From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 01:23:28 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:23:28 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <20060930221348.GA7724-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609301642.35010.marc@lijour.net> <20060930221348.GA7724@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> On 9/30/06, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 04:42:34PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Any volunteer? > > Count me in. As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. How > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I can't > think on empty stomach). Me too. Just lemme know when and where. Prefer late weekday evenings (for travel time) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 01:55:10 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:55:10 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <20060930221348.GA7724@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609302155.11127.marc@lijour.net> On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > Any volunteer? > > > > Count me in. ?As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. ?How > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. ?Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I can't > > think on empty stomach). > > Me too. ?Just lemme know when and where. ?Prefer late weekday evenings > (for travel time) Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 02:08:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:08:50 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: On 9/29/06, Simon wrote: > I worry about alienating myself if I say something about "free as in > freedom", but I think the most sane sounding thing to say, if you want > to clarify, is that you meant free to use, modify, and share, not free > of cost. This morning, Chris De Bona pointed out the important point that "free of charge" is, in fact, one of the vital aspects. One of the relevant freedoms is "freedom from licensing fees," and whenever people run up the flagpole the "free as in speech, not free as in beer," they *are* contradicting that. There are a multiplicity of freedoms involved, and one of them *is* freedom from people sending you licensing bills. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 03:19:01 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:19:01 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609302155.11127.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <20060930221348.GA7724@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> <200609302155.11127.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609302019u6a8dd480pa142f12fcc1e44ce@mail.gmail.com> On 9/30/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > Any volunteer? > > > > > > Count me in. As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. How > > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I can't > > > think on empty stomach). > > > > Me too. Just lemme know when and where. Prefer late weekday evenings > > (for travel time) > > Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? > What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? Rrrg. May Murphy die a long a painful death. On the other hand, you have different fingers. (lol) Seriously though, Dr. Peter Salus is speaking at HLUG (will forward details to TLUG) this coming Wednesday. Friday->Monday is out for me pretty much every week. 6:30p++ would be perfect in the western GTA. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 03:22:42 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:22:42 -0400 Subject: Fwd: HLUG: October Meeting with Dr. Peter Salus In-Reply-To: <01e801c6d841$12d216f0$65c8a8c0@biglaptop> References: <01e801c6d841$12d216f0$65c8a8c0@biglaptop> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609302022i68841d03peae80a4e3d4c075c@mail.gmail.com> Pretty much says it all. ;-) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jennifer Harwood Date: Sep 14, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: HLUG: October Meeting with Dr. Peter Salus To: HLUG Announcements Hello everyone! Since we are to once again have the pleasure and honour of Dr. Peter Salus speaking to our group, I wanted to give you lots of notice about the meeting so you can mark your calendars now! Our next meeting is Wednesday, October 4, 7pm at McMaster University, Hamilton Hall Room 217. Dr. Salus, famed historian of UNIX and the Internet, will speak about "Why you should never run a user group: War Stories for the humour-deprived.". I can safely say that Peter enjoys talking as much as Ron does : ) , so it should be an informative and entertaining evening. I hope you can all make it! Cheers, Jennifer -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 04:09:02 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 00:09:02 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609302019u6a8dd480pa142f12fcc1e44ce-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609302155.11127.marc@lijour.net> <99a6c38f0609302019u6a8dd480pa142f12fcc1e44ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610010009.02877.marc@lijour.net> On September 30, 2006 11:19 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 9/30/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > > Any volunteer? > > > > > > > > Count me in. As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. How > > > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I > > > > can't think on empty stomach). > > > > > > Me too. Just lemme know when and where. Prefer late weekday evenings > > > (for travel time) > > > > Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? > > What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? > > Rrrg. May Murphy die a long a painful death. > > On the other hand, you have different fingers. > > (lol) > > Seriously though, Dr. Peter Salus is speaking at HLUG (will forward > details to TLUG) this coming Wednesday. Friday->Monday is out for me > pretty much every week. > > 6:30p++ would be perfect in the western GTA. ;-) I added you and Simon to my google calendar, you should be able to see my free/busy list. I also requested view rights to yours (you should have received an email from google). William if you have a gmail account please contact me with your email address. The same goes for everyone. Google calendars can be superimposed and we can hopefully visualize a common free spot. Thanks to google :) Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 15:18:55 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:18:55 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610010009.02877.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609302155.11127.marc@lijour.net> <99a6c38f0609302019u6a8dd480pa142f12fcc1e44ce@mail.gmail.com> <200610010009.02877.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610010818g17f86162s759a00cbb8bba0c@mail.gmail.com> On 10/1/06, Marc Lijour wrote: [...] > I added you and Simon to my google calendar, you should be able to see my > free/busy list. I also requested view rights to yours (you should have > received an email from google). > William if you have a gmail account please contact me with your email address. > The same goes for everyone. > > Google calendars can be superimposed and we can hopefully visualize a common > free spot. Thanks to google :) Good idea Marc. Anyone else who wants to know what I'm upto, just fire me an email for access to my events calendar. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 16:34:42 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:34:42 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609302155.11127.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F@sciguy.vex.net> On 30 Sep 2006 at 21:55, Marc Lijour wrote: > On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > Any volunteer? > > > > > > Count me in. ??As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. ??How > > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. ??Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I can't > > > think on empty stomach). > > > > Me too. ??Just lemme know when and where. ??Prefer late weekday evenings > > (for travel time) > > Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? > What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? Can't do it. Teaching night school on Mondays and Wednesdays. Thursdays are out due to choir practice. That leaves Tuesday and Friday (I favour Friday, since there is the least probability of having holes in my schedule). If other people are ruling out weekends due to transportation problems, I can voluteer to pick them up, especially if they live west of, say, the DVP. I live in Oakville, so I am volunteering to cover a wide territory for someone. East of the DVP (ie, Scarbourough and beyond) I don't feel reasonably to be in a position to pick them up. I am also assuming that this is a one-time meeting. If we re-consider weekends, I would have a lot more time on my hands. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 16:56:54 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:56:54 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> <200609302155.11127.marc@lijour.net> <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610010956v19c30140l752bf083c0acdeb4@mail.gmail.com> On 10/1/06, Paul King wrote: [...] > Can't do it. Teaching night school on Mondays and Wednesdays. Thursdays are out > due to choir practice. That leaves Tuesday and Friday (I favour Friday, since > there is the least probability of having holes in my schedule). > > If other people are ruling out weekends due to transportation problems, I can > voluteer to pick them up, especially if they live west of, say, the DVP. I live > in Oakville, so I am volunteering to cover a wide territory for someone. East > of the DVP (ie, Scarbourough and beyond) I don't feel reasonably to be in a > position to pick them up. I am also assuming that this is a one-time meeting. > > If we re-consider weekends, I would have a lot more time on my hands. I can re-consider every other weekend, but (now that I have 2 day weekends again every week - for the first time in years) I'd like to avoid them wherever I can. This coming weekend is out, next I could do. I work in Mississauga, live in Brampton, and spend a bunch of time in Hamilton, Burlington, and Oakville - with periodic trips into Toronto for community meetings and events. Since I don't drive, I'd be willing to take you up on your offer for transportation. That would be might helpful. When a date and time is arranged for this meeting, I'll contact you off-list to see if I can arrange a ride with you. Based on the combined calendars between Marc and myself, and given your above comments, would this coming Tuesday work? Say at Linuxcaffe? -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 17:34:28 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 13:34:28 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609301823r7a69936do234fc18f86671d9e@mail.gmail.com> <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <200610011334.29182.marc@lijour.net> On October 1, 2006 12:34 pm, Paul King wrote: > On 30 Sep 2006 at 21:55, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > > Any volunteer? > > > > > > > > Count me in. ?As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. ?How > > > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. ?Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I > > > > can't think on empty stomach). > > > > > > Me too. ?Just lemme know when and where. ?Prefer late weekday evenings > > > (for travel time) > > > > Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? > > What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? > > Can't do it. Teaching night school on Mondays and Wednesdays. Thursdays are > out due to choir practice. That leaves Tuesday and Friday (I favour Friday, > since there is the least probability of having holes in my schedule). I am usually busy on Friday night. That leaves Tuesday or the week-end. Are you all available one of the coming Tuesdays? If not, then we could arrange a week-end and as I live east of DVP I could cover the eastern territory :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 19:43:27 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 15:43:27 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609291754.24842.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 9/29/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > is there a small group of Linux users from Ontario who would like to gather > around some Torontonian food to discuss Open Source PR and advocacy? > In the next couple of weeks it would be great. In perfect coincidence, I have been wanting to round up a meeting between some of our more experienced, articulate geeks, and a group of local teachers, representatives of the local alternative school and the Canadian Teachers Federation. The focus of this little get together will be Nigeria, and a project called Operation Overseas. We want to assemble a bundle of software and hardware to address a pressing need. In the process, the various benefits of Open Source will be revealed, as well as introduction to the thriving OSS community. If anyone feels they may have something to contribute, come on down ! Date; murky ! We'll just have to pick something that has the least conflicts and run with it, making notes for those who could not attend. links, linuxcaffe calendar = http://linuxcaffe.ca/event related project page/ blog entry = http://linuxcaffe.ca/project/indi/nigeria Operation Overseas = http://www.ctf-fce.ca/en/default.htm?main.htm CTF = http://www.ctf-fce.ca/en/default.htm?main.htm for this sort of thing we (linuxcaffe) can be very flexible. Pick a date and time, and we'll see if the school-types will join us. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 19:57:14 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 15:57:14 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> On October 1, 2006 03:43 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > On 9/29/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi > > > > is there a small group of Linux users from Ontario who would like to > > gather around some Torontonian food to discuss Open Source PR and > > advocacy? In the next couple of weeks it would be great. > > In perfect coincidence, I have been wanting to round up a meeting > between some of our more experienced, articulate geeks, and a group of > local teachers, representatives of the local alternative school and > the Canadian Teachers Federation. The focus of this little get > together will be Nigeria, and a project called Operation Overseas. We > want to assemble a bundle of software and hardware to address a > pressing need. In the process, the various benefits of Open Source > will be revealed, as well as introduction to the thriving OSS > community. If anyone feels they may have something to contribute, come > on down ! > > Date; murky ! We'll just have to pick something that has the least > conflicts and run with it, making notes for those who could not > attend. > > links, > linuxcaffe calendar = http://linuxcaffe.ca/event > related project page/ blog entry = > http://linuxcaffe.ca/project/indi/nigeria Operation Overseas = > http://www.ctf-fce.ca/en/default.htm?main.htm CTF = > http://www.ctf-fce.ca/en/default.htm?main.htm > > for this sort of thing we (linuxcaffe) can be very flexible. Pick a > date and time, and we'll see if the school-types will join us. > > djp Excellent. Thank you for the offers. It is a perfect match. Is the Tuesday a good day for everybody? Please add your name at the bottom and/or send me privately a gmail account to add you to my calendar. - Marc - djp? (except Oct. 10 & 17 if I believe http://linuxcaffe.ca/event) - Scott (thank you for sharing your calendar) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 20:57:26 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 16:57:26 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20061001205726.GA6320@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Oct 01, 2006 at 03:43:27PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > In perfect coincidence, I have been wanting to round up a meeting > between some of our more experienced, articulate geeks, and a group of > local teachers, representatives of the local alternative school and > the Canadian Teachers Federation. Are we sure we want to target teachers? Because you'll be talking to deaf ears. We need to target those who control the purse string, ie. those who signs paychecks of teachers, IT staffs, etc. > The focus of this little get > together will be Nigeria, and a project called Operation Overseas. We > want to assemble a bundle of software and hardware to address a > pressing need. In the process, the various benefits of Open Source > will be revealed, as well as introduction to the thriving OSS > community. If anyone feels they may have something to contribute, come > on down ! We definitely need to get together to talk about what we're selling and what we think Ministry wants to buy. Things like "benefit of OSS"... even I don't know what that means. Nothing is free. As for time... I can swing by any GTA location, after rush hour, say after 7pm. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 21:12:10 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 17:12:10 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610011557.14263.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200610011712.11197.marc@lijour.net> Voting for meeting a Tuesday night, at 7pm at LinuxCaffe. > Please add your name at the bottom and/or send me privately a gmail account > to add you to my calendar. - Marc - djp? (except Oct. 10 & 17(!) if I believe http://linuxcaffe.ca/event) - Scott (thank you for sharing your calendar) - William Park -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 1 22:54:05 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:54:05 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610011334.29182.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <451FB5E2.15215.808AB9F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <45200ECD.28913.9648CD2@sciguy.vex.net> This particular Tuesday (day after tomorrow) I have the day off. So, I guess Tuesdays it is. Paul King On 1 Oct 2006 at 13:34, Marc Lijour wrote: > On October 1, 2006 12:34 pm, Paul King wrote: > > On 30 Sep 2006 at 21:55, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > On September 30, 2006 09:23 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > > > Any volunteer? > > > > > > > > > > Count me in. ??As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. ??How > > > > > about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. ??Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I > > > > > can't think on empty stomach). > > > > > > > > Me too. ??Just lemme know when and where. ??Prefer late weekday evenings > > > > (for travel time) > > > > > > Good. What about at Linuxcaffe next Wednesday? > > > What would be a good time? 6:00pm or later? > > > > Can't do it. Teaching night school on Mondays and Wednesdays. Thursdays are > > out due to choir practice. That leaves Tuesday and Friday (I favour Friday, > > since there is the least probability of having holes in my schedule). > > I am usually busy on Friday night. That leaves Tuesday or the week-end. > Are you all available one of the coming Tuesdays? > If not, then we could arrange a week-end and as I live east of DVP I could > cover the eastern territory :) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 1.1784 (20060929) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 00:48:49 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:48:49 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610011712.11197.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> <200610011712.11197.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200610012048.50187.marc@lijour.net> On October 1, 2006 05:12 pm, Marc Lijour wrote: > Voting for meeting a Tuesday night, at 7pm at LinuxCaffe. > > > Please add your name at the bottom and/or send me privately a gmail > > account to add you to my calendar. - Marc - djp? (except Oct. 10 & 17(!) if I believe http://linuxcaffe.ca/event) - Scott (thank you for sharing your calendar) - William Park - Paul King Are you all fine for next Tuesday at 7pm or is it too short...? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 04:34:40 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 00:34:40 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609301642.35010.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609301642.35010.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10610012134w68594988r591897971b4ec51b@mail.gmail.com> On 9/30/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > I invite you and the interested TLUGers to gather around a table to discuss > the following points. > > 1. what can FOSS and Linux can offer to the Ontario schools they don't already > have > 2. TCO > 3. linux advocacy > 4. existing educational projects involving FOSS you know about > 5. FOSS evaluation (openBRR and similar) Hi Marc... This might be of interest... A blog focused on the use of free software in schools: http://stevehargadon.blogspot.com/ I just listened to a interview with John Selmys - one of the organizers of the upcoming FSOSS symposium at Seneca - and the discussion is about the use of free software in the Toronto school district: http://educationbridges.net/k12opensource/wp-content/uploads/johnselmys.ogg There a few more podcasts as well that look interesting... Interviews with Maddog and other Linux luminaries. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 04:56:55 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 00:56:55 -0400 Subject: freenas and rsync Message-ID: http://www.freenas.org/ http://www.serverelements.com/index.php http://www.openfiler.com/ i have been using freenas for a few days now, and will try openfiler and naslite in the next few days. i have put 60GB of files on the primary freenas , and maintain a backup on a secondary freenas. i setup rsync to run once a day. so i only have to power up the secondary freenas 10 minutes prior to the scheduled backup (midnight) (no sense in having 2 duplicate NAS servers running) BSD is quick in booting up! freenas seems to take about 60 to 75 seconds to loadup. rsync is amazing. I only wish I started using rsync like 5 years ago. did it exist 5 years ago? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 05:59:41 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:59:41 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610011712.11197.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> <200610011712.11197.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4520AACD.4020203@telly.org> Marc Lijour wrote: > Voting for meeting a Tuesday night, at 7pm at LinuxCaffe. > I'm interested, but pretty well all the Tuesdays in the month are now spoken for by various user groups: 1st -westTLUG 2nd- TLUG 3rd - Drupal/Python/Pegasoft 4th - NewTLUG I'm interested, but Tuesdays I'm usually already somewhere. Linuxcaffe is the perfect venue. My concern regards having a specific goal in mind. If the first goal is teachers that's fine. (And while teachers don't control school board spending, they do have some say on issues such as educating their boards and computer labs.) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 14:35:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:35:17 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20061002143517.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 01:20:27PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. > > If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and any personal information I chose to leave on it. Did you encrypt the filesystem? If not, then they have no need to blow away the root partition. Heck they could just take the disk out, plug it into a PC with a 2.5 to 3.5" adapter cable and mount the filesystem and grab your files. Same for windows. If it's not encrypted, it is free for the taking. Having a seperate partition for /home would actually make it easier to run an encrypted filesystem for your personal files, which on a laptop might be a good idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 16:08:58 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20061002143517.GH13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <20061002143517.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Did you encrypt the filesystem? If not, then they have no need to blow > away the root partition. Heck they could just take the disk out, plug > it into a PC with a 2.5 to 3.5" adapter cable and mount the filesystem > and grab your files. Same for windows. If it's not encrypted, it is > free for the taking. Very true. This part of the thread has been about stopping baddies getting into the filesystem. I'm going to mention the flipside - the danger that the legitimate users may loose access to the filesystem if it is encrypted. Given how often a lot of users forget their passwords I urge users to consider the ramificiations before encrypting filesystems. Remember a PKI passphrase can't be reset 'blind' the way root can reset a normal user account password on a Unix system (ie, without knowledge of the original password). I don't know if any of you have seen the look on a user's face when you tell them there is no feasible way to "brute force" the PKI passphrase after the user has forgotten it - I have[1]. If you do want to use PKI to encrypt important data think long and hard before writing down the passphrase. Other things to consider about encrypted filesystems: 1. Backups. Do you keep them encrypted or not. There are advantages both ways. 2. Legitimate 3rd party access. If this is a work system it may be necessary for a number of people to gain access. Will the passphrase be shared? This could be true of a home system too. Just some things to think about. [1] This was a client system and as I recall and unencrypted backup of the data was recovered. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 17:23:58 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [FreecycleTO] OFFER: 2 post 42U Rack (cabinet) Message-ID: <20061002172358.46274.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Freecycle mailing list is for people who have interesting equipment that still has useful life in it but is surplus to the current owner's needs. Here is a bit that may be of interest to GTALug folks. E-mail Andrew English if interested. --- Andrew English wrote: > To: > From: "Andrew English" > > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:19:21 -0400 > Subject: [FreecycleTO] OFFER: 2 post 42U Rack > (cabinet) > > I have a black 2 post 42U cabinet with panels and > roof that has dual > fans. It also has a power bar strip inside. > > > > Movers are coming tomorrow; Tuesday. If it's not > picked up then it will > end up in dumpster. :-( > > > > Andrew > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 19:41:03 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:41:03 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <4520AACD.4020203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> <200610011712.11197.marc@lijour.net> <4520AACD.4020203@telly.org> Message-ID: On 02/10/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > Voting for meeting a Tuesday night, at 7pm at LinuxCaffe. > > I'm interested, but Tuesdays I'm usually already somewhere. Linuxcaffe > is the perfect venue. Thanks Evan, we'll miss you ! ;-) Tomorrow, (unless more people start putting the brakes on) we'll gather at linuxcaffe, round 7pm, to discuss general applications for FLOSS in our education system, how it should be introduced, where the greatest benefits would be, where the greatest barriers to adoption exist. how it might be implemented and supported. Well keep minutes and draft a position paper afterwards. We will also take the opportunity to focus on an initiative to assemble, configure and deliver a turn-key computer network to a school administration in Nigeria. As a bonus, the Toronto Linux Meetup group meets here on the first Tuesday, and if we're lucky, we can harness some of their creativity and enthusiasm towards the above mentioned projects. see you there, djp PS, if you know anyone who you think should attend, especially school system reps, please do it ! Also, if anyone has presentation content, give me a heads up so that we can prep the tech. k? thanks, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 20:50:38 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:50:38 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <451EE0EA.20805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:26:02 -0400 James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Well, he's the sort who thinks it OK to pirate software. Just playin' Devil's Advocate here, but a lot of people might think that even loading the necessary code to play and decrypt DVD's on Linux is as 'unethical' as pirating software, since you do not have the DVD's permission to do so. I don't think the line can be drawn as clearly as people might think when it comes to F/OSS. AFAICT, it seems to be very much a clash between two completely different philosophies regarding the definition of 'ownership'. I also don't think we've quite worked out the new meaning of 'property' in a world where such concepts are not quite as cut and dried as they used to be. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 21:28:52 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:28:52 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20061002143517.GH13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <20061002143517.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990610021428v7995ffefqc2d401153adc88da@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 01:20:27PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > > I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. > > > > If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and any personal information I chose to leave on it. > > Did you encrypt the filesystem? If not, then they have no need to blow > away the root partition. Heck they could just take the disk out, plug > it into a PC with a 2.5 to 3.5" adapter cable and mount the filesystem > and grab your files. Same for windows. If it's not encrypted, it is > free for the taking. > > Having a seperate partition for /home would actually make it easier to > run an encrypted filesystem for your personal files, which on a laptop > might be a good idea. I've been using EncFS on /home for some time now, and it's been wonderful to work with. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 21:42:21 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:21 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:26:02 -0400 > James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> Well, he's the sort who thinks it OK to pirate software. > > Just playin' Devil's Advocate here, but a lot of people might think that even > loading the necessary code to play and decrypt DVD's on Linux is as 'unethical' > as pirating software, since you do not have the DVD's permission to do so. > > I don't think the line can be drawn as clearly as people might think when it > comes to F/OSS. AFAICT, it seems to be very much a clash between two completely > different philosophies regarding the definition of 'ownership'. I also don't > think we've quite worked out the new meaning of 'property' in a world where such > concepts are not quite as cut and dried as they used to be. > IANAL... but ethical/moral and legal are in this case mutually exclusive. It is illegal in *some* places to use libdvdcss2 or whatever package you use, but it is not unethical. Not to imply that it is ethical to circumvent copy protection, only that ethics don't really enter into it here. As Devil's Advocates, unless we consider breaking unjust laws unethical (a stretch?) the argument fails. If however, our hypothetical user is a straight arrow who acts on ethical principals derived from law--in that case as Devil's Advocate, the point is made, but only then. Without skepticism and the ability to allow one's personal ethics to supersede law, I wonder how much journalism from the last century (for example), would have gone unwritten or unpublished? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 23:15:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:15:49 -0400 Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting In-Reply-To: References: <451AA9FF.80408@telly.org> <200609281329.55390.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Or you can just make a shortcut for gksudo gnome-terminal or whatever.. I believe Ubuntu ships with such a shortcut, only hidden. If you edit your apps menu (right click on the menu bar/button), you can enable it. On 9/29/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > If you want to be able to log in as root, just give root a > password. Even without that, you can open a root terminal window: > "sudo xterm" or "sudo rxvt" or whatever. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 23:17:39 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:17:39 -0400 Subject: freenas In-Reply-To: <573409e0609290156q5cf531adnd89d7758f9ee5f7b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <573409e0609290156q5cf531adnd89d7758f9ee5f7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Seems fine to me, but I didn't bother to download the iso completely, just checked that I could start the download. On 9/29/06, Rex Huang wrote: > > I have problem to access this server. I am from China, but i also tried > via a corp gateway in U.S.. > > Any one sucess downloading it? > > > rex > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 2 23:46:25 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:46:25 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: I would have thought that removing the other freedoms is a prerequisite to forcing people to pay licensing fees. I agree that fees aren't a nice thing, but it is completely legal to sell GPL licensed software that you don't own the copyright for, as long as you license it under the GPL. You could almost say it's pointless to do this, but RHEL is a prominent example of it actually being done, and CentOS is an example of why it may be pointless (I know, the money buys support too). So, I could correct myself to "not just free of cost" instead of not free of cost, but one must recognize that freedom of speech and being cost free are two different things, and it's valid to refer to one by itself. Then again, I also support freedom from licensing fees, I don't much like them either. On another note, some IT establishments seem to enjoy paying fees if it buys them assurance of 24/7 support. However, said establishments probably also enjoy paying various other fees as well, that's my impression. And by enjoy, I mean not feeling nauseous about spending tens of thousands of dollars on individual software licenses. On 9/30/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 9/29/06, Simon wrote: > > I worry about alienating myself if I say something about "free as in > > freedom", but I think the most sane sounding thing to say, if you want > > to clarify, is that you meant free to use, modify, and share, not free > > of cost. > > This morning, Chris De Bona pointed out the important point that "free > of charge" is, in fact, one of the vital aspects. > > One of the relevant freedoms is "freedom from licensing fees," and > whenever people run up the flagpole the "free as in speech, not free > as in beer," they *are* contradicting that. > > There are a multiplicity of freedoms involved, and one of them *is* > freedom from people sending you licensing bills. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 00:25:13 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 20:25:13 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061002202513.3c90e0a8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:21 -0400 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > IANAL... but ethical/moral and legal are in this case mutually > exclusive. It is illegal in *some* places to use libdvdcss2 or whatever > package you use, but it is not unethical. Not to imply that it is > ethical to circumvent copy protection, only that ethics don't really > enter into it here. ...a certain Richard Stallman might disagree with you... ;) That was the direction I was coming from, or intended to (I'm even less a lawyer than you, to be sure, so I'm probably not framing this right). Neither our sense of 'ethics' or 'law' have yet caught up to the technology that we possess, so that one's sense of right and wrong never seems to quite cover all the angles. Some people might say that to use *any* closed or restricted software, whether it was intended to be free or not, is unethical because, as Stallman put it: "A non-free program is a predatory social system that keeps people in a state of domination and division, and uses the spoils to dominate more. It may seem like a profitable option to become one of the emperor's lieutenants, but ultimately the ethical thing to do is to resist the system and put an end to it." From my point of view at least, the software which plays DVD's was never intended to be 'free' (ie. open), and so to use it is to falter, ethically speaking, at least as far as Stallman would define it, no? I know, Stallman would say you shouldn't be buying the DVD in the first place or something crazy like that :P Personally, *I* don't believe that using a pirated copy of Photoshop is anywhere near the same as using libdvdcss (ethically speaking), but again, would everyone see it the same way? I don't know. I've run into people who won't load M$ fonts on their Linux box because, technically, although freely available, the licensing is restricted and therefore 'bad', and they consider it unethical to use them. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 01:56:05 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:56:05 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <20061002202513.3c90e0a8-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061002202513.3c90e0a8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4521C335.8010107@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:21 -0400 > Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> IANAL... but ethical/moral and legal are in this case mutually >> exclusive. It is illegal in *some* places to use libdvdcss2 or whatever >> package you use, but it is not unethical. Not to imply that it is >> ethical to circumvent copy protection, only that ethics don't really >> enter into it here. > > ...a certain Richard Stallman might disagree with you... ;) > > That was the direction I was coming from, or intended to (I'm even less a lawyer > than you, to be sure, so I'm probably not framing this right). Neither our > sense of 'ethics' or 'law' have yet caught up to the technology that we > possess, so that one's sense of right and wrong never seems to quite cover all > the angles. I agree with you 100% there. It's too bad that as new cases come up, catching up means framing said new technology in terms of an older one where law and ethics are concerned. It seems that from an ethical point of view, and in (admittedly) overly general terms, law or ethics are applied and interpreted in a utilitarian fashion with business interests always at the fore, whereas Stallman's ethics seem based more around duty and a priori morality. The former is much easier to work with in a court because it is easily quantifiable, in terms of legal precedents, and simple dollars and cents cost/benefit analyses. The latter is inherently vague and subjective where the courts are concerned (IMO) and the benefits are much more intangible on the whole. The GPL is a brilliant piece of work for the simple fact that it bridges Stallman's ethics/ideology with our modern legal system. From an ethical point of view (utilitarian), the GPL is a pragmatically necessary thing, used to "resist the system." Paradoxically, it is also something that in Stallman's ethical world (as I understand it) should not exist, in that there should be no need for a such a descriptive set of ethics to begin with if only people were to follow the seemingly (Stallman) self-evident truth that restricting software is wrong. whew! > Some people might say that to use *any* closed or restricted software, whether > it was intended to be free or not, is unethical because, as Stallman put it: > > "A non-free program is a predatory social system that keeps people in a state > of domination and division, and uses the spoils to dominate more. It may seem > like a profitable option to become one of the emperor's lieutenants, but > ultimately the ethical thing to do is to resist the system and put an end to > it." > > From my point of view at least, the software which plays DVD's was never > intended to be 'free' (ie. open), and so to use it is to falter, ethically > speaking, at least as far as Stallman would define it, no? I know, Stallman > would say you shouldn't be buying the DVD in the first place or something crazy > like that :P Hmm you make an interesting point. I think that in the particular case of libdvdcss Stallman would have to agree (according to the statement above), that to use the software, since it is licensed under the GPL would be very much and ethical action. I too agree then that ethics *do* come into play given the above. In the same sense that I describe the practicality of the GPL above that is. To use libdvdcss is to steadfastly adhere to the principle Stallman outlines of resisting the system that restricts users' use of software. Taken to the extreme, you do point out that Stallman might, as a consequence of his stance, have to end up living under a rock for his principles, though in not so many words of course ;) He'd do it too I bet! > Personally, *I* don't believe that using a pirated copy of Photoshop is anywhere > near the same as using libdvdcss (ethically speaking), but again, would > everyone see it the same way? I don't know. I've run into people who won't load > M$ fonts on their Linux box because, technically, although freely available, the > licensing is restricted and therefore 'bad', and they consider it unethical to > use them. No one sees it the same way of course. If we did, we'd likely spend more time debating the relative merits of said fonts than just doing whatever work we need to do in the first place, with or without them. It might make things more just in a very long term, but as to the tangible benefits of such "extreme" cases, they are not worth it *to me*. I do not dispute the value of such ideologues as those who refuse to taint their system, as we absolutely need them to advocate freedom etc. for software, over and above simply using GPL for new project, but look at what happened (briefly?) to the kororaa project when such an extreme position was taken earlier this summer: http://kororaa.org/index.php?entry=entry060512-160752 I just want to watch my movies and play my games with a minimum amount of fuss. From a very practical point of view, switching to GNU/Linux was enough of a switch in ideological and ethical terms that I don't want to have to worry about smaller issues like font licenses or binary drivers causing kernel taint. Which is more ethical: switching new users over to GNU/Linux, with said large gain in ethical and ideological awareness across as large a body of people as possible (hypothesized on my part based on those I've converted); or spending all my time ensuring my actions are in accordance with an extremely rigid set of ethics that prevent me from spending time converting potential users? No easy answer there, though I obviously opt for the first. In Stallman's world, I ought not to have to even entertain either possibility though... Much fun reading and writing this, thanks :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 03:50:02 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 23:50:02 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <452187BD.5020606-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <452187BD.5020606@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061003035002.GA20144@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 05:42:21PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Without skepticism and the ability to allow one's personal ethics to > supersede law, I wonder how much journalism from the last century (for > example), would have gone unwritten or unpublished? Well, all of the journalism written by people to whom writing is simply a job would be unaffected (they tend to write about issues that are not ethically significant to the writer), all of the spin writing too (those writers generally *do* worry about not superceding law since they are definitely not worrying about any sort of ethics). The vast majority, espeially that part covered by Sturgeon's Law, would be unaffected. The small amount that would be affected, however, would be the most important and most significant pieces of journalism of the period. The important question is not "how much?" but "which?". -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 03:08:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:08:02 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610012048.50187.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610011557.14263.marc@lijour.net> <200610011712.11197.marc@lijour.net> <200610012048.50187.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4521D412.2000506@telly.org> Just a thought. While in-person meetings are usually preferred, perhaps some virtual ones first may be, easier to schedule and attend, while offering a record/log that can be read by those who couldn't make it. IRC might be helpful to those for whom round trip travel time would be longer than the meeting itself, and it may make a weekend conference practical. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 04:07:49 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 00:07:49 -0400 Subject: Crontab In-Reply-To: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <20061003000749.1f474cbe.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:21:47 -0400 (EDT) "Jason Carson" wrote: > Greetings, > > How do I run a program every half hour? > > Thanks > > Jay Jay, I did the following after I read the man page and I modified crontab. ... # day day # of of # minute hour mon mon week command ########################################################### 30 03 * * * /bin/do/something 50 10 * * tue /bin/do/somethingelse I have better things to do with my time than memorize this stuff. The #'s are comments, and now I can see clearly what each column does. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 04:55:42 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 00:55:42 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <4521D412.2000506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610012048.50187.marc@lijour.net> <4521D412.2000506@telly.org> Message-ID: <200610030055.43406.marc@lijour.net> On October 2, 2006 11:08 pm, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Just a thought. > > While in-person meetings are usually preferred, perhaps some virtual > ones first may be, easier to schedule and attend, while offering a > record/log that can be read by those who couldn't make it. > > IRC might be helpful to those for whom round trip travel time would be > longer than the meeting itself, and it may make a weekend conference > practical. > > - Evan Good suggestion Evan. Do you have a suggestion for a particular IRC channel? I also think that a first meeting face to face is a good thing. We will survey everybody's interests to define precisely what we want to address. In the future on-line communication will serve us well, I am sure. And we want you in ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 06:50:07 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 02:50:07 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200610030055.43406.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610012048.50187.marc@lijour.net> <4521D412.2000506@telly.org> <200610030055.43406.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4522081F.2070305@telly.org> Marc Lijour wrote: > Good suggestion Evan. Do you have a suggestion for a particular IRC channel? > How hard is it to create one? I'll ask around. The worst case scenario is that we hold it in the existing TLUG area (#toronto-lug at freenet) -- heaven knows it's not exactly high traffic most of the time. > I also think that a first meeting face to face is a good thing. We will survey everybody's interests to define precisely what we want to address. > OK. Sorry I can't be there; I have a board meeting of my local neighbourhood association (www.villageatyork.ca). This has been planned for some time, and we're doing prep for an all-candidates meeting (which I'm moderating) in prep for the coming municipal election. Don't forget to vote, and know your trustee candidates' stances on technology diversity. BTW, at your meeting don't forget to try David's hot chocolate. > In the future on-line communication will serve us well, I am sure. And we want you in ;-) > I'll be there if I can. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 07:13:01 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 03:13:01 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <4522081F.2070305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200610030055.43406.marc@lijour.net> <4522081F.2070305@telly.org> Message-ID: <200610030313.02737.marc@lijour.net> On October 3, 2006 02:50 am, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > Good suggestion Evan. Do you have a suggestion for a particular IRC > > channel? > > How hard is it to create one? I'll ask around. The worst case scenario > is that we hold it in the existing TLUG area (#toronto-lug at freenet) > -- heaven knows it's not exactly high traffic most of the time. > > > I also think that a first meeting face to face is a good thing. We will > > survey everybody's interests to define precisely what we want to address. > > OK. Sorry I can't be there; I have a board meeting of my local > neighbourhood association (www.villageatyork.ca). This has been planned > for some time, and we're doing prep for an all-candidates meeting (which > I'm moderating) in prep for the coming municipal election. > > Don't forget to vote, and know your trustee candidates' stances on > technology diversity. > > BTW, at your meeting don't forget to try David's hot chocolate. All good tips :-) > > In the future on-line communication will serve us well, I am sure. And we > > want you in ;-) > > I'll be there if I can. It will be our pleasure. In any case we will keep you posted. Good night! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 12:14:46 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:14:46 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <4521C335.8010107-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> <20061002165038.1ff9b9d4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061002202513.3c90e0a8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4521C335.8010107@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 02/10/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Which is more ethical: switching new users over to GNU/Linux, with said > large gain in ethical and ideological awareness across as large a body > of people as possible (hypothesized on my part based on those I've > converted); or spending all my time ensuring my actions are in > accordance with an extremely rigid set of ethics that prevent me from > spending time converting potential users? No easy answer there, though I > obviously opt for the first. IMHO, if we held to the letter of RMSs noble cause, OSS adoption would stop dead in its tracks. The unwashed and uninitiated masses really couldn't give a crap about this stuff, as they have been happily using pirated software for as long as they can remember. It is only after a user has really experienced the joys of Free Software, that they slowly come around to look at the philosophy behind it. If they can't play a DVD nor .mp3, if their video card Just Won't Work, then the whole issue is MOOT ! They would turn their backs in a flash, and never come back. We must (again, IMHO) continue to make linux easy, fun, and Just Work. Deep thinkers (like us ;-) will ruminate on the fiberous issues, and quietly fix them. Eventually the two positions will merge without conflict. Untill then, We can continue to respect RMSs position, while breaking any rule that allows another convert. djp (everybody sing) Free the Software, Free the software When we have enough Software, and Open driver support, and recognized Free codecs, Then we will all be Free LaLaLa ! etc -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 14:16:58 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:16:58 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education Message-ID: <20061003141658.4F63D7537D@sarg.ryerson.ca> Someone may have already mentioned this, but I wasn't sure, and it's pretty relevant to this thread: The October-November 2006 issue of Innovate (www.innovateonline.info) focuses on the potential of open source software and related trends to transform educational practice. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 15:07:20 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: legacy gd.i386 Message-ID: <30994.72.38.22.170.1159888040.squirrel@72.38.22.170> I need to install a version of gd.i386 that is older than version 2.0 does anyone on this list know where I might find that? Thanks, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 16:13:51 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:13:51 -0400 Subject: legacy gd.i386 In-Reply-To: <30994.72.38.22.170.1159888040.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <30994.72.38.22.170.1159888040.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <200610031213.51887.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 03 October 2006 11:07, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I need to install a version of gd.i386 that is older than version 2.0 does > anyone on this list know where I might find that? Debian is a great place to find crufty old versions of things. At http://packages.debian.org/stable/oldlibs/libgd-dev you'll find a link to source code for version 1.8.4. You can search the various releases from http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages If you're after rpm rather then .deb or source try http://rpmfind.net/ as well. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 16:46:10 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:46:10 -0400 Subject: legacy gd.i386 In-Reply-To: <200610031213.51887.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <30994.72.38.22.170.1159888040.squirrel@72.38.22.170> <200610031213.51887.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <452293D2.8070202@utoronto.ca> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 03 October 2006 11:07, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> I need to install a version of gd.i386 that is older than version 2.0 does >> anyone on this list know where I might find that? > > Debian is a great place to find crufty old versions of things. At > http://packages.debian.org/stable/oldlibs/libgd-dev you'll find a link to > source code for version 1.8.4. > > You can search the various releases from > http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages > > If you're after rpm rather then .deb or source try http://rpmfind.net/ as > well. I like rpm.pbone.net -- take a look at this page and the last page: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&limit=4&srodzaj=3&dl=40&search=gd Says on the last page that someone has gd-1.22 RedHat 6.X. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 16:49:52 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:49:52 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <20061003141658.4F63D7537D-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061003141658.4F63D7537D@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 03/10/06, Dave Mason wrote: > Someone may have already mentioned this, but I wasn't sure, I don't think it /has/ been mentioned. and it's > pretty relevant to this thread: I'll say ! Thanks ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 20:08:22 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:08:22 +0100 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: <4522C336.6000906@quadratic.net> My experience has been that often "business people" think that if they are not paying for it , it's not professional. It's about having a throat to choke. They hire me cause they want to be able to ring my neck when it doesn't work. They want me to use redhat so that when it breaks I can ring redhat's neck. They WANT Redhat. They need to know when I can't fix it I can call the monther-ship. Funny thing is , redhat support is worse than useless. Which is typical for most first "support groups" which is a modern "broken thing" http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4101280286098310645&q=broken Bah, David Simon wrote: > I would have thought that removing the other freedoms is a > prerequisite to forcing people to pay licensing fees. I agree that > fees aren't a nice thing, but it is completely legal to sell GPL > licensed software that you don't own the copyright for, as long as you > license it under the GPL. You could almost say it's pointless to do > this, but RHEL is a prominent example of it actually being done, and > CentOS is an example of why it may be pointless (I know, the money > buys support too). So, I could correct myself to "not just free of > cost" instead of not free of cost, but one must recognize that freedom > of speech and being cost free are two different things, and it's valid > to refer to one by itself. Then again, I also support freedom from > licensing fees, I don't much like them either. > > On another note, some IT establishments seem to enjoy paying fees if > it buys them assurance of 24/7 support. However, said establishments > probably also enjoy paying various other fees as well, that's my > impression. And by enjoy, I mean not feeling nauseous about spending > tens of thousands of dollars on individual software licenses. > > On 9/30/06, *Christopher Browne* > wrote: > > On 9/29/06, Simon > > wrote: > > I worry about alienating myself if I say something about "free as in > > freedom", but I think the most sane sounding thing to say, if > you want > > to clarify, is that you meant free to use, modify, and share, > not free > > of cost. > > This morning, Chris De Bona pointed out the important point that "free > of charge" is, in fact, one of the vital aspects. > > One of the relevant freedoms is "freedom from licensing fees," and > whenever people run up the flagpole the "free as in speech, not free > as in beer," they *are* contradicting that. > > There are a multiplicity of freedoms involved, and one of them *is* > freedom from people sending you licensing bills. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 4 02:20:10 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:20:10 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <452291CB.971B.00A2.0-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609301642.35010.marc@lijour.net> <452291CB.971B.00A2.0@novell.com> Message-ID: <200610032220.11937.marc@lijour.net> Thank you Andrew. I guess we are only talking about FOSS and education as only concerned citizens which happen to be a little more educated on FOSS and its potential benefits. The meeting went well tonight and I want to thank everybody who came in or who shared their interest with us, either physically or in this list. Tonight, we spent time to know about each others and to exchange on our backgrounds, experiences and interests. There is definitely a strong concern for good education in tech -we discussed problem solving as a core learning activity, what language and strategies are appropriate, and about software of course. But also there is a community willing to support the educational process and we heard about very interesting projects tonight. We felt the need to meet again and we also adopted Evan's proposition to continue the communication online. Everybody's welcome to jump in. If I get some time, I'd like to set up a wiki and may be somebody could take care of the IRC. Have a good night TLUGers! On October 3, 2006 04:37 pm, you wrote: > Hi Marc, just noticed this post on the TLUG mailing list (I am so behind > on all of these messages!). In any case, I'm not able to make it out on > Wednesday but I'd like to become a part of these discussions. Not sure > if there are any issues because of the fact that I work at Novell but I > do have a personal interest in open source that happens to align with my > responsibilities with the school boards in Ontario which is what > attracted me to your message in the first place. Would definitely like > to contribute what I can and listen to other opinions as well. > > Andrew Chung > > >>> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 4:42 PM, in message > > <200609301642.35010.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>, Marc Lijour > wrote: > > On September 29, 2006 11:29 pm, Simon wrote: > > Can you elaborate? > > I invite you and the interested TLUGers to gather around a table to > discuss > the following points. > > 1. what can FOSS and Linux can offer to the Ontario schools they don't > already > have > 2. TCO > 3. linux advocacy > 4. existing educational projects involving FOSS you know about > 5. FOSS evaluation (openBRR and similar) > > I believe FOSS and Linux are under represented in our government and > educational institutions in Ontario. My purpose is to survey the FOSS > and > Linux offer in order to confirm or not my feelings. This is a first > step. If > the outcomes shows that FOSS is actually under or misrepresented, we > could > discuss the possible causes and remedies. But this won't happen before > we can > get a fair panoramic view of FOSS and what it brings to the table. > > In terms of software acquisition, I see 2 main criteria: features and > price. I > regard as fair that FOSS compete with proprietary software, and that for > equal features the lesser priced software is the one we want. Is that > naive? > > We are lucky to have very knowledgeable FOSS advocates in TO and in this > list. > If we could gather 3 or 4 around a table for a first round it would be > great. > I have some contact with the provincial government and we can see where > this > leads to. > > Any volunteer? > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 3 21:44:56 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:44:56 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <4522C336.6000906-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <4522C336.6000906@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20061003214456.590fc6f4@mail.look.ca> At 09:08 PM 2006/10/03 +0100, David Thornton wrote: >My experience has been that often "business people" think that if they >are not paying for it , it's not professional. It's about having a >throat to choke. They hire me cause they want to be able to ring You mean "wring" my neck >when it doesn't work. They want me to use redhat so that when it breaks >I can ring You again mean "wring" redhat's neck. > >They WANT Redhat. They need to know when I can't fix it I can call the >monther-ship. Funny thing is , redhat support is worse than useless. >Which is typical for most first "support groups" which is a modern >"broken thing" > >http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4101280286098310645&q=broken > >Bah, >David I have had very different experiences. My customers want commercial software, and avoid public domain, freeware and shareware. They only want commercial software, but much prefer to "borrow" it from a friend, so that they don't have to pay money. One person somewhere buys the software, and 15,000 people use it, "pirating" it. When I asked these employees of government and billion-dollar corporations why they behaved that way, they said: "Because _=WE=_ can get away with it!" I don't want to mention the names of these employees, government organizations or billion-dollar corporations, because I don't want libel or slander lawsuits. P.s.: Are you the David Thornton who spent so much time involved in SAS ? Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 4 14:45:53 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:45:53 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <45181BF7.2050800-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <450058CC.7010708@telly.org> <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <200610041045.53474.rob@luckdancing.com> On Monday 25 September 2006 14:12, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > HELO, > > The gtalug.org site is down (and with it any potential access to > Web-based archives). Out of curiosity...did anything ever become of the > writing group idea? It seemed to more less take a fade...however, I'm still interested in finding some people to work with, so if anyone wants to start something, let me know off-list or drop by 216 Beverly St. (Secular Freethought Center) Thursdays between 5 and 9 pm - I'm running an informal drop in kind of group there for people interested in learning about FOSS. Rob Sutherland http://www.luckdancing.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 4 15:22:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 15:22:43 +0000 Subject: gtalug.org wiki outage... Message-ID: On 10/4/06, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > The gtalug.org site is down (and with it any potential access to > > Web-based archives). Out of curiosity...did anything ever become of the > > writing group idea? Good news: web site is back up. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 4 19:03:39 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 15:03:39 -0400 Subject: Firefox crash under odd circumstances Message-ID: <1f13df280610041203r62485ba2h833861a0c5ed6c15@mail.gmail.com> I've been using the wmii window manager for a while now. I took a short break to try out dwm which uses much of the same code. My browser of choice is Firefox, and I have the latest release for Ubuntu, 1.5.0.7. I use kernel 2.6.15-23-386 on Dapper Drake. The problem I'm having is that FF crashes under certain window managers when I log in to gmail. Not at the login screen, but when I get to my inbox. Note that I only have parts of Gnome and KDE installed, I can't tell you if it works with them. It crashes on: blackbox, fluxbox, fvwm, fvwm-crystal, icewm, jwm, metacity, and wmaker. It does not crash on: ctwm, dwm, twm, w9wm, wm2, wmii, wmx. Not that I use all of those regularly - I was experimenting with fvwm-crystal and flipped to fluxbox, only to find it was a problem there too, so I kept trying. The problem is always the same: Destroy The program 'Gecko' received an X Window System error. This probably reflects a bug in the program. The error was 'BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter)'. (Details: serial 27 error_code 167 request_code 144 minor_code 2) (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously; that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it. To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.) The only exact match on Google for "serial 27 error_code 167 request_code 144 minor_code 2" suggested turning off JavaScript, probably not a good idea with gmail. This problem has continued for several months, including across a FF upgrade (I think) and is becoming extremely frustrating. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing it? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 01:01:54 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 21:01:54 -0400 Subject: Crontab In-Reply-To: <20061003000749.1f474cbe.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061003000749.1f474cbe.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: Ubuntu seems to add a similar header to an empty crontab that describes each column.. # m h dom mon dow command Offtopic though.. On 10/3/06, Howard Gibson wrote: > I did the following after I read the man page and I modified crontab. ... > > # day day > # of of > # minute hour mon mon week command > ########################################################### > 30 03 * * * /bin/do/something > 50 10 * * tue /bin/do/somethingelse -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 01:45:33 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 21:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ati Radeon 7000 vs. nVidia FX 5500 Message-ID: <20061005014533.54056.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am in the process of building my first dedicated MythTV box (as opposed to running MythTV on my "main" PC), using parts left over from other projects. One of the questions I have is what video card to use, I can use an Ati AGP Radeon 7000 (64 MB) or an XFX nVidia AGP FX 5500 (256 MB). Now, by all reasonable measures I know the nVidia will win out performance wise over the Ati card (and in most areas win by a wide margin). My problem is that there is a fan on the nVidia card. The MythTV box already has a Duron 950 with a loud heat sink fan, and a power supply with a loud fan, Add in the noise of 2 x 40 GB hard drives and we are talking a loud box. In other words I don't want to add to the noise level if I can avoid it (and I don't have the budget to upgrade hardware for this project). Question is can I? As in, with a PVR 150 card for a tuner, can I get away with an Ati Radeon 7000, and still be able to record one show, while displaying another? Or is the only to go with the XFX nVidia FX 5500 and live with the extra noise? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 02:18:05 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:18:05 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets Message-ID: we use a linux/apache webdav server for group calendaring. The calendars work great (some folks are using sunbird and some are using the firefox calendar extension to access the site) All is smooth, no problems. anyone know of a product which can do basic spreadsheets? i guess it would have to use xml or some similar voodoo in order to manipulate the data live. openoffice.org and microsoft 2003 have very limited and very early functionality, sort of heading in this direction. webdav appears to be the direction that distributed computing is going when it comes to accessing remote file sytems. our clendars are very resposnsive because they are flat files, very compact text files so the client side does all the graphical beautification i can't see anything on sourceforge, but maybe i am not asking the right questions thx dave _________________________________________________________________ Experience Live Search from your PC or mobile device today. http://www.live.com/?mkt=en-ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 02:30:47 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:30:47 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610042230.47867.marc@lijour.net> On October 4, 2006 10:18 pm, dave morton wrote: > we use a linux/apache webdav server for group calendaring. The calendars > work great (some folks are using sunbird and some are using the firefox > calendar extension to access the site) All is smooth, no problems. > > anyone know of a product which can do basic spreadsheets? i guess it would > have to use xml or some similar voodoo in order to manipulate the data > live. > > openoffice.org and microsoft 2003 have very limited and very early > functionality, sort of heading in this direction. > > webdav appears to be the direction that distributed computing is going when > it comes to accessing remote file sytems. our clendars are very resposnsive > because they are flat files, very compact text files so the client side > does all the graphical beautification > > i can't see anything on sourceforge, but maybe i am not asking the right > questions > > thx dave Google has some basic spreadsheet online. It looks amazing and very promissing. Google calendars are quite complete in terms of functionality. You can see and even superimpose your calendar with friends'. Standard calendars such as many countries' holidays are readily available. When I set up an event in google calendar I often ask it to send me a text message to my cell phone to remind me. This is very sweet :) imap is also great for distributed computing. Imap folders can be tagged and store many things. KDE Kontact comes with some functionality (as a client to Kolab which uses IMAP if I am not mistaken). It looks to me that the famous First Class system is using IMAP as a backend as well (actually it has an imap server). marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 03:05:16 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 00:05:16 -0300 (ADT) Subject: Jobs at GenieKnows.com Message-ID: Hi guys, GenieKnows.com, part of IT Interactive Services Inc., a privately held company based in Halifax, has two immediate openings: System/Network Analyst http://www.careerbeacon.com/cat/en/1/3/MB0609265128 Software Programmer (Web) http://www.careerbeacon.com/cat/en/1/3/MB0609265214 Please feel free to contact me if you have any question. Applications should be directed to the CTO, Mausam Kalra (kalra-D3zMUlhP5N+XSf5tG21kQg at public.gmane.org). Cheers, TAA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tony Abou-Assaleh Director of Research and Development GenieKnows.com IT Interactive Services Inc. Voice: (902)-431-4847 Ext 156 Fax: (902)-431-4848 Email: taa-D3zMUlhP5N+XSf5tG21kQg at public.gmane.org --------------------------------[THE END]------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 03:26:00 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:26:00 +0800 Subject: OT: HP C-class vs IBM H model Message-ID: <200610051126.02542.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, Can anyone send me their experiences in using HP C-class and IBM H-model. Good and Bad. You may send it directly or via the list... Those vendors wouldn't mind since those are personal experiences.. thanks, Mailing-List -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 12:01:59 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:01:59 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610050801.59150.rob@luckdancing.com> I have this low end (120 mhz Pentium) recycled box without a CD drive, but with a floppy drive and 2 gig HD that I'd like to set up with DSL. I've come across a couple of howto type posts about how to do this, but they aren't too coherent. Anyone done this recently? Or know of a good descrition of the process? Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 12:02:23 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:02:23 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets Message-ID: the downside to google calendaring is that logging in is through the main portal, giving your users access to all your personal email and spreadsheets etc. we use webdav calendaring because it is a discrete application, used soley for group calendar function and we can have a seemingly unlimited number of people subscribed and editing the calendars as needed , all in real-time, doing read/write. (dav is distributed, authoring, and versioning- so all our calendars are are up to date in real time) imap is ok for email web servers, but sessions are limited in the way they can be used. (you can't just drag a file over to the server or get one back onto your desktop - you must manipulate the server with a mail client --- i believe) because webdav is a derivative of http, sessions can be encrypted etc because the functionality has existed in web browsers for a long time. furthermore, drag and drop are done as if you are working on your local desktop. i agree, google stuff is beautiful, but for collaborative calendaring and spreadshet work, it is too limited when a group of people need read/write access in real time regards dave >marc lijour >Google has some basic spreadsheet online. It looks amazing and very >promissing. >Google calendars are quite complete in terms of functionality. You can see >and >even superimpose your calendar with friends'. Standard calendars such as >many >countries' holidays are readily available. >When I set up an event in google calendar I often ask it to send me a text >message to my cell phone to remind me. This is very sweet :) > >imap is also great for distributed computing. Imap folders can be tagged >and >store many things. KDE Kontact comes with some functionality (as a client >to >Kolab which uses IMAP if I am not mistaken). >It looks to me that the famous First Class system is using IMAP as a >backend >as well (actually it has an imap server). > >marc > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 12:51:37 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:51:37 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: <200610050801.59150.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <200610050801.59150.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <200610050851.37491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 05 October 2006 08:01, Rob Sutherland wrote: > I have this low end (120 mhz Pentium) recycled box without a CD drive, but > with a floppy drive and 2 gig HD that I'd like to set up with DSL. I've > come across a couple of howto type posts about how to do this, but they > aren't too coherent. Anyone done this recently? Or know of a good > descrition of the process? Are you wanting to do the install with floppies only and with the PC negotiating it's own pppoe connection? It would seem easier to just connect either a temporary CD or temporary router. You could give Debian a try, grab the floppies from http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-i386/current//images/floppy/ Debian has pppoe in the base system and pppoeconf which makes it very easy to configure your DSL connection. The question is whether the 4-5 floppies contain pppoe/pppoeconf, perhaps someone else has tried it? If you have other PCs on the network you might be able to PXE boot your box or use the floppies in combination with a local install image. More details on exactly what difficulty you're having would help ... -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 13:06:35 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:06:35 -0400 Subject: Jobs at GenieKnows.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4525035B.10208@telly.org> Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > GenieKnows.com, part of IT Interactive Services Inc., a privately held company based in Halifax, has two immediate openings: > I know that commuting can be a pain, but sheesh.... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 13:40:41 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:40:41 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: <200610050851.37491.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200610050801.59150.rob@luckdancing.com> <200610050851.37491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200610050940.41229.rob@luckdancing.com> On Thursday 05 October 2006 08:51, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Are you wanting to do the install with floppies only and with the PC > negotiating it's own pppoe connection? It would seem easier to just > connect either a temporary CD or temporary router. Yes, you're absolutely right, I'm just short on reliable CD drives at the moment, so I'm trying this :-( I'm using a 2 floppy mini-distro called blueflops - http://blueflops.sourceforge.net/ and the box has a working nic and access to a DSL connection, so I can download and manipulate things. From what I've read, the approach seems to be that you create two partitions, download the distro you want to install to one and then install it on the other partition. > > You could give Debian a try, grab the floppies from > http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-i386/current//i >mages/floppy/ Ok, cool, I'll try that... > If you have other PCs on the network you might be able to PXE boot your box > or use the floppies in combination with a local install image. More details > on exactly what difficulty you're having would help ... I think I need to understand how to set things up to install from a local install image after booting with a floppy. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 13:54:53 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:54:53 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: <200610050851.37491.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200610050801.59150.rob@luckdancing.com> <200610050851.37491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20061005135453.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 08:51:37AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Are you wanting to do the install with floppies only and with the PC > negotiating it's own pppoe connection? It would seem easier to just connect > either a temporary CD or temporary router. > > You could give Debian a try, grab the floppies from > http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-i386/current//images/floppy/ > > Debian has pppoe in the base system and pppoeconf which makes it very easy to > configure your DSL connection. The question is whether the 4-5 floppies > contain pppoe/pppoeconf, perhaps someone else has tried it? > > If you have other PCs on the network you might be able to PXE boot your box or > use the floppies in combination with a local install image. More details on > exactly what difficulty you're having would help ... I believe in expert mode the debian sarge installer supports pppoe. I have never tried it though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 14:00:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:00:03 -0400 Subject: Ati Radeon 7000 vs. nVidia FX 5500 In-Reply-To: <20061005014533.54056.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061005014533.54056.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061005140003.GB30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 09:45:33PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am in the process of building my first dedicated > MythTV box (as opposed to running MythTV on my "main" > PC), using parts left over from other projects. One of > the questions I have is what video card to use, I can > use an Ati AGP Radeon 7000 (64 MB) or an XFX nVidia > AGP FX 5500 (256 MB). Now, by all reasonable measures > I know the nVidia will win out performance wise over > the Ati card (and in most areas win by a wide margin). > > My problem is that there is a fan on the nVidia card. > The MythTV box already has a Duron 950 with a loud > heat sink fan, and a power supply with a loud fan, Add > in the noise of 2 x 40 GB hard drives and we are > talking a loud box. In other words I don't want to add > to the noise level if I can avoid it (and I don't have > the budget to upgrade hardware for this project). > Question is can I? As in, with a PVR 150 card for a > tuner, can I get away with an Ati Radeon 7000, and > still be able to record one show, while displaying > another? Or is the only to go with the XFX nVidia FX > 5500 and live with the extra noise? My mythtv box has a fanless FX5200 card, which works great. A duron 950 should not require a loud fan. $20 should get you a new quiet fan. I don't deal with ati anymore due to crappy drivers and support. My experiences with ATIs drivers are all bad. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 15:14:05 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:14:05 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: <200610050940.41229.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <200610050851.37491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200610050940.41229.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <200610051114.05946.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 05 October 2006 09:40, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > If you have other PCs on the network you might be able to PXE boot your > > box or use the floppies in combination with a local install image. More > > details on exactly what difficulty you're having would help ... > > I think I need to understand how to set things up to install from a local > install image after booting with a floppy. The Debian installer images will install from the net which should be fine for your DSL install ... the question is just whether the 4-5 floppies do contain the pppoe support. I think they do but I'm not certain. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 15:42:54 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:42:54 +0000 Subject: Not Quite a Cheese Shop Message-ID: http://blogs.linux.ie/frankly/2003/12/05/not-quite-a-cheese-shop/ Here's a re-presentation of the SCO situation in the light of a certain sketch about a cheese shop... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 18:17:46 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:17:46 -0400 Subject: Entry Linux job, support, documentaion Message-ID: <1160072266.31970.170.camel@stan64.site> I have a lead on a Linux job, Linux tech support and some admin ability, programming ability would be a bonus. Would be supporting a Boot DVD linux distro out to at home working call center agents that will be booting this thing up on "who knows what" and need some one to resolve graphic card issues, network (dhcp) issue that at home agent might have. This job is virtual ... you work from home, and collect a pay cheque!! Reply to this Address, make the subject meaningful! -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 5 23:36:29 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:36:29 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <44BE5D30.9070905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <452596FD.8040504@interlog.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to > let a perl program execute commands as root? [snip] > Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? AFAICR, the majordomo mailing list program was Perl based and required some root priveleges to run. It had a C wrapper that was used to invoke the Perl program. I would suggest you get a copy of majordomo and see what it did to let you run the Perl program with higher priveleges. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 00:31:38 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 20:31:38 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610052031.38827.marc@lijour.net> On October 5, 2006 08:02 am, dave morton wrote: > the downside to google calendaring is that logging in is through the main > portal, giving your users access to all your personal email and > spreadsheets etc. I read something about making all or parts of your calendar visible. But I have not tested it. Information is clearly provided in the page though. > imap is ok for email web servers, but sessions are limited in the way they > can be used. (you can't just drag a file over to the server or get one back > onto your desktop - you must manipulate the server with a mail client --- i > believe) my point was that IMAP is a protocols that allows much more than email management. Other clients (other than mail's) can be written (and have been apparently). > because webdav is a derivative of http, sessions can be encrypted etc > because the functionality has existed in web browsers for a long time. > furthermore, drag and drop are done as if you are working on your local > desktop. I don't want to argue on what is the best solution. But IMAP also can be secured via TLS for example (and ssh tunnels, vpn, etc.) > > i agree, google stuff is beautiful, but for collaborative calendaring and > spreadshet work, it is too limited when a group of people need read/write > access in real time Ok. I take your word on it. Have you seen writely -the web site? You can edit a text document collaboratively. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 05:28:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 01:28:49 -0400 Subject: Not Quite a Cheese Shop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A lack of evidence, eh? Totally didn't see that coming three years ago, no sir.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 07:59:31 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:59:31 +0800 Subject: OT: Mysql Performance Tuning Message-ID: <200610061559.32079.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, I'am currently looking for mysql standard and mysql cluster tuning tips and rule of thumb.... Can someone help me on this? thanks, Mailing-List -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 10:54:27 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 06:54:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Mysql Performance Tuning In-Reply-To: <200610061559.32079.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200610061559.32079.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20061006105427.GA14778@ettin> The Mysql documentation has some sections on tuning. Also devshed forums have some threads on tuning that you can search for. http://forums.devshed.com/mysql-help-4/ -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17.6 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 12:47:47 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:47:47 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <452596FD.8040504-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <452596FD.8040504@interlog.com> Message-ID: <45265073.7070401@alteeve.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way >> to let a perl program execute commands as root? > [snip] >> Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? > > AFAICR, the majordomo mailing list program was Perl based and required > some root priveleges to run. It had a C wrapper that was used to invoke > the Perl program. > > I would suggest you get a copy of majordomo and see what it did to let > you run the Perl program with higher priveleges. > Since I posted this I have settled on using a C-wrapper, as well. What I do is, during the install, edit the C source to specify the perl file to execute by full path and pass any arguments it receives on to the called-perl script. Maybe I can ask now, with the thread back to life, how could I have C check the ownership/permissions of the script to make sure it is not world-writable (to avoid tampering with the perl script) and have it die if so? BTW, I got the C-code from 'perlsec'. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 12:57:10 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 08:57:10 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <45265073.7070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <452596FD.8040504@interlog.com> <45265073.7070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: >Maybe I can ask now, with the thread back to life, how could I have C >check the ownership/permissions of the script to make sure it is not >world-writable (to avoid tampering with the perl script) and have it die >if so? man 2 stat paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 15:49:29 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:49:29 -0400 Subject: Money and Linux Message-ID: <1160149769.4066.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I like Doc Searls Linux for Suits Page 44, Linux Journal, October 2006 column about the effect Linux has on our world. " Linux is building material. It's primary value is not in itself, but what it makes possible...Far more money is made because of Linux than with it." That about sums it up. RickT -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 6 16:53:41 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:53:41 -0400 Subject: Money and Linux In-Reply-To: <1160149769.4066.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1160149769.4066.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I like Doc Searls Linux for Suits Page 44, Linux Journal, October 2006 > column about the effect Linux has on our world. " Linux is building > material. It's primary value is not in itself, but what it makes > possible...Far more money is made because of Linux than with it." That > about sums it up. The implication there is that Linux's value is best measured in monetary terms. While undoubtedly true to some degree, and more so for those who use Linux as a part of their business, (I don't buy the TCO FUD put out by some), I do think that part of Linux's value is inherent in it's ontic (digital or otherwise) existence. The value of linux, in and of itself, can also be understood (not measured in this case) as a manifestation of a value system(s) -- one that Linus Torvalds valued enough to use to license his kernel. The various BSD, GPL, licenses are the truly valuable things, because they represent the legally codified philosophical or value systems of their creators. Historical value too, though I am not an historian so am clueless as to how one would (or if it is appropriate) make historical value judgments. It is easier to measure the monetary value of a thing like Linux or apache or whatever than it is to describe the value of the value system that allows or allowed Linux or apache to exist and flourish in the first place. Still, Searls' analysis above is commendable and astute. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 02:00:16 2006 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 22:00:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Mysql Performance Tuning In-Reply-To: <200610061559.32079.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200610061559.32079.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <1160186416.1510.4.camel@ambipapa> > I'am currently looking for mysql standard and mysql cluster tuning tips and > rule of thumb.... Can someone help me on this? > Check out "High Performance MySQL" by Jeremy Zawodny and Derek J. Balling (O'Reilly). It offers a fairly comprehensive view of MySQL tuning. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 02:07:08 2006 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 22:07:08 -0400 Subject: DSL install without CD drive? In-Reply-To: <200610050801.59150.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <200610050801.59150.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <200610062207.08723.dbmacg@look.ca> It ain't worth it. I would get a used CD drive and use that. (You have to give *some* value to your time.) You did not mention how much RAM you have, and whether you have a network card. I have a Pentium 166 that runs DSL nicely on 64mb RAM, booting from CD. (The Intel Motherboard cannot handle more that 64mb of RAM.) If your machine has USB ports, or even USB support on the motherboard, than USB is an option. If your BIOS will not allow you to boot from CDROM or a USB drive: 'Smart Boot Manager' (Google it) uses a floppy to boot from CDROM. DSL menus offer a floppy that boots from a USB drive. On October 5, 2006 08:01 am, Rob Sutherland wrote: > I have this low end (120 mhz Pentium) recycled box without a CD drive, but > with a floppy drive and 2 gig HD that I'd like to set up with DSL. I've > come across a couple of howto type posts about how to do this, but they > aren't too coherent. Anyone done this recently? Or know of a good > descrition of the process? > > Rob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- --- Duncan MacGregor --Toronto -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 10:40:37 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:40:37 +0100 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20061003214456.590fc6f4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <3.0.6.16.20061003214456.590fc6f4@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <45278425.7010102@quadratic.net> Oh for heck sake .. sry 4 my pour engrish. Next time ring me and wring my neck over the phone :P he he .... What's SAS? Special Air Services? The acronym doesn't ring a bell right off. Also my Dad has the same name as me. Oh and about that pirating? Ever Heard of BSA? MS lackey and Unwitting hero of OSS. http://www.bsa.org/ Ok maybe that's a bit of a skeptical view, forgive me. David James McIntosh wrote: >At 09:08 PM 2006/10/03 +0100, David Thornton wrote: > > > >>My experience has been that often "business people" think that if they >>are not paying for it , it's not professional. It's about having a >>throat to choke. They hire me cause they want to be able to >> >> > >ring > >You mean "wring" > >my neck > > >>when it doesn't work. They want me to use redhat so that when it breaks >>I can >> >> > >ring > >You again mean "wring" > >redhat's neck. > > >>They WANT Redhat. They need to know when I can't fix it I can call the >>monther-ship. Funny thing is , redhat support is worse than useless. >>Which is typical for most first "support groups" which is a modern >>"broken thing" >> >>http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4101280286098310645&q=broken >> >>Bah, >>David >> >> > > >I have had very different experiences. > >My customers want commercial software, and avoid public domain, freeware >and shareware. > >They only want commercial software, but much prefer to "borrow" it from a >friend, so that they don't have to pay money. > >One person somewhere buys the software, and 15,000 people use it, >"pirating" it. > >When I asked these employees of government and billion-dollar corporations >why they behaved that way, they said: >"Because _=WE=_ can get away with it!" > >I don't want to mention the names of these employees, government >organizations or billion-dollar corporations, because I don't want libel or >slander lawsuits. > >P.s.: Are you the David Thornton who spent so much time involved in SAS ? > > >Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 16:38:49 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 12:38:49 -0400 Subject: Obituary: Ralph Griswold Message-ID: In Arizona news, this week, Ralph Griswold, retired "Regent Professor" at University of Arizona, passed away due to complications from pancreatic cancer. He was noted as the creator of the SNOBOL and Icon languages. SNOBOL was one of the first (first I can remember) dynamic languages specialized to string processing. That is ordinary today; it was quite novel in the '60s. Some of the major ideas from Icon (coroutines, generators) have been getting applied to Ruby and Python. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Griswold -- http://linuxdatabases.info/info/langother.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 17:03:16 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:03:16 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets Message-ID: ah, the old... read the fine manual marc, now i understand a little more about imap. after some more reading, it does look very good for moving around all sorts of stuff. i fooled with squirrel mail a few years ago, i was in love with imap at that time, but i was running into problems with port blocking on both bell and rogers, so i gave up, i didn't realize that it could be used for more than email. i may have jumped onto the webdav bandwagon too soon, as i have discovered our windows xp clients and linux users can all read/write directly to the site using excel, word, openoffice.org etc, but i am beginning to fear that i may have left my server open to major abuse. i really need to rethink this. at least imap can be locked down securely. i am not so sure about webdav. your other point that google can be configured looks promising. i may very well be trying to re-invent a wheel which already exists. i despair if my tone seemed argumentative. apology given. i value the help i have received over many years from the group. i go back to a time on this group when we were all figuring out ppp for dialup on redhat 5 funny, i was thinking about the group member the other day who passed away about 4 or 5 years ago so suddenly. does anyone remember his name? he was a very accomplished unix/linux administrator who taught everyone so much. weird that it had popped into my mind thx again dave _________________________________________________________________ Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 18:44:13 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:44:13 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610071444.13403.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 07 October 2006 13:03, dave morton wrote: > funny, i was thinking about the group member the other day who passed away > about 4 or 5 years ago so suddenly. does anyone remember his name? he was a > very accomplished unix/linux administrator who taught everyone so much. Jan Carlson IIRC. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 18:01:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:01:43 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/4/06, dave morton wrote: > we use a linux/apache webdav server for group calendaring. The calendars > work great (some folks are using sunbird and some are using the firefox > calendar extension to access the site) All is smooth, no problems. > > anyone know of a product which can do basic spreadsheets? i guess it would > have to use xml or some similar voodoo in order to manipulate the data live. There are a bunch of companies that have products to do this; it's not generally free software; they won't let you have the code. Google Spreadsheets is most notable, but there are plenty of them: - JotSpot - Writeboard - Zoho - ThinkFree - irows - numsum The only "product" for this that you can self-host that I know of is: Uses Linux/Apache; NOT free... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 20:10:39 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <200610071444.13403.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200610071444.13403.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200610071610.39553.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 07 October 2006 14:44, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Saturday 07 October 2006 13:03, dave morton wrote: > > funny, i was thinking about the group member the other day who passed > > away about 4 or 5 years ago so suddenly. does anyone remember his name? > > he was a very accomplished unix/linux administrator who taught everyone > > so much. I do remember. Similar name to yours. We are all going to be at the same place and thinking with time more about that. zb. > Jan Carlson IIRC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 20:16:03 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 16:16:03 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610071616.04006.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 07 October 2006 14:01, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/4/06, dave morton wrote: > > we use a linux/apache webdav server for group calendaring. The calendars > > work great (some folks are using sunbird and some are using the firefox > > calendar extension to access the site) All is smooth, no problems. > > > > anyone know of a product which can do basic spreadsheets? i guess it > > would have to use xml or some similar voodoo in order to manipulate the > > data live. > > There are a bunch of companies that have products to do this; These things are easy to program, now, using JavaScript. Though this is the ugliest of possible programming languages it has the power to communicate with the server and replace the data shown on web page. This gives it incredible capabilities. This is the future of the web programming (actually things started already but are not broadly known). I am doing that sort of programming. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tomek32-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 7 21:09:57 2006 From: tomek32-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tom Hosiawa) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:09:57 -0400 Subject: connecting notebook/digital receiver with optical cable Message-ID: Hey everybody, I'm new to this group so I'll quickly introduce myself. I just moved to the North York area, been using linux for probably around 4 years, currently running Gentoo on my laptop and an old desktop server. Anyways, I want to connect my notebook to my digital reciever through an optical cable (with the potential to get 5.1 surrond sound). Any recommendations in a USB or PCMCIA device (preferably USB) that will work in Linux/Windows? So far the only thing I've found is couple of devices from Creative. But I'm not sure if I need something as complicated as that, plus it doesn't seem like stores carry it here. Any recommendations? -- Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 8 21:43:04 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:43:04 -0400 Subject: webdav and spreadsheets Message-ID: thank you!! i always appreciated his encouragement, never any pique, and a natural teacher. i miss his input happy thanksgiving all.... we all get up in the morning and switch on our screens to check the news, read the sports etc, never considering that we might have to start looking for food all over again dave >From: Fraser Campbell >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: webdav and spreadsheets >Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:44:13 -0400 > >On Saturday 07 October 2006 13:03, dave morton wrote: > > > funny, i was thinking about the group member the other day who passed >away > > about 4 or 5 years ago so suddenly. does anyone remember his name? he >was a > > very accomplished unix/linux administrator who taught everyone so much. > >Jan Carlson IIRC. > >-- >Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ >Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 05:55:19 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 01:55:19 -0400 Subject: raggle aggregator Message-ID: <61e9e2b10610082255h232058f3sdc3b912e1bf42dcc@mail.gmail.com> I am trying to setup Raggle - a console news aggregator - to use Firefox as the external browser for selected web links. I have read the man page and Googled for more info and it certainly seems possible, but its confusing over what exactly must be modified in the config file (~/.raggle/config.rb) to achieve this. I have tried adding: # browser options 'browser' => ['/usr/bin/firefox'], 'browser_cmd' => ['${browser}', 'openurl(%s, new-tab)'], ...and get this output: /usr/bin/raggle:3702:in `system': wrong first argument (ArgumentError) | Press Q to exit from /usr/bin/raggle:3702:in `open_link' from /usr/bin/raggle:2913:in `select_win_item' from /usr/bin/raggle:2361:in `select_item' from (eval):1:in `_load' from /usr/bin/raggle:4313:in `call' from /usr/bin/raggle:4313:in `main_loop' from /usr/bin/raggle:5661:in `main' from /usr/bin/raggle:6674 Thanks for using Raggle! I have tried several other options as well, but none of them produce any output whatsoever. The default option for raggle makes use of lynx, and this does work as expected. How can I make Firefox my default browser for Raggle, and open a new tab for every link I select? Thanks for any help! -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 09:32:52 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 05:32:52 -0400 Subject: net-snmp-iptables and mrtg Message-ID: I was trying to get MRTG up and running, but first had to get net-snmp installed and running correctly. net-snmp seems to be installed and running okay. (this is not 100% sure) If I disable iptables, snmp and snmpwalk work fine.(displays miles of jargon) If I enable iptables, snmpd and snmptrapd daemons start up without errors, have no log errors and processes show up in ps. Then i run snmpwalk with iptables enabled...and get the sendto: operation not permitted. My iptables enables INPUT and OUPUT udp/161 and udp/162 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 13:15:16 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:15:16 -0400 Subject: net-snmp-iptables and mrtg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I removed the net-snmp rpms 5.1.2x I installed the current sourcetars of net-snmp 5.31. however net-snmp does not compile and gives the error.. libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libbeecrypt.la' or unhandled argument `/usr/lib/libbeecrypt.la' make[1]: *** [snmpd] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/packages/net-snmp-5.4.pre3/agent' make: *** [subdirs] Error 1 I had to try the net-snmp 5.4pre3 because the 5.31 had the same error. Everyone says to fix this bug, install beecrypt-devel...but I have no clue where this is right now... Teddy David Mills wrote: > > I was trying to get MRTG up and running, but first had to get net-snmp > installed and running correctly. > net-snmp seems to be installed and running okay. (this is not 100% sure) > > If I disable iptables, snmp and snmpwalk work fine.(displays miles of > jargon) > > If I enable iptables, snmpd and snmptrapd daemons start up without > errors, have no log errors and processes show up in ps. > Then i run snmpwalk with iptables enabled...and get the sendto: > operation not permitted. > > My iptables enables INPUT and OUPUT udp/161 and udp/162 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 15:29:46 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:29:46 -0400 Subject: raggle aggregator In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10610082255h232058f3sdc3b912e1bf42dcc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10610082255h232058f3sdc3b912e1bf42dcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061009152946.GB16445@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 01:55:19AM -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote > 'browser' => ['/usr/bin/firefox'], > 'browser_cmd' => ['${browser}', 'openurl(%s, new-tab)'], I believe the 'openurl(%s, new-tab)' syntax has been deprecated. > How can I make Firefox my default browser for Raggle, and open a > new tab for every link I select? Thanks for any help! I run mutt and slrn in true text-console mode, and have them open up URLs in Firefox. I use the {CTRL}{ALT}{Fn} keys to switch back and forth. Some of my experience may be relavant. The command that urlview passes is... COMMAND ~/bin/firefoxremote %s and ~/bin/firefoxremote consists of the lines... #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/firefox ${1} You mentioned wanting a new tab. That's exactly what I want, too. In Firefox, go to... - Edit - Preferences - Tabs - Open links from other applications in and then click on "a new tab in the most recent window". Don't forget... [x] Select new tabs opened from links -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 15:40:01 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:40:01 -0400 Subject: amavsid-new and spamassassin Message-ID: <20061009154001.GA7244@watson-wilson.ca> I seem to be missing something fundamental about getting this working. I have amavisd-new talking to postfix. Email is being delivered normally. I do not understand how to make amavisd use Spamassassin. The documents I have read talk about an amavisd.conf file. However, I do not see that file in the Debain (sarge, testing) install: ettin:/etc/amavis/conf.d# ls -l total 56 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1458 2006-08-10 15:29 01-debian -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 692 2006-08-10 15:29 05-domain_id -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 235 2006-10-09 09:31 05-node_id -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13907 2006-08-10 15:29 15-av_scanners -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 554 2006-08-10 15:29 15-content_filter_mode -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9187 2006-08-10 15:29 20-debian_defaults -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 573 2006-08-10 15:29 25-amavis_helpers -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2130 2006-08-10 15:29 30-template_localization -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 318 2006-08-10 15:29 50-user How can I make Spamassassin work? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 9 21:04:11 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:04:11 -0400 Subject: raggle aggregator In-Reply-To: <20061009152946.GB16445-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10610082255h232058f3sdc3b912e1bf42dcc@mail.gmail.com> <20061009152946.GB16445@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: That part is unnecessary, I would think.. On 10/9/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > Don't forget... > [x] Select new tabs opened from links -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 12:46:00 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:46:00 -0400 Subject: Disable Gnome's help (at least when pressing ) Message-ID: <452B9608.7060704@alteeve.com> Hi all, On my laptop the key is directly above the key. This causes me a lot of headaches in 'vim' :p. Is it possible/does anyone know how to tell Gnome to *NOT* open 'help' when is pressed? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 15:03:23 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:03:23 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system Message-ID: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> Got a world traveller here? I am curious if anyone has experience using a North American dial up modem in Japan. The wall plug is the same, thats about all I know. I was thinking of sending an AOpen FM56-PLX over there, a fairly cheap PCI hardware modem. Thanks for any comments about the modem or compatibilty. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 15:07:57 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:07:57 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <200610101103.23935.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <452BB74D.1090802@alteeve.com> Merv Curley wrote: > Got a world traveller here? > > I am curious if anyone has experience using a North American dial up modem in > Japan. The wall plug is the same, thats about all I know. > > I was thinking of sending an AOpen FM56-PLX over there, a fairly cheap PCI > hardware modem. > > Thanks for any comments about the modem or compatibilty. It *should* be okay. A friend of mine bought an Apple laptop here and moved back to Japan with it (though she might be on broadband). Another friend bought her laptop in Japan and uses it on dial-up here in Canada no problem. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 15:19:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:19:12 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <200610101103.23935.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20061010151912.GC30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:03:23AM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > Got a world traveller here? > > I am curious if anyone has experience using a North American dial up modem in > Japan. The wall plug is the same, thats about all I know. > > I was thinking of sending an AOpen FM56-PLX over there, a fairly cheap PCI > hardware modem. > > Thanks for any comments about the modem or compatibilty. Many modems have a country setting. Setting it to the right country should do the right thing. You might need a correct cable to connect to the phone jack from the modem (most modems have north american style connectors on them because they are small and cheap). If you don't set the country setting wrong, you may not be able to dial and/or connect. You might also (quite likely) be breaking the law in the country you are in. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 15:22:10 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:22:10 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <452BB74D.1090802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> <452BB74D.1090802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200610101122.10660.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 10 October 2006 11:07, Madison Kelly wrote: > > It *should* be okay. A friend of mine bought an Apple laptop here and > moved back to Japan with it (though she might be on broadband). Another > friend bought her laptop in Japan and uses it on dial-up here in Canada > no problem. > Thanks Madison, with that I'll plunk down the $$ and get it on its way. A chap there can't get his Winmodem to work at the same speed in Linux as it does in Windows. Conextant want $20 US for new Linux drivers which may work better. I've suggested that a Hardware modem is the best way to go. Broadband there is prohibitively expensive and even his dialup is $10 US a month for 4 hours. $6 an hour over that. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 16:37:29 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <200610101103.23935.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Merv Curley wrote: > Got a world traveller here? > > I am curious if anyone has experience using a North American dial up modem in > Japan. The wall plug is the same, thats about all I know. In some countries the specific model must be blessed by Telco standards agency before it is legal to use the device on the local phone network. I can't speak for Japan but I personally never connect equipment that is not verified by the relevant local agency. As I understand it, in the past phone networks were very sensitive to non-compliant devices (to the point that it was possible to damage the network by sending voltage spikes that the network was not designed to cope with). I'm not sure how true this still is but many national laws can be quite tough on this point. Yeah I'm being the voice of doom :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 16:44:33 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:44:33 -0400 Subject: Disable Gnome's help (at least when pressing ) In-Reply-To: <452B9608.7060704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <452B9608.7060704@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061010164433.GA14251@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:46:00AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > On my laptop the key is directly above the key. This >causes me a lot of headaches in 'vim' :p. Is it possible/does anyone >know how to tell Gnome to *NOT* open 'help' when is pressed? Generally, you can map the F1 key to something else. You can just do the mapping in vim to ensure that your change makes the smallest difference to your environment, but you should be able to do it in the window manager as well. You should probably map F1 to something innocuous though, or your solution will make you batty. That said, I fix this by mapping the Caps Lock key to Esc, and then I reach less and keep my fingers closer to home. The side effect is that I never find myself accidentally SHOUTING AT EVERYONE or messing up passwords. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 16:51:45 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:51:45 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <200610101122.10660.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> <452BB74D.1090802@alteeve.com> <200610101122.10660.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <452BCFA1.90207@telly.org> Merv Curley wrote: > A chap there can't get his Winmodem to work at the same speed in Linux as it does in Windows. Conextant want $20 US for new Linux drivers which may work better. > Japan has its College-and-Spadina holes in the wall, and its tech supermarkets put FutureShop to shame, Your friend can most likely get an AOpen hardware modem there for less than the cost of shipping, taxes and duty from Canada. And, of course, the modems bought there will be legal for use there, probably unlike the one you will send. Ever notice the FCC and/or Industry Canada stickers on modems sold here? Japan has its own equivalent, and my guess is that the modem you're sending isn't certified for there. At very least, get your friend to see if the exact same AOpen model is available for sale in Japan, and what it would cost. Maybe it'll be worth your while, maybe not. I have no idea how much duty is charged on tech stuff sent to Japan from here; it's certainly not a free-trade deal. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 16:53:30 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:53:30 -0400 Subject: Dovecot configuration Message-ID: Hi guys and girls I am trying to set up dovecot, but I am in the dark at one of its configuration, for the moment. In a nutshell, I have no idea where dovecot pull the mails from. This is necessary as I want to point this directory to SMTP server data directory. I was looking looking for a line like this ?DocumentRoot "/var/www/html"? from the apache configuration file. From the dovecot configuration file, these are the only line that look close, but I am not sure about them # Base directory where to store runtime data. #base_dir = /var/run/dovecot/ I suspect this can not be it, as data disappear after dovecot demon is killed The other possibility was # Directory where authentication process places authentication UNIX sockets # which login needs to be able to connect to. The sockets are created when # running as root, so you don't have to worry about permissions. Note that # everything in this directory is deleted when Dovecot is started. login_dir = /var/run/dovecot-login Now, what do I say about this. In hobble opinion, this is also a run time repository as can be infered from this like, ?authentication process places authentication unix sockets?. Finally, I am working under this assumption. Sendmail and imap have to share the mail directory. Is this assumption correct? Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 19:03:06 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:03:06 -0400 Subject: raggle aggregator In-Reply-To: <20061009152946.GB16445-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10610082255h232058f3sdc3b912e1bf42dcc@mail.gmail.com> <20061009152946.GB16445@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10610101203x658cab7ck3ff95cc2add263f9@mail.gmail.com> On 10/9/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 01:55:19AM -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote > > > 'browser' => ['/usr/bin/firefox'], > > 'browser_cmd' => ['${browser}', 'openurl(%s, new-tab)'], > > I believe the 'openurl(%s, new-tab)' syntax has been deprecated. Thanks Walter... I commented out any mention of the browser in Raggle's config.rb, and simply entered: 'browser_cmd' => ['/usr/bin/firefox', '%s'], ...and it works! Hitting [enter] on news entries opens a new tab in Firefox, as desired. Thanks! -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 19:40:43 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:40:43 -0400 Subject: Prison for bill ? Message-ID: <1160509243.4315.256.camel@stan64.site> http://news.com.com/Investor+outlines+SCO-Microsoft +link/2100-7344_3-6124125.html well at a min. hopefully IBM launches what could easily be a 100's billions of dollar law suit at MS over this, especially if more incriminating evidence comes out. Like to see a high level at MS do some time over this however. happy days are close by, (fingers crossed) -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 19:49:07 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:49:07 -0400 Subject: Prison for bill ? In-Reply-To: <1160509243.4315.256.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1160509243.4315.256.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <452BF933.6030403@alteeve.com> ted leslie wrote: > http://news.com.com/Investor+outlines+SCO-Microsoft > +link/2100-7344_3-6124125.html > > well at a min. hopefully IBM launches what could easily be a 100's > billions of dollar law suit at MS over this, > especially if more incriminating evidence comes out. > Like to see a high level at MS do some time over this however. > > happy days are close by, > > (fingers crossed) I'm not holding my breath. IBM would be lucky to get much more than a slap on the wrist against Microsoft. They'll probably use it as leverage in back-room bargaining and we'll never hear a word more about it. Yes, I am cynical, why do you ask? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 19:55:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:55:50 +0000 Subject: Prison for bill ? In-Reply-To: <452BF933.6030403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1160509243.4315.256.camel@stan64.site> <452BF933.6030403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 10/10/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > http://news.com.com/Investor+outlines+SCO-Microsoft > > +link/2100-7344_3-6124125.html > > > > well at a min. hopefully IBM launches what could easily be a 100's > > billions of dollar law suit at MS over this, > > especially if more incriminating evidence comes out. > > Like to see a high level at MS do some time over this however. > > > > happy days are close by, > > > > (fingers crossed) > > I'm not holding my breath. IBM would be lucky to get much more than a > slap on the wrist against Microsoft. They'll probably use it as leverage > in back-room bargaining and we'll never hear a word more about it. The movement of MSFT people *out* of the front lines is also likely to have some 'mitigating effects.' The people responsible for the evils of the "bad old days" are retiring and such, and are no longer responsible for things. Over time, that does make it more difficult to pursue matters. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 20:21:39 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:21:39 -0700 Subject: Prison for bill ? In-Reply-To: <1160509243.4315.256.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1160509243.4315.256.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <452C00D3.9040600@mathstat.yorku.ca> ted leslie wrote: > http://news.com.com/Investor+outlines+SCO-Microsoft+link/2100-7344_3-6124125.html > > well at a min. hopefully IBM launches what could easily be a 100's > billions of dollar law suit at MS over this, > especially if more incriminating evidence comes out. > Like to see a high level at MS do some time over this however. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't actually see anything illegal in the reported behavior, particularly in a criminal sense. How would a criminal complaint actually read? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 20:32:21 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:32:21 -0400 Subject: Prison for bill ? In-Reply-To: <452C00D3.9040600-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <1160509243.4315.256.camel@stan64.site> <452C00D3.9040600@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1160512341.2555.24.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 13:21 -0700, Mike Oliver wrote: > I'm not a lawyer, but I don't actually see anything illegal > in the reported behavior, particularly in a criminal sense. > How would a criminal complaint actually read? I'm not a lawyer either, whew, that felt good. My guess is that this particular piece is simply more evidence that Microsoft is not playing fairly. Maybe it's time to revisit the anti-trust penalties. Did this occur before or after the anti-trust judgement? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 20:49:51 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Prison for bill ? In-Reply-To: <452C00D3.9040600-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <452C00D3.9040600@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20061010204951.82486.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Mike Oliver wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > http://news.com.com/Investor+outlines+SCO-Microsoft+link/2100-7344_3-6124125.html > > > > well at a min. hopefully IBM launches what could > easily be a 100's > > billions of dollar law suit at MS over this, > > especially if more incriminating evidence comes > out. > > Like to see a high level at MS do some time over > this however. > > I'm not a lawyer, but I don't actually see anything > illegal > in the reported behavior, particularly in a criminal > sense. > How would a criminal complaint actually read? I am also not a lawyer, never mind one familiar with US law. Still, I don't see anything here that could result in a CRIMINAL case. Yes, Baystar MIGHT be able to sue Microsoft for not keeping to their verbal promises (a tough road to follow that). Yes, IBM, Novell, Red Hat and Autozone MIGHT be able to sue Microsoft for their actions. But, when all the dust settles, worst case, very worst case for Microsoft would I suspect be: - Microsoft pays Baystar, IBM, etc. tens of millions of dollars. For a firm with tens of billions of dollars in the bank this is no big deal. - Various government regulators take a greater interest in Microsoft's actions, and gets Microsoft to promise, yet again, not to do this sort of stuff. - One or two munchkins within Microsoft are publicly fired for doing bad things and some other munchkins are brought in to more-or-less do the same stuff... In other words I would be shocked if anyone went to jail over this (we can hope, but it would be the same hope as someone who plays the Lottery...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 21:14:55 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:14:55 -0400 Subject: Dovecot configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1160514895.4358.3.camel@neo> Here is my config if of any help. protocols = imaps listen = [::] disable_plaintext_auth = yes default_mail_env = maildir:%h/.maildir protocol imap { } protocol pop3 { } auth default { mechanisms = plain passdb pam { args = "*" } userdb passwd { } user = root } plugin { } granted i have installed that with gentoo, openssl integrated. I think you'd need to generate ssl certificate somewhere, but thats it. http://homepage.mac.com/pauljlucas/personal/macmini/certs.html use the google, luke, otherwise :) I found debian setups intros, how-tos seem to clear up quite a few misunderstandings. cheers, pavel. ? ???, 10/10/2006 ? 12:53 -0400, Kihara Muriithi ?????: > Hi guys and girls > > I am trying to set up dovecot, but I am in the dark at one of its > configuration, for the moment. In a nutshell, I have no idea where > dovecot pull the mails from. This is necessary as I want to point this > directory to SMTP server data directory. I was looking looking for a > line like this ?DocumentRoot "/var/www/html"? from the apache > configuration file. > From the dovecot configuration file, these are the only line that > look close, but I am not sure about them > > # Base directory where to store runtime data. > #base_dir = /var/run/dovecot/ > I suspect this can not be it, as data disappear after dovecot demon is > killed > > The other possibility was > # Directory where authentication process places authentication UNIX > sockets > # which login needs to be able to connect to. The sockets are created > when > # running as root, so you don't have to worry about permissions. Note > that > # everything in this directory is deleted when Dovecot is started. > login_dir = /var/run/dovecot-login > Now, what do I say about this. In hobble opinion, this is also a run > time repository as can be infered from this like, ?authentication > process places authentication unix sockets?. > Finally, I am working under this assumption. Sendmail and imap have > to share the mail directory. Is this assumption correct? > > Thanks > William > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 20:34:20 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:34:20 -0400 Subject: Prison for Bill Message-ID: <452C03CC.4070406@rogers.com> It's not likely going to happen. Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/) has the Larry Goldfarb declaration. On its face it would appear to be quite damaging, but Microsoft has issued a statement disavowing Mr. Goldfarb's claims. While for most of us any claim by Microsoft is suspect, Mr. Goldfarb doesn't exhibit the stellar reputation one would want in a star witness (http://wallstfolly.typepad.com/wallstfolly/2006/04/baystars_larry_.html) and may actually serve to reinforce Microsoft's stance in the court's eye. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 10 23:36:00 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Prison for Bill In-Reply-To: <452C03CC.4070406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <452C03CC.4070406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50545.207.188.88.64.1160523360.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > It's not likely going to happen. Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/) has > the Larry Goldfarb declaration. On its face it would appear to be quite > damaging, but Microsoft has issued a statement disavowing Mr. Goldfarb's > claims. While for most of us any claim by Microsoft is suspect, Mr. > Goldfarb doesn't exhibit the stellar reputation one would want in a star > witness > (http://wallstfolly.typepad.com/wallstfolly/2006/04/baystars_larry_.html) > and may actually serve to reinforce Microsoft's stance in the court's eye. > Why would Goldfarb invest tens of millions of dollars in SCO on the strength of a *verbal* promise from someone Microsoft? This story reminds me of an acquaintance who recounted that he was doing some sort of dope deal, and the dealer had said 'Give me the money today, I'll give you the stuff tomorrow.' Guess what happened. So Microsoft says to this guy, invest 50 Mil today and we'll back you up tomorrow. Nothing in writing, just our word on it. Hmmn. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 02:27:00 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:27:00 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200610102227.00670.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 10 October 2006 12:37, Robert Brockway wrote: > > In some countries the specific model must be blessed by Telco standards > agency before it is legal to use the device on the local phone network. > Well this seems to be a pretty common warning from youse guys. I will pass it on. I went and bought this modem just to see how it does in Linux, and if he can get the same one there and has problems then perhaps I can help. The AT command set is very limited in the manual, but I'll see if I can get responses to some of the other commands that I have with my old US Robotics unit. > I can't speak for Japan but I personally never connect equipment that is > not verified by the relevant local agency. As I understand it, in the > past phone networks were very sensitive to non-compliant devices (to the > point that it was possible to damage the network by sending voltage spikes > that the network was not designed to cope with). I'm not sure how true > this still is but many national laws can be quite tough on this point. > There doesn't seem to be a way to set the country it is being used in, as Lennart suggested. So this unit may be something that just isn't worth the postage with possible illegality of use. So far the couple of things I sent to him have arrived duty free. He lives in a small city on the west coast and the few city computer shops know nothing other than Windows. As well their selection of equipment is quite limited and very expensive compared to Toronto prices. So far he hasn't found any mail order equipment sellers in Tokyo. Most equipment is only available with Japanese manuals and being a Yank they aren't much help. > Yeah I'm being the voice of doom :) > > Rob I really appreciate all your comments, thanks. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 03:18:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:18:00 -0400 Subject: Japan's Telephone system In-Reply-To: <200610102227.00670.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610101103.23935.mervc@eol.ca> <200610102227.00670.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <452C6268.2050808@telly.org> Merv Curley wrote: > I went and bought this modem just to see how it does in Linux, and if he can > get the same one there and has problems then perhaps I can help. The AT > command set is very limited in the manual, but I'll see if I can get > responses to some of the other commands that I have with my old US Robotics > unit. > FWIW, I found that one of the best *n*x-based modem torture tests available is the HylaFax installation system, which does a fairly elaborate conversation with the modem to see what's supported. While obviously heavy on the faxmodem testing, it does a good job of exercising the good old Hayes command set (as well as the serial port if it's an external). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 05:40:50 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 01:40:50 -0400 Subject: find only works from /root ??? Message-ID: <20061011054050.GA20699@waltdnes.org> I have PS1 (the prompt) set to [machine][user][cwd] I try to find all pdf files in my account... [m3000][waltdnes][~] find /home/waltdnes/ -iname *.pdf find: paths must precede expression Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] Alright, let's try it as root from my regular user directory... [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf find: paths must precede expression Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] Now from /root... [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] cd [m3000][root][~] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf /home/waltdnes/zz/sandvine.pdf /home/waltdnes/zz/google.pdf blah, blah, blah, bunch of files listed... What am I doing wrong? Same syntax, different results!?!? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 05:47:17 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 01:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: find only works from /root ??? In-Reply-To: <20061011054050.GA20699-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011054050.GA20699@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > I have PS1 (the prompt) set to [machine][user][cwd] > > I try to find all pdf files in my account... > > [m3000][waltdnes][~] find /home/waltdnes/ -iname *.pdf > find: paths must precede expression > Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] Quote the pattern to prevent expansion by the shell: find /home/waltdnes/ -iname '*.pdf' > Alright, let's try it as root from my regular user directory... > > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > find: paths must precede expression > Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] > > Now from /root... > > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] cd > [m3000][root][~] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/sandvine.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/google.pdf > blah, blah, blah, bunch of files listed... > > What am I doing wrong? Same syntax, different results!?!? If you don't have any matching files in the current directory, the pattern will be passed unchanged to find. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 12:55:14 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:55:14 -0400 Subject: find only works from /root ??? In-Reply-To: <20061011054050.GA20699-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011054050.GA20699@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <452CE9B2.1010808@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > find: paths must precede expression > Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] > > Now from /root... > > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] cd > [m3000][root][~] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/sandvine.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/google.pdf > blah, blah, blah, bunch of files listed... > > What am I doing wrong? Same syntax, different results!?!? > Hi Walter. I think your problem is in the handling of the wildcard. When you run that command, the shell tries to expand the asterisk before `find` ever sees it. So if you have PDF files in your current directory, their names (not the wildcard) get passed to `find`. There are probably no PDF files in root's home directory -- so when you `cd` there the wildcard isn't expanded, and passed to `find` as you want. Try single quotes around the filename, ie find /home/waltdnes/ -iname '*.pdf' That should work from any directory, forcing `find` to see the wildcard even if you have PDFs in your current directory. HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 12:57:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:57:35 -0400 Subject: find only works from /root ??? In-Reply-To: <20061011054050.GA20699-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011054050.GA20699@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20061011125735.GD30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 01:40:50AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I have PS1 (the prompt) set to [machine][user][cwd] > > I try to find all pdf files in my account... > > [m3000][waltdnes][~] find /home/waltdnes/ -iname *.pdf > find: paths must precede expression > Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] > > Alright, let's try it as root from my regular user directory... > > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > find: paths must precede expression > Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [path...] [expression] > > Now from /root... > > [m3000][root][/home/waltdnes] cd > [m3000][root][~] find /home/waltdnes -iname *.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/sandvine.pdf > /home/waltdnes/zz/google.pdf > blah, blah, blah, bunch of files listed... > > What am I doing wrong? Same syntax, different results!?!? As chris said, quote yoru pattern. Right now the shell is expanding *.pdf for you, which means you are actually doing the command: find /home/waltdnes -iname some.pdf someother.pdf yetanother.pdf Since 'someother.pdf yetanother.pdf' makes no sense as arguments to find, it figures they must be directories places too late in the command line, so it gives you the error. The reason it works for you when in /root rather than /home/waltdnes is that there are no pdf files in /root, so the shell can't expand the *.pdf, and hence leaves it alone (giving the same result as it if was quoted). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 15:19:38 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <200610041045.53474.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <450058CC.7010708@telly.org> <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> <200610041045.53474.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Rob Sutherland wrote: > It seemed to more less take a fade...however, I'm still interested in finding > some people to work with, so if anyone wants to start something, let me know > off-list or drop by 216 Beverly St. (Secular Freethought Center) Thursdays > between 5 and 9 pm - I'm running an informal drop in kind of group there for > people interested in learning about FOSS. Tell us more about the informal drop in for learning about FOSS? How long has it been going? Is it every Thrusday? How many people do you usually get? etc Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 16:00:04 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:00:04 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200610041045.53474.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <200610111200.04328.rob@luckdancing.com> On Wednesday 11 October 2006 11:19, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > Center) Thursdays between 5 and 9 pm - I'm running an informal drop in > > kind of group there for people interested in learning about FOSS. > > Tell us more about the informal drop in for learning about FOSS? How long > has it been going? Is it every Thrusday? How many people do you usually > get? etc Let's see - I wandered into this group after attending a Flying Spaghetti Monster dinner with the Pastafarians about three months ago. Since then I've been drafted as a tech support guy (Rob! The internet's down!) for this thing, setting up recycled systems, passing out livecd's and talking up FOSS in general and things like Civicspace in particular. Thursday evenings is my watch, so to speak, at the building and since I was there anyway, I've been encouraging people to drop in at that time and help with the systems, ask questions etc. Right now it's fairly small, 2 or 3 or 5 people, mainly non-techies who want to find out some basics and a couple of guys who like messign around with hardware. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 16:02:23 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:02:23 -0400 Subject: Linux visionary Ray Noorda dies Oct. 9, 2006 Message-ID: <1160582543.3889.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Ray Noorda, a giant of the computer industry, died October 9 of Alzheimer's-related illness. It was my pleasure to know Mr. Noorda during his best days, when, as CEO of Novell Inc., he took an obscure network operating system, NetWare, and turned it into the first major PC network OS. http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS9370964474.html -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 16:46:32 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:46:32 -0400 Subject: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER Message-ID: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> I got this from another Linux DL I am on.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina "Nenasha" Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson Street, according to police. The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina Reiser's body. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 17:01:11 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:01:11 -0400 Subject: Linux visionary Ray Noorda dies Oct. 9, 2006 In-Reply-To: <1160582543.3889.2.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1160582543.3889.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <452D2357.7000708@vianet.ca> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >Ray Noorda, a giant of the computer industry, died October 9 of >Alzheimer's-related illness. It was my pleasure to know Mr. Noorda >during his best days, when, as CEO of Novell Inc., he took an obscure >network operating system, NetWare, and turned it into the first major PC >network OS. > >http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS9370964474.html > > > That was well-written, tasteful, and made the man interesting to someone (me) who's never heard of him. CHris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 18:31:21 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:31:21 -0400 Subject: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER In-Reply-To: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Speaking of reiserfs it's interesting to note that SuSE is considering dropping it as the default filesystem. Apparently, reiserfs (3) might be quite a poor choice for any high traffic filesystem ... see message posted at http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2006-09/msg00542.html On Wednesday 11 October 2006 12:46, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I got this from another Linux DL I am on.. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser > > > > > Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina > "Nenasha" Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she > vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. > > Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with > investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified > people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson > Street, according to police. > > The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter > Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal > specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a > search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. > Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. > > Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would > arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina > Reiser's body. > -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 18:36:45 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:36:45 -0700 Subject: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER In-Reply-To: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <452D39BD.50407@mathstat.yorku.ca> Just a nit here -- the police don't file charges; prosecutors do. I assume that's true in Canada as well? (In the States, charges are "filed" rather than "lain".) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 18:46:50 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:46:50 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share Message-ID: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72@node1.freeyourmachine.org> I've got someone's Windows box here for a cleaup, and for some reason it cannot access the public share on my Debian server. I can access the share without a user or pass from my Linux box, and my smb.conf looks (to me) like it should allow full access: # A publicly accessible directory [public] comment = Public path = /home/samba/public read only = no writable = yes create mask = 0644 directory mask = 755 browseable = yes public = yes guest ok = yes # force user = name_of_my_main_user_ID # force group = users Is there anything else I should be looking for? Thanks! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: I must be a robot. Why else would human women refuse to date me? Leela: Oh, lots of reasons. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:03:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:03:50 +0000 Subject: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER In-Reply-To: <200610111431.21681.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 10/11/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Speaking of reiserfs it's interesting to note that SuSE is considering > dropping it as the default filesystem. > > Apparently, reiserfs (3) might be quite a poor choice for any high traffic > filesystem ... see message posted at > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2006-09/msg00542.html Well, the "neat choice" would be version 4; the development team largely ceased maintaining version 3 in favor of getting functionality into the newer version. There's something understandable about that: it's way more fun to see about enhancing the new thing than to go through the much more boring task of making the old one stable. Unfortunately, if I can't trust Reiser3 not to eat my files, that's not going to incline me towards Reiser4... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:04:28 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:04:28 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <452D403C.2010904@alteeve.com> JoeHill wrote: > I've got someone's Windows box here for a cleaup, and for some reason it cannot > access the public share on my Debian server. I can access the share without a > user or pass from my Linux box, and my smb.conf looks (to me) like it should > allow full access: > > # A publicly accessible directory > [public] > comment = Public > path = /home/samba/public > read only = no > writable = yes > create mask = 0644 > directory mask = 755 > browseable = yes > public = yes > guest ok = yes > # force user = name_of_my_main_user_ID > # force group = users > > Is there anything else I should be looking for? > > Thanks! > Here is my smb.conf on my Debian machine... I haven't had any troubles. Have you added a user to 'smbpasswd'? -=-=-=- [global] workgroup = workgroup netbios name = akane log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m max log size = 1024 socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192 printcap name = /etc/printcap os level = 33 dns proxy = No hosts allow = 10.42.124., 127., 192.168. printing = cups print command = lpq command = %p lprm command = wins support = no [printers] comment = PDC Printers path = /var/spool/cups printer admin = root guest ok = Yes printable = Yes use client driver = Yes browseable = No [share] comment = Maddy's Share path = /home/digimer/Share read only = No create mask = 0777 directory mask = 0777 guest ok = Yes -=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:11:18 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:11:18 -0400 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200610111511.19799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 11 October 2006 15:03, Christopher Browne wrote: > Unfortunately, if I can't trust Reiser3 not to eat my files, that's > not going to incline me towards Reiser4... Haven't had that happen personally and I've had some pretty heavily loaded stuff, used online resizing a lot, etc. Out of curiousity what filesystem do you use to store your larger postgresql databases on? P.S. Thanks for doing the talk last night, very informative. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:07:59 2006 From: tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tim Goodaire) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:07:59 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <76d625fd0610111207h7304448h94e0597264a6fe5c@mail.gmail.com> On 10/11/06, JoeHill wrote: > > > I've got someone's Windows box here for a cleaup, and for some reason it > cannot > access the public share on my Debian server. I can access the share > without a > user or pass from my Linux box, and my smb.conf looks (to me) like it > should > allow full access: > > # A publicly accessible directory > [public] > comment = Public > path = /home/samba/public > read only = no > writable = yes > create mask = 0644 > directory mask = 755 > browseable = yes > public = yes > guest ok = yes > # force user = name_of_my_main_user_ID > # force group = users > > Is there anything else I should be looking for? What do the samba logs say? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:25:57 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:25:57 +0000 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: <200610111511.19799.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200610111511.19799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 10/11/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wednesday 11 October 2006 15:03, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > Unfortunately, if I can't trust Reiser3 not to eat my files, that's > > not going to incline me towards Reiser4... > > Haven't had that happen personally and I've had some pretty heavily loaded > stuff, used online resizing a lot, etc. I actually haven't been bitten, but there have been bug reports out there... > Out of curiousity what filesystem do you use to store your larger postgresql > databases on? Sigh. JFS2. Which hasn't been ported to Linux... I have seen data loss on unclean shutdown (where loss is liable to be pretty total :-() with all of: - JFS 1 - XFS - Ext3 I'm most inclined to use ext3 for databases, as that's the most mature *and* most actively worked on filesystem. IBM actually sponsors the team that's working on ext3, which might seem a mite ironic... And I'm not sure what has survived of SGI to support XFS... > P.S. Thanks for doing the talk last night, very informative. I hope it was useful. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:47:26 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:47:26 -0400 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: <200610111511.19799.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200610111511.19799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420610111247o3198bfe4k53f15571cbfd7277@mail.gmail.com> > Haven't had that happen personally and I've had some pretty heavily loaded > stuff, used online resizing a lot, etc. Just to add a counterpoint, I have had a personal experience with ReiserFS failing. My distro of choice is Gentoo, which meant a boat-load of compiling when they upgraded to GCC 4.1.1. My (small) laptop harddrive filled up during a recompile of GCC itself, and it hosed the file system. I had to fsck --rebuild-tree, or something (I forget the exact command line). Fortunately, the only files I lost were temporary compiler output for the upgrade I was in the middle of, but it did prompt me to make a back-up of my wedding and honeymoon photos. I'm still using ReiserFS because, so far, the only problems I've had have been when the file system is either completely full or very nearly so and I've heard rumblings that these are edge cases for any file system. Now, I'm more diligent about leaving some free space lying around. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 19:57:41 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:57:41 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> From the start-run dialog box, type: \\debian_name If it doesn't prompt for user/password, replace the name with IP and repeat If still fails, look for firewalls especially Norton Internet Security. Disable if found. Repeat. What happens? D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Wed Oct 11 14:46:50 2006 Subject: [TLUG]: Can't Access Public Samba Share I've got someone's Windows box here for a cleaup, and for some reason it cannot access the public share on my Debian server. I can access the share without a user or pass from my Linux box, and my smb.conf looks (to me) like it should allow full access: # A publicly accessible directory [public] comment = Public path = /home/samba/public read only = no writable = yes create mask = 0644 directory mask = 755 browseable = yes public = yes guest ok = yes # force user = name_of_my_main_user_ID # force group = users Is there anything else I should be looking for? Thanks! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: I must be a robot. Why else would human women refuse to date me? Leela: Oh, lots of reasons. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:09:45 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in Open Source? Message-ID: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have received a green light from the editor of Tux Magazine to do a series of articles on people in the Linux/open source community that the newcomers to the field likely don't know, but ought to. In short order I was able to put together a list of 24 names (i.e. 2 years worth of articles). On that list of names there was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, I would like the list to have at least a few more women and I am looking for ideas. The women in question have to have had (and/or are having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open source, and would have to be someone who could do a short e-mailed interview. Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:14:00 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:14:00 -0400 Subject: Mailscanner and spamassassin Message-ID: <20061011201400.GA29195@watson-wilson.ca> I'm having a devil of time configuring mailscanner to use bayes spamassassin history from another server. I copied these files to this server: ettin:/etc/MailScanner# ls -al /home/filter/.spamassassin total 10320 drwx------ 2 postfix filter 4096 2006-10-09 14:47 . drwxr-xr-x 3 postfix filter 4096 2006-10-08 10:56 .. -rw------- 1 postfix filter 5234688 2006-10-08 09:01 auto-whitelist -rw------- 1 postfix filter 6 2006-10-08 09:01 auto-whitelist.mutex -rw------- 1 postfix filter 1068 2006-10-09 10:22 bayes.mutex -rw------- 1 postfix filter 2613248 2006-10-08 09:01 bayes_seen -rw-rw-rw- 1 postfix filter 5230592 2006-10-09 10:22 bayes_toks -rw-r--r-- 1 postfix filter 1175 2005-03-26 12:04 user_prefs I told mailscanner where to find these files: bayes_path /home/filter/.spamassassin/bayes in spam.assassin.prefs.conf. However, it seems that these rules are being ignored as the amount of SPAM am getting is much higher than when I was using these files on another system just last week. Can anyone offer some advice? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 3 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:28:12 2006 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:28:12 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <452D53DC.6010606@utoronto.ca> Just a few famous names that pop to mind: Telsa Gwyne (GNOME contributor, married to Alan Cox) Deb Richardson (founder of LinuxChix.org) Jenn Vesperman (current coordinator of LinuxChix.org) Also of up-and-coming interest: Clare So (GNOME WSOP participant and local CS student) I hope this helps. Sadly, there really aren't that many but there are a number of efforts to improve the situation. GNOME, Fedora and others have programs which are aiming to improve female participation in Open Source. Cheers, Marcus Colin McGregor wrote: > I have received a green light from the editor of Tux > Magazine to do a series of articles on people in the > Linux/open source community that the newcomers to the > field likely don't know, but ought to. In short order > I was able to put together a list of 24 names (i.e. 2 > years worth of articles). On that list of names there > was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, > I would like the list to have at least a few more > women and I am looking for ideas. > > The women in question have to have had (and/or are > having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open > source, and would have to be someone who could do a > short e-mailed interview. > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:32:49 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:32:49 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200610111632.50091.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Valerie Henson, not sure how large her contribution is code wise but I've read a fair amount of stuff from her in the last few months ... see http://lwn.net/Articles/196292/ as a starting point for research. On Wednesday 11 October 2006 16:09, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have received a green light from the editor of Tux > Magazine to do a series of articles on people in the > Linux/open source community that the newcomers to the > field likely don't know, but ought to. In short order > I was able to put together a list of 24 names (i.e. 2 > years worth of articles). On that list of names there > was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, > I would like the list to have at least a few more > women and I am looking for ideas. > > The women in question have to have had (and/or are > having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open > source, and would have to be someone who could do a > short e-mailed interview. > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:53:45 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:53:45 -0400 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: <200610111511.19799.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200610111511.19799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20061011205345.GE30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 03:11:18PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Haven't had that happen personally and I've had some pretty heavily loaded > stuff, used online resizing a lot, etc. > > Out of curiousity what filesystem do you use to store your larger postgresql > databases on? > > P.S. Thanks for doing the talk last night, very informative. Having had reiserfs3 corrupt files on me, and XFS crash with OOM problems (which I believe were fixed in later 2.6 kernels), I am sticking with ext3, which so far hasn't given me problems even when I do stupid things (like terminate a resize part way through when a cisco pix dropped my ssh connection). I just can't see reiserfs4's new features as anything I care about. ext3devel/ext4 on the other hand is actually adding stuff I can imagine being useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 20:58:42 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:58:42 -0400 Subject: Mailscanner and spamassassin In-Reply-To: <20061011201400.GA29195-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011201400.GA29195@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1160600322.2555.109.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 16:14 -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm having a devil of time configuring mailscanner to use bayes > spamassassin history from another server. I copied these files to this > server: > > ettin:/etc/MailScanner# ls -al /home/filter/.spamassassin > total 10320 > drwx------ 2 postfix filter 4096 2006-10-09 14:47 . > drwxr-xr-x 3 postfix filter 4096 2006-10-08 10:56 .. > -rw------- 1 postfix filter 5234688 2006-10-08 09:01 auto-whitelist > -rw------- 1 postfix filter 6 2006-10-08 09:01 auto-whitelist.mutex > -rw------- 1 postfix filter 1068 2006-10-09 10:22 bayes.mutex > -rw------- 1 postfix filter 2613248 2006-10-08 09:01 bayes_seen > -rw-rw-rw- 1 postfix filter 5230592 2006-10-09 10:22 bayes_toks > -rw-r--r-- 1 postfix filter 1175 2005-03-26 12:04 user_prefs > > I told mailscanner where to find these files: > bayes_path /home/filter/.spamassassin/bayes in spam.assassin.prefs.conf. > However, it seems that these rules are being ignored as the amount of > SPAM am getting is much higher than when I was using these files on > another system just last week. Those files are db formats. Any chance they need to be updated? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 21:19:34 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:19:34 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <20061011171934.1429880e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:57:41 -0400 Dave Bour got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > If it doesn't prompt for user/password, replace the name with IP and repeat > If still fails, look for firewalls especially Norton Internet Security. > Disable if found. Repeat. What happens? I got it to prompt for a password, but not user. It's Win98, so it doesn't have the 'connect as' capability, AFAICT. I did a google search and found these bits to change/add in my smb.conf security = share workgroup = WORKGROUP It worked like a charm. Sorry, should always Google before I ask :P I'm not sure that's a good setting, tho, is that less secure? I'm behind a firewall so I don't think anyone could access the share from outside... Thanks for the reply! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Zoidberg: "Hooray, I'm useful. I'm having a wonderful time." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 21:23:38 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:23:38 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061011212338.5B1BE75377@sarg.ryerson.ca> There are quite a few women heavily involved in Wikipedia in a variety of roles. You might also follow up on http://www.misbehaving.net/2006/09/attracting_wome.html and associated links, including a link to "Women 2.0" conference ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 21:51:28 2006 From: gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:51:28 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061011175128.aaf60372.gstrom@eol.ca> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Colin McGregor wrote: > I have received a green light from the editor of Tux > Magazine to do a series of articles on people in the > Linux/open source community that the newcomers to the > field likely don't know, but ought to. In short order > I was able to put together a list of 24 names (i.e. 2 > years worth of articles). On that list of names there > was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, > I would like the list to have at least a few more > women and I am looking for ideas. > > The women in question have to have had (and/or are > having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open > source, and would have to be someone who could do a > short e-mailed interview. > You might consider subscribing to the Linuxchix Issues mail list and asking for input there. http://linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/issues If you don't want to subscribe, you could contact Jenn Vesperman, the Co-ordinator of Linuxchix (who may also be a good person to interview). jenn-ymGZuNHEuIyhPH1hqNUYSQ at public.gmane.org -- Glen Strom gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 23:14:11 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:14:11 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011212338.5B1BE75377-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061011212338.5B1BE75377@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610111614x24efdcfcqffcf6ac6494ae05d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/11/06, Dave Mason wrote: [...] > You might also follow up on > http://www.misbehaving.net/2006/09/attracting_wome.html > and associated links, including a link to "Women 2.0" conference Hrmm... You mean to say that ladies are upgrading before the fellas? Uh-oh. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 11 23:25:31 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:25:31 -0400 Subject: Mailscanner and spamassassin In-Reply-To: <1160600322.2555.109.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011201400.GA29195@watson-wilson.ca> <1160600322.2555.109.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20061011232531.GA32314@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 04:58:42PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > Those files are db formats. Any chance they need to be updated? Interesting. How would I do that? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 3 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 00:09:45 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:09:45 -0400 Subject: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER In-Reply-To: <452D39BD.50407-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <452D39BD.50407@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <005c01c6ed92$ba153d00$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> I have no idea, I am not a lawyer.. I just snipped the subject from the CBS headline http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2006/10/10/n/HeadlineNews/REISER-H OMICIDE/resources_bcn_html > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Oliver > Sent: October 11, 2006 2:37 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: POLICE CHARGE HANS REISER WITH MURDER > > Just a nit here -- the police don't file charges; prosecutors > do. I assume that's true in Canada as well? (In the States, > charges are "filed" rather than "lain".) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 00:45:13 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:45:13 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <452D403C.2010904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <452D403C.2010904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061011204513.46dfd74a@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:04:28 -0400 Madison Kelly got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Here is my smb.conf on my Debian machine... I haven't had any troubles. Hmmm, looks pretty much the same as mine, except for the netbios name. I ended up adding: security = share workgroup = WORKGROUP ...which let the Windows 98 machine in to Public, but now seems to have locked me out of mounting my own *home* dir on the server from my Linux desktop :P Hopefully when I switch those back... > Have you added a user to 'smbpasswd'? Hmmm, no, I just assumed that since it was a public share open to 'guests' that a password would not be necessary. So I would run smbpasswd on the server to add the username from the Win box? What if the password is blank, as is almost always the case on Win boxes? ;) BTW, anyone else notice it takes a long time for their posts to make it back from the list? My original post didn't show up here until long after Dave Bour's reply, and my reply to him has as yet not come back to me... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Zapp: The spirit is willing but the flesh is spongey and bruised. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 00:50:46 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:50:46 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <76d625fd0610111207h7304448h94e0597264a6fe5c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011144650.7f5dbc72@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <76d625fd0610111207h7304448h94e0597264a6fe5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061011205046.57694411@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:07:59 -0400 Tim Goodaire got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > What do the samba logs say? Nothing I would understand, unfortunately ;) [2006/10/11 14:30:04, 0] printing/pcap.c:pcap_cache_reload(149) Unable to open printcap file /etc/printcap for read! [2006/10/11 14:30:04, 0] printing/pcap.c:pcap_cache_reload(149) Unable to open printcap file /etc/printcap for read! [2006/10/11 14:43:05, 0] printing/pcap.c:pcap_cache_reload(149) Unable to open printcap file /etc/printcap for read! [2006/10/11 14:43:05, 0] printing/pcap.c:pcap_cache_reload(149) Unable to open printcap file /etc/printcap for read! [2006/10/11 15:06:29, 0] passdb/pdb_tdb.c:tdb_update_sam(659) Unable to modify TDB passwd ! Error: Record exists occured while storing the RID index (RID_000001f5) [2006/10/11 15:06:29, 1] auth/auth_sam.c:check_sam_security(291) Failed to modify entry. [2006/10/11 15:06:29, 1] smbd/service.c:make_connection_snum(642) johndoli (192.168.0.7) connect to service public initially as user guest (uid=1002, gid=1002) (pid 24549) [2006/10/11 15:35:18, 1] smbd/service.c:close_cnum(830) johndoli (192.168.0.7) closed connection to service public [2006/10/11 15:40:10, 0] smbd/service.c:make_connection(794) johndoli (192.168.0.7) couldn't find service homes.url [2006/10/11 15:40:14, 1] smbd/service.c:make_connection_snum(642) johndoli (192.168.0.7) connect to service public initially as user guest (uid=1002, gid=1002) (pid 24707) [2006/10/11 16:28:14, 1] smbd/service.c:close_cnum(830) johndoli (192.168.0.7) closed connection to service public [2006/10/11 19:49:39, 1] smbd/service.c:make_connection_snum(642) johndoli (192.168.0.7) connect to service public initially as user guest (uid=1002, gid=1002) (pid 25458) [2006/10/11 19:49:39, 1] smbd/service.c:close_cnum(830) johndoli (192.168.0.7) closed connection to service public [2006/10/11 19:54:58, 1] smbd/service.c:make_connection_snum(642) johndoli (192.168.0.7) connect to service public initially as user guest (uid=1002, gid=1002) (pid 25479) [2006/10/11 19:59:11, 1] smbd/service.c:close_cnum(830) johndoli (192.168.0.7) closed connection to service public Looks like Samba was willing, but Windows wouldn't put out? :D -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Hold Still, I don't have good depth perception! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 04:32:10 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 00:32:10 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200610120032.10966.rob@luckdancing.com> On Wednesday 11 October 2006 16:09, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have received a green light from the editor of Tux > Magazine to do a series of articles on people in the > Linux/open source community that the newcomers to the > field likely don't know, but ought to. In short order > I was able to put together a list of 24 names (i.e. 2 > years worth of articles). On that list of names there > was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, > I would like the list to have at least a few more > women and I am looking for ideas. How about Dru Lavigne (sp) - http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/unix/bsd/archives/women-in-open-source-6968 Avril's geeky sister :-) Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 12:53:15 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:53:15 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft - One Week - Introduction to JavaScript Message-ID: <1160657595.27940.11.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Thursday, October 19, 2007 at 7:00 pm at the Linux Caffe. Please email a confirmation if you are planning to attend so I can pass along accurate numbers to the Caffe. Attendance is free but you'll have to pay for your own eats. Presentation topic: "Introduction to JavaScript". Ken will present an overview of the strengths and weaknesses of JavaScript, discuss it's importance to web development and will give some examples of techniques that all web developers should know. For more information about PegaSoft monthly dinner meetings, including directions, please visit http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html PegaSoft members meet at regular dinner meetings to discuss the latest trends and opportunities in Linux and work together to develop great new Linux software. Our goal is to act both as a programmer resource and to promote projects developed by our members. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 13:29:42 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:29:42 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011212338.5B1BE75377-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061011212338.5B1BE75377@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20061012132942.GF30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 05:23:38PM -0400, Dave Mason wrote: > There are quite a few women heavily involved in Wikipedia in a variety of roles. Not sure I would necesarily be proud of that. :) > You might also follow up on > http://www.misbehaving.net/2006/09/attracting_wome.html > and associated links, including a link to "Women 2.0" conference -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 13:31:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:31:12 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <20061011171934.1429880e-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <20061011171934.1429880e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061012133112.GG30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 05:19:34PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I got it to prompt for a password, but not user. It's Win98, so it doesn't have > the 'connect as' capability, AFAICT. Win98/95 always connects as whatever user you are logged in as. Perhaps using the 'net' command line tool would let you add a username. > I did a google search and found these bits to change/add in my smb.conf > > security = share > workgroup = WORKGROUP > > It worked like a charm. Sorry, should always Google before I ask :P > > I'm not sure that's a good setting, tho, is that less secure? I'm behind a > firewall so I don't think anyone could access the share from outside... It's just a different way to do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 15:00:06 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:00:06 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> Haskell Guru Audrey Tang? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:16:19 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:16:19 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <452E5876.8090605-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Dannis Hard Drive http://www.danni.com runs Linux. ;) :O On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:00 -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Haskell Guru Audrey Tang? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Mommy, Daddy the email says something I don't want to read. That ok just move to the next one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:43:02 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:43:02 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <452E8AA4.20707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> OOPs. It's one of the most popular adult sites on the net. I assumed everyone knew who she was...sorry. What the heck is "NSFW!:P" is that a Unix command?. >From Netcraft: http://www.danni.com was running Apache on Linux when last queried at 12-Oct-2006 08:32:18 GMT - refresh now Site Report Linux Apache/1.3.34 (Unix) PHP/4.4.1 mod_perl/1.29 mod_ssl/2.8.25 OpenSSL/0.9.7i 4-Oct-2006 208.184.157.18 RickT ;) On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 14:34 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Dannis Hard Drive http://www.danni.com runs Linux. ;) :O > > Gak! Label things as NSFW! :p I normally just blindly trust that links > on TLUG are safe for work. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "I wonder what's going to happen next" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:34:12 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:34:12 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <1160676980.3932.1.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Dannis Hard Drive http://www.danni.com runs Linux. ;) :O Gak! Label things as NSFW! :p I normally just blindly trust that links on TLUG are safe for work. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:56:49 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:56:49 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <1160678582.3932.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1160679409.2555.138.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 14:43 -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > OOPs. It's one of the most popular adult sites on the net. I assumed > everyone knew who she was...sorry. What the heck is "NSFW!:P" is that a > Unix command?. Not suitable for work. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:31:30 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > The women in question have to have had (and/or are > having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open > source, and would have to be someone who could do a > short e-mailed interview. I suggest Pia Waugh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pia_Waugh). She's been a real power-house for Software Freedom Day. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 18:54:03 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:54:03 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <1160678582.3932.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <452E8F4B.3050108@alteeve.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > OOPs. It's one of the most popular adult sites on the net. I assumed > everyone knew who she was...sorry. What the heck is "NSFW!:P" is that a > Unix command?. Heh, I'm not into girls (being one) so I didn't recognize it. :p NSFW = Not Safe For Work. I'm sure it's a *nix command for something, somehwere. :D Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 19:23:24 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:23:24 -0400 Subject: Mailscanner and spamassassin In-Reply-To: <20061011232531.GA32314-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011201400.GA29195@watson-wilson.ca> <1160600322.2555.109.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20061011232531.GA32314@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1160681004.2555.148.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 19:25 -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 04:58:42PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > Those files are db formats. Any chance they need to be updated? > > Interesting. How would I do that? sa-learn --import -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 21:38:36 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:38:36 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <20061012133112.GG30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <20061011171934.1429880e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061012133112.GG30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061012173836.06b982f0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:31:12 -0400 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > I got it to prompt for a password, but not user. It's Win98, so it doesn't > > have the 'connect as' capability, AFAICT. > > Win98/95 always connects as whatever user you are logged in as. Perhaps > using the 'net' command line tool would let you add a username. > > > I did a google search and found these bits to change/add in my smb.conf > > > > security = share > > workgroup = WORKGROUP > > > > It worked like a charm. Sorry, should always Google before I ask :P > > > > I'm not sure that's a good setting, tho, is that less secure? I'm behind a > > firewall so I don't think anyone could access the share from outside... > > It's just a different way to do it. Cool. So futzing around with that crappy Win98...thing...ended up being a valuable Linux learning experience after all. I tells ya, 'Windows Networking' is a freaking oxymoron :-\ Thanks to all who replied! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Is there some way to keep them from breeding? Paul: Cold showers don't work on Antarctic creatures. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 23:04:35 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: References: <002601c6ed54$cfcaad80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200610111431.21681.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200610111511.19799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm most inclined to use ext3 for databases, as that's the most mature > *and* most actively worked on filesystem. IBM actually sponsors the > team that's working on ext3, which might seem a mite ironic... And > I'm not sure what has survived of SGI to support XFS... SGI continue to actively support xfs. The total number of developers is no doubt smaller than ext3 but xfs is a mature filesystem and I've had only a single problem[1] with it in the last 3-4 years that I've used it as my preferred filesystem. Ext3 definitely suffers a performance penalty on large filesystems. I have one 6.5TB filesystem I want to change from Ext3 to xfs for performance reasons. [1] Just recently I accidentally powered off a firewire enclosure at my place while the xfs filesystem was mounted. The filesystem complained of problems and in the end I needed to do an xfs_repair -L but it was then fine. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 23:17:42 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:17:42 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <452E8F4B.3050108-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8F4B.3050108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <452ECD16.1030905@telly.org> > NSFW = Not Safe For Work. Does that phrase refer to the website, or the Microsoft browser that took you there? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 12 23:23:48 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:23:48 -0400 Subject: reiserfs Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E8@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> What does one call a large file system. I've 2 3TB systems running on adaptec hardware raid cards, with lvm2 running reiserfs3 on top of that. Hiccup every 3 - 4 months and I know I got to change but the question is to what And the cost of another raid setup not to mention insufficient power too during the cutover is the next item to contend with Suggestions welcome D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Thu Oct 12 19:04:35 2006 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re: reiserfs On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm most inclined to use ext3 for databases, as that's the most mature > *and* most actively worked on filesystem. IBM actually sponsors the > team that's working on ext3, which might seem a mite ironic... And > I'm not sure what has survived of SGI to support XFS... SGI continue to actively support xfs. The total number of developers is no doubt smaller than ext3 but xfs is a mature filesystem and I've had only a single problem[1] with it in the last 3-4 years that I've used it as my preferred filesystem. Ext3 definitely suffers a performance penalty on large filesystems. I have one 6.5TB filesystem I want to change from Ext3 to xfs for performance reasons. [1] Just recently I accidentally powered off a firewire enclosure at my place while the xfs filesystem was mounted. The filesystem complained of problems and in the end I needed to do an xfs_repair -L but it was then fine. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support at opentrend.net Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 00:11:57 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:11:57 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <452ECD16.1030905-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8F4B.3050108@alteeve.com> <452ECD16.1030905@telly.org> Message-ID: <452ED9CD.8010103@alteeve.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> NSFW = Not Safe For Work. > Does that phrase refer to the website, or the Microsoft browser that > took you there? MS browser??? Heck no, I'm on Debian FTW. :p Madi FTW = For the win! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 01:26:08 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:26:08 -0400 Subject: How You Can Digitally Sign OpenOffice.org Documents Message-ID: <452EEB30.1020509@rogers.com> I thought this might be of interest to both Linux and Windows users of OpenOffice. I haven't tried the Windows instructions, but the Linux ones work fine. One thing to bear in mind, is that the specified EXPORT command should be placed in the users .profile file. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 01:31:31 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:31:31 -0400 Subject: How You Can Digitally Sign OpenOffice.org Documents In-Reply-To: <452EEB30.1020509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <452EEB30.1020509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <452EEC73.3040808@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > I thought this might be of interest to both Linux and Windows users of > OpenOffice. > > > > I haven't tried the Windows instructions, but the Linux ones work fine. > One thing to bear in mind, is that the specified EXPORT command should > be placed in the users .profile file. > I forgot to mention, I got my certificate from -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 14:36:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:36:23 -0400 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E8-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E8@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <20061013143623.GH30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 07:23:48PM -0400, Dave Bour wrote: > What does one call a large file system. > > I've 2 3TB systems running on adaptec hardware raid cards, with lvm2 running reiserfs3 on top of that. Hiccup every 3 - 4 months and I know I got to change but the question is to what > > And the cost of another raid setup not to mention insufficient power too during the cutover is the next item to contend with I know I changed from reiserfs3 to ext3 on every system I dealt with a few years ago due to problems with reiserfs3. I tried XFS a couple of years ago, but ended up having to convert that to ext3 as well due to XFS bugs in 2.6.1-10ish range. I gave up waiting for someone to fix whatever was cousing corruption and out of memory errors and hangs and all that. I think it may have been tracked down by now as having had to do with the size of allocations xfs does in some cases being larger than one page of ram, causing severe memory fragmentation in the kernel and evenrually making it unable to get a single block the size it wanted. I think they no longer allocate large chunks of memory that way in XFS. Unfortunately that turned me of using XFS for a while. I have not tried JFS yet. ext3 works for me though, even if it isn't the fastest or anything. It works, it does ACL, works with NFS, and doesn't seem to break, and if it does have a problem, fsck actually works reliably on ext3 unlike some filesystems I have tried. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 14:43:10 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:43:10 -0400 Subject: reiserfs Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32EC@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> So my reason for originally going REISERfs was the online resize since it seemed I was constantly expanding the raid. Does ext3 now support it? Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Fri Oct 13 10:36:23 2006 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re: reiserfs On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 07:23:48PM -0400, Dave Bour wrote: > What does one call a large file system. > > I've 2 3TB systems running on adaptec hardware raid cards, with lvm2 running reiserfs3 on top of that. Hiccup every 3 - 4 months and I know I got to change but the question is to what > > And the cost of another raid setup not to mention insufficient power too during the cutover is the next item to contend with I know I changed from reiserfs3 to ext3 on every system I dealt with a few years ago due to problems with reiserfs3. I tried XFS a couple of years ago, but ended up having to convert that to ext3 as well due to XFS bugs in 2.6.1-10ish range. I gave up waiting for someone to fix whatever was cousing corruption and out of memory errors and hangs and all that. I think it may have been tracked down by now as having had to do with the size of allocations xfs does in some cases being larger than one page of ram, causing severe memory fragmentation in the kernel and evenrually making it unable to get a single block the size it wanted. I think they no longer allocate large chunks of memory that way in XFS. Unfortunately that turned me of using XFS for a while. I have not tried JFS yet. ext3 works for me though, even if it isn't the fastest or anything. It works, it does ACL, works with NFS, and doesn't seem to break, and if it does have a problem, fsck actually works reliably on ext3 unlike some filesystems I have tried. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 15:55:47 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:55:47 -0400 Subject: reiserfs In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32EC-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32EC@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <20061013155547.GI30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 10:43:10AM -0400, Dave Bour wrote: > So my reason for originally going REISERfs was the online resize since it seemed I was constantly expanding the raid. Does ext3 now support it? With a recent kernel, and an ext3 prepared for online resizing, yes it does apparently. I have not tried it myself since my filesystems were created before this was an option and hence not currently prepared for it. I think tune2fs or something has the option required to modify the filesystem to support online resizing. Might be a mount option. I forget. It has to do some change to the inode table layout to allow changing the size while mounted. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 17:24:00 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Article on Linux on the desktop Message-ID: Aussie focused article but relevant in many ways: http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1555287553&eid=-255 Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 18:35:26 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:35:26 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200610131435.27059.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 11 October 2006 16:09, Colin McGregor wrote: > was one woman, Pamela Jones of groklaw.net fame. Now, > I would like the list to have at least a few more > women and I am looking for ideas. LWN just linked to "Opening doors to open source for women", it's at http://www.itmanagersjournal.com/feature/20990 ... perhaps useful, not that I've read it ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 13 18:45:53 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:45:53 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <20061011200945.55344.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > The women in question have to have had (and/or are > having) a significant impact on Linux and/or open > source, and would have to be someone who could do a > short e-mailed interview. Haven't seen http://women.kde.org/ mentioned anywhere in this thread yet. Might prove a valuable resource? Haven't explored it much myself apart from using it for basic Qt tutorials a while back when I dabbled (briefly) with learning C++. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 01:21:24 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:21:24 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [discuss] The calm before the copyright policy storm. In-Reply-To: <452E5648.6000806-W/cP4liIXzk@public.gmane.org> References: <452E5648.6000806@flora.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610131821r497e8699s86b99c2107bb723c@mail.gmail.com> For some GTALUGgers this might be [OT], for some maybe not. Any thoughts? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russell McOrmond Date: Oct 12, 2006 10:50 AM Subject: [discuss] The calm before the copyright policy storm. To: CLUE general discussion list (Please circulate!) It may seem that we are waiting for a bill to be tabled, and then we all come out of the woodwork to let the government know what we like and dislike about the bill. The problem is, once the bill is tabled, most of the negotiations are over. This means that we should not be waiting, but spending our energy to make sure that our voice is heard now. There are many things people can be doing. We need to make sure that the government realizes that we do not want to take Canada down the same road that the USA has taken. There are many reasons for this, including harm our cultural industries as well as the massive problems that "legal protection for TPMs used by copyright holders" are causing to citizens rights and computer security. We sample letters which you should send to your MP http://www.digital-copyright.ca/letters which mentions the thousands of people who have signed the first petition, the Sony Rootkit issue, as well as the view of an official of the USA's Department of Homeland Security on this issue. Make sure your MP knows you are concerned about this issue! If you only have a little bit of time, sending this letter is something very quick to do. The sample letter asks if the MP is willing to meet you or members of our community, and we can arrange for other people to have that meeting if you didn't have the time. The more time you spend, however, the greater the impact will be on our attempt to protect our rights! The more individual the letter, and more spontaneous your correspondence appears to be, the greater the impact. We have two petitions: The Petition for Users rights which discusses a need for balance between competing interests in Copyright revision http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ The Petition to protect Information Technology Property Rights which states that that it is the owner of computer hardware that should have the legally protected right to choose what software runs on their hardware. http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ Please sign both, and consider going to all your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers or even enemies to get them to sign. It is critically important that it be clear to the government that there is a very large number of Canadians who do not like the direction that copyright revision has been taking, and the petition is a very simple way to do that. If you are part of an association, you may want to convince the executive to endorse the petitions, which will make it easier to get signatures from members of that association! Please also see Michael Geist's 30 Days of DRM: 30 Things You Can Do at http://www.michaelgeist.ca/daysofdrm for more ideas! And for inspiration: The Parallel Politics of the Environment and Copyright http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1477/159/ Thank you! -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition! http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware manufacturers, can pry my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or portable media player from my cold dead hands!" _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list ?@?.ca http://www.linux.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 01:34:35 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:34:35 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [tpm] Cem Kaner Presentation at TASSQ, October 17 In-Reply-To: <01b901c6ee2e$5c75d410$6701a8c0@Koko> References: <01b901c6ee2e$5c75d410$6701a8c0@Koko> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610131834j262affcehcbadc604487c4ff4@mail.gmail.com> Another topic that might be interesting for some people on the list. =) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Bolton Date: Oct 12, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: [tpm] Cem Kaner Presentation at TASSQ, October 17 Sorry for the inbox intrusion, or if you've been notified multiple times, or if it's old news, but I don't want anyone to miss out on this by the misfortune of not hearing about it. Dr. Cem Kaner is arguably most highly respected writer, speaker, and thinker in the field of software testing today. He is the principal author of two of the best-selling testing books in history (Testing Computer Software; Lessons Learned in Software Testing). Through his career that he says focuses on "enhancing the satisfaction and safety of software customers, users, and developers", he has been a test manager, a lawyer, a developer, a consultant, a trainer, and a professor of software engineering. He currently teaches software testing, computer ethics, and test-first Java programming at the Florida Institute of Technology. I'm personally thrilled that he's talking to the Toronto Association of System and Software Quality on the topic of "Software Testing as a Social Science". He will speak as a strong voice for the testing profession and a passionate advocate of tester skill, but he will also have serious warnings about the quality and relevance of testing in a world of increasingly overwhelming complexity, and some suggestions on what we can do to make software better for everyone. The event is at an unusual time of the month for TASSQ. This one is on Tuesday, October 17, (that's this coming Tuesday) at the University of Toronto, Wallberg Building (WB), Room 116, 200 College St. at St. George, in downtown Toronto. The doors open at 6:00pm; Dr. Kaner's presentation begins at 7:00pm. There will be questions and answers. We will also be gathering in a local pub afterwards for further questions and discussion. Registration for the presentation is at http://www.tassq.org. This is an extremely compelling subject for our profession. I would urge anyone who has an interest in software testing and development to attend, and I would ask as a favour that you also please pass the word on to your colleagues by whatever means available. Thank you, ---Michael B. DevelopSense: Software Testing in Plain English Web Site: http://www.developsense.com Newsletter: ?@?.com Blog: http://www.developsense.com/blog.html ================================================= This email appears to originate from the Toronto Perl Mongers Listserver. Listserv : ?@?.?.org Administrative queries: ?@?.?.org -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 06:26:02 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 02:26:02 -0400 Subject: Can't Access Public Samba Share In-Reply-To: <20061012173836.06b982f0-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32E5@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <20061011171934.1429880e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061012133112.GG30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061012173836.06b982f0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061014022602.79645be6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:38:36 -0400 JoeHill got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > It's just a different way to do it. > > Cool. So futzing around with that crappy Win98...thing...ended up being a > valuable Linux learning experience after all. > > I tells ya, 'Windows Networking' is a freaking oxymoron :-\ > > Thanks to all who replied! Okay, I thought I had this all sorted, but I still cannot seem to mount that public share from my desktop without being prompted for a password :-\ According to 'man smbmount': password= specifies the SMB password. If this option is not given then the environment variablePASSWD is used. If it can find no password smbmount will prompt for a passeword, unless the guest option is given. I've tried every option in there, using guest, using my username and pass, everything, but all I get when I do that is: Could not resolve mount point //SERVER1/public However, if I simply: [joehill at node1 ~]$ smbmount //SERVER1/public /home/joehill/mnt/SERVER1/public/ Password: Anonymous login successful [joehill at node1 ~]$ No problemo, except I would rather not have to use a term or LinNeighbourhood every time I wanna mount the thing. I can access my home dir on the server with no difficulty, just: smbmount //SERVER1/homes /home/joehill/mnt/SERVER1/homes/ -o username=joehill%xxxxxxx,fmask=644,dmask=755,uid=500,gid=500,debug=0,workgroup=WORKGROUP ...and I'm in. Help? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Augh, I am so unlucky. I've run over black cats that were luckier than me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 21:34:45 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:34:45 -0400 Subject: [OT] Seeking source language for an article Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610141434s3daa2557t272ad5a4cd221f16@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Just following up on all the follow-up postings on the 'net to last months digg for an Atomic OS story. I'm not sure what language this is, and as a result, I'm having trouble running it through Babelfish. http://wolfwoodscrowd.info/2006/09/17/jos-jedan-os/ I'm working on communicating with communities that don't speak English as a first language, so any help here would be most appreciated. TIA! - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 21:39:06 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:39:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Seeking source language for an article In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610141434s3daa2557t272ad5a4cd221f16-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610141434s3daa2557t272ad5a4cd221f16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061014173906.mvrandjo0co4cg0k@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Scott Elcomb : > I'm not sure what language this is, and as a result, I'm having > trouble running it through Babelfish. > > http://wolfwoodscrowd.info/2006/09/17/jos-jedan-os/ I'll wager a beer on "Croatian". Not one of my languages, personally, but the word "hrvatskog" appears at the top. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 14 22:24:06 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:24:06 -0400 Subject: Women in Open Source? In-Reply-To: <452E8F4B.3050108-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011200945.55344.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <452E5876.8090605@utoronto.ca> <1160676980.3932.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8AA4.20707@alteeve.com> <1160678582.3932.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <452E8F4B.3050108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: s/girls (being one)/porn/ Lucky for me, though, I don't read this email at work, hehe.. On 10/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Heh, I'm not into girls (being one) so I didn't recognize it. :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 15 18:40:23 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:40:23 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> This came in earlier through the CLUE mailing list. I think it was a fairly well put together survey. Government Online Your input and experiences are valuable and will be used as the basis for policy recommendations that ensure that online government services are representative of your needs and inclusive of a diverse Canadian population. No experience with online government web sites or services needed. To complete the online survey, please visit http://arago.cprost.sfu.ca/citizen Additional Information The Centre for Policy Research on Science and Technology at Simon Fraser University is conducting this research to ensure that online government services are inclusive of your needs and that they represent a diversity of people and computing environments in Canada. The only requirement for participation is that: - You live in Canada and use the Internet from home, OR - You are a member of a non-profit, non-governmental organization in Canada. Questions, suggestions, or comments? Please contact us. Dr. Richard Smith Centre for Policy Research on Science and Technology School of Communication Simon Fraser University Email: smith -at- sfu.ca Phone: 604-291-5116 -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 15 20:09:58 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:09:58 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610151609.58806.marc@lijour.net> On October 15, 2006 02:40 pm, Scott Elcomb wrote: > This came in earlier through the CLUE mailing list. I think it was a > fairly well put together survey. > > > Government Online > > Your input and experiences are valuable and will be used > as the basis for policy recommendations that ensure that > online government services are representative of your > needs and inclusive of a diverse Canadian population. > > No experience with online government web sites or > services needed. > > To complete the online survey, please visit > http://arago.cprost.sfu.ca/citizen Excellent one. They ask you if you knew that - operating systems are available for free in the internet - office suites -namely OOo- are available for free in the internet It could be illuminating for some people. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 03:04:11 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:04:11 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <200610151609.58806.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <200610151609.58806.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990610152004h5d5282c8p384591b583e78cca@mail.gmail.com> I liked this survey.. I can answer "I download it from the internet" and "I can, but choose not to pay $500 for that office suite". =) I also saw some good opportunities for mini-rants. Impressive.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 03:05:25 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:05:25 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610152004h5d5282c8p384591b583e78cca-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <200610151609.58806.marc@lijour.net> <1e55af990610152004h5d5282c8p384591b583e78cca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990610152005l5f4256dfpf75f966606eb03fc@mail.gmail.com> > What was the language that you first learned at home in childhood? English > Can you still understand the language that you first learned at home in childhood? I decline to answer ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 07:42:14 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:42:14 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610152005l5f4256dfpf75f966606eb03fc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <200610151609.58806.marc@lijour.net> <1e55af990610152004h5d5282c8p384591b583e78cca@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990610152005l5f4256dfpf75f966606eb03fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <453337D6.6090807@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: >> What was the language that you first learned at home in childhood? > English > >> Can you still understand the language that you first learned at home >> in childhood? > I decline to answer What is your geographical location? How did you hear about this survey? Are you a Linux advocate? Do you froth at the mouth at the mere mention of ms software or iAnything? Are you part of a stark raving mad hurd of penguins out for blood? All potentially useful questions to account for those of us who take it upon ourselves to do the survey based on having heard about it through a lug. I wonder how many other groups will hit up that nice W3C, 508, anybrowser site -- show the government a thing or two about nicely designed compatible sites... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 03:57:09 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:57:09 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: has anyone tried it in lynx ? -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 17:57:10 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:57:10 -0400 Subject: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken Message-ID: I just did a clean isntall from to FC5 (was FC4) and now ypbind doesn't bind to the domain. I have configured /etc/yp.conf exactly like the FC4 system and still won't work. I did a little googling but did't find anything to help resolve the issue. When I start the ypbind service, it doesn't bind to a domain. rpcinfo show the serivce is registered. I looked in /var/log/message and didn't find anything relevant. Any clues would be much appreceated. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 20:53:09 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:53:09 -0400 Subject: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Local Firewall? BTW, how stable is FC5? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Duclos > Sent: October 16, 2006 1:57 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken > > I just did a clean isntall from to FC5 (was FC4) and now ypbind doesn't > bind > to the domain. I have configured /etc/yp.conf exactly like the FC4 system > and still won't work. I did a little googling but did't find anything to > help resolve the issue. When I start the ypbind service, it doesn't bind > to > a domain. rpcinfo show the serivce is registered. I looked in > /var/log/message and didn't find anything relevant. Any clues would be > much > appreceated. > Martin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 21:22:24 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:22:24 -0400 Subject: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken In-Reply-To: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20061016212224.89A2585505@sarg.ryerson.ca> > How stable is FC5? Given that FC5.beta3 is out there, I was expecting pretty stable, but my experience has been other. I was upgrading a ThinkPad from FC3, and it died on the last few packages (*may* have been a media problem) with no "skip this package" option - just "retry" or "reboot". Then my PCMCIA wireless card isn't recognized. Working to fix things tonight... ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 16 22:50:13 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:50:13 -0400 Subject: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken In-Reply-To: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: I have disabled the firewall earlier with no success. Still getting the same error. I tried ypbind -d to see what's happening but I only see the line ping 192.168.2.157 domain mydomain. That appears to loop forever. Local Firewall? BTW, how stable is FC5? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Duclos > Sent: October 16, 2006 1:57 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken > > I just did a clean isntall from to FC5 (was FC4) and now ypbind doesn't > bind > to the domain. I have configured /etc/yp.conf exactly like the FC4 system > and still won't work. I did a little googling but did't find anything to > help resolve the issue. When I start the ypbind service, it doesn't bind > to > a domain. rpcinfo show the serivce is registered. I looked in > /var/log/message and didn't find anything relevant. Any clues would be > much > appreceated. > Martin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pw.armstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 01:21:14 2006 From: pw.armstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:21:14 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> sooooo, my daughter is off to university yes, I've bought her a laptop yes, I've caved, it runs xp but I balked at buying a copy of ms office her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she says she needs ms office do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, is open office good enough? any and all comments appreciated. -peter > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 05:36:11 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:36:11 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45346BCB.9080409@utoronto.ca> PW Armstrong wrote: > > > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office > > her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she says > she needs ms office > > do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, is > open office good enough? > > any and all comments appreciated. U of T at Scarborough sold (maybe still does?) StarOffice for around $20. As someone who just completed my HBA at U of T I can say definitively that ms office is totally unnecessary -- OO saves in .doc, exports to pdf, works with ppt, xls etc. Likely everything she'll need to do in a Humanities context is easily done with OpenOffice or StarOffice. My partner made it through 4 years using StarOffice herself and we exchanged and proofread each other's work through .sxw and .odt the whole time. Don't do it! Go with OpenOffice, or StarOffice if you really need to buy something (though they are pretty much identical in most respects). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 01:49:28 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:49:28 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061017014928.GA27886@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 09:21:14PM -0400, PW Armstrong wrote: > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office > > her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she says > she needs ms office > > do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, is > open office good enough? > > any and all comments appreciated. Depending on what your daughter studies... The OpenOffice suite covers all the functions, and then some, that most users need most of the time. There may be an odd mathematical function not in the spreadsheet, or multicolour revisions in the editors, and so on, but for an undergraduate student OpenOffice is more than sufficient in itself. However, that's only half the battle. The other half is having the ability to interchange / interoperate with MS Office applications, which the majority of people use, and which they (often unthinkingly) assume the rest of us do or ought to use as well. On this score, OpenOffice is okay, but no more. Its different modules have different import/export capabilities. They all do basic translation reasonably well, so it your daughter never has to import an MS Excel spreadsheet with complicated internal macros, or a word-processor document with history revisions, and the like, she'll be okay, although she can expect to have the occasional inexplicable difficulty. She *will* have to put up with some inconvenience. You can make her a deal to motivate her: pay her the amount of any MS Office install / upgrade if she uses OpenOffice instead. Both MS Office and OpenOffice are hard on hardware, demanding pretty hefty processors before they run decently. After that, the benefits all tilt toward OpenOffice. It's better-maintained, has an extremely active support group, and the price is right. Nor will it become impossible to run on current hardware in the next year or two, as will MS Office after the release of Vista... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 02:07:54 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:07:54 -0400 Subject: is Open Office Ready for University Message-ID: <45343AFA.2040308@rogers.com> I'm enrolled at Ryerson (Con-ed) and all major assignments have to be submitted to www.turnitin.com which is an anti-plagiarism service. This site requires Microsoft file formats, but it will not accept the Open Office version of same ( I tried several times). One thing that might take the bite out of buying MS Office, is that the student version can be installed on three different machines in the same household (same IP address at time of activation), so room-mates could split the cost. The way that I got around the requirement was to log on to one of the computer lab machines, do a 'Save as' of the O.O. document on my usb drive, and then access Turn It In. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 02:09:24 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:09:24 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610162209.24306.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 16 October 2006 21:21, PW Armstrong wrote: > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office > > her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she > says she needs ms office > > do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, > is open office good enough? > > any and all comments appreciated. I don't know about WP Office X3 but OpenOffice works fine in most cases. I have both MS Office and OpenOffice and rarely need to boot Windows just so I can run MS Office and I exchange Word and Excel files with others all the time, including files in which version tracking was used. The only time I have seen OpenOffice's import filters choke on files created in MS Office is when complicated formatting was used or there are VBA macros embedded in the files. Since that accounts for less than 1% of the documents I receive from clients and others, it is inconsequential. Having said that, you should be aware that there are significant discounts for students and teachers for Microsoft products. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 02:37:01 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:37:01 -0400 Subject: FC4 to FC5 update, ypbind broken In-Reply-To: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000b01c6f165$16b17f80$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <200610162237.01693.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 16 October 2006 16:53, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Local Firewall? > BTW, how stable is FC5? I had been running Mandrake/Mandriva on the laptop I'm using to type this since 2002 until this August. I couldn't get dual monitor support working on it which I needed to drive an LCD projector at a conference. That set off a flurry of testing various distros including Mandriva 2007 beta, which wouldn't install at all (the installer would freeze), the latest Kubuntu, which installed fine but unfortunately didn't support the external video output either no matter what I tried, and finally, FC5 which worked (though not without lots of glitches). In the two months that I ran FC5, I had more hard freezes than I did in the four years prior. Fedora Core was a big disappointment and got wiped off this machine last week when I decided to take a stab at Gentoo. I run Gentoo on a few servers already so I am familiar with it but had always resisted it for my laptop figuring it would take too long to build things from source on a P3/850. It does take too long but, that will change when I set up distcc and push package building onto machines on the network. My reasons for using Gentoo have nothing to do with the alleged performance gains one can get from running a DIY distro. If it is any faster, I haven't noticed. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 07:20:57 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:20:57 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610170320.57722.marc@lijour.net> On October 16, 2006 09:21 pm, PW Armstrong wrote: > sooooo, my daughter is off to university Some universities use StarOffice/OpenOffice.org in their labs (eg. Ryerson U.). For a comp. sci. student OOo is great because it is open source and the document format is well documented. This allowed me to write a filter to convert spreadsheets into another format for a project a couple of years ago. These exciting activities are possible because the source and the documentation is available. OOo is doing extremely great with qa and testing apparently. There are ties with the EDOS project (http://www.edos-project.org , see wp3 papers for qa). A new testing framework is under construction to automate the process (TULIP http://www.edos-project.org/xwiki/bin/Main/TULIP ; TULIP stands for Testing Upgrades of Linux Images Program) . TULIP is based on qemu images (for now). The OOO project is called CETOOo (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QA_CETOOo). For a non-tech person OOo is more than enough. I won't repeat the arguments posted before. Plus it is a good bet to make due to the development pace and the growing community. Hope that helps. Marc Ref. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QA_CETOOo http://www.edos-project.org/xwiki/bin/Main/Wp3 http://www.edos-project.org/xwiki/bin/Main/TULIP http://www.edos-project.org/xwiki/bin/download/Main/TULIP/nuxeo-tulip-rmll.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 13:22:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:22:20 -0400 Subject: is Open Office Ready for University In-Reply-To: <45343AFA.2040308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45343AFA.2040308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061017132220.GJ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:07:54PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > I'm enrolled at Ryerson (Con-ed) and all major assignments have to be > submitted to www.turnitin.com which is an anti-plagiarism service. This > site requires Microsoft file formats, but it will not accept the Open > Office version of same ( I tried several times). One thing that might > take the bite out of buying MS Office, is that the student version can > be installed on three different machines in the same household (same IP > address at time of activation), so room-mates could split the cost. The > way that I got around the requirement was to log on to one of the > computer lab machines, do a 'Save as' of the O.O. document on my usb > drive, and then access Turn It In. Sounds like the people running www.turnitin.com are incompetent then. Either they support the files MS office will read, or they don't. Wouldn't it have been much smarter to allow plain text or RTF as well? Heck some versions of ms word save as RTF when saving for older versions of word. Perhaps they tried to reverse engineer ms word documents and only implemented things the way specific versions of word does things rather than actually just implement the file format properly. Maybe they could learn something by looking at the openoffice import code. :) So by using this subpar service it seems ryerson has just told it's students that they must all use microsoft products. I guess as long as they have machines in the lab that have that, it isn't too bad, although still inconvinient. My sister is doing courses at seneca, and part of the program involves learning various ms office applications, so in her case actually buying the student edition of ms office did make some sense, especially since I think it was about $100 at seneca. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 14:12:25 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:12:25 -0400 Subject: Demo versions in Debian non-free (was: is Open Office Ready for University) Message-ID: On 10/17/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:07:54PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > > My sister is doing courses at seneca, and part of the program involves > learning various ms office applications, so in her case actually buying > the student edition of ms office did make some sense, especially since I > think it was about $100 at seneca. You may not have known MS offers a free time-limited beta version of Office 2007. And, if I recall correctly, there is also a free 90-day trial version of Office 2003. The download is about 500 MB. Obligatory Linux reference: Do time-limited trial versions of software belong in Debian/Ubuntu's "non-free" sections? Do you think it is likely Ubuntu would be willing to modify its "Add/Remove Programs" tool to offer a time-limited trial of Crossover Office plus MS Office? Please CC me, Jason -- When you open Windows, bugs get in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 14:12:35 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:12:35 -0400 Subject: is Open Office Ready for University In-Reply-To: <20061017132220.GJ30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061017132220.GJ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:07:54PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > > I'm enrolled at Ryerson (Con-ed) and all major assignments have to be > > submitted to www.turnitin.com which is an anti-plagiarism service. This > > site requires Microsoft file formats, but it will not accept the Open > > Office version of same ( I tried several times). One thing that might > > take the bite out of buying MS Office, is that the student version can > > be installed on three different machines in the same household (same IP > > address at time of activation), so room-mates could split the cost. The > > way that I got around the requirement was to log on to one of the > > computer lab machines, do a 'Save as' of the O.O. document on my usb > > drive, and then access Turn It In. > > Sounds like the people running www.turnitin.com are incompetent then. > Either they support the files MS office will read, or they don't. > Wouldn't it have been much smarter to allow plain text or RTF as well? I use turnitin.com in my classes. As far as I understand they allow not only .doc (which open office saves in), but also pdf (which open office makes easily) and I think also plain text and RTF so I don't see how turnitin would cause a problem for open office. Why not try open office to start with and if that causes your daughter lots of problems, she can always buy MS office at the student discount? > Heck some versions of ms word save as RTF when saving for older versions > of word. Perhaps they tried to reverse engineer ms word documents and > only implemented things the way specific versions of word does things > rather than actually just implement the file format properly. Maybe > they could learn something by looking at the openoffice import code. :) > So by using this subpar service it seems ryerson has just told it's > students that they must all use microsoft products. I guess as long as > they have machines in the lab that have that, it isn't too bad, although > still inconvinient. > > My sister is doing courses at seneca, and part of the program involves > learning various ms office applications, so in her case actually buying > the student edition of ms office did make some sense, especially since I > think it was about $100 at seneca. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 07:37:47 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:37:47 +0000 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4534884B.7080000@zleap.net> On the devon / cornwall lug in the uk, I am involved in a discussion on GNU/LInux in schools, one of the things that keeps coming up in these discussions is should schools / colleges etc be teaching people how to use computers and software or should they be teaching how to use a specific package, which may not even be in use by the time that person leaves the insitution, I think the consensus is that if you teach how to use a computer you teach the skills required to allow the users to learn any package they come across and adapt to the needs of the place they using. I agree with what was said is that Open office should be perfectly adequate for most courses. The important thing about openoffice is that it's not just free as in cost, but free as in freedom and allows copying and distribution of the software. The open office site has lots of excellent free resources, for learning the software, I agree with what was said, give it a go. Paul PW Armstrong wrote: > > > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office > > her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she > says she needs ms office > > do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, is > open office good enough? > > any and all comments appreciated. > > -peter > > > > >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 16:09:42 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:09:42 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534884B.7080000-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534884B.7080000@zleap.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, paul sutton wrote: > On the devon / cornwall lug in the uk, I am involved in a discussion on > GNU/LInux in schools, one of the things that keeps coming up in these > discussions is > should schools / colleges etc be teaching people how to use computers > and software or > should they be teaching how to use a specific package, which may not > even be in use by the time that person leaves the insitution, I think > the consensus is that if you teach how to use a computer you teach the > skills required to allow the users to learn any package they come across > and adapt to the needs of the place they using. > > I agree with what was said is that Open office should be perfectly > adequate for most courses. One exception is that some course textbooks have Excel add-ons that are probably excel only. For example, when I used to teach an intro stats course for business majors all the textbooks had this. Alex > The important thing about openoffice is that > it's not just free as in cost, but free as in freedom and allows copying > and distribution of the software. > > The open office site has lots of excellent free resources, for learning > the software, I agree with what was said, give it a go. > > > > Paul > > > > PW Armstrong wrote: > > > > > > > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office > > > > her laptop actually came with a free copy of WP office X3, but she > > says she needs ms office > > > > do I have to spring for this? if WP office X3, isn't good enough, is > > open office good enough? > > > > any and all comments appreciated. > > > > -peter > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 17:08:34 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:08:34 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4534300A.1020307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0610171008q12f5a058t7becf0da5bc3fa01@mail.gmail.com> On 10/16/06, PW Armstrong wrote: > > sooooo, my daughter is off to university > > yes, I've bought her a laptop > > yes, I've caved, it runs xp > > but I balked at buying a copy of ms office Somebody already mentioned the academic discounts. MS Office should be dirt cheap for her if she walks into the bookstore with her student card and buys it herself. You won't be able to buy it for her without paying a fortune (since you can't buy an OEM version now that you've already purchased the machine) Let her know what you think, but she should make the decision. Remember too, that this is the office suite that she'll be most familiar with when she enters the workforce. She'll *need* to know MS Office, whether she uses it or not. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 21:29:07 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain maisonneuve) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:29:07 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount Message-ID: <85AAC64A-7EFF-437A-AB86-1B7C6C7DB35A@swiftpenguin.com> Hi all, I just compiled and installed samba 3.0.23c all went well... but now i am looking for smbmount and it's nowhere to be found. has it been removed? what am i to use? cheers, Alain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 22:35:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:35:00 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <85AAC64A-7EFF-437A-AB86-1B7C6C7DB35A-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA@public.gmane.org> References: <85AAC64A-7EFF-437A-AB86-1B7C6C7DB35A@swiftpenguin.com> Message-ID: <45355A94.1090800@telly.org> alain maisonneuve wrote: > I just compiled and installed samba 3.0.23c all went well... but now i > am looking for smbmount and it's nowhere to be found. > > has it been removed? what am i to use? smbmount may actually be a separate package on some distros. Samba is the server, smbmount is the client. On both Mandriva (smb-client) and Ubuntu (smbfs), the client package is separate from Samba. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 22:52:12 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <45355A94.1090800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45355A94.1090800@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061017225212.44548.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. EK Evan Leibovitch wrote: alain maisonneuve wrote: > I just compiled and installed samba 3.0.23c all went well... but now i > am looking for smbmount and it's nowhere to be found. > > has it been removed? what am i to use? smbmount may actually be a separate package on some distros. Samba is the server, smbmount is the client. On both Mandriva (smb-client) and Ubuntu (smbfs), the client package is separate from Samba. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 23:14:17 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:14:17 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <20061017225212.44548.qmail-XaYfPTZAAdSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061017225212.44548.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453563C9.6090504@telly.org> E K wrote: > On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. IIRC, smbclient and smbfs are separate Ubuntu packages; they're not the same thing. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 00:30:12 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:30:12 -0400 Subject: Demo versions in Debian non-free (was: is Open Office Ready for University) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061017203012.2f39df9c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:12:25 -0400 Jason Spiro got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > You may not have known MS offers a free time-limited beta version of > Office 2007. And, if I recall correctly, there is also a free 90-day > trial version of Office 2003. Is that like a free trip to Baghdad? ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Futurama is brought to you by Thompson's Teeth, the only teeth strong enough to eat other teeth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 01:42:40 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:42:40 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0610171008q12f5a058t7becf0da5bc3fa01-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4534300A.1020307@gmail.com> <92ee967a0610171008q12f5a058t7becf0da5bc3fa01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Whether she will be forced to use MSO depends on what line of work she gets into. Is this specified anywhere in the thread? If so, I missed it.. As well, I would say that most people aren't qualified to make such a decision, since they haven't tried all of the options. Thus it becomes the decision of known vs. unknown, and obviously, in most cases known has a significant advantage. Simon On 10/17/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > Let her know what you think, but she should make the decision. > Remember too, that this is the office suite that she'll be most > familiar with when she enters the workforce. She'll *need* to know MS > Office, whether she uses it or not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 01:52:09 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:52:09 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry for double posting, but it may also be noteworthy to mention that survey taking is disabled as of now: "The above links have been temporarily disabled due to system maintenance and will be re-enabled shortly. We apologize for any inconvenience." Doh.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 01:49:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:49 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At a glance, it looks like Plone, so it's not hand coded, and one would expect standards compliance. Either way, nice of them to use a decent backend for the page. Oh, hey, they mention Plone right on the page, so my pointing it out is redundant. And it seems fine in Links, but I wouldn't want to take the whole survey using it, so I only looked at the front page. Simon On 10/15/06, David J Patrick wrote: > has anyone tried it in lynx ? > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 02:52:45 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:52:45 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: References: <92ee967a0610171008q12f5a058t7becf0da5bc3fa01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> I am listing to this subject for some time, and I wonder. What are you talking about? It does not make sens to me. What kind of teaching of computers at schools? That sounds to me like teaching sex. Absurd. There is no need to teach obvious things at schools. If someone is not able to learn how to use Excel herself - that person does not deserve any diploma. I am very confused hearing all this discussion. zb. On Tuesday 17 October 2006 21:42, Simon wrote: > Whether she will be forced to use MSO depends on what line of work she > gets into. Is this specified anywhere in the thread? If so, I missed > it.. As well, I would say that most people aren't qualified to make > such a decision, since they haven't tried all of the options. Thus it > becomes the decision of known vs. unknown, and obviously, in most > cases known has a significant advantage. > > Simon > > On 10/17/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > > Let her know what you think, but she should make the decision. > > Remember too, that this is the office suite that she'll be most > > familiar with when she enters the workforce. She'll *need* to know MS > > Office, whether she uses it or not. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 03:25:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:25:20 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions Message-ID: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> Hi folks. Moving over from Mandriva to Kubuntu Edgy, I still have some lingering questions about the packaging system (adept, apt-get, dpkg, etc.); any help is appreciated: 1) What is the dpkg/apt-get equivalent of `rpm -qf filename`, which tells you the name of the package that `filename` belongs to? Can this be searched in any of the GUI tools? 2) Similarly, how can I query the database of uninstalled packages to ask what package would need to be installed to give me a specific file? (This query was brought on by the earlier question of where to find "smbmount" when that is the name of a command embedded inside a package of another name. How do I ask adept or apt, "what package, if installed, would provide the file named `smbmount`"?) 3) In Mandriva, when the notification system said there were new package versions to download, it would tell me whether the need for the upgrade was critical (ie, security or sever bugfix) as opposed to low-priority (cleanup or feature-add). I was able to look at the GUI package manager and get a full changelog. In `adept` I can't seem to find anything to show me this info in either `adept` or `adept_updater`. Am I missing something? I also have two non-packaging questions, both related to the Kubuntu package of Thunderbird (rel 1.5.0.7): 4) The little application icon in the upper left corner of the window is the generic "X" logo as opposed to an applications icon. How/where can I change this? All other apps (including Firefox) seem to have this down OK. 5) When I click on a link in Thunderbird it calls Konqueror to open the page, not Firefox. This is doubly weird, considering that I've changed the KDE settings properly -- when I click on a link from Kmail it calls up Firefox, but when I click a link in Thunderbird it still goes to Konq. I have no idea of how to set things within Thunderbird to change this. and finally: 6) How can I remove something from the Kicker? I accidentally installed a keyboard-changing applet, and I can't seem to remove it. I need to close it every time the system boots, and I can't seem to find out where I can manually revove stuff from the KDE panel such as the OpenOffice quickstarter, etc. Again, thanks for any suggestions. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 04:06:46 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain maisonneuve) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:06:46 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <20061017235846.43616.qmail-66axR3KBzXCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061017235846.43616.qmail@web61313.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AFD9A1C-B335-4362-8288-317BAB7FC8F2@swiftpenguin.com> But i downloaded the entrie tarball from the website, shouldn't the client and server tools be included? I do have smbclient installed. Not to sure how to validate that i have smbfs installed. On 17-Oct-06, at 7:58 PM, E K wrote: > True they are separate. But smbclient depends on smbfs and hence > smbfs will be installed when you install smbclient with apt-get or > synaptec. > > EK > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > E K wrote: > > On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. > IIRC, smbclient and smbfs are separate Ubuntu packages; they're not > the > same thing. > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 04:15:38 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:15:38 -0400 Subject: configuring Thundebird Message-ID: <4535AA6A.20300@rogers.com> Evan, I think that you need to access 'about:config'. This article will help you get started. http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 09:35:57 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:35:57 -0400 Subject: configuring Thundebird In-Reply-To: <4535AA6A.20300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4535AA6A.20300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4535F57D.5040305@utoronto.ca> John McGregor wrote: > Evan, I think that you need to access 'about:config'. This article will > help you get started. > http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries Best bet is: update-alternatives --config x-www-browser (as root). The thunderbird X logo is a known issue: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/46760 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 05:41:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:41:02 -0400 Subject: configuring Thundebird In-Reply-To: <4535AA6A.20300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4535AA6A.20300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4535BE6E.9080609@telly.org> John McGregor wrote: > Evan, I think that you need to access 'about:config'. This article will > help you get started. http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries > Hi John, That wasn't the complete answer, however, given your pointer I was able to find the answer elsewhere within Mozillazine. The issue is actually a Debian-specific facility in which system defaults are noted in /etc/alternatives. There is a script-based interface for building this area, `update-alternatives`, which I discovered at http://kb.mozillazine.org/Default_browser -- this is certainly not something obvious! Running this, and selecting firefox, accomplished what I'd wanted without needing to muck about in the about:config jungle... Thanks for the help, pointing me in the right direction. One question down, five to go. :-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 06:09:19 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:09:19 -0400 Subject: configuring Thundebird In-Reply-To: <4535F57D.5040305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4535AA6A.20300@rogers.com> <4535F57D.5040305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4535C50F.3010601@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > The thunderbird X logo is a known issue: > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/46760 > and that points to a fix: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=199193 The script there did the trick! Thanks! Now it's two down, four to go... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 10:12:15 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 06:12:15 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <200610172252.45427.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: Message-ID: <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> To answer the original question, I am a user of OOo 2.0, and I do not feel it is ready for anything math or science-based at the university level, owing to their broken equation editor. Algebraic expressions as common as "2x" get handled incorrectly (x is not itialicized unless there is a space, as in "2 x", which just looks dumb when printed. I have reported this bug to the OOO team, and they told me they are not really placing a high priority on it. MS Word and WordPerfect handle this properly. I am not satisfied that OOO is ready for the big time in science/math education. Maybe in the arts, where no- one cares about equations, it might be. But even there, there is another problem. Suppose I am Dr. Academic, Ph. D. (doesn't matter what faculty) of the Faculty of Basket Weaving, and I am on the editing team for a textbook on weaving baskets on behalf of a publisher. The standard way to put editor's remarks in a document is to place comments in it. The comment editor in OOO has a poor 1-line-that-goes-on-forever editor, which many people who write comments will find utterly annoying. Under OOO, they are not called comments; they are called "Notes". Again, in this important area, MS Word and WordPerfect come out on top. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 11:17:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:17:40 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45360D54.5040801@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > Sorry for double posting, but it may also be noteworthy to mention > that survey taking is disabled as of now: > > "The above links have been temporarily disabled due to system > maintenance and will be re-enabled shortly. We apologize for any > inconvenience." It's open now, so that was likely due to some overnight server maintenance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 11:50:23 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:50:23 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions In-Reply-To: <45359EA0.3020804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061018115023.GA14392@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:25:20PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >1) What is the dpkg/apt-get equivalent of `rpm -qf filename`, which >tells you the name of the package that `filename` belongs to? Can this >be searched in any of the GUI tools? That would be apt-file. Also useful is apt-show-versions. Good luck with your other questions. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 13:43:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:43:04 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions In-Reply-To: <45359EA0.3020804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061018134304.GK30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:25:20PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Moving over from Mandriva to Kubuntu Edgy, I still have some lingering > questions about the packaging system (adept, apt-get, dpkg, etc.); any > help is appreciated: > > 1) What is the dpkg/apt-get equivalent of `rpm -qf filename`, which > tells you the name of the package that `filename` belongs to? Can this > be searched in any of the GUI tools? dpkg -S filename > 2) Similarly, how can I query the database of uninstalled packages to > ask what package would need to be installed to give me a specific file? > (This query was brought on by the earlier question of where to find > "smbmount" when that is the name of a command embedded inside a package > of another name. How do I ask adept or apt, "what package, if installed, > would provide the file named `smbmount`"?) That requires installing apt-file and then doing: apt-file update apt-file search filename I hardly ever use it though. I find most things I can find by just doing: apt-cache search keyword Most things are obvious enough that a keyword is all you need. > 3) In Mandriva, when the notification system said there were new package > versions to download, it would tell me whether the need for the upgrade > was critical (ie, security or sever bugfix) as opposed to low-priority > (cleanup or feature-add). I was able to look at the GUI package manager > and get a full changelog. In `adept` I can't seem to find anything to > show me this info in either `adept` or `adept_updater`. Am I missing > something? No idea. I figure all updates are important. At least on debian the stable release really should only get security updates or potentially bug fixes for critical bugs (which should of course have been found before release if they were so critical so it really never seems to happen either). > I also have two non-packaging questions, both related to the Kubuntu > package of Thunderbird (rel 1.5.0.7): > > 4) The little application icon in the upper left corner of the window is > the generic "X" logo as opposed to an applications icon. How/where can I > change this? All other apps (including Firefox) seem to have this down OK. The icon of a program is whatever that program sets it to. Many smaller programs don't set it at all and get the default. Some window managers can be made to override the icon. > 5) When I click on a link in Thunderbird it calls Konqueror to open the > page, not Firefox. This is doubly weird, considering that I've changed > the KDE settings properly -- when I click on a link from Kmail it calls > up Firefox, but when I click a link in Thunderbird it still goes to > Konq. I have no idea of how to set things within Thunderbird to change this. I suspect thunderbird like firefox is more gnome oriented and uses the gnome settings instead. Check the gnome control panel. That's where I always found the setting it seems to use. > and finally: > > 6) How can I remove something from the Kicker? I accidentally installed > a keyboard-changing applet, and I can't seem to remove it. I need to > close it every time the system boots, and I can't seem to find out where > I can manually revove stuff from the KDE panel such as the OpenOffice > quickstarter, etc. Can't you just clost it and then save the session? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 14:01:05 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:01:05 -0400 Subject: Mailscanner and spamassassin In-Reply-To: <1160681004.2555.148.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061011201400.GA29195@watson-wilson.ca> <1160600322.2555.109.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20061011232531.GA32314@watson-wilson.ca> <1160681004.2555.148.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20061018140105.GA9752@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 03:23:24PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: >sa-learn --import Thanks. That was part of it. Also, after the import I needed to add more ham and spam to the database before bayes would function. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 9 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 15:11:40 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:11:40 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions In-Reply-To: <45359EA0.3020804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Moving over from Mandriva to Kubuntu Edgy, I still have some lingering > questions about the packaging system (adept, apt-get, dpkg, etc.); any > help is appreciated: > > 1) What is the dpkg/apt-get equivalent of `rpm -qf filename`, which > tells you the name of the package that `filename` belongs to? Can this > be searched in any of the GUI tools? dpkg -S filename should do the trick for installed files. > 2) Similarly, how can I query the database of uninstalled packages to > ask what package would need to be installed to give me a specific file? > (This query was brought on by the earlier question of where to find > "smbmount" when that is the name of a command embedded inside a package > of another name. How do I ask adept or apt, "what package, if installed, > would provide the file named `smbmount`"?) dpkg -L should list all the files in a package, installed or not. > 3) In Mandriva, when the notification system said there were new package > versions to download, it would tell me whether the need for the upgrade > was critical (ie, security or sever bugfix) as opposed to low-priority > (cleanup or feature-add). I was able to look at the GUI package manager > and get a full changelog. In `adept` I can't seem to find anything to > show me this info in either `adept` or `adept_updater`. Am I missing > something? Try using aptitude to read about each package. Also, GUI is fine, adept or synaptic since most packages (in stable releases) are only upgraded with security fixes, meaning that they really should be applied. For edgy though, not sure, anyone know if such a feature exists in any .deb package manager(s)? > 6) How can I remove something from the Kicker? I accidentally installed > a keyboard-changing applet, and I can't seem to remove it. I need to > close it every time the system boots, and I can't seem to find out where > I can manually revove stuff from the KDE panel such as the OpenOffice > quickstarter, etc. Try right click the the panel, in a blank space, then "remove from panel" then "applet" and hopefully your applet will be there to be removed. Otherwise, right clicking the applet doesn't do it? Wouldn't be skim or scim would it? Any of this help? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 16:06:17 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:06:17 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions In-Reply-To: References: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> Message-ID: I'd like t add that as well as apt-cache search, you can search using synaptic, which yields more readable results. With regards to the panel, keep in mind the difference between panel applets and tray icons, because I'm guessing that OOo quickstart is a running process with a tray icon, and not an applet. As such, you must stop that process from starting, either possibly in your OOo settings, or there might be a shortcut for it under ~/.kde, in whatever folder is responsible for autostarting apps when you log in, I forget ( gnome user :). Another useful thing for kde users is how to change the font dpi, but alas KDE doesn't provide a GUI for this, as of last time I checked (they really should, Gnome does it, and inconsistent dpi settings have a big impact. I just found this page for everyone, which looks like it explains enough about the issue: http://process-of-elimination.net/wiki/Control_Font_DPI_in_X Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 16:21:59 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:21:59 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <4535C5BF.384.18496AA-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: Indeed, but if you care enough about technical reports and the accompanying math, you'll be glad you took the time to learn to use LaTeX (for the brilliant output it produces). I do agree that MSO is in some ways superior to OOo (not in all things, however), but the question is whether it's worth the money. To be clear, I am an OOo and TeX user. I think the money spent on Office would be better spent on other things, computer hardware or otherwise, unless you're dealing with someone else's macros and thus need Office, something unlikely for a student of almost any subject, as those are usually only spotted in industry, or maybe in some kind of applied course, but I've never heard of that. Also, Zbigniew: In the first year of Ontario high school they teach the obvious stuff you mention ( Word, Excel, I even encountered Access for a couple of weeks in Grade 10 CS), unfortunately I would say that both that and any sex ed in the curriculum need improvement, hehe.. Simon 2nd year Basket Weaving undergrad On 10/18/06, Paul King wrote: > To answer the original question, I am a user of OOo 2.0, and I do not feel it > is ready for anything math or science-based at the university level, owing to > their broken equation editor. Algebraic expressions as common as "2x" get > handled incorrectly (x is not itialicized unless there is a space, as in "2 x", > which just looks dumb when printed. I have reported this bug to the OOO team, > and they told me they are not really placing a high priority on it. > > MS Word and WordPerfect handle this properly. I am not satisfied that OOO is > ready for the big time in science/math education. Maybe in the arts, where no- > one cares about equations, it might be. > > But even there, there is another problem. Suppose I am Dr. Academic, Ph. D. > (doesn't matter what faculty) of the Faculty of Basket Weaving, and I am on the > editing team for a textbook on weaving baskets on behalf of a publisher. The > standard way to put editor's remarks in a document is to place comments in it. > The comment editor in OOO has a poor 1-line-that-goes-on-forever editor, which > many people who write comments will find utterly annoying. Under OOO, they are > not called comments; they are called "Notes". Again, in this important area, MS > Word and WordPerfect come out on top. > > Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 16:29:29 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:29:29 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <45360D54.5040801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <45360D54.5040801@rogers.com> Message-ID: That's odd, it's still down for me as of now, I even tried switching my UA, and actually opening it in IE. I wouldn't have expected this to work though, what with their using Plone - they'd have to be pretty determined to suck if they wanted to do UA detection with a CMS, and for the purpose of controlling access to a survey that is about software usage! Simon On 10/18/06, James Knott wrote: > It's open now, so that was likely due to some overnight server maintenance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 16:51:49 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:51:49 -0400 Subject: Some (k)ubuntu and Thunderbird questions In-Reply-To: <4536442C.6070306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45359EA0.3020804@telly.org> <4536442C.6070306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061018165149.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:11:40AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > dpkg -L should list all the files in a package, installed or not. Installed only. Not installed means no filelist which means dpkg has no idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 17:15:24 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:15:24 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:21:59PM -0400, Simon wrote: >Indeed, but if you care enough about technical reports and the >accompanying math, you'll be glad you took the time to learn to use >LaTeX (for the brilliant output it produces). I've become a big fan of Latex after learning it this past summer. I produce documents at work faster than using Word or Writer and of better quality. I was reviewing a printout of a rough draft I had written. I began discussing it with a coworker. After a moment he realized that I had written it. He said that the type setting was so good that he assumed it was a white paper I had downloaded. I'll go back to Word or Writer when you pry my copy of 'The Latex Companion' out of my cold dead hands. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 10 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 18:38:36 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan H.) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:38:36 -0400 Subject: Last night's Spam doc In-Reply-To: <20061018171524.GB9752-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <453674AC.6030101@zee4.com> Just wondering if anyone caught the Spam: The Documentary (http://www.cbc.ca/thelens/program_171006.html) last night? If so what did they think of it? Personally I liked the premise: guy starts buying spam products to see if they work :) BTW: The Linux Caffe was pretty prominently featured :) Zoltan YYZtech.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 19:53:06 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:53:06 -0400 Subject: quotas and block size Message-ID: <20061018195306.GC9752@watson-wilson.ca> I have a Redhat AS3 system. The / file system has a block size of 4096k: # tune2fs -l /dev/sda1|grep "Block size" Block size: 4096 I want to set a quota of 300MB. I calculate that that is 75 blocks. I set this using edquota: Disk quotas for user nhwatson (uid 502): Filesystem blocks soft hard inodes soft hard /dev/sda1 36 60 75 10 0 0 This is a new system. I cannot be using 148MB (4096k x 36). However I am using 36k: # du -sh /home/nhwatson 36K /home/nhwatson Are the blocks in quotas bytes of blocks? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 10 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 21:40:24 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Brit warships sail under wind(ows). Canadian subs too ? Message-ID: <20061018214024.69883.qmail@web57113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Wonderful news, I do not know how I missed this at the time (so the scenarios where WWIII is started by a script kiddie who infects a computer with a trojan were not fiction after all, then): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/ams_goes_windows_for_warships/ Peter PS: I have a great idea for a business proposal: Make computer crash antivirus/survival kits for the navy (-ies?), including a long oar supplied telescoped, in case removal of a virus and reinstall of a critical system fails at sea. The advanced kit would be for administrators, and provide a tom-tom drum to help keep the oars in cadence.The equivalent submarine kit would provide an extra 5 minute oxygen bottle for the survival rebreather and a tiny bible instead of oars and tom-tom. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 18 21:52:59 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:52:59 -0400 Subject: Brit warships sail under wind(ows). Canadian subs too ? In-Reply-To: <20061018214024.69883.qmail-MZVCXdE3E0eB9c0Qi4KiSs0jms80CZx+QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061018214024.69883.qmail@web57113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990610181452x45b4024fsec333f7e71c97b08@mail.gmail.com> On 10/18/06, Peter P. wrote: > Wonderful news, I do not know how I missed this at the > time (so the scenarios where WWIII is started by a > script kiddie who infects a computer with a trojan > were not fiction after all, then): > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/ams_goes_windows_for_warships/ I had eye surgery that was assisted by computers running Windows. Yes, I was actually worried for a little while.. ---- > CERT confirms that, as others have already found, IE cannot be removed from Windows Wrong, see http://www.litepc.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 00:36:13 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:36:13 -0400 Subject: Brit warships sail under wind(ows). Canadian subs too ? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610181452x45b4024fsec333f7e71c97b08-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061018214024.69883.qmail@web57113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1e55af990610181452x45b4024fsec333f7e71c97b08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's not enough to merely remove IE, it has to be done with assurances that other system components won't break, and that's where the problem lies. On 10/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > CERT confirms that, as others have already found, IE cannot be removed from Windows > > Wrong, see http://www.litepc.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 00:37:56 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <4AFD9A1C-B335-4362-8288-317BAB7FC8F2-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFD9A1C-B335-4362-8288-317BAB7FC8F2@swiftpenguin.com> Message-ID: <20061019003756.2213.qmail@web61320.mail.yahoo.com> What you downloaded is only the server tarball. Wasn't it easier to install the package from your distro's site unless you have a need for the very latest one? EK --- alain maisonneuve wrote: > > But i downloaded the entrie tarball from the > website, shouldn't the > client and server tools be included? > > I do have smbclient installed. > Not to sure how to validate that i have smbfs > installed. > > > > On 17-Oct-06, at 7:58 PM, E K wrote: > > > True they are separate. But smbclient depends on > smbfs and hence > > smbfs will be installed when you install smbclient > with apt-get or > > synaptec. > > > > EK > > > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > E K wrote: > > > On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. > > IIRC, smbclient and smbfs are separate Ubuntu > packages; they're not > > the > > same thing. > > > > - Evan > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > Share your photos with the people who matter at > Yahoo! Canada Photos > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 00:48:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:48:49 -0400 Subject: Last night's Spam doc In-Reply-To: <453674AC.6030101-KdxWn004MjY@public.gmane.org> References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> <453674AC.6030101@zee4.com> Message-ID: http://www.cbc.ca/thelens/media/spam_excerpt.mov you don't actually see Linux anywhere though.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 04:57:36 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:57:36 -0400 Subject: Brit warships sail under wind(ows). Canadian subs too ? In-Reply-To: References: <20061018214024.69883.qmail@web57113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1e55af990610181452x45b4024fsec333f7e71c97b08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <453705C0.40608@utoronto.ca> Simon wrote: > It's not enough to merely remove IE, it has to be done with assurances > that other system components won't break, and that's where the problem > lies. > > On 10/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: >> > CERT confirms that, as others have already found, IE cannot be >> removed from Windows >> >> Wrong, see http://www.litepc.com Best bet for an almost totally gutted IE (and everything else) is TinyXP. Rev 02 is the one I think, newer versions had IE put back in for some reason. At an iso weight of around 140mb and full install around 400mb, using about 40-60mb of ram, it's size and speed are better than many a base debian or ubuntu install (for a desktop that is). If you've got an XP key, check it out, put your key to use on a spare partition. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 02:57:28 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:57:28 -0400 Subject: Linux Today - Community: Why There is Better Driver Support in 64-bit Linux Than 64-bit Windows XP Message-ID: <4536E998.2020807@rogers.com> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 11:37:52 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:37:52 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <45360D54.5040801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45376390.1030407@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > That's odd, it's still down for me as of now, I even tried switching > my UA, and actually opening it in IE. I wouldn't have expected this > to work though, what with their using Plone - they'd have to be pretty > determined to suck if they wanted to do UA detection with a CMS, and > for the purpose of controlling access to a survey that is about > software usage! Maybe MS noticed all the questions about Linux and OpenOffice and decided to block it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 15:12:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:12:02 -0400 Subject: quotas and block size In-Reply-To: <20061018195306.GC9752-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061018195306.GC9752@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20061019151202.GM30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:53:06PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I have a Redhat AS3 system. The / file system has a block size of > 4096k: > # tune2fs -l /dev/sda1|grep "Block size" > Block size: 4096 Those are bytes. No one would want a 4MB block size. > I want to set a quota of 300MB. I calculate that that is 75 blocks. I > set this using edquota: > Disk quotas for user nhwatson (uid 502): > Filesystem blocks soft hard inodes soft hard > /dev/sda1 36 60 75 10 0 0 > > This is a new system. I cannot be using 148MB (4096k x 36). However I > am using 36k: > # du -sh /home/nhwatson > 36K /home/nhwatson > > Are the blocks in quotas bytes of blocks? block size is always in bytes. You want 75000 blocks quota. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 16:12:01 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:12:01 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <20061019003756.2213.qmail-CmWagIz1kFSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061019003756.2213.qmail@web61320.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061019121201.gpjkravnyl6o48so@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> Where do i find the client stuff? shouldn't it be all in one? i can't seem to find it on samba.org i required the update to the latest so that i can connect up with my Mac OSX the version that came with breezy had an issue. Quoting E K : > What you downloaded is only the server tarball. Wasn't > it easier to install the package from your distro's > site unless you have a need for the very latest one? > > EK > --- alain maisonneuve > wrote: > >> >> But i downloaded the entrie tarball from the >> website, shouldn't the >> client and server tools be included? >> >> I do have smbclient installed. >> Not to sure how to validate that i have smbfs >> installed. >> >> >> >> On 17-Oct-06, at 7:58 PM, E K wrote: >> >> > True they are separate. But smbclient depends on >> smbfs and hence >> > smbfs will be installed when you install smbclient >> with apt-get or >> > synaptec. >> > >> > EK >> > >> > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> > E K wrote: >> > > On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. >> > IIRC, smbclient and smbfs are separate Ubuntu >> packages; they're not >> > the >> > same thing. >> > >> > - Evan >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >> http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >> below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> > >> > Share your photos with the people who matter at >> Yahoo! Canada Photos >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 16:30:29 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:30:29 -0400 Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <20061019121201.gpjkravnyl6o48so-2RFepEojUI1BfbfP7qimxQ7GUfgVobmE@public.gmane.org> References: <20061019003756.2213.qmail@web61320.mail.yahoo.com> <20061019121201.gpjkravnyl6o48so@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> Message-ID: <4537A825.7080504@telly.org> alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Where do i find the client stuff? shouldn't it be all in one? i can't > seem to > find it on samba.org Have a look at http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/smbfs/ In general, what you're looking for is found under the name 'smbfs'. HTH - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 09:54:16 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:54:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Brit warships sail under wind(ows). Canadian subs too ? References: <20061018214024.69883.qmail@web57113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1e55af990610181452x45b4024fsec333f7e71c97b08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali writes: > I had eye surgery that was assisted by computers running Windows. > > Yes, I was actually worried for a little while.. Myabe they had a recovery kit that included a white cane in case recovery failed at the wrong time ? P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 16:48:22 2006 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:48:22 -0400 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <20061018171524.GB9752-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1bb290610190948y31216371t344db1d69dce31d2@mail.gmail.com> Do you know Kile (LaTeX editor for KDE)? Among other very useful features, it includes icons/commands for the AMS math symbols. I always use it when writing LaTeX. http://kile.sourceforge.net/ /Simone On 10/18/06, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:21:59PM -0400, Simon wrote: > >Indeed, but if you care enough about technical reports and the > >accompanying math, you'll be glad you took the time to learn to use > >LaTeX (for the brilliant output it produces). > > I've become a big fan of Latex after learning it this past summer. I > produce documents at work faster than using Word or Writer and of better > quality. I was reviewing a printout of a rough draft I had written. I > began discussing it with a coworker. After a moment he realized that I > had written it. He said that the type setting was so good that he > assumed it was a white paper I had downloaded. I'll go back to Word or > Writer when you pry my copy of 'The Latex Companion' out of my cold dead > hands. > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 10 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.17-2-686 unknown x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 18:45:05 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan H.) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:45:05 -0400 Subject: Last night's Spam doc In-Reply-To: References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> <453674AC.6030101@zee4.com> Message-ID: <4537C7B1.3050708@zee4.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 19 20:47:56 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:47:56 -0600 Subject: IE & 24 Hours = 1st Bug Message-ID: <4537E47C.7080601@rogers.com> Thought readers here would be amused: "Security flaw found in new Internet Explorer web browser" http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2006/10/19/tech-ie.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 02:15:04 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:15:04 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner Message-ID: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's "7 laws of identity" at... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/BNStory/Technology I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianlive19/BNStory/Technology/home It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody who wants to witness 90 minutes of tap-dancing is better better off renting the "Riverdance" video, at least you'll be better entertained. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 08:15:54 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 04:15:54 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <453885BA.7060204@utoronto.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > "7 laws of identity" at... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/BNStory/Technology > > I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... > http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html > > Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianlive19/BNStory/Technology/home > It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody who wants to witness 90 > minutes of tap-dancing is better better off renting the "Riverdance" > video, at least you'll be better entertained. How about we spam her inbox? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 05:00:48 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:00:48 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200610200100.49188.marc@lijour.net> On October 19, 2006 10:15 pm, Walter Dnes wrote: > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > "7 laws of identity" at... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/BNS >tory/Technology "Ms. Cavoukian wants such personal security measures built into the very bones of all security systems being created by companies around the world." Why not contacting her to make that happen? May be MS is just a nice sponsor for the research which result will benefit the community then. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 06:18:05 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:18:05 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610200100.49188.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610200100.49188.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20061020021805.0a7238e3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:00:48 -0400 Marc Lijour got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > "Ms. Cavoukian wants such personal security measures built into the very > bones of all security systems being created by companies around the world." > > Why not contacting her to make that happen? > May be MS is just a nice sponsor for the research which result will benefit > the community then. You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Amy: Aw, he looks like a little insane drunken angel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 06:30:20 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:30:20 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:15:04 -0400 Walter Dnes got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > "7 laws of identity" at... Funny. I just finished a blog post in which I joked that MS "could not secure a 2 ton block of Titanium-reinforced concrete against penetration", and included a link to exactly what you are talking about: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html It's like rebuilding our entire network of roads because GM makes shitty cars (I know, the car analogy is getting old, but I really hate GM). No thanks. Oh, and yes, thank you, I will be composing a polite but 'informative' note to this... this... er, what appears to be a Grey Alien. Nice pic. Somebody feed that woman! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: "Good news, everyone, the university is bringing me up on disclipinary charges. Wait, that's not good news at all." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 06:33:05 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:33:05 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <453885BA.7060204-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <453885BA.7060204@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061020023305.2102e71b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 04:15:54 -0400 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > How about we spam her inbox? ROFL! See, that's the thing: she *would* consider it 'spam'. Anything she doesn't want to receive is spam. Like, say, criticism. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. Zoidberg: "Talk to the claw." Bender: "Bite my collosal metal ass." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 11:42:14 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:42:14 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > "7 laws of identity" at... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/BNStory/Technology > > I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... > http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html > > Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianlive19/BNStory/Technology/home > It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody who wants to witness 90 > minutes of tap-dancing is better better off renting the "Riverdance" > video, at least you'll be better entertained. > Does anyone have her office e-mail address? All I can find is the general constact address for the IPC office and not her specifically. If we use that general address, we can be sure some flunky will "filter" our messages. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 12:02:56 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:02:56 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <4538B616.70204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> On October 20, 2006 07:42 am, James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > > > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > > "7 laws of identity" at... > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/B > >NStory/Technology > > > > I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... > > http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html > > > > Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianli > >ve19/BNStory/Technology/home It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody > > who wants to witness 90 minutes of tap-dancing is better better off > > renting the "Riverdance" video, at least you'll be better entertained. > > Does anyone have her office e-mail address? All I can find is the > general constact address for the IPC office and not her specifically. > If we use that general address, we can be sure some flunky will "filter" > our messages. try ipc.on.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 12:19:09 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:19:09 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610200803.02790.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4538BEBD.8030508@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > On October 20, 2006 07:42 am, James Knott wrote: >> Walter Dnes wrote: >>> People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for >>> Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. >>> >>> MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and >>> DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, >>> here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's >>> "7 laws of identity" at... >>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/B >>> NStory/Technology >>> >>> I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... >>> http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html >>> >>> Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... >>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianli >>> ve19/BNStory/Technology/home It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody >>> who wants to witness 90 minutes of tap-dancing is better better off >>> renting the "Riverdance" video, at least you'll be better entertained. >> Does anyone have her office e-mail address? All I can find is the >> general constact address for the IPC office and not her specifically. >> If we use that general address, we can be sure some flunky will "filter" >> our messages. > > try ipc.on.ca That's the general office address I found. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 13:59:40 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:59:40 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020023020.166be7e9-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 20/10/06, JoeHill wrote: >. Nice pic. Somebody feed > that woman! give the girl a sammich ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 14:18:09 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Could we please focus on her ideas rather than her appearance? This has been a PR coup for Microsoft. It could be an opportunity for supporters of open source to make substantive points about security and privacy, so let's make those points instead. Peter > On 20/10/06, JoeHill wrote: >>. Nice pic. Somebody feed >> that woman! > > give the girl a sammich ? > djp > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 19:00:40 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:00:40 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <4538BEBD.8030508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> <4538BEBD.8030508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45391CD8.70705@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: >> try ipc.on.ca > > That's the general office address I found. Oh wow, our Privacy Commissioner has some privacy issues that need addressing. From http://www.ipc.on.ca/scripts/index_.asp?action=31&N_ID=1&P_ID=13&U_ID=0 : "It is an unfortunate reality of the present Internet that communications carried over it are neither secure nor verifiable. Do not send personal information by e-mail." Which I think is another way of saying do not contact us through email at all... Fax (416) 325-9195 How about unsolicited faxes with our gpg keys on them? No really, might get the point across -- either her office would know what they are (and damn well better) and realize that people do use signed or encrypted email without 7 laws or whatever, or the will not, in which case we arrange a meeting with Ann (Ph.D) and explain things to her. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 17:41:05 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:41:05 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 20/10/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Could we please focus on her ideas rather than her appearance? ..sorry, just couldn't resist the farkism. > > This has been a PR coup for Microsoft. It could be an opportunity for > supporters of open source to make substantive points about security and > privacy, so let's make those points instead. here's what I sent; Subject; Ontario Security + Microsoft monoculture = mistake I am somewhat horrified to hear that government policies are being developed around Microsoft technologies. Spam, phishing, viruses, trojans and spyware are almost exclusively the result of insecurities inherent in Microsofts products. Although Identity Metadata could be part of the solution, to dictate the use of solutions provide by a single vendor (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist) is a terrible mistake ! Please do NOT overlook solutions based on open standards and open source technologies. To adopt security measures based on the completely untested (and currently unavailable) Windows Vista, is an outrageously BAD idea. It will cost the taxpayer a lot of money, and it will FAIL ! back to the drawing board, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 17:57:01 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:57:01 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 19 October 2006 22:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. [snip] I heard Cavoukian being interviewed on CBC on Wednesday and though she only mentioned Microsoft by name, she also mentioned several times that this was a broad initiative put forth by many companies, not just Microsoft. I didn't think she was shilling for Microsoft at all. I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, ill-informed, and sexist. I direct everyone's attention to an article on this topic by Doc Searls at Linux Journal here: . Perhaps after reading that, we can engage in informed discussion rather than speculation. The Linux fan boys who advocated spamming her inbox or her fax and those who attacked her based on her looks should be ashamed of themselves. If we want Linux to be a relevant and viable option, we must present cogent, well-informed arguments, not just engage in knee-jerk Microsoft bashing. Behaving like anti-social clods is not likely to convince the great masses of people, who really don't know or care what an operating system is, of the merits of Linux. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 18:07:26 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:07:26 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <45391CD8.70705-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> <4538BEBD.8030508@rogers.com> <45391CD8.70705@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1161367646.3927.3.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Looks like the blind leading the clueless. Nothing new. Any action against the privacy commissioner should be limited to legitimate complaints. If our leaders are really that clued out give them enough rope and allow them to hang themselves. RickT "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 15:00 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > Marc Lijour wrote: > >> try ipc.on.ca > > > > That's the general office address I found. > > Oh wow, our Privacy Commissioner has some privacy issues that need addressing. > From http://www.ipc.on.ca/scripts/index_.asp?action=31&N_ID=1&P_ID=13&U_ID=0 : > > "It is an unfortunate reality of the present Internet that communications > carried over it are neither secure nor verifiable. Do not send personal > information by e-mail." > > Which I think is another way of saying do not contact us through email at all... > > > Fax (416) 325-9195 > How about unsolicited faxes with our gpg keys on them? No really, might get the > point across -- either her office would know what they are (and damn well > better) and realize that people do use signed or encrypted email without 7 laws > or whatever, or the will not, in which case we arrange a meeting with Ann (Ph.D) > and explain things to her. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 18:17:35 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <45391CD8.70705-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> <4538BEBD.8030508@rogers.com> <45391CD8.70705@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Marc Lijour wrote: >> > try ipc.on.ca >> >> That's the general office address I found. > > Oh wow, our Privacy Commissioner has some privacy issues that need > addressing. > From http://www.ipc.on.ca/scripts/index_.asp?action=31&N_ID=1&P_ID=13&U_ID=0 > : > > "It is an unfortunate reality of the present Internet that communications > carried over it are neither secure nor verifiable. Do not send personal > information by e-mail." > > Which I think is another way of saying do not contact us through email at > all... I don't think that's what it means; it says not to send "personal information by e-mail", not "do not e-mail us". -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 19:19:11 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:19:11 -0400 Subject: I didn't know Maclean's was a humour magazine Message-ID: <4539212F.4070106@telly.org> Well, it doesn't claim to be. Yet this week's cover story, "The Internet Sucks", is indeed unintentionally funny in a number of ways. Indeed it seems that Maclean's -- with its knee-deep entrenchment in Old Media, a magazine that couldn't understand how to make a good website if you sent a thousand volts through it(*) -- is one of the most appropriate voices for such tripe. With its ranting about sexual predators and copyright breakers around every cybercorner, it reads like a stagecoach driver moaning about the smell of asphalt and the instability of gasoline. Does it deserve a letter to the editor? Or is a good healthy blog entry -- one that Macleans can't censor -- more appropriate? - Evan (*) -- Hell, even its parent Rogers can't figure out the Internet -- faced with providing online services to its cable Internet subscribers, the company was forced to outsource to Yahoo. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 19:21:36 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:21:36 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <4538B616.70204@rogers.com> <200610200803.02790.marc@lijour.net> <4538BEBD.8030508@rogers.com> <45391CD8.70705@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Indeed, I'm going to have to side with the anti-knee-jerkers. First of all, anything less then polite suggestions/commentary is very harmful to the general reputation of Linux, FOSS, and the users of said software. Even if someone is downright wrong, if they are acting in good faith then it's not going to help your cause to act inflammatory. Second, I've seen shilling for MS, and this is not it. She's merely backing what she thinks is a good idea, unless I missed a whole chunk of text or something. I don't actually know enough about this specific scheme to comment on it, but it doesn't sound terrible, nor does it sound like it would promote an MS monoculture. As for the IPC contact page, use common sense, that page is targeting your average person. Mention encryption and a sizable fraction of the population will clue out. Yes, it would have been nice for them to briefly mention that it is possible to work around this and send things securely, but other than that their goal of warning people against sending sensitive info in the mail has been met. Before reacting harshly, I suggest looking through some of the published material on their site, as well as doing some research. The privacy commission is one of the few consumer advocates we have, so in my opinion they deserve a bit of slack, their intentions are good. If you disagree, keep in mind that you'll do more good sending well-reasoned arguments to them than you will being a tool and flaming people. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 19:25:24 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:25:24 -0400 Subject: I didn't know Maclean's was a humour magazine In-Reply-To: <4539212F.4070106-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4539212F.4070106@telly.org> Message-ID: A brief blog entry wouldn't hurt, but unfortunately, the readers you would want to reach and convince probably aren't all that tech savvy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 19:52:03 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:52:03 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 20 October 2006 15:21, Simon wrote: [snip] > Second, I've seen shilling for MS, and this is not it. She's > merely backing what she thinks is a good idea, unless I missed a > whole chunk of text or something. I don't actually know enough > about this specific scheme to comment on it, but it doesn't sound > terrible, nor does it sound like it would promote an MS > monoculture. I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and then. If Microsoft does something right, the Linux fan boys still attack Microsoft because in their minds, Microsoft has to fail in order for Linux to succeed. For Linux to become a mainstream operating system on the desktop, it needs to earn its place on its merits, not just because Windows is supposedly so bad. > As for the IPC contact page, use common sense, that page is > targeting your average person. Mention encryption and a sizable > fraction of the population will clue out. Yes, it would have been > nice for them to briefly mention that it is possible to work around > this and send things securely, but other than that their goal of > warning people against sending sensitive info in the mail has been > met. [snip] The people who know about encryption don't need to be told that they shouldn't send private information via email so there was no loss in not mentioning it. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 20:47:13 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:47:13 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it > isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists > on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and > then. So let me see if I got this right; If the Ontario's privacy commissioner manages to have us all adopt privacy and security measures based on Windows Vista unproven technologies, while allowing the Redmond team to inject proprietary versions of existing security methods, that will only run on Vista (and the very new hardware it requires) and passing the brunt of the provinces secure authentication transactions to a private company across the border.. you're OK with that ? If Microsoft does something right, the Linux fan boys still > attack Microsoft because in their minds, Microsoft has to fail in > order for Linux to succeed. I'm a card carrying linux fanboy because many years ago I realized I was being jerked around by the worlds largest software companies whose only goal was Global Lock-in and perpetual payment for unnecessary upgrades. I jumped on the linux bandwagon back when the desktop was still flaky, but I recognised that it was the last stronghold of software freedom, and by extension, personal freedom. > For Linux to become a mainstream > operating system on the desktop, it needs to earn its place on its > merits, not just because Windows is supposedly so bad. LInux IS on the road to mainstream adoption based on it's technical merits, but I get my "back up" when I see one of the worlds richest companies foist its products on me and my government through back-room deals. Do you think that if they are allowed to re-engineer "core internet technologies", and impose province wide (or Canada wide) proprietary (ie. closed source) security methods, that any other software will be allowed survive such an ecosystem ? c'mon, their quest for world domination continues, and I'll have none of it ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 20:59:23 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, David J Patrick wrote: > On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> >> I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it >> isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists >> on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and >> then. > > So let me see if I got this right; > If the Ontario's privacy commissioner manages to have us all adopt > privacy and security measures based on Windows Vista unproven > technologies, while allowing the Redmond team to inject proprietary > versions of existing security methods, that will only run on Vista > (and the very new hardware it requires) and passing the brunt of the > provinces secure authentication transactions to a private company > across the border.. you're OK with that ? No. I'm not OK with that, but that's not what was said in the article. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 21:02:34 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:02:34 +0000 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 10/20/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it > > isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists > > on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and > > then. > > So let me see if I got this right; > If the Ontario's privacy commissioner manages to have us all adopt > privacy and security measures based on Windows Vista unproven > technologies, while allowing the Redmond team to inject proprietary > versions of existing security methods, that will only run on Vista > (and the very new hardware it requires) and passing the brunt of the > provinces secure authentication transactions to a private company > across the border.. you're OK with that ? No, that's what is known as a "straw man" argument. You're making up a response that you feel you can trivially knock down. The thing is, Microsoft *does* have some pretty smart folk (notably at Microsoft Research, which bears little resemblance to the rest of the company) some of whom have ideas *legitimately good enough* to be worth listening to. Knee-jerking and going on an anti-Microsoft rave is NOT something that will get you a useful hearing, and that is EXCEEDINGLY necessary in this kind of situation. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 21:05:17 2006 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:05:17 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200610201705.17572.sniffy@rogers.com> On Friday 20 October 2006 13:57, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 19 October 2006 22:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > [snip] > > I heard Cavoukian being interviewed on CBC on Wednesday and though she > only mentioned Microsoft by name, she also mentioned several times > that this was a broad initiative put forth by many companies, not > just Microsoft. I didn't think she was shilling for Microsoft at all. > I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, > ill-informed, and sexist. I direct everyone's attention to an article > on this topic by Doc Searls at Linux Journal here: > . Perhaps after reading > that, we can engage in informed discussion rather than speculation. > > The Linux fan boys who advocated spamming her inbox or her fax and > those who attacked her based on her looks should be ashamed of > themselves. If we want Linux to be a relevant and viable option, we > must present cogent, well-informed arguments, not just engage in > knee-jerk Microsoft bashing. Behaving like anti-social clods is not > likely to convince the great masses of people, who really don't know > or care what an operating system is, of the merits of Linux. Micheal Geist has an entry on his blog about this. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1490&Itemid=125 -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 21:59:13 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:59:13 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 20 October 2006 16:47, David J Patrick wrote: > On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which > > it isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer > > scientists on the planet so they are bound to have a few good > > ideas now and then. > > So let me see if I got this right; > If the Ontario's privacy commissioner manages to have us all adopt > privacy and security measures based on Windows Vista unproven > technologies, while allowing the Redmond team to inject proprietary > versions of existing security methods, that will only run on Vista > (and the very new hardware it requires) and passing the brunt of > the provinces secure authentication transactions to a private > company across the border.. you're OK with that ? I'm waiting for you to ask me if I beat my wife often. Ontario's Privacy Commissioner isn't advocating we adopt a particular implementation of this technology. She is advocating the general concept. I doubt you have read what this identify meta system is all about because if you had, you would know that you don't have to run Windows Vista to use it. You're jumping to the conclusion that just because the word "Microsoft" was mentioned, that this is a Microsoft specific technology. Moreover, just because something is supported or promoted by Microsoft doesn't automatically make it bad. > If Microsoft does something right, the Linux fan boys still > > > attack Microsoft because in their minds, Microsoft has to fail in > > order for Linux to succeed. > > I'm a card carrying linux fanboy because many years ago I realized > I was being jerked around by the worlds largest software companies > whose only goal was Global Lock-in and perpetual payment for > unnecessary upgrades. I jumped on the linux bandwagon back when the > desktop was still flaky, but I recognised that it was the last > stronghold of software freedom, and by extension, personal freedom. Patriotic music plays in the background as our hero wraps himself in the flag of freedom... :) > > For Linux to become a mainstream > > operating system on the desktop, it needs to earn its place on > > its merits, not just because Windows is supposedly so bad. > > LInux IS on the road to mainstream adoption based on it's technical > merits, but I get my "back up" when I see one of the worlds richest > companies foist its products on me and my government through > back-room deals. Do you think that if they are allowed to > re-engineer "core internet technologies", and impose province wide > (or Canada wide) proprietary (ie. closed source) security methods, > that any other software will be allowed survive such an ecosystem ? > c'mon, their quest for world domination continues, and I'll have > none of it ! djp Have you finished beating up that straw man that you've so artfully constructed? Do you have specific proof that Microsoft is engaging in "back room deals" and presumably buying our Privacy Commissioner or are you just engaging in hyperbole? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 22:22:55 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:22:55 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <45394C3F.8000700@telly.org> There isn't much I can say here that Clifford hasn't said very well already. The only thing I'd like to add is to remember the target audience. In many important respects, messages like this are not the advocacy of proprietary versus open, but of security versus non-security. Ie, having _an_ approach -- even if it's Microsoft's -- is suprior to having no approach. It's important to distinguish references to Microsoft as a single source of superior technology (which is legitimate to challenge) from reference to the company primarily because of its current ubiquity and "brand awareness" (which is pointless and petty to challenge). Perhaps the best answer is to agree with the general call for increased security, while reminding players that they will best achieve their ends through open, standards-based, multi-vendor approaches. That's way we're not seen a trying to reframe this as a Windows-versus-Linux argument, but it serves our cause just as well and will resonate better amongst technophobes. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 20 23:35:42 2006 From: achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Chung) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:35:42 -0600 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4539250C.971B.00A2.0@novell.com> "Have you finished beating up that straw man that you've so artfully constructed? Do you have specific proof that Microsoft is engaging in "back room deals" and presumably buying our Privacy Commissioner or are you just engaging in hyperbole?" "Back room deals".... would signing a 5 year contract with Microsoft without going to tender and eliminating all other encumbent vendors count as "back room"? Quite honestly, I don't really care that they did based on where I work, but I do care that my tax dollars are being spent making such decisions without following the procedure that they mandate. I definitely agree with the privacy commissioner in that such a system needs to be in place, however, I'm a little concerned that all the examples given in the paper pertained to Microsoft. Microsoft makes (or buys then enhances) some really great technologies without a doubt. I guess the thing that really burns me is that individuals who read it, won't necessarily read "yes we need a system like this and I'll go out and use anything to do it", they will read "yes we need a system, and we need Microsoft" and not think about what else is out there. MS is a marketing machine and this is another example of that. If you think people will think about Identity and federation without thinking about Microsoft after reading this paper, then I'm obviously not reading the same paper you are. I don't know, maybe there is some value to writing a paper that mentions a single vendor like Microsoft (I don't know what that is but I'm open to hearing those value statements), and if their is, is it more valuable than writing a paper that mentions multiple vendors? Governments "should" present unbiased information to its public as a public service and in this case, it's not unbiased. For individuals working in the industry, yes, I can see how one may just read the MS "examples" as examples, but for the general public, ones not in the industry, they won't read them just as examples. It's marketing hidden in a public message for crying out loud. To Ann's credit though, she does put in small print at the very end of the paper, some links to some other cool identity projects. Why she didn't talk about them in the paper is beyond me and probably relates back to my question about value above. Personally I think that if she did, the paper would have been much more effective. Interestingly enough, she goes back in her interview to say "The opportunity is with all players in the identity metasystem working within a common framework that will provide the user with the benefits of being able to have a secure and private way of establishing and maintaining relationships on-line. The good news is that many in the tech industry, including IBM, Sun, Red Hat, Novell and many telcos have already aligned around this framework. My job is to get the word out as broadly as possible that the only way to protect privacy in the future is to ensure that whatever identity systems are deployed are privacy protective. Right now, that's simply not the case. In fact, the exact opposite exists in the current structure of multiple and ineffective identity systems." >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 5:59 PM, in message <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: On Friday 20 October 2006 16:47, David J Patrick wrote: > On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which > > it isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer > > scientists on the planet so they are bound to have a few good > > ideas now and then. > > So let me see if I got this right; > If the Ontario's privacy commissioner manages to have us all adopt > privacy and security measures based on Windows Vista unproven > technologies, while allowing the Redmond team to inject proprietary > versions of existing security methods, that will only run on Vista > (and the very new hardware it requires) and passing the brunt of > the provinces secure authentication transactions to a private > company across the border.. you're OK with that ? I'm waiting for you to ask me if I beat my wife often. Ontario's Privacy Commissioner isn't advocating we adopt a particular implementation of this technology. She is advocating the general concept. I doubt you have read what this identify meta system is all about because if you had, you would know that you don't have to run Windows Vista to use it. You're jumping to the conclusion that just because the word "Microsoft" was mentioned, that this is a Microsoft specific technology. Moreover, just because something is supported or promoted by Microsoft doesn't automatically make it bad. > If Microsoft does something right, the Linux fan boys still > > > attack Microsoft because in their minds, Microsoft has to fail in > > order for Linux to succeed. > > I'm a card carrying linux fanboy because many years ago I realized > I was being jerked around by the worlds largest software companies > whose only goal was Global Lock-in and perpetual payment for > unnecessary upgrades. I jumped on the linux bandwagon back when the > desktop was still flaky, but I recognised that it was the last > stronghold of software freedom, and by extension, personal freedom. Patriotic music plays in the background as our hero wraps himself in the flag of freedom... :) > > For Linux to become a mainstream > > operating system on the desktop, it needs to earn its place on > > its merits, not just because Windows is supposedly so bad. > > LInux IS on the road to mainstream adoption based on it's technical > merits, but I get my "back up" when I see one of the worlds richest > companies foist its products on me and my government through > back-room deals. Do you think that if they are allowed to > re-engineer "core internet technologies", and impose province wide > (or Canada wide) proprietary (ie. closed source) security methods, > that any other software will be allowed survive such an ecosystem ? > c'mon, their quest for world domination continues, and I'll have > none of it ! djp Have you finished beating up that straw man that you've so artfully constructed? Do you have specific proof that Microsoft is engaging in "back room deals" and presumably buying our Privacy Commissioner or are you just engaging in hyperbole? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 01:16:44 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:16:44 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061020021504.GA20422-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <453974FC.1080904@utoronto.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for > Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > > MS is the problem, not the solution. Spam and spammers websites and > DNS are provided by bot-armies of compromised Windows machines. Yet, > here is an Ontario government official beating the drum for Microsoft's > "7 laws of identity" at... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtprivacy18/BNStory/Technology > > I couldn't resist commenting and pointing a link to... > http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html > > Here's a transcript of a live chat session conducted today... > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061018.gtcavoukianlive19/BNStory/Technology/home > It doesn't sound like I missed much. Anybody who wants to witness 90 > minutes of tap-dancing is better better off renting the "Riverdance" > video, at least you'll be better entertained. So now that we're all all done jerking various parts of ourselves, what are we going to *do*? The consensus i get is that there is the need for some form of discussion -- no one seems to have attempted disputing that. Do we attempt to arrange some sort of public forum with the commissioner or do we just stop now having expended all our energies with silly back and forth twaddling and bickering? There are two obvious sides to this like every technical issue: there are the informed savvy users and uninformed or totally practical. Choose which camp you belong to -- it doesn't matter. The point is, the informed may consider the reactions of the uninformed plebs as beyond reproach, while your common person who couldn't care less won't understand what all the fuss is about and will take whatever privacy measures are deemed appropriate as just that, appropriate protection given from on high by the gods of the free market and its democratically elected protectors. So do we step up and arrange something or rest easy knowing that someone else will do the work and arrange something, then when nothing happens say to ourselves: "At least i weighed in on the issue, it's very important that I at least have an opinion." Who is doing something, who wants to, what, where, and how do we proceed? A meeting anyone? I'd sure like to know more as I'm sure many out there would. Perhaps those self appointed experts on the issue would care to have a round table with anyone interested? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 02:44:11 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:44:11 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4539897B.7080605@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 19 October 2006 22:15, Walter Dnes wrote: >> People, complain to your MPPs. Ann Cavoukian is cheerleading for >> Microsoft on her taxpayer-funded salary. > [snip] > > I heard Cavoukian being interviewed on CBC on Wednesday and though she > only mentioned Microsoft by name, she also mentioned several times > that this was a broad initiative put forth by many companies, not > just Microsoft. I didn't think she was shilling for Microsoft at all. > I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, > ill-informed, and sexist. I direct everyone's attention to an article > on this topic by Doc Searls at Linux Journal here: > . Perhaps after reading > that, we can engage in informed discussion rather than speculation. > Please don't ruin a good argument with facts! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 04:11:39 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:11:39 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610201759.14440.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 20/10/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 20/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > > I'm waiting for you to ask me if I beat my wife often. > > Alright, alright ! > yuh, ok, I admit to some knee-jerking and conclusion jumping. > It's a twitch I've developed from watching our elected representatives > making the wrong decisions, in reaction to marketing forces. > You must admit that Microsoft does not follow the typical tendering process. > > > Patriotic music plays in the background as our hero wraps himself in > > the flag of freedom... :) > :-D > > > > > c'mon, their quest for world domination continues, and I'll have > > > none of it ! djp > > > > Have you finished beating up that straw man that you've so artfully > > constructed? > yeah > > Do you have specific proof that Microsoft is engaging > > in "back room deals" and presumably buying our Privacy Commissioner > > or are you just engaging in hyperbole? > > well..ok.. mostly hyperbole.. the leopard may have changed it's spots, > whatdoiknow ? > but we watched their (MS) sincere grab for the Universal Identity > System before, with Passport, and it's not really a stretch to think > they wouldn't mind being the One True Authenticator. That's an > irrevocable position, dontcha know ! Talk about lock-in ! > > > scares the crap outta me ! > > djp > > -- -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 17:33:22 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:33:22 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos Message-ID: MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to channel 13, and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power of MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, you ask? Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its own. This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 remote when watching TV on MythTV. (so I think it is 99% correct) If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont need anything special to switch Rogers channels) However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent picture quality) The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the Bell supplied NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. I am using a Hauppage PVR-250, so the tuner on that I believe has no idea how to change channels. Even though all the channels are listed in MythTV. I believe all the channels are listing okay, is because of the zap2it is providing all the channel data. The crux is how to tell the Hauppage PVR-250 how to change channels. If I leave the channel on the default channel 13, then it records the program no problem at all. (sounds and everything works great) There are a couple of things I could try. 1) the LIRC again? 2) reprogram a NEXTLEVEL remote and try to get the PVR-250 to change the channel. 3) move some of those weird bunny ear antennas on the coax cable that the NEXTLEVEL remotes can "talk to" Why am I rambling this like? I have no idea. lack of sleep :) anyone that has mythtv experience, let me know. btw I am recording all the installation of the KnoppMyth right from the hardware on the ground to the working KnoppMyth. I am using a digital camera. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:15:22 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:15:22 -0400 Subject: I didn't know Maclean's was a humour magazine In-Reply-To: <4539212F.4070106-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4539212F.4070106@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061021141522.15541b9b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:19:11 -0400 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Does it deserve a letter to the editor? Or is a good healthy blog entry > -- one that Macleans can't censor -- more appropriate? Why not both? I'd certainly be interested in what you had to say, and on my blog, I know that whenever I've posted about issues like these my hits have gone up dramatically. People seem to be getting more curious about these things, and the kind of ignorant agitprop that Macleans puts out needs to be jammed. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ One of Bender's kids: Can we have Bender burgers again? Bender: No, the cat shelter's onto me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:17:23 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:17:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: tolken97 translation software under Linux/Wine ? Message-ID: Hi all, has anybody got the token97 software running under Wine on Linux ? I would like to know this before I waste too much time trying to make it work. tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:19:53 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:19:53 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20061021141953.4856d726@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:18:09 -0400 (EDT) phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Could we please focus on her ideas rather than her appearance? Apologies. You know me, just bein' an arse. Good at it too. > This has been a PR coup for Microsoft. It could be an opportunity for > supporters of open source to make substantive points about security and > privacy, so let's make those points instead. Yes, and I would like to very much. The sense I'm getting from following this thread is that, once again, M$ is claiming to have a 'solution' to a problem that either is blown waaaay out of proportion, or is their 'fault' to begin with, or has already been addressed with other, better, free solutions. Anyhow, lotsa posts on this to read, thanks for the wallop ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hermes to Bender: "What did you get her, you mushy gizmo?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:35:26 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:35:26 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021143526.5ee54e27@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:57:01 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, > ill-informed, and sexist. ....but of course it's ok for you to label us as 'linux fan-boys', 'clods', and 'ill-informed' (did I miss any?) Sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities, but if this discussion is so offensive to you, just don't read it. Some people are maybe more idealistic than you about seeing open and free sol'ns being promoted over closed and profit-driven sol'ns in *our* government, that's no reason to come on here and slag us like this. *I* made *one* stupid remark, intended as a joke, not to insult the woman, for which I have apologized. Don't tar everyone with the same brush, mate. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Where's Captain Bender? Off catastrophizing some other planet? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:42:43 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:42:43 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021143526.5ee54e27-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021143526.5ee54e27@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 21/10/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:57:01 -0400 > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, > > ill-informed, and sexist. what's wrong with being sexy ? ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:43:12 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:43:12 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061020023020.166be7e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <50863.207.188.66.236.1161353889.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:41:05 -0400 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I am somewhat horrified to hear that government policies are being > developed around Microsoft technologies. Spam, phishing, viruses, > trojans and spyware are almost exclusively the result of insecurities > inherent in Microsofts products. Although Identity Metadata could be > part of the solution, to dictate the use of solutions provide by a > single vendor (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist) is a > terrible mistake ! Please do NOT overlook solutions based on open > standards and open source technologies. To adopt security measures > based on the completely untested (and currently unavailable) Windows > Vista, is an outrageously BAD idea. It will cost the taxpayer a lot of > money, and it will FAIL ! Apart from the places where your capslock key got hit by accident, very good ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: A woman like that you gotta romance first! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:55:21 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:55:21 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021143526.5ee54e27@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061021145521.201d2b7d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:42:43 -0400 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > what's wrong with being sexy ? ROFL! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Oh, Lord, I'm on the verge of a nervous melt-down. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 19:02:00 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:02:00 +0000 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <693099114-1161457397-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1943287348-@bxe041-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I think the trick is to leave the hauppage set to chan 13 and use a custom built infrared controller for the decoder box. I don't use satallite. But I know there are plans for building an inbfrared remote for Myth or they can be purchased. Try the mythtv howtos and forums for that. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Teddy David Mills Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:33:22 To:tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to channel 13, and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power of MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, you ask? Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its own. This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 remote when watching TV on MythTV. (so I think it is 99% correct) If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont need anything special to switch Rogers channels) However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent picture quality) The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the Bell supplied NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. I am using a Hauppage PVR-250, so the tuner on that I believe has no idea how to change channels. Even though all the channels are listed in MythTV. I believe all the channels are listing okay, is because of the zap2it is providing all the channel data. The crux is how to tell the Hauppage PVR-250 how to change channels. If I leave the channel on the default channel 13, then it records the program no problem at all. (sounds and everything works great) There are a couple of things I could try. 1) the LIRC again? 2) reprogram a NEXTLEVEL remote and try to get the PVR-250 to change the channel. 3) move some of those weird bunny ear antennas on the coax cable that the NEXTLEVEL remotes can "talk to" Why am I rambling this like? I have no idea. lack of sleep :) anyone that has mythtv experience, let me know. btw I am recording all the installation of the KnoppMyth right from the hardware on the ground to the working KnoppMyth. I am using a digital camera. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 19:03:54 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061021190354.1110.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ok, this is similar to a problem I am now looking at because: - I have offered to build a MythTV box for my boss (who has a satellite system). - I am doing yet another MythTV related article for a magazine. To sum up the problem as I understand it, the set-up for the Bell is something like the following: ------>Special Bell Box>------->TV Set(s) VDSL As with the old fashion cable TV boxes it is the Special Bell Box that does channel selection. You problem is that you don't (yet) know how to get your Linux PC running MythTV to channel select. So your currently stuck unable to get your PC to jump from channel 6 to say channel 50 automatically. The answer as I understand it one of two possible possible routes. Route 1 is a VERY SMALL number of cable/satellite boxes have a USB connector, where you can just plug the cable from PC to box and go from there. Route 2 is to go with an IR blaster, something along the lines of what is described here: http://www.lirc.org/transmitters.html The idea being that your MythTV box mimics your current IR remote and fakes the signal of your current IR remote. There are commercial built IR remotes if you don't want to play with building your own hardware (I have just starting on on the question of what is good/bad, I would love to hear if anyone else on this list has experience with said hardware). Colin McGregor --- Teddy David Mills wrote: > MythTV is all working, but will only record the > default tv channel. > Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and > 13. > I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. > > Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to > change my TV to > channel 13, > and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is > not using the power of > MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. > > I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in > MythTV. Why is that, > you ask? > Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to > switch channels on its > own. > This is strange because I can switch them using the > Hauppage PVR-250 > remote when watching TV on MythTV. > (so I think it is 99% correct) > > If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning > would be working! (dont > need anything special to switch Rogers channels) > However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. > (which btw has excellent > picture quality) > > The only way to change channels anywhere on anything > is by using the > Bell supplied > NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. > > I am using a Hauppage PVR-250, so the tuner on that > I believe has no > idea how to change channels. > Even though all the channels are listed in MythTV. I > believe all the > channels are listing okay, is because > of the zap2it is providing all the channel data. > > The crux is how to tell the Hauppage PVR-250 how to > change channels. > If I leave the channel on the default channel 13, > then it records the > program no problem at all. > (sounds and everything works great) > > There are a couple of things I could try. > 1) the LIRC again? > 2) reprogram a NEXTLEVEL remote and try to get the > PVR-250 to change the > channel. > 3) move some of those weird bunny ear antennas on > the coax cable that > the NEXTLEVEL remotes can "talk to" > > Why am I rambling this like? I have no idea. lack of > sleep :) > anyone that has mythtv experience, let me know. > > btw I am recording all the installation of the > KnoppMyth right from the > hardware on the ground to the working KnoppMyth. > I am using a digital camera. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 19:54:31 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:54:31 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> The item you want is ir blaster if memory serves me. It does the ir output to control the expressview box much like running the remote manually Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Sat Oct 21 15:02:00 2006 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos I think the trick is to leave the hauppage set to chan 13 and use a custom built infrared controller for the decoder box. I don't use satallite. But I know there are plans for building an inbfrared remote for Myth or they can be purchased. Try the mythtv howtos and forums for that. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Teddy David Mills Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:33:22 To:tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to channel 13, and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power of MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, you ask? Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its own. This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 remote when watching TV on MythTV. (so I think it is 99% correct) If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont need anything special to switch Rogers channels) However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent picture quality) The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the Bell supplied NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. I am using a Hauppage PVR-250, so the tuner on that I believe has no idea how to change channels. Even though all the channels are listed in MythTV. I believe all the channels are listing okay, is because of the zap2it is providing all the channel data. The crux is how to tell the Hauppage PVR-250 how to change channels. If I leave the channel on the default channel 13, then it records the program no problem at all. (sounds and everything works great) There are a couple of things I could try. 1) the LIRC again? 2) reprogram a NEXTLEVEL remote and try to get the PVR-250 to change the channel. 3) move some of those weird bunny ear antennas on the coax cable that the NEXTLEVEL remotes can "talk to" Why am I rambling this like? I have no idea. lack of sleep :) anyone that has mythtv experience, let me know. btw I am recording all the installation of the KnoppMyth right from the hardware on the ground to the working KnoppMyth. I am using a digital camera. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists N???????????????60j???? ?PD??j????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 20:35:06 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:35:06 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021143526.5ee54e27-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021143526.5ee54e27@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200610211635.07118.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 21 October 2006 14:35, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:57:01 -0400 > > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature, > > ill-informed, and sexist. > > ....but of course it's ok for you to label us as 'linux fan-boys', > 'clods', and 'ill-informed' (did I miss any?) You missed immature. I think it is fair to call one a Linux fan boy if they feel the need to frame every issue as a Linux vs. The World issue, make straw man arguments, and put words in the mouths of their opponents, perceived or real, to "win". I think it is fair to call one a clod for attacking a woman's looks rather than her ideas. I think it is fair to call one ill-informed if one argues based on conjecture and no basis in fact. I think it is fair to call "immature" those who promote spamming the Privacy Commissioner's inbox and fax just because they didn't like what she had to say, never mind that she didn't say what they think she said. > Sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities, but if this > discussion is so offensive to you, just don't read it. Some people > are maybe more idealistic than you about seeing open and free > sol'ns being promoted over closed and profit-driven sol'ns in *our* > government, that's no reason to come on here and slag us like this. Is this the Linux Inquisition where I have to defend myself against charges of heresy? You are misrepresenting the facts when you claim that "closed and profit-driven" solutions are being promoted over free solutions. No such thing was done. Besides, "profit" is not a dirty word. The last time I checked, Red Hat, Novell, Oracle, Cisco, Sun, Apple, and IBM all made pretty good money on solutions based on free software (and there is nothing wrong with that). > *I* made *one* stupid remark, intended as a joke, not to insult the > woman, for which I have apologized. I doubt you would have made such a "joke" had the Privacy Commissioner been a man. > Don't tar everyone with the same brush, mate. I didn't. What part of "I think the reaction of some on this thread has been immature..." etc., tars everyone with the same brush? Hint: "some on this thread" is a subset of "everyone". -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 20:36:16 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021144312.743969c3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 21 October 2006 14:43, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:41:05 -0400 > > David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > I am somewhat horrified to hear that government policies are > > being developed around Microsoft technologies. Spam, phishing, > > viruses, trojans and spyware are almost exclusively the result of > > insecurities inherent in Microsofts products. Although Identity > > Metadata could be part of the solution, to dictate the use of > > solutions provide by a single vendor (especially a foreign owned, > > convicted monopolist) is a terrible mistake ! Please do NOT > > overlook solutions based on open standards and open source > > technologies. To adopt security measures based on the completely > > untested (and currently unavailable) Windows Vista, is an > > outrageously BAD idea. It will cost the taxpayer a lot of money, > > and it will FAIL ! > > Apart from the places where your capslock key got hit by accident, > very good ;) Good hyperbole but unfortunately devoid of facts. 1. Where is this government policy that is being developed around Microsoft's technologies in the context of this discussion? 2. I run KMail on Linux. Why is it that I still receive spam and regularly encounter phishing attempts even though those are supposedly "almost exclusively the result of insecurities inherent in Microsofts products"? Oh yes. It's all Microsoft's fault. 3. Who is dictating "the use of solutions provide by a single vendor (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist)"? 4. Who is overlooking "solutions based on open standards"? 5. Is this identity meta system a Microsoft technology or does Microsoft just happen to have an implementation of an open standard? Note: I'm not asking how good or bad Microsoft's implementation is. That is another issue. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 20:59:28 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:59:28 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021165928.378459ad@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > 2. I run KMail on Linux. Why is it that I still receive spam and > regularly encounter phishing attempts even though those are > supposedly "almost exclusively the result of insecurities inherent in > Microsofts products"? Oh yes. It's all Microsoft's fault. Talk about 'Straw Man', sheesh. What a silly and spurious argument. If I need to explain to you how the spam gets to you, and yes it is Microsoft's fault, then I don't know what else to say. I'm inclined to believe you are being a little intellectually dishonest here, but just in case: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html http://securityfocus.com/columnists/188 As far as the other points, you're right, I don't know. For some inexplicable reason you are replying to me but attacking David's argument. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: You gotta help me, Bender. How can I prove I'm human? Bender: You could drop dead. That'd show 'em. Fry: I don't wanna. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:06:04 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:06:04 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > 1. Where is this government policy that is being developed around > Microsoft's technologies in the context of this discussion? ... > 3. Who is dictating "the use of solutions provide by a single vendor > (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist)"? > > 4. Who is overlooking "solutions based on open standards"? > > 5. Is this identity meta system a Microsoft technology or does > Microsoft just happen to have an implementation of an open standard? Now that I'm reading Michael Geist's ( Canada Research Chair of Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, clearly one of your 'linux fanboys' or a 'clod' or 'knee-jerk anti MS', or whatever) blog on this, I do believe David made some valid points. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: I must be a robot. Why else would human women refuse to date me? Leela: Oh, lots of reasons. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:21:19 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:21:19 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610211635.07118.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201357.02184.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021143526.5ee54e27@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211635.07118.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021172119.3d25c40f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:35:06 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Is this the Linux Inquisition where I have to defend myself against > charges of heresy? Okay, now you're just being silly and belligerent. Bye. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Zapp: She's built like a steak house but she handles like a bistro. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:27:20 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:27:20 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021170604.63325187-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 10/21/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > 1. Where is this government policy that is being developed around > > Microsoft's technologies in the context of this discussion? > > ... > > > 3. Who is dictating "the use of solutions provide by a single vendor > > (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist)"? > > > > 4. Who is overlooking "solutions based on open standards"? > > > > 5. Is this identity meta system a Microsoft technology or does > > Microsoft just happen to have an implementation of an open standard? > > Now that I'm reading Michael Geist's ( Canada Research Chair of Internet and > E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, clearly one of your 'linux > fanboys' or a 'clod' or 'knee-jerk anti MS', or whatever) blog on this, I do > believe David made some valid points. Geist has some good points. They happen also to be framed in a context that allows the likes of the privacy commissioner to (at least potentially) accept it constructively. He doesn't make his points in a "cloddish" or "wild fanboyish" manner. In order to affect government policy (which I would imagine OUGHT to be the point of this discussion), it's not nearly good enough to be in some sense "right" or "correct;" generating government policy requires that there be some capability to participate in the relevant organizational structures, which requires very different language from what we might "mouth off" with, here. Merely saying "Microsoft Bad!" isn't anywhere *near* enough. All that'll get you is that government-related folks will ignore you. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 17 23:58:46 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and SMBMount In-Reply-To: <453563C9.6090504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453563C9.6090504@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061017235846.43616.qmail@web61313.mail.yahoo.com> True they are separate. But smbclient depends on smbfs and hence smbfs will be installed when you install smbclient with apt-get or synaptec. EK Evan Leibovitch wrote: E K wrote: > On Ubuntu the package is smbclient. IIRC, smbclient and smbfs are separate Ubuntu packages; they're not the same thing. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:41:58 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:41:58 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/21/06, JoeHill wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 >> CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: >> >> > 1. Where is this government policy that is being developed around >> > Microsoft's technologies in the context of this discussion? >> >> ... >> >> > 3. Who is dictating "the use of solutions provide by a single vendor >> > (especially a foreign owned, convicted monopolist)"? >> > >> > 4. Who is overlooking "solutions based on open standards"? >> > >> > 5. Is this identity meta system a Microsoft technology or does >> > Microsoft just happen to have an implementation of an open standard? >> >> Now that I'm reading Michael Geist's ( Canada Research Chair of >> Internet and >> E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, clearly one of your 'linux >> fanboys' or a 'clod' or 'knee-jerk anti MS', or whatever) blog on >> this, I do >> believe David made some valid points. > > Geist has some good points. > > They happen also to be framed in a context that allows the likes of > the privacy commissioner to (at least potentially) accept it > constructively. > > He doesn't make his points in a "cloddish" or "wild fanboyish" manner. > > In order to affect government policy (which I would imagine OUGHT to > be the point of this discussion), it's not nearly good enough to be in > some sense "right" or "correct;" generating government policy requires > that there be some capability to participate in the relevant > organizational structures, which requires very different language from > what we might "mouth off" with, here. > > Merely saying "Microsoft Bad!" isn't anywhere *near* enough. All > that'll get you is that government-related folks will ignore you. Who's involved in FSOSS at Seneca next weekend such that they can invite the commissioner to participate? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:43:56 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:43:56 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press style store Message-ID: <453A949C.6010608@rogers.com> Hi Folk. I'm doing a project for one of my Con-Ed courses at Ryerson that involves upgrading the I.T. system of a small not-for-profit. The organization that I am studying doesn't have the volume to justify a full on e-commerce solution for its merchandise, but would be a nice fit for a Canadian based Cafe Press style operation. Does anybody here know of such an enterprise and could post a link? TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 21:46:18 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:46:18 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1161467178.3972.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Notable in what respect? IMHO the smartest minds in the business would steer clear of convicted monopoly Microsoft and devote their efforts to something of substance and value. If the best and the brightest efforts result in something with the stability of 'windows' this is very discouraging for mankind in general. RickT "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 15:52 -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it > isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists > on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 22:05:34 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:05:34 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061021180534.04105ebe@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:27:20 -0400 Christopher Browne got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > Now that I'm reading Michael Geist's ( Canada Research Chair of Internet and > > E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, clearly one of your 'linux > > fanboys' or a 'clod' or 'knee-jerk anti MS', or whatever) blog on this, I do > > believe David made some valid points. > > Geist has some good points. > > They happen also to be framed in a context that allows the likes of > the privacy commissioner to (at least potentially) accept it > constructively. > > He doesn't make his points in a "cloddish" or "wild fanboyish" manner. > > In order to affect government policy (which I would imagine OUGHT to > be the point of this discussion), it's not nearly good enough to be in > some sense "right" or "correct;" generating government policy requires > that there be some capability to participate in the relevant > organizational structures, which requires very different language from > what we might "mouth off" with, here. > > Merely saying "Microsoft Bad!" isn't anywhere *near* enough. All > that'll get you is that government-related folks will ignore you. I don't think anyone on here would argue with you on this. I also don't think that the points made by David, or anyone else on here, deserve to be continually characterized the way they are. Pointing out, for example, that it is disturbing that a company like Microsoft, with its record on security, might be involved in *providing* security, is logical and rational. Of course some of the hyperbole on here is not suited for communicating with bureaucrats, but I think most people already recognize that. Unfortunately, this a pattern I see on this list very often. Discussion of a perfectly legitimate objection against Microsoft draws the inevitable 'oh here we go, you're a bunch of knee-jerk anti-MS zealots' posts, and it degenerates from there. I just keep hoping someone will post some more info on this topic, but all that's coming in is criticism and undeserved characterizations of the posters themselves. Can we move on? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Have you ever been in love? Worm Mayor: No, I thought I was once, but then I remembered our species reproduces with a cloud of spores. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 22:12:02 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:12:02 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32FD-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610211512v1fbbc779r8cd87a78511606ac@mail.gmail.com> Too bad you didnt buy the PVR-150 it works real well with the blaster I've gotit set up with Rogers Digital Cable works nicely On 10/21/06, Dave Bour wrote: > > The item you want is ir blaster if memory serves me. It does the ir > output to control the expressview box much like running the remote manually > > Dave Bour > Desktop Solution Center > 905.381.0077 > dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org > > For those who just want it to work... > Giving you complete IT peace of mind. > > (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose > responses) > PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Sat Oct 21 15:02:00 2006 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for > condos > > I think the trick is to leave the hauppage set to chan 13 and use a custom > built infrared controller for the decoder box. I don't use satallite. But I > know there are plans for building an inbfrared remote for Myth or they can > be purchased. > > Try the mythtv howtos and forums for that. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > -----Original Message----- > From: Teddy David Mills > Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:33:22 > To:tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos > > > MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. > Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. > I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. > > Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to > channel 13, > and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power of > MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. > > I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, > you ask? > Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its > own. > This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 > remote when watching TV on MythTV. > (so I think it is 99% correct) > > If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont > need anything special to switch Rogers channels) > However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent > picture quality) > > The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the > Bell supplied > NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. > > I am using a Hauppage PVR-250, so the tuner on that I believe has no > idea how to change channels. > Even though all the channels are listed in MythTV. I believe all the > channels are listing okay, is because > of the zap2it is providing all the channel data. > > The crux is how to tell the Hauppage PVR-250 how to change channels. > If I leave the channel on the default channel 13, then it records the > program no problem at all. > (sounds and everything works great) > > There are a couple of things I could try. > 1) the LIRC again? > 2) reprogram a NEXTLEVEL remote and try to get the PVR-250 to change the > channel. > 3) move some of those weird bunny ear antennas on the coax cable that > the NEXTLEVEL remotes can "talk to" > > Why am I rambling this like? I have no idea. lack of sleep :) > anyone that has mythtv experience, let me know. > > btw I am recording all the installation of the KnoppMyth right from the > hardware on the ground to the working KnoppMyth. > I am using a digital camera. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > N???????????????60j???? ?PD??j????? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 22:16:36 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:16:36 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610201552.03404.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021221636.GA24403@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 03:52:03PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > I agree. Even if this was a Microsoft specific technology, which it > isn't, Microsoft employs some of the most notable computer scientists > on the planet so they are bound to have a few good ideas now and > then. If MS employs such brilliant people, then why can't an out-of-the-box MS Windows system be connected to a broadband modem without a firewall and be safe? For those who ask, that's *EXACTLY* how a Gentoo install works. The basic ISO contains a basic system that connectes to the net and installs the real Gentoo. Then it chroots into the real Gentoo. And I do some more work and reboot. Some time later, I eventually get around to installing and enabling iptables. I have never been compromised, not even when running without iptables during the install phase. Please explain to me what's so damn brilliant about ports 135, 137, 138, 139, and 445 listening to the net by default. And what's so brilliant about a web browser that allows drive-by-downloads? Hiring a "brilliant researcher" to "produce a white paper" is irrelavant. Screw the "white paper", make Windows secure, dammit. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 22:38:43 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:38:43 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021165928.378459ad-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021165928.378459ad@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200610211838.45518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 21 October 2006 16:59, JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:16 -0400 > > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > 2. I run KMail on Linux. Why is it that I still receive spam and > > regularly encounter phishing attempts even though those are > > supposedly "almost exclusively the result of insecurities > > inherent in Microsofts products"? Oh yes. It's all Microsoft's > > fault. > > Talk about 'Straw Man', sheesh. > > What a silly and spurious argument. If I need to explain to you how > the spam gets to you, and yes it is Microsoft's fault, then I don't > know what else to say. I'm inclined to believe you are being a > little intellectually dishonest here, but just in case: > > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html > > http://securityfocus.com/columnists/188 Note the dates on those articles. How many ISPs leave port 25 open these days? > As far as the other points, you're right, I don't know. For some > inexplicable reason you are replying to me but attacking David's > argument. It's not inexplicable at all. I presumed that since you expressed your support for his letter to the Privacy Commissioner, you should be able to defend it as well as he. Agreeing with positions you don't understand or cannot defend is classic fanboy behaviour. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 23:21:37 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:21:37 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press style store In-Reply-To: <453A949C.6010608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <453A949C.6010608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200610211921.37716.marc@lijour.net> On October 21, 2006 05:43 pm, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk. > I'm doing a project for one of my Con-Ed courses at Ryerson > that involves upgrading the I.T. system of a small not-for-profit. The > organization that I am studying doesn't have the volume to justify a > full on e-commerce solution for its merchandise, but would be a nice fit > for a Canadian based Cafe Press style operation. Does anybody here know > of such an enterprise and could post a link? > > TIA > > John Hi John, what course are you taking then? Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 23:59:14 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:59:14 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press stlye store Message-ID: <453AB452.50602@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > what course are you taking then? > > The course is CITM330 Enterprise Solutions and it's the last course I need to complete a certificate in Information Systems Management. It's not however, the course that I wanted to take. That one, Certified Wireless Network Operator was canceled the day before classes were to start and I had to scramble to fill the time slot (I didn't want to extend the certificate into another term). John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 17:43:05 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:43:05 +0000 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021170604.63325187-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <453A5C29.4020505@zleap.net> who is promting these open standards, thats our job as users, developers etc, reading this thread anyone would think we are a bunch of whingers with no solutions so we have to bash the one company who is providing a solution, because we can't do our job properly, if we did our job properly I am sure people would look into more than one soloution, Where is novell, and the other big names when they are needed, (again these are still not canadian companies), MS lead because the alternatives are not marketing themselves properly. Paul >>4. Who is overlooking "solutions based on open standards"? >> >>5. Is this identity meta system a Microsoft technology or does >>Microsoft just happen to have an implementation of an open standard? >> >> > >Now that I'm reading Michael Geist's ( Canada Research Chair of Internet and >E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, clearly one of your 'linux >fanboys' or a 'clod' or 'knee-jerk anti MS', or whatever) blog on this, I do >believe David made some valid points. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 01:00:01 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:00:01 -0400 Subject: Problems with pdftotext Message-ID: <20061022010001.GB24403@waltdnes.org> I intend to write a blog entrey, and possibly send a letter about Ms. Cavoukian's support of "The 7 Laws". I want to include a point-by-point refutation of some of her more outrageous whoppers. I downloaded the PDF file from the Ontario government website, and ran it through pdf2text, so I could include quotes from it. Let's just say that the translation didn't come out 100% perfect. The problems include... 1) You will *NOT* find the string "fi" anywhere in the output. Where you would expect "fi" in a word, you get a sequence of 4 weird non-printable characters. 2) Opening and closing quotes are sequences of 5 non-printable characters. Ditto for apostrophes. Item 2 might be an issue with weird fonts, but item 1 looks like a bug. A couple of questions... 1) Can I over-ride this behaviour with a config file? 2) If not, how do I enter control characters and high-bit ascii into sed? I've copied the weird characters with a vim block copy, and it works, but I'd prefer \0nnn format, if possible. I do have a working sed command file, but I don't like the kludgy look of it. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 01:03:44 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About computer bugs, what they do and how to fight them Message-ID: <20061022010344.46259.qmail@web57108.mail.re3.yahoo.com> http://www.heise.de/ct/english/98/19/156/ Old but good. Peter P. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 01:16:05 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:16:05 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press stlye store In-Reply-To: <453AB452.50602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <453AB452.50602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200610212116.05376.marc@lijour.net> On October 21, 2006 07:59 pm, John McGregor wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > what course are you taking then? > > The course is CITM330 Enterprise Solutions and it's the last course I > need to complete a certificate in Information Systems Management. It's > not however, the course that I wanted to take. That one, Certified > Wireless Network Operator was canceled the day before classes were to > start and I had to scramble to fill the time slot (I didn't want to > extend the certificate into another term). How do you feel it relates to your job? Does it give you an edge? Did you see Miss Universe around? :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 01:22:24 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:22:24 -0400 Subject: Problems with pdftotext In-Reply-To: <20061022010001.GB24403-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061022010001.GB24403@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200610212122.24719.softquake@gmail.com> This reminds of problems of converting between html and pdf. Well, it does not fully work. And it will not. There is no full compatibility between both about how things are supposed to be displayed. Some time ago a fellow asked me if I could convert any HTML to PDF. No, absolutely no. What he meant was not "HTML" in fact but a web page. And now, web pages are so complex often, thats not HTML only anymore, thats JavaScript, using DOM programming, perhaps even Flash. To solve your problem 1) I would use an additional perl script that converts "a sequence of 4 weird non-printable characters" into fi. That way could possibly be used to solve problem 2). I would not trust pdf2text . zb. On Saturday 21 October 2006 21:00, Walter Dnes wrote: > I intend to write a blog entrey, and possibly send a letter about Ms. > Cavoukian's support of "The 7 Laws". I want to include a point-by-point > refutation of some of her more outrageous whoppers. I downloaded the > PDF file from the Ontario government website, and ran it through > pdf2text, so I could include quotes from it. Let's just say that the > translation didn't come out 100% perfect. The problems include... > > 1) You will *NOT* find the string "fi" anywhere in the output. Where > you would expect "fi" in a word, you get a sequence of 4 weird > non-printable characters. > > 2) Opening and closing quotes are sequences of 5 non-printable > characters. Ditto for apostrophes. > > Item 2 might be an issue with weird fonts, but item 1 looks like a > bug. A couple of questions... > 1) Can I over-ride this behaviour with a config file? > 2) If not, how do I enter control characters and high-bit ascii into > sed? I've copied the weird characters with a vim block copy, and it > works, but I'd prefer \0nnn format, if possible. > > I do have a working sed command file, but I don't like the kludgy look > of it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 01:33:53 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:33:53 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610211838.45518.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021165928.378459ad@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211838.45518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061021213353.61c3bac2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:38:43 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > 2. I run KMail on Linux. Why is it that I still receive spam and > > > regularly encounter phishing attempts even though those are > > > supposedly "almost exclusively the result of insecurities > > > inherent in Microsofts products"? Oh yes. It's all Microsoft's > > > fault. > > > > Talk about 'Straw Man', sheesh. > > > > What a silly and spurious argument. If I need to explain to you how > > the spam gets to you, and yes it is Microsoft's fault, then I don't > > know what else to say. I'm inclined to believe you are being a > > little intellectually dishonest here, but just in case: > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html > > > > http://securityfocus.com/columnists/188 > > Note the dates on those articles. How many ISPs leave port 25 open > these days? ...and why do those ISP's *have to* block port 25? Because millions of trivially exploited MS boxes, with their pathetic excuse for 'security', are still spewing spam. > > As far as the other points, you're right, I don't know. For some > > inexplicable reason you are replying to me but attacking David's > > argument. > > Agreeing with positions you don't understand or cannot defend is classic > fanboy behaviour. ? Holy shit, dude, seriously. Would you *relax* with that? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender to Zoidberg: "You're looking less nuts, crabby." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 21 18:41:22 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:41:22 +0000 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021213353.61c3bac2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021165928.378459ad@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211838.45518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021213353.61c3bac2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <453A69D2.9030309@zleap.net> I fail to understnad what this thread has to do with Linux or promoting linux, Any one reading this is going to draw some sort of negative conclusion about the open source community. I am therefore unsubscribing from the mailing list, Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 02:27:49 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problems with pdftotext In-Reply-To: <200610212122.24719.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061022010001.GB24403@waltdnes.org> <200610212122.24719.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > To solve your problem 1) I would use an additional perl script that converts > "a sequence of 4 weird non-printable characters" into fi. That way could > possibly be used to solve problem 2). I would not trust pdf2text . > On Saturday 21 October 2006 21:00, Walter Dnes wrote: >> 1) You will *NOT* find the string "fi" anywhere in the output. Where >> you would expect "fi" in a word, you get a sequence of 4 weird >> non-printable characters. >> 2) Opening and closing quotes are sequences of 5 non-printable >> characters. Ditto for apostrophes. Long ago, some typesetter decided that the letter sequence "fi" looks better if you print the two letters slightly overlapping. Then later the people who came up with unicode decided that the overlapping fi needs it own character and assigned code-point FB01 to "LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI". I would guess that your 4 weird characters are some sort of non-ascii encoding for FB01. Likewise, I would guess that the weird codes for your quotes and apostrophes are for fancy opening or closing single or double quotes instead of the boring both-opening-and-closing " and '. The solution, of course, is as Zbigniew suggested -- use a quickie script to do a search-and-replace. This bit of useless info brought to you by: JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 03:18:02 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:18:02 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061021180534.04105ebe-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061021180534.04105ebe@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1161487083.3972.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I use and promote the advantages of Linux. I dislike the other guys. So what? It's a free world. I'm entitled to my opinion. If you want to do something replace a windows desktop PC with Linux. Pssst pass it on... RickT -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 18:05 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I just keep hoping someone will post some more info on this topic, but all > that's coming in is criticism and undeserved characterizations of the posters > themselves. > > Can we move on? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 03:46:47 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:46:47 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <1161487083.3972.11.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061021180534.04105ebe@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1161487083.3972.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20061021234647.017207c7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:18:02 -0400 Rick Tomaschuk got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I use and promote the advantages of Linux. I dislike the other guys. So > what? It's a free world. I'm entitled to my opinion. If you want to do > something replace a windows desktop PC with Linux. Pssst pass it on... Exactly :) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: I refuse to testify on the grounds that my organs will be chopped up into a patty. Judge Whitey: Ah, the sixty-seventh ammendment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 03:54:51 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:54:51 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <453A5C29.4020505-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021144312.743969c3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610211636.16867.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <453A5C29.4020505@zleap.net> Message-ID: <20061021235451.0a89c879@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:43:05 +0000 paul sutton got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > who is promting these open standards, thats our job as users, > developers etc, reading this thread anyone would think we are a bunch > of whingers with no solutions so we have to bash the one company who is > providing a solution, No, we're pointing out that letting the fox into the henhouse is generally not a good idea. Yes, it is important to suggest alternatives, and that is where I hoped this thread would go, so that I could learn about what those alternatives are. Instead, for the great and hideous crime of criticizing Microsoft, I am labelled a 'clod', 'linux fanboy' (whatever the hell that means), or 'immature'. So be it. I really don't give a rat's ass what you or Clifford think about what I have to say, you're the ones taking this thread offtopic, not me. And if anyone's 'whinging', it's you. What's with this 'I don't like the way you guys are talking, I'm leaving'? Pffffft. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Too bad. If not for the curmudgeons, this coulda been an informative thread. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Bender's flying too low! And he's upside-down! Protestor: He must be talking on a cell-phone. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 04:27:55 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:27:55 -0400 Subject: Redirecting Audio? Message-ID: <20061022042755.GA5721@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I'm sure that there's a way to do this, but I'm not sure where to start. I'd like to redirect audio to a file instead of /dev/dsp Is this doable? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 04:33:07 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:33:07 -0400 Subject: Caanadian Cafe Press style store Message-ID: <453AF483.90206@rogers.com> > > How do you feel it relates to your job? Does it give you an edge? > I have had a part time small business for a while now that services the I.T. needs of older adults. After I finish school, I am going to put a lot of energy into developing it into a full time situation. I've been learning and using Linux on the desktop for some time now and quite frankly, the Windows centric courses at Ryerson didn't teach me a lot more than I already knew. The management courses though were pretty interesting. I have also noticed, now that my time at Ryerson is almost over, that I seem to have more credibility with my target audience. Overall, I would say that the experience has been well worth the effort > Did you see Miss Universe around? :-) No, but that may have been because the women I met during the last two years didn't seem the types to tolerate beauty queens with any great finesse. :lol: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 05:10:30 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:10:30 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press style store In-Reply-To: <453A949C.6010608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <453A949C.6010608@rogers.com> Message-ID: http://www.oscommerce.com may help? John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk. > I'm doing a project for one of my Con-Ed courses at Ryerson > that involves upgrading the I.T. system of a small not-for-profit. The > organization that I am studying doesn't have the volume to justify a > full on e-commerce solution for its merchandise, but would be a nice fit > for a Canadian based Cafe Press style operation. Does anybody here know > of such an enterprise and could post a link? > > TIA > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 09:50:13 2006 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (William E. Henderson) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: emailing myself Message-ID: <20061022054112.K88435@sheppard.torfree.net> I was sure that I used to use _nail_ to email myself the results of cronjobs I haven't done it in years so maybe have misconfigured something. But is there any way to get around the dot or ^D ? using nail Or alternatively I'm not particularly in love with nail and would be happy with any suggesteion that actually work -- Kindest Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 13:30:21 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:30:21 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press stlye store In-Reply-To: <453AB452.50602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <453AB452.50602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <453B726D.4020601@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > >> what course are you taking then? >> >> > The course is CITM330 Enterprise Solutions and it's the last course I > need to complete a certificate in Information Systems Management. It's > not however, the course that I wanted to take. That one, Certified > Wireless Network Operator was canceled the day before classes were to > start and I had to scramble to fill the time slot (I didn't want to > extend the certificate into another term). Don't you just love it when they cancel courses. I never was able to complete my Advanced Certificate in Electrical Engineering at Ryerson, because they kept canceling some of the electives I required. I'd have had to go back and start another elective stream, including prerequisites, to get the missing credits. One term I even took a business communications course, just to fill in my time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 17:32:13 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (P King) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:32:13 -0400 Subject: (OT) U of T "Important Facts" Message-ID: <1161538333.6558.44.camel@gandalf> A friend sent me this link from the U of T Department of Philosophy website, listed under "Important Facts": http://www.philosophy.utoronto.ca/graduate/ld.html?name=Important% 20Facts They should proabably load it with other banal statements such as "It's expensive". Just for a laff! Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 18:25:01 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:25:01 -0400 Subject: (OT) U of T "Important Facts" In-Reply-To: <1161538333.6558.44.camel@gandalf> References: <1161538333.6558.44.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1e55af990610221125x2818b847o8d917918682a2b79@mail.gmail.com> On 10/22/06, P King wrote: > A friend sent me this link from the U of T Department of Philosophy > website, listed under "Important Facts": Funny. I've heard such facts as The physics profs can't play pool. The psychology profs don't have much empathy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 14:53:57 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:53:57 -0400 Subject: Problems with pdftotext In-Reply-To: References: <20061022010001.GB24403@waltdnes.org> <200610212122.24719.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061022145357.GA26127@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 10:27:49PM -0400, John Vetterli wrote > Long ago, some typesetter decided that the letter sequence "fi" looks > better if you print the two letters slightly overlapping. Then later the > people who came up with unicode decided that the overlapping fi needs it > own character and assigned code-point FB01 to "LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI". Interesting. To quote the pdftotext manpage... BUGS Some PDF files contain fonts whose encodings have been mangled beyond recognition. There is no way (short of OCR) to extract text from these files. > The solution, of course, is as Zbigniew suggested -- use a quickie script > to do a search-and-replace. That's what I ended up doing. I copied the non-printable characters into a sed script using vim block mode. A bash script pipes pdftotext's output directly to sed, avoiding an intermediate text file. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 16:02:06 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:02:06 -0400 Subject: Wellness Workshop for IT workers Message-ID: Consider this (as you sit there hunched over that ergonomic disaster, slupring another coffee and craning your neck towards that fat CRT); Matvey Kipershtein was one as cramped, crabby and bloated as you, cranking out code and complaining, but he gave all that up to study the ways of Wellness. On Saturday, Oct 28, Matvey will be holding a workshop, at linuxcaffe, targeted directly towards IT workers, who typically embody the very worst of health and ergonomic practices. So make a note to get your a** out of that chair, drag it on down the the caffe and find out how to avoid becoming one big RSI, while you still can ! check out http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/706 and, if you decide to attend, please let us know via the associated Sign-up dialog. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 15:34:36 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:34:36 -0400 Subject: Canadian Cafe Press style store In-Reply-To: References: <453A949C.6010608@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 22/10/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > http://www.oscommerce.com > may help? If I understand correctly, Mr McGregor is looking for an operation that will produce custom swag (coffee mugs, t-shirts, mousepads, etc.) and ship it out. I haven't seen anything along those lines. There are lots of small t-shirt makers, and companies that will produce swag items to your specs (in relatively large numbers) but so far nothing quite like caffepress, in Canada. Perhaps we've found a niche for some enterprising geeks ? -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 19:57:32 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:57:32 -0400 Subject: Caanadian Cafe Press style store In-Reply-To: <453AF483.90206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <453AF483.90206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061022195733.31DB085517@sarg.ryerson.ca> If you were taking CompSci rather than ITM you would have gotten a larger dose of Linux/Unix, although even we do far more Windows crap than I think is healthy for a young computer scientist. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 22 23:48:55 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:48:55 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <453A5C29.4020505-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <453A5C29.4020505@zleap.net> Message-ID: <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 21 October 2006 13:43, paul sutton wrote: > who is promting these open standards, thats our job as users, > developers etc, reading this thread anyone would think we are a > bunch of whingers with no solutions so we have to bash the one > company who is providing a solution, because we can't do our job > properly, if we did our job properly I am sure people would look > into more than one soloution, > > Where is novell, and the other big names when they are needed, > (again these are still not canadian companies), MS lead because the > alternatives are not marketing themselves properly. I repeat this is not a Microsoft specific solution. Microsoft just happens to have something implemented in Vista that facilitates this identity metasystem . There are other solutions, both proprietary and open, for other operating systems so to characterize Microsoft as "the one company who is providing a solution" is not accurate. Ironically the people who become apoplectic at the mere mention of the word "Microsoft" are the ones who make it seem like Microsoft has the only solution. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 01:01:10 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:01:10 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061021170604.63325187@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <453A5C29.4020505@zleap.net> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 22/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I repeat this is not a Microsoft specific solution. Microsoft just > happens to have something implemented in Vista that facilitates this > identity metasystem . There are other solutions, both proprietary and > open, for other operating systems [snip] Perhaps the best way to avert a pure MonopolySoft security solution is to ensure that viable alternatives/ counterparts exist. Do we know yet what the analogous open source technologies might be ? Other than the bits that made us batty, where is the canonical source of info regarding the venerable " Seven Laws of Identity formulated by Microsoft", and it's related open standards implementations ? If "a two-year collaboration of Internet experts and users led by Microsoft" has been undertaken, where are the resulting findings/ conclusions made public, or is this new security scheme so top-secret we can't be trusted with details ? Who else (other than MS and ON) was in on the development of this spam smashing magic ? Something or other is to be "grafted onto the bare bones of the Internet to create a security layer", have we any idea what is to be grafted ? what bare bones this might refer to ? and if the security layer in question is like any standard we have heard of ? The touted "infocards", how are they different from existing security certs ? Will they make security certificates nonfunctional/ obsolete ? How is this different from Passport ? Will there be a central authority to confirm or deny identity ? If so, where ? Will there be a vetting by impartial security experts before said "bare bones of the Internet" are re-jigged ? Is there a proposed timeframe for implementation, or is it just to early to say ? If "Ms. Cavoukian wants such personal security measures built into the very bones of all security systems being created by companies around the world", is this a brand new global open standard, where everyone's invited, and if so, what's the url, or is Vista gonna be so darned good, it's a foregone conclusion that it will be adopted worlwide ? we gots ta know ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 02:33:23 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:33:23 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Sunday 22 October 2006 21:01, David J Patrick wrote: > On 22/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > I repeat this is not a Microsoft specific solution. Microsoft > > just happens to have something implemented in Vista that > > facilitates this identity metasystem . There are other solutions, > > both proprietary and open, for other operating systems [snip] > > Perhaps the best way to avert a pure MonopolySoft security solution > is to ensure that viable alternatives/ counterparts exist. Can we please discuss this without having to resort to cheap shots and hyperbole? > Do we know yet what the analogous open source technologies might be > ? Other than the bits that made us batty, where is the canonical > source of info regarding the venerable " Seven Laws of Identity > formulated by Microsoft", and it's related open standards > implementations ? If "a two-year collaboration of Internet experts > and users led by Microsoft" has been undertaken, where are the > resulting findings/ conclusions made public, or is this new > security scheme so top-secret we can't be trusted with details ? > Who else (other than MS and ON) was in on the development of this > spam smashing magic ? Who or what is "ON"? The Province of Ontario? > Something or other is to be "grafted onto the bare bones of the > Internet to create a security layer", have we any idea what is to > be grafted ? what bare bones this might refer to ? and if the > security layer in question is like any standard we have heard of ? > > The touted "infocards", how are they different from existing > security certs ? Will they make security certificates > nonfunctional/ obsolete ? How is this different from Passport ? > Will there be a central authority to confirm or deny identity ? If > so, where ? > > Will there be a vetting by impartial security experts before said > "bare bones of the Internet" are re-jigged ? Is there a proposed > timeframe for implementation, or is it just to early to say ? > > If "Ms. Cavoukian wants such personal security measures built into > the very bones of all security systems being created by companies > around the world", is this a brand new global open standard, where > everyone's invited, and if so, what's the url, or is Vista gonna be > so darned good, it's a foregone conclusion that it will be adopted > worlwide ? > > we gots ta know ! > djp A good place to start to get answers to your questions is the Linux Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread. Follow that up with some, well, maybe a lot of, reading about identity systems here: and here: . There are links to other relevant sites at the bottom of the latter page. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 03:08:57 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:08:57 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 22/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Sunday 22 October 2006 21:01, David J Patrick wrote: > > Perhaps the best way to avert a pure MonopolySoft security solution > > is to ensure that viable alternatives/ counterparts exist. > > Can we please discuss this without having to resort to cheap shots and > hyperbole? OK,ok Microsoft, sheesh ! and it's not hyperbole, Clifford, I'm genuinely concerned about a company with an inarguable penchant for monopoly gaining a lock-in on my (and your) security. Don't take it personally, I respect and appreciate your point of view. > Who or what is "ON"? The Province of Ontario? yes > > A good place to start to get answers to your questions is the Linux > Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread. Follow that up > with some, well, maybe a lot of, reading about identity systems here: > and here: . There are > links to other relevant sites at the bottom of the latter page. excellent ! thanks Cliff, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 03:26:03 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Oct 2006, David J Patrick wrote: > On 22/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> On Sunday 22 October 2006 21:01, David J Patrick wrote: > >> > Perhaps the best way to avert a pure MonopolySoft security solution >> > is to ensure that viable alternatives/ counterparts exist. >> >> Can we please discuss this without having to resort to cheap shots and >> hyperbole? > OK,ok Microsoft, sheesh ! and it's not hyperbole, Clifford, I'm > genuinely concerned about a company with an inarguable penchant for > monopoly gaining a lock-in on my (and your) security. We are all concerned about MS, but they give us enough ammunition that we don't have to fire blanks. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 03:46:52 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:46:52 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: Google is your friend: identity metasystem - http://www.google.ca/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=identity%20metasystem The first neutral-looking result there is http://www.identitygang.org/ So, it's hard to tell just how involved MS is in all of this, but initially I would say that an extremely adverse reaction to this is unwarranted. Suspicion may be helpful, but the real questions are what is the standard in question, who controls it, and how open is it to participation from third parties. Not everything Microsoft is involved in have to be bad, it's a matter of asking these questions and seeing whether they're behaving or not. To be clear, I think any distrust of Microsoft is consistently well-justified by their previous actions, but it can't be so extreme as to be unreasonable. Unfortunately, many people take them seriously, and if they see anyone hysterically bashing them, they're more inclined to side with Microsoft rather than the hysterical bashers. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 03:56:02 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:56:02 -0400 Subject: emailing myself In-Reply-To: <20061022054112.K88435-wb4oErDHZp6sJdpSwXFu3uTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061022054112.K88435@sheppard.torfree.net> Message-ID: I think ssmtp would be applicable to your needs? Very lightweight MTA. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 03:57:33 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:57:33 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 22/10/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 22/10/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > A good place to start to get answers to your questions is the Linux > > Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread. Wow ! That's enlightening ! Refreshing, even ! This is me doing a 175 degree turnaround ! Sounds like this Kim Cameron fellow (former Torontonian) might just have his head screwed on correctly ! There's hope. > > Follow that up > > with some, well, maybe a lot of, reading about identity systems here: > > and here: . There are > > links to other relevant sites at the bottom of the latter page. There's a LOT to learn here, not least of which is that Microsoft employees are not all soul-crushing Darth Vaderesque marauders looking to enter signed-in-blood contracts with you and your great-great-grandchildren... mostly, but not all ! ;-) thanks for the illumination, I'll point my panic ray somewheres else. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 04:08:43 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:08:43 -0400 Subject: Linux Today - Community: Why There is Better Driver Support in 64-bit Linux Than 64-bit Windows XP In-Reply-To: <4536E998.2020807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4536E998.2020807@rogers.com> Message-ID: Damn right, haha.. One of the easiest things to point to as an advantage of free software is the portability - you can't port it if you don't have the code or the license. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 04:23:29 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:23:29 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061023002329.343d34f3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:08:57 -0400 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > A good place to start to get answers to your questions is the Linux > > Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread. Follow that up > > with some, well, maybe a lot of, reading about identity systems here: > > and here: . There are > > links to other relevant sites at the bottom of the latter page. > > excellent ! > thanks Cliff, This is what it all comes down to? "There is an improvement I want to see, and it's something only Independent Identities can produce. I want anybody to be able to pay for anything on a voluntary basis, because I believe the voluntary ability to pay whatever one wants is at the heart of a free and open marketplace. I also believe we haven't experienced that power since the Industrial Revolution put huge suppliers in charge, even of democratic governments. We certainly haven't had it since the invention of the price tag." Oh yeah, excellent idea. And just how long do you think the 'voluntary' part is going to last? Let's put all this technology to work so we can put a price tag on *everything*. Why should we even begin to trust Microsoft's involvement in any of this, despite the 'brilliance' of people like Kim? What possible place does Microsoft have in a 'free and open marketplace', or even designing the technology to supposedly bring one about? None of this is addressed in the linuxjournal piece. Pfeh. This guy's in dreamland. Keynes (a capitalist) said it best: "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." If Ballmer et al are any example...any involvement by people with their kind of sociopathy is dangerous to any public good the 'Net may still have to serve. This is all about turning the 'Net into one big lame virtual Shopping Mall, guaranteed. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Paul: If rubbin' frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 04:25:16 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:25:16 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061023002516.220dce30@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:33:23 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Linux Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread With the *highly appropriate* title: Linux for Suits Oh joy. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. Zoidberg: "Okay, so you're nonchalant, stop rubbing our noses in it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 04:37:10 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:37:10 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061023003710.1db09e82@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:46:52 -0400 Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Not everything Microsoft is involved in have to be bad, it's a matter of > asking these questions and seeing whether they're behaving or not. Bingo. > To be clear, I think any distrust of Microsoft is consistently well-justified > by their previous actions, but it can't be so extreme as to be unreasonable. I'm not saying 'No Way, Shut Them Out'. That's not going to happen. But as you said, it is not unwarranted to keep a *very* sharp eye on exactly how tied in they are to the technology, and whose purposes will ultimately be served. This is not addressed well in the technical discussion. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Computer: "Leela, you've got mail. It's not spam!" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 04:58:20 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:58:20 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <453C4BEC.1090703@utoronto.ca> Simon wrote: > Google is your friend: > identity metasystem - > http://www.google.ca/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=identity%20metasystem > > The first neutral-looking result there is http://www.identitygang.org/ > > So, it's hard to tell just how involved MS is in all of this, but > initially I would say that an extremely adverse reaction to this is > unwarranted. Suspicion may be helpful, but the real questions are > what is the standard in question, who controls it, and how open is it > to participation from third parties. Not everything Microsoft is > involved in have to be bad, it's a matter of asking these questions > and seeing whether they're behaving or not. The real question in my mind is how necessary something like this standard is in the first place. 20 years from now when you can't login to your own (networked or not?) computer without your SIN number (or digital identity metasystem equivalent thereof), you might recall this very question. Consider: Law #1: "Technical identity systems must only reveal information identifying a user with the user?s consent." So just like a shrinkwrap license, by using a system on which you'll invariably have to login to authenticate yourself as a legitimate user, by means of your digital identity of course, you implicitly agree to disclose your information. Simple really. Law #2: "The solution that discloses the least amount of identifying information and best limits its use is the most stable long-term solution." See "AOL search records" at your local google mirror for a little something something. From The Washington Post: "Michael Arrington, editor of the blog TechCrunch, said some of the data contained credit card numbers, Social Security numbers, addresses and names." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080701150.html We're just getting started here, there are 5 more "laws" to go, and I'm not the only one with objections. > To be clear, I think any distrust of Microsoft is consistently > well-justified by their previous actions, but it can't be so extreme > as to be unreasonable. Unfortunately, many people take them > seriously, and if they see anyone hysterically bashing them, they're > more inclined to side with Microsoft rather than the hysterical > bashers. See this link for something unreasonable having to do with IE7. Oh yes, and try it from windows with firefox -- same problem. http://www.openrowley.com/2006/10/11/web-2-oh-dear-opinity-only-wants-microsoft-identity-selectors/ I too am going to have to do more than just post on this thread about the inaneness of such a system and the very real prospect of it becoming coopted rather quickly by those governments and companies seeking to implement an identity metasystem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 08:04:42 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:04:42 -0400 Subject: Redirecting Audio? In-Reply-To: <20061022042755.GA5721-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061022042755.GA5721@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: It's surely doable without morphing into a code monkey, but how to do it is another story. Sorry I can't be any more help, but I figure this answer is somewhat better than nothing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 08:13:50 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:13:50 -0400 Subject: Redirecting Audio? In-Reply-To: References: <20061022042755.GA5721@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I might add that if you're willing to mess with code, skype_dsp_hijacker is probably an excellent starting point, it should should be trivial to modify that code to extract sound data from whatever application you want to siphon a recording out of. However, I'm not sure how to convert that data into a standard format, or use it, if it's already in a standard format. See http://195.38.3.142:6502/skype/ for the code I'm referring to. It already sits in between the app and /dev/dsp, you'd just have to add a few lines to the library code to write to a file. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 08:22:37 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:22:37 -0400 Subject: Redirecting Audio? In-Reply-To: References: <20061022042755.GA5721@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Another source for the code is http://juljas.net/linux/skype/index.html#hijacker It's up to you which release to use, the 0.7 release is fine, but the newest version of Skype finally supports ALSA, so that's why there's a 0.8. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 08:26:24 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:26:24 -0400 Subject: tolken97 translation software under Linux/Wine ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you've never used wine (or haven't used it in the past 6-12 months), I recommend taking the plunge using the latest version off of winehq, it's improved drastically since I first tried it a year ago. However, if you're asking cause this app specifically takes extra effort to try out, then never mind. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 08:32:54 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:32:54 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <45376390.1030407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> <45360D54.5040801@rogers.com> <45376390.1030407@rogers.com> Message-ID: Err... MS is not involved, I was using Firefox/Linux as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 12:58:36 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:58:36 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061023002329.343d34f3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002329.343d34f3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 23/10/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:08:57 -0400 > David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > excellent ! > > thanks Cliff, > > This is what it all comes down to? well, no, but in following the research trail, left by our esteemed colleague, I see that the proposed solution is based on a simple, existing, open standard, platform agnostic, and might actually work. Microsoft Vistas identacard implementation is just that; one vendors approach that is designed from the ground up to interact with any other vendors implementation. > > "There is an improvement I want to see, and it's something only Independent > Identities can produce. I want anybody to be able to pay for anything on a > voluntary basis, because I believe the voluntary ability to pay whatever one > wants is at the heart of a free and open marketplace. One OpenID design touchstone is to allow "anybody to pay anybody using any method". It shuns the "vendor-centric ID silo" in favour of a broadly distributed system where I have maximal control of my data. > I also believe we haven't > experienced that power since the Industrial Revolution put huge suppliers in > charge, even of democratic governments. We certainly haven't had it since the > invention of the price tag." I see that and it seems the champions of OpenID (not just MS) do too. > > Oh yeah, excellent idea. And just how long do you think the 'voluntary' > part is going to last? Let's put all this technology to work so we can put a > price tag on *everything*. Everything already has a pricetag, and sometimes it's $0. > Why should we even begin to trust Microsoft's > involvement in any of this, despite the 'brilliance' of people like Kim? In broad strokes, we shouldn't trust them. Their history of deceit, backstabbing and monopoly-making is unparalleled, but in this case it seems as though they've hired someone with enough vision to realize that a proprietary solution for ID will be utterly unacceptable, and therefor impossible to implement. If Kims goals are broadly inclusive, OSS-aware and acceptable to both Doc Searles and Dave Winer, I breath easier. > What > possible place does Microsoft have in a 'free and open marketplace', or even > designing the technology to supposedly bring one about? Like it or lump it, 9 out of 10 computer users sit in front of Windows boxes. No widespread technological advances can happen without them. As consolation, FLOSS is now entrenched and viable and strong enough that the folks in Redmond are starting to make concessions. They've seen what happens when they jump in with jackboots on (see EU anti-trust actions and backlash from "viral" and "communist" statements) > > None of this is addressed in the linuxjournal piece. Pfeh. This guy's in > dreamland. > > Keynes (a capitalist) said it best: > > "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the > most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." That is the mindblowing position we find ourselves in ! Capitalism-R-us. It will be a long row to hoe before we enjoy.. whatever the preferred alternative might be. > > If Ballmer et al are any example...any involvement by people with their kind of > sociopathy is dangerous to any public good the 'Net may still have to serve. > This is all about turning the 'Net into one big lame virtual Shopping Mall, > guaranteed. Don't get me wrong; Microsoft is not to be trusted, and I wouldn't touch Vista with a long pointy stick, but the Interweb is what we make it. As is our glorious free society. We really have no-one to blame but our SUV drivin', lawn watterin', iPod lovin', Home Depot shoppin', XP installin' selves. Want to change it ? Yeah, me too, so keep fightin' the good fight, Joe, but try to be patient and inclusive, lest we lose potential allies. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 13:04:28 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:04:28 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061023002516.220dce30-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002516.220dce30@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 23/10/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:33:23 -0400 > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > Linux Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread > > With the *highly appropriate* title: Linux for Suits > > Oh joy. Wanna see widespread adoption of open source and open standards ? Wanna see it elevated beyond geeks and IT hobbiasts ? Well if it won't work for the "suits", it won't work. period. The suits write the cheques. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 13:43:03 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:43:03 -0400 Subject: Kyle MacDonald Message-ID: This should hopefully include Kyle's new house. The channel numbers may not match yours (I use Bell ExpressVu) but the stations IDs should be enough. > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 200 - CBNT CBC > St. John's Wed Oct 25, 2006, 06:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 203 - CBHT > (CBC Halifax) Wed Oct 25, 2006, 06:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 206 - CBMT - > CBC Montreal Wed Oct 25, 2006, 07:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 208 - CBOT CBC > Ottawa Wed Oct 25, 2006, 07:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 210 - CBLT - > CBC Toronto Wed Oct 25, 2006, 07:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 226 - CBC > Winnipeg 71 Wed Oct 25, 2006, 08:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 242 - CFYK > Wed Oct 25, 2006, 09:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 245 - CBRT - > CBC Calgary Wed Oct 25, 2006, 09:30 PM > 30 mins > Venture's Dreamers & Schemers > > Kyle MacDonald's scheme of bartering on the Internet. 251 - CBC > (Vancouver) (CBUT) Wed Oct 25, 2006, 10:30 PM > 30 mins > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 13:50:13 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:50:13 -0400 Subject: Kyle MacDonald-ack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ack! sorry about the formatting. before i sent it the tables looked fine. i sent it in text only. Teddy David Mills wrote: > > This should hopefully include Kyle's new house. > The channel numbers may not match yours (I use Bell ExpressVu) but the > stations IDs should be enough. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From magog-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 14:24:28 2006 From: magog-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Michael Graham) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:24:28 -0400 Subject: Andy Lester speaking in Toronto this Thurs Oct 26 Message-ID: <20061023102428.57f92092@caliope> Andy Lester will be speaking at the Toronto Perl Mongers meeting this Thursday (Oct 26, 2006). His topics: * Get Out of Technical Debt Now! * The Open Source Programmer's Guide to Getting a Great Job These talks are not Perl-specific - they will be of general interest to programmers, sysadmins and other technical people. All are welcome - admission is free! Details: (This info is also on the Toronto Perl Mongers site: http://to.pm.org/) Speaker: Andy Lester Date: Thursday 26 Oct 2006 Time: 6:45pm Where: 2 Bloor Street West (NW corner of Yonge/Bloor, skyscraper with the CIBC logo on top) Floor/Classroom TBA =================================================================== Talk Details: Andy Lester has used Perl for over a decade, has written or maintains a number of modules you probably use every day, and works on public relations for the Perl Foundation. But for his double-header talk for October 26th, Perl is barely a mention. First up, Andy will speak on technical debt and how to get out of it. Technical debt is that nasty condition companies get into where the codebase is crufty, poorly documented, and hard to test, and everyone is terrified of changing anything. Just like financial debt, it's the compound interest on technical debt that snowballs until you can no longer effectively do projects: technical bankruptcy. Come learn how to pay down your biggest debts before that happens. Second, Andy discusses pragmatic job hunting for technical people. He'll talk about how finding and landing a job isn't a matter of luck, and how to make yourself stand out in a sea of job applicants. Come ready to unlearn the conventional wisdom about all aspects of the job hunt, from where to find jobs, how to write a resume, and what to do in an interview. "In my years of hiring programmers, I've seen some pretty awful mistakes, and some awfully funny ones," he says. Come learn how to avoid the mistakes and get the job you want. This evening of talks is of general interest to programmers, sysadmins and other technical people, not just Perl Mongers. Tell your friends! =================================================================== Note: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too. -- Michael Graham -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 14:28:25 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:28:25 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610211512v1fbbc779r8cd87a78511606ac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A32FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <32f6a8880610211512v1fbbc779r8cd87a78511606ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061023142825.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 06:12:02PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Too bad you didnt buy the PVR-150 it works real well with the blaster > > I've gotit set up with Rogers Digital Cable works nicely How is the 150 different than the 250 (other than being smaller profile)? You still have to get an ir blaster no matter what. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 14:33:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:33:08 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <453A59E2.4030907-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 01:33:22PM -0400, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. > Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. > I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. > > Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to > channel 13, > and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power of > MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. > > I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, > you ask? > Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its > own. > This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 > remote when watching TV on MythTV. > (so I think it is 99% correct) > > If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont > need anything special to switch Rogers channels) > However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent > picture quality) > > The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the > Bell supplied > NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. Anything that requires a decoder box basically requires an ir blaster to send remote control signals to the decoder box to change channels. Capture cards only support over the air and cable tv, since those are the two that are standardized. If you were in europe your box would probably use DVB of some kind and it would be much easier to get something compatible with it for capturing. In north america we are stuck with whatever our monopolistic providers wants to let us have. Certainly cablecard seems dead, with the providers wanting to wait until they get their 2way standard finished instead that doesn't require cards, although it seems that is going nowhere so far. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 15:38:52 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:38:52 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002516.220dce30@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061023113852.2224b746@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:04:28 -0400 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Well if it won't work for the "suits", it won't work. period. Well, that's a pretty big assumption, thar Tex. In reality, unfortunately, you will very likely turn out to be right. But there are those Stallmanites (yeah, I know) who believe there is a better way to go about this. There's always hope :) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Eureka!" -Professor "Did you build the Smell-o-scope?" -Fry "No. I remembered that I built one last year." -Professor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 15:51:05 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:51:05 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS Message-ID: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> I have several Redhat AS3 servers. When I log in via ssh -Y, some systems create a .Xauthorty file while other don't. All systems have the XFree86-xauth rpm installed. What triggers the creation of the .Xauthority file? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 15:57:01 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Oct 24 NewTLUG meeting: Unison, Open Office 2.0.4, process operators && and || (reminder) Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Oct 24th., at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. Date: Tues Oct 24th. Time: 7 - 10pm Topics: 1) Unison: the file-synchronization tool (not the speaking-with-one-voice state ;-) - a tool for Unix and Windows. It allows two replicas of a collection of files and directories to be stored on different hosts (or different disks on the same host), modified separately, and then brought up to date by propagating the changes in each replica to the other. 2) A reprise of the OpenOffice.org demo/lecture paying special attention to the features in 2.0.4 3) Command Line 101: the process operators: && and || or as Matt says: 'an examination into shell truthiness' Presenters: 1) Unison: Evan Leibovitch 2) Gerry Singleton Gerry created and published the OpenOffice.org User Guide - the one that comes packaged with Open Office. He is Co-Lead of the current team that contributes documentation to the project. and Louis Suarez-Potts Louis is the OpenOffice.org Community Manager and has broad overall knowledge of the OOo Project. Location: Room S1209 (lower kaleidoscope room) Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca at York note that this room is different from the usual one. Building number 40 on the map: http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. (note that this room is different from the usual one) Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFOsFWU+pQaeEFGGARAlZ7AJ0ahNsH7aza3RuDJFlWmTd/Ru6BegCcCDCv OkNwA0YeP7utKFxabGa8DNc= =WEp4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk-Q3LYrvjeUVfMLq2q1+GOoQ at public.gmane.org http://www.newtlug.linux.ca/mailman/listinfo/talk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 16:13:21 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:13:21 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610221948.55986.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002329.343d34f3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061023121321.04d68a08@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:58:36 -0400 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > This is what it all comes down to? > well, no, but in following the research trail, left by our esteemed > colleague, I see that the proposed solution is based on a simple, > existing, open standard, platform agnostic, and might actually work. > Microsoft Vistas identacard implementation is just that; one vendors > approach that is designed from the ground up to interact with any > other vendors implementation. Actually, what I was addressing was the final 'conclusion' of the paper, that we're entering a wonderful new world of...uh, buying stuff. Yay. At least that's the sense I got. The technical part is all well and good, it's how it ends up being used that concerns me, and, I believe, a lot of others. > > > > "There is an improvement I want to see, and it's something only Independent > > Identities can produce. I want anybody to be able to pay for anything on a > > voluntary basis, because I believe the voluntary ability to pay whatever one > > wants is at the heart of a free and open marketplace. > One OpenID design touchstone is to allow "anybody to pay anybody using > any method". It shuns the "vendor-centric ID silo" in favour of a > broadly distributed system where I have maximal control of my data. Here I was quoting the article, that's not me talkin' ;) I *mostly* grok what Kim has come up with, and no, I certainly do not take away from its brilliance simply because he works for MS. See below. > > I also believe we haven't experienced that power since the Industrial > > Revolution put huge suppliers in charge, even of democratic governments. We > > certainly haven't had it since the invention of the price tag." > I see that and it seems the champions of OpenID (not just MS) do too. Again, yer answering my quote from the article, not me. Shoulda made that plainer. This is my concern... This sounds just too much to me like handing waaaaay too many mechanisms for exploiting the Internet for $ to private enterprise, but then I've been called a 'commie' before, so... > > Oh yeah, excellent idea. And just how long do you think the 'voluntary' > > part is going to last? Let's put all this technology to work so we can put a > > price tag on *everything*. > Everything already has a pricetag, and sometimes it's $0. Uh Huh, and for how long? We're talking Bill Gates here, the guy that referred to people who were against software patents as 'Communists'. How many times has MS tried to take as its own, so-called 'open standards'? How many times have they tried to sneak in and grab what isn't theirs? > > Why should we even begin to trust Microsoft's involvement in any of this, > > despite the 'brilliance' of people like Kim? > In broad strokes, we shouldn't trust them. Their history of deceit, > backstabbing and monopoly-making is unparalleled, but in this case it > seems as though they've hired someone with enough vision to realize > that a proprietary solution for ID will be utterly unacceptable, and > therefor impossible to implement. If Kims goals are broadly inclusive, > OSS-aware and acceptable to both Doc Searles and Dave Winer, I breath > easier. Yes, Kim's 'vision' is brilliant, but how long before MS decides what came out of that brilliance, and all associated technologies, belong to them? Kim won't have a say in that. I guess this is what it comes down to for me: Doc Searles' dreamy vision of Microsoft playing nice with all the other kids is pushed as 'realistic', whereas us 'Linux Fan Boys', who see 'Microsoft' and 'Privacy' and 'Security' in the same sentence and go 'Whoa!' are written off as crazies. It's a mixed up world, that's for sure. But, if *you're* breathing easier, I guess I will too :) Be keepin' my eyes on those suckers, tho, as always. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 16:29:47 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:29:47 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <20061023143308.GO30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> The PVR-150 is basically the same as the 250 from what i've heard. PVR-150 is just a newer model. If you use the PVR-150 you'll have to go to Marks Brain Dump and get his modified version of LIRC http://www.blushingpenguin.com/mark/blog/?p=24 If you would like a comparison you can go here: http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/compare/compare_pvr.html The PVR-150 is the only one with the blaster that I know of built in , the PVR-150 MCE does not have one. But I have it working with my TV-OUT and through mythtv it works. I love it. Haven't regretted it since buying it. On 10/23/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 01:33:22PM -0400, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. > > Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. > > I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. > > > > Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to > > channel 13, > > and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power > of > > MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. > > > > I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is that, > > you ask? > > Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on its > > own. > > This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 > > remote when watching TV on MythTV. > > (so I think it is 99% correct) > > > > If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! (dont > > need anything special to switch Rogers channels) > > However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has excellent > > picture quality) > > > > The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the > > Bell supplied > > NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. > > Anything that requires a decoder box basically requires an ir blaster to > send remote control signals to the decoder box to change channels. > Capture cards only support over the air and cable tv, since those are > the two that are standardized. > > If you were in europe your box would probably use DVB of some kind and > it would be much easier to get something compatible with it for > capturing. In north america we are stuck with whatever our monopolistic > providers wants to let us have. Certainly cablecard seems dead, with > the providers wanting to wait until they get their 2way standard > finished instead that doesn't require cards, although it seems that is > going nowhere so far. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 17:12:06 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:12:06 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610231012w24d32cd8p419b0f1a13ab3c01@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Just some additional information (You can find this on Marks BrainDump) But here is a a list of the following SetTop Boxes that the PVR-150 Supports. http://www.blushingpenguin.com/mark/lmilk/IRcodesets.html On 10/23/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > The PVR-150 is basically the same as the 250 from what i've heard. PVR-150 > is just a newer model. > > If you use the PVR-150 you'll have to go to Marks Brain Dump and get his > modified version of LIRC > > http://www.blushingpenguin.com/mark/blog/?p=24 > > If you would like a comparison you can go here: > > http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/compare/compare_pvr.html > > The PVR-150 is the only one with the blaster that I know of built in , > the PVR-150 MCE does not have one. > > But I have it working with my TV-OUT and through mythtv it works. I > love it. Haven't regretted it since buying it. > > On 10/23/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 01:33:22PM -0400, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > > > MythTV is all working, but will only record the default tv channel. > > > Expressvu for condos by default uses channel 3,8 and 13. > > > I set the PVR-250 to record off channel 13. > > > > > > Thus if I want mythtv to record something, I have to change my TV to > > > channel 13, > > > and then do a MANUAL RECORD of channel 13. This is not using the power > > of > > > MythTV's Program Guide and Program Finder. > > > > > > I cannot use the Program Guide or Program Finder in MythTV. Why is > > that, > > > you ask? > > > Because the Hauppage PVR-250 does not know how to switch channels on > > its > > > own. > > > This is strange because I can switch them using the Hauppage PVR-250 > > > remote when watching TV on MythTV. > > > (so I think it is 99% correct) > > > > > > If only I were using Rogers, the channel tuning would be working! > > (dont > > > need anything special to switch Rogers channels) > > > However I am using Bell ExpressVu for Condos. (which btw has > > excellent > > > picture quality) > > > > > > The only way to change channels anywhere on anything is by using the > > > Bell supplied > > > NEXTLEVEL COMMUNICATIONS remotes. > > > > Anything that requires a decoder box basically requires an ir blaster to > > send remote control signals to the decoder box to change channels. > > Capture cards only support over the air and cable tv, since those are > > the two that are standardized. > > > > If you were in europe your box would probably use DVB of some kind and > > it would be much easier to get something compatible with it for > > capturing. In north america we are stuck with whatever our monopolistic > > > > providers wants to let us have. Certainly cablecard seems dead, with > > the providers wanting to wait until they get their 2way standard > > finished instead that doesn't require cards, although it seems that is > > going nowhere so far. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 18:41:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:41:35 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061023184135.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:29:47PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > The PVR-150 is basically the same as the 250 from what i've heard. PVR-150 > is just a newer model. > > If you use the PVR-150 you'll have to go to Marks Brain Dump and get his > modified version of LIRC > > http://www.blushingpenguin.com/mark/blog/?p=24 > > If you would like a comparison you can go here: > > http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/compare/compare_pvr.html > > The PVR-150 is the only one with the blaster that I know of built in , > the PVR-150 MCE does not have one. > > But I have it working with my TV-OUT and through mythtv it works. I > love it. Haven't regretted it since buying it. I didn't even realize there was a 150 (non MCE). I use a PVR-500MCE myself. Blaster certainly is a nice feature to include, for those that need one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 19:40:32 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:40:32 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <20061023002516.220dce30-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002516.220dce30@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200610231540.34079.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 23 October 2006 00:25, JoeHill wrote: > On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:33:23 -0400 > > CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > Linux Journal article I referenced earlier in this thread > > With the *highly appropriate* title: Linux for Suits > > Oh joy. That is the title of the monthly column, not the article. Doc Searls is one of the few tech journalists who does a good job of explaining FLOSS to business people. I've recommended Linux Journal subscriptions to people who don't even run Linux just for that column alone. You really should read his articles in back issues of LJ before being so dismissive of him. They're available on-line. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 20:52:03 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:52:03 -0400 Subject: Sickening shilling for MS by Ontario privacy commissioner In-Reply-To: <200610231540.34079.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20061023002516.220dce30@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200610231540.34079.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061023165203.28d88e3d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:40:32 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > With the *highly appropriate* title: Linux for Suits > > > > Oh joy. > > That is the title of the monthly column, not the article. Doc Searls > is one of the few tech journalists who does a good job of explaining > FLOSS to business people. I've recommended Linux Journal > subscriptions to people who don't even run Linux just for that column > alone. You really should read his articles in back issues of LJ > before being so dismissive of him. They're available on-line. Sorry, I didn't mean to be 'dismissive', it's just my experience with people who wear 'suits' that gives me the willies. Perhaps I should walk a mile in another man's slacks? Eeeewww. ;) I know that, as David J. pointed out, we gotta deal with the 'suits' at least on some level. I just wish everything didn't always seem to come down to who has the bucks. As I said to David, I really hope that the Internet does not end up as just one big shopping mall, and that's the sense I'm getting from all of this. I am not without hope though, look how far we've come since '94, and for most of that time there was very little money involved. I'm 38, but I guess I haven't gotten rid of that idealistic streak, ya know? Oh, and glad we're not calling each other names anymore :) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Leela, there's nothing wrong with anything. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 22:27:55 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:27:55 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech Message-ID: i do not been watching the computer shows, dotto tech or g4 regularly. marcel gagne is a semi regular on which one of these shows? would either of these shows be receptive to more open source solutions-presentations? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 22:41:39 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:41:39 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: pretty sure it would be G4 Tech Call for Help, since Dotto Tech is produced in BC. Teddy David Mills wrote: > > i do not been watching the computer shows, dotto tech or g4 regularly. > marcel gagne is a semi regular on which one of these shows? > > would either of these shows be receptive to more open source > solutions-presentations? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 23:10:16 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT Happy to see Liniux in Daytona During BiketOberfest Message-ID: <1161645016.453d4bd8c157f@webmail.golden.net> Well I'm down here a week in Sunny Daytona Beach Florida, walked into my Timeshare (yep I'm a sucker) and found Knoppix Linux loaded up on the general purpose PC. Just happpy to see it...... thought I'd share it. Too bad I can't share the 90 F weather and cold beer by the ocean front ;-) I can only hope to bring the good weather back with me when I return. Well I know I'll have lots of Duty Free beer ! John -------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through WebMail | Courtesy of Execulink -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 01:43:06 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:43:06 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Teddy David Mills wrote: > i do not been watching the computer shows, dotto tech or g4 regularly. > marcel gagne is a semi regular on which one of these shows? I had the fortune to exchange views with Steve Dotto about two years ago, while we were both waiting to be interviewed on CP24's "HomePage" segment. I asked Dotto why he never mentioned Linux on his show. He said he'd be glad to as soon as Linux paid him to do so. Yeah, that was how he said it. As if "Linux" was a company. The conversation didn't go very well after that. I think he'd taken exception to my use of the phrase "media whore". Thanks to that conversation Dotto's shows have all been, to me, nothing but infomercials. OTOH, Marcel has been a semi-regular on G4's "Call for Help": http://tuxspot.blogspot.com/2006/04/marcel-gagne-on-call-for-help.html - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 02:31:20 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:31:20 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: <453D6FAA.2070805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061023223120.0eb6a04f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:43:06 -0400 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > The conversation didn't go very well after that. I think he'd taken > exception to my use of the phrase "media whore". LOL! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Oh my god, you knocked Fox off the air!" -TV worker guy "Like anyone on earth cares." -Fry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 23 23:29:38 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:29:38 Subject: is open office ready for university? In-Reply-To: <20061018171524.GB9752-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200610172252.45427.softquake@gmail.com> <4535C5BF.384.18496AA@sciguy.vex.net> <20061018171524.GB9752@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20061023232938.9297bade@mail.look.ca> A Sun Microsystems of Canada Inc. employee said: StarOffice does a better job at importing some MSFT documents than OpenOffice since it has some bits of code OpenOffice doesn't have. It also has a better spellchecker, more clip art and a couple other less important things. I exchange MSFT documents everyday with clients and haven't used MS Office in almost 5 years. StarOffice is just the commercial version of OpenOffice and it works pretty well. Both tools are quite good. StarOffice is the official productivity quite of UofT Scarborough Campus according to their website, if that helps out. Staroffice is worth the $60 or whatever it is since it can do things better. On the other hand - how often do most users need this better functionality? Some people need it regularly becuase of the role at a company, but most people never need it. Typical Student discount for MS Office still puts it around $150+ CAD for "Student and Teacher Edition". As for 'needing to know MS Office' there is a catch with that; by the time the students in school now get out, the user interface will be radically different in MS Office. If you haven't seen the U.I. in MS Office 2007, you are in for a surprise. I am in no way passing judgement that it is better or it is worse. Only telling you it is a LOT different. Moving from MS office to StarOffice or OpenOffice is a snap, but moving from MS Office (current version) to MS office 2007 will not be so easy. Regardless, the UI is changing a lot on the MS Office side so learning MS Office now buys you very little in the future. Unfortunately. About Comments and Notes: Depends on how these things are used. If you have a draft of a document one would typically use the Record/Show changes feature (which interoperates just fine with the MS office Track Changes feature). If you want to insert a comment then the Notes feature works well (for me) in NeoOffice (on Mac) or StarOffice. I assume that it would work the same way on OpenOffice. If you need someone's complex macros and whatnot written in VB Script, then StarOffice should accomodate that. Staroffice also allows you to create new macros in VB Script, Javascript or Java as well. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 05:49:47 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: <453D6FAA.2070805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I asked Dotto why he never mentioned Linux on his show. He said he'd be > glad to as soon as Linux paid him to do so. > Yeah, that was how he said it. As if "Linux" was a company. > The conversation didn't go very well after that. I think he'd taken exception > to my use of the phrase "media whore". Rotfl :) I was as a high performance computing conference today and someone actually said words very close to "how can something without monetary value be worth anything". This was infact in reference to a CA service being provided free within accademia but the implications for OSS stood out to most people in the room. It was an interesting experience to watch most of the people in the room turn their head and look at him with a variety of expressions. No one said a word :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 11:00:42 2006 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (William E. Henderson) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: gnus with NO-IP alternate smtp port Message-ID: <20061024065402.W57069@sheppard.torfree.net> I have tried numerous ways to send the authorization string without success can anyone advise me exactly what I should send to the NO_IP server -- Kindest Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 15:23:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:23:32 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: <453D6FAA.2070805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061024152332.GQ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 09:43:06PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I had the fortune to exchange views with Steve Dotto about two years > ago, while we were both waiting to be interviewed on CP24's "HomePage" > segment. > > I asked Dotto why he never mentioned Linux on his show. He said he'd be > glad to as soon as Linux paid him to do so. That really explains the format of the show. Every presentation always seemed like an infomertial for the product being "tested". It always seemed odd to me in a way, and for some reason it never occoured to me that it was all just due to money. He never seems to have anything negative to say about a product even when something is obviously very stupid about what is being shown. So he is all about making money, and not at all about making computer users better off. Good to know. I will add him to the list of people to ignore (along with for example John C. Dvorak.) > Yeah, that was how he said it. As if "Linux" was a company. > > The conversation didn't go very well after that. I think he'd taken > exception to my use of the phrase "media whore". > > Thanks to that conversation Dotto's shows have all been, to me, nothing > but infomercials. > > OTOH, Marcel has been a semi-regular on G4's "Call for Help": > http://tuxspot.blogspot.com/2006/04/marcel-gagne-on-call-for-help.html Never seen it, but probably a much more useful show. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 15:32:23 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? Message-ID: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Question, Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get together at some location and do a hands on look at building a dedicated MythTV box. My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an article on KnoppMyth, which makes the set-up/install of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In other words I am looking for some test subjects to see if I can beak this down to a new user level... Basic idea would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it into a MythTV box... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 15:44:16 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:44:16 -0400 Subject: value / money In-Reply-To: References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Message-ID: <1161704657.23009.250.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-24-10 at 01:49 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I was as a high performance computing conference today and someone > actually said words very close to "how can something without monetary > value be worth anything". One might ask such a vacuous cad, "How much do you pay for your friends, your family or your lovers? Do they have any value?" But that would probably send the conversation spiralling off-topic. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 15:50:32 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:50:32 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024155032.GA1333@amtoo.utoronto.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 11:32:23AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > together at some location and do a hands on look at > building a dedicated MythTV box. I'd certainly be interested in such a workshop; I've been meaning to get around to installing MythTV for a while now but haven't had the time to spend to do it. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:14:13 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:14:13 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10/24/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Question, > > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > together at some location and do a hands on look at > building a dedicated MythTV box. > > My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an > article on KnoppMyth, which makes the set-up/install > of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In other > words I am looking for some test subjects to see if I > can beak this down to a new user level... Basic idea > would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it into a > MythTV box... Absolutely .. count me in as well. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:18:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:18:02 -0400 Subject: value / money In-Reply-To: <1161704657.23009.250.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> <1161704657.23009.250.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <453E3CBA.3080202@telly.org> Interlug wrote: >> I was as a high performance computing conference today and someone actually said words very close to "how can something without monetary value be worth anything". >> > > One might ask such a vacuous cad, "How much do you pay for your friends, your family or your lovers? Do they have any value?" I thought something along those lines. But maybe the guy spends a lot on porn and therapists. My response would have been to asked him whether he or anyone he knew has ever been sufficiently ill to need a blood transfusion in Canada. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:19:19 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:19:19 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 24/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Question, > > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a > MythTV install workshop? I can tell you with certainty, that linux PVRs (and specifically MythTV) is a hot topic. I know that several regulars have expressed interest/ frustrations/ desire to give such a workshop. > My idea is we could get > together at some location and do a hands on look at > building a dedicated MythTV box. hmmm.. but WHERE ? ;-) > > My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an > article on KnoppMyth, which makes the set-up/install > of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In other > words I am looking for some test subjects to see if I > can beak this down to a new user level... Basic idea > would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it into a > MythTV box... Sound great, and I'd like to videotape it, edit it, and podcast it. when ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:38:23 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:38:23 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024163823.GA24118@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am very interested, but I would not be able to bring a computer on which to work - I'd be a spectator only. Buying you a beverage is definitely in the budget, but computer hardware is not. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:40:16 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:40:16 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453E41F0.3030006@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > together at some location and do a hands on look at > building a dedicated MythTV box. > Sounds like a perfect NewTLUG topic. Can you wait a month? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:45:27 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:45:27 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 24-Oct-06, at 12:19 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > On 24/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Question, >> >> Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a >> MythTV install workshop? > I can tell you with certainty, that linux PVRs (and specifically > MythTV) is a hot topic. > I know that several regulars have expressed interest/ frustrations/ > desire to give such a workshop. >> My idea is we could get >> together at some location and do a hands on look at >> building a dedicated MythTV box. > hmmm.. but WHERE ? > ;-) >> >> My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an >> article on KnoppMyth, which makes the set-up/install >> of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In other >> words I am looking for some test subjects to see if I >> can beak this down to a new user level... Basic idea >> would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it into a >> MythTV box... Just curious but Rogers digital uses ( or used to ) a proprietary format. Is this still true ? > Sound great, and I'd like to videotape it, edit it, and podcast it. > > when ? > > djp > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 16:50:06 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will remove the current MythTV drive, replace it with a new drive. I be there. /teddy Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 24-Oct-06, at 12:19 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > >> On 24/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Question, >>> >>> Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a >>> MythTV install workshop? >> I can tell you with certainty, that linux PVRs (and specifically >> MythTV) is a hot topic. >> I know that several regulars have expressed interest/ frustrations/ >> desire to give such a workshop. >>> My idea is we could get >>> together at some location and do a hands on look at >>> building a dedicated MythTV box. >> hmmm.. but WHERE ? >> ;-) >>> >>> My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an >>> article on KnoppMyth, which makes the set-up/install >>> of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In other >>> words I am looking for some test subjects to see if I >>> can beak this down to a new user level... Basic idea >>> would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it into a >>> MythTV box... > > Just curious but Rogers digital uses ( or used to ) a proprietary format. > > Is this still true ? >> Sound great, and I'd like to videotape it, edit it, and podcast it. >> >> when ? >> >> djp >> >> --djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org >> www.linuxcaffe.ca >> geek chic and caffe cachet >> 326 Harbord Street, >> Toronto, M6G 3A5, >> (416) 534-2116 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 17:03:30 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:03:30 -0400 Subject: value / money In-Reply-To: <453E3CBA.3080202-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> <1161704657.23009.250.camel@localhost.localdomain> <453E3CBA.3080202@telly.org> Message-ID: <1161709410.13975.59.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 12:18 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I thought something along those lines. But maybe the guy spends a lot on > porn and therapists. And one could easily argue that the "love" and "friendship" you obtain through payment have less value. How about black market human blood or organs. Just like proprietary software one turns to payment only when desperate. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 17:30:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:30:17 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024173016.GR30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:45:27PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Just curious but Rogers digital uses ( or used to ) a proprietary > format. > > Is this still true ? No, it is not proprietary. People have managed to use a digital compatible card to receive digital channels on rogers, but there are not very many of the channels that are not encrypted. To decrypt them you need the decryption keys, and of course rogers isn't giving you those. That is essentially what cablecard was supposed to make possible, not that rogers ever had any intension of supporting those. The card can basically receive whatever an unregistered digital cable box can receive on basic cable from rogers, which I believe is the timeshift channels for canada, and a few other things, but not that much. The music stations work too apparently. I believe the format is called QAM or something like that. See http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/rogers.htm -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 17:33:53 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:33:53 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic Message-ID: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> This is probably old news but I heard this on the CBC this morning and I think it confirms Weird Al's position as the connoisseur of parody. http://www.dontdownloadthissong.com/ Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 18:03:15 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061024180315.38075.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 24/10/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Question, > > > > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of > a > > MythTV install workshop? > I can tell you with certainty, that linux PVRs (and > specifically > MythTV) is a hot topic. > I know that several regulars have expressed > interest/ frustrations/ > desire to give such a workshop. > > My idea is we could get > > together at some location and do a hands on look > at > > building a dedicated MythTV box. > hmmm.. but WHERE ? > ;-) That depends. If it looks like we will have say 5 interested people then a small place like say Linuxcaffe could be very good :-) . On the other hand if it looks like we will have say 50 people we would need another venue :-( . > > My not-so-hidden agenda being that I am writing an > > article on KnoppMyth, which makes the > set-up/install > > of a dedicated MythTV box fairly painless. In > other > > words I am looking for some test subjects to see > if I > > can beak this down to a new user level... Basic > idea > > would be, bring in a PC and get help turning it > into a > > MythTV box... > Sound great, and I'd like to videotape it, edit it, > and podcast it. > > when ? Well, lets start by looking at some options. Since we are talking about people hauling PC(s) to a location I would suggest a Saturday or Sunday (hauling a PC on TTC is at the best of times a PAIN made worse during rush hour, and this is what some folks would be doing...). Further by using a weekend morning we can get out of being worried about running 1-2 hours late the way we would on a weekday. Is Nov. 4/5 an option at the cafe, and if so which day is quieter? Next question, how many people would want to be involved in this? You would be looking at coming in with a PC with these sorts of specs (or better): - PIII 750 MHz (better recomended) - 256 MB RAM (more recomended) - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives but MUCH more is recomended) - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or better) video cards) Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 18:40:55 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:40:55 +0000 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024153223.46968.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10/24/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of a > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > together at some location and do a hands on look at > building a dedicated MythTV box. If I had cable, and hence half-decent TV signal, I'd absolutely be in on this. I had one of the early Tivos, and very much liked it. I don't feel like paying cable fees, so 'tis not time... Anyways, that's an aside; when I popped up display of this thread on GMail, their "advertising line" at the top showed off the following URL: MythTV is a lot of work - www.snapstream.com/beyondtv Apparently someone finds it worthwhile advertising their product directly against MythTV :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 18:56:55 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:56:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: <453E4E81.3070302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <453E61F7.5060507@telly.org> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > This is probably old news but I heard this on the CBC this morning and > I think it confirms Weird Al's position as the connoisseur of parody. > > http://www.dontdownloadthissong.com/ Since it's done in a real we-are-the-world chorus style, it lends itself to some interesting video possibilities. Too bad most of the rest of the Weird Al album -- including a particularly dumb bit called "Canadian Idiot" -- is IMO the lamest stuff he's done yet. Only "Don't Download..." and "Too White and Nerdy" are any good. Just don't ask how I got to hear the rest of the album. ;-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 19:04:42 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:04:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: <453E61F7.5060507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <453E61F7.5060507@telly.org> Message-ID: <453E63CA.7010306@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Since it's done in a real we-are-the-world chorus style, it lends itself > to some interesting video possibilities. Too bad most of the rest of the > Weird Al album -- including a particularly dumb bit called "Canadian > Idiot" -- is IMO the lamest stuff he's done yet. Only "Don't > Download..." and "Too White and Nerdy" are any good. > > Just don't ask how I got to hear the rest of the album. ;-) I guess I spoke too soon. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 19:55:19 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/24/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of > a > > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > > together at some location and do a hands on look > at > > building a dedicated MythTV box. > > If I had cable, and hence half-decent TV signal, I'd > absolutely be in > on this. I had one of the early Tivos, and very > much liked it. I > don't feel like paying cable fees, so 'tis not > time... Someone I know (well.. we know) someone who doesn't have cable who is looking to set-up a MythTV box, basically to be a pretty front end for TV shows he has downloaded off the net. Now, due to legalities I can NOT recommend that people do that sort of thing, but for some folks MythTV is interesting even if they don't have cable/satellite TV. > Anyways, that's an aside; when I popped up display > of this thread on > GMail, their "advertising line" at the top showed > off the following > URL: > MythTV is a lot of work - > www.snapstream.com/beyondtv Well, MythTV on some conventioal distros. (such as Debian) can be a ROYAL pain in the tail to set-up. MOST of the big pain issues disappear with KnoppMyth. > Apparently someone finds it worthwhile advertising > their product > directly against MythTV :-). Cool :-) . Colin, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 20:04:22 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:04:22 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024195519.76994.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610241304m1ebef958t3b7d07d1a33425fb@mail.gmail.com> Let me know saturday/sunday may be a good day for me i'd like to drop by and help out. On 10/24/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 10/24/06, Colin McGregor > > wrote: > > > Would there be any interest in doing some sort of > > a > > > MythTV install workshop? My idea is we could get > > > together at some location and do a hands on look > > at > > > building a dedicated MythTV box. > > > > If I had cable, and hence half-decent TV signal, I'd > > absolutely be in > > on this. I had one of the early Tivos, and very > > much liked it. I > > don't feel like paying cable fees, so 'tis not > > time... > > Someone I know (well.. we know) someone who doesn't > have cable who is looking to set-up a MythTV box, > basically to be a pretty front end for TV shows he has > downloaded off the net. Now, due to legalities I can > NOT recommend that people do that sort of thing, but > for some folks MythTV is interesting even if they > don't have cable/satellite TV. > > > Anyways, that's an aside; when I popped up display > > of this thread on > > GMail, their "advertising line" at the top showed > > off the following > > URL: > > MythTV is a lot of work - > > www.snapstream.com/beyondtv > > Well, MythTV on some conventioal distros. (such as > Debian) can be a ROYAL pain in the tail to set-up. > MOST of the big pain issues disappear with KnoppMyth. > > > Apparently someone finds it worthwhile advertising > > their product > > directly against MythTV :-). > > Cool :-) . > > Colin, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 20:06:03 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:06:03 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <20061023184135.GP30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> <20061023184135.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610241306g3bad1a52n9f0b4ad3bb8a6c92@mail.gmail.com> Ya well the blaster works great on Set top boxes of course so you dont need a digital receive card in your system. Just use the blaster and it uses the set top box. You can even set it up using svideo :) Quality is like DVD ;) On 10/23/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:29:47PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > The PVR-150 is basically the same as the 250 from what i've heard. > PVR-150 > > is just a newer model. > > > > If you use the PVR-150 you'll have to go to Marks Brain Dump and get > his > > modified version of LIRC > > > > http://www.blushingpenguin.com/mark/blog/?p=24 > > > > If you would like a comparison you can go here: > > > > http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/compare/compare_pvr.html > > > > The PVR-150 is the only one with the blaster that I know of built in , > > the PVR-150 MCE does not have one. > > > > But I have it working with my TV-OUT and through mythtv it works. I > > love it. Haven't regretted it since buying it. > > I didn't even realize there was a 150 (non MCE). I use a PVR-500MCE > myself. Blaster certainly is a nice feature to include, for those that > need one. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 20:08:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:08:15 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024180315.38075.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024180315.38075.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024200815.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:03:15PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, lets start by looking at some options. Since we > are talking about people hauling PC(s) to a location I > would suggest a Saturday or Sunday (hauling a PC on > TTC is at the best of times a PAIN made worse during > rush hour, and this is what some folks would be > doing...). Further by using a weekend morning we can > get out of being worried about running 1-2 hours late > the way we would on a weekday. Is Nov. 4/5 an option > at the cafe, and if so which day is quieter? > > Next question, how many people would want to be > involved in this? You would be looking at coming in > with a PC with these sorts of specs (or better): > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recomended) > - 256 MB RAM (more recomended) > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > but MUCH more is recomended) > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > better) video cards) Playback is no big deal as long as the video card has decent xvideo support. Encoding mpeg2 is best done in hardware (which any of the PVR-xxx cards do). A card with svideo/composite/component output is nice for connecting to the TV. The PVR-350 of course allows you to have the TV as a totally seperate output device (although I think you can too with nvidia using dual head setup.) and it does mpeg2 decoding in hardware, which I guess matters more if your machine is real slow, or might be busy doing other things. My system consists of: Athlon XP 1700+ (I have a 2400+ I am going to try in it soon) 80mm low speed fan heat sink for cpu A7N8X-E-DX mainboard 2 x 512MB PC3200 RAM (running as whatever the BIOS thinks is fastest/least latency for a 266FSB cpu). 2 x 120GB WD SATA drives running raid1 of the mainboard. I made 19G for / as one raid1, and another raid1 for the rest, which LVM then divides into 1GB swap, 10GB /home, and the rest as /data for storing things like /data/mythtv and whatever else needs lots of space). I hate loosing everything due to disk failure, so raid1 is now mandetory on all machines in my opinion. PVR-500MCE dual tuner capture card SilverStone LC16M-S case with imon-pad remote and 2x16 character VFD, as well as 7 buttons and a clickable wheel on the case. SilverStone 400W quiet power supply for 120mm fan. PX760A DVD-writer. FX5200 with svideo out. Some day when I have money lying around or something, I may add another 4 sata drives in raid5 for extra space for mythtv. A second PVR500MCE might also be an option if I ever find 2 tuners aren't enough to solve scheduling conflicts. The whole thing runs debian unstable with mythtv packages from www.debian-multimedia.org currently using 0.20-whateverfixtheyareonnow. I love the new mytharchive in 0.20. Finally a way to easily make valid DVDs with shows I want to keep. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 20:10:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:10:29 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024195519.76994.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024201029.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 03:55:19PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Someone I know (well.. we know) someone who doesn't > have cable who is looking to set-up a MythTV box, > basically to be a pretty front end for TV shows he has > downloaded off the net. Now, due to legalities I can > NOT recommend that people do that sort of thing, but > for some folks MythTV is interesting even if they > don't have cable/satellite TV. Hmm, not sure how good their front end is as just a video player. I haven't used it much for playing anything other than shows I recorded. > Well, MythTV on some conventioal distros. (such as > Debian) can be a ROYAL pain in the tail to set-up. > MOST of the big pain issues disappear with KnoppMyth. MythTV on debian was a breeze. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 20:55:54 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:55:54 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024173016.GR30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061024173016.GR30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200610241655.55676.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 24 October 2006 13:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:45:27PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > > Just curious but Rogers digital uses ( or used to ) a proprietary > > format. > > > > Is this still true ? > > No, it is not proprietary. People have managed to use a digital > compatible card to receive digital channels on rogers, but there > are not very many of the channels that are not encrypted. To > decrypt them you need the decryption keys, and of course rogers > isn't giving you those. That is essentially what cablecard was > supposed to make possible, not that rogers ever had any intension > of supporting those. The card can basically receive whatever an > unregistered digital cable box can receive on basic cable from > rogers, which I believe is the timeshift channels for canada, and a > few other things, but not that much. The music stations work too > apparently. > > I believe the format is called QAM or something like that. Thank you for the enlightenment. I had no idea that most of the channels used some form of DRM. Is this the case with satellite TV too? I was told recently by a Rogers customer service rep was pushing me towards digital cable that all their customers will be forced to migrate to digital cable in early 2007 when I called in to complain about poor picture quality on my analog cable service. I asked her about options for recording one or two channels while watching another and she said that the way to do it was with one of their recorders. When I told her that I would just build my own, she responded "That would be illegal." At the time, I recall scoffing at the idea. Now that you've mentioned that most of the channels are encrypted and that they presumably won't give the keys to people who pay for the service but want to use some other hardware to connect, what she was saying makes sense. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 21:45:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:45:04 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <200610241655.55676.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024153223.46968.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061024173016.GR30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610241655.55676.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061024214504.GU30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 04:55:54PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Thank you for the enlightenment. I had no idea that most of the > channels used some form of DRM. Is this the case with satellite TV > too? > > I was told recently by a Rogers customer service rep was pushing me > towards digital cable that all their customers will be forced to > migrate to digital cable in early 2007 when I called in to complain > about poor picture quality on my analog cable service. I asked her > about options for recording one or two channels while watching > another and she said that the way to do it was with one of their > recorders. When I told her that I would just build my own, she > responded "That would be illegal." At the time, I recall scoffing at > the idea. Now that you've mentioned that most of the channels are > encrypted and that they presumably won't give the keys to people who > pay for the service but want to use some other hardware to connect, > what she was saying makes sense. I guess making VCRs and such obsolete doesn't matter to rogers at all. Of course being able to charge rental fees for cable boxes for every TV you have would just make rogers amazingly happy. Might as well get rid of the one selling point they have over all their competitors: cable works with existing hardware unlike satelite and digital cable and whatever else exists. Of course the content makers apparently won't be happy until they control when and who we watch things and make sure they can force us to watch all the commercials. Given how many radio and tv stations rogers owns, I think they may have a major conflict of interest. Perhaps cable/satelite providers shouldn't be allowed to own the content makers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 21:47:11 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:47:11 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610241306g3bad1a52n9f0b4ad3bb8a6c92-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> <20061023184135.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610241306g3bad1a52n9f0b4ad3bb8a6c92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061024214711.GV30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 04:06:03PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Ya well the blaster works great on Set top boxes of course so you dont need > a digital receive card in your system. Just use the blaster and it uses the > set top box. > > You can even set it up using svideo :) Quality is like DVD ;) So what I keep wondering is: how do you know the set top box is on? How do you know it is on the right channel? To me an ir blaster seems like a major likely point of failure. Of course I haven't used one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 24 21:52:42 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:52:42 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <20061024214711.GV30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> <20061023184135.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610241306g3bad1a52n9f0b4ad3bb8a6c92@mail.gmail.com> <20061024214711.GV30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610241452i537467bera22ba90150d52ecd@mail.gmail.com> I am not sure how to describe this or what your asking. The blaster has different codes for different set top boxes Mythtv uses the blaster to tell it to change channels (so if you have your scheduler to record on channel 40) mythtv tells the blaster using a change channel script to change to channel 40) it then changes and mythtv records to the specific time Mythtv doesnt know what station the set top box is on but it changes it as soon as you change the channel in mythtv or as soon as your start mythtv or run a schedule record. On 10/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 04:06:03PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Ya well the blaster works great on Set top boxes of course so you dont > need > > a digital receive card in your system. Just use the blaster and it uses > the > > set top box. > > > > You can even set it up using svideo :) Quality is like DVD ;) > > So what I keep wondering is: how do you know the set top box is on? How > do you know it is on the right channel? To me an ir blaster seems like > a major likely point of failure. Of course I haven't used one. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 01:30:41 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:30:41 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> Does it work at all? There are a few at least people around who may know. I am having problems with that. Things are OK, working on IE 6 and latest Opera. But Mozilla and Firefox refuse to handle it properly. As well, I find no problems using GET on all these browsers (actually, I had some, there are tricky differences not well documented between them, but I found a way around). I had no luck to find an explicite example of working JavaScript using method POST on Gecko. I suspect rather the problem is on my side. But who knows? It would be astonishing if POST can not work properly with Mozilla/Firefox. I do not exclude that though - there are some archived posts on the net about bugs there that may have not been corrected. From another hand - when developing by using Ajax interacting with PHP (or some another server side scripting language) it would be good to have a way to send errors (or just output) to log file. There seems to be no easy way to do that, in case of PHP, am I right? Something like when using perl - there is a way to print to STDERR . In case of PHP there seems to be no straitforward way of doing that? Or am I wrong? I guess this is rather a problem for an eventual private correspondence, not for the list. Regards, zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 04:12:00 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:12:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: <453E4E81.3070302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:33:53 -0400 Ivan Avery Frey got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > http://www.dontdownloadthissong.com/ ROFL! Thanks, that made my day :) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Who was that guy?" -Fry "Your momma! Now shut up and drag me to work." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 12:20:14 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:20:14 -0400 Subject: mod_perl in a non-apache webserver ? Message-ID: <453F567E.7050203@alteeve.com> Hi all, Until now I have used Boa as a dedicated webserver for my program. I would like to be able to use 'mod_perl' (or something similar) to keep my scripts compiled (some are fairly complex, sadly). I would like to avoid the largness that is Apache2 because I don't want to make my program any heavier than it needs to be and something as small as Boa does the job just fine. Is it possible to use mod_perl in other webservers? If so, any specific ones/which? Is there another way of keeping perl scripts compiled in memory (or simply compiled) other than mod_perl maybe? Thanks for any tips! Madison (who has precious little experience with mod_perl) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 13:21:32 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:21:32 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610242130.42266.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Zbigniew, On 10/24/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Does it work at all? > > There are a few at least people around who may know. I am having problems with > that. Things are OK, working on IE 6 and latest Opera. But Mozilla and > Firefox refuse to handle it properly. As well, I find no problems using GET > on all these browsers (actually, I had some, there are tricky differences not > well documented between them, but I found a way around). At work, we use the prototype.js library Ruby on Rails uses. It solves all of these cross browser difficulties and is amazingly simple to use. Among other features, you can create an Ajax object and specify the method and dom element to update. Check out http://prototype.conio.net/ Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 13:57:30 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:57:30 -0400 Subject: How much swap? Message-ID: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> There's this old story that swap space should be equal to twice your RAM, and I've heard it for more than a decade of working with Unix. But I've never seen a satisfactory explanation (or any explanation at all) of why this should be so. I have this bizarre idea that the more RAM you have the less swap you need, and that a person with 4Gb of RAM *doesn't* need 8Gb of swap. Obviously this will be dependent on application: a person who expects to be manipulating multi-layer 24"x36" images in the GIMP might consider 12Gb of virtual memory merely adequate, and servers will have other considerations. Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to me? Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:08:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:08:10 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061023155105.GB3787-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:51:05AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I have several Redhat AS3 servers. When I log in via ssh -Y, some > systems create a .Xauthorty file while other don't. All systems have > the XFree86-xauth rpm installed. What triggers the creation of the > .Xauthority file? Did you mean ssh -X? I have never used -Y, although it appears similar. I believe it requires that 'xauth' be available in the path on the remote system or it won't setup any of the X stuff. For example on debian you need xbase-clients installed to have /usr/bin/xauth, which ssh requires to setup X forwarding on the remote end. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:17:47 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:17:47 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061025140810.GW30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025141747.GA24537@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:08:10AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >I believe it requires that 'xauth' be available in the path on the >remote system or it won't setup any of the X stuff. lrwxrwxrwx /usr/bin/xauth -> /usr/X11R6/bin/xauth However the .Xauthority file is not created when I log in using either ssh -X or ssh -Y. This works find on other servers. Why not this one? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:18:59 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:18:59 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061025140810.GW30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025141859.GX30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:08:10AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:51:05AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > > I have several Redhat AS3 servers. When I log in via ssh -Y, some > > systems create a .Xauthorty file while other don't. All systems have > > the XFree86-xauth rpm installed. What triggers the creation of the > > .Xauthority file? > > Did you mean ssh -X? I have never used -Y, although it appears similar. > > I believe it requires that 'xauth' be available in the path on the > remote system or it won't setup any of the X stuff. > > For example on debian you need xbase-clients installed to have > /usr/bin/xauth, which ssh requires to setup X forwarding on the remote > end. Oh and of course the ssh server has to be configured to allow X forwarding in the first place. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:19:36 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:19:36 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1161785976.10248.11.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 09:57 -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to me? Thanks. HP-UX was the place that I heard this and I think it's a Solaris thing too. The kernel would allocate memory and swap at the same time essentially pre-reserving swap in case it needed it. The only reason I could conger up for doing this was so that in the event of a kernel panic the entire memory could be dumped to swap and the problem could be debugged. Linux has crash-dump which can dump memory to another server, assuming the network interface is up. When I allocated swap I usually imagine what system performance would be like if the swap was fully utilized and then make my determination based on that. On a single user system, or single purpose system I usually go lower. On multi-user systems I usually go a little higher. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:20:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:20:32 -0400 Subject: mythtv channel tuning on vdsl bell expressvu for condos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610241452i537467bera22ba90150d52ecd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <453A59E2.4030907@knet.ca> <20061023143308.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610230929s56c4b6bcp530ea12e78e7d040@mail.gmail.com> <20061023184135.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610241306g3bad1a52n9f0b4ad3bb8a6c92@mail.gmail.com> <20061024214711.GV30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880610241452i537467bera22ba90150d52ecd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025142032.GY30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:52:42PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I am not sure how to describe this or what your asking. > > The blaster has different codes for different set top boxes > Mythtv uses the blaster to tell it to change channels (so if you have your > scheduler to record on channel 40) mythtv tells the blaster using a change > channel script to change to channel 40) > it then changes and mythtv records to the specific time > > Mythtv doesnt know what station the set top box is on but it changes it as > soon as you change the channel in mythtv or as soon as your start mythtv or > run a schedule record. I was just wondering how it makes sure the set top box is on. Many have a tendancy to stay off after power failures and such. I know some remotes only have one power button which toggles the power state, which is a lot less useful than an actual turn on or turn off code. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:23:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:23:44 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610242130.42266.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025142344.GZ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:30:41PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Does it work at all? > > There are a few at least people around who may know. I am having problems with > that. Things are OK, working on IE 6 and latest Opera. But Mozilla and > Firefox refuse to handle it properly. As well, I find no problems using GET > on all these browsers (actually, I had some, there are tricky differences not > well documented between them, but I found a way around). > > I had no luck to find an explicite example of working JavaScript using method > POST on Gecko. > > I suspect rather the problem is on my side. But who knows? It would be > astonishing if POST can not work properly with Mozilla/Firefox. I do not > exclude that though - there are some archived posts on the net about bugs > there that may have not been corrected. > > From another hand - when developing by using Ajax interacting with PHP (or > some another server side scripting language) it would be good to have a way > to send errors (or just output) to log file. There seems to be no easy way > to do that, in case of PHP, am I right? Something like when using perl - > there is a way to print to STDERR . In case of PHP there seems to be no > straitforward way of doing that? Or am I wrong? > > I guess this is rather a problem for an eventual private correspondence, not > for the list. Isn't XMLHttpRequest what gmail uses for it's communications? I remember that working on IE and firefox (which I think is gecko based) while not working on opera for a long time (not sure if it does now). Or am I thinking of some other XML thingy? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:27:01 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:27:01 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061025141859.GX30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061025141859.GX30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025142701.GB24537@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:18:59AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Oh and of course the ssh server has to be configured to allow X >forwarding in the first place. Of course. How silly of me to forget to check ;) -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:32:14 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:32:14 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:57:30AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > There's this old story that swap space should be equal to twice your > RAM, and I've heard it for more than a decade of working with Unix. > But I've never seen a satisfactory explanation (or any explanation at > all) of why this should be so. I have this bizarre idea that the more > RAM you have the less swap you need, and that a person with 4Gb of RAM > *doesn't* need 8Gb of swap. > > Obviously this will be dependent on application: a person who expects > to be manipulating multi-layer 24"x36" images in the GIMP might > consider 12Gb of virtual memory merely adequate, and servers will have > other considerations. > > Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to me? Thanks. Well I certainly aim for not usually needing swap. Of course some people now believe in suspending PCs, which uses swap so for that task you need at least as much swap as ram, preferably a bit more. If you have less, it simply can't suspend. Personally I have no idea why I would want to shut down my machine at all. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:33:07 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:33:07 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061025142701.GB24537-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061025141859.GX30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061025142701.GB24537@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20061025143307.GB30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:27:01AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:18:59AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Oh and of course the ssh server has to be configured to allow X > >forwarding in the first place. > > Of course. How silly of me to forget to check ;) So was that it? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:36:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:36:08 -0400 Subject: mod_perl in a non-apache webserver ? In-Reply-To: <453F567E.7050203-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <453F567E.7050203@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061025143608.GC30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 08:20:14AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until now I have used Boa as a dedicated webserver for my program. I > would like to be able to use 'mod_perl' (or something similar) to keep > my scripts compiled (some are fairly complex, sadly). I would like to > avoid the largness that is Apache2 because I don't want to make my > program any heavier than it needs to be and something as small as Boa > does the job just fine. > > Is it possible to use mod_perl in other webservers? If so, any > specific ones/which? Is there another way of keeping perl scripts > compiled in memory (or simply compiled) other than mod_perl maybe? If there isn't a mod_perl equivalant, there is always speedy-cgi-perl which does something very similar and has essentially all the same problems as mod_perl (code not being reinitialized entirely each time it is run, so you have to write much much cleaner code for it to work right.) If you write code that can pass 'use strict' and warnings, and you avoid some of the idiotic clever perl tricks, then you shouldn't have any problems running your code under either speedy or mod_perl. speedy will work with anything that can call external cgi scripts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:36:18 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:36:18 -0400 Subject: Xauthority files on Redhat AS In-Reply-To: <20061025143307.GB30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061023155105.GB3787@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025140810.GW30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061025141859.GX30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061025142701.GB24537@watson-wilson.ca> <20061025143307.GB30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025143618.GC24537@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:33:07AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Of course. How silly of me to forget to check ;) > >So was that it? :) Embarrassingly, yes. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:40:09 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061024195519.76994.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 AM - to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it looks like we will be short on space we can start making alternate plans. When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or better): - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives but MUCH more is strongly recommended) - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or better) video cards) Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" newspaper there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, limit 2). I bought one last weekend, to go with my Hauppage PVR-150, this card gets along very well with KnoppMyth, does hardware mpeg encoding and comes with a remote control. In other words an excellent deal, and well worth grabbing one/two if you can. Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card centre around the remote. There is no LIRC definition file that I have been able to find on-line yet (so, I am part way through creating my own...). Not thrilled with the button size on the remote (the buttons are a bit small for my tastes). Being a factory refurbished unit there are no batteries included with the remote (no big issue, the unit takes 2 standard AA size batteries). As pains go these are NOT serious as you can get a replacement remote for under $10 (or if you want more bells and whistles there are the Logitech Harmony remotes, some of which run into the hundreds of $, but come with goodies like colour LCD screens...). In case anyone is wondering why one might want more than one tuner card inside a PC, let me point out that there are times when two (or more) shows come on at the same time that you want to record... Further, there still seems to be issues with using TV tuner card that use the ivtv driver and ones that use the v4l driver, so when buying 2 (or more) tuner cards stick to one type (i.e. like the Adaptec AVC-2410 and Hauppage PVR-150 which both use the ivtv driver)... Any questions? Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:41:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:41:28 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061025144128.GD30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 01:49:47AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > >I asked Dotto why he never mentioned Linux on his show. He said he'd be > >glad to as soon as Linux paid him to do so. > > >Yeah, that was how he said it. As if "Linux" was a company. > > >The conversation didn't go very well after that. I think he'd taken > >exception to my use of the phrase "media whore". > > Rotfl :) > > I was as a high performance computing conference today and someone > actually said words very close to "how can something without monetary > value be worth anything". This was infact in reference to a CA service > being provided free within accademia but the implications for OSS stood > out to most people in the room. It was an interesting experience to watch > most of the people in the room turn their head and look at him with a > variety of expressions. No one said a word :) Perhaps the reply to "how can something without monetary value be worth anything" should involve something about the worth/value of their opinion, given it too has no monetary value. For that matter, does the right to vote, the right to freedom, etc have no worth? They have no monetary value either. Perhaps some people involved with marketing really have no clue about anything but money. At my wife's previous job doing software for automated trains, they actually had an assigned value of a human life (I don't remember how much) just so that when doing safety value calculations you could actually say that yes it is worth implementing this safety value because it costs less than the statistically likely loss of life during the life of the product. If people had no assigned value to a human life they would leave it out and start claiming every safety feature was too expensive. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 14:53:20 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:53:20 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: <20061025144128.GD30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> <20061025144128.GD30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: http://www.forbes.com/home/enterprisetech/2005/03/15/cz_dl_0315linux.html Linux runs the the majority, 60% of the worlds fastest supercomputers. Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I was as a high performance computing conference today and someone >> actually said words very close to "how can something without monetary >> value be worth anything". This was infact in reference to a CA service >> being provided free within accademia but the implications for OSS stood >> out to most people in the room. It was an interesting experience to watch >> most of the people in the room turn their head and look at him with a >> variety of expressions. No one said a word :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 15:03:52 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:03:52 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <20061025143214.GA30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/25/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well I certainly aim for not usually needing swap. Of course some > people now believe in suspending PCs, which uses swap so for that task > you need at least as much swap as ram, preferably a bit more. If you > have less, it simply can't suspend. > > Personally I have no idea why I would want to shut down my machine at > all. :) No swap here. For installation, I set one up, and then intentionally disable it until I bother to set up an encrypted swap space. If I "need" a swap, I think I have an 8-17 MB partition for such a thing. Memory is cheap. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 15:36:08 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:36:08 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> > No swap here. [snip] > Memory is cheap. I've had similar thoughts, but some research turned up an interesting counterpoint: memory is also fast (and disk is slow...). Chances are, there are a bunch of processes on your system that spend most of their time idling. If you have no swap, these idle processes _must_ reside in real RAM, which eats away at the amount of RAM that can be used for caching and buffering. On the other hand, if you allow the kernel to swap out mostly-idle processes, it has more room for these speed-enhancing uses of physical memory. I think I found that discussion by looking for information regarding /proc/sys/vm/swappiness. Since then, I have always configured my machines with swap. Right now, I have 2GB physical memory and 4GB swap in a file called /var/swap. As for the size of the swap space, I have no justification--I just followed the same "2 x RAM" folklore that started this thread. Just my 2 cents. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 16:20:33 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:20:33 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/25/06, Randy Jonasz wrote: > > Hi Zbigniew, > > On 10/24/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > Does it work at all? > > > > There are a few at least people around who may know. I am having > problems with > > that. Things are OK, working on IE 6 and latest Opera. But Mozilla and > > Firefox refuse to handle it properly. As well, I find no problems using > GET > > on all these browsers (actually, I had some, there are tricky > differences not > > well documented between them, but I found a way around). > > At work, we use the prototype.js library Ruby on Rails uses. It > solves all of these cross browser difficulties and is amazingly simple > to use. Among other features, you can create an Ajax object and > specify the method and dom element to update. > > Check out http://prototype.conio.net/ Thanks. Will have a look later. I did solve however my problem. Simply I missed to send some HTTP headers, and while IE and Opera tolerated that - Mozilla and Firefox did not. The clue was in adding a header line like this: httpRequest.setRequestHeader("Method", "POST "+ url +" HTTP/1.1"); I am however not so much into using other libraries. These things are in principle simple and building my own code helps me to understand it better and hence have a better control over it. Though agree that other libraries are sometime more elegant ) zb. Cheers, > > Randy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 16:26:05 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:26:05 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <20061025142344.GZ30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> <20061025142344.GZ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 10/25/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Isn't XMLHttpRequest what gmail uses for it's communications? They do. It is however not easy to get into their JavaScript code ;) Which is btw an interesting aspect of programming in Ajax. Now it is possible to hide well the data displayed on web sites and for instance disable mass downloads by robots, etc, or stiealing valuable information ;) I > remember that working on IE and firefox (which I think is gecko based) > while not working on opera for a long time (not sure if it does now). > Or am I thinking of some other XML thingy? Opera for a long tme missed proper support for *XMLHttpRequest . I would believe it is working now properly with gmail. In general, Opera is nice browser and they care a lot there to have it close to well established standards. zb. * -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 16:44:32 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:44:32 +0000 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/25/06, Giles Orr wrote: > There's this old story that swap space should be equal to twice your > RAM, and I've heard it for more than a decade of working with Unix. > But I've never seen a satisfactory explanation (or any explanation at > all) of why this should be so. I have this bizarre idea that the more > RAM you have the less swap you need, and that a person with 4Gb of RAM > *doesn't* need 8Gb of swap. > > Obviously this will be dependent on application: a person who expects > to be manipulating multi-layer 24"x36" images in the GIMP might > consider 12Gb of virtual memory merely adequate, and servers will have > other considerations. > > Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to me? Thanks. A long time ago on a BSD 4.2 or 4.3 system far far away (this would be back in the 1990s), the VM system was designed in a way that did indeed require that there be 2x as much swap space as real RAM. This was needful in order that it could be guaranteed that there was space to swap out applications to disk if need be. But that was a VERY long time ago. If memory serves, there were Linux releases in the 2.4 days where there were some VM pathologies where things would break unless you had [a fair amount of swap]; this was a pretty serious VM bug which has since been repaired. There is not now any meaningful rule by which it should be required that swap = 2xRAM. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 16:52:06 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <20061025143214.GA30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025165206.59212.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:57:30AM -0400, Giles Orr > wrote: > > There's this old story that swap space should be > equal to twice your > > RAM, and I've heard it for more than a decade of > working with Unix. > > But I've never seen a satisfactory explanation (or > any explanation at > > all) of why this should be so. I have this > bizarre idea that the more > > RAM you have the less swap you need, and that a > person with 4Gb of RAM > > *doesn't* need 8Gb of swap. > > > > Obviously this will be dependent on application: a > person who expects > > to be manipulating multi-layer 24"x36" images in > the GIMP might > > consider 12Gb of virtual memory merely adequate, > and servers will have > > other considerations. > > > > Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to > me? Thanks. > > Well I certainly aim for not usually needing swap. > Of course some > people now believe in suspending PCs, which uses > swap so for that task > you need at least as much swap as ram, preferably a > bit more. If you > have less, it simply can't suspend. > > Personally I have no idea why I would want to shut > down my machine at > all. :) Simple, at least with my (old) laptop, limited battery life means (controlled) shutdowns have to be part of life :-( . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 16:53:58 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:53:58 +0000 Subject: mod_perl in a non-apache webserver ? In-Reply-To: <453F567E.7050203-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <453F567E.7050203@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 10/25/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until now I have used Boa as a dedicated webserver for my program. I > would like to be able to use 'mod_perl' (or something similar) to keep > my scripts compiled (some are fairly complex, sadly). I would like to > avoid the largness that is Apache2 because I don't want to make my > program any heavier than it needs to be and something as small as Boa > does the job just fine. > > Is it possible to use mod_perl in other webservers? If so, any > specific ones/which? Is there another way of keeping perl scripts > compiled in memory (or simply compiled) other than mod_perl maybe? I think you'll need to diverge from Boa, in that case. The Boa strategy is that it does not fork copies of itself; it only forks for CGI programs which *must* be separate processes. If you want to heavily use CGI, then Boa is the wrong option as its design strategy isn't attuned to that. If you need the capabilities of mod_perl, then you need to use Apache. You can get benefit of both by running both Boa (for static content) and Apache (for dynamic content) by running them on different ports. An alternative to mod_perl is to look into FastCGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastCGI -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 17:37:51 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:37:51 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025144009.7677.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3@mail.gmail.com> Not sure if anyone can answer this, If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can i use the Coaxial tuner at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 inputs? On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 AM - > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it > looks like we will be short on space we can start > making alternate plans. > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or > better): > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > but MUCH more is strongly recommended) > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > better) video cards) > > Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" newspaper > there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec > AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, limit > 2). I bought one last weekend, to go with my Hauppage > PVR-150, this card gets along very well with > KnoppMyth, does hardware mpeg encoding and comes with > a remote control. In other words an excellent deal, > and well worth grabbing one/two if you can. > > Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card centre > around the remote. There is no LIRC definition file > that I have been able to find on-line yet (so, I am > part way through creating my own...). Not thrilled > with the button size on the remote (the buttons are a > bit small for my tastes). Being a factory refurbished > unit there are no batteries included with the remote > (no big issue, the unit takes 2 standard AA size > batteries). As pains go these are NOT serious as you > can get a replacement remote for under $10 (or if you > want more bells and whistles there are the Logitech > Harmony remotes, some of which run into the hundreds > of $, but come with goodies like colour LCD > screens...). > > In case anyone is wondering why one might want more > than one tuner card inside a PC, let me point out that > there are times when two (or more) shows come on at > the same time that you want to record... Further, > there still seems to be issues with using TV tuner > card that use the ivtv driver and ones that use the > v4l driver, so when buying 2 (or more) tuner cards > stick to one type (i.e. like the Adaptec AVC-2410 and > Hauppage PVR-150 which both use the ivtv driver)... > > Any questions? > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 17:48:38 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:48:38 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610222233.24885.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200610242130.42266.softquake@gmail.com> <20061025142344.GZ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025174838.GE30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 12:26:05PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Opera for a long tme missed proper support for *XMLHttpRequest . I would > believe it is working now properly with gmail. In general, Opera is nice > browser and they care a lot there to have it close to well established > standards. As far as I can tell, even with opera 9.02 gmail is still running in standard html mode rather than the javascript method used by ie and firefox and a few others. The javascript interface is much faster and has a lot less overhead of course. Now perhaps the problem is that they recognize opera and don't check the version before deciding which method to use for it. Of course opera is always very big on standards, and tend to avoid non standard features, such as the xmlhttprequest that someone invented but isn't part of the html standards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 18:10:45 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:10:45 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025144009.7677.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 25/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 AM - > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it > looks like we will be short on space we can start > making alternate plans. I went to post the event on our website calendar, and now see that the Ruby programmers will be having their first-Sunday-of-the-month meeting from 1pm-3pm. Now we /have/ had events and user groups happily coincide, but I suspect this MythTV magic will warrant completely overtaking the shop. Do we pick another date/ time ? the calendar is here http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/event and I would be open to going beyond our normal hours http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/hours It's something we've wanted to do since forever, and can accommodate with power, connectivity and projector what'ya think ? also, who can bring their video camera ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 18:23:54 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025182354.86855.qmail@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can i > use the Coaxial tuner at > the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 > inputs? Unless the tuner card specifically promotes itself as being able to deal with 2 signals at once (as happens with the Hauppage PVR-500 card), it is a fairly safe bet the answer is no. > On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 > AM - > > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 > Harbord > > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a > 10 > > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do > a > > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up > at > > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do > want > > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if > it > > looks like we will be short on space we can start > > making alternate plans. > > > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, > you > > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs > (or > > better): > > > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) > > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) > > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB > drives > > but MUCH more is strongly recommended) > > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally > the > > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg > decoding, > > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > > better) video cards) > > > > Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" > newspaper > > there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec > > AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, > limit > > 2). I bought one last weekend, to go with my > Hauppage > > PVR-150, this card gets along very well with > > KnoppMyth, does hardware mpeg encoding and comes > with > > a remote control. In other words an excellent > deal, > > and well worth grabbing one/two if you can. > > > > Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card > centre > > around the remote. There is no LIRC definition > file > > that I have been able to find on-line yet (so, I > am > > part way through creating my own...). Not thrilled > > with the button size on the remote (the buttons > are a > > bit small for my tastes). Being a factory > refurbished > > unit there are no batteries included with the > remote > > (no big issue, the unit takes 2 standard AA size > > batteries). As pains go these are NOT serious as > you > > can get a replacement remote for under $10 (or if > you > > want more bells and whistles there are the > Logitech > > Harmony remotes, some of which run into the > hundreds > > of $, but come with goodies like colour LCD > > screens...). > > > > In case anyone is wondering why one might want > more > > than one tuner card inside a PC, let me point out > that > > there are times when two (or more) shows come on > at > > the same time that you want to record... Further, > > there still seems to be issues with using TV tuner > > card that use the ivtv driver and ones that use > the > > v4l driver, so when buying 2 (or more) tuner cards > > stick to one type (i.e. like the Adaptec AVC-2410 > and > > Hauppage PVR-150 which both use the ivtv > driver)... > > > > Any questions? > > > > Colin. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 18:44:05 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061025184405.45542.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 25/10/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 > AM - > > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 > Harbord > > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a > 10 > > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do > a > > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up > at > > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do > want > > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if > it > > looks like we will be short on space we can start > > making alternate plans. > > I went to post the event on our website calendar, > and now see that the > Ruby programmers will be having their > first-Sunday-of-the-month > meeting from 1pm-3pm. > Now we /have/ had events and user groups happily > coincide, but I > suspect this MythTV magic will warrant completely > overtaking the shop. > Do we pick another date/ time ? Yes, I spoke with David and I gather we should be good with Saturday November 4th at 11:00 PM (in other words move everything up by one day). > the calendar is here > http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/event > and I would be open to going beyond our normal hours > http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/hours > It's something we've wanted to do since forever, > and can accommodate with power, connectivity and > projector > what'ya think ? Things that I see as a must are: - Space for PCs (for the sake of argument 5 machines) - Power to power those 5 machines - 1-2 monitors (some folks (me being one) are crazy enough to carry a PC on TTC, but monitors are another issue) Very Desirable: - Connectivity (so folks can get set-up with Zap2It, the firm that provides free TV schedule data for MythTV users) Nice, but: - Video projector (unless one wants to count that as one of monitors :-) , talk about big screen TV :-) ). - Video Camera > also, > who can bring their video camera ? > > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 18:56:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:56:35 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025185635.GF30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 01:37:51PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can i use the Coaxial tuner at > the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 inputs? No, it only has one encoder chip, which has multiple inputs. Only one input can be active at once. To record two things at once you need two encoder chips, which the PVR500 has for example, or two seperate cards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:04:03 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:04:03 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't believe so. The PVR-150 only has a single tuner, which is the important component. The two inputs are still just inputs to the single tuner. What you want is a PVR-500, which has two tuners on one card. On 10/25/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can i use the Coaxial tuner > at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 inputs? > > > On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 AM - > > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord > > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 > > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a > > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at > > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want > > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it > > looks like we will be short on space we can start > > making alternate plans. > > > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you > > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or > > better): > > > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) > > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) > > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > > but MUCH more is strongly recommended) > > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > > better) video cards) > > > > Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" newspaper > > there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec > > AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, limit > > 2). I bought one last weekend, to go with my Hauppage > > PVR-150, this card gets along very well with > > KnoppMyth, does hardware mpeg encoding and comes with > > a remote control. In other words an excellent deal, > > and well worth grabbing one/two if you can. > > > > Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card centre > > around the remote. There is no LIRC definition file > > that I have been able to find on-line yet (so, I am > > part way through creating my own...). Not thrilled > > with the button size on the remote (the buttons are a > > bit small for my tastes). Being a factory refurbished > > unit there are no batteries included with the remote > > (no big issue, the unit takes 2 standard AA size > > batteries). As pains go these are NOT serious as you > > can get a replacement remote for under $10 (or if you > > want more bells and whistles there are the Logitech > > Harmony remotes, some of which run into the hundreds > > of $, but come with goodies like colour LCD > > screens...). > > > > In case anyone is wondering why one might want more > > than one tuner card inside a PC, let me point out that > > there are times when two (or more) shows come on at > > the same time that you want to record... Further, > > there still seems to be issues with using TV tuner > > card that use the ivtv driver and ones that use the > > v4l driver, so when buying 2 (or more) tuner cards > > stick to one type ( i.e. like the Adaptec AVC-2410 and > > Hauppage PVR-150 which both use the ivtv driver)... > > > > Any questions? > > > > Colin. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:09:57 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Ian Petersen wrote: > Chances are, there are a bunch of processes on your system that spend > most of their time idling. If you have no swap, these idle processes > _must_ reside in real RAM, which eats away at the amount of RAM that > can be used for caching and buffering. On the other hand, if you > allow the kernel to swap out mostly-idle processes, it has more room > for these speed-enhancing uses of physical memory. Hi Ian. You took the words right out of my mouth. Ram being cheap is not sufficient reason not to put swap in the system for exactly the reason that you mention. Allowing unused apps to swap and thus allowing the system to reclaim the memory and use it for cache and buffering is an overall win for performance, even after factoring in the need to swap apps back in from time to time. As for the original poster's query - the old "swap must equal 2x ram" formula was derived from the swapping algorithms used on some versions of Unix in the past. This is not and has never been necessary on Linux[1]. Basically the amount of ram+swap should be higher than you would reasonably expect the system to demand. On systems with lots of ram (say 4GB) I'll throw in a few GB of swap (disk is cheap too). Watch out for runaway processes that gobble lots of memory - having swap can prevent the OOM killer[2] coming in to play and the OOM killer is nobody's friend. On a side note I highly recommend setting per process limits. See limits.conf and ulimit. [1] Actually there was one kernel which had a bug which meant that if swap was not at least 2x ram the system would not swap at all. This was quickly fixed and was entirely unintentional. [2] Out Of Memory killer. ROARRR!!!! Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:10:25 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:10:25 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061024195519.76994.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880610251037h9985bcfwfac314960a8e84c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: As for the topic at hand, presuming I don't have other matters to attend to that weekend, I'd be happy to show up. I have a MythTV install currently running Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV 0.20. I don't have much experience with KnoppMyth, but I might still be able to give some pointers and tips to new users. Also, is there any reason to have a couple of already running MythTV boxes to show off? If we had a TV (and cable tv access), it might be nice to have a box already running to play around with and demo while the various machines are installing. On 10/25/06, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > I don't believe so. The PVR-150 only has a single tuner, which is the > important component. The two inputs are still just inputs to the single > tuner. What you want is a PVR-500, which has two tuners on one card. > > On 10/25/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > > > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can i use the Coaxial tuner > > at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 inputs? > > > > > > On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > > > I spoke to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe this > > > morning, and we are going to go with a KnoppMyth > > > install event starting Sunday November 5th, 11:00 AM - > > > to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord > > > Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 > > > minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a > > > hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is > > > hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at > > > this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want > > > to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it > > > looks like we will be short on space we can start > > > making alternate plans. > > > > > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you > > > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or > > > better): > > > > > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) > > > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) > > > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > > > but MUCH more is strongly recommended) > > > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > > > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > > > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > > > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > > > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > > > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > > > better) video cards) > > > > > > Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" newspaper > > > there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec > > > AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, limit > > > 2). I bought one last weekend, to go with my Hauppage > > > PVR-150, this card gets along very well with > > > KnoppMyth, does hardware mpeg encoding and comes with > > > a remote control. In other words an excellent deal, > > > and well worth grabbing one/two if you can. > > > > > > Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card centre > > > around the remote. There is no LIRC definition file > > > that I have been able to find on-line yet (so, I am > > > part way through creating my own...). Not thrilled > > > with the button size on the remote (the buttons are a > > > bit small for my tastes). Being a factory refurbished > > > unit there are no batteries included with the remote > > > (no big issue, the unit takes 2 standard AA size > > > batteries). As pains go these are NOT serious as you > > > can get a replacement remote for under $10 (or if you > > > want more bells and whistles there are the Logitech > > > Harmony remotes, some of which run into the hundreds > > > of $, but come with goodies like colour LCD > > > screens...). > > > > > > In case anyone is wondering why one might want more > > > than one tuner card inside a PC, let me point out that > > > there are times when two (or more) shows come on at > > > the same time that you want to record... Further, > > > there still seems to be issues with using TV tuner > > > card that use the ivtv driver and ones that use the > > > v4l driver, so when buying 2 (or more) tuner cards > > > stick to one type ( i.e. like the Adaptec AVC-2410 and > > > Hauppage PVR-150 which both use the ivtv driver)... > > > > > > Any questions? > > > > > > Colin. > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:38:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:38:44 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061025193844.GG30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 03:09:57PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi Ian. You took the words right out of my mouth. Ram being cheap is not > sufficient reason not to put swap in the system for exactly the reason > that you mention. > > Allowing unused apps to swap and thus allowing the system to reclaim the > memory and use it for cache and buffering is an overall win for > performance, even after factoring in the need to swap apps back in from > time to time. > > As for the original poster's query - the old "swap must equal 2x ram" > formula was derived from the swapping algorithms used on some versions of > Unix in the past. This is not and has never been necessary on Linux[1]. I believe 2.4.0-2.4.10 may in fact have had such a requirement. Or at least swap > ram had to be the case if you had any swap, since I think its VM did in fact back all ram with swap at all times. I may have misunderstood it at the time though. I do remember the VM in those versions really didn't work very well and a complete replacement was put in for later 2.4 kernels which was a major improvement. > Basically the amount of ram+swap should be higher than you would > reasonably expect the system to demand. On systems with lots of ram (say > 4GB) I'll throw in a few GB of swap (disk is cheap too). Watch out for > runaway processes that gobble lots of memory - having swap can prevent the > OOM killer[2] coming in to play and the OOM killer is nobody's friend. > > On a side note I highly recommend setting per process limits. See > limits.conf and ulimit. > > [1] Actually there was one kernel which had a bug which meant that if swap > was not at least 2x ram the system would not swap at all. This was > quickly fixed and was entirely unintentional. > > [2] Out Of Memory killer. ROARRR!!!! Yes, randomly killing a process does not seem like the best move. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:49:44 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: <20061025144128.GD30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> <20061025144128.GD30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Perhaps the reply to "how can something without monetary value be worth > anything" should involve something about the worth/value of their > opinion, given it too has no monetary value. For that matter, does the > right to vote, the right to freedom, etc have no worth? They have no > monetary value either. Perhaps some people involved with marketing really > have no clue about anything but money. You're spot on. I would also have loved to point out that most human societies were based on economies fundamentally different from ours, in which "money" was not a meaningful concept. As I understand it, anthropologists suspect that many (most?) ancient societies were gift economies. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 19:58:49 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <20061025193844.GG30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <20061025193844.GG30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I believe 2.4.0-2.4.10 may in fact have had such a requirement. Or at That was probably it. I seem to recall there was one patch that was uber-broken :) I wrote: >> [2] Out Of Memory killer. ROARRR!!!! > > Yes, randomly killing a process does not seem like the best move. Yes and neither of the main alternatives (killing the process that was denied the memory and killing the largest process) are much better. Designing a good OOM killer is far harder than it first appears. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 20:23:36 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > As for the topic at hand, presuming I don't have > other matters to attend to > that weekend, I'd be happy to show up. I have a > MythTV install currently > running Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV 0.20. I don't have > much experience with > KnoppMyth, but I might still be able to give some > pointers and tips to new > users. Sounds great. One of the problems tied to all distros. (namely I am NOT pointing fingers) is how programs in the distro. lag behind the current releases. The current KnoppMyth release is R5D1 which comes with MythTV 0.19 (one release back from the latest version of MythTV). > Also, is there any reason to have a couple of > already running MythTV boxes > to show off? If we had a TV (and cable tv access), > it might be nice to have > a box already running to play around with and demo > while the various > machines are installing. I gather there is NO cable TV in Linuxcaffe (yes I did ask). The classic we are MOST unlikely to find the perfect space. So with Linuxcaffe on the good we have an owner happy to see us, fairly central location, power, Internet and free. On the bad, the amount of space in Linuxcaffe is limited, and no cable TV. While not out of the question, on balance it is unlikely we will find a better location than Linuxcaffe. Now I am tentatively planning to bring my KnoppMyth based MythTV box to show off (though granted as a MythTV box it isn't anything special to write home about). > On 10/25/06, Michael MacLeod > wrote: > > > > I don't believe so. The PVR-150 only has a single > tuner, which is the > > important component. The two inputs are still just > inputs to the single > > tuner. What you want is a PVR-500, which has two > tuners on one card. > > > > On 10/25/06, Dave Germiquet > wrote: > > > > > > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > > > > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can > i use the Coaxial tuner > > > at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 > inputs? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 20:44:58 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:44:58 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025202336.23825.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061025204458.GH30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 04:23:36PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Sounds great. One of the problems tied to all distros. > (namely I am NOT pointing fingers) is how programs in > the distro. lag behind the current releases. The > current KnoppMyth release is R5D1 which comes with > MythTV 0.19 (one release back from the latest version > of MythTV). Well there is a reason I run debian unstable along with debian-multimedia packages. They are updated very quickly. 0.20 is a majorly nice upgrade from 0.19, and I just don't think I could do without myth-archive now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 20:55:06 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:55:06 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025202336.23825.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh wow, KnoppMyth is still only 0.19? I'd almost say not to bother with KnoppMyth then. 0.20 is much better. Some teething pains perhaps, but well worth it. Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV is relatively painless. The actual Ubuntu MythTV packages are stuck way back at 0.18, but there are third-party repo's for Dapper that feature 0.20 and work well. They're actually maintained by the guy who's got 0.20 into the next release of Edgy. There is only one outstanding bug that I've encountered that affects some (not all) nvidia users. It's documented here: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/2448 There are some very handy guides for Ubuntu + MythTV installs on the web, and I've done the whole thing start to finish in 3 hours, including updating all the Ubuntu packages (167 updated packages last time I re-installed). On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > > As for the topic at hand, presuming I don't have > > other matters to attend to > > that weekend, I'd be happy to show up. I have a > > MythTV install currently > > running Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV 0.20. I don't have > > much experience with > > KnoppMyth, but I might still be able to give some > > pointers and tips to new > > users. > > Sounds great. One of the problems tied to all distros. > (namely I am NOT pointing fingers) is how programs in > the distro. lag behind the current releases. The > current KnoppMyth release is R5D1 which comes with > MythTV 0.19 (one release back from the latest version > of MythTV). > > > Also, is there any reason to have a couple of > > already running MythTV boxes > > to show off? If we had a TV (and cable tv access), > > it might be nice to have > > a box already running to play around with and demo > > while the various > > machines are installing. > > I gather there is NO cable TV in Linuxcaffe (yes I did > ask). The classic we are MOST unlikely to find the > perfect space. So with Linuxcaffe on the good we have > an owner happy to see us, fairly central location, > power, Internet and free. On the bad, the amount of > space in Linuxcaffe is limited, and no cable TV. While > not out of the question, on balance it is unlikely we > will find a better location than Linuxcaffe. > > Now I am tentatively planning to bring my KnoppMyth > based MythTV box to show off (though granted as a > MythTV box it isn't anything special to write home > about). > > > On 10/25/06, Michael MacLeod > > wrote: > > > > > > I don't believe so. The PVR-150 only has a single > > tuner, which is the > > > important component. The two inputs are still just > > inputs to the single > > > tuner. What you want is a PVR-500, which has two > > tuners on one card. > > > > > > On 10/25/06, Dave Germiquet > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > > > > > > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can > > i use the Coaxial tuner > > > > at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 > > inputs? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 22:14:39 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:14:39 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <20061025174838.GE30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061025174838.GE30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 25 October 2006 13:48, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 12:26:05PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Opera for a long tme missed proper support for *XMLHttpRequest . I would > > believe it is working now properly with gmail. In general, Opera is nice > > browser and they care a lot there to have it close to well established > > standards. > > As far as I can tell, even with opera 9.02 gmail is still running in > standard html mode rather than the javascript method used by ie and > firefox and a few others. The javascript interface is much faster and > has a lot less overhead of course. Now perhaps the problem is that they > recognize opera and don't check the version before deciding which method > to use for it. Or perhaps they do not care so much about Opera, which is potentially a competitor to Firefox? > Of course opera is always very big on standards, and > tend to avoid non standard features, such as the xmlhttprequest that > someone invented but isn't part of the html standards. I have no much problem with the fact that something innovative that is not standardized yet is used. HTML around 15 years ago has not been standardized ;) XMLHttpRequest is responsible for a breakthrough in web technologies that occurs just right now. It will cause an explosion of web applications available around. It is been standardized already, W3C works on that. It is still technology which is not well known even by web developers. I started my work on developing a complex web application about 6 months ago and my first idea was to use frames, with a hidden frame communicating with the server by HTTP while with other frames by JavaScript. JavaScript would also push the hidden frame to receive data from the server. Not a very elegant but quite effective solution. After a month or so I realized that Ajax is available around ... Digression: would Ajax spread out so fast if there were software patents? And that idea, though it is not super-duper original, might had been patented... And an idea: I would believe that the future, possibly not so distant, will bring even a something more clever and powerful: communicating by JavaScript with remote databases directely, without the need to connect to HTTP server between. Not easy to do? Security concerns? Not so much really. The only condition is that an application is really well thought and access to Stored Procedures only is available there. In that way one does not need to worry so much about hiding passwords. Actually, session ID could take the role of access password to database. zb. > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 25 23:50:21 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:50:21 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610251814.39883.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <20061025174838.GE30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> On 25/10/2006 Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > And an idea: I would believe that the future, possibly not so > distant, will > bring even a something more clever and powerful: communicating by > JavaScript > with remote databases directely, without the need to connect to HTTP > server > between. Not easy to do? Security concerns? Not so much really. The > only > condition is that an application is really well thought No kidding - That's what Flex is all about, it's here now. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 00:10:01 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:10:01 -0400 Subject: open source on dotto tech and g4-tech In-Reply-To: References: <453D6FAA.2070805@telly.org> <20061025144128.GD30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061025201001.79258755@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Robert Brockway got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > As I understand it, anthropologists suspect that many (most?) ancient > societies were gift economies. Correct sir! A 'standard currency', contrary to what we are taught, was not implemented to be a 'convenient means of exchange', but a 'convenient means of control' by bureaucracies, and we got the idea from one of the oldest and most complex bureaucracies in history: China (well, it wasn't called China at the time...). 'Money', at least as we know it, serves a very important purpose for said Bureaucracies: it makes it a lot easier to collect...wait for it... Taxes! Okay, oversimplification, but I ain't gonna write an essay. For your evenings entertainment, might I suggest checking out what Wikipedia has to say about 'alternative currencies', or Google 'flaxscript' ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: "If you could change form, why didn't you change it in the one place that counts?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 00:53:22 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:53:22 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I just got an email from the guy who maintains the MythTV packages for Ubuntu Edgy. Apparently Edgy is going to be released over the weekend, and with the packages (0.20-fixes) included in universe, this might be the distro of choice for MythTV builds for the next little while. On 10/25/06, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > Oh wow, KnoppMyth is still only 0.19? I'd almost say not to bother with > KnoppMyth then. 0.20 is much better. Some teething pains perhaps, but well > worth it. Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV is relatively painless. The actual Ubuntu > MythTV packages are stuck way back at 0.18, but there are third-party > repo's for Dapper that feature 0.20 and work well. They're actually > maintained by the guy who's got 0.20 into the next release of Edgy. > > There is only one outstanding bug that I've encountered that affects some > (not all) nvidia users. It's documented here: > http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/2448 > > There are some very handy guides for Ubuntu + MythTV installs on the web, > and I've done the whole thing start to finish in 3 hours, including updating > all the Ubuntu packages (167 updated packages last time I re-installed). > > On 10/25/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > > > As for the topic at hand, presuming I don't have > > > other matters to attend to > > > that weekend, I'd be happy to show up. I have a > > > MythTV install currently > > > running Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV 0.20. I don't have > > > much experience with > > > KnoppMyth, but I might still be able to give some > > > pointers and tips to new > > > users. > > > > Sounds great. One of the problems tied to all distros. > > (namely I am NOT pointing fingers) is how programs in > > the distro. lag behind the current releases. The > > current KnoppMyth release is R5D1 which comes with > > MythTV 0.19 (one release back from the latest version > > of MythTV). > > > > > Also, is there any reason to have a couple of > > > already running MythTV boxes > > > to show off? If we had a TV (and cable tv access), > > > it might be nice to have > > > a box already running to play around with and demo > > > while the various > > > machines are installing. > > > > I gather there is NO cable TV in Linuxcaffe (yes I did > > ask). The classic we are MOST unlikely to find the > > perfect space. So with Linuxcaffe on the good we have > > an owner happy to see us, fairly central location, > > power, Internet and free. On the bad, the amount of > > space in Linuxcaffe is limited, and no cable TV. While > > not out of the question, on balance it is unlikely we > > will find a better location than Linuxcaffe. > > > > Now I am tentatively planning to bring my KnoppMyth > > based MythTV box to show off (though granted as a > > MythTV box it isn't anything special to write home > > about). > > > > > On 10/25/06, Michael MacLeod > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't believe so. The PVR-150 only has a single > > > tuner, which is the > > > > important component. The two inputs are still just > > > inputs to the single > > > > tuner. What you want is a PVR-500, which has two > > > tuners on one card. > > > > > > > > On 10/25/06, Dave Germiquet > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if anyone can answer this, > > > > > > > > > > If im using the Svidfeo tuner on the PVR-150 can > > > i use the Coaxial tuner > > > > > at the same time and record 2 shows cuz of the 2 > > > inputs? > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 01:34:37 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:34:37 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <453FF83D.3040907-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 25 October 2006 19:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > On 25/10/2006 Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > And an idea: I would believe that the future, possibly not so > > distant, will > > bring even a something more clever and powerful: communicating by > > JavaScript > > with remote databases directely, without the need to connect to HTTP > > server > > between. Not easy to do? Security concerns? Not so much really. The > > only > > condition is that an application is really well thought > > No kidding - That's what Flex is all about, it's here now. :) > I am quite impressed. But not entirely. Ajax is free, Flex is not. And Flex produces Flash files, not web pages. The direction in which Adobe (Macromedia) goes does not surprise - even earlier versions of Flash (around 3, certainly 4) had a way to communicate with HTTP server, retrieve data, and display accordingly. Still, it seems, Flex communicates through HTTP server? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 01:43:29 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:43:29 -0700 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610252134.38255.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <454012C1.9060003@mathstat.yorku.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I am quite impressed. But not entirely. Ajax is free, Flex is not. And Flex > produces Flash files, not web pages. I thought Flex just broke up character streams into tokens, following a regular expression scheme. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 02:12:50 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:12:50 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <454012C1.9060003-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> <454012C1.9060003@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <200610252212.50924.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 25 October 2006 21:43, Mike Oliver wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I am quite impressed. But not entirely. Ajax is free, Flex is not. And > > Flex produces Flash files, not web pages. > > I thought Flex just broke up character streams into tokens, following > a regular expression scheme. There are at least two of them ;) Entirely different ones: http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/ http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/ zb. P.s.: Is "flex" a common name in English? Probably not? In that case the second one on this list could claim trademark rights to the name ... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 02:47:20 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025202336.23825.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | I gather there is NO cable TV in Linuxcaffe (yes I did | ask). Anyone have rabbit ears? You can probably see the CN Tower from the Linuxcaffe. One set, handed around, ought to be enough. Don't forget the thingee to change the impedence (75 Ohm vs 300 Ohm?). (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my valley -- then I'd try for HDTV over the air.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 02:40:02 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025144009.7677.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | Of further note, in last week's "24 Hours" newspaper | there was Factory Direct coupon for the Adaptec | AVC-2410 PCI TV tuner card ($29.99 with coupon, limit | 2). Their email ad included a coupon for this, limit 1 per customer. http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/combo_spec.php?pcode=FC7040&id=104 If you are going to go anyway, you might as well have the rest of the coupons: http://www.factorydirect.ca/email_html/061020_FS.htm They may be out of these tuners. Their North York store was out on Monday even though the online inventory showed 4. They said one should always phone ahead (the guy ahead of me had phoned in but got no answer). I found that the card can actually use the same firmware as the Hauppauge PVR 150 and 250. You can see my notes sprinkled in http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Adaptec_AVC-2410 In particular, all I needed was to add this to /etc/modprobe.conf: option tuner ignore=-1,0x6b | Only issues I have seen with the Adaptec card centre | around the remote. I have not tried LIRC with it. ================ Canada Computers has been a reasonable place to get Hauppauge cards. http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProdList&cmd=pl&id=CC.344 For example, they were one of the few places I've seen the PVR-500. Too bad that they appear to have no PVR-500 in stock. Filtech seems to list these cards now. The site does not seem to know about stock http://www.filtechcomputer.com/index.php#TV%20Tuner Beware: some Hauppauge cards come with remote controls and some don't. My myth to explain this is that WinXP MCE mandates a system-wide remote control standard and so it may mean that it sometimes makes sense to leave it out of the individual card bundle. Windows XP MCE only supports a limited variety of cards (perhaps MS demands a cut). As far as I know, this does not include the Adaptec card, and this is probably why it is being blown out so cheaply. (Even I "own" a copy of WinXP MCE -- it is bundled with a lot of PCs.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 04:42:09 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:42:09 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> i have lately set up some systems with 10-12-16 GB of ram and even embarking on larger. SUSE 10 seems to put the swap at 2GB (i guess as a max) once you are up to these type of RAM numbers (this is in its standard install configuration recommendation). So I am thinking that there is generally never a need to go more the 2GB of HD swap? (at least in Novell's opinion) Now with ram being so darn cheap, how about a 16 GB system, but put 2GB of that into a RAM based FS and mount that as your SWAP :) kinda defeats the purpose, but at least Linux will have its swap space :) -tl On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 15:09 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Ian Petersen wrote: > > > Chances are, there are a bunch of processes on your system that spend > > most of their time idling. If you have no swap, these idle processes > > _must_ reside in real RAM, which eats away at the amount of RAM that > > can be used for caching and buffering. On the other hand, if you > > allow the kernel to swap out mostly-idle processes, it has more room > > for these speed-enhancing uses of physical memory. > > Hi Ian. You took the words right out of my mouth. Ram being cheap is not > sufficient reason not to put swap in the system for exactly the reason > that you mention. > > Allowing unused apps to swap and thus allowing the system to reclaim the > memory and use it for cache and buffering is an overall win for > performance, even after factoring in the need to swap apps back in from > time to time. > > As for the original poster's query - the old "swap must equal 2x ram" > formula was derived from the swapping algorithms used on some versions of > Unix in the past. This is not and has never been necessary on Linux[1]. > > Basically the amount of ram+swap should be higher than you would > reasonably expect the system to demand. On systems with lots of ram (say > 4GB) I'll throw in a few GB of swap (disk is cheap too). Watch out for > runaway processes that gobble lots of memory - having swap can prevent the > OOM killer[2] coming in to play and the OOM killer is nobody's friend. > > On a side note I highly recommend setting per process limits. See > limits.conf and ulimit. > > [1] Actually there was one kernel which had a bug which meant that if swap > was not at least 2x ram the system would not swap at all. This was > quickly fixed and was entirely unintentional. > > [2] Out Of Memory killer. ROARRR!!!! > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 06:25:02 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint Message-ID: I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter through my ADSL connection. The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that they've throttled it way down to make it reliable. Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% smaller). Both times seem pretty bad. I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit waiting to happen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 06:52:06 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:52:06 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:25:02 -0400 (EDT) D. Hugh Redelmeier got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a > faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it > is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit waiting > to happen. I strongly suspect that some ISP's throttle bittorrent traffic. I experienced an inexplicable drop in bittorrent d/l speeds, I could not download anything faster than 5 or 6 KB/s. I found out on the Azureus forums that a lot of people were experiencing this. When I followed the instructions, and enabled strong encryption, all of a sudden speed shop right back up. Well 'shot' isn't a good word for the speeds I get w/ Symcraptico, but anyway ;) It adds just little bit more CPU usage to an already somewhat resource-hungry Java app, but hey, I can still play Urban Terror while it's running in the systray, so it's okay with me :) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Bachelor Chow. Now with flavor." -announcer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 05:39:12 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:39:12 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610252134.38255.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45404A00.4010203@yahoo.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Wednesday 25 October 2006 19:50, Stephen Allen wrote: >> No kidding - That's what Flex is all about, it's here now. :) >> > > I am quite impressed. But not entirely. Ajax is free, Flex is not. And Flex > produces Flash files, not web pages. The direction in which Adobe > (Macromedia) goes does not surprise - even earlier versions of Flash (around > 3, certainly 4) had a way to communicate with HTTP server, retrieve data, and > display accordingly. Still, it seems, Flex communicates through HTTP server? Yes it does. There are some good developer blogs around if you're interested. You were talking about accessing a remote database without a browser -- That's a RIA and Flex is going places were AJAX can't. Unfortunately it's not free, but not everything in this world can be free and/or opensource. Sometimes one has to compromise. Besides there is nothing in the OSS area that can compete. Adobe is gaining an increasing awareness of OSS as per the development of the Flash player for Linux. About time is all I can say; Adobe wants Flex to run on all platforms with the same user experience. Ambitous, but I believe they'll pull it off. I"m excited about Flex and Apollo, and I'm seeing a lot of interest in RIAs now, and it's only going to increase going forward. If one is a web developer, this is a genre that one shouldn't ignore IMO. AJAX, blah. What's old is new again. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 12:16:05 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:16:05 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <45404A00.4010203-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> <45404A00.4010203@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <3190A42F-6289-498E-952E-E3A6227100C9@visibleassets.com> On 26-Oct-06, at 1:39 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> On Wednesday 25 October 2006 19:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > > > >>> No kidding - That's what Flex is all about, it's here now. :) >>> >> I am quite impressed. But not entirely. Ajax is free, Flex is not. >> And Flex produces Flash files, not web pages. The direction in >> which Adobe (Macromedia) goes does not surprise - even earlier >> versions of Flash (around 3, certainly 4) had a way to communicate >> with HTTP server, retrieve data, and display accordingly. Still, >> it seems, Flex communicates through HTTP server? > > Yes it does. There are some good developer blogs around if you're > interested. > > You were talking about accessing a remote database without a > browser -- That's a RIA and Flex is going places were AJAX can't. Where is this going that AJAX can't ? > > Unfortunately it's not free, but not everything in this world can > be free and/or opensource. Sometimes one has to compromise. Besides > there is nothing in the OSS area that can compete. > > Adobe is gaining an increasing awareness of OSS as per the > development of the Flash player for Linux. About time is all I can > say; Adobe wants Flex to run on all platforms with the same user > experience. Ambitous, but I believe they'll pull it off. > > I"m excited about Flex and Apollo, and I'm seeing a lot of interest > in RIAs now, and it's only going to increase going forward. If one > is a web developer, this is a genre that one shouldn't ignore IMO. > > AJAX, blah. What's old is new again. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 12:44:54 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:44:54 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061025184405.45542.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061025184405.45542.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 25/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Yes, I spoke with David and I gather we should be good > with Saturday November 4th at 11:00 PM > > Things that I see as a must are: > > - Space for PCs (for the sake of argument 5 machines) gotit > - Power to power those 5 machines gotit > - 1-2 monitors (some folks (me being one) are crazy gotem > Very Desirable: > > - Connectivity (so folks can get set-up with Zap2It, > the firm that provides free TV schedule data for > MythTV users) yes > > - Video projector (unless one wants to count that as > one of monitors :-) , talk about big screen TV :-) ). 2000 ANSI lumens, at you service > - Video Camera available from neighbour, Stu djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:03:01 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:03:01 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The > former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter through > my ADSL connection. > > The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that they've > throttled it way down to make it reliable. > > Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I > remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% smaller). > Both times seem pretty bad. > > I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a > faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it > is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit waiting > to happen. They could argue that you can't setup your computer like a server. When you're filesharing technically your computer is also a server. Have you tried switching the ports your client uses? Or does Rogers scan all ports for bittorrent traffic. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:15:29 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:15:29 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <4540B205.4000102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The >> former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter >> through my ADSL connection. >> >> The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that >> they've throttled it way down to make it reliable. >> >> Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I >> remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% >> smaller). Both times seem pretty bad. >> >> I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised >> a faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it >> matters, it is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a >> lawsuit waiting to happen. > > They could argue that you can't setup your computer like a server. When > you're filesharing technically your computer is also a server. > > Have you tried switching the ports your client uses? Or does Rogers scan > all ports for bittorrent traffic. They do watch ports IIRC, but their real strategy is at the packet level where their systems check packet headers and block anything bittorrent. That's why encryption works with their system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:42:15 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:42:15 -0400 Subject: SELF Project Message-ID: <200610260942.16016.marc@lijour.net> Short presentation explaining what is this project, what are its stakeholders and their roadmap. ftp://ftp.cordis.europa.eu/pub/ist/docs/directorate_d/st-ds/sept-25-2006-self_en.pdf Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:49:26 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:49:26 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061026134926.GI30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 04:55:06PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > Oh wow, KnoppMyth is still only 0.19? I'd almost say not to bother with > KnoppMyth then. 0.20 is much better. Some teething pains perhaps, but well > worth it. Ubuntu Dapper + MythTV is relatively painless. The actual Ubuntu > MythTV packages are stuck way back at 0.18, but there are third-party repo's > for Dapper that feature 0.20 and work well. They're actually maintained by > the guy who's got 0.20 into the next release of Edgy. > > There is only one outstanding bug that I've encountered that affects some > (not all) nvidia users. It's documented here: > http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/2448 That bug can be avoided if you build without the opengl vsync option. The debian packages were rebuilt without that option and then my machine stopped crashing when I go to the live tv program guide. It was quite annoying that is for sure. I suspect it is a bug in nvidia's drivers that doesn't like xvideo and opengl with vsync enabled at the same time or something like that. I wonder if anyone has asked nvidia about it. Seems easy enough to reproduce. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:54:01 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:54:01 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061025144009.7677.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061026135401.GJ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:40:02PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Canada Computers has been a reasonable place to get Hauppauge cards. > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProdList&cmd=pl&id=CC.344 > For example, they were one of the few places I've seen the PVR-500. > Too bad that they appear to have no PVR-500 in stock. I got my PVR500 there some months ago. > Filtech seems to list these cards now. The site does not seem to know > about stock http://www.filtechcomputer.com/index.php#TV%20Tuner > > Beware: some Hauppauge cards come with remote controls and some don't. > My myth to explain this is that WinXP MCE mandates a system-wide > remote control standard and so it may mean that it sometimes makes > sense to leave it out of the individual card bundle. I specifically got the 500 because I thought two tuners in one pci slot with one cable connector was handy, and my choice of case includes a remote (which can also be bought seperately with a 5-1/4" drive bay IR receiver/ 16x2 line display). > Windows XP MCE only supports a limited variety of cards (perhaps MS > demands a cut). As far as I know, this does not include the Adaptec > card, and this is probably why it is being blown out so cheaply. > (Even I "own" a copy of WinXP MCE -- it is bundled with a lot of PCs.) Well microsoft wants you to use their remote with their interface, which of course means any remote that isn't like their interface expects would be a pain. My remote does seem like it was based on the requirements of MCE though given it has 'my *' buttons for all sorts of stuff, along with the ability to be used as a mouse. I should start working on mapping all the remote buttons to useful things in mythtv. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:56:31 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:56:31 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061026135631.GK30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:47:20PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Anyone have rabbit ears? You can probably see the CN Tower from the > Linuxcaffe. One set, handed around, ought to be enough. Don't forget > the thingee to change the impedence (75 Ohm vs 300 Ohm?). > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my valley -- then I'd try for > HDTV over the air.) I used to live on the 21th floor of an appartment building at islington and the 401, facing south. I could usually get 15 to 20 stations with rabbit ears. Anything from the CN tower or buffalo was pretty easy to get, with things from hamilton/cambridge area a little bit harder to get a good signal on. Of course anything north of me I couldn't get due to the building being in the way. As far as I could tell from talking to a few neighbours, everyone on the north side of the building had satelite or cable, and most people on the south side didn't bother. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:57:00 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:57:00 -0400 Subject: Postfix, Rogers, and SMTP AUTH Message-ID: Hello! I am in need of a Postfix guru's help. I'd like to know how to get Postfix to send all outbound mail from addresses of the form "user-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org" Rogers' SMTP server, and be able to log in via SMTP AUTH. Has anyone out there configured something like that? Rogers blocks outbound SMTP from anywhere except their mail server, so I need to forward my mail there. I've perused the Postfix documentation lightly, but nothing has really popped out at me. I'm sure there's a directive or map file somewhere, but I figure someone on this list has likely already done this. Thanks, pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:58:40 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:58:40 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1161837729.11708.264.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 12:42:09AM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > i have lately set up some systems with 10-12-16 GB of ram and even > embarking on larger. > SUSE 10 seems to put the swap at 2GB (i guess as a max) once you are up > to these type of RAM numbers (this is in its standard install > configuration recommendation). > So I am thinking that there is generally never a need to go more the 2GB > of HD swap? (at least in Novell's opinion) > Now with ram being so darn cheap, how about a 16 GB system, > but put 2GB of that into a RAM based FS and mount that as your SWAP :) > kinda defeats the purpose, but at least Linux will have its swap > space :) Swapping to ram would be completely pointless and rather stupid. Mouting tmp in ram using tmpfs makes perfectly good sense though. Why copy stuff from one part of ram to another through multiple layers of block emulation for no useful purpose? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:00:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:00:48 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061026140048.GM30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 02:25:02AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The > former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter through > my ADSL connection. > > The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that they've > throttled it way down to make it reliable. > > Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I > remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% smaller). > Both times seem pretty bad. > > I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a > faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it > is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit waiting > to happen. Based on what I have read, Rogers does deliberately throttle bittorrent, at least outgoing. I sometimes see good incoming speed on bittorrent, but not very often. I never see anything decent outgoing from it. Meanwhile http downloads will go ahead at 600KB/s. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:02:45 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:02:45 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026025206.1dd60c81-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 02:52:06AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I strongly suspect that some ISP's throttle bittorrent traffic. I experienced > an inexplicable drop in bittorrent d/l speeds, I could not download anything > faster than 5 or 6 KB/s. I found out on the Azureus forums that a lot of people > were experiencing this. When I followed the instructions, and enabled strong > encryption, all of a sudden speed shop right back up. Bittorrent does encryption? How did you do that and is that part of the protocol (I have never really looked into how bittorrent's protocol works at a low level, only the concept level). > Well 'shot' isn't a good word for the speeds I get w/ Symcraptico, but > anyway ;) > > It adds just little bit more CPU usage to an already somewhat resource-hungry > Java app, but hey, I can still play Urban Terror while it's running in the > systray, so it's okay with me :) Hmm, I just use bittornado, which doesn't seem to hard on my 700mhz cpu. I do stop it while playing NWN though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:04:13 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:04:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <4540B205.4000102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061026100413.7605b2a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:03:01 -0400 Ivan Avery Frey got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > They could argue that you can't setup your computer like a server. When > you're filesharing technically your computer is also a server. Strictly speaking, lots of apps people use every day act as a 'server'. Anything on your local machine that accepts incoming connections could be called a 'server', no? Hell, they should then ban the use of Windows completely, since it runs several such services by default ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Hey, you know what might be a hoot? Professor: No. Why would I know that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:59:58 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:59:58 -0400 Subject: Open education resource models under discussion Message-ID: <200610260959.58707.marc@lijour.net> http://istresults.cordis.europa.eu/index.cfm/section/news/tpl/news/BrowsingType/News/ID/88754 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:08:51 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:08:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061026100851.26efda46@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:15:29 -0400 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > They do watch ports IIRC, but their real strategy is at the packet level > where their systems check packet headers and block anything bittorrent. I knew it! And the most evil part of it is, their blocking affects your connection _in general_, ie. I was finding that as soon as I fired up Bittorrent, even browsing the Web was pointless, it was like being on a dialup connection. Oh, well, whatever 'block' they put up, there's always a way around it. ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mom's son: "Hell hath no fury like the vast robot armies of a woman scorned." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:12:12 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:12:12 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061026101212.7ec01b7c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:15:29 -0400 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > but their real strategy is at the packet level where their systems check > packet headers The question I always wanted to ask them about things like this is: 'Would you do the same thing with my phone?' -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I don't know why, but when I look down at their little faces it makes me want to puke... in a good way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:07:22 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:07:22 -0400 Subject: SELF Project In-Reply-To: <200610260942.16016.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200610260942.16016.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610260707k3f09c9b9q7ab5643a8e1d44b@mail.gmail.com> On 10/26/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > Short presentation explaining what is this project, what are its stakeholders > and their roadmap. > > ftp://ftp.cordis.europa.eu/pub/ist/docs/directorate_d/st-ds/sept-25-2006-self_en.pdf I love the acronym: S - Science: validation/falsifiability E - Education: of vendor neutral concepts and processes L - Learning: only when you can study how it works - learn it yourself F - Freedom: to make choices -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:18:02 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026100851.26efda46-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100851.26efda46@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: >I knew it! And the most evil part of it is, their blocking affects your >connection _in general_, ie. I was finding that as soon as I fired up >Bittorrent, even browsing the Web was pointless, Not necessarily. Remember that your cable connection is asymmetric, so you should get 3-6Mbps inbound (to your home) but only about 400kbps outbound (to Rogers' network). If you use bittorrent, your PC will be pushing data out as well as sucking it in. As soon as the outbound traffic gets near the 400kbps mark, you're hosed, as any *other* outbound traffic (HTTP requests, for example) will be queued up waiting to go, and may wait a l_o_n_g time before they get transmitted. You can do cool things with PF and ALTQ to rate-limit your outbound bittorrent traffic, which should speed things up dramatically. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:24:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:24:32 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026100851.26efda46-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100851.26efda46@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026142432.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 10:08:51AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I knew it! And the most evil part of it is, their blocking affects your > connection _in general_, ie. I was finding that as soon as I fired up > Bittorrent, even browsing the Web was pointless, it was like being on a dialup > connection. > > Oh, well, whatever 'block' they put up, there's always a way around it. ;) Actually I find bittorrent slow on rogers, while my web browsing and http downloads go along at flying speeds. So no their bittorrent blocking has no effect what so ever on my http speeds. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:38:49 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:38:49 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280610260738i3c39201cnafcaead14a7335f2@mail.gmail.com> On 10/25/06, Giles Orr wrote: > Can anyone explain the whole swap=2xRAM thing to me? Thanks. I kind of thought the reasons for that rule had passed into history, and the discussion seems to agree. Thanks everyone for helping out on this. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 14:44:34 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:44:34 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <20061026135840.GL30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1161873874.11708.307.camel@stan64.site> this was only to address the issue that maybe some kernels would object to the absence of swap, and this would trick it. if one is sure that turing vm off in their particular kernel version is ok, then yep, no point in doing below. -tl On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 09:58 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 12:42:09AM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > > i have lately set up some systems with 10-12-16 GB of ram and even > > embarking on larger. > > SUSE 10 seems to put the swap at 2GB (i guess as a max) once you are up > > to these type of RAM numbers (this is in its standard install > > configuration recommendation). > > So I am thinking that there is generally never a need to go more the 2GB > > of HD swap? (at least in Novell's opinion) > > Now with ram being so darn cheap, how about a 16 GB system, > > but put 2GB of that into a RAM based FS and mount that as your SWAP :) > > kinda defeats the purpose, but at least Linux will have its swap > > space :) > > Swapping to ram would be completely pointless and rather stupid. > Mouting tmp in ram using tmpfs makes perfectly good sense though. Why > copy stuff from one part of ram to another through multiple layers of > block emulation for no useful purpose? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:02:12 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:02:12 -0400 Subject: Postfix, Rogers, and SMTP AUTH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all. Good ol' Google! Found something that outlines exactly what I needed to do. http://www.clarkconnect.com/wiki/index.php?title=Howtos_-_SMTP_Authentication_to_ISP pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:13:30 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:13:30 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4540D09A.4060708@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The > former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter through > my ADSL connection. > > The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that they've > throttled it way down to make it reliable. > > Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I > remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% smaller). > Both times seem pretty bad. > > I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a > faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it > is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit waiting > to happen. I've never used Bit Torrent, but downloading SUSE 10.1 from a mirror was nowhere near that long. It might be an issue with BT. What happens if you try going directly to a mirror? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:18:36 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061025202336.23825.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50194.207.188.66.236.1161875916.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my valley -- then I'd try for > HDTV over the air.) Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that are being scrapped everywhere, you could probably build a very, very tall tower... ;) But it might need aircraft warning lights. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:27:04 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:27:04 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <4540D09A.4060708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4540D09A.4060708@rogers.com> Message-ID: >From what I can tell, the cable ISP's in Canada are much more throttle happy. Rogers uses a couple fo techniques to determine bittorrent traffic, and yes, throttles it. Near as I can tell, Sympatico does not throttle anything. I suspect they will on their new Fiber to the Premises service, however. Before Rogers started throttling bittorrent connections, I could easily reach 450-500+KBps. Afterwards, download speeds rarely broke 30, but upload speeds continued unabated. Shaw is actually the worst. In addition to throttling your downloads from various services, they also use Per Packet Scheduling, or Per Packet Routing. Since PPS almost gaurantees that your packets will arrive at the other end in a completely random order, it destroys any services like VoIP. Funnily enough, they seem to implement PPS around the same time as they roll out their own Digital Home Phone service in an area. Go figure. On 10/26/06, James Knott wrote: > > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I've just finished downloading Fedora Core 6 for x86_64 and i386. The > > former I downloaded the my Rogers Extreme connection, the latter through > > my ADSL connection. > > > > The ADSL connection is pretty bad: I'm far enough from the CO that > they've > > throttled it way down to make it reliable. > > > > Even so, both downloards took about the same time (~36 hours, if I > > remember correctly). True, the ADSL's dowload was about 10% smaller). > > Both times seem pretty bad. > > > > I don't know what to do about Rogers and Bit Torrent. They advertised a > > faster connection if I paid $100 for the modem. But when it matters, it > > is actually slower. Much slower. I wonder if there is a lawsuit > waiting > > to happen. > > I've never used Bit Torrent, but downloading SUSE 10.1 from a mirror was > nowhere near that long. It might be an issue with BT. What happens if > you try going directly to a mirror? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:29:02 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:29:02 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026142432.GO30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100851.26efda46@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026142432.GO30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0610260829s1ba845aah33338504d52b9df2@mail.gmail.com> On 10/26/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 10:08:51AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > I knew it! And the most evil part of it is, their blocking affects your > > connection _in general_, ie. I was finding that as soon as I fired up > > Bittorrent, even browsing the Web was pointless, it was like being on a dialup > > connection. > > > > Oh, well, whatever 'block' they put up, there's always a way around it. ;) > > Actually I find bittorrent slow on rogers, while my web browsing and > http downloads go along at flying speeds. So no their bittorrent > blocking has no effect what so ever on my http speeds. Bittorrent is definately slow on Rogers... when unencrypted. This blocking is so common among service provideres now that it's included and on by default in the big Bittorrent clients. This also depends on your definition of "slow". By "slow", I mean that last I checked a few months ago, it was utterly unusable, as opposed to bittorrent's normal... slow speeds due to most p2p members throttling their upstream for fear of starving their downstream. Unencrypted speeds would start okay.... then rapidly decay into infinite ETAs. Turning on encryption reduces the ETA to a day or so for 1GB of popular data. Occasionally somebody doesn't have a cap on their upstream and you get their full upstream in your downstream, but even then, it's not as fast as downloading from a service provider's connection when they're not serving many clients. I was surprised at the degree of throttling. If they just set it to a reasonable level, then nobody would bother downloading a new client with encryption. Unfortunately they didn't leave legitimate users of Bittorrent with a lot of options. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:51:23 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <50194.207.188.66.236.1161875916.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50194.207.188.66.236.1161875916.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20061026155123.74376.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my valley -- > then I'd try for > > HDTV over the air.) > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that are > being scrapped > everywhere, you could probably build a very, very > tall tower... ;) > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. Among other things. Several years ago I looked into what was involved in getting an outdoor amateur radio antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time (and I am not sure if things have changed since) word was that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need a permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet and be ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further this was for the old City of Toronto, North York I gather had (has?) somewhat different rules. Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. that moved into an area where outdoor antennas were (due to zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a big flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The reason the flag pole was a solution was because the pole was made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he hid his antenna... :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 15:40:52 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:40:52 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026100413.7605b2a3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100413.7605b2a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4540D704.30106@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:03:01 -0400 > Ivan Avery Frey got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> They could argue that you can't setup your computer like a server. When >> you're filesharing technically your computer is also a server. > > Strictly speaking, lots of apps people use every day act as a 'server'. > Anything on your local machine that accepts incoming connections could be > called a 'server', no? > > Hell, they should then ban the use of Windows completely, since it runs several > such services by default ;) > They should ban it anyway, just to get rid of all the security and spam issues. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 16:47:59 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:47:59 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026140245.GN30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:02:45 -0400 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Bittorrent does encryption? How did you do that and is that part of the > protocol (I have never really looked into how bittorrent's protocol > works at a low level, only the concept level). I only know how to do it Azureus, though other clients have this capability. In Options, you can change your settings under 'Mode' to Intermediate (Beginner is default), then you can access the transport encryption settings. I use the highest, and I have not had any problems since (fingers crossed). Here's some info on other clients and how it works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_protocol_encryption -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Nowadays people aren't interested in art that's not tattooed on fat guys. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 16:54:59 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:54:59 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100851.26efda46@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026125459.2e40f15f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:18:02 -0400 Paul Nash got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Remember that your cable connection is asymmetric, so you should get > 3-6Mbps inbound (to your home) but only about 400kbps outbound (to Rogers' > network). If you use bittorrent, your PC will be pushing data out as well > as sucking it in. As soon as the outbound traffic gets near the 400kbps > mark, you're hosed, as any *other* outbound traffic (HTTP requests, for > example) will be queued up waiting to go, and may wait a l_o_n_g time > before they get transmitted. Already had my upstream set to a generous but reasonable level. No matter how I set it, high or low, same result. I don't know for *sure* the two things were related, only that they both got better after enabling encryption. I've seen reports on other lists and on the Azureus forums that a lot of people experienced the same thing, so I can only assume. I know, 'ass u me', etc. ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "Hey, guess what you're accessories to?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 17:03:47 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1161873874.11708.307.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1161873874.11708.307.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, ted leslie wrote: > this was only to address the issue that maybe some kernels would object > to the absence of swap, and this would trick it. > if one is sure that turing vm off in their particular kernel version > is ok, then yep, no point in doing below. To the best of my knowledge Linux will run quite happily (although suboptimally) without swap, unlike some older versions of *nix which needed swap to avoid memory fragmentation. I recommend always using swap for the performance enhancements it offers (see my earlier posts), not because the system needs it. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 17:08:36 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:08:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <4540D704.30106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100413.7605b2a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4540D704.30106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061026130836.25deb676@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:40:52 -0400 James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > They should ban it anyway, just to get rid of all the security and spam > issues. Heh, if Symcraptico every ditched support for Windows, they could cut their 'Tech Support' (ROTFL!) staff down to like *one person* ;) What kind of calls would they get? Jeez, *they'd* be calling *you* out of sheer loneliness and boredom! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: "Good news. There's a report on TV with some very bad news." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 17:24:56 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:24:56 -0400 Subject: Postfix, Rogers, and SMTP AUTH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061026132456.70837abf@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:02:12 -0400 Paul Mora got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Good ol' Google! Found something that outlines exactly what I needed to do. > > http://www.clarkconnect.com/wiki/index.php?title=Howtos_-_SMTP_Authentication_to_ISP Nice. Added to my 'howtos'. If Sympatic-uh-oh ever figures out what smtp authentication is, I'll be ready :) (if anyone's wondering why I whinge about Sympatico and continue to use it, I'm kinda tied to it for reasons beyond my control). -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: "Make up some feelings and tell her you have them. Yes?" Zoidberg: "Is the desire to mate a feeling?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 18:09:46 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:09:46 -0400 Subject: SELF Project In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610260707k3f09c9b9q7ab5643a8e1d44b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200610260942.16016.marc@lijour.net> <99a6c38f0610260707k3f09c9b9q7ab5643a8e1d44b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4540F9EA.4@interlog.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > I love the acronym: > > S - Science: validation/falsifiability Doesn't sound to me like falsifiability would be a good word to include in the explanation of the meaning behind part of the acronym. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 18:17:47 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:17:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SELF Project In-Reply-To: <4540F9EA.4-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200610260942.16016.marc@lijour.net> <99a6c38f0610260707k3f09c9b9q7ab5643a8e1d44b@mail.gmail.com> <4540F9EA.4@interlog.com> Message-ID: falsification != falsifiability http://www.google.ca/search?num=100&hl=en&q=define%3Afalsification http://www.google.ca/search?num=100&hl=en&q=define%3Afalsifiability On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> I love the acronym: >> >> S - Science: validation/falsifiability > > Doesn't sound to me like falsifiability would be a good word to include in > the explanation of the meaning behind part of the acronym. > > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 18:41:40 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:41:40 -0400 Subject: Postfix, Rogers, and SMTP AUTH In-Reply-To: <20061026132456.70837abf-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026132456.70837abf@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: Another good doc, with a bit more information in it on what you're actually doing is: http://postfix.state-of-mind.de/patrick.koetter/smtpauth/smtp_auth_mailservers.html pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 19:04:17 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:04:17 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026130836.25deb676-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100413.7605b2a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4540D704.30106@rogers.com> <20061026130836.25deb676@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <454106B1.3010901@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:40:52 -0400 > James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> They should ban it anyway, just to get rid of all the security and spam >> issues. > > Heh, if Symcraptico every ditched support for Windows, they could cut their > 'Tech Support' (ROTFL!) staff down to like *one person* ;) > > What kind of calls would they get? Jeez, *they'd* be calling *you* out of sheer > loneliness and boredom! > I had to call Symatico a few times, about a customer's connection. This service is connected directly to some communications equipment, without a computer within 100 feet. The "help" desk gets lost if the fix doesn't begin with "Click on the Start button". When I tried to explain that there was no computer, I was told they don't support that situation and end of call. This is for a large corporation, paying for business level service. Turns out it was a Symatico problem, but until I put a Wikndows PC on the line, they didn't want to talk to me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 19:26:18 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <20061026135840.GL30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Swapping to ram would be completely pointless and rather stupid. Yes exactly :) > Mouting tmp in ram using tmpfs makes perfectly good sense though. Why > copy stuff from one part of ram to another through multiple layers of > block emulation for no useful purpose? I used to use tmpfs but I stopped doing so for two reasons. These reasons are important to me but they may not be as important to others... 1. tmpfs on Linux does not support quotas. I mostly admin on multi-user boxes and I don't want users being able to individually fill /tmp. This gives all users a bad day. 2. I haven't found a terribly huge performance improvement in using tmpfs. this is mainly because only a minority of file writes occur in /tmp. Yeah tmpfs can be used in places other than /tmp but in general these points still apply. This is why I've stopped using tmpfs. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 19:51:12 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:51:12 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061026155123.74376.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <50194.207.188.66.236.1161875916.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20061026155123.74376.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu Edgy has been released, and there's a handy guide for installing MythTV on it on the community docs page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV I would say this looks like the ticket, rather than an outdated KnoppMyth release. I know the Edgy packages are pulled from 0.20-fixes. On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my valley -- > > then I'd try for > > > HDTV over the air.) > > > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that are > > being scrapped > > everywhere, you could probably build a very, very > > tall tower... ;) > > > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. > > Among other things. Several years ago I looked into > what was involved in getting an outdoor amateur radio > antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time (and I > am not sure if things have changed since) word was > that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need a > permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet and be > ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further this > was for the old City of Toronto, North York I gather > had (has?) somewhat different rules. > > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. that > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were (due to > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a big > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The reason > the flag pole was a solution was because the pole was > made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he hid > his antenna... :-) . > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 19:54:24 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:54:24 -0400 Subject: SFU Survey - Government online and Open Source software In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0610151140k6dd43d26occdbd52aa12985a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45411270.6070509@interlog.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > This came in earlier through the CLUE mailing list. I think it was a > fairly well put together survey. It does have a good set of options most of the time. It does have some oddities though. I particularly like: Through what devices can you access the Internet from home? Please check all that apply. One of the options is: A mobile telephone or another wireless personal digital assistant (PDA) I didn't realize that all mobile telephones are wireless PDAs. Also interesting is that it still forces you to enter something for why you have the specified number of computers in your house even if you stated the number was "I decline to answer". They also don't have a choice that deals with multi-boot computers when asking what operating system is on the computer you use most. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 13:40:26 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:40:26 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <3190A42F-6289-498E-952E-E3A6227100C9-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> <45404A00.4010203@yahoo.ca> <3190A42F-6289-498E-952E-E3A6227100C9@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <4540BACA.4000600@yahoo.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 26-Oct-06, at 1:39 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: > >> Yes it does. There are some good developer blogs around if you're >> interested. >> >> You were talking about accessing a remote database without a browser >> -- That's a RIA and Flex is going places were AJAX can't. > Where is this going that AJAX can't ? Outside of the browser RIAs. Flex can "push" AJAX can't. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 20:16:28 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:16:28 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <4540BACA.4000600-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> <45404A00.4010203@yahoo.ca> <3190A42F-6289-498E-952E-E3A6227100C9@visibleassets.com> <4540BACA.4000600@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On 26-Oct-06, at 9:40 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> On 26-Oct-06, at 1:39 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: >> > >>> Yes it does. There are some good developer blogs around if you're >>> interested. >>> >>> You were talking about accessing a remote database without a browser >>> -- That's a RIA and Flex is going places were AJAX can't. > >> Where is this going that AJAX can't ? > > Outside of the browser RIAs. Flex can "push" AJAX can't. There are ways around AJAX pushing. I have no idea what an RIA is, however if there's no browser what's the difference between that and a thick client. btw, you might want to check out www.thinwire.com for a very cool AJAX client > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 17:43:34 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:43:34 -0400 Subject: More good news for open source Message-ID: <4540F3C6.2000101@telly.org> Oracle ramps up Red Hat support and indemnification: http://www.crncanada.ca/content/ebusiness/oracle-to-support-indemni.shtml Millions of pounds of public funding are put into two European projects designed to promote open source: http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?id=idgml-34ca5234-e609-4d9d Enjoy! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 20:53:51 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:53:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <454106B1.3010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4540B205.4000102@utoronto.ca> <20061026100413.7605b2a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4540D704.30106@rogers.com> <20061026130836.25deb676@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <454106B1.3010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061026165351.0fe4b5bf@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:04:17 -0400 James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Turns out it was a Symatico problem, but until I put a Wikndows PC on the > line, they didn't want to talk to me. Heh. I just tell them I've got a Win box, 'yeah, okay, Start, Control Panel, Networking, TCP/IP, yadda yadda. Nope, still not workin'. Only takes about five minutes, and it's better than trying to convince them that the fact you're running Linux is *not* the cause of the problem. I've heard lately they've even been telling people with physical firewalls (Linksys, etc.) to disconnect them, as they 'interfere' with the connection. Great advice... :-\ -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Loosely confederate colors of Benetton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 21:20:23 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061026212023.6535.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > Ubuntu Edgy has been released, and there's a handy > guide for installing > MythTV on it on the community docs page: > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV > > I would say this looks like the ticket, rather than > an outdated KnoppMyth > release. I know the Edgy packages are pulled from > 0.20-fixes. Shrug, I am not convinced on a few levels. MythTV 0.20 has been out for about 6 weeks (and we have over a week before the install so there may be a new version between now and then). Further KnoppMyth is a quicker less painful install that what is described in the above website, even with the partition nonsense that needs to be dealt with when it comes to KnoppMyth. On other notes, I was in at Factory Direct on College near Spadina and they have received some more of the Adaptec AVC-2410 cards which if you have a coupon are $29.99 (excellent deal, as these are basically Hauppage PVR-150 act alike (auto-detected and configured by KnoppMyth)). Colin McGregor > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my > valley -- > > > then I'd try for > > > > HDTV over the air.) > > > > > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that > are > > > being scrapped > > > everywhere, you could probably build a very, > very > > > tall tower... ;) > > > > > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. > > > > Among other things. Several years ago I looked > into > > what was involved in getting an outdoor amateur > radio > > antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time > (and I > > am not sure if things have changed since) word was > > that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need a > > permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet and be > > ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further > this > > was for the old City of Toronto, North York I > gather > > had (has?) somewhat different rules. > > > > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. > that > > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were > (due to > > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a > big > > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The > reason > > the flag pole was a solution was because the pole > was > > made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he > hid > > his antenna... :-) . > > > > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 21:43:02 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026130836.25deb676-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026130836.25deb676@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026214302.62463.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:40:52 -0400 > James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to > type out: > > > They should ban it anyway, just to get rid of all > the security and spam > > issues. > > Heh, if Symcraptico every ditched support for > Windows, they could cut their > 'Tech Support' (ROTFL!) staff down to like *one > person* ;) Well, there would still be the calls due to forgotten passwords and flakey/bad hardware. Still, they could likely ditch 90% of current staff... > What kind of calls would they get? Jeez, *they'd* be > calling *you* out of sheer > loneliness and boredom! Not quite, but at least the calls wouldn't be due to trash software :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 21:48:11 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026124759.35078fb9-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026214811.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 12:47:59PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I only know how to do it Azureus, though other clients have this capability. In > Options, you can change your settings under 'Mode' to Intermediate (Beginner is > default), then you can access the transport encryption settings. I use the > highest, and I have not had any problems since (fingers crossed). I won't deal with java stuff. > Here's some info on other clients and how it works: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_protocol_encryption I found that. I guess I will try ktorrent for a bit, until some day when bittornado might actually add support for encryption. Too bad, I prefer text based programs in general. I will see how it goes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:05:26 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:05:26 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061026212023.6535.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026212023.6535.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610261505x51b81ab3h5fbab126ce322dc7@mail.gmail.com> Hey Colin, I'll be trying to pick one up later on today, anything you can suggest having two tuners? I have not set up mythtv with 2 tuners before.. not to sure how to tell it which tuner to use. On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > > Ubuntu Edgy has been released, and there's a handy > > guide for installing > > MythTV on it on the community docs page: > > > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV > > > > I would say this looks like the ticket, rather than > > an outdated KnoppMyth > > release. I know the Edgy packages are pulled from > > 0.20-fixes. > > Shrug, I am not convinced on a few levels. MythTV 0.20 > has been out for about 6 weeks (and we have over a > week before the install so there may be a new version > between now and then). Further KnoppMyth is a quicker > less painful install that what is described in the > above website, even with the partition nonsense that > needs to be dealt with when it comes to KnoppMyth. > > On other notes, I was in at Factory Direct on College > near Spadina and they have received some more of the > Adaptec AVC-2410 cards which if you have a coupon are > $29.99 (excellent deal, as these are basically > Hauppage PVR-150 act alike (auto-detected and > configured by KnoppMyth)). > > Colin McGregor > > > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor > > wrote: > > > > > > --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my > > valley -- > > > > then I'd try for > > > > > HDTV over the air.) > > > > > > > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that > > are > > > > being scrapped > > > > everywhere, you could probably build a very, > > very > > > > tall tower... ;) > > > > > > > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. > > > > > > Among other things. Several years ago I looked > > into > > > what was involved in getting an outdoor amateur > > radio > > > antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time > > (and I > > > am not sure if things have changed since) word was > > > that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need a > > > permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet and be > > > ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further > > this > > > was for the old City of Toronto, North York I > > gather > > > had (has?) somewhat different rules. > > > > > > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. > > that > > > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were > > (due to > > > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a > > big > > > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The > > reason > > > the flag pole was a solution was because the pole > > was > > > made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he > > hid > > > his antenna... :-) . > > > > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:35:13 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:35:13 -0400 Subject: Caanadian Cafe Press style store Message-ID: 2006/10/22, John McGregor wrote: > I have had a part time small business for a while now that services the > I.T. needs of older adults. After I finish school, I am going to put a > lot of energy into developing it into a full time situation. I've been > learning and using Linux on the desktop for some time now and quite > frankly, the Windows centric courses at Ryerson didn't teach me a lot > more than I already knew. The management courses though were pretty > interesting. I have also noticed, now that my time at Ryerson is almost > over, that I seem to have more credibility with my target audience. > Overall, I would say that the experience has been well worth the effort > Cool! Do you have a website for the business? Please CC me, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. 416-781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:35:46 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:35:46 -0400 Subject: Caanadian Cafe Press style store In-Reply-To: <20061022195733.31DB085517-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <453AF483.90206@rogers.com> <20061022195733.31DB085517@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: 2006/10/22, Dave Mason : > If you were taking CompSci rather than ITM you would have gotten a > larger dose of Linux/Unix, although even we do far more Windows crap > than I think is healthy for a young computer scientist. > And far more Java, too, I bet :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:37:28 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:37:28 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610261505x51b81ab3h5fbab126ce322dc7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026212023.6535.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880610261505x51b81ab3h5fbab126ce322dc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610261537h6c340838u8ad40ac6ff597a84@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, What's the official day for the Mythtv INSTALL? On 10/26/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hey Colin, > > I'll be trying to pick one up later on today, anything you can suggest > having two tuners? > > I have not set up mythtv with 2 tuners before.. not to sure how to tell it > which tuner to use. > > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > > > Ubuntu Edgy has been released, and there's a handy > > > guide for installing > > > MythTV on it on the community docs page: > > > > > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV > > > > > > I would say this looks like the ticket, rather than > > > an outdated KnoppMyth > > > release. I know the Edgy packages are pulled from > > > 0.20-fixes. > > > > Shrug, I am not convinced on a few levels. MythTV 0.20 > > has been out for about 6 weeks (and we have over a > > week before the install so there may be a new version > > between now and then). Further KnoppMyth is a quicker > > less painful install that what is described in the > > above website, even with the partition nonsense that > > needs to be dealt with when it comes to KnoppMyth. > > > > On other notes, I was in at Factory Direct on College > > near Spadina and they have received some more of the > > Adaptec AVC-2410 cards which if you have a coupon are > > $29.99 (excellent deal, as these are basically > > Hauppage PVR-150 act alike (auto-detected and > > configured by KnoppMyth)). > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my > > > valley -- > > > > > then I'd try for > > > > > > HDTV over the air.) > > > > > > > > > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers that > > > are > > > > > being scrapped > > > > > everywhere, you could probably build a very, > > > very > > > > > tall tower... ;) > > > > > > > > > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. > > > > > > > > Among other things. Several years ago I looked > > > into > > > > what was involved in getting an outdoor amateur > > > radio > > > > antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time > > > (and I > > > > am not sure if things have changed since) word was > > > > that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need a > > > > permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet and be > > > > ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further > > > this > > > > was for the old City of Toronto, North York I > > > gather > > > > had (has?) somewhat different rules. > > > > > > > > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. > > > that > > > > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were > > > (due to > > > > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a > > > big > > > > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The > > > reason > > > > the flag pole was a solution was because the pole > > > was > > > > made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he > > > hid > > > > his antenna... :-) . > > > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:38:52 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:38:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: <20061025001200.0b641300-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1384277706451157121 White and Nerdy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:49:25 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:49:25 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026214811.GP30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026214811.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061026184925.3e580a5b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Too bad, I prefer text based programs in general. Yeah, esp when you can leave it running in a screen session, even better, over SSH. Add in a transparent term, and all my Win-using friends think I'm some kind of l33t h4x0r, or whatever. I must admit, I don't do a whole lot to discourage that egregious misconception ;) I really hate to use a GUI, esp Java, when a few simple commands will do, but Azureus is one of the exceptions I'll make. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "Hey, guess what you're accessories to?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 22:53:02 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:53:02 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026214811.GP30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026214811.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061026185302.576e7433@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I won't deal with java stuff. Heh, missed that. Sometimes, from talking to people, I get this impression the only people who really like Java are Java programmers... :DD -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Don't take this the wrong way, Fry, but you don't seem like the educated type." -Leela -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 23:17:39 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:17:39 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061026155123.74376.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <50194.207.188.66.236.1161875916.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20061026155123.74376.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061026191739.0999266f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Colin McGregor got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the U.S. that > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were (due to > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put up a big > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The reason > the flag pole was a solution was because the pole was > made from plastic, and inside the pole is where he hid > his antenna... :-) Now *that's* the America I love :-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Well I don't have anything else planned for today, let's get drunk! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 23:26:14 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:26:14 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610251814.39883.softquake@gmail.com> <453FF83D.3040907@yahoo.ca> <200610252134.38255.softquake@gmail.com> <45404A00.4010203@yahoo.ca> <3190A42F-6289-498E-952E-E3A6227100C9@visibleassets.com> <4540BACA.4000600@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45414416.6080709@yahoo.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 26-Oct-06, at 9:40 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: > >> Dave Cramer wrote: >>> >>> On 26-Oct-06, at 1:39 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: >>> >> >>>> Yes it does. There are some good developer blogs around if you're >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> You were talking about accessing a remote database without a browser >>>> -- That's a RIA and Flex is going places were AJAX can't. >> >>> Where is this going that AJAX can't ? >> >> Outside of the browser RIAs. Flex can "push" AJAX can't. > > There are ways around AJAX pushing. I have no idea what an RIA is, > however if there's no browser what's the difference between that and a > thick client. An RIA is somewhat lighter and runs on all platforms visually the same, with similar performance. At least that's the idea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Internet_application) > btw, you might want to check out www.thinwire.com for a very cool AJAX > client Looks interesting. :) Another technology that I'm somewhat familiar with is; OpenLaszlo, (http://www.openlaszlo.org/) which has an Eclipse plugin, as does Flex. I suppose Laszlo is probably more appro for GNU/OSS followers, than perhaps Flex/Apollo, although Flex/Apollo is where the momentum is. BTW Flex/Apollo play with AJAX quite nicely, via the SPRY framework (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Spry). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 23:27:38 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:27:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026192738.21d50088@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:38:52 -0400 Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > White and Nerdy Oh, man. 'I'm a Champion of DnD; you can keep your Forty; I got my Earl Grey Tea!' That's just bloody brilliant :DD -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Bender, we didn't mind your drinking or your kleptomania or your pornography ring." -Leela "In fact, that's why we love you." -Zoidberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 26 23:29:00 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:29:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026192900.012a797d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:38:52 -0400 Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > White and Nerdy ...and I had Flash 9 installed just in time, I see. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Bachelor Chow. Now with flavor." -announcer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 00:07:33 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:07:33 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: <20061026192900.012a797d-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026192900.012a797d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: no need for Flash 9.. I actually downgraded to 7 cause the beta's sound would break if it got choked on resources for even a short time.. On 10/26/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:38:52 -0400 > Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > White and Nerdy > > ...and I had Flash 9 installed just in time, I see. > > -- > JoeHill / RLU #282046 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "Bachelor Chow. Now with flavor." -announcer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 00:37:17 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:37:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Don't Download This Song by Weird Al Yankovic In-Reply-To: References: <453E4E81.3070302@utoronto.ca> <20061025001200.0b641300@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026192900.012a797d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061026203717.108c6214@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:07:33 -0400 Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > no need for Flash 9.. I actually downgraded to 7 cause the beta's > sound would break if it got choked on resources for even a short > time.. Ya, it just hit me, I was looking at the version number in the player :-\ Duh. That explains why I'm still a 'newbie' after 5 years ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ nappster.com: Download any celebrity from A.A. Milne to Z.Z. Top -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 00:54:01 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:54:01 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <45414416.6080709-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <45414416.6080709@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200610262054.01624.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 26 October 2006 19:26, Stephen Allen wrote: > An RIA is somewhat lighter and runs on all platforms visually the same, > with similar performance. At least that's the idea. > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Internet_application) All this is mambo-jumbo, just words. > > btw, you might want to check out www.thinwire.com for a very cool AJAX > > client > > Looks interesting. :) > > Another technology that I'm somewhat familiar with is; > OpenLaszlo, (http://www.openlaszlo.org/) which has an Eclipse plugin, as > does Flex. > > I suppose Laszlo is probably more appro for GNU/OSS followers, than > perhaps Flex/Apollo, although Flex/Apollo is where the momentum is. > > BTW Flex/Apollo play with AJAX quite nicely, via the SPRY framework > (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Spry). The idea is called Ajax. Around it many just create their own framework and call it by their name of choice. There is nothing much beside that in these "technologies". I myself almost hate to use a programming on a top of another programming if I do not have to. In the case of Ajax - I do not have to. All can be done by using JavaScript, DOM effects, and some server side programming of own choice. There is no need to invent any new "technology" of that kind. In fact these things are not "new" "technologies" at all. Laszlo is based on Java. I am like most - not a programmer of it (though can deal with it well) and aperentely because of that not liking it ;) The idea of Ajax is very simple. Everyone who has some experience with JavaScript and server-side programming (including database interactivity) will do. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 05:38:53 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 27 Oct 2006 01:38:53 -0400 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1161873874.11708.307.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: Robert Brockway writes: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, ted leslie wrote: > > > this was only to address the issue that maybe some kernels would object > > to the absence of swap, and this would trick it. > > if one is sure that turing vm off in their particular kernel version > > is ok, then yep, no point in doing below. > > To the best of my knowledge Linux will run quite happily (although > suboptimally) without swap, unlike some older versions of *nix which needed > swap to avoid memory fragmentation. There are good reasons to not use swap. On a notebook, using swap can prevent the HD from spinning down, thus reducing the amount of time you can run without battery. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 08:53:55 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 04:53:55 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? Message-ID: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> hard to believe in one month redhat has gone down nearly 50%! (i.e. 27 down to 14) due to Oracle? if oracle was going to acquire redhat, they have a good plan!! but how legal would this be? blatantly tank a stock, to then just swoop it up? I am agonizing here on whether to buy Redhat stock! If oracle then buys it, its likely to double! Thoughts? Irregardless Oracle is REALLY up to something here! -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 11:35:01 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610261505x51b81ab3h5fbab126ce322dc7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880610261505x51b81ab3h5fbab126ce322dc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061027113501.7562.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Colin, > > I'll be trying to pick one up later on today, > anything you can suggest > having two tuners? Just make sure they are using the same driver (i.e.: ivtv (used by the cards that do hardware encoding the Hauppage PVR cards, and Adaptec AVC-2410) or the v4l (used by the cheap/nasty tuner cards)). > I have not set up mythtv with 2 tuners before.. not > to sure how to tell it > which tuner to use. With recording you don't directly tell MythTV which tuner to use. You can specify preferences. Say tuner 0 is tied to an antenna that gets fantastic reception, but only a handfull of channels, tuner 1 is tied to cable TV, so-so quality but a huge number of channels. You can specify that tuner 0 gets a +1 priority so given a choice MythTV should record from tuner 0, but if something is only available via tuner 1, it will go that way. My own set-up, both cards are tied to the same cable TV signal and both cards are at priority 0 (the default). > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > > > Ubuntu Edgy has been released, and there's a > handy > > > guide for installing > > > MythTV on it on the community docs page: > > > > > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV > > > > > > I would say this looks like the ticket, rather > than > > > an outdated KnoppMyth > > > release. I know the Edgy packages are pulled > from > > > 0.20-fixes. > > > > Shrug, I am not convinced on a few levels. MythTV > 0.20 > > has been out for about 6 weeks (and we have over a > > week before the install so there may be a new > version > > between now and then). Further KnoppMyth is a > quicker > > less painful install that what is described in the > > above website, even with the partition nonsense > that > > needs to be dealt with when it comes to KnoppMyth. > > > > On other notes, I was in at Factory Direct on > College > > near Spadina and they have received some more of > the > > Adaptec AVC-2410 cards which if you have a coupon > are > > $29.99 (excellent deal, as these are basically > > Hauppage PVR-150 act alike (auto-detected and > > configured by KnoppMyth)). > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > > On 10/26/06, Colin McGregor > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > > > (I wish I could see the CN Tower from my > > > valley -- > > > > > then I'd try for > > > > > > HDTV over the air.) > > > > > > > > > > Using a bunch of those domestic TV towers > that > > > are > > > > > being scrapped > > > > > everywhere, you could probably build a very, > > > very > > > > > tall tower... ;) > > > > > > > > > > But it might need aircraft warning lights. > > > > > > > > Among other things. Several years ago I looked > > > into > > > > what was involved in getting an outdoor > amateur > > > radio > > > > antenna (my licence being VE3ZAA). At the time > > > (and I > > > > am not sure if things have changed since) word > was > > > > that antenna towers under 65 feet did NOT need > a > > > > permit from the city. Anything over 65 feet > and be > > > > ready to play nice down at city hall.. Further > > > this > > > > was for the old City of Toronto, North York I > > > gather > > > > had (has?) somewhat different rules. > > > > > > > > Read about one Amateur Radio operator in the > U.S. > > > that > > > > moved into an area where outdoor antennas were > > > (due to > > > > zoning laws) illegal. His solution was to put > up a > > > big > > > > flag pole with a big U.S. flag at the top. The > > > reason > > > > the flag pole was a solution was because the > pole > > > was > > > > made from plastic, and inside the pole is > where he > > > hid > > > > his antenna... :-) . > > > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 11:42:16 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610261537h6c340838u8ad40ac6ff597a84-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880610261537h6c340838u8ad40ac6ff597a84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey All, > > > What's the official day for the Mythtv > INSTALL? We are going to go with a KnoppMyth install event starting Saturday November 4th, 11:00 AM - to say 3:00 PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord Street (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 minute walk away). The focus of this will be to do a hands on event, doing actual installs. Now here is hoping that we don't get say 50 people showing up at this as Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want to be at this installfest please e-mail me so if it looks like we will be short on space we can start making alternate plans. When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or better): - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives but MUCH more is strongly recommended) - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or better) video cards) Any questions? Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 12:26:49 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:26:49 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <1161939235.11708.331.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> They tried the (more or less) same thing with PeopleSoft. Remember in 2004 Oracle announced that they were going to buy PeopleSoft and shut down their products.. Now who's gunna invest $m in PeopleSoft if the product is going to die a quick death. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of ted leslie > Sent: October 27, 2006 4:54 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? > > hard to believe in one month redhat has gone down nearly 50%! (i.e. 27 > down to 14) > > due to Oracle? > > if oracle was going to acquire redhat, they have a good plan!! > but how legal would this be? > blatantly tank a stock, to then just swoop it up? > > I am agonizing here on whether to buy Redhat stock! > If oracle then buys it, its likely to double! > > Thoughts? > > Irregardless Oracle is REALLY up to something here! > > -tl > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 13:11:25 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:11:25 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > They tried the (more or less) same thing with PeopleSoft. Remember in 2004 > Oracle announced that they were going to buy PeopleSoft and shut down their > products.. Now who's gunna invest $m in PeopleSoft if the product is going > to die a quick death. Ah, but part of what gives RHAT credibility in the Linux market is the fact that they are paying salaries for various developers of important Linux-related components, whether that be kernel, compilers, libraries (libc), and other such stuff. If I buy services from RHAT, I know I'm sponsoring that development. If I buy services from Oracle, I know I'm NOT sponsoring that sort of stuff. That's reason to prefer to buy services from RHAT; I know they are contributing something to things I'd consider some "greater good." That's only one more factor, but it is a factor... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 13:16:55 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:16:55 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901c6f9ca$35b2d420$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Agreed, Oracle is clearly going to come out the bad guy here. I think this is going to do allot of damage to Oracle's perception in the Open Source world; not as despised as SCO or M$ though. Interesting enough though, when Checkpoint built their SecurePlatform on RedHat (9 I think) there was not so much PR.... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > Christopher Browne > Sent: October 27, 2006 9:11 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? > > On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > They tried the (more or less) same thing with PeopleSoft. Remember in > 2004 > > Oracle announced that they were going to buy PeopleSoft and shut down > their > > products.. Now who's gunna invest $m in PeopleSoft if the product is > going > > to die a quick death. > > Ah, but part of what gives RHAT credibility in the Linux market is the > fact that they are paying salaries for various developers of important > Linux-related components, whether that be kernel, compilers, libraries > (libc), and other such stuff. > > If I buy services from RHAT, I know I'm sponsoring that development. > > If I buy services from Oracle, I know I'm NOT sponsoring that sort of > stuff. > > That's reason to prefer to buy services from RHAT; I know they are > contributing something to things I'd consider some "greater good." > > That's only one more factor, but it is a factor... > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 13:29:14 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:29:14 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <1161939235.11708.331.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <454209AA.1060806@telly.org> ted leslie wrote: > hard to believe in one month redhat has gone down nearly 50%! (i.e. 27 > down to 14) > > due to Oracle? > Yes. > if oracle was going to acquire redhat, they have a good plan!! > Oracle is taking a page from IBM's book: Don't waste your time on the heavy lifting of making your own distribution. Let someone else do it, but then offer your own training/support infrastructure, because that's where the money is. It's the rebirth of Linuxcare. The superficial news is that Red Hat benefits because of Oracle's support. The move makes Red Hat's software more popular and helps the brand, but it also added a huge new competitor to Red Hat in the lucrative fields of Linux support, training and custom development. Now Oracle and HP can walk into a big enterprise customer to pitch Linux, and Red Hat's only role is to move some boxed software. > I am agonizing here on whether to buy Redhat stock! If oracle then buys it, its likely to double! > May be, but arguably Oracle has the best of both worlds this way. Oracle gets to profit from the Red Hat name without the expense of buying Red Hat. Meanwhile, Red Hat itself would arguably suffer greatly from an Oracle aquisition, because its ties with IBM would be immediately severed. This would push IBM deeper into partnership with Novell (now THAT would be an interesting aquisition!), or energize the emerging relationship between IBM and Canonical. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 13:24:18 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:24:18 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061027114217.78003.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Would anyone be offering TV Cards for sale? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: October 27, 2006 7:42 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: MythTV install workshop? > > --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > > > What's the official day for the Mythtv > > INSTALL? > > We are going to go with a KnoppMyth install event > starting Saturday November 4th, 11:00 AM - to say 3:00 > PM. This will be at Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord Street > (nearest subway stop is Christie, about a 10 minute > walk away). The focus of this will be to do a hands on > event, doing actual installs. Now here is hoping that > we don't get say 50 people showing up at this as > Linuxcaffe is a small place... If you do want to be at > this installfest please e-mail me so if it looks like > we will be short on space we can start making > alternate plans. > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or > better): > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended) > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended) > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > but MUCH more is strongly recommended) > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > better) video cards) > > Any questions? > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 14:12:04 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:12:04 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <000901c6f9ca$35b2d420$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000901c6f9ca$35b2d420$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <454213B4.8080702@telly.org> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Oracle is clearly going to come out the bad guy here. You guys couldn't possibly be more wrong. They're going to get FOSS into places that never considered it before, including all those traditional "Oracle shops" who depend on Oracle for everything. Admins and developers who will be able to pay their mortgage -- while working on Linux -- will be celebrating, not denouncing, Oracle's support. > I think this is going to do allot of damage to Oracle's perception in the Open Source world; This makes no sense at all. Developer geeks never thought much of Oracle in the first place, and after all their main products are quite proprietary. So there's no damage to be done, the rep was never much to start with. OTOH, Oracle's embrace of Linux is going to create jobs -- maybe careers -- for people who know and work with open source. The net effect of Oracle's entry is a gain of Linux use and a gain in Linux employment -- the only real loser here is Red Hat, which now has a huge competitor that's arguably as aggressive and mercenary as Microsoft. Any non-Stallmanist who thinks this is a step backwards out to re-examine what it is they're trying to advocate in the first place. (And if you _are_ a Stallmanist, you've probably always hated Oracle anyway...) Of course, one can take it as a given that Oracle doesn't really much care about its rep amongst developer geeks. It's not in business to be loved, especially amongst anyone whose not a potential buyer of its products or services. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 14:25:44 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:25:44 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <454213B4.8080702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <000901c6f9ca$35b2d420$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <454213B4.8080702@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061027102544.349e4c23@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:12:04 -0400 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > You guys couldn't possibly be more wrong. Sure they could. They could claim, for example, that Oracle is part of a takeover of Earth by space aliens. Unless that's true, of course ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: "You know what I like best about you, Umbrielle? You find me fascinating, even when I'm not claiming to be a jewel thief or a lion tamer." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 14:36:12 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:36:12 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <4542195C.3000204@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > Ah, but part of what gives RHAT credibility in the Linux market is the > fact that they are paying salaries for various developers of important > Linux-related components, whether that be kernel, compilers, libraries > (libc), and other such stuff. And all that credibility and $2.75 (exact change, please) will get you on the TTC. Almost everyone who would use open source mainly because of its social conscience is already doing so. The IT decision makers who are yet to change don't give a rat's behind about what they're funding when they purchase software licenses, whether it's Linux kernel development or Larry Ellison's yachting experiments. Lots of people who despise Microsoft continue to use its product for a variety of reasons. In corporate IT, credibility is measure by the ability of a vendor to deliver on its promises. The number of developers being funded -- be they paid staff or community volunteers -- simply isn't part of the equation, and never really has been. In any case, let's not forget the amount of Linux talent that Oracle itself now needs to employ, to maintain the credibility that matters to _them_. In any case, even those working with Oracle's support still need to buy Red Hat's core product unless I missed the message that Oracle is supporting Fedora as well. It's just that they don't need to give RH a cent beyond that initial purchase and upgrades. Boo Hoo. As I recall the utter contempt that Red Hat has traditionally had for working with the rest of the community -- as a matter of corporate culture, acting as the 600 pound gorilla of the Linux world -- I shed no tears as they confront Linux competitors bigger and more aggressive than they are. (I attended the meeting at which the LSB was formed. Out of more than 40 people in the room, only Red Hat voted against its creation.) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 14:59:18 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:59:18 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <454213B4.8080702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <454213B4.8080702@telly.org> Message-ID: <002d01c6f9d8$82a0db70$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> I humbly, but wholeheartedly disagree. How does going for RedHat's "jugular" help the FLOSS community? They are the #1 distro in corporate environments. They are the ones who spearheaded Linux's adoption in the corporate space. IF Oracle buys RedHat, what is that going to do for companies who bought it to run mysql or some other Oracle competition? Are they gonna kill it like PeopleSoft? Or do they just want to damage it enough to push their own stack... http://www.redhat.com/promo/unfakeable/ At any rate, I respect your opinion; and I respect the group, I won't argue the point anymore. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:30:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:30:48 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026185302.576e7433-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026214811.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026185302.576e7433@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061027153048.GR30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 06:53:02PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 > Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > I won't deal with java stuff. > > Heh, missed that. Sometimes, from talking to people, I get this impression the > only people who really like Java are Java programmers... :DD My wife is currently learning java in one of her courses. Amazingly it took a while to figure this out: E:\> java hello.java some error message making no sense about can't find some string thingy. Investigate very simple program again. Try many things and eventualyl go. Hmm, should it be compiled first? E:\> javac hello.java can't find that. Go fix stupid path that is never right on windows it seems. There is a reason all programs go in one place, with their data files off somewhere else. Stupid windows design. And DJB thinks this layout is a good idea? Add to path. E:\> javac hello.java E:\> java hello.class Same error as when going hava hello.java Hmm, how odd. Many google searches later. Oh, java is stupid! E:\> java hello Hello World! E:\> Why the heck is it an error to specify the full filename? And why do you have to define a class in order to write hello world or anything else for that matter? What a stupid language. Then there are the interesting errors when you try to use a java library with a version of java older than it was compiled with. Maybe they should have made it easy to tell what version of java is requried for a certain java file, but I haven't found one yet. And how many versions of java does it take before they decide the language works? Of course lately it seems C++ is on a quest to be like java and now perfectly valid c++ programs are considered invalid by modern c++ compilers unless you explicitly ask them to support old syntax. Sometimes I actually start to think perl isn't so bad. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:24:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:24:03 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061026184925.3e580a5b-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061026025206.1dd60c81@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026140245.GN30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026124759.35078fb9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061026214811.GP30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061026184925.3e580a5b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061027152403.GQ30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 06:49:25PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 > Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > Too bad, I prefer text based programs in general. > > Yeah, esp when you can leave it running in a screen session, even better, over > SSH. Add in a transparent term, and all my Win-using friends think I'm some > kind of l33t h4x0r, or whatever. I must admit, I don't do a whole lot to > discourage that egregious misconception ;) > > I really hate to use a GUI, esp Java, when a few simple commands will do, but > Azureus is one of the exceptions I'll make. Well so far ktorrent with encryption is actually doing quite a bit better than bittornado, although it's file handling and disk space handling methods are a lot worse than bittornado (which is amazingly effecient). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:53:38 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:53:38 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <4542195C.3000204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <4542195C.3000204@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > Almost everyone who would use open source mainly because of its social > conscience is already doing so. Hmmm. I don't know about that. In my experience, few people are aware of the social and ethical issues and so it's not part of their decision. As awareness spreads, this will be a factor for more people. > In corporate IT, credibility is measure by the ability of a vendor to > deliver on its promises. Evan, I agree with a lot of what you say, but not this. Corporate purchasing decisions have a lot more to do with corporate politics, personalities, schmoozing, and the (perceived) ability to sue someone. Vendors of all stripes continually fail to deliver on promises yet little changes as a result. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:45:33 2006 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint Message-ID: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I hate to say this, but it sounds like all these problems would have been solved by consulting some documentation. As an aside, why is it stupid to define a class (template for an object) in an OO language? If that's the case, then defining a procedure in a procedural language is equally stupid. As an aside, Java as a language is actually very stable. All the various revisions have to do more with the additional packages evolving, moreso than the language itself. That in itself is a whole other issue, SUN seems inept at keeping the language and libraries separate from one another. Cheers, -Matthew ----- Original Message ---- From: Lennart Sorensen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:30:48 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 06:53:02PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:48:11 -0400 > Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > I won't deal with java stuff. > > Heh, missed that. Sometimes, from talking to people, I get this impression the > only people who really like Java are Java programmers... :DD My wife is currently learning java in one of her courses. Amazingly it took a while to figure this out: E:\> java hello.java some error message making no sense about can't find some string thingy. Investigate very simple program again. Try many things and eventualyl go. Hmm, should it be compiled first? E:\> javac hello.java can't find that. Go fix stupid path that is never right on windows it seems. There is a reason all programs go in one place, with their data files off somewhere else. Stupid windows design. And DJB thinks this layout is a good idea? Add to path. E:\> javac hello.java E:\> java hello.class Same error as when going hava hello.java Hmm, how odd. Many google searches later. Oh, java is stupid! E:\> java hello Hello World! E:\> Why the heck is it an error to specify the full filename? And why do you have to define a class in order to write hello world or anything else for that matter? What a stupid language. Then there are the interesting errors when you try to use a java library with a version of java older than it was compiled with. Maybe they should have made it easy to tell what version of java is requried for a certain java file, but I haven't found one yet. And how many versions of java does it take before they decide the language works? Of course lately it seems C++ is on a quest to be like java and now perfectly valid c++ programs are considered invalid by modern c++ compilers unless you explicitly ask them to support old syntax. Sometimes I actually start to think perl isn't so bad. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 16:11:21 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:11:21 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <4542195C.3000204@telly.org> Message-ID: <45422FA9.6050102@telly.org> Tim Writer wrote: >> In corporate IT, credibility is measure by the ability of a vendor to deliver on its promises. >> > > Evan, I agree with a lot of what you say, but not this. Corporate purchasing decisions have a lot more to do with corporate politics, personalities, schmoozing, and the (perceived) ability to sue someone. Vendors of all stripes continually fail to deliver on promises yet little changes as a result. > I don't think we're in disagreement here. In response to an earlier comment about the damage to Oracle's reputation, I said that IT buyers measure reputation differently than the developer community. You say that it doesn't matter anyway; reputation isn't an overriding factor in purchase decisions. The two assertions are not contradictory; in fact I agree completely with your point as well. :-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:57:39 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:57:39 +0000 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Would anyone be offering TV Cards for sale? How much of a markup are you prepared to contemplate? :-) If you're not keen on paying a fair bit over market, then nobody's likely to be willing to pay to put in inventory on the chance that somebody *might* be interested... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 15:59:39 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:59:39 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <000501c6f9c3$2f8bae20$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <4542195C.3000204@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061027115939.4a6e6743@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On 27 Oct 2006 11:53:38 -0400 Tim Writer got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Vendors of all stripes continually fail to deliver on promises yet > little changes as a result. ...I'm trying to think of an example...I know the name, it's right on the tip of my tongue... ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 16:10:52 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:10:52 +0000 Subject: SELF Project In-Reply-To: <200610260942.16016.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200610260942.16016.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 10/26/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > Short presentation explaining what is this project, what are its stakeholders > and their roadmap. > > ftp://ftp.cordis.europa.eu/pub/ist/docs/directorate_d/st-ds/sept-25-2006-self_en.pdf Doesn't the Wikipedia have a better explanation of Self? "Self is an object-oriented programming language based on the concept of prototypes." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_programming_language http://gliebe.de/self/index.html http://www.self-support.com/ It is noted as having inspired the object systems in NewtonScript (now a dead language) and JavaScript (decidedly NOT dead...) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 16:07:47 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:07:47 -0400 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a cheap way of acquiring a QAMwhatever compatible card? I already have an ordinary TV tuner (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008750&cid=CC.344), but I'm ever so slightly curious about getting HDTV input, mostly from a geek perspective, since I basically don't watch TV. Regardless, if anybody here has some experience shopping around for digital tuner cards, it would be great for them to share it. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 16:22:11 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:22:11 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <002d01c6f9d8$82a0db70$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002d01c6f9d8$82a0db70$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <45423233.3020903@telly.org> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > IF Oracle buys RedHat, Read the announcements. Oracle has no plans (at this time) to do so; IMO it never did (outside of a few mumbled trial balloons). I would even argue that Oracle has little to benefit from such a purchase, and that its current strategy is smarter. > http://www.redhat.com/promo/unfakeable/ > I see FUD in that Q&A. Red Hat is accusing Oracle of wanting to fork Red Hat's software. If that happens it's not Red Hat's software anymore, it's effectively a separate distribution, and this is totally contrary to what Oracle is claiming to do. Given that Red Hat's bread-and-butter business is the prime target of Oracle's move -- and that now Red Hat and Oracle will likely be hardcore competition to each other -- I would hardly expect RH analysis of the move to be unbiased. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 16:47:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV Install Homework #1 Message-ID: <20061027164741.69178.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ok, we have a few people who have passed word on to me that they plan to be at the KnoppMyth install. So, I will be putting together a bit of homework to be done in advance for those planning to attend. The idea being to do a few things in advance so that once the install starts this will hopefully run a bit smoother. First bit will be getting an account with zap2it.com: labs.zap2it.com These are the folks that provide the free TV listings that you can pop up on screen (catch being you must log-in every 3 months to fill out a survey...). Any event, set-up an account with the above folks. During the account set-up you will be asked for a certificate code which for MythTV is: ZIYN-DQZO-SBUT When selecting a password for your zap2it.com account make sure it is a "disposable" password (i.e.: one you do NOT care if others see at the event), as at one point during the set-up your password will be visible in plain text on screen (sigh, grumble, this is a MythTV issue, not a KnoppMyth issue...). Other stuff, I will be looking at what other goodies that can be brought along for the install. For example, KnoppMyth comes with XMAME, which allow for the running of old coin operated video software under emulation. All those old games are under copyright, but the copyright holders for Gridlee and Robbie Roto have given their ok for non-commercial copying of those programs. KnoppMyth doesn't come with any of the old games. So, I will bring Gridlee, Robbie Roto and what ever other non-included legally copyable goodies that I can come up with. Any suggestions beyond Gridlee and Robbie Roto? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 17:12:53 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:12:53 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: <45423233.3020903-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <002d01c6f9d8$82a0db70$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <45423233.3020903@telly.org> Message-ID: On 27-Oct-06, at 12:22 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> IF Oracle buys RedHat, > Read the announcements. Oracle has no plans (at this time) to do > so; IMO > it never did (outside of a few mumbled trial balloons). I would even > argue that Oracle has little to benefit from such a purchase, and that > its current strategy is smarter. > >> http://www.redhat.com/promo/unfakeable/ >> > I see FUD in that Q&A. Red Hat is accusing Oracle of wanting to > fork Red > Hat's software. If that happens it's not Red Hat's software anymore, > it's effectively a separate distribution, and this is totally contrary > to what Oracle is claiming to do. > > Given that Red Hat's bread-and-butter business is the prime target of > Oracle's move -- and that now Red Hat and Oracle will likely be > hardcore > competition to each other -- I would hardly expect RH analysis of the > move to be unbiased. This is an interesting problem. One which is modeled in biology. Oracle is essentially a virus living off another organism redhat. If it manages to kill the host organism then how does it survive ? Dave > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 17:35:48 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:35:48 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01c6f9d8$82a0db70$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <45423233.3020903@telly.org> Message-ID: On 10/27/06, Dave Cramer wrote: > This is an interesting problem. One which is modeled in biology. > Oracle is essentially a virus living off another organism redhat. If > it manages to kill the host organism then how does it survive ? If it were to be that bad, obviously somebody would assimilate the host material, in the form of a buyout. On 10/27/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > In any case, even those working with Oracle's support still need to buy > Red Hat's core product unless I missed the message that Oracle is > supporting Fedora as well. It's just that they don't need to give RH a > cent beyond that initial purchase and upgrades. Boo Hoo. Not necessarily, they can do what CentOS does, rebuild from RHEL sources. Being able to claim that they haven't forked Red Hat is apparently important to Oracle's credibility, and even though Red Hat coerced CentOS into removing any references to Red Hat from their site, they can't really do that to Oracle, since Oracle would be able to afford a legal defence. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 17:45:51 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:45:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027154533.52707.qmail-uCDoDXa0YfSB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 08:45:33AM -0700, Matthew Godycki wrote: > I hate to say this, but it sounds like all these problems would have been solved > by consulting some documentation. As an aside, why is it stupid to define a > class (template for an object) in an OO language? If that's the case, then defining > a procedure in a procedural language is equally stupid. > > As an aside, Java as a language is actually very stable. All the various revisions > have to do more with the additional packages evolving, moreso than the language > itself. That in itself is a whole other issue, SUN seems inept at keeping the > language and libraries separate from one another. Perhaps because I know OO isn't the catch all solution to everything, I fail to see the point in having a language that can't do anything without using objects/classes for it. Originally I mainly hated the virtual machine concept, but eventually native compilers came about. Virtual machines are too inefficient and mainly make sense when you don't know what the archtecture is going to be. Most programs you know are going to run on a specific architecture, so you should simply compile it for that and not some stupid, bloated, inefficient virtual machine. You can work with objective C without using objects. It has a rather nice object system, but you don't have to use it. You can work in C++ without using objects. It has an OK object system byt you don't have to use it. You can work with OCAML without using objects, you basically use just CAML, which is a very nice version of ML and an awsome procedural language, but again you don't have to use objects. Perl has a lousy object system, but you don't have to use it to do useful stuff. Modula3 has a rather nice object system, but you can do lots of nice code without using them. Java has an OK object system (it originally borrowed a lot from c++, including some things they should have. Java2 seems to have fixed a lot of those problems with the new interfaces system). You can't do anything in java without objects. And yes SUN does a lot of stupid stuff. They can't seem to figure out versions numbers at all. I thought after the Solaris mess they had learned, but no they did the same thing with java. So version 1.4 is java2 and 1.5 if java5 or is it 2.0 is java5 while 1.4 was java2? What? Seems a lot like Sunos 4 was solaris 1 and Sunos 5.x was solaris 2.x but then solaris 2.7 was solaris 7 or sunos 5.7. Someone at SUN is obviously insane. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 18:09:28 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:09:28 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027174551.GS30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: So let me get this straight... you rate OO languages based on your ability to write procedural code in them? On 10/27/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 08:45:33AM -0700, Matthew Godycki wrote: > > I hate to say this, but it sounds like all these problems would have > been solved > > by consulting some documentation. As an aside, why is it stupid to > define a > > class (template for an object) in an OO language? If that's the case, > then defining > > a procedure in a procedural language is equally stupid. > > > > As an aside, Java as a language is actually very stable. All the > various revisions > > have to do more with the additional packages evolving, moreso than the > language > > itself. That in itself is a whole other issue, SUN seems inept at > keeping the > > language and libraries separate from one another. > > Perhaps because I know OO isn't the catch all solution to everything, I > fail to see the point in having a language that can't do anything > without using objects/classes for it. Originally I mainly hated the > virtual machine concept, but eventually native compilers came about. > Virtual machines are too inefficient and mainly make sense when you > don't know what the archtecture is going to be. Most programs you know > are going to run on a specific architecture, so you should simply > compile it for that and not some stupid, bloated, inefficient virtual > machine. > > You can work with objective C without using objects. It has a rather > nice object system, but you don't have to use it. You can work in C++ > without using objects. It has an OK object system byt you don't have to > use it. You can work with OCAML without using objects, you basically > use just CAML, which is a very nice version of ML and an awsome > procedural language, but again you don't have to use objects. Perl has > a lousy object system, but you don't have to use it to do useful stuff. > Modula3 has a rather nice object system, but you can do lots of nice > code without using them. > > Java has an OK object system (it originally borrowed a lot from c++, > including some things they should have. Java2 seems to have fixed a lot > of those problems with the new interfaces system). You can't do > anything in java without objects. > > And yes SUN does a lot of stupid stuff. They can't seem to figure out > versions numbers at all. I thought after the Solaris mess they had > learned, but no they did the same thing with java. So version 1.4 is > java2 and 1.5 if java5 or is it 2.0 is java5 while 1.4 was java2? What? > Seems a lot like Sunos 4 was solaris 1 and Sunos 5.x was solaris 2.x but > then solaris 2.7 was solaris 7 or sunos 5.7. Someone at SUN is > obviously insane. :) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 18:14:34 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:14:34 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: <200610262054.01624.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <45414416.6080709@yahoo.ca> <200610262054.01624.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Don't shoot yourself in the foot - if that prototype.js thing provides an abstraction layer for compatibility, you'll save yourself a lot of trouble using it instead of writing your own. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 18:43:42 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:43:42 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 02:09:28PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > So let me get this straight... you rate OO languages based on your ability > to write procedural code in them? No I just think knowing one language well is useful, so the language better fit more than one purpose. Given a lot of things are not done well in OO, java is not a good tool for many things. It is too focused on the current fad in programming languages. :) Or perhaps java is the current fad in programming languages. Programmers are expensive, just make the customer throw more resources at it to make up for us using this inefficient high level technology that does everything for us just inefficiently. And OO is still a bad fit for a lot of problems. Java can't be used unless you make it OO. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 20:01:16 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:01:16 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027184342.GT30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > And OO is still a bad fit for a lot of problems. Yes, but you need to have a good enough architect/lead to know that, and he/she has to be "strong" enough to overcome meddling management that only know enough to follow the trade rags. > Java can't be used unless you make it OO. Not quite. You can think and write procedurally despite the language. But, Java does have the unfortunate requirement that every class has to be defined in it's own .java file. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 20:15:13 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:15:13 -0400 Subject: from HTML button to shell command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, When people upload a Smalltalk image to my server, they are going to need to turn it on. I do this using the shell, but I cannot give my customers access to my shell. So, I'm looking for a CGI way for people to start their image. So far I have it that a customer goes to a password protected page. They see a radio button and a submit button. They click both. This triggers a Perl script in my operating system. In the script is the system function. Inside the system function (because the command I need to run on the shell must be executed by the root user) is the sudo command. After the sudo command is the actual command I use on the shell 'squeak -headless /home/ccunning/Seaside/Seaside2.6.image&' So far I have success running the system command to output the date to my browser. I've only hit upon using sudo, so I'll explore that today. I need to find a flag for it that will execute the command in one step, without making it a two step process by asking for the user's password. So, that's what I need: a way for people to turn their image on without giving them shell access. If anything screams out at you about my attempt to solve this problem, please let me know. I suppose there is a standard way to get people to push a button on a website and have a command execute on the shell, but I don't know it. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 20:19:43 2006 From: tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tim Goodaire) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:19:43 -0400 Subject: Postfix, Rogers, and SMTP AUTH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76d625fd0610271319h26365cb8lfc830b5e1b4dfc93@mail.gmail.com> You're in luck. I have this setup at home. Here is how you set up the authentication part: First of all, you need a version of postgres with sasl support compiled in. Then you need to edit main.cf: smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd smtp_sasl_security_options = Then, create /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd: smtp.broadband.rogers.com username:password postmap sasl_passwd On 10/26/06, Paul Mora wrote: > > Hello! > > I am in need of a Postfix guru's help. I'd like to know how to get > Postfix to send all outbound mail from addresses of the form > "user-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org" Rogers' SMTP server, and be able to log in via SMTP > AUTH. Has anyone out there configured something like that? Rogers > blocks outbound SMTP from anywhere except their mail server, so I need > to forward my mail there. > > I've perused the Postfix documentation lightly, but nothing has really > popped out at me. I'm sure there's a directive or map file somewhere, > but I figure someone on this list has likely already done this. > > Thanks, > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 20:37:54 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: from HTML button to shell command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Chris Cunnington wrote: > Hi All, > > When people upload a Smalltalk image to my server, they > are going to need to turn it on. I do this using the shell, but I > cannot give my customers access to my shell. So, I'm looking for a CGI > way for people to start their image. > > So far I have it that a customer goes to a password protected page. > They see a radio button and a submit button. They click both. This > triggers a Perl script in my operating system. In the script is the > system function. Inside the system function (because the command I > need to run on the shell must be executed by the root user) is the > sudo command. After the sudo command is the actual command I use on > the shell 'squeak -headless /home/ccunning/Seaside/Seaside2.6.image&' > > So far I have success running the system command to output the date to my > browser. I've only hit upon using sudo, so I'll explore that today. I need > to find a flag for it that will execute the command in one > step, without making it a two step process by asking for the user's > password. > > So, that's what I need: a way for people to turn their image on > without giving them shell access. If anything screams out at you about > my attempt to solve this problem, please let me know. I suppose there is a > standard way to get people to push a button on a website and have a command > execute on the shell, but I don't know it. See . -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 21:57:36 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:57:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027174551.GS30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Virtual machines are too inefficient and mainly make sense when you > don't know what the archtecture is going to be. Don't agree. Check out the literature around the recently open-sourced StrongtalkVM. With dynamic type-inference, calls are faster than C++ implementations that use vtables. Once the VM figures out what is being called, from where, it's a goto statement; whereas the statically compiled C++ still has to go through it's vtable. There is proof that VMs can be very efficient; just because there are lots of slow VMs doesn't mean the VM approach is inefficient. > Most programs you know > are going to run on a specific architecture, so you should simply > compile it for that and not some stupid, bloated, inefficient virtual > machine. See the "id" work at http://piumarta.com/pepsi/. IIUC, this work was just presented at OOSPLA'06, and the technology is a minimal machine to build virtual machines. In addition to a Squeak virtual machine, he's done a Javascript implementation in 400 lines. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 27 22:54:57 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:54:57 -0400 Subject: XMLHttpRequest POST request on Gecko In-Reply-To: References: <20061020021504.GA20422@waltdnes.org> <200610262054.01624.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610271854.57971.softquake@gmail.com> On Friday 27 October 2006 14:14, Simon wrote: > Don't shoot yourself in the foot - if that prototype.js thing provides > an abstraction layer for compatibility, you'll save yourself a lot of > trouble using it instead of writing your own. Dont't take me wrong. Many disagreements are due to the fact that people are at various levels of experience and can not fully comprehend the code, for instance. I am glad that I could have a look to prototype.js but thats not what I wanted at the moment. I am for now happy that I know well enough how to make a proper "XMLHttpRequest POST request" on several main browsers, that i solved my problem, and the rest is not a pain to me - I can do the rest of what I need myself. zb.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 01:31:27 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed > wrote: > > Would anyone be offering TV Cards for sale? > > How much of a markup are you prepared to > contemplate? :-) > > If you're not keen on paying a fair bit over market, > then nobody's > likely to be willing to pay to put in inventory on > the chance that > somebody *might* be interested... Well, I have a used TV tuner card I would be willing to sell for somewhat less than I paid for it. Small issue with the card in question, there are problems with support of this card under Linux, so you would need to use it with one of those other OSs.... If there is any interest I would be happy to bring that along with me to the KnoppMyth install... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 02:24:57 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:24:57 -0400 Subject: from HTML button to shell command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > See . Hi Chris, That script certainly is a model of economy. I didn't know there was another book out there besides Wicked Cool Shell Scripts that also addressed shell script CGI. I like the demo page, as well. Seeing your script has lead me to return to shell scripts. I've been exploring Perl and shell scripts. The key here, I think, is sudo. If I configure sudoers properly, then the script that gets executed from HTML page button should look like this: !#/bin/sh sudo squeak -headless /home/ccunning/Seaside/Seaside2.6.image& That should be all it takes. If I abandon the Perl way, then I can do without the system() function. Why make it more complicated? I was thinking I had to find a way to enter the password, but if I configure sudoers properly, then I think I can execute just the script, as I've written it. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 05:35:42 2006 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:35:42 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027184342.GT30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4542EC2E.1080605@almatau.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 02:09:28PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > >> So let me get this straight... you rate OO languages based on your ability >> to write procedural code in them? >> > > No I just think knowing one language well is useful, so the language > better fit more than one purpose. Given a lot of things are not done > well in OO, java is not a good tool for many things. It is too focused > on the current fad in programming languages. :) Or perhaps java is the > current fad in programming languages. Programmers are expensive, just > make the customer throw more resources at it to make up for us using > this inefficient high level technology that does everything for us just > inefficiently. And OO is still a bad fit for a lot of problems. Java > can't be used unless you make it OO. > It can. Use static methods and forget about objects, think of methods as of procedures. Does compiling "hello world" give enough experience to consider Java to be so bad? :-) Regards, Ilya. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 06:19:25 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:19:25 -0400 Subject: Redhat taking a beating - stock opportunity here? In-Reply-To: References: <1161939235.11708.331.camel@stan64.site> <4542195C.3000204@telly.org> Message-ID: <200610280219.26037.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 27 October 2006 11:53, Tim Writer wrote: > > In corporate IT, credibility is measure by the ability of a vendor to > > deliver on its promises. > > Evan, I agree with a lot of what you say, but not this. Corporate > purchasing decisions have a lot more to do with corporate politics, > personalities, schmoozing, and the (perceived) ability to sue > someone. Vendors of all stripes continually fail to deliver on promises yet > little changes as a result. Tim, I agree with a lot of what you say, including this ;-) Another aspect of the decision process is where will the shit stick after it hits the fan. For some interesting viewpoints in this regard see http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/10/20/opensource-makes-you-responsible/ - a few quotes: Open source requires you, as a manager of IT, or as a staffer, or as the CIO, to be willing to commit to being responsible for fixing a problem, and therefore, be responsible for the problem itself. The support contract is not about fixing the problem. The support contract is about allowing you to shift responsibility for the problem. This guy was recently interviewed in LJ, definitely one of the more interesting blogs I've run into. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 09:48:35 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 05:48:35 -0400 Subject: Fonts used in google-earth Message-ID: <45432773.6020403@qef.com> Does anyone have any idea how to specify the fonts used within google-earth? The point size is far too small for my eyes. -- david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 17:23:28 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:23:28 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027184342.GT30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Any programmer that only knows one language well isn't worth the time of day. A decent programmer is going to be able to look at the problem, determine if OO is a good fit or not, and use any of a number of languages they know well, both OO and not, to solve the problem. People that rail against Java - or any language - as not being a good fit for everything under the sun or for being the latest 'fad' in computers (despite being 15 years old) seem to have missed something important. I wouldn't ask a contractor to build me a house with only a hammer, so there's no reason why programmers should feel compelled to use only a single tool. I'm not being a Java apologist here, I'm just glad that I understand both the OO and the procedural paradigms, and that I know both C and Java (in addition to others) equally well. I think that these skills and the ability to know when to apply which ones will make me much more valuable to any potential employers than a programmer hellbent on sticking to the one language he/she knows. On 10/27/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 02:09:28PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > So let me get this straight... you rate OO languages based on your > ability > > to write procedural code in them? > > No I just think knowing one language well is useful, so the language > better fit more than one purpose. Given a lot of things are not done > well in OO, java is not a good tool for many things. It is too focused > on the current fad in programming languages. :) Or perhaps java is the > current fad in programming languages. Programmers are expensive, just > make the customer throw more resources at it to make up for us using > this inefficient high level technology that does everything for us just > inefficiently. And OO is still a bad fit for a lot of problems. Java > can't be used unless you make it OO. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 23:16:37 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:16:37 -0400 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? Message-ID: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> Much weeping and gnashing of teeth on the Gentoo forums over the dropping of xmms from portage. It's not Gentoo's fault. xmms has been abandoned by the upstream maintainer. I use mpg321 to play music files on my harddrive. I don't need no steenkin gui for that. mc is a great file-browser that can run in a true text console or an xterm. I have it set up to launch mpg321 when I press on an mp3 file. I have one other need for an audioplayer. I'm a paying subscriber of Live365, and I need a simple audio player to launch and play audio streams direct off a .pls file. Windows-Media-Player-wannabees like amarok need not apply. I've tried "audacious". audacious falls flat on its face in this task. The current version (1.1.2-r1) does *NOT* support mp3, or streaming mp3. It requires a plugin package. The plugin package is keyword masked ~x86. After unmasking the plugin package, I find that it requires a higher version of audacious, which is also keyword masked ~x86. Etc, etc., etc. Version 1.1.0 still supports mp3 directly, so I've package-masked ">media-sound/audacious-1.1.0". But wait... there's more... on at least one Live365 station, audacious 1.1.0 plays at half speed, and the singer's voice is way down low. xmms handles that station fine. I tried RealPlayer. Unlike xmms and audacious, it can't keep up with a 96 kbps audio stream, stuttering and buffering all the time. This is on an AMDK8 3000+ with 2 gigs of RAM, running Blackbox, not some underpowered machine running a resource-hogging "desktop environment". -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 28 23:20:17 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:20:17 -0400 Subject: from HTML button to shell command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're on the right track, you have to use NOPASS in sudoers for the user in question -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 00:37:37 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:37:37 -0400 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <20061028231637.GA25220-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Walter Dnes wrote: > Much weeping and gnashing of teeth on the Gentoo forums over the > dropping of xmms from portage. It's not Gentoo's fault. xmms has been > abandoned by the upstream maintainer. > > I use mpg321 to play music files on my harddrive. I don't need no > steenkin gui for that. mc is a great file-browser that can run in a > true text console or an xterm. I have it set up to launch mpg321 when I > press on an mp3 file. > > I have one other need for an audioplayer. I'm a paying subscriber of > Live365, and I need a simple audio player to launch and play audio > streams direct off a .pls file. Windows-Media-Player-wannabees like > amarok need not apply. I've tried "audacious". audacious falls flat on > its face in this task. The current version (1.1.2-r1) does *NOT* > support mp3, or streaming mp3. It requires a plugin package. The > plugin package is keyword masked ~x86. After unmasking the plugin > package, I find that it requires a higher version of audacious, which is > also keyword masked ~x86. Etc, etc., etc. Version 1.1.0 still supports > mp3 directly, so I've package-masked ">media-sound/audacious-1.1.0". > But wait... there's more... on at least one Live365 station, audacious > 1.1.0 plays at half speed, and the singer's voice is way down low. xmms > handles that station fine. > > I tried RealPlayer. Unlike xmms and audacious, it can't keep up with > a 96 kbps audio stream, stuttering and buffering all the time. This is > on an AMDK8 3000+ with 2 gigs of RAM, running Blackbox, not some > underpowered machine running a resource-hogging "desktop environment". What's wrong with BMPx instead of audacious or bmp? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 02:47:55 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:47:55 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061028224755.3df1e868@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:23:28 -0400 Michael MacLeod got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I'm not being a Java apologist here, I'm just glad that I understand both > the OO and the procedural paradigms, and that I know both C and Java (in > addition to others) equally well. I think that these skills and the ability > to know when to apply which ones will make me much more valuable to any > potential employers than a programmer hellbent on sticking to the one > language he/she knows. That's a whole other argu...er, discussion, though. I'm no programmer, hell, I don't understand most of what you guys are talking about :DD But you've got two different debates goin' on here: 1. Java is just annoying. It's bloated, it's really unnecessary (same tasks accomplished with less overhead), and, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not easily used as a tool for creating malware? (note I said 'easily', as in 'script kiddie' easy) Agree, disagree, whatever. 2. What you said. Len's arguing de jure (as was I, though somewhat less...eloquently?), you're arguing de facto. Dig? ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ La Brea Tar Pits As seen on the tar channel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 03:44:21 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 23:44:21 -0400 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <20061028231637.GA25220-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655@mail.gmail.com> On 10/28/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > I use mpg321 to play music files on my harddrive. I don't need no > steenkin gui for that. mc is a great file-browser that can run in a > true text console or an xterm. I have it set up to launch mpg321 when I > press on an mp3 file. I've been a huge fan of cplay for a couple years - I use it to queue and play mp3 files. It uses mpg321 behind a Python script and text user interface - it handles oggs and other formats as well. I was pleased to find that they've recently added the ability to handle mp3 streams (I don't know what the player is), although it won't accept .pls files - you have to fetch the pls with something like curl and then give it the actual address and port. This could be done with a simple script. Sorry, no URL - it may even currently be homeless, although development seems to continue. I usually fetch .deb files from a repository. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 04:38:19 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:38:19 -0400 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061028224755.3df1e868-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061028224755.3df1e868@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 10/28/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:23:28 -0400 > Michael MacLeod got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > I'm not being a Java apologist here, I'm just glad that I understand both > > the OO and the procedural paradigms, and that I know both C and Java (in > > addition to others) equally well. I think that these skills and the ability > > to know when to apply which ones will make me much more valuable to any > > potential employers than a programmer hellbent on sticking to the one > > language he/she knows. > > That's a whole other argu...er, discussion, though. > > But you've got two different debates goin' on here: > > 1. Java is just annoying. It's bloated, it's really unnecessary (same tasks > accomplished with less overhead), and, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not > easily used as a tool for creating malware? (note I said 'easily', as in > 'script kiddie' easy) > > Agree, disagree, whatever. It's bloated and it's not... You need to build a fair bit of infrastructure, whether that be: a) J2EE-like stuff b) Other libraries you're dependent on c) Some bunch of homegrown dependancies in order to get Java to a point of usefulness. Almost certainly, by the time you get to 'a point of usefulness,' you're invoking Greenspun's Tenth Rule. That is, Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp... As far as "script kiddie misuse" is concerned, I'm not sure Java installations are standardized enough for that to work out meaningfully. - There is a designed-in security model which is of somewhat-greater-than-zero value; - Nonstandardization of "where Java goes" (our installs at work are definitely not in any 'official standard' location) means it's liable to be harder to hijack than, say, C... - Unlike C/C++, Java has somewhat stronger typing and tries rather hard to avoid pointer referencing errors, which should make Java apps somewhat harder to hijack via (say) buffer overruns. The really irritating thing that has happened over the last 10-15 years is the growth of unthinking espousal of "abject object orientation." It seems to me like the computer science equivalent to Lysenkoism. Only in some of the more unreadable areas is a "theory of objects" emerging (such as Pierce's work on type theory). OO is, to my mind, merely another programming technique to be applied when useful, NOT fitting of being the end-all of how systems ought to be "shaped." To my mind, the common focus on "what are the object classes?" or "show me the UML!" are mistaken replacements for analysis of the problem that is to be solved. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 12:09:33 2006 From: brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org (Angelina Carlton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:09:33 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Giles Orr's message of "Sat\, 28 Oct 2006 23\:44\:21 -0400") References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87ejsrqq6a.fsf@magma.ca> "Giles Orr" writes: > Sorry, no URL - it may even currently be homeless, although > development seems to continue. I usually fetch .deb files from a > repository. I also used to use cplay, I think this is the url you meant? http://mask.tf.hut.fi/~flu/hacks/cplay/ -- -----Angelina Carlton----- orchid on irc.freenode.net brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org web:bzgirl.bakadigital.com -------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 14:51:03 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:51:03 -0400 Subject: What is it with Workshops ? Message-ID: Yesterday, Matvey Kippershtein came in to linuxcaffe to host his "Wellness workshop for IT workers. The workshop had been posted on our site, the notice went out to several lugs and some light postering was done. A handful of people expressed active interest in attending, the general reaction was positive; good idea, but NOBODY showed up ! This is the second time we have had a total no-show for a workshop. The first one was a linux audio workshop, with Sam and Dave. My question to you, good Toronto Linux Enthusiasts is; why ? wrong topics? wrong venue? wrong timeslot ? wrong promo ? I'm sure that the fourth (promo) could be vastly improved, but in the case of the wellness workshop, I was confident the the folks we DID reach were local and well targeted. Does anybody want to see events where knowledge is shared ? Should we keep trying ? Is there a combination that would be more effective ? Do you suppose anyone will attend the proposed MythTV workshop, next week ? Any thoughts ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 15:11:58 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:11:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: What is it with Workshops ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50429.207.188.66.236.1162134718.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> That sort of thing is very discouraging. Unfortunately, any event in Toronto has huge competition for attention. I'd suggest (a) email reminders on the Day Before and possibly the Day Of. Personally, I find such reminders often are the key to my attending some event. (b) some sort of sign-up list, which includes an email address and phone number. That way, if people do sign up, they have really made a committment to attend. That can be part of the signup process: signatories have to indicate that they are serious about attending. Notice that restaurents often get a phone number when taking a reservation. I don't know what they do with this (phone you at 2AM if you're a no-show at the restaurent?), but it does act as a gentle warning that they could get back to you to complain if you don't follow through. The number of sign-ups is also an indication of how much real interest there is in the event. P. > Yesterday, Matvey Kippershtein came in to linuxcaffe to host his > "Wellness workshop for IT workers. The workshop had been posted on our > site, the notice went out to several lugs and some light postering was > done. A handful of people expressed active interest in attending, the > general reaction was positive; good idea, but NOBODY showed up ! > This is the second time we have had a total no-show for a workshop. > The first one was a linux audio workshop, with Sam and Dave. > > My question to you, good Toronto Linux Enthusiasts is; why ? > > wrong topics? > wrong venue? > wrong timeslot ? > wrong promo ? > > I'm sure that the fourth (promo) could be vastly improved, but in the > case of the wellness workshop, I was confident the the folks we DID > reach were local and well targeted. > > Does anybody want to see events where knowledge is shared ? > Should we keep trying ? > Is there a combination that would be more effective ? > Do you suppose anyone will attend the proposed MythTV workshop, next week > ? > Any thoughts ? > > djp > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner-k8+l4Qd5hq73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 15:52:43 2006 From: dgardiner-k8+l4Qd5hq73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Daniel Gardiner) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:52:43 -0500 Subject: What is it with Workshops ? In-Reply-To: <50429.207.188.66.236.1162134718.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50429.207.188.66.236.1162134718.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4544CE4B.3070002@inofas.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree with the need for a sign-up list. For some expressing interest is not the same as a commitment, and can change once the details become available. That is to say, someone could express their interest and then find out that they can't make it to an event. Daniel phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > That sort of thing is very discouraging. Unfortunately, any event > in Toronto has huge competition for attention. > > I'd suggest > > (a) email reminders on the Day Before and possibly the Day Of. > Personally, I find such reminders often are the key to my attending > some event. > > (b) some sort of sign-up list, which includes an email address and > phone number. That way, if people do sign up, they have really made > a committment to attend. That can be part of the signup process: > signatories have to indicate that they are serious about attending. > Notice that restaurents often get a phone number when taking a > reservation. I don't know what they do with this (phone you at 2AM > if you're a no-show at the restaurent?), but it does act as a > gentle warning that they could get back to you to complain if you > don't follow through. > > The number of sign-ups is also an indication of how much real > interest there is in the event. > > P. > >> Yesterday, Matvey Kippershtein came in to linuxcaffe to host his >> "Wellness workshop for IT workers. The workshop had been posted >> on our site, the notice went out to several lugs and some light >> postering was done. A handful of people expressed active interest >> in attending, the general reaction was positive; good idea, but >> NOBODY showed up ! This is the second time we have had a total >> no-show for a workshop. The first one was a linux audio workshop, >> with Sam and Dave. >> >> My question to you, good Toronto Linux Enthusiasts is; why ? >> >> wrong topics? wrong venue? wrong timeslot ? wrong promo ? >> >> I'm sure that the fourth (promo) could be vastly improved, but in >> the case of the wellness workshop, I was confident the the folks >> we DID reach were local and well targeted. >> >> Does anybody want to see events where knowledge is shared ? >> Should we keep trying ? Is there a combination that would be more >> effective ? Do you suppose anyone will attend the proposed MythTV >> workshop, next week ? Any thoughts ? >> >> djp >> >> -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet >> 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The >> Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG >> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How >> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFRM5JMkKsJUJU3poRAu+GAJ9maXlitTCKH8kmuKeW4bmRYXwNhQCfalhk vPvI/F/5w4SqDDC44/tMhlI= =vqhI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 16:08:56 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:08:56 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe event; MythTV workshop Message-ID: Do you want a PVR ? Do you want to learn how to make your own, using off-the-shelf hardware and Free Software ? Do you want to know what hardware will work and learn how to set it up with the minimum hassle ? Then 1) sign up for the event (using the link below) and then show up at linuxcaffe November 4th, from 11am to 3pm. find out more at http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/731 The minimum number of sign-ups, for this event is 6, otherwise you can expect a cancellation notice. thanks, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 16:10:12 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:10:12 -0400 Subject: Fwd:What is it with Workshops ? In-Reply-To: References: <50429.207.188.66.236.1162134718.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: 'cause I sent the first reply from the wrong email address.. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David J Patrick Date: 29-Oct-2006 12:00 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: What is it with Workshops ? To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On 29/10/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > That sort of thing is very discouraging. Unfortunately, any event in > Toronto has huge competition for attention. true ! We're determined to learn from it and Never Give Up ! ;-) > > I'd suggest > > (a) email reminders on the Day Before and possibly the Day Of. Personally, > I find such reminders often are the key to my attending some event. very good, we'll implement that immediately. > > (b) some sort of sign-up list, which includes an email address and phone > number. The event entry, at linuxcaffe.ca, has such a sign-up dialog. Sadly, for this event, I was the only one to use it. > The number of sign-ups is also an indication of how much real interest > there is in the event. For future events, we will cancel the event if a minimum number of sign-ups are not met. That fact will be made part of the event notice. You'll see it in the updated MythTV announcement. I'm sure we could improve promotion. Besides mailing list announcements and website event entries, target groups (depending on the workshop) could be notified with flyers and such. We're open to suggestion. thanks Peter, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 16:28:03 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:28:03 -0500 Subject: What is it with Workshops ? In-Reply-To: <4544CE4B.3070002-k8+l4Qd5hq73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <50429.207.188.66.236.1162134718.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4544CE4B.3070002@inofas.ca> Message-ID: This is pretty standard even for workshops which require that you pay. I've done a few in the past, and typically nobody signs up until the last minute. It's very discouraging. Personally, I'd probably do something like make them pay a refundable deposit. If they show up then refund the money, otherwise in this case donate it to Open Source. dave On 29-Oct-06, at 10:52 AM, Daniel Gardiner wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I agree with the need for a sign-up list. For some expressing > interest is not the same as a commitment, and can change once the > details become available. That is to say, someone could express their > interest and then find out that they can't make it to an event. > > > Daniel > > > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > That sort of thing is very discouraging. Unfortunately, any event > > in Toronto has huge competition for attention. > > > > I'd suggest > > > > (a) email reminders on the Day Before and possibly the Day Of. > > Personally, I find such reminders often are the key to my attending > > some event. > > > > (b) some sort of sign-up list, which includes an email address and > > phone number. That way, if people do sign up, they have really made > > a committment to attend. That can be part of the signup process: > > signatories have to indicate that they are serious about attending. > > Notice that restaurents often get a phone number when taking a > > reservation. I don't know what they do with this (phone you at 2AM > > if you're a no-show at the restaurent?), but it does act as a > > gentle warning that they could get back to you to complain if you > > don't follow through. > > > > The number of sign-ups is also an indication of how much real > > interest there is in the event. > > > > P. > > > >> Yesterday, Matvey Kippershtein came in to linuxcaffe to host his > >> "Wellness workshop for IT workers. The workshop had been posted > >> on our site, the notice went out to several lugs and some light > >> postering was done. A handful of people expressed active interest > >> in attending, the general reaction was positive; good idea, but > >> NOBODY showed up ! This is the second time we have had a total > >> no-show for a workshop. The first one was a linux audio workshop, > >> with Sam and Dave. > >> > >> My question to you, good Toronto Linux Enthusiasts is; why ? > >> > >> wrong topics? wrong venue? wrong timeslot ? wrong promo ? > >> > >> I'm sure that the fourth (promo) could be vastly improved, but in > >> the case of the wellness workshop, I was confident the the folks > >> we DID reach were local and well targeted. > >> > >> Does anybody want to see events where knowledge is shared ? > >> Should we keep trying ? Is there a combination that would be more > >> effective ? Do you suppose anyone will attend the proposed MythTV > >> workshop, next week ? Any thoughts ? > >> > >> djp > >> > >> -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet > >> 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The > >> Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG > >> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFRM5JMkKsJUJU3poRAu+GAJ9maXlitTCKH8kmuKeW4bmRYXwNhQCfalhk > vPvI/F/5w4SqDDC44/tMhlI= > =vqhI > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 17:11:26 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:11:26 -0500 Subject: What is it with Workshops ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I agree with the comment about a sign-up sheet, or an RSVP to the organizer. And an RSVP doesn't mean "Yes, I'm coming", it means "Yes, I'm coming" or "No thanks, I can't come". I've wanted to set up a PVR for some time now, because the shuttling of tapes in and out of the VCR is such a pain (and so 20th century). And I would love to be able to call up something on the living room TV from the basement server, and be able to watch it without commercials. I was hoping to come to an evening workshop, but an event that starts at 11am Saturday is smack dab in the middle of Family Time for me .. making pancakes for the family (ravenous teenage boys -- you get the idea), catching up on everyone's news, playing with the cats, doing the weekend shopping, and so forth. Also, my PVR platform is a somewhat aged P600 with 512M of memory, a little below the recommended minimum, and I wasn't sure that would work well. So, for now, I'll continue to slug it out with Debian and see what I can get set up. What I may find out is that the processor's too slow, or the video card I have isn't compatible with the various packages I want to use. There are inexpensive used machines out there for a couple of hundred dollars -- I just wanted to try building something with the equipment I have lying around. One thing I'm not sure about is whether the lack of cable access made a difference for this event -- I'm all for supporting the linuxcaffe, but it could be that some people who wanted to do an install really wanted a location equipped with cable, because that's how their final installation would be setup. Anyway, just my thoughts. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario On 10/29/06, David J Patrick wrote: > > Yesterday, Matvey Kippershtein came in to linuxcaffe to host his > "Wellness workshop for IT workers. The workshop had been posted on our > site, the notice went out to several lugs and some light postering was > done. A handful of people expressed active interest in attending, the > general reaction was positive; good idea, but NOBODY showed up ! > This is the second time we have had a total no-show for a workshop. > The first one was a linux audio workshop, with Sam and Dave. > > My question to you, good Toronto Linux Enthusiasts is; why ? > > wrong topics? > wrong venue? > wrong timeslot ? > wrong promo ? > > I'm sure that the fourth (promo) could be vastly improved, but in the > case of the wellness workshop, I was confident the the folks we DID > reach were local and well targeted. > > Does anybody want to see events where knowledge is shared ? > Should we keep trying ? > Is there a combination that would be more effective ? > Do you suppose anyone will attend the proposed MythTV workshop, next week > ? > Any thoughts ? > > djp > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 18:55:48 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:55:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Install alternative spaces? Message-ID: <20061029185548.53776.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In planning for the KnoppMyth install I originally counted on Linuxcaffe as a location. As recent e-mails have noted that is not a safe assumption. So, I have some e-mail feelers out as to POSSIBLE alternate places where this event could be held next Saturday, should Linuxcaffe turn out not to be an option for us. Now, I am very open to other possible locations, so both Linuxcafe and the alternates that I have in mind not pan out. The ideal location would have: - Enough space for 5+ people - Power for 5+ PCs - High speed Internet connection - Cable TV connection(s) Now the cable TV connection is in the desirable, but not must have class, the rest of the above are more-or-less musts... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 19:09:03 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:09:03 -0400 Subject: introducing metalug Message-ID: Years ago, as a direct result of my frustrations with proprietary software vendors, I discovered linux. A boxed version of Mandrake 7.2 was my gateway to the world of Open Source (yes, RMS, GNU too) and I never looked back. In my earlier explorations, the desktop software was, to put it gently, not-ready-for-prime-time, but I recognised the underlying philosophies; freedom-as-in-speech, global colabouration, gravitation towards best practices and open standards, stuck with it, and was proven correct in my belief that the development model would survive and flourish and result in software that was good, for all the right reasons. At first, it was lonely. I didn't meet another linux user for a year, or so. I would boot back into Win98 (because I couldn't yet connect to the net) and researched my way through RPM hell and code that shouldn't have been called beta, and to burn .isos. Then I found TLUG and, even though cries for help were often met by the RTFM squad, and threads that would go immediately OT, or radio silence, it was encouraging to know that there existed like minded individuals in my immediate area. Ifn I wuz crazy, I wasn't the only one. Direct contact with a handful of generous souls kept me on the path and (eventually) I was able to reformat my Windows partition. Now linux is mainstream (in a grass rootsy, underground way) and I'm on the Board of Directors of GTAlug, run linuxcaffe; a local coffee shoppe with WiFi and more distros than you can shake a stick at. We've been open for about a year and a half. Momentum is building. The energy and enthusiasm for FLOSS is undeniable, and linuxcaffe may seem like the eye of the hurricane.. but it ain't ! This thing's everywhere. It's like there was some dormant gene just waiting for the technology to catch up. LUGs happen. Some of us will grok FLOSS and then have a need to gather with other birds of a feather. This is a global happening and anywhere that has electricity and an internet connection, has (or will soon have) LUGs. This is good, but, user groups are naturally and necessarily geographically dispersed. There is no consistent form and communication within a LUG is often ad hoc. Communication IN BETWEEN lugs is spotty to non-existent. This misses brilliant opportunities. Small groups of like minded individuals gather in small groups around the planet and say pretty much the same things to each other; "in only more people knew about this...", "if we could only scrape together some resources...", "if we could just contact the Big Players..." and "this linux thing is actually pretty cool, isn't it !". Although linux.ca and linux.com both post large lists of lugs, inter-lug communication is dismal, as demonstrated by our experience here in Toronto, where the synergies between GTAlug, CLUE, NewTLUG, WestLUG, KWLug, are all but unrealised. So I introduce to you, my local lug, metalug. It's a Linux User Group whose focus is Linux User Groups. As yet, it's all in my head, but I've taken the liberty of registering a few domains, and here's what I'd like to do with them; metalug.com - the global lug site, that attempts to track lugs (and if they exist, other metalugs) worldwide. metalug.org - a gathering place for lug resources; website CMSs, templates, membership management software, documents, how-to, and the like. metalug.net - a gateway for interlug communication, mailing list hosting / interlug announcements etc. metalug.ca - the Canadian metalug, listing all known Canadian LUGs with maps and contact info and Canadian Interlug forums. These will all be sister-sites, with seamless links in between, but clear and distinct separation of function. OTOH, a single domain, with sub-domains, may prove the saner way, and the other domains will simply re-direct. idonno. It's insanely ambitious, yes, but if we never start, it'll never happen. No sites have been set-up, no DNS pointed, no domain hosts chosen and this is the very first salvo. Do you like the idea ? Is it worth putting effort into ? Does it exist elsewhere ? discuss, ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 19:21:19 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:21:19 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Install alternative spaces? In-Reply-To: <20061029185548.53776.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061029185548.53776.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > In planning for the KnoppMyth install I originally > counted on Linuxcaffe as a location. As recent e-mails > have noted that is not a safe assumption. HUH ? You can count on linuxcaffe to be available ! I fear you may have mis-interpreted my recent post which was simply to ask; "what if we had a workshop, and nobody came ?" not simply to say "five sign-ups or forget it" > > So, I have some e-mail feelers out as to POSSIBLE > alternate places where this event could be held next > Saturday, should Linuxcaffe turn out not to be an > option for us. Again, linuxcaffe is, and will remain, an option. > > Now, I am very open to other possible locations, so > both Linuxcafe and the alternates that I have in mind > not pan out. The ideal location would have: > > - Enough space for 5+ people > - Power for 5+ PCs > - High speed Internet connection > - Cable TV connection(s) As previously stated, we have all but the cable TV, and it's part of our mission to give you guys a place to do this sort of thing. If you feel that my desire to have a handful of people express interest before moving tables around, is out of line, let me know. OTOH, if you feel strongly that another venue would be preferable, also let me know. Still standing by and personally eager to learn more about MythTV. I've signed up, have you ? :-D djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 19:28:04 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 14:28:04 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <4543F7D1.2020800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <4543F7D1.2020800@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061029192804.GB27968@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Oct 28, 2006 at 08:37:37PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > What's wrong with BMPx instead of audacious or bmp? ========================================================================= [m3000][root][~] emerge --ask bmpx These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "bmpx" have been masked. !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request: - media-sound/bmpx-0.32.0-r1 (masked by: package.mask, ~x86 keyword) # Patrick McLean (25 Sep 2006) # This depends on dev-cpp/cairomm which is in the Gnome 2.16 mask, so # masking until Gnome 2.16 is unmasked - media-sound/bmpx-0.30.3 (masked by: package.mask, ~x86 keyword) - media-sound/bmpx-0.32.0 (masked by: package.mask, ~x86 keyword) - media-sound/bmpx-0.20.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword) For more information, see MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook. ========================================================================= So let's go over the whole story... - in the beginning was xmms, which was hard-coded for GTK1. - that was abandoned, and the xmms2 project was started, which still isn't ready for prime time - someone forked the original xmms, and got it to compile with GTK2. This was BMP (Beep Media Player) - they abandoned it, in favour of a complete re-write, called BMPx. As you can see, they pull in the cairomm lib. This is overkill. - Someone got annoyed enough they went and and forked audacious from the abandoned BMP. This project had a choice between retaining "doublesize" or retaining "skins". They chose to retain "skins", which leads to a dinky little player on a 1280x1024 screen. They refuse to make it larger. I think they've got their priorities wrong. Since I only want a stinking .pls player, I don't really mind this, but the problems with mp3 support are annoying. mpg321 will play a URL, so I can probably come up with an ugly hack to extract the URL from the .pls file and pass it to mpg321. But it can't keep up with 56 kbit audio stream, so I'm out of luck. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 19:34:19 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 14:34:19 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610291134xacc73afi6077ac1381befc4d@mail.gmail.com> Switching to top-post + embedded response mode... [ ok ] Thank you. Your enthusiasm, skill set, and experience, was the reason you were nominated. I was frustrated much the same exactly 367 days ago... http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/20774/focus=20774 IMO, this is a wonderful idea - but you're going to need a serious amount of organization. The kind of organization and volunteerism described in the History of the World, Part 2 thread noted above. On 10/29/06, David J Patrick wrote: > Years ago, as a direct result of my frustrations with proprietary > software vendors, I discovered linux. [...] > Now linux is mainstream (in a grass rootsy, underground way) and I'm > on the Board of Directors of GTAlug, run linuxcaffe; a local coffee > shoppe with WiFi and more distros than you can shake a stick at. We've > been open for about a year and a half. Momentum is building. The > energy and enthusiasm for FLOSS is undeniable, and linuxcaffe may seem > like the eye of the hurricane.. but it ain't ! This thing's > everywhere. It's like there was some dormant gene just waiting for the > technology to catch up. > > LUGs happen. Some of us will grok FLOSS and then have a need to gather > with other birds of a feather. This is a global happening and anywhere > that has electricity and an internet connection, has (or will soon > have) LUGs. This is good, Don't forget OLPC. ;-) > but, > user groups are naturally and necessarily geographically dispersed. > There is no consistent form and communication within a LUG is often ad > hoc. Communication IN BETWEEN lugs is spotty to non-existent. This > misses brilliant opportunities. Small groups of like minded > individuals gather in small groups around the planet and say pretty > much the same things to each other; "in only more people knew about > this...", "if we could only scrape together some resources...", "if we > could just contact the Big Players..." and "this linux thing is > actually pretty cool, isn't it !". Although linux.ca and linux.com > both post large lists of lugs, inter-lug communication is dismal, as > demonstrated by our experience here in Toronto, where the synergies > between GTAlug, CLUE, NewTLUG, WestLUG, KWLug, are all but unrealised. > > So I introduce to you, my local lug, metalug. Personal preference: use perl; our local lug ;-) > It's a Linux User Group whose focus is Linux User Groups. > > As yet, it's all in my head, but I've taken the liberty of registering > a few domains, and here's what I'd like to do with them; > > metalug.com - the global lug site, that attempts to track lugs (and if > they exist, other metalugs) worldwide. > > metalug.org - a gathering place for lug resources; website CMSs, > templates, membership management software, documents, how-to, and the > like. > > metalug.net - a gateway for interlug communication, mailing list > hosting / interlug announcements etc. > > metalug.ca - the Canadian metalug, listing all known Canadian LUGs > with maps and contact info and Canadian Interlug forums. > > These will all be sister-sites, with seamless links in between, but > clear and distinct separation of function. OTOH, a single domain, with > sub-domains, may prove the saner way, and the other domains will > simply re-direct. idonno. One thing I learned from *nix - there's a 1001 ways to do everything. If you don't find infrastructure volunteers, use the easiest. > It's insanely ambitious, yes, but if we never start, it'll never happen. > No sites have been set-up, no DNS pointed, no domain hosts chosen and > this is the very first salvo. Do you like the idea ? Yes. > Is it worth putting effort into ? Yes. >Does it exist elsewhere ? If it does, I don't know about it. I do envy interlug's email address though ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 19:44:48 2006 From: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 14:44:48 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061028013127.46621.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> I'm interested in this workshop too. BTW, Factory direct has a few of the AVC-2410 see http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810 but they are now $49. Where can the coupon be found, I checked this weeks flyer - nothing? Can someone explain what is the difference between video card and TV tuner? Are some cards a combination of video and TV tuner? Thanks, Robert Robert F. Kennedy Near Dufferin & College -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin McGregor Sent: October 27, 2006 9:31 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: MythTV install workshop? --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed > wrote: > > Would anyone be offering TV Cards for sale? > > How much of a markup are you prepared to contemplate? :-) > > If you're not keen on paying a fair bit over market, then nobody's > likely to be willing to pay to put in inventory on the chance that > somebody *might* be interested... Well, I have a used TV tuner card I would be willing to sell for somewhat less than I paid for it. Small issue with the card in question, there are problems with support of this card under Linux, so you would need to use it with one of those other OSs.... If there is any interest I would be happy to bring that along with me to the KnoppMyth install... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 20:05:33 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:05:33 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162152335.5531.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 15:09 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Years ago, as a direct result of my frustrations with proprietary > software vendors, I discovered linux. A boxed version of Mandrake 7.2 > was my gateway to the world of Open Source (yes, RMS, GNU too) and I > never looked back. In my earlier explorations, the desktop software > was, to put it gently, not-ready-for-prime-time, but I recognised the > underlying philosophies; freedom-as-in-speech, global colabouration, > gravitation towards best practices and open standards, stuck with it, > and was proven correct in my belief that the development model would > survive and flourish and result in software that was good, for all the > right reasons. > > At first, it was lonely. I didn't meet another linux user for a year, > or so. I would boot back into Win98 (because I couldn't yet connect to > the net) and researched my way through RPM hell and code that > shouldn't have been called beta, and to burn .isos. > > Then I found TLUG and, even though cries for help were often met by > the RTFM squad, and threads that would go immediately OT, or radio > silence, it was encouraging to know that there existed like minded > individuals in my immediate area. Ifn I wuz crazy, I wasn't the only > one. Direct contact with a handful of generous souls kept me on the > path and (eventually) I was able to reformat my Windows partition. > > Now linux is mainstream (in a grass rootsy, underground way) and I'm > on the Board of Directors of GTAlug, run linuxcaffe; a local coffee > shoppe with WiFi and more distros than you can shake a stick at. We've > been open for about a year and a half. Momentum is building. The > energy and enthusiasm for FLOSS is undeniable, and linuxcaffe may seem > like the eye of the hurricane.. but it ain't ! This thing's > everywhere. It's like there was some dormant gene just waiting for the > technology to catch up. > > LUGs happen. Some of us will grok FLOSS and then have a need to gather > with other birds of a feather. This is a global happening and anywhere > that has electricity and an internet connection, has (or will soon > have) LUGs. This is good, > > but, > user groups are naturally and necessarily geographically dispersed. > There is no consistent form and communication within a LUG is often ad > hoc. Communication IN BETWEEN lugs is spotty to non-existent. This > misses brilliant opportunities. Small groups of like minded > individuals gather in small groups around the planet and say pretty > much the same things to each other; "in only more people knew about > this...", "if we could only scrape together some resources...", "if we > could just contact the Big Players..." and "this linux thing is > actually pretty cool, isn't it !". Although linux.ca and linux.com > both post large lists of lugs, inter-lug communication is dismal, as > demonstrated by our experience here in Toronto, where the synergies > between GTAlug, CLUE, NewTLUG, WestLUG, KWLug, are all but unrealised. > > So I introduce to you, my local lug, metalug. > > It's a Linux User Group whose focus is Linux User Groups. > > As yet, it's all in my head, but I've taken the liberty of registering > a few domains, and here's what I'd like to do with them; > > metalug.com - the global lug site, that attempts to track lugs (and if > they exist, other metalugs) worldwide. > > metalug.org - a gathering place for lug resources; website CMSs, > templates, membership management software, documents, how-to, and the > like. > > metalug.net - a gateway for interlug communication, mailing list > hosting / interlug announcements etc. > > metalug.ca - the Canadian metalug, listing all known Canadian LUGs > with maps and contact info and Canadian Interlug forums. > > These will all be sister-sites, with seamless links in between, but > clear and distinct separation of function. OTOH, a single domain, with > sub-domains, may prove the saner way, and the other domains will > simply re-direct. idonno. > > It's insanely ambitious, yes, but if we never start, it'll never happen. > No sites have been set-up, no DNS pointed, no domain hosts chosen and > this is the very first salvo. Do you like the idea ? Is it worth > putting effort into ? Does it exist elsewhere ? This is an extension of some ideas put forth by Richard Weait and Paul Nijjar. Richard has been cross pollinating lugs and FLOSS groups for quite a while now. He and Paul have ideas of meta mailing lists and have put prototypes in place without the need for a larger entity. The other initiative of theirs (please excuse me if I'm forgetting other contributors) was a combined calendar of events. I like the idea of having a large and demonstrably strong advocacy group for open source. But those currently exist in FSF, Linux International and OSDN, even the EFF counts to some degree. Can a metalug bring something new to this? Off the top of my head I see that this would largely benefit small LUGs. Those lugs may not have the resources or man-power to build, develop and maintain a large web site. I could even see medium sized lugs taking advantage of this. The KWLug recently put in place a new web site and it was a tremendous effort. Some of the features that we wanted are still not in place. If there were a free hosting that provided what we needed we may have taken advantage of it. The big ones for us were comprehensive calendars, multi-lug announcements on mailing lists, and forum-email gateways. This would have to support domain name hosting as well. The simple form of providing a list of lugs and lug hosting efforts is feasible. There are lots of other small-lug issues a meta lug can solve by centralizing information. The more advanced form, corporate and government advocacy, I think is beyond the scope, at least for now. It's an endeavour that would require capital and lots of man-hours. This money would require a large effort to collect as donations, or it would require corporate sponsorship which could be undermining. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 20:14:03 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> References: <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> Message-ID: <20061029201403.27530.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Kennedy" wrote: > I'm interested in this workshop too. BTW, Factory > direct has a few of the > AVC-2410 see > http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810 > but > they are now $49. Where can the coupon be found, I > checked this weeks flyer > - nothing? There was a coupon in last week's flyer (now expired). Not sure what to suggest here. > Can someone explain what is the difference between > video card and TV tuner? > Are some cards a combination of video and TV tuner? A TV tuner card takes a TV signal from antenna/cable/etc., and turns it into a data that your PC can understand. The video card take data from your PC and turns it into something your monitor and/or TV can deal with. I am only aware of one well supported under Linux card that can do both tune a TV signal and put out an svideo signal that many TVs can deal with, the Hauppage PVR-350 card (nice card, but a bit expensive...). > Thanks, > Robert > > > Robert F. Kennedy > Near Dufferin & College > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] > On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: October 27, 2006 9:31 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: MythTV install workshop? > > --- Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 10/27/06, Ansar Mohammed > > wrote: > > > Would anyone be offering TV Cards for sale? > > > > How much of a markup are you prepared to > contemplate? :-) > > > > If you're not keen on paying a fair bit over > market, then nobody's > > likely to be willing to pay to put in inventory on > the chance that > > somebody *might* be interested... > > Well, I have a used TV tuner card I would be willing > to sell for somewhat > less than I paid for it. Small issue with the card > in question, there are > problems with support of this card under Linux, so > you would need to use it > with one of those other OSs.... > > If there is any interest I would be happy to bring > that along with me to the > KnoppMyth install... > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns How to > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 21:10:08 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:10:08 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: <1162152335.5531.26.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1162152335.5531.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610291310s2483326aga1f27e552524b041@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/06, John Van Ostrand wrote: > This is an extension of some ideas put forth by Richard Weait and Paul > Nijjar. Richard has been cross pollinating lugs and FLOSS groups for > quite a while now. He and Paul have ideas of meta mailing lists and have > put prototypes in place without the need for a larger entity. The other > initiative of theirs (please excuse me if I'm forgetting other > contributors) was a combined calendar of events. > > I like the idea of having a large and demonstrably strong advocacy group > for open source. But those currently exist in FSF, Linux International > and OSDN, even the EFF counts to some degree. Can a metalug bring > something new to this? I believe so. For my part, I think I can help on a web-based UI for a metalug. For me the single most exciting part of the Atomic OS is the multi-user system, and this is a perfect opportunity to show why. I won't describe what I see in detail at this point, it's too early, but I think that metalug.* could provide several new things - including YACF, Yet Another Canadian Flag. Despite the "Yet Another" component of the acronym, a new international/national/local initiative should only increase Canada's profile (for better or worse) in the FOSS world. The closer it is tied to similar/related initiatives the better because of the resulting concept-reinforcement feedback loop. > Off the top of my head I see that this would largely benefit small LUGs. > Those lugs may not have the resources or man-power to build, develop and > maintain a large web site. I could even see medium sized lugs taking > advantage of this. The KWLug recently put in place a new web site and it > was a tremendous effort. Some of the features that we wanted are still > not in place. If there were a free hosting that provided what we needed > we may have taken advantage of it. The big ones for us were > comprehensive calendars, multi-lug announcements on mailing lists, and > forum-email gateways. This would have to support domain name hosting as > well. > > The simple form of providing a list of lugs and lug hosting efforts is > feasible. There are lots of other small-lug issues a meta lug can solve > by centralizing information. > > The more advanced form, corporate and government advocacy, I think is > beyond the scope, at least for now. It's an endeavour that would require > capital and lots of man-hours. This money would require a large effort > to collect as donations, or it would require corporate sponsorship which > could be undermining. "Beyond the scope," should be communicated to other intiatives - to the projects/organizations better equipped to deal with the issue(s) at hand. Communication is the biggest barrier here, and I think that's what metalug would be trying to resolve. I'd suggest that local/national SMB's (Small-Medium sized Business) that make use of Linux/FOSS could help metalug out by sponsoring such an undertaking. Of course, some serious organization would have to occur first. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 20:54:50 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:54:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Install alternative spaces? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061029205450.27074.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > In planning for the KnoppMyth install I originally > > counted on Linuxcaffe as a location. As recent > e-mails > > have noted that is not a safe assumption. > HUH ? You can count on linuxcaffe to be available ! This is not what you said in your past e-mail where you noted: "The minimum number of sign-ups, for this event is 6, otherwise you can expect a cancellation notice." I took the above to mean that if less than your defined minimum sign up I can NOT count on Linuxcaffe, period. > I fear you may have mis-interpreted my recent post > which was simply to ask; > "what if we had a workshop, and nobody came ?" > not simply to say "five sign-ups or forget it" This is not what you wrote earlier. > > So, I have some e-mail feelers out as to POSSIBLE > > alternate places where this event could be held > next > > Saturday, should Linuxcaffe turn out not to be an > > option for us. > Again, linuxcaffe is, and will remain, an option. > > > > Now, I am very open to other possible locations, > so > > both Linuxcafe and the alternates that I have in > mind > > not pan out. The ideal location would have: > > > > - Enough space for 5+ people > > - Power for 5+ PCs > > - High speed Internet connection > > - Cable TV connection(s) > > As previously stated, we have all but the cable TV, > and it's part of > our mission to give you guys a place to do this sort > of thing. If you > feel that my desire to have a handful of people > express interest > before moving tables around, is out of line, let me > know. OTOH, if you > feel strongly that another venue would be > preferable, also let me > know. Linuxcaffe is your space, how you manage it really truly is totally up to you and I have NO business suggesting otherwise. If you want to impose conditions upon the use of the space that is your option and I have no right to complain. My concern is making sure I have a venue available even if just one person expresses an interest in attending. I could be quite happy with Linuxcaffe, but to go by your earlier e-mail if that isn't an option I will do my best to find another venue, an annoyance, but hardly the end of the world. After all I promised to do a KnoppMyth install workshop next weekend, and this is a promise I would like to keep. I have received e-mails from 5 people saying they want to attend (with 1 person saying he plans to bring a friend). How many of those people will be willing to sign up for an account at Linuxcaffe is in my books neither here nor there. > Still standing by and personally eager to learn more > about MythTV. > I've signed up, have you ? Until I have a better picture as to what is going on, no. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 21:58:39 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:58:39 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0610291310s2483326aga1f27e552524b041-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1162152335.5531.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <99a6c38f0610291310s2483326aga1f27e552524b041@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162159121.5531.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 16:10 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I won't describe what I see in detail at this point, it's too early, > but I think that metalug.* could provide several new things - > including YACF, Yet Another Canadian Flag. Despite the "Yet Another" > component of the acronym, a new international/national/local > initiative should only increase Canada's profile (for better or worse) > in the FOSS world. The closer it is tied to similar/related > initiatives the better because of the resulting concept-reinforcement > feedback loop. Actually I think now is the time to go into more detail. There are several aspects to deal with here. Perhaps we're talking about different details. Here is the detail I think need to address: The technical aspect should be easy to many of us and doesn't need to be addressed right away. Being programmers, sysadmins, web designers, and etc. we (i.e. the lugs in general) are abundant with technology skills and often jump in to it too early. Even though this isn't necessary a business venture it helps to look at is as such and use the tools that businesses use to be successful. Currently a vision statement is being developed in this thread. The plan to achieve that vision will require funding, marketing and sales, management, etc. > "Beyond the scope," should be communicated to other intiatives - to > the projects/organizations better equipped to deal with the issue(s) > at hand. Communication is the biggest barrier here, and I think > that's what metalug would be trying to resolve. That communication should begin now. The LUGS would be the customers and members. We can use them to help determine their needs. Their buy-in is the key here. We need both the larger LUGs and the smaller lugs to buy in and their needs will be different. They need to be part of the process. We can start in this thread to speculate what those needs might be based on the GTALUG and KW LUG and whatever other LUGS are reading. Then take those to a larger forum of LUG reps. > I'd suggest that local/national SMB's (Small-Medium sized Business) > that make use of Linux/FOSS could help metalug out by sponsoring such > an undertaking. Those donations wouldn't taint the goals. I hadn't though of them, only the Linux hardware and software vendors. > Of course, some serious organization would have to occur first. I agree, and I have some ideas on that. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 22:51:14 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:51:14 -0400 Subject: working out workshops, and the MythTV workshop "?" Message-ID: So we had another workshop where nobody came. And I sent out a discussion starter, to the list, to find out why. I also said that this time there had to be a minimum number of sign-ups before the thing could be said to be actually happening. I had hoped that this would stimulate participation, and give everyone involved an idea of what (and who) to expect. It seems to be having the opposite effect, with a call for alternate locations and concerns expressed re; event expectations. Fair enough ! At least, for this one, I'd like to retract any sign-up minimum and any or all cancellations resulting from said minimum. Again; as I am signed up, I'm having a mythTV workshop ALONE, if I have to.. y'know.. in between bussing tables and making people coffees and stuff, there is NO minimum sign-up on this one. That said, there is now discussion of alternate locations, for the MythTV thing, and I'm standing by for re-confirmation of the event. It's really ok one way or another, guys, if Starbucks'll give you a power bar, or you want to get together elsewhere, I hope it goes smashingly ! I'm just trying to be accommodating. Some say charge a fee (refundable) in advance, some say anything like that is a show-stopper. We'll have to work it out. It would really be great to know if an event was likely to be over attended, or under attended. As the idea of signing up at the website has caused alarm, I propose that for future workshops hosted by linuxcaffe, the organizer of the event will be charged with attendance forecasting, and such. how about this; if you would like to attend, would you please email me personally (off-list) If the organizers re-confirm the event, it's a GO. the event will go on, even if you don't, so don't sweat it. and you can sign-up at linuxcaffe.ca, or not. I think we all want to have workshops, and linuxcaffe is learning how to do it. more discussion, trial and error, and more discussion, where there's a will there's a way. k? thanks, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 29 23:27:27 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:27:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Alternate space... Message-ID: <20061029232727.35098.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ok, one of the people I contacted regarding an alternative to Linuxcaffe has come through with a tentative yes (I should know Monday for sure if the space is available). Regardless, one way or another I expect I will be able to pull the event together next Saturday. The space be down on Eastern Ave.. Yes we are talking the same folks who have been of great help to GTALug in the past with meeting space for a few past NewTLUG meetings and provided booth furnishings for the last two LinuxWorld Canada shows. Things are a bit strange down on Eastern Ave, in large part because there is a TV crew shooting in/around the building (and thus I need to confirm what the TV crew is doing next Saturday, if the answer is nothing we are good to go). So, come Monday we should be able to finalize choices. Personally I am more comfortable with Eastern Ave., but we will have to see if that is a valid option (and if not ... well there are other possible options). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 00:03:20 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:03:20 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Alternate space... In-Reply-To: <20061029232727.35098.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061029232727.35098.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Ok, one of the people I contacted regarding an > alternative to Linuxcaffe has come through with a > tentative yes (I should know Monday for sure if the > space is available). Regardless, one way or another I > expect I will be able to pull the event together next > Saturday. You heard it here first, folks, the MythTV workshop location status has gone from a flickering green to uncertain orange. Watch this space for details from the organizer, as they emerge. > > The space be down on Eastern Ave.. The (former ?) ReSource space is certainly roomy enough! ..well.. let me know yeah or neigh asap, ok ? I won't book anything else in that slot, so just..uhh.. let me know. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 00:34:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:34:00 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <20061028231637.GA25220-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <45454878.7010502@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > I have one other need for an audioplayer. I'm a paying subscriber of > Live365, and I need a simple audio player to launch and play audio > streams direct off a .pls file. Windows-Media-Player-wannabees like > amarok need not apply. That's a shame, because I use amarok all the time to play Live365 feeds. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 00:35:15 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:35:15 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: <1162159121.5531.59.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1162152335.5531.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <99a6c38f0610291310s2483326aga1f27e552524b041@mail.gmail.com> <1162159121.5531.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0610291635n7aac9e8ej31d3b6fbb7088420@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/06, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 16:10 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > I won't describe what I see in detail at this point, it's too early, > > but I think that metalug.* could provide several new things - > > including YACF, Yet Another Canadian Flag. Despite the "Yet Another" > > component of the acronym, a new international/national/local > > initiative should only increase Canada's profile (for better or worse) > > in the FOSS world. The closer it is tied to similar/related > > initiatives the better because of the resulting concept-reinforcement > > feedback loop. > > Actually I think now is the time to go into more detail. There are > several aspects to deal with here. Perhaps we're talking about different > details. Here is the detail I think need to address: > > The technical aspect should be easy to many of us and doesn't need to be > addressed right away. Being programmers, sysadmins, web designers, and > etc. we (i.e. the lugs in general) are abundant with technology skills > and often jump in to it too early. I am with you 100% on this argument; in fact, it's the reason I said it was too early for me to lay out my vision. The problem is that it's not my vision. Mr. Patrick's had it too. And as he himself points out, he's probably (and as of this thread, now certainly) not the only one. I think as the starter of the topic, DJP should speak first about details. > Even though this isn't necessary a business venture it helps to look at > is as such and use the tools that businesses use to be successful. > > Currently a vision statement is being developed in this thread. The plan > to achieve that vision will require funding, marketing and sales, > management, etc. Agreed. But still, organization first... > > "Beyond the scope," should be communicated to other intiatives - to > > the projects/organizations better equipped to deal with the issue(s) > > at hand. Communication is the biggest barrier here, and I think > > that's what metalug would be trying to resolve. > > That communication should begin now. The LUGS would be the customers and > members. We can use them to help determine their needs. Their buy-in is > the key here. We need both the larger LUGs and the smaller lugs to buy > in and their needs will be different. They need to be part of the > process. > > We can start in this thread to speculate what those needs might be based > on the GTALUG and KW LUG and whatever other LUGS are reading. Then take > those to a larger forum of LUG reps. ... > > I'd suggest that local/national SMB's (Small-Medium sized Business) > > that make use of Linux/FOSS could help metalug out by sponsoring such > > an undertaking. > > Those donations wouldn't taint the goals. I hadn't though of them, only > the Linux hardware and software vendors. > > > Of course, some serious organization would have to occur first. > > I agree, and I have some ideas on that. ... Organization, organization, organization. I still have to compile the results of the FOSS in Education meeting notes from last month, but if folks in the GTA want to come together on this, I'd recommend a round-table meeting at linuxcaffe sometime in November. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 02:36:15 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:36:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Alternate space... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061030023615.47316.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Ok, one of the people I contacted regarding an > > alternative to Linuxcaffe has come through with a > > tentative yes (I should know Monday for sure if > the > > space is available). Regardless, one way or > another I > > expect I will be able to pull the event together > next > > Saturday. > > You heard it here first, folks, the MythTV workshop > location status > has gone from a flickering green to uncertain > orange. Watch this space > for details from the organizer, as they emerge. Well, I thought the location was certain, then it went uncertain, so I instantly started looking for alternates, and came up with two (just got a tentative yes to another location). So, current list of possibilities are: - Linuxcaffe - Eastern Ave, near King and River - A downtown office building, close to subway (closer than Linuxcaffe anyway). Food court with lots of cheap eats in the office building across the street (open on Saturday). Bad news is would have to deal with the security set-up, which on weekends is UGLY. Would also have to deal with elevator lock down, which is also UGLY. Flaw with all of the above is no cable TV, otherwise they are all more-or-less comparable in terms of available space, power, high speed Internet... Now, I don't mind a situation where I talk to someone about a project and they say "Yes you can do this subject to conditions X, Y, and Z", that is fine, as long as I know what I am getting into. What happened here today was there seemed to be a change in mid-stream where assumptions that I had though were very safe assumptions turned out to be dead wrong, a situation that went over very badly with me. What also went over poorly with me was that I had no advance warning that this was coming, just a note to the general mailing list that it was 6 people or else (all this after I got e-mail that 6 people planned to come to the event). A third fairly minor issue was the use of "linuxcaffe event; MythTV workshop", this was to be an event at Linuxcaffe, until I get put on the Linuxcaffe payroll this is not an event owned by Linuxcaffe as is implied by the above title. In other words, while David Patrick can do what he wants with Linuxcaffe, the way things were handled today felt to me like a slap in my face. So, where to go? Not sure, but I do know that at the moment Linuxcaffe is not my first pick, might not even be my 2nd pick. Hopefully by noon tomorrow I will know just where things stand and pass that on to the list. Regardless I will find a way to make this event happen. > > The space be down on Eastern Ave.. > > The (former ?) ReSource space is certainly roomy > enough! Not so simple, due to the TV crew, things are a bit strange. Still for a crowd of 5-6 people there should be enough room. Key issue is, "will they be shooting?" if the answer is yes, then nothing else can be happening in the building... > ..well.. let me know yeah or neigh asap, ok ? > I won't book anything else in that slot, so > just..uhh.. let me know. > > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 03:54:14 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:54:14 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Alternate space... In-Reply-To: <20061030023615.47316.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061030023615.47316.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Well, I thought the location was certain, then it went > uncertain, so I instantly started looking for > alternates, I'm sorry if it looked like I would pull the plug on a whim, I see how that would shake your planning, but honestly thought, with the enthusiasm expressed here, that under half a dozen confirmed attendees was highly unlikely, and might serve to shake a little commitment outta the crowd. As a result of this, I'm revising my approach to holding workshops at the caffe. I do hope we can work together on this, even if you decide to hold this one elsewhere. > Flaw with all of the above is no cable TV, otherwise > they are all more-or-less comparable in terms of > available space, power, high speed Internet... I might even be able to cadge cable from the neighbours upstairs... just need to know what the plan is. > > What happened > here today was there seemed to be a change in > mid-stream where assumptions that I had though were > very safe assumptions turned out to be dead wrong, a > situation that went over very badly with me. again, my apologies if I seemed to be ready to pull the rug out from under you. The whole workshop thing needs to be revised and formalised. > A third fairly minor issue was the use > of "linuxcaffe event; MythTV workshop", this was to be > an event at Linuxcaffe, until I get put on the > Linuxcaffe payroll this is not an event owned by > Linuxcaffe as is implied by the above title. Yes, I see your point here, too, Colin, and I don't think it a minor one, at all. We're just used to our calendar calling any event scheduled at linuxcaffe a "linuxcaffe event" and it was not intended to claim ownership of anything. Thank you for raising this. Who's event would this be ? Who's the "Producer" ? In future, I will be sure to refer to something like this as "event at linuxcaffe" unless we are producing the event. In other > words, while David Patrick can do what he wants with > Linuxcaffe, the way things were handled today felt to > me like a slap in my face. Colin, I'm truly sorry and mortified. It was in no way intended as such and, in retrospect, I can see clearly how my actions could be interpreted as you did. Although I am sure to blunder and offend elsewhere, I will try and learn from this one. I remain at your service, David J Patrick -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 06:47:45 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:47:45 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <45454878.7010502-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <45454878.7010502@telly.org> Message-ID: <1162190865.5572.46.camel@stan64.site> suse sled 10 work with live365 out of the box. keep in mind you have to make a setting in your config at live365 on how it plays. what pisses me off is that there is the mp3 extention technology they use so if your player supports it, you get a better quality feed. in fact, at least with the stations i listen too, they are a med. quality feed, but have the mp3 extention on them, of course in googling, etc i see no player for linux that supports this, so that does suck. Then again that probably a very very proprietary add on that the world can generally do without (when applied to such a general market). -tl On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 19:34 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > I have one other need for an audioplayer. I'm a paying subscriber of > > Live365, and I need a simple audio player to launch and play audio > > streams direct off a .pls file. Windows-Media-Player-wannabees like > > amarok need not apply. > That's a shame, because I use amarok all the time to play Live365 feeds. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 13:32:22 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:32:22 -0400 Subject: introducing the MetaLUG Foundation (introducing metalug, part II) Message-ID: and who's going to pay for all of this metalug mail, website, resources stuff ? Who's going to pay people to actually put in all the work required to set up run metalug.com ? The MetaLUG Foundation, of course ! With the help of more the legally and bureaucratically inclined members of our little community, I hope to realise a Foundation whose goals are; 1) identify, catalog and map LUGs everywhere. 2) to foster synergies between LUGs and create effective channels both inter-lug and upstream. 3) to aggregate resources to help make the creation or maintenance of a LUG easy and fun. 4) to promote the use of GNU/linux and/or FLOSS. The MetaLUG Foundation will raise funds through private and corporate donations, and by offering large, paid workshops. The entire process will have to be kept way out in the open and eat an all-dogfood diet. Funds raised will go towards the above stated goals, often employing the considerable skills found in our very midst. The MetaLUG Foundation will buy mainstream advertising, with funds raised from the grass roots to the glass towers. dreaming ? [shrugs] it's what I do ! can't help it, and if I have your ear, I'll use it. The worst thing that could happen is that I'm branded as a flaming linux fan-boy nutcase and get osrichsized ! The best thing that could happen is that some folks might like the idea, and run with it ! Can I do it alone ? c'mon, no way, not in a million years, I can't even configure a network printer, but could the combined memberships of GTAlug, NewTLUG, KWlug et al ?? why maybe yes ! I think they could ! If they were so inclined, so I toss it out there. I'll be setting up metalug.com.net.org.ca initially as a means of refining and defining the mission, and then running them to achieve it. I hope you'll join me. I need help ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 15:54:26 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:54:26 +0000 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/29/06, David J Patrick wrote: > As yet, it's all in my head, but I've taken the liberty of registering > a few domains, and here's what I'd like to do with them; > > metalug.com - the global lug site, that attempts to track lugs (and if > they exist, other metalugs) worldwide. > > metalug.org - a gathering place for lug resources; website CMSs, > templates, membership management software, documents, how-to, and the > like. > > metalug.net - a gateway for interlug communication, mailing list > hosting / interlug announcements etc. > > metalug.ca - the Canadian metalug, listing all known Canadian LUGs > with maps and contact info and Canadian Interlug forums. I have a counterargument. All of these BUT the .ca domain are under global TLDs, so the notion of the .com one being "the global lug site" has something a little bit nonsensical about it. The only one of those that strikes me as being particularly relevant for any "functional" reason is the .net one; the .net TLD tends to be used for network glue, which means that it would make sense for DNS to get managed via metalug.net. Thus, presumably, the other domains would have, as their nameservers, say, ns1.metalug.net and ns2.metalug.net (which certainly otta be VERY SEPARATE servers!). Outside of that, there are perfectly good ways of attaching hierarchy to domain names. global.metalug.org - tracking the global matters documents.metalug.org - for documentary matters howtos.metalug.org - Guess? :-) membership.metalug.org - for the "membership CMS" stuff mail.metalug.org - where mail goes interlug.metalug.org - for inter-LUG related matters A national metalug site could have similar relevant hierarchies to indicate things: mail.metalug.ca interlug.metalug.ca documents.metalug.ca (with CA-specific stuff) Those are much more natural hierarchy systems than "try to map this onto org, com, net, ca" provide (btw, you forgot .INFO! :-)) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 17:04:28 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:04:28 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> References: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> Message-ID: If you need an inexpensive, working tuner card, see my previous message for a link to Canada Computers. There is a store on the same block as factorydirect, but a bit further west, and that card works fine under Linux, though I can't compare the image quality to other cards, since I don't have anything to compare it to. Setup is quick, but involves sending an obscure module parameter to the driver, so if you buy one and need help with this, I can dig up a link to the relevant instruction page, etc. On 10/29/06, Robert F. Kennedy wrote: > I'm interested in this workshop too. BTW, Factory direct has a few of the > AVC-2410 see http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810 but > they are now $49. Where can the coupon be found, I checked this weeks flyer > - nothing? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 17:57:29 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:57:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. Message-ID: <20061030175729.28039.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Want to turn a PC into a TiVo personal video recorder, with even more bells and whistles? Want the power and flexibility of Linux behind it? Well, then you want MythTV a all the bells and whistles. The problem with MythTV is that it tends to be something of a challenge to install. This weekend we will be doing a specialized install fest where we will be installing KnoppMyth on to boxes, which removes most, but not all of the headaches of doing a MythTV install. Please note that since the first note about this event went out to the TLUG general mailing list there has been a change in plans, so please pay attention to the details below: - Date: Saturday November 4th, 10:00 AM ? 2:00 PM - Place: Innovation Toronto, 169 Eastern Ave. (intersection of Eastern and St. Laurence, 1 block south of King, just west of the Don Valley). The focus of this will be to do a hands on event, doing actual installs. I currently have the following people signed up: - Dave Germiquet and friend - Teddy David Mills - Jim Taylor - William O'Higgins Witteman Innovation Toronto at present has a limited amount of free space. If you do want to be at this install fest please e-mail me I will know how many to expect. My boss at 169 Eastern is looking to sell off some 20+? CRT monitors for $35 each. So if anyone is interested let me know and something can be made to happen this weekend, but keep in mind you will need a motorized vehicle with at least 3 wheels to move these monsters When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or better): - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended). - 256 MB RAM (more recommended). - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives but MUCH more is strongly recommended). - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or better) video cards). For homework before coming to the event please get an account with zap2it.com: labs.zap2it.com These are the folks that provide the free TV listings that you can pop up on screen (catch being you must log-in every 3 months to fill out a survey...). During the account set-up you will be asked for a certificate code which for MythTV is: ZIYN-DQZO-SBUT When selecting a password for your zap2it.com account make sure it is a "disposable" password (i.e.: one you do NOT care if others see at the event), as at one point during the set-up your password will be visible in plain text on screen (sigh, grumble, this is a MythTV issue, not a KnoppMyth issue...). Other stuff, I will be looking at what other goodies that can be brought along for the install. For example, KnoppMyth comes with XMAME, which allow for the running of old coin operated video software under emulation. All those old games are under copyright, but the copyright holders for Gridlee and Robbie Roto have given their ok for non-commercial copying of those programs. KnoppMyth doesn't come with any of the old games. So, I will bring Gridlee, Robbie Roto and what ever other non-included legally copy able goodies that I can come up with. Any suggestions beyond Gridlee and Robbie Roto? Any questions? Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 18:10:23 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:10:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Alternate space... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061030181023.34323.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 29/10/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > In other > > words, while David Patrick can do what he wants > with > > Linuxcaffe, the way things were handled today felt > to > > me like a slap in my face. > Colin, I'm truly sorry and mortified. It was in no > way intended as > such and, in retrospect, I can see clearly how my > actions could be > interpreted as you did. Although I am sure to > blunder and offend > elsewhere, I will try and learn from this one. > I remain at your service, > David J Patrick Well, what is done is done. Still, please feel free to drop by 169 Eastern Ave. this Saturday, I'll do my best to make you feel welcome. I have some vanilla flavoured herbal tea that I will be offering folks (left over from a fund raising event :-) ). I will also see what I can come up with in the way of coffee. All of which may be needed as I gather 169 Eastern is having a bit of furnace trouble... regardless, this seems to be the best currently available option. So, all is good, the install fest will happen :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 17:39:33 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: introducing the MetaLUG Foundation (introducing metalug, part II) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162229974.30948.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-30-10 at 09:32 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > With the help of more the legally and bureaucratically inclined > members of our little community, I hope to realise a Foundation I'm a fan of interlug (metalug) communication and I applaud your enthusiasm David. I also applaud your hot chocolate recipe; that stuff is awesome! I'll add a few items that come to my mind when I think of each of the goals you've listed. > whose > goals are; > > 1) identify, catalog and map LUGs everywhere. Some of these exist. In my opinion this is a maintenance issue more than anything else. Translation tools to other formats might be cool. Wanna know when a new LUG pops up within X-kilometres of your home / office? Could an RSS feed do this? Automating updates and hiatuses by scraping the LUG web sites might work. There was a map / poster of Canadian LUGs at the last Toronto Linuxworld. I think CLUE still has it. Tying the auto-updates (above) into an OpenStreetMap mashup would be pretty cool. (OpenStreetMap is a wiki-style roadmap of everything. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ If you are into maps or GPS, do not visit this link. It will kill your productivity.) > 2) to foster synergies between LUGs and create effective channels both > inter-lug and upstream. Shared hierarchical calendar anybody? The San Fransisco Bay area has a metric boatload of LUGs and a shared calendar so a visitor can find a nearby LUG during most any time period. http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ Wouldn't it be nice to be able to do this (easily) for any area of interest? Planning a trip to Kenora? Where are the local LUGs? When do they meet? What are the scheduled topics? Ideally this calendar will update automatically so that individual LUG organizers don't need to update ANOTHER site. And users can easily monitor portions of the calendar they care about. Is this another RSS feed crossed with an icalendar? > 3) to aggregate resources to help make the creation or maintenance of > a LUG easy and fun. Make it easy to find your LUG. Make it easy for new members to take an interest in your LUG (because they are aware of the cool topics you have on the schedule) and you will have additional hands to share the organizing tasks. > 4) to promote the use of GNU/linux and/or FLOSS. Ah. This is the easy part. Linux keeps getting better every day. I'm not sure that a formal foundation is required for any of my specific suggestions. Perhaps I'm just thinking "too small". I see effective interlug communication as a dialogue between people, not between committees or foundations (again, likely my personal bias). Go visit another local LUG, in addition to your regular haunt. I've seen other TLUG folks doing this (Hi William, Hi Jason!) and they seem not to have suffered from departing the "416" on a temporary basis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 18:37:40 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:37:40 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <20061030175729.28039.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061030175729.28039.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: i will bring --------------- a) Compaq SFF EN, a current 250GB MythTV (PVR-250 with remote) c) Digital camera -- to take install pictures (you can take pictures of the screens without the black refresh bar) d) 3 copies of R5D1 e) a USB2 hard drive users may want to to bring... ---------------- some extra hard drives and 80-pin cables extra DVD drive extra ram usb2 hard drive (to move some data around) portable computer speakers my current mythtv is a 192.168.10.10 address. I do not want to change networking to dhcp and have it possibly cause me problems later. i will install a new hard drive and a new mythtv if i need to connect to the internet there. --- We can decide on pizza and pop or other food arrangements. Colin McGregor wrote: > Want to turn a PC into a TiVo personal video recorder, > with even more bells and whistles? Want the power and > flexibility of Linux behind it? Well, then you want > MythTV a all the bells and whistles. The problem with > MythTV is that it tends to be something of a challenge > to install. This weekend we will be doing a > specialized install fest where we will be installing > KnoppMyth on to boxes, which removes most, but not all > of the headaches of doing a MythTV install. > > Please note that since the first note about this event > went out to the TLUG general mailing list there has > been a change in plans, so please pay attention to the > details below: > > - Date: Saturday November 4th, 10:00 AM ? 2:00 PM > - Place: Innovation Toronto, 169 Eastern Ave. > (intersection of Eastern and St. Laurence, 1 block > south of King, just west of the Don Valley). > > The focus of this will be to do a hands on event, > doing actual installs. I currently have the following > people signed up: > > - Dave Germiquet and friend > - Teddy David Mills > - Jim Taylor > - William O'Higgins Witteman > > Innovation Toronto at present has a limited amount of > free space. If you do want to be at this install fest > please e-mail me I will know how many to expect. > > My boss at 169 Eastern is looking to sell off some > 20+? CRT monitors for $35 each. So if anyone is > interested let me know and something can be made to > happen this weekend, but keep in mind you will need a > motorized vehicle with at least 3 wheels to move these > monsters? > > When it comes to PCs to be used for the install, you > will want to bring a PC with these sorts of specs (or > better): > > - PIII 750 MHz (better recommended). > - 256 MB RAM (more recommended). > - 80 GB hard drive (can be done with 2 x 40 GB drives > but MUCH more is strongly recommended). > - DVD or CD-ROM reader (DVD recommended). > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > better) video cards). > > For homework before coming to the event please get an > account with zap2it.com: > > labs.zap2it.com > > These are the folks that provide the free TV listings > that you can pop up on screen (catch being you must > log-in every 3 months to fill out a survey...). During > the account set-up you will be asked for a certificate > code which for MythTV is: ZIYN-DQZO-SBUT > > When selecting a password for your zap2it.com account > make sure it is a "disposable" password (i.e.: one you > do NOT care if others see at the event), as at one > point during the set-up your password will be visible > in plain text on screen (sigh, grumble, this is a > MythTV issue, not a KnoppMyth issue...). > > Other stuff, I will be looking at what other goodies > that can be brought along for the install. For > example, KnoppMyth comes with XMAME, which allow for > the running of old coin operated video software under > emulation. All those old games are under copyright, > but the copyright holders for Gridlee and Robbie Roto > have given their ok for non-commercial copying of > those programs. KnoppMyth doesn't come with any of the > old games. So, I will bring Gridlee, Robbie Roto and > what ever other non-included legally copy able goodies > that I can come up with. Any suggestions beyond > Gridlee and Robbie Roto? > > Any questions? > > Colin. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 18:57:59 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <20061030175729.28039.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061030175729.28039.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 30/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Please note that since the first note about this event > went out to the TLUG general mailing list there has > been a change in plans, so please pay attention to the > details below: > > - Date: Saturday November 4th, 10:00 AM ? 2:00 PM > - Place: Innovation Toronto, 169 Eastern Ave. > (intersection of Eastern and St. Laurence, 1 block > south of King, just west of the Don Valley). Alrightee ! The linuxcaffe blog entry has been adjusted accordingly. If there's anything we can help out with, just say the word, and have a fantabulous workshop ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 19:56:29 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:56:29 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: References: <20061030175729.28039.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This reminds me, perhaps some of the attendees may be interested to know that you can have a static address with DCHP by setting up an alias in your dhclient.conf (on Debian based systems, at least, though Gentoo can do this as well with a different config file). Off the top of my head it's something like alias { interface "eth0" address 192.168.10.10 network 192.168.10.0 mask 255.255.255.0 } and then your computer effectively can be reached at two IP addresses. Not sure if it's as reliable as static IPs, but it can be easier to keep a DHCP server running on your network and still keep a static IP. > my current mythtv is a 192.168.10.10 address. > I do not want to change networking to dhcp and have it possibly cause me > problems later. > i will install a new hard drive and a new mythtv if i need to connect to > the internet there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 30 20:33:21 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:33:21 -0500 Subject: Vista EULA Message-ID: Saw this on securityfocus: http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/420 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 05:01:24 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:01:24 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> Message-ID: <32f6a8880610302101j65382170rc1e72cf4952fea4b@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, Please include this in your workshop. How to set up mythtv to skip commercials how to seperate tv shows with a regular cable analog on one and digital on the other so you can record 2 shows or watch show and record another at the same time. On 10/30/06, Simon wrote: > > If you need an inexpensive, working tuner card, see my previous > message for a link to Canada Computers. There is a store on the same > block as factorydirect, but a bit further west, and that card works > fine under Linux, though I can't compare the image quality to other > cards, since I don't have anything to compare it to. Setup is quick, > but involves sending an obscure module parameter to the driver, so if > you buy one and need help with this, I can dig up a link to the > relevant instruction page, etc. > > On 10/29/06, Robert F. Kennedy wrote: > > I'm interested in this workshop too. BTW, Factory direct has a few of > the > > AVC-2410 see http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810but > > they are now $49. Where can the coupon be found, I checked this weeks > flyer > > - nothing? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 17:45:56 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:45:56 +0000 Subject: Stats + Web Software Message-ID: Has anybody seen some form of statistical analysis software that is oriented towards deploying the results on the web? We've got performance data sitting in databases where it would be nice to be able to have some "webby" output of summary statistics, like percentiles, mean/variation, possibly ANOVA too... I know how to use R to do this sort of thing interactively, but it would be nice to be able to publish it via a web interface. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 22:17:53 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:17:53 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed Message-ID: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 22:29:34 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:29:34 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu Message-ID: It's been years (>10) since I've dug into Bind, but here I am. Here's what I want to do: - a user comes to a site www.foobar.com - the user registers as "baz" - a bunch of stuff is done in the server, but the net result should be that the user is redirected baz.foobar.com (ideally, already logged in, but I'll deal with that later). - baz.foobar.com is a web app running on a local port, and proxied by Apache with vitual hosting I know I've got a few pieces to work out, but what I'd like advice on is how to automate the Bind/DNS configuration. Simply adding an entry to a postgres table for the subdomain would be ideal. From what I've found so far, it looks like some scripts to add records to the Bind config is needed. Also, does anyone know of existing (liberally licenced) code to kick off the web app, and smoothly transfer the original request. If not, I'll have to put something together with Perl. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 22:38:39 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:38:39 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162333073.21631.1.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: rpm -qf /etc/bashrc That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You can then force install the package to restore the file. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 22:51:40 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:51:40 +0000 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <1161837729.11708.264.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> Cringe. Do any of you gals/guys examine memory usage on long lived linux boxes? (I used the term long lived in the windows sense of the term , ie more than 2 weeks :P ) 98% of boxes I've managed have never used swap. Never. of the 2% that I have seen use swap: 1% are Oracle boxes often running more than one instance . I'm pretty green on the oracle side but what I undestand Oracle is a good OS citizen. You tell it how much you expect to use ( using some solid / simple math) it then allocates as much as it needs , for now. Then as needs rise , it uses upto as much as you originally told it to use. Note: This might exceed Physical memory.. result? Swap. and that's ok in that situ. Things run smoothly. 1% are boxes in serious trouble about to fall over go boom. Hullo poor servlets/jsp in tomcat containers? A colloary to this observation: physical memory usage run at 99.XX % most of time ... this is due to agreesive disk caching as far as I know. So, I've done servers with the 2XRAM swap and servers with nearly zero ( 512 MB) (I'd never do that on an Oracle machine). The time the extra swap buys me on a faulting app is negligble. So what do you guys/gals see? Does swap help you when things go pear shaped? David ted leslie wrote: >i have lately set up some systems with 10-12-16 GB of ram and even >embarking on larger. >SUSE 10 seems to put the swap at 2GB (i guess as a max) once you are up >to these type of RAM numbers (this is in its standard install >configuration recommendation). >So I am thinking that there is generally never a need to go more the 2GB >of HD swap? (at least in Novell's opinion) >Now with ram being so darn cheap, how about a 16 GB system, >but put 2GB of that into a RAM based FS and mount that as your SWAP :) >kinda defeats the purpose, but at least Linux will have its swap >space :) > > > > > >-tl > >On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 15:09 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > >>On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Ian Petersen wrote: >> >> >> >>>Chances are, there are a bunch of processes on your system that spend >>>most of their time idling. If you have no swap, these idle processes >>>_must_ reside in real RAM, which eats away at the amount of RAM that >>>can be used for caching and buffering. On the other hand, if you >>>allow the kernel to swap out mostly-idle processes, it has more room >>>for these speed-enhancing uses of physical memory. >>> >>> >>Hi Ian. You took the words right out of my mouth. Ram being cheap is not >>sufficient reason not to put swap in the system for exactly the reason >>that you mention. >> >>Allowing unused apps to swap and thus allowing the system to reclaim the >>memory and use it for cache and buffering is an overall win for >>performance, even after factoring in the need to swap apps back in from >>time to time. >> >>As for the original poster's query - the old "swap must equal 2x ram" >>formula was derived from the swapping algorithms used on some versions of >>Unix in the past. This is not and has never been necessary on Linux[1]. >> >>Basically the amount of ram+swap should be higher than you would >>reasonably expect the system to demand. On systems with lots of ram (say >>4GB) I'll throw in a few GB of swap (disk is cheap too). Watch out for >>runaway processes that gobble lots of memory - having swap can prevent the >>OOM killer[2] coming in to play and the OOM killer is nobody's friend. >> >>On a side note I highly recommend setting per process limits. See >>limits.conf and ulimit. >> >>[1] Actually there was one kernel which had a bug which meant that if swap >>was not at least 2x ram the system would not swap at all. This was >>quickly fixed and was entirely unintentional. >> >>[2] Out Of Memory killer. ROARRR!!!! >> >>Rob >> >> >> > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 22:58:23 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:58:23 +0000 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <20061026135840.GL30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4547D50F.2040100@quadratic.net> I can imagine a good use of a ram based /tmp: php session data. Anyone played around with that? David Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Swapping to ram would be completely pointless and rather stupid. > > > Yes exactly :) > >> Mouting tmp in ram using tmpfs makes perfectly good sense though. Why >> copy stuff from one part of ram to another through multiple layers of >> block emulation for no useful purpose? > > > I used to use tmpfs but I stopped doing so for two reasons. These > reasons are important to me but they may not be as important to others... > > 1. tmpfs on Linux does not support quotas. I mostly admin on > multi-user boxes and I don't want users being able to individually > fill /tmp. This gives all users a bad day. > > 2. I haven't found a terribly huge performance improvement in using > tmpfs. this is mainly because only a minority of file writes occur in > /tmp. > > Yeah tmpfs can be used in places other than /tmp but in general these > points still apply. > > This is why I've stopped using tmpfs. > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 23:19:23 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:19:23 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420610311519w199775e4hd0eff42f6994b2f8@mail.gmail.com> I've never done anything with Bind, so if you're married to that nameserver, you can ignore the rest, but what about trying djbdns? I know some people have issues with DJB's licensing terms, but his nameserver is easy to use and it's free enough for me. Check out http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html and http://www.lifewithdjbdns.com/. I _think_ that adding a new subdomain to djbdns amounts to this: # cd /service/tinydns/root # ./add-alias baz.foobar.com 1.2.3.4 # make Where 1.2.3.4 is the IP address of the web server that's managing the virtual hosting. The tinydns process will immediately start serving the new data after make completes but, of course, there are still potential issues with cached NXDOMAINs in other (remote) caching nameservers if somebody has recently queried for baz.foobar.com. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 31 23:26:23 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:26:23 -0500 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <4547D37C.8030309-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> > Do any of you gals/guys examine memory usage on long lived linux boxes? > (I used the term long lived in the windows sense of the term , ie more > than 2 weeks :P ) > > 98% of boxes I've managed have never used swap. Never. Your examples all seem to refer to headless servers. My experience is with my desktop, which I use for typical web/mail stuff, plus development. I've recently switched to using Eclipse to build an app based on JBoss. (Yes, it is about as ugly as you might imagine.) I have seen my system use more than the 2GB of physical RAM that I have. Suddenly, I'll switch to check email, or something, and the app doesn't come to the front immediately. Then, I check gkrellm and see I'm using 50% swap. It's usually a sign that something's wrong, but at least I have a chance to fix it before the OOM killer does something I'd disagree with. As for the uptime on this particular machine: I usually leave it on all the time, but it's not on a UPS, and I stay fairly current with the kernel, so I regularly get at least 40 days, and then reboot for some random reason. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists