From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 00:06:15 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: Webcam recommendations In-Reply-To: <20060630234938.GA31554-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060621104954.GA23280@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060621130904.GC9728@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060630234938.GA31554@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060630200615.09570bf6.tleslie@tcn.net> logitec quick cams work, we even got the little clip one that goes on your portable to work, there is a seperate driver project out there for them, not sure logitech directly puts out drivers. They are the golf ball type cams, actaully on the driver page, its more the internal chip set that the drivers care about. http://qce-ga.sourceforge.net/ is one of them, but i remember seeing a more comprehensive list at one time. now you can also get a cheap s-video in / tunner card from ati for about 40$ that runs on linux (i run one) and use a camera that has s-video out if you want to get into higher quality. Haupauge has a USB tuner/s-video device that can do it, if you stick with USB. it sound like you are looking at survailence? which is a project i have done with linux before, and most "web cams" just can't hack it. best to go with a s-video input and a good camera .. and auto iris and focus etc usually bite on web-cams too, and then by the time you get to web-cams that are good, your better off in capture card and standard handicam type territory. -tl On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:49:38 -0400 Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 09:09:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 06:49:54AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> I'm looking for a web cam. Must have USB interface, work with Linux and > >> have the ability to store pictures, unattended, when movement occurs. > >> Can anyone offer a recommendation? > > > >Motion detection and storage is your computer/software's problem, not > >the webcam. > > OK. What make and model of webcam have people successfully used with > Linux? > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 29 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 04:01:26 2006 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:01:26 -0400 Subject: unknown partition table In-Reply-To: <44A593C0.4060508-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <44A593C0.4060508@interlog.com> Message-ID: I don't know if anyone has already suggested this but here goes : Try reading the first sector of the disk to a file to see if the physical disk has gone bad or if it is a problem with the partition data. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens Sent: June 30, 2006 5:13 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: unknown partition table Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Does starting with a zero table mean I lose all data on the disk? How > would I recover the previous partition table? Thanks for any help! It usually means you have lost all the data on the disk unless you know *exactly* what the partition table settings were before. If you know the old settings, you might be able to reset the table and regain access to your data. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 04:19:53 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Changing to vex.net Message-ID: <20060531212849.D77038@vex.net> The main thing is that I am changing ISPs to vex.net, so those of you used to seeing pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org will now see sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org in my email headers. I have been a sympatico subscriber for the past 5-6 years, and I think it is time to give it up. I ranted earlier that they had mismanaged NNTP, and their new excuse for a contracted-out service is no better. You can't write a 4-part FAQ if Sympatico drops the last 3 parts. So, I don't believe that I am getting my money's worth for the value, and the public who used to use Sympatico's NNTP bandwidth is being ripped off. I am changing to vex.net, since they already host my website, and so might as well start carrying my mailing list traffic. Over time, I am also going to transfer control of the FAQ from my Sympatico to my Vex account (this is not as straightforward as one may think). Cost matters more to me than connection speed, and I am not sure if I will get the high speeds or not. But I will be paying for a website and a DSL connection for the same price Sympatico charges just for DSL and a dinky website with no CGI/script capability -- essentialy an empty subdirectory rather than a virtual domain. Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 04:34:18 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: unknown partition table In-Reply-To: <44A593C0.4060508-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10606291509t1c476817g73b899e8901eb8e7@mail.gmail.com> <44A593C0.4060508@interlog.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> Does starting with a zero table mean I lose all data on the disk? How >> would I recover the previous partition table? Thanks for any help! > > It usually means you have lost all the data on the disk unless you know > *exactly* what the partition table settings were before. If you know the old > settings, you might be able to reset the table and regain access to your > data. I once lost my partition table, and wrote this script to recover it. You need to know the last sector on the drive, and it helps to know approximately where the last partition started. lastsector=2498 n=400 while [ $n -lt 600 ] do fdisk /dev/hda > /dev/null 2>&1 << EOT d = delete 1 = hda1 n = new one add p = primary type 1 = hda1 $n = next try @ start sector $lastsector = last sector of disk p = print partn-table w = write partn-table to disk EOT mount -t ext2 /dev/hda1 /d1 && exit || echo -e "\aMount failed $n" (( ++n )) done I set that running, went away and had supper, and when I came back it had restored the last partition (which was the largest, and the only one I really cared about). This could be modified to reset lastsector to the one preceding the successful beginning section and try from there, eventually rebuilding the whole table. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 09:59:06 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:59:06 +0300 Subject: Hostname issues Message-ID: Hi all, I have been surprised by how easy one can break a Fedora/ Red Hat system by only changing the host name. This is easily to replicate as I have done it three times on a Red Hat system. After changing the host name (#hostname xyz), they system immediately hangs and one can't even start a new terminal. Rebooting don't help. It does improve things a bit when I manually change names in as many files as I could find - /etc/hosts, /etc/sysconfig/network*, etc ? but it never get back to its previous performance in my opinion. Is there any saner way of executing such a trivia work? What could be the reason for "hostname" script to be that hopelessly useless? Thank you in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 14:33:52 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:33:52 -0400 Subject: Hostname issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607011033.52365.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Saturday 01 July 2006 05:59, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been surprised by how easy one can break a Fedora/ Red Hat system > by only changing the host name. This is easily to replicate as I have done > it three times on a Red Hat system. > After changing the host name (#hostname xyz), they system immediately > hangs and one can't even start a new terminal. Rebooting don't help. It > does improve things a bit when I manually change names in as many files as > I could find - /etc/hosts, /etc/sysconfig/network*, etc ? but it never get > back to its previous performance in my opinion. Is there any saner way of > executing such a trivia work? What could be the reason for "hostname" > script to be that hopelessly useless? Could it possibly help to add the new hostname to the /etc/hosts file before performing the hostname change? 127.0.0.1 oldhostname newhostname -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 14:38:37 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:38:37 -0400 Subject: Webcam recommendations In-Reply-To: <20060630234938.GA31554-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060621104954.GA23280@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060621130904.GC9728@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060630234938.GA31554@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <200607011038.37932.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Friday 30 June 2006 19:49, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 09:09:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 06:49:54AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> I'm looking for a web cam. Must have USB interface, work with Linux and > >> have the ability to store pictures, unattended, when movement occurs. > >> Can anyone offer a recommendation? > > > >Motion detection and storage is your computer/software's problem, not > >the webcam. > > OK. What make and model of webcam have people successfully used with > Linux? DLINK DSB-C310 H/W Version B1 It uses the OV511 drivers http://alpha.dyndns.org/ov511/ A list of supported cameras is here http://alpha.dyndns.org/ov511/cameras.html -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 14:43:04 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:43:04 -0400 Subject: Perl event, Damian Conway, July 5, U of T Message-ID: <1151764984.44a689f8be766@webmail.utoronto.ca> Noticed this upcoming event at U of T this week, I'm sure many know about it already. For those who don't, here is the event description, brief bio etc.: Seminar Time: 2006 Jul 5 18:30:00 Location: BA 1180 Speaker: Damian Conway, Thoughtstream, an International IT training company Abstract: Damian Conway, a well-known and influential figure in the Perl community will be speaking about Perl, as well as modern archaeological techniques, bidirectional cross-dressing, Ancient Greeks hackers, and a host of other improbable topics. Bio: Damian Conway holds a B.Sc. and a Ph.D. in Computer Science. A widely sought-after speaker and trainer, he is also the author of numerous well-known software modules including: Parse::RecDescent (a sophisticated parsing tool), Class::Contract (design-by-contract programming in Perl), Lingua::EN::Inflect (rule-based English transformations for text generation), Class::Multimethods (multiple dispatch polymorphism), Text::Autoformat (intelligent automatic reformatting of plaintext), Switch (Perl's missing case statement), NEXT (resumptive method dispatch), Filter::Simple (Perl-based source code manipulation), Quantum::Superpositions (auto-parallelization of serial code using a quantum mechanical metaphor), and Lingua::Romana::Perligata (programming in Latin). All of this software is available free from your local CPAN mirror. A well-known member of the international Perl community, Damian was the winner of the 1998, 1999, and 2000 Larry Wall Awards for Practical Utility. The best technical paper at the annual Perl Conference was subsequently named in his honour. He is a member of the technical committee for The Perl Conference, a keynote speaker at many Open Source conferences, a former columnist for "The Perl Journal", and author of the books "Object Oriented Perl" and "Perl Best Practices". In 2001 Damian received the first "Perl Foundation Development Grant" and spent 20 months working on projects for the betterment of Perl. Currently he runs an international IT training company ? Thoughtstream ? which provides programmer training from beginner to masterclass level throughout Europe, North America, and Australasia. Most of his time is currently spent working with Larry Wall on the design of the new Perl 6 programming language and producing explanatory documents exploring Larry's design decisions. Other technical and academic areas in which he has published internationally include programming language design, programmer education, object orientation, software engineering, natural language generation, synthetic language generation, emergent systems, declarative programming, image morphing, human-computer interaction, geometric modelling, the psychophysics of perception, nanoscale simulation, and parsing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 16:46:23 2006 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:46:23 -0400 Subject: Hostname issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607011246.29461.jab@muskokatech.ca> On Saturday 01 July 2006 05:59, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been surprised by how easy one can break a Fedora/ Red Hat system > by only changing the host name. This is easily to replicate as I have done > it three times on a Red Hat system. > After changing the host name (#hostname xyz), they system immediately > hangs and one can't even start a new terminal. Rebooting don't help. It > does improve things a bit when I manually change names in as many files as > I could find - /etc/hosts, /etc/sysconfig/network*, etc ? but it never get > back to its previous performance in my opinion. Is there any saner way of > executing such a trivia work? What could be the reason for "hostname" > script to be that hopelessly useless? > > Thank you in advance > > William I didn't realize such a command existed. I have always modified /etc/hosts and /etc/sysconfig/network and rebooted. It has always worked well for me. -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A 0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 1 22:31:46 2006 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] VoIP recommendations In-Reply-To: <1e55af990606282029w1f8f6df1waa0d42540a54d769-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990606282029w1f8f6df1waa0d42540a54d769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Quickest route to getting started: - Download the EZ-Bake style linux & asterisk PBX distro from trixbox.org, or if you prefer to roll your own PBX from scratch, check out asterisk.org, and experiment with some softphones first (see voip-info.org for a list) - Get VoIP service from unlimitel.ca, and/or atlasvoice.com. They're both Ontario based, excellent customer support, and open source friendly. - Pick up some VoIP phones, or adapters from voipdepot.ca (based in Brampton, really fast shipping) - You'll find voip-info.org to be an invaluable reference for examples and explanations. - Join the taug.ca mailing list, we live to answer these sorts of questions ^_^ Cheers, spd | It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what | you know for sure that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain | | The Toronto Asterisk Users Group | Join the discussion group by visiting http://taug.ca | or by sending email to asterisk-subscribe-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > Strangely, I just confirmed that the Rogers wireless internet access > is unmetered for business users, and I'm strongly thinking of jumping > ship so that I can also discard the phone service and get VoIP of some > kind. > > So what all is out there? The last time I checked, Skype didn't have > inbound numbers for Canada. =/ > > What's particularly easy to use, requiring no computer? Standalone > boxes are interesting enough that I'd like to learn about what's out > there. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 2 00:06:18 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:06:18 -0500 Subject: [OT] VoIP recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990606282029w1f8f6df1waa0d42540a54d769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607011706m4a7f33bex5d0e03c7dd328dbd@mail.gmail.com> On 7/1/06, Simon P. Ditner wrote: > Quickest route to getting started: > > - Download the EZ-Bake style linux & asterisk PBX distro from > trixbox.org, or if you prefer to roll your own PBX from scratch, check > out asterisk.org, and experiment with some softphones first (see > voip-info.org for a list) > > - Get VoIP service from unlimitel.ca, and/or atlasvoice.com. They're both > Ontario based, excellent customer support, and open source friendly. > > - Pick up some VoIP phones, or adapters from voipdepot.ca (based in > Brampton, really fast shipping) > > - You'll find voip-info.org to be an invaluable reference for examples > and explanations. > > - Join the taug.ca mailing list, we live to answer these sorts of > questions ^_^ Thanks for the info. There is certainly a lot more to this than I thought. I've been leafing through the voip-info.org wiki for a while, and I've got to do a bunch more learning before I can decide on persuing something like this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 2 17:13:06 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 13:13:06 -0400 Subject: Damian Conway in Toronto -- final details -- July 3 *to* 5 Message-ID: <44A7FEA2.3050705@buynet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Opps that should be July 3, 4 and 5 ... ...from our friends at Toronto Perl Mongers: THREE great talks this week! Hi everyone, The details are finalized for the Damian trip. Looking forward to seeing people out at his talks this week! //////////////////////////////////////////////// What: Perl 6 Update When: Monday July 3 (Canada Day stat holiday) 1:00 - 5:00 pm please aim for arriving around 12:45pm Where: 2 Bloor Street West (CIBC Tower, our usual TPM meeting spot), which is at the NW corner of Yonge & Bloor in downtown Toronto Room # and Floor # as yet to be determined. Note that building access could be tightly controlled, as will elevator access, so we'll have to work according to a system of pre-planned pick-up times as well as phone calls up via cellphone to get the ferryman to pick you up. Other: Dinner & beer follows, 5:30 pm - ?? Location: as yet unknown... we'll just pick a place in the neighbourhood to go following the talk. //////////////////////////////////////////////// What: Toronto BarCamp DemoCamp Damian will give a 15 minute demonstration of the Perl 6 language (That's right -- Perl 6, now!) (4 other presenters each have a chunk of time there too) When: Tuesday July 4 6:30 - 8:00 pm Likely Damian will be speaking towards the end of this time range Where: see more/full details at: http://barcamp.org/TorCampDemoCamp7 //////////////////////////////////////////////// What: "Fun With Dead Languages" http://damian.conway.org/Seminars//DeadLanguages.html When: Wednesday July 5 6:30 - 9:00 pm Where: U. of Toronto Bahen Centre (40 St. George Street, on the w. side of St. George just slightly to the north of College) Room # 1180 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=40+St+George+St,+Toronto,+ON,+Canada&ie=UTF8&ll=43.66039,-79.39682&spn=0.014002,0.043259&om=1 Watch in mesmerized terror as Damian hacks code in five unrelated languages (none of them Perl). Along the way, you'll also learn about modern archaeological techniques, bidirectional cross- dressing, Ancient Greeks hackers, improbable romances, the real Club Med, why programmers shouldn't frequent casinos, the language of moisture vaporators, C++ mysticism, conversational Latin, state machines on steroids, feeding the dog the old-fashioned way, the shocking truth about anime, programming without variables or subroutines, the Four Voids of the Apocalypse, Microsoft's new advertising campaign, what the Romans used instead of braces, drunken stonemasons, the ancient probabilistic wisdom of bodkins, how to kill a language with a single byte, and the price of fish. //////////////////////////////////////////////// Fundraising - ----------- There are some costs associated with his trip here, so I am taking up a collection to cover the costs. Any additional money raised will be given to Damian as an honorarium, in support of such an active Perl community member who has supported us so much whenever we use Perl In fact, I aim for there to be such a surplus so that we can help Damian out while he tours North America this summer. If you can and would like to donate please email me. Please note that all of Damian's public talks are free and that he's committed to all of them, regardless of funds raised. All are encouraged to attend -- the more, the merrier! Also note that Fulko Hew has set up a PayPal link to help, in case that's your bag: http://www.hew.ca/ //////////////////////////////////////////////// About Damian - ---------------- For those who don't know Damian, he's from Melbourne, Australian, a professor of Computer Science at Monash University who has taken a more-or-less indefinite leave of absence so that he can work on the Perl 6 effort. (He's Larry Wall's #2 man in the design of the Perl 6 language.) He's also an active contributor to Perl 5, authoring more CPAN modules than you can comfortably shake a stick at, some being ridiculous (Coy, Acme::Bleach) while others are profound (Parse::RecDescent, Regexp::Common, Text::Balanced). He's a regular speaker at Perl and other IT conferences around the world, and a crowd favourite. His Perl books: "Perl Best Practices" http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlbp/ "Object Oriented Perl" http://www.manning.com/conway/ ////////////////////////////////// - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEp/6iU+pQaeEFGGARArSpAJ962vbt6kq2bqQrs5r4Mywtazs5kQCdG2yQ jVHuTQ4EEXZqv3dMLivgBy8= =jx2Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 2 19:15:07 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bugs in Acme::Bleach Message-ID: <20060702150151.Y84711@vex.net> I tried Acme::Bleach, not before reading the docs on it, of course ... I tried the following 5-line source file: #! /bin/perl use Acme::Bleach; print "Hello, world!\n"; if you count the lines in the file, you get 6 lines (I placed a carriage return after the line with "Hello, world!\n"). Running the file works as documented :-) with one problem ... the five line file has changed in to a file greater than 20 lines, with tab characters which were never there before. I question this rather undocumented behaviour, and would raise a question as to whether this module would really suit the needs of the average user! :-) Yes, a great module for scaring the daylights out of programmers... Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 3 15:54:19 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 18:54:19 +0300 Subject: Hostname issues In-Reply-To: <200607011246.29461.jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw@public.gmane.org> References: <200607011246.29461.jab@muskokatech.ca> Message-ID: > William I didn't realize such a command existed. I have always modified /etc/hosts and /etc/sysconfig/network and rebooted. It has always worked well for me. It does look like you need to manually edit all files that hostname reside on. Well, I can do that but I still felt like a script could work better. As I was researching on the issue, I realised that HP Unix has a script that ensure resolver and hostname are set up well and wished something similar could exist in this world hence the post Anyway, thanks William -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A 0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 3 16:22:42 2006 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:22:42 -0400 Subject: Hostname issues In-Reply-To: References: <200607011246.29461.jab@muskokatech.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080607030922q1de962b7k8ab008399344ece8@mail.gmail.com> On 7/3/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > It does look like you need to manually edit all files that hostname reside > on. Well, I can do that but I still felt like a script could work better. As > I was researching on the issue, I realised that HP Unix has a script that > ensure resolver and hostname are set up well and wished something > similar could exist in this world hence the post The script is flaky and useless, on all version of HP-UX I have used you do the same thing (edit /etc/rc.config.d/netconf and /etc/hosts by hand and reboot). SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 01:14:42 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:14:42 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player Message-ID: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> Well in spite of all the warnings in a thread a while back, I gambled and bought a T30 model a few days ago. My old cassette player is a drag to use when this new technology is available. The T30 is supported by libgphoto2 and shows up in gtkam. The Konqueror kioslave, kamera, doesn't find it. Apart from that, can someone tell me where to go for information on what is involved in transferring tunes to this little beast? Like where do the song titles come from? I have never made an music CD so I am still in the Neanderthal age I guess. If anyone has an idea what program to use for the transfers that would be nice, since gtkam downloads pictures but doesn't transfer to the camera [ in this case a music device ]. Apparently I could just record music on the line in but there wouldn't be any song index. I might try that however with an audiobook that I recently downloaded from Librivox. Probably use less memory if I transferred the .ogg file, ?? Thanks anyone. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 02:03:38 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:03:38 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <200607032114.42933.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley wrote: > Well in spite of all the warnings in a thread a while back, I gambled and > bought a T30 model a few days ago. My old cassette player is a drag to use > when this new technology is available. > > The T30 is supported by libgphoto2 and shows up in gtkam. The Konqueror > kioslave, kamera, doesn't find it. Apart from that, can someone tell me > where to go for information on what is involved in transferring tunes to this > little beast? Like where do the song titles come from? I have never made an > music CD so I am still in the Neanderthal age I guess. > > If anyone has an idea what program to use for the transfers that would be > nice, since gtkam downloads pictures but doesn't transfer to the camera [ in > this case a music device ]. > > Apparently I could just record music on the line in but there wouldn't be any > song index. I might try that however with an audiobook that I recently > downloaded from Librivox. Probably use less memory if I transferred the .ogg > file, ?? Since you are using KDE you might have success with Amarok. Version 1.4 is a great release and it handles (from what I can tell) any Linux compatible player. Give it a shot. There should be kanotix or debian .debs around somewhere on/close to your preferred mirror. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 03:14:35 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:14:35 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <200607032114.42933.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060704031435.GA5869@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> You might start at freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=iriver§ion=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 I have an older flash Iriver. It works pretty well with the ifp_gui application. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 03:50:18 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <200607032114.42933.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Merv Curley wrote: > Well in spite of all the warnings in a thread a while back, I gambled and > bought a T30 model a few days ago. My old cassette player is a drag to use > when this new technology is available. > (snip) > If anyone has an idea what program to use for the transfers that would be > nice, since gtkam downloads pictures but doesn't transfer to the camera [ in > this case a music device ]. I considered buying one of these not too long ago myself. In my research I came across http://libmtp.sourceforge.net/ which may be of use to you. HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 05:02:49 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 01:02:49 -0400 Subject: smbldap-passwd fun. Message-ID: I'm trying to get users to be able to change their passwords (LDAP + SAMBA in one go) with smbldap-passwd; this works, but the command has to read a file that contains the admin password to the LDAP tree - this is a slight problem. SETUIDing it doesn't work, because further file-open calls are done as the user, so permissions are an issue. sudoing doesn't work, either, because then the user could change anyone else's password. Annoyingly enough, I can't chmod 711 it, as the shell complains that it can't read it; so much for being able to execute a file without having to read it. Further, I can't just set the users' shell to that command, because they need to be able to ssh in and run other commands. About the only thing I can think of is making a custom shell that only allows a few commands to be run (nothing that could open/read/cat a file), or using a web-based frontend - I've heard phpldapadmin or somesuch mentioned. Has anyone ever ran into such a situation/requirement? Thanks in advance, -- Vlad -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 10:56:18 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 06:56:18 -0400 Subject: smbldap-passwd fun. Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A3206@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Had a similar problem. Created a web front end that creates a change password file that a peel script looks for every 10 seconds. Not elegant but it works D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Tue Jul 04 01:02:49 2006 Subject: [TLUG]: smbldap-passwd fun. I'm trying to get users to be able to change their passwords (LDAP + SAMBA in one go) with smbldap-passwd; this works, but the command has to read a file that contains the admin password to the LDAP tree - this is a slight problem. SETUIDing it doesn't work, because further file-open calls are done as the user, so permissions are an issue. sudoing doesn't work, either, because then the user could change anyone else's password. Annoyingly enough, I can't chmod 711 it, as the shell complains that it can't read it; so much for being able to execute a file without having to read it. Further, I can't just set the users' shell to that command, because they need to be able to ssh in and run other commands. About the only thing I can think of is making a custom shell that only allows a few commands to be run (nothing that could open/read/cat a file), or using a web-based frontend - I've heard phpldapadmin or somesuch mentioned. Has anyone ever ran into such a situation/requirement? Thanks in advance, -- Vlad -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 13:21:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:21:03 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <200607032114.42933.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060704132103.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 09:14:42PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > Well in spite of all the warnings in a thread a while back, I gambled and > bought a T30 model a few days ago. My old cassette player is a drag to use > when this new technology is available. > > The T30 is supported by libgphoto2 and shows up in gtkam. The Konqueror > kioslave, kamera, doesn't find it. Apart from that, can someone tell me > where to go for information on what is involved in transferring tunes to this > little beast? Like where do the song titles come from? I have never made an > music CD so I am still in the Neanderthal age I guess. > > If anyone has an idea what program to use for the transfers that would be > nice, since gtkam downloads pictures but doesn't transfer to the camera [ in > this case a music device ]. > > Apparently I could just record music on the line in but there wouldn't be any > song index. I might try that however with an audiobook that I recently > downloaded from Librivox. Probably use less memory if I transferred the .ogg > file, ?? According to iriver, the T30 is an MTP device in Europe and North America, but a UMS device everywhere else, and the firmware is available in both versions. UMS is a generic usb storage device, MTP is microsoft's transfer protocol. Here is iriver's answer on how to concert your device to UMS (you will need to find someone with a windows machines to do this of course): http://www.iriver.com/html/support/faq/sufq_view.asp?searchProductIdx=73&searchString=ums&page=1&idx=387&tmpSearchProductIdx=&tmpSearchString= -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 17:28:03 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:28:03 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <20060704132103.GA13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> <20060704132103.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990607041028p2f31ed2bsd92cdf59ee4494b6@mail.gmail.com> On 7/4/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Here is iriver's answer on how to concert your device to UMS (you will > need to find someone with a windows machines to do this of course): > http://www.iriver.com/html/support/faq/sufq_view.asp?searchProductIdx=73&searchString=ums&page=1&idx=387&tmpSearchProductIdx=&tmpSearchString= Hey thanks a lot for the tip. A friend of mine just picked up an iRiver and he was muddling through this very same dilema the other day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 18:00:31 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:00:31 -0400 Subject: IRiver mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <20060704031435.GA5869-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <200607032114.42933.mervc@eol.ca> <20060704031435.GA5869@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <200607041400.31933.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 03 July 2006 23:14, Neil Watson wrote: > You might start at freshmeat: > http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=iriver§ion=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 > > I have an older flash Iriver. It works pretty well with the ifp_gui > application. Thanks to everyone for the speedy help. I gather that this is a different protocol than the ifp_gui. I think it was at that site that I saw mention of the gphoto2 coverage of this series of players, about 5 of them I think. Now to peruse all those sites. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 20:22:10 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:22:10 -0400 Subject: yard sale Message-ID: <20060704202210.32008.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> I am having a yard sale this weekend: 86 Albertus Ave (eight blocks north of Eglinton, off the west side of Yonge St.). I'm lettting you all know because their will be many things "computer" albeit legacy or just plain old: Computer (and other) books, give-aways, printers (Apple, dot matrix incl. ribbon cartridge and wide and regular continuous feed paper). Frames. Kitchen supplies, Macintosh IIsi complete system with Stylewriter printer. Baskets. Set of dining room chairs. Wicker swivel chairs. PS/1 computer with manual. Joystick, mouses. Toddler life jacket. I'll update this again in a day or two if I find anything else woth mentioning in detail. My main intention is that things go somewhere they'll be used. The studd may end up at reSource if that place exist (by the same name). I'd like to think the stuff is at least worth picking up (so I don't have to deliver). I don't have unlimited time for such things anyway as I now live in Timmins. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agenkin-CTfmHW0BDg5pPcNj/TqqnQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 4 21:39:13 2006 From: agenkin-CTfmHW0BDg5pPcNj/TqqnQ at public.gmane.org (Arcady Genkin) Date: 4 Jul 2006 17:39:13 -0400 Subject: Sysadmin job position at the UofT Message-ID: Hi, all: This may be of interest to anyone looking for a Unix sysadmin job. Please don't send your resumes to me: I can't accept them. The applications should be sent to the Human Resources department, as it is detailed in the instructions below: -------------------------------------------------------------------- The University of Toronto, Dept. of Computer Science is seeking to hire a System Administrator. Job posting details and instructions for application can be found here: http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~jdd/cdf/cjob588.htm Applications via email and late applications will not be considered. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheers, -- Arcady Genkin : CDF Systems Administrator http://www.cdf.toronto.edu/~agenkin/contact.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 16:06:04 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:06:04 -0400 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial Message-ID: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> For those of you still following this case: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 16:25:07 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:25:07 -0400 Subject: Hardware monitoring. Message-ID: <2274b9c30607050925k5498f8f4ob2b6a6313fb2f693@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, We have been investigating ways to monitor the underlying hardware on our linux machines. I've looked into using the following tools: net-snmp lm_sensors smartd hal Is anyone using anything else to detect failures and gather hardware stats? Thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 17:18:28 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:18:28 -0400 Subject: Hardware monitoring. In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30607050925k5498f8f4ob2b6a6313fb2f693-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30607050925k5498f8f4ob2b6a6313fb2f693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well. Are you using servers, or desktops as servers? If they're servers, then the PSP for HP gear, and OMS for Dell gear is what you want; IBM gear has an equivalent as well. All for Linux, of course. They all interface with net-snmp, for status/health polling, and failure/error trapping. If they're generic servers (or Sun servers), you're mostly out of luck. A failure will be detected when the box goes down. About the only thing you can reliably check for is disk failure in a RAID set (and some somewhat inadequate SMART stuff); anything else won't be redundant enough to matter. A good hack job is needed, pretty much. -- Vlad On 7/5/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > We have been investigating ways to monitor the underlying hardware on > our linux machines. I've looked into using the following tools: > > net-snmp > lm_sensors > smartd > hal > > Is anyone using anything else to detect failures and gather hardware stats? > > Thanks, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 17:29:20 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:29:20 -0400 Subject: Hardware monitoring. In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30607050925k5498f8f4ob2b6a6313fb2f693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30607051029x558360ex37b5f20d4df138ad@mail.gmail.com> Hi Vlad, Thanks for the response. We'll be using linux in our server environment. We have yet to standardize on a distro or hardware platform (redhat or suse, and sun or ibm). I believe IBM director works in linux. Im trying to compile is list of non hardware/distro specific tools. --kyleo On 7/5/06, Vlad wrote: > Well. Are you using servers, or desktops as servers? > > If they're servers, then the PSP for HP gear, and OMS for Dell > gear is what you want; IBM gear has an equivalent as well. All for > Linux, of course. They all interface with net-snmp, for status/health > polling, and failure/error trapping. > > If they're generic servers (or Sun servers), you're mostly out > of luck. A failure will be detected when the box goes down. About the > only thing you can reliably check for is disk failure in a RAID set > (and some somewhat inadequate SMART stuff); anything else won't be > redundant enough to matter. > A good hack job is needed, pretty much. > > > -- Vlad > > On 7/5/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > We have been investigating ways to monitor the underlying hardware on > > our linux machines. I've looked into using the following tools: > > > > net-snmp > > lm_sensors > > smartd > > hal > > > > Is anyone using anything else to detect failures and gather hardware > stats? > > > > Thanks, > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > end > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 17:39:33 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: <44ABE36C.7040403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > For those of you still following this case: > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 I think what our society needs is greater penalties for bringing about vexatious law suites. To be able to tie up other parties in the courts for years on scant evidence is criminal. We need to deal with this. It's interesting that Rob Enderle tries to claim that having more than half of their claims dismissed is actually beneficial to The SCO Group. I don't think the logic in his argument is very strong but then historically I've rarely if ever agreed with comments made by Mr Enderle. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 17:57:11 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: <44ABE36C.7040403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060705175711.80397.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > For those of you still following this case: > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 It is all good, if sick fun to watch SCO self-destruct. Further we need to keep in mind that the claims that were dismissed were ones where SCO provided ZERO evidence that IBM had done something wrong. Of the remaining claims, the claims appear to this non-lawyer to be total @#$% but at least SCO has offered something (anything) to back up the claim that IBM has done something wrong. I do have a new SCO T-shirt with some of their legal claims that I plan to sell for $$$ after SCO is turned into a smoking crater as a leason to others :-) . My only question is who will launch the last airstrike (legal strike?) against SCO? IBM? Red Hat? Novell? Autozone? SCO shareholders? Someone SCO has not sued yet? :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 18:05:24 2006 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:05:24 -0400 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00f601c6a05d$96beb0c0$c601a8c0@plex31> "Our" society does have penalties for this type of behaviour. American society, it appears - does not... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Robert Brockway Sent: 5-Jul-06 1:40 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial On Wed, 5 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > For those of you still following this case: > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 I think what our society needs is greater penalties for bringing about vexatious law suites. To be able to tie up other parties in the courts for years on scant evidence is criminal. We need to deal with this. It's interesting that Rob Enderle tries to claim that having more than half of their claims dismissed is actually beneficial to The SCO Group. I don't think the logic in his argument is very strong but then historically I've rarely if ever agreed with comments made by Mr Enderle. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 19:27:51 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:27:51 +0000 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: References: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> Message-ID: On 7/5/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > It's interesting that Rob Enderle tries to claim that having more than > half of their claims dismissed is actually beneficial to The SCO Group. I > don't think the logic in his argument is very strong but then historically > I've rarely if ever agreed with comments made by Mr Enderle. Hmm. The notion that dismissal is "good because it lets them concentrate on the remaining attacks" strikes me as pretty weak. If he had instead suggested that the result was good for them in that it demonstrated that the remaining claims "weren't easily dismissed," I'd have a harder time arguing with it. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 23:41:19 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:41:19 -0400 Subject: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP Message-ID: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> I have installed Ubuntu (and am quite impressed with this distro!) But I can't access shared directories. I am prompted for a user and password. It does not works and just loops at the prompt. I am sharing my home directory, and trying to use my Ubuntu account. Any ideas? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 02:32:31 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:32:31 -0400 Subject: Solved: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP In-Reply-To: <44AC4E1F.6090602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44AC763F.6050505@rogers.com> I forgot the smbpasswd step :( I am really, really impressed with this distribution. And the meaning of Ubantu. Highly recommended! Stephen wrote: > I have installed Ubuntu (and am quite impressed with this distro!) > > But I can't access shared directories. > > I am prompted for a user and password. It does not works and just > loops at the prompt. > > I am sharing my home directory, and trying to use my Ubuntu account. > > Any ideas? > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 20:15:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:15:40 -0400 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: <20060705175711.80397.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060705175711.80397.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44AC1DEC.4090404@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> For those of you still following this case: >> >> > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 > > It is all good, if sick fun to watch SCO > self-destruct. > > Further we need to keep in mind that the claims that > were dismissed were ones where SCO provided ZERO > evidence that IBM had done something wrong. Of the > remaining claims, the claims appear to this non-lawyer > to be total @#$% but at least SCO has offered > something (anything) to back up the claim that IBM has > done something wrong. What's really fun, is reading Groklaw and finding out how SCO, Caldera or other predecessor actually released the code etc., that SCO is claiming IBM stole. Another good laugh, is when they claim IP over stuff like ELF, or standard C headers etc. Also, wasn't it closer to two thirds of their claims that got tossed? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 5 20:08:49 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:08:49 -0400 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: <44ABE36C.7040403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> Message-ID: <44AC1C51.4010105@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > For those of you still following this case: > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 And, as usual, Rob Enderle has to put his usual anti-IBM spin on it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 03:18:23 2006 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:18:23 -0400 Subject: More than half of SCO's claims are dismissed before trial In-Reply-To: References: <44ABE36C.7040403@telly.org> Message-ID: <200607052318.23676.glayng@sympatico.ca> Logic... and... Enderle... Those two words do not belong in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence. Enderle gets his definition of "logic" from an episode of classic Star Trek. On July 5, 2006 13:39, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > For those of you still following this case: > > > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190200070 > > I think what our society needs is greater penalties for bringing about > vexatious law suites. To be able to tie up other parties in the courts > for years on scant evidence is criminal. We need to deal with this. > > It's interesting that Rob Enderle tries to claim that having more than > half of their claims dismissed is actually beneficial to The SCO Group. I > don't think the logic in his argument is very strong but then historically > I've rarely if ever agreed with comments made by Mr Enderle. > > Cheers, > > Rob -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 15:49:07 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:49:07 -0400 Subject: battery best practices Message-ID: <44AD30F3.30907@alteeve.com> Hi all, I got a new battery for my aging laptop :). This got me thinking; given that almost every day I use the laptop on batteries what would be better for the long-term life of the battery: - Fully discharge it before plugging it back in (one or twice a day) - Plug it in as soon as I can. The first option will prevent memory (it's LiIon), but the second option doesn't draw on the battery as much. Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 16:30:51 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:30:51 -0400 Subject: battery best practices Message-ID: <44AD3ABB.5080006@rogers.com> You probably should have a look at this page that I found via Tux Mobile: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:00:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:00:23 -0400 Subject: battery best practices In-Reply-To: <44AD30F3.30907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44AD30F3.30907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060706170023.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I got a new battery for my aging laptop :). This got me thinking; > given that almost every day I use the laptop on batteries what would be > better for the long-term life of the battery: > > - Fully discharge it before plugging it back in (one or twice a day) > - Plug it in as soon as I can. > > The first option will prevent memory (it's LiIon), but the second > option doesn't draw on the battery as much. According to what I have read, draining a lithium ion battery past about 40 to 50% is actually bad for it's life. Charging it before it gets that low makes it last longer. It certainly does not have the memory effect of older battery types. It does have other characteristics though. For example from http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm it says: "A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges." The battery level measurement however does on some systems occationally need calibration, which requires doing a full complete discharge. I have seen people claim they do this every 30 to 50 charges, to keep the battery meter fairly accurate. The page above is a great read for lithium ion batteries. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:00:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:00:54 -0400 Subject: battery best practices In-Reply-To: <44AD3ABB.5080006-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44AD3ABB.5080006@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060706170054.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 12:30:51PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > You probably should have a look at this page that I found via Tux Mobile: > > http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm Wow you found the same page as me (just sooner than I did). :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:04:38 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:04:38 -0400 Subject: battery best practices In-Reply-To: <20060706170054.GC13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44AD3ABB.5080006@rogers.com> <20060706170054.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 12:30:51PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: >> You probably should have a look at this page that I found via Tux Mobile: >> >> http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm > > Wow you found the same page as me (just sooner than I did). :) I've used it in the past too. Google seems to like it and the content is excellent. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:12:30 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:12:30 -0400 Subject: best battery practices Message-ID: <44AD447E.4070801@rogers.com> Lennart Sorenson wrote: > Wow you found the same page as me (just sooner than I did) Actually, I had a previous need to access that page. I used to be the owner of a Toshiba A70. I now have an Acer Aspire 5003. Extended warranties are a wonderful thing. :p John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From be_a_sport-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:17:38 2006 From: be_a_sport-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kush) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:17:38 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fsf-friends] Open Document Formats:Microsoft succumbs to public pressure] Message-ID: <44AD45B2.70101@rogers.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Fsf-friends] Open Document Formats:Microsoft succumbs to public pressure Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:48:02 +0530 From: James Mathew Reply-To: Principal Support List of FSF-India To: Principal Support List of FSF-India ** http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5153350.stm -- HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! _______________________________________________ Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends-rmfFjpsnoN/eAiWJgb33RQ at public.gmane.org http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 17:41:47 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fwd: [Fsf-friends] Open Document Formats:Microsoft succumbs to public pressure] In-Reply-To: <44AD45B2.70101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44AD45B2.70101@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Kush wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [Fsf-friends] Open Document Formats:Microsoft succumbs to > public pressure > Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:48:02 +0530 > From: James Mathew > Reply-To: Principal Support List of FSF-India > > To: Principal Support List of FSF-India > > > > ** > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5153350.stm MS: OK. OK, we'll set up an "OS" project to build an ODF killer. Er, we mean translator. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 13:42:04 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:42:04 -0400 Subject: Hardware monitoring. In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30607050925k5498f8f4ob2b6a6313fb2f693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200607060942.04880.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 13:18, Vlad wrote: > Well. Are you using servers, or desktops as servers? > > If they're servers, then the PSP for HP gear, and OMS for Dell > gear is what you want; IBM gear has an equivalent as well. All for > Linux, of course. They all interface with net-snmp, for status/health > polling, and failure/error trapping. IBM has director agents, raidman (for ServeRAID) and probably a few other things. The Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) might let you do cross platform (at least cross-vendor) monitoring in a standardized way. You'll need IPMI drivers for the specific platform you're on but above that the monitoring layer can be standardized (in theory). Check out dmtf.org, ipmitool, OpenWBEM, etc. I haven't had the time yet to find out if these things are useable but if they are then I expect it's a step in the right direction. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 18:08:20 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:08:20 -0400 Subject: Solved: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP In-Reply-To: <44AC763F.6050505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> <44AC763F.6050505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200607061408.20641.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 22:32, Stephen wrote: > I forgot the smbpasswd step :( > > I am really, really impressed with this distribution. And the meaning of > Ubantu. > > Highly recommended! > > Wait til you find out how out of date a lot of the stuff is. eg. you need Debian repositories if you have any new hardware and all reccomendations say not to use Debian. For me, the Kubuntu version makes more sense. Do you get the idea I am not impressed? -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 18:25:28 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:25:28 -0400 Subject: Solved: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP In-Reply-To: <200607061408.20641.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> <44AC763F.6050505@rogers.com> <200607061408.20641.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <44AD5598.30601@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > Wait til you find out how out of date a lot of the stuff is. eg. you need > Debian repositories if you have any new hardware and all reccomendations say > not to use Debian. For me, the Kubuntu version makes more sense. Do you get > the idea I am not impressed? > Kubuntu is just one of the available GUI shells for Ubuntu. Not sure I follow you. Yes, Ubuntu was based on Debian, but there is a lot of well funded support. My hardware is reasonably new, and I had no trouble with the install. But I did find it curious that there were about 100 packages to update. The disk image I downloaded is dated June 2006! Bottom line, in less than three hours I got a usable and fairly intuitive desktop, and configured servers for Apache with PHP, MySQL and Samba. My virtual hosts are created, WIP copied to the home directories via SMB, and MySQL listens to local network computers. Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 21:46:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:46:34 -0400 Subject: Solved: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP In-Reply-To: <200607061408.20641.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> <44AC763F.6050505@rogers.com> <200607061408.20641.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060706214634.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 02:08:20PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > Wait til you find out how out of date a lot of the stuff is. eg. you need > Debian repositories if you have any new hardware and all reccomendations say > not to use Debian. For me, the Kubuntu version makes more sense. Do you get > the idea I am not impressed? Ubuntu, kubuntu and xubuntu are all version 6.06 last I checked. What is the difference in how up to date they are then? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 6 23:55:10 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:55:10 -0400 Subject: Solved: Problem Accessing SMB Server from Windows XP In-Reply-To: <200607061408.20641.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44AC4E1F.6090602@rogers.com> <44AC763F.6050505@rogers.com> <200607061408.20641.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060706195510.6e3a8f20.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:08:20 -0400 Merv Curley got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Wait til you find out how out of date a lot of the stuff is. Um, what colour is the sky on your planet? If anything, I hear complaints from developers that Ubuntu is packaging stuff *too soon*, ie. before it is tested, ie. 'bleeding edge'. I am running two test boxes, one Ubuntu and one XUbuntu. I don't know what you're looking at, but both have software available that is barely out of alpha, if you want it. Neither box had the slightest problem with any hardware, even the one with the ATI card ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 13:22:47 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:22:47 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab Message-ID: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for five years was forced to close it down last week by the school?s administration following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, school board-wide computing initiative. Article here, http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 Does anyone know more about this? Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 13:58:12 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:58:12 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6027.409-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44AE6874.9030505@telly.org> Meng Cheah wrote: > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for > five years was forced to close it down last week by the school?s > administration following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, > school board-wide computing initiative. > > Article here, > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > Does anyone know more about this? The article in my opinion is an accurate and fair explanation of the situation. Actually, I seem to recall that there were a few people on this list who have been working with or in the Toronto District School Board. If any of you could contact me off-list, it would be a great help. We have an opportunity to use this issue to influence the TDSB in a positive way, and any "insider" help we could get would be useful. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 14:16:58 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:16:58 -0400 Subject: redhat vs. suse Message-ID: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6@mail.gmail.com> We have finally made a decision to bring linux in our environment. I have been asked to choose an enterprise level distribution. In terms of support and market share the decision was narrowed to Redhat and Suse. We plan on using linux on both distributed and mainframe(ibm zseries) systems. Typically Redhat has owned the distributed and Suse the mainframe. I've used both extensively in the past and find Suse's support superior. I have found that Redhat makes a better product; not to say one distro is technically superior, but its suite of tools is easier to use. Has anyone else been asked to make a similar decision. Can you direct me to some srticles on the topic? Comments? Thanks, Kyle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 14:48:25 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6027.409-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for five years > was forced to close it down last week by the school?s administration > following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, school board-wide > computing initiative. > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 So now maybe high school kids will think linux is cool and rebelious? JV From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 14:53:01 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:53:01 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: John Vetterli wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: >> A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for >> five years was forced to close it down last week by the school?s >> administration following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, >> school board-wide computing initiative. >> http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > So now maybe high school kids will think linux is cool and rebelious? Yes, all 6 of them... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 14:53:12 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:53:12 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <2274b9c30607070753q39f39d3atd9c3e93db20eb028@mail.gmail.com> with any luck! On 7/7/06, John Vetterli wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for five > years > > was forced to close it down last week by the school's administration > > following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, school board-wide > > computing initiative. > > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > So now maybe high school kids will think linux is cool and rebelious? > > JV > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 15:58:32 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:58:32 -0400 Subject: redhat vs. suse In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060707115832.6cc6b493.tleslie@tcn.net> I think the ability of the staff to work with one or the other is so important, it dwarfs the other points (except maybe support, if there is a big difference between distros). I choose SUSE because they are driving the linux desktop much more so then another distro, and there is some benifits, from a staffing point of view, to have the server environment and desktop environment being the same distro, so SUSE has worked well for me because of that. If desktop isn't a issue, i'd say suse vs. redhat is a tie as far as what you can do with them, and thus if suse support is better, go with suse. -tl On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:16:58 -0400 "Kyle O'Donnell" wrote: > We have finally made a decision to bring linux in our environment. I > have been asked to choose an enterprise level distribution. In terms > of support and market share the decision was narrowed to Redhat and > Suse. We plan on using linux on both distributed and mainframe(ibm > zseries) systems. Typically Redhat has owned the distributed and Suse > the mainframe. I've used both extensively in the past and find Suse's > support superior. I have found that Redhat makes a better product; > not to say one distro is technically superior, but its suite of tools > is easier to use. > > Has anyone else been asked to make a similar decision. Can you direct > me to some srticles on the topic? > > Comments? > > Thanks, > Kyle > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 16:18:02 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:18:02 -0400 Subject: redhat vs. suse In-Reply-To: <20060707115832.6cc6b493.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6@mail.gmail.com> <20060707115832.6cc6b493.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <2274b9c30607070918j39c23941m5ac37385be00f7f7@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the feedback Ted. We do not intend to use linux in our desktop environment. Although Suse support is better, they do not have a large North American presence. Independant Software Vendor (ISV) support is also key, which Redhat seems to have more of ( although suse is making up ground fast). --kyleo On 7/7/06, ted leslie wrote: > > I think the ability of the staff to work with one or the other is > so important, it dwarfs the other points (except maybe support, if there is > a big difference between > distros). > I choose SUSE because they are driving the linux desktop much more so then > another distro, > and there is some benifits, from a staffing point of view, to have the > server environment and > desktop environment being the same distro, so SUSE has worked well for me > because of that. > If desktop isn't a issue, i'd say suse vs. redhat is a tie as far as what > you can do with them, > and thus if suse support is better, go with suse. > > -tl > > On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:16:58 -0400 > "Kyle O'Donnell" wrote: > > > We have finally made a decision to bring linux in our environment. I > > have been asked to choose an enterprise level distribution. In terms > > of support and market share the decision was narrowed to Redhat and > > Suse. We plan on using linux on both distributed and mainframe(ibm > > zseries) systems. Typically Redhat has owned the distributed and Suse > > the mainframe. I've used both extensively in the past and find Suse's > > support superior. I have found that Redhat makes a better product; > > not to say one distro is technically superior, but its suite of tools > > is easier to use. > > > > Has anyone else been asked to make a similar decision. Can you direct > > me to some srticles on the topic? > > > > Comments? > > > > Thanks, > > Kyle > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 16:23:21 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060707162321.54585.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Vetterli wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running > a Linux lab for five years > > was forced to close it down last week by the > school?s administration > > following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, > school board-wide > > computing initiative. > > > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > So now maybe high school kids will think linux is > cool and rebelious? Psssst, hey kid, wantta try the hard stuff, the stuff the school and you folks don't want ya to have. Well, I gotta a Knoppix CD here, best thing is first hit is free... Yea, it has all the good stuff, a gcc compiler even, we are talking the hard core GNU stuff... If you find this stuff lights up your brain I can get ya the real hard core Debian stuff, which will really blow your mind.... Yea, the BSA thugs will bust your chops if they see you with this stuff, but hey you can live a little... Yea, you too can become a dealer, I can cut you get a percentage... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 21:49:52 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:49:52 -0400 Subject: redhat vs. suse In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AED700.4080602@georgetown.wehave.net> Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > We have finally made a decision to bring linux in our environment. I > have been asked to choose an enterprise level distribution. In terms > of support and market share the decision was narrowed to Redhat and > Suse. We plan on using linux on both distributed and mainframe(ibm > zseries) systems. Typically Redhat has owned the distributed and Suse > the mainframe. I've used both extensively in the past and find Suse's > support superior. I have found that Redhat makes a better product; > not to say one distro is technically superior, but its suite of tools > is easier to use. > > Has anyone else been asked to make a similar decision. Can you direct > me to some srticles on the topic? I did not make the decision but I'm just leaving an engagement that had a large number of SuSE deployments. This was my first exposure to SuSE and as far as the distros go I don't have much preference, they all have their peculiarities. Where SuSE is still losing out I think is support for third part software, Oracle and lots of smaller software vendors. There I saw that documentation and expectations were all heavily tilted towards Redhat. Vendors that did support SuSE were often fixated on SLES8 despite SLES9 having been around for ages and SLES10 being just around the corner. I would look at the software you are going to be running primarily and see if it looks like one choice or the other might offer you advantages. SuSE is catching up on the vendor support but it's still not up to Redhat support levels as far as I see. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 21:56:09 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 07 Jul 2006 17:56:09 -0400 Subject: redhat vs. suse In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30607070918j39c23941m5ac37385be00f7f7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30607070716m316e0f74gfb086d66b09900e6@mail.gmail.com> <20060707115832.6cc6b493.tleslie@tcn.net> <2274b9c30607070918j39c23941m5ac37385be00f7f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Kyle O'Donnell" writes: > Thanks for the feedback Ted. > > We do not intend to use linux in our desktop environment. > > Although Suse support is better, they do not have a large North > American presence. Independant Software Vendor (ISV) support is also > key, which Redhat seems to have more of ( although suse is making up > ground fast). Don't rule out ubuntu. They're saying that their releases will be support for 5 years on the server starting with 6.06. That's why it was delayed. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 7 22:11:13 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 23:11:13 +0100 Subject: User groups or mailing list for Openview In-Reply-To: <20060606141932.GB27683-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060606141932.GB27683@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <44AEDC01.30407@quadratic.net> Neil Watson wrote: > Does anyone know of any active user groups or mailing list for HP > Openview? > Dude, You need ITRC http://www.itrc.hp.com/ It's support for all IT things HP. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 01:38:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 20:38:13 -0500 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6027.409-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7@mail.gmail.com> There was a high school which had a Linux computer lab? If I started out on Linux I would be totally different today. But nooo.. DOS and later Windows 3.1.. or the alternative was an array of ICONs. Nobody took those seriously. The same goes with programming.. As a starting language I had Turing instead of BASIC. Sigh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 03:13:27 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 23:13:27 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <20060707162321.54585.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060707162321.54585.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > Psssst, hey kid, wantta try the hard stuff, the stuff > the school and you folks don't want ya to have. Well, > I gotta a Knoppix CD here, best thing is first hit is > free... Yea, it has all the good stuff, a gcc compiler > even, we are talking the hard core GNU stuff... If you > find this stuff lights up your brain I can get ya the > real hard core Debian stuff, which will really blow > your mind.... Yea, the BSA thugs will bust your chops > if they see you with this stuff, but hey you can live > a little... > > Yea, you too can become a dealer, I can cut you get a > percentage... Brilliant! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 03:35:17 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 23:35:17 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6027.409-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44AEEFB5.22981.AEAEC83@sciguy.vex.net> As a teacher, and taking this from the point of view of teacher/administration politics, this was a deliberate slap in the face to the teacher. This was obviously intentionally political. Reading between the lines, Montgomery was too stubborn to compromise his lab in ways that would boost enrollment. Prinicipal gets tired on wasting school salary on a teacher that teaches an undersized classroom, so MacKinnon switches all the computers to Gatesware when he's not looking. Back-stabbing, ugly school politics in its classic, paternalistic form. Paul King On 7 Jul 2006 at 9:22, Meng Cheah wrote: > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for five > years was forced to close it down last week by the school??s > administration following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, school > board-wide computing initiative. > > Article here, > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > Does anyone know more about this? > > Meng Cheah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1650 (20060707) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 03:40:25 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 23:40:25 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44AEF0E9.4755.AEF9E48@sciguy.vex.net> On 7 Jul 2006 at 20:38, Sy Ali wrote: > The same goes with programming.. As a starting language I had Turing > instead of BASIC. Sigh. > -- Actually, that sounds like *you* were the lucky one. At least you learned how to write a structural program. :-) Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 04:29:39 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:29:39 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6874.9030505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> <44AE6874.9030505@telly.org> Message-ID: <200607080029.39834.marc@lijour.net> On July 7, 2006 09:58 am, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: > > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running a Linux lab for > > five years was forced to close it down last week by the school?s > > administration following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, > > school board-wide computing initiative. > > > > Article here, > > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > > > Does anyone know more about this? > > The article in my opinion is an accurate and fair explanation of the > situation. > > Actually, I seem to recall that there were a few people on this list who > have been working with or in the Toronto District School Board. If any > of you could contact me off-list, it would be a great help. We have an > opportunity to use this issue to influence the TDSB in a positive way, > and any "insider" help we could get would be useful. I just got appointed at the Ministry of Education to work on the Technology curriculum and some IT projects. I would be more than happy to discuss what positive advantages Linux can bring to our education system, and in first instance to our kids. Regards, Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 05:39:32 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <20060707162321.54585.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060707162321.54585.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50242.207.188.64.26.1152337172.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Psssst, hey kid, wantta try the hard stuff, the stuff > the school and you folks don't want ya to have. Well, > I gotta a Knoppix CD here, best thing is first hit is > free... Yea, it has all the good stuff, a gcc compiler > even, we are talking the hard core GNU stuff... If you > find this stuff lights up your brain I can get ya the > real hard core Debian stuff, which will really blow > your mind.... Yea, the BSA thugs will bust your chops > if they see you with this stuff, but hey you can live > a little... > > Yea, you too can become a dealer, I can cut you get a > percentage... Sure, and instead of a handgun the kid gets a rolled up copy of the GPL to defend himself with. Incidentally, 'Freakonomics' has some interesting material on the economics of crack dealing. For front line 'workers', the pay is crummy - about the same as working at McDonalds - and the life expectancy very, very poor. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 15:08:11 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:08:11 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44AE6027.409-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44AFCA5B.8000607@utoronto.ca> I found an email address, MPCWeb-pBtd7HrT7eMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org, for Monarch Park Collegiate and I've sent them an email: Dear Sir or Madam, I'm absolutely stunned by Mr Mackinnon's decision to close down the Linux lab. I respectfully request that this decision be reviewed. Ivan Avery Frey. Toronto Resident Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 16:18:46 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:18:46 -0400 Subject: saturday computer drop-off Message-ID: <20060708161846.15727.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Does anyone know a place I could drop off old computers today? I've heard of reBoot (on Geary near Dufferin and something?) but I hear they are closed Saturdays. I'm only in Toronto for the rest of today. We're having a garage sale but the PCs aren't selling. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 16:27:55 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: saturday computer drop-off In-Reply-To: <20060708161846.15727.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060708161846.15727.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jul 2006, caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > Does anyone know a place I could drop off old computers today? I've heard of > reBoot (on Geary near Dufferin and something?) but I hear they are closed > Saturdays. I'm only in Toronto for the rest of today. We're having a garage > sale but the PCs aren't selling. What PCs do you have? (You don't sill have a Pied Piper kicking around, do you?) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 16:35:19 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:35:19 -0400 Subject: saturday computer drop-off In-Reply-To: References: <20060708161846.15727.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20060708163520.438.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson writes: > On Sat, 8 Jul 2006, caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Does anyone know a place I could drop off old computers today? I've heard >> of reBoot (on Geary near Dufferin and something?) but I hear they are >> closed Saturdays. I'm only in Toronto for the rest of today. We're having >> a garage sale but the PCs aren't selling. > > What PCs do you have? > > (You don't sill have a Pied Piper kicking around, do you?) No, nothing quite as old and sexy as that. I think Dad took the last of those to Prince Edward County to use as a paperweight. I think he ran Piper's Pub with one of those. The ones I have are old PCs - probably in the 100 or less MHz category - I doubt there's a hard drive in any of them that's more than a couple hundred megabytes. I'm not much of a snakeoil salesman, am I? Chris > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson > =================================================================== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 17:49:24 2006 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:49:24 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <20060707162321.54585.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060707162321.54585.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200607081349.25678.glayng@sympatico.ca> Never drink OJ while reading the TLUG messages Never drink OJ while reading the TLUG messages Never drink OJ while reading the TLUG messages Never drink OJ while reading the TLUG messages On July 7, 2006 12:23, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- John Vetterli wrote: > > On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > > > A Toronto high school teacher who had been running > > > > a Linux lab for five years > > > > > was forced to close it down last week by the > > > > school?s administration > > > > > following the implementation of a Microsoft-based, > > > > school board-wide > > > > > computing initiative. > > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=39987&cid=3 > > > So now maybe high school kids will think linux is > > cool and rebelious? > > Psssst, hey kid, wantta try the hard stuff, the stuff > the school and you folks don't want ya to have. Well, > I gotta a Knoppix CD here, best thing is first hit is > free... Yea, it has all the good stuff, a gcc compiler > even, we are talking the hard core GNU stuff... If you > find this stuff lights up your brain I can get ya the > real hard core Debian stuff, which will really blow > your mind.... Yea, the BSA thugs will bust your chops > if they see you with this stuff, but hey you can live > a little... > > Yea, you too can become a dealer, I can cut you get a > percentage... > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 18:16:17 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:16:17 -0400 Subject: battery best practices In-Reply-To: <44AD30F3.30907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44AD30F3.30907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44AFF671.8000905@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I got a new battery for my aging laptop :). This got me thinking; > given that almost every day I use the laptop on batteries what would be > better for the long-term life of the battery: > > - Fully discharge it before plugging it back in (one or twice a day) > - Plug it in as soon as I can. > > The first option will prevent memory (it's LiIon), but the second > option doesn't draw on the battery as much. > LiIon don't suffer from "memory" issues. They also don't like full discharges too much. My Sony camcorder manual recommended a full discharge of the LiIon battery once a year if it wasn't being used. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 19:25:45 2006 From: transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ahmad) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:25:45 -0400 Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44B006B9.301@sympatico.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > There was a high school which had a Linux computer lab? If I started > out on Linux I would be totally different today. > > But nooo.. DOS and later Windows 3.1.. or the alternative was an array > of ICONs. Nobody took those seriously. > > The same goes with programming.. As a starting language I had Turing > instead of BASIC. Sigh. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ICONs actually ran a flavour of UNIX at least that's what the admin told me when I was in high school. Turing is a far better language to start off with than BASIC. At least Turing has a formal concept of a pointer and is procedural. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 8 22:16:37 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 18:16:37 -0400 Subject: procedural, functional, *al programming In-Reply-To: <44B006B9.301-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7@mail.gmail.com> <44B006B9.301@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200607081816.37627.marc@lijour.net> > ICONs actually ran a flavour of UNIX at least that's what the admin told > me when I was in high school. Turing is a far better language to start > off with than BASIC. At least Turing has a formal concept of a pointer > and is procedural. I heard a discussion about introducing functional programming languages early in the education. What are your opinions about that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 9 01:23:16 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:23:16 -0400 Subject: procedural, functional, *al programming In-Reply-To: <200607081816.37627.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <44B006B9.301@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <44B02244.13911.27E839C@sciguy.vex.net> As a computer science teacher, I would say that to expose them to any teaching language other than a procedual-based one would cheat them out of a valuable education. I take it by "early in the education" you mean grade 10 or so. THat is what I am talking about. Kids that age would be well-taught with a language like Turing or OOT, although Delphi or similar high- level language would also be useful. U of T at one time (maybe they still do this) taught Java as a language to students with no previous computer science experience. Paul King On 8 Jul 2006 at 18:16, Marc Lijour wrote: > I heard a discussion about introducing functional programming languages early > in the education. What are your opinions about that? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1651 (20060708) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 9 04:24:24 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto high school expels Linux lab In-Reply-To: <44B006B9.301-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <44AE6027.409@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990607071838k4cec0402ua2f231a56aae7ab7@mail.gmail.com> <44B006B9.301@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: | From: Ahmad | | Sy Ali wrote: | > But nooo.. DOS and later Windows 3.1.. or the alternative was an array | > of ICONs. Nobody took those seriously. | > | > The same goes with programming.. As a starting language I had Turing | > instead of BASIC. Sigh. | ICONs actually ran a flavour of UNIX at least that's what the admin told me | when I was in high school. QNX, actually. Definitely not UNIX, but partly inspired by UNIX. Internally quite different, of course. QNX was first called QUNIX; I heard that AT&T lawyers' attention convinced them to rename it. A much better system than MSDOS for what it was used for. But there were problems with deployment: - the servers and network were overcommitted. This made them very slow. (Only the servers had hard drives. A good idea but left the system open to saturation.) - the hardware was made to government contract. Expensive. Overengineered. Product cycles were too long. So PC hardware advanced more quickly. - the marketplace was small so there were only a few software producers and products. I think that the products were actually good, but limited. Note: I never used an ICON. I did know the designers and implementors of Turing. Ric Holt's group at the U of T -- good guys. I also know the implementor of Logo, Richard Miller. In fact, for a brief while (a week or two) it was being developed in my basement. (Richard was the first person to complete a port UNIX, even before Bell Labs (by a week or two). He is also a full-time Plan 9 user.) | Turing is a far better language to start off with | than BASIC. At least Turing has a formal concept of a pointer and is | procedural. Yes. And I personally think that Logo is an even better choice for the very starting language. None of the fussiness of a language of the Algol family. Don't get me wrong, I think that the fussiness is important eventually, just not in the first few weeks. Basic? Nothing to recommend it except possibly some good books. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 11 15:20:46 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Printing Error Message-ID: <31869.72.38.22.170.1152631246.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Hey guys, I posted this to the richo list at linuxprinting.org last month but they haven't been able to help me yet so I thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas. I've upgraded some workstations to Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and now am unable to print to the shared printer (Richo Aficio 250) we have in the main office. I could get Ubuntu 5.10 Breezy to print using the generic PCL4 setup and the laserjet driver, but now nothing. After the upgrade every driver I use produces the same error. I get one page that has the following text on it: %!PS-Adobe-3.0 %%Title: PPR Test Page %%DocumentNeededResources: font Helvetica %%F This page is then followed by 50 blank pages. I have attempted to add extra fonts to see if this is a font related issue as could be indicated by the error, but no joy so far. Any thoughts? Stephen -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 11 20:49:20 2006 From: papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:49:20 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information Message-ID: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> How do I obtain hardware/software information from the command line on a Redhat Enterprise server? -- Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 01:23:24 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:23:24 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer Message-ID: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> I've ordered a pcHDTV 5500 card that will pick up regular NTSC as well as digital (ATSC) TV. The web site is http://pchdtv.com/ and they have *ONLY* linux drivers. According to their FAQ... Q: Is there a windows version of the drivers? A: Not at this time. (1... 2... 3... awwwwwwwwwwwww) The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET*, including the hard drive. I intend to use it as a tape-delay for recording movies that air at 3:00 AM, etc. The living room is next to my bedroom, and they share a common air duct, so noise would travel. The hardware requirements are... - *MUST HAVE* at least one PCI 2.2 slot (5 volts). - 128 megs of ram - 1.2 ghz Intel Pentium, or an AMD I intend to get well beyond the minimum. A large harddrive is also nice. I can pick up 5 local and 1 Buffalo HDTV stations broadcasting over the air on a digital tuner hooked up to my regular TV set. The bandwidth for high-definition is huge compared to ordinary NTSC TV. Even when output via a regular 19" TV, the high-def picture is stunning. Any recommendations here for a computer? I'm looking for a complete system. Advice on the pchdtv forum leans towards - Nvidia FX 5200 video card (quiet and cheap) - overkill power supply (quiet when a 450 watt supply is only pushing out 250 watts) - Barracuda drives (quiet) - A few extra slots would be nice -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 04:39:53 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:39:53 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie@tcn.net> > I intend to get well beyond the minimum. A large harddrive is also > nice. I can pick up 5 local and 1 Buffalo HDTV stations broadcasting > over the air on a digital tuner hooked up to my regular TV set. The Over the air as antenna on the roof? or free on cable? were do you live that your getting this? i have HD on cogeco (similar to Rogers), and there is about 14 HD channels, the US ones are PBS detroit and NBC CBS (not sure there buffalo) and what local stations have HD free to air? i am interested because i see global advertise to have HD but its not on cable :( If you can comment or have a resource on GTA area free to air HD ? I wonder if free to air HD around here is 1080i? or just the crappy 720 eHDTV? -tl > bandwidth for high-definition is huge compared to ordinary NTSC TV. > Even when output via a regular 19" TV, the high-def picture is stunning. > > Any recommendations here for a computer? I'm looking for a complete > system. Advice on the pchdtv forum leans towards > - Nvidia FX 5200 video card (quiet and cheap) > - overkill power supply (quiet when a 450 watt supply is only pushing > out 250 watts) > - Barracuda drives (quiet) > - A few extra slots would be nice > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 04:53:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:53:02 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <44B4802E.3020908@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET*, including the > hard drive. I intend to use it as a tape-delay for recording movies > that air at 3:00 AM, etc. The living room is next to my bedroom, and > they share a common air duct, so noise would travel. > I strongly suggest you check out http://www.silentpcreview.com/ I used it when shopping for my own quiet PC. I ended up buying an Antec Sonata II case and Barracuda HD. (Ie, a video card that doesn't need its own fan.) You can essentially pick any motherboard that will fit in the case, and the choice is huge. So you can pick your choice of slots, as well as your preference of AMD or Intel. There is a tradeoff of noise versus size. The smallest PCs need to use little fans, and little fans run noisier than large ones (generally because they need to turn faster). HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 06:27:28 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:27:28 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 7/11/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > - Barracuda drives (quiet) You'll probably also want to run your Linux kernel in laptop mode, to reduce the frequency of disk writes. Also, store /tmp in RAM, not on disk. -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 11:31:47 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:31:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> Jason Spiro wrote: > On 7/11/06, Walter Dnes wrote: >> - Barracuda drives (quiet) > You'll probably also want to run your Linux kernel in laptop mode, to > Also, store /tmp in RAM, not on disk. > Swap too. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 13:23:49 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:23:49 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060712132349.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 09:23:24PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've ordered a pcHDTV 5500 card that will pick up regular NTSC as well > as digital (ATSC) TV. The web site is http://pchdtv.com/ and they have > *ONLY* linux drivers. According to their FAQ... > Q: Is there a windows version of the drivers? > A: Not at this time. > (1... 2... 3... awwwwwwwwwwwww) > > The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET*, including the > hard drive. I intend to use it as a tape-delay for recording movies > that air at 3:00 AM, etc. The living room is next to my bedroom, and > they share a common air duct, so noise would travel. > > The hardware requirements are... > - *MUST HAVE* at least one PCI 2.2 slot (5 volts). > - 128 megs of ram > - 1.2 ghz Intel Pentium, or an AMD > > I intend to get well beyond the minimum. A large harddrive is also > nice. I can pick up 5 local and 1 Buffalo HDTV stations broadcasting > over the air on a digital tuner hooked up to my regular TV set. The > bandwidth for high-definition is huge compared to ordinary NTSC TV. > Even when output via a regular 19" TV, the high-def picture is stunning. > > Any recommendations here for a computer? I'm looking for a complete > system. Advice on the pchdtv forum leans towards > - Nvidia FX 5200 video card (quiet and cheap) > - overkill power supply (quiet when a 450 watt supply is only pushing > out 250 watts) > - Barracuda drives (quiet) You haven't met the original barracudas then. :) > - A few extra slots would be nice Well here is what I am currently using for mythtv: A7N8X-E-DX mainboard (5 PCI 5v slots) Athlon XP 1700+ (1.4GHz) 1GB ram (anything to make the system run smooth). cpu cooler with 80mm fan at about 2000rpm. silverstone LC16M case with silverstone 400W power supply with 120mm fan. A pair of WD1200JD drives. My work desktop machine is almost the same: A7N8X-E-DX Athlon 2500+ 1GB ram enermax case with 350W power supply one WD1200JD drive. The only way I can tell it is on is by looking at the power light or sticking my head right next to it to hear if the fans are spinning. I can hear the computers of other people in the office over mine. Every machine I have put the WD sata drives into, I haven't been able to hear the hard drive in. They are amazingly quiet in my experience, and quite reliable too. The only noise sources I have had to deal with were power supplies in the past, and cpu coolers with too high speed fans. I suppose a bad case fan could be noisy too. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 14:36:15 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:36:15 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990607120736p247b1084md341d5d7b24fcf64@mail.gmail.com> On 7/11/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET*, including the > hard drive. * Buy a regular computer. * Pay special attention to the drive and any other moving parts. Maybe specific brands are better than others. * Consider http://www.quietpc.ca and http://www.quietpcusa.com for quiet parts, if you like spending the money. * The only special part I bought is an Antec Sonata: http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=15138 My (in)complete parts list is here: http://jrandomhacker.info/Sy%27s_parts_list#System_3 and the Sonata is the only special part. In a dead silent room, my computer can just barely be heard.. the moving air from the fans. With any level of noise in the room it cannot be heard. Mounting the hard drives in the special mounts which came with the case made a difference, but if you get lower speed drives or the right brand/model it could make a difference. Aside from some decent fans and a case, you could get silentdrive enclosures for the hard drive(s) and be done with it. Or maybe put the hard drives in a file server in another room and use a network connection to get at all of that. Heck, you could be totally diskless if you set the system up that way. My various old quiet computing list has some resources at the bottom which may be of help for things like fans or enclosures: http://jrandomhacker.info/Quiet_computing You could go with watercooling -- for the cpu, chipset, video card, power supply.. everything.. but I think that's overkill. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 14:52:42 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:52:42 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L Message-ID: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> I have an undocumented script that performs egrep ^L. From what I can tell this is not a literal ^L. The ^L is only visible in VIM not if I cat the file. It must be some sort of control character. What does it mean and how can I represent it in a less cryptic fashion? -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:03:10 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:03:10 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B40ED0.60401-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> Paul Apking wrote: > How do I obtain hardware/software information from the command line on a > Redhat Enterprise server? > Perhaps you could be a little more specific with what you are trying to find out as there are a number of commands for this type of thing. In terms of software, rpm or yum might be the best way to check for installed/available packages. -- Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:16:39 2006 From: papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:16:39 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B50F2E.4090202-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> I'm trying to find the software that is installed, amount of memory, pci devices, usb devices, OS version, processor speed/type etc Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 Tom Watts wrote: > > Paul Apking wrote: >> How do I obtain hardware/software information from the command line >> on a Redhat Enterprise server? >> > > Perhaps you could be a little more specific with what you are trying > to find out as there are a number of commands for this type of thing. > In terms of software, rpm or yum might be the best way to check for > installed/available packages. > > -- > Tom Watts > wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:21:07 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:21:07 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: <20060712145242.GC5223-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: The classic ^L (control L, hex 12) is a form feed. When I cat a file with a form feed, I get a blank line. That's to say, This is a test of a form feed. ^LThat was it. in vim produces This is a test of a form feed. That was it. when I cat the file. (Use ^V to insert a control character in vim.) If you want to match for a literal ^L (caret, capital L), then I would escape the caret with \. On 7/12/06, Neil Watson wrote: > > I have an undocumented script that performs egrep ^L. From > what I can tell this is not a literal ^L. The ^L is only visible in VIM > not if I cat the file. It must be some sort of control character. What > does it mean and how can I represent it in a less cryptic fashion? > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 2 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:22:59 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:22:59 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B51257.3030305-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: How about [alex at fred alex]$ uname -a Linux fred.example.com 2.4.20-30.9 #1 Wed Feb 4 20:44:26 EST 2004 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux [alex at fred alex]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 8 model name : Pentium III (Coppermine) stepping : 6 cpu MHz : 1005.036 cache size : 256 KB fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 2 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse bogomips : 2005.40 Does that do what you want? On 7/12/06, Paul Apking wrote: > > I'm trying to find the software that is installed, amount of memory, pci > devices, usb devices, OS version, processor speed/type etc > > Regards, > > Paul Apking > > Network Administrator > The Equitable Trust Company > 30 St. Clair St. West > Toronto, Ont. > M4V 3A1 > Ph: 416-515-2299 > Mobile: 416-624-6079 > > > > Tom Watts wrote: > > > > Paul Apking wrote: > >> How do I obtain hardware/software information from the command line > >> on a Redhat Enterprise server? > >> > > > > Perhaps you could be a little more specific with what you are trying > > to find out as there are a number of commands for this type of thing. > > In terms of software, rpm or yum might be the best way to check for > > installed/available packages. > > > > -- > > Tom Watts > > wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:25:36 2006 From: papking-12iEnVOfRRN3dIFgGiF13tBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Paul Apking) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:25:36 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: <44B51470.7040905@equitabletrust.com> Is there anymore of a user friendly output from another command? Regards, Paul Apking Network Administrator The Equitable Trust Company 30 St. Clair St. West Toronto, Ont. M4V 3A1 Ph: 416-515-2299 Mobile: 416-624-6079 Alex Beamish wrote: > How about > > [alex at fred alex]$ uname -a > Linux fred.example.com 2.4.20-30.9 #1 Wed > Feb 4 20:44:26 EST 2004 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > [alex at fred alex]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo > processor : 0 > vendor_id : GenuineIntel > cpu family : 6 > model : 8 > model name : Pentium III (Coppermine) > stepping : 6 > cpu MHz : 1005.036 > cache size : 256 KB > fdiv_bug : no > hlt_bug : no > f00f_bug : no > coma_bug : no > fpu : yes > fpu_exception : yes > cpuid level : 2 > wp : yes > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca > cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse > bogomips : 2005.40 > > Does that do what you want? > > On 7/12/06, *Paul Apking* > wrote: > > I'm trying to find the software that is installed, amount of > memory, pci > devices, usb devices, OS version, processor speed/type etc > > Regards, > > Paul Apking > > Network Administrator > The Equitable Trust Company > 30 St. Clair St. West > Toronto, Ont. > M4V 3A1 > Ph: 416-515-2299 > Mobile: 416-624-6079 > > > > Tom Watts wrote: > > > > Paul Apking wrote: > >> How do I obtain hardware/software information from the command line > >> on a Redhat Enterprise server? > >> > > > > Perhaps you could be a little more specific with what you are trying > > to find out as there are a number of commands for this type of > thing. > > In terms of software, rpm or yum might be the best way to check for > > installed/available packages. > > > > -- > > Tom Watts > > wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:26:28 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:26:28 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060712152628.GD5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:21:07AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > The classic ^L (control L, hex 12) is a form feed. When I cat a file with > a form feed, I get a blank line. That's to say, Yes, it seems to be a form feed. How can I match for one of those? -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:27:04 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:27:04 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B51257.3030305-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: <44B514C8.7050504@uoguelph.ca> Paul Apking wrote: > I'm trying to find the software that is installed yum list installed | less > , amount of memory, pci devices, Not sure on this one...anyone else? > usb devices, lsusb > OS version, processor speed/type etc uname -a That won't give you speed though. > > Regards, > > Paul Apking > > Network Administrator > The Equitable Trust Company > 30 St. Clair St. West > Toronto, Ont. > M4V 3A1 > Ph: 416-515-2299 > Mobile: 416-624-6079 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:34:09 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 12 Jul 2006 11:34:09 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: <20060712152628.GD5223-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060712152628.GD5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Neil Watson writes: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:21:07AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > > The classic ^L (control L, hex 12) is a form feed. When I cat a file with > > a form feed, I get a blank line. That's to say, > > Yes, it seems to be a form feed. How can I match for one of those? If you are on the command line typing the grep or in vi writing the script, hold down the ctrl key while you hit 'v' and then 'l'. Works for other control characters like ^M (blech!!!), ^T (hard tab), ... HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:36:20 2006 From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:36:20 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B51257.3030305-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: <86F49C21-B7B9-47F8-B23D-560F47DC3765@gmail.com> On 12-Jul-2006, at 11:16 :39, Paul Apking wrote: > I'm trying to find the software that is installed, amount of > memory, pci devices, usb devices, OS version, processor speed/type etc I typically use the less distro-specific tools... CPU: $ cat /proc/cpuinfo memory: $ free $ cat /proc/swaps PCI: $ lspci USB: $ lsusb PCMCIA: $ cardctl info OS: $ lsb_release -a hardware: # lshw lsb_release isn't part of all distributions, but Redhat does have it. I can't remember enough rpm to use it, but that's what "man rpm" is for. -- Seneca Cunningham tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 15:51:18 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:51:18 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060712152628.GD5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 12 Jul 2006 11:34:09 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > Neil Watson writes: > > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:21:07AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > > > The classic ^L (control L, hex 12) is a form feed. When I cat a file > with > > > a form feed, I get a blank line. That's to say, > > > > Yes, it seems to be a form feed. How can I match for one of those? > > If you are on the command line typing the grep or in vi writing the > script, > hold down the ctrl key while you hit 'v' and then 'l'. > > Works for other control characters like ^M (blech!!!), ^T (hard tab), ... I thought ^I was the Tab .. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:08:35 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 12 Jul 2006 12:08:35 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060712152628.GD5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: "Alex Beamish" writes: > > If you are on the command line typing the grep or in vi writing the > > script, hold down the ctrl key while you hit 'v' and then 'l'. > > > > Works for other control characters like ^M (blech!!!), ^T (hard tab), ... > > I thought ^I was the Tab .. Yeah, my brainfart. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:08:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:08:27 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20060712160827.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:39:53AM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Over the air as antenna on the roof? or free on cable? > were do you live that your getting this? > i have HD on cogeco (similar to Rogers), and there is about 14 HD channels, > the US ones are PBS detroit and NBC CBS (not sure there buffalo) and > what local stations have HD free to air? i am interested because i see global advertise > to have HD but its not on cable :( > If you can comment or have a resource on GTA area free to air HD ? > I wonder if free to air HD around here is 1080i? or just the crappy 720 eHDTV? Well in Toronto there is currently these HDTV channels as far as I can tell (I don't have HDTV so I can't check it myself) all over the air: http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:12:18 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 12 Jul 2006 12:12:18 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20060712152628.GD5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > "Alex Beamish" writes: > > > Works for other control characters like ^M (blech!!!), ^T (hard tab), ... > > > > I thought ^I was the Tab .. > > Yeah, my brainfart. Yeah, yeah. responding to my own post, ... For hard tabs, I usually laze out and do the ^V-tabkey combo. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:09:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:09:24 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <44B4DDA3.9090806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Swap too. ;-) Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:34:05 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:34:05 -0400 Subject: help with egrep ^L In-Reply-To: <20060712145242.GC5223-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712145242.GC5223@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060712163405.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 10:52:42AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I have an undocumented script that performs egrep ^L. From > what I can tell this is not a literal ^L. The ^L is only visible in VIM > not if I cat the file. It must be some sort of control character. What > does it mean and how can I represent it in a less cryptic fashion? ^L is control-l, and it usually means page feed (on a printer) or clear screen (on a terminal). \014 should work in most places if they support octal notation. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:59:00 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:59:00 -0400 Subject: Printing Error In-Reply-To: <31869.72.38.22.170.1152631246.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <31869.72.38.22.170.1152631246.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <20060712165900.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 11:20:46AM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I posted this to the richo list at linuxprinting.org last month but they > haven't been able to help me yet so I thought I'd see if any of you had > any ideas. > > I've upgraded some workstations to Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and now am unable to > print to the shared printer (Richo Aficio 250) we have in the main office. > I could get Ubuntu 5.10 Breezy to print using the generic PCL4 setup and > the laserjet driver, but now nothing. > > After the upgrade every driver I use produces the same error. > > I get one page that has the following text on it: > %!PS-Adobe-3.0 %%Title: PPR Test Page %%DocumentNeededResources: font > Helvetica %%F > > This page is then followed by 50 blank pages. > > I have attempted to add extra fonts to see if this is a font related issue > as could be indicated by the error, but no joy so far. > > Any thoughts? Your setup is sending raw postscript to the printer. Your printer apparently wants PCL4. You have to make sure it is configured as that kind of printer, since by default printers are assumed to be postscript in unix. With cupsys it is rather easy, you just go to http://localhost:631/admin and configure the printer there with the right connection type and pick the printer model as a PCL4 or whatever it supports, printer, and cupsys takes care of the rest. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 17:51:48 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unix Unanimous Message-ID: Hi all. I'm going to the UU meeting tonight at U of T. I know they have dinner, is that after the meeting? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 17:56:45 2006 From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:56:45 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7A8909E3-32A3-4291-9A74-CE3E76F57FC8@gmail.com> On 12-Jul-2006, at 13:51 :48, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I'm going to the UU meeting tonight at U of T. I know > they have dinner, is that after the meeting? It's after the meeting. Hope you like Thai. -- Seneca Cunningham tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 17:58:11 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:58:11 -0400 Subject: Toronto Smalltalk Club In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The second meeting of the Tomb Robbers' Club, a Smalltalk club, is next Tuesday at 6:30 pm at Pauper's. http://www.brokentomb.com Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 19:04:18 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:04:18 +0000 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712160923.GI13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 7/12/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > Swap too. ;-) > > Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? No, no, what you want to do is to define a ramdisk, and declare your swap space to go in this area... There's a whole HOWTO on how to use ramdisks... http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/Ramdisk/ramdisk.html (Warning: Comments may be more sarcastic than they appear ;-). Back in the day, it was entirely useful when I put 256K of memory on my Atari 800XL, which allowed me to define a 192K ramdisk which was some 70K larger than the size of a floppy disk...) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 19:16:58 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:16:58 +0000 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B51470.7040905-SHEVDZ1kpJ4gvB26Rb+75tBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> <44B51470.7040905@equitabletrust.com> Message-ID: On 7/12/06, Paul Apking wrote: > Is there anymore of a user friendly output from another command? No, doing what you need to with this sort of information is considered to be a SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming). After all, the fields are all nicely colon delimited so that it's quite trivial to grep/cut the parts that you might need. There wind up being two choices, at this point: 1. You may behave as a completely helpless user that can only function if you're provided with a report in the exact form you require, or 2. It doesn't take a terribly high level of "ability for self-help" to write a script that extracts the data you require and format them in any arbitrary form that may be desired. Seneca's suggestions seem pretty sound to me; I would add two commands to hers: a) If on an RPM-based system, the command "rpm -qa" will list all packages installed b) If on a deb-based system, the command "dpkg -l" will list all packages installed You may need to get more detailed information; again, using a script on those package lists, combined with rpm/dpkg runs with extra options as may be determined from their respective manual pages, would be what is needed. It is common for SMOP to be used in an ironic fashion, where the one using the term believes that the Matter Of Programming is likely to be anything BUT simple; that's not my intent here... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 20:13:46 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > (Warning: Comments may be more sarcastic than they appear ;-). Back > in the day, it was entirely useful when I put 256K of memory on my > Atari 800XL, which allowed me to define a 192K ramdisk which was some > 70K larger than the size of a floppy disk...) This puts me in mind of the Commodore 64 floppy disk drive. To save money, Commodore had the same processor reading the drive mech as talking to the IEEE bus. As someone said: 'Loads programs faster than you can type them in!!! (But only just..)' -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 20:28:44 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:28:44 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1152736124.9424.59.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 16:13 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > This puts me in mind of the Commodore 64 floppy disk drive. To save money, > Commodore had the same processor reading the drive mech as talking to the > IEEE bus. As someone said: > > 'Loads programs faster than you can type them in!!! (But only just..)' I actually had the disassembled and commented version of the firmware for that drive. There were large areas of code that were commented as unused. The book went on to say that the OS for the drive was a hack from another dual-drive (iirc) system. In fact one could download different firmware to the drive to make it run as fast as a PCs could back them. One program that did this was Fast Hakem. Remember that? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 21:08:24 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:08:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. Isn't this why they invented round parentheses to go with && and || ;-) Peter From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 21:01:31 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:01:31 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712160923.GI13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Swap too. ;-) > > Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? More like 'waste a little more ram'. Using swap has a price as you know. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 17:32:54 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:32:54 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B514C8.7050504-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> <44B514C8.7050504@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <44B53246.8090605@georgetown.wehave.net> Tom Watts wrote: >> , amount of memory, pci devices, > > Not sure on this one...anyone else? On any modern computer you should be able to run dmidecode, it will give you a lot of motherboard information, right down to invidual DIMMs installed. For detailed PCI listings you can use "lspci -vv" (fewer Vs perhaps). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 21:10:38 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C64 drive: (Was) Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <1152736124.9424.59.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1152736124.9424.59.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <50917.207.188.64.26.1152738638.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > The book went on to say that the OS for the drive was a hack from > another dual-drive (iirc) system. > > In fact one could download different firmware to the drive to make it > run as fast as a PCs could back them. One program that did this was Fast > Hakem. Remember that? I don't recall Fast Hakem, nor was I aware that you could download firmware. That's interesting. I did have a dual 5 1/4 drive unit which I used with a PET. It was quite acceptably fast compared to other machines of that era. It had a 6502 microprocessor in the dual drive unit, which made it intelligent and was considered very sophisticated for the time. All this was before hard drives had made their way into the personal computer. Back in those days one of my friends had the misfortune to use an accounting system at McGill University in which apparently the system used a floppy drive as we would now use a hard drive. Eventually, the magnetic surface wore off the disk. Then she discovered that they were supposed to change the disk at regular intervals. I'm quite happy with today's technology, thank-you very much. Peter > > -- > John Van Ostrand > Net Direct Inc. > > Chief Technology Officer > 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 > map > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org > Ph: 519-883-1172 > ext.5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM > Hardware > Fx: 519-883-8533 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 20:38:31 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:38:31 -0400 Subject: How to obtain Hardware/Software information In-Reply-To: <44B514C8.7050504-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B40ED0.60401@equitabletrust.com> <44B50F2E.4090202@uoguelph.ca> <44B51257.3030305@equitabletrust.com> <44B514C8.7050504@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <44B55DC7.5080400@georgetown.wehave.net> Tom Watts wrote: >> , amount of memory, pci devices, > > Not sure on this one...anyone else? On any modern computer you should be able to run dmidecode, it will give you a lot of motherboard information, right down to invidual DIMMs installed. For detailed PCI listings you can use "lspci -vv" (fewer Vs perhaps). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 22:21:21 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:21:21 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B575E1.4020203@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I'm going to the UU meeting tonight at U of T. I know they > have dinner, is that after the meeting? Is UU anything like AA? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 22:24:52 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | > Walter Dnes : | > I intend to get well beyond the minimum. A large harddrive is also | > nice. I can pick up 5 local and 1 Buffalo HDTV stations broadcasting | > over the air on a digital tuner hooked up to my regular TV set. The | | Over the air as antenna on the roof? or free on cable? | were do you live that your getting this? | i have HD on cogeco (similar to Rogers), and there is about 14 HD channels, | the US ones are PBS detroit and NBC CBS (not sure there buffalo) and | what local stations have HD free to air? i am interested because i see global advertise | to have HD but its not on cable :( HD signals on cable is encrypted in a way that only cable-company-supplied receivers can decode. Even if the original signal was not encrypted. Walter's card cannot decrypt them. Another example of a monopoly trying to extend itself. I really hate that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 22:27:54 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: driving to Ottawa Linux Symposium? Message-ID: I'm going to OLS next week. I wouldn't mind a ride. Anybody on this list going? (I may or may not have a spot in Jo and Leah's Golf.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 22:30:55 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:30:55 -0400 Subject: driving to Ottawa Linux Symposium? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B5781F.7010304@georgetown.wehave.net> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm going to OLS next week. I wouldn't mind a ride. Anybody on this list > going? (I may or may not have a spot in Jo and Leah's Golf.) I'm going, I want to be heading out of the GTA by 12:30 on Tuesday, if that works for you drop me a private email. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 23:26:55 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:26:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20060712232655.GA9785@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:39:53AM -0400, ted leslie wrote > > > I intend to get well beyond the minimum. A large harddrive is also > > nice. I can pick up 5 local and 1 Buffalo HDTV stations broadcasting > > over the air on a digital tuner hooked up to my regular TV set. The > > Over the air as antenna on the roof? or free on cable? Over the air, as *OUTDOOR ANTENNA IN THE LIVING ROOM* (plus a pre-amp) > were do you live that your getting this? On the 5th storey of a condo, with a southerly exposure in Thornhill, near Promenade Mall. Actually, I was hoping to get more Buffalo stations. But a 16-storey condo was put up last year in direct line of site between me and the antenna farms in Grand Island where the Buffalo stations have their transmitters :( The fact that I'm getting PBS 43-1/43-2/43-3 is a weird fluke. In addition, I get local digital stations CBC English, CBC French, CTV, CITY, and Sun TV. For now, I've lashed up a second-hand digital TV tuner to the S-video input of my old regular 19" portable TV. Even for standard stuff on a regular monitor, digital broadcast is nice. *NO GHOSTING AT ALL*. With real digital broadcasts it's stunning, but I get the edges chopped off. I've already gotten a new sofa for the living room, and am on the prowl for a real HDTV. A 37" monitor (no tuner) is available for under $2000. The max that I want in my living cramped room is approx 42". They're currently $2500 to $3000. They should be under $2000 in a few months. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 23:27:23 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:27:23 -0400 Subject: /dev/shm versus ramdisk In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060712232723.GB9785@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:04:18PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote > On 7/12/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Swap too. ;-) > > > >Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? > > No, no, what you want to do is to define a ramdisk, and declare your > swap space to go in this area... There's a whole HOWTO on how to use > ramdisks... http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/Ramdisk/ramdisk.html [...Thread renamed to reflect actual topic...] Why would I want to create a ramdisk when /dev/shm is available? /dev/shm is dynamic. I.e, when there are no files on it, the memory is available to regular programs. Ramdisks grab a chunk of memory, and never let it go. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 23:27:23 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:27:23 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200607121927.23908.softquake@gmail.com> System: FC4. CD drive is a new one. It reports itself as: Vendor_info : 'HL-DT-ST' Identifikation : 'RW/DVD GCC-4481B' I did burning of CDRW in the past by using cdrecord or other tools. Now, I did try cdrecord and cdrskeen . Results the same. Like in the subject. But there is a blank CD in CD drive, of the type I did use in the past (though I used these CDs to record to from Windows and it was on a different machine). I have googled the subject, tens of pages. But no solution found. Let me know please anyone had a similar problem, or, better, just the solution ;) Don't ask me to put output garbage of different commands to the list. A lot of people had the same problem and searching google for "cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk!" will bring the same results or very similar results as mine. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 00:37:21 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:37:21 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44B595C1.2070607@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> (Warning: Comments may be more sarcastic than they appear ;-). Back >> in the day, it was entirely useful when I put 256K of memory on my >> Atari 800XL, which allowed me to define a 192K ramdisk which was some >> 70K larger than the size of a floppy disk...) > > This puts me in mind of the Commodore 64 floppy disk drive. To save money, > Commodore had the same processor reading the drive mech as talking to the > IEEE bus. As someone said: > > 'Loads programs faster than you can type them in!!! (But only just..)' > Back in my DOS/XT days, it was common to create a RAM disk to run games from. Back in those days an entire game would fit on one floppy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 00:38:42 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:38:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44B59612.1050204@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Swap too. ;-) >> >> Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? > > More like 'waste a little more ram'. Using swap has a price as you know. > But it's faster though. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 12 16:29:35 2006 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:29:35 -0400 Subject: Printing Error In-Reply-To: <31869.72.38.22.170.1152631246.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <31869.72.38.22.170.1152631246.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <44B5236F.4010406@pobox.com> Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Hey guys, > > I posted this to the richo list at linuxprinting.org last month but they > haven't been able to help me yet so I thought I'd see if any of you had > any ideas. > > I've upgraded some workstations to Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and now am unable to > print to the shared printer (Richo Aficio 250) we have in the main office. > I could get Ubuntu 5.10 Breezy to print using the generic PCL4 setup and > the laserjet driver, but now nothing. > Dapper broke my printing at home as well -- though I get about 50 pages of postscript -- but it's been a very low priority for me to fix. There have been a few posts at a KDE developer's blog http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/418 claiming that Ubuntu ships with a crippled CUPS, and giving instructions on how to un-cripple it. Perhaps the problems are related. If you fix it soon, please let me know, and save me the trouble of researching it for myself. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 06:31:57 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:31:57 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <200607121927.23908.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607121927.23908.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/12/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Let me know please anyone had a similar problem, or, better, just the > solution ;) Did you try using different software (e.g. cdrdao) or a different OS (e.g. Windows or Ubuntu LiveCD)? Does CD burning work from there? Do you know by any chance: Does the drive work OK in other machines? > Don't ask me to put output garbage of different commands to the list. A lot of > people had the same problem and searching google for "cdrecord: No disk / > Wrong disk!" will bring the same results or very similar results as mine. Why not? That's how troubleshooting is done. Kind regards, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 07:59:02 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:59:02 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Supermarket repackaging trick again Message-ID: Whz is it that every time I see something new from this company, I have this unbearable feeling of deja vu ? http://www.live.com/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 07:42:46 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 03:42:46 -0400 Subject: Why aren't hardware and OSes more standardized? (Was: C64 drive) Message-ID: On 7/12/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm quite happy with today's technology, thank-you very much. I am not. Today's technology is far too unreliable and hard to use for my taste. Why, after all this time, can't one buy one of ten types of Standard PC, with your choice of one of 10 Standard OSes, and since the Standard PC is guaranteed to have certain hardware components built-in, everything is guaranteed to work. Reminds me of Apple. Also, why can't one buy a computer, plug it into the, um, Internet jack in the wall, and click the Email button and your email will work right away? With just a fingerprint, and no username or password, if you so choose when you call Bell or Rogers to order Internet service. Regards, Jason -- When you open Windows, bugs get in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 07:46:09 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 03:46:09 -0400 Subject: Supermarket repackaging trick again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/13/06, Peter wrote: > > Whz is it that every time I see something new from this company, I have > this unbearable feeling of deja vu ? > > http://www.live.com/ > M$ Live may not be good now. (I checked into Office Live Basic today: free domain and free 30MB web hosting forever, as long as you use MS's online template-based webpage design tool, which does not work in Firefox, or you use MS FrontPage.) But MS has a lot of $ and resources, and Live will get better in the future. Hopefully they'll start respecting web standards better by then... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 10:41:43 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:41:43 -0400 Subject: SCO's next tactic Message-ID: <44B62367.503@rogers.com> ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 13:38:53 2006 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:38:53 -0400 Subject: : Message-ID: <1152797933.5302.0.camel@lnx2.scx.ca> unsubscribe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 13:35:22 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:35:22 -0400 Subject: Why aren't hardware and OSes more standardized? (Was: C64 drive) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Also, why can't one buy a computer, plug it into the, um, Internet >jack in the wall, and click the Email button and your email will work >right away? Try Apple. They don't do the finger[rint thing, but need very little else, especially if you use .mac for email/webhosting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 14:15:43 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:15:43 -0400 Subject: SCO's next tactic In-Reply-To: <44B62367.503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B62367.503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1152800143.4911.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Too bad SCO took the 'dummy' route as they had a great Linux distribution. The CEO ...whats his name?... Daryl made considerable $$ for himself in his quest for stupidity. Isn't that what business is all about. SCO does in fact have a loyal (all be it small) customer base. SCO Forum August 6-9, 2006 in Vegas. I went in 2003 for a look see. How about that Moscow hotel which sucked up 50 Million Canadian investment $$$ only to be scooped up at bargain basement prices by questionable authorities. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca "For the big words see dictionary.com" On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 06:41 -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 14:36:43 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unix Unanimous In-Reply-To: <44B575E1.4020203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B575E1.4020203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060713143643.31392.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. I'm going to the UU meeting tonight at U > of T. I know they > > have dinner, is that after the meeting? > > Is UU anything like AA? ;-) Sort of, UU like AA is a self help group. UU unlike AA is for people who don't want to quit :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 14:45:15 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:45:15 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... Message-ID: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> For about two weeks now I have had this problem with OpenOffice2.0.[2|3] where as soon as I enter any data into a cell and try to save OO crashes. I have tried doing complete purges of OO (including deleting my ~/.openoffice directory), searching and deleting every file of the system I could find related to it, changing versions (2.0.2 to 2.0.3), installing from the Debian testing repository... Last night my efforts even messed up my OS and I had to do a complete re-install but still I can't get the damn program to save. This is causing more than a little stress and Googling doesn't seem to point to anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? Files which I created three weeks ago in OO also die when I try to save edits. I installed from by converting the OpenOffice RPMS to DEB packages using 'alien' from the stable repos. I would happily try compiling from source if I could figure out how... A fairly desperate and frustrated, Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 14:58:55 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:58:55 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous In-Reply-To: <20060713143643.31392.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <44B575E1.4020203@rogers.com> <20060713143643.31392.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060713145855.GA5928@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 10:36:43AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >--- James Knott wrote: >> Robert Brockway wrote: >> > Hi all. I'm going to the UU meeting tonight at U >> of T. I know they >> > have dinner, is that after the meeting? >> >> Is UU anything like AA? ;-) > >Sort of, UU like AA is a self help group. UU unlike AA >is for people who don't want to quit :-) . ... or even halt ... or sleep :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:05:21 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:05:21 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B65C7B.5010104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison Kelly wrote: > For about two weeks now I have had this problem with OpenOffice2.0.[2|3] > where as soon as I enter any data into a cell and try to save OO > crashes. I have tried doing complete purges of OO (including deleting my > ~/.openoffice directory), searching and deleting every file of the > system I could find related to it, changing versions (2.0.2 to 2.0.3), > installing from the Debian testing repository... > > Last night my efforts even messed up my OS and I had to do a complete > re-install but still I can't get the damn program to save. This is > causing more than a little stress and Googling doesn't seem to point to > anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Files which I created three weeks ago in OO also die when I try to save > edits. I installed from by converting the OpenOffice RPMS to DEB > packages using 'alien' from the stable repos. I would happily try > compiling from source if I could figure out how... > > A fairly desperate and frustrated, Using Debian stable? Have you tried using the Debian packages proper? Ubuntu packages? How about klik openoffice? What about trying StarOffice? It's almost identical and you can download it for free too. Sounds bad, hope you get it sorted out soon, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:12:14 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:12:14 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B65C7B.5010104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison Kelly wrote: > For about two weeks now I have had this problem with OpenOffice2.0.[2|3] > where as soon as I enter any data into a cell and try to save OO > crashes. I have tried doing complete purges of OO (including deleting my > ~/.openoffice directory), searching and deleting every file of the > system I could find related to it, changing versions (2.0.2 to 2.0.3), > installing from the Debian testing repository... > > Last night my efforts even messed up my OS and I had to do a complete > re-install but still I can't get the damn program to save. This is > causing more than a little stress and Googling doesn't seem to point to > anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Files which I created three weeks ago in OO also die when I try to save > edits. I installed from by converting the OpenOffice RPMS to DEB > packages using 'alien' from the stable repos. I would happily try > compiling from source if I could figure out how... Oh, what about your java version? Try downloading the 1.5 java runtime environment (jre) from: http://java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp Install it as per their instructions, then run the following: "update-alternatives --config java" and then choose the 3rd option which should be your newly installed JRE. I've had lots of trouble with the 1.4 that installd by default on Debian and Ubuntu. I think that this should do the trick... Jamon (again) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:32:07 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:32:07 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44B66777.6060600@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> For about two weeks now I have had this problem with >> OpenOffice2.0.[2|3] where as soon as I enter any data into a cell and >> try to save OO crashes. I have tried doing complete purges of OO >> (including deleting my ~/.openoffice directory), searching and >> deleting every file of the system I could find related to it, changing >> versions (2.0.2 to 2.0.3), installing from the Debian testing >> repository... >> >> Last night my efforts even messed up my OS and I had to do a complete >> re-install but still I can't get the damn program to save. This is >> causing more than a little stress and Googling doesn't seem to point >> to anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? >> >> Files which I created three weeks ago in OO also die when I try to >> save edits. I installed from by converting the OpenOffice RPMS to DEB >> packages using 'alien' from the stable repos. I would happily try >> compiling from source if I could figure out how... > > Oh, what about your java version? Try downloading the 1.5 java runtime > environment (jre) from: > http://java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp > > Install it as per their instructions, then run the following: > "update-alternatives --config java" and then choose the 3rd option which > should be your newly installed JRE. I've had lots of trouble with the > 1.4 that installd by default on Debian and Ubuntu. I think that this > should do the trick... > > Jamon (again) When I posted that I had no java installed (same as before when it worked). I followed the link and am installing the source package now. I also re-downloaded and recreated the debs from alien under my new Debian install, *just in case* and I'll report back once it's all done. Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:37:55 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: False positives in /sbin/badblocks ? Message-ID: <20060713113755.egc30tw5wswsgkcw@mail.math.yorku.ca> I just got a new WD hard drive, 80GB, which I'm running in an Adaptec enclosure from my laptop (running Debian Sarge) via a USB 2.0 connection through an adapter in the PCMCIA slot (the machine natively has only USB 1.1). I decided to put the HDD through its paces using badblocks -w (the version that writes 0xaa, reads it, and repeats with 0x55, 0xff, 0x00). It found 19 allegedly bad blocks, out of 78157044, which I thought was a little disappointing. But when I checked them out by running "badblocks -w" on a small interval containing the supposedly bad block, none of them turned up bad the second time. (Also the tests with 0xaa, 0x55, 0xff, 0x00 yielded four disjoint sets of "bad" blocks, which was already suspicious.) So my current working hypothesis is that the hard drive is actually fine, no bad blocks at all, but every now and then there's a random error somewhere in the flow of sending information from CPU to PCMCIA to USB to adapter to hard disk and back. Does that sound right? If so, how concerned should I be about 19 errors in 40 billion chances (figuring it's a 32-bit bus, and there's a chance for error at read time and another at write time)? ----- Fine messaggio inoltrato. ----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:39:38 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:39:38 -0400 Subject: Serious OO / Debian problem Message-ID: <44B6693A.1040403@rogers.com> FWIW, .debs are available for OO 2.03 in Testing and Unstable. http://packages.debian.org/testing/editors/ Try changing your sources and then using apt again. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 15:43:32 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:43:32 -0400 Subject: Serious OO / Debian problem In-Reply-To: <44B6693A.1040403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B6693A.1040403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44B66A24.80604@alteeve.com> John McGregor wrote: > FWIW, .debs are available for OO 2.03 in Testing and Unstable. > http://packages.debian.org/testing/editors/ > > Try changing your sources and then using apt again. > > John Hehe, Weeeeell, yesterday I decided to try just that. Unfortunately, and like every time I've gone to Testing, my system crashed hard. Got to the point where fonts were gone, X was dead and only had access to shell... No USB and such. So there or not, I can't risk going back to testing yet. It's quite frustrating! :p What's new? How are things? Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 16:02:43 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:02:43 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Oh, what about your java version? Try downloading the 1.5 java runtime > environment (jre) from: > http://java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp > > Install it as per their instructions, then run the following: > "update-alternatives --config java" and then choose the 3rd option which > should be your newly installed JRE. I've had lots of trouble with the > 1.4 that installd by default on Debian and Ubuntu. I think that this > should do the trick... > > Jamon (again) *sigh* I installed the latest version, ran that 'update-alternatives' command (which reported there being no alternatives), re-aliened OpenOffice2.0.3 and did a fresh install with the same frustrating results. Edit, save, crash. This is causing me big problems! I can't work without a spreadsheet program... :( Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 16:04:25 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:04:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Seeing CPU flags under Windows Message-ID: <44B66F09.1050302@georgetown.wehave.net> Does anyone know if there is a way in Windows (XP) to see what processor features are enabled? In Linux I would just "grep flags /proc/cpuinfo" ... -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 16:46:28 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:46:28 -0400 Subject: Solved (I think); was: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B66EA3.7030708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44B678E4.3040009@alteeve.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > *sigh* > > I installed the latest version, ran that 'update-alternatives' command > (which reported there being no alternatives), re-aliened OpenOffice2.0.3 > and did a fresh install with the same frustrating results. Edit, save, > crash. > > This is causing me big problems! I can't work without a spreadsheet > program... :( > > Madison After I enabled the 'contrib' section of the 'debian-backports' repository I found a very-recently added copy of OO2.0.3 which, unlike the copy in testing, didn't require upgrading half the packages on my OS :p. So far, it looks like it's working. Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 16:47:51 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:47:51 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B66EA3.7030708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1152809271.44b6793766985@webmail.utoronto.ca> Quoting Madison Kelly : > I installed the latest version, ran that 'update-alternatives' > command (which reported there being no alternatives), re-aliened > OpenOffice2.0.3 and did a fresh install with the same frustrating > results. Edit, save, crash. > > This is causing me big problems! I can't work without a spreadsheet > program... :( > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I'm not sure why you're using rpm's to install OO when the Debian stable (if that's what you are now using) packages work. Have you tried them from your local debian mirror (or elswhereforthat matter)? http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/pool/main/o/openoffice.org/ Give apt-get or aptitude or dselect or whatever you use a shot :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 16:48:32 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:48:32 -0400 Subject: Solved (I think); was: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B678E4.3040009-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> <44B678E4.3040009@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1152809312.44b6796066960@webmail.utoronto.ca> Quoting Madison Kelly : > Madison Kelly wrote: > > *sigh* > > > > I installed the latest version, ran that 'update-alternatives' command > > (which reported there being no alternatives), re-aliened OpenOffice2.0.3 > > and did a fresh install with the same frustrating results. Edit, save, > > crash. > > > > This is causing me big problems! I can't work without a spreadsheet > > program... :( > > > > Madison > > After I enabled the 'contrib' section of the 'debian-backports' > repository I found a very-recently added copy of OO2.0.3 which, unlike > the copy in testing, didn't require upgrading half the packages on my OS > :p. > > So far, it looks like it's working. Thanks! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Heh, disregard my last message then! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:25:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:25:39 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060713172539.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 04:13:46PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > This puts me in mind of the Commodore 64 floppy disk drive. To save money, > Commodore had the same processor reading the drive mech as talking to the > IEEE bus. As someone said: > > 'Loads programs faster than you can type them in!!! (But only just..)' The 9600bps serial link to the floppy probably didn't help. I have seen custom 8bit parallel interfaces to the 1541, and the load time was amazing. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:28:55 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:28:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <1152736124.9424.59.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1152736124.9424.59.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060713172855.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 04:28:44PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > I actually had the disassembled and commented version of the firmware > for that drive. There were large areas of code that were commented as > unused. > > The book went on to say that the OS for the drive was a hack from > another dual-drive (iirc) system. > > In fact one could download different firmware to the drive to make it > run as fast as a PCs could back them. One program that did this was Fast > Hakem. Remember that? Didn't GEOS run partially on the 1541 to manage open files on the C64? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:31:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:31:20 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <20060712003953.00ec3b32.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20060713173120.GO13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 06:24:52PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > HD signals on cable is encrypted in a way that only > cable-company-supplied receivers can decode. Even if the original > signal was not encrypted. Walter's card cannot decrypt them. Another > example of a monopoly trying to extend itself. I really hate that. There are QAM compatible cards which can receive channels on rogers cable, but only the unencrypted ones, which isn't very many. It can even recognize where the encrypted ones are, but of course doesn't have the ability to decrypt them. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:35:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:35:20 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B662CE.30608-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B662CE.30608@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060713173520.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 11:12:14AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Oh, what about your java version? Try downloading the 1.5 java runtime > environment (jre) from: > http://java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp > > Install it as per their instructions, then run the following: > "update-alternatives --config java" and then choose the 3rd option which > should be your newly installed JRE. I've had lots of trouble with the > 1.4 that installd by default on Debian and Ubuntu. I think that this > should do the trick... Debian has native java packages now I believe, and if not make-jpkg is the right way to convert sun's .bin files to .deb files that install properly on the system. The update-alternatives is very useful for changing which java is in use though, and of course still applies. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:24:25 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:24:25 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060713172425.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:04:18PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/12/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 07:31:47AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Swap too. ;-) > > > >Right, store swap in ram. Is that the same as "buy more ram"? > > No, no, what you want to do is to define a ramdisk, and declare your > swap space to go in this area... There's a whole HOWTO on how to use > ramdisks... > http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/Ramdisk/ramdisk.html > > (Warning: Comments may be more sarcastic than they appear ;-). Back > in the day, it was entirely useful when I put 256K of memory on my > Atari 800XL, which allowed me to define a 192K ramdisk which was some > 70K larger than the size of a floppy disk...) Ramdisks are useful. Swap is not the same as a ramdisk, it is just about the complete opposit. ramdisks are for when you have extra ram to use for something useful, and swap is for when you have not enough ram. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:50:12 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:50:12 -0400 Subject: O.T. c64 slow drives. was In-Reply-To: <20060713172539.GM13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060713172539.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44B687D4.7030305@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 04:13:46PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >>This puts me in mind of the Commodore 64 floppy disk drive. To save money, >>Commodore had the same processor reading the drive mech as talking to the >>IEEE bus. As someone said: >> >>'Loads programs faster than you can type them in!!! (But only just..)' > The 'inside' story to this slowness is quite interesting. First, the 1541 started as a Vic 20 drive, and was acceptably fast. Apparently, a timing error in the 64 roms caused the reads to miss the next sector. This caused the system to have to wait for the sector to come around again. As this was slower than running the drives in 'slow' mode. They just shipped the 64 coloured drives with 'slow' mode set as default, rather than tossing the burnt roms and fixing. That and the 'bash the head against the stop' till you were sure it was homed, were 'Brilliant'... Most drives used a micro switch or other device to know when the head reached 'home' position. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 17:50:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:50:21 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B66777.6060600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66777.6060600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060713175021.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 11:32:07AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > When I posted that I had no java installed (same as before when it > worked). I followed the link and am installing the source package now. I > also re-downloaded and recreated the debs from alien under my new Debian > install, *just in case* and I'll report back once it's all done. bin -> deb with make-jpkg is much better than rpm -> deb with alien. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 18:01:34 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unix Unanimous In-Reply-To: <20060713145855.GA5928-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <44B575E1.4020203@rogers.com> <20060713143643.31392.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20060713145855.GA5928@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> Sort of, UU like AA is a self help group. UU unlike AA >> is for people who don't want to quit :-) . > > ... or even halt ... or sleep :-) But occassionally we do panic(). Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 20:26:19 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:26:19 -0500 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B66EA3.7030708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44B6AC6B.8020406@golden.net> Madison Kelly wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Oh, what about your java version? Try downloading the 1.5 java >> runtime environment (jre) from: >> http://java.com/en/download/linux_manual.jsp >> >> Install it as per their instructions, then run the following: >> "update-alternatives --config java" and then choose the 3rd option >> which should be your newly installed JRE. I've had lots of trouble >> with the 1.4 that installd by default on Debian and Ubuntu. I think >> that this should do the trick... >> >> Jamon (again) > > *sigh* > > I installed the latest version, ran that 'update-alternatives' > command (which reported there being no alternatives), re-aliened > OpenOffice2.0.3 and did a fresh install with the same frustrating > results. Edit, save, crash. > > This is causing me big problems! I can't work without a spreadsheet > program... :( > > Madison In a pinch why not use Gnumeric ? You may want to consider downloading from OO site. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 21:28:41 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:28:41 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B6AC6B.8020406-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> <44B6AC6B.8020406@golden.net> Message-ID: On 7/13/06, John Myshrall wrote: > In a pinch why not use Gnumeric ? Yes. Gnumeric is a perfectly good spreadsheet, just as AbiWord is a perfectly good word processor. I prefer AbiWord over OO as it starts much faster. There hasn't been much innovation in the word processing field recently, so in almost all cases, any word processor is fine. -- When you open Windows, bugs get in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 22:02:09 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:02:09 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1152828130.23776.5.camel@neo> I am extremely happy with Antec Sonata II case. They have a fan that pushes twice as much air but extremely quiet. If you want fanless, you can probably under clock stuff. But then any case will do, as long it has one of those smart cooling modes. hth, pavel ? ???, 11/07/2006 ? 21:23 -0400, Walter Dnes ?????: > > Any recommendations here for a computer? I'm looking for a complete > system. Advice on the pchdtv forum leans towards > - Nvidia FX 5200 video card (quiet and cheap) > - overkill power supply (quiet when a 450 watt supply is only > pushing > out 250 watts) > - Barracuda drives (quiet) > - A few extra slots would be nice -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 22:03:48 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:03:48 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B65C7B.5010104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> Hi Madison, I run unstable and lost X when the x.org release reached 6.9 because the ati mach64 drivers weren't recognizing my card any more. It took me the better part of a day but I carefully downgraded back to XFree86, using aptitude. I wouldn't expect anybody to follow this course of action. Are you sure you're not suffering from flakey hardware? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 22:07:15 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:07:15 -0400 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: <44B6C344.3090109-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44B6C413.3090707@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Hi Madison, > I run unstable and lost X when the x.org release reached 6.9 because > the ati mach64 drivers weren't recognizing my card any more. > > It took me the better part of a day but I carefully downgraded back to > XFree86, using aptitude. > > I wouldn't expect anybody to follow this course of action. > > Are you sure you're not suffering from flakey hardware? > > Ivan. Please disregard this message. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 20:20:32 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:20:32 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607121927.23908.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 13 July 2006 02:31, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 7/12/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Let me know please anyone had a similar problem, or, better, just the > > solution ;) That was mine idea: if anybody had a similar problem and was able to solve it - let them report. Googling shows that many indeed had a similar problem. I did not want to post all detailed technical information generated by various commands because.. problem is probably not in these programs or how I use them. Might be a hardware problem. How however could I learn that it is indeed a hardware problem? > Did you try using different software (e.g. cdrdao) or a different OS > (e.g. Windows or Ubuntu LiveCD)? Does CD burning work from there? As I wrote, except of cdrecord, I did try to use cdrskin on Linux. After your suggestion I was eager to try something else, cdrdao, which installed (from compilation) without problems. All these 3 programs behave in a similar way: they recognize the drive, its version, but complain that there is no CD inside. While a writable CD is obviously there (and I try two blank CD of two different companies, both types I was able to use in the past on different Linux machines). Yes, I did try right now on Windows XP as well, after installing a free CD burner, CDBurnerXPPro 3. It does recognize the CD drive properly (knows its version) but.. also complains that there is no CD inside ;( Hence, very likely a sort of hardware problem? But I do not need to add that reading CDs works fine? > Do you know by any chance: Does the drive work OK in other machines? Nowhere around to check that. Kind regards, zb. P.s.: To these who know me on this list and perhaps read this: I got a new job, a good one! In.. Pickring. I moved already there. Thats why I was able to spend 40 $ on a new CD burner ;))) The case itsels is interesting. I am doing moving from Windows servers to Linux(!) The company owner is a very bright person and uses (occasionally rather) Linux as well, and plans to move entire company operations to Linux. My work is a sort of programming of web site (HTML, JavaScript, a quite advanced one, rather) combined with Linux servers administration, with programming on the server side (PHP + JSP), and simply learning a lot of new things. In particular Postgres (my idea, though it would be easier to me to use MySQL) but also how the maps displayed on the web (Google Maps, for instance) are produced. The company deals with maps on the web and an expanding though far from saturation market related to the use of maps on the web. > Kind regards, > Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 13 23:21:44 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:21:44 +0000 Subject: Serious OO/Debian problem... In-Reply-To: References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B66EA3.7030708@alteeve.com> <44B6AC6B.8020406@golden.net> Message-ID: On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 7/13/06, John Myshrall wrote: > > In a pinch why not use Gnumeric ? > > Yes. Gnumeric is a perfectly good spreadsheet, just as AbiWord is a > perfectly good word processor. I prefer AbiWord over OO as it starts > much faster. I have found Gnumeric to be IMMENSELY preferable to the OO spreadsheet "module" because of its data importing capabilities. It has a very nice interactive interface for loading in data from (typically) semi-structured text files . > There hasn't been much innovation in the word processing field > recently, so in almost all cases, any word processor is fine. The same is true for most of these sorts of applications. The *real* innovations that *could* come in are the ones that they used to have back in the days when Amiga apps were programmable using AREXX. I had thought that GNOME and KDE were *supposed* to be about this; about giving you the capability to write scripts that would interface with and control the applications. I'm not sure the KDE folk ever quite had that in mind, and GNOME lost that when they ceased to conclude that they absolutely needed scripting at the root and that Guile wasn't paramount... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 01:05:45 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:05:45 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) Message-ID: On 7/13/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > > There hasn't been much innovation in the word processing field > > recently, so in almost all cases, any word processor is fine. > > The same is true for most of these sorts of applications. > > The *real* innovations that *could* come in are the ones that they > used to have back in the days when Amiga apps were programmable using > AREXX. I had thought that GNOME and KDE were *supposed* to be about > this; about giving you the capability to write scripts that would > interface with and control the applications. I'm not sure the KDE > folk ever quite had that in mind, and GNOME lost that when they ceased > to conclude that they absolutely needed scripting at the root and that > Guile wasn't paramount... I think a nice innovation would be including (Flash-based?) interactive tutorials with each app, just like modern 3-D games come with tutorials. But as for your idea... My brother wishes there was something like Apple Automator for Linux. (Automator is a scripting tool that now comes with Mac OS X which is extremely easy to learn. It is far easier to use than AppleScript because you just chain together a series of pre-made "actions" and set a few parameters for each action, often using drop-down lists. Look up Automator on Wikipedia for more information.) We looked DCOP on Freshmeat but all we found was kdcop, which is not quite a drag-and-drop scripting tool. :-) OTOH, is OpenOffice's support for Visual Basic for Applications not a start at scriptability? Jason -- When you open Windows, bugs get in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 01:13:44 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:13:44 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <200607131620.33136.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607121927.23908.softquake@gmail.com> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/13/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Thursday 13 July 2006 02:31, Jason Spiro wrote: > > On 7/12/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > Let me know please anyone had a similar problem, or, better, just the > > > solution ;) > > That was mine idea: if anybody had a similar problem and was able to solve it > - let them report. Hmm. I wonder if it would be practical to start up an Error Message Wiki where people could post error messages they have encountered and the steps they took to solve the error message... ... > > Did you try using different software (e.g. cdrdao) or a different OS > > (e.g. Windows or Ubuntu LiveCD)? Does CD burning work from there? > > As I wrote, except of cdrecord, I did try to use cdrskin on Linux. After your > suggestion I was eager to try something else, cdrdao, which installed (from > compilation) without problems. All these 3 programs behave in a similar way: > they recognize the drive, its version, but complain that there is no CD > inside. While a writable CD is obviously there (and I try two blank CD of two > different companies, both types I was able to use in the past on different > Linux machines). > > Yes, I did try right now on Windows XP as well, after installing a free CD > burner, CDBurnerXPPro 3. It does recognize the CD drive properly (knows its > version) but.. also complains that there is no CD inside ;( > > Hence, very likely a sort of hardware problem? But I do not need to add that > reading CDs works fine? > You may have to try calling the store where you bought the burner or the manufacturer's technical support line and telling them there's a problem with burning CDs in WinXP. Of course, they probably will exchange the drive if it's defective. > P.s.: To these who know me on this list and perhaps read this: I got a new > job, a good one! In.. Pickring. I moved already there. Thats why I was able > to spend 40 $ on a new CD burner ;))) You could always look for a different burner from the freecycle toronto mailing list... :) Email freecycleto-subscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org to join, or search the list archives online at groups.yahoo.com/group/freecycleto if I recall correctly. > The case itsels is interesting. I am > doing moving from Windows servers to Linux(!) The company owner is a very > bright person and uses (occasionally rather) Linux as well, and plans to move > entire company operations to Linux. My work is a sort of programming of web > site (HTML, JavaScript, a quite advanced one, rather) combined with Linux > servers administration, with programming on the server side (PHP + JSP), and > simply learning a lot of new things. In particular Postgres (my idea, though > it would be easier to me to use MySQL) but also how the maps displayed on the > web (Google Maps, for instance) are produced. The company deals with maps on > the web and an expanding though far from saturation market related to the use > of maps on the web. Sounds fun. Too bad you have to work with JSP though. :) -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 02:12:43 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why aren't hardware and OSes more standardized? (Was: C64 drive) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jason Spiro wrote: > Why, after all this time, can't one buy one of ten types of Standard > PC, with your choice of one of 10 Standard OSes, and since the I for one hopes such a thing never comes to pass. People have different needs. If we only have 10 types of PCs, what happens if you need something different? I guess you just miss out. With open standards we can have better working systems without having to sacrifice choice. > Also, why can't one buy a computer, plug it into the, um, Internet > jack in the wall, and click the Email button and your email will work > right away? With just a fingerprint, and no username or password, if The main limitation preventing such a setup is security. - ISPs need to make sure only their paying customers are using their services. - It used to be possible to relay email via any main transport agent in the world. There was a gentleman's agreement that you would not use someone elses MTA without permission except in a genuine emergency. All that changed when spammers arrived on the scene. Both of these situations come down to the need to restrict access to those with permission to use a particular service. So blame those who cannot manage to play by generally accepted rules. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 03:01:49 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why aren't hardware and OSes more standardized? (Was: C64 drive) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Robert Brockway wrote: > - It used to be possible to relay email via any main transport agent in the I meant "mail transport agent" (aka MTA). Silly typos :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 09:26:28 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:26:28 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <200607132236.03433.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <200607132236.03433.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am taking the liberty of replying to list because I think others, too, will find that what you wrote was valuable. :-) On 7/13/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Thursday 13 July 2006 21:13, you wrote: > > > > Hmm. I wonder if it would be practical to start up an Error Message > > Wiki where people could post error messages they have encountered and > > the steps they took to solve the error message... > > The web sites is a something I do for about 10 years. More or less ugly. > > There is a sense to make a new web site if you are ready to put a lot of > effort into that work. To make the web site usable and visible. Note that can > not be done easy. I do not question the idea itself, just try to explain that > it is very difficult to emerge, become at the top. When I have any technical > problem I just go to google. With a properly formulated question one gets > tons of pages there in response, usually with usefull response. Well, wikibooks.org and wikicities.com make it a bit easier to make new web sites, and they can be edited by all.., but then again, IMO nobody usually helps out with a wiki page that's not on wikipedia unless you have something really good already. :-) > > You may have to try calling the store where you bought the burner or > > the manufacturer's technical support line and telling them there's a > > problem with burning CDs in WinXP. Of course, they probably will > > exchange the drive if it's defective. > > :) Good idea. That it does now work with Windows ;) > I don't understand. -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 10:13:16 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:13:16 -0400 Subject: Why does make echo every command it runs to the screen? Message-ID: Why does make, by default, echo every command it runs to the screen? Wouldn't it be better if it did not, and instead gcc echoed the full pathname of all files that caused errors or warnings while compiling? Sounds to me such a way would be more in tune with the old Unix philosophy of commands not displaying any output to the screen unless there's a problem. Please CC me, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 11:40:15 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:40:15 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Why does make echo every command it runs to the screen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Jason Spiro wrote: > Why does make, by default, echo every command it runs to the screen? > > Wouldn't it be better if it did not, and instead gcc echoed the full > pathname of all files that caused errors or warnings while compiling? > > Sounds to me such a way would be more in tune with the old Unix > philosophy of commands not displaying any output to the screen unless > there's a problem. > > Please CC me, something: @echo "I am so quiet" Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 12:14:36 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:14:36 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 7/13/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > > > There hasn't been much innovation in the word processing field > > > recently, so in almost all cases, any word processor is fine. > > > > The same is true for most of these sorts of applications. > > > > The *real* innovations that *could* come in are the ones that they > > used to have back in the days when Amiga apps were programmable using > > AREXX. I had thought that GNOME and KDE were *supposed* to be about > > this; about giving you the capability to write scripts that would > > interface with and control the applications. I'm not sure the KDE > > folk ever quite had that in mind, and GNOME lost that when they ceased > > to conclude that they absolutely needed scripting at the root and that > > Guile wasn't paramount... > > I think a nice innovation would be including (Flash-based?) > interactive tutorials with each app, just like modern 3-D games come > with tutorials. Any time someone suggests Flash, I wonder what the problem was that they could possibly have picked that as a solution... But that seems an aside... > But as for your idea... > > My brother wishes there was something like Apple Automator for Linux. > (Automator is a scripting tool that now comes with Mac OS X which is > extremely easy to learn. It is far easier to use than AppleScript > because you just chain together a series of pre-made "actions" and set > a few parameters for each action, often using drop-down lists. Look up > Automator on Wikipedia for more information.) Yup, that definitely is an instance of a technology conforming to what I was suggesting. AppleScript was a "system-controlling script" system going back to the days when MacOS was rather more primitive than it is today... > We looked DCOP on Freshmeat but all we found was kdcop, which is not > quite a drag-and-drop scripting tool. :-) That is indeed the new direction for scripting of KDE; that it is still primitive is not a problem, as long as it doesn't die on the vine. A primitive interface that can be made better is a good thing... > OTOH, is OpenOffice's support for Visual Basic for Applications not a > start at scriptability? It is, but I'd argue it is of the wrong sort, as it represents scripting that only works *inside* OO. The sort of thing you can do with Automator is to tell it to look up in your Address Book for people with birthdays, and submit "Happy Birthday" messages to them. That isn't a function internal to any particular application; that involves "hooking into" several applications. This is, in effect, a "Unix way"; in Gancarz's terms, this is all about fixing up principle 8, "Avoid captive user interfaces." The typical word processor, or web browser, or spreadsheet, or address book, or whatever graphical application, once made "user friendly," suffers from the problem that it is a honking big "captive user interface." Having "hooks" from the outside that allow getting in to get at useful stuff gets us out of that captivity. When OO implements an internal scripting system, that merely means that you have a bigger exercise room when you get the daily prison "exercise break." You're still captive inside OO, even if you have some hooks that allow you to call/write people that are outside the jail... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 12:54:43 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:54:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Madison Where Did You Get Your Laptop Batteries? Message-ID: <44B79413.9090207@utoronto.ca> Madison, a while back you had to get some laptop batteries. I forgot to archive the message where it was stated where you decided to get them. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 13:39:32 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:39:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Madison Where Did You Get Your Laptop Batteries? In-Reply-To: <44B79413.9090207-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B79413.9090207@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44B79E94.6000007@telly.org> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > a while back you had to get some laptop batteries. I forgot to > archive the message where it was stated where you decided to get them. Since that message originally went out I'd received mail from GrandTech (http://www.grandtech.ca/) about batteries. Never dealt with them but they seem to have a good selection. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 16:02:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:02:20 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <200607131620.33136.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607121927.23908.softquake@gmail.com> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 04:20:32PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > As I wrote, except of cdrecord, I did try to use cdrskin on Linux. After your > suggestion I was eager to try something else, cdrdao, which installed (from > compilation) without problems. All these 3 programs behave in a similar way: > they recognize the drive, its version, but complain that there is no CD > inside. While a writable CD is obviously there (and I try two blank CD of two > different companies, both types I was able to use in the past on different > Linux machines). > > Yes, I did try right now on Windows XP as well, after installing a free CD > burner, CDBurnerXPPro 3. It does recognize the CD drive properly (knows its > version) but.. also complains that there is no CD inside ;( > > Hence, very likely a sort of hardware problem? But I do not need to add that > reading CDs works fine? Has this brand/model of media ever worked on this particular drive? Some media simply doesn't work with some drives. Often a firmware update can fix that, but not always. I have had some 8x media that I simply can't get the drive to accept as more than 4x media (dvd-r media that is). I have had cases where updating the firmware made the drive suddenly like some media it didn't like before. Also remember that CD-RW comes in 3 types, and some drives can't do some types. There is CD-RW (1x to 4x), CD-RW high speed (4x to 10x) and CD-RW ultra (10x and up). CD-R should just work, unless the firmware really doesn't like a certain type of CD-R dye. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 16:05:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:05:02 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060714160502.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 08:14:36AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Any time someone suggests Flash, I wonder what the problem was that > they could possibly have picked that as a solution... But that seems > an aside... Certainly not a particularly good way to script applications. > Yup, that definitely is an instance of a technology conforming to what > I was suggesting. AppleScript was a "system-controlling script" > system going back to the days when MacOS was rather more primitive > than it is today... What we really need is AREXX. Or something like it with a similarly almost universal application support for it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 16:07:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:29 -0400 Subject: Why does make echo every command it runs to the screen? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060714160729.GT13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 06:13:16AM -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > Why does make, by default, echo every command it runs to the screen? > > Wouldn't it be better if it did not, and instead gcc echoed the full > pathname of all files that caused errors or warnings while compiling? > > Sounds to me such a way would be more in tune with the old Unix > philosophy of commands not displaying any output to the screen unless > there's a problem. It is easier to debug the Makefile when it by default sows what it is doing. You can ask it to not do so in your Makefile, and the linux 2.6 kernels do that for example. By default they print out CC... and LD... and other such status but not the actual command. Adding V=1 to the maek command line enables printing the actual commands again. It's just a default, feel free to override it in your makefiles. I have found many makefiles that do this to be very very badly written, so I think most people that want to hide the output are simply trying to hide their crappy makefiles. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 16:34:44 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:34:44 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0607140934u7a151467t8ab1f6614ed13619@mail.gmail.com> On 7/14/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > ... > > OTOH, is OpenOffice's support for Visual Basic for Applications not a > > start at scriptability? > > It is, but I'd argue it is of the wrong sort, as it represents > scripting that only works *inside* OO. > > The sort of thing you can do with Automator is to tell it to look up > in your Address Book for people with birthdays, and submit "Happy > Birthday" messages to them. > > That isn't a function internal to any particular application; that > involves "hooking into" several applications. > > This is, in effect, a "Unix way"; in Gancarz's terms, this is all > about fixing up principle 8, "Avoid captive user interfaces." ... This reminds me terribly of Windows Scripting Host, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSH OO seems to support it in Windows: http://udk.openoffice.org/common/man/tutorial/office_automation.html I've never worked with it, but I have to wonder how a common set of application controls can be created on the Linux desktop... I mean, even if KDE has a scripting tool, can it interact with OO? Could it ever? I'm just saying that it's not an OO limitation, but a feature which I'm not sure was carried through to the Linux version, and if it was, I'm not sure how it could be used. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 18:07:20 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:07:20 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0607140934u7a151467t8ab1f6614ed13619-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0607140934u7a151467t8ab1f6614ed13619@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/14/06, Mike Kallies wrote: ... > I've never worked with it, but I have to wonder how a common set of > application controls can be created on the Linux desktop... I mean, > even if KDE has a scripting tool, can it interact with OO? Could it > ever? ... Well, I assume DCOP is for KDE apps, not for other apps. It's a sad side effect of having both KDE and Gnome around: presumably if you want DCOP scriptability between, say, a web browser and a spreadsheet, you must download both a KDE web browser and a KDE spreadsheet. Why can't Unix pipes (or temp files) and standard formats like CSV and MPEG2 somehow be used for this sort of data interchange between two apps, instead of requiring DCOP, AppleScript, and/or Windows clipboard-like data interchange systems? -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:03:14 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:03:14 +0000 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: References: <92ee967a0607140934u7a151467t8ab1f6614ed13619@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/14/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 7/14/06, Mike Kallies wrote: > ... > > I've never worked with it, but I have to wonder how a common set of > > application controls can be created on the Linux desktop... I mean, > > even if KDE has a scripting tool, can it interact with OO? Could it > > ever? > ... > > Well, I assume DCOP is for KDE apps, not for other apps. It's a sad > side effect of having both KDE and Gnome around: presumably if you > want DCOP scriptability between, say, a web browser and a spreadsheet, > you must download both a KDE web browser and a KDE spreadsheet. That's why DCOP will be replaced by D-BUS in KDE 4... http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus > Why can't Unix pipes (or temp files) and standard formats like CSV and > MPEG2 somehow be used for this sort of data interchange between two > apps, instead of requiring DCOP, AppleScript, and/or Windows > clipboard-like data interchange systems? If you imagine CSV to be a "standard format" in any sense of the term "standard," you obviously have never tried to build a parser for it... - Pipes *aren't* enough, because they provide no type information. - Originally, CORBA was supposed to be the way that apps would interact. There are still vestiges of this; search /usr/share for .idl files, and you'll find the interfaces people were defining for Bonobo... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:16:00 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:16:00 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? Message-ID: Hi All: I am confused by what may be a fairly basic networking question: I have two linux computers attached to a Linksys router, one of which I would like to be able to log into from both the other computer and from my office. If I use the address that I get from /sbin/ifconfig I am able to login from the other computer linked to the same router, but not from outside. Also the address I get from /sbin/ifconfig is entirely different from the one I see if I go to http://ww2.economics.utoronto.ca/whoami.php, which reads off IP addresses and the IP address that I read off from that page is the same for both computers hooked up to the router. So I am guessing that this is the router address and that the outside world is only seeing as far as the router and can't get past this? Does that sound right? If so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in from outside? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:31:09 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All: > > I am confused by what may be a fairly basic networking question: > > I have two linux computers attached to a Linksys router, one of which > I would like to be able to log into from both the other computer and from > my office. > > If I use the address that I get from /sbin/ifconfig I am able to login > from the other computer linked to the same router, but not from outside. > > Also the address I get from /sbin/ifconfig is entirely different from the > one I see if I go to http://ww2.economics.utoronto.ca/whoami.php, which > reads off IP addresses and the IP address that I read off from that page > is the same for both computers hooked up to the router. So I am guessing > that this is the router address and that the outside world is only seeing > as far as the router and can't get past this? Does that sound right? If > so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in > from outside? Tell your router to forward port 22 to your local address. Then you can ssh to the 'net address and it will go to the machine you want. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:31:13 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:31:13 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Alex, On 7/14/06, Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi All: > so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in > from outside? The solution I used is to log in to your router with a browser and set up port forwarding to the computer you want to log in to. If you're using ssh, port forward 22. You might even set sshd to listen to another port and forward that one as well. Then you'll have direct access to both from the outside. There might be other solutions I am not aware of but this works for me. Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:37:11 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:37:11 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And for improved security, I highly recommend you disable root logins via ssh. On 7/14/06, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > Hi All: > > I am confused by what may be a fairly basic networking question: > > I have two linux computers attached to a Linksys router, one of which > I would like to be able to log into from both the other computer and from > my office. > > If I use the address that I get from /sbin/ifconfig I am able to login > from the other computer linked to the same router, but not from outside. > > Also the address I get from /sbin/ifconfig is entirely different from the > one I see if I go to http://ww2.economics.utoronto.ca/whoami.php, which > reads off IP addresses and the IP address that I read off from that page > is the same for both computers hooked up to the router. So I am guessing > that this is the router address and that the outside world is only seeing > as far as the router and can't get past this? Does that sound right? If > so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in > from outside? > > Alex > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 19:42:55 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:42:55 -0400 Subject: Why is there no OS X Automator clone for Linux? (was: Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: References: <92ee967a0607140934u7a151467t8ab1f6614ed13619@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/14/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/14/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > > Well, I assume DCOP is for KDE apps, not for other apps. ... > DCOP will be replaced by D-BUS in KDE 4... > > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus Cool. I look forward to that. ... > If you imagine CSV to be a "standard format" in any sense of the term > "standard," you obviously have never tried to build a parser for it... What else is there? HTML tables? Lotus 1-2-3 .wk1 format? :-) > - Pipes *aren't* enough, because they provide no type information. Would it work to send MIME-encapsulated data over a Unix pipe? Jason -- "The Microsoft _Get the Facts CD_ does not work on Linux." --orospakr -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 20:43:55 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:43:55 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B8020B.5040102@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi All: > > I am confused by what may be a fairly basic networking question: > > I have two linux computers attached to a Linksys router, one of which > I would like to be able to log into from both the other computer and from > my office. > > If I use the address that I get from /sbin/ifconfig I am able to login > from the other computer linked to the same router, but not from outside. > > Also the address I get from /sbin/ifconfig is entirely different from the > one I see if I go to http://ww2.economics.utoronto.ca/whoami.php, which > reads off IP addresses and the IP address that I read off from that page > is the same for both computers hooked up to the router. So I am guessing > that this is the router address and that the outside world is only seeing > as far as the router and can't get past this? Does that sound right? If > so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in > from outside? You're likely using a router with Network Address Translation, which means that the address you have on that computer is not accessable from outside your local network. You'll need a VPN, to connect to it or use port forwarding. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 21:23:54 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:23:54 -0500 Subject: O.T. c64 slow drives. was In-Reply-To: <44B687D4.7030305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B4DDA3.9090806@rogers.com> <20060712160923.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50731.207.188.64.26.1152735226.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060713172539.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44B687D4.7030305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607141423q2ccc77bbo128c5e5a36832c9d@mail.gmail.com> On 7/13/06, Lance F. Squire wrote: > The 'inside' story to this slowness is quite interesting. > > First, the 1541 started as a Vic 20 drive, and was acceptably fast. > > Apparently, a timing error in the 64 roms caused the reads to miss the > next sector. This caused the system to have to wait for the sector to > come around again. > > As this was slower than running the drives in 'slow' mode. They just > shipped the 64 coloured drives with 'slow' mode set as default, rather > than tossing the burnt roms and fixing. This explains why the replacement ROMs were so spectacular. Replace the chip in the drive and use an equivalent in the system. I can't remember the name of the chip though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 21:57:04 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:57:04 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <20060712012324.GA8134-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <44B81330.5020704@rogers.com> > The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET* Sorry to be late to the game here... I got sick of noise at my desk at home and wanted to free up some more desk space too... I wound up picking up a Shuttle SN25P system and I've been thrilled with it... it's quite quiet (except during boot up) and scores well on both counts, IMO. I'm not a huge fan of Dell, but we have a ton of them at work, and they are by far the quietest big-vendor boxes I've ever come across. It's like they're not even there. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 22:07:31 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:07:31 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > > > Hi All: > > > > I am confused by what may be a fairly basic networking question: > > > > I have two linux computers attached to a Linksys router, one of which > > I would like to be able to log into from both the other computer and from > > my office. > > > > If I use the address that I get from /sbin/ifconfig I am able to login > > from the other computer linked to the same router, but not from outside. > > > > Also the address I get from /sbin/ifconfig is entirely different from the > > one I see if I go to http://ww2.economics.utoronto.ca/whoami.php, which > > reads off IP addresses and the IP address that I read off from that page > > is the same for both computers hooked up to the router. So I am guessing > > that this is the router address and that the outside world is only seeing > > as far as the router and can't get past this? Does that sound right? If > > so, does anyone know of a simple way to change this so that I can log in > > from outside? > > Tell your router to forward port 22 to your local address. Then you > can ssh to the 'net address and it will go to the machine you want. > Thanks very much to several of you who suggested forwarding port 22. I've done this and can now get to my computer's logon/passord from outside, but strangely it rejects my logon attempts. I use the "AllowUsers" in sshd_config to restrict outside access. In the past when I had trouble logging in from outside computers it was because the IP/DNS was not listed under AllowUsers. But this outside computer is a reliable server who's DNS has been on my AllowUsers list for a long time and never caused a problem before. This has me a bit confused. Could it be that the DNS/IP of the computer of origin is somehow getting losted or changed as it passes through my router? Thanks again! Alex > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson > =================================================================== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 22:10:04 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:10:04 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <44B81330.5020704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B81330.5020704@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/14/06, Byron Sonne wrote: > > The computer I'm looking for will have to be *QUIET* > > Sorry to be late to the game here... > > I got sick of noise at my desk at home and wanted to free up some more > desk space too... I wound up picking up a Shuttle SN25P system and I've > been thrilled with it... it's quite quiet (except during boot up) and > scores well on both counts, IMO. > > I'm not a huge fan of Dell, but we have a ton of them at work, and they > are by far the quietest big-vendor boxes I've ever come across. It's > like they're not even there. You've obviously never had a PowerEdge 6650 under your desk... Between the 12 fans and 18 disk drives, when I had Hathi under my desk, this irritated anyone within 30 feet :-). Of course, that was nothing compared to the "jet engine sound" of the first generation Celestica quad-Opteron boxes... ;-) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 22:28:45 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:28:45 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <20060714160220.GR13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> On Friday 14 July 2006 12:02, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 04:20:32PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Has this brand/model of media ever worked on this particular drive? I dont know. Rather not. The computer I use is assambled from parts I got from nice people on this list, before last Christmas. > Some media simply doesn't work with some drives. Often a firmware > update can fix that, but not always. I never thought there is such a thing as firmware update for CD drive ;) OK, I did the homework. There is just one, it seems, firmware update available for this particular drive but it is related to its reading capabilities of DVD. > I have had some 8x media that I > simply can't get the drive to accept as more than 4x media (dvd-r media > that is). I have had cases where updating the firmware made the drive > suddenly like some media it didn't like before. > Also remember that CD-RW comes in 3 types, and some drives can't do some > types. There is CD-RW (1x to 4x), CD-RW high speed (4x to 10x) and > CD-RW ultra (10x and up). CD-R should just work, unless the firmware > really doesn't like a certain type of CD-R dye. Thats an educative information in my case. But I did try several CDs, from various manufactures, and got also a pair of two for free from the store I bought the drive. I guess I will end up buying another CD recorder ;) What is the role of DMA during the recording? One of tools I used on Linux throws out a message that there is no DMA at all. Is that important? That particular CD drive works as a secondary master. zb. > > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 14 22:39:19 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:39:19 -0400 Subject: Atomic OS, Multics, and Biometric Internet Access (Was: Why aren't hardware and OSes more standardized?) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607141539o3ac5e009qbde6769fba0326c@mail.gmail.com> On 7/13/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > Also, why can't one buy a computer, plug it into the, um, Internet > jack in the wall, and click the Email button and your email will work > right away? With just a fingerprint, and no username or password, if > you so choose when you call Bell or Rogers to order Internet service. Multics was a great idea, but the concept of using biometrics for internet access makes my skin crawl. Probably get some decent Customer Services horror stories out of that idea though. ;-) Speaking of Multics[1], the WAJAX Prototype I've been working on is going through a complete rewrite. As of this week, the source code and (simple) build system are available from SourceForge under the name "Atomic OS" It doesn't have many of the "features" I tried playing with in WAJAX yet (eg. GUI, Database Access, CSV parser) but the development is no longer done on a single monolithic file. There are now about 30 source files, which are processed by the build system to create the monolithic file. Source files and the build system for AtomicOS are available now from CVS and as a tarball. (No set release schedule for the time being.) http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ [1] Atomic OS always reminds me of Multics, though I've never been able to figure out just why. I haven't been able to pin down just what Atomic OS is. The closest I can get is maybe a web-based OS abstraction? (This might be a good place to introduce the projects discuss list. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 01:37:07 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:37:07 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <200607141828.45728.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 06:28:45PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I never thought there is such a thing as firmware update for CD drive ;) OK, > I did the homework. There is just one, it seems, firmware update available > for this particular drive but it is related to its reading capabilities of > DVD. For DVD writers firmware updates are a big deal to support new media as it comes out. That is why I tend to buy plextor drives (well that and they are just great drives if you buy their high end models), since you can flash the firmware from linux on a plextor. > Thats an educative information in my case. But I did try several CDs, from > various manufactures, and got also a pair of two for free from the store I > bought the drive. > > I guess I will end up buying another CD recorder ;) Well you can pick up a pioneer or LG dvd burner for about $40. A plextor will be closer to $125. > What is the role of DMA during the recording? One of tools I used on Linux > throws out a message that there is no DMA at all. Is that important? That > particular CD drive works as a secondary master. The author of cdrecord to put it mildly is a bit nuts. He hates how the linux kernel developers have decided to handle atapi and prints out lots of warningsa (which only apply to a few specific kernel releases) on just about every kernel version. DMA is important for decent recording speed (I wondered why a DVD was taking 2 hours to burn on my machine, when something accidentally disabled DMA. With DMA enabled it took 15 minutes instead.) Without DMA the cpu has to copy every byte to the device, while with DMA the cpu just places the data in ram, and tells the device the address in ram to go get the data, and the device/controller takes care of getting the data there while the cpu goes and does something useful instead. This is much faster and much more efficient. To check if DMA is enabled do: cat /proc/ide/hdc/settings|grep dma (where hdc is your writer). If you see using_dma 1 0 1, then it is enabled, while 0 0 1 means disabled. You can enable it with 'hdparm -d 1 /dev/hdc' assuming you are running a native driver for your ide controller, and not ide-generic. Some kernels enable DMA all the time, some only do it for harddisks, and some don't do it at all. You can make it run the hdparm command at boot from one of the startup scripts. Without DMA burns are much more likely to fail if you don't have buffer underrun protection enabled (cdrecord disables it by default, while cdrdao, and growisofs and most other things enable it by default). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 04:15:59 2006 From: michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Newman) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:15:59 -0400 Subject: Supermarket repackaging trick again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B86BFF.7060401@gmail.com> Jason Spiro wrote: > But MS has a lot of $ and resources, and Live will get better in the > future. > > Hopefully they'll start respecting web standards better by then... Speaking of respecting web standards, compare: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.msn.com to http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com Yahoo/Alltheweb fail to validate as well. Granted, live.com blows up even worse than Google. I just think it's interesting that they should go to the effort of doing MSN Search the correct way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 12:13:03 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:13:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/14/microsoft_search_google/ Now, if Larry Ellison would have said that, I would have paid attention. But m$ ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 13:20:42 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:20:42 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B8EBAA.8070703@execulink.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > > > Thanks very much to several of you who suggested forwarding port 22. > I've done this and can now get to my computer's logon/passord from > outside, but strangely it rejects my logon attempts. > > I use the "AllowUsers" in sshd_config to restrict outside access. > In the past when I had trouble logging in from outside computers it was > because the IP/DNS was not listed under AllowUsers. But this > outside computer is a reliable server who's DNS has been on my AllowUsers > list for a long time and never caused a problem before. This has me a > bit confused. Could it be that the DNS/IP of the computer of origin is > somehow getting losted or changed as it passes through my router? > If you're getting a login prompt at a remote location, then it is most likely NOT a networking issue. You're being rejected for some other reason by the application itself. What about the users .ssh/known_hosts file? Does it already have a key for the remote host? Has it changed? Try providing some more info. Check the logs and root's mail for any errors and if possible tcpdump -npvvvxX both sides of the session. See if the key exchange was successful and that the versions aren't too far out of whack. greg > Thanks again! > > Alex > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 13:45:09 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:45:09 -0400 Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> Peter wrote: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/14/microsoft_search_google/ > > Now, if Larry Ellison would have said that, I would have paid attention. > But m$ ? > > Peter > -- I think it matters NOT who says what, the proof is in the pudding. What are your personal observations of these engines and their behavior with respect to your managed servers? Which obey the Robots Exclusion Standard to the letter and which serve clients from cache by default? Forget MSN Virtual Earth - Yahoo "Ask the Planet!" greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 15:56:26 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 08:56:26 -0700 Subject: Latest AdSense Scam Message-ID: I see that someone has come up with another idea as to how to destroy the Internet... http://www.adsensepages.com/index-order.html The notion is: "Here are 300 web sites with >100 pages apiece; you can host them on your web hosting provider, fill in your AdSense code, point search engines at them, and start collecting money." Unlike the worthless "link farms", these may actually have some informational content. Unfortunately, it amounts to duplicating whatever it was they sold you. There's bad news to it, in that if people link to such sites, it'll push them up in ranking on Google and the like, and distract people from *real* sources of information that get updated... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 16:00:43 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:00:43 -0400 Subject: Logging into a computer behind a router? In-Reply-To: <44B8EBAA.8070703-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8EBAA.8070703@execulink.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Gregory D Hough wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: > > > > > > Thanks very much to several of you who suggested forwarding port 22. > > I've done this and can now get to my computer's logon/passord from > > outside, but strangely it rejects my logon attempts. > > > > This has me a bit confused. Could it be that the DNS/IP of the >> computer of origin is somehow getting losted or changed as it passes >> through my router? > > > If you're getting a login prompt at a remote location, then it is most > likely NOT a networking issue. You're being rejected for some other > reason by the application itself. What about the users .ssh/known_hosts > file? Does it already have a key for the remote host? Has it changed? > > Try providing some more info. Check the logs and root's mail for any > errors and if possible tcpdump -npvvvxX both sides of the session. See > if the key exchange was successful and that the versions aren't too far > out of whack. Thank you! You're right. It turned out the problem was in my sshd_config file. After fixing that everything worked. Alex > > greg > > Thanks again! > > > > Alex > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 16:05:27 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:05:27 -0400 Subject: Latest AdSense Scam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607151205.27476.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 15 July 2006 11:56, Christopher Browne wrote: > I see that someone has come up with another idea as to how to destroy > the Internet... > http://www.adsensepages.com/index-order.html > I would not be so pessimistic. Google is smart. And the people there who write searching algorithms too. Another trick some do is buying a domain name and putting just a collection of links on the web site, with Google ads as well. These sites are mostly useless. They are shown in google search results. But I do not think they are ranked high and I guess they ranking will get lower in the future. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 16:07:15 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:07:15 -0400 Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <44B8F165.709-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> Message-ID: I think that this is the choice quote: "Enterprise search is our business, it's our house and Google is not going to take that business," Turner told 7,000 delegates attending Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference. "Those people are not going to be allowed to take food off our plate, because that is what they are intending to do." Is it any wonder that you get anti-competitive statements coming out of the guy they got from Walmart? It's like he's inviting another anti-trust trial, "We won't allow anyone to challenge us. We are the only ones allowed to have enterprise search." I think he also wins the drama queen award for the "take food off our plate" analogy. It's not like Microsoft will die on the vine if they lose enterprise search, or (god forbid) have to *share* the space with another competitor or two. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 16:10:24 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:10:24 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <20060715013707.GU13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607151210.24945.softquake@gmail.com> Lenard, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. Thanks to others, too. On Friday 14 July 2006 21:37, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > What is the role of DMA during the recording? One of tools I used on > > Linux throws out a message that there is no DMA at all. Is that > > important? That particular CD drive works as a secondary master. > > The author of cdrecord to put it mildly is a bit nuts. He hates how the > linux kernel developers have decided to handle atapi and prints out lots > of warningsa (which only apply to a few specific kernel releases) on just > about every kernel version. DMA is important for decent recording speed > (I wondered why a DVD was taking 2 hours to burn on my machine, when > something accidentally disabled DMA. With DMA enabled it took 15 > minutes instead.) Without DMA the cpu has to copy every byte to the > device, while with DMA the cpu just places the data in ram, and tells > the device the address in ram to go get the data, and the > device/controller takes care of getting the data there while the cpu > goes and does something useful instead. This is much faster and much > more efficient. > > To check if DMA is enabled do: > cat /proc/ide/hdc/settings|grep dma (where hdc is your writer). DMA is enabled. Strange that one of the programs complained. I do not bother to check again which one. To conclude the story: I bought another CD burner, an LG one. It worked wonderfully right away! zb. > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 17:05:53 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:05:53 -0400 Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> Message-ID: <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > Is it any wonder that you get anti-competitive statements coming out > of the guy they got from Walmart? It's like he's inviting another > anti-trust trial, "We won't allow anyone to challenge us. We are the > only ones allowed to have enterprise search." I think he also wins > the drama queen award for the "take food off our plate" analogy. > It's not like Microsoft will die on the vine if they lose enterprise > search, or (god forbid) have to *share* the space with another > competitor or two. It's interesting to see MS switch their "mortal enemy" focus from Linux to Google. Does this mean that they believe their battles with open source to be: 1) Won (so let's move on to the next victim) 2) Unwinable (so the shift to Google is a diversion and/or softer target) 3) A long term battle of attrition (so a new rallying point is needed for partners and shareholders with ADD) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 17:07:33 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:07:33 -0400 Subject: OT: Madison Where Did You Get Your Laptop Batteries? In-Reply-To: <44B79413.9090207-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B79413.9090207@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44B920D5.8040407@alteeve.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Madison, > a while back you had to get some laptop batteries. I forgot to > archive the message where it was stated where you decided to get them. > > Ivan. I ended up going to "RouterSale" (http://store.247computersale.com/), a small company on O'Conner where the owner was pretty nice. :) Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 18:21:32 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <44B92071.2050309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> Message-ID: <50435.207.188.67.241.1152987692.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > It's interesting to see MS switch their "mortal enemy" focus from Linux > to Google. Does this mean that they believe their battles with open > source to be: > 1) Won (so let's move on to the next victim) > 2) Unwinable (so the shift to Google is a diversion and/or softer target) > 3) A long term battle of attrition (so a new rallying point is needed > for partners and shareholders with ADD) (At the risk of premature invocation of Godwin's Law) Reminds me of the second world war, when Germany opened up a second front against the Soviet Union -- and that took some pressure off the western Allies. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 21:13:40 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:13:40 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <44B92071.2050309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > >> Is it any wonder that you get anti-competitive statements coming out of >> the guy they got from Walmart? It's like he's inviting another anti-trust >> trial, "We won't allow anyone to challenge us. We are the only ones >> allowed to have enterprise search." I think he also wins the drama queen >> award for the "take food off our plate" analogy. It's not like Microsoft >> will die on the vine if they lose enterprise search, or (god forbid) have >> to *share* the space with another competitor or two. > > It's interesting to see MS switch their "mortal enemy" focus from Linux to > Google. Does this mean that they believe their battles with open source to > be: > 1) Won (so let's move on to the next victim) > 2) Unwinable (so the shift to Google is a diversion and/or softer target) > 3) A long term battle of attrition (so a new rallying point is needed for > partners and shareholders with ADD) It's much simpler: they think that they are strong enough to fight on two fronts. Losers. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 15 20:58:23 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: Latest AdSense Scam In-Reply-To: <200607151205.27476.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200607151205.27476.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607151358u528a41dfpcab5ca9f8470dfc6@mail.gmail.com> On 7/15/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Saturday 15 July 2006 11:56, Christopher Browne wrote: > > I see that someone has come up with another idea as to how to destroy > > the Internet... > > http://www.adsensepages.com/index-order.html > > > > I would not be so pessimistic. Google is smart. And the people there who write > searching algorithms too. No Google is most certainly not smart. There are already sites duplicating content which are highly ranked. > Another trick some do is buying a domain name and putting just a collection of > links on the web site, with Google ads as well. These sites are mostly > useless. They are shown in google search results. But I do not think they are > ranked high and I guess they ranking will get lower in the future. No, the ranking on ad-filled sites can stay nice and high.. Google does make money from the advertising, so it's in their best interest to skew things their way for as long as they can get away with it. Which is apparently for a long time.. everyone wants to think Google does no wrong. But they cheat and lie like everyone else does in such a position. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 15:59:48 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:59:48 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers Message-ID: Hi, About 24 hours ago, my Internet service failed, so I went into diagnostic mode, resetting the router, checking for overheated components, and eventually calling Sympatico for technical support. The told me there was no technical problem -- my account had been disabled because of non-payment. Oddly enough, I'd paid the bill five days earlier, as it was now part of my amalgamated phone bill, something the Marketing department calls One Bill. That change was made a few months back. I finally had to use the magic phrase "I need to talk with your supervisor" when the tech told me nothing could be done until Monday morning when the Billing department opened. The supervisor, a very efficient lady called Maya, checked and discovered that, hey, my account was paid up to date. She restored my service right away. I then explained to her that it was probably a bad policy decision for Sympatico to cut off Internet service over the weekend. (Is Bell aware that there are alternatives to their services?) In my case, I need a 24/7 Internet connection in order to stay in contact with work for support purposes, as well as to stay in touch with my wife, who is helping her mother care for my father-in-law. I could have had a difficult time if I'd had to wait until Monday. So, to all the Sympatico subscribers out there .. be aware of this possibility. Apparently Sympatico cuts off service 180 days after the last payment (because that's what happened to me). In my case, they didn't get the memo that I'd been transferred to a One Bill, and presumably missed the fact that they were still getting some kind of transfer payment for my account. And finally, a question: What kind of fallback do the TLUG members have for their Internet connection? I know I've been able to use Sympatico dial-up when my digital modem has died .. I still have a 56K dial-up modem. Because I use it so rarely I haven't had to set my machine up as a DHCP server and web proxy, but could that if necessary. I'm just wondering if I can subscribe to a dial-up service that I can use in an emergency like the one I just had. Thanks! -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 16:11:57 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:11:57 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BA654D.10103@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > And finally, a question: What kind of fallback do the TLUG members have > for their Internet connection? I know I've been able to use Sympatico > dial-up when my digital modem has died .. I still have a 56K dial-up > modem. Because I use it so rarely I haven't had to set my machine up as > a DHCP server and web proxy, but could that if necessary. I'm just > wondering if I can subscribe to a dial-up service that I can use in an > emergency like the one I just had. I use G3 Telecom. I have the $4.95/15 hour plan, for when I want to use dial up, to connect my notebook to my home network. Prior to this, I had my own PPP dial up connection, on my home computer. http://www.g3telecom.com/Dialup.aspx Incidentally, during that big power failure a couple of years back, I really had to rough it, relying on that connection for all my internet access, at least until the notebook battery died. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 16:16:55 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:16:55 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: <44BA654D.10103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BA654D.10103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44BA6677.1070502@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: > >> And finally, a question: What kind of fallback do the TLUG members have >> for their Internet connection? I know I've been able to use Sympatico >> dial-up when my digital modem has died .. I still have a 56K dial-up >> modem. Because I use it so rarely I haven't had to set my machine up as >> a DHCP server and web proxy, but could that if necessary. I'm just >> wondering if I can subscribe to a dial-up service that I can use in an >> emergency like the one I just had. > > I use G3 Telecom. I have the $4.95/15 hour plan, for when I want to use > dial up, to connect my notebook to my home network. Prior to this, I > had my own PPP dial up connection, on my home computer. > > http://www.g3telecom.com/Dialup.aspx > > Incidentally, during that big power failure a couple of years back, I > really had to rough it, relying on that connection for all my internet > access, at least until the notebook battery died. I forgot to mention this, from their FAQ: "How do I use G3's Internet Service? Your need a modem-equipped computer to access our Internet service. We provide detailed setup instructions for setting up our Internet service on computers that runs Microsoft Windows (95 or later). For Linux computers we recommend following the PPP How-To, included with most distributions. For other computers, please refer to your documentation for details." So, as you can see, they're not afraid of Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 16:16:52 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:16:52 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Our Sympatico connection was about to be disconnected unless we paid the $0.00 balance owing. I asked if we should sent in a cheque or payment in the amount of $0.00. Actually the $0.00, was a catch 22. They would not continue the service until paid, and they would accept only a payment to clear the current balance. (0.00) And they COULD NOT change the all mighty computer. People eventually prevailed over the computer. /teddy Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi, > > About 24 hours ago, my Internet service failed, so I went into > diagnostic mode, resetting the router, checking for overheated > components, and eventually calling Sympatico for technical support. > The told me there was no technical problem -- my account had been > disabled because of non-payment. Oddly enough, I'd paid the bill five > days earlier, as it was now part of my amalgamated phone bill, > something the Marketing department calls One Bill. That change was > made a few months back. > > I finally had to use the magic phrase "I need to talk with your > supervisor" when the tech told me nothing could be done until Monday > morning when the Billing department opened. The supervisor, a very > efficient lady called Maya, checked and discovered that, hey, my > account was paid up to date. She restored my service right away. > > I then explained to her that it was probably a bad policy decision for > Sympatico to cut off Internet service over the weekend. (Is Bell aware > that there are alternatives to their services?) In my case, I need a > 24/7 Internet connection in order to stay in contact with work for > support purposes, as well as to stay in touch with my wife, who is > helping her mother care for my father-in-law. I could have had a > difficult time if I'd had to wait until Monday. > > So, to all the Sympatico subscribers out there .. be aware of this > possibility. Apparently Sympatico cuts off service 180 days after the > last payment (because that's what happened to me). In my case, they > didn't get the memo that I'd been transferred to a One Bill, and > presumably missed the fact that they were still getting some kind of > transfer payment for my account. > > And finally, a question: What kind of fallback do the TLUG members > have for their Internet connection? I know I've been able to use > Sympatico dial-up when my digital modem has died .. I still have a 56K > dial-up modem. Because I use it so rarely I haven't had to set my > machine up as a DHCP server and web proxy, but could that if > necessary. I'm just wondering if I can subscribe to a dial-up service > that I can use in an emergency like the one I just had. > > Thanks! > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 16:36:13 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:36:13 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Regarding fallback... One ADSL link with a static /27, and one dry-loop ADSL link with another static /27, and talking iBGP with the upstream provider. Total monthly cost is about $125. Of course, when a WIC-1ADSL is around $500, and you need two, as well as a router with two or more WIC slots... not so cheap. Unless you happen to have the hardware just lying around. The cheaper solution is to add a dry-loop connection from another provider, and when one goes down, plug into the other. However, if the DSLAM is down, then you're fairly pooched. However, there's PPPoA... -- Vlad On 7/16/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi, > > About 24 hours ago, my Internet service failed, so I went into diagnostic > mode, resetting the router, checking for overheated components, and > eventually calling Sympatico for technical support. The told me there was no > technical problem -- my account had been disabled because of non-payment. > Oddly enough, I'd paid the bill five days earlier, as it was now part of my > amalgamated phone bill, something the Marketing department calls One Bill. > That change was made a few months back. > > I finally had to use the magic phrase "I need to talk with your supervisor" > when the tech told me nothing could be done until Monday morning when the > Billing department opened. The supervisor, a very efficient lady called > Maya, checked and discovered that, hey, my account was paid up to date. She > restored my service right away. > > I then explained to her that it was probably a bad policy decision for > Sympatico to cut off Internet service over the weekend. (Is Bell aware that > there are alternatives to their services?) In my case, I need a 24/7 > Internet connection in order to stay in contact with work for support > purposes, as well as to stay in touch with my wife, who is helping her > mother care for my father-in-law. I could have had a difficult time if I'd > had to wait until Monday. > > So, to all the Sympatico subscribers out there .. be aware of this > possibility. Apparently Sympatico cuts off service 180 days after the last > payment (because that's what happened to me). In my case, they didn't get > the memo that I'd been transferred to a One Bill, and presumably missed the > fact that they were still getting some kind of transfer payment for my > account. > > And finally, a question: What kind of fallback do the TLUG members have for > their Internet connection? I know I've been able to use Sympatico dial-up > when my digital modem has died .. I still have a 56K dial-up modem. Because > I use it so rarely I haven't had to set my machine up as a DHCP server and > web proxy, but could that if necessary. I'm just wondering if I can > subscribe to a dial-up service that I can use in an emergency like the one I > just had. > > Thanks! > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 16:57:28 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:57:28 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BA6FF8.6070300@rogers.com> teddy mills wrote: > > Our Sympatico connection was about to be disconnected unless we paid the > $0.00 balance owing. I asked if we should sent in a cheque or payment in > the amount of $0.00. > Actually the $0.00, was a catch 22. They would not continue the > service until paid, and they would accept only a payment to clear the > current balance. (0.00) > And they COULD NOT change the all mighty computer. People eventually > prevailed over the computer. Did they charge interest on the balance? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 18:32:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:32:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: <44BA6FF8.6070300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BA6FF8.6070300@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, James Knott wrote: > teddy mills wrote: >> >> Our Sympatico connection was about to be disconnected unless we paid the >> $0.00 balance owing. I asked if we should sent in a cheque or payment in >> the amount of $0.00. >> Actually the $0.00, was a catch 22. They would not continue the >> service until paid, and they would accept only a payment to clear the >> current balance. (0.00) >> And they COULD NOT change the all mighty computer. People eventually >> prevailed over the computer. > > Did they charge interest on the balance? ;-) No, handling and insurance fees, and registration and cancellation fees. These are fixed sums and would not be diminished by being a percentage of 0.00 . Murphy never sleeps. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 16 23:22:13 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:22:13 -0400 Subject: Note to Sympatico One Bill customers In-Reply-To: <44BA6674.7050201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <44BA6674.7050201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060716232213.GA5161@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 12:16:52PM -0400, teddy mills wrote: > > Our Sympatico connection was about to be disconnected unless we paid the > $0.00 balance owing. I asked if we should sent in a cheque or payment in > the amount of $0.00. > Actually the $0.00, was a catch 22. They would not continue the > service until paid, and they would accept only a payment to clear the > current balance. (0.00) > And they COULD NOT change the all mighty computer. People eventually > prevailed over the computer. Probably internal round off error. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 02:14:05 2006 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:14:05 -0400 Subject: Looking for a *QUIET* computer In-Reply-To: <44B81330.5020704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <44B81330.5020704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f0607161914s21d88176i55a517e90293c563@mail.gmail.com> > I'm not a huge fan of Dell, but we have a ton of them at work, and they > are by far the quietest big-vendor boxes I've ever come across. It's > like they're not even there. Dell seems to acheive quiet through slow fans and higher temps of everything inside the case. This is especially true of their thinner case designs (Optiplex, etc.), the outside becomes almost too hot to touch. On the plus side, you could reheat a lunch by just leaving it near the rear exhaust vent. Cheers, Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 02:44:36 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:44:36 -0400 Subject: Tom's HW Guide: Linux for gaming Message-ID: <44BAF994.8080401@telly.org> http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/12/geforce_and_radeon_take_on_linux/ I've often trusted Tom's Hardware Guide for good reviews of hardware components, especially motherboards. It was interesting to see the site actually tackle something Linux-ish, let alone the use of Linux as a games system. Those reading this list who are involved with ATI (you know who you are) are invited to use this article to help prod the company to match and surpass nVidia's level of support. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 06:23:50 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:23:50 -0400 Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> Message-ID: <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> > > It's much simpler: they think that they are strong enough to fight > on two fronts. Losers. Microsoft isn't "shifting focus" to Google as their mortal enemy. Microsoft is just competing in all of the marketplaces that it has its tentacles in. Microsoft has its hands in lots of cookie jars, and it's going to fight for all the cookies in all of those jars. But while the marketplace would have people play "rock/paper/ scissors" to determine who gets each cookie, Microsoft would rather just pull out a glock and get all the cookies. Think of it. Microsoft is competing with Nintendo and Sony in the console market. They compete with Logitech (and arguably a couple other companies) in the user interface device market (keyboards/mice/ trackballs/etc). They compete with Google in web services. They are now competing with Google for enterprise search. They are competing with Linux & Sun for server operating systems. They are competing with Oracle, IBM, MySQL, etc for databases. The list goes on. This is well more than a 'two front war.' Microsoft is making lots of hubbub about Google because Google is getting lots of good press, and rolling out lots of web services. Remember, web services instead of software on your computer is the way that Bill Gates thought things were going to go... all the way back when they crushed Netscape. They crushed Netscape due to the fear that the browser+plugins would render the operating system useless (plugins would allow you to create applications and application functionality through the web... basically what AJAX is accomplishing now, with word processors, spreadsheets, diagraming tools, etc all running through javascript in a browser). This is just Microsoft trying to create a commotion to say, "Hey! Look at us over here! Google sucks, we will crush them!" Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 08:34:37 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Web Services [Was: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours] In-Reply-To: <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > AJAX is accomplishing now, with word processors, spreadsheets, diagraming > tools, etc all running through javascript in a browser). This is just Of course what you have then is a thin client running through a browser on a fat OS. Why not take the next logical step and just drop the fat OS underneath? The major substantive difference between the thin client approach I advocate and the web services approach is where the apps are running. I'd always rather have the data on a box under the control of the owners of the data. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 11:28:49 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:28:49 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: >> It's much simpler: they think that they are strong enough to fight on two >> fronts. Losers. > > Microsoft isn't "shifting focus" to Google as their mortal enemy. Microsoft > is just competing in all of the marketplaces that it has its tentacles in. > Microsoft has its hands in lots of cookie jars, and it's going to fight for > all the cookies in all of those jars. But while the marketplace would have > people play "rock/paper/scissors" to determine who gets each cookie, > Microsoft would rather just pull out a glock and get all the cookies. > > Think of it. Microsoft is competing with Nintendo and Sony in the console > market. They compete with Logitech (and arguably a couple other companies) m$ was once upon a time poised to be the 'first'. This goes back to 'The Road Ahead' and MS Basic and Altair 8000. But at some time after that bean-counters and greed took over. Ever since, they are second comers, second best and rely on millions of customers as beta testers. This company is not in IT. It is in moneymaking. The fact that some of its products have an IT flavor is a coincidence that will likely be remedied by the slow but sure demise of the PC platform, heralded by the ever-decreasing margins in this business. Everything remotely connected to IT that makes money, they will try to claim a stake in. The first recorded plagiatus, err, embrace and extension was the Apple vs. Windows GUI Look & Feel lawsuit. Followed by text editors, spreadsheets (123 where are you?) and lots of others, including a small bite of Java, and a large bite of a company once called Netscape that no longer exists. There are hundreds of thousands of programmers out there who saw their careers cut down in their best years due to the shenanigans of this company. Now one has Vista looking exactly like Aero, with glass flavor. live.com looks like Google. Nintendo and Sony made money with games consoles, so they joined that too. TV/networking/set top boxes ? Joined. Apparel, keyboards, mice ? Joined. The only thing that matters for these guys is the bottom line. For a fortune 500 company that is clearly the way to go. But I'd think twice about using their products for anything long-term or serious. Perhaps it is not an accident that most renowned and reputable engineering and technology companies are not so rich, not to mention that their CEOs are not so rich. It has something to do with the risky business of engineering, r&d and testing expenses, and their commitment to customers over 10,20,30 years and more, and responsability on par with the requirements of government IT, education, and archival. That does not leave so much money for unbelievable publicity expenses, PR, flamboyant speeches that would doom the credibility of any other kind of business, and largesse in charity, I think. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 12:45:31 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: need some licencing advice Message-ID: <200607170845.32746.ican@netrover.com> I'm preparing to release some code which utilizes my LGPL'd SIMPL library. This code is intended to expose a framework consisting of a messaging API and several highly customizable SIMPL executables. In addition to a name (my problem) I need to chose a licence for this framework which require that derivative works be licenced under the same terms but can attract commericial entities who may connect their modules to the API. This is very similar to what the SugarCRM project does. They use a modified MPL for their project. I'm guessing that the straight GPL might work in the same manner as it works for Linux. Changes to the OS are considered derivative. Apps written to the Linux API are not. I am not a lawyer nor am I able to understand much of the legalese in these licences. Any suggestions? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 13:14:25 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:14:25 -0400 Subject: Samba/WinXP problem Message-ID: <44BB8D31.1040506@alteeve.com> Hi all, Until recently, I had managed to always keep my clients who needed MS at Win2k (the best MS put out, imho :p ). However, I've now got a network of WinXP SP2 machines that I run on an NT4-style domain with an Ubuntu/Samba3.x server. On most of the machines (~ dozen) everything works great. On a couple machines though, for no reason I can fathom (thus this post), once the machines are joined to the domain I can no longer do anything (even update the virus program, Symantec AV Corporate Edition) or run Windows Update. I have the domain user as a local administrator and even when I log into the local machine instead of the domain as the local machine's admin user I get no love. As soon as I disjoin the domain though, voila, all good again. I don't know if this is a samba problem per se, because the files effected are NOT stored on the server (ie: c:\documents and settings\all users\application data\symantec\*) but roaming profiles are. Any other hapless admins run into this problem? Did you find a solution? Thanks!!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 13:13:57 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:13:57 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Ohio LinuxFest 2006 - Registration Open] Message-ID: <1153142037.10793.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Forwarded from the Ohio LinuxFest organizing committee. I've attended a few of these and they are a hoot! Great speakers and topics, interesting exhibitors and exhibits, and lots and lots of other Linux Folks. The Birds of a Feather topics have been my favourite. Worth the trip to Columbus! -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: team-EKcs2/Y94wihPH1hqNUYSQ at public.gmane.org > To: undisclosed-recipients : ; > Subject: Ohio LinuxFest 2006 - Registration Open > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:34:30 -0400 > > Last year's Ohio LinuxFest was, hands-down, the best one yet. With more > than 700 attendees and great speakers from KDE, IBM, Novell, HP, the > Linux Terminal Server Project, Ubuntu, the Apache Software Foundation, > and many others, it was a great time for all involved -- and we're sure > that this year will be even better. > > This year's LinuxFest will be held at the Greater Columbus Convention > Center on Saturday, September 30. This is an event for experienced and > inexperienced Linux users, with three conference tracks, an expo floor > with commercial exhibitors and community projects, and the opportunity > to meet hundreds of other FOSS users and enthusiasts. > > The Ohio LinuxFest 2006 is free for all to attend, but you do need to > register ahead of time. This year we're also offering an All Conference > Pass for $65 that will help offset the cost of running the conference. The > All Conference Pass includes lunch on the day of the conference, drink > tickets for the party after the conference, vendor swag, access to > the conference suite at the Holiday Inn, and a limited-edition Ohio > LinuxFest t-shirt. > > If you're planning to attend, sign up at http://ohiolinux.org/attend.html, > and be sure to do so early. The registration deadline is September 22, > but we do recommend that you register early to help us gain an accurate > head count to plan by. For those attending the LinuxFest from out of > town, we have arranged a group rate through the Holiday Inn Columbus > City Center, but the number of rooms are limited and reservations > must be made before September 5 to qualify for the group rate. See > http://ohiolinux.org/attend_hotel.html for more information on lodging. > > There's still time to sign up as a speaker or sponsor for this year's > Ohio LinuxFest as well. The deadline for speaker applications has been > extended to July 31, and we encourage members of the Linux and open > source community to submit a speaker application right away. We're > looking for presentations from open source developers, commercial > organizations using Linux and open source, and end users who have valuable > experience to share with other attendees. More information is available > at http://ohiolinux.org/speak.html. > > Sponsorship packages are still available as well. Organizations can choose > from the Platinum, Gold, and Silver packages; Each package includes space > on the exhibition floor, space in the Ohio LinuxFest Program, not to > mention the opportunity to help bolster the FOSS community in the Mid-West > while spreading the word about your organization. The sponsorship packages > are explained in more detail at http://ohiolinux.org/sponsor.html. > > We also have a limited number of .Org sponsorship packages available, > but they're going fast. Be sure to sign up right away if you'd like to > represent your FOSS project at the Ohio LinuxFest. > > This year's Ohio LinuxFest is shaping up to be the best one ever, so be > sure to register right away. We look forward to seeing you in Columbus > in September! > > Best regards, > > The Ohio LinuxFest organizers team-EKcs2/Y94wihPH1hqNUYSQ at public.gmane.org > > PS. Please forward this announcement to your friends, co-workers, and > mail lists. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 13:21:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:21:13 -0400 Subject: Samba/WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <44BB8D31.1040506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BB8D31.1040506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060717132113.GV13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 09:14:25AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until recently, I had managed to always keep my clients who needed MS > at Win2k (the best MS put out, imho :p ). However, I've now got a > network of WinXP SP2 machines that I run on an NT4-style domain with an > Ubuntu/Samba3.x server. > > On most of the machines (~ dozen) everything works great. On a couple > machines though, for no reason I can fathom (thus this post), once the > machines are joined to the domain I can no longer do anything (even > update the virus program, Symantec AV Corporate Edition) or run Windows > Update. I have the domain user as a local administrator and even when I > log into the local machine instead of the domain as the local machine's > admin user I get no love. As soon as I disjoin the domain though, voila, > all good again. > > I don't know if this is a samba problem per se, because the files > effected are NOT stored on the server (ie: c:\documents and settings\all > users\application data\symantec\*) but roaming profiles are. > > Any other hapless admins run into this problem? Did you find a solution? Which version of samba? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 13:36:11 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:36:11 +0000 Subject: need some licencing advice In-Reply-To: <200607170845.32746.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200607170845.32746.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: On 7/17/06, bob wrote: > I'm preparing to release some code which utilizes my LGPL'd SIMPL library. > > This code is intended to expose a framework consisting of a messaging API and > several highly customizable SIMPL executables. > > In addition to a name (my problem) I need to chose a licence for this > framework which require that derivative works be licenced under the same > terms but can attract commericial entities who may connect their modules to > the API. > > This is very similar to what the SugarCRM project does. They use a modified > MPL for their project. > > I'm guessing that the straight GPL might work in the same manner as it works > for Linux. Changes to the OS are considered derivative. Apps written to > the Linux API are not. > > I am not a lawyer nor am I able to understand much of the legalese in these > licences. > > Any suggestions? What do you WANT? That's really the determining factor. If you want the system as widely used as possible, then a BSD style license restricts as little as possible. If you want to tightly control how it is extended, then the GPL tends to be preferable for that, as it means that anyone looking for any "proprietary usage" will have to negotiate other arrangements with you. The LGPL falls somewhere in between. There are other licenses out there; most aren't as well understood as the three I mentioned. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 14:01:37 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:01:37 -0400 Subject: Samba/WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <20060717132113.GV13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44BB8D31.1040506@alteeve.com> <20060717132113.GV13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44BB9841.6030107@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 09:14:25AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Until recently, I had managed to always keep my clients who needed MS >> at Win2k (the best MS put out, imho :p ). However, I've now got a >> network of WinXP SP2 machines that I run on an NT4-style domain with an >> Ubuntu/Samba3.x server. >> >> On most of the machines (~ dozen) everything works great. On a couple >> machines though, for no reason I can fathom (thus this post), once the >> machines are joined to the domain I can no longer do anything (even >> update the virus program, Symantec AV Corporate Edition) or run Windows >> Update. I have the domain user as a local administrator and even when I >> log into the local machine instead of the domain as the local machine's >> admin user I get no love. As soon as I disjoin the domain though, voila, >> all good again. >> >> I don't know if this is a samba problem per se, because the files >> effected are NOT stored on the server (ie: c:\documents and settings\all >> users\application data\symantec\*) but roaming profiles are. >> >> Any other hapless admins run into this problem? Did you find a solution? > > Which version of samba? Version 3.0.14a-Ubuntu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 14:59:16 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... Message-ID: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the Park event in August. The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the following: - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to power several laptops). - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. What else should be looked at for an event like this? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 14:59:42 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:59:42 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft Dinner Meeting - Canceled Message-ID: <1153148382.3746.12.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Due to some unforeseen events, I've had to cancel this month's PegaSoft dinner meeting on "Introductory SQL". Next month is the annual Linux Summer Retreat. The dinner will be postponed to September. Ken B. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 16:02:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:02:02 -0400 Subject: need some licencing advice In-Reply-To: <200607170845.32746.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200607170845.32746.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <44BBB47A.9070709@telly.org> bob wrote: >I'm guessing that the straight GPL might work in the same manner as it works >for Linux. Changes to the OS are considered derivative. Apps written to >the Linux API are not. > > That only happens because the libraries are LGPL'd. If the libraries were GPL then (according to the FSF's interpretation) anything linking to it is a derivative work. That's why the LGPL was invented in the first place, to prevent that limitation. To get the result you want, IMO, any library implementing your API should be LGPL'd as you've already done with your SIMPL stuff. One alternative for you is to go to Creative Commons website; they have a tool that suggests a license (from a pool of many) based on how you answer specific questions. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 16:16:41 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:16:41 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: Web Page Kung Fu Message-ID: <1153153001.3746.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> This month I talk about defending oneself against web site design fraud. Ken B. http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_july_2006.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 16:40:25 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Web page design In-Reply-To: <1153153001.3746.19.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153153001.3746.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <50762.207.188.67.241.1153154425.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I'm not worried about 'Web Page Fraud', but this page has some suggestions on checking out a web page - for sizing, fonts and other issues - that might be relevant. I read the original book 'web pages that suck' and it was pretty amusing. The site is referred to here. P. ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This month I talk about defending oneself against web site design fraud. > > Ken B. > > http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_july_2006.html > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 > Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 > http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken at pegasoft.ca > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 17:13:27 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:13:27 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060717131327.isb5f9t5tw4k4s8k@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> We should have a section to help newbies with installs (aka installfest), have some distros available etc. thoughts? Quoting Colin McGregor : > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 17:14:10 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:14:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > What else should be looked at for an event like this? wet penguin t-shirt contest? ;-) On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 17:29:47 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. Hi Colin. Is the plan for this event to be in addition to the monthly meeting? Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 17:49:05 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:49:05 -0400 Subject: Teddy-Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1. Put Craigslist ads up now, and update once a week 2. paper flyers on telephone posts. one week in advance 3. probably too many logistics to safely/legally run power/cable to the park. 4. park can be for laptops and desktops can be setup at linuxcaffe.(extra power cables and power bars) 5. need some music! 20 watts at minimum..and in this case more is better 6. make up a simple schedule for the day...so people know what time things should be ... 7. Dave? are we allowed to have a small fire in the sandpit? (hot dogs, marshmallows etc) Scott C. Ripley wrote: > >> What else should be looked at for an event like this? > > wet penguin t-shirt contest? ;-) > > > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of >> Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the >> Park event in August. >> >> The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some >> Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a >> park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and >> Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the >> following: >> >> - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). >> - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to >> power several laptops). >> - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. >> >> What else should be looked at for an event like this? >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:01:03 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:01:03 -0400 Subject: need some licencing advice In-Reply-To: <44BBB47A.9070709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200607170845.32746.ican@netrover.com> <44BBB47A.9070709@telly.org> Message-ID: <200607171401.04274.ican@netrover.com> > > To get the result you want, IMO, any library implementing your API > should be LGPL'd as you've already done with your SIMPL stuff. > I considered this but most of the code would not be in the form of a library but rather a series of cooperating, highly extendable executable modules each which link to the LGPL'd SIMPL library. As such I couldn't see the language of the LGPL applying. I suppose I could rework the framework aspects of the code so that it could be cast as a library ... but that seems a little like the "tail wagging the dog". I can see two distinct types of derivative development happening with the code: a) modifications and extensions to existing modules/framework b) new modules which implement the open messaging API to (ie. using SIMPL to talk to) another existing module I'd like to copyleft a) but leave flexibility in b). My reasoning is that this code initially will likely find applicability in a narrow niche of building access control software. Within this niche users will need some closed software which implements the secure aspects of the access control function. eg. encription algorithms, card code decoding algorithms, proprietary hardware interfacing algorithms etc. What do you know about the various MPL derivatives? Sugar CRM seems to have gone this route. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:15:37 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:15:37 -0400 Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835@tri-coder.org> They may have joined the input device market later, but most of their input devices are top-notch in my experience. This is one area where Microsoft really excels. I think a lot of it is due to the fact that they really rely on standards here. There is no 'MS Windows-only' lock in. Most of their devices are USB-HID compliant. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:20:40 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060717182040.55622.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > > Park event in August. > > Hi Colin. Is the plan for this event to be in > addition to the monthly > meeting? Yes. Face it, with our crowd it would take an earthquake to stop the 2nd Tuesday of the month bit, so this sort of thing would have to be on top of the usual meeting... Colin. > Cheers, > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:26:26 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:26:26 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? Message-ID: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I discovered this afternoon that my server was rooted. I don't think they were in there very long, but after noticing some of my services down, I went in and through the .bash_history file, saw some commands that were not issued by me. I changed the password on the root account, rebooted the box and made sure all services were running. Other than seeing some passwords missing in my mysql database I don't know what else was done. Does anyone have any guidance for what to do with a machine after it's been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. I'd also love to know how they got in... Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:30:34 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw@public.gmane.org> References: <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: <20060717183034.42759.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > They may have joined the input device market later, > but most of their > input devices are top-notch in my experience. This > is one area where > Microsoft really excels. I think a lot of it is due > to the fact that > they really rely on standards here. There is no 'MS > Windows-only' > lock in. Most of their devices are USB-HID > compliant. I have a fondness for some Microsoft mice/keyboards, but let's not kid ourselves about Microsoft in this area. Some of the Microsoft devices have odd-ball keys/functions that the Linux community have been left to reverse engineer... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:29:27 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:27 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060717182927.GE5025@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Format the system and restore your data from a last known good backup. You can't trust anything on the system. It could even be a bot right now. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 19:03:32 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:03:32 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw@public.gmane.org> References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > They may have joined the input device market later, but most of their input > devices are top-notch in my experience. This is one area where Microsoft > really excels. I think a lot of it is due to the fact that they really rely > on standards here. There is no 'MS Windows-only' lock in. Most of their > devices are USB-HID compliant. My mouse is m$, optical. The quality is good. However I looked iside. Imho, the mouse has a single bug: the logo. It should say Agilent-Cypress. That sort of explains the quality ;-). You see, most supermarkets who rebrand things can't afford to rebrand all the little parts that go into 'their' products ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 18:47:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060717184741.1281.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- "Scott C. Ripley" wrote: > > What else should be looked at for an event like > this? > > wet penguin t-shirt contest? ;-) The list of local Linux fans who would look good in a wet penguin t-shirt is very painfully short (a list roughly the same length as the number of female Linux fans :-) ), and many of the local Linux fans would look ... stomach turning awful in a wet t-shirt (no I will not mention names...). Plus, I don't like the idea of wet stuff near laptop PCs... > On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > > Park event in August. > > > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with > some > > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down > in a > > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor > and > > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > > following: > > > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside > Linuxcaffe). > > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, > enough to > > power several laptops). > > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > > > What else should be looked at for an event like > this? > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > Scott C. Ripley > phone: (416)738-6357 > www: http://www.scottripley.com > email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org > > Secure Your E-Mail! > http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 19:19:03 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:19:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ to Google: do not dare take away from us what isn't ours In-Reply-To: References: <44B8F165.709@execulink.com> <44B92071.2050309@telly.org> <24D20221-CCEF-464D-80BD-8B1334B7FF30@tri-coder.org> <7DA11D22-1660-427F-8D5F-24D87E6A2835@tri-coder.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Peter wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > >> They may have joined the input device market later, but most of their input >> devices are top-notch in my experience. This is one area where Microsoft >> really excels. I think a lot of it is due to the fact that they really >> rely on standards here. There is no 'MS Windows-only' lock in. Most of >> their devices are USB-HID compliant. > > My mouse is m$, optical. The quality is good. However I looked iside. Imho, > the mouse has a single bug: the logo. It should say Agilent-Cypress. That > sort of explains the quality ;-). You see, most supermarkets who rebrand > things can't afford to rebrand all the little parts that go into 'their' > products ... Oh, and I forgot about the undocumented packet it sends when it turns the led power low after a few moments of inactivity ... it causes a button 5 event in X11 which scrolls the page I am looking at by a little. And it is not deterministic ... that probably means they really did the firmware ;-(. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 19:23:39 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:23:39 -0400 Subject: Web page design In-Reply-To: <50762.207.188.67.241.1153154425.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1153153001.3746.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <50762.207.188.67.241.1153154425.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44BBE3BB.4050804@telly.org> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm not worried about 'Web Page Fraud', but this page has some suggestions > on checking out a web page - for sizing, fonts and other issues - that > might be relevant. > There are a number of tools for testing sites, including a few that also check for accessibility guidelines (ie, can sites be use with tools that convert pages to braille). One that I have used is http://webxact.watchfire.com/ Of course, the lynx test is always a good one. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 19:42:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:42:57 -0400 Subject: Samba/WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <44BB9841.6030107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BB8D31.1040506@alteeve.com> <20060717132113.GV13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44BB9841.6030107@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060717194257.GW13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 10:01:37AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Version 3.0.14a-Ubuntu Well all I have found so far is that XP SP2 doesn't work with early 3.0.x released. I haven't found what the definition of 'early' is. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 20:13:10 2006 From: michael.r.newman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Newman) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:13:10 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BBEF56.3000306@gmail.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Does anyone have any guidance for what to do with a machine after it's > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. I'd also love to > know how they got in... This article showed up on Digg today. http://www.ducea.com/2006/07/17/how-to-restore-a-hacked-linux-server/ Hopefully it has some tips that are useful to you. In any case, best of luck getting things back on track. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jweissig-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 21:41:13 2006 From: jweissig-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Justin Weissig) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:41:13 -0700 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <217ddce00607171441s4bf4736esdaa35ffbdce81741@mail.gmail.com> Hey, Honestly, I would (1), remove the system from the network immediately especially if you have any critical / confidential information hosted on it. Given that the user was actually logged into the system and running commands that you could see via bash_history (newbie does not hide his tracks) is especially disturbing! Most of the time a simple bot will gain access but not root your machine. Who knows what a person would do! A bot typical just puts a couple files around an connects to IRC. Reasoning is simple; the intruder could come back for something else or delete anything at will. A rebuild is REQUIRED! (2) Backup everything and re-install the system. Run all the updates (look for php scripts that have holes! phpbb, etc other that services that are old this is how people get in) and disable any non-critical services. Lock down permissions. Make mysql only listen on localhost if your only connecting locally. (3) Restore the data to the machine. (4) Watch it. The intruder will likely be back and try his old accounts. Now obviously this is in a perfect world where you don't have people accessing this machine 24/7. Maybe you have a second machine that you can prepare and methodically migrate your required services too. If you want more advice feel free to contact me. - Justin On 7/17/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I discovered this afternoon that my server was rooted. I don't think > they were in there very long, but after noticing some of my services > down, I went in and through the .bash_history file, saw some commands > that were not issued by me. I changed the password on the root > account, rebooted the box and made sure all services were running. > Other than seeing some passwords missing in my mysql database I don't > know what else was done. > > Does anyone have any guidance for what to do with a machine after it's > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. I'd also love to > know how they got in... > > Thanks, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 22:13:55 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:13:55 -0400 Subject: Web page design In-Reply-To: <44BBE3BB.4050804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1153153001.3746.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <50762.207.188.67.241.1153154425.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <44BBE3BB.4050804@telly.org> Message-ID: <8AB55D19-2F22-4BAD-813B-971B72FB8F07@tri-coder.org> > > Of course, the lynx test is always a good one. True, but that doesn't always get things like "Click here" If that is used in a sentence (e.g. "Click here to learn more") it's fine in lynx, but there are accessibility tools out there that will read off the list of links on the page. The linked text should be something more descriptive of what the link is pointing to for 'true' accessibility. If it were something like "More information about our product.", it's more accessible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 22:56:23 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:56:23 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44BC1597.2070209@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? Free beer as in free software? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 17 23:44:19 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:44:19 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. Since you have no way of knowing what they left behind, you should reinstall the server and also run something like trip wire. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 01:54:21 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:54:21 -0400 Subject: CBC's website and OSS Message-ID: <44BC3F4D.7000106@pppoe.ca> "...The e-mail servers that deliver the newsletters runs on an open source Unix operating system called FreeBSD ..." :-) http://www.insidethecbc.com/2006/07/15/under-the-hood-at-cbcca-open-source Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 03:03:51 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:03:51 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <44BC20D3.8000005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the advice. My first step was to eliminate two user accounts created by the attacker, and I've been watching the server all day for any further activity; there's been none. I did see the installation of an IRC bot called psybnc; I don't really understand what that's about or why people do that... anyone care to explain? It's gone now, anyway. My server is a dedicated machine with only shell access, so taking it offline isn't an option. I've written to the hoster's tech support, and they came back with: "the only thing i was able to find on the system was a udp flood running out of /tmp i have removed permissions from this folder so it wont be able to run anymore. since youve already changed the password the only other thing i would recommend is go over the users on your system and make sure noone has created any new users allowing them to login with shell access to install more of their scipts and such at this time i show nothing running on the server that shouldnt be." Interesting. I'm asking them for a quote to re-image the drive, which I'll pursue as soon as possible. Cheers, Aaron. On 7/17/06, James Knott wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. > > Since you have no way of knowing what they left behind, you should > reinstall the server and also run something like trip wire. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 03:17:51 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:17:51 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: First, psybnc is NOT an IRC bot; it's a bouncer. It just lets you "bounce" your IRC connection through it, to make it look like you're connected from that host. Second, people do that for various reasons, most of them being fairly infantile, or malicious. There's too much to say, really, but most can be summed up by telling them to grow the hell up already. Third... wait. Did they change the perms on /tmp, thereby breaking more things than can be imagined? Sigh. --Vlad On 7/17/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks for all the advice. > > My first step was to eliminate two user accounts created by the > attacker, and I've been watching the server all day for any further > activity; there's been none. I did see the installation of an IRC bot > called psybnc; I don't really understand what that's about or why > people do that... anyone care to explain? It's gone now, anyway. > > My server is a dedicated machine with only shell access, so taking it > offline isn't an option. I've written to the hoster's tech support, > and they came back with: > > "the only thing i was able to find on the system was a udp flood > running out of /tmp i have removed permissions from this folder so it > wont be able to run anymore. since youve already changed the password > the only other thing i would recommend is go over the users on your > system and make sure noone has created any new users allowing them to > login with shell access to install more of their scipts and such at > this time i show nothing running on the server that shouldnt be." > > Interesting. I'm asking them for a quote to re-image the drive, which > I'll pursue as soon as possible. > > Cheers, > Aaron. > > On 7/17/06, James Knott wrote: > > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > > > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. > > > > Since you have no way of knowing what they left behind, you should > > reinstall the server and also run something like trip wire. > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 04:08:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:08:17 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks for all the advice. > > My first step was to eliminate two user accounts created by the > attacker, and I've been watching the server all day for any further > activity; there's been none. I did see the installation of an IRC bot > called psybnc; I don't really understand what that's about or why > people do that... anyone care to explain? It's gone now, anyway. > > My server is a dedicated machine with only shell access, so taking it > offline isn't an option. I've written to the hoster's tech support, > and they came back with: > > "the only thing i was able to find on the system was a udp flood > running out of /tmp i have removed permissions from this folder so it > wont be able to run anymore. since youve already changed the password > the only other thing i would recommend is go over the users on your > system and make sure noone has created any new users allowing them to > login with shell access to install more of their scipts and such at > this time i show nothing running on the server that shouldnt be." Have you considered that your root account may well be compromised? What about your mysql user account as you mentioned? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 12:52:08 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:52:08 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200607180852.09076.softquake@gmail.com> You should rather reinstall the system. And try to do that in a more secure way. Firewall. Improving security might be a solution but do not trust that. Once the system has been compromised it should be reinstalled. You never know what was done there. Heh, I saw similar cases even on production servers of companies who would wish to be considered respectfull ;) zb. On Monday 17 July 2006 23:03, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks for all the advice. > > My first step was to eliminate two user accounts created by the > attacker, and I've been watching the server all day for any further > Cheers, > Aaron. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 14:56:29 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:56:29 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BCF69D.1000808@georgetown.wehave.net> Aaron Vegh wrote: > My first step was to eliminate two user accounts created by the > attacker, and I've been watching the server all day for any further > activity; there's been none. I did see the installation of an IRC bot How are you monitoring? Are you sure there are not hidden processes which you do not see - have you verified that ps, top, netstat, etc are not modified? You can find out a lot of these things from the running system but it takes knowledge and these days the rootkits might be good enough to even modify /proc entries ... the only sure way is to take the system offline and verify every binary, then verify every single modified file (config file, init scripts, etc.), then apply ever single security update that is applicable to your system - if you haven't figured out how they got in then every single network accessible application should be suspect. > My server is a dedicated machine with only shell access, so taking it > offline isn't an option. I've written to the hoster's tech support, > and they came back with: Is it business critical that people get shell access from the Internet? Are you at least using ssh with key based authentication and blocking password authentication? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 14:59:55 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:59:55 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BC20D3.8000005@rogers.com> <4386c5b20607172003v15b2a3bfg48da16bc6c8ae04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BCF76B.4020104@georgetown.wehave.net> Vlad wrote: > Third... wait. Did they change the perms on /tmp, thereby > breaking more things than can be imagined? If they mounted it noexec that would be enough to stop most attackers from running stuff under /tmp - most, it's not impossible. Of course he said permissions, the answer is vague enough to be scary. I often set up my Debian systems with /tmp and /var noexec, no problems. A minor issue is that if you set up apt to ask all config questions up front then, dpkg (or debconf?) will run some preconfigure scripts from /tmp but it fails gracefully so no issues. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:21:15 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:21:15 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aaron, Everyone so far is being polite. Regardless of how important this is to your business you MUST reformat it and rebuild it. If I were you're hosting company I'd pull the plug on the machine. What would happen if this machine were to fail due to hardware problems, consider this a learning experience of how to deal with hardware failures. They do happen! Regards, Dave On 17-Jul-06, at 2:26 PM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I discovered this afternoon that my server was rooted. I don't think > they were in there very long, but after noticing some of my services > down, I went in and through the .bash_history file, saw some commands > that were not issued by me. I changed the password on the root > account, rebooted the box and made sure all services were running. > Other than seeing some passwords missing in my mysql database I don't > know what else was done. > > Does anyone have any guidance for what to do with a machine after it's > been rooted? I feel violated, but the server is also running important > parts of my business, so I have to keep it going. I'd also love to > know how they got in... > > Thanks, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:29:58 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:29:58 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BCFE76.8040005@yahoo.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I discovered this afternoon that my server was rooted. I don't think > they were in there very long, but after noticing some of my services > down, I went in and through the .bash_history file, saw some commands > that were not issued by me. I changed the password on the root > account, rebooted the box and made sure all services were running. > Other than seeing some passwords missing in my mysql database I don't > know what else was done. You may wish to peruse the following URL; __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:33:47 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:33:47 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> > If I were > you're hosting company I'd pull the plug on the machine. I'm glad you're not my hosting company! :-) Like I said earlier, I've got an admin request in to reformat the drive and upgrade the OS at the same time. I agree with the dire threats uttered in this thread, unpleasant though they are to hear them. The thought that I can't trust the output of netstat or anything else is really scary... Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:44:48 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:44:48 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BD01F0.3010005@yahoo.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: >> If I were >> you're hosting company I'd pull the plug on the machine. > > I'm glad you're not my hosting company! :-) It's irresponsible to leave a cracked machine on the Internet ! That's why a responsible hosting company would take this action. I wouldn't want to use a hosting company that didn't insist on that course of action -- I'm quite serious. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:45:01 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:45:01 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So who is responsible for patching said server? You? Or your generic server hosting company? (They sound like the $20 a month random desktop hosting company. Ugh.) On the topic of rootkits, they've been pretty advanced for years now. I'm talking about something that loads itself as a Kernel module, then overwrites certain sections of the running Kernel so that the system calls made by "lsmod", "ps", "ls", "dir", et al., are all intercepted and modified as needed. Usually, they also provide CLI command hooks to be able to dynamically hide/unhide processes, files, etc. The only way to detect them is to power off, mount the filesystems from another box, and see if there's anything left behind. Nowadays, we're headed into the Brave New World(tm) of virtualizing rootkits - though, thankfully, Windows is the first to get hit with those. I miss the old days of having different platforms available. (Think DEC Alpha.) Security through binary incompatibility! -- Vlad On 7/18/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > If I were > > you're hosting company I'd pull the plug on the machine. > > I'm glad you're not my hosting company! :-) > > Like I said earlier, I've got an admin request in to reformat the > drive and upgrade the OS at the same time. I agree with the dire > threats uttered in this thread, unpleasant though they are to hear > them. The thought that I can't trust the output of netstat or anything > else is really scary... > > Cheers, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 15:54:43 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:54:43 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aaron, Sorry to be so harsh, but reality bites. As long as you are rebuilding here's some constructive advice only allow ssh login do not allow root to ssh in do not allow su remotely only allow sudo do not allow passwords remotely, use public keys further restrict what sudo can do Dave On 18-Jul-06, at 11:33 AM, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> If I were >> you're hosting company I'd pull the plug on the machine. > > I'm glad you're not my hosting company! :-) > > Like I said earlier, I've got an admin request in to reformat the > drive and upgrade the OS at the same time. I agree with the dire > threats uttered in this thread, unpleasant though they are to hear > them. The thought that I can't trust the output of netstat or anything > else is really scary... > > Cheers, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 16:05:16 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:05:16 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <44BD01F0.3010005-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> <44BD01F0.3010005@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200607181205.16451.softquake@gmail.com> On Tuesday 18 July 2006 11:44, Stephen Allen wrote: > It's irresponsible to leave a cracked machine on the Internet ! Who cares so much. But in principle, I agree. It is one of these things that new Linux users should learn: a responsible use of their computers. This is the most basic security rule, simple, and still not rather treated seriously enough as it should be. It is a serious problem that should be treated seriously. MUST reinstall. :) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 16:07:07 2006 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:07:07 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44BC1597.2070209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44BC1597.2070209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44BE58AB.1060606@visible-assets.com> I just moved house right down the street from the Linuxcaffe (of course that reeeeaaally didn't have a lot to do with my decision) and I think that the linux in the park event would be a great idea. Dave and I have even spoken about putting together a projector 'a la LumenLab' (http://lumenlab.com) for a movie screening at night. Linux in the park might be another excuse for some interesting Linux-related showcases of all sorts of cool devices. ~/Chris James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of >> Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the >> Park event in August. >> >> The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some >> Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a >> park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and >> Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the >> following: >> >> - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). >> - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to >> power several laptops). >> - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. >> >> What else should be looked at for an event like this? > > Free beer as in free software? ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 16:15:32 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:15:32 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <44BCFE76.8040005-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <44BCFE76.8040005@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990607180915r7519d695p9eda4d5a258eac4a@mail.gmail.com> On 7/18/06, Stephen Allen wrote: > You may wish to peruse the following URL; > There seems to be a typo in the article's title. It should read: How to "restore" a hacked Linux server ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 16:42:08 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:42:08 -0400 Subject: my server was cracked; now what? In-Reply-To: <200607181205.16451.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20607171126t5f863371nd7ae5d66cb50dec1@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20607180833v72864d34s357103399b6edbbe@mail.gmail.com> <44BD01F0.3010005@yahoo.ca> <200607181205.16451.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <059F0A77-8C73-46EA-894C-728118708641@visibleassets.com> On 18-Jul-06, at 12:05 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Tuesday 18 July 2006 11:44, Stephen Allen wrote: > >> It's irresponsible to leave a cracked machine on the Internet ! > > Who cares so much. The people who have servers on the same local network as the cracked server care the most > > But in principle, I agree. > > It is one of these things that new Linux users should learn: a > responsible use > of their computers. This is the most basic security rule, simple, > and still > not rather treated seriously enough as it should be. It is a > serious problem > that should be treated seriously. MUST reinstall. :) > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 18:40:45 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:40:45 -0400 Subject: DB2 and HA-Linux Message-ID: <20060718184045.GD884@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Has anyone clustered DB2 using HA-Linux, version 2? All the papers I find reference HA-Linux version 1. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 8 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 21:44:30 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:44:30 -0400 Subject: need some licencing advice In-Reply-To: <200607171401.04274.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200607170845.32746.ican@netrover.com> <44BBB47A.9070709@telly.org> <200607171401.04274.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607181444p40dad4ccl6a0ba77af620be96@mail.gmail.com> On 7/17/06, bob wrote: > > > > > To get the result you want, IMO, any library implementing your API > > should be LGPL'd as you've already done with your SIMPL stuff. > > I considered this but most of the code would not be in the form of a library > but rather a series of cooperating, highly extendable executable modules each > which link to the LGPL'd SIMPL library. As such I couldn't see the language > of the LGPL applying. I suppose I could rework the framework aspects of > the code so that it could be cast as a library ... but that seems a little > like the "tail wagging the dog". AFAIK, you wouldn't need to cast it as a library. Wikipedia notes that OpenOffice.org is licensed under the LGPL. The LGPL was originally intended for libraries, but it was later renamed to the Lesser GPL for a number of reasons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGPL http://www.openoffice.org/license.html http://creativecommons.org/licenses/LGPL/2.1/ http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html > What do you know about the various MPL derivatives? For myself, I know nothing about derivatives, and only the bare essentials (for my purposes - GPL/LGPL compatability) about the MPL from it's faq. http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/mpl-faq.html -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 22:13:55 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:13:55 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) Message-ID: 2006/7/15, Michael Newman : > Jason Spiro wrote: > > But MS has a lot of $ and resources, and Live will get better in the > > future. > > > > Hopefully they'll start respecting web standards better by then... > Speaking of respecting web standards, compare: > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.msn.com > > to http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com > > Yahoo/Alltheweb fail to validate as well. > > Granted, live.com blows up even worse than Google. I just think it's > interesting that they should go to the effort of doing MSN Search the > correct way. I wouldn't read much into it. I suppose different departments at MSFT care about standards different amounts. Is W3 validation important? Doesn't it only matter that a page looks good in a variety of browsers? Also, is there really a problem with creating web pages that require Javascript for a good reason, like GNU's GPLv3 comment interface did? -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 22:16:15 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:16:15 -0400 Subject: Should I keep my $HOME in CVS? Message-ID: Hi all, Should I keep my home directory (or at least certain subdirectories of it) in version control? Perhaps I could figure out a way to keep certain file types only, or only small directories, in VC, or I could set up automatic aging-out for old large files. But, would the effort be worth it? Thanks in advance, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 22:52:38 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:52:38 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607181552h568c4b2dh6db4262873cd0d01@mail.gmail.com> On 7/18/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > Is W3 validation important? Doesn't it only matter that a page looks > good in a variety of browsers? IMO, this depends on what the HTML document's goals are but generally speaking, the more browsers supported the better. Mandatory http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ reference. ;-) > Also, is there really a problem with creating web pages that require > Javascript for a good reason, like GNU's GPLv3 comment interface did? If there's good reason for JS (like Atomic OS) then so be it. By their very nature, standards will always lag behind innovation and new developments. Web software should, I think, try to degrade as gracefully as possible in unsupported browsers though. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 22:55:44 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:55:44 -0400 Subject: Should I keep my $HOME in CVS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060718225544.GA5970@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> There are advantages to that. I keep my .rc files in version control. I use Subversion. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/01/06/svn_homedir.html http://technocrat.watson-wilson.ca/blosxom/computer/svn.html -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 9 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 23:05:22 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:05:22 -0400 Subject: Should I keep my $HOME in CVS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/18/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > Hi all, > > Should I keep my home directory (or at least certain subdirectories of > it) in version control? Perhaps I could figure out a way to keep > certain file types only, or only small directories, in VC, or I could > set up automatic aging-out for old large files. > > But, would the effort be worth it? > > Thanks in advance, > Jason Your name starts with a "J", and the guy who is most keen on this is "Joey," so perhaps... Joey Hess used to use CVS; now uses Subversion. See also It would also be worth looking at other SCM systems; I have moved my web stuff into a Darcs repository, and have been very happy with that change (I formerly used CVS). The "downside" of Darcs is that it has a hard time scaling to extraordinary numbers of patches, but it's only ferociously patched things like Linux (e.g. - the kernel) that are trouble there... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 23:18:40 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:18:40 -0400 Subject: Does the Linux kernel make it hard for companies to make mostly-OSS drivers with small closed-source bits? (was: Tom's HW Guide) Message-ID: 2006/7/16, Evan Leibovitch : > http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/12/geforce_and_radeon_take_on_linux/ > > I've often trusted Tom's Hardware Guide for good reviews of hardware > components, especially motherboards. It was interesting to see the site > actually tackle something Linux-ish, let alone the use of Linux as a > games system. > > Those reading this list who are involved with ATI (you know who you are) > are invited to use this article to help prod the company to match and > surpass nVidia's level of support. > Excellent idea. Closed-source accelerated 3D drivers are inconvenient but they are far better than no accelerated 3D drivers at all. (As long as you don't use a Mac or BSD or a Linux kernel the drivers do not work with.) Does the Linux kernel make it hard for companies to make mostly-OSS drivers with small closed-source bits? If not, why don't we lobby ATI and Nvidia to make such a driver? Please CC me, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 23:29:57 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:29:57 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44BE58AB.1060606-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44BC1597.2070209@rogers.com> <44BE58AB.1060606@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <44BD6EF5.2040603@golden.net> Christopher Friedt wrote: > I just moved house right down the street from the Linuxcaffe (of > course that reeeeaaally didn't have a lot to do with my decision) and > I think that the linux in the park event would be a great idea. Dave > and I have even spoken about putting together a projector 'a la > LumenLab' (http://lumenlab.com) for a movie screening at night. > > Linux in the park might be another excuse for some interesting > Linux-related showcases of all sorts of cool devices. > > ~/Chris > As another Lumenlab member (I'm Mylo) and Opensource / Linux user what are the odds, movie night would make it great. Suggestion would be the Matrix or Hackers. I have all three of the M however not hackers. I'm looking for it though and not necessarily because of Angelina :-P . BTW Brain's gonna kick some when that projector is ready. I was at the 1st Linux in the park and supplied the generator. I brought my wife and kids and we had a great time. Sorry about the screwy post.... top posting messes me up ;-) What date(s) ? John > James Knott wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of >>> Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the >>> Park event in August. >>> >>> The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some >>> Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a >>> park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and >>> Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the >>> following: >>> >>> - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). >>> - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to >>> power several laptops). >>> - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. >>> What else should be looked at for an event like this? >> >> Free beer as in free software? ;-) >> -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 23:51:01 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0400 Subject: DB2 and HA-Linux In-Reply-To: <20060718184045.GD884-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060718184045.GD884@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: 2006/7/18, Neil Watson : > Has anyone clustered DB2 using HA-Linux, version 2? All the papers I > find reference HA-Linux version 1. > As I'm sure you know, best place to ask would be the relevant mailing lists, if there are any, though subscribing and filtering is annoying. :) FYI: Gmane provides an easy way to post without subscribing. http://news.gmane.org or news://news.gmane.org for the SLRN interface. Cheers, Jason -- When you open Windows, bugs get in! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 18 23:59:15 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:59:15 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BD75D3.2080704@telly.org> Jason Spiro wrote: > Is W3 validation important? Doesn't it only matter that a page looks > good in a variety of browsers? That's the whole point of standards. Rather than needing to validate against "a variety of browsers" at different revision levels, you validate against one standard. Then, you know that any standards-compliant browser will work with it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 00:04:53 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:04:53 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: <20060715013707.GU13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: 2006/7/14, Lennart Sorensen : > Without DMA burns are much more likely to fail if you don't have buffer > underrun protection enabled (cdrecord disables it by default, while > cdrdao, and growisofs and most other things enable it by default). cdrecord disables DMA by default? Why? Please CC me, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 00:46:33 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:46:33 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Jason Spiro wrote: > 2006/7/14, Lennart Sorensen : >> Without DMA burns are much more likely to fail if you don't have buffer >> underrun protection enabled (cdrecord disables it by default, while >> cdrdao, and growisofs and most other things enable it by default). > > cdrecord disables DMA by default? Why? Are you sure cdrecord disables it? Usually your hdparm.conf will have the relevant lines for your drives and burner. Does cdrecord really change the config file or is your distro not setup with dma on by default? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 01:49:43 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:49:43 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717184741.1281.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717184741.1281.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060719014943.GA3089@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 02:47:41PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- "Scott C. Ripley" wrote: > > > What else should be looked at for an event like > > this? > > > > wet penguin t-shirt contest? ;-) > > The list of local Linux fans who would look good in a > wet penguin t-shirt is very painfully short (a list > roughly the same length as the number of female Linux > fans :-) ), [ ... ] and proposals such as this are a good way to keep that list painfully short. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 02:25:06 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:25:06 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 02:32:56 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060719014943.GA3089-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060719014943.GA3089@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060719023256.50780.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Macdonald wrote: > On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 02:47:41PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > --- "Scott C. Ripley" > wrote: > > > > What else should be looked at for an event > like > > > this? > > > > > > wet penguin t-shirt contest? ;-) > > > > The list of local Linux fans who would look good > in a > > wet penguin t-shirt is very painfully short (a > list > > roughly the same length as the number of female > Linux > > fans :-) ), [ ... ] > > and proposals such as this are a good way to keep > that > list painfully short. True... Ok, how about a best computer room toy competition? I keep a small (about 3" long) metal toy canon on my computer, this way I can tell people that yes I really am under the gun.... :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 03:12:46 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:12:46 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I think he meant that cdrecord disables buffer underrun protection by default. Brandon On Jul 18, 2006, at 8:46 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Jason Spiro wrote: >> 2006/7/14, Lennart Sorensen : >>> Without DMA burns are much more likely to fail if you don't have >>> buffer >>> underrun protection enabled (cdrecord disables it by default, while >>> cdrdao, and growisofs and most other things enable it by default). >> cdrecord disables DMA by default? Why? > > Are you sure cdrecord disables it? Usually your hdparm.conf will > have the relevant lines for your drives and burner. Does cdrecord > really change the config file or is your distro not setup with dma > on by default? > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 03:15:41 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:15:41 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: <44BD9802.3000101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hey, don't disrespect my coffee. ; ) Brandon On Jul 18, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Byron Sonne wrote: > Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 03:22:35 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:22:35 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: <44BD9802.3000101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/18/06, Byron Sonne wrote: > Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) I like javascript... at least it helped me to create the webpage I wanted pretty easily... works in multiple browsers... good enough for me! :-) -Steve. -- If we wonder often, the gift of knowledge will come. - Arapaho -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 03:24:18 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:24:18 -0700 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: <44BD9802.3000101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/18/06, Byron Sonne wrote: > Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) There are some folks on a certain island that would find that offensive :-). The funny part is that JavaScript bears no material relationship to Java; they are totally different sorts of languages, beyond the vague similarity that code in both languages has some aspects of syntax that might remind one of C... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 11:28:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:28:40 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44BE1768.8040206@rogers.com> Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > Hey, don't disrespect my coffee. ; ) > > Brandon > > On Jul 18, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Byron Sonne wrote: > >> Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) IBM used to have an old coffee grinder, from the 1930's IIRC, in their library at 3600 Steeles. So even back then, they were working with Java. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 13:21:05 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:21:05 -0400 Subject: Setting Memory Limit Message-ID: Hey Eeveryone, I was wondering if there is a way to limit the amount of ram a process can use. I tried ulimit in bash but didn't find the limit set with ulimit -m 1 was being honoured. Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 14:31:36 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Jobs... Message-ID: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yesterday I meet with a recruiter (aka: headhunter), who is involved in doing a mass hire for an on-line gaming site. Obviously I am very interested in getting a position with the firm in question, but there are some positions that I am not qualified for (such as DBA positions) that I would be delighted see go to other GTALug members. Anyone interested in more information e-mail an I will forward on contact details. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 16:26:24 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:26:24 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC Message-ID: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> Hi all, I decided a little while ago to start from scratch with my backup program. The old code, which I learned to code by writing (so you can imagine the horrors that lie in the source!). A benefit of this blank slate is getting a chance to re-evaluate how things are done. So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to let a perl program execute commands as root? Simple enough, no? :p My current "best idea" is to use the trusty setuid C-wrapper to call a perl script owned by root with 0500 permissions. I'd have the unprivileged web-based perl script (run from a dedicated webserver) call the setuid C-wrapper with a set of command line switches. Have those command line switches passed on the the root-owned perl script which in turn does dirty work (like un/mount devices and such). A few things I'll do: - Compile the full path to the root-owned perl script at install time. - Have the root-owned perl script only execute certain commands under certain conditions (ie: only un/mount partitions under a certain directory). - Set the C-wrapper to be owned by root: and have the permissions 4550. Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? Thanks all!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 16:48:47 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Setting Memory Limit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hey Eeveryone, > > I was wondering if there is a way to limit the amount of ram a process > can use. I tried ulimit in bash but didn't find the limit set with > ulimit -m 1 was being honoured. Hi Randy. I've used ulimit -m many times and observed it working. Could you give an example where you see the memory limit violated? What you are setting there is a 1k memory limit for the process (and each of its children). Perhaps libc is sanely ignoring values that are unrealistically small. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 17:30:30 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:30:30 +0000 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <44BE5D30.9070905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 7/19/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I decided a little while ago to start from scratch with my backup > program. The old code, which I learned to code by writing (so you can > imagine the horrors that lie in the source!). A benefit of this blank > slate is getting a chance to re-evaluate how things are done. > > So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to > let a perl program execute commands as root? > > Simple enough, no? :p > > My current "best idea" is to use the trusty setuid C-wrapper to call > a perl script owned by root with 0500 permissions. I'd have the > unprivileged web-based perl script (run from a dedicated webserver) call > the setuid C-wrapper with a set of command line switches. Have those > command line switches passed on the the root-owned perl script which in > turn does dirty work (like un/mount devices and such). > > A few things I'll do: > > - Compile the full path to the root-owned perl script at install time. > - Have the root-owned perl script only execute certain commands under > certain conditions (ie: only un/mount partitions under a certain directory). > - Set the C-wrapper to be owned by root: and have the > permissions 4550. > > Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? Look into "tainting" perl... http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/rgs/pl-suid.html "When perl is executing a setuid script, it takes special precautions to prevent you from falling into any obvious traps. (In some ways, a perl script is more secure than the corresponding C program.) Any command line argument, environment variable, or input is marked as "tainted", and may not be used, directly or indirectly, in any command that invokes a subshell, or in any command that modifies files, directories or processes. Any variable that is set within an expression that has previously referenced a tainted value also becomes tainted (even if it is logically impossible for the tainted value to influence the variable). " See also the man page "perlsec" -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 17:38:23 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:38:23 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44BE6E0F.2020709@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/19/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I decided a little while ago to start from scratch with my backup >> program. The old code, which I learned to code by writing (so you can >> imagine the horrors that lie in the source!). A benefit of this blank >> slate is getting a chance to re-evaluate how things are done. >> >> So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to >> let a perl program execute commands as root? >> >> Simple enough, no? :p >> >> My current "best idea" is to use the trusty setuid C-wrapper to call >> a perl script owned by root with 0500 permissions. I'd have the >> unprivileged web-based perl script (run from a dedicated webserver) call >> the setuid C-wrapper with a set of command line switches. Have those >> command line switches passed on the the root-owned perl script which in >> turn does dirty work (like un/mount devices and such). >> >> A few things I'll do: >> >> - Compile the full path to the root-owned perl script at install time. >> - Have the root-owned perl script only execute certain commands under >> certain conditions (ie: only un/mount partitions under a certain >> directory). >> - Set the C-wrapper to be owned by root: and have the >> permissions 4550. >> >> Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? > > Look into "tainting" perl... > > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/rgs/pl-suid.html > > "When perl is executing a setuid script, it takes special precautions > to prevent you from falling into any obvious traps. (In some ways, a > perl script is more secure than the corresponding C program.) Any > command line argument, environment variable, or input is marked as > "tainted", and may not be used, directly or indirectly, in any command > that invokes a subshell, or in any command that modifies files, > directories or processes. Any variable that is set within an > expression that has previously referenced a tainted value also becomes > tainted (even if it is logically impossible for the tainted value to > influence the variable). " > > See also the man page "perlsec" I read the perlsec page, a good article! I'm still a bit confused though on how to properly use it because my program deals with the underlying system a lot (just means I need to study). I think I'd just need to filter via regexs command line options to untaint them (make sure they are legit) but I am no so sure yet on how to untaint system calls (like mount). FWIW, I am not using setuid perl scripts. Only the C-wrapper will be setuid. :) Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 17:56:10 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:56:10 +0000 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <44BE6E0F.2020709-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <44BE6E0F.2020709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 7/19/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > FWIW, I am not using setuid perl scripts. Only the C-wrapper will be > setuid. :) It seems to me that you'd likely be better off using setuid Perl scripts, and eschewing the C wrapper. That's likely to be better protection. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 17:57:41 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:57:41 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <44BE6E0F.2020709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44BE7295.8030501@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/19/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> FWIW, I am not using setuid perl scripts. Only the C-wrapper will be >> setuid. :) > > It seems to me that you'd likely be better off using setuid Perl > scripts, and eschewing the C wrapper. That's likely to be better > protection. Can you explain why? I am sure you are probably right, but I am eternally curious. :) Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 18:01:38 2006 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:01:38 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44BD6EF5.2040603-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44BC1597.2070209@rogers.com> <44BE58AB.1060606@visible-assets.com> <44BD6EF5.2040603@golden.net> Message-ID: <44BE7382.1020305@visible-assets.com> John, Do you have a project a la lumenlabs ? If so, would you be willing to bring it out to another linux in the park movie night? That way Dave Patrick and myself would be able to see how well it works and get a feel of how to put one together. Cheers, ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 18:30:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:30:18 -0400 Subject: CDRW: cdrecord: No disk / Wrong disk! In-Reply-To: References: <20060712012324.GA8134@waltdnes.org> <200607131620.33136.softquake@gmail.com> <20060714160220.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607141828.45728.softquake@gmail.com> <20060715013707.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060719183018.GX13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 08:04:53PM -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > cdrecord disables DMA by default? Why? No it doesn't. It may claim DMA is not enabled, but it is usually wrong. Also with most kernels, any writes that don't use block sizes of a multiple of 512bytes will not be allowed to use DMA, which means burning audio or video CDs will happen without DMA on most kernels. data CDs and DVDs always use 2048byte blocks and hence get to use DMA, no matter what Jorg may claim in cdrecord. :) cdrecord does disable buffer underrun protection by default because Jorg says it makes less compatible CDs and that all good operating systems don't need it, whatever that means. To enable it, if your computer is a bit slow for the speed you are writing at, add the cdrecord option 'driveropts=burnproof' (I think that is the correct syntax). Or you can just reduce the write speed to work around problems or get a faster computer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 18:31:50 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:31:50 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <44BE5D30.9070905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060719183150.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 12:26:24PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I decided a little while ago to start from scratch with my backup > program. The old code, which I learned to code by writing (so you can > imagine the horrors that lie in the source!). A benefit of this blank > slate is getting a chance to re-evaluate how things are done. > > So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to > let a perl program execute commands as root? > > Simple enough, no? :p > > My current "best idea" is to use the trusty setuid C-wrapper to call > a perl script owned by root with 0500 permissions. I'd have the > unprivileged web-based perl script (run from a dedicated webserver) call > the setuid C-wrapper with a set of command line switches. Have those > command line switches passed on the the root-owned perl script which in > turn does dirty work (like un/mount devices and such). > > A few things I'll do: > > - Compile the full path to the root-owned perl script at install time. > - Have the root-owned perl script only execute certain commands under > certain conditions (ie: only un/mount partitions under a certain directory). > - Set the C-wrapper to be owned by root: and have the > permissions 4550. > > Comments? Suggestions? Problems? Possible weaknesses? > > Thanks all!! There is suidperl, which has a lot of restrictions on the perl code to try and protect the system. I think it runs with strict and taint on at all times. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 19:13:30 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jul 2006, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On 7/18/06, Byron Sonne wrote: >> Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) > > I like javascript... at least it helped me to create the webpage I > wanted pretty easily... works in multiple browsers... good enough for > me! :-) It doesn't do any good if the viewer has Javascript turned off. 90% of the Javascript I see on the web is totally unnecessary. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 19:18:31 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:18:31 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060719191831.GB23124@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> >>On 7/18/06, Byron Sonne wrote: >>> Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) >> >>I like javascript... at least it helped me to create the webpage I >>wanted pretty easily... works in multiple browsers... good enough for >>me! :-) Shouldn't a website be about what the viewer wants. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 9 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 20:48:07 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:48:07 -0400 Subject: Perl Mason person for peer review Message-ID: <1153342087.3725.4.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> I'm writing a new book on Perl and it includes a chapter on Mason. I'm looking for someone who has used Mason to do a peer review of the chapter, to verify the examples and technical information. If you'd be able to help, please email me. Ken B. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 20:58:15 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:58:15 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607191358t33104c46yb2bbd63dd9e37d2b@mail.gmail.com> On 7/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: [...] > The funny part is that JavaScript bears no material relationship to > Java; they are totally different sorts of languages, beyond the vague > similarity that code in both languages has some aspects of syntax that > might remind one of C... Also very similar to Perl. Close enough that I'm tinkering with the idea of writing a JIT perl->js translator/interpreter in/with/for Atomic OS - hopefully with the help of a Perl Foundation grant. I haven't tried it yet, but JSAN (http://www.openjsan.org/) is an attempt to give JavaScript programmers a CPAN-like tool. -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 21:50:47 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:50:47 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: <20060719143136.68182.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> On July 19, 2006 10:31 am, Colin McGregor wrote: > Yesterday I meet with a recruiter (aka: headhunter), > who is involved in doing a mass hire for an on-line > gaming site. Obviously I am very interested in getting > a position with the firm in question, but there are > some positions that I am not qualified for (such as > DBA positions) that I would be delighted see go to > other GTALug members. Anyone interested in more > information e-mail an I will forward on contact > details. > > Colin McGregor Hi Colin, for survey purposes, out of curiosity, what is hot out there? For example, I met with a CISCO trainer from the Ottawa region and he is saying that networking is a passport to a job there. What about the GTA? Is there enough employment offers in programming to cope with job researchers, and what is the expected level/knowledge? Thanks marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 22:00:15 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:00:15 -0400 Subject: Perl Mason person for peer review In-Reply-To: <20060719210957.GB11669-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1153342087.3725.4.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <20060719210957.GB11669@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1153346415.28430.16.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 17:09 -0400, Rick Delaney wrote: > On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 04:48:07PM -0400, Ken Burtch wrote: > > I'm writing a new book on Perl and it includes a chapter on Mason. I'm > > looking for someone who has used Mason to do a peer review of the > > chapter, to verify the examples and technical information. If you'd be > > able to help, please email me. > Send me what you have when you have it. : host smtp.easydns.com[205.210.42.52] said: 550 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table (in reply to RCPT TO command) Do you have another email address? KB -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 22:46:03 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:46:03 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: <200607191750.47891.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: Depends on the field, I suppose. I know of several places that would instantly hire people with good networking skills (Cisco routing and switching), firewalling (PIX and *nix-based solutions), as well as *nix skills. Pretty good compensation, too, but shift-based. Getting into office-hours positions doing the same thing basically requires that you do the shift-based thing for a while* first. The value of "while" is anywhere from months to years. As for DBA or programming positions, those are much more the Senior level, with ridiculous amounts of experience. Whereas the networking ones I've described, you can get away with sheer skill and knowledge, as opposed to years of experience - though that helps, too. I'd say that there's more NOC-type positions than professional ones. Then again, a fair amount of professional ones are filled internally only. Of course, if you're at the JNCIE level, you've already got a six-figure job, and this is an academic exercise. ;) -- Vlad On 7/19/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi Colin, > > for survey purposes, out of curiosity, what is hot out there? > > For example, I met with a CISCO trainer from the Ottawa region and he is > saying that networking is a passport to a job there. What about the GTA? > Is there enough employment offers in programming to cope with job researchers, > and what is the expected level/knowledge? > > Thanks > > marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 23:47:44 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:47:44 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/19/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jul 2006, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > On 7/18/06, Byron Sonne wrote: > >> Anything with the word 'java' in it is bad ;) > > > > I like javascript... at least it helped me to create the webpage I > > wanted pretty easily... works in multiple browsers... good enough for > > me! :-) > > It doesn't do any good if the viewer has Javascript turned off. > > 90% of the Javascript I see on the web is totally unnecessary. > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson My webpage is for a sport pool... so my javascript merely does all the calculations after each event updating scores, so I don't have to manually calculate and enter updated numbers everywhere. I really like javascript for this reason. Works like a spreadsheet. Like any tool, it can be used for good or used for bad, I guess! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 00:37:46 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:37:46 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: <200607191750.47891.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <01BAF212-2C65-4271-8F71-9507B2E9A654@visibleassets.com> Well, I can tell you for one postgresql "experts" are in hot demand. Postgresql is moving into the enterprise and demand for experts, and support is increasing. Dave On 19-Jul-06, at 5:50 PM, Marc Lijour wrote: > On July 19, 2006 10:31 am, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Yesterday I meet with a recruiter (aka: headhunter), >> who is involved in doing a mass hire for an on-line >> gaming site. Obviously I am very interested in getting >> a position with the firm in question, but there are >> some positions that I am not qualified for (such as >> DBA positions) that I would be delighted see go to >> other GTALug members. Anyone interested in more >> information e-mail an I will forward on contact >> details. >> >> Colin McGregor > > Hi Colin, > > for survey purposes, out of curiosity, what is hot out there? > > For example, I met with a CISCO trainer from the Ottawa region and > he is > saying that networking is a passport to a job there. What about the > GTA? > Is there enough employment offers in programming to cope with job > researchers, > and what is the expected level/knowledge? > > Thanks > > marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 19 21:02:26 2006 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:02:26 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <44BE6E0F.2020709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060719210226.GA11669@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:56:10PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/19/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > >FWIW, I am not using setuid perl scripts. Only the C-wrapper will be > >setuid. :) > > It seems to me that you'd likely be better off using setuid Perl > scripts, and eschewing the C wrapper. That's likely to be better > protection. This is exactly backwards. Setuid scripts are often not secure from the start, and last I looked they're disabled on Linux because of that. A C wrapper is much better. suidperl may be ok but it has had security holes before and may again. The Perl developers don't even stand behind it. Anyway, you're much better off using sudo to control access to commands. You should definitely run the perl script with tainting enabled to help prevent you from passing bad args to the sudo commands. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 05:44:49 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Vlad wrote: > I know of several places that would instantly hire people with > good networking skills (Cisco routing and switching), firewalling (PIX Do you mean Cisco specific experience or an understanding of networking theory? In my experience a lot of people are lacking a good theoretical understanding of networking. Having this under your belt helps a lot when dealing with complex networks. Examples of the network theory I'm talking about: - Be able to work with CIDR in your sleep - Understand what a netmask is and what happens if it is wrong - Understand broadcast, unicast, multicast and anycast. - Be at least comfortable with IPv6 concepts > and *nix-based solutions), as well as *nix skills. Pretty good I think Linux skills are more in demand than they have ever been before. IMHO there has been a shift from big iron *nix skills towards Linux. > As for DBA or programming positions, those are much more the > Senior level, with ridiculous amounts of experience. Whereas the Good sysadmins tend to make average developers (and vice versa). In my experience sysadmins mostly stay sysadmins and developers mostly stay developers. Sysadmins are often drafted in as DBAs. Thus many people are recruited right out of university to do development. People get recruited right out of university to be junior sysadmins too. I'm talking generally across the industry here. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 06:55:02 2006 From: akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:55:02 +0400 Subject: [OT] Calling colin... Message-ID: Hi colin...have missed out on your email ID. Wanted to touch base about the headhunter you mentioned. A __________________________________________________ Message sent using Acme Automation Webmail Service -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 12:59:49 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:59:49 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44BE7382.1020305-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44BC1597.2070209@rogers.com> <44BE58AB.1060606@visible-assets.com> <44BD6EF5.2040603@golden.net> <44BE7382.1020305@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <44BF7E45.5080603@golden.net> Christopher Friedt wrote: > John, > > Do you have a project a la lumenlabs ? If so, would you be willing to > bring it out to another linux in the park movie night? That way Dave > Patrick and myself would be able to see how well it works and get a > feel of how to put one together. > > Cheers, > > ~/Chris > Sorry at best it's a work in progress and I'm more likely going to buy the unit Brain is importing. Primary project is basement reno right now :-P John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 13:03:30 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:03:30 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0607191358t33104c46yb2bbd63dd9e37d2b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0607191358t33104c46yb2bbd63dd9e37d2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BF7F22.8050702@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 7/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > [...] >> The funny part is that JavaScript bears no material relationship to >> Java; they are totally different sorts of languages, beyond the vague >> similarity that code in both languages has some aspects of syntax that >> might remind one of C... > > Also very similar to Perl. Close enough that I'm tinkering with the > idea of writing a JIT perl->js translator/interpreter in/with/for > Atomic OS - hopefully with the help of a Perl Foundation grant. > > I haven't tried it yet, but JSAN (http://www.openjsan.org/) is an > attempt to give JavaScript programmers a CPAN-like tool. > Are you familiar with the Perl 6 development and Parrot? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 13:14:44 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:14:44 -0400 Subject: Perl security question/RFC In-Reply-To: <20060719210226.GA11669-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <44BE5D30.9070905@alteeve.com> <44BE6E0F.2020709@alteeve.com> <20060719210226.GA11669@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44BF81C4.40907@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly asked: > So then, my question is, what is the most secure, *reasonable* way to let a > perl program execute commands as root? Rick Delaney wrote: > Anyway, you're much better off using sudo to control access to commands. You > should definitely run the perl script with tainting enabled to help prevent > you from passing bad args to the sudo commands. > So the most reasonable way to perl execute commands as root is for root to run perl. Thus the need for sudo. This is the way Mac OS X does it. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 14:09:59 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:09:59 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 7/20/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Vlad wrote: > > > I know of several places that would instantly hire people with > > good networking skills (Cisco routing and switching), firewalling (PIX > > Do you mean Cisco specific experience or an understanding of networking > theory? "Yes." > In my experience a lot of people are lacking a good theoretical > understanding of networking. Having this under your belt helps a lot when > dealing with complex networks. Examples of the network theory I'm talking > about: Quite true, quite true. Same can be said about "thinking outside of the box", or "being on top of an issue", as it were. > - Be able to work with CIDR in your sleep > - Understand what a netmask is and what happens if it is wrong > - Understand broadcast, unicast, multicast and anycast. > - Be at least comfortable with IPv6 concepts I'd consider those as mere building blocks, with a strong emphasis being placed on routing (think BGP, OSPF, some MPLS, the odd IS-IS implementation), and switching (think Cat6k and knowing CEF well enough that you deal with its routing loops like it's your morning coffee). > > and *nix-based solutions), as well as *nix skills. Pretty good > > I think Linux skills are more in demand than they have ever been before. > IMHO there has been a shift from big iron *nix skills towards Linux. Quite true again. For the most part, I'm pretty "Enh." about that. First, because it opens up the market to a lot more people that know Linux or BSD, but not UNIX. This has a tendency to lower the pay brackets, as there's so many C.S. students with Linux knowledge and a degree, that are willing to work themselves to death for 40k a year. Second, there are a fair amount of apps that I'd much rather run on UNIX, than on Linux. For example, NetBackup on Solaris is great (if you can afford the hardware). On Linux, not so much. Or, say, NNM/OVO on HP-UX (11i). Just because something is cheap, or free, and it mostly "works", doesn't mean that it should be used. Unfortunately, only the people that have to put out the fires know and understand that. > > As for DBA or programming positions, those are much more the > > Senior level, with ridiculous amounts of experience. Whereas the > > Good sysadmins tend to make average developers (and vice versa). In my > experience sysadmins mostly stay sysadmins and developers mostly stay > developers. Sysadmins are often drafted in as DBAs. True, I would say. A good sysadmin will know how an app is made, how it'll talk over the network, and so forth. Ditto for a good firewall and network admin. Just like a good developer should have intermediate sysadmin skills, and be able to fix their own environment for themselves. I don't really have much to say about the DBA bit. I can see how a sysadmin would make a good DBA, and, thinking back to the old job, most of the sysadmins had decent to good DBA knowledge/skills. > Thus many people are recruited right out of university to do development. > People get recruited right out of university to be junior sysadmins too. Call me cynical, but I think that's just because they're young, naive, and will work for the proverbial carrot-on-a-stick, whereas a seasoned developer/DBA/sysadmin will just laugh. Then get replaced with someone being paid half as much, and that will, eventually, learn enough to keep things slowly chugging along - or it'll be a big disaster, for which management will never be held accountable. > I'm talking generally across the industry here. Likewise. > Cheers, > > Rob Cheers, -- Vlad > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. > > If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider > mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding > as quickly as possible. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 16:13:05 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:13:05 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Google Earth Message-ID: Hi all, I just got Google Earth for Linux and it works fine with the exception of some small quirks in the left sidebar menu flow. However it is slow (as they said). What would be a good set of tips on how to set up the software so it is usable on slow machines. I tried to make all the 'fly' options fast and all the other options slow. This should give 'step'-like movements and somewhat higher speed. Any more ideas ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 15:53:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:53:20 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <44BFA6F0.7010805@telly.org> Vlad wrote: >> I think Linux skills are more in demand than they have ever been before. >> IMHO there has been a shift from big iron *nix skills towards Linux. > > > Quite true again. For the most part, I'm pretty "Enh." about that. > > First, because it opens up the market to a lot more people that know > Linux or BSD, but not UNIX. That's a much finer line than I think most people would draw, especially making a distinction between "BSD" and "Unix". Now really -- if someone is skilled at BSD, is AIX or Solaris really that big a leap from the sysadmin POV? The tools are a little different but the underlying principles, and the troubleshooting skills necessary to excel at being a sysadmin on any of these platforms, are simply not that different. Also consider that many of the components of modern Unix are lifted from the BSD and open source world. Take the BSD out of Unix and you lose even 'vi'. The main sysadmin differences would be in kernel-specific issues such as hardware support, yet now -- especially give the maturity of commercial Unix -- the troubleshooting of hardware rarely traces down to a driver problem. > This has a tendency to lower the pay brackets, as there's so many C.S. > students with Linux knowledge and a degree, that are willing to work > themselves to death for 40k a year. And _here_ we find the crux of the problem, not from the difference between Unix and Linux but rather simple supply-side economics. The growth of Linux and BSD have made the Unix world far less elitist than it used to be (or wants to be), and the old guard -- who may arguably been overpaid because of the scarcity of good Unix admins -- are feeling the change. The fact is that in society there are a lot of people in every field who are willing to work themselves to death for 40K. Arguably the Unix world has been shielded from such realities because of its inaccessibility from most of the IT world. Until the commercial viability of Linux of just the last few years, IT users were torn with a choice of crap (and relatively cheap) systems software on commodity hardware, or good expensive systems software on overpriced RISCs and mainframe boxes -- or SCO. Was Windows NT ever as good as the worst Unix of its day? Nowhere near. But it was Good Enough for many in IT, and Microsoft was able to take full advantage of the feuding between Unix vendors that prevented any kind of alternative standard. They were extremely successful at advancing Wintel versus Unix/RISC. It wasn't as good but it was Good Enough. Now folks have the relatively new option of inexpensive good-quality software on commodity hardware, leading to the growth of Linux despite the opposition of every proprietary software vendor and VAR out there (which is most of them). This accomplishment cannot be overstated. But along with this success has come along with the staggering loss of elitism of the Unix world. The best example of this has been the complete inability of Usenix and SAGE to appeal to Linux admins, despite the best efforts of Jon Maddog Hall who is on the Usenix board. Arguably Usenix should be experiencing its best growth ever, but its scorn for the "Linux hordes" has excluded it from relevance. > Second, there are a fair amount of apps that I'd much rather run on > UNIX, than on Linux. The number of apps that run on Unix-but-not-Linux is shrinking daily. Given that Linux is already more popular than Unix in IT environments, vendors who haven't ported their Unix apps to Linux are just dumb and/or have other agendas (such as propping up certain Unix flavours). > Just because something is cheap, or free, and it mostly "works", > doesn't mean that it should be used. I'm sorry, but that statement just reeks of elitism and has no relevance in today's world, and I'm not just talking IT. In every field there are elite products that purists love and the rich/enthusiasts can afford. Sometimes, but rarely, the elite product is the most cost-effective solution to a need. The rest of us generally choose products that by comparison are "cheap and mostly work", that dramatically outsells the elite stuff. Anyone who buys PC-brand food, takes generic drugs, flies US-based airlines, watches analog, broadcast TV, drinks tap water or drives a Suzuki knows that. Why should IT be any different? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 15:59:54 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CUPS problem on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <44BC3F4D.7000106-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44BC3F4D.7000106@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20060720155954.10085.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I installed Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake) as a server and as a workstation. I installed cupsys on both and tried to install a JetDirect printer with lpadmin on both. The command line I used is identical and checking the printer.conf file proves that it is so. However, I was able to print from the workstation the server simply queues the request and does not print it. lpstat shows the job queued but lprm says there is no active jobs on the printer. Any idea? TIA EK __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 16:09:53 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. Message-ID: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, UU and the Toronto Free-Net. This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. This of course means a challenge, the machines need to be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) install and get pushed out the door to people who could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines need to be gone from where they are now by September 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto Free-Net? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 16:46:04 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:46:04 -0400 Subject: Jobs... In-Reply-To: <44BFA6F0.7010805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200607191750.47891.marc@lijour.net> <44BFA6F0.7010805@telly.org> Message-ID: On 7/20/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Vlad wrote: > [snip] > > > Just because something is cheap, or free, and it mostly "works", > > doesn't mean that it should be used. > > I'm sorry, but that statement just reeks of elitism and has no relevance > in today's world, and I'm not just talking IT. In every field there are > elite products that purists love and the rich/enthusiasts can afford. > Sometimes, but rarely, the elite product is the most cost-effective > solution to a need. The rest of us generally choose products that by > comparison are "cheap and mostly work", that dramatically outsells the > elite stuff. Anyone who buys PC-brand food, takes generic drugs, flies > US-based airlines, watches analog, broadcast TV, drinks tap water or > drives a Suzuki knows that. Why should IT be any different? Perhaps I should expand my point a bit more (though I do admit that it is elitist). Most of my gripes with Linux people (management, clients) wanting it to do more than it is currently designed to do. I'll try and avoid the mid-tier gray area, and stick to the higher end, such as high-end SMP, clustering, HA, et al. I've found that certain businesses take Linux to be their holy grail, and order their denizens to just "make it work". Which, usually, means a hack on top of a hack, to just get it out the door working. There's lots of good software, even for the enterprise. But not so much that's "great" or "excellent". I'll argue that there's a lot more elitism coming from Linus about keeping everything GPL Open Sourced and deliberately breaking Kernel internals to irritate Closed Source driver developers, than in my statement. This isn't just about the regular changes to tick off nVidia. I mean having to spend weeks troubleshooting NetBackup's SCSI tape device interaction on 2.6 Kernels. Or a craptastic 2.6 (earlier 2.6 versions) scheduler. This has now been fixed, but random overhauls in a stable branch are not so good. (RedHat & Co. have to devote many resources to keeping a "stable" and consistent Kernel tree for their distros; it's a Herculean effort, really.) I want a -Server Kernel tree, and a -User Kernel tree. Not Kernel 2.6.9-34.ELsmp-I_lost_track_of_my_rebuilds_to_make_it_work. I'll take the Sun guarantee that Solaris 8 binaries will run without any changes needed, or with new behavioural side-effects, on Solaris 9, 10, etc. That can't be said about 2.4 to 2.6, or even in between 2.4/2.4, or 2.6/2.6. (Think the MM overhaul in 2.4.9(?), and the scheduler changes in 2.6.something.) Just my two cents. And a rant because management in some places I've been Just Wants It To Be Free(tm), and for their staff to Just Make It Work(tm). As a side note, there's also some hilarity in Linux-land with high-uptime and application interactions. For example, sar breaks on RHEL4 after 147 days or somesuch. Just completely breaks, stops logging, and reverses the idle/usage fields. There's other applications that can't go above 300something days, and just die hard. It's amusing to work in a place where most Linux boxes get 300-500 days of uptime. I miss Solaris. > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 16:58:04 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:58:04 -0400 Subject: C question Message-ID: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Hi all, As something of a follow-up to my last question, I need some C help (a language I am quite 'n00by' in :p ). What I want to do is, I think, simple. Take a set of command line options and use them when calling a perl script. From the ANSI C book I have gotten to the point where I can print the commands to STDOUT but I can't figure out how to put them into a variable. I know 'char' is for one byte, but don't know what type to use for a full string or how to concatenate the switches into the string. Here's what I've got so far (probably broken from playing with it): #include #define REAL_PATH "/home/digimer/projects/mizu-bu/releases/mizu-bu/cgi-bin/exec-priv.pl" main(int argc, char *argv[]) { setuid(geteuid()); setgid(getegid()); var say; say="Hello"; int i; for (i=1; i References: <20060719143136.68182.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44BFA6F0.7010805@telly.org> Message-ID: <200607201300.09265.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 20 July 2006 11:53, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Now really -- if someone is skilled at BSD, is AIX or Solaris really > that big a leap from the sysadmin POV? The tools are a little different > but the underlying principles, and the troubleshooting skills necessary > to excel at being a sysadmin on any of these platforms, are simply not > that different. Exactly. If one however attempts to get job from an agency - they usually do not understand things and mostly will still ask for experience on this or that platform. No chance rather. The analogy is even much broader. I as a physicist, with PhD, could esiey adopt to various engineering works. But still I had a lot of troubles to get even any job. Literarely any, because its hard to get a job when they may consider one overqualified. And, actually, what is important, to perform well at work, is the ability (I mean the kinds of works we are talking about) to learn new stuff, to be creative, to be able to do research and take control of the work aims, to plan properly the work. The good knowledgee of particular computer system, this or that programming language, is in fact of lesser importance. I am impressed by my present boss. There are no many people around like him. He just told me: this is the aim of your work. Do it yourself! Do it in your own way. Learn if you need. Study, research. Whatever. He took advantage of the fact that I am able to learn and research, to be creative. But he is himself creative - thats why. People who are not creative, and most are not, could not understand that approach. zb. > > - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 17:27:48 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:27:48 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? In-Reply-To: <44BF7F22.8050702-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0607191358t33104c46yb2bbd63dd9e37d2b@mail.gmail.com> <44BF7F22.8050702@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607201027q2e9cd576id4158e8b34ea6c4e@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > On 7/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > [...] > >> The funny part is that JavaScript bears no material relationship to > >> Java; they are totally different sorts of languages, beyond the vague > >> similarity that code in both languages has some aspects of syntax that > >> might remind one of C... > > > > Also very similar to Perl. Close enough that I'm tinkering with the > > idea of writing a JIT perl->js translator/interpreter in/with/for > > Atomic OS - hopefully with the help of a Perl Foundation grant. [...] > > Are you familiar with the Perl 6 development and Parrot? Familiar, but not overly so - I think I've got the basics down anyway. In the long-term, and if browsers don't include Parrot (or compatable VM; Mozilla seems to have at least thought about it), that might be the direction to go. For now though, a small JIT converter would be much easier to get working. If Atomic Perl (working name) pulls the trick off for a few months and intrigues perl developers, then maybe (hopefully even!) they'd be willing to help out on a Perl 6 VM for Atomic OS. -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 17:52:41 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:52:41 -0400 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <44BFB61C.1070101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44BFC2E9.9010908@uoguelph.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > As something of a follow-up to my last question, I need some C help (a > language I am quite 'n00by' in :p ). > > What I want to do is, I think, simple. Take a set of command line > options and use them when calling a perl script. From the ANSI C book I > have gotten to the point where I can print the commands to STDOUT but I > can't figure out how to put them into a variable. I know 'char' is for > one byte, but don't know what type to use for a full string or how to > concatenate the switches into the string. > > Here's what I've got so far (probably broken from playing with it): > > #include > > #define REAL_PATH > "/home/digimer/projects/mizu-bu/releases/mizu-bu/cgi-bin/exec-priv.pl" > main(int argc, char *argv[]) > { > setuid(geteuid()); > setgid(getegid()); > var say; > say="Hello"; > > int i; > for (i=1; i { > printf("%s%s", argv[i], (i < argc-1) ? " " : ""); > } > printf("\n"); > printf("%s", say); > /* execv(REAL_PATH, av);*/ > } > > Thanks for any help!! > > Madison Ah, the beauty that is string manipulation in C. In C a string is an array of chars with the string variable being a pointer to the first char in the array. So, you can either allocate an array at runtime, or use malloc to create a custom size. However, there are functions to make this easier. Of particular interest to you would probably be strcat() which concatenates two strings. A quick Google came up with this which looks like a good start http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/node19.html. Finally, it is sooo important to always keep pointers in the back of your mind; it'll save you a lot of headaches. There's a lot to say about strings in C, but I guess I'll leave it at that and you can ask as you have problems. -Tom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 17:58:20 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:58:20 -0400 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <44BFB61C.1070101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: First, you use char arrays to store your strings; C has no inherent String type: char command[256]; Then, print your args or whatever into a buffer, with sprintf(): sprintf(command, "stuff", command, etc); Then, you can do something like a system() call: system(command); I haven't done C in a long, long, long time. Concordantly, YMMV. :) -- Vlad On 7/20/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > As something of a follow-up to my last question, I need some C help > (a language I am quite 'n00by' in :p ). > > What I want to do is, I think, simple. Take a set of command line > options and use them when calling a perl script. From the ANSI C book I > have gotten to the point where I can print the commands to STDOUT but I > can't figure out how to put them into a variable. I know 'char' is for > one byte, but don't know what type to use for a full string or how to > concatenate the switches into the string. > > Here's what I've got so far (probably broken from playing with it): > > #include > > #define REAL_PATH > "/home/digimer/projects/mizu-bu/releases/mizu-bu/cgi-bin/exec-priv.pl" > main(int argc, char *argv[]) > { > setuid(geteuid()); > setgid(getegid()); > var say; > say="Hello"; > > int i; > for (i=1; i { > printf("%s%s", argv[i], (i < argc-1) ? " " : ""); > } > printf("\n"); > printf("%s", say); > /* execv(REAL_PATH, av);*/ > } > > Thanks for any help!! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 18:07:58 2006 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, Colin. I can't help you with the tools and such but the install would be good experience. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Colin McGregor Sent: July 20, 2006 12:10 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Doing a Linux MASS install. Hi all, I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, UU and the Toronto Free-Net. This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. This of course means a challenge, the machines need to be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) install and get pushed out the door to people who could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines need to be gone from where they are now by September 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto Free-Net? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 18:15:08 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:15:08 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, you basically have two options: 1) Something like Norton Ghost Corporate, so you can multicast to a few hundred machines at once (make sure you have a great switching infrastructure), which will cost in licensing fees (or maybe get a one-time donation for that as well). 2) Something like setting up a KickStart server and having the boxes PXE boot and do an unattended KickStart install - it works pretty well. -- Vlad > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: July 20, 2006 12:10 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Doing a Linux MASS install. > > > Hi all, > > I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, > UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > > This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of > approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell > Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. > This of course means a challenge, the machines need to > be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) > install and get pushed out the door to people who > could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines > need to be gone from where they are now by September > 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > Free-Net? > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 18:33:54 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:33:54 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060720183354.GA29010@wp.magstar.net> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:09:53PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Hi all, > > I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, > UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > > This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of > approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell > Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. > This of course means a challenge, the machines need to > be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) > install and get pushed out the door to people who > could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines > need to be gone from where they are now by September > 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > Free-Net? What's the physical size of those machines? There are DOS-based ghosting solution, but I'm not comfortable blindly copying sector for sector. What I usually do is "tar stream", ie. tar -cf - > /dev/tcp/11.22.33.44/5566 nc -l -p 5566 | tar -xf - -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:39:27 2006 From: ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ralph Ellis) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:39:27 -0700 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200607201239.28067.ralphellis1@netscape.ca> On Thursday 20 July 2006 9:09 am, Colin McGregor wrote: > Hi all, > > I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, > UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > > This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of > approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell > Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. > This of course means a challenge, the machines need to > be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) > install and get pushed out the door to people who > could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines > need to be gone from where they are now by September > 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > Free-Net? > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Suse Linux has an AutoYast function that allows you to clone installs. Also Unbuntu has an alternative install CD that is targeted at doing OEM installs. http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu/linux/ubuntu-release I like Suse Linux better but you might have to use Suse 10.0 on the older hardware. I also like PC-BSD which will work on almost any old hardware, defaults to KDE and has an exceptionally easy point and click software add/install. Of the whole set, PCBSD is probably the simplest to put in. Alternatively, you could just ship them with Live CDs as long as the hard drives have been scrubbed. www.pcbsd.org I would be willing to help at a mass install. Good luck Ralph Ellis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:08:24 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:08:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You can do a 'tree' install where everything starts from a single machine and then 10 machines etherboot from it, then 10 from each of these, etc. This requires that the machines be on the same net (you can't do that anyway, there will have to be switches or routers somewhere). The easiest way to achieve this is to make an etherbootable image of, say, knoppix, and use a strict set of leases for dhcp (say 10 ip's per server). That limits the clients per server. Once a client is installed, it becomes a server itself, willing to serve 10 children. A script will get the ip of itself and generate a dhcpd config that allocates the next 10 IPs in its 'branch'. Note that I have not tried this ... but I have experience with 'restrained' dhcp to control load on a starting (small) network. The IPs go like: mother: 10.0.0.1, serves 10.0.0.10-19 child: 10.0.0.10, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.20-29 child: 10.0.0.11, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.30-39 ... the rule is: server ip x.x.x.N -> will dhcp for 10*((N-10)+1)+0..+9 this covers it to 1+10+100 = 111 hosts, and you can't have more than this on a network at the same time anyway so it should be enough. To save time, the next bunch of 100 machines replace the 'last' layer. In the end the final install (second reboot) should revert to DHCP client mode. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 18:49:26 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <44BFB61C.1070101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I think what you want is something like: #include #define REAL_PATH "/home/jvetterli/tmp/runme.pl" int main (int argc, char *argv[]) { setuid (geteuid ()); setgid (getegid ()); argv[0] = REAL_PATH; execv (REAL_PATH, argv); return 1; } Of course, if you were really after pointers for string manipulation in C, this is no help at all :) JV On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > As something of a follow-up to my last question, I need some C help (a > language I am quite 'n00by' in :p ). > > What I want to do is, I think, simple. Take a set of command line options > and use them when calling a perl script. From the ANSI C book I have gotten > to the point where I can print the commands to STDOUT but I can't figure out > how to put them into a variable. I know 'char' is for one byte, but don't > know what type to use for a full string or how to concatenate the switches > into the string. > > Here's what I've got so far (probably broken from playing with it): > > #include > > #define REAL_PATH > "/home/digimer/projects/mizu-bu/releases/mizu-bu/cgi-bin/exec-priv.pl" > main(int argc, char *argv[]) > { > setuid(geteuid()); > setgid(getegid()); > var say; > say="Hello"; > > int i; > for (i=1; i { > printf("%s%s", argv[i], (i < argc-1) ? " " : ""); > } > printf("\n"); > printf("%s", say); > /* execv(REAL_PATH, av);*/ > } > > Thanks for any help!! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 18:51:47 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:51:47 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? Message-ID: Hi All: I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:00:57 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:00:57 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: > [snip] > > The IPs go like: > > mother: 10.0.0.1, serves 10.0.0.10-19 > > child: 10.0.0.10, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.20-29 > child: 10.0.0.11, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.30-39 > ... > > the rule is: server ip x.x.x.N -> will dhcp for 10*((N-10)+1)+0..+9 > > this covers it to 1+10+100 = 111 hosts, and you can't have more than > this on a network at the same time anyway so it should be enough. Pardon? Uhm, if it's a /24, you can still have over twice that. Since you picked the "Class A" RFC1918 IP block, you can have about ~16,000,000 hosts on it, if you flatten it to 10.0.0.0/8. Better bring out that Cat6509 loaded with 48-port blades... ;) Each server merely increments the third octet until it hits 255, and then the second octet, etc. Trust me, you won't run out of IPs. > To save time, the next bunch of 100 machines replace the 'last' layer. > In the end the final install (second reboot) should revert to DHCP > client mode. > > Peter > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:14:30 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720183354.GA29010-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720183354.GA29010@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20060720191430.37957.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William Park wrote: > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:09:53PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including > GTALUG, > > UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > > > > This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation > of > > approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are > Dell > > Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. > > This of course means a challenge, the machines > need to > > be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) > > install and get pushed out the door to people who > > could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the > machines > > need to be gone from where they are now by > September > > 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard > drives, > > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools > available > > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are > friendlier > > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work > when > > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be > anyone > > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 > machines) > > Linux install some weekend in August for the > Toronto > > Free-Net? > > What's the physical size of those machines? They are low profile desktop boxes, the official specs. say the following: Low-profile chassis: Weight 10.89 kg (24 lb) Height 10.9 cm (4.3 inches) Width 40.89 cm (16.1 inches) Depth 43.69 cm (17.2 inches) > There are DOS-based ghosting solution, but I'm not > comfortable blindly > copying sector for sector. What I usually do is > "tar stream", ie. > tar -cf - > /dev/tcp/11.22.33.44/5566 > nc -l -p 5566 | tar -xf - We can NOT count on the drives all being the same size, Dell would have installed what ever hard drive they could get for the lowest price that day. Further during the time those machines were in government service no doubt some of the drives were replaced. Other issues, some of the machines have a sound card in the expansion bus, some of the machines have sound on the motherboard... So we are looking at a lot of very similar, but not identical machines... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:16:27 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:16:27 -0400 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: References: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <2DFD57AE-0D7A-4778-AB78-2D78897E1B38@tri-coder.org> On Jul 20, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Vlad wrote: > First, you use char arrays to store your strings; C has no > inherent String type: > > char command[256]; Something like glib could be used. glib has a GString type as well as a bunch of container formats. > Then, print your args or whatever into a buffer, with sprintf > (): > > sprintf(command, "stuff", command, etc); sprintf("%s%s","command","args"); The first string is a 'formatted' string (what the 'f' in sprintf stands for). The each %s is replaced by the corresponding string that is passed into the function. So "command" replaces the first %s and "args" replaces the second. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:17:15 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <44BFB61C.1070101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44BFB61C.1070101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > As something of a follow-up to my last question, I need some C help (a > language I am quite 'n00by' in :p ). > > What I want to do is, I think, simple. Take a set of command line options > and use them when calling a perl script. From the ANSI C book I have gotten > to the point where I can print the commands to STDOUT but I can't figure out > how to put them into a variable. I know 'char' is for one byte, but don't > know what type to use for a full string or how to concatenate the switches > into the string. > > Here's what I've got so far (probably broken from playing with it): > > #include > > #define REAL_PATH > "/home/digimer/projects/mizu-bu/releases/mizu-bu/cgi-bin/exec-priv.pl" > main(int argc, char *argv[]) main() always returns an int: int main(int argc, char *argv[]) > { > setuid(geteuid()); > setgid(getegid()); > var say; > say="Hello"; char *say = "hello"; /* pointer to char; string cannot be modified */ char say[] = "hello"; /* array; string can be modified: */ say[2] = x; /* change 3rd char of the string */ > > int i; > for (i=1; i { > printf("%s%s", argv[i], (i < argc-1) ? " " : ""); > } > printf("\n"); > printf("%s", say); > /* execv(REAL_PATH, av);*/ return 0; > } -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:44:48 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:44:48 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Vlad wrote: > On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: >> > [snip] >> >> The IPs go like: >> >> mother: 10.0.0.1, serves 10.0.0.10-19 >> >> child: 10.0.0.10, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.20-29 >> child: 10.0.0.11, becomes 'mother' and serves 10.0.0.30-39 >> ... >> >> the rule is: server ip x.x.x.N -> will dhcp for 10*((N-10)+1)+0..+9 >> >> this covers it to 1+10+100 = 111 hosts, and you can't have more than >> this on a network at the same time anyway so it should be enough. > > Pardon? Uhm, if it's a /24, you can still have over twice that. A single network segment won't support more than 256 hosts but 100 is about the limit ime. It would make a 100MBps segment feel like 1MBps adsl, at best. > Since you picked the "Class A" RFC1918 IP block, you can have > about ~16,000,000 hosts on it, if you flatten it to 10.0.0.0/8. Better > bring out that Cat6509 loaded with 48-port blades... ;) > Each server merely increments the third octet until it hits > 255, and then the second octet, etc. Trust me, you won't run out of > IPs. That can be done too, but as I have said, it is just a suggestion. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:22:38 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:22:38 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BFD7FE.9020202@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi All: > > I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. > > By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account > which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. > So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the > same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. I have been with http://www.canaca.com/ for about a month, with no problem at all. Plans start at 3.95, but note they charge USD which seems to be standard even for Canadian hosts. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:23:15 2006 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:23:15 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720191430.37957.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720183354.GA29010@wp.magstar.net> <20060720191430.37957.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22e435080607201223m7a3bcd44y75cf23a9feddb91@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > We can NOT count on the drives all being the same > size, Dell would have installed what ever hard drive > they could get for the lowest price that day. Further > during the time those machines were in government > service no doubt some of the drives were replaced. > Other issues, some of the machines have a sound card > in the expansion bus, some of the machines have sound > on the motherboard... So we are looking at a lot of > very similar, but not identical machines... Personally I think it is worth the effort to see how many are identical and use partimage to install them. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:33:15 2006 From: wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Tom Watts) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:33:15 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BFDA7B.2020206@uoguelph.ca> Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi All: > > I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. > > By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account > which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. > So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the > same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. > > Alex > > Before you do anything, you might want to check with your new school; I know most offer some sort of webspace with telnet/ssh access. Also, if you're a computer science major, see if there's a computer science club since sometimes such a club will have a server you can open an account on. Tom Watts wattst-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:16:34 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CUPS problem on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20060720155954.10085.qmail-XaYfPTZAAdSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <44BC3F4D.7000106@pppoe.ca> <20060720155954.10085.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19720.72.38.22.170.1153422994.squirrel@72.38.22.170> I've also been fighting with Ubuntu 6.06 and CUPS. My hunt turned up this link: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/42802 Not a whole lot of help to me but might be useful to you. Stephen > Hi all, > > I installed Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake) as a server > and as a workstation. I installed cupsys on both and > tried to install a JetDirect printer with lpadmin on > both. The command line I used is identical and > checking the printer.conf file proves that it is so. > > However, I was able to print from the workstation the > server simply queues the request and does not print > it. lpstat shows the job queued but lprm says there is > no active jobs on the printer. > > Any idea? > > TIA > EK > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 19:39:46 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:39:46 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: [snip] > > A single network segment won't support more than 256 hosts but 100 is > about the limit ime. It would make a 100MBps segment feel like 1MBps > adsl, at best. Repeat after me "This is my multicasted stream. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Multicasting is my best friend. It is my life. [...]". Ahem. I'll be quiet now. ;) > > Since you picked the "Class A" RFC1918 IP block, you can have > > about ~16,000,000 hosts on it, if you flatten it to 10.0.0.0/8. Better > > bring out that Cat6509 loaded with 48-port blades... ;) > > Each server merely increments the third octet until it hits > > 255, and then the second octet, etc. Trust me, you won't run out of > > IPs. > > That can be done too, but as I have said, it is just a suggestion. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 20:25:45 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:25:45 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10607201325k2c789c55vef04d16bd8ad4f67@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > Free-Net? Hi Colin... Providing I am in town that weekend, I am willing to help with the mass install. -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 20:33:33 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:33:33 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10607201333y38145f3l4ae02966af8926a7@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Alex Maynard wrote: > I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. > > By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account > which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. > So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the > same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. I just setup a Drupal install on Hostgator: http://biohackery.com/node/4#news Its only been about a week, but so far so good. -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 20:56:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:56:09 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060720205609.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 02:15:08PM -0400, Vlad wrote: > Well, you basically have two options: > > 1) Something like Norton Ghost Corporate, so you can multicast > to a few hundred machines at once (make sure you have a great > switching infrastructure), which will cost in licensing fees (or maybe > get a one-time donation for that as well). systemimager is free and does the same thing. > 2) Something like setting up a KickStart server and having the > boxes PXE boot and do an unattended KickStart install - it works > pretty well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 21:04:38 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:04:38 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10607201333y38145f3l4ae02966af8926a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10607201333y38145f3l4ae02966af8926a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44BFEFE6.6050605@telly.org> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I just setup a Drupal install on Hostgator: > > http://biohackery.com/node/4#news > > Its only been about a week, but so far so good. Looks nice... and thanks for the good words. Liquidesign.ca is outside Hamilton and charges $60(CDN)/year. I've hosted a few sites with them and have had no problems yet. It's a standard (but current) Cpanel/Fantastico setup. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 21:36:02 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:36:02 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Vlad wrote: > On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: > [snip] >> >> A single network segment won't support more than 256 hosts but 100 is >> about the limit ime. It would make a 100MBps segment feel like 1MBps >> adsl, at best. > > Repeat after me "This is my multicasted stream. There are many > like it, but this one is mine. Multicasting is my best friend. It is > my life. [...]". Ahem. I'll be quiet now. ;) Assuming you have the right clients and servers. I made the assumption that plain etherboot is used (as installed by default on, e.g. Knoppix). Little more than an etherboot floppy is needed to start the whole thing, from just a single Knoppix CD. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 21:13:42 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:13:42 +0000 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/20/06, Alex Maynard wrote: > I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. > > By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account > which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. > So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the > same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. I'm hosting with moonbase.info, and have been quite happy with them. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 21:52:26 2006 From: paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org (Paul van Fraassen) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:52:26 +0000 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10607201325k2c789c55vef04d16bd8ad4f67-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <61e9e2b10607201325k2c789c55vef04d16bd8ad4f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49833ce40607201452k30b64d6bv437222c596f36c1b@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > On 7/20/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > > Free-Net? > > Hi Colin... Providing I am in town that weekend, I am willing to help > with the mass install. > > -- > Daniel Wayne Armstrong > :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Hey Colin, That sounds like a lot of fun so, with a little caveat/slack for the unexpected (I've kids and a spouse who's a midwife :-) sign me up too! The talk so far has been on soft side of "How" but, I've got to ask what about the "Where" ? Do you have a place lined up with all the table-space, outlets and whatnot let alone the Ethernet hubs/switch and wire? We can probably stone-soup a lot of it but I think it's worth trying to put together a list. Also, I'm not saying it's the right tool for this but has anyone worked with cfengine? -Paul van Fraassen aka -pvf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 22:23:04 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:23:04 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C00248.9000204@pppoe.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >Hi all, > >I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, >UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > >This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of >approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell >Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. >This of course means a challenge, the machines need to >be made function, > On the same weekend as the install? >get a Linux (or other free OS) >install and get pushed out the door to people who >could use these machines :-) . > Who are the intended users? Is there a possibility that they be given a Live CD with which they can install the OS themselves? > Oh, and the machines >need to be gone from where they are now by September >1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > > The logistics (space, facilities, equipment, network, power, organization, etc...), the challenge :-) >Would there be anyone >interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) >Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto >Free-Net? > > > Tentatively, count me in. I will confirm when the weekend is chosen. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 22:52:10 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:52:10 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C0091A.3050404@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Hi all, > > I stick my nose in a LOT of things, including GTALUG, > UU and the Toronto Free-Net. > > This past week the Toronto Free-Net got a donation of > approx. 2,000 computers, about 90% of which are Dell > Optiplex GX1 machines (Pentium II, 400 MHz) boxes. > This of course means a challenge, the machines need to > be made function, get a Linux (or other free OS) > install and get pushed out the door to people who > could use these machines :-) . Oh, and the machines > need to be gone from where they are now by September > 1, 2006 (no time pressure :-) ). > > So, I gather that Ubuntu has a tool for doing mass > copy of a tailored distro. onto multiple hard drives, > has anyone tried the tool? Are these tools available > in other Linux distros (i.e.: ones that are friendlier > to KDE than Ubuntu :-) )? How well does this work when > the hard drives differ in size? Would there be anyone > interested in doing a MASS (like over 1,000 machines) > Linux install some weekend in August for the Toronto > Free-Net? I could give you a hand if you wish. SUSE has "Autoyast", for duplicating systems, though I've never tried it. If you want a KDE friendly version of Ubuntu, there's Kubuntu. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 23:53:40 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:53:40 -0500 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607201653k114e34aene46ec2259f7dd2d3@mail.gmail.com> On 7/19/06, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > It doesn't do any good if the viewer has Javascript turned off. > > 90% of the Javascript I see on the web is totally unnecessary. I'm going to agree. It's not hard to make alternatives to JavaScript. However, there are some really great tricks which can be done with it that end up being tempting enough to use.. and time consuming enough to implement that people don't have the time to think about and develop javascript alternatives. Yes, the logic does flow backwards.. javascript as a primary tool and non-javascript is the secondary alternative. Go figure. But to be honest.. if a person doesn't have JavaScript then they're fringe and most developers would consider them unimportant. On the other hand, people who have it turned off (like myself) get used to turning it back on to click navigation links etc.. =/ I don't think it's unreasonable to have JavaScript as a necessary part of a website, even without an alternative. However, I still thirst for a proper blocking tool which can block certain elements of a specific page, and intelligently allow others. At the moment I just have sitewide blocking with temporary unblocking. And in response to Neil: > Shouldn't a website be about what the viewer wants. Nope. Most websites get built from somebody's vanity. End-users are usually an afterthought. It's like saying that advertising should be about what the consumer wants. But most of the time it's about ad agencies scamming a business into funding an ad. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 23:58:58 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:58:58 -0500 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990607201658i1a1283baj55de0f3584f35bd9@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Alex Maynard wrote: > One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. You could set up such things on your home computer, but I'd recommend using a non-standard SSH port. I've heard suggestions to disallow root logins and disable passwords.. i.e. only allow a remote key. You'd also be wise to invest in a good UPS for that computer. But to be honest.. fair hosting service runs $10/mo.. and some have posted even less. I gave up on self-hosting a while back, and have been happy with my stuff floating in the sky being served from some other computer. It's also kindof neat to be able to turn my computer off. It's such a novelty. Like the one scene from 1984.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 00:08:42 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:08:42 -0500 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720160953.67456.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607201708r7e55032aifab00077fadd59fb@mail.gmail.com> Colin, how much testing do you have to perform on these boxes? Memory testing, drive testing, etc? Will you be recording all the little variations in each machine? I.e. keeping track of what is what and who gets what? I'd think that any decent distribution would let you boot from it, do a quick "best guess" repartition and install.. with very little user interaction and very basic training. A non-tech could be shown how to do it. And if the distribution requires special configuration for the video card or the like.. dump it and get a real distro. Lift the box, plug it in, pop in CD1 to do some system testing. Verify that machine. Pop in CD2 to boot a decent distro, perform a trivial install.. move on to the next box. I don't see how networking or drive cloning could be much easier. ... Pulling the hard drives out would be fairly annoying compared to just booting from a CD, even though CD-to-HD can be a bit slow. ... Networking requires some setup.. the main advantage is you could have all kinds of cool updates available on a central computer. What's the difference in speed for copying files over a network vs from a CD? ... Also, with a good liveboot distribution, you could boot from it, repartition the drive and then copy the files over without necessarily doing an "install" that requires unpacking, configuring or any thinking. I know this is what is done with PCLinuxOS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 01:28:19 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:28:19 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990607201708r7e55032aifab00077fadd59fb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e55af990607201708r7e55032aifab00077fadd59fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > Colin, how much testing do you have to perform on these boxes? Memory > testing, drive testing, etc? > > Will you be recording all the little variations in each machine? I.e. > keeping track of what is what and who gets what? > > I'd think that any decent distribution would let you boot from it, do > a quick "best guess" repartition and install.. with very little user > interaction and very basic training. A non-tech could be shown how to > do it. > > And if the distribution requires special configuration for the video > card or the like.. dump it and get a real distro. > > Lift the box, plug it in, pop in CD1 to do some system testing. > Verify that machine. Pop in CD2 to boot a decent distro, perform a > trivial install.. move on to the next box. This is exactly the type of thing that could really work to the advantage of GTAlug, and Linux in general. Think of the publicity that could be had for a install-a-thon of such magnitude, of such grueling duration, and for (potentially?) worthy cause(s). Count me in :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 02:07:12 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:07:12 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed Message-ID: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> This is the second time this has happened to me. My 80 Gig drive had the usual 3 Primary part's and the extended to the end of the disk. I have several logicals with about 30 gigs free. Yesterday I tried to create a new partition and found there was no space. The extended has changed its end point to the last created and formatted partition. The rest is now hidden. QTparted can't change the end point, is there any other way of recovering all that free space other than deleting all the logicals and changing the extended end point? If I can recreate the logicals with the same start and end cylinders, is there any chance they will still be ok? Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 02:58:07 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:58:07 -0500 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e55af990607201708r7e55032aifab00077fadd59fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990607201958h651bcb9fme9f458ab3cdc1e3@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > This is exactly the type of thing that could really work to the > advantage of GTAlug, and Linux in general. Think of the publicity that > could be had for a install-a-thon of such magnitude, of such grueling > duration, and for (potentially?) worthy cause(s). It's like a read-a-thon! Take donations based on how many installs a particular person can do in a row without taking a break. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 03:13:51 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:13:51 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990607201958h651bcb9fme9f458ab3cdc1e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e55af990607201708r7e55032aifab00077fadd59fb@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990607201958h651bcb9fme9f458ab3cdc1e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > On 7/20/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> This is exactly the type of thing that could really work to the >> advantage of GTAlug, and Linux in general. Think of the publicity that >> could be had for a install-a-thon of such magnitude, of such grueling >> duration, and for (potentially?) worthy cause(s). > > It's like a read-a-thon! Take donations based on how many installs a > particular person can do in a row without taking a break. ;) Right on. Geek machismo and feminista can only remain pent up for so long. What better way to earn your merit badge than to stay up for 48 hours on end inserting and removing the same disc, typing the same commands, over and over. There could be an award for fewest damaged install media if cd/dvd (ether or pxeboot, floppy even!) is the chosen format. That way there is room for some finessing. It could be called Tux's Techn? award or something similarly lame and geeky sounding. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 03:56:30 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:56:30 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alex, There are pros and cons to doing your own hosting. This isn't an exhaustive list, but here goes: Pros: - really easy to update web site - install anything you want (is that a pro or a con?) - no cost for hosting services Cons: - additional cost for UPS - additional time spent hardening server against a variety of attacks - additional time keeping system software and hardware up to date - risk of using production machine for development - lower uptime than professional web hosting - no redundancy for hardware or network connection - you're on the hook for 24/7 support I like paid web hosting because someone else deals with hardware upgrades, making sure the network is always up, doing system software upgrades, locking the system down, providing multiple network connections, doing backups, providing 24/7 power and plenty of bandwidth. I've used pair Networks (http://www.pair.com) as my web host for a couple of years, and I'm very happy with them. They also host Perl Monks ( http://www.perlmonks.org) and I'm grateful for that, so any business I can throw their way, terrific. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 10:25:50 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:25:50 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Huge Victory in EFF's Spying Case] Message-ID: <44C0ABAE.4050105@pppoe.ca> In view of this month's meeting, not really OT :-) Meng Cheah -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Huge Victory in EFF's Spying Case Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:16:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Electronic Frontier Foundation Reply-To: Electronic Frontier Foundation Organization: EFF To: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org EFF's Spying Case Moves Forward - Judge Denies Government's Motion to Dismiss AT&T Case In January, EFF filed a lawsuit against AT&T for collaborating with the NSA in its massive and illegal spying program. Today, a federal court denied the government's and AT&T's motions to dismiss the case, allowing EFF's suit to proceed. This is a huge step toward stopping illegal surveillance and holding AT&T accountable for these privacy violations. But it's only a first step. We need your help to finish the job and secure your rights. Please donate to EFF today and forward this message along to your friends and family. Join EFF today! http://secure.eff.org/att More info about the case: http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att To unsubscribe from all future email, paste the following URL into your browser: http://action.eff.org/site/CO?i=2we9GQzKWwVDgzi4n0yO_QF7xUhKo-oR&cid=0 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 11:19:34 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:19:34 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? Message-ID: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with Windows 2000, XP and Linux? And also where to get it. I was at Factory Direct and saw a $15 56K PCI modem (LU5600, what that means) which claimed Windows 2000, XP and Linux compatibility. Does anyone have any experience with it? My friend's daughter has an AOpen ITU/2 which works with Knoppix. She is also using Windows 2000 with which she has problems getting the modem to work. She wants to upgrade to Windows XP for which AOpen has no drivers for the ITU/2 (I've checked the website). Dialup is the only option available. Bell confirms that the only available highspeed is via satellite. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 11:38:59 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:38:59 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0B846.1010000-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with > Windows 2000, XP and Linux? > And also where to get it. > > I was at Factory Direct and saw a $15 56K PCI modem (LU5600, what that > means) which claimed Windows 2000, XP and Linux compatibility. Does > anyone have any experience with it? > > My friend's daughter has an AOpen ITU/2 which works with Knoppix. > She is also using Windows 2000 with which she has problems getting the > modem to work. > She wants to upgrade to Windows XP for which AOpen has no drivers for > the ITU/2 (I've checked the website). > Dialup is the only option available. Bell confirms that the only > available highspeed is via satellite. Any modem that doesn't require drivers will be fine. Also, does it have to be internal? External modems tend not to require drivers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 12:57:10 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:57:10 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0BCD3.1090107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44C0CF26.9050508@pppoe.ca> James Knott wrote: >Meng Cheah wrote: > > >>Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with >>Windows 2000, XP and Linux? >>And also where to get it. >> >> >> >> > >Any modem that doesn't require drivers will be fine. Also, does it have >to be internal? External modems tend not to require drivers. > > > External modems tend to be more expensive than the internal ones. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 13:20:42 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:20:42 -0700 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0CF26.9050508-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> <44C0CF26.9050508@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 7/21/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > >Meng Cheah wrote: > > > > > >>Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with > >>Windows 2000, XP and Linux? > >>And also where to get it. > > > >Any modem that doesn't require drivers will be fine. Also, does it have > >to be internal? External modems tend not to require drivers. > External modems tend to be more expensive than the internal ones. Yeah, the need for a case is not costless... I see three choices at Canada Computers (who commonly are a good choice for cheap hardware), one being a "cable modem," and therefore NOT a modem, as well as two that are internal PCI cards. TigerDirect.ca has more choices, but nicely shows off the price difference; most internal modems cost ~$15, whereas the externals cost ~$110... I've never bought an internal, though; it was never worth the loss of reliability and compatibility that results from that... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 22:15:27 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:15:27 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060720221527.GA30039@wp.magstar.net> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 03:39:46PM -0400, Vlad wrote: > On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: > [snip] > > > >A single network segment won't support more than 256 hosts but 100 is > >about the limit ime. It would make a 100MBps segment feel like 1MBps > >adsl, at best. > > Repeat after me "This is my multicasted stream. There are many > like it, but this one is mine. Multicasting is my best friend. It is > my life. [...]". Ahem. I'll be quiet now. ;) Doesn't router has to support multicast? Or, is it a fundamental IP scheme? As far as I know multicast is suitable when you don't care about error or feedback. But, when you're copying partition image to multiple targets at the same time, when happens if one target wants some packets retransmited? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 13:34:28 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:34:28 -0400 Subject: djp (linuxcaffe) ghost poster Message-ID: Hi team ! I have an embarrassing confession to make; I'm an inadvertent ghost poster ! It's like this; I started to use gmail about a year ago. I know, "no big deal", but I have been surprised that NONE of my pithy comments, nor pertinent posts, have been responded to. For the longest time, I assumed that it was because.. uhhh... nothing I posted was interesting enough, or that you guys and gals were just getting bored of the whole linuxcaffe thang. I knew the messages were getting through, because I could see my posts in both the sent box AND in the Inbox thread. WRONG ! according to gmane, I just don't exist ! conspiracy ? NO ! stupidity ! I'm sending from a new address and not getting past the filter ! POO ! OK, I figgered that out (with a little help from my friends) and I'm ready to jump back into the fray ! I'm even going to comb through my send box and resend all of the clever messages that never got out. So incase you though I was being distant and aloof, NOT SO ! just daft ! so HELLO again, we miss you, all is forgiven, djp -- www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5 (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 13:48:49 2006 From: systems-qMtYMQfCx00 at public.gmane.org (Kyril Stoikopoulos) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:48:49 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> <44C0CF26.9050508@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: ebay is a good place to get external modems not new but try this link. $22.00 shiped to your door. Shipping from missasauga would take 1 day. http://cgi.ebay.ca/US-Robotics-External-56K-Modem_W0QQitemZ200009088941QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14920QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" To: Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? > On 7/21/06, Meng Cheah wrote: >> James Knott wrote: >> >> >Meng Cheah wrote: >> > >> > >> >>Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with >> >>Windows 2000, XP and Linux? >> >>And also where to get it. >> > >> >Any modem that doesn't require drivers will be fine. Also, does it have >> >to be internal? External modems tend not to require drivers. > >> External modems tend to be more expensive than the internal ones. > > Yeah, the need for a case is not costless... > > I see three choices at Canada Computers (who commonly are a good > choice for cheap hardware), one being a "cable modem," and therefore > NOT a modem, as well as two that are internal PCI cards. > TigerDirect.ca has more choices, but nicely shows off the price > difference; most internal modems cost ~$15, whereas the externals cost > ~$110... > > I've never bought an internal, though; it was never worth the loss of > reliability and compatibility that results from that... > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 13:49:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [HW] A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0B846.1010000-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20060721134919.GB13639@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 07:19:34AM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with > Windows 2000, XP and Linux? > And also where to get it. > > I was at Factory Direct and saw a $15 56K PCI modem (LU5600, what that > means) which claimed Windows 2000, XP and Linux compatibility. Does > anyone have any experience with it? At that price, I would expect it to be a winmodem. Remember there are some winmodems that do have drivers for linux for some kernel versions. They often don't work very well though, but some makers think it is enough to claim linux support. Now if it says DOS support, then it is a hardware modem in almost all cases. > My friend's daughter has an AOpen ITU/2 which works with Knoppix. > She is also using Windows 2000 with which she has problems getting the > modem to work. > She wants to upgrade to Windows XP for which AOpen has no drivers for > the ITU/2 (I've checked the website). > Dialup is the only option available. Bell confirms that the only > available highspeed is via satellite. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. Well hardware modems aren't really in much demand anymore, so there are very few left, and they are generally not that cheap either. Any hardware modem will work with windows and will NOT require any special drivers to be installed. It is after all just a hardware modem and it should just work, just as it does in linux. USR 5610(B) has always been a popular known to work model. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 13:57:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:57:18 -0400 Subject: Is Javascript bad? Is W3 validation important, or just cross-browser compatibility is? (was: Supermarket repackaging trick again) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990607201653k114e34aene46ec2259f7dd2d3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44BD9802.3000101@rogers.com> <1e55af990607201653k114e34aene46ec2259f7dd2d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060721135718.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 06:53:40PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm going to agree. It's not hard to make alternatives to JavaScript. > However, there are some really great tricks which can be done with it > that end up being tempting enough to use.. and time consuming enough > to implement that people don't have the time to think about and > develop javascript alternatives. > > Yes, the logic does flow backwards.. javascript as a primary tool and > non-javascript is the secondary alternative. Go figure. > > But to be honest.. if a person doesn't have JavaScript then they're > fringe and most developers would consider them unimportant. On the > other hand, people who have it turned off (like myself) get used to > turning it back on to click navigation links etc.. =/ > > I don't think it's unreasonable to have JavaScript as a necessary part > of a website, even without an alternative. However, I still thirst > for a proper blocking tool which can block certain elements of a > specific page, and intelligently allow others. At the moment I just > have sitewide blocking with temporary unblocking. People who have to use screen readers or other accesibility devices just might disagree with you. People who care about having a secure web browser would certainly disagree with you. And of course often the javascript stuff makes the site harder to use than plain old links, after all the plain old links are what people expect on a web site. I find it very annoying to get to a site where clicking on stuff does nothing, and after digging through the page source, I find out someone thought they should do some clever javascript to convert all sorts of arguments into the actual url to go to, all of which a script on the server should have already done, and of course their javascript is so badly written it only works on IE. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 14:02:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:02:08 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <200607202207.12301.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060721140208.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:07:12PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > This is the second time this has happened to me. My 80 Gig drive had the > usual 3 Primary part's and the extended to the end of the disk. I have > several logicals with about 30 gigs free. > > Yesterday I tried to create a new partition and found there was no space. The > extended has changed its end point to the last created and formatted > partition. The rest is now hidden. > > QTparted can't change the end point, is there any other way of recovering all > that free space other than deleting all the logicals and changing the > extended end point? > > If I can recreate the logicals with the same start and end cylinders, is > there any chance they will still be ok? What is the output of 'fdisk -l /dev/xxx' for that drive? After all if you somehow ended up with this you would have a problem: hda1 primary cylinder 1 - 100 hda2 extended cylinder 101 - 1000 hda3 primary cylinder 1001 - 2000 hda4 primary cylinder 2001 - 3000 free space cylinder 3001 - 4000 hda5 logical cylinder 101 - 500 hda6 logical cylinder 501 - 1000 I have managed to do that before, and having free space that is not right after the extended partition means I can't add it to the extended partition. This is part of the reason I always use LVM now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 14:03:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:03:15 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0BCD3.1090107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060721140315.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 07:38:59AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Any modem that doesn't require drivers will be fine. Also, does it have > to be internal? External modems tend not to require drivers. Unless they are USB. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 14:08:10 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CUPS problem on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <19720.72.38.22.170.1153422994.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <19720.72.38.22.170.1153422994.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <20060721140810.35531.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> I got it working. I had to install hplip in order for it to work. I now got all my HP JetDirect printers working with samba fine. EK --- "Stephen W. Clarke" wrote: > I've also been fighting with Ubuntu 6.06 and CUPS. > > My hunt turned up this link: > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/42802 > > Not a whole lot of help to me but might be useful to > you. > > Stephen > > > > Hi all, > > > > I installed Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake) as a > server > > and as a workstation. I installed cupsys on both > and > > tried to install a JetDirect printer with lpadmin > on > > both. The command line I used is identical and > > checking the printer.conf file proves that it is > so. > > > > However, I was able to print from the workstation > the > > server simply queues the request and does not > print > > it. lpstat shows the job queued but lprm says > there is > > no active jobs on the printer. > > > > Any idea? > > > > TIA > > EK > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 > Fax: (905) 627-5022 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 14:28:39 2006 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:39 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: <44C0B846.1010000-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Jul 21, 2006, at 7:19 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Can anyone recommend a cheap PCI dialup modem that will work with > Windows 2000, XP and Linux? > And also where to get it. > > I was at Factory Direct and saw a $15 56K PCI modem (LU5600, what > that means) which claimed Windows 2000, XP and Linux compatibility. > Does anyone have any experience with it? > > My friend's daughter has an AOpen ITU/2 which works with Knoppix. > She is also using Windows 2000 with which she has problems getting > the modem to work. > She wants to upgrade to Windows XP for which AOpen has no drivers > for the ITU/2 (I've checked the website). > Dialup is the only option available. Bell confirms that the only > available highspeed is via satellite. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Meng Cheah > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I found this: http://www.littlest.co.uk/support/creative_usb_modem_linux_guide.html You can apparently get that Creative USB Modem working under Linux, but a quick search revealed prices around $40-$50. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 14:34:58 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:34:58 -0400 Subject: djp (linuxcaffe) ghost poster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44C0E612.20106@pppoe.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > Hi team ! > I have an embarrassing confession to make; > I'm an inadvertent ghost poster ! > > It's like this; I started to use gmail about a year ago. I know, "no > big deal", but I have been surprised that NONE of my pithy comments, > nor pertinent posts, have been responded to. For the longest time, I > assumed that it was because.. uhhh... nothing I posted was interesting > enough, or that you guys and gals were just getting bored of the whole > linuxcaffe thang. > > I knew the messages were getting through, because I could see my posts > in both the sent box AND in the Inbox thread. > You could see it in the Inbox thread? What Inbox thread? Where? > WRONG ! > > according to gmane, I just don't exist ! > conspiracy ? NO ! > stupidity ! > > I'm sending from a new address and not getting past the filter ! > > POO ! > > OK, I figgered that out (with a little help from my friends) and I'm > ready to jump back into the fray ! I'm even going to comb through my > send box and resend all of the clever messages that never got out. > One year of messages all at once, now? > So incase you though I was being distant and aloof, NOT SO ! > just daft ! > > so HELLO again, > we miss you, > all is forgiven, > djp > Welcome back, we spoke at the Linux World show. I figured that you were just in "stealth" lurk mode :-) Seriously, David, are you interested in speaking on Linux and applications for small and medium-sized businesses? Perhaps you'll inspire more businesses to make the move (or at least, explore the possibilities). I for one, will be interested in your perspective since operating linuxcaffe. You can always contact me off list. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 20 22:30:12 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:30:12 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720191430.37957.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720183354.GA29010@wp.magstar.net> <20060720191430.37957.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060720223012.GB30039@wp.magstar.net> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 03:14:30PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > What's the physical size of those machines? > > They are low profile desktop boxes, the official > specs. say the following: > > Low-profile chassis: > Weight 10.89 kg (24 lb) > Height 10.9 cm (4.3 inches) > Width 40.89 cm (16.1 inches) > Depth 43.69 cm (17.2 inches) I'll help out, subject to scheduling. > > > There are DOS-based ghosting solution, but I'm not > > comfortable blindly > > copying sector for sector. What I usually do is > > "tar stream", ie. > > tar -cf - > /dev/tcp/11.22.33.44/5566 > > nc -l -p 5566 | tar -xf - > > We can NOT count on the drives all being the same > size, Dell would have installed what ever hard drive > they could get for the lowest price that day. Further > during the time those machines were in government > service no doubt some of the drives were replaced. > Other issues, some of the machines have a sound card > in the expansion bus, some of the machines have sound > on the motherboard... So we are looking at a lot of > very similar, but not identical machines... In that case, set up rows of computers, and go through them like assembly line, CD by CD. That way, no need for 100 port hub, ethernet cables, etc. But, really, full install of Redhat-9 is about 5GB, full install of Slackware-10.2 is 3GB, and Ubuntu is even smaller. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 15:07:44 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:07:44 -0400 Subject: djp (linuxcaffe) ghost poster In-Reply-To: <44C0E612.20106-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44C0E612.20106@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 7/21/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > > > I knew the messages were getting through, because I could see my posts > > in both the sent box AND in the Inbox thread. > > > You could see it in the Inbox thread? What Inbox thread? Where? using gmail, in my Inbox, I could see my posts interleaved with the thread. >> I'm even going to comb through my > > send box and resend all of the clever messages that never got out. > > > One year of messages all at once, now? yup ! > > > Welcome back, we spoke at the Linux World show. > I figured that you were just in "stealth" lurk mode :-) Well, I have been way too preoccupied with the caffe to maintain historic mailinglist banter, or even really to follow a lot of the threads. > > Seriously, David, are you interested in speaking on Linux and > applications for small and medium-sized businesses? Ready and able ! It's sort of all I really do.. besides baking, web development and janitorial duties ! ;-) > Perhaps you'll inspire more businesses to make the move (or at least, > explore the possibilities). I think I already have ! > I for one, will be interested in your perspective since operating > linuxcaffe. thanks, djp -- www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5 (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 15:33:25 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:33:25 -0400 Subject: djp (linuxcaffe) ghost poster In-Reply-To: References: <44C0E612.20106@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44C0F3C5.2050100@pppoe.ca> David J Patrick wrote: >> Welcome back, we spoke at the Linux World show. >> I figured that you were just in "stealth" lurk mode :-) > > Well, I have been way too preoccupied with the caffe to maintain > historic mailinglist banter, or even really to follow a lot of the > threads. > That too :-) >> >> Seriously, David, are you interested in speaking on Linux and >> applications for small and medium-sized businesses? > > Ready and able ! It's sort of all I really do.. besides baking, web > development and janitorial duties ! ;-) > >> Perhaps you'll inspire more businesses to make the move (or at least, >> explore the possibilities). > > I think I already have ! That you have :-) Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 16:11:58 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18944.72.38.22.170.1153498318.squirrel@72.38.22.170> I don't know how much bandwidth or space you need, but I came across these people today. http://www.hostsearch.com/plan_info/country-tyme_web_hosting_shared_hosting_27930.asp At $2/month (smallest package) they have some of the cheapest hosting I've seen. Stephen > > Hi All: > > I wanted to see if any suggestions on reliable (& affordable) web hosting. > > By switching universities this summer I'm losing access to a unix account > which I was able to ssh into for e-mail (pine) and web page editing. > So I'm looking for something reliable and affordable that would do the > same thing (or even better, allow use of php/mysql). One option is do > this from my computer, but I'm worried that it would make it more > vulnerable to break ins. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. > > Alex > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 16:38:04 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:38:04 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <20060721140208.GB13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> <20060721140208.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607211238.04935.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 21 July 2006 10:02, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:07:12PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > > This is the second time this has happened to me. My 80 Gig drive had the > > usual 3 Primary part's and the extended to the end of the disk. I have > > several logicals with about 30 gigs free. > > > > Yesterday I tried to create a new partition and found there was no space. > > The extended has changed its end point to the last created and formatted > > partition. The rest is now hidden. > > > > QTparted can't change the end point, is there any other way of recovering > > all that free space other than deleting all the logicals and changing the > > extended end point? > > > > If I can recreate the logicals with the same start and end cylinders, is > > there any chance they will still be ok? > > What is the output of 'fdisk -l /dev/xxx' for that drive? > > After all if you somehow ended up with this you would have a problem: > > hda1 primary cylinder 1 - 100 > hda2 extended cylinder 101 - 1000 > hda3 primary cylinder 1001 - 2000 > hda4 primary cylinder 2001 - 3000 > free space cylinder 3001 - 4000 > hda5 logical cylinder 101 - 500 > hda6 logical cylinder 501 - 1000 > > I have managed to do that before, and having free space that is not > right after the extended partition means I can't add it to the extended > partition. This is part of the reason I always use LVM now. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- The computer in question is another one, but here is your list modified Total cylinders 10000 hda1 primary cylinder 1 - 100 hda2 primary cylinder 101 - 1000 hda3 primary cylinder 1001 - 2000 hda4 extended cylinder 2001 - 5000 [was 10000] hda5 logical cylinder 2001 - 2500 hda6 logical cylinder 2501 - 5000 free space cylinder 5001 - 10000 Can you visualize it now? I have scanned the some LVM doc's and it mostly went right over my head, maybe I should spend a bit more time on it. Too late now I guess. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 16:49:32 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: This month's NewTLUG meeting/get-together Message-ID: *** Regular meeting -> un-regular get-together *** Because we were unable to bring together all the necessary elements for a regular meeting, this month's regular NewTLUG meeting has been canceled - ...but we are thinking of having an un-regular get together at a restaurant or pub. We're thinking something near the subway with parking nearby. Suggestions so far are: Yonge - Finch area, Yonge - Sheppard, Yorkdale. What we need to know is how many of us would there likely be - so that we can make some arrangements. Also, if anyone has any specific suggestion as to where we might meet please let us know. What we need is a restaurant/pub that is: - in the north end of the city, - good, inexpensive, crowd tolerant, - near the Yonge, Sheppard or Downsview subway lines, and - has reasonable parking close by. How many of us would come out? -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 17:28:41 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:28:41 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <200607211238.04935.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> <20060721140208.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607211238.04935.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060721172841.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 12:38:04PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > The computer in question is another one, but here is your list modified > > Total cylinders 10000 > > hda1 primary cylinder 1 - 100 > hda2 primary cylinder 101 - 1000 > hda3 primary cylinder 1001 - 2000 > hda4 extended cylinder 2001 - 5000 [was 10000] > > hda5 logical cylinder 2001 - 2500 > hda6 logical cylinder 2501 - 5000 > > free space cylinder 5001 - 10000 > > Can you visualize it now? Try cfdisk. I have seen a number of partition editing tools be too stupid to realize they can add to the existing extended partition. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 18:35:19 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:35:19 -0400 Subject: HOWTO Install Kanotix on a USB External Drive Message-ID: <61e9e2b10607211135l336a23b8m1fdba233f5b201f7@mail.gmail.com> I just reposted a much-revised tutorial on installing and configuring Kanotix on a USB external drive - it was a real fun project to setup! Hope it proves helpful. I put in a link to GTALUG: http://biohackery.com/node/4#howto Sorry, Jamon, I lost your posted comment attached to the previous HOWTO when I moved to the new website and setup Drupal. Did you do the USB install as planned? How did it turn out? -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 22:50:54 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:50:54 -0400 Subject: HOWTO Install Kanotix on a USB External Drive In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10607211135l336a23b8m1fdba233f5b201f7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10607211135l336a23b8m1fdba233f5b201f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I just reposted a much-revised tutorial on installing and configuring > Kanotix on a USB external drive - it was a real fun project to setup! > Hope it proves helpful. I put in a link to GTALUG: > > http://biohackery.com/node/4#howto > > Sorry, Jamon, I lost your posted comment attached to the previous > HOWTO when I moved to the new website and setup Drupal. Did you do the > USB install as planned? How did it turn out? No worries, I lost a few comments when I upgraded my site from Wordpress to Drupal 4.7 a few months ago. I did indeed do a usb install and liked it so much, that is, speed, ease, space, and geek factor (of course), that I've set aside my 40gb 2.5" drive for a variety of distros. ATM I've got 10 3.5GB partitions, with: Ubuntu/Kubuntu (both) SuSE 10.1 Fedora Core 5 CentOS 4.3 Mandriva 2006 Debian Testing Gentoo Backtrack Freespire beta 2 /home directory swap remainder For some I installed to my internal 40gb drive first and then copied over onto the usb partition (for those installers that had a hard time with usb). Others just worked with USB with no problems. I also blocked any bootloaders from installing except for grub with Ubuntu (from a few months ago). Lots of fun. Really :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 21 22:53:19 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:53:19 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720221527.GA30039-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720160953.67456.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20060720221527.GA30039@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44C15ADF.8040902@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 03:39:46PM -0400, Vlad wrote: >> On 7/20/06, Peter wrote: >> [snip] >>> A single network segment won't support more than 256 hosts but 100 is >>> about the limit ime. It would make a 100MBps segment feel like 1MBps >>> adsl, at best. >> Repeat after me "This is my multicasted stream. There are many >> like it, but this one is mine. Multicasting is my best friend. It is >> my life. [...]". Ahem. I'll be quiet now. ;) > > Doesn't router has to support multicast? Or, is it a fundamental IP > scheme? Who said anything about a router? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 00:03:30 2006 From: ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ralph Ellis) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:03:30 -0400 Subject: Doing a Linux MASS install. In-Reply-To: <20060720223012.GB30039-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060720183354.GA29010@wp.magstar.net> <20060720191430.37957.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20060720223012.GB30039@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44C16B52.9010903@netscape.ca> Once it is decided what distribution that is going to be used, I am happy to produce install CDs or DVDs. Do the computers have DVD roms or CD roms? If they have DVD roms, you can do a more complete software install but this takes more time and I understand that time may be at a premium. My fastest installs have been with PCBSD at about 30 minutes. Also it needs minimal intervention and runs fast on old hardware. It does not automatically install an office suite but this can be added in five minutes on a second CD or I could talk to the PCBSD people about giving us a DVD where more programs auto install. Vector Linux SOHO is another good candidate for a quick install that runs well on old hardware. Unbuntu or Kubuntu are probably the easliest to use for newbies. Fedora Core 5 is available on DVD but I have not used it to assess it. Suse is my personal favorite for a complete install but it may have problems on the older hardware. Ralph Ellis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 01:01:14 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:01:14 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <20060721172841.GD13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> <200607211238.04935.mervc@eol.ca> <20060721172841.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607212101.14198.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 21 July 2006 13:28, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 12:38:04PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > > The computer in question is another one, but here is your list modified > > > > Total cylinders 10000 > > > > hda1 primary cylinder 1 - 100 > > hda2 primary cylinder 101 - 1000 > > hda3 primary cylinder 1001 - 2000 > > hda4 extended cylinder 2001 - 5000 [was 10000] > > > > hda5 logical cylinder 2001 - 2500 > > hda6 logical cylinder 2501 - 5000 > > > > free space cylinder 5001 - 10000 > > > > Can you visualize it now? > > Try cfdisk. I have seen a number of partition editing tools be too > stupid to realize they can add to the existing extended partition. > > -- Thanks for the time so far Lennart. When I run cfdisk it doesn't display the extended partition so there may not be a way of editing the end sector of the Extended Partition. Maybe you are more familiar and know a secret or two. With what you said I just tried parted for the first time, it shows the extended and perhaps the resize command will do the job. Any experience with it? I have none and the doc's are in 'info' format so I have only read the man page so far. I'm another who dislikes info a whole lot. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 05:16:04 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:16:04 -0400 Subject: Google Earth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060722051604.GA6886@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:13:05PM +0300, Peter wrote > > Hi all, > > I just got Google Earth for Linux and it works fine with the exception > of some small quirks in the left sidebar menu flow. However it is slow > (as they said). What would be a good set of tips on how to set up the > software so it is usable on slow machines. I tried to make all the 'fly' > options fast and all the other options slow. This should give > 'step'-like movements and somewhat higher speed. Any more ideas ? Google Earth needs a video driver that supports hardware video acceleration. Doesn't matter if it's Windows, Mac, or Linux. Unfortunately, there aren't that many video cards that have drivers with hardware acceleration support. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 09:13:01 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:13:01 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Google Earth In-Reply-To: <20060722051604.GA6886-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060722051604.GA6886@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:13:05PM +0300, Peter wrote >> >> Hi all, >> >> I just got Google Earth for Linux and it works fine with the exception >> of some small quirks in the left sidebar menu flow. However it is slow >> (as they said). What would be a good set of tips on how to set up the >> software so it is usable on slow machines. I tried to make all the 'fly' >> options fast and all the other options slow. This should give >> 'step'-like movements and somewhat higher speed. Any more ideas ? > > Google Earth needs a video driver that supports hardware video > acceleration. Doesn't matter if it's Windows, Mac, or Linux. > Unfortunately, there aren't that many video cards that have drivers with > hardware acceleration support. I know, I was looking for settings in Options which would accelereate it a little bit. Yet, some of those which would work under Linux, would be ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 10:34:49 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:34:49 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Google Earth In-Reply-To: <20060722051604.GA6886-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060722051604.GA6886@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Does double clicking a placemark work for someone in Linux ? It does not work here now. It could be a X11 setup problem. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 13:05:04 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:05:04 -0400 Subject: A Cheap PCI Dialup Modem? In-Reply-To: References: <44C0B846.1010000@pppoe.ca> <44C0BCD3.1090107@rogers.com> <44C0CF26.9050508@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44C22280.8020307@pppoe.ca> Kyril Stoikopoulos wrote: > ebay is a good place to get external modems > not new but try this link. > $22.00 shiped to your door. > Shipping from missasauga would take 1 day. > http://cgi.ebay.ca/US-Robotics-External-56K-Modem_W0QQitemZ200009088941QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14920QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > - Thanks to all who responded. I purchased an external USR 56K modem off eBay for CAD$23.35. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 14:26:34 2006 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:34 -0400 Subject: Suggestions on web hosting? In-Reply-To: <44BFEFE6.6050605-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44BFEFE6.6050605@telly.org> Message-ID: Thanks everyone, for lots of good suggestions! I'm going to give liquidesign.ca a try. They seem to have everything I was looking for except pine for e-mail (which I find a lot quicker than web-mail, except for handling attachments). Alex On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > > I just setup a Drupal install on Hostgator: > > > > http://biohackery.com/node/4#news > > > > Its only been about a week, but so far so good. > > > Looks nice... and thanks for the good words. > > Liquidesign.ca is outside Hamilton and charges $60(CDN)/year. I've > hosted a few sites with them and have had no problems yet. It's a > standard (but current) Cpanel/Fantastico setup. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 20:16:01 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:16:01 -0400 Subject: Google Earth In-Reply-To: <20060722051604.GA6886-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060722051604.GA6886@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <44C28781.90001@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:13:05PM +0300, Peter wrote >> Hi all, >> >> I just got Google Earth for Linux and it works fine with the exception >> of some small quirks in the left sidebar menu flow. However it is slow >> (as they said). What would be a good set of tips on how to set up the >> software so it is usable on slow machines. I tried to make all the 'fly' >> options fast and all the other options slow. This should give >> 'step'-like movements and somewhat higher speed. Any more ideas ? > > Google Earth needs a video driver that supports hardware video > acceleration. Doesn't matter if it's Windows, Mac, or Linux. > Unfortunately, there aren't that many video cards that have drivers with > hardware acceleration support. > I have an NVidia based ASUS AMD64 mom board that runs Google Earth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:04:00 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:04:00 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C2AEE0.3060408@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? David has come up with the idea of a wifi hardware hackfest. Specifically, we're thinking that anyone who wants to play around with wireless equipment will have B/G access and *experts* on hand. Just think of that Linksys WRT54G you've got hanging around. How about that Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card. Then there're the USB dongles and Chinese cookware antennas (no kidding!), take a look here: http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/ For anyone who wants to try making a parabolic wok antenna for ~$10 and wants to try it out legitimately, Linux in the Park could be a great place to do it. Anyone tried making a Pringles can Yagi? Folgers waveguide? Thoughts? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:26:07 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:26:07 -0700 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44C2AEE0.3060408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C2AEE0.3060408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 7/22/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > David has come up with the idea of a wifi hardware hackfest. > Specifically, we're thinking that anyone who wants to play around with > wireless equipment will have B/G access and *experts* on hand. That strikes me as an excellent idea. Although I'd consider "*experts*" to be people that wouldn't be phased by the need to write a driver on the spot... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:27:14 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:27:14 -0400 Subject: Fedora In-Reply-To: <44C2AEE0.3060408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C2AEE0.3060408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hi, Where can I pick up a Fedora 5 installation disk for ppc? I think they're the red disks. I've seen them around and ignored them, and now I'd like to find one. Is there a Red Hat office around somewhere that has them in the lobby, or something like that? Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:38:42 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:38:42 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C2B702.8080801@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? r.e. dates: what do people think of the 25th of August? That date is of particular significance to those who might be familiar with the following (header only): >From: torvalds-lnM/buXam7Mjxog6bMmI4LSLf10MHP48 at public.gmane.org (Linus Benedict Torvalds) >Newsgroups: comp.os.minix >Subject: What would you like to see most in minix? >Summary: small poll for my new operating system >Message-ID: <1991Aug25.205708.9541-lnM/buXam7Mjxog6bMmI4LSLf10MHP48 at public.gmane.org> >Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT >Organization: University of Helsinki That makes August 25, a Friday even, the 15th birthday of Linux. Now I know we'd all love to celebrate GNU's birthday too but... well, I'll leave that one up in the air... David is quite enthusiastic for a Friday 25th birthday celebration. It would also make for a great start to a Linux in the Park weekend gathering and perhaps marathon installfest. That of course puts things off for a considerable while. Perhaps two events? More thoughts? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:56:17 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:56:17 -0400 Subject: HOWTO Install Kanotix on a USB External Drive In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10607211135l336a23b8m1fdba233f5b201f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10607221656v1bdcb220g42f96b7469a9954c@mail.gmail.com> On 7/21/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I did indeed do a usb install and liked it so much, that is, speed, > ease, space, and geek factor (of course), that I've set aside my 40gb > 2.5" drive for a variety of distros. ATM I've got 10 3.5GB partitions, with: > > Ubuntu/Kubuntu (both) > SuSE 10.1 > Fedora Core 5 > CentOS 4.3 > Mandriva 2006 > Debian Testing > Gentoo > Backtrack > Freespire beta 2 > /home directory > swap remainder > > For some I installed to my internal 40gb drive first and then copied > over onto the usb partition (for those installers that had a hard time > with usb). Others just worked with USB with no problems. I also blocked > any bootloaders from installing except for grub with Ubuntu (from a few > months ago). Lots of fun. Really :) It *does* sound like fun! So you boot all the other Linux installs with Ubuntu's grub, and share a single /home amongst them all? -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:58:38 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:58:38 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <44C2B702.8080801-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C2B702.8080801@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10607221658k2db12b20yd89b85fcc4aa1dc8@mail.gmail.com> On 7/22/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > r.e. dates: what do people think of the 25th of August? That date is of > particular significance to those who might be familiar with the > following (header only): Sounds great to me. -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 22 23:58:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:58:46 -0400 Subject: Linuxcaffe wants your forks Message-ID: <44C2BBB6.70708@utoronto.ca> Subject should be self-explanatory. If you have forks (metal), bring them and put them in the soon to be provided bucket. They will be twisted/welded/glued/soldered/fastened by any means necessary, into a fantastic piece of contemporary sculpture. Thanks! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 00:05:07 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:05:07 -0400 Subject: Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44C2BD33.1080903@rogers.com> Chris Cunnington wrote: > Hi, > > Where can I pick up a Fedora 5 installation disk for ppc? I think they're > the red disks. I've seen them around and ignored them, and now I'd like to > find one. Is there a Red Hat office around somewhere that has them in the > lobby, or something like that? A few seconds of hard googling turned up this. ftp://ftp.linux.ncsu.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/ppc/iso -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 00:06:22 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:06:22 -0400 Subject: HOWTO Install Kanotix on a USB External Drive In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10607221656v1bdcb220g42f96b7469a9954c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10607211135l336a23b8m1fdba233f5b201f7@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10607221656v1bdcb220g42f96b7469a9954c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C2BD7E.5070205@utoronto.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > It *does* sound like fun! > > So you boot all the other Linux installs with Ubuntu's grub, and share > a single /home amongst them all? It could of course be any other distro's grub (SuSE 10.1 likes to totally b0rk all other bootloaders I've found), or lilo too I suppose. I don't much work with the unit, more of a fun project than anything else. The shared /home and swap are a must :) What I'd do next time is find out beforehand how much space each distro uses on a default install and customize my partitions accordingly. I'm sure given enough research I could fit 15 or more full installs on the unit. Next up... squashfs, unionfs, or whatever it is that lets you compress a bootable image -- with backtrack there are two options a 700mb install, or a 2.7GB install, both from the same 700mb cd, so I know this option will work with others. Perhaps an ongoing project like that 10 distros on 1 DVD project: http://www.securedvd.org/about.html ? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 00:06:45 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:06:45 -0400 Subject: Linuxcaffe wants your forks In-Reply-To: <44C2BBB6.70708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C2BBB6.70708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44C2BD95.5020302@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Subject should be self-explanatory. If you have forks (metal), bring > them and put them in the soon to be provided bucket. > > They will be twisted/welded/glued/soldered/fastened by any means > necessary, into a fantastic piece of contemporary sculpture. Well, so long as you don't fork Linux. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 00:29:40 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:29:40 -0400 Subject: Fedora In-Reply-To: <44C2BD33.1080903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C2BD33.1080903@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/22/06 8:05 PM, "James Knott" wrote: > Chris Cunnington wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Where can I pick up a Fedora 5 installation disk for ppc? I think they're >> the red disks. I've seen them around and ignored them, and now I'd like to >> find one. Is there a Red Hat office around somewhere that has them in the >> lobby, or something like that? > > A few seconds of hard googling turned up this. > > ftp://ftp.linux.ncsu.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/ppc/iso > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml James, This is the problem I'm trying to get away from. I've downloaded. I've burnt disks. I've attempted to load using boot.iso using the instructions from: http://www.bytebot.net/geekdocs/ibook/fedorappc.html Part 5 of that tutorial says burn boot.iso, restart, while holding down C. Then something should happen. Nothing happens. It reverts to OS X. Where do I get a Fedora ppc disk in Toronto? Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 01:43:28 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linuxcaffe wants your forks In-Reply-To: <44C2BBB6.70708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C2BBB6.70708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Subject should be self-explanatory. If you have forks (metal), bring > them and put them in the soon to be provided bucket. > > They will be twisted/welded/glued/soldered/fastened by any means > necessary, into a fantastic piece of contemporary sculpture. The fork()s might be fastened with thread()s ? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 13:31:35 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:31:35 -0400 Subject: Linux in the Park thoughts... In-Reply-To: <20060717145916.78351.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060717145916.78351.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > Last Friday I spoke to David Patrick (owner of > Linuxcaffe) about the idea of doing a Linux in the > Park event in August. > > The idea would be to get a little sun, play with some > Linux boxes and otherwise have a bit of fun down in a > park across the street from Linuxcaffe (near Bloor and > Christie). Now, David notes he can arrange for the > following: > > - Wireless Internet (via a router inside Linuxcaffe). > - Some power in the park (10 Amps/115 volts, enough to > power several laptops). > - Some cheap (used) PCs for sale. > > What else should be looked at for an event like this? Who has a copy of the Film Revolution OS? For those who have seen it, I'm sure you'll agree that it is nothing short of the most suitable film to show for an event like this, perhaps on the 25th of August doubly so. FOr those who haven't seen it, the film is quite a treat to watch. Anyone care to bring their DVD copy for Linux in the Park? We're thinking projection at the cafe. Any other good documentaries that would be appropriate? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 15:09:48 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:09:48 -0400 Subject: [OT] Aaargggh! FLOSS project in need! Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607230809l743ce41au72809809fccf4e04@mail.gmail.com> I logged into /. today to submit an article about Atomic OS. After browsing through the headlines a bit, I got down to the business of writing my story. I submitted it, and went back to the headlines and discovered a story about YouOS from MIT Labs. Their article was posted while I was writing mine. They have done many of the items that I've been working towards and are now well ahead of me. If there are any in the community that might want to help (analysis of differences, coding, graphics help) please let me know, or join the mailing list(s) at http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ Sorry for the rant, but I've been working on this for a long time - I simply can't believe what I'm seeing. -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 15:26:00 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:26:00 -0700 Subject: GPG Key Signing Message-ID: I have added a page to the Wiki on this ... Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to do a fairly massive key signing? -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 15:26:12 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:26:12 -0400 Subject: New USB device is what? Message-ID: <200607231126.13082.mervc@eol.ca> I know this has been covered over and over but I can't find it in the past messages. My new usb MP3 player is recognised by the kernel in both SuSE 10.1 and Kanotix. However neither gives at hint as to the device I should use to mount this unit. I think the info maybe hidden somewhere in /proc but that is a mysterious place for me to navigate. As far as I know, my new IRiver has been converted to UMF format, if it isn't formatted would that be the reason it isn't fully recognised? Seems I forget as much as I am learning these days. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 15:46:51 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:46:51 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christopher Browne wrote: > I have added a page to the Wiki on this > ... > > Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, > the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to > do a fairly massive key signing? Part of Linux in the Park? What about having a known signer with somewhat predictable monthly (or something) appearances at the cafe too? That is, if someone is willing. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 15:48:39 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:48:39 -0400 Subject: New USB device is what? In-Reply-To: <200607231126.13082.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607231126.13082.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley wrote: > I know this has been covered over and over but I can't find it in the past > messages. > > My new usb MP3 player is recognised by the kernel in both SuSE 10.1 and > Kanotix. However neither gives at hint as to the device I should use to > mount this unit. > > I think the info maybe hidden somewhere in /proc but that is a mysterious > place for me to navigate. > > As far as I know, my new IRiver has been converted to UMF format, if it isn't > formatted would that be the reason it isn't fully recognised? It should be /dev/sda or /dev/sda1 assuming you aren't using any other usb, scsi, or sata drives. Change your sd(x) accordingly if you have any other scsi like devices. You can also check it with cfdisk e.g. cfdisk /dev/sda (without the partition # for the whole device). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 16:46:54 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:46:54 -0700 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/23/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > I have added a page to the Wiki on this > > ... > > > > Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, > > the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to > > do a fairly massive key signing? > > Part of Linux in the Park? It seems to me that doing too many things there would be dilutive of doing any of them effectively... But if people came with passports/ID and copies of their fingerprints, I'm sure some signatures could get signed... > What about having a known signer with > somewhat predictable monthly (or something) appearances at the cafe too? > That is, if someone is willing. That would be a great idea; listing that on www.biglumber.com would seem a useful mechanism for both publicity and for people to easily prepare for such a signing. This presumably only needs permission from David; if someone wants to commit to being there periodically, available for key signings, that requires no special LUG involvement, only someone's personal committment... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 18:09:06 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:09:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Aaargggh! FLOSS project in need! In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0607230809l743ce41au72809809fccf4e04-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607230809l743ce41au72809809fccf4e04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C3BB42.7040104@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > I logged into /. today to submit an article about Atomic OS. After > browsing through the headlines a bit, I got down to the business of > writing my story. I submitted it, and went back to the headlines and > discovered a story about YouOS from MIT Labs. > > Their article was posted while I was writing mine. > > They have done many of the items that I've been working towards and > are now well ahead of me. > > If there are any in the community that might want to help (analysis of > differences, coding, graphics help) please let me know, or join the > mailing list(s) at http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > > Sorry for the rant, but I've been working on this for a long time - I > simply can't believe what I'm seeing. > I've been working on my backup program for over two years now... I am always worried that someone or some company would release something similar, completely invaliding all my work. So far, there have been a couple apps released that are quite similar, and I've had a few "OMG!" moments, too. My only suggestion is this; When something like this happens you have a couple of options. One is look to see if the work you've done compliments the bigger app and see if you can merge your code into theirs. Not ideal, but at least you won't lose all your work. The second option, which is the option I've (so far) opted for, is too find aspects of your program that are different enough to appeal to a different group of people and shift the focus of your program to that group, so that you don't step on each other's toes so much. It's not much, by I hope it helps. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 18:15:33 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:15:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] Aaargggh! FLOSS project in need! In-Reply-To: <44C3BB42.7040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607230809l743ce41au72809809fccf4e04@mail.gmail.com> <44C3BB42.7040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44C3BCC5.7030001@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> I logged into /. today to submit an article about Atomic OS. After >> browsing through the headlines a bit, I got down to the business of >> writing my story. I submitted it, and went back to the headlines and >> discovered a story about YouOS from MIT Labs. >> >> Their article was posted while I was writing mine. >> >> They have done many of the items that I've been working towards and >> are now well ahead of me. >> >> If there are any in the community that might want to help (analysis of >> differences, coding, graphics help) please let me know, or join the >> mailing list(s) at http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Sorry for the rant, but I've been working on this for a long time - I >> simply can't believe what I'm seeing. >> > > I've been working on my backup program for over two years now... I am > always worried that someone or some company would release something > similar, completely invaliding all my work. So far, there have been a > couple apps released that are quite similar, and I've had a few "OMG!" > moments, too. > > My only suggestion is this; When something like this happens you have a > couple of options. One is look to see if the work you've done > compliments the bigger app and see if you can merge your code into > theirs. Not ideal, but at least you won't lose all your work. > > The second option, which is the option I've (so far) opted for, is too > find aspects of your program that are different enough to appeal to a > different group of people and shift the focus of your program to that > group, so that you don't step on each other's toes so much. And hopefully SCO won't claim it as their IP. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 18:19:47 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:19:47 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, > the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to > do a fairly massive key signing? I'd like to help if possible. I'm hardly an authority on the issue, but I am an assurer for CAcert and would be happy to add anyone attending to its WoT in addition to the usual signings. Being involved with CACert allows you to get security certificates for domains and servers as well as specific email addresses. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 18:59:22 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:59:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] Aaargggh! FLOSS project in need! In-Reply-To: <44C3BB42.7040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607230809l743ce41au72809809fccf4e04@mail.gmail.com> <44C3BB42.7040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607231159r2c48ec9fu1246bfe89c63342c@mail.gmail.com> On 7/23/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've been working on my backup program for over two years now... I am > always worried that someone or some company would release something > similar, completely invaliding all my work. So far, there have been a > couple apps released that are quite similar, and I've had a few "OMG!" > moments, too. > > My only suggestion is this; When something like this happens you have a > couple of options. One is look to see if the work you've done > compliments the bigger app and see if you can merge your code into > theirs. Not ideal, but at least you won't lose all your work. > > The second option, which is the option I've (so far) opted for, is too > find aspects of your program that are different enough to appeal to a > different group of people and shift the focus of your program to that > group, so that you don't step on each other's toes so much. Madison, Thanks for your thoughts, they are most appreciated. I'd settled on option 2 before I posted my rant - I think I know the key differences to bank on. YouOS is also open source (BSD based license) and I can probably learn a lot from their project. What they've done with their demo is fantastic, but there are a couple of reasons why I think Atomic OS needs to "go it alone." Probably the biggest point is that Atomic OS doesn't require a server. Advanced features like database access or online filesystems require a server, but otherwise Atomic OS is a self contained (as one file) environment. You can carry it and it's applications and/or data with you in a USB key... Just like TiddlyWiki. The only thing I need to turn Atomic OS into a serious contender is one or two more programmers that know JavaScript. I want to post to the TiddlyWiki developers list (of which I've been a member for closing on a year), but I don't know if it's a "correct" thing to do. I don't want to take any developers from that project. Then again, they're the ones most likely to see the true potential of Atomic OS. Anyone interested: Links for reference, sorry I didn't provide the URL's earlier. Slashdot story: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/23/1231217 YouOS: https://www.youos.com/ -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 20:24:56 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:24:56 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <200607212101.14198.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> <200607211238.04935.mervc@eol.ca> <20060721172841.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200607212101.14198.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060723202456.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 09:01:14PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > When I run cfdisk it doesn't display the extended partition so there may not > be a way of editing the end sector of the Extended Partition. Maybe you are > more familiar and know a secret or two. > > With what you said I just tried parted for the first time, it shows the > extended and perhaps the resize command will do the job. Any experience with > it? I have none and the doc's are in 'info' format so I have only read the > man page so far. I'm another who dislikes info a whole lot. cfdisk just shows the actual partitions, since it knows the extended partition is just a wrapper around all the logical partitions. Just add another logical partition and it should do the right thing in my experience. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 20:25:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:25:57 -0400 Subject: Google Earth In-Reply-To: <20060722051604.GA6886-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060722051604.GA6886@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060723202556.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 01:16:04AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Google Earth needs a video driver that supports hardware video > acceleration. Doesn't matter if it's Windows, Mac, or Linux. > Unfortunately, there aren't that many video cards that have drivers with > hardware acceleration support. Works great on the nvidia boards I have used it on (using the nvidia binary driver) on Debian. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 20:29:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:29:21 -0400 Subject: New USB device is what? In-Reply-To: <200607231126.13082.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607231126.13082.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060723202921.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 23, 2006 at 11:26:12AM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > I know this has been covered over and over but I can't find it in the past > messages. > > My new usb MP3 player is recognised by the kernel in both SuSE 10.1 and > Kanotix. However neither gives at hint as to the device I should use to > mount this unit. > > I think the info maybe hidden somewhere in /proc but that is a mysterious > place for me to navigate. > > As far as I know, my new IRiver has been converted to UMF format, if it isn't > formatted would that be the reason it isn't fully recognised? > > Seems I forget as much as I am learning these days. if it is switched to the usb storage type interface, then you should be able to simply mount it as a disk, usually it should be either /dev/sda or /dev/sda1 (depending on if it has partitions or not). The driver is 'usb-storage' along with sd-mod (mod-sd?) and such. If it is not in the usb storage setting., then it realy won't work at all, you will just see it detecting an unknown usb device. What does 'lsusb' show? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 22:56:21 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:56:21 -0400 Subject: New USB device is what? In-Reply-To: <200607231126.13082.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200607231126.13082.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: For both my USB key and MP3 recorder (Neuros Audio), /mnt/removable just automounts .. it's a thing of beauty. Mandrake 10.1 with 2.6.3 kernel (hey, it was bleeding edge for 24 hours). Alex On 7/23/06, Merv Curley wrote: > > I know this has been covered over and over but I can't find it in the past > messages. > > My new usb MP3 player is recognised by the kernel in both SuSE 10.1 and > Kanotix. However neither gives at hint as to the device I should use to > mount this unit. > > I think the info maybe hidden somewhere in /proc but that is a mysterious > place for me to navigate. > > As far as I know, my new IRiver has been converted to UMF format, if it > isn't > formatted would that be the reason it isn't fully recognised? > > Seems I forget as much as I am learning these days. > > Cheers > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 > Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 23 23:55:18 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C3BDC3.9050108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, >> the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to >> do a fairly massive key signing? > > I'd like to help if possible. I'm hardly an authority on the issue, but > I am an assurer for CAcert and would be happy to add anyone attending to > its WoT in addition to the usual signings. Being involved with CACert > allows you to get security certificates for domains and servers as well > as specific email addresses. Hey that'd be great, I've been meaning to learn about the various parts and forms of key/cert generation and signing. Elsewhere, Evan meet David, David meet Evan :) But really, what can we setup as a more permanent signing location/person? I mentioned to David that the cafe would be a suitable location -- David mentioned that he had also come up with the idea that he could function as a basic signer, this during his year of accidentally self-imposed censorship however. What's involved in setting something like this up? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 00:48:33 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:48:33 -0400 Subject: New USB device is what? In-Reply-To: <20060723202921.GG13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200607231126.13082.mervc@eol.ca> <20060723202921.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607232048.33828.mervc@eol.ca> On Sunday 23 July 2006 16:29, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 23, 2006 at 11:26:12AM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: . > > > > > > As far as I know, my new IRiver has been converted to UMF format, if it > > isn't formatted would that be the reason it isn't fully recognised? > > > > Seems I forget as much as I am learning these days. > > if it is switched to the usb storage type interface, then you should be > able to simply mount it as a disk, usually it should be either /dev/sda > or /dev/sda1 (depending on if it has partitions or not). The driver is > 'usb-storage' along with sd-mod (mod-sd?) and such. > > If it is not in the usb storage setting., then it realy won't work at > all, you will just see it detecting an unknown usb device. > > What does 'lsusb' show? > > -- Well I won't have to ask again, your answers are all written out in several places. Now for the red-face comment - After I posted the message I decided to recheck the unit and I learned that you can find about the driver that is installed. Me and my buddy failed in our attempts to change it to UMF so now to go back to his computer and try again. Explains why it isn't recognised as more than a USB device. SuSE reported the Make, Model and much more than Kanotix did. Thanks all -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 01:42:21 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:42:21 -0400 Subject: Size of Extended partition changed In-Reply-To: <20060723202456.GE13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200607202207.12301.mervc@eol.ca> <200607212101.14198.mervc@eol.ca> <20060723202456.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200607232142.22275.mervc@eol.ca> On Sunday 23 July 2006 16:24, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > cfdisk just shows the actual partitions, since it knows the extended > partition is just a wrapper around all the logical partitions. Just add > another logical partition and it should do the right thing in my > experience. > > -- Thanks Lennart, add my experience to yours, cfdisk is the smartest of all the partitioning tools. It knows that Free space is free and usable. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 01:47:54 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:47:54 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153705674.10793.566.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-23-07 at 08:26 -0700, Christopher Browne wrote: > I have added a page to the Wiki on this > ... > > Do we have someone who could speak with some authority on PGP, GPG, > the Web of Trust, and such, as a part of a meeting where we'd seek to > do a fairly massive key signing? My notes for a key signing at KWLUG are here. http://www.dyoh.com/?q=node/view/10 The key to organizing a large key signing is the USERS. There is nothing that you can do, if folks won't prepare their keys, and bring them to the signing. >From the user perspective, preparing a key is simple-simple. I've shown the steps, with examples on the link above. Many others have done the same on their sites, too. Then prepare your keys and carry a few with you all the time. This way you won't forget for the big Web of Trust Day. Making your GnuPG key cards is a piece of cake too. Go the fancy way, if you like, and have business cards made, with your key fingerprint information on the back. Or do it yourself by printing your own cards, ten-up, at home. Or save even more paper by printing 30-some strips on a page, like so: J. Random User User-WKM+fuMS0MswxACUbC37FdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Key fingerprint = A526 F9E3 D8C2 43D0 F4E9 9FF4 56D9 188B D6D1 B120 If interested users do all of this in advance, then the key exchange day is simple. 1)Meet, 2)Handshake, 3)Exchange key cards, 4)Consider if PhotoID is valid, 5)Compare photoID Photo to face, 6)Compare photoID name to key card name, 7)Initial their key info to remind yourself that you saw their ID, 8)Check that you've got your ID back, 9)Another hand shake and you are off to the next one. Three minutes, tops, if you stop to chat. Cheers, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 02:25:04 2006 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:25:04 -0400 Subject: hardware recommendation: 64-bit friendly 802.11G PCI card?? In-Reply-To: <1153705674.10793.566.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1153705674.10793.566.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44C58100.7090107@visible-assets.com> Hi everyone, Can anyone recommend (from personal experience) an 802.11G PCI network adapter that _definitely_ works in a 64-bit linux environment (i.e. native linux source / drivers). I purchased the TEW-423PI based on an earlier recommendation from the list. However, to my surprise, it was not actually supported natively in linux and only worked on 32 bit machines using ndiswrapper. My first instinct tells me to go with a card using the rt2500 chip (http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) since that seems to have actively maintained kernel source. A list of cards using this chip is at http://ralink.rapla.net . The cards that immediately jump out at me are D-Link DWL-G510 rev C1 Linksys WMP54G v4 out of several dozen devices. Has anyone on the list used one of the cards that appear on http://ralink.rapla.net with an AMD64 ? If so, can you recommend a card to buy, or maybe a card not to buy? Thanks a bunch, ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 03:43:28 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:43:28 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> Message-ID: <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Elsewhere, Evan meet David, David meet Evan :) Too late, already introduced. And Linuxcaffe is the home to the Drupal UG meetings. > But really, what can we setup as a more permanent signing location/person? It's my hope that the event that Christopher is suggesting does happen and, as I said, I'll do what I can to help. If we plan it enough in advance, we can get publicity in mainstream IT media as well as a number of internet event sites. My suggestion, to get the biggest "bang" for the event, would be to combine the mechanics of signing and assurance with optional education on the issue (some topics could be as basic as "what is a cert" or "what are the benefits of signing and how do you do it" and "who do you trust"). This complements the mundane mechanical bits of signing keys, creating certificates, assuring people and adding them to webs of trust. I believe that there is a large IT mainstream out there that is concerned about security, that is being sold overpriced (and deliberately obscured) bills of goods by Thawte and Verisign resellers. The knowledge that the software (such as GNUPG), the signings and even the certificates themselves can be had at no cost can be a very attractive draw that can bring new people to (and new awareness of) GTALUG and open source in general. If this event succeeds (by some TBD metric of success), I would suggest making this a recurring but not-too-frequent thing at Linuxcaffe. The only problem there is (at least from what I recall) it's difficult to do formal presentations there without getting in the way of regular clientele. Also, I'm hesitant to suggest ongoing plans until we can demonstrate that a single event can succeed. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 03:57:16 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:57:16 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C441E0.6080607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Elsewhere, Evan meet David, David meet Evan :) > > Too late, already introduced. And Linuxcaffe is the home to the Drupal > UG meetings. Yeah I made it out to a meet last month. I missed your NewTLUG talk. Too bad. I know the two of you are quite well acquainted, I suppose I was not very forthcoming on that point. I recall reading somewhere about compromising a gpg key through WoT tampering or something, I'd like to hear more or hear the entire idea debunked (I think it was a theoretical proposal that I read, many months back though). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 04:13:54 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:13:54 -0400 Subject: Contract RedHat Linux Consultant wanted Message-ID: (The following is being posted by me on behalf of a friend. Please direct ALL enquiries to him; email address is at the end of the mesage) We are Scalar Decisions, a high-growth, architect lead firm located in downtown Toronto. We deliver world class hardware, software and services to a variety of Canada's best companies both locally in the GTA and across the nation. We are currently expanding our RedHat Linux practice and are seeking qualified contract consultants to assist with product specific implementations on an as needed basis. Qualified candidates MUST hold a current RHCE designation and have reference-able customer experience with one or more of the following products: - RedHat Cluster Suite - RedHat GFS - RedHat Satellite Server - Oracle and/or Oracle RAC on Linux - JBoss If you qualify, please send your resume to rob.nourse-k0QVS7fUxwT3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Our apologies, but due to the volume of respondents only candidates meeting the selection criteria will be contacted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 05:23:30 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hardware recommendation: 64-bit friendly 802.11G PCI card?? In-Reply-To: <44C58100.7090107-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1153705674.10793.566.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44C58100.7090107@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Friedt | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) | id DB09F3ABE9; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:26:00 -0400 (EDT) | Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:25:04 -0400 Your clock seems to be fast by 24 hours. | Can anyone recommend (from personal experience) an 802.11G PCI network | adapter that _definitely_ works in a 64-bit linux environment (i.e. | native linux source / drivers). Only a few 892.11g chipmakers disclose enough information for Linux (and BSD) driver writers. In most cases, the drivers that work are for Mini-PCI cards (i.e. built-into-notebook cards) and PCcards (successor to PCMCIA). I have a Broadcom-based card built into my AMD-64 notebook. There is a very new driver for this and it isn't quite working yet. It is based on reverse engineering. I also have a PCcard for 802.11g that is based on one of the Prism chipsets. It used to work, but it didn't when I just tried it in FC5. I did not spend the time to figure out the problem. (For one thing, the BIOS does not set up the PCcard bus properly, so there is a "setpci" command that I need to issue before PCcards are recognized. I don't remember, but perhaps I need to install a firmware blob -- something that Red Hat does not distribute (for good reason)). | I purchased the TEW-423PI based on an earlier recommendation from the | list. However, to my surprise, it was not actually supported natively in | linux and only worked on 32 bit machines using ndiswrapper. There is a 64-bit ndiswrapper too. You need to combine it with a 64-bit Windows driver -- usually available if you look around. ndiswrapper has a couple of disadvantages. One is that WinXP allows a much larger stack than the Linux kernel, so not all drivers work. Another is that not all functions that Linux can use are provided by ndis drivers. I realize that I'm not answering your question. The web does have stuff about Linux-supported chipsets. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 11:08:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:08:41 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C441E0.6080607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> Message-ID: <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I believe that there is a large IT mainstream out there that is > concerned about security, that is being sold overpriced (and > deliberately obscured) bills of goods by Thawte and Verisign resellers. > The knowledge that the software (such as GNUPG), the signings and even > the certificates themselves can be had at no cost can be a very > attractive draw that can bring new people to (and new awareness of) > GTALUG and open source in general. Thawte has free personal email certificates. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 13:59:19 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:59:19 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C4AA39.7020706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44C4D237.4090301@telly.org> James Knott wrote: >>I believe that there is a large IT mainstream out there that is >>concerned about security, that is being sold overpriced (and >>deliberately obscured) bills of goods by Thawte and Verisign resellers. >>The knowledge that the software (such as GNUPG), the signings and even >>the certificates themselves can be had at no cost can be a very >>attractive draw that can bring new people to (and new awareness of) >>GTALUG and open source in general. >> >> > >Thawte has free personal email certificates. > > I'm also referring to the certificates used for servers and code-signing. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 15:10:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:10:17 -0400 Subject: hardware recommendation: 64-bit friendly 802.11G PCI card?? In-Reply-To: <44C58100.7090107-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1153705674.10793.566.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44C58100.7090107@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20060724151017.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 24, 2006 at 10:25:04PM -0400, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Can anyone recommend (from personal experience) an 802.11G PCI network > adapter that _definitely_ works in a 64-bit linux environment (i.e. > native linux source / drivers). > > I purchased the TEW-423PI based on an earlier recommendation from the > list. However, to my surprise, it was not actually supported natively in > linux and only worked on 32 bit machines using ndiswrapper. > > My first instinct tells me to go with a card using the rt2500 chip > (http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) since that > seems to have actively maintained kernel source. > > A list of cards using this chip is at http://ralink.rapla.net . The > cards that immediately jump out at me are > > D-Link DWL-G510 rev C1 > Linksys WMP54G v4 > > out of several dozen devices. > > Has anyone on the list used one of the cards that appear on > http://ralink.rapla.net with an AMD64 ? If so, can you recommend a card > to buy, or maybe a card not to buy? I was playing with a dlink dwl-g650 rev c1 yesterday. ubuntu detected it as ath0, using the atheros driver. I wonder if they still make/sell that model. It is in a friends laptop, and I think she has had it for a couple of years now. For what it is worth, the fsf recommends ralink based cards: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 15:39:18 2006 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:39:18 -0400 Subject: Gates and Open SourceH Message-ID: <200607241139.18795.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> An interesting read. http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2006/07/20/gates_open_source/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 16:06:00 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:06:00 -0400 Subject: US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607240906r68064c86pddbbddda5d32511e@mail.gmail.com> >From IT World Canada: US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool Move criticized as a concession to proprietary technology vendors By: Jaikumar Vijayan Computerworld (US online) (24 Jul 2006) "A joint U.S. and Canadian organization that certifies encryption tools for use by federal government agencies has suspended its validation of OpenSSL cryptographic technology for the second time in less than six months. The decision means that government agencies cannot purchase the open-source tool for the time being, although those that have already done so will still be allowed to use it. OpenSSL is an open-source implementation of the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) and Transport Layer security protocols. It is widely used to encrypt and decrypt data on the Internet." Full story at: http://tinyurl.com/fdgho http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/Daily-News/b6cfd84f-8646-4318-b231-1e80ca29ef61.html -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 16:21:36 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:21:36 -0400 Subject: US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0607240906r68064c86pddbbddda5d32511e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607240906r68064c86pddbbddda5d32511e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C4F390.7040107@telly.org> Scott Elcomb wrote: > US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool > Move criticized as a concession to proprietary technology vendors > > By: Jaikumar Vijayan > Computerworld (US online) (24 Jul 2006) > > "A joint U.S. and Canadian organization that certifies encryption > tools for use by federal government agencies has suspended its > validation of OpenSSL cryptographic technology for the second time in > less than six months. Some news travels slowly. The suspension was in error, and the validation has since been un-revoked: http://oss-institute.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=166 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 16:27:54 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:27:54 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C4AA39.7020706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44C4F50A.4010601@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I believe that there is a large IT mainstream out there that is >> concerned about security, that is being sold overpriced (and >> deliberately obscured) bills of goods by Thawte and Verisign resellers. >> The knowledge that the software (such as GNUPG), the signings and even >> the certificates themselves can be had at no cost can be a very >> attractive draw that can bring new people to (and new awareness of) >> GTALUG and open source in general. > > Thawte has free personal email certificates. I think Evan's thought is that Thawte are selling something that is freely and openly available by other means. Sure you can use Thawte for your email, but why not use pgp and do it yourself? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFExPUK8623zs1LFmYRAmxGAJ9rzUGCZ5hOlkaMUBPuSDXPk3MnzACcCjGl DHgAwjHHog+ja38Nkxkk4sA= =FKbB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 16:51:05 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:51:05 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C4F50A.4010601-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> <44C4F50A.4010601@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44C4FA79.6050604@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: >I think Evan's thought is that Thawte are selling something that is freely and openly available by other means. > If you want to get philosophical, it gets even deeper than that. The whole concept of a web of trust is something that an organized community should be better able to provide than a single commercial entity. Why should someone trust Thawte or Verisign? Simply because they exist to be trusted? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 19:49:52 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool In-Reply-To: <44C4F390.7040107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607240906r68064c86pddbbddda5d32511e@mail.gmail.com> <44C4F390.7040107@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The suspension was in error, and the validation has since been un-revoked: > http://oss-institute.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=166 The page suggests OpenSSL is now considered "not available" which means that those using it can continue to use it while new govt agencies cannot procure it. This is consistent with the IT World Canada article and others. What I find concerning is the focus on auditing code line by line. Government and business in general are doing a very poor job of keeping up with the basics of security[1]. They should sort out the basic stuff before worrying about auditing all the code they use. Talk about ignoring the basic stuff to focus on the hard stuff. For a lot of organisations: - Physical security is poor - Basic account management is not done (Eg, locking an a/c when a staff member leaves). - Rsh use continues to be common - Security patch management is patchy (sic) - Oh the list goes on Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 24 19:53:18 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:53:18 -0400 Subject: new (local) open source project started Message-ID: <200607241553.19163.ican@netrover.com> I have started a brand new open source project to take the SIMPL toolkit (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl) into an area that I have some experience with: ? ?Access Control systems for buildings. This new project has a home at: ????????https://sourceforge.net/project/opndrs ????????http://users.netrover.com/~ican/opndrs This project will use an LGPL'd framework coupled with a user licencable plugin architecture. ? ? The business logic will be cast as a finite statemachine. Although I'm focusing the initial effort on access control systems for buildings, ?I believe that the framework will be expandable to include a wider class of building automation software. I'm in the process of uploading some seed code written in C to get this thing started. ? ? The business logic in this seed code will be for a simple door which can be closed-locked, closed-unlocked, open, forced open or held open. We welcome any programmers with C, Python or Tcl/Tk experience who want some interesting code to fiddle with. ? ? ?Even programmers with limited experience with these languages but who simply want to gain some more are welcome. ? ? There is lots of work to do. ? ?Worst case is we'll have some fun writing code for an interesting class of problems. ? ?Best case we'll evolve a Sugar CRM type following and get paid to customize (write plugins) for this application. If you are interested just subscribe yourself to the opndrs mailing list and we'll take it from there. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 00:33:43 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:33:43 -0400 Subject: US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool In-Reply-To: <44C4F390.7040107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607240906r68064c86pddbbddda5d32511e@mail.gmail.com> <44C4F390.7040107@telly.org> Message-ID: <44C566E7.6050105@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > >> US-Canadian body suspends certification of open-source encryption tool >> Move criticized as a concession to proprietary technology vendors >> >> By: Jaikumar Vijayan >> Computerworld (US online) (24 Jul 2006) >> >> "A joint U.S. and Canadian organization that certifies encryption >> tools for use by federal government agencies has suspended its >> validation of OpenSSL cryptographic technology for the second time in >> less than six months. > > > Some news travels slowly. > > The suspension was in error, and the validation has since been un-revoked: > http://oss-institute.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=166 But it's still suspended. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 00:40:00 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:40:00 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C4F50A.4010601-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> <44C4F50A.4010601@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <44C56860.7080608@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: >>> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>>> I believe that there is a large IT mainstream out there that is >>>> concerned about security, that is being sold overpriced (and >>>> deliberately obscured) bills of goods by Thawte and Verisign resellers. >>>> The knowledge that the software (such as GNUPG), the signings and even >>>> the certificates themselves can be had at no cost can be a very >>>> attractive draw that can bring new people to (and new awareness of) >>>> GTALUG and open source in general. >>> Thawte has free personal email certificates. > > I think Evan's thought is that Thawte are selling something that is > freely and openly available by other means. Sure you can use Thawte for > your email, but why not use pgp and do it yourself? PGP is not as well supported by business as X.509 certificates. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 00:45:04 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:45:04 -0400 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C4FA79.6050604-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> <44C4AA39.7020706@rogers.com> <44C4F50A.4010601@utoronto.ca> <44C4FA79.6050604@telly.org> Message-ID: <44C56990.6050401@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> I think Evan's thought is that Thawte are selling something that is >> freely and openly available by other means. >> > If you want to get philosophical, it gets even deeper than that. > > The whole concept of a web of trust is something that an organized > community should be better able to provide than a single commercial entity. > > Why should someone trust Thawte or Verisign? Simply because they exist > to be trusted? > With the free Thawte certificates, you get verified by real live warm bodies. ;-) You can get others, with sufficient points to do it, or under some circumstances get a lawyer, accountant, bank manager etc., to do it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 02:10:20 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:10:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: m$ reinvents Knoppix, markets it successfully as own idea Message-ID: And the supermarket did the rebranding, embracing, and extending thing yet one more time. Applause. Clap clap clap. http://www.apcstart.com/site/jbannan/2006/07/759/build-your-own-vista-install-dvd Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 03:03:29 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 23:03:29 -0400 Subject: m$ reinvents Knoppix, markets it successfully as own idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/24/06, Peter wrote: > > And the supermarket did the rebranding, embracing, and extending thing > yet one more time. Applause. Clap clap clap. It seems they are using some sort of "compression" and actually putting a WHOLE OPERATING SYSTEM on a single DVD ! There's even some scheme to do "hardware recognition" of sorts, presuming you've got compatible hardware and the drivers around somewhere (maybe on an install CD ? Check the drawers, you wouldn't have thrown it out) well ! that really changes the landscape, doesn't it ? ;-) -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 15:10:34 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:10:34 -0400 Subject: Denying commands in sudoers Message-ID: <20060725151034.GA29021@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Is it possible to configure sudoers to allow all commands except a select few? I want allow all commands with sudo except the editing of the suders files, and any attempts to become root (su, su -, su root). -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 15:37:15 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:37:15 -0400 Subject: Denying commands in sudoers In-Reply-To: <20060725151034.GA29021-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060725151034.GA29021@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060725153715.GB29021@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Solved my own problem: # Cmnd alias specification Cmnd_Alias DENY_CMD = /bin/su root, /bin/su - root nhwatson ALL = ALL, !DENY_CMD Of course this is not secure. There are many ways for me to still become root. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 25 20:29:36 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:29:36 -0400 Subject: Denying commands in sudoers In-Reply-To: <20060725151034.GA29021-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060725151034.GA29021@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060725202936.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:10:34AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Is it possible to configure sudoers to allow all commands except a > select few? I want allow all commands with sudo except the editing of > the suders files, and any attempts to become root (su, su -, su root). Bad idea. There are thousands of ways to become root if you can execute commands as root. sudo vim :sh id Hmm.. What you think you want, can not be done. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 02:15:00 2006 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:15:00 +1000 Subject: GPG Key Signing In-Reply-To: <44C441E0.6080607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C3BDC3.9050108@telly.org> <44C441E0.6080607@telly.org> Message-ID: <1153880100.9528.26.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> On Sun, 2006-07-23 at 23:43 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > My suggestion, to get the biggest "bang" for the event, would be to > combine the mechanics of signing and assurance with optional education > on the issue ... the mundane mechanical bits of signing keys ... As ever, the problem with such events is that the degenerate into incoherency as people stumble about not knowing they are next, flash their credit cards up on screen, etc - which all leads to something of great value turning into mush. Usually these things are so painful that people would rather just go to the pub instead - especially at the end of a long day; if earlier, they are momentum killers. As far as education goes, it's really worth helping people get through the "what next" part of the learning curve. Most keysigning parties have instruction documents that approximate the complexity required to launch a Saturn V rocket. Not exactly appealing. It can be made comprehensible without violating the completeness security requires. ++ Of late, I've found myself turning more to one- or two-on-one keysignings - we both just whip our laptops out, get the other person's key off the net in real time, cross verify fingerprints, cross verify IDs, sign, then upload back to server. On the spot. Done. Granted this reduces the network effects but on the other hand it does get them processed faster than the ziplock bag of fingerprints that goes back three conferences... ++ Sorry to have missed you all in Toronto last week, but TLUG had the temerity not to have your meetings while I was there. Hrmph :) AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Managing Director Toronto relay: (416) 848 6072 http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Management Consultants specializing in strategy, organizational architecture, procedures to survive change, and performance hardening for the people and systems behind the mission critical enterprise. Sydney New York Toronto London -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 02:42:13 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) Message-ID: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Last week I got an e-mail from the "Social Tech Brewing Co." who are running two lectures next week: - Women in IT (Aug 3). - Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) Details and how to sign up for the "Women in IT" event can be seen at: socialtechbrewing.org . I have forwarded info. about this on to all the Toronto area women involved in IT that I know, 10 women in all, a too short list :-( . I have signed up for the "Women in IT" event even though I am still attempting to work out the question "Where is a story here that I can write about (and sell :-) )?". We all know women are seriously under represented in a number of science / technology fields (not just IT) and saying "Isn't that quite sad, something really ought to be done at some point." doesn't sound like the sort of story I would want to write... Thoughts? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 03:34:53 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:34:53 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060726024213.6455.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > Last week I got an e-mail from the "Social Tech > Brewing Co." who are running two lectures next week: > > - Women in IT (Aug 3). > - Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) > > Details and how to sign up for the "Women in IT" event > can be seen at: socialtechbrewing.org . I have > forwarded info. about this on to all the Toronto area > women involved in IT that I know, 10 women in all, a > too short list :-( . > > I have signed up for the "Women in IT" event even > though I am still attempting to work out the question > "Where is a story here that I can write about (and > sell :-) )?". We all know women are seriously under > represented in a number of science / technology > fields (not just IT) and saying "Isn't that quite sad, > something really ought to be done at some point." > doesn't sound like the sort of story I would want to > write... Surely those 10 women have something to say on the matter? It strikes me that, while your position sounds like it mightn't be the most enviable, you've already got a great start, having got past the "Isn't that quite sad, something really ought to be done at some point" point. You no doubt heard about the stir caused in the Australian press regarding http://www.itgoddess.info ? Perhaps contacting some of those women involved would provide good material and also let them get some (more?) press outside Australia? Controversy sells, so turn that frown upside down :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:02:45 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:02:45 -0400 Subject: MSN search vs. Google Message-ID: Out of gross curiosity, and prompted by recent news stories that indicated MSNs newly expressed disdain for Firefox, I went and gave the MSN search thingie a try; linux 1-10 of 17,265 containing linux (0.02 seconds) mostly articles on the REAL TCO and methods of eradicating it. funny ! Google, OTOH Results 91 - 100 of about 1,330,000,000 for linux [definition]. (0.05 seconds) starting with linux.org hmmm.. it took an extra three microseconds to find over 1.3 billion hits that MSN overlooked.. I won't be falling all over myself to switch, anytime soon. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:06:32 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:06:32 -0400 Subject: linuxs 15th birthday Message-ID: OK, really, when is it ? We'be been kicking around Aug25th, as a date for Linux in the Park, but yesterday somebody suggested that the actual date was in September. I could actually do the research OR throw the question into the snakepit... ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:11:38 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:11:38 -0400 Subject: MSN search vs. Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153923098.10793.693.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-26-07 at 10:02 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Out of gross curiosity, and prompted by recent news stories that > indicated MSNs newly expressed disdain for Firefox, I went and gave > the MSN search thingie a try; > > linux > > 1-10 of 17,265 containing linux (0.02 seconds) > mostly articles on the REAL TCO and methods of eradicating it. > funny ! > > Google, OTOH > Results 91 - 100 of about 1,330,000,000 for linux [definition]. (0.05 seconds) > starting with linux.org > > hmmm.. it took an extra three microseconds to find over 1.3 billion > hits that MSN overlooked.. Sadly, MSN search (first time I've used it by the way) comes up short when searching for "criminal monopoly" MSN Page 1 of 458,036 results containing criminal monopoly (0.04 seconds) Google Results 1 - 10 of about 5,660,000 for criminal monopoly. (0.14 seconds) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:13:51 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:13:51 -0400 Subject: linuxs 15th birthday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060726141351.GA5960@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:06:32AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >I could actually do the research OR throw the question into the snakepit... We have a snakepit! I have *got* to start getting to more meetings! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:25:58 2006 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:25:58 -0400 Subject: government-friendly events calendar Message-ID: <20060726142558.GA26812@xtrinsic.com> Hey folks, Does anyone know of a F/LOSS web-based package for tracking "government" meetings? I need something with government speaking for: - setting agendas - posting minutes - etc? with a calendar based application. I know that it's something that Drupal could handle no problem (or about a billion other web apps for that matter)...but I need something that's already been "translated" into government. Ideas? Suggestions? Cattle for auction? regards, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 14:48:25 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Gigabit NIC Message-ID: <22862.72.38.22.170.1153925305.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Can any of you recommend a Gigabit NIC that will work easily with multiple versions of linux? I'd like to limit the time spent mucking about with drivers. I'm currently using a mix of WhiteBox EL4, CentOS EL4, Fedora Core 4, Fedora Core 5 and Ubuntu 6.06. I've been looking at the D-Link - DGE-530T but mostly because of the price point. Thanks, Stephen -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 15:35:51 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:35:51 -0400 Subject: Linux Gigabit NIC In-Reply-To: <22862.72.38.22.170.1153925305.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <22862.72.38.22.170.1153925305.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <20060726153551.GA7799@wp.magstar.net> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:48:25AM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Can any of you recommend a Gigabit NIC that will work easily with multiple > versions of linux? I'd like to limit the time spent mucking about with > drivers. I'm currently using a mix of WhiteBox EL4, CentOS EL4, Fedora > Core 4, Fedora Core 5 and Ubuntu 6.06. > > I've been looking at the D-Link - DGE-530T but mostly because of the price > point. The best way is to look at kernel source, -> Device Drivers -> Network device support -> Ethernet (1000 Mbit) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 15:55:04 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:55:04 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060726024213.6455.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C79058.6080403@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Colin McGregor wrote: > I have signed up for the "Women in IT" event even > though I am still attempting to work out the question > "Where is a story here that I can write about (and > sell :-) )?". We all know women are seriously under > represented in a number of science / technology > fields (not just IT) and saying "Isn't that quite sad, > something really ought to be done at some point." > doesn't sound like the sort of story I would want to > write... > > Thoughts? Quite sad is rather an understatement. I can't begin to enumerate our loss (from both the practical technical stance and the less tangible culture stance) from the failure to include the ideas and sensibilities of over half the population (and more, if you consider other groups such as blacks, who are also significantly under-represented) from the design and implementation of the devices which will mold our world. As a member of the best represented group in the industry (white, university educated, male) I have no idea what kinds of interesting and different thoughts women and other under-represented groups might bring to a design discussion. There's actually a substantial amount of feminist literature on the topic. I hope you've done some background reading. If you haven't then you might want to start with the canonical book on the topic: "Women in Computer Science; Bridging the Digital Divide" circa 1994 (I'm going from memory here so I might have the title slightly wrong), which documents the results of a study performed across the entire education system. Naturally, the only reason I really care about this topic is because I work in tech and would prefer a work environment populated with sexy ladies who understand the inherent awesomeness of AMD's hypertransport bus and the beauty of a well designed algorithm. Drew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEx5BYgfzn5SevSpoRAjqaAJ4+fG7atVL6q8AYMYabaEdpVddbmgCeI59b U3uP7cAFiKBVkouMs7kJqfM= =Oop3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 16:30:45 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:30:45 -0400 Subject: Chromatic on Video Drivers - Opinion Message-ID: <20060726163045.GA6361@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Has anyone else read this? http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2006/07/appeasement_isnt_working.html I have been thinking about this very topic recently, when investigating a new video card with DVI, and I was interested in gathering other opinions. The general premise is that there are very, very few choices of video cards that have full, free (as in FLOSS) 3D support. The article is a call to arms to write to video card manufacturers and make them understand that they are losing sales because they are not publishing their specs so that the OS community can develop drivers. His point is that by running binary blobs for video support we compromise our systems and (possibly) our ethics. I tend to agree, but I don't really want to run an Intel CPU, so using an on-board Intel video card is not an option I am excited about. Does anyone else have an opinion on a) the article or b) which DVI-enabled video card with 3D acceleration you would buy if you were in the market? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 16:55:04 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:55:04 -0400 Subject: Chromatic on Video Drivers - Opinion In-Reply-To: <20060726163045.GA6361-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726163045.GA6361@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On the article... great, another person that hasn't heard of patents and intellectual property. Most of OpenGL (and GLX) is covered under patents, intellectual property laws, and possibly trade secrets. As an aside, I'll note that a lot of said patents and IP has been transferred by SGI to Microsoft over the years. You can not get a full open source implementation of OpenGL and GLX that is hardware accelerated (emphasis on that) and that uses extensions, without violating someone's IP. For example, see the issues with the GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc call. Just about every game out there made in the last few years needs S3TC to work, and you'll only get that from a closed source, binary driver like nVidia's. (Or ATI's, these days.) It is not the video card manufacturer's choice whether to open source a driver or not; they are not permitted by their licensing terms, in order to get that DirectX and OpenGL certification. (And no, not getting the cert, but implementing said calls and releasing an open source driver is NOT the solution here; they'll be hung out to try, after having unspeakable things done to them by teams of lawyers.) As for part b), nVidia is the only real choice. I've been using nVidia cards for many years now, and their drivers are quite excellent. (Go full hardware acceleration on FreeBSD and Solaris 10!) Sure, ATI have cleaned up their act lately, but it's just not enough by now. Plus they've soured a fair amount of people with their initial driver releases, some of which were spectacular failures, depending on what hardware/Kernel you ran. -- Vlad On 7/26/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Has anyone else read this? > > http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2006/07/appeasement_isnt_working.html > > I have been thinking about this very topic recently, when investigating a > new video card with DVI, and I was interested in gathering other > opinions. The general premise is that there are very, very few choices > of video cards that have full, free (as in FLOSS) 3D support. The > article is a call to arms to write to video card manufacturers and make > them understand that they are losing sales because they are not > publishing their specs so that the OS community can develop drivers. > > His point is that by running binary blobs for video support we > compromise our systems and (possibly) our ethics. I tend to agree, but > I don't really want to run an Intel CPU, so using an on-board Intel > video card is not an option I am excited about. > > Does anyone else have an opinion on a) the article or b) which > DVI-enabled video card with 3D acceleration you would buy if you were in > the market? > -- > > yours, > > William > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFEx5i1HQtmiuz+KT8RAgixAJ9OZ8c8kVD4M8Xj/mTop4JfuvBUNwCcDxTr > 6brnlzcDrBwQKWqszbu/D2M= > =0f01 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 17:32:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:32:57 -0400 Subject: Linux Gigabit NIC In-Reply-To: <22862.72.38.22.170.1153925305.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <22862.72.38.22.170.1153925305.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <20060726173257.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:48:25AM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Can any of you recommend a Gigabit NIC that will work easily with multiple > versions of linux? I'd like to limit the time spent mucking about with > drivers. I'm currently using a mix of WhiteBox EL4, CentOS EL4, Fedora > Core 4, Fedora Core 5 and Ubuntu 6.06. > > I've been looking at the D-Link - DGE-530T but mostly because of the price > point. That one should work well. It uses the marvel yukon / sysconnect chip, which is supported by the sk98lin/skge driver in linux. I have mainly used the same chip onboard, but never had a problem in the last 2 years of using it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 19:44:55 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:44:55 -0400 Subject: MSN search vs. Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44C7C637.6020709@georgetown.wehave.net> David J Patrick wrote: > linux > > 1-10 of 17,265 containing linux (0.02 seconds) > mostly articles on the REAL TCO and methods of eradicating it. > funny ! Presumably you mean http://search.msn.com/ - my search yielded 96M results, not bad and the results looked quite relevant. Not that I'll be switching to MSN Search anytime soon either ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 20:44:55 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:44:55 -0400 Subject: Open Source song - "Write Code With You" Message-ID: <99a6c38f0607261344s2ba633abrb43ef72a0de2569a@mail.gmail.com> A friend came up with some song lyrics a couple weeks ago. We'd been talking about Linux, Open Source, and Atomic OS over some drinks. He picked up a guitar and went to town. Anyway, we produced a quick recording last night on a laptop running Ubuntu (thx Colin!) It's not a professional job by any means, but we'd like to see what people think. http://atomos.sourceforge.net/#%5B%5BWrite%20Code%20With%20You%5D%5D - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://w3.avidus.ca/ http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 22:24:45 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:45 -0400 Subject: linuxs 15th birthday In-Reply-To: ; from davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:06:32AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20060726182445.A27372@diamond.ss.org> According to the following website, http://www.linux-aktivaattori.fi/projects/15_year_linux_birthday/ The actual date is September 15th. This sounds right since I remember hearing about it in University first term 1991. Bill On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:06:32AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > OK, really, when is it ? > We'be been kicking around Aug25th, as a date for Linux in the Park, > but yesterday somebody suggested that the actual date was in > September. > > I could actually do the research OR throw the question into the snakepit... > ;-) > > djp > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 22:36:43 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:36:43 -0400 Subject: partition headaches Message-ID: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I recently reinstalled Fedora (went from 3 to 5) . Rather than doing an upgrade I did a complete reinstall. Everything went well till I decided to create a FAT32 partition on my Windows partition . I dual boot this machine. I was using Partition Magic while trying to create the FAT32 partition. Next time I booted using Grub into my Windows partition Windows wouldn't load. My files are still there and I can mount them using ntfsmount in linux but can't start windows. When I load the windows systems CD that came with my laptop I can't start Windows either. I really don't want to wipe my nice new FC5 to reload Windows. Any thoughts what I can do to get Windows back? Here is the output of fdisk -l ? Thanks. jim Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 3951 7296 26876713+ 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/hda2 1 13 104391 83 Linux /dev/hda3 14 3950 31623952+ 8e Linux LVM Partition table entries are not in disk order Disk /dev/dm-0: 31.2 GB, 31272730624 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 3802 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk /dev/dm-0 doesn't contain a valid partition table Disk /dev/dm-1: 1073 MB, 1073741824 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 130 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk /dev/dm-1 doesn't contain a valid partition table -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 22:59:21 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:59:21 -0400 Subject: linuxs 15th birthday In-Reply-To: <20060726182445.A27372-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726182445.A27372@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > According to the following website, > > http://www.linux-aktivaattori.fi/projects/15_year_linux_birthday/ > > The actual date is September 15th. This sounds right since I remember hearing about it in University first term 1991. > > Bill I guess that's the thing, do we work with the announcement or the first source release? Linus posted his message the 25th of August, a date that would likely be of greater interest for those who have time off in the summer, and lesser interest for exactly that reason. The 15th would mean two events within 3 days as the 12th is the second Tuesday in Sept. -- this again could go both ways, being convenient or dilutive depending on who you ask. Granted without any code Linux could hardly have been said to exist in the wild before the 15th of September, but OTO, by sheer numbers: http://www.google.ca/search?q=september+15+1991+linux 1,170,000 http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=august+25+1991+linux 1,120,000 That's a difference of about 4% making the first somewhat more meaningful, but not necessarily statistically significant. Also, when you read the results for each respective search the second query is far more consistent in the quality and overlap of the first few pages of results. With this in mind then, how about having two events? Colin mentioned a mass-install, Evan mentioned a key-signing, I mentioned free screening of Revolution OS and other assorted FLOSS documentaries. It would be great to have all events in one weekend or afternoon. I beg to differ on the being dilutive point as we have a month less a day to prepare for the 25th and could easily get things organized before then. David? As your space will likely be imposed upon to no small degree, what are your thoughts? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 26 23:08:10 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:08:10 -0400 Subject: linuxs 15th birthday In-Reply-To: References: <20060726182445.A27372@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: Jamon Camisso wrote: > With this in mind then, how about having two events? Colin mentioned a > mass-install, Evan mentioned a key-signing, I mentioned free screening > of Revolution OS and other assorted FLOSS documentaries. It would be > great to have all events in one weekend or afternoon. I beg to differ on > the being dilutive point as we have a month less a day to prepare for > the 25th and could easily get things organized before then. er... Christopher mentioned the keysigning, my mistake. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 02:34:45 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:34:45 -0400 Subject: Linux jobs in Markham (that aren't IBM) Message-ID: <44C82645.3020001@telly.org> Hey all, I was alerted by a friend that a company is relocating some Linux software development jobs from Montreal to Markham. I am just passing the information along. Since people I talk to are always wondering about how to make money from their Linux skills, this seems like one reasonable path. If interested, check out http://www.nitix.com/company/cm_employment.php - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 03:41:39 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:41:39 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C79058.6080403-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C79058.6080403@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: This reminds me of a time where I showed up on the first day of my 3rd year 'X Window Programming" class in university to find the whole room full with very good looking (read HOT) women. The other comp sci geeks and I thought we'd died and gone to heaven, until someone came in and shouted "Everyone here for English 1A1; there's been a room conflict; we're down the hall". *sigh* pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 06:22:52 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Interlug) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:22:52 -0400 Subject: Open Source song - "Write Code With You" In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0607261344s2ba633abrb43ef72a0de2569a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607261344s2ba633abrb43ef72a0de2569a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1153981372.10793.732.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-26-07 at 16:44 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Anyway, we produced a quick recording last night on a laptop running > Ubuntu (thx Colin!) It's not a professional job by any means, but > we'd like to see what people think. Bravo. Thank you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 12:09:20 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source song - "Write Code With You" In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0607261344s2ba633abrb43ef72a0de2569a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0607261344s2ba633abrb43ef72a0de2569a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060727120921.28835.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I downloaded the song, cute fun. Thanks. --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > A friend came up with some song lyrics a couple > weeks ago. We'd been > talking about Linux, Open Source, and Atomic OS over > some drinks. He > picked up a guitar and went to town. > > Anyway, we produced a quick recording last night on > a laptop running > Ubuntu (thx Colin!) It's not a professional job by > any means, but > we'd like to see what people think. > > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/#%5B%5BWrite%20Code%20With%20You%5D%5D > > - Scott. > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://w3.avidus.ca/ > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > > "In matters of style, swim with the current; in > matters of principle, > stand like a rock." > > - Thomas Jefferson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 13:21:45 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:21:45 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C79058.6080403-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>; from ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org on Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 11:55:04AM -0400 References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C79058.6080403@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20060727092145.B27372@diamond.ss.org> > > Naturally, the only reason I really care about this topic is because I > work in tech and would prefer a work environment populated with sexy > ladies who understand the inherent awesomeness of AMD's hypertransport > bus and the beauty of a well designed algorithm. > I was working in the production main frame world for a spell, and all the woman are their. In fact in a group of over 50 people I was one of seven guys. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 13:35:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:35:21 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <1153953403.6644.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 06:36:43PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > Hi, I recently reinstalled Fedora (went from 3 to 5) . Rather than doing > an upgrade I did a complete reinstall. Everything went well till I > decided to create a FAT32 partition on my Windows partition . I dual > boot this machine. I was using Partition Magic while trying to create > the FAT32 partition. Next time I booted using Grub into my Windows > partition Windows wouldn't load. My files are still there and I can > mount them using ntfsmount in linux but can't start windows. When I load > the windows systems CD that came with my laptop I can't start Windows > either. I really don't want to wipe my nice new FC5 to reload Windows. > Any thoughts what I can do to get Windows back? Here is the output of > fdisk -l ? Thanks. > > jim > > > Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/hda1 * 3951 7296 26876713+ 7 HPFS/NTFS > /dev/hda2 1 13 104391 83 Linux > /dev/hda3 14 3950 31623952+ 8e Linux LVM > > Partition table entries are not in disk order > > Disk /dev/dm-0: 31.2 GB, 31272730624 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 3802 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Disk /dev/dm-0 doesn't contain a valid partition table > > Disk /dev/dm-1: 1073 MB, 1073741824 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 130 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Disk /dev/dm-1 doesn't contain a valid partition table I don't see ANY FAT32 partitions anywhere. I only see an NTFS. What exactly did you do in partition magic? Your partitions are not in disk order. Windows HATES that in my experience. It may in fact be the cause of the problem. After all if windows originally was the first partition, then it's boot loader will have something like disk(0)part(0) or something similar in the boot.ini, while if you moved it and put other partitions in front, not NTFS is technically the 3rd partition on the disk, and should have boot.ini changed to disk(0)part(2). Best advice is to NEVER move the first windows partition, it should always be the first partition on the boot drive if you want windows to work reliably. You can work around it, but it is generally more fragile. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 13:45:34 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:45:34 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C79058.6080403-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C79058.6080403@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <44C8C37E.6000609@telly.org> Andrew Hammond wrote: >Naturally, the only reason I really care about this topic is because I >work in tech and would prefer a work environment populated with sexy >ladies who understand the inherent awesomeness of AMD's hypertransport >bus and the beauty of a well designed algorithm. > > One of the people attending the Thursday conference is my daughter. (She doesn't need any warning -- she saw what it was like at university....) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 14:01:39 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:01:39 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <20060727133521.GK13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 09:35 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes > > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders > > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > > > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > > /dev/hda1 * 3951 7296 26876713+ 7 HPFS/NTFS > > /dev/hda2 1 13 104391 83 Linux > > /dev/hda3 14 3950 31623952+ 8e Linux LVM > > > > Partition table entries are not in disk order > After all if windows originally was the first partition, then it's boot > loader will have something like disk(0)part(0) or something similar in > the boot.ini, while if you moved it and put other partitions in front, > not NTFS is technically the 3rd partition on the disk, and should have > boot.ini changed to disk(0)part(2). Best advice is to NEVER move the > first windows partition, it should always be the first partition on the > boot drive if you want windows to work reliably. You can work around > it, but it is generally more fragile. You should be able to re-write the partitions in correct order using fdisk. It would involve the scary task of deleting the partitions and re-adding them with the same start, end, and type values. I've done this in presentations to demystify partition tables. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 14:26:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <1154008899.21349.107.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:01:39AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > You should be able to re-write the partitions in correct order using > fdisk. It would involve the scary task of deleting the partitions and > re-adding them with the same start, end, and type values. I've done this > in presentations to demystify partition tables. That still doesn't solve the fact NTFS is now partition 3 while boot.ini probably thinks it should be partition 1. Assuming that is the problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 14:38:31 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:38:31 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727092145.B27372-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060726024213.6455.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C79058.6080403@ca.afilias.info> <20060727092145.B27372@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20060727143831.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:21:45AM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I was working in the production main frame world for a spell, and all > the woman are their. In fact in a group of over 50 people I was one of > seven guys. I suspect the mainframe world wants perfect code written to well defined specs following set down code styles. That probably suits the personality of a lot of women better than a lot of other IT jobs. In a lot of IT jobs, the person who is the loudest or has the most dominant personality gets to make the decisions, which almost always means it is a man that is making the decisisions. It also intimidates a lot of people, and probably women more than men on average. My wife used to work for the transport automation division of alcatel (they make systems that run trains/subways and the signaling and switching for them, usually for fully automated setups), and the first group she was in was 90% women. Other groups were the complete opposite. It very much depended on the type of work that the group was doing. She certainly found that some groups had some very dominant men working in them, and very quickly had no women in the group at all. There are some women who would like such an environment, but I haven't met very many. I think many of those that do like it tend to aim for management instead. If a field is very competitive and requires being very outgoing and dominating to get noticed and listened to, it will have a lot less women in it than a field where working together rather than competing is desired. If you want more women in IT, you really have to change the environment, which means you have to change the type of men that work in that environment. It isn't easy. In places where the environment is more cooperative, you often have a lot of women working in IT. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 14:45:41 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:45:41 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <20060727142609.GL13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 10:26 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:01:39AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > You should be able to re-write the partitions in correct order using > > fdisk. It would involve the scary task of deleting the partitions and > > re-adding them with the same start, end, and type values. I've done this > > in presentations to demystify partition tables. > > That still doesn't solve the fact NTFS is now partition 3 while boot.ini > probably thinks it should be partition 1. Assuming that is the problem. What I was getting at was that you can re-order your partitions in fdisk manually. Once you've deleted all the partitions make the NTFS partition first followed by the Linux ones. That will make it partition 1. Just make sure that the start, end and type match. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 14:59:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:59:12 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <1154011541.21349.126.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:45:41AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > What I was getting at was that you can re-order your partitions in fdisk > manually. Once you've deleted all the partitions make the NTFS > partition first followed by the Linux ones. That will make it partition > 1. Just make sure that the start, end and type match. The NTFS partition IS first in the partition list, but last on the disk physically according to the cylinder number. It is the position on the disk that is a problem, not the location in the partition table. Short of moving partitions around somehow (which means deleting some partition of the disk to make room), it can't really be done. If one can somehow figure out how to edit the NTFS partition, then simply updating the boot.ini file may make the system boot again. Simplest is to never mess with the position of a windows boot partition in the first place. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 15:00:34 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:00:34 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <1154008899.21349.107.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 09:35 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes >>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders >>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes >>> >>> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System >>> /dev/hda1 * 3951 7296 26876713+ 7 HPFS/NTFS >>> /dev/hda2 1 13 104391 83 Linux >>> /dev/hda3 14 3950 31623952+ 8e Linux LVM >>> >>> Partition table entries are not in disk order >> After all if windows originally was the first partition, then it's boot >> loader will have something like disk(0)part(0) or something similar in >> the boot.ini, while if you moved it and put other partitions in front, >> not NTFS is technically the 3rd partition on the disk, and should have >> boot.ini changed to disk(0)part(2). Best advice is to NEVER move the >> first windows partition, it should always be the first partition on the >> boot drive if you want windows to work reliably. You can work around >> it, but it is generally more fragile. > > You should be able to re-write the partitions in correct order using > fdisk. It would involve the scary task of deleting the partitions and > re-adding them with the same start, end, and type values. I've done this > in presentations to demystify partition tables. It should be easy enough to edit boot.ini using any fuse enabled livecd? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 16:06:59 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727143831.GM13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727143831.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:21:45AM -0400, > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I was working in the production main frame world > for a spell, and all > > the woman are their. In fact in a group of over 50 > people I was one of > > seven guys. > > I suspect the mainframe world wants perfect code > written to well defined > specs following set down code styles. That probably > suits the > personality of a lot of women better than a lot of > other IT jobs. > > In a lot of IT jobs, the person who is the loudest > or has the most > dominant personality gets to make the decisions, > which almost always > means it is a man that is making the decisisions. > It also intimidates a > lot of people, and probably women more than men on > average. My personal theory is that a VERY large percentage of people in IT have trouble with human interaction and find machines easier to deal with. This is not always due to choice. I briefly worked with one woman, a web page designer who was a cancer survivor, when doctors removed the tumour in her brain she lost her hearing. So, she needed a job where her interactions with people could very largely be done via e-mail. Odd having someone in the next office to yours who you had to write notes to, and/or e-mail in order to communicate with :-( ... Also odd having to go around the office building saying, "no, she isn't being rude when she totally ignores everything you say...". For what ever reasons (and I think there are several reasons behind this), on AVERAGE women are much better at human interactions then men. So, if one is not good at sales/marketing stuff due to 2nd rate social skills, am too bright for assembly line drone work, what is left? Several science/engineering/IT areas... Of further note, when it comes to the 10 women I e-mailed with details about the "Women in IT", some you could argue are not in IT. For example, I sent this info. off to Stephanie Cole, who ran the press office at the "Linux World Canada" show. Is Stephanie Cole in IT? Public Relations? Publicity? Hospitality? All of the above? Likewise, some of the women I e-mailed do human resources functions for the IT field. Of the 10 women I e-mailed, I would only consider 4 to be hard core geeks (women who have been at one or more TLUG and/or Unix Unanimous meetings). Colin McGregor > My wife used to work for the transport automation > division of alcatel > (they make systems that run trains/subways and the > signaling and > switching for them, usually for fully automated > setups), and the first > group she was in was 90% women. Other groups were > the complete > opposite. It very much depended on the type of work > that the group was > doing. She certainly found that some groups had > some very dominant men > working in them, and very quickly had no women in > the group at all. > There are some women who would like such an > environment, but I haven't > met very many. I think many of those that do like > it tend to aim for > management instead. > > If a field is very competitive and requires being > very outgoing and > dominating to get noticed and listened to, it will > have a lot less women > in it than a field where working together rather > than competing is > desired. If you want more women in IT, you really > have to change the > environment, which means you have to change the type > of men that work in > that environment. It isn't easy. In places where > the environment is > more cooperative, you often have a lot of women > working in IT. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 16:50:14 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:50:14 -0400 Subject: SomaNetworks WiMax Message-ID: For almost a year, we (at linuxcaffe) have been lucky enough to have been part of a testing phase of Somas WiMax technology. For those of you who may not be familiar with it, WiMax is a radio (2.4ghz) ISP, with an amazing range, a potential 12MB/300k bandwidth, and featuring piggybacked POTS telephony. Although there have been times where we relied on it exclusively, for our internet hookup, and we have used it to otherwise beef up our bandwidth, using a LinksysRV042 appliance, it has been dormant for a little while. When I decided to re-impliment, using a new load-sharing scheme and a new LinksysWRT54GL, They responded with a generous offer to come in, update our hardware, tweak the setup and answer any questions. They also extended the invitation to anyone who might be interested in the technology, and who would enjoy an afternoon yakking with their kernel developers/ DSP rocket-scientists. And so I'm extending the invite to you motly geeks ! This Monday, July 31st, from around 10am to 2pm, at linuxcaffe. Please note that this technology is licensed for experimental use ONLY, and generally speaking, it is not yet available to the general public. somatechnologies.com -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 16:59:16 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:59:16 -0400 Subject: SomaNetworks WiMax In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: bad link ! try http://www.somanetworks.com/press/pr/60282005.html -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 18:25:49 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:25:49 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727160659.25705.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: >My personal theory is that a VERY large percentage of people in IT have trouble with human interaction and find machines easier to deal with. > That's putting it mildly. I've always maintained that the Linus Torvalds' genius is in his people skills far more than his programming talents, since people skills have traditionally been so hard to come by in this realm. After all, Stallman and the GNU Project indeed predate Linux by a long time, but the human dynamics did (and still do) keep a lot of people away from pure-GNU projects. (When is the first stable release of Hurd due?) >This is not always due to choice. > It's often a matter of behavior and personality, which isn't easy to change; to this extent, I'd agree with Colin that choice is difficult if possible at all. Having known both, I'd say that male hardcore computer geeks have more in common with women who own many cats than either would care to admit. >For what ever reasons (and I think there are several reasons behind this), on AVERAGE women are much better at human interactions then men. > I wouldn't paint the situation with a brush quite that broad; IMO it depends on the nature, and the depth, of the interaction. All of the successful high-pressure salespeople I've ever encountered have been male. Then again, I've never bought into that John Gray "Men are from Mars, women are from Hamilton" bullsh*t. I've met my share of sociable men and sociopathic women. >Of further note, when it comes to the 10 women I e-mailed with details about the "Women in IT", some you could argue are not in IT. For example, I sent this info. off to Stephanie Cole, who ran the press office at the "Linux World Canada" show. Is Stephanie Cole in IT? Public Relations? Publicity? Hospitality? All of the above? > There's a difference between someone who is in the field of IT and someone who has clients in the field of IT. I consider being "in IT" as having -- at least as part of one's role -- the design or implementation of technology for its own sake. Simple use of a computer doesn't qualify as "working in IT" any more than driving to work making you a mechanic. >Likewise, some of the women I e-mailed do human resources functions for the IT field. Of the 10 women I e-mailed, I would only consider 4 to be hard core geeks (women who have been at one or more TLUG and/or Unix Unanimous meetings). > > That's going from one extreme to another. On one hand, I wouldn't consider someone in an HR department of an IT company to have an "IT job", considering that person could easily switch to a similar job at a non-IT company. On the other, not everyone working in IT is a hardcore geek. What about documentation, analysis, customer support, etc.? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 18:53:33 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:53:33 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C9052D.5020003-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> Message-ID: <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> >> Likewise, some of the women I e-mailed do human resources functions >> for the IT field. Of the 10 women I e-mailed, I would only consider 4 >> to be hard core geeks (women who have been at one or more TLUG and/or >> Unix Unanimous meetings). >> >> > That's going from one extreme to another. > > On one hand, I wouldn't consider someone in an HR department of an IT > company to have an "IT job", considering that person could easily switch > to a similar job at a non-IT company. On the other, not everyone working > in IT is a hardcore geek. What about documentation, analysis, customer > support, etc.? > > - Evan If I could add to this thread... Another problem, that has very nearly driven me out of IT (and may do yet), is the ingrained, nearly subconscious idea that women "just don't get IT". An example that really surprised/saddened me: TechData, who many of you know is a big tech supplier, has occasional vendor get-togethers where vendors can show off new products to potential VARs. I went to one recently looking for some VoIP and wireless tech (specifically looking for info wrt Linux support). At one company I was happy to see a woman rep so I started asking her what I thought were technical questions. Without hesitation she handed me a print out and said "Here, take this to your IT guy, it will tell him everything.". Even women in this industry don't take other women seriously. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 19:18:14 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:18:14 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C90BAD.4030104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060727191814.GO13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 02:53:33PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > If I could add to this thread... > > Another problem, that has very nearly driven me out of IT (and may do > yet), is the ingrained, nearly subconscious idea that women "just don't > get IT". An example that really surprised/saddened me: > > TechData, who many of you know is a big tech supplier, has occasional > vendor get-togethers where vendors can show off new products to > potential VARs. I went to one recently looking for some VoIP and > wireless tech (specifically looking for info wrt Linux support). > > At one company I was happy to see a woman rep so I started asking her > what I thought were technical questions. Without hesitation she handed > me a print out and said "Here, take this to your IT guy, it will tell > him everything.". Did you say that you were the IT "guy"? I wonder what the reaction would be. :) > Even women in this industry don't take other women seriously. That really doesn't help things at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 19:33:10 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:33:10 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C90BAD.4030104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44C914F6.9000304@telly.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > Another problem, that has very nearly driven me out of IT (and may do > yet), is the ingrained, nearly subconscious idea that women "just > don't get IT". An example that really surprised/saddened me: > > TechData, who many of you know is a big tech supplier, has occasional > vendor get-togethers where vendors can show off new products to > potential VARs. I went to one recently looking for some VoIP and > wireless tech (specifically looking for info wrt Linux support). > > At one company I was happy to see a woman rep so I started asking her > what I thought were technical questions. Without hesitation she handed > me a print out and said "Here, take this to your IT guy, it will tell > him everything.". > > Even women in this industry don't take other women seriously. She may genuinely have known nothing more about the product than the presentation, and may have been directed to answer _every_ deeper request with the data sheet. The "take this to your IT guy" part was certainly insulting and sexist, tho', mind you that might have had to do with projection of her own insecurity about the subject than anything to do with you. Besides, such sexism is certainly not restricted to IT. How different is it from when a woman walks into a car dealer or Home Depot, knowing more about the subject matter than most men yet still being treated as a dummy? That situation is hardly rare either; getting out of IT will not eliminate your exposure to such crap attitudes. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:02:20 2006 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:02:20 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <20060727145912.GN13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The NTFS partition IS first in the partition list, but last on the disk > physically according to the cylinder number. It is the position on the > disk that is a problem, not the location in the partition table. Short > of moving partitions around somehow (which means deleting some partition > of the disk to make room), it can't really be done. Has anybody used GNU parted lately? It had quite a bit of power to resize partitions and shuffle them around. (I last had to mess with this in 2002. A lot could have changed since then.) Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:05:26 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:05:26 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C914F6.9000304-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> <44C914F6.9000304@telly.org> Message-ID: <1154030726.21349.159.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 15:33 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > She may genuinely have known nothing more about the product than the > presentation, and may have been directed to answer _every_ deeper > request with the data sheet. The "take this to your IT guy" part was > certainly insulting and sexist, tho', mind you that might have had to do > with projection of her own insecurity about the subject than anything to > do with you. > > Besides, such sexism is certainly not restricted to IT. How different is > it from when a woman walks into a car dealer or Home Depot, knowing more > about the subject matter than most men yet still being treated as a > dummy? That situation is hardly rare either; getting out of IT will not > eliminate your exposure to such crap attitudes. It even happens to us guys too, perhaps less often. Tech support from many companies starts out this way. Correcting them is a delicate task where one tries not to come off the wrong way. I've also been talked down to and outright lied to by salesmen who don't have a clue about what I know. I'm sure I'm lied to in the many areas that I don't have a clue about. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:28:33 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C90BAD.4030104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Likewise, some of the women I e-mailed do human > resources functions > >> for the IT field. Of the 10 women I e-mailed, I > would only consider 4 > >> to be hard core geeks (women who have been at one > or more TLUG and/or > >> Unix Unanimous meetings). > >> > >> > > That's going from one extreme to another. > > > > On one hand, I wouldn't consider someone in an HR > department of an IT > > company to have an "IT job", considering that > person could easily switch > > to a similar job at a non-IT company. On the > other, not everyone working > > in IT is a hardcore geek. What about > documentation, analysis, customer > > support, etc.? > > > > - Evan > > If I could add to this thread... > > Another problem, that has very nearly driven me out > of IT (and may do > yet), is the ingrained, nearly subconscious idea > that women "just don't > get IT". An example that really surprised/saddened > me: [Snip] > Even women in this industry don't take other women > seriously. I would hope that this sort of @#$% is a real rarity among the real techies (as opposed to the sales droids / PR people). At one point during the 1980's I briefly worked in support for a European based PC maker where the Canadian sales head started HIS career selling sewing machines. Trust me ANY TIME the sales people don't know the technology, weird things happen. For example, one day the sales guy was delighted that a product placement deal had been done, the firm's PCs were going to show up in a locally made TV series, what sort of show wasn't asked until after the deal was signed... Odd being told to help with a soft core porn TV show... One of the best, (and toughest, biggest pain in the ...) instructors I had in college was a woman, and so I would not make the mistake of assuming women don't get IT. Just the numbers of women who get IT is smaller than ideal... Regarding the 10 women I forwarded the Women in IT note on to, here is the rough breakdown in jobs (rough because some of the women have feet in more than one camp): - 2 System Admins - 2 Consultants - 2 Headhunters - 1 UofT Grad. student - 1 Housewife / programmer - 1 Technology show PR - 1 Charity volunteer coordinator Of further interest of the 10 women, the place of birth is: - 4 unknown - 2 USA - 1 United Kingdom - 1 South Africa - 1 Philippines - 1 (West) Germany Of the four unknowns, all four women have accents that would strongly suggest they were born in Canada/USA, but... Now I gather 44% of Toronto residents were born outside Canada, and my list above is a pretty small sample. So beyond the poor social skills idea, to toss another idea out, does it help to be born outside Canada to become a woman techie? I have heard a theory regarding why Canadians, Jewish Americans, and African Americans do well in US comedy. The theory is that each of these groups have some mental distance from the "mainstream" culture, and so have an easier time spotting the absurdities inside mainstream culture (the very close to, but not 110% part of the mainstream idea). Not sure if I buy the theory, but I do find it interesting. Is there something similar for women in technology? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:33:14 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <1154030726.21349.159.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1154030726.21349.159.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060727203314.28932.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > It even happens to us guys too, perhaps less often. > Tech support from > many companies starts out this way. Correcting them > is a delicate task > where one tries not to come off the wrong way. I've > also been talked > down to and outright lied to by salesmen who don't > have a clue about > what I know. I'm sure I'm lied to in the many areas > that I don't have a > clue about. Bad old joke: Q: What is the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman? A: The used car salesman knows when he is lying to you. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:42:29 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: System Administrator Appreciation Day Message-ID: <20060727204229.99987.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I hope everyone knows that tomorrow (July 28th) is System Administrator Appreciation Day. Details to be seen at: sysadminday.com Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:53:54 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:53:54 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <44C91BCC.6080103-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44C91BCC.6080103@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1154033634.2589.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/hda1 * 3951 7296 26876713+ 7 HPFS/NTFS > /dev/hda2 1 13 104391 83 Linux > /dev/hda3 14 3950 31623952+ 8e Linux LVM > > Partition table entries are not in disk order > > Disk /dev/dm-0: 31.2 GB, 31272730624 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 3802 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Disk /dev/dm-0 doesn't contain a valid partition table > > Disk /dev/dm-1: 1073 MB, 1073741824 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 130 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > > Disk /dev/dm-1 doesn't contain a valid partition table > > The NTFS partition IS first in the partition list, but last on the disk > > physically according to the cylinder number. It is the position on the > > disk that is a problem, not the location in the partition table. Short > > of moving partitions around somehow (which means deleting some partition > > of the disk to make room), it can't really be done. > > Has anybody used GNU parted lately? It had quite a bit of > power to resize partitions and shuffle them around. (I last > had to mess with this in 2002. A lot could have changed since > then.) Thank you everyone for the helping out with this. Lennart had originally asked what I was doing with Partition Magic when things went astray. I was shrinking my Windows partition so I could create another partition that was FAT32 for sharing between Windows and Linux. I never got to the stage of making the FAT32 partition. It was during resizing that PM crashed after which I could no longer boot windows. With respect to the partition order. It has been this way for a long time and booted successfully via GRUB into either Windows or Linux. So I don't think I need to change this but I do have to do something to get Windows back. Mel, I used GNUparted a few days ago to convert an NTFS portable drive to FAT32 and it worked well. So what should I try if the partition order doesn't seem to be the culprit? Thanks again for the help. jim > > Mel. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 20:54:04 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:54:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1154033644.3195.4.camel@home> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 19:27 -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote: > Hi, > > Where can I pick up a Fedora 5 installation disk for ppc? I think they're > the red disks. I've seen them around and ignored them, and now I'd like to > find one. Is there a Red Hat office around somewhere that has them in the > lobby, or something like that? I only have x86 DVDs around. On August 1st, you can order discs here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia > Chris Cunnington > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 21:51:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:51:23 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <1154033634.2589.19.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44C91BCC.6080103@the-wire.com> <1154033634.2589.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060727215123.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 04:53:54PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > Thank you everyone for the helping out with this. Lennart had originally > asked what I was doing with Partition Magic when things went astray. I > was shrinking my Windows partition so I could create another partition > that was FAT32 for sharing between Windows and Linux. I never got to the > stage of making the FAT32 partition. It was during resizing that PM > crashed after which I could no longer boot windows. With respect to the > partition order. It has been this way for a long time and booted > successfully via GRUB into either Windows or Linux. So I don't think I > need to change this but I do have to do something to get Windows back. > Mel, I used GNUparted a few days ago to convert an NTFS portable drive > to FAT32 and it worked well. So what should I try if the partition order > doesn't seem to be the culprit? Thanks again for the help. Can partition magic resume the operation it was on? I don't actually know what happens if partition magic crashes (I have never seen it happen). Can you recover the filesystem by running chkdsk from the windows recovery console (from booting the install cd and hitting F6 or something)? I have recovered corrupt NTFS systems that wouldn't boot with that method in the past. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 21:53:56 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:53:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727203314.28932.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727203314.28932.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- John Van Ostrand wrote: >> It even happens to us guys too, perhaps less often. >> Tech support from >> many companies starts out this way. Correcting them >> is a delicate task >> where one tries not to come off the wrong way. I've >> also been talked >> down to and outright lied to by salesmen who don't >> have a clue about >> what I know. I'm sure I'm lied to in the many areas >> that I don't have a >> clue about. > > Bad old joke: > > Q: What is the difference between a used car salesman > and a computer salesman? > > A: The used car salesman knows when he is lying to > you. Maybe this is a new joke for you: A man fishes in the sea. He catches a golden fish. The man is about to pouch it when the fish says 'I'm a genie. A small one. You know the drill. You can make a wish and I'll grant it'. The man smiles, thinks a little and says: 'Can you make me a bridge to the next continent ? I would like to have a bridge. And name it after me.'. The fish looks worried, jumps into the water, time goes by, the man yanks it out again: 'So, genie, where is my bridge ?'. 'Err, look, bridges are really big and hard to make. Maybe you want to make another wish ?'. 'Ok', says the man, 'how about you make me understand my girlfriend. She gets upset, she asks me to apologize to her, and she cries, and I don't understand why.'. The fish looks more worried than before, jumps into the water, time goes by, the man loses patience, yanks the fish out, grabs it hard, and asks: 'look, I'm losing my patience. Grant my wish or I'll bucket you'. The fish looks really scared and says: 'boss, about that intercontinental bridge, how many traffic lanes should it have ?'. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 21:54:27 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:54:27 +0300 (IDT) Subject: System Administrator Appreciation Day In-Reply-To: <20060727204229.99987.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727204229.99987.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: > I hope everyone knows that tomorrow (July 28th) is > System Administrator Appreciation Day. Details to be > seen at: sysadminday.com Is this BSOFH day, or is that sheduled on a different date ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 22:03:07 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:03:07 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <20060727215123.GP13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44C91BCC.6080103@the-wire.com> <1154033634.2589.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727215123.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 04:53:54PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: >> Thank you everyone for the helping out with this. Lennart had originally >> asked what I was doing with Partition Magic when things went astray. I >> was shrinking my Windows partition so I could create another partition >> that was FAT32 for sharing between Windows and Linux. I never got to the >> stage of making the FAT32 partition. It was during resizing that PM >> crashed after which I could no longer boot windows. With respect to the >> partition order. It has been this way for a long time and booted >> successfully via GRUB into either Windows or Linux. So I don't think I >> need to change this but I do have to do something to get Windows back. >> Mel, I used GNUparted a few days ago to convert an NTFS portable drive >> to FAT32 and it worked well. So what should I try if the partition order >> doesn't seem to be the culprit? Thanks again for the help. > > Can partition magic resume the operation it was on? I don't actually > know what happens if partition magic crashes (I have never seen it > happen). > > Can you recover the filesystem by running chkdsk from the windows > recovery console (from booting the install cd and hitting F6 or > something)? I have recovered corrupt NTFS systems that wouldn't boot > with that method in the past. Testdisk is an appropriate tool in this case I think: GPL, and it's saved my drives many a time when testing a new distro. http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 22:15:05 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:15:05 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? Message-ID: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> First of all... long live dial-up. I'm now getting my money's worth from my 295.ca account... but I would really rather be back on broadband. I've had a GVC BB0072 4-port router/modem for a couple of years. Recently, it's been flakey, and today I can't even get to it from either of 2 machines, each of which has their own cable connecting to the router. Power-cycling doesn't help, so I'm in the market for a replacement ADSL modem-router. Non-negotiable requirements are... - compatability with Toronto ADSL setup. - compatability with linux; does not require MS IE to configure; I actually prefer a telnet interface. Features that I really, really want... - 3 or 4 ports, so I don't need a separate router - configurable firewalling/packet-filtering - SUA Any recommended modems and/or stores? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 22:29:42 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:29:42 -0400 Subject: System Administrator Appreciation Day In-Reply-To: <20060727204229.99987.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727204229.99987.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/27/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > I hope everyone knows that tomorrow (July 28th) is > System Administrator Appreciation Day. Details to be > seen at: sysadminday.com It's on the linuxcaffe calendar, that's fer sher ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 22:30:30 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:30:30 -0400 Subject: System Administrator Appreciation Day In-Reply-To: References: <20060727204229.99987.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/27/06, Peter wrote: > > Is this BSOFH day, or is that sheduled on a different date ? ..uhh, that's the other 364.. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 22:34:47 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:34:47 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20060727221505.GA6952-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 7/27/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > Features that I really, really want... > - 3 or 4 ports, so I don't need a separate router > - configurable firewalling/packet-filtering > - SUA > > Any recommended modems and/or stores? Use the "modem" that your new DSL provider provides, and a LinksysWRT54x (S, G, or GL) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 27 23:30:07 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:30:07 -0400 Subject: Security auditing Message-ID: <200607271930.08366.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Does anyone on this list have any experience / recommendations regarding Scanalert ( HackerSafe ) and ControlScan ? -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 00:53:24 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:53:24 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727203314.28932.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 04:33:14PM -0400 References: <1154030726.21349.159.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727203314.28932.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060727205324.A16656@diamond.ss.org> > > Bad old joke: > > Q: What is the difference between a used car salesman > and a computer salesman? > > A: The used car salesman knows when he is lying to > you. > A2: The computer salesman is the guy who couldn't make it as a used car salesman. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 01:56:51 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:56:51 -0400 Subject: New flagship Motorola cellphone to run Linux Message-ID: <44C96EE3.2040908@telly.org> After ages of limiting its Linux cellphone sales to Asia, Motorola has announced that its highlight North American product will run a Linux/Java platform. The new phone, a successor to the current RAZR, is to be called the SCPL. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1994345,00.asp http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2701809386.html Maybe I'm reading this wrong, and SCPL is the name of the Linux/Java platform and the first phone based on that platform is the "motophone". Whatever, it's still a big deal. "When you start looking past the middle of next year, the bulk of everything we do as far as a smartphone as well as a feature phone will be on Linux/Java". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 02:01:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:01:02 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727202833.35079.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C96FDE.1070205@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: >one day the sales guy was delighted that a product placement deal had been done, the firm's PCs were >going to show up in a locally made TV series, what sort of show wasn't asked until after the deal was >signed... Odd being told to help with a soft core porn TV show... > > Odd indeed. Everyone knows that computers have nothing to do with porn. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 02:56:50 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:56:50 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <20060727202833.35079.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44C97CF2.3010106@alteeve.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > I have heard a theory regarding why Canadians, Jewish > Americans, and African Americans do well in US comedy. > The theory is that each of these groups have some > mental distance from the "mainstream" culture, and so > have an easier time spotting the absurdities inside > mainstream culture (the very close to, but not 110% > part of the mainstream idea). Not sure if I buy the > theory, but I do find it interesting. Is there > something similar for women in technology? I don't think I or anyone one person could say... What I can say is that I have always agreed with a line from my favourite movie, Ghost in the Shell; "Over-specialize and you breed in weakness". The IT industry suffers from this, I think. Not enough minorities (as one posted pointed out) are heard in IT. Be it women, blacks, disabled, natives, whatever. It is heavily dominated by one culture, European males. In my mind IT et. al. are weaker for this. "Mainstream" is simply the majority view, so if someone thinks it's helpful to get a non-mainstream view they need to not only tolerate the token outsider, they need to actively support and prop-up those outsiders so that others can see that yeah, you are in fact welcome and will in fact be taken serious. *Then* the IT world will start to diversify and benefit from new, non-mainstream ideas. It's the same in business, politics and many other male-dominated industries, too. As it is now, the only women who succeed are those who most effectively mimic the behavior and attitudes on the mainstream class (your hard-ass female teacher, for example). Have you ever met a woman who succeeded in business? They are usually very much bitches, and they need to be to be taken seriously. The end result is that you have token women/minorities who don't contribute much in the way of new ideas because they couldn't succeed doing that. They had to assimilate. Anyway, all this is my $0.02, take and/or discard as you see fit. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 04:07:03 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:07:03 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C97CF2.3010106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C97CF2.3010106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hmm... I'll add my two cents as well - same disclaimer as Madison's applies. On 7/27/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > I don't think I or anyone one person could say... > > What I can say is that I have always agreed with a line from my > favourite movie, Ghost in the Shell; "Over-specialize and you breed in > weakness". The IT industry suffers from this, I think. Not enough > minorities (as one posted pointed out) are heard in IT. Be it women, > blacks, disabled, natives, whatever. It is heavily dominated by one > culture, European males. Well. I appreciate the GitS quote. ;) As for the actual demographics, I've found that what you say only applies to some jobs. If I'm to look at CCIEs, I know one "WASP" CCIE - and he's French-Canadian, so I'm not sure if he counts; whereas the dozen or so others I've met (hey, working in a telco rocks), are of either East-Indian or Asian descent. Now, looking at programmers, sysadmins, and DBAs, there's definitely more caucasians there. I think it's easier to say that if a job requires a Masters/Doctorate/CCIE, the chances of it being held by a caucasian are low. Of course, those are just observations; I've worked in places that place an emphasis on how much you know and what you can do, as opposed to what pieces of paper you have, so it's hard to guage this industry-wide. Everyone's experiences will be different. YMMV, and all that. > In my mind IT et. al. are weaker for this. "Mainstream" is simply the > majority view, so if someone thinks it's helpful to get a non-mainstream > view they need to not only tolerate the token outsider, they need to > actively support and prop-up those outsiders so that others can see that > yeah, you are in fact welcome and will in fact be taken serious. *Then* > the IT world will start to diversify and benefit from new, > non-mainstream ideas. I agree on that. As IT globalises (read: outsources), those that are specialised have a hard time, because they're replaced in waves. If you're a DBA, you're usually just a DBA. If you're good, anyway. Or coder. Those are pretty specific. Whereas if you're a sysadmin, you can wing in a few other areas. Personally, I've been a netadmin, firewall admin, and a sysadmin. I do at least two of those at each job I've been - sometimes all three. It gives me enough versatility that I'm not concerned about the job market. Others that I know haven't been so fortunate. > It's the same in business, politics and many other male-dominated > industries, too. As it is now, the only women who succeed are those who > most effectively mimic the behavior and attitudes on the mainstream > class (your hard-ass female teacher, for example). Have you ever met a > woman who succeeded in business? They are usually very much bitches, and > they need to be to be taken seriously. The end result is that you have > token women/minorities who don't contribute much in the way of new ideas > because they couldn't succeed doing that. They had to assimilate. Yes and no. I find that the women in IT that I know are geeky, just like guys, without having had to change their personality specifically for the jobs they have. They're introverted, intuitive, and somewhat awkward socially, and that's how they've been from when they were kids. I've even known geeky women in management, lording over geeky guys. (Now THAT can be awkward, to be honest. Attraction can be quite an issue.) Business (and law, and related things) is pretty much what you said, though; you have to be a shark to swim with the sharks and not get eaten alive. > Anyway, all this is my $0.02, take and/or discard as you see fit. Ibid. > Madison -- Vlad > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 06:39:04 2006 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 02:39:04 -0400 Subject: partition headaches In-Reply-To: <20060727215123.GP13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1153953403.6644.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727133521.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154008899.21349.107.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727142609.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1154011541.21349.126.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20060727145912.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44C91BCC.6080103@the-wire.com> <1154033634.2589.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060727215123.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1154068744.2918.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 04:53:54PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > Thank you everyone for the helping out with this. Lennart had originally > > asked what I was doing with Partition Magic when things went astray. I > > was shrinking my Windows partition so I could create another partition > > that was FAT32 for sharing between Windows and Linux. I never got to the > > stage of making the FAT32 partition. It was during resizing that PM > > crashed after which I could no longer boot windows. With respect to the > > partition order. It has been this way for a long time and booted > > successfully via GRUB into either Windows or Linux. So I don't think I > > need to change this but I do have to do something to get Windows back. > > Mel, I used GNUparted a few days ago to convert an NTFS portable drive > > to FAT32 and it worked well. So what should I try if the partition order > > doesn't seem to be the culprit? Thanks again for the help. > > Can partition magic resume the operation it was on? I don't actually > know what happens if partition magic crashes (I have never seen it > happen). > > Can you recover the filesystem by running chkdsk from the windows > recovery console (from booting the install cd and hitting F6 or > something)? I have recovered corrupt NTFS systems that wouldn't boot > with that method in the past. Success!! I downloaded a bootable CD with chkdsk on it and was able to fix windows. Thanks everyone for your help. cheers, jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 13:06:52 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:06:52 -0400 Subject: Help with TCP state Message-ID: <44CA0BEC.3080605@execulink.com> Hi, Is there anyway to force an ESTABLISHED state entry in /proc/net/ip_conntrack to close? greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 13:50:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:50:09 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060728135009.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 06:34:47PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Use the "modem" that your new DSL provider provides, and a > LinksysWRT54x (S, G, or GL) But not a v5. They run vxworks and are apparently horrible routers. The GL exists because some people really have the v5, so they continued making v4's as the GL. I personally think a $200 PC with linux would be a much better choice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 13:51:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:51:02 -0400 Subject: Help with TCP state In-Reply-To: <44CA0BEC.3080605-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44CA0BEC.3080605@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20060728135102.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 09:06:52AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > Is there anyway to force an ESTABLISHED state entry in > /proc/net/ip_conntrack to close? Use netstat -anp, to find which program is using the port, and kill the program. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 10:20:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:20:17 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20060728135009.GQ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> <20060728135009.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 06:34:47PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >> Use the "modem" that your new DSL provider provides, and a >> LinksysWRT54x (S, G, or GL) > > But not a v5. They run vxworks and are apparently horrible routers. > The GL exists because some people really have the v5, so they continued > making v4's as the GL. > > I personally think a $200 PC with linux would be a much better choice. I've got a GL running the DD-WRT firmware and I am quite impressed with the performance and stability of the unit. I also tried open-wrt on the unit with the same results. You can get a G for < $50, and a GL for < $60 right now, Linksys has rebates out. While a sub $200 pc would work well, power considerations notwithstanding (that discussion crops up periodically so I'm aware if the minimal costs involved), why not purchase a GL and demonstrate to Linksys that their decision to open source the firmware was a good one? I was in at Canadacomputers the other day and saw that every GL unit on their shelf had been put aside for various people, whereas none of their GS units or even regular G units were marked. Go figure. They had been out of stock for a week, ordered 75 units, and the very day they came in they were already being put aside for customers. Now, not even a week later, they are down to 39 units. Their other stock in G and GS is still about where it was when their shipment arrived. Not bad... Indeed, IMO, quite good :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 14:35:43 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:35:43 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? In-Reply-To: <44C9E4E1.6080200-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> <20060728135009.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44C9E4E1.6080200@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1154097343.21349.191.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 06:20 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I was in at Canadacomputers the other day and saw that every GL unit on > their shelf had been put aside for various people, whereas none of their > GS units or even regular G units were marked. Go figure. They had been > out of stock for a week, ordered 75 units, and the very day they came in > they were already being put aside for customers. Now, not even a week > later, they are down to 39 units. Their other stock in G and GS is still > about where it was when their shipment arrived. Not bad... Indeed, IMO, > quite good :) My distributor has 278 WRT54GLs in stock and 1,040 due in mid next week. If you can't find one let me know and I'll drop ship you one. The cost would be $83 + $15 shipping. The unit is a retail box so it may come with a rebate, I'm not sure. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 15:33:21 2006 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:33:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora In-Reply-To: <1154033644.3195.4.camel@home> References: <1154033644.3195.4.camel@home> Message-ID: > > I only have x86 DVDs around. On August 1st, you can order discs here: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia > Hi Brian, Thanks for the tip. I seem to have muddled my way through the process of burning my own disks. I realized I shouldn't unstuff the iso images. That Toast needs to be set to Copy, and not Data. And that partitioning can be saved for later, so my iBook only runs one OS right now. I have Fedora Core on my iBook and it's fun to play with. I've used a bit of Ubuntu, and it looks so much like Fedora, it seems to me these distros are more similar than different. Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 18:55:52 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:55:52 +0300 (IDT) Subject: the supermarket will be a supermarket from now on. Message-ID: And it will not be outhustled. The eula will be shorter but more expensive. Pity, that was the only well-engineered part in their products imho. Worded exactly like the GPL, but does not allow users to keep anything, and it allows them to keep the money. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/27/microsoft_coo_art_of_selling/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 21:53:18 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:53:18 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Subversion GUI Message-ID: <1e55af990607281453mebe9a6en654c839da623c0e8@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to use kdesvn, which seems adequate, but it can't do much because it doesn't seem to be able to prompt me for a password. I've flipped through its documentation and have done some searching, but I came up dry. So I'm either looking for help from others who use it, or a recommendation for a different client. Should I just go ahead and generate the keyfile so I don't have to use a password? =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 28 22:29:53 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:29:53 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: References: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C97CF2.3010106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <44CA8FE1.5040507@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > I agree on that. As IT globalises (read: outsources), those > that are specialised have a hard time, because they're replaced in > waves. Outsourcing has turned out to be less cost-effective than originally imagined. People who whine about having lost their job to India, in my experience either were 1) code grinders or data entry technicians (assuming there's a difference) 2) working on boring crap anyway > If you're a DBA, you're usually just a DBA. If you're good, > anyway. Or coder. Those are pretty specific. As a full time, professional DBA, I disagree. Hybridization is almost required to be a good all-around DBA. You can't effectively design and tune a database unless you have a pretty solid understanding of both the platform it's sitting on (sysadmin) the storage it's using (sanadmin) how it communicates with the application (netadmin) and what the application is doing with it (developer). While I'm not a specialist in any of the above areas, I'm at the very least competent in all of them. I can't imagine doing my job effectively without such a skill base. In fact, one of the reasons I moved away from pure development is that I realized I needed to better understand the operations perspective. One of the results is that when I do write code, it is incredibly ops friendly and robust. Or, in business terms, valuable. Drew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEyo/hgfzn5SevSpoRAgP5AJ4qorapHKScxGSvG8fTvhUIkLTTBACgm3xT k+YUfoinGx/Ktm1BJReEGpA= =fO3y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 29 05:09:29 2006 From: transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ahmad) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:09:29 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44CA8FE1.5040507-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727202833.35079.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C97CF2.3010106@alteeve.com> <44CA8FE1.5040507@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <44CAED89.9010409@sympatico.ca> Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > >> I agree on that. As IT globalises (read: outsources), those >> that are specialised have a hard time, because they're replaced in >> waves. > > Outsourcing has turned out to be less cost-effective than originally > imagined. People who whine about having lost their job to India, in my > experience either were > > 1) code grinders or data entry technicians (assuming there's a difference) > 2) working on boring crap anyway > No this is wrong. I use to think that India would never get decent software engineering jobs and especially not R & D jobs but they have. Oracle has lots of development jobs in India. Microsoft has a poured lots of cash into a company to do R & D and software engineering for new Microsoft products. Let's hope Indian software developers are worse than U of Waterloo ones. Heck Microsoft has poured a lot of money into Indian I.T. period. IBM is right behind them. Linux and Unix work in India too. Check Monster India to see the jobs they have there. I saw job postings that seem to fit the experience you have. Nothing like hearing from the business drones in the media "Jobless recovery.". "I.T. sector down 17% in Canada this year." I guess I might stay here and practice saying "Would you like to super size that?" or I can try and get a visa to India(I think it is tough to get one) and write software for about the same salary as a Fry Technician here. Awww yeah Dorothy, I.T. is going bye bye. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 29 22:35:39 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:35:39 -0400 Subject: New flagship Motorola cellphone to run Linux In-Reply-To: <44C96EE3.2040908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44C96EE3.2040908@telly.org> Message-ID: <44CBE2BB.6000706@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > After ages of limiting its Linux cellphone sales to Asia, Motorola has > announced that its highlight North American product will run a > Linux/Java platform. > > The new phone, a successor to the current RAZR, is to be called the SCPL. Hmmm... Between Razrs and SCPLs, Motorola must think their phones are sharp! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 29 23:49:27 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:49:27 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly multi-port ADSL modem-cum-router recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20060728135009.GQ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727221505.GA6952@waltdnes.org> <20060728135009.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44CBF407.3030600@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 06:34:47PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >> Use the "modem" that your new DSL provider provides, and a >> LinksysWRT54x (S, G, or GL) > > But not a v5. They run vxworks and are apparently horrible routers. > The GL exists because some people really have the v5, so they continued > making v4's as the GL. > > I personally think a $200 PC with linux would be a much better choice. You don't have to spend even that much. I recently bought a small case Compaq with an 866 MHz PIII and 128 MB, for $100 from Computer Warehouse Outlet, that does an excellent job of running my SUSE 10 firewall. I even have 3 NICs, so that I can have my WiFi outside of the firewall. I then use ssh or OpenVPN to access my local network from WiFi or other location. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 30 00:14:10 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in open source... In-Reply-To: <44CA8FE1.5040507-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <44CA8FE1.5040507@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20060730001410.84171.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> A sort of tie-in to "Women in IT", Slashdot has a story about the Fedora website now has a women's area: linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/29/1444223 All this to go with previous the previous Linux Chix, Debian Women and Ubuntu Women websites. Was interested to see that I helped push a woman in Colorodo Springs over the edge into Linux showing up on the Ubuntu Women website, one Elaine Normandy. What I did can be seen here (along with a letter to the editor by Elaine Normandy at the bottom): www.linuxjournal.com/article/7127 Then Elaine Normandy's introduction on the Ubuntu website: lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2006-June/000332.html Now, when I did the customised Knoppix for the World Science Fiction Convention my goal wasn't to convert people to Linux (though I am pleased that it seems to have happened at least once), but to solve a nasty set of problems on a very limited budget. Is part of the issue we need to show people that this is a solution that works. Demo times? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 30 12:38:37 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:38:37 -0400 Subject: Help with TCP state In-Reply-To: <20060728135102.GR13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44CA0BEC.3080605@execulink.com> <20060728135102.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44CCA84D.3060405@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 09:06:52AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > >>Is there anyway to force an ESTABLISHED state entry in >>/proc/net/ip_conntrack to close? > > > Use netstat -anp, to find which program is using the port, and kill the > program. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- Thanks Len, you've always offered meaningful information to posters. I should have offered a bit more substance when asking the question. I know which program is running, but it is on another machine. Killing it defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. I am trying to dynamically load pairs of FORWARD/PREROUTING rules into the kernel for a period of time, after which the pairs are unloaded. However, any connections ESTABLISHED during that time are kept alive well after the rules removal, so long as the remote host retransmits. I solved the problem by loading a replacement DROP rule in the FORWARD chain, which halts the connections until the remote hosts timeout or reach their max retrans. What makes this kind of exercise interesting to me is seeing how the remote hosts probing my IP change their tactics. I blend some beguiling routines and I tweak the NetFilters in response to this. It has been a challenge building a firewall which can evolve on its own to mete this largely unpredictable behavior. The Turing Test is a long way off but what the heck, ya gotta start somewhere. greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 30 22:57:02 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:57:02 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly PCI dialup modem? Message-ID: <20060730225702.GA12330@waltdnes.org> The setup of my new PVR computer has come to a screeching halt, while I await delivery of a replacement for my dead ADSL modem. I did manage to do 80 megs of downloads for an update on my main machine. It was over 4 hours at 5.5 kbytes/sec net. I considered doing something similar on the PVR machine... until I discovered that it didn't have serial ports... oops. I had been so focussed on a motherboard with a video chipset that had hardware accleration support in linux, I had forgotten about serial ports on my new PVR machine. Since I intend to have the machine occasionally update, and it's a long run from my den (computer room), I want to use dial-up once the PVR machine is up and running. My options are... a) linux-compatable PCI v90 or v92 modem (preferred) b) a serial-port card plus external modem The b) option will probably get a bit more speed, but more expense and more cables in my living room, no thanks. So, where can I find linux-compatable PCI modems in the GTA? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 30 23:17:27 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:17:27 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly PCI dialup modem? In-Reply-To: <20060730225702.GA12330-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060730225702.GA12330@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <44CD3E07.9080607@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: >Since I intend to have the machine occasionally update, and it's a >long run from my den (computer room), I want to use dial-up once the PVR >machine is up and running. My options are... > a) linux-compatable PCI v90 or v92 modem (preferred) > b) a serial-port card plus external modem > > c) USB Modem >The b) option will probably get a bit more speed, but more expense and more cables in my living room, no thanks. > > USB modems usually get their power from the host, so there's only one cable coming out of the PC, and that morphs into the phone cord. Plus, you don't have to rip open your system (and some small boxes can't spare the slots). Not all USB modems work -- some of them are winmodems too, and others are for DSL -- but models from Creative, USRobotics, ZyXel, CNet and Multitech should work. http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/search_res.php?pattern=USB+modem - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 14:44:01 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:44:01 -0400 Subject: WiMax BigWigs visit linuxcaffe TODAY Message-ID: I sent a heads-up earlier, but this is the last call to meed the head technologists and kernel hacker of Soma Networks; the folks developing the wireless ISP of the future. If you want to take advantage of this opportunity, git yer yayas down here fer noon ! http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/contact http://www.somanetworks.com/ djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 16:16:59 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:16:59 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly PCI dialup modem? In-Reply-To: <20060730225702.GA12330-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060730225702.GA12330@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060731161659.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 06:57:02PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > The setup of my new PVR computer has come to a screeching halt, while > I await delivery of a replacement for my dead ADSL modem. I did manage > to do 80 megs of downloads for an update on my main machine. It was > over 4 hours at 5.5 kbytes/sec net. I considered doing something > similar on the PVR machine... until I discovered that it didn't have > serial ports... oops. I had been so focussed on a motherboard with a > video chipset that had hardware accleration support in linux, I had > forgotten about serial ports on my new PVR machine. > > Since I intend to have the machine occasionally update, and it's a > long run from my den (computer room), I want to use dial-up once the PVR > machine is up and running. My options are... > a) linux-compatable PCI v90 or v92 modem (preferred) > b) a serial-port card plus external modem > > The b) option will probably get a bit more speed, but more expense and > more cables in my living room, no thanks. An internal modem has a 16550A compatible UART that does 115200. A serial port card has a 16550A compatible UART that does 115200. I fail to see what could possibly make any speed difference between the internal and external modem. Unless the internal modem is very badly designed and gets lots of interference from noise in the computer case itself, then there should be no difference. > So, where can I find linux-compatable PCI modems in the GTA? tigerdirect.ca says they have the usr5610b for $89. A number of other places have it at the same price too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 16:19:07 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:19:07 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly PCI dialup modem? In-Reply-To: <44CD3E07.9080607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060730225702.GA12330@waltdnes.org> <44CD3E07.9080607@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060731161907.GT13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 07:17:27PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > USB modems usually get their power from the host, so there's only one > cable coming out of the PC, and that morphs into the phone cord. Plus, > you don't have to rip open your system (and some small boxes can't spare > the slots). > > Not all USB modems work -- some of them are winmodems too, and others > are for DSL -- but models from Creative, USRobotics, ZyXel, CNet and > Multitech should work. > > http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/search_res.php?pattern=USB+modem Many from creative, USR, etc don't work. I suspect most of the ones that work are not made anymore because they cost more. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 20:15:34 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C9052D.5020003-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Then again, I've never bought into that John Gray "Men are from Mars, women > are from Hamilton" bullsh*t. I've met my share of sociable men and > sociopathic women. Absolutely. The similarities between men & women far outweight the differences. I prefer this version (see in a sig on Usenet many years ago): "Men are from Earth. Women are from Earth. Deal with it". Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 20:25:10 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) In-Reply-To: <44C914F6.9000304-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060727160659.25705.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44C9052D.5020003@telly.org> <44C90BAD.4030104@alteeve.com> <44C914F6.9000304@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Besides, such sexism is certainly not restricted to IT. How different is it > from when a woman walks into a car dealer or Home Depot, knowing more about > the subject matter than most men yet still being treated as a dummy? That > situation is hardly rare either; getting out of IT will not eliminate your > exposure to such crap attitudes. Years ago a female friend had lost her car in an accident. One Saturday I drove her from dealership to dealership as she selected a new vehicle. One salesguy saw us walk in. He looked directly at me (ignoring my friend) and said "What sort of car are you looking for sir?" To which I answered "I'm not looking for a car". Even he realised immediately he'd blown a potential sale out of the water. *sigh*. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 20:18:41 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:18:41 -0400 Subject: Sending email on a schedule? Message-ID: <20060731201841.GA2496@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Does anyone send email on a regular schedule, perhaps with a tool like remind? I am looking for a tool or combination of tools that I can use to send myself, and occasionally others, pre-written emails. I could just create at (for one-time entries) or cron (for repeating entries) jobs, but I am sure that this issue has been dealt with before. I'm looking for simple stuff, like a reminder near the end of the day to pick up cheese, or two weeks before my anniversary to send me a reminder to start thinking hard about presents, etc... The key items are - that I can send an email to myself or another on a schedule, and that I can add new entries without too much effort. Any suggestions? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 20:54:06 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:54:06 -0400 Subject: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47361A2B7@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Rob, It's actually funny. We just bought a Volvo this past week. Funny part was, I didn't even get the sales guy's focus, acknowlegement or anything until tech talk and finances came up. My wife was addressed first, then asked what she was looking for. Once we got to details, beyond safety did I actually get a part in the conversation. Unusual. Never had that before in 20 years of buying cars. Even the last sales guy continued to treat my wife as though she wasn't there when I gave him the exact line you just did too. "I'm not looking, she is". If it wasn't for the fact that my wife wanted THAT car, we'd have walked from the dealership. D. Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca Giving you complete IT piece of mind -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Robert Brockway Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:25 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Women in IT (Aug 3). Online freedom of speech (Aug 5th) On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Besides, such sexism is certainly not restricted to IT. How different > is it from when a woman walks into a car dealer or Home Depot, knowing > more about the subject matter than most men yet still being treated as > a dummy? That situation is hardly rare either; getting out of IT will > not eliminate your exposure to such crap attitudes. Years ago a female friend had lost her car in an accident. One Saturday I drove her from dealership to dealership as she selected a new vehicle. One salesguy saw us walk in. He looked directly at me (ignoring my friend) and said "What sort of car are you looking for sir?" To which I answered "I'm not looking for a car". Even he realised immediately he'd blown a potential sale out of the water. *sigh*. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. If you are emailing regarding an open ticket please consider mentioning the ticket ID as this will assist us in responding as quickly as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 20:58:14 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:58:14 -0400 Subject: Sending email on a schedule? In-Reply-To: <20060731201841.GA2496-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060731201841.GA2496@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060731205814.GA29928@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 04:18:41PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone send email on a regular schedule, perhaps with a tool like > remind? I am looking for a tool or combination of tools that I can use > to send myself, and occasionally others, pre-written emails. > > I could just create at (for one-time entries) or cron (for repeating > entries) jobs, but I am sure that this issue has been dealt with before. Yes, it's called 'at' and 'crontab'. It would be helpful if we know what ways that at/crontab were deficient. > > I'm looking for simple stuff, like a reminder near the end of the day to > pick up cheese, or two weeks before my anniversary to send me a reminder > to start thinking hard about presents, etc... > > The key items are - that I can send an email to myself or another on a > schedule, and that I can add new entries without too much effort. Any > suggestions? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 31 21:18:12 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:18:12 -0400 Subject: Sending email on a schedule? In-Reply-To: <20060731205814.GA29928-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060731201841.GA2496@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060731205814.GA29928@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <1154380692.21349.273.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 16:58 -0400, William Park wrote: > Yes, it's called 'at' and 'crontab'. It would be helpful if we know > what ways that at/crontab were deficient. There is more than that. You will need to know how to send email via command line. mail -s "Pick up cheese" me-UeXVDTxk/28 at public.gmane.org < mail -s ...... at> This is ..... at> EOF at> -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: