From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 00:53:51 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:53:51 -0500 Subject: More good news for open source In-Reply-To: <4540F3C6.2000101-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4540F3C6.2000101@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990610311653w27608e09i103fcbe84ea7fcd0@mail.gmail.com> On 10/26/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Oracle ramps up Red Hat support and indemnification: > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/ebusiness/oracle-to-support-indemni.shtml At first glance, it sounds like Oracle is using a new method to undermine Red Hat's primary source of income. The real benefit to the community would be that this directly influences Oracle databases on Linux. This platform is now considered to be the same priority level for fixes/etc as Windows. So MS SQL has more direct competition from Linux+Oracle now. It's a strange mix.. > Millions of pounds of public funding are put into two European projects > designed to promote open source: > http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?id=idgml-34ca5234-e609-4d9d That one's cool.. but it sounds like a lot of that cash will be going to the infrastructure/politics to get awareness out there, rather than to improving the projects and products themselves. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:02:07 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:02:07 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990610311702m65878914o6ac188b9e1c58ac@mail.gmail.com> On 10/28/06, Giles Orr wrote: > I've been a huge fan of cplay for a couple years You are my hero. I've been looking for a decent queuing player for some time now. I just wish I could summon up cplay a second time, to append an item to the playlist.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:16:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:16:13 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990610311716yf81afe9rcf23f51dba06ca92@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/06, David J Patrick wrote: > It's a Linux User Group whose focus is Linux User Groups. > > As yet, it's all in my head, but I've taken the liberty of registering > a few domains > > These will all be sister-sites, with seamless links in between, but > clear and distinct separation of function. OTOH, a single domain, with > sub-domains, may prove the saner way, and the other domains will > simply re-direct. idonno. > > It's insanely ambitious, yes, but if we never start, it'll never happen. > No sites have been set-up, no DNS pointed, no domain hosts chosen and > this is the very first salvo. Do you like the idea ? Is it worth > putting effort into ? Does it exist elsewhere ? * What is the single main problem that you want to solve? * What is the one single primary objective for your endeavour? * How do you distinguish yourself from - or ally yourself to - others who have in the past or are currently persuing similar goals? * Where do you see yourself and this endeavour in 3 years? How is it used, and by who? Example: Problem: It's too difficult for a person to find a LUG. Solution: Like some kind of twisted matchmaking website, provide a directory of official and unofficial LUGs. Generate info, maps+directions and notes based on volunteer data entry. Provide a slick interface for a LUG or interested party to list themselves. Possibly provide hosting for small startup LUGs. Possibly provide a cool custom CMS for meeting notes. By providing that infrastructure, you are then able to set up an interlug search engine, easily create references between meetings across the country, share resources etc. Absorb existing projects by hosting them or redirecting to them for free. For example, a LUG meeting calendar feature which someone else has worked on could find a new cozy home. A semi-private contact database could be maintained, for easier interlug discussions. I.e. be the one place people would logically look if someone asks themselves "I want to set up a conference, and get people all across the country there.. who do I talk to to get user groups involved?" In 3 years - be the #1 hit for "Linux User Group " - absorb the linux self-registration concept and expand it to include a meetup.com-style profile so that Linux users can answer questions like.. -- I want to move to a small town. I want to find one which has Linux users. Where, in the northeast side of BC, are the most Linux users? -- I'm going on vacation.. is there a local LUG I can drop in on? When's their next meeting, and what's it on? --+ Focus yourself more strongly. Without some kind of explanation for what the idea is all about, you yourself won't have enough substance to push on, to drive it forward. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:30:57 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:30:57 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <20061030175729.28039.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061030175729.28039.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200610312030.58444.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 30 October 2006 12:57, Colin McGregor wrote: > Want to turn a PC into a TiVo personal video recorder, > with even more bells and whistles? > Innovation Toronto at present has a limited amount of > free space. If you do want to be at this install fest > please e-mail me I will know how many to expect. > Do you think there would be room for observers? I don't think I will have a new computer ready by Sat. > > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally the > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg decoding, > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > better) video cards). > The new Factory Direct store on Kennedy Rd, Scarborough had a dozen of so Adaptec AVC 2410 in stock this afternnon. The price is within a penny of $50 which is $20 less than the best price I've found for a Hauppauge PVR-150. > > Any questions? > > -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:46:56 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:46:56 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:38 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. > > You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc > > That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You > can then force install the package to restore the file. Unfortunately, it's in the "setup" package is non-relocatable and rpm will not do a force install on it. Surely some one one this list will email me a 20 line text file. Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:50:10 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:50:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <200610312030.58444.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200610312030.58444.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20061101015010.11237.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Merv Curley wrote: > On Monday 30 October 2006 12:57, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Want to turn a PC into a TiVo personal video > recorder, > > with even more bells and whistles? > > > > Innovation Toronto at present has a limited amount > of > > free space. If you do want to be at this install > fest > > please e-mail me I will know how many to expect. > > > Do you think there would be room for observers? I > don't think I will have a > new computer ready by Sat. Be happy to have you, see you Saturday. > > - 1 or more Linux support TV tuner cards (ideally > the > > ones supported under the ivtv drivers see: > > http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page) > > - Video card (ideally one that can do mpeg > decoding, > > such as a Hauppage PVR-350 or the nVidia 5200 (or > > better) video cards). > > > The new Factory Direct store on Kennedy Rd, > Scarborough had a dozen of so > Adaptec AVC 2410 in stock this afternnon. The price > is within a penny of $50 > which is $20 less than the best price I've found for > a Hauppauge PVR-150. Yes, I got one when they were on special at Factory Direct. Decent card, not thrilled with the included remote control, but that can be fixed easily enough. > > Any questions? > > > > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 > Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 01:53:38 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:53:38 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162345616.23333.2.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: err, can't you just manually extract the file out of the rpm? Simon On 10/31/06, Ken Burtch wrote: > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:38 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > > > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. > > > > You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: > > > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc > > > > That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You > > can then force install the package to restore the file. > > Unfortunately, it's in the "setup" package is non-relocatable and rpm > will not do a force install on it. Surely some one one this list will > email me a 20 line text file. > > Ken B. > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:00:42 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:00:42 -0500 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You may be surprised, but for monitoring of your desktop I recommend the system monitor applet for gnome-panel, it shows you how much memory and swap is in use in real time, and also shows you how much of that memory usage is from cache, buffers, applications, and shared memory. You can see clearly how much is "real" memory usage and how much is just disk caching. The applet also can show CPU, HDD, and network usage, and I definitely can't live without it, hehe.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:02:48 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:02:48 -0500 Subject: Stats + Web Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200610312102.48501.softquake@gmail.com> There is rather no something like that around. I mean - I would rather do things by myself, using perl and PHP. Perl is excellent for analysis of text data (I am not teaching you;) HTML needed, combined with JavaScript, is in fact simple, though on a bit higher level than what we mostly see around. Or perhaps I did not quite understand the question. I myself love to play with data and analyze them but right now I could not devote myself to this. zb. On Tuesday 31 October 2006 12:45, Christopher Browne wrote: > Has anybody seen some form of statistical analysis software that is > oriented towards deploying the results on the web? > > We've got performance data sitting in databases where it would be nice > to be able to have some "webby" output of summary statistics, like > percentiles, mean/variation, possibly ANOVA too... > > I know how to use R to do this sort of thing interactively, but it > would be nice to be able to publish it via a web interface. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:03:32 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:03:32 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Err, assuming it's not a generated file, how do you extract a file out of an RPM? I don't see any options for that. It seems like a lot of work... KB On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 20:53 -0500, Simon wrote: > err, can't you just manually extract the file out of the rpm? > > Simon > > On 10/31/06, Ken Burtch wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:38 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > > > > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. > > > > > > You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: > > > > > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc > > > > > > That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You > > > can then force install the package to restore the file. > > > > Unfortunately, it's in the "setup" package is non-relocatable and rpm > > will not do a force install on it. Surely some one one this list will > > email me a 20 line text file. > > > > Ken B. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 > > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:08:11 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:08:11 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <200610312108.11273.softquake@gmail.com> On Tuesday 31 October 2006 20:53, Simon wrote: > err, can't you just manually extract the file out of the rpm? I thought that Ken can not do that... What he "explained" in that cited message. However, the idea of using > > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc perhaps makes sense? After you find, Ken, the rpm filename. maybe you can download it from RH web site and force it to install? ;) Anyway, kind regards, zb. > Simon > > On 10/31/06, Ken Burtch wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:38 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > > > > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. > > > > > > You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: > > > > > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc > > > > > > That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You > > > can then force install the package to restore the file. > > > > Unfortunately, it's in the "setup" package is non-relocatable and rpm > > will not do a force install on it. Surely some one one this list will > > email me a 20 line text file. > > > > Ken B. > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: > > 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: > > ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: > > http://www.pegasoft.ca > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:11:51 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:11:51 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162346612.23333.5.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: I forget what format they are in, but the files in an rpm package are stored in some standard compressed format, but it is possible to extract them with something. Also, if you use gnome, file-roller should open them up for you no problem. Google tells me that you should use gunzip/zcat, but I may not have looked hard enough. On 10/31/06, Ken Burtch wrote: > Err, assuming it's not a generated file, how do you extract a file out > of an RPM? I don't see any options for that. > > It seems like a lot of work... > KB > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 20:53 -0500, Simon wrote: > > err, can't you just manually extract the file out of the rpm? > > > > Simon > > > > On 10/31/06, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:38 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 17:17, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > > > I accidentally deleted /etc/bashrc while installing Fedora Core 6. > > > > > If someone can send me a copy of this file, I would appreciate it. > > > > > > > > You already have the file, albeit in a package. Try this: > > > > > > > > rpm -qf /etc/bashrc > > > > > > > > That will tell you which package contains the file you deleted. You > > > > can then force install the package to restore the file. > > > > > > Unfortunately, it's in the "setup" package is non-relocatable and rpm > > > will not do a force install on it. Surely some one one this list will > > > email me a 20 line text file. > > > > > > Ken B. > > > > > > -- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 > > > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:21:54 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:21:54 -0500 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420610311821u49351e6tfb9717d832444539@mail.gmail.com> > You may be surprised, but for monitoring of your desktop I recommend > the system monitor applet for gnome-panel, it shows you how much > memory and swap is in use in real time, and also shows you how much of > that memory usage is from cache, buffers, applications, and shared > memory. You can see clearly how much is "real" memory usage and how > much is just disk caching. The applet also can show CPU, HDD, and > network usage, and I definitely can't live without it, hehe.. I used to rely on the applet you're referring to, but I find gkrellm vastly superior. See http://members.dslextreme.com/users/billw/gkrellm/gkrellm.html for some screen shots and further details. For those who have never heard of gkrellm and don't want to click the link, it's basically a pluggable stack of system monitors. It's client-server, and you can actually monitor a remote machine with it. Right now, I can see the current date and time, the utilization of each core on my CPU as a percentage and a graph, the number of processes, the number of logged-in users (according to utmp), the fork rate (in processes/sec, I think), the CPU temp, hdd activity, eth0 activity, loopback activity, memory usage (I think it ignores caches and buffers), swap usage, disk space on each mounted partition, number of emails waiting on my server (unread and total), and the uptime. On my laptop, I can also see battery life remaining, and I think it shows me when I'm running on AC, too. A number of times I've been notified of a brute-force attack against my ssh server because of an unusual spike in activity on eth0. Running grkellm slowly teaches you what your system "normally" looks like, and any deviations are readily visible. As you say, Simon, I can't live without it. :P Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:25:11 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:25:11 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <200610312108.11273.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610312108.11273.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Other way round, he can't force it to install, but he _can_ manually extract files from it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:25:52 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:25:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162346612.23333.5.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Ken Burtch wrote: > Err, assuming it's not a generated file, how do you extract a file out > of an RPM? I don't see any options for that. rpm2cpio "$RPMFILE" | cpio -dim You may have to google for rpm2cpio. Personally, I wouldn't bother with /etc/bashrc. The first thing I do when I install any distro is remove all references to /etc/bashrc and any other scripts in /etc (e.g., /etc/profile.d/*). -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:27:50 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:27:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610311821u49351e6tfb9717d832444539-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <20061025143214.GA30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610311821u49351e6tfb9717d832444539@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Ian Petersen wrote: >> You may be surprised, but for monitoring of your desktop I recommend >> the system monitor applet for gnome-panel, it shows you how much >> memory and swap is in use in real time, and also shows you how much of >> that memory usage is from cache, buffers, applications, and shared >> memory. You can see clearly how much is "real" memory usage and how >> much is just disk caching. The applet also can show CPU, HDD, and >> network usage, and I definitely can't live without it, hehe.. > > I used to rely on the applet you're referring to, but I find gkrellm > vastly superior. See > http://members.dslextreme.com/users/billw/gkrellm/gkrellm.html for > some screen shots and further details. > > For those who have never heard of gkrellm and don't want to click the > link, it's basically a pluggable stack of system monitors. It's > client-server, and you can actually monitor a remote machine with it. > Right now, I can see the current date and time, the utilization of > each core on my CPU as a percentage and a graph, the number of > processes, the number of logged-in users (according to utmp), the fork > rate (in processes/sec, I think), the CPU temp, hdd activity, eth0 > activity, loopback activity, memory usage (I think it ignores caches > and buffers), swap usage, disk space on each mounted partition, number > of emails waiting on my server (unread and total), and the uptime. On > my laptop, I can also see battery life remaining, and I think it shows > me when I'm running on AC, too. I cannot see any of that info when I run gkrellm. It is all far to small to be readable. Is there any way of increasing the size? I couldn't find it. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:37:25 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:37:25 -0500 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990610250803v75f2279u9343acc7c805221d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610311821u49351e6tfb9717d832444539@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420610311837n59216aa5rf8754ffb3b7f1233@mail.gmail.com> On 10/31/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > I cannot see any of that info when I run gkrellm. It is all far to > small to be readable. Is there any way of increasing the size? I > couldn't find it. Hit F1 to configure gkrellm, then, in General -> Options, you can change GKrellM width. I think it's in pixels. Under Themes -> Fonts, you can change the fonts for various labels, including the font size. Some of the built-in sensors include a "format string" under the Setup tab. You can use the format string to change the labels in the display so, for example, you can include more information if you're missing something, or you could reduce the information if you can't read everything. For example, under Bultins -> Proc -> Setup, you can show the number of processes and the number of users with this magic format string (it's the default for me): \w88\a$p\f procs\n\e$u\f users Each format string has its own meaning, and the meaning is usually explained on the Info tab. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:38:00 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:38:00 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610311519w199775e4hd0eff42f6994b2f8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420610311519w199775e4hd0eff42f6994b2f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ian Petersen wrote: > I've never done anything with Bind, so if you're married to that > nameserver, you can ignore the rest, but what about trying djbdns? Not married to Bind, just what I was familiar with. I didn't realize djbdns and tinydns were the same thing. I'd heard of tinydns recently, but I was searching for lightweight dns. The data format for djbdns seems much easier to deal with. I'm just about to try installing it. Thanks for the pointer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:51:41 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:51:41 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420610311519w199775e4hd0eff42f6994b2f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420610311851m1ef3b182m1ea7e58d8dbe0e7d@mail.gmail.com> > I didn't realize djbdns and tinydns were the same thing. > I'd heard of tinydns recently, but I was searching for > lightweight dns. djbdns is the name of the whole package. The package includes (at least) two separate programmes: tinydns and dnscache. My understanding is that BIND does everything you could possibly want to do as related to DNS in one (rather large) process. On the other hand, tinydns is _just_ an authoratative nameserver, and dnscache is _just_ a recursive resolver. Dr. Bernstein is rather adamant about adhering to the Unix philosophy of "do one thing and do it well" so each seperable function of BIND is separated in djbdns. > The data format for djbdns seems much easier to deal > with. I'm just about to try installing it. Thanks for > the pointer. No problem. If you run a mail server, you may also be interested in qmail and bincimap (http://www.bincimap.org). Qmail is also by DJB and I find it similarly easy to administer. Bincimap (Binc is not Courier) is an IMAP server designed to work well with qmail. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:54:08 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:54:08 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: Why? I like pretty colours and bash-completion.. On 10/31/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Personally, I wouldn't bother with /etc/bashrc. The first thing I > do when I install any distro is remove all references to > /etc/bashrc and any other scripts in /etc (e.g., /etc/profile.d/*). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:58:51 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:58:51 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1162349931.23854.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 21:25 -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Ken Burtch wrote: > > > Err, assuming it's not a generated file, how do you extract a file out > > of an RPM? I don't see any options for that. > > rpm2cpio "$RPMFILE" | cpio -dim I see. That's why I didn't see any options. > You may have to google for rpm2cpio. > > Personally, I wouldn't bother with /etc/bashrc. The first thing I > do when I install any distro is remove all references to > /etc/bashrc and any other scripts in /etc (e.g., /etc/profile.d/*). If I build my open source software for FC6, I'll need to make sure /etc/bashrc isn't setting anything that might break my configure script. Otherwise, I agree. KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:51:58 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:51:58 -0500 Subject: How much swap? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610311837n59216aa5rf8754ffb3b7f1233-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280610250657j4265be93m77253160758bd650@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610250836x5af90fbewb50be8c22699c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1161837729.11708.264.camel@stan64.site> <4547D37C.8030309@quadratic.net> <7ac602420610311526w39d1a208u9db5e5354bc437af@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610311821u49351e6tfb9717d832444539@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610311837n59216aa5rf8754ffb3b7f1233@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It actually sounds extremely useful merely because of the client/server architecture. For desktop use, I still prefer the system monitor applet, just because it takes up a lot less space. Also, those two screenshots don't seem to show any indication of how much memory usage is cache vs how much is app usage, but I could have missed it, that view was pretty complicated ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 03:56:54 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:56:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Stats + Web Software In-Reply-To: References: <200610312102.48501.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 10/31/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> There is rather no something like that around. I mean - I would rather do >> things by myself, using perl and PHP. Perl is excellent for analysis of >> text >> data (I am not teaching you;) HTML needed, combined with JavaScript, is in >> fact simple, though on a bit higher level than what we mostly see around. >> >> Or perhaps I did not quite understand the question. > > Definitely not. > > Perl is perfectly good at text-munging. > > Which I am totally uninterested in, as the data that I have is > *highly* structured, stored in relational database tables. > > What I'm interested in running various sorts of statistical analyses > on that data. The sorts of things for which one would use R, PSPP, > Octave, Matlab, and the like. > > You can generate some pretty impressive summary graphs with R; it > generates some mighty elegant Postscript output, from the perspective > of looking at the PS code. > > Of course, that's not my interest; what I want is to turn the results > into web pages for deployment via a web server. Convert (using convert from ImageMagick) the PS to PNG (or whatever). -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 03:46:14 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:46:14 -0500 Subject: Stats + Web Software In-Reply-To: <200610312102.48501.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200610312102.48501.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/31/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > There is rather no something like that around. I mean - I would rather do > things by myself, using perl and PHP. Perl is excellent for analysis of text > data (I am not teaching you;) HTML needed, combined with JavaScript, is in > fact simple, though on a bit higher level than what we mostly see around. > > Or perhaps I did not quite understand the question. Definitely not. Perl is perfectly good at text-munging. Which I am totally uninterested in, as the data that I have is *highly* structured, stored in relational database tables. What I'm interested in running various sorts of statistical analyses on that data. The sorts of things for which one would use R, PSPP, Octave, Matlab, and the like. You can generate some pretty impressive summary graphs with R; it generates some mighty elegant Postscript output, from the perspective of looking at the PS code. Of course, that's not my interest; what I want is to turn the results into web pages for deployment via a web server. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/math.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 05:05:05 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 00:05:05 -0500 Subject: Stats + Web Software In-Reply-To: References: <200610312102.48501.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/31/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 10/31/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> There is rather no something like that around. I mean - I would rather do > >> things by myself, using perl and PHP. Perl is excellent for analysis of > >> text > >> data (I am not teaching you;) HTML needed, combined with JavaScript, is in > >> fact simple, though on a bit higher level than what we mostly see around. > >> > >> Or perhaps I did not quite understand the question. > > > > Definitely not. > > > > Perl is perfectly good at text-munging. > > > > Which I am totally uninterested in, as the data that I have is > > *highly* structured, stored in relational database tables. > > > > What I'm interested in running various sorts of statistical analyses > > on that data. The sorts of things for which one would use R, PSPP, > > Octave, Matlab, and the like. > > > > You can generate some pretty impressive summary graphs with R; it > > generates some mighty elegant Postscript output, from the perspective > > of looking at the PS code. > > > > Of course, that's not my interest; what I want is to turn the results > > into web pages for deployment via a web server. > > Convert (using convert from ImageMagick) the PS to PNG (or > whatever). R already does that quite nicely; images are not much of a concern, as it is usually pretty easy to get those transformed automatically. The challenge is in transforming an ANOVA analysis into HTML. Here, for instance, is a textual example of ANOVA: Supposing I have a data set, I might want some summary stats: > mm$Expt <- factor(mm$Expt) > mm$Run <- factor(mm$Run) > fm <- aov(Speed ~ Run + Expt, data=mm) > summary(fm) Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F) Run 19 113344 5965 1.1053 0.363209 Expt 4 94514 23629 4.3781 0.003071 ** Residuals 76 410166 5397 --- Signif. codes: 0 '***' 0.001 '**' 0.01 '*' 0.05 '.' 0.1 ' ' 1 Then, doing an ANOVA on that: > fm0 <- update(fm, . ~ . - Run) > anova(fm0, fm) Analysis of Variance Table Model 1: Speed ~ Expt Model 2: Speed ~ Run + Expt Res.Df RSS Df Sum of Sq F Pr(>F) 1 95 523510 2 76 410166 19 113344 1.1053 0.3632 This is a simple (albeit probably common) sort of case, where we want to compare two categories, and see what statistical evidence there is that, say, performance seems to vary across different periods of time. There will, indeed, be only two degrees of freedom. What I want as "nice HTML" is the output of things like ANOVA analysis, and other sorts of summary statistics. It looks like I simply didn't look hard enough when examining the R docs. There are addons like Rcgi and Rpad which do the sorts of things I'm after, particularly Rpad... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 02:33:06 2006 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:33:06 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061027174551.GS30992-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> On Friday 27 October 2006 13:45, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Virtual machines are too inefficient and mainly make sense when you > don't know what the archtecture is going to be. Most programs you know > are going to run on a specific architecture, so you should simply > compile it for that and not some stupid, bloated, inefficient virtual > machine. I suggest you look up HP's Dynamo research project. IIRC many of those folks went on to work on Sun's Hotspot VM, which is damned fast on long-running processes (like server applications). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 15:16:51 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:16:51 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <4542EC2E.1080605-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4542EC2E.1080605@almatau.com> Message-ID: <20061101151651.GA8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 28, 2006 at 01:35:42AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > It can. Use static methods and forget about objects, think of methods > as of procedures. > Does compiling "hello world" give enough experience to consider Java to > be so bad? :-) No but trying to get 3rd party SDK libraries to compile and run on a system does make you go nuts. Sun has done a terrible job at making it easy to use. They keep changing the language and the associated libraries. I am not sure whether that means they did a bad job in the first place and were trying to fix it, or it they just can't resist feature creep. Both are bad. The problem with sun is that sometimes their inventions are great, and sometimes they suck, and everyone gets sucked into using them either way because you never know, they all sound good, so they just might be. I have yet to be convinced java is a better language than many of the languages that came before it, and so far what I have learned about it makes me fairly sure it is not. Then again this hasn't stopped visualbasic from being popular. Being good isn't required, just make it seem easy and throw lots of advertising behind it and you will convince someone with dicision power that it is what they want it done in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 15:43:56 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:43:56 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610311716yf81afe9rcf23f51dba06ca92-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990610311716yf81afe9rcf23f51dba06ca92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 31/10/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > * What is the single main problem that you want to solve? > * What is the one single primary objective for your endeavour? > * How do you distinguish yourself from - or ally yourself to - others > who have in the past or are currently persuing similar goals? > * Where do you see yourself and this endeavour in 3 years? How is it > used, and by who? > [snip] > --+ > > Focus yourself more strongly. Without some kind of explanation for > what the idea is all about, you yourself won't have enough substance > to push on, to drive it forward. Thank you Sy ! You've raised important points and verbalized much of what we have been thinking. Once the website is up (alpha!) we will be covering much of this ground, and more of you feedback will be invited. damn you're good ! ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:17:52 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:17:52 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <20061101015010.11237.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061101015010.11237.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200611011117.52692.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 31 October 2006 20:50, Colin McGregor wrote: Hopefully I'll be there. Street parking I assume. > > > > The new Factory Direct store on Kennedy Rd, > > Scarborough had a dozen of so > > Adaptec AVC 2410 in stock this afternnon. The price > > is within a penny of $50 > > which is $20 less than the best price I've found for > > a Hauppauge PVR-150. > > Yes, I got one when they were on special at Factory > Direct. Decent card, not thrilled with the included > remote control, but that can be fixed easily enough. > I am hopeful that it is compatible with my Harmony controller and can be added to the list of operations it handles. I am looking for a desktop case which will sit in an audio rack, I assume a quiet power supply is the most essential thing. Recommendations? I have a Zap2it Labs account for Maxemum TV Guide, I assume that is ok for Myth? Or I'll ask these questions on Sat. Regards -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:27:01 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:27:01 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061101162701.GB8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 28, 2006 at 01:23:28PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > Any programmer that only knows one language well isn't worth the time of > day. A decent programmer is going to be able to look at the problem, > determine if OO is a good fit or not, and use any of a number of languages > they know well, both OO and not, to solve the problem. I use many different languages depending on what I am doing. > People that rail against Java - or any language - as not being a good fit > for everything under the sun or for being the latest 'fad' in computers > (despite being 15 years old) seem to have missed something important. I > wouldn't ask a contractor to build me a house with only a hammer, so there's > no reason why programmers should feel compelled to use only a single tool. I just am not convinced that there was anything java was good at. It has gotten better over the years, while causing tons of frustration along the way. > I'm not being a Java apologist here, I'm just glad that I understand both > the OO and the procedural paradigms, and that I know both C and Java (in > addition to others) equally well. I think that these skills and the ability > to know when to apply which ones will make me much more valuable to any > potential employers than a programmer hellbent on sticking to the one > language he/she knows. I think part of what has made my quite anti java is: The initial claims: compile once, run anywhere (no it didn't) The language kept changing and libraries would just not work on a system because it had the previous version of java. This gets really annoying rather quickly, especially when you consider their 'slogan' above. It had no native compiler. I like efficiency. Java seemed to want to do the exact opposite. Waste resources of all users to same some work for the developer. At least there are now a few native compilers for java. I find a lot of runtime libraries are rather rediculous in size. C++ is no exception there. Java, .net, module3, VB, etc all have insanely large runtimes. Sure this makes the developers life easier for some things, but sometimes it seems unacceptable that a developer makes you install 25MB of runtime libs to run a small program that could probably have been done in C with not much more effort and than taken 200KB total. It seems that often the only reason for buying a faster machine with more ram is to make up for a lazy developer. I really couldn't stand java's hype, most of which was really rather unsubstantiated and often downright false. Maybe someday virtual machines will make sense. So far I am not convinced they make sense. Were we not all supposed to be using microkernels by now? What happened to those? And then there were RISC processors. Good concept, except when taken to the extreme, which is why most processors now use some of the concepts but not all. The original goal wasn't practical or realistic. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:39:45 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:39:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth Install Event. In-Reply-To: <200611011117.52692.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200611011117.52692.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20061101163945.31509.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Merv Curley wrote: > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 20:50, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Hopefully I'll be there. Street parking I assume. There is a parking lot on the east side of the building, but with the TV crew I am NOT sure what will be happening in the lot this weekend. So, street parking is a sure bet, but there is a question mark on anything else. > > > The new Factory Direct store on Kennedy Rd, > > > Scarborough had a dozen of so > > > Adaptec AVC 2410 in stock this afternnon. The > price > > > is within a penny of $50 > > > which is $20 less than the best price I've found > for > > > a Hauppauge PVR-150. > > > > Yes, I got one when they were on special at > Factory > > Direct. Decent card, not thrilled with the > included > > remote control, but that can be fixed easily > enough. > > > I am hopeful that it is compatible with my Harmony > controller and can be added > to the list of operations it handles. The Harmony remote should be fine. Remote control stuff is handled via the LIRC program and they can deal with the vast majority of remotes out there. The only remotes that seem to be ... "problematic" with LIRC are ones from Bang & Olufsen. > I am looking for a desktop case which will sit in an > audio rack, I assume a > quiet power supply is the most essential thing. > Recommendations? Quiet is very desirable, how you get there is up to you. Quiet power supply, fanless video card, quiet (or fanless) CPU cooler, and case with sound deadening all have a role to play. > I have a Zap2it Labs account for Maxemum TV Guide, I > assume that is ok for > Myth? Not sure. > Or I'll ask these questions on Sat. > > Regards > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 > Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:44:45 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:44:45 -0500 Subject: introducing metalug In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990610311716yf81afe9rcf23f51dba06ca92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Err.. does alpha mean that you'll be doing some development? I would expect the initial website to be sort of a meta-metalug site, acting as an aid for people who want to collaborate on planning and implementing the real metalug site. Anyway, this sounds like a very cool and useful idea, and I would think that one would want to make this site a feature rich one-stop shop for all your LUG finding and tracking needs, though the original point of this is to facilitate interlug communications, and I suppose that should be remembered. On 11/1/06, David J Patrick wrote: > Once the website is up (alpha!) we will be covering much of this > ground, and more of you feedback will be invited. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:52:37 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061028224755.3df1e868@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061101165237.GC8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 12:38:19AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > OO is, to my mind, merely another programming technique to be applied > when useful, NOT fitting of being the end-all of how systems ought to > be "shaped." > > To my mind, the common focus on "what are the object classes?" or > "show me the UML!" are mistaken replacements for analysis of the > problem that is to be solved. Well I like this quote: "Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California." Edsger Dijkstra And I kind of like objects for some types of programming. His quotes on cobol and basic are lovely too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 16:54:31 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:54:31 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <200610312133.06829.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 09:33:06PM -0500, Andrej Marjan wrote: > I suggest you look up HP's Dynamo research project. IIRC many of those folks > went on to work on Sun's Hotspot VM, which is damned fast on long-running > processes (like server applications). But did anyone ever try compiling it to native code and comparing it? Given the hardware thrown at some java servers, I would hope things run reasonably fast. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 17:52:59 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 12:52:59 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162349931.23854.1.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162349931.23854.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1162403579.30329.89.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 21:58 -0500, Ken Burtch wrote: > If I build my open source software for FC6, I'll need to make > sure /etc/bashrc isn't setting anything that might break my configure > script. Otherwise, I agree. Here is the file that you originally asked for. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- # /etc/bashrc # System wide functions and aliases # Environment stuff goes in /etc/profile # By default, we want this to get set. # Even for non-interactive, non-login shells. umask 022 # are we an interactive shell? if [ "$PS1" ]; then case $TERM in xterm*) if [ -e /etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-xterm ]; then PROMPT_COMMAND=/etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-xterm else PROMPT_COMMAND='echo -ne "\033]0;${USER}@${HOSTNAME%%.*}:${PWD/#$HOME/~}"; echo -ne "\007"' fi ;; screen) if [ -e /etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-screen ]; then PROMPT_COMMAND=/etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-screen else PROMPT_COMMAND='echo -ne "\033_${USER}@${HOSTNAME%%.*}:${PWD/#$HOME/~}"; echo -ne "\033\\"' fi ;; *) [ -e /etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-default ] && PROMPT_COMMAND=/etc/sysconfig/bash-prompt-default ;; esac # Turn on checkwinsize shopt -s checkwinsize [ "$PS1" = "\\s-\\v\\\$ " ] && PS1="[\u@\h \W]\\$ " fi if ! shopt -q login_shell ; then # We're not a login shell # Need to redefine pathmunge, it get's undefined at the end of /etc/profile pathmunge () { if ! echo $PATH | /bin/egrep -q "(^|:)$1($|:)" ; then if [ "$2" = "after" ] ; then PATH=$PATH:$1 else PATH=$1:$PATH fi fi } for i in /etc/profile.d/*.sh; do if [ -r "$i" ]; then . $i fi done unset i unset pathmunge fi # vim:ts=4:sw=4 From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 18:04:27 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 13:04:27 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162404267.30329.100.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 17:29 -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > I know I've got a few pieces to work out, > but what I'd like advice on is how to automate > the Bind/DNS configuration. You could setup BIND to support dynamic DNS and use the nsupdate program to perform the update from the web signon. Ideally you would use a subdomain to begin with (e.g. baz.users.foobar.com) for better security. Use dnssec-keygen to generate a key (dnssec-keygen -a HMAC-MD5 -b 512 -n host foobarweb) and then setup that key in named.conf: key "foobarweb" { algorithm hmac-md5; secret "lakshdfhjasdfjal;dfjl;ajfl;ajdf;jkadf"; } Then setup the zone: zone "users.foobar.com" { type master; # use a "dyn" directory that is writable by bind file "dyn/users.foobar.com"; update-policy { grant foobarweb name ....; }; }; -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 18:18:52 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:18:52 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <7ac602420610311851m1ef3b182m1ea7e58d8dbe0e7d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420610311519w199775e4hd0eff42f6994b2f8@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420610311851m1ef3b182m1ea7e58d8dbe0e7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061101181852.GE8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 09:51:41PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > djbdns is the name of the whole package. The package includes (at > least) two separate programmes: tinydns and dnscache. My > understanding is that BIND does everything you could possibly want to > do as related to DNS in one (rather large) process. On the other > hand, tinydns is _just_ an authoratative nameserver, and dnscache is > _just_ a recursive resolver. Dr. Bernstein is rather adamant about > adhering to the Unix philosophy of "do one thing and do it well" so > each seperable function of BIND is separated in djbdns. Too bad he has that license concept, and believes in microsoft filesystem layout rather than unix style layout. Might be worth looking at otherwise. To me it is a 'do one thing and do it exactly my way'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 18:27:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:27:13 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> References: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> Message-ID: <20061101182713.GF8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 02:44:48PM -0500, Robert F. Kennedy wrote: > I'm interested in this workshop too. BTW, Factory direct has a few of the > AVC-2410 see http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810 but > they are now $49. Where can the coupon be found, I checked this weeks flyer > - nothing? > > Can someone explain what is the difference between video card and TV tuner? > Are some cards a combination of video and TV tuner? A video card sends output to your monitor/tv/whatever. A tuner card received cable or off the air tv signals, and other video signals, and encodes them, thus providing an input. So video card is output, tuner card is input. ATI's all in wonder series do both, although support under linux has never been that great, and I always have had the impression that they end up being both a worse video card and a worse tuner as a result of being combined. It is also easier to upgrade when they are seperate. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 18:31:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:31:54 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880610302101j65382170rc1e72cf4952fea4b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028013127.46621.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <003101c6fb92$b174b2d0$6b02a8c0@xp64> <32f6a8880610302101j65382170rc1e72cf4952fea4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061101183154.GG8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 12:01:24AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey All, > > > Please include this in your workshop. > > > How to set up mythtv to skip commercials I thought by default it would flag commercials. Simple to enable either way. chapter skip (home/end) skips commercials when they occour. I tried auto skip, but sometimes it detects them wrong so doing it manually with one click seems better. > how to seperate tv shows with a regular cable analog on one and digital on > the other so you can record 2 shows or watch show and record another at the > same time. Well one tuner card means one recording. I have a dual tuner (PVR500) which means I can record two shows at once from cable. Recording digital cable requires a digital cable terminal and an ir blaster to control it as well as a tuner card with svideo in to connect to the digital cable box. THe tuner card can then either record what the digital cable box is tuned to, or it can record an analog cable channel. You can also record HDTV if you get an off the air ATSC compatible tuner card, and an antenna capable of picking up the HDTV signals broadcast in toronto (there are some). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 18:36:31 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:36:31 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: References: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20061101183631.GH8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 12:07:47PM -0400, Simon wrote: > Can anyone recommend a cheap way of acquiring a QAMwhatever compatible > card? I already have an ordinary TV tuner > (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008750&cid=CC.344), > but I'm ever so slightly curious about getting HDTV input, mostly from > a geek perspective, since I basically don't watch TV. Regardless, if > anybody here has some experience shopping around for digital tuner > cards, it would be great for them to share it. Rogers digital cable uses QAM, but all the HDTV channels are encrypted, so I doubt the card would do you that much good. Unless you somehow have a source for getting decryption keys. Over the air HDTV simply requries an ATSC compatible tuner card and the appropriate antenna. Does that winfast card work with linux? It sounds like it expects the cpu to do all encoding, unlike the ivtv cards that do mpeg2 in hardware. Probably means a much better cpu is required. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 19:21:47 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:21:47 -0500 Subject: cfengine Message-ID: <20061101192147.GE6133@watson-wilson.ca> Do any of you have any experiences with cfengine that you would like to share? I'm considering using it and like to know about any caveats before hand. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 24 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 19:43:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:43:43 +0000 Subject: cfengine In-Reply-To: <20061101192147.GE6133-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061101192147.GE6133@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 11/1/06, Neil Watson wrote: > Do any of you have any experiences with cfengine that you would like to > share? I'm considering using it and like to know about any caveats > before hand. - We have some security-paranoid sysadmins who have been very concerned about the fact that cfengine likes to do things "as root." They'd sorta like it if it used "sudo" to do those things, although there is the concommittant problem that all you're doing, in that case, is to shove the scary security complexity into the sudo configuration. - Monitoring that it's working *and doing what you imagined it should have been doing* is a bit challenging. - People have a hard time wrapping their heads around how nondeterministic it is. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 21:28:06 2006 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:28:06 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061101165431.GD8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45491166.7070008@pobox.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 09:33:06PM -0500, Andrej Marjan wrote: > >> I suggest you look up HP's Dynamo research project. IIRC many of those folks >> went on to work on Sun's Hotspot VM, which is damned fast on long-running >> processes (like server applications). >> > > But did anyone ever try compiling it to native code and comparing it? > Given the hardware thrown at some java servers, I would hope things run > reasonably fast. > Seriously, look up Dynamo. Here's a simple introduction: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/dynamo/dynamo-1.html In a nutshell: running natively compiled code through a smart optimizing VM can make it faster than native. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 21:27:55 2006 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:27:55 -0500 Subject: Videos from the Symposium Message-ID: <200611011627.56643.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello everyone, As some of you know, I did one of the keynote addresses at the fifth annual Free Software and Open Source Symposium which took place at Seneca College (York University campus) last week. My talk was called "The Selling of Linux and Open Source : Do We Suck at This or What?". The symposium was a major success this year with 300 attendees (a sell out crowd) vs just over a hundred last year. The symposium also ran two days instead of just one. If you are curious and you have a few megabytes to spare in disk space, you can download videos of my talk (and the other talks as well) from the following address : http://cs.senecac.on.ca/fsoss/2006/recordings/ There are two versions of my presentation, with one labeled "wide angle". So far, that's the only one I've seen but I do know the non-wide-angle video is quite a bit larger. Enjoy, and take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and 2nd eds) ? "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" ? "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 19:42:32 2006 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:42:32 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> I'd like to buy one of the Sharp units listed below. 1. If anyone has one and would like to sell it, please contact me. (Older Zaurus units are OK too.) 2. If you know of WHERE IN TORONTO I can get Sharp Zaurus units *OR* the other units listed below, especially the OQO or Samsung Q1, please let me know. I especially like the idea that one can run Linux or similar on the Zaurus units. My MAIN reason for getting one of these PDA sized units is to display stock market charts on the screen. This likely means "rolling my own" apps to do that, and having Linux on the Zaurus units. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth would be nice, if possible. Sharp Zaurus - SL-5600 - SL-6000W with built-in 802.11b Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. - SL-C3200 (the new OpenBSD 4.0 available on it!) I'm interested in where to buy these in Toronto also (only for displaying stock charts - I don't give a damn if these units also wash dishes or slice bread - I have no interestin using them for that...) - OQO - Samsung Q1 - Raon Vega 1.06 lbs The Raon Vega is the smallest Windows XP machine in the world. - Sony Vaio UX 1.15 lbs The 1.15 lb Sony Vaio UX series features a 1.2ghz Core Solo, 1GB RAM, and optional 32GB solid state or 80gb HDD. 32GB solid state and 1gb RAM models now in stock! Note: The only units I'm interested in are HANDHELD PDAs. Usually one lb. or less. Stan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 22:06:20 2006 From: brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org (Angelina Carlton) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:06:20 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990610311702m65878914o6ac188b9e1c58ac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Sy Ali's message of "Tue\, 31 Oct 2006 20\:02\:07 -0500") References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990610311702m65878914o6ac188b9e1c58ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87ac3ax1nn.fsf@magma.ca> "Sy Ali" writes: > On 10/28/06, Giles Orr wrote: >> I've been a huge fan of cplay for a couple years > > You are my hero. I've been looking for a decent queuing player for > some time now. > > I just wish I could summon up cplay a second time, to append an item > to the playlist.. You can do this. Lets say you have a playlist of one album. Press TAB and you will find yourself in the filesystem, navigate to what you want to play next (ctrl-s to incremental search, emacs style) and then press `a' to add that folder or file to the playlist. Keep going like that adding more songs or just hit TAB again to return to the playlist. Most of this can be found with the `h' key for help. Incidentally, I never liked the way cplay quits, you need to press `Q' to quit without confirmation, and not the simpler, and faster `q' You can alter this by editing /usr/bin/cplay and flipping the following values. keymap.bind('Q', app.quit, ()) keymap.bind('q', self.command_quit, ()) -- -----Angelina Carlton----- orchid on irc.freenode.net brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org web:bzgirl.bakadigital.com -------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 22:47:40 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:47:40 +0000 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <45491166.7070008-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45491166.7070008@pobox.com> Message-ID: On 11/1/06, Andrej Marjan wrote: > In a nutshell: running natively compiled code through a smart optimizing > VM can make it faster than native. There are other lessons also available... CMUCL contains not one, but TWO compilers: - One, called Python, which generates optimized binaries for several architectures. - Another which generates a bytecode-compiled form which is very compact; about 1/6 the size of machine code. (After all, machine code has to do lots of register allocation work as well as code alignment) The bytecode form isn't as quick, but it is SMALL. You can thus partition your application into portions that are compiled in different fashions. Generally, you'd use bytecode for things that run infrequently, and compile to machine code for tight loops that you might even want to expand by loop unrolling and such. Horses for courses... The infrequently used code doesn't chew much memory, leaving more for more useful stuff. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/bytecode.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 22:50:11 2006 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:50:11 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061101162701.GB8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061027184342.GT30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061101162701.GB8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061101175011.oknyazy1skkkw48g@pochta.almatau.com> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > On Sat, Oct 28, 2006 at 01:23:28PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: >> Any programmer that only knows one language well isn't worth the time of >> day. A decent programmer is going to be able to look at the problem, >> determine if OO is a good fit or not, and use any of a number of languages >> they know well, both OO and not, to solve the problem. > > I use many different languages depending on what I am doing. Right, just like any other tool, every language has its own purpose. > >> People that rail against Java - or any language - as not being a good fit >> for everything under the sun or for being the latest 'fad' in computers >> (despite being 15 years old) seem to have missed something important. I >> wouldn't ask a contractor to build me a house with only a hammer, so there's >> no reason why programmers should feel compelled to use only a single tool. > > I just am not convinced that there was anything java was good at. It > has gotten better over the years, while causing tons of frustration > along the way. Did you have a chance to work on an application, which is able to run on more than one server at once to provide user sessions and database connections failover and "smart" load balancing (for example, to avoid creating new user sessions on a server which is loaded more than others)? These useful features are widely used today. What technology would you recommend to implement such a requirement? > ... > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 1 23:58:45 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:58:45 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <87ac3ax1nn.fsf-J4oS66wZXds@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <1f13df280610282044h38bb33ddp702fe8888cb7f655@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990610311702m65878914o6ac188b9e1c58ac@mail.gmail.com> <87ac3ax1nn.fsf@magma.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990611011558le0d5a5eud7dd8b6659db3ef6@mail.gmail.com> On 11/1/06, Angelina Carlton wrote: > > I just wish I could summon up cplay a second time, to append an item > > to the playlist.. > > You can do this. Lets say you have a playlist of one album. Press TAB I learned all that. But I like my simple GUI program, and I'm used to summoning xmms --enqueue (filename) to append items into its playlist. I should just get used to its internal stuff.. it's actually decent to work with. Finding songs is a bit odd, but I like it well enough. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 01:23:53 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:23:53 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <45454878.7010502-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <45454878.7010502@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061102012353.GA20090@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:34:00PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote > Walter Dnes wrote: > > I have one other need for an audioplayer. I'm a paying subscriber of > > Live365, and I need a simple audio player to launch and play audio > > streams direct off a .pls file. Windows-Media-Player-wannabees like > > amarok need not apply. > That's a shame, because I use amarok all the time to play Live365 feeds. ========================================================================== [m3000][root][~] emerge --ask amarok These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libcdio-0.77 USE="-cddb -minimal -nls -nocxx" [ebuild N ] media-video/vcdimager-0.7.23 USE="-minimal -xml" [ebuild N ] media-libs/xine-lib-1.1.2-r2 USE="X a52 aac alsa dvd flac mng opengl sdl theora vcd vorbis win32codecs xv -aalib (-altivec) -arts -asf -debug -directfb -dts -dxr3 -esd -fbcon -gnome -imagemagick -ipv6 -libcaca -mad -modplug -nls -oss -samba -speex -v4l -vidix -xinerama -xvmc" VIDEO_CARDS="-i810 -nvidia -via" [ebuild N ] dev-ruby/ruby-config-0.3.1 [ebuild N ] dev-lang/ruby-1.8.5 USE="threads -cjk -debug -doc -examples -ipv6 -socks5 -tk" [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.6-r3 USE="gif opengl -cups -debug -doc -examples -firebird -immqt -immqt-bc -ipv6 -mysql -nas -nis -odbc -postgres -sqlite -xinerama" [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libpcre-6.6 USE="-doc" [ebuild N ] kde-base/kde-env-3-r4 [ebuild N ] app-admin/gamin-0.1.7 USE="-debug -doc" [ebuild N ] kde-base/kdelibs-3.5.2-r6 USE="alsa tiff -acl -arts -cups -debug -doc -jpeg2k -kdeenablefinal -kdehiddenvisibility -kerberos -legacyssl -openexr -spell -ssl -xinerama -zeroconf" [ebuild N ] media-sound/amarok-1.4.3-r1 USE="aac opengl -arts -debug -ifp -ipod -kde -mysql -njb -noamazon -postgres -real -visualization -xinerama -xmms" LINGUAS="-az -bg -br -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et -fi -fr -ga -gl -he -hi -hu -is -it -ja -ka -km -ko -lt -ms -nb -nl -nn -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -rw -sl -sr -sr at Latn -sv -ta -tg -th -tr -uk -uz -zh_CN -zh_TW" Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No] No Quitting. ========================================================================== So, on my system, amarok would require adding dev-libs/libcdio, media-video/vcdimager, media-libs/xine-lib, dev-ruby/ruby-config, dev-lang/ruby, x11-libs/qt, dev-libs/libpcre, kde-base/kde-env, app-admin/gamin, and kde-base/kdelibs... all for a streaming audioplayer? Someone who already has Xine and KDE installed and is a Ruby developer might not see so much additional baggage, but I like to keep my system lean-and-mean. I guess I'll miss out on the super eye-candy and funky visualizations provided by amarok. I'm typing this post in an 80x48 textmode console (tty01), with Live365 running in an X session (tty10). I run email (mutt) and usenet news (slrn) in real textmode. I have urlview launch a firefox tab for interesting URLs. {ALT-F10} to view the web or a spreadsheet or a picture, and then {CTRL-ALT-F1} to go back to email or {CTRL-ALT-F2} to go back to news. I reserve tty11 for a second user account with a 480x360 pixel session, for videos from Google, Youtube, etc. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 01:40:55 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:40:55 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. Message-ID: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Duh... nice website youse got there Mr. Webmaster. Now youse wouldn't want something terrible to happen; like your website might load slowly or not load at all. For only a few thousand per month in protection... err I mean "transit tariff", we can see to it that nothing terrible happens to your website. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtneutrality1101/BNStory/Technology/home http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtvideotron01/BNStory/Technology/home -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 01:44:40 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:44:40 -0500 Subject: Is there a simple streaming audio (.pls) player? In-Reply-To: <20061102012353.GA20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061028231637.GA25220@waltdnes.org> <45454878.7010502@telly.org> <20061102012353.GA20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990611011744g665487d4oaa39ad84197ff517@mail.gmail.com> On 11/1/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm typing this post in an 80x48 textmode console (tty01), with > Live365 running in an X session (tty10). I run email (mutt) and usenet > news (slrn) in real textmode. I have urlview launch a firefox tab for > interesting URLs. {ALT-F10} to view the web or a spreadsheet or a > picture, and then {CTRL-ALT-F1} to go back to email or {CTRL-ALT-F2} to > go back to news. I reserve tty11 for a second user account with a > 480x360 pixel session, for videos from Google, Youtube, etc. I would have loved you a few years ago, but as a Ruby developer, who also uses KDE and Xine I'm a bit shocked. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 01:59:57 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 20:59:57 -0500 Subject: advice and pointers on Apache, Bind/DNS, Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1162404267.30329.100.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1162404267.30329.100.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: John Van Ostrand wrote: > You could setup BIND to support dynamic DNS and use the nsupdate program > to perform the update from the web signon. I had a quick look at the nsupdate - since I had tinydns running but lost it, when I had to reinstall Ubuntu. I think I'll stick with tinydns, since the configuration seems to be so much simpler. (Athough, I had to do a dance to get it installed, due to the author's quirks which prevent it from being part of debian). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 02:47:48 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:47:48 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: Have you thought about getting a Nokia 770? Most people I've talked to haven't heard of it. 800x480 screen size 250MHz (I think) TI OMAP 1710, ARM core + C55x DSP + other stuff 802.11g wireless + Bluetooth speaker, mic, 3.5mm audio jack, RS-MMC slot, which you can find 2GB cards for (need a kernel patch to go above 1GB, but this works fine, I have a 2GB card) On top of that hardware, it runs a derivative of Debian, has apt and a GUI frontend to apt, and comes with a couple of closed-source components, like the web browser. The other reason why I mention it is that at $350 USD, it's cheaper than most or all of the handhelds you mention. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 03:45:08 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:45:08 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611011945i4b2528a6ua3ae064ef3ebbd84@mail.gmail.com> I did some googling, and I think I've found the web site for the Nokia 770 OS: http://maemo.org/ Pretty cool looking. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 04:52:34 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:52:34 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611011945i4b2528a6ua3ae064ef3ebbd84-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <7ac602420611011945i4b2528a6ua3ae064ef3ebbd84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yep, that's it... has a list of ported apps as well as a list of repositories, instructions for how to set up a development environment, a restricted section with the closed source stuff, etc.. On 11/1/06, Ian Petersen wrote: > I did some googling, and I think I've found the web site for the Nokia > 770 OS: http://maemo.org/ > > Pretty cool looking. > > Ian > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 05:10:49 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:10:49 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102014055.GB20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 01/11/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > Duh... nice website youse got there Mr. Webmaster. Now youse wouldn't > want something terrible to happen; like your website might load slowly > or not load at all. For only a few thousand per month in protection... > err I mean "transit tariff", we can see to it that nothing terrible > happens to your website. oh MAN that's grim ! and further frustrating because there's a lot of context to explain, before it becomes clear (to less net-savvy folk than you, dear reader) why net-neutrality is such a big deal. get this one OUT there ! thanks Walter, djp > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtneutrality1101/BNStory/Technology/home > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtvideotron01/BNStory/Technology/home > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 05:25:33 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:25:33 -0500 Subject: MythTV install workshop? In-Reply-To: <20061101183631.GH8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027114217.78003.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000e01c6f9cb$3c5ddee0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20061101183631.GH8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Not sure about the CPU usage, the box it's in is a 1.4GHz Sempron, which is great compared to sub 1GHz PIII CPUs, and like I said in a later message, the card does work fine with Linux, including remote, but a module parameter is required for bttv, otherwise it won't be very useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 05:50:16 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:50:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102014055.GB20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> I just wrote my MP and told him I support net neutrality. > Duh... nice website youse got there Mr. Webmaster. Now youse wouldn't > want something terrible to happen; like your website might load slowly > or not load at all. For only a few thousand per month in protection... > err I mean "transit tariff", we can see to it that nothing terrible > happens to your website. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtneutrality1101/BNStory/Technology/home > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtvideotron01/BNStory/Technology/home > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 11:41:06 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:41:06 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102014055.GB20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c@mail.gmail.com> I know, they could do the same with all services! "I don't like people using our telephone lines equally.. we should make it so that rich people using our telephone services are charged by the minute" "Certain conversations should cost more than others.." "I don't like how people walking our streets do so equally.. we should mug people for their jewellery" ... What's fun is that invisible routing and throttling technologies have existed for some time now, at least in the states. I recall one ISP being interviewed who admitted to being able to transparently route traffic so that the source/destination can't tell, but that they "weren't currently using it". Yeah, great. I still like the idea of packet radio and phone networks more than this interweeb thing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 11:53:47 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:53:47 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162468427.27687.5.camel@neo> There are always consequences to actions, such as this one. If they will carry on filtering actual sites, media streams, they will loose their common carrier status, which means that if someone will be charged with some sort of net crime, they will have to share the burden, since they suppose to be "in control" of their network. Come on, just raise prices on your services if you want to get rich. But that would be too little, they'd like to throw the pie in your face and eat it before they have thrown it. Internet locates damage and routes around it. etc etc. ? ???, 02/11/2006 ? 06:41 -0500, Sy Ali ?????: > I know, they could do the same with all services! > > "I don't like people using our telephone lines equally.. we should > make it so that rich people using our telephone services are charged > by the minute" > > "Certain conversations should cost more than others.." > > "I don't like how people walking our streets do so equally.. we should > mug people for their jewellery" > > ... > > What's fun is that invisible routing and throttling technologies have > existed for some time now, at least in the states. I recall one ISP > being interviewed who admitted to being able to transparently route > traffic so that the source/destination can't tell, but that they > "weren't currently using it". Yeah, great. > > I still like the idea of packet radio and phone networks more than > this interweeb thing. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 12:20:01 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:20:01 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611020720.01468.rob@luckdancing.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 06:41, Sy Ali wrote: > > I still like the idea of packet radio and phone networks more than > this interweeb thing. Time to dust off the Fidotech, hey :-) Rob http://www.luckdancong.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 12:35:46 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:35:46 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <200611020720.01468.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990611020341g1a92310cu3722a90dbc3c47c@mail.gmail.com> <200611020720.01468.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611020435v447cb690p5f272cdc463135aa@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/06, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Thursday 02 November 2006 06:41, Sy Ali wrote: > > > > I still like the idea of packet radio and phone networks more than > > this interweeb thing. > > Time to dust off the Fidotech, hey :-) Let's start up an international amateur radio internet. =) (with some late-night sattelite-bandwidth rentals for downloads) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 13:20:13 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:20:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion Message-ID: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My take on the game Quake 4 for Linux can be seen in the November issue of Tux Magazine, pages 51 - 53. Enjoy. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 14:47:57 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:47:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061102144757.82670.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Simon wrote: > Have you thought about getting a Nokia 770? Most > people I've talked to > haven't heard of it. GTALug Board member Seneca Cunningham owns a Nokia 770 and I would gather quite likes it. > 800x480 screen size > 250MHz (I think) TI OMAP 1710, ARM core + C55x DSP + > other stuff > 802.11g wireless + Bluetooth > speaker, mic, 3.5mm audio jack, RS-MMC slot, which > you can find 2GB > cards for (need a kernel patch to go above 1GB, but > this works fine, I > have a 2GB card) > > On top of that hardware, it runs a derivative of > Debian, has apt and a > GUI frontend to apt, and comes with a couple of > closed-source > components, like the web browser. The other reason > why I mention it > is that at $350 USD, it's cheaper than most or all > of the handhelds > you mention. > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 16:43:08 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:43:08 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102014055.GB20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1162485788.4002.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> "The smallest bloggers can be accessed as easily and as quickly as the websites of major corporations." The parasites and freeloaders feel threatened. They can no longer dominate various markets. RickT On Wed, 2006-11-01 at 20:40 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Duh... nice website youse got there Mr. Webmaster. Now youse wouldn't > want something terrible to happen; like your website might load slowly > or not load at all. For only a few thousand per month in protection... > err I mean "transit tariff", we can see to it that nothing terrible > happens to your website. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtneutrality1101/BNStory/Technology/home > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtvideotron01/BNStory/Technology/home "This really isn't that hard. If you're going to kill someone there isn't much reason to get all worked up about it and angry -- you just pull the trigger. Angry discussions before hand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 17:26:22 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:26:22 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1162485788.4002.2.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1162485788.4002.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611020926o3703149epa9e9c8dcdecb4ebb@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > "The smallest bloggers can be accessed as easily and as quickly as the > websites of major corporations." > > The parasites and freeloaders feel threatened. They can no longer > dominate various markets. I disagree with that notion. And what the heck do you mean by "dominate various markets" ? So a popular blogger is dominating something? They're not taking away from the potential for others.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 17:40:13 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:40:13 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611020926o3703149epa9e9c8dcdecb4ebb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1162485788.4002.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1e55af990611020926o3703149epa9e9c8dcdecb4ebb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162489213.4002.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I guess I could have been more exact... Parasites and freeloaders (big business) ;) On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 12:26 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/2/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > "The smallest bloggers can be accessed as easily and as quickly as the > > websites of major corporations." > > > > The parasites and freeloaders feel threatened. They can no longer > > dominate various markets. > > I disagree with that notion. And what the heck do you mean by > "dominate various markets" ? So a popular blogger is dominating > something? They're not taking away from the potential for others.. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 18:09:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:09:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611020435v447cb690p5f272cdc463135aa-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611020435v447cb690p5f272cdc463135aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061102180941.23979.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/2/06, Rob Sutherland > wrote: > > On Thursday 02 November 2006 06:41, Sy Ali wrote: > > > > > > I still like the idea of packet radio and phone > networks more than > > > this interweeb thing. > > > > Time to dust off the Fidotech, hey :-) > > Let's start up an international amateur radio > internet. =) Been done. Guess I should blow (shovel?) the dust off my 1,200 BPS packet radio modem and fire up my 25 watt 2 meter transceiver ... those were the days... Still have my licence (VE3ZAA). I remember talking to one Toronto area amateur radio operator who via packet radio was getting 25 second ping times into the Toronto Free-Net (ok, so his connection was going via a router in New Zealand, but ...). > (with some late-night sattelite-bandwidth rentals > for downloads) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 18:31:50 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:31:50 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102014055.GB20090-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200611021331.50868.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 01 November 2006 20:40, Walter Dnes wrote: > Duh... nice website youse got there Mr. Webmaster. Now youse > wouldn't want something terrible to happen; like your website might > load slowly or not load at all. For only a few thousand per month > in protection... err I mean "transit tariff", we can see to it that > nothing terrible happens to your website. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtneutr >ality1101/BNStory/Technology/home > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061101.gtvideo >tron01/BNStory/Technology/home This makes an argument for taking control over the last mile from the two monopolists, Rogers and Bell and their counterparts in other parts of Canada, by creating community fiber projects everywhere. A good place to learn about this is here: and here: . We should not be fooled by promises of faster access, as Bell is making, where they're test marketing 18Mb/s access in a few places. What is conveniently omitted is that the upload rate is capped at a ridiculous 1Mb/s. That's not "broadband". As long as we allow these media companies that pose as ISPs to be the choke point on the last mile, they will never behave like they would be forced to in a truly competitive environment. Force them to meet us at designated exchange points where they can compete with other bandwidth providers for our business. They'll either compete or bow out, both of which are good outcomes for the market. If we go by this: , we probably have a $20 billion scandal of our own here in Canada, if we follow the usual 10:1 rule-of-thumb for comparisons between the U.S.A. and Canada. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 19:08:44 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:08:44 -0500 Subject: cfengine In-Reply-To: <20061101192147.GE6133-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20061101192147.GE6133@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20061102190844.GB13847@watson-wilson.ca> Is anyone using or considering using Puppet instead of Cfengine? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 25 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 20:41:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 15:41:29 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:50:16AM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: > I just wrote my MP and told him I support net neutrality. Too bad net neutrality kills a bunch of neat applications for the internet, like streaming video, VoIP, and many others. ToS is part of the internet, although not often used that much. True net neutrality means ToS can never be used for anything. On the other hand wouldn't it be nice if rogers wasn't allowed to slow down people's bittorrent traffic? I do not buy the argument of the providers that google should be paying them. No that isn't the idea. I as a customer should be paying you for the internet access and traffic I have. Google should be paying their own provider for the internet access and traffic they cause there. How the large tier1 ISPs decide how to charge each other or not, is a different issue. If a rogers or bell customer wants to get data from google, why should google pay for that, while if they decide to send a ton of photos to some friends, there is no extra charge for that? The telecom companies are simply jelous of google's success at making money from adds somehow, and want a piece of the pie, while of course not really wanting to raise prices for their customers (although rogers recently did for some services). So they want money for improvements so they can claim to have better service than their competition, but they don't want to pay for it and they don't want to raise prices (which makes you look bad compared to a cheaper competitor) so instead they want to go after google, because they have lots of money, and are popular. I don't think net neutrality is the right thing to put into law. I think I should be able to go ask a provider to get me a garuanteed 1Mbit from here to montreal for a price through the internet. If that is how I want to run phones using VoIP I should be able to. I don't think they should be allowed to block data, but I do think they should be allowed to sell higher quality connections with ensured throughput for certain traffic, while everything else can just do the usual first come first served best effort thing it usually does with the unused bandwidth. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:01:55 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:01:55 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102204129.GI8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20611021401h54d1dc47p4db25fa9d75be012@mail.gmail.com> > I don't think they > should be allowed to block data, but I do think they should be allowed > to sell higher quality connections with ensured throughput for certain > traffic, while everything else can just do the usual first come first > served best effort thing it usually does with the unused bandwidth. I think the scary thought here is the slippery slope argument. If ISPs take active charge of various providers' traffic, who's to say they won't hold some sites hostage for cash? How could you ever know backroom deals weren't happening? Fact is, once it becomes okay for ISPs to run rampant with their filters, freedom will be gone. Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 21:49:13 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:49:13 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102204129.GI8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len: while I agree with you about your bandwidth needs, I disagree about the necessity of buying QoS guarantees at places other than your point of connection to the internet. The beauty of the internet in its current state, which really should be preserved by something like net neutrality, is that you don't need to buy such a guarantee, if you and your partner have sufficient bandwidth at the endpoints, the connection will end up being that fast anyhow. The real legal issue with net neutrality legislation, IMO, is wording it so that it doesn't hamper good things, like ISP caching (which I currently understand as being a good thing... someone can correct me if they think otherwise) Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:26:14 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:26:14 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership Message-ID: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I'm as shocked as many others... RickT We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about it. Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, for a special CEO-Update Webcast at http://www.novell.com/webcast -- "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:31:59 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:31:59 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20611021401h54d1dc47p4db25fa9d75be012-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20611021401h54d1dc47p4db25fa9d75be012@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061102223159.GJ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 05:01:55PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I think the scary thought here is the slippery slope argument. If ISPs > take active charge of various providers' traffic, who's to say they > won't hold some sites hostage for cash? How could you ever know > backroom deals weren't happening? Fact is, once it becomes okay for > ISPs to run rampant with their filters, freedom will be gone. Well they are already doing it, except only to supposedly save themselves some bandwidth, not to charge extra money. I have no problem with increasing priority of some traffic. What I do have a problem with is targeting specific traffic for artificially lowered throughput (not limited by available bandwidth, but by some active slowdown, aka what rogers does to bittorrent and other such systems). Saying that VoIP traffic should have higher priority sounds good to me, as long as the stuff you are not increasing priority is treated equally. So far it seems most net neutrality talks wants to ensure that no prioritization of any kind can be done. I am all for not allowing artificial choking of traffic, but I am also for allowing prioritizing certain types of traffic that really have a need for fast delivery. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:38:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:38:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162506374.4002.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20061102223841.88106.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm as shocked as many others... > RickT I remember seeing a history book with an editorial cartoon from the early days of World War II, in which Hitler and Stalin are insulting each other (in polite diplomatic language) as they both stomp on a map of Poland. This seems similar. Yes, there is now a Novell-Microsoft deal, and yes for the moment they are working together. This is not a match that will/can last, the two will achive what ever short term goal(s) they hope to get (hurt Red Hat?) and then the weapons will come out again. > We have some exciting new developments in our Novell > SUSE Linux > Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first > to hear about it. > Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM > Eastern Standard Time, > for a special CEO-Update Webcast at > http://www.novell.com/webcast > -- > "We need to slaughter Novell before they get > stronger." > -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 > e-mail (as revealed in > Caldera v. Microsoft) > http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:48:59 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:48:59 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162506374.4002.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> shocked -- yup!! one step closer to the worlds most popular OS in 5-6 year to be ...... Microsoft Linux ........ nice that Linux final wins, just don't like this new vendor :( (not a vendor yet, but give it time!). at least I can use Windows Forms (with peace of mind) now in Mono, for client side mass deployment. a lot of hippies are going to bail from SUSE (for this), but Mono is just going to explode in use, if this press anouncement stands up. I will probably just appreciate this as just showing how weak MS is getting, and not judging SUSE/Novell to harshly on it. Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. (the programmer in me speaking here) -tl On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 17:26 -0500, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm as shocked as many others... > RickT > > We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux > Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about it. > Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > for a special CEO-Update Webcast at http://www.novell.com/webcast -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:45:24 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:45:24 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162506374.4002.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <200611021745.27246.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:26, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm as shocked as many others... > RickT > > We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux > Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about > it. Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard > Time, for a special CEO-Update Webcast at > http://www.novell.com/webcast Is the guy in the background a ventriloquist and the one in front his dummy? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 22:50:58 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:50:58 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162507739.4748.56.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1162507858.4002.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Microsoft is like a perpetual fart in a closed room. For some reason they don't want the rest of us to breathe fresh air without their permission... RickT On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 17:48 -0500, ted leslie wrote: > shocked -- yup!! > one step closer to the worlds most popular OS in 5-6 year to be > > ...... Microsoft Linux ........ > > nice that Linux final wins, just don't like this new vendor :( > (not a vendor yet, but give it time!). > > at least I can use Windows Forms (with peace of mind) now in Mono, for > client side mass deployment. > > a lot of hippies are going to bail from SUSE (for this), but Mono is > just going to explode in use, if this press anouncement stands up. > > I will probably just appreciate this as just showing how weak MS is > getting, and not judging SUSE/Novell to harshly on it. > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > (the programmer in me speaking here) > > > -tl > > > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 17:26 -0500, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I'm as shocked as many others... > > RickT > > > > We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux > > Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about it. > > Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > for a special CEO-Update Webcast at http://www.novell.com/webcast > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca "This really isn't that hard. If you're going to kill someone there isn't much reason to get all worked up about it and angry -- you just pull the trigger. Angry discussions before hand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 23:06:59 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:06:59 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <200611021745.27246.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611021745.27246.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <454A7A13.6050007@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:26, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> I'm as shocked as many others... >> RickT >> >> We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux >> Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about >> it. Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard >> Time, for a special CEO-Update Webcast at >> http://www.novell.com/webcast > > Is the guy in the background a ventriloquist and the one in front his > dummy? Interoperability and patents. MS says they won't license software or patents to Linux users. Novel seems like a great proxy for MS to slowly encroach on software Linux users use without many knowing. Enter Debian. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 23:13:53 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:13:53 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1162489213.4002.5.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <1162485788.4002.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1e55af990611020926o3703149epa9e9c8dcdecb4ebb@mail.gmail.com> <1162489213.4002.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611021513n6476b125w2bd40e4f531a68fd@mail.gmail.com> > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 12:26 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 11/2/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > "The smallest bloggers can be accessed as easily and as quickly as the > > > websites of major corporations." > > > > > > The parasites and freeloaders feel threatened. They can no longer > > > dominate various markets. > > > > I disagree with that notion. And what the heck do you mean by > > "dominate various markets" ? So a popular blogger is dominating > > something? They're not taking away from the potential for others.. On 11/2/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I guess I could have been more exact... > Parasites and freeloaders (big business) > ;) Oh phew.. I went on a huge rant in response to that, and then just cut it down to something more polite. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 23:24:36 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:24:36 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162507739.4748.56.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1162509876.4748.70.camel@stan64.site> hmmm ... ok so it is basically Microsoft/Novell Linux now (forget about waiting 5-6 years) (at least the enterprise version) i wonder, i bought it for 50$, (enterprise desktop) will the price stay the same, and now i will get in that all the rights to .Net (patents), maybe even windows media player? well thats more destop? so maybe not. Really interesting announcement, but Balmer let it slip once "patent settlement" :) This will put Novell into some pretty big shops, and into some big deals. When the SCO case final gets put to pasture, hopefully Linux will just be on fire. -tl On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 17:48 -0500, ted leslie wrote: > shocked -- yup!! > one step closer to the worlds most popular OS in 5-6 year to be > > ...... Microsoft Linux ........ > > nice that Linux final wins, just don't like this new vendor :( > (not a vendor yet, but give it time!). > > at least I can use Windows Forms (with peace of mind) now in Mono, for > client side mass deployment. > > a lot of hippies are going to bail from SUSE (for this), but Mono is > just going to explode in use, if this press anouncement stands up. > > I will probably just appreciate this as just showing how weak MS is > getting, and not judging SUSE/Novell to harshly on it. > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > (the programmer in me speaking here) > > > -tl > > > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 17:26 -0500, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I'm as shocked as many others... > > RickT > > > > We have some exciting new developments in our Novell SUSE Linux > > Enterprise story, and we'd like you to be the first to hear about it. > > Please join us on Thursday, 2 Nov., at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > for a special CEO-Update Webcast at http://www.novell.com/webcast > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 2 23:47:05 2006 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:47:05 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102223159.GJ8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20611021401h54d1dc47p4db25fa9d75be012@mail.gmail.com> <20061102223159.GJ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Well they are already doing it, except only to supposedly save > themselves some bandwidth, not to charge extra money. I have no problem > with increasing priority of some traffic. What I do have a problem with > is targeting specific traffic for artificially lowered throughput (not > limited by available bandwidth, but by some active slowdown, aka what > rogers does to bittorrent and other such systems). Saying that VoIP > traffic should have higher priority sounds good to me, as long as the > stuff you are not increasing priority is treated equally. So far it > seems most net neutrality talks wants to ensure that no prioritization > of any kind can be done. I am all for not allowing artificial choking > of traffic, but I am also for allowing prioritizing certain types of > traffic that really have a need for fast delivery. The problem with this is that as soon as they upgrade their network again, they'll keep the 'status quo' speeds the same as with the previous incarnation of their network. So, within two years we'll see that suddenly it really is necessary to purchase extra QoS treatment or be relegated to a network that is obsolete. This is where the danger lies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 00:10:04 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:10:04 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162509876.4748.70.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> <1162509876.4748.70.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: I was gonna ask if anyone had a link to somewhere informative about this, but then it occurred to me that this must be on Slashdot by now. I was right. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 00:21:46 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:21:46 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> <1162509876.4748.70.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: Oh hey, I found a lovely, very ominous snag in the wording: "We won't assert our patents against individual, non-commercial open source developers" who write code for SUSE Linux, Ballmer pledged. from http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2006/11/02/tech-msnovell-061101.html And, hah, I like this: The deals will have no impact on Novell's antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft. Asked whether the outstanding conflicts addressed by the agreements affected the lawsuit, Ballmer said, "We were able to clear up almost everything except that one." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 00:24:06 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership Message-ID: <454A8C26.2030802@rogers.com> To be honest, I was sort of expecting a play along these lines. With IBM very likely to prevail in its request for summary judgment, and Novell likely to win in the copyright dispute, the licenses that Microsoft bought from SCO are now virtually worthless. In the event that any linux, unix, and / or SCO code made its way into Vista, Microsoft is going to be in need of a cheap out. Dumping a few $million (by a company with very deep pockets) into a venture that will die silently in a couple of years would seem to be a logical method of achieving such an aim. John John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 00:33:33 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:33:33 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> <1162509876.4748.70.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1162514013.4002.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Just go to http://www.Novell.com and follow the links. RickT On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 19:10 -0500, Simon wrote: > I was gonna ask if anyone had a link to somewhere informative about > this, but then it occurred to me that this must be on Slashdot by now. > I was right. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 00:45:01 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:45:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162514013.4002.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> <1162509876.4748.70.camel@stan64.site> <1162514013.4002.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: Ok, I see how it is now: Q. Does this mean that Microsoft will now sell Linux? No. However, as part of this agreement, Microsoft and Novell want to ensure our joint customers have the opportunity to take advantage of the improved interoperability and patent protection enabled by this agreement. To help promote these new solutions, Microsoft has purchased a quantity of coupons from Novell that entitle the recipient to a 1-year subscription for maintenance and updates to SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. Microsoft will make these coupons available to joint customers who are interested in deploying virtualized Windows on SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, or virtualized SUSE Linux Enterprise Server on Windows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 01:35:08 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:35:08 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162507739.4748.56.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:48, ted leslie wrote: > shocked -- yup!! > one step closer to the worlds most popular OS in 5-6 year to be > > ...... Microsoft Linux ........ > > nice that Linux final wins, just don't like this new vendor :( > (not a vendor yet, but give it time!). > > at least I can use Windows Forms (with peace of mind) now in Mono, > for client side mass deployment. > > a lot of hippies are going to bail from SUSE (for this), but Mono > is just going to explode in use, if this press anouncement stands > up. > > I will probably just appreciate this as just showing how weak MS > is getting, and not judging SUSE/Novell to harshly on it. > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > (the programmer in me speaking here) Mono ruling the world is a pipe dream. It will always be behind Microsoft's implemenation of the .NET architecture and despite claims to the contrary, there are no high-level languages for .NET, well, perhaps besides VB.NET which aside from being an awful language, is Microsoft-specific. IronPython is a curiousity at the moment and not really viable for serious development. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 01:56:55 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 20:56:55 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1162507739.4748.56.camel@stan64.site> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> actually at present rate by end of next year there will be more mono (.net) in a Novell (and maybe a red hat release) then in Vista, that pipe is already basically a reality. Behind?, actually at present development rate, it will be way ahead, way way ahead, and in short order. Truth of the matter is, it will take some miracle for MS to catch up to Mono, once Mono passes it soon. -tl On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 20:35 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:48, ted leslie wrote: > > shocked -- yup!! > > one step closer to the worlds most popular OS in 5-6 year to be > > > > ...... Microsoft Linux ........ > > > > nice that Linux final wins, just don't like this new vendor :( > > (not a vendor yet, but give it time!). > > > > at least I can use Windows Forms (with peace of mind) now in Mono, > > for client side mass deployment. > > > > a lot of hippies are going to bail from SUSE (for this), but Mono > > is just going to explode in use, if this press anouncement stands > > up. > > > > I will probably just appreciate this as just showing how weak MS > > is getting, and not judging SUSE/Novell to harshly on it. > > > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > > (the programmer in me speaking here) > > Mono ruling the world is a pipe dream. It will always be behind > Microsoft's implemenation of the .NET architecture and despite claims > to the contrary, there are no high-level languages for .NET, well, > perhaps besides VB.NET which aside from being an awful language, is > Microsoft-specific. IronPython is a curiousity at the moment and not > really viable for serious development. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 02:27:29 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:27:29 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162519015.4748.89.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 20:56, ted leslie wrote: > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 20:35 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:48, ted leslie wrote: > > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > > > (the programmer in me speaking here) > > > > Mono ruling the world is a pipe dream. It will always be behind > > Microsoft's implemenation of the .NET architecture and despite > > claims to the contrary, there are no high-level languages for > > .NET, well, perhaps besides VB.NET which aside from being an > > awful language, is Microsoft-specific. IronPython is a curiousity > > at the moment and not really viable for serious development. > > actually at present rate by end of next year there will be more > mono (.net) in a Novell (and maybe a red hat release) then in > Vista, that pipe is already basically a reality. > Behind?, actually at present development rate, it will be way > ahead, way way ahead, and in short order. Truth of the matter is, > it will take some miracle for MS to catch up to Mono, once Mono > passes it soon. Even if what you say is true, and I don't concede that at all, what is so compelling about Mono when there are no high-level languages? Do we really need to turn Linux into some Windows clone in order for Linux to "win"? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 03:20:18 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:20:18 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> The only reason Linux can't win, is it is by marketing lingo, a disruptive technology. very disruptive. Great, but disruptive. Mono is a really nice bridge. Now that OpenSuse.org was named (in the MS release) as able to use the MS IP as well as SLED, etc, I can write my code in mono (c#) use Windows Forms, and deploy it, with out change, on Linux, Windows, and MacOSX (ok there might be an issue with MacOSX). Kinda like Java was supposed to be before MS slipped it a poison pill. I hate MS, don't get me wrong, but in the grand scheme of things, .Net/C# is just basically Pascal, with a few things, "remoting", "reflection" it bought along the way. (well ok i am over simplifying it but, pedigree wise not to far off). As a programmer who doesn't want, "write once, write anything***, deploy anywhere"? and not recompile, and don't have ifdef's from hell. (where *** is scripting, web apps, GUI apps, browser plugins, and c# isn't to much of a departure away from C, so you can stay in the loop if you have to write any linux kernel stuff, which will be C for probably another 20 years at least). At the end of the day , for a classically trained programmer, Mono (C#) just works, its the holy grail. I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are pushing into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to jump out and do some serious head kicking :) Not sure about the High Level issue, to me c# is high level, how much higher does one need? I guess by high level you mean what you give a highschool student to learn programming in school? in which case VB on Mono will do, until they learn c#. As far as Windows clone? i am thinking more a gnome desktop (in Mono), deployed on a Windows OS, with apps written in Mono, giving a MS flunky a choice, and power, that eventually they realize, "hey I can just install Linux (for free), and I will have the same thing", and there's your non-disruptive technology. MS windows --> MS windows .Net --> MS windows (gnome Mono desktop) with .Net/Mono apps --> Linux (gnome Mono desktop) with .Net/Mono apps Nice easy migration. Might take 6 years but ....... Also moving drivers into CLI will allow HP, Epson, Canon, and small shops, to write once and deploy drivers on Linux and Windows, which will give Linux much needed driver support for little odd ball peripherals, as well as get the full features of the drivers put out by the HP's and Canon's etc, who right now treat the Linux drivers as a bit of a 2nd class priority. Might be tricky gluing a User space CLI driver (part) to a kernel space C part. However, the things like the HP's all-in-one applications, like fax viewer, printer status, etc,etc, if HP could write that puppy in c#/.Net and that would bring the best of the HP printers abilities to the Linux and Windows users, due to that common CLI (.Net & Mono), that goes a long way to making Linux become dominant. In the end I am all for everyone jumping on Linux, even if it means working with something that's a little bit Microsoft'ish. Sometimes you have to introduce a bit of poison , to the system, to rid the cancer for good. -tl On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 21:27 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 02 November 2006 20:56, ted leslie wrote: > > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 20:35 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > On Thursday 02 November 2006 17:48, ted leslie wrote: > > > > Mono has to rule the world, and this takes it one step closer. > > > > (the programmer in me speaking here) > > > > > > Mono ruling the world is a pipe dream. It will always be behind > > > Microsoft's implemenation of the .NET architecture and despite > > > claims to the contrary, there are no high-level languages for > > > .NET, well, perhaps besides VB.NET which aside from being an > > > awful language, is Microsoft-specific. IronPython is a curiousity > > > at the moment and not really viable for serious development. > > > > actually at present rate by end of next year there will be more > > mono (.net) in a Novell (and maybe a red hat release) then in > > Vista, that pipe is already basically a reality. > > Behind?, actually at present development rate, it will be way > > ahead, way way ahead, and in short order. Truth of the matter is, > > it will take some miracle for MS to catch up to Mono, once Mono > > passes it soon. > > Even if what you say is true, and I don't concede that at all, what is > so compelling about Mono when there are no high-level languages? Do > we really need to turn Linux into some Windows clone in order for > Linux to "win"? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 03:25:38 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:25:38 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162524018.4748.134.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: Yuck about the drivers, sounds like an excuse for vendors to deploy closed source drivers on Linux... though that would probably be copyright infringement, unless it all runs in userspace (of course, I shouldn't even need to say it: IANAL, haha) Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 03:51:53 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:51:53 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162524018.4748.134.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200611022251.54529.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 22:20, ted leslie wrote: > .Net/C# is just basically Pascal I cant believe that. Pascal (Borland) was basically transparent. If you are right, I want to jump into ".Net/#C" . But I do not believe you for now. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 04:43:55 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:43:55 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <45491166.7070008-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45491166.7070008@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 04:28:06PM -0500, Andrej Marjan wrote > In a nutshell: running natively compiled code through a smart > optimizing VM can make it faster than native. For a true apples-to-apples comparison, what about "optimizing VM" versus optimizing compiler? I'm talking... CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" and putting mmx, sse, and sse2 into "USE" (under Gentoo). -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 06:30:01 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:30:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162506374.4002.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611022230l3ea6cd92r193b0d0ed7203b43@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm as shocked as many others... Funny - I'm kinda not surprised. Truth happens and if Microsoft doesn't do something I think they'll be in hot water. I'd be willing to bet that this has been in the works for a while. The enemy of my enemy... I've become a fan of Ubuntu (and as a result Debian), but I grew up on Red Hat. Truth Happens. http://www.redhat.com/truthhappens/videos/ourfilms.html ($0.02) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 06:49:08 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:49:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd] Developer Chat with the Creator of JavaScript and Mozilla CTO Brendan Eich In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611022249vf5bb211jec0e07f9ac550fe3@mail.gmail.com> The presentation on AJAX was pretty much sold out at the FSOSS 2006 symposium last week. This might be of interest to folks building web applications. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Asa Dotzler Date: Nov 2, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: Developer Chat with the Creator of JavaScript and Mozilla CTO Brendan Eich To: dev-ajax-CzyLcWPZiU5YsZ3hbOqMTti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Chat with the Creator of JavaScript and Mozilla CTO Brendan Eich This Tuesday, November 7th at 10am PST (UTC-8) Brendan Eich and some very special guests will be hosting a developer chat about exciting new technologies coming to Mozilla 2. If you didn't read Brendan's Mozilla 2 roadmap post, here's an excerpt[1] to whet your whistle for Tuesday's talk. >For Mozilla 2, we will have a JIT-oriented JavaScript VM (details soon) >that supports the forthcoming ECMAScript Edition 4 ("JS2") language[2]. >Among the desirable characteristics of this VM will be a conservative, >incremental garbage collector (GC). If it makes sense, we can use this >GC module to manage DOM object memory instead of using XPCOM reference >counting. We can use its conservative scanning code to assist in cycle >collection[3]. And we can insert JIT calls directly into DOM glue >code[4] entry points (provided no JS mutation has overridden a method >property value), bypassing the powerful but relatively slow >typelib[5]-based dispatching machinery of XPConnect[6]. If that sounds exciting to you, then you won't want to miss this opportunity to discuss it with Brendan. Join us Tuesday at 10am PST (UTC-8) on the IRC server irc.mozilla.org in the channel #javascript for this exciting event. [1]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/2006/10/mozilla_2.html [2]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/2006/05/javascript_2_ecmascript_editio.html [3]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/2006/04/fresh_xpcom_thinking_update.html [4]http://wiki.mozilla.org/Security:Security_Checks_In_Glue [5]http://www.mozilla.org/scriptable/typelib_file.html [6]http://www.mozilla.org/scriptable _______________________________________________ dev-ajax mailing list dev-ajax-CzyLcWPZiU5YsZ3hbOqMTti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-ajax -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 06:53:58 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:53:58 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <454A8C26.2030802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <454A8C26.2030802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611022253u798ccd32x8b09b63241ff153c@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/06, John McGregor wrote: > To be honest, I was sort of expecting a play along these lines. With IBM > very likely to prevail in its request for summary judgment, and Novell > likely to win in the copyright dispute, the licenses that Microsoft > bought from SCO are now virtually worthless. In the event that any > linux, unix, and / or SCO code made its way into Vista, Microsoft is > going to be in need of a cheap out. Dumping a few $million (by a company > with very deep pockets) into a venture that will die silently in a > couple of years would seem to be a logical method of achieving such an aim. Lol, I should read my mail in choronological order. Heh. What you've described also sounds like a well executed diversion. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 12:07:40 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 07:07:40 -0500 Subject: CMS with picture voting Message-ID: <002401c6ff40$a999b310$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Greetings and salutations FLOSS brethren, Does anyone know of a good CMS that has a picture/voting pluggin? I have been using e107 for about a year now (http://www.ldapeditor.com ) and it works great. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 13:12:44 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:12:44 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061103044355.GA22331-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45491166.7070008@pobox.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec@mail.gmail.com> > For a true apples-to-apples comparison, what about "optimizing VM" > versus optimizing compiler? I'm talking... > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" > and putting mmx, sse, and sse2 into "USE" (under Gentoo). If you google "dynamo dynamic optimization", you can find a PDF that answers this question in great detail. The summary is that dynamic optimization has a bigger effect (percentage wise) the higher you set the optimizations in the static compiler. Also, dynamic optimization is not an alternative to static optimization--it's a complement. If you want the best possible performance, you should do _both_ (assuming your run times are at least 2 minutes--you have to let the dynamic optimizer "warm up"). The example in the PDF I'm referring to compared static optimization equivalent to -O plus dynamic optimization to static optimization equivalent to either -O2 or -O3 without dynamic optimization. The dynamically optimized version was slightly faster on average. Dynamic plus -O2/3 is even faster. (I say "static optimization equivalent to ..." because they wrote Dynamo for HP's Unix and they were using HP's static compiler, not gcc.) Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 13:30:47 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:30:47 -0500 Subject: CMS with picture voting In-Reply-To: <002401c6ff40$a999b310$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002401c6ff40$a999b310$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <454B4487.5080300@utoronto.ca> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Greetings and salutations FLOSS brethren, > > Does anyone know of a good CMS that has a picture/voting pluggin? > > I have been using e107 for about a year now (http://www.ldapeditor.com > ) and it works great. Drupal has some excellent capabilities in that area. There are multiple voting modules (a whole voting api in fact), and multiple photo modules. There is even a module that integrates with Gallery2 (another good CMS built entirely around photos). There is also a Lightbox2 module that displays photos in a nice javascript foldout/dropdown box without ever leaving a page. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 13:54:18 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:54:18 -0500 Subject: Pact of Steel II, Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611030854.18623.rob@luckdancing.com> I've been reading stories about the recent Microsoft/Novell deal and one thing I've noticed is that no one seems to be talking about the number of times a Microsoft 'partnership' like this has worked out well for it's partner - I think it's zero or perhaps even negative :-) Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 13:58:21 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:58:21 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611022253u798ccd32x8b09b63241ff153c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <454A8C26.2030802@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0611022253u798ccd32x8b09b63241ff153c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162562301.3931.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Likely why MS does'nt want anyone to see code. Their products resemble a rehash of existing freely available code. RickT On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 01:53 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/2/06, John McGregor wrote: > > To be honest, I was sort of expecting a play along these lines. With IBM > > very likely to prevail in its request for summary judgment, and Novell > > likely to win in the copyright dispute, the licenses that Microsoft > > bought from SCO are now virtually worthless. In the event that any > > linux, unix, and / or SCO code made its way into Vista, Microsoft is > > going to be in need of a cheap out. Dumping a few $million (by a company > > with very deep pockets) into a venture that will die silently in a > > couple of years would seem to be a logical method of achieving such an aim. > > Lol, I should read my mail in choronological order. Heh. > > What you've described also sounds like a well executed diversion. > -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 14:59:10 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:59:10 -0500 Subject: Pact of Steel II, Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <200611030854.18623.rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec@mail.gmail.com> <200611030854.18623.rob@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <1162565950.3931.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> >From a link Truth Happens...reply: Scott Elcomb http://www.redhat.com/truthhappens/videos/ourfilms.html RedHat Summit 2006, Visionary Keynote Eben Moglen Professor of Law, Columbia Law School While the keynote was by a lawyer it touches on some good points on how the rights of users are being eroded in and illegal way. Seems like a trend in todays world. RickT On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 08:54 -0500, Rob Sutherland wrote: > I've been reading stories about the recent Microsoft/Novell deal and one thing > I've noticed is that no one seems to be talking about the number of times a > Microsoft 'partnership' like this has worked out well for it's partner - I > think it's zero or perhaps even negative :-) > > Rob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 15:40:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:40:27 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162524018.4748.134.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061103154027.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 10:20:18PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > As a programmer who doesn't want, "write once, write anything***, > deploy anywhere"? and not recompile, and don't have ifdef's from hell. > (where *** is scripting, web apps, GUI apps, browser plugins, and c# > isn't to much of a departure away from C, so you can stay in the loop if > you have to write any linux kernel stuff, which will be C for probably > another 20 years at least). Lets see: people writing code for embedded systems don't want that. They want something small and efficient. People writing games don't want that. They want something efficient so they can make their game run faster and have more effects so it looks better than that other games. > At the end of the day , for a classically trained programmer, Mono (C#) > just works, its the holy grail. Until someone invents the next one. > I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are pushing > into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to jump out and do > some serious head kicking :) > Not sure about the High Level issue, to me c# is high level, how much > higher does one need? > I guess by high level you mean what you give a highschool student to > learn programming in school? in which case VB on Mono will do, until > they learn c#. If it becomes a problem, microsoft will change the rules. They are used to doing that when things bother them. > Also moving drivers into CLI will allow HP, Epson, Canon, and small > shops, to write once and deploy drivers on Linux and Windows, which will > give Linux much needed driver support for little odd ball peripherals, > as well as get the full features of the drivers put out by the HP's and > Canon's etc, who right now treat the Linux drivers as a bit of a 2nd > class priority. Might be tricky gluing a User space CLI driver (part) to > a kernel space C part. However, the things like the HP's all-in-one > applications, like fax viewer, printer status, etc,etc, if HP could > write that puppy in c#/.Net and that would bring the best of the HP > printers abilities to the Linux and Windows users, due to that common > CLI (.Net & Mono), that goes a long way to making Linux become > dominant. A print driver for windows needs to tie in to microsofts GDI (or whatever it is called now) print system. On Linux and MacOS they want drivers that can output based on postscript instead. Not sure how much it would be worth trying to combine those into one bloated driver. Maybe for some of the other features of an all-in-one device, but not for the printing. besides does mono have access to raw USB or scsi? Interesting illusion though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 15:42:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:42:28 -0500 Subject: Rogers and BitTorrent: another datapoint In-Reply-To: <20061103044355.GA22331-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061027174551.GS30992@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200610312133.06829.amarjan@pobox.com> <20061101165431.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45491166.7070008@pobox.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20061103154228.GL8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 11:43:55PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 04:28:06PM -0500, Andrej Marjan wrote > > > In a nutshell: running natively compiled code through a smart > > optimizing VM can make it faster than native. > > For a true apples-to-apples comparison, what about "optimizing VM" > versus optimizing compiler? I'm talking... > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" > and putting mmx, sse, and sse2 into "USE" (under Gentoo). How about using a proper optimizing compiler, like intel's for example. gcc almost doesn't count yet. Good compiler, not very good optimizing compiler. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 16:10:02 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 11:10:02 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103154027.GK8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> <20061103154027.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1162570202.4748.174.camel@stan64.site> On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 10:40 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 10:20:18PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > As a programmer who doesn't want, "write once, write anything***, > > deploy anywhere"? and not recompile, and don't have ifdef's from hell. > > (where *** is scripting, web apps, GUI apps, browser plugins, and c# > > isn't to much of a departure away from C, so you can stay in the loop if > > you have to write any linux kernel stuff, which will be C for probably > > another 20 years at least). > > Lets see: people writing code for embedded systems don't want that. > They want something small and efficient. People writing games don't > want that. They want something efficient so they can make their game > run faster and have more effects so it looks better than that other > games. With quad cores being norm in 1 year and 8-core maybe in 2?, and such a pathetic use of this technology by all involved, the extra cores will take a CLI system and make it perform better then most things that are not under active development. If we were still in a single core world, i'd agree, but since (with cell, amd dual/quad core), its just simply not going to happen. The days of efficient languages on a single core, even down to assembly are coming to a quick end. The extra 3 cores that are just sitting there idle, will be able to optimize and cache the CLI to a efficient form. For calls to do shading , poly draw, etc, those are going to be C/asm , and mostly in the card HW anyways. CLI on 8 cores is plenty to get whatever game your going to need. And in time C# will compile down to what C does anyways (down to native compiler) , so as far as parking your "programming time" in front of one language/platform, Mono still (will) have everything C will have anyways. So you just get the best of everything in one place. all be it if you choose to use C# native comp'd you will not get x-platfrom independance. but atleast a recompile will be relatively easy on the other platform. > > > At the end of the day , for a classically trained programmer, Mono (C#) > > just works, its the holy grail. > > Until someone invents the next one. > > > I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are pushing > > into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to jump out and do > > some serious head kicking :) > > Not sure about the High Level issue, to me c# is high level, how much > > higher does one need? > > I guess by high level you mean what you give a highschool student to > > learn programming in school? in which case VB on Mono will do, until > > they learn c#. > > If it becomes a problem, microsoft will change the rules. They are used > to doing that when things bother them. > > > Also moving drivers into CLI will allow HP, Epson, Canon, and small > > shops, to write once and deploy drivers on Linux and Windows, which will > > give Linux much needed driver support for little odd ball peripherals, > > as well as get the full features of the drivers put out by the HP's and > > Canon's etc, who right now treat the Linux drivers as a bit of a 2nd > > class priority. Might be tricky gluing a User space CLI driver (part) to > > a kernel space C part. However, the things like the HP's all-in-one > > applications, like fax viewer, printer status, etc,etc, if HP could > > write that puppy in c#/.Net and that would bring the best of the HP > > printers abilities to the Linux and Windows users, due to that common > > CLI (.Net & Mono), that goes a long way to making Linux become > > dominant. > > A print driver for windows needs to tie in to microsofts GDI (or > whatever it is called now) print system. On Linux and MacOS they want > drivers that can output based on postscript instead. Not sure how much > it would be worth trying to combine those into one bloated driver. > Maybe for some of the other features of an all-in-one device, but not > for the printing. besides does mono have access to raw USB or scsi? > > Interesting illusion though. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 16:17:34 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:17:34 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611030817p1694a604uee2c7f4bf6a14397@mail.gmail.com> On 11/1/06, Stan Witkowski wrote: > - SL-C3200 (the new OpenBSD 4.0 available on it!) It does? http://www.openbsd.org/zaurus.html Curious.. when I went looking for BSD on the zaurus, everything seemed dead. It's good to see this one up and running.. I don't know that you could get a Japanese-only PDA like this in Toronto, as such. I know places where you can buy one online quite easily. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:12:50 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:12:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103154027.GK8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061103154027.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061103171251.79554.qmail@web61317.mail.yahoo.com> What I didn't understand is that Balmer is saying the Windows/Linux interoperability technologies will apply only to SuSe and not to other Linux distros. How does that sit with GPL? I see SuSe to be murky. You are in a territory that is neither proprietary nor open source. One possibility I see is that Novell will act much more like SCO in due time, sue vendors and scare user from using Linux. EK Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 10:20:18PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > As a programmer who doesn't want, "write once, write anything***, > deploy anywhere"? and not recompile, and don't have ifdef's from hell. > (where *** is scripting, web apps, GUI apps, browser plugins, and c# > isn't to much of a departure away from C, so you can stay in the loop if > you have to write any linux kernel stuff, which will be C for probably > another 20 years at least). Lets see: people writing code for embedded systems don't want that. They want something small and efficient. People writing games don't want that. They want something efficient so they can make their game run faster and have more effects so it looks better than that other games. > At the end of the day , for a classically trained programmer, Mono (C#) > just works, its the holy grail. Until someone invents the next one. > I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are pushing > into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to jump out and do > some serious head kicking :) > Not sure about the High Level issue, to me c# is high level, how much > higher does one need? > I guess by high level you mean what you give a highschool student to > learn programming in school? in which case VB on Mono will do, until > they learn c#. If it becomes a problem, microsoft will change the rules. They are used to doing that when things bother them. > Also moving drivers into CLI will allow HP, Epson, Canon, and small > shops, to write once and deploy drivers on Linux and Windows, which will > give Linux much needed driver support for little odd ball peripherals, > as well as get the full features of the drivers put out by the HP's and > Canon's etc, who right now treat the Linux drivers as a bit of a 2nd > class priority. Might be tricky gluing a User space CLI driver (part) to > a kernel space C part. However, the things like the HP's all-in-one > applications, like fax viewer, printer status, etc,etc, if HP could > write that puppy in c#/.Net and that would bring the best of the HP > printers abilities to the Linux and Windows users, due to that common > CLI (.Net & Mono), that goes a long way to making Linux become > dominant. A print driver for windows needs to tie in to microsofts GDI (or whatever it is called now) print system. On Linux and MacOS they want drivers that can output based on postscript instead. Not sure how much it would be worth trying to combine those into one bloated driver. Maybe for some of the other features of an all-in-one device, but not for the printing. besides does mono have access to raw USB or scsi? Interesting illusion though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:21:46 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:21:46 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103171251.79554.qmail-AouFGu99mLOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061103154027.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061103171251.79554.qmail@web61317.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> On 11/3/06, E K wrote: > What I didn't understand is that Balmer is saying the Windows/Linux > interoperability technologies will apply only to SuSe and not to other Linux > distros. How does that sit with GPL? I see SuSe to be murky. You are in a > territory that is neither proprietary nor open source. My understanding of Ballmer's "but only Suse customers" comment was that Microsoft is only going to allow Suse customers to freely use Microsoft's patents. (This all assumes that Suse includes software that infringes on some of Microsoft's patents, which is unclear to me.) I don't think that's murky. By buying something from Suse, the purchase now includes the rights to Microsoft's "IP". By not buying anything from Suse, you haven't got the opportunity to get access to Microsoft's "IP" (unless you go ask Microsoft yourself, or get access some other way). The GPL, and open source in general, doesn't enter into the picture, from my understanding. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:30:21 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 12:30:21 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162506374.4002.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <454B7CAD.8010904@rogers.com> > I'm as shocked as many others... Holy s--t, me too... I checked my calendar just in case it was 1-Apr and I somehow forgot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:46:33 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:46:33 -0500 Subject: Pact of Steel II, Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1162565950.3931.7.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec@mail.gmail.com> <200611030854.18623.rob@luckdancing.com> <1162565950.3931.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: It's not exactly your average lawyer, he's part of the FSF leadership. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:47:56 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:47:56 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162524018.4748.134.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 02 November 2006 22:20, ted leslie wrote: > The only reason Linux can't win, is it is by marketing lingo, > a disruptive technology. very disruptive. > Great, but disruptive. Mono is a really nice bridge. > Now that OpenSuse.org was named (in the MS release) as able to use > the MS IP as well as SLED, etc, I suspect all the blather yesterday about IP on the part of Microsoft was just to spread more FUD about Linux and to attempt to divide the Linux community by blessing Novell and implying other Linux distros and their users and developers were somehow rogues and didn't respect Microsoft's IP. It may turn out that Novell will be marginalized by the Linux community and will effectively be a fork that no one cares about. The safest course of action for open source may be to not accept contributions from Novell employees because of the possibility of taint but that will hurt Novell more than it hurts the rest of the community. Novell code could be seen as damaged and the open source community will figure out a way to work around the damage. > I can write my code in mono (c#) use Windows Forms, > and deploy it, with out change, on Linux, Windows, and MacOSX (ok > there might be an issue with MacOSX). So how is it "cross-platform" then if OS X might be a problem? > Kinda like Java was supposed > to be before MS slipped it a poison pill. > wrong, but in the grand scheme of things, .Net/C# is just basically > Pascal, with a few things, "remoting", "reflection" it bought along > the way. (well ok i am over simplifying it but, pedigree wise not > to far off). I don't see the comparison to Pascal at all. I see C# as Microsoft's reimplementation of Java. If MS really wanted to play well with others, it could have contributed to Java (not that I really care about Java either) instead of sabotaging it. > As a programmer who doesn't want, "write once, write anything***, > deploy anywhere"? and not recompile, and don't have ifdef's from > hell. (where *** is scripting, web apps, GUI apps, browser > plugins, and c# isn't to much of a departure away from C, so you > can stay in the loop if you have to write any linux kernel stuff, > which will be C for probably another 20 years at least). > > At the end of the day , for a classically trained programmer, Mono > (C#) just works, its the holy grail. > > I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are > pushing into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to > jump out and do some serious head kicking :) It remains to be seen who has pushed a trojan horse into whose fortress. I'll bet the folks at MS believe they have pushed one into the Linux camp. Given Microsoft's successful track record at gaining the upper hand against "partners" (and Novell's lack of same), it would be foolish to bet against Microsoft. > Not sure about the High Level issue, to me c# is high level, how > much higher does one need? Developers who use dynamic languages might take issue with C# allegedly being "high level". > I guess by high level you mean what you give a highschool student > to learn programming in school? in which case VB on Mono will do, > until they learn c#. You're trying to portray languages that high school students might use to learn programming as somehow unfit for real, he-man programmers. Considering that one of the more long-lived and influential languages, Smalltalk, was originally created to teach even younger children, that portrayal is just elitist nonsense. But, I don't use Smalltalk. I use Python, which is a perfectly viable language for doing just about anything other than kernel programming and writing device drivers. It is more portable than the CLI and certainly doesn't require a 20M runtime just to print "Hello, world!". Anything that is performance-critical can easily be replaced by C or C++ and incorporated into Python. You may argue that C# would perform better than Python, or other dynamic languages, but at the same time, you also argue that multi-core CPUs negate the perceived or real inefficiencies of the CLI. You can't have it both ways. By the way, I'm aware of IronPython but until every standard Python module is reimplemented in C#, it is nothing more than an interesting Computer Science exercise. > As far as Windows clone? i am thinking more a gnome desktop (in > Mono), deployed on a Windows OS, with apps written in Mono, giving > a MS flunky a choice, and power, that eventually they realize, "hey > I can just install Linux (for free), and I will have the same > thing", and there's your non-disruptive technology. And for those of us who don't care about Gnome, tough luck I suppose. > MS windows --> MS windows .Net --> MS windows (gnome Mono desktop) > with .Net/Mono apps --> Linux (gnome Mono desktop) with .Net/Mono > apps Nice easy migration. > Might take 6 years but ....... > > Also moving drivers into CLI will allow HP, Epson, Canon, and small > shops, to write once and deploy drivers on Linux and Windows, which > will give Linux much needed driver support for little odd ball > peripherals, as well as get the full features of the drivers put > out by the HP's and Canon's etc, who right now treat the Linux > drivers as a bit of a 2nd class priority. Might be tricky gluing a > User space CLI driver (part) to a kernel space C part. However, the > things like the HP's all-in-one applications, like fax viewer, > printer status, etc,etc, if HP could write that puppy in c#/.Net > and that would bring the best of the HP printers abilities to the > Linux and Windows users, due to that common CLI (.Net & Mono), that > goes a long way to making Linux become dominant. There have been binary standards for x86 drivers long before .NET existed but Microsoft was never interested in supporting that standard because it would mean that competing operating systems wouldn't have to waste time reinventing the wheel. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 17:54:34 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:54:34 -0500 Subject: Pact of Steel II, Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061103044355.GA22331@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420611030512p3bbb316bqeee1b503fdc726ec@mail.gmail.com> <200611030854.18623.rob@luckdancing.com> <1162565950.3931.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611030954w3e215978g5feef68a65abc97a@mail.gmail.com> On 11/3/06, Simon wrote: > It's not exactly your average lawyer, he's part of the FSF leadership. Sorry if this link's already been posted. Lots of chatter about this on the net. =) Eben Moglen has something to say about it too: "Moglen: Microsoft-Novell raises GPL questions" http://news.com.com/2061-10795_3-6132156.html -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 18:22:52 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:22:52 -0500 Subject: Chris Bliss - juggler extraordinaire Message-ID: <454B88FC.7040702@qef.com> This I have to share -- it's amazing: http://coolsite.com/chris_bliss.html -- david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 18:22:56 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:22:56 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1162578176.10979.125.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 12:47 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I suspect all the blather yesterday about IP on the part of Microsoft > was just to spread more FUD about Linux and to attempt to divide the > Linux community by blessing Novell and implying other Linux distros > and their users and developers were somehow rogues and didn't respect > Microsoft's IP. I think Novell is trying to convince corporate users. The Microsoft deal give legitimacy and an extra level of protection. Red Hat is the corporate choice right now and Novell wants to displace Red Hat. > So how is it "cross-platform" then if OS X might be a problem? Support for more than one platform is cross-platform. > I don't see the comparison to Pascal at all. I see C# as Microsoft's > reimplementation of Java. If MS really wanted to play well with > others, it could have contributed to Java (not that I really care > about Java either) instead of sabotaging it. MS has to control the platform. Supporting Java would mean that programs would be cross platform. > It remains to be seen who has pushed a trojan horse into whose > fortress. I'll bet the folks at MS believe they have pushed one into > the Linux camp. Given Microsoft's successful track record at gaining > the upper hand against "partners" (and Novell's lack of same), it > would be foolish to bet against Microsoft. I foolishly hope that this is a sign from Microsoft that they think Linux is not going away. They are hedging their bets with a small "partnership" with an old and well understood competitor. This is one step in the direction of a more peaceful co-existence. > You're trying to portray languages that high school students might use > to learn programming as somehow unfit for real, he-man programmers. Well, the shoe fits Visual Basic. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 18:33:23 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:33:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> What if you buy SuSe and pass it on to some one else? or is SuSe licenced per copy as M$ Windows and you can not pass it on to some one else? Can the person you gave SuSe to use those technologies that you are able to use (specially those that are bundled with the CD, which I assume will include the useful ones)? I didn't understand that SuSe customers can use windows software without buying them or any other software in windows per se. I understood him as saying that if you are a Novell customer then you can run perl on windows or use mount vista file system on Linux, play window media player files with DRMs, stuff like that. Stuff which are technically possible to do but MS licencing prohibit you. EK Ian Petersen wrote: On 11/3/06, E K wrote: > What I didn't understand is that Balmer is saying the Windows/Linux > interoperability technologies will apply only to SuSe and not to other Linux > distros. How does that sit with GPL? I see SuSe to be murky. You are in a > territory that is neither proprietary nor open source. My understanding of Ballmer's "but only Suse customers" comment was that Microsoft is only going to allow Suse customers to freely use Microsoft's patents. (This all assumes that Suse includes software that infringes on some of Microsoft's patents, which is unclear to me.) I don't think that's murky. By buying something from Suse, the purchase now includes the rights to Microsoft's "IP". By not buying anything from Suse, you haven't got the opportunity to get access to Microsoft's "IP" (unless you go ask Microsoft yourself, or get access some other way). The GPL, and open source in general, doesn't enter into the picture, from my understanding. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 18:33:28 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:33:28 -0500 Subject: Pact of Steel II, Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611030954w3e215978g5feef68a65abc97a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061027154533.52707.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f0611030954w3e215978g5feef68a65abc97a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611031333.28663.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 03 November 2006 12:54, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/3/06, Simon wrote: > > It's not exactly your average lawyer, he's part of the FSF > > leadership. > > Sorry if this link's already been posted. Lots of chatter about > this on the net. =) > > Eben Moglen has something to say about it too: As does Bruce Perens: . -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 18:51:45 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:51:45 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103183323.23080.qmail-inj+/bcMcZ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> > What if you buy SuSe and pass it on to some one else? or is SuSe licenced > per copy as M$ Windows and you can not pass it on to some one else? Can the > person you gave SuSe to use those technologies that you are able to use > (specially those that are bundled with the CD, which I assume will include > the useful ones)? Well, I _think_ the main point was about patents. I think Microsoft is asserting that "Linux" (which probably means more than just the kernel) contains code that infringes upon Microsoft's patents. If that's true, then barring special circumstances, nobody's allowed to use it anyway (at least the patented bits). My understanding is that this new deal with SuSe is a "special circumstance" that allows paying customers of SuSe to use the patented bits without risk from Microsoft. If that's true, these new rights to use Microsoft's patents are probably not transferrable. > I didn't understand that SuSe customers can use windows software without > buying them or any other software in windows per se. I understood him as > saying that if you are a Novell customer then you can run perl on windows or > use mount vista file system on Linux, play window media player files with > DRMs, stuff like that. Stuff which are technically possible to do but MS > licencing prohibit you. I must have been unclear in my previous post because I fully agree with this paragraph of yours. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 19:00:14 2006 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:00:14 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103183323.23080.qmail-inj+/bcMcZ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1bb290611031100o65107216r552379962308bee1@mail.gmail.com> I'd be interested to know what role IBM's support for open source and Linux has had on Microsoft. Likewise for IBM's support of the Service Oriented Architecture, which commoditizes operating systems and databases (hello Oracle). It might be the case that Microsoft is considering a road map that would devalue its OS business (commoditize it) and shift most MS resources into SOA-type applications. Cheers, Simone On 11/3/06, E K wrote: > What if you buy SuSe and pass it on to some one else? or is SuSe licenced > per copy as M$ Windows and you can not pass it on to some one else? Can the > person you gave SuSe to use those technologies that you are able to use > (specially those that are bundled with the CD, which I assume will include > the useful ones)? > > I didn't understand that SuSe customers can use windows software without > buying them or any other software in windows per se. I understood him as > saying that if you are a Novell customer then you can run perl on windows or > use mount vista file system on Linux, play window media player files with > DRMs, stuff like that. Stuff which are technically possible to do but MS > licencing prohibit you. > > EK > > Ian Petersen wrote: > On 11/3/06, E K wrote: > > What I didn't understand is that Balmer is saying the Windows/Linux > > interoperability technologies will apply only to SuSe and not to other > Linux > > distros. How does that sit with GPL? I see SuSe to be murky. You are in a > > territory that is neither proprietary nor open source. > > My understanding of Ballmer's "but only Suse customers" comment was > that Microsoft is only going to allow Suse customers to freely use > Microsoft's patents. (This all assumes that Suse includes software > that infringes on some of Microsoft's patents, which is unclear to > me.) I don't think that's murky. By buying something from Suse, the > purchase now includes the rights to Microsoft's "IP". By not buying > anything from Suse, you haven't got the opportunity to get access to > Microsoft's "IP" (unless you go ask Microsoft yourself, or get access > some other way). The GPL, and open source in general, doesn't enter > into the picture, from my understanding. > > Ian > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > ________________________________ > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! > Mail. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 19:15:43 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:15:43 -0500 Subject: A Landmark Announcement Message-ID: <1162581343.3931.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Send your complaints to the CEO. RHovsepian-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org , partnernet_feedback-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org My email to CEO: The announcement yesterday is a sellout and slap in the face to partners who have spent years trying to build independence from Microsoft. Your actions are self serving and not customer driven as you have indicated. Another disappointing day for Novell. No wonder Novell is perceived as a clown in the computer industry. Regards, Rick Tomaschuk NUI - Toronto Area Chapter President -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca "This really isn't that hard. If you're going to kill someone there isn't much reason to get all worked up about it and angry -- you just pull the trigger. Angry discussions before hand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 20:28:06 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:28:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | On Thursday 02 November 2006 22:20, ted leslie wrote: | > I see Mono (and this SUSE deal), and the trojan horse we are | > pushing into the Microsoft fortess, and in time we are going to | > jump out and do some serious head kicking :) | | It remains to be seen who has pushed a trojan horse into whose | fortress. I'll bet the folks at MS believe they have pushed one into | the Linux camp. Given Microsoft's successful track record at gaining | the upper hand against "partners" (and Novell's lack of same), it | would be foolish to bet against Microsoft. I cannot make sense of the deal. Perhaps because all I know is from this mailing list and a couple of articles. Nothing MS does is good for Linux except accidentally. They are intentionally fighting Linux (who could blame them). Here's the clearest threat that I can see. Mono has been very controversial in the FLOSS world. The Ximians (since bought by SuSE) honestly thought they could ride that tiger. I (and RedHat) have been very scared that the tiger would eat us. It could be that SuSE's license lets it dig us deeper into the Mono trap before it is sprung: - SuSE, for a few years, is safe. But then what? - the rest of us may well be lulled into following them. Tomboy etc. are trojans that have gotten mono into Fedora. - MS can change its terms any time it wants to (except for SuSE which has a guaranteed few years of safety). Don't think that terms don't change. Here are some examples that come to mind: - Fraunhoffer Gessellshaft owns MP3 patents. They said that no fees were required for decoders. Then in 2002 they decided that the fee would be US$0.75 per decoder. After the format was widely adopted. - MS convinced some of us that Windows NT would be a decent UNIX (POSIX) platform in the early days (before there were any free UNIXes). They had a POSIX "personality" that looked like it might be good. Good enough to win US government procurements. Then it turned out that the POSIX was neutered. It could not share anything with the rest of the system. Eventually, (NT4.0, I think) they dropped it. Anyone who bought into their original promise was effectively shepherded away from UNIX and into NT. - MS distributed free fonts to encourage web designers to use them. After all they were universally free. They have since been withdrawn. They continue to get passed on user to user, but that is a messy process and I'm not sure of the legality - the design of HDCP is such that DRMed stuff can be restricted from use on a system without end-to-end approval by the rights holder. Apparently they restriction will be waived for a few years until enough consumers have transitioned to hardware/software that will accomplish that. If it were implemented immediately, the consumers might wake up and rebel. In particular, Vista make this restriction possible but the movie publishers have agreed to a delay (probably until DVDs are replaced by HD equivalents). My current belief is that we should strongly resist Mono. Java seems to be a bit safer. Sun is loosening up a bit on Java. Perhaps some of the credit needs to be given to C# et al since it has put competitive pressure on Sun. Besides, Sun does not have interlocking monopolies. And Java's problems are visible -- it is not a trojan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 19:45:36 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:45:36 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162570202.4748.174.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022035.08749.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162519015.4748.89.camel@stan64.site> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> <20061103154027.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1162570202.4748.174.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061103194535.GM8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 11:10:02AM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > With quad cores being norm in 1 year and 8-core maybe in 2?, > and such a pathetic use of this technology by all involved, > the extra cores will take a CLI system and make it perform > better then most things that are not under active development. > If we were still in a single core world, i'd agree, > but since (with cell, amd dual/quad core), its just simply not > going to happen. The days of efficient languages on a single core, even > down to assembly are coming to a quick end. The extra 3 cores that are > just sitting there idle, will be able to optimize and cache the > CLI to a efficient form. For calls to do shading , poly draw, etc, > those are going to be C/asm , and mostly in the card HW anyways. > CLI on 8 cores is plenty to get whatever game your going to need. Just because we have more resources doesn't mean we should simply waste more of them. And of course many people do write code for low power embedded systems, where you are lucky to have 64MB ram, and a 200MHz processor. Many are a lot smaller than that. > And in time C# will compile down to what C does anyways (down to native > compiler) , so as far as parking your "programming time" in front of one > language/platform, Mono still (will) have everything C will have > anyways. So you just get the best of everything in one place. all be it > if you choose to use C# native comp'd you will not get x-platfrom > independance. but atleast a recompile will be relatively easy on the > other platform. And the runtime will be shrunk how? Many modern languages have too much baggage attached. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 19:51:51 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:51:51 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <1162578176.10979.125.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1162506374.4002.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200611022127.29408.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162524018.4748.134.camel@stan64.site> <200611031247.57185.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162578176.10979.125.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20061103195151.GN8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 01:22:56PM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > You're trying to portray languages that high school students might use > > to learn programming as somehow unfit for real, he-man programmers. > > Well, the shoe fits Visual Basic. "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." - Edsger Dijkstra I hope I didn't learn too much from basic before learning to program. Basic never did seem like a very good language at gettings things done. Pascal was a lot better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 19:56:14 2006 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne (WFTL)) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:56:14 -0500 Subject: Novell breaks ground on its gravesite Message-ID: <200611031456.16106.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello everyone, Further to the whole Novell/Microsoft story, Forbes has just released an interesting take on the whole thing. Here's the printer friendly version of the story. http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/03/linux-microsoft-novell-tech-cz_dl_1103linux_print.html The last line is the inspiration for my subject line. "Um, right. Unfortunately, the new ground they're breaking is probably Novell's gravesite." Fascinating. take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and 2nd eds) ? "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" ? "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 20:36:10 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:36:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ian Petersen writes: > Well, I _think_ the main point was about patents. I think Microsoft > is asserting that "Linux" (which probably means more than just the > kernel) contains code that infringes upon Microsoft's patents. If Using the Linux word as you and he uses the word is actually frowned upon. It's supposed to be called GNU/Linux. So Linux is mostly the kernel, although the aggregate is called Linux by users. And the GPL which covers most of the aggregate does not permit 'limitations' of the kind Ballmer assumes. I think that he sees Novell/Linux as a foot in the legal door into GPL land, using contributed non-open IP embracing and extending existing things. He is going to have to find out for himself what the US Government and AT&T found out when they made the original Unix source non-free 20 years ago. History tends to repeat itself when the patterns are sufficiently similar and the players suffciently ignorant or arrogant of relevant precedents. It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL embraced and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU legal wing into battle position. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 20:41:42 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 15:41:42 -0500 Subject: Novell breaks ground on its gravesite In-Reply-To: <454B6455.971B.00A2.0-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611031456.16106.mggagne@salmar.com> <454B6455.971B.00A2.0@novell.com> Message-ID: <1162586502.3931.23.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Customers are demanding choice in the market place. Involving the 800lb gorilla (Microsoft) in that process is like letting the fox guard the hen house. Novell's announcement shows lack of leadership and inexperience in business on the part of management. A very sad day for Novell indeed. RickT On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 13:46 -0700, Andrew Chung wrote: > Interesting take yes, unfortunately it is just an opinion not an > official statement. I did a quick search on Daniel Lyons and found > this article http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/174. > > "Forbes writer and fiction author Daniel Lyons' articles regularly > target Linux, free software, and companies that support Linux. So who > is Daniel Lyons, and what is the origin of his anti-Linux agenda? I > recently tried to find out." > > > Secondly, I'd like to clarify that Microsoft is NOT selling Linux as > the article states but have agreed to hand out 70k vouchers per year > to their customers to try out SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. MS will > still push windows as part of their business and Novell will push > Linux as part of their business. MS and Novell have come together as a > result of what the CUSTOMERS are demanding. Moreover, Daniel states > that Novell is responding to increasing competition from RedHat which > is also untrue as the growth numbers for SUSE vs RH will show you. > > > Feel free to email me personally if you have any more questions or > concerns about this partnership at achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > > Andrew Chung > > > >>> On Fri, Nov 3, 2006 at 2:56 PM, in message > <200611031456.16106.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>, Marcel Gagne (WFTL) > wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > Further to the whole Novell/Microsoft story, Forbes has just released > an > interesting take on the whole thing. Here's the printer friendly > version of > the story. > > http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/03/linux-microsoft-novell-tech-cz_dl_1103linux_print.html > > The last line is the inspiration for my subject line. > > "Um, right. Unfortunately, the new ground they're breaking is > probably > Novell's gravesite." > > Fascinating. take care out there. > > -- > Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? > Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. > Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ > Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! > "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and > 2nd eds) > "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" > "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" > Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 20:58:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:58:10 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061103205810.GO8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 08:36:10PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > Using the Linux word as you and he uses the word is actually frowned upon. It's > supposed to be called GNU/Linux. So Linux is mostly the kernel, although the > aggregate is called Linux by users. And the GPL which covers most of the > aggregate does not permit 'limitations' of the kind Ballmer assumes. I think > that he sees Novell/Linux as a foot in the legal door into GPL land, using > contributed non-open IP embracing and extending existing things. He is going to > have to find out for himself what the US Government and AT&T found out when they > made the original Unix source non-free 20 years ago. History tends to repeat > itself when the patterns are sufficiently similar and the players suffciently > ignorant or arrogant of relevant precedents. Some people don't give a darn what RMS thinks something should be called. Why not BSD/MIT/GNU/*/Linux while we are at it? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 03:53:58 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:53:58 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102204129.GI8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1162526039.32214.6.camel@neo> > On the other hand wouldn't it be nice if rogers wasn't allowed to slow > down people's bittorrent traffic? I think bit torrent is a bad case, in some ways, because it is really a stress tester, for consumer grade network. It is one thing leeching 1MB/s from some site, over TCP. It is another, having bazillion packets with wild variation in their parameters come to users. They would have to upgrade their routing equipment if they'd support torrents and they'd rather not do that. There IS now allowance of 100GB per user, so why not alleviate bt? because it is more then just bandwidth. Even reasonable home linksys routers have trouble dealing with couple of of BT downloads. Imagine with kind of load they have at CO. Yes I agree BT has pushed possibility of catching someone into another level, and so it has pushed the network as well. There are plenty of other interesting applications are at risk, if we aren't careful, all we have open to the internet is port 80 and friends. Technically they should loose their common carrier status, which they really don't want to do. 2cents, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 21:09:52 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:09:52 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061103210952.GA25032@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 08:36:10PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: >It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP >since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL embraced >and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU >legal wing into battle position. While what you write *should* be true, I can guarantee that it is not. Searching the USPTO for Microsoft and "memory" yields 27000+ hits, and that is in ISSUED patents. The USPTO are abject morons, but they call the shots, and it will take thousands of lawyer-years and billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars to sort it all out. The bars of "non-obviousness" and "prior art" are willfully ignored. Look at the abstract for this patent, for instance, issued this Hallowe'en: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=19&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=microsoft&s2=memory&OS=microsoft+AND+memory&RS=microsoft+AND+memory Patents are the enemy of free software, and they may yet win. I can easily imagine a day when I am only able to run free software behind hardened firewalls because it is illegal to own or run it. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 20:46:30 2006 From: achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Chung) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:46:30 -0700 Subject: Novell breaks ground on its gravesite In-Reply-To: <200611031456.16106.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611031456.16106.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <454B6455.971B.00A2.0@novell.com> Interesting take yes, unfortunately it is just an opinion not an official statement. I did a quick search on Daniel Lyons and found this article http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/174. "Forbes writer and fiction author Daniel Lyons' articles regularly target Linux, free software, and companies that support Linux. So who is Daniel Lyons, and what is the origin of his anti-Linux agenda? I recently tried to find out." Secondly, I'd like to clarify that Microsoft is NOT selling Linux as the article states but have agreed to hand out 70k vouchers per year to their customers to try out SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. MS will still push windows as part of their business and Novell will push Linux as part of their business. MS and Novell have come together as a result of what the CUSTOMERS are demanding. Moreover, Daniel states that Novell is responding to increasing competition from RedHat which is also untrue as the growth numbers for SUSE vs RH will show you. Feel free to email me personally if you have any more questions or concerns about this partnership at achung-Et1tbQHTxzrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Andrew Chung >>> On Fri, Nov 3, 2006 at 2:56 PM, in message <200611031456.16106.mggagne at salmar.com>, Marcel Gagne (WFTL) wrote: Hello everyone, Further to the whole Novell/Microsoft story, Forbes has just released an interesting take on the whole thing. Here's the printer friendly version of the story. http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/03/linux-microsoft-novell-tech-cz_dl_1103linux_print.html The last line is the inspiration for my subject line. "Um, right. Unfortunately, the new ground they're breaking is probably Novell's gravesite." Fascinating. take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and 2nd eds) "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 21:50:25 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:50:25 +0000 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution Message-ID: As various Warm Places have Frozen Over this week, that's not all the freezing taking place... The FSF has finally done what I think they should have done years ago. Rather than making futile noises about "you otta call it GNU/Linux," they should have set up a FSF/GNU distribution. Now they have: http://www.gnewsense.org/ -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 22:56:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:56:00 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454BC900.70801@telly.org> Peter P. wrote: > Using the Linux word as you and he uses the word is actually frowned upon. It's > supposed to be called GNU/Linux. Only by Stallmanists, who are welcome to that little rant so long as they keep it to themselves. Most of the normal world is quite happy with calling it "Linux" and not being lectured over their use of language. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 3 23:35:40 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:35:40 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <454BC900.70801-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <454BC900.70801@telly.org> Message-ID: <1162596940.4748.244.camel@stan64.site> just listening to Stallman rant about this on tllts the other day, assuming you have a graphics desktop, and you judge by lines of code, if you buy into Stallman's argument, should be calling it X-11 with a bit of GNU and Linux added in :) or X-gnu-linux i have just gotten so use to calling it Linux, why change now, i still call nose tissue ... kleenex, and snowmobiles ... skidoo's -tl On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 17:56 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Peter P. wrote: > > Using the Linux word as you and he uses the word is actually frowned upon. It's > > supposed to be called GNU/Linux. > Only by Stallmanists, who are welcome to that little rant so long as > they keep it to themselves. Most of the normal world is quite happy with > calling it "Linux" and not being lectured over their use of language. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 00:11:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:11:30 -0500 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> On 11/3/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > As various Warm Places have Frozen Over this week, that's not all the > freezing taking place... > > The FSF has finally done what I think they should have done years ago. > Rather than making futile noises about "you otta call it GNU/Linux," > they should have set up a FSF/GNU distribution. Now they have: > > http://www.gnewsense.org/ I don't understand the FSF connection. This seems to be another low-key remaster of an existing distribution. (Ubuntu) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 01:24:18 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:24:18 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611031724q2f8cce6brc568888e7aaa9c1c@mail.gmail.com> > > Well, I _think_ the main point was about patents. I think Microsoft > > is asserting that "Linux" (which probably means more than just the > > kernel) contains code that infringes upon Microsoft's patents. If > > Using the Linux word as you and he uses the word is actually frowned upon. It's > supposed to be called GNU/Linux. So Linux is mostly the kernel, although the > aggregate is called Linux by users. I know, which is why I put "Linux" in quotes and followed it with the parenthetical. I haven't watched the press conference more than once, so my memory of it is questionable, but, IIRC, Ballmer referred to "Linux" and I assumed he was using it to mean "free software", "open source software", "gratis software", or something other than just the kernel. He also referred to intellectual property--another term that RMS despises for its vagueness. I don't think Ballmer's up on the Free Software world's version of politically correct. (Or he willfully ignores it.) > And the GPL which covers most of the > aggregate does not permit 'limitations' of the kind Ballmer assumes. I disagree, or, at least, I wouldn't bet on it. The GPL says, basically, "I have own the copyrights to this work. If you abide by this list of rules, you have otherwise unfettered permission to do whatever you want with it." My understand of US law (which is hampered by me being neither American nor a lawyer) is that a person who creates a work that infringes on another's patent without permission does not have the authority to allow third parties to use that work. In fact, no one is even allowed to _create_ such a work, never mind use it or redistribute it. My understanding of the Microsoft-Novell agreement is that Microsoft is giving permission to Novell customers to use its patented "stuff" (alogrithms, whatever). Once a Novell customer has the right to use Microsoft's patents, the next part of the discussion is how, and, IMHO, _that_ is when the GPL becomes relevant. Of course, my education in law comes from TV and Slashdot, so who knows. > It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP > since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL embraced > and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU > legal wing into battle position. I agree that it is very unlikely that Microsoft could claim any copyrights on anything in the Linux kernel or much of anything that is commonly bundled with it. If anything the reverse is more likely. I also seriously doubt that Microsoft has any trademark claims on anything if the Free Software world. However, the third kind of "Intellectual Property" might be a bit of a problm. Given the nature of the American patent system, I would not be at all surprised if Microsoft could lay claim to any number of algorithms employed by some of the code in Linux or the apps that run on top of it. Not only that, but if you assume, for the sake of argument, that software patents ought to be granted, then the use of such patents in the Linux kernel may not even be defensible. Microsoft has certainly been awarded patents during the time that people have been developing the kernel. It's quite likely that something Microsoft "owns" was developed first at MS and implemented in the kernel later, so no one could even cry "prior art". The only other way to invalidate a patent that I'm aware of is to claim obviousness, which doesn't seem to work well in the US. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 01:43:59 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:43:59 -0500 Subject: FC6 bashrc file needed In-Reply-To: <1162403579.30329.89.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1162333073.21631.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <200610311738.40112.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1162345616.23333.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162346612.23333.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162349931.23854.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <1162403579.30329.89.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <1162604639.16928.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Thanks. I appreciate it. KB On Wed, 2006-11-01 at 12:52 -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 21:58 -0500, Ken Burtch wrote: > > If I build my open source software for FC6, I'll need to make > > sure /etc/bashrc isn't setting anything that might break my configure > > script. Otherwise, I agree. > > Here is the file that you originally asked for. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 02:00:17 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:00:17 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061103210952.GA25032-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061103210952.GA25032@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 11/3/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Patents are the enemy of free software, and they may yet win. I can > easily imagine a day when I am only able to run free software behind > hardened firewalls because it is illegal to own or run it. I can't, it's never going to get that bad, both because writers can work around patents and also because even the US will take notice that their IP laws are destroying their economy (lawmakers seem to be much better at noticing the negative aspects of disruptive change than at noticing the positive ones, likely because negative changes make people complain). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 05:11:54 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:11:54 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 08:36:10PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP > since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL embraced > and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU > legal wing into battle position. You've fallen into the trap of thinking that IP is a single coherent concept. It's not - it's a conglomerate of three drastically different concepts. There is copyright, that is the right of the author of a work to control (within certain limits) whether and how copies of the work are made. That's what you're referring to when you talk about the Unix ancestry. SCO is valiantly proving that Linux is not open to attack using copyright. There is trademark, which gives the some control over how a company's identity can be used. (It's more complicated than that but trademark is not really involved in the Novell-MS agreement.) Linspire has proven that Linux companies *are* subject to being attcked with trademark - but the fact that they just changed their name from Lindows and didn't get much additional penalty shows that the attack is not especially worrisome. Finally, there is patent, which gives the owner control over an idea; even if others have the same idea but are unable (or can't afford the court costs) to prove that it was a well-known or obvious idea before the patent was applied for. There is certainly reason to expect that Linux is susceptible to attack through patents; just how badly is still open to question but if Microsoft has a patent on some especially critical concept, it could be crippling for Linux. More likely are that MS has lots of nasty patents that , while they can be worked around, it can only be done with a bunch of work and end up with worse code that is less interoperable with any commercial code that makes use of the petent. This is the core of the Novell-MS agreement. Offhand, I'm hoping that Eben Moglen's statement that Novell might have put themselves into a position in which they cannot legally distribute GPL-software that is covered by the patents they have attained rights too, since they are unable to pass on the right to use the patents to the extent required by the GPL. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. If it is proven to be true, it will provide fuel for those who claim that the GPL is a virus. (They'll be wrong - you can have proprietary code, and you can have GPL code, but you can't merge the two and treat it a single entity. The proprietary code is just a viral as the GPL code in that scenario.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 09:55:28 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:55:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <454BC900.70801@telly.org> <1162596940.4748.244.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > just listening to Stallman rant about this on tllts the other day, > assuming you have a graphics desktop, > and you judge by lines of code, > if you buy into Stallman's argument, should be calling it > X-11 with a bit of GNU and Linux added in :) > or X-gnu-linux > > i have just gotten so use to calling it Linux, why change now, > i still call nose tissue ... kleenex, and snowmobiles ... skidoo's Those would be two very successfully marketed brand names which were insufficiently defended at the time and are now in the public domain ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 15:00:44 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 10:00:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061104051154.GA29541-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: | From: John Macdonald | You've fallen into the trap of thinking that IP is a single | coherent concept. It's not - it's a conglomerate of three | drastically different concepts. Don't forget "trade secret" protection. One would think that once others knew your secret, you'd have lost it, but that doesn't seem to be the whole story. And glueing this stuff together is licensing. Many odd examples: like the MS Kerberos changes that were disclosed in a document with a click through license (apparently: I'd never click through it). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 14:05:06 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:05:06 -0500 Subject: Chris Bliss - juggler extraordinaire In-Reply-To: <454B88FC.7040702-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <454B88FC.7040702@qef.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611040605q2054d103h3d77b357281c0b17@mail.gmail.com> On 11/3/06, David Tilbrook wrote: > This I have to share -- it's amazing: > > http://coolsite.com/chris_bliss.html ... whoa -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 14:14:42 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 14:14:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: John Macdonald writes: > On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 08:36:10PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > > It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP > > since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL > > embraced > > and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU > > legal wing into battle position. > > You've fallen into the trap of thinking that IP is a single > coherent concept. It's not - it's a conglomerate of three > drastically different concepts. I don't think that I have fallen into that trap. GPL is a license and I referred to that license and especially to its effect wrt. 'aggregate works' (which covers the extending part of 'embracing and extending' for most practical purposes imho). > There is trademark, which gives the some control over how a > company's identity can be used. (It's more complicated than > that but trademark is not really involved in the Novell-MS > agreement.) Linspire has proven that Linux companies *are* > subject to being attcked with trademark - but the fact that > they just changed their name from Lindows and didn't get much > additional penalty shows that the attack is not especially > worrisome. First of all Windows is a proof of the fact that dictionary words in common use can be trademarked, even if they were already used in the sense implied by the trademark when the trademark was applied for and granted (the word was used by Apple in their OS and by Xerox et al as such at the time when MS applied for the trademark for Windows, and it was well-known in the 'art') (and it also proved that a trademark that could never have been registered in an EC country can be upheld in it [3]). Second, Lindows proved that variations on trademarked dictionary words are enforceable although the trademark is on 'MS Windows' and Lindows does not contain the word 'MS' or the word 'Microsoft'. Third, Linspire proved what you said in a backward sort of way (Microsoft settled at a loss [2]), but it also exposed the fact that the depth of the pockets of the accuser defines how far and for how long the defendant can be chased, and that the barriers against leakage abroad (to the EC no less) from the currently flawed US system are nonexistant (reference to [3]). Now, how does that rhyme with equality in front of the law ? It is interesting that Linspire did/does exactly what the Ballmer/Novell duet promises to do in the future (and what Xenix, Microsoft's aborted Unix version, developed afaik by SCO, did in the past for DOS and Unix interoperability, before Xenix being dropped by Microsoft and following Microsoft using SCO as a failed Corax on IBM and Novell). Older but good articles describe this better (2002, before MS lost/won anyway): http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-893895.html [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linspire @Litigation... [3] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/30/microsoft_wins_lindows_fight/ > Finally, there is patent, which gives the owner control over > an idea; even if others have the same idea but are unable (or > can't afford the court costs) to prove that it was a well-known > or obvious idea before the patent was applied for. There is In most places on this planet it is not reasonable to assume that a public domain object, or something that has been in use for some time and is well-known in the 'art' can be patented because it is 'novel' or has a 'novel application', regardless of how much money the applicant has or how many times (and in how many places) he tries to apply (and regardless if he tries to apply directly or through lobby organisations, like 'copyright protection leagues' financed by record and movie companies). That applies for procedures (and algorythms), and dictionary words (and their plurals) as well. Most electronics companies have gotten the message and changed their names accordingly. Unsurprisingly, those are no longer dictionary words, nor common names, even if theor developer's and founder's names had to be dropped (perhaps this is related to the fact that they prefer to spend their money on R&D as opposed to tiying up the legal system with lawsuits against John Does whose domain names resemble their own too much). ON Semiconductor (maybe a less fortunate one), Renesas, Freescale, Agilent you name them, they have all changed. The reason is that most sane people will laugh incontrollably at any attempts to patent a microscope used to drive in nails as a 'novel method for using microscopes and nails', and refer the applicant to www.halfbakery.com, and the same thing applies for double clicks and business administration methods per se (as opposed to implementations thereof - f.ex. a novelty product representing a specially reinforced microscope designed to withstand driving nails in with would be patentable, and so would be a particular mouse implementation (the device) that uses double clicks for a specific purpose, as opposed to the well-known principle of single, double (and multiple) activations of a control element for the purpose of conveying different signals with the same element - be they buying signals, or something else). Even 'Spam' was declared a common word recently, although that was definitely not a dictionary word. There are only a few dinosaurs left, resisting this. Windows is one of the larger ones. Imho, the writing is on the wall. And, by the way, 'Linux', the word, could go the same way if some packaging efforts are not made. That could allow the Ballmer/Novell duet, and others, to use the name Linux anyway, even if infringing the GPL. Does anybody want that ? I do not. So that's why names are important and using the right name is important (this note is for Lennart - it is not at all important what RMS thinks, it is important what the judge will think when he will face that in this context). All one can hope is, that sanity will prevail eventually. In a sense, the US is very advanced in the IP/trademark/patent domain, so advanced in fact, that there are many things in the system that have serious flaws and were never or insufficiently tested by time (they are being tested now, by these lawsuits). In a way the current trademark and IP wars are that testing, and the companies which get burned in the process are the early worms which get eaten, as the saying goes. I also think that these proceedings must be watched from a distance and allowed to take their course, and that their conclusions should not be exported to other places too soon (as in, years or decades), especially as most other countries cannot afford to support disastrous year-long lawsuits and litigations that are sometimes baseless and often lead nowhere. This alone is imho a very good reason to limit the damage to the proving grounds, which is inside the 20-mile zone of the country that has chosen to allow these trials to take place on its territory (and is not even consistent on that, since legislation inside the US varies from state to state), and pay the price for the inconvenience they cause (see Blackberry blackout and forcibly abandoned Lindows users among others, to stay on topic). > certainly reason to expect that Linux is susceptible to attack > through patents; just how badly is still open to question but > if Microsoft has a patent on some especially critical concept, > it could be crippling for Linux. More likely are that MS has > lots of nasty patents that , while they can be worked around, > it can only be done with a bunch of work and end up with worse > code that is less interoperable with any commercial code that > makes use of the petent. This is the core of the Novell-MS > agreement. Offhand, I'm hoping that Eben Moglen's statement > that Novell might have put themselves into a position in which > they cannot legally distribute GPL-software that is covered by > the patents they have attained rights too, since they are unable > to pass on the right to use the patents to the extent required > by the GPL. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. > If it is proven to be true, it will provide fuel for those who > claim that the GPL is a virus. (They'll be wrong - you can > have proprietary code, and you can have GPL code, but you can't > merge the two and treat it a single entity. The proprietary > code is just a viral as the GPL code in that scenario.) I am not qualified to judge what a good patent is, and I am not a lawyer, but as recent (f.ex. Canadian, see RIM) history shows, the US type of patent and IP law that currently exists is not good for nearly everyone else, and not even for themselves, according to what some authors write. Also monster lawsuits like the SCO/Novell/IBM one over Linux, which turned out to be mostly a hoax and lasted three years, is not something that other countries can afford to tie up their industries with, and be used not as a lawsuit, but as a political weapon, spreading FUD and influencing and manipulating developers and investors, and possibly destroying local industry for years and causing unemployment and capital emigration and brain drain. It is reasonable to assume that the powers that be from elsewhere (for example from Canada, where this mailing list is hosted, and from the EU, where a Dutch judge muzzled Lindows a few years ago) are following the issues and that they will not allow the flaws in that patent and IP system to propagate outside the borders of the US, and especially not within their own borders if they can help it. This probably includes most RIAA and MPAA-related 'media taxes', DRM, and the like, which were taken over literally from that system without any impartial testing, and caused and still cause endless scandals where they are applied. These are unproven technologies coming 'hot' and unproven from the melting pot/proving grounds which are the US in this domain now, and any early adopters are bound to discover the flaws rather sooner than later, exactly as they have so far. That includes lawsuits brought against children, attempts at subpoenaing computers belonging to research institutions and government departments for 'searching', and worse, outside the US, by US-led 'legal consortiums' for suspicion of their being used to 'download stuff', and other embarassments, like having any computer running Windows with auto-update (and any computer, not just Windows, using auto-update for any software on it, such as anti-virus software and web browsers, yes that includes Firefox and Mozilla on Linux and *BSD incidentally, sorry about that) on being subject to be loaded with any software the originating company designates as an 'update', where the originating company is under US or other jurisdiction and the receiving computer is somewhere else, and the updates are almost invaraibly binary and not transparent to the user. Or the fact that this (automatic updating and registration) is mandatory for survival on the internet, and will be more so in the future, or so the new EULA says. Who is going to verify that a 140MB service pack does not contain a trojan that transmits sensitive data to 'home base' using perhaps subliminal coding in browser request headers for only 15 computers, exactly three times for each, at a random time after the upgrade for each, the computers belonging to a certain domain of another country. The patch (pardon, service pack) would be identical for the remaining 100 million downloaders, yet it would do nothing in their cases. And if it does not contain a trojan today, who is going to check the next service pack ? So one should watch with interest what is happening, and carry on as usual (and lobby one's lawmakers whenever they are about to put on that particular yoke). As far as I am concerned, Linux is a Finnish product developed in a certified white room. The 16 years of subsequent developments are improvements are aggregate works and must abide by the original (GPL) license. I have a right to an opinion like everyone else has. As to viral genome, I think that the GPL gene causes less damage, and often out-of-court settlements within a shorter time than the current USPTO gene which is proven to generate year-long billion-dollar border-crossing industry-crippling lawsuits over next to nothing, and additionally ipset customers, investors and developers. If there is to be a genetic selection, then the GPL should prevail as the more benign of the two, and the more damaging strain remain quarantined in the legal area where it broke out until it will become recessive or be superseded by something more sane and less dangerous and costly. In the bigger picture, hardware linux aggregators have often been in the position of GPL infringement. Equally often they have yielded and instead of pulling products they have complied and went on to become best sellers (see Linksys routers which have a special version that is still marketed specifically because it can run Linux, and others). Code inspection technology precludes 'hiding' extensions to GPL code and thus it is a question of when, not whether plagiates are discovered. How these are handled is a legal issue which, for most people who do not live in, or develop in or under US jurisdiction, shold not depend on US jurisdiction, but on that of their own countries, hopefully with such systems that rich bullies cannot be more equal than others. Peter P. PS: Sorry for the long post, it will only happen seldomly. PS2: I have an idea for a Halloween trick that could be good for OSS developer friends - a little late for this year though - Put on a blue shirt over your clothes, daub some water on it and on your forehead so you appear to be sweaty, then when the door opens and you get to do the trick, run three times in a circle smiling extatically and shout 'Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft in a hoarse voice'. Instant success/FUD should be assured. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 14:24:50 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 09:24:50 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: <20061104051154.GA29541-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <454CA2B2.1070309@telly.org> John Macdonald wrote: > There is copyright, that is the right of the author of a work > to control (within certain limits) whether and how copies of > the work are made. That's what you're referring to when you > talk about the Unix ancestry. SCO is valiantly proving that > Linux is not open to attack using copyright. > That may be more due to SCO's incompetence than anything else. We may never know if indeed Linux, in some corner of its code, contains bits that were "more than inspired" by Unix. All we know is that SCO is incapable of proving that, and that they chose as their target a company that employs more lawyers than SCO has staff. > There is trademark, which gives the some control over how a company's identity can be used. (It's more complicated than that but trademark is not really involved in the Novell-MS agreement.) Linspire has proven that Linux companies *are* subject to being attcked with trademark - but the fact that they just changed their name from Lindows and didn't get much additional penalty shows that the attack is not especially worrisome. > Even so, Lindows' capitulation was more a matter of expediency than illegality. The term "Windows" could be easily be proven to be generic enough (and used in other products such as the X Window System) that Lindows would have probably prevailed had they stuck it out. But MS was prepared to engage in an expensive, multi-country legal battle and it was easier to retreat than fight. It's interesting to note that trademarks have been of relatively little concern in the community. The trademarking of "Linux" was done as a defensive act (see http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2559), and few open source projects have bothered with the effort. An attempt by OSI to trademark "open source" was (thankfully) rejected -- it's unclear whether that was due to a technicality or because the term was not able to be trademarked. Only OSI knows and they're not telling. > Finally, there is patent, which gives the owner control over an idea; To be more accurate, you can't patent the idea, only its application in a real-world scenario. Abstract ideas themselves are not patentable, and IIRC only the US allows patenting of mathematical forumlae. > even if others have the same idea but are unable (or can't afford the court costs) to prove that it was a well-known or obvious idea before the patent was applied for. The biggest impediment to justice is the injunction, the fact that the patent holder can go to court and legally prevent their target from selling the (allegedly infringing) products or services until the issue is resolved. > There is certainly reason to expect that Linux is susceptible to attack through patents; just how badly is still open to question but if Microsoft has a patent on some especially critical concept, it could be crippling for Linux. Since we're talking about the difference between trademark, copyright and patents, it should be noted that there is no international synchronization of patents as exists with copyrights. Something that is patented in the US may not even be patentable in Canada or the EU, and pure software patents fall into this category. You could have a worst-case scenario in which certain parts of FOSS are illegal to use in the US but absolutely unencumbered outside. That sucks for Red Hat and Novell, but offers a great opportunity to others such as Ubuntu, Red Flag and Xandros (which is headquartered in the US, but produced in Canada and mainly sold to Europe). > Offhand, I'm hoping that Eben Moglen's statement that Novell might have put themselves into a position in which they cannot legally distribute GPL-software that is covered by the patents they have attained rights too, since they are unable to pass on the right to use the patents to the extent required Moglen's commentary is irrelevant. It is Microsoft, a third party not bound by the GPL, which is offering the indemnification -- not Novell, the distributor of the code in question. IIRC Novell has not IMO aquired enforcement rights themselves; it is only if/when _Novell_ threatens to sue patent infringers -- which would never happen -- that Moglen's assertions would have any value. Evan Leibovitch co-inventor, U.S. Patent *5,579,117 * -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 14:40:01 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 14:40:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <1bb290611031100o65107216r552379962308bee1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Simone Richard writes: > > I'd be interested to know what role IBM's support for open source and > Linux has had on Microsoft. Likewise for IBM's support of the Service > Oriented Architecture, which commoditizes operating systems and > databases (hello Oracle). I think that IBM is right at home doing SOA because that is what their mainframes have been doing all the time. I think that the SOA application to open source is just a remake of this. And IBM is probably in a postion to do this right because they have 40 years of statistics and data on such distributed systems with 'intelligent terminals' (said as an euphemism). > It might be the case that Microsoft is considering a road map that > would devalue its OS business (commoditize it) and shift most MS > resources into SOA-type applications. I think that MS OSes are at the point where they need to decide how to continue. This year for the first time the price of a OS license almost equals or exceeds the price of the hardware required to run it. So the OS may become more important than the box (but it will still remain second to the data that is kept on the box in value). With a tightening of anti-piracy measures trying to stem the damage from pirated software MS cannot afford to have a strong competitor under-selling it and at the same time outclassing it (Linux) or competing with it for quality and stability (Lindows/Linspire). So the war is on, and the Novell partnership may be a foot in the door. Of course if Novell is not careful it will have things like the OS/2 story or the Xenix story happening to it before too long (in fact it has already had the SCO story happening to it). One tends to get stepped on when waltzing with a huge partner, even if the crunch is unintentional. And I don't think that there is such a thing as 'being too careful' in this case. Also I think that MS cannot commodize its OS because it has no alternatives like IBM). The current partnership may mean a step in the direction of building that option. As usual, the SOA is not a MS idea and they will have to 'reinvent' it with predictable consequences for reliability and serviceability imho. Also as usual their first step in 'rebranding' involves a coalition with someone who already knows how to do the job (Novell was Mr. Networks until not too long ago imho). The good (?) joke would be if MS would eventually buy out Novell (just suppose) and become owners of certain Unix patents and trademarks, and of SuSe Linux at the same time. That would force some interesting decisions wrt. SuSe Linux kernel imho. Other interesting item: Novell partnered with RIM to distribute its products before the RIM injunction. As such they probably know how to weather a legal situation like that of the RIM problem in the US. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 08:33:14 2006 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 03:33:14 -0500 Subject: GRUB Message-ID: <454C504A.4050408@taylors.ca> I fouled up my bootloader and can't see one of the Operating Systems. I reinstalled Linux and the boot loader, I think I erased something. GRUB was`setup using the MBR. Here is menu.lst timeout 15 color cyan/blue white/blue foreground ffffff background 0639a1 gfxmenu /boot/grub/message title MEPIS at sda3, kernel 2.6.15-1-586tsc kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-1-586tsc root=/dev/sda3 nomce quiet vga=791 title MEMTEST kernel /boot/memtest86.bin my disk is partitioned into sda1 fat 16 Windows XP sda2 formated as fat16 sda3 linux ext3 Mepis sda4 swap If some could tell me where I went wrong and point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks -- Jim Taylor v 416-651-1967 f 416-651-8691 jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 15:32:07 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 10:32:07 -0500 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <454C504A.4050408-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <454C504A.4050408@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <454CB277.1010701@utoronto.ca> jim wrote: > I fouled up my bootloader and can't see one of the Operating Systems. > I reinstalled Linux and the boot loader, I think I erased something. > GRUB was`setup using the MBR. > > Here is menu.lst > > timeout 15 > color cyan/blue white/blue > foreground ffffff > background 0639a1 > > gfxmenu /boot/grub/message > > title MEPIS at sda3, kernel 2.6.15-1-586tsc > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-1-586tsc root=/dev/sda3 nomce quiet vga=791 > title MEMTEST > kernel /boot/memtest86.bin > > my disk is partitioned into > sda1 fat 16 Windows XP > sda2 formated as fat16 > sda3 linux ext3 Mepis > sda4 swap > > If some could tell me where I went wrong and point > me in the right direction I would appreciate it. > Thanks > Try adding this on the line after your title, it tells grub where to look for said kernel (and initrd if you had one): root (hd0,2) So you would have this for Linux title MEPIS at sda3, kernel 2.6.15-1-586tsc root (hd0,2) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-1-586tsc root=/dev/sda3 nomce quiet vga=791 boot And likely this for Windows root (hd0,0) chainloader +1 boot Not sure if the "boot" lines are necessary, but I've got them and I don't think they hurt. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 16:44:47 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 11:44:47 -0500 Subject: ot: diagnosing hardware problem on a tablet Message-ID: <20061104114447.1drs8why18g0g4c0@webmail.utoronto.ca> hi folks, my dad is visiting and has brought his old toshiba tablet, which I had hoped to convert to a drawing & surfing tool for my daughter. unfortunately there seem t o be some serious problems with it. It currently has windoze installed (not sure which version, probably 2000) and POSTs fine, but will not boot up properly. sometimes I get a "disk not ready" error and sometimes it boots into a "windows was not closed properly last time do you want to start in safe mode" screen, after which it hangs. \My first thought was that this was a disk failure problem. since there's no cd drive on this machine, I put debian-live on a bootable usb key and tried to boot from it, but noticed no change in the machine's behaviour. THe thing goes so amazingly slowly that I'm thinking there might be something even more fundamental wrong -- bad memory, maybe, or some kind of damage to the mainboard. anyway, i'm wondering whether anyone knows how to diagnose this kind of problem when I can't get any kind of OS to boot. thanks as always! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 17:22:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:22:35 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <1162526039.32214.6.camel@neo> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1162526039.32214.6.camel@neo> Message-ID: <20061104172235.GP8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 10:53:58PM -0500, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > I think bit torrent is a bad case, in some ways, because it is really a > stress tester, for consumer grade network. It is one thing leeching > 1MB/s from some site, over TCP. It is another, having bazillion packets > with wild variation in their parameters come to users. They would have > to upgrade their routing equipment if they'd support torrents and they'd > rather not do that. There IS now allowance of 100GB per user, so why not > alleviate bt? because it is more then just bandwidth. Even reasonable > home linksys routers have trouble dealing with couple of of BT > downloads. Imagine with kind of load they have at CO. Bittorrent is just traffic like anything else. It is not a problem for any sanely designed router. Even my USR8054 wireless rouer has absolutely no problem with a lot of active bittorrents. The linksys running vxworks apparently can have trouble even handling a couple of http connections at once, so well that isn't bittorrent's fault, just lousy design. > Yes I agree BT has pushed possibility of catching someone into another > level, and so it has pushed the network as well. Every packet a router gets has a source and destination. Route it based on that. Whether it is 100 packets from one stream, or 1 packet from each of a 100 streams makes no difference at all. The only time it matters is if you start to do connection tracking, NAT, firewalling, etc, which is not the business of the ISP. Right now they seem to be putting a lot of resources into inspecting traffic just so they can make bittorrent slower. It would take a lot less resources to do nothing. > There are plenty of other interesting applications are at risk, if we > aren't careful, all we have open to the internet is port 80 and friends. > Technically they should loose their common carrier status, which they > really don't want to do. You would think they don't want to. Who knows. They can always spend more money on lobying. Often seems to work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 17:43:36 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:43:36 -0500 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061104174336.GQ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 07:11:30PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I don't understand the FSF connection. This seems to be another > low-key remaster of an existing distribution. (Ubuntu) Ubuntu with all the firmware blobs and other binary blobs removed. So kind of like what Debian itself is aiming towards. Although I guess being FSF they think the gnu documentation files can be included but firmware can not. :) Debian of course wants neither in the end. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 17:46:26 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:46:26 -0500 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <454C504A.4050408-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <454C504A.4050408@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <20061104174626.GR8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 04, 2006 at 03:33:14AM -0500, jim wrote: > I fouled up my bootloader and can't see one of the Operating Systems. > I reinstalled Linux and the boot loader, I think I erased something. > GRUB was`setup using the MBR. > > Here is menu.lst > > timeout 15 > color cyan/blue white/blue > foreground ffffff > background 0639a1 > > gfxmenu /boot/grub/message > > title MEPIS at sda3, kernel 2.6.15-1-586tsc > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-1-586tsc root=/dev/sda3 nomce quiet vga=791 > > title MEMTEST > kernel /boot/memtest86.bin > > my disk is partitioned into > sda1 fat 16 Windows XP > sda2 formated as fat16 > sda3 linux ext3 Mepis > sda4 swap > > If some could tell me where I went wrong and point > me in the right direction I would appreciate it. What happens when you try to boot? You didn't mention any error messages or anything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 14:35:28 2006 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 09:35:28 -0500 Subject: GRUB Message-ID: <454CA530.5010007@taylors.ca> Thank you for your help. One little line in the congiguration fixed it all. -- Jim Taylor v 416-651-1967 f 416-651-8691 jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 21:13:33 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 16:13:33 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > Have you thought about getting a Nokia 770? Most people I've talked to > haven't heard of it. > > 800x480 screen size > 250MHz (I think) TI OMAP 1710, ARM core + C55x DSP + other stuff > 802.11g wireless + Bluetooth > speaker, mic, 3.5mm audio jack, RS-MMC slot, which you can find 2GB > cards for (need a kernel patch to go above 1GB, but this works fine, I > have a 2GB card) > > On top of that hardware, it runs a derivative of Debian, has apt and a > GUI frontend to apt, and comes with a couple of closed-source > components, like the web browser. The other reason why I mention it > is that at $350 USD, it's cheaper than most or all of the handhelds > you mention. Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 22:10:39 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 17:10:39 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <454D0FDF.10102@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > I just wrote my MP and told him I support net neutrality. When you do that, you may want to mention Almon Strowger, who invented telephone dialing, because the phone operators were redirecting his calls for his undertaker business to competitors. He was one of the first advocates of "net neutrality", to keep the phone company from interfering with his business. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 4 23:10:14 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:10:14 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <20061102204129.GI8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <454D1DD6.6020204@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:50:16AM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: >> I just wrote my MP and told him I support net neutrality. > > Too bad net neutrality kills a bunch of neat applications for the > internet, like streaming video, VoIP, and many others. ToS is part of > the internet, although not often used that much. True net neutrality > means ToS can never be used for anything. Don't confuse net neutrality with quality of service. For example an ISP might charge more for better voice over IP performance. Provided that charge applied equally to all VoIP suppliers, that might be acceptable. However, if an ISP favours their VoIP over a competitor's then there's a problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 00:35:54 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 19:35:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up Message-ID: <20061105003554.25709.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern today with the KnoppMyth install event. I had expected maybe 5 people to show (seven or so people had expressed interest before the event, and I thought 1-2 would drop out at the last minute). Now, I am not sure as to a total body count, as some people came/went and I had my hands full. Still there were points where I counted 12 people in the room. I had a box to show-off a basic KnoppMyth install and there were 3 other machines that came into the office (Hugh I gather brought more than one machine down in his car, but he only brought one PC into the office). There was some trouble with the Internet connection into the room we were in, and I am afraid I didn't have time to diagnose the problem then/there. So, limited demo of the TV listing and MythWeather. There was some interest in doing another similar event, and I would be game to do that, just not in the centre of the city (Seneca College? Centennial College? IBM up on Steeles? somewhere in the west end of the city?). I did pick-up some goodies for the group (a box of no-name donut holes, some coffee, some milk, a jug of spring water) which all seemed to go over well. Turns out Linuxcaffe would have been a problem site for this event, just too small for the size of crowd that showed up. My original plan was to have done this in the lobby of 169 Eastern, in the end we used the lunchroom which was a good size venue given the number of people that were there. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 01:13:11 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:13:11 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <20061105003554.25709.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061105003554.25709.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 04/11/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Now, I am not sure as to a total body count, as some people > came/went and I had my hands full. Still there were > points where I counted 12 people in the room. Excellent ! > > Turns out Linuxcaffe would have been a problem site > for this event, just too small for the size of crowd > that showed up. My original plan was to have done this > in the lobby of 169 Eastern, in the end we used the > lunchroom which was a good size venue given the number > of people that were there. I disagree, Colin, we've had groups of 18 enthusiasts in the back (our legal capacity is <30) and it's quite intimate and workable. We've got 3 ISPs, (at the moment) with two separate wide-open WiFi access points and cat5 switches and power in every corner. We can rearrange tables in any number of configurations, the projector is all set up and ready, with full control of lighting and sound. The dark organic coffees, sandwiches and pastries seem to go over well. Folks can rent a laptop, and the most recent linux distros are local and ready to burn. linuxcaffe is central, there's a bus stop at our door, a subway stop one block away and parking. And last, but not least, we go out of our way to invite groups of open source enthusiasts to gather here. The venue IS suitable. That sort of thing happens here, in fact, the ubuntu-ca group is putting together an Ubuntu for N00bs Workshop next week (stay tuned for exact time) So I'm delighted that your event was a success, you are of course free to do it wherever you like, but please don't knock the caffe, as a potential spot for that sort of thing. It makes me sad. :-( ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 01:51:09 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain maisonneuve) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:51:09 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <20061105003554.25709.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061105003554.25709.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Collin, thanks very much i had fun. It was great to meet everyone. If you do another one of those let me know i will definitively be interested. cheers, Alain On 4-Nov-06, at 7:35 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern today with > the KnoppMyth install event. > > I had expected maybe 5 people to show (seven or so > people had expressed interest before the event, and I > thought 1-2 would drop out at the last minute). Now, I > am not sure as to a total body count, as some people > came/went and I had my hands full. Still there were > points where I counted 12 people in the room. I had a > box to show-off a basic KnoppMyth install and there > were 3 other machines that came into the office (Hugh > I gather brought more than one machine down in his > car, but he only brought one PC into the office). > > There was some trouble with the Internet connection > into the room we were in, and I am afraid I didn't > have time to diagnose the problem then/there. So, > limited demo of the TV listing and MythWeather. > > There was some interest in doing another similar > event, and I would be game to do that, just not in the > centre of the city (Seneca College? Centennial > College? IBM up on Steeles? somewhere in the west end > of the city?). > > I did pick-up some goodies for the group (a box of > no-name donut holes, some coffee, some milk, a jug of > spring water) which all seemed to go over well. > > Turns out Linuxcaffe would have been a problem site > for this event, just too small for the size of crowd > that showed up. My original plan was to have done this > in the lobby of 169 Eastern, in the end we used the > lunchroom which was a good size venue given the number > of people that were there. > > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 02:53:39 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 21:53:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? Message-ID: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? >From the Firefox web site the Windows upgrade is a one-button click and proceeds seamlessly. The Linux upgrade requires manual intervention and comes with essentially *no* information. The new files have a different configuration than the old ones, so it's not a simple replacement. Grrr. Or can this somehow be done automagically via the Suse web site? Pointers appreciated... Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 05:04:49 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 00:04:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: | Reply-To: | To: | Subject: [TLUG]: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? | | Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to | step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? | | >From the Firefox web site the Windows upgrade is a one-button click and | proceeds seamlessly. | | The Linux upgrade requires manual intervention and comes with essentially | *no* information. The new files have a different configuration than the | old ones, so it's not a simple replacement. Grrr. | | Or can this somehow be done automagically via the Suse web site? | | Pointers appreciated... 1) as far as I can tell, there isn't much reason to update from 1.5.0.7 to 2.0. There are few improvements. Some things that were add-ons are now standard. 2) you could easily add firefox 2.0 to your system without replacing the one that is part of your distro. You might even be able to remove the old firefox package (this depends on dependencies). 3) to update the actual installation package, you probably need to wait for SuSE to issue the update. Otherwise the packaging system will get confused (and you will pay for that in pain somehow). The new firefox is easy to tack onto your system: - download the tar file. - unpack it somewhere (your choice, but don't step on existing files) - it unpacks into a directory "firefox" - if the directory is /my/silly/spot/firefox, then you run this firefox by typing /my/silly/spot/firefox/firefox to shell (or the moral equivalent). Note: firefox and mozilla startup scripts are annoyingly smart. If a copy of firefox or mozilla is running, invoking the startup script will just get another window from the running copy. This prevents you from running two different versions at the same time. In fact, if you try to run firefox on another machine, with your machine as the display server, it will reach across the wire and just create another window on a firefox or mozila running on your local machine. And then complain when file:// URLs don't work. For extra points, figure out how to install flash. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 06:05:41 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 01:05:41 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sat, Nov 04, 2006 at 02:14:42PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > > John Macdonald writes: > > > On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 08:36:10PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > > > It is extremely unlikely that any part of 'Linux' contains any Microsoft IP > > > since it has BSD Unix and U.C.Berkeley etc ancestry. Also anything GPL > > > embraced > > > and extended and republished with another license is going to place the GNU > > > legal wing into battle position. > > > > You've fallen into the trap of thinking that IP is a single > > coherent concept. It's not - it's a conglomerate of three > > drastically different concepts. > > I don't think that I have fallen into that trap. GPL is a license and I referred > to that license and especially to its effect wrt. 'aggregate works' (which > covers the extending part of 'embracing and extending' for most practical > purposes imho). The license of the GPL allows people to take actions that copyright restrions would normally only permit if they get explicit permission from the owner of the copyright. If you don't accept the terms of the license, you didn't have the right to make a copy. But, if code covered by GPL can be claimed to carry out a process that is covered by a patent, copying the code is not an issue, and permission from the author is irrelevant (unless the author also is enforcing the patent). The GPL can be used to force the owner of the patent to stop copying the GPL code, but if the patent owner doesn't care about distributing GPL code that threat is especially hollow. Microsoft has been getting over a thousand patents per year, (thats the ones they apply for and get themselves, they also buy lots of them). It is absolutely certain that Linux contains code that accomplishes tasks that are covered by patents that MS owns. In most cases, the patent is absurd - but it takes a lot of work and money to challenge each one. There can be expensive court orders that do things like prevent sales - even if you eventually win the challenge, not being able to operate your business for the duration can be devastating. And, maybe, a few of those patents will fail to be challenged successfully. That leads to trying to code around a concept, which is harder than just rewriting the code independently. Or it leads to having a U.S. fork and a rest-of-the-world fork. That would be painful and hurt Linux badly. MS would have to be careful about how they carry out such an attack. The European anti-trust actions seem to have some teeth to them; and maybe someday the U.S. anti-trust process will kick in again and find a government willing to back it up instead of merely a slap on the wrist. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 05:33:37 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 00:33:37 -0500 Subject: Mythtv and Bell Expressvu for condos-vdsl channel tuning Message-ID: As some of you know I been having some channel tuning problems. Because the Mythtv and Hauppage themselves alone cannot change the channels on some set-top cable boxes. (Motorola may refer to it as DCT2500, or very similar) The RG-2400V DCT2500 seems to be relatively common. The RG-2400V that Bell provides seems to require an IRblaster Until I can find an IR blaster that will work for the RG-2400V/Hauppage PVR-250, I seem to have found something that seems to work. What is it? The AUTOTUNE capabilities of the Bell ExpressVu for Condos. The autotune works because it is the RG2400V cable box that has been programmed to change the channel, and it does automatically changes the channel 2 minutes before an AUTOTUNE SCHEDULE is due to start. And since MythTV is always on channel 13, then it works! I still cannot use "Program Guide" of course. --------------------------------------- I have to MANUALLY SCHEDULE the mythtv default's "channel 13" at day X, time Y, for Z minutes to match the AUTOTUNE schedule. (either a one-time or re-occurring recording) --------------------------------------- The nice part of this, is I believe the AUTOTUNE will work on each of the 3 TV stations that VDSL uses. In this case channels 3,8 and 13. In other words I believe I could built 3 Mythtv box's and use AUTOTUNE to record 3 programs at once. I am not sure if other VDSL/cable set-box's have AUTOTUNE or the equivalent built into their systems, but it would be a good bet that they do. Now, I just schedule MythTV to match the AUTOTUNE summary page. AUTOTUNE can do a one time or based on a schedule. (Just make sure you AUTOTUNE only only programs in the future. If you do it for the current time slot, autotune is greyed out. I will still get an IR-blaster for the RG-2400V, but only when I find one that will work. I was told today at the KnoppMyth event that the "us-cable" setting works for Rogers cable. Must be nice :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 07:12:58 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 02:12:58 -0500 Subject: Mythtv and Bell Expressvu for condos-vdsl channel tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32f6a8880611042312t185b8d77pef247d73419af707@mail.gmail.com> I hear mythtv can use HD digital boxes... and use firewire instead of Ir blasters.. thats something to look into On 11/5/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > As some of you know I been having some channel tuning problems. > Because the Mythtv and Hauppage themselves alone cannot change the > channels on some set-top cable boxes. > (Motorola may refer to it as DCT2500, or very similar) > The RG-2400V DCT2500 seems to be relatively common. > The RG-2400V that Bell provides seems to require an IRblaster > > Until I can find an IR blaster that will work for the RG-2400V/Hauppage > PVR-250, > I seem to have found something that seems to work. > > What is it? > The AUTOTUNE capabilities of the Bell ExpressVu for Condos. > The autotune works because it is the RG2400V cable box that has been > programmed to change the channel, > and it does automatically changes the channel 2 minutes before an > AUTOTUNE SCHEDULE is due to start. > And since MythTV is always on channel 13, then it works! > I still cannot use "Program Guide" of course. > > --------------------------------------- > I have to MANUALLY SCHEDULE the mythtv default's "channel 13" at day X, > time Y, for Z minutes to match the AUTOTUNE schedule. > (either a one-time or re-occurring recording) > --------------------------------------- > > The nice part of this, is I believe the AUTOTUNE will work on each of > the 3 TV stations that VDSL uses. > In this case channels 3,8 and 13. In other words I believe I could built > 3 Mythtv box's and use AUTOTUNE > to record 3 programs at once. > > I am not sure if other VDSL/cable set-box's have AUTOTUNE or the > equivalent built into their systems, > but it would be a good bet that they do. > > Now, I just schedule MythTV to match the AUTOTUNE summary page. > AUTOTUNE can do a one time or based on a schedule. (Just make sure you > AUTOTUNE only only programs in the future. > If you do it for the current time slot, autotune is greyed out. > > I will still get an IR-blaster for the RG-2400V, but only when I find > one that will work. > I was told today at the KnoppMyth event that the "us-cable" setting > works for Rogers cable. Must be nice :) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 09:17:26 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 09:17:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: John Macdonald writes: > But, if code covered by GPL can be claimed to carry out a > process that is covered by a patent, copying the code is not > an issue, and permission from the author is irrelevant (unless > the author also is enforcing the patent). The GPL can be used > to force the owner of the patent to stop copying the GPL code, > but if the patent owner doesn't care about distributing GPL > code that threat is especially hollow. This paragraph is slightly confusing ;-) Could you please rephrase it a little ? > Microsoft has been getting over a thousand patents per year, > (thats the ones they apply for and get themselves, they also buy > lots of them). It is absolutely certain that Linux contains > code that accomplishes tasks that are covered by patents that > MS owns. In most cases, the patent is absurd - but it takes > a lot of work and money to challenge each one. There can be No, it takes 5 minutes. It is the time required to answer the question 'was this patent awarded by the uspto in the last 15 years in the software/algorythms domain ?'. If the answer to that is yes, and the question is asked outside the 20-mile zone of the US and its territories then the case is settled. And the Dutch judge's decision on Lindows resembling Windows (the words) needs a lot of explaining, especially since the word Windows is almost surely impossible to trademark in the EU. Lindows is a word that can be construed as a joining of 'Linux' and 'Windows' by anyone familiar with the 'art', as the gui widgets with which the users interact in Lindows are in fact called windows everywhere (including in source code). > expensive court orders that do things like prevent sales - > even if you eventually win the challenge, not being able to > operate your business for the duration can be devastating. > And, maybe, a few of those patents will fail to be challenged > successfully. That leads to trying to code around a concept, > which is harder than just rewriting the code independently. SINCE SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE NOT RECOGNIZED OUTSIDE THE US AND NEVER WILL BE WITH G*DS GRACE NOBODY NEEDS TO CODE AROUND A CONCEPT. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS CHARGE MORE FOR THE US VERSION WHICH LINKS AGAINST THE LIBRARY WITH PATENTED CODE, DISTRIBUTED AS THE 'US VERSION' EXACTLY LIKE THE US INSISTS THAT CERTAIN TYPES OF CODE BE DISTRIBUTED AS CRIPPLEWARE 'NON US VERSIONS'. THIS IS A CVS/RCS/VERSION CONTROL ISSUE AFTER ALL. > Or it leads to having a U.S. fork and a rest-of-the-world fork. > That would be painful and hurt Linux badly. Most software that is worth some money already has that fork built in. US edition. NON-US edition, everything is there. Crypto code, patented algorythms and other types of code forking nightmares have plagued Linux and BSD distributions ORIGINATING in the US since their inception. BSD was on the COCOM no-supply of the west list before the fall of the iron curtain, just as an example. The US is the nexus of these code splits. No other country attempted to control glorified hashes and caesar codes as 'weapons' or tried to put engineers who were suspected of discussing it in jail. Additionally the US the the home of the DMCA, which means that USERS ARE FORBIDDEN TO DISASSEMBLE THE CODE SUPPLIED TO THEM, INCLUDING FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINATION OF THE ALGORYTHM BEING USED, INCLUDING IF IT IS SUSPECTED THAT THE ALGORYTHM IS A PATENTED ONE. > MS would have to be careful about how they carry out such an > attack. The European anti-trust actions seem to have some > teeth to them; and maybe someday the U.S. anti-trust process > will kick in again and find a government willing to back it > up instead of merely a slap on the wrist. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 13:36:41 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 08:36:41 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to > step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) step 1) back up all data step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:36:52 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:36:52 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <454E0514.6070602@golden.net> David J Patrick wrote: > On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to >> step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? > > (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) > step 1) back up all data > step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions > step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data > step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. > > djp > Good suggestions ;-) I was thinking about buying Suse, but hell will have to freeze over first. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:01:07 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:01:07 -0500 Subject: The "Net Neutrality War" comes to Canada. In-Reply-To: <454D1DD6.6020204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102014055.GB20090@waltdnes.org> <3455.66.11.182.5.1162446616.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20061102204129.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <454D1DD6.6020204@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 11/4/06, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:50:16AM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: > >> I just wrote my MP and told him I support net neutrality. > > > > Too bad net neutrality kills a bunch of neat applications for the > > internet, like streaming video, VoIP, and many others. ToS is part of > > the internet, although not often used that much. True net neutrality > > means ToS can never be used for anything. > > Don't confuse net neutrality with quality of service. For example an > ISP might charge more for better voice over IP performance. Provided > that charge applied equally to all VoIP suppliers, that might be > acceptable. However, if an ISP favours their VoIP over a competitor's > then there's a problem. > The cable companies already do that by providing a separate frequency band for their own VoIP networks. Sure they offer an QoS filtering option for other providers but that can't compare to it own service which doesn't share bandwidth with the internet feed. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:38:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:38:17 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <454E0514.6070602-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <454E0514.6070602@golden.net> Message-ID: <454E0569.405@utoronto.ca> John Myshrall wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to >>> step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? >> >> (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) >> step 1) back up all data >> step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions >> step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data >> step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. >> >> djp >> > Good suggestions ;-) > > I was thinking about buying Suse, but hell will have to freeze over first. I microwaved 3 different SuSE DVD's the other day. Not a very flashy product to my dismay. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:43:25 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:43:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Some KnoppMyth follow-ups Message-ID: <20061105154325.57825.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just a few references, starting with the KnoppMyth website: www.mysettopbox.tv For those interested in TV station icons that can be displayed on the TV listings, here is a place to start: www.lyngsat-logo.com/tvcountry/ca.html As far as I know the above has all the logos for all Canadian TV stations, though some are unlikely to have much interest here in Toronto (such as say the logo for CHLT in Sherbrook, Quebec :-) ). For infrared stuff KnoppMyth depends on LIRC, and you can find info. on IR Blasters here: www.lirc.org/transmitters.html MythGAME (included with KnoppMyth) is based on MAME and here is where you can find the ROM files for the games that can (with the copyright holder's permission) be copied for non-commercial purposes: www.mame.net/downmisc.html My take last year on MythTV: www.linuxjournal.com/article/8658 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:49:31 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:49:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? Message-ID: <50026.207.188.67.51.1162741771.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > David J Patrick wrote: >> On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to >>> step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? >> >> (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) >> step 1) back up all data >> step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions >> step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data >> step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. >> >> djp >> > Good suggestions ;-) > > I was thinking about buying Suse, but hell will have to freeze over first. > > John > -- Yeah, I'm seriously considering a move to another distro. Reminds me of the cartoon where a guy in a bar is saying to the woman next to him "Well, just in case hell *does* freeze over, can I get your phone number?" Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 15:58:28 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:58:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <50045.207.188.67.51.1162742308.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Hugh wrote: > 1) as far as I can tell, there isn't much reason to update from > 1.5.0.7 to 2.0. There are few improvements. Some things that were > add-ons are now standard. Thanks for the detailed directions, Hugh. The rationale is this: ebay's new web design doesn't work with the Firefox 1.5. So I wrote to ebay help desk and got this prompt reply: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you prefer using the new form, I would suggest doing so with Internet Explorer rather than FireFox. You'll be able to download the latest version of Internet Explorer with the link below: www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/default.mspx Thank you for being part of the eBay community, and have a great day. Regards, Samson L. eBay Customer Support --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It turns out that (a) ebay supposedly supports Firefox and (b) the upgraded Firefox works properly with their new web pages. Also, since Firefox holds a significant percentage of browser usage, it's dumb for them to exclude Firefox. Now, you can still use the old version of the ebay pages with the older Firefox but ebay may remove that at some point. And don't ya love it when someone gives you the finger and then tells you to have a great day? Having cooled off a bit, I will be replying to Sampson L. today. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:00:16 2006 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 11:00:16 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <50026.207.188.67.51.1162741771.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50026.207.188.67.51.1162741771.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <6a56b34696197c37e14d85485e2e4313@millsgarthson.ca> On Nov 5, 2006, at 10:49 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Reminds me of the cartoon where a guy in a bar is saying to the woman > next > to him "Well, just in case hell *does* freeze over, can I get your > phone > number?" To continue in a similar vein, I heard someone sing the following a couple of weeks ago: . ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:14:10 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 11:14:10 -0500 Subject: NEW DVD burner and still only 5.9X !! anyone getting better Message-ID: <1162743254.31487.61.camel@stan64.site> I had a older plextor model that was 8X and I have gotten almost 8x burning of DVD at times but usually about 6x just got a brand new plextor dual layer, etc,etc, and its the same, on a Maxell 16X i get 5.9X i made sure the iso was on my sata controller drive and the DVD burner is on my PATA/IDE. My vmware is off (as that really screws up the burner, i.e. windows wants to get its fingers in on the process). anyone getting DVD that burn at 10X or higher? if so what burner (make model) and what media (make and model)? also i checked and everything is DMA on. this new plextor is supposed to have some smart technology that analysis the DVD (if it isnt in its internal table) and arrive at a best burning strategy. I have tried with philips, maxell pro and ridata, all come in at 5.9x (or close to it). I am wondering if this smart technology only works with the windows drivers and for LINUX i am SOL for anything better then 5.9X also anyone every tried burning a dual layer 8.5GB DVD+R DL on linux? oh by the way i am using K3B for burning, it uses growisofs, not sure if there is another base for DVD burning for Linux, i used to use cdrecord, and I think it does DVD's now, but i found grow was better, at least years ago. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:12:49 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:12:49 -0400 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454D027D.6080301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> On Saturday 04 November 2006 16:13, James Knott wrote: > > Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? > -- The Nokia website states it is not sold in Canda. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:42:26 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:42:26 -0400 Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <20061105003554.25709.qmail-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061105003554.25709.qmail@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200611051142.26326.mervc@eol.ca> On Saturday 04 November 2006 19:35, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern today with > the KnoppMyth install event. > I wish I had arrived earlier, since it seemed rather chaotic and hard to find out who knew what. There seemed to be a small group around you with many questions. I think it showed there is quite an interest in the topic and the kinds of questions that people have. I was surprised to hear the number of people who want to do this for 25 cents instead of spending the kind of money they would for a commercial system. One chap mentioned he was having problems and wondered if it might be his 25 year old coax cables and 'F' connectors. I come from a TV broadcasting background and cheap don't work. Perhaps next time it could be a more formal setting, rather than a general install-fest, a one machine install eg. a how-to and then question and answer period where all could learn. Maybe a mention of the hardware being used. Perhaps at a NewTlug meeting, I think the IBM bldg swould be a good spot, and hopefully we could organize some transportation for those without cars. Just seeing some of the screens and things one can do with MythTV was quite a surprise. I am now more enthused about getting all the hardware together and seeing if I can figure this out. Finding your address was much harder than I had expected, that little corner of the city was new to me. I wouldn't be surprised if some people just gave up and didn't get there. At any rate, thanks for your efforts and I am sure a number of us learned something. Regards -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:46:52 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:46:52 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200611051146.52716.mervc@eol.ca> On Sunday 05 November 2006 08:36, David J Patrick wrote: > On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to > > step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? > > (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) > step 1) back up all data > step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions > step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data > step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. > > djp What the heck is USPTO?? Must be be held hostage to acronyms? I gave up on SuSE with its limited new software capabilities. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 16:59:10 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 11:59:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <200611051146.52716.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <200611051146.52716.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Merv Curley | What the heck is USPTO?? Must be be held hostage to acronyms? Google is your friend. Heck, with FireFox 2.0 (that I installed so that I could give sensible directions to Peter Hiscocks), the Google box even gives you strong hints before you tell it to start searching. First hit: United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 17:14:06 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:14:06 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <200611051112.50245.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> Merv Curley wrote: > On Saturday 04 November 2006 16:13, James Knott wrote: > >> Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? >> -- > The Nokia website states it is not sold in Canda. > Tigerdirect website says otherwise: http://tinyurl.com/sufbs Also, craisglist: http://toronto.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=nokia%20770 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 17:25:14 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:25:14 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to > > step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? > > (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) > step 1) back up all data > step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions > step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data > step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. The GPL and the Linux marketplace won't let MS use patents destructively. Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 19:11:50 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 14:11:50 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061105191150.GS8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 12:25:14PM -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > The GPL and the Linux marketplace won't let MS use patents > destructively. > > Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have > any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or > even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? A few years ago they discovered they had a patent on something to do with FAT, so they started demanding royalties from digital camera makers and such. I believe the patent was rather quickly found to be invalid and hence canceled. They tried though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 19:33:57 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 14:33:57 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. Actually, as I understand it, the patent abuses will bypass MSuSE and target any linux company/ coder who hopes to make $1.00 > The GPL and the Linux marketplace won't let MS use patents > destructively. The recent unholy alliance is already a destructive use of patents. Microsoft (and New allay Novell) have basically drawn the lines of battle and declared that anyone outside Microsoft warm indemnifying embrace is a potential subject of litigation. This is deliberately destructive. > > Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have > any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or > even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? or evidence of their willingness to abuse their monopoly ? to embrace and extinguish ? yes. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:04:44 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:04:44 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <20061105191150.GS8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <20061105191150.GS8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611051204n1b446e0bof169e893966d7303@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 12:25:14PM -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > > The GPL and the Linux marketplace won't let MS use patents > > destructively. > > > > Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have > > any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or > > even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? > > A few years ago they discovered they had a patent on something to do > with FAT, so they started demanding royalties from digital camera makers > and such. I believe the patent was rather quickly found to be invalid > and hence canceled. They tried though. I'm not so sure about that being frivilous. Unnecessary maybe, but they're using MS's filesystem... The actual filesystem... Complete with the quirks and cruft and limitations. Wasn't the patent upheld in January? This is actually a VERY good example of how MS can't impose patent control on Linux. If MS pursued Linux users for royalties to use the FAT filesystem, two things would happen. 1. Linux copyright holders would slowly consider whether or not to attack Linux distributors for copyright violations by distributing the patent encumbured FAT code. (good for Microsoft, bad for Linux) 1a. Linux users wouldn't be *allowed* to pay for the use of the patent without causing the distributor of their distro to be in violation of copyright laws. 2. IBM, Oracle, and every other Linux business in existence would launch an all out assault on every product MS ever produced. MS couldn't draw a line or click on a dropdown menu without facing a Cease and Desist letter. This is why I think MS has no power over GPL/LGPL'd code, even with the patents. What I would watch for in the case of SuSE is dead-end development. MS is interested in marketshare and profit, not software. Their enhancemnts to Linux will certainly reflect those interests and only those interests. MS wants money. I'm not surprised they're interested in Linux. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:18:02 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:18:02 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > Actually, as I understand it, the patent abuses will bypass MSuSE and > target any linux company/ coder who hopes to make $1.00 It cant' work that way. If MS *did* try that. Eg., with the FAT code, you could, for example do this: 1. strip the FAT code from Debian. 2. Take the FAT code from MSuSE 3. Put the FAT code from MSuSE into Debian MS can't put a redistribution clause on GPL'd code and they can't un-GPL it. If they rewrote the code as BSD license and demanded royalties, competitors with large patent portfolios could do the same in return. ... > embrace is a potential subject of litigation. This is deliberately > destructive. Naw, I think we just disagree on this. MS is after money. That's all they've ever been after. World domination and crushing competition is all collateral damage. > > Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have > > any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or > > even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? > or evidence of their willingness to abuse their monopoly ? > to embrace and extinguish ? > yes. MS has been pushing for patent reform: Patents and employing factory sweatshop workers are about the only places where MS has shown limits to its evil. I'm doubtful that MS really has small business in mind when talking of patents, but at least they claim to. Don't ever let it be said that I thought MS was not evil! Very evil. But I don't think they have motive or power to snuff out Linux. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:18:16 2006 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:18:16 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454E1BDE.6050504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20061105151456.04560ec0@mail.the-wire.com> Thanks to all of the following who responded to my recent query about "Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not)": Simon for the Nokia 770 mention. ( I had never heard of it prior to his message. The first quick pass through the specs list seems to indicate that it meets all of my "specs I'd like it to have" specs, so I will take a much closer look at it. The under $500 price is attractive also. ) "Ian Petersen" for finding the web site for the Nokia 770 OS Oliver Meyn for selling me his Sharp Zaurus SL-5500. Even if I buy the Nokia 770 I'll likely end up futzing with both of them. and special thanks to Jamon Camisso for 1) his URL to tigerdirect.ca's $482.99 web page sale of it (Good to know something like this *IS* available in Toronto!!) 2) his URL to it being for sale at craisglist in Toronto Now to Google my brains out looking for programming resources for the Zaurus SL-5500. (I had considered the Dell Axim v51x, but couldn't find any programming resources for it, so...) Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:51:01 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:51:01 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <454E0514.6070602-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <454E0514.6070602@golden.net> Message-ID: <454E4EB5.5000302@rogers.com> John Myshrall wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to >>> step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) Linux? >> >> (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) >> step 1) back up all data >> step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions >> step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data >> step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. >> >> djp >> > Good suggestions ;-) > > I was thinking about buying Suse, but hell will have to freeze over first. I thought it already did! ;-) http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2912974320.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:55:29 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:55:29 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <200611051112.50245.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <454E4FC1.8040007@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On Saturday 04 November 2006 16:13, James Knott wrote: > >> Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? >> -- > The Nokia website states it is not sold in Canda. > Hmmm... There's gotta be some way to blame that on Jack Layton. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 20:59:27 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:59:27 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454E1BDE.6050504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Merv Curley wrote: >> On Saturday 04 November 2006 16:13, James Knott wrote: >> >>> Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? >>> -- >> The Nokia website states it is not sold in Canda. >> > > Tigerdirect website says otherwise: > http://tinyurl.com/sufbs TigerDirect ships from the U.S. and handles warranty from there too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 21:33:19 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:33:19 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20061105151456.04560ec0-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <5.2.1.1.2.20061105151456.04560ec0@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611051333g735beb37qd9e7825b32a7906b@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, Stan Witkowski wrote: > Now to Google my brains out looking for programming resources for the > Zaurus SL-5500. I have some resources here: http://jrandomhacker.info/Sharp_Zaurus_SL-series/programming I'd recommend looking into cross-compiling resources, but you can also compile your software on the Zaurus itself.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 21:33:02 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:33:02 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > > On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > > > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > > Actually, as I understand it, the patent abuses will bypass MSuSE and > > target any linux company/ coder who hopes to make $1.00 > > It cant' work that way. If MS *did* try that. Eg., with the FAT > code, you could, for example do this: > > 1. strip the FAT code from Debian. > 2. Take the FAT code from MSuSE > 3. Put the FAT code from MSuSE into Debian The fun part here is that this time the implied threat is in regards to unspecified "IP", as represented by unspecified patents. The threat is real (MS holding a huge patent portfolio) and casts a shadow over the entire landscape. Whatever it is, Novells caving in to shell out royalties on their linux offerings gives at least the illusion that the rest of us will have to pay, too. > > MS can't put a redistribution clause on GPL'd code and they can't > un-GPL it. If they rewrote the code as BSD license and demanded > royalties, competitors with large patent portfolios could do the same > in return. > > ... > > embrace is a potential subject of litigation. This is deliberately > > destructive. > > Naw, I think we just disagree on this. MS is after money. That's all > they've ever been after. World domination and crushing competition is > all collateral damage. It seems to be their modus operandi. That combined with file format lock-in and obscene advertising budgets. That's how they got so crazy rich ! > > MS has been pushing for patent reform: > > > > Patents and employing factory sweatshop workers are about the only > places where MS has shown limits to its evil. ok.. maybe sweatshops.. unless you consider outsourcing to India and Russia sweatshops.. > > I'm doubtful that MS really has small business in mind when talking of > patents, but at least they claim to. Their desire to control of small business (errr.. offer everything a small business needs, including no lawsuits) is plainly stated in their PR. > > Don't ever let it be said that I thought MS was not evil! Very evil. > But I don't think they have motive or power to snuff out Linux. I think one is a likely as the other, to do any snuffing. That is; not very. BUT If you don't see this salvo as a major FUD bomb, you must be shell-shocked. It's intended to, and may well, slow linux adoption by introducing a thinly veiled, broadly aimed threat. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:18:39 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:18:39 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <50045.207.188.67.51.1162742308.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50045.207.188.67.51.1162742308.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990611051418p5e7569e6sb8ccdbcca372e058@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The rationale is this: ebay's new web design doesn't work with the Firefox > 1.5. That's crazy talk. It works fine for me.. Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060917 Firefox/1.5.0.7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:25:11 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:25:11 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611051425s4e5e1750g6b2a6483e78532a2@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > Naw, I think we just disagree on this. MS is after money. That's all > they've ever been after. World domination and crushing competition is > all collateral damage. Not true. People are political. Companies are political. There are very good national security reasons why China went Linux, and it's not because of buggy Microsoft code, it's because of foreign interests; espionage, sabotage, etc. A well controlled monopoly OS also allows other great things, like exploitable backdoors on home soil. Gotta get dem terror'ists, even if you hav'ta make 'em first. Never blame money as the only drive, especially when there's already lots of money flying around. Other people, companies and bodies in positions of power (governments, "etc") have a stake in things as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:33:35 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 17:33:35 -0500 Subject: ot: diagnosing hardware problem on a tablet In-Reply-To: <20061104114447.1drs8why18g0g4c0-2RFepEojUI0fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061104114447.1drs8why18g0g4c0@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org wrote: > anyway, i'm wondering whether anyone knows how to diagnose this kind of > problem when I can't get any kind of OS to boot. Here's some things that worked on a Sony VAIO laptop. - hold the power switch down for > 10 sec., even though the machine seems to be dead - leave it plugged in, to allow the battery to charge (about an hour) then try to power it on - remove the battery completely from the unit, attach the A/C adapter, then power on -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:38:44 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 17:38:44 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611051425s4e5e1750g6b2a6483e78532a2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990611051425s4e5e1750g6b2a6483e78532a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454E67F4.3050808@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/5/06, Mike Kallies wrote: >> Naw, I think we just disagree on this. MS is after money. That's all >> they've ever been after. World domination and crushing competition is >> all collateral damage. > > Not true. People are political. Companies are political. There are > very good national security reasons why China went Linux, and it's not > because of buggy Microsoft code, it's because of foreign interests; > espionage, sabotage, etc. And money. > A well controlled monopoly OS also allows other great things, like > exploitable backdoors on home soil. Gotta get dem terror'ists, even > if you hav'ta make 'em first. 1) Spend money to make money. Buy expensive spy equipment, pay off database companies to strike voters from the registry. 2) Reinvest surpluses and any profits back? into the military industrial complex. 3) Repeat 1 and 2 indefinitely. > Never blame money as the only drive, especially when there's already > lots of money flying around. Other people, companies and bodies in > positions of power (governments, "etc") have a stake in things as > well. That stake or power reflects, in large part, the amount of money said company or political group controls. Power is a derivative of money, not the other way around IMO. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:43:20 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:43:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611051418p5e7569e6sb8ccdbcca372e058-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50045.207.188.67.51.1162742308.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990611051418p5e7569e6sb8ccdbcca372e058@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50521.207.188.67.51.1162766600.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On 11/5/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> The rationale is this: ebay's new web design doesn't work with the >> Firefox >> 1.5. > > That's crazy talk. It works fine for me.. > > Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060917 > Firefox/1.5.0.7 > -- I'm on the second page for 'selling' using the new ebay web page design. I can't get a 'browse' button for pictures. Popups are enabled, java and javascript are enabled, the cache has been cleared. This is Firefox 1.0.8 under Linux. I get the same result with 1.5.0.7 on another Linux system. Firefox 2.0 on a Windows system works fine. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 5 22:47:11 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:47:11 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611051447y2562adf1n2aa0157e920641f1@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > > On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > > > On 05/11/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > > > > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > > > Actually, as I understand it, the patent abuses will bypass MSuSE and > > > target any linux company/ coder who hopes to make $1.00 > > > > It cant' work that way. If MS *did* try that. Eg., with the FAT > > code, you could, for example do this: > > > > 1. strip the FAT code from Debian. > > 2. Take the FAT code from MSuSE > > 3. Put the FAT code from MSuSE into Debian > The fun part here is that this time the implied threat is in regards > to unspecified "IP", as represented by unspecified patents. The threat > is real (MS holding a huge patent portfolio) and casts a shadow over > the entire landscape. Whatever it is, Novells caving in to shell out > royalties on their linux offerings gives at least the illusion that > the rest of us will have to pay, too. If you're talking about perceptions, I suppose anything is possible. Although Redhat's Oracle problems have shown that Linux companies will develop problems with vague "you must pay me for your free software" business models. Microsoft extracting royalties for an unrelated IP partnership with Novell *could* be wrongly construed to mean that Linux IP is subject to royalty payments... If it *is* an attempt to make Linux based business appear risky I don't think it will be effective. .... but if you asked me 5 years ago if this RHEL/RHAS crud business model would have worked, I'd have laughed at the idea. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 01:57:50 2006 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:57:50 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <50521.207.188.67.51.1162766600.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50045.207.188.67.51.1162742308.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990611051418p5e7569e6sb8ccdbcca372e058@mail.gmail.com> <50521.207.188.67.51.1162766600.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1bb290611051757jfda49f3jabfea4253d6bcb2a@mail.gmail.com> This forum has step-by-step info on installing firefox 2.0 rpms (and where they are): http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=26128&st=0&p=139330&#entry139330 I haven't done this myself yet. It's on my TODO list. Good luck, Simone On 11/5/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > On 11/5/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> The rationale is this: ebay's new web design doesn't work with the > >> Firefox > >> 1.5. > > > > That's crazy talk. It works fine for me.. > > > > Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060917 > > Firefox/1.5.0.7 > > -- > > I'm on the second page for 'selling' using the new ebay web page design. I > can't get a 'browse' button for pictures. Popups are enabled, java and > javascript are enabled, the cache has been cleared. > > This is Firefox 1.0.8 under Linux. I get the same result with 1.5.0.7 on > another Linux system. > > Firefox 2.0 on a Windows system works fine. > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 02:05:59 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:05:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <200611051142.26326.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200611051142.26326.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20061106020559.28165.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Merv Curley wrote: > On Saturday 04 November 2006 19:35, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern today > with > > the KnoppMyth install event. > > > I wish I had arrived earlier, since it seemed rather > chaotic and hard to find > out who knew what. There seemed to be a small group > around you with many > questions. I think it showed there is quite an > interest in the topic and the > kinds of questions that people have. Yes, I had expected a smaller crowd, so I found myself winging things a bit... > I was surprised to hear the number of people who > want to do this for 25 > cents instead of spending the kind of money they > would for a commercial > system. One chap mentioned he was having problems > and wondered if it might be > his 25 year old coax cables and 'F' connectors. I > come from a TV > broadcasting background and cheap don't work. Well, I can see the who do it cheap thing, even though I know that sucks. In my case with my income it is a case of do it cheap or don't do it at all... > Perhaps next time it could be a more formal setting, > rather than a general > install-fest, a one machine install eg. a how-to > and then question and > answer period where all could learn. Maybe a > mention of the hardware being > used. Perhaps at a NewTlug meeting, I think the IBM > bldg swould be a good > spot, and hopefully we could organize some > transportation for those without > cars. Paul Mora did a very nice intro. talk on MythTV at NewTLUG roughly a year ago up at IBM (for those who don't know, Paul Mora is an IBM staff member and it is thanks to him that NewTLUG gets some meeting space roughly every 2 months up at IBM). > Just seeing some of the screens and things one can > do with MythTV was quite a > surprise. I am now more enthused about getting all > the hardware together and > seeing if I can figure this out. Yes, it is a neat program, can be a royal pain getting installed under some distros. and semi-stiff hardware demands, but over all great stuff... > Finding your address was much harder than I had > expected, that little corner > of the city was new to me. I wouldn't be surprised > if some people just gave > up and didn't get there. Unfortunate, but possible. > At any rate, thanks for your efforts and I am sure a > number of us learned > something. Your welcome. Some of what I learned may well end up in 2 articles I am working on ... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 03:07:16 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:07:16 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454E50AF.2080108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <454EA6E4.1080108@telly.org> Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 Sold unlocked in the US because it's not currently being offered by any GSM carrier. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 03:31:10 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:31:10 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454EA6E4.1080108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <454EA6E4.1080108@telly.org> Message-ID: <454EAC7E.2020709@telly.org> > Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More > smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... > > http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 > Oops. That's already been supplanted by the A1200 (also known as the "Ming"). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 03:21:43 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 22:21:43 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> > It cant' work that way. If MS *did* try that. Eg., with the FAT > code, you could, for example do this: > > 1. strip the FAT code from Debian. > 2. Take the FAT code from MSuSE > 3. Put the FAT code from MSuSE into Debian > > MS can't put a redistribution clause on GPL'd code and they can't > un-GPL it. If they rewrote the code as BSD license and demanded > royalties, competitors with large patent portfolios could do the same > in return. I am not a lawyer, and all that, but my understanding is that it doesn't work that way. Patents and copyrights are two different beasts, and GPL2 doesn't discuss patents, IIRC. Your step 3, above, is perfectly legal from a copyright perspective, but using the patented algorithm without the permission of the patent-holder (MS) is still illegal, regardless of the expression of the patented "idea" and who controlls the expression Perhaps, because of the "no other restrictions" clause in the GPL, it's illegal to distribute FAT-related, GPL code in any form, whether by MSuSe or otherwise, but you can't "work around" a patented idea the same way that you can "work around" copyright problems with a clean-room implementation. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 04:03:38 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 23:03:38 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454D027D.6080301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: A list of supported apps is at http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 Porting other apps is pretty straightforward, the biggest issues with GUI apps are dependencies and compressing the GUI so that it is still usable on a small screen. Gtk apps are particularly easy to port, it seems. I tried to sell someone at Canada Computer on the idea of selling them, but it didn't seem to work, otherwise they'd be stocking them by now. Tigerdirect sells them, but the price ventures beyond ridiculous, into the territory of drug induced hallucinations. Therefore, I'm not actually sure if they sell it, maybe I'm just out of my mind ($483 to be exact, when the thing has an MSRP of 350USD). Simon On 11/4/06, James Knott wrote: > > Does anyone in the GTA carry it? I assume it supports other Linux apps? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 04:08:17 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 23:08:17 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: Whoops, I didn't read the other emails, I see tigerdirect is mentioned. Either way, it would be cheaper to order from somewhere else in the US. I got mine off of eBay and it came to $440 after shipping, and then tax, which was a shot in the gut, but still cheaper. The problem with how I got it is that I have no warranty AFAIK.. it was altogether an ill-advised move that I don't suggest anyone imitates - if you're gonna use eBay, at least get it from an auction in Canada. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 04:16:15 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 23:16:15 -0500 Subject: ot: diagnosing hardware problem on a tablet In-Reply-To: <20061104114447.1drs8why18g0g4c0-2RFepEojUI0fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061104114447.1drs8why18g0g4c0@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Do you mean that you couldn't get it to boot off USB, or that you booted it off USB but it is still unstable? If it's that you couldn't boot off USB, you have two options, I think. If you have access to the hard disk, you can get an external enclosure, remove the disk, and install an OS on it from another machine over USB. Another solution would be to try to boot the tablet over the network, but I'm unfamiliar with this, as I haven't been in the same situation as you. If the disk is bad, then you may want to replace it, having installed Linux on the replacement beforehand. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 04:16:58 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 23:16:58 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 11/5/06, Simon wrote: > I tried to sell someone at Canada Computer on the idea of selling > them, but it didn't seem to work, otherwise they'd be stocking them by > now. Tigerdirect sells them, but the price ventures beyond > ridiculous, into the territory of drug induced hallucinations. > Therefore, I'm not actually sure if they sell it, maybe I'm just out > of my mind ($483 to be exact, when the thing has an MSRP of 350USD). If they stocked them when the USD was higher, and had any stocking or customs costs, it's entirely possible that this price is NOT spectacularly ridiculous. Yes, you can get them for $350 at CompUSA. For that to mark up to a $CDN price of $483 seems to me to only be mildly high. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 06:14:53 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:14:53 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20061106061453.GA3413@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 09:17:26AM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > John Macdonald writes: > > > But, if code covered by GPL can be claimed to carry out a > > process that is covered by a patent, copying the code is not > > an issue, and permission from the author is irrelevant (unless > > the author also is enforcing the patent). The GPL can be used > > to force the owner of the patent to stop copying the GPL code, > > but if the patent owner doesn't care about distributing GPL > > code that threat is especially hollow. > > This paragraph is slightly confusing ;-) Could you please rephrase it a little ? If a company sends you a legal notice that you are infringing on their patent, the notice will describe the conceptual process and results you are carrying out and achieving. It will not matter whether you were allowed to copy the code - it is duplicating the patented process without a license that is the violation. So, whether your code is covered by GPL, derived from the original Bell Labs release code, or whatever does not affect that you are breaching the patent. (It might help you in your course of proving that the patent is invalid; but in the mean time you may received an injunction that forces you to stop selling your product for a while.) > > expensive court orders that do things like prevent sales - > > even if you eventually win the challenge, not being able to > > operate your business for the duration can be devastating. > > And, maybe, a few of those patents will fail to be challenged > > successfully. That leads to trying to code around a concept, > > which is harder than just rewriting the code independently. > > SINCE SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE NOT RECOGNIZED OUTSIDE THE US AND NEVER WILL BE WITH > G*DS GRACE NOBODY NEEDS TO CODE AROUND A CONCEPT. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS CHARGE > MORE FOR THE US VERSION WHICH LINKS AGAINST THE LIBRARY WITH PATENTED CODE, > DISTRIBUTED AS THE 'US VERSION' EXACTLY LIKE THE US INSISTS THAT CERTAIN TYPES > OF CODE BE DISTRIBUTED AS CRIPPLEWARE 'NON US VERSIONS'. THIS IS A > CVS/RCS/VERSION CONTROL ISSUE AFTER ALL. See below. The U.S. is important. > > Or it leads to having a U.S. fork and a rest-of-the-world fork. > > That would be painful and hurt Linux badly. > > Most software that is worth some money already has that fork built in. US > edition. NON-US edition, everything is there. Crypto code, patented algorythms > and other types of code forking nightmares have plagued Linux and BSD > distributions ORIGINATING in the US since their inception. BSD was on the COCOM > no-supply of the west list before the fall of the iron curtain, just as an > example. The US is the nexus of these code splits. No other country attempted to > control glorified hashes and caesar codes as 'weapons' or tried to put engineers > who were suspected of discussing it in jail. Additionally the US the the home of > the DMCA, which means that USERS ARE FORBIDDEN TO DISASSEMBLE THE CODE SUPPLIED > TO THEM, INCLUDING FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINATION OF THE ALGORYTHM BEING USED, > INCLUDING IF IT IS SUSPECTED THAT THE ALGORYTHM IS A PATENTED ONE. Wrong. The issue over crypto code was that U.S. law made illegaly to ship it out of the country without going through a prohibitably expensive per-customer approval process. There was no problem with importing crypto code into the U.S., though, so no code fork was required. It just meant that only non-U.S. developers would work on the code, that the repositories had to be outside the U.S., that U.S. repositories had to limit foreign dowloading (impossible, but they were allowed to just make an attempt). This was just a small piece of the system. A U.S. based distribution like Red Hat simply didn't include crypto, because it was too hard for them to get around the export barrier. (Hugh will likely chime in here on details that I've got slightly wrong; or maybe Henry - they were both involved heavily in the crypto work for a while. Henry more than Hugh, but I haven't seen Henry posting here recently.) A patent would mean there were chunks of functionality that could not be deliver to U.S. users of any distribution. If the component involved was sufficiently critical, people would spend time working around the patent; but if the work-around was too costly (either making things too slow, or reducing functionality significantly), there would be a fork for the rest of the world's users who would not want to pay the cost for a legal issue that didn't affect them. That leaves lots of developers spending time developing two versions of the code - taking more than twice as much time to do that portion of the development. This would leave MS laughing in the background the way they did back in the days when there were lots of Unix vendors who did a better job of fighting each other than in fighting MS (or the way we've been able to laugh about MS being forced to make special distributions for regions that flex their anti-trust laws sufficiently). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 06:05:39 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 01:05:39 -0500 Subject: Chris Bliss - juggler extraordinaire In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611040605q2054d103h3d77b357281c0b17-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <454B88FC.7040702@qef.com> <1e55af990611040605q2054d103h3d77b357281c0b17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454ED0B3.8060104@qef.com> Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/3/06, David Tilbrook wrote: > >> This I have to share -- it's amazing: >> >> http://coolsite.com/chris_bliss.html > > > ... whoa There's a follow up - a parody by Jason Garfield who is scathing about the Chris Bliss version. A minor difference is that Garfield uses five (5) balls whereas Bliss uses three only. See: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6283096511750618839 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 06:42:11 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:42:11 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter Message-ID: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have some content filtering service. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 12:00:10 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 07:00:10 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <454F23CA.4050708@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > A list of supported apps is at > http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 > > Porting other apps is pretty straightforward, the biggest issues with > GUI apps are dependencies and compressing the GUI so that it is still > usable on a small screen. Gtk apps are particularly easy to port, it > seems. > > I tried to sell someone at Canada Computer on the idea of selling > them, but it didn't seem to work, otherwise they'd be stocking them by > now. Tigerdirect sells them, but the price ventures beyond > ridiculous, into the territory of drug induced hallucinations. > Therefore, I'm not actually sure if they sell it, maybe I'm just out > of my mind ($483 to be exact, when the thing has an MSRP of 350USD). At the moment, $350 U.S. is about $400 CDN, so that is a bit high. Perhaps the price would be lower, if there were other Canadian vendors. I wonder where Seneca got hers? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 12:35:23 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 07:35:23 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454F23CA.4050708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <454F23CA.4050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: slightly off thread, but as of this past Friday, there's a software update that, among other things, supports 2GB RS-MMC cards without needing a patched kernel upload, according to the release notes. I got my 2GB card from PC-Metro, downtown, across from the College St Canada Computer, for 60 bucks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 12:40:15 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 07:40:15 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <454F23CA.4050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <454F2D2F.4010507@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > slightly off thread, but as of this past Friday, there's a software > update that, among other things, supports 2GB RS-MMC cards without > needing a patched kernel upload, according to the release notes. I > got my 2GB card from PC-Metro, downtown, across from the College St > Canada Computer, for 60 bucks. I gather from your previous message that apps are not a problem in that the standard Linux apps can be recomiled. Have you recompiled OpenOffice yet? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:25:21 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:25:21 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > some content filtering service. I am not certain that any kind of answer really exists for that, regardless of license. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:25:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:25:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454F23CA.4050708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <454F23CA.4050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061106132541.50649.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Simon wrote: > > A list of supported apps is at > > http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 > > > > Porting other apps is pretty straightforward, the > biggest issues with > > GUI apps are dependencies and compressing the GUI > so that it is still > > usable on a small screen. Gtk apps are > particularly easy to port, it > > seems. > > > > I tried to sell someone at Canada Computer on the > idea of selling > > them, but it didn't seem to work, otherwise they'd > be stocking them by > > now. Tigerdirect sells them, but the price > ventures beyond > > ridiculous, into the territory of drug induced > hallucinations. > > Therefore, I'm not actually sure if they sell it, > maybe I'm just out > > of my mind ($483 to be exact, when the thing has > an MSRP of 350USD). > > At the moment, $350 U.S. is about $400 CDN, so that > is a bit high. > Perhaps the price would be lower, if there were > other Canadian vendors. > I wonder where Seneca got hers? I gather she got it as a present from her father (who lives in the U.S.). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:26:36 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:26:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Xen on an Intel Mac-Mini Message-ID: <454F380C.5050604@utoronto.ca> I thought maybe this would be an interesting link to book for future reference. http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/mini-xen/index.html Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:34:57 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:34:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061106133457.15451.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network > Porn Filter solution? > > > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's > pre-school and I need to have > > some content filtering service. > > I am not certain that any kind of answer really > exists for that, > regardless of license. I was at a presentation last year where a proprietary software vendor (other than MS) was talking about their porn filter software. Yes, it does exist, but even by their own admission isn't perfect (innocent enough baby pictures tend to flagged as porn). Off the top of my head I don't know of any GPL'ed anti-Porn software, but if there is such I would be interested in hearing about it (if on as fodder for a future magazine article :-) ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:35:43 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:35:43 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 6-Nov-06, at 8:25 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? >> >> I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need >> to have >> some content filtering service. > > I am not certain that any kind of answer really exists for that, > regardless of license. Try dansguardian > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 12:42:34 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 07:42:34 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454F2DBA.9090008@golden.net> Mike Kallies wrote: > On 11/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: >> On 04/11/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> > Does anyone in the TLUG Great Collective Mind have a pointer to >> > step-by-step instructions for upgrading to Firefox 2.0 on (Suse) >> Linux? >> >> (in light of recent IP hostage taking developments) >> step 1) back up all data >> step 2) remove MSuSE, reformat partitions >> step 3) install any non USPTO entangled operating system, relocate data >> step 4) install Firefox 2.0 as per distro instructions. > > Any patent abuses would extend beyond SuSE and into all other distros. > The GPL and the Linux marketplace won't let MS use patents > destructively. > > Besides, not to imply that Microsoft is not evil, but does anyone have > any examples of Microsoft ever abusing their patent portfolio? Or > even Microsoft using lawsuits aggressively? > > > -Mike > -- Yeah they had a patent on the ipod, they filled it before Apple did. The problem is when they filed it they already knew that the ipod existed therefore there patent is invalid because they failed to disclose prior art. What do you think they had in mind with this ? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:40:49 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:40:49 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb@mail.gmail.com> On 11/5/06, Ian Petersen wrote: ... > I am not a lawyer, and all that, but my understanding is that it > doesn't work that way. Patents and copyrights are two different > beasts, and GPL2 doesn't discuss patents, IIRC. Your step 3, above, > is perfectly legal from a copyright perspective, but using the > patented algorithm without the permission of the patent-holder (MS) is > still illegal, regardless of the expression of the patented "idea" and > who controlls the expression The GPL2 does briefly mention patents, but it mentions them in a way which doesn't make a lot of sense (section 7) "... For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program." "redistribution" Whether or not it is illegal to "use" a device which is patented without the permission of the patent holder, I have no idea. Patent law is insane. So maybe yes, I can see how MS could charge a fee to "use" a GPL'd program which steps on a patent, and still not fall into the trap of section 7 of the GPL. The same applies to all commercial software though and there should still be a standoff. Else, why hasn't a company like MS already demanded royalties for every technology which Linux tramples on? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:42:39 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:42:39 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002a01c701a9$6d98a6d0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> There is an add-in for Squid called squidguard. Has anyone used it? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave > Cramer > Sent: November 6, 2006 8:36 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: GPL Porn Filter > > > On 6-Nov-06, at 8:25 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > >> > >> I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need > >> to have > >> some content filtering service. > > > > I am not certain that any kind of answer really exists for that, > > regardless of license. > > Try dansguardian > > -- > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:59:56 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:59:56 -0500 Subject: OT: Xen on an Intel Mac-Mini In-Reply-To: <454F380C.5050604-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <454F380C.5050604@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <454F3FDC.7000606@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I thought maybe this would be an interesting link to book for future > reference. > > http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/mini-xen/index.html > > Ivan. Though you may want to wait till Apple starts shipping Mac-Minis with Intel Core 2 Duo (Core Duo chips are not 64 bit), in which case the link may not apply. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:59:42 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:59:42 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <002a01c701a9$6d98a6d0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002a01c701a9$6d98a6d0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20061106135942.GA19292@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 08:42:39AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >There is an add-in for Squid called squidguard. Has anyone used it? I have used it. At the time it was simply a black list. Porn filters don't work. They give the user a false sense of security. Some times they even block legitimate content (e.g. some filters tag breast cancer as porn). -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 13:42:53 2006 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:42:53 -0500 Subject: OTLooking for a Linux sys admin job... In-Reply-To: References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <454F3BDD.60307@videotron.ca> Hi, I am posting this as I did not find job enquiries specifically prohibited in the rules. I am currently working for a FTSE 250 company listed on the London Stock Exchange. Current job involves maintaining more than 1000 HP servers running RHEL 3 located in datacenters in North America and Europe. Expertise includes : Linux server setup and remote administration. Web/Mail/DNS/Proxy server setup Monitoring and Alerting using Nagios IPtables firewall rules VMWare setup RT based Ticketing Systems setup Shell scripting Redhat Satellite and Proxy server administration CVS/SVN setup Ironport Mailing systems Co-ordinating with vendors for support Co-ordinating with development teams on various issues Comfortable working to ISO17799/BS7799 standards. Familiar and worked with : Cisco 525/535 and Cisco LDIR. SAN Veritas Software Development Life Cycle RSA based security/authentication systems Building a new datacenter from scratch. Certifications : RHCE Please contact me for a detailed resume. Regards, Shinoj. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 14:58:02 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 09:58:02 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1162825082.24592.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-06-11 at 01:42 -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > I am setting up a network at my daughter?s pre-school and I need to > have some content filtering service. Ummm, . . . "No GUI"? ;-) Or as an alternative, setup a firewall (like IPCop) with a filter (like Dan's Guardian). DG will let you select the type of content that should not be allowed: - gambling - hate speech - porn - proxies - violence - auctions - news - social networking - chat (etc., etc., etc.) And how you want to respond to the restricted items. - block them - block them and post a notice ("that was prohibited by the sysadmin, talk to Ansar..." or other custom messages.) - log violations, but allow the content (great for initial testing of your config!) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 14:46:48 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 09:46:48 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <20061106020559.28165.qmail-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061106020559.28165.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <454F4AD8.2020706@golden.net> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Merv Curley wrote: > >> On Saturday 04 November 2006 19:35, Colin McGregor >> wrote: >> >>> Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern today >>> >> with >> >>> the KnoppMyth install event. >>> >>> For those interested there are FX 5200 Cards available for $ 29.99 coupon required. They are refurbs though. http://www.factorydirect.ca/email_html/061103_FS.htm John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 15:56:17 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:56:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > I don't understand the FSF connection. This seems to be another > low-key remaster of an existing distribution. (Ubuntu) The FSF is sponsoring: http://www.fsf.org/news/gnewsense I can't think of any previous occassion in which the FSF has sponsored a distro. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:11:04 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:11:04 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611060811h2a8173f1oddb3fc2d929760ef@mail.gmail.com> On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > some content filtering service. Just as a semi-related aside, you may want to also look into ad blocking. Through 'walking the web', it's possible that an ad could land her on a porn-related site, so blocking ads might be a good idea. I use firefox and adblock, and I have it update its filters using the 'Adblock Filterset.G Updater' http://adblock.mozdev.org http://forum.pierceive.com/viewtopic.php?t=37 (I'm not sure if this link is any good anymore.. it didn't work for me when I tried it just now.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:13:49 2006 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 06 Nov 2006 17:13:49 +0100 Subject: Logins Message-ID: <80odrkv9he.fsf@free.fr> I'm usung Slackware 11.0 --current I set up 11 ttys more to experiment than enything else and just noticed that if a user is already logged in that user cannot then login on another tty from tty7 to tty11 >From tty1 to tty6 seems OK It seems weird Is it security or have I possibly misconfigured something? -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:32:18 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:32:18 -0500 Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <454F4AD8.2020706-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061106020559.28165.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <454F4AD8.2020706@golden.net> Message-ID: Anyone wanting to avoid having to used closed source drivers may want to steer clear of these and get either an Intel graphics chip, or any discrete ATI chip from before the X1xxx series, preferably something r200-based, like a 9250 or 8500, if you want the best free driver support. On 11/6/06, John Myshrall wrote: http://www.factorydirect.ca/email_html/061103_FS.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:27:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:27:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMyth event round-up In-Reply-To: <454F4AD8.2020706-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <454F4AD8.2020706@golden.net> Message-ID: <20061106162741.44599.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Myshrall wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Merv Curley wrote: > > > >> On Saturday 04 November 2006 19:35, Colin > McGregor > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Just to sum up what happened at 169 Eastern > today > >>> > >> with > >> > >>> the KnoppMyth install event. > >>> > >>> > > > For those interested there are FX 5200 Cards > available for $ 29.99 > coupon required. They are refurbs though. > > http://www.factorydirect.ca/email_html/061103_FS.htm > > John Interesting stuff. nVidia cards (like the above) are well supported under Linux, and depending on details these can be great cards for MythTV. Key questions I would be asking are: - Does this card have a fan? - Does this card only have VGA connector? A yes to either question above will make the card less desirable. You want a MythTV box to be QUIET so all the noise you hear is what is happening on screen, so a fan on the video card is undesirable. Most people will want an easy way to connect the video card to their TV, which is greatly helped by a composite video or SVideo connector on the video card (SVideo gives higher quality, and there are SVideo -> composite video adaptors (which I have because my home TV while it has a composite video in jack it does NOT have a SVideo jack)). These cards are not good enough for some of the latest Linux games but can deal with anything MythTV can throw at them. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:39:54 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:39:54 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611060811h2a8173f1oddb3fc2d929760ef-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <1e55af990611060811h2a8173f1oddb3fc2d929760ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? >> >> I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have >> some content filtering service. > > Just as a semi-related aside, you may want to also look into ad > blocking. Through 'walking the web', it's possible that an ad could > land her on a porn-related site, so blocking ads might be a good idea. > > I use firefox and adblock, and I have it update its filters using the > 'Adblock Filterset.G Updater' > > http://adblock.mozdev.org > http://forum.pierceive.com/viewtopic.php?t=37 (I'm not sure if this > link is any good anymore.. it didn't work for me when I tried it just > now.) Take a look at adblock plus. Yeah, I know, sounds silly, but the functionality is much enhanced. Filterset.g integrates with it as well. http://adblockplus.org/en/ Regarding the original question, how about privoxy in conjunction with squidguardian and/or dansguardian? http://www.privoxy.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:43:39 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:43:39 -0500 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454F663B.8000401@telly.org> Robert Brockway wrote: > The FSF is sponsoring: > http://www.fsf.org/news/gnewsense > > I can't think of any previous occassion in which the FSF has sponsored > a distro. Those of us longer of tooth will recall that Debian's original claim to fame was its sponsorship by the FSF, which paid Ian Murdock a salary during the distro's earliest days. I, for one, am not surprised that more details exist regarding the 1996 split than about the relationship itself. Of course there are at least two sides to every story. Debian's POV (from Bruce Perens): http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhonarc-files/debian-announce/msg00014.html http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9603/0480.html FSF's POV (from Richard Stallman): http://archive.humbug.org.au/ujgKlojfO1uLC2whuEzAUA== Frankly, given all the baggage and history I find the release of Gnewsense almost hilarous, as it's trivial to maintain a 100% free-software installation of Debian or Ubuntu today without the FSF's help. OTOH, It finally gives those who are highly bugged by the phrase "Linux system" a fire hydrant around which to congregate and decry the linguisic insult of the masses. Maybe this means they'll leave the rest of us alone on that issue, in which case the release is worthwhile. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:49:33 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:49:33 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, there's a more relevant except from the GPL concerning this: "Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software patents. We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all." Seems to me that this is identical to what Novell has done, licensed patents, but not for everyone. I don't think it takes a lawyer to figure out that there's a conflict here. I just hope somebody cares about combatting this FUD enough to take them to court and force their hand. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:07:38 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:07:38 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454F2D2F.4010507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <454F23CA.4050708@rogers.com> <454F2D2F.4010507@rogers.com> Message-ID: One must keep in mind that though there are some desktop software components powering the 770, it only has 64MB of RAM, and 128MB of onboard flash, 64MB of which is free for installing extra applications into. So far I haven't hit the space problem, and anyone sufficiently determined can runn stuff off of a memory card with more space, but the RAM limitations are a definite issue to think about when writing/porting software. That being said, gnumeric has been ported to the platform, but I haven't tried it, can't comment. On 11/6/06, James Knott wrote: > > I gather from your previous message that apps are not a problem in that > the standard Linux apps can be recomiled. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 16:59:47 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:59:47 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <1162825082.24592.13.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <1162825082.24592.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <454F6A03.5080104@telly.org> Interlug wrote: > Or as an alternative, setup a firewall (like IPCop) with a filter (like > Dan's Guardian). Dan's Guardian is a very good solution; just be aware that it filters based on content, rather than source. It does not maintain lists of bad sites, rather it maintains policy based on content to be "affected". If you still want to maintain a blacklist as well, there's a commercial subscription project, http://urlblacklist.com/ which works with Dan's Guardian. Or you can build your own. > - log violations, but allow the content (great for initial testing of your config!) > This is actually a usable policy as an alternative to blocking, for companies that don't want too many restrictions on employees. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:03:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:03:09 -0500 Subject: NEW DVD burner and still only 5.9X !! anyone getting better In-Reply-To: <1162743254.31487.61.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162743254.31487.61.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061106170309.GT8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 11:14:10AM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > I had a older plextor model that was 8X and I have gotten almost 8x > burning of DVD at times but usually about 6x > > just got a brand new plextor dual layer, etc,etc, > and its the same, > on a Maxell 16X i get 5.9X > > i made sure the iso was on my sata controller drive and the DVD burner > is on my PATA/IDE. My vmware is off (as that really screws up the > burner, i.e. windows wants to get its fingers in on the process). > > anyone getting DVD that burn at 10X or higher? > if so what burner (make model) and what media (make and model)? > > also i checked and everything is DMA on. > > this new plextor is supposed to have some smart technology that analysis > the DVD (if it isnt in its internal table) and arrive at a best burning > strategy. I have tried with philips, maxell pro and ridata, > all come in at 5.9x (or close to it). > I am wondering if this smart technology only works with the windows > drivers and for LINUX i am SOL for anything better then 5.9X > > also anyone every tried burning a dual layer 8.5GB DVD+R DL on linux? > > oh by the way i am using K3B for burning, it uses growisofs, not sure if > there is another base for DVD burning for Linux, i used to use cdrecord, > and I think it does DVD's now, but i found grow was better, at least > years ago. Make absolutely sure you are using an 80wire cable for the DVD writer. I had amazing problems with my 16x drive until I realized I should have changed the cable when I replaced my DVD-ROM drive with the DVD-writer. After putting in the 80wire IDE cable, it works perfectly. Without it, the drive has to drop to a much lower transfer speed, which many fast DVD-writers don't support properly (since they can't do full speed at that point). My retail PX760 came with an 80wire cable in the box. OEM drives of course do not include a cable and it is up to you to get the right kind. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:16:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:16:35 -0500 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: <454F663B.8000401-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> <454F663B.8000401@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061106171635.GU8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 11:43:39AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Those of us longer of tooth will recall that Debian's original claim to > fame was its sponsorship by the FSF, which paid Ian Murdock a salary > during the distro's earliest days. I, for one, am not surprised that > more details exist regarding the 1996 split than about the relationship > itself. > > Of course there are at least two sides to every story. > > Debian's POV (from Bruce Perens): > http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhonarc-files/debian-announce/msg00014.html > http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9603/0480.html > > FSF's POV (from Richard Stallman): > http://archive.humbug.org.au/ujgKlojfO1uLC2whuEzAUA== > > Frankly, given all the baggage and history I find the release of > Gnewsense almost hilarous, as it's trivial to maintain a 100% > free-software installation of Debian or Ubuntu today without the FSF's > help. OTOH, It finally gives those who are highly bugged by the phrase > "Linux system" a fire hydrant around which to congregate and decry the > linguisic insult of the masses. Maybe this means they'll leave the rest > of us alone on that issue, in which case the release is worthwhile. But debian already calls it Debian GNU/Linux. Other than not having completely banished the firmware in the kernel, and not having denounced the non-free section, and not thinking the GNU documentation license is "free", what else could FSF have against Debian? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:28:58 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:28:58 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <002a01c701a9$6d98a6d0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002a01c701a9$6d98a6d0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1162834138.10979.162.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 08:42 -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > There is an add-in for Squid called squidguard. Has anyone used it? We've used it. It filters based on URL. So it's loaded with a list of hostnames and a list of regexps to search URL paths. The lists and regexps are updated regularly. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:33:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:33:00 -0500 Subject: Now FSF has a distribution In-Reply-To: <20061106171635.GU8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611031611u7b6c41ek2677769cccc057eb@mail.gmail.com> <454F663B.8000401@telly.org> <20061106171635.GU8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <454F71CC.2030100@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > But debian already calls it Debian GNU/Linux. For a short while after the split it went to "Debian Linux", then after a cooling off period reinstated the "GNU/Linux" term. > Other than not having completely banished the firmware in the kernel, and not having denounced the non-free section, and not thinking the GNU documentation license is "free", what else could FSF have against Debian? > Those things -- maybe any one of them -- could be enough, not to mention yet other factors which you or I may think trivial. We are, after all, talking about an organization that even supporters would acknowledge is known to be uncompromising. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:39:18 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:39:18 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611060939i3cbce34cj40e37818fbb6c894@mail.gmail.com> On 11/6/06, Simon wrote: > Actually, there's a more relevant except from the GPL concerning this: > > "Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software > patents. We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free > program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the > program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any > patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all." > > Seems to me that this is identical to what Novell has done, licensed > patents, but not for everyone. I don't think it takes a lawyer to > figure out that there's a conflict here. I just hope somebody cares > about combatting this FUD enough to take them to court and force their > hand. That's the preamble though, I don't *think* it has any bite. I actually think this is one place where the preamble is contradicted by the license. The GPL itself is very careful to not talk about "use" and expressly says that it doesn't cover anything involving use. "...Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted, and..." I'm not worried abotu the MS/Novell news, Novell is in a lot of business other than just Linux. I might be missing something but does anyone have info that there is any connection between this agreement and "Linux IP?" -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 17:59:39 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:59:39 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: Please tell me fleshpumping doesn't mean what I think it does.. >.< On 11/5/06, Peter P. wrote: > Outside the US the 'Made in USA' label counts much less. One can count on them > working hard on that angle. The case of the Linuxisation of Munich is perhaps a > case in point. Last minute fleshpumping visit from MS officials to try to save > what the usual methods failed to achieve, and they still failed. The > fleshpumping and lobbying step can be seen everywhere where large sales were > made by that company. I would expect their success at walking away from damning > condemnations in courts to be equally impaired and not to result in the judge > being taken off the case for a technicality after he made a decision (allusion > to Penfield Jackson) outside their home turf. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 18:17:28 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:17:28 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Since I'm in the market for a laptop, I thought I'd revive an old thread. I was wondering if anyone had experience (good or bad) with emperorlinux.com? Also, in general some earlier threads mentioned that Dell laptops are tricky with linux. They add a mark up to pre-install linux on the Dell laptop. I don't mind paying some markup to be sure everything works out of the box, but I am wondering if I should be worried about having potential problems with compatibility down the road as I update the software, kernel, and OS? I beleive they modify the kernel slightly for dell compatibility and provide modified updates of future kernels (but what if they go out of business/get bought up by someone less competent/change pricing/etc.?). I'm looking at the D820 latitude series (http://emperorlinux.com/systems/large/rhino/?tab=customize&cust_ikey=D820). I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice you might have. Alex On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, Franco Saliola wrote: > emperorlinux.com sells a range of laptops from different vendors with > linux installed for you. You can specify which distro you want them to > install. Even if you don't buy from them, their existence is proof > that linux will work on those laptops. > > Franco > > -- > > On 8/31/05, Muhammad Imran wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > I am buying a Laptop for Linux. If anybody bought a laptop recently that > > works fine with Linux (without lot of trouble), please let me know which > > one. > > I am thinking to buy Dell Inspiron 6000 or Sony VAIO FS645PH. has anybody > > tried linux on these? > > > > any thoughts.... > > thanks guys. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG > > requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 18:07:10 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:07:10 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611060939i3cbce34cj40e37818fbb6c894-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060939i3cbce34cj40e37818fbb6c894@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You must have missed a lot, cause the agreement was all about Linux, to my understanding. And from last Friday, this completely confirms the "Novell sells out" hypothesis: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2050848,00.asp?kc=EWEWEMNL103006EP17A The distributors of other versions of Linux cannot assure their customers that Microsoft won't sue for patent infringement. "If a customer says, 'Look, do we have liability for the use of your patented work?' Essentially, If you're using non-SUSE Linux, then I'd say the answer is yes," Ballmer said. "I suspect that [customers] will take that issue up with their distributor," Ballmer said. Or if customers are considering doing a direct download of a non-SUSE Linux version, "they'll think twice about that," he said. However, Ballmer did not say whether Microsoft had any plans to file patent infringement suits against other Linux distributors. Seeing as how I read that on Saturday, one can understand why I said I hope someone legally terminates this FUD-mongering. Simon On 11/6/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > I'm not worried abotu the MS/Novell news, Novell is in a lot of > business other than just Linux. I might be missing something but does > anyone have info that there is any connection between this agreement > and "Linux IP?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 18:30:33 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:30:33 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: With regards to Linksys routers, I recommend the Motorola WR850G as a much cheaper equivalent. I bought mine on College St. last month for $32. However, I haven't tried putting OpenWRT on it, mainly because the latest first-party firmware is so good that I haven't needed to yet (I can use the thing as an AP instead of router with the first-party firmware). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 18:40:34 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:40:34 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He hasn't had it for long, but my dad recently bought an Averatec AV-1050 laptop from Best Buy when it was on sale for $700. Ubuntu hung on boot when there was an MMC card in the built in reader (it resumed when I unplugged the card), so that may be a problem, but everything else (graphics, wireless), works out of the box. The wireless is a Ralink RT2500 chipset, fyi. The laptop itself is the size of a sheet of letter size paper, and Windows estimated that it would have 4 hours of battery life when I unplugged it and hovered the cursor over the battery applet. All in all, I'd have bought one if I could justify it at all, but I can't really.. :( Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 19:20:52 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:20:52 -0500 Subject: Upgrading to Firefox 2.0? In-Reply-To: References: <50992.207.188.67.51.1162695219.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <92ee967a0611050925t748ca69dof4c23d7a6f59f37a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611051218l7b8c6e43ga661f1224a4e3fb9@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420611051921r43386529oe508b9cd113cbbd6@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060540o5bceebffgeab85686f6135bb@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0611060939i3cbce34cj40e37818fbb6c894@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611061120q59f38e22yb7d7a28226420b0d@mail.gmail.com> On 11/6/06, Simon wrote: > You must have missed a lot, cause the agreement was all about Linux, > to my understanding. And from last Friday, this completely confirms > the "Novell sells out" hypothesis: > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2050848,00.asp?kc=EWEWEMNL103006EP17A You're right... nuclear war. http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/default.mspx It's bizzare, Novell exclusively holds little to no Linux IP. It's like a loophole on the word "use" in the GPL. MS is threatening to sue Novell's customers, and in response, Novell compromised by cross-licensing patents with MS? The long term effect on this would be that nobody can "use" Linux unless they pay a big distributor. Even developers don't seem to be immune. The developer clause only seems to apply to the code which the developer contributes, and corporate contributors (e.g. Redhat developers), aren't protected. I was flipping through Groklaw, and there are comparisons made between this and SCO. I don't think the comparsions are reasonable, patents have always been a concern for free software. Patents have always been a concern for commercial software. What if patent holders started suing Microsoft's customers? e.g Redhat launches a personal lawsuit against Steve Ballmer's children. I'm sure they use Windows. I'm sure they've violated some of Redhat's patents. It *is* bizzare. I *have* been sleeping on this. Strange event. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 19:01:24 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:01:24 -0500 Subject: OTLooking for a Linux sys admin job... In-Reply-To: <454F3BDD.60307-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <454F3BDD.60307@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <1162839684.10979.167.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 08:42 -0500, VGS wrote: > Hi, > > I am posting this as I did not find job enquiries specifically > prohibited in the rules. Hi Shinoj, We happen to have two positions open. Send me a resume. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 19:15:26 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:15:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: Simon writes: > Please tell me fleshpumping doesn't mean what I think it does.. >.< If I have to tell you then I assume that you imply a meaning I did not think about, but you did ... so I'll explain what I meant: Fleshpumping is the generic term for what some politicians and businesspeople do to (a) future victim(s)/sucker(s)/elector(s) when they grab their hand and shake it at some length while smiling pleasantly, usually done in public or as a photo opportunity, during election campaigns but also during other public occasions. Fleshpumping usually precedes or follows after a successfull business, financial or political operation or political event of some kind, or is an attempt at faking the success of same operation or even of the operation itself. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 19:59:55 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:59:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061106061453.GA3413@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: John Macdonald writes: > > On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 09:17:26AM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > > > This paragraph is slightly confusing Could you please rephrase it a little ? > > If a company sends you a legal notice that you are infringing on > their patent, the notice will describe the conceptual process and > results you are carrying out and achieving. It will not matter > whether you were allowed to copy the code - it is duplicating > the patented process without a license that is the violation. > So, whether your code is covered by GPL, derived from the original > Bell Labs release code, or whatever does not affect that you are > breaching the patent. (It might help you in your course of > proving that the patent is invalid; but in the mean time you may > received an injunction that forces you to stop selling your > product for a while.) Yes but if the company is in the US and the user is elsewhere and the disputed patent is a software patent, then no injunction can be sent, no ? ... > A patent would mean there were chunks of functionality that > could not be deliver to U.S. users of any distribution. If the > component involved was sufficiently critical, people would > spend time working around the patent; but if the work-around > was too costly (either making things too slow, or reducing > functionality significantly), there would be a fork for the > rest of the world's users who would not want to pay the cost > for a legal issue that didn't affect them. That leaves lots of > developers spending time developing two versions of the code - > taking more than twice as much time to do that portion of the > development. This would leave MS laughing in the background > the way they did back in the days when there were lots of > Unix vendors who did a better job of fighting each other than > in fighting MS (or the way we've been able to laugh about MS > being forced to make special distributions for regions that > flex their anti-trust laws sufficiently). But free OSS software has most of the value in after-installation setup and services, no ? So why do two versions, losing twice the money, so they can be supported equally after that ? In a way the US patent law as it is now in this context (software patents), is a form of protectionism. They sort of force NIH methods out by allowing the patenting of underlying (often obvious, in the mathematical sense) principles, as opposed to patenting the implementation (the IH in the NIH). As to who fights whom, I think that in a democracy there should be three or more parties. When there aren't, it is not a democracy anymore. The point is that most 'interesting' (my subjective take) software development and most of the hard work in programming is being done by IT professionals who do not (yet) have US citizenship yet often work in or for US companies. This is a little strange, no ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 20:31:05 2006 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:31:05 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <454EA6E4.1080108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <454EA6E4.1080108@telly.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> At 10:07 PM 11/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More >smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... > >http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 > >Sold unlocked in the US because it's not currently being offered by any >GSM carrier. > >- Evan Thanks. I went to Motorola's site and looked at it. Regretfully, not for my purposes. Why: - 240 x 320 color screen (too small FOR ME, I want something at least 640 x 480) Harder to see small screens when you're over 50. - still, I could live with a small screen, BUT..... it's a phone -- the physical size means lower battery life - no development system on it (it's a phone...) Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 21:26:26 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:26:26 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20061106212626.GA13830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 03:31:05PM -0500, Stan Witkowski wrote: >>Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More >>smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... >> >>http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 >> >>Sold unlocked in the US because it's not currently being offered by any >>GSM carrier. >Regretfully, not for my purposes. > >Why: > >- 240 x 320 color screen (too small FOR ME, I want something at least 640 >x 480) > Harder to see small screens when you're over 50. > >- still, I could live with a small screen, BUT..... it's a phone -- > the physical size means lower battery life > >- no development system on it (it's a phone...) I am not arguing your logic - you know your needs - but just because something is a phone does not mean that it doesn't have a development environment: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 21:32:10 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:32:10 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <20061106212626.GA13830-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> <20061106212626.GA13830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I don't think that the Greenphone has a dev kit ON it - but then again, I don't think the 770 does either, though I don't see why one couldn't install it on the 770, everything is packaged up already, it just doesn't seem to be the prevailing thing to do, probably because of the flash storage limitation. On 11/6/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 03:31:05PM -0500, Stan Witkowski wrote: > > >>Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More > >>smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... > >> > >>http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 > >> > >>Sold unlocked in the US because it's not currently being offered by any > >>GSM carrier. > > >Regretfully, not for my purposes. > > > >Why: > > > >- 240 x 320 color screen (too small FOR ME, I want something at least 640 > >x 480) > > Harder to see small screens when you're over 50. > > > >- still, I could live with a small screen, BUT..... it's a phone -- > > the physical size means lower battery life > > > >- no development system on it (it's a phone...) > > I am not arguing your logic - you know your needs - but just because > something is a phone does not mean that it doesn't have a development > environment: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone > -- > > yours, > > William > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFFT6iCHQtmiuz+KT8RAnZOAJwLTFjdhB76XMKiThY2kQJWGZDsIQCfStzl > aeW9/mYds7Al8u5uH8X+ASI= > =j8tQ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 21:33:02 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:33:02 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> <20061106212626.GA13830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Sorry, I meant that I know the 770 doesn't have a dev kit on it, I wasn't thinking when I typed that.. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 21:13:57 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:13:57 -0500 Subject: NEW DVD burner and still only 5.9X !! anyone getting better In-Reply-To: <20061106170309.GT8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1162743254.31487.61.camel@stan64.site> <20061106170309.GT8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1162847637.4632.2.camel@stan64.site> I had the right cable, i tried it in the primary IDE instead of the secondary, its is now a slave on the primary, and its is touching 12X so it is a good bit better but on the other had now it spins down the odd time, to 0x, i think its probably averaging 9-10 now, maybe i am now running into an issue with the media not letting me get to 16X, who knows, but definitly the IDE0 (verse) IDE1 has made a immediate difference. -tl On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 12:03 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 11:14:10AM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > I had a older plextor model that was 8X and I have gotten almost 8x > > burning of DVD at times but usually about 6x > > > > just got a brand new plextor dual layer, etc,etc, > > and its the same, > > on a Maxell 16X i get 5.9X > > > > i made sure the iso was on my sata controller drive and the DVD burner > > is on my PATA/IDE. My vmware is off (as that really screws up the > > burner, i.e. windows wants to get its fingers in on the process). > > > > anyone getting DVD that burn at 10X or higher? > > if so what burner (make model) and what media (make and model)? > > > > also i checked and everything is DMA on. > > > > this new plextor is supposed to have some smart technology that analysis > > the DVD (if it isnt in its internal table) and arrive at a best burning > > strategy. I have tried with philips, maxell pro and ridata, > > all come in at 5.9x (or close to it). > > I am wondering if this smart technology only works with the windows > > drivers and for LINUX i am SOL for anything better then 5.9X > > > > also anyone every tried burning a dual layer 8.5GB DVD+R DL on linux? > > > > oh by the way i am using K3B for burning, it uses growisofs, not sure if > > there is another base for DVD burning for Linux, i used to use cdrecord, > > and I think it does DVD's now, but i found grow was better, at least > > years ago. > > Make absolutely sure you are using an 80wire cable for the DVD writer. > I had amazing problems with my 16x drive until I realized I should have > changed the cable when I replaced my DVD-ROM drive with the DVD-writer. > After putting in the 80wire IDE cable, it works perfectly. Without it, > the drive has to drop to a much lower transfer speed, which many fast > DVD-writers don't support properly (since they can't do full speed at > that point). > > My retail PX760 came with an 80wire cable in the box. OEM drives of > course do not include a cable and it is up to you to get the right kind. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 22:19:23 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:19:23 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee@mail.gmail.com> I received a "Rhino" from Emperor Linux about 3 weeks ago. It's a re-branded Dell Precision M90. I chose an expensive model because I wanted a semi-portable desktop replacement. The specs are: - Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2 GHz w/ 4MB cache - nVidia video card with VGA out, DVI out, SVideo out, and 512 MB video RAM (don't remember the chipset) - 2 GB RAM - 80 GB hdd @ 7200 RPM - DVD burner - Intel's 3xxx wireless (I can't remember the exact spec--it does 802.11 a/b/g) - 17" wide-screen monitor capable of 1920x1200 - built-in bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, etc. I was happy with the pre-sale service. The order was put together quickly, and the person I spoke to (I think it was Lincoln--the owner) was friendly and helpful. Shipping was timely and fairly inexpensive. I ordered my machine with Ubuntu pre-installed because I don't have any experience with any of the available distributions and Ubuntu has the most "buzz" right now. When the machine arrived, it included everything that Dell had shipped to Emperor Linux (e.g. the Windows installation medium) plus a nicely-bound manual explaining the basics of using Ubuntu on my new machine. The manual includes instructions to handle the first boot-up, some tips to help rank beginners get started with Ubuntu, and a few other details about the machine and its configuration. Booting the machine for the first time was a little exciting--a new, cutting edge laptop with full support under a free OS and zero to no setup on my part! Things went pretty well. Suspend-to-disk works fine (barring a few kernel modules that don't support it) and is triggerd by the "blue key" (Fn + Esc). Closing and then re-opening the lid brings up the "Screen Locked" display, so I have to provide my password to get back to the desktop. Networking was well configured, and the wireless card automatically found my wireless network and asked for the WEP key. (It also found all the neighbours' wirless networks, one of which I used to ssh to my machine upstairs to retrieve the WEP key from....) Most of the blue keys worked as advertised, including sound control, brightness control, the wireless radio antenna, and the CD-eject button. The battery life is also properly monitored and I get early warnings that I need to plug in AC at 20% and 10% left. (It might also warn me at more urgent levels, too, but I've never let it get that low.) I think there were a few more pleasant surprises in terms of hardware support, but I can't remember them now. Suffice it to say that I was very happy that everything worked as advertised. Then I tried to watch a movie on my television using the SVideo out port. I have an older Acer laptop that runs Gentoo Linux and also has an SVideo out. The old laptop is a little tricky and I have to boot it with the SVideo cable plugged in to be able to see anything on the TV (and, if I do, then there's nothing on the monitor). I find this somewhat irritating, but I've lived with it for several years. I figured, since the new laptop has SVideo out and supposedly has 100% hardware support, I should be able to plug it into the TV without rebooting. No luck. "Oh well," I think, "I'll just reboot with the TV plugged in." No dice. I can't get the SVideo working. Strike one. I bought this new laptop because I need a machine on which I can develop some resource-hungry Java stuff. I work from home Monday-Thursday, but I have to go into the office on Fridays. The old laptop was great until we switched from Rails to Java, so I needed a replacement that would allow me to be productive on Fridays. Part of "being productive on Fridays" means plugging in the VGA-out port and working on an ergonomically-superior external monitor. This doesn't work on my new machine. Strike two. This latest bug prompted me to call tech support at Emperor Linux. No go. The 1-800 number seems to be US-only. Oh well, I send an email and include my home phone number. I received a prompt reply saying roughly the following: - SVideo's not really supported 'cause we can't test it. You might be able to get it to work if you follow these underspecified and unsupported steps. - VGA-out should work, please send your Xorg.conf. - The 1-800 number should be working--we've been after our supplier about it--so please try again tomorrow. I sent the Xorg.conf file later the same day, before end of business. A week later, I still hadn't heard anything so I tried calling. My call still cannot be completed as dialed. So I sent a follow-up email: "Could I have a status update, please". It's been another week and I still haven't heard anything. Perhaps the techy I've been dealing with is on vacation, or something--I haven't tried emailing the general support email since the first contact--but I was not notified if that's the case. Strike three. I'm now in the process of installing Gentoo. I kept a complete backup of the factory-installed system. I also kept the various kernels, their configurations, and modules. Also, before reformatting, I made a list of all the packages that were installed. I figure with Gentoo, a little time, and the previously working configuration, I can build myself a machine that I can administer myself without the need for a tech support guru to walk me through the process. I'm sure I could eventually learn to make Ubuntu do exactly what I want, but I bought this machine to get out of a productivity hole with the expectation that 12 months of tech support would get me up to speed quickly. In this respect I am horribly disappointed. The Dell machine itself seems to be a good machine. It's very capable, and compatibility with Free and Open Source software seems to be good (although I am using the closed nVidia drivers). The various blue keys generate scan codes that the kernel recognizes, so, if nothing else, I can programme them as keyboard shortcuts from within Gnome to do whatever I want. Also, the monitor is excellent and the keyboard is a good size. Considering the power in my new laptop, the weight is respectable, but it might be too heavy for some users (the shipping weight was 16 pounds, I think the machine itself is about 8). Overall I'm happy with my purchase but I don't think I'll be a repeat Emperor Linux customer very soon. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 23:26:25 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:26:25 -0500 Subject: NEW DVD burner and still only 5.9X !! anyone getting better In-Reply-To: <1162847637.4632.2.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162743254.31487.61.camel@stan64.site> <20061106170309.GT8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1162847637.4632.2.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <454FC4A1.1030306@utoronto.ca> ted leslie wrote: > I had the right cable, > i tried it in the primary IDE instead of the secondary, > its is now a slave on the primary, > and its is touching 12X so it is a good bit better but > on the other had now it spins down the odd time, to 0x, > i think its probably averaging 9-10 now, maybe i am now running into > an issue with the media not letting me get to 16X, who knows, > but definitly the IDE0 (verse) IDE1 has made a immediate difference. Would taking whatever else in on that cable off entirely make things better? That is unless your other drive is another rom that isn't doing anything whist your other is burning... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 23:48:28 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:48:28 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Ian, Thanks very much for sharing your experiences with Emperor Linux. I'm also looking for a desk top replacement that works reliably on linux without much set up cost. I bought my current desktop directly from Dell with Redhat pre-installed. At the time, they had one high-end notebook with a Redhat option, but I don't find that any more. I'm a bit nervous buying it direct from Dell without some version of linux pre-installed, because I don't want to risk incompatibilities, particularly on a laptop. Buying from Emperor linux at least insures basic linux compatibility, but they seem to have a reasonably high mark up given your experience. I wonder if there are other good reliable alternatives? Alex On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Ian Petersen wrote: > I received a "Rhino" from Emperor Linux about 3 weeks ago. It's a > re-branded Dell Precision M90. I chose an expensive model because I > wanted a semi-portable desktop replacement. The specs are: > > - Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2 GHz w/ 4MB cache > - nVidia video card with VGA out, DVI out, SVideo out, and 512 MB > video RAM (don't remember the chipset) > - 2 GB RAM > - 80 GB hdd @ 7200 RPM > - DVD burner > - Intel's 3xxx wireless (I can't remember the exact spec--it does 802.11 a/b/g) > - 17" wide-screen monitor capable of 1920x1200 > - built-in bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, etc. > > I was happy with the pre-sale service. The order was put together > quickly, and the person I spoke to (I think it was Lincoln--the owner) > was friendly and helpful. Shipping was timely and fairly inexpensive. > > I ordered my machine with Ubuntu pre-installed because I don't have > any experience with any of the available distributions and Ubuntu has > the most "buzz" right now. When the machine arrived, it included > everything that Dell had shipped to Emperor Linux (e.g. the Windows > installation medium) plus a nicely-bound manual explaining the basics > of using Ubuntu on my new machine. The manual includes instructions > to handle the first boot-up, some tips to help rank beginners get > started with Ubuntu, and a few other details about the machine and its > configuration. > > Booting the machine for the first time was a little exciting--a new, > cutting edge laptop with full support under a free OS and zero to no > setup on my part! Things went pretty well. Suspend-to-disk works > fine (barring a few kernel modules that don't support it) and is > triggerd by the "blue key" (Fn + Esc). Closing and then re-opening > the lid brings up the "Screen Locked" display, so I have to provide my > password to get back to the desktop. Networking was well configured, > and the wireless card automatically found my wireless network and > asked for the WEP key. (It also found all the neighbours' wirless > networks, one of which I used to ssh to my machine upstairs to > retrieve the WEP key from....) Most of the blue keys worked as > advertised, including sound control, brightness control, the wireless > radio antenna, and the CD-eject button. The battery life is also > properly monitored and I get early warnings that I need to plug in AC > at 20% and 10% left. (It might also warn me at more urgent levels, > too, but I've never let it get that low.) > > I think there were a few more pleasant surprises in terms of hardware > support, but I can't remember them now. Suffice it to say that I was > very happy that everything worked as advertised. > > Then I tried to watch a movie on my television using the SVideo out > port. I have an older Acer laptop that runs Gentoo Linux and also has > an SVideo out. The old laptop is a little tricky and I have to boot > it with the SVideo cable plugged in to be able to see anything on the > TV (and, if I do, then there's nothing on the monitor). I find this > somewhat irritating, but I've lived with it for several years. I > figured, since the new laptop has SVideo out and supposedly has 100% > hardware support, I should be able to plug it into the TV without > rebooting. No luck. "Oh well," I think, "I'll just reboot with the > TV plugged in." No dice. I can't get the SVideo working. Strike > one. > > I bought this new laptop because I need a machine on which I can > develop some resource-hungry Java stuff. I work from home > Monday-Thursday, but I have to go into the office on Fridays. The old > laptop was great until we switched from Rails to Java, so I needed a > replacement that would allow me to be productive on Fridays. Part of > "being productive on Fridays" means plugging in the VGA-out port and > working on an ergonomically-superior external monitor. This doesn't > work on my new machine. Strike two. > > This latest bug prompted me to call tech support at Emperor Linux. No > go. The 1-800 number seems to be US-only. Oh well, I send an email > and include my home phone number. I received a prompt reply saying > roughly the following: > > - SVideo's not really supported 'cause we can't test it. You might > be able to get it to work if you follow these underspecified and > unsupported steps. > - VGA-out should work, please send your Xorg.conf. > - The 1-800 number should be working--we've been after our supplier > about it--so please try again tomorrow. > > I sent the Xorg.conf file later the same day, before end of business. > A week later, I still hadn't heard anything so I tried calling. My > call still cannot be completed as dialed. So I sent a follow-up > email: "Could I have a status update, please". It's been another week > and I still haven't heard anything. Perhaps the techy I've been > dealing with is on vacation, or something--I haven't tried emailing > the general support email since the first contact--but I was not > notified if that's the case. Strike three. > > I'm now in the process of installing Gentoo. I kept a complete backup > of the factory-installed system. I also kept the various kernels, > their configurations, and modules. Also, before reformatting, I made > a list of all the packages that were installed. I figure with Gentoo, > a little time, and the previously working configuration, I can build > myself a machine that I can administer myself without the need for a > tech support guru to walk me through the process. > > I'm sure I could eventually learn to make Ubuntu do exactly what I > want, but I bought this machine to get out of a productivity hole with > the expectation that 12 months of tech support would get me up to > speed quickly. In this respect I am horribly disappointed. > > The Dell machine itself seems to be a good machine. It's very > capable, and compatibility with Free and Open Source software seems to > be good (although I am using the closed nVidia drivers). The various > blue keys generate scan codes that the kernel recognizes, so, if > nothing else, I can programme them as keyboard shortcuts from within > Gnome to do whatever I want. Also, the monitor is excellent and the > keyboard is a good size. Considering the power in my new laptop, the > weight is respectable, but it might be too heavy for some users (the > shipping weight was 16 pounds, I think the machine itself is about 8). > > Overall I'm happy with my purchase but I don't think I'll be a repeat > Emperor Linux customer very soon. > > Ian > > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 6 08:42:56 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (pavel) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 3:42:56 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <8b981328a6bbedd1226e345c3bebe32a@localhost> Hello Ansar, I would suggest putting your computer into the living room where in can be used while you are there. Also you should be able to setup cacheing proxy and firewall, and store all the information of what has been browsed, so you can review and talk about it. As per google, jaded query can reveal the negative side of the issue, such as: http://www.google.ca/search?q=porn+filters+don't+work&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official Best porn filter is parent proactively surfing with children, to collect whichever materials they need. HTH, Pavel On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:42:11 -0500, "Ansar Mohammed" wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > some content filtering service. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 00:23:51 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:23:51 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20061107002351.GA25645@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 01:42:11AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > some content filtering service. Take a look at your history file, and parse out all the domains. Then, put them into 'named.conf'. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 00:27:35 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:27:35 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061107002735.GB25645@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 01:17:28PM -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > Since I'm in the market for a laptop, I thought I'd revive an old thread. I have Toshiba, Intel chipset. Highly recommend it. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 00:34:47 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:34:47 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <20061107002351.GA25645-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20061107002351.GA25645@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <200611061934.48057.softquake@gmail.com> On Monday 06 November 2006 19:23, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 01:42:11AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > > some content filtering service. > > Take a look at your history file, and parse out all the domains. Then, > put them into 'named.conf'. :-) ;) Or find out all urls from cached files from one session of online viewing ;) Very easy to do by using grep. Perhaps a work for 5 minutes.. Anyway, the issue is interesting. Someone suggested to put the computer in a living room. Certainly that's the best solution at home. But the question was if I remember well about school, not home. At school they will expect a "mechanical" solution to the problem. Besides, they probably have no willingness so much and human resources to view cached files and talk with kids.. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 00:41:50 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:41:50 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <8b981328a6bbedd1226e345c3bebe32a@localhost> References: <8b981328a6bbedd1226e345c3bebe32a@localhost> Message-ID: <007001c70205$842a3880$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> This is more an "after the fact". And this is for a school, not my home. You cant hold the mouse for your 8 year old forever; statistically 9 out of 10 kids from 8 to 14 have seen pornography online. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of pavel > Sent: November 6, 2006 3:43 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: GPL Porn Filter > > Hello Ansar, > I would suggest putting your computer into the living room where in can be > used > while you are there. Also you should be able to setup cacheing proxy and > firewall, > and store all the information of what has been browsed, so you can review > and > talk about it. > > As per google, jaded query can reveal the negative side of the issue, such > as: > http://www.google.ca/search?q=porn+filters+don't+work&start=0&ie=utf- > 8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official > > Best porn filter is parent proactively surfing with children, to collect > whichever > materials they need. > HTH, > Pavel > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:42:11 -0500, "Ansar Mohammed" > wrote: > > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to have > > some content filtering service. > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 00:51:44 2006 From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:51:44 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <20061107002735.GB25645-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107002735.GB25645@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20061106195043.04fc5d40@sympatico.ca> My Acer Travelmate 240 has FC3 on it, with only minor deficiencies. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 01:09:13 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:09:13 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <007001c70205$842a3880$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <8b981328a6bbedd1226e345c3bebe32a@localhost> <007001c70205$842a3880$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880611061709ka375989jf0bfd1a888ccfcf@mail.gmail.com> I've installed it on a network I help administor, my employer is happy with it. On 11/6/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > This is more an "after the fact". And this is for a school, not my home. > You cant hold the mouse for your 8 year old forever; statistically 9 out > of > 10 kids from 8 to 14 have seen pornography online. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of pavel > > Sent: November 6, 2006 3:43 AM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: GPL Porn Filter > > > > Hello Ansar, > > I would suggest putting your computer into the living room where in can > be > > used > > while you are there. Also you should be able to setup cacheing proxy and > > firewall, > > and store all the information of what has been browsed, so you can > review > > and > > talk about it. > > > > As per google, jaded query can reveal the negative side of the issue, > such > > as: > > http://www.google.ca/search?q=porn+filters+don't+work&start=0&ie=utf- > > 8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official > > > > Best porn filter is parent proactively surfing with children, to collect > > whichever > > materials they need. > > HTH, > > Pavel > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:42:11 -0500, "Ansar Mohammed" > > wrote: > > > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I need to > have > > > some content filtering service. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 01:32:33 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:32:33 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200611062032.33728.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 06 November 2006 13:17, Alex Maynard wrote: > Since I'm in the market for a laptop, I thought I'd revive an old thread. [snip] > I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice you might have. I have a few months old Dell Inspiron 6400. It has the Core Duo T2500 IIRC. It works well with the latest kubuntu, even those cute volume and mute buttons work out of the box. One rather large issue I have with it though is that the onboard NIC uses the b44 driver and this driver works poorly, if at all, under Xen. If you're thinking to run Xen I'd steer clear of laptops with this NIC. I've seen rumours that it can be made to work but so far my limited attempts have failed so I'm using USB ethernet instead to run my Kubuntu/Xen RHEL laptop cluster ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 01:56:36 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:56:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft-Novell deal spells death knell for Open Source? Message-ID: <20061107015636.96663.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> For those with a warped sense of humour IT World Canada has a story that almost sounds like it was created by someone on ... recreational non-prescription pharmaceutical drugs titles "Microsoft-Novell deal spells death knell for Open Source?" www.itworldcanada.com/a/Daily-News/d7d04eef-6ff9-4d18-947a-219ed84ee3dc.html My take is this deal might be a serious blow to Novell, but I very much doubt it will have ANY significant impact on open source outside the USA (and even there only a limited impact...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 02:01:23 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:01:23 -0500 Subject: Best laptop for Linux Message-ID: <454FE8F3.2020800@rogers.com> I have an Acer Aspire 5003 (Turion 34, 512 MB ram, 100GB HDD) that runs almost flawlessly using MEPIS 6 and I can say with a certainty that it runs Linux better that it does Win XP. The special fn+ keys seem to work fine and the battery life is about 2.5 hours. The only downsides that I have encountered are that the Broadcom 43xx wireless nic required ndiswrapper and the modem doesn't seem to work, however I don't really have a need for it so I didn't try very hard to make the modem work. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 02:04:17 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:04:17 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20061106195043.04fc5d40-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107002735.GB25645@wp.magstar.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20061106195043.04fc5d40@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <454FE9A1.3080205@telly.org> I have a lot of respect for Emperor Linux; However, their value-add diminishes daily, IMO. Every new release of desktop distributions such as Linspire, (K)ubuntu Mandriva or PCLinuxOS makes Linux easier to install from the bootup CD. Anyone with enough skill (and sense) to ask a question on this list is capable of putting in a CD, repartitioning the disk and getting to speed in a reasonable amount of time. The old looking-for-drivers slog isn't what it used to be -- distros now have support for docking stations, accelerated X drivers, and other peripherals better than ever. I've personally had very good luck with Thinkpads (X and T series), and find them extremely well supported by tools such as tpctl and sites such as thinkwiki.org - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 02:29:11 2006 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:29:11 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1162866551.2223.1.camel@ambipapa> On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 01:42 -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter solution? > I use DansGuardian at home and am pretty happy with it. It does block some legit sites, but has config file(s) to which those URLs can be added to unblock. K. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 02:55:46 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:55:46 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611061709ka375989jf0bfd1a888ccfcf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8b981328a6bbedd1226e345c3bebe32a@localhost> <007001c70205$842a3880$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <32f6a8880611061709ka375989jf0bfd1a888ccfcf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Not sure it this was mentioned in this thread already but another is http://www.censornet.com Dave Germiquet wrote: > I've installed it on a network I help administor, my employer is happy > with it. > > On 11/6/06, *Ansar Mohammed* > wrote: > > This is more an "after the fact". And this is for a school, not my > home. > You cant hold the mouse for your 8 year old forever; statistically > 9 out of > 10 kids from 8 to 14 have seen pornography online. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org ] On Behalf Of > pavel > > Sent: November 6, 2006 3:43 AM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: GPL Porn Filter > > > > Hello Ansar, > > I would suggest putting your computer into the living room where > in can be > > used > > while you are there. Also you should be able to setup cacheing > proxy and > > firewall, > > and store all the information of what has been browsed, so you > can review > > and > > talk about it. > > > > As per google, jaded query can reveal the negative side of the > issue, such > > as: > > > http://www.google.ca/search?q=porn+filters+don't+work&start=0&ie=utf- > > > 8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls= org.mozilla:en-US:official > > > > Best porn filter is parent proactively surfing with children, to > collect > > whichever > > materials they need. > > HTH, > > Pavel > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:42:11 -0500, "Ansar Mohammed" < > ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > > wrote: > > > Does anyone know a good GPL/LGPL/FLOSS network Porn Filter > solution? > > > I am setting up a network at my daughter's pre-school and I > need to have > > > some content filtering service. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 03:13:34 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:13:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Simon | | He hasn't had it for long, but my dad recently bought an Averatec | AV-1050 laptop from Best Buy when it was on sale for $700. Are you sure that it is a 1050 (Pentium M)? I paid that price for a 1020 (Celeron M) from Best Buy. They didn't seem to carry the 1050 (Futureshop did, but for twice the price). | Ubuntu | hung on boot when there was an MMC card in the built in reader (it | resumed when I unplugged the card), so that may be a problem, I haven't tried to MMC card. | but | everything else (graphics, wireless), works out of the box. The | wireless is a Ralink RT2500 chipset, fyi. I think that means 1020 -- I think that the 1050 uses an Intel wireless chip. I have not got the wireless going under Ubuntu, but have perhaps not tried hard enough. Or too hard. Kismet is working, so the actual driver is going. | The laptop itself is the | size of a sheet of letter size paper, and Windows estimated that it | would have 4 hours of battery life when I unplugged it and hovered the | cursor over the battery applet. All in all, I'd have bought one if I | could justify it at all, but I can't really.. :( The display is small, but it has a fairly standard number of pixels: 1280x768. The brand hasn't got a great reputation. For example, there has never been a published BIOS update (and not because it is bug free -- there are some ACPI bugs). I just hope I don't need support. My current belief is that notebooks with Intel chips are the best bet. Intel has been pretty good releasing open source drivers (wireless, video, etc.). AMD doesn't make chipsets (unless you count ATI as part of AMD) so AMD-based notebooks are a grab-bag of chips, only some of which are decently supported. The newer the chip, the less likely that support has flowed into standard distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 03:54:32 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:54:32 -0500 Subject: Best laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <454FE8F3.2020800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <454FE8F3.2020800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45500378.3040005@utoronto.ca> John McGregor wrote: > I have an Acer Aspire 5003 (Turion 34, 512 MB ram, 100GB HDD) that runs > almost flawlessly using MEPIS 6 and I can say with a certainty that it > runs Linux better that it does Win XP. The special fn+ keys seem to work > fine and the battery life is about 2.5 hours. The only downsides that I > have encountered are that the Broadcom 43xx wireless nic required > ndiswrapper and the modem doesn't seem to work, however I don't really > have a need for it so I didn't try very hard to make the modem work. I haven't bothered with my (ASUS) notebook modem, but you could start here with the scanModem utility: http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/modemident.php hwinfo would likely be of considerable use as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 04:52:14 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:52:14 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061106235214.45cdb66a.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:17:28 -0500 Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > Since I'm in the market for a laptop, I thought I'd revive an old thread. > > I was wondering if anyone had experience (good or bad) with > emperorlinux.com? Alex, I bought an Acer Aspire 3620 with something called Linpus Linux on it. Linpus turned out to be nothing more than a command line. I installed FC3, which mostly worked. Then, I installed FC5 which completely works. I have since increased the RAM form 256MB to around 750MB, which improves the performance of the machine considerably. My only complaint so far is that the "mouse" button is incredibly sensitive, and seems to activate on its own. I have to be careful when I read email, or it deletes stuff I want to keep. This may be a mechanical problem, and I may take it back to the store for a look. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 05:58:17 2006 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:58:17 -0500 Subject: Handheld PDA units running Linux (or not) In-Reply-To: <20061106212626.GA13830-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061101144221.02f90900@mail.the-wire.com> <454D027D.6080301@rogers.com> <200611051112.50245.mervc@eol.ca> <454E1BDE.6050504@utoronto.ca> <454E50AF.2080108@rogers.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20061106152617.04c74bf0@mail.the-wire.com> <20061106212626.GA13830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20061107005110.00c2e110@mail.the-wire.com> >On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 03:31:05PM -0500, Stan Witkowski wrote: > >>Don't forget about another possibility, the Motorola E680i. More > >>smartphone than PDA, but then the lines between them are blurring... > >>http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=103 > > >Regretfully, not for my purposes. >............................................. > >- no development system on it (it's a phone...) >I am not arguing your logic - you know your needs - but just because >something is a phone does not mean that it doesn't have a development >environment: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone >"William O'Higgins Witteman" Thanks - I stand corrected on that. Out of curiosity, I had a look at the development environment, and pricing: ================================================================================= ================================================================================= Greenphone Pricing The Qtopia Greenphone development device itself costs $695 USD (not incl. tax) plus shipping and handling and must be ordered in conjunction with an appropriate SDK license, as follows: Greenphone SDK Professional * Development device $695 USD * License fee: There are various licensing options for Qtopia SDKs. Greenphone SDK Light * Total cost: $890 USD + shipping/handling and applicable taxes Greenphone Community SDK * Total cost: $695 USD + shipping/handling and applicable taxes ================================================================================= ================================================================================= Whew! I can't see paying that to develop a one-time application just for my personal use, especially one that I don't intend to sell. Overall, nothing would please me more than to be able to buy (like a toaster) an "appliance" kind of PDA that would allow me to generate stock charts at will, so that I NEVER had to do any (ugh) programming on it. I'd pay around $1,000 for something like that, perhaps more. I'm starting to lean towards not doing any of the work myself, and instead just hiring some TLUG guy to do it. I'll have to give that some thought. Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 07:38:24 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 02:38:24 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061106061453.GA3413@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20061107073824.GA8363@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 07:59:55PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > John Macdonald writes: > > > > > On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 09:17:26AM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > > > > > This paragraph is slightly confusing Could you please rephrase it a little ? > > > > If a company sends you a legal notice that you are infringing on > > their patent, the notice will describe the conceptual process and > > results you are carrying out and achieving. It will not matter > > whether you were allowed to copy the code - it is duplicating > > the patented process without a license that is the violation. > > So, whether your code is covered by GPL, derived from the original > > Bell Labs release code, or whatever does not affect that you are > > breaching the patent. (It might help you in your course of > > proving that the patent is invalid; but in the mean time you may > > received an injunction that forces you to stop selling your > > product for a while.) > > Yes but if the company is in the US and the user is elsewhere and the disputed > patent is a software patent, then no injunction can be sent, no ? That's fine for you for the moment, but if a company wants to make some money using Open Source, the U.S. is a huge chunk of their potential market. Cutting out the U.S. removes a lot of the profitability potential - which reduces the number of businesses that are funding developers, etc. Microsoft is not concerned about whether you can get free software in Canada at the moment, just in drying up the most profitable chunk of the market for the long term. > ... > > A patent would mean there were chunks of functionality that > > could not be deliver to U.S. users of any distribution. If the > > component involved was sufficiently critical, people would > > spend time working around the patent; but if the work-around > > was too costly (either making things too slow, or reducing > > functionality significantly), there would be a fork for the > > rest of the world's users who would not want to pay the cost > > for a legal issue that didn't affect them. That leaves lots of > > developers spending time developing two versions of the code - > > taking more than twice as much time to do that portion of the > > development. This would leave MS laughing in the background > > the way they did back in the days when there were lots of > > Unix vendors who did a better job of fighting each other than > > in fighting MS (or the way we've been able to laugh about MS > > being forced to make special distributions for regions that > > flex their anti-trust laws sufficiently). > > But free OSS software has most of the value in after-installation setup and > services, no ? So why do two versions, losing twice the money, so they can be > supported equally after that ? In a way the US patent law as it is now in this > context (software patents), is a form of protectionism. They sort of force NIH > methods out by allowing the patenting of underlying (often obvious, in the > mathematical sense) principles, as opposed to patenting the implementation (the > IH in the NIH). There is no value in the after-market if your customers can be sued for getting into the market in the first place. As a vendor, if you're going to make money in the U.S., you have to have a version that won't be stripped from your shelves with a court order. If you're going to make money anywhere else, you have to have a version that is not crippled. So, you either have two versions, or choose which market you are going to limit yourself to. As a developer, there are still the same two markets. The Linux development team is not going to make a non-U.S. only version of the kernel, nor would they want to just throw away functionality that is useful everywhere else in the world. > As to who fights whom, I think that in a democracy there should be three or > more parties. When there aren't, it is not a democracy anymore. > > The point is that most 'interesting' (my subjective take) software development > and most of the hard work in programming is being done by IT professionals who > do not (yet) have US citizenship yet often work in or for US companies. This is > a little strange, no ? That's where the largest amount of money is. Which just drives the argument that you can't just ignore the U.S. market. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 07:34:57 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 02:34:57 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/6/06, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Simon > | > | He hasn't had it for long, but my dad recently bought an Averatec > | AV-1050 laptop from Best Buy when it was on sale for $700. > > Are you sure that it is a 1050 (Pentium M)? I paid that price for a > 1020 (Celeron M) from Best Buy. They didn't seem to carry the 1050 > (Futureshop did, but for twice the price). whoops, this is what I get for not taking the time to check the model number, yeah, I meant 1020. If it were my own laptop I wouldn't have made this mistake, that's for sure :D Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 08:31:38 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 03:31:38 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061102132013.67396.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:20:13 -0500 (EST) Colin McGregor got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Enjoy. Any chance that would run on a P4 2.6, 512 DDR, w/ NVidia GeForce 4 Ti? Doom 3 is a stretch... :-\ -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Hey, you know what might be a hoot? Professor: No. Why would I know that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 11:55:14 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 06:55:14 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <200611061934.48057.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20061107002351.GA25645@wp.magstar.net> <200611061934.48057.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061107115514.GA29025@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 07:34:47PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >At school they will expect a "mechanical" solution to the problem. >Besides, they probably have no willingness so much and human resources >to view cached files and talk with kids.. The first step of education must be to the educators. They need to understand that porn filters do not work and therefore cannot be a solution. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 17:00:22 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:00:22 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061107033138.5f9417a0-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:20:13 -0500 (EST) > Colin McGregor got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> Enjoy. > > Any chance that would run on a P4 2.6, 512 DDR, w/ NVidia GeForce 4 Ti? > > Doom 3 is a stretch... :-\ > I've run it on less. Nothing like running it at 1280x1024 natively though :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 17:17:15 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:17:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061107033138.5f9417a0-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061107171716.31388.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:20:13 -0500 (EST) > Colin McGregor got an infinite number of monkeys to > type out: > > > Enjoy. > > Any chance that would run on a P4 2.6, 512 DDR, w/ > NVidia GeForce 4 Ti? > > Doom 3 is a stretch... :-\ Bottom line is your machine will not run Quake 4 in a playable fashion. Your CPU is more than fast enough, you have enough RAM, the problem is your video card. I started by attempting to play Quake 4 on a machine with an nVidia GeForce FX 5500, and the screen was jerky and the game was basicly unplayable. A shift to a GeForce 6200 and the game became quite playable (though NOT at the higher screen resolutions). The NVidia GeForce 4 as I understand it are not quite as good as the GeForce FX 5500. Now I paid about $60 for a GeForce 6200 card, so you are not talking big money to make your machine able to play Quake 4, but you will need the hardware upgrade. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 19:38:26 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:38:26 -0500 Subject: Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 Message-ID: <4550E0B2.6000302@alteeve.com> I'm trying to get a printer on a Ububtu box to be seen from a FC4 box, through a VPN. So far I can't see anyway to tell Ubuntu to share the printer other than directly editing the cupsd.conf file. Unfortunatly, all attempts at this have been frutless. If anyone had any proctical experience with sharing Ubuntu printers, or can point me in the right driection, I would appreciare the info. Googling hasn't produced usable results as of yet... Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 20:35:58 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:35:58 -0500 Subject: GPL Porn Filter In-Reply-To: <20061107115514.GA29025-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c7016e$b10825c0$0202fea9@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20061107002351.GA25645@wp.magstar.net> <200611061934.48057.softquake@gmail.com> <20061107115514.GA29025@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20061107203558.GV8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 06:55:14AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > The first step of education must be to the educators. They need to > understand that porn filters do not work and therefore cannot be a > solution. I agree. You can have none of the internet, all of the internet, or some random portion of it where you can have a slight influence over what the randomness is, but only a little. All filters have false positives and fail to filter things you wanted filtered. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 20:42:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:42:35 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061107171716.31388.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20061107171716.31388.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061107204235.GW8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 12:17:15PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Bottom line is your machine will not run Quake 4 in a > playable fashion. Your CPU is more than fast enough, > you have enough RAM, the problem is your video card. I > started by attempting to play Quake 4 on a machine > with an nVidia GeForce FX 5500, and the screen was > jerky and the game was basicly unplayable. A shift to > a GeForce 6200 and the game became quite playable > (though NOT at the higher screen resolutions). The > NVidia GeForce 4 as I understand it are not quite as > good as the GeForce FX 5500. Now I paid about $60 for > a GeForce 6200 card, so you are not talking big money > to make your machine able to play Quake 4, but you > will need the hardware upgrade. Hmm, I would have thought a 6200 was pathetic at everything, and a 5500 was workable. Looking at the specs though, the 6200 is actually slightly better than a 5500 in every way, and has 3 times the VPUs available. That should certainly make shader code happier. All I know is, that my 6600GT was a major improvement over my TNT2. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 20:44:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:44:34 -0500 Subject: NEW DVD burner and still only 5.9X !! anyone getting better In-Reply-To: <1162847637.4632.2.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1162743254.31487.61.camel@stan64.site> <20061106170309.GT8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1162847637.4632.2.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061107204434.GX8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 04:13:57PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > I had the right cable, > i tried it in the primary IDE instead of the secondary, > its is now a slave on the primary, > and its is touching 12X so it is a good bit better but > on the other had now it spins down the odd time, to 0x, > i think its probably averaging 9-10 now, maybe i am now running into > an issue with the media not letting me get to 16X, who knows, > but definitly the IDE0 (verse) IDE1 has made a immediate difference. What commandline are you using with it to write discs? What is the model of the drive? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 20:51:42 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:51:42 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061107205142.GY8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 05:19:23PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: [snip] > Then I tried to watch a movie on my television using the SVideo out > port. I have an older Acer laptop that runs Gentoo Linux and also has > an SVideo out. The old laptop is a little tricky and I have to boot > it with the SVideo cable plugged in to be able to see anything on the > TV (and, if I do, then there's nothing on the monitor). I find this > somewhat irritating, but I've lived with it for several years. I > figured, since the new laptop has SVideo out and supposedly has 100% > hardware support, I should be able to plug it into the TV without > rebooting. No luck. "Oh well," I think, "I'll just reboot with the > TV plugged in." No dice. I can't get the SVideo working. Strike > one. > > I bought this new laptop because I need a machine on which I can > develop some resource-hungry Java stuff. I work from home > Monday-Thursday, but I have to go into the office on Fridays. The old > laptop was great until we switched from Rails to Java, so I needed a > replacement that would allow me to be productive on Fridays. Part of > "being productive on Fridays" means plugging in the VGA-out port and > working on an ergonomically-superior external monitor. This doesn't > work on my new machine. Strike two. You have to configure the nvidia drivers to tell it to use both ports and how you want them used. The Readme for the closed source nvidia drivers has quite a bit of information on that. So far my experience even with the windows drivers is that you have to go and tell it to enable a port before it happens. Certainly nothing so far indicates gentoo will be an improvement. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 20:59:00 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:59:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061107205900.19648.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Small story about a Dell client in the UK getting the Microsoft tax refunded off his laptop: www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/110706-dell-windows.html Any PC where you don't have to pay the Microsoft tax is a good thing in my books :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 21:20:18 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:20:18 -0500 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <20061107205142.GY8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee@mail.gmail.com> <20061107205142.GY8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420611071320j59c8a966na5ed90f9abf0ac62@mail.gmail.com> > You have to configure the nvidia drivers to tell it to use both ports > and how you want them used. The Readme for the closed source nvidia > drivers has quite a bit of information on that. So far my experience > even with the windows drivers is that you have to go and tell it to > enable a port before it happens. Thanks for the heads-up. Friday, when I go back into the office, I'll look into it. > Certainly nothing so far indicates gentoo will be an improvement. Gentoo will be an improvement only because I already feel comfortable administering a Gentoo system whereas Ubuntu is sufficiently different that I am uncomfortable in that environment. I'm sure, given enough time, I could extend my Gentoo-specific knowledge to Ubuntu, but I bought the new laptop to save me time (the old one was too slow...) and the tech support that I paid for didn't come to my rescue, thus the disappointment. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 21:41:09 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:41:09 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell Message-ID: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> Much has been made here and elsewhere about the doomsday pact that Novell made with Microsoft and how it bodes evil for Linux in general. However, I have the gut feeling that Novell and only Novell found itself in the deep shit. Today I came across this press announcement on Linux World for Suse Enterprise Server 10 (originally publishedat approximately the same time as Novell states the negotiations with Microsoft began). Here is a selected quote form the article that is particularly telling: "The company also announced the Open Workspace Suite, a software package which includes GroupWise collaboration, ZENworks and Open Enterprise Server. Users of the Novell Open Workspace Suite can deploy either Windows XP or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on their workstations or laptops.' My bet is that this goes way beyond Samba and getting it to work required that Novell go wading in the Microsoft minefield. In the process, Novell gave Baldy, whose favourite hobby is spewing vituperative fud, enough ammunition to keep him happy for a long time. For the rest of us, simply avoiding Novell's solution (like the plague it is) will keep us well away from Microsoft's designs. The full article can be found here: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/032006-novell-suse-linux.html John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 22:09:00 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:09:00 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <4550FD75.4070708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 11/7/06, John McGregor wrote: > > Much has been made here and elsewhere about the doomsday pact that > Novell made with Microsoft and how it bodes evil for Linux in general. > However, I have the gut feeling that Novell and only Novell found itself > in the deep shit. Today I came across this press announcement on Linux > World for Suse Enterprise Server 10 (originally publishedat > approximately the same time as Novell states the negotiations with > Microsoft began). Here is a selected quote form the article that is > particularly telling: > > "The company also announced the Open Workspace Suite, a software package > which includes GroupWise collaboration, ZENworks and Open Enterprise > Server. Users of the Novell Open Workspace Suite can deploy either > Windows XP or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on their workstations or > laptops.' > > My bet is that this goes way beyond Samba and getting it to work > required that Novell go wading in the Microsoft minefield. In the > process, Novell gave Baldy, whose favourite hobby is spewing > vituperative fud, enough ammunition to keep him happy for a long time. > For the rest of us, simply avoiding Novell's solution (like the plague > it is) will keep us well away from Microsoft's designs. As any SCO product has been ignored since The SCO Group launched their ill-fated lawsuit against IBM (and others), so will SuSE now be ignored. It will be interesting to see how the stats on distrowatch.com stack up on that distro. Of course, it won't be ignored by everyone, and probably not by big Microsoft customers who want a Linux distro, but certainly it will be by the hobbyists, who have so many options to choose from. Microsoft's strategy of threatening lawsuits might have worked four years ago, but with the SCO/IBM case winding down, I believe that Microsoft is going to have a tough slog of it. The best that they can hope for is that some ridiculously obvious software patents are found in either GNU or in the kernel. Two things will happen: everyone who is using GNU/Linux will communicate their displeasure with Microsoft, and the Mother of all hackathons will take place to replace the offending code. It may not be easy sailing by any means, but I really don't think Microsoft still has the leverage to do any real damage to those who use GNU/Linux. And the best result would be that any suit that Microsoft launches will prompt the USPTO to get their act together and be made to realize that it's ridiculous to patent something like FAT, how to make a cursor by inverting the image at a particular screen location, or one-click shopping (the Amazon patent). -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 21:55:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:55:43 +0000 Subject: Best Laptop for Linux In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611071320j59c8a966na5ed90f9abf0ac62-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611061419j25576646s80a9eaa0f8ea17ee@mail.gmail.com> <20061107205142.GY8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420611071320j59c8a966na5ed90f9abf0ac62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/7/06, Ian Petersen wrote: > Gentoo will be an improvement only because I already feel comfortable > administering a Gentoo system whereas Ubuntu is sufficiently different > that I am uncomfortable in that environment. I'm sure, given enough > time, I could extend my Gentoo-specific knowledge to Ubuntu, but I > bought the new laptop to save me time (the old one was too slow...) > and the tech support that I paid for didn't come to my rescue, thus > the disappointment. Familiarity is certainly worth something. FYI, most of the people in my department have had excellent results using Ubuntu 6.06 on IBM/Lenovo X60s laptops, despite not having much actual Ubuntu experience. The only thing that has proven troublesome is setting up certificate-based wireless access. And that comes as no surprise; I am not aware that it's working readily on *any* flavour of Linux. And we've had an easy workaround; there is a VPN client compatible with our Cisco VPN routers that is very readily configured. There is an attendant modicum of "inherited familiarity" in that I run Debian on my desktops, and Ubuntu uses the same packaging. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/debian.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 22:35:27 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:35:27 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/06, Alex Beamish wrote: ... > And the best result would be that any suit that Microsoft launches will > prompt the USPTO to get their act together and be made to realize that it's > ridiculous to patent something like FAT, how to make a cursor by inverting > the image at a particular screen location, or one-click shopping (the Amazon > patent). I've been wondering if the OEM copies of Windows which MS thrusts on everyone with their machines gives everyone rights to use just about any patented methods MS could think up. I can use FAT through Windows. The copyright and the patent aren't linked, so I should be able to use the FAT patent any way I want. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 7 23:13:55 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:13:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061107231355.85131.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Mike Kallies wrote: > On 11/7/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > ... > > And the best result would be that any suit that > Microsoft launches will > > prompt the USPTO to get their act together and be > made to realize that it's > > ridiculous to patent something like FAT, how to > make a cursor by inverting > > the image at a particular screen location, or > one-click shopping (the Amazon > > patent). > > I've been wondering if the OEM copies of Windows > which MS thrusts on > everyone with their machines gives everyone rights > to use just about > any patented methods MS could think up. Well, as software can NOT be patented in Canada this (at least for NOW) is a non-issue here in Canada. As for the U.S. situation, we can start with the folks who (like me) roll their own "white box" no-name PC clones, and who did NOT get Windows included with their PCs (I did buy a copy of Windows 98 when it was new, and I did get a free copy of Windows Server 2003 at a Microsoft sponsored event last year (good food, lousy sales pitch :-) )). Still, I have fewer copies of Windows than I have PCs (not an issue given that most of my computers do not (or in the case of my Sun Sparc box can not) run MS Windows). Beyond that ownership of a product from company X does not give you the right to infringe on patent Y. For example, the fact that you may own an IBM keyboard does NOT mean you can legally use an IBM patent for say a milling machine without first clearing it with IBM (and making some sort of licence deal). So, assuming Microsoft were saints (and we know they are in reality ANYTHING but) everything they sold would be: - Covered by patents held by Microsoft - Covered by patents held by someone else, but with whom Microsoft had worked out some sort of licence deal. - Covered by patents which have expired and are now in the public domain. > I can use FAT through Windows. The copyright and > the patent aren't > linked, so I should be able to use the FAT patent > any way I want. > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 01:17:15 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 01:17:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft-Novell deal spells death knell for Open Source? References: <20061107015636.96663.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor writes: > For those with a warped sense of humour IT World > Canada has a story that almost sounds like it was > created by someone on ... recreational > non-prescription pharmaceutical drugs titles > "Microsoft-Novell deal spells death knell for Open > Source?" imho such articles reflect the OSS's enemies wet dreams. They probably publish them as paid articles from time to time in order to keep their morale high. The 'death knell' of open source and other grass roots movements has been trumpeted since day one by many detractors. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 01:45:37 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:45:37 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> I am submitting patents now, I know something about the system, and have seen the pathetic things that have been patented, but in working with the lawyers, i got my education. First of all you can patent just about anything, i think there is an example of a dog bone going in recently. Patent just puts a time stamp on you, thats all, and it is only useful for a challenge, 99% of all patents are null and void, and probably most of MS , Novell and IBMs are. It's the cost to defend, or to, challenge them thats the killer. Keep in mind, if you propose a "problem" to which your patent is the sol'n, to a group of professionals in that area of the art, if they are told the problem, and in say 6 hours, come up with the sol'n, which is your patent, and you could do this twice, or 2 times out of 5, or whatever, the patent would be null, as you can't patent something that professionals in a small amount of time, solve. USPTO isn't the problem, they can't expect to truely be experts on everything, the problem is, its so dam costly to defend, and the system just doesn't work right. Its slow, the patent attack can be in courts for years, while your product suffers, etc. Another thing I learnt which was interesting is in the US, you don't need to even register a patent to protect your shit. If you have 100% proof you had this thing, say you actually manufactured something you had the idea for (company A), and that proves you in fact knew the technology at time X and someone else comes along (company B) at time Y (1 year after time X) and officially submits a patent. Company B can't challenge company A (at least not sucessfully) and company A can actually file the patent that over rides company B's. Personally, I want there to be a patent war, as it might take 3-4 years for some of the first ones, but it will become apparent that most of the stuff is just crap. I very much support patents and software patents, you have to be one dumb ass communist bastard not too, but they are given out to lightly and used as such a nasty tool in business extortion. -tl On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 17:35 -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 11/7/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > ... > > And the best result would be that any suit that Microsoft launches will > > prompt the USPTO to get their act together and be made to realize that it's > > ridiculous to patent something like FAT, how to make a cursor by inverting > > the image at a particular screen location, or one-click shopping (the Amazon > > patent). > > I've been wondering if the OEM copies of Windows which MS thrusts on > everyone with their machines gives everyone rights to use just about > any patented methods MS could think up. > > I can use FAT through Windows. The copyright and the patent aren't > linked, so I should be able to use the FAT patent any way I want. > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 01:45:17 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 01:45:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Logins References: <80odrkv9he.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: Check the permissions on the tty devices and the relevant permissions on login, also /etc/login.defs @TTYPERM,TTYGROUP and /etc/securetty for any special settings. Finally it is possible to restrict multiple logins using apm modules.And there are several programs and scripts which can restrict sessions to single-login. See also man wtmp/utmp, last, w. Note that on most systems rxvt etc does not count as a 'multiple login', only tty logins do. It is dead easy to make a single-login script in Perl or just awk f.ex. using w and hook it into /etc/profile so it runs on any login. Peter (who cut his teeth with Slackware 10 years ago and fondly remembers the times) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 02:07:48 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:07:48 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <4550FD75.4070708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45513BF4.4090002@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > Much has been made here and elsewhere about the doomsday pact that > Novell made with Microsoft and how it bodes evil for Linux in general. > However, I have the gut feeling that Novell and only Novell found itself > in the deep shit. Today I came across this press announcement on Linux > World for Suse Enterprise Server 10 (originally publishedat > approximately the same time as Novell states the negotiations with > Microsoft began). Here is a selected quote form the article that is > particularly telling: > > "The company also announced the Open Workspace Suite, a software package > which includes GroupWise collaboration, ZENworks and Open Enterprise > Server. Users of the Novell Open Workspace Suite can deploy either > Windows XP or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on their workstations or > laptops.' > > My bet is that this goes way beyond Samba and getting it to work > required that Novell go wading in the Microsoft minefield. In the > process, Novell gave Baldy, whose favourite hobby is spewing > vituperative fud, enough ammunition to keep him happy for a long time. > For the rest of us, simply avoiding Novell's solution (like the plague > it is) will keep us well away from Microsoft's designs. > > The full article can be found here: > http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/032006-novell-suse-linux.html While I have also been concerned, one thing I've noticed is that MS is paying Novell far more than Novell is paying MS. Novell is not paying for patents. It is paying for a protection rac^H^H^H^H^H^H an agreement not to be sued, should any MS patents be violated. The agreement also covers making some things work better with Windows etc. My read of the various articles shows that it's not the doomsday scenario many make it out to be, though I'm still suspicious of MS. It also appears that this was started just before Bill Gates announced his planned retirement. Any connection? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 02:16:30 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:16:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061107204235.GW8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107204235.GW8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061108021631.41042.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 12:17:15PM -0500, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > Bottom line is your machine will not run Quake 4 > in a > > playable fashion. Your CPU is more than fast > enough, > > you have enough RAM, the problem is your video > card. I > > started by attempting to play Quake 4 on a machine > > with an nVidia GeForce FX 5500, and the screen was > > jerky and the game was basicly unplayable. A shift > to > > a GeForce 6200 and the game became quite playable > > (though NOT at the higher screen resolutions). The > > NVidia GeForce 4 as I understand it are not quite > as > > good as the GeForce FX 5500. Now I paid about $60 > for > > a GeForce 6200 card, so you are not talking big > money > > to make your machine able to play Quake 4, but you > > will need the hardware upgrade. > > Hmm, I would have thought a 6200 was pathetic at > everything, and a 5500 > was workable. Looking at the specs though, the 6200 > is actually > slightly better than a 5500 in every way, and has 3 > times the VPUs > available. That should certainly make shader code > happier. Yes, something I was carefull to check on. When I realised that the 5500 would not cut it with Quake 4 I asked the question "What is the cheapest video card that can support "Quake 4"?". A bit of research, asking around and I had my answer, the 6200. One nice point about the version of the 6200 that I have over the 5500 that I have is that the 6200 does NOT have a fan (the value of this being that at some point I expect I will use the 6200 in a MythTV box, where you want QUIET). > All I know is, that my 6600GT was a major > improvement over my TNT2. :) That would have been a night vs. day difference, I trust you are enjoying (and I trust you have some software, like say Quake 4 that can actually push that video card :-) ). > -- > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 02:21:24 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 02:21:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Microsoft/Novell Partnership References: <7ac602420611030921p5099da8ay43be789ca3f4fe1c@mail.gmail.com> <20061103183323.23080.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <7ac602420611031051nfc9fa46p163f534dfdc895b4@mail.gmail.com> <20061104051154.GA29541@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061105060541.GA1954@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061106061453.GA3413@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20061107073824.GA8363@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: John Macdonald writes: > > Yes but if the company is in the US and the user is elsewhere and the > > disputed patent is a software patent, then no injunction can be sent, no ? > > That's fine for you for the moment, but if a company wants to > make some money using Open Source, the U.S. is a huge chunk of > their potential market. Cutting out the U.S. removes a lot > of the profitability potential - which reduces the number of > businesses that are funding developers, etc. Nobody cuts out the US. The way I see it, if there is a patent on a method in the US then that is THE method to be used for that purpose in said country. The issue of circumventing a patent by writing code around it is sort of defeating the purpose. The purpose of the protectionism is to promote local industry. In fact, the differences in the US patent systems appeared when congress mandated the USPTO to make changes in its patent application process to promote US industry and business by easing the patenting process (and thus dropping some tests). And it did just that (successfully, from their point of view, but not from everyone else's imho). As a developer, one uses said patented technologies inside the US and pays royalties, passing the cost on to users. And telling them why. Protectionism is not a technology or engineering issue, whether it's about soft lumber, electricity, water, or software patents (or passports at the border and biometric id requirements), it is a political issue that must be resolved by voters at the polls and legislators imho. In other words, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, but when not, then don't if you don't like it. > Microsoft is not concerned about whether you can get free > software in Canada at the moment, just in drying up the most > profitable chunk of the market for the long term. Microsoft is not the problem, the different legal system is. Microsoft and other companies just use the system as good as they can. There is no point in accusing them of this. The point is to see what makes this possible there, and impossible elsewhere. > There is no value in the after-market if your customers can > be sued for getting into the market in the first place. The idea of being able to sue someone for damages for something that he has obtained through legal channels in good faith is somewhat alien to me, it is in the same class as Sippenhaft is. At worst there can be an injunction on the resale of the product (or if it is physical it could be confiscated and destroyed, see under counterfeit goods). But you can't take a pair of suspected counterfeit jeans off of someone on the street and just burn them (the jeans) because one party claims they are counterfeit and convinced a judge about it, and you can't stop people from travelling abroad to buy said jeans and come back wearing them. Just as an example. > As a vendor, if you're going to make money in the U.S., you > have to have a version that won't be stripped from your shelves > with a court order. If you're going to make money anywhere > else, you have to have a version that is not crippled. So, > you either have two versions, or choose which market you are > going to limit yourself to. Yes but the choice was made by the US legislators when they decided to have a system that is different from everywhere else's, at the instigation of powerful local industry lobbies. So the choice was already made for one. As a vendor, the only choice you can make is whether to do business there or not. > As a developer, there are still the same two markets. The Linux > development team is not going to make a non-U.S. only version of > the kernel, nor would they want to just throw away functionality > that is useful everywhere else in the world. Of course not. But when they have to, then they do just that. Recently there were problems with Linux BIOS not being available outside the US and patents on RTLinux extensions. And this is neither the first nor the last time. Again, this is not a technology question, it is a nation-wide problem that also spans telecom, electronics and brand and trademark names. Even books are affected. The only way to solve it is at the polls. > > As to who fights whom, I think that in a democracy there should be three or > That's where the largest amount of money is. Which just drives > the argument that you can't just ignore the U.S. market. Nobody ignores the US, it's just that it's a 'different' place to work with. You know, they have been inching their way towards the metric system, and all that. And I think that finding strange ways to circumvent patents for the purpose of avoiding what has been placed there (protectionism) to fleece the customers better is a hack, just like US pensioners buying prescription drugs in Canadian pharmacies until their state legislated that the Canadian drugs were 'unsafe' (but especially cheaper than local ones), and stopped that (I shudder whenever I remember a certain text from the US referring to sick people who need to buy medicine and long term care to stay alive as 'health customers'). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 02:31:00 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:31:00 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <45513BF4.4090002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <45513BF4.4090002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1162953060.4285.85.camel@stan64.site> On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 21:07 -0500, James Knott wrote: > John McGregor wrote: > > Much has been made here and elsewhere about the doomsday pact that > > Novell made with Microsoft and how it bodes evil for Linux in general. > > However, I have the gut feeling that Novell and only Novell found itself > > in the deep shit. Today I came across this press announcement on Linux > > World for Suse Enterprise Server 10 (originally publishedat > > approximately the same time as Novell states the negotiations with > > Microsoft began). Here is a selected quote form the article that is > > particularly telling: > > > > "The company also announced the Open Workspace Suite, a software package > > which includes GroupWise collaboration, ZENworks and Open Enterprise > > Server. Users of the Novell Open Workspace Suite can deploy either > > Windows XP or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on their workstations or > > laptops.' > > > > My bet is that this goes way beyond Samba and getting it to work > > required that Novell go wading in the Microsoft minefield. In the > > process, Novell gave Baldy, whose favourite hobby is spewing > > vituperative fud, enough ammunition to keep him happy for a long time. > > For the rest of us, simply avoiding Novell's solution (like the plague > > it is) will keep us well away from Microsoft's designs. > > > > The full article can be found here: > > http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/032006-novell-suse-linux.html > > While I have also been concerned, one thing I've noticed is that MS is > paying Novell far more than Novell is paying MS. Novell is not paying > for patents. It is paying for a protection rac^H^H^H^H^H^H an agreement > not to be sued, should any MS patents be violated. The agreement also > covers making some things work better with Windows etc. My read of the > various articles shows that it's not the doomsday scenario many make it I agree . no doomsday, in fact i think MS believes in trend analysis/extrapolation, and it sees the end is destine so it A) hopes Vista and MS-Cluster, etc saves them, and changes the trend, B) is taking steps (you ready for this, you heard it here first :) ) to being a full linux disto, contributer, may be hijacker, in 6 years, as they believe its better to sell Linux (support for, and addons) to a huge customer base that is already pablum feed by them, then to die with Vista, and whatever is next. Much easier to stay rich selling Linux for 150$ (with some windows media shit), and join sell to MS-office , etc then to sell 199$ MS O/S to far far less people. MS is just ramping up to be the largest Linux retailer there is, and when I get a free minute, I'll have to ask myself what I and the community will think about this when it happens, on one hand, Linux won, on the other hand MS still has a relatively high market cap, and proves yet again, crime does pay. I can see the tag line now: "Microsoft Linux 2012 - setting a new standard for performance and reliability" -tl > out to be, though I'm still suspicious of MS. It also appears that this > was started just before Bill Gates announced his planned retirement. > Any connection? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 02:43:38 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:43:38 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <4550BBA6.5090203-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:00:22 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > Any chance that would run on a P4 2.6, 512 DDR, w/ NVidia GeForce 4 Ti? > > > > Doom 3 is a stretch... :-\ > > > > I've run it on less. Nothing like running it at 1280x1024 natively though :p Well, from the sounds of it, an upgrade is in order. I'm currently fighting to get HL2 to work with..well...anything (latest Wine, Cedega, cvscedega, etc.), and I think the problem is my card. Quake 4 would be a good excuse to upgrade the card anyway, regardless of whether it solves my HL2 issues ($%@#$@#$ Steam!!! Man that's a pain in the arse...). Thanks for the replies, $60 doesn't sound like a whole lot to get that much more performance. When I first got my GF4 Ti, it was $350! :-\ -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Zapp: Now that's a wave of destruction that's easy on the eyes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 03:59:35 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:59:35 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1162953060.4285.85.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <45513BF4.4090002@rogers.com> <1162953060.4285.85.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: Haha, nice fantasy (I find it to be rather unpleasant nonetheless ), but Steve Ballmer seems to have made it pretty clear that the deal was just an excuse to spread legal FUD about usage of Linux, if you ask me.. On 11/7/06, ted leslie wrote: > I agree . no doomsday, in fact i think MS believes in trend > analysis/extrapolation, and it sees the end is destine so it > A) hopes Vista and MS-Cluster, etc saves them, and changes the trend, > B) is taking steps (you ready for this, you heard it here first :) ) > to being a full linux disto, contributer, may be hijacker, > in 6 years, as they believe its better to sell Linux (support for, and > addons) to a huge customer base that is already pablum feed by them, > then to die with Vista, and whatever is next. Much easier to stay rich > selling Linux for 150$ (with some windows media shit), and join sell to > MS-office , etc then to sell 199$ MS O/S to far far less people. > MS is just ramping up to be the largest Linux retailer there is, > and when I get a free minute, I'll have to ask myself what I and the > community will think about this when it happens, on one hand, Linux won, > on the other hand MS still has a relatively high market cap, and proves > yet again, crime does pay. I can see the tag line now: > > "Microsoft Linux 2012 - setting a new standard for performance and > reliability" > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 04:50:28 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061107214338.0eec2083-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:00:22 -0500 > Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >>> Any chance that would run on a P4 2.6, 512 DDR, w/ NVidia GeForce 4 Ti? >>> >>> Doom 3 is a stretch... :-\ >>> >> I've run it on less. Nothing like running it at 1280x1024 natively though :p > > Well, from the sounds of it, an upgrade is in order. I'm currently fighting to > get HL2 to work with..well...anything (latest Wine, Cedega, cvscedega, etc.), > and I think the problem is my card. Quake 4 would be a good excuse to upgrade > the card anyway, regardless of whether it solves my HL2 issues ($%@#$@#$ > Steam!!! Man that's a pain in the arse...). > > Thanks for the replies, $60 doesn't sound like a whole lot to get that much > more performance. > > When I first got my GF4 Ti, it was $350! :-\ > Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then locks up hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. I waited on my old Ti4200 until it was down to $250, and quite a deal it was. Got a friend with a 6600 GT who is moving to Dominican Republic in a week or two, he's parting out his system. He paid $150 for it I think, likely will want less than $100 if you are interested. Worth the upgrade for sure, esp. for the price. AGP right? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 11:29:27 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:29:27 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1162953060.4285.85.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <45513BF4.4090002@rogers.com> <1162953060.4285.85.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1e55af990611080329l3865eeb1ld22d0967e08120d0@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/06, ted leslie wrote: > "Microsoft Linux 2012 - setting a new standard for performance and > reliability" I doubt it. With the special licensing fees for virtualized windows and other legal considerations, it sounds like Microsoft is setting things up so that cross-platform development can borrow a bit of the muscle from open source development and make it applicable to Windows or a virtualized Windows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 12:09:49 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:09:49 -0500 Subject: New-to-ubuntu Workshop @ linuxcaffe Message-ID: This coming Remembrance Day, Saturday (Nov 11th) from 5pm till 7pm, the ubuntu-ca user group will be offering a workshop for those new to ubuntu (say it with me now; "new to ubuntu") Dave Sanderson will install ubuntu 6.10 on a laptop, demonstrate some of the myriad features, and discuss the wildly popular OS from a new users perspective. Seating is limited to 16 people, so if you'd like to attend, hit the linuxcaffe.ca website and a) use the sign up dialog, b) leave a comment with your desire to attend, or c) email me off-list. thanks, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 12:57:14 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:57:14 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells Message-ID: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am trying to add line-wrapping to my program and to this end I am trying to figure out the different ways of getting the current number of columns from the different shells. I am hoping you guys who use shells other than bash or sh might be able to help me build a list. For 'bash' and 'sh', I know this works: $ echo $COLUMNS For 'csh' and 'tsch', I *thought* it was the same, and the man page seems to agree, but I only get an error: > echo $COLUMNS COLUMNS: Undefined variable. Beyond these four, I am not even really sure what shells are in common use, so feedback on that would be helpful, too. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 14:22:56 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 09:22:56 -0500 Subject: GPL question Message-ID: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> Hi all, question #2 for the morning! If I am the author of code which I wrote for a GPL'ed project, and at work I want to re-use some of that code in a proprietary project I am working on, can I authorize the use of that code in the commercial program? If so, what do I need to do to indicate in the future that the code was authorized by the author for use in that commercial product? Thanks all, and I know you guys aren't lawyers, so I am just looking for laypeople's advice. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 14:32:30 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:32:30 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <4551E840.6040206-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420611080632i63aa6574gd127e1bd496bbb1f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Madi, My understanding is that copyright holders have full authority to license their copyrighted works as they see fit. If that's true, then it means you can authorize anyone to do anything with your code, so long as you're the only contributor. If there are other contributors, you'd need to get their permission to do anything that contravenes the GPL. Of course, the best way to get a reliable answer is to talk to a lawyer. I think lawyers will usually give you a short period of time for free, such as 30 minutes or an hour. Since you really only have one question, you might be able to get it answered during this pro bono period. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 14:49:28 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 09:49:28 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0611080632v65dbaa61y525fa663237edf18-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> <5bef4baf0611080632v65dbaa61y525fa663237edf18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4551EE78.7070706@alteeve.com> Richard Dice wrote: > Madison, > > If you are the author of the code, you can license it under the GPL but > also you can use it and also license it under different terms as well, > i.e. use within a proprietary project which you then license out as > proprietary. Mysql and TrollTech are both companies that use this > business model. > > Of course, the term "you are the owner" is something you need to look > at, as you said this is stuff that you did for work. So are you the > owner, or is your company? You can't license under any terms (GPL, > proprietary, etc.) anything that is actually owned by your employer. > > Another thing -- if your GPL version of the code lead to people giving > you back code contributions, you may not include these in the > proprietary version unless they have signed their copyright in those > contributions over to you. > > Cheers, > Richard Thanks for the answer! In this case, the code in question is a small subroutine I (fully) wrote for my GPL'ed project first. Now I want to use that subroutine in a commercial program at work. I realize that I can't use code I wrote for my employer in my GPL'ed project. Likewise I can't use code contributed to my project by others under the GPL (or similar licenses) without their express, written permission (not that I would ask for it, out of principle). The main reason I am asking is that I have written a few small, general purpose subroutines that would make my work-life easier if I could use them in the commercial program I work on. Nothing fancy (in this specific case, a subroutine that takes a size (like '150M') and converts it to the number of bytes; nothing fancy, just convenient. :) My concern is more along the lines of: a) How do I make sure someone else down the road might recognize the code as being from a GPL'ed project and know that it wasn't used illegally. b) Prevent some possible future owner of this commercial product from seeing the code in my GPL'ed project and know that it was *from* the GPL project, and not illegally taken from the commercial product. c) Breaking the law in the first place and possibly invalidating the GPL license on my program or the commercial program I work on. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:15:21 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:15:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611080632i63aa6574gd127e1bd496bbb1f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420611080632i63aa6574gd127e1bd496bbb1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061108151521.45003.qmail@web61316.mail.yahoo.com> I see that self contradictory. On one of the term of the GPL is that one can not take away the right of the user on derivative works as well. I think as a copyright owner you have the right to license it under different liceses, eg. creative commons license. But I am not sure if you can license the same work under contradictory license agreements and which will take effect if and when a dispute arise. cheerio, EK Ian Petersen wrote: Hi Madi, My understanding is that copyright holders have full authority to license their copyrighted works as they see fit. If that's true, then it means you can authorize anyone to do anything with your code, so long as you're the only contributor. If there are other contributors, you'd need to get their permission to do anything that contravenes the GPL. Of course, the best way to get a reliable answer is to talk to a lawyer. I think lawyers will usually give you a short period of time for free, such as 30 minutes or an hour. Since you really only have one question, you might be able to get it answered during this pro bono period. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:22:08 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:22:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <20061108151521.45003.qmail-ddJm7Vz9uCWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061108151521.45003.qmail@web61316.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, E K wrote: > I see that self contradictory. On one of the term of the GPL is that one > can not take away the right of the user on derivative works as well. I think > as a copyright owner you have the right to license it under different > liceses, eg. creative commons license. But I am not sure if you can license > the same work under contradictory license agreements and which will take > effect if and when a dispute arise. Trolltech does that with their licensing for Qt -- you can get the Open Source version and be bound by the GPL, or you can buy a commercial version. See www.trolltech.com . JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:10:11 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:10:11 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <4551EE78.7070706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> <5bef4baf0611080632v65dbaa61y525fa663237edf18@mail.gmail.com> <4551EE78.7070706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200611081010.11533.ican@netrover.com> Check out the SIMPL project (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl). A SIMPL process is time honored way to encapsulate complexity behind a straightforward messaging (QNX style) interface. (although you may not view your byte converter routine as "complex"). You maybe able to utilize SIMPL messaging to isolate your GPL'd code from your company owned code in two separate cooperating processes. bob On Wednesday 08 November 2006 09:49 am, Madison Kelly wrote: > Richard Dice wrote: > > Madison, > > > > If you are the author of the code, you can license it under the GPL but > > also you can use it and also license it under different terms as well, > > i.e. use within a proprietary project which you then license out as > > proprietary. Mysql and TrollTech are both companies that use this > > business model. > > > > Of course, the term "you are the owner" is something you need to look > > at, as you said this is stuff that you did for work. So are you the > > owner, or is your company? You can't license under any terms (GPL, > > proprietary, etc.) anything that is actually owned by your employer. > > > > Another thing -- if your GPL version of the code lead to people giving > > you back code contributions, you may not include these in the > > proprietary version unless they have signed their copyright in those > > contributions over to you. > > > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Thanks for the answer! > > In this case, the code in question is a small subroutine I (fully) wrote > for my GPL'ed project first. Now I want to use that subroutine in a > commercial program at work. > > I realize that I can't use code I wrote for my employer in my GPL'ed > project. Likewise I can't use code contributed to my project by others > under the GPL (or similar licenses) without their express, written > permission (not that I would ask for it, out of principle). > > The main reason I am asking is that I have written a few small, general > purpose subroutines that would make my work-life easier if I could use > them in the commercial program I work on. Nothing fancy (in this > specific case, a subroutine that takes a size (like '150M') and converts > it to the number of bytes; nothing fancy, just convenient. :) > > My concern is more along the lines of: > > a) How do I make sure someone else down the road might recognize the > code as being from a GPL'ed project and know that it wasn't used illegally. > > b) Prevent some possible future owner of this commercial product from > seeing the code in my GPL'ed project and know that it was *from* the GPL > project, and not illegally taken from the commercial product. > > c) Breaking the law in the first place and possibly invalidating the > GPL license on my program or the commercial program I work on. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:37:12 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:37:12 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <4551D42A.7070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1163000232.11897.3.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> > I am trying to add line-wrapping to my program and to this end I am > trying to figure out the different ways of getting the current number of > columns from the different shells. I am hoping you guys who use shells > other than bash or sh might be able to help me build a list. Does 'tput cols' work for your application? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:46:50 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:46:50 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <1163000232.11897.3.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> <1163000232.11897.3.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <4551FBEA.4090802@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: >> I am trying to add line-wrapping to my program and to this end I am >> trying to figure out the different ways of getting the current number of >> columns from the different shells. I am hoping you guys who use shells >> other than bash or sh might be able to help me build a list. > > Does 'tput cols' work for your application? > See, this is why I love TLUG. :) That works perfectly, thank you! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 15:57:10 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:57:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <4551D42A.7070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to add line-wrapping to my program and to this end I am trying > to figure out the different ways of getting the current number of columns > from the different shells. I am hoping you guys who use shells other than > bash or sh might be able to help me build a list. > > For 'bash' and 'sh', On a Linux system, sh IS bash. There are some small (in size) distros where another shell is used. Are you writing only for Linux? > I know this works: > $ echo $COLUMNS It may work, but it may be wrong. If the window is resized, the variable will not be updated if the shell is not in control (i.e., if another program is running). > For 'csh' and 'tsch', On a Linux system, csh and tcsh are the same shell. > I *thought* it was the same, and the man page seems to > agree, but I only get an error: > >> echo $COLUMNS > COLUMNS: Undefined variable. If they are set, the shell will update them when the window is resized. > Beyond these four, I am not even really sure what shells are in common use, > so feedback on that would be helpful, too. ksh, [d]ash, zsh. However, that is the wrong way to go about it. You need to get the result independently of the shell. There are three commands that may give you the information. They are not standardized: tput cols stty size resize You might be better off looking at the source code for one or more of those commands and using the underlying system functions. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 17:06:11 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:06:11 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 Message-ID: <45520E83.4000506@alteeve.com> Ok, at some point today FC could see the Ubuntu printer. Unfortunatly, I have since lost it. Here are the presumably relevent bits from the cups files on the Ubuntu machine. /etc/cups/cupsd.conf # Restrict access to the server... Order Deny,Allow Deny From All Allow localhost Allow @LOCAL Allow From 192.168.5.* /etc/cups/cups.d/ports.conf #Listen localhost:631 Port 631 Listen /var/run/cups/cups.sock I have also added a line in /etc/hosts on the FC machine pointing to the Ubuntu machine. Any help appreciated. Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 17:37:15 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:37:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45520E83.4000506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45520E83.4000506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061108173715.83258.qmail@web61317.mail.yahoo.com> Why do you have deny from all That makes the service unavailable from anywhere. EK "Lance F. Squire" wrote: Ok, at some point today FC could see the Ubuntu printer. Unfortunatly, I have since lost it. Here are the presumably relevent bits from the cups files on the Ubuntu machine. /etc/cups/cupsd.conf # Restrict access to the server... Order Deny,Allow Deny From All Allow localhost Allow @LOCAL Allow From 192.168.5.* /etc/cups/cups.d/ports.conf #Listen localhost:631 Port 631 Listen /var/run/cups/cups.sock I have also added a line in /etc/hosts on the FC machine pointing to the Ubuntu machine. Any help appreciated. Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 17:44:40 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:44:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061108174440.88690.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> But then that particular work must be covered under different license. What is more interesting, though, is whether Trolltech can sue someone for using the GPL released one, as SCO did and Novell/MS partnership is implicating/threatening? EK John Vetterli wrote: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, E K wrote: > I see that self contradictory. On one of the term of the GPL is that one > can not take away the right of the user on derivative works as well. I think > as a copyright owner you have the right to license it under different > liceses, eg. creative commons license. But I am not sure if you can license > the same work under contradictory license agreements and which will take > effect if and when a dispute arise. Trolltech does that with their licensing for Qt -- you can get the Open Source version and be bound by the GPL, or you can buy a commercial version. See www.trolltech.com . JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 17:50:41 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:50:41 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On that note, maybe you can learn from the source code of a text editor like nano or vim. On 11/8/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > You might be better off looking at the source code for one or more > of those commands and using the underlying system functions. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 17:47:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:47:49 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <200611081010.11533.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> <5bef4baf0611080632v65dbaa61y525fa663237edf18@mail.gmail.com> <4551EE78.7070706@alteeve.com> <200611081010.11533.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: This would apply if he was trying to mix GPL and proprietary code, but that isn't the case. As far as I know, you would make it clear that it's ok by clearly marking in the source file that the copyright for the code in question belongs to you, and is licensed for use in the proprietary software you're embedding it in. That way someone can see in both the GPL code and the proprietary code (or not, since it's closed source) that you hold the copyright, and that in either case it is being used under a license. Another subtle example of multi licensed code is in something like Windows, where the same cade can be reused in different products, like different editions of XP or Vista, with different licensing terms. So yes, as long as you hold the copyright, you can do this. If your employer insists that they own the copyright on any code you give them, you won't be able to do this without sorting that out. A sufficiently permissive license should be enough for them though. Simon On 11/8/06, bob wrote: > Check out the SIMPL project (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl). > > A SIMPL process is time honored way to encapsulate complexity behind a > straightforward messaging (QNX style) interface. (although you may not view > your byte converter routine as "complex"). > > You maybe able to utilize SIMPL messaging to isolate your GPL'd code from your > company owned code in two separate cooperating processes. > > bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 18:15:49 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:15:49 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <20061108173715.83258.qmail-AouFGu99mLOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061108173715.83258.qmail@web61317.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45521ED5.7040104@alteeve.com> E K wrote: > Why do you have > deny from all > > That makes the service unavailable from anywhere. > > EK > Because everything I can find says thats the way its suposed to be. Removing it had no effect. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 19:54:55 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:54:55 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1162950337.4285.71.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611081154i640d3e1bn8cbaa4212129c290@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/06, ted leslie wrote: > I am submitting patents now, I know something about the system, and have > seen the pathetic things that have been patented, but in working with > the lawyers, i got my education. I haven't much of an education in Patents per se, but... [...] > I very much support patents and software patents, you have to be one > dumb ass communist bastard not too, but they are given out to lightly > and used as such a nasty tool in business extortion. I am no dumb-ass communist bastard. I agree with many of the comments/concerns you've expressed in the past year or so, but this one I can't. I can accept patents on physical systems/devices, but Software Patents I have a very difficult time with as a developer. The project I'm working on is a web-based OS (like-thingy) - with a significant emphasis on learning/teaching CompSci fundamentals. If the project ever gets big enough to attract serious attention, what kind of danger am I/we ("the developers") in as a result of the patents that M$ and other "Software Manufacturers" have applied for? Why the (BLEEP) should fundamental algorythms be pattentable? The only answer I have has been iterated by many others -- to stifle innovation and competition. IMO Software Patents are exceedingly dangerous. (PS - Colin, My understanding is that CIPO has been awarding Software Patents in Canada for a while now. IANAL and all that, but other Canadian FLOSS-friendly communities have been having intermittent conversations about this for some time - ie on the CLUE and Digital Copyright Canada mailing lists.) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:06:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:06:23 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <4551D42A.7070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061108200623.GZ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 07:57:14AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to add line-wrapping to my program and to this end I am > trying to figure out the different ways of getting the current number of > columns from the different shells. I am hoping you guys who use shells > other than bash or sh might be able to help me build a list. > > For 'bash' and 'sh', I know this works: > $ echo $COLUMNS > > For 'csh' and 'tsch', I *thought* it was the same, and the man page > seems to agree, but I only get an error: > > > echo $COLUMNS > COLUMNS: Undefined variable. > > Beyond these four, I am not even really sure what shells are in common > use, so feedback on that would be helpful, too. Don't ask the shell. It has no clue. You ask the terminal. That is why most programs that care about placement of things on the screen use curses to handle talking to different terminal types. As someone suggested, tput may help, since it is a curses based utility for asking the terminal that kind of thing. Of course it may change while your program is running, which is something else curses supports dealing with on the fly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:10:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:10:03 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <20061108174440.88690.qmail-inj+/bcMcZ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061108174440.88690.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061108201003.GA8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 12:44:40PM -0500, E K wrote: > But then that particular work must be covered under different license. What is more interesting, though, is whether Trolltech can sue someone for using the GPL released one, as SCO did and Novell/MS partnership is implicating/threatening? Well you can either follow the license of the GPL version, which means your code has to be under a GPL compatible license, or you can pay trolltech money to have the code under a different license that lets you do something else. No conflict there. Perfectly simple. You can have the copryright allowances provided under the GPL by following the requirements of the GPL, or you can have more rights than that by paying money to get the copyright allowances under the commercial license. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:12:55 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:12:55 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <4551EE78.7070706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551E840.6040206@alteeve.com> <5bef4baf0611080632v65dbaa61y525fa663237edf18@mail.gmail.com> <4551EE78.7070706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061108201255.GB8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 09:49:28AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks for the answer! > > In this case, the code in question is a small subroutine I (fully) wrote > for my GPL'ed project first. Now I want to use that subroutine in a > commercial program at work. > > I realize that I can't use code I wrote for my employer in my GPL'ed > project. Likewise I can't use code contributed to my project by others > under the GPL (or similar licenses) without their express, written > permission (not that I would ask for it, out of principle). > > The main reason I am asking is that I have written a few small, general > purpose subroutines that would make my work-life easier if I could use > them in the commercial program I work on. Nothing fancy (in this > specific case, a subroutine that takes a size (like '150M') and converts > it to the number of bytes; nothing fancy, just convenient. :) > > My concern is more along the lines of: > > a) How do I make sure someone else down the road might recognize the > code as being from a GPL'ed project and know that it wasn't used illegally. > > b) Prevent some possible future owner of this commercial product from > seeing the code in my GPL'ed project and know that it was *from* the GPL > project, and not illegally taken from the commercial product. > > c) Breaking the law in the first place and possibly invalidating the > GPL license on my program or the commercial program I work on. I would think you simply stick in a "This is copyright by Madison Kelly". Maybe add in a note saying that it was originally written for project foo but was reused here by Madison Kelly. Don't see how anyone can argue with that. Besides if the code is copyright by you, then the only one that can sue anyone for using it without a license is you. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:14:45 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:14:45 +0000 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <20061108200623.GZ8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> <20061108200623.GZ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <913385355-1163016950-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-148034202-@bxe047-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> VHB1dCBjb2xzIGRvZXMgZ2l2ZSBwcm9wZXIgdmFsdWVzIGV2ZW4gaWYgdGhlIHVzZXIgY2hhbmdl cyB3aW5kb3cgc2l6ZS4gSXQgc2VlbXMgcHJldHR5IHNhZmUuIA0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgQmxh Y2tCZXJyeSBkZXZpY2Ugb24gdGhlIFJvZ2VycyBXaXJlbGVzcyBOZXR3b3JrICANCg0KLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExlbm5hcnQgU29yZW5zZW4gPGxzb3JlbnNlQGNz Y2x1Yi51d2F0ZXJsb28uY2E+DQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDggTm92IDIwMDYgMTU6MDY6MjMgDQpUbzp0 bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtUTFVHXTogZ2V0dGluZyBjb2x1bW4gd2lkdGggaW4g dmFyaW91cyBzaGVsbHMNCg0KT24gV2VkLCBOb3YgMDgsIDIwMDYgYXQgMDc6NTc6MTRBTSAtMDUw MCwgTWFkaXNvbiBLZWxseSB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGkgYWxsLA0KPiANCj4gICBJIGFtIHRyeWluZyB0 byBhZGQgbGluZS13cmFwcGluZyB0byBteSBwcm9ncmFtIGFuZCB0byB0aGlzIGVuZCBJIGFtIA0K PiB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IHdheXMgb2YgZ2V0dGluZyB0aGUg Y3VycmVudCBudW1iZXIgb2YgDQo+IGNvbHVtbnMgZnJvbSB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IHNoZWxscy4g SSBhbSBob3BpbmcgeW91IGd1eXMgd2hvIHVzZSBzaGVsbHMgDQo+IG90aGVyIHRoYW4gYmFzaCBv ciBzaCBtaWdodCBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIGhlbHAgbWUgYnVpbGQgYSBsaXN0Lg0KPiANCj4gRm9yICdi YXNoJyBhbmQgJ3NoJywgSSBrbm93IHRoaXMgd29ya3M6DQo+ICQgZWNobyAkQ09MVU1OUw0KPiAN Cj4gRm9yICdjc2gnIGFuZCAndHNjaCcsIEkgKnRob3VnaHQqIGl0IHdhcyB0aGUgc2FtZSwgYW5k IHRoZSBtYW4gcGFnZSANCj4gc2VlbXMgdG8gYWdyZWUsIGJ1dCBJIG9ubHkgZ2V0IGFuIGVycm9y Og0KPiANCj4gPiBlY2hvICRDT0xVTU5TDQo+IENPTFVNTlM6IFVuZGVmaW5lZCB2YXJpYWJsZS4N Cj4gDQo+IEJleW9uZCB0aGVzZSBmb3VyLCBJIGFtIG5vdCBldmVuIHJlYWxseSBzdXJlIHdoYXQg c2hlbGxzIGFyZSBpbiBjb21tb24gDQo+IHVzZSwgc28gZmVlZGJhY2sgb24gdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBi ZSBoZWxwZnVsLCB0b28uDQoNCkRvbid0IGFzayB0aGUgc2hlbGwuICBJdCBoYXMgbm8gY2x1ZS4g IFlvdSBhc2sgdGhlIHRlcm1pbmFsLiAgVGhhdCBpcw0Kd2h5IG1vc3QgcHJvZ3JhbXMgdGhhdCBj YXJlIGFib3V0IHBsYWNlbWVudCBvZiB0aGluZ3Mgb24gdGhlIHNjcmVlbiB1c2UNCmN1cnNlcyB0 byBoYW5kbGUgdGFsa2luZyB0byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdGVybWluYWwgdHlwZXMuICBBcyBzb21lb25l DQpzdWdnZXN0ZWQsIHRwdXQgbWF5IGhlbHAsIHNpbmNlIGl0IGlzIGEgY3Vyc2VzIGJhc2VkIHV0 aWxpdHkgZm9yIGFza2luZw0KdGhlIHRlcm1pbmFsIHRoYXQga2luZCBvZiB0aGluZy4NCg0KT2Yg Y291cnNlIGl0IG1heSBjaGFuZ2Ugd2hpbGUgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtIGlzIHJ1bm5pbmcsIHdoaWNo IGlzDQpzb21ldGhpbmcgZWxzZSBjdXJzZXMgc3VwcG9ydHMgZGVhbGluZyB3aXRoIG9uIHRoZSBm bHkuDQoNCi0tDQpMZW4gU29yZW5zZW4NCi0tDQpUaGUgVG9yb250byBMaW51eCBVc2VycyBHcm91 cC4gICAgICBNZWV0aW5nczogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvDQpUTFVHIHJlcXVlc3RzOiBMaW51 eCB0b3BpY3MsIE5vIEhUTUwsIHdyYXAgdGV4dCBiZWxvdyA4MCBjb2x1bW5zDQpIb3cgdG8gVU5T VUJTQ1JJQkU6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cw0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:18:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:18:08 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <913385355-1163016950-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-148034202--Z0FncgOdl0xQ9BpSIB5JaTRi+kwx10IMT9JDOEt4azW2HaR27AbahQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> <20061108200623.GZ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <913385355-1163016950-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-148034202-@bxe047-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20061108201808.GC8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 08:14:45PM +0000, john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Tput cols does give proper values even if the user changes window size. It seems pretty safe. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network How often is the program going to ask about the size of the screen? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:20:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061108021631.41042.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061107204235.GW8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061108021631.41042.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061108202012.GD8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 09:16:30PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > That would have been a night vs. day difference, I > trust you are enjoying (and I trust you have some > software, like say Quake 4 that can actually push that > video card :-) ). Ehm, I run NWN on my athlon 700 at 1600x1200 with 4xAA. :) So yes I have an athlon 700, with 768MB ram, 400GB disk space and a BFG 6600GT OC. :) CPU speed isn't everything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:21:41 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:21:41 -0500 Subject: getting column width in various shells In-Reply-To: <20061108201808.GC8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4551D42A.7070401@alteeve.com> <20061108200623.GZ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <913385355-1163016950-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-148034202-@bxe047-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20061108201808.GC8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45523C55.6060600@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 08:14:45PM +0000, john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Tput cols does give proper values even if the user changes window size. It seems pretty safe. >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > How often is the program going to ask about the size of the screen? Only once before printing. It's for simple line-wrapping of output. I am not worried about reformatting after the print hits the screen. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 21:00:32 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:00:32 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611081154i640d3e1bn8cbaa4212129c290-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <99a6c38f0611081154i640d3e1bn8cbaa4212129c290@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1163019632.4285.122.camel@stan64.site> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 14:54 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/7/06, ted leslie wrote: > > I am submitting patents now, I know something about the system, and have > > seen the pathetic things that have been patented, but in working with > > the lawyers, i got my education. > > I haven't much of an education in Patents per se, but... > > [...] > > I very much support patents and software patents, you have to be one > > dumb ass communist bastard not too, but they are given out to lightly > > and used as such a nasty tool in business extortion. > > I am no dumb-ass communist bastard. I agree with many of the > comments/concerns you've expressed in the past year or so, but this > one I can't. > > I can accept patents on physical systems/devices, but Software Patents > I have a very difficult time with as a developer. > > The project I'm working on is a web-based OS (like-thingy) - with a > significant emphasis on learning/teaching CompSci fundamentals. If > the project ever gets big enough to attract serious attention, what > kind of danger am I/we ("the developers") in as a result of the > patents that M$ and other "Software Manufacturers" have applied for? > > Why the (BLEEP) should fundamental algorythms be pattentable? They shouldn't, but ones you devote your life to that are innovative, that would take many man months to re-create, there should be protection. As i said 99% of MS patents are pure crap, and wouldn't hold up in court (if) you had the $$$$ to prove it was straight forward engineering by professionals in the area of the art. Nothing that is quick straight forward engineering should be patentable. But the Patent office can't be expected to dive in deep on each submission, when i submitted mine, they did a key word search, a brief read, and gave me 12 "hits" and said to me "you give us a write up on each of these 12 and why you are not in conflict with them", and one of them was MS, basically a MS patent for a super version of Apple's Garage Band, The MS patent was larger then the other 11 put together. It doesn't apply to mine, I know that, but I have to understand their shit, to be able to defend mine :( -tl > > The only answer I have has been iterated by many others -- to stifle > innovation and competition. > > IMO Software Patents are exceedingly dangerous. > > (PS - Colin, My understanding is that CIPO has been awarding Software > Patents in Canada for a while now. IANAL and all that, but other > Canadian FLOSS-friendly communities have been having intermittent > conversations about this for some time - ie on the CLUE and Digital > Copyright Canada mailing lists.) > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:56:54 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:56:54 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <20061108201003.GA8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061108174440.88690.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> <20061108201003.GA8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Indeed, when you receive a chunk of code under one license, it doesn't concern you that the code has been used elsewhere under a different license, and you don't have to think about it. The important thing in this case is whether his employer is willing to use code under license (which, to be clear, is not the GPL, but a different one, for anyone still confused about this) rather than owning the right to all of their code. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 21:07:45 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:07:45 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45521ED5.7040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061108173715.83258.qmail@web61317.mail.yahoo.com> <45521ED5.7040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I don't think it would block everything - I'm not 100% on this, but Order Deny, Allow would mean that the deny gets applied first, and then select hosts are whitelisted with the allows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 21:09:53 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:09:53 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1163019632.4285.122.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <99a6c38f0611081154i640d3e1bn8cbaa4212129c290@mail.gmail.com> <1163019632.4285.122.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611081309w3ab3629fj4bda0b0228c6c7d4@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/06, ted leslie wrote: [...] > Nothing that is quick straight forward engineering should be patentable. Agreed. > But the Patent office can't be expected to dive in deep on each submission, No? Then what is the Patent Office's function? > The MS patent was larger then the other 11 put together. It doesn't > apply to mine, I know that, but I have to understand their shit, to be > able to defend mine :( Again I have to agree - a most unfortunate truth that won't go away any time soon... without a fight. By "supporting" software patents (by proxy; by applying for them) the problem will not get any better. Again, this is my opinion and no offence is intended. I just see it as increasing the amount of work required to fix the real problems. [Like Patent Offices actually looking at and validating patents prior to awarding them. Running keyword searches and asking for applicants to refute potential infringement might be efficient (in the temporal sense) but can hardly be considered a robust form of research.] >From a business perspective, I see the appeal of software patents. As a life-long student of the information the world has to offer, I see them in a completely different light. Take care - and best of luck with your endeavours. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 21:49:34 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 08 Nov 2006 16:49:34 -0500 Subject: Free and Cheap LPI exams in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, LPI is in the process of 'beta testing' the new Level 3 (enterprise) certification until the end of the year and I'm organizing an exam lab for anyone that is interested. The free exams are the level 3 ones. Details on the first two exams that are being released are at: https://group.lpi.org/cgi-bin/publicwiki/view/Examdev/LPIC-3 and instructions for exam takers are at: https://group.lpi.org/publicwiki/pub/Examdev/LPIC-3/l3_instructions.pdf The cheap exams are the LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 (level 1 and level 2) exams. They will be $50CAD (as opposed to the usual $150USD+GST). Details on those exams are on the regular lpi.org web site at: http://www.lpi.org/en/lpi/english/certification/the_lpic_program The exam lab is goin to be held at: Date: Dec 2, 2006 (Saturday) Time: 9:00am - 4:00pm Location: 116 Industry St., Toronto Level 1 and 2 exams are 90 minutes each. Level 3 exams are 180 minutes each (with a break at the halfway mark). If anyone is interested, please send me an e-mail to confirm or get additional information. Also, even if you aren't certain that you can pass the level 3 exams, it's worth a shot. a) they're free, b) if you fail, you can have them removed from your records (ie. no penalty for failing) and c) you don't have to take the LPI exams in order so why not go for the freebie. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 22:17:21 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:17:21 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611081309w3ab3629fj4bda0b0228c6c7d4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <99a6c38f0611081154i640d3e1bn8cbaa4212129c290@mail.gmail.com> <1163019632.4285.122.camel@stan64.site> <99a6c38f0611081309w3ab3629fj4bda0b0228c6c7d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1163024241.4285.147.camel@stan64.site> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 16:09 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/8/06, ted leslie wrote: > [...] > > Nothing that is quick straight forward engineering should be patentable. > > Agreed. > > > But the Patent office can't be expected to dive in deep on each submission, > > No? Then what is the Patent Office's function? Time stamp it, make sure its concisely written, and if an easy enough concept to grasp, see if its in fact a unique technology. Based on what you pay (For a patent), there isn't the funds to put a group of professionals on it for the period of time it takes to digest a complex patent. I'd keep the patent process the same (i wouldnt complicate it any more, they are slow as molasses as it is now). But for conflict/enforcement/defence of patents, I'd make it so a non-biased review board made up of university grad/prof's/etc reviews (as a N-man/woman panel) the merits of, and rate the uniqueness as a percentage, and use that with respect allow court injunction (i.e. RIM), and other factors. This peer review would be used to make the parties realize if they pursue in court, what the like outcome would be. So, in other words, MS would have to get say 24 university profs (in that area of expertise) to rank there patent for merit and against others. Most conflicts/enforcement would probably rank very low and the lawsuits wouldn't happen, and/or, they could, but the ranking would make it unrealistic to shut down the (possibly) offending party, until the case is concluded, and if guilt, damages can be awarded. Peer comments would be freely made available to be used in the offense or defense of the case if it goes to court. To keep the cost down for the small guy (up against Goliath i.e. MS). If MS were to take to court, a patent that would be defeated, then its worse for MS then if they just keep it as a "cold war nuke". This is one of the reasons i don't think a lot of patent conflict go to court, as its usually a poker bluff game, and I think a lot of the time the person wanting to enforce (BS) patents knows they really don't want a outcome (officially) decided. Lot better to scare the money out of your competitors, then to risk having a patent struck down. The only problem with patents is the ridiculous cost to fight a court case, often prohibitive . That why if society allowed its (gov't funded) educational institute professional to peer review this stuff (as a civic duty), it would be nice. Lets face it , if your countries university professionals can't understand or comment on the stuff, then you got bigger problems to be concerned about. I know lots of profs at universities that would love to weight in on a MS patent issue :) -tl > > > The MS patent was larger then the other 11 put together. It doesn't > > apply to mine, I know that, but I have to understand their shit, to be > > able to defend mine :( > > Again I have to agree - a most unfortunate truth that won't go away > any time soon... without a fight. By "supporting" software patents > (by proxy; by applying for them) the problem will not get any better. > Again, this is my opinion and no offence is intended. I just see it > as increasing the amount of work required to fix the real problems. > [Like Patent Offices actually looking at and validating patents prior > to awarding them. Running keyword searches and asking for applicants > to refute potential infringement might be efficient (in the temporal > sense) but can hardly be considered a robust form of research.] > > >From a business perspective, I see the appeal of software patents. As > a life-long student of the information the world has to offer, I see > them in a completely different light. > > Take care - and best of luck with your endeavours. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 01:13:33 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:13:33 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <45516214.2040901-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061108201333.2ce5cac4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then locks up > hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. I waited on my old Ti4200 until it was > down to $250, and quite a deal it was. > > Got a friend with a 6600 GT who is moving to Dominican Republic in a week or > two, he's parting out his system. He paid $150 for it I think, likely will > want less than $100 if you are interested. Worth the upgrade for sure, esp. > for the price. AGP right? Hmmm, if that's the same card as Lennart mentions in his post... Hell ya! :-) Running Doom 3 at *anything* over 640x480 would be sweeeet. And Tenebrae...ooooooh :D -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: "Make up some feelings and tell her you have them. Yes?" Zoidberg: "Is the desire to mate a feeling?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 02:19:11 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:19:11 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <45516214.2040901-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061108211911.3f7716c1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then locks up > hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. Oh, if you only knew what I've been through, lo these many weeks. Let's put it this way: I've got so much buggy Windows crap installed at this point, I might as well be dual-booting. CS fans slag it to hell, but I've got an Urban Terror (Q3 mod) server running here. Standard port, just ping freeyourmachine.org (never mind the website, hopelessly neglected and lame anyway...). Just lookin' fer people to blow up (or, more likely, blow me up). Set it up for my nephews who are now too cool to hang with me, and my daughter, according to my *wife*, should not be playing with H&K MP5's (but they're so *cute*!) ;) For now it's just running with a bunch of dumb bots, but I usually jump on there at night for a few quick frags, and anyone who wants to blow my head off (most of this list? LOL!) can message me through ICQ (280779813) or Yahoo (j04h1ll). Anyhow, it's running on a new project based on the open Q3 code, ioquake3.org. Gentoo users can just 'emerge quake3', though I'm not sure how much easier that is than running a freakin' .run file ;) The Urban Terror mod is available here: http://www.urbanterror.net/news.php Kinda a big download, but it's worth it. Graphics are waaaaay cooler than CS! /ducks -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: "Oh, vanity, thy name is Professor Farnsworth." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 02:54:52 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:54:52 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061108211911.3f7716c1-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> <20061108211911.3f7716c1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4552987C.3080009@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 > Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then locks up >> hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. > > Oh, if you only knew what I've been through, lo these many weeks. Let's put it > this way: I've got so much buggy Windows crap installed at this point, I might > as well be dual-booting. > > CS fans slag it to hell, but I've got an Urban Terror (Q3 mod) server running > here. Standard port, just ping freeyourmachine.org (never mind the website, > hopelessly neglected and lame anyway...). > > Just lookin' fer people to blow up (or, more likely, blow me up). Set it up for > my nephews who are now too cool to hang with me, and my daughter, according to > my *wife*, should not be playing with H&K MP5's (but they're so *cute*!) ;) > > For now it's just running with a bunch of dumb bots, but I usually jump on > there at night for a few quick frags, and anyone who wants to blow my > head off (most of this list? LOL!) can message me through ICQ (280779813) or > Yahoo (j04h1ll). > > Anyhow, it's running on a new project based on the open Q3 code, > ioquake3.org. Gentoo users can just 'emerge quake3', though I'm not sure how > much easier that is than running a freakin' .run file ;) > > The Urban Terror mod is available here: > > http://www.urbanterror.net/news.php > > Kinda a big download, but it's worth it. Graphics are waaaaay cooler than CS! > > /ducks > Heh, I like Tremulous myself, same thing, based on Q3 engine. Aliens and humans meet in a first person shooter real time strategy blend. Fast paced (like Quake), looks great, super stable, and the number of servers is growing everyday. I'll check out Urban Terror though, sounds great. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 13:31:48 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:31:48 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <4552987C.3080009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> <20061108211911.3f7716c1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4552987C.3080009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <45532DC4.1060208@golden.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 >> Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: >> >>> Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then >>> locks up >>> hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. >> >> Oh, if you only knew what I've been through, lo these many weeks. >> Let's put it >> this way: I've got so much buggy Windows crap installed at this >> point, I might >> as well be dual-booting. >> >> CS fans slag it to hell, but I've got an Urban Terror (Q3 mod) server >> running >> here. Standard port, just ping freeyourmachine.org (never mind the >> website, >> hopelessly neglected and lame anyway...). >> >> Just lookin' fer people to blow up (or, more likely, blow me up). Set >> it up for >> my nephews who are now too cool to hang with me, and my daughter, >> according to >> my *wife*, should not be playing with H&K MP5's (but they're so >> *cute*!) ;) >> >> For now it's just running with a bunch of dumb bots, but I usually >> jump on >> there at night for a few quick frags, and anyone who wants to blow my >> head off (most of this list? LOL!) can message me through ICQ >> (280779813) or >> Yahoo (j04h1ll). >> >> Anyhow, it's running on a new project based on the open Q3 code, >> ioquake3.org. Gentoo users can just 'emerge quake3', though I'm not >> sure how >> much easier that is than running a freakin' .run file ;) >> >> The Urban Terror mod is available here: >> >> http://www.urbanterror.net/news.php >> >> Kinda a big download, but it's worth it. Graphics are waaaaay cooler >> than CS! >> >> /ducks >> > > Heh, I like Tremulous myself, same thing, based on Q3 engine. Aliens > and humans meet in a first person shooter real time strategy blend. > Fast paced (like Quake), looks great, super stable, and the number of > servers is growing everyday. I'll check out Urban Terror though, > sounds great. > -- Tremulous rocks ! Nexuiz is good as well. Both are free and open source. My son and I play. His machine is a Sempron 900 with 384 MB Ram & 64 MB Gforce. He gets usually 60 fps. Not fantastic but workable. Mine is an XP 1800 with 512 MB & 128 Fx5200 gets 90 fps. I actually want to put up a dedicated Tremulous server myself. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 13:57:03 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:57:03 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45520E83.4000506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45520E83.4000506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <455333AF.6090205@utoronto.ca> Lance F. Squire wrote: > Ok, at some point today FC could see the Ubuntu printer. Unfortunatly, I > have since lost it. > > Here are the presumably relevent bits from the cups files on the Ubuntu > machine. > > /etc/cups/cupsd.conf > > # Restrict access to the server... > > Order Deny,Allow > Deny From All > Allow localhost > Allow @LOCAL > Allow From 192.168.5.* > > > /etc/cups/cups.d/ports.conf > > #Listen localhost:631 > Port 631 > Listen /var/run/cups/cups.sock > > I have also added a line in /etc/hosts on the FC machine pointing to the > Ubuntu machine. Is the server broadcasting the printer? You may need to check this section: # BrowseAddress: specifies a broadcast address to be used. By # default browsing information is not sent! # # Note: HP-UX does not properly handle broadcast unless you have a # Class A, B, C, or D netmask (i.e. no CIDR support). # # Note: Using the "global" broadcast address (255.255.255.255) will # activate a Linux demand-dial link with the default configuration. # If you have a LAN as well as the dial-up link, use the LAN's # broadcast address. # # The @LOCAL address broadcasts to all non point-to-point interfaces. # For example, if you have a LAN and a dial-up link, @LOCAL would # send printer updates to the LAN but not to the dial-up link. # Similarly, the @IF(name) address sends to the named network # interface, e.g. @IF(eth0) under Linux. Interfaces are refreshed # automatically (no more than once every 60 seconds), so they can # be used on dynamically-configured interfaces, e.g. PPP, 802.11, etc. # #BrowseAddress x.y.z.255 #BrowseAddress x.y.255.255 #BrowseAddress x.255.255.255 #BrowseAddress 255.255.255.255 #BrowseAddress @LOCAL #BrowseAddress @IF(name) You also need: Browsing On -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 13:59:26 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:59:26 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - One Week - Atomic OS Message-ID: <1163080766.2337.13.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 7:00 pm. Location: Linux Caffe Topic: Atomic OS Scott Elcomb will be presenting a talk on the Atomic OS project. Using a web browser, Atomic OS emulates/provides standard operating system features including a command-line shell, interpreter, filesystem, database access and GUI services. Plus the usual open forum on Linux news, projects and problems. Attendance is free. Send a confirmation to Ken Burtch (http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html) to reserve your seat. For more information about PegaSoft events, visit http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html. Join our low-volume mailing list at http://www.pegasoft.ca/mailing_lists.html. KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 14:11:17 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:11:17 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <45532DC4.1060208-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> <20061108211911.3f7716c1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4552987C.3080009@utoronto.ca> <45532DC4.1060208@golden.net> Message-ID: <20061109091117.027e1b0f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:31:48 -0500 John Myshrall got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Nexuiz Just checkin' that out. Wow. I always loved the Dark Places engine, that's just too cool. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Zapp: You win again, gravity! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 14:18:02 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:18:02 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <45532DC4.1060208-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> <20061108211911.3f7716c1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4552987C.3080009@utoronto.ca> <45532DC4.1060208@golden.net> Message-ID: <20061109091802.15606af1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:31:48 -0500 John Myshrall got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Nexuiz 200 MB?? Holy... Must be lotsa goodies in that thar tarball... :D -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fan: "Aha ha, fan beats man." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 15:02:28 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:02:28 -0500 Subject: short term contract lead for customized Fedora serial driver Message-ID: <200611091002.28380.ican@netrover.com> I have a lead on a short term piece of work on a customization of a serial kernel module to meet the specs below. Contact me offlist if you think this is something you know how to do. bob =========== snip from client description of problem ========== > I have a C program in Linux that talks to slot machine which require a > wakeup bit be set. The protocol requiers 1 start, 8 data, 1 wakeup, 1 > stop bit. > > Essentially I need the set or 127 characters to go out with the parity > bit set to zero. In addition I need, at least, to be able to send out > 0x00, 0x01, 0x80, 0x81 and 0x82 out with the parity bit set to 1. > Ideally it would be transparent. The starting byte would have the > wakeup (parity) bit set, the rest of the message would would not. > > I've not been able to use mark parity (does not work) so I am faking > it by switching parity to emulate the wakeup bit. > > But this presents a timing problem occasionally. Some slots require an > inter-byte delay of no more than 5ms. The partity switching is causing > delays in the order of 6 to 8 ms. > > My guess is that the wakeup bit emulation built into the Linux kernel > would be faster and the same basic idea would work but in under 5ms, > making the problem disappear. I'm using Fedora Core 4 and would like > the driver to be installable in FC5 and FC6 if possible. ========= end snip ============ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 16:01:18 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:01:18 -0500 Subject: Patents (was Re:Re:Microsoft/Novell) In-Reply-To: <1162950337.4285.71.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061109160118.BF78883836@sarg.ryerson.ca> As the author of two preliminary software patents, let me state that I am extremely glad that the company that was making the application didn't have the resources to pursue the final patent. I was a little queasy about the idea of software patents beforehand, but as we went forward with the process and I looked more at existing software patents, I became increasingly uncomfortable. Software patents are either: 1) patenting ideas (which is explicitly outside the domain of patents), or 2) patenting the use of the idea in one particular context (which should be useless, because nobody else will have that context, but in practice it gets overinterpreted, used for bullying, and verges heavily into patenting ideas). While my exploration of software patents has perhaps been biased, I have looked at dozens of software patents, from IBM, Microsoft, and others. *All* of them were clearly patents of ideas *and* obvious to a practitioner, but tried to wrap them up in some application in order to be patentable. From an examination of recent USPTO patents, they clearly needn't have bothered wrapping them up. In the last 5 years patents have been issued for (1) the wheel, and (2) swinging. Business practice patents are in the same category. Hardware patents *may* make sense because of the capital-plant investment, although my belief in even that has been seriously challenged as I've thought about this for the last several years. Lifeform/DNA/drug patents have similar properties to hardware patents (huge up-front costs) but are a huge impediment to scientific progress. As an example, there are currently 34 patents relating to malaria, so anyone seriously attempting to do research for a cure needs to get licenses for most or all of those patents before they can start. Of the 2 patent applications in which I was involved, one was between a software and a business-practice patent of dubious non-obviousness. The second was a fore-shadower of some of AJAX web technology, and was rather clever so I might accept as being non-obvious, but subsequently we uncovered related prior-art (which the USPTO would never have found). I'm confident that both patents would have been granted. On the other hand, I'm a big fan of copyright, particularly when paired with a Creative Commons license (of which there are several and which more-or-less subsume GNU and BSD type software licenses). ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 16:08:43 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:08:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45521ED5.7040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45521ED5.7040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061109160843.31357.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Here is an explanation on order directive from http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/home/koe/docs/manuals/api/access_conf.html order allow, deny Specifies which order the allow and deny directives will be evaluated. In this case, the allow directives are the default and the deny directives override the defaults. order deny, allow Specifies which order the allow and deny directives will be evaluated. In this case, the deny directives are the default and the allow directives override the defaults. Note on order The order directives, borrowed from the NCSA httpd configuration format, can be confusing. order allow,deny means that any host that matches an allow directive will be granted permission unless it also matches a deny directive. If the host doesn't match any pattern, it will be denied. So accordingly all are denied access. The reason that removing the line did not have effect is that the configuration file has to be reloaded. You can restart cups with /etc/init.d/cupsd restart after making the configuration change. EK "Lance F. Squire" wrote: E K wrote: > Why do you have > deny from all > > That makes the service unavailable from anywhere. > > EK > Because everything I can find says thats the way its suposed to be. Removing it had no effect. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 16:47:56 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:47:56 -0500 Subject: short term contract lead for customized Fedora serial driver In-Reply-To: <200611091002.28380.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611091002.28380.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20061109164756.GE8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:02:28AM -0500, bob wrote: > I have a lead on a short term piece of work on a customization of a serial > kernel module to meet the specs below. > > Contact me offlist if you think this is something you know how to do. > > bob > > =========== snip from client description of problem ========== > > I have a C program in Linux that talks to slot machine which require a > > wakeup bit be set. The protocol requiers 1 start, 8 data, 1 wakeup, 1 > > stop bit. > > > > Essentially I need the set or 127 characters to go out with the parity > > bit set to zero. In addition I need, at least, to be able to send out > > 0x00, 0x01, 0x80, 0x81 and 0x82 out with the parity bit set to 1. > > Ideally it would be transparent. The starting byte would have the > > wakeup (parity) bit set, the rest of the message would would not. > > > > I've not been able to use mark parity (does not work) so I am faking > > it by switching parity to emulate the wakeup bit. > > > > But this presents a timing problem occasionally. Some slots require an > > inter-byte delay of no more than 5ms. The partity switching is causing > > delays in the order of 6 to 8 ms. > > > > My guess is that the wakeup bit emulation built into the Linux kernel > > would be faster and the same basic idea would work but in under 5ms, > > making the problem disappear. I'm using Fedora Core 4 and would like > > the driver to be installable in FC5 and FC6 if possible. > > ========= end snip ============ Hmm, well the reason it probably takes too long to change parity is that you are actually changing a register in the serial chip. Parity isn't managed by software, it is usually managed by the serial port hardware itself. It is meant to detect errors on the serial line between two ports, and it the software generally only cares if a parity error occoured, not what the parity bit is. At least that is my understanding of the 8250/16550 register interface. If I am right, then there probably is no way to implement this type of messed up serial protocol using a standard 8250 style serial port. Then again maybe a PCI based port would change settings faster than an isa/lpc based port does. I assume you mean you use MARK to force parity bit to 1, and SPACE to force parity bit to 0. Or were you actually calculating the parity of the current data and changing parity settings to ODD/EVEN to generate the right parity bit for that case? I guess you could try using something like a Digi Neo 2 port PCI card, since at least register access on a PCI card is usually pretty fast. Maybe that would make your method fast enough. I really doubt the over head of accessing the kernel to change the parity setting is really that high compared to the kernel actually changing the register in hardware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 16:47:59 2006 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:47:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Free and Cheap LPI exams in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <851487.47885.qm@web50803.mail.yahoo.com> Hi rice, I am interested in level 1 TEST. Please send me more information. BTW, is there any course before the emam from your place? Thanks! Louie --- "G. Matthew Rice" wrote: > Hi everyone, > > LPI is in the process of 'beta testing' the new > Level 3 (enterprise) > certification until the end of the year and I'm > organizing an exam lab for > anyone that is interested. > > The free exams are the level 3 ones. Details on the > first two exams that are > being released are at: > > > https://group.lpi.org/cgi-bin/publicwiki/view/Examdev/LPIC-3 > > and instructions for exam takers are at: > > > https://group.lpi.org/publicwiki/pub/Examdev/LPIC-3/l3_instructions.pdf > > > The cheap exams are the LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 (level 1 > and level 2) exams. They > will be $50CAD (as opposed to the usual > $150USD+GST). Details on those exams > are on the regular lpi.org web site at: > > > http://www.lpi.org/en/lpi/english/certification/the_lpic_program > > > The exam lab is goin to be held at: > > Date: Dec 2, 2006 (Saturday) > Time: 9:00am - 4:00pm > Location: 116 Industry St., Toronto > > Level 1 and 2 exams are 90 minutes each. Level 3 > exams are 180 minutes each > (with a break at the halfway mark). > > If anyone is interested, please send me an e-mail to > confirm or get > additional information. Also, even if you aren't > certain that you can pass > the level 3 exams, it's worth a shot. a) they're > free, b) if you fail, > you can have them removed from your records (ie. no > penalty for failing) and > c) you don't have to take the LPI exams in order so > why not go for the > freebie. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice > starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 > gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional > linux services & products > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 16:51:33 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:51:33 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <20061109160843.31357.qmail-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061109160843.31357.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45535C95.2080406@alteeve.com> E K wrote: > The reason that removing the line > did not have effect is that the configuration file has to be reloaded. > You can restart cups with > /etc/init.d/cupsd restart > > after making the configuration change. > EK > Um... You really should >ASK< if i restarted the service rather than assuming I didn't! I always restart the service after editing the config files. have reversed the Deny/Allow order and remed the 'Deny All' line. Test prints clame to be getting through, though the gui still lists the printer as 'Destination printer does not exist!' Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 17:03:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:03:44 -0500 Subject: Yet more mindless self promotion In-Reply-To: <20061108201333.2ce5cac4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061102132013.67396.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20061107033138.5f9417a0@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4550BBA6.5090203@utoronto.ca> <20061107214338.0eec2083@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45516214.2040901@utoronto.ca> <20061108201333.2ce5cac4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061109170344.GF8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 08:13:33PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:28 -0500 > Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > Having problems with CS:S myself, it runs for a few minutes then locks up > > hard. Wine, Cedega, doesn't matter. I waited on my old Ti4200 until it was > > down to $250, and quite a deal it was. > > > > Got a friend with a 6600 GT who is moving to Dominican Republic in a week or > > two, he's parting out his system. He paid $150 for it I think, likely will > > want less than $100 if you are interested. Worth the upgrade for sure, esp. > > for the price. AGP right? > > Hmmm, if that's the same card as Lennart mentions in his post... I think BFG is one of the few that sells pre overclocked cards although it is only by 5 or 10% so nothing too major. Mine is the 128MB version. There is also a 256MB version of the 6600GT OC. Any 6600GT is a decent card. The 7800GS cards are also not that expensive anymore. The 7600GS is about half of the 7800GS. The 7600 GS is slightly lower clock than a 6600 GT, but has 12 rather than 8 pipelines. A 512MB BFG 7600 GS OC AGP can be had for $175. A 7800GS is faster memory but slightly slower GPU than a 6600GT. It all comes down to finding a balance that works for you application in terms of: GPU clock Memory clock Memory quantity Pixel pipelines Texture units Shader units Price you are willing to spend -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 17:20:32 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:20:32 -0500 Subject: GPLv3 & GNU/Linux, or maybe Linux/GNU ??? Message-ID: >From http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000111 with my comments interspersed: Richard Stallman "Now, what we didn't have 15 years ago was the threat of making the program effectively non free by technical restrictions placed around it. That's what Tivoisation is. Tivoisation means taking a free program and distributing a binary of it, and also providing the source, because the GPL requires that. But when the user changes the source code and compiles it and then tries to install the changed program he discovers that that's impossible because the machine is designed not to let him." He makes a very important point here. Stallman is our ideologue, like it or not, and though he may approach things in an overly rigid and openly dogmatic manner, his work (GPL, FSF, GNU etc.) is crucially important; if for no other reason than that it provides a central point of focus around which to debate and define one's own position, be it one of agreement or diametrically opposed. One must not forget one's origins, nor should one discount the relevance of GPLv2 or 3 based on a disagreement with personalities or philosophies. Linus Torvalds "In some ways, I can even hope that it clears the air for all the stupid tensions to just admit that there are differences of opinion, and that the FSF might even just stop using the name "GNU/Linux", finally admitting that Linux never was a GNU project in the first place." Straight from the horse's mouth folks, it doesn't get much clearer than that. Alan Cox "There is no such thing as GNU/Linux. For an article like this it's really important to understand and clarify that (and from the US view also as a trademark matter). I mean there is no abstract entity even that is properly called "GNU/Linux". It's a bit of spin-doctoring by the FSF to try and link themselves to Linux. Normally its just one of those things they do and people sigh about, but when you look at the licensing debate the distinction is vital. (its also increasingly true that FSF owned code is a minority part of Linux)" I wonder what the largest majority of code is in a GNU&&||Linux system. Perhaps Debian has it right calling it GNU/Linux after all, not necessarily calling it GNU or Linux, but highlighting the combination of the two. After all is said and done, any major distribution is indisputably a combination of those two (and other) constituent parts. Greg Kroah-Hartman "So it seems that the FSF is only targeting the Tivo issue, which us kernel developers have explicitly stated in public that it is acceptable to use _our_ code in this manner. So they are now trying to tell another group (us) what we should do to our code. As the FSF has no contribution in the Linux kernel, and has nothing to do with it in general, we kernel developers are now a bit upset that someone else is trying to tell us that something we explicitly stated was acceptable use of our code, is suddenly bad and wrong." Does seem a sort of roundabout way of getting a GPLv3 licensed kernel or tool onto my computer vs. a Tivo box. Granted many use something like MythTV, but if we just stopped watching tv altogether or downloaded HDTV torrents of said show, problem solved, albeit in a flippant and non-legal manner :) Andrew Morton "In fact this points at a broad problem with the existing process: I'm sure that a large majority of the people who actually write this code haven't made their opinions felt to the FSF. Yet the FSF presumes to speak for them, and proposes to use their work as ammunition in the FSF's campaigns." The phrase "if you permit it you promote it" comes to mind. Dave Miller "For the kernel I'm pretty sure things will go on as they have before." As Greg Kroah-Hartman said, the kernel developers have no problem with Tivo devices using a Linux kernel with or without said device allowing changes to the code. Richard Stallman "Calling the combined system GNU/Linux is right because it gives the GNU Project credit for its work, but there are things more important than credit -- your freedom, for example. It is no accident that the GNU GPL existed before Linux was begun. We wrote the GPL to protect the freedom of the users of GNU, and we are revising it today so that it will protect against newer technical methods of denying that freedom. When you think about GPL issues, this is the background for them. If the developers of Linux disagree with that goal, they are entitled to their views. They are entitled to cite their important work--Linux, the kernel--to be listened to more, but they should respect our right to cite the GNU system in the same way." Who can argue with that sentiment? Seems the FSF is just trying to keep up with the times and stay relevant, while also trying to create a framework that will allow Free/Open Source Software to stay that way indefinitely. Admirable, and I think, kernel issues aside, crucially important to protect our freedom to do what we want with our various bits and pieces of hardware. How about Linux/GNU then? Comments, flames, DDoSes welcome (http://www.jamonation.com/node/466). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 17:34:21 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:34:21 -0500 Subject: GPLv3 & GNU/Linux, or maybe Linux/GNU ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4553669D.6010801@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: >>From http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000111 with my comments interspersed: > > Richard Stallman > > "Now, what we didn't have 15 years ago was the threat of making the > program effectively non free by technical restrictions placed around it. > That's what Tivoisation is. Tivoisation means taking a free program and > distributing a binary of it, and also providing the source, because the > GPL requires that. But when the user changes the source code and > compiles it and then tries to install the changed program he discovers > that that's impossible because the machine is designed not to let him." > > He makes a very important point here. Stallman is our ideologue, like it > or not, and though he may approach things in an overly rigid and openly > dogmatic manner, his work (GPL, FSF, GNU etc.) is crucially important; > if for no other reason than that it provides a central point of focus > around which to debate and define one's own position, be it one of > agreement or diametrically opposed. One must not forget one's origins, > nor should one discount the relevance of GPLv2 or 3 based on a > disagreement with personalities or philosophies. > > Linus Torvalds > > "In some ways, I can even hope that it clears the air for all the stupid > tensions to just admit that there are differences of opinion, and that > the FSF might even just stop using the name "GNU/Linux", finally > admitting that Linux never was a GNU project in the first place." > > Straight from the horse's mouth folks, it doesn't get much clearer than > that. > > Alan Cox > > "There is no such thing as GNU/Linux. For an article like this it's > really important to understand and clarify that (and from the US view > also as a trademark matter). > > I mean there is no abstract entity even that is properly called > "GNU/Linux". It's a bit of spin-doctoring by the FSF to try and link > themselves to Linux. Normally its just one of those things they do and > people sigh about, but when you look at the licensing debate the > distinction is vital. (its also increasingly true that FSF owned code is > a minority part of Linux)" > > I wonder what the largest majority of code is in a GNU&&||Linux system. > Perhaps Debian has it right calling it GNU/Linux after all, not > necessarily calling it GNU or Linux, but highlighting the combination of > the two. After all is said and done, any major distribution is > indisputably a combination of those two (and other) constituent parts. > > Greg Kroah-Hartman > > "So it seems that the FSF is only targeting the Tivo issue, which us > kernel developers have explicitly stated in public that it is acceptable > to use _our_ code in this manner. So they are now trying to tell another > group (us) what we should do to our code. > > As the FSF has no contribution in the Linux kernel, and has nothing to > do with it in general, we kernel developers are now a bit upset that > someone else is trying to tell us that something we explicitly stated > was acceptable use of our code, is suddenly bad and wrong." > > Does seem a sort of roundabout way of getting a GPLv3 licensed kernel or > tool onto my computer vs. a Tivo box. Granted many use something like > MythTV, but if we just stopped watching tv altogether or downloaded HDTV > torrents of said show, problem solved, albeit in a flippant and > non-legal manner :) > > Andrew Morton > > "In fact this points at a broad problem with the existing process: I'm > sure that a large majority of the people who actually write this code > haven't made their opinions felt to the FSF. Yet the FSF presumes to > speak for them, and proposes to use their work as ammunition in the > FSF's campaigns." > > The phrase "if you permit it you promote it" comes to mind. > > Dave Miller > > "For the kernel I'm pretty sure things will go on as they have before." > > As Greg Kroah-Hartman said, the kernel developers have no problem with > Tivo devices using a Linux kernel with or without said device allowing > changes to the code. > > Richard Stallman > > "Calling the combined system GNU/Linux is right because it gives the GNU > Project credit for its work, but there are things more important than > credit -- your freedom, for example. It is no accident that the GNU GPL > existed before Linux was begun. We wrote the GPL to protect the freedom > of the users of GNU, and we are revising it today so that it will > protect against newer technical methods of denying that freedom. When > you think about GPL issues, this is the background for them. > > If the developers of Linux disagree with that goal, they are entitled to > their views. They are entitled to cite their important work--Linux, the > kernel--to be listened to more, but they should respect our right to > cite the GNU system in the same way." > > Who can argue with that sentiment? Seems the FSF is just trying to keep > up with the times and stay relevant, while also trying to create a > framework that will allow Free/Open Source Software to stay that way > indefinitely. Admirable, and I think, kernel issues aside, crucially > important to protect our freedom to do what we want with our various > bits and pieces of hardware. > > How about Linux/GNU then? I don't have much to add, because I try to stay away from these ideological debates (do *you* want to get between Stallman and Torvalds?). In the end, as a small-time developer of a little project on the periphery of GNU/Linux (yes, I went there!), I am just happy these guys are tearing into each other about freedom. So long as the "tearing" remains professional and civil, good will come of it. The end result will likely be some amalgam of the two ideologies that will protect our freedom to tinker better than either alone could do. And props on your email. It was really well laid and thought out. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 19:03:13 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 09 Nov 2006 14:03:13 -0500 Subject: Linux/Scripting survey In-Reply-To: <20061109120120.GA12026-IuPLbuXCSHZWG/WdbR7gnQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060526131456.A15325@it.uts.edu.au> <20060531160106.A13855@it.uts.edu.au> <20060719205648.A29643@it.uts.edu.au> <20060812144602.A3166@it.uts.edu.au> <20061109120120.GA12026@it.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: Andrew Solomon writes: > hi Matthew > > As a first step toward figuring out what we should test, > using Linuxgym I'm running this survey: > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=743662789831 > > Would you mind sending it out to people you think would > have an interest in it? Hi all, Andrew and his gang are trying to come up with a shell scripting (and command line?) education programme, certification, other things. If you're interested in this topic, consider helping by filling out the survey. It takes less than 10 minutes. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 19:32:15 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:32:15 -0500 Subject: Linux/Scripting survey In-Reply-To: References: <20060526131456.A15325@it.uts.edu.au> <20060531160106.A13855@it.uts.edu.au> <20060719205648.A29643@it.uts.edu.au> <20060812144602.A3166@it.uts.edu.au> <20061109120120.GA12026@it.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: I have to say that was a really intriguing survey .. the part I really enjoyed was the scale used to gauge how important a tool was: did it belong in your pocket, in your toolbox, in the van, or in the shed. While I prefer Perl, shell scripting is sometimes way easier and faster to get something done, and it's good to know how to do something a couple of different ways. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario On 09 Nov 2006 14:03:13 -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > Andrew Solomon writes: > > hi Matthew > > > > As a first step toward figuring out what we should test, > > using Linuxgym I'm running this survey: > > > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=743662789831 > > > > Would you mind sending it out to people you think would > > have an interest in it? > > Hi all, > > Andrew and his gang are trying to come up with a shell scripting (and > command > line?) education programme, certification, other things. > > If you're interested in this topic, consider helping by filling out the > survey. It takes less than 10 minutes. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 20:07:03 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:07:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45535C95.2080406-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45535C95.2080406@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061109200703.68348.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> "Um... You really should >ASK< if i restarted the service rather than assuming I didn't!" I agree. I meant "may be" than "is". On the other hand, what matters was the info on the directive than the "is" and "may be". EK "Lance F. Squire" wrote: E K wrote: > The reason that removing the line > did not have effect is that the configuration file has to be reloaded. > You can restart cups with > /etc/init.d/cupsd restart > > after making the configuration change. > EK > Um... You really should >ASK< if i restarted the service rather than assuming I didn't! I always restart the service after editing the config files. have reversed the Deny/Allow order and remed the 'Deny All' line. Test prints clame to be getting through, though the gui still lists the printer as 'Destination printer does not exist!' Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 20:19:45 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:19:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Question regarding multiple MX records In-Reply-To: <20061109200703.68348.qmail-inj+/bcMcZ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061109200703.68348.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061109201945.22446.qmail@web61321.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, What happens where there are multiple MX record entries in a zone file. Does email get distributed according to the priority or the record or does email get routed to the server will lower priority only if no email server of higher priority does not respond? Do all email server fall back automatically to lower priority email server to deliver email when the server with high priority does not respond or some server will just wait for the primary server come back? In other words what is the effect of an MX record entry poiting to a server that is down? Thanks, EK --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 20:26:12 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:26:12 -0500 Subject: Question regarding multiple MX records In-Reply-To: <20061109201945.22446.qmail-8lBamntEHYSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061109201945.22446.qmail@web61321.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1163103972.11897.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 15:19 -0500, E K wrote: > What happens where there are multiple MX record entries in a zone > file. Does email get distributed according to the priority or the > record or does email get routed to the server will lower priority only > if no email server of higher priority does not respond? > > Do all email server fall back automatically to lower priority email > server to deliver email when the server with high priority does not > respond or some server will just wait for the primary server come > back? In other words what is the effect of an MX record entry poiting > to a server that is down? Servers will attempt to deliver email to the server with the lowest number. If that fails it will move to the next lowest number. Spam emailers may attempt to deliver to the higher numbers with the assumption that secondary servers will not have spam filtering and that the secondary server will be trusted by the main mx. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 20:30:50 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:30:50 -0500 Subject: Help Printer sharing Ubuntu -> FC4 In-Reply-To: <45520E83.4000506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45520E83.4000506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: seemed fine the way it is if you ask me - he never had order allow, deny, so in his case the deny gets evaled first. On 11/8/06, Lance F. Squire wrote: > # Restrict access to the server... > > Order Deny,Allow > Deny From All > Allow localhost > Allow @LOCAL > Allow From 192.168.5.* > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 9 21:15:24 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 09 Nov 2006 16:15:24 -0500 Subject: Linux/Scripting survey In-Reply-To: References: <20060526131456.A15325@it.uts.edu.au> <20060531160106.A13855@it.uts.edu.au> <20060719205648.A29643@it.uts.edu.au> <20060812144602.A3166@it.uts.edu.au> <20061109120120.GA12026@it.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: "Alex Beamish" writes: > I have to say that was a really intriguing survey .. the part I really > enjoyed was the scale used to gauge how important a tool was: did it belong > in your pocket, in your toolbox, in the van, or in the shed. While I prefer > Perl, shell scripting is sometimes way easier and faster to get something > done, and it's good to know how to do something a couple of different ways. Definitely. Just the other night I coerced my brother to switch a really gross sed script to an one liner in awk. Not only is it now readable (who wants to try and grok h;p;s/xxx/xyz/;b;x;y/xxx/xxx/;H;p [or whatever] :)) but it also works. TTYL, Matthew > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > > On 09 Nov 2006 14:03:13 -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > > Andrew Solomon writes: > > > hi Matthew > > > > > > As a first step toward figuring out what we should test, > > > using Linuxgym I'm running this survey: > > > > > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=743662789831 > > > > > > Would you mind sending it out to people you think would > > > have an interest in it? > > > > Hi all, > > > > Andrew and his gang are trying to come up with a shell scripting (and > > command > > line?) education programme, certification, other things. > > > > If you're interested in this topic, consider helping by filling out the > > survey. It takes less than 10 minutes. > > > > Regards, > > -- > > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 00:21:52 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:21:52 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer Message-ID: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been offered a relatively small PHP contract (outside work project from my boss). Trick is, my background is perl. From the code I've seen for the project it looks fairly straight forward, but there are also a fair number of things I don't recognize. Has anyone seen a php tutorial that would be particularly suited to someone who has a perl background? Rather than "this is what an if/else loop is" one that has more "in perl, you would do this whereas now in php you'd do that...". Thank kind of thing. Failing that, a php tutorial aimed at people who have a programming background of any sort would be great, too. Thanks all! Madi - who is keen to earn extra holiday moneys :3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 00:40:14 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:40:14 -0500 Subject: GPLv3 & GNU/Linux, or maybe Linux/GNU ??? In-Reply-To: <4553669D.6010801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553669D.6010801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4553CA6E.7060800@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > I don't have much to add, because I try to stay away from these > ideological debates (do *you* want to get between Stallman and > Torvalds?). In the end, as a small-time developer of a little project on > the periphery of GNU/Linux (yes, I went there!), I am just happy these > guys are tearing into each other about freedom. So long as the "tearing" > remains professional and civil, good will come of it. The end result > will likely be some amalgam of the two ideologies that will protect our > freedom to tinker better than either alone could do. Spoken like a true Hegelian, ;-) Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 00:50:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:50:46 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <4553C620.6000104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4553CCE6.1010606@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been offered a relatively small PHP contract (outside work > project from my boss). Trick is, my background is perl. From the code > I've seen for the project it looks fairly straight forward, but there > are also a fair number of things I don't recognize. > > Has anyone seen a php tutorial that would be particularly suited to > someone who has a perl background? Rather than "this is what an if/else > loop is" one that has more "in perl, you would do this whereas now in > php you'd do that...". Thank kind of thing. > > Failing that, a php tutorial aimed at people who have a programming > background of any sort would be great, too. > > Thanks all! > > Madi - who is keen to earn extra holiday moneys :3 I recall seeing a quick perl screen scraper tutorial on O'Reilly somewhere, and there are numerous PHP screen scraping tutorials out there. Granted I think both rely heavily upon regular expressions, but I'm sure if you were to compare two scrapers you'd get a general idea of where to focus your attention to learn PHP. Not sure if this was the link I saw for perl: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/01/22/mechanize.html For PHP, maybe this can help? http://www.phpit.net/article/screenscrap-rss/2/ Nothing too in depth though... A start perhaps? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 00:56:35 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:56:35 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <4553C620.6000104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200611091956.35944.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 09 November 2006 19:21, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Has anyone seen a php tutorial that would be particularly suited to > someone who has a perl background? Rather than "this is what an if/else > loop is" one that has more "in perl, you would do this whereas now in > php you'd do that...". Thank kind of thing. Go to www.php.net and get there to documentation. Or better download it and unpack it on your localhost. Have a glimpse there, or two glimpses ;) PHP is very easy to grasp. After that you will notice how easy you can start using PHP. Your first PHP script (assuming that you have a php-enabled server running. will look like this: or After that, study various functions available, especially if there are things there that might be familiar to you. I am not an eagle in anyone of them. At the level I can notice, there are some differences in handling regular expressions. Somewhat differently arrays are treated. PHP is less abstract also. Takes less care of the scope of variables, or, rather, takes care in a different way. But most of things that can be done in perl can also be done in php, in a quite similar way. At least at lower levels of programming. I am used to translate between them. Both of them have their own ways of connecting with databases and making queries but still things remain similar. A difference is in that also that perl uses external modules installed by CPAN while PHP uses PEAR (but PEAR does not exist for long and is not so reach as CPAN repositories). Also, in case of PHP many things need to be precompiled into php module that is loaded by apache (let say), (which is usually very easy) while in case of perl we are used to install CPAN modules. > Failing that, a php tutorial aimed at people who have a programming > background of any sort would be great, too. I do not know that sort of tutorial and do not much care to know :) zb. > Thanks all! > > Madi - who is keen to earn extra holiday moneys :3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 01:07:28 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:07:28 -0500 Subject: GPLv3 & GNU/Linux, or maybe Linux/GNU ??? In-Reply-To: <4553CA6E.7060800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4553669D.6010801@alteeve.com> <4553CA6E.7060800@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4553D0D0.60309@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I don't have much to add, because I try to stay away from these >> ideological debates (do *you* want to get between Stallman and >> Torvalds?). In the end, as a small-time developer of a little project >> on the periphery of GNU/Linux (yes, I went there!), I am just happy >> these guys are tearing into each other about freedom. So long as the >> "tearing" remains professional and civil, good will come of it. The >> end result will likely be some amalgam of the two ideologies that will >> protect our freedom to tinker better than either alone could do. > > Spoken like a true Hegelian, ;-) Extend the apparently contradictory poles from Hegel into a Marxist dialectic, and we soon arrive back at the issue of communist patent-hating developers that appeared on this list a short while ago--having traversed nearly 200 years of Western philosophical thought in the process. Sweet! Perhaps both camps need to recognize just how much their positions are defined by the Other ;) Linux is about philosophy, see? Coming down on the side of Stallamn for a moment, if nothing else, our quick jaunt through history lends credence to Stallman's status as an important ideologue, since his philosophy and ethics mark him as a patent deontoligist (Kant is/was a well known deontologist). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 09:18:56 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:18:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: mail server expertise needed In-Reply-To: <4553CCE6.1010606-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4553CCE6.1010606@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061110091857.33898.qmail@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> Some one is looking for a mail server expert to setup postfix with imap and webmail. Any one interested, please contact me off the list. EK --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From isss_ca-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 01:33:11 2006 From: isss_ca-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Sergey Sozontov) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:33:11 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <4553C620.6000104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: http://www.w3schools.com/php/default.asp Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been offered a relatively small PHP contract (outside work > project from my boss). Trick is, my background is perl. From the code > I've seen for the project it looks fairly straight forward, but there > are also a fair number of things I don't recognize. > > Has anyone seen a php tutorial that would be particularly suited to > someone who has a perl background? Rather than "this is what an > if/else loop is" one that has more "in perl, you would do this whereas > now in php you'd do that...". Thank kind of thing. > > Failing that, a php tutorial aimed at people who have a programming > background of any sort would be great, too. > > Thanks all! > > Madi - who is keen to earn extra holiday moneys :3 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 14:16:38 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:16:38 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <4553C620.6000104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20061110141638.GG8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 07:21:52PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've been offered a relatively small PHP contract (outside work > project from my boss). Trick is, my background is perl. From the code > I've seen for the project it looks fairly straight forward, but there > are also a fair number of things I don't recognize. > > Has anyone seen a php tutorial that would be particularly suited to > someone who has a perl background? Rather than "this is what an if/else > loop is" one that has more "in perl, you would do this whereas now in > php you'd do that...". Thank kind of thing. > > Failing that, a php tutorial aimed at people who have a programming > background of any sort would be great, too. My experience with PHP (which is quite a bit) is that you basically can start writing code if you know C. Most things work exactly as you would expect it to work. If you are not sure, do a search in the documentation on www.php.net and there are tons of usually great user supplied examples for each function. If there exists a C function to do something useful, php probably has the function too, plus a lot more to do even more useful things. Mapping perl onto any other language sounds rather impractical. It's just to messed up for that. You can usually look at other people's php code and if you know anything about programming you can probably figure out what it does, unlike perl. :) So the answer is, just jump right in. It is really that simple. Some small handy examples: ---showphpinformation.php--- --- ---helloworld.php--- Hello World! Hello World! --- ---helloworld-coded.php--- <?=$text?> --- ---helloworld-purecoded.php--- \n"; print "$text\n"; print "$text\n"; print "\n"; ?> --- You can simply jump in and out of code mode from html (the default mode) at any time with the tags. I didn't actually run any of these examples, but php code is almost never wrong... :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 14:21:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:21:57 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <20061110141638.GG8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> <20061110141638.GG8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061110142157.GH8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 09:16:38AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You can simply jump in and out of code mode from html (the default mode) > at any time with the tags. I didn't actually run any of > these examples, but php code is almost never wrong... :) Something else handy in php that may not be obvious that you can do is: Some page This is the content of my page. This is the alternate content of my page -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 20:28:36 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:28:36 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1162950337.4285.71.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45523DF4.3030802@telly.org> ted leslie wrote: > I am submitting patents now, I know something about the system, and have > seen the pathetic things that have been patented, but in working with > the lawyers, i got my education. > Half the fun was learning to write/speak patent-ese. Damn near any common practise can be made to sound like you had a stroke of genius, as you hope the world can fathom the major societal shifts made possible by the inspiration that you (and nobody else) would ever think of. Of course the lawyers are very encouraging; they (as a group) have a vested interest in a patent system that makes it easy to file stupid ones but requires difficult and lengthy litigation to prove them stupid. > First of all you can patent just about anything, > But the certificate is really pretty. Evan Leibovitch co-inventor of US patent 5,597,117 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 8 19:13:38 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:13:38 -0500 Subject: Sun looks ready to finally GPL Java Message-ID: <45522C62.1050402@telly.org> But does it matter anymore? http://www.crncanada.ca/content/ebusiness/sun-set-to-move-on-gpl-li.shtml - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 16:57:34 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan H.) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:57:34 -0500 Subject: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <20061110142157.GH8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> <20061110141638.GG8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061110142157.GH8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4554AF7E.4030905@zee4.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 17:02:11 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:02:11 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <45523DF4.3030802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <45523DF4.3030802@telly.org> Message-ID: <1163178131.3932.9.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Rumor has it Microsoft is working on grandfather clause patents on all areas of physics and chemistry claiming consistently employed persons in prior related corporations which have discovered all practical human knowledge. Copyrights on vast areas of permutations and combinations of the complete English language are on the table for future consideration. RickT "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 15:28 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > I am submitting patents now, I know something about the system, and have > > seen the pathetic things that have been patented, but in working with > > the lawyers, i got my education. > > > > Half the fun was learning to write/speak patent-ese. Damn near any > common practise can be made to sound like you had a stroke of genius, as > you hope the world can fathom the major societal shifts made possible by > the inspiration that you (and nobody else) would ever think of. > > Of course the lawyers are very encouraging; they (as a group) have a > vested interest in a patent system that makes it easy to file stupid > ones but requires difficult and lengthy litigation to prove them stupid. > > > First of all you can patent just about anything, > > > But the certificate is really pretty. > > > > Evan Leibovitch > co-inventor of US patent 5,597,117 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 19:58:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:58:13 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1163178131.3932.9.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <45523DF4.3030802@telly.org> <1163178131.3932.9.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611101158u464355a5ub14cd64066619175@mail.gmail.com> On 11/10/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Rumor has it Microsoft is working on grandfather clause patents on all > areas of physics and chemistry claiming consistently employed persons in > prior related corporations which have discovered all practical human > knowledge. Copyrights on vast areas of permutations and combinations of > the complete English language are on the table for future consideration. *runs off to patent the patent process* Then I'll patent the patenting of patent-related processes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 21:01:06 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:01:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Suing FSF for cartel activity and price fixing Message-ID: Almost everything is possible, at least once. Suing the FSF for cartel activity and price fixing (at zero ?) is one of these things. Apparently playing the zero in the card game of Whist is also frowned upon. It stifles the competitive spirit or something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Wallace_(plaintiff) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 21:05:57 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:05:57 -0500 Subject: Suing FSF for cartel activity and price fixing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing that I just can't understand or explain is stupidity like this... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 10 22:05:52 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:05:52 -0500 Subject: Sun looks ready to finally GPL Java In-Reply-To: <45522C62.1050402-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45522C62.1050402@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990611101405p1291b0a9y1af974b2c78b118@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > But does it matter anymore? > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/ebusiness/sun-set-to-move-on-gpl-li.shtml Maybe. Will they go GPL 2 or 3? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 11 00:42:20 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:42:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Intel Processor Number Feature Table Message-ID: <45551C6C.80009@utoronto.ca> There is a really nice pdf listing most of Intel's current cpus and their features (including virtualization technology). It is important to note the fine print in the table that to make use of the VT hardware on the chip you need a supporting chipset and bios. VT enabled hardware allows one to run that other OS unmodified in Xen (and possibly other hypervisors). Here's the link to the pdf: http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/proc_info_table.pdf Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 11 05:15:19 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 00:15:19 -0500 Subject: Suing FSF for cartel activity and price fixing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45555C67.6030603@telly.org> Simon wrote: > One thing that I just can't understand or explain is stupidity like > this... And even the courts agree: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/10/gpl_wallace_appeal/ - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 11 13:27:18 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:27:18 -0500 Subject: Suing FSF for cartel activity and price fixing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1163251638.3932.21.camel@spot1.localhost.com> What many "anti open source" types fail to grasp is that a significant amount of money can be made by consultants/VARs billing for labor on installations from planning to roll out. RickT "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Fri, 2006-11-10 at 21:01 +0000, Peter P. wrote: > Almost everything is possible, at least once. Suing the FSF for cartel activity > and price fixing (at zero ?) is one of these things. Apparently playing the zero > in the card game of Whist is also frowned upon. It stifles the competitive > spirit or something like that. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Wallace_(plaintiff) > > Peter P. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 11 16:32:17 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:32:17 -0500 Subject: Sun looks ready to finally GPL Java In-Reply-To: <45522C62.1050402-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45522C62.1050402@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611110832j31d7f838l29c20ba180a1ee0e@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > But does it matter anymore? > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/ebusiness/sun-set-to-move-on-gpl-li.shtml Maybe. I like the way David Berlind describes the situation. Will Sun blow up the Microsoft/Novell deal to Red Hat's benefit? ( http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=3932 ) "... Putting Java in the GPL clear would be like tearing a piece off the bottom off the .Net boat. To that extent, not only might the move legally neutralize a key part of the Microsoft-Novell deal, it could technically marginalize .Net's competitiveness. Why? Well, picture the boat. Sun just swam by and chewed a big hole in its bottom. The boat is in bad shape and the crew starts bailing out the water. But, things go from bad to much worse when a school of angry whales, the biggest of which has the letters I-B-M emblazoned on its side, flies out of the water and lands in the boat. Sun may not think of IBM and other Java licensees as the cavalry. But IBM has been laying in waiting for Java to be open sourced the way a starving Burmese python lays in waiting for a rodent to prance by. Here's a story that I wrote in 2002 about those very wishes. A GPL'd Java would be one of Big Blue's moments of glory. ..." -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 11 20:58:49 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:58:49 -0500 Subject: Microsoft/Novell In-Reply-To: <1163178131.3932.9.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <4550FD75.4070708@rogers.com> <92ee967a0611071435y6a546bf7gbf5ea58ee9da9872@mail.gmail.com> <1162950337.4285.71.camel@stan64.site> <45523DF4.3030802@telly.org> <1163178131.3932.9.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <45563989.7090102@rogers.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Rumor has it Microsoft is working on grandfather clause patents on all > areas of physics and chemistry claiming consistently employed persons in > prior related corporations which have discovered all practical human > knowledge. Copyrights on vast areas of permutations and combinations of > the complete English language are on the table for future consideration. > RickT Have they patented software bugs yet? I see a lot of innovation from them in that area. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 05:41:25 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 00:41:25 -0500 Subject: mdadm raid1, initialize existing drives? Message-ID: <4556B405.9020106@utoronto.ca> Is it possible to initialize a softraid RAID-1 setup on 2 drives, one of which has existing data? Is it a matter of mirroring one drive to the other and then running mdadm or would formatting and starting from scratch be a better/easier option? Obviously it would be nice to not have to format... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 11:10:03 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:10:03 -0500 Subject: mdadm raid1, initialize existing drives? In-Reply-To: <4556B405.9020106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4556B405.9020106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200611120610.03371.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 12 November 2006 00:41, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Is it possible to initialize a softraid RAID-1 setup on 2 drives, one of > which has existing data? Is it a matter of mirroring one drive to the other > and then running mdadm or would formatting and starting from scratch be a > better/easier option? Obviously it would be nice to not have to format... I don't believe that it is possible. Assuming you have data on sda1 and wish to mirror to sdb1, here are the steps I have used in the past: * step one, make sure you have a full backup of your data on external device * create a degraded RAID1 (single device using sdb1) * mirror your data manually (I use tar) from sda1 to your raid device (md0 perhaps?) * mount the raid device, reboot, etc ... whatever you wish to be confident that your copy is intact (perhaps diff -rq) * once you're confident that your one-legged raid is good to go bring sda1 into the fold (used to be raidhotadd, these days it's "mdadm --manage ???") It would be good (perhaps essential?) to set the partition types on both partitions to raid autodetect. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 19:26:43 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 12 Nov 2006 14:26:43 -0500 Subject: Mythtv and Bell Expressvu for condos-vdsl channel tuning In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611042312t185b8d77pef247d73419af707-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611042312t185b8d77pef247d73419af707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You can get a blaster here: http://www.mytvstore.com/product_id_005.html "Dave Germiquet" writes: > I hear mythtv can use HD digital boxes... and use firewire instead of Ir > blasters.. > thats something to look into > > On 11/5/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > > > As some of you know I been having some channel tuning problems. > > Because the Mythtv and Hauppage themselves alone cannot change the > > channels on some set-top cable boxes. > > (Motorola may refer to it as DCT2500, or very similar) > > The RG-2400V DCT2500 seems to be relatively common. > > The RG-2400V that Bell provides seems to require an IRblaster > > > > Until I can find an IR blaster that will work for the RG-2400V/Hauppage > > PVR-250, > > I seem to have found something that seems to work. > > > > What is it? > > The AUTOTUNE capabilities of the Bell ExpressVu for Condos. > > The autotune works because it is the RG2400V cable box that has been > > programmed to change the channel, > > and it does automatically changes the channel 2 minutes before an > > AUTOTUNE SCHEDULE is due to start. > > And since MythTV is always on channel 13, then it works! > > I still cannot use "Program Guide" of course. > > > > --------------------------------------- > > I have to MANUALLY SCHEDULE the mythtv default's "channel 13" at day X, > > time Y, for Z minutes to match the AUTOTUNE schedule. > > (either a one-time or re-occurring recording) > > --------------------------------------- > > > > The nice part of this, is I believe the AUTOTUNE will work on each of > > the 3 TV stations that VDSL uses. > > In this case channels 3,8 and 13. In other words I believe I could built > > 3 Mythtv box's and use AUTOTUNE > > to record 3 programs at once. > > > > I am not sure if other VDSL/cable set-box's have AUTOTUNE or the > > equivalent built into their systems, > > but it would be a good bet that they do. > > > > Now, I just schedule MythTV to match the AUTOTUNE summary page. > > AUTOTUNE can do a one time or based on a schedule. (Just make sure you > > AUTOTUNE only only programs in the future. > > If you do it for the current time slot, autotune is greyed out. > > > > I will still get an IR-blaster for the RG-2400V, but only when I find > > one that will work. > > I was told today at the KnoppMyth event that the "us-cable" setting > > works for Rogers cable. Must be nice :) > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 20:47:42 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:47:42 -0500 Subject: monitor support sought Message-ID: any ideas where I might find two somethings like this http://ergoboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56 without spending an arm AND a leg ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 21:35:19 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:35:19 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: this resent using another email address, cause I got too many of them; djp On 12/11/06, David J Patrick wrote: > Hi y'all ! > last night's New to ubuntu workshop was a delight, by all accounts. > see; http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/784 > with photos to follow. > and we'd like to schedule a workshop for EXERY Saturday afternoon, > from 5pm to 7pm, with optional discussion groups afterwards. David > Sullivan did a bang up job and has agreed that New2Ubuntu should be a > regular (monthly ?) thing. > > There are lots of interesting, talented folk around, with something to say. > here's a few workshop ideas, that are brewing; > > -Multimedia, codecs and music production > -Inkscape and the Gimp > -shell scripting recipes with your favorite cryptic cruciverbalist. (hi Chris !) > -MythTV / roll your own PVR > -FLOSS Advocacy for Canadian institutions > -Unix Security or Lack Thereof > -How to Work with the Windows World > -Using Openoffice.org > > anything strike your fancy ? > > any other Ideas ? > > thanks, see you some Saturday, > djp > > - > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 21:38:43 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:38:43 -0500 Subject: monitor support sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45579463.7050304@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > any ideas where I might find two somethings like this > http://ergoboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56 > without spending an arm AND a leg ? > djp > Well, Googling on "Articulating CRT arm" turns up several hits, such as -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: james.knott.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 234 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 22:26:51 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:26:51 -0500 Subject: Thanks to all! (was: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer) In-Reply-To: <4553C620.6000104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45579FAB.4040800@alteeve.com> Thanks to all who provided links and code snippets. I've now got a working copy of the website I am working on up and running on Debian/Apache2/PHP4/MySQL4. Something of a pain, mind you, but I am now underway, so I am happy. You all are very generous with your time and knowledge, and very kind. :) Madi (who is scampering off to work) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 12 23:03:05 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:03:05 -0500 Subject: Thanks to all! (was: PHP tutorial for a perl programmer) In-Reply-To: <45579FAB.4040800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> <45579FAB.4040800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611121503t67184c83k59e585619acecc02@mail.gmail.com> On 11/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks to all who provided links and code snippets. I've now got a > working copy of the website I am working on up and running on > Debian/Apache2/PHP4/MySQL4. Something of a pain, mind you, but I am now > underway, so I am happy. > > You all are very generous with your time and knowledge, and very kind. :) Agreed, most assuredly. > Madi (who is scampering off to work) For those not "scampering off to work," I would hope you realize that involvement in communal conversations is truly another form of work. Perhaps some might flag me as a troll for saying so, hopefully not but, these conversations/communications are vital to those of us working both for the community and for our employers. Those of us trying to build bridges - as it were. I didn't have anything specific to add to the thread, but still found it educational. Best of luck Digimer. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 00:36:41 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:36:41 -0500 Subject: Net Neutrality - Canadian Stylez Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611121636i12ad4019s2ddb0feeed6795e4@mail.gmail.com> Please take a look at http://www.neutrality.ca/ if you're interested in sending a message to your web-based consumers. Several banners are available. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 00:36:21 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:36:21 -0500 Subject: Thanks to all! In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611121503t67184c83k59e585619acecc02-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4553C620.6000104@alteeve.com> <45579FAB.4040800@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0611121503t67184c83k59e585619acecc02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4557BE05.1030108@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Thanks to all who provided links and code snippets. I've now got a >> working copy of the website I am working on up and running on >> Debian/Apache2/PHP4/MySQL4. Something of a pain, mind you, but I am now >> underway, so I am happy. >> >> You all are very generous with your time and knowledge, and very kind. :) > > Agreed, most assuredly. > >> Madi (who is scampering off to work) > > For those not "scampering off to work," I would hope you realize that > involvement in communal conversations is truly another form of work. > Perhaps some might flag me as a troll for saying so, hopefully not > but, these conversations/communications are vital to those of us > working both for the community and for our employers. Those of us > trying to build bridges - as it were. > > I didn't have anything specific to add to the thread, but still found > it educational. > > Best of luck Digimer. > Well, to me it's a good point, and one I agree with fully. From BBS days until now, I have been a member of some form of techy clot or another and by and far the most important part was the exchange of ideas. Grant it, I may be charged with being biased for often being on the receiving end of that information, but I still think it holds true. A "community", be it a neighborhood or a LUG like this thrives when we each help the other out. When you add to a given community a purpose, like how our collective purpose is the advancement of FOSS, people like Scott, myself and many others on this list who "interface" with the mainstream, corporate world, have a big job to do. People in our position require this community to help push our collective goal into the minds of our bosses and clients. I also didn't have much to add, but wanted to say my piece. I know that I have won over to Linux/FOSS several people now, from home users to small business owners, and it is very much thanks to the people on lists like this taking the time to help me out. I am quite sure the same is true of many others here, too. Night all (I *really* need to stop procrastinating... *sigh*) Madi PS - See you at the pegasoft get-together Thursday, Scott!) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 01:23:40 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:23:40 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> Message-ID: <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> Dave Sullivan wrote: > Someone (I didn't catch his name) spoke with me after the workshop last > night and asked if I'd be interested in hosting an intermediate > workshop. Do you think there's interest/demand for that? He wanted to > discuss more low-level things, such as devices and CLI stuff. > At what point does this overlap with NewTLUG (the Toronto Linux User Group - new users SIG)? We have regular presentations on CLI, interesting tools (last month I gave a presentation on the file synchronization program Unison and Gerry Singleton from the OpenOffice team gave a demo of its new features). TLUG has already recently done a MythTV workshop. I'm all for increasing the general amount of awareness, but would prefer to keep the amount of gratuitous wheel reinvention to a minimum. There's relatively little in "new to Ubuntu" that isn't applicable to "new to Linux". Perhaps, if the interest exists, I would like to suggest to maintain the Linuxcaffe workshops as perhaps applicable to the very newest -- curious to FOSS, just installing or just installed -- and think of NewTLUG as a slightly higher level (ie, "OK, I have it installed and going, what kind of neat things can I do with it?") Initial questions -- especially related to hardware support, installation and initial setup -- tend to be distro-specific, but the slightly-more-advanced stuff strikes me as completely distro-neutral and perhaps worth of separate treatment. That way, the Toronto area might be served multiple ways by its users with no redundancy: absolute beginners -- Ubuntu workshops intermediate -- NewTLUG advanced/developers -- TLUG - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 01:52:46 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:52:46 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <4557C91C.2020007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990611121752t57bc91f4gc5ae6a58ee82d3da@mail.gmail.com> On 11/12/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > That way, the Toronto area might be served multiple ways by its users > with no redundancy: > absolute beginners -- Ubuntu workshops > intermediate -- NewTLUG > advanced/developers -- TLUG I'm confused. I thought newtlug existed as a political and regional separation from "tlug" [gtalug] There is no overlap between the different groups. There's no reason to avoid any topic which may or may not be occasionally covered by an existing user group. I also argue that for this reason there's no need for the workshops at the cafe to shy away from or steer towards any particular topic or style of presentation just because there are usergroups who may or may not cover them. Personally, I could go for a Gimp workshop, if only because I think it's outrageously and unnecessarily convoluted; try making a background transparent. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 03:03:34 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:03:34 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <4557C91C.2020007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061113030334.GB25674@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 08:23:40PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Perhaps, if the interest exists, I would like to suggest to maintain the > Linuxcaffe workshops as perhaps applicable to the very newest -- curious > to FOSS, just installing or just installed -- and think of NewTLUG as a > slightly higher level (ie, "OK, I have it installed and going, what kind > of neat things can I do with it?") Initial questions -- especially > related to hardware support, installation and initial setup -- tend to > be distro-specific, but the slightly-more-advanced stuff strikes me as > completely distro-neutral and perhaps worth of separate treatment. I'd figure that Linux Cafe, because of its limited size, is better suited to smaller topics. That often would mean a specialized advanced topic that not many people are ready to work with at the same time. (Just as at University you find introductory undergrad courses that have hundreds in the same class, and later get to post-grad course that have sometimes fewer than ten in a class.) But the Cafe is a commercial venture and has to choose, in part, based on what will make a sufficient profit to keep the enterprise going, which might conflict sometimes with the *TLUG activities. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 02:26:01 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:26:01 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <20061113030334.GB25674-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> <20061113030334.GB25674@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611121826g5ebe4a10u7c2e5264920b42da@mail.gmail.com> On 11/12/06, John Macdonald wrote: > But the Cafe is a commercial venture and has to choose, in > part, based on what will make a sufficient profit to keep > the enterprise going, which might conflict sometimes with > the *TLUG activities. This is true, and since as a voting member I nominated DJP for the GTALUG board, I would expect David to be able to bridge any proprietary/open alternative gaps available to him, I really don't see this as a problem. Except in a national sense. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 03:42:48 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:42:48 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> =) Signatures. What's your favorite?! ? -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 04:07:10 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:07:10 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4557EF6E.5070801@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > =) > > Signatures. What's your favorite?! > > ? > "Constructive self delusion" - heard a guest say it on CBC radio years ago... thought it was brilliant and terribly accurate. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 04:13:20 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:13:20 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/12/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > =) > > Signatures. What's your favorite?! I have a cast of, erm, thousands... egrep '^%' ~/etc/linuxcookies | wc -l 1647 Plenty, plenty of them... -- let name="cbbrowne" and tld="gmail.com" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];; http://linuxdatabases.info/info/wp.html "So, when you typed in the date, it exploded into a sheet of blue flame and burned the entire admin wing to the ground? Yes, that's a known bug. We'll be fixing it in the next release. Until then, try not to use European date format, and keep an extinguisher handy." -- slam-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tequila Rapide) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 04:14:49 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:14:49 -0500 Subject: OT -- For Fun Message-ID: <4557F139.5070503@rogers.com> I like / use this one a lot: ?The cost of viruses is higher than the revenue generated by the company that sells the Petri dish.? -- Scott McNealy John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 04:24:20 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:24:20 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <4557EF6E.5070801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <4557EF6E.5070801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I like this one: "Oooh, the Internet comes on computers now!" -- Homer Simpson pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 05:17:11 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:17:11 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <20061113030334.GB25674-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> <20061113030334.GB25674@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1163395031.6542.137.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-12-11 at 22:03 -0500, John Macdonald wrote: > I'd figure that Linux Cafe, because of its limited size, > is better suited to smaller topics. That often would mean > a specialized advanced topic that not many people are ready > to work with at the same time. I disagree, slightly. "smaller groups" yes. But I feel this is ideal for very introductory level coaching. Perhaps one to one? Often the newest users don't know how to ask a question in the Linux context. With a smaller group the presentation can be more interactive (more like a discussion). This can sort out issues like "share folders? Oh you want to google samba." On the other hand, I did see David shoe-horn 18 folks (in two groups) into the cafe. It just may be that he's warping space-time. But that's an issue for Toronto Temporal Bylaw officers, not this list. > But the Cafe is a commercial venture and has to choose, in > part, based on what will make a sufficient profit to keep > the enterprise going, which might conflict sometimes with > the *TLUG activities. I don't see a conflict. Are Linux resources so thin in Toronto that a 10 to 20 person presentation in a nice cafe will prevent attendance at a similar presentation at TLUG? What I do see is an opportunity. Do you think any of your members light like to present a topic to a smaller group first, before tackling the larger group? You might even get some new presenters by offering them a smaller group to start with. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 05:27:42 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:27:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > =) > > Signatures. What's your favorite?! > > ? There are a lot I like, but here are a few: Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil? Cthulhu Saves (in case he gets hungry later) 186,000 mps: It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW Unfortunately, Albert, God DOES play dice with the universe Brain damage is what we were after...chromosome damage was just gravy 668--the Neighbor of the Beast -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 05:52:39 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:52:39 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <4557C91C.2020007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> Message-ID: <45580827.5010300@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Dave Sullivan wrote: >> Someone (I didn't catch his name) spoke with me after the workshop last >> night and asked if I'd be interested in hosting an intermediate >> workshop. Do you think there's interest/demand for that? He wanted to >> discuss more low-level things, such as devices and CLI stuff. >> > At what point does this overlap with NewTLUG (the Toronto Linux User > Group - new users SIG)? > We have regular presentations on CLI, interesting tools (last month I > gave a presentation on the file synchronization program Unison and Gerry > Singleton from the OpenOffice team gave a demo of its new features). > TLUG has already recently done a MythTV workshop. Perhaps 3 Drupal sites using the drupal ID system would get each group communicating with the others. RSS feeds from each group, syndication and all that, really nifty and useful in this context I think. > I'm all for increasing the general amount of awareness, but would prefer > to keep the amount of gratuitous wheel reinvention to a minimum. There's > relatively little in "new to Ubuntu" that isn't applicable to "new to > Linux". I haven't the wheels to make it up to Steeles. I haven't looked into the TTC though, haven't had to. > Perhaps, if the interest exists, I would like to suggest to maintain the > Linuxcaffe workshops as perhaps applicable to the very newest -- curious > to FOSS, just installing or just installed -- and think of NewTLUG as a > slightly higher level (ie, "OK, I have it installed and going, what kind > of neat things can I do with it?") Initial questions -- especially > related to hardware support, installation and initial setup -- tend to > be distro-specific, but the slightly-more-advanced stuff strikes me as > completely distro-neutral and perhaps worth of separate treatment. > > That way, the Toronto area might be served multiple ways by its users > with no redundancy: > absolute beginners -- Ubuntu workshops > intermediate -- NewTLUG > advanced/developers -- TLUG And for each and every meetup of whichever group, someone can use a program like screenkast or xvidcap to post videos, perhaps record audio as well. That way everyone has access to everyone else's material. Demo of the video module for Drupal here: http://www.varesano.net/video-demo/ Call me crazy... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 05:17:48 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:17:48 -0500 Subject: OT -- For Fun In-Reply-To: <4557F139.5070503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4557F139.5070503@rogers.com> Message-ID: nice On 11/12/06, John McGregor wrote: > I like / use this one a lot: > > "The cost of viruses is higher than the revenue generated by the company > that sells the Petri dish." -- Scott McNealy > > John > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 06:47:40 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:47:40 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <20061113052742.6486.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14@mail.gmail.com> On 11/13/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil? > > Cthulhu Saves (in case he gets hungry later) > > 186,000 mps: It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW > > Unfortunately, Albert, God DOES play dice with the > universe > > Brain damage is what we were after...chromosome damage > was just gravy > > 668--the Neighbor of the Beast LOL - Hrmmm.. I'd have a hard time choosing between Einstein and Cthulu for sure. Cthulu (or Einstein!) for president! =) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 11:24:31 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 13 Nov 2006 06:24:31 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Scott Elcomb" writes: > LOL - Hrmmm.. I'd have a hard time choosing between Einstein and > Cthulu for sure. > > Cthulu (or Einstein!) for president! =) Not a hard choice; Einstein is dead and he already refused the presidency of Israel. My favourites are: "It is best to keep your mouth shut and be presumed ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt." - Samuel Clemens "I won't belong to any organization that would have me as a member." "I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury." - Groucho Marx "A meeting is an event where minutes are taken and hours wasted." - James T. Kirk "We're a web nothing! Baby seals get more hits!" - BOFH "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire "Specialisation is for insects!" - Robert Heinlein "The best size for a committee is three, with two of the members dead." - Don't know who said this one. "I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated" - okay, maybe this isn't a real quote... -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 12:16:19 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:16:19 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45586213.8070900@luckdancing.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > >"I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated" > - okay, maybe this isn't a real quote... > > > "I yam Popeye O'borg - yez will be askimigulated" Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 13:01:45 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:01:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <45586213.8070900-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <45586213.8070900@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <20061113130145.5422.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rob Sutherland wrote: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > >"I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated" > > - okay, maybe this isn't a real quote... > > > > > > > "I yam Popeye O'borg - yez will be askimigulated" I am Boris of Borg. Moose and squirrel are irrelevent. I am Bart of Borg. Assimilate my shorts, man.... I am Homer of Borg. Prepare to be assimi...oooh, donuts! Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 13:06:04 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:06:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <20061113130145.5422.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061113130145.5422.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061113130604.21833.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Rob Sutherland wrote: > > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > >"I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be > laminated" > > > - okay, maybe this isn't a real quote... > > > > > > > > > > > "I yam Popeye O'borg - yez will be askimigulated" > > I am Boris of Borg. Moose and squirrel are > irrelevent. > I am Bart of Borg. Assimilate my shorts, man.... > I am Homer of Borg. Prepare to be assimi...oooh, > donuts! We are Microsoft. OS/2 is irrelevant. UNIX is irrelevant. Openness is futile. Prepare to be assimilated. We are Pentium of Borg. You will be approximated. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 13:17:52 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 13 Nov 2006 08:17:52 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <45586213.8070900-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14@mail.gmail.com> <45586213.8070900@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: Rob Sutherland writes: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > >"I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated" > > - okay, maybe this isn't a real quote... > > > > "I yam Popeye O'borg - yez will be askimigulated" "I em svedeesh cheff ooff burg. Yuoo veell be-a esseemileted. Bork Bork Bork!" Or maybe just: "I em svdeesh cheff ooff bork. You veell be-a bork bork borked!" -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 13:37:53 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:37:53 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe workskop ideas In-Reply-To: <4557C91C.2020007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1163367848.8191.8.camel@nebula> <4557C91C.2020007@telly.org> Message-ID: On 12/11/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > At what point does this overlap with NewTLUG (the Toronto Linux User > Group - new users SIG)? Maybe a fair bit, but I really see it as a cross-promotional opportunity, not competition. NewTLUG meetings feature really interesting topics, and a warm, fun, open atmosphere. I've only been to a handful of gatherings, and I highly recommend it. but personally, I find the location(s) daunting. > We have regular presentations on CLI, interesting tools (last month I > gave a presentation on the file synchronization program Unison and Gerry > Singleton from the OpenOffice team gave a demo of its new features). I saw these coming up and kicked myself 'cause I couldn't go. It wouldn't be a bad thing if these topics we explored again and again, here and there. It's not like we're gonna run outta newbies OR hardcore geeks. > TLUG has already recently done a MythTV workshop. which I was proud to promote on the front page of my website for a week ! I would have liked to attend that one, too, but does that mean the MythTV this is, like, done ? like, there's nobody else who would attend such a thing for, like 6 months, or something ? If linuxcaffe were to put on an excellent MythTV workshop, with maybe some video and podcasting, would that detract in any way from the next time NewTLUG (or Colin) wants to do something like it ? I don't think so. We should be bouncing speakers and topics between groups, deliberately increasing awareness of the topical and geographical diversity, and bringing activity to every level of user, in every part of the city, not trying to carve up the market. Hundreds, if not thousands of people have learned of the existence of linux from this goofy little open source obsessed coffee shop. I fully intend to continue explorations and celebrations of the theme, and to help raise awareness of the diverse related communities. Successful activities at linuxcaffe will promote NewTLUG (TLUG, KWLUG, PyGTA etc.) user groups, not detract from them. > > > Perhaps, if the interest exists, I would like to suggest to maintain the > Linuxcaffe workshops as perhaps applicable to the very newest -- curious > to FOSS, just installing or just installed -- Uhh sorry, no can do. linuxcaffe is swarming with n00bs, true, but we are also frequented scores of professional coders, a handful of CompSci luminaries. and lots and lots of folks who have no idea what linux is about. We will be doing workshops on a wide range of subjects, and I sincerely hope that it won't be seen as "cutting anybodies grass". and think of NewTLUG as a > slightly higher level. but you welcome both total n00bs and seasoned Sysadmins, right ? me too ! > > That way, the Toronto area might be served multiple ways by its users > with no redundancy: but haven't we learned from our hardware setups that redundancy is a good thing ? > absolute beginners -- Ubuntu workshops > intermediate -- NewTLUG > advanced/developers -- TLUG interesting on first blush, but my experience belies this arrangement as each above mentioned group already has something to offer each level of user. To tell an intermediate user that his/her level is served only in North York, or Markham, seems disingenuous. Conversely, to tell a new convert, or long time Unix administrator, who lives on Steeles, that the right place for him/her to meet is downtown, doesn't ring true, either. Primary focus for a group is a good thing, but I feel strongly that as this big wave of open source adoption comes crashing in, that we had all better get inclusive and co-operative. This iceberg is big enough for all of us penguins, we just need to get better at huddling together. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 14:38:03 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:38:03 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0611121942u168c8294u8d278e7e423b7e8@mail.gmail.com> <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f0611122247v5070305r60c2e82583f08f14@mail.gmail.com> <45586213.8070900@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611130638s1695de66ne167b6945a7feb39@mail.gmail.com> How could this be a problem in a country where we have Intel and Microsoft? - Al Gore on Y2K Or, relevant to an earlier thread: Everything that can be invented has been invented. - Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899 http://jrandomhacker.info/Taglines http://jrandomhacker.info/Soulful_quotes I've got a couple of hundred others hanging around in an offline database. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 15:34:41 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:34:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Technical support in Toronto In-Reply-To: <20061110091857.33898.qmail-oJNNZefkkGSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061110091857.33898.qmail@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061113153441.97302.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Is there a good technical support for open source in Toronto? Some one who can setup and troubleshoot samba, mail server (MTA, imap/pop, webmail), DNS and apache. TIA EK --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 15:40:47 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:40:47 -0500 Subject: Technical support in Toronto In-Reply-To: <20061113153441.97302.qmail-XaYfPTZAAdSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061113153441.97302.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061113104047.d7x0m91xalwcwgss@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> Most people on this list can assist you. don't know of a particular organzation that does support, (IE nerds on Site) cheers, Alain Quoting E K : > Hi all, > > Is there a good technical support for open source in Toronto? Some > one who can setup and troubleshoot samba, mail server (MTA, imap/pop, > webmail), DNS and apache. > > TIA > EK > > > --------------------------------- > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 15:53:27 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:53:27 -0500 Subject: Sun, GPL2, Java, hooray Message-ID: <455894F7.7010307@utoronto.ca> Google News: http://tinyurl.com/yctoom Live event coverage: http://www.sun.com/2006-1113/feature/index.jsp And it looks like Stallman will be present by video feed for the official announcement: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=199 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 16:20:41 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:20:41 -0500 Subject: Technical support in Toronto Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A332C@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Mon Nov 13 10:34:41 2006 Subject: [TLUG]: Technical support in Toronto Hi all, Is there a good technical support for open source in Toronto? Some one who can setup and troubleshoot samba, mail server (MTA, imap/pop, webmail), DNS and apache. TIA EK ________________________________ Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 16:46:57 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:46:57 -0500 Subject: Technical support in Toronto In-Reply-To: <20061113153441.97302.qmail-XaYfPTZAAdSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061110091857.33898.qmail@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> <20061113153441.97302.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611130846y3e7787e3w38efe92e919ec783@mail.gmail.com> On 11/13/06, E K wrote: > Is there a good technical support for open source in Toronto? Some one who > can setup and troubleshoot samba, mail server (MTA, imap/pop, webmail), DNS > and apache. There are lots of people on this list who are consultants. You can also check out: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Consultants -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 16:47:49 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:47:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Technical support in Toronto In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A332C-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A332C@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <20061113164749.3932.qmail@web61313.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Dave, Can you send me your bio, your rates and your availability. Equbay Dave Bour wrote: Re: [TLUG]: Technical support in Toronto Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Mon Nov 13 10:34:41 2006 Subject: [TLUG]: Technical support in Toronto Hi all, Is there a good technical support for open source in Toronto? Some one who can setup and troubleshoot samba, mail server (MTA, imap/pop, webmail), DNS and apache. TIA EK ________________________________ Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 18:01:03 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:01:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Next meeting Message-ID: Hi all. I'm proposing something a bit different for tomorrow's meeting. I'd like us to try out a tutorial format. This is something I've wanted to try for a while and for various reasons it looks like this is a great time to try it. The idea would be that people would present Linux related technical questions to the group who could then discuss possible solutions. This is the way Unix Unanimous works of course (with a more general Unix focus) and is also somewhat common in other user groups. Tell me what you all think? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 18:07:25 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:07:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upcoming talks Message-ID: Hi all. Well it's time to arrange talks for December 2006 and beyond. All spots are open at the moment. I'd like to trial a tutorial format for the November 2006 meeting and want to even run a debate for one meeting in the future. I organised a debate for another user group once and it was a lot of fun for all involved. So if you have a burning desire to talk at GTALUG please contact me and nominate 2 or 3 preferred dates. For reference here are the next few meeting dates: 12 Dec 2006 9 Jan 2007 13 Feb 2007 13 Mar 2007 10 Apr 2007 8 May 2007 Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 22:28:31 2006 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:28:31 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card Message-ID: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now the PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get a console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to this point. If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a removable drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz speed. Any helpful tips would be appreciated. Thanks, John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 13 22:53:42 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:42 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card In-Reply-To: <4558F18F.9060303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4558F776.9080509@utoronto.ca> John M. Moniz wrote: > I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now the > PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get a > console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need > installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX > motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II > 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to > this point. > > If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I > plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a removable > drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz speed. > > Any helpful tips would be appreciated. Tried it with a livecd? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 01:56:17 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:56:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > This is a super idea. We have often done something like this for > December meetings. The MAJOR thing that needs to be done is to assign > someone to be the moderator, to ensure it doesn't descend into any > sort of chaos. GTALUG descend into chaos??? Never!!! ;) Ok, let's go with a tutorial style session... Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 15:29:03 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:29:03 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge Message-ID: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Hi I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. apt-cache pkgnames --installed less /var/lib/dpkg/available dpkg -l Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed packages. How do I show only the installed packages? Thanks in advance. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 20:33:32 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:33:32 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card In-Reply-To: <4558F18F.9060303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1163622812.17936.0.camel@neo> ? ???, 13/11/2006 ? 17:28 -0500, John M. Moniz ?????: > I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now the > PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get a > console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need > installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX > motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II > 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to > this point. > > If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I > plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a removable > drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz speed. > Hi John, A trace from the lspci and dmesg, at the time of connecting usb device would be helpful. There may well be some sort of conflict... cheers, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 16:15:13 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:15:13 -0500 Subject: Upcoming talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611150815t4c757e73o9afa441a98ff840e@mail.gmail.com> On 11/13/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Well it's time to arrange talks for December 2006 and beyond. > All spots are open at the moment. If anyone out there is experienced with maintaining a project using CVS (at Sourceforge) and willing to do a presentation on it, I can gaurantee I'll be there. This is one of the spots I'm quite weak in and need some help on. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 18:05:42 2006 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:05:42 -0500 Subject: FYI: Ballmer on Novell, Linux and patents (Seattle Post-Intelligencer) Message-ID: <1bb290611171005v2a016c8doe5a3f120a6bc245f@mail.gmail.com> Ballmer was responding to a question at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) summit in Seattle. Comment and full transcript (and mp3) by Todd Bishop, P-I reporter http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/108806.asp Cheers, Simone -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 01:14:02 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:14:02 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? Message-ID: <20061116011402.GA18817@waltdnes.org> I'd like to record HDTV off the air. I've got an HDTV tuner hooked up to my 19" NTSC TV. The picture quality is stunning, even on an analog TV. I'm looking at getting a real HDTV after the Superbowl, as prices continue to slide. So my question is... can I buy a ready-to-go PVR that works out-of-the-box? I'm not picky, as long as it doesn't involve a subscription, like TIVO. I want to be in control of my own destiny. I won't be connecting to the internet with it, so even Windows is safe (I did say I wasn't picky). I would prefer linux with MythTV or whatever, but I'm getting too lazy to "enjoy the adventure" of building my own, and I'm willing to pay extra to have it ready to go. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 05:50:33 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:50:33 -0500 Subject: Off-list: Re: Free and Cheap LPI exams in Toronto Message-ID: On 08 Nov 2006 16:49:34 -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi everyone, > > LPI is in the process of 'beta testing' the new Level 3 (enterprise) > certification until the end of the year and I'm organizing an exam lab for > anyone that is interested. > > The free exams are the level 3 ones. Details on the first two exams that > are > being released are at: > > https://group.lpi.org/cgi-bin/publicwiki/view/Examdev/LPIC-3 > > and instructions for exam takers are at: > > https://group.lpi.org/publicwiki/pub/Examdev/LPIC-3/l3_instructions.pdf > > > The cheap exams are the LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 (level 1 and level 2) exams. They > will be $50CAD (as opposed to the usual $150USD+GST). Details on those > exams > are on the regular lpi.org web site at: > > http://www.lpi.org/en/lpi/english/certification/the_lpic_program > > > The exam lab is goin to be held at: > > Date: Dec 2, 2006 (Saturday) > Time: 9:00am - 4:00pm > Location: 116 Industry St., Toronto > > Level 1 and 2 exams are 90 minutes each. Level 3 exams are 180 minutes each > (with a break at the halfway mark). > > If anyone is interested, please send me an e-mail to confirm or get > additional information. Also, even if you aren't certain that you can pass > the level 3 exams, it's worth a shot. a) they're free, b) if you fail, > you can have them removed from your records (ie. no penalty for failing) and > c) you don't have to take the LPI exams in order so why not go for the > freebie. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > Cool. Do you have anything not on a Saturday? Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 19:56:52 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:56:52 -0500 Subject: FYI: Ballmer on Novell, Linux and patents (Seattle Post-Intelligencer) In-Reply-To: <1bb290611171005v2a016c8doe5a3f120a6bc245f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1bb290611171005v2a016c8doe5a3f120a6bc245f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1163793412.3882.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> "the fact that that product uses our patented intellectual property is a problem for our shareholders. We spend $7 billion a year on R&D, our shareholders expect us to protect or license or get economic benefit from our patented innovations. So how do we somehow get the appropriate economic return for our patented innovation, and how do we do interoperability." -- Steve Ballmer Sounds like SCO (a crock) all over again. I'd like to see postings of the code which he is referring...since it is freely available 'open source' after all. RickT "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Fri, 2006-11-17 at 13:05 -0500, Simone Richard wrote: > Ballmer was responding to a question at the Professional Association > for SQL Server (PASS) summit in Seattle. > > Comment and full transcript (and mp3) by Todd Bishop, P-I reporter > http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/108806.asp > > Cheers, > Simone > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 18 19:52:01 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:52:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Hilarious plagiate of the real thing Message-ID: Note: this is in German. Entwickler in German == Developer in English. The company that is advertising for developers is into FOSS applications. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLAiug4Onw Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 03:42:37 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:42:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Misc. Follow-ups Message-ID: <20061116034237.97589.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note, at last evening's meeting, I was attempting to figure out if I should do the whole Unix Unanimous thing. While sorting that out I know things were a bit ragged, and sorry about that. At the pub after the meeting I and a few other people were attempting to remember the name of the first on-screen James Bond in the first screen adaptation of an Ian Flemming novel. The first James Bond on screen was in Casino Royal, but nobody at the table could remember the actor, So, a quick search at home, and it turns out the first screen James Bond was Barry Nelson. Lest anyone not believe the above have a look at: us.imdb.com/title/tt0310853/ This weekend will see the release of the 3rd Casino Royal adaptation (the second having had David Niven as Sir James Bond)... I also noted my interest in doing a garden shed made to look like a Mk.2 London Metropolitain Police Box (better known as looking like a TARDIS, the combination spacecraft/time machine seen in the TV show "Doctor Who"). Any event among the resources to be found on the net can be found a TARDIS construction guide: homepages.paradise.net.nz/~trekker/policeboxes/myplans.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 19:32:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:32:23 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20061114193223.GJ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 10:29:03AM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? It shows packages in any state other than purged. rc means removed but configuration files remain. Purging the package (dpkg --purge packagename) removes the config files. You can simply do: dpkg -l |grep -v ^rc Anything that says ii is installed properly. Anything else (besides rc) could mean something is very confused (dpkg will usually let you know if this is the case). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 19 19:12:44 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:12:44 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! Message-ID: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> hi, I've just finally become a cell phone user for the first time. I have a cheap motorola phone with bluetooth, the v551 (rogers is the carrier). For the last little while I've kept my address book in evolution, synced to my pda through pilot-link. that works pretty well. now I'm finding I have to re-enter all my phone numbers into the phone b/c I have no idea how to interface it with evolution or, indeed, with my computer at all. I assume I just have to somehow get a bluetooth connection and make them talk, and that this is somehow possible. I assume that other people have some way of dealing with this situation. so, is there some way to sync my phone to evolution, and to my pda, in a manner that won't end up generating all kind of duplicate entries in all of the above (duplicate entries is my main problem with the pda <--> evolution setup I already have)? If someone knows the answer I'd love to hear it! thanks as always, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 15:27:38 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:27:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20061116152738.45787.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> use dpkg -l | grep '^i' EK Meng Cheah wrote: Hi I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. apt-cache pkgnames --installed less /var/lib/dpkg/available dpkg -l Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed packages. How do I show only the installed packages? Thanks in advance. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 21:52:15 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:52:15 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - Atomic OS - Tomorrow Message-ID: <1163627535.3919.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 7:00 pm. Location: Linux Caffe Topic: Atomic OS Scott Elcomb will be presenting a talk on the Atomic OS project. Using a web browser, Atomic OS emulates/provides standard operating system features including a command-line shell, interpreter, filesystem, database access and GUI services. Plus the usual open forum on Linux news, projects and problems. Attendance is free. Send a confirmation to Ken Burtch (http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html) to reserve your seat. For more information about PegaSoft events, visit http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html. Join our low-volume mailing list at http://www.pegasoft.ca/mailing_lists.html. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 19 21:49:53 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:49:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora Core 6 updates are voluminous Message-ID: I keep a copy of Fedora updates for systems that I run. I just downloaded all the FC6 updates for i386, x86_64, and the source RPMs. Not including the debugging symbols. They are huge: $ du 3968 ./i386/repodata 8 ./i386/debug 1793788 ./i386 4652 ./x86_64/repodata 8 ./x86_64/debug 1420688 ./x86_64 736 ./SRPMS/repodata 1200728 ./SRPMS 4415212 . This says something about FC6, but I don't know what. Very actively updated? Full of bugs that needed fixing? Released before ready? A du on just x86_64 reports 2127388 blocks so there is a lot of sharing (using hard links) between the two architectures updates. The updates include (all of?) Open Office. This is 32-bit only so is shared. There is a lot (perhaps all) of KDE that has been updated. It feels like time for a respin of the release disks. The updates for i386 would fill three CDs. For x86_64: 4 cds. The original release for i386 was only 5 CDs (plus a rescue CD). I've actually only tried to install FC6 on one machine. The installation hung very late in the install. But then again Ubuntu 6.10 and 6.06 installations hung too. The fix for Ubuntu (and I would guess, for FC6) was to unplug the added video card, install, then add the video card back. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 18 19:38:01 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:38:01 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? Message-ID: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> I'd like to record HDTV off the air. I've got an HDTV tuner hooked up to my 19" NTSC TV. The picture quality is stunning, even on an analog TV. I'm looking at getting a real HDTV after the Superbowl, as prices continue to slide. So my question is... can I buy an HDTV VCR or a ready-to-go HDTV PVR that works out-of-the-box? I'm not picky, as long as it doesn't involve a subscription, like TIVO. I want to be in control of my own destiny. I won't be connecting to the internet with it, so even Windows is safe (I did say I wasn't picky). I would prefer linux with MythTV or whatever, but I'm getting too lazy to "enjoy the adventure" of building my own, and I'm willing to pay extra to have it ready to go. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 05:48:21 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:48:21 -0500 Subject: Willing to speak to Seneca Linux Club? (was: Re: Upcoming talks) Message-ID: On 11/13/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Well it's time to arrange talks for December 2006 and beyond. [snip] As well, if you are interested in giving a presentation (short or long) to the Seneca Linux Club or Club Moz or the Game Programming Club, please email me and CC Professor John Selmys, faculty representative, at john.selmys-U9NDqb625Q/o0FQpd/sbXw at public.gmane.org There are usually about ten people at each meeting, though we can put up posters. If we do, more people will come, perhaps 30 or more. We meet Mondays, Wednesdays, or Thursdays from around 5 to 7 PM. For more info on the various clubs, type their names into Google. Regards, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 16:17:37 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:17:37 -0500 Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux Message-ID: So I saw this today: http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;16;fpid;1 Just when you thought the fuss had died down... "In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux "uses our intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to "get the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation."" and "Only customers that use SUSE have paid properly for intellectual property from Microsoft," he said. "We are willing to do a deal with Red Hat and other Linux distributors." The deal with SUSE Linux "is not exclusive," Ballmer added. Outrageous. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 21:07:22 2006 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:07:22 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <455A300A.8020903@pobox.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as > removed packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? > > Thanks in advance. > > Meng Cheah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > In your first command, '--installed' is superfluous, it only modifies depends and rdepends. dpkg --get-selections: will show you everything ever installed that hasn't been purged. Just grep the output, and check the manpage for dpkg. Prefix dpkg -l with COLUMNS=200 or something for a half-sane display. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 21:30:35 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:30:35 +0000 Subject: Upcoming talks In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611150815t4c757e73o9afa441a98ff840e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611150815t4c757e73o9afa441a98ff840e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/15/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 11/13/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. Well it's time to arrange talks for December 2006 and beyond. > > All spots are open at the moment. > > If anyone out there is experienced with maintaining a project using > CVS (at Sourceforge) and willing to do a presentation on it, I can > gaurantee I'll be there. This is one of the spots I'm quite weak in > and need some help on. I'd be keener on hearing about somewhat SCM-agnostic matters, as people are considering migrations from CVS to newer SCMs like Subversion, darcs, Mercurial, git, and such. It's too bad Graydon Hoare has moved; he was one of the main developers of Monotone... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 20:53:49 2006 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:53:49 -0500 Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <20061113052742.6486.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <455A2CDD.8090404@pobox.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > 668--the Neighbor of the Beast > 29A -- the hexadecimal of the Beast -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 02:38:03 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:38:03 -0500 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45592C0B.1010100@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I'm proposing something a bit different for tomorrow's > meeting. I'd like us to try out a tutorial format. This is something > I've wanted to try for a while and for various reasons it looks like > this is a great time to try it. > > The idea would be that people would present Linux related technical > questions to the group who could then discuss possible solutions. > This is the way Unix Unanimous works of course (with a more general > Unix focus) and is also somewhat common in other user groups. > > Tell me what you all think? > > Rob > What's the topic? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 02:50:01 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:50:01 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <200611142150.01633.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 14 November 2006 10:29, Meng Cheah wrote: > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? I have always used "dpkg -l | grep ^ii" ... there might be a better way but that's always worked for me. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 17:30:35 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 16 Nov 2006 12:30:35 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: Meng Cheah writes: > Hi > > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > > How do I show only the installed packages? If I'm reading the output of "dpkg -l" correctly, you're only interested in lines where the second character is "i": dpkg -l | grep '^.i' -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 19:15:17 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:15:17 -0500 Subject: does reporting spam to services like spamcop do any good? Message-ID: <200611161415.18202.ican@netrover.com> Some of my email accounts are getting hammered by spam these days. Filtering helps but there has to be a better way. Do services like spamcop do any good? http://www.spamcop.net/ bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 02:58:39 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:58:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Starting with Unix Message-ID: <50488.207.188.66.125.1163559519.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> One of the questions that came up at the meeting this evening: Reading recommendation for a beginner to Linux? The first book I read, which I found enormously useful, was: Starting with Unix, P.J.Brown, Addison Wesley, 1984. I suspect it's out of print, but you can get it used for the princely sum of $1 plus shipping from Abebooks: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?&isbn=0201109247&nsa=1 Believe it or not, this is an entertaining read, the P.J. has a whimsical sense of humour that leavens the material. For example: 'It can now be revealed that there was a third person.. who was responsible for the original design of Unix. He is a hermit who does his very best to avoid human conversation. Because he shuns publicity his contribution to Unix has be overlooked but it was he who design nearly all the parts of Unix that interface with the user. This hermit prefers to be known... by the name 'hrmt'. Hrmt would have preferred the ls command to have had a one-character name rather than its outrageously long two-character name: his view was unfortunately overruled.' OK, it's not sidesplitting humour. But it does help turn the pages. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 12:59:34 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:59:34 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280611160459t164321c1xb95b5e0a8dc11c53@mail.gmail.com> Hi Meng. Try this: # dpkg -l | grep -v "^rc" There may be other package states this doesn't account for, but on my system the only packages that show up in the listing as uninstalled are ones that are "[R]emoved" and have "[C]onfig-files" so this trick is adequate. Another alternative that would also remove the standard header (good if you want to feed the list into another text parser) would be this: # dpkg -l | grep "^i" You might prefer this. On 11/14/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? > > Thanks in advance. > > Meng Cheah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 03:26:12 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:26:12 -0500 Subject: Looking for a real email client Message-ID: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99@mail.gmail.com> I'm hunting around for a decent replacement for Thunderbird. As always, Thunderbird is disgustingly slow. I'm looking for an email client which has: * HTML email reception * HTML email composition -- does any email client other than Thunderbird do this? Is there a way for me to compose the HTML in another applicaiton and use it / attach it for some lesser email client? * Intelligent search folders. I want the ability to leave 100% of my email in the inbox, and just have smart folders created which display that list based on certain parameters. e.g. I can have a folder which displays emails to or from a certain set of email addresses. Kmail threatens to be able to do this, but it falls flat -- I can't view the properties of a saved search, or change them. Hrmph. --+ Sylpheed-claws is nice and lean, and with the right plugin I can view HTML emails. But I'm stuck with sorting thousands of emails by hand. That's annoying. Does anyone have any ideas for an alternate? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 23:04:41 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:04:41 -0500 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> I'm certainly open to any ideas. Here's what I know so far: #1 - On boot, non-root user id/passwd that has been in use for > 1 year is not working. #2 - Using a virtual console, login as root and running passwd for the workstation id, changed passwd for workstation id. #3 - New password does _not_ work for associated id. #4 - New password _does work_ for root. I am assuming this workstation is compromised, and until resolved I will be using other hardware(s) available to me. Any suggestions, ideas, thoughts would be welcome. I really don't know how (!?!) this workstation could have been influenced by outside forces since I'm fairly certain of the integrity of at least 3 layers of security between this workstation and the internet. This includes firewall's and routers. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 04:16:58 2006 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:16:58 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card In-Reply-To: <4558F776.9080509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> <4558F776.9080509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4559433A.3060406@sympatico.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > John M. Moniz wrote: > >> I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now >> the PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get >> a console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need >> installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX >> motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II >> 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to >> this point. >> >> If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I >> plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a >> removable drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz >> speed. >> >> Any helpful tips would be appreciated. > > > Tried it with a livecd? > > Jamon It doesn't seem to have the same problem using knoppix. Any idea why the difference? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 16:31:49 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:31:49 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420611140831l50ddf809sd57ac2b3666aec16@mail.gmail.com> I had to do this on my Ubuntu system. I forget the command line I used, but I first installed apt-show-versions. When you run it, it'll give you a list of all installed packages along with the repository it came from, and the version that's installed. Ian On 11/14/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? > > Thanks in advance. > > Meng Cheah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 19:35:45 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:35:45 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10611141135j6a9cbb46qa910aa196e454c78@mail.gmail.com> On 11/14/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. > I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. > > apt-cache pkgnames --installed > less /var/lib/dpkg/available > dpkg -l > > Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? > I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed > packages. > How do I show only the installed packages? Hi Meng... Try: dpkg -l | grep ii | less -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build_it_yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 16:09:19 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:09:19 -0500 Subject: November TLUG meeting highlights Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611150809q715b41b0k30967092ae745bdc@mail.gmail.com> I was unable to make it to the meeting last night due to working late. Can anyone post highlights from last nights meetings? I had a few HOWTO questions that I wanted to ask, but I think I'll save them for the next time this format is used at a meeting. =) TIA, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 15:05:25 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:05:25 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card In-Reply-To: <4558F18F.9060303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1163603125.7265.2.camel@neo> ? ???, 13/11/2006 ? 17:28 -0500, John M. Moniz ?????: > I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now the > PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get a > console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need > installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX > motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II > 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to > this point. > > If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I > plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a removable > drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz speed. > Hi John, A trace from the lspci and dmesg, at the time of connecting usb device would be helpful. There may well be some sort of conflict... cheers, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 14:46:27 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:46:27 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers DNS Message-ID: <4386c5b20611140646q3d354482sb825257e586ae27c@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Has anyone noticed some odd DNS propagation issues with Rogers? I'm a web publisher, and lately, when I've moved domains to a different server, Rogers will update accordingly... but then, without warning switch back to the old server. This happened most recently with my personal domain, vegh.ca. To illustrate: prior to the change: odysseus:~ aaron$ dig vegh.ca ; <<>> DiG 9.2.2 <<>> vegh.ca ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 28840 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;vegh.ca. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: vegh.ca. 7687 IN A 82.165.169.31 then late yesterday (as reported from another machine in Montreal, but this is what it looked like on my host in Rogers' network): [aaron at cl-t011-030cl ~]$ dig vegh.ca ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> vegh.ca ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 34128 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;vegh.ca. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: vegh.ca. 14400 IN A 64.15.152.6 and now this morning, it's back to the first result. This is the second or third time I've seen this behaviour from Rogers. I've called their tech support about it, but without result. Anyone else seen this behaviour, or have an explanation for it? Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 23:49:28 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:49:28 +0000 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0611151549h6a7e3fbfo510ff7d2b1a63d53@mail.gmail.com> Before anyone responds as far as "trying again" - I did try this process (all 4 steps) three times before posting. I am now running off Ubuntu 6.06 live while doing research on this machine. All passwords associated with this machine have been changed. Again, I am open and receptive any and all comments/constructive criticism regarding this situation. FWIW, the affected platform is an Intel PIII running Fedora Core 1 - which (almost) obviously should have been upgraded a long time ago. - Scott. On 11/15/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'm certainly open to any ideas. Here's what I know so far: > > #1 - On boot, non-root user id/passwd that has been in use for > 1 > year is not working. > > #2 - Using a virtual console, login as root and running passwd for the > workstation id, changed passwd for workstation id. > > #3 - New password does _not_ work for associated id. > > #4 - New password _does work_ for root. > > I am assuming this workstation is compromised, and until resolved I > will be using other hardware(s) available to me. Any suggestions, > ideas, thoughts would be welcome. I really don't know how (!?!) this > workstation could have been influenced by outside forces since I'm > fairly certain of the integrity of at least 3 layers of security > between this workstation and the internet. This includes firewall's > and routers. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ > http://psema4.googlepages.com/ > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > > - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." > > - Mark Twain > -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 20:16:54 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:16:54 -0500 Subject: Smalltalk Club Message-ID: Hi All, The Beach Outings Club, a Smalltalk club, is having its last meeting of '06 next Tuesday at 6:30 pm at Paupers Pub on Bloor. There is a parking lot across the street on Lippencott. Whatever your skill level, if you are interested in Smalltalk, Squeak, or Seaside, then come out and have a beer. It's a great way to get introduced to the people who'll also be at the Smalltalk coding night. http://www.seasideparasol.com/club.html Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 06:18:26 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:18:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT]: For Fun In-Reply-To: <455A2CDD.8090404-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20061113052742.6486.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <455A2CDD.8090404@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Nov 2006, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> 668--the Neighbor of the Beast > > 29A -- the hexadecimal of the Beast The Dufferin Street bus -- apppropriately! -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 21:05:33 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:05:33 -0500 Subject: Smalltalk Club Message-ID: Hi All, The Beach Outings Club is having its last meeting of '06 next Tuesday at 6:30 pm at Paupers Pub on Bloor. There is a parking lot across the street on Lippencott. Whatever your skill level, if you are interested in Smalltalk, Squeak, or Seaside, then come out and have a beer. It's a great way to get introduced to the people who'll also be at the Smalltalk coding night. http://www.seasideparasol.com/club.html Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 16:16:01 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication Message-ID: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am trying to set up key-based SSH authentication, and I am encountering a problem. The authentication is working nicely - I made my keys and put the public keys on the servers on which I have accounts, and now I am prompted for my passphrase rather than a password, so that's all good. The thing is, once I have set up key-based authentication, I am going to want to disable password-based authentication. I'm not quite sure how to do that, and it would make me very sad if I locked myself out by mistake. I am using Debian testing and OpenSSH_4.3p2. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 03:19:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:19:50 +0000 Subject: Afilias Opportunities Message-ID: There is a job fair tomorrow, which will be attended by a number of companies that might be of interest; see URL: Afilias is one of the attending companies; here is a URL for the things that we are currently hiring for, mostly at the Yonge & York Mills offices: -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 16 20:20:21 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:20:21 -0500 Subject: Looking for a real email client In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611161220m278a9088gd4815071842fcea1@mail.gmail.com> On 11/15/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm hunting around for a decent replacement for Thunderbird. Oh hey.. I found the "save search as a folder" feature. Maybe this will work. If I automatically filtered emails into various sub-folders, and had a series of searches then I could do all sorts of things. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 18 23:19:08 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:19:08 -0500 Subject: Setting up encrypted partition (AES-loopback) Message-ID: <20061118181908.qsy2erir4oscg008@mail.math.yorku.ca> I'm using Debian Sarge. I've installed the loop-aes-utils, loop-aes-source, and loop-aes-ciphers-source commands, but they don't seem to come with any serious documentation (I can't even figure out what commands, if any, these packages are supposed to provide -- shouldn't apt-cache be able to tell you that? I can't figure out how.) What documentation there is talks about building the kernel from source. Why should I have to do that, given that loop-aes-utils is supposed to include a kernel module? I'd also really like an explanation, in general terms, of what happens when you have an encrypted partition. Do you provide the passphrase at mount time, or what? What if your /bin and /usr/bin are on the encrypted partition? Presumably you need to supply the passphrase at boot time, but does GRUB ask you for it, or what? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 17:03:30 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:03:30 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4559E0BF.5020008-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: dpkg --get-selections > installed-software vi installed-software _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ Meng Cheah Sent by: owner-tlug at ss.org 11/14/2006 10:29 AM Please respond to tlug at ss.org To tlug at ss.org cc Subject [TLUG]: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge Hi I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. apt-cache pkgnames --installed less /var/lib/dpkg/available dpkg -l Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed packages. How do I show only the installed packages? Thanks in advance. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 15 17:06:55 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 12:06:55 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel Message-ID: Hey all. Does anyone here know how you can tell if your currently booted kernel is a 32- or 64-bit? pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 21:51:57 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:51:57 -0500 Subject: FYI: Ballmer on Novell, Linux and patents (Seattle Post-Intelligencer) In-Reply-To: <1bb290611171005v2a016c8doe5a3f120a6bc245f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1bb290611171005v2a016c8doe5a3f120a6bc245f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I can't wait till they have to hold that up in court. I'd like to think of today's news, and the deal, as the start of an SCO court case v2, ending up with these fraudulent claims getting rejected due to a complete lack of evidence. That would make my decade.. (seeing as how the SCO cases are still going on after so long, maybe that should be decades) Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 14 14:14:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:14:28 -0500 Subject: Installed USB2 Card In-Reply-To: <4558F18F.9060303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4558F18F.9060303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20061114141428.GI8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 05:28:31PM -0500, John M. Moniz wrote: > I just installed a USB2.0 PCI card to my PC running on FC4 and now the > PC is not behaving. It's very slow and it locks when I try to get a > console while in KDE (Ctrl-Alt-Fn). Is there some module I need > installed? I now use USB 1.1 without problems (built in to the ATX > motherboard). Or could my PC be too slow for USB 2? It's an AMD K6-II > 550MHz w/ 640MB RAM, which is old but has been fast enough for me to > this point. > > If I am reading dmesg correctly, Linux is detecting USB 2. When I > plugged an ipod shuffle to the new card, the ipod came up as a removable > drive but the entire machine was crawling at about a 100Mhz speed. > > Any helpful tips would be appreciated. Which kind of USB2 card? What is the chip on it? I wonder if you have a defective card, or a card with a badly behaved chip. Or maybe you you have it on the same irq as something which doesn't like sharing (USB should never mind sharing, but some other devices are not as well designed). Does the card share an irq with another device in the system? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 17 17:20:47 2006 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:20:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: NFS problem Message-ID: <20061117172047.43590.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Our company is using Redhat Enterprise Linux. Recently there are some strange errors happed. The details is below: Setup: One network file system mounted on our server is rsync from one of the other business unit every night. The network file system contains all the tool config files. The rsync is done at night. Problem: Some times not very often, the client computers on our network can not start tools because the above network file system is stale. In order to solve the problem, the client computers has to be reboot for client user. Could any body tell me what cause this problem and is there another way to solve this problem in stead of reboot the computer. Thanks hui __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 07:09:31 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:09:31 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <20061118193801.GA9577-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1164006571.13647.32.camel@stan64.site> i am interested in this too, you have to also note what HD you have (want), i.e. real 1080(i/p) or sort-of-fake 720p, Rogers and other canadian cables companies seem to broadcast all in 1080i I have a 1080i (CRT) TAU set and it rocks! movies are 24p so having them at 1080i (which does 1080p at 30fps) is more then enough to preserve the motion pictures, its just sports that "can" look better at 720p, but I don't think canadian cable does much in 720p for sports, as alot i have seen are at 1080i as well. My borther tells me bell expressview is 720p for most of its stuff, but I have not confirmed that. Not sure what "off the air" broadcasts at? is it 1080i/720p? or a mixture? Anyways, I think Haupauge has a HD card, not sure about linux support. I know the 1080p sets are finally coming down in price, the tv manufacturers hope to sluff off 720 sets to as many people as possible , before rolling out the final 1080p sets which should be good for tv standards for many decades to come, and will probably break down, or fade before their resolution has become out dated (except if one hooks it to a computer, or perhaps ps4/xbox720 might have some even higher ers. option). I think I am going to buy a 1080i projection unit next, as i have seen the best sony has to offer right now for 1080p on flat screen, and its still one model generation (i think) may two from a CRT for quality. In about 3 more years i figure a flat panel 70" will be as good as a 3K$ good 34" CRT is today, and being use to the 1080i CRT, the flat screen kinda look average still. -tl On Sat, 2006-11-18 at 14:38 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'd like to record HDTV off the air. I've got an HDTV tuner hooked up > to my 19" NTSC TV. The picture quality is stunning, even on an analog > TV. I'm looking at getting a real HDTV after the Superbowl, as prices > continue to slide. > > So my question is... can I buy an HDTV VCR or a ready-to-go HDTV PVR > that works out-of-the-box? I'm not picky, as long as it doesn't involve > a subscription, like TIVO. I want to be in control of my own destiny. > I won't be connecting to the internet with it, so even Windows is safe > (I did say I wasn't picky). I would prefer linux with MythTV or > whatever, but I'm getting too lazy to "enjoy the adventure" of building > my own, and I'm willing to pay extra to have it ready to go. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:05:52 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:05:52 -0500 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611200705.52672.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 15 November 2006 18:04, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'm certainly open to any ideas. Here's what I know so far: > > #1 - On boot, non-root user id/passwd that has been in use for > 1 > year is not working. > > #2 - Using a virtual console, login as root and running passwd for the > workstation id, changed passwd for workstation id. > > #3 - New password does _not_ work for associated id. > > #4 - New password _does work_ for root. What do the logs say? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:09:43 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:09:43 -0500 Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 17/11/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > So I saw this today: > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;16;fpid;1 > > Just when you thought the fuss had died down... > > "In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the > Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, > Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux > distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux "uses our > intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to "get the appropriate > economic return for our shareholders from our innovation."" > > and > > "Only customers that use SUSE have paid properly for intellectual > property from Microsoft," he said. "We are willing to do a deal with Red > Hat and other Linux distributors." The deal with SUSE Linux "is not > exclusive," Ballmer added. > > Outrageous. the gloves are OFF ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:09:58 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:09:58 -0500 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611151549h6a7e3fbfo510ff7d2b1a63d53-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0611151549h6a7e3fbfo510ff7d2b1a63d53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A8264E-1ED5-4DEB-A08C-E5160E2D8211@visibleassets.com> Have you tried booting this in single user mode ? Dave On 15-Nov-06, at 6:49 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Before anyone responds as far as "trying again" - I did try this > process (all 4 steps) three times before posting. I am now running > off Ubuntu 6.06 live while doing research on this machine. All > passwords associated with this machine have been changed. > > Again, I am open and receptive any and all comments/constructive > criticism regarding this situation. > > FWIW, the affected platform is an Intel PIII running Fedora Core 1 - > which (almost) obviously should have been upgraded a long time ago. > > - Scott. > > On 11/15/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> I'm certainly open to any ideas. Here's what I know so far: >> >> #1 - On boot, non-root user id/passwd that has been in use for > 1 >> year is not working. >> >> #2 - Using a virtual console, login as root and running passwd for >> the >> workstation id, changed passwd for workstation id. >> >> #3 - New password does _not_ work for associated id. >> >> #4 - New password _does work_ for root. >> >> I am assuming this workstation is compromised, and until resolved I >> will be using other hardware(s) available to me. Any suggestions, >> ideas, thoughts would be welcome. I really don't know how (!?!) this >> workstation could have been influenced by outside forces since I'm >> fairly certain of the integrity of at least 3 layers of security >> between this workstation and the internet. This includes firewall's >> and routers. >> >> -- >> Scott Elcomb >> http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ >> http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ >> http://psema4.googlepages.com/ >> >> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." >> >> - Benjamin Franklin >> >> '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is >> putting >> on its shoes." >> >> - Mark Twain >> > > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ > http://psema4.googlepages.com/ > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > > - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." > > - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:20:07 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:20:07 -0500 Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45619D77.6010707@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > So I saw this today: > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;16;fpid;1 > > Just when you thought the fuss had died down... > > "In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the > Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, > Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux > distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux "uses our > intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to "get the appropriate > economic return for our shareholders from our innovation."" > > and > > "Only customers that use SUSE have paid properly for intellectual > property from Microsoft," he said. "We are willing to do a deal with Red > Hat and other Linux distributors." The deal with SUSE Linux "is not > exclusive," Ballmer added. > It sounds just like Darl McBride & SCO. I'd expect there's far more Unix/Linux in Windows than the other way around. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:21:52 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:21:52 -0500 Subject: NFS problem In-Reply-To: <20061117172047.43590.qmail-sUZ0EsP1NSWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061117172047.43590.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200611200721.52223.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 17 November 2006 12:20, hui xu wrote: > Could any body tell me what cause this problem and is there another way to > solve this problem in stead of reboot the computer. Thanks Try remounting instead of rebooting, it might work ... mount -o remount /whatever -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 12:41:33 2006 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:41:33 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> Hi, I have a V551 too which I baught from Rogers. After searching around the net around 2 years back, my conclusion was that a cable+software(windows only called mobile phone tools. Approx $50 ) was the only way to interact with the phone. Even after installing the software, I found that bluetooth would not work . Connection would take place but nothing else was possible. I had to use the cable. I felt that motorola might have deliberately messed around with the bluetooth as the software was available on many p2p sites . It may also be possible that Rogers has locked it so that the customers are forced to use the built in internet service to upload/download files instead of bluetooth. Hope this helps. Regards, Shinoj. Matt Price wrote: >hi, > >I've just finally become a cell phone user for the first time. I have a >cheap motorola phone with bluetooth, the v551 (rogers is the carrier). > >For the last little while I've kept my address book in evolution, synced >to my pda through pilot-link. that works pretty well. now I'm finding >I have to re-enter all my phone numbers into the phone b/c I have no >idea how to interface it with evolution or, indeed, with my computer at >all. I assume I just have to somehow get a bluetooth connection and >make them talk, and that this is somehow possible. > >I assume that other people have some way of dealing with this situation. >so, is there some way to sync my phone to evolution, and to my pda, in a >manner that won't end up generating all kind of duplicate entries in all >of the above (duplicate entries is my main problem with the pda <--> >evolution setup I already have)? If someone knows the answer I'd love >to hear it! > >thanks as always, >matt > > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:11:28 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:11:28 -0500 Subject: Listing installed packages in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: References: <4559E0BF.5020008@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <4561A980.1080405@pppoe.ca> Tim Writer wrote: >Meng Cheah writes: > > > >>Hi >> >>I'm checking out a Debian Sarge system. >>I'm running the commands below to find out what packages are installed. >> >>apt-cache pkgnames --installed >>less /var/lib/dpkg/available >>dpkg -l >> >>Any suggestions, alternatives or gotchas as to the above? >>I understand that dpkg -l displays installed packages as well as removed >>packages. >> >>How do I show only the installed packages? >> >> > >If I'm reading the output of "dpkg -l" correctly, you're only interested in >lines where the second character is "i": > > dpkg -l | grep '^.i' > > > Thanks to all that replied. I had no details on the system and am checking it out. Thanks again. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:44:02 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Nov 2006 08:44:02 -0500 Subject: Off-list: Re: Free and Cheap LPI exams in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Jason Spiro" writes: > Cool. Do you have anything not on a Saturday? I made an offer a few months ago to do a similar exam session at a NewTLUG or TLUG meeting. The offer's still open if we can find a room. NewTLUG isn't difficult but I don't know about TLUG. Other than that, I could do it during biz hours on the odd occasion if someone was willing to drop by the offices at 116 Industry St (but it's a PITA to get there by transit). HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:53:02 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:53:02 -0500 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280611200553n24b51e5fpde4c9f1256039de6@mail.gmail.com> On 11/15/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'm certainly open to any ideas. Here's what I know so far: > > #1 - On boot, non-root user id/passwd that has been in use for > 1 > year is not working. > > #2 - Using a virtual console, login as root and running passwd for the > workstation id, changed passwd for workstation id. > > #3 - New password does _not_ work for associated id. > > #4 - New password _does work_ for root. > > I am assuming this workstation is compromised, and until resolved I > will be using other hardware(s) available to me. Any suggestions, > ideas, thoughts would be welcome. I really don't know how (!?!) this > workstation could have been influenced by outside forces since I'm > fairly certain of the integrity of at least 3 layers of security > between this workstation and the internet. This includes firewall's > and routers. Disclaimer: I am NOT a security expert. Boot from a live CD, establish an internet connection. Download the passwd executable for your original distro (make sure you fetch the exact same version, or better yet get it off a distro CD if you have it). Do an md5sum on both the original and the newly retrieved version. This won't tell you how your system was compromised, but should at least tell you if passwd has been corrupted. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:54:49 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:54:49 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication In-Reply-To: <20061115161601.GA5088-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20061120135449.GA23017@watson-wilson.ca> If you lock the account 'passwd -l' key based authentication will still work. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:55:58 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:55:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061120135558.77431.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 17/11/06, Jamon Camisso > wrote: > > > > So I saw this today: > > > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;16;fpid;1 > > > > Just when you thought the fuss had died down... > > > > "In a question-and-answer session after his > keynote speech at the > > Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) > conference in Seattle, > > Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a > deal with SUSE Linux > > distributor Novell earlier this month because > Linux "uses our > > intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to > "get the appropriate > > economic return for our shareholders from our > innovation."" > > > > and > > > > "Only customers that use SUSE have paid properly > for intellectual > > property from Microsoft," he said. "We are willing > to do a deal with Red > > Hat and other Linux distributors." The deal with > SUSE Linux "is not > > exclusive," Ballmer added. > > > > Outrageous. > > > the gloves are OFF ! No, not yet. Sounds like Microsoft starting to use the Novell deal to do an updated version of their "Get the Facts" FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) campain. Key problem here is that the US patent system is seriously messed up. So: - Does MS have a whole pile of garbage patents that should never have been issued? Yes. - Have some open source programmers unwittingly infringed on some MS patent(s)? Almost certainly. The key question is will any of this go beyond saber rattling? Yes, MS could sue, but then what happens? Would IBM and/or RedHat go after MS for their infringing on other garbage patents? A patent war with the open source community would likely be a total war, which if it brought in IBM and/or US anti-trust regulators could get very unpleasant, very fast for ALL sides. In other words, until MS actually files a lawsuit against someone I would basicly ignore it all. Once a lawsuit is filed, then the gloves come off (and the nukes get armed). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 13:57:28 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Nov 2006 08:57:28 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication In-Reply-To: <20061115161601.GA5088-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman writes: > The thing is, once I have set up key-based authentication, I am > going to want to disable password-based authentication. I'm not quite > sure how to do that, and it would make me very sad if I locked myself > out by mistake. I am using Debian testing and OpenSSH_4.3p2. Thanks. Leave an ssh session open and su'ed to root then change the setting: PasswordAuthentication to 'no' in /etc/ssh/sshd_config. Then restart sshd (probably in that ssh session I mentioned above). Also, I've started doing some short talks (5-10 minutes) at each NewTLUG meeting. The next one is going to be an SSH primer. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 14:33:04 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:33:04 -0500 Subject: LoneCoder Blog: PS3, Ada and Open Source Message-ID: <1164033184.8095.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> My Lone Coder blog for November talks about the PlayStation 3, Yellow Dog Linux and the conflict between the Ada community and the open source community over GCC Ada. Will the FUD stop and will these guys work towards a better tomorrow? http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_november_2006.html KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 14:55:10 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:55:10 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> uname -a will tell you On 11/15/06, Paul Mora wrote: > Hey all. > > Does anyone here know how you can tell if your currently booted kernel > is a 32- or 64-bit? > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > Registered Linux user #2065 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 14:56:51 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The time has come Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/20/microsoft_claims_linux_code/ As far as I am concerned, there is now one IT company too many. I am sorry. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:00:02 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:00:02 -0500 Subject: Looking for a real email client In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30611200700t32464db9p812f5963777dabf9@mail.gmail.com> use procmail to sort and filer your mail On 11/15/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm hunting around for a decent replacement for Thunderbird. > > As always, Thunderbird is disgustingly slow. > > I'm looking for an email client which has: > > * HTML email reception > > * HTML email composition -- does any email client other than > Thunderbird do this? Is there a way for me to compose the HTML in > another applicaiton and use it / attach it for some lesser email > client? > > * Intelligent search folders. I want the ability to leave 100% of my > email in the inbox, and just have smart folders created which display > that list based on certain parameters. > > e.g. I can have a folder which displays emails to or from a certain > set of email addresses. > > Kmail threatens to be able to do this, but it falls flat -- I can't > view the properties of a saved search, or change them. Hrmph. > > --+ > > Sylpheed-claws is nice and lean, and with the right plugin I can view > HTML emails. But I'm stuck with sorting thousands of emails by hand. > That's annoying. > > > Does anyone have any ideas for an alternate? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:13:33 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:13:33 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication In-Reply-To: References: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20061120151333.GA9471@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 08:57:28AM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman writes: >> The thing is, once I have set up key-based authentication, I am >> going to want to disable password-based authentication. I'm not quite >> sure how to do that, and it would make me very sad if I locked myself >> out by mistake. I am using Debian testing and OpenSSH_4.3p2. Thanks. > >Leave an ssh session open and su'ed to root then change the setting: > > PasswordAuthentication > >to 'no' in /etc/ssh/sshd_config. Then restart sshd (probably in that ssh >session I mentioned above). > >Also, I've started doing some short talks (5-10 minutes) at each NewTLUG >meeting. The next one is going to be an SSH primer. Thanks to all. Due to the lengthy delay in TLUG mail over the last few days, I managed to trial and error my way through this. Changing PasswordAuthentication to "no" doesn't work, because it has always been set to "no". I had to change ChallengeResponseAuthentication to "no" for the server to stop asking for a password if no key was provided. Now I have two-factor authentication with a key on a USB device and a passphrase in my head, and my logs are no longer filled with user $FOO not on AllowUsers list entries. The advice to open up a second session to use as a bail-out was essential - I didn't realize that an SSH session will persist even when you restart the daemon. Neat. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:34:52 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Nov 2006 10:34:52 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication In-Reply-To: <20061120151333.GA9471-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20061120151333.GA9471@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman writes: > Changing PasswordAuthentication to "no" doesn't work, because it has > always been set to "no". Are you certain? from the sshd_config man page: PasswordAuthentication Specifies whether password authentication is allowed. The default is ``yes''. Maybe I missed something in your earlier e-mail and am answering a different question. :) > The advice to open up a second session to use as a bail-out was > essential - I didn't realize that an SSH session will persist even when > you restart the daemon. Neat. That's the same for most (all?) daemons of this sort. Stopping the service will kill the daemon listening on the service's port (ie. no more new connections) but any children will continue running. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:34:58 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:34:58 -0500 Subject: Outage? Message-ID: <20061120153458.GA9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Is there any explanation for the list outage last week? I assume there was an outage because I only got two emails from the list between the 14th and this morning, when I got over 50, and Gmane seemed to agree with me. Or am I just crazy ;-) (shut up, shut up, they'll hear you) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:47:21 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:47:21 -0500 Subject: NFS problem In-Reply-To: <20061117172047.43590.qmail-sUZ0EsP1NSWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20061117172047.43590.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 11/17/06, hui xu wrote: > > Hi all, > > Our company is using Redhat Enterprise Linux. Recently there are some > strange errors happed. The details is below: > > Setup: > One network file system mounted on our server is rsync from one of the > other business unit every night. The network file system contains all the > tool config files. The rsync is done at night. > > Problem: > Some times not very often, the client computers on our network can not > start tools because the above network file system is stale. In order to > solve the problem, the client computers has to be reboot for client user. > Alternately, from the server, you can re-export the NFS shares .. I think exportfs -rv does the trick. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:50:58 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:50:58 -0500 Subject: This workstation compromised... Not sure how, but... In-Reply-To: <46A8264E-1ED5-4DEB-A08C-E5160E2D8211-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0611151504gbc8c9cay446543c7a30afa2f@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0611151549h6a7e3fbfo510ff7d2b1a63d53@mail.gmail.com> <46A8264E-1ED5-4DEB-A08C-E5160E2D8211@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <1164037858.28405.167.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-11-20 at 07:09 -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > > Again, I am open and receptive any and all comments/constructive > > criticism regarding this situation. > > > > FWIW, the affected platform is an Intel PIII running Fedora Core 1 - > > which (almost) obviously should have been upgraded a long time ago. One easy thing to do is to run rpm -Va and look for changed executables and config files that are scripts. There will be lots of changes listed. Watch the 'c' attribute since this means config files. Some config files are executed (e.g. /etc/init.d/, /etc/profile, etc) so you should check those out. Otherwise look for /usr/bin, /bin, /usr/libexec and other common executable locations. This assumes that root kits do not install as RPMs and do not alter the RPM database. So far this has been a safe assumption for me. Usually procps is compromised with root kits. A quick check would be "rpm -V procps". If you find files that appear compromised use rpm -qf to find the package of the file, download it and install it with the --noscripts option. This avoids the catch-22 where a common file like 'ls' is compromised and when run will re-infect and the pre or post-script for an RPM uses ls as part of the install. Re-verify the package (rpm -V) after installation. Some root kits make file immutable using ext3 attributes so that even root cannot replace the file. See item 6 below. Most compromises will do one of the following: 1. Add a user to the /etc/passwd file. I haven't seen any clever ones yet, but the date and time on the most recent /etc/passwd or the home directory created with the user gives a good idea of the time the compromise took place. 2. Add entries to /etc/xinet.conf or /etc/xinetd.d. This allows them to start daemons for back doors. 3. Add lines to /etc/rc, /etc/rc.d/rc.local, or add a file to /etc/init.d/. Use rpm -qf to find the owner of each file, anyone that is not owned by a package is suspect. 4. One common exploit recently are from bad passwords (ssh dictionary attacks.) Check /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow and make sure that there are only passwords on accounts that you want. 5. Another common exploit is buggy web apps. Check /var/tmp and /tmp for files or dirs owned by apache. Use 'ls -la /tmp /var/tmp' because the attacker may have used hidden files. Also grep /var/log/httpd/error_log for wget. Often they use wget to download root kits. 6. They will often set an 'i' extended ext3 attributed on infected files. Run lsattr /bin /usr/bin and look for 'i' in the attribute list. There are some non-compromise things that may have bit you. Check pam, to see if any files in /etc/pam.d have changed recently. Check /etc/nsswitch.conf to see if it changed recently. Did you change root's login in any way, perhaps a new shell that's not in /etc/shells? Good luck. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:51:19 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:51:19 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp Message-ID: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have heard a great deal of talk about Emacs and Lisp, some of it plainly inflammatory, but much of it seemingly well-reasoned and sane, from people whose opinions I tend to trust. I wanted to try these things out, but I have some questions: 1. Can I get Emacs to run in a terminal? When ever I launch it, it opens up a separate window, which doesn't work for me when I am logged in remotely. 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or compiled like C? How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? 3. Which Lisp? I hear Lisp spoken of in the same sentence as Smalltalk and Scheme - are they mostly the same? Is common Lisp the way to go? Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:51:53 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:51:53 -0500 Subject: The time has come In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/20/06, Peter P. wrote: > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/20/microsoft_claims_linux_code/ > > As far as I am concerned, there is now one IT company too many. I am > sorry. This is Microsoft's Divide and Conquer strategy .. except that this is one bluff that monkey boy is going to lose, if he actually plays it out. C'mon Steve, where's the beef? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 15:55:21 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:55:21 -0500 Subject: Key-based SSH authentication In-Reply-To: References: <20061115161601.GA5088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20061120151333.GA9471@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20061120155521.GC9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 10:34:52AM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman writes: >> Changing PasswordAuthentication to "no" doesn't work, because it has >> always been set to "no". > >Are you certain? from the sshd_config man page: > > PasswordAuthentication > Specifies whether password authentication is allowed. The > default is ``yes''. Yup, the difference is that Debian's SSH appears to be compiled with PAM support, and so the PasswordAuthentication on my sshd_config bears this comment: # Change to yes to enable tunnelled clear text passwords >> The advice to open up a second session to use as a bail-out was >> essential - I didn't realize that an SSH session will persist even when >> you restart the daemon. Neat. > >That's the same for most (all?) daemons of this sort. Stopping the service >will kill the daemon listening on the service's port (ie. no more new >connections) but any children will continue running. Very cool. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 16:01:46 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:01:46 -0500 Subject: Outage? In-Reply-To: <20061120153458.GA9643-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061120153458.GA9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 11/20/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > Is there any explanation for the list outage last week? I assume there > was an outage because I only got two emails from the list between the > 14th and this morning, when I got over 50, and Gmane seemed to agree > with me. Or am I just crazy ;-) > > (shut up, shut up, they'll hear you) True story: I once dealt with a network provider whose service was a little spotty; one day, all of my transactions were being 'lost' -- at the network level I'd get an ACK that they'd been received, then .. nothing (I should have received either a response or a timeout). When I followed up, the sysadmin told me the transaction was probably delayed because of 'snow on the lines'. I paused to consider explaining to her on how many levels she might be wrong, then decided that someone who was trying to use that excuse for a network problem was either a) not really equipped to help me solve the problem or b) pulling my leg. I decided the best approach was just to accept that story and wait for the network service to return -- allowing her to save face, and allowing me to retain my sanity. So .. maybe there were, like, birds on the wire going to the mail list server, that allowed it to receive mail but not forward mail? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 16:11:24 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:11:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Outage? In-Reply-To: References: <20061120153458.GA9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 11/20/06, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >> >> Is there any explanation for the list outage last week? I assume there >> was an outage because I only got two emails from the list between the >> 14th and this morning, when I got over 50, and Gmane seemed to agree >> with me. Or am I just crazy ;-) >> >> (shut up, shut up, they'll hear you) > > > True story: I once dealt with a network provider whose service was a little > spotty; one day, all of my transactions were being 'lost' -- at the network > level I'd get an ACK that they'd been received, then .. nothing (I should > have received either a response or a timeout). When I followed up, the > sysadmin told me the transaction was probably delayed because of 'snow on > the lines'. > > I paused to consider explaining to her on how many levels she might be > wrong, then decided that someone who was trying to use that excuse for a > network problem was either a) not really equipped to help me solve the > problem or b) pulling my leg. I decided the best approach was just to accept > that story and wait for the network service to return -- allowing her to > save face, and allowing me to retain my sanity. > > So .. maybe there were, like, birds on the wire going to the mail list > server, that allowed it to receive mail but not forward mail? Those are pigoens, and they are only trained to take messages *to* the server! -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 16:41:42 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:41:42 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <20061116011402.GA18817-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061116011402.GA18817@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20061120164142.GK8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 08:14:02PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'd like to record HDTV off the air. I've got an HDTV tuner hooked up > to my 19" NTSC TV. The picture quality is stunning, even on an analog > TV. I'm looking at getting a real HDTV after the Superbowl, as prices > continue to slide. > > So my question is... can I buy a ready-to-go PVR that works > out-of-the-box? I'm not picky, as long as it doesn't involve a > subscription, like TIVO. I want to be in control of my own destiny. I > won't be connecting to the internet with it, so even Windows is safe (I > did say I wasn't picky). I would prefer linux with MythTV or > whatever, but I'm getting too lazy to "enjoy the adventure" of building > my own, and I'm willing to pay extra to have it ready to go. Not sure there are any. of course rogers and some of the satelite companies have ready to use out of the box PVRs for their service, although rather expensive usually. pchdtv.com has some cards that work with linux for receiving ATSC HDTV signals (and in the case of the 3000 and 5500 they can apparently also receive certain cable formats, although that is of no use given rogers encrypts all their HDTV stations as far as I know.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 16:44:43 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:44:43 -0500 Subject: does reporting spam to services like spamcop do any good? In-Reply-To: <200611161415.18202.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611161415.18202.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20061120164443.GL8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 02:15:17PM -0500, bob wrote: > Some of my email accounts are getting hammered by spam these days. > Filtering helps but there has to be a better way. > > Do services like spamcop do any good? > > http://www.spamcop.net/ I use procmail to dump certain mailing lists into folders, then run the rest through bogofilter, which works very well for me (based on the training data I have provided it with). I have found spamassassin nothing more than a complete waste of cpu time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 17:13:52 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:13:52 -0500 Subject: does reporting spam to services like spamcop do any good? In-Reply-To: <20061120164443.GL8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200611161415.18202.ican@netrover.com> <20061120164443.GL8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1164042832.13536.23.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-11-20 at 11:44 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I use procmail to dump certain mailing lists into folders, then run the > rest through bogofilter, which works very well for me (based on the > training data I have provided it with). I have found spamassassin > nothing more than a complete waste of cpu time. If you run a mail server and want to filter more than one email box I recommend MailScanner. MailScanner is my choice for system-level filtering. It is highly configurable (per-user and per-domain), uses SpamAssassin and all its features, RBLs, virus scanning, and detects phishing fraud, and other forms of dangerous content (usually only dangerous to Windows (l)users.) My server processes about 40,000 messages per day (that's not really very many by ISP standards) and it traps about 30,000 messages for me and my customers. In my case I received about 750 spam a day but less than 4 arrive in my inbox. Couple MailScanner with MailWatch and you have a decent web-based quarantine. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 17:29:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:29:20 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <1164006571.13647.32.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> <1164006571.13647.32.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061120172920.GM8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 02:09:31AM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > i am interested in this too, > you have to also note what HD you have (want), i.e. real 1080(i/p) > or sort-of-fake 720p, I think 720p is perfectly good HDTV. I never did like interlacing. 1080p is preferable, but that isn't currently used for broadcast, only HD DVD formats. A TV that natively does 1080p and can deinterlace a 1080i signal, and scale up a 720p signal to me seems like the right way to go. a 1080i native TV would throw away half the frames of a 720p signal and then scale it, while showing a 1080i signal natively, while a 720p native display would show 720p properly, while it would have to scale the 1080i signal (and deinterlace it, which is no big deal since it doesn't drop data, it just duplicates data). > Rogers and other canadian cables companies seem to broadcast all in > 1080i > I have a 1080i (CRT) TAU set and it rocks! > movies are 24p so having them at 1080i (which does 1080p at 30fps) > is more then enough to preserve the motion pictures, 24p movies would probably convert better to 60p than 30i, since for 60p you just have to do frames A A B B B C C D D D etc. 30i would have to do something like frames A1 A2 B1 B2 B1 C2 C1 D2 D1 D2 etc. Seems to get complicated. Of course 24p converts much better to european 50i/25p signals. Apparently they often just compress the movie by 4% and run the 24fps at 25fps. > its just sports that "can" look better at 720p, but I don't think > canadian cable does much in 720p for sports, as alot i have seen are at > 1080i as well. My borther tells me bell expressview is 720p for most of > its stuff, but I have not confirmed that. > Not sure what "off the air" broadcasts at? is it 1080i/720p? or a > mixture? Depends on the company. I believe ABC, ESPN and FOX are 720p, while I think CBS, NBC and PBS use 1080i for their broadcasts. > Anyways, I think Haupauge has a HD card, not sure about linux support. > I know the 1080p sets are finally coming down in price, > the tv manufacturers hope to sluff off 720 sets to as many people as > possible , before rolling out the final 1080p sets which should be good > for tv standards for many decades to come, and will probably break down, > or fade before their resolution has become out dated (except if one > hooks it to a computer, or perhaps ps4/xbox720 might have some even > higher ers. option). I don't think we are going to see a resolution increase for a long time. 1920x1080 looks rather amazing, and there is limited bandwidth available. Perhaps better compression will change that later. > I think I am going to buy a 1080i projection unit next, > as i have seen the best sony has to offer right now for 1080p on flat > screen, and its still one model generation (i think) may two from a CRT > for quality. In about 3 more years i figure a flat panel 70" will be as > good as a 3K$ good 34" CRT is today, and being use to the 1080i CRT, > the flat screen kinda look average still. I will just wait for 1080p TVs to become available and resonably priced. Until they I will stick with NTSC. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 18:12:01 2006 From: brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org (Angelina Carlton) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:12:01 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120155119.GB9643-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> (William O'Higgins Witteman's message of "Mon\, 20 Nov 2006 10\:51\:19 -0500") References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <87bqn2dm32.fsf@magma.ca> "William O'Higgins Witteman" writes: > I have heard a great deal of talk about Emacs and Lisp, some of it > plainly inflammatory, but much of it seemingly well-reasoned and sane, > from people whose opinions I tend to trust. I wanted to try these > things out, but I have some questions: > > 1. Can I get Emacs to run in a terminal? When ever I launch it, it > opens up a separate window, which doesn't work for me when I am logged > in remotely. use emacs -nw > 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or > compiled like C? How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a > Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? > > 3. Which Lisp? I hear Lisp spoken of in the same sentence as Smalltalk > and Scheme - are they mostly the same? Is common Lisp the way to go? > > Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. I cannot speak for what flavour of lisp is best to start with, however if your new to emacs and to lisp, it is good to get familiar with elsip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs_Lisp an excellent tutorial can be found here: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/emacs-lisp-intro.html on Debian apt-get install emacs-lisp-intro, and you can then read it in emacs via the C-h i interface. I cant say enough about how well written this book is! -- -----Angelina Carlton----- orchid on irc.freenode.net brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org http://bzgirl.org -------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 17:43:22 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:43:22 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120155119.GB9643-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20061120174322.GN8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 10:51:19AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have heard a great deal of talk about Emacs and Lisp, some of it > plainly inflammatory, but much of it seemingly well-reasoned and sane, > from people whose opinions I tend to trust. I wanted to try these > things out, but I have some questions: > > 1. Can I get Emacs to run in a terminal? When ever I launch it, it > opens up a separate window, which doesn't work for me when I am logged > in remotely. Well as long as your copy of emacs is compiled to support terminals in addition to X then it should work fine in just a terminal. xemacs of course does not. > 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or > compiled like C? How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a > Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? elisp code is emacs specific. It doesn't care what OS you run emacs on, the elisp code runs just fine on the emacs OS. It is interpreted I believe to a type of byte code which is then run by a type of virtual machine or something like that. > 3. Which Lisp? I hear Lisp spoken of in the same sentence as Smalltalk > and Scheme - are they mostly the same? Is common Lisp the way to go? elisp: emacs lisp. > Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. I stay away from emacs. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 19:10:09 2006 From: brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org (Angelina Carlton) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:10:09 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120174322.GN8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Mon\, 20 Nov 2006 12\:43\:22 -0500") References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20061120174322.GN8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <877ixqdje6.fsf@magma.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 10:51:19AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> 1. Can I get Emacs to run in a terminal? When ever I launch it, it >> opens up a separate window, which doesn't work for me when I am logged >> in remotely. > Well as long as your copy of emacs is compiled to support terminals in > addition to X then it should work fine in just a terminal. xemacs of > course does not. xemacs actually does run in terminals. http://www.xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/xemacs-faq_2.html#SEC17 some good info on the differences between the two can be found on the emacs wiki http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/EmacsAndXEmacs William, I should add the emacs wiki is also fantastic starting place if you should choose to learn more about emacs: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki#SiteMap1 -- -----Angelina Carlton----- orchid on irc.freenode.net brat-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org http://bzgirl.org -------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 20:15:24 2006 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:15:24 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120155119.GB9643-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> (William O'Higgins Witteman's message of "Mon\, 20 Nov 2006 10\:51\:19 -0500") References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <877ixpzxgj.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 20 Nov 2006, william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org wrote: > 1. Can I get Emacs to run in a terminal? When ever I launch it, it > opens up a separate window, which doesn't work for me when I am logged > in remotely. Yes: emacs -nw > 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or > compiled like C? It is interpreted, although the files can be byte compiled like Java. > How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a > Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? It is portable within Emacs on any platform. > 3. Which Lisp? I hear Lisp spoken of in the same sentence as > Smalltalk > and Scheme - are they mostly the same? Is common Lisp the way to go? The flavour of lisp used is called Emacs lisp. No, Smalltalk is not lisp, but Scheme is a lisp dilect. > Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. http://www.emacswiki.org Charles -- panic("No information about myself?"); linux-2.6.6/arch/mips/sgi-ip27/ip27-timer.c -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 20:17:25 2006 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:17:25 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120174322.GN8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Mon\, 20 Nov 2006 12\:43\:22 -0500") References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20061120174322.GN8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <873b8dzxd6.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 20 Nov 2006, lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: > xemacs of course does not. This is wrong. XEmacs can also be run in a console. Charles -- prom_printf("Detected PenguinPages, getting out of here.\n"); linux-2.0.38/arch/sparc/mm/srmmu.c -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 20:49:12 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:49:12 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/20/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > uname -a will tell you So what would I see on, for example, a 64-bit system running a 32-bit kernel? pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 21:04:31 2006 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:04:31 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <877ixpzxgj.fsf-HasXQTlsvt1ah8WM/F5+tg@public.gmane.org> (Charles philip Chan's message of "Mon\, 20 Nov 2006 15\:15\:24 -0500") References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <877ixpzxgj.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <87slgdygm8.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 20 Nov 2006, cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: >> 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or >> compiled like C? > > It is interpreted, although the files can be byte compiled like Java. Sorry for giving you some wrong info. Marc Evelyn reminded me that there are dilects of lisp that can compiled into native code. I was thinking about elisp. >> How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a >> Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? > > It is portable within Emacs on any platform. I should rephrase that. You might have to recompile with the bytecode version and certainly with the native code version. >> Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. > > http://www.emacswiki.org Other than the usual programming stuff, here are some cool Emacs lisp programs to check out: (1) Muse: http://www.mwolson.org/projects/EmacsMuse.html (2) Planner-mode: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/emacs-en/PlannerMode (3) Gnus: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/emacs-en?CategoryGnus (4) Org-mode: http://staff.science.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools/org/ is pretty cool too. Charles -- "Besides, I think [Slackware] sounds better than 'Microsoft,' don't you?" (By Patrick Volkerding) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 21:55:43 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:43 -0500 Subject: The time has come In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061120165543.7830c11f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Peter P. got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > As far as I am concerned, there is now one IT company too many. I am sorry. Why sorry? If anything, feel sorry that so many of us were willing to try to work out some kind of liveable solution, and it's been thrown back in our face at every turn. Feel sorry that people were willing to give Gates and Co the benefit of the doubt, and accept the fact that we just had to live with this, etc., and yet still M$ will not back off. Feel sorry that we didn't do what should have been done a long time ago: shut them down. No courts (they clearly don't work), no regulations (M$ ignores them anyway), we just make the M$ products so egregiously difficult to use on the 'Net that people can simply no longer afford to use their products. Remember who M$ is attacking with this statement: SysAdmins the world over, steeped to the bone in F/OSS, and with the keys to the whole freakin' infrastructure, have just been told by M$ that *they* are *thieves*. It would be funny if one day, all of a sudden, no Windows computer in the World was able to connect to the 'Net. Very, very, very, very, very, very funny. Evil? No. 'That's how you get Capone.' ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Give a hoot-o Don't pollute Pluto -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 22:00:52 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:00:52 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: <4561A27D.9050209-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-20-11 at 07:41 -0500, VGS wrote: > Hi, > > I have a V551 too which I baught from Rogers. After searching around the > net around 2 years back, my conclusion was that a cable+software(windows > only called mobile phone tools. Approx $50 ) was the only way to > interact with the phone. Even after installing the software, I found > that bluetooth would not work . Connection would take place but nothing > else was possible. I had to use the cable. I felt that motorola might > have deliberately messed around with the bluetooth as the software was > available on many p2p sites . It may also be possible that Rogers has > locked it so that the customers are forced to use the built in internet > service to upload/download files instead of bluetooth. Hope this helps. > well, I suppose it helps inthe sense that it will stop me messing about trying to fix this machine. obviously I'm not going to bother with the cable -- evne if I did urn an instance of windows as a vm under vmware or xen the hassle of getting thingssynced would likely be prohibitive. bummer. t hanks htough, matt > Regards, > Shinoj. > > Matt Price wrote: > > >hi, > > > >I've just finally become a cell phone user for the first time. I have a > >cheap motorola phone with bluetooth, the v551 (rogers is the carrier). > > > >For the last little while I've kept my address book in evolution, synced > >to my pda through pilot-link. that works pretty well. now I'm finding > >I have to re-enter all my phone numbers into the phone b/c I have no > >idea how to interface it with evolution or, indeed, with my computer at > >all. I assume I just have to somehow get a bluetooth connection and > >make them talk, and that this is somehow possible. > > > >I assume that other people have some way of dealing with this situation. > >so, is there some way to sync my phone to evolution, and to my pda, in a > >manner that won't end up generating all kind of duplicate entries in all > >of the above (duplicate entries is my main problem with the pda <--> > >evolution setup I already have)? If someone knows the answer I'd love > >to hear it! > > > >thanks as always, > >matt > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 22:13:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:13:29 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061120221329.GO8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 03:49:12PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > On 11/20/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > >uname -a will tell you > > So what would I see on, for example, a 64-bit system running a 32-bit > kernel? A 64bit system running a 32bit kernel should say arch i386 or i686 or something like that. A 64bit kernel says x86_64. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 22:25:03 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:25:03 -0500 Subject: The time has come In-Reply-To: <20061120165543.7830c11f-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20061120165543.7830c11f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061120172503.0f3dd579@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:43 -0500 JoeHill got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > It would be funny if one day, all of a sudden, no Windows computer in the > World was able to connect to the 'Net. Very, very, very, very, very, very > funny. Oh, and of course, when those Win users cry out in pain, 'Where's My Goat Pron??!!', we are there with truckloads of CD's, and volunteers oh-so-willing to intall 'em. 'Yes, very sad that M$ has abandoned you this way, let us help, there there, it'll be alright little one...' >:-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I don't know why, but when I look down at their little faces it makes me want to puke... in a good way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 22:59:32 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:59:32 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45623354.6010508@telly.org> Paul Mora wrote: >> uname -a will tell you > > So what would I see on, for example, a 64-bit system running a 32-bit > kernel? The most reliable thing for me is `uname -m` (to tell me the kernel running) `grep "model name" /proc/cpuinfo` (to tell me the CPU installed) On my Mandriva 64-bit system, `uname -p` correctly identifies the processor hardware but on a 32-bit Ubuntu box the same command returns `unknown`. So it can't be reliably trusted. (I don't have a 64-bit system running a 32-bit kernel so I can't exactly test this scenario using the above commands. Maybe someone else here can confirm or deny the utility of this combination. YMMV) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 00:33:54 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:33:54 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: <45623354.6010508-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> <45623354.6010508@telly.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420611201633v32467cb0l2c4182a36e3f1aa5@mail.gmail.com> > > So what would I see on, for example, a 64-bit system running a 32-bit > > kernel? > (I don't have a 64-bit system running a 32-bit kernel so I can't exactly > test this scenario using the above commands. Maybe someone else here can > confirm or deny the utility of this combination. YMMV) I could be wrong here, but I think a 64-bit userland on a 32-bit kernel is impossible. 32-on-64 should be possible, and obviously 64-on-64 and 32-on-32 are both fine. For reference, I'm running a 32-bit userland and a 32-bit kernel all on a 64-bit chip and here are my results: ian at frodo ~ $ uname -m i686 ian at frodo ~ $ uname -p AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ ian at frodo ~ $ uname -a Linux frodo 2.6.17-gentoo-r4 #7 SMP PREEMPT Fri Sep 8 01:38:05 EDT 2006 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 00:35:01 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:35:01 -0500 Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux [RIP Microsoft] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061120193501.0e6f791a@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:09:43 -0500 David J Patrick got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > the gloves are OFF ! Honestly, were they ever 'on'? I mean on 'their' side, of course. This has been the overall pattern of their behaviour for years. How do you even begin to play fair when the other side won't stop cheating. On our side, damn right. The OSS community has been far too lenient with Microsoft, and in many ways enabled their behaviour by trying to be accommodating. Now, as you imply, it's our time to pull the rug out from under this bunch of maladaptive sociopathic trogs. If anything, I feel vindicated. I don't want to troll, but frankly, all those people who labelled me a 'Linux Fanboy' for being so suspicious of Microsoft, well... :-D More, I'm really quite happy about this. 'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win'. We just won. We should be dancing in the streets, as far as I'm concerned. Ballmer can't put that back in the box no matter how much pressure might be exerted by his corpulent ass. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "I don't care how many eyes a man has... as long as it's less than five." -Leela -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 00:48:37 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:48:37 -0500 Subject: does reporting spam to services like spamcop do any good? In-Reply-To: <20061120164443.GL8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200611161415.18202.ican@netrover.com> <20061120164443.GL8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20061120194837.1e1baa43@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:44:43 -0500 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I use procmail to dump certain mailing lists into folders, then run the > rest through bogofilter, which works very well for me (based on the > training data I have provided it with). Big HUGE 'me too' on this one. Bogofilter is a miracle. I fought for years with Procmail recipes, RBL's (like SpamCop, etc.), it was a constant headache. Then I installed Bogo on my little P100 Debian box, fed it about 30MB each of spam and ham for training and...all of a sudden it got very quiet. Every so often I do a grep on the spam bin to check for false positives, but it's rare that I find them. Of course, you can redirect bogospam to a spam folder so you can check from your mail client if you wish, the docs cover both methods. Seriously, it's dead easy to set up, the docs are fantastic, and the developers/maintainers, should you need help, are the *best*. Dealt with David Relson on the ML with a couple of questions, and then when it was running fine and I didn't need any help, I unsubbed from the ML. David e-mailed me the next day to ask why I unsubbed, and if it was because I was having any problems. It brings a tear to your eye... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: I guess you never really outgrow being an eyeball... oddball. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 20 23:33:01 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:33:01 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Jumping in late, without reading the first part of this. I haver a V551, a Mac and MacOS' sync tool, which ties my address book and calendar to the V551 via Bluetooth. I *can* be done. How easily is another matter. With the Mac you just pair the phone, click "sync" and you're golden, but then you don't have something to keep you busy for years and years :-) paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 02:23:07 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:23:07 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200611202123.07392.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 15 November 2006 12:06, Paul Mora wrote: > Does anyone here know how you can tell if your currently booted kernel > is a 32- or 64-bit? Yet another possibility ... fraser at somewhere:~$ arch x86_64 Of course you could be running 64bit sparc or ppc in which case I don't know the values that would be returned ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 03:53:59 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:53:59 +0800 Subject: OT: Qmail help Message-ID: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi all, im getting a lot of queued emails and I was wondering how to stop or remove it from the queue. actually i have 900+ of these... by the way.. im not running an open relay... i have tested it.. it gives an error: 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) 20 Nov 2006 09:43:00 GMT #560279 1806 remote BetterHomeBusiness-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 15 Nov 2006 09:38:00 GMT #557818 1732 remote abusinessopportunity-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:42:55 GMT #560210 1808 remote 1_work_at_home_biz-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:39:14 GMT #559589 1674 remote bringingmomshome-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:43:12 GMT #560348 1805 remote freemoneymaking-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 15 Nov 2006 03:37:46 GMT #557036 1829 <> remote HopelArook-rW1qSAfHFn2akBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:42:46 GMT #560141 1813 remote Work_From_Home_Business-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 17 Nov 2006 09:37:23 GMT #558301 1687 remote business-home-online-opportunity-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:10:16 GMT #557565 1674 remote homebusinessforwomen-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:34:21 GMT #558186 1548 remote go2emedia29194-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:34:29 GMT #558324 1552 remote homebusinesssuccess-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:35:57 GMT #558830 1732 remote achievewealthonline-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:36:42 GMT #559060 1726 remote homebusiness3-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:37:22 GMT #559198 1676 remote Malaysia_DUIT_MLM-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 16 Nov 2006 16:54:24 GMT #557358 1803 remote A1workathome-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:10:32 GMT #557634 1685 remote home-business_opportunities_001-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org 20 Nov 2006 09:36:00 GMT #558853 1730 remote mukmon_organization-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org thanks, Mailing-Lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 07:28:59 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:28:59 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <200611211153.59840.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:53:59 +0800 JM got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > im getting a lot of queued emails and I was wondering how to stop or remove > it from the queue. actually i have 900+ of these... I think this might be your problem: http://tinyurl.com/ykazda /ducks for cover Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo!" --Morbo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 08:27:41 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:27:41 -0500 Subject: Looking for a real email client In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061121032741.36751285@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:26:12 -0500 Sy Ali got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > some lesser email client? ROFLAMO! Sorry, that's really funny. /still giggling... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "I'm gonna go build my own theme park... with blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the park!" -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 10:32:33 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:32:33 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <1164006571.13647.32.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> <1164006571.13647.32.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20061121103233.GA15347@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 02:09:31AM -0500, ted leslie wrote > i am interested in this too, you have to also note what HD you have > (want), i.e. real 1080(i/p) or sort-of-fake 720p, Rogers and > other canadian cables companies seem to broadcast all in 1080i Stay away from low-end plasmas then. You'll see EDTV resolution (852x480) and so-called HDTV resolutions of 1024x768, 1024x1024, and even 1024x1080. Plasmas have enough other problems; these low-end displays are killing their reputation. I haven't seen ads for an LCD below 1366x768 for a long time, and 1920x1080 are starting to show up in the 42 inch and higher sizes. > movies are 24p so having them at 1080i (which does 1080p at 30fps) > is more then enough to preserve the motion pictures, its just sports > that "can" look better at 720p... Anything with lots of movement is better in "p" than in "i". This is mostly sports, but can include "action movies". The reason is... - anything "p" (e.g. 720p) means "progrssive scan", i.e. the entire picture is blasted out at once. The picture looks great. - 30 fps interlaced is actually 2 half-pictures 1/60th of a second apart. 24 fps interlaced is actually 2 half-pictures 1/48th of a second apart. If you have lots of fast movement, the half-pictures a fraction of a second apart won't line up. The more-expensive TV sets have motion-compensation algorithms just for this, but you can only do so much. > Not sure what "off the air" broadcasts at? is it 1080i/720p? or > a mixture? See http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/ for an idea what things are like in the GTA. Looks like mostly 1080i, with some 720p. > Anyways, I think Haupauge has a HD card, not sure about linux support. During the mailing-list outage, I did some looking. The AutumnWave OnAir HDTV GT USB unit has been drawing rave reviews, but I couldn't find any outfit in the US that would ship to Canada. I finally found a Canadian reference at http://www.expansys.ca/p.aspx?i=140064 and was able to place an order at a 416-area-code phone number. It took a minute to figure out that when they asked for the "code number" they meant the stock code, i.e. the "140064" It requires Windows (yeah, I know); XP Home is sufficient. The AutumnWave actually loses some functionality under Windows MCE. I plan to get a basic Dell with XP Home and a 320 gig drive. It'll be dedicated as a PVR, and no internet use, so I'm not worried about "Windows Security" (or lack thereof). -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 11:42:27 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:42:27 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <200611211153.59840.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <7ac602420611210342pbf1f730k9e5d97df7524c9e0@mail.gmail.com> > im getting a lot of queued emails and I was wondering how to stop or remove > it from the queue. actually i have 900+ of these... You could try qmHandle (http://qmhandle.sourceforge.net/). I've used it before, and I think it gives you the option of cleaning out the queue. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 13:41:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:41:46 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <20061121022859.710efef6-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:53:59 +0800 > JM got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> im getting a lot of queued emails and I was wondering how to stop or remove >> it from the queue. actually i have 900+ of these... > > I think this might be your problem: > > http://tinyurl.com/ykazda > > /ducks for cover > > Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) > Ouch! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 13:30:19 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:30:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611210342pbf1f730k9e5d97df7524c9e0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <7ac602420611210342pbf1f730k9e5d97df7524c9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25216.72.38.22.170.1164115819.squirrel@72.38.22.170> qmhandle works well. I use it frequently. But you also might want to take a look at queue-fix (http://www.netmeridian.com/e-huss/queue-fix.tar.gz) I have found it useful to correct the queue when it gets corrupted. Stephen >> im getting a lot of queued emails and I was wondering how to stop or >> remove >> it from the queue. actually i have 900+ of these... > > You could try qmHandle (http://qmhandle.sourceforge.net/). I've used > it before, and I think it gives you the option of cleaning out the > queue. > > Ian > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 16:29:22 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:29:22 -0500 Subject: why can't I unload usbcore? Message-ID: <1164126562.5517.30.camel@localhost> hi, I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent but sometimes persistent problem with sudpend-to-disk on my laptop, one which appears to have something to do with usb. so I'm trying to unload all the usb modules, but don't seem to be able to do that with usbcore. my procedureh ad been: modprobe -r ehci-hcd uhci-hcd hci_usb umount -l /proc/bus/usb (won't unmount unless I add the '-l' swich) modprobe -r usbcore with the last command I get a " FATAL: Module usbcore is in use." but I can't tell what's 'using' it. lsof | grep -i usb gives no results, for instance. any hints on how to figure this out? thanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 16:31:24 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:31:24 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1164126685.5517.33.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-20-11 at 18:33 -0500, Paul Nash wrote: > Jumping in late, without reading the first part of this. I haver a V551, a > Mac and MacOS' sync tool, which ties my address book and calendar to the > V551 via Bluetooth. > > I *can* be done. How easily is another matter. With the Mac you just pair > the phone, click "sync" and you're golden, but then you don't have > something to keep you busy for years and years :-) > ah sounds like you're cheating by using a mac. but may I also ask what the sync too lis -- is that part of macos, or a special tool for the v551? also you say you sync your calendar- - does the v551 havea calendar function? that would be pretty nice. matt > paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 16:51:00 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:51:00 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: <1164126685.5517.33.camel@localhost> References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> <1164126685.5517.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: >ah sounds like you're cheating by using a mac. Some may call it cheating. I call it being sensible. FreeBSD with the nicest GUI around, M$ Orifice ... > but may I also ask what >the sync too lis iSync. Part of the OS. > also you say you sync your calendar- - does the v551 havea >calendar function? that would be pretty nice. Yup. You can get to it in the phone via "office tools" -> "datebook". Not perfect, but useful. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 18:19:23 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:19:23 -0500 Subject: Q9 Networks Message-ID: <4563432B.9020205@rogers.com> Hey All, In a forum I hang out on, a company called Q9 networks (q9.com) was mentioned. Allegedly 6 years old. Is anyone familiar with them? Are they a 'new' company or did they arise out of the remainder of an old one, or a merger & aquisition, etc? I ask because I'm curious to find out who the technical principles are, and if I know anyone at the company, or anyone who's worked there. The name caught me by surprise; I wasn't immediately familiar with it. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 18:37:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:37:09 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <20061121103233.GA15347-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> <1164006571.13647.32.camel@stan64.site> <20061121103233.GA15347@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20061121183709.GP8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 05:32:33AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Stay away from low-end plasmas then. You'll see EDTV resolution > (852x480) and so-called HDTV resolutions of 1024x768, 1024x1024, and > even 1024x1080. Plasmas have enough other problems; these low-end > displays are killing their reputation. I haven't seen ads for an LCD > below 1366x768 for a long time, and 1920x1080 are starting to show up in > the 42 inch and higher sizes. Plasma also suffers from burn-in issues, and have a shorter expected life than an LCD. Plasma also uses more power than an LCD, although less than a CRT I believe. They are not on my list of future TV purchases. I think the only advantage of plasma now is that they come in bigger sizes than LCD, although that is slowly changing. LG recently showed of a 100" LCD, which is almost as big as the largest plasmas ever showed (103"). > Anything with lots of movement is better in "p" than in "i". This is > mostly sports, but can include "action movies". The reason is... > > - anything "p" (e.g. 720p) means "progrssive scan", i.e. the entire > picture is blasted out at once. The picture looks great. > > - 30 fps interlaced is actually 2 half-pictures 1/60th of a second > apart. 24 fps interlaced is actually 2 half-pictures 1/48th of a > second apart. If you have lots of fast movement, the half-pictures > a fraction of a second apart won't line up. The more-expensive TV > sets have motion-compensation algorithms just for this, but you can > only do so much. It is certainly better to avoid the picture tears to begin with rather than try to fix them after they have already occoured. > See http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/ for an idea what things are > like in the GTA. Looks like mostly 1080i, with some 720p. > > During the mailing-list outage, I did some looking. The AutumnWave > OnAir HDTV GT USB unit has been drawing rave reviews, but I couldn't > find any outfit in the US that would ship to Canada. I finally found a > Canadian reference at http://www.expansys.ca/p.aspx?i=140064 and was > able to place an order at a 416-area-code phone number. It took a > minute to figure out that when they asked for the "code number" they > meant the stock code, i.e. the "140064" > > It requires Windows (yeah, I know); XP Home is sufficient. The > AutumnWave actually loses some functionality under Windows MCE. I plan > to get a basic Dell with XP Home and a 320 gig drive. It'll be > dedicated as a PVR, and no internet use, so I'm not worried about > "Windows Security" (or lack thereof). I certainly won't buy anything that doesn't work with linux. I might still have XP installed on my machine, but I know I haven't booted anything but linux on it for at least 2 years, so I doubt I ever will. There are plenty of linux compatible HDTV receivers, and at least then you know you won't be stuck with a piece of hardware that won't work with a supported version of windows some time in the future. After all microsoft doesn't support them forever. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 18:38:52 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:38:52 -0500 Subject: Q9 Networks In-Reply-To: <4563432B.9020205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4563432B.9020205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20061121183852.GA15818@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 01:19:23PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > >In a forum I hang out on, a company called Q9 networks (q9.com) was >mentioned. Allegedly 6 years old. That sounds about right. I knew the guy who helped them get set up, and he talked about establishing their name and first data centre in the fall of 2000. He was proud of them name, coming from the phrase "four nines" of uptime. >Is anyone familiar with them? Are they a 'new' company or did they arise >out of the remainder of an old one, or a merger & aquisition, etc? I know a few people who have used them for high-availability websites - they spoke of a space with intense physical security. As I understand it, they have a high-bandwidth non-Bell trunk directly to Chicago, giving them one of the truly redundant connections in Toronto. This may be a myth, however - I have no firsthand knowledge. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 18:40:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:40:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <4563021A.7060505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4563021A.7060505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061121184044.GQ8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 08:41:46AM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >I think this might be your problem: > > > >http://tinyurl.com/ykazda > > > >/ducks for cover > > > >Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) > > > > Ouch! Hmm, yeah that's pretty harsh. I wouldn't use quite those words, but I would say about the same thing. :) Any system I run has standards. JDB does not get to try and force his standards on my system in violation of the standards I follow. I don't care how "secure" or "reliable" the software is. If it makes administration and maintenance a hassle, then it isn't worth it. There is always postfix or exim. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 20:14:24 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:14:24 -0800 Subject: Setting up encrypted partition (AES-loopback) Message-ID: <45635E20.1030605@mathstat.yorku.ca> Hey guys, sorry for the duplicate message, but the first time my message didn't get sent for a couple of days and then came out in the middle of a big dump of messages, which I think may be why no one responded to it, so I'm giving it another try. I'm using Debian Sarge. I've installed the loop-aes-utils, loop-aes-source, and loop-aes-ciphers-source commands, but they don't seem to come with any serious documentation (I can't even figure out what commands, if any, these packages are supposed to provide -- shouldn't apt-cache be able to tell you that? I can't figure out how.) What documentation there is talks about building the kernel from source. Why should I have to do that, given that loop-aes-utils is supposed to include a kernel module? I'd also really like an explanation, in general terms, of what happens when you have an encrypted partition. Do you provide the passphrase at mount time, or what? What if your /bin and /usr/bin are on the encrypted partition? Presumably you need to supply the passphrase at boot time, but does GRUB ask you for it, or what? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 20:21:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:21:44 -0500 Subject: Setting up encrypted partition (AES-loopback) In-Reply-To: <45635E20.1030605-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <45635E20.1030605@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20061121202144.GA16439@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:14:24PM -0800, Mike Oliver wrote: > Hey guys, sorry for the duplicate message, but the first time > my message didn't get sent for a couple of days and then came > out in the middle of a big dump of messages, which I think may > be why no one responded to it, so I'm giving it another try. > > I'm using Debian Sarge. I've installed the loop-aes-utils, > loop-aes-source, and loop-aes-ciphers-source commands, but they don't > seem to come with any serious documentation (I can't even figure out > what commands, if any, these packages are supposed to provide -- > shouldn't apt-cache be able to tell you that? I can't figure out how.) > > What documentation there is talks about building the kernel from > source. Why should I have to do that, given that loop-aes-utils is > supposed to include a kernel module? > > I'd also really like an explanation, in general terms, of what happens > when you have an encrypted partition. Do you provide the passphrase at > mount time, or what? What if your /bin and /usr/bin are on the > encrypted partition? Presumably you need to supply the passphrase at > boot time, but does GRUB ask you for it, or what? /usr/share/doc/loop-aes-source/README.* seems to cover how to build the driver using module-assistant, and how to use it for various setups, and things not to do with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 20:40:27 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:40:27 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061121154027.7d1903e7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:41:46 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > http://tinyurl.com/ykazda > > > > /ducks for cover > > > > Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) > > > > Ouch! ...meant no personal offense, of course, I just remembered reading that from a while ago and thinking 'whoa', for an Apache developer, that's pretty harsh. That was before I understood the whole Sendmail vs. Postfix, Emacs vs. Vi, etc. battles... Personally, whatever works for JM is fine by me! I'm sure he's glad to hear that ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Champion Pet Show Today Kids: See Toucan Sam's death mask -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 21:52:12 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:52:12 -0500 Subject: OT Javascript scrolling textarea Message-ID: Hey Everyone, This q is not specific to linux but I know there are quite a few people on the list who know javascript really well. I need to write some javascript which will scroll a textarea down to where the caret position is. So far the code I have works for IE but not Firefox. The code for firefrox is Note: inpu = textarea var ev = document.createEvent ('KeyEvents'); ev.initKeyEvent('keypress', true, true, window,false, false, false, false, 0,inpu.value.charCodeAt(pos-1)); inpu.dispatchEvent(ev); // causes the scrolling inpu.setSelectionRange(pos, pos); Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 22:44:16 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:44:16 -0500 Subject: Q9 Networks In-Reply-To: <20061121183852.GA15818-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <4563432B.9020205@rogers.com> <20061121183852.GA15818@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 11/21/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 01:19:23PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > > > >In a forum I hang out on, a company called Q9 networks (q9.com) was > >mentioned. Allegedly 6 years old. > > That sounds about right. I knew the guy who helped them get set up, and > he talked about establishing their name and first data centre in the > fall of 2000. He was proud of them name, coming from the phrase "four > nines" of uptime. > > >Is anyone familiar with them? Are they a 'new' company or did they arise > >out of the remainder of an old one, or a merger & aquisition, etc? > > I know a few people who have used them for high-availability websites - > they spoke of a space with intense physical security. As I > understand it, they have a high-bandwidth non-Bell trunk directly to > Chicago, giving them one of the truly redundant connections in Toronto. > This may be a myth, however - I have no firsthand knowledge. We've got some systems there, and that sounds pretty much like how things are. I'm not cleared to go in, so I haven't firsthand knowledge, but the notion that they offer high availability capabilities and heavy security is consistent with what we were interested in. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 22:44:36 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:44:36 -0500 Subject: Q9 Networks In-Reply-To: <20061121183852.GA15818-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <4563432B.9020205@rogers.com> <20061121183852.GA15818@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45638154.8010709@rogers.com> > That sounds about right. I knew the guy Man, it never ceases to amaze me what a small world this is :) Thanks for the info. > I know a few people who have used them for high-availability websites - > they spoke of a space with intense physical security. As I > understand it, they have a high-bandwidth non-Bell trunk directly to > Chicago, giving them one of the truly redundant connections in Toronto. > This may be a myth, however - I have no firsthand knowledge. Ah, I think I've heard of the place then... not by name, but as some crazy physical security folks. Though I could have sworn the word 'rhino' was mixed in somehow... feh, I'm probably just confused. You gotta like it when you don't need to rely on Bell as much ;) Apparently a guy on a bicycle forum I'm on works there, so I'll post back any good info. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 23:06:52 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:06:52 -0500 Subject: Q9 Networks In-Reply-To: <45638154.8010709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4563432B.9020205@rogers.com> <20061121183852.GA15818@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <45638154.8010709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4563868C.2000900@rogers.com> Well, looks to me like they have AS 12188 all to themselves, so they're alot bigger than I thought :) Gah, too many names to keep track of. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 23:32:44 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:32:44 -0500 Subject: does reporting spam to services like spamcop do any good? In-Reply-To: <20061120194837.1e1baa43-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200611161415.18202.ican@netrover.com> <20061120164443.GL8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20061120194837.1e1baa43@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990611211532o4a96d096k1cd93f543df20897@mail.gmail.com> On 11/20/06, JoeHill wrote: > David e-mailed me the next day to ask why I unsubbed, and if it was because I > was having any problems. Wow, that's cool. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 21 21:14:31 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:14:31 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> <1164126685.5517.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1164143671.7389.44.camel@localhost> paul, made some progress here; I can now discover and bind to the phone successfully from my compuuter. I've also found a veyr short howto which suggests using multsync to sync the phone to evolution (that would be great for me if itworked). I started up multisync and it too can find the phone, but it looks for what it calls a "sync channel" on the phone, and doesn's see one -- the precise output is "no IRMC sync channel found". using sdptool, I foulnd a way to list the channels on a device (sdptool browse phone-mac-address) and discovered that in fact there seems to be no such channel. so I'm wondering whether you had to enter a sync channel from isync and if so what number you're using. you're right, if I had macos I'd be hard=pressed to fill up my empty days... matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 07:31:08 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:31:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: <20061121022859.710efef6-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: | From: JoeHill | http://tinyurl.com/ykazda DJB is many things. But he certainly isn't a moron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 11:49:56 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 06:49:56 -0500 Subject: too many phone books! In-Reply-To: <1164143671.7389.44.camel@localhost> References: <1163963564.5517.6.camel@localhost> <4561A27D.9050209@videotron.ca> <1164060052.5517.11.camel@localhost> <1164126685.5517.33.camel@localhost> <1164143671.7389.44.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > I'm wondering whether you had to enter >a sync channel from isync and if so what number you're using. Nope. Bluetooth -> discover -> phone -> v551 (setup part). iSync -> sync (operations). That's it. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner-k8+l4Qd5hq73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 16:15:42 2006 From: dgardiner-k8+l4Qd5hq73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Daniel Gardiner) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:15:42 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <20061118193801.GA9577-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <456477AE.1000502@inofas.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Linux Journal mentioned a company a few issues back, www.cosmoseng.com, that will build MythTV boxes. Daniel Walter Dnes wrote: > I'd like to record HDTV off the air. I've got an HDTV tuner hooked up > to my 19" NTSC TV. The picture quality is stunning, even on an analog > TV. I'm looking at getting a real HDTV after the Superbowl, as prices > continue to slide. > > So my question is... can I buy an HDTV VCR or a ready-to-go HDTV PVR > that works out-of-the-box? I'm not picky, as long as it doesn't involve > a subscription, like TIVO. I want to be in control of my own destiny. > I won't be connecting to the internet with it, so even Windows is safe > (I did say I wasn't picky). I would prefer linux with MythTV or > whatever, but I'm getting too lazy to "enjoy the adventure" of building > my own, and I'm willing to pay extra to have it ready to go. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFZHepMkKsJUJU3poRAv5xAJ0abGM68bussLingjviXM3eKN/pxACeIKq6 9jALQS6ELH4CMx19M29saD0= =Hcy0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 17:44:37 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:44:37 -0500 Subject: OT Javascript scrolling textarea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/21/06, Randy Jonasz wrote: > This q is not specific to linux but I know there are quite a few > people on the list who know javascript really well. I need to write > some javascript which will scroll a textarea down to where the caret > position is. So far the code I have works for IE but not Firefox. Well the solution to my problem was too simple. All I needed to do is call setTimeout("document.forms[0].txtarea.scrollTop="document.forms[0].txtarea.value.length",0); after i updated the textarea. Man there are days when the feeling of being dumb is matched by behaviour. :) Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 21:04:44 2006 From: shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:04:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upcoming talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21168790.3291164229484527.OPEN-XCHANGE.WebMail.tomcat@sauerkraut> On Nov 13, 2006 01:07 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: >Hi all. Well it's time to arrange talks for December 2006 and beyond. >All spots are open at the moment. I'd like to trial a tutorial format >for >the November 2006 meeting and want to even run a debate for one meeting >in >the future. I organised a debate for another user group once and it was >a >lot of fun for all involved. > >So if you have a burning desire to talk at GTALUG please contact me and >nominate 2 or 3 preferred dates. For reference here are the next few >meeting dates: > >12 Dec 2006 >9 Jan 2007 >13 Feb 2007 >13 Mar 2007 >10 Apr 2007 >8 May 2007 > >Cheers, > >Rob > >-- >Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 >Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 >OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org >Web: www.opentrend.net >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I would be happy to present at TLUG. 1. I am not a revision control expert, but could do some research and present my findings at a future lecture 2. I could present something with regards to virtualization ( work at VMware, so may have some bias). I am open to suggestions. 3. I could re-present a tutorial on writing a USB device driver that I attended at OLS -- this would probably not be a good talk, as it is long and only of interest to a small set? 4. I could present on using GDB to unwrap core files and debug them -- probably bore most people to death. However the information is very useful when you do need it. Thoughts? Cheers, -Joseph- Powered by Open-Xchange.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 21:29:44 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: webalizer and localhost and network access Message-ID: http://192.168.10.50/usage You don't have permission to access /usage/ on this server. 127.0.0.1/usage brings up webalizer reports i do not run a gui on 192.168.10.50, (but i can read the reports with elink) However I would greatly prefer to read them on my local network 192.168.10.X Tried disabling SeLinux.nada Tried http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap29sec266.html (nada) Tried chmod and chown on /var/www/html/usage (nada) Tried removing and reinstalling webalizer (nada) Tried restarting apache after each change (nada) (sometimes i would reboot ie. after SeLinux change) no iptables, no firewall running Any ideas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 21:47:20 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:47:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upcoming talks In-Reply-To: <21168790.3291164229484527.OPEN-XCHANGE.WebMail.tomcat@sauerkraut> References: <21168790.3291164229484527.OPEN-XCHANGE.WebMail.tomcat@sauerkraut> Message-ID: <50744.207.188.66.125.1164232040.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > 3. I could re-present a tutorial on writing a USB device driver that I > attended at OLS -- this would probably not be a good talk, as it is long > and only of interest to a small set? Maybe some of the people on this list remember the 70's phrase "A friend with weed is a friend indeed'. Anyone who can make sense of USB interfacing is my friend indeed, so I'd vote for that topic. There are probably EE's that would attend if they knew about it. (I could post a notice to the IEEE membership if this took place). I gave a talk a while ago on how to *avoid* the gruesome details of USB by making the USB connection look like a serial port (using Tcl/Tk). My enthusiasm for the details of USB is unvarnished self-interest, so the other topics might be of more interest to the group. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 23:11:17 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:11:17 -0500 Subject: OT: Qmail help In-Reply-To: References: <200611211153.59840.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20061121022859.710efef6@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061122181117.3cdc2011@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:31:08 -0500 (EST) D. Hugh Redelmeier got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > DJB is many things. But he certainly isn't a moron. Did not say he was, don't know him from Adam. Hell, *I* can't even write a shell script, so if anyone's a moron... Just yankin' JM's chain, pretty stupid I know, since he's probably heard it a million times. Just that every time I see 'help with qmail', I think of that post on the Apache list. Impulse control is not one of my stronger traits, gotta work on that :-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: Perhaps it's your outlook that need a good bend, a ninety degree bend to a place where happiness is perpendicular to wonderment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 22 23:35:56 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:35:56 -0500 Subject: Upcoming talks In-Reply-To: <50744.207.188.66.125.1164232040.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <21168790.3291164229484527.OPEN-XCHANGE.WebMail.tomcat@sauerkraut> <50744.207.188.66.125.1164232040.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20061122233555.GA8251@wp.magstar.net> On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 04:47:20PM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > 3. I could re-present a tutorial on writing a USB device driver that I > > attended at OLS -- this would probably not be a good talk, as it is long > > and only of interest to a small set? > > Maybe some of the people on this list remember the 70's phrase "A friend > with weed is a friend indeed'. Anyone who can make sense of USB > interfacing is my friend indeed, so I'd vote for that topic. There are > probably EE's that would attend if they knew about it. (I could post a > notice to the IEEE membership if this took place). > > I gave a talk a while ago on how to *avoid* the gruesome details of USB by > making the USB connection look like a serial port (using Tcl/Tk). > > My enthusiasm for the details of USB is unvarnished self-interest, so the > other topics might be of more interest to the group. My vote also. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 00:20:16 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:20:16 -0500 Subject: Novell Microsoft, Redux In-Reply-To: <20061120135558.77431.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061120135558.77431.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Take a look at the big picture here: Microsoft enters a patent cross-licensing agreement in which the net result is that Microsoft _pays_ Novell. Microsoft then goes on to state that they made the deal because they wanted to cash in on their IP, which Linux uses! So, basically, Microsoft has made a deal wherein they pay Novell and try to direct business to them, and in return, they are provided with plenty of FUD ammunition from what ostensibly is the purpose of the deal. Novell sells out, Microsoft spreads FUD, and everybody else gets confused. I'd suspected this a couple of days after the deal was announced, after reading a negative opinion or two, but now I would say that it's clear that this was the intended purpose of the deal. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 00:29:37 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:29:37 -0500 Subject: webalizer and localhost and network access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200611221929.37736.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 22 November 2006 16:29, Teddy David Mills wrote: > http://192.168.10.50/usage > You don't have permission to access /usage/ on this server. >[...] > Any ideas? I bet it might be a matter of web server configuration. Unless you have a sort of /usage/index.html there. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 02:58:45 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:58:45 -0500 Subject: Mildly OT: CF Network card ... cheap Message-ID: <1f13df280611221858q3adba19aubbfea8139d432154@mail.gmail.com> My brother is toying with an old iPaq, and one thing that would make it a lot more fun to play with is a Compact Flash network card - wireless is preferred, but we'd consider wired if the price was right. Anybody know where to locate one of these exotic items in our fine city for a reasonable price? I guess we're looking for something in the $20-$40 range, used is fine, preferably at a bricks and mortar store or from someone on the list with an extra. Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 03:16:08 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:16:08 -0500 Subject: Mildly OT: CF Network card ... cheap In-Reply-To: <1f13df280611221858q3adba19aubbfea8139d432154-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280611221858q3adba19aubbfea8139d432154@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611221916v25c6747ld581ed04c5c8e09d@mail.gmail.com> On 11/22/06, Giles Orr wrote: > My brother is toying with an old iPaq, and one thing that would make > it a lot more fun to play with is a Compact Flash network card - > wireless is preferred, but we'd consider wired if the price was right. > Anybody know where to locate one of these exotic items in our fine > city for a reasonable price? I guess we're looking for something in > the $20-$40 range, used is fine, preferably at a bricks and mortar > store or from someone on the list with an extra. Thanks. I am also looking for a cf wireless card, and have a list of brands and models which are known to work with my palmtop. http://jrandomhacker.info/Sharp_Zaurus_SL-series/accessories#Wireless When I walked through the Spadina strip briefly, I wasn't really able to find anyone who had cf wireless cards, letalone what I was looking for. Is eBay the best place to shop for these somewhat older models? Is there a brick-and-mortar shop that carries this sort of stuff, which is TTC-accssible? (one day, it'll be the LinuxCaffe) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 03:37:21 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:37:21 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? Message-ID: <45651771.80906@telly.org> I think this is "google video" format, and it's giving me headaches. I have the win32 and a bunch of other codecs loaded. Kaffeine and Xine will play the files' video but not audio. Mplayer will play video and audio it but won't recognize FLVs as video files. ffmpeg says it recognizes the format but gives me errors when I try to convert flv files to mpg. Does anyone here have suggestions on 1) how to get xine to play the video 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another format Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 03:49:53 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:49:53 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <45651771.80906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061122224953.5000f059@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:37:21 -0500 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another format Whoa. That's weird. I just happened to be reading this: http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/22/2121258&tid=39 ...was linked to (indirectly) on Newsforge yesterday: http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/13/2130233 -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: I'm not a robot like you. I don't like having disks crammed into me... unless they're Oreos, and then only in the mouth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 03:59:22 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:59:22 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? Message-ID: <45651C9A.8070800@rogers.com> > I think this is "google video" format, and it's giving me headaches. .flv is Flash Video from Macromedia and is the common format on YouTube Mepis plays these files just fine, so you probably need the latest version of the Flash Player. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 07:22:36 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:22:36 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <20061122224953.5000f059-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <20061122224953.5000f059@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45654C3C.1000007@telly.org> JoeHill wrote: > On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:37:21 -0500 > Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > >> 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another format >> > > Whoa. That's weird. I just happened to be reading this: > > http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/22/2121258&tid=39 > Boy, that was a quick answer... thanks! FYI, I followed the instructions and it works ... sorta. The script mentioned can create DIVX or XVID codec avi files. I used the Michael Richards meltdown video from YouTube as my sample. Here are the file sizes: richards1.flv 6861361 (original file) richards1-xvid.avi 10553674 richards1-divx.avi 11180502 Even with the larger sizes, the conversion process loses many frames and the video and audio get out of sync pretty quickly. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 13:54:50 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:54:50 -0500 Subject: Mildly OT: CF Network card ... cheap In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611221916v25c6747ld581ed04c5c8e09d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611221916v25c6747ld581ed04c5c8e09d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: aHR0cDovL2JiZi5jYS9zZWFyY2hfcmVzdWx0X2Fkcy5hc3A/cT13aXJlbGVzcytmbGFzaCZwaWQ9 MzkmbWlkPTY5ODAmcG49TmV0d29ya2luZyZtbz0xJmFkcz02JnRvPTEwJnBnPTEmZm9ybWF0PTEN Cg0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KSmFzb24gU2hlaW4NCk5ldHdvcmsgQWRt aW5pc3RyYXRvciDigJMgTGludXggU3lzdGVtcw0KSW92YXRlIEhlYWx0aCBTY2llbmNlcyBJbmMu DQo1MTAwIFNwZWN0cnVtIFdheQ0KTWlzc2lzc2F1Z2EsIE9OIEw0VyA1UzIgDQooIDkwNSApIC0g Njc4IC0gMzExOSAgIHggMzEzNg0KMSAtIDg4OCAtIDMzNCAtIDQ0NDgsICAgIHggMzEzNiAodG9s bC1mcmVlKQ0KamFzb24uc2hlaW5AaW92YXRlLmNvbSANCg0KQ3VzdG9tZXIgU2VydmljZS4gQ29s bGFib3JhdGlvbi4gSW5ub3ZhdGlvbi4gRWZmaWNpZW5jeS4gDQpJb3ZhdGUncyBJbmZvcm1hdGlv biBUZWNobm9sb2d5IFRlYW0gDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KQ09ORklERU5U SUFMSVRZIE5PVElDRTogDQpUSElTIEVMRUNUUk9OSUMgTUFJTCBUUkFOU01JU1NJT04gSVMgUFJJ VklMRUdFRCBBTkQgQ09ORklERU5USUFMIEFORCBJUw0KSU5URU5ERUQgT05MWSBGT1IgVEhFIFJF VklFVyBPRiBUSEUgUEFSVFkgVE8gV0hPTSBJVCBJUyBBRERSRVNTRUQuIA0KVEhFIElORk9STUFU SU9OIENPTlRBSU5FRCBJTiBUSElTIEUtTUFJTCBJUyBDT05GSURFTlRJQUwgQU5EIElTIERJU0NM T1NFRA0KVE8gWU9VIFVOREVSIFRIRSBFWFBSRVNTIFVOREVSU1RBTkRJTkcgVEhBVCBZT1UgV0lM TCBOT1QgRElTQ0xPU0UgSVQNCk9SIElUUyBDT05URU5UUyBUTyBBTlkgVEhJUkQgUEFSVFkgV0lU SE9VVCBUSEUgRVhQUkVTUyBXUklUVEVOIENPTlNFTlQNCk9GIEFOIEFVVEhPUklaRUQgT0ZGSUNF UiBPRiBJT1ZBVEUgSEVBTFRIIFNDSUVOQ0VTIFNFUlZJQ0VTIElOQy4gSUYgWU9VIA0KSEFWRQ0K UkVDRUlWRUQgVEhJUyBUUkFOU01JU1NJT04gSU4gRVJST1IsIFBMRUFTRSBJTU1FRElBVEVMWSBS RVRVUk4gSVQgDQpUTyBUSEUgU0VOREVSLg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQoNCg0K IlN5IEFsaSIgPHN5MTIzNEBnbWFpbC5jb20+IA0KU2VudCBieTogb3duZXItdGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmcN CjExLzIyLzIwMDYgMTA6MTYgUE0NClBsZWFzZSByZXNwb25kIHRvDQp0bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KDQoN ClRvDQp0bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KY2MNCg0KU3ViamVjdA0KUmU6IFtUTFVHXTogTWlsZGx5IE9UOiBD RiBOZXR3b3JrIGNhcmQgLi4uIGNoZWFwDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpPbiAxMS8yMi8wNiwgR2lsZXMg T3JyIDxnaWxlc29yckBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBNeSBicm90aGVyIGlzIHRveWluZyB3 aXRoIGFuIG9sZCBpUGFxLCBhbmQgb25lIHRoaW5nIHRoYXQgd291bGQgbWFrZQ0KPiBpdCBhIGxv dCBtb3JlIGZ1biB0byBwbGF5IHdpdGggaXMgYSBDb21wYWN0IEZsYXNoIG5ldHdvcmsgY2FyZCAt DQo+IHdpcmVsZXNzIGlzIHByZWZlcnJlZCwgYnV0IHdlJ2QgY29uc2lkZXIgd2lyZWQgaWYgdGhl IHByaWNlIHdhcyByaWdodC4NCj4gIEFueWJvZHkga25vdyB3aGVyZSB0byBsb2NhdGUgb25lIG9m IHRoZXNlIGV4b3RpYyBpdGVtcyBpbiBvdXIgZmluZQ0KPiBjaXR5IGZvciBhIHJlYXNvbmFibGUg cHJpY2U/ICBJIGd1ZXNzIHdlJ3JlIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIHNvbWV0aGluZyBpbg0KPiB0aGUgJDIw LSQ0MCByYW5nZSwgdXNlZCBpcyBmaW5lLCBwcmVmZXJhYmx5IGF0IGEgYnJpY2tzIGFuZCBtb3J0 YXINCj4gc3RvcmUgb3IgZnJvbSBzb21lb25lIG9uIHRoZSBsaXN0IHdpdGggYW4gZXh0cmEuICBU aGFua3MuDQoNCkkgYW0gYWxzbyBsb29raW5nIGZvciBhIGNmIHdpcmVsZXNzIGNhcmQsIGFuZCBo YXZlIGEgbGlzdCBvZiBicmFuZHMNCmFuZCBtb2RlbHMgd2hpY2ggYXJlIGtub3duIHRvIHdvcmsg d2l0aCBteSBwYWxtdG9wLg0KDQpodHRwOi8vanJhbmRvbWhhY2tlci5pbmZvL1NoYXJwX1phdXJ1 c19TTC1zZXJpZXMvYWNjZXNzb3JpZXMjV2lyZWxlc3MNCg0KV2hlbiBJIHdhbGtlZCB0aHJvdWdo IHRoZSBTcGFkaW5hIHN0cmlwIGJyaWVmbHksIEkgd2Fzbid0IHJlYWxseSBhYmxlDQp0byBmaW5k IGFueW9uZSB3aG8gaGFkIGNmIHdpcmVsZXNzIGNhcmRzLCBsZXRhbG9uZSB3aGF0IEkgd2FzIGxv b2tpbmcNCmZvci4gIElzIGVCYXkgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8gc2hvcCBmb3IgdGhlc2Ugc29t ZXdoYXQgb2xkZXIgbW9kZWxzPw0KDQpJcyB0aGVyZSBhIGJyaWNrLWFuZC1tb3J0YXIgc2hvcCB0 aGF0IGNhcnJpZXMgdGhpcyBzb3J0IG9mIHN0dWZmLA0Kd2hpY2ggaXMgVFRDLWFjY3NzaWJsZT8N Cg0KKG9uZSBkYXksIGl0J2xsIGJlIHRoZSBMaW51eENhZmZlKQ0KLS0NClRoZSBUb3JvbnRvIExp bnV4IFVzZXJzIEdyb3VwLiAgICAgIE1lZXRpbmdzOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy8NClRMVUcg cmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVt bnMNCkhvdyB0byBVTlNVQlNDUklCRTogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvd2lraS9NYWlsaW5nX2xp c3RzDQoNCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 16:02:02 2006 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:02:02 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <45651771.80906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> (Evan Leibovitch's message of "Wed\, 22 Nov 2006 22\:37\:21 -0500") References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> Message-ID: <87d57e40ed.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 22 Nov 2006, evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I think this is "google video" format, and it's giving me headaches. No, flv is Flash video. > Mplayer will play video and audio it but won't recognize FLVs as video > files. Strange, mplayer have been able to play flv file for quite a while now. I have no problems with any flv files that I have encountered on the Net (e.g.: youtube). I guess it depends on the mplayer version you have and how it is built. My mplayer is self compiled from svn and the version is: MPlayer dev-SVN-r20497-3.3.3 According to the CHANGELOG from mplayer, the flv support was add in: MPLayer 1.0pre7: "PatentCounter" dated April 16, 2005. The support comes from avformat in the ffmpeg version included in the mplayer source. > Does anyone here have suggestions on > 1) how to get xine to play the video Try compiling it with a nore recent version of ffmpeg from svn: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/download.html > 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another > format If you can't get them to play, there is no point in trying to convert them. :-) Charles -- "It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God." (By Matt Welsh) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 16:52:42 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:52:42 -0500 Subject: Mp3 player running Linux Message-ID: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8@mail.gmail.com> Turbolinux Wizpy MP3 Player. 4GB of flash memory. Comes preinstalled with Firefox, Thunderbird, and Skype. Features of the Wizpy include 1.71 inch color OLED display, OGG,MP3, WMA and AAC audio format support, DivX video support, FM radio, voice recorder and 10 hour battery life. Measurements of the Wizpy are 84?42?12mm. http://www.i4u.com/article7177.html http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/11/turbolinux-wizpy-mp3-player-and-linux-to-boot.php http://www.turbolinux.co.jp/products/wizpy/ It'll sell for around 30k yen ($255 USD) in February. I think I know of way to get it bought from Japan.. the same way I bought my Zaurus. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 17:19:05 2006 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:19:05 -0500 Subject: Mp3 player running Linux In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Sy Ali's message of "Thu\, 23 Nov 2006 11\:52\:42 -0500") References: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <878xi23wty.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 23 Nov 2006, sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Turbolinux Wizpy MP3 Player. > > 4GB of flash memory. Comes preinstalled with Firefox, Thunderbird, > and Skype. Cool, thanks for the info. Do you know what processor does it use? I can't seem to find this info, even on the turbolinux product page. Also, do you know if it support "replay gain"? Charles -- printk(KERN_INFO MYNAM ": English readable SCSI-3 strings enabled :-)\n"); linux-2.6.6/drivers/message/fusion/mptbase.c -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 17:25:45 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:25:45 -0500 Subject: Mp3 player running Linux In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Firefox running on a flash-based mp3 player with acceptable response? I'll believe it when I see it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 19:05:12 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:05:12 -0500 Subject: Mp3 player running Linux In-Reply-To: <878xi23wty.fsf-HasXQTlsvt1ah8WM/F5+tg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8@mail.gmail.com> <878xi23wty.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <1e55af990611231105v190fad89g28c39a44549afbb@mail.gmail.com> On 11/23/06, Charles philip Chan wrote: > Cool, thanks for the info. Do you know what processor does it use? I > can't seem to find this info, even on the turbolinux product page. Also, > do you know if it support "replay gain"? No, I don't know what processor it uses. I'm betting it's ARM-based, around the 400Mhz equivalent range, but that's a guess.. some of the toys that have been coming out of Japan are pretty awesome. Translating hasn't helped much, either: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbolinux.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Fwizpy%2F "Without installing the special software to the personal computer, in your own sufficient personal computer!" .. hmm. =/ I've no idea about replay gain.. But it's a computer, and the mp3 player is probably software-based.. so you might be able to recompile your favourite player and use it. On 11/23/06, Simon wrote: > Firefox running on a flash-based mp3 player with acceptable response? > I'll believe it when I see it. Well, when firefox is dog slow on a 1.5Ghz system.. well.. maybe it's a palmtop version of it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 20:30:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:30:13 -0500 Subject: why can't I unload usbcore? In-Reply-To: <1164126562.5517.30.camel@localhost> References: <1164126562.5517.30.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20061123203013.GB16439@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 11:29:22AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent but sometimes persistent problem > with sudpend-to-disk on my laptop, one which appears to have something > to do with usb. so I'm trying to unload all the usb modules, but don't > seem to be able to do that with usbcore. my procedureh ad been: > > modprobe -r ehci-hcd uhci-hcd hci_usb > umount -l /proc/bus/usb (won't unmount unless I add the '-l' swich) > modprobe -r usbcore > > with the last command I get a " FATAL: Module usbcore is in use." > > but I can't tell what's 'using' it. > lsof | grep -i usb gives no results, for instance. > > any hints on how to figure this out? lsmod|grep usbcore modules aren't files (in terms of how they are used). lsof won't show them. Once every usb module is unloaded, you should be able to remove usbcore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 20:57:38 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:57:38 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <45651771.80906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> On 11/22/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Kaffeine and Xine will play the files' video but not audio. > Mplayer will play video and audio it but won't recognize FLVs as video > files. > ffmpeg says it recognizes the format but gives me errors when I try to > convert flv files to mpg. > > Does anyone here have suggestions on > 1) how to get xine to play the video > 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another format I use the 'youtube-dl' script to download the videos: http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/11/197251&tid=47 ...and ffmpeg converts the *.flv files to *.avi files: ffmpeg -i .flv .avi Audio and video are synced in Kaffeine, xine, mplayer, etc. My version of ffmpeg is a debian pkg, ver. 20060814-0.3 -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build_it_yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 21:21:33 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:21:33 -0500 Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets Message-ID: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> I looking for a way to pass live data from a data logging application into an Open Office Calc spreadsheet. Google didn't yield many clues other than there may be Python hooks available in v2.x. Any ideas? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 22:02:50 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:02:50 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <45654C3C.1000007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <20061122224953.5000f059@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45654C3C.1000007@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061123170250.746c781c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:22:36 -0500 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/22/2121258&tid=39 > > > > Boy, that was a quick answer... thanks! Yeah, it was weird, I was meaning to look at that article a coupla days ago, but never got around to it. As soon as I start reading, your question pops up. I guess there is something to synchronicity ;-) > FYI, I followed the instructions and it works ... sorta. > The script mentioned can create DIVX or XVID codec avi files. > > I used the Michael Richards meltdown video from YouTube as my sample. > > Here are the file sizes: > richards1.flv 6861361 (original file) > richards1-xvid.avi 10553674 > richards1-divx.avi 11180502 > > Even with the larger sizes, the conversion process loses many frames and > the video and audio get out of sync pretty quickly. Dang, I had high hopes... ;-) Yeah, I've never had much luck with these files, which is why I wanted to read the article. I usually use Tovid [1], which will convert pretty much *anything* that even remotely resembles video into NTSC MPEG's. flv's turned out okay, but as you say, the sound tended to drift out of sync. I usually just end up trying to find the vid on bittorrent now, if I want it bad enough. My only suggestions: once you have the .avi's, run tcprobe on them. You'll probably see that the total frames, fps, and duration, don't 'add up' (see 'man avisplit'). One thing that has *sometimes* worked for me in the past is to: transcode -i in.avi -P1 -N 0x1 -y raw -o out.avi You end up with a much bigger .avi, but I've found in *some* cases this fixes the audio drift. If you are a sucker for punishment (I actually did this with a 2 hour movie), and you really really want a copy of this vid, you can even split the resulting transcoded avi into small chunks (doesn't have *time* to drift out of sync, dig?), then use Tovid to convert them all to mpg's, and rejoin them with the makexml script (part of Tovid) makexml -group 1.mpg 2.mpg 3.mpg, etc. -endgroup out.xml This will give you one 'title' which can be burned to DVD. You'll see, if you're watching closely, the 'joins', but with a youtube vid, I don't think that will be an issue ;) Oh why oh why can't everyone just use a standard, open, video format?? [1] http://tovid.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Calculon: I just pray they like me half as much as I do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 22:24:37 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:24:37 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <20061123170250.746c781c-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <20061122224953.5000f059@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45654C3C.1000007@telly.org> <20061123170250.746c781c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: that reminds me, last time I needed to convert an flv file, I used ffmpeg2theora instead of avi :) On 11/23/06, JoeHill wrote: > Oh why oh why can't everyone just use a standard, open, video format?? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 22:27:16 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:27:16 -0500 Subject: Mp3 player running Linux In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611231105v190fad89g28c39a44549afbb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611230852x44c8ee13kedf21acc2d43d7e8@mail.gmail.com> <878xi23wty.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <1e55af990611231105v190fad89g28c39a44549afbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's more the memory usage that would be an issue than the cpu speed, I think, especially for you, since I know for a fact that firefox runs decently on a system with less than half the CPU power yours has, given enough free memory. On 11/23/06, Sy Ali wrote: > Well, when firefox is dog slow on a 1.5Ghz system.. well.. maybe it's > a palmtop version of it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 23 22:47:57 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:47:57 -0500 Subject: Looking for a real email client In-Reply-To: <20061121032741.36751285-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990611151926g393d36cchd3ee16bf4b743b99@mail.gmail.com> <20061121032741.36751285@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: I'm not sure, but you might be able to just take an html file and paste it into a text mail client. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 01:28:55 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:28:55 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The exact same thing you'd see on a 32-bit CPU running a 32 bit kernel. As an example, I'm running x86 (ie. 32-bit) Ubuntu: $ uname -a Linux Simon80 2.6.17-10-generic #2 SMP Fri Oct 13 18:45:35 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux On 11/20/06, Paul Mora wrote: > So what would I see on, for example, a 64-bit [CPU] running a 32-bit kernel? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 01:30:23 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:30:23 -0500 Subject: 32 bit vs. 64 bit kernel In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30611200655s35419bf5obe305aa90ff21722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: sorry for the double post, but to be clear, I'm running on an Athlon 64. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 04:30:40 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 23:30:40 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <20061122224953.5000f059@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45654C3C.1000007@telly.org> <20061123170250.746c781c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061123233040.233a23ad@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:24:37 -0500 Simon got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > that reminds me, last time I needed to convert an flv file, I used > ffmpeg2theora instead of avi :) Yeah, I saw that...had no idea what the heck 'theora' was, gonna go google now, thanks for reminding me :-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Star Tours Note: bus does not leave earth -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 04:32:37 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 23:32:37 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <87d57e40ed.fsf-HasXQTlsvt1ah8WM/F5+tg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <87d57e40ed.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <20061123233237.1776e469@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:02:02 -0500 Charles philip Chan got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > "It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God." rofl -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "Blackmail's such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sound cool." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 04:53:43 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 23:53:43 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061123235343.3b530417@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:57:38 -0500 Daniel Armstrong got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > ...and ffmpeg converts the *.flv files to *.avi files: > > ffmpeg -i .flv .avi This actually worked fairly well, clip wasn't long enough to see if the sound drifted, but the sound was kinda choppy in MPlayer. Line after line of this from MPlayer: alsa-space: xrun of at least 0.077 msecs. resetting stream0.9% 10 0 30% However, Xine plays it without any complaints. Weird. Oh, and this was the vid (Mr. Garrison explaining Evolution): http://youtube.com/watch?v=sDs6e4uhqnE I've seen it about six times, I still can't help laughing my ass off. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: Those delightful birds with their chirp chirp chirp and their tweet tweet splat. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 05:05:07 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 00:05:07 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <20061123235343.3b530417-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> <20061123235343.3b530417@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20061124000507.6aab090b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 23:53:43 -0500 JoeHill got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > This actually worked fairly well, clip wasn't long enough to see if the sound > drifted, but the sound was kinda choppy in MPlayer. Line after line of this > from MPlayer: > > alsa-space: xrun of at least 0.077 msecs. resetting stream0.9% 10 0 30% > > However, Xine plays it without any complaints. Weird. ...even stranger, Tovid, which uses mplayer (mencoder?) by default for reencoding (can use ffmpeg, much faster), spit out a relatively high quality mpg (720X480), no choppy sound, no sync probs. I think my sound-card setup (in re ALSA) is a bit screwy :-\ Hmmm. Snag enough of these and I could make a DVD of them all, with thumbnails... Like I have spare time... ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Applied Cryogenics: It seems to work OK. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 16:02:35 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 24 Nov 2006 11:02:35 -0500 Subject: Some fun with LPI [was LPIC-3 Job Task Analysis has started] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, In case you weren't aware, the Linux Professional Institute has been working on the level 3 certification for Linux professionals. There's a survey for anyone that is interested to help determine the relative importance of the various topics and objectives being covered. Read on if you'd like to participate in the survey. Regards, -- matt "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > Hi everyone, > > The JTA software has finally been published with the LPIC-3 job tasks for > everyone to help vote on. > > > What is the purpose of the Job Task Analysis (JTA) survey? > > The JTA survey is being performed so that LPI can determine how much > coverage is required for each objective on the LPIC-3 exams. The tasks > that are being reviewed will provide the psychometrician with the data > that is needed to make this determination (these are the weights that > you have seen on the LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 exams). > > For each job task, you will be asked to comment on: > > - how often the specific task is performed (or understanding of > a concept is required) > - how important it is to know this task or concept > > The JTA survey should be taken by anyone that is in this role in the > profession or has knowledge of the tasks involved in this role; such > as managers and project planners. > > > Bonus for Linux Professionals Helping with the JTA > > As an incentive for people to help with the JTA survey, we will > randomly award one (1) of one hundred (100) LPIC-3 exam vouchers to > Linux professionals that complete the entire LPIC-3 JTA (currently, > there are 365 tasks in the survey). > > These vouchers will be usable at any exam lab the LPI holds at various > worldwide events such as LinuxWorld, IT360, and other regional events. > Sorry, we cannot make these vouchers valid at the computer-based testing > centres. If you cannot attend any LPI exam labs, you can transfer the > voucher to another LPI candidate and they are valid until Dec 31, 2008. > > We anticipate that 300-400 Linux professionals will participate in this > survey. > > The eligibility period for this draw ends on December 9th, 2006. > > > The Minimally Qualified Candidate (MQC) > > The MQC is a description of the Linux professional that would be > able to pass the LPIC-3 exams. This description should be read before > starting the survey. > > The full description is at: > > https://group.lpi.org/publicwiki/bin/view/Examdev/LPIC-3#The_Minimally_Qualified_Candidat > > > The Location of the JTA > > The JTA is available at: https://www.lpi.org/caf/Xamdev/jta > > You will need to provide your LPI username and password. This is so > that we may track your progress through the task list. It also means > that you do not have to finish the JTA survey in one pass. Just return > when you are able and you will only have to review the tasks that you > have not seen already. > > Using your username and password also lets us find you if you are one > of the Linux professionals awards the LPIC-3 exam voucher (see above). > > Regards and happy surveying, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 18:51:44 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:51:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nov 28 NewTLUG meeting: Xen Virtualization and more Command Line 101 Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Nov 28th., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** This meeting is free and all are welcome, however, all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ), preferably by Monday Nov 27. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date: Tues Sept 26, Time: 7-10pm Topics: 1) Xen Virtualization: see below. 2) "Command Line 101" ...a look at and discussion of useful or essential command line commands or operations. The tentative topic for this month is: "shell expansion" ie: > wildcards etc, > what to do when they fail (xargs, find...|, perl's readdir etc) also practical limits to directory sizes > scope of expansion (ie what gets passed to the command - esp. if the expansion does not match any entries in the working dir) Presenter(s): 1) Paul Mora and 2) TBA Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=nGCyq1371PhhgCmx6Z%2b1cDMK7StVSEOC8pv6WLEwpPl4J5csVKolXMC1br3AveG47eAtFWeuZ%2bwJ2KM5Oq7LBuLnoWwdmj0b8XrxuhJWdRt2Mc4gVOIEVqcICHRlLm6XTuuZzJMzAZAf3OoErhbEoEZ9FStAjnRb7vrPmDxfzc6Dkdp3pAlh6ZFovnxcYwyt1e0eUfOZpFdN4rspAMvur8zk2XOMgoEZ6s2G1gxGZI6fILrLIfssN9UqLRPAuYnV84Fbwn7amW8Y%2fM6NeCfvcJVGtRhNNBCahqzxnGwYk6G9JBDVKNwGC7biOuwnI5nkx95wKeq%2brOPhXzRb4XSHbA%3d%3d (sorry for the wrap) Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Free parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. What is Xen Virtualization? Xen is an open-source software project that provides high-performance, resource-managed virtualization on the x86 processor architecture. It allows multiple operating system instances to run concurrently on a single physical computer. Xen manages the computer's hardware resources so they are shared effectively among the operating system instances, called domains. So what does all this mean? It means that by using Xen virtualization, you can run and use several different operating systems at the same time on a single computer. from Linux Journal: http://72.14.205.104/linux?q=cache:MLYY8gOFS4MJ:www.linuxjournal.com/article/8812+xen+virtualization&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2 --- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 20:24:16 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:24:16 -0500 Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <200611231621.35583.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <200611241524.17614.ican@netrover.com> FYI. I did a quick experiment with Calc using the "Link External Data" feature to connect a Calc spreadsheet to a simple text file. As long at the text file was a simple HTML table as in:
4 79 77
6 7 8
I was able to get the corresponding cells in the Calc spreadsheet to reflect the data in the text file (after the default 60 refresh polling period). In other words on another console I could vi the text file, change a value, wait for 60 secs and the spreadsheet cell would be updated. Magic. Now all I have to do is write a background process to convert the data logger output into a html formated text file and my kludge should work ... I'm going to date myself here. Way back in the late 80's I worked in a lab which used Macs. The Mac software had a feature called publish and subscribe which allowed us to connect a live feed from a QNX system into graphical content in a Wordperfect report. ie. data in the feed changed and the graph in the report automatically updated itself. Now 17+ years later ... oh well that's progress sometimes. bob On Thursday 23 November 2006 04:21 pm, bob wrote: > I looking for a way to pass live data from a data logging application into > an Open Office Calc spreadsheet. > > Google didn't yield many clues other than there may be Python hooks > available in v2.x. > > Any ideas? > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 20:37:42 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:37:42 -0500 Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <200611241524.17614.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> <200611241524.17614.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: On 11/24/06, bob wrote: > FYI. I did a quick experiment with Calc using the "Link External Data" > feature to connect a Calc spreadsheet to a simple text file. > > As long at the text file was a simple HTML table as in: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
47977
678
> > > > I was able to get the corresponding cells in the Calc spreadsheet to reflect > the data in the text file (after the default 60 refresh polling period). > In other words on another console I could vi the text file, change a value, > wait for 60 secs and the spreadsheet cell would be updated. Magic. > > Now all I have to do is write a background process to convert the data logger > output into a html formated text file and my kludge should work ... > > I'm going to date myself here. Way back in the late 80's I worked in a lab > which used Macs. The Mac software had a feature called publish and > subscribe which allowed us to connect a live feed from a QNX system into > graphical content in a Wordperfect report. ie. data in the feed changed and > the graph in the report automatically updated itself. > > Now 17+ years later ... oh well that's progress sometimes. Yeah, that's the sort of thing that Xess / NeXS have been doing for (probably ~20 years :-)) now. Both are commercial spreadsheets long available on Linux (and other platforms where X works) which offered the ability to connect in real time data sources. Gnumeric and OpenOffice.org have both suffered from being inferior in various ways because their makers have been pretty hell-bound on more-or-less bug-for-bug compatibility with Excel, as opposed to trying to innovate by doing things that Excel doesn't. Or of "innovating" by copying features from other products like Xess/NeXS... (What is peculiar is that if they recreated features like those in Xess/NeXS, they'd be widely regarded as "ground breaking" even though those features might be 20 years old in other products...) The other interesting thing in Xess/NeXS was having an API to allow you to control the spreadsheet pretty deeply via scripts. Amiga users would be familiar with that idea, offered widely on that platform via AREXX... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/spreadsheets.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 24 20:47:43 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:47:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <200611241524.17614.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> <200611241524.17614.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <50212.207.188.66.125.1164401263.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Very, very neat. I can see this being useful in logging data from our scope into a spreadsheet where you could do various waveform math operations. Peter > FYI. I did a quick experiment with Calc using the "Link External Data" > feature to connect a Calc spreadsheet to a simple text file. > > As long at the text file was a simple HTML table as in: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
47977
678
> > > > I was able to get the corresponding cells in the Calc spreadsheet to > reflect > the data in the text file (after the default 60 refresh polling period). > In other words on another console I could vi the text file, change a > value, > wait for 60 secs and the spreadsheet cell would be updated. Magic. > > Now all I have to do is write a background process to convert the data > logger > output into a html formated text file and my kludge should work ... > > I'm going to date myself here. Way back in the late 80's I worked in a > lab > which used Macs. The Mac software had a feature called publish and > subscribe which allowed us to connect a live feed from a QNX system into > graphical content in a Wordperfect report. ie. data in the feed changed > and > the graph in the report automatically updated itself. > > Now 17+ years later ... oh well that's progress sometimes. > > bob > > > > On Thursday 23 November 2006 04:21 pm, bob wrote: >> I looking for a way to pass live data from a data logging application >> into >> an Open Office Calc spreadsheet. >> >> Google didn't yield many clues other than there may be Python hooks >> available in v2.x. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> bob >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 01:23:46 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 20:23:46 -0500 Subject: Any "out-of-the-box" PVRs or "digital VCRs"? In-Reply-To: <20061120172920.GM8237-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061118193801.GA9577@waltdnes.org> <1164006571.13647.32.camel@stan64.site> <20061120172920.GM8237@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200611242023.46762.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 20 November 2006 12:29, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I will just wait for 1080p TVs to become available and resonably priced. > Until they I will stick with NTSC. > Last Nov I purchased a Panasonic PT-AE900U projector which is probably the best there is for the home market. It handles practically every format that one might find, right up to 1080i. The cost was pretty low for a 92" Horiz. image. Even at that size, when the camera is in good focus, one can see the blades of grass on the football field. I wish it made sense to get a blueray DVD player, most DVD's appear a bit soft compared to a live picture. But the're still much better than viewing it on any CRT or LCD. A projector isn't for everyone, but size does matter, for many programs. Even at a 70" dia. image, it equals any LCD set I've seen, at a fraction of the cost. This isn't intended as a commercial, but HDTV is well worth the extra cost and the closer you can match a theatre environment, the more impressive it is. I've got Myth installed on a box, and I'm reaching the point where the experts here will start seeing some questions. Right now it is just for reg. TV and will be for some time. Last I heard people were still trying to find a way of using the output of the Rogers HD box. The price of an HDTV card is below $150 if one wants to use an off-air signal. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2006-Easter Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 03:47:49 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 22:47:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Solaris 10 stuff... Message-ID: <20061125034749.95458.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Of possible interest, if you want to see how the other side lives, you may want to check out the Sun who are offering (as a freebie) copies of Solaris 10 and the Sun Studio Software Media Kit for SPARC plus X86 platforms on DVD. The details/hoops to jump through can be seen here: www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp Yes, I have ordered a copy... Next question being can I get the hardware together to run it at home (I assume it will not run on my Sun Sparc IPX box :-( ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 12:09:35 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:09:35 -0500 Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <50212.207.188.66.125.1164401263.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> <200611241524.17614.ican@netrover.com> <50212.207.188.66.125.1164401263.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200611250709.37073.ican@netrover.com> The Open Office package also supports a socket based interface called UNO. There is a Tcl implementation of this interface called tcluno. The API appears to have a very steep learning curve and I couldn't figure out how to archive the data when the Calc spreadsheet wasn't active. ie. it seemed to me that the UNO interface only worked while Open Office was up and running. To be fair the UNO interface seems to allow a very comprehensive automation of the entire Open Office API. bob On Friday 24 November 2006 03:47 pm, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Very, very neat. I can see this being useful in logging data from our > scope into a spreadsheet where you could do various waveform math > operations. > > Peter > > > FYI. I did a quick experiment with Calc using the "Link External Data" > > feature to connect a Calc spreadsheet to a simple text file. > > > > As long at the text file was a simple HTML table as in: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
47977
678
> > > > > > > > I was able to get the corresponding cells in the Calc spreadsheet to > > reflect > > the data in the text file (after the default 60 refresh polling period). > > In other words on another console I could vi the text file, change a > > value, > > wait for 60 secs and the spreadsheet cell would be updated. Magic. > > > > Now all I have to do is write a background process to convert the data > > logger > > output into a html formated text file and my kludge should work ... > > > > I'm going to date myself here. Way back in the late 80's I worked in a > > lab > > which used Macs. The Mac software had a feature called publish and > > subscribe which allowed us to connect a live feed from a QNX system into > > graphical content in a Wordperfect report. ie. data in the feed changed > > and > > the graph in the report automatically updated itself. > > > > Now 17+ years later ... oh well that's progress sometimes. > > > > bob > > > > On Thursday 23 November 2006 04:21 pm, bob wrote: > >> I looking for a way to pass live data from a data logging application > >> into > >> an Open Office Calc spreadsheet. > >> > >> Google didn't yield many clues other than there may be Python hooks > >> available in v2.x. > >> > >> Any ideas? > >> > >> bob > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 14:15:51 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:15:51 -0500 Subject: The time has come In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061125091551.1c7782ef@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Peter P. got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > As far as I am concerned, there is now one IT company too many. I am sorry. ...looks like the barricades are already going up ;-) "Tensions are already high over Novell's patent agreement with Microsoft, but Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth's invitation to openSUSE developers "concerned about the long term consequences" has kicked the tension up a notch." http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/25/028237 -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bubblegum: Good lord, that sucker's shakin' around like some fine imported booty. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 15:17:35 2006 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:17:35 -0500 Subject: how to do live data feeds to Open Office Calc spreadsheets In-Reply-To: <200611250709.37073.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611231621.35583.ican@netrover.com> <200611241524.17614.ican@netrover.com> <50212.207.188.66.125.1164401263.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <200611250709.37073.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <1164467855.27517.277380869@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:09:35 -0500, "bob" said: > The Open Office package also supports a socket based interface called > UNO. > There is a Tcl implementation of this interface called tcluno. Python is the best supported high level language for OpenOffice scripting. I've got a few links to Python+OO resources in my Del.ic.ios bookmarks http://del.icio.us/andmalc/openoffice > The API appears to have a very steep learning curve and I couldn't figure > out > how to archive the data when the Calc spreadsheet wasn't active. ie. it > seemed to me that the UNO interface only worked while Open Office was up > and > running. Yes, I think that's right. > To be fair the UNO interface seems to allow a very comprehensive > automation of > the entire Open Office API. > Here's a tutorial on scripting Calc from Python. There's no example for this but you must be able to alter data in an existing spreadsheet. http://www.stuvel.eu/ooo-python ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 19:46:42 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:46:42 -0500 Subject: Setting up encrypted partition (AES-loopback) In-Reply-To: <45635E20.1030605-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <45635E20.1030605@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: I don't know enough about encrypted filesystems to be able to give a known good answer, but I would guess that password entry would happen after grub, but before the root filesystem gets mounted, since the root fs would be encrypted. Your understanding may be helped by finding out more about initrd, which is what would allow this to happen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initrd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 22:00:01 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:00:01 -0500 Subject: linux-based stereo? Message-ID: <1164492002.5578.12.camel@localhost> Hi, last year I built the family a mythtv box for xmas and it was the only tefhnical project I've ever done that my family actually uses. (so hooray for that!). Now my girlfriend really wants to move to an electronic stereo system, probably with an ipod as a central component. but I'd really like to create a stereo component built around linux either intead of the ipod, or as a tool which can also mount and sync with the ipod. so I have two main ideas: (1): an old laptop that can sit on top of the stereo and into into which an ipod might be plugged. I guess I'd run amarok on it, unless someone has another suggestion. (2): a cheap compact "deskbook" sized computer (I saw some at Above All) with an lcd screen and a remote I like the idea of a remote! I odn't know what software you'd run on something like that. one reason I really want a more complex system instead of just an ipod is that I find ipods a little clujsy to scroll through and queue music in. Anyway I wondered if anyone else had experimented with such systems and if so, if you have any suggestions. Thanks much! matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 25 23:01:17 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: why can't I unload usbcore? In-Reply-To: <20061123203013.GB16439-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1164126562.5517.30.camel@localhost> <20061123203013.GB16439@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1164495677.5578.16.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-23-11 at 15:30 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 11:29:22AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent but sometimes persistent problem > > with sudpend-to-disk on my laptop, one which appears to have something > > to do with usb. so I'm trying to unload all the usb modules, but don't > > seem to be able to do that with usbcore. my procedureh ad been: > > > > modprobe -r ehci-hcd uhci-hcd hci_usb > > umount -l /proc/bus/usb (won't unmount unless I add the '-l' swich) > > modprobe -r usbcore > > > > with the last command I get a " FATAL: Module usbcore is in use." > > > > but I can't tell what's 'using' it. > > lsof | grep -i usb gives no results, for instance. > > > > any hints on how to figure this out? > > lsmod|grep usbcore > > modules aren't files (in terms of how they are used). lsof won't > show them. > > Once every usb module is unloaded, you should be able to remove usbcore. > thanks lennart. this is in fact what I'd been trying. but even with lsmod showing: usbcore 136068 1 something is blocking the unloading. so I imagine there's some process or device (not just a module) involved. I imagine there's some way to diagnose this but I don't knwo it... matt > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 07:03:29 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:03:29 -0500 Subject: why can't I unload usbcore? In-Reply-To: <1164495677.5578.16.camel@localhost> References: <1164126562.5517.30.camel@localhost> <20061123203013.GB16439@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1164495677.5578.16.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Try blacklisting usbcore, so that it doesn't get loaded automatically, then rebooting. In Gentoo this is in /etc/hotplug/blacklist, and on Ubuntu, in /etc/modprobe.d/. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 07:06:26 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:06:26 -0500 Subject: linux-based stereo? In-Reply-To: <1164492002.5578.12.camel@localhost> References: <1164492002.5578.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Setting up a remote should be very flexible, you would use lirc for that. I got a remote with the tuner card I bought, and I had basic functionality with it very quickly, but I haven't looked at customising the function of each button yet. Regardless, a remote is a nice idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 15:05:59 2006 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:05:59 -0500 Subject: Kaffeine Message-ID: <4569AD57.5070506@iprimus.ca> Question about the cd/dvd movie player Kaffeine. Is anyone aware of a plugin for this package which allows foreign movies without subtitles to be heard in English? Or any othe player which can do this ? -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel : 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Mandriva Linux LE 2006 kernel-2.6.12_27mdk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 16:52:28 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:52:28 -0500 Subject: Kaffeine In-Reply-To: <4569AD57.5070506-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4569AD57.5070506@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990611260852h66e550et96efe0193fda323f@mail.gmail.com> On 11/26/06, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Question about the cd/dvd movie player Kaffeine. Is anyone aware of a > plugin for this package which allows foreign movies without subtitles to > be heard in English? Or any othe player which can do this ? Are you looking for something that can reach out into the universe for an alternate audio track and play it instead of the audio tracks on the DVD? I haven't heard that this is possible, but even if it is.. what movie-experience could you possibly get from a fan-voiceover version of a movie.. assuming you could even find one? Fan-subtitling sure.. but voiceovers? Probably not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 19:15:26 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:15:26 -0500 Subject: 3 to 1? In-Reply-To: <4414D78E.8000603-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4414BC4D.2@vianet.ca> <20060313015554.GE4585@svc.hazed.ca> <20060313021112.GA16349@svc.hazed.ca> <4414D78E.8000603@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <4569E7CE.5070701@vianet.ca> Soory, for the top post but this is based on an old thread with a new query. I'd like ot know if there is a Mozilla Mail equivalent to Thunderbird's Tools > Account Settings > Manage Identities. I created a New Account but that is not as good as the Thunderbird solution as I have to keep coming up with new mnames for the Incoming mail server (after pop3.isp.com and mail.isp.com there are no other names other than the ip address then that's it). Also, the Mozilla Mail New Account creates another file tree which is cumbersome. I like the Thunderbird manage Identities because all my mail from three sources comes into the salme file tree and then I just choose From address from the drop down menu. Can I even *do* this in Mozilla Mail? Chris Chris Aitken wrote: > Vince Hillier wrote: > >> On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 08:55:54PM -0500, Vince Hillier wrote: >> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 07:26:53PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I get three of each email (from any source). This is because I have >>>> my ISP account (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) and two registered domains, >>>> chrisaitken.net and shinypinemusic.com. I want to be able to /send/ >>>> from caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org and >>>> chris at shinypinemusic. I want to /receive/ any mail sent to >>>> [anything]@chrisaitken.net and [anything]@shinypinemusic.com. My >>>> two registered domains have email forwarding set with EasyDNS. >>>> >>>> To have different 'From' fileds (in Thunderbird) I need three >>>> "different" mail servers. [Thunderbird can only create accounts >>>> with different mail server entries.] Of course, I can only really >>>> get mail >>> >>> Wow, that's quite the setup! >>> >>> Say hello to Identities, they''ll resolve your conundrum. >>> >>> Click Tools -> Account settings, select your account and you will see a >>> button called "Manage Identities". This allows you to have 1 account >>> with multiple personalities. >>> >>> >> >> >> The linux version *has* to be different :) >> >> Click Edit -> Account Settings, then you'll see the Manage Identities >> button in the lower right section of the pane where you specifiy your >> Name, Email, Org, etc... >> >> > Right on, right on, right on! > > Thank y'all. > > Can you guess it worked? > > ;) > > Chris > >> >> >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 20:05:13 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:05:13 -0500 Subject: 3 to 1? Message-ID: <4569F379.8030907@rogers.com> Its been a while since I used it, but as I remember the Mozilla Suite comes with a Profile Manager that does that task amongst other things. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 20:34:32 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:34:32 -0500 Subject: 3 to 1? In-Reply-To: <4569E7CE.5070701-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4414BC4D.2@vianet.ca> <20060313015554.GE4585@svc.hazed.ca> <20060313021112.GA16349@svc.hazed.ca> <4414D78E.8000603@vianet.ca> <4569E7CE.5070701@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <4569FA58.2030707@rogers.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > Soory, for the top post but this is based on an old thread with a new > query. I'd like ot know if there is a Mozilla Mail equivalent to > Thunderbird's Tools > Account Settings > Manage Identities. I created > a New Account but that is not as good as the Thunderbird solution as I > have to keep coming up with new mnames for the Incoming mail server > (after pop3.isp.com and mail.isp.com there are no other names other > than the ip address then that's it). Also, the Mozilla Mail New > Account creates another file tree which is cumbersome. I like the > Thunderbird manage Identities because all my mail from three sources > comes into the salme file tree and then I just choose From address > from the drop down menu. Can I even *do* this in Mozilla Mail? I'm not quite sure if it does what you want, but there are profiles in Seamonkey. Another thing you can do is create multiple accounts, which you can call whatever you want and have them all deliver the incoming mail to the same Inbox. You can also pick the "From", using a drop down menu. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 23:22:35 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:22:35 -0500 Subject: Kaffeine In-Reply-To: <4569AD57.5070506-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4569AD57.5070506@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <456A21BB.90107@telly.org> Clive DaSilva wrote: > Question about the cd/dvd movie player Kaffeine. Is anyone aware of a > plugin for this package which allows foreign movies without subtitles > to be heard in English? Or any othe player which can do this ? > Kaffeine is certainly able, without an extra plugin, to switch between different audio tracks for a video if they exist. For instance, if you play a DVD that offers multi-lingual audio choices (or one that's Dolby 5.1 and another that's simple stereo), you can switch between them using Player->Audio->AudioChannel. Of course your video needs to have an English-language channel enabled for this to work. One of the nice things about the open source implementation of DVD/DeCSS playback is that it ignores the region code matching that usually prevents North American players from playing disks aquired abroad (even if legitimately purchased). I have examples of Brazilian, Hong Kong and French DVDs that work fine. On these disks English is the alternate -- not the primary -- audio track, but they play fine for me. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 02:00:27 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:00:27 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? Message-ID: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi , Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point where my only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power button. I'm using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what went wrong. Also is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try killing X and that doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it is hard to find a pattern in what causes the freeze. Any suggestions what I should do when this happens. Hate to have to do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . Thanks Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 02:11:14 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:11:14 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <1164592827.2997.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: jim ruxton wrote: > Hi , > Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point where my > only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power button. I'm > using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what went wrong. Also > is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try killing X and that > doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it is hard to find a pattern > in what causes the freeze. Any suggestions what I should do when this > happens. Hate to have to do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . Someone (Seneca) taught me how to use alt+SysRQ. The magic order of keys I find works best is RESUB, easuy to rememer and pretty much covers rebooting as gracefully as possible. More here: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/457 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 26 13:14:13 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:14:13 Subject: OT: Solaris 10 stuff... In-Reply-To: <20061125034749.95458.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061125034749.95458.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20061126131413.5aafbdc4@mail.look.ca> At 10:47 PM 2006/11/24 -0500, you wrote: >Of possible interest, if you want to see how the other >side lives, you may want to check out the Sun who are >offering (as a freebie) copies of Solaris 10 and the >Sun Studio Software Media Kit for SPARC plus X86 >platforms on DVD. The details/hoops to jump through >can be seen here: > > www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp > >Yes, I have ordered a copy... Next question being can >I get the hardware together to run it at home (I >assume it will not run on my Sun Sparc IPX box :-( ). > > >Colin McGregor I received the DVD at a different computer club's meeting a little over a month ago. At the New TLUG meeting in the Seneca at York building, I asked you how it compared to Linux. I still have not installed it. I am too timid. When I was in high school, I was one of the first in my town of 2000 to buy a tape recorder. Now, I have become anything but a pioneer. Please tell me your experiences of Sun Solaris 10, and your impressions on how it compares to UNIX, Linux, or whatever you have exposure to. Jim McIntosh --------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 05:50:04 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:50:04 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20061127005004.3033ed23@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:11:14 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > RESUB I always heard it 'Raising Skinny Elephants etc.' Would you not want to try to sync the filesystems before sending a term signal to all running processes? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 06:13:47 2006 From: shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 01:13:47 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? Message-ID: <26137.1164608027@heinous.org> On Mon Nov 27 0:50 , JoeHill sent: >On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:11:14 -0500 >Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> RESUB > >I always heard it 'Raising Skinny Elephants etc.' > >Would you not want to try to sync the filesystems before sending a term signal >to all running processes? > >-- >JoeHill / RLU #282046 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >"Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists What's in the end of /var/log/messages, var/log/secure, etc ? Does it happen after the same amount of uptime? I often suggest running top in batch mode to a file, from a daily cron so that you have the last 24 hours of system perf data before any crash. -Joseph- ---- This message was sent via a demo version of - http://atmail.com/-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 15:25:08 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:25:08 -0500 Subject: webalizer and localhost and network access In-Reply-To: <200611221929.37736.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200611221929.37736.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/22/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I bet it might be a matter of web server configuration. Unless you have a sort > of /usage/index.html there. I would agree that it's probably an web server configuration issue, but a permissions kind, because it works if he's local. If you haven't done this already, try looking in /usr/share/doc/, because I wouldn't be able to tell you where the proper config file is without knowing what webserver and distribution you use. If it's apache, check under /etc/apache*, it would be in there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 16:06:46 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:06:46 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <1164592827.2997.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1f13df280611270806o7495e0ddif5536a702a53debc@mail.gmail.com> On 11/26/06, jim ruxton wrote: > Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point where my > only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power button. I'm > using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what went wrong. Also > is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try killing X and that > doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it is hard to find a pattern > in what causes the freeze. Any suggestions what I should do when this > happens. Hate to have to do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . The commonest (but not the only) cause of mystery crashes I've found has been bad memory. Running memtest86 (or memtest86+) will either eliminate one possible cause or tell you what the problem is. It's available on a lot of CDs these days ... I think Ubuntu Live, Knoppix, and the Ultimate Boot CD at a minimum. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 16:36:07 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:36:07 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280611270806o7495e0ddif5536a702a53debc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1f13df280611270806o7495e0ddif5536a702a53debc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611271136.08392.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 27 November 2006 11:06, Giles Orr wrote: > On 11/26/06, jim ruxton wrote: > > Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point > > where my only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power > > button. I'm using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what > > went wrong. Also is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try > > killing X and that doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it > > is hard to find a pattern in what causes the freeze. Any > > suggestions what I should do when this happens. Hate to have to > > do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . > > The commonest (but not the only) cause of mystery crashes I've > found has been bad memory. The most common causes of mystery crashes I have found to be in this order: 1. Flash on any browser - it's only a matter of time before I hit a Flash infested site that will cause the disk access light to stay on constantly and no keyboard, mouse, or ssh responsiveness. 2. Firefox - same as Flash story above. 3. X, 4. Running Fedora Core :) Seriously, I had more crashes on the laptop on which I'm typing this in the six weeks I ran FC5 than I did in the few years prior. I haven't had a single crash since I dumped FC5 and installed Suse 10.1 on this machine so I know it wasn't a hardware problem. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 19:26:47 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:26:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Solaris 10 stuff... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20061126131413.5aafbdc4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20061126131413.5aafbdc4@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20061127192648.24270.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James McIntosh wrote: > At 10:47 PM 2006/11/24 -0500, you wrote: > >Of possible interest, if you want to see how the > other > >side lives, you may want to check out the Sun who > are > >offering (as a freebie) copies of Solaris 10 and > the > >Sun Studio Software Media Kit for SPARC plus X86 > >platforms on DVD. The details/hoops to jump through > >can be seen here: > > > > www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp > > > >Yes, I have ordered a copy... Next question being > can > >I get the hardware together to run it at home (I > >assume it will not run on my Sun Sparc IPX box :-( > ). > > > > > >Colin McGregor > > > I received the DVD at a different computer club's > meeting a little over a > month ago. > > At the New TLUG meeting in the Seneca at York > building, I asked you how it > compared to Linux. > > I still have not installed it. > > I am too timid. > > When I was in high school, I was one of the first in > my town of 2000 to buy > a tape recorder. > > Now, I have become anything but a pioneer. > > Please tell me your experiences of Sun Solaris 10, > and your impressions on > how it compares to UNIX, Linux, or whatever you have > exposure to. I have not tried Solaris 10. I have played a bit with Solaris 7 on my Sun SPARC IPX box (the latest version of Solaris that will I gather run on hardware that old). All sorts of small, but noticiable differences between Solaris 7 and Linux, everything usable, but odd... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 21:16:35 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:16:35 -0500 Subject: mozilla drop-down From like Thunderbird? Message-ID: <456B55B3.7080507@vianet.ca> I'm starting a new thread becuase I've lost my mail from the old one. I want to be able to choose from different addresses in the 'From' drop-down box in Mozilla Mail. I do this in Thunderbird but I can't do it in Mozilla Mail. I see there is no 'Manange Identities' button in the account settings of Mozilla Mail, like there is in Thunderbird. I would assume that this function does not exist in Moziolla Mail and let it go at that were it not for the following: there is a drop-down box for the 'From' field in Mozilla Mail when composing an email. However, it has alluded me how to get any more that one address into that 'From' box. Why would there be a drop-down box if it not to get more that one address into it? Did they put that into Mozilla Mail knowing they would eventually get that function into the mail app? The plot thickens: when I type mozilla --identities the Manage Profile utility opens (not the Manage Identities utility). So, did Manage Profiles morph into Manage Identities? Or can I do this in both apps? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 21:50:02 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:50:02 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? Message-ID: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not within the United States? It's not that I am doing anything with my web sites that is illegal, immoral or in violation of the PATRIOT Act, the DMCA or would attract the attention of Homeland Security, but still, I don't want US law enforcement to have easy access to my web sites either. Requirements: Virtual is fine Preferably allow more than one domain Allow SSH access Support WordPress Support Python (not a dealbreaker) I really like the price and package at bluehost.com, except that they are located in Utah. Canadian companies are preferred, but mostly I'm interested in where my sites *aren't* hosted (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.). Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 27 23:51:27 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:51:27 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy Message-ID: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> I'm to write report cards in Open Office. I use a floppy so I can go from school PC to my studio PC to my daughter's PC to my wife's PC. And yes, I do backups here and there but I will lose some informaitn if I don't solve this permissions thing. I thought that chmod 777 -R /mnt/floppy/* usually fixes any problems that arise but not this time. Now I can't even get into the files (other than as read-only) on my own PC. Any ideas? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:04:43 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:04:43 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B79FF.2010802-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm to write report cards in Open Office. I use a floppy so I can go > from school PC to my studio PC to my daughter's PC to my wife's PC. > And yes, I do backups here and there but I will lose some informaitn > if I don't solve this permissions thing. I thought that chmod 777 -R > /mnt/floppy/* usually fixes any problems that arise but not this time. > Now I can't even get into the files (other than as read-only) on my > own PC. > > Any ideas? I'm constantly being reminded everything on /mnt/floppy is a read-only file system (suddenly of course). /etc/fstab doesn't agree: /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0 Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:06:47 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:06:47 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <20061127215002.GA13207-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: http://www.canadianwebhosting.com/vps.asp looks like it has what you need. Problem is you never know where their datacenter(s) is/are and they cost way too much for what you get. Seems a little pricey compared to someone like Quantact.com in the US that offers a Xen based virtual server for 14.99/month, or linode.com or unixshell.com, all of which are mostly in the same price range and offer you full root in a XEN or UML virtual server. I agonized over the aformentioned 3 virutal providers last week and settled on Quantact. For shared hosting I use dothost.ca who are based in Markham, and I hear excellent things about blacksun.ca (python support on some plans). Dothost doesn't have shell access which really gets to being a problem. Go for a virtual server, for the price and the control you get, they can't be beat. It's too bad they're all in the US which doesn't fit your criteria, but everything else you're asking for you can setup, with a selection of various distros as well. You can also block those pesky law enforcement types with iptables (on your virtual machine of course) and a blocklist from bluetack.co.uk ( http://tinyurl.com/yc49ug for a full list of bluetack's blocklists ). Unless we can get some TLUG'ers to get together and start up a properly competitive XEN or UML hosting company, I think south of the border is your only intelligent choice (in terms of cost), but I'm with on wholeheartedly on having my data across the border as the DMCA and Patriot act bother me greatly. Jamon William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not > within the United States? It's not that I am doing anything with my web > sites that is illegal, immoral or in violation of the PATRIOT Act, the > DMCA or would attract the attention of Homeland Security, but still, I > don't want US law enforcement to have easy access to my web sites > either. > > Requirements: > > Virtual is fine > Preferably allow more than one domain > Allow SSH access > Support WordPress > Support Python (not a dealbreaker) > > I really like the price and package at bluehost.com, except that they > are located in Utah. > > Canadian companies are preferred, but mostly I'm interested in where my > sites *aren't* hosted (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.). > Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:04:19 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:04:19 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <45651771.80906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061128000419.GA5450@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 10:37:21PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote > I think this is "google video" format, and it's giving me headaches. > > I have the win32 and a bunch of other codecs loaded. > > Kaffeine and Xine will play the files' video but not audio. > Mplayer will play video and audio it but won't recognize FLVs as video > files. > ffmpeg says it recognizes the format but gives me errors when I try to > convert flv files to mpg. > > Does anyone here have suggestions on > 1) how to get xine to play the video > 2) how to get ffmpeg (or any other tool) to convert them to another format > > Thanks! This answer is from out in left field... close your browser (presumably Firefox). You probably played the video under Flash. Flash does *NOT* close the video device when the video finishes. You have to close the browser, which closes Flash, which closes the audio device. Then it should play video and audio. What do you mean by "Mplayer will play video and audio it but won't recognize FLVs as video files"? If it plays the file, isn't that sufficient? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:17:48 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:17:48 -0500 Subject: FS: 1gb PC2700 RAM Message-ID: Thought I'd post this here first. I have 1 512MB stick and 2 256MB sticks of PC2700 RAM that I want to sell/trade. Contact me off-list if you are interested. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:28:28 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:28:28 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <20061127215002.GA13207-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman writes: > Canadian companies are preferred, but mostly I'm interested in where my > sites *aren't* hosted (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.). > Thanks. I was looking for something connected to a big pipe and outside of USA and Canada. A friend that runs a US-based hosting company pointed me to: http://www.eurovps.com/ Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:30:08 2006 From: shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:30:08 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? Message-ID: <7742.1164673808@heinous.org> What is the most you would be willing to pay for a virtual machine? There is a datacenter downtown where we have a couple of machines, and could add more if needed. What are your bandwidth requirements? Feel free to reply directly to me. Cheers, -Joseph- On Mon Nov 27 19:06 , Jamon Camisso sent: >http://www.canadianwebhosting.com/vps.asp looks like it has what you >need. Problem is you never know where their datacenter(s) is/are and >they cost way too much for what you get. > >Seems a little pricey compared to someone like Quantact.com in the US >that offers a Xen based virtual server for 14.99/month, or linode.com or >unixshell.com, all of which are mostly in the same price range and offer >you full root in a XEN or UML virtual server. > >I agonized over the aformentioned 3 virutal providers last week and >settled on Quantact. > >For shared hosting I use dothost.ca who are based in Markham, and I hear >excellent things about blacksun.ca (python support on some plans). >Dothost doesn't have shell access which really gets to being a problem. > >Go for a virtual server, for the price and the control you get, they >can't be beat. It's too bad they're all in the US which doesn't fit your >criteria, but everything else you're asking for you can setup, with a >selection of various distros as well. > >You can also block those pesky law enforcement types with iptables (on >your virtual machine of course) and a blocklist from bluetack.co.uk >( http://tinyurl.com/yc49ug for a full list of bluetack's blocklists ). > >Unless we can get some TLUG'ers to get together and start up a properly >competitive XEN or UML hosting company, I think south of the border is >your only intelligent choice (in terms of cost), but I'm with on >wholeheartedly on having my data across the border as the DMCA and >Patriot act bother me greatly. > >Jamon > >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not >> within the United States? It's not that I am doing anything with my web >> sites that is illegal, immoral or in violation of the PATRIOT Act, the >> DMCA or would attract the attention of Homeland Security, but still, I >> don't want US law enforcement to have easy access to my web sites >> either. >> >> Requirements: >> >> Virtual is fine >> Preferably allow more than one domain >> Allow SSH access >> Support WordPress >> Support Python (not a dealbreaker) >> >> I really like the price and package at bluehost.com, except that they >> are located in Utah. >> >> Canadian companies are preferred, but mostly I'm interested in where my >> sites *aren't* hosted (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.). >> Thanks. > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists ---- This message was sent via a demo version of - http://atmail.com/-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 00:57:17 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:57:17 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <20061127215002.GA13207-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 11/27/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not > within the United States? It's not that I am doing anything with my web > sites that is illegal, immoral or in violation of the PATRIOT Act, the > DMCA or would attract the attention of Homeland Security, but still, I > don't want US law enforcement to have easy access to my web sites > either. > > Requirements: > > Virtual is fine > Preferably allow more than one domain > Allow SSH access > Support WordPress > Support Python (not a dealbreaker) Look at moonbase.info... Operators are based in Toronto/Waterloo... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 01:10:00 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:10:00 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061128011000.GB5450@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 03:57:38PM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote > I use the 'youtube-dl' script to download the videos: > > http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/11/197251&tid=47 I have my own version that is foolproof, no matter what the website does to block it. You see, Firefox creates a temporary file in its Cache directory, and hands that off to Flash to play. The file is left in the Cache folder after playing. I play a bunch of Youtube or video.google.com files as per normal. Then, from a console commandline, I cd to the cache directory and execute the following script which I call "getflv". Warning... contains backtick expandos; You don't know me, so verify for your self that it's harmless. The script scans through all the files in the currecnt directory (I did say to cd to the Cache dir), and any files that are determined to be flv get renamed to w.000.flv, w.001.flv, w.002.flv, etc. ======================================================================= #!/bin/bash decrement() { echo $(( $1 - 1 )) } increment() { echo $(( $1 + 1 )) } getnextversion() { NUMBER= DIGITPOINTER=0 while [ ${DIGITPOINTER} -lt ${1} ] do NUMBER=${NUMBER}0 DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=0 DIGITPOINTER=`increment ${DIGITPOINTER}` done while [ -e ${2}${NUMBER}${3} ] do DIGITPOINTER=`decrement ${1}` DIGITPNTLEFT=`decrement ${DIGITPOINTER}` DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=`increment ${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]}` NUMBER= while [ ${DIGITPOINTER} -ge 0 ] do if [ ${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]} -eq 10 ] then DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=0 if [ ${DIGITPNTLEFT} -gt 0 ] then DIGIT[${DIGITPNTLEFT}]=`increment ${DIGIT[${DIGITPNTLEFT}]}` fi fi NUMBER=${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]}${NUMBER} DIGITPOINTER=${DIGITPNTLEFT} DIGITPNTLEFT=`decrement ${DIGITPNTLEFT}` done done echo ${2}${NUMBER}${3} } for filename in * do if echo "`file ${filename}`" | grep "Macromedia Flash Video" ; then newfilename=`getnextversion 3 w. .flv` mv ${filename} ${newfilename} echo ${newfilename} fi done ======================================================================= You can inspect and move all the w.???.flv files to wherever. > ...and ffmpeg converts the *.flv files to *.avi files: > > ffmpeg -i .flv .avi mplayer handles it just find, as long as you remember to close the browser (you can re-open it if you want). Flash doesn't close the audio device after finishing... idiots. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 02:07:28 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:07:28 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B7D1B.2060903-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I'm to write report cards in Open Office. I use a floppy so I can go >> from school PC to my studio PC to my daughter's PC to my wife's PC. >> And yes, I do backups here and there but I will lose some informaitn >> if I don't solve this permissions thing. I thought that chmod 777 -R >> /mnt/floppy/* usually fixes any problems that arise but not this >> time. Now I can't even get into the files (other than as read-only) >> on my own PC. >> >> Any ideas? > > > I'm constantly being reminded everything on /mnt/floppy is a read-only > file system (suddenly of course). /etc/fstab doesn't agree: > > /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto > noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0 > > Chris I can't even change ownership as the super user: [root at p733 chris]# chown chris /mnt/floppy/* chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/news.0607.1.doc': Read-only file system chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.aaliyah.1.doc': Read-only file system chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.amber.1.doc': Read-only file system -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 05:09:26 2006 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:09:26 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B99E0.10707-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> Message-ID: Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: >> I'm constantly being reminded everything on /mnt/floppy is a read-only >> file system (suddenly of course). /etc/fstab doesn't agree: >> >> /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto >> noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0 > > I can't even change ownership as the super user: > > [root at p733 chris]# chown chris /mnt/floppy/* > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/news.0607.1.doc': Read-only > file system > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.aaliyah.1.doc': > Read-only file system > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.amber.1.doc': > Read-only file system The write-protect tab wouldn't be set on the disk, would it? ... just in case ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 04:43:03 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:43:03 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B99E0.10707-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <200611272343.03922.marc@lijour.net> On Monday 27 November 2006 21:07, Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I'm to write report cards in Open Office. I use a floppy so I can go > >> from school PC to my studio PC to my daughter's PC to my wife's PC. > >> And yes, I do backups here and there but I will lose some informaitn > >> if I don't solve this permissions thing. I thought that chmod 777 -R > >> /mnt/floppy/* usually fixes any problems that arise but not this > >> time. Now I can't even get into the files (other than as read-only) > >> on my own PC. > >> > >> Any ideas? > > > > I'm constantly being reminded everything on /mnt/floppy is a read-only > > file system (suddenly of course). /etc/fstab doesn't agree: > > > > /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto > > noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0 > > > > Chris > > I can't even change ownership as the super user: > > [root at p733 chris]# chown chris /mnt/floppy/* > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/news.0607.1.doc': Read-only > file system > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.aaliyah.1.doc': > Read-only file system > chown: changing ownership of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.amber.1.doc': > Read-only file system > > Can't you remount it with rw option? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 11:28:41 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:28:41 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B99E0.10707-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 09:07:28PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote > I can't even change ownership as the super user: I assume that if it's a floppy, it's either MSDOS or VFAT. Neither of these filesystems have anything vaguely resembling the concept of owner. You're trying to set a non-existant attribute, and you're getting nowhere. Format the floppy as ext2fs, and it would be adifferent story. The only way to control what goes on the floppy in this situation is to fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 13:50:30 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:50:30 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <20061128112841.GA7939-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <456C3EA6.1070505@utoronto.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 09:07:28PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote > >> I can't even change ownership as the super user: > > I assume that if it's a floppy, it's either MSDOS or VFAT. Neither of > these filesystems have anything vaguely resembling the concept of owner. > You're trying to set a non-existant attribute, and you're getting > nowhere. Format the floppy as ext2fs, and it would be adifferent story. > > The only way to control what goes on the floppy in this situation is > to fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0. > But Linux does have a way of mounting a MSDOS or VFAT (FAT32) partition in such a way that it can "pretend" that each file or directory on such a partitiion has a specific set of attributes. Ivan Avery Frey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 14:33:50 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:33:50 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B7D1B.2060903-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20061128093350.368c9ef9.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:04:43 -0500 Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I'm to write report cards in Open Office. I use a floppy so I can go > > from school PC to my studio PC to my daughter's PC to my wife's PC. > > And yes, I do backups here and there but I will lose some informaitn > > if I don't solve this permissions thing. I thought that chmod 777 -R > > /mnt/floppy/* usually fixes any problems that arise but not this time. > > Now I can't even get into the files (other than as read-only) on my > > own PC. > > > > Any ideas? > > I'm constantly being reminded everything on /mnt/floppy is a read-only > file system (suddenly of course). /etc/fstab doesn't agree: > > /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto > noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0 > > Chris Chris, On Fedora Core 3, this all seems to work without me doing anything, other than trying to mount the floppy of course. Try... $ man 8 mount My old fstab line (which worked) was... /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto noauto,users 0 0 Note that "users" and "user" are options for fstab. The line above allows anyone to mount the device, and it allows anyone else to unmount it. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 14:40:05 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:40:05 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C3EA6.1070505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C3EA6.1070505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <456C4A45.8010903@vianet.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > But Linux does have a way of mounting a MSDOS or VFAT (FAT32) > partition in such a way that it can "pretend" that each file or > directory on such a partition has a specific set of attributes. Why would it be MSDOS or VFAT partition? I created all the files in linux. I added 'rw' to the floppy line in /etc/fstab and rebooted (I couldn't rember the command to get the system to re-read fstab). Still, the files are read-only. I tried my chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy/ command again - didn't help. I tried running that same command as the superuser - again I get the read-only filesystem errors: [root at p733 chris]# chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy/ chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/floppy/': Read-only file system chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.aaliyah.1.doc': Read-only file system chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.austin.1.doc': Read-only file system -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 14:47:27 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:47:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C4A45.8010903-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C3EA6.1070505@utoronto.ca> <456C4A45.8010903@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <50793.207.188.66.20.1164725247.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Why would it be MSDOS or VFAT partition? I created all the files in linux. > > I added 'rw' to the floppy line in /etc/fstab and rebooted (I couldn't > rember the command to get the system to re-read fstab). Still, the files > are read-only. I tried my chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy/ command again - > didn't help. I tried running that same command as the superuser - again > I get the read-only filesystem errors: > I use floppies all the time to transfer stuff between systems and have never had permission issues. I use mtools: mformat the floppy, then mcopy the files to the disk. No fooling with mount or fstab at all. Is there any option of recreating these files on disk using mcopy? -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 14:49:22 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:49:22 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <20061128112841.GA7939-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <456C4C72.1070900@vianet.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > The only way to control what goes on the floppy in this situation is >to fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0. > > > I did the following commands (trying to open a file from the floppy between each command): [chris at p733 chris]$ mount /mnt/floppy [chris at p733 chris]$ chmod 777 /dev/fd0 [chris at p733 chris]$ su Password: [root at p733 chris]# chmod 777 /dev/fd0 [root at p733 chris]# chmod -R 777 /dev/fd0 [root at p733 chris]# ...still the files only open read-only. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 15:04:43 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:04:43 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <456B7D97.3030008-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <456B7D97.3030008@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20061128150443.5B6BC853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> Not meaning to be too alarmist, but... > You can also block those pesky law enforcement types with iptables (on Don't bet on it. The Patriot Act and friends would allow the FBI to go to your hosting company and tell them to clone your machine (which they could probably do with Xen without even interrupting your machine), and you'd never even know until you tried to enter the US sometime later. And blocking their IPs would sure attract me if I were the FBI, as would the simple fact that you were a foriegn national. I wouldn't be too surprised if the FBI routinely asks hosting companies for their foreign customer lists - I would if I were them. An encrypted file system with a *long* diceware password would be about all I would trust. (Given the amount of known data in a filesystem and the amount of compute power the NSA could bring to bear, I'd want a thousand bits or more of entrophy.) Realize that your gmail, hotmail, and yahoo (regardless if any of those are even *physically* outside the US) are subject to examination by the FBI. It is arguable that even if some US company has a maintenance account on your machine that they can be compelled to surreptitiously extract information from you. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 14:51:23 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:51:23 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <20061128112841.GA7939-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <456C4CEB.3090303@vianet.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: >On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 09:07:28PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote > > > >>I can't even change ownership as the super user: >> >> > > I assume that if it's a floppy, it's either MSDOS or VFAT. Neither of >these filesystems have anything vaguely resembling the concept of owner. >You're trying to set a non-existant attribute, and you're getting >nowhere. > I see. But then I wonder why the files are only opening read-only... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 16:13:31 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:13:31 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <20061128093350.368c9ef9.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <20061128093350.368c9ef9.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <456C602B.2070103@vianet.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > > My old fstab line (which worked) was... > >/dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto noauto,users 0 0 > > OK, I added 'users' to my floppy line, saved fstab and rebooted. Still no luck. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 16:39:09 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:39:09 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C602B.2070103-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456C602B.2070103@vianet.ca> Message-ID: SSBoYXRlIHRvIGFzayB0aGUgb2J2aW91cywgYnV0IGhhdmUgeW91IGF0dGVtcHRlZCBpbnNlcnRp bmcgYSBuZXcgYmxhbmsgDQpmbG9wcHksIGFuZCBzZWVpbmcgaWYgdGhlIA0KcHJvYmxlbSBwZXJz aXN0cz8gDQoNClRoZSByZWFzb24gSSBhbSBhc2tpbmcsIGlzIHRoYXQgZmxvcHB5IGRyaXZlcyBh cmUgbWVjaGFuaWNhbCBkZXZpY2VzIHRoYXQgDQpjYW4gZWFzaWx5IGZhaWwgZHVlIHRvIA0KZHVz dCBhbmQgZGVicmlzLiBJIGhhdmUgc2VlbiBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdCB3aGVyZSB0aGUgbWljcm9zd2l0 Y2ggdGhhdCBjaGVja3MgDQppZiB0aGUgd3JpdGUgcHJvdGVjdCB0YWINCmhhZCBzdHVjayAvIGZh aWxlZCBhbmQgYWxsIGRpc2tzIHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIHJlYWQgb25seS4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpKYXNvbiBTaGVpbg0KTmV0d29yayBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yIOKAkyBMaW51 eCBTeXN0ZW1zDQpJb3ZhdGUgSGVhbHRoIFNjaWVuY2VzIEluYy4NCjUxMDAgU3BlY3RydW0gV2F5 DQpNaXNzaXNzYXVnYSwgT04gTDRXIDVTMiANCiggOTA1ICkgLSA2NzggLSAzMTE5ICAgeCAzMTM2 DQoxIC0gODg4IC0gMzM0IC0gNDQ0OCwgICAgeCAzMTM2ICh0b2xsLWZyZWUpDQpqYXNvbi5zaGVp bkBpb3ZhdGUuY29tIA0KDQpDdXN0b21lciBTZXJ2aWNlLiBDb2xsYWJvcmF0aW9uLiBJbm5vdmF0 aW9uLiBFZmZpY2llbmN5LiANCklvdmF0ZSdzIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgVGVhbSAN Cg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpDT05GSURFTlRJQUxJVFkgTk9USUNFOiANClRI SVMgRUxFQ1RST05JQyBNQUlMIFRSQU5TTUlTU0lPTiBJUyBQUklWSUxFR0VEIEFORCBDT05GSURF TlRJQUwgQU5EIElTDQpJTlRFTkRFRCBPTkxZIEZPUiBUSEUgUkVWSUVXIE9GIFRIRSBQQVJUWSBU TyBXSE9NIElUIElTIEFERFJFU1NFRC4gDQpUSEUgSU5GT1JNQVRJT04gQ09OVEFJTkVEIElOIFRI SVMgRS1NQUlMIElTIENPTkZJREVOVElBTCBBTkQgSVMgRElTQ0xPU0VEDQpUTyBZT1UgVU5ERVIg VEhFIEVYUFJFU1MgVU5ERVJTVEFORElORyBUSEFUIFlPVSBXSUxMIE5PVCBESVNDTE9TRSBJVA0K T1IgSVRTIENPTlRFTlRTIFRPIEFOWSBUSElSRCBQQVJUWSBXSVRIT1VUIFRIRSBFWFBSRVNTIFdS SVRURU4gQ09OU0VOVA0KT0YgQU4gQVVUSE9SSVpFRCBPRkZJQ0VSIE9GIElPVkFURSBIRUFMVEgg U0NJRU5DRVMgU0VSVklDRVMgSU5DLiBJRiBZT1UgDQpIQVZFDQpSRUNFSVZFRCBUSElTIFRSQU5T TUlTU0lPTiBJTiBFUlJPUiwgUExFQVNFIElNTUVESUFURUxZIFJFVFVSTiBJVCANClRPIFRIRSBT RU5ERVIuDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNCg0KDQpDaHJpcyBBaXRrZW4gPGNhaXRr ZW5AdmlhbmV0LmNhPiANClNlbnQgYnk6IG93bmVyLXRsdWdAc3Mub3JnDQoxMS8yOC8yMDA2IDEx OjEzIEFNDQpQbGVhc2UgcmVzcG9uZCB0bw0KdGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmcNCg0KDQpUbw0KdGx1Z0Bzcy5v cmcNCmNjDQoNClN1YmplY3QNClJlOiBbVExVR106IHJlcG9ydCBjYXJkcyByZWFkLW9ubHkgb24g ZmxvcHB5DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpIb3dhcmQgR2lic29uIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo8c25pcD4NCg0KPg0K PiAgIE15IG9sZCBmc3RhYiBsaW5lICh3aGljaCB3b3JrZWQpIHdhcy4uLiANCj4NCj4vZGV2L2Zk MCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAvbW50L2Zsb3BweSAgICAgICAgICAgICBhdXRvIG5vYXV0byx1c2Vy cyAgMCAgMA0KPiANCj4NCk9LLCBJIGFkZGVkICd1c2VycycgdG8gbXkgZmxvcHB5IGxpbmUsIHNh dmVkIGZzdGFiIGFuZCByZWJvb3RlZC4gU3RpbGwgDQpubyBsdWNrLg0KDQo8c25pcD4NCg0KLS0N ClRoZSBUb3JvbnRvIExpbnV4IFVzZXJzIEdyb3VwLiAgICAgIE1lZXRpbmdzOiBodHRwOi8vZ3Rh bHVnLm9yZy8NClRMVUcgcmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0 IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMNCkhvdyB0byBVTlNVQlNDUklCRTogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcv d2lraS9NYWlsaW5nX2xpc3RzDQoNCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:00:07 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:00:07 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <456C6B17.3090207@telly.org> Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I hate to ask the obvious, but have you attempted inserting a new blank floppy, and seeing if the problem persists? > Continuing with the 'eliminate the obvious' track, are you sure that the write-protect thingy is in the correct position on the disk, that it's covering the hole? Can you write to it from a Windows system? Or any other system? Before you agonize over mount options (using 'mtools' allows you to read and write to DOS-formetted floppies without mounting), just ensure that this particular floppy isn't read-only everywhere. I take it that USB flash/pen drives (smaller, more capacity, less flaky, and 128MB ones are now under $10) are not an option? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:05:16 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:05:16 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <456A4942.9020202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456A4942.9020202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1164733516.7720.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point where my > > only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power button. I'm > > using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what went wrong. Also > > is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try killing X and that > > doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it is hard to find a pattern > > in what causes the freeze. Any suggestions what I should do when this > > happens. Hate to have to do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . > > Someone (Seneca) taught me how to use alt+SysRQ. The magic order of keys > I find works best is RESUB, easuy to rememer and pretty much covers > rebooting as gracefully as possible. > > More here: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/457 Thank you. For some reason I can't get this key combination to work for me. My computer wants to do a screen grab when I do this. My SysRQ key seems to want to do a screen grab. Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by RESUB? Jim > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:06:58 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:06:58 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <26137.1164608027-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org> References: <26137.1164608027@heinous.org> Message-ID: <1164733618.7720.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > What's in the end of /var/log/messages, var/log/secure, etc ? > Does it happen after the same amount of uptime? > I often suggest running top in batch mode to a file, from a daily cron so that you have the last 24 hours of system perf data before any crash. Thanks this is a good idea, I'll try implementing this. Jim > -Joseph- > ---- This message was sent via a demo version of - http://atmail.com/-- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:13:18 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:13:18 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <200611271136.08392.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1f13df280611270806o7495e0ddif5536a702a53debc@mail.gmail.com> <200611271136.08392.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1164733998.7720.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > > > The commonest (but not the only) cause of mystery crashes I've > > found has been bad memory. > > The most common causes of mystery crashes I have found to be in this > order: > > 1. Flash on any browser - it's only a matter of time before I hit a > Flash infested site that will cause the disk access light to stay on > constantly and no keyboard, mouse, or ssh responsiveness. > > 2. Firefox - same as Flash story above. Yes I am usually running Firefox when a crash happens along with whatever else I may be doing at the time. > > 3. X, > > 4. Running Fedora Core :) > > Seriously, I had more crashes on the laptop on which I'm typing this > in the six weeks I ran FC5 than I did in the few years prior. I > haven't had a single crash since I dumped FC5 and installed Suse 10.1 > on this machine so I know it wasn't a hardware problem. I'm tempted to try another distribution however I really like the packages created for Fedora from http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ Maybe I should just always close Firefox when I'm not using it and see if I have less crashes. jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:27:40 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:27:40 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <1164733998.7720.41.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1f13df280611270806o7495e0ddif5536a702a53debc@mail.gmail.com> <200611271136.08392.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1164733998.7720.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: jim ruxton wrote: >>> The commonest (but not the only) cause of mystery crashes I've >>> found has been bad memory. >> The most common causes of mystery crashes I have found to be in this >> order: >> >> 1. Flash on any browser - it's only a matter of time before I hit a >> Flash infested site that will cause the disk access light to stay on >> constantly and no keyboard, mouse, or ssh responsiveness. >> >> 2. Firefox - same as Flash story above. > Yes I am usually running Firefox when a crash happens along with > whatever else I may be doing at the time. >> 3. X, >> >> 4. Running Fedora Core :) >> >> Seriously, I had more crashes on the laptop on which I'm typing this >> in the six weeks I ran FC5 than I did in the few years prior. I >> haven't had a single crash since I dumped FC5 and installed Suse 10.1 >> on this machine so I know it wasn't a hardware problem. > I'm tempted to try another distribution however I really like the > packages created for Fedora from > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ > > Maybe I should just always close Firefox when I'm not using it and see > if I have less crashes. I haven't used it too much, but FC6 is quite nice compared to 5 IMO. Completely subjective, it could just be the fantastic artwork. But package management with yum or yumex *seems* better than in FC5. I hear the upgrade through yum from 5 to 6 can be a pain though... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:31:20 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:31:20 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <1164733516.7720.31.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456A4942.9020202@utoronto.ca> <1164733516.7720.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: jim ruxton wrote: >>> Occasionally my computer will completely lock up to the point where my >>> only solution is a hard reset. ie. holding in the power button. I'm >>> using Fedora 5. What is the best way to find out what went wrong. Also >>> is there an alternative to the hard reset. I try killing X and that >>> doesn't seem to work. It happens rarely so it is hard to find a pattern >>> in what causes the freeze. Any suggestions what I should do when this >>> happens. Hate to have to do a hard reset on a linux system : ( . >> Someone (Seneca) taught me how to use alt+SysRQ. The magic order of keys >> I find works best is RESUB, easuy to rememer and pretty much covers >> rebooting as gracefully as possible. >> >> More here: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/457 > Thank you. For some reason I can't get this key combination to work for > me. My computer wants to do a screen grab when I do this. My SysRQ key > seems to want to do a screen grab. Perhaps I don't understand what you > mean by RESUB? The SysRq key is also print screen on any keyboard I've seen. Are you holding alt while pressing SysRq? If that doesn't work, do it with ctrl+alt+sysrq. Been a while since I needed it and don't want to restart, so I don't recall which it is. Pressing RSEUB (as someone suggested) while holding the sysrq and alt/ctrl keys down should do it. Save and close everything you're working on first! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:38:28 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:38:28 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456B79FF.2010802-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> My guess is that you've hit what I'll call the "Open Office file lock bug". I presume the files aren't read-only in any other program (e.g. you can say: touch /mnt/floppy/foo.doc). OpenOffice asks the system if it should be able to lock a file you are trying to open. If the answer is yes, it tries to lock it. If it should be able to lock it, but can't, then it marks it as read-only. I have noticed this from my iMac - some NFS mounts let me access files rw in OO, but other mounts don't and I get ro access (for details, it works on a NetApp mount, but not on a Linux mount). I'm guessing Linux thinks it can lock floppy-based files, but the driver doesn't support it. I don't actually completely understand this bug, because from network traces it looks like the Linux mount *can* do locking, but it's a small enough annoyance that I haven't allocated the time to fix the problem yet. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 15:21:58 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:21:58 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C4A45.8010903-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C3EA6.1070505@utoronto.ca> <456C4A45.8010903@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <456C5416.8080500@rogers.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > > >> But Linux does have a way of mounting a MSDOS or VFAT (FAT32) >> partition in such a way that it can "pretend" that each file or >> directory on such a partition has a specific set of attributes. > > Why would it be MSDOS or VFAT partition? I created all the files in > linux. > > I added 'rw' to the floppy line in /etc/fstab and rebooted (I couldn't > rember the command to get the system to re-read fstab). Still, the > files are read-only. I tried my chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy/ command > again - didn't help. I tried running that same command as the > superuser - again I get the read-only filesystem errors: > > [root at p733 chris]# chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy/ > chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/floppy/': Read-only file system > chmod: changing permissions of > `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.aaliyah.1.doc': Read-only file system > chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/floppy/rpt.0607.jk.austin.1.doc': > Read-only file system > What group is listed for the floppy? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:53:43 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:53:43 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <20061128173828.EABE9853CD-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> Dave Mason wrote: >My guess is that you've hit what I'll call the "Open Office file lock >bug". I presume the files aren't read-only in any other program >(e.g. you can say: touch /mnt/floppy/foo.doc). > > I tried that. Still read-only. [chris at p733 chris]$ su Password: [root at p733 chris]# touch /mnt/floppy/*.doc [root at p733 chris]# -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 17:54:40 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:54:40 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C5416.8080500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C3EA6.1070505@utoronto.ca> <456C4A45.8010903@vianet.ca> <456C5416.8080500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <456C77E0.4010507@vianet.ca> James Knott wrote: > What group is listed for the floppy? File owner and FIle group are both 'chris' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 18:03:48 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:03:48 -0800 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C77A7.1080708-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <456C7A04.1000807@mathstat.yorku.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > I tried that. Still read-only. > > [chris at p733 chris]$ su > Password: > [root at p733 chris]# touch /mnt/floppy/*.doc > [root at p733 chris]# I have to say I'm not sure why you want to do in-place editing of files on a floppy in the first place. Flexible media are inherently error-prone, and every read and every write is another chance for them to screw up. What I'd do is copy the file to my local hard disk, edit it there, and then copy it back. That way you do only one read and one write. (You might want to shred the copy remaining on your HDD afterwards, for privacy reasons.) If the write permissions won't let you copy it back, just blow away the whole filesystem on the floppy and make a new one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 18:36:43 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:36:43 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C77A7.1080708-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20061128183644.22FF9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> Dave Mason wrote: >My guess is that you've hit what I'll call the "Open Office file lock >bug". I presume the files aren't read-only in any other program >(e.g. you can say: touch /mnt/floppy/foo.doc). Chris Aitken wrote: > I tried that. Still read-only. > [chris at p733 chris]$ su > Password: > [root at p733 chris]# touch /mnt/floppy/*.doc > [root at p733 chris]# Try the touch *not* as root. If (as I expect) you get no error, then it's almost certainly the OpenOffice "bug". The touch command isn't a fix. There *is* no fix (unless/until Linux floppy driver clears up its support of locking, or OpenOffice decides to make the locking failure do something different). If you get an error similar to what you get on a regular file you only have read-only access to, like: ; touch /bin/sh touch: cannot touch `/bin/sh': Permission denied ; Then your problem with the floppy files is *not* the OpenOffice "bug", and you should keep looking. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 18:36:03 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:36:03 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C7A04.1000807-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> <456C7A04.1000807@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <456C8193.7040801@vianet.ca> Mike Oliver wrote: > I have to say I'm not sure why you want to do in-place > editing of files on a floppy in the first place. Flexible > media are inherently error-prone, and every read and every > write is another chance for them to screw up. What I'd > do is copy the file to my local hard disk, edit it there, > and then copy it back. That way you do only one read > and one write. That's a good idea. and I would still always have the most recent version on floppy to take to another PC when the need arises... > (You might want to shred the copy remaining > on your HDD afterwards, for privacy reasons.) > > If the write permissions won't let you copy it back, just > blow away the whole filesystem on the floppy and make > a new one. Good idea. Thanks. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 18:55:00 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:55:00 +0000 Subject: Article on "The Value of the Public Domain" Message-ID: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061127-8292.html The article gives weather data as the example of where open access (in the US, weather data is available to 'all' free of charge; they don't discuss restrictions) leads to greater economic value than restricted access (in the UK, you have to pay to get access to weather data). The cost to the government of collecting data may rise (the article suggests a doubling of costs, but this may not be indicative of anything meaningful, as the USA and EU are of different sizes), but the wider spread public usage of the data leads to greater economic value being attained from the data. Seems like an interesting counter to some of the "proprietaryist" arguments being thrown around surrounding things like DRM. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 21:34:45 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:34:45 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <20061127215002.GA13207-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not > within the United States? Here's the two I've been looking at: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/ http://hetzner.de/ The hetzner site has some English pages, but the support forums are in German. It's in the running because the price of 39 euro/month for a dedicated server is the lowest I've seen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 22:11:36 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:11:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C4C72.1070900-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C4C72.1070900@vianet.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Chris Aitken wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > > >> The only way to control what goes on the floppy in this situation is >> to fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0. >> >> >> > I did the following commands (trying to open a file from the floppy between > each command): > > [chris at p733 chris]$ mount /mnt/floppy > [chris at p733 chris]$ chmod 777 /dev/fd0 > [chris at p733 chris]$ su > Password: > [root at p733 chris]# chmod 777 /dev/fd0 > [root at p733 chris]# chmod -R 777 /dev/fd0 > [root at p733 chris]# > > ....still the files only open read-only. Why are you chmoding the device instead of the file system? chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 22:19:31 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:19:31 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <456C7A04.1000807-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> <456C7A04.1000807@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990611281419iba80248kd1870b182155e263@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/06, Mike Oliver wrote: > (You might want to shred the copy remaining > on your HDD afterwards, for privacy reasons.) This is going off topic from this thread, but I wanted to comment that this wouldn't be secure on most filesystems.. 1) I write a file to my disk 2) I repeatedly edit, and overwrite that file. The file could now be physically stored in a different location of the disk. 3) shred the file on my disk 4) notice that the old copies of the file are still scattered insecurely throughout the disk. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 22:22:03 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:22:03 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611281419iba80248kd1870b182155e263-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> <456C7A04.1000807@mathstat.yorku.ca> <1e55af990611281419iba80248kd1870b182155e263@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990611281422r694ca1c5u7290aa338483c6a8@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 11/28/06, Mike Oliver wrote: > > (You might want to shred the copy remaining > > on your HDD afterwards, for privacy reasons.) > > This is going off topic from this thread, but I wanted to comment that > this wouldn't be secure on most filesystems.. > > 1) I write a file to my disk > 2) I repeatedly edit, and overwrite that file. The file could now be > physically stored in a different location of the disk. > 3) shred the file on my disk > 4) notice that the old copies of the file are still scattered > insecurely throughout the disk. So yes, file shreding and free space wiping is the answer.. but it's terribly inconvenient to do sometimes.. so maybe using a thumb drive etc is indeed easier for security reasons (and worse for lifespan reasons) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 22:41:36 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:41:36 -0800 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990611281422r694ca1c5u7290aa338483c6a8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <20061128173828.EABE9853CD@sarg.ryerson.ca> <456C77A7.1080708@vianet.ca> <456C7A04.1000807@mathstat.yorku.ca> <1e55af990611281419iba80248kd1870b182155e263@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990611281422r694ca1c5u7290aa338483c6a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <456CBB20.3010308@mathstat.yorku.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > So yes, file shreding and free space wiping is the answer.. but it's > terribly inconvenient to do sometimes.. so maybe using a thumb drive > etc is indeed easier for security reasons (and worse for lifespan > reasons) How *do* you wipe free space on an ext2 or ext3 filesystem? I've never seen a utility specifically for that; I'd assume there must be one. (Of course you can always do "cat /dev/urandom > a" and wait till it fails on a full filesystem, then "rm a", but I'd think there'd be a cleaner solution somewhere.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 22:48:37 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:48:37 -0500 Subject: File/filesystem sterilization [was: report cards read-only on floppy] Message-ID: <1e55af990611281448t2318bc6fs8a42d3b883e60717@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/06, Mike Oliver wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > > So yes, file shreding and free space wiping is the answer.. but it's > > terribly inconvenient to do sometimes.. so maybe using a thumb drive > > etc is indeed easier for security reasons (and worse for lifespan > > reasons) > > How *do* you wipe free space on an ext2 or ext3 filesystem? I've > never seen a utility specifically for that; I'd assume there must > be one. (Of course you can always do "cat /dev/urandom > a" and > wait till it fails on a full filesystem, then "rm a", but I'd think > there'd be a cleaner solution somewhere.) I found a few ways, and took some notes here: http://jrandomhacker.info/Data_sterilization I do have a method for sterilizing free space. It's pretty easy actually. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 23:48:27 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:48:27 -0500 Subject: How best to debug a crash? In-Reply-To: <456C7268.2090706-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1164592827.2997.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456A4942.9020202@utoronto.ca> <1164733516.7720.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456C7268.2090706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1164757707.5626.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> > The SysRq key is also print screen on any keyboard I've seen. Are you > holding alt while pressing SysRq? If that doesn't work, do it with > ctrl+alt+sysrq. Been a while since I needed it and don't want to > restart, so I don't recall which it is. Pressing RSEUB (as someone > suggested) while holding the sysrq and alt/ctrl keys down should do it. > Save and close everything you're working on first! Sorry what exactly do you mean by RSEUB? jim > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 28 23:53:14 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:53:14 -0500 Subject: report cards read-only on floppy In-Reply-To: References: <456B79FF.2010802@vianet.ca> <456B7D1B.2060903@vianet.ca> <456B99E0.10707@vianet.ca> <20061128112841.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <456C4C72.1070900@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <456CCBEA.2050503@vianet.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> >> >>> The only way to control what goes on the floppy in this situation is >>> to fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0. >>> >>> >>> >> I did the following commands (trying to open a file from the floppy >> between each command): >> >> [chris at p733 chris]$ mount /mnt/floppy >> [chris at p733 chris]$ chmod 777 /dev/fd0 >> [chris at p733 chris]$ su >> Password: >> [root at p733 chris]# chmod 777 /dev/fd0 >> [root at p733 chris]# chmod -R 777 /dev/fd0 >> [root at p733 chris]# >> >> ....still the files only open read-only. > > > Why are you chmoding the device instead of the file system? > > chmod -R 777 /mnt/floppy Yeah, I tried that before I started this thread. Walter thought I'd have to "fiddle with the ownership and rwx permissions of /dev/fd0" (see above), so I tried that. you probably guessed it didn't work. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 05:09:25 2006 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:09:25 -0500 Subject: ISP's Message-ID: <200611290009.25930.glayng@sympatico.ca> It's been discussed here before, and now it's my turn. My company, about 40 employees and growing, are getting somewhat less than stirling service from Look.com. They've been having problems delivering our e-mails, and haven't been able to provide us with a single account rep. We get literally whoever answers the phone next. The plan we're on (don't blame me, I'm fairly new to the company) has a download/upload limit which we occasionally exceed. Yes, we have a website. We need an ISP capable of providing us with reliable support for our e-mail, internet connections and web site. Suggestions? -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 07:13:12 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:13:12 -0500 Subject: EMACS and Lisp In-Reply-To: <20061120155119.GB9643-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061120155119.GB9643@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <456D3308.3020002@interlog.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > 2. How does Lisp work? Is it interpreted like Perl or Python, or > compiled like C? How portable is it - if I installed it at work on a > Windoze machine, would the Lisp code I write on Linux work? > > 3. Which Lisp? I hear Lisp spoken of in the same sentence as Smalltalk > and Scheme - are they mostly the same? Is common Lisp the way to go? > > Any personal experiences to share or resources to recommend? Thanks. I have generally stayed away from Emacs. I'm quite happy with vi(m). I first read about Lisp when it was the theme of a BYTE magazine many years ago. I have never used Lisp. I have used (and use) the language known as Scheme (a Lisp variant). I have seen Scheme used for some of the computing component of some card games. I only use Scheme in relation to the Script-Fu scripting system of the graphics program GIMP. There are a lot of Scheme interpreters available. Guile, pltScheme, mzScheme, DrScheme, Bigloo, SCM, scheme48, and TinyScheme come to mind. I recently replaced the very old SIOD-based Scheme interpreter used in Script-Fu with TinyScheme since it was small, easy to embed, and follows the Scheme standard as much as is possible considering its small size. If the Scheme interpreter you use is available for, or can be compiled for, the OS yin which you want to run it, your code useable. If the Lisp/Scheme code is written for a given interpreter you may find you have trouble running it with a different one depending on the level of compliance to the standards and the library of routines provided by the different interpreters. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 08:22:32 2006 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:22:32 -0500 Subject: ISP's In-Reply-To: <200611290009.25930.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200611290009.25930.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420611290022k2794bce5p777a821b6ff3468c@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure if the service will be appropriate for a business, considering you have 40 people and my house has 2, but I can't say enough good things about OntarioDSL/TekSavvy. I signed up at http://www.ontariodsl.ca, but I think they're somehow related to the people at http://www.teksavvy.com. I have 5Mbs/800Kbs DSL plus a static IP for 35.99/month, all in. So far, the only downtime has been Bell's fault, and the people that man the phones are actually helpful--they're not just following some script. One detail that may be a downside for you is that my transfer is capped at 100GB/month, but I think they might offer unlimited plans. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 14:11:41 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:11:41 -0500 Subject: ISP's In-Reply-To: <7ac602420611290022k2794bce5p777a821b6ff3468c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200611290009.25930.glayng@sympatico.ca> <7ac602420611290022k2794bce5p777a821b6ff3468c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10611290611w4e05d960y21d81a32b1d80632@mail.gmail.com> On 11/29/06, Ian Petersen wrote: > I'm not sure if the service will be appropriate for a business, > considering you have 40 people and my house has 2, but I can't say > enough good things about OntarioDSL/TekSavvy. > > I signed up at http://www.ontariodsl.ca, but I think they're somehow > related to the people at http://www.teksavvy.com. I have 5Mbs/800Kbs > DSL plus a static IP for 35.99/month, all in. So far, the only > downtime has been Bell's fault, and the people that man the phones are > actually helpful--they're not just following some script. One detail > that may be a downside for you is that my transfer is capped at > 100GB/month, but I think they might offer unlimited plans. Another happy Teksavvy customer here, and I will second the remarks about the helpful tech support. -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build_it_yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 14:13:23 2006 From: vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:13:23 -0500 Subject: ISP's In-Reply-To: <200611290009.25930.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200611290009.25930.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <456D9583.9090508@vincefry.com> Gary Layng wrote: > It's been discussed here before, and now it's my turn. > > My company, about 40 employees and growing, are getting somewhat less than > stirling service from Look.com. They've been having problems delivering our > e-mails, and haven't been able to provide us with a single account rep. We > get literally whoever answers the phone next. The plan we're on (don't blame > me, I'm fairly new to the company) has a download/upload limit which we > occasionally exceed. > > Yes, we have a website. We need an ISP capable of providing us with reliable > support for our e-mail, internet connections and web site. > > Suggestions? > > -- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Take a look at Terago Networks. I've used them at several companies; they guarantee 99.999% uptime, and I have haven't had a single issue in the 3+ years I've been using them. http://www.terago.ca/InternetandDataServices Vince -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 15:43:55 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:43:55 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200611291044.04211.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 27 November 2006 19:06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > http://www.canadianwebhosting.com/vps.asp looks like it has what > you need. Problem is you never know where their datacenter(s) > is/are and they cost way too much for what you get. > > Seems a little pricey compared to someone like Quantact.com in the > US that offers a Xen based virtual server for 14.99/month, or > linode.com or unixshell.com, all of which are mostly in the same > price range and offer you full root in a XEN or UML virtual server. > > I agonized over the aformentioned 3 virutal providers last week and > settled on Quantact. > > For shared hosting I use dothost.ca who are based in Markham, and I > hear excellent things about blacksun.ca (python support on some > plans). Dothost doesn't have shell access which really gets to > being a problem. > > Go for a virtual server, for the price and the control you get, > they can't be beat. It's too bad they're all in the US which > doesn't fit your criteria, but everything else you're asking for > you can setup, with a selection of various distros as well. My company does shared hosting and offers Xen virtual servers (*) and all our servers are at a collocation facility right here in Toronto. The Xen virtualization model forces one to allocate RAM and disk statically. With the price of disk these days, it isn't such a big factor but RAM is still a scarce resource. All hosting, shared, VPS, or dedicated, depends on sharing scarce resources. At the low end of the price scale, it makes no sense to go with a VPS. I'd argue that a shared hosting account on a server that isn't overloaded is more useful to someone who just wants to host a blog than a Xen VPS with only 96M of RAM. A 96M Xen VPS could make a useful DNS or mail server but installing, say, Plone or some Java app server, or a database backed application that sees heavy use, would cause the VPS to be overloaded. In fact, $15 per month for a 96M Xen VPS is probably too low and should raise a red flag about how (over)loaded the underlying physical server will be. Even though Xen does a great job of virtualization, you still have I/O contention to deal with. One VPS with an I/O-intensive, database-backed web site can bring a whole server to its knees. One may be doing some mental arithmetic right now trying to figure out how many 96M VPS one can cram into a machine with 2GB(**) of RAM and scoff because one *knows* one can buy a low end $1000 1U server that can be divvied up into 19 x 96M VPS (the dom0, the Xen monitor uses the balance) and "make" $285/month (19 x $15). Such incredible payback! Just over three months to turn a "profit"! That ignores the other costs that one has in hosting, depreciation of equipment, bandwidth, electrical power, rack space (which is the most expensive real estate one can rent), ancillary support equipment such as switches, remote power management units, and remote console servers (price a KVM over IP unit sometime). Even if we assign a value of $0 to configuration, maintenance, and technical support, that leaves little to nothing in profit if one charges only $15/month for a VPS, not to mention that a low end server with 19 Xen VPS running on it is not likely to be a very pleasant server for any of the tenants of the individual virtual servers unless none of those servers are doing anything particularly intensive in which case a shared hosting account would have sufficed anyway. We're conditioned to expect prices of computers and associated technologies to always go down but the capital costs of servers constitute a decreasing proportion of the overall costs. Collocation pricing has been firm and, in fact, has gone up in the last couple of years. The owners of the colo facility in which we have our servers tell me that electrical power is one of the fastest growing costs for them and that it constitutes a significant portion of their costs. You may be surprised to find out how much an extra 15A circuit costs. With a 42U rack, typically, you get one 15A circuit, which is not enough to power 42 1U servers, assuming you could even put 42 1U servers in that rack due to heat load. (An extra 15A circuit will cost you $250 per month.) All that equipment has to be kept cool by chilling units and there has to be reliable power, which means keeping battery backup units and diesel generators at the ready. I wouldn't be surprised if two out of every three kW of power is consumed by things other than the servers in a typical colo facility. > You can also block those pesky law enforcement types with iptables > (on your virtual machine of course) and a blocklist from > bluetack.co.uk ( http://tinyurl.com/yc49ug for a full list of > bluetack's blocklists ). Any party who is determined to get to your site can do so through a proxy so such a scheme is nothing more than a placebo. > Unless we can get some TLUG'ers to get together and start up a > properly competitive XEN or UML hosting company, I think south of > the border is your only intelligent choice (in terms of cost), but > I'm with on wholeheartedly on having my data across the border as > the DMCA and Patriot act bother me greatly. All of our servers are right here in Toronto but I still wouldn't make any guarantees that they would be beyond the reach of authorities anywhere. In fact, my working assumption is that spy agencies can monitor any electronic communications they want at any time. We've never been approached by the authorities for anything but my response if approached would be, "We will comply with any request that is backed up by an order from a court with jurisdiction in the Province of Ontario." and leave it at that but I don't think they even have to resort to approaching us in all cases anyway. The authorities can just intercept traffic as it passes through the U.S. and no one would be the wiser. We have no control over how packets get routed between Toronto and Vancouver, for example. They can pass through the U.S. along the way. Many of the bandwidth providers are American companies anyway so even if the traffic stayed entirely within Canada, nothing prevents American spy agencies from monitoring that traffic, with or without the cooperation of Canadian authorities, if they lean on the companies in the U.S. There are good reasons to deal with local providers, such as being able to look the people whom you're dealing with in the eye, if you wish, potentially better routing for your target market, potentially better latency on shell accounts, protection from foreign exchange fluctuations, but protection from real or perceived threats from U.S. authorities isn't one of them. * Whether it's shared hosting or a VPS, Python and PostgreSQL are an important part of our hosting offerings. Plone, Zope, Django, TurboGears, Pylons, mod_python, and PostgreSQL are all treated as first class technologies here. Many hosting providers treat Python and PostgreSQL as if they were some exotic technologies and that is to their detriment. ** Low end servers tend to be Celerons and limited to 2GB of RAM. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 16:22:42 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:22:42 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <200611291044.04211.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200611291044.04211.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20061129162242.GA20973@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 10:43:55AM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >My company does shared hosting and offers Xen virtual servers (*) and >all our servers are at a collocation facility right here in Toronto. You forgot a URI to plug your company - since that's what I'm specifically looking for you needn't be shy. >We're conditioned to expect prices of computers and associated >technologies to always go down but the capital costs of servers >constitute a decreasing proportion of the overall costs. Collocation >pricing has been firm and, in fact, has gone up in the last couple of >years. The owners of the colo facility in which we have our servers >tell me that electrical power is one of the fastest growing costs for >them and that it constitutes a significant portion of their costs. >You may be surprised to find out how much an extra 15A circuit costs. >With a 42U rack, typically, you get one 15A circuit, which is not >enough to power 42 1U servers, assuming you could even put 42 1U >servers in that rack due to heat load. (An extra 15A circuit will >cost you $250 per month.) All that equipment has to be kept cool by >chilling units and there has to be reliable power, which means >keeping battery backup units and diesel generators at the ready. I >wouldn't be surprised if two out of every three kW of power is >consumed by things other than the servers in a typical colo facility. That's a good point, and interesting. >> You can also block those pesky law enforcement types with iptables >> (on your virtual machine of course) and a blocklist from >> bluetack.co.uk ( http://tinyurl.com/yc49ug for a full list of >> bluetack's blocklists ). > >Any party who is determined to get to your site can do so through a >proxy so such a scheme is nothing more than a placebo. Exactly, and I don't imagine that I could prevent an interested party from snooping on unencrypted web traffic. >All of our servers are right here in Toronto but I still wouldn't make >any guarantees that they would be beyond the reach of authorities >anywhere. In fact, my working assumption is that spy agencies can >monitor any electronic communications they want at any time. We've >never been approached by the authorities for anything but my response >if approached would be, "We will comply with any request that is >backed up by an order from a court with jurisdiction in the Province >of Ontario." This is exactly the protection I am looking for - for the request to route through the Canadian courts, rather than be subject to warrantless search and seizure. If the US "law" enforcement would seek FISA warrants I would be perfectly happy, but since the US government has rejected the rule of law I will not support US business for my technology choices. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 16:53:45 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:53:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Looking for Linux World Canada show ideas Message-ID: <20061129165345.20078.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Linux World Canada show (part of the IT360 show) is coming up in April 30 - May 2nd 2007. GTALug about to start negotiations regarding getting a booth, so what would people like to see at/in/happening regarding the booth? Keep in mind that we will likely have the following limitations: - Limited (but non-zero) budget. - Limited space (likely 100 square feet). - No electrical power (if we have power it will have to come from batteries, or there will have to be an excellent reason to spend the $$$ the convention centre demands). - Food limitations (to give away candy at the last show we needed a special permit, and all food had to be nut free, single serving, individually wrapped). - Height limits, anything over 10' above the floor requires a $$ permit (so last show our tallest bit was just over 9 feet tall :-) ). So going above 10 feet is not totally out of the question, but due to cost we will need an EXCELLENT reason to do so. Within the limits like the above we can do interesting things, but what? I want to hear ideas. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 17:12:15 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:12:15 -0500 Subject: Non-US based hosting? In-Reply-To: <20061127215002.GA13207-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061127215002.GA13207@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <456DBF6F.5000804@interlog.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for hosting where the server is not > within the United States? [snip] > Canadian companies are preferred, but mostly I'm interested in where my > sites *aren't* hosted (the US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.). Since a friend of mine commented in an e-mail to check out his updated web site and that he was amazed at the low cost of web hosting I started looking around to see what is out there. The following links may help you in your search. http://www.hosting-review.com/top-10-lists/top-10-web-hosts.shtml http://www.canadianwebhosting.com/ The top two Canadian sites appear to be the folowing: http://hostpapa.ca/ http://www.vistapages.com/ HostPapa offers domain name for life while VistaPages offers more disk space, and SSH/SSL but the domain names are an yearly extra cost. I am planning to move my web site from my current ISP to one of these hosting services since I use Rogers for Internet access. My current ISP, which I have used for years, keeps reducing services relating to the web servers. They recently turned off the ability to run any sort of cgi-bin scripts. HostPapa looks to be the best choice for me. I'd be interested in any information anyone might have on them. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 17:37:19 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:37:19 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux World Canada show ideas In-Reply-To: <20061129165345.20078.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061129165345.20078.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1164821839.3144.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 11:53 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > The Linux World Canada show (part of the IT360 show) > is coming up in April 30 - May 2nd 2007. The show this year is being diluted. It's a combination of Security IT world, Smalltalk world, network world, data storage world and finally Linux World. This is why Net Direct will not likely exhibit there this year. Since we probably won't we will have a 10' pop-up booth available if you need one. It has a black velcro loop back, lights, etc and we have a large L I N U X graphic that can go on it. Make any other graphic you like and attach it with pins or velcro. They are trying to increase the number of IT decision makers attending. So what audience do you want to hit and with what message? Linux enthusiasts: Join TLUG? IT Decision Makers: Use Linux, it's stable with low TCO? Send your staff to TLUG? Security People: Linux is secure? Use Linux security solutions? Come to TLUG? Network People: Use Linux firewalls, routers, etc? Come to TLUG? Storage People: Use Linux? Come to TLUG? Smalltalk people: Program in Linux? Come to TLUG? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 17:51:03 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:51:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Looking for Linux World Canada show ideas In-Reply-To: <1164821839.3144.17.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1164821839.3144.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20061129175103.42698.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 11:53 -0500, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > The Linux World Canada show (part of the IT360 > show) > > is coming up in April 30 - May 2nd 2007. > > The show this year is being diluted. It's a > combination of Security IT > world, Smalltalk world, network world, data storage > world and finally > Linux World. This is why Net Direct will not likely > exhibit there this > year. Since we probably won't we will have a 10' > pop-up booth available > if you need one. It has a black velcro loop back, > lights, etc and we > have a large L I N U X graphic that can go on it. > Make any other graphic > you like and attach it with pins or velcro. I hope we will be able to use the same booth furnishings that we used last show, which can be seen here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9028 But obviously strange things can happen, so if that falls through I will be in touch, thanks. > They are trying to increase the number of IT > decision makers attending. > > So what audience do you want to hit and with what > message? > > Linux enthusiasts: Join TLUG? Yes. > IT Decision Makers: Use Linux, it's stable with low > TCO? Send your staff to TLUG? > Security People: Linux is secure? Use Linux security > solutions? Come to > TLUG? > Network People: Use Linux firewalls, routers, etc? > Come to TLUG? > Storage People: Use Linux? Come to TLUG? > Smalltalk people: Program in Linux? Come to TLUG? Yes to all of the above :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 21:38:04 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:38:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: US patents again Message-ID: A good article in the Globe & Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061128.wpatentt29/ BNStory/Technology/home (paste on one line if it does not work). The US seems to know that things are wrong, but ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/29/supremes_make_sense_of_patents/ ... quoted therefrom: '' But Justice Scalia asked, "does it make sense to assume that patents are valid under a test that's been erroneous for 20 years"? Justice Souter observed that "if the error is common enough and long enough, the error becomes the law". '' Right. So at least we know there is a small problem. That's a good start. Now let's institutionalize it ... The list of big companies at the end and who they sided with in this case is worth reading a couple of times imho. M$ was not there, or at least nothing is said about it. IBM was. This is directly tangent with Ballmer asserting 'rights to Linux IP' and so on imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:22:49 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:22:49 -0500 Subject: How to combine Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291422j6b18d9a6o88d769b189c0d10@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Does anyone know where there is a how to on how to combine 2 ethernet cards into one? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:23:54 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:23:54 -0500 Subject: combining 2 ethernet cards using FC 6? Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Does anyone know how to combine 2 ethernet cards to act as one? I found this link haven't tried it yet (will be doing it tomorrow) I just want to know if anyone has been successful? Here's the link on how to do it with RHES3: :S http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-networkscripts-interfaces.html#S2-NETWORKSCRIPTS-INTERFACES-CHAN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:35:32 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:35:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd:How to combine Message-ID: <20061129223532.60946.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:22:49 -0500 > From: "Dave Germiquet" > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: How to combine > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know where there is a how to on > how to combine 2 > ethernet cards into one? A textbook on operating hydraulic presses :-) . A bit more seriously, what are you attempting to do? - Have automatic fail-over in case one card dies? - Load sharing? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:38:17 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:38:17 -0500 Subject: combining 2 ethernet cards using FC 6? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30611291438x703e1c4qb5069a960bf11f59@mail.gmail.com> Works like a charm. http://www.cyberciti.biz/howto/question/static/linux-ethernet-bonding-driver-howto.php Here is my setup: (mode=1 is failover) /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-bond0 DEVICE=bond0 BOOTPROTO='none' BROADCAST='1.1.1.255' IPADDR='1.1.1.3' MTU='' NETMASK='255.255.255.0' NETWORK='1.1.1.0' REMOTE_IPADDR='' STARTMODE='onboot' BONDING_MASTER='yes' BONDING_MODULE_OPTS='mode=1 miimon=100' BONDING_SLAVE_0='eth0' BONDING_SLAVE_1='eth1' /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0: BOOTPROTO='static' BROADCAST='' ETHTOOL_OPTIONS='' IPADDR='1.1.1.1' MTU='' NAME='Intel PRO/1000 MT Dual Port Server Adapter' NETMASK='255.255.255.0' NETWORK='' REMOTE_IPADDR='' STARTMODE='auto' UNIQUE='rBUF.Mmt+I_09Qk2' USERCONTROL='no' _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:01:01.0' /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth1 BOOTPROTO='static' BROADCAST='' ETHTOOL_OPTIONS='' IPADDR='1.1.1.2' MTU='' NAME='Intel PRO/1000 MT Dual Port Server Adapter' NETMASK='255.255.255.0' NETWORK='' REMOTE_IPADDR='' STARTMODE='auto' UNIQUE='JNkJ.Mmt+I_09Qk2' USERCONTROL='no' _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:01:01.1' PREFIXLEN='' On 11/29/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone know how to combine 2 ethernet cards to act as one? I > found this link haven't tried it yet (will be doing it tomorrow) > > I just want to know if anyone has been successful? > > Here's the link on how to do it with RHES3: :S > > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-networkscripts-interfaces.html#S2-NETWORKSCRIPTS-INTERFACES-CHAN > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:48:52 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:48:52 -0500 Subject: How to combine In-Reply-To: <20061129223532.60946.qmail-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061129223532.60946.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291448k428b9c16vbd6f2946e64a2cb1@mail.gmail.com> Hi Colin, On 11/29/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:22:49 -0500 > > From: "Dave Germiquet" > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: [TLUG]: How to combine > > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know where there is a how to on > > how to combine 2 > > ethernet cards into one? > > A textbook on operating hydraulic presses :-) . > > A bit more seriously, what are you attempting to do? > > - Have automatic fail-over in case one card dies? > - Load sharing? > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:54:42 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:54:42 -0500 Subject: combining 2 ethernet cards using FC 6? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291454l249c8f5ft11e3e94d5f4381a@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Colin I lost your email so I was unable to reply to it :S Anyway, in windows its called Teaming however I beleive the correct phrase maybe Load Sharing. I am trying to use both ethernet devices at the same time using the same ethernet port so I can use double the speed. (both 1,000 at the same time). I have the link below that tells you how to do it with RHES3 and I will be trying it tomorrow however I wanna get all the info I can before i proceed. On 11/29/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know how to combine 2 ethernet cards to act as one? I > found this link haven't tried it yet (will be doing it tomorrow) > > I just want to know if anyone has been successful? > > Here's the link on how to do it with RHES3: :S > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-networkscripts-interfaces.html#S2-NETWORKSCRIPTS-INTERFACES-CHAN > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 22:59:03 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:59:03 -0500 Subject: combining 2 ethernet cards using FC 6? In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30611291438x703e1c4qb5069a960bf11f59-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611291423v6d2e29d1v1e448f0a2f9d274@mail.gmail.com> <2274b9c30611291438x703e1c4qb5069a960bf11f59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291459v7ee4d249hd3afd1b07cae399e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Kyle. Looks similiar to RHES3 howto though i havent fully read it yet. :) I'll be implementing it tomorrow :) On 11/29/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > > Works like a charm. > > > http://www.cyberciti.biz/howto/question/static/linux-ethernet-bonding-driver-howto.php > > Here is my setup: > (mode=1 is failover) > > /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-bond0 > DEVICE=bond0 > BOOTPROTO='none' > BROADCAST='1.1.1.255' > IPADDR='1.1.1.3' > MTU='' > NETMASK='255.255.255.0' > NETWORK='1.1.1.0' > REMOTE_IPADDR='' > STARTMODE='onboot' > BONDING_MASTER='yes' > BONDING_MODULE_OPTS='mode=1 miimon=100' > BONDING_SLAVE_0='eth0' > BONDING_SLAVE_1='eth1' > > /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0: > BOOTPROTO='static' > BROADCAST='' > ETHTOOL_OPTIONS='' > IPADDR='1.1.1.1' > MTU='' > NAME='Intel PRO/1000 MT Dual Port Server Adapter' > NETMASK='255.255.255.0' > NETWORK='' > REMOTE_IPADDR='' > STARTMODE='auto' > UNIQUE='rBUF.Mmt+I_09Qk2' > USERCONTROL='no' > _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:01:01.0' > > /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth1 > BOOTPROTO='static' > BROADCAST='' > ETHTOOL_OPTIONS='' > IPADDR='1.1.1.2' > MTU='' > NAME='Intel PRO/1000 MT Dual Port Server Adapter' > NETMASK='255.255.255.0' > NETWORK='' > REMOTE_IPADDR='' > STARTMODE='auto' > UNIQUE='JNkJ.Mmt+I_09Qk2' > USERCONTROL='no' > _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:01:01.1' > PREFIXLEN='' > > > > On 11/29/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know how to combine 2 ethernet cards to act as one? I > > found this link haven't tried it yet (will be doing it tomorrow) > > > > I just want to know if anyone has been successful? > > > > Here's the link on how to do it with RHES3: :S > > > > > > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-networkscripts-interfaces.html#S2-NETWORKSCRIPTS-INTERFACES-CHAN > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 23:16:10 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:16:10 -0500 Subject: How to tell if an ethernet card is working at gigabyte Message-ID: <32f6a8880611291516h667c24adr38b3dbdf9d7e0702@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have a gigabyte nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a3) controller.. its loading the forcedeth driver.. However i dont know if its at 1 gigabyte because ethtool does not work correctly. Is there anyway to see if linux is properly supporting it? I guess I could try transferring a file.. but I wouldn't want to do that, the switch is reporting it with 1000... Here is my dmesg output related to eth0 that i can see: forcedeth.c: Reverse Engineered nForce ethernet driver. Version 0.56. forcedeth: using HIGHDMA eth0: forcedeth.c: subsystem: 01043:81d3 bound to 0000:00:13.0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 23:25:30 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:25:30 +0000 Subject: How to tell if an ethernet card is working at gigabyte In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611291516h667c24adr38b3dbdf9d7e0702-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611291516h667c24adr38b3dbdf9d7e0702@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1753294986-1164842803-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-495787063-@bxe014-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Does dmesg show any output from the driver? Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Germiquet" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:16:10 To:tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: How to tell if an ethernet card is working at gigabyte Hi, ?????????? I have a gigabyte? nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a3) controller.. its loading the forcedeth driver.. However i dont know if its at 1 gigabyte because ethtool does not work correctly. ?????????? Is there anyway to see if linux is properly supporting it? ?????????? I? guess I could try transferring a file.. but I wouldn't want to do that, the switch is reporting it with 1000... ??????????? Here is my dmesg output related to eth0 that i can see: forcedeth.c: Reverse Engineered nForce ethernet driver. Version 0.56. forcedeth: using HIGHDMA ??????????? eth0: forcedeth.c: subsystem: 01043:81d3 bound to 0000:00:13.0 From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 29 23:56:01 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:56:01 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: <20061128011000.GB5450-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> <20061128011000.GB5450@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: You're joking, right? all three functions can be replaced with "`printf %.3d $i`.flv";((++i)); In the spirit of free software, I cleaned up the script. It's also attached, since GMail likes to mangle my text. #!/bin/bash # This script can be run from anywhere and will output a directory in the # current folder full of flash files. If the first argument is -t, it will also # transcode them all using ffmpeg2theora as a bonus. CURDIR=`pwd`; OUTDIR="$CURDIR/CachedFlashFiles"; mkdir -p $OUTDIR; # change to cache dir by assuming that there's only one directory in the firefox # dir, but we don't know what it is, so cd to the first directory we can find # and hope it has a Cache folder in it for file in ~/.mozilla/firefox/*; do if [ -d $file ]; then cd $file/Cache || { echo "I screwed up, change to your Cache directory and run this again for better results. Press ctrl-c to kill the script now unless you're aready in the desired directory." && sleep 5; } break; fi; done i=1; for file in *; do if echo "`file ${file}`" | grep "Macromedia Flash Video" > /dev/null ; then cp ${file} $OUTDIR/"`printf %.3d $i`.flv"; ((++i)); fi done if [ "x-t" == "x$1" ]; then cd $OUTDIR; for file in $OUTDIR/*.flv; do ffmpeg2theora "$file"; done fi cd $CURDIR; On 11/27/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 03:57:38PM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote > > > I use the 'youtube-dl' script to download the videos: > > > > http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/11/197251&tid=47 > > I have my own version that is foolproof, no matter what the website > does to block it. You see, Firefox creates a temporary file in its > Cache directory, and hands that off to Flash to play. The file is left > in the Cache folder after playing. I play a bunch of Youtube or > video.google.com files as per normal. Then, from a console commandline, > I cd to the cache directory and execute the following script which I > call "getflv". Warning... contains backtick expandos; You don't know > me, so verify for your self that it's harmless. The script scans > through all the files in the currecnt directory (I did say to cd to the > Cache dir), and any files that are determined to be flv get renamed to > w.000.flv, w.001.flv, w.002.flv, etc. > > ======================================================================= > #!/bin/bash > > decrement() { > echo $(( $1 - 1 )) > } > > increment() { > echo $(( $1 + 1 )) > } > > getnextversion() { > NUMBER= > DIGITPOINTER=0 > while [ ${DIGITPOINTER} -lt ${1} ] > do > NUMBER=${NUMBER}0 > DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=0 > DIGITPOINTER=`increment ${DIGITPOINTER}` > done > while [ -e ${2}${NUMBER}${3} ] > do > DIGITPOINTER=`decrement ${1}` > DIGITPNTLEFT=`decrement ${DIGITPOINTER}` > DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=`increment ${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]}` > NUMBER= > while [ ${DIGITPOINTER} -ge 0 ] > do > if [ ${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]} -eq 10 ] > then > DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]=0 > if [ ${DIGITPNTLEFT} -gt 0 ] > then > DIGIT[${DIGITPNTLEFT}]=`increment ${DIGIT[${DIGITPNTLEFT}]}` > fi > fi > NUMBER=${DIGIT[${DIGITPOINTER}]}${NUMBER} > DIGITPOINTER=${DIGITPNTLEFT} > DIGITPNTLEFT=`decrement ${DIGITPNTLEFT}` > done > done > echo ${2}${NUMBER}${3} > } > > for filename in * > do > if echo "`file ${filename}`" | grep "Macromedia Flash Video" ; then > newfilename=`getnextversion 3 w. .flv` > mv ${filename} ${newfilename} > echo ${newfilename} > fi > done > ======================================================================= > > You can inspect and move all the w.???.flv files to wherever. > > > ...and ffmpeg converts the *.flv files to *.avi files: > > > > ffmpeg -i .flv .avi > > mplayer handles it just find, as long as you remember to close the > browser (you can re-open it if you want). Flash doesn't close the audio > device after finishing... idiots. > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://techsec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: getflashfiles.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 1786 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 03:30:54 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:30:54 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? Message-ID: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am trying to setup a tiny test script on Debian Sarge/Apache2/PostgreSQL 8.1/PHP5. Problem is, php5 doesn't have support for pg_connect (get the error "Fatal error: Call to undefined function pg_connect() in /var/www/html/index.php on line 2"). Apparently pgsql support is specifically excluded by default? I've installed 'php5-pgsql', ran 'dpkg-reconfigure php5-pgsql', made sure 'extension=pgsql.so' was in '/etc/php5/apache2/php.ini' and restarted Apache and PostgreSQL. I've tried with and without a password on the pgsql user... Still no luck though. Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? Here is my script, in all it's glory: Crazy complex, no? *sigh* Anyone have any idea what the heck I am doing wrong mind hitting me a clue-stick? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 04:07:42 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:07:42 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456E506E.9000706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? I gave up looong time ago and when I install apache (and php, mysql, postgres, etc) I do that by compiling from sources. It is really simple to do and you are free. I would never trust installing these things from rpm or another apt-get. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 04:12:03 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:12:03 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate Message-ID: Thought you guys might find this interesting (maybe its already been discussed here): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/technology/30laptop.html?hp&ex=1164862800&en=303aca02ff156728&ei=5094&partner=homepage Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 04:42:49 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:42:49 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux World Canada show ideas In-Reply-To: <1164821839.3144.17.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20061129165345.20078.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164821839.3144.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 11/29/06, John Van Ostrand wrote: > The show this year is being diluted. It's a combination of Security IT > world, Smalltalk world, network world, data storage world and finally > Linux World. I thought that the Smalltalk connection was pretty weak last year. There are implementations that run on Linux, but it seemed as if they were a pretty irrelevant addition to the show, essentially because the set of users of Smalltalk on Linux are about as small a subset as the set of Smalltalk users in general. That being said, storage is something where the relationship with Linux is steadily getting stronger. Networking and security are arguably a bit more weakly connected, but these seem way more relevant than Smalltalk... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 05:03:10 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:03:10 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456E506E.9000706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <456E660E.70900@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to setup a tiny test script on Debian > Sarge/Apache2/PostgreSQL 8.1/PHP5. Problem is, php5 doesn't have support > for pg_connect (get the error "Fatal error: Call to undefined function > pg_connect() in /var/www/html/index.php on line 2"). Apparently pgsql > support is specifically excluded by default? It may be the case that you need libapache2-mod-php5. Not sure if it gets installed as a dependency or not. Before you do that, try checking php and apache to see that they work together: You should be able to find a section called pgsql. > I've installed 'php5-pgsql', ran 'dpkg-reconfigure php5-pgsql', made > sure 'extension=pgsql.so' was in '/etc/php5/apache2/php.ini' and > restarted Apache and PostgreSQL. I've tried with and without a password > on the pgsql user... Still no luck though. > > Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? > > Here is my script, in all it's glory: > > $dbh=pg_connect("dbname=phpbb_mb user=digimer password=secret") or > die("Couldn't Connect ".pg_last_error()); > ?> > > Crazy complex, no? *sigh* Anyone have any idea what the heck I am > doing wrong mind hitting me a clue-stick? Dependency for the apache module or perhaps (unlikely, or rather, no clue if it matters) your script needs to be owned by www-data? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 05:39:28 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:39:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> <20061128011000.GB5450@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Simon | # change to cache dir by assuming that there's only one directory in the | # firefox | # dir, but we don't know what it is, so cd to the first directory we can find | # and hope it has a Cache folder in it | for file in ~/.mozilla/firefox/*; do | if [ -d $file ]; then | cd $file/Cache || { echo "I screwed up, change to your Cache | directory and run this again for better results. Press ctrl-c to kill | the script | now unless you're aready in the desired directory." && sleep | 5; } | break; | fi; | done The line breaks in the echo and sleep commands are accidental, I assume. So I'm reading them out. It is often best to fold long lines oneself. I don't understand the && before the sleep. It should not be necessary when { } is used. The "if all else fails, fall through" seems scary. Perhaps a check that `pwd matches` ~/.mozilla/*/*/Cache would be a good idea. Error messages should go to standard error and should be clearly marked as errors. They should make it clear what is reporting the error. This seems simpler [UNTESTED]: # change into the first firefox Cache directory cd ~/.mozilla/firefox/*/Cache/. \ || { echo "Error: $0 didn't find a firefox Cache directory" >&2 exit 1; } If there are multiple firefox subdirectories with with Cache subdirectories, this will choose the first (cd seems to ignore arguments after the first -- yuck). If you wish to better handle this case, the right thing might be to make this a for loop and have the rest of the script in the for body: scavange files from all Caches. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 12:38:01 2006 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol writes: > On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? > > I gave up looong time ago and when I install apache (and php, mysql, postgres, > etc) I do that by compiling from sources. It is really simple to do and you > are free. I would never trust installing these things from rpm or another > apt-get. True here too. Having a LAMPP (the 2nd P is for Postgresql) fresh source set on CD is one of my primary concerns. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 16:03:29 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:03:29 -0500 Subject: How to combine In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880611291422j6b18d9a6o88d769b189c0d10-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880611291422j6b18d9a6o88d769b189c0d10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Linux, the capability to combine multiple NICs into one is termed "bonding". How you set it up is distribution specific and there are HOWTOs and documentation available for most distros. Try a google search for bonding and your distro. If you're connecting two Linux machines together directly (without an intervening switch), you'll need to configure bonding on both systems. If you're connecting to a switch, you'll need a switch that supports trunking (that's the Cisco term, IIRC, but I think most switch manufacturers use that term). HTH, Tim "Dave Germiquet" writes: > Hi All, > > Does anyone know where there is a how to on how to combine 2 > ethernet cards into one? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 16:13:34 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:13:34 -0500 Subject: How to combine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Setup_Bonded_ethernet_adapters _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ Tim Writer Sent by: owner-tlug at ss.org 11/30/2006 11:03 AM Please respond to tlug at ss.org To tlug at ss.org cc Subject Re: [TLUG]: How to combine On Linux, the capability to combine multiple NICs into one is termed "bonding". How you set it up is distribution specific and there are HOWTOs and documentation available for most distros. Try a google search for bonding and your distro. If you're connecting two Linux machines together directly (without an intervening switch), you'll need to configure bonding on both systems. If you're connecting to a switch, you'll need a switch that supports trunking (that's the Cisco term, IIRC, but I think most switch manufacturers use that term). HTH, Tim "Dave Germiquet" writes: > Hi All, > > Does anyone know where there is a how to on how to combine 2 > ethernet cards into one? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 16:57:42 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:57:42 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <200611292307.42709.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <456F0D86.4010500@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? > > I gave up looong time ago and when I install apache (and php, mysql, postgres, > etc) I do that by compiling from sources. It is really simple to do and you > are free. I would never trust installing these things from rpm or another > apt-get. > > zb. That's an unfortunate statement, but understandable. You'd think something as popular as PHP would have support for a DB server like PostgreSQL. Is there any public rationale for such poor support? I've never had trouble with Perl + PostgreSQL/MySQL and can't fathom why PHP would. Oh well... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 16:59:05 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:59:05 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456E660E.70900-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <456E660E.70900@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <456F0DD9.4040906@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am trying to setup a tiny test script on Debian >> Sarge/Apache2/PostgreSQL 8.1/PHP5. Problem is, php5 doesn't have >> support for pg_connect (get the error "Fatal error: Call to undefined >> function pg_connect() in /var/www/html/index.php on line 2"). >> Apparently pgsql support is specifically excluded by default? > > It may be the case that you need libapache2-mod-php5. Not sure if it > gets installed as a dependency or not. Before you do that, try checking > php and apache to see that they work together: > > > > You should be able to find a section called pgsql. > >> I've installed 'php5-pgsql', ran 'dpkg-reconfigure php5-pgsql', made >> sure 'extension=pgsql.so' was in '/etc/php5/apache2/php.ini' and >> restarted Apache and PostgreSQL. I've tried with and without a >> password on the pgsql user... Still no luck though. >> >> Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? >> >> Here is my script, in all it's glory: >> >> > $dbh=pg_connect("dbname=phpbb_mb user=digimer password=secret") or >> die("Couldn't Connect ".pg_last_error()); >> ?> >> >> Crazy complex, no? *sigh* Anyone have any idea what the heck I am >> doing wrong mind hitting me a clue-stick? > > Dependency for the apache module or perhaps (unlikely, or rather, no > clue if it matters) your script needs to be owned by www-data? > > Jamon I have no idea why, but it started working... I wish I could point to why. This really doesn't endear me to PHP. Why are all the good BBS forums written in PHP? *sigh*. Anyway, I'm up and running so there ya go. Thanks kindly for your reply! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 17:07:24 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:07:24 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456F0D86.4010500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> <456F0D86.4010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison, http://us2.php.net/pgsql is the second hit on Google for PHP and PostgreSQL. On 11/30/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >> Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? > > > > I gave up looong time ago and when I install apache (and php, mysql, > postgres, > > etc) I do that by compiling from sources. It is really simple to do and > you > > are free. I would never trust installing these things from rpm or > another > > apt-get. > > > > zb. > > That's an unfortunate statement, but understandable. You'd think > something as popular as PHP would have support for a DB server like > PostgreSQL. Is there any public rationale for such poor support? I've > never had trouble with Perl + PostgreSQL/MySQL and can't fathom why PHP > would. Oh well... > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 17:04:11 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:04:11 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456E660E.70900-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <456E660E.70900@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <456F0F0B.3040309@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am trying to setup a tiny test script on Debian >> Sarge/Apache2/PostgreSQL 8.1/PHP5. Problem is, php5 doesn't have >> support for pg_connect (get the error "Fatal error: Call to undefined >> function pg_connect() in /var/www/html/index.php on line 2"). >> Apparently pgsql support is specifically excluded by default? > > It may be the case that you need libapache2-mod-php5. Not sure if it > gets installed as a dependency or not. Before you do that, try checking > php and apache to see that they work together: > > > > You should be able to find a section called pgsql. > >> I've installed 'php5-pgsql', ran 'dpkg-reconfigure php5-pgsql', made >> sure 'extension=pgsql.so' was in '/etc/php5/apache2/php.ini' and >> restarted Apache and PostgreSQL. I've tried with and without a >> password on the pgsql user... Still no luck though. >> >> Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? >> >> Here is my script, in all it's glory: >> >> > $dbh=pg_connect("dbname=phpbb_mb user=digimer password=secret") or >> die("Couldn't Connect ".pg_last_error()); >> ?> >> >> Crazy complex, no? *sigh* Anyone have any idea what the heck I am >> doing wrong mind hitting me a clue-stick? > > Dependency for the apache module or perhaps (unlikely, or rather, no > clue if it matters) your script needs to be owned by www-data? > > Jamon I have no idea why, but it started working... I wish I could point to why. This really doesn't endear me to PHP. Why are all the good BBS forums written in PHP? *sigh*. Anyway, I'm up and running so there ya go. Thanks kindly for your reply! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 17:52:48 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:52:48 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> <456F0D86.4010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <456F1A70.7070503@alteeve.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Madison, > > http://us2.php.net/pgsql Read that when trying to get it working. Great resource, but it didn't help because pgsql support was explicitely removed when PHP was compiled. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 18:04:41 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:04:41 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1164909881.3931.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Yes I know a poor African boy/girl desperately need a laptop. How else can the carry water from the stream to their hut? How about looking at what drives this lunacy. Big banks, the 'New World Disorder'. Check out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198 RickT This is the "Director's Final Cut" authorized version of Aaron Russo's documentary, America: Freedom To Fascism (AFTF). It is being uploaded to Google Video for the first time during the evening of October 19-20th, 2006. Aaron has listened to everyone's feedback - volunteers, students, lovers of freedom & liberty, young and old alike - and, true to his word, he is putting this up "for free" on Google Video knowing that the hour has come for Americans to either be awakened to restore the Republic or be swept aside by the dark global forces of fascism that seeks to enslave mankind. AFTF's main focus comes in a statement with six very simple words: SHUT DOWN THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM!! After viewing the movie, please be sure to visit http://www.freedomtofascism.com On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 23:12 -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: > Thought you guys might find this interesting (maybe its already been > discussed here): > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/technology/30laptop.html?hp&ex=1164862800&en=303aca02ff156728&ei=5094&partner=homepage > > Alex > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 18:15:11 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:15:11 -0500 Subject: What to do with .flv files? In-Reply-To: References: <45651771.80906@telly.org> <61e9e2b10611231257k7b7b44c0pa06791bf3bac8e01@mail.gmail.com> <20061128011000.GB5450@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Like I said, gmail likes to mangle text, so I attached it as well. The reason for the fallthrough is to keep the script non-interactive, while for people with more than one directory in their firefox directory, they can manually cd to the proper one and use it. I forgot that doing */Cache would handle everything properly - the best thing would be for dir in */Cache; do . Either way, the fallthrough is safe, the script doesn't do anything in the directory it falls into, it only outputs to the working directory. I didn't know I needed a script like this, but it's a pretty convenient and foolproof way to grab flv files, once it's fully automated - thanks for the great idea, Walter, this is going into my ~/bin. On 11/30/06, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Simon > > | # change to cache dir by assuming that there's only one directory in the > | # firefox > | # dir, but we don't know what it is, so cd to the first directory we can find > | # and hope it has a Cache folder in it > | for file in ~/.mozilla/firefox/*; do > | if [ -d $file ]; then > | cd $file/Cache || { echo "I screwed up, change to your Cache > | directory and run this again for better results. Press ctrl-c to kill > | the script > | now unless you're aready in the desired directory." && sleep > | 5; } > | break; > | fi; > | done > > The line breaks in the echo and sleep commands are accidental, I > assume. So I'm reading them out. It is often best to fold long lines > oneself. > > I don't understand the && before the sleep. It should not be > necessary when { } is used. > > The "if all else fails, fall through" seems scary. Perhaps a check > that `pwd matches` ~/.mozilla/*/*/Cache would be a good idea. > > Error messages should go to standard error and should be clearly > marked as errors. They should make it clear what is reporting the > error. > > This seems simpler [UNTESTED]: > > # change into the first firefox Cache directory > cd ~/.mozilla/firefox/*/Cache/. \ > || { > echo "Error: $0 didn't find a firefox Cache directory" >&2 > exit 1; > } > > If there are multiple firefox subdirectories with with Cache > subdirectories, this will choose the first (cd seems to ignore > arguments after the first -- yuck). > > If you wish to better handle this case, the right thing might be to > make this a for loop and have the rest of the script in the for body: > scavange files from all Caches. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 18:19:27 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:19:27 -0500 Subject: US patents again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1164910767.3931.18.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 21:38 +0000, Peter P. wrote: > This is directly tangent with Ballmer asserting 'rights to Linux IP' and so on > imho. > Ballmer asserts rights to everything IMHO...creepy According to Wikipedia Ballmer was born in Detroit, Michigan. His father, Frederick Ballmer, was a Swiss immigrant; his mother, Beatrice Dworkin, was Jewish. Ballmer grew up with his younger sister in Farmington Hills near Detroit, where his father worked as a manager at Ford Motor Company. During his studies at the Detroit Country Day School, Ballmer was the manager of the school's basketball team. In 1973, he graduated from school with a grade point average of 4.0 and was the valedictorian of his class. He scored a perfect 800 on the math SAT[citation needed] and competed in math tournaments. Ballmer won a scholarship to Harvard College. During his freshman year he developed a close friendship with his dormmate, Bill Gates, a friendship that continued even after Gates dropped out of Harvard to start his own software company, So whats the moral of the story. Learn to manage managers and free your life from the mentally ill megalomaniacs. Computer skills alone are not enough. A good computer tech needs business and marketing skills. RickT > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 18:56:40 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:56:40 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <1164909881.3931.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1164909881.3931.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <456F2968.4080409@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Yes I know a poor African boy/girl desperately need a laptop. How else can the carry water from the stream to their hut? OLPC is not going to replace irrigation and low tech needs, but it serves a very different purpose. Education and literacy improvement is a very important component of lifting societies out of poverty, and technology does have a role to play. For example: the introduction of the cellphone, together with the concept of microcredits, have increased revenue for rural African farmers by eliminating (often corrupt) middlemen in finding buyers and conducting price negotiations. Tiny cheap computers, on the own, will add little. However, they will enable OTHER things to happen in the field of communications and education. Huge amounts of money have already been donated in this regard, largely proving to be of little value by the time any of the aid trickled down to the villages. This looks like an effort in which most of the money spent will actually make it into the hand of the intended recipients. As well, look at the countries ordering the project -- Brazil, Thailand, Libya, Argentina. None of these are in the poorest parts of Africa, and they already have computer literacy initiatives in place. Many developing countries look to India and want a piece of the IT outsourcing pie. The OLPC is a good step in helping increasing basic literacy and computer literacy. Some countries -- notably Brazil -- see OLPC and related efforts as a way to make their countries more self-sufficient in IT and not dependent on the US. So if the World Bank is willing to help this happen, that's fine with me. > How about looking at what drives this lunacy. Big banks, the 'New World Disorder'. Sorry, but that doesn't wash. The convenient scam inherent in conspiracy theories is that reasonable efforts to disprove them are met with accusations of being part of the conspiracy. As someone who has personally had to defend association-by-faith to the targets of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, (and mutations of it such as Henry Ford's accusation that Jewish bankers started world war 1) I find such "revelations" to be worse than a waste of time. They are truly destructive to real attempts at societal progress, a thinly-veiled excuse for bigotry that is no better than racism or religious extremism. Anyone who tells you he has _the_ truth, surely doesn't. And bankers are people too. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 19:41:28 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:41:28 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <456F2968.4080409-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1164909881.3931.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <456F2968.4080409@telly.org> Message-ID: <1164915688.3931.26.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I'm tired of solving the worlds problems while our own country goes to hell. Solving third world dilemmas while a noble cause does little to help me find work in and around Toronto. The list server is the Toronto Linux Users Group. I don't tie religious associations with my business. I simply observe what I see. As for 'bankers being people too' so are lawyers but I digress. RickT "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 13:56 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Yes I know a poor African boy/girl desperately need a laptop. How else can the carry water from the stream to their hut? > OLPC is not going to replace irrigation and low tech needs, but it > serves a very different purpose. Education and literacy improvement is a > very important component of lifting societies out of poverty, and > technology does have a role to play. For example: the introduction of > the cellphone, together with the concept of microcredits, have increased > revenue for rural African farmers by eliminating (often corrupt) > middlemen in finding buyers and conducting price negotiations. > > Tiny cheap computers, on the own, will add little. However, they will > enable OTHER things to happen in the field of communications and > education. Huge amounts of money have already been donated in this > regard, largely proving to be of little value by the time any of the aid > trickled down to the villages. This looks like an effort in which most > of the money spent will actually make it into the hand of the intended > recipients. > > As well, look at the countries ordering the project -- Brazil, Thailand, > Libya, Argentina. None of these are in the poorest parts of Africa, and > they already have computer literacy initiatives in place. > > Many developing countries look to India and want a piece of the IT > outsourcing pie. The OLPC is a good step in helping increasing basic > literacy and computer literacy. Some countries -- notably Brazil -- see > OLPC and related efforts as a way to make their countries more > self-sufficient in IT and not dependent on the US. > > So if the World Bank is willing to help this happen, that's fine with me. > > How about looking at what drives this lunacy. Big banks, the 'New World Disorder'. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash. The convenient scam inherent in conspiracy > theories is that reasonable efforts to disprove them are met with > accusations of being part of the conspiracy. > > As someone who has personally had to defend association-by-faith to the > targets of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, (and mutations of it > such as Henry Ford's accusation that Jewish bankers started world war 1) > I find such "revelations" to be worse than a waste of time. They are > truly destructive to real attempts at societal progress, a thinly-veiled > excuse for bigotry that is no better than racism or religious extremism. > > Anyone who tells you he has _the_ truth, surely doesn't. And bankers are > people too. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 20:04:47 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:04:47 +0000 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <456F2968.4080409-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1164909881.3931.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <456F2968.4080409@telly.org> Message-ID: On 11/30/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Yes I know a poor African boy/girl desperately need a laptop. How else can the carry water from the stream to their hut? > OLPC is not going to replace irrigation and low tech needs, but it > serves a very different purpose. Education and literacy improvement is a > very important component of lifting societies out of poverty, and > technology does have a role to play. For example: the introduction of > the cellphone, together with the concept of microcredits, have increased > revenue for rural African farmers by eliminating (often corrupt) > middlemen in finding buyers and conducting price negotiations. And part of what this is doing is to help *SOME* Africans. Sure, it may not be helping everyone, but if it helps in the establishment of some "liberal society" zones on the continent, that helps there to be more instances of "functioning civil societies," which is what is needful for things like "freedom" to be of much meaning. > Many developing countries look to India and want a piece of the IT > outsourcing pie. The OLPC is a good step in helping increasing basic > literacy and computer literacy. Some countries -- notably Brazil -- see > OLPC and related efforts as a way to make their countries more > self-sufficient in IT and not dependent on the US. Unless you're in the market of "empire building," this seems a pretty good thing. > So if the World Bank is willing to help this happen, that's fine with me. > > How about looking at what drives this lunacy. Big banks, the 'New World Disorder'. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash. The convenient scam inherent in conspiracy > theories is that reasonable efforts to disprove them are met with > accusations of being part of the conspiracy. Ah yes. "If you claim the conspiracy might not exist, that proves both: a) that you are part of the conspiracy, and b), by virtue of your involvement, that the conspiracy clearly exists." > Anyone who tells you he has _the_ truth, surely doesn't. And bankers are > people too. Did you misspell "banksters?" ;-) That seems to be the word that sort prefers to use. "Bankers" being the codeword that they use when they think they're more 'in public,' and want to malign a certain cultural group without actually using a word starting with the letter "J"... And with one of the banks I had the misfortune to do some work with back in yesteryear, I can't say I'm sure that the upper management actually were people. Whatever the cultural background they came from (varied), they all seemed to be trained to be complete asses... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 20:12:05 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:12:05 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux World Canada show ideas In-Reply-To: <1164821839.3144.17.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20061129165345.20078.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164821839.3144.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1164917525.3931.32.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Yes the show was diluted all right. What really bugged me was that Microsoft was even represented at all. I protested before the 2004 show but to no avail. Seems while I volunteer my time and hard earned money to the Linux cause the show promoter felt it necessary to include the monopoly of the century as if some how they weren't getting enough publicity as it is. RickT On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 12:37 -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > The show this year is being diluted. It's a combination of Security IT > world, Smalltalk world, network world, data storage world and finally > Linux World. This is why Net Direct will not likely exhibit there this > year. Since we probably won't we will have a 10' pop-up booth available > if you need one. It has a black velcro loop back, lights, etc and we > have a large L I N U X graphic that can go on it. Make any other graphic > you like and attach it with pins or velcro. > > They are trying to increase the number of IT decision makers attending. > > So what audience do you want to hit and with what message? > > Linux enthusiasts: Join TLUG? > IT Decision Makers: Use Linux, it's stable with low TCO? Send your staff > to TLUG? > Security People: Linux is secure? Use Linux security solutions? Come to > TLUG? > Network People: Use Linux firewalls, routers, etc? Come to TLUG? > Storage People: Use Linux? Come to TLUG? > Smalltalk people: Program in Linux? Come to TLUG? > -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 20:34:25 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:34:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <456F2968.4080409-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <456F2968.4080409@telly.org> Message-ID: <20061130203425.24097.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Yes I know a poor African boy/girl desperately > need a laptop. How else can the carry water from the > stream to their hut? > OLPC is not going to replace irrigation and low tech > needs, but it > serves a very different purpose. Education and > literacy improvement is a > very important component of lifting societies out of > poverty, and > technology does have a role to play. For example: > the introduction of > the cellphone, together with the concept of > microcredits, have increased > revenue for rural African farmers by eliminating > (often corrupt) > middlemen in finding buyers and conducting price > negotiations. > > Tiny cheap computers, on the own, will add little. > However, they will > enable OTHER things to happen in the field of > communications and > education. Huge amounts of money have already been > donated in this > regard, largely proving to be of little value by the > time any of the aid > trickled down to the villages. This looks like an > effort in which most > of the money spent will actually make it into the > hand of the intended > recipients. > > As well, look at the countries ordering the project > -- Brazil, Thailand, > Libya, Argentina. None of these are in the poorest > parts of Africa, and > they already have computer literacy initiatives in > place. Small correction here, Thailand, since the recent military coup has decided to drop out of the OLPC project. Here is the full list of nations who have expressed serious interest in the OLPC project: - Brazil - Egypt - United States (the states of Massachusetts and Maine) - Cambodia - Dominican Republic - Costa Rica - Tunisia - Argentina - Venezuela - Nigeria - Libya Note, none of the above are among the poorest of the poor. All can provide roofs and a passable diet for the average citizen. The point being these nations see better education as the tool to go from passable to a great standard of living. The OLPC project is seen a tool to help these nations become great. My personal hope is that the project becomes somewhat like the Carnegie Libraries (named after the Scottish-American businessman Andrew Carnegie (1835-1919) who felt his personal fortune was built on access to books as a boy, and wanted others to have the same chance). Andrew Carnegie paid for the construction of over 2,500 libraries around the world (of note, the old UofT library (that now contains the UofT bookstore at College & St. George) was built with Carnegie money). Carnegie Libraries came with strings attached, namely, any city/town that wanted a free library had to: - Show the need for a public library; - provide the building site - annually provide ten percent of the cost of the library's construction to support its operation. Now, we take public libraries for granted, it would be cool to think that, hopefully, with in a few years basically everyone world wide will take basic Internet access for granted (with the explosion of knowledge that will generate...). The OLPC set-up will hopefully follow in something like the Carnegie Library formula. Oh, and do note, Andrew Carnegie was seen as something of an SOB during his lifetime, having been a steel monopolist, and was at points ruthless in pursuit of his monopoly (some odd parallels here to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation that I will not get into here). > Many developing countries look to India and want a > piece of the IT > outsourcing pie. The OLPC is a good step in helping > increasing basic > literacy and computer literacy. Some countries -- > notably Brazil -- see > OLPC and related efforts as a way to make their > countries more > self-sufficient in IT and not dependent on the US. > > So if the World Bank is willing to help this happen, > that's fine with me. > > How about looking at what drives this lunacy. Big > banks, the 'New World Disorder'. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash. The convenient scam > inherent in conspiracy > theories is that reasonable efforts to disprove them > are met with > accusations of being part of the conspiracy. Know that, been there. Several years ago I was working for a local commercial ISP. I got to deal with an e-mail from a Florida neo-Nazi who was furious that one of our Toronto area clients was making fun of him in the Usenet newsgroups. Said neo-Nazi demanded that we terminate the account of local client. I wrote back noting that so long as our clients paid his/her bills and were not breaking Canadian law we just didn't care what they did. Needless to say I became a target of a few rants, sigh... One semi-amusing bit though was looking at said neo-Nazi's website, where he had a definition of what a white person was. Under close reading of the definition this guy had, I and everyone else of Scottish ancestry was not white. Given the company in question I would be happy to be considered non-white, though I am not sure what colour I ought to think of myself as (light blue maybe :-), well wait for it to get colder out and that may not be far from the truth :-) ), Colin McGregor > As someone who has personally had to defend > association-by-faith to the > targets of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, (and > mutations of it > such as Henry Ford's accusation that Jewish bankers > started world war 1) > I find such "revelations" to be worse than a waste > of time. They are > truly destructive to real attempts at societal > progress, a thinly-veiled > excuse for bigotry that is no better than racism or > religious extremism. > > Anyone who tells you he has _the_ truth, surely > doesn't. And bankers are > people too. > > - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 20:59:39 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:59:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <1164915688.3931.26.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1164915688.3931.26.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm tired of solving the worlds problems while our > own country goes to > hell. Solving third world dilemmas while a noble > cause does little to > help me find work in and around Toronto. The list > server is the Toronto > Linux Users Group. I don't tie religious > associations with my business. > I simply observe what I see. As for 'bankers being > people too' so are > lawyers but I digress. > RickT I trust you know the joke about how there are really nice, decent, reasonable lawyers, the problem being the 99.9% of lawyers who give the decent ones a bad name. Regarding the OLPC project, yes, there are is various bits of donated money that is helping the project along, but it should be pointed out that the bulk of the cash for this project is coming from the nations in question (i.e. Nigeria and its oil wealth). While yes, job hunting is a PAIN, the fact that a charity donates some $$ to this project doesn't seriously impact me one way or another. The technology used for this project is interesting, the goals pleasantly lofty, and the details entertaining (certainly a lot more entertaining than the latest movie actor/actress scandal). It is on the last point that I can live with the fact that in the end this project might cost me a few $ through taxes, I would see it as entertainment. If the project does achieve its goals (which might be a big if) then a richer/more intelligent world will be worth a few $. Colin McGregor > "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 21:12:28 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:12:28 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <547316.40043.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for $25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. Where is the $150 laptop now. Its a joke. Why does anyone need it???? I have a significant amount of exposure to developing countries which I won't go into now but let me say many of the people in non-war torn countries are quite content not to have a McDonalds at every third street corner. They value their way of life. Its business people who convince their politicians to buy into the North American tread mill way of life. RickT On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 15:59 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I'm tired of solving the worlds problems while our > > own country goes to > > hell. Solving third world dilemmas while a noble > > cause does little to > > help me find work in and around Toronto. The list > > server is the Toronto > > Linux Users Group. I don't tie religious > > associations with my business. > > I simply observe what I see. As for 'bankers being > > people too' so are > > lawyers but I digress. > > RickT > > I trust you know the joke about how there are really > nice, decent, reasonable lawyers, the problem being > the 99.9% of lawyers who give the decent ones a bad > name. > > Regarding the OLPC project, yes, there are is various > bits of donated money that is helping the project > along, but it should be pointed out that the bulk of > the cash for this project is coming from the nations > in question (i.e. Nigeria and its oil wealth). While > yes, job hunting is a PAIN, the fact that a charity > donates some $$ to this project doesn't seriously > impact me one way or another. The technology used for > this project is interesting, the goals pleasantly > lofty, and the details entertaining (certainly a lot > more entertaining than the latest movie actor/actress > scandal). It is on the last point that I can live with > the fact that in the end this project might cost me a > few $ through taxes, I would see it as entertainment. > If the project does achieve its goals (which might be > a big if) then a richer/more intelligent world will be > worth a few $. > > Colin McGregor > > > "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 21:25:01 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:25:01 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <1164921148.3931.42.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10611301325u52f1b1e7p3b0520e56fe12115@mail.gmail.com> n 11/30/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send > them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used > in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for > $25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. One of the very cool features of these OLPC devices is the wifi mesh capabilities, but they don't have much in the way of local storage - maybe a recycling program could provide some servers for local area storage/networking. Hey Colin... You should jumpstart a proposal to your gang down at Eastern Ave.! :-) -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build_it_yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 21:56:06 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:56:06 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <1164921148.3931.42.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <456F5376.3090800@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used > in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for $25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. Add the cost to pack and ship that large, heavy PC and bulky, fragile monitor (for which the original packaging almost certainly doesn't exist), and the price balloons pretty quickly. > many of the people in non-war torn countries are quite content not to have a McDonalds at every third street corner. They value their way of life. And yet ... there they are, buying Big Macs. Funny about the marketplace that way... if people truly didn't want the stuff they (supposedly) complain about, they wouldn't buy it and it would go away. So now Thais eat at KFC, and dozens of North York restaurants offer Tom Yum Soup. Get over it. > its business people who convince their politicians to buy into the North American tread mill way of life. > You mean, like convincing them that taking the rich world's castoff PCs is a better idea than computers designed specifically for their needs? The OLPC draws less than five watts per hour, a small fraction of what a conventional laptop requires (let alone a big PC and screen). It can thus be self-powered (the hand crank and foot pedal were rejected in favour of something resembling a salad spinner). Its power and network systems were designed for areas without much existing electrical or communucations infrastructure. And it can probably tolerate drops and spills better than your average laptop. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 21:58:30 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:58:30 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <1164921148.3931.42.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20061130215830.GA27009@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 04:12:28PM -0500, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send >them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used >in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for >$25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. Where is the $150 >laptop now. Its a joke. Why does anyone need it???? I have a significant Part of the issue is that $35 bundle requires 100+ watts of clean power of a type not necessarily distributed in the target countries, or indeed distributed at all. The OLPC uses 2 watts of power that can be generated locally in many different ways. As to who needs it, I think that it's not your call - government-level bureaucrats make that call, and many don't see the devices as "pedagogically sound", and so they are not participating. If you are going to get into a froth about every government or organization that does something you disagree with, you're going to get tired pretty fast. I think the device is neat, and interesting, and I want one for myself. I like the idea of being on a shared platform with millions more people and using a communications device to - wonder of wonders - increase communication. As a byproduct, I hope that it helps protect at-risk populations from being silenced because no one can hear them scream. It is a lot harder to ethnically cleanse a population when they are in constant communication with the international community. The wireless mesh networks can route around telco roadblocks very effectively. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 23:22:57 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:22:57 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <456F5376.3090800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <456F5376.3090800@telly.org> Message-ID: <1164928977.3931.52.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 16:56 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used > > in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for $25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. > Add the cost to pack and ship that large, heavy PC and bulky, fragile > monitor (for which the original packaging almost certainly doesn't > exist), and the price balloons pretty quickly. > Yet the PC's are still shipped overseas as we speak to be broken down into reusable scrap. > > many of the people in non-war torn countries are quite content not to have a McDonalds at every third street corner. They value their way of life. > And yet ... there they are, buying Big Macs. Some do many don't. > Funny about the marketplace > that way... if people truly didn't want the stuff they (supposedly) > complain about, they wouldn't buy it and it would go away. > > So now Thais eat at KFC, and dozens of North York restaurants offer Tom > um Soup. Get over it. Sorry I don't get up to North York. Its a stretch to compare Japanese, Chinese restaurants (food) to Arby's, McDonalds, Booger King... > > its business people who convince their politicians to buy into the North American tread mill way of life. > > > You mean, like convincing them that taking the rich world's castoff PCs > is a better idea than computers designed specifically for their needs? > So what you are advocating is we build (at our expense and expertise) a better machine for developing countries to use than what we have available for ourselves?? That makes a lot of sense. Maybe we can send them superior nuclear technology too. > The OLPC draws less than five watts per hour, a small fraction of what a > conventional laptop requires (let alone a big PC and screen). It can > thus be self-powered (the hand crank and foot pedal were rejected in > favour of something resembling a salad spinner). Its power and network > systems were designed for areas without much existing electrical or > communucations infrastructure. And it can probably tolerate drops and > spills better than your average laptop. > > - Evan > As I said earlier charity is a noble undertaking but we need to look after our countries needs. Charity begins at home. Peace and Love ;) RickT > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 23:30:44 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:30:44 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456F0DD9.4040906-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <456E660E.70900@utoronto.ca> <456F0DD9.4040906@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200611301830.47846.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 30 November 2006 11:59, Madison Kelly wrote: > I have no idea why, but it started working... I wish I could point > to why. This really doesn't endear me to PHP. Why are all the good > BBS forums written in PHP? *sigh*. You shouldn't confuse popular with good. phpBB is one of the most popular BBS forums out there but I know from personal experience helping hosting customers recover from hacked servers or defaced web sites, and from what a friend who provides tech support for another hosting company tells me, that it is also one of the more common ways that servers are hacked. As for your PHP to PostgreSQL connectivity issues, I've never had to compile PHP, Apache, or PostgreSQL from source to get the three of them working together. For example, I had tried PostgreSQL with Drupal some months ago. It was a simple matter of installing the RPMs and it Just Worked. However, I found the claim that Drupal supports PostgreSQL to be questionable. The core Drupal distribution supports PostgreSQL so no problem there but PostgreSQL support for many of the modules that are available for download from drupal.org is non-existent. I can't imagine using Drupal without add-on modules so to me, that means Drupal really doesn't support PostgreSQL. A module author apparently has to do different things to support different databases. Most don't bother. I don't know (or care) enough about Drupal's workings to explain why they chose this approach as opposed to the one taken by say, Django , where supporting MySQL or PostgreSQL is a matter of changing a couple of parameters in a configuration file. Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that Drupal and Django are the same thing but rather commenting on the different approaches taken to abstracting the underlying databases. Django uses an ORM (Object Relational Mapper) while Drupal uses PHP's various SQL functions to interact with the underlying database. I know PHP has various ways of abstracting the underlying database so that one can write portable code but I have no idea why that approach isn't used by Drupal. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 23:38:23 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:38:23 -0500 Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate In-Reply-To: <20061130215830.GA27009-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <547316.40043.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1164921148.3931.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20061130215830.GA27009@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1164929903.3931.60.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 16:58 -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 04:12:28PM -0500, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >North America has so many 'obsolete' computers it seems a waste to send > >them to China, etc. to be broken down for scrap when they could be used > >in developing countries. $150 laptop??? How about an obsolete PIII for > >$25.00 running Linux and a $10.00 obsolete monitor. Where is the $150 > >laptop now. Its a joke. Why does anyone need it???? I have a significant > > Part of the issue is that $35 bundle requires 100+ watts of clean power > of a type not necessarily distributed in the target countries, or indeed > distributed at all. The OLPC uses 2 watts of power that can be > generated locally in many different ways. > > As to who needs it, I think that it's not your call - government-level > bureaucrats make that call, and many don't see the devices as > "pedagogically sound", and so they are not participating. If you are > going to get into a froth about every government or organization that > does something you disagree with, you're going to get tired pretty fast. > I'm not anti $100 er $150....er $250....??? $350 laptop for developing countries. Education is important especially to stop disease, promote healthy lifestyles. It seems to me to be a strange debate. We're going to give 21st century technology to countries still in the 19th century?? > I think the device is neat, and interesting, and I want one for myself. > I like the idea of being on a shared platform with millions more people > and using a communications device to - wonder of wonders - increase > communication. I like gizmos too. > > As a byproduct, I hope that it helps protect at-risk populations from > being silenced because no one can hear them scream. It is a lot harder > to ethnically cleanse a population when they are in constant > communication with the international community. The wireless mesh > networks can route around telco roadblocks very effectively. When Hungary was invaded by the Russians the invasion was on short wave radio. The communications essentially changed 'nothing'. RickT -- "Replacing desktops one PC at a time" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 30 23:40:33 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:40:33 -0500 Subject: php and me don't get alone... help? In-Reply-To: <456F0D86.4010500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <456E506E.9000706@alteeve.com> <200611292307.42709.softquake@gmail.com> <456F0D86.4010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200611301840.33758.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 30 November 2006 11:57, Madison Kelly wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Is this why PHP/MySQL are so popular together? > > > > I gave up looong time ago and when I install apache (and php, mysql, > > postgres, etc) I do that by compiling from sources. It is really simple > > to do and you are free. I would never trust installing these things from > > rpm or another apt-get. > > > > zb. > > That's an unfortunate statement, but understandable. You'd think > something as popular as PHP would have support for a DB server like > PostgreSQL. Is there any public rationale for such poor support? I've > never had trouble with Perl + PostgreSQL/MySQL and can't fathom why PHP > would. Oh well... The meaning of my message was not that PHP does not offer postgres support, as it is obviously clear by now from this thread. I wanted to point out that using rpm's etc is seldom the best way of installing and configuring these beasts. Why? PHP offers a lot of optional libraries. I am personally used to play with many, just for fun or purpose. And it is highly unlikely to find an rpm that would allow me to use just these libraries that I need. Besides, things change from distribution to distribution, from one php release version to another. Hence, I become independent of rpm's to avoid problems and confusion. I keep notes about every new installation of apache (with PHP, etc) I do and, believe me or not, after a few tens of times at least i did installation, I do not need to use these notes much ;) But after already making installation once, properly, one knows how to compile all this stuff and not worry about finding a proper rpm. zb. > Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists