From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 02:15:47 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:15:47 -0700 Subject: EM64T and linux In-Reply-To: <4452EEC2.5000507-WxfNDWQh5LNIo2TaICnI/Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4452A65C.7000500@lansystems.ca> <052217A9-0961-4563-944A-AA47183E8E11@visibleassets.com> <4452EEC2.5000507@lansystems.ca> Message-ID: On 4/28/06, Vince Hillier wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > > On 28-Apr-06, at 7:33 PM, Vince Hillier wrote: > > > >> Christopher Browne wrote: > >> > >>> On 4/28/06, Phillip Qin wrote: > >>> > >>>> But all the servers Dell offers use the EM64T. I have no choice. > >>>> The port > >>>> does say "The port consists of kernels for all AMD 64bit CPUs with > >>>> AMD64 > >>>> extension and all Intel CPUs with EM64T extension, and a common 64bit > >>>> userspace.". > >>> > >>> > >>> Well, then, that strikes me as an excellent reason to NOT buy > >>> servers from Dell. > >> > >> > >> > >> That's pretty black and white no? The 64 bit processors run 32 bit > >> code fine. > >> > >>> > >>> We stopped doing it a while back because they were severely > >>> underperforming. > >> > >> > >> I'd like to see "serverly" defined, as they're not that bad. > > > > Dell servers are what they are, they don't perform well for > > postgresql. This is a well known fact. The reason is because their > > disk I/O is very poor. Disk I/O affects all applications. > > > > For the same money you can get much better hardware. But it's your > > money Chris is giving you the benefit of the experience of a company > > that uses a lot of servers. You can choose to accept this charity or > > not... > > > Phillip is looking for a web server, not a postgres server. I've yet to > see a site that would degrade a dell due to I/O issues. Your frontends > should be doing minimal seeking, if they aren't, you need a new system > architect. Well, the Dell servers I have had the misfortune of using have suffered pretty badly in multiple ways: a) I/O bandwidth seems poorer than the hardware ought to be able to support. It looks as though the Dell thing of "buying what's cheapest this week" has some negative effects. That's something to worry about for any application that could be bottlenecked by I/O. b) Intel memory bandwidth seems to have headed back to "sucking incredibly" over the last couple of years. The thing I observed was that large chunks of memory accessed via PAE essentially meant that the most memory you could *effectively* put on a box was about 2GB, even if you had 8GB of chips there. PAE is effectively a leap back to the days of bank switching, which was how I used to connect 256K of memory to a 6502 that only really supported 64K. Unfortunately, performance suffers multiply. Firstly, you were limited to 2GB process memory, so you had to find multiple processes using Lotso Memory to get any use of 8GB of memory. Secondly, DMA doesn't wind up working properly in contexts where you're bank switching. I/O winds up stuck in the lowest 2GB of the machine's memory... This has *hideous* effects on performance which winds up affecting both I/O and memory usage. c) The Intel EM64T looks to be a PAE-ish bag on the side of a Xeon. No option of 64 bit device access; it's all just a mapping onto 32 bit stuff. I haven't had any EM64T boxes inflicted on me; all I know there is hearsay. In any case, all of this sucks, really quite badly. If you DON'T CARE about system performance, and are prepared to pay pretty big money for hardware that *won't* bear up if it sees load, then, while there's no accounting for taste, feel free to do so. Feel free to run Windows 2003 and IIS if you like, as well. > Backends are a whole different discussion. A web server is indeed the back end for web activities. > Advice much appreciated... Charity? Move along... move along. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 03:50:45 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 00:50:45 -0300 (ADT) Subject: Presenting at CEOS In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0604291225x27773e8ds19e37f0c53c124f7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0604291225x27773e8ds19e37f0c53c124f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Come on you guys. It's not that far. I'll be driving in either direction almost every weekend (starting last weekend, actually) and for the next month or two. Flying is unbearably boring for me. But seriously, if you guys come over (car pool or plane pool or whatever), I'll give you a tour around the area :O) BTW, we're planning an InstallFest intermixed with GeekBeer (a CS society weekly event) on Friday evening (June 2nd). Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 4/29/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 4/29/06, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > > > It seems that the submission process sounded too complex. > > > > The only thing I regarded as a particular "complexity" in it is the > > set of logistics involved in being in Halifax on June 1/2. My spring > > is looking sufficiently complex already as to rule that out :-(. > > Same boat here. I nearly sent a request (and some info) in - then > realized JIT that the conference was in Nova Scotia. I'd love to > visit Eastern Canada, especially on OSS business. Maybe next year. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > psema4.gotdns.com > > "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, > stand like a rock." > > - Thomas Jefferson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 12:05:56 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 08:05:56 -0400 Subject: Presenting at CEOS In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0604291225x27773e8ds19e37f0c53c124f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605010505o4149d92bpfe32963f7c177a66@mail.gmail.com> On 4/30/06, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > Come on you guys. It's not that far. For someone who does not drive, like myself, it might as well be in Europe. What meager resources I do have are currently tied up in into launching a small, foss-friendly, software house (without VC, loans, or other outside investment) and an initial project - plane tickets and hotel rooms are currently a luxury. Driving I may not be able to do anything about, due to some medical challenges I'm facing. However, I certainly do have every intention of making flights a bit more feasible within the next year or so; what good's the business otherwise? ;-) I would love to go, just probably won't make it this year. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 12:12:11 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 08:12:11 -0400 Subject: The Stallman signature tax In-Reply-To: <4455383C.6080701-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4455383C.6080701@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605010512h3cdcd92bmb04c1cbe873b8a63@mail.gmail.com> On 4/30/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > "I decline to support the newly formed gratis autograph movement" - RMS > > http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/28/1648203 I dunno if I'd pay $10 for an Authentic Stallman Signature. Maybe since the money goes to the FSF - but based on the article it doesn't sound like something he particularly enjoys doing. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 15:00:26 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 11:00:26 -0400 Subject: VNC fails to start In-Reply-To: References: <1146062400.444f8640aa728@webmail.uoguelph.ca> <1146146184.20486.3.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <1146146791.4450cfe7ac26a@webmail.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: Jason Spiro wrote: > On 4/27/06, wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Thanks for the advice, but it turned out to be a misconfigured router; >> two >> machines with the same IP...dumb. > > Hmmm... if I recall correctly, I once saw a Windows XP machine in my > old school library show a strange balloon notification. it had the > same IP as another machine, and it had automatically switched its IP > to 169.254.something.somethingelse (which IIRC is in the unconfigured > IP address space). > > Now you've made me curious about a few things: :-) > > 1. does Windows always notice all IP collisions, or only sometimes? > > 2. can the Linux networking stack automatically notice collisions too > and pop up a dialog box notification via DBUS? > > 3. can cheap home routers bought at Future Shop notice > statically-configured-machine IP address collisions as well and > display a warning on the web interface's Status screen? > > Cheers, > Jason I'm not really skilled enough to answer your questions, but I can provide some info to maybe help you answer them. The Windows XP machine was configured to use DHCP while the Linux one was recently configured to have static IP and I just so happened to give it the same IP dhcp gave the Windows box. For the record, none of the Linux, Windows, or the D-Link router gave any indication of a duplicate IP. A simple reboot on the Windows box or a new IP on the Linux machine should have resolved the problem. Anyway, colour me ignorant on this one; lesson learned. Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 15:11:39 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 11:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Stallman signature tax In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605010512h3cdcd92bmb04c1cbe873b8a63-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605010512h3cdcd92bmb04c1cbe873b8a63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060501151139.68116.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 4/30/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > "I decline to support the newly formed gratis > autograph movement" - RMS > > > > > http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/28/1648203 > > I dunno if I'd pay $10 for an Authentic Stallman > Signature. Maybe > since the money goes to the FSF - but based on the > article it doesn't > sound like something he particularly enjoys doing. Well, back in 1989 I saw Stallman give a talk in Boston, MA, and I felt the man had missed his true calling, Old Testament prophet. There was Stallman's way and there was total @#$% EVIL. No gray scale for that guy... As for celebraties and charges for autographs, well let me offer two odd examples. Towards the end of his life science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein demanded that anyone wanting his autograph first show proof that they had recently donated blood or show a letter from their doctor stating the person in question had a medical condition that prevented them from donating blood... Robert A. Heinlein is the reason a few science fiction conventions run blood donor clinics. If you ask science fiction autor Harlan Ellison to autograph a copy of his novel "Doomsman" he will pay you ... after he has torn the book up. Normally Harlan Ellison's books range from good to excellent, but "Doomsman" (which yes, I have 2 copies of and have read), one of his earliest works, STINKS, and if I were him I would want all copies destroyed :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 16:27:49 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it Message-ID: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Hi all, I know that I can format a 'vfat' partition up to 32GB in linux and MS Win2k will be able to read/write it. In Linux, I can create a vfat partition quite large (ie: a the full 250GB of my drive) but win2k says it's not formatted. I tried to format it under win2k but of course it dies (at the end of a full format) saying that the partition is too big. So, has anyone found a way to format a 'vfat' partition larger than 32GB in Linux in a way that will let MS use it? I know this is probably a long shot... Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 16:50:02 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:50:02 -0400 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <000601c66d3f$4ad88970$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Format it as fat32 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Sent: May 1, 2006 12:28 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it > > Hi all, > > I know that I can format a 'vfat' partition up to 32GB in linux and MS > Win2k will be able to read/write it. In Linux, I can create a vfat > partition quite large (ie: a the full 250GB of my drive) but win2k says > it's not formatted. I tried to format it under win2k but of course it > dies (at the end of a full format) saying that the partition is too big. > > So, has anyone found a way to format a 'vfat' partition larger than 32GB > in Linux in a way that will let MS use it? I know this is probably a > long shot... > > Thanks! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 17:04:18 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:04:18 -0400 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <000701c66d41$48c48ba0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> You can also format it using other tools. http://www.mager.org/mkdosfs/ http://www.ranish.com/part/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Sent: May 1, 2006 12:28 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it > > Hi all, > > I know that I can format a 'vfat' partition up to 32GB in linux and MS > Win2k will be able to read/write it. In Linux, I can create a vfat > partition quite large (ie: a the full 250GB of my drive) but win2k says > it's not formatted. I tried to format it under win2k but of course it > dies (at the end of a full format) saying that the partition is too big. > > So, has anyone found a way to format a 'vfat' partition larger than 32GB > in Linux in a way that will let MS use it? I know this is probably a > long shot... > > Thanks! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 20:19:16 2006 From: shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: EM64T and linux In-Reply-To: <2C66DD9A-8784-4045-8C2F-8B04955C5B6C-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <2C66DD9A-8784-4045-8C2F-8B04955C5B6C@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <200605011619.16450.shrike@heinous.org> On Friday 28 April 2006 16:57, Andrew Hammond wrote: > HP sells a solid quad Opteron box, and if you don't require quad, the > list grows from there. But, as I said before, if you don't _need_ 64 > bit, why bother? > I have some personal reservations about some of the Quad AMD HP servers. If you are evaluating servers, I'd be happy to comment offline or in person. I have seen far less problem with the IBM AMD based systems. -Joseph- > Since you haven't said anything about what you plan to do with this > box, it'd be silly to comment further. > > __________________________________________________ > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > DBA, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > > On 28-Apr-06, at 15:53, Phillip Qin wrote: > > But all the servers Dell offers use the EM64T. I have no choice. > > The port does say ?The port consists of kernels for all AMD 64bit > > CPUs with AMD64 extension and all Intel CPUs with EM64T extension, > > and a common 64bit userspace.?. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > > Andrew Hammond > > Sent: April 28, 2006 3:38 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: EM64T and linux > > > > On 28-Apr-06, at 13:35, Phillip Qin wrote: > >> It says "compilation time optimization uses a common base for > >> AMD64/EM64T instead of legacy i386 cruft" but doesn't mention > >> anything else about the EM64T. I am not familiar with the new 64- > >> bit technology but I will give it a try. > > > > In a hacking environment, cool. But for production, if you don't > > _need_ 64 bit, why deal with the headaches? > > > > > > > > If you do need 64 bit, don't buy a Xeon to run it on. > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > > Christopher Browne > > Sent: April 28, 2006 1:27 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: EM64T and linux > > > > On 4/28/06, Phillip Qin wrote: > > > I know I shall post it to debian's user list. But does anyone > > > > know whether > > > > > Debian 3.0 woody supports Intel EM64T architecture? I am trying > > > > to order a > > > > > server. But Dell only ships Xeon with EM64T architecture. > > > > Do you want to run it as a 32 bit system? Or 64 bit? > > > > If you run in 32 bit mode, then it shouldn't present any particularly > > special problems. > > > > It may be more interesting in 64 bit mode, as Debian/AMD-64 has been > > released recently... > > > > http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/ > > -- > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > !DSPAM:4452508b61882855512685! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 15:49:41 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:49:41 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20060501154941.6567dc50@mail.look.ca> At 12:27 PM 2006/05/01 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >Hi all, > > I know that I can format a 'vfat' partition up to 32GB in linux and MS >Win2k will be able to read/write it. In Linux, I can create a vfat >partition quite large (ie: a the full 250GB of my drive) but win2k says >it's not formatted. I tried to format it under win2k but of course it >dies (at the end of a full format) saying that the partition is too big. > > So, has anyone found a way to format a 'vfat' partition larger than 32GB >in Linux in a way that will let MS use it? I know this is probably a >long shot... > >Thanks! > >Madison I used Partition Magic 5 to create a VFAT/FAT32 64 GB partition which Windows 95 can read and write. Is this information of any use to you ? James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 20:50:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 16:50:23 -0400 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <000601c66d3f$4ad88970$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <000601c66d3f$4ad88970$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20060501205023.GE5287@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 12:50:02PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Format it as fat32 FAT16 can't go past 4GB (on NT) or 2GB (on Win9x). So it would be FAT32. I don't remember if Win2k got support for larger FAT32 in a service pack, or if it simply doesn't support it. XP should support it, but still can't format them itself (for stupid reasons only microsoft can explain). Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 22:06:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 18:06:13 -0400 Subject: The Stallman signature tax In-Reply-To: <4455383C.6080701-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4455383C.6080701@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990605011506q36823e50u8f11d955fb8b98ff@mail.gmail.com> On 4/30/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > "I decline to support the newly formed gratis autograph movement" - RMS > > http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/28/1648203 Funny how he takes personal attacks as being FSF attacks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon May 1 23:39:53 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 19:39:53 -0400 Subject: EM64T and linux In-Reply-To: <200605011619.16450.shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org> References: <2C66DD9A-8784-4045-8C2F-8B04955C5B6C@ca.afilias.info> <200605011619.16450.shrike@heinous.org> Message-ID: <44569C49.8020702@georgetown.wehave.net> Joseph Kubik wrote: > On Friday 28 April 2006 16:57, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>HP sells a solid quad Opteron box, and if you don't require quad, the >>list grows from there. But, as I said before, if you don't _need_ 64 >>bit, why bother? >> > > > I have some personal reservations about some of the Quad AMD HP servers. If > you are evaluating servers, I'd be happy to comment offline or in person. > > I have seen far less problem with the IBM AMD based systems. Interesting. We have a number of HP DL 585s, the only issue I recall was kernel oopses when running 32bit code on 64bit SLES 9 - SuSE has patched that race condition in the meantime and the machines are very solid now. We haven't considered IBM's AMD boxes much (nor would I my experiences with their Xeons), do they have quad opteron? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 02:07:07 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:07:07 -0400 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <20060501205023.GE5287-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <000601c66d3f$4ad88970$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20060501205023.GE5287@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200605012207.07769.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Monday 01 May 2006 16:50, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 12:50:02PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Format it as fat32 > > FAT16 can't go past 4GB (on NT) or 2GB (on Win9x). So it would be FAT32. > > I don't remember if Win2k got support for larger FAT32 in a service > pack, or if it simply doesn't support it. XP should support it, but > still can't format them itself (for stupid reasons only microsoft can > explain). > You could try the gparted live cd. http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gparted/gparted-livecd-0.2.4-3.iso It works extremely well. I have used it for that very same purpose on occasion. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 Earn your service for FREE! Ask about our referral program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 02:21:02 2006 From: slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: 02 May 2006 04:21:02 +0200 Subject: Format vfat in Linux so Win2k can read it In-Reply-To: <20060501205023.GE5287-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <16927.66.135.96.43.1146500869.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <000601c66d3f$4ad88970$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20060501205023.GE5287@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <85fyjt6ub5.fsf@wanadoo.fr> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 12:50:02PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Format it as fat32 > > FAT16 can't go past 4GB (on NT) or 2GB (on Win9x). So it would be FAT32. > > I don't remember if Win2k got support for larger FAT32 in a service > pack, or if it simply doesn't support it. XP should support it, but > still can't format them itself (for stupid reasons only microsoft can > explain). > Irregardless of the preference to do everything under Linux, setting up 'foreign' partitions/formats is still best done using tools specific to the target file system In this case Windows There is a tool which does this job admirably on Windows XP for me, and it will work on other Windows flavours too. I have managed to get the drive partitioned and slack-current plus freeBSD installed along with XP using the OEM Windows which reformats the whole drive leaving no free space using this tool It is called Partition Commander and I believe a trial version can be obtained which would allow you to get the job done initially As a word of advice when installing PartComm; say NO to the offer to install System Commander or you will end up with a proprietary boot loader Unfortunately I can't give you a step by step because my brand new lappy is currently out for repairs having started falling apart physically from Day One in addition to a totally unacceptable time drift, a 16*10 aspect CRT and working almost as slowly as this Pentium 25mhz with a 200mb hard drive and 8mb ram and which despite its age has never given a minutes trouble apart from its obvious limitations. ;) Good Luck -- Slack Rat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 05:06:21 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:06:21 +0800 Subject: OT: Credit and Accounting system Message-ID: <200605021306.21272.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Does anyone knows of a open-source application that will run on linux that can do credit and accounting system? typical situation is the VOIP, someone will buy a pre-paid card that a user can exhaust... lets say $5 is 30 minutes airtime.. thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 12:42:13 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 08:42:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Credit and Accounting system In-Reply-To: <200605021306.21272.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605021306.21272.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200605020842.13277.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Tuesday 02 May 2006 01:06, JM wrote: > Does anyone knows of a open-source application that will run on linux that > can do credit and accounting system? > > typical situation is the VOIP, someone will buy a pre-paid card that a user > can exhaust... lets say $5 is 30 minutes airtime.. > > thanks, These might be of use to you: AstBill-Asterisk Billing and Management http://sourceforge.net/projects/astbill AsmodeuS Billing System http://sourceforge.net/projects/abills English installation instructions here: http://abills.asmodeus.com.ua/wiki/doku.php?id=abills:docs_03:install:en I was looking at IBSng. They were GPL but seem to have gone closed source/retail after they reached v1.0. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 Earn your service for FREE! Ask about our referral program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 13:41:18 2006 From: papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 09:41:18 -0400 Subject: Tape Backup Message-ID: <4457617E.5090305@equitabletrust.com> Where would I find the logs if errors happened and a tape backup didn't occur? What system log would I look at? etc? Thank you, -- Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 13:59:30 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 09:59:30 -0400 Subject: Tape Backup Message-ID: Which program do you use? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul Apking Sent: May 2, 2006 9:41 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Tape Backup Where would I find the logs if errors happened and a tape backup didn't occur? What system log would I look at? etc? Thank you, -- Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:44576196121709865613037! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 14:06:34 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 10:06:34 -0400 Subject: EM64T and linux Message-ID: Every one has its preference in choosing hardware and o/s. I like to deal with the known devil. Because I ordered 2-CPU Xeon, I have no choice but accept this 64-bit architecture. Because AMD64 is still in unstable, I will only install Debian 3.1 Sarge i386 on the new server. It is a politically safe decision. Boss won't care much about the benchmark. Tell you guys the truth. This aging Dell server has been running Linux since 1999. When all other Windows NT servers experience hardware crashes during the past two month, it still stands there. PQ -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Fraser Campbell Sent: May 1, 2006 7:40 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: EM64T and linux Joseph Kubik wrote: > On Friday 28 April 2006 16:57, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>HP sells a solid quad Opteron box, and if you don't require quad, the >>list grows from there. But, as I said before, if you don't _need_ 64 >>bit, why bother? >> > > > I have some personal reservations about some of the Quad AMD HP servers. If > you are evaluating servers, I'd be happy to comment offline or in person. > > I have seen far less problem with the IBM AMD based systems. Interesting. We have a number of HP DL 585s, the only issue I recall was kernel oopses when running 32bit code on 64bit SLES 9 - SuSE has patched that race condition in the meantime and the machines are very solid now. We haven't considered IBM's AMD boxes much (nor would I my experiences with their Xeons), do they have quad opteron? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:44569c58188312682022282! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 14:07:36 2006 From: papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 10:07:36 -0400 Subject: Tape Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <445767A8.4080708@equitabletrust.com> I just use the tar command to backup to tape. Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 Phillip Qin wrote: > > Which program do you use? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul > Apking > Sent: May 2, 2006 9:41 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Tape Backup > > Where would I find the logs if errors happened and a tape backup didn't > occur? What system log would I look at? etc? > > Thank you, > > -- > Regards, > > Paul Apking > > Network Administrator > The Equitable Trust Company > 30 St. Clair St. West > Toronto, Ont. > M4V 3A1 > Ph: 416-515-2299 > Mobile: 416-624-6079 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > !DSPAM:44576196121709865613037! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 14:13:05 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 10:13:05 -0400 Subject: Tape Backup Message-ID: Syslog might give you some trace but I usually time and log my backup using /usr/bin/time -f "backup took %E" -a -o $vLog \ /bin/tar --create --gzip --totals --exclude-from=$vIgnore --file=/dev/st0 / >> $vLog 2>&1 Thus I always have my own log. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul Apking Sent: May 2, 2006 10:08 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Tape Backup I just use the tar command to backup to tape. Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 Phillip Qin wrote: > > Which program do you use? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul > Apking > Sent: May 2, 2006 9:41 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Tape Backup > > Where would I find the logs if errors happened and a tape backup didn't > occur? What system log would I look at? etc? > > Thank you, > > -- > Regards, > > Paul Apking > > Network Administrator > The Equitable Trust Company > 30 St. Clair St. West > Toronto, Ont. > M4V 3A1 > Ph: 416-515-2299 > Mobile: 416-624-6079 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:445767ba133511530698399! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 16:12:55 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 12:12:55 -0400 Subject: OT: ebay.ca Message-ID: <000001c66e03$47e07f10$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Apologies for the severely off topic post.. Has anyone else noticed that ebay.ca is currently parked at godaddy? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 16:20:03 2006 From: dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 12:20:03 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> Just thought this might interest some people out there who are looking to get their hands on the best AMD64 hardware. I recently had a chance to put 3 AMD64 computers on a Gigabit LAN and do some tests. The 3 were as follows: 1. Tyan Tiger K8W with twin Opteron 246 CPUs - on board PCI Intel 82541 2. ASUS A8N-SLI-Premium with an Athlon64X2 4800+ - on board Marvel Yukon 3. IBM eServer 326m with single Opteron 246 - on board Broadcom NetXtremeII All 3 had 2Gigs of DDR400 RAM I ran iperf tests in all directions between these 3 systems, for 10 minutes running, like this iperf -c -r -t 600 No matter which machines I paired up, they all seemed to push the data at the same rate. Here are the sustained 10 minute data rates they were able to support: 1. Tyan: 715megabit to either of the other two systems 2. ASUS: 605megabit to either of the other two systems 3. IBM: 535megabit to either of the other two systems This is a very one-off comparison, but I ran these over and over at least. It looks like Tyan makes some good stuff, and IBM has yet to tweak the performance of their new 326m 1U pizza box. Interestingly, the Tyan NIC was PCI, but the other two were PCI-X Anyway, food for thought. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 17:01:42 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:01:42 -0400 Subject: OT: ebay.ca In-Reply-To: <000001c66e03$47e07f10$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c66e03$47e07f10$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605021001u484ce80aqa684951953619b68@mail.gmail.com> Ummmm... odysseus:~ aaron$ whois ebay.ca Status: EXIST Registrar: Tucows.com Co. Registrar-no: 156 Registrant-no: 48183 Domaine-no: 48183 Subdomain: ebay.ca Renewal-Date: 2011/10/15 Date-Approved: 2000/10/27 Date-Modified: 2004/11/03 Organization: ebay(TM), ebay Canada Limited Description: A provincially incorporated company that operates a person-to-person online trading community. Canadian agents located in: St. John New Brunswick (506) 632-1970 and Admin-Name: Ryan Quick Admin-Title: Admin-Postal: eBay Canada Ltd. 2 St. Clair Avenue Suite 701 Toronto ON M4T 2T5 Canada Admin-Phone: +1.4169692290 Admin-Fax: +1.4169611970 Admin-Mailbox: hostmaster-ZuctOmHWJ9c at public.gmane.org Tech-Name: Host Master Tech-Title: Tech-Postal: eBay Inc. 2145 Hamilton Avenue San Jose CA 95125 United States Tech-Phone: 408 376-7400 Tech-Fax: 408 376-7514 Tech-Mailbox: hostmaster-ZuctOmHWJ9c at public.gmane.org NS1-Hostname: sjc-dns1.ebaydns.com NS1-Netaddress: 66.135.207.137 NS2-Hostname: smf-dns1.ebay.dns.com NS2-Netaddress: 66.135.223.137 NS3-Hostname: sjc-dns2.ebaydns.com NS3-Netaddress: 66.135.207.138 NS4-Hostname: smf-dns2.ebaydns.com NS4-Netaddress: 66.135.215.5 NS5-Hostname: NS5-Netaddress: NS6-Hostname: NS6-Netaddress: On 5/2/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > > Apologies for the severely off topic post.. > > > > Has anyone else noticed that ebay.ca is currently parked at godaddy? > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 17:08:00 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:08:00 -0400 Subject: OT: ebay.ca In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605021001u484ce80aqa684951953619b68-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605021001u484ce80aqa684951953619b68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c66e0a$f8337cd0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Its back now.. Jeez I feel like Big Bird trying to explain snuffy.. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh > Sent: May 2, 2006 1:02 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: ebay.ca > > Ummmm... > > > odysseus:~ aaron$ whois ebay.ca > Status: EXIST > Registrar: Tucows.com Co. > Registrar-no: 156 > Registrant-no: 48183 > Domaine-no: 48183 > Subdomain: ebay.ca > Renewal-Date: 2011/10/15 > Date-Approved: 2000/10/27 > Date-Modified: 2004/11/03 > Organization: ebay(TM), ebay Canada Limited > Description: A provincially incorporated company that operates a > person-to-person online trading community. Canadian > agents located in: St. John New Brunswick > (506) 632-1970 and > Admin-Name: Ryan Quick > Admin-Title: > Admin-Postal: eBay Canada Ltd. > 2 St. Clair Avenue Suite 701 > Toronto ON M4T 2T5 Canada > Admin-Phone: +1.4169692290 > Admin-Fax: +1.4169611970 > Admin-Mailbox: hostmaster-ZuctOmHWJ9c at public.gmane.org > Tech-Name: Host Master > Tech-Title: > Tech-Postal: eBay Inc. > 2145 Hamilton Avenue > San Jose CA 95125 United States > Tech-Phone: 408 376-7400 > Tech-Fax: 408 376-7514 > Tech-Mailbox: hostmaster-ZuctOmHWJ9c at public.gmane.org > NS1-Hostname: sjc-dns1.ebaydns.com > NS1-Netaddress: 66.135.207.137 > NS2-Hostname: smf-dns1.ebay.dns.com > NS2-Netaddress: 66.135.223.137 > NS3-Hostname: sjc-dns2.ebaydns.com > NS3-Netaddress: 66.135.207.138 > NS4-Hostname: smf-dns2.ebaydns.com > NS4-Netaddress: 66.135.215.5 > NS5-Hostname: > NS5-Netaddress: > NS6-Hostname: > NS6-Netaddress: > > > On 5/2/06, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > > > > > > Apologies for the severely off topic post.. > > > > > > > > Has anyone else noticed that ebay.ca is currently parked at godaddy? > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 17:53:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:53:28 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: <445786B3.9040402-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060502175328.GA24459@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 12:20:03PM -0400, Dave Stubbs wrote: > Interestingly, the Tyan NIC was PCI, but the other two were PCI-X Isn't the NIC on the tyan part of the amd 8111 chipset and hence internal to the system and while maybe presented as pci, probably is at least running 66mhz if not faster PCI internally? Some newer systems probably use PCIe for the onboard network chip. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 18:42:32 2006 From: dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 14:42:32 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: <20060502175328.GA24459-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> <20060502175328.GA24459@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4457A818.7050508@utoronto.ca> With lspci, the NIC shows up as: Intel Corporation 82541GI/PI Gigabit Ethernet Controller There are a lot of 8111 devices, but this one doesn't seem to be part of that. Quite possible that it is PCIe though, although none of the slots on this board are. Dave... Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 12:20:03PM -0400, Dave Stubbs wrote: > >> Interestingly, the Tyan NIC was PCI, but the other two were PCI-X >> > > Isn't the NIC on the tyan part of the amd 8111 chipset and hence > internal to the system and while maybe presented as pci, probably is at > least running 66mhz if not faster PCI internally? Some newer systems > probably use PCIe for the onboard network chip. > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > !DSPAM:44579cc0299871804284693! > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 20:57:18 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:57:18 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: <445786B3.9040402-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/2/06, Dave Stubbs wrote: > Just thought this might interest some people out there who are looking > to get their hands on the best AMD64 hardware. > > I recently had a chance to put 3 AMD64 computers on a Gigabit LAN and do > some tests. The 3 were as follows: > > 1. Tyan Tiger K8W with twin Opteron 246 CPUs - on board PCI Intel 82541 > 2. ASUS A8N-SLI-Premium with an Athlon64X2 4800+ - on board Marvel Yukon > 3. IBM eServer 326m with single Opteron 246 - on board Broadcom NetXtremeII > > All 3 had 2Gigs of DDR400 RAM > > I ran iperf tests in all directions between these 3 systems, for 10 > minutes running, like this > > iperf -c -r -t 600 > > No matter which machines I paired up, they all seemed to push the data > at the same rate. > > Here are the sustained 10 minute data rates they were able to support: > > 1. Tyan: 715megabit to either of the other two systems > 2. ASUS: 605megabit to either of the other two systems > 3. IBM: 535megabit to either of the other two systems > > This is a very one-off comparison, but I ran these over and over at least. > > It looks like Tyan makes some good stuff, and IBM has yet to tweak the > performance of their new 326m 1U pizza box. > I use to sell these boxes. Comparing that ASUS to that Tyan is not really a fair comparison. The Tyan listed is a Workstation class board and the ASUS is a highend Desktop. BTW unless something has changed in the last 4 months Tyan's customer support, firmware and troubleshooting has gone way down hill over the last 18 months. If you want a really good AMD motherboard you need to look at the SuperMicro A+ line. http://www.supermicro.com/aplus/ The Broadcom ServerWorks Chipset versions for AMD is very good. I'm a little surprised that the intel gigE did that much better than the Marvel Yukon. It could be that Tyan has it on a PCIe or PCI-X bus and not PCI 32. I wouldn't be surprised if ASUS used a 32 bit bus for their gigE because it is only Desktop Chipset. As I said it isn't a fair comparison. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 21:59:54 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:59:54 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1146607194.10841.1.camel@neo> So I'd gather there will be no regular meeting @ Galbraith building? p. ? ???, 26/04/2006 ? 03:40 -0400, Robert Brockway ?????: > Is anyone going to this on May 2: > > http://linux.meetup.com/22/events/4892870/?a=cn1_cn2&gj=ej3 > > Rob > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 21:59:54 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:59:54 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1146607194.10846.0.camel@neo> So I'd gather there will be no regular meeting @ Galbraith building? p. ? ???, 26/04/2006 ? 03:40 -0400, Robert Brockway ?????: > Is anyone going to this on May 2: > > http://linux.meetup.com/22/events/4892870/?a=cn1_cn2&gj=ej3 > > Rob > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 2 23:39:29 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 19:39:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] 2 IBM xSeries 345 servers for sale, loaded. Message-ID: Greetings all, I'm planning on moving soon, so I need to shed some gear - I want less rackmount gear at my place. ;) Anyhow. I've got two IBM xSeries 345s (Cisco branded, I'll explain below) up for grabs. They're fully Linux-friendly, to the point where VMware ESX Server can even read their serial numbers as it boots up. Pictures are available at http://www.umbravia.org/ce.html 1x Cisco CE-7305-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $900 * One 2.4GHz HT Xeon, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 * 2GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs ( 4x 512MB) * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive 1x Cisco CE-7325-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $1500 * Two 2.4GHz HT Xeons, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 * 4GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs (4x 1GB) * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive These are 2U IBM servers, but sold by Cisco as Content Engines. (And prices marked up accordingly.) The only difference is that they're designed to boot off a built-in CF slot, and have a green Cisco bezel on the front. They have been flashed with latest IBM BIOS and IPMI code. Servers have been used about six months on and off. All original IBM parts. Green Cisco bezel on front. They do NOT come with hard disks, or disk trays. However, I do have a Fujitsu 73GB/10k RPM U320 SCSI disk up for grabs for $150, that works fine in 'em, if there's a need for one. I'm flexible on the pricing, make me a reasonable offer. (Although I'll note that as stand-alone IBM parts, they're worth more than their sums.) They're available for pickup from downtown Toronto. More detailed specs: Back of server: * 2x Intel PRO/1000 MT GbE ports * 1x VHDCI SCSI U160 connector * 2x PCI-X/100MHz Low-Profile slots (1 is ZCR-capable with an IBM ServeRAID 6i+, sold separately ;) ) * 2x PCI-X/133MHz Full-Profile/Full-Length slots * 1x PCI Full-Profile/Half-Length slot * 2x USB 1.1 ports in the back Front of server: * 1x 24x Slim CD-ROM drive * 1x USB 1.1 port in the front * 6x U320 SCSI hot-swap drive bays, accept IBM trays Misc: * 2x Hot-swap 350W PSUs * 1x 128MB SanDisk Industrial Grade CF (Cisco approved) * 1x Rail kit P.S.: Although not quite so Linux-friendly, I've also got a Cisco 2801 ISR running IOS 12.4(3) Adv. Enterprise Svcs. up for grabs: $1700, but quite flexible. -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 03:15:40 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 23:15:40 -0400 Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! Message-ID: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> Okay, kiddies! Here's what you do ... Stick a defective CD in your CD-ROM bay and run the "find" command. It works until it comes to something wrong in one of the directories, then the kernel starts ripping through so many I/O errors (seemingly dozens per second), that your only choice is to reboot, even if you have files open. You can't bring down X (ctrl+alt+backsapce); you can't ctrl +alt+delete; you can't do SFA! Works like a charm :-) I am trying to build a database of my copious CDs I have accumulated over the years, and was lucky I made backups when I had to do this to an open database file. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 03:21:06 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 23:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Linux Meetup In-Reply-To: <1146607194.10846.0.camel@neo> References: <1146607194.10846.0.camel@neo> Message-ID: <20060503032106.34457.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > So I'd gather there will be no regular meeting @ > Galbraith building? > p. Yes, there will be be a meeting at the UofT, NEXT week. The meet-up stuff is a different animal... I went (because the meeting location is an under 10 minute walk from home :-) ). I arrived a bit late and did not see anyone, sigh... > ?? ??????, 26/04/2006 ?? 03:40 -0400, Robert > Brockway ??????????: > > Is anyone going to this on May 2: > > > > > http://linux.meetup.com/22/events/4892870/?a=cn1_cn2&gj=ej3 > > > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 03:39:26 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 23:39:26 -0400 Subject: [OT] 2 IBM xSeries 345 servers for sale, loaded. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060503033926.GA10754@utoronto.ca> hi vlad, please let me know if you have trouble selling these. I have a computer recycling projecti nRegent park that could REALLY use them ubt we currently have no budget. I'm trying to attract some funds, but it's going slow... anyway, maybe ify ou have toruble I could try to scrape some kind of cash together. matt On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 07:39:29PM -0400, Vlad wrote: > Greetings all, > > I'm planning on moving soon, so I need to shed some gear - I > want less rackmount gear at my place. ;) > > Anyhow. I've got two IBM xSeries 345s (Cisco branded, I'll > explain below) up for grabs. They're fully Linux-friendly, to the > point where VMware ESX Server can even read their serial numbers as it > boots up. Pictures are available at http://www.umbravia.org/ce.html > > 1x Cisco CE-7305-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $900 > * One 2.4GHz HT Xeon, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > * 2GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs ( 4x 512MB) > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > 1x Cisco CE-7325-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $1500 > * Two 2.4GHz HT Xeons, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > * 4GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs (4x 1GB) > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > These are 2U IBM servers, but sold by Cisco as Content > Engines. (And prices marked up accordingly.) The only difference is > that they're designed to boot off a built-in CF slot, and have a green > Cisco bezel on the front. > > They have been flashed with latest IBM BIOS and IPMI code. > Servers have been used about six months on and off. All original IBM > parts. Green Cisco bezel on front. They do NOT come with hard disks, > or disk trays. However, I do have a Fujitsu 73GB/10k RPM U320 SCSI > disk up for grabs for $150, that works fine in 'em, if there's a need > for one. > > I'm flexible on the pricing, make me a reasonable offer. > (Although I'll note that as stand-alone IBM parts, they're worth more > than their sums.) They're available for pickup from downtown Toronto. > > More detailed specs: > > Back of server: > * 2x Intel PRO/1000 MT GbE ports > * 1x VHDCI SCSI U160 connector > * 2x PCI-X/100MHz Low-Profile slots > (1 is ZCR-capable with an IBM ServeRAID 6i+, sold separately ;) ) > * 2x PCI-X/133MHz Full-Profile/Full-Length slots > * 1x PCI Full-Profile/Half-Length slot > * 2x USB 1.1 ports in the back > Front of server: > * 1x 24x Slim CD-ROM drive > * 1x USB 1.1 port in the front > * 6x U320 SCSI hot-swap drive bays, accept IBM trays > Misc: > * 2x Hot-swap 350W PSUs > * 1x 128MB SanDisk Industrial Grade CF (Cisco approved) > * 1x Rail kit > > > P.S.: Although not quite so Linux-friendly, I've also got a Cisco > 2801 ISR running IOS 12.4(3) Adv. Enterprise Svcs. up for grabs: > $1700, but quite flexible. > ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 04:10:03 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 21:10:03 -0700 Subject: [OT] 2 IBM xSeries 345 servers for sale, loaded. In-Reply-To: <20060503033926.GA10754-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060503033926.GA10754@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Matt, I know this is quite OT but could you tell us more about the computer recycling project? Or email me off-list if you prefer. Jason On 5/2/06, Matt Price wrote: > hi vlad, > > please let me know if you have trouble selling these. I have a > computer recycling projecti nRegent park that could REALLY use them > ubt we currently have no budget. I'm trying to attract some funds, > but it's going slow... > > anyway, maybe ify ou have toruble I could try to scrape some kind of > cash together. > > matt > > On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 07:39:29PM -0400, Vlad wrote: > > Greetings all, > > > > I'm planning on moving soon, so I need to shed some gear - I > > want less rackmount gear at my place. ;) > > > > Anyhow. I've got two IBM xSeries 345s (Cisco branded, I'll > > explain below) up for grabs. They're fully Linux-friendly, to the > > point where VMware ESX Server can even read their serial numbers as it > > boots up. Pictures are available at http://www.umbravia.org/ce.html > > > > 1x Cisco CE-7305-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $900 > > * One 2.4GHz HT Xeon, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > > * 2GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs ( 4x 512MB) > > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > > > 1x Cisco CE-7325-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $1500 > > * Two 2.4GHz HT Xeons, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > > * 4GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs (4x 1GB) > > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > > > These are 2U IBM servers, but sold by Cisco as Content > > Engines. (And prices marked up accordingly.) The only difference is > > that they're designed to boot off a built-in CF slot, and have a green > > Cisco bezel on the front. > > > > They have been flashed with latest IBM BIOS and IPMI code. > > Servers have been used about six months on and off. All original IBM > > parts. Green Cisco bezel on front. They do NOT come with hard disks, > > or disk trays. However, I do have a Fujitsu 73GB/10k RPM U320 SCSI > > disk up for grabs for $150, that works fine in 'em, if there's a need > > for one. > > > > I'm flexible on the pricing, make me a reasonable offer. > > (Although I'll note that as stand-alone IBM parts, they're worth more > > than their sums.) They're available for pickup from downtown Toronto. > > > > More detailed specs: > > > > Back of server: > > * 2x Intel PRO/1000 MT GbE ports > > * 1x VHDCI SCSI U160 connector > > * 2x PCI-X/100MHz Low-Profile slots > > (1 is ZCR-capable with an IBM ServeRAID 6i+, sold separately ;) ) > > * 2x PCI-X/133MHz Full-Profile/Full-Length slots > > * 1x PCI Full-Profile/Half-Length slot > > * 2x USB 1.1 ports in the back > > Front of server: > > * 1x 24x Slim CD-ROM drive > > * 1x USB 1.1 port in the front > > * 6x U320 SCSI hot-swap drive bays, accept IBM trays > > Misc: > > * 2x Hot-swap 350W PSUs > > * 1x 128MB SanDisk Industrial Grade CF (Cisco approved) > > * 1x Rail kit > > > > > > P.S.: Although not quite so Linux-friendly, I've also got a Cisco > > 2801 ISR running IOS 12.4(3) Adv. Enterprise Svcs. up for grabs: > > $1700, but quite flexible. > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > History Department, University of Toronto > (416) 978-2094 > -------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 09:45:19 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 05:45:19 -0400 Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! In-Reply-To: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <44587BAF.8040108@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: > Okay, kiddies! Here's what you do ... > Stick a defective CD in your CD-ROM bay and run the "find" command. > It works until it comes to something wrong in one of the directories, > then the kernel starts ripping through so many I/O errors (seemingly > dozens per second), that your only choice is to reboot, even if you have > files open. You can't bring down X (ctrl+alt+backsapce); you can't ctrl > +alt+delete; you can't do SFA! > > Works like a charm :-) What happens if you press ctl-alt-esc and then click on the offending window? Can you ssh in from another system to kill the process? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 10:33:38 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 06:33:38 -0400 Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! In-Reply-To: <44587BAF.8040108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> Haven't tried ssh, but I strongly doubt that ctrl+alt+esc would work, since the kernel appears to have gone bonkers. I only knew about the I/O errors in console (TTY) mode. When I tried this under X, the system appeared frozen and unresponsive. I couldn't even get the mouse to move. In console mode, I couldn't even switch consoles. On 3 May 2006 at 5:45, James Knott spaketh these wourdes: > Paul King wrote: > > Okay, kiddies! Here's what you do ... > > Stick a defective CD in your CD-ROM bay and run the "find" command. > > It works until it comes to something wrong in one of the directories, > > then the kernel starts ripping through so many I/O errors (seemingly > > dozens per second), that your only choice is to reboot, even if you have > > files open. You can't bring down X (ctrl+alt+backsapce); you can't ctrl > > +alt+delete; you can't do SFA! > > > > Works like a charm :-) > > What happens if you press ctl-alt-esc and then click on the offending > window? Can you ssh in from another system to kill the process? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 13:18:38 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 16:18:38 +0300 (IDT) Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! In-Reply-To: <44587BAF.8040108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44587BAF.8040108@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > Paul King wrote: >> Okay, kiddies! Here's what you do ... >> Stick a defective CD in your CD-ROM bay and run the "find" command. >> It works until it comes to something wrong in one of the directories, >> then the kernel starts ripping through so many I/O errors (seemingly >> dozens per second), that your only choice is to reboot, even if you have >> files open. You can't bring down X (ctrl+alt+backsapce); you can't ctrl >> +alt+delete; you can't do SFA! >> >> Works like a charm :-) > > What happens if you press ctl-alt-esc and then click on the offending > window? Can you ssh in from another system to kill the process? I think not. I have seen this problem with dead or dying hard disks. The kernel drivers have timeouts but it is possible to run into a drive that times out with error, just before the kernel does. So you have a system that tries to read say 10,000 sectors with a drive-imposed timeout of 2 seconds. That will take a while, and the kernel process is uninterruptible at that point. In theory, if you wait it out, it will eventually come back to a prompt, but sometimes you cannot wait that long. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 13:45:08 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 09:45:08 -0400 Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! In-Reply-To: <44584EC2.22641.37F25A-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 06:33 -0400, Paul King wrote: > Haven't tried ssh, but I strongly doubt that ctrl+alt+esc would work, since the > kernel appears to have gone bonkers. I only knew about the I/O errors in console > (TTY) mode. When I tried this under X, the system appeared frozen and > unresponsive. I couldn't even get the mouse to move. In console mode, I couldn't > even switch consoles. How about sysrq? That may give you insight, or at least sync your disks if you crash. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 14:03:51 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:03:51 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Meetup In-Reply-To: <20060503032106.34457.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1146607194.10846.0.camel@neo> <20060503032106.34457.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/2/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > So I'd gather there will be no regular meeting @ > > Galbraith building? > > p. > > Yes, there will be be a meeting at the UofT, NEXT > week. > > The meet-up stuff is a different animal... I went > (because the meeting location is an under 10 minute > walk from home :-) ). I arrived a bit late and did not > see anyone, sigh... I signed up to meetup.com as well, with the idea that if I had a free evening I'd head out to one of the many meetings .. unfortunately, my free time these days seems to be undefined. :( -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 14:07:47 2006 From: frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 10:07:47 -0400 Subject: Free install a web site to collect ad money and help people in dictatorship countries! In-Reply-To: <1146663908.4402.137.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Hi, One company has developed a web database system to help dictatorship countries' people to reach out the truthful world and you can put an advertizing to collect money as well. The web application is a pure Java Servlet JSP program. If you worked with Apache Tomcat, it will be very easy for you to understand and to install. The language of the interface can be changed on the fly. For example: Vietnamese: https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=vi English: https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en Traditional Chinese: https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_TW Simplized Chinese https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_CN If you already has a Tomcat web site, our web site can be put together with yours. We just privately tell the domain name to some friend living those dictatorship countries such as North Korea, Iran, China, so that they have a means to reach out the free world. I installed one in my Linux box in my basement. https://www.ddint.org/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en Thanks a lot! Frank Peng. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 18:04:53 2006 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 14:04:53 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 Message-ID: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 18:13:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:13:32 -0400 Subject: How to bring Fedora Core 3 to its knees! In-Reply-To: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060503181332.GC2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 11:15:40PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > Okay, kiddies! Here's what you do ... > Stick a defective CD in your CD-ROM bay and run the "find" command. > It works until it comes to something wrong in one of the directories, > then the kernel starts ripping through so many I/O errors (seemingly > dozens per second), that your only choice is to reboot, even if you have > files open. You can't bring down X (ctrl+alt+backsapce); you can't ctrl > +alt+delete; you can't do SFA! > > Works like a charm :-) > > I am trying to build a database of my copious CDs I have accumulated > over the years, and was lucky I made backups when I had to do this to an > open database file.] Could hit control-c and wait the 5 or 10 minutes it takes for the ide-cd layer to stop retrying. It will eventually stop, but it takes a while. Rebooting is certainly not necesary in general. Of course it is possible one of the automounter/filemonitoring/other desktop crap that they have running by default is causing the problem with the defective cd, in which case who knows. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 18:05:33 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:05:33 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: <4457A818.7050508-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> <20060502175328.GA24459@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4457A818.7050508@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060503180533.GA2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 02:42:32PM -0400, Dave Stubbs wrote: > With lspci, the NIC shows up as: > > Intel Corporation 82541GI/PI Gigabit Ethernet Controller > > There are a lot of 8111 devices, but this one doesn't seem to be part of > that. > > Quite possible that it is PCIe though, although none of the slots on > this board are. No it probably isn't PCIe since I don't think the 8111 does PCIe at all. For that matter the 8111 might only do 100Mbit rather than Gbit itself, which could explain the intel part. It is probably PCI, although it is probably 66MHz and likely even 64bit to help the performance and avoid eating all of the pci bus bandwidth. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 18:11:00 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:11:00 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060503181100.GB2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 04:57:18PM -0400, Mark Lane wrote: > I use to sell these boxes. Comparing that ASUS to that Tyan is not > really a fair comparison. The Tyan listed is a Workstation class board > and the ASUS is a highend Desktop. > > BTW unless something has changed in the last 4 months Tyan's customer > support, firmware and troubleshooting has gone way down hill over the > last 18 months. If you want a really good AMD motherboard you need to > look at the SuperMicro A+ line. > > http://www.supermicro.com/aplus/ > > The Broadcom ServerWorks Chipset versions for AMD is very good. > > I'm a little surprised that the intel gigE did that much better than > the Marvel Yukon. It could be that Tyan has it on a PCIe or PCI-X bus > and not PCI 32. I wouldn't be surprised if ASUS used a 32 bit bus for > their gigE because it is only Desktop Chipset. As I said it isn't a > fair comparison. Well I know the marvel on my asus board has a 66mhz 32bit PCI link. Some newer asus boards have PCIe links to their marvel chips instead. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 19:11:00 2006 From: dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 15:11:00 -0400 Subject: Something fun to add to your Linux server - very fast diskless knoppix! In-Reply-To: <20060503181100.GB2409-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> <20060503181100.GB2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44590044.3020407@utoronto.ca> 1. Boot knoppix on a PC 2. run the knoppix-terminal-server menu item 3. Select all the possible network adapters that you think you might use 4. let the terminal server script finish, and start running 5. collect the contents of /tftpboot from the Knoppix system - maybe put them on a usb memory key 6. shut down the knoppix pc 7. configure your linux server with dhcp, pxe, tftp, nfs 8. mount -o loop your knoppix cd on your linux server 9. copy the contents of the knoppix CD onto your linux server and export it using nfs a. set up pxelinux in the /tftpboot area of your linux server, using the settings and kernel from your usb key b. modify these settings as necessary to load a kernel and connect to your nfs-shared knoppix cd copy c. netboot a workstation with this setup, and run knoppix VERY fast! d. repeat for every new version of knoppix that comes out, or until you fill your server with knoppixes! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 19:15:41 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 15:15:41 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146679494.7416.14.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 02:04:53PM -0400, J. Schaap wrote: >I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. >I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements >to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with >Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? Spoof the browser ID and something else and see if you are still rejected. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 15:09:42 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:09:42 -0400 Subject: Free install a web site to collect ad money and help people in dictatorship countries! In-Reply-To: <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846-MSmFgb0UDN5++nHIsbrJqLpta98KZJIQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hmm. A 7.5MB binary, or 13.3MB of source to dig through. My paranoia on this is far outweighing my goodwill toward oppressed people at the moment. Then again, something like this would be a neat way to compromise boxes out there in some ways, without people suspecting it. Or it's a completely honest project. Comments, anyone? -- Vlad On 5/3/06, frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hi, > > One company has developed a web database system to help dictatorship > countries' people to reach out the truthful world and you can put an > advertizing to collect money as well. > > The web application is a pure Java Servlet JSP program. If you worked with > Apache Tomcat, it will be very easy for you to understand and to install. > > The language of the interface can be changed on the fly. > > For example: > > Vietnamese: > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=vi > > English: > > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en > > Traditional Chinese: > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_TW > > Simplized Chinese > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_CN > > If you already has a Tomcat web site, our web site can be put together with > yours. We just privately tell the domain name to some friend living those > dictatorship countries such as North Korea, Iran, China, so that they have a > means to reach out the free world. > > I installed one in my Linux box in my basement. > > https://www.ddint.org/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en > > > Thanks a lot! > > Frank Peng. > > > > > ________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 14:10:32 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:10:32 -0400 Subject: [OT] 2 IBM xSeries 345 servers for sale, loaded. In-Reply-To: References: <20060503033926.GA10754@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060503141032.GB11591@utoronto.ca> ah, oops, I'd meant to send that last msg to vlad (forgot about the reply-to header)... THis is a project in Regent Park that takes old computers & gets students to rebuild them & install linux on them (we use ubuntu right now). What I really want is to have a thin-client classroom running edubuntu, so that the software part of the class goes better, but for that I need one or two servers, and for that I need some money. right now our budget is $0 but I am applying for some cash and hope some of that comes htrough. So far the class has been semi-successful, a real kick in many ways but very difficult & sometimes frustrating given the limited technical background of the students. happy to go on and on about it if you havem roe questions! matt On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 09:10:03PM -0700, Jason Spiro wrote: > Matt, > > I know this is quite OT but could you tell us more about the computer > recycling project? > > Or email me off-list if you prefer. > > Jason > > On 5/2/06, Matt Price wrote: > > hi vlad, > > > > please let me know if you have trouble selling these. I have a > > computer recycling projecti nRegent park that could REALLY use them > > ubt we currently have no budget. I'm trying to attract some funds, > > but it's going slow... > > > > anyway, maybe ify ou have toruble I could try to scrape some kind of > > cash together. > > > > matt > > > > On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 07:39:29PM -0400, Vlad wrote: > > > Greetings all, > > > > > > I'm planning on moving soon, so I need to shed some gear - I > > > want less rackmount gear at my place. ;) > > > > > > Anyhow. I've got two IBM xSeries 345s (Cisco branded, I'll > > > explain below) up for grabs. They're fully Linux-friendly, to the > > > point where VMware ESX Server can even read their serial numbers as it > > > boots up. Pictures are available at http://www.umbravia.org/ce.html > > > > > > 1x Cisco CE-7305-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $900 > > > * One 2.4GHz HT Xeon, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > > > * 2GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs ( 4x 512MB) > > > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > > > > > 1x Cisco CE-7325-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $1500 > > > * Two 2.4GHz HT Xeons, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > > > * 4GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs (4x 1GB) > > > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > > > > > These are 2U IBM servers, but sold by Cisco as Content > > > Engines. (And prices marked up accordingly.) The only difference is > > > that they're designed to boot off a built-in CF slot, and have a green > > > Cisco bezel on the front. > > > > > > They have been flashed with latest IBM BIOS and IPMI code. > > > Servers have been used about six months on and off. All original IBM > > > parts. Green Cisco bezel on front. They do NOT come with hard disks, > > > or disk trays. However, I do have a Fujitsu 73GB/10k RPM U320 SCSI > > > disk up for grabs for $150, that works fine in 'em, if there's a need > > > for one. > > > > > > I'm flexible on the pricing, make me a reasonable offer. > > > (Although I'll note that as stand-alone IBM parts, they're worth more > > > than their sums.) They're available for pickup from downtown Toronto. > > > > > > More detailed specs: > > > > > > Back of server: > > > * 2x Intel PRO/1000 MT GbE ports > > > * 1x VHDCI SCSI U160 connector > > > * 2x PCI-X/100MHz Low-Profile slots > > > (1 is ZCR-capable with an IBM ServeRAID 6i+, sold separately ;) ) > > > * 2x PCI-X/133MHz Full-Profile/Full-Length slots > > > * 1x PCI Full-Profile/Half-Length slot > > > * 2x USB 1.1 ports in the back > > > Front of server: > > > * 1x 24x Slim CD-ROM drive > > > * 1x USB 1.1 port in the front > > > * 6x U320 SCSI hot-swap drive bays, accept IBM trays > > > Misc: > > > * 2x Hot-swap 350W PSUs > > > * 1x 128MB SanDisk Industrial Grade CF (Cisco approved) > > > * 1x Rail kit > > > > > > > > > P.S.: Although not quite so Linux-friendly, I've also got a Cisco > > > 2801 ISR running IOS 12.4(3) Adv. Enterprise Svcs. up for grabs: > > > $1700, but quite flexible. > > > > > > > Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > History Department, University of Toronto > > (416) 978-2094 > > ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 19:49:04 2006 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 15:49:04 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060503191541.GC31822-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 15:15 -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 02:04:53PM -0400, J. Schaap wrote: > >I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > >I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > >to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > >Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > Spoof the browser ID and something else and see if you are still > rejected. > I've done that and still being rejected. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 20:43:50 2006 From: michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Newman) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 16:43:50 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146679494.7416.14.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. You think that's bad, the Canadian Blood Services site used to block anything that wasn't IE running on Windows! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 20:52:09 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 16:52:09 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <44591606.9040100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <445917F9.6080908@utoronto.ca> Michael Newman wrote: >> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. >> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements >> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with >> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It > worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive > script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). > > Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. > > You think that's bad, the Canadian Blood Services site used to block > anything that wasn't IE running on Windows! The strange part is that the online tax services let you use Firefox on Linux and are recognized by NetFile and Revenue Canada as meeting their standards. Admittedly this may only be an encryption check, but go figure... Take a read of this blog: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/2417 Apparently OSX users have access. Boo. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 20:52:24 2006 From: frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 16:52:24 -0400 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Statistics says there happened only one war between 2 democratic contries. To help people in dictatorship countries do help this world. I heard that at least 3 Canadian soldiers are died last week in Afganhan. Also the victims of 911 are including Canadians. You may stay away from this business but your attitude towards democracy do hurt this soceoity. Actually, the retired military general of Chinese Liberation Army has already warned to erase US if the US wants to involve the Taiwanese Indenpence issues and American laws required the US to protect the Taiwanese people against unwanted governor. When American guys go to fight with the modern Hilterler, Canadians can not just stay away just because when the US are erased, Canada cannot survive at all. Any ways, negative attitude to world democracy and liberty movement is a bad thing for any body. Thank your for your no negative comments! Frank Peng. -----Original Message----- From: Vlad To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:09:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free install a web site to collect ad money and help people in dictatorship countries! Hmm. A 7.5MB binary, or 13.3MB of source to dig through. My paranoia on this is far outweighing my goodwill toward oppressed people at the moment. Then again, something like this would be a neat way to compromise boxes out there in some ways, without people suspecting it. Or it's a completely honest project. Comments, anyone? -- Vlad On 5/3/06, frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hi, > > One company has developed a web database system to help dictatorship > countries' people to reach out the truthful world and you can put an > advertizing to collect money as well. > > The web application is a pure Java Servlet JSP program. If you worked with > Apache Tomcat, it will be very easy for you to understand and to install. > > The language of the interface can be changed on the fly. > > For example: > > Vietnamese: > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=vi > > English: > > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en > > Traditional Chinese: > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_TW > > Simplized Chinese > https://killccp.blogsyte.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=zh_CN > > If you already has a Tomcat web site, our web site can be put together with > yours. We just privately tell the domain name to some friend living those > dictatorship countries such as North Korea, Iran, China, so that they have a > means to reach out the free world. > > I installed one in my Linux box in my basement. > > https://www.ddint.org/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en > > > Thanks a lot! > > Frank Peng. > > > > > ________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:02:28 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 17:02:28 -0400 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E-MSmFgb0UDN5++nHIsbrJqLpta98KZJIQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > When American guys go to fight with the modern Hilterler, Canadians > can not just stay away just because when the US are erased, Canada > cannot survive at all. Godwin's Law invoked on the first message -- I'm impressed. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:08:35 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:08:35 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <44591606.9040100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605031708.35691.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Wednesday 03 May 2006 16:43, Michael Newman wrote: > > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It > worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive > script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). > > Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. I am using the user agent switcher on Firefox 1.5.0.1 on Ubuntu 5.10 https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=59 It works fine for me if I select IE6 on XP I don't have my access code yet to fill out the application to test it all the way through, but I get that far at least. On the census site the browser requirements are as follows: # Microsoft Internet Explorer can be downloaded from the Microsoft Web site. # Netscape Navigator can be downloaded from the Netscape Web site. # Firefox can be downloaded from the Mozilla Web site. # Mozilla can be downloaded from the Mozilla Web site. # MacIntosh users can download the appropriate version of Safari from the Apple Web site. I can get it to load in default Firefox if I go directly to the page after browser detection https://www50.statcan.ca/census2006/index.html?lang=e&page=/statcan/ LoginEN.jsp&listener=/statcan/Entrust/EventListener.js&signApp=TRUE It may or may not work though. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 Earn your service for FREE! Ask about our referral program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:16:35 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <44591A64.9040208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> Message-ID: <50185.207.188.65.194.1146690995.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Wikipedia has a nice entry on Godwin's Law. It's so intelligent it restores ones faith in humanity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Peter > frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> When American guys go to fight with the modern Hilterler, Canadians >> can not just stay away just because when the US are erased, Canada >> cannot survive at all. > Godwin's Law invoked on the first message -- I'm impressed. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:17:53 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:17:53 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <44591606.9040100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/06, Michael Newman wrote: > > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It > worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive > script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). > > Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. > > You think that's bad, the Canadian Blood Services site used to block > anything that wasn't IE running on Windows! > -- Have you tried Opera? There is a preference setting in the menu to ID itself as IE as well. It might be worth a shot... I'm not at home on my linux machine or I would try it myself... -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:18:12 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 17:18:12 -0400 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <44591A64.9040208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> Message-ID: <44591E14.7040504@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> When American guys go to fight with the modern Hilterler, Canadians >> can not just stay away just because when the US are erased, Canada >> cannot survive at all. > Godwin's Law invoked on the first message -- I'm impressed. Is that like a division by zero? ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:24:57 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:24:57 -0400 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E-MSmFgb0UDN5++nHIsbrJqLpta98KZJIQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: > Hmm. > > A 7.5MB binary, or 13.3MB of source to dig through. My > paranoia on this is far outweighing my goodwill toward oppressed > people at the moment. > > Then again, something like this would be a neat way to > compromise boxes out there in some ways, without people suspecting it. > > Or it's a completely honest project. > > Comments, anyone? > > -- Vlad Not to mention its security certificate expired 2 weeks ago... -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:33:39 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <44591E14.7040504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> <44591E14.7040504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 May 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> > When American guys go to fight with the modern Hilterler, Canadians >> > can not just stay away just because when the US are erased, Canada >> > cannot survive at all. >> Godwin's Law invoked on the first message -- I'm impressed. > > Is that like a division by zero? ;) That's a follow of infinite jest! -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:56:18 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 21:56:18 +0000 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E-MSmFgb0UDN5++nHIsbrJqLpta98KZJIQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/06, frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Statistics says there happened only one war between 2 democratic contries. > To help people in dictatorship countries do help this world. But this requires the assumption that installing this software would, in fact, help people in countries that suffer from these various sorts of tyranny. It is not at all obvious that this is in fact the case. > I heard that at least 3 Canadian soldiers are died last week in Afganhan. > Also the victims of 911 are including Canadians. > > You may stay away from this business but your attitude towards democracy do > hurt this soceoity. That does not follow from the premises available. It is possible that "Direct Democracy" could, perhaps even by mistake, due to software bugs, become a conduit that transmitted information about dissidents to some of the respective "tyrant" governments. We *do* know, based on some initial investigation, that there are some things about the security of the systems that aren't quite perfect; there is considerable danger, in such matters, of this sort of thing being twisted "to evil." After all, as "open source" software, what is to prevent a Chinese government agent from downloading copies, and setting up servers purporting to be "in support of democracy," whilst the true intent is for them to then collect information about dissidents. And I don't know that much about the bona-fides of the writers. Perhaps they haven't benign intent. > Any ways, negative attitude to world democracy and liberty movement is a bad > thing for any body. I disagree. Whether or not any particular movement is a good thing or not is a decidedly 'disputable matter,' and I think it is a plenty healthy thing for there to be dissent about "disputable matters." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:56:29 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:56:29 -0400 Subject: Free install a web site to collect ad money and help people in dictatorship countries! In-Reply-To: <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846-MSmFgb0UDN5++nHIsbrJqLpta98KZJIQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200605031756.30141.interlug@weait.net> On Wednesday 03 May 2006 10:07, frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, > > One company has developed a web database system to help dictatorship > countries' people to reach out the truthful world and you can put an > advertizing to collect money as well. http://tor.eff.org/ Have a look at TOR. And privoxy. I think it provides some of the things that you are looking for. From what you posted, I'm concerned about 1) the ties to a specific company, 2) the inclusion of advertising. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 21:56:43 2006 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 17:56:43 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146679494.7416.14.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <1146693403.6669.20.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> I have to apologize for this message. My bad. A few day ago I installed a new sata hard disk, installed Mandriva 2006.0. Installed jre1.5. Just found out that the permissions of /usr/java/jre1.5 was set as user (root) only. Blocking use of java for other users. Chmod 755 and java is working now. Have to spoof to be excepted on census2006. Shouldn't be though. One strange thing happened. While trying to access census2006 before and was rejected this site popped up http://www.fnbomaha.com/common/help/common/403-5.htm ?? The "back button" took me back to census2006. On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 14:04 -0400, J. Schaap wrote: > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? > I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 22:20:29 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 01:20:29 +0300 (IDT) Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <50185.207.188.65.194.1146690995.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> <50185.207.188.65.194.1146690995.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 May 2006 phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Wikipedia has a nice entry on Godwin's Law. It's so intelligent it > restores ones faith in humanity. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Apparently there is a last minute abort option, to cancel the death of a thread killed by Godwin-ing: The invocation of the Wilcox-McCandlish Paradox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilcox-McCandlish_law_of_online_discourse_evolution Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 3 22:21:23 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 01:21:23 +0300 (IDT) Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: <44591E14.7040504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> <44591E14.7040504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: > Is that like a division by zero? ;) If it would be like the division by zero then this thread would continue forever ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 00:00:29 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 20:00:29 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <44591606.9040100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4459441D.7080002@rogers.com> Michael Newman wrote: >> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. >> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements >> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with >> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It > worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive > script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). > > Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. > > You think that's bad, the Canadian Blood Services site used to block > anything that wasn't IE running on Windows! You'd think that after that tainted blood scandal, they'd avoid something that lets in so many viruses. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 02:20:15 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 22:20:15 -0400 Subject: The attitude to democracy is more important than the democracy itself. In-Reply-To: References: <1146626141.4576.7.camel@gandalf> <44584EC2.22641.37F25A@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1146663908.4402.137.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <8C83CD217512DE0-2180-8846@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C83D0A9D4905A8-2180-974E@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <44591A64.9040208@telly.org> <44591E14.7040504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605031920x33a353d9ta43a8e97eb29aad@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/06, Peter wrote: > > > Is that like a division by zero? ;) > > If it would be like the division by zero then this thread would continue > forever ? I invoke Parkinson's law[1] and claim that a thread can indeed go on forever, mutating into multiple topics as necessary, assuming there are participants who still have free time. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law (Really, I just picked a law at random and found a way to invoke it) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 03:10:23 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 23:10:23 -0400 Subject: akregator no longer opens firefox tabs Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605032010r15a42a0crd21b47683bcc242b@mail.gmail.com> Tonight I dist-upgraded my Kanotix (debian sid) box, and now the feature in Akregator that allows you to open news articles in tabs in Firefox no longer works. Before, I had this setting in Akregator preferences - which allowed me to use Firefox as my external browser, and would open a news article in a new tab in Firefox when I right-clicked on a news article and chose 'Open in external browser': firefox -remote 'openURL(%u,new-tab)' Now this no longer works. Googling for a solution, the suggestion keeps popping up to change this setting to: firefox %u ...but this only starts up Firefox and opens the first article you selected. After that, no new articles are displayed. Any suggestions how I can resurrect the old functionality of opening articles in new tabs on a external browser (firefox)? Thanks. -- Daniel W. Armstrong :: build-it-yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 05:45:32 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 01:45:32 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? Message-ID: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... #!/bin/bash while read do line_out="" line_pointer=$(( ${#REPLY} - 1 )) while [[ ${line_pointer} -ge 0 ]] do line_out="${line_out}${REPLY:${line_pointer}:1}" line_pointer=$(( ${line_pointer} - 1 )) done echo "${line_out}" done -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 06:13:54 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 02:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: <20060504054532.GA3920-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... > > #!/bin/bash > while read > do > line_out="" > line_pointer=$(( ${#REPLY} - 1 )) > while [[ ${line_pointer} -ge 0 ]] > do > line_out="${line_out}${REPLY:${line_pointer}:1}" > line_pointer=$(( ${line_pointer} - 1 )) > done > echo "${line_out}" > done awk '{ printf "%s\t%s\n", $NF, $0 }' | sort | cut -f2- Use $(NF-1) for penultimate field. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 07:22:09 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 10:22:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: <20060504054532.GA3920-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... Rewriting backwards and sorting will cause trouble because of padding (reversed abcz is before reversed abca) sort -rk ... should do it Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 13:26:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:26:02 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: <20060504054532.GA3920-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060504132602.GD2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 01:45:32AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... man rev :) On the other hand a perl script reading the whole thing into an array of one line per array entry and then doing a sort with a custom compare function that looks at the second last character/word/whatever on the array and then printing the result out might the be most efficient. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 13:46:32 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:46:32 -0400 Subject: is my power supply failing? Message-ID: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> Hi folks, I've been having some trouble with hard freezes/crashes and installed the lm-sensors package on my debian sid box. It gives readings that sound somewhat scary, e.g.: May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: VCore 1: +1.78 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +3.3V: +3.10 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:01 anarres /USR/SBIN/CRON[19578]: (mail) CMD ( if [ -x /usr/lib/exim/exim3 -a -f /etc/exim/exim.conf ]; then /usr/lib /exim/exim3 -q ; fi) May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: VCore 1: +1.81 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +3.3V: +3.12 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] my question: how do I find out more about what are acceptable voltage levels on Power Supply outputs? for instance I'm getting a +12 voltage of about 13.0 (not in this particular case, I knw): is this way out of spec? If so, will changing my PS fix thep roblem? thanks a lot for your help, matt ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 15:01:06 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 11:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060504134632.GA16421-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > Hi folks, > > I've been having some trouble with hard freezes/crashes and installed > the lm-sensors package on my debian sid box. It gives readings that > sound somewhat scary, e.g.: > > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 1: +1.78 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) > [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +3.3V: +3.10 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:01 anarres /USR/SBIN/CRON[19578]: (mail) CMD ( if [ -x > /usr/lib/exim/exim3 -a -f /etc/exim/exim.conf ]; then /usr/lib > /exim/exim3 -q ; fi) > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 1: +1.81 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +3.3V: +3.12 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] > > > my question: how do I find out more about what are acceptable voltage > levels on Power Supply outputs? for instance I'm getting a +12 voltage > of about 13.0 (not in this particular case, I knw): is this way out > of spec? If so, will changing my PS fix thep roblem? > > thanks a lot for your help, > > matt That doesn't look too good... Generally there is a sticker on the side of your PSU that *should* tell you the designer's expected variation levels per voltage rail. Anything over 5% on the <5vDC rails and 10% on the 12vDC rails though makes me nervous, given how sensitive things are. If you do need to replace your PSU, one of my all-time favourites for rock steady voltage rails is the Antec TruePower (TP) line. Remember though, don't get the highest wattage you can afford! PSUs are most efficient at a percentage of their maximum load (generally around 75% of their max). So if you're drawing around 250w, a 330/350w(ish) PSU will be best for your hydro bill. :p HTH! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 14:21:27 2006 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 10:21:27 -0400 Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <445A0DE7.5080502@mineallmeyn.com> Hi All, > If you do need to replace your PSU, one of my all-time favourites for rock > steady voltage rails is the Antec TruePower (TP) line. Remember though, > don't get the highest wattage you can afford! PSUs are most efficient at a > percentage of their maximum load (generally around 75% of their max). So > if you're drawing around 250w, a 330/350w(ish) PSU will be best for your > hydro bill. :p At the risk of taking this thread off topic, do you have any links that describe or explain these in/efficencies? I've been doing an energy audit of my house and thinking about things like power conversion factors (ie VA != Watts), and with ummm, many, computers in my house the question of PS efficiency is reasonably important. Not to mention the surprisingly high constant load of UPSs. Thanks, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 15:32:58 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 11:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <445A0DE7.5080502-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <445A0DE7.5080502@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <28870.66.135.96.43.1146756778.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > At the risk of taking this thread off topic, do you have any links that > describe or explain these in/efficencies? I've been doing an energy > audit of my house and thinking about things like power conversion > factors (ie VA != Watts), and with ummm, many, computers in my house the > question of PS efficiency is reasonably important. Not to mention the > surprisingly high constant load of UPSs. > > Thanks, > Oliver I will look tonight, *but*, efficiency is not a common. In fact, efficiency and voltage stability are what separate good PSUs from cheap one, *not* wattage as most people think. So, to get an accurate efficiency/load rating you will need to look at each specific PSU and then hope that the company recorded their efficiency curve somewhere public. There have been a few really great PSU comparisons done now and then and I know I bookmarked the ones I saw but I'd have to dig them out of my mountain of bookmarks, which I'll do when I get home. In the meantime, try googling for PSU comparison pages and ignore any that don't use proper testing equipment. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 15:07:23 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 11:07:23 -0400 Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/06, linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > > If you do need to replace your PSU, one of my all-time favourites for rock > steady voltage rails is the Antec TruePower (TP) line. Remember though, > don't get the highest wattage you can afford! PSUs are most efficient at a > percentage of their maximum load (generally around 75% of their max). So > if you're drawing around 250w, a 330/350w(ish) PSU will be best for your > hydro bill. :p > > HTH! > > Madison Next you'll tell I really don't need the 300hp car all the commercials are telling me I deserve. As long as I can still throw away half of all the food I put on my plate. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 16:15:20 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 12:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <10892.66.135.96.43.1146759320.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > > > Next you'll tell I really don't need the 300hp car all the commercials > are telling me I deserve. > > As long as I can still throw away half of all the food I put on my plate. > > > > -Steve. Heh, if only it *was* sarcasm to most people. :p Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 17:12:35 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:12:35 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 11:01:06AM -0400, linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > my question: how do I find out more about what are acceptable voltage > > levels on Power Supply outputs? for instance I'm getting a +12 voltage > > of about 13.0 (not in this particular case, I knw): is this way out > > of spec? If so, will changing my PS fix thep roblem? > > > > thanks a lot for your help, > > > > matt > > That doesn't look too good... > > Generally there is a sticker on the side of your PSU that *should* tell > you the designer's expected variation levels per voltage rail. Anything > over 5% on the <5vDC rails and 10% on the 12vDC rails though makes me > nervous, given how sensitive things are. > > If you do need to replace your PSU, one of my all-time favourites for rock > steady voltage rails is the Antec TruePower (TP) line. Remember though, > don't get the highest wattage you can afford! PSUs are most efficient at a > percentage of their maximum load (generally around 75% of their max). So > if you're drawing around 250w, a 330/350w(ish) PSU will be best for your > hydro bill. :p > > HTH! > > Madison Well, as to whether it helped... a little hard to say. I managed to generate another crash by running my dvd player & compiling a kernel; I watched the cpu temp rocket up and the voltages move further off their marks, and decided I really needed a new PSU right away. SO I just cycled down & bought a medium-priced one -- perhaps not an ideal choice -- and switched them out... and voila! I've produced an absolutley screwed up system. THe mystem starts to boot, gets to the memory check, finishes it, and then... nothing. can't get into BIOS or anything. I tried the old PSU and it doesn'twork. I'm wondering if I've forgotten something fundamental but can't think of anything (well, that's the definition of 'forget', isn't it...). The main power is plugged in properly, the HD's are powered on... is there anything else? The CPU is recognied, as is the memory -- what else would prevent me from getting into BIOS? anyway, sorry to start moving OT, I'm just a bit panicky & depressed (is that possible?) about this. In German there's a special word for this: "verschlimbessern" hwich means "to break something further by trying to fix it". I use that word more often than I wouldl ike to. matt > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 18:27:04 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 14:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060504171235.GA21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > Well, as to whether it helped... a little hard to say. I managed to > generate another crash by running my dvd player & compiling a kernel; I > watched the cpu temp rocket up and the voltages move further off their > marks, and decided I really needed a new PSU right away. SO I just cycled > down & bought a medium-priced one -- perhaps not an ideal choice -- and > switched them out... and voila! I've produced an absolutley screwed up > system. THe mystem starts to boot, gets to the memory check, finishes it, > and then... nothing. can't get into BIOS or anything. I tried the old > PSU > and it doesn'twork. I'm wondering if I've forgotten something fundamental > but can't think of anything (well, that's the definition of 'forget', > isn't > it...). The main power is plugged in properly, the HD's are powered on... > is there anything else? The CPU is recognied, as is the memory -- what > else > would prevent me from getting into BIOS? > > anyway, sorry to start moving OT, I'm just a bit panicky & depressed (is > that possible?) about this. > > In German there's a special word for this: "verschlimbessern" hwich means > "to break something further by trying to fix it". I use that word more > often than I wouldl ike to. > > matt I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your mainboard (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger capacitors and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a new mainboard. If this is the case, it would very much explain the fluctuating voltages, too, as the caps are meant to help stabalize the voltages during fluctuations. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 18:29:32 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 14:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060504171235.GA21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <15222.66.135.96.43.1146767372.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > Well, as to whether it helped... a little hard to say. I managed to > generate another crash by running my dvd player & compiling a kernel; I > watched the cpu temp rocket up and the voltages move further off their > marks, and decided I really needed a new PSU right away. SO I just cycled > down & bought a medium-priced one -- perhaps not an ideal choice -- and > switched them out... and voila! I've produced an absolutley screwed up > system. THe mystem starts to boot, gets to the memory check, finishes it, > and then... nothing. can't get into BIOS or anything. I tried the old > PSU > and it doesn'twork. I'm wondering if I've forgotten something fundamental > but can't think of anything (well, that's the definition of 'forget', > isn't > it...). The main power is plugged in properly, the HD's are powered on... > is there anything else? The CPU is recognied, as is the memory -- what > else > would prevent me from getting into BIOS? > > anyway, sorry to start moving OT, I'm just a bit panicky & depressed (is > that possible?) about this. > > In German there's a special word for this: "verschlimbessern" hwich means > "to break something further by trying to fix it". I use that word more > often than I wouldl ike to. > > matt Check this out and see if yours match at all: http://www.auroracomputer.ca/bad_capacitors.htm Those type of caps should always be perfectly flat on their top. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 17:25:06 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:25:06 -0400 Subject: is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060504134632.GA16421-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060504172506.GE2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 09:46:32AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've been having some trouble with hard freezes/crashes and installed > the lm-sensors package on my debian sid box. It gives readings that > sound somewhat scary, e.g.: > > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 1: +1.78 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) > [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +3.3V: +3.10 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:37:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:01 anarres /USR/SBIN/CRON[19578]: (mail) CMD ( if [ -x > /usr/lib/exim/exim3 -a -f /etc/exim/exim.conf ]; then /usr/lib > /exim/exim3 -q ; fi) > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 1: +1.81 V (min = +1.42 V, max = +1.57 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > VCore 2: +1.25 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +2.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +3.3V: +3.12 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +5V: +4.60 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > +12V: +12.99 V (min = +11.39 V, max = +12.61 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -12V: -10.67 V (min = -12.63 V, max = -11.41 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > -5V: -8.86 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.77 V) [ALARM] > May 4 05:38:23 anarres sensord: Sensor alarm: Chip it87-isa-0290: > fan2: 0 RPM (min = 3013 RPM, div = 8) [ALARM] > > > my question: how do I find out more about what are acceptable voltage > levels on Power Supply outputs? for instance I'm getting a +12 voltage > of about 13.0 (not in this particular case, I knw): is this way out > of spec? If so, will changing my PS fix thep roblem? > > thanks a lot for your help, Keep in mind that unless you have a correct sensors config file for your sensors in linux, the values could be very wrong that you see. Just because you can read the raw value from a sensor doesn't mean you are handling it correctly, since different boards use different resistors and other components along with the sensor chip. Someimes you have to divide or multiply the value, or offset it by a specific amount. Check the values reported by the bios (assuming it has a menu showing the sensor readings). If those look wrong, then try another power supply, otherwise you just have to fix the sensors.conf in linux. For example: athlon:~# sensors as99127f-i2c-0-2d Adapter: SMBus Via Pro adapter at e800 VCore 1: +1.79 V (min = +1.62 V, max = +1.78 V) ALARM This one I am not sure about. VCore 2: +0.13 V (min = +1.62 V, max = +1.78 V) ALARM I know this one is miscalculated for sure. +3.3V: +3.60 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.46 V) ALARM This one I am not sure about either. I think the bios shows the same value. Maybe my 3.3V rail really is running a bit high. +5V: +5.13 V (min = +4.73 V, max = +5.24 V) +12V: +12.28 V (min = +10.82 V, max = +13.19 V) -12V: -12.08 V (min = -13.22 V, max = -10.74 V) -5V: -5.32 V (min = -5.25 V, max = -4.74 V) ALARM This one may also be right and the -5V is running a slight bit high. fan1: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 2) fan2: 2922 RPM (min = 2836 RPM, div = 2) fan3: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 2) M/B Temp: +38 C (high = +105 C, hyst = +0 C) CPU Temp: +46.5 C (high = +95 C, hyst = +80 C) (beep) temp3: -31.5 C (high = +122 C, hyst = +121 C) vid: +1.700 V (VRM Version 9.0) alarms: beep_enable: Sound alarm enabled That is from an old rev 1.02 Asus A7V board, which I know has a few problems, and some design problems which were fixed in later versions. For all I know the sensor values were not calibrated correctly yet either, so maybe everything is fine. The system is certainly rock solid in operation. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 17:56:23 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:56:23 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <15222.66.135.96.43.1146767372.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15222.66.135.96.43.1146767372.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: Also, make sure that it's the right kind of a power supply. That is, for most people, it'll be an ATX 2.XX model, that has a 24pin main rail, and often a 4 or 8 pin additional 12V rail that goes into the mainboard. There are other pin-compatible power wiring layouts. For example, a Tyan board I have (Tyan S2603 - i860 Thunder) uses a WTX power supply. I could plug in an ATX or EPS12V one, but... not so good results. The dual Athlon board before, (Tyan S2462 - K7 Thunder) had an even odder power wiring layout GES-12V. But, I digress. Did you grab the right power supply kind? If it's not the capacitors as someone else mentioned, it could be a different PSU kind, and, well, that kind of a thing fries boards permanently. Cheers, -- Vlad On 5/4/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Well, as to whether it helped... a little hard to say. I managed to > > generate another crash by running my dvd player & compiling a kernel; I > > watched the cpu temp rocket up and the voltages move further off their > > marks, and decided I really needed a new PSU right away. SO I just cycled > > down & bought a medium-priced one -- perhaps not an ideal choice -- and > > switched them out... and voila! I've produced an absolutley screwed up > > system. THe mystem starts to boot, gets to the memory check, finishes it, > > and then... nothing. can't get into BIOS or anything. I tried the old > > PSU > > and it doesn'twork. I'm wondering if I've forgotten something fundamental > > but can't think of anything (well, that's the definition of 'forget', > > isn't > > it...). The main power is plugged in properly, the HD's are powered on... > > is there anything else? The CPU is recognied, as is the memory -- what > > else > > would prevent me from getting into BIOS? > > > > anyway, sorry to start moving OT, I'm just a bit panicky & depressed (is > > that possible?) about this. > > > > In German there's a special word for this: "verschlimbessern" hwich means > > "to break something further by trying to fix it". I use that word more > > often than I wouldl ike to. > > > > matt > > Check this out and see if yours match at all: > > http://www.auroracomputer.ca/bad_capacitors.htm > > Those type of caps should always be perfectly flat on their top. > > Madison > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 18:20:50 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 21:20:50 +0300 (IDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060504171235.GA21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: reseat the memories and the cpu (several times each), and check that the disk cables are in (reseat several times). You may have to reset the cmos to make it 'like' the new psu. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 18:26:38 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 04 May 2006 14:26:38 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Peter writes: > On Thu, 4 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... > > Rewriting backwards and sorting will cause trouble because of padding > (reversed abcz is before reversed abca) > > > sort -rk ... should do it This is by far the easiest solution posted, although I'm not sure why you would need "-r". That reverses the sort order (i.e. to reverse alphabetic) which wasn't in the problem description. Just to clarify Peter's answer. If you have N fields in a line, use: sort -k N For details see: info coreutils sort -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 18:21:51 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 14:21:51 -0400 Subject: DrupalCampToronto -- May 12 Message-ID: <445A463F.4070001@telly.org> The Toronto Drupal User Group is putting on a one-day event offering both an introduction to the open source Content Management System, and a way for advanced developers to share and learn. For more information see http://www.cluecan.ca/node/233 http://barcamp.org/DrupalCampToronto - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 19:00:08 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 15:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 2006, Tim Writer wrote: > Peter writes: > >> On Thu, 4 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >>> How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? >>> >>> One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, >>> sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines >>> backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines >>> backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines >>> unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL >>> LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... >> >> Rewriting backwards and sorting will cause trouble because of padding >> (reversed abcz is before reversed abca) >> >> >> sort -rk ... should do it > > This is by far the easiest solution posted, although I'm not sure why you > would need "-r". That reverses the sort order (i.e. to reverse alphabetic) > which wasn't in the problem description. > > Just to clarify Peter's answer. If you have N fields in a line, use: > > sort -k N That doesn't help if you don't know how many fields there are, or if there is a variable number of fields. > For details see: > > info coreutils sort -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 19:49:17 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 15:49:17 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: <20060504054532.GA3920-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: A possible solution in Perl: ---------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/perl -w # Sort using the last word of each line. use strict; use warnings; my %hash; while(<>) { # Strip any newline, split line into words. chomp; my @a=split(/ /,$_); # Stuff the line into a hash of arrays, using the last word as the hash key. push(@{$hash{$a[-1]}},$_); } # Dump out the sorted (using the default sorting algorithim) results from the # hash. foreach my $key ( sort keys %hash ) { # Within each key there may be several lines; dump them out in the order # that they were encountered. foreach(@{$hash{$key}}) { print "$_\n"; } } # Done. ---------------------------------- To sort on the second to last field, change the '-1' to '-2'; you can also subsitute your own sort algorithim after the word 'sort'. You can also change what consitutes a 'word' by changing the delimiter in the split statement. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario On 5/4/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... > > #!/bin/bash > while read > do > line_out="" > line_pointer=$(( ${#REPLY} - 1 )) > while [[ ${line_pointer} -ge 0 ]] > do > line_out="${line_out}${REPLY:${line_pointer}:1}" > line_pointer=$(( ${line_pointer} - 1 )) > done > echo "${line_out}" > done > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 19:52:16 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 15:52:16 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Hmm, and if you want to reverse the entire line (read the spec, read the spec, read the spec), just push 'reverse $_' inside the first loop. On 5/4/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > > A possible solution in Perl: > > ---------------------------------- > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > > # Sort using the last word of each line. > > use strict; > use warnings; > > my %hash; > > while(<>) { > > # Strip any newline, split line into words. > > chomp; > my @a=split(/ /,$_); > > # Stuff the line into a hash of arrays, using the last word as the hash > key. > > push(@{$hash{$a[-1]}},$_); > } > > # Dump out the sorted (using the default sorting algorithim) results from > the > # hash. > > foreach my $key ( sort keys %hash ) { > > # Within each key there may be several lines; dump them out in the > order > # that they were encountered. > > foreach(@{$hash{$key}}) { > > print "$_\n"; > } > } > > # Done. > ---------------------------------- > > To sort on the second to last field, change the '-1' to '-2'; you can also > subsitute your own sort algorithim after the word 'sort'. You can also > change what consitutes a 'word' by changing the delimiter in the split > statement. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > > > On 5/4/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... > > > > #!/bin/bash > > while read > > do > > line_out="" > > line_pointer=$(( ${#REPLY} - 1 )) > > while [[ ${line_pointer} -ge 0 ]] > > do > > line_out="${line_out}${REPLY:${line_pointer}:1}" > > line_pointer=$(( ${line_pointer} - 1 )) > > done > > echo "${line_out}" > > done > > > > -- > > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 21:55:06 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 00:55:06 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> sort -rk ... should do it >> >> This is by far the easiest solution posted, although I'm not sure why you >> would need "-r". That reverses the sort order (i.e. to reverse alphabetic) >> which wasn't in the problem description. >> >> Just to clarify Peter's answer. If you have N fields in a line, use: >> >> sort -k N > > That doesn't help if you don't know how many fields there are, > or if there is a variable number of fields. Oh, you mean he wants to sort variable length (in fields) lines ? There are such algorythms. I think that they are called 'phone book sorting' or similar (for obvious reasons). They are also used to sort f.ex. street names and people names (which have titles e.g. Dr. Eng. Fr. etc prepended). One way to do it with sort -k is to force the input to canonical length (in fields). This can be the length, in fields, of the longest line (again in fields). This requires two passes. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 4 22:10:45 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 18:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 May 2006, Peter wrote: > > On Thu, 4 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> > > sort -rk ... should do it >> > >> > This is by far the easiest solution posted, although I'm not sure why >> > you >> > would need "-r". That reverses the sort order (i.e. to reverse >> > alphabetic) >> > which wasn't in the problem description. >> > >> > Just to clarify Peter's answer. If you have N fields in a line, use: >> > >> > sort -k N >> >> That doesn't help if you don't know how many fields there are, >> or if there is a variable number of fields. > > Oh, you mean he wants to sort variable length (in fields) lines ? There are > such algorythms. I think that they are called 'phone book sorting' or similar > (for obvious reasons). They are also used to sort f.ex. street names and > people names (which have titles e.g. Dr. Eng. Fr. etc prepended). One way to > do it with sort -k is to force the input to canonical length (in fields). > This can be the length, in fields, of the longest line (again in fields). > This requires two passes. Or there is the method I posted earlier: awk '{ printf "%s\t%s\n", $NF, $0 }' | sort | cut -f2- Use $(NF-1) for penultimate field. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 00:26:53 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 20:26:53 -0400 Subject: Script / sort question; sort on last field of a line? In-Reply-To: <20060504132602.GD2409-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504054532.GA3920@waltdnes.org> <20060504132602.GD2409@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060505002653.GB8821@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 09:26:02AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 01:45:32AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > How do I sort on the last (or 2nd last or whatever) field of a line? > > > > One awkward possibility involves rewriting the lines backwards, > > sorting on what is now the first field, and rewriting the lines > > backwards a second time. I'm not aware of a utility to do write lines > > backwards. I am *NOT* thinking of "tac" which writes the lines > > unaltered but reverses their order. I want to write *EACH INDIVIDUAL > > LINE* backwards. The following script does what I want... > > man rev Thank you, thank you, thank you verry verry much. I had seen Google references to a "reverse" command in some *nixes, but couldn't find it in linux. Even after 5 years, I still occasionally have to ask "what command do I use to...". -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 02:27:43 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 22:27:43 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 02:27:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your mainboard > (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger capacitors > and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a > little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a new > mainboard. If this is the case, it would very much explain the fluctuating > voltages, too, as the caps are meant to help stabalize the voltages during > fluctuations. nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. nice detecting - though sorry ot hear it. My box did start up again (had to chill out I guess) so if necessary I will use it a bit in this crippled condition. nonetheless am now in the parket for a new Socket A motherboard with AGP -- anyone got one lying around? they don't seem to have them in stores anymore. ah well. thanks so much, that was a huge help. matt > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 02:32:22 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 22:32:22 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060505022743.GC21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <445AB936.70005@alteeve.com> Matt Price wrote: > On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 02:27:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your mainboard >> (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger capacitors >> and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a >> little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a new >> mainboard. If this is the case, it would very much explain the fluctuating >> voltages, too, as the caps are meant to help stabalize the voltages during >> fluctuations. > > nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. nice detecting - > though sorry ot hear it. My box did start up again (had to chill out I > guess) so if necessary I will use it a bit in this crippled condition. > nonetheless am now in the parket for a new Socket A motherboard with AGP -- > anyone got one lying around? they don't seem to have them in stores > anymore. > > ah well. > > thanks so much, that was a huge help. > > matt Heh, glad to be of help (and right, for once! :P ) Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 02:39:48 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 22:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060505022743.GC21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >> I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your mainboard >> (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger >> capacitors >> and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a >> little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a >> new >> mainboard. . > > nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. Actually, if you are handy with a soldering iron and solder sucker (or solder braid), you can identify the value of the defective capacitors, pick up a bunch of replacements at one of the electronic supply stores, desolder the defective ones, and replace them with new ones. I do know the tech folks at Ryerson EE department did this for some motherboards they needed to keep running. The replacement caps will cost pennies, so it's a cost-effective approach, but it is time consuming. There is an interesting story around those capacitors, involving industrial intrigue and betrayals in the capacitor manufacturers. It was a scandal of major proportions in the EE world. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 02:43:37 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 22:43:37 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your mainboard >>> (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger >>> capacitors >>> and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a >>> little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a >>> new >>> mainboard. . >> nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. > > Actually, if you are handy with a soldering iron and solder sucker (or > solder braid), you can identify the value of the defective capacitors, > pick up a bunch of replacements at one of the electronic supply stores, > desolder the defective ones, and replace them with new ones. I do know the > tech folks at Ryerson EE department did this for some motherboards they > needed to keep running. The replacement caps will cost pennies, so it's a > cost-effective approach, but it is time consuming. > > There is an interesting story around those capacitors, involving > industrial intrigue and betrayals in the capacitor manufacturers. It was a > scandal of major proportions in the EE world. > > Peter With long-reaching, high-level consequences... IBM, Intel and many other tier-1 brands and companies got burned over one SOB looking for a cheap buck. I bet the guys who kept the real recipe were laughing themselves to sleep each night knowing what was coming. Stuff movies are made of, frankly. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 04:10:06 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 00:10:06 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <445ABBD9.5030703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <445AD01E.6080107@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>>> I would now suspect that there are bubbling capacitors on your >>>> mainboard >>>> (it's a common problem these days). Look at some of the bigger >>>> capacitors >>>> and see if their tops are flat our round/bubbled (often you will see a >>>> little yellowish hardened 'goop' on the tops, too). If so, you need a >>>> new >>>> mainboard. . >>> nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. >> >> Actually, if you are handy with a soldering iron and solder sucker (or >> solder braid), you can identify the value of the defective capacitors, >> pick up a bunch of replacements at one of the electronic supply stores, >> desolder the defective ones, and replace them with new ones. I do know >> the >> tech folks at Ryerson EE department did this for some motherboards they >> needed to keep running. The replacement caps will cost pennies, so it's a >> cost-effective approach, but it is time consuming. >> >> There is an interesting story around those capacitors, involving >> industrial intrigue and betrayals in the capacitor manufacturers. It >> was a >> scandal of major proportions in the EE world. >> >> Peter > > With long-reaching, high-level consequences... IBM, Intel and many other > tier-1 brands and companies got burned over one SOB looking for a cheap > buck. I bet the guys who kept the real recipe were laughing themselves > to sleep each night knowing what was coming. Stuff movies are made of, > frankly. Dell got burned on their Optiplex line with some bad caps in 2004 (I think it was 2004). I've put in a few service requests for defective parts and such on a bunch of systems that were purchased at the same time. When the phone support tech realises I'm calling about an optiplex, they've gotten to the point that they automatically send out a replacement without even bothering to try troubleshooting over the phone -- perhaps it's the account# with a note or standing service ticket, or perhaps it's an internal policy to just replace them without questions for fear of loosing customers. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 04:15:19 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 00:15:19 -0400 Subject: Question about "export DISPLAY" Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to install IBM DB2 (I got the CD at LinuxWorld), and I'm stuck on the following: "You must have X/Windows software capable of rendering a graphical user interface for First Steps to run on your computer. Ensure that you have properly exported your display. For example, export DISPLAY=9.26.163.144:0" # export DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:0 # ./db2exc_LNX_26x86/db2setup DBI1190I db2setup is preparing the DB2 Setup wizard which will guide you through the program setup process. Please wait. The DISPLAY variable is not set properly. Ensure that the DISPLAY variable is set properly and that permissions are set properly to open windows on the display specified, then rerun the command. ...Is 127.0.0.1:0 correct for me to use? I obviously want it to use the same machine. Is there some other things I need to do? Thanks for any help... I am not familiar with the export DISPLAY command... :-) -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 05:09:40 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 08:09:40 +0300 (IDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <445ABBD9.5030703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > With long-reaching, high-level consequences... IBM, Intel and many other > tier-1 brands and companies got burned over one SOB looking for a cheap buck. > I bet the guys who kept the real recipe were laughing themselves to sleep > each night knowing what was coming. Stuff movies are made of, frankly. On the other hand, it shows that the best motherboad brands do not have a limit below which they will not stoop. The reason they all bought those caps was, of course, low, low price. The difference between them and 'good' caps must have been a few pennies. Surely something must have been strange to the procurers at the time. Too cheap to be true ? And yet, someone saved a nickel to lose a dollar ... many of the failed boards were mid to high range level and the price of the caps was a really minor part of their sales price. Nor is this a new or surprising development in the world of counterfeit electronic parts, so the excuse of an 'unexpected development' that 'took procurers by surprise' does not stand up. Draw your own conclusions. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 05:17:31 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 22:17:31 -0700 Subject: Question about "export DISPLAY" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/4/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to install IBM DB2 (I got the CD at LinuxWorld), and I'm > stuck on the following: > > "You must have X/Windows software capable of rendering a graphical > user interface for First Steps to run on your computer. Ensure that > you have properly exported your display. For example, export > DISPLAY=9.26.163.144:0" > > # export DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:0 > > # ./db2exc_LNX_26x86/db2setup > > DBI1190I db2setup is preparing the DB2 Setup wizard which will > guide you through the program setup process. Please > wait. > > The DISPLAY variable is not set properly. Ensure that the DISPLAY > variable is set properly and that permissions are set properly to open > windows on the display specified, then rerun the command. > > ...Is 127.0.0.1:0 correct for me to use? I obviously want it to use > the same machine. Is there some other things I need to do? > > Thanks for any help... I am not familiar with the export DISPLAY command... :-) > > -Steve. Well, if you're running X, you will already have DISPLAY set to something. For instance, on my laptop, where I'm typing this, I see the following: cbbrowne at mobile:~/slony1-engine> echo $DISPLAY Thursday 23:13:29 :0 That value, :0, would be quite suitable. If I changed it to something else, things would probably not turn out so well. The case where you might have to "get fiddly" about it is if you log in as yourself, and then need to have a session running as root have access to that display. Mumble, mumble, xauth, mumble, "AAAHHHH!!!!", thud... If the installation needs to run as root, it's best if you can run an X session _as root_ so no fighting with MIT Magic Cookies or xauth or xhost need get in the way... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 08:27:40 2006 From: al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Alex Marandon) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 10:27:40 +0200 Subject: Question about "export DISPLAY" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060505082740.GA325@alpage.org> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 10:17:31PM -0700, Christopher Browne wrote: > The case where you might have to "get fiddly" about it is if you log > in as yourself, and then need to have a session running as root have > access to that display. Mumble, mumble, xauth, mumble, "AAAHHHH!!!!", > thud... > > If the installation needs to run as root, it's best if you can run an > X session _as root_ so no fighting with MIT Magic Cookies or xauth or > xhost need get in the way... Example of xhost usage, avoiding an X session as root : $ echo $DISPLAY :0.0 $ xhost +local: non-network local connections being added to access control list $ su - Password: # xeyes Error: Can't open display: # export DISPLAY=:0.0 # xeyes (Funny eyes appear on screen :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 13:30:02 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 09:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <50177.207.188.65.194.1146835802.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > On the other hand, it shows that the best motherboad brands do not have > a limit below which they will not stoop. The reason they all bought > those caps was, of course, low, low price. The difference between them > and 'good' caps must have been a few pennies. Surely something must have > been strange to the procurers at the time. > > Too cheap to be true ? And yet, someone saved a nickel to lose a dollar > ... many of the failed boards were mid to high range level and the price > of the caps was a really minor part of their sales price. Nor is this a > new or surprising development in the world of counterfeit electronic > parts, so the excuse of an 'unexpected development' that 'took procurers > by surprise' does not stand up. Draw your own conclusions. > I wouldn't attribute this to simple greed on the part of the manufacturers. Consumers are quite happy to pay bottom dollar for motherboards. We're all part of this 'race to the bottom'. It is astonishing to me that they can sell motherboards for the price that they do - it's very complex technology. In that business arena, you have to watch your component costs, and every penny does count. Some mobo manufacturers 'did the right thing' and replaced the capacitors, even though it cost them millions of dollars - and the repairs nearly bankrupted one mobo company. Mil spec manufacturers have the price margins to test components and assemblies so that something like this isn't likely to happen. But consumer good manufacturers generally do not. That said, I'll bet the mobo manufacturers have some more stringent quality assurance procedures in place after the capacitor crisis. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 13:59:34 2006 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James. Q Li) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 06:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT Perl Programmer In-Reply-To: <1146173469.4881.85.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1146173469.4881.85.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <20060505135934.87502.qmail@web54703.mail.yahoo.com> try posting it on jobs.perl.org if you still need to fill the positions in. Qiang --- Devin Whalen <> wrote: > Hey, > > The company I work for is looking for 1 or 2 Perl programmers. We are a > very small company of 8 people. We develop a web application for POS > companies (Point of Sale or debit and interac machines) as well as > Manufacturing companies. Some of the things we work with are Perl, > FreeBSD, PostgreSQL, Linux, Apache, Oracle, and DB2. Most of our work > deals with a Perl web application that connects up to a PostgreSQL > database on a FreeBSD server. So if you don't know Oracle that doesn't > really matter we just have one client who wanted to run the application > on Sun and connect up to Oracle. > > Here are a list of skills we would like you to have: > Perl, HTML, CSS, Javascript, SQL and be comfortable with working on a > *NIX machine. You don't have to be an expert in all of them or > anything, this is just what our ideal candidate would have. > > We are located at Richmond and Bathurst. > > Send your resume to: > info-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org > > The contact person is Bryan Organ. > > > If you have any questions don't hesitate to drop me a line off list of > course. > > Thanks. > > > > P.S. > > Yes, I have sent this same job posting on this list before. We hired > someone on the list and now we need more people. > > > -- > Devin Whalen > Programmer > Synaptic Vision Inc > Phone-(416) 539-0801 > Fax- (416) 539-8280 > 543 Richmond Street West > Toronto, Ontario > Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 > Box 105 > Home-(416) 653-3982 > > > Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust > www.getfirefox.com > > .-. > /v\ L I N U X > // \\ > /( )\ > ^^-^^ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 14:23:48 2006 From: vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:23:48 -0400 Subject: Fetchmail Question Message-ID: <445B5FF4.8070007@vincefry.com> We're currently looking into replacing Exchange here at work, and one of the solutions we're currently testing is Citadel (citadel.org). Everything is working very well thus far, with one exception. We have several Blackberry users. We currently forward their mail directly from Exchange. OUr guinea pig for this with Citadel is having his forwarded through fetchmail. The only problem with this is when he opens his mail client (Thunderbird), his messages are marked as read. Here's the fethcmailrc: poll 127.0.0.1 with proto pop3 uidl user "user1" there with password "*****" is user1-+D8dom/p7m7rxkFu3R+SStHuzzzSOjJt at public.gmane.org keep smtphost "/usr/local/citadel/lmtp-unfiltered.socket" From what I understand, the uidl command along with proto pop3 should keep the unread flag. Is this correct? Any suggestions on how to correct this? -- ERROR 666: Armageddon detected. Please restart universe and try again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 14:47:27 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:47:27 -0400 Subject: Fetchmail Question In-Reply-To: <445B5FF4.8070007-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <445B5FF4.8070007@vincefry.com> Message-ID: <445B657F.4050500@utoronto.ca> Vince Fry wrote: > We're currently looking into replacing Exchange here at work, and one of > the solutions we're currently testing is Citadel (citadel.org). > > Everything is working very well thus far, with one exception. > > We have several Blackberry users. We currently forward their mail > directly from Exchange. OUr guinea pig for this with Citadel is having > his forwarded through fetchmail. The only problem with this is when he > opens his mail client (Thunderbird), his messages are marked as read. > > Here's the fethcmailrc: > > poll 127.0.0.1 with proto pop3 > uidl > user "user1" there with password "*****" is user1-+D8dom/p7m7rxkFu3R+SStHuzzzSOjJt at public.gmane.org > keep smtphost "/usr/local/citadel/lmtp-unfiltered.socket" > > From what I understand, the uidl command along with proto pop3 should > keep the unread flag. Is this correct? Any suggestions on how to correct > this? I've never had a problem with read flags and fetchmail. That being said, I went with the first configuration I came up with that actually worked. I have a few extra pieces that may or may not be necessary -- I haven't read anything more than my local fetchmailrc file *that works* (on Debian stable): user 'me' there with password '**' is 'me' here options fetchall The two parts I've got are "here" and "options". I'm trying to remember what happens without the fetchall option, whether mail was marked as read or not -- I had it setup like that once before I got a stable configuration. Hope my markedly more rudimentary configuration can shed a little light on your problem? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 18:50:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 14:50:23 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060505022743.GC21295-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060505185023.GA2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 10:27:43PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > nicely done! in fact this is precisely my situation. nice detecting - > though sorry ot hear it. My box did start up again (had to chill out I > guess) so if necessary I will use it a bit in this crippled condition. > nonetheless am now in the parket for a new Socket A motherboard with AGP -- > anyone got one lying around? they don't seem to have them in stores > anymore. I bought an A7N8X-E-DX of someone a few weeks ago, that had posted on this list that they had 3 of them. Maybe he still has one or two left. Certainly one of the best Socket A boards ever made. His web site certainly still lists him having 2 of them: http://www.mineallmeyn.com/forsale/ Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 18:52:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 14:52:15 -0400 Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060505185215.GB2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 08:09:40AM +0300, Peter wrote: > On the other hand, it shows that the best motherboad brands do not have > a limit below which they will not stoop. The reason they all bought > those caps was, of course, low, low price. The difference between them > and 'good' caps must have been a few pennies. Surely something must have > been strange to the procurers at the time. > > Too cheap to be true ? And yet, someone saved a nickel to lose a dollar > ... many of the failed boards were mid to high range level and the price > of the caps was a really minor part of their sales price. Nor is this a > new or surprising development in the world of counterfeit electronic > parts, so the excuse of an 'unexpected development' that 'took procurers > by surprise' does not stand up. Draw your own conclusions. Of course most board makers probably buy their parts through various distributers who may deal with multiple sources. Who knows how many places a part goes through before it is used. They may not even have known who made the parts they were using, they just knew they had the right specs, and the price was right. Maybe the distributer just made good money on them. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 18:57:00 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 14:57:00 -0400 Subject: Question about "export DISPLAY" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060505185700.GC2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 12:15:19AM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm trying to install IBM DB2 (I got the CD at LinuxWorld), and I'm > stuck on the following: > > "You must have X/Windows software capable of rendering a graphical > user interface for First Steps to run on your computer. Ensure that > you have properly exported your display. For example, export > DISPLAY=9.26.163.144:0" > > # export DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:0 > > # ./db2exc_LNX_26x86/db2setup > > DBI1190I db2setup is preparing the DB2 Setup wizard which will > guide you through the program setup process. Please > wait. > > The DISPLAY variable is not set properly. Ensure that the DISPLAY > variable is set properly and that permissions are set properly to open > windows on the display specified, then rerun the command. > > ...Is 127.0.0.1:0 correct for me to use? I obviously want it to use > the same machine. Is there some other things I need to do? > > Thanks for any help... I am not familiar with the export DISPLAY command... > :-) Usually setting DISPLAY manually is unnecesary. If you want to switch to root and have X still, I prefer to do: ssh -X root at localhost There are also things like gtksu and such which allow you to su to root and retain X access. Otherwise you can set DISPLAY manually along with pointing XAUTHORITY to the .Xauthority of the home dir of the user logged into X. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 21:25:16 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 00:25:16 +0300 (IDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: <20060505185215.GB2836-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060504134632.GA16421@utoronto.ca> <27974.66.135.96.43.1146754866.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060504171235.GA21295@utoronto.ca> <15092.66.135.96.43.1146767224.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <20060505022743.GC21295@utoronto.ca> <50907.207.188.65.194.1146796788.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <445ABBD9.5030703@alteeve.com> <20060505185215.GB2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Believe me, the people who buy the parts *know*. The engineers who set up production *know*, at the latest at the QC stations in the factory where sniffing out noise in the onboard smpsus is just one of the random tests they do. This is what their job consists of. Someone decided to save 5 cents and probably net a bonus. Either that, or the chemical disaster was a 'timebomb' and started causing trouble after too many hours to be noticed. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 21:45:39 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: oh, man... WAS: Re:is my power supply failing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060505214539.5691.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Peter wrote: > Believe me, the people who buy the parts *know*. The > engineers who set > up production *know*, at the latest at the QC > stations in the factory > where sniffing out noise in the onboard smpsus is > just one of the random > tests they do. This is what their job consists of. > Someone decided to > save 5 cents and probably net a bonus. Either that, > or the chemical > disaster was a 'timebomb' and started causing > trouble after too many > hours to be noticed. The timebomb situation appears to be the case, capacitors that did work, but had less than half the normal usefull life. Here are some articles that go into detail about what happened: http://www.burtonsys.com/bad_BP6/story1.html http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30328/article.html Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri May 5 18:14:50 2006 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 14:14:50 -0400 Subject: Fetchmail Question Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51AEBA1D@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> If you use fetchmail to mark messages as unread will they not be downloaded again the next time since they are still unread? Why not use procmail? You can forward email to the blackberry easily. A second option would be to use the RIM web client to collect the mail of your server. Just a couple of suggestions. Regards, Wil McGilvery General Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 905-363-1600 905-363-4297 Ext. 248 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 905-363-1194? FAX www.LynchDigital.com (Need help? Email us at networksupport-SrmdgkHaRgH0d+JFtaHRRQ at public.gmane.org) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Vince Fry Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 10:24 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Fetchmail Question We're currently looking into replacing Exchange here at work, and one of the solutions we're currently testing is Citadel (citadel.org). Everything is working very well thus far, with one exception. We have several Blackberry users. We currently forward their mail directly from Exchange. OUr guinea pig for this with Citadel is having his forwarded through fetchmail. The only problem with this is when he opens his mail client (Thunderbird), his messages are marked as read. Here's the fethcmailrc: poll 127.0.0.1 with proto pop3 uidl user "user1" there with password "*****" is user1-+D8dom/p7m7rxkFu3R+SStHuzzzSOjJt at public.gmane.org keep smtphost "/usr/local/citadel/lmtp-unfiltered.socket" From what I understand, the uidl command along with proto pop3 should keep the unread flag. Is this correct? Any suggestions on how to correct this? -- ERROR 666: Armageddon detected. Please restart universe and try again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 02:07:15 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 22:07:15 -0400 Subject: Plone Foundation Seeking Google Summer of Code Student Applicants Message-ID: <200605052207.16977.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> I am posting this on behalf of Martin Aspeli who does not subscribe to this list. Please do not respond to this message on this list or to me. Contact information is contained below. The only LUG mailing list to which I subscribe is this one so if you subscribe to other LUG lists or know other places where you can reach students, by all means, please forward this message. ################################################ The scoop --------- The Plone Foundation is a mentoring organisation in Google's Summer of Code 2006. STUDENTS - you can get a stipend of US$4,500 to work on cool Plone projects! That's right, $4,500 in your pocket, a detailed evaluation of your work that's guaranteed to be read by Google, personalised mentoring by core Plone members, and the knowledge that you are helping the Plone community evolve and grow. There's one catch - YOUR APPLICATION MUST BE SUBMITTED THIS WEEKEND! The deadline for student applications is Monday, May 8th at 5pm, Pacific Standard Time. What could I be doing? ---------------------- We want you to work on something that interests you, and something that can benefit the Plone community. We have grouped a number of PLIPs (Plone Improvement Proposals) together here - all of these are potential projects: More details, and more ideas can be found here: Some highlights include a Zope3-ready transforms engine, better support for tagging and personal annotations, content visualisation, improved large file handling and Office document integration and better inbound and outbound syndication support. If you think you have a great idea that's not on the lists above, we'd love to hear about it as well. There is a mailing list for further support, to which you can subscribe at: . How does it work? ----------------- Please refer to for the details. o You must be a student enrolled in full-time education (undergrad, Masters, PhD) on May 8th 2006, and you need to be eligible to work in the country where you reside (so that Google can legally pay you). o You must submit the application THIS WEEKEND. You can submit several applications, but you will only be accepted for one. From the FAQ: """Your application should include the following: your project proposal, why you'd like to execute on this particular project, and the reason you're the best individual to do so. Your proposal should also include details of your academic, industry, and/or open source development experience, and other details as you see fit. An explanation of your development methodology is a good idea, as well. We've included a template on the application screen to help you prepare your abstract. Only use this template if it is helpful to you. """ o You sign up here: . o Once your application is submitted, we have until May 22nd to review your application, and assign a mentor to you if the application is successful. o There is a mid-term review, accompanied by part of your payment, by the end of June, and a final payment and review by September 5th. We realise this is short notice, but that's the way it works sometimes. We would STRONGLY encourage you to submit an application now, and let us know about any special circumstances that we may need to take into consideration. We are here to work with you, to help you through the process, and to ensure you get the most out of the learning experience. o If you need to talk to someone about your application, please either email me at , or (preferably) the Google-SoC Plone list and we will help you as much as we can. Is this for me? --------------- o You don't have to be a Plone guru to participate! This is a chance to learn and grow in the community. o If your code is good and addresses a common need, it may well become part of the core Plone distribution or a "blessed" add-on product. The existing contributors can attest that this gives you a great deal of respect, and future opportunities. o You should probably know how to program ... and be willing to do so in Python. Note that Python is very easy to learn if you know other languages. o Above all, you must be bright, enthusiastic and treat this opportunity responsibly. Google do not want their money squandered, but they are all too happy to fund students with a genuine interest in open source and a strong desire to learn, grow and contribute. If you show that you are serious, the Plone community will give you all the support you need. o Existing Plone contributors who are students are welcome to submit proposals as well! -- Martin Aspeli -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 12:22:28 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 08:22:28 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <4459441D.7080002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> <4459441D.7080002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1146918148.30003.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I sent a complaint to their contact page explaining that I do not support illegal monopolies and asked them why a government agency supports a convicted monopolist but not Linux/Firefox. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 20:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Michael Newman wrote: > >> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > >> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > >> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > >> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > > > I just tried the site in the latest version of Firefox on Windows XP. It > > worked just fine (though they did show a warning that I might receive > > script errors, and to hit the "cancel" button when I do). > > > > Looks like they may indeed be blocking Linux. > > > > You think that's bad, the Canadian Blood Services site used to block > > anything that wasn't IE running on Windows! > > You'd think that after that tainted blood scandal, they'd avoid > something that lets in so many viruses. ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 13:01:25 2006 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 09:01:25 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146685744.9747.2.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Bruce Byfield has an article about "Canadian online census discriminates against FOSS" in NewsForge http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/06/05/04/233250.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 16:12:01 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 12:12:01 -0400 Subject: Question about "export DISPLAY" In-Reply-To: <20060505185700.GC2836-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060505185700.GC2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: The simplest suggestion worked... just logging into session as root. I got further in the installation, but then encountered another error... look into that one later. Thanks for everyone's help. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 16:45:42 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 06 May 2006 12:45:42 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146920485.13752.1.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: "J. Schaap" writes: > Bruce Byfield has an article about > "Canadian online census discriminates against FOSS" > in NewsForge > http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/06/05/04/233250.shtml Perhaps this is an opportunity to raise awareness of these issues. We could organize a protest. On May 16 (Census day), instead of dutifully returning our Census forms we could gather outside a federal government office in Toronto (or offices across the country) and toss our census forms into a large blue box. Given that it's an offence under the Statistics Act to refuse to take part in the Census (punishable by a $500 fine or up to 3 months imprisonment), I suggest this be a symbolic protest only. Throw out the envelopes only or fill in the Census on-line (using that other OS) and throw out the whole thing. To get any publicity, we would probably have to organize at least a couple of hundred people. Anyone interested? Can we do this in time? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 16:46:59 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 12:46:59 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <445CD303.2040400@utoronto.ca> Tim Writer wrote: > "J. Schaap" writes: > >> Bruce Byfield has an article about >> "Canadian online census discriminates against FOSS" >> in NewsForge >> http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/06/05/04/233250.shtml > > Perhaps this is an opportunity to raise awareness of these issues. We could > organize a protest. On May 16 (Census day), instead of dutifully returning > our Census forms we could gather outside a federal government office in > Toronto (or offices across the country) and toss our census forms into a > large blue box. > > Given that it's an offence under the Statistics Act to refuse to take part in > the Census (punishable by a $500 fine or up to 3 months imprisonment), I > suggest this be a symbolic protest only. Throw out the envelopes only or fill > in the Census on-line (using that other OS) and throw out the whole thing. > > To get any publicity, we would probably have to organize at least a couple of > hundred people. Anyone interested? Can we do this in time? Don't see why not. People also might like to know that Lockheed Martin and IBM have contracts with Statistics Canada to supply hardware, and software. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 17:35:33 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:35:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] 2 IBM xSeries 345 servers for sale, loaded. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All right folks, last call. (I won't pester again, I promise. :) ) $700 for the Single Xeon/2GB box, and $1200 for the Dual Xeon/4GB box. Any takers? -- Vlad On 5/2/06, Vlad wrote: > Greetings all, > > I'm planning on moving soon, so I need to shed some gear - I > want less rackmount gear at my place. ;) > > Anyhow. I've got two IBM xSeries 345s (Cisco branded, I'll > explain below) up for grabs. They're fully Linux-friendly, to the > point where VMware ESX Server can even read their serial numbers as it > boots up. Pictures are available at http://www.umbravia.org/ce.html > > 1x Cisco CE-7305-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $900 > * One 2.4GHz HT Xeon, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > * 2GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs ( 4x 512MB) > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > 1x Cisco CE-7325-K9 / IBM xSeries 345 $1500 > * Two 2.4GHz HT Xeons, 400MHz FSB, Socket-603 > * 4GB PC2100 ECC Registered DDR DIMMs (4x 1GB) > * Bootable CF adapter instead of floppy drive > > These are 2U IBM servers, but sold by Cisco as Content > Engines. (And prices marked up accordingly.) The only difference is > that they're designed to boot off a built-in CF slot, and have a green > Cisco bezel on the front. > > They have been flashed with latest IBM BIOS and IPMI code. > Servers have been used about six months on and off. All original IBM > parts. Green Cisco bezel on front. They do NOT come with hard disks, > or disk trays. However, I do have a Fujitsu 73GB/10k RPM U320 SCSI > disk up for grabs for $150, that works fine in 'em, if there's a need > for one. > > I'm flexible on the pricing, make me a reasonable offer. > (Although I'll note that as stand-alone IBM parts, they're worth more > than their sums.) They're available for pickup from downtown Toronto. > > More detailed specs: > > Back of server: > * 2x Intel PRO/1000 MT GbE ports > * 1x VHDCI SCSI U160 connector > * 2x PCI-X/100MHz Low-Profile slots > (1 is ZCR-capable with an IBM ServeRAID 6i+, sold separately ;) ) > * 2x PCI-X/133MHz Full-Profile/Full-Length slots > * 1x PCI Full-Profile/Half-Length slot > * 2x USB 1.1 ports in the back > Front of server: > * 1x 24x Slim CD-ROM drive > * 1x USB 1.1 port in the front > * 6x U320 SCSI hot-swap drive bays, accept IBM trays > Misc: > * 2x Hot-swap 350W PSUs > * 1x 128MB SanDisk Industrial Grade CF (Cisco approved) > * 1x Rail kit > > > P.S.: Although not quite so Linux-friendly, I've also got a Cisco > 2801 ISR running IOS 12.4(3) Adv. Enterprise Svcs. up for grabs: > $1700, but quite flexible. > > -- > end > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 6 22:25:39 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 18:25:39 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146918148.30003.2.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <44591606.9040100@gmail.com> <4459441D.7080002@rogers.com> <1146918148.30003.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <445D2263.1080306@rogers.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >I sent a complaint to their contact page explaining that I do not >support illegal monopolies and asked them why a government agency >supports a convicted monopolist but not Linux/Firefox. >RickT >http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > I sent a complaint to their contact page about the intrusive nature of their questions and the fact that once again I was "lucky" enough to receive the "long form". If I was as lucky in the lotto as I am at receiving "randomly" the "long form" every 5 years I'd be a millionaire a LONG time ago. Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 06:30:49 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 02:30:49 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146679494.7416.14.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <200605070230.49350.marc@lijour.net> On May 3, 2006 02:04 pm, J. Schaap wrote: > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? > I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. The fact is that the government is wasting money by processing the paper form instead of the electronic one. The last page is accepting comments. This is where I asked why I should buy Microsoft products to do something as simple as answering civic questions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 13:10:39 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 09:10:39 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <200605070230.49350.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <200605070230.49350.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <445DF1CF.7050706@utoronto.ca> Marc Lijour wrote: > On May 3, 2006 02:04 pm, J. Schaap wrote: >> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. >> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements >> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with >> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? >> Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? >> I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. > > The fact is that the government is wasting money by processing the paper form > instead of the electronic one. Not all people have a computer, nor do many know how to use one. The thing to do would be to gradually phase paper out by putting a checkbox or something on the census saying that next time you will use an online version. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 15:51:52 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 11:51:52 -0400 Subject: Kernel and hardware detection Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to create a Knoppix remaster. Unfortunately, Knoppix 4.0.2 has some serious issues with some PCI *hardware* modems (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21064&highlight=detect+pci+modem), and sure enough my USR PCI hardware modem is not detected. I'm using the book "Hacking Knoppix" and it shows details on installing and configuring a different kernel in your remaster. I was thinking of getting one of the Kanotix kernels (a Knoppix remaster which DOES detect my modem properly). Can someone tell me if this is the correct action to take... basically is hardware detecting functions contained in the kernel?? I'm using VMware to remaster, so I don't mind doing a little experimenting if I am on the right track. Thanks for any help! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 16:53:55 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Updates... Message-ID: <20060507165355.72714.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note for the next TLUG meeting this coming Tuesday, there will be some free stuff available, (leftovers from the Linux World Canada show), on a first come first serve basis (Ubuntu CD-ROMs, Linux Journal magazines, and likely a few other goodies). As well, when I went through the stuff that went back to my office I found a fleece lined hooded sweatshirt, that someone obviously forgot. If this belongs to you, let me know and I can bring it to the next TLUG meeting (or if you prefer the next Unix Unanimous, or NewTLUG meeting). What I will want to know (to make sure I am returning the item to the right person) is what colour is the sweatshirt? Colin McGregor. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From papking-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 17:02:57 2006 From: papking-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 17:02:57 +0000 GMT Subject: Updates... In-Reply-To: <20060507165355.72714.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060507165355.72714.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <300355729-1147021946-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-8549-@engine69> V2hhdCBhcmUgdGhlIHRvcGljcyBvZiB0aGUgbWVldGluZz8NCiAgIA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFs IE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogQ29saW4gTWNHcmVnb3IgPGNvbGlubWMxNTFAcm9nZXJzLmNv bT4NCkRhdGU6IFN1biwgNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAxMjo1Mzo1NSANClRvOiJ0bHVnQHNzLm9yZyIgPHRs dWdAc3Mub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogW1RMVUddOiBVcGRhdGVzLi4uDQoNCkp1c3QgdG8gbm90ZSBm b3IgdGhlIG5leHQgVExVRyBtZWV0aW5nIHRoaXMgY29taW5nDQpUdWVzZGF5LCB0aGVyZSB3aWxs IGJlIHNvbWUgZnJlZSBzdHVmZiBhdmFpbGFibGUsDQoobGVmdG92ZXJzIGZyb20gdGhlIExpbnV4 IFdvcmxkIENhbmFkYSBzaG93KSwgb24gYQ0KZmlyc3QgY29tZSBmaXJzdCBzZXJ2ZSBiYXNpcyAo VWJ1bnR1IENELVJPTXMsIExpbnV4DQpKb3VybmFsIG1hZ2F6aW5lcywgYW5kIGxpa2VseSBhIGZl dyBvdGhlciBnb29kaWVzKS4NCg0KQXMgd2VsbCwgd2hlbiBJIHdlbnQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgc3R1 ZmYgdGhhdCB3ZW50IGJhY2sNCnRvIG15IG9mZmljZSBJIGZvdW5kIGEgZmxlZWNlIGxpbmVkIGhv b2RlZCBzd2VhdHNoaXJ0LA0KdGhhdCBzb21lb25lIG9idmlvdXNseSBmb3Jnb3QuIElmIHRoaXMg YmVsb25ncyB0byB5b3UsDQpsZXQgbWUga25vdyBhbmQgSSBjYW4gYnJpbmcgaXQgdG8gdGhlIG5l eHQgVExVRw0KbWVldGluZyAob3IgaWYgeW91IHByZWZlciB0aGUgbmV4dCBVbml4IFVuYW5pbW91 cywgb3INCk5ld1RMVUcgbWVldGluZykuIFdoYXQgSSB3aWxsIHdhbnQgdG8ga25vdyAodG8gbWFr ZQ0Kc3VyZSBJIGFtIHJldHVybmluZyB0aGUgaXRlbSB0byB0aGUgcmlnaHQgcGVyc29uKSBpcw0K d2hhdCBjb2xvdXIgaXMgdGhlIHN3ZWF0c2hpcnQ/DQoNCkNvbGluIE1jR3JlZ29yLg0KLS0NClRo ZSBUb3JvbnRvIExpbnV4IFVzZXJzIEdyb3VwLiAgICAgIE1lZXRpbmdzOiBodHRwOi8vdGx1Zy5z cy5vcmcNClRMVUcgcmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0IGJl bG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMNCkhvdyB0byBVTlNVQlNDUklCRTogaHR0cDovL3RsdWcuc3Mub3JnL3N1 YnNjcmliZS5zaHRtbA0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 17:27:53 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 13:27:53 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <445DF1CF.7050706-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <200605070230.49350.marc@lijour.net> <445DF1CF.7050706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200605071327.53873.marc@lijour.net> On May 7, 2006 09:10 am, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > On May 3, 2006 02:04 pm, J. Schaap wrote: > >> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > >> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > >> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > >> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > >> Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? > >> I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. > > > > The fact is that the government is wasting money by processing the paper > > form instead of the electronic one. > > Not all people have a computer, nor do many know how to use one. The > thing to do would be to gradually phase paper out by putting a checkbox > or something on the census saying that next time you will use an online > version. > > Jamon In a country where the internet is accessible by a huge number of people it would be a sensible move. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 18:16:04 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Updates... In-Reply-To: <300355729-1147021946-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-8549-@engine69> References: <300355729-1147021946-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-8549-@engine69> Message-ID: <20060507181604.67765.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Paul Apking wrote: > What are the topics of the meeting? Something great, but it is a surprise :-) . Truth is I don't know. What I do know is that there will be a group of us going for diner at the Pho Hung 350 Spadina Avenue at 6:00 PM before the meeting, and everyone is welcome to come along. Colin McGregor > -----Original Message----- > From: Colin McGregor > Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:53:55 > To:"tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Subject: [TLUG]: Updates... > > Just to note for the next TLUG meeting this coming > Tuesday, there will be some free stuff available, > (leftovers from the Linux World Canada show), on a > first come first serve basis (Ubuntu CD-ROMs, Linux > Journal magazines, and likely a few other goodies). > > As well, when I went through the stuff that went > back > to my office I found a fleece lined hooded > sweatshirt, > that someone obviously forgot. If this belongs to > you, > let me know and I can bring it to the next TLUG > meeting (or if you prefer the next Unix Unanimous, > or > NewTLUG meeting). What I will want to know (to make > sure I am returning the item to the right person) is > what colour is the sweatshirt? > > Colin McGregor. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > N???'?????T????.????)??m?????,???L????z?l.)???)?? t?/ > ????????4r?n?{? hP?? ? !????n??(???? ?&??f -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 20:10:58 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 07 May 2006 16:10:58 -0400 Subject: [NTL] Addendum to MJD talks email In-Reply-To: <445E1231.5010509-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <445E1231.5010509@pobox.com> Message-ID: Richard Dice writes: > The Stephen E. Quinlan building has the address: 70 The Pond Road, > Toronto, Ontario, M3J 3M6 > > I have yet to be able to convince Mapquest or Google Maps give me a > correct map location for this building, though. Directions are easy, though. >From the 401: go north on keele go left (west) on the Pond. >From the "north": take 407 or 7 (or something) to keele south on keele right (west) on the Pond. The parking is a big parking lot/building on the right (north) side of the pond. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 21:37:00 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 17:37:00 -0400 Subject: Free Software and Open Source Symposium Message-ID: <1e55af990605071437udd9b2b5je32681b6591b51df@mail.gmail.com> http://cs.senecac.on.ca/fsoss/2006/ At today's Ruby meeting [1] Bob Boyczuk, the chair for Seneca College's Free Software and Open Source Symposium [2], talked a bit about their upcoming fifth event. I wanted to write a quick note to the group to remind you all. I noticed via email archives that some people attended last year (and presumably previous years). With some advanced notice maybe there can be a good showing at this year's event. This year, much more early effort is being done to find individuals, user groups and companies who are involved with open source software. Also, there are some really excellent workshops. More info can be found at on their website. [1] http://trug.ca [2] http://cs.senecac.on.ca/fsoss/2006/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 21:48:44 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 17:48:44 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <445CD303.2040400-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445CD303.2040400@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Jamon Camisso wrote: > Tim Writer wrote: >> "J. Schaap" writes: >> >>> Bruce Byfield has an article about "Canadian online census >>> discriminates against FOSS" >>> in NewsForge >>> http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/06/05/04/233250.shtml >> >> Perhaps this is an opportunity to raise awareness of these issues. We >> could >> organize a protest. On May 16 (Census day), instead of dutifully >> returning >> our Census forms we could gather outside a federal government office in >> Toronto (or offices across the country) and toss our census forms into a >> large blue box. >> >> Given that it's an offence under the Statistics Act to refuse to take >> part in >> the Census (punishable by a $500 fine or up to 3 months imprisonment), I >> suggest this be a symbolic protest only. Throw out the envelopes only >> or fill >> in the Census on-line (using that other OS) and throw out the whole >> thing. >> >> To get any publicity, we would probably have to organize at least a >> couple of >> hundred people. Anyone interested? Can we do this in time? > > Don't see why not. People also might like to know that Lockheed Martin > and IBM have contracts with Statistics Canada to supply hardware, and > software. I agree that something needs to be said/done. However, I'd bet that most of the people on this list have day jobs and are pretty busy people so it may be difficult to coax them away for some time. Perhaps a petition or simply encouraging people to voice their complaints would be sufficient? Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 22:11:47 2006 From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 18:11:47 -0400 Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ Message-ID: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> have I been asleep at the switch? (I know that's a dangerous question ask, no need to answer) "Recently, the domain name registrar GoDaddy, used by many domain resellers, switched its domain parking host from Apache to a Microsoft server. GoDaddy has 4.5 Million parked domains, and this resulted in a 5% market-share shift from Apache to Microsoft IIS in the Netcraft report. Parked sites don't have content, so this is only an "appearance" change. It's said that Microsoft offers the largest domain registrars a lot of money to do this. And of course figures influence managers, whether they are real or not." http://technocrat.net/d/2006/4/10/2276 can anyone shed any more light on what's happening here? thx. -peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 22:19:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 01:19:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: <445E70A3.6030809-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 May 2006, PW Armstrong wrote: > have I been asleep at the switch? (I know that's a dangerous question ask, > no need to answer) > > "Recently, the domain name registrar GoDaddy, used by many domain resellers, > switched its domain parking host from Apache to a Microsoft server. GoDaddy > has 4.5 Million parked domains, and this resulted in a 5% market-share shift > from Apache to Microsoft IIS in the Netcraft report. Parked sites don't have > content, so this is only an "appearance" change. It's said that Microsoft > offers the largest domain registrars a lot of money to do this. And of course > figures influence managers, whether they are real or not." > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/4/10/2276 Old news. This was on Slashdot and on this list. They switched a server because it sees low load presumably. This resulted in a lot of parked domains switching from Apache to W* servers, and this influenced the statistics which clueless people consult when making decisions. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 22:21:42 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 15:21:42 -0700 Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: <445E70A3.6030809-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/7/06, PW Armstrong wrote: > > > have I been asleep at the switch? (I know that's a dangerous question > ask, no need to answer) > > "Recently, the domain name registrar GoDaddy, used by many domain > resellers, switched its domain parking host from Apache to a Microsoft > server. GoDaddy has 4.5 Million parked domains, and this resulted in a > 5% market-share shift from Apache to Microsoft IIS in the Netcraft > report. Parked sites don't have content, so this is only an "appearance" > change. It's said that Microsoft offers the largest domain registrars a > lot of money to do this. And of course figures influence managers, > whether they are real or not." > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/4/10/2276 > > can anyone shed any more light on what's happening here? If Microsoft threw a few million$ in GoDaddy'$ direction for this, it wouldn't be an outrageous cost for either for this. It's a not overly expensive way for Microsoft to put a thumb on the scale for some Internet statistics. Is it fundamentally important? These are parked domains; they are hardly of great importance on the Internet, so the answer is "probably not." It is a cheap way to buy a bit of (perhaps vacuous) prestige... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun May 7 23:25:05 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 19:25:05 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445CD303.2040400@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <445E81D1.50503@telly.org> Tom Watts wrote: > > I agree that something needs to be said/done. However, I'd bet that > most of the people on this list have day jobs and are pretty busy > people so it may be difficult to coax them away for some time. > Perhaps a petition or simply encouraging people to voice their > complaints would be sufficient? CLUE is going to try some strategy in Ottawa, we're just not sure yet what's the best approach. Anyone who's interested in getting involved in an organized attempt to voice this issue is invited to get in touch. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 00:46:41 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 00:46:41 +0000 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine Message-ID: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> Hello Now that Fedora Core 5 is no longer a "testing" suite, I decided to attempt an upgrade of my system, and found after a couple of attempts that its python-based Anaconda script dies just after making a list of packages to upgrade on my current system (FC3). The docs said that it was supposed to auto-detect the installation (which it did), and then upgrade if I select "upgrade" (which I did). The error message tells me that the error is likely due to a bug. I downloaded this distro today from fedora.redhat.com. Not sure why it would die like that. Just a heads-up to anyone thinking of installing this thing on an existing FC system. The last thing I want to do is wipe out what I have and install fresh, after all the work I went to in getting the software and hardware to work together. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 01:09:44 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 21:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50570.207.188.65.194.1147050584.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > >> "Recently, the domain name registrar GoDaddy, used by many domain >> resellers, switched its domain parking host from Apache to a Microsoft >> server. GoDaddy has 4.5 Million parked domains, and this resulted in a >> 5% market-share shift from Apache to Microsoft IIS in the Netcraft >> report. Parked sites don't have content, so this is only an "appearance" >> change. It's said that Microsoft offers the largest domain registrars a >> lot of money to do this. And of course figures influence managers, >> whether they are real or not." >> http://technocrat.net/d/2006/4/10/2276 >> Microsoft could advertise that they support the most sites that have no content and that no one accesses. It would be interesting to see how they characterize this as a challenging assignment. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 03:30:30 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 20:30:30 -0700 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <1146679494.7416.14.camel-84nHcp+giqQsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: On 5/3/06, J. Schaap wrote: > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? > I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. What seems even more dumb about this is that the application is one that IN NO WAY requires "sophisticated" components such as client-side Java. I imagine I only got the short form (it asks little more than name, date of birth, and "mother tongue"), which represents a simple sort of CGI that could be done without any "minimum requirements." I don't think the problem is merely a "blocking Linux" one; it would appear that they are making generally incompetent technology choices. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 05:34:06 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 01:34:06 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 5/7/06, Paul King wrote: > Hello > > Now that Fedora Core 5 is no longer a "testing" suite, I decided to > attempt an upgrade of my system, and found after a couple of attempts > that its python-based Anaconda script dies just after making a list of > packages to upgrade on my current system (FC3). The docs said that it > was supposed to auto-detect the installation (which it did), and then > upgrade if I select "upgrade" (which I did). The error message tells me > that the error is likely due to a bug. > > I downloaded this distro today from fedora.redhat.com. Not sure why it > would die like that. > > Just a heads-up to anyone thinking of installing this thing on an > existing FC system. The last thing I want to do is wipe out what I have > and install fresh, after all the work I went to in getting the software > and hardware to work together. > > Paul King Have you tried upgrading to FC4 (if that is possible) first? Maybe it needs a single-step incremental dist-upgrade. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 11:11:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 07:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 10 May 2006 Message-ID: <20060508111141.1389.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 10 May 2006, in room BA 5256 of the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 11:56:35 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 07:56:35 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> On Mon, 2006-05-08 at 01:34 -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Have you tried upgrading to FC4 (if that is possible) first? Maybe it > needs a single-step incremental dist-upgrade. > > -Steve. Just did it -- and no, the error is still the same. The error says that it is most likely a bug with their script, and it wanted me to save the error and send it off to RedHat. However, the dialog provided no way to save the error. And you couldn't select the text and dump it in an application. I think soon I will be moving to Debian anyway. It seems as though (and I hadn't noticed until now) RedHat now wants me to purchase "entitlements" if I want updates to the OS. And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; in fact there is not much mention of Fedora at all. I get the feeling now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 12:17:37 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 08:17:37 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... Message-ID: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Apart from the "entitlements" mentioned earlier, I noticed that Fedora 4 decided to place the entire OpenOffice distribution -- all 250 megs of it -- under /etc, of all places. This seems to be new for FC4. You gotta wonder about who writes the install scripts... Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 13:17:29 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 09:17:29 -0400 Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1147094249.24620.56.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 15:21 -0700, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/7/06, PW Armstrong wrote: > > > > > > have I been asleep at the switch? (I know that's a dangerous question > > ask, no need to answer) > > > > "Recently, the domain name registrar GoDaddy, used by many domain > > resellers, switched its domain parking host from Apache to a Microsoft > > server. GoDaddy has 4.5 Million parked domains, and this resulted in a > > 5% market-share shift from Apache to Microsoft IIS in the Netcraft > > report. Parked sites don't have content, so this is only an "appearance" > > change. It's said that Microsoft offers the largest domain registrars a > > lot of money to do this. And of course figures influence managers, > > whether they are real or not." > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/4/10/2276 > > > > can anyone shed any more light on what's happening here? > > If Microsoft threw a few million$ in GoDaddy'$ direction for this, it > wouldn't be an outrageous cost for either for this. > > It's a not overly expensive way for Microsoft to put a thumb on the > scale for some Internet statistics. > > Is it fundamentally important? These are parked domains; they are > hardly of great importance on the Internet, so the answer is "probably > not." > > It is a cheap way to buy a bit of (perhaps vacuous) prestige... I think it is vacuous. IIS lags behind Apache by a full 48% in actual real sites and 37% in total domains, parked or otherwise. I think it's easy for them to pay a few percentages at this stage to make the change, but every percentage will cost more and more. In my view, MS has changed their marketing. I think they have saturated print media and are looking to combat Open Source in any way that they can. How does one stop a grass roots competitor? Perhaps this is unprecedented in marketing. That would explain the sponsorship of MS only user groups, the free events that MS is sponsoring and the Microsoft Across America truck (http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/acrossamerica/). They spend an absurd amount of money on marketing and are probably down to using unorthodox methods. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 13:46:37 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:46:37 -0400 Subject: virtualization at KWLUG Message-ID: <200605080946.38861.interlug@weait.net> This is an early announcement for the KWLUG meeting on Monday 05 June 2006. You won't want to miss this one. We are thrilled to announce that Jim Elliott from IBM Canada will be our special guest speaker. His abstract: "Virtualization is one of the big topics in IT today. But implementations of virtualization environments for operating systems (aka hypervisors) have been around since the late 1960s! "This presentation will provide an overview of the "w5" of virtualization, including virtualization solutions as they exist today across various hardware platforms. The presentation will focus on the Xen Open Source environment." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 13:47:33 2006 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (Bill Traynor) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:47:33 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 5/8/06, Paul King wrote: > Apart from the "entitlements" mentioned earlier, I noticed that Fedora 4 > decided to place the entire OpenOffice distribution -- all 250 megs of > it -- under /etc, of all places. This seems to be new for FC4. You gotta > wonder about who writes the install scripts... FC4 puts Ooo in /etc to to enable use by all system users. This is so third party tools like testtool can locate the install. A single user install will put it in /home of said user. > > Paul King > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 14:32:12 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 07:32:12 -0700 Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: <1147094249.24620.56.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> <1147094249.24620.56.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/06, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > It is a cheap way to buy a bit of (perhaps vacuous) prestige... > > I think it is vacuous. IIS lags behind Apache by a full 48% in actual > real sites and 37% in total domains, parked or otherwise. I think it's > easy for them to pay a few percentages at this stage to make the change, > but every percentage will cost more and more. Agreed, 100%. > In my view, MS has changed their marketing. I think they have saturated > print media and are looking to combat Open Source in any way that they > can. How does one stop a grass roots competitor? Perhaps this is > unprecedented in marketing. That would explain the sponsorship of MS > only user groups, the free events that MS is sponsoring and the > Microsoft Across America truck > (http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/acrossamerica/). > > They spend an absurd amount of money on marketing and are probably down > to using unorthodox methods. And "unorthodox" can, on occasion, be the "ground-breaking orthodoxy of the future," but, more often, it's 'heretical' because it's downright wrong, and, in this context, represents marketing methods that we will ultimately discover don't work. The desperation is an interesting thing to see... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 14:37:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 10:37:20 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <445F57A0.2080001@telly.org> Bill Traynor wrote: > FC4 puts Ooo in /etc to to enable use by all system users. This is so > third party tools like testtool can locate the install. A single > user install will put it in /home of said user. IIRC, this seriously breaks LSB specs, which say that /etc is to be reserved for system wide configuration info. Putting OOo in /etc may break (or severely impact) a number of otherwise-sensible backup and partitioning strategies that rely on LSB conventions. The usual (and I believe LSB-mandated) practise for applications is to use /usr/bin and /usr/lib for applications considered to be "part of the system", and in either /usr/local or /opt if not. While one may debate whether an office suite is "part of the system", neither of these choices call for binaries to go in /etc. If something like testtool can't find OOo in /opt or /usr/local (or even /usr/lib and /usr/bin), I wouldn't consider it a very valuable tool. That's no excuse at all for putting all of OOo in /etc. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 14:47:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 10:47:54 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060508144754.GD2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 09:47:33AM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote: > FC4 puts Ooo in /etc to to enable use by all system users. This is so > third party tools like testtool can locate the install. A single user > install will put it in /home of said user. How odd that debian didn't have to violate the FHS to make openoffice multiuser enabled. What gives? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 14:54:56 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 May 2006 10:54:56 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: "Christopher Browne" writes: > On 5/3/06, J. Schaap wrote: > > I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. > > I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements > > to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with > > Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? > > Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? > > I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. > > What seems even more dumb about this is that the application is one > that IN NO WAY requires "sophisticated" components such as client-side > Java. > > I imagine I only got the short form (it asks little more than name, > date of birth, and "mother tongue"), which represents a simple sort of > CGI that could be done without any "minimum requirements." > > I don't think the problem is merely a "blocking Linux" one; it would > appear that they are making generally incompetent technology choices. Given the close ties between Bell and Microsoft, this could be a deliberate embrace and extend strategy, i.e. not mere incompetence. If Linux users cannot access govt. services, many casual Linux users may find it more convenient to switch back to Windows. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 14:49:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 10:49:35 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: <445F57A0.2080001-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> <445F57A0.2080001@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060508144935.GE2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:37:20AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > IIRC, this seriously breaks LSB specs, which say that /etc is to be > reserved for system wide configuration info. Putting OOo in /etc may > break (or severely impact) a number of otherwise-sensible backup and > partitioning strategies that rely on LSB conventions. It breaks multiple specs (some of which I believe redhat claims to follow and even helped create), and violates historical unix usage. > The usual (and I believe LSB-mandated) practise for applications is to > use /usr/bin and /usr/lib for applications considered to be "part of the > system", and in either /usr/local or /opt if not. While one may debate > whether an office suite is "part of the system", neither of these > choices call for binaries to go in /etc. Absolutely. > If something like testtool can't find OOo in /opt or /usr/local (or even > /usr/lib and /usr/bin), I wouldn't consider it a very valuable tool. > That's no excuse at all for putting all of OOo in /etc. There is no excuse at all that would be valid for putting OOo in /etc. Incompetence is not a valid excuse either. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 15:01:43 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 11:01:43 -0400 Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> <1147094249.24620.56.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <445F5D57.4000504@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >> In my view, MS has changed their marketing. I think they have saturated >> print media and are looking to combat Open Source in any way that they >> can. How does one stop a grass roots competitor? Perhaps this is >> unprecedented in marketing. That would explain the sponsorship of MS >> only user groups, the free events that MS is sponsoring and the >> Microsoft Across America truck >> (http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/acrossamerica/). >> >> They spend an absurd amount of money on marketing and are probably down >> to using unorthodox methods. > > > And "unorthodox" can, on occasion, be the "ground-breaking orthodoxy > of the future," but, more often, it's 'heretical' because it's > downright wrong, and, in this context, represents marketing methods > that we will ultimately discover don't work. I wouldn't dismiss these tactics so fast. Arguably, inertia is as large an obstacle to open source adoption as any technical issue. Managers and other IT workers who are increasingly threatened by open source are themselves looking for more support, and would be IMO good targets to join their own kind of grassroots advocacy networks. It may be defencive advocacy, but it is advocacy nonetheless. Novell learned long ago the value of building up a grassroots, vendor-centric grassroots network (right, Rick? ;-) ). The global development of NUI is inarguably a significant factor in Novell's popularity and customer loyalty long surviving the technical obsolescence of NetWare. Now Microsoft is trying to cultivate loyalty in the same manner, as a rearguard action. This may be as much a matter of political-support gathering as technical-support sharing; I would keep an eye on these groups. As for free events, Microsoft certainly doesn't have a lock on that: http://blogs.redhat.com/worldtour/ Though obviously they have more to spend on such things. Anyway, don't Maddog's travels constitute a ongoing, dozen-year-long "Linux World Tour" of sorts? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 15:12:33 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 11:12:33 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: Paul King wrote: > On Mon, 2006-05-08 at 01:34 -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Have you tried upgrading to FC4 (if that is possible) first? Maybe it >> needs a single-step incremental dist-upgrade. >> >> -Steve. > > Just did it -- and no, the error is still the same. The error says that > it is most likely a bug with their script, and it wanted me to save the > error and send it off to RedHat. However, the dialog provided no way to > save the error. And you couldn't select the text and dump it in an > application. I think soon I will be moving to Debian anyway. It seems as > though (and I hadn't noticed until now) RedHat now wants me to purchase > "entitlements" if I want updates to the OS. > > And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the > website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; > in fact there is not much mention of Fedora at all. I get the feeling > now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental > and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, > then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. > > Paul King > Fedora has been my distro of choice since their beginning and have never paid a cent for it or any updates. Therefore, I'm a little confused when you mentioned purchasing "entitlements" for updates to Fedora. Which website are you looking at, www.redhat.com or fedora.redhat.com? Anyway, I'm just curious about whether there is some sort of fee I'm going to be have to paying soon. Thanks, Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 15:31:13 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 11:31:13 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1f13df280605080831x77b154bev98fba021e5960e4e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Folks. My first post, been reading the list for about a week. Long time Linux user, just back in Toronto after many years away. Very happy to find such an active and knowledgeable mailing list, and I expect to be at the meeting tomorrow night. In response to Paul King: On 5/8/06, Paul King wrote: > I think soon I will be moving to Debian anyway. It seems as > though (and I hadn't noticed until now) RedHat now wants me to purchase > "entitlements" if I want updates to the OS. [SNIP] ... I get the feeling > now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental > and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, > then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. I hope this will help shed light on both my own Linux use and Paul's plans to switch distros. I started using Linux in 1994, and the only realistic choice at the time was Slack. (Anyone remember Yggdrasil? They were pretty much bowing out at the time.) I tried Redhat 4.2 when it came out, wasn't happy with it. Then came RH 5.0, and I switched primarily because of package management - amazing, you could install binary packages, not source, and the system made sure there weren't any conflicts! Four years later, having developed a major distaste for "RPM dependency hell" and upset at RH's partial abandonment of the community when they switched to Fedora, I bailed once again in the name of package management, going over to Debian. I told friends then, and will say it again now, Debian is a monster to install, but once you get it running there really isn't anything easier to maintain and upgrade. But about 18 months ago I discovered Ubuntu, and I highly recommend it. It combines the power and manageability of Debian with the user-friendliness Debian has always so desperately needed. A few notes about myself: I'm a CLI junky - I use aptitude's command line to install packages, prefer fluxbox (but change WMs fairly regularly and remain a big fan of CTWM), burn CDs with cdrecord, edit with vim (not ed - I'm not THAT hardcore), and just generally avoid GUI programs other than Firefox and Jpilot. I'm also the author of the "Bashprompt HOWTO." -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 15:35:14 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 11:35:14 -0400 Subject: 'eth3' as default? Message-ID: <20060508153514.GA4317@wp.magstar.net> SuSE10 was first installed on /dev/hda3, then I copied everything over to /dev/hda2. I changed /etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.list, etc. So, it boots okey. But, the ethernet is now 'eth3', instead of 'eth0' as it was before. Does anyone know where the config is stored on SuSE? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 16:00:06 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 16:00:06 +0000 Subject: 'eth3' as default? In-Reply-To: <20060508153514.GA4317-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060508153514.GA4317@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: >SuSE10 was first installed on /dev/hda3, then I copied everything over >to /dev/hda2. I changed /etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.list, etc. So, it >boots okey. But, the ethernet is now 'eth3', instead of 'eth0' as it >was before. > >Does anyone know where the config is stored on SuSE? > Have you tried using YaST? I believe it has an option to make an interface default. You can launch yast by typing 'yast' on the command line as root. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 16:03:44 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 12:03:44 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> Message-ID: <445F6BE0.3090209@utoronto.ca> Tim Writer wrote: > "Christopher Browne" writes: > >> On 5/3/06, J. Schaap wrote: >>> I tried to complete the censes2006 form online and I was refused entry. >>> I get this message: "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements >>> to access this site". I'm using the latest FF and java. Same with >>> Konqeror. Are they blocking Linux? >>> Perhaps I'm missing something. Any thoughts? >>> I called the help line and was told to use the paper form. >> What seems even more dumb about this is that the application is one >> that IN NO WAY requires "sophisticated" components such as client-side >> Java. >> >> I imagine I only got the short form (it asks little more than name, >> date of birth, and "mother tongue"), which represents a simple sort of >> CGI that could be done without any "minimum requirements." >> >> I don't think the problem is merely a "blocking Linux" one; it would >> appear that they are making generally incompetent technology choices. > > Given the close ties between Bell and Microsoft, this could be a deliberate > embrace and extend strategy, i.e. not mere incompetence. If Linux users > cannot access govt. services, many casual Linux users may find it more > convenient to switch back to Windows. It is either Lockheed Martin or IBM (doubtful given their Linux support?) or both that have setup the software aspect of the census. Someone mentioned using User agent Switcher in Firefox to trick the app into allowing Linux Firefox users. Did it work? If it did, perhaps we could use that "bug" as a reason to allow *NIX Firefox users. Likely it would just make them try to block the site altogether or accuse people of "cracking", but still, might be a way to get someone to take notice. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 16:26:49 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 12:26:49 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <445F7149.3010204@interlog.com> Paul King wrote: > Apart from the "entitlements" mentioned earlier, I noticed that Fedora 4 > decided to place the entire OpenOffice distribution -- all 250 megs of > it -- under /etc, of all places. I'm running Fedora Core 4 and have Open Office 2.0.1 installed. There are 8 installed RPM packages as part of Open Office on my machine (math, impress, xsltfilter, calc, writer, graphicfilter, core, and draw). None of these packages are installed under /etc. All the files are installed under the /usr/bin and /usr/lib directories. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alain_rochon-C2V98wQY+d4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 17:20:51 2006 From: alain_rochon-C2V98wQY+d4 at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 13:20:51 -0400 Subject: 'eth3' as default? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: SUSE stores its networking configuration in /etc/sysconfig/network (network card) and /etc/sysconfig/hardware (pci bus info). The network card configuration file named "ifcfg-eth-id-mac-address" includes the pci-bus-address of the card as part of its configuration, and uses this info to link back to the hardware configuration file to apply permanent settings to the card. "eth0", or "eth3" in this case, is a symbolic name that doesn't appear to be recorded anywhere. The card "should" maintain its correct configuration even though the symbolic name may change. Alain -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Muhammad Imran Sent: May 8, 2006 12:00 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: 'eth3' as default? >SuSE10 was first installed on /dev/hda3, then I copied everything over >to /dev/hda2. I changed /etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.list, etc. So, it >boots okey. But, the ethernet is now 'eth3', instead of 'eth0' as it >was before. > >Does anyone know where the config is stored on SuSE? > Have you tried using YaST? I believe it has an option to make an interface default. You can launch yast by typing 'yast' on the command line as root. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 18:18:22 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 21:18:22 +0300 (IDT) Subject: http://opensourceparking.com/ In-Reply-To: <445F5D57.4000504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <445E70A3.6030809@gmail.com> <1147094249.24620.56.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <445F5D57.4000504@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 May 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > As for free events, Microsoft certainly doesn't have a lock on that: > http://blogs.redhat.com/worldtour/ > Though obviously they have more to spend on such things. As to m$, its 'world tour' page cannot be viewed with non-m$ tools. How clever ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 18:18:37 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 14:18:37 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> Paul King wrote: > And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the > website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; > in fact there is not much mention of Fedora at all. I get the feeling > now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental > and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, > then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. I would be interested to know which web site says that. I do remember that RedHat offered a service where you could get priority access to updates for their distros if you paid money. If you didn't pay, you just had to fight it out with everyone else to get access to the public servers with updates. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 19:37:55 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 15:37:55 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog Message-ID: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> In case you're looking for some humour today... SCO has announced a new product "stack", combining its own proprietary Unix platform with Apache, MySQL, Perl and Python into a package called SCAMP. They even have a new ugly logo to go with it, and a report that reveals(!) SCAMP is more cost effective than LAMP (Linux-based) or WIMP (Windows-based) equivalents. www.sco.com/scamp For those who are not aware, SCO is a Unix company that has achieved a small amount of notoriety for suing IBM and some major customers over Linux. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 19:43:43 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <1147061939.5022.12.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about WAJAX? According to Google, it's a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment, somehow that doesn't sound likely for a TLUG meeting. Thanks - Peter > Date > > Tuesday May 9, 2006 > > Time > > 7:30 pm > > Topic > > WAJAX > > Speaker > > Scott Elcomb > > Description > > Scott will be discussing WAJAX. Scott will be providing an introduction > to the topic, discussing the conceptual basis and providing a walk > though. He will then follow-up with a WAJAX development bootcamp > including an implementation of "Hello World" and discussing the > possibility of a better browser. Scott will then be tying up some loose > ends, discussing milestones for the project and concluding with time for > Q & A. > > Location > > Room GB244, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > University of Toronto > > Map > > http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=35+St > +George+St,+Toronto,+ON&hl=en > > -- > Drew Sullivan > Systems Software > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 19:53:02 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:53:02 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605081253p4656f8d0l7fde6c2733a84e7b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about > WAJAX? According to Google, it's a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment, > somehow that doesn't sound likely for a TLUG meeting. This is all I could find: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/node/18704 Some kind of web-based OS? -- Daniel W. Armstrong ::: build-it-yourself biology http://biohackery.com ::: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 20:02:50 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 16:02:50 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605081253p4656f8d0l7fde6c2733a84e7b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <61e9e2b10605081253p4656f8d0l7fde6c2733a84e7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <445FA3EA.2040308@telly.org> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> >> Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about >> WAJAX? According to Google, it's a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment, >> somehow that doesn't sound likely for a TLUG meeting. > I'm pretty sure -- based on what I think I know about Scott -- is that the talk will be about *A*synchronous *J*avaScript *A*nd *X*ML (AJAX). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX No "W". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 20:34:54 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:34:54 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605080831x77b154bev98fba021e5960e4e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> <1f13df280605080831x77b154bev98fba021e5960e4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/06, Giles Orr wrote: > about 18 months ago I discovered > Ubuntu, and I highly recommend it. It combines the power and > manageability of Debian with the user-friendliness Debian has always > so desperately needed. Debian has gotten far more user-friendly over the past few years. I use Debian Etch. The Sarge installer autodetected all my Dell Inspiron 1100 low-end laptop's hardware fine. And with the Etch 2.6.15 kernel, power management now works perfectly - after I installed the linux-image-2.6-686 package and enabled "suspend to RAM on close lid" in KDE, it Just Worked(tm). The secret to installing Debian is to set DEBCONF_PRIORITY=critical *before* you install. This makes intelligent choices for all of the dozens of questions that the installer otherwise would ask you. Except for the exim4 local vs. smarthost vs. no-configuration question. I filed a bug on that one and it's still not been changed after a year. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 20:52:06 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:52:06 +0000 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about > WAJAX? According to Google, it's a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment, > somehow that doesn't sound likely for a TLUG meeting. It looks like it's some sort of AJAX/Firefox-based application framework. And based on what I see out there in "Google-Land," it's a new project that won't be seriously publicized until *after* his talk. Apparently the TLUG presentation is the "kickoff" for publicity for it... This approach irritates me a bit; I kind of like to be able to look into what things are *before* the talk. If I have an idea of what it is, then this means the talk can help confirm/fix my mental model... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 21:20:40 2006 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 17:20:40 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <445F8B7D.7070409-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> Message-ID: <20060508212040.GB14974@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 02:18:37PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: >Paul King wrote: >>And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the >>website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; fedora and fedora updates have always been free (in both senses). http://fedora.redhat.com/ http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/ >>in fact there is not much mention of Fedora at all. I get the feeling >>now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental >>and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, >>then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. not sure what sort of FUD crack you are smoking there... :-) >I would be interested to know which web site says that. I do remember that >RedHat offered a service where you could get priority access to updates for >their distros if you paid money. If you didn't pay, you just had to fight >it out with everyone else to get access to the public servers with updates. fedora comes configured so that yum updates come from many (all free) mirrors all over the world. some are fast, some are slow. there's a yum package that apparently picks a close fast one for you: yum install yum-fastestmirror if you want your machine to automatically update itself every night then: /sbin/chkconfig yum on or yum upgrade if you want to do it by hand. Re: the original fc3 -> fc5 post: you can point an fc3 version of yum at any fc5 mirror and then type 'yum upgrade' and you'll likely get from fc3 to fc5 ok. this works especially well from fc4 to fc5 as anaconda is yum based now so more of the niggling package dependancies have been corrected. you'll also be able to see any errors that occur and be able to fix them if you do it in this text mode. my machine at home was happily playing divx's to the TV all the time it was yum upgrading itself from fc4 to fc5. cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 21:24:01 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 17:24:01 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605081424n144c5376w8c147c5000b7b7ce@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about > > WAJAX? According to Google, it's a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment, > > somehow that doesn't sound likely for a TLUG meeting. > > It looks like it's some sort of AJAX/Firefox-based application framework. That's a workable description - although we don't want to restrict development to Firefox, it is the preferred browser for this tool. A fork of the prototype is functioning for both Opera and Internet Explorer, however both have issues that need to be resolved. > And based on what I see out there in "Google-Land," it's a new project > that won't be seriously publicized until *after* his talk. Apparently > the TLUG presentation is the "kickoff" for publicity for it... > > This approach irritates me a bit; I kind of like to be able to look > into what things are *before* the talk. If I have an idea of what it > is, then this means the talk can help confirm/fix my mental model... Sorry - I would really have liked to have been able to get things online earlier. Mostly the approach is simply an attempt to make the best of a logistical nightmare. A preview url was provided to a few folks early - mostly other project leaders to get some early feedback and project management tips - but that URL isn't yet suitable for public distribution. If possible, I'll post the URL to our site tonight or tomorrow morning. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 22:51:31 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 18:51:31 -0400 Subject: 'eth3' as default? In-Reply-To: <20060508153514.GA4317-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060508153514.GA4317@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <445FCB73.9080608@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > SuSE10 was first installed on /dev/hda3, then I copied everything over > to /dev/hda2. I changed /etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.list, etc. So, it > boots okey. But, the ethernet is now 'eth3', instead of 'eth0' as it > was before. > > Does anyone know where the config is stored on SuSE? > Dunno. I've only got eth 0,1 & 2 on one system here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 23:26:46 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:26:46 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird upgrade breaks spellcheck Message-ID: <445FD3B6.1020206@telly.org> I recently upgraded to Thunderbird 1.5 and now it marks every word as misspelled while composing (except capitalized words). While my spelling is usually not too good, it's not _that_ bad. I have the en-US and en-CA dictionaries installed, it "sees" both and lets me switch between them. But regardless it still marks everything as misspelled. Is there any way to troubleshoot this? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 8 23:37:31 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:37:31 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird upgrade breaks spellcheck In-Reply-To: <445FD3B6.1020206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <445FD3B6.1020206@telly.org> Message-ID: <445FD63B.7050500@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I recently upgraded to Thunderbird 1.5 and now it marks every word as > misspelled while composing (except capitalized words). While my spelling > is usually not too good, it's not _that_ bad. > > I have the en-US and en-CA dictionaries installed, it "sees" both and > lets me switch between them. But regardless it still marks everything as > misspelled. Is there any way to troubleshoot this? > > Thanks! I think you need either apsell or myspell or both. Pretty sure it is aspell. You can also use any dictionary off this page: http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/dictionaries.html Hope this helps, I recall having the same problem when I upgraded. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 00:14:07 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 20:14:07 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <445E81D1.50503-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <20060503191541.GC31822@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <1146685744.9747.2.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <1146920485.13752.1.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445CD303.2040400@utoronto.ca> <445E81D1.50503@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Tom Watts wrote: > >> >> I agree that something needs to be said/done. However, I'd bet that >> most of the people on this list have day jobs and are pretty busy >> people so it may be difficult to coax them away for some time. >> Perhaps a petition or simply encouraging people to voice their >> complaints would be sufficient? > > > CLUE is going to try some strategy in Ottawa, we're just not sure yet > what's the best approach. Anyone who's interested in getting involved in > an organized attempt to voice this issue is invited to get in touch. Not totally Ottawa oriented but... CBC had an interview on As it Happens tonight that will interest anyone following this thread. The interview was with the fellow who started up www.countmeout.ca. He raised a few concerns about Lockheed Martin's involvement in the census and claimed that building a tojan into their software, while sounding like science-fiction, would be quite plausible. Of interest to us here on this list is the obvious open source development alternative, of which Mr. Don Rogers seems blissfully unaware of (haven't visited his site, but he doesn't mention it in the interview). Also, Mr. Rogers does not mention the issue with Firefox users not being able to access the site. What I propose then, is that everyone who reads this message have a listen to the interview conveniently located here thanks to an anonymous friend of mine: http://www.filespoint.com/point/4118728/As_it_happens.ogg.html Then we should all call the talkback line at 416-205-3311 and raise the issue. As a national radio program heard everyday at the same time and with sections devoted to listener input (selected recorded calls that is), the chances of getting heard nationally if we can all call in and saturate the voicemail are very good. They tend to take the issue from the previous night's show that garnered the most calls and devote a few minutes to it, sort of as a recap/debriefing. I've already called. Please, if anyone reads this, have a listen and give what could be a national listening audience your $0.02. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 00:44:50 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:44:50 -0400 Subject: 'eth3' as default? In-Reply-To: <445FCB73.9080608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060508153514.GA4317@wp.magstar.net> <445FCB73.9080608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060509004450.GA6194@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 06:51:31PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > > SuSE10 was first installed on /dev/hda3, then I copied everything over > > to /dev/hda2. I changed /etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.list, etc. So, it > > boots okey. But, the ethernet is now 'eth3', instead of 'eth0' as it > > was before. > > > > Does anyone know where the config is stored on SuSE? > > > > Dunno. I've only got eth 0,1 & 2 on one system here. What is means is there is no eth0, eth1, or eth3. Just, the first device is eth3. I'm poking around /etc/sysconfig/* (as pointed out by a reply), but... it's wierd. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 00:46:40 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:46:40 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... Message-ID: <20060509004640.DDOW10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> The OOo that came with this distro is OOo "2.0 beta" which after some digging turns out to be version 1.9.x (I think it was 1.9.8). So you likely have a later version. > > From: Kevin Cozens > Date: 2006/05/08 Mon PM 12:26:49 EST > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Another Fedora gripe ... > > Paul King wrote: > > Apart from the "entitlements" mentioned earlier, I noticed that Fedora 4 > > decided to place the entire OpenOffice distribution -- all 250 megs of > > it -- under /etc, of all places. > > I'm running Fedora Core 4 and have Open Office 2.0.1 installed. There are 8 > installed RPM packages as part of Open Office on my machine (math, impress, > xsltfilter, calc, writer, graphicfilter, core, and draw). None of these > packages are installed under /etc. All the files are installed under the > /usr/bin and /usr/lib directories. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > | Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 01:32:07 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 01:32:07 +0000 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <20060508212040.GB14974-Xa+LbO3DC1G2Q0qicKDiVp4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> <20060508212040.GB14974@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200605090132.07721.mervc@eol.ca> Since we have a few Fedora users here - I recently received a FC-5 DVD with the current issue of the Euro Linux magazine. I installed it and have apparently only Gnome which I do not appreciate. I cannot see a way to statically configure my ethernet card and LAN addresses. Nor do I see any obvious ways of installing KDE. My problem is I have been using Debian derivitives far too long and have lost any appreciation of Fedora, Mandriva and SuSE it seems. The magazine has supplied all with the past few issues Is it going to be as difficult to use as it now seems? - Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 02:10:01 2006 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 22:10:01 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <200605090132.07721.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> <20060508212040.GB14974@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> <200605090132.07721.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060509021001.GA12860@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 01:32:07AM +0000, Merv Curley wrote: >I installed it and have apparently only Gnome which I do not appreciate. I all of kde base is on the standard fc5 dvd. the rest is in fedora extras. >cannot see a way to statically configure my ethernet card and LAN addresses. system-config-* are your friend. system-config-network in this particular case. >Nor do I see any obvious ways of installing KDE. the easiest way is to eg. yum install koffice kyum k3b ... which'll download those apps from a yum mirror and automatically drag in all the dependancies with it... or you can try and optimise things and rpm -Uvh a file of rpms off the fc5 dvd... as .ca is blessed with decent broadband I'd prob stick with the former. >My problem is I have been using Debian derivitives far too long and have lost >any appreciation of Fedora, Mandriva and SuSE it seems. The magazine has >supplied all with the past few issues > >Is it going to be as difficult to use as it now seems? not nearly as difficult as it is for a fedora use to use debian :) cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 02:20:48 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 22:20:48 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <445F9E13.9050204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > They even have a new ugly logo to go with it Hey neat! A funny-looking bulldog-porcupine wearing a baseball hat! ... Quote: With the SCO OpenServer 6 application platform you get a suite of open source components that are fully integrated with the ultra-stable UNIX operating system. The same OS that's used by 6 of the top 10 global retailers and that runs more than 12,000 McDonald's restaurants worldwide. Does this mean that McDonald's is running SCO's product(s) or are they running some other kind of UNIX and the above is a BS statement? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 04:09:29 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 00:09:29 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <20060508212040.GB14974-Xa+LbO3DC1G2Q0qicKDiVp4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org> References: <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> Message-ID: <445FDDB9.9540.1B796F@pking123.sympatico.ca> I had seen that, but I was fooled by a link in the RedHat Update (Up2Date) dialog, which comes up after clicking s button on the "RH Network Alert Notification Tool". The link on the dialog box opened a web browser to https://rhn.redhat.com so I could "learn more" about subscriptions. On looking at it now I seem to have 4 free subscriptions available, but they are not updating. Whatever was on the webpage, it had no information which would help me "learn more" even about the subscriptions I have, let alone the paid stuff. I also had a simultaneous window which came at the same time as the notification tool, called a "Subscription Alert Dialog", urging me to "activate my subscriptions". Apparently, the 4 I already have aren't enough. The deal is, that the CDs are a year old, and surely there must be a ton of updates needed to be downloaded. The RH Notification Tool is supposed to detect these updates and notify me by an icon in the upper toolbar. It hasn't done that. And when I tried to coax the process by launching Up2Date, that is where the trouble started. It began searching a couple of packages, then hung forever on ImageMagick. On 8 May 2006 at 17:20, Robin Humble spaketh these wourdes: > On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 02:18:37PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >Paul King wrote: > >>And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the > >>website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; > > fedora and fedora updates have always been free (in both senses). > http://fedora.redhat.com/ > http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/ > I already know about those sites; that's where I got the CDs. Thanks PK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 05:01:45 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 01:01:45 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605080831x77b154bev98fba021e5960e4e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <445FE9F9.23985.4B4F98@pking123.sympatico.ca> On 8 May 2006 at 11:31, Giles Orr spaketh these wourdes: > Hi Folks. > > My first post, been reading the list for about a week. Long time > Linux user, just back in Toronto after many years away. Very happy to > find such an active and knowledgeable mailing list, and I expect to be > at the meeting tomorrow night. In response to Paul King: > > On 5/8/06, Paul King wrote: > > I think soon I will be moving to Debian anyway. It seems as > > though (and I hadn't noticed until now) RedHat now wants me to purchase > > "entitlements" if I want updates to the OS. [SNIP] ... I get the feeling > > now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental > > and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, > > then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. > > I hope this will help shed light on both my own Linux use and Paul's > plans to switch distros. I started using Linux in 1994, and the only > realistic choice at the time was Slack. (Anyone remember Yggdrasil? That was my first distro. I don't have the CD anymore. Mine was a live CD with install packages on the side. TransAmeritech distributed Slackware, that was my second distro. > They were pretty much bowing out at the time.) I tried Redhat 4.2 I was leery and held out until I got a RedHat 6 CD I purchased at a TLUG meeting. And this was only after trying out SuSE 5.1 (I still have those CDs). RH6 was solid, but SuSE was better. > when it came out, wasn't happy with it. Then came RH 5.0, and I > switched primarily because of package management - amazing, you could > install binary packages, not source, and the system made sure there > weren't any conflicts! Four years later, having developed a major > distaste for "RPM dependency hell" and upset at RH's partial > abandonment of the community when they switched to Fedora, I bailed > once again in the name of package management, going over to Debian. I > told friends then, and will say it again now, Debian is a monster to > install, but once you get it running there really isn't anything I agree, and at one time I would have (and have in the past) gone through the several tries it would take to "get it right", I don't have the amount of time on my hands that I used to have. I am quite busy teaching Chemistry, and I need the computer now as a utility. I have said in an earlier post, that Linux has ceased to become a hobby for me and has become more of a necessity. If I can't figure out how to hook up a network printer without wading through scads of documentation and hours of reading and tinkering, then at this juncture I would say that such a system is pretty useless to me. And I say that as a person with quite a few years of honed ninja computer skills under my belt. > easier to maintain and upgrade. But about 18 months ago I discovered > Ubuntu, and I highly recommend it. It combines the power and > manageability of Debian with the user-friendliness Debian has always > so desperately needed. > > A few notes about myself: I'm a CLI junky - I use aptitude's command > line to install packages, prefer fluxbox (but change WMs fairly > regularly and remain a big fan of CTWM), burn CDs with cdrecord, edit I like to use FVWM2, and use it when I boot into WIndows (Cygwin). I don't find TWM attractive, although it was the first one I ever used, and until I stopped using Slack, it was my favourite WM. Part of the reason was that I found a way to create multicoloured dropdown menus -- even menus that automatically graded the colour simply by picking a first and last colour. I can't remember what was it about CTWM that was different from TWM; but I don't think it had much more (I could be wrong). There are a ton of things you can do and configure under feeble that simply can't be done under TWM. This is especially true with toolbars which swallow applications (clocks, xterms, you name it). You can configure the .fvwm2rc script to behave as a .xsessions file also. > with vim (not ed - I'm not THAT hardcore), and just generally avoid I use Elvis (a popular vi clone). Won't use VIM; won't use BSD's vi either. Elvis has both a GUI mode and a console mode. You can configure it to decide which one is more sensible (GUI if you are in an xterm and console if you are already in a console). I know EMACS, but use it seldom. Elvis already has syntax highlighting for just about all languages, so I don't need EMACS for that. It also has HTML- based help. Elvis's browser is just another edit window, implementing the web- based presentation similar to Lynx. > GUI programs other than Firefox and Jpilot. I'm also the author of > the "Bashprompt HOWTO." I read it, and I will thus thank you for teaching me about them. I added a few modifications: Check out my webpage on BASH prompts: http://alimentarus.net/tty_tut.html Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 05:03:05 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 01:03:05 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <445F8B7D.7070409-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1147089395.17050.13.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <445FEA49.16531.4C88FA@pking123.sympatico.ca> https://rhn.redhat.com That is the link as it appeared in the RedHat Update Agent, used in Fedora. Paul King On 8 May 2006 at 14:18, Kevin Cozens spaketh these wourdes: > Paul King wrote: > > And yes, I know that Fedora is supposed to be free, but that is what the > > website says, and there seems to be no portal to allow Fedora updates; > > in fact there is not much mention of Fedora at all. I get the feeling > > now that Fedora has now become a one-time download of an experimental > > and possibly broken set of RPMs, and if you want bug fixes and the like, > > then you have to purchase "entitlements" from RedHat. > > I would be interested to know which web site says that. I do remember that > RedHat offered a service where you could get priority access to updates for > their distros if you paid money. If you didn't pay, you just had to fight it > out with everyone else to get access to the public servers with updates. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > | Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1525 (20060508) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 05:06:21 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 01:06:21 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 5/7/06, Paul King wrote: > Hello > > Now that Fedora Core 5 is no longer a "testing" suite, I decided to > attempt an upgrade of my system, and found after a couple of attempts > that its python-based Anaconda script dies just after making a list of > packages to upgrade on my current system (FC3). The docs said that it > was supposed to auto-detect the installation (which it did), and then > upgrade if I select "upgrade" (which I did). The error message tells me > that the error is likely due to a bug. > FC3 to FC5 is big jump, If you have installed a lot of extra applications on top of FC3, it's not a surprise that you are having some problems. You may need to remove some applications to get the install to work. The removal shouldn't remove your configuration files but I wouldn't bet on it as there are lot of bad rpm packages in existence. (To Fedora's credit most of the bad apples won't be from them but 3rd parties.) Most of the time when I update from one FC version to another I use yum. I update yum first, then update the other packages. I remove trouble packages if necessary and make notes so I can re-install them. I have run lot of packages from test and devel. Most problems with updating are frustrating but can be resolved. Also remember that Fedora is still, for all intents and purposes, a beta version even in release. It's a testing ground for packages that will later move into RedHat EL If you aren't prepared to be a beta tester than I would recommend using EL, CentOS or Debian Stable. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 06:39:31 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 02:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc overload [was Re: Another Fedora gripe ...] In-Reply-To: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> References: <1147090657.19487.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: | From: Paul King | I noticed that Fedora 4 | decided to place the entire OpenOffice distribution -- all 250 megs of | it -- under /etc, of all places. This seems to be new for FC4. You gotta | wonder about who writes the install scripts... Not on my almost-current FC4 and FC5 systems. If it happened, they fixed it. What I do find disgusting is the size of /etc/gconf. ~64M! I wonder what crap is in there (I don't knowingly use gconf because I suspect it of being a horror show; some of the file names within /etc/gconf suggest XML, another horror show). The next biggest subdirectory of /etc is selinux: 20M on my FC5 system. Another thing of which I am extremely suspicious. Oh well, FC5 seems OK when I ignore these things. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 06:51:45 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 09:51:45 +0300 (IDT) Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: > into what things are *before* the talk. If I have an idea of what it > is, then this means the talk can help confirm/fix my mental model... Look up AJAX on Wikipedia ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 10:44:20 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 06:44:20 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <445F6BE0.3090209-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>; from jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:03:44 -0400 References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445F6BE0.3090209@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060509104420.GC9451@localhost> On Mon May 08,2006 12:03:44 PM Jamon Camisso wrote: > Someone mentioned using User agent Switcher in Firefox to trick the > app into allowing Linux Firefox users. Did it work? I tried it with Firefox on my Gentoo based system. It got past the browser test and then told me that I didn't have a compatible version of Java. I did an about:plugins in Firefox which showed that I had Java at a compatible level, so I don't know what the problem was. I gave up at this point. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 11:18:58 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 07:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article Message-ID: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> F.Y.I. My take on the Linux World Canada 2006 show can be seen here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9028 The caption that I wrote for the first picture isn't quite what the editor put in (I will leave up to you folks to spot what is now in error...). Otherwise I am basically happy (as this also means that I will be getting a few $ for that bit ... :-) ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 14:18:40 2006 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 10:18:40 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Quote: > With the SCO OpenServer 6 application platform you get a suite of open > source components that are fully integrated with the ultra-stable UNIX > operating system. The same OS that's used by 6 of the top 10 global > retailers and that runs more than 12,000 McDonald's restaurants > worldwide. > > Does this mean that McDonald's is running SCO's product(s) or are they > running some other kind of UNIX and the above is a BS statement? "McDonald's Corporation will migrate more than 4,000 stores to run on SCO'S OpenServer Release 5 platform over the next two years." from http://www.caldera.com/company/success/story.html?ID=9 12,000... 4,000.... what's 8,000 licences among friends... //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 15:03:45 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 11:03:45 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: <20060509004640.DDOW10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net-S6HM6mcWxYWbHxUYzX/Bp7Dks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20060509004640.DDOW10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4460AF51.4050105@interlog.com> pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > The OOo that came with this distro is OOo "2.0 beta" which after some > digging turns out to be version 1.9.x (I think it was 1.9.8). So you likely > have a later version. My version of Open Office was installed from the FC repositories. I don't remember when 2.0 (non-beta) became available. An 'rpm -qi' tells me the 2.0.1 version was installed on my machine on January 18 of this year. I think you need to update your machine. I'll comment about that in your "FC5 Pukes on my machine" thread. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 15:09:53 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 15:09:53 +0000 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d@mail.gmail.com> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/06, marius wrote: > On 5/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 5/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > > Quote: > > With the SCO OpenServer 6 application platform you get a suite of open > > source components that are fully integrated with the ultra-stable UNIX > > operating system. The same OS that's used by 6 of the top 10 global > > retailers and that runs more than 12,000 McDonald's restaurants > > worldwide. > > > > Does this mean that McDonald's is running SCO's product(s) or are they > > running some other kind of UNIX and the above is a BS statement? > > "McDonald's Corporation will migrate more than 4,000 stores to run on > SCO'S OpenServer Release 5 platform over the next two years." > from http://www.caldera.com/company/success/story.html?ID=9 > > 12,000... 4,000.... what's 8,000 licences among friends... This actually begs the question of: a) How many stores there are b) What they were running before c) Whether these are all the stores... This may have been a migration for company-owned stores, as distinct from franchiser-owned stores. This may be a USA migration, with plenty o stores in other countries as well. After all, McDonalds has ~31K stores around the world. A conversion involving 4K stores leaves 27K unaccounted for... I would be fully unsurprised for there to be *easily* another 8K licenses to older versions of SCO kicking around at franchise operations, and that only accounting for the US... I'm not saying that SCO aren't mendacious; I'm just saying that this might not happen to be one of the lies... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 15:27:19 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 11:27:19 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <445FDDB9.9540.1B796F-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> <445FDDB9.9540.1B796F@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4460B4D7.8070705@interlog.com> Paul King wrote: > I had seen that, but I was fooled by a link in the RedHat Update (Up2Date) > dialog, which comes up after clicking s button on the "RH Network Alert > Notification Tool". The link on the dialog box opened a web browser to > https://rhn.redhat.com so I could "learn more" about subscriptions. [snip] > The deal is, that the CDs are a year old, and surely there must be a ton of > updates needed to be downloaded. The RH Notification Tool is supposed to detect > these updates and notify me by an icon in the upper toolbar. It hasn't done that. > > And when I tried to coax the process by launching Up2Date, that is where the > trouble started. It began searching a couple of packages, then hung forever on > ImageMagick. I used to find that the up2date tool would usually (appear to?) hang if there were too many files that needed to be updated at one time. Now that you have mentioned up2date and the RHN tool in relation to FC5, I see your problem. Since you are jumping from FC3 to FC5 you aren't aware that the up2date and the RHN Tool stopped being the programs used to update a Fedora Core machine as of FC4. In FC4 you use yum to update the machine. If you want a graphical tool for updating your machine, you can use Yum Extender. That said, you should check the FC web site for information about the changes in FC from version 3 to version 4 and from version 4 to version 5. You might still be able to use yum but there are other tools provided in FC5 which are meant to keep a machine up to date. I don't remember what the new tools are called off-hand as I am only running FC4. I have not yet updated my machine to FC5. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 15:33:28 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 11:33:28 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d@mail.gmail.com> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4460B648.1060404@interlog.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/9/06, marius wrote: > >> On 5/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: >> > On 5/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> > >> >> > Quote: >> > With the SCO OpenServer 6 application platform you get a suite of open >> >> "McDonald's Corporation will migrate more than 4,000 stores to run on >> SCO'S OpenServer Release 5 platform over the next two years." >> from http://www.caldera.com/company/success/story.html?ID=9 A mention of OpenServer 6 but McDonald's Corporation only plans to migrate to Release 5? Something sounds odd here. Then again, this is SCO we are talking about. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 15:36:39 2006 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:36:39 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605091136.40014.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> > This actually begs the question of: No it doesn't. It raises the question. "Begs the question" means an entirely different thing to people who are fussy about language and thought. Charly Baker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 16:14:29 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 12:14:29 -0400 Subject: Another Fedora gripe ... In-Reply-To: <4460AF51.4050105-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060509004640.DDOW10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <4460AF51.4050105@interlog.com> Message-ID: <1147191269.12206.12.camel@gandalf> On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 11:03 -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > The OOo that came with this distro is OOo "2.0 beta" which after some > > digging turns out to be version 1.9.x (I think it was 1.9.8). So you likely > > have a later version. > > My version of Open Office was installed from the FC repositories. I don't > remember when 2.0 (non-beta) became available. An 'rpm -qi' tells me the 2.0.1 > version was installed on my machine on January 18 of this year. I think you > need to update your machine. I'll comment about that in your "FC5 Pukes on my > machine" thread. > My version of ooo was also installed directly from the FC repositories, and in fact came from the FC4 CD. Update my *machine*? You mean the distribution? The beta version of ooo was dumped into /etc/ after the FC4 upgrade. I know this for certain because my ooo icons began to malfunction after the upgrade (old and new versions were installed in different places, and yum was aware of both versions -- but alas, only one set of icons, so some pointed to one place and other icons pointed to the old (genuine version 2) binaries). This problem was resolved by getting yum to list all installed binaries containing the string "openoffice" in the package name. I made a script of these package names, and did a collective "yum remove" of all of them. Then, I asked yum to list available on-line packages with that string. I made a list of those packages, pared the list down to the main application names (allowing yum to sort out dependencies rather than installing everything and anything with the string), and did a collective "yum install" of those binaries. So far, I have had no problems, and I now have ooo 2.0.1 on the machine, rather than a beta. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 16:23:31 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 12:23:31 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <4460B4D7.8070705-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <445F8B7D.7070409@interlog.com> <445FDDB9.9540.1B796F@pking123.sympatico.ca> <4460B4D7.8070705@interlog.com> Message-ID: <1147191811.12206.21.camel@gandalf> On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 11:27 -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Paul King wrote: > > I had seen that, but I was fooled by a link in the RedHat Update (Up2Date) > > dialog, which comes up after clicking s button on the "RH Network Alert > > Notification Tool". The link on the dialog box opened a web browser to > > https://rhn.redhat.com so I could "learn more" about subscriptions. > [snip] > > The deal is, that the CDs are a year old, and surely there must be a ton of > > updates needed to be downloaded. The RH Notification Tool is supposed to detect > > these updates and notify me by an icon in the upper toolbar. It hasn't done that. > > > > And when I tried to coax the process by launching Up2Date, that is where the > > trouble started. It began searching a couple of packages, then hung forever on > > ImageMagick. > > I used to find that the up2date tool would usually (appear to?) hang if there > were too many files that needed to be updated at one time. > > Now that you have mentioned up2date and the RHN tool in relation to FC5, up2date was mentioned in relation to FC4, upgrading from FC3. FC5 never got off the starting block. In FC5, Anaconda was the problem, and it died when it was attempting to upgrade. The error message said that it was due to a bug in the python install script, and that I should send a message to Fedora to debug, but the dialog provided no way to actually do that. > I see > your problem. Since you are jumping from FC3 to FC5 FC5 also died for the same reason (anaconda, not RHN) on going from FC4 to FC5. Surely FC5 should reasonably be expected to handle that. > you aren't aware that the > up2date and the RHN Tool stopped being the programs used to update a Fedora > Core machine as of FC4. In FC4 you use yum to update the machine. If you want > a graphical tool for updating your machine, you can use Yum Extender. > While that is useful information (and I thank you for it), I don't think that will fix anaconda. Paul King > That said, you should check the FC web site for information about the changes > in FC from version 3 to version 4 and from version 4 to version 5. You might > still be able to use yum but there are other tools provided in FC5 which are > meant to keep a machine up to date. I don't remember what the new tools are > called off-hand as I am only running FC4. I have not yet updated my machine to > FC5. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 17:53:32 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:53:32 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about > WAJAX? A link to the WAJAX 1.1.0 project is now available from the Products Area at http://w3.avidus.ca/ Here's what you'll need: - Firefox 1.5.0 or better - Screen resolution of 1024x768 or better (1280x1024 highly recommended) -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 18:00:42 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Diner and free stuff... Message-ID: <20060509180042.40996.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just some notes regarding tonight's TLUG meeting. Before the meeting, there will be a group of Linux fans (as is usual) meeting at 6:00 PM at the Pho Hung restaurant 350 Spadina Ave. (1 block north of Dundas) for conversation and some very good, inexpensive Vietnamese style food. All are welcome to come along. There were some free goodies left over from the show that I will bring to tonight's meeting, so please show up and take something home with you.... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 18:22:45 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 May 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about >> WAJAX? > > A link to the WAJAX 1.1.0 project is now available from the Products > Area at http://w3.avidus.ca/ > > Here's what you'll need: > - Firefox 1.5.0 or better And no pop-up blocker. Any chance of putting up a real page? > - Screen resolution of 1024x768 or better (1280x1024 highly recommended) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 18:35:05 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:35:05 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <200605091136.40014.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <200605091136.40014.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605091135j2e80d1ceu593d56a634d98155@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Charly Baker wrote: > > This actually begs the question of: > > No it doesn't. It raises the question. "Begs the question" means an entirely > different thing to people who are fussy about language and thought. Please, do give a link or story to explain some more. So far, I think it's perfectly cromulent. ;) http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cromulent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromulent#C -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 18:36:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:36:30 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605091136v7537c9dch6f6312263143241e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 9 May 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Here's what you'll need: > > - Firefox 1.5.0 or better > > And no pop-up blocker. Any chance of putting up a real page? And javascript enabled. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 18:48:07 2006 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 14:48:07 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605091135j2e80d1ceu593d56a634d98155-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <200605091136.40014.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <1e55af990605091135j2e80d1ceu593d56a634d98155@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605091448.07608.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> On Tue May 9 2006 2:35 pm, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/9/06, Charly Baker wrote: > > > This actually begs the question of: > > > > No it doesn't. It raises the question. "Begs the question" means an > > entirely different thing to people who are fussy about language and > > thought. > > Please, do give a link or story to explain some more. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beg_the_question -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 20:08:42 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 16:08:42 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605091308q74113ec6j63e833945bc9a4f3@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 9 May 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > On 5/8/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> > >> Can someone in the knoww provide a pointer to further information about > >> WAJAX? > > > > A link to the WAJAX 1.1.0 project is now available from the Products > > Area at http://w3.avidus.ca/ > > > > Here's what you'll need: > > - Firefox 1.5.0 or better > > And no pop-up blocker. Any chance of putting up a real page? Using the popup method, we are able to clean up some visual issues. If you don't feel like allowing popup's, the project itself is located at http://w3.avidus.ca/wajax/ -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 23:16:38 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 19:16:38 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser Message-ID: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 9 23:34:15 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:34:15 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147216598.8698.1.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060509193415.381178be.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 09 May 2006 19:16:38 -0400 Rick Tomaschuk got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... No problems here with my browser (Firefox), though CNN crashes my brain with all the BS ;-) Perhaps it's not the browser but a plugin/extension that's causing the crash? Which browser are you using? Wild guess is Konq... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power" -- Benito Mussolini -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 00:03:05 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:03:05 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060509104420.GC9451@localhost> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445F6BE0.3090209@utoronto.ca> <20060509104420.GC9451@localhost> Message-ID: <44612DB9.3090508@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On Mon May 08,2006 12:03:44 PM Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Someone mentioned using User agent Switcher in Firefox to trick the >> app into allowing Linux Firefox users. Did it work? > > I tried it with Firefox on my Gentoo based system. It got past the > browser test and then told me that I didn't have a compatible version of > Java. I did an about:plugins in Firefox which showed that I had Java at > a compatible level, so I don't know what the problem was. I gave up at > this point. > > Perhaps everyone should try the site and then call the support line for help, when they can't connect. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 00:04:45 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:04:45 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <1e55af990605081920t5a20cf6ek97855f5abd11f56d@mail.gmail.com> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44612E1D.7040804@rogers.com> marius wrote: > On 5/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 5/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> > >> Quote: >> With the SCO OpenServer 6 application platform you get a suite of open >> source components that are fully integrated with the ultra-stable UNIX >> operating system. The same OS that's used by 6 of the top 10 global >> retailers and that runs more than 12,000 McDonald's restaurants >> worldwide. >> >> Does this mean that McDonald's is running SCO's product(s) or are they >> running some other kind of UNIX and the above is a BS statement? > > "McDonald's Corporation will migrate more than 4,000 stores to run on > SCO'S OpenServer Release 5 platform over the next two years." > from http://www.caldera.com/company/success/story.html?ID=9 > > 12,000... 4,000.... what's 8,000 licences among friends... It's amazing that SCO attacks GPL, while using it in their products. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 01:40:02 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 21:40:02 -0400 Subject: About SUSE Message-ID: <200605092140.02903.marc@lijour.net> Hi does somebody has contacts with the SUSE community? We would like to have them involved or at least aware of the EDOS project (http://www.edos-project.org), in the best interest of SUSE to make our tools work for them. Regards, Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:07:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:07:13 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting: WAJAX? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605091308q74113ec6j63e833945bc9a4f3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147061939.5022.12.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <50411.207.188.65.194.1147117423.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <99a6c38f0605091053v52a7ffddr2411b05d81fe7136@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0605091308q74113ec6j63e833945bc9a4f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605091907k593f58d6p2a2f74a088b9ec42@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Using the popup method, we are able to clean up some visual issues. > If you don't feel like allowing popup's, the project itself is located > at http://w3.avidus.ca/wajax/ I took another look, and the console was working. Neat. I poked around and found the WM. Holy shwt! I nabbed a screenshot. http://jrandomhacker.info/WAJAX Btw, nice desktop picture. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:21:36 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:21:36 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <20060509193415.381178be.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060509193415.381178be.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1147227696.4231.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I'm using Firefox 1.0 pre release. Haven't had problems till today. Looks like its blocking a popup and attempting to access ads.pointroll.com for something the the mouse stays as a pointer over any link and the browser functions all freeze up. I then have to restart the browser. I'll try to upgrade to latest version of Firefox...I guess. RickT On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 19:34 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 09 May 2006 19:16:38 -0400 > Rick Tomaschuk got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... > > No problems here with my browser (Firefox), though CNN crashes my brain with > all the BS ;-) > > Perhaps it's not the browser but a plugin/extension that's causing the crash? > Which browser are you using? Wild guess is Konq... > -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:27:16 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:27:16 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147227696.4231.4.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060509193415.381178be.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1147227696.4231.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1147228036.4231.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Seems ok with Firefox 1.5.0.2 RickT On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 22:21 -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm using Firefox 1.0 pre release. Haven't had problems till today. > Looks like its blocking a popup and attempting to access > ads.pointroll.com for something the the mouse stays as a pointer over > any link and the browser functions all freeze up. I then have to restart > the browser. I'll try to upgrade to latest version of Firefox...I guess. > RickT > > On Tue, 2006-05-09 at 19:34 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > On Tue, 09 May 2006 19:16:38 -0400 > > Rick Tomaschuk got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > > > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > > > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... > > > > No problems here with my browser (Firefox), though CNN crashes my brain with > > all the BS ;-) > > > > Perhaps it's not the browser but a plugin/extension that's causing the crash? > > Which browser are you using? Wild guess is Konq... > > -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:30:15 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:30:15 -0400 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <200605091448.07608.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <200605091136.40014.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <1e55af990605091135j2e80d1ceu593d56a634d98155@mail.gmail.com> <200605091448.07608.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605091930m373666dap57649187d95a2c15@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Charly Baker wrote: > On Tue May 9 2006 2:35 pm, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 5/9/06, Charly Baker wrote: > > > > This actually begs the question of: > > > > > > No it doesn't. It raises the question. "Begs the question" means an > > > entirely different thing to people who are fussy about language and > > > thought. > > > > Please, do give a link or story to explain some more. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beg_the_question Neat. I happen to disagree, as most of my language is barbaric/mutated slang that's usually specifically engineered towards a particular reader and apparently obfuscated to others. (Think "inside jokes") But to be honest, i'm not enough of a student to learn proper English. There's a lot of even more interesting reading buried a couple of clicks through that link. Thanks for sharing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:37:39 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 05:37:39 +0300 (IDT) Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147216598.8698.1.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... CNN is not doing anything special to block Linux. I visit their site several times per day. I just checked it again now. Imho one of your plugins may cause this. Try to turn off Java and see what happens as a first try. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 02:42:29 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:42:29 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1147228949.4231.9.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I installed Firefox 1.5.0.2 and it seems to be working fine. Thanks for your input. Nothing surprises me anymore especially after the Census BS. RickT On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 05:37 +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Tue, 9 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... > > CNN is not doing anything special to block Linux. I visit their site > several times per day. I just checked it again now. Imho one of your > plugins may cause this. Try to turn off Java and see what happens as a > first try. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 03:11:39 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 23:11:39 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1147230699.9443.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Well now I've installed Macromedia flash player and I have the same problem with Firefox 1.5.0.2 as with 1.0. I use macromedia to look at theweathernetwork.ca. If I disable java anad javascript the problem goes away. This is new as of the last week since I've had flawless performance with Firefox 1.0 till now. I still need java to access other sites... RickT On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 05:37 +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Tue, 9 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... > > CNN is not doing anything special to block Linux. I visit their site > several times per day. I just checked it again now. Imho one of your > plugins may cause this. Try to turn off Java and see what happens as a > first try. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 03:30:48 2006 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 23:30:48 -0400 Subject: AMD 64bit-powered Network performance In-Reply-To: References: <445786B3.9040402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060510033048.GB13080@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> interesting study! which kernel and drivers did you use for those machines? On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 04:57:18PM -0400, Mark Lane wrote: >I'm a little surprised that the intel gigE did that much better than >the Marvel Yukon. It could be that Tyan has it on a PCIe or PCI-X bus >and not PCI 32. I wouldn't be surprised if ASUS used a 32 bit bus for >their gigE because it is only Desktop Chipset. As I said it isn't a >fair comparison. in my experience (GigE beowulfs) the driver versions and driver tweaks that you use make a _huge_ difference. eg. it's normal for us to get ~890Mbit from e1000 on built-in PCI-X 64/66. low latency is more important though, and harder to get. http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/mediawiki/index.php/E1000_performance_patch I haven't got anything good out of Marvell yet - the sk98lin driver appears to be total crap with bizarre dropouts, and skge is low performance so far - only 500-660Mbit, but then again I haven't worked with it much compared to e1000. PCI-X 64/66 or PCIe shouldn't make any difference as they have both more than the 2Gbit needed to drive a gigE card at full duplex. running a gigE card in PCI 32/33 (max 132MB/s) would be a waste though - it'll never go full speed. cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 03:37:36 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 20:37:36 -0700 Subject: SCAMP, the ugly dog In-Reply-To: <200605091136.40014.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <445F9E13.9050204@telly.org> <22318ee50605090718n1d7b4499sc8f308d1fc11ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <200605091136.40014.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/06, Charly Baker wrote: > > This actually begs the question of: > > No it doesn't. It raises the question. "Begs the question" means an entirely > different thing to people who are fussy about language and thought. Thank you. It *raises* such questions as: a) How many stores are there, in total? (Answer: ~31000) based on a), we might then wonder such things as: - How many of those 31K are in the US? Would that be materially different from 12K??? - Would the contract relate to merely company-owned outlets, with franchises being separate? That could *readily* explain the difference between 4K and 12K... Of course, perhaps all of the above is irrelevant in that it distracts people from their prefererred activities of being fussy about language... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 08:04:23 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:04:23 +0300 (IDT) Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147230699.9443.4.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1147230699.9443.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Well now I've installed Macromedia flash player and I have the same > problem with Firefox 1.5.0.2 as with 1.0. I use macromedia to look at > theweathernetwork.ca. If I disable java anad javascript the problem goes > away. This is new as of the last week since I've had flawless > performance with Firefox 1.0 till now. I still need java to access other > sites... I have Javascript on and Flash on, but I use the Flashblock extension so Flash does not start right away. Try to load this extension imho, and set it to work (you will see a 'f' icon in Flash windows, they will play only after you click on it). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 10:26:06 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 06:26:06 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <44612DB9.3090508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 09, 2006 at 20:03:05 -0400 References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445F6BE0.3090209@utoronto.ca> <20060509104420.GC9451@localhost> <44612DB9.3090508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060510102606.GA1961@localhost> On Tue May 09,2006 08:03:05 PM James Knott wrote: > Perhaps everyone should try the site and then call the support > line for help, when they can't connect. The web site has a "Computer Requirements and Settings" link which specifically states the browser versions and operating systems supported. So if you call for help (instead of just to complain) then you're only showing your ignorance or lack of web savvy. The support person could, rightly, point you to this page and then tell you to use the mail-in form. I took a suggestion that I saw posted on this list (sorry, can't remember by who) and voiced my displeasure in the comments section at the end of the form. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alain_rochon-C2V98wQY+d4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 10:41:14 2006 From: alain_rochon-C2V98wQY+d4 at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 06:41:14 -0400 Subject: About SUSE In-Reply-To: <200605092140.02903.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605092140.02903.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: Have you tried posting to their mailing list? http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org Alain -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Marc Lijour Sent: May 9, 2006 9:40 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: About SUSE Hi does somebody has contacts with the SUSE community? We would like to have them involved or at least aware of the EDOS project (http://www.edos-project.org), in the best interest of SUSE to make our tools work for them. Regards, Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 08/05/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 08/05/2006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 10:39:08 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 06:39:08 -0400 Subject: How do I use rsync to update a Debian distro? Message-ID: <1147257548.31648.6.camel@gandalf> I just downloaded an ISO which the jigdo-lite script says has 285 missing files. I re-did the download to recover these files (as the script suggested I do) and saw that nearly all of them were not found on the remote server. Jigdo appears to suggest that if this happens, it would mean that these files would have been updated since the local file list was downloaded, and suggests that I use rsync. Trouble is, I haven't used rsync before, and would like to know how one uses it to update a hypothetical ISO file such as "bad_jigdo_download.iso.tmp" from a server, say: "ftp://ftp.foo.debian.org/debian" - and can I use just any server, or should I use the same one I used for jigdo? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 09:38:04 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 05:38:04 -0400 Subject: About SUSE In-Reply-To: <200605092140.02903.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605092140.02903.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4461B47C.6000701@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > does somebody has contacts with the SUSE community? > We would like to have them involved or at least aware of the EDOS project > (http://www.edos-project.org), in the best interest of SUSE to make our tools > work for them. Why not post that to the SUSE list? suse-linux-e-IBi9RG/b67k at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 13:24:52 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:24:52 -0400 Subject: About SUSE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200605100924.53028.marc@lijour.net> Le 10 Mai 2006 06:41, Alain Rochon a ?crit?: > Have you tried posting to their mailing list? > http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org I tried the build service one first. I will try this one as well. thanks > > Alain > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Marc Lijour > Sent: May 9, 2006 9:40 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: About SUSE > > Hi > > does somebody has contacts with the SUSE community? > We would like to have them involved or at least aware of the EDOS project > (http://www.edos-project.org), in the best interest of SUSE to make our > tools > work for them. > > Regards, > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 08/05/2006 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 08/05/2006 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 14:02:34 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 10:02:34 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: <20060509111858.77893.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > F.Y.I. > > My take on the Linux World Canada 2006 show can be > seen here: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9028 > > The caption that I wrote for the first picture isn't > quite what the editor put in (I will leave up to you > folks to spot what is now in error...). > > Otherwise I am basically happy (as this also means > that I will be getting a few $ for that bit ... :-) ). > > Colin McGregor I noticed in the article you mentioned that there were some Fedora DVDs that weren't shipped on time; do you still have any of these for sale or to give away? I'm really in need of one for FC5 since my CD writer is producing one good disc for every 10 bad discs. Thanks, Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 14:13:46 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:13:46 +0000 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <20060509021001.GA12860-Xa+LbO3DC1G2Q0qicKDiVp4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <200605090132.07721.mervc@eol.ca> <20060509021001.GA12860@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200605101413.46601.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 09 May 2006 02:10, Robin Humble wrote: > the easiest way is to eg. > yum install koffice kyum k3b ... > which'll download those apps from a yum mirror and automatically drag in > all the dependancies with it... or you can try and optimise things and rpm > -Uvh a file of rpms off the fc5 dvd... Thanks for the suggestions. I'll play with it some more, hopefully YUM will install enough from the DVD that I can see if I want to spend more time with it. I really don't want to RPM a lot of things from the DVD, if Yum can't use the DVD, then its over. At least I'm not having Annaconda problems. And as one user said, if you don't want to,be a beta tester, stay away. Well I have not used Red Hat regularly since 6.?, and it seems it will stay that way. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 15:05:48 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:05:48 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft - May 16 - Software Design Principles from Gaming (Part 3) Message-ID: <1147273548.5049.8.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> PegaSoft Monthly Linux / Open Source Dinner Meeting Time: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 7:00 pm Location : East Side Marios Corner of North Queen in the Queensway close to Hwy 427 in front of Sherway Gardens mall. Agenda : Linux News Open Forum PegaSoft Member Project Updates PegaSoft's Annual Linux Summer Retreat Talk : Software Design Principles from Gaming (Part 3) "A System for Managing Game Entities" by Matthew Harmon from the book "Game Programming Gems IV". Creating a structure for the organization and inter-communication of cooperating objects in a computer game setting. Reviewed by Ken Burtch (deferred from last month) PegaSoft Canada is an association of Linux consultants based in Toronto, Canada. PegaSoft members meet at regular dinner meetings to discuss the latest trends and opportunities in Linux and work together to develop great new Linux software. Our goal is to act both as a programmer resource and to promote projects developed by our members. Events are posted on http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming so we can book enough table space at the restaurant. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 15:44:11 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:44:11 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147216598.8698.1.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060510154411.GF2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 07:16:38PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... Most firefox lockups/crashes I have seen happen when the flash plugin is loaded and in use. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 15:48:33 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:48:33 -0400 Subject: How do I use rsync to update a Debian distro? In-Reply-To: <1147257548.31648.6.camel@gandalf> References: <1147257548.31648.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060510154833.GG2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 06:39:08AM -0400, Paul King wrote: > I just downloaded an ISO which the jigdo-lite script says has 285 > missing files. I re-did the download to recover these files (as the > script suggested I do) and saw that nearly all of them were not found on > the remote server. Jigdo appears to suggest that if this happens, it > would mean that these files would have been updated since the local file > list was downloaded, and suggests that I use rsync. Also make sure your jigdo and template files are current. If they are from an older version, then the files that changed would be missing. I have forgotten to download new files before when I had interrupted a jigdo download partway through and went to continue it later. > Trouble is, I haven't used rsync before, and would like to know how one > uses it to update a hypothetical ISO file such as > "bad_jigdo_download.iso.tmp" from a server, say: > "ftp://ftp.foo.debian.org/debian" - and can I use just any server, or > should I use the same one I used for jigdo? No to do an rsync update to complete an image you would have to find a mirror that has the cdimage of the same version as you and then ask rsync to retrive that onto your existing image (I recomend making a backup of the image first). Something like: rsync -v --progress --partial rsync://somemirror/debian/path/debian-image.iso local-debian-image.iso Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 16:40:13 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: References: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > I noticed in the article you mentioned that there were some Fedora DVDs > that weren't shipped on time; do you still have any of these for sale or > to give away? I'm really in need of one for FC5 since my CD writer is > producing one good disc for every 10 bad discs. > > Thanks, Yes, I have 300 of them. I'll leave some at linuxcaffe.ca later this week, and want to hand in some to the TLUG, but couldn't make it to the TLUG meeting last night. I'll try to bring them to the UU meeting tonight if there's one. Alternatively, you can request one here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=freemedia.html and I will send it to you in a few days. --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 16:55:44 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060510165544.91595.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Wed, 10 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > > > I noticed in the article you mentioned that there > were some Fedora DVDs > > that weren't shipped on time; do you still have > any of these for sale or > > to give away? I'm really in need of one for FC5 > since my CD writer is > > producing one good disc for every 10 bad discs. > > > > Thanks, > > Yes, I have 300 of them. I'll leave some at > linuxcaffe.ca later > this week, and want to hand in some to the TLUG, but > couldn't > make it to the TLUG meeting last night. I'll try to > bring them > to the UU meeting tonight if there's one. There will be a UU meeting tonight, and I would be delighted to get a large percentage of those DVDs from you then. I want one for myself (the box that I use for article experiments is a Fedora box, and being able to reinstall without flipping between upteen CD-ROMs would be nice). As well, I want a bunch DVDs that can be passed on to/out at NewTLUG and WestLUG would be great. > Alternatively, you can request one here: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=freemedia.html > > and I will send it to you in a few days. > > --behdad > http://behdad.org/ > > "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two > says Blood Will Spill" > -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 17:59:45 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 10 May 2006 13:59:45 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060510102606.GA1961@localhost> References: <1146679494.7416.14.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> <445F6BE0.3090209@utoronto.ca> <20060509104420.GC9451@localhost> <44612DB9.3090508@rogers.com> <20060510102606.GA1961@localhost> Message-ID: Scott Allen writes: > On Tue May 09,2006 08:03:05 PM James Knott wrote: > > Perhaps everyone should try the site and then call the support > > line for help, when they can't connect. > > The web site has a "Computer Requirements and Settings" link which > specifically states the browser versions and operating systems supported. > > > > > So if you call for help (instead of just to complain) then you're only > showing your ignorance or lack of web savvy. The support person could, > rightly, point you to this page and then tell you to use the mail-in form. Good point. I'm curious if they're using paper vs. on-line response to collect statistics about computer usage. If so, their stats will be bogus. As someone at Statistics Canada might actually be concerned about gathering decent statistics, this might be another way to approach them. Just a thought. > I took a suggestion that I saw posted on this list (sorry, can't remember by > who) and voiced my displeasure in the comments section at the end of the > form. Otherwise known as the let them blow off steam on the form so they don't call us section. :-) -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 18:34:08 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:34:08 -0400 Subject: BBC World Documentary on FOSS Message-ID: <200605101434.08716.jason@detachednetworks.ca> http://www.apdip.net/news/fossdoc From the announcement: "Coming Soon: The Code Breakers ? a BBC World Documentary on FOSS and Development A two-part documentary, ?Code Breakers? will be aired on BBC World TV starting on 10 May 2006. Code Breakers investigates how poor countries are using FOSS applications for development, and includes stories and interviews from around the world. " And most importantly, to go along with the FOSS theme, they state: "Following its ten transmissions on BBC World the documentary will be available copyright-free for broadcast throughout the world." -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 18:42:54 2006 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Drew Sullivan) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:42:54 -0400 Subject: Die Linuxbierwanderung Message-ID: <1147286574.20232.101.camel@drugs.int.iplink.net> >From Mike Kallies As announced at last night's TLUG meeting: As per my blurb yesterday, the LBW is occuring in Lithuania this year. The following URL is the main page for this year's event: http://www.mkuncaitis.com/lbw06/ BEER: http://www.mkuncaitis.com/lbw06/Food&Beer.htm Events of past years are linked through here: http://www.linuxbierwanderung.org/ Being an open event, there's no central website management. Getting volunteers to update old pages can be tough :-) -Mike -- Drew Sullivan Systems Software -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 18:50:30 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:50:30 -0400 Subject: BBC World Documentary on FOSS In-Reply-To: <200605101434.08716.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605101434.08716.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <446235F6.4000101@telly.org> Jason Shein wrote: > http://www.apdip.net/news/fossdoc > It's good to see the Bangkok office of the UNDP involved in this. In my time at LPI I found that the UNDP (and the UN in general) was hamstrung by a major contract with Microsoft (http://news.com.com/2100-1011-5146305.html). In return for MS donating a tons of free licenses (in countries where people couldn't afford them anyway, so they'd either pirate or use FOSS), open source was (and may still be) a dirty word within the organization. Certainly at the head offices in New York and Geneva, open source is officially a curiosity at best. The APDIP office (which I visited twice when it was in Kuala Lumpur) was a refreshing counter-movement inside the organization. Its very existence gives hope that the UN had not totally succumbed to the lure of the MS money and knows the development potential of open source. There is a source-of-pride Canadian connection to all of this. The APDIP established the International Open Source Network (http://www.iosn.net/), whose major source of funding is the Canadian International Development Research Centre. Yes, that means your foreign-aid tax dollars are going to support the promotion of open source in the developing world. Indeed, it is possible to take advantage of that generosity even within Canada. The IOSN has created a number of FOSS primers and other free documentation that can be part of any campaign to introduce and/or teach FOSS concepts to newcomers: http://www.iosn.net/foss-primers - Evan PS: It'll be interesting to see how Microsoft tries to squirm into the picture. In the rich world it fights open source with all its energy, in this documentary it's apparently quoted as having embraced open source. Hmm.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:00:25 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:00:25 -0400 Subject: Is this real? Message-ID: Please tell me this is a joke: http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html I've never seen this blog before (heard about this posting from http://radio3.cbc.ca/blogs/2006/5/Shelley-Hates-Linux), but I can't if this is real or just "tongue-in-cheek". Either way, what a joke. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:12:06 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 10 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > Please tell me this is a joke: > > http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html Yes it is a joke. Somewhere (kind of hidden) on the site is a disclaimer confirming all the blog entries are jokes. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:13:34 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:13:34 -0400 Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0605101313u46bf812dia66ff18e0e8f7931@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/06, Tom Watts wrote: > Please tell me this is a joke: > > http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html > > I've never seen this blog before (heard about this posting from > http://radio3.cbc.ca/blogs/2006/5/Shelley-Hates-Linux), but I can't if > this is real or just "tongue-in-cheek". Either way, what a joke. It must be real. The very thought of Jesus not having American citizenship is no laughing matter. Sign the petition, Jesus must be American! http://shelleytherepublican.com/ -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:25:15 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 15:25:15 -0500 Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990605101325i6ca3d717sf1a04496dd73377@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 10 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > > > Please tell me this is a joke: > > > > http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html > > Yes it is a joke. Somewhere (kind of hidden) on the site is a disclaimer > confirming all the blog entries are jokes. http://shelleytherepublican.com/meaning-and-purpose.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:34:37 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:34:37 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: References: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44624E5D.2090306@pppoe.ca> Behdad Esfahbod wrote: >Yes, I have 300 of them. I'll leave some at linuxcaffe.ca later >this week, and want to hand in some to the TLUG, but couldn't >make it to the TLUG meeting last night. I'll try to bring them >to the UU meeting tonight if there's one. > > Yes, there is: The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 10 May 2006, in room BA 5256 of the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 20:38:26 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: <44624E5D.2090306-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44624E5D.2090306@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 May 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > >Yes, I have 300 of them. I'll leave some at linuxcaffe.ca later > >this week, and want to hand in some to the TLUG, but couldn't > >make it to the TLUG meeting last night. I'll try to bring them > >to the UU meeting tonight if there's one. > > Yes, there is: > > The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at > 6:45 pm on Wednesday 10 May 2006, in room BA 5256 of > the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. > George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Thanks. 100 Fedora Core 5 installation DVDs for x86 are here right now, waiting to be delivered to Colin at 6:45. --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 21:05:05 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060510210505.16952.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Tom Watts wrote: > Please tell me this is a joke: > > http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html > > I've never seen this blog before (heard about this > posting from > http://radio3.cbc.ca/blogs/2006/5/Shelley-Hates-Linux), > but I can't if > this is real or just "tongue-in-cheek". Either way, > what a joke. As has been noted in one of the other postings, yes, the site is a joke. There is a follow-up on the above: http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/2006/05/linux-and-windows-compared-facts.html The above compares RedHat 3 against Micro$oft's latest offerings and is written by a guy who: "For starters my credentials; I am a former IT manager from a major city in Oklahoma. I am also vice-president of IT for our regional Prayer Team. Some years ago I'm proud to say that I graduated as a Microsoft Certified Engineer; I have a wide understanding of both technical and business computing issues. I am sure you will agree that I am exceptionally qualified to speak on this subject." In other words, to put things nicely, the guy comes across as a total jerk... A total jerk who is trolling for Linux fans... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 21:46:05 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:46:05 -0400 Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: <20060510210505.16952.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060510210505.16952.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280605101446n3582eed8wa3de83b011da7e02@mail.gmail.com> I just returned to Toronto after ten years of working at a small university in Georgia. I couldn't tell whether the shellytherepublican article was supposed to be humour or not either because, despite the disclaimer saying "no one is like this," this could far too easily have been written by any number of the students at the university I worked at. Now if the site had suggested sending a crack team into Finland to retrieve and execute Torvalds the same way they retrieved and executed Bin Laden, that would have been funny. While the students were 60-70% Republican, about 95% of the faculty were raving Democrats. But the remaining 5% included some hardcore Baptists who occasionally inspired hugely entertaining flame wars on the faculty mailing lists. But don't forget your asbestos underwear. On 5/10/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > but I can't if > > this is real or just "tongue-in-cheek". Either way, > > what a joke. > > As has been noted in one of the other postings, yes, > the site is a joke. There is a follow-up on the above: -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 21:50:03 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:50:03 -0400 Subject: Is this real? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4462600B.7080202@telly.org> Tom Watts wrote: > http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html > Not bad. Sounds like it came right out of the Colbert Report. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 10 23:43:16 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 02:43:16 +0300 (IDT) Subject: embedded video/xyz object with firefox+plugger+xine ? Message-ID: Hi all, has anyone got html that actually works and places the object in the provided window ? I have made some trials and I am unable to make plugger (I think) pass the real coordinates of the object window to xine. tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 03:37:19 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:37:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Funny picture Message-ID: <1e55af990605102037h47d54166o2005be4e7f96559c@mail.gmail.com> Every so often, I snap a real beauty: http://jrandomhacker.info/Image:DANGER_1920x1200.jpg I've been laughing for some months over this.. and I finally got around to clipping it and uploading it. For more, see: http://jrandomhacker.info/Sy%27s_pics -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 06:59:54 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 09:59:54 +0300 (IDT) Subject: trademark issue solved, the .eu wat Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/05/10/eu.galileo.ap/index.html I like it. It basically says that anyone dumb enough to shell out money on a well-known name as a trademark deserves his Darwin award (well, first mention). Imho, that's the reasonable way to do it. What's not reasonable, is that they had to take it to court. Think about all those consumer products, restaurant chains etc, using common names in their brand, and what it would mean for someone who bears one of those names to be sued to rename his or her personal website, or mom&pop diner. Not that it hasn't happened before. Imho the issue of the powers that be acknowledge public property, such as intellectual property of names by their holders and by the public (even posthumously) (and well-known technologies known to be in the public domain), is a BURNINGLY HOT ISSUE and should be addressed fully now, especially with genetics, alternate medicine and vaccine synthesis methods and so forth making progress. There are several companies which have noted this need and have renamed themselves to meaningful and yet unique names (newly created names which do not clash with existing public intellectual property). What about the others ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 09:37:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 12:37:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: embedded video/xyz object with firefox+plugger+xine ? [solved] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, please disregard the previous message. The solution is 'swallow()' in pluggerrc. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 18:46:40 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 14:46:40 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> Just ran across Google Trends, thought I'd give it a whirl. Including the ceiling (max # of searches in the chart) and describing the "several approximations" used would be helpful I think, but still it's kind of interesting. http://tinyurl.com/ppybs http://www.google.com/trends?q=unix%2C+linux%2C+windows%2C+osx%2C+bsd&ctab=0&date=all&geo=CA -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 20:17:14 2006 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:17:14 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e435080605111317t7dca6914o19c0d91d2554ce24@mail.gmail.com> Just in case you didn't look at the language tab English is "not" the top language, Chinese is. On 5/11/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Just ran across Google Trends, thought I'd give it a whirl. > > Including the ceiling (max # of searches in the chart) and describing > the "several approximations" used would be helpful I think, but still > it's kind of interesting. > > http://tinyurl.com/ppybs > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://w3.avidus.ca/ > > "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, > stand like a rock." > > - Thomas Jefferson > -- -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 20:26:26 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:26:26 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <22e435080605111317t7dca6914o19c0d91d2554ce24-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080605111317t7dca6914o19c0d91d2554ce24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605111326v68e80d8ck369354eb4cab8aed@mail.gmail.com> On 5/11/06, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > Just in case you didn't look at the language tab English is "not" the > top language, Chinese is. Language has no meaning for my purposes. Besides, I was born in the year of the Dragon. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 21:35:10 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Debian/Ubuntu and HP LaserJet 1320 problem Message-ID: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Hi all, At work I have Debian 3.1 Stable and another guy here has Ubuntu Dapper Drake Beta and we both have the same problem. The office has an HP LaserJet 1320 printer with one of those small parallel port to network adapters. We can both print fine in the end, *but*, we both have a problem that when we send a job to the printer, it starts blinking the orange light. Once we walk over and press the green (main) button it prints fine. If we sent two or more jobs at a time we'll have to press the button before each job. Needless to say, this is a touch annoying. The oddest part is that until recently the other guy had an older Mandrake (9.1?) and it didn't do this. When he printed the job would start right away. So I know that it isn't a problem with Linux per-se. That said though, google didn't yield any clues (that I could find). So any help would be much appreciated! grr, printers! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 20:52:16 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:52:16 -0400 Subject: Debian/Ubuntu and HP LaserJet 1320 problem In-Reply-To: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200605111652.16883.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Thursday 11 May 2006 17:35, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > At work I have Debian 3.1 Stable and another guy here has Ubuntu Dapper > Drake Beta and we both have the same problem. The office has an HP > LaserJet 1320 printer with one of those small parallel port to network > adapters. We can both print fine in the end, *but*, we both have a > problem that when we send a job to the printer, it starts blinking the > orange light. Once we walk over and press the green (main) button it > prints fine. If we sent two or more jobs at a time we'll have to press > the button before each job. > > Needless to say, this is a touch annoying. > > The oddest part is that until recently the other guy had an older > Mandrake (9.1?) and it didn't do this. When he printed the job would > start right away. So I know that it isn't a problem with Linux per-se. > That said though, google didn't yield any clues (that I could find). So > any help would be much appreciated! > > grr, printers! > > Madison From linuxprinting.org: http://linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-LaserJet_1320 Under the user notes section I found this: --snip-- - Using HP_LaserJet_1320_Series.ppd I get a blinky yellow warning light when I turn on duplex printing in the cups admin GUI. To reset, open and close the front panel. With duplex off, seems okay. How do you get duplex working? - (update) turning on draft and it prints duplex. I think the copier paper I'm using is the issue. I have setup cups to have both a duplex and a non-duplex printer. But the duplex printer is not printing duplex, even if I use lpr -P Duplex fil.ps -I can confirm that duplex only works in draft mode. (regardless of the paper) --snip-- And are you using the new HPLIP drivers from http://hpinkjet.sf.net/ or are you running the older drivers? You have the choice between using the new and old drivers on Ubuntu. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 21:56:46 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:56:46 -0400 Subject: Debian CD archives with apparently meaningless filenames Message-ID: <1147384606.16618.7.camel@gandalf> I have downloaded 2 DVDs so far, and am still trying to complete DVD#3. The script says that 980 files are missing, but The filenames I was able to check out tend to be something along the lines of "9S1ixqjJm0DbUYCan1HtAQ" from a part of the Debian archive called "/pub/debian-superseded". Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 22:36:26 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:36:26 -0400 Subject: [Humor] Meeting Topic Request Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605111536gcf3bdd1u9a992ee6722dea4b@mail.gmail.com> TLUG in Court! Kangaroo Court that is, lol. ( MC'd by Mr. Sullivan maybe? ;D ) -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 22:53:38 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:53:38 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1147230699.9443.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1147388018.4486.3.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Seems to be fine with flashblock. Never heard of it before. Thanks for the tip(s) RickT On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 11:04 +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Tue, 9 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > Well now I've installed Macromedia flash player and I have the same > > problem with Firefox 1.5.0.2 as with 1.0. I use macromedia to look at > > theweathernetwork.ca. If I disable java anad javascript the problem goes > > away. This is new as of the last week since I've had flawless > > performance with Firefox 1.0 till now. I still need java to access other > > sites... > > I have Javascript on and Flash on, but I use the Flashblock extension so > Flash does not start right away. Try to load this extension imho, and > set it to work (you will see a 'f' icon in Flash windows, they will play > only after you click on it). > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 11 22:53:05 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 18:53:05 -0400 Subject: (Correction)Debian CD archives with apparently meaningless f Message-ID: <44638811.24096.29AD99@pking123.sympatico.ca> Sorry. The question I wanted to ask is would anyone know if these files really matter? Paul King ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Subject: [TLUG]: Debian CD archives with apparently meaningless filenames From: Paul King To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date sent: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:56:46 -0400 Send reply to: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org I have downloaded 2 DVDs so far, and am still trying to complete DVD#3. The script says that 980 files are missing, but The filenames I was able to check out tend to be something along the lines of "9S1ixqjJm0DbUYCan1HtAQ" from a part of the Debian archive called "/pub/debian-superseded". Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 00:22:32 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 20:22:32 -0400 Subject: Debian/Ubuntu and HP LaserJet 1320 problem In-Reply-To: <200605111652.16883.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> <200605111652.16883.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <4463D548.8090604@alteeve.com> Jason Shein wrote: > On Thursday 11 May 2006 17:35, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> At work I have Debian 3.1 Stable and another guy here has Ubuntu Dapper >> Drake Beta and we both have the same problem. The office has an HP >> LaserJet 1320 printer with one of those small parallel port to network >> adapters. We can both print fine in the end, *but*, we both have a >> problem that when we send a job to the printer, it starts blinking the >> orange light. Once we walk over and press the green (main) button it >> prints fine. If we sent two or more jobs at a time we'll have to press >> the button before each job. >> >> Needless to say, this is a touch annoying. >> >> The oddest part is that until recently the other guy had an older >> Mandrake (9.1?) and it didn't do this. When he printed the job would >> start right away. So I know that it isn't a problem with Linux per-se. >> That said though, google didn't yield any clues (that I could find). So >> any help would be much appreciated! >> >> grr, printers! >> >> Madison > > >>From linuxprinting.org: > http://linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-LaserJet_1320 > > Under the user notes section I found this: > > --snip-- > > - Using HP_LaserJet_1320_Series.ppd I get a blinky yellow warning light when I > turn on duplex printing in the cups admin GUI. To reset, open and close the > front panel. With duplex off, seems okay. How do you get duplex working? > - (update) turning on draft and it prints duplex. I think the copier paper > I'm > using is the issue. > > I have setup cups to have both a duplex and a non-duplex printer. But the > duplex printer is not printing duplex, even if I use lpr -P Duplex fil.ps > > -I can confirm that duplex only works in draft mode. (regardless of the paper) > > --snip-- > > And are you using the new HPLIP drivers from http://hpinkjet.sf.net/ or are > you running the older drivers? You have the choice between using the new and > old drivers on Ubuntu. > The shell script on that page did he trick, thank you!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 11:43:49 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 07:43:49 -0400 Subject: Debian/Ubuntu and HP LaserJet 1320 problem In-Reply-To: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <27057.66.135.96.43.1147383310.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <446474F5.60607@georgetown.wehave.net> Madison Kelly wrote: > At work I have Debian 3.1 Stable and another guy here has Ubuntu Dapper > Drake Beta and we both have the same problem. The office has an HP > LaserJet 1320 printer with one of those small parallel port to network > adapters. We can both print fine in the end, *but*, we both have a > problem that when we send a job to the printer, it starts blinking the > orange light. Once we walk over and press the green (main) button it > prints fine. If we sent two or more jobs at a time we'll have to press > the button before each job. You may also want to look at parallel port settings in your BIOS. I couldn't print when I got a new computer despite the fact that I had just moved an existing install from one box to another. It turned out to be the parallel port settings ECP/EPP/SPP/??? - the data light would blink but nothing would print. Only the SPP setting results in a functional printer. My printer is a Samsung QL5100A. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 14:32:48 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 10:32:48 -0400 Subject: FC4: repomd.xml: Error 256 Message-ID: <44646450.11502.CF6B84@pking123.sympatico.ca> I tried to update a package using yum and got this error: Cannot open/read repomd.xml file for repository: xcyb-stable failure: repodata/repomd.xml from xcyb-stable: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to try. I looked this up on the web, and I find that this is due to the fact that the mirror which yum tried had a corrupt xml file. Anyone knows of a decent mirror site? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 14:41:11 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 10:41:11 -0400 Subject: FC4: repomd.xml: Error 256 In-Reply-To: <44646450.11502.CF6B84-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <44646450.11502.CF6B84@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <44649E87.2090702@utoronto.ca> Paul King wrote: > I tried to update a package using yum and got this error: > > Cannot open/read repomd.xml file for repository: xcyb-stable > failure: repodata/repomd.xml from xcyb-stable: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to > try. > > I looked this up on the web, and I find that this is due to the fact that the > mirror which yum tried had a corrupt xml file. Anyone knows of a decent mirror > site? Try http://tank.cns.utoronto.ca/fedora/ Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 14:42:34 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 09:42:34 -0500 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/11/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Just ran across Google Trends, thought I'd give it a whirl. Hey neat. "sex" is searched for more often than "porn", and "girls" and "porn" were nearly tied for a little bit. "xxx" is apparently not catchy enough: http://www.google.com/trends?q=xxx%2C+porn%2C+sex&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all (I had to check) I can also see the slow decline of Slackware and Redhat: http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 14:47:31 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 10:47:31 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 09:42:34AM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/11/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Just ran across Google Trends, thought I'd give it a whirl. > > I can also see the slow decline of Slackware and Redhat: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all rather more interesting when charted agianst debian and ubuntu: http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all actually makes ubuntu look a bit scary... matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 15:01:01 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 11:01:01 -0400 Subject: FC4: repomd.xml: Error 256 In-Reply-To: <44649E87.2090702-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44646450.11502.CF6B84@pking123.sympatico.ca> <44649E87.2090702@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1147446061.3152.6.camel@gandalf> You have suggested a mirror site for Fedora. That is not exactly what is needed. WHat is needed is a parseable copy of an xml file (probably the same name as my local file: repomd.xml) which satisfies yum. Apparently, there is something wrong with the copy it appears to refer to, located at: http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/repo It has been said in other discussion lists that a broken remote repo file shouldn't crash yum; but it does. Surely duke.edu is not the only repo file on the internet. Funny thing, though, when I used wget on the url, the result was what looks like an xml header. I don't know xml, but I can see that there does not appear to be any open tags that would crash a parser. Here is what wget fetched: =================================START====================== ==================================END======================= Paul King On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 10:41 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Paul King wrote: > > I tried to update a package using yum and got this error: > > > > Cannot open/read repomd.xml file for repository: xcyb-stable > > failure: repodata/repomd.xml from xcyb-stable: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to > > try. > > > > I looked this up on the web, and I find that this is due to the fact that the > > mirror which yum tried had a corrupt xml file. Anyone knows of a decent mirror > > site? > > Try http://tank.cns.utoronto.ca/fedora/ > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 15:35:59 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 11:35:59 -0400 Subject: FC4: repomd.xml: Error 256 In-Reply-To: <1147446061.3152.6.camel@gandalf> References: <44646450.11502.CF6B84@pking123.sympatico.ca> <44649E87.2090702@utoronto.ca> <1147446061.3152.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <4464AB5F.8020901@utoronto.ca> Paul King wrote: > You have suggested a mirror site for Fedora. That is not exactly what is > needed. WHat is needed is a parseable copy of an xml file (probably the > same name as my local file: repomd.xml) which satisfies yum. Apparently, > there is something wrong with the copy it appears to refer to, located > at: http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/repo > > It has been said in other discussion lists that a broken remote repo > file shouldn't crash yum; but it does. Surely duke.edu is not the only > repo file on the internet. > > Funny thing, though, when I used wget on the url, the result was what > looks like an xml header. I don't know xml, but I can see that there > does not appear to be any open tags that would crash a parser. > > Here is what wget fetched: > =================================START====================== > > > > > > > > > > timestamp CDATA #REQUIRED > href CDATA #REQUIRED > xml:base CDATA #IMPLIED> > ==================================END======================= Try this then? http://tank.cns.utoronto.ca/fedora/core/5/i386/os/repodata/repomd.xml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 15:50:51 2006 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 11:50:51 -0400 Subject: FC5 Pukes on my machine In-Reply-To: <200605101413.46601.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1147049201.4331.5.camel@gandalf> <200605090132.07721.mervc@eol.ca> <20060509021001.GA12860@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> <200605101413.46601.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060512155051.GA14636@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> I came across this just now: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq it looks at fedora upgrades via yum. the fc4->fc5 description there matches my experience - totaly painless except for a trivial fix with the much hated selinux (or just boot with selinux=0). cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 16:00:27 2006 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 12:00:27 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <20060512144731.GH15057-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060512160027.GB14636@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 10:47:31AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 09:42:34AM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: >rather more interesting when charted agianst debian and ubuntu: >http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all but as redhat dips, so fedora rises (well, kinda): http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+fedora&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 16:03:30 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 12:03:30 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <20060512144731.GH15057-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/12/06, Matt Price wrote: > > rather more interesting when charted agianst debian and ubuntu: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all > > actually makes ubuntu look a bit scary... > > matt Makes sense... more "new" users to Ubuntu, requiring more searching for help. At least that's what I would deduce... -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 16:32:12 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 12:32:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] Funny picture In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605102037h47d54166o2005be4e7f96559c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605102037h47d54166o2005be4e7f96559c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1147451532.4714.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Or how about: http://www.kissmyfloppy.com/pages/pictures.php?id=273 from http://www.kissmyfloppy.com/pages/pictures.php?category=microsoft RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 23:37 -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > Every so often, I snap a real beauty: > http://jrandomhacker.info/Image:DANGER_1920x1200.jpg > > I've been laughing for some months over this.. and I finally got > around to clipping it and uploading it. > > > For more, see: > http://jrandomhacker.info/Sy%27s_pics > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 16:54:11 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (lfeder) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 12:54:11 -0400 Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB Message-ID: I have a RHEL4 server that takes up 13GB diskspace of a 80GB drive. It was 73GB, I deleted 60GB of data, so now it uses only 13GB of diskspace I used to use Ranish Partition Manager on the Ultimate Boot CD to copy the disk to disk. But now if I do that, it is copying 60GB of empty data. . I would like to move this RHEL4 into a 20GB drive. I though about hooking up the 20GB, formatting it, with a ext3 and swap and then cp'ing it all over. Or maybe use dump? What are the best options? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 17:15:27 2006 From: al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Alex Marandon) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 19:15:27 +0200 Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060512171527.GA31866@alpage.org> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 12:54:11PM -0400, lfeder wrote: > I though about hooking up the 20GB, formatting it, with a ext3 and swap and > then cp'ing it all over. I had to do that recently and I used rsync with its -a option which preserve file attributes. I also used --exclude to prevent the recursive copy of the directory where the target partition was mounted. Then I just had to run lilo to let it find the new location of my kernel. Good luck :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 17:27:00 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 13:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB In-Reply-To: <20060512171527.GA31866-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20060512171527.GA31866@alpage.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 May 2006, Alex Marandon wrote: > I had to do that recently and I used rsync with its -a option which I wouldn't use rsync for that. It is _really_ slow in comparison to the alternatives. The canonical answer is "tar" but alternatives include cpio or even dump. For XFS the recommended solution is xfsdump. For tar it is worth using -X. Eg: tar -X /tmp/exclude.file -cf alldata.tar / /tmp/exclude.file should include, as a minimum: /cdrom /floppy /mnt /proc /tmp /var/tmp Stop reading here unless you're really keen :) It is possible to pipe data directly from one tar to another, even over ssh, to avoid the need to create a seperate tar file. More info here: http://www.opentrend.net/movingfilesystems.shtml These instructions are a bit scanty, I need to add to that. The exact syntax has varied between different versions of Gnu tar as well. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 17:36:52 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 13:36:52 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <20060512160027.GB14636-Xa+LbO3DC1G2Q0qicKDiVp4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> <20060512160027.GB14636@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1147455412.24620.255.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 12:00 -0400, Robin Humble wrote: > but as redhat dips, so fedora rises (well, kinda): > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+fedora&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all Not to mention "redhat" and "red hat" both give different results and there doesn't seem to be a way to combine them. If you did then Red Hat would fare much better. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 17:45:24 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 13:45:24 -0400 Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB In-Reply-To: References: <20060512171527.GA31866@alpage.org> Message-ID: <1147455924.24620.266.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 13:27 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > For tar it is worth using -X. Eg: > > tar -X /tmp/exclude.file -cf alldata.tar / > > /tmp/exclude.file should include, as a minimum: > > /cdrom > /floppy > /mnt > /proc > /tmp > /var/tmp I always recommend that you use the -l (dash ell) a.k.a. --one-file-system. Then specify all the file systems that you want backed up on the command line. This is usually simpler than exclusions. I use exclusions to remove big files or dirs that I want to get rid of. e.g. tar -clf alldata.tar / /usr /var /home Like Rob said pipes are great: tar -clf - / /usr /var /home /tmp | ssh root-evScllzyGZOxBppYLAEN5wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org "tar -xvf -" -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 18:22:59 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:22:59 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada 2006 article In-Reply-To: References: <20060509111858.77893.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44624E5D.2090306@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: Just an FYI... both Linux Format (linuxformat.co.uk) and Linux Magazine (linux-magazine.com) have Fedora Core 5 DVDs in their current issues. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 18:42:16 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:42:16 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060512184216.GH2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 09:42:34AM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > Hey neat. "sex" is searched for more often than "porn", and "girls" > and "porn" were nearly tied for a little bit. "xxx" is apparently not > catchy enough: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=xxx%2C+porn%2C+sex&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all > (I had to check) > > I can also see the slow decline of Slackware and Redhat: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all How about: http://www.google.com/trends?q=debian%2C++redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+slackware&ctab=2&geo=CA&date=all Interesting trend I think. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 18:42:42 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:42:42 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <20060512144731.GH15057-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060512184242.GI2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 10:47:31AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > rather more interesting when charted agianst debian and ubuntu: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all > > actually makes ubuntu look a bit scary... Darn, beat me to it. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 18:46:16 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:46:16 -0400 Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060512184616.GJ2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 12:54:11PM -0400, lfeder wrote: > I have a RHEL4 server that takes up 13GB diskspace of a 80GB drive. > > It was 73GB, I deleted 60GB of data, so now it uses only 13GB of diskspace > > I used to use Ranish Partition Manager on the Ultimate Boot CD to copy the > disk to disk. > > But now if I do that, it is copying 60GB of empty data. > > . > > I would like to move this RHEL4 into a 20GB drive. > > I though about hooking up the 20GB, formatting it, with a ext3 and swap and > then cp'ing it all over. > > Or maybe use dump? > > What are the best options? cp -ax / /newroot Worked many times for me before. Or maybe parted will resize the current drive down to 20GB so you can copy it (cp -ax is faster and safer I think). Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 19:02:10 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 15:02:10 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <20060512184242.GI2836-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990605120742t10bdaff7t81882db8999f171f@mail.gmail.com> <20060512144731.GH15057@utoronto.ca> <20060512184242.GI2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060512190210.GC26236@utoronto.ca> On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 02:42:42PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 10:47:31AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > rather more interesting when charted agianst debian and ubuntu: > > http://www.google.com/trends?q=Slackware%2C+Redhat%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian&ctab=0&geo=CA&date=all > > > > actually makes ubuntu look a bit scary... > > Darn, beat me to it. ha! that makes one. I will try to get to 3 before I retire. matt > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri May 12 22:01:51 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Online Rights Canada Launches Action Center Message-ID: <446505CF.4040505@pppoe.ca> EFFector Special Action Alert, May 12, 2006 action-juUERV/Fi2c at public.gmane.org * Online Rights Canada Launches Action Center Last year, Online Rights Canada (ORC) launched with the joint support of EFF and the Canadian Internet Policy & Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC). ORC represents the public interest in critical technology and information policy issues, and, through its brand new Action Center, you can make your voice heard. During the last Parliament, Bill C-60 provided some sensible approaches to copyright reform in Canada, but it also left lots of room for improvement. That's why people from across the country worked together to tell the last government that new copyright laws should balance demands from the copyright industry against the public interest. Today, rumours from Ottawa indicate that this message needs to be delivered again. You can help by sending your MP an email: New Ministers Bev Oda of Canadian Heritage and Maxime Bernier of Industry have been conducting an investigation into copyright reform and could finalize a position on draft legislation within weeks. It's vital that you tell your MP that any new law should be an improvement on Bill C-60, not the retreat being urged by big copyright holders. If we act now, during the research period, we will have a much greater impact than if we wait until new legislation is making its way through Parliament. Take a moment to make your voice heard on this important issue: For more ORC action items: To donate to ORC: : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : EFF is a member-supported nonprofit Make a donation and become a member today! : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : * Administrivia EFFector Special Alert is published by: The Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street San Francisco CA 94110-1914 USA +1 415 436 9333 (voice) +1 415 436 9993 (fax) Editor: Derek Slater, Activist derek-juUERV/Fi2c at public.gmane.org Membership & donation queries: membership-juUERV/Fi2c at public.gmane.org General EFF, legal, policy, or online resources queries: information-juUERV/Fi2c at public.gmane.org The EFF Special Action Alert is an occasional email targeted to EFFector subscribers who can make an impact on a specific issue. You can subscribe to EFFector without subscribing to these special alerts. Reproduction of this publication in electronic media is encouraged. To reproduce signed articles individually, please contact the authors for their express permission. Press releases and EFF announcements & articles may be reproduced individually at will. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 00:35:12 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 20:35:12 -0400 Subject: Howto move a 13GB filesystem on80GB into a 20GB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <446529C0.6000204@utoronto.ca> lfeder wrote: > > > I have a RHEL4 server that takes up 13GB diskspace of a 80GB drive. > > It was 73GB, I deleted 60GB of data, so now it uses only 13GB of diskspace > > I used to use Ranish Partition Manager on the Ultimate Boot CD to copy > the disk to disk. > > But now if I do that, it is copying 60GB of empty data. > Can't you copy partitions with Ranish? You can with parted. Matter of fact there are parted floppy boot images out there. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 00:58:46 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 20:58:46 -0400 Subject: Google Trends: Canadian searches on the big 5 OS's In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0605111146pf1c7ec9sfc18c05864340813@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44652F46.2050703@utoronto.ca> Hmmm, if one is already using say Debian they're probably not going to search for it. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 05:42:00 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 01:42:00 -0400 Subject: Kernel and hardware detection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060513054200.GA17600@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 11:51:52AM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote > Hi, > > I'm trying to create a Knoppix remaster. Unfortunately, Knoppix 4.0.2 > has some serious issues with some PCI *hardware* modems > (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21064&highlight=detect+pci+modem), > and sure enough my USR PCI hardware modem is not detected. > > I'm using the book "Hacking Knoppix" and it shows details on > installing and configuring a different kernel in your remaster. I was > thinking of getting one of the Kanotix kernels (a Knoppix remaster > which DOES detect my modem properly). > > Can someone tell me if this is the correct action to take... basically > is hardware detecting functions contained in the kernel?? I'm using > VMware to remaster, so I don't mind doing a little experimenting if I > am on the right track. I'm a bit late with the reply, but here goes. Are you familiar with building your own kernel via "make config"? Try the following menu path... Device Drivers ---> Character devices ---> Serial drivers ---> (32) Maximum number of 8250/16550 serial ports The default is 4, i.e. ttyS0..ttyS3 (COM1:..COM4 in DOS). My 1999 Dell has a USR PCI internal modem which always shows up as /dev/ttyS4. If I don't over-ride the default, the internal modem is not detected by pppconfig. I've seen reports of some people's modems showing up as /dev/ttyS14 (COM15: !!!), so I suggest a high value to play it safe. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 06:30:32 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 09:30:32 +0300 Subject: Printer issues - NRG C7425hdn printer Message-ID: Hi all, I am having a problem setting up Redhat EL 4 to use a NRG printer above. The reason being, when you use system-config-pinter script and you reach the stage where you have to select the printer's vendor, NRG doesn't appear as an option. I have tried using the generic driver and it doesn't seem that helpful. Now, I would be very grateful if someone out there who have worked with this particular printer with some success would share his/her experience with us. NRG is not mentioned anywhere on Redhat website which make me suspect they may not be supported. Someone could however have figured out a way of working within this constraint and that is the advice I am seeking. Thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 06:31:22 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 02:31:22 -0400 Subject: Kernel and hardware detection In-Reply-To: <20060513054200.GA17600-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060513054200.GA17600@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 5/13/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 11:51:52AM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote > > Hi, > > > > I'm trying to create a Knoppix remaster. Unfortunately, Knoppix 4.0.2 > > has some serious issues with some PCI *hardware* modems > > (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21064&highlight=detect+pci+modem), > > and sure enough my USR PCI hardware modem is not detected. > > > > I'm using the book "Hacking Knoppix" and it shows details on > > installing and configuring a different kernel in your remaster. I was > > thinking of getting one of the Kanotix kernels (a Knoppix remaster > > which DOES detect my modem properly). > > > > Can someone tell me if this is the correct action to take... basically > > is hardware detecting functions contained in the kernel?? I'm using > > VMware to remaster, so I don't mind doing a little experimenting if I > > am on the right track. > > I'm a bit late with the reply, but here goes. Are you familiar with > building your own kernel via "make config"? Try the following menu > path... > > Device Drivers ---> > Character devices ---> > Serial drivers ---> > (32) Maximum number of 8250/16550 serial ports > > The default is 4, i.e. ttyS0..ttyS3 (COM1:..COM4 in DOS). My 1999 > Dell has a USR PCI internal modem which always shows up as /dev/ttyS4. > If I don't over-ride the default, the internal modem is not detected by > pppconfig. I've seen reports of some people's modems showing up as > /dev/ttyS14 (COM15: !!!), so I suggest a high value to play it safe. > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca Thank you very much. Mine usually shows up as ttyS4... and oddly enough, with some distros, ttyS14! And some others, ttyS0 (which I guess uses a routine to stick the first one it comes to on ttyS0). I will give it a try. Thanks for the info. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 08:00:15 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 11:00:15 +0300 Subject: Printer issues - NRG C7425hdn printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some more information on the printer issue Here is the error log if I choose a generic printer with PLC 5 filter 41:02 +0300] Adding start banner page "none" to job 1. I [13/May/2006:10:41:02 +0300] Adding end banner page "none" to job 1. I [13/May/2006:10:41:02 +0300] Job 1 queued on 'printer12' by 'root'. I [13/May/2006:10:41:02 +0300] Started filter /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstops (PID 3755) for job 1. I [13/May/2006:10:41:02 +0300] Started filter /usr/lib/cups/filter/foomatic-rip (PID 3756) for job 1. I [13/May/2006:10:41:02 +0300] Started backend /usr/lib/cups/backend/ipp (PID 3757) for job 1. E [13/May/2006:10:41:15 +0300] [Job 1] Destination printer does not exist! E [13/May/2006:10:41:15 +0300] PID 3757 stopped with status 1! I [13/May/2006:10:41:15 +0300] Hint: Try setting the LogLevel to "debug" to find out more. I [13/May/2006:10:41:15 +0300] Saving printers.conf... Can't understand DeviceURI: ipp://oki Oddly, it say destination printer don't exist. This don't make sense though if one consider the nmap response below nmap -O 192.168.1.39 Starting nmap 3.70 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-05-13 10:53 EAT Interesting ports on 192.168.1.39: (The 1652 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) PORT STATE SERVICE 21/tcp open ftp 23/tcp open telnet 80/tcp open http 139/tcp open netbios-ssn 514/tcp open shell 515/tcp open printer 631/tcp open ipp 9100/tcp open jetdirect MAC Address: 00:00:74:8E:BD:1F (Ricoh Company) Device type: general purpose Running: NetBSD OS details: NetBSD 1.3I through 1.6 Uptime 0.779 days (since Fri May 12 16:12:03 2006) Can someone see what else I should probe from these logs. William On 13/05/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi all, > I am having a problem setting up Redhat EL 4 to use a NRG printer above. > The reason being, when you use system-config-pinter script and you reach the > stage where you have to select the printer's vendor, NRG doesn't appear as > an option. I have tried using the generic driver and it doesn't seem that > helpful. > Now, I would be very grateful if someone out there who have worked with > this particular printer with some success would share his/her experience > with us. NRG is not mentioned anywhere on Redhat website which make me > suspect they may not be supported. Someone could however have figured out a > way of working within this constraint and that is the advice I am seeking. > > Thanks in advance > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 14:18:56 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 10:18:56 -0400 Subject: NRG C7425hdn printer Message-ID: <4465EAD0.30103@rogers.com> According to this page from Linux Printing your printer uses the generic postscript driver. http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=NRG-C7425hdn HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 18:28:52 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 14:28:52 -0400 Subject: Kernel and hardware detection In-Reply-To: References: <20060513054200.GA17600@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060513182851.GA18865@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 02:31:22AM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote > On 5/13/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > > I'm a bit late with the reply, but here goes. Are you familiar with > >building your own kernel via "make config"? Try the following menu > >path... Arrrrgh... that should be "make menuconfig". That's what I get for staying up late surfing the web. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 19:11:08 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 22:11:08 +0300 (IDT) Subject: openh323 compilation problem Message-ID: Hi all, has anyone here compiled openh323 from sources, and if so, with what gcc/g++ version ? I get some nasty errors due to some C++ problems in ld. tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 13 22:32:08 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 18:32:08 -0400 Subject: Debian Etch Message-ID: <1147559528.8932.6.camel@gandalf> Hello After hearing someone say something nice about the testing suite of Debian (Etch), I downloaded it and attempted an install. There was a problem right off with hardware detection. It not only detected my hardware, but even hardware that didn't exist (wrong MB, wrong IDE card, etc.). While it loaded the right module for my network card (ne2k-pci), it failed to connect to a network. So, I decided etch wasn't for me. I thought it would be good, because my hardware is not bleeding-edge, and so there would be a greater chance of configuration. I guess I was wrong. Anyone else have a similar problem with Etch? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 02:45:28 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 22:45:28 -0400 Subject: Printer issues - NRG C7425hdn printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/13/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Can someone see what else I should probe from these logs. Could you send us the output of the lpstat -p command? Also, can you print a document then immediately after, 5 or 6 times, run lpstat -p and send us the total output? Also, could you visit the CUPS status page at http://localhost:631 and enter "root" as the username and your root password and go to Status and send us all the info you can find out? Please CC me directly when you reply. Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 02:47:59 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 22:47:59 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all Message-ID: Ha! "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on reality. That's pretty cool. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 03:00:57 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 23:00:57 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44669D69.5050605@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Ha! > > "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction > for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > > http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > > This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from > taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > reality. That's pretty cool. It appears complaining may have help. When I called for support and complained Linux wasn't supported, I was told a note would be passed on to appropriate people. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 04:02:11 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 00:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 May 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: > Ha! > > "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for > Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > > http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > > This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from taking > the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on reality. > That's pretty cool. The fact that there were enough people who wanted to use Linux to access the site and went on to complain is very telling about the use of Linux as well. Not so long ago there weren't that many people using Linux on the desktop and we were often out in the cold. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 08:30:29 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 11:30:29 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <44669D69.5050605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44669D69.5050605@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> Ha! >> >> "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction >> for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." >> >> http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm >> >> This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from >> taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on >> reality. That's pretty cool. > > It appears complaining may have help. When I called for support and > complained Linux wasn't supported, I was told a note would be passed on > to appropriate people. This is nice. I did not expect such a nice reaction. There is hope! What I was thinking was, how about a standard 'note' or 'letter of complaint' for such cases. Arguing the same issue over and over again is getting old. The letter could be put on a website and anyone needing it would download it, add his or her comments, sign it, and forward it to whomever it may concern. The letter should be *very* short, perhaps containing a link to an online page describing the problem (in general) in more words (but still very few, less than two pages). E.g. the template letter should contain: - Dear Mr/Mrs/Webmaster/Sitemaster/(Site Manager)/(Web Designer) - Concerning your webage/site/form - I would like to complain about it (actively restricting)/(restricting)/(not working) when accessed using the well known viewer/browser/program/os ppppp, which I know to be able to render well content of the type your site contains. - I, and many other users, cannot enjoy the use of your webpage/site/form if you do not take minimal measures to (ensure compatibility with)/(disallow blocking of) well known viewers/browsers/programs/oses. Your lack of support for viewer/browser/program/os ppppp may (cause you to lose up to 20% of traffic)/(may violate my constitutional (?) rights)/(other as appropriate). [NOTE: NO POLITICS HERE] - I know that easy and well known configuration/(web programming) solutions exist, which would make your webage/site/form compatible with the well known viewer/browser/program/os ppppp . Please visit to read more about this. Meanwhile I have taken the liberty to discuss this problem on the [local/country] (mailing list)/(forum)/(newsgroup) nnnnn where I have met other users who could not use your webage/site/form for similar reasons. - The problem I have encountered while trying to use your webage/site/form was: - Thank you, -----end short letter The should contain: - Percentage of well-known open source browsers in use (>20%) - The fact that many users cannot use other operating systems than they are using at the time for a variety of reasons (ranging from IT decisions, through technical issues, to being blind, politics is not everything, it is just trying to be everything). - That there is a market war going on between a convicted monopolist and every other software maker out there, in which there is no trick that is too low to be tried, if it can put the opponents at a disadvantage. - That the main tactic used by the convicted monopolist and its supporters in this war, is that of apparently adopting well known coding standards and subtly altering them to cause incompatibility with well known applications written to comply with the original standards, in the hope to turn users away from them. Short list of precedents: JavaScript, Java, DHTML/Frontpage, incompatible embedded objects (using CLSID= windows registry selector), incompatible media (WMA). - That this big company policy affects everyone in the web and IT business in a very unpleasant and undesirable way, and that it is simply bad for business, and that the monopolists lobbying and politicking approach to technology should not be allowed to interfere with user experience and with the function of a business or government site. - That fortunately, in most cases easy and well known fixes exist, which can be applied by coders, webmasters and sitemasters, to restore compatibility with well known applications in those cases where standards are not respected, and that these can usually be applied in a very short time and at low cost. - Short list of URLs pointing to relevant precedents, as examples: - monopolitst's conviction by a judge and his getting away with it - link to the amount of money spent by the monopolist on lobbying - link to article about netscape suing them for explorer integration - link to article about sun suing them over java and settling out of court - link to article about the ec suing them over media player intergration - link to the open document debacle/Massachusetts - link to the famous visit and handshake that kept Munich off open source - a few more like this (about ten in all). - at least a link to a page that was not compliant before and is now compliant as a result of petitioning by open source users. -----end explanation letter sorry for the long post, Peter PS: Another article on Munich I have not seen before: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 11:17:44 2006 From: geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 7:17:44 -0400 Subject: Debian Etch Message-ID: <20060514111744.DKWF10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Paul, Simply MEPIS developers had a general warning out about the shakiness of etch a couple of months ago. As a result MEPIS is switching over to using Ubuntu repositories instead. However, the situation there is still a bit fluid also. > > From: Paul King > Date: 2006/05/13 Sat PM 06:32:08 EST > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Debian Etch > > Hello > > After hearing someone say something nice about the testing suite of > Debian (Etch), I downloaded it and attempted an install. There was a > problem right off with hardware detection. It not only detected my > hardware, but even hardware that didn't exist (wrong MB, wrong IDE card, > etc.). While it loaded the right module for my network card (ne2k-pci), > it failed to connect to a network. So, I decided etch wasn't for me. > > I thought it would be good, because my hardware is not bleeding-edge, > and so there would be a greater chance of configuration. I guess I was > wrong. Anyone else have a similar problem with Etch? > > Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 11:22:09 2006 From: geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 7:22:09 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all Message-ID: <20060514112209.CDUI1747.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> On Sun, 14 May 2006, Geoff. Mitchell wrote: I just tried it. Firefox still got the same notice. Using Konqueror got me in to the point where when it halted I could paste the link where it gave up back into Firefox and enter my questionnaire number. Finally Firefox stopped working with a complaint that the server was down. Maybe Statcan doesn't have its servers running on Sunday mornings? I hardly think so. > > From: Peter > Date: 2006/05/14 Sun AM 04:30:29 EST > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all > > > On Sat, 13 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > > > Alex Beamish wrote: > >> Ha! > >> > >> "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction > >> for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > >> > >> http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > >> > >> This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from > >> taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > >> reality. That's pretty cool. > > > > It appears complaining may have help. When I called for support and > > complained Linux wasn't supported, I was told a note would be passed on > > to appropriate people. > > This is nice. I did not expect such a nice reaction. There is hope! > > What I was thinking was, how about a standard 'note' or 'letter of > complaint' for such cases. Arguing the same issue over and over again is > getting old. The letter could be put on a website and anyone needing it > would download it, add his or her comments, sign it, and forward it to > whomever it may concern. The letter should be *very* short, perhaps > containing a link to an online page describing the problem (in general) > in more words (but still very few, less than two pages). > > E.g. the template letter should contain: > > - Dear Mr/Mrs/Webmaster/Sitemaster/(Site Manager)/(Web Designer) > > - Concerning your webage/site/form > > - I would like to complain about it (actively restricting)/(restricting)/(not working) > when accessed using the well known viewer/browser/program/os ppppp, > which I know to be able to render well content of the type your site > contains. > > - I, and many other users, cannot enjoy the use of your > webpage/site/form if you do not take minimal measures to (ensure > compatibility with)/(disallow blocking of) well known > viewers/browsers/programs/oses. Your lack of support for > viewer/browser/program/os ppppp may (cause you to lose up to 20% of > traffic)/(may violate my constitutional (?) rights)/(other as > appropriate). [NOTE: NO POLITICS HERE] > > - I know that easy and well known configuration/(web programming) > solutions exist, which would make your webage/site/form compatible with > the well known viewer/browser/program/os ppppp . Please visit > to read more about this. Meanwhile I have taken the > liberty to discuss this problem on the [local/country] (mailing > list)/(forum)/(newsgroup) nnnnn where I have met other users who could > not use your webage/site/form for similar reasons. > > - The problem I have encountered while trying to use your > webage/site/form was: > > - Thank you, > > -----end short letter > > The should contain: > > - Percentage of well-known open source browsers in use (>20%) > - The fact that many users cannot use other operating systems than they > are using at the time for a variety of reasons (ranging from IT > decisions, through technical issues, to being blind, politics is not > everything, it is just trying to be everything). > - That there is a market war going on between a convicted monopolist and > every other software maker out there, in which there is no trick that is > too low to be tried, if it can put the opponents at a disadvantage. > - That the main tactic used by the convicted monopolist and its > supporters in this war, is that of apparently adopting well known coding > standards and subtly altering them to cause incompatibility with well > known applications written to comply with the original standards, in the > hope to turn users away from them. Short list of precedents: JavaScript, > Java, DHTML/Frontpage, incompatible embedded objects (using CLSID= > windows registry selector), incompatible media (WMA). > - That this big company policy affects everyone in the web and IT > business in a very unpleasant and undesirable way, and that it is simply > bad for business, and that the monopolists lobbying and politicking > approach to technology should not be allowed to interfere with user > experience and with the function of a business or government site. > - That fortunately, in most cases easy and well known fixes exist, which > can be applied by coders, webmasters and sitemasters, to restore > compatibility with well known applications in those cases where > standards are not respected, and that these can usually be applied in a > very short time and at low cost. > - Short list of URLs pointing to relevant precedents, as examples: > - monopolitst's conviction by a judge and his getting away with it > - link to the amount of money spent by the monopolist on lobbying > - link to article about netscape suing them for explorer integration > - link to article about sun suing them over java and settling out of court > - link to article about the ec suing them over media player intergration > - link to the open document debacle/Massachusetts > - link to the famous visit and handshake that kept Munich off open source > - a few more like this (about ten in all). > - at least a link to a page that was not compliant before and is now > compliant as a result of petitioning by open source users. > -----end explanation letter > > sorry for the long post, > Peter > > PS: Another article on Munich I have not seen before: > > http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 12:45:09 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 07:45:09 -0500 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44672655.5070302@golden.net> Alex Beamish wrote: > Ha! > > "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction > for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > > http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > > This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from > taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > reality. That's pretty cool. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario Well done Gnu/Linux users. I complained via phone and by message at the end of my survey. They offered to do my survey over the phone however I wanted to leave a message attached so I used the net. Yes it was done on my mothballed win98 box but at least I was running Firefox :-P John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 08:02:18 2006 From: geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (GG.m) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 08:02:18 +0000 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <44672655.5070302-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <44672655.5070302@golden.net> Message-ID: <4466E40A.2020902@sympatico.ca> Geoff. Mitchell wrote: I just got into the Census site using PCLinuxOS, the system I demoed at Linux World and Firefox 1.5.0.1. All was working fine. John Myshrall wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> Ha! >> >> "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction >> for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." >> >> http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm >> >> This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from >> taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on >> reality. That's pretty cool. >> >> -- >> Alex Beamish >> Toronto, Ontario > Well done Gnu/Linux users. > > I complained via phone and by message at the end of my survey. They > offered to do my survey over the phone however I wanted to leave a > message attached so I used the net. Yes it was done on my mothballed > win98 box but at least I was running Firefox :-P > > John > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 12:12:08 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 08:12:08 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44671E98.6090303@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 13 May 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: > >> Ha! >> >> "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for >> Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." >> >> http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm >> >> This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from >> taking >> the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on reality. >> That's pretty cool. > > The fact that there were enough people who wanted to use Linux to access > the site and went on to complain is very telling about the use of Linux > as well. > > Not so long ago there weren't that many people using Linux on the > desktop and we were often out in the cold. I have just completed my census. I had to upgrade Java, even though I already had better than they required. I'm running SUSE 10.0 & Mozilla 1.7.13 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 12:18:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 08:18:41 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: <44669D69.5050605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44672021.5010701@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > On Sat, 13 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > >> Alex Beamish wrote: >>> Ha! >>> >>> "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction >>> for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." >>> >>> http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm >>> >>> This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from >>> taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on >>> reality. That's pretty cool. >> >> It appears complaining may have help. When I called for support and >> complained Linux wasn't supported, I was told a note would be passed on >> to appropriate people. > > This is nice. I did not expect such a nice reaction. There is hope! > > What I was thinking was, how about a standard 'note' or 'letter of > complaint' for such cases. Arguing the same issue over and over again is > getting old. The letter could be put on a website and anyone needing it > would download it, add his or her comments, sign it, and forward it to > whomever it may concern. The letter should be *very* short, perhaps > containing a link to an online page describing the problem (in general) > in more words (but still very few, less than two pages). On problem with such notes is they look like they're organized by someone, rather than being grassroots. There was one such incident, where several people wrote in to oppose something that would impact Microsoft business. However virtually every letter (including some apparently written by dead people) had the same text. It was later shown to be organinzed by MS. That sort of thing hurts your cause far more than it helps. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 12:22:05 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 08:22:05 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <20060514112209.CDUI1747.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net-S6HM6mcWxYWbHxUYzX/Bp7Dks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20060514112209.CDUI1747.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <446720ED.6060100@rogers.com> geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Sun, 14 May 2006, Geoff. Mitchell wrote: > > I just tried it. Firefox still got the same notice. Using Konqueror got me in to the point where when it halted I could paste the link where it gave up back into Firefox and enter my questionnaire number. Finally Firefox stopped working with a complaint that the server was down. Maybe Statcan doesn't have its servers running on Sunday mornings? I hardly think so. I just completed mine, and it's still Sunday morning. However, I had to upgrade Java to 1.5. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 12:34:07 2006 From: frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 08:34:07 -0400 Subject: JXTA on Linux? In-Reply-To: <446720ED.6060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060514112209.CDUI1747.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <446720ED.6060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8C84569D3C22EE5-108-1562A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Hi, I want to install a JXTA chat server on my Linux box. Have you had the experience to be shared? I have installed the Wildfire server and the Spark client. But it does not have audio and vedio. Audio and Vedio chat is easy for JXTA systems. If you have interest on P2P servers, we can have fun together. Thanks. Frank Peng. Home Web Site: https://www.breakevilaxis.org/mvnforum/mvnforum/index?lang=en ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 13:39:39 2006 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 06:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060514133939.1275.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> Hello All, I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. My questions are: 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings Thank you in advance for your response. Regards, Michael --------------------------------- Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 13:54:30 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 16:54:30 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <44672021.5010701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44669D69.5050605@rogers.com> <44672021.5010701@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > On problem with such notes is they look like they're organized by > someone, rather than being grassroots. There was one such incident, > where several people wrote in to oppose something that would impact > Microsoft business. However virtually every letter (including some > apparently written by dead people) had the same text. It was later > shown to be organinzed by MS. That sort of thing hurts your cause far > more than it helps. So then the simple instructions on how to complain properly should be posted. Since they are dotted ideas, they cannot be quoted as such. So everyone would use his/her own words to write what is to be written. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 14:47:54 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 10:47:54 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <20060510154411.GF2836-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060510154411.GF2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1147618074.5826.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> While I initially thought extension 'flashblock' to be the solution to the CNN.COM error with Firefox 1.5.0.2 it now looks like CNN.COM did in fact have some sort of incompatibility that particular day since now I am able to access CNN.COM using Firefox 1.0 with no adverse effects. Firefox 1.0 does not support appear 'flashblock' and/or I do not have it installed on Firefox 1.0. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 11:44 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 07:16:38PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > When I try to load CNN.com my browser freezes. Anyone else notice this? > > CNN seems to be anti-Linux but this is strange... > > Most firefox lockups/crashes I have seen happen when the flash plugin is > loaded and in use. > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 14:50:59 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 10:50:59 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1147618259.5826.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Good!! Government is supposed to represent it's citizens not control them... On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 22:47 -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > Ha! > > "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction > for Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > > http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > > This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from > taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > reality. That's pretty cool. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 15:02:16 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 11:02:16 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <1147618259.5826.5.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147618259.5826.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: I'm mailing mine after reading: http://countmeout.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 15:15:24 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 18:15:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: <1147618074.5826.4.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060510154411.GF2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1147618074.5826.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > While I initially thought extension 'flashblock' to be the solution to > the CNN.COM error with Firefox 1.5.0.2 it now looks like CNN.COM did in > fact have some sort of incompatibility that particular day since now I > am able to access CNN.COM using Firefox 1.0 with no adverse effects. > Firefox 1.0 does not support appear 'flashblock' and/or I do not have it > installed on Firefox 1.0. Ever since Flash has been in use, some advertisements using Flash crash browsers. I do not know why. The flashblock brevents this, but the original issue is with a particular edition of a webpage. Since these change daily, ymmv. The problem may come back in afew days or weeks. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 15:23:04 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 11:23:04 -0400 Subject: CNN crashes my Linux/Firefox browser In-Reply-To: References: <1147216598.8698.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060510154411.GF2836@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1147618074.5826.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1147620184.5826.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> It's good to know 'flash' is the culprit... RickT On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 18:15 +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Sun, 14 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > While I initially thought extension 'flashblock' to be the solution to > > the CNN.COM error with Firefox 1.5.0.2 it now looks like CNN.COM did in > > fact have some sort of incompatibility that particular day since now I > > am able to access CNN.COM using Firefox 1.0 with no adverse effects. > > Firefox 1.0 does not support appear 'flashblock' and/or I do not have it > > installed on Firefox 1.0. > > Ever since Flash has been in use, some advertisements using Flash crash > browsers. I do not know why. The flashblock brevents this, but the > original issue is with a particular edition of a webpage. Since these > change daily, ymmv. The problem may come back in afew days or weeks. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 15:53:01 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 11:53:01 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200605141153.01328.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Saturday 13 May 2006 22:47, Alex Beamish wrote: > Ha! > > "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for > Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > > http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > > This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from > taking the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > reality. That's pretty cool. Posted this on digg.com. Digg this article and lets get it on the front page and get the word out. http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/2006_Canada_Census_responds_to_public_demand,_allows_Linux -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 20:57:04 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 16:57:04 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <1147618259.5826.5.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1147618259.5826.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <446799A0.4010204@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >Good!! >Government is supposed to represent it's citizens not control them... > > Interesting point, given that there exist others who believe that doing the form online is a Bad Idea, even if you have a compatible system: http://www.countmeout.ca/ - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 21:34:34 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 17:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: <20060514133939.1275.qmail-zT9n6x/3IzWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060514133939.1275.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Michael Yang wrote: > Hello All, > > I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab > network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All > user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the > server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. > > I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp > afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the > new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new > account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. > > My questions are: > > 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users > > 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings How are you adding the user? If you are using adduser, that will just create an entry in the local password file. To create a new NIS user, the information goes into /var/yp/master.passwd, and running make builds the database using the information in that file. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 14 23:36:12 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:36:12 -0400 Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: <20060514133939.1275.qmail-zT9n6x/3IzWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060514133939.1275.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01c677af$3219eda0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Michael, I would suggest that you move away from NIS. It would be allot simpler for you to implement and manage auth based on ldap using nss_ldap. _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Michael Yang Sent: May 14, 2006 9:40 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: NIS Authentication/Adding user question Hello All, I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. My questions are: 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings Thank you in advance for your response. Regards, Michael _____ Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 01:08:44 2006 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 18:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060515010844.97721.qmail@web52011.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you Chris and Ansar for your kind reply. - Chris: I used addusr and thought NIS would add new entries to its database, I guess it is not the case. Could you point out how I should create a new user that it shows in /var/yp/master.passwd? - Ansar: thank you for your suggestion. I will consider it for the new server i am building. Btw, do you have any good resources/references regarding ldap to recommend? Good night all, Michael "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Michael Yang wrote: > Hello All, > > I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab > network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All > user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the > server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. > > I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp > afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the > new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new > account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. > > My questions are: > > 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users > > 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings How are you adding the user? If you are using adduser, that will just create an entry in the local password file. To create a new NIS user, the information goes into /var/yp/master.passwd, and running make builds the database using the information in that file. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 01:53:10 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 21:53:10 -0400 Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: <20060515010844.97721.qmail-K/AT8ELtbvmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515010844.97721.qmail@web52011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c677c2$550305a0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> I assume you are using FreeBSD as your server. http://www.cultdeadsheep.org/FreeBSD/docs/Quick_and_dirty_FreeBSD_5_x_and_ns s_ldap_mini-HOWTO.html I followed this to the letter and it works.. You can use either pam_ldap or nss_ldap as the client auth method. You don?t have to use both. I have this config running and I use http://www.ldapmanager.org (its windows but its free) to manage users. I prefer LDAP since you can use it for almost anything (addressbook, pbx, asterisk, apache and samba) _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Michael Yang Sent: May 14, 2006 9:09 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NIS Authentication/Adding user question Thank you Chris and Ansar for your kind reply. - Chris: I used addusr and thought NIS would add new entries to its database, I guess it is not the case. Could you point out how I should create a new user that it shows in /var/yp/master.passwd? - Ansar: thank you for your suggestion. I will consider it for the new server i am building. Btw, do you have any good resources/references regarding ldap to recommend? Good night all, Michael "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Michael Yang wrote: > Hello All, > > I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab > network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All > user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the > server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. > > I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp > afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the > new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new > account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. > > My questions are: > > 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users > > 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings How are you adding the user? If you are using adduser, that will just create an entry in the local password file. To create a new NIS user, the information goes into /var/yp/master.passwd, and running make builds the database using the information in that file. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _____ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 02:15:45 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:15:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Lone Coder - The Temptation of Warcraft Message-ID: <1147659345.8408.13.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The latest installment of my blog. This month I step away from Linux to discuss the success of the World of Warcraft game. http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_may_2006.html As always, I encourage people to keep the noise down on this list by posting comments to the Linux Cafe message board on my web site. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 02:21:29 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: <20060515010844.97721.qmail-K/AT8ELtbvmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515010844.97721.qmail@web52011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Michael Yang wrote: >On Sun, 14 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab >> network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All >> user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the >> server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. >> >> I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp >> afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the >> new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new >> account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. >> >> My questions are: >> >> 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users >> >> 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings > > How are you adding the user? If you are using adduser, that will > just create an entry in the local password file. > > To create a new NIS user, the information goes into > /var/yp/master.passwd, and running make builds the database using > the information in that file. > > I used addusr and thought NIS would add new entries to its > database, I guess it is not the case. Could you point out how I > should create a new user that it shows in /var/yp/master.passwd? Do it any way you like: text editor, shell script, C program, etc. The format in master.passwd is similar to /etc/passwd, with two extra fields added. For example, I use this to move users from a file in /etc/passwd format to the master.passwd file: awk -F: 'BEGIN {OFS = ":" } {print $1, $2, $3, $4, "", "0", "0", $5, $6, $7} ' $REG/shadow > $REG/master.passwd The file is then moved to /var/yp, and make is run in that dierectory. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 02:38:43 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:38:43 -0400 Subject: Dynamically setting mountpoints writeable or read-only?? Message-ID: <20060515023843.GA7276@waltdnes.org> Saturday, I did some "oops" programming. The only "object-oriented" thing about it is that some people might "object" to some of my expletives at the time. I ran a script to do a major backup to a usb "shirtpocket" external drive mounted as /mnt/pocket1. I then took the drive, plus my 2006 condo insurance papers and my keeper copy of my 2005 income tax to the bank where I stashed them in my safety deposit box. I took a second "shirtpocket" drive out of the safety-deposit box and brought it home. This drive mounts as /mnt/pocket2. How many people see what's coming next? I then ran the same backup script as in the morning, which proceeded to copy tons of stuff to /mnt/pocket1, which at this point was merely an empty directory on the / partition... oops. Fortunately, reiserfs didn't get hurt buy the full root partition, and I deleted the stuff in /mnt/pocket1. So how do I prevent this in future? Here are my options... 1) Is there a way to make directories like /mnt/pocket1 read-only, even for root, when the corresponding device is not mounted? 2) Create a small, 1-cylinder-long dedicated ext2fs partition, and mount that as /mnt. 3) What I've actually done right now, as a temporary fix, is to change all my backup scripts to look like so... #!/bin/bash targetdrive="nonexistant" if [[ `grep /mnt/pocket1 /etc/mtab` ]]; then targetdrive="pocket1" elif [[ `grep /mnt/pocket2 /etc/mtab` ]]; then targetdrive="pocket2" elif [[ `grep /mnt/bigdrive /etc/mtab` ]]; then targetdrive="bigdrive" fi echo "Target Drive = ${targetdrive}" if [[ "${targetdrive}" = "nonexistant" ]]; then echo "No backup target drive mounted. Exiting without backup." else if [ -a /home/waltdnes/minmax.zip ]; then rm /home/waltdnes/minmax.zip fi zip -9r /home/waltdnes/minmax.zip /home/waltdnes/spoolastra/* -i */.minmax rsync -av --delete --exclude-from=/home/waltdnes/.excludersync1 \ /home/waltdnes/ /mnt/${targetdrive}/waltdnes/ fi "bigdrive" is one of those large external USB drives that sits on its side. Nice, but way too large to fit into my safety deposit box. An extra-large safety-deposit box means a long waiting list (a couple of years) and is expensive. Backups at home are nice, but if the condo burns down, I lose the backups as well as the computer. "pocket1" and "pocket2" are a couple of 40-gig "shirtpocket" drives that I rotate through the safety deposit box. One of them is always at the bank. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 02:58:35 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:58:35 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? Message-ID: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> I always respect Cringeley, so it was interesting to read in this latest column an interesting analysis of Big Blue. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060511.html I also like his summing up of Apple as just "Microsoft with a sense of style". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 03:30:57 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:30:57 -0500 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <4467EE5B.8040609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/14/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I always respect Cringeley, so it was interesting to read in this latest > column an interesting analysis of Big Blue. > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060511.html It was funny that open source got a small mention just by way of reducing the head-count for a "pillar". let's see.. if Apple dies.. a smirk and a finger to a bunch of fanboys. Microsoft.. lan party at my place. Intel.. I'm not sure about this one. eBay was mentioned.. umm. What a terrible experience that crap has become. Google.. strangely, a lot people really like them. I'm seeing them grow increasingly more Evil. Their advertising racket is a real scam from some angles. I'm especially intrigued at their doctored numbers. Ever done manual tracking when you don't trust Google's numbers? They respond with "whoops, here's your money back". I do like the mention of horizontal vs vertical and when one competitor swallows another, it's one evil replacing another.. with similar tactics. The Real World (tm) doesn't work like that, of course, but it's always amusing to read the assumptions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 03:37:23 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 23:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > eBay was mentioned.. umm. What a terrible experience that crap has > become. My experiences with ebay and the experiences of some of my friends have been pretty positive. Can you be more specific, or is this just a drive-by shooting at the Internet Garage Sale? ;) Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 04:59:27 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 00:59:27 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <4467EE5B.8040609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060515005927.0fa1965b.tleslie@tcn.net> i agree about the best thing for MS is redo everything and come out with 49.99$ prices. Of course you can't sell share holders on a 2 year 20% skim off of stock price in hope they come back stronger with good products that they take time to build. As for the statements about how ultimately apple and ibm could be as bad as MS, i think is true, i mean if to the share holders and the mighty buck is all that matters, and the share holders are ok with a rape and pillage attitude (they seem to be for MS), then you got to assume they can all turn out like MS clones if they grow more in control of markets. Just makes me appreciate opensource and free software so much more! -tl On Sun, 14 May 2006 22:58:35 -0400 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I always respect Cringeley, so it was interesting to read in this latest > column an interesting analysis of Big Blue. > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060511.html > > I also like his summing up of Apple as just "Microsoft with a sense of > style". > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 05:20:08 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 08:20:08 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Dynamically setting mountpoints writeable or read-only?? In-Reply-To: <20060515023843.GA7276-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515023843.GA7276@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: > So how do I prevent this in future? Here are my options... Use the automounter. The target directory will not exist without a device and an error will be flagged if you try to use it. Alternately, do all device mounting by script and create the target directory just in time, then destroy it on unmount. ALWAYS check the return value from mount and umount. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:04:21 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:04:21 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft Dinner Meeting Tomorrow - Managing Game Entities Message-ID: <1147701861.3713.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Tomorrow it's time for some tasty Italian cuisine! KB --- Time: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 7:00 pm Location : East Side Marios Corner of North Queen in the Queensway close to Hwy 427 in front of Sherway Gardens mall. Agenda : Linux News Open Forum PegaSoft Member Project Updates PegaSoft's Annual Linux Summer Retreat Talk : Software Design Principles from Gaming (Part 3) "A System for Managing Game Entities" by Matthew Harmon from the book "Game Programming Gems IV". Creating a structure for the organization and inter-communication of cooperating objects in a computer game setting. Reviewed by Ken Burtch (deferred from last month) PegaSoft Canada is an association of Linux consultants based in Toronto, Canada. PegaSoft members meet at regular dinner meetings to discuss the latest trends and opportunities in Linux and work together to develop great new Linux software. Our goal is to act both as a programmer resource and to promote projects developed by our members. Events are posted on http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming so we can book enough table space at the restaurant. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:10:18 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 17:10:18 +0300 (IDT) Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My opinion on these 'downward' stories is: you know what, the universe is going to come to an end too. Real soon now. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:23:00 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:23:00 -0400 Subject: Anyone else's DSL speed increase? Message-ID: <20060515142300.GA9836@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> This isn't strictly Linux-related, but I noticed as of last week that my DSL seems to have sped up. Where I previously observed speeds of up to 317kB/s I am now seeing rates in excess of 550kB/s. Not that I'm complaining :-) I had heard that BellNexxia was going to be upgrading their DSLAMs and routing to increase speed, but I would have expected them to advertise their progress, at least to their resellers (I'm with Teksavvy since iStop imploded). -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:24:09 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:24:09 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <4467EE5B.8040609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> Message-ID: <1147703049.24620.309.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 22:58 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I always respect Cringeley, so it was interesting to read in this latest > column an interesting analysis of Big Blue. > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060511.html All successful companies go through a stage of complacency. The ones that don't recognize it soon enough will die quickly. The other thing that kills companies is when the emotional attachment of the founders clouds decision making. Microsoft is one exception to complacency. They are tremendously successful and have never been complacent. That's why they ended up in anti-trust. The biggest problem within Microsoft is that the founders are still in control. Their attachment guides them down a path that dead-ends, albeit a long way away. IBM on the other hand, is a company that has been through anti-trust, decades ago, and are now a collection of diverse and often competing business units. They have four major hardware platforms that they sell and support (xSeries (intel/AMD), pSeries (power), zSeries (mainframe), and iSeries (AS/400)) Each wants your business and each is incented to get your business. I see IBM as a company that has its own internal economy. I think this economy makes it less likely to become the Microsoft of the future. I also can't help but think about how IBM wants Linux to succeed, even if it is only to resurrect their lagging platforms or to reduce their dependence on Microsoft. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:25:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 09:25:30 -0500 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605150725pb14c022jf5c84fc85308f490@mail.gmail.com> On 5/14/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > eBay was mentioned.. umm. What a terrible experience that crap has > > become. > > My experiences with ebay and the experiences of some of my friends have > been pretty positive. Can you be more specific, or is this just a drive-by > shooting at the Internet Garage Sale? ;) * Some sellers like to hide their $20 "handling" markup. * Some item descriptions are very vague. It's also quite annoying to need to ask about shipping policies. * Shipping can add horrific hidden costs. * UPS sucks. * Even a repitable seller (store) can suddenly clam up, fail to ship for no reason, lie in emails and force a paypal refund. * I'm being spammed by eBay and they refuse to acknowledge it. I un-subscribed (which is a very very annoying thing to figure out) from all their services and still my webmail-equivalent gets spammed. Bleh. Oh, and UPS sucks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:28:10 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <446799A0.4010204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <446799A0.4010204@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060515142810.86706.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> But what if the data entry is also outsourced to them. That means more business! EK --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > >Good!! > >Government is supposed to represent it's citizens > not control them... > > > > > Interesting point, given that there exist others who > believe that doing > the form online is a Bad Idea, even if you have a > compatible system: > > http://www.countmeout.ca/ > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:46:51 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:46:51 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? Message-ID: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> Ho folks, some time ago I remember seeing a story about a Japanese computer scientist who had gotten linux boot times down to somehting very short -- 10 or 20 seconds I think, on a medium-range machine. So today I was trying to ifnd that article again, and couldn'treally; however I did noticel ots of new initiativesi n this direction, e.g.: accelerated knoppix: http://www.alpha.co.jp/ac-knoppix/index_en.html initng: http://www.initng.org/ runit: http://smarden.org/runit/ apple's launchd: http://developer.apple.com/macosx/launchd.html sun's smf: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/smf/ fedor'as "newinit" project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FCNewInit many of these projects involve abondoning or markedly modifying the sysvinit procedure (nor relevant to slackware folks I know). Has anyone tried any o them out with linux, esp a debian-based distro? I'd be interested to know what you thought. Also if anyone remembers this Japanese technology I heard about a while back (maybe it was actually just accelerated knoppix?) I'd like a reminder on that as well. thanks, matt ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 14:50:22 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ebay Issues: (was: IBM on a downward spiral?) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605150725pb14c022jf5c84fc85308f490-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605150725pb14c022jf5c84fc85308f490@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50687.207.188.65.194.1147704622.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > * Some sellers like to hide their $20 "handling" markup. That borders on dishonesty. You could mention that in your user feedback, right? They wouldn't last long with that kind of feedback. > * Some item descriptions are very vague. It's also quite annoying to > need to ask about shipping policies. > * Shipping can add horrific hidden costs. Yeah, you have to be very careful to nail that down. Caveat Empor still applies. > * UPS sucks. Absolutely. I try to get suppliers (and not just Ebay) to send USPS or FedEx. UPS rip off enormous border brokerage fees. The USPS and Cdn Post must be enjoying a surge of business because of Ebay. Canada Post has recently set up a special deal for Ebay customers. > * Even a repitable seller (store) can suddenly clam up, fail to ship > for no reason, lie in emails and force a paypal refund. True, but is this common? > Oh, and UPS sucks. See above ;). -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 15:03:31 2006 From: michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Newman) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 11:03:31 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <20060515142810.86706.qmail-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515142810.86706.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44689843.4040708@gmail.com> E K wrote: > But what if the data entry is also outsourced to them. > That means more business! The Census jobs site is hiring people with data entry skills. I even got a call from Statscan because a friend of mine put me down as a character reference. I don't know if your r?sum? eventually gets passed off to another company but I think the interviewer would have been from Diebold if that had been the case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 15:04:05 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 11:04:05 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? In-Reply-To: <20060515144651.GI26236-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200605151104.05891.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Monday 15 May 2006 10:46, Matt Price wrote: > Ho folks, > > some time ago I remember seeing a story about a Japanese computer > scientist who had gotten linux boot times down to somehting very short -- > 10 or 20 seconds I think, on a medium-range machine. Look into parallel booting of services. Definitely speeds things up when booting. http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-boot.html http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/173227 -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 15:11:39 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 11:11:39 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? In-Reply-To: <20060515144651.GI26236-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1147705899.24620.314.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 10:46 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > Ho folks, > > some time ago I remember seeing a story about a Japanese computer scientist > who had gotten linux boot times down to somehting very short -- 10 or 20 > seconds I think, on a medium-range machine. So today I was trying to ifnd > that article again, and couldn'treally; however I did noticel ots of new > initiativesi n this direction, e.g.: There was the Linux BIOS project (http://www.linuxbios.org) That didn't do anything for system startup but it did avoid the delays in BIOS startup. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 16:25:40 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 12:25:40 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? In-Reply-To: <20060515144651.GI26236-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4468AB84.9020806@utoronto.ca> Matt Price wrote: > Ho folks, > > some time ago I remember seeing a story about a Japanese computer scientist > who had gotten linux boot times down to somehting very short -- 10 or 20 > seconds I think, on a medium-range machine. So today I was trying to ifnd > that article again, and couldn'treally; however I did noticel ots of new > initiativesi n this direction, e.g.: Wouldn't a laptop and suspend to memory be better? Which brings up another beef I have. Is there a desktop power supply whose fans will shut off when the desktop goes into suspend to memory. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 16:42:11 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 12:42:11 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? In-Reply-To: <4468AB84.9020806-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> <4468AB84.9020806@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060515164211.GK26236@utoronto.ca> On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 12:25:40PM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Matt Price wrote: > >Ho folks, > > > > some time ago I remember seeing a story about a Japanese computer > > scientist > >who had gotten linux boot times down to somehting very short -- 10 or 20 > >seconds I think, on a medium-range machine. So today I was trying to ifnd > >that article again, and couldn'treally; however I did noticel ots of new > >initiativesi n this direction, e.g.: > > > Wouldn't a laptop and suspend to memory be better? > > Which brings up another beef I have. Is there a desktop power supply whose > fans will shut off when the desktop goes into suspend to memory. well, probably it is better. I do also use suspend-to-disk sometimes, but I'm worried about getting that working on the new machine I'm setting up (was a bit of a hassle last time around). I'd also be interested in your question about power supplies. Can a hibernate script be tweaked to send a fan-off signal via acpi? matt Matt > > Ivan. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 17:24:50 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 13:24:50 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US Message-ID: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html SkypeOut is now free within the US and Canada to all landlines and mobiles, until at least the end of 2006. Linux clients are available here http://www.skype.com/download/skype/linux/ -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 20:45:05 2006 From: abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org (Aaron Bentley) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 16:45:05 -0400 Subject: Programming jobs at PanoMetrics Message-ID: <4468E851.4050505@panoramicfeedback.com> Hi all, My company, PanoMetrics, is hiring programmers. We're looking for people with C++ and Python skills. If you're interested, please see http://panoramicfeedback.com/jobs.php or contact me. Thanks, Aaron -- Aaron Bentley Director of Technology Panometrics, Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 22:26:47 2006 From: slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: 16 May 2006 00:26:47 +0200 Subject: The French patents etc. situation Message-ID: <83slnaudp4.fsf@wanadoo.fr> ORIGINALLY posted to Linux-Azur as: Re: DADVSI : passage en force ou respect du debat democratique ? Please excuse my not translating the lengthy post vero writes: > Bonjour les Pingouinots, > > COMMUNIQU? de PRESSE APRIL/FFII France/FSF France > [ France / Culture / L?gislation ] > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > DADVSI : passage en force ou respect du d?bat d?mocratique ? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > /Paris, le 15 mai 2006 -- L'APRIL, la FFII France et la FSF France > demandent au Premier ministre et au Ministre de la Culture de respecter > leurs engagements concernant la loi DADVSI et d'organiser une navette > suppl?mentaire pour permettre notamment aux d?put?s de discuter et > d'am?liorer les propositions du S?nat [1]. Cette seconde lecture serait > d'ailleurs demand?e par le d?put? Bernard Carayon (UMP) et le s?nateur > Alain Lambert (UMP) dans un courrier adress? aujourd'hui au Premier > ministre./ > > > Le vote du S?nat sur le projet de loi relatif au Droit d'Auteur et aux > Droits Voisins dans la Soci?t? de l'Information montre qu'un grand > nombre de s?nateurs ?tant intervenus dans le d?bat n'ont visiblement > pas compris les enjeux de ce texte. Le S?nat a adopt? un texte > fondamentalement tr?s diff?rent de celui adopt? par l'Assembl?e > Nationale le 22 mars. > > Par exemple, l'article 7 du projet de loi, qui a trait ? la protection > des mesures techniques, a ?t? enti?rement r??crit et ferme la porte ? > l'interop?rabilit?. Le seul point de consensus des d?put?s a ?t? > saccag? par les S?nateurs. Le S?nat pr?f?rant d?l?guer ? une nouvelle > autorit? imagin?e par la commission des Affaires Culturelles la charge > de r?guler les mesures techniques et de garantir ou non > l'interop?rabilit? consacr?e par le texte de l'Assembl?e. On a pu > constater l'absence de consensus au S?nat sur le vote des attributions > de cette autorit? : l'amendement n?18 instituant un nouvel article > apr?s l'article 7 a ainsi ?t? adopt? ? une courte majorit? (164 contre > 159). > > ? L'interop?rabilit? n'est pas le seul point de d?saccord mais il est > fondamental. L'article 7 vot? par l'assembl?e nationale faisait de la > France le premier pays d'Europe ? v?ritablement d?fendre activement > l'interop?rabilit?, garantissant la libre concurrence et la s?curit? de > d?veloppement du logiciel libre dans notre pays ? d?clare Beno?t > Sibaud, pr?sident de l'APRIL. L'article 7 de l'Assembl?e nationale > avait ?t? d?fendu par le Ministre de la Culture notamment dans un > entretien publi? par le journal International Herald Tribune [2]. > > ? Le texte vot? par le S?nat pose de nombreux probl?mes sur le plan de > l'ins?curit? juridique, tant pour le consommateur que pour les PME, et > m?me pour les repr?sentants des ?diteurs de logiciels, telle la BSA qui > consid?re que c'est la pire des lois sur le logiciel jamais vot?e en > Europe [3] ? d?clare G?rald S?drati-Dinet, pr?sident de la FFII France. > > Face ? l'ampleur des divergences entre les deux textes, les > associations signataires de ce communiqu? ont ?crit ce lundi 15 mai au > Premier ministre et au Ministre de la Culture pour leur demander de > tenir les engagements, pris en s?ance publique le jeudi 9 mars 2006 > devant l'Assembl?e, de ne pas passer en force et d'organiser une > nouvelle navette parlementaire [4]. > > Dans un courrier adress? aujourd'hui au Premier ministre le d?put? > Bernard Carayon (UMP) et le s?nateur Alain Lambert (UMP) demanderaient > d'ailleurs une seconde lecture. > > Au nom du respect de la souverainet? du Parlement et des engagements > pris, une navette parlementaire doit ?tre organis?e. Il serait > intol?rable que le sort de ce projet de loi soit scell? ? l'occasion > d'une r?union ? huit clos entre 7 d?put?s et 7 s?nateurs. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > R?f?rences > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [1] Lettre au Premier Ministre - > http://www.april.org/articles/communiques/lettre-premier-ministre-20060 > 515.pdf > > [2] Minister in France defends iPod law - > http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/28/technology/itunes.php > > [3] French iPod bill moves forward - > http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/11/business/apple.php > > [4] Comptes-rendus int?graux des premi?re et deuxi?me s?ances du jeudi > 9 mars 2006 - > http://assemblee-nationale.fr/12/cri/2005-2006/20060165.asp - > http://assemblee-nationale.fr/12/cri/2005-2006/20060166.asp > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > URL permanente de ce communiqu? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - http://www.ffii.fr/article238.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ? propos de l'APRIL -- http://www.april.org > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > L'APRIL, Association pour la Promotion et la Recherche en Informatique > Libre, cr??e en 1996, est compos?e de personnes physiques et morales > impliqu?es dans le d?veloppement de l'informatique libre et fortement > implant?es dans le tissu social. Elle a pour objectif de sensibiliser > les entreprises, les administrations et les particuliers sur les > risques des solutions propri?taires et ferm?es et de les informer des > b?n?fices offerts par les logiciels libres et les solutions bas?es sur > des standards ouverts. > > Pour plus d'informations, vous pouvez vous rendre sur le site Web ? > l'adresse suivante : http://www.april.org/, ou nous contacter par > courriel ? l'adresse contact-kDSWknUa8UUEbZ0PF+XxCw at public.gmane.org > > - Contact presse : > > Beno?t Sibaud, pr?sident, bsibaud-kDSWknUa8UXYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org +33 6 81 18 11 30 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ? propos de la FFII France -- http://www.ffii.fr > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > La FFII France est le chapitre fran?ais de l'Association pour une > infrastructure informationnelle libre (FFII), association ? but non > lucratif enregistr?e dans divers pays europ?ens. La FFII France a pour > but la d?fense des droits et libert?s informationnels dont > principalement : les droits des auteurs et des utilisateurs de > logiciels selon les textes nationaux et internationaux ; la s?curit? > juridique des producteurs et des utilisateurs de logiciels, notamment > par la lutte contre les brevets logiciels. > > - Contacts presse : > > G?rald S?drati-Dinet, Pr?sident de la FFII France et Vice-pr?sident de > la FFII gibus-l6lR9ryUNG8 at public.gmane.org - +33 6 60 56 36 45 > Philippe de Tilbourg, Responsable relations m?dias de la FFII France, > tilbourg-l6lR9ryUNG8 at public.gmane.org - +33 6 77 26 62 65 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ? propos de la Free Software Foundation France -- www.fsffrance.org > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > La FSF France est une association loi 1901 se consacrant ? tous les > aspects du Logiciel Libre. Pour la FSF France, l'acc?s au logiciel > conditionne la participation des individus ? la soci?t? de > l'information. Par cons?quent, les libert?s d'utilisation, de copie, de > modification et de redistribution du logiciel, telles que d?crites dans > la d?finition du Logiciel Libre, permettent une participation ?quitable > ? l'?re de l'information. Susciter l'int?r?t pour ces sujets, prot?ger > le Logiciel Libre politiquement et l?galement, et lib?rer tout un > chacun en participant au d?veloppement de Logiciels Libres sont les > pr?occupations centrales de la FSF France. > > - Contacts presse : > > Fr?d?ric Couchet, pr?sident, fcouchet-qqS1jKwDkC/NLxjTenLetw at public.gmane.org +33 6 60 68 89 31 > Lo?c Dachary, vice-pr?sident, loic-mXXj517/zsQ at public.gmane.org +33 1 42 76 05 49 > > > _______________________________________________ > Fr-parl maillist > http://lists.ffii.org/mailman/listinfo/fr-parl -- Amicablement Slackrat (Bill Henderson) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 15 23:54:33 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 19:54:33 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446914B9.2030803@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > My opinion on these 'downward' stories is: you know what, the universe > is going to come to an end too. Real soon now. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > And, rumour has it, that George Bush won't get another term. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 00:22:28 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 19:22:28 -0500 Subject: Ebay Issues: (was: IBM on a downward spiral?) In-Reply-To: <50687.207.188.65.194.1147704622.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605150725pb14c022jf5c84fc85308f490@mail.gmail.com> <50687.207.188.65.194.1147704622.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605151722j3e4390f3mf7da61bc1668a7ea@mail.gmail.com> On 5/15/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > * Some sellers like to hide their $20 "handling" markup. > > That borders on dishonesty. You could mention that in your user feedback, > right? They wouldn't last long with that kind of feedback. I just watch out for this kind of thing and avoid those sellers. It was really annoying to get excited at a well-priced store only to realise that they're making up for it at the end.. +$8 per item, etc etc.. > > * Some item descriptions are very vague. It's also quite annoying to > > need to ask about shipping policies. > > * Shipping can add horrific hidden costs. > > Yeah, you have to be very careful to nail that down. Caveat Empor still > applies. For sure. I like tracking down locals, or at least people in Canada for most things.. but I'm quite an impulse-buyer. > The USPS and Cdn Post must be enjoying a surge of business because of > Ebay. Canada Post has recently set up a special deal for Ebay customers. That's cool. I wish more people would just use regular post.. but people like do use Fedex etc for their tracking. Isn't there a tracking mechanism from USPS through to Canada Post? > > * Even a repitable seller (store) can suddenly clam up, fail to ship > > for no reason, lie in emails and force a paypal refund. > > True, but is this common? Thanksfully not. It bit me the one time, and it was quite ruffling.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 00:25:50 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 19:25:50 -0500 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <200605151324.51092.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/15/06, Jason Shein wrote: > http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html > > SkypeOut is now free within the US and Canada to all landlines and mobiles, > until at least the end of 2006. Whoa. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 01:32:05 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:32:05 -0700 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: <44669D69.5050605@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/14/06, Peter wrote: > What I was thinking was, how about a standard 'note' or 'letter of > complaint' for such cases. Arguing the same issue over and over again is > getting old. The letter could be put on a website and anyone needing it > would download it, add his or her comments, sign it, and forward it to > whomever it may concern. The letter should be *very* short, perhaps > containing a link to an online page describing the problem (in general) > in more words (but still very few, less than two pages). It seems to me that there could be some value in doing this in a further sophisticated fashion so as to both make this more clearly individalized, as well as to provide a way of reporting when it works out, and when it doesn't. After all, this is but one "campaign;" there are very many instances of organizations making this sort of mistake. If you head over to , and fill in some information as to where it broke, this could allow... - Finding how others have tried to work around the given issue - Discovering how many others have reported the same issue, and perhaps *somewhat* unifying the responses so that there is some consistency as to what problem is reported - Providing a list of "Kudos" where there can be a list of cases where (like with the census) lobbying went somewhere, in order to praise those that listen, and to demonstrate that it happens -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 08:32:54 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 16:32:54 +0800 Subject: OT: Bandwidth allocation for email Message-ID: <200605161632.54242.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi ALL, Does anyone of you knows to estimate bandwidth utilization for an email server effectively? given: 2000 incoming total mails for 130 users. thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 09:53:58 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 05:53:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Bandwidth allocation for email In-Reply-To: <200605161632.54242.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605161632.54242.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: Don't know if this helps. My one client has ~ 80 users, some internationally travelling (so frequent usage after standard business hours). They run usually just over 2000 messages a day too. Their demographics based off last weeks report (not untypical of the norm) are: 12:00 AM - 1:00 AM 66.4 1:00 AM - 2:00 AM 47.1 2:00 AM - 3:00 AM 177.1 3:00 AM - 4:00 AM 100.3 4:00 AM - 5:00 AM 47.2 5:00 AM - 6:00 AM 44.1 6:00 AM - 7:00 AM 85.4 7:00 AM - 8:00 AM 52.4 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM 83.8 9:00 AM - 10:00 AM 125.6 10:00 AM - 11:00 AM 147.5 11:00 AM - 12:00 PM 134.0 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM 93.7 1:00 PM - 2:00 PM 154.1 2:00 PM - 3:00 PM 154.6 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM 185.4 4:00 PM - 5:00 PM 94.9 5:00 PM - 6:00 PM 42.0 6:00 PM - 7:00 PM 53.5 7:00 PM - 8:00 PM 33.1 8:00 PM - 9:00 PM 47.4 9:00 PM - 10:00 PM 58.3 10:00 PM - 11:00 PM 53.4 11:00 PM - 12:00 AM 41.9 2123.4 In our case, average loading has 2-3% typically non-business hours per hour. Office hours here are 9 to 5. Mid morning and mid afternoon peak at not quite 10% of daily volume. Their user average is 28 MB of messages a day which I suspect is significantly higher than typical since they sent a lot of pictures, drawings and specifications being an engineering company. I don't know how much of this is internal vs external on a size basis however, their ratio of external to internal is 40:1. Lastly, a quick check off my own servers shows 2.2MB per user (small consulting company) daily, less than 10% of the engineering boys. Hope this helps. D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca Giving you complete IT piece of mind -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of JM Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:33 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Bandwidth allocation for email Hi ALL, Does anyone of you knows to estimate bandwidth utilization for an email server effectively? given: 2000 incoming total mails for 130 users. thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 11:11:26 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 07:11:26 -0400 Subject: Census, could it be any slower ? Message-ID: <323A1AF1-B06A-4203-B621-2C312C5E1DFE@visibleassets.com> That is a terrible app, considering it is just recording a few very small items. It takes 10 seconds between page loads. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 11:39:41 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 07:39:41 -0400 Subject: Census, could it be any slower ? In-Reply-To: <323A1AF1-B06A-4203-B621-2C312C5E1DFE-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <323A1AF1-B06A-4203-B621-2C312C5E1DFE@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: So I have no idea how far I am in the census, they don't have n of M indications on the page. This is absolutely a piece of kife. Many of the questions are redundant, for instance: My kids are obviously not native americans if my wife and I aren't. Here's a good one: "On the job what language did this person use most often?" Considering I already answered that I don't speak french, I think it's safe to assume I don't use it for work. Dave On 16-May-06, at 7:11 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > That is a terrible app, considering it is just recording a few very > small items. It takes 10 seconds between page loads. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 14:12:23 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:12:23 -0400 Subject: OT: Bandwidth allocation for email In-Reply-To: <200605161632.54242.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605161632.54242.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <1147788743.2691.39.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 16:32 +0800, JM wrote: > Hi ALL, > > Does anyone of you knows to estimate bandwidth utilization for an email > server effectively? > > given: > 2000 incoming total mails for 130 users. > > thanks, I don't have accurate statistics on the total throughput. I know that my server deals with 26000 messages (8100 spam, 64 virus mails) on a weekday, has 263 mailboxes (several are multi-drop pop boxes). Message size total is 575MB (includes spam). Now this is the message size, not the throughput. POP3 access could double that (remove some spam, add protocol overhead) and relayed messages would also add to that (SMTP in -> SMTP out). I had 11,350 POP3 accesses at 1.5k per access (with no message to download) is another 18.3GB Based on this my estimate is that my mail server uses about 1.2GB per day. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 14:27:09 2006 From: systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org (Kyril Stoikopoulos) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:27:09 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> welcome to the future of the phone system. Long distance will be a thing of the past ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sy Ali" To: Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US > On 5/15/06, Jason Shein wrote: >> http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html >> >> SkypeOut is now free within the US and Canada to all landlines and >> mobiles, >> until at least the end of 2006. > > Whoa. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/340 - Release Date: 15/05/2006 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 14:27:20 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Census, could it be any slower ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060516142720.78395.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Cramer wrote: > So I have no idea how far I am in the census, they > don't have n of M > indications on the page. > > This is absolutely a piece of kife. > > Many of the questions are redundant, for instance: > > My kids are obviously not native americans if my > wife and I aren't. No, it is not totally obvious, if your children were adopted then they MIGHT be native american even if you and your wife are not (granted this is an unusual case, but ...). > Here's a good one: "On the job what language did > this person use most > often?" Considering I already answered that I don't > speak french, I > think it's safe to assume I don't use it for work. True, but I would assume they are after the folks who say speak English at home and say Cantonese (or some other languange that is not one of Canada's official languages) at work or vice-versa. > Dave > On 16-May-06, at 7:11 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > That is a terrible app, considering it is just > recording a few very > > small items. It takes 10 seconds between page > loads. > > > > Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 14:34:37 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:34:37 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: <446799A0.4010204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1147618259.5826.5.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <446799A0.4010204@telly.org> Message-ID: <1147790077.4784.1.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Soon we'll be 'outsourcing' our entire government. ;) RickT On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 16:57 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > >Good!! > >Government is supposed to represent it's citizens not control them... > > > > > Interesting point, given that there exist others who believe that doing > the form online is a Bad Idea, even if you have a compatible system: > > http://www.countmeout.ca/ > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 14:38:08 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: Tlug membership dues Message-ID: <1147790288.4784.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Where on the tlug web site is any explanation of membership dues? I'd be happy to send a donation if I knew where to send it. RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 15:23:18 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:23:18 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0-qMtYMQfCx00@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> Message-ID: <4469EE66.7030405@uoguelph.ca> Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: > welcome to the future of the phone system. > Long distance will be a thing of the past > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sy Ali" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:25 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US > > >> On 5/15/06, Jason Shein wrote: >>> http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html >>> >>> >>> SkypeOut is now free within the US and Canada to all landlines and >>> mobiles, >>> until at least the end of 2006. >> >> Whoa. >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/340 - Release Date: 15/05/2006 >> >> > I didn't really have much to add to this thread until this last post. For me, Skype has not been a real replacement for a phone. Mind you I haven't used it in the past two or three months, but whenever I have used it in the past, people on the other end always have a hard time hearing me or say that there is an "electronic distortion" to my voice. I don't think it's my microphone since I can record perfectly clear messages and then play them back in Audacity. I have a high-speed connection and don't run bandwidth-hogging apps while talking; has anyone else had the problems with Skype I've just discussed? BTW: Far be it for me to trash Skype, as a matter of fact I think it's great and free SkypeOut is an amazing offer, but it's just not a telephone replacement, quality-wise. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 15:28:41 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:28:41 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <4469EE66.7030405-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <4469EE66.7030405@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: On 16-May-06, at 11:23 AM, Tom Watts wrote: > Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: >> welcome to the future of the phone system. >> Long distance will be a thing of the past >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sy Ali" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US >>> On 5/15/06, Jason Shein wrote: >>>> http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/05/ >>>> free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html >>>> >>>> SkypeOut is now free within the US and Canada to all landlines >>>> and mobiles, >>>> until at least the end of 2006. >>> >>> Whoa. >>> >>> > I didn't really have much to add to this thread until this last post. > For me, Skype has not been a real replacement for a phone. Mind you I > haven't used it in the past two or three months, but whenever I have > used it in the past, people on the other end always have a hard time > hearing me or say that there is an "electronic distortion" to my > voice. > I don't think it's my microphone since I can record perfectly clear > messages and then play them back in Audacity. I have a high-speed > connection and don't run bandwidth-hogging apps while talking; has > anyone else had the problems with Skype I've just discussed? > > BTW: Far be it for me to trash Skype, as a matter of fact I think it's > great and free SkypeOut is an amazing offer, but it's just not a > telephone replacement, quality-wise. I haven't really experienced "electronic distortion" or anything like that when using Skype... Not sure if this is Skype or just the microphone on my powerbook. The only problem I consistently have, is that when I am speaking, the other party is completely cut out... it's sometimes difficult to have conversations (especially with more than one other person) because only one person can speak at a time, otherwise it gets very difficult to hear people. I've had similar problems with VOIP though, so it's not just Skype. Cheers, -- Paul http://www.eval.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 17:30:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:30:02 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0-qMtYMQfCx00@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> Message-ID: <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 10:27:09AM -0400, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: > welcome to the future of the phone system. > Long distance will be a thing of the past At least until skype has killed all competitors. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 18:51:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:51:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <20060516173002.GA23932-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 10:27:09AM -0400, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: >> welcome to the future of the phone system. >> Long distance will be a thing of the past > > At least until skype has killed all competitors. Skype was suspected of having grander plans than HiFi VoIP from the beginning, when it was realised it is a wide bandwidth service. The VoIP thing is the freebie. Cherchez le moneymaking machine. In this case media distribution through Skype. Rodio Skype ? Skype TV ? Just wait a little longer. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 19:13:34 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:13:34 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <1147703049.24620.309.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1147703049.24620.309.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0605161213h1b8d1759l6cd754a32ed31d0a@mail.gmail.com> ... > I also can't help but think about how IBM wants Linux to succeed, even if it is only to resurrect their lagging platforms or to reduce their dependence on Microsoft. I'm not privy to any secret strategies, but it makes a lot of sense. Before Linux, IBM was pushing Java heavily as a method to create applications which can run across the different platforms. Strategically, multiple disparate incompatible platforms is bad. Linux delivers that kind of cross-platform development and attracts developer interest much better than Java ever did. So I don't think it is specifically to resurrect lagging platforms, but to apply proven technology to a new generation of developers, without which, they'd have to throw out the old stuff and rebuild. To top it off, when dealing with virtualized systems, in a weird literal way, Linux becomes a virtual machine. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 19:14:33 2006 From: systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org (Kyril Stoikopoulos) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:14:33 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000c01c6791c$f6b48a30$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> the end of long distance will be when eveyone uses their ip address as their phone number and the software will only reside on your computer. Skype will just facilitate more people using their computers for phones.the liberation begins after that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US > > On Tue, 16 May 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 10:27:09AM -0400, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: >>> welcome to the future of the phone system. >>> Long distance will be a thing of the past >> >> At least until skype has killed all competitors. > > Skype was suspected of having grander plans than HiFi VoIP from the > beginning, when it was realised it is a wide bandwidth service. The VoIP > thing is the freebie. Cherchez le moneymaking machine. In this case media > distribution through Skype. Rodio Skype ? Skype TV ? Just wait a little > longer. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/340 - Release Date: 15/05/2006 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 16 19:22:54 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:22:54 -0400 Subject: IBM on a downward spiral? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0605161213h1b8d1759l6cd754a32ed31d0a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1147703049.24620.309.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <92ee967a0605161213h1b8d1759l6cd754a32ed31d0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1147807374.2691.122.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 15:13 -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: > So I don't think it is specifically to resurrect lagging platforms, > but to apply proven technology to a new generation of developers, > without which, they'd have to throw out the old stuff and rebuild. I didn't mean lagging in technology but rather in sales growth. I do like your positive spin on it. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 02:31:10 2006 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060517023110.15142.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, Thank you for your reply. I have updated /var/yp/master.passwd file and run make afterwards. Now when I try to logon from one of the linux stations via GUI logon, the screen flashes , then come back to login screen. But i can ssh in to the server with new account credential. I think when the account was created, I probably missed some X profile setup. Anyone has idea about how I can check what is missing. Many thanks, Michael "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Michael Yang wrote: >On Sun, 14 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I am new to a lab and now trying to add an new user onto the lab >> network which has Linux workstations and a Freebsd server. All >> user's home directories are shared on the Freebsd server and the >> server hold all user account information using NIS/NFS. >> >> I have added a new user to the server, and run 'make' under /var/yp >> afterwards, I still not able to logon from the workstatins with the >> new account i created on the server, and I do not see the new >> account info shows in /var/yp/master.passwd file. >> >> My questions are: >> >> 1. Am I missing anything steps in the process of adding users >> >> 2. How long will it take to propogate the new account settings > > How are you adding the user? If you are using adduser, that will > just create an entry in the local password file. > > To create a new NIS user, the information goes into > /var/yp/master.passwd, and running make builds the database using > the information in that file. > > I used addusr and thought NIS would add new entries to its > database, I guess it is not the case. Could you point out how I > should create a new user that it shows in /var/yp/master.passwd? Do it any way you like: text editor, shell script, C program, etc. The format in master.passwd is similar to /etc/passwd, with two extra fields added. For example, I use this to move users from a file in /etc/passwd format to the master.passwd file: awk -F: 'BEGIN {OFS = ":" } {print $1, $2, $3, $4, "", "0", "0", $5, $6, $7} ' $REG/shadow > $REG/master.passwd The file is then moved to /var/yp, and make is run in that dierectory. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 03:58:42 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 23:58:42 -0400 Subject: Sound on sarge Message-ID: <446A6732.18812.1B67B6@pking123.sympatico.ca> I have a feeling I may have broken something. I have been away from Debian for over a year, and now that I am back, I see a marked improvement in configurability (this time, I was happy with it after only two tries). I was trying to configure the sound, and found in the documentation that I have to add privelaged users to an audio group if I want them to use sound. FIne, but then I found tha the permissions on /dev/dsp was rw-rw----. I had to change that, so I did a "chmod 4666" (I now think that setting the SUID bit was too generous), and the sound worked during that same login. WHen I logged off, then logged back in again, the sound was gone, and seemingly nothing would bring it back. I was getting an error message about a missing library (can't recall exactly which one) with a .so.2 extension, but found the same library name under /usr/lib/xmms/Input with just a .so extension. ALso, xmms now freezes when attempting to press the "play" button. Should I yank out xmms and reinstall? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 05:41:37 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 01:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Alex Beamish | "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for | Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." | | http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm | | This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from taking | the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on reality. | That's pretty cool. I am still out of luck. There is no Java plugin for x86_64. I don't know why. There is a free-as-in-beer JRE & JDK from Sun -- I installed it to try to do the census form. It just does not include a browser plugin. I considered removing 64-bit Firefox and replacing it with a 32-bit version, but the RPM system balked -- too many dependencies (this is Fedora Core 5). I imagine I could have installed an extra Firefox, but this was getting too messy. Question for those who did it online: in what way is Java exploited? Could the job have been done as well without it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 05:52:23 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 01:52:23 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't know which distro you are running, but it might be possible to create a chroot for 32-bit apps with it's own RPM repository. I remember seeing that as a solution to some 32-bit only apps when running Debian Sarge x86_64. (Looked up the link: https:// alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64- howto.html#id271998) On May 17, 2006, at 1:41 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alex Beamish > > | "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the > restriction for > | Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > | > | http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > | > | This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers > from taking > | the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on > reality. > | That's pretty cool. > > I am still out of luck. There is no Java plugin for x86_64. I don't > know why. There is a free-as-in-beer JRE & JDK from Sun -- I > installed it to try to do the census form. It just does not include a > browser plugin. > > I considered removing 64-bit Firefox and replacing it with a 32-bit > version, but the RPM system balked -- too many dependencies (this is > Fedora Core 5). I imagine I could have installed an extra Firefox, > but this was getting too messy. > > Question for those who did it online: in what way is Java exploited? > Could the job have been done as well without it? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 06:04:33 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 02:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <20060516173002.GA23932-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | At least until skype has killed all competitors. Right. Skype uses proprietary protocols as I understand it. It is much better for the consumer if open standards win. Like SIP. Or IAX (not as widely adopted, but sufficiently open, I think). Most VoIP companies use SIP. But some want to capture their customers. Vonnage has tie-ins that use locked hardware -- the only kind you can get in mass-market stores. I don't know what Google is doing. I've some experience with untied SIP. Not too expensive and much healthier. (I use Unlimitel.ca's a la carte products.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 06:11:30 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 03:11:30 -0300 (ADT) Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <000c01c6791c$f6b48a30$cb00a8c0-qMtYMQfCx00@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000c01c6791c$f6b48a30$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: > the end of long distance will be when eveyone uses their ip address as their > phone number and the software will only reside on your computer. Skype will > just facilitate more people using their computers for phones.the liberation > begins after that. You surely didn't actually mean 'ip address', but more of a domain name kind of thingy :O) The approach currently followed by many companies is to use a fixed phone number with a dynamic IP. Others just use username/password combinations. Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 09:47:16 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 05:47:16 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <446AF124.30703@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alex Beamish > > | "In response to demand, Statistics Canada has removed the restriction for > | Linux. This change takes effect May 13th, 2006." > | > | http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr02/ccr02_003_e.htm > | > | This seems to support the hypothesis that barring Linux browsers from taking > | the census was a bad decision -- or at least, not one based on reality. > | That's pretty cool. > > I am still out of luck. There is no Java plugin for x86_64. I don't > know why. There is a free-as-in-beer JRE & JDK from Sun -- I > installed it to try to do the census form. It just does not include a > browser plugin. > > I considered removing 64-bit Firefox and replacing it with a 32-bit > version, but the RPM system balked -- too many dependencies (this is > Fedora Core 5). I imagine I could have installed an extra Firefox, > but this was getting too messy. Would a live CD work for you? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 09:49:37 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 05:49:37 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000c01c6791c$f6b48a30$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> Message-ID: <446AF1B1.7010107@rogers.com> Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > On Tue, 16 May 2006, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: > >> the end of long distance will be when eveyone uses their ip address as their >> phone number and the software will only reside on your computer. Skype will >> just facilitate more people using their computers for phones.the liberation >> begins after that. > > You surely didn't actually mean 'ip address', but more of a domain name > kind of thingy :O) Yep, phones will have a hex keypad and you'll have to remember te IPv6 address for all your friends and relatives. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 10:24:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:24:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: <446AF1B1.7010107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000c01c6791c$f6b48a30$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <446AF1B1.7010107@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 May 2006, James Knott wrote: > Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: >> On Tue, 16 May 2006, Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: >> >>> the end of long distance will be when eveyone uses their ip address as >>> their >>> phone number and the software will only reside on your computer. Skype >>> will >>> just facilitate more people using their computers for phones.the >>> liberation >>> begins after that. >> >> You surely didn't actually mean 'ip address', but more of a domain name >> kind of thingy :O) > > > Yep, phones will have a hex keypad and you'll have to remember te IPv6 > address for all your friends and relatives. ;-) Yeah. There will be a single phonebook for the entire planet. Can you say 'John Smiths, unite!'. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 07:20:58 2006 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 07:20:58 +0000 Subject: Census, could it be any slower ? In-Reply-To: References: <323A1AF1-B06A-4203-B621-2C312C5E1DFE@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <446ACEDA.2020401@visible-assets.com> So you must have had the long version... I had the short version, and it really did seem completely useless. I was originally thinking about writing them and saying that I use this browser called 'mozilla' that's been around for about 500 years, have they heard of it? And an operating system called Linux, which has been around for almost 12 years. ~/Chris Dave Cramer wrote: > So I have no idea how far I am in the census, they don't have n of M > indications on the page. > > This is absolutely a piece of kife. > > Many of the questions are redundant, for instance: > > My kids are obviously not native americans if my wife and I aren't. > > Here's a good one: "On the job what language did this person use most > often?" Considering I already answered that I don't speak french, I > think it's safe to assume I don't use it for work. > > Dave > On 16-May-06, at 7:11 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> That is a terrible app, considering it is just recording a few very >> small items. It takes 10 seconds between page loads. >> >> Dave >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 12:16:55 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:16:55 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: With respect to Google, they've been doing a good job of keeping GTalk pretty open. While the client itself isn't open, the protocol is just Jabbar/XMPP, and the protocol they bought for voice communications has source available (Berkley-style license) and the ability to use it (http://code.google.com/apis/talk/index.html). They also plan to support SIP in the future. The only 'bad' part about GTalk is that the login connects to all other Google services, and there are privacy concerns to some extent. So even if they never support SIP, it's not like another SIP-based client couldn't add XMPP and libjingle support to interoperate with GTalk, unlike Skype. "4. Do you plan to support other real-time communication protocols? Google Talk supports XMPP with the beta release. We plan to support SIP in a future release. Additionally, we will evaluate other protocols as appropriate, to continue to deliver on our commitment to open communications." 5. What protocols are used for voice calls? Google Talk uses extensions to XMPP for voice signaling and peer-to- peer communication. Source code and documentation for these extensions is now available. In addition, these extensions are in the process of being reviewed by the XMPP standards body as official enhancements (known as JEPs) to the standard. Note that the source code for Google Talk's current implementation of these extensions varies slightly from the proposed specs. Upon ratification of the specs, Google Talk (and the source code) will be updated to be in full compliance. In the future, we plan to support SIP signaling as well." On May 17, 2006, at 2:04 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | At least until skype has killed all competitors. > > Right. Skype uses proprietary protocols as I understand it. > > It is much better for the consumer if open standards win. Like SIP. > Or IAX (not as widely adopted, but sufficiently open, I think). > > Most VoIP companies use SIP. But some want to capture their > customers. Vonnage has tie-ins that use locked hardware -- the only > kind you can get in mass-market stores. I don't know what Google is > doing. > > I've some experience with untied SIP. Not too expensive and much > healthier. (I use Unlimitel.ca's a la carte products.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 12:50:25 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:50:25 -0400 Subject: NIS Authentication/Adding user question In-Reply-To: <20060517023110.15142.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060517023110.15142.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060517125025.GB23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 07:31:10PM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: > Thank you for your reply. I have updated /var/yp/master.passwd file and run make afterwards. Now when I try to logon from one of the linux stations via GUI logon, the screen flashes , then come back to login screen. But i can ssh in to the server with new account credential. > > I think when the account was created, I probably missed some X profile setup. Anyone has idea about how I can check what is missing. X won't run if the users home dir isn't found or isn't writeable. Access to /tmp is important too. Maybe login as that user on the console and run startx and see if that works. Might give better error messages if nothing else. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 12:52:40 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:52:40 -0400 Subject: Sound on sarge In-Reply-To: <446A6732.18812.1B67B6-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <446A6732.18812.1B67B6@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060517125240.GC23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 11:58:42PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > I have a feeling I may have broken something. I have been away from Debian for > over a year, and now that I am back, I see a marked improvement in > configurability (this time, I was happy with it after only two tries). > > I was trying to configure the sound, and found in the documentation that I have > to add privelaged users to an audio group if I want them to use sound. FIne, but > then I found tha the permissions on /dev/dsp was rw-rw----. I had to change that, > so I did a "chmod 4666" (I now think that setting the SUID bit was too generous), > and the sound worked during that same login. They are supposed to be rw-rw---- since they belong to group audio. Simply do: adduser username audio, for any user that should have sound access. Debian didn't set the permissions the way they were just because they thought it would be fun to make life difficult for users. > WHen I logged off, then logged back in again, the sound was gone, and seemingly > nothing would bring it back. I was getting an error message about a missing > library (can't recall exactly which one) with a .so.2 extension, but found the > same library name under /usr/lib/xmms/Input with just a .so extension. ALso, xmms > now freezes when attempting to press the "play" button. > > Should I yank out xmms and reinstall? Don't know. Does alsamixer work? Is one of the stupid sound servers (artsd and esd) running? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 13:05:47 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:05:47 -0400 Subject: Census 2006 -- Linux is OK after all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060517130547.GD23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 01:41:37AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I am still out of luck. There is no Java plugin for x86_64. I don't > know why. There is a free-as-in-beer JRE & JDK from Sun -- I > installed it to try to do the census form. It just does not include a > browser plugin. That is correct. I believe blackdown.org's java version does include a browser plugin for 64bit. > I considered removing 64-bit Firefox and replacing it with a 32-bit > version, but the RPM system balked -- too many dependencies (this is > Fedora Core 5). I imagine I could have installed an extra Firefox, > but this was getting too messy. > > Question for those who did it online: in what way is Java exploited? > Could the job have been done as well without it? I believe they wrote things as a javaplugin in order to implement full session encryption. Why they couldn't do this with https and forms, I have no idea. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 13:37:45 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:37:45 -0400 Subject: Ziff-Davis presents: Windows vs Linux! Message-ID: Hello all, I use GMail, which presents 'suitable' ads (for some definition of suitable) on one side of the screen. While viewing the latest thread on running Firefox w/ Java on x86_64 architecture I saw a Google ad for another 'independent' (for some definition ..) web site asking the age old question, Windows or Linux? I visited, curious, and saw Ziff Davis, a long time Microsoft ally, at the bottom of the opening page, The conclusion (Windows!) was pre-ordained, but I filled out the survey anyway (What's your number one concern in using Open Source applications? [] Indemnification [] Interoperability [] Performance [] Reliability [] Security), noting that TCO wasn't listed. The percentages on the survey were all nice multiples of 2%, so it could be that I was the fiftieth person to answer the survey. Or just lucky. Anyway, the web site is at http://www.serveriq.net/category2/0,1874,1873037,00.asp and I find myself wondering, is there a tally anywhere of the pro-Windows and pro-Linux web sites anywhere? A blog showing the latest news and issues would be fascinating to read. If only there were more hours in the day. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 13:49:36 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:49:36 -0400 Subject: Sound on sarge In-Reply-To: <20060517125240.GC23932-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <446A6732.18812.1B67B6@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <446AF1B0.2315.2386422@pking123.sympatico.ca> On 17 May 2006 at 8:52, Lennart Sorensen spaketh these wourdes: > On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 11:58:42PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > > I have a feeling I may have broken something. I have been away from Debian for > > over a year, and now that I am back, I see a marked improvement in > > configurability (this time, I was happy with it after only two tries). > > > > I was trying to configure the sound, and found in the documentation that I have > > to add privelaged users to an audio group if I want them to use sound. FIne, but > > then I found tha the permissions on /dev/dsp was rw-rw----. I had to change that, > > so I did a "chmod 4666" (I now think that setting the SUID bit was too generous), > > and the sound worked during that same login. > > They are supposed to be rw-rw---- since they belong to group audio. > Simply do: adduser username audio, for any user that should have sound > access. I just told you I did that in the above paragraph. That did not bring the sound to my account (I also checked /etc/groups, in case you are wondering). Setting SUID to /dev/dsp did. And to answer a question stated below, yes, the alsa sound server is running. esd and artsd are installed, but not running to my knowledge (I am running debian in console mode under vmware right now). > Debian didn't set the permissions the way they were just > because they thought it would be fun to make life difficult for users. > > > WHen I logged off, then logged back in again, the sound was gone, and seemingly > > nothing would bring it back. I was getting an error message about a missing > > library (can't recall exactly which one) with a .so.2 extension, but found the > > same library name under /usr/lib/xmms/Input with just a .so extension. ALso, xmms > > now freezes when attempting to press the "play" button. > > > > Should I yank out xmms and reinstall? > > Don't know. Does alsamixer work? Is one of the stupid sound servers > (artsd and esd) running? > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1542 (20060516) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 13:58:02 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:58:02 -0400 Subject: Ziff-Davis presents... Message-ID: <446B2BEA.7030604@rogers.com> > is there a tally anywhere of the pro-Windows and pro-Linux web sites > anywhere? If you drill down through Google Directory, you'll get to this page which shows Linux sites outnumber Windows sites by a 5:1 margin. http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/ HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 14:01:09 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:01:09 -0400 Subject: Ziff-Davis presents: Windows vs Linux! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/17/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hello all, > > I use GMail, which presents 'suitable' ads (for some definition of suitable) > on one side of the screen. While viewing the latest thread on running > Firefox w/ Java on x86_64 architecture I saw a Google ad for another > 'independent' (for some definition ..) web site asking the age old question, > Windows or Linux? > > I visited, curious, and saw Ziff Davis, a long time Microsoft ally, at the > bottom of the opening page, The conclusion (Windows!) was pre-ordained, but > I filled out the survey anyway (What's your number one concern in using Open > Source applications? [] Indemnification [] Interoperability [] Performance > [] Reliability [] Security), noting that TCO wasn't listed. The percentages > on the survey were all nice multiples of 2%, so it could be that I was the > fiftieth person to answer the survey. Or just lucky. > > Anyway, the web site is at > > > http://www.serveriq.net/category2/0,1874,1873037,00.asp > > and I find myself wondering, is there a tally anywhere of the pro-Windows > and pro-Linux web sites anywhere? A blog showing the latest news and issues > would be fascinating to read. If only there were more hours in the day. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario At least at the top of the page is "Sponsored by Microsoft". Sort of like a restaurant recommending its own food. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 14:12:44 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:12:44 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The thing about all of these communication tools is that they're inherently dependant on the network effect. The value of belonging to the network is (roughly) a function of the size of the network. Email was a novelty of academia until my boss started using it. Then it became a business tool. Now that my Mom's using email, it has permeated daily life. I think this is an incredibly clever move on the part of Skype. By providing free dialouts, they allow all the users of their network to instantly leverage the POTS network. I think that this will actually _increase_ the value of their system. From a marketing perspective, being able to say "free long distance" is brilliant. Their dial-out rates were already cheap to the point of being practically free, but nobody pays attention to "cheap long distance" anymore since cheap has become a weasel word. Personally, the effect that I've observed for this is that both my Mom and Sister have signed up and bought Skype credit. That appears to be necessary to enable SkypeOut. I could be wrong, but either way it seems right to put a little bit of money their way for the service, and a one-time $14CDN payment for unlimited long-distance seems a good bargain. Neither of them is particularly technologically adept, but they've both decided to use Skype for all their long- distance calls from now on. I prefer open standards, and quite admire the IAX protocol from a technological stance. I can't help but hope that the Skype guys will eventually figure out that it's better to be a major (and early) player in a massive open market than a monopolist in a small closed market. Particularly in the communications field, where the value of a market is so heavily dependant on it's size. __________________________________________________ Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org DBA, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A On 17-May-06, at 08:16, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > With respect to Google, they've been doing a good job of keeping > GTalk pretty open. While the client itself isn't open, the > protocol is just Jabbar/XMPP, and the protocol they bought for > voice communications has source available (Berkley-style license) > and the ability to use it (http://code.google.com/apis/talk/ > index.html). They also plan to support SIP in the future. The > only 'bad' part about GTalk is that the login connects to all other > Google services, and there are privacy concerns to some extent. So > even if they never support SIP, it's not like another SIP-based > client couldn't add XMPP and libjingle support to interoperate with > GTalk, unlike Skype. > > "4. Do you plan to support other real-time communication protocols? > Google Talk supports XMPP with the beta release. We plan to support > SIP in a future release. Additionally, we will evaluate other > protocols as appropriate, to continue to deliver on our commitment > to open communications." > > 5. What protocols are used for voice calls? > > Google Talk uses extensions to XMPP for voice signaling and peer-to- > peer communication. Source code and documentation for these > extensions is now available. > > In addition, these extensions are in the process of being reviewed > by the XMPP standards body as official enhancements (known as JEPs) > to the standard. Note that the source code for Google Talk's > current implementation of these extensions varies slightly from the > proposed specs. Upon ratification of the specs, Google Talk (and > the source code) will be updated to be in full compliance. > > In the future, we plan to support SIP signaling as well." > > > On May 17, 2006, at 2:04 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: Lennart Sorensen >> >> | At least until skype has killed all competitors. >> >> Right. Skype uses proprietary protocols as I understand it. >> >> It is much better for the consumer if open standards win. Like SIP. >> Or IAX (not as widely adopted, but sufficiently open, I think). >> >> Most VoIP companies use SIP. But some want to capture their >> customers. Vonnage has tie-ins that use locked hardware -- the only >> kind you can get in mass-market stores. I don't know what Google is >> doing. >> >> I've some experience with untied SIP. Not too expensive and much >> healthier. (I use Unlimitel.ca's a la carte products.) >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEay9dgfzn5SevSpoRAunzAJ9KjME5T7SiwHTWK1kE+9x6MhtCJwCgvA97 HKZiQLvfWYsYPOXrWZBO4c8= =5iJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 14:34:40 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:34:40 -0400 Subject: Ziff-Davis presents... In-Reply-To: <446B2BEA.7030604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <446B2BEA.7030604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1147876480.2691.171.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 09:58 -0400, John McGregor wrote: > If you drill down through Google Directory, you'll get to this page > which shows Linux sites outnumber Windows sites by a 5:1 margin. > > > http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/ Other O/Ses in that list with sites more than MS: Mac OS and UNIX. Other O/Ses that are close: RISC OS and Palm OS. The BSDs total a nice value and even Pick shows up surprisingly strong. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 15:08:19 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ebay Issues: (was: IBM on a downward spiral?) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605151722j3e4390f3mf7da61bc1668a7ea-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4467EE5B.8040609@telly.org> <1e55af990605142030r71b85f71kafa9eb0155cd868b@mail.gmail.com> <50368.207.188.65.194.1147664243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605150725pb14c022jf5c84fc85308f490@mail.gmail.com> <50687.207.188.65.194.1147704622.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605151722j3e4390f3mf7da61bc1668a7ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50229.207.188.65.194.1147878499.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >> The USPS and Cdn Post must be enjoying a surge of business because of >> Ebay. Canada Post has recently set up a special deal for Ebay customers. > > That's cool. I wish more people would just use regular post.. but > people like do use Fedex etc for their tracking. Isn't there a > tracking mechanism from USPS through to Canada Post? You can definitely track a parcel when it's going from Canada to the US by post, so I would expect that it's possible to do the reverse. But my experience is as a seller, I have no direct experience as a buyer. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 15:06:55 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:06:55 -0400 Subject: Ziff-Davis presents... In-Reply-To: <1147876480.2691.171.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <446B2BEA.7030604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <446B03CF.31565.27F2B82@pking123.sympatico.ca> Click through once more to an "operating system" on that list shown as "x86". You will find that now that you narrow the field down to the Intel processor, Linux is first (3405), and Windows is second (758). All others are way in the rear of the pack. Of course, since this is x86, you can't directly compare this to MacOS and others. But FreeBSD is now at 84 - only slightly ahead of BeOS (75); something called JxOS is at 273 (slightly ahead of SCO at 271); another one I don't know: Bug OS at 228. These 3 OSes are in third, fourth and fifth place for the x86. pjk On 17 May 2006 at 10:34, John Van Ostrand spaketh these wourdes: > On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 09:58 -0400, John McGregor wrote: > > > If you drill down through Google Directory, you'll get to this page > > which shows Linux sites outnumber Windows sites by a 5:1 margin. > > > > > > http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/ > > > Other O/Ses in that list with sites more than MS: Mac OS and UNIX. > > Other O/Ses that are close: RISC OS and Palm OS. > > The BSDs total a nice value and even Pick shows up surprisingly strong. > -- > John Van Ostrand > Net Direct Inc. > > Chief Technology Officer > 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 > map > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org > Ph: 519-883-1172 > ext.5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM > Hardware > Fx: 519-883-8533 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 15:38:28 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ebay Issues: (was: IBM on a downward spiral?) In-Reply-To: <50229.207.188.65.194.1147878499.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50229.207.188.65.194.1147878499.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060517153828.62942.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> The USPS and Cdn Post must be enjoying a surge of > business because of > >> Ebay. Canada Post has recently set up a special > deal for Ebay customers. > > > > That's cool. I wish more people would just use > regular post.. but > > people like do use Fedex etc for their tracking. > Isn't there a > > tracking mechanism from USPS through to Canada > Post? > > You can definitely track a parcel when it's going > from Canada to the US by > post, so I would expect that it's possible to do the > reverse. But my > experience is as a seller, I have no direct > experience as a buyer. True, but... With Canada Post and the US Postal Service you can track packages if you pay for the right type of shipping. You can get package tracking from Canada Post if you ship via XPresspost (Canada Post's fastest/most expensive mail option), or Expedited Parcel (somewhat slower/cheaper than Xpresspost). You can NOT get parcel tracking on regular parcel post (slowest/cheapest option). As a shipper my favourite route is to use Expedited Parcel. Same story with the US Postal Service, you can get parcel tracking, just not at the cheapest/slowest service level. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 16:53:31 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Events.... Message-ID: <20060517165331.88140.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks to Sacha Chua I heard about last weekend's BarCampToronto, some details of which can be seen here: http://barcamp.org/TorCamp Saw a number of folks in the local Linux community at that event, including Sacha Chua, Seneca Cunningham, Giles Orr, and Pavel Zaitsev. All around a very good event, and I gather another BarCamp Toronto is planned for about 6 months from now. Now Upcoming.org has a good list of events coming up in Toronto as can be seen here: http://upcoming.org/metro/ca/on/to/ Events of potential real interest to our crowd would be: May 17th, 2006 - Wireless Toronto Meeting http://upcoming.org/event/69118/ May 18th, 2006 - SCO City to City Event http://www.caldera.com/c2c_2006/index_pm.html May 23rd, 2006 - NewTLUG meeting May 30th, 2006 - TorCampDemoCamp http://barcamp.org/TorCampDemoCamp6 Yes, I plan to be at the SCO City to City event, yes, I am willing to let SCO buy me lunch :-) . I plan to go in my usual outfit, (dress shirt, black pants, black shoes), but I must confess there is a certain temptation to go wearing: - IBM Tux baseball cap - RedHat T-shirt - carrying a Novell bag Unfortunately I don't have any clothes or other items with the AutoZone logo on it... Key question that I will want to hear them try to answer is "Why should any firm get into a commercial relationship with SCO when a loss in court to IBM, RedHat, Novell and/or AutoZone means game over for SCO?". Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 17:03:17 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:03:17 -0400 Subject: Sound on sarge Message-ID: <446B1F15.27668.997A3@pking123.sympatico.ca> Instead of using vmware, I rebooted into Debian itself, and found alsa wasn't running, even after doing an /etc/init.d/alsa start The message just afterward suggested that alsa loaded normally; but there was no daemon, and nothing new under /var/log/messages or even /var/log/debug. It just seemed to silently die. Other things I observed was that esd could not run because /dev/dsp was "in use" (by what?). A ps -ax showed no esd was in memory, so it was not there before or after I invoked it. Again, xmms freezes if I try to play something. pjk ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Paul King" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:49:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sound on sarge Send reply to: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On 17 May 2006 at 8:52, Lennart Sorensen spaketh these wourdes: > On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 11:58:42PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > > I have a feeling I may have broken something. I have been away from Debian for > > over a year, and now that I am back, I see a marked improvement in > > configurability (this time, I was happy with it after only two tries). > > > > I was trying to configure the sound, and found in the documentation that I have > > to add privelaged users to an audio group if I want them to use sound. FIne, but > > then I found tha the permissions on /dev/dsp was rw-rw----. I had to change that, > > so I did a "chmod 4666" (I now think that setting the SUID bit was too generous), > > and the sound worked during that same login. > > They are supposed to be rw-rw---- since they belong to group audio. > Simply do: adduser username audio, for any user that should have sound > access. I just told you I did that in the above paragraph. That did not bring the sound to my account (I also checked /etc/groups, in case you are wondering). Setting SUID to /dev/dsp did. And to answer a question stated below, yes, the alsa sound server is running. esd and artsd are installed, but not running to my knowledge (I am running debian in console mode under vmware right now). > Debian didn't set the permissions the way they were just > because they thought it would be fun to make life difficult for users. > > > WHen I logged off, then logged back in again, the sound was gone, and seemingly > > nothing would bring it back. I was getting an error message about a missing > > library (can't recall exactly which one) with a .so.2 extension, but found the > > same library name under /usr/lib/xmms/Input with just a .so extension. ALso, xmms > > now freezes when attempting to press the "play" button. > > > > Should I yank out xmms and reinstall? > > Don't know. Does alsamixer work? Is one of the stupid sound servers > (artsd and esd) running? > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1542 (20060516) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml __________ NOD32 1.1542 (20060516) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 17:23:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 20:23:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Sound on sarge In-Reply-To: <446B1F15.27668.997A3-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <446B1F15.27668.997A3@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 May 2006, Paul King wrote: > Instead of using vmware, I rebooted into Debian itself, and found alsa wasn't > running, even after doing an > /etc/init.d/alsa start > The message just afterward suggested that alsa loaded normally; but there was no > daemon, and nothing new under /var/log/messages or even /var/log/debug. It just > seemed to silently die. > > Other things I observed was that esd could not run because /dev/dsp was "in use" > (by what?). A ps -ax showed no esd was in memory, so it was not there before or > after I invoked it. > > Again, xmms freezes if I try to play something. Try fuser -v /dev/dsp Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 17:54:07 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:54:07 -0400 Subject: Events.... In-Reply-To: <20060517165331.88140.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060517165331.88140.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1147888447.2691.211.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 12:53 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Key question that I > will want to hear them try to answer is "Why should > any firm get into a commercial relationship with SCO > when a loss in court to IBM, RedHat, Novell and/or > AutoZone means game over for SCO?". Nice. I'm going to use that if I ever find someone who wants to use SCO. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 18:26:05 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: Sound on sarge In-Reply-To: <446B1F15.27668.997A3-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <446B1F15.27668.997A3@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060517182605.GE23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 01:03:17PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > Instead of using vmware, I rebooted into Debian itself, and found alsa wasn't > running, even after doing an > /etc/init.d/alsa start > The message just afterward suggested that alsa loaded normally; but there was no > daemon, and nothing new under /var/log/messages or even /var/log/debug. It just > seemed to silently die. ALSA is a driver, not a daemon. alsa start loads the mixer settings on boot. > Other things I observed was that esd could not run because /dev/dsp was "in use" > (by what?). A ps -ax showed no esd was in memory, so it was not there before or > after I invoked it. > > Again, xmms freezes if I try to play something. lsof might show what has the sound open. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 20:22:24 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Events.... In-Reply-To: <1147888447.2691.211.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1147888447.2691.211.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060517202224.56414.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 12:53 -0400, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > Key question that I > > will want to hear them try to answer is "Why > should > > any firm get into a commercial relationship with > SCO > > when a loss in court to IBM, RedHat, Novell and/or > > AutoZone means game over for SCO?". > > Nice. I'm going to use that if I ever find someone > who wants to use SCO. SCO has had a strong hold in the POS (point of sale) market (smart cash registers). Quite frankly if I were a current SCO POS client I would be walking as quickly away from them as practical. Some firms may have thousands of POS boxes out in the field, and changing their OS is NOT something that can be done overnight, but the writing is on the wall, one of the firms SCO is battling in court will take them OUT. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed May 17 23:09:43 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:09:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Socket A motherboard wanted Message-ID: <446BAD37.5020002@pppoe.ca> I apologize for the OT posting but I'm trying to get maximum exposure. I've posted on the HW list and am trying the used stores. If there's no response, I guess it's eBay :-) Does anyone have a Socket A motherboard for sale? I have an Athlon 2000 cpu (1.6GHz) that needs a home :-) Thanks. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 04:55:29 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 23:55:29 -0500 Subject: [OT] audio connection help Message-ID: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> I'm hoping to stumble into a couple of people who know about audio. I'm not sure how to search for answers, since these are all shortforms for audio terms.. and are a quite annoying to search for / research. I have a bit of a mystery on my hands with my motherboard (ASUS K8N) audio connections vs my case (Antec Sonata) front-case connections. The motherboard has a block of 9 pins: 1 2 3 x 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 - agnd 2 +5VA 3 BLINE_OUT_R 4 BLINE_OUT_L 5 MIC2 6 MICPWR 7 Line out_R 8 NC 9 Line out_L x = not labelled/used. Most of that makes sense. The case, however, has a bunch of single lines which are labelled thusly: FPOUT-R FPOUT-L MIC RET-R RET-L MIC BIAS MIC GND I don't know how these match up. On top of that, there are seven lines for 9 items on the motherboard. 8 if I think that NC means "no connection". Ideas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 05:04:50 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 01:04:50 -0400 Subject: faster boot -- radical solutions? In-Reply-To: <4468AB84.9020806-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060515144651.GI26236@utoronto.ca> <4468AB84.9020806@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/15/06, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Wouldn't a laptop and suspend to memory be better? Yes. On both my laptop and my desktop machine, with kernel 2.6.15, suspend to disk and suspend to RAM both work fine. They did not work in kernel 2.6.8. Both machines use Debian etch, and the stock Debian kernel, downloaded and installed via apt-get. It's a great time savings, as not only do my machines boot up far faster, I don't have to reload Emacs + 4 files for a project I'm working on, konqueror, konsole + screen + 5 shells, etc. - all the things I keep open all the time. They are reloaded for me, with the text insertion point in exactly the place I left it in in the Emacsen. It's great. Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 08:57:22 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 04:57:22 -0400 Subject: As of today, free skype out to Canada & US In-Reply-To: References: <200605151324.51092.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605151725p752b6bb2v8838f296f813814e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c678f4$d0bb5890$cb00a8c0@stlc.com> <20060516173002.GA23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/17/06, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Personally, the effect that I've observed for this is that both my > Mom and Sister have signed up and bought Skype credit. That appears > to be necessary to enable SkypeOut. I could be wrong, but either way > it seems right to put a little bit of money their way for the > service, and a one-time $14CDN payment for unlimited long-distance > seems a good bargain. Neither of them is particularly technologically > adept, but they've both decided to use Skype for all their long- > distance calls from now on. If you are only calling within Canada and the U.S. you do not have to sign up for the SkypeOut service at all. Just enter +1-416-123-4567 in the dial bar at the bottom, then click the big green Call button right below it. You must type a + sign and a 1 before the number. The point of paying money is to get cheap long distance elsewhere, or to get an incoming line, although you're better off with a company that lets you connect with a SIP or IAX client as was mentioned earlier. If I recall correctly IAX tunnels through firewalls better than SIP but less hardware VoIP phones support it. There are some Toronto VoIP providers listed at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Cheapest+ATAs+and+Service - does anyone have any experience with using any of these or any others? How's the convenience, reliability, sound quality, and customer service? Brandon: > On 17-May-06, at 08:16, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > > > it's not like another SIP-based > > client couldn't add XMPP and libjingle support to interoperate with > > GTalk, unlike Skype. Yes, they could, but nobody has yet. :) Gaim's voice and video integration efforts are going far slower than expected. Somebody made a psi-jingle (Google voice-activated) fork of the Psi Jabber instant messaging client, but that fork is only alpha-quality and hasn't been worked on for months IIRC. Sad but true. If only somebody set up a bounty to get this stuff added to Gaim and Kopete. Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 10:03:12 2006 From: slackrat-39ZsbGIQGT5GWvitb5QawA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: 18 May 2006 12:03:12 +0200 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <831wurk5un.fsf@wanadoo.fr> "Sy Ali" writes: > I'm hoping to stumble into a couple of people who know about audio. > > I'm not sure how to search for answers, since these are all shortforms > for audio terms.. and are a quite annoying to search for / research. > > > I have a bit of a mystery on my hands with my motherboard (ASUS K8N) > audio connections vs my case (Antec Sonata) front-case connections. > > The motherboard has a block of 9 pins: > > 1 2 3 x 4 > 5 6 7 8 9 > > 1 - agnd > 2 +5VA > 3 BLINE_OUT_R > 4 BLINE_OUT_L > 5 MIC2 > 6 MICPWR > 7 Line out_R > 8 NC > 9 Line out_L > x = not labelled/used. > > Most of that makes sense. The case, however, has a bunch of single > lines which are labelled thusly: > > FPOUT-R > FPOUT-L > MIC > RET-R > RET-L > MIC BIAS > MIC GND > > I don't know how these match up. On top of that, there are seven > lines for 9 items on the motherboard. 8 if I think that NC means "no > connection". > > > Ideas? The MOBO has one ground, the case two - you can probably connect either ground from case to mboard. Agnd = Audio ground, probably for both mic (mono) and headphone (stereo).
+5VA is for filtered +5v for audio circuits - you usually don't need to connect that. Micpwr is for a mic that requires additional power - you don't need to use that unless unless you have such a mike. MOBO ==== AGND = Audio Ground 5VA = For Filtered 5V audio circuits - safe to Ignore?? BLINEOUT R = Rear Right Speaker BLINEOUT L = Rear Left Speaker MIC2 = Microphone input MICPWR = Connect if Microphone requires additional Power Probably safe to ignore LINEOUT L = Front Left Speaker LINEOUT R = Front Right Speaker NC = Not Connected CASE ==== FPOUT R = Front Right Speaker FPOUT L = Front Left Speaker MIC = Mike Power pin RETR = Rear Right Speaker RETL = Rear Left Speaker MIC BIAS = Mic Input MICGND = Mike Ground Ignoring MOBO pins 5VA plus NC leaves you 7 Pins SUGGEST ======= AGGND -> MICGND 5VA --- NC BLINEOUTL -> RETL BLINEOUTR -> RETR MIC2 -> MICBIAS MICPWR -> NC LINEOUTR -> FPOUTR LINEOUTL -> FPOUTL NC --- NC No Guarantees ;) Good Luck -- Amicablement Slackrat (Bill Henderson) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 10:54:17 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:54:17 +0000 Subject: Sound on Sarge Message-ID: <1147949657.10945.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks, Lennart, for the help on the sound. It is now working, but at this point it is still a matter of killing esd each time. Here is what I did on the command line: bash (9) $ lsof | egrep 'dsp|PID' lsof: WARNING: can't stat() ext3 file system /dev/.static/dev Output information may be incomplete. COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME esd 4055 pking 5w CHR 14,3 4740 /dev/dsp bash (10) $ kill -9 4055 By killing esd, lots of stuff begins to work, including the volume control on the desktop, which used to snap back to zero if you set it to anything. So, if esd is getting in the way, what could be running it? If I do a "grep esd /etc/init.d/*", I get nothing. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 14:02:59 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:02:59 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... Message-ID: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've scoured the net in vain for an answer to this question, and it may be as much because I'm not sure if I'm asking my question correctly. Which is why I turn to the geniuses on this list... :-) I have a server hosting multiple domains. My user on that machine, aaron, wants to have separate POP accounts for the machine. So I'd like to have aaron-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org, and aaron-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Currently, mail sent to either address goes to both POP accounts in my mail client. This makes sense of course because I'm logging in as the same user. But how can I have separate logins? I've seen where some ISPs do sufficient aggregations that they change their system so you have to log in with your complete email address. I'd like to keep the same user on the system, but segregate the email somehow. Thanks! Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 14:20:25 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:20:25 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I've scoured the net in vain for an answer to this question, and it > may be as much because I'm not sure if I'm asking my question > correctly. Which is why I turn to the geniuses on this list... :-) > > I have a server hosting multiple domains. My user on that machine, > aaron, wants to have separate POP accounts for the machine. So I'd > like to have > > aaron-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org, and > aaron-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > > Currently, mail sent to either address goes to both POP accounts in my > mail client. This makes sense of course because I'm logging in as the > same user. > > But how can I have separate logins? I've seen where some ISPs do > sufficient aggregations that they change their system so you have to > log in with your complete email address. I'd like to keep the same > user on the system, but segregate the email somehow. > > Thanks! > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Are you using Sendmail? If so, I've got the same setup and I can show you some sample configs. It's tricky at first (I surely beat my head against the wall getting it going!) but once you've got it, it's pretty easy. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 14:23:08 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:23:08 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1147962188.2691.284.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 10:02 -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I've scoured the net in vain for an answer to this question, and it > may be as much because I'm not sure if I'm asking my question > correctly. Which is why I turn to the geniuses on this list... :-) > > I have a server hosting multiple domains. My user on that machine, > aaron, wants to have separate POP accounts for the machine. So I'd > like to have > > aaron-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org, and > aaron-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > > Currently, mail sent to either address goes to both POP accounts in my > mail client. This makes sense of course because I'm logging in as the > same user. > > But how can I have separate logins? I've seen where some ISPs do > sufficient aggregations that they change their system so you have to > log in with your complete email address. I'd like to keep the same > user on the system, but segregate the email somehow. You really need two things. 1. You need to setup your email server (sendmail, postfix) to virtualize domains. In Sendmail this is done in the virtusertable. This allows you to route the addresses differently. I think this is one of the pieces that you aremissing. 2. you need a way to identify users differently. The easy approach is to create accounts with slightly different names (e.g. aaron1 aaron2.) The most elegant way is to use the email address, but IIRC this requires a patch. For this solution I use sendmail (my fav) and cyrus-imap then would layer it with LDAP. Cyrus gives you a lot of benefit here in that it doesn't require operating system users. This way you don't have to worry about your users SSHing in. Although if that's preferrable, it doesn't stop you. If this is for an ISP type setup, rather than something simple, check out ISPMAN.net -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 14:55:09 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ziff-Davis presents: Windows vs Linux! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060518145509.87575.qmail@web61316.mail.yahoo.com> The question takes for granted that you are not happy with Linux. It doesn't even have an option if you don't have a concern (option none). What does it tell you at the end? 100% of the respondents have concern with Linux for different reason. Therefore, evey one is unhappy with Linux! EK bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: On 5/17/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hello all, > > I use GMail, which presents 'suitable' ads (for some definition of suitable) > on one side of the screen. While viewing the latest thread on running > Firefox w/ Java on x86_64 architecture I saw a Google ad for another > 'independent' (for some definition ..) web site asking the age old question, > Windows or Linux? > > I visited, curious, and saw Ziff Davis, a long time Microsoft ally, at the > bottom of the opening page, The conclusion (Windows!) was pre-ordained, but > I filled out the survey anyway (What's your number one concern in using Open > Source applications? [] Indemnification [] Interoperability [] Performance > [] Reliability [] Security), noting that TCO wasn't listed. The percentages > on the survey were all nice multiples of 2%, so it could be that I was the > fiftieth person to answer the survey. Or just lucky. > > Anyway, the web site is at > > > http://www.serveriq.net/category2/0,1874,1873037,00.asp > > and I find myself wondering, is there a tally anywhere of the pro-Windows > and pro-Linux web sites anywhere? A blog showing the latest news and issues > would be fascinating to read. If only there were more hours in the day. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario At least at the top of the page is "Sponsored by Microsoft". Sort of like a restaurant recommending its own food. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 15:05:38 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:05:38 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <446C82A9.1040200-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I'm using Sendmail 8.12.8-9.80. As John mentioned, I haven't used the virtusertable yet, but I see that it needs to be part of the solution. I definitely don't want to have different user names, but I can't find any information on this patch you mentioned, although someone else mentioned it in passing as well during my research. > For this solution I use sendmail (my fav) and cyrus-imap then would layer it with LDAP. Yikes, sounds scary... anything involving LDAP gets a little hairy for me. This is not an ISP solution. Just my company's server where I need to have two separate domains. Thanks, Aaron. On 5/18/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've scoured the net in vain for an answer to this question, and it > > may be as much because I'm not sure if I'm asking my question > > correctly. Which is why I turn to the geniuses on this list... :-) > > > > I have a server hosting multiple domains. My user on that machine, > > aaron, wants to have separate POP accounts for the machine. So I'd > > like to have > > > > aaron-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org, and > > aaron-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > > > > Currently, mail sent to either address goes to both POP accounts in my > > mail client. This makes sense of course because I'm logging in as the > > same user. > > > > But how can I have separate logins? I've seen where some ISPs do > > sufficient aggregations that they change their system so you have to > > log in with your complete email address. I'd like to keep the same > > user on the system, but segregate the email somehow. > > > > Thanks! > > Aaron. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > Are you using Sendmail? > > If so, I've got the same setup and I can show you some sample configs. > It's tricky at first (I surely beat my head against the wall getting it > going!) but once you've got it, it's pretty easy. > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 15:10:05 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:10:05 -0400 Subject: Sound on Sarge In-Reply-To: <1147949657.10945.10.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1147949657.10945.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060518151005.GF23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 10:54:17AM +0000, Paul King wrote: > Thanks, Lennart, for the help on the sound. It is now working, but at > this point it is still a matter of killing esd each time. > > Here is what I did on the command line: > > bash (9) $ lsof | egrep 'dsp|PID' > lsof: WARNING: can't stat() ext3 file system /dev/.static/dev > Output information may be incomplete. > COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME > esd 4055 pking 5w CHR 14,3 4740 /dev/dsp > bash (10) $ kill -9 4055 > > By killing esd, lots of stuff begins to work, including the volume > control on the desktop, which used to snap back to zero if you set it to > anything. > > So, if esd is getting in the way, what could be running it? If I do a > "grep esd /etc/init.d/*", I get nothing. I think there is a gnome config option to control if esd should be started or not when you login to gnome. Similarly for artsd in kde. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 15:25:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:25:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 11:55:29PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm hoping to stumble into a couple of people who know about audio. > > I'm not sure how to search for answers, since these are all shortforms > for audio terms.. and are a quite annoying to search for / research. > > > I have a bit of a mystery on my hands with my motherboard (ASUS K8N) > audio connections vs my case (Antec Sonata) front-case connections. > > The motherboard has a block of 9 pins: > > 1 2 3 x 4 > 5 6 7 8 9 > > 1 - agnd > 2 +5VA > 3 BLINE_OUT_R > 4 BLINE_OUT_L > 5 MIC2 > 6 MICPWR > 7 Line out_R > 8 NC > 9 Line out_L > x = not labelled/used. > > Most of that makes sense. The case, however, has a bunch of single > lines which are labelled thusly: > > FPOUT-R > FPOUT-L > MIC > RET-R > RET-L > MIC BIAS > MIC GND > > I don't know how these match up. On top of that, there are seven > lines for 9 items on the motherboard. 8 if I think that NC means "no > connection". Well NC means no connection, and you don't need to power anything so the +5VA can be left out. Now you have 7 pins to use on each end. Line Out R/L goes to FPOUT R/L. BLINE OUT R/L goes to RET R/L agnd goes to MIC GND. MIC2 goes to MIC (Apparently MIC1 is on the back and MIC2 on the front panel. I guess it supports two different MIC inputs in the sound chip). MICPWR goes to MIC BIAS (bias is for powering some part of certain microphone types hence why power would go there). That should take care of all 7 pins. When you plug something into the headphone jack on the front, it should automatically mute the rear outputs (which is why the return lines are there). Pretty handy. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 15:29:23 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:29:23 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446C92D3.1070906@alteeve.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Yes, I'm using Sendmail 8.12.8-9.80. As John mentioned, I haven't used > the virtusertable yet, but I see that it needs to be part of the > solution. > > I definitely don't want to have different user names, but I can't find > any information on this patch you mentioned, although someone else > mentioned it in passing as well during my research. The way the 'virtusertable' works is it looks in there for full email addresses and when it finds one it checks the associated unix user name and sends the email into their spool. So, theoretically (I haven't tried this) I suspect that: user-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user user-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user *Should* work. That said, I always use different unix users for each email address just to keep things separate. Ie: 'user.domain1.com' and 'user.domain2.com' and then tell the used that their POP3 login name is their email address with a '.' instead of an '@' sign. This patch that works around this is new to me, so I can't speak to that. Here are samples of my files: =- sendmail.mc -= FEATURE(`allmasquerade')dnl FEATURE(`masquerade_envelope')dnl FEATURE(`virtusertable',`hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable.db')dnl dnl # Default Mailer setup MAILER_DEFINITIONS MAILER(`local')dnl MAILER(`smtp')dnl dnl # Define server and cw file define(`confDOMAIN_NAME', `mail.alteeve.com')dnl define(`confCW_FILE', `/etc/mail/local-host-names')dnl Cw domain1.com mail.domain1.com Cw domain2.com mail.domain2.com ... Cw domainN.com mail.domainN.com =- access -= 111.222.33.44 RELAY 111.222.33.45 RELAY domain1.com RELAY mail.domain1.com RELAY ... domainN.com RELAY mail.domainN.com RELAY =- local-host-names -= localhost localhost.localdomain domain1.com mail.domain1.com ... domainN.com mail.domainN.com =- virtusertable -= user-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domain1.com @domain1.com admin.domain1.com user-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domain2.com foo-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org foo.domain2.com bar-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org bar.domain2.com @domain2.com admin.domain2.com ... user-8ttO0WTGhi9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domainN.com @domainN.com admin.domainN.com Then once everything is ready run: 'sendmailconfig' (if installed) or do whatever you need to do on your server to (re)generate your *.db files and to create the sendmail.cf file and restart sendmail. I *don't* pretend that these configs are free of typos! I just copied from my (working) config files and substituded with fake data to protect the innocent. Also, my config may not be optimal... I just know that it works. :p HTH Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 16:18:35 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:18:35 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <446C92D3.1070906-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139@mail.gmail.com> <446C92D3.1070906@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605180918v37ddd156wd0c24aea8e30dbb@mail.gmail.com> Hi there! It worked! I created a new user for this account and just used the virtusertable to forward mail ostensibly from the correct user name to this "made up" account. Sweet! Thanks so much, Aaron. On 5/18/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Yes, I'm using Sendmail 8.12.8-9.80. As John mentioned, I haven't used > > the virtusertable yet, but I see that it needs to be part of the > > solution. > > > > I definitely don't want to have different user names, but I can't find > > any information on this patch you mentioned, although someone else > > mentioned it in passing as well during my research. > > The way the 'virtusertable' works is it looks in there for full email > addresses and when it finds one it checks the associated unix user name > and sends the email into their spool. So, theoretically (I haven't tried > this) I suspect that: > > user-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user > user-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user > > *Should* work. That said, I always use different unix users for each > email address just to keep things separate. Ie: 'user.domain1.com' and > 'user.domain2.com' and then tell the used that their POP3 login name is > their email address with a '.' instead of an '@' sign. This patch that > works around this is new to me, so I can't speak to that. > > Here are samples of my files: > > =- sendmail.mc -= > FEATURE(`allmasquerade')dnl > FEATURE(`masquerade_envelope')dnl > > FEATURE(`virtusertable',`hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable.db')dnl > > dnl # Default Mailer setup > MAILER_DEFINITIONS > MAILER(`local')dnl > MAILER(`smtp')dnl > > dnl # Define server and cw file > define(`confDOMAIN_NAME', `mail.alteeve.com')dnl > define(`confCW_FILE', `/etc/mail/local-host-names')dnl > > Cw domain1.com mail.domain1.com > Cw domain2.com mail.domain2.com > ... > Cw domainN.com mail.domainN.com > > > =- access -= > 111.222.33.44 RELAY > 111.222.33.45 RELAY > > domain1.com RELAY > mail.domain1.com RELAY > ... > domainN.com RELAY > mail.domainN.com RELAY > > > =- local-host-names -= > localhost > localhost.localdomain > domain1.com > mail.domain1.com > ... > domainN.com > mail.domainN.com > > > =- virtusertable -= > user-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domain1.com > @domain1.com admin.domain1.com > > user-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domain2.com > foo-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org foo.domain2.com > bar-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org bar.domain2.com > @domain2.com admin.domain2.com > > ... > > user-8ttO0WTGhi9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org user.domainN.com > @domainN.com admin.domainN.com > > > Then once everything is ready run: 'sendmailconfig' (if installed) or > do whatever you need to do on your server to (re)generate your *.db > files and to create the sendmail.cf file and restart sendmail. > > I *don't* pretend that these configs are free of typos! I just copied > from my (working) config files and substituded with fake data to protect > the innocent. Also, my config may not be optimal... I just know that it > works. :p > > HTH > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 16:33:30 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:33:30 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605180918v37ddd156wd0c24aea8e30dbb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139@mail.gmail.com> <446C92D3.1070906@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180918v37ddd156wd0c24aea8e30dbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446CA1DA.7080406@alteeve.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there! It worked! I created a new user for this account and just > used the virtusertable to forward mail ostensibly from the correct > user name to this "made up" account. Sweet! > > Thanks so much, > Aaron. w00ts! Glad you didn't have to beat your head to a blooming pulp like I did trying to get that working! :p So are you pushing mail from two email accounts to one unix user then? Curious to know if that in fact worked. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 17:26:39 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 13:26:39 -0400 Subject: Mail admin question: one user, multiple domains... In-Reply-To: <446CA1DA.7080406-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20605180702k73a0552bw2b5ab6073602594e@mail.gmail.com> <446C82A9.1040200@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180805n2075400bm76af6fc7b50fb139@mail.gmail.com> <446C92D3.1070906@alteeve.com> <4386c5b20605180918v37ddd156wd0c24aea8e30dbb@mail.gmail.com> <446CA1DA.7080406@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605181026x6c48d4a8yb45e4a1ddd164884@mail.gmail.com> No, I just followed your advice to the letter. What mattered more than anything was not that the same user, aaron, have separate accounts, but that the email addresses be "aaron-WNbSnoOWcWBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org" and "aaron-dL8jOpOjefRBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org". So your trick of virtualizing the user, moving mail from aaron.domain1.com to aaron worked great. I created that account and we were good to go. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/18/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Hi there! It worked! I created a new user for this account and just > > used the virtusertable to forward mail ostensibly from the correct > > user name to this "made up" account. Sweet! > > > > Thanks so much, > > Aaron. > > w00ts! > > Glad you didn't have to beat your head to a blooming pulp like I did > trying to get that working! :p So are you pushing mail from two email > accounts to one unix user then? Curious to know if that in fact worked. > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 18:08:01 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:08:01 -0400 Subject: Java on Fedora 5 Message-ID: <20060518140801.A27415@diamond.ss.org> I have been trying without much luck to get Java running on Fedora Core 5. I had little problem installing and getting it running on Core 4. Has anyone got Java running on C5 and if so was there anything special that you needed to do? Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 19:07:35 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:07:35 -0400 Subject: Java on Fedora 5 In-Reply-To: <20060518140801.A27415-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060518140801.A27415@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <446CC5F7.50804@uoguelph.ca> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have been trying without much luck to get Java running on Fedora Core 5. I had little problem installing and getting it running on Core 4. > > Has anyone got Java running on C5 and if so was there anything special that you needed to do? > > Bill > I installed Java on FC5 the same way I did on FC4; simply extracted to the /opt directory. Perhaps you could be more specific with what you're having trouble with? Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 19:39:59 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph ) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:39:59 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP In-Reply-To: <446CC5F7.50804-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <446CC5F7.50804@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 19:41:43 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:41:43 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP Message-ID: There are paid ones but most of them are binaries. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: May 18, 2006 3:40 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Rogers and NNTP Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:446ccd9c225618244918867! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 19:47:55 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:47:55 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP In-Reply-To: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> References: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> Message-ID: Something like GigaNews or EasyNews would work, but you are paying for the amount of bandwidth being used. This might not appeal for usage of text only NNTP access (I think the minimum amt. you have to pay for is something like 5-10GB of bandwidth per month). There's also Google Groups (groups.google.com), which is text-only, but web- based (no NNTP access). On May 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Joseph wrote: > > Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 20:04:19 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 16:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers and NNTPy In-Reply-To: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> References: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 May 2006, Joseph wrote: > > Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? Free servers: nntp.aioe.org usenet.zapto.org news.sunsite.dk Pay (but very reasonable): news.individual.net -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 20:22:36 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 16:22:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP Message-ID: If he's not uploading pictures, google group is a great place. You can even post to the group from web. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Sandrowicz Sent: May 18, 2006 3:48 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers and NNTP Something like GigaNews or EasyNews would work, but you are paying for the amount of bandwidth being used. This might not appeal for usage of text only NNTP access (I think the minimum amt. you have to pay for is something like 5-10GB of bandwidth per month). There's also Google Groups (groups.google.com), which is text-only, but web- based (no NNTP access). On May 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Joseph wrote: > > Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:446ccf8b227263298978031! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 18 22:07:12 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:07:12 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP In-Reply-To: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> References: <446CC5F7.50804@uoguelph.ca> <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> Message-ID: On 5/18/06, Joseph wrote: > > Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? I've been using http://www.teranews.com/ for several years. The occasional reliability problem, but not bad for a free service (50MB/day). There are pay accounts available too. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 00:43:55 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph ) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:43:55 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002201c67add$500e3fb0$9bb13141@unipc> I just came across teranews and was wondering how reliable it was for free. It does have a 1 time setup fee. BTW, I ask Rogers to lower my fees for the service that they were no longer providing. They said that since there wasn't a separate fee for NNTP there would be no reduction. I had the same discussion with them about going with Yahoo for email. I even told them that I could get Yahoo email for free. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:07 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers and NNTP On 5/18/06, Joseph wrote: > > Awhile back Rogers removed NNTP support. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on NNTP access? I've been using http://www.teranews.com/ for several years. The occasional reliability problem, but not bad for a free service (50MB/day). There are pay accounts available too. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 12:09:44 2006 From: zleap-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:09:44 +0100 Subject: testr Message-ID: Hi Just resubscribiing, and testing to see if the new set up works properly. as I am having problems logging into my other mail. Paul _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 12:23:28 2006 From: zleap-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:23:28 +0100 Subject: hello Message-ID: Hi I have just resubscribed to the list as there was problems logging into my zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org webmail from toronto. I am currently at the global village backpackers in king street, and looking to meet up at some point, so if anyone within a short distance and wants to meet up that would be good. I may head over to linuxcafee later today, and check it out, and see if I can log into webmail from there, not quite sure on my plans yet. I need to look for employment and accomodation, but I see meetings as a good networking opportuinity and a way to keep using linux and perhaps attend a few talks at the meetings which would be interesting look forward to meet up with you. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 14:20:26 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:20:26 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN Message-ID: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 14:51:10 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:51:10 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <200605191020.26707.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Jason Shein wrote: > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ Yes a nice read to star my day. One typical problem with this type of mainstream article though, the interviewer seems hopelessly uninformed. "KLS: Over the years, Linux has spawned other open technologies and even an open source spirit or open source philosophy. It has engendered stuff like Wikipedia, the online open source encyclopedia or even, some could argue, citizen journalism. What are your thoughts about that? LT: We shouldn't give credit to Linux per se. There were open source projects and free software before Linux was there. Linux in many ways is one of the more visible and one of the bigger technical projects in this area and it changed how people looked at it because Linux took both the practical and ideological approach. At the same time I don't think this whole "openness" notion is new..." Not one mention of FSF/GNU. Strange that :) Got to hand it to Linus for being rather humble throughout, especially at the end. Whether that was an editorial choice or not makes little difference, just good to have that part at the end in a position that even casual readers will check. So many people in various development (distros, projects, etc.) could take a few lessons from Linus, perhaps step back and make their projects less about ego and more about their project. What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, ideologically and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use both GNU and Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way doesn't it? THen again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not for Linux. Linus' penguin definitely beats Stallman's Yak or whatever it is in terms of cuddly factor... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 15:11:27 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DDB5E.906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50226.207.188.65.194.1148051487.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Linus' penguin definitely beats Stallman's Yak or whatever it is in > terms of cuddly factor... Reminiscent of the Flanders and Swan song, I'm not ha Helk I'm a GNU Looking at youuuu.... Consider yourself lucky that you can't hear me singing this. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 15:20:24 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:20:24 +0000 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DDB5E.906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Yes a nice read to star my day. One typical problem with this type of > mainstream article though, the interviewer seems hopelessly uninformed. > > "KLS: Over the years, Linux has spawned other open technologies and even > an open source spirit or open source philosophy. It has engendered stuff > like Wikipedia, the online open source encyclopedia or even, some could > argue, citizen journalism. What are your thoughts about that? > > LT: We shouldn't give credit to Linux per se. There were open source > projects and free software before Linux was there. Linux in many ways is > one of the more visible and one of the bigger technical projects in this > area and it changed how people looked at it because Linux took both the > practical and ideological approach. At the same time I don't think this > whole "openness" notion is new..." > > Not one mention of FSF/GNU. Strange that :) He and RMS aren't friends, and really aren't particularly friendly, in either direction. There has been enough unfriendliness expressed by RMS (the whole set of "GNU/Linux" demands have NOT been friendly) that I am neither shocked nor dismayed that Linus Torvalds would choose not to mention the FSF. > What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a > distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, ideologically > and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use both GNU and > Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way doesn't it? THen > again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not for Linux. "Open Source" actually shows off a third disagreeable character; it was a (more than just a little successful, in some ways) publicity stunt by Eric Raymond (yet another prickley character that isn't on speaking terms with RMS) in order to try to garner corporate support from people that would feel uncomfortable with supporting "freedom." It also has a dark side; companies participate in OSS out of some temporal convenience. Some have been known to drop out when it ceased to be convenient to their fiscal plans. > Linus' penguin definitely beats Stallman's Yak or whatever it is in > terms of cuddly factor... Or ESR's gun collection... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 15:23:07 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:23:07 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DDB5E.906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <446DE2DB.20800@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a > distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, ideologically > and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use both GNU and > Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way doesn't it? THen > again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not for Linux. From a practical point of view, GPL'ed (and the like) software is more welcoming of programmers, I think, because who wants to contribute to a program where there work is taken and that's that? If I am writing a program where I don't want or need any help then maybe free software makes sense but even then... If I am going to contribute to a pool of software, no matter how modestly, I would like to know that others will be compelled (legally or philosophically) to do the same if they benefit from my contribution. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 15:41:04 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:41:04 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DDB5E.906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Got to hand it to Linus for being rather humble throughout, especially at > the end. [SNIP] So many people in various development (distros, > projects, etc.) could take a few lessons from Linus, perhaps step back > and make their projects less about ego and more about their project. Linus has always been amazing that way - he has opinions, including some very strongly held ones (he has publicly stated that certain products are crap and he doesn't want to work with them), but it never seems to be about _him_. I've always had a huge respect for him because of this. Stallman on the other hand ... It's not about him, but it's sure as hell about HIS project. I think using the phrase "GNU/Linux" is counterproductive: no one is going to say it in daily use (too long when you can just say one or the other) so it becomes nothing but a political statement, a burden. I also think it's true that GNU, as good as their products are, really wouldn't be widely known without Linux. Everybody on this mailing list knows that gcc, ls, find, tar, and a hundred other utilities we use daily are courtesy of GNU. Saying "GNU/Linux" is an uphill battle to explain to newbies that someone other than Torvalds built a major part of the infrastructure. THEY DON'T CARE! When they learn enough about Linux, they'll figure it out. They don't need (or want) to know until then. > What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a > distinction exist? I wanted to download Xen today. The distinction is important to me because Xen is "free," but apparently no longer entirely "open." They want an email address before they'll let me have it and that pisses me off. And yes, I want the right to modify it myself, even though I'll hardly ever use it. I also want the guarantee that later versions will remain free (okay, the GPL doesn't totally guarantee that - but if someone goes closed-source, someone else can fork from the previous free codebase). There are frequently hidden costs to free-but-not-open software, the least of which is advertising spam in your inbox. You often have to click on a EULA for that free software that states that the software company and/or the BSA has the right to inventory your computer any time they want. Don't snort and say "they'd never do that!" They pay lawyers thousands of dollars to write those things, and they don't put any of that stuff in casually. Am I sounding paranoid? Think about what I said anyway - some of it might be true. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 16:09:44 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:09:44 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <446DEDC8.6070308@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Yes a nice read to star my day. One typical problem with this type of >> mainstream article though, the interviewer seems hopelessly uninformed. >> >> "KLS: Over the years, Linux has spawned other open technologies and even >> an open source spirit or open source philosophy. It has engendered stuff >> like Wikipedia, the online open source encyclopedia or even, some could >> argue, citizen journalism. What are your thoughts about that? >> >> LT: We shouldn't give credit to Linux per se. There were open source >> projects and free software before Linux was there. Linux in many ways is >> one of the more visible and one of the bigger technical projects in this >> area and it changed how people looked at it because Linux took both the >> practical and ideological approach. At the same time I don't think this >> whole "openness" notion is new..." >> >> Not one mention of FSF/GNU. Strange that :) > > He and RMS aren't friends, and really aren't particularly friendly, in > either direction. > > There has been enough unfriendliness expressed by RMS (the whole set > of "GNU/Linux" demands have NOT been friendly) that I am neither > shocked nor dismayed that Linus Torvalds would choose not to mention > the FSF. I was thinking both in terms of Linus, which as you've pointed out, is understandable, but also in terms of the inept interviewer. It may be that the question of GNU's relevance was deliberately not asked or edited out, but from the question, it seems most likely the case that the interviewer simply has no clue. Understandable in both cases. >> What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a >> distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, ideologically >> and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use both GNU and >> Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way doesn't it? THen >> again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not for Linux. > > "Open Source" actually shows off a third disagreeable character; it > was a (more than just a little successful, in some ways) publicity > stunt by Eric Raymond (yet another prickley character that isn't on > speaking terms with RMS) in order to try to garner corporate support > from people that would feel uncomfortable with supporting "freedom." Makes me think of this Everybody loves Eric Raymond post: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/effscked Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 16:15:40 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:15:40 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DE2DB.20800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <446DE2DB.20800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <446DEF2C.4020009@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such >> a distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, >> ideologically and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use >> both GNU and Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way >> doesn't it? THen again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not >> for Linux. > > From a practical point of view, GPL'ed (and the like) software is more > welcoming of programmers, I think, because who wants to contribute to a > program where there work is taken and that's that? If I am writing a > program where I don't want or need any help then maybe free software > makes sense but even then... If I am going to contribute to a pool of > software, no matter how modestly, I would like to know that others will > be compelled (legally or philosophically) to do the same if they benefit > from my contribution. That's a good point. Essentially weeds out anyone who would take unfair advantage of altruism. Keeps everyone honest and gives credit where credit is due. Then again, I wouldn't want my name associated with the pieces of w2k source code that I've seen... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 16:24:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:24:17 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446DF131.5040607@utoronto.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > On 5/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Got to hand it to Linus for being rather humble throughout, especially at >> the end. [SNIP] So many people in various development (distros, >> projects, etc.) could take a few lessons from Linus, perhaps step back >> and make their projects less about ego and more about their project. > > Linus has always been amazing that way - he has opinions, including > some very strongly held ones (he has publicly stated that certain > products are crap and he doesn't want to work with them), but it never > seems to be about _him_. I've always had a huge respect for him > because of this. Agreed. He somehow manages to keep out of the major flame wars and such, as he says, facilitating communication more than anything else. Seems like his approach is to work quietly and tirelessly so as to be able to maintain his ability to do precisely that. > Stallman on the other hand ... It's not about him, but it's sure as > hell about HIS project. I think using the phrase "GNU/Linux" is > counterproductive: no one is going to say it in daily use (too long > when you can just say one or the other) so it becomes nothing but a > political statement, a burden. I also think it's true that GNU, as > good as their products are, really wouldn't be widely known without > Linux. Everybody on this mailing list knows that gcc, ls, find, tar, > and a hundred other utilities we use daily are courtesy of GNU. > Saying "GNU/Linux" is an uphill battle to explain to newbies that > someone other than Torvalds built a major part of the infrastructure. > THEY DON'T CARE! When they learn enough about Linux, they'll figure > it out. They don't need (or want) to know until then. I guess that's my question really: is it necessary to have an ideologue now versus 1985? Of course maintaining and developing GNU is of the utmost importance, but is it necessary to have Stallman constantly badgering about his FSF? As you point out, we take GNU for granted. So is it a matter of needing him to remind those who grow complacent or unaware, or is such a role entirely redundant now that there are hundreds of self-sustaining FLOSS communities? (I dislike that term as well). >> What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a >> distinction exist? > > I wanted to download Xen today. The distinction is important to me > because Xen is "free," but apparently no longer entirely "open." They > want an email address before they'll let me have it and that pisses me > off. And yes, I want the right to modify it myself, even though I'll > hardly ever use it. I also want the guarantee that later versions > will remain free (okay, the GPL doesn't totally guarantee that - but > if someone goes closed-source, someone else can fork from the previous > free codebase). There are frequently hidden costs to > free-but-not-open software, the least of which is advertising spam in > your inbox. You often have to click on a EULA for that free software > that states that the software company and/or the BSA has the right to > inventory your computer any time they want. Don't snort and say > "they'd never do that!" They pay lawyers thousands of dollars to > write those things, and they don't put any of that stuff in casually. > > Am I sounding paranoid? Think about what I said anyway - some of it > might be true. I agree wholeheartedly. On an almost entirely unrelated and more technical note, has anyone tried using gnash on amd64 with Firefox? Looking forward to having an open source flash player, I won't use Flash otherwise. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 16:31:59 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:31:59 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DEF2C.4020009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <446DE2DB.20800@alteeve.com> <446DEF2C.4020009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <446DF2FF.2030509@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such >>> a distinction exist? Which of the two is the better term, >>> ideologically and/or practically? Considering we all pretty much use >>> both GNU and Linux, some credit deserves to be sent Stallman's way >>> doesn't it? THen again, perhaps we wouldn't be using GNU were it not >>> for Linux. >> >> From a practical point of view, GPL'ed (and the like) software is >> more welcoming of programmers, I think, because who wants to >> contribute to a program where there work is taken and that's that? If >> I am writing a program where I don't want or need any help then maybe >> free software makes sense but even then... If I am going to contribute >> to a pool of software, no matter how modestly, I would like to know >> that others will be compelled (legally or philosophically) to do the >> same if they benefit from my contribution. > > That's a good point. Essentially weeds out anyone who would take unfair > advantage of altruism. Keeps everyone honest and gives credit where > credit is due. Then again, I wouldn't want my name associated with the > pieces of w2k source code that I've seen... > > Jamon The quality of the code in question is a side issue, I think. I mean, I released my first backup program under the GPL and now, looking back on it, the code stinks. BUT. It is my humble contribution. If someone finds any of it useful to them then it was at least okay and I want to make sure that anyone who builds on it has to return the favour by releasing what they have done. If, on the other hand, my code stinks too much then ignore it and find "free" code released without my requirements that you can take and build on (ie: *BSD). Good or bad code, I think, a contributor to the pool of software would rather choose a GPL-like license. Free as in beer software is a great idea in practice, like communism, but not so great in practice. On the other side though closed software has too many negative sides to be good either. To me, the GPL (et. al.) is a great "middle ground". Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 19:09:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:09:30 -0500 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <200605191020.26707.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude to it all. Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do you regret using a macrokernel design?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 19:34:33 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:34:33 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DF2FF.2030509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <446DE2DB.20800@alteeve.com> <446DEF2C.4020009@utoronto.ca> <446DF2FF.2030509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1148067273.2691.381.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 12:31 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > Good or bad code, I think, a contributor to the pool of software would > rather choose a GPL-like license. Free as in beer software is a great > idea in practice, like communism, but not so great in practice. On the > other side though closed software has too many negative sides to be good > either. To me, the GPL (et. al.) is a great "middle ground". I like to differentiate between free and open source software. Considering that most non-programmers (and probably many Microsoft programmers) would consider all those P2P programs as "Free Software." Since most of those contain payloads of spyware I think that some have equated Free Software with Malware. That also means that, to those people, free would also mean proprietary. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 19 22:26:10 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 18:26:10 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. See http://www.infowars.com On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 14:09 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ > > It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too > silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely > or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude > to it all. > > Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do > you regret using a macrokernel design?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 01:26:09 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:26:09 -0400 Subject: Rogers and NNTP In-Reply-To: References: <000001c67ab2$da2e69c0$9bb13141@unipc> Message-ID: <20060520012609.GA9236@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 03:47:55PM -0400, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote > Something like GigaNews or EasyNews would work, but you are paying > for the amount of bandwidth being used. This might not appeal for > usage of text only NNTP access (I think the minimum amt. you have to > pay for is something like 5-10GB of bandwidth per month). There's > also Google Groups (groups.google.com), which is text-only, but web- > based (no NNTP access). Astraweb ( http://news.astraweb.com ) has pay-by-download plans. You buy a certain number of gigabytes, and keep downloading until you use it up. *IT DOES NOT EXPIRE!!!* You can always purchase additional gigabytes. I purchased 65 gigs on 2004-10-01. My current status is... Your Account: Pay-by-Download Account Status: Active Bytes Downloaded: 9,154,066,283 bytes (9.15 GB) Downloads Left: 55,845,933,717 bytes (55.85 GB) I use it mostly for text, with rare binary downloads. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 01:26:32 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:26:32 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148077570.4213.6.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <446E3808.15360.6178C51@pking123.sympatico.ca> This takes things a bit further off-topic, but I don't have a lot of respect for infowars.com. I know Alex Jones has been interviewed with a straight face on CNN, so that gives him and infowars respectability; and also his take on the 9-11 events haven't been *too* inconsistent with what I have seen elsewhere; but his views on historical and political events can sometimes be utterly batty, which undermines his whole effort. You don't need to go to infowars to prove that CNN cowtows to advertisers at times; you can check out less whacko sites such as www.fair.org, who have been keeping track of the news media for years. As for the interview, I found it a light read. I like to hear Torvalds express his attitude toward M$ and see that it is not an aggressive or negative attitude. While I am not a fan of M$, and could say all manner of negative things about it, I see him as trying to take the high road, and to raise the profile of Linux as a good OS in its own right, which would remain true whether M$ existed or not. I disagree that the interviewer was necessarily clueless. To me, he was respecting the fact that a typical CNN audience are not made up of uber-geeks and ninja programmers; but mostly of average people who want to learn more about the world around them. Coming from a point of view of Linux cluelessness and general curiosity about Linux was a deliberate interview tactic to get basic information across to the public. While it may reflect *actual* cluelessness is a different matter, but IMO, that didn't come across. Paul King On 19 May 2006 at 18:26, Rick Tomaschuk spaketh these wourdes: > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > See http://www.infowars.com > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 14:09 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > > > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ > > > > It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too > > silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely > > or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude > > to it all. > > > > Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do > > you regret using a macrokernel design?" > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1549 (20060519) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 03:13:00 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:13:00 -0500 Subject: make and change into a directory Message-ID: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to create a simple script to md + cd into a directory. It's much more difficult than I expect. First, I learn that I can't do something trivial like this. $ cat > ~/script.sh md $1 cd $1 ^D $ chmod +x script.sh ~/script.sh but this I already knew. I tried working with an alias, but I can't figure out how to use $1 twice or how to spit out two commands with one alias. i.e. this stuff won't work: alias mcd='md $1 ; cd $1' alias mcd='md {$1} ; cd {$1}' but even if I do this: alias mcd='echo $1 ; echo $1' then $1 is only usable once. $ mcd testing => => testing Then I tried to step back and have my md+cd in a script. I make a script which spits out the commands, like this: $ cat > ~/mcd.sh echo md $1 echo cd $1 ^D $ chmod +x script.sh and then I make an alias like this: $ alias mcd='eval $(~/mcd.sh)' and I run it like: $ mcd testing but this will only evaluate the first expression in ~/script.sh which makes the testing directory (but does not cd into it) I guess my question is: How can I make an alias do two things? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 03:50:15 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 23:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 May 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > I guess my question is: > How can I make an alias do two things? Define it as a function instead of an alias: mcd() { mkdir "$1" cd "$1" } --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 03:54:03 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 23:54:03 -0400 Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I guess my question is: > How can I make an alias do two things? Good question! Fun for the whole family ... $ alias a2e="echo -$1-; echo _$1_" $ a2e blah -- __ blah Holy crap, what happened there? If anyone can answer that, I'd really like to know, because that's seriously bizarre. Hmm - in light of the next paragraph ... perhaps what happens is that it ignores the argument entirely, echoes the dashes and underscores, and then drops the argument just because it was hanging around? Weird. In the bash man page it says "There is no mechanism for using arguments in the replacement text. If arguments are needed, a shell function should be used (see FUNCTIONS below)." I took the hint: $ function f2e () { echo -$1-; echo _$1_; } $ f2e blah -blah- _blah_ Success? "function mcd () { mkdir $1; cd $1; }" does appear to work as requested. Please note that the trailing semicolon is required. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 04:18:38 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 00:18:38 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446E3808.15360.6178C51-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <446E3808.15360.6178C51@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1148098718.4688.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Way back in college I took a course called 'Visions of the Media' or something like that and the focus was the lies advertisers, and the general mass media tell us. The point is that while we like to switch on the TV and believe we are being told the truth there exist other forces at work which dictate the 'slant' of the truth we are receiving. Whether infowars.com, Micheal Moore etc. is true or not is largely irrelevant. If you take enough half truths and mix them up eventually you'll get something which resembles the whole truth. Free speech is a major component of infowars.com, the truth is secondary. CNN exists first and foremost to make lots of money for the owners. If CNN told me to run north to safety I'd run in any other direction except north. On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 21:26 -0400, Paul King wrote: > This takes things a bit further off-topic, but I don't have a lot of respect for > infowars.com. I know Alex Jones has been interviewed with a straight face on CNN, > so that gives him and infowars respectability; and also his take on the 9-11 > events haven't been *too* inconsistent with what I have seen elsewhere; but his > views on historical and political events can sometimes be utterly batty, which > undermines his whole effort. > > You don't need to go to infowars to prove that CNN cowtows to advertisers at > times; you can check out less whacko sites such as www.fair.org, who have been > keeping track of the news media for years. > > As for the interview, I found it a light read. I like to hear Torvalds express > his attitude toward M$ and see that it is not an aggressive or negative attitude. > While I am not a fan of M$, and could say all manner of negative things about it, > I see him as trying to take the high road, and to raise the profile of Linux as a > good OS in its own right, which would remain true whether M$ existed or not. > > I disagree that the interviewer was necessarily clueless. To me, he was > respecting the fact that a typical CNN audience are not made up of uber-geeks and > ninja programmers; but mostly of average people who want to learn more about the > world around them. Coming from a point of view of Linux cluelessness and general > curiosity about Linux was a deliberate interview tactic to get basic information > across to the public. While it may reflect *actual* cluelessness is a different > matter, but IMO, that didn't come across. > > Paul King > > On 19 May 2006 at 18:26, Rick Tomaschuk spaketh these wourdes: > > > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > > See http://www.infowars.com > > > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 14:09 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > > On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > > > > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > > > > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ > > > > > > It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too > > > silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely > > > or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude > > > to it all. > > > > > > Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do > > > you regret using a macrokernel design?" > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1549 (20060519) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 04:37:40 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 00:37:40 -0400 Subject: info and man Message-ID: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. Am I the only one who finds info unwieldy and difficult to navigate through? I use the word "difficult" loosely. If all I want is the manpage for a command, I shouldn't have to navigate through anything except that single document. The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). A new user would now have to know both less and whatever the thing is that is used to navigate through the info nodes. I am not interested in navigating through nodes; I just want information on a command. What is the word on man? Is that being phased out? Do we now have to store two formats of the same documentation? I noticed that doing an "info ls" gives me the manpage inside of info. Are they similar formats? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 05:03:27 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 01:03:27 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148098718.4688.8.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <446E3808.15360.6178C51@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1148098718.4688.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1148101407.6928.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 00:18 -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Way back in college I took a course called 'Visions of the Media' or > something like that and the focus was the lies advertisers, and the > general mass media tell us. The point is that while we like to switch on > the TV and believe we are being told the truth there exist other forces > at work which dictate the 'slant' of the truth we are receiving. Whether > infowars.com, Micheal Moore etc. is true or not is largely irrelevant. > If you take enough half truths and mix them up eventually you'll get > something which resembles the whole truth. Free speech is a major > component of infowars.com, the truth is secondary. CNN exists first and > foremost to make lots of money for the owners. If CNN told me to run > north to safety I'd run in any other direction except north. If you re-read what I said below, I was clear about not dumping everything Alex Jones says into the ocean. I respect the fact that he excercises his right to speak freely, and thank God he does. I am just saying that if *I* am looking for an information source that is halfway reliable, I wouldn't look to infowars.com when there are more reliable sources that are more level-headed. If Alex wants to say that the United States secretly supported the Bolshevik overthrow of the Czar of Russia (which he did in a documentary he made, without offering evidence to support this theory), I still can rely on my discernment to guide my judgement of that information. But of course, in a Free country, Alex ought to be free to spew any nutty idea that pops into his head without fear of getting arrested. I am OK with that. Things like this idea that the States secretly supported the rise of communism in Russia undermines his credibility and the credibility of anyone else with similar but more sober views (such as Micheal Moore) that want to get their message out. Paul > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 21:26 -0400, Paul King wrote: > > This takes things a bit further off-topic, but I don't have a lot of respect for > > infowars.com. I know Alex Jones has been interviewed with a straight face on CNN, > > so that gives him and infowars respectability; and also his take on the 9-11 > > events haven't been *too* inconsistent with what I have seen elsewhere; but his > > views on historical and political events can sometimes be utterly batty, which > > undermines his whole effort. > > > > You don't need to go to infowars to prove that CNN cowtows to advertisers at > > times; you can check out less whacko sites such as www.fair.org, who have been > > keeping track of the news media for years. > > > > As for the interview, I found it a light read. I like to hear Torvalds express > > his attitude toward M$ and see that it is not an aggressive or negative attitude. > > While I am not a fan of M$, and could say all manner of negative things about it, > > I see him as trying to take the high road, and to raise the profile of Linux as a > > good OS in its own right, which would remain true whether M$ existed or not. > > > > I disagree that the interviewer was necessarily clueless. To me, he was > > respecting the fact that a typical CNN audience are not made up of uber-geeks and > > ninja programmers; but mostly of average people who want to learn more about the > > world around them. Coming from a point of view of Linux cluelessness and general > > curiosity about Linux was a deliberate interview tactic to get basic information > > across to the public. While it may reflect *actual* cluelessness is a different > > matter, but IMO, that didn't come across. > > > > Paul King > > > > On 19 May 2006 at 18:26, Rick Tomaschuk spaketh these wourdes: > > > > > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > > > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > > > See http://www.infowars.com > > > > > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 14:09 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > > > On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > > > > > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > > > > > > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ > > > > > > > > It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too > > > > silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely > > > > or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude > > > > to it all. > > > > > > > > Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do > > > > you regret using a macrokernel design?" > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1549 (20060519) Information __________ > > > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 08:36:47 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:36:47 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148077570.4213.6.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > See http://www.infowars.com Most news outfits 'manipulate' what they report in ways that correspond to their 'position' on certain issues. This is not hard, and it is not as bent as some want us to believe. Nowadays most news are syndicated and putting together an edition is more like shopping in a supermarket, but it is done in the syndication feeds. Excepting the in-house reporting, which is special-ordered in advance, most news, including from their own reporters, come in as they happen. It is up to the editor to select what goes up. Thus given a choice between different reporters covering the same issue he/she can select a report on a specific issue written/scripted by someone known 'not to stir s**t' with advertisers and/or politicians and/or otherwise be out of grace with what is 'politically correct' at the moment. It's all up to the editor. Of course he/she could show cojones on some issue or another. Often this results in a fired or early retired editor. What is more worrying is that I happen to follow news in about 4 languages, and they are identical. Not just the headlines, but the 'page 2' etc articles too. Excepting some fringe publications (on the web) or online newspapers from Elbonia everyone has the exact same news, often from the same source (see syndication above). TV news are also almost identical. So much for 'independent reporting'. And people are worried about certain governments manipulating the media ? Sheesh. What is even worse is that people watch TV news to the tune of two hours per day. They see the same nice people talking, and are more likely to believe what they are saying than what the politicians they have elected to represent them in government are saying. Most people would be hard put to identify their local elected representative on the street but would immediately spot a news anchor driving by in his/her car. Grabbing the opportunity, there are several news anchors in the world who have successfully run for government positions following longer or shorter careers in front of the cameras or just microphones. The impact of everyday economical issues is distorted accordingly. War somewhere in Africa ? Everyone talks about it. The 3% gas price hike tomorrow ? Oh, we can't help it. 'Reality' news are a form of circus for the people imho. Peter who quit watching TV more than 10 years ago. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 08:57:51 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:57:51 +0300 (IDT) Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Paul King wrote: > What is the word on man? Is that being phased out? Do we now have to > store two formats of the same documentation? I noticed that doing an > "info ls" gives me the manpage inside of info. Are they similar formats? Man is not being phased out because noone can afford to translate tons of old manpages (which defy machine translation). Instead, there is a web interface both for man and for info. Info navigation is 'emacsish' if that means anything to you. This makes sense if you take into account who wrote it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 09:06:03 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 12:06:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Paul King wrote: > What is the word on man? Is that being phased out? Do we now have to > store two formats of the same documentation? I noticed that doing an > "info ls" gives me the manpage inside of info. Are they similar formats? Fwiw info is plain text with (rare) markup of the form: ^\* MenuSelection\. Description$ and ^-*- Something -*-$ You can read the info files with less. They are in /usr/local/info usually. There is a dir file that is an index to everything. There are some special control characters used in the files. Ignore them. You must realise that info is a hypertext format that predates the www. It is much more terse than the www and although the reader could have friendlier commands it is not so bad imho. You can always use a web interface to read info files. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 10:44:26 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 06:44:26 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <446EF30A.1060308@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: > This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has > adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. > > Am I the only one who finds info unwieldy and difficult to navigate > through? I use the word "difficult" loosely. If all I want is the > manpage for a command, I shouldn't have to navigate through anything > except that single document. > > The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the > conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less > (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted > documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). If you're using KDE, press alt-f2 and then in the box ##. Use only one # for man pages. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 11:39:21 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 06:39:21 -0500 Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605200439t669b6b0fp48c388076d331e23@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/06, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Fri, 19 May 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > > > I guess my question is: > > How can I make an alias do two things? > > Define it as a function instead of an alias: > > mcd() { > mkdir "$1" > cd "$1" > } Woohoo! =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 11:45:29 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 06:45:29 -0500 Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605200445i2b0ad9f9i5d7059ffa0d2373a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/06, Giles Orr wrote: > On 5/19/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > I guess my question is: > > How can I make an alias do two things? > > Good question! Fun for the whole family ... > > $ alias a2e="echo -$1-; echo _$1_" > $ a2e blah > -- > __ blah I noticed this. I scratched my head and continued searching for answers. I figured that $1 was only available once in this context. > In the bash man page it says "There is no mechanism for using > arguments in the replacement text. If arguments are needed, a > shell function should be used (see FUNCTIONS below)." I took the > hint: I saw this, but at this point I threw my hands up at the docs for being unhelpful. I should have read up on functions, but I wanted more examples without needing to learn too much from scratch. > $ function f2e () { echo -$1-; echo _$1_; } > $ f2e blah > -blah- > _blah_ > > Success? "function mcd () { mkdir $1; cd $1; }" does appear to work > as requested. Please note that the trailing semicolon is required. Aah. In Behdad's example there was an extra carriage return like so: mcd() { mkdir "$1" cd "$1" } so perhaps this functionality carried over in the single-line version of it. .. It seems that I'm forced to learn bash stuff, because a lot of its quirks carry over into the commandline tools I'm beginning to build (in Ruby). Thanks a lot for the insight. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 14:24:18 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:24:18 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148101407.6928.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <446E3808.15360.6178C51@pking123.sympatico.ca> <1148098718.4688.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148101407.6928.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1148135058.4933.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Maybe some obscure branch of the CIA or ??? supported the Czar's overthrow. Who knows? I wasn't born yet. From what I've learned about the Czar's rule, putting them up against a wall was being polite, not that what followed was much better. If CNN wants Linux Torvalds something is 'going on'. CNN has ignored Linux for a many years. Send them an email complaining you can't view video on their site. CNN's response is to get Windows (not Pella or Anderson). Fox news while somewhat 'nutty' supports Linux video. ABCNews does'nt. RickT "The Da Vinci what???" On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 01:03 -0400, Paul King wrote: > If you re-read what I said below, I was clear about not dumping > everything Alex Jones says into the ocean. I respect the fact that he > excercises his right to speak freely, and thank God he does. I am just > saying that if *I* am looking for an information source that is halfway > reliable, I wouldn't look to infowars.com when there are more reliable > sources that are more level-headed. If Alex wants to say that the United > States secretly supported the Bolshevik overthrow of the Czar of Russia > (which he did in a documentary he made, without offering evidence to > support this theory), I still can rely on my discernment to guide my > judgement of that information. But of course, in a Free country, Alex > ought to be free to spew any nutty idea that pops into his head without > fear of getting arrested. I am OK with that. > > Things like this idea that the States secretly supported the rise of > communism in Russia undermines his credibility and the credibility of > anyone else with similar but more sober views (such as Micheal Moore) > that want to get their message out. > > Paul > > > > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 21:26 -0400, Paul King wrote: > > > This takes things a bit further off-topic, but I don't have a lot of respect for > > > infowars.com. I know Alex Jones has been interviewed with a straight face on CNN, > > > so that gives him and infowars respectability; and also his take on the 9-11 > > > events haven't been *too* inconsistent with what I have seen elsewhere; but his > > > views on historical and political events can sometimes be utterly batty, which > > > undermines his whole effort. > > > > > > You don't need to go to infowars to prove that CNN cowtows to advertisers at > > > times; you can check out less whacko sites such as www.fair.org, who have been > > > keeping track of the news media for years. > > > > > > As for the interview, I found it a light read. I like to hear Torvalds express > > > his attitude toward M$ and see that it is not an aggressive or negative attitude. > > > While I am not a fan of M$, and could say all manner of negative things about it, > > > I see him as trying to take the high road, and to raise the profile of Linux as a > > > good OS in its own right, which would remain true whether M$ existed or not. > > > > > > I disagree that the interviewer was necessarily clueless. To me, he was > > > respecting the fact that a typical CNN audience are not made up of uber-geeks and > > > ninja programmers; but mostly of average people who want to learn more about the > > > world around them. Coming from a point of view of Linux cluelessness and general > > > curiosity about Linux was a deliberate interview tactic to get basic information > > > across to the public. While it may reflect *actual* cluelessness is a different > > > matter, but IMO, that didn't come across. > > > > > > Paul King > > > > > > On 19 May 2006 at 18:26, Rick Tomaschuk spaketh these wourdes: > > > > > > > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > > > > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > > > > See http://www.infowars.com > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 14:09 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > > > > On 5/19/06, Jason Shein wrote: > > > > > > Good to see more exposure in the mainstream media. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ > > > > > > > > > > It was a comfortable and relaxed read. I'm glad it didn't get too > > > > > silly/political. Some of the questions were.. uninformed (purposely > > > > > or otherwise, they were odd). Linus definitely has nice calm attitude > > > > > to it all. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, with that forum I wouldn't have expected questions like "do > > > > > you regret using a macrokernel design?" > > > > > -- > > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1549 (20060519) Information __________ > > > > > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 14:31:58 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:31:58 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1148135518.4933.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> How often when you go to CBC.CA are the headlines Canadian? Or CNN etc. It's almost a joke. The North American media seems to be focused on just about anything except the issues at home. An old expression goes something like: If you spent more time minding your own business you wouldn't have time to stick your nose into others affairs. While our industry and economy goes down the toilet we're preoccupied with issues elsewhere. "The Da Vinci what???" On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 11:36 +0300, Peter wrote: > > I think CNN not only reports the news but also like newspapers can > > appear to manipulate the news to their own (advertisers) benefits. > > See http://www.infowars.com > > Most news outfits 'manipulate' what they report in ways that correspond > to their 'position' on certain issues. This is not hard, and it is not > as bent as some want us to believe. Nowadays most news are syndicated > and putting together an edition is more like shopping in a supermarket, > but it is done in the syndication feeds. Excepting the in-house > reporting, which is special-ordered in advance, most news, including > from their own reporters, come in as they happen. It is up to the editor > to select what goes up. Thus given a choice between different reporters > covering the same issue he/she can select a report on a specific issue > written/scripted by someone known 'not to stir s**t' with advertisers > and/or politicians and/or otherwise be out of grace with what is > 'politically correct' at the moment. It's all up to the editor. Of > course he/she could show cojones on some issue or another. Often this > results in a fired or early retired editor. > > What is more worrying is that I happen to follow news in about 4 > languages, and they are identical. Not just the headlines, but the 'page > 2' etc articles too. Excepting some fringe publications (on the web) or > online newspapers from Elbonia everyone has the exact same news, often > from the same source (see syndication above). TV news are also almost > identical. So much for 'independent reporting'. And people are worried > about certain governments manipulating the media ? Sheesh. > > What is even worse is that people watch TV news to the tune of two hours > per day. They see the same nice people talking, and are more likely to > believe what they are saying than what the politicians they have elected > to represent them in government are saying. Most people would be hard > put to identify their local elected representative on the street but > would immediately spot a news anchor driving by in his/her car. Grabbing > the opportunity, there are several news anchors in the world who have > successfully run for government positions following longer or shorter > careers in front of the cameras or just microphones. > > The impact of everyday economical issues is distorted accordingly. War > somewhere in Africa ? Everyone talks about it. The 3% gas price hike > tomorrow ? Oh, we can't help it. 'Reality' news are a form of circus > for the people imho. > > Peter > who quit watching TV more than 10 years ago. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 15:27:41 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:27:41 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1f13df280605200827g59906182jfa228c1a037b4480@mail.gmail.com> I'm with you - I hate "info," both the format and the viewer. This doesn't directly address your question, but may help to some extent: install and try out the "pinfo" viewer (it's been around a while, should be available as an automagic package for any major system). It has a more intuitive interface, including clever ideas like pressing the forward arrow on links to other nodes, and the back arrow to return. On 5/20/06, Paul King wrote: > This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has > adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. > > Am I the only one who finds info unwieldy and difficult to navigate > through? I use the word "difficult" loosely. If all I want is the > manpage for a command, I shouldn't have to navigate through anything > except that single document. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 15:28:01 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: make and change into a directoryy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 May 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm trying to create a simple script to md + cd into a directory. > It's much more difficult than I expect. > > First, I learn that I can't do something trivial like this. > > $ cat > ~/script.sh > md $1 > cd $1 > ^D > $ chmod +x script.sh > ~/script.sh > > but this I already knew. I tried working with an alias, but I can't > figure out how to use $1 twice or how to spit out two commands with > one alias. > > i.e. this stuff won't work: > alias mcd='md $1 ; cd $1' > alias mcd='md {$1} ; cd {$1}' > > but even if I do this: > alias mcd='echo $1 ; echo $1' > > then $1 is only usable once. > $ mcd testing > => > => testing An alias doesn't do any replacement of arguments. > Then I tried to step back and have my md+cd in a script. > > I make a script which spits out the commands, like this: > $ cat > ~/mcd.sh > echo md $1 > echo cd $1 > ^D > $ chmod +x script.sh > > and then I make an alias like this: > $ alias mcd='eval $(~/mcd.sh)' > > and I run it like: > $ mcd testing > > but this will only evaluate the first expression in ~/script.sh which > makes the testing directory (but does not cd into it) I doubt that it does even that. You are not passing any arguments to the script. > I guess my question is: > How can I make an alias do two things? You don't. An alias is a simple replacement of the command. As the bash man page says, "For almost every purpose, aliases are superseded by shell functions." You cannot use a script, because a process cannot affect its parent. Write a function, and put it in your .bash_profile or .bashrc: mcd() { mkdir -p "$1" && cd "$1" } To make it work in your current shell, enter it at the prompt. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 19:17:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 22:17:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148135518.4933.16.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148135518.4933.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > How often when you go to CBC.CA are the headlines Canadian? Or CNN etc. > It's almost a joke. The North American media seems to be focused on just > about anything except the issues at home. Beg pardon, it is not just NA. I did mention that this is global. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 22:22:48 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:22:48 -0400 Subject: console font -- which one? Message-ID: <20060520222248.GA5585@wp.magstar.net> I'm currently using 'lat0-16.psfu.gz' as my console font. But, it's a bit too heavy. What I want is, something closer to Courier font that I'm using on Xterm. Does anyone here use something like that? PS. I tried booting with 'vga=775' (160x64) in conjunction with 'iso01-12x22.psfu.gz' font. Nice and very readable. But, is not really suitable for programming codes. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 22:25:47 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:25:47 -0400 Subject: dadadodo Message-ID: <1148163947.21177.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have been going through debian's package manager (synaptic), and came across a curious package called dadadodo. It is described as a program that "Exterminates all rational thought". Oh dear. Paul King :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 22:32:54 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:32:54 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148135518.4933.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1148164374.6610.3.camel@spot1.localhost.com> So while everyone is minding everyone else's business China will slip in and gain control of everything because we will all grow tired of working. ;) BTW I know the CIA didn't exist before WWII. RickT "The Da Vinci what???" On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 22:17 +0300, Peter wrote: > Beg pardon, it is not just NA. I did mention that this is global. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 22:56:34 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:56:34 -0400 Subject: dadadodo In-Reply-To: <1148163947.21177.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148163947.21177.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1148165794.6610.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Product developer currently under threat of litigation pending an out of court settlement with Microsoft Corporation who claim ownership of prior art. Stay tuned to CNN for details. "Da Vinci's comb found" On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 18:25 -0400, Paul King wrote: > I have been going through debian's package manager (synaptic), and came > across a curious package called dadadodo. It is described as a program > that "Exterminates all rational thought". > > Oh dear. > > Paul King > > :-) > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 20 23:01:03 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 02:01:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <1148164374.6610.3.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1e55af990605191209l74285ad9i3880d7fdd283edeb@mail.gmail.com> <1148077570.4213.6.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148135518.4933.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148164374.6610.3.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > So while everyone is minding everyone else's business China will slip in > and gain control of everything because we will all grow tired of > working. ;) BTW I know the CIA didn't exist before WWII. Come to think of it, you *are* watching all the news using China-made semiconductors. What is ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 03:18:39 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 23:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: dadadodo In-Reply-To: <1148163947.21177.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148163947.21177.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Paul King wrote: > I have been going through debian's package manager (synaptic), and came > across a curious package called dadadodo. It is described as a program > that "Exterminates all rational thought". Be sure to install the "sl" package while you are there :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 17:52:40 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:52:40 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer Message-ID: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> Hello I am still struggling in my on-going battle to get my printer to work. >From what I have been able to make out from the Debian (sarge) docs, CUPS appears to be the only server to understand a networked printer. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I would gladly use the BSD-style lprng program (which I understand better), but I am unsure about how to enter a URI for my printer there. The printer is standalone on my home network. It is wireless. I am able to telnet to it, stick my nose in here and there, and print a test page from the telnet session, which gives me all kinds of stats on the printer and its settings. I figure if I can do that, printing documents can't be too far-fetched an ambition with this printer. This is a printer in the Brother MFC Inkjet/Scanner/Fax/Photocopier vein. It lists my network router as the primary DNS, IP gateway, and DHCP server. Under windows it works fine. So, I configured CUPS for a networked printer. I su'ed to root, and did a cupsdconf. I redirected the error messages to a file, and here is what I got - a long string of error messages and warnings. Most of the warnings seemed to apply to various default Debian settings. Other errors appeared to apply to the fact that I issued the command from GNOME, and cupsdconf appears to be compiled under KDE. After leaving cupsdconf, the size of the /var/run/cupsd/printcap file is ZERO (0). Paul King Below this line are cupsdconf error messages ONLY. If you are not interested, you can stop reading now. =============>8 snip >8===================================== Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used kbuildsycoca running... Reusing existing ksycoca kbuildsycoca: WARNING: Property 'X-KDE-Weight' is defined multiple times (KOfficeFilter) kio (KService*): WARNING: The desktop entry file Utilities/kfilereplacepart.desktop has Type=Service but is located under "apps" instead of "services" kio (KService*): WARNING: Invalid Service : Utilities/kfilereplacepart.desktop kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/themus-theme-applier.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gnome-theme-installed' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/sodipodi.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg+xml,image/svg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-javascript' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-python' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/bluefish-project' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/javascript' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-cgi' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_ooo.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_ooo.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-asp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-javascript' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/javascript' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-screem' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-screem-tag-tree' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-extension-mp4' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/dv' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/msvideo' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-anim' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-avi' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-nsv' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-flc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-fli' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-matroska' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-m4a' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asx' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-wax' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-real-audio' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'misc/ultravox' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-aiff' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-au' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-wav' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-acm' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/vnd.rn-realpix' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kvoctrain.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-kvtml' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-eim' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/tab-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-authors' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-copying' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-credits' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-csh' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dcl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dsl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-emacs-lisp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-fortran' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-gtkrc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-idl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-install' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-python' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-readme' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-scheme' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-setext' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sh' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kpovmodeler.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPovModeler/Document' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kivioconnectortool.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645math.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645math.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/math.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/math.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/jpg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-gray' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-icb' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xbitmap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xpixmap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/planner.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-planner' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645impress.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.ms-powerpoint' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645impress.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.impress' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/impress.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.impress' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xcf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-eim' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kcertpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/binary-certificate' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/g3fax' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/jpg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-compressed-xcf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-fits' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-gray' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sgi' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sun-raster' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-tga' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xbitmap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xcf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xpixmap' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xwindowdump' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kmid.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/midi' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/wav' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp3' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/web.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/web.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer.global' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/rtf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/abiword' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.calc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.chart' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.lotus-1-2-3' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.calc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/calc.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.chart' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gfloppy.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'x-device/floppy' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/dia.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-dia-diagram' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'katepart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-fortran' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kiviotexttool.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/excel' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-excel' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-ms-excel' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-msexcel' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-xls' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/xls' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-dos_ms_excel' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'zz-application/zz-winassoc-xls' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/csv' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/tab-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/comma-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/csv' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/spreadsheet' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/tab-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.lotus-1-2-3' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-123' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-applix-spreadsheet' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-mps' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-oleo' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-planperfect' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-sc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-sylk' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-xbase' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnome-stones.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gnome-stones' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'knotify.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KNotify' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp3' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mpg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/wav' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-wav' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-acm' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-pcm' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/vnd.rn-realtext' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.rn-realmedia-secure' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.rn-realaudio-secure' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-realaudio-secure' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/vnd.rn-realvideo-secure' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-realaudio' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.rn-realmedia-vbr' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/vnd.rn-realpix' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.rn-realsystem-rmj' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.rn-realsystem-rmx' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-aac' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/m4a' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-m4a' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp2' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp1' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mp1' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/rn-mpeg' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/scpls' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-smil' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/streamingmedia' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-streamingmedia' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/sdp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-au' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/aiff' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-aiff' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/3gpp' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/3gpp-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-wb' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-wb-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-wb' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-wb-encrypted' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp2' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-3gpp2' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kivioselecttool.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-bzip-compressed-tar' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-compressed-tar' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gtar' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-lhz' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-rar-compressed' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-zip-compressed' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/zip' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'multipart/x-zip' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-java-archive' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-cd-image' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645draw.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.draw' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/draw.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.draw' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kiviozoomtool.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Editors/texmacs.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/texmacs' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Editors/texmacs.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'showimgpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-krl' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-doc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.wordperfect' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/rtf' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-doc' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kword' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kpresenter' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kspread' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.karbon' kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kontour' cupsGetConf: unauthorized... Mutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 16444, errno = 2 =============>8 snip >8=======end of error messages=========== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 19:08:00 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 15:08:00 -0400 Subject: gnash was: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <446DF131.5040607-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> <446DF131.5040607@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4470BA90.2070905@uoguelph.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Giles Orr wrote: >> On 5/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> Got to hand it to Linus for being rather humble throughout, >>> especially at >>> the end. [SNIP] So many people in various development (distros, >>> projects, etc.) could take a few lessons from Linus, perhaps step back >>> and make their projects less about ego and more about their project. >> >> Linus has always been amazing that way - he has opinions, including >> some very strongly held ones (he has publicly stated that certain >> products are crap and he doesn't want to work with them), but it never >> seems to be about _him_. I've always had a huge respect for him >> because of this. > > Agreed. He somehow manages to keep out of the major flame wars and such, > as he says, facilitating communication more than anything else. Seems > like his approach is to work quietly and tirelessly so as to be able to > maintain his ability to do precisely that. > >> Stallman on the other hand ... It's not about him, but it's sure as >> hell about HIS project. I think using the phrase "GNU/Linux" is >> counterproductive: no one is going to say it in daily use (too long >> when you can just say one or the other) so it becomes nothing but a >> political statement, a burden. I also think it's true that GNU, as >> good as their products are, really wouldn't be widely known without >> Linux. Everybody on this mailing list knows that gcc, ls, find, tar, >> and a hundred other utilities we use daily are courtesy of GNU. >> Saying "GNU/Linux" is an uphill battle to explain to newbies that >> someone other than Torvalds built a major part of the infrastructure. >> THEY DON'T CARE! When they learn enough about Linux, they'll figure >> it out. They don't need (or want) to know until then. > > I guess that's my question really: is it necessary to have an ideologue > now versus 1985? Of course maintaining and developing GNU is of the > utmost importance, but is it necessary to have Stallman constantly > badgering about his FSF? As you point out, we take GNU for granted. So > is it a matter of needing him to remind those who grow complacent or > unaware, or is such a role entirely redundant now that there are > hundreds of self-sustaining FLOSS communities? (I dislike that term as > well). > >>> What are people's thoughts on open source vs. free software? Can such a >>> distinction exist? >> >> I wanted to download Xen today. The distinction is important to me >> because Xen is "free," but apparently no longer entirely "open." They >> want an email address before they'll let me have it and that pisses me >> off. And yes, I want the right to modify it myself, even though I'll >> hardly ever use it. I also want the guarantee that later versions >> will remain free (okay, the GPL doesn't totally guarantee that - but >> if someone goes closed-source, someone else can fork from the previous >> free codebase). There are frequently hidden costs to >> free-but-not-open software, the least of which is advertising spam in >> your inbox. You often have to click on a EULA for that free software >> that states that the software company and/or the BSA has the right to >> inventory your computer any time they want. Don't snort and say >> "they'd never do that!" They pay lawyers thousands of dollars to >> write those things, and they don't put any of that stuff in casually. >> >> Am I sounding paranoid? Think about what I said anyway - some of it >> might be true. > > I agree wholeheartedly. > > On an almost entirely unrelated and more technical note, has anyone > tried using gnash on amd64 with Firefox? Looking forward to having an > open source flash player, I won't use Flash otherwise. > > Jamon This is the first I've heard of gnash and I really hate flash on Linux; it's outdated and it won't play sound if anything else is making noise. So, I downloaded, compiled and install gnash. It had the same problems (no sound at all) and sometimes didn't play movies in webpages at all. Is this just the current state of the software or is anyone using this as a replacement for flash? Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 19:55:26 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:55:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: gnash was: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <4470BA90.2070905-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> <446DF131.5040607@utoronto.ca> <4470BA90.2070905@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > This is the first I've heard of gnash and I really hate flash on Linux; it's > outdated and it won't play sound if anything else is making noise. So, I > downloaded, compiled and install gnash. It had the same problems (no sound > at all) and sometimes didn't play movies in webpages at all. Is this just > the current state of the software or is anyone using this as a replacement > for flash? Flash works fine, upgrade your sound system to alsa and it will play umpteen sources at once. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 20:21:56 2006 From: sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org (Sacha Chua) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:21:56 -0400 Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Giles Orr's message of "Fri, 19 May 2006 23:54:03 -0400") References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87wtcfnn6j.fsf@sacha.adphoto.com.ph> "Giles Orr" writes: > Good question! Fun for the whole family ... > $ alias a2e="echo -$1-; echo _$1_" > $ a2e blah > -- > __ blah I suspect what's happening here is that $1 is substituted with "" and the alias expansion happens as normal. ALIAS OTHER_PARAMETERS becomes ALIAS_EXPANSION OTHER_PARAMETERS. echo -$1-; echo _$1_ blah echo --; echo __ blah ... looks just about right. -- Sacha Chua - http://sacha.free.net.ph/ Technology evangelist, speaker, and apprentice of all things University of Toronto - IBM Center for Advanced Studies, Toronto Interests: enterprise social computing (particularly bookmarking) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 20:21:46 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free (as in beer) 14" VGA monitors Message-ID: I'm trying to make more space in the museum that is my home. If you would like one or more of these 14" VGA monitors, ask soon. NEC Ready, Model OP-320-10001 Manufactured 1992 November Can't find specs. Guess: 800x600. Princeton Ultra 40 Specs: http://www.princetondigitalusa.com/download/datasheet/ULTRA40.pdf Manufactured 1996 September Samsung SyncMaster 3Ne 14", 1024x768, Multisync. Specs are sparse: http://www.monitorworld.com/Monitors/samsung/syncmaster3necvp4237p.html Manufactured 1995 September Hugh Redelmeier -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 20:23:10 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:23:10 -0400 Subject: gnash was: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> <446DF131.5040607@utoronto.ca> <4470BA90.2070905@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <4470CC2E.2060006@uoguelph.ca> Peter wrote: > > On Sun, 21 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > >> This is the first I've heard of gnash and I really hate flash on >> Linux; it's outdated and it won't play sound if anything else is >> making noise. So, I downloaded, compiled and install gnash. It had >> the same problems (no sound at all) and sometimes didn't play movies >> in webpages at all. Is this just the current state of the software or >> is anyone using this as a replacement for flash? > > Flash works fine, upgrade your sound system to alsa and it will play > umpteen sources at once. > > Peter I've been using ALSA for a while now. Perhaps I need to tell flash to use ALSA? -Tom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 21 21:28:59 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 00:28:59 +0300 (IDT) Subject: gnash was: Linus Torvalds interview on CNN In-Reply-To: <4470CC2E.2060006-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605191020.26707.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <446DDB5E.906@utoronto.ca> <1f13df280605190841i57364cd6w11aa28bc68f9db56@mail.gmail.com> <446DF131.5040607@utoronto.ca> <4470BA90.2070905@uoguelph.ca> <4470CC2E.2060006@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: > Peter wrote: >> >> On Sun, 21 May 2006, Tom Watts wrote: >> >>> This is the first I've heard of gnash and I really hate flash on Linux; >>> it's outdated and it won't play sound if anything else is making noise. >>> So, I downloaded, compiled and install gnash. It had the same problems >>> (no sound at all) and sometimes didn't play movies in webpages at all. Is >>> this just the current state of the software or is anyone using this as a >>> replacement for flash? >> >> Flash works fine, upgrade your sound system to alsa and it will play >> umpteen sources at once. >> >> Peter > > I've been using ALSA for a while now. Perhaps I need to tell flash to use > ALSA? I am not sure. I think that you need to make sure that all the modules that belonged to the sound system you ran before alsa went away/are not loaded. I had similar problems (not with flash) and switched from oss to alsa, and ever since I can use as many open sound devices as I like. E.g. xmms, xine, two flash instances and the gong that sounds on certain events also makes it. Alsa ensures at least 4 digital channels (/dev/dsps) can work in parallel. Maybe deleting flash and reinstalling it will fix it. Basically with alsa you can open 2 instances of xmms (f.ex.) and both will play (cacophony results but that's the point). If this wors then maybe there is a wrong symbolic link in /dev/ for dsp??. Just guessing here. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 00:05:55 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 20:05:55 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:37:40AM -0400, Paul King wrote > The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the > conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less > (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted > documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). Here's an idea of mine for a text game... http://www.waltdnes.org/annoyances/infosucks.html Any programmers around want to take on that challenge? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 00:24:03 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 20:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060522000555.GA12863-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:37:40AM -0400, Paul King wrote > >> The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the >> conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less >> (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted >> documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). > > Here's an idea of mine for a text game... > http://www.waltdnes.org/annoyances/infosucks.html . What is "info" you ask? Some geeks at GNU are obviously annoyed . at the fact that the average Joe can now easily get information . about GNU apps using "man" with "less" as the pager. They've . resorted to the old Bill Gates trick; create a "new and . improved" and totally incompatable format and system that . renders all your habits and knowledge about man pages useless. . No, it's not text-only HTML readable by links/linx/lynx. That . would be a standard existing format. We can't have that, can we. . Instead, it's a totally new format and a totally new algorithm. No, it's not a new format; it predates HTML. Not as good, perhaps, but not newer. > Any programmers around want to take on that challenge? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 11:00:02 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 14:00:02 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question Message-ID: This is not the real forum to ask on but maybe someone knows ... Html frames do not have real 'automatic sizing' capability in the sense implied by the TCL place manager. Is this somehow planned or what ? Please do not answer DHTML, because I will run screaming. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 11:53:24 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 12:53:24 +0100 (BST) Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> References: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1687.66.163.0.56.1148298804.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Hi I can't really diagnose problems without seeing the unit, however i have a brother dcp310cn network printer, and followed the instructions and still had to create a entry for the device in the lpd subdirectory structure (I wrote a quick note on what I did and stuck it at www.zleap.net) - its under Linux - brother. It did take a while but I think I can probably do this with cups, it uses port 9100 and I think 931. looking at the errors would doing something like apt-get -f install (or what ever the option is) fix things, or perhaps just doing an apt-get ( i seek comments on this solution from others) I use kanotix which is based on debian sid so the procedure can't be that different, Hope this helps. also if your using something like guarddog, you need to see if the firewall is allowing the two ports that cups and the printer use (I got hit by that one and discovered that the firewall was blocking the printer). paul sutton (currently at global village) > Hello > > I am still struggling in my on-going battle to get my printer to work. >>From what I have been able to make out from the Debian (sarge) docs, > CUPS appears to be the only server to understand a networked printer. > Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I would gladly use the BSD-style > lprng program (which I understand better), but I am unsure about how to > enter a URI for my printer there. > > The printer is standalone on my home network. It is wireless. I am able > to telnet to it, stick my nose in here and there, and print a test page > from the telnet session, which gives me all kinds of stats on the > printer and its settings. I figure if I can do that, printing documents > can't be too far-fetched an ambition with this printer. > > This is a printer in the Brother MFC Inkjet/Scanner/Fax/Photocopier > vein. It lists my network router as the primary DNS, IP gateway, and > DHCP server. Under windows it works fine. > > So, I configured CUPS for a networked printer. I su'ed to root, and did > a cupsdconf. I redirected the error messages to a file, and here is what > I got - a long string of error messages and warnings. Most of the > warnings seemed to apply to various default Debian settings. Other > errors appeared to apply to the fact that I issued the command from > GNOME, and cupsdconf appears to be compiled under KDE. > > After leaving cupsdconf, the size of the /var/run/cupsd/printcap file is > ZERO (0). > > Paul King > > Below this line are cupsdconf error messages ONLY. If you are not > interested, you can stop reading now. > > =============>8 snip >8===================================== > Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the > authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based > authentication failed > QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used > QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used > Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the > authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based > authentication failed > QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used > QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used > kbuildsycoca running... > Reusing existing ksycoca > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: Property 'X-KDE-Weight' is defined multiple times > (KOfficeFilter) > kio (KService*): WARNING: The desktop entry file > Utilities/kfilereplacepart.desktop has Type=Service but is located under > "apps" instead of "services" > kio (KService*): WARNING: Invalid Service : > Utilities/kfilereplacepart.desktop > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: > '/usr/share/applications/themus-theme-applier.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gnome-theme-installed' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/sodipodi.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg+xml,image/svg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-javascript' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-python' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/bluefish-project' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/javascript' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-cgi' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/bluefish.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_ooo.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_ooo.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-asp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-javascript' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/javascript' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-screem' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-screem-tag-tree' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/svg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/screem.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'klinkstatus_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-extension-mp4' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/dv' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/msvideo' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-anim' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-avi' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-nsv' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-flc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-fli' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-matroska' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-m4a' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asx' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-wax' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-real-audio' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'misc/ultravox' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-aiff' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-au' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-wav' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-acm' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/vnd.rn-realpix' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/totem.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kvoctrain.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-kvtml' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-eim' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/mathml' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/tab-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-authors' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-copying' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-credits' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-csh' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dcl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dsl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-dtd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-emacs-lisp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-fortran' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-gtkrc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-idl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-install' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-python' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-readme' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-scheme' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-setext' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sh' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-sql' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kpovmodeler.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPovModeler/Document' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kivioconnectortool.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645math.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645math.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/math.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/math.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/jpg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-gray' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-icb' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xbitmap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/eog.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xpixmap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/planner.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-planner' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645impress.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.ms-powerpoint' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645impress.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.impress' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/impress.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.impress' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xcf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-eim' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Graphics/showimg.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kcertpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/binary-certificate' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/g3fax' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/jpg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-compressed-xcf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-fits' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-gray' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sgi' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sun-raster' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-tga' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xbitmap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xcf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xpixmap' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gimp-2.2.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xwindowdump' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/kde/kmid.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/midi' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/wav' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp3' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/XMMS.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/web.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/web.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer.global' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/rtf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/abiword' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/abiword.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.calc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.chart' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.math' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.lotus-1-2-3' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/calc.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.calc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/calc.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.chart' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kxsldbg_part.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gfloppy.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'x-device/floppy' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/dia.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-dia-diagram' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'katepart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-fortran' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kiviotexttool.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/excel' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-excel' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-ms-excel' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-msexcel' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-xls' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/xls' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-dos_ms_excel' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'zz-application/zz-winassoc-xls' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/csv' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/tab-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/comma-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/csv' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/spreadsheet' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/tab-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-comma-separated-values' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.lotus-1-2-3' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-123' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/x-applix-spreadsheet' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-mps' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-oleo' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-planperfect' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-sc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-sylk' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-xbase' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gnome-stones.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gnome-stones' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'knotify.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'KNotify' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp3' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mpg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/wav' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-wav' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-acm' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-pcm' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/vnd.rn-realtext' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.rn-realmedia-secure' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.rn-realaudio-secure' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-realaudio-secure' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/vnd.rn-realvideo-secure' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-realaudio' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.rn-realmedia-vbr' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/vnd.rn-realpix' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.rn-realsystem-rmj' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.rn-realsystem-rmx' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-aac' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/m4a' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-m4a' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp2' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/mp1' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mp1' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/rn-mpeg' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/scpls' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-smil' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/streamingmedia' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-streamingmedia' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/sdp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-au' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/aiff' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-aiff' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/3gpp' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/3gpp-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-wb' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/amr-wb-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-wb' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'audio/x-rn-3gpp-amr-wb-encrypted' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/3gpp2' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/helix-player.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-3gpp2' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kivioselecttool.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/x-bzip-compressed-tar' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-compressed-tar' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-gtar' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-lhz' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-rar-compressed' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-zip-compressed' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/zip' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'multipart/x-zip' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-java-archive' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/file-roller.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-cd-image' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645draw.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.draw' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/draw.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.draw' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kiviozoomtool.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'KPlugin' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Editors/texmacs.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/texmacs' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'Editors/texmacs.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'text/english' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'showimgpart.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-krl' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-doc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype > 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.wordperfect' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/rtf' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/ooo645writer.desktop' > specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/richtext' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.sun.xml.writer.global' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org1.1/writer.desktop' specifies > undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-doc' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kword' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kpresenter' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kspread' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.karbon' > kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kfile_koffice.desktop' specifies undefined > mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.kde.kontour' > cupsGetConf: unauthorized... > Mutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy > ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 16444, errno = 2 > > =============>8 snip >8=======end of error messages=========== > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jh.tech-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 12:00:59 2006 From: jh.tech-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (tech) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 08:00:59 -0400 Subject: html frames question References: Message-ID: <001201c67d97$6bf21a00$2700a8c0@ipaq> Hi Peter, I think we traded in frames for css long ago. In answer to your question, frames are spec'd in pixels or % so depending on your need the % might handle your needs if they are straightforward. From http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/frames.html Attribute definitions rows = multi-length-list [CN] This attribute specifies the layout of horizontal frames. It is a comma-separated list of pixels, percentages, and relative lengths. The default value is 100%, meaning one row. cols = etc... I know zip about TCL but just checked out a random example "Sets up vertical or horizontal panes. Two frames, f1 and 36 # f2, are placed inside another frame". ... That looks like html frames to me. However, after a quick glance around the web (is that possible?) I'd say that fans of frams are on the run ... screaming. best, john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: [TLUG]: html frames question > > This is not the real forum to ask on but maybe someone knows ... > > Html frames do not have real 'automatic sizing' capability in the sense > implied by the TCL place manager. Is this somehow planned or what ? > Please do not answer DHTML, because I will run screaming. > > thanks, > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 12:13:47 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 13:13:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: internet cafes Message-ID: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Hi\ I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. thanks for any recomendations / help I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that far. Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and hence a meeting date, I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some point as tickets are about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top tier with probably a small view but hey I don't mind that). Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 12:20:41 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 13:20:41 +0100 (BST) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> What about css, if I understand your question when a user changes the size of the browser window, the text adjusts to suit, my site does this pretty well, it's at www.zleap.net, you should be able to view the source code and also the code for the css (unless the permissions have been changed), is this what you are looking for? Paul > > This is not the real forum to ask on but maybe someone knows ... > > Html frames do not have real 'automatic sizing' capability in the sense > implied by the TCL place manager. Is this somehow planned or what ? > Please do not answer DHTML, because I will run screaming. > > thanks, > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 13:24:20 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 16:24:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: <001201c67d97$6bf21a00$2700a8c0@ipaq> References: <001201c67d97$6bf21a00$2700a8c0@ipaq> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006, tech wrote: > Hi Peter, > I think we traded in frames for css long ago. > In answer to your question, frames are spec'd in pixels or % so depending on > your need the % might handle your needs if they are straightforward. From > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/frames.html > Attribute definitions > rows = multi-length-list [CN] > This attribute specifies the layout of horizontal frames. It is a > comma-separated list of pixels, percentages, and relative lengths. The > default value is 100%, meaning one row. > cols = etc... > I know zip about TCL but just checked out a random example "Sets up vertical > or horizontal panes. Two frames, f1 and 36 # f2, are placed > inside another frame". ... That looks like html frames to me. However, > after a quick glance around the web (is that possible?) I'd say that fans of > frams are on the run ... screaming. > best, > john Thanks for answering that. My problem is that I have a toolbar-like thing that loads content into a frame on the page. This turns out to be painful. I will actually have to specify everything (and I mean everything) in pixels in CSS and then I will know the size of the bar so I can tell the dumb frame positioner. Gack. The TCL trick is like: --snip-- #!/usr/bin/wish button .b1 -text "Yada" button .b2 -text "Bada" button .b3 -text "Badoo" button .bQuit -text "Quit Right Now" \ -background "#ffa0a0" -command {exit 0} ## the trick is -fill x pack .b1 .b2 .b3 .bQuit -in . -side top -fill x update after 1000 .b1 configure -font {Helvetica -14 bold} update after 1000 .b1 configure -font {Helvetica -18 bold} update after 1000 .b1 configure -font {Helvetica -24 bold} --snap-- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 13:29:39 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 16:29:39 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: <001201c67d97$6bf21a00$2700a8c0@ipaq> References: <001201c67d97$6bf21a00$2700a8c0@ipaq> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006, tech wrote: > I know zip about TCL but just checked out a random example "Sets up vertical > or horizontal panes. Two frames, f1 and 36 # f2, are placed > inside another frame". ... That looks like html frames to me. However, > after a quick glance around the web (is that possible?) I'd say that fans of > frams are on the run ... screaming. Actually the example I gave used buttons but each could have been a frame containing other stuff. It would take me 4 times less time to do what I need to do in TCL than in html/javascript/css and it would work anywhere, even on ancient workstations that cannot run a modern browser. TCL is *terse*. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 13:38:34 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 16:38:34 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006 zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > What about css, if I understand your question when a user changes the size > of the browser window, the text adjusts to suit, > > my site does this pretty well, it's at www.zleap.net, you should be able > to view the source code and also the code for the css (unless the > permissions have been changed), > > is this what you are looking for? No, thanks. I need to load content into what is your static 'right' frame. For your case, assume your link for 'Skills' would be like ... Anyway you gave me an idea I will check out. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 13:50:13 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 16:50:13 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006 zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > What about css, if I understand your question when a user changes the size > of the browser window, the text adjusts to suit, > > my site does this pretty well, it's at www.zleap.net, you should be able > to view the source code and also the code for the css (unless the > permissions have been changed), > > is this what you are looking for? Speaking of which, in your site, if I hover over the line 'Brother DCP310' which is the longest, the line expands and contracts cyclically (the writing moves out from under the pointer when it expands, then it contracts, etc). This causes the bottom of the selector to also move up and down. If this selector would be a frame pane then the frame would constrain it. This is my problem. I cannot tell the frame what size it will be without describing ALL distances (including fonts etc) in pixels. That would be a bear. So far the only way I can solve it is to specify and iframe and hope for the best if the contents are too small to fill it. html sucks. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 14:02:41 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 10:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006, Peter wrote: > > On Mon, 22 May 2006 zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> What about css, if I understand your question when a user changes the size >> of the browser window, the text adjusts to suit, >> >> my site does this pretty well, it's at www.zleap.net, you should be able >> to view the source code and also the code for the css (unless the >> permissions have been changed), >> >> is this what you are looking for? > > Speaking of which, in your site, if I hover over the line 'Brother DCP310' > which is the longest, the line expands and contracts cyclically (the writing > moves out from under the pointer when it expands, then it contracts, etc). That's caused by the addition of a border in the stylesheet: a:hover { color: #00f; background: fff; border: 2px solid #fff; } > This causes the bottom of the selector to also move up and down. If this > selector would be a frame pane then the frame would constrain it. This is my > problem. I cannot tell the frame what size it will be without describing ALL > distances (including fonts etc) in pixels. That would be a bear. Specifiying absolute sizes is the most frequent cause of broken HTML pages. > So far the only way I can solve it is to specify and iframe and hope for the > best if the contents are too small to fill it. html sucks. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 15:22:27 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <20060522152227.4671.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi\ > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a > distance from where I am > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater > toronto area, I am > staying at the global village backpackers on the > intersection of spadnia, > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for > 1/2 hour, so looking > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can > offer internet / > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff > out. e.g my resume for > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory > stick. > > thanks for any recomendations / help A few suggestions, have a look at the sites run by the Wireless Toronto folks: http://wirelesstoronto.ca/wt_hotspot_locations.php They have deals going with a number of local cafes, pubs, etc.. The Wi-Fi is free, just be ready to buy coffee / food / beer / etc.. Also, SOME McDonalds offer 45 minutes of Wi-Fi with any food order of over $3. Unfortunately I can not find a definitive list of Canadian McDonalds that do offer Wi-Fi. I can tell you (because I tried them) this McDonalds does offer Wi-Fi: YONGE & TEMPERANCE 123 YONGE ST TORONTO, ON M5C 1W4 (416) 862-8899 When you place your food order ask for a wireless coupon which will have configuration info. and a one time user name/password. Problem with all the above is as far as I know, no printers... Still, there is FedEx Kinko's for that (at prices will hurt...): http://www.kinkos.ca/companyinfo/locations.html > I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that > far. > > > Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and > hence a meeting date, > I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some > point as tickets are > about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top > tier with probably a > small view but hey I don't mind that). > > Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 15:49:55 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:49:55 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> References: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1f13df280605220849y53b30a25x427a4a3d271fd452@mail.gmail.com> Hello. I apologize in advance that this is, well, a crippled answer. Yes, you can do networked printers with lpr-ng. No, I can't tell you how. I'm very sure you can because I ran eight networked HP workgroup printers off a linux file and print server for several years using lpr-ng. I can't tell you how because I left that job a few months back and hadn't messed with the setup in so long I've forgotten the details. I _think_ all that's involved is setting up a printer profile with an IP address, a port (usually 9100), and the normal gook about cover pages etc. The HOWTO I used for setup is at http://www.lprng.com/LPRng-HOWTO-Multipart/index.htm . A bit of opinion to go with my not-too-solid advice ... Linux printer configuration SUCKS. Always has, looks like it's going to continue to do so for several years more. Having said that, I'd suggest you struggle with CUPS a while longer: it would seem (based on faint evidence, read up yourself) that most distros are going to CUPS and lpr-ng may die entirely as a project in the foreseeable future. On 5/21/06, Paul King wrote: > I am still struggling in my on-going battle to get my printer to work. > >From what I have been able to make out from the Debian (sarge) docs, > CUPS appears to be the only server to understand a networked printer. > Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I would gladly use the BSD-style > lprng program (which I understand better), but I am unsure about how to > enter a URI for my printer there. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 15:58:19 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 18:58:19 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 22 May 2006, Peter wrote: > >> Speaking of which, in your site, if I hover over the line 'Brother DCP310' >> which is the longest, the line expands and contracts cyclically (the >> writing moves out from under the pointer when it expands, then it >> contracts, etc). > > That's caused by the addition of a border in the stylesheet: > > a:hover { > color: #00f; > background: fff; > border: 2px solid #fff; > } > >> This causes the bottom of the selector to also move up and down. If this >> selector would be a frame pane then the frame would constrain it. This is >> my problem. I cannot tell the frame what size it will be without describing >> ALL distances (including fonts etc) in pixels. That would be a bear. > > Specifiying absolute sizes is the most frequent cause of broken > HTML pages. That's why I am trying to avoid it. With a dodgy combination of frame size given in pixels, percent and *, and a fairly strict definition of the elements in my pane, I get reasonable results in *either* Firefox *or* Opera, but not both. Maybe I will code a redirect based on browser id and serve different framesets by browser. The damning thing is that after I set it up and manage to render it it behaves normally and I can resize the page and it stays the way it should. E.g. in TCL I can tell a frame contents to be sticky to the frame from the inside and then let the packer figure the frame size, as long as there is at least one 'auto' element in the frameset that can accomodate the stretch. In HTML I see no way of doing that. Apparently it is possible to set the frame size using Javascript after loading it. So I could try to *measure* the height and width of the outermost element in my frame after it is loaded, and resize the frame to fit. Of course this sucks. Why can't the broswser do it for me ? The way I see it, if a frameset is specified with, say, *,*,* then the browser should render the contents into each, measure the bounding box when finished, and resize the frame to suit, for each frame. Why must I do this ? Or, provide a magic 'size' for frames called bb (for bounding box). Or follow the good example set by tk and use 'sticky' attributes like 'nsew' to tell the browser which sides of the frame are to fit the bb of the contents, and 'fill' attributes like 'xy' to tell it to stretch the contents. I think that the current placement algorythm for frames in html is braindead. I can understand why people moved away from frames. What I do not understand, is why the already 10 year old mechanism implemented in the tk managers was not implemented ?! It was free ?!!! In 1990 even !!! Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 17:19:00 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 13:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: May 23rd. NewTLUG meeting: OpenOffice - tips and tricks plus Digital Signing Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues May 23rd., at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. Date: Tues May 23rd. Time: 7 - 10pm Presenter: Gerry Singleton Gerry created and published the OpenOffice.org User Guide - the one that comes packaged with Open Office. He is Co-Lead of the current team that contributes documentation to the project. Gerry's Professional Affiliations include: Usenix/SAGE, Association of Professional Computer Consultants of Canada, Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, IEEE Computer Society,and IEEE Communications Society, Association of Computing Machinery, SIGDP and SIGC MM. Topic: OpenOffice - tips and tricks plus howtos and discussions. Gerry intends to talk about the following in more or less a Q/A session: 1. Styles -- paragraph, character, and page 2. Master documents - how to more or less. He will bring the user guide as a demonstration. 3. Digital Signing including how to get free certs. We may also look at a couple of spellcheck issues in OOo. Location: Room S2148 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca at York note that this room is different from the usual one. Building number 40 on the map: http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. (note that this room is different from the usual one) Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 19:40:20 2006 From: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 15:40:20 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <002f01c67dd7$903c7640$6602a8c0@xp64> There is a bubble tea place on the south side of College St. just east of Bathurst that has free Wi-fi - tea is a little expensive. Best, Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sent: May 22, 2006 8:14 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: internet cafes Hi\ I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. thanks for any recomendations / help I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that far. Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and hence a meeting date, I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some point as tickets are about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top tier with probably a small view but hey I don't mind that). Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon May 22 19:47:30 2006 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 15:47:30 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <20060522194730.GE35312@shell.vex.net> On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 01:13:47PM +0100, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi\ > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am > staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. > There are two places within walking distance that I've last used a couple of months ago, so YMMV. Croissant Tree at 111 Peter offers 4 Internet-connected Linux desktops (KVM access only) and a printer. I imagine that if you were to ask kindly when they weren't busy (it seems that half the building takes their morning break at 10am!) that they may accomodate USB access. Note that they are closed weekends and evenings. Less useful (assuming that you don't have a card) would be the Metro Toronto Public Library branch at 55 John. There is at least one 15-minute express Internet access computer there. See also: http://www.tpl.toronto.on.ca/res_faq_index.jsp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 00:39:16 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 20:39:16 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605221739k3576834x2a6097c41b42f83a@mail.gmail.com> $2 for half an hour! That seems like a good rate, considering what you pay at the majority of the coffee shops that charge $6 or $7 per hour. All these Second Cups and Starbucks' are part of this hotspot alliance sponsored by all the mobile phone carriers. As a self-employed guy working out of the basement, I find these great places to go get some work done and regain human contact. But the price for their WLAN access, while not unaffordable, certainly rankles me from a philosophical perspective. I actually found early on that if you paid for the first hour and left hte computer on, you could stay connected indefinitely. But this past week I did get bumped after an hour... so I left. Does anyone know about the arrangement these coffee shops have with this system? Are they actually making any money out of it? I.E., would there be a financial benefit for them to use an alternative system and give it away for free? I'm pretty sure I could do it for them, but I would love to know the business argument before walking into such a place. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/22/06, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi\ > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am > staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. > > thanks for any recomendations / help > > I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that far. > > > Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and hence a meeting date, > I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some point as tickets are > about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top tier with probably a > small view but hey I don't mind that). > > Paul > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From papking-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 01:12:46 2006 From: papking-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 01:12:46 +0000 GMT Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20605221739k3576834x2a6097c41b42f83a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <4386c5b20605221739k3576834x2a6097c41b42f83a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <749066398-1148346771-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-18720-@engine30> Where is the linux cafe located? -----Original Message----- From: "Aaron Vegh" Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 20:39:16 To:tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: internet cafes $2 for half an hour! That seems like a good rate, considering what you pay at the majority of the coffee shops that charge $6 or $7 per hour. All these Second Cups and Starbucks' are part of this hotspot alliance sponsored by all the mobile phone carriers. As a self-employed guy working out of the basement, I find these great places to go get some work done and regain human contact. But the price for their WLAN access, while not unaffordable, certainly rankles me from a philosophical perspective. I actually found early on that if you paid for the first hour and left hte computer on, you could stay connected indefinitely. But this past week I did get bumped after an hour... so I left. Does anyone know about the arrangement these coffee shops have with this system? Are they actually making any money out of it? I.E., would there be a financial benefit for them to use an alternative system and give it away for free? I'm pretty sure I could do it for them, but I would love to know the business argument before walking into such a place. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/22/06, zleap at zleap.net wrote: > Hi\ > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am > staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. > > thanks for any recomendations / help > > I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that far. > > > Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and hence a meeting date, > I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some point as tickets are > about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top tier with probably a > small view but hey I don't mind that). > > Paul > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 01:30:41 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:30:41 -0400 Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 04:38:34PM +0300, Peter wrote > No, thanks. I need to load content into what is your static 'right' > frame. For your case, assume your link for 'Skills' would be like href="skills.html" target="_right">... Go to http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html and scroll down the page. What do you think? Oh yeah... no javascript. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 01:53:59 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:53:59 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <749066398-1148346771-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-18720-@engine30> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <4386c5b20605221739k3576834x2a6097c41b42f83a@mail.gmail.com> <749066398-1148346771-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-18720-@engine30> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605221853v6426a5b9q8dfd6e4230fa5d4c@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/06, Paul Apking wrote: > Where is the linux cafe located? For directions, "linuxcaffe, Toronto" in Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=linuxcaffe,+Toronto Online: http://linuxcaffe.com/ -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 06:47:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:47:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: <20060523013041.GA23106-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 04:38:34PM +0300, Peter wrote > >> No, thanks. I need to load content into what is your static 'right' >> frame. For your case, assume your link for 'Skills' would be like > href="skills.html" target="_right">... > > Go to http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html and > scroll down the page. What do you think? Oh yeah... no javascript. Your page illustrates my problem perfectly ... in FF the buttons are just a tiny little bit larger than the frame they sit in ... but in Opera they are 1 pixel smaller, so there is a white border inside the frame ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 07:37:29 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 03:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 May 2006, Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 04:38:34PM +0300, Peter wrote >> >> > No, thanks. I need to load content into what is your static 'right' >> > frame. For your case, assume your link for 'Skills' would be like > > href="skills.html" target="_right">... >> >> Go to http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html and >> scroll down the page. What do you think? Oh yeah... no javascript. > > Your page illustrates my problem perfectly ... in FF the buttons are just a > tiny little bit larger than the frame they sit in ... but in Opera they are 1 > pixel smaller, so there is a white border inside the frame ... The problem is that there are too many nested box elements. Get rid of the table; it's not necessary. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 07:53:09 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:53:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames question In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 23 May 2006, Peter wrote: >> >> Your page illustrates my problem perfectly ... in FF the buttons are just a >> tiny little bit larger than the frame they sit in ... but in Opera they are >> 1 pixel smaller, so there is a white border inside the frame ... > > The problem is that there are too many nested box elements. Get rid > of the table; it's not necessary. But in my case I can't. It's like this: Either I rely on a frame defined in % or as absolute. If it's % then I have to specify everything inside in %, and I can't. How do you specify a font size in % ? So then I specify in px, and everything inside in px, and it works, but eventually something gums up the works and there will be a border or something like that throwing a wrench into the works. Catch22. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 08:01:23 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 04:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: html frames questiony In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 May 2006, Peter wrote: > > On Tue, 23 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 May 2006, Peter wrote: >> > >> > Your page illustrates my problem perfectly ... in FF the buttons are >> > just a tiny little bit larger than the frame they sit in ... but in >> > Opera they are 1 pixel smaller, so there is a white border inside the >> > frame ... >> >> The problem is that there are too many nested box elements. Get rid >> of the table; it's not necessary. > > But in my case I can't. It's like this: Either I rely on a frame defined in % > or as absolute. If it's % then I have to specify everything inside in %, and > I can't. How do you specify a font size in % ? So then I specify in px, and > everything inside in px, and it works, but eventually something gums up the > works and there will be a border or something like that throwing a wrench > into the works. Catch22. Why do you need to specify any sizes? (What's the URL?) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 10:32:09 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 06:32:09 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <749066398-1148346771-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-18720-@engine30> References: <4386c5b20605221739k3576834x2a6097c41b42f83a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4472AC69.32027.74E419B@pking123.sympatico.ca> On 23 May 2006 at 1:12, Paul Apking spaketh these wourdes: > $2 for half an hour! That seems like a good rate, considering what you > pay at the majority of the coffee shops that charge $6 or $7 per hour. I think that is an obscene rate. There is a Starbucks here in Oakville (Lakeshore Road) that charges that over here for laptop access (they don't provide one), and I refuse to pay it. Across the way in the square, there is a restaurant that also offers wireless laptop access (bring your own also), but it is FREE, presumably so long as you are prepared to buy some grub. The place is a tucked-away eatery called "Crumz", a place I haven't yet been to. It is also in Oakville on Lakeshore Road in the square (same one as The Green Bean (yet another coffee shop (no internet)) and L'Atelier Grigorian (an alternative record store -- if you consider Jazz, Classical, and show tunes to be "alternative" -- still an interesting place). Their web site lists their address as "94 George St., Unit 2". "George Street" is actually the walkway of the public square that passes in front of the cafe. It is not marked as such (I don't recall), but the streets (which cars drive on) that extend north and south from both ends of the square are "George Street." > > All these Second Cups and Starbucks' are part of this hotspot alliance > sponsored by all the mobile phone carriers. As a self-employed guy > working out of the basement, I find these great places to go get some > work done and regain human contact. But the price for their WLAN > access, while not unaffordable, certainly rankles me from a > philosophical perspective. I actually found early on that if you paid > for the first hour and left hte computer on, you could stay connected > indefinitely. But this past week I did get bumped after an hour... so > I left. > > Does anyone know about the arrangement these coffee shops have with > this system? Are they actually making any money out of it? I.E., would > there be a financial benefit for them to use an alternative system and > give it away for free? I don't know, but there are Starbucks places in Old Montreal which I have been to that offered free wireless Internet access. They are very busy coffee shops, with lots of adults and teens there with their laptops. They can make money off of it if they think they can do a brisk business with it. The Starbucks over here, unfortunately, even with the other cafes, don't seem to have that worry. > I'm pretty sure I could do it for them, but I > would love to know the business argument before walking into such a > place. > > Cheers, > Aaron. > > On 5/22/06, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hi\ > > > > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am > > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am > > staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, > > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking > > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / > > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for > > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. > > > > thanks for any recomendations / help > > > > I will still use linuxcaffe if I am heading up that far. > > > > > > Is this tuesday coming the last one of the month and hence a meeting date, > > I was looking at catching a blue jays game at some point as tickets are > > about $2 each which is pretty cool (ok it's the top tier with probably a > > small view but hey I don't mind that). > > > > Paul > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 12:44:53 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:44:53 +0300 (IDT) Subject: html frames questiony In-Reply-To: References: <1820.66.163.0.56.1148300441.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060523013041.GA23106@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 May 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Why do you need to specify any sizes? (What's the URL?) It's a kind of toolbar I am making. It is not public (yet?). The toolbar is to be in the top frame and the bottom frame is controlled by it (more or less). The problem is that the toolbar is crafted in a certain way and it appears different in different browsers. There is nothing fancy, just a horizontal table, but the border/height/padding interpretation in various browsers causes it to have a slightly different height. Thus it either has an 'empty' frame around it or it is clipped, depending on what one renders it with. The problem is caused by the impossibility (?) to control the hieght of a frame contents exactly without breaking something (f.ex. font size). So far the only solution I fonund is to specify everything in pixels (for a given screen resolution) and set the frame size accordingly (in pixels). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 16:36:43 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:43 -0400 Subject: make and change into a directory In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605192013k53a7747ck264980c23c8ef947@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280605192054m226f144ev1fe22e38f71195a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060523163643.GA21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 19, 2006 at 11:54:03PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Good question! Fun for the whole family ... > > $ alias a2e="echo -$1-; echo _$1_" > $ a2e blah > -- > __ blah > > Holy crap, what happened there? If anyone can answer that, I'd really > like to know, because that's seriously bizarre. Hmm - in light of the > next paragraph ... perhaps what happens is that it ignores the > argument entirely, echoes the dashes and underscores, and then drops > the argument just because it was hanging around? Weird. Well: a2e blaha Expand alias -> echo -$1-; echo _$1_ blah Expand variables -> echo --; echo __ blah Execute commands -> --\n__ blah\n > In the bash man page it says "There is no mechanism for using > arguments in the replacement text. If arguments are needed, a > shell function should be used (see FUNCTIONS below)." I took the > hint: > > $ function f2e () { echo -$1-; echo _$1_; } > $ f2e blah > -blah- > _blah_ > > Success? "function mcd () { mkdir $1; cd $1; }" does appear to work > as requested. Please note that the trailing semicolon is required. The function makes sense since it takes arguments, which the alias does not. -- Len Sorensen RuggedCom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 16:42:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:42:20 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060523164220.GB21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:37:40AM -0400, Paul King wrote: > This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has > adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. Linux most certainly has not. I believe the linux kernel uses docbook, generating html and others from that. GNU uses info, no one else really seems to be crazy enough to do that. man pages are used by many things (just not GNU). > Am I the only one who finds info unwieldy and difficult to navigate > through? I use the word "difficult" loosely. If all I want is the > manpage for a command, I shouldn't have to navigate through anything > except that single document. The viewer for info is unusable (pretty much). Unless you use emacs (guess who wrote that) to view it, it is a real pain. > The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the > conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less > (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted > documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). > > A new user would now have to know both less and whatever the thing is > that is used to navigate through the info nodes. I am not interested in > navigating through nodes; I just want information on a command. > > What is the word on man? Is that being phased out? Do we now have to > store two formats of the same documentation? I noticed that doing an > "info ls" gives me the manpage inside of info. Are they similar formats? Many people have started trying to turn the info pages into useful man pages, because they too hate info. Debian actually has a policy stating all commands should have man pages, and they have written man pages covering at least the basics for many of the gnu commands. GNU does maintain man pages for some things (like ls from coreutils) with the disclaimer at the bottom indicating the full documentation is found in info. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 17:13:57 2006 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:13:57 -0400 Subject: colocation for servers Message-ID: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> HELO, I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice connection to that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the basement; this is for a corporate site.) Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to share? Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If there's interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. regards, emma -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 18:00:39 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 19:00:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: internet cafes - thanks In-Reply-To: <20060522152227.4671.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060522152227.4671.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3635.66.163.0.56.1148407239.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Thanks for all the ideas, looks like I need to save up for a laptop, got to find a job first. anyway, it seems printing is an issue but i guess it's easier to provide wireless access, than trying to also provide wireless printing, which I guess can be more expensive, due to extra configuration. I guess the way round that would be to have a pdf export feature, (or use the one thats built in to Linux systems via oo.org and other apps. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 18:29:10 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 23 May 2006 14:29:10 -0400 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: <20060523171354.GA13572-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: Emma Jane Hogbin writes: > HELO, EHLO, > I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the > box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice connection to > that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the > basement; this is for a corporate site.) > > Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to share? > Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If there's > interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. We've had good experiences with mountain cable coop out of Hamilton. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 18:30:08 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:30:08 -0400 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <20060523183008.GA6829@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have not had a chance to go war-walking, but I suspect that there are a large number of unsecured access points in the downtown core - King and Bay-ish. My recollection is that the Scotia Plaza (north-east corner of King and Bay) has free wireless access in the food court. Many conveniences are provided for the bigwigs of the financial district. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 18:34:33 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:34:33 -0400 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: <20060523171354.GA13572-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: On 23-May-06, at 1:13 PM, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > HELO, > > I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the > box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice > connection to > that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the > basement; this is for a corporate site.) Nobody can guarantee 5 9's uptime. Many advertise it but ask them what happens when the power goes out for a day, and they can't buy diesel anywhere. AFAIR, that's 8 minutes per year. But I can recommend my personal hosting preference www.sentex.net > > Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to > share? > Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If > there's > interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. > > > regards, > emma > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 18:49:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:49:08 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> References: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060523184908.GC21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 01:52:40PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > I am still struggling in my on-going battle to get my printer to work. > >From what I have been able to make out from the Debian (sarge) docs, > CUPS appears to be the only server to understand a networked printer. > Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I would gladly use the BSD-style > lprng program (which I understand better), but I am unsure about how to > enter a URI for my printer there. > > The printer is standalone on my home network. It is wireless. I am able > to telnet to it, stick my nose in here and there, and print a test page > from the telnet session, which gives me all kinds of stats on the > printer and its settings. I figure if I can do that, printing documents > can't be too far-fetched an ambition with this printer. > > This is a printer in the Brother MFC Inkjet/Scanner/Fax/Photocopier > vein. It lists my network router as the primary DNS, IP gateway, and > DHCP server. Under windows it works fine. > > So, I configured CUPS for a networked printer. I su'ed to root, and did > a cupsdconf. I redirected the error messages to a file, and here is what > I got - a long string of error messages and warnings. Most of the > warnings seemed to apply to various default Debian settings. Other > errors appeared to apply to the fact that I issued the command from > GNOME, and cupsdconf appears to be compiled under KDE. Well I configure printers using cups by pointing my browser at http://localhost:631/admin and loging in as root. For network printers it is usually a setting of jetdirect on URI: socket://ip:9100 Works for me on HP printers, and brother likes emulating HP for many things, so it might work. I have never heard of cupsdconf, but based on the output you had, it looks like a KDE invention, and not a cupsys component. Use the cups interface to configure cups. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jweissig-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 20:00:26 2006 From: jweissig-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Justin Weissig) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:00:26 -0700 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: <20060523171354.GA13572-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <217ddce00605231300l7825fd28g948c6e486f0fadf7@mail.gmail.com> I'd suggest looking at the major telcos in your area and see if they offer co-location services. These tier 1 providers are the way to go and they have a vested interested in making sure the network has 100% connectivity. Although no one can grantee uptime it's much more likely that you will have a better experience with these guys. You should ask about rack space, connection type, and bandwidth charges. You should expect to pay around $200 - $300 for a simple 1U server and a capped 10Mbp/s connection. You can probably get yourself a tour also - they love to show off their facilities. Sometimes a cheaper option would be to simple rent hardware from someone like serverbeach.com for $199/month - they look after the server failures and network (although you maintain the server) and you can focus on the site. - Justin On 5/23/06, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > HELO, > > I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the > box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice connection to > that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the > basement; this is for a corporate site.) > > Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to share? > Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If there's > interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. > > > regards, > emma > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 20:09:25 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:09:25 -0400 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: <217ddce00605231300l7825fd28g948c6e486f0fadf7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> <217ddce00605231300l7825fd28g948c6e486f0fadf7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <132AE169-23B8-4EFF-A854-627B0E0E27F4@visibleassets.com> Actually, I'd beg to differ. While the big guys have adequate bandwidth and reliability. Getting to someone who knows what they are talking about is an arduous process. Sentex and many others can offer you co-location on Front St. which is a tier 1 colocation facility. Smaller guys will have less restrictions, for instance Sentex doesn't charge more or less for 1U vs 4U. Dave On 23-May-06, at 4:00 PM, Justin Weissig wrote: > I'd suggest looking at the major telcos in your area and see if they > offer co-location services. These tier 1 providers are the way to go > and they have a vested interested in making sure the network has 100% > connectivity. > > Although no one can grantee uptime it's much more likely that you will > have a better experience with these guys. > > You should ask about rack space, connection type, and bandwidth > charges. You should expect to pay around $200 - $300 for a simple 1U > server and a capped 10Mbp/s connection. You can probably get yourself > a tour also - they love to show off their facilities. > > Sometimes a cheaper option would be to simple rent hardware from > someone like serverbeach.com for $199/month - they look after the > server failures and network (although you maintain the server) and you > can focus on the site. > > - Justin > > On 5/23/06, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: >> HELO, >> >> I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide >> the >> box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice >> connection to >> that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the >> basement; this is for a corporate site.) >> >> Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to >> share? >> Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If >> there's >> interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. >> >> >> regards, >> emma >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 20:13:22 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:13:22 -0400 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: <20060523171354.GA13572-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <1148415202.2691.504.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 13:13 -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > HELO, > > I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the > box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice connection to > that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the > basement; this is for a corporate site.) > > Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to share? > Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If there's > interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. Hi Emma, We offer a niche form of colocation. We offer server rental and colocation packages with more of a personal touch than the large colo firms and telcos. The benefit is that you get to know the people here in our office and they get to know you. Our consultants can answer questions and can help with hardware or software problems. We are very knowledgeable in Linux and web services. In other words you won't end up talking to a operations desk person with little or no experience. If it gives you comfort knowing that there are highly skilled people ready to back you up in a moment of crisis then consider Net Direct. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 23 22:01:36 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 18:01:36 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060523164220.GB21925-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> On 23 May 2006 at 12:42, Lennart Sorensen spaketh these wourdes: > On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:37:40AM -0400, Paul King wrote: > > This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has > > adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. > > Linux most certainly has not. I believe the linux kernel uses docbook, > generating html and others from that. While I appreciate the fine distinction between Linux and GNU, I think the general use among most people (including most TLUGgers I have noticed) is to say "Linux" when we refer to the operating system and its attendant commands, taken as a whole. While that would not make Richard Stallman happy, I think that is the convention that most of us have adopted. Whether this is appropriate or "correct" is another matter. I would predict that this disticntion will matter less and less to the general public when mom, pop and aunt Martha start adopting Linux. They'll just call the whole thing Linux, just like in the Old Days (TM) when people used to call DOS "WordPerfect", because they spent their whole time there to write documents, move and delete files, and create directories as though it were the OS itself. That being said, I didn't know that docbook/html was used for the kernel docs. I usually read the stuff underneath /usr/src/linux/Documentation/ if I want to know something about how to tweak the kernel. That stuff is usually plain, raw ASCII. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 04:48:10 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 00:48:10 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... Message-ID: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> Something that's more likely to happen to us geeks than Joe-Sixpack... an article that discusses the pitfalls of disclosing vulnerabilities *EVEN TO THE SITE ADMINS*... http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/weblogs/pmeunier/policies-law/post-38/ And don't think that it can't happen here in Canada... - Police and courts here can be just as stupid as in the USA - I'm also quoting a case that happened in Britain - Many websites we deal with here are actually hosted in the US, so extradition is a possibility His recommendations... - don't ask, don't tell. Don't tell *ANYBODY* even about your suspicions - do *NOT* "investigate further" if you have suspicions. See... http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11341 > On December 31, 2004, Cuthbert, using an Apple laptop and Safari > browser, became concerned that a website collecting credit card > details for donations to the Tsunami appeal could be a phishing > site. After making a donation, and not seeing a final confirmation > or thank-you page, Cuthbert put ../../../ into the address line. If > the site had been unprotected this would have allowed him to move > up three directories. > > After running the two tests, at between 15.12 and 15.15 on New Year's > Eve, Cuthbert took no further action. *HE WAS CONVICTED* - If you *REALLY* *REALLY* *REALLY* know what you're doing, an anonymizer might work. The vast majority will eventually keel in to search warrants and subpeonas - If you feel that that your personal info is at risk... - *DON'T* "investigate further" - see a lawyer and tell him of your suspicions - ask the lawyer to write a cease-&-desist letter, with implications of a possible lawsuit, asking the site to stop potentially exposing your personal info. (The best defence is a good offence) -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 00:02:04 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 19:02:04 -0500 Subject: rsync hangs counting files. Message-ID: <1e55af990605231702q3654cd90yb946774e05b040aa@mail.gmail.com> I've got a basic rsync happening over an ssh connection from my work computer to my home computer. It's something I've been doing every day for a while now. I've changed nothing about the rsync, the computer, networking, etc.. I'm just doing it as per usual. rsync hangs at the "receiving file list" stage. I am using the verbose switch and I can see the number of files it's counted to. This number varies each time I retry the rsync. I can ssh in, even when rsync is hung like this. I've already rebooted the box just in case it was some runaway process doing some disk thrashing or some such. Where do I go from here to learn what's gone wrong? I've already tried patience. Waiting for an hour did nothing. The rsync should only take minutes at most. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 06:36:38 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:36:38 +0800 Subject: colocation for servers In-Reply-To: References: <20060523171354.GA13572@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <200605241436.38567.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, Few weeks back a data center gave me a contract with 10,000% SLA... hmmm... upto now Im still wondering how they computed such value and got 10,000%. On Wednesday 24 May 2006 02:34, Dave Cramer wrote: > On 23-May-06, at 1:13 PM, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > > HELO, > > > > I'm looking to colocate a (single) server somewhere. We'll provide the > > box...we're looking for four or five 9s uptime and a nice > > connection to > > that there interweb. (Note: I'm not looking to host my own box in the > > basement; this is for a corporate site.) > > Nobody can guarantee 5 9's uptime. Many advertise it but ask them > what happens when the power goes out for a day, and they can't buy > diesel anywhere. > > > AFAIR, that's 8 minutes per year. But I can recommend my personal > hosting preference > > www.sentex.net > > > Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences they'd like to > > share? > > Please feel free to respond off-list as it is a bit off-topic. If > > there's > > interest I'm happy to provide a summary back to the list. > > > > > > regards, > > emma > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 09:47:00 2006 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 05:47:00 -0400 Subject: rsync hangs counting files. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605231702q3654cd90yb946774e05b040aa-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605231702q3654cd90yb946774e05b040aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44742B94.9090300@cogeco.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > > rsync hangs at the "receiving file list" stage. I am using the > verbose switch and I can see the number of files it's counted to. > This number varies each time I retry the rsync. Sometimes, rsync's counting of the files takes alot of memory. Do you have enough memory or swap enabled on both sender and receiver? Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Phone: (416) 863-2126 CNW Group Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 11:25:44 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:25:44 +0300 (IDT) Subject: ie problem Message-ID: Browser closes when opening certain sites ? http://metasploit.blogspot.com/2006/03/browser-fuzzing-for-fun-and-profit.html P -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 11:39:36 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 06:39:36 -0500 Subject: rsync hangs counting files. In-Reply-To: <44742B94.9090300-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605231702q3654cd90yb946774e05b040aa@mail.gmail.com> <44742B94.9090300@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605240439q3c8d1b89x9c03dd8e9858711a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/06, Terry Tanski wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > > > rsync hangs at the "receiving file list" stage. I am using the > > verbose switch and I can see the number of files it's counted to. > > This number varies each time I retry the rsync. > > Sometimes, rsync's counting of the files takes alot of memory. Do you > have enough memory or swap enabled on both sender and receiver? A gig of real memory on each, and only a few thousand files. I haven't added many files since my last sync either. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 20:22:45 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:22:45 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <44734E00.25604.9C577E3-uuyTbqJmvjjRzhN20pBLLPQsgn7MoEWs@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 23, 2006 at 06:01:36PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > While I appreciate the fine distinction between Linux and GNU, I think the > general use among most people (including most TLUGgers I have noticed) is to say > "Linux" when we refer to the operating system and its attendant commands, taken > as a whole. While that would not make Richard Stallman happy, I think that is the > convention that most of us have adopted. Whether this is appropriate or "correct" > is another matter. > > I would predict that this disticntion will matter less and less to the general > public when mom, pop and aunt Martha start adopting Linux. They'll just call the > whole thing Linux, just like in the Old Days (TM) when people used to call DOS > "WordPerfect", because they spent their whole time there to write documents, move > and delete files, and create directories as though it were the OS itself. > > That being said, I didn't know that docbook/html was used for the kernel docs. I > usually read the stuff underneath /usr/src/linux/Documentation/ if I want to know > something about how to tweak the kernel. That stuff is usually plain, raw ASCII. Hmm, most is still plain text. Documentation/DocBook and Documentation/sound/alsa/DocBook seem to be the only places using DocBook so far. But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT moving towards info for documentation. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 20:33:35 2006 From: frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (frankpeng-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:33:35 -0400 Subject: How to get tomcat to re-read the keystore file without restart tomct for https protocol? In-Reply-To: <20060524202244.GD21925-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <8C84D8877514A2E-7F4-609F@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> Hi, I do not know how https works but I know it needs a file called .keystore. I do not know how tomcat reads this file. If I changed it and I want it read a new one, is that possible. I need change the .keystore file every day or half-day because some dictator governments censor my keys and block my web site because it is promoting human rights and democracy. I need make an 30 or 300 different .keystore files and change it every day so that they can not follow me to filter out my certification key file. If I use http, they can censor the content of the web site, and block it right away. So I have to go with https. Anyone could help me will be appreciated. There are billions of people in this world they even do not know what human rights means, please help them out. It will eventually help our selves. Thanks! Frank Peng. -----Original Message----- From: Lennart Sorensen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:22:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: info and man On Tue, May 23, 2006 at 06:01:36PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > While I appreciate the fine distinction between Linux and GNU, I think the > general use among most people (including most TLUGgers I have noticed) is to say > "Linux" when we refer to the operating system and its attendant commands, taken > as a whole. While that would not make Richard Stallman happy, I think that is the > convention that most of us have adopted. Whether this is appropriate or "correct" > is another matter. > > I would predict that this disticntion will matter less and less to the general > public when mom, pop and aunt Martha start adopting Linux. They'll just call the > whole thing Linux, just like in the Old Days (TM) when people used to call DOS > "WordPerfect", because they spent their whole time there to write documents, move > and delete files, and create directories as though it were the OS itself. > > That being said, I didn't know that docbook/html was used for the kernel docs. I > usually read the stuff underneath /usr/src/linux/Documentation/ if I want to know > something about how to tweak the kernel. That stuff is usually plain, raw ASCII. Hmm, most is still plain text. Documentation/DocBook and Documentation/sound/alsa/DocBook seem to be the only places using DocBook so far. But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT moving towards info for documentation. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 20:43:38 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 20:43:38 +0000 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <1148099860.6928.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5/20/06, Paul King wrote: > This is a pet peeve that has been bugging me ever since Linux has > adopted "info" as the standard for help documents. Not true for Linux; only for GNU... > Am I the only one who finds info unwieldy and difficult to navigate > through? I use the word "difficult" loosely. If all I want is the > manpage for a command, I shouldn't have to navigate through anything > except that single document. pinfo is an alternative client that doesn't try to emulate an Emacs in-the-buffer interface, which is probably preferable for non-Emacs users. > The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the > conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less > (sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted > documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). Nonsense. It surely *does* borrow conventions from other programs. It borrows conspicuously from GNU Emacs. > What is the word on man? Is that being phased out? Do we now have to > store two formats of the same documentation? I noticed that doing an > "info ls" gives me the manpage inside of info. Are they similar formats? No, they're not. The history here is that the info format predates the World Wide Web. At the time it was introduced, HTML *didn't exist*. The TeXinfo language, which is what GNU uses, was a quite reasonable choice at the time, providing a Scribe-like language that permitted doing something that DocBook only does fairly badly today, namely to allow the Gentle User to use the same documentation: a) As a hypertext document, browsable using any info-compatible client (e.g. info, pinfo, Emacs), and b) As a typeset printed document of high quality, complete with various tables of contents (and indexes). I'm not sure that anyone believes in building man pages anymore; I don't, in my involvement with Slony-I, as we can put in a DocBook form of them which is (with some pain) translatable into man pages. I suspect that is getting more common than it used to be. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 21:18:51 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:18:51 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060524202244.GD21925-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT > moving towards info for documentation. Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me single document which can be piped to 'less'. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 21:45:17 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060524211851.GA837-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 May 2006, William Park wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT >> moving towards info for documentation. > > Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces > and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me > single document which can be piped to 'less'. Which you navigate using keystrokes. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 21:51:07 2006 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Run program from a different folder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060524215107.37804.qmail@web52012.mail.yahoo.com> Hello All, I have installed a program on a Linux server and plan to NFS export the program folder so users using linux workstations can run it locally. The program is currently installed on the server in /usr/local/. Can someone advise how I can make other user launch it from their own directory so they have read/write access. (only root can do r/w to /usr/local/) Many thanks, Michael --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:00:49 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 23:00:49 +0100 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060522000555.GA12863-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4474D791.2020109@quadratic.net> Walter Dnes wrote: >On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:37:40AM -0400, Paul King wrote > > > >>The interface for document navigation under info borrows none of the >>conventions from other programs the way man did. Man used less >>(sometimes more) as the way to present its troff/nroff-formatted >>documents, and that was very simple to navigate (using /). >> >> > > Here's an idea of mine for a text game... >http://www.waltdnes.org/annoyances/infosucks.html > > Any programmers around want to take on that challenge? > > > I dunno what all the fuss is abut. Took me a couple of days to learn what I needed to walk around info. nearly the same amount of time to learn how to get around vi. I mean gawd, it's a document viewer, how hard does it have to be? David Thornton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:07:23 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 23:07:23 +0100 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <4474D91B.4090103@quadratic.net> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 24 May 2006, William Park wrote: > >> On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT >>> moving towards info for documentation. >> >> >> Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces >> and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me >> single document which can be piped to 'less'. > > > Which you navigate using keystrokes. > Snap!.. That was hee-larious! Some of the stuff "techies" write (including some of the stuff I've wrttien) cracks me up. David Thornton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:08:31 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:08:31 +0000 Subject: Run program from a different folder In-Reply-To: <20060524215107.37804.qmail-LDwpKz3QChaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524215107.37804.qmail@web52012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/24/06, Michael Yang wrote: > > Hello All, > > I have installed a program on a Linux server and plan to NFS export the > program folder so users using linux workstations can run it locally. The > program is currently installed on the server in /usr/local/. Can someone > advise how I can make other user launch it from their own directory so they > have read/write access. (only root can do r/w to /usr/local/) You may want to look into the implications of an environment variable called PATH... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:11:04 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:11:04 +0000 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: On 5/24/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 24 May 2006, William Park wrote: > > > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT > >> moving towards info for documentation. > > > > Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces > > and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me > > single document which can be piped to 'less'. > > Which you navigate using keystrokes. No, no, no! You navigate 'less' using... um... well... ah... keystrokes... Oh, the horror... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:36:34 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 23:36:34 +0100 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060524044810.GA25131-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4474DFF2.5080202@quadratic.net> Walter Dnes wrote: > Something that's more likely to happen to us geeks than Joe-Sixpack... >an article that discusses the pitfalls of disclosing vulnerabilities >*EVEN TO THE SITE ADMINS*... >http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/weblogs/pmeunier/policies-law/post-38/ >And don't think that it can't happen here in Canada... > - Police and courts here can be just as stupid as in the USA > > - I'm also quoting a case that happened in Britain > > - Many websites we deal with here are actually hosted in the US, so > extradition is a possibility > > His recommendations... > - don't ask, don't tell. Don't tell *ANYBODY* even about your > suspicions > > - do *NOT* "investigate further" if you have suspicions. See... > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11341 > > >>On December 31, 2004, Cuthbert, using an Apple laptop and Safari >>browser, became concerned that a website collecting credit card >>details for donations to the Tsunami appeal could be a phishing >>site. After making a donation, and not seeing a final confirmation >>or thank-you page, Cuthbert put ../../../ into the address line. If >>the site had been unprotected this would have allowed him to move >>up three directories. >> >>After running the two tests, at between 15.12 and 15.15 on New Year's >>Eve, Cuthbert took no further action. >> >> > *HE WAS CONVICTED* > > - If you *REALLY* *REALLY* *REALLY* know what you're doing, an > anonymizer might work. The vast majority will eventually keel in > to search warrants and subpeonas > > - If you feel that that your personal info is at risk... > - *DON'T* "investigate further" > - see a lawyer and tell him of your suspicions > - ask the lawyer to write a cease-&-desist letter, with implications > of a possible lawsuit, asking the site to stop potentially > exposing your personal info. (The best defence is a good offence) > > > a very interesting story indeed at first glance my question would be: who do I call / write to get this act scrutinized (i'm a Canadian UK citizen, working in IT). however: http://www.emergentchaos.com/archives/2005/10/daniel_cuthbert.html The lesson here is: ask first. Which goes against my nature .If I see a hole; I prove it's a hole first, then I tell someone. I would look pretty silly screaming "the sky is falling" if it was not. So what do you think the conversation would be with a dumb bi uisiness ( with thrid party clueless web desgin group): (I'm not bitter) David: Hullo, I saw your site and think there maybe a gapping hole in it. Can I test it out? Bussiness man: What? Who are you and why are you hacking my web site. David: I'm not I haven't. I'd like to help you. I think I see a vulnerablity but the law forbids me from investigating on my own without your consent. Would you like to me investigate? If yes: get it in writing. Oh and: i'm not a lawyer so get professional advice if you really want to do this. My biggest problem is I'm allergic to paperwork so I would start sneazing and coughing as soon as the fax wit hthe consent came in. And I had ADH -- oh look my belly button. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 24 22:45:42 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:45:42 -0500 Subject: rsync hangs counting files. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605240439q3c8d1b89x9c03dd8e9858711a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605231702q3654cd90yb946774e05b040aa@mail.gmail.com> <44742B94.9090300@cogeco.ca> <1e55af990605240439q3c8d1b89x9c03dd8e9858711a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605241545r385870c2sf2fdcadf9c8dd7a1@mail.gmail.com> Curious. I want to work today as usual. Came home and did the sync again and it worked just fine. One notible thing is that I rebooted the router and modem. Could it be that there was some sort of issue with the connection freezing? =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 01:39:05 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 21:39:05 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44750AB9.6020701@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/24/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Wed, 24 May 2006, William Park wrote: >> >> > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT >> >> moving towards info for documentation. >> > >> > Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces >> > and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me >> > single document which can be piped to 'less'. >> >> Which you navigate using keystrokes. > > No, no, no! You navigate 'less' using... um... well... ah... > keystrokes... More or less. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 01:58:24 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 21:58:24 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <44750AB9.6020701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> <44750AB9.6020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605241858r7592ebbdqe7c8c85662a8a86a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/06, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 5/24/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > No, no, no! You navigate 'less' using... um... well... ah... > > keystrokes... > > More or less. ;-) Lol - just before the advent of WAJAX, I was trying to get JSUIX working on my test site and said much the same thing. If you'd like to look, goto http://psema4.gotnds.com and scroll down to the "Open W/UIX Terminal 1" link. Open the terminal and type in "todo" without quotes. =) If you'd rather not look, then here it is (the last entry): List of items to be done: * SAJAX Inteface (for database access and other services. use perl;) * WUIX FileSystem * wuixfs: * file object * name * contents * integrate executables for CLI? (TW style?) CLI access to GUI divs? * wuixfs commands: * ds and cwd are both started. Env is effectively chroot /home/guest * ls, cd, mv, mkdir, rmdir are not supported yet. * For the CLI - a man, a cat, an editor, and more or less is needed. * Seriously. =) [guest]$ -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 02:04:00 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:04:00 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605241858r7592ebbdqe7c8c85662a8a86a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44734E00.25604.9C577E3@pking123.sympatico.ca> <20060524202244.GD21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> <44750AB9.6020701@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0605241858r7592ebbdqe7c8c85662a8a86a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605241904r533d55e8o61dc2ee2de001042@mail.gmail.com> Replying, once again, to my own email... On 5/24/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > If you'd like to look, goto http://psema4.gotnds.com and scroll down Please make that http://psema4.gotdns.com/ Sorry. -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 03:20:42 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 23:20:42 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: References: <20060524211851.GA837@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <4474EA4A.30281.100FF800@pking123.sympatico.ca> On 24 May 2006 at 17:45, Chris F.A. Johnson spaketh these wourdes: > On Wed, 24 May 2006, William Park wrote: > > > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> But fortunately, Linux, no matter what meaning you give to it, is NOT > >> moving towards info for documentation. > > > > Thank God. My pet peeve about 'info' is that it breaks up into pieces > > and forces me to navigate using keystrokes. Whereas 'manpage' gives me > > single document which can be piped to 'less'. > > Which you navigate using keystrokes. > Sorry to poop everyone's party, but it's the "single document" idea that is more the issue with me. I guess the keystrokes too :-) But why should I have to learn a new interface when there is a perfectly good one already used under "less", which is a tool I already use in a number of contexts? The idea was that with man, we are using an interface - less - that is familiar to most Unix users (Linux included), so is therefore not necessary to have to re-learn a new bunch of keystrokes. Time wasted relearning a info is time better spent actually reading a manual/help document on the command you wanted in the first place. And many of the keystrokes in "less" are used in vi. Your UNIX knowledge is transferrable to several apps, lessening your learning curve and allowing you to concentrate on actually _using_ the operating system. Even in bash, you can tweak your .bashrc to allow you to use vi keystrokes to edit your command line. With the invention of "info", that knowledge was no longer transferrable to the new interface. In a company environment, these things mean time to have to re-learn new tricks, and that is money not used to do whatever else you were hired to do. I would like to see Linux move toward simplicity and elegance. Info is a move away from that trend, in my view. And I am so glad to hear of many Linux distros including Debian moving away from info. I did notice that no Debian manpages I have read so far contain that warning that "this manpage is no longer maintained. please use info from now on". Instead of hyperlinks, I am perfectly happy with "SEE ALSO" at the bottom of each manpage. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 04:32:03 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 00:32:03 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <4474D791.2020109-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> <4474D791.2020109@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20060525043203.GA10957@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 11:00:49PM +0100, david thornton wrote: > I dunno what all the fuss is abut. > > Took me a couple of days to learn what I needed to walk around info. > > nearly the same amount of time to learn how to get around vi. > > I mean gawd, it's a document viewer, how hard does it have to be? Yeah, I take a few hours to learn info keystrokes every six months or so - i.e. every time I have no other choice for getting a piece of documentation. In the mean time, I use less many time a day to control viewing the output from any of the thousands of programs that can generate more than a page of output at a time. Since they all just generate a stream of text, I get to use the same viewing program for all of them, and I only had to learn the interface once. (Well, a few times - pg, page, more and less each had their turn as the best choice available; but none of them were tied to any input requirement other than a text stream.) If every one of those thousands of programs had instead been written with their own private viewing format, none of them would be useful. As it is, info is only usful for people who use it often enough to make it worth the effort to learn the interface (without forgetting it again before the next time it is needed). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 06:35:51 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 03:35:51 -0300 (ADT) Subject: CEOS'06 NEWSLETTER NO. 1 Message-ID: =============================================================================== =============================================================================== CEOS'06 NEWSLETTER NO. 1 May 25, 2006 Then 2nd Annual Conference on Engaging in Open Source Halifax, Nova Scotia June 1 & 2, 2006 http://ceos.dal-acm.ca =============================================================================== =============================================================================== =============================================================================== Table of Contents =============================================================================== 1. Registration 2. Schedule 3. Student Volunteers 4. Sponsors 5. Organizers =============================================================================== 1. Registration =============================================================================== Advanced registration deadline: Monday, May 29, 2006 (extended) Those who miss the advanced registration deadline will be able to register on-site. Please pre-register online even if you wish to pay on site. Registration web page: http://ceos.dal-acm.ca/Registration/ The first 50 Dalhousie Computer Science students who pay their registration fee will be reimbursed $10 when they pick up their conference kits. =============================================================================== 2. Schedule =============================================================================== The conference schedule is posted at: http://ceos.dal-acm.ca/Schedule/ Benjamin Mako Hill from the MIT Media Lab will deliver the keynote presentation on the meaning of "Free and Open Source Software". Alain Desilets from the National Research Council will deliver an invited presentation on the dos and donts of running a small open source project. We have 9 presentations and 4 tutorials lined up. In addition, we will have and open session moderated by Dr. Nick Cercone, Dean of the Faculty of Computer Science at Dalhousie University. The open session will enable the audience to engage in a friendly discussion on controversial topics in open source software, as well as the future of CEOS. A combination of an InstallFest and the traditional GeekBeer social will follow. Bring your own hardware, or help us on ours. We are planning on hacking operating systems, software configurations, as well as some hardware hacking (did somebody say roombas?). All events will take place in the Computer Science Building, 6050 University Ave, Halifax, Nova Scotia. =============================================================================== 3. Student Volunteers =============================================================================== Those interested in contributing to the success of CEOS'06 are invited to volunteer! Volunteering allows you to participate in the conference by helping us out with the following activities: * Registration * Setup * Catering, coffee, tables, and projectors setup * Door monitors * Odds and ends over both days If you would like to be a volunteer please email ceos-RazJlWb3c/r3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org and indicate which activities you would like to help out with. Volunteering opportunities are limited and will be awarded on a first-come basis. All volunteers receive free registration. =============================================================================== 4. Sponsors =============================================================================== We would like to thank the following organizations for contributing to CEOS'06: Platinum Sponsors: Dalhousie Student Chapter of the ACM Dalhousie University Faculty of Computer Science Gold Sponsor: Dalhousie Student Union Silver Sponsor: Dalhousie Computer Science Society Special thanks to GINI CONNECT and O'Reilly Media Inc. =============================================================================== 5. Organizers =============================================================================== The CEOS'06 organizing committee consists of: * Tony Abou-Assaleh (Brock University, CAN) (Co-chair) * Philip O'Brien (Dalhousie University, CAN) (Co-chair) * Hathai Tanta-ngai (Dalhousie University, CAN) (Treasurer) * Oliver Baltzer (Dalhousie University, CAN) * Chris Hamilton (Dalhousie University, CAN) * Jaehyun Paek (Dalhousie University, CAN) * Sean Smith (Dalhousie University, CAN) * Andrew Wong (Dalhousie University, CAN) =============================================================================== =============================================================================== For more information, visit the conference web site at: http://ceos.dal-acm.ca or contact us by email at ceos-ULEjM0V0dPWw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org =============================================================================== =============================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 10:33:11 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 06:33:11 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <4474DFF2.5080202-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <4474DFF2.5080202@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20060525103311.GA27882@waltdnes.org> On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 11:36:34PM +0100, david thornton wrote > The lesson here is: ask first. > > Which goes against my nature .If I see a hole; I prove it's a hole > first, then I tell someone. I would look pretty silly screaming "the sky > is falling" if it was not. My idea would be to get a lawyer to draft up an email to the web admin, along the lines of... ======================================================================== To whom it may concern; Whilst looking for for pricing on product X at various websites I found via the Google(TM) search engine, I came across your website. I noticed that your website uses PHP FUBAR v1.3. At the homepage of the publisher of PHP FUBAR, there is a security notice urging all users to upgrade to version 1.5, as all previous versions have a vulnerability to remote compromise. ======================================================================== Go on to point out that the hijacked PHP FUBAR can be used to mount DDOS attacks and send out spam, and that you (the sender of this email) might one day be a victim of a compromised machine. Maybe have the lawyer draft a generic template that covers various situations. I think that the best solution in the long run would be a legally approved (could be independantly run) anonymous reporting website, similar to anonymous police tip lines. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 13:17:24 2006 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:17:24 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060525043203.GA10957-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> <4474D791.2020109@quadratic.net> <20060525043203.GA10957@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060525131724.GA8900@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 12:32:03AM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 11:00:49PM +0100, david thornton wrote: > > I dunno what all the fuss is abut. > > > > Took me a couple of days to learn what I needed to walk around info. > > > > nearly the same amount of time to learn how to get around vi. > > > > I mean gawd, it's a document viewer, how hard does it have to be? > > Yeah, I take a few hours to learn info keystrokes every six > months or so - i.e. every time I have no other choice for > getting a piece of documentation. In the mean time, I use less > many time a day to control viewing the output from any of the > thousands of programs that can generate more than a page of > output at a time. Since they all just generate a stream of > text, I get to use the same viewing program for all of them, > and I only had to learn the interface once. (Well, a few > times - pg, page, more and less each had their turn as the > best choice available; but none of them were tied to any > input requirement other than a text stream.) > > If every one of those thousands of programs had instead been > written with their own private viewing format, none of them > would be useful. As it is, info is only usful for people who > use it often enough to make it worth the effort to learn the > interface (without forgetting it again before the next time > it is needed). EXACTLY! I so seldom use info that, when a case comes up where info is the only local source of the docs I need, I just google for the docs online instead - it's faster than re-learning yet again the bizarre (to me, a vi user) keystrokes of info. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 19:10:27 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:10:27 -0500 Subject: internet cafes In-Reply-To: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <44760123.1030008@zee4.com> zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi\ > > > I know where Linuxcaffe is, however it's quite a distance from where I am > staying, can anyone recommend any in the greater toronto area, I am > staying at the global village backpackers on the intersection of spadnia, > and king street west, currnetly having to pay $2 for 1/2 hour, so looking > for somewhere within say 5 / 10 mins walk that can offer internet / > computer access and perhaps allow me to print stuff out. e.g my resume for > job hunting. as it's currently on a usb memory stick. > > thanks for any recomendations / help > > The closest one to that area I've been to is CyberShare, see review at: http://www.yyztech.ca/page.php?PageID=116&RecordID=258&SectionID=14 Rates seem to be in the $2 range now unless you pick some kind of over-night rate (common in the gaming cafes). There's a few cheaper ones on Yonge St. up near Bloor St., for instance, Red Fox (709 Yonge St.). Some other good ones in the area are Netropass (north of Bloor) and iKlick at Yonge and Wellesley. Both of these two are aimed at people looking to do some work (print/fax/etc.) For a whole bunch more, see: http://www.yyztech.ca/all_internet_cafe_reviews.php Zoltan -- www.YYZTech.ca Toronto talks tech. www.Dine.TO Toronto's premier restaurant search engine. Get Thunderbird -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 18:13:28 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:13:28 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax Message-ID: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> What is the bash equivalent of the perl command $X++; -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 14:11:14 up 8:03, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.00 http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 18:19:48 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525181328.GB14281-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 May 2006, Neil Watson wrote: > What is the bash equivalent of the perl command > $X++; If you mean to increment a variable, then the portable, POSIX way is: X=$(( $X + 1 )) A little less portably, though still POSIX is: : $(( X += 1 )) This works in bash, but is not POSIX compliant: (( ++X )) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 18:23:47 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:23:47 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> I just discovered that let "X++" works also but, I don't think that is portable. What about the perl operator .= ? -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 14:22:14 up 8:14, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 19:10:41 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525182347.GC14281-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 May 2006, Neil Watson wrote: > I just discovered that let "X++" works also but, I don't think that is > portable. No, it's not, See my previous message for details. > What about the perl > operator .= ? What does that do? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 19:25:54 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:25:54 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060525192554.GD14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 03:10:41PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> What about the perl >>operator .= ? > > What does that do? That is the equivalent to ++ only for strings. Example: $X = "foo"; $Y = "bar"; $word = $X; $word .= $Y; print $word foobar I think I have it figured out but I'm still missing something. Consider this script: #!/bin/bash # User prefix USER="sftp" # Number or users NUM=5 # Email report recipient RECIP="nhwatson-CDzewpS4IfcWRvO7F5PPEFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org" # Mail messages MSG="Transfer passwords for today (`date`):" # Generate passwords for all users apg -m 10 -M CN -n ${NUM} | { while read PW; do X=$(( $X + 1 )) # Username will be USER+NUM e.g. sftp1 USERNAME=${USER}${X} # Set password for user echo $PW | passwd -u $USERNAME --stdin # Log change for later email MSG="${MSG} User: $USERNAME Password; $PW" done } echo $MSG #| mail -s "SSH Transfer Password Updates" $RECIP exit 0 MSG is as expect until is finishes the code block. After that it is reset to its original state. It's like MSG is scoped differently inside the code block. I am not aware that bash is scope conscious. - Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15:17:35 up 9:09, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 19:53:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525192554.GD14281-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525192554.GD14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060525195324.GE21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 03:25:54PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > That is the equivalent to ++ only for strings. Example: > $X = "foo"; > $Y = "bar"; > > $word = $X; > $word .= $Y; > > print $word > > foobar > > I think I have it figured out but I'm still missing something. Consider > this script: > > #!/bin/bash > > # User prefix > USER="sftp" > > # Number or users > NUM=5 > > # Email report recipient > RECIP="nhwatson-CDzewpS4IfcWRvO7F5PPEFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org" > > # Mail messages > MSG="Transfer passwords for today (`date`):" > > # Generate passwords for all users > apg -m 10 -M CN -n ${NUM} | { > > while read PW; do > > X=$(( $X + 1 )) > > # Username will be USER+NUM e.g. sftp1 > USERNAME=${USER}${X} > > # Set password for user > echo $PW | passwd -u $USERNAME --stdin > > # Log change for later email > MSG="${MSG} User: $USERNAME Password; $PW" > > done > } > > echo $MSG #| mail -s "SSH Transfer Password Updates" $RECIP > exit 0 > > MSG is as expect until is finishes the code block. After that it is reset > to > its original state. It's like MSG is scoped differently inside the code > block. > I am not aware that bash is scope conscious. If you want it global, you have to export it. Change the original place you made MSG to have export in front, then it will be global and the block should change the global rather than the local copy of it. like: export MSG=".... Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 20:21:25 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525195324.GE21925-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525192554.GD14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525195324.GE21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 May 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 03:25:54PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >> That is the equivalent to ++ only for strings. Example: [snip] >> # Generate passwords for all users >> apg -m 10 -M CN -n ${NUM} | { >> >> while read PW; do >> >> X=$(( $X + 1 )) >> >> # Username will be USER+NUM e.g. sftp1 >> USERNAME=${USER}${X} >> >> # Set password for user >> echo $PW | passwd -u $USERNAME --stdin >> >> # Log change for later email >> MSG="${MSG} User: $USERNAME Password; $PW" >> >> done >> } >> >> echo $MSG #| mail -s "SSH Transfer Password Updates" $RECIP >> exit 0 >> >> MSG is as expect until is finishes the code block. After that it is reset >> to >> its original state. It's like MSG is scoped differently inside the code >> block. >> I am not aware that bash is scope conscious. > > If you want it global, you have to export it. Change the original place > you made MSG to have export in front, then it will be global and the > block should change the global rather than the local copy of it. > > like: export MSG=".... No, that will not help. The elements of a pipeline are executed in a subshell, and the parent shell cannot see any changes made. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 20:30:37 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525192554.GD14281-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525192554.GD14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 May 2006, Neil Watson wrote: [snip] > # Generate passwords for all users > apg -m 10 -M CN -n ${NUM} | { > > while read PW; do > > X=$(( $X + 1 )) > > # Username will be USER+NUM e.g. sftp1 > USERNAME=${USER}${X} > > # Set password for user > echo $PW | passwd -u $USERNAME --stdin > > # Log change for later email > MSG="${MSG} User: $USERNAME Password; $PW" > > done > } > > echo $MSG #| mail -s "SSH Transfer Password Updates" $RECIP > exit 0 > > MSG is as expect until is finishes the code block. After that it is reset to > its original state. It's like MSG is scoped differently inside the code > block. > I am not aware that bash is scope conscious. Each element of a pipeline is executed in a separate subshell, and the parent shell knows nothing of what goes on behind those closed doors. Move the "echo $MSG ..." inside the braces and all will be well. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 20:52:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:52:19 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525182347.GC14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525192554.GD14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060525195324.GE21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060525205219.GF21925@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 04:21:25PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >If you want it global, you have to export it. Change the original place > >you made MSG to have export in front, then it will be global and the > >block should change the global rather than the local copy of it. > > > >like: export MSG=".... > > No, that will not help. The elements of a pipeline are executed in > a subshell, and the parent shell cannot see any changes made. Oh I missed the pipe to a subshell. Yeah that won't work. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 21:27:26 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 17:27:26 -0400 Subject: info and man In-Reply-To: <20060525043203.GA10957-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1148099860.6928.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060522000555.GA12863@waltdnes.org> <4474D791.2020109@quadratic.net> <20060525043203.GA10957@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060525212726.GD14975@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 12:32:03AM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 11:00:49PM +0100, david thornton wrote: > > I dunno what all the fuss is abut. > > > > Took me a couple of days to learn what I needed to walk around info. > > > > nearly the same amount of time to learn how to get around vi. > > > > I mean gawd, it's a document viewer, how hard does it have to be? > > Yeah, I take a few hours to learn info keystrokes every six > months or so - i.e. every time I have no other choice for > getting a piece of documentation. In the mean time, I use less > many time a day to control viewing the output from any of the > thousands of programs that can generate more than a page of > output at a time. Since they all just generate a stream of > text, I get to use the same viewing program for all of them, > and I only had to learn the interface once. (Well, a few > times - pg, page, more and less each had their turn as the > best choice available; but none of them were tied to any > input requirement other than a text stream.) I agree. Let me mention two very useful programs: o most (rather than more or less etc.) o pinfo -- which is an ncurses-based way to navigate info, and straightforward enough not to need memorizing before using. Three cheers for man! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 25 22:10:19 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 01:10:19 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Bulgaria all over my server ? Message-ID: There seems to be some obnoxious acyivity from .bg originating from 80.130.xx.xx always knowcking on my web port. Is this also true for other areas ? Like, Canada ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 00:09:48 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:09:48 -0400 Subject: /tmp Message-ID: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> hey all, anyone get hassled by: - some web app is able to write to /tmp as nobody - able to run file as nobody user (say via perl) even with noexec on the partition (because perl simply reads/executes the file in /tmp) some googling suggests it's going around... with suggestions like: - have separate /tmp partition (with noexec option on partition) - disable certain PHP functions (via php.ini) - (keep all your installed webapps patched/updated/etc.) - etc. still a pain though... if anybody has a sure fire way to fight this... let me know? thanks, Scott -- Scott C. Ripley ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tel: 01.416.738.6357 Deucalion Technologies ? ? ?Fax: 01.416.201.8922 614A The Queensway ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.scottripley.com Etobicoke, ON, M8Y 1K1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailto:scott at scottripley.com CANADA The content of this electronic mail transmission is confidential. ? ? This transmission is intended solely for the use by the person(s) to whom it was addressed. ?All other recipients are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination, or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 00:12:45 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:12:45 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> References: <1148233960.16501.21.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 5/21/06, Paul King wrote: > The printer is standalone on my home network. It is wireless. I am able > to telnet to it, stick my nose in here and there, and print a test page > from the telnet session, which gives me all kinds of stats on the > printer and its settings. I figure if I can do that, printing documents > can't be too far-fetched an ambition with this printer. > If you didn't get the printer to work yet, could you try running (preferably as root): nmap -p- IP_ADDRESS_OF_THE_PRINTER That's a hyphen, a letter P, a hyphen, a space, and then the IP address. What ports are open on the printer? Is port 9100 open? Also, why not try using kdeprint to configure CUPS? Run apt-get install kdeprint then go Start -> Settings -> Printing Manager. In the "Print system currently used" drop-down menu in the bottom right, choose CUPS. I use that locally for printing to my Epson Stylus 740 inkjet and it works fine. Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 00:23:45 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:23:45 -0400 Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <200605252009.48496.scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> Message-ID: <44764A91.1080306@alteeve.com> Scott C. Ripley wrote: > hey all, > > anyone get hassled by: > - some web app is able to write to /tmp as nobody > - able to run file as nobody user (say via perl) even with noexec on the > partition (because perl simply reads/executes the file in /tmp) > > some googling suggests it's going around... with suggestions like: > - have separate /tmp partition (with noexec option on partition) > - disable certain PHP functions (via php.ini) > - (keep all your installed webapps patched/updated/etc.) > - etc. > > still a pain though... if anybody has a sure fire way to fight this... let me > know? > > thanks, > > Scott We just had something like this on a couple of our production servers. Specifically, some twerp was able to run a command that told wget to grab some data and establish some telnet connections (or try at least). These where *BSD machines... I found that the 'httpd' had a crontab entry set to respawn a service every minute, too. My boss updated Apache and a couple of other programs (inc. a webmail app) and that seems to have stemmed the tide. Madison PS - If details will help I will talk to my boss tomorrow. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 01:05:11 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 21:05:11 -0400 Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <44764A91.1080306-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> <44764A91.1080306@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200605252105.11115.scott@scottripley.com> the culprit appears to be an instance of "horde" that i installed (to play with) a while ago: reference to similar issue: http://jwulf.livejournal.comb/18128.html Scott P.S. with the nasty HTTP requests attached... (not that anyone is necessarily interested!) On Thursday 25 May 2006 20:23, Madison Kelly wrote: > Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > hey all, > > > > anyone get hassled by: > > - some web app is able to write to /tmp as nobody > > - able to run file as nobody user (say via perl) even with noexec on > > the partition (because perl simply reads/executes the file in /tmp) > > > > some googling suggests it's going around... with suggestions like: > > - have separate /tmp partition (with noexec option on partition) > > - disable certain PHP functions (via php.ini) > > - (keep all your installed webapps patched/updated/etc.) > > - etc. > > > > still a pain though... if anybody has a sure fire way to fight this... > > let me know? > > > > thanks, > > > > Scott > > We just had something like this on a couple of our production servers. > Specifically, some twerp was able to run a command that told wget to > grab some data and establish some telnet connections (or try at least). > These where *BSD machines... > > I found that the 'httpd' had a crontab entry set to respawn a service > every minute, too. My boss updated Apache and a couple of other programs > (inc. a webmail app) and that seems to have stemmed the tide. > > Madison > > PS - If details will help I will talk to my boss tomorrow. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Scott C. Ripley ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tel: 01.416.738.6357 Deucalion Technologies ? ? ?Fax: 01.416.201.8922 614A The Queensway ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.scottripley.com Etobicoke, ON, M8Y 1K1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailto:scott at scottripley.com CANADA The content of this electronic mail transmission is confidential. ? ? This transmission is intended solely for the use by the person(s) to whom it was addressed. ?All other recipients are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination, or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: requests.log Type: text/x-log Size: 2731 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 01:10:23 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 21:10:23 -0400 Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <200605252105.11115.scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> <44764A91.1080306@alteeve.com> <200605252105.11115.scott@scottripley.com> Message-ID: <4476557F.8000700@alteeve.com> Scott C. Ripley wrote: > the culprit appears to be an instance of "horde" that i installed (to play > with) a while ago: > > reference to similar issue: > http://jwulf.livejournal.comb/18128.html > > Scott > > P.S. > > with the nasty HTTP requests attached... (not that anyone is necessarily > interested!) Heh, yup, that was exactly our problem, too (Horde). :p Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 02:58:00 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 22:58:00 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer Message-ID: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> Thanks to Jason Spiro for a suggestion I haven't thought of. While it did not succeed, it brings up a question as to why it didn't. He suggested that I run kdeprint and use that to configure CUPS. Running kdeprint under GNOME yielded a myriad of errors as suggested earlier in this thread, so I ran it under KDE. I got nowhere with the tool, since the menu which I am supposed to use to select CUPS was greyed out. In fact, ALL of the options were greyed out, and it was impossible to get beyond that dialog. This remained true when using KDE as root. There is a tool called "cupsdconf" which tells me "Unable to retrieve configuation file from CUPS server." It tells me that I may not have permission to access these files. It also tells me this when I am root. Using nmap -p- generated the following: 21/tcp open ftp 23/tcp open telnet 156/tcp filtered sqlsrv 457/tcp filtered scohelp 515/tcp open printer 560/tcp filtered rmonitor 1987/tcp filtered tr-rsrb-p1 2903/tcp filtered extensisportfolio 3141/tcp filtered vmodem 7004/tcp filtered afs3-kaserver 7010/tcp filtered ups-onlinet 9100/tcp open jetdirect SO, it seems as though there are several interesting services open here, but maybe there is something wrong with how cups got installed? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 03:04:25 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 23:04:25 -0400 Subject: Bulgaria all over my server ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nope .. this week's unlucky contestants for my server are from China, France, Poland, Taiwan and Israel (66.70.254.242), for users 00089, 1234, 4x4 .. all the way to zxvf, zz and zzz .. over two thousand in total. You could always block that range of IP addresses, if you wanted to .. Alex On 5/25/06, Peter wrote: > > > There seems to be some obnoxious acyivity from .bg originating from > 80.130.xx.xx always knowcking on my web port. Is this also true for > other areas ? Like, Canada ? > > tia, > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 03:13:29 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:13:29 -0700 Subject: PostgreSQL Get Together - June 1st Message-ID: I had intended to try to "organize" some form of Toronto PostgreSQL 'user group'; some challenges have gotten in the way of having that be at all "large scale," but it certainly makes sense to try to get local people interested in PostgreSQL together every so often. A number of groups gather at different times at Toronto's Linux Caffe; the first Thursday of the month seems an opportune time for this, and the next incidence of that is next Thursday, June 1st. And 7pm is the "appointed time." Linux Caffe is located at Grace and Harbord, just South of Christie station. It has free wifi, so feel free to bring a laptop. He does some quite excellent sandwiches and panini, too, and it has been too long since I have had one... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 04:01:11 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 05:01:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> References: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <3033.66.163.0.56.1148616071.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> are both the cups ports open thats 9100 and 631. also you have local and network options I had to do trial and error for this but do you need both ports open? Regarding permissions I am sure that sometimes when adding printers using kde I have to go to the administrator button and enter the root password hance setting things up as root. also is this any use \ http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-list/2004-January/msg00986.html to conclude what this says You need to put an entry in /etc/services to allow the port to be recognized by xinetd. lpd 631/tcp # lpd/CUPS port lpd 631/udp # lpd/CUPS port Paul > Thanks to Jason Spiro for a suggestion I haven't thought of. While it > did not succeed, it brings up a question as to why it didn't. > > He suggested that I run kdeprint and use that to configure CUPS. Running > kdeprint under GNOME yielded a myriad of errors as suggested earlier in > this thread, so I ran it under KDE. I got nowhere with the tool, since > the menu which I am supposed to use to select CUPS was greyed out. In > fact, ALL of the options were greyed out, and it was impossible to get > beyond that dialog. This remained true when using KDE as root. > > There is a tool called "cupsdconf" which tells me "Unable to retrieve > configuation file from CUPS server." It tells me that I may not have > permission to access these files. It also tells me this when I am root. > > Using nmap -p- generated the following: > > 21/tcp open ftp > 23/tcp open telnet > 156/tcp filtered sqlsrv > 457/tcp filtered scohelp > 515/tcp open printer > 560/tcp filtered rmonitor > 1987/tcp filtered tr-rsrb-p1 > 2903/tcp filtered extensisportfolio > 3141/tcp filtered vmodem > 7004/tcp filtered afs3-kaserver > 7010/tcp filtered ups-onlinet > 9100/tcp open jetdirect > > SO, it seems as though there are several interesting services open here, > but maybe there is something wrong with how cups got installed? > > Paul King > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 04:10:16 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 00:10:16 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL Get Together - June 1st In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44767FA8.8070005@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > I had intended to try to "organize" some form of Toronto PostgreSQL > 'user group'; some challenges have gotten in the way of having that be > at all "large scale," but it certainly makes sense to try to get local > people interested in PostgreSQL together every so often. > > A number of groups gather at different times at Toronto's Linux Caffe; > the first Thursday of the month seems an opportune time for this, and > the next incidence of that is next Thursday, June 1st. And 7pm is the > "appointed time." > > Linux Caffe is located at Grace and Harbord, just South of Christie > station. It has free wifi, so feel free to bring a laptop. He does > some quite excellent sandwiches and panini, too, and it has been too > long since I have had one... Excellent idea. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 04:42:19 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 00:42:19 -0400 Subject: bash $X++ sintax In-Reply-To: <20060525181328.GB14281-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060525181328.GB14281@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4476872B.3030701@utoronto.ca> Syntax is the correct spelling. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 06:21:44 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 09:21:44 +0300 Subject: Host how to Message-ID: Hi, There is this tool called host that is supposed to resolve a host names to an IP. I am having issues on how to use it, i.e the syntax and switch use to make it helpful. Man page is a little unfriendly and google threw way too way too many useless pages due to the heavy usage of the word "host" in other context. Would someone be kind enough to type a few oxamples of how to use this tool, i.e one extracting a name from IP address and the other doing reverse? Thanks in advance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 10:23:15 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 06:23:15 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <3033.66.163.0.56.1148616071.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> <3033.66.163.0.56.1148616071.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <1148638995.7863.14.camel@gandalf> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 05:01 +0100, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > are both the cups ports open thats 9100 and 631. also you have local and > network options I had to do trial and error for this but do you need both > ports open? > My printer doesn't have port 631 open. Is that a problem? /etc/services doesn't list them as "lpd", they list them as "ipp" (internet printing protocol). Those ports are open. ipp 631/tcp # Internet Printing Protocol ipp 631/udp > Regarding permissions I am sure that sometimes when adding printers using > kde I have to go to the administrator button and enter the root password > hance setting things up as root. > doesn't work for me, even when I log in as root to KDE. I can't tell you any details about what got set up the wrong way, because the setup tool won't let me get past the greyed-out dialog. Something must be wrong with how CUPS was installed, because even the option for CUPS is greyed out, as if I never installed it. I had to install CUPS using synaptic. > also is this any use > \ > http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-list/2004-January/msg00986.html > This guy added these lines in himself. The "lpd" was put in as just being a name. My two lines containing "ipp" were part of the default settings under Debian. > to conclude what this says > > You need to put an entry in /etc/services to allow the port to be recognized > by xinetd. > > lpd 631/tcp # lpd/CUPS port > lpd 631/udp # lpd/CUPS port > While this entry exists as IPP, there is no entry under /etc/services for port 9100. I guess there doesn't need to be one, since the printer has to understand that port, not my computer. Paul > > Paul > > > Thanks to Jason Spiro for a suggestion I haven't thought of. While it > > did not succeed, it brings up a question as to why it didn't. > > > > He suggested that I run kdeprint and use that to configure CUPS. Running > > kdeprint under GNOME yielded a myriad of errors as suggested earlier in > > this thread, so I ran it under KDE. I got nowhere with the tool, since > > the menu which I am supposed to use to select CUPS was greyed out. In > > fact, ALL of the options were greyed out, and it was impossible to get > > beyond that dialog. This remained true when using KDE as root. > > > > There is a tool called "cupsdconf" which tells me "Unable to retrieve > > configuation file from CUPS server." It tells me that I may not have > > permission to access these files. It also tells me this when I am root. > > > > Using nmap -p- generated the following: > > > > 21/tcp open ftp > > 23/tcp open telnet > > 156/tcp filtered sqlsrv > > 457/tcp filtered scohelp > > 515/tcp open printer > > 560/tcp filtered rmonitor > > 1987/tcp filtered tr-rsrb-p1 > > 2903/tcp filtered extensisportfolio > > 3141/tcp filtered vmodem > > 7004/tcp filtered afs3-kaserver > > 7010/tcp filtered ups-onlinet > > 9100/tcp open jetdirect > > > > SO, it seems as though there are several interesting services open here, > > but maybe there is something wrong with how cups got installed? > > > > Paul King > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 11:32:30 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 26 May 2006 07:32:30 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL Get Together - June 1st In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Christopher Browne" writes: > I had intended to try to "organize" some form of Toronto PostgreSQL > 'user group'; some challenges have gotten in the way of having that be > at all "large scale," but it certainly makes sense to try to get local > people interested in PostgreSQL together every so often. Everyone knows about the PostgreSQL conference in TO in July, right? http://conference.postgresql.org/ Hmm, looks like I waited too long to register. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 12:27:36 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:27:36 +0100 (BST) Subject: Host how to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3903.66.163.0.56.1148646456.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> I did a search on google.com/linux/ and that mainly seems to have links to a host as in a computer, however there are commands such as dig, whois, that may serve what you need. not actually heard of host. have heard of hostname, and xhost, so hostname could just be host in a different name. any use Paul > Hi, > There is this tool called host that is supposed to resolve a host > names to an IP. I am having issues on how to use it, i.e the syntax > and switch use to make it helpful. Man page is a little unfriendly and > google threw way too way too many useless pages due to the heavy usage > of the word "host" in other context. Would someone be kind enough to > type a few oxamples of how to use this tool, i.e one extracting a name > from IP address and the other doing reverse? > Thanks in advance > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 14:49:23 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 10:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Host how to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 May 2006, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > There is this tool called host that is supposed to resolve a host > names to an IP. I am having issues on how to use it, i.e the syntax > and switch use to make it helpful. Man page is a little unfriendly and > google threw way too way too many useless pages due to the heavy usage > of the word "host" in other context. Would someone be kind enough to > type a few oxamples of how to use this tool, i.e one extracting a name > from IP address and the other doing reverse? > Thanks in advance I had never heard of it before (I've used hostname), but man page says that "It is normally used to convert names to IP addresses and vice versa." Therefore, I tried it with both an IP dotted quad and a domain name: $ host ss.org ss.org mail is handled by 1 dsl.ss.org. $ host dsl.ss.org dsl.ss.org has address 206.108.5.1 dsl.ss.org mail is handled by 1 dsl.ss.org. $ host 206.108.5.1 1.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer dsl.ss.org. There are switches to modify its behaviour. What do you want it to do? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 14:49:17 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 10:49:17 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux Message-ID: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> This is currently restricted to US only, but us Canadians can access the files from here: http://picasa.google.com.nyud.net:8080/linux/ This runs by using wine internally, but they modified the code to fix several performance & bug issues. You can get the Linux beta of Picasa directly from the following links: Deb: http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/pool/non-free/p/picasa/picasa_2.2.2820-5_i386.deb RPM: http://dl.google.com/linux/rpm/stable/i386/picasa- 2.2.2820-5.i386.rpm Binary installer: http://dl.google.com/linux/standalone/picasa-2.2.2 820-5.i386.bin -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price at utoronto.ca Fri May 26 13:57:19 2006 From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 09:57:19 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] diagnosing serial port functionality? Message-ID: <20060526135719.GA8466@utoronto.ca> Hi folks, I'm having lots of trouble syncing my Palm V to my new, fast computer (ASUS A8N-SLI MoBo, amd 380+ dual-core cpu). Usually I use a serial-to-usb adaptor to connect my serial-out cradle to my computer, but I'm beginning to think there's some hardware problem with the adaptor (the data it sends tends to crash the usb modules). SO I want to hook up directly via the serial port. On my laptop this method seems to work (e.g., pilot-link -p /dev/ttyS0 -l is successful). However on my new desktop I get no data coming out of /dev/ttyS0 (cat /dev/ttyS0 produces no output). The serial setup on this board is wierd -- I have to plug a serial adaptor into a spot on the mainboard, and attach it to one of the slots in the case. I wonder whetherthere's any wayto test whether it's attached correctly? THe /dev/ttyS0 device is created and gives no errors when I try to cat it (unlike /dev/tty/S1+), but again, no data comes through when I attach the palm pilot & press hotsync. thanks for any advice you got! matt -------------------------- .''`. Matt Price : :' : Debian User `. `'` & hemi-geek `- -------------------------- From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 17:13:47 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:13:47 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> References: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 5/25/06, Paul King wrote: > Thanks to Jason Spiro for a suggestion I haven't thought of. My pleasure. > [snip] > There is a tool called "cupsdconf" which tells me "Unable to retrieve > configuation file from CUPS server." It tells me that I may not have > permission to access these files. It also tells me this when I am root. You are on Debian? Is CUPS installed and running? Try these. What do you get? ps aux | grep cups | grep -v grep sudo /etc/init.d/cupsys status firefox http://localhost:631 nmap localhost Please CC me on all replies. Cheers, Jason -- Firefox: the browser you can trust. http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 19:01:35 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:01:35 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <200605261049.17950.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Jason Shein wrote: > This is currently restricted to US only, but us Canadians can access the files > from here: > http://picasa.google.com.nyud.net:8080/linux/ I love the idea, and appreciate Jason posting the link. But I'm finally beginning to realize one of the major reasons I've become such a huge fan of the GPL: I don't have to read it. I know what it says and what it means. Every time I install proprietary software, I have to read the license - in this case, 2167 words of legalize. And it's only that short because Google isn't (entirely) "evil." Prime quotes: ... you may not use the Picasa Software in an automated manner The Picasa Software may communicate with Google's servers to check for available updates to the Picasa Software ... [although it does ask for permission to download, and you can disable this functionality if you work at it - but it should be disabled by default] -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 19:42:07 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:42:07 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44775A0F.4020804@utoronto.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > On 5/26/06, Jason Shein wrote: >> This is currently restricted to US only, but us Canadians can access >> the files >> from here: >> http://picasa.google.com.nyud.net:8080/linux/ > > I love the idea, and appreciate Jason posting the link. But I'm > finally beginning to realize one of the major reasons I've become such > a huge fan of the GPL: I don't have to read it. I know what it says > and what it means. Every time I install proprietary software, I have > to read the license - in this case, 2167 words of legalize. And it's > only that short because Google isn't (entirely) "evil." Agreed. 100%, if I see GPL, I dive right in. Otherwise, it takes too much time to read a license -- I'd rather search for an alternative GPL'ed equivalent, regardless of functionality unless it's really terrible or lacking. Picasa, hmm, looks good, but f-spot and the gimp are all I'll *ever* need. The usual no one ever thought they'd need most of the programs/functions etc. caveat applies here... Jamom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 20:15:10 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:15:10 -0400 Subject: wget Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> I am trying out wget to do unattended downloads by attempting to retrieve a series of video files, but it fails because it first tries to download the index.html file which - in this particular case - the directory does not have. The situation: If I point Firefox to http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ I get a blank page... I take this to mean there is no index.html file at this location? If I use wget to download a single video file from this location: wget \ http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ocw-7.012-lec-mit-10250-22oct2004-1000-220k.rm ...it works as expected. But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this command: wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ ...which returns the following error... --16:10:53-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ => `index.html' Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found 16:10:53 ERROR 404: Not Found. How do I manage to setup wget to ignore the fact that there is no index.html at this location, and just download the *.rm files I requested? wget would be a perfect tool for downloading a series of files like this unattended vs. downloading each file by hand one-by-one... Thanks in advance for any help. -- Daniel W. Armstrong ::: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com ::: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 20:38:31 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 May 2006, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I am trying out wget to do unattended downloads by attempting to > retrieve a series of video files, but it fails because it first tries > to download the index.html file which - in this particular case - the > directory does not have. > > The situation: > > If I point Firefox to http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ I > get a blank page... I take this to mean there is no index.html file at > this location? > > If I use wget to download a single video file from this location: > > wget \ > http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ocw-7.012-lec-mit-10250-22oct2004-1000-220k.rm > > ....it works as expected. > > But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video > files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked > the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this > command: > > wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > ....which returns the following error... > > --16:10:53-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > => `index.html' > Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 > Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found > 16:10:53 ERROR 404: Not Found. > > How do I manage to setup wget to ignore the fact that there is no > index.html at this location, and just download the *.rm files I > requested? wget would be a perfect tool for downloading a series of > files like this unattended vs. downloading each file by hand > one-by-one... Thanks in advance for any help. Try the -r option. It may not work, since when using HTTP, wget only downloads links. If the server sends an index, then you should be OK. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 20:40:06 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:40:06 -0400 Subject: Host how to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060526204006.GA10046@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 09:21:44AM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote > Hi, > There is this tool called host that is supposed to resolve a host > names to an IP. I am having issues on how to use it, i.e the syntax > and switch use to make it helpful. Man page is a little unfriendly > and google threw way too way too many useless pages due to the > heavy usage of the word "host" in other context. Would someone be > kind enough to type a few oxamples of how to use this tool, i.e one > extracting a name from IP address and the other doing reverse? It's a general tool that can do *A LOT* of different things. It also deals with DNS information, which is a complex area. That's why it's not simple. Some of the more common uses are... 1) Looking up IP addresses for specific machines. It will also list mail handlers (MX)... [m3000][waltdnes][~] host tlug.ss.org tlug.ss.org has address 192.234.254.38 tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 1 dsl.ss.org. [m3000][waltdnes][~] host waltdnes.org waltdnes.org has address 216.40.33.117 waltdnes.org mail is handled by 10 manson.clss.net. 2) Converting IP addresses to machine names... if the machine has an rDNS entry in the first place [m3000][root][~] host 192.234.254.38 Host 38.254.234.192.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) [m3000][waltdnes][~] host 216.40.33.117 117.33.40.216.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ddwww.tucows.com. 3) Listing specific DNS records (MX, CNAME, etc) [m3000][root][~] host -t CNAME www.waltdnes.org www.waltdnes.org is an alias for www.clss.net. [m3000][waltdnes][~] host -t MX waltdnes.org waltdnes.org mail is handled by 10 manson.clss.net. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 20:54:05 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261354r39240246l2286865a379f6e11@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Try the -r option. It may not work, since when using HTTP, wget > only downloads links. If the server sends an index, then you should > be OK. Thanks for the suggestion, but adding the "-r" option does not help. I guess the problem is that - as you state - when using HTTP wget only downloads links, and this particular download directory has a collection of video files but no index.html... so there are no links for wget to follow? Am I interpreting this correctly? This is what I get when I run wget with "-r": wget -r -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ --16:52:08-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ => `ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/index.html' Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found 16:52:08 ERROR 404: Not Found. Removing ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/index.html since it should be rejected. unlink: No such file or directory FINISHED --16:52:08-- Downloaded: 0 bytes in 0 files -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 21:16:03 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:16:03 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261354r39240246l2286865a379f6e11-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261354r39240246l2286865a379f6e11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44777013.2070904@utoronto.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Thanks for the suggestion, but adding the "-r" option does not help. I > guess the problem is that - as you state - when using HTTP wget only > downloads links, and this particular download directory has a > collection of video files but no index.html... so there are no links > for wget to follow? Am I interpreting this correctly? > > This is what I get when I run wget with "-r": > > wget -r -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > --16:52:08-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > => `ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/index.html' > Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 > Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found > 16:52:08 ERROR 404: Not Found. > > Removing ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/index.html since it > should be rejected. > unlink: No such file or directory > > FINISHED --16:52:08-- > Downloaded: 0 bytes in 0 files Check Section 4 (the bottommost) on the following page: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Global/AboutOCW/newsletterfeb05.htm It lists akamai urls for the course material you are trying to access. It also lists urls on archive.org. Hope this gets you a step closer, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 21:17:40 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:17:40 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605261717.41132.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Friday 26 May 2006 16:15, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I am trying out wget to do unattended downloads by attempting to > retrieve a series of video files, but it fails because it first tries > to download the index.html file which - in this particular case - the > directory does not have. > > The situation: > > If I point Firefox to http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ I > get a blank page... I take this to mean there is no index.html file at > this location? > > If I use wget to download a single video file from this location: > > wget \ > http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ocw-7.012-lec-mit-10250-22oct2 >004-1000-220k.rm > > ...it works as expected. > > But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video > files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked > the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this > command: > > wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > ...which returns the following error... > > --16:10:53-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > => `index.html' > Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 > Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found > 16:10:53 ERROR 404: Not Found. > > How do I manage to setup wget to ignore the fact that there is no > index.html at this location, and just download the *.rm files I > requested? wget would be a perfect tool for downloading a series of > files like this unattended vs. downloading each file by hand > one-by-one... Thanks in advance for any help. If you are using firefox, first install the download-them-all extension. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/201/ Then go here: http://oops.editme.com/IntroductionToBiology Right click on the page and select "Download them all..." Go to the "additional filters" and add 220k.rm as an extension. And download away! The full list of courses available are here: http://oops.editme.com/listofcourses -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 21:42:03 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:42:03 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <44777013.2070904-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261354r39240246l2286865a379f6e11@mail.gmail.com> <44777013.2070904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261442w484ebb41y9c989737a65e1c81@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Check Section 4 (the bottommost) on the following page: > http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Global/AboutOCW/newsletterfeb05.htm > > It lists akamai urls for the course material you are trying to access. > It also lists urls on archive.org. > > Hope this gets you a step closer, No luck. I was following the instructions from MIT's OpenCourseWare FAQ, which states that the akamai links are strictly for streaming video - I confirmed this by trying to use wget on the link and came up with an empty file. To actually download the files for off-line viewing you need to use the ocw.mit.edu link... and the files I want are not stored at archive.org. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 21:47:49 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:47:49 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <200605261717.41132.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <200605261717.41132.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261447w27aaaa78m3b9c03df7819d1b1@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Jason Shein wrote: > If you are using firefox, first install the download-them-all extension. > https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/201/ > > Then go here: > http://oops.editme.com/IntroductionToBiology > > Right click on the page and select "Download them all..." Hey... thats a cool plugin! But a similar problem persists... all the links to video files are the akamai streaming links, not the site for permanent download. BTW, that OOPS site is a great effort. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:04:45 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines Message-ID: I'm trying to get reduce my hoard. So I'm getting rid of my accumulation of Scientific Americans. These are from the good old days of the magazine when many of the articles were actually written by people doing the work described. Many with "Mathematical Games" by Martin Gardiner. Free. 1963 April [first and last few pages missing but all articles are complete. Include J. Tuzo Wilson's landmark article "Continental Drift"] 1964 April to July, November to December 1965 January - June 1966 September [special issue on information; cover in poor condition] 1967 May to December 1968 January to December 1969 January to November 1970 March, April 1974 October 1975 May, December 1976 January to December 1977 March, May to December 1978 January, February, April, May, July to December 1979 July to December 1980 January to May 1984 July 1987 June 1992 December 1993 November to December 1994 January to September -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:05:43 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:05:43 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <44775A0F.4020804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> <44775A0F.4020804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/26/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > Agreed. 100%, if I see GPL, I dive right in. Otherwise, it takes too > much time to read a license -- I'd rather search for an alternative > GPL'ed equivalent, regardless of functionality unless it's really > terrible or lacking. And it goes without saying, of course, that you can hack the source of OSS easily. Warmly wishing that Skype didn't blink so often because of missed instant messages, Jason :-) -- Firefox: the browser you can trust. http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:19:30 2006 From: al-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Alex Marandon) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 00:19:30 +0200 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <44775A0F.4020804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> <44775A0F.4020804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060526221930.GA4780@alpage.org> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:42:07PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Agreed. 100%, if I see GPL, I dive right in. Otherwise, it takes too > much time to read a license (...) GPL is very long compared to BSD or MIT licenses! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:24:32 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:24:32 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <20060526221930.GA4780-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> <44775A0F.4020804@utoronto.ca> <20060526221930.GA4780@alpage.org> Message-ID: <44778020.4020900@uoguelph.ca> Alex Marandon wrote: > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:42:07PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Agreed. 100%, if I see GPL, I dive right in. Otherwise, it takes too >> much time to read a license (...) > > GPL is very long compared to BSD or MIT licenses! I believe you missed the point; I think he was saying that there is no need to read the GPL since he can already trust it. Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:25:58 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:25:58 -0400 Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm trying to get reduce my hoard. So I'm getting rid of my > accumulation of Scientific Americans. > > These are from the good old days of the magazine when many of the > articles were actually written by people doing the work described. > Many with "Mathematical Games" by Martin Gardiner. SciAm published a column (since discontinued) called "Amateur Scientist", detailing DIY experiments. One cool thing I discovered this week is that all the columns from the 1920s to the late 1990s have been put on CD - and its available at the public library. Oh... and I am trying to reduce my hoard of stuff as well. That is why I like having this material in a digital format. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:26:57 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:26:57 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <20060526221930.GA4780-MId880lrZqodnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1f13df280605261201w4653fa4q6b44029b47850881@mail.gmail.com> <44775A0F.4020804@utoronto.ca> <20060526221930.GA4780@alpage.org> Message-ID: <447780B1.4000509@utoronto.ca> Alex Marandon wrote: > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:42:07PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Agreed. 100%, if I see GPL, I dive right in. Otherwise, it takes too >> much time to read a license (...) > > GPL is very long compared to BSD or MIT licenses! Right, but read it once and you never have to again (until GPL3 that is). As long as something says it is GPL no reading necessary. Same goes for BSD etc. -- any well known license falls into the same read once category in my mind i.e. Creative Commons share-alike etc. I do agree that it is substantially longer compared to BSD though :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:30:36 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:30:36 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video > files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked > the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this > command: > > wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ Gathering further info online, I think in this particular case I am limited to using wget to download the files via a direct link one-at-a-time. No big problem... I wonder why this video/ directory doesn't have an index.html file, though... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:34:28 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:34:28 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44778274.1010707@utoronto.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 5/26/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video >> files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked >> the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this >> command: >> >> wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > Gathering further info online, I think in this particular case I am > limited to using wget to download the files via a direct link > one-at-a-time. No big problem... I wonder why this video/ directory > doesn't have an index.html file, though... You could make a list of the files in your own index.html file and then use wget couldn't you? Save a little time even if you have to gather the url's manually. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:49:46 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 May 2006, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 5/26/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video >> files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked >> the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this >> command: >> >> wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > Gathering further info online, I think in this particular case I am > limited to using wget to download the files via a direct link > one-at-a-time. No big problem... I wonder why this video/ directory > doesn't have an index.html file, though... Either through an oversight or to prevent people doing what you are trying to do. ;) If you have a list of the files, why not put them in a script? list=( axxxx220k.rm bxxxx220k.rm cxxxx220k.rm dxxxx220k.rm ..... ) for f in "${list[@]}" do wget "http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/$f" done -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 22:56:53 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:56:53 -0400 Subject: cups and my network printer In-Reply-To: References: <1148612280.6215.15.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1148684213.7863.23.camel@gandalf> CC'ed as requested On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 13:13 -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 5/25/06, Paul King wrote: > > Thanks to Jason Spiro for a suggestion I haven't thought of. > My pleasure. > > > [snip] > > There is a tool called "cupsdconf" which tells me "Unable to retrieve > > configuation file from CUPS server." It tells me that I may not have > > permission to access these files. It also tells me this when I am root. > > You are on Debian? Yes. Sarge (stable). > Is CUPS installed and running? Installed, but it doesn't seem to be running. > > Try these. What do you get? > > ps aux | grep cups | grep -v grep Nothing. > sudo /etc/init.d/cupsys status Usage: /etc/init.d/cupsd {start|stop|restart|force-reload} It doesn't seem as if "status" is on the parameter list for cupsd. Starting cupsd again (/etc/init.d/cupsys start) results in no process being started, and ps aux (as above) does not show "cups" at all. > firefox http://localhost:631 > nmap localhost > > Please CC me on all replies. > Cheers, > Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 23:09:15 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:09:15 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148684955.7863.35.camel@gandalf> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 16:15 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I am trying out wget to do unattended downloads by attempting to > retrieve a series of video files, but it fails because it first tries > to download the index.html file which - in this particular case - the > directory does not have. > > The situation: > > If I point Firefox to http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ I > get a blank page... I take this to mean there is no index.html file at > this location? > You got a blank because more than likely the file was actually a directory, causing wget to give up. To do systematic downloads you have two choices: either download specific files, or mirror the entire site. I don't know of an "in-between" solution, and I have done both. I have downloaded specific files over wget in a systematic way in order to get, say things like MP3s of radio simulcasts of programs I like to hear/play frequently. For those, I write a perl script, and keep the site and path in one string, and for the specific filename, I only vary the changeable parts of the string by listing them in an array. I invoke wget on the string as part of a "system ();" command. You can do the same things in bash without using a system command; it's just that dealing with arrays a more of a bother if they involve counting (another one of mine does). > If I use wget to download a single video file from this location: > > wget \ http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ocw-7.012-lec-mit-10250-22oct2004-1000-220k.rm > > ...it works as expected. > > But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video > files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked > the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this > command: You need to make a list, using specific filenames. I don't know of any truly automated ways to do this; just mildly clever ways that attempt to cut down the work, such as downloading a file list, cutting it down in vi to the ones I want, then reading this list into an array (this is easy in BASH). wget with a wildcard will cause the shell to fill the wildcard with all of the files it can find --- at YOUR end of the connection. Then, of course, it is not going to find anything to match at the other end. > > wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > > ...which returns the following error... > > --16:10:53-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ > => `index.html' > Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 > Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found > 16:10:53 ERROR 404: Not Found. > > How do I manage to setup wget to ignore the fact that there is no > index.html at this location, and just download the *.rm files I > requested? wget would be a perfect tool for downloading a series of > files like this unattended vs. downloading each file by hand > one-by-one... Thanks in advance for any help. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 23:22:43 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:22:43 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <44778274.1010707-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24@mail.gmail.com> <44778274.1010707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261622q16d82739ra224da729c49b2b2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > You could make a list of the files in your own index.html file and then > use wget couldn't you? Save a little time even if you have to gather the > url's manually. Awesome... Thanks! Somehow in checking out wget, I overlooked the option that you could direct it to a local file. I just cut-and-pasted the URLs into a plain text file and ran 'wget -i ' - its downloading away right now. Sweet! -- Daniel W. Armstrong ::: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com ::: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 23:25:37 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:25:37 -0400 Subject: wget In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10605261530o15df8bdbj888c24f0b3e99e24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605261625h5f464578wdd9405d86392757e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > If you have a list of the files, why not put them in a script? > > list=( > axxxx220k.rm > bxxxx220k.rm > cxxxx220k.rm > dxxxx220k.rm > ..... > ) > > for f in "${list[@]}" > do > wget "http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/$f" > done I will use this script for future downloads. Thanks Chris! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 23:49:45 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Daniel Armstrong | SciAm published a column (since discontinued) called "Amateur | Scientist", detailing DIY experiments. Yes. I remember being inspired by the one on building a laser (in one of the copies I am getting rid of). Never did buid one though. | One cool thing I discovered | this week is that all the columns from the 1920s to the late 1990s | have been put on CD - and its available at the public library. So: the one on building a laser was probably from 1966. I could still read it 40 years later. What are the chances you can read this CD in 40 years? (I cannot read my 9 track tapes from 20 years ago; I can read my punch cards and paper tape, using my eyes.) Case in point: I bought a DVD with all New Yorker magazine issues on it. But it has some kind of "security" that prevents me using it under Linux. I wonder how long such fragile software will continue to function. For example, will it work in MS Vista? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 26 23:59:27 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:59:27 -0400 Subject: Job at ExtractSystems.com Message-ID: <20060526235927.GA13158@wp.magstar.net> FYI... If you can relocate to Madison, WI, then here are 2 jobs that came my way. http://www.extractsystems.com/company/index.php?category_id=1517 -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 02:12:14 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 22:12:14 -0400 Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <4476557F.8000700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> <44764A91.1080306@alteeve.com> <200605252105.11115.scott@scottripley.com> <4476557F.8000700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0605261912y41968346j81eda9f7ea6f916f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/25/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > the culprit appears to be an instance of "horde" that i installed (to play > > with) a while ago: > > > > reference to similar issue: > > http ://jwulf.livejournal.comb/18128.html > > > > Scott > > > > P.S. > > > > with the nasty HTTP requests attached... (not that anyone is necessarily > > interested!) > > Heh, yup, that was exactly our problem, too (Horde). :p Horde+IMP is a fairly popular webmail tool... One I'm a little familiar with - are any afftected versions numbers (Horde, IMP, PHP) available - on or off-list? -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 04:02:44 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 23:02:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0605261912y41968346j81eda9f7ea6f916f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> <44764A91.1080306@alteeve.com> <200605252105.11115.scott@scottripley.com> <4476557F.8000700@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0605261912y41968346j81eda9f7ea6f916f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: hey Scott, the version i had installed appears to be: horde-3.0.5.tar.gz there's a upgrade notice on the horde site: http://www.horde.org/ Scott On Fri, 26 May 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 5/25/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Scott C. Ripley wrote: >> > the culprit appears to be an instance of "horde" that i installed (to >> play >> > with) a while ago: >> > >> > reference to similar issue: >> > http ://jwulf.livejournal.comb/18128.html >> > >> > Scott >> > >> > P.S. >> > >> > with the nasty HTTP requests attached... (not that anyone is necessarily >> > interested!) >> >> Heh, yup, that was exactly our problem, too (Horde). :p > > Horde+IMP is a fairly popular webmail tool... One I'm a little > familiar with - are any afftected versions numbers (Horde, IMP, PHP) > available - on or off-list? > > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 12:31:02 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 08:31:02 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060524044810.GA25131-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Good advice. Much of the computer business is driven by business people who have no clue or care about the fitness of computer technology for their applications. Its pathetic. Caveat emptor. Hacking a site is akin to break and enter in the physical world which may not be a bad idea but many countries don't have extradition treaties so the situation becomes much like disarming the law abiding (see: Canadian gun registry). RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 00:48 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Something that's more likely to happen to us geeks than Joe-Sixpack... > an article that discusses the pitfalls of disclosing vulnerabilities > *EVEN TO THE SITE ADMINS*... > http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/weblogs/pmeunier/policies-law/post-38/ > And don't think that it can't happen here in Canada... > - Police and courts here can be just as stupid as in the USA > > - I'm also quoting a case that happened in Britain > > - Many websites we deal with here are actually hosted in the US, so > extradition is a possibility > > His recommendations... > - don't ask, don't tell. Don't tell *ANYBODY* even about your > suspicions > > - do *NOT* "investigate further" if you have suspicions. See... > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11341 > > On December 31, 2004, Cuthbert, using an Apple laptop and Safari > > browser, became concerned that a website collecting credit card > > details for donations to the Tsunami appeal could be a phishing > > site. After making a donation, and not seeing a final confirmation > > or thank-you page, Cuthbert put ../../../ into the address line. If > > the site had been unprotected this would have allowed him to move > > up three directories. > > > > After running the two tests, at between 15.12 and 15.15 on New Year's > > Eve, Cuthbert took no further action. > *HE WAS CONVICTED* > > - If you *REALLY* *REALLY* *REALLY* know what you're doing, an > anonymizer might work. The vast majority will eventually keel in > to search warrants and subpeonas > > - If you feel that that your personal info is at risk... > - *DON'T* "investigate further" > - see a lawyer and tell him of your suspicions > - ask the lawyer to write a cease-&-desist letter, with implications > of a possible lawsuit, asking the site to stop potentially > exposing your personal info. (The best defence is a good offence) > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 13:11:11 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 09:11:11 -0400 Subject: The *REAL* reason Dell insists on Windows on its PCs Message-ID: <20060527131111.GA11915@waltdnes.org> http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/?articleID=4728 > Dell and Google spokespeople have so far declined to comment on > details of the agreement, but according to Bloomberg.com an unnamed > source says Google will pay Dell a fee for every PC that is shipped > with Googles software. That's right Google will *PAY* Dell to load its software. And so will Symantec (90-day free trial anti-virus) as will various other outfits. In the final analysis, Dell probably makes more from promotional loads than it pays to Microsoft for OEM Windows. In the consumer market, with razor-thin margins, every additional dollar helps. Dell doesn't care if you wipe Windows and install a real OS on the day you get your new PC. Dell still gets its money from the outfits who ask for their software to be loaded on your PC. And Microsoft can honestly tell the us DOJ that it is no longer strong-arming Dell to load Windows on all its PCs. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 13:20:52 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 16:20:52 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <1148733062.4211.17.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Good advice. Much of the computer business is driven by business people > who have no clue or care about the fitness of computer technology for > their applications. Its pathetic. Caveat emptor. Hacking a site is akin > to break and enter in the physical world which may not be a bad idea but > many countries don't have extradition treaties so the situation becomes > much like disarming the law abiding (see: Canadian gun registry). > RickT Sending a HTML query of any kind, to an open html port, using characters from the approved character set, and of acceptable length and format, is a valid query and a valid use of the HTML protocol. Prosecution or even suspecting individuals who use such legal (in the HTML sense) queries for ANYTHING, ANYWHERE is morally equivalent with the prosecution and punishment of individuals for looking at a public billboard. This kind of prosecution is in fact performed, in countries like China, some asian, african, and south american (and now north american and european?) countries and other Elbonian so-called republics. Orwell would have been proud of this. I have voted with my feet before, and this kind of thing happening where I live, would prompt me to consider that again. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 13:23:57 2006 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 09:23:57 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <200605261049.17950.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Jason Shein wrote: > This is currently restricted to US only, but us Canadians can access the files > from here: > http://picasa.google.com.nyud.net:8080/linux/ > > This runs by using wine internally, but they modified the code to fix several > performance & bug issues. Well one positive review here, seems to performed pretty well on my older laptop running ubuntu. Personally I am hoping SketchUp is coming soon :), they already ported it to OS X so can't be too long now ... SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 14:56:40 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 10:56:40 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <1148733062.4211.17.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >Much of the computer business is driven by business people who have no clue or care about the fitness of computer technology for their applications. Its pathetic. > It's also a sign of the still immature nature of IT. Users of technology are often exploited by "solution providers" who don't finish the job (either to lowball the cost, or because they don't really know how to do it all and just improvise). That's not an indictment of the clients, who don't know any better until it's too late. It's an indictment of the IT "profession" that they are forced to trust, which exists without ethical standards. Computer technicians are less accountable for the quality and honesty of their work than taxi drivers, real estate agents or auto mechanics. What's pathetic is that IT design, support and maintenance isn't really a profession, it isn't even up to the level of being a "trade". Of course, many IT vendors like things this way because accountability would expose them. >Hacking a site is akin to break and enter in the physical world > Exactly. Simply because a store manager forgets to lock the door at night doesn't give you the right to enter and help yourself; it's still theft. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 15:43:47 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 11:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: wget In-Reply-To: <1148684955.7863.35.camel@gandalf> References: <61e9e2b10605261315x1fb7fb9dx4ecda791cee0ccd5@mail.gmail.com> <1148684955.7863.35.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: | From: Paul King | On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 16:15 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: | To do systematic downloads you have two choices: either download | specific files, or mirror the entire site. I don't know of an | "in-between" solution, and I have done both. wget is a horribly complicated and poorly described program. To figure out how to use wget, it helps to have some conceptual framework. - wget does http and ftp - the ftp protocol has a "dir" command so it is possible to find all the files in an ftpable tree (unless games are being played). - the http protocol does not have a dir command. The only way to attempt to find everything is to walk every link. - the http protocol does not just deal with trees: some URLs are actually queries. There can even be an infinite number of apparently distinct queries. So walking every link is potentially dangerous and useless. - Does "every link" include URLs not extensions of the initial URL? Surely it does, but how far do you go? The whole web? Only this site? There is no single correct answer. I don't actually know what wget does. - put another way, + FTP sites conventionally contain trees of files with a standard way of finding files that are intended to be found. They may, in fact, be DAGs (i.e. with links but not cycles) without causing big problems. + HTTP sites have no similar expectations. So traversing them is not guaranteed to work. Some other factoids: - traditionally FTP file names are suitable for any file system (including tops10), so spaces, question marks, accented characters, etc. are not found there. - http "file names" (URLs) can contain a lot of wierd stuff. Shell scripts often break when they hit these oddities. - wget with a simple wildcard only works with FTP. Note that the wildcard is to be expanded on the other system. + ok: wget ftp://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/*.rm + better: wget 'ftp://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/*.rm' + no: wget http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/*.rm - wget treats 'http://x' differently from 'http://x/'! In particular, the --no-parent flag would download http://y if you used the first form and not if you used the second. - some sites have robots.txt to stop robots accessing their stuff. wget only ignores robots.txt if you use -erobots=off - I find --mirror useful. I don't fully understand it, but I definitely use --no-parent with it. Otherwise it has a tendency to go wild. - I always use -N so that timestamps are set usefully. (This is redundant when --mirror is used.) - my firewall only allows passive_ftp (and only outbound). So I have a .wgetrc file with the line: passive_ftp = on - If you want to be selective when mirroring, --accept or --reject might do the trick (I've not tried them). If you use them, subsequent mirrorings probably must do more work (i.e. refetching files that were not saved just so that all the links get walked). | I have downloaded specific files over wget in a systematic way in order | to get, say things like MP3s of radio simulcasts of programs I like to | hear/play frequently. For those, I write a perl script, and keep the | site and path in one string, and for the specific filename, I only vary | the changeable parts of the string by listing them in an array. That way you avoid the automated discovery problem that I've talked about. | On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 16:15 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: | > If I use wget to download a single video file from this location: | > | > wget \ http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ocw-7.012-lec-mit-10250-22oct2004-1000-220k.rm | > | > ...it works as expected. Not too surprising, but good to know. | > | > But I would like to know how to use wget to download *all* the video | > files of a certain compression size with a single command. I checked | > the manpage and used the "-A" option to specify a filetype, using this | > command: | > | > wget -A "*220k.rm" http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ | > | > ...which returns the following error... | > | > --16:10:53-- http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/ | > => `index.html' | > Resolving ocw.mit.edu... 209.123.81.89, 209.123.81.96 | > Connecting to ocw.mit.edu|209.123.81.89|:80... connected. | > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found | > 16:10:53 ERROR 404: Not Found. | > | > How do I manage to setup wget to ignore the fact that there is no | > index.html at this location, and just download the *.rm files I | > requested? wget would be a perfect tool for downloading a series of | > files like this unattended vs. downloading each file by hand | > one-by-one... Thanks in advance for any help. Go back to the framework I mentioned. If there is no http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/7/7.012/f04/video/index then how is wget to find a starting point from which it can walk every link? Can you find a page that lists all the files? If you point wget at that AND suitably constrain wget (that's tricky!), you might be able to get what you want. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 16:41:25 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 12:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The *REAL* reason Dell insists on Windows on its PCs In-Reply-To: <20060527131111.GA11915-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060527131111.GA11915@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060527164125.71918.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Walter Dnes wrote: > http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/?articleID=4728 > > > Dell and Google spokespeople have so far declined > to comment on > > details of the agreement, but according to > Bloomberg.com an unnamed > > source says Google will pay Dell a fee for every > PC that is shipped > > with Googles software. > > That's right Google will *PAY* Dell to load its > software. And so will > Symantec (90-day free trial anti-virus) as will > various other outfits. > In the final analysis, Dell probably makes more from > promotional loads > than it pays to Microsoft for OEM Windows. In the > consumer market, with > razor-thin margins, every additional dollar helps. Yes. Another sort of example, when I worked for Internet Direct (now part of Look Communications), the original dial-up modem pool was using US Robotics desktop modems. The reason being that my boss' best estimate was those modems were going out the door from USR at their cost, the profit comming from the AOL, Compuserve, etc., etc. stuff that was packaged in with the modem. Even after Internet Direct went to rack mount hardware you could find drawers full of 1.44 MB floppy disks and some CDs left over from those packages. Neat in a way, one modest size local ISP letting other monster foreign ISPs lower thier costs :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 16:46:12 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 12:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50699.207.188.64.136.1148748372.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> A collection of the older Amateur Scientist columns is still available in the book by the same name. It makes fascinating reading. Dunno if this is in the book, but in one of the Amateur Scientist columns there was a description of a home-made cyclotron. (Just the thing for a relaxing evening of generating rare-earth molecules!) The vacuum pump was adapted from a refrigerator compressor. As a teenager at the time, it impressed me with the idea that ingenuity makes almost anything possible. Logic enthusiasts will want to check out column describing a mechanical mouse that solved a maze - with the logic implemented by relays. P. > | From: Daniel Armstrong > > | SciAm published a column (since discontinued) called "Amateur > | Scientist", detailing DIY experiments. > > Yes. I remember being inspired by the one on building a laser (in one > of the copies I am getting rid of). Never did buid one though. > > | One cool thing I discovered > | this week is that all the columns from the 1920s to the late 1990s > | have been put on CD - and its available at the public library. > > So: the one on building a laser was probably from 1966. I could still > read it 40 years later. What are the chances you can read this CD in > 40 years? (I cannot read my 9 track tapes from 20 years ago; I can > read my punch cards and paper tape, using my eyes.) > > Case in point: I bought a DVD with all New Yorker magazine issues on > it. But it has some kind of "security" that prevents me using it > under Linux. I wonder how long such fragile software will continue to > function. For example, will it work in MS Vista? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 16:59:58 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 12:59:58 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1148749198.4203.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I suspect the kind of prosecution you're mentioning pre-supposes a class of citizen who 'inherently' assumes priority over others thorough birth, political position, power gained illegally through force/theft/beating the legal system. etc. (money). Government in general seem to be ignorant of what is "going on" in the computer industry weather its the patent office or law enforcement. As a citizen of Canada where else can I go to escape the corruption brought on by large computer companies? I think education is a key tool to bring about some sense of rationality to the consumer and business allowing a level playing field for participants. Many unemployed computer programmers are needlessly out of work due to monopolistic practices of corrupt corporations and law enforcement which selectively apply the law. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 16:20 +0300, Peter wrote: > Sending a HTML query of any kind, to an open html port, using characters > from the approved character set, and of acceptable length and format, is > a valid query and a valid use of the HTML protocol. Prosecution or even > suspecting individuals who use such legal (in the HTML sense) queries > for ANYTHING, ANYWHERE is morally equivalent with the prosecution and > punishment of individuals for looking at a public billboard. This kind > of prosecution is in fact performed, in countries like China, some > asian, african, and south american (and now north american and > european?) countries and other Elbonian so-called republics. Orwell > would have been proud of this. I have voted with my feet before, and > this kind of thing happening where I live, would prompt me to consider > that again. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 17:00:57 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 13:00:57 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable Message-ID: Hi, If I have debian unstable installed, could I set up my sources.list to ONLY check STABLE sources? Would this cause any problems? I'm wondering if this would be a way to ensure less possibility of updates "breaking" anything. Or are there dangers in doing this? Thanks! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 17:17:27 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 20:17:27 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <1148749198.4203.11.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148749198.4203.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I suspect the kind of prosecution you're mentioning pre-supposes a class > of citizen who 'inherently' assumes priority over others thorough birth, > political position, power gained illegally through force/theft/beating > the legal system. etc. (money). Yes. They are called 'those who are more equal than others' (paraphrasing a certain novel). Incidentally, I doubt if anything would have happened, if the owners of the site that was 'visoted' in the original article, would have been owned by a nongovernmental private firm (instead of BT). Since I was speaking about who is 'more equal than others'. Inequality in the 'speed' of processing of certain legal and business proceedings is one of the signs of a country where those who are more equal than others, are much more so. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 17:54:26 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 13:54:26 -0400 Subject: OT Michael Geist Lecture on TVO Message-ID: <44789252.8080504@utoronto.ca> http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?bigideas -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 18:03:35 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 14:03:35 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44789477.8070408@utoronto.ca> Yes you can, but downgrading packages is a messy process. I had to that ever since xorg broke the mach64 driver. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 18:17:11 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 14:17:11 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <447897A7.40108@utoronto.ca> bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, > > If I have debian unstable installed, could I set up my sources.list to > ONLY check STABLE sources? Would this cause any problems? I'm > wondering if this would be a way to ensure less possibility of updates > "breaking" anything. Or are there dangers in doing this? > Disregard previous answer. Debian stable only gets security updates. But you're running Debian unstable and it's hard to downgrade to stable. Stable may not have the packages you want (xorg for example). You may want to check the topic on #debian on irc.debian.org for serious breakage before doing an apt-get upgrade. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 27 19:48:01 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 15:48:01 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <1148749198.4203.11.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1148759281.4236.0.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Its nice to see I'm not the only twisted one on the list server... On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 20:17 +0300, Peter wrote: > On Sat, 27 May 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > I suspect the kind of prosecution you're mentioning pre-supposes a class > > of citizen who 'inherently' assumes priority over others thorough birth, > > political position, power gained illegally through force/theft/beating > > the legal system. etc. (money). > > Yes. They are called 'those who are more equal than others' > (paraphrasing a certain novel). Incidentally, I doubt if anything would > have happened, if the owners of the site that was 'visoted' in the > original article, would have been owned by a nongovernmental private > firm (instead of BT). Since I was speaking about who is 'more equal than > others'. Inequality in the 'speed' of processing of certain legal and > business proceedings is one of the signs of a country where those who > are more equal than others, are much more so. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 00:59:52 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 20:59:52 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605271759o692433cfre7a721f76d7c8877@mail.gmail.com> On 5/27/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > If I have debian unstable installed, could I set up my sources.list to > ONLY check STABLE sources? Would this cause any problems? I'm > wondering if this would be a way to ensure less possibility of updates > "breaking" anything. Or are there dangers in doing this? Something perhaps to consider in a similar vein... I am running a hard-disk install of Kanotix (essentially debian-unstable) and after running apt-get update, apt-get -u dist-upgrade today discovered that arts sound was busted in KDE. A quick look in the online forums revealed I wasn't alone with this problem. The problem package was identified and the solution was to simply roll back to a previous version, like so: # cd /var/cache/apt/archives/ # dpkg -i libasound2_1.0.11-4_i386.deb I also learned about "pinning" a package to a certain version if you want to hold off for a bit on upgrades, by editing /etc/apt/preferences: Package: libasound2 Pin: version 1.0.11-4 Pin-Priority: 1001 Package: * Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 500 It worked, too. Fixing something that an upgrade rendered broken. However, this was only one troublesome package - I imagine things could get quite a bit messier if several packages were broken and many dependencies were involved. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 01:11:06 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 21:11:06 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 09:23:57AM -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote > Personally I am hoping SketchUp is coming soon :), they already ported > it to OS X so can't be too long now ... I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the stuff we do depends on geography). It's almost getting to the point where you'll see... - bottle of sun tan lotion; $20 - blanket spread out on your roof; $15 - photos of you nude sunbathing on your roof, showing up on Google Earth... priceless -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 01:11:11 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 21:11:11 -0400 Subject: free as in freedom Message-ID: <61e9e2b10605271811o58c73335ie23beedb618260cd@mail.gmail.com> Interesting book about Richard Stallman, entitled "Free as in Freedom" and available for reading online: http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 02:16:12 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:16:12 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <20060528011106.GA12935-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <447907EC.8070702@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop > and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the > stuff we do depends on geography). I agree. The one app that I miss from my Windows days is Google Earth. It is one awesome app. Reportedly though there is a Linux version in the works. Let us hope that the rumour mill is correct and that is true. Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 03:56:21 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:56:21 -0500 Subject: free as in freedom In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605271811o58c73335ie23beedb618260cd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605271811o58c73335ie23beedb618260cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44791F65.8020909@zee4.com> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Interesting book about Richard Stallman, entitled "Free as in Freedom" > and available for reading online: > > http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ > -- > I've had this one on my bookshelf for a few years, nice to see it's available on-line now as well. With schools now apparently teaching grade-school kids RIAA-approved ethics lessons, this is a counter-point worth reading. Zoltan -- www.YYZTech.ca Toronto talks tech. www.Dine.TO Toronto's premier restaurant search engine. Get Thunderbird -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 05:49:30 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:49:30 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447868A8.9050006-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:56:40AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > What's pathetic is that IT design, support and maintenance isn't really > a profession, it isn't even up to the level of being a "trade". Of > course, many IT vendors like things this way because accountability > would expose them. A couple of points... 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are there for these languages? 2) Be careful what you wish for. A "profession" means that only "certified professionals" can practise it, e.g. medicine. I remember back in the early 80's how some greybeards reacted angrily to the thought that snotty-nosed kids would be able to program on their "toy computers". The old farts were *DEMANDING* that all programmers be licenced. I don't know whether you'll laugh or cry, but take a look at http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.09.html#subj5 back in 1991. That was about a bill that would require all "software engineers" in New Jersey to be licenced, for a *VERY WIDE* definition of "software engineer". The initial draft would've required every secretary or clerk who created a Word or Excel macro to be licenced as an engineer. Fortunately, the bill was eventually laughed out of the legislature. Now imagine back in 1992, that it was illegal for a university student and a bunch of snotty-nosed kids to collaborate over the net to write a new OS. And even licenced programmers who attempted to do so would've faced discipline for "programming malpractice", because they dared to use a macro-kernel, when "everybody knows" that a micro kernel is the holy grail. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:04:07 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 09:04:07 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <447907EC.8070702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> <447907EC.8070702@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 May 2006, Erebus wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop >> and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the >> stuff we do depends on geography). > I agree. The one app that I miss from my Windows days is Google Earth. It is > one awesome app. Reportedly though there is a Linux version in the works. Let > us hope that the rumour mill is correct and that is true. I don't think that you will have to wait too long. Google is at war with m$ and they need an alternate platform like they need air. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:04:51 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 09:04:51 +0300 (IDT) Subject: free as in freedom In-Reply-To: <44791F65.8020909-KdxWn004MjY@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605271811o58c73335ie23beedb618260cd@mail.gmail.com> <44791F65.8020909@zee4.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 May 2006, Zoltan wrote: > I've had this one on my bookshelf for a few years, nice to see it's available > on-line now as well. With schools now apparently teaching grade-school kids > RIAA-approved ethics lessons, this is a counter-point worth reading. What schools are teaching RIAA-approved ethics ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:10:18 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 09:10:18 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060528054930.GB13182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:56:40AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > >> What's pathetic is that IT design, support and maintenance isn't really >> a profession, it isn't even up to the level of being a "trade". Of >> course, many IT vendors like things this way because accountability >> would expose them. ;-) > A couple of points... > > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages > currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, > PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are there for > these languages? Python and Ruby (and Perl and Tcl/Tk and C and most other 'common' languages) predate Java by at least 10 years and before they became web scripting languages they spent some time in the hands of scientists and graduate students who took out some of the rougher edges, and many of the ugly bugs. Neither Java, nor Javascript had this polishing session, or the time. And it shows. Oh, and Php. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:11:33 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:11:33 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060528054930.GB13182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <7BD163DA-6D69-44DF-8BFB-43E5AAF762A9@tri-coder.org> > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there > isn't > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" > languages > currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, > PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are > there for > these languages? Can we really compare the age of a programming language to the age of the profession? I see the programming languages as 'tools of the trade.' They may have their own quirks, advantages and disadvantages, but there is a lot of overlap. I say that even people that were developing for Fortran or programming with punch cards were people that developed software development/engineering/design/ programming as a profession. Things like UML and newer scripting languages, are just additional tools in the arsenal, and are part of the on-going development/evolution of the trade. One could argue that IT is a younger trade than Software Creation (programming/design/ engineering/etc). > 2) Be careful what you wish for. A "profession" means that only > "certified professionals" can practise it, e.g. medicine. I remember > back in the early 80's how some greybeards reacted angrily to the > thought that snotty-nosed kids would be able to program on their "toy > computers". The old farts were *DEMANDING* that all programmers be > licenced. I don't know whether you'll laugh or cry, but take a > look at > http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.09.html#subj5 back in 1991. That > was > about a bill that would require all "software engineers" in New Jersey > to be licenced, for a *VERY WIDE* definition of "software engineer". > The initial draft would've required every secretary or clerk who > created > a Word or Excel macro to be licenced as an engineer. Fortunately, the > bill was eventually laughed out of the legislature. > > Now imagine back in 1992, that it was illegal for a university > student and a bunch of snotty-nosed kids to collaborate over the > net to > write a new OS. And even licenced programmers who attempted to do so > would've faced discipline for "programming malpractice", because they > dared to use a macro-kernel, when "everybody knows" that a micro > kernel > is the holy grail. It's hard to compare it to medicine and law to IT/Software Creation, because they are not really things you could take up as hobbies. You're not going to perform a heart transplant over the weekend, just for kicks. Whereas you can program a Perl script to back-up your files and no one will care. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:16:12 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:16:12 -0400 Subject: free as in freedom In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10605271811o58c73335ie23beedb618260cd@mail.gmail.com> <44791F65.8020909@zee4.com> Message-ID: <1D61F284-0DE9-4227-A09E-32523B5E99B5@tri-coder.org> I think that comment was meant to apply to colleges/universities which have come under fire due to students being the heaviest file traders (or is it largest demographic of file traders?) The universities just cave into the pressure and try to 'educate' students that file trading is wrong. Some have even made purchasing a subscription to those legit music services as part of tuition (or maybe it was that they were considering it?). This really applies to the States though. Brandon On May 28, 2006, at 2:04 AM, Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 May 2006, Zoltan wrote: > >> I've had this one on my bookshelf for a few years, nice to see >> it's available on-line now as well. With schools now apparently >> teaching grade-school kids RIAA-approved ethics lessons, this is a >> counter-point worth reading. > > What schools are teaching RIAA-approved ethics ? > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 06:54:56 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:54:56 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <7BD163DA-6D69-44DF-8BFB-43E5AAF762A9-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <7BD163DA-6D69-44DF-8BFB-43E5AAF762A9@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: <20060528065456.GB27222@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, May 28, 2006 at 02:11:33AM -0400, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > > It's hard to compare it to medicine and law to IT/Software Creation, > because they are not really things you could take up as hobbies. > You're not going to perform a heart transplant over the weekend, just > for kicks. Whereas you can program a Perl script to back-up your > files and no one will care. Sure you can compare them. Writing a perl script to back up their files is not, by itself, sufficient qualification to trust someone to write the controller code for a nuclear reactor. Putting a bandage on a child's cut and blowing their nose is not, by itself, sufficient qualification to trust someone to perform a heart transplant. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 09:56:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 12:56:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: why GPL is important Message-ID: >From a lecture from: http://oops.editme.com/breakthrough (the first one). Skip to minute 46 if impatient, and watch 1-2 minutes. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 15:37:53 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 11:37:53 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060528054930.GB13182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1148830674.4210.46.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Case in point. Computer Dealer News Volume 22, Issue 7 May 12, 2006 "Canada's Channel Voice for IT since 1985" Leafing through... Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft, Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft, Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft, Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft,Microsoft... ...Full page advertisement page 9: Field Guide to the Microsoft Partner Program Chapter No. 4 Whoever Has The Most Skills, Wins. (I'm not sure what they win likely a cupie doll or a mini flashlight with a old style cheapie battery) Drawing of man and woman in business clothing (tie, skirt etc.) fishing in a stream (no word of a lie) with a net...and there are fish in the net... Another drawing of a man in white shirt and tie laying out survival camping gear on a blanket seemingly in the woods... So what do I interpret? Well I look at this based on what I know of Microsoft's manipulation of the masses, expert financing and logistic capability that if I don't team up with Microsoft I won't have a prayer in succeeding without their partnership. But I know from past experience that Microsoft is a back stabbing monopolist in the market place that creates sub standard product (kind of like the Volkswagen was to cars way back when). Knowing that Microsoft intends to continue to dominate the market (we'll ignore Google since it's still more promise than reality) what do I do? Sell Linux? To who? How? Why would a manager of an office with 25 users want Linux? What the hell is Linux anyways? Who supports Linux? What about that fad application (see: push technology) will it run? What about my free time on weekends? Vista is actually here (the toilet paper) ...seems it'll to everything including wiping your butt. see: htt://www.TorontoNUI.ca While we don't have a century of programming languages we do in fact have a significant amount of legal and marketing experience to sell 'anything to anyone' as long as the buyer has the perception the product will titillate and/or calm insecurity. Prostitution is far older than bricklaying or metalworking. The core issue is not certification. The core issue is being sold a bill of goods that is a work in progress. No guarantee. You get the perception of ease of use while the reality is another story, clueless support, complexity in the product which is spiraling out of control, aggressive developer which will sue you. Imagine going to Canadian Tire and having lawyer following you out of the store attempting to verify if that Bar B Q you just bought is being used by more than one family...give me a break. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 01:49 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:56:40AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > > > What's pathetic is that IT design, support and maintenance isn't really > > a profession, it isn't even up to the level of being a "trade". Of > > course, many IT vendors like things this way because accountability > > would expose them. > > A couple of points... > > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages > currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, > PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are there for > these languages? > > 2) Be careful what you wish for. A "profession" means that only > "certified professionals" can practise it, e.g. medicine. I remember > back in the early 80's how some greybeards reacted angrily to the > thought that snotty-nosed kids would be able to program on their "toy > computers". The old farts were *DEMANDING* that all programmers be > licenced. I don't know whether you'll laugh or cry, but take a look at > http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.09.html#subj5 back in 1991. That was > about a bill that would require all "software engineers" in New Jersey > to be licenced, for a *VERY WIDE* definition of "software engineer". > The initial draft would've required every secretary or clerk who created > a Word or Excel macro to be licenced as an engineer. Fortunately, the > bill was eventually laughed out of the legislature. > > Now imagine back in 1992, that it was illegal for a university > student and a bunch of snotty-nosed kids to collaborate over the net to > write a new OS. And even licenced programmers who attempted to do so > would've faced discipline for "programming malpractice", because they > dared to use a macro-kernel, when "everybody knows" that a micro kernel > is the holy grail. > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 17:12:04 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:12:04 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10605271759o692433cfre7a721f76d7c8877-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605271759o692433cfre7a721f76d7c8877@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/27/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > Something perhaps to consider in a similar vein... I am running a > hard-disk install of Kanotix (essentially debian-unstable) and after > running apt-get update, apt-get -u dist-upgrade today discovered that > arts sound was busted in KDE. > > A quick look in the online forums revealed I wasn't alone with this > problem. The problem package was identified and the solution was to > simply roll back to a previous version, like so: > > # cd /var/cache/apt/archives/ > # dpkg -i libasound2_1.0.11-4_i386.deb > > I also learned about "pinning" a package to a certain version if you > want to hold off for a bit on upgrades, by editing > /etc/apt/preferences: > > Package: libasound2 > Pin: version 1.0.11-4 > Pin-Priority: 1001 > > Package: * > Pin: release a=unstable > Pin-Priority: 500 > > It worked, too. Fixing something that an upgrade rendered broken. > However, this was only one troublesome package - I imagine things > could get quite a bit messier if several packages were broken and many > dependencies were involved. Daniel, thanks for the info! I'm running a HD install of Kanotix as well, and had the same issue. I also noticed a few font issues after a couple of upgrades (sizes as well as anti-aliasing ugliness), also a removable drive automounting problem. The rollback and pinning process is something I'll make note of! (So I guess I'll stick with unstable.) -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 17:42:11 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: internet cafes - thanks In-Reply-To: <3635.66.163.0.56.1148407239.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060522152227.4671.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3635.66.163.0.56.1148407239.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 May 2006, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > anyway, it seems printing is an issue but i guess it's easier to provide > wireless access, than trying to also provide wireless printing, which I > guess can be more expensive, due to extra configuration. Actually no. One of the major difference between the Internet and the networks that existed earlier is that the Internet seperated the data link layer and the network layer allowing for the transport of Internet data over different types of physical networks. Specifically, once the network interface is up and the routing is configured the underlying network hardware is largely irrelevant. If they can set up network printing for a wired network they can do it for a wireless network. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 22:24:36 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 18:24:36 -0400 Subject: internet cafes - thanks In-Reply-To: References: <1813.66.163.0.56.1148300027.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <20060522152227.4671.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3635.66.163.0.56.1148407239.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <16F28295-87A0-4805-A1DC-D40F28D366C9@tri-coder.org> Most places would probably opt for the 'wireless networking built-in' printer because of the perception that setup would be easier. It's not that wireless networking is harder, but I haven't heard of many internet cafes supporting networked printing at all. (Granted I haven't been to too many internet cafes myself) What I have seen is wireless access for your laptop, accompanied by a kiosk that is hooked up to a printer. So that the kiosk can be used to print as well as surf the web, etc. Brandon On May 28, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Actually no. One of the major difference between the Internet and > the networks that existed earlier is that the Internet seperated > the data link layer and the network layer allowing for the > transport of Internet data over different types of physical networks. > > Specifically, once the network interface is up and the routing is > configured the underlying network hardware is largely irrelevant. > If they can set up network printing for a wired network they can do > it for a wireless network. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 28 23:16:37 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 23:16:37 +0000 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE Message-ID: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> Well, as many of you know, things are still not great in the printing/CUPS department, but there were some things gained in using WINE, under Debian Sarge. Applications I now have been able to run under WINE: fathom -- an math educational product used widely in Ontario schools WinOOt Version 4 -- Turing for Windows works on WINE foobar 2000 -- I think there is a Linux version of this, but the Windows one seems useable under WINE. Unfortunately, Palm's PalmDesktop could not be run under WINE. And there is no reliably-configured substitute (at least not right now). I have not tried the "standard" windows programs which nearly everyone can run, like Solitaire, but these are ones I have not heard of anyone trying successfully. It is of no surprise that WINE still cannot run the vast majority of Microsoft binaries -- at least, not the ones I have. I imagine many of these failures to be permanent. For example, I have many applications with some .dll's and .ini's on C: while the installation directory may be on e: or f:. To add further to the complexity, many installations have decided to have yet another part of their binaries coexist in a directory called "shared program files" or something like that. Without access to the registry (another headache in itself), WINE won't be able to get most applications off the ground. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 02:36:20 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 22:36:20 -0400 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1f13df280605281936p32243a8fm405d21a7f1e7eb00@mail.gmail.com> I've been using JPilot for several years now with four different Palm-based PDAs. It's an excellent product. Use apt-get or yum - it should be readily available. You may have to tinker with the setup slightly. On 5/28/06, Paul King wrote: > Unfortunately, Palm's PalmDesktop could not be run under WINE. And there > is no reliably-configured substitute (at least not right now). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 02:39:21 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 22:39:21 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060528054930.GB13182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > generation to generation. So what? There are old professions and new ones. Even air-conditioning technicians get licensed. > C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages currently in major use for new development. Again... so what? "C or Java" is like "Phillips or Robertson" -- simply a matter of what tools the practitioner chooses. Most trade licensing has nothing to do with the choice of tools so much as the ethics with which those tools are applied. > 2) Be careful what you wish for. A "profession" means that only "certified professionals" can practise it, e.g. medicine. Sure, but one need not go from one extreme to the other. A license scheme, such as used by most trades, keeps barriers to entry low while still allowing the public a way to eliminate the clearly unethical or otherwise incapable. > Now imagine back in 1992, that it was illegal for a university student and a bunch of snotty-nosed kids to collaborate over the net to write a new OS. Ah, but they didn't do so for money under contract. The lack of a license doesn't prevent you from working on your own car or your friends, but it might prevent you from charging someone else money to do it. > And even licenced programmers who attempted to do so would've faced discipline for "programming malpractice", because they dared to use a macro-kernel, when "everybody knows" that a micro kernel is the holy grail. > Malpractise applies if you promise a solution that doesn't work, causing the client damage. If you contract to provide a solution and then charge the client so that you could experiment on a method that didn't work -- without alerting the client what you were doing and when existing methods were known to work -- an accusation of malpractise might indeed be reasonable. There is a fairly easy-to-define boundary in most fields between R&D and commercial practise. I would agree with the assertion that the current IT industry's difficulty of separarating the two, to the detriment of the public, is a problem. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 06:00:10 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:00:10 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 May 2006, Paul King wrote: > I imagine many of these failures to be permanent. For example, I have > many applications with some .dll's and .ini's on C: while the > installation directory may be on e: or f:. To add further to the > complexity, many installations have decided to have yet another part of > their binaries coexist in a directory called "shared program files" or > something like that. Without access to the registry (another headache in > itself), WINE won't be able to get most applications off the ground. Wine has access to the registry. Most m$ programs do not run because they use undocumented calls and library features. These are not passed on to developers outside m$ so programs compiled by others with m$ tools mostly work. Wine is one of the most damning pieces of software for m$ in the context of nondisclosure and insufficient documentation of system and library call interfaces ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 07:15:47 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:15:47 +0300 Subject: Pinging from a remote host Message-ID: Hi all, By default, ping use the local IP address as the source IP. This work perfectly if you are fixing network problems between a local network and a remote host. Sometime though, you may need to fix a network problem between two remote hosts. The there a ping switch one can use to force ping to use a remote address as a source IP address? Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 12:12:51 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:12:51 -0400 Subject: Pinging from a remote host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <447AE543.1030306@utoronto.ca> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > By default, ping use the local IP address as the source IP. This work > perfectly if you are fixing network problems between a local network and > a remote host. Sometime though, you may need to fix a network problem > between two remote hosts. The there a ping switch one can use to force > ping to use a remote address as a source IP address? Presumably sshing into the remote host and pinging from there is out of the question? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:05:46 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 16:05:46 +0300 Subject: Pinging from a remote host In-Reply-To: <447AE543.1030306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <447AE543.1030306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Yeap for example you may not have access to the box someone reporting the problem is using. I noticed a feature like this on a Cisco router which triggered the question on whether similar facility exist on Linux boxes. Cisco call it extended ping. William On 29/05/06, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi all, > > By default, ping use the local IP address as the source IP. This work > > perfectly if you are fixing network problems between a local network and > > a remote host. Sometime though, you may need to fix a network problem > > between two remote hosts. The there a ping switch one can use to force > > ping to use a remote address as a source IP address? > > Presumably sshing into the remote host and pinging from there is out of > the > question? > > Ivan. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:22:32 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:22:32 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <447907EC.8070702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> <447907EC.8070702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200605290922.32878.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Saturday 27 May 2006 22:16, Erebus wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop > > and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the > > stuff we do depends on geography). > > I agree. The one app that I miss from my Windows days is Google Earth. > It is one awesome app. Reportedly though there is a Linux version in the > works. Let us hope that the rumour mill is correct and that is true. > > Frank in Mississauga Well Frank, you shouldn't have to wait too long: http://www.winehq.com/?issue=314#Picasa%20Port%20to%20Linux -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca On-Site Computer Services - Available 24/7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:25:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:25:39 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <200605261049.17950.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20060529132539.GA18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:49:17AM -0400, Jason Shein wrote: > This is currently restricted to US only, but us Canadians can access the files > from here: > http://picasa.google.com.nyud.net:8080/linux/ I just typed picasa into google and got a link and downloaded from there. What restriction is that? It didn't mention anything about being US only either. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:27:51 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:27:51 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <20060528011106.GA12935-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060529132751.GB18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 09:11:06PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop > and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the > stuff we do depends on geography). It's almost getting to the point > where you'll see... GoogleEarth can run with wine, although you have to jump through a few small hoops to get it installed. By the looks of it, any "native" version for linux would be doing that anyhow, so why not run it that way now? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:34:40 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled Message-ID: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >From the Globe this morning, re 'Westjet settles with Air Canada': ---------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In the spring of 2004, Air Canada hired detectives to snoop through the garbage of a WestJet co-founder, unearthing shredded documents. Air Canada later hired computer experts to electronically piece the shredded papers back together. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- After the Shah of Iran was deposed, it was reported that the Iranians were manually reassembling the shredded documents of the CIA centre there. This was claimed to tap into the Iranian skills in carpet making. However, it would obviously save the spooks a lot of time if this could be done electronically. Any ideas on this from the Knowledge? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:35:55 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:35:55 -0400 Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <200605252009.48496.scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> Message-ID: <1148909755.1749.28.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 20:09 -0400, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > hey all, > > anyone get hassled by: > - some web app is able to write to /tmp as nobody > - able to run file as nobody user (say via perl) even with noexec on the > partition (because perl simply reads/executes the file in /tmp) > > some googling suggests it's going around... with suggestions like: > - have separate /tmp partition (with noexec option on partition) > - disable certain PHP functions (via php.ini) > - (keep all your installed webapps patched/updated/etc.) > - etc. > > still a pain though... if anybody has a sure fire way to fight this... let me > know? Selinux is supposed to prevent this exact type of thing. It's complicated and needs careful crafting to make it suit web applications. In case you haven't heard of SeLinux, it's the NSA's contribution to Linux security. Essentially it's a firewall for system calls. One person who presented it to me said "There are two types of users on a Linux system. Users that can do everything, such as root, and users who can do almost everything." SElinux can control what users and applications can do. For example should you allow your httpd process to open ports other than 80 and 443? I want to start using SElinux but every chance I get, I don't have enough time. I figure it will take lots of getting used to. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:35:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:35:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060529133527.GC18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:49:45PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > So: the one on building a laser was probably from 1966. I could still > read it 40 years later. What are the chances you can read this CD in > 40 years? (I cannot read my 9 track tapes from 20 years ago; I can > read my punch cards and paper tape, using my eyes.) Given the number of devices that can read CDs, pretty good. How many devices could read tapes? Not that many. It seems every new optical drive format is maintaining compatibility with previous optical drives, so I think your CDs are going to be fine for a long time. Of course if 120mm optical drives do go out of style, I am sure someone will make a high resolution scanner where you can just scan the CD and have software read the filesystem based on the scan. :) > Case in point: I bought a DVD with all New Yorker magazine issues on > it. But it has some kind of "security" that prevents me using it > under Linux. I wonder how long such fragile software will continue to > function. For example, will it work in MS Vista? Does it require windows software to read the files? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:37:07 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:37:07 -0400 Subject: [OT] free classic Scientific American magazines In-Reply-To: <20060529133527.GC18891-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10605261525g19ce4b17rbbd32a6fb2b89d7a@mail.gmail.com> <20060529133527.GC18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060529133707.GD18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 09:35:27AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:49:45PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > So: the one on building a laser was probably from 1966. I could still > > read it 40 years later. What are the chances you can read this CD in > > 40 years? (I cannot read my 9 track tapes from 20 years ago; I can > > read my punch cards and paper tape, using my eyes.) > > Given the number of devices that can read CDs, pretty good. How many > devices could read tapes? Not that many. It seems every new optical > drive format is maintaining compatibility with previous optical drives, > so I think your CDs are going to be fine for a long time. Oh and of course being digital information, just copy it onto new media in 10 years or so, before CDs become obsolete. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:46:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:46:19 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060529134619.GE18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:00:57PM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > If I have debian unstable installed, could I set up my sources.list to > ONLY check STABLE sources? Would this cause any problems? I'm > wondering if this would be a way to ensure less possibility of updates > "breaking" anything. Or are there dangers in doing this? Well if you change your sources.list to stable when you run unstable, you won't see any updates anymore since everything in stable is older versions. You won't see any security fixes either of course. Isn't it simpler to simply stop upgrading? The end result is the same, at least for a couple of years. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 13:51:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:51:41 -0400 Subject: Pinging from a remote host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <447AFC6D.4080408@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > By default, ping use the local IP address as the source IP. This work > perfectly if you are fixing network problems between a local network and > a remote host. Sometime though, you may need to fix a network problem > between two remote hosts. The there a ping switch one can use to force > ping to use a remote address as a source IP address? > Thanks > William What would that accomplish??? Ping is used to verify a path between two hosts. Assuming you changed the source address, what would happen? At most, the replies would be sent to a host that's not expecting them. If you want a ping to appear to come from a distant host, perhaps yo should use ssh to connect to that host and ping from there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:03:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:03:57 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060528054930.GB13182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060529140357.GF18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 28, 2006 at 01:49:30AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > A couple of points... > > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages > currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, > PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are there for > these languages? Actually PHP was released publicly a few months before java. Java is only about 11 years old. C is over 30 years old. Ruby is 1993 (before java), and python is 1991. So of your list, java is the newest of all. Hardly an old language. Personally I wouldn't miss it. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:14:00 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:14:00 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: <20060529134619.GE18891-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060529134619.GE18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well if you change your sources.list to stable when you run unstable, > you won't see any updates anymore since everything in stable is older > versions. You won't see any security fixes either of course. > > Isn't it simpler to simply stop upgrading? The end result is the same, > at least for a couple of years. :) > > Len Sorensen Yeah, I guess that's true. I was not sure exactly how far behind stable was to unstable. I may just choose to upgrade selectively... being on dialup that is usually the best way anyway. I just screwed up a few things with some of the last upgrades and dist-upgrades. No one to blame but myself, as everyone is aware of the risks (small or minor as they usually are) involved in more major upgrades. I'd say I am an *intermediate* newbie... sort of like a guy that knows how to change the oil, then thinks, heck, I'll try changing the brakes, then can't put everything back together again the right way! LOL At least re-installing linux is easier than getting a whole new car... -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:18:46 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:18:46 +0300 (IDT) Subject: /tmp In-Reply-To: <1148909755.1749.28.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <200605252009.48496.scott@scottripley.com> <1148909755.1749.28.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 May 2006, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 20:09 -0400, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > >> hey all, >> >> anyone get hassled by: >> - some web app is able to write to /tmp as nobody >> - able to run file as nobody user (say via perl) even with noexec on the >> partition (because perl simply reads/executes the file in /tmp) >> >> some googling suggests it's going around... with suggestions like: >> - have separate /tmp partition (with noexec option on partition) >> - disable certain PHP functions (via php.ini) >> - (keep all your installed webapps patched/updated/etc.) >> - etc. >> >> still a pain though... if anybody has a sure fire way to fight this... let me >> know? chroot ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:23:56 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 29 May 2006 10:23:56 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447A5ED9.6020603-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > There is a fairly easy-to-define boundary in most fields between R&D and > commercial practise. I would agree with the assertion that the current > IT industry's difficulty of separarating the two, to the detriment of > the public, is a problem. The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true is as much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", I mean individuals and businesses. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:26:14 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:26:14 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Afaik reassebling shredded documents is one of the things more serious spy outfits would do, according to books. Ashes followed by mortar and pestle and mixing into a large heap looks good. As to automatic reassembly, there could be something to it. Scan the strips as is and have a computer match fractional patterns on the images probably, to find possible neighboring places, assemble these as force vectors (towards relevant parts of the same symbol) per edge of strip, then reassemble using the resulting rat's nest for placement. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 14:31:46 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:31:46 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 May 2006, Tim Writer wrote: > Evan Leibovitch writes: > >> There is a fairly easy-to-define boundary in most fields between R&D and >> commercial practise. I would agree with the assertion that the current >> IT industry's difficulty of separarating the two, to the detriment of >> the public, is a problem. > > The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true is as > much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", I mean > individuals and businesses. The way I put is, 'riding on the hot edge is bound to get your b** eventually'. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 15:01:37 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:01:37 -0400 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <54569894-44BF-438E-9135-CE65E4727112@tri-coder.org> Came across this nugget yesterday. http://www.winehq.com/pipermail/wine-devel/2006-May/047806.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 15:13:14 2006 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:13:14 -0400 Subject: Google Picasa now available for Linux In-Reply-To: <447907EC.8070702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200605261049.17950.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <22e435080605270623l426f09d4g865e5d93bd072977@mail.gmail.com> <20060528011106.GA12935@waltdnes.org> <447907EC.8070702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <447B0F8A.9010300@utoronto.ca> Erebus wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> I want Google Earth... please. I've seen it on a co-worker's desktop >> and it's the only thing that gives me Windows envy now (some of the >> stuff we do depends on geography). > I agree. The one app that I miss from my Windows days is Google Earth. > It is one awesome app. Reportedly though there is a Linux version in > the works. Let us hope that the rumour mill is correct and that is true. It is indeed true. I believe Codeweavers (the same Canadian company which did the Picasa work) is working on that one as well. There is a blocking issue relating to how wine does windowing with OpenGL and no eta, but it is a work in progress see http://www.winehq.com/?issue=314 for more details. Cheers, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 15:15:36 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:15:36 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Message-ID: <05FC8D22-DC21-4265-BC95-5ED5BFCECF9A@tri-coder.org> That may all be fine and dandy, but the public only demands 'new and exciting' when deciding to repurchase something. If I already have Microsoft Office, why do I need to purchase the newer version? These are the reasons that businesses don't work on repairing old issues. They would rather you paid for a newer version of their software every year or two. The R&D is just a way to entice you to go out and purchase the next version of the software. They can then market the 'new and improved features' of the product. It's not like the public doesn't demand stable software too. It's just that not many businesses are delivering, they are too focused on adding new features to market and getting the product out the door as soon as possible. Brandon On May 29, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Tim Writer wrote: > > The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and > true is as > much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", I mean > individuals and businesses. > > -- > tim writer > starnix inc. > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, > canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & > products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 15:24:21 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 16:24:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> I think mulder did this on the x-files once, anyway I guess this works fine for straight cut shredders, however what about cross cut shredders, this goes one step further you end up with small pieces of paper, of course, short of burning the paper you could go over the text (or parts of it) with permanent marker, then turning the page over and doing the same from the other or blank side of the page, so the text is blocked from both sides. then shred, What is described below is how some of the photo editing software works I think, the type that takes a set of images of a panorama and sticks em to gether by looking for similar features, same goes for how they put astronomy pictures together from lots of smaller images. Paul \\> > Afaik reassebling shredded documents is one of the things more serious > spy outfits would do, according to books. Ashes followed by mortar and > pestle and mixing into a large heap looks good. > > As to automatic reassembly, there could be something to it. Scan the > strips as is and have a computer match fractional patterns on the images > probably, to find possible neighboring places, assemble these as force > vectors (towards relevant parts of the same symbol) per edge of strip, > then reassemble using the resulting rat's nest for placement. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 15:28:14 2006 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:28:14 -0400 Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060529152814.GA17902@thecat.localnet> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 05:26:14PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > Afaik reassebling shredded documents is one of the things more serious > spy outfits would do, according to books. Ashes followed by mortar and > pestle and mixing into a large heap looks good. > > As to automatic reassembly, there could be something to it. Scan the > strips as is and have a computer match fractional patterns on the images > probably, to find possible neighboring places, assemble these as force > vectors (towards relevant parts of the same symbol) per edge of strip, > then reassemble using the resulting rat's nest for placement. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_shredder "Shredded documents can be reassembled even manually. ... Modern computer technology considerably speeds up the process. The strips get scanned from both sides, then the computer tries to find obvious matches, and only requires human attention when it can not reliably decide on its own. Several companies already offer commercial document reconstruction services, ... According to Robert Johnson of the National Association for Information Destruction, the demand is huge." Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 16:43:58 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 12:43:58 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Message-ID: <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> Tim Writer wrote: >The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true is as much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", I mean individuals and businesses. > > The public demands new and exciting in every field, not just IT. Beyond the relatively small segment of bleeding-edge early adopters, the public (using your definition) generally wants stuff that works, and in my experience fears change more than craves it. There are still plenty of shops still using Win98 and NT because they believe that the warts they have are less than the warts they will encounter by upgrading. OpenOffice is an example of something that's not new and exciting. It's popular now because it solves certain problems and costs less, even though it arguably has fewer features than its proprietary counterparts. That is an example of what the public is demanding. Contrast this to the tech fashion inflicted by vendors, such as the current geekism-du-jour, virtualization. This is a creation of vendors to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people -- yet Microsoft, Novell and Red Hat seem to agree that we need it. Most businesses can't keep *one* OS under control, now vendors are telling them they need to run multiple environments PLUS the supervisor system that runs it all. Most tech users aren't pushing for virtualization, or software-as-a-service, or locked cellphones, or upgrade subscription plans. These are all things that benefit vendors, who then try to market it all as end-user features and hope that either trust or dependence will close the sale. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 17:30:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:30:27 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447B24CE.8020208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060529173027.GG18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 12:43:58PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The public demands new and exciting in every field, not just IT. > > Beyond the relatively small segment of bleeding-edge early adopters, the > public (using your definition) generally wants stuff that works, and in > my experience fears change more than craves it. There are still plenty > of shops still using Win98 and NT because they believe that the warts > they have are less than the warts they will encounter by upgrading. > > OpenOffice is an example of something that's not new and exciting. It's > popular now because it solves certain problems and costs less, even > though it arguably has fewer features than its proprietary counterparts. > That is an example of what the public is demanding. > > Contrast this to the tech fashion inflicted by vendors, such as the > current geekism-du-jour, virtualization. This is a creation of vendors > to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people -- yet > Microsoft, Novell and Red Hat seem to agree that we need it. Most > businesses can't keep *one* OS under control, now vendors are telling > them they need to run multiple environments PLUS the supervisor system > that runs it all. > > Most tech users aren't pushing for virtualization, or > software-as-a-service, or locked cellphones, or upgrade subscription > plans. These are all things that benefit vendors, who then try to market > it all as end-user features and hope that either trust or dependence > will close the sale. Imagine if you could have the hypervisor start a special game OS just to run your games, and then if the game screws up, you just kill of that partition, but your main OS and applications are not affected. That would be neat. Not sure if it will happen, but I do think virtualization support in the hardware gives some interesting posibilities. For developers it can be very useful to be able to boot a seperate system while debuging something, without having to have a seperate machine to do it on, while keeping your development environment up. Software as a service on the other hand, I see less potential in. People don't like having to continuously spend money on things. They complain enough about gas and insurance as it is. If they had to keep paying to use their car too, well that would be kind of like leasing... Never mind. Maybe people are that crazy after all. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 18:25:50 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:25:50 -0500 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1e55af990605291125j47dafc0fm17fc33168cbcdfa2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/28/06, Paul King wrote: > foobar 2000 > -- I think there is a Linux version of this, but the Windows one seems > useable under WINE. No, I see no reference to a Linux version. It's too bad.. Foobar2000 is a spectacular program. It could definitely use some polish (at least when I last used it), but it was really nice to use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 18:40:33 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/06, zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > of course, short of burning the paper you could go over the text (or parts > of it) with permanent marker, then turning the page over and doing the > same from the other or blank side of the page, so the text is blocked > from both sides. then shred, That doesn't work in some cases: * The impression left by a pen or pencil can still be detected. * There may be ways see some kind of chemical difference between the printer's ink on the page and the marker. Or perhaps various kinds of tricks of science. Burning is a bit improper these days.. perhaps a shredder and some sort of grinder would do it.. Two-stage shredding. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 18:51:54 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:51:54 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel-iioVC6aiMHHnaFIhWxJXaVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: > What is described below is how some of the photo editing software works I > think, the type that takes a set of images of a panorama and sticks em to > gether by looking for similar features, same goes for how they put > astronomy pictures together from lots of smaller images. Yes but they know which side is which, the shredded paper people don't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 18:55:13 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:55:13 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 May 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > Burning is a bit improper these days.. perhaps a shredder and some > sort of grinder would do it.. Two-stage shredding. Why is burning improper ? Save the shreddings for winter and fire them in the furnace ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 20:33:57 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 16:33:57 -0400 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605291125j47dafc0fm17fc33168cbcdfa2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> <1e55af990605291125j47dafc0fm17fc33168cbcdfa2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <447B5AB5.9070306@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/28/06, Paul King wrote: >> foobar 2000 >> -- I think there is a Linux version of this, but the Windows one seems >> useable under WINE. > > No, I see no reference to a Linux version. It's too bad.. Foobar2000 > is a spectacular program. It could definitely use some polish (at > least when I last used it), but it was really nice to use. So is amarok... The best I've *ever* used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 20:40:28 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:40:28 -0500 Subject: Some good news for a change -- WINE In-Reply-To: <447B5AB5.9070306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1148858197.10168.12.camel@gandalf> <1e55af990605291125j47dafc0fm17fc33168cbcdfa2@mail.gmail.com> <447B5AB5.9070306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605291340o30eee192t7809d81274538aeb@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > On 5/28/06, Paul King wrote: > >> foobar 2000 > >> -- I think there is a Linux version of this, but the Windows one seems > >> useable under WINE. > > > > No, I see no reference to a Linux version. It's too bad.. Foobar2000 > > is a spectacular program. It could definitely use some polish (at > > least when I last used it), but it was really nice to use. > > So is amarok... The best I've *ever* used. vi vs emacs on this one. I think it's nice but way too much for me. Without going into a review, I'll say that the UI has some excellent qualities and some awful qualities for the way I want to interact with my collection. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 20:53:30 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 20:53:30 +0000 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060529173027.GG18891-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <20060529173027.GG18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Imagine if you could have the hypervisor start a special game OS just to > run your games, and then if the game screws up, you just kill of that > partition, but your main OS and applications are not affected. That > would be neat. Not sure if it will happen, but I do think > virtualization support in the hardware gives some interesting > posibilities. This isn't a "feature"; this is a "mitigation of a problem." If your game didn't interact badly with your OS, then this wouldn't be necessary. > For developers it can be very useful to be able to boot a seperate > system while debuging something, without having to have a seperate > machine to do it on, while keeping your development environment up. s/For developers/For kernel or X server developers/ The big wins that come from separation of roles can assortedly be gained from such things as: a) Having a database backend with a "test" database and a "production" database; b) Depending on the fact that processes clean up after themselves; c) chroot / jail functionality... > Software as a service on the other hand, I see less potential in. > People don't like having to continuously spend money on things. They > complain enough about gas and insurance as it is. If they had to keep > paying to use their car too, well that would be kind of like leasing... > Never mind. Maybe people are that crazy after all. :) ... As soon as you stop paying for the service, your documents all go away, which helps solve the "proliferation of information" problem... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 21:45:45 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:45:45 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447B24CE.8020208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> Message-ID: <447B6B89.60004@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Contrast this to the tech fashion inflicted by vendors, such as the > current geekism-du-jour, virtualization. This is a creation of vendors > to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people -- yet > Microsoft, Novell and Red Hat seem to agree that we need it. Most > businesses can't keep *one* OS under control, now vendors are telling > them they need to run multiple environments PLUS the supervisor system > that runs it all. One point that IBM made, at the recent Real World Linux conference was the idea of running multiple instances of Linux on a large system. That method delivers a lot of economies to someone running multiple servers, compared to a bunch of x86 boxes. An example is a virtual lan between virtual servers, that runs at memory speed, rather than "only" 1 or 10 Gb/s. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 21:46:31 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:46:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <447B6BB7.8040501@rogers.com> Sy Ali wrote: > Burning is a bit improper these days.. perhaps a shredder and some > sort of grinder would do it.. Two-stage shredding. Just stick the paper into a user's manual. No one would ever think to look there. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 21:46:53 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:46:53 -0400 Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> Message-ID: <447B6BCD.5050707@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > >> What is described below is how some of the photo editing software works I >> think, the type that takes a set of images of a panorama and sticks em to >> gether by looking for similar features, same goes for how they put >> astronomy pictures together from lots of smaller images. > > Yes but they know which side is which, the shredded paper people don't. Handle a two sided strip as two one sided ones. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 22:07:22 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <447B6BB7.8040501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162@mail.gmail.com> <447B6BB7.8040501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50736.207.188.64.136.1148940442.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Just stick the paper into a user's manual. No one would ever think to > look there. ;-) LOL Reminds me of that suggestion about nuclear waste: just check it as baggage into American Airlines and you'll never see it again. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 22:13:00 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 22:13:00 +0000 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447B6B89.60004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <447B6B89.60004@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Contrast this to the tech fashion inflicted by vendors, such as the > > current geekism-du-jour, virtualization. This is a creation of vendors > > to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people -- yet > > Microsoft, Novell and Red Hat seem to agree that we need it. Most > > businesses can't keep *one* OS under control, now vendors are telling > > them they need to run multiple environments PLUS the supervisor system > > that runs it all. > > One point that IBM made, at the recent Real World Linux conference was > the idea of running multiple instances of Linux on a large system. That > method delivers a lot of economies to someone running multiple servers, > compared to a bunch of x86 boxes. An example is a virtual lan between > virtual servers, that runs at memory speed, rather than "only" 1 or 10 Gb/s. The trouble is that there are some not inconsiderable diseconomies of scale, as well. In order to host that bunch of hosts on one physical box, you need to have a physical box that has a Lot of Gigabytes of Memory, and those machines are *way* more expensive than beige boxes. The only way there's an "economy of scale" here is if you can treat a $100K server as being a sunk cost that, in effect, comes as no cost. At one point, some of us at work were thinking it might be a sweet idea to take one of the Opteron systems we have that is underutilized, and treat it as the "virtual server" for our login sessions and X clients and such. But it's not an "economy of scale;" it's an "economy of using something that would otherwise have been a VERY EXPENSIVE chunk of wasted hardware." There are some pretty cool things that could be done with Xen vis-a-vis process migration, whether for web servers or for database servers; it is definitely anything but cheap. And what it *wouldn't* buy, even at high price, is improved reliability. You can migrate a database server from one Xen physical host to another, *if you can plan the migration*. If the 'former' physical server falls over, there's no way to grab the last state and automagically shift it over. You needed to migrate it *before* the box fell down. The result is frankly quite uninteresting. The case where I most want migration is the case where it won't migrate. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 22:16:48 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 22:16:48 +0000 Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <50736.207.188.64.136.1148940442.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <1e55af990605291140y6d40a9eu4bc45bab374b8162@mail.gmail.com> <447B6BB7.8040501@rogers.com> <50736.207.188.64.136.1148940442.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Just stick the paper into a user's manual. No one would ever think to > > look there. ;-) > > LOL > > Reminds me of that suggestion about nuclear waste: just check it as > baggage into American Airlines and you'll never see it again. That seems unfair. I was rather irritated with them the last time I went to Manhattan when my bags arrived at my hotel 8h after I did, at about 3am. But I have flown a great deal with AA, and never have any of my bags actually disappeared. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 22:24:28 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:24:28 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <447B6B89.60004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <447B749C.7030207@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/29/06, James Knott wrote: >> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> > Contrast this to the tech fashion inflicted by vendors, such as the >> > current geekism-du-jour, virtualization. This is a creation of vendors >> > to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people -- yet >> > Microsoft, Novell and Red Hat seem to agree that we need it. Most >> > businesses can't keep *one* OS under control, now vendors are telling >> > them they need to run multiple environments PLUS the supervisor system >> > that runs it all. >> >> One point that IBM made, at the recent Real World Linux conference was >> the idea of running multiple instances of Linux on a large system. That >> method delivers a lot of economies to someone running multiple servers, >> compared to a bunch of x86 boxes. An example is a virtual lan between >> virtual servers, that runs at memory speed, rather than "only" 1 or 10 >> Gb/s. > > The trouble is that there are some not inconsiderable diseconomies of > scale, as well. > > In order to host that bunch of hosts on one physical box, you need to > have a physical box that has a Lot of Gigabytes of Memory, and those > machines are *way* more expensive than beige boxes. > > The only way there's an "economy of scale" here is if you can treat a > $100K server as being a sunk cost that, in effect, comes as no cost. One example is electricity and cooling costs. A mainframe running many instances of Linux, consumes far less power than the equivalent CPU power in small boxes. There is also the CPU load of several servers not peaking at the same time, to bring average load closer to peak, system reliability etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 29 23:55:31 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 16:55:31 -0700 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: <20060529134619.GE18891-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060529134619.GE18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Isn't it simpler to simply stop upgrading? The end result is the same, > at least for a couple of years. :) Len is right. Parts of Debian Unstable (e.g. X Window) break every so often. 1. You are best off with Debian stable (which is updated whenever all the release-critical bugs are dealt with) or Ubuntu stable (which is updated every six months.) 2. Failing that, use Debian stable plus backports for the apps you really need updated. 3. Failing that, use Debian testing. Testing is far more reliable than unstable. Cheers, Jason -- When you open Windows, bugs get in! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 01:15:32 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Virtualization (Was: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447B749C.7030207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <447B6B89.60004@rogers.com> <447B749C.7030207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50969.207.188.64.136.1148951732.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > One example is electricity and cooling costs. A mainframe running many > instances of Linux, consumes far less power than the equivalent CPU > power in small boxes. There is also the CPU load of several servers not > peaking at the same time, to bring average load closer to peak, system > reliability etc. > There was a presentation on virtualization at the HLUG meeting at McMaster U a few weeks ago. One of the university sysadmins explained that many applications running under Windows occupy far less than the full resources of the machine, but would normally require a stand-alone hardware machine to execute. With virtualization, the server farm can be partitioned into smaller virtual machines that are a better fit to the applications. This has real impact on number of servers and server room requirements. I have important applications that will only run under the Windows operating system. (Electronic Workbench for circuit simulation and Proteus for circuit board layout.) I personally like the idea of having virtualization built in, debugged and ready to go - so I can switch instantly between the two operating systems. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 07:19:51 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:19:51 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [OT] Shredded paper reassembled In-Reply-To: <447B6BCD.5050707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50652.207.188.64.136.1148909680.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1225.70.26.18.206.1148916261.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> <447B6BCD.5050707@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 May 2006, James Knott wrote: >>> What is described below is how some of the photo editing software works I >>> think, the type that takes a set of images of a panorama and sticks em to >>> gether by looking for similar features, same goes for how they put >>> astronomy pictures together from lots of smaller images. >> >> Yes but they know which side is which, the shredded paper people don't. > > Handle a two sided strip as two one sided ones. By side I meant side to match laterally (nsew). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 12:33:27 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 08:33:27 -0400 Subject: Virtualization (Was: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <50969.207.188.64.136.1148951732.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <447B6B89.60004@rogers.com> <447B749C.7030207@rogers.com> <50969.207.188.64.136.1148951732.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20605300533j62343f93k26cc091d352a8387@mail.gmail.com> This is what has me excited about the new Intel-powered Macs. With Parallels Workstation, I can run Linux and Windows as full-speed apps on my Mac. I'll hopefully be picking one up before the year is out. There is also a Windows and Linux solution. http://www.parallels.com/ On 5/29/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > One example is electricity and cooling costs. A mainframe running many > > instances of Linux, consumes far less power than the equivalent CPU > > power in small boxes. There is also the CPU load of several servers not > > peaking at the same time, to bring average load closer to peak, system > > reliability etc. > > > There was a presentation on virtualization at the HLUG meeting at McMaster > U a few weeks ago. One of the university sysadmins explained that many > applications running under Windows occupy far less than the full resources > of the machine, but would normally require a stand-alone hardware machine > to execute. With virtualization, the server farm can be partitioned into > smaller virtual machines that are a better fit to the applications. This > has real impact on number of servers and server room requirements. > > I have important applications that will only run under the Windows > operating system. (Electronic Workbench for circuit simulation and Proteus > for circuit board layout.) I personally like the idea of having > virtualization built in, debugged and ready to go - so I can switch > instantly between the two operating systems. > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 13:01:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 09:01:57 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <20060529173027.GG18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060530130157.GA18047@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 08:53:30PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > This isn't a "feature"; this is a "mitigation of a problem." If your > game didn't interact badly with your OS, then this wouldn't be > necessary. That is very true, but as long as Microsoft has their current coding standards, I think it might be useful. For Linux, I am not sure if it has much purpose. For hosting servers it could be useful to give eazch customer their own virtual server that they can do what they want with. For a Linux desktop user, I am not sure if there is a benefit. I guess some would think being able to run windows on top of Linux for some applications would be useful. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 13:26:25 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 09:26:25 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: <20060529134619.GE18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > > 3. Failing that, use Debian testing. Testing is far more reliable than > unstable. > > Cheers, > Jason I never knew that. Thanks for the suggestion. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 14:46:14 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:46:14 -0400 Subject: Question about Debian Unstable & Stable In-Reply-To: References: <20060529134619.GE18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060530144614.GA22088@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:26:25AM -0400, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: >On 5/29/06, Jason Spiro wrote: >> >>3. Failing that, use Debian testing. Testing is far more reliable than >>unstable. > >I never knew that. Thanks for the suggestion. I use testing on a couple of my machines, and I find it a nice balance between "everything-changing-all-the-time-latest-and-greatest-craziness" of unstable and the "everything-works-I'm-stuck-with-two-year-old- features" of stable. Testing has security updates, so you are generally losing nothing. When I want something new and exciting what I'll do is change my /etc/apt/sources.list to draw from unstable, then do an "apt-get update" and then an "apt-get install $SHINY_NEW_THING" and then change my sources.list back to testing. The shiny new thing (most recently Vim 7.0, very spiffy) is essentially pinned until testing catches up to that version, and then everything moves forward together. Generally though, testing has everything I want in it. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 15:00:44 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DemoCamp6, May 30 Message-ID: <20060530150044.39245.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Not Linux specific, but likely of fairly broad interest to the GTALug mailing list... Just a quick note, DemoCamp6 will be happening this evening at MaRS, 101 College Street West, from 6:30 PM to 8:00 PM. This will be a collection of 15 minute technology demos, with details to be seen here: http://barcamp.org/TorCampDemoCamp6 Plus you will see an on-line sign in sheet with a list of who is currently signed up for this event. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 15:47:50 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:47:50 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 5/28/06, Peter wrote: > > On Sun, 28 May 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:56:40AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > > > >> What's pathetic is that IT design, support and maintenance isn't really > >> a profession, it isn't even up to the level of being a "trade". Of > >> course, many IT vendors like things this way because accountability > >> would expose them. > > ;-) > > > A couple of points... > > > > 1) Unlike bricklaying, or carpentry, or metalworking, etc, there isn't > > a century or two of publications and knowledge handed down from > > generation to generation. C and Java are two of the "oldest" languages > > currently in major use for new development. Stuff like Python, Ruby, > > PHP is almost brand new. How many "centuries of practice" are there for > > these languages? > > Python and Ruby (and Perl and Tcl/Tk and C and most other 'common' > languages) predate Java by at least 10 years .. Huh? That doesn't sound right. Python: 1990 [1] Ruby: 1993 to 1995 [2] Perl: 1987 [3] Tcl: 1990 [4] C: Early 1970's [5] Java: Early 1990's [6] JavaScript: 1995 [7] PHP: 1995 [8] For a language to predate Java by ten years, it would have to have appeared in the early 1980's, by my reckoning. Only C falls into that category. > .. and before they became web > scripting languages they spent some time in the hands of scientists and > graduate students who took out some of the rougher edges, and many of > the ugly bugs. Neither Java, nor Javascript had this polishing session, > or the time. And it shows. Oh, and Php. Well, JavaScript, never had 'rougher edges' taken out before being used as a web scripting language, since it was written as part of the Netscape browser [7]. In addition, I think scientists and graduate students are more likely to use the tools that are available, rather than polish them .. unless they're in the CS department, that is. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario ---------- 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_language 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_language 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_programming_language 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_programming_language 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_programming_language 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript 8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 16:10:17 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:10:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: DemoCamp6, May 30 In-Reply-To: <20060530150044.39245.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060530150044.39245.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2359.216.13.70.178.1149005417.squirrel@mail.flashtek-uk.com> I will see if I can make it, otherwise, I will make every effort go get to the next TLUG or other lug meeting, Just tried to login to the wiki to add my name but there seems to be a problem doing that from the swap office, (using win2k and IE) Paul > Not Linux specific, but likely of fairly broad > interest to the GTALug mailing list... > > Just a quick note, DemoCamp6 will be happening this > evening at MaRS, 101 College Street West, from 6:30 PM > to 8:00 PM. This will be a collection of 15 minute > technology demos, with details to be seen here: > > http://barcamp.org/TorCampDemoCamp6 > > Plus you will see an on-line sign in sheet with a list > of who is currently signed up for this event. > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 16:31:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:31:43 +0000 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060530130157.GA18047-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <447B24CE.8020208@telly.org> <20060529173027.GG18891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060530130157.GA18047@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/30/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 08:53:30PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > > This isn't a "feature"; this is a "mitigation of a problem." If your > > game didn't interact badly with your OS, then this wouldn't be > > necessary. > > That is very true, but as long as Microsoft has their current coding > standards, I think it might be useful. For Linux, I am not sure if it > has much purpose. For hosting servers it could be useful to give eazch > customer their own virtual server that they can do what they want with. > For a Linux desktop user, I am not sure if there is a benefit. I guess > some would think being able to run windows on top of Linux for some > applications would be useful. I suppose it's an answer to Microsoft's incompetence, for that particularly heavyweight environment. As an application on Linux, for Linux, it strikes me as being *way* less interesting. The BSD "jail" approach is a spectacularly more efficient mechanism for creating "virtual machines." The usual Unix model involves process 0 running init, which then spawns everything else. With "jails," user space processes run a special version of init, which then encloses a set of related processes in their own respective "jail." If you need to create a virtual mail server, it doesn't require an extra kernel; you will essentially just have: a) A /bin defined that's got the needful programs linked into it b) A /var/spool area specific to the mail server c) A tiny set of additional processes Indeed, having a "jailed" mail server would only be trivially more expensive than having it outside the jail, as far as memory and disk requirements are concerned. http://www.kegel.com/crosstool/current/doc/chroot-login-howto.html -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 17:28:22 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering Message-ID: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> A mechanical engineer, electrical engineer and computer engineer are riding in a car. All of a sudden, the car makes a terrible noise and slows to a halt. 'That sounded like a cam-belt failure' says the mechanical engineer. We'll have to disassemble the engine. 'No, that sounded like the battery failed' says the electrical engineer. We should check that the alternator is working. They look at the computer engineer, who suggests 'Maybe we should all get out of the car and back in again, and see if that helps'. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 19:31:23 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Three visiting mathematicians are driving along a country road in New Zealand. They see a lone black sheep on top of a hill near the road. They pull over to the side of the road. The first mathematician says: "All sheep in New Zealand are black". The second mathematician says: "No, at least one sheep in New Zealand is black". The third mathematician shakes his head and says: "You're both wrong. At least one half of one sheep in New Zealand is black." Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 21:01:14 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:01:14 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060530210114.GA12087@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 10:23:56AM -0400, Tim Writer wrote > The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true > is as much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", > I mean individuals and businesses. The public doesn't demand "new" versions of Word. They demand versions of Word that handle all the Word documents they work with. - customer A has Word 97 - customers B, C, and D buy new machines and get Word 2003, which defaults to saving in Word 2003 format... which Word 97 can't read. - customer A *MUST* get Word 2003 in order to be able to read Word 2003 documents Of course, if ODF becomes the standard, then customer A can download a free ODF-handler plugin, and doesn't have to buy Word 2003. *THAT* hits the Office half of Microsoft's high-margin duo. Once a customer is comfortable running OpenOffice, switching from Windows to linux becomes less of a learning curve, because he won't have to dump his current office suite. ODF is the "thin-edge-of-the-wedge" that will make desktop linux feasable for the mass market. MS *MUST* stop ODF to maintain not only their office suite monopoly, but also their Windows monopoly. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 23:26:49 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 02:26:49 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 May 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: >> Python and Ruby (and Perl and Tcl/Tk and C and most other 'common' >> languages) predate Java by at least 10 years .. > > Huh? That doesn't sound right. > > Python: 1990 [1] > Ruby: 1993 to 1995 [2] > Perl: 1987 [3] > Tcl: 1990 [4] > C: Early 1970's [5] > > Java: Early 1990's [6] > JavaScript: 1995 [7] > PHP: 1995 [8] Not everything written on the web is accurate. Arguments: --snip-- /* * tcl.h -- * * This header file describes the externally-visible facilities * of the Tcl interpreter. * * Copyright (c) 1987-1994 The Regents of the University of California. * Copyright (c) 1993-1996 Lucent Technologies. * Copyright (c) 1994-1998 Sun Microsystems, Inc. * Copyright (c) 1998-2000 by Scriptics Corporation. * Copyright (c) 2002 by Kevin B. Kenny. All rights reserved. --snap-- Actually the language was written by Dr. John Ousterhout before 1987 while at ucb afaik. Later Dr. Ousterhout founded Scriptics and got control of the language again. I have a nice book here called 'Graphical Applications with Tcl and Tk' by Eric F. Johnson, from 1996. In 1996 the language could do almost everything it does now. Same thing for Perl which had a life before it was released afaik. You may be right about Python and Ruby. C is almost contemporary with the Unix epoch. I understand that it was written practically to implement Unix. For Perl, again looking in the source: --snip-- /* perl.h * * Copyright (C) 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, * 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, by Larry Wall and others * * You may distribute under the terms of either the GNU General Public * License or the Artistic License, as specified in the README file. * */ --snap-- which is off a little from the actual date. Java did not exist as a language outside labs with serious computers before sufficient CPU horsepower was available to move the colossus. In 1995-96 Java would cause a i486 to feel like it locked up for minutes. And when it did start to exist outside labs it started changing versions twice a year due to the tons of bugs in the widget systems, which were impossible to find before it started being used more widely imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 30 23:38:55 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 19:38:55 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <20060530210114.GA12087-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <20060530210114.GA12087@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <447CD78F.70803@utoronto.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 10:23:56AM -0400, Tim Writer wrote > >> The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true >> is as much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", >> I mean individuals and businesses. > > The public doesn't demand "new" versions of Word. They demand > versions of Word that handle all the Word documents they work with. > > - customer A has Word 97 > > - customers B, C, and D buy new machines and get Word 2003, which > defaults to saving in Word 2003 format... which Word 97 can't read. > > - customer A *MUST* get Word 2003 in order to be able to read Word > 2003 documents > > Of course, if ODF becomes the standard, then customer A can download a > free ODF-handler plugin, and doesn't have to buy Word 2003. *THAT* hits > the Office half of Microsoft's high-margin duo. Once a customer is > comfortable running OpenOffice, switching from Windows to linux becomes > less of a learning curve, because he won't have to dump his current > office suite. ODF is the "thin-edge-of-the-wedge" that will make > desktop linux feasable for the mass market. MS *MUST* stop ODF to > maintain not only their office suite monopoly, but also their Windows > monopoly. So, to engage in wild speculation, who votes for MS creating a Linux port of Office or dumping money at Codeweavers or Wine vs. opening their .doc/.xml format or whatever their 2003 offering uses? Anyone follow Port25, Microsoft's "Open Source Software Lab" as they call it (a win for ESR that): http://port25.technet.com ? I don't, curious as to whether it is a FUD machine or actually provides some insight MS's adoption/policy(ies). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 00:07:10 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 20:07:10 -0400 Subject: Wine tips (Was: Some good news for a change -- WINE) Message-ID: On 5/28/06, Paul King wrote: > I have not tried the "standard" windows programs which nearly everyone > can run, like Solitaire, but these are ones I have not heard of anyone > trying successfully. It is of no surprise that WINE still cannot run the > vast majority of Microsoft binaries -- at least, not the ones I have. FYI, this is the generic set of tips I always give people who are getting started with Wine: * Just run: wine setup.exe * If the installer does not work, install the program on a PC with Windows and copy over the directory from C:\Program Files onto your Linux box. * Then run: wine executable_name.exe If the app does not run, look for tips at http://appdb.winehq.org - search for your program using the search box on the left. Wine development goes quickly. A new Wine version comes out every 2 weeks. There may be other tips you need to know, such as installing native DLLs or making other changes using the winecfg tool. Ask on Freenode channel #winehq or on the mailing list at http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.wine.user where they'll be glad to help you. They can also tell you if you should file a bug report or not. With your help, Wine can be made better for everyone. Please CC me directly on all replies. Cheers, Jason -- Firefox: the browser you can trust. http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 02:42:46 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:42:46 -0500 Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605301942j1fc569a1tc39865d874920e74@mail.gmail.com> Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Ass http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 14:25:44 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:25:44 -0400 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447CD78F.70803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <20060530210114.GA12087@waltdnes.org> <447CD78F.70803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <447DA768.50900@uoguelph.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 10:23:56AM -0400, Tim Writer wrote >> >>> The public's constant demand for new and exciting over tried and true >>> is as much responsible for this as the industry. And by "public", >>> I mean individuals and businesses. >> >> The public doesn't demand "new" versions of Word. They demand >> versions of Word that handle all the Word documents they work with. >> >> - customer A has Word 97 >> >> - customers B, C, and D buy new machines and get Word 2003, which >> defaults to saving in Word 2003 format... which Word 97 can't read. >> >> - customer A *MUST* get Word 2003 in order to be able to read Word >> 2003 documents >> >> Of course, if ODF becomes the standard, then customer A can download a >> free ODF-handler plugin, and doesn't have to buy Word 2003. *THAT* hits >> the Office half of Microsoft's high-margin duo. Once a customer is >> comfortable running OpenOffice, switching from Windows to linux becomes >> less of a learning curve, because he won't have to dump his current >> office suite. ODF is the "thin-edge-of-the-wedge" that will make >> desktop linux feasable for the mass market. MS *MUST* stop ODF to >> maintain not only their office suite monopoly, but also their Windows >> monopoly. > > So, to engage in wild speculation, who votes for MS creating a Linux > port of Office or dumping money at Codeweavers or Wine vs. opening their > .doc/.xml format or whatever their 2003 offering uses? > > Anyone follow Port25, Microsoft's "Open Source Software Lab" as they > call it (a win for ESR that): http://port25.technet.com ? I don't, > curious as to whether it is a FUD machine or actually provides some > insight MS's adoption/policy(ies). > > Jamon > > I find it impossible to simply envision Microsoft putting a product on the market that is intended to run on Linux. That's all I really have to add. -Tom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 14:41:53 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:41:53 -0400 Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: <1e55af990605301942j1fc569a1tc39865d874920e74-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605301942j1fc569a1tc39865d874920e74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280605310741x3ed920d8yfe259e765cc16569@mail.gmail.com> Sticking to the off topic topic, I've always liked this one (I'm a mech myself): Three engineers were sitting in a bar when the conversation turned to God. The mechanical engineer said "God is a Mechanical Engineer." Being engineers, the other two called for proof. The mech held up his hand, and said "Consider the human hand. 27 bones, it's a work of mechanical genius: we can apply huge force with it, or do detail work with the lightest touch. There can be no question - God is a Mech." "No," said the electrical engineer, "God is clearly an Electrical Engineer!" "Sure," said the mech, "back it up." "Consider the human nervous system - the sense of touch, the ability to convey both information and commands that are translated into movement and control the highest organism on the face of the planet. It's brilliant." More drunk than the other two, the civil engineer said "you both got it all wrong. He's a Civ. 's obvious." "Fill us in," says the electrical. The civil engineer replied "Who else would run a toxic waste dump through a recreation zone?" -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 15:37:25 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:37:25 -0500 Subject: Before you think of being a do-gooder... In-Reply-To: <447DA768.50900-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060524044810.GA25131@waltdnes.org> <1148733062.4211.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <447868A8.9050006@telly.org> <20060528054930.GB13182@waltdnes.org> <447A5ED9.6020603@telly.org> <20060530210114.GA12087@waltdnes.org> <447CD78F.70803@utoronto.ca> <447DA768.50900@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990605310837n11081848pac0e297cd95bbdba@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/06, Tom Watts wrote: > I find it impossible to simply envision Microsoft putting a product on > the market that is intended to run on Linux. That's all I really have > to add. Sure.. cut off the leg to save the patient. Parts of Microsoft turn on the rest for fun and profit. Gamblers and investors know about betting on both sides, holding out until the last moment, etc. It's also not too late for William to hire those 10 programmers and then flood the market with quality software. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 16:09:27 2006 From: jasonspiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:09:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 5/30/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 Just curious. Have you considered getting a 1-800 number? They make it seem like you have a bigger company, and they're not that expensive. Even some smaller telecom providers offer them, though I'm not sure who; you may have to ask on Usenet on tor.general. Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 16:42:19 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:42:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: <1f13df280605310741x3ed920d8yfe259e765cc16569-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605301942j1fc569a1tc39865d874920e74@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280605310741x3ed920d8yfe259e765cc16569@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm an engineer (and I've heard that joke before), but my father is an actuary -- a mathemetician who works in insurance. So here's the only actuary joke I know: Q: How do you recognize an outgoing actuary? A: He looks at *your* shoes when he talks to you. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 16:58:26 2006 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:58:26 -0400 Subject: [OT] Computer Engineering In-Reply-To: References: <50495.207.188.64.136.1149010102.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990605301942j1fc569a1tc39865d874920e74@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280605310741x3ed920d8yfe259e765cc16569@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alex Beamish wrote: > Q: How do you recognize an outgoing actuary? > A: He looks at *your* shoes when he talks to you. Off topic, eh? There's an economist joke: Two efficient-market theorists were walking down the road. One said "Look, there's a ten-dollar bill on the ground." The other said "It can't be. If it were a ten-dollar bill, somebody would have picked it up." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 17:48:15 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:48:15 -0400 Subject: Smalltalk Club Message-ID: Although Debian has not included Sqeuak (the Smalltalk virtual machine) in its distro yet, as the licensing details have not been reset from the form Apple made for them in 1996, I'm not going to wait. I'm starting a Toronto ... Well, THE Toronto Smalltalk club. http://www.brokentomb.com Yes, there is an existing club called the Toronto Smalltalk Users Group, but if they never have meetings (mine will be monthly) then are they really a club? Or put another way, a Smalltalk way, if an object is an instance of a class, then isn't that the same thing as saying a muffin is an instance of a recipe? Is there a difference between the instance of a muffin and a muffin? If not, then why to Smalltalk people confuse the issue by using the word instance at all. I can guess that you need a recipe (class) to make a muffin (object). :) If you want to hash out the mysteries of Smalltalk with me, I'll be in the bar. (see link above) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 18:16:44 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:16:44 +0000 Subject: Smalltalk Club In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/31/06, Chris Cunnington wrote: > Or put another way, a Smalltalk way, if an object is an instance of a class, > then isn't that the same thing as saying a muffin is an instance of a > recipe? Is there a difference between the instance of a muffin and a muffin? > If not, then why to Smalltalk people confuse the issue by using the word > instance at all. I can guess that you need a recipe (class) to make a muffin > (object). Well, Smalltalk clearly fits into the set of OO languages that require classes as a "template" for object instances. If memory serves, Hope is a characteristic example of the "classless" object system. In Hope, there is no such thing as a class; what you do to create objects is to start with an example object (there's a "base" one around when you need to start from scratch), and then add slots as needed. You always instantiate objects "by example"... "Create an object like this one..." The "classless" approach would be attractive for cases where you want objects to be able to be dynamically customized. That hasn't generally been popular. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 19:11:26 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:11:26 -0400 Subject: Smalltalk Club In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <447DEA5E.9070803@telly.org> Chris Cunnington wrote: >Although Debian has not included Sqeuak (the Smalltalk virtual machine) in its distro yet, > Yet? Has Debian made any announced intention to change their mind and include non-free (as in speech) software? Smalltalk is not open source (using the OSI guidelines) or free software (under the GNU guidelines), and that situation seems unlikely to change. > as the licensing details have not been reset from the form Apple made for them in 1996, I'm not going to wait. > > Why have you been you waiting? For a Toronto Smalltalk group to exist, or for Apple to make Squeak truly free software so that Debian will include it? If it's the former, there's no need to wait because a group already exists. If it's the latter, you likely have a very long wait ahead of you. >I'm starting a Toronto ... Well, THE Toronto Smalltalk club. > >http://www.brokentomb.com > >Yes, there is an existing club called the Toronto Smalltalk Users Group, but if they never have meetings (mine will be monthly) then are they really a club? > > Pardon? http://www.smalltalk.toronto.on.ca/schedule.htm It looks like they have between three and five meetings a year; not everyone needs monthly. But that hardly constitutes the accusation of "never have meetings". Please do some research before pronouncing the existing group dead and yourself the definitive leader. In any case, I suspect that existing community members would look rather unfavourably on your definition of Smalltalk as "a language for building web sites". Indeed, some folks here at TLUG might take issue with your website's dismissal of Ruby, Python and Ajax as "barbarian languages". So maybe it's just as well that you have your own club. Best of luck with it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 19:41:26 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:41:26 -0400 Subject: Smalltalk Club In-Reply-To: <447DEA5E.9070803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <447DEA5E.9070803@telly.org> Message-ID: <7225814B-FA68-4D94-BD15-415E830AA3E8@tri-coder.org> > Indeed, some folks here at TLUG might take issue with your > website's dismissal of Ruby, Python and Ajax as "barbarian > languages". I take issue with your classification of AJAX as a language, you insensitive clod! (just kidding) Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 31 20:58:00 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:58:00 -0400 Subject: Smalltalk Club In-Reply-To: <447DEA5E.9070803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <447DEA5E.9070803@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan, The group that you say already exists just canceled its next meeting, which had been set for June 15th. There were about nine people at the last meeting of the Toronto Smalltalk Users' Group, and I don't recall you being there. I have the blessing of Bob Nemec who runs the TSUG and is a member of the Smalltalk Industry Council. I'm stealing nobody's thunder. The truth of it is I'm one guy who wants to learn Smalltalk and wants any others who are interested to come out so we can talk about these things. Up until the workshop the TSUG just had, you couldn't even do that at its meetings, because the lecture format didn't make open discussion easy. Meeting once every six months, as the TSUG does, does not suit my learning needs. I need to talk to other people about the language. And yea, I called Ajax, Python and Ruby barbarian languages. Did you see the cat by the pyramid, how could you think I'm not kidding around? Chris Cunnington The Tomb Robbers' Club A Smalltalk club http://www.brokentomb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml