From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 01:53:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:53:50 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 12/31/05, Peter wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > > Peter wrote: > > > >> SWI Prolog + parser/lexer library + Tk bindings ? > > > > I didn't think it was possible to have a nastier syntax than my imagined > > Perl/GFA Basic/PostScript sort-of hybrid, but Prolog takes the cake. It > > doesn't look like any other programming language. > > It looks like Horn clauses. Or like C-notation lambda expressions with > ':-', ',', '.' and ';' replacing a lot of parentheses. Or like plain > math function descriptions. Which are more or less the same thing. Be > f(x) = {x for x>=0, -x for x<0 }. Except the functions can be symbolic. > neighbors(A,B,[L]) = { ... }. Writing a simple parser that parses a > problem setup as above into valid Prolog is failry easy and could be a > part of the default library. More importantly Prolog can explain what it > is doing while running. With a simple filter to reduce the verbosity of > a trace or explain it should be very helpful. > > I don't think that this is a crazy idea. According to links posted on > this list yesterday, using the highest level available language is the > best idea. Prolog is certainly high level. For non-symbolic calculus > only maybe Matlab or Scilab could be considered. Another option would be Erlang. It has much of the "Prolog nature," notably including the notion that data is immutable, once values have been determined. In effect, you don't have "variables;" you bind values to names. Unlike Prolog, which generally tries to be as near as possible to untyped (sort of like Perl and Tcl), Erlang is strongly typed. It is similar to ML in that type information can commonly be inferred; you often do not need to declare the types. And there are substantial applications written in Erlang; Ericsson has been known to implement phone switches in the language, which is an enormously-parallel application if there ever was one. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:12:02 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:12:02 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 08:53:50PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 12/31/05, Peter wrote: > > It looks like Horn clauses. Or like C-notation lambda expressions > > with ':-', ',', '.' and ';' replacing a lot of parentheses. Or like > > plain math function descriptions. Which are more or less the same > > thing. Be f(x) = {x for x>=0, -x for x<0 }. Except the functions can > > be symbolic. neighbors(A,B,[L]) = { ... }. Writing a simple parser > > that parses a problem setup as above into valid Prolog is failry > > easy and could be a part of the default library. More importantly > > Prolog can explain what it is doing while running. With a simple > > filter to reduce the verbosity of a trace or explain it should be > > very helpful. > > > > I don't think that this is a crazy idea. According to links posted > > on this list yesterday, using the highest level available language > > is the best idea. Prolog is certainly high level. For non-symbolic > > calculus only maybe Matlab or Scilab could be considered. > > Another option would be Erlang. > > It has much of the "Prolog nature," notably including the notion that > data is immutable, once values have been determined. In effect, you > don't have "variables;" you bind values to names. > > Unlike Prolog, which generally tries to be as near as possible to > untyped (sort of like Perl and Tcl), Erlang is strongly typed. It is > similar to ML in that type information can commonly be inferred; you > often do not need to declare the types. > > And there are substantial applications written in Erlang; Ericsson has > been known to implement phone switches in the language, which is an > enormously-parallel application if there ever was one. It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:25:38 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:25:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060101022538.70853.qmail@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I despise the work culture in canada. Full of lazy people who don't care about their work! Full of toxic bosses always having a bad day. Full of intolerant employees quick to complain to their supervisors etc. Chris --- teddy mills wrote: > > As it happens, today I transferred from digital > camcorder to a .MPG > file > (may convert it to DVD, if I figure out how) the > TLUG presentation > someone > gave last fall about Linux and the job market, > resumes et al. > > Who was he again? > > > > On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 17:45 -0500, Andrew Hammond > wrote: > > On 22-Dec-05, at 20:54, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > > > In many cases, people are hired by a recruiting > team that doesn't > > > have > > > a clue as to what the job actually entails. > They simply work off a > > > description of the job written on a piece of > paper or two. > > > > > > I don't know what the process is at other > companies, but here's how we > > do things for the Data Services department here at > Afilias. I give our > > HR lady the job description (which is mostly for > candidates) and a > > brief description of what I'm looking for. She > passes this along to > > the recruiters. For example: > > > > > > About 7 years industry experience > > At least 3 years working with databases, > preferably postgres > > 2 years working in a 24x365 production environment > > comfortable working in and administering a unix / > linux environment > > > > > > The recruiters send resumes of potential > candidates to our HR lady who > > forwards them to me. If they look any good, I ask > her to give them a > > call and run through an initial interview. If they > meet her approval, > > then I ask them to come in for an interview, and > the process goes from > > there. > > > > > > The goal is two-fold: > > 1) To find decent candidates. > > 2) To defend my time from the incredible flurry of > applicants who > > don't even know what "a unix" is, but sure as heck > want the job. > > > > > > We also post to pgsql-jobs, but that seems more > oriented towards > > contract than full time permanent. > > > > > Certifications tell these types of people that > you know "about this > > > much" of the skills/information specific to > their needs. I don't > > > think it's a time wasting process; there's some > value in getting > > > that > > > piece of paper. > > > > > > With a few exceptions, certifications tell me that > you've got the > > background for an entry level position and that > you cared enough to go > > get the cert. > > > > > Btw - LPI Certs are considerably cheaper than MS > Certs, contain much > > > less advertising, and are somewhat more > challenging I think. > > > > > > And guys like me don't get a chuckle out of seeing > LPI certs on a > > resume, unlike some of the MS certs. However, I'm > not looking for > > people to run windows boxes. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 > ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > > Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. > Ltd. > > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:29:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 04:29:37 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060101021202.GA4474-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, William Park wrote: >> Another option would be Erlang. >> >> It has much of the "Prolog nature," notably including the notion that >> data is immutable, once values have been determined. In effect, you >> don't have "variables;" you bind values to names. >> >> Unlike Prolog, which generally tries to be as near as possible to >> untyped (sort of like Perl and Tcl), Erlang is strongly typed. It is >> similar to ML in that type information can commonly be inferred; you >> often do not need to declare the types. >> >> And there are substantial applications written in Erlang; Ericsson has >> been known to implement phone switches in the language, which is an >> enormously-parallel application if there ever was one. > > It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be > mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. But ... that 'interactive geometry' package that they are using is in fact a heavily watered-down version of Matlab or Scilab, yes ? Also Logo, Lisp and Prolog can be said to be birds of a feather (with Logo requiring the least typing, followed by Prolog and followed by Lisp after a large gap). Then there is this Smalltalk based environment for children I found. It runs as a plugin in a browser: http://www.squeakland.org/ I am impressed (but the screen size works out wrong under my window manager). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:32:52 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:32:52 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43B6F904.25759.FC49A8E@localhost> On 30 Dec 2005 at 23:33, Christopher Browne (Christopher Browne ) spaketh these wourdes: > On 12/29/05, William Park wrote: > > In fact, for Grade 11, even Awk is sufficient. Awk syntax is like C, so > > you can teach C very easily afterwards. > > Having associative arrays and regular expressions in the "base > language" would make C a pretty big step down from Awk. In any case, > Awk is only marginally less "dead" than Latin; I don't think too many > Grade 11 classes will be using it. Actually, it would be unsuitable, since I am not sure if grade 11 kids would be cilmbing over each other to learn about what is really nothing more than a text parser. Part of the Computer Science programme at most schools is aimed at *generating* interest in Computer Science, hence the unfortunate trend toward learning ActionScript. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:32:53 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:32:53 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43B6F905.29588.FC49B7E@localhost> On 31 Dec 2005 at 6:17, Chris F.A. Johnson (Chris F.A. Johnson ) spaketh these wourdes: > On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > > Awk is only marginally less "dead" than Latin; > > Nonsense. It is used everyday by shell scripters. The comp.lang.awk > newsgroups is active, and there is also much discussion of awk in > comp.unix.shell. > I agree. I know of some people that are also using it presently -- mostly the old- guard UNIX people though. I would guess that most new UNIXers would be shunted to PERL or Python to do things you would do in sed/awk. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:32:50 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 04:32:50 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060101021202.GA4474-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, William Park wrote: > It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be > mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. Would 'Microsoft Erlang for Education [r][tm]' be more appropriate ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:32:53 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:32:53 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> On 31 Dec 2005 at 15:42, Peter (Peter ) spaketh these wourdes: > > On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > If I were to be teaching a language, I'd want: > > * block structure OK > > * painless associative arrays/hashes (computers aren't just about > > numbers) OK, but you still need an numerically-indexed array to show them first, so that they can see why this is a good idea (and why sometimes it is not). > > * typelessness, for the most part (1 equals "1"; don't make me > > have to worry about details) No dice. You need to teach data types as part of the Ontario curriculum (the fact that some teachers are probably still teaching QBasic notwithstanding). > > * flexible and obvious data structure definition/use (I love Perl's > > flexibility here, but the syntax would be odious to explain) It seems that the "ideal" language would have to strike a compromise between "flexible" and "obvious". The more room for "flexibility", the less room for "obviousness". > > * simple graphics capabilities (maybe I'm showing my age here, but > > the ability to draw stuff without having to worry about OS > > dependencies would be a big help; people like pretty pictures) Turing has had that capability, but is falling out of fashion in many schools in favour of Flash. Paul King > > * copious and sensible debugging/error messages. > > SWI Prolog + parser/lexer library + Tk bindings ? > > Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:47:36 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 04:47:36 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> References: <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> Message-ID: Continuing on the Squeakland idea, the organization that wrote Squeakland may have something interesting: http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 02:53:36 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:53:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <96B82123-8D49-4E80-84B5-6692D7E9555A-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <96B82123-8D49-4E80-84B5-6692D7E9555A@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20060101025336.99741.qmail@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And what's with the bilingual call centre jobs? Where are the repair centres for PC systems? I really don't care for phone jobs. Don't want to be pestered by those who monitor the calls. I would rather solve the problem in person. Telling a technophobe what to do via phone is NO FUN! Chris --- Andrew Hammond wrote: > On 22-Dec-05, at 20:54, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > In many cases, people are hired by a recruiting > team that doesn't have > > a clue as to what the job actually entails. They > simply work off a > > description of the job written on a piece of paper > or two. > > I don't know what the process is at other companies, > but here's how > we do things for the Data Services department here > at Afilias. I give > our HR lady the job description (which is mostly for > candidates) and > a brief description of what I'm looking for. She > passes this along to > the recruiters. For example: > > About 7 years industry experience > At least 3 years working with databases, preferably > postgres > 2 years working in a 24x365 production environment > comfortable working in and administering a unix / > linux environment > > The recruiters send resumes of potential candidates > to our HR lady > who forwards them to me. If they look any good, I > ask her to give > them a call and run through an initial interview. If > they meet her > approval, then I ask them to come in for an > interview, and the > process goes from there. > > The goal is two-fold: > 1) To find decent candidates. > 2) To defend my time from the incredible flurry of > applicants who > don't even know what "a unix" is, but sure as heck > want the job. > > We also post to pgsql-jobs, but that seems more > oriented towards > contract than full time permanent. > > > Certifications tell these types of people that you > know "about this > > much" of the skills/information specific to their > needs. I don't > > think it's a time wasting process; there's some > value in getting that > > piece of paper. > > With a few exceptions, certifications tell me that > you've got the > background for an entry level position and that you > cared enough to > go get the cert. > > > Btw - LPI Certs are considerably cheaper than MS > Certs, contain much > > less advertising, and are somewhat more > challenging I think. > > And guys like me don't get a chuckle out of seeing > LPI certs on a > resume, unlike some of the MS certs. However, I'm > not looking for > people to run windows boxes. > > __________________________________________________ > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 > ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. > Ltd. > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 03:28:52 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:28:52 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B685BF.70903-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Stewart C. Russell wrote: > If I were to be teaching a language, I'd want: > * block structure > * painless associative arrays/hashes (computers aren't just about > numbers) > * typelessness, for the most part (1 equals "1"; don't make me > have to worry about details) > * flexible and obvious data structure definition/use (I love Perl's > flexibility here, but the syntax would be odious to explain) > * simple graphics capabilities (maybe I'm showing my age here, but > the ability to draw stuff without having to worry about OS > dependencies would be a big help; people like pretty pictures) > * copious and sensible debugging/error messages. > ... > Incidentally, I haven't yet found one language that does all that, and > I've been looking for about 20 years. Have you ever looked at Smalltalk? It satisfies every single one of the requirements you listed. There's a free version available at www.squeak.org. And for teaching (i.e. approx. Grade 5's) there's the EToys environment (built on Squeak Smalltalk), at: www.squeakland.org. To help learn Smalltalk there are free books at: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html BTW, Ruby, which was also suggested, is modelled after Smalltalk. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 03:59:26 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:59:26 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language (fwd) Message-ID: Hmm, I wrote this message and it did not make it onto the list ? I send it again here: >> Another option would be Erlang. >> >> It has much of the "Prolog nature," notably including the notion that >> data is immutable, once values have been determined. In effect, you >> don't have "variables;" you bind values to names. >> >> Unlike Prolog, which generally tries to be as near as possible to >> untyped (sort of like Perl and Tcl), Erlang is strongly typed. It is >> similar to ML in that type information can commonly be inferred; you >> often do not need to declare the types. >> >> And there are substantial applications written in Erlang; Ericsson has >> been known to implement phone switches in the language, which is an >> enormously-parallel application if there ever was one. > > It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be > mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. But ... that 'interactive geometry' package that they are using is in fact a heavily watered-down version of Matlab or Scilab, yes ? Also Logo, Lisp and Prolog can be said to be birds of a feather (with Logo requiring the least typing, followed by Prolog and followed by Lisp after a large gap). Then there is this Smalltalk based environment for children I found. It runs as a plugin in a browser: http://www.squeakland.org/ I am impressed (but the screen size works out wrong under my window manager). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 04:00:02 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 06:00:02 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language (fwd) Message-ID: And another message that did not make it ?: Continuing on the Squeakland idea, the organization that wrote Squeakland may have something interesting: http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 04:03:35 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:03:35 -0500 Subject: Squeak/Croquet (was: Re:ActionScript as a teaching language) In-Reply-To: References: <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> Message-ID: Peter wrote: > Continuing on the Squeakland idea, the organization that wrote > Squeakland may have something interesting: > > http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html After doing Smalltalk on and off for close to 20 years, I'm glad to see some renewed interest. Here's a must see demo video of the Croquet environment. (www.opencroquet.org): http://am.mediasite.com/am/viewer/Viewer.aspx?layoutPrefix=LayoutLargeVideo&layoutOffset=Skins/Clean&width=881&height=648&peid=172f6de5-135b-4ba0-9207-ac6d383812c9&pid=fc503ef3-4a4e-44a6-b289-c915d8bf7bd3&pvid=502&mode=Default&shouldResize=false&playerType=WM64Lite It runs about 1.5 hours. There's a ten minute introduction, then the presenter jumps right into the demo. The Q&A after the demo runs for about 25 min. What you'll see: two presenters with two networked machines. Each has an avatar in a shared virtual space. Each machine shows the virtual space from a different point of view, and everything that happens in the virtual space is replicated on both machines. Not only is there Croquet, there's also the Seaside web framework that I gave a talk on in Nov. at NewTLUG. If there's interest, I can give a talk on programming in Smalltalk (or even do Seaside again). One more thing, this year's Smalltalk Solutions conference will be hosted at "Linux World and Network World", in Toronto (April 2006). -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 04:53:44 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:53:44 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060101021202.GA4474-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: Message-ID: <43B71A08.18587.10458F4C@localhost> On 31 Dec 2005 at 21:12, William Park (William Park ) spaketh these wourdes: > On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 08:53:50PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > > Another option would be Erlang. > > > > It has much of the "Prolog nature," notably including the notion that > > data is immutable, once values have been determined. In effect, you > > don't have "variables;" you bind values to names. That would be a difficult concept for Grade 11's, many of whom are just barely grasping the concept of variables in the first place, and are just beginning to learn what a function is in algebra. > > > > Unlike Prolog, which generally tries to be as near as possible to > > untyped (sort of like Perl and Tcl), Erlang is strongly typed. It is > > similar to ML in that type information can commonly be inferred; you > > often do not need to declare the types. > > I like the idea that a language ought to be strongly typed for Grade 11's, but I think that they do need to declare things, especially if they are just learning programming style and technique. So, you are saying that once I do this: x = 3 that I can't do this later on: x = 2.51 because I had assigned it an integer value earlier (and therefore typed it as integer). I would say that would be too subtle, and in a program of over 100 lines, it would also be hard to trace for a beginner. > > And there are substantial applications written in Erlang; Ericsson has > > been known to implement phone switches in the language, which is an > > enormously-parallel application if there ever was one. No one at this level is going to care about parallel processing. > > It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be > mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. > Agreed, William. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 04:53:44 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:53:44 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> On 1 Jan 2006 at 4:29, Peter (Peter ) spaketh these wourdes: > > On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, William Park wrote: > > It boggles rational mind that such esoteric languagues could even be > > mentioned in the context of High School computer cirriculum. > > But ... that 'interactive geometry' package that they are using is in > fact a heavily watered-down version of Matlab or Scilab, yes ? The "interactive geometry" package which is common in the Ontario Math curriculum is called "Geometer's Sketchpad", which has no language interpreter or compiler that I know of, watered-down or otherwise. It is purely graphical and interactive, chock full of menus and dialogs. > > Also Logo, Lisp and Prolog can be said to be birds of a feather (with > Logo requiring the least typing, followed by Prolog and followed by Lisp > after a large gap). Grade 11s would be more worried about whether the concepts I am trying to teach will make sense to them. Whether the code is more concise in one language or another is hardly here nor there. Apart from that I don't know of any Computer Science program on the planet, even at the university level, who would use these as teaching languages (maybe in third-year, and only because there is no better language for the particular job in that course). For example, I have to teach data types, and afterward teach functions, procedures, and scoping rules. Turing has always been a trusty language that has made these concepts clear and easy to teach. But since Turing is not "sexy" enough, many teachers had gone to action script, where scoping is more attached to movie clips, which is not exactly knowledge that is transferrable to languages with normal scoping rules. This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious enough. I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. Java is a little better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its typing and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour Java. > > Then there is this Smalltalk based environment for children I found. It > runs as a plugin in a browser: > > http://www.squeakland.org/ > > I am impressed (but the screen size works out wrong under my window > manager). Sounds great, but if there is ever anything like screen problems, that tends to translate into classroom management problems. I've looked at the website, bookmarked it, but haven't had the chance yet to "kick smalltalk's tires", so to speak. I have never used smalltalk, but have heard a great deal about it, and I understand that it has been around for quite a while. > > Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dchipman-fd8BhpBHabA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 08:03:11 2006 From: dchipman-fd8BhpBHabA at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 03:03:11 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> Hi Sy, I just have one thing to say: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a crybaby on the list. Sy, if you don't want to figure things out, go back to Windows. It's perfect for you! Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 14:21:41 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 09:21:41 -0500 Subject: Google and the making of computer/business history Message-ID: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> Here is a quote about the just-published book on Google by Steve Vise, which appeared on the WashingtonPost.com website: In my view, this is the hottest business, media and technology success of our time, with a stock market value of $110 billion, more than the combined value of Disney, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Amazon.com, Ford and General Motors. This quote is not a book quote, but a quote from the website. There was supposed to be an actual excerpt from the book, but it is missing, and only Vise's preface was left. I had no idea that Google was that big (even in stock value). The full context of the quote is found at: http://tinyurl.com/aa99j Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 17:22:52 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:22:52 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060101022538.70853.qmail-3kt73Wy6rFWvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060101022538.70853.qmail@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060101172252.GA10613@ettin> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 06:25:38PM -0800, Christopher Charles wrote: >I despise the work culture in canada. Full of lazy >people who don't care about their work! There is the other side. The work place can be full of employers who expect employees work as if it is the most important event in their lives. Employees should be so enthralled with work that they willing sacrifice all of there personal time with little or no compensation. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 5 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 18:17:15 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:17:15 +0000 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060101172252.GA10613@ettin> References: <20060101022538.70853.qmail@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060101172252.GA10613@ettin> Message-ID: <43B81CAB.9010508@zen.co.uk> That sounds very familar, Paul > > There is the other side. The work place can be full of employers who > expect employees work as if it is the most important event in their > lives. Employees should be so enthralled with work that they willing > sacrifice all of there personal time with little or no compensation. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 20:07:43 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:07:43 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman-fd8BhpBHabA@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> Message-ID: David, All I can think to say is "piss off". That being said, Sy's point (weather you like it or not) was valid and on topic. Your reply was juvenile, useless and rather missed the point. -Joseph- On 1/1/06, David C. Chipman wrote: > Hi Sy, > > I just have one thing to say: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a crybaby on the list. Sy, if you don't want to figure things out, go back to Windows. It's perfect for you! Later, > > -David Chipman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 21:29:25 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:29:25 -0500 Subject: Dual booting RH and Ubantu issues + RHCT questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/28/05, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > > This year, I understand one need to learn XFEE 86. I understand they > will be changing that to Xorg sometime next year. Since X server is a > substantial part in RH exams, does anyone know when they will seize > using Xfee 86 on their exams? The current Red Hat Certified Technician (RHCT) and Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE) exams are based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4, which uses Xorg. So learn Xorg, not XFree86. I am unfortunate not to have worked on a productive network and > therefore have little of SCSI experience. (I have read a lot about it > though). What is the chance of someone passing RH exams without > touching a scsi drive? And would anyone know a company/organization > that are Linux intensive and can accomodate someone for two months > free or for a fee? I am nervous I may end up loosing 2,300 dollars if > I don't have enough practice on a productive system. I live in North > York, but willing to travel as far as Mississauga if needs be. SCSI and IDE drives are treated no differently in Linux, other than SCSi drives have the prefix "sd" and IDE uses "hd". As far as the exams go, a good reference is the Red Hat Training website. They have a list of topics that are covered on the exam. As far as studying for the exam, when I took my RHCE (long long ago), what I did is set up a test machine at home and practiced on it. I took the RH300 class (RHCE Prep Course) and every night, I'd do the lab exercises we did in class over and over until I understood them and knew them inside out. I'd also recommend (if you can) to take the RH133 course (Sys Admin + RHCT exam), or if you're doing the RHCE, the RH300. It gives you 4 days of classes (read PRACTICE) with the exam on the last day. Also, you can use the course lab exercises as a good study guide. Red Hat bases their tests on what's taught in those two courses. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 02:12:58 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:12:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> References: <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> Message-ID: | From: Paul King | > Also Logo, Lisp and Prolog can be said to be birds of a feather (with | > Logo requiring the least typing, followed by Prolog and followed by Lisp | > after a large gap). | | Grade 11s would be more worried about whether the concepts I am trying to teach | will make sense to them. I don't know what concepts you are trying to teach. But Logo is a great introductory language. It was designed for young kids (elementary school). Without condescension. I showed Logo to my kids. They thought it was OK, but preferred BASIC because it was more real (there is no accounting for taste). Logo is a very powerful language. I know people who have done systems programming in it (including me). It could be considered simplified LISP. The most important commercial educational Logo is from LCSI (an Quebec company). It is inside their "MicroWorlds" products. I've not played with them in a decade, but I think highly of them: http://www.microworlds.com/ The Ministry of Education might have a site license for Ontario (not sure). | Whether the code is more concise in one language or | another is hardly here nor there. If the only difference is concision, the shorter program is clearer. One way of making a language concise is to add powerful and possibly obscure features (think of APL or C expressions). That requires more learning, and is probably a bad feature for your purposes. Another way is to leave out crap (useless details). This makes the language more teachable. Logo does this. So does Python. | Apart from that I don't know of any Computer | Science program on the planet, even at the university level, who would use these | as teaching languages (maybe in third-year, and only because there is no better | language for the particular job in that course). I was involved with a first year U of T course that used Logo. It was designed to be a terminal course -- for those not going on to further CS. Introductory programming at MIT used Scheme (a version of LISP). The text is excellent: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. This was definitely not terminal. | For example, I have to teach data types, and afterward teach functions, | procedures, and scoping rules. Some of those ideas don't exist or are degenerate in Logo. That's part of what makes it simple. | Turing has always been a trusty language that has | made these concepts clear and easy to teach. I like Turing. A well done "conventional" language. | But since Turing is not "sexy" | enough, I've chatted with a number of students who hated it and wanted a real language like C. Just like my kids wanted BASIC. The students are wrong, as far as I can tell, but what are you going to do? | This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious | enough. Why is it not obvious enough? I admit to knowing too little about Python. | I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. Too many razor blades in that package. | Java is a little | better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its typing | and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour Java. Java seems to be reasonable. Not inspired, but reasonable. If being widely available and used matters, it might be the best choice. Perhaps the problem is the curriculum. Without knowing it, I really cannot be sure how you can satisfy it. I do suspect that many teachers are just ignoring it. | Sounds great, but if there is ever anything like screen problems, that tends to | translate into classroom management problems. Squeak is a natural successor to Logo. The Squeak universe is much more complex and rich. This may not be a good thing from your standpoint. You can tailor it if you want (eg. cut it down). The main version is (was?) not a browser plugin. There surely is a version that works OK for you. I don't like the fact that (last I checked) Squeak uses a busy loop so it is always using some of your CPU even when idle. I admit to being overly picky about this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 02:48:05 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:48:05 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> Message-ID: <200601012148.05332.marc@lijour.net> On Sunday 01 January 2006 21:12, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Paul King > | > | > Also Logo, Lisp and Prolog can be said to be birds of a feather (with > | > Logo requiring the least typing, followed by Prolog and followed by > | > Lisp after a large gap). > | > | Grade 11s would be more worried about whether the concepts I am trying to > | teach will make sense to them. > > I don't know what concepts you are trying to teach. But Logo is a > great introductory language. It was designed for young kids > (elementary school). Without condescension. > > I showed Logo to my kids. They thought it was OK, but preferred BASIC > because it was more real (there is no accounting for taste). > > Logo is a very powerful language. I know people who have done systems > programming in it (including me). It could be considered simplified > LISP. > > The most important commercial educational Logo is from LCSI (an Quebec > company). It is inside their "MicroWorlds" products. I've not played > with them in a decade, but I think highly of them: > http://www.microworlds.com/ > > The Ministry of Education might have a site license for Ontario (not > sure). Try this: http://www.osapac.org/bb.asp > > | Whether the code is more concise in one language or > | another is hardly here nor there. > > If the only difference is concision, the shorter program is clearer. > > One way of making a language concise is to add powerful and possibly > obscure features (think of APL or C expressions). That requires more > learning, and is probably a bad feature for your purposes. > > Another way is to leave out crap (useless details). This makes the > language more teachable. Logo does this. So does Python. > > | Apart from that I don't know of any Computer > | Science program on the planet, even at the university level, who would > | use these as teaching languages (maybe in third-year, and only because > | there is no better language for the particular job in that course). > > I was involved with a first year U of T course that used Logo. It was > designed to be a terminal course -- for those not going on to further > CS. > > Introductory programming at MIT used Scheme (a version of LISP). The > text is excellent: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. > This was definitely not terminal. > > | For example, I have to teach data types, and afterward teach functions, > | procedures, and scoping rules. > > Some of those ideas don't exist or are degenerate in Logo. That's > part of what makes it simple. > > | Turing has always been a trusty language that has > | made these concepts clear and easy to teach. > > I like Turing. A well done "conventional" language. > > | But since Turing is not "sexy" > | enough, > > I've chatted with a number of students who hated it and wanted a real > language like C. Just like my kids wanted BASIC. The students are wrong, > as far as I can tell, but what are you going to do? > > | This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be > | obvious enough. > > Why is it not obvious enough? I admit to knowing too little about Python. > > | I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. > > Too many razor blades in that package. > > | Java is a little > | better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its > | typing and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour > | Java. > > Java seems to be reasonable. Not inspired, but reasonable. If being > widely available and used matters, it might be the best choice. > > Perhaps the problem is the curriculum. Without knowing it, I really > cannot be sure how you can satisfy it. I do suspect that many > teachers are just ignoring it. > > | Sounds great, but if there is ever anything like screen problems, that > | tends to translate into classroom management problems. > > Squeak is a natural successor to Logo. The Squeak universe is much > more complex and rich. This may not be a good thing from your > standpoint. You can tailor it if you want (eg. cut it down). > > The main version is (was?) not a browser plugin. There surely is a > version that works OK for you. > > I don't like the fact that (last I checked) Squeak uses a busy loop so > it is always using some of your CPU even when idle. I admit to being > overly picky about this. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 06:41:59 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:41:59 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive Message-ID: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Hi all, Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to respond? The reason I ask is that my perl program tries to spit out data to the browser every 30 seconds during a big job to keep the connection alive (I turn off buffering) but sometimes an external program I call holds things up for too long and the connection dies anyway. I know that I can increase the time-out on the webserver but from what I can tell the browser generally ends things. I'm worried that this option won't exist in browsers for valid security reasons... Thanks in advance! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 07:12:21 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:12:21 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B8CB37.9050606-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060102021221.37719c30.tleslie@tcn.net> Only thing i can think of, is since you are delivering sets of data every 30 seconds, that you could "selectively meter" out the data, in a sence, intentionally holding back some data from the "last batch" and trickle it to keep the browser from timing out. You might also want to consider using xmlhttp (ajax) it would be a lot cleaner solution. -tl On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:41:59 -0500 Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a > connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to respond? > > The reason I ask is that my perl program tries to spit out data to > the browser every 30 seconds during a big job to keep the connection > alive (I turn off buffering) but sometimes an external program I call > holds things up for too long and the connection dies anyway. > > I know that I can increase the time-out on the webserver but from > what I can tell the browser generally ends things. > > I'm worried that this option won't exist in browsers for valid > security reasons... > > Thanks in advance! > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up > Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org > Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 07:19:57 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:19:57 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B8CB37.9050606-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200601020219.57252.marc@lijour.net> On Monday 02 January 2006 01:41, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a > connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to > respond? > > The reason I ask is that my perl program tries to spit out data to > the browser every 30 seconds during a big job to keep the connection > alive (I turn off buffering) but sometimes an external program I call > holds things up for too long and the connection dies anyway. > > I know that I can increase the time-out on the webserver but from > what I can tell the browser generally ends things. > > I'm worried that this option won't exist in browsers for valid > security reasons... > > Thanks in advance! > > Madison Pull from the browser? http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XML_in_Mozilla#DOM_Load_and_Save_Methods -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 09:06:58 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:06:58 +0200 (IST) Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <20060102021221.37719c30.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> <20060102021221.37719c30.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, ted leslie wrote: > Only thing i can think of, is since you are delivering sets of data every 30 seconds, > that you could "selectively meter" out the data, in a sence, intentionally holding back > some data from the "last batch" and trickle it to keep the browser from timing out. > > You might also want to consider using xmlhttp (ajax) it would be a lot > cleaner solution. The timeout option is a socket layer option. Some web servers can be recompiled with longer wait options. Googling for 'apache "keep alive"' yields 270k answers and the first one is relevant. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 09:38:28 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 04:38:28 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> <20060102021221.37719c30.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20060102043828.542ca662.tleslie@tcn.net> as Madison said, she figured out the apache keep-alive, its the browser end that is the issue. -tl On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:06:58 +0200 (IST) Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, ted leslie wrote: > > > Only thing i can think of, is since you are delivering sets of data every 30 seconds, > > that you could "selectively meter" out the data, in a sence, intentionally holding back > > some data from the "last batch" and trickle it to keep the browser from timing out. > > > > You might also want to consider using xmlhttp (ajax) it would be a lot > > cleaner solution. > > The timeout option is a socket layer option. Some web servers can be > recompiled with longer wait options. Googling for 'apache "keep alive"' > yields 270k answers and the first one is relevant. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 10:37:09 2006 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:37:09 -0500 Subject: touch screen woes: penmount / aquapad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/31/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > 1.) Don't use cat, use od instead. Thanks for the tip. Didn't know about od. > 2.) touch screens are a pain in the ass. Agreed. > 3.) Does the machine have a BIOS? On the machines that I've dealt with > the bios let you set all sorts of interesting things. > Here are Leah's notes on the one we used: > https://heinous.org/wiki/Javelin_Touch_Screen_Linux Yes, it has a BIOS. I can set which COM port the touch screen appears on, as well as the infrared port. I can put it on COM 1 through 4. Thanks for the link to the notes. I took a look at them. They are very interesting (I didn't know about setserial before). But I haven't made any progress. Franco -- > Good luck! > -Joseph- > On 12/31/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > > Hello. > > > > I'm working on a little project over the holidays. And I need some help. :-) > > > > I recently got me hands on an aquapad. It is a tablet PC. See [1], > > [2], [3], [4] for more information. It came with Windows CE installed, > > and with a Midori linux installation on an accompanying CompactFlash > > card (it can boot from the CF card slot). > > > > I'm trying to install Debian 3.1 on this machine, but I can't get the > > touch screen working. The touch screen is apparantly a PenMount > > DMC9000 which has linux drivers, but I followed the provided > > instructions and get no action. > > > > First questions: Does anyone have any experience with touch screens > > under linux? Does anyone have one of these? > > > > One of the problems I am having is identifying the device from within > > Debian. The documentation with the drivers suggest that the device > > should connect to ttyS0 or ttyS1. But when I do 'cat /dev/ttyS0' and > > touch the screen, I get no action. When I do the same with ttyS1 I get > > a complaint about a busy device or resource. > > > > So my third question is: how does one find how a device is interacting > > with the system? > > > > Some things to note: The touchscreen does work. It works with the > > Windows CE installation (under which I can't get wireless working; > > plus it's not linux). It also works with the Midori linux > > installation. But just barely. The driver that is being used there is > > a patched version of mk712, along with a patched version of X, a > > patched kernel and some software to translate screen presses to X > > events. > > > > I compiled a 2.6 kernel with mk712 support enabled. I think the device > > is recognized by the machine. I get "0x260 at IRQ 10" during the boot > > message. But a corresponding entry under /dev isn't created. I grabbed > > the major and minor device numbers from the kernel documentation and > > mknod'd /dev/tscreen, but it doesn't correspond to a device apparently > > since 'cat /dev/tscreen' complains. > > > > If you've read this far, I thank you. And please send me any comments > > you have as I might have overlooked (or most likely, don't know) > > something trivial. > > > > Franco > > > > [1] http://www.fic.com.tw/product/mobile/aquapad > > [2] http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2255681925.html > > [3] http://rumkin.com/reference/aquapad > > [4] http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=958 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 10:38:46 2006 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:38:46 -0500 Subject: touch screen woes: penmount / aquapad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/31/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Oh, and one other thought. > Go into winCE and look at the device settings. Copy as many of them as > you think you can. At first I thought this was a great idea. Then I tried it. WinCE doesn't come with a "device manager" nor a registry editor. I don't know how to grab device information off WinCE without those. Thanks for the suggestions Joseph, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 14:09:51 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:09:51 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> Message-ID: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Hello everyone, First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? Also how about websites and books. You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind of questions here. Thanks in advance, Joseph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 14:39:10 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 09:39:10 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <1136212750.26755.35.camel@holden.weait.net> On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 09:09, Joseph wrote: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind of > questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph Hi Joseph, Welcome and Happy New Year. If you are new to Linux and an Old Hand at Windows then the first thing you'll want to do is make sure all your Win boxes are patched for the current WMF exploit. Man oh man that thing is scaring the weeblie jeeblies out of me! http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/ http://isc.sans.org/diary.php http://secunia.com/advisories/18255/ http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/181038 On to Linux. The best place to start, and the best version (often called a "distribution" or "distro") of Linux to use, depends on many factors including: - how you intend to use it - on what hardware - do you prefer GUI or CLI - do you prefer "tastes great" or "less filling" I'm not kidding. There are as many different answers and motivations to the "best distro" question as there are Linux users... The biggest motivation to drive you to an initial distro choice might be this. On whom will you rely for help when you need to make a 2AM phone call to solve a problem? Use the same distro that good friend is using because, "If you are going to wake me up with your emergencies, you had better be using stuff that I am intimately familiar with." Your "first distro" choice isn't all that critical. After all, you can change to another one (or three) and still the bulk of what you learned will apply. This is still largely a non-answer-answer. And I apologize. The two things that made the largest positive impact on my learning of Linux are: - take an introductory Linux course like this one http://ce.conestogac.on.ca/Course.asp?code=INFO1500 find one at your local school. - attend your local LUG meetings. Listen a lot. Ask specific questions of folks that have demonstrated knowledge. Once you have decided on a distro to try, you'll want to visit. The official web site for that distro The community supported web sites and or news site for that distro The OS itself will be a minor portion of your day to day work. you'll also want to be familiar with the: Official web site of the software you use Community support and news web sites of the software you use. One final item. Linux distros have made great improvements recently and security/bug fixes are published every day. Don't restrict yourself to a five-year-old version of {Distro} just because you have it on CD. Get the newest version. And start with a relatively new piece of hardware; say, no older than four or five years old. You don't want to try this on a 486 and think "Gee KDE is slow" until after you have had a chance to see it on a current machine. Best of luck and again, welcome. P.S. A bunch of posters will now chime in with "but _my_ choice of ${DISTRO} is always best. But they are wrong. Unless they say "Kubuntu." ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:11:07 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 10:11:07 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> Message-ID: <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> On 1 Jan 2006 at 21:12, D. Hugh Redelmeier (D. Hugh Redelmeier ) spaketh these wourdes: > | From: Paul King > > | This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious | > enough. > > Why is it not obvious enough? I admit to knowing too little about Python. > I was shown Python by a farirly keen programmer several years ago, and I remember that it seems that instead of parentheses or begin/end, Python appears to use only indentation to indicate scoping. While as a programmer I thought it was kind of neat, and may even force a bit of good form into programming (imagine a printout of a nicely-indented program being handed in for once), I still think that a beginner needs something less subtle to see where variables have an effect and where they don't, even sacrificing good form (they would still have to have good form to get better marks). That may be just me. > | I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. > > Too many razor blades in that package. > > | Java is a little > | better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its typing > | and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour Java. > > Java seems to be reasonable. Not inspired, but reasonable. If being > widely available and used matters, it might be the best choice. > > Perhaps the problem is the curriculum. Without knowing it, I really > cannot be sure how you can satisfy it. I do suspect that many > teachers are just ignoring it. The curriculum is not language-specific, although I also suspect that many parts of the curriculum are being ignored as well. It is not a core course, and so students need to be attracted to it. They don't "need" to take it. As for there being a problem with the curriculum, as far as I can see, it simply consists of the things that any beginning computer science student ought to know. Such as it is, it still takes kids who are good in math and problem-solving to become good in this course, in my view. So, while this course is seen as an elective (and it is), it is not a cake-walk for the average CS student. Most other elective courses tend to be light, but not computer science. The LCSI link seems to be a good one. I like the fact that it says that these are *constructivist* tools, since constructivism is now the new educational "flavour of the month". I am curious as to how they see programming as being covered in a constructivist manner. I would have thought that programming itself is constructivist anyway, regardless of the language. CS is inherently hands-on, and when you have a bug or syntax error, you learn from your own mistakes. You can't get more constructivist than that. > > | Sounds great, but if there is ever anything like screen problems, that tends to > | translate into classroom management problems. > > Squeak is a natural successor to Logo. The Squeak universe is much > more complex and rich. This may not be a good thing from your > standpoint. You can tailor it if you want (eg. cut it down). > > The main version is (was?) not a browser plugin. There surely is a > version that works OK for you. > > I don't like the fact that (last I checked) Squeak uses a busy loop so > it is always using some of your CPU even when idle. I admit to being > overly picky about this. > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:13:28 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:13:28 +0000 Subject: new to linux Message-ID: <1136214808.8966.10.camel@localhost> I suggest that you have a look at http://www.basiclinux.net. This is an excellent on line course aimed at people just starting out in Linux and they try to make it as 'distro - agnostic' as possible. This means that what they teach you will be applicable to what ever distribution you choose to use. They cover everything from how to obtain a distro through more advanced topics like security and internetworking (Samba). HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:15:26 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Imran .) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:15:26 +0000 Subject: New to Linux Message-ID: Hi Joseph, Welcome to Linux :) Here is a link of Linux FAQs from IBM site. It addresses some of the most common issues new Linux users face, especially those coming from Micro$oft Window$ world. http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-faq/ Happy Linuxing :) Regards, Imran. From: "Joseph" Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: Subject: [TLUG]: New to Linux Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:09:51 -0500 >Hello everyone, >First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! >I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. >I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. >There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? >Also how about websites and books. >You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind >of >questions here. >Thanks in advance, >Joseph > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:19:39 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 10:19:39 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> Message-ID: <43B8FE3B.32527.17A8F9CB@localhost> I would start with Fedora Core 4. It is pretty intuitive for a beginner. Websites? You can google appropriate websites. In fact, Google even has its own separate search engine for Linux: http://www.google.com/linux As for books, there is enough on-line/on-disk/web-based documentation that I would hold off on any book-buying decisions until you are sure you can't get the info you want. I find that the books I end up buying most of are language-based books, such as BASH or Perl. I have books on Linux, but because the on-line docs are more plentiful, cheaper, and more up-to-date, those books tend to gather dust. Paul King On 2 Jan 2006 at 9:09, Joseph (Joseph ) spaketh these wourdes: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind of > questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:45:03 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:45:03 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <1136212750.26755.35.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1136212750.26755.35.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <003f01c60fb3$7f6c1470$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks for the info. I would love to take a course but the one you mentioned is in waterloo which is 2 hours from here. Basically I will be looking for something that easy to setup since I don't really know any programming. I plan to take some courses soon but I want to sort of get my feet wet first. I will try to make it to the next meeting that you have. How much is the entrance fee? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of interlug-list Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:39 AM To: TLUG-list Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 09:09, Joseph wrote: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these > kind of questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph Hi Joseph, Welcome and Happy New Year. If you are new to Linux and an Old Hand at Windows then the first thing you'll want to do is make sure all your Win boxes are patched for the current WMF exploit. Man oh man that thing is scaring the weeblie jeeblies out of me! http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/ http://isc.sans.org/diary.php http://secunia.com/advisories/18255/ http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/181038 On to Linux. The best place to start, and the best version (often called a "distribution" or "distro") of Linux to use, depends on many factors including: - how you intend to use it - on what hardware - do you prefer GUI or CLI - do you prefer "tastes great" or "less filling" I'm not kidding. There are as many different answers and motivations to the "best distro" question as there are Linux users... The biggest motivation to drive you to an initial distro choice might be this. On whom will you rely for help when you need to make a 2AM phone call to solve a problem? Use the same distro that good friend is using because, "If you are going to wake me up with your emergencies, you had better be using stuff that I am intimately familiar with." Your "first distro" choice isn't all that critical. After all, you can change to another one (or three) and still the bulk of what you learned will apply. This is still largely a non-answer-answer. And I apologize. The two things that made the largest positive impact on my learning of Linux are: - take an introductory Linux course like this one http://ce.conestogac.on.ca/Course.asp?code=INFO1500 find one at your local school. - attend your local LUG meetings. Listen a lot. Ask specific questions of folks that have demonstrated knowledge. Once you have decided on a distro to try, you'll want to visit. The official web site for that distro The community supported web sites and or news site for that distro The OS itself will be a minor portion of your day to day work. you'll also want to be familiar with the: Official web site of the software you use Community support and news web sites of the software you use. One final item. Linux distros have made great improvements recently and security/bug fixes are published every day. Don't restrict yourself to a five-year-old version of {Distro} just because you have it on CD. Get the newest version. And start with a relatively new piece of hardware; say, no older than four or five years old. You don't want to try this on a 486 and think "Gee KDE is slow" until after you have had a chance to see it on a current machine. Best of luck and again, welcome. P.S. A bunch of posters will now chime in with "but _my_ choice of ${DISTRO} is always best. But they are wrong. Unless they say "Kubuntu." ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:46:08 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:46:08 -0500 Subject: new to linux In-Reply-To: <1136214808.8966.10.camel@localhost> References: <1136214808.8966.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <004001c60fb3$a667f030$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks John. I will go through the site. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John McGregor Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:13 AM To: tlug Subject: [TLUG]: Re: new to linux I suggest that you have a look at http://www.basiclinux.net. This is an excellent on line course aimed at people just starting out in Linux and they try to make it as 'distro - agnostic' as possible. This means that what they teach you will be applicable to what ever distribution you choose to use. They cover everything from how to obtain a distro through more advanced topics like security and internetworking (Samba). HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:48:01 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:48:01 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004101c60fb3$e9cf08e0$81fbc645@unipc> Hi Imran, Thanks for the link. Joseph -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Imran . Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:15 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: New to Linux Hi Joseph, Welcome to Linux :) Here is a link of Linux FAQs from IBM site. It addresses some of the most common issues new Linux users face, especially those coming from Micro$oft Window$ world. http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-faq/ Happy Linuxing :) Regards, Imran. From: "Joseph" Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: Subject: [TLUG]: New to Linux Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:09:51 -0500 >Hello everyone, >First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! >I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. >I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. >There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? >Also how about websites and books. >You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these >kind of questions here. >Thanks in advance, >Joseph > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:53:55 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:53:55 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <43B8FE3B.32527.17A8F9CB@localhost> References: <43B8FE3B.32527.17A8F9CB@localhost> Message-ID: <004201c60fb4$bcd51950$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks Paul. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul King Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:20 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux I would start with Fedora Core 4. It is pretty intuitive for a beginner. Websites? You can google appropriate websites. In fact, Google even has its own separate search engine for Linux: http://www.google.com/linux As for books, there is enough on-line/on-disk/web-based documentation that I would hold off on any book-buying decisions until you are sure you can't get the info you want. I find that the books I end up buying most of are language-based books, such as BASH or Perl. I have books on Linux, but because the on-line docs are more plentiful, cheaper, and more up-to-date, those books tend to gather dust. Paul King On 2 Jan 2006 at 9:09, Joseph (Joseph ) spaketh these wourdes: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these > kind of questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 15:59:10 2006 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:59:10 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? Ubuntu (ubuntulinux.org) is quite popular these days. It is derived from Debian (debian.org), one of the major linux distributions. It is designed to be easily installed and ready for the average computer user to use. This means that the developers have made many choices on the end-user's behalf by selecting certain software to put into the distribution from the myriad of different options available. This isn't a problem however: it will give provide you with an easy to install linux system, fully configured and working nicely, yet has all the upgrading opportunities possible. Check out ubuntuguide.org for common post-install tasks (with solutions). There is also a "Live CD" which will allow you to try it without installing it. There is a wealth of information at their website (ubuntulinux.org). Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 16:30:29 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:30:29 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <43B95525.1020708@golden.net> Joseph wrote: >Hello everyone, >First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! >I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. >I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. >There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? >Also how about websites and books. >You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind of >questions here. >Thanks in advance, >Joseph > > > > Welcome aboard and all the best as well. If you are looking for a book. I would suggest Marcel Gagne's "Moving to Linux Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye" Marcel is also on this list and has a website. It actually comes with a live Linux distro called Knoppix. It's now in its second edition. http://www.marcelgagne.com/mybooks.html You may want to consider playing around with some live CD versions. You don't have to install them on your hard drive because they run off the CDROM and memory only. Most if not all of them have utility to install on the hard drive if you want. If you don't have high speed Internet connection usually a request on this list will get you a copy. I like Mepis and Knoppix. I hear some good things about Ubuntu and Kbuntu. All these versions are free. Although Mepis does charge for theirs a free version is available. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 16:38:50 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:38:50 -0600 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman-fd8BhpBHabA@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/1/06, David C. Chipman wrote: > Hi Sy, > > I just have one thing to say: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a crybaby on the list. Sy, if you don't want to figure things out, go back to Windows. It's perfect for you! Later, I don't take offense at this at all.. I don't want to /have/ to figure things out. When I want to, then the ability should be there. Linux is now almost at that balance.. so I can not waste my time when I don't have any to figure random crap out, and when I do have time I can spelunk into the depths of the system as my heart desires. Windows was great to set up and get working, but it never stayed working for me, nor was it particularly forthcoming when I wanted to fiddle around. It was a ceiling when I was inspired to work harder to learn stuff. Linux was the other way around.. to get the basic things working, like X support.. I had to have mystical knowledge (like video chipset info, without having native tools to learn that) before I could use the system like a regular user. Again, thankfully there is more of a balance, so I can get a system to actually work straight out of the box, and be a regular user.. and then take spare time to learn more as I see fit, instead of being forced to spend hours on troubleshooting what a simple reboot can fix. Sure, it's offensive to want to take a shortcut and not want to learn from a problem.. but it lets me get on with my life. I've seen bunches of mysteries, some of which I've never solved.. and I'm learning to not spend time in situations where that time won't pay off. waah waahh.. I want my system to work for me.. waah it shouldn't be hard waah =p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 17:01:25 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:01:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> References: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> Message-ID: | From: Paul King | On 1 Jan 2006 at 21:12, D. Hugh Redelmeier (D. Hugh Redelmeier ) spaketh these wourdes: | | > | From: Paul King | > | This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious | | > enough. | > | > Why is it not obvious enough? I admit to knowing too little about Python. | > | | I was shown Python by a farirly keen programmer several years ago, and I remember | that it seems that instead of parentheses or begin/end, Python appears to use | only indentation to indicate scoping. While as a programmer I thought it was kind | of neat, and may even force a bit of good form into programming (imagine a | printout of a nicely-indented program being handed in for once), I still think | that a beginner needs something less subtle to see where variables have an effect | and where they don't, even sacrificing good form (they would still have to have | good form to get better marks). That may be just me. I think that indentation is a very reasonable way of indicating scope. The main problem with it is people who learned BEGIN / END or { }. Your students ought not to be in that condition. Lots of folks first see Python's use of indentation and recoil. I've not heard of problems once people try it. (I admit that this is not an air-tight observation.) Scope is a tricky concept, but the syntax of it isn't (I admit that it can be made tricky by bad language design). Dynamic scope vs static scope is the main tricky point. I think that static scope is the only sensible choice; this is where Logo falls down. I don't know which Python uses. The concept of "closures" is quite interesting but probably not part of the curriculum. Example of bad language design involving scoping: On the C++ core language mailing list right now, there is a thread about scope. Here is a bit of the first message. void foo() { std::string s = s + "Yecch!"; } This seemingly innocent example yields undefined behavior because it initializes s from its uninitialized value. | > Perhaps the problem is the curriculum. Without knowing it, I really | > cannot be sure how you can satisfy it. I do suspect that many | > teachers are just ignoring it. | | The curriculum is not language-specific, although I also suspect that many parts | of the curriculum are being ignored as well. The curiculum is likely based on "world view". Some problems don't exist in other world views. This is not always the same as solving the problem. Example: the concept of "undefined variable" is missing in some languages because all variables are born initialized to a neutral value. This does not magically fix logical errors. Example: some languages are strongly and statically typed and require programmers to work harder. This adds a fair amount of complexity to the language. Some folks (I'm one) like the resulting error checking. Some find it a waste of time. It is a barrier to entry for beginning programmers. Example: managing memory is a fairly difficult task in an reasonably sized program. It is also error-prone. In Java, the details are handled by garbage collection. But the Java programmer must make sure not to maintain a useless reference, a task he may not be equipped to do. I would guess that Turing has a great match for the curriculum. I expect Holt had some input in setting the curiculum and that he designed the language with the curriculum in mind. But that was 15 to 20 years ago. Maybe things have changed. | It is not a core course, and so | students need to be attracted to it. They don't "need" to take it. A good argument for Flash! About fifteen years ago, my wife intrigued a bunch of elementary school kids with HyperCard on the Mac. Flash could be similar (but more current). Most scripting languages are a bit sloppy for my tastes. There seems to be a life cycle in most successful scripting languages: - start as quick and dirty [enable amazing small programs] - slowly repent and correct sloppy design [large programs were a painful to build, to get right, and to be sure they were right] The problem is that it is very hard to make a language more strict without hurting your customers -- all their old programs break. I have no idea where ActionScript is in this life cycle. | The LCSI link seems to be a good one. I like the fact that it says that these are | *constructivist* tools, since constructivism is now the new educational "flavour | of the month". I'm not sure what "constructivist" means in education (I know that I could Google). I can guess. I bet it is what Papert has been talking about for 40 years. LCSI was founded by Seymour Papert, his students, and others. Papert is well known as one of the inventors of Logo and as the author of Mindstorms and other important avant garde educational stuff. He was an actual student of Piaget. So there is a pretty respectable heritage there. | I am curious as to how they see programming as being covered in a | constructivist manner. I would have thought that programming itself is | constructivist anyway, regardless of the language. CS is inherently hands-on, and | when you have a bug or syntax error, you learn from your own mistakes. You can't | get more constructivist than that. Last I talked with LCSI folks (ten years ago), they were not dealing with programming as an overt goal. Kids were using programming in Microworlds to accomplish other tasks. I don't imagine that any of their material is directed at a programming course. That did not prevent Microworlds being used to teach programming. Example (that I am making up): When a student is using Microworlds for (say) modelling a physics problem, Microworlds directs/enables them in a Constructivist way. High school students may find Microworlds' surface is aimed at too young an audience. It may well put them off. I know that there is serious stuff underneath, but that may not be apparent to the students. One tough problem in CS is to find good motivating problems. Maybe Constuctivists would focus on that. Teaching syntax for its own sake might be the opposite approach. For young kids, the Logo turtle was a wonderful come-on. Maybe flash would do the same for ActionScript. I don't know enough about what you are hoping to do to recommend a particular language. Mostly I've been trying to point out that Logo and LISP are not mistakes for the reasons you mentioned. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 18:03:49 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 12:03:49 -0600 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B685BF.70903-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43B96B05.5080208@zee4.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > While I'm normally a huge awk booster, and my awk-fu skills get heavy > use in meteorological data munging, it wouldn't make a very good > general-purpose first language. Its operational mode (basically, > execute this program for every line of the input) only works well for > text stream processing. > > If your learners are doing that, it's a very quick language to > teach/learn. I used to teach it to lexicographers for processing > dictionary text, and they always astonished me how well they took to it. > > If I were to be teaching a language, I'd want: > * block structure > * painless associative arrays/hashes (computers aren't just about > numbers) > * typelessness, for the most part (1 equals "1"; don't make me > have to worry about details) > * flexible and obvious data structure definition/use (I love Perl's > flexibility here, but the syntax would be odious to explain) > * simple graphics capabilities (maybe I'm showing my age here, but > the ability to draw stuff without having to worry about OS > dependencies would be a big help; people like pretty pictures) > * copious and sensible debugging/error messages. What about Javascript running on FireFox 1.5 (this gives you a de-bugger and graphics via and SVG)? Zoltan -- www.YYZTech.ca Toronto talks tech. www.Dine.TO Toronto's premier restaurant search engine. Get Thunderbird -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 1 23:48:48 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:48:48 Subject: ot-no free lunch In-Reply-To: References: <1135828881.6804.4.camel@vger4.dyndns.org> <43B2C4B6.9080704@telly.org> <1135828881.6804.4.camel@vger4.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20060101234848.59df28ce@mail.look.ca> At 05:57 AM 2005/12/29 -0500, teddy mills wrote: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-free-lunch_theorem >http://atheism.about.com/b/a/075366.htm >http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/legalissues/story/ 0,10801,95365,00.html >http://trends.newsforge.com/article.pl? >sid=04/03/06/139232&tid=149&tid=29&tid=31 >Wow! >This NFL-No Free Lunch phrase and theory has a wide variety of everyday >uses and applications. >I was using the NFL from animal behavior/training. >Then there are a lot of IT companies using NFL to describe the Linux >open source model. >Then there is a No Free Lunch branch of mathematics and theory. >The No Free Lunch theory and how it applies to all computer algorithms >is fascinating. >Equally fascinating is the NFL thoerem applied to biological systems >like evolution. >However, the argument it states NFL is not applicable to evolution, >since evolution is not trying to reach a pre-defined goal. (sort of) >Basically it seems, they are all related. No Free Lunch theory is >applicable to so many everyday things. >There is no free lunch! >So is this why google and all the search engines dont work as well as >you'd like? :) >/teddy Consider Mr. Robert Anson Heinlein, who made famous the acronym: TANSTAAFL ! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch ! He was best known as the author of: Stranger in a Strange Land which was very influential in the origin of the hippy movement. Jim McIntosh --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 17:27:14 2006 From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:27:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <40952.66.11.182.5.1136222834.squirrel@cbits.ca> Mandrake Linux is a good distro to learn on, it's the first distribution I used. I now use Gentoo linux, but it is more advanced. > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind > of > questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 17:25:07 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 12:25:07 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/1/06, David C. Chipman wrote: > >> Hi Sy, >> >> I just have one thing to say: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a crybaby on the list. Sy, if you don't want to figure things out, go back to Windows. It's perfect for you! Later, > > > I don't take offense at this at all.. > > I don't want to /have/ to figure things out. When I want to, then the > ability should be there. Linux is now almost at that balance.. so I > can not waste my time when I don't have any to figure random crap out, > and when I do have time I can spelunk into the depths of the system as > my heart desires. > > Windows was great to set up and get working, but it never stayed > working for me, nor was it particularly forthcoming when I wanted to > fiddle around. It was a ceiling when I was inspired to work harder to > learn stuff. > > Linux was the other way around.. to get the basic things working, like > X support.. I had to have mystical knowledge (like video chipset info, > without having native tools to learn that) before I could use the > system like a regular user. > > Again, thankfully there is more of a balance, so I can get a system to > actually work straight out of the box, and be a regular user.. and > then take spare time to learn more as I see fit, instead of being > forced to spend hours on troubleshooting what a simple reboot can fix. > > Sure, it's offensive to want to take a shortcut and not want to learn > from a problem.. but it lets me get on with my life. I've seen > bunches of mysteries, some of which I've never solved.. and I'm > learning to not spend time in situations where that time won't pay > off. > > waah waahh.. I want my system to work for me.. waah it shouldn't be > hard waah =p Happy New Year, Sy and I can relate to this. Some years back, I started watching movies on my computer. I watched foreign VCDs, rented DVDs among others. I used Mplayer, Xine, VLC and Ogle. After a long day of work, you rent a movie for 2 days (sometimes 1), you want it to just work. You want to kick back, chill and enjoy. You don't want to have to get it working and deprive yourself of time better used for sleeping, family or whatever. Also, one DVD may work but not the next due to different formats or whatever. After a while, I watched movies on Windows unless I had the time and the inclination to watch it using Linux. Now, the mediaplayers in Linux are much better and I (hopefully) know a bit more :-) Still, some weeks back, I had 1 movie playing in Xine but without subtitles while VLC had no problem whatsoever. It could have been just a matter of configuration but I had no interest. VLC by default worked fine and I spent the time playing with some other aspect of Linux. My 2 cents :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 17:30:20 2006 From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:30:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <40952.66.11.182.5.1136222834.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> <40952.66.11.182.5.1136222834.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <40980.66.11.182.5.1136223020.squirrel@cbits.ca> > Mandrake Linux is a good distro to learn on, it's the first distribution I > used. I now use Gentoo linux, but it is more advanced. Oops, it is now called Mandriva Linux >> Hello everyone, >> First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! >> I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 >> years. >> I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. >> There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? >> Also how about websites and books. >> You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these >> kind >> of >> questions here. >> Thanks in advance, >> Joseph >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 17:44:55 2006 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:44:55 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B8CB37.9050606-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20CBDA18-2E7C-45BF-B1BA-BC2777E26CD8@rogers.com> Hi Madison Are you sure a web browser is the best way to run this script? Or maybe you need to re-structure things slightly to make it better fit the web paradigm? The reason I say this is that the web is intrinsically an interactive medium, maybe static, maybe dynamic, but always immediate response, for some definition of 'immediate'. Read Jakob Nielsen's excellent essay "Response Times: The Three Important Limits" at http:// www.useit.com/papers/responsetime.html for a discussion of people's reactions to various response rates. I would suggest that if you need to run a script which takes more than 30 seconds to run, there might be a better solution than invoking it as an ordinary CGI: * If the event can be scheduled, invoke it as a cron job; the summary can be sent out as an email or be available on a web page. * If the event cannot be scheduled, because it depends on the user in some way, let it be invoked as a CGI, but then return a page saying the job is running. You can then send off an email when the job is done, with a report on the completed work, or with a URL to a reporting CGI that examines the appropriate log file, using an ID code passed to it. If the report really needs to be interactive, you might consider an AJAX script for the reply page. Javascript on the page can invoke a reporting CGI script, passing it an ID, and get back the most recent entries from the log file. The reply page could simply display raw log entries, or summarize them: "Examining files to back up: 137 files to backup, 53% examined."; and later on, "Backing up files: 17 of 237 files; 146 of 913 MB", and later still, "Verifying files: 76% complete". Better still if the reports can provide an estimate of time remaining for each phase. But I wonder whether someone would really want to sit an watch such a report accumulate gradually. Not my, I want to go do other fun stuff, if nothing else, check to see if there's a new Jakob Nielsen or Paul graham or Robert Cringley column to read. I suspect people might go the interactive route the first couple of times, to be sure things are working the way they want, but after that they'll settle for the summary email at the end. Tom Legrady On 2-Jan-06, at 1:41 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a > connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to > respond? > > The reason I ask is that my perl program tries to spit out data > to the browser every 30 seconds during a big job to keep the > connection alive (I turn off buffering) but sometimes an external > program I call holds things up for too long and the connection dies > anyway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 18:37:22 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:37:22 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <40980.66.11.182.5.1136223020.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <40980.66.11.182.5.1136223020.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <000401c60fcb$91fe07c0$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks Jason -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jason Carson Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:30 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux > Mandrake Linux is a good distro to learn on, it's the first > distribution I used. I now use Gentoo linux, but it is more advanced. Oops, it is now called Mandriva Linux >> Hello everyone, >> First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! >> I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 >> years. >> I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. >> There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? >> Also how about websites and books. >> You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these >> kind of questions here. >> Thanks in advance, >> Joseph >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How >> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 18:40:08 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:40:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> Message-ID: <50094.207.188.65.194.1136227208.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Most scripting languages are a bit sloppy for my tastes. There seems > to be a life cycle in most successful scripting languages: > > - start as quick and dirty [enable amazing small programs] > > - slowly repent and correct sloppy design [large programs were a > painful to build, to get right, and to be sure they were right] > > The problem is that it is very hard to make a language more strict > without hurting your customers -- all their old programs break. As you know, I'm a great fan of the Tcl/Tk scripting language for controlling electronic equipment. But I think Hugh's observation is correct - we usually deal with relatively modest programs and, for example, the issue of controlling the scope of variables was included in Tcl/Tk as an add-on fix. In my view, there is no ideal computer language for every application - competent practitioners use different languages for different purposes. With regard to teaching a computer language at the university, students should be able to learn the syntax on their own, so that the focus is on different language concepts. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Professor Emeritus, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ryerson University 416-465-3007 www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 19:35:06 2006 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:35:06 -0500 Subject: FireFox 1.5 Slow Message-ID: <1136230506.5348.83.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Hey, I just upgraded to FireFox 1.5 this morning (although I downloaded it a week ago so things may have changed) and it has been extremely frustrating so far. Everything I do in is taking a lot longer. For example, I have 5 tabs open and when I click on one, my cpu usage shoots up and it takes a few seconds before I can focus anything. Everything was fine before I upgraded. Now I realize that it could be an extension I am using but I just wanted to see if anyone else if having this problem before I uninstall all my extensions. I just installed the extension fasterfox to see if that helps but I shouldn't need an extension to make firefox run at a normal speed. I am using Mandrake 10.1 but nothing has changed on my computer from my install of 1.07 and 1.5. What about newer versions, like cvs versions. Is anyone using them? Thanks for any help. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 21:41:18 2006 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:41:18 -0500 Subject: FireFox 1.5 Slow In-Reply-To: <1136230506.5348.83.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1136230506.5348.83.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <1136238078.5348.102.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Nevermind. I un-installed some of my extensions and it is now lightening fast. Pages that were taking 23 seconds are now taking 3. I guess you have to be careful what extensions you install. Thanks. On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 14:35 -0500, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I just upgraded to FireFox 1.5 this morning (although I downloaded it a > week ago so things may have changed) and it has been extremely > frustrating so far. Everything I do in is taking a lot longer. For > example, I have 5 tabs open and when I click on one, my cpu usage shoots > up and it takes a few seconds before I can focus anything. Everything > was fine before I upgraded. Now I realize that it could be an extension > I am using but I just wanted to see if anyone else if having this > problem before I uninstall all my extensions. I just installed the > extension fasterfox to see if that helps but I shouldn't need an > extension to make firefox run at a normal speed. I am using Mandrake > 10.1 but nothing has changed on my computer from my install of 1.07 and > 1.5. What about newer versions, like cvs versions. Is anyone using > them? > > Thanks for any help. > -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 22:02:53 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:02:53 -0500 Subject: Meetings In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c60fe8$48084a50$81fbc645@unipc> Hi, Are emails sent out for meetings that provide info on what the topic of the meeting will be? Also are there fees associated with TLUG. Are there entrance fees for the meetings? Thanks, joseph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 22:03:26 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:03:26 +0200 (IST) Subject: FireFox 1.5 Slow In-Reply-To: <1136230506.5348.83.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1136230506.5348.83.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I just upgraded to FireFox 1.5 this morning (although I downloaded it a > week ago so things may have changed) and it has been extremely > frustrating so far. Everything I do in is taking a lot longer. For > example, I have 5 tabs open and when I click on one, my cpu usage shoots > up and it takes a few seconds before I can focus anything. Everything > was fine before I upgraded. Now I realize that it could be an extension > I am using but I just wanted to see if anyone else if having this > problem before I uninstall all my extensions. I just installed the > extension fasterfox to see if that helps but I shouldn't need an > extension to make firefox run at a normal speed. I am using Mandrake > 10.1 but nothing has changed on my computer from my install of 1.07 and > 1.5. What about newer versions, like cvs versions. Is anyone using > them? Turn off Java and then get the flashblock extension, and use it. See if any of these make a difference. I have seen that more than 80% of sites use flash for advertising. The system load is immense. Also Java widgets tend to hang around and clog the system without doing anything useful. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 22:13:49 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:13:49 -0500 Subject: Meetings In-Reply-To: <000001c60fe8$48084a50$81fbc645@unipc> References: <000001c60fe8$48084a50$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <43B9A59D.6070409@alteeve.com> Joseph wrote: > Hi, > Are emails sent out for meetings that provide info on what the topic of the > meeting will be? > Also are there fees associated with TLUG. Are there entrance fees for the > meetings? > Thanks, > joseph Info on upcoming meetings can be found here: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Main_Page There is no fee to go, it's "open house" so to speak. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 22:32:42 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:32:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd:Meetings Message-ID: <20060102223242.55621.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Joseph wrote: > Hi, > Are emails sent out for meetings that provide info > on what the topic of the > meeting will be? Normally yes (over the years there have been RARE problems, but baring weirdness yes there will be a short announcement noting the speaker and the topic of the talk 24 - 48 hours before the meeting). > Also are there fees associated with TLUG. Are there > entrance fees for the > meetings? No entrance fees. If you are in staving student mode, you should know that what happens is that after the meetings there is a large group that will walk over to a pub near the meeting location for glasses of beer and/or other beverages, so bring along a few bucks, but ... > Thanks, > joseph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 23:03:03 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:03:03 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B8CB37.9050606-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43B9B127.1060902@georgetown.wehave.net> Madison Kelly wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a > connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to > respond? I recall something called non-parsed header (NPH). No idea if this will help you, or even precisely what it does ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 2 23:19:49 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:19:49 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> Message-ID: <43B96EC5.4781.1960938D@localhost> On 2 Jan 2006 at 12:01, D. Hugh Redelmeier (D. Hugh Redelmeier ) spaketh these wourdes: > I have no idea where ActionScript is in this life cycle. > ActionScript is into Version 3, now that it is no longer a Macromedia product (Adobe closed the deal to acquire Macromedia in mid-December). As of version 2, it is object-oriented to the point where you can make your own objects, but the scoping in version 2 was still, to me at least, a hodgepodge of scoping to timelines, graphics, curly brackets, with no unified place to place all your code. It appears as though for most things you need to click on an object or timeline, then Flash opens up a new editing buffer for it and you just write code for that object. If a visual object has a timeline, it is not clear to me when you attach the code to the object and when you attach it to the timeline. Everything is too tied to the interface to be sure of anything, especially when things get bigger and bigger. On the actionscript newsgroups, there appears to be general agreement that AS's biggest drawback is in how the editor handles the code, by segmenting it in the way I described. To contrast with Visual Basic, at least if you are tying code to a button or other object, all of the code for the same form lies in a single source file. Flash only shows code with the object you selected, and hides the rest of the code from you. Visual Basic uses a single buffer for all of your code (unless you desire to use external code), but Flash has multiple buffers with a chunk of code here and a chunk of code there. You can use external code in Flash, also. > | The LCSI link seems to be a good one. I like the fact that it says that these are > | *constructivist* tools, since constructivism is now the new educational "flavour > | of the month". > > I'm not sure what "constructivist" means in education (I know that I > could Google). I can guess. I bet it is what Papert has been > talking about for 40 years. Papert has been discussing teaching by "construction", but constructivism seems to be somewhat different. Constructivism can be applied to English, Social Studies, Art, Math, and anything else. Constructivism is based on the notion that children need to "construct" their own meanings and definitions and relationships out of the activities in front of them (which could be a poster board activity or whatnot, depending on what the content of the lesson is). They are asked to recognise patterns for themselves, and derive relationships for themselves through "hands-on" activities. Constructivist theorists believe that they are supported by what is known from the workings of the brain. The more we learn, the more neural connections we make. We make the learning experience our own by recognising patterns, classifying, and so on. It is now believed by constructivists that the way we learn is by making associations. And when we do learn, new neural pathways are made to store the learning. And the more learning we do, the faster we will pick up on new learning, since many new neural connections are already there. And as I said, if you are busy coding away, you are going to learn many things in a constructivist sense anyway, especially regarding things like computer math, and syntax rules, even when you are told in advance what the proper syntax is. And of course the big payoff comes when you see it all work. > > LCSI was founded by Seymour Papert, his students, and others. Papert > is well known as one of the inventors of Logo and as the author of > Mindstorms and other important avant garde educational stuff. He was > an actual student of Piaget. So there is a pretty respectable > heritage there. > Very interesting. I ought to read up some more on him I suppose. > | I am curious as to how they see programming as being covered in a > | constructivist manner. I would have thought that programming itself is > | constructivist anyway, regardless of the language. CS is inherently hands-on, and > | when you have a bug or syntax error, you learn from your own mistakes. You can't > | get more constructivist than that. > > Last I talked with LCSI folks (ten years ago), they were not dealing > with programming as an overt goal. Kids were using programming in > Microworlds to accomplish other tasks. I don't imagine that any of > their material is directed at a programming course. That did not > prevent Microworlds being used to teach programming. >From the website, it appears as though programming is still not an overt goal. But their approaches to science and math still interest me, since I can teach them as well. > > Example (that I am making up): > When a student is using Microworlds for (say) modelling a physics > problem, Microworlds directs/enables them in a Constructivist way. > This means that kids are directed to both ask and answer "the right question" about their activity, and not just ask any old question. While constructivism must be somewhat open-ended, you as the teacher have objectives to teach, and therefore things can't be too open-ended. All of the kids have to learn as a class. And there is usually a test at the end, so they have to all get exposure to the same questions, one way or another. > High school students may find Microworlds' surface is aimed at too > young an audience. It may well put them off. I know that there is > serious stuff underneath, but that may not be apparent to the > students. > > One tough problem in CS is to find good motivating problems. Maybe > Constuctivists would focus on that. Yes, that has always been difficult. But I am not sure if constructivism per se will provide more motivating problems. Constructivism has to do with the student's individual learning style. Although now that I think of it, concepts such as recursion (another Grade 11 topic) could be well served by a constructivist activity. > Teaching syntax for its own sake > might be the opposite approach. > You can't avoid doing that, anyway. > For young kids, the Logo turtle was a wonderful come-on. Maybe flash > would do the same for ActionScript. > > > I don't know enough about what you are hoping to do to recommend a > particular language. Mostly I've been trying to point out that > Logo and LISP are not mistakes for the reasons you mentioned. I was just fishing for language suggestions that have an impact on a Grade 11 student similar to ActionScript without the syntax and editing horrors I mentioned in this and previous posts. Thanks for your insights. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 00:03:48 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:03:48 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B9B127.1060902-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> <43B9B127.1060902@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43B9BF64.9090507@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a >> connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to >> respond? > > > I recall something called non-parsed header (NPH). No idea if this will > help you, or even precisely what it does ;-) Huh, that might just do it! I am reading up on it now (O'Reilly has an article on it). Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 00:22:24 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:22:24 -0500 Subject: Some grub questions Message-ID: Hi all, Thank you a lot Joseph Kubik and Paul Mora for your assistance in earlier question. I am now dual booting Fedora 4 and Ubantu nicely. This save all my music (On Ubantu) and I can practice for Red Hat. Turned out a good way of learning grub inside out, well except I still have a couple of question I would like some help on. Why does Linux need the file initrd.img-2.6.* ? My understanding is, its where the kernel is hosted and end up on the swap partation when the system is up. Now what doesn't add up is why save it in the hard disk, instead of making a copy right from the Kernel while the system is going up? I have been googling about for update-grub scripts. The articles out there mention it when discussing other topics, but I haven't come across an article with the script as the primary subject. Anyone know of such an article for a curious person? finally, what designate a root partation. My understanding is its the partation that holds /sbin/init. Now, my default ubantu installation pointed the root to partation 5, while init was on partation 1, throwing the whole hypothesis out of the window. How can one explain that configuration. See your /boot/grub/menu.list for what I am saying if I happen to be ambiguous. Thank you a lot in advance for your assistance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 01:51:10 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:51:10 -0500 Subject: Some grub questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/2/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > > Why does Linux need the file initrd.img-2.6.* ? My understanding is, > its where the kernel is hosted and end up on the swap partation when > the system is up. Now what doesn't add up is why save it in the hard > disk, instead of making a copy right from the Kernel while the system > is going up? The initrd image file contains kernel modules that are required for the root filesystem to be enabled on boot. Most distributions compile the filesystem drivers as loadable modules instead of statically in the kernel. However, on boot, the kernel has no way of accessing these modules, because they sit on the disk. The initrd image is, essentially, a very small root filesystem which just contains the modules needed to mount the root filesystem. Once that's done, it gets tossed. (It's actually a gzip compressed ext2 filesystem; you can uncompress and mount it to see what's inside). I have been googling about for update-grub scripts. The articles out > there mention it when discussing other topics, but I haven't come > across an article with the script as the primary subject. Anyone know > of such an article for a curious person? Not sure what you're looking for here. Scripts that auto-update grub? finally, what designate a root partation. My understanding is its the > partation that holds /sbin/init. Now, my default ubantu installation > pointed the root to partation 5, while init was on partation 1, > throwing the whole hypothesis out of the window. How can one explain > that configuration. See your /boot/grub/menu.list for what I am saying > if I happen to be ambiguous. You're getting confused between the Linux "root" filesystem, and the GRUB "root" partition. They are totally different. In GRUB, the "root" directive always points to the partition where the kernel and initrd image files are located. If, during installation, a partition was created for "/boot", then that's the device GRUB will use for the "root" directive. This is what Ubuntu does during installation. If /boot is in the / (root) filesystem, then it will point there. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 02:09:10 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:09:10 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43B961F3.1080201-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: I, too, am getting to the point with Linux where I just don't have the time/patience/brain cells to spend getting something that, in my mind, should be easy, to work I've been working with Linux since 0.96 of the kernel, and have spent countless hours shoe-horning it onto all sorts of hardware. Maybe it's age... I find idea of spending hours just getting a DVD movie to play or installing a new version of OpenOffice.org very unappealing. I have better things to do with my time. That doesn't mean that I like Windows. I love the fact that when I have to dig deep into the OS, I can. But a lot of what I do on Linux systems these days should be simple enough to work out of the box. My crybaby rant... ;-) pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 02:13:36 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:13:36 -0500 Subject: Some grub questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43B9DDD0.3040100@georgetown.wehave.net> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > I have been googling about for update-grub scripts. The articles out > there mention it when discussing other topics, but I haven't come > across an article with the script as the primary subject. Anyone know > of such an article for a curious person? update-grub discovers which kernels are available on your system and updates grub config file (menu.lst) so that they are selectable from your grub menu on boot. update-grub might be Debian specific, not sure. update-grub should get called automatically whenever a packaged kernel is installed or removed. On Debian derived systems /etc/kernel-img.conf controls this, here are the contents of my Ubuntu kernel-img.conf: do_symlinks = yes relative_links = yes do_bootloader = no do_bootfloppy = no do_initrd = yes link_in_boot = yes postinst_hook = /sbin/update-grub postrm_hook = /sbin/update-grub The above may not be Ubuntu default, I may have changed it myself, don't recall. On Debian I always had to edit /etc/kernel-img.conf myself (almost identically to above). You're not likely to find documentation on update-grub. The best you'll get is the manpage (man update-grub). Since update-grub is a script if you really want to understand it, read through it ... *everything* it does is wide open for your enjoyment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 03:21:21 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:21:21 -0500 Subject: ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <43B2AF8C.5000102-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1e55af990601021921l40bf0850ub85fb3695e4718d5@mail.gmail.com> > teddy mills wrote: > > >There is the idea of No Free Lunch. > > > >That basically means as I understand it, anything that is free, or you > >dont have to work for it, has no or very little value to you. This is a very interesting idea, and while I respect it.. it doesn't apply to me. Some people will perceive the invested effort as being negative if they believe that it could have been avoided through better design, documentation, etc.. Software having demonstrated the varying levels of quality it has, there have indeed been some stellar user experiences when it comes to certain applications or what have you. If a user has experienced such things, it is very likely that they will place all other software on the same level. Even if this elevation of expectation is separated a bit.. so that a windows user understands that the game is somehow different for linux software (professional vs hobbyiest software) as soon as they start to taste the quality in a new niche of software they're exploring those expectations spread to more applications. Take me for example, because I was brought up on DOS, I have expectations of that level of quality (and user experience, but let's not go down that road).. and because I have that background I can't understand why basic command-line help doesn't exist for applications. Man pages do not compare to what most programs in dos offer with /? (i.e. an explanation of what the program does, and examples). So, while I could suspend my disbelief and just letting man pages be what they are.. it's very very hard. .. that is one angle. Yes, for some (and including myself in some cases) investing effort breeds a sense of self-worth and will elevate the perceived value in the experience.. "aah, I configured it all the way I want.. this is great". However, I will restate that if that effort is perceived as having been something which could have been avoidable with the aid of better design and development then that investment in effort will backfire. This is most easily seen when people have limited ability, interest or time to explore. I used to feel good about getting dosemu to work, now I expect that and even wine to work out of the box. I used to feel good about getting blackbox customized and working, now I expect it to be one of many options on a livecd. .. I think I've been spoiled. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 03:27:06 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:27:06 -0500 Subject: ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <43B2AF8C.5000102-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1e55af990601021927w4219911fx3e88fd906b173dbb@mail.gmail.com> On 12/28/05, Paul Sutton wrote: > some examples of UI problems I totally agree. I think that it's becoming easier for me to see the calibre of work which has gone into the UI design of a lot of the popular software out there. Linux applications have gotten spectacularly more easy to use. I did everything via the commandline when I started, and now I'm learning to throw it all away and do things graphically. I'm even stopping to learn the "normal user" way of doing things so I can bury the arcane knowledge. I'm very hopeful in things improving. I'm even starting to bite my tongue about some of the problems that still bug me, because many of my past annoyances have been solved. > Get the base system working, theh give average person out there, the > tools they need. I agree. Put things in their logical places.. make things findable and obvious. For example, I like the idea that a program can explain itself with good design choices so that documentation becomes less and less important in the user's experience. I'm very pleased with the "user friendly" distributions which have been coming out. I think there are a bunch of dangers with many of them because they are treading too hard on issues of system security but things seem hopeful to me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 03:38:11 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:38:11 -0500 Subject: OT: Summary of this years events in your (Linux/Computer) life In-Reply-To: References: <43B6EC01.1030902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601021938n75219d76hfbfb7dc431d964dd@mail.gmail.com> I completely switched to PCLinuxOS at home and at work. I am working out a plan to never use a non-free OS at work again. I have completely broken my addiction for that blue-screening legacy operating system. I've done this before, but now there is no application that I miss. Ok, maybe Brood Wars.. I got graphics acceleration working with demos and games. My data is now completely encrypted in a form that can be backed up by something without root permissions. I have celebrated by getting a 24" widescreen LCD.. which works perfectly under Linux with no wacky configuration at all. 1920x1200 was autodetected and worked fine on the first boot. I had issues with X with one single user, but that's X.. it's hopeless. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 03:55:44 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:55:44 -0500 Subject: ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601021927w4219911fx3e88fd906b173dbb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> <1e55af990601021927w4219911fx3e88fd906b173dbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I'm very pleased with the "user friendly" distributions which have > been coming out. I think there are a bunch of dangers with many of > them because they are treading too hard on issues of system security > but things seem hopeful to me. I can't agree more. Ubantu handle security well, but I was not happy that their install CD don't understand "linux rescue" option. You feed the kernel that boot option and the distribution race right into graphical install mode. I was expecting it to say invalid option at least. With the way it currently behave, you can wipe your hard disk thinking you are rescuing the system. William On 1/2/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 12/28/05, Paul Sutton wrote: > > some examples of UI problems > > > I totally agree. I think that it's becoming easier for me to see the > calibre of work which has gone into the UI design of a lot of the > popular software out there. > > Linux applications have gotten spectacularly more easy to use. I did > everything via the commandline when I started, and now I'm learning to > throw it all away and do things graphically. I'm even stopping to > learn the "normal user" way of doing things so I can bury the arcane > knowledge. > > I'm very hopeful in things improving. I'm even starting to bite my > tongue about some of the problems that still bug me, because many of > my past annoyances have been solved. > > > > Get the base system working, theh give average person out there, the > > tools they need. > > I agree. Put things in their logical places.. make things findable > and obvious. For example, I like the idea that a program can explain > itself with good design choices so that documentation becomes less and > less important in the user's experience. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 04:29:20 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:29:20 -0500 Subject: Fixing application networking issues Message-ID: Hi, I have encountered an issue where firefox does not go out and download a page after typing the url address. I usually do a couple of things: *Use ifconfig and see if I can see the network card. *Ping loop back and a reliable server out there (bbc) Most time, this show things are alright (On the operating sys level) Now, the only thing I do on the browser is type in IP address. If that don't work, I boot (Not a good idea in *nux world, but..) The question is, how can one go about find a problem between an application (firefox) and OS? Any trick is appreaciated. Thank you William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 04:30:29 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:30:29 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003f01c60fb3$7f6c1470$81fbc645@unipc> References: <1136212750.26755.35.camel@holden.weait.net> <003f01c60fb3$7f6c1470$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <1e55af990601022030j6c5e4d25we393a91f2fd0a48a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: > I will try to make it to the next meeting that you have. How much is the > entrance fee? There's no charge for attending a meeting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 04:30:38 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:30:38 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: References: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> I have had those feelings too. And for me it is more because the computer has become for me less of a play-toy and more of a tool to use for serious work. It has become increasingly central to what I am doing at work and also at home. All would have been right with my world had everything stood still at kernel 1.2.13, and programmers made their s/w using only static libs. An excellent example is version 6 ov WordPerfect for Linux, which doesn't care what version of glibc you use or about the kernel or hardware. All functionality is internal to their own static libs. Since kernel version 2.4 things have gotten increasingly complex for me - both with Linux and other aspects of my life. And so I haven't been able to take the time to learn the new stuff. ANd recently I haven't updated my Linux versions. I am still at Fedora 3, and plan to stay there for quite a while. It appears as though things are coming along slowly for me, but I have been able to configure email, my palm pilot, and several other things quite successfully. I think now what I have, like it or not, has become the household equivalent of a mission-critical system, which would be better off left alone rather than subject to hardware upgrades (unless something blows) or wholesale linux reinstallations. After years of, like you, shoe-horning Linux into tons of hardware, I have instead begun to feel that the real intent of an operating system is to actually use it. I will probably still spend long periods getting software "xyz" to work, but that only has to be done once, and it only becomes a pain for me if I have to do it again on new hardware within a short period. I have no plans on doing that for some time. Paul King On 2 Jan 2006 at 21:09, Paul Mora (Paul Mora ) spaketh these wourdes: > I, too, am getting to the point with Linux where I just don't have the > time/patience/brain cells to spend getting something that, in my mind, > should be easy, to work I've been working with Linux since 0.96 of the > kernel, and have spent countless hours shoe-horning it onto all sorts of > hardware. > > Maybe it's age... I find idea of spending hours just getting a DVD movie to > play or installing a new version of OpenOffice.org very unappealing. I have > better things to do with my time. > > That doesn't mean that I like Windows. I love the fact that when I have to > dig deep into the OS, I can. But a lot of what I do on Linux systems these > days should be simple enough to work out of the box. > > My crybaby rant... ;-) > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 04:39:02 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:39:02 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> References: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> Message-ID: <1e55af990601022039j39e4ab0fqbf4ab84bc074b9c3@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/06, Paul King wrote: > I have had those feelings too. And for me it is more because the computer has > become for me less of a play-toy and more of a tool to use for serious work. It > has become increasingly central to what I am doing at work and also at home. That's exactly it.. I think about it more and more.. and yes, as I've grown older with computers as a part of my life I'm leaning on them more as tools and less as toys. I'm valuing more of my time at a computer for doing "work" than for exploration and play. I've also become exponentially more productive.. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 04:48:12 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:48:12 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601022039j39e4ab0fqbf4ab84bc074b9c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> <1e55af990601022039j39e4ab0fqbf4ab84bc074b9c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BA020C.7080700@pppoe.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/2/06, Paul King wrote: > >>I have had those feelings too. And for me it is more because the computer has >>become for me less of a play-toy and more of a tool to use for serious work. It >>has become increasingly central to what I am doing at work and also at home. > > > That's exactly it.. I think about it more and more.. and yes, as I've > grown older with computers as a part of my life I'm leaning on them > more as tools and less as toys. I'm valuing more of my time at a > computer for doing "work" than for exploration and play. > > I've also become exponentially more productive.. =) This seems to be a deviant trend starting in the new year. Is this related to the cult N(ot)TLUG that is rumoured to exist :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 05:12:20 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:12:20 -0500 Subject: Fixing application networking issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There "should" not be a problem between firefox and the OS. The set of steps to follow would be: 1. Does firefox load the page? 2. If not, does your computer have an IP address? (ifconfig) 3. Do you have a good route? Can you ping your default router? (look at the route command and the ping command) 4. Are you using a good DNS server? (look at /etc/resolv.conf) 5. Is your firewall allowing http through? If all of those don't help, you might have a busted browser, but I don't think you will find that to be the case. -Joseph- On 1/2/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > I have encountered an issue where firefox does not go out and > download a page after typing the url address. I usually do a couple of > things: > *Use ifconfig and see if I can see the network card. > *Ping loop back and a reliable server out there (bbc) > Most time, this show things are alright (On the operating sys level) > Now, the only thing I do on the browser is type in IP address. If > that don't work, I boot (Not a good idea in *nux world, but..) > The question is, how can one go about find a problem between an > application (firefox) and OS? Any trick is appreaciated. > > Thank you > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 05:19:46 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:19:46 -0500 Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless Message-ID: While trying to get linux wireless to work, something easy to forget is the DHCP server. For many Linux distros the sudo command, "pump" should work. I use KWifiManager, to get an idea of what the connection rate is. I use ping to see how reliable the connection is, how many dropped packets etc. Has anyone used the WPA_Supplicant over wireless yet, and made a WPA connection? /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 06:58:59 2006 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:58:59 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43BA020C.7080700-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> <1e55af990601022039j39e4ab0fqbf4ab84bc074b9c3@mail.gmail.com> <43BA020C.7080700@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <22318ee50601022258h29400b7fheb83b9f838990d9c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > On 1/2/06, Paul King wrote: > > > >>I have had those feelings too. And for me it is more because the computer has > >>become for me less of a play-toy and more of a tool to use for serious work. It > >>has become increasingly central to what I am doing at work and also at home. > > > > > > That's exactly it.. I think about it more and more.. and yes, as I've > > grown older with computers as a part of my life I'm leaning on them > > more as tools and less as toys. I'm valuing more of my time at a > > computer for doing "work" than for exploration and play. > > > > I've also become exponentially more productive.. =) > At some point 2 or 3 years ago free operating systems and free software became central to my work as apposed to something I personally did for fun or for a few marginal clients. It was probably around the time where I moved more than half my clients away from proprietary software for the solutions I was developing or supporting. My clients for the most part don't mind (or care) if their servers are running OpenBSD or Linux, or that their intranet web site is Apache and Perl on that old Mac in the corner that's running OS X. And if they insist on running the web server on Win2K, it doesn't matter if it's AMP underneath the hood. However when something breaks they do suddenly care and mind and tell me all about it. Someone on this list mentioned that it took him four tries to set up RAID in Ubuntu, even though he did (as far as he could tell) the same things each time. That's unacceptable. Computers should just work. They're tools. If I buy a hammer (or someone gives one to me), I don't want it telling me that I don't have the right handle and that I have to carve one from scratch or that I have to get a file and reshape the head. I just want it to do its job. Of course, this problem is not unique to FOSS, but is rife in the software industry in general. The bottom line is that I would rather be doing the things that my clients pay me for rather than troubleshooting obscure software/hardware incompatibilities. Often the latter falls outside the scope of my contracts and I can't bill the clients for the hours I've spent fighting with things that "should just work" and I have to figuratively eat my time; then both I and the cats literally don't get to eat. //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 07:39:21 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:39:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060101172252.GA10613@ettin> References: <20060101172252.GA10613@ettin> Message-ID: <20060103073921.59788.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A healthy balance is nececessary! However, I LOVE TO WORK! And I don't need a toxic whipping supervisor/Boss on my back! I am NOT anybody's YES MAN. I have my own opinions which often clash with the popular culture/opinions. Technically I am on the same wavelenghth as those brilliant talented folks out there (a fraction of a percent of the population). Chris --- Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 06:25:38PM -0800, > Christopher Charles wrote: > >I despise the work culture in canada. Full of lazy > >people who don't care about their work! > > There is the other side. The work place can be full > of employers who > expect employees work as if it is the most important > event in their > lives. Employees should be so enthralled with work > that they willing > sacrifice all of there personal time with little or > no compensation. > > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > Network Administrator | Uptime 5 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) > MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 09:11:40 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:11:40 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B96EC5.4781.1960938D@localhost> References: <43B8FC3B.25244.17A12622@localhost> <43B96EC5.4781.1960938D@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Paul King wrote: > ActionScript is into Version 3, now that it is no longer a Macromedia product > (Adobe closed the deal to acquire Macromedia in mid-December). As of version 2, > it is object-oriented to the point where you can make your own objects, but the > scoping in version 2 was still, to me at least, a hodgepodge of scoping to > timelines, graphics, curly brackets, with no unified place to place all your > code. It appears as though for most things you need to click on an object or > timeline, then Flash opens up a new editing buffer for it and you just write code > for that object. If a visual object has a timeline, it is not clear to me when > you attach the code to the object and when you attach it to the timeline. > Everything is too tied to the interface to be sure of anything, especially when > things get bigger and bigger. On the actionscript newsgroups, there appears to be > general agreement that AS's biggest drawback is in how the editor handles the > code, by segmenting it in the way I described. You can write as without a gui using data from http://www.actionscripts.org/ . It has a strong Java flavor when used like this, with a 'document' model reminiscent of DOM. Of course the output is a gui and you can interact with it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 09:44:36 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 04:44:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, teddy mills wrote: > Has anyone used the WPA_Supplicant over wireless yet, and made a WPA > connection? Yep. We're using WPA_Supplicant in a project. This is just with a pre-shared key for now, although this may change. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to set up (under Debian). Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 09:53:38 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 04:53:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Optimized distro for i686 In-Reply-To: References: <43B52BA7.7060800@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > The trouble is that sometimes bugs emerge when you use unusual > compiler options; figuring out what flags are safe is something of a > package-by-package thing. Universally applying all the same compiler > options everywhere doesn't work. I would revise this by saying "universally applying all the same compiler options everywhere" might not work. Of course even "might not work" is highly undesirable. Aggressive optimisation and various other compiler flags can make significant changes in resulting code. > It's not at all obvious that the result will actually be meaningfully > faster. For instance, database apps tend to have disk I/O as their > bottleneck, and changing compiler options can't change that. Bingo. System optimisation is a complex issue and it's entirely possible that the changes caused by recompiling everything may save you nothing (or even make things worse). It's important to know what the performance problem is before selecting a solution. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 13:36:51 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:36:51 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> References: <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6F905.18127.FC49C65@localhost> Message-ID: <43BA7DF3.3020004@sympatico.ca> Paul King wrote: > >>>* painless associative arrays/hashes (computers aren't just about >>> numbers) > > OK, but you still need an numerically-indexed array to show them first, so that > they can see why this is a good idea (and why sometimes it is not). I'm not so sure. There's no useful real-world analogue to an array ('storing things in numbered boxes' was what I was taught at school, on BBC Basic). The hash is more of a mnemonic, and is more easily grasped, I think. It depends if you need to teach "How to do X" against "How the computer does X". > No dice. You need to teach data types as part of the Ontario curriculum (the fact > that some teachers are probably still teaching QBasic notwithstanding). Well, integer% is still a data type ;-) I do wish that MS had reimplemented the bits of BASIC they knocked out in the micro days, when they had the chance. The matrix functions were sorely missed. > The more room for "flexibility", the less room for "obviousness". Maybe so. Maybe that's why I haven't found that language. Yanni Chiu wrote: > > Have you ever looked at Smalltalk? It satisfies every single > one of the requirements you listed. It does look reasonable. Its syntax could use work, though. And as everyone notes, its name could be better. Zoltan wrote: > > What about Javascript running on FireFox 1.5 (this gives you a > de-bugger and graphics via and SVG)? This does look very neat, but I'd rather have commands like 'draw', than have to set up canvas properties first. PostScript spoiled me on this one. And stack-based RPN languages rock, if only for pure satisfaction. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 13:00:41 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:00:41 -0500 Subject: Free Tux Penguin Doll Sewing Pattern Message-ID: <200601030800.42085.jason@detachednetworks.ca> For those of you with kids or anyone else who may be interested, there is a free Tux penguin doll pattern located here. Non-commercial use only. All on one sheet http://www.free-penguin.org/downloads/TUX_pattern_0.6_a1.pdf Full Size - multiple sheets http://www.free-penguin.org/downloads/TUX_pattern_0.6_a4.pdf http://www.free-penguin.org -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 13:53:19 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:53:19 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <43B79F25.25842.124D89C1@localhost> <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these kind of > questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph You are sort of where I was exactly 2 years ago! I agree that Fedora Core or Ubuntu are about the easiest to get started with (at least in my personal experience). The best thing to do is pick one and then be sure to join their users mailing list. Subscribing to the mailing list is invaluable for getting answers and learning things that you are not aware of. Fedora Mailing List: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Ubuntu Mailing List: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users Also keep an eye on upcoming GTALUG meeting agendas. If it looks like something you are interested in, you should show up, as there is a huge wealth of knowledge in this group. Good luck. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 14:59:38 2006 From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 09:59:38 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43B03F21.6060101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> Installed a new motherboard in my pc, an ASRock M810LMR. Everything is fine, except for the video. There doesn't seem to be a linux display driver for the chip-integrated video. Does anyone know of one/where I can find one? Apparently the motherboard has "chip-integrated ProSavage4 graphics". I'm running rh8. Thx very much. -Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:12:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:12:29 -0500 Subject: First shot fired in the Battle with the Penguin? In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0512222022v3e4537b4kfee0aed04711f7ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103151229.GM26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 02:35:38AM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > Most of the population know nothing about FOSS even in 2005. I ran into > someone I used to know recently (we were seated next to each other on a > flight). Among other things the topic of Linux and FOSS came up. He had > heard of neither. He is an engineer who runs a company that makes > specialised components for various industries. For example, he pointed > out several parts of the 737 we were in that his company had made for > Boeing. For some people, a computer is just a tool, and they don't care how it works. This is probably often the correct attitude to have. > He's an intelligent man running a technical company and he had not heard > of Linux or FOSS. Maybe he never had a reason to care what was on the machine as long as someone else made sure it did what he needed. Linux is found in many embedded systems, that most users (correctly) don't even consider to be a computer. It just does its job like a good appliance should. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:13:26 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:13:26 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501c61078$3f369720$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:53 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: > Hello everyone, > First off I would like to wish everyone, all the best in 2006! > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. > You guys seem to know your stuff. Hopefully a beginner can ask these > kind of questions here. > Thanks in advance, > Joseph You are sort of where I was exactly 2 years ago! I agree that Fedora Core or Ubuntu are about the easiest to get started with (at least in my personal experience). The best thing to do is pick one and then be sure to join their users mailing list. Subscribing to the mailing list is invaluable for getting answers and learning things that you are not aware of. Fedora Mailing List: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Ubuntu Mailing List: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users Also keep an eye on upcoming GTALUG meeting agendas. If it looks like something you are interested in, you should show up, as there is a huge wealth of knowledge in this group. Good luck. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:15:41 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:15:41 -0500 Subject: Question about Slackware and Package Management Message-ID: I am interested in trying Slackware, however I am curious as to how package management works with it. Am I correct in assuming that anything you want to install, you download the tarball and use make and install? Are there any dependency problems? Is it up to the user to make sure all required packages are present... will the install process alert you to this? I'm used to things like yum and apt-get so that is why I am wondering what to do with Slackware. Thanks for any info. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:35:34 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:35:34 -0500 Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, teddy mills wrote: > > >> Has anyone used the WPA_Supplicant over wireless yet, and made a WPA >> connection? > > Yep. We're using WPA_Supplicant in a project. This is just with a > pre-shared key for now, although this may change. I was pleasantly > surprised at how easy it was to set up (under Debian). > > Rob Same here. Speeds are good, added security is nice too. Just make sure to use a long (20 character) non-dictionary password or WPA is *less* secure than WEP. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:50:21 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:50:21 -0500 Subject: Question about Slackware and Package Management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BA9D3D.8000005@pppoe.ca> Steve wrote: > I am interested in trying Slackware, however I am curious as to how > package management works with it. Am I correct in assuming that > anything you want to install, you download the tarball and use make > and install? Are there any dependency problems? Is it up to the user > to make sure all required packages are present... will the install > process alert you to this? > > I'm used to things like yum and apt-get so that is why I am wondering > what to do with Slackware. Slackware is awesome. Checkout checkinstall and swaret. Swaret is like apt-get. I haven't used slackpkg and slacktrack though(they are included in the extra packages directory). Enjoy :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:56:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:56:15 -0500 Subject: Linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard In-Reply-To: <43B03F21.6060101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103155615.GN26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 02:06:09PM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > Installed a new motherboard in my pc, an ASRock M810LMR. Everything is > fine, except for the video. There doesn't seem to be a linux driver for > this motherboard. Does anyone know where I can find one? Thx very much. 'new'? That isn't new. :) As for the video I would have expected it to work with the savaga driver in xfree86 (and hence hopefulyl x.org as well). Unless their prosavage4 is different than other company's prosavage4. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:57:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:57:21 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43BA915A.9060701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 09:59:38AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > Installed a new motherboard in my pc, an ASRock M810LMR. Everything is > fine, except for the video. There doesn't seem to be a linux display > driver for the chip-integrated video. Does anyone know of one/where I > can find one? Apparently the motherboard has "chip-integrated > ProSavage4 graphics". > > I'm running rh8. Thx very much. Try something MUCH newer than that old junk. There should be a driver if you have xfree86 4.x or newer called savage. Don't run distributions that are older than your hardware. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 15:59:55 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:59:55 -0500 Subject: Dual boot In-Reply-To: <20060103073921.59788.qmail-Zk2FA+KkAC6vuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103073921.59788.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601c6107e$bdb669d0$81fbc645@unipc> I am getting ready to install Linux for the first time. However I am planning to install it on a second hard drive on a PC that already has windows on the first hard drive. I would like to bootup my PC and get the windows menu to choose which OS I would like to boot. I already know how to multiboot windows with different versions of windows. If this can be done what should be the command line for the boot.ini file so that I can boot Linux on drive 2? If this can be done how should I proceed? Right now I can't buy a second PC or remove windows while I am trying to figure out Linux. Thanks in advance, Joseph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 16:08:00 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:08:00 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 04:54:22PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I can nicely sterilize a complete drive with shred -n 2 -z -v > /dev/ however I don't know how to do a partition or just the > slack space on a drive. > > This bails out with a complaint about running out of disk space, > before completing its first pass: > shred -n 2 -z -v /dev/ Maybe it has bugs and doens't get the size correct of the device. > The only solutions I've come across deal with an entire drive: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ > http://dban.sourceforge.net/ Still pretty effective but not the same. dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/device might be good, but much slower obviously. To clearn free disk space try this: dd if=/dev/zero(or random) of=/mount/to/filesystem/junkfile When it stops, the disk is full and there is one large file you can delete which has written to all free blocks. There is also a tool called 'wipe' on debian that seems similar to shred. No idea if it is better or not. Of course these tools don't work for erasing a file on many filesystems, but erasing the file and then filling all free space does a decent job, although takes much longer. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 16:26:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:26:39 -0500 Subject: ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <43B2AF8C.5000102-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060103162639.GQ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 10:30:20AM -0500, Paul Sutton wrote: > I am not sure if I fully understand what all this means, I place value > on data, as would anyone, what people want is a reliable way of > creating and storing that data, on a system that will not trash this > data, Windows does that, only then suffers from problems that causes a > virus or whatever to trash the data, Linux does not have that problem > but I hve had to nuke adn reinstall because of a problem I don't > understand and can't fix. Most people can fix problems in windows or > ask a friend to fix it, because in most cases their friend can be there > to fix it, as in on site. I know lots of people who can use Linux and > ther are about 6 of us including me living in torbay, who are on the > local Linux user group. No actually many problems on windows can't be fixed because the system has trashed itself too badly to be fixed. Best you can do is mount drive on another system to get your data off it and reinstall. Linux is a whole lot easier to fix. I haven't had to reinstall a linux system due to it being broken except once (which for 12 years use isn't too bad). That one was redhat 6.0 which was so broken that I replaced it with Debian. I should have followed to rule then of 'never use a redhat .0 release'. I knew that, and ignored it anyhow. :) With linux, as long as I can boot the kernel, mount / and start a shell, I can fix almost anything. I don't even need a working boot loader as a grub image will boot whatever is on the HD. A rescue cd can be needed if the filesystem is too damanged and needs to have fsck run. (I have had to do that with the win2k cd rescue console many times on certain win2k systems too that liked corrupting their filesystem). With windows you can do very little from the rescue console other than fix filesystem corruption and maybe replace a few dlls. On linux a shell means I have access to everything. Much better for doing recovery. Of course I very rarely need to do recovery on a linux system, while I can't say the same for windows. I can't boot windows with only a shell running and be ensured no viruses or other crap have had a chance to load and take over things yet. Given the number of viruses on windows and how well some of them hide now, that is a big problem. It needs a way to say "Boot with nothing but a shell and taskmanager". It unfortunately requires the bloody gui to do anything which requires tons of drivers and other crap to be loaded too. > It depends on what you want back from the users, I think a simple > e-mail to say this works, goes a long way, The community needs to find > a way to make it easier for users to provide feedback to developers, > even if this is via user groups, then the developers need to take note > and act on these recomendations. The oo.org method seems very over > complex, I have sent a new poster in for the software and asked if it is > ok to use the various logos within it, as I took these from the flyer > ,includng the windows logo, as the software works with windows, So > far I have had very little feed back, on it's been christmas, but not > many people have even read the issue. I think others feel the same > way, they don't want to create issues etc they just want to contribute > something. > > some examples of UI problems Well I think GUIs often are the UI problem. They make things too complicated and hide options for the sake of making things "simpler" rather than complete and correct. Adding users should only be possible for root in general, it is not a normal and frequent operation. Root should not be running X or other non trustworthy applications Hence you should not have a gui for adding users. A dialog based interface might be ok. I know redhat used to have one that wasn't too bad other than the horrible things it always insisted on doing to the sendmail config. > In control center - part of kde there is a Login manager section but > this does not seem to include a way to add users, however to do this I > use kuser which is a separate program, not included in control panel, > > This is the problem. In windows I would goto control panel, but in > Linux I have to go somewhree else, after I have gone to somewhere where > I would expect to find this tool. I spend a lot of time searching for > stuff, > > Another example is on kanotix there is a games menu, there is also a > debian games menu, try finding something and it's no on one so try the > other, there should be ONE games menu yes with submenus, but lets keep > it simple. Ok saying that at least I know where games are, try with > windows and it just sticks stuff anywhere, so in this sense Linux is a > little better. Debian decided to leave the KDE stuff in the KDE menus, while leaving all the debian applications with menu entries (a lovely system in debian by the way) in a seperate sub menu of the kde menu. Keeps kde stuff here kde stuff goes and still leaves easy access to the other stuff debian provides. Seems like a good system to me. > Another example is the adsl connection too, if it can't find a > connection it says something about an "access concentrator" perhaps > developers here need lessons in ENGLISH, ie in dump the techno babble > and say I am unable to detect a connection to the internet, it also > says about perahps another process is using pppoe or something. I > understand it kind of but people with no knowledgre don't stand a chance. Why invent new terms for things that have already had names for decades. > Again for people like me I have learnt now I can type dhclient in a > console window, and get a connection, I kind of understand what is > happening, but toa total newbie this would be really off putting. Some distributions will setup dhcp for you when you install them. Some won't. Again it is an administration task, not a common thing. Ask someone that knows how to administrate a system to help get it setup, and then when that is done, you can just use it as a user. > Most users who get stuck with the second example can't even get on the > net to make contributions in the first, place, or even ask for help, so > they boot into windows (which works) in order to ask for help on > something that should work better. what is needed is simplicity, > without sacraficing the power of the system, or perhaps Linspire is the > way to go, easy to use, where as those of us who want power and the > toools can use different distros, Perhaps of people would read the install guide and other documentation before starting the install they would fare a lot better. The real problem is that people expect computers to be magic and do everything for them or walk them through everything with baby steps in a gui wizard with pretty flashing buttons because they are too lazy to read and learn a few simple things for themselves. The term RTFM was invented a long time ago for a reason. The main difference is that there is a lot more friendly documentation now than there was in the past, yet people still won't read any of it. > Get the base system working, theh give average person out there, the > tools they need. The average user is just that: The average user. They are not an admin, and they don't know how to make a computer ready for use. The only reason so many people can use a machine with windows is that it came that way in the box. Most wouldn't be able to install windows on their own machine if they had to do a reinstall. The two worlds really are not that different. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 16:29:06 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:29:06 -0500 Subject: Question about Slackware and Package Management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BA6002.4015.1D0EE7CF@localhost> There are: pkgtool installpkg removepkg upgradepkg makepkg explodepkg See http://www.slackware.com/config/packages.php Paul King Dependency problems? I don't think that you will be informed about that. On 3 Jan 2006 at 10:15, Steve (Steve ) spaketh these wourdes: > I am interested in trying Slackware, however I am curious as to how > package management works with it. Am I correct in assuming that > anything you want to install, you download the tarball and use make > and install? Are there any dependency problems? Is it up to the user > to make sure all required packages are present... will the install > process alert you to this? > > I'm used to things like yum and apt-get so that is why I am wondering > what to do with Slackware. > > Thanks for any info. > > -Steve. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 16:37:09 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:37:09 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know of a good site or instructions for how to best (and properly) set up logical volume management? It sounds really good (especially with limited drive space), but I want to make sure I know what I'm doing. :-) Thanks! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 17:27:16 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:27:16 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <002501c61078$3f369720$81fbc645@unipc> References: <002501c61078$3f369720$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: You might also find some worthwhile info here. Lots of distros listed with reviews by real people: http://www.linuxquestions.org/reviews/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 17:32:28 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:32:28 -0500 Subject: Optimized distro for i686 In-Reply-To: References: <43B52BA7.7060800@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1e55af990601030932k4f664d03tb5ebee2991d86926@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > System optimisation is a complex issue and it's entirely possible that the > changes caused by recompiling everything may save you nothing (or even > make things worse). It's important to know what the performance problem > is before selecting a solution. This reminds me of a programming tip that really sunk in. Don't stop to make things pretty while roughing things out. First and foremost, make it work. Then make it work well. Make it do what it's supposed to, even if it's terribly ugly and slow.. then stop to consider what areas would give the best reward for the effort. The example for me is.. optimizing something so it goes faster may not mean anything it it runs unattended overnight. For me, it's more important that my mouse doesn't hop around and my music doesn't pop than it is for an application to launch faster. I used to endlessly fiddle to make things a tiny bit better.. and then I realised I had no real guage to tell if it was faster or not.. except my own experiences. When I was running a p2/266, the experience was that I could do everything I wanted .. slowly.. but with the right choices things still worked very well together (no skipping pointer or audio) But when someone mentions 686 optimised, the firs thing that springs to mind is Gentoo. =) Still, there are bunches of distributions which are tweaked to run on more contemporary hardware.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 17:42:01 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:42:01 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <20060103160800.GP26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/device might be good, but much slower > obviously. Thanks for the tip.. I didn't realise there was another source of data to draw on. If there is zero, is there some sort of "one" that exists somewhere? Thanks for the alternate free space wiping method with dd.. I've made some notes and I'll try it out if I get the chance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 17:46:04 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:46:04 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990601030946n7791797ej9417ee9d5d972a2e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/06, Steve wrote: > Does anyone know of a good site or instructions for how to best (and > properly) set up logical volume management? It sounds really good > (especially with limited drive space), but I want to make sure I know > what I'm doing. :-) The howto goes into detail.. I took a skim through things when I was interested a while back, but I ended up running away screaming. =) http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:03:34 2006 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:03:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fixing application networking issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060103180334.23745.qmail@web60118.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, to narrow down the source of the problem (firefox application or OS/networking) try another HTTP application like "wget" from the command line ($ wget www.google.com). If wget works (you're able to retrieve a page) then it's a problem with Firefox, if it doesn't then it's a network or network configuration problem. Fernando --- Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > I have encountered an issue where firefox does not > go out and > download a page after typing the url address. I > usually do a couple of > things: > *Use ifconfig and see if I can see the network card. > *Ping loop back and a reliable server out there > (bbc) > Most time, this show things are alright (On the > operating sys level) > Now, the only thing I do on the browser is type in > IP address. If > that don't work, I boot (Not a good idea in *nux > world, but..) > The question is, how can one go about find a > problem between an > application (firefox) and OS? Any trick is > appreaciated. > > Thank you > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:12:27 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:12:27 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 12:42:01PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: >On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/device might be good, but much slower >> obviously. > >Thanks for the tip.. I didn't realise there was another source of data >to draw on. Using /dev/random may not be practical. The system will need you to generate entropy. You'll need to give the system some mouse traffic throughout the procedure. This could take a very long time. I'd stick with /dev/zero. No, there is no /dev/one. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:28:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:28:04 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 11:37:09AM -0500, Steve wrote: > Does anyone know of a good site or instructions for how to best (and > properly) set up logical volume management? It sounds really good > (especially with limited drive space), but I want to make sure I know > what I'm doing. :-) If you have limited drive space, why are you partitioning the system to death in the first place? Yes you can resize each piece more easily with LVM, but that doesn't mean it is no work at all. LVM makes great sense when you want to be able to add more space later and distribute it between filesystems. I managed to figure out LVM2 just by reading the man pages for pvcreate, vgcreate and lvcreate, and the related tools. Each has a XXcreate, XXdisplay, and so on which do pretty much what they say. Many distributions will even let you setup LVM at install time, although not always for / but usually at least for everything else. I personally tend to do this: / (/dev/md0 raid1 from /dev/sda1 and /dev/sdb1 for sata drives) (10G for OS and OS installed applications) LVM physical volume (PV) rest of space (/dev/md1 from /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb2) used as the only device (until I get more disks) for a VG called something like main_vg, which then contains the logical volumes (LV aka partitions for LVM) that I use such as: swap /home /data etc You don't have to allocate all the space to start. If you leave some unused space in the vg you can easily add to a LV later on, or if you have free space you can snapshot a volume while doing backups to make sure nothing changes at all (it stores new changes in the free space in the VG while the snapshow is active). Great for backups to maintain consistency over the whole backup period. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:35:22 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:35:22 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060103183522.GS26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 12:42:01PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/device might be good, but much slower > > obviously. > > Thanks for the tip.. I didn't realise there was another source of data > to draw on. > > If there is zero, is there some sort of "one" that exists somewhere? Not that I know of. Easy to write a program to do it though such as: while :; do echo -n -e '\377'; done | dd of=/dev/device That would write 0xFF to the device. It would be faster than /dev/random Something faster still might be: export STRING="" for i in `seq 0 1 511`; do export STRING="$STRING`echo -n -e '\0377'`"; done while :; do echo -n -e "$STRING"; done | dd bs=512 of=/dev/device unset $STRING That way echo is only run once every 512bytes rather than every byte. Should save a lot of system calls. Repeat with some different values for overwriting as you see fit. > Thanks for the alternate free space wiping method with dd.. I've made > some notes and I'll try it out if I get the chance. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:36:22 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:36:22 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> Message-ID: <20060103183622.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 01:12:27PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > Using /dev/random may not be practical. The system will need you to > generate entropy. You'll need to give the system some mouse traffic > throughout the procedure. This could take a very long time. I'd stick > with /dev/zero. No, there is no /dev/one. Depends if you use random or urandom. One uses entrophy for quality random values, while the other is just pseudo random and not of high quality. Probably still plenty random for wiping though. I can never renember which /dev/random is which though. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:42:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:42:35 -0500 Subject: Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43B8CB37.9050606-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43B8CB37.9050606@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060103184235.GU26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 01:41:59AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell a web browser to not kill a > connection (to a cgi script) that takes a certain period of time to respond? > > The reason I ask is that my perl program tries to spit out data to > the browser every 30 seconds during a big job to keep the connection > alive (I turn off buffering) but sometimes an external program I call > holds things up for too long and the connection dies anyway. > > I know that I can increase the time-out on the webserver but from > what I can tell the browser generally ends things. > > I'm worried that this option won't exist in browsers for valid > security reasons... > > Thanks in advance! In my experience, as long as there is SOME output in the first 15 to 30 seconds, most browsers will put up with a few minutes of no output. Of course things like altavista used to do something like this: Receive request and spin off a background job to work out answer In the mean time send a page to the user that is set to auto reload in x seconds to the same page, which each time it is received checks if the job is done. If it is done, send result, otherwise send the auto refresh in x seconds page again telling user that the work is still being done. Keeps it simple to keep the client happy (since they just refresh), and lets the work happen undisturbed in the background. Probably much simpler to program in general than trying to ensure output is generated frequently. Too easy for the server to be too busy and drop the connection and then have to do it all over again. Could even add something that says if the refresh request isn't received within 2x the expected refresh time, then kill the job because the client is expected to have quit or closed the page or gone back or something similar. That part would be harder though since you would need some timeout task running that each refresh would reset the timeout on. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:46:41 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:46:41 -0500 Subject: Some grub questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060103184641.GV26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 08:51:10PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > The initrd image file contains kernel modules that are required for the root > filesystem to be enabled on boot. Most distributions compile the > filesystem drivers as loadable modules instead of statically in the kernel. > However, on boot, the kernel has no way of accessing these modules, because > they sit on the disk. > > The initrd image is, essentially, a very small root filesystem which just > contains the modules needed to mount the root filesystem. Once that's done, > it gets tossed. (It's actually a gzip compressed ext2 filesystem; you can > uncompress and mount it to see what's inside). > > I have been googling about for update-grub scripts. The articles out I believe update-grub is a debian invention. It certainly is included in the debian grub packages. And debian has many update-X scripts around for various things like update-modules, update-alternatives, etc. > Not sure what you're looking for here. Scripts that auto-update grub? Scripts that are called when a new kernel is added to update the grub menu automatically with your standard options. Debian's kernel images can have hooks to update-grub added to /etc/kernel-img.conf to do that. > You're getting confused between the Linux "root" filesystem, and the GRUB > "root" partition. They are totally different. In GRUB, the "root" > directive always points to the partition where the kernel and initrd image > files are located. If, during installation, a partition was created for > "/boot", then that's the device GRUB will use for the "root" directive. > This is what Ubuntu does during installation. If /boot is in the / (root) > filesystem, then it will point there. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:50:45 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:50:45 -0500 Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless In-Reply-To: <1136265587.12013.7.camel-LwQTrTZM4/icvWdFBKKxig@public.gmane.org> References: <1136265587.12013.7.camel@vger4.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060103185045.GW26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 12:19:46AM -0500, teddy mills wrote: > While trying to get linux wireless to work, something easy to forget is > the DHCP server. For many Linux distros the sudo command, "pump" should > work. > > I use KWifiManager, to get an idea of what the connection rate is. > I use ping to see how reliable the connection is, how many dropped > packets etc. > > Has anyone used the WPA_Supplicant over wireless yet, and made a WPA > connection? I have tried that, and it does connect. You have to do all the steps again if you ever drop the connection for a moment though. There didn't seem to be any daemon around to auto reconnecting with wpa. I kinda gave up at that point (having never been a wireless fan) and let my wife go back to windows until some day someone makes wireless actually make sense on linux. Writing a script to check if it can ping the gateway, and if not run: wpa_suplicant dhcpclient some other step in there I don't recall ... is just too ugly a hack for me to accept. And my wife thinks I should move my computer elsewhere in the house and get a wireless connection for it. I don't think so. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 18:57:02 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:57:02 +0000 Subject: ADSL issues was ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <20060103162639.GQ26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> <20060103162639.GQ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43BAC8FE.9000007@zen.co.uk> I think the ADSL connection problem is something to do with the tool that helps me set it up, when I run the tool from the kde menu it promts for the root password, then jumps to a console window, where it tries to run something, can't and closes the window (very quickly), I think whatever tool it tries and runs, is one that needs special permission to be started from a konsole window to run in X, Is there a ADSL tool i can run from a normal commadn line that does the same thing, I'ts under internet / connection on the KDE menu, there must be a console set up tool somewhere. I am using Kanotix 2005-4 - lite, having done an apt-get dist upgrade etc earlier, (I was using a RC before), so I am now running the full lite version, or is there a way to run dhclient automaticaly upon startup so it finds the hub / router / internet connection. I was hoping doing this would fix it, thanks Paul > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:07:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:07:34 -0500 Subject: Dual boot In-Reply-To: <003601c6107e$bdb669d0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <20060103073921.59788.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003601c6107e$bdb669d0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <20060103190734.GX26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 10:59:55AM -0500, Joseph wrote: > I am getting ready to install Linux for the first time. > However I am planning to install it on a second hard drive > on a PC that already has windows on the first hard drive. > I would like to bootup my PC and get the windows menu to > choose which OS I would like to boot. Better to let grub give you a choice of windows or linux. The windows boot loader is meant to boot windows only and anytyhing else is a hack using it's dos booting hacks. Most distributions will even detect windows and add it to the boot loader menu for you. > I already know how to multiboot windows with different > versions of windows. Sure windows knows how to boot windows. It doesn't consider the concept that anything else exists. > If this can be done what should be the command line for the > boot.ini file so that I can boot Linux on drive 2? > If this can be done how should I proceed? > Right now I can't buy a second PC or remove windows while I > am trying to figure out Linux. You can install the linux boot loader and dd the boot sector to a file and then put that into the boot.ini, but it is a disgusting hack and likely to break at some point. Use a bootloader that knows how to boot multiple OSs and it will be much simpler. In all the years of using linux, I have never accepted doing it that way and I never will. I use grub (lilo in the past) as the primary boot loader because they know how to boot everything cleanly. Once they pass control to the C: boot sector, the windows boot loader can choose which windows to boot since that is what it knows how to do. No hacks involved. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:13:27 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:13:27 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: <20060103182804.GR26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > If you have limited drive space, why are you partitioning the system to > death in the first place? > > Len Sorensen I have an 80GB drive that I need a couple of "solid" partitions (windows, linux swap), but the rest I am using for various things (linux distros, VMware virtual machines, music, etc). I really want to create a large "container" partition (using LVM) with many volumes inside that I can resize at will, for linux distros, multimedia files etc. For example, if I have a distro that I've allocated 20GB for, but I'm only using 5GB, can I easily resize it to 10GB and therefore increase a different volume by that amount? I'm discovering some caveats (/boot partitions should NOT be on an LVM volume?), but it seems interesting. I have an old 1/2GB IDE drive (yes, no kidding), that I think I will put in to do some LVM experiment on. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:13:55 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:13:55 -0500 Subject: Optimized distro for i686 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060103191355.GY26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 05:20:56PM -0500, Steve wrote: > I just have a question regarding a distro I ran across from > distrowatch, called Fox Linux (http://www.foxlinux.org/) that says it > is "optimized for i686"... does this mean not only using the 686 > kernel, but recompiled packages as well? I could not find any details > on their website to explain further. It looks pretty interesting, > being a KDE distro based on FC4. Well if you want easy access to support, pick something common that many people understand. If you are already quite experienced and want to try something new, well then have fun. :) The less common distributions are usually that way for a reason. Only a few newcomers ever make it big. You need real quality to become a major distribution from scratch today. > I guess I am curious as to what is involved in "optimizing" a distro > for a certain CPU/platform. Compile everything with gcc -m686 or march=i686 or whatever the option is, then be happy pentium and older machines are quite rare so you won't care anymore, and of course hope there compiler's optimizer doesn't have any too serious bugs to break the code. Very little to be gained in general though. The kernel has the most to gain and most distributions already come with cpu specific kernels you install, and a few libraries have assembly optimizations for different cpu types, but they can run time select the correct one already (and do so). > Thanks for any explanation on this topic, and Happy New Year to everyone! I consider it useless marketing bragging. It has little real meaning other than to say it won't run on older systems at all of course. Of corse my work involves more embedded style hardware with a geode gx1 processor, so i486 optimized is preferable there, and i586 code just tolerated on the processor. i686 wouldn't run. We use a 486 optimized kernel, and plain i386 applications for the most part (a few libs use i486 I believe due to glibc issues). Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:20:12 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:20:12 +0200 (IST) Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <20060103183522.GS26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103183522.GS26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 12:42:01PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/device might be good, but much slower >>> obviously. >> >> Thanks for the tip.. I didn't realise there was another source of data >> to draw on. >> >> If there is zero, is there some sort of "one" that exists somewhere? yes "*empty"|dd of=/dev/hdx bs=16k The string passed to yes must be literal (no escapes etc). If you need to print something fancy try: yes `echo -e "\xxx\yyy"`|dd of=... The printf command on my system is broken (Debian). printf %c '\007' prints '\' (should ring the bell). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:20:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:20:20 -0500 Subject: Optimized distro for i686 In-Reply-To: <60954.66.11.182.5.1135974096.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <43B52BA7.7060800@zen.co.uk> <60954.66.11.182.5.1135974096.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <20060103192020.GZ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 30, 2005 at 03:21:36PM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: > I use the following compiler options on Gentoo and everything works fine > > CFLAGS="-O3 -march=athlon-xp -pipe -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer > -m3dnow -mmmx -msse" What no -fpmath=sse ? :) I personally have bad experiences with -O3 so I stick with -O2. Of course I don't use gentoo either. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:21:57 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:21:57 -0500 Subject: ADSL issues was ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <43BAC8FE.9000007-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> <20060103162639.GQ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BAC8FE.9000007@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43BACED5.20108@pppoe.ca> paul sutton wrote: > I think the ADSL connection problem is something to do with the tool > that helps me set it up, when I run the tool from the kde menu it > promts for the root password, then jumps to a console window, where it > tries to run something, can't and closes the window (very quickly), I > think whatever tool it tries and runs, is one that needs special > permission to be started from a konsole window to run in X, > > Is there a ADSL tool i can run from a normal commadn line that does the > same thing, I'ts under internet / connection on the KDE menu, there > must be a console set up tool somewhere. > > I am using Kanotix 2005-4 - lite, having done an apt-get dist upgrade > etc earlier, (I was using a RC before), so I am now running the full > lite version, or is there a way to run dhclient automaticaly upon > startup so it finds the hub / router / internet connection. I was hoping > doing this would fix it, Paul I'm not sure what you want but if what you want to do is connect using pppoe, try rp-pppoe. http://www.roaringpenguin.com/penguin/open_source_rp-pppoe.php But first, check if Kanotix is already using it. In the past, there were problems with some implementations of rp-pppoe by vendors. I haven't heard of problems with rp-pppoe for a long, long time. It's usually included in the distro and just works :-) Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:23:55 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:23:55 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060103192355.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 02:13:27PM -0500, Steve wrote: > I have an 80GB drive that I need a couple of "solid" partitions > (windows, linux swap), but the rest I am using for various things > (linux distros, VMware virtual machines, music, etc). I really want to > create a large "container" partition (using LVM) with many volumes > inside that I can resize at will, for linux distros, multimedia files > etc. For example, if I have a distro that I've allocated 20GB for, but > I'm only using 5GB, can I easily resize it to 10GB and therefore > increase a different volume by that amount? I'm discovering some > caveats (/boot partitions should NOT be on an LVM volume?), but it > seems interesting. I have an old 1/2GB IDE drive (yes, no kidding), > that I think I will put in to do some LVM experiment on. Why does linux swap qualify as a solid partition? It is one of the first things I considered throwing into LVM. Also many distributions do not support LVMs for installs so they are not particularly suited for that at all. For running many different distributions, nothing really beats vmware, or UML or other equivalant things. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:28:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:28:48 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103183522.GS26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060103192848.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 09:20:12PM +0200, Peter wrote: > yes "*empty"|dd of=/dev/hdx bs=16k > > The string passed to yes must be literal (no escapes etc). If you need > to print something fancy try: > > yes `echo -e "\xxx\yyy"`|dd of=... > > The printf command on my system is broken (Debian). printf %c '\007' > prints '\' (should ring the bell). printf supports \xxx sequences in the _format_ string only. The shell doesn't know to make '\007' into the character 0x07 and pass that. So printf sees the first character passed to it is '\' and prints that, just as it should. Both these work: printf '\007' printf '%c' ^V^G Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:29:28 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:29:28 -0500 Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless In-Reply-To: <20060103185045.GW26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1136265587.12013.7.camel@vger4.dyndns.org> <20060103185045.GW26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I have tried that, and it does connect. You have to do all the steps > again if you ever drop the connection for a moment though. There didn't > seem to be any daemon around to auto reconnecting with wpa. I kinda > gave up at that point (having never been a wireless fan) and let my wife > go back to windows until some day someone makes wireless actually make > sense on linux. > > Writing a script to check if it can ping the gateway, and if not run: > wpa_suplicant > dhcpclient > some other step in there I don't recall > > ... is just too ugly a hack for me to accept. Which version of wpa_supplicant are you using? I've got 0.4.5 working without any problems at all. I've no idea if it runs in daemon mode (I should think it does), but you might check to see if it is on your system. Also, the init script has to be called before the rest of your networking scripts if you want it to work on startup without any hassles. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:29:43 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:29:43 -0500 Subject: ADSL issues was ot-no free lunch and UI issues In-Reply-To: <43BAC8FE.9000007-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43B2AF8C.5000102@zen.co.uk> <20060103162639.GQ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BAC8FE.9000007@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060103192943.GC26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 06:57:02PM +0000, paul sutton wrote: > I think the ADSL connection problem is something to do with the tool > that helps me set it up, when I run the tool from the kde menu it > promts for the root password, then jumps to a console window, where it > tries to run something, can't and closes the window (very quickly), I > think whatever tool it tries and runs, is one that needs special > permission to be started from a konsole window to run in X, > > Is there a ADSL tool i can run from a normal commadn line that does the > same thing, I'ts under internet / connection on the KDE menu, there > must be a console set up tool somewhere. > > I am using Kanotix 2005-4 - lite, having done an apt-get dist upgrade > etc earlier, (I was using a RC before), so I am now running the full > lite version, or is there a way to run dhclient automaticaly upon > startup so it finds the hub / router / internet connection. I was hoping > doing this would fix it, pppoeconf has worked for me in the past. man interfaces should do if you just have to setup dhcp instead. Around here pppoe is most common for adsl connections though, and dhcp for cablemodems. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:30:41 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:30:41 -0500 Subject: Burning m2t MPEG2 Transport Streams to DVD In-Reply-To: <43B5D871.1010405-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B5D871.1010405@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060103193041.GD26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 30, 2005 at 08:01:37PM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Is there a simple way to create a DVD from one of these files? I got it > from a relative's DV camera; I also believe that these are used for the > raw data streams from HDTV boxes. I think you have to convert it first. transcode can probably do that, as can various other video decoder/encoder systems. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 19:32:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:32:04 -0500 Subject: linux networking ethernet and wireless In-Reply-To: <43BAD098.4030103-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1136265587.12013.7.camel@vger4.dyndns.org> <20060103185045.GW26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BAD098.4030103@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060103193204.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 02:29:28PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Which version of wpa_supplicant are you using? I've got 0.4.5 working > without any problems at all. I've no idea if it runs in daemon mode (I > should think it does), but you might check to see if it is on your > system. Also, the init script has to be called before the rest of your > networking scripts if you want it to work on startup without any hassles. I don't remember. This was in september using whatever was is in Debian Stable. 0.3.8-1 appears to be the version. Perhaps I should retry it with a newer version. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 20:01:25 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:01:25 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: <20060103192355.GA26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060103192355.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Why does linux swap qualify as a solid partition? It is one of the > first things I considered throwing into LVM. > > Also many distributions do not support LVMs for installs so they are not > particularly suited for that at all. > > For running many different distributions, nothing really beats vmware, > or UML or other equivalant things. > > Len Sorensen Good points! I am already running Ubuntu Dapper in VMware, which is really good for "testing". I sort of want to have the ability to have at least 2 linux distros plus windows... one main distro and the other to mess around with "realtime", as it will give me more realistic hardware knowledge as opposed to VMware's virtual machine hardware. That's mainly why I wanted the ability to resize volumes on-the-fly if needed. Thanks for your suggestions! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 20:16:23 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:16:23 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? Message-ID: <43BADB97.5060108@telly.org> Apologies if you received this twice, my system has had some mail burps today. I've been asked by a friend to set up a computer-based Tivo clone and I'm curious to know what the status of things are in this field. I notice that both MythTV and Freevo are actively being developed -- is one clearly better than the other? Or is this another KDE/GNOME, xine/mplayer "personal taste" kind of choice? What are the best websites that talk about the various components? I was considering something small and quiet -- a small Shuttle XPC type box would be nice, but it has to be able to do good video, good 5+1 sound out and a possibility for multiple video capture cards (for picture-in-picture or recording one show while viewing another). Maybe something based on an Antec Aria case would be good, does anyone have any other ideas? Is there other relevant software that works together with MythTV or Freevo? Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 20:24:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:24:21 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <43BADB97.5060108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BADB97.5060108@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060103202421.GF26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 03:16:23PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Apologies if you received this twice, my system has had some mail burps > today. > > I've been asked by a friend to set up a computer-based Tivo clone and I'm > curious to know what the status of things are in this field. > > I notice that both MythTV and Freevo are actively being developed -- is > one clearly better than the other? Or is this another KDE/GNOME, > xine/mplayer "personal taste" kind of choice? Mythtv seems oriented as a windows media center equivalant (at least), and supports playing DVDs, watching TV, recording TV, having remote clients and servers all talking to each other, playing games (with mame plugin and such), viewing web pages, rss feeds, weather, etc. It is all in one. I thought freevo was meant to mainly be just a PVR and not much else, but I must admit I didn't look at it for quite a while. If I was building such a machine, it would have debian + mythtv on it, but that's just me, and right now I have better things to spend my money on (unfortunately). :) > What are the best websites that talk about the various components? > > I was considering something small and quiet -- a small Shuttle XPC type box > would be nice, but it has to be able to do good video, good 5+1 sound out > and a possibility for multiple video capture cards (for > picture-in-picture or recording one show while viewing another). Maybe > something based on an Antec Aria case would be good, does anyone have any > other ideas? Is there other relevant software that works together with > MythTV or Freevo? I think mythtv uses mplayer for some things, but I don't remember for sure. It has been a while since I poked at it. A shuttle XPC seems like a very bad choice actually. You actually really want something that takes a full ATX board if you want multiple capture cards, or at least a microATX to get 3 PCI slots and a video card in there. If you want good sound, you probably want to add an sb live/audigy (make sure it is an alsa supported revision) to get fully supported multichannel sound. Some onboards work too, but I have no idea what the quality is like on many of them. There are cases out there with buildin LCD displays and IR ports and which have linux drivers available for that hardware. Some of them look like they would be perfect for the job. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 20:34:39 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:34:39 -0500 Subject: Question about Slackware and Package Management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060103203439.GA3053@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 10:15:41AM -0500, Steve wrote: > I am interested in trying Slackware, however I am curious as to how > package management works with it. Am I correct in assuming that > anything you want to install, you download the tarball and use make > and install? Are there any dependency problems? Is it up to the user > to make sure all required packages are present... will the install > process alert you to this? > > I'm used to things like yum and apt-get so that is why I am wondering > what to do with Slackware. > > Thanks for any info. Slackware uses .tgz (tar'ed and gzip'ed) file as vehicle for packages. In addition to files to be installed, it has script to be run after the files are installed, usually for creating symbolic links, moving files, running 'depmod', etc. So, normally, you do installpkg xxx.tgz It will install files, run 'doinst.sh', and prints log to /var/log/packages/xxx You can do this manually, like cd / tar -xzf xxx.tgz sh ./install/doinst.sh except for /var/log/packages/xxx. man installpkg man removepkg man updatepkg -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 20:57:05 2006 From: pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:57:05 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <20060103202421.GF26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43BADB97.5060108@telly.org> <20060103202421.GF26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43BAE521.4060208@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >There are cases out there with buildin LCD displays and IR ports and >which have linux drivers available for that hardware. Some of them look >like they would be perfect for the job. > > Do you have any links handy for the case with built-in LCD display? paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 21:12:06 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:12:06 +0200 (IST) Subject: [OT]: Another one on Patents Message-ID: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_02/b3966086.htm Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 21:14:10 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:14:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <43BADB97.5060108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BADB97.5060108@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060103211410.79892.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Apologies if you received this twice, my system has > had some mail burps > today. > > I've been asked by a friend to set up a > computer-based Tivo clone and I'm curious to know > what the status of things are in this field. > > I notice that both MythTV and Freevo are actively > being developed -- is one clearly better than the > other? Or is this another KDE/GNOME, xine/mplayer > "personal taste" kind of choice? > > What are the best websites that talk about the > various components? I would suggest you start with: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8658 But hey I am biased :-) . > I was considering something small and quiet -- a > small Shuttle XPC type box would be nice, but it has > to be able to do good video, good 5+1 > sound out and a possibility for multiple video > capture cards (for picture-in-picture or recording > one show while viewing another). Maybe > something based on an Antec Aria case would be good, > does anyone have any other ideas? Is there other > relevant software that works together with MythTV or > Freevo? > > Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks! > > - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 21:29:02 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:29:02 -0400 (AST) Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: With regards to the /boot ... Ubuntu says that LILO supports booting from LVM, but GRUB does not. I've been successful in making an Ubuntu box with RAID 1 on two 200GB SATA drives. Each drive includes a single primary partition of type RAID and the rest is LVM. After a few days of trying, I am still unsuccessful in getting the same setup going on two 250GB EIDE drives. LILO fails to load the kernel, RAID or no RAID, but GRUB works fine without RAID. Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Steve wrote: > On 1/3/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > If you have limited drive space, why are you partitioning the system to > > death in the first place? > > > > Len Sorensen > > I have an 80GB drive that I need a couple of "solid" partitions > (windows, linux swap), but the rest I am using for various things > (linux distros, VMware virtual machines, music, etc). I really want to > create a large "container" partition (using LVM) with many volumes > inside that I can resize at will, for linux distros, multimedia files > etc. For example, if I have a distro that I've allocated 20GB for, but > I'm only using 5GB, can I easily resize it to 10GB and therefore > increase a different volume by that amount? I'm discovering some > caveats (/boot partitions should NOT be on an LVM volume?), but it > seems interesting. I have an old 1/2GB IDE drive (yes, no kidding), > that I think I will put in to do some LVM experiment on. > > -Steve. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 21:39:12 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:39:12 +0000 Subject: jobs at novell Message-ID: <43BAEF00.2090909@zen.co.uk> Hi I know this is off topic again, does anyone know who to contact at Novell regarding job vacancies, I thought about sending my resume to them to ask if they had anything, I have an address for their Markham office, in Toronto, but thats about it, does that office have a human resources department? Thanks Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 23:33:51 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 01:33:51 +0200 (IST) Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <20060103183622.GT26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> <20060103183622.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 01:12:27PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: >> Using /dev/random may not be practical. The system will need you to >> generate entropy. You'll need to give the system some mouse traffic >> throughout the procedure. This could take a very long time. I'd stick >> with /dev/zero. No, there is no /dev/one. > > Depends if you use random or urandom. One uses entrophy for quality > random values, while the other is just pseudo random and not of high > quality. Probably still plenty random for wiping though. I can never > renember which /dev/random is which though. However reading the Guttman paper before wasting too much time on this could be beneficial imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 3 23:45:35 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:45:35 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> <20060103183622.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/3/06, Peter wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 01:12:27PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > >> Using /dev/random may not be practical. The system will need you to > >> generate entropy. You'll need to give the system some mouse traffic > >> throughout the procedure. This could take a very long time. I'd stick > >> with /dev/zero. No, there is no /dev/one. > > > > Depends if you use random or urandom. One uses entrophy for quality > > random values, while the other is just pseudo random and not of high > > quality. Probably still plenty random for wiping though. I can never > > renember which /dev/random is which though. > > However reading the Guttman paper before wasting too much time on this > could be beneficial imho. Yeah. If there is a "formal" need for 'wiping,' then the answer probably involves making sure that you have expertise and equipment inside your organization that can be used to outright DESTROY the hardware, down to the point of grinding the disks into powder. If you haven't reason to be that paranoid, then it is probably over-paranoid to even go as far as using /dev/urandom to "wipe" the disk. I don't see there being a stable mid-point... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 01:00:10 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:00:10 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601022030j6c5e4d25we393a91f2fd0a48a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1136212750.26755.35.camel@holden.weait.net> <003f01c60fb3$7f6c1470$81fbc645@unipc> <1e55af990601022030j6c5e4d25we393a91f2fd0a48a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BB1E1A.2030904@rogers.com> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: >> I will try to make it to the next meeting that you have. How much is the >> entrance fee? > > There's no charge for attending a meeting. Other than keeping Drew well supplied with beer. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 01:04:08 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:04:08 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <43BB1E1A.2030904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43BB1E1A.2030904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <014c01c610ca$c42c8cd0$81fbc645@unipc> Funny who is Drew? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James Knott Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:00 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/2/06, Joseph wrote: >> I will try to make it to the next meeting that you have. How much is >> the entrance fee? > > There's no charge for attending a meeting. Other than keeping Drew well supplied with beer. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 01:35:32 2006 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:35:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: jobs at novell In-Reply-To: <43BAEF00.2090909-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43BAEF00.2090909@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060104013532.33024.qmail@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Paul, just stating the obvious: http://www.novell.com/company/careers/ http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/Company-Profiles/N/Novell-Inc_26644 but also Novell cut 600 jobs in December: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5928931.html Fernando --- Paul Sutton wrote: > Hi > > I know this is off topic again, does anyone know who > to contact at > Novell regarding job vacancies, I thought about > sending my resume to > them to ask if they had anything, I have an address > for their Markham > office, in Toronto, but thats about it, does that > office have a human > resources department? > > Thanks > > Paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 01:36:28 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:36:28 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <014c01c610ca$c42c8cd0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <014c01c610ca$c42c8cd0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <43BB269C.1060209@rogers.com> Joseph wrote: > Funny who is Drew? Drew Sullivan. The current GTALUG president. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 01:53:05 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:53:05 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <20060103211410.79892.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103211410.79892.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43BB2A81.4070506@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: >>I've been asked by a friend to set up a >>computer-based Tivo clone and I'm curious to know >>what the status of things are in this field. >> >I would suggest you start with: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8658 > Nice article, Colin. It was very helpful. Did you write that while building one of your own? If so, how's it working out? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 02:13:36 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:13:36 -0500 Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990512261354t1d8721ddn513afc2936f67470@mail.gmail.com> <20060103160800.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601030942r3ebbca6dk38d130fac12cc1dd@mail.gmail.com> <20060103181227.GF1057@ettin> <20060103183622.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601031813h39cc4165o613184e6119af8c0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > If there is a "formal" need for 'wiping,' then the answer probably > involves making sure that you have expertise and equipment inside your > organization that can be used to outright DESTROY the hardware, down > to the point of grinding the disks into powder. > > If you haven't reason to be that paranoid, then it is probably > over-paranoid to even go as far as using /dev/urandom to "wipe" the > disk. > > I don't see there being a stable mid-point... First, thanks for the tips everyone.. I've updated my notes to include the new ideas. I've disassembled a hard drive and scratched the crap out of it.. that's made me happy enough. Processes like those are especially useful in cases where the drive dies and its data can't be sanitized in these traditional direct-access ways. It makes it quite inconvenient to return a hard drive under warranty if it doesn't spin up and the data has to be sanitized. Heh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 02:30:23 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:30:23 -0500 Subject: jobs at novell In-Reply-To: <43BAEF00.2090909-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43BAEF00.2090909@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: A year ago I took the Linux Certified Linux Professional (CLP) exam at Novell (the Markham office), and my instructor mentioned that they were looking for people to be instructors for their various Linux courses, in particular the certification track courses. If you're interested in that sort of thing, you may want to mention it in your cover letter or resume. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 02:41:19 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:41:19 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <22318ee50601022258h29400b7fheb83b9f838990d9c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43B9B79E.17263.1A7D220F@localhost> <1e55af990601022039j39e4ab0fqbf4ab84bc074b9c3@mail.gmail.com> <43BA020C.7080700@pppoe.ca> <22318ee50601022258h29400b7fheb83b9f838990d9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course, my other big "problem" is that Linux is both a hobby, and work, to me. I depend on it for my livelihood, as well as enjoy hacking around in it getting oddball stuff to work with it. It's just that I don't have the time I used to have to fight with it. I remember spending literally _days_ getting drivers to work; compiling the latest kernel; reinstalling the distro back before RPM and DEB existed. None of that time was wasted; it was a lot of fun. Sort of like tinkering with an old automobile. But, nowadays, there just isn't the time to hack. I don't know how some of these people do it, with kids, job, and other commitments. So when I want to do something with Linux, I want it to work rather quickly. When I built my MythTV box, I had to schedule a day (a WHOLE DAY) on the calendar, and have my wife take the two kids out somewhere for the day, so I could be left in peace to get it done. I got everything ready the week before, so that when the day came, I was totally ready and dedicated to the project. I never used to have to go to those lengths. :-) pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 02:44:03 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:44:03 -0500 Subject: jobs at novell In-Reply-To: <43BAEF00.2090909-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43BAEF00.2090909@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: On 1/3/06, Paul Sutton wrote: > I know this is off topic again, does anyone know who to contact at > Novell regarding job vacancies, I thought about sending my resume to > them to ask if they had anything, I have an address for their Markham > office, in Toronto, but thats about it, does that office have a human > resources department? When the two guys presented in December, I believe that they were the Toronto office. My understanding is that they are contracting out a lot of the services; that way they don't get forced to hold on to extra staff if service contracts are varying a lot. The one place where they *are* advertising openings is in the Ottawa office. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 03:04:01 2006 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:04:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sterilizing free space In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601031813h39cc4165o613184e6119af8c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601031813h39cc4165o613184e6119af8c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060104030401.49847.qmail@web60122.mail.yahoo.com> I'd leave the clean sanitation of a hard drive to professionals like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romanedirisinghe/18782400/in/photostream/ Fernando --- Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/3/06, Christopher Browne > wrote: > > If there is a "formal" need for 'wiping,' then the > answer probably > > involves making sure that you have expertise and > equipment inside your > > organization that can be used to outright DESTROY > the hardware, down > > to the point of grinding the disks into powder. > > > > If you haven't reason to be that paranoid, then it > is probably > > over-paranoid to even go as far as using > /dev/urandom to "wipe" the > > disk. > > > > I don't see there being a stable mid-point... > > > First, thanks for the tips everyone.. I've updated > my notes to include > the new ideas. > > I've disassembled a hard drive and scratched the > crap out of it.. > that's made me happy enough. Processes like those > are especially > useful in cases where the drive dies and its data > can't be sanitized > in these traditional direct-access ways. > > It makes it quite inconvenient to return a hard > drive under warranty > if it doesn't spin up and the data has to be > sanitized. Heh. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 04:55:40 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:55:40 -0500 Subject: Fixing application networking issues In-Reply-To: <20060103180334.23745.qmail-5b0quEVbXEOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103180334.23745.qmail@web60118.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys, your answers were very helpful William On 1/3/06, Fernando Duran wrote: > Hello, > > to narrow down the source of the problem (firefox > application or OS/networking) try another HTTP > application like "wget" from the command line ($ wget > www.google.com). If wget works (you're able to > retrieve a page) then it's a problem with Firefox, if > it doesn't then it's a network or network > configuration problem. > > Fernando > > --- Kihara Muriithi > wrote: > > > Hi, > > I have encountered an issue where firefox does not > > go out and > > download a page after typing the url address. I > > usually do a couple of > > things: > > *Use ifconfig and see if I can see the network card. > > *Ping loop back and a reliable server out there > > (bbc) > > Most time, this show things are alright (On the > > operating sys level) > > Now, the only thing I do on the browser is type in > > IP address. If > > that don't work, I boot (Not a good idea in *nux > > world, but..) > > The question is, how can one go about find a > > problem between an > > application (firefox) and OS? Any trick is > > appreaciated. > > > > Thank you > > William > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 09:09:45 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:09:45 +0800 Subject: multihomed box Message-ID: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, I have a linux with 1 NIC card with 5 IPs eth0, eth0:0, etc.. a client gave us an API that connects to a server w/c uses eth0's IP. Im wondering if I can use eth0:0's IP when it connects to the server... thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 12:08:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 07:08:41 -0500 Subject: multihomed box In-Reply-To: <200601041709.45483.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <43BBBAC9.90300@rogers.com> JM wrote: > Hi, > > I have a linux with 1 NIC card with 5 IPs > > eth0, eth0:0, etc.. > > a client gave us an API that connects to a server w/c uses eth0's IP. Im > wondering if I can use eth0:0's IP when it connects to the server... If the server is configured for muliple IPs, it should respond no matter what address is used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 13:12:32 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:12:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <43BB2A81.4070506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BB2A81.4070506@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060104131232.13717.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > >>I've been asked by a friend to set up a > >>computer-based Tivo clone and I'm curious to know > >>what the status of things are in this field. > >> > >I would suggest you start with: > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8658 > > > Nice article, Colin. It was very helpful. > > Did you write that while building one of your own? > If so, how's it > working out? Yes, I did write the above while working on a home MythTV box. Basically I wanted the option of watching / recording TV in the den on my "main" Linux PC independent of what was happening in the living room. So, unlike GTALug'er Paul Mora who I gather has set-up a 100% MythTV machine in his living room, my MythTV box is expected to do multiple duties. As for how it is working, I have some conflicts between two TV tuner cards (a Hauppauge PVR-150, and a no-name card based around one of the Phillips SAA71xx chipsets). Between finishing the Linux Journal website article on Jeff Waugh, preparing for/having family in town for the holidays I have not had the time to get to the bottom of the tuner card problems (hopefully this weekend, all before I start getting deep into my next article :-) ). A suggestion, if you need/want multiple tuners, go with all one type (i.e. all Hauppauge PVR series or Avermedia M179 or ...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 15:13:46 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:13:46 -0500 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? Message-ID: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a command at each level. They called it "ws". Is there an equivalent in Linux? I did a quick look through my reference material and couldn't find it, so I thought I would ask before I set out to write my own. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 15:38:13 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:38:13 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? Message-ID: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I've been following progress on a tool for David Allen's Getting Things Done methodology (if you haven't heard of it, check it out here -- http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/qid=1136388933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/701-9147722-8397935 and browse the web for "GTD") The tool is called Tasktoy (www.tasktoy.com), and the developer is hosting this rather interesting specialized content management tool on his own server. I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? I have found it very difficult to penetrate the nether regions of the open source licensing world, so any help the experts here could provide would be appreciated! Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 15:54:35 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:54:35 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I've been following progress on a tool for David Allen's Getting > Things Done methodology (if you haven't heard of it, check it out here > -- http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/qid=1136388933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/701-9147722-8397935 > and browse the web for "GTD") > > The tool is called Tasktoy (www.tasktoy.com), and the developer is > hosting this rather interesting specialized content management tool on > his own server. I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his > concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for > it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would > restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? It's not "free software" if it is restricted that way. Linux would have been no more than a historical curiosity if Linus had restricted its use to "personal only, no commercial." Ditto for each and every piece of software included in a Linux distribution. If your friend doesn't want it used for "commercial" purposes outside his control, then it is futile to "open source" it. The whole point of "open sourcing" something is to expressly give up that control. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 16:04:44 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:04:44 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's the major "open" licenses compared: http://www.croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/opensource/ http://developer.kde.org/documentation/licensing/licenses_summary.html Most all of the "personal use" or "academic use" licenses really don't fall into "open source". There is no reason that a give person cannot give you his code as is, without making it public. Copywrite law covers the actual code pretty well. -Joseph- On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I've been following progress on a tool for David Allen's Getting > Things Done methodology (if you haven't heard of it, check it out here > -- http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/qid=1136388933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/701-9147722-8397935 > and browse the web for "GTD") > > The tool is called Tasktoy (www.tasktoy.com), and the developer is > hosting this rather interesting specialized content management tool on > his own server. I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his > concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for > it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would > restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? > > I have found it very difficult to penetrate the nether regions of the > open source licensing world, so any help the experts here could > provide would be appreciated! > > Cheers, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:11:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:11:20 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > >>I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? >> >> > >It's not "free software" if it is restricted that way. > > Christopher is absolutely correct. By both the GNU definition of free software and the OSI definition of open source, you may not restrict the "type" of use (ie, non-commercial, education only, etc.). >Linux would have been no more than a historical curiosity if Linus had >restricted its use to "personal only, no commercial." > > This is indeed the fate of Minix, the pet project of an operating systems professor where Linus went to school. It wasn't until April 2000 that Minix (whose history dates back to the 60s) removed the "educational use only" restriction, but by that time Linux was well established. Arguably had Andrew Tannenbaum not had that restriction, and allowed Linus to build on the what existed rather than re-invent a Unix-like OS under the GPL, things might be quite different today. Instead of being known as one of the co-creators of one of the world's most popular operating systems or at least remembered for all the system software research he did, Tannenbaum will likely be most remembered for his 1992 "Linux is obsolete" flamewar provocation in the Minix Usenet newsgroup. >If your friend doesn't want it used for "commercial" purposes outside >his control, then it is futile to "open source" it. The whole point >of "open sourcing" something is to expressly give up that control. > > Well, there are some subtle exceptions. The Mozilla license is open source, yet retained extra rights to its creators. As the original author you can't control the use of the code you release, however you CAN: - Prevent others from distributing proprietary modifications (ie, the GPL) - Reserve for yourself the right to make proprietary modifications (ie, MPL) While being open source does not prohibit others from reselling the software, using the GPL prevents anyone from selling a closed enhancement. And it's hard to charge a lot of money for something when your neighbour can freely download and copy the SAME thing. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:35:12 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:35:12 -0500 Subject: Red Hat Single user mode Message-ID: Hi, Sometimes back, I read Unix system administration handbook ISBN 0-13-020601-6. (It is one fun book to read by the way). On page 24, they claim Red hat single mode is useless, since they mount every binary, vim, ls, lsof etc dynamically linked. (My hypothesis is, this could be driven by the need to enforce GPL) Now, my question is, is this claim still true today? Does anyone share their opinion here? I booted into single mode and noticed they still mount all the files, read only though. What is the need of this mode then, other than to provide some RHEC questions? Now, emergency mode is the complete opposite. Little is mounted and the system can only be called unfriendly and can't think of much I can do in that mode except: * dd the hard disk content. (Not a big deal, since the same could be achieved from a live CD * fsck the file system. Can be done from a live CD?? Isn't this true? And on top of that, if fsck didn't fix the filesystem automatically, you are in real mess unless you are Reiser or Tweedie. How do people learn the hacks beyond this point? I understand there is a tool called "fsdb" (file system debugger), but it don't seem to be ext3 supported. Any advice or suggestion on what can be done in these modes is highly appreaciated. Last but not least. I am under the impression that the difference between "telinit 1" and "telinit s" is the former go from graphical mode, for example to single mode, while the later is like /sbin/shutdown -r now followed by "linux -s" when the system is coming back up? Am I in the right direction here or am I dead in the water? Thank you in advance for your help William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:46:35 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 12:46:35 -0500 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: bob writes: > QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a > command at each level. They called it "ws". > > Is there an equivalent in Linux? Sure. It's called find(1): find -type d (maybe -depth) and then pipe that to xargs(1) or use the -exec option with find. I usually prefer xargs(1). Especially if there are a lot of matches. > I did a quick look through my reference material and couldn't find it, so I > thought I would ask before I set out to write my own. It's very rare that I have to resort to writing my own programs. Unix tools generally are flexible enough to do what you want. You may want to consider grabbing a reference book like 'Linux in a Nutshell' and read over a lot of the utilities that are available (or just start pouring over the section 1 man pages). HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:52:54 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 12:52:54 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC01B8.3000900-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > >> I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his concern is that > >> someone would post their own version and charge for it. So the question > >> became: is there an open source licence that would restrict use to > >> personal only, and not commercial? > > > >It's not "free software" if it is restricted that way. > > Christopher is absolutely correct. By both the GNU definition of free > software and the OSI definition of open source, you may not restrict the > "type" of use (ie, non-commercial, education only, etc.). Does he mean 'make modifications and not share it' or just start selling it? If the former, the GPL is good enough except for situations like hosting solutions where you are selling the service more than the 'product'. The upcoming revision to the GPL is going to fix those situations too (don't know what the new bugs will be, though :). > - Prevent others from distributing proprietary modifications (ie, the GPL) > - Reserve for yourself the right to make proprietary modifications (ie, MPL) You can also do things like what DJB does. You can modify and redistribute but you can't call it . Also, any copyright owner on anything 'open source' has the right to make proprietary mods as well as 'selling' the software with different licenses. > While being open source does not prohibit others from reselling the software, > using the GPL prevents anyone from selling a closed enhancement. And it's > hard to charge a lot of money for something when your neighbour can freely > download and copy the SAME thing. It sounds like the guy has some decisions to make. If he doesn't want commercial exploitation, for example, because he plans on doing it himself, it behooves him to get that ball rolling. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:44:14 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:44:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC01B8.3000900-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060104174414.67941.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >Linux would have been no more than a historical > curiosity if Linus had > >restricted its use to "personal only, no > commercial." > > > > > This is indeed the fate of Minix, the pet project of > an operating > systems professor where Linus went to school. No. Minix was created by Andrew Tanenbaum at Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, while Linus Torvalds went to school at University of Helsinki. Andrew Tanenbaum's goal with Minix was something that he could use to teach, so there were two considerations for him, first he wasn't interested in creating a general purpose OS, and second any licence conditions had to take into account what the text book publisher wanted. Both these considerations meant that Andrew Tanenbaum couldn't/wouldn't do what Linus did do. > It wasn't until April 2000 that Minix (whose history > dates back to the > 60s) removed the "educational use only" restriction, > but by that time > Linux was well established. Arguably had Andrew > Tannenbaum not had that > restriction, and allowed Linus to build on the what > existed rather than > re-invent a Unix-like OS under the GPL, things might > be quite different > today. > > Instead of being known as one of the co-creators of > one of the world's > most popular operating systems or at least > remembered for all the system > software research he did, Tannenbaum will likely be > most remembered for > his 1992 "Linux is obsolete" flamewar provocation in > the Minix Usenet > newsgroup. Well, Andrew Tannenbaum is a passionate believer in micro kernels, while Linus went with a monolithic kernel. Micro kernels look great on paper, but have a performance hit that Linus wasn't willing to accept. In the years to come who knows, maybe the the micro kernels will win out over the monolithic kernels in the way over 10s of millions of years mammals won over reptiles. But for now at least the monolithic kernels reign supreme over the landscape. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 17:45:24 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:45:24 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC01B8.3000900-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/4/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > > > >>I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? > >> > >> > > > >It's not "free software" if it is restricted that way. > > > > > Christopher is absolutely correct. By both the GNU definition of free > software and the OSI definition of open source, you may not restrict the > "type" of use (ie, non-commercial, education only, etc.). > > >Linux would have been no more than a historical curiosity if Linus had > >restricted its use to "personal only, no commercial." > > > > > This is indeed the fate of Minix, the pet project of an operating > systems professor where Linus went to school. > > It wasn't until April 2000 that Minix (whose history dates back to the > 60s) removed the "educational use only" restriction, but by that time > Linux was well established. Arguably had Andrew Tannenbaum not had that > restriction, and allowed Linus to build on the what existed rather than > re-invent a Unix-like OS under the GPL, things might be quite different > today. That probably would not have worked well. If Linus started from an established OS, there was no way he could have achieved the power he currently holds. There would be different folks (See BSD), and though GPL allow for later merging, that is very wasteful. Better the way it happened. A bit of re-inventing initially, but only one tree from then on. William > > Instead of being known as one of the co-creators of one of the world's > most popular operating systems or at least remembered for all the system > software research he did, Tannenbaum will likely be most remembered for > his 1992 "Linux is obsolete" flamewar provocation in the Minix Usenet > newsgroup. > > >If your friend doesn't want it used for "commercial" purposes outside > >his control, then it is futile to "open source" it. The whole point > >of "open sourcing" something is to expressly give up that control. > > > > > Well, there are some subtle exceptions. The Mozilla license is open > source, yet retained extra rights to its creators. As the original > author you can't control the use of the code you release, however you CAN: > > - Prevent others from distributing proprietary modifications (ie, the GPL) > - Reserve for yourself the right to make proprietary modifications (ie, MPL) > > While being open source does not prohibit others from reselling the > software, using the GPL prevents anyone from selling a closed > enhancement. And it's hard to charge a lot of money for something when > your neighbour can freely download and copy the SAME thing. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 19:19:34 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:19:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Job posting: sysadmin position Message-ID: The company I work for is looking to hire a sysadmin-type person. The job involves working with both windows and linux machines (mostly debian, but some older redhat machines as well), both in our office and remotely. You can find details at: http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?OrderNum=1786666&Source=JobPosting For more info on our company: http://www.pbsdrive.com JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From littleguru-SCQLB4S1TZOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 19:45:20 2006 From: littleguru-SCQLB4S1TZOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (guru) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:45:20 -0500 Subject: Job posting: sysadmin position In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BC25D0.4040004@bellnet.ca> Hello John, Thanks for job posting . I have applied. Babak John Vetterli wrote: > The company I work for is looking to hire a sysadmin-type person. The > job involves working with both windows and linux machines (mostly > debian, but some older redhat machines as well), both in our office > and remotely. > > You can find details at: > http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?OrderNum=1786666&Source=JobPosting > > > For more info on our company: > http://www.pbsdrive.com > > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 20:02:14 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:02:14 -0500 Subject: [denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org: OANDA job description] Message-ID: <20060104150214.A29083@diamond.ss.org> ----- Forwarded message from Denise McKinnon-Frew ----- X-Original-To: billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org Delivered-To: billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org Delivered-To: bthanis-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:29:46 -0500 From: Denise McKinnon-Frew User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, qwerty172-wzCN7aUSXSrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Subject: OANDA job description Hello, I finally got the job description from Oanda today. I forwarded the word version and copied and pasted a text version below. Bill ---------------------------------------------- Hello Bill, Please find attached the job description for the System Admin position here at OANDA. Just let me know if you have any questions. Regards, Denise Denise McKinnon-Frew Recruiter OANDA 30 St. Patrick Street, Suite 300 Toronto, Ontario M5T 3A3 416-586-0328 Extension 214 denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------ Systems Administrator OANDA CORPORATION Job Type: Full Time Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA; Job Category: Engineering-Computer Company URL: http://www.oanda.com Posted Date: January 2006 Experience: 4 years OANDA Corporation, a world leader in foreign exchange trading technology, is seeking bright, enthusiastic system administrators to join the extremely talented and experienced team at our downtown Toronto location. Job description: Installation/maintenance of corporate Windows/Linux developer workstations and Sun dev/test servers Installation/maintenance of corporate LAN Installation/maintenance of external production environments/deployments Security policy creation/auditing/enforcement Distributed network storage management Backup/restore architecture Code repository management Webserver installation, configuration and performance tuning Email/namesaver administration Skills/Qualifications: 4+ years experience Solid knowledge of: Solaris 2.x; storage management (SVM), networking and general admin Subversion/CVS Apache 1.3.x Redhat Linux; storage management (LVM), networking and general admin TCP/IP, SSL, SNMP and other common networking protocols BIND/DNS Qmail/Postfix Scripting; bash and perl Assets: Experience building HA clusters using Solaris tools (IP Multipathing, TrafficManager) DB2 database admin Please??submit a brief cover letter introducing yourself along with a resume that outlines your work experience, achievements, qualifications, and credentials. Contact information: denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:22:53 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 21:22:53 +0000 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> With the GPL can't you charge a reasonable amount for the code to say cover costs.. Also with the gpl don't you have to also publish what changes you have made, to the original code, and say this is different to the original version if you are going to relase your own version, Paul Joseph Kubik wrote: >Here's the major "open" licenses compared: > >http://www.croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/opensource/ > >http://developer.kde.org/documentation/licensing/licenses_summary.html > >Most all of the "personal use" or "academic use" licenses really don't >fall into "open source". >There is no reason that a give person cannot give you his code as is, >without making it public. Copywrite law covers the actual code pretty >well. >-Joseph- > >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > >>Hi there, >>I've been following progress on a tool for David Allen's Getting >>Things Done methodology (if you haven't heard of it, check it out here >>-- http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/qid=1136388933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/701-9147722-8397935 >>and browse the web for "GTD") >> >>The tool is called Tasktoy (www.tasktoy.com), and the developer is >>hosting this rather interesting specialized content management tool on >>his own server. I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his >>concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for >>it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would >>restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? >> >>I have found it very difficult to penetrate the nether regions of the >>open source licensing world, so any help the experts here could >>provide would be appreciated! >> >>Cheers, >>Aaron. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:25:30 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 21:25:30 +0000 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BC3D4A.4070506@zen.co.uk> I have forwarded this to my local lug in the uK as there are a few members who are clued up on all the GPL stuff, Hope this helps Paul Joseph Kubik wrote: >Here's the major "open" licenses compared: > >http://www.croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/opensource/ > >http://developer.kde.org/documentation/licensing/licenses_summary.html > >Most all of the "personal use" or "academic use" licenses really don't >fall into "open source". >There is no reason that a give person cannot give you his code as is, >without making it public. Copywrite law covers the actual code pretty >well. >-Joseph- > >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > >>Hi there, >>I've been following progress on a tool for David Allen's Getting >>Things Done methodology (if you haven't heard of it, check it out here >>-- http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/qid=1136388933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/701-9147722-8397935 >>and browse the web for "GTD") >> >>The tool is called Tasktoy (www.tasktoy.com), and the developer is >>hosting this rather interesting specialized content management tool on >>his own server. I've asked about him open-sourcing the tool, but his >>concern is that someone would post their own version and charge for >>it. So the question became: is there an open source licence that would >>restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? >> >>I have found it very difficult to penetrate the nether regions of the >>open source licensing world, so any help the experts here could >>provide would be appreciated! >> >>Cheers, >>Aaron. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:45:36 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 16:45:36 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC3CAD.7010805-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: Paul Sutton writes: > With the GPL can't you charge a reasonable amount for the code to say cover > costs.. I don't think that the word 'reasonable' is used ;) Also, if you have a derived work or just use some GPL'ed code in your product, you can also charge whatever you like. Just look at the various distro prices. Almost identical software but prices range from free to $1000s. > Also with the gpl don't you have to also publish what changes you > have made, to the original code, No. You have to make the new code available to anyone that gets the 'product'. Of course, it's easier to just make it downloadable but you don't have to. If the code never leaves your biz, you have no obligations to spread it around. > and say this is different to the original > version if you are going to relase your own version, No. I don't think so. It is polite to rename it or indicate that it is different, though. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:36:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:36:54 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <43BAE521.4060208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43BADB97.5060108@telly.org> <20060103202421.GF26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BAE521.4060208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060104213654.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 03:57:05PM -0500, Paul DiRezze wrote: > Do you have any links handy for the case with built-in LCD display? Well this one for example: Silverstone LC16M http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc16m.htm Has a VFD display and ir port, and has a link on the page to linux drivers for both. Solves the whole ability to display neat stuff on the case about what is playing and such, and the remote receiver at the same time. And it takes full normal ATX boards so you can add all the tuners and sound card stuff you want. I would personally love one of these cases if I get to build a HTPC. They also have the LC18 which has a 7" LCD VGA touch screen, which it seems should work with linux, although I haven't found anything that says so for sure. Probably also costs a lot more. Hmm, a bit of searching says that there are drivers from the touch screen maker for various versions of linux, although given it includes xfree86 driver source code, it can be fixed to work with anything, assuming it isn't already included by now. The output is of course just a plain VGA connector. Could be neat to have the X display running a touch screen interface on the front of the case, while the TV output goes to your tv for the video display and menus for the remote. They claim the 7" screen does up to 1600x1024, which seems rather amazing, but it may just be scaling it. Not sure what the native resolution would be. These things aren't cheap, but they include things you might otherwise have to pay extra for. http://www.canadacomputers.com has the LC16BM/SM (black/silver) for $330. Even comes with a remote. That means you can get the cheaper non remote PVR cards that are meant for MCE systems that already have a remote. No idea what the LC18 costs. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:39:36 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:39:36 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 05:29:02PM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > With regards to the /boot ... > > Ubuntu says that LILO supports booting from LVM, but GRUB does not. I've > been successful in making an Ubuntu box with RAID 1 on two 200GB SATA > drives. Each drive includes a single primary partition of type RAID and > the rest is LVM. > > After a few days of trying, I am still unsuccessful in getting the same > setup going on two 250GB EIDE drives. LILO fails to load the kernel, RAID > or no RAID, but GRUB works fine without RAID. Personally I used to manually mirror /boot partitions before grub supported software raid1. Now that it does software raid1, I use md raid1 for /boot (which I should really have as part of / given there is no reason not to anymore). I do not put / on LVM, since I like having at least a minimal system bootable if something does get messed up. I know some initrd generating tools now do LVM, but a year and a half ago, few if any did. So really, keeping / seperate from lvm seems simpler for booting and system recovery and such. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:51:47 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:51:47 -0500 Subject: [denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org: OANDA job description] In-Reply-To: <20060104150214.A29083-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104150214.A29083@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20060104215147.GA3472@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 03:02:14PM -0500, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Assets: > Experience building HA clusters using Solaris tools (IP Multipathing, TrafficManager) > DB2 database admin Hey, not fair! That means, they only want those who recently got laidoff from Sun and IBM. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:55:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:55:34 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC01B8.3000900-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060104215534.GI26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 12:11:20PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher is absolutely correct. By both the GNU definition of free > software and the OSI definition of open source, you may not restrict the > "type" of use (ie, non-commercial, education only, etc.). > > This is indeed the fate of Minix, the pet project of an operating > systems professor where Linus went to school. Are you sure? I thought Linus did his school stuff in Finland, and Andy Tanenbaum is I believe from the Netherlands. Minix was available for educational use with a book that was quite well known at the time. > It wasn't until April 2000 that Minix (whose history dates back to the > 60s) removed the "educational use only" restriction, but by that time > Linux was well established. Arguably had Andrew Tannenbaum not had that > restriction, and allowed Linus to build on the what existed rather than > re-invent a Unix-like OS under the GPL, things might be quite different > today. Minix was released in 1987. Hardly the 60s. Given it runs on x86 systems, the 60s would have been difficult. Not sure how old the microkernel idea is, but that's as far back as it's history goes. Being a unix like system certainly also limits it's history to the 70s. > Instead of being known as one of the co-creators of one of the world's > most popular operating systems or at least remembered for all the system > software research he did, Tannenbaum will likely be most remembered for > his 1992 "Linux is obsolete" flamewar provocation in the Minix Usenet > newsgroup. People that know anything about computers know him for a lot more than that. He has written some very good books on operating systems and other computer system topics. > Well, there are some subtle exceptions. The Mozilla license is open > source, yet retained extra rights to its creators. As the original > author you can't control the use of the code you release, however you CAN: > > - Prevent others from distributing proprietary modifications (ie, the GPL) > - Reserve for yourself the right to make proprietary modifications (ie, MPL) > > While being open source does not prohibit others from reselling the > software, using the GPL prevents anyone from selling a closed > enhancement. And it's hard to charge a lot of money for something when > your neighbour can freely download and copy the SAME thing. Well there certainly are companies that take GPL code and modify it and sell the result without giving source code to the customer. Certainly violates the license. They can be sued of course, but someone with the rights to do so has to do so, and be able to afford to do it. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 21:58:14 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:58:14 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <20060104174414.67941.qmail-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> <20060104174414.67941.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060104215814.GJ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 12:44:14PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > No. Minix was created by Andrew Tanenbaum at Vrije > Universiteit in Amsterdam, while Linus Torvalds went > to school at University of Helsinki. Andrew > Tanenbaum's goal with Minix was something that he > could use to teach, so there were two considerations > for him, first he wasn't interested in creating a > general purpose OS, and second any licence conditions > had to take into account what the text book publisher > wanted. Both these considerations meant that Andrew > Tanenbaum couldn't/wouldn't do what Linus did do. Minix is now released under the BSD license. But a bit late for that now I guess. :) > Well, Andrew Tannenbaum is a passionate believer in > micro kernels, while Linus went with a monolithic > kernel. Micro kernels look great on paper, but have a > performance hit that Linus wasn't willing to accept. > In the years to come who knows, maybe the the micro > kernels will win out over the monolithic kernels in > the way over 10s of millions of years mammals won over > reptiles. But for now at least the monolithic kernels > reign supreme over the landscape. I thought Windows NT was supposed to be "microkernel" based, although who knows if anyone kind find the kernel under all that other crap. Mac OS X runs on the mach microkernel, although I am not sure if they follow the microkernel philosphy completely, or cheated to gain performance in some places. Certainly the use of objective C is very suited for a message passing based system in general. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:02:21 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:02:21 -0400 (AST) Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: > > and say this is different to the original > > version if you are going to relase your own version, > > No. I don't think so. It is polite to rename it or indicate that it is > different, though. Names of products are typically covered by the trademark laws, rather than the copyright laws. Hypothetical examples: I make an app, call it foobar, and release it under GPL. You take my app, change it, and release under the same name. What can I do about it? Pretty much nothing. I don't have the money to sue you, my business is not based on foobar, and you don't have much money that I can get from you. In this example, if I sue you, I end up losing money on costs. If you take Ubuntu Linux, change it, and release it under the same name, Canonical Inc, the trade mark holder of Ubuntu, could sue you. If you're poor, they may also lose money on costs that they won't recover from you. But since Ubuntu is the basis of Canonical's Linux, it is important for them to protect the name. I hope the above example are sufficiently accurate to be useful :O) Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:02:33 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:02:33 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060104220233.GK26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 12:52:54PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Does he mean 'make modifications and not share it' or just start selling it? > If the former, the GPL is good enough except for situations like hosting > solutions where you are selling the service more than the 'product'. The > upcoming revision to the GPL is going to fix those situations too (don't know > what the new bugs will be, though :). > > You can also do things like what DJB does. You can modify and redistribute > but you can't call it . I thought djb didn't allow any binary distribution if there were any modifications. Source code/patches only. Hence the entire problem with djb's software license. Same for pine and related mail software. > Also, any copyright owner on anything 'open source' has the right to make > proprietary mods as well as 'selling' the software with different licenses. But if they accept patches and such, what license does that fall under? At least mozilla explicitly states what the license is and what they intend to do with patches. > It sounds like the guy has some decisions to make. If he doesn't want > commercial exploitation, for example, because he plans on doing it himself, > it behooves him to get that ball rolling. Depends on how people feel about their code. Some thing the work must be paid for and hence won't want anyone else to make money from it if they don't. Others think the work itself was the goal, and that the more people it helps the better. If someone makes money from it, that's fine too. They often go for the BSD license. The ones that want to pretect every users ability to do the same, tend to prefer the GPL. Personally I am more of a BSD type of person. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:04:59 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:04:59 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC3CAD.7010805-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060104220459.GL26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 09:22:53PM +0000, Paul Sutton wrote: > With the GPL can't you charge a reasonable amount for the code to say > cover costs.. Also with the gpl don't you have to also publish what > changes you have made, to the original code, and say this is different > to the original version if you are going to relase your own version, If you make changes and give someone a binary, they have the right to ask for the code and you must offer them the source code. If you make changes and only use the result yourself, the GPL doesn't say anything about that. This is where web services start to get complicated. Is letting a user use something through a web interface or other remote access distributing the program or not? I expect the GPLv3 will have something to say about that. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:05:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:05:54 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060104220554.GM26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 04:45:36PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > I don't think that the word 'reasonable' is used ;) > > Also, if you have a derived work or just use some GPL'ed code in your > product, you can also charge whatever you like. > > Just look at the various distro prices. Almost identical software but prices > range from free to $1000s. That often includes tech support and other services. > No. You have to make the new code available to anyone that gets the > 'product'. Of course, it's easier to just make it downloadable but you don't > have to. > > If the code never leaves your biz, you have no obligations to spread it > around. > > No. I don't think so. It is polite to rename it or indicate that it is > different, though. Agreed. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:10:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:10:10 -0500 Subject: multihomed box In-Reply-To: <200601041709.45483.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20060104221010.GN26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 05:09:45PM +0800, JM wrote: > I have a linux with 1 NIC card with 5 IPs > > eth0, eth0:0, etc.. > > a client gave us an API that connects to a server w/c uses eth0's IP. Im > wondering if I can use eth0:0's IP when it connects to the server... Outgoing traffic uses the default IP set for the route used to go out. You can change that if you want with iproute2 (ip blah blah command). More fancy stuff can be done with iproute2 and using iptables to mark certain packets to control the ip and route based on packet marking. It is also possible for an application to bind to an IP or specify which IP to use when sending. Most don't and hence get whatever the system default is. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:16:43 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:16:43 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B685BF.70903-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060104221643.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 08:21:03AM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > While I'm normally a huge awk booster, and my awk-fu skills get heavy > use in meteorological data munging, it wouldn't make a very good > general-purpose first language. Its operational mode (basically, execute > this program for every line of the input) only works well for text > stream processing. > > If your learners are doing that, it's a very quick language to > teach/learn. I used to teach it to lexicographers for processing > dictionary text, and they always astonished me how well they took to it. > > If I were to be teaching a language, I'd want: > * block structure > * painless associative arrays/hashes (computers aren't just about > numbers) > * typelessness, for the most part (1 equals "1"; don't make me > have to worry about details) But then won't it be harder to teach them proper coding later when types matter? Strongly typed languages help avoid many bugs since the compiler just won't accept the code in most cases if it isn't right. > * flexible and obvious data structure definition/use (I love Perl's > flexibility here, but the syntax would be odious to explain) Did you just use perl and obvious in the same sentenc? Flexible yes, obvious no. Downright confusing and insanity inducing in some cases. > * simple graphics capabilities (maybe I'm showing my age here, but > the ability to draw stuff without having to worry about OS > dependencies would be a big help; people like pretty pictures) > * copious and sensible debugging/error messages. > > OO and other dogma can come later. This would be for teaching regular > folks (not computer-scientists-to-be) that you can make computers do the > things that you want, not just obey some application's set of rules. > > Incidentally, I haven't yet found one language that does all that, and > I've been looking for about 20 years. In my mind, I'm seeing a Perl/GFA > Basic/PostScript sort-of hybrid, and it's looking just as nasty to me as > it does to you. python + wxwindows perhaps? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:17:41 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:17:41 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060104221741.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 03:42:17PM +0200, Peter wrote: > SWI Prolog + parser/lexer library + Tk bindings ? Prolog is too darn painful to do many types of problems in. It is however really neat for certain types of problems. I would have never though of doing graphics with it. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:18:16 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:18:16 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B6983C.2-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060104221816.GQ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 09:39:56AM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I didn't think it was possible to have a nastier syntax than my imagined > Perl/GFA Basic/PostScript sort-of hybrid, but Prolog takes the cake. It > doesn't look like any other programming language. It doesn't work like any other language either. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:21:25 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:21:25 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <43B6983C.2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060104222125.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 05:05:36PM +0200, Peter wrote: > It looks like Horn clauses. Or like C-notation lambda expressions with > ':-', ',', '.' and ';' replacing a lot of parentheses. Or like plain > math function descriptions. Which are more or less the same thing. Be > f(x) = {x for x>=0, -x for x<0 }. Except the functions can be symbolic. > neighbors(A,B,[L]) = { ... }. Writing a simple parser that parses a > problem setup as above into valid Prolog is failry easy and could be a > part of the default library. More importantly Prolog can explain what it > is doing while running. With a simple filter to reduce the verbosity of > a trace or explain it should be very helpful. > > I don't think that this is a crazy idea. According to links posted on > this list yesterday, using the highest level available language is the > best idea. Prolog is certainly high level. For non-symbolic calculus > only maybe Matlab or Scilab could be considered. > > If the goal is to teach problem setup and solving, then high level > language is good. If the goal is to grind and drill good typing habits, > assembly looks great imho, followed by FORRTAN (66) and COBOL probably. > If this is an intro course to prepare for a real CS degree then a subset > of C++ or something like it should be taught imho, simply because that > is the mainstream now. For something neat that is used in many educational settings, ocaml is rather nice. Strongly typed, lots of nice libraries available, ability to be both compiled and interpreted (interactive even, like python and basic), and native list types, and partial functions, polymorphic functions (done right), etc. Many programing contests for solving fairly complex tasks efficiently in a short amount of time are won by people using ocaml or haskell. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:23:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:23:48 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> References: <20060101021202.GA4474@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> Message-ID: <20060104222348.GS26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 11:53:44PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious > enough. I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. Java is a little > better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its typing > and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour Java. One of these days the java fad will end, people will stop going by buzzwords, and we will all be rid of the classpath hell, and run everywhere code that never does. Really. :) Or so I wish. I can dream, can't I? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:24:34 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:24:34 -0400 (AST) Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: <20060104213936.GH26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I got my problem solved, it seems. I was using an older IDE cable on which HDDs worked fine if accessed only one at a time (either master or slave), but didn't with a RAID boot .. weird. Anyway, I found, experimentally, that putting /boot on LVM on a RAID partition slows down the system boot by about 10 folds. So right now I have /boot on its own and / and swam are on LVM on RAID. The system is fairly slow .. a lot slower than when using the Ubuntu live CD. I think I will try reinstalling with swap on it's own. BTW, is there a need to use LVM for /? E.g., can I have /boot and swap on their own and then / on RAID 1 but without LVM? Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 05:29:02PM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > > With regards to the /boot ... > > > > Ubuntu says that LILO supports booting from LVM, but GRUB does not. I've > > been successful in making an Ubuntu box with RAID 1 on two 200GB SATA > > drives. Each drive includes a single primary partition of type RAID and > > the rest is LVM. > > > > After a few days of trying, I am still unsuccessful in getting the same > > setup going on two 250GB EIDE drives. LILO fails to load the kernel, RAID > > or no RAID, but GRUB works fine without RAID. > > Personally I used to manually mirror /boot partitions before grub > supported software raid1. Now that it does software raid1, I use md > raid1 for /boot (which I should really have as part of / given there is > no reason not to anymore). > > I do not put / on LVM, since I like having at least a minimal system > bootable if something does get messed up. I know some initrd generating > tools now do LVM, but a year and a half ago, few if any did. > > So really, keeping / seperate from lvm seems simpler for booting and > system recovery and such. > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:29:43 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:29:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <20060104215534.GI26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104215534.GI26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060104222943.75217.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Are you sure? I thought Linus did his school stuff > in Finland, and Andy > Tanenbaum is I believe from the Netherlands. Minix > was available for > educational use with a book that was quite well > known at the time. Small side note Andrew Tanenbaum is an American citizen living in the Netherlands. During the 2004 U.S. Presidential race Prof. Tanenbaum ran a website that attempted to track where the U.S. Electoral vote would end up (with editorial comments on the website that were negative towards George Bush and positive towards John Kerry). You can read the tracking website here: http://www.electoral-vote.com/ And Prof. Tanenbaum's autobiography is here: http://www.electoral-vote.com/2004/info/votemaster-faq.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:32:52 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:32:52 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060104223252.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 06:24:34PM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > I got my problem solved, it seems. I was using an older IDE cable on which > HDDs worked fine if accessed only one at a time (either master or slave), > but didn't with a RAID boot .. weird. > > Anyway, I found, experimentally, that putting /boot on LVM on a RAID > partition slows down the system boot by about 10 folds. So right now I > have /boot on its own and / and swam are on LVM on RAID. The system is > fairly slow .. a lot slower than when using the Ubuntu live CD. I think I > will try reinstalling with swap on it's own. > > BTW, is there a need to use LVM for /? E.g., can I have /boot and swap on > their own and then / on RAID 1 but without LVM? You can just make md0 be / and md1 be the LVM. Nothing wrong with that. Do not EVER put two harddisks on one cable in the same raid by the way. Not sure how yours is set up. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:38:18 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:38:18 -0400 (AST) Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: <20060104223252.GT26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104223252.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Do not EVER put two harddisks on one cable in the same raid by the way. > Not sure how yours is set up. Why not? Performance related or fault-tolerance related? The physical properties of the case that I have make it very difficult to setup otherwise. The new cable that they make have a short distance between the master and slave heads, not long enough for my devices. The older and longer cables don't seem to work with the new HDDs. Cheers, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:45:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104223252.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060104224517.GU26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 06:38:18PM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > Why not? Performance related or fault-tolerance related? The physical > properties of the case that I have make it very difficult to setup > otherwise. The new cable that they make have a short distance between the > master and slave heads, not long enough for my devices. The older and > longer cables don't seem to work with the new HDDs. If an ide device fails, it will often take down the bus at the same time. This is very different from how a scsi bus reacts. So if you want the raid to be reliable during drive failures, you nver put more than one drive in a raid per IDE cable. Performance wise, IDE also tends to be much slower when devices share the connector. Disks don't disconnect and let the bus send other commands while a transfer is being retrieved. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 22:57:47 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 17:57:47 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: Tony Abou-Assaleh writes: > > No. I don't think so. It is polite to rename it or indicate that it is > > different, though. > > Names of products are typically covered by the trademark laws, rather than > the copyright laws. > > Hypothetical examples: > > I make an app, call it foobar, and release it under GPL. You take my app, > change it, and release under the same name. What can I do about it? Pretty > much nothing. I don't have the money to sue you, my business is not based > on foobar, and you don't have much money that I can get from you. In this > example, if I sue you, I end up losing money on costs. Plus the original author probably didn't ever formally register the trademark. Then it gets to be more fun. Anyone remember the battle over the US 'Linux' trademark a few years ago? :) I know of at least one _very_ popular package that claims to be trademarked by a TLA'd company but, in fact, isn't (I asked the original author once). Anyone can slap a (tm) beside a name. There are other ways to skin a cat, too. The prez of HLUG had an online game that he (and others) wrote. Recently, someone in Portugal (or Spain) packaged it up and started selling it. When asked to cease and desist, he said 'FU'. They then contacted his university and explained what the guy was doing, on university computer no less, and the guy was inches away from expulsion. nice outcome. > I hope the above example are sufficiently accurate to be useful :O) You could have just explained the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. :) -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 23:18:25 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:18:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Well, now we know who to blame Message-ID: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >From the CES program: ---------------------------------------------------- EVENTS Pre-show Keynote Address Bill Gates, Chairman and Chief Software Architect, Microsoft Corp. 6:30 p.m. Wednesday, January 4, Las Vegas Hilton ---------------------------------------------------- Bill, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Windows *has* an architecture. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 23:53:39 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 18:53:39 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <20060104220233.GK26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC01B8.3000900@telly.org> <20060104220233.GK26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > > You can also do things like what DJB does. You can modify and redistribute > > but you can't call it . > > I thought djb didn't allow any binary distribution if there were any > modifications. Source code/patches only. Hence the entire problem with > djb's software license. Same for pine and related mail software. That's correct. While DJB does say this about qmail: If you want to distribute modified versions of qmail (including ports, no matter how minor the changes are) you'll have to get my approval. This does not mean approval of your distribution method, your intentions, your e-mail address, your haircut, or any other irrelevant information. It means a detailed review of the exact package that you want to distribute. But I was wrong about it being a general rule (and no rename). I thought that I confused myself with the original NPL (Netscape Public License) but the OSI don't list that any longer. So I looked at the MPL and it only says that you have to rename the name of the license (the MPL and other names) if you derive a new license. Now I'm just confused and pissed off at how many stupid licenses there are for, essentially, the same model. I really hope that the Creative Commons license family catch on more. Hmm, I think that I'm going to write a ridiculous license for some stuff and get it OSI approved :) > > Also, any copyright owner on anything 'open source' has the right to make > > proprietary mods as well as 'selling' the software with different licenses. > > But if they accept patches and such, what license does that fall under? > At least mozilla explicitly states what the license is and what they > intend to do with patches. Ah, there's the rub. It's the copyright holders that get to specify the license. It's quite possible that some contributor to the Linux kernel could say, "I refuse to let you use my code with your GPL'ed license." Then they would have to yank it from the kernel. Many people think that giving someone a patch automatically transfer copyright to the recipient, too. That isn't so. For an example, check out what you have to do to submit patches to the FSF: http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#Legal-Matters IIRC, any patch over 12 or 14 lines requires this documentation. > > It sounds like the guy has some decisions to make. If he doesn't want > > commercial exploitation, for example, because he plans on doing it himself, > > it behooves him to get that ball rolling. > > Depends on how people feel about their code. Some thing the work must > be paid for and hence won't want anyone else to make money from it if > they don't. Others think the work itself was the goal, and that the > more people it helps the better. If someone makes money from it, that's > fine too. They often go for the BSD license. The ones that want to > pretect every users ability to do the same, tend to prefer the GPL. I think that we're in agreement on that. The guy's got some thinking to do :) > Personally I am more of a BSD type of person. Me, too. On a personal note, I don't think that the GPL is any freer than BSD. GPL is all about freedom for 'the code' whereas BSD is about freedom for 'the user'. Different types of freedom but they both work. "I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me ... I could never get the hang of ideology" -- Tim Curry TTFN, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 4 23:54:41 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 01:54:41 +0200 (IST) Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, bob wrote: > QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a > command at each level. They called it "ws". > > Is there an equivalent in Linux? > > I did a quick look through my reference material and couldn't find it, so I > thought I would ask before I set out to write my own. find /start/here -type d -exec yourcommand youroptions {} \; {} is replaced with each found directory Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 00:07:07 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 02:07:07 +0200 (IST) Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060104221741.GP26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <20060104221741.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 03:42:17PM +0200, Peter wrote: >> SWI Prolog + parser/lexer library + Tk bindings ? > > Prolog is too darn painful to do many types of problems in. It is > however really neat for certain types of problems. I would have never > though of doing graphics with it. I do not understand why Prolog is considered 'painful'. I am no Prolog expert but so far it works fine whenever I need to use it. All the structured programming constructs can be simulated in Prolog but almost nothing that Prolog can do can be duplicated (easily) with something else. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 00:28:27 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:28:27 -0500 Subject: Trademarks versus copyright In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43BC682B.9070507@telly.org> G. Matthew Rice wrote: >>I make an app, call it foobar, and release it under GPL. You take my app, >>change it, and release under the same name. What can I do about it? Pretty >>much nothing. I don't have the money to sue you, my business is not based >>on foobar, and you don't have much money that I can get from you. In this >>example, if I sue you, I end up losing money on costs. >> >> > >Plus the original author probably didn't ever formally register the >trademark. Then it gets to be more fun. Anyone remember the battle over the >US 'Linux' trademark a few years ago? :) > > Trademarks are much looser than copyrights and harder to enforce. There is no international convention that requires countries to honour each others' trademarks, similar to the Berne convention on copyright. So one must register a copyright in each country in which one wants to protect the name (with the notable exception of the EU). You can, like LPI, register in the US, Canada, the EU and Japan. But if someone wants to create a Linux Professional Institute in Burundi or Vietnam, and they got to the trademark office first, they could conceivably get the rights and operate an LPI website internationally from there with impunity. Note that in many countries, trademarks go to the first official registrant NOT to the first user. Aside: Personally I have serious concerns over the name "Linux", even in countries where it has a legally registered trademark. It isn't being protected well at all. Legally you're supposed to get permission to use the trademark "Linux" from the Linux Mark Institute (http://www.linuxmark.org) and pay a fee in order to use it -- how many organizations have actually sought such permission? How many "unauthorized" users of the name have been stopped or even warned? At this rate, "linux" may soon go the way of "thermos" and "aspirin", two one-time trademarks that have become generic words that anyone can use. While the words still have reasonably clear definitions, such definitions are not privately owned or enforceable, moving to the realm of dictionary writers rather than creators or lawyers. Some companies (such as Dow which owns "Fibreglass") go to great lengths to protect their marks, to prevent unauthorized use AND to prevent the words from becoming generic. Yet next to nothing has been spent on protecting "Linux". If Microsoft wanted tomorrow to create a product called "MS-Linux", that contained zero code ever seen by Linus Torvalds, I don't think they could be easily stopped in court. Even should the industry gather the cash for a legal battle, there is a realistic case to be made that the trademark hasn't been adequately protected and thus is a generic term rather than a trademark. Copyrights don't work anything like that. They're valid whether or not you register or protect them. >Anyone can slap a (tm) beside a name. > > The (tm) is legally the trademark equivalent of "patent pending", an assertion that you are submitting a mark for registration but the process is not complete. Legally one shouldn't put a (tm) on any brand that isn't intended to be registered, and (tm) has absolutely no legal weight. That doesn't, as Matt says, stop most folks from asserting trademarks this way. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 00:56:09 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 19:56:09 -0500 Subject: Trademarks versus copyright In-Reply-To: <43BC682B.9070507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> <43BC682B.9070507@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > Aside: Personally I have serious concerns over the name "Linux", even in > countries where it has a legally registered trademark. It isn't being > protected well at all. > > Legally you're supposed to get permission to use the trademark "Linux" from > the Linux Mark Institute (http://www.linuxmark.org) and pay a fee in order to > use it -- how many organizations have actually sought such permission? How > many "unauthorized" users of the name have been stopped or even warned? At > this rate, "linux" may soon go the way of "thermos" and "aspirin", two > one-time trademarks that have become generic words that anyone can use. While > the words still have reasonably clear definitions, such definitions are not > privately owned or enforceable, moving to the realm of dictionary writers > rather than creators or lawyers. Well, I was going to say, check out how Linux International is doing this defense of the trademark (including annual extortion to use the name now) because that's where I thought that I read about it but their site: http://www.li.org is currently coughing up: li.org

Linux International

with a modified date of Dec 19th, 2005. Time to send someone an e-mail... -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 00:58:53 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2006 19:58:53 -0500 Subject: Well, now we know who to blame In-Reply-To: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org writes: > Pre-show Keynote Address > Bill Gates, Chairman and Chief Software Architect, Microsoft Corp. > 6:30 p.m. Wednesday, January 4, Las Vegas Hilton > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Bill, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Windows *has* an architecture. What??? Really? He just builds everything like his own house :) -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 01:06:14 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:06:14 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43BC7106.3080101@istop.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > I know of at least one _very_ popular package that claims to be trademarked > by a TLA'd company but, in fact, isn't (I asked the original author once). > Anyone can slap a (tm) beside a name. > > Trademark (TM) and Registered Trade Mark (R) are almost the same de jure. TM anyone can use. Anyone can claim TM symbol to anything. (R) symbol can be used only when TM has been "registered". Now, the law does not guarantee that (R), once registered, is fully protected. (R) means only that certain recognized institution decided that the symbol registered is unique and, according to that institution does belong to these who registered it. No less and no more. If things find the place in the court it is good to have (R) but that does not guarantee success in the dispute. If one does use (TM) - thats better than not to use it, it has some significance. I could claim my initials (Z*K) to be trademark. I could even, possibly register them as a trademark. In some cases I would win in the court, in some other cases I would not. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 02:10:20 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:10:20 -0500 Subject: What's the state of open source PVRs? In-Reply-To: <20060104131232.13717.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <43BB2A81.4070506@telly.org> <20060104131232.13717.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > So, unlike GTALug'er Paul Mora who I gather has set-up > a 100% MythTV machine in his living room, my MythTV > box is expected to do multiple duties. My original intent was to have the MythTV box act as my Internet web server, music collection server, Samba server, email server (POP/IMAP) as well as do the TV duties. It may eventually get to that point. But the box has become somewhat "mission critical" in my house. Whenever I screw it up (as my dear wife says), I get in lots of trouble. So for right now, it is MythTV and nothing else. There's no reason why I couldn't run the other stuff there too... it basically sits there and does nothing. The CPU is barely used due to the dual Hauppauge cards doing all the compression/decompression in hardware. I am however contemplating building another one, perhaps as a client for upstairs on the second TV and making the main one the "backend server". pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 03:19:47 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:19:47 -0600 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104223252.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601041919u44cef9d0tac5451b7d3dd171e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/06, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > The new cable that they make have a short distance between the > master and slave heads, not long enough for my devices. The older and > longer cables don't seem to work with the new HDDs. New and long cables do exist, and are annoyingly expensive.. if that's an option. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 03:37:25 2006 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 23:37:25 -0400 (AST) Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43BC7106.3080101-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <43BC3CAD.7010805@zen.co.uk> <43BC7106.3080101@istop.com> Message-ID: At least in Canada, the way things are *supposed* to be is: a business uses a symbol/name to identify a product. That 'mark' because, due to usage over time, associated with the product/business. Only after this association has been established by usage that one 'should' use a TM and is allowed (in theory) to register it. In reality, things are more like what Z.K. described below. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Lecturer, Computer Science Department Brock University, St. Catharines, ON, Canada, L2S 3A1 Office: MC J215 Tel: +1(905)688-5550 ext. 5243 Fax: +1(905)688-3255 Email: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org WWW: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~taa/ ----------------------[THE END]---------------------- On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > I know of at least one _very_ popular package that claims to be trademarked > > by a TLA'd company but, in fact, isn't (I asked the original author once). > > Anyone can slap a (tm) beside a name. > > > > > Trademark (TM) and Registered Trade Mark (R) are almost the same de > jure. TM anyone can use. Anyone can claim TM symbol to anything. (R) > symbol can be used only when TM has been "registered". > > Now, the law does not guarantee that (R), once registered, is fully > protected. (R) means only that certain recognized institution decided > that the symbol registered is unique and, according to that institution > does belong to these who registered it. No less and no more. > > If things find the place in the court it is good to have (R) but that > does not guarantee success in the dispute. If one does use (TM) - thats > better than not to use it, it has some significance. > > I could claim my initials (Z*K) to be trademark. I could even, possibly > register them as a trademark. In some cases I would win in the court, in > some other cases I would not. > > zb. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 04:45:37 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:45:37 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> References: <003801c60fa6$329681b0$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <43BCA471.205@interlog.com> Joseph wrote: > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. You have already had most of the suggestions made that I was going to make except for one. You may find TUX magazine (http://www.tuxmagazine.com/) of interest. It is an electronic magazine available for free via the net. It bills itself as "The first and only magazine for the new linux user". Back issues are also available online. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 05:14:39 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:14:39 -0500 Subject: UML vs. vserver vs. xen Message-ID: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e@mail.gmail.com> I am looking to setup a box (Athlon XP +1800, 512MB RAM) as a home server, using Apache to host 1 or 2 websites, a MySQL database, email (Postfix or Exim), maybe learn more about DNS caching. Is anybody out there doing something similar implemented in 'virtual machines' using UML or vserver or xen? My original intention was to go with a minimal Debian 'stable' install, and add the necessary services one-by-one, but I am intrigued by some of the virtualization solutions available. It may be more work to setup UML or vserver or xen in the beginning, but it appears to offer greater flexibility to manage services and possibly greater security?? What I want to do: - make use of a single server (Athlon XP +1800, 512MB RAM) - use debian 'stable' as the base install - use same version of debian for all the 'virtual' machines as well - a single admin (me) - no X server required Right now I am leaning towards the vserver option, as this way all the virtual machines make use of the single underlying kernel and I would think this makes a lighter demand on this older hardware as opposed to UML or xen, where every virtual machine has its own kernel. The trade-off is in robustness - if something goes wrong with your kernel, all your virtual machines are hosed. Anybody have any experience with the above-mentioned solutions and opinions to share? Or should I just keep it simple and have a single server that implements everything required? Thanks... Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 05:36:31 2006 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:36:31 -0500 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20060105053631.GB23535@thecat.localnet> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 10:13:46AM -0500, bob wrote: > QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a > command at each level. They called it "ws". > > Is there an equivalent in Linux? > > I did a quick look through my reference material and couldn't find it, so I > thought I would ask before I set out to write my own. I think that the find will do this for you: find [search criteria] -exec somecommand {} \; Simple working example: find -exec ls -l {} \; will list each file and directory under the current location. As usual 'man find' or equiv. [ It's been a while since I did a "ws" in QNX - long enough that I was booting from 5 1/4 disks! ] Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 05:44:03 2006 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:44:03 -0500 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: <20060105053631.GB23535-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> <20060105053631.GB23535@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <20060105054403.GA23550@thecat.localnet> On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 12:36:31AM -0500, Allen Taylor wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 10:13:46AM -0500, bob wrote: > > QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a > > command at each level. They called it "ws". > > > > Is there an equivalent in Linux? > > I think that the find will do this for you: > find [search criteria] -exec somecommand {} \; > > Simple working example: > find -exec ls -l {} \; > will list each file and directory under the current location. > > As usual 'man find' or equiv. > > [ It's been a while since I did a "ws" in QNX - long enough that I was > booting from 5 1/4 disks! ] Of course I answered before noticing that two others had already answered with better comments than mine! Then on top of it, I left out the "-type d" *and* documented correctly as processing "each file and directory" when the request was to process directories only. I'm going to bed early tonight - obviously the brain has already shut down! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 13:21:33 2006 From: adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org (Adam Tworkowski) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:21:33 -0500 Subject: UML vs. vserver vs. xen In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BD1D5D.3080209@tworkowski.com> Hey Dan, I attempted something like this with xen several months ago on Sarge. My plan was to use a xen host which did nothing but act as a controller. The guests were a firewall, fileserver (private) and mail/web server (dmz). I would have to dig up my specs but LVM2 was also involved. The guests seemed pretty heavily taxed (w/o any services running). Typing had visible lag in the guest ttys. My major gripe was the complexity with the networking which involved a mess of virtaul ether devices (dummy, bridged) to basically create a "switch". I did manage to get it working (correctly) but when I went to move from drive set (raid1) from the temporary hardware to the final hardware, I faced some issues. If I remember correctly the issues involved raid and lvm2 and were not specifically Xen. Because of this issue (which I could have recovered from) and with the relative "slowness" of the virtual servers, and the complexity of the network, made me question whether I really wanted to have my "important" data mail, photos, personal files, etc. host an a system that seemed to have so many possible points of failure. I decided to shelve the project (temporarily) due to the performance hit and relative complexity in recovering from an issue. Adam Daniel Armstrong wrote: >I am looking to setup a box (Athlon XP +1800, 512MB RAM) as a home >server, using Apache to host 1 or 2 websites, a MySQL database, email >(Postfix or Exim), maybe learn more about DNS caching. Is anybody out >there doing something similar implemented in 'virtual machines' using >UML or vserver or xen? > >My original intention was to go with a minimal Debian 'stable' >install, and add the necessary services one-by-one, but I am intrigued >by some of the virtualization solutions available. It may be more work >to setup UML or vserver or xen in the beginning, but it appears to >offer greater flexibility to manage services and possibly greater >security?? > >What I want to do: > >- make use of a single server (Athlon XP +1800, 512MB RAM) >- use debian 'stable' as the base install >- use same version of debian for all the 'virtual' machines as well >- a single admin (me) >- no X server required > >Right now I am leaning towards the vserver option, as this way all the >virtual machines make use of the single underlying kernel and I would >think this makes a lighter demand on this older hardware as opposed to >UML or xen, where every virtual machine has its own kernel. The >trade-off is in robustness - if something goes wrong with your kernel, >all your virtual machines are hosed. > >Anybody have any experience with the above-mentioned solutions and >opinions to share? Or should I just keep it simple and have a single >server that implements everything required? > >Thanks... Daniel >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 13:21:56 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:21:56 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060104222348.GS26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B71A08.15608.1045903D@localhost> Message-ID: <43BCD724.20047.2DF1342@localhost> I understood that it is taught for none of those reasons. Besides what I mentioned, Java has objects but no pointers (in a U of T course I tutored, they had a clever way of faking it, though). The high school curriculum teaches OOP, but pointers are not a required part of the curriculum. Paul King On 4 Jan 2006 at 17:23, Lennart Sorensen (Lennart Sorensen ) spaketh these wourdes: > On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 11:53:44PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > > This is why I wouldn't teach Python, because the scoping would not be obvious > > enough. I wouldn't teach C/C++, because it is too loosely-typed. Java is a little > > better, and is also taught alternatively with ActionScript, because its typing > > and scoping rules are more sensible. I would personally favour Java. > > One of these days the java fad will end, people will stop going by > buzzwords, and we will all be rid of the classpath hell, and run > everywhere code that never does. Really. :) Or so I wish. I can > dream, can't I? > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1352 (20060104) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 13:54:35 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:54:35 -0500 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: <20060105053631.GB23535-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> <20060105053631.GB23535@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <20060105135542.F05AAB478A@outbox.allstream.net> Thanks guys. I also found a C library function called ftw (file tree walk) which does much the same thing. bob On January 5, 2006 12:36 am, you wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 10:13:46AM -0500, bob wrote: > > QNX had a command which would walk down a directory structure executing a > > command at each level. They called it "ws". > > > > Is there an equivalent in Linux? > > > > I did a quick look through my reference material and couldn't find it, > > so I thought I would ask before I set out to write my own. > > I think that the find will do this for you: > find [search criteria] -exec somecommand {} \; > > Simple working example: > find -exec ls -l {} \; > will list each file and directory under the current location. > > As usual 'man find' or equiv. > > [ It's been a while since I did a "ws" in QNX - long enough that I was > booting from 5 1/4 disks! ] > > Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 14:08:49 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:08:49 -0500 Subject: UML vs. vserver vs. xen In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BD2871.5050104@georgetown.wehave.net> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > What I want to do: > > - make use of a single server (Athlon XP +1800, 512MB RAM) > - use debian 'stable' as the base install > - use same version of debian for all the 'virtual' machines as well > - a single admin (me) > - no X server required > > Right now I am leaning towards the vserver option, as this way all the > virtual machines make use of the single underlying kernel and I would > think this makes a lighter demand on this older hardware as opposed to > UML or xen, where every virtual machine has its own kernel. The > trade-off is in robustness - if something goes wrong with your kernel, > all your virtual machines are hosed. > > Anybody have any experience with the above-mentioned solutions and > opinions to share? Or should I just keep it simple and have a single > server that implements everything required? If you want to do this as a learning exercise then I think it's definitely worthwhile. Virtualization is a huge trend and knowing it inside and out will be very beneficial for you if you work in IT. Practically speaking I don't see a big advantage to any virtualization at home if you're going to run the same OS in each VM. Where I expect I will use it at home is to run Debian + Ubuntu + SLES + RHEL + ? Dual, triple, quad booting is a PITA, Xen makes it a little more manageable without much overhead. My opinion is that UML is a nice technology but it is likely to lose favour now that Xen is available. Vservers is a different approach to virtualization also a neat technology. Down the road I wouldn't be surprised if a combination of Xen + vservers might even come into play. Another solution similar to vservers is OpenVZ from SW Soft. The "open" part is a very recent development though their commercial product (Virtuozzo) has been around for a long time. I haven't seen the issues that Adam mentioned with Xen. I have done a lot of benchmarking between Xen Linux, native Linux and Linux on VMWare ESX. Xen Linux performance is very good, close to native as advertised. My benchmarking has only gone up to 4 VMs so far but the degradation in peformance was not significant and definitely not noticeable to the point where the console slowed down. My initial benchmarking was on 2 way servers with 4GB RAM, we're just starting to look at 4 way servers with 8GB of RAM as of today ;-) If you haven't tried the Xen Demo CD you should take a look, worked like a charm on my laptop ... 3 operating systems running with full graphical desktop (via VNC) and flawless networking in 512 MB of RAM from a live CD. My $0.02! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 14:09:53 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:09:53 -0500 Subject: Instructions for LVM? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601041919u44cef9d0tac5451b7d3dd171e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060103182804.GR26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104213936.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060104223252.GT26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601041919u44cef9d0tac5451b7d3dd171e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060105140952.GV26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 09:19:47PM -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/4/06, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > > > The new cable that they make have a short distance between the > > master and slave heads, not long enough for my devices. The older and > > longer cables don't seem to work with the new HDDs. > > New and long cables do exist, and are annoyingly expensive.. if that's > an option. Any IDE cable over 18" is out of spec I believe. Certainly for UDMA66 or higher it isn't allowed. SATA allows 1m cables. If you are buying new drives, don't bother with IDE anymore. It isn't worth it. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 14:15:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:15:12 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <20060104221741.GP26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060105141512.GW26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 02:07:07AM +0200, Peter wrote: > I do not understand why Prolog is considered 'painful'. I am no Prolog > expert but so far it works fine whenever I need to use it. All the > structured programming constructs can be simulated in Prolog but almost > nothing that Prolog can do can be duplicated (easily) with something > else. I find a lot of that simulating stuff to be much to painful and weird. prolog has some very neat uses, but I would not consider it for anything outside those uses. Having just seen the nightmare of idiotic questions my wife's last course at york was like (it was a CS course using lisp and prolog), there really are things you should not attempt in prolog, even though they can be done. Why a CS course would have such assignments is beyond my imagination. Maybe the professors hate CS students. Maybe they just don't have a clue. Hopefully neither. To me if you do a course on prolog and lisp, having questions that show the strengths of the languages would make much more sense than trying to do symbolic computation problems in lots of weird ways with them. It may not have been too bad in lisp, but the prolog stuff sure looked nuts. I don't know how my wife managed to make most of those things work, but she did, it just took 20 to 30 hours of work a week to do it. I generally wouldn't try to do lots of text processing in C either, because perl makes that much simpler. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 14:24:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:24:09 -0500 Subject: Well, now we know who to blame In-Reply-To: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060105142409.GX26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 06:18:25PM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >From the CES program: > ---------------------------------------------------- > EVENTS > > Pre-show Keynote Address > Bill Gates, Chairman and Chief Software Architect, Microsoft Corp. > 6:30 p.m. Wednesday, January 4, Las Vegas Hilton > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Bill, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Windows *has* an architecture. Or maybe Bill is just not very good at that job. :) It's all Bill's fault. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 17:33:30 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:33:30 -0500 Subject: UML vs. vserver vs. xen In-Reply-To: <43BD2871.5050104-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e@mail.gmail.com> <43BD2871.5050104@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10601050933u3dc1fa41gd6cdc344315cbb34@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Vservers is a different approach to virtualization also a neat > technology. Down the road I wouldn't be surprised if a combination of > Xen + vservers might even come into play. Another solution similar to > vservers is OpenVZ from SW Soft. The "open" part is a very recent > development though their commercial product (Virtuozzo) has been around > for a long time. > > I haven't seen the issues that Adam mentioned with Xen. I have done a > lot of benchmarking between Xen Linux, native Linux and Linux on VMWare > ESX. Xen Linux performance is very good, close to native as advertised. > My benchmarking has only gone up to 4 VMs so far but the degradation > in peformance was not significant and definitely not noticeable to the > point where the console slowed down. My initial benchmarking was on 2 > way servers with 4GB RAM, we're just starting to look at 4 way servers > with 8GB of RAM as of today ;-) > > If you haven't tried the Xen Demo CD you should take a look, worked like > a charm on my laptop ... 3 operating systems running with full graphical > desktop (via VNC) and flawless networking in 512 MB of RAM from a live CD. Thank-you Adam and Fraser for the feedback. The Xen + vserver combination is an interesting idea - right now I am downloading the torrent of that Xen Demo CD you mention, and will give it a go. 8GB of RAM. Wow! Sweet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 19:49:13 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:49:13 +0200 (IST) Subject: opinions on a software package ? Message-ID: Hello, I am organizing a lot of images on my computer and I am looking for software. I wrote my own scripts but I also contemplated: http://furius.ca/curator/ opinions ? tia, Peter PS: I want a static site that uses no php or database when rendered for now -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 20:02:08 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Imran .) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 20:02:08 +0000 Subject: RHCE Message-ID: Hello everybody, I am starting to prepare for RHCE exam. If anybody has passed this exam recently please give some advice about how to prepare. Any good study materials, books, resources etc. Thank you ever so much, Imran. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 20:42:41 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:42:41 -0500 Subject: New to Linux In-Reply-To: <43BCA471.205-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <43BCA471.205@interlog.com> Message-ID: <000c01c61238$9307ac60$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:46 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: New to Linux Joseph wrote: > I am new to Linux but I have been working with windows for about 10 years. > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on the best place to start. > There are some many versions of Linux, which one would you recommend? > Also how about websites and books. You have already had most of the suggestions made that I was going to make except for one. You may find TUX magazine (http://www.tuxmagazine.com/) of interest. It is an electronic magazine available for free via the net. It bills itself as "The first and only magazine for the new linux user". Back issues are also available online. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 21:19:50 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:19:50 -0500 Subject: OT: firefox question Message-ID: Here's the SQOTD (Stupid Question Of The Day): :-) What is the difference between "firefox" and "mozilla-firefox" packages?? Ubuntu and Debian have both packages... The "mozilla-firefox" seems to be the preferred, but why does the other exist? -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 21:45:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:45:12 -0500 Subject: OT: firefox question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060105214512.GY26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 04:19:50PM -0500, Steve wrote: > Here's the SQOTD (Stupid Question Of The Day): :-) > > What is the difference between "firefox" and "mozilla-firefox" packages?? > > Ubuntu and Debian have both packages... The "mozilla-firefox" seems to > be the preferred, but why does the other exist? As of right now, I see this: Package: firefox Version: 1.5.dfsg-3 Replaces: mozilla-firefox Package: mozilla-firefox Version: 1.5.dfsg-3 Depends: firefox Description: Transition package for firefox rename Package to ease upgrading from older mozilla-firefox packages to the new firefox package. . This package can be purged at anytime once the firefox package has been installed. So firefox replaces mozilla-firefox, and mozilla-firefox is now a dummy package depending on the new package name. This is how debian transitions when they rename a package. I guess people were confused that 'apt-get install firefox' didn't work, but 'apt-get install mozilla-firefox' did. Try installing either one. If you install firefox, you get firefox and nothing else. If you install mozilla-firefox, you get both packages, and you can remove mozilla-firefox later if you want since it has no purpose anymore other than to transition people to the new package. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 5 22:47:47 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:47:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: | From: G. Matthew Rice | find -type d (maybe -depth) | | and then pipe that to xargs(1) or use the -exec option with find. I usually | prefer xargs(1). Especially if there are a lot of matches. xargs is very useful. Too bad there isn't an xargs built into find. It would have the advantage of being more concise and it would avoid the following problem. xargs has a weakness: in-band signalling. The characters used to separate file names in the output are perfectly legal within filenames. xargs actually makes this worse because it allows more characters to separate filenames than find actually uses. Where does this come up? For example, when filenames have whitespace in them. Historically, this has been rare in UNIX filenames because it makes dealing with them in the shell a bit awkward. But MS Windows users often put spaces in because space is just an ordinary character in a GUI. So files originating on MS Windows make this problem more common in UNIX. I got two such files today in (non SPAM) email. To compensate, Gnu versions of find(1) and xargs(1) have -print0 and --null flags. -print0 tells find(1) to terminate each filename with a NUL character (not legal in a file name) instead of a NewLine (which is legal). --null tells xargs to take each character in a filename as-is and to accept NUL as the end of a name. It is a good idea to use these features. I also think that xargs' --no-run-if-empty flag ought to be the default. I bet that a number of scripts have bugs because they don't use this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 00:12:17 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:12:17 -0500 Subject: Rogers connection problems Message-ID: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> Since Boxing Day, I've been having connection problems with Rogers' high speed internet -- I keep losing the connection. Sometimes it re-establishes itself only to almost immediately fail within a few minutes or in what seems to be a random pattern, it will stay connected for hours at a time. I can also temporarily re-establish a connection by removing the cable connection from the modem, waiting a minute or two, and then re-attaching the cable -- this usually gives me enough time to download email or send any that I have prepared in advance (like this one :P). Am I right in thinking that the modem, a Motorola Surfboard SB5100 is likely kaput and needs to be replaced? Is there another possible cause that I should have the Rogers tech (coming on Sat.) investigate? Are there any other Rogers customers in the Bayview/Eglinton area on the list that have been having similar problems? TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 00:25:38 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:25:38 -0500 Subject: opinions on a software package ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060105192538.542590b0.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:49:13 +0200 (IST) Peter wrote: > > Hello, > > I am organizing a lot of images on my computer and I am looking for > software. I wrote my own scripts but I also contemplated: > > http://furius.ca/curator/ > > opinions ? Peter, I store my photos in a directory named by the date and the purpose of the serious of photographs. When my hard drive gets too full, I burn my photo directories to CDROM, then I delete them. I take my CDROM and I go... $ ls -lR /media/cdrecorder > JHGphotos-20060105 I write "JHGphotos-20060105" on the CDROM. I use grep to search the database. $ grep -ri "Grey Cup" . This gives me the CDROM and the date, as well as the directory I stored them in. Needless to day, I buy top quality CDROMs for this, and I store them out of the light. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 00:32:15 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:32:15 -0500 Subject: Rogers connection problems In-Reply-To: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> References: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <002701c61258$a504e020$81fbc645@unipc> John, I had a similar problem with the RCA cable modem. I also thought that it was the cable connection but it turned out to be the power adapter connection that was intermittent. I brought it back to the Rogers store and I was given a new webstar by scientific-Atlantic. Joseph -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John McGregor Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:12 PM To: tlug Subject: [TLUG]: Rogers connection problems Since Boxing Day, I've been having connection problems with Rogers' high speed internet -- I keep losing the connection. Sometimes it re-establishes itself only to almost immediately fail within a few minutes or in what seems to be a random pattern, it will stay connected for hours at a time. I can also temporarily re-establish a connection by removing the cable connection from the modem, waiting a minute or two, and then re-attaching the cable -- this usually gives me enough time to download email or send any that I have prepared in advance (like this one :P). Am I right in thinking that the modem, a Motorola Surfboard SB5100 is likely kaput and needs to be replaced? Is there another possible cause that I should have the Rogers tech (coming on Sat.) investigate? Are there any other Rogers customers in the Bayview/Eglinton area on the list that have been having similar problems? TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 01:09:23 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 01:09:23 +0000 Subject: UML vs. vserver vs. xen In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10601050933u3dc1fa41gd6cdc344315cbb34-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10601042114o200a9af0u447b591b3382226e@mail.gmail.com> <43BD2871.5050104@georgetown.wehave.net> <61e9e2b10601050933u3dc1fa41gd6cdc344315cbb34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10601051709u2aac09bapfabcb917335b0a55@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 1/5/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > If you haven't tried the Xen Demo CD you should take a look, worked like > > a charm on my laptop ... 3 operating systems running with full graphical > > desktop (via VNC) and flawless networking in 512 MB of RAM from a live CD. > > Thank-you Adam and Fraser for the feedback. The Xen + vserver > combination is an interesting idea - right now I am downloading the > torrent of that Xen Demo CD you mention, and will give it a go. > That Xen 3.0 Demo CD is great - I am running it on a Sempron 2500+ with 1GB RAM, and have 5 guest OSes running with no noticable slowdown. I have Firefox opened into Gmail on one of the guests, and am posting from there. Definitely worth further exploration, methinks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 01:35:12 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:35:12 -0500 Subject: opinions on a software package ? In-Reply-To: <20060105192538.542590b0.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060105192538.542590b0.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: There's a script that does about what you want called "album" http://marginalhacks.com/Hacks/album/ -Joseph- On 1/5/06, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:49:13 +0200 (IST) > Peter wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > I am organizing a lot of images on my computer and I am looking for > > software. I wrote my own scripts but I also contemplated: > > > > http://furius.ca/curator/ > > > > opinions ? > > Peter, > > I store my photos in a directory named by the date and the purpose of the serious of photographs. When my hard drive gets too full, I burn my photo directories to CDROM, then I delete them. > > I take my CDROM and I go... > > $ ls -lR /media/cdrecorder > JHGphotos-20060105 > > I write "JHGphotos-20060105" on the CDROM. I use grep to search the database. > > $ grep -ri "Grey Cup" . > > This gives me the CDROM and the date, as well as the directory I stored them in. Needless to day, I buy top quality CDROMs for this, and I store them out of the light. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 01:45:16 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:45:16 -0500 Subject: RHCE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > I am starting to prepare for RHCE exam. If anybody has passed this exam > recently please give some advice about how to prepare. Any good study > materials, books, resources etc. > The RHCE is a practical exam, that is, you are tested on a live Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 machine. It attempts to be a more "real world" test of your Linux skill than a mere multiple choice test. I used to teach the RH courses, and these are the things I told my students in preparation for RHCE: 1. Get a practice machine at home, and start using it daily. The more experience you have with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 the better. If you can't get your hands on a copy of RHEL4, the next best thing is Fedora Core 3. Install it, and configure the various services outlined in the RHCE Study Guide 2. Check out https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/examprep.html. It discusses the things you'll have to know to take the exam. 3. If you have the dollars, or have an employer willing to pay, I highly recommend taking the RH300 course from Red Hat. It's a 4 day prep course with the exam on the Friday. The material is invaluable in preparing for the exam. Good luck! pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 01:51:16 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:51:16 -0500 Subject: OT: firefox question In-Reply-To: <20060105214512.GY26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060105214512.GY26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/5/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Package: firefox > Version: 1.5.dfsg-3 > Replaces: mozilla-firefox > > Package: mozilla-firefox > Version: 1.5.dfsg-3 > Depends: firefox > Description: Transition package for firefox rename > Package to ease upgrading from older mozilla-firefox packages to the > new firefox package. > . > This package can be purged at anytime once the firefox package has > been installed. > > So firefox replaces mozilla-firefox, and mozilla-firefox is now a dummy > package depending on the new package name. This is how debian > transitions when they rename a package. I guess people were confused > that 'apt-get install firefox' didn't work, but 'apt-get install > mozilla-firefox' did. > > Try installing either one. If you install firefox, you get firefox and > nothing else. If you install mozilla-firefox, you get both packages, > and you can remove mozilla-firefox later if you want since it has no > purpose anymore other than to transition people to the new package. > > Len Sorensen Thanks. It makes more sense now! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 01:55:33 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Imran .) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 01:55:33 +0000 Subject: RHCE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks a lot Paul for valuable suggestions. Thanks indeed. Imran. >From: Paul Mora >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RHCE >Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:45:16 -0500 > >On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > I am starting to prepare for RHCE exam. If anybody has passed this exam > > recently please give some advice about how to prepare. Any good study > > materials, books, resources etc. > > > >The RHCE is a practical exam, that is, you are tested on a live Red Hat >Enterprise Linux 4 machine. It attempts to be a more "real world" test of >your Linux skill than a mere multiple choice test. > >I used to teach the RH courses, and these are the things I told my students >in preparation for RHCE: > >1. Get a practice machine at home, and start using it daily. The more >experience you have with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 the better. If you >can't get your hands on a copy of RHEL4, the next best thing is Fedora Core >3. Install it, and configure the various services outlined in the RHCE >Study Guide > >2. Check out https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/examprep.html. It >discusses the things you'll have to know to take the exam. > >3. If you have the dollars, or have an employer willing to pay, I highly >recommend taking the RH300 course from Red Hat. It's a 4 day prep course >with the exam on the Friday. The material is invaluable in preparing for >the exam. > >Good luck! > >pm > >-- >Paul Mora >email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:27:45 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:27:45 -0500 Subject: Rogers connection problems In-Reply-To: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> References: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <43BDE3B1.2070601@rogers.com> > Since Boxing Day, I've been having connection problems with Rogers' high > speed internet -- I keep losing the connection. Sometimes it > re-establishes itself only to almost immediately fail within a few > minutes or in what seems to be a random pattern, it will stay connected > for hours at a time. I can also temporarily re-establish a connection by > removing the cable connection from the modem, waiting a minute or two, > and then re-attaching the cable -- this usually gives me enough time to > download email or send any that I have prepared in advance (like this > one :P). Am I right in thinking that the modem, a Motorola Surfboard > SB5100 is likely kaput and needs to be replaced? Is there another > possible cause that I should have the Rogers tech (coming on Sat.) > investigate? Are there any other Rogers customers in the > Bayview/Eglinton area on the list that have been having similar > problems? Sorry for the huge top quote, too lazy to edit ;) I'm on rogers at Bathurst & Eglinton, near the big synagogues. 72.136.154.x, if that helps. Things seem fine. I stream music pretty much constantly and have had no interruptions. Others: terayon modem (dark blue, stands on it's edge, 4 leds, etc.). Say what you want about the life of a guy who happens to monitor his house power from his computer, but that's fine too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:31:14 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:31:14 +0800 Subject: multihomed box In-Reply-To: <43BBBAC9.90300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <43BBBAC9.90300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200601061131.14510.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Wednesday 04 January 2006 8:08 pm, James Knott wrote: > JM wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a linux with 1 NIC card with 5 IPs > > > > eth0, eth0:0, etc.. > > > > a client gave us an API that connects to a server w/c uses eth0's IP. > > Im wondering if I can use eth0:0's IP when it connects to the server... > > If the server is configured for muliple IPs, it should respond no matter > what address is used. they have a firewall and we only want to publish the eth0:0's IP, running the API they gave us ( the API will be used to connect to their server ) uses eth0's IP, is there a way to tell linux to use eth0:0 when ever we want to connect to a specific IP? tia, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:35:51 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:35:51 +0800 Subject: multihomed box In-Reply-To: <20060104221010.GN26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20060104221010.GN26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200601061135.51171.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Thursday 05 January 2006 6:10 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 05:09:45PM +0800, JM wrote: > > I have a linux with 1 NIC card with 5 IPs > > > > eth0, eth0:0, etc.. > > > > a client gave us an API that connects to a server w/c uses eth0's IP. > > Im wondering if I can use eth0:0's IP when it connects to the server... > > Outgoing traffic uses the default IP set for the route used to go out. > You can change that if you want with iproute2 (ip blah blah command). > > More fancy stuff can be done with iproute2 and using iptables to mark > certain packets to control the ip and route based on packet marking. > > It is also possible for an application to bind to an IP or specify which > IP to use when sending. Most don't and hence get whatever the system > default is. since the API's source is not available... ill try iproute2 .. thanks, > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:53:18 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:53:18 -0500 Subject: RHCE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Imran, I also intend to take RHEC next month. You can get any book out there (I have read a couple of *nix related text), but I think its late to do that now if you intend to take the exam this Feb. The way I am going about it is I have Fedora 4 on my laptop. I visited the link Paul sent you and listed all the topic on my note book. Since I have used Linux for some times, I was able to tick off a substantial number of topics. Then the topics I am not comfortable with, I read and practice a topic a day or two. Here is my primary reading guide. http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/index.html What you find not well covered there, google a bit. Don't get too crazy though. That is the problem I am having. I tend to be too bookish and read like mad. Unfortunately, this is a practical exam so I have to make bash my friend. If you want, we can work at it together once in a while. That is one way of ensuring we don't have holes. The exam is very expensive and I would hate to fail. Have you been on Linux for long? William On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > Thanks a lot Paul for valuable suggestions. Thanks indeed. > > Imran. > > >From: Paul Mora > >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RHCE > >Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:45:16 -0500 > > > >On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > I am starting to prepare for RHCE exam. If anybody has passed this exam > > > recently please give some advice about how to prepare. Any good study > > > materials, books, resources etc. > > > > > > >The RHCE is a practical exam, that is, you are tested on a live Red Hat > >Enterprise Linux 4 machine. It attempts to be a more "real world" test of > >your Linux skill than a mere multiple choice test. > > > >I used to teach the RH courses, and these are the things I told my students > >in preparation for RHCE: > > > >1. Get a practice machine at home, and start using it daily. The more > >experience you have with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 the better. If you > >can't get your hands on a copy of RHEL4, the next best thing is Fedora Core > >3. Install it, and configure the various services outlined in the RHCE > >Study Guide > > > >2. Check out https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/examprep.html. It > >discusses the things you'll have to know to take the exam. > > > >3. If you have the dollars, or have an employer willing to pay, I highly > >recommend taking the RH300 course from Red Hat. It's a 4 day prep course > >with the exam on the Friday. The material is invaluable in preparing for > >the exam. > > > >Good luck! > > > >pm > > > >-- > >Paul Mora > >email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:53:46 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:53:46 -0500 Subject: RHCE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BDE9CA.3010508@georgetown.wehave.net> Paul Mora wrote: > 1. Get a practice machine at home, and start using it daily. The more > experience you have with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 the better. If you > can't get your hands on a copy of RHEL4, the next best thing is Fedora > Core 3. Install it, and configure the various services outlined in the > RHCE Study Guide I would imagine Centos 4 would be even closer (http://www.centos.org/). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 03:58:58 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:58:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's ws (walk directory structure) command? In-Reply-To: References: <20060104151148.E5646B47FC@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: G. Matthew Rice > > | find -type d (maybe -depth) > | > | and then pipe that to xargs(1) or use the -exec option with find. I usually > | prefer xargs(1). Especially if there are a lot of matches. > > xargs is very useful. Too bad there isn't an xargs built into find. > It would have the advantage of being more concise and it would avoid > the following problem. The POSIX specification for find (which is implemented in the most recent GNU version) can use + instead of \; to terminate an -exec command. When terminated by +, -exec builds as long a command line as possible, just as xargs does. This makes xargs obsolete. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 04:50:05 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:50:05 -0500 Subject: Rogers connection problems In-Reply-To: <43BDE3B1.2070601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> <43BDE3B1.2070601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43BDF6FD.7050603@rogers.com> Hey, Could someone tell me if my last message wrapped at 72 columns? I swear I have it set (just checked) but it's coming across unwrapped in Thunderbird, and it's got those stupid blue bars instead of '>' quoting again... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 05:29:56 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 00:29:56 -0500 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end Message-ID: <20060106052956.GA27361@waltdnes.org> At least the "Home Edition", which is what most home machines use. No, I'm not joking. See Microsoft's webpage at... http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3221 "Business products" get longer support; Microsoft may play dirty, but they're not insane. This is a perfect opportunity for us to throw a lot FUD back at Microsoft, and advance linux. If nothing else, there'll be a lot of great deals on almost-new, barely-used computers that won't be powerful enough to run Vista, but which will be perfect for linux. We could work in an "environmentally-friendly" angle. "Don't replace your hardware, replace your software". Maybe we could even qualify for a government grant... aaaarrrrgggghhhh, what am I saying. I wouldn't be too surprised if Microsoft backed off for a year or so, like they did with Win98SE. But that'll simply make them look less trustworthy to the public. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 08:47:26 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 03:47:26 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? Message-ID: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> Hi all, I'm helping to put together the revamped, Drupal-based CLUE website, now online at www.linux.ca One of the things we're looking to do is collect news from the various Canadian LUGs. The easiest way for us to do this is to get an RSS feed from as many sites as possible. Right now the only LUG from which we have an RSS feed is Calgary, and I'm working on others. Is there any existing feed available from the GTALUG site? Any being planned? Thanks for any help. I'm just trying to help the national community know what each other is doing... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 10:27:53 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Imran .) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:27:53 +0000 Subject: RHCE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks William for detailed reply. I am not taking test next month. I am planning to take test in May. I went through the link that Paul sent and I think right now my skill level is of RHCT. So I have to think very carefully before spending big $$$ on RCHE. I'll work on it until April and then decide. Regards, Imran. >From: Kihara Muriithi >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RHCE >Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:53:18 -0500 > >Hi Imran, > I also intend to take RHEC next month. You can get any book out there >(I have read a couple of *nix related text), but I think its late to >do that now if you intend to take the exam this Feb. > The way I am going about it is I have Fedora 4 on my laptop. I >visited the link Paul sent you and listed all the topic on my note >book. Since I have used Linux for some times, I was able to tick off a >substantial number of topics. > Then the topics I am not comfortable with, I read and practice a >topic a day or two. Here is my primary reading guide. >http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/index.html >What you find not well covered there, google a bit. Don't get too >crazy though. That is the problem I am having. I tend to be too >bookish and read like mad. Unfortunately, this is a practical exam so >I have to make bash my friend. > If you want, we can work at it together once in a while. That is one >way of ensuring we don't have holes. The exam is very expensive and I >would hate to fail. > Have you been on Linux for long? >William > >On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > > > Thanks a lot Paul for valuable suggestions. Thanks indeed. > > > > Imran. > > > > >From: Paul Mora > > >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RHCE > > >Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:45:16 -0500 > > > > > >On 1/5/06, Imran . wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > I am starting to prepare for RHCE exam. If anybody has passed this >exam > > > > recently please give some advice about how to prepare. Any good >study > > > > materials, books, resources etc. > > > > > > > > > >The RHCE is a practical exam, that is, you are tested on a live Red Hat > > >Enterprise Linux 4 machine. It attempts to be a more "real world" test >of > > >your Linux skill than a mere multiple choice test. > > > > > >I used to teach the RH courses, and these are the things I told my >students > > >in preparation for RHCE: > > > > > >1. Get a practice machine at home, and start using it daily. The more > > >experience you have with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 the better. If you > > >can't get your hands on a copy of RHEL4, the next best thing is Fedora >Core > > >3. Install it, and configure the various services outlined in the RHCE > > >Study Guide > > > > > >2. Check out https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/examprep.html. It > > >discusses the things you'll have to know to take the exam. > > > > > >3. If you have the dollars, or have an employer willing to pay, I >highly > > >recommend taking the RH300 course from Red Hat. It's a 4 day prep >course > > >with the exam on the Friday. The material is invaluable in preparing >for > > >the exam. > > > > > >Good luck! > > > > > >pm > > > > > >-- > > >Paul Mora > > >email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 14:08:44 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:08:44 -0500 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end In-Reply-To: <20060106052956.GA27361-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106052956.GA27361@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 1/6/06, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > This is a perfect opportunity for us to throw a lot FUD back at > Microsoft, and advance linux. If nothing else, there'll be a lot of > great deals on almost-new, barely-used computers that won't be powerful > enough to run Vista, but which will be perfect for linux. We could work > in an "environmentally-friendly" angle. "Don't replace your hardware, > replace your software". Maybe we could even qualify for a government > grant... aaaarrrrgggghhhh, what am I saying. Thanks for that tip... I agree it is yet another reason to give to people... as long as you have a linux live cd to hand them at the time! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 14:12:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:12:18 -0500 Subject: multihomed box In-Reply-To: <200601061131.14510.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601041709.45483.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <43BBBAC9.90300@rogers.com> <200601061131.14510.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20060106141218.GZ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 11:31:14AM +0800, JM wrote: > they have a firewall and we only want to publish the eth0:0's IP, running the > API they gave us ( the API will be used to connect to their server ) uses > eth0's IP, is there a way to tell linux to use eth0:0 when ever we want to > connect to a specific IP? The simple solution is to assign the IP you actually want to use to eth0, and move eth0's ip to eth0:0 instead. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 14:21:33 2006 From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:21:33 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <20060103155721.GO26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43BE7CED.7080907@gmail.com> Len - Thx for the tips. Of course rh8 is long in the tooth, but what do they say: so many distros, so little time? Thx regardless, will let you know how I make out. -Peter Lennart Sorensen wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TLUG]: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:57:21 -0500 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 09:59:38AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > > >>Installed a new motherboard in my pc, an ASRock M810LMR. Everything is >>fine, except for the video. There doesn't seem to be a linux display >>driver for the chip-integrated video. Does anyone know of one/where I >>can find one? Apparently the motherboard has "chip-integrated >>ProSavage4 graphics". >> >>I'm running rh8. Thx very much. >> >> > >Try something MUCH newer than that old junk. There should be a driver >if you have xfree86 4.x or newer called savage. > >Don't run distributions that are older than your hardware. > >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 13:31:37 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:31:37 -0500 Subject: ActionScript as a teaching language In-Reply-To: <20060104221643.GO26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B3B5A5.110.3056FE7@localhost> <20051229183730.GA2584@node1.opengeometry.net> <43B685BF.70903@sympatico.ca> <20060104221643.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43BE7139.2030005@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Strongly typed languages help avoid many bugs since the > compiler just won't accept the code in most cases if it isn't right. But negative reinforcement isn't a great way to learn. Strong typing maybe be a boon for the production programmer, but for everyone else, it gets in the way. > Did you just use perl and obvious in the same sentence? Yeah, I did -- but I did say that its syntax could be odious. But what is obvious about Perl's use of structures is that you can add members at random places at any time, without having to worry about memory allocation and other low-level details. I guess I never was cut out to be a computer scientist or kernel hacker, but I get the things done I need to get done. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 15:05:49 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:05:49 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <43BE2E9E.2060004-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>; from evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 03:47:26AM -0500 References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> I don't know if an RSS feed can be created using mediawiki. Sy might be able to answer that better than anyone else though. Bill On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 03:47:26AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm helping to put together the revamped, Drupal-based CLUE website, now > online at www.linux.ca > > One of the things we're looking to do is collect news from the various > Canadian LUGs. The easiest way for us to do this is to get an RSS feed > from as many sites as possible. > > Right now the only LUG from which we have an RSS feed is Calgary, and > I'm working on others. Is there any existing feed available from the > GTALUG site? Any being planned? > > Thanks for any help. I'm just trying to help the national community know > what each other is doing... > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 15:21:40 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:21:40 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <20060106100549.A30013-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I don't know if an RSS feed can be created using mediawiki. Sy might be able to answer that better than anyone else though. > > Bill On mediawiki, I think it is turned on by default. You can check here to see that it is supported: http://gtalug.org/index.php/Special:Recentchanges?feed=rss Since mediawiki supports rss by default, it just becomes a matter of customizing the feed according to whatever content is needed. Jamon > On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 03:47:26AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm helping to put together the revamped, Drupal-based CLUE website, now >> online at www.linux.ca >> >> One of the things we're looking to do is collect news from the various >> Canadian LUGs. The easiest way for us to do this is to get an RSS feed >> from as many sites as possible. >> >> Right now the only LUG from which we have an RSS feed is Calgary, and >> I'm working on others. Is there any existing feed available from the >> GTALUG site? Any being planned? >> >> Thanks for any help. I'm just trying to help the national community know >> what each other is doing... >> >> - Evan >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 15:39:40 2006 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:39:40 -0500 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end In-Reply-To: <20060106052956.GA27361-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106052956.GA27361@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2006, at 12:29 AM, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I wouldn't be too surprised if Microsoft backed off for a year or so, > like they did with Win98SE. But that'll simply make them look less > trustworthy to the public. I haven't been following the Vista thing much. If they don't change that expiry, what would be the expected update window for affected users...about 3.5 weeks? (I *have* seen other reports that XP support will extend two years beyond *whatever* date Vista is released.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 15:56:54 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: KWLUG Meeting: 09 January 2006 Message-ID: <1136563014.16090.24.camel@holden.weait.net> Hi all, This is a quick note to remind you that there is a world of F/LOSS that exists west of the 427. The Kitchener Waterloo Linux user Group will meet on Monday, 09 January 2006 at 7pm. Agenda: Python: The Language of Tomorrrow ... Today! - Presented by Brad Smith. This presentation will offer a brief overview of today's hottest programming language, Python. Brad will Quickly cover the very basics before giving you a tour of several of Python's advanced features--including techniques that would be impossible in languages such as C++. Wireless Router Hacks - Presented by 'Ward River'. This presentation will cover a few non-traditional uses for a wireless router. Ward will show you how ordinary, off-the-shelf devices can be given new meaning through F/LOSS. Members of other LUGs (and the public) are encouraged to come and visit. Site: http://www.kwlug.org/ Directions: http://www.kwlug.org/where.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 16:10:43 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:10:43 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <43BE8B04.5050807-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > On mediawiki, I think it is turned on by default. You can check here > to see that it is supported: > http://gtalug.org/index.php/Special:Recentchanges?feed=rss That's close to what I was looking for. Thanks! > Since mediawiki supports rss by default, it just becomes a matter of > customizing the feed according to whatever content is needed. Yes. What portions of the Wiki do you want to broadcast as news when they're added or changed? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 20:04:46 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:04:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. Message-ID: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am taking a close look at LIRC (Linux Infrared Remote Control) program, which allows you to use a TV remote control to control your Linux based machine, something great for MythTV and/or presentation software such as Kpresenter. My motive in all this is two-fold, it is interesting technology and yes I have an article in mind for what I am doing. Now, one of the things I want to look at is home-brew infrared detectors. The LIRC website offers several neat/simple detector designs, all with one common problem. The big issue is the actual detector chip is a @#$% to find locally. There are several chips that can be used and yes, I have tried all the usual suspects (Active Surplus, Active Components, Sayle, etc.), but I have come up empty handed each time. So, a few questions: - Does anyone know a local source for any of the detectors in the following webpage: http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html - Barring a local source, would anyone be interested in doing a mail order run then splitting the shipping charges? - The circuit shown in http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html is simple (and can be made simpler, there are voltage regulators that don't require the protective diode D1 :-) ). Still, for publication I would want a SIMPLE circuit drawing program. Suggestions? - Likewise, would there be any interest in doing a PC board for the above? This would be done again with a view towards publication. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 21:27:06 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:27:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Computer Charity sale... Message-ID: <20060106212706.16027.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Was asked to forward this on, a computer charity that I am involved with is going to have a series of fundraising sales, with details below... --- Martina Ernst wrote: > Dear Innovation Toronto Patrons; > > Happy New Year. > > We are starting our Tech Sales again. > > When: Every Saturday from 2pm to 5pm. Starting this > Week (January 7th). > Where: 169 Eastern Ave, Toronto > > PRICE LIST FOR PIII WITHOUT MONITOR > > PIII 450 MHZ, 128 MB RAM $80.00 + TAX > > PIII 550 MHZ, 128 MB RAM $85.00 + TAX > > PIII 600 MHZ, 128 MB RAM $90.00 + TAX > > PIII 600 MHZ, 256 MB RAM $105.00 + TAX > > PIII 733 MHZ, 128 MB RAM $115.00 + TAX > > PIII 733 MHZ, 192 MB RAM $125.00 + TAX > > 15" Monitor For Computer $20.00 Extra + TAX > > 17" Monitor For Computer $40.00 Extra + TAX > > Also PII, Printers and other equipment available > > Hope to see you at one of the Sales soon. > > Regards, > > Martina Ernst > for Innovation Toronto > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 21:44:35 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:44:35 -0600 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <43BE9683.80709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > > On mediawiki, I think it is turned on by default. You can check here > > to see that it is supported: > > http://gtalug.org/index.php/Special:Recentchanges?feed=rss > > That's close to what I was looking for. Thanks! > > > Since mediawiki supports rss by default, it just becomes a matter of > > customizing the feed according to whatever content is needed. > > Yes. What portions of the Wiki do you want to broadcast as news when > they're added or changed? I only recently got rss configured in my own client, although I still prefer to visit the recent changes page manually. I'm not sure what pages would be good for announcing changes to. Technically meeting pages would be nice.. but things get updated when they get updated.. semi-randomly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 6 23:41:05 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:41:05 +0000 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> Message-ID: <43BF0011.3040109@quadratic.net> The Mac camp would speak up at this point and say: I have a system that works right but I doin't know how and I don't need to. And that would be ok. I have to admit I take the "pop the hood and take a look" approach, I assume that others do or should do. Which is not right thinking. I assumed that Sy was in sysadmin mode ( as in; he was taking a professional approach the maintaince of a business computer). If on the other hand Sy is just being a user on say, a desktop, then go get a mac :P Several IT guys I know ( Unixy or Windowsy) don't want to fix it went they get home. They want it to just work. They get a mac. I am however a masochist and love to pop the hood. David Joseph Kubik wrote: >David, >All I can think to say is "piss off". >That being said, >Sy's point (weather you like it or not) was valid and on topic. Your >reply was juvenile, useless and rather missed the point. >-Joseph- >On 1/1/06, David C. Chipman wrote: > > >> Hi Sy, >> >> I just have one thing to say: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a crybaby on the list. Sy, if you don't want to figure things out, go back to Windows. It's perfect for you! Later, >> >> -David Chipman >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, committing no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- Ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 01:07:36 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:07:36 -0500 Subject: Well, now we know who to blame In-Reply-To: <20060105142409.GX26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50878.207.188.65.194.1136416705.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060105142409.GX26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43BF1458.2050705@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 06:18:25PM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >From the CES program: >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> EVENTS >> >> Pre-show Keynote Address >> Bill Gates, Chairman and Chief Software Architect, Microsoft Corp. >> 6:30 p.m. Wednesday, January 4, Las Vegas Hilton >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> Bill, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Windows *has* an architecture. > > Or maybe Bill is just not very good at that job. :) It's all Bill's > fault. I thought it was San Andreas fault. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 06:27:10 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 00:27:10 -0600 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43BF0011.3040109-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <43BF0011.3040109@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990601062227m3d45cd26sd05a82a233f675fc@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/06, David Thornton wrote: > The Mac camp would speak up at this point and say: I have a system that > works right but I doin't know how and I don't need to. > I assumed that Sy was in sysadmin mode ( as in; he was taking a > professional approach the maintaince of a business computer). If on the > other hand Sy is just being a user on say, a desktop, then go get a mac :P I had a mac handed to me at work and was able to do anything I wanted with it. I gleefully played with it.. and broke it in horrific ways. I even found a reproducable bug that destroyed data during a copy process. Yes it was reported.. I understand a patch came out just after that report. Presumably it's been fixed. The interface is godawful..* and the experience was just like windows.. everything "sortof worked" out of the box and absolutely every single last thing had to be swapped out for some third party application which "actually worked" (in my opinion, of course). However, there was a lot of glitter and the effort for a of things was clearly visible. The glitter, however, is initially impressive and then becomes offensive and distracting. I hate randomly animated crap.. I hate bubbles and shadows and fades. It came down to.. I felt that most of the OSX defaults were insane and nearly impossible to configure. Now running a well-configured linux distribution.. things are generally configured in a sane way and it's fairly trivial to set things the way I want. For example, KDE's shortcuts are insane to begin (like ctrl-tab) with but are at least configurable to be 99% what I want. As for applications.. under Linux, if it's a nice distribution, it's a matter of using a package manager to use an alternative, and I'm generally happy enough with what's available. Under Windows or the mac.. it's a matter of endlessly scouring the net.. listening to various recommendations and repeatedly trying stuff out. That's much more work.. even when I'm in a playful mood. I did a lot of playing around with software on the mac, and really put an effort into getting used to it.. but it fell down too many times. I had flashbacks of windows 3.1 and 95 and trying endless pieces of software because everything that came with it couldn't quite do what I wanted. Heck, I had to download and install a third-party "blank" screensaver.. how silly is that? * Cannot quickly navigate the menus with pure key combinations, poor file management, cannot manipulate windows quickly with just keystrokes, etc etc. I've got a list somewhere.. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 12:12:15 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:12:15 -0500 Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <20060106200446.87990.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 15:04:46 -0500 References: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060107121215.GA1967@localhost> On Fri Jan 06,2006 03:04:46 PM Colin McGregor wrote: > - Does anyone know a local source for any of the > detectors in the following webpage: > http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html Many VCR's use these modules for their IR receivers, and lots of broken VCR's are being thown out every day. If you're slightly handy with tools and a soldering iron, then this is one cheap source for them. As a bonus, there is usually a working, matched remote control available to go with the recovered module. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 15:27:10 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 10:27:10 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601062227m3d45cd26sd05a82a233f675fc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <43BF0011.3040109@quadratic.net> <1e55af990601062227m3d45cd26sd05a82a233f675fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43BFDDCE.4070803@sympatico.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > > Heck, I had to download and install a third-party "blank" > screensaver.. how silly is that? You clearly didn't look very hard: System Preferences > Energy Saver > "Put the display to sleep when the computer is inactive for ...". Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 15:43:08 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 10:43:08 -0500 Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <20060106200446.87990.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1136648588.16090.54.camel@holden.weait.net> On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 15:04, Colin McGregor wrote: > - The circuit shown in > http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html is simple (and can > be made simpler, there are voltage regulators that > don't require the protective diode D1 :-) ). Still, > for publication I would want a SIMPLE circuit drawing > program. Suggestions? > > - Likewise, would there be any interest in doing a PC > board for the above? This would be done again with a > view towards publication. Eagle PCB is developed under Linux and ported to Mac and some other OS that escapes me at the moment. It is Proprietary and Closed. There is a free educational / demo version. http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm Samples of EAGLE CAD output, from one of my projects, are here: http://www.dyoh.com/?q=node/view/23 about half way down the page. The canonical FLOSS electronic CAD system is gEDA. I have not used it. http://geda.seul.org/ I could do a board layout (and manufacture) for you but would not allow publication unless: - the board has been manufactured and tested (and works!) - publication is not exclusive. So what is your schedule? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 17:27:09 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 12:27:09 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> Paul Mora wrote: > Maybe it's age... I find idea of spending hours just getting a DVD movie > to play or installing a new version of OpenOffice.org very unappealing. > I have better things to do with my time. DVD players are great, finally got one about 2 years ago $30 ... connect to 110V, connect to TV, insert DVD, press play ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 7 18:41:41 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:41:41 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43BFF9ED.5030901-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260432y62c2f5aan3ff2ffa025498f14@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> Fraser Campbell wrote: > Paul Mora wrote: > >> Maybe it's age... I find idea of spending hours just getting a DVD >> movie to play or installing a new version of OpenOffice.org very >> unappealing. I have better things to do with my time. > Heavens, you're not slipping into that "the computer is not an end in itself" frame of mind, are you? :-) > DVD players are great, finally got one about 2 years ago $30 ... > connect to 110V, connect to TV, insert DVD, press play ;-) And then you get to the remote control. IMO DVDs come with some of the worst interfaces of any household device. One that I have (Pioneer) has a remote with about 20 buttons on the bottom, most of which are dual-purpose and have ill-defined functions. There are two sets of up-down-right-left buttons, one set for play/pause/speed and the other for menu navigation. The supposedly-helpful feature of "consolidating" multiple devices on one remote usually leads to just more complexity without accomplishing the task very well. Compounding the frustration are the frequent DVD "you can't do that" messages, such as when you try to skip past a segment that the content producer wants to force you to endure (such as the producer credits and anti-"piracy" threats). Maybe some of this is the content producers' fault (well, much of it actually) but the result is a crappy experience that makes one want to burn every DVD to hard disk before watching, just to make the viewing experience less painful. (This is in part why I was asking about Linux-based PVRs earlier...). Other supremely dumb things about the current state of DVDs: - Does anyone really use the "chapters" function of DVDs? Isn't it more valuable to be able to go easily to a specific time index? - "Easter eggs", deliberately buried bits of content that "reward" you for spending more time than you want to, looking for unmarked menu choices. If you want to play a game buy a game. - Don't even get me started about the region codes. It's quite the crowd-pleasing feature of Linux-based video that I can play European, North American and Asian DVDs on the same laptop. This has allowed me to buy foreign DVDs (like Asterix movies) that aren't available in Region 1 at any price. Otherwise I would have had to pirate them in other to see them -- what's the logic? - "Unrated" extended versions which usually add stuff that was cut out of the theatrical release for very good reason In summation, I can't share Fraser's delight in the "simplicity" of DVDs and their players. I can navigate one on Xine more easily than on a regular player, especially thanks to the option of a mouse instead of navigation buttons. A little time invested in a PC-based video system strikes me as a worthwhile investment in simplifying the experience later on. Then again, I see the evolution of Linux-based PVRs being similar to the evolution of Linux-based systems in general. First you make it work well, only then do you concentrate on making it pretty and easy to use. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 02:12:37 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:12:37 -0500 Subject: Rogers connection problems In-Reply-To: <43BDF6FD.7050603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1136506337.9303.23.camel@localhost> <43BDE3B1.2070601@rogers.com> <43BDF6FD.7050603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060108021237.GA30916@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 11:50:05PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote > Hey, Could someone tell me if my last message wrapped at 72 columns? I > swear I have it set (just checked) but it's coming across unwrapped > in Thunderbird, and it's got those stupid blue bars instead of '>' > quoting again... Looks good to me. I'm running mutt in on an 80x48 real textmode console and it wraps properly. Since I'm running in maildir mode, I dove into the directory with the message, and opened it up with vim. No multipart garbage. Don't you just hate so-called "user-friendly" software that operates on a "need-to-know" basis, and the programmers don't think you need to know what your email *REALLY* looks like? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 03:03:19 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 22:03:19 -0500 Subject: Solved! Telling a browser to keep a connection alive Message-ID: <43C080F7.1030407@alteeve.com> Hi all, I got a lot of feedback on this problem when I posted a little while ago so I wanted to post an update... I tried Fraser's Non-Parsed Headers trick and that gave me /more/ time but in the end, the connection still died if the server took too long to respond. It was a great piece of info though!! I suspect I'll be trying that trick elsewhere later. I tried a different web server (three in all, xs_httpd, apache2 and, the one that I've used for a while, Boa) and tried playing with their KeepAlive and Timeout settings but in the end, it could still die... What finally worked is: I had the main script call a secondary script that printed it's output to a file. The main program called this file using '& |' to disconnect and return. To be sure I didn't have a run-away script, I would watch for a specific temporary file to appear. If it took more than ten seconds than I knew the secondary script failed and I die. If it did show up though then I knew it launched okay and and I read it's contents and printed it to the screen. When the secondary script starts it adds and html REFRESH to the top of the page. This refresh calls the main script every period of time passing an extra cgi variable to tell it that it's just refreshing the screen. Before doing this though it checks the 'mtime' of the temp file to make sure it's still being updated. If the file hasn't been updated recently (X seconds) it considers the secondary script to have died, kills the temp file and prints an error. So long as the temp file is still being updated though the main script will read the temp file and print it's contents to the screen. The last thing the secondary file does when it is finished is to re-read the temp file, delete the REFRESH line and re-save the file. This way the last time the main script loads the contents of the temp file it stops refreshing the screen. The secondary script will, after waiting 2 seconds longer then the REFRESH time, delete the temp file to clean up. Voil?! A connection between the client and the server that will not die. More over, the user can even close his or her browser on a big job and periodically reload the page to see how the job is doing (ie: a backup job that could take hours on very large systems). I am sure it could be done more elegantly but for me, it works. :p Madison PS - Thanks to Marc (and Cameron here at home) for suggesting the "pull from client method". PPS - Thanks to Tom for the article on users and wait times. PPPS - Thanks to everyone who replied!! -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 04:55:46 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:55:46 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking Message-ID: Hi all, A am curious about the usage of CIRD on hosts (Not on the routers). I have always found that all the hosts I have used have been configured with the old class system. This is definitely different on the routers, but have anyone seen a network/DHCP server configured to dish out CIDR IPs? Would it be healthy to intermix the old class system and CIRD on a small network? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain_Routing Thank you a lot William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 05:34:36 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:34:36 -0600 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43BFF9ED.5030901-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990601072134n7421682djb87a9e0ee4bdaf7a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Paul Mora wrote: > > > Maybe it's age... I find idea of spending hours just getting a DVD movie > > to play or installing a new version of OpenOffice.org very unappealing. > > I have better things to do with my time. > > DVD players are great, finally got one about 2 years ago $30 ... connect > to 110V, connect to TV, insert DVD, press play ;-) What's a TV? I've heard of those.. ;) I've got the video inputs on my new screen.. I should figure out how to do video-in one day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 05:37:16 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:37:16 -0600 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43BFDDCE.4070803-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <43BF0011.3040109@quadratic.net> <1e55af990601062227m3d45cd26sd05a82a233f675fc@mail.gmail.com> <43BFDDCE.4070803@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601072137t28c8793anaf5a956a72fd9124@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > > > Heck, I had to download and install a third-party "blank" > > screensaver.. how silly is that? > > You clearly didn't look very hard: System Preferences > Energy Saver > > "Put the display to sleep when the computer is inactive for ...". No, I was looking where I thought to look, and the functionality wasn't _there_. Or rather, I was thinking in different terms. This isn't a problem I need to solve anymore.. but does that energy saving also lock the screen? My ultimate goal was a locked blank screen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 06:08:29 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 00:08:29 -0600 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > So the question became: is there an open source licence that would > restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? While everyone goes off into their tangents, if I ignore "open source" then the short answer is yes.. there is a license which will allow the source code to be re-distributed and not be available for commercial uses. See the creative commons licenses. There are a few non-commercial licenses to choose from. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ I recommend Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 06:19:51 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 00:19:51 -0600 Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <20060106200446.87990.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601072219k2c08c879j79b639bd43aad20d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am taking a close look at LIRC (Linux Infrared > Remote Control) program, which allows you to use a TV > remote control to control your Linux based machine, > something great for MythTV and/or presentation > software such as Kpresenter. My motive in all this is > two-fold, it is interesting technology and yes I have > an article in mind for what I am doing. I have an X-10 mouse-remote which uses radio instead of infrared. I tested it and got it working some time ago. I would recommend looking at one of these instead of going homebrew where possible. I haven't properly written up my notes, but if you get interested in this as an alternative I'll go hunt down what I had done with it. It's fairly simple.. no real voodoo required. Someone wrote some perl scripting to use it under Linux.. and there's only a configuration file to customize and a script to run. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 13:26:30 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 08:26:30 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > A am curious about the usage of CIRD on hosts (Not on the routers). > I have always found that all the hosts I have used have been > configured with the old class system. This is definitely different on > the routers, but have anyone seen a network/DHCP server configured to > dish out CIDR IPs? Would it be healthy to intermix the old class > system and CIRD on a small network? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain_Routing I have never seen a system that required address classes. I've always been able to use CIRD. Are you confusing systems that have been configured according to the class rules, with ones that require it? If you have an entry for sub net mask, the computer likely supports CIDR. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 14:23:07 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:23:07 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <43C11306.7090307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 08:26:30 -0500 References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> On Sun Jan 08,2006 08:26:30 AM James Knott wrote: > I have never seen a system that required address classes. I've > always been able to use CIRD. AFAIK if you want to use the /etc/networks file to resolve network names (as you do with hosts in /etc/hosts), then you have to stick with network classes because /etc/networks does not allow you to specify a mask. If you resolve network names using DNS or just use numbered IP addresses, then /etc/networks is not required and CIDR can be used. Other than the /etc/networks file, I haven't come across anything in Linux that is IP class dependent, unless you want to use RIP V1 as a routing protocol. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:08:16 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:08:16 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C12AE0.3010206@telly.org> Sy Ali wrote: >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > >>So the question became: is there an open source licence that would >>restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? >> >> > >While everyone goes off into their tangents, if I ignore "open source" >then the short answer is yes.. > Please don't be insulting to other answers, just because you have your own (which dismisses the question in the process). The short answer to the original question is that you can have a license that restricts commercial use _or_ one that's open source -- the two concepts are mutually exclusive. The so-called "tangents" attempt to explain the differences between the two possible paths. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:19:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C00B65.1050107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 01:41:41PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > And then you get to the remote control. IMO DVDs come with some of the > worst interfaces of any household device. One that I have (Pioneer) has > a remote with about 20 buttons on the bottom, most of which are > dual-purpose and have ill-defined functions. There are two sets of > up-down-right-left buttons, one set for play/pause/speed and the other > for menu navigation. The supposedly-helpful feature of "consolidating" > multiple devices on one remote usually leads to just more complexity > without accomplishing the task very well. Well I have also seen DVD remotes that were nice and simple. It all depends how smart od stupid the person designing the remote was. I think some people just love extra buttons. > Compounding the frustration are the frequent DVD "you can't do that" > messages, such as when you try to skip past a segment that the content > producer wants to force you to endure (such as the producer credits and > anti-"piracy" threats). Maybe some of this is the content producers' > fault (well, much of it actually) but the result is a crappy experience > that makes one want to burn every DVD to hard disk before watching, just > to make the viewing experience less painful. (This is in part why I was > asking about Linux-based PVRs earlier...). Most DVD players that are region free, also allow fast forwarding through the 'no fast forward' sections. I think those segments are an incredibly stupid idea. I have read the @#$@#$ FBI warning a million times already. Forcing me to look at it another 5 or 10 seconds for every DVD I insert does not make me happy. > Other supremely dumb things about the current state of DVDs: > > - Does anyone really use the "chapters" function of DVDs? Isn't it more > valuable to be able to go easily to a specific time index? On some DVDs it is quite handy. DVDs with multiple TV show episodes on one DVD make good use of it. Some DVDs also seem to have indexes to the start of each scene, which might be nice too, since you can just to the start of a scene and play from there, where as by time you are likely to start in the middle of something. > - "Easter eggs", deliberately buried bits of content that "reward" you > for spending more time than you want to, looking for unmarked menu > choices. If you want to play a game buy a game. Some are pretty easy to find, some are not. The extra hard to find ones do seem silly. I guess some people like hunting like that. There are web sites you can look many of them up on of course if you think they are important to see. > - Don't even get me started about the region codes. It's quite the > crowd-pleasing feature of Linux-based video that I can play European, > North American and Asian DVDs on the same laptop. This has allowed me to > buy foreign DVDs (like Asterix movies) that aren't available in Region 1 > at any price. Otherwise I would have had to pirate them in other to see > them -- what's the logic? Well I also have a DVD player for my TV which is region free, doesn't tell me that I can't do something when I want to, and plays DVIX and XVID files too (and MP3s and such too of course). You can now get these for about $60. > - "Unrated" extended versions which usually add stuff that was cut out > of the theatrical release for very good reason Well that would be a content producer problem wouldn't it? At least with DVDs there is the option that they can make it a menu choice if you want to see it or not while watching the movie. Some may not remember to add such a menu option of course. > In summation, I can't share Fraser's delight in the "simplicity" of DVDs > and their players. I can navigate one on Xine more easily than on a > regular player, especially thanks to the option of a mouse instead of > navigation buttons. A little time invested in a PC-based video system > strikes me as a worthwhile investment in simplifying the experience > later on. Well I have used DVD players that had great interfaces. They are certainly not the majority of players though, which seems odd. > Then again, I see the evolution of Linux-based PVRs being similar to the > evolution of Linux-based systems in general. First you make it work > well, only then do you concentrate on making it pretty and easy to use. MythTV is pretty (I think). Having not used it much I can't say anything about easy to use. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:29:21 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:29:21 -0600 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43C12AE0.3010206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> <43C12AE0.3010206@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990601080729w1906b307u5be42b0458a33872@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > >On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > >>So the question became: is there an open source licence that would > >>restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? > >> > >> > > > >While everyone goes off into their tangents, if I ignore "open source" > >then the short answer is yes.. > > > Please don't be insulting to other answers, just because you have your > own (which dismisses the question in the process). > > The short answer to the original question is that you can have a license > that restricts commercial use _or_ one that's open source -- the two > concepts are mutually exclusive. > > The so-called "tangents" attempt to explain the differences between the > two possible paths. Please don't be offended. I chose to interpret the question less literally.. Aaron expressed some difficulty when trying to "penetrate the nether regions" and so I interpreted that as needing a much more direct answer. I saw the question as "I know this software author who won't give _anyone_ his source code because he doesn't have a license that stops commercial users from using his code. Can someone recommend something?" I use "tangent" to describe replies attacking the wording of the question so literally instead of trying out fuzzy perhaps-correct answers. Yes the issue is a big deal of course, and worthy of some conversation, but Aaron expressed tiredness at such roads. It's that programmer who would do well to understand the issue better, not this questioner .. which is why the article links being given are a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:34:07 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <20060108151910.GA26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Well I also have a DVD player for my TV which is region free, doesn't tell me that I can't do something when I want to, and plays DVIX and XVID files too (and MP3s and such too of course). You can now get these for about $60. > > If there's such a beast that also has the simple UI you described, I'd love to see it. Where in Toronto can such things be purchased? You certainly won't find them at Sears or FutureShop. The only ones I've seen were in Asia. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:38:48 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:38:48 -0500 Subject: var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601072137t28c8793anaf5a956a72fd9124-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <43BF0011.3040109@quadratic.net> <1e55af990601062227m3d45cd26sd05a82a233f675fc@mail.gmail.com> <43BFDDCE.4070803@sympatico.ca> <1e55af990601072137t28c8793anaf5a956a72fd9124@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C13208.8020207@sympatico.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > > This isn't a problem I need to solve anymore.. but does that energy > saving also lock the screen? My ultimate goal was a locked blank > screen. It can do, if you do System Preferences > Security > Require password to wake this computer from sleep of screen saver. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:42:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:42:30 -0600 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C00B65.1050107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > - Does anyone really use the "chapters" function of DVDs? Isn't it more > valuable to be able to go easily to a specific time index? I like chapter stops for skipping forced ads, warnings and other start-of-DVD bs. Time index would be a good feature for DVD players.. I was shocked that the "technology" didn't come out. I had seen VCRs which had a turnable knob for fast forwarding and rewinding.. which I thought was cool.. but remotes never had such a thing. A little knob on a remote would be an easily-understood interface for moving around a DVD's timeline. Just as long as that's all it did.. remote manufacturers would probably make it a joystick and also make it clickable. Ugh. Maybe remote makers get a per-button commission? Maybe marketers convince them that the market has some kind of competition for more and more buttons.. maybe someone convinced someone else that more buttons would sell more devices. .. Oh, and someone has to make the obligatory Apple Computers "one button remote" comment. Just "go", but probably with a + on it or something.. all In shiny white, of course. And it has 1500 accessories.. wrist strap, neck strap, skins.. other models with an lcd display that can show photos.. Sorry for the tangent, but remotes are indeed mindbogglingly complex. I can't even remember what the first half of the remote does by the time I get to the second half. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:44:50 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:44:50 -0500 Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601072219k2c08c879j79b639bd43aad20d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e55af990601072219k2c08c879j79b639bd43aad20d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C13372.9050406@sympatico.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > > I have an X-10 mouse-remote which uses radio instead of infrared. I > tested it and got it working some time ago. I would recommend looking > at one of these instead of going homebrew where possible. The ATI Remote Wonder (which identifies itself as an X10 RF USB remote) works out the box, and can be had from College St stores for ~$30. It works with LIRC, and is recognised as a USB keyboard/mouse. Sy and I could be missing Colin's point, tho'; maybe he *wants* to do the homebrew thing ... Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:48:55 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:48:55 -0600 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601080748k4e44202et8aa1954169f8b83a@mail.gmail.com> > Sorry for the tangent, but remotes are indeed mindbogglingly complex. > I can't even remember what the first half of the remote does by the > time I get to the second half. As an aside, I have a little X-10 radio remote control that I got working under Linux.. when I did use it, I only ever used pause/play, next, prev. I didn't even get around to thinking up scripts to attach to the various other buttons.. that was enough to get it working. Sure I could have various buttons load other playlists (this was my intention) or swap from xmms to xine mode or whatnot. Walkmans didn't have a confusing interface.. record players were simple enough.. VCR and DVD players are probably going to come out with dance mats. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 15:56:57 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:56:57 -0600 Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <43C13372.9050406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060106200446.87990.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1e55af990601072219k2c08c879j79b639bd43aad20d@mail.gmail.com> <43C13372.9050406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601080756m296a18e2r41b9a42ba77bcc4d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > The ATI Remote Wonder (which identifies itself as an X10 RF USB remote) > works out the box, and can be had from College St stores for ~$30. It > works with LIRC, and is recognised as a USB keyboard/mouse. Nice tip. I poked around for some info, for the Google-impaired lurkers: Site: http://www.ati.com/products/remotewonder/ Linux Drivers: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=12629 Instructions: http://remotew.free.fr/linux_en.htm > Sy and I could be missing Colin's point, tho'; maybe he *wants* to do > the homebrew thing ... This is true. I think we did the equivalent of answering a tech problem with "just use Slackware". Whoops. =) Colin, I'm using a Model MK19A X-10.. if you want to borrow it before deciding to pick one up that's cool with me. It's a serial dongle, as opposed to ATI's usb dongle. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:18:40 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:18:40 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C130EF.7060504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060108161840.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 10:34:07AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > If there's such a beast that also has the simple UI you described, I'd > love to see it. Where in Toronto can such things be purchased? You > certainly won't find them at Sears or FutureShop. The only ones I've > seen were in Asia. Well I got mine for $200 a couple of years ago at pacific mall. It has a european plug on it for power, but they included an adapter (it runs on 90-240V so that isn't a problem). It has all the outputs I could want, including VGA with progresive scan. I saw a similar one advertised in the local newspaper (markham) for $60 about 2 weeks ago. Just a small add in the paper. Given the large population of people in markham that are from other parts of the world, region free players are very popular around here. I think the player I saw advertised was the RJ-700DVX, at least a search for that gives the right features and the right price range. I can't remember the name of the store that advertised it. Seems rjtech makes a number of these players. I consider the divx support a nifty bonus, but it is NOT generally something worth buying the player for. On mine, fast forward and rewind is VERY unstable on dvix/xvid files, and from what I read, that seems to be very common on all the players that support divx playback. They just don't seem to have quite the same reliability in their hardware as a full PC software player has. So for the ultimate play anything you throw at it, a PC is hard to beat. Being region free, and usually not telling you what you can't do, the hongkong import players are rather nice though. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:21:06 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:21:06 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060108162106.GC26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 09:42:30AM -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > I like chapter stops for skipping forced ads, warnings and other > start-of-DVD bs. Time index would be a good feature for DVD players.. > I was shocked that the "technology" didn't come out. I had seen VCRs > which had a turnable knob for fast forwarding and rewinding.. which I > thought was cool.. but remotes never had such a thing. My parents Sony DVD player has such a thing on the player and the remote. Best DVD remote I have ever seen. Of course that one was bought when DVD players costing $500 were a great deal. :) Doesn't play CD-R, CD-RW (simply can't read them being a single laser player). > A little knob on a remote would be an easily-understood interface for > moving around a DVD's timeline. Just as long as that's all it did.. > remote manufacturers would probably make it a joystick and also make > it clickable. Ugh. Certainly the rotating wheel is the best I have used. > Maybe remote makers get a per-button commission? Maybe marketers > convince them that the market has some kind of competition for more > and more buttons.. maybe someone convinced someone else that more > buttons would sell more devices. > > .. Oh, and someone has to make the obligatory Apple Computers "one > button remote" comment. Just "go", but probably with a + on it or > something.. all In shiny white, of course. > > And it has 1500 accessories.. wrist strap, neck strap, skins.. other > models with an lcd display that can show photos.. > > Sorry for the tangent, but remotes are indeed mindbogglingly complex. > I can't even remember what the first half of the remote does by the > time I get to the second half. Yeah some are that bad. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:25:59 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:25:59 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>; from sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 10:42:30 -0500 References: <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060108162559.GA3778@localhost> On Sun Jan 08,2006 10:42:30 AM Sy Ali wrote: > I had seen VCRs which had a turnable knob for > fast forwarding and rewinding.. which I thought > was cool.. but remotes never had such a thing. The remotes for my Panasonic PV-7664 VCR and my Samsung DVD-HD841 DVD player both have a knob for fast forwarding and rewinding. Both are spring loaded and proportional; the further you rotate them, the faster the FFW/RW. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:34:50 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:34:50 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>; from sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 10:42:30 -0500 References: <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060108163450.GC3778@localhost> On Sun Jan 08,2006 10:42:30 AM Sy Ali wrote: > Time index would be a good feature for DVD players.. > I was shocked that the "technology" didn't come out. Both my Samsung DVD-HD841 DVD player and my Toshiba RD-XS32 DVD recorder allow me to specify the time to jump to within an track, in minutes and seconds. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:41:14 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:41:14 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C140AA.404@sympatico.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > > .. Oh, and someone has to make the obligatory Apple Computers "one > button remote" comment. The first TV remote I ever saw had only one button. Click it, and it changed to the next channel. Since there were only three channels then, it wasn't to much hassle not to have an up/down control. The remote was acoustic, had no batteries (it really did click, loudly), and sent the neighbour's dog *mental* ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 16:55:22 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:55:22 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C140AA.404-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 11:41:14 -0500 References: <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> <43C140AA.404@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060108165522.GA3882@localhost> On Sun Jan 08,2006 11:41:14 AM Stewart C. Russell wrote: > The first TV remote I ever saw had only one button. Click it, and > it changed to the next channel. Same with me, but the one I saw had two buttons: channel up and power on/off. Of course, the channel button would actually cause the channel knob on the TV to rotate :-) -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 17:37:35 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:37:35 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Thanks for the response. I suspected most modern host will work with CIRD, but haven't seen it used widely. Since it has been over 10 years since CIRD came to existance, this should not be the case and I wondered whether there was a technical reason behind it and hence the email Now Knott, since you have experience with this set up, have you came across a problem that you can attribute to CIRD misconfiguration? What were the symptoms, just in case I ever happen to come across that issue? Allen mentioned an instance where CIRD can not be used and this may lead to a situation where classed and classless system network. One last thing, am I correct to assume one identify whether a host is configured with class or classless system by using "ifconfig" and "route" commands and then looking at the netmask? Thank you William On 1/8/06, Scott Allen wrote: > On Sun Jan 08,2006 08:26:30 AM James Knott wrote: > > I have never seen a system that required address classes. I've > > always been able to use CIRD. > > AFAIK if you want to use the /etc/networks file to resolve network > names (as you do with hosts in /etc/hosts), then you have to stick > with network classes because /etc/networks does not allow you to > specify a mask. If you resolve network names using DNS or just use > numbered IP addresses, then /etc/networks is not required and CIDR > can be used. > > Other than the /etc/networks file, I haven't come across anything in > Linux that is IP class dependent, unless you want to use RIP V1 as a > routing protocol. > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 17:47:03 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:47:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: LIRC - Linux Infrared Remote Control. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080756m296a18e2r41b9a42ba77bcc4d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601080756m296a18e2r41b9a42ba77bcc4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060108174703.15205.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/8/06, Stewart C. Russell > wrote: > > The ATI Remote Wonder (which identifies itself as > an X10 RF USB remote) > > works out the box, and can be had from College St > stores for ~$30. It > > works with LIRC, and is recognised as a USB > keyboard/mouse. > > Nice tip. I poked around for some info, for the > Google-impaired lurkers: > > Site: > http://www.ati.com/products/remotewonder/ > Linux Drivers: > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=12629 > Instructions: > http://remotew.free.fr/linux_en.htm > > > > Sy and I could be missing Colin's point, tho'; > maybe he *wants* to do > > the homebrew thing ... > > This is true. I think we did the equivalent of > answering a tech > problem with "just use Slackware". Whoops. =) Well, I have on hand an el-cheapo TV tuner card that came with a IR detector on a short cord, an (old) Creative CD-ROM with an IR detector (supported under LIRC), a laptop with an IR detector, and a home made serial IR dongle. So, I am good when it comes to the infrared detectors. The issue comes up when writing, when one wants to tell people here are your options, and yes I want to say, ok if you want to roll your own detector this is a way to do it... Also to be frank, I sort of hoped there was a bigger bunch than we seem to have here who know the smell of flux (a cleaner used to help ensure solder bonds to electronic parts), and are interested in what strikes me as a small, cute hack. > Colin, I'm using a Model MK19A X-10.. if you want to > borrow it before > deciding to pick one up that's cool with me. It's a > serial dongle, as > opposed to ATI's usb dongle. Thanks, but no thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 17:51:01 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:51:01 +0200 (IST) Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601080748k4e44202et8aa1954169f8b83a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200512260634.jBQ6YGDG068443@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <1e55af990601080742n29a04ad8kef8938b33dbf620f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601080748k4e44202et8aa1954169f8b83a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > Walkmans didn't have a confusing interface.. record players were > simple enough.. VCR and DVD players are probably going to come out > with dance mats. But humans do not have 8 extremities ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 18:09:08 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 13:09:08 -0500 Subject: Adding icons to Gnome/KDE menus Message-ID: <43C15544.8060508@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been trying to find information on adding an item to the Gnome (and later KDE) panels for my program. I found how to manually add an icon using "Applications Menu Editor" but even grep'ing for strings in it didn't help... I have an installer script that, well, installs the program. I would like to add the option to the installer to have a menu icon added that would call the user's default browser of choice pointing to the program (ie: 'firefox http://localhost:853/cgi-bin/tle-bu.cgi'). The problem I have is that I have no idea how to do this from the command line. From the best I could gather so far, I need to put a text file somewhere in '/usr/share/gnome??'. Can anyone give me any pointers? I've tried google and google groups and I've looked through the Gnome docs and FAQs on their page without luck... Of course, the program and the installer are written in perl. :p Thanks in advance!! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 19:51:58 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:51:58 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> Message-ID: <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi > Thanks for the response. I suspected most modern host will work with > CIRD, but haven't seen it used widely. Since it has been over 10 years > since CIRD came to existance, this should not be the case and I > wondered whether there was a technical reason behind it and hence the > email > Now Knott, since you have experience with this set up, have you came > across a problem that you can attribute to CIRD misconfiguration? What > were the symptoms, just in case I ever happen to come across that > issue? Allen mentioned an instance where CIRD can not be used and this > may lead to a situation where classed and classless system network. > One last thing, am I correct to assume one identify whether a host is > configured with class or classless system by using "ifconfig" and > "route" commands and then looking at the netmask? As I understand it, if you have a subnet mask where you can specify how many bit to use, you have CIRD. As I don't ever recall working with a non CIDR system, I can't speak to any problems caused by it. Bear in mind, that any CIDR system can be configured to behave like a non CIDR system. Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why are you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been obsolete for years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 20:24:28 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 15:24:28 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C130EF.7060504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990512260527l4663d9d1pe5ffbada40c170dc@mail.gmail.com> <20051227070330.GC7946@waltdnes.org> <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> Message-ID: <43C174FC.1080407@pppoe.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Well I also have a DVD player for my TV which is region free, doesn't >> tell me that I can't do something when I want to, and plays DVIX and >> XVID files too (and MP3s and such too of course). You can now get >> these for about $60. >> >> > If there's such a beast that also has the simple UI you described, I'd > love to see it. Where in Toronto can such things be purchased? You > certainly won't find them at Sears or FutureShop. The only ones I've > seen were in Asia. Evan Try Noori Gifts & Discount, 275 Yonge Street. They claim that they have 20 models, more than Future Shop. I believe the models start at $30 and up. Failing that, I'd try Chinatown. Your mileage may vary :o) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 20:30:20 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 15:30:20 -0500 Subject: adding icons to Gnome menus Message-ID: <43C1765C.6090709@rogers.com> I think that this link might be what you need or at least point you in the right direction: http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/docs/gnome-isv-guide/ I may never be much of a programmer, but I have definitely mastered Google. :lol: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 20:53:17 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:53:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: adding icons to Gnome menus In-Reply-To: <43C1765C.6090709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1765C.6090709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <62988.64.229.117.133.1136753597.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > I think that this link might be what you need or at least point you in the > right direction: > > http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/docs/gnome-isv-guide/ > > I may never be much of a programmer, but I have definitely mastered > Google. :lol: That look perfect, thank you! ... Now I just have to rebuild my system after my shiny new laptop hard drive just died first... This old 10GB drive is just sooooo slow. :p Well, something to read now! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 21:07:56 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:07:56 -0500 Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: <43C1765C.6090709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1765C.6090709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43C17F2C.6080703@istop.com> Right, I was given an opportunity to perform a test for a new possible job. My question is of the kind of young age students ask: please help me to solve this problem ;) Since however my life is largely at stake (yes) I do not hesitate to ask for help. I promisse: I will write that down that the answer was due to the help from TLUG :) OK, here the question is, with explanation (I cite everything exactly as I read): ==citation starts== Question: At the foundation of X server Clients how do you "PROGRAMMATICALLY" create and run multiple and individual X window instances? Explanation: What we nees is to create a multiple instance of X server simultanous on the same computer. Each instance should use a different Display. How create them PROGRAMMATICALLY and manage each session. Technically in gross steps, how would you create/implement the basis of a terminal server using X. ==citation ends== No, I do not know what "programmatically" means. But the answer must be made correct any way. Any ideas how to approach the problem? there is no time left... Kind, zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 21:24:50 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 16:24:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: <43C17F2C.6080703-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1765C.6090709@rogers.com> <43C17F2C.6080703@istop.com> Message-ID: <63204.64.229.117.133.1136755490.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> > Right, I was given an opportunity to perform a test for a new possible > job. My question is of the kind of young age students ask: please help > me to solve this problem ;) > > Since however my life is largely at stake (yes) I do not hesitate to ask > for help. I promisse: I will write that down that the answer was due to > the help from TLUG :) > > OK, here the question is, with explanation (I cite everything exactly as > I read): > > ==citation starts== > > Question: At the foundation of X server Clients how do you > "PROGRAMMATICALLY" create and run multiple and individual X window > instances? > > Explanation: What we nees is to create a multiple instance of X server > simultanous on the same computer. Each instance should use a different > Display. How create them PROGRAMMATICALLY and manage each session. > Technically in gross steps, how would you create/implement the basis of > a terminal server using X. > > ==citation ends== > > No, I do not know what "programmatically" means. But the answer must be > made correct any way. > > Any ideas how to approach the problem? there is no time left... > > Kind, > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Well, from the command line you issue "startx -- :#" where "#" is the X server number ('0' starts with gui run levels so generally you want to start with '1' and work up). How to do this "programatically" depends largely on what program you are using. For example, from perl I might issue #!/path/to/perl use FileHandle; my $open_x = new FileHandle; if ($open_x->open("startx -- :1 2>&1 |") ) { # It opened, you can read the output. } else { die "Gak! Error was: [$!]; } $open_x->close; I must warn though that I have no idea how you would control the X session once it is open... I use web interfaces for my programs so for that, you'll need someone else's advice. HTH Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 21:40:21 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:40:21 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <20060108161840.GB26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> <20060108161840.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C186C5.9040908@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>If there's such a beast that also has the simple UI you described, I'd >>love to see it. Where in Toronto can such things be purchased? You >>certainly won't find them at Sears or FutureShop. The only ones I've >>seen were in Asia. >> >> > >Well I got mine for $200 a couple of years ago at pacific mall. > Why doesn't that surprise me? ;-) I've found a lot of interesting things there. >It has a european plug on it for power, but they included an adapter (it runs >on 90-240V so that isn't a problem). > The cheapie region-free player that I brought back a few years ago was the same way; it was a European plug but variable voltage. >I think the player I saw advertised was the RJ-700DVX, at least a search >for that gives the right features and the right price range. I can't >remember the name of the store that advertised it. Seems rjtech makes a >number of these players. > > There will probably be a lot of "no-name" brands. >Being region free, and usually not >telling you what you can't do, the hongkong import players are rather >nice though. > > I agree. Interestingly, the player I got was branded "Hong Kong Electronics", but made and purchased in Malaysia. :-) Does anyone know whether there exists a region-free PC DVD drive? Most set a region in firmware, which you can only change a few times before it's permanent. While open source players ignore the region mismatch, Windows players don't; it would be nice to know if there are region-free PC drives just like there's are region-free standalone players. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 22:04:29 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:04:29 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter Message-ID: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, I got 30GB iPod for Christmas. I would like to try out its video capability. iPod plays the following formats: * H.264 File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov Video: Up to 768 kbits/sec, 320 x 240, 30 frames per second (fps), Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3. Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, and stereo audio. * MPEG-4 File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov Video: Up to 2.5 Mbits/sec, 480 x 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile. Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, stereo audio. Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, .avi) to above "iPod" format? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 22:17:47 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 17:17:47 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060108220429.GA3125-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43C18F8B.6000001@telly.org> William Park wrote: >Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, >.avi) to above "iPod" format? > > I think transcode should do the trick: http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?General_Information HTH, - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 22:37:37 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:37:37 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > So the question became: is there an open source licence that would > > restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? > > While everyone goes off into their tangents, if I ignore "open source" > then the short answer is yes.. there is a license which will allow the > source code to be re-distributed and not be available for commercial > uses. But that wasn't the question. The question is whether or not there is an open source license restricting use to "personal only." The answer is that there isn't one; there can't be. The usual definition of "open source" is found here... Terms #5 and #6 between them reject this sort of discrimination against commercial use. Ergo, you can't find an "open source" license of any sort that will be suitable, because the desired form of discrimination is incompatible with the notion of "open source." We're not going off on tangents; you, by changing subjects to non-OSS licenses, are the one introducing tangents. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 23:27:54 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:27:54 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C186C5.9040908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> <20060108161840.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C186C5.9040908@telly.org> Message-ID: <43C19FFA.1060201@pppoe.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >>> If there's such a beast that also has the simple UI you described, >>> I'd love to see it. Where in Toronto can such things be purchased? >>> You certainly won't find them at Sears or FutureShop. The only ones >>> I've seen were in Asia. >>> >> >> >> Well I got mine for $200 a couple of years ago at pacific mall. >> > Why doesn't that surprise me? ;-) I've found a lot of interesting things > there. > >> It has a european plug on it for power, but they included an adapter >> (it runs >> on 90-240V so that isn't a problem). >> > The cheapie region-free player that I brought back a few years ago was > the same way; it was a European plug but variable voltage. > >> I think the player I saw advertised was the RJ-700DVX, at least a search >> for that gives the right features and the right price range. I can't >> remember the name of the store that advertised it. Seems rjtech makes a >> number of these players. >> >> > There will probably be a lot of "no-name" brands. > >> Being region free, and usually not >> telling you what you can't do, the hongkong import players are rather >> nice though. >> >> > I agree. Interestingly, the player I got was branded "Hong Kong > Electronics", but made and purchased in Malaysia. :-) > > Does anyone know whether there exists a region-free PC DVD drive? Most > set a region in firmware, which you can only change a few times before > it's permanent. While open source players ignore the region mismatch, > Windows players don't; it would be nice to know if there are region-free > PC drives just like there's are region-free standalone players. http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/rpc1.htm Doom9.org calls this "the mother of all firmware sites": http://forum.rpc1.org/portal.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 23:45:06 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:45:06 +0000 Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: <43C17F2C.6080703-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43C17F2C.6080703@istop.com> Message-ID: One way is to use VNC. You can use Xvnc (raw x-server). Xvnc can be started on demand using xinetd. For example, it will automatically be started on a new display once a client comes in. And X session will be terminated as the client exits. You will need TightVNC (or RealVNC) and a vncviewer for that. I actually did a project in college. What it does is, it displays a complete copy of Open Office running inside any java-enabled web browser. For every new instance of browser a new Xvnc session is created with Open Office and a window manager running on it. Every user has independent session. This was done using java-based VNC viewer being served by Apache through xinetd....... If you want to do something similar then i can give u additional information. XDMCP can also be used for X-Terminal server. For that you may want to have a look at this document: http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/XDMCP-HOWTO/ All the best, Imran. >From: Zbigniew Koziol >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: [TLUG]: a sort of exam... >Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:07:56 -0500 > >Right, I was given an opportunity to perform a test for a new possible job. >My question is of the kind of young age students ask: please help me to >solve this problem ;) > >Since however my life is largely at stake (yes) I do not hesitate to ask >for help. I promisse: I will write that down that the answer was due to the >help from TLUG :) > >OK, here the question is, with explanation (I cite everything exactly as I >read): > >==citation starts== > >Question: At the foundation of X server Clients how do you >"PROGRAMMATICALLY" create and run multiple and individual X window >instances? > >Explanation: What we nees is to create a multiple instance of X server >simultanous on the same computer. Each instance should use a different >Display. How create them PROGRAMMATICALLY and manage each session. >Technically in gross steps, how would you create/implement the basis of a >terminal server using X. > >==citation ends== > >No, I do not know what "programmatically" means. But the answer must be >made correct any way. > >Any ideas how to approach the problem? there is no time left... > >Kind, >zb. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 23:47:48 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:47:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: www.gtalug.org homepage Message-ID: Hi all. The home page needs to be updated to reflect the new meeting date. I apparently can't make this change. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 8 23:58:29 2006 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:58:29 -0500 Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CFFC676-FBDB-4AC3-AE40-F6B56C572163@rogers.com> "programmatically" means by using a program, rather than typing things manually I would suggest that having a shell script for display in 1 0 2 do startx -- :$display done would qualify. Having several command lines in your .login might be eligible Tom On 8-Jan-06, at 6:45 PM, Muhammad Imran wrote: > One way is to use VNC. You can use Xvnc (raw x-server). Xvnc can be > started on demand using xinetd. For example, it will automatically > be started on a new display once a client comes in. And X session > will be terminated as the client exits. You will need TightVNC (or > RealVNC) and a vncviewer for that. > > I actually did a project in college. What it does is, it displays a > complete copy of Open Office running inside any java-enabled web > browser. For every new instance of browser a new Xvnc session is > created with Open Office and a window manager running on it. Every > user has independent session. This was done using java-based VNC > viewer being served by Apache through xinetd....... > > If you want to do something similar then i can give u additional > information. > > XDMCP can also be used for X-Terminal server. For that you may want > to have a look at this document: > > http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/XDMCP-HOWTO/ > > All the best, > Imran. > > >> From: Zbigniew Koziol >> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: [TLUG]: a sort of exam... >> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:07:56 -0500 >> >> Right, I was given an opportunity to perform a test for a new >> possible job. My question is of the kind of young age students >> ask: please help me to solve this problem ;) >> >> Since however my life is largely at stake (yes) I do not hesitate >> to ask for help. I promisse: I will write that down that the >> answer was due to the help from TLUG :) >> >> OK, here the question is, with explanation (I cite everything >> exactly as I read): >> >> ==citation starts== >> >> Question: At the foundation of X server Clients how do you >> "PROGRAMMATICALLY" create and run multiple and individual X window >> instances? >> >> Explanation: What we nees is to create a multiple instance of X >> server simultanous on the same computer. Each instance should use >> a different Display. How create them PROGRAMMATICALLY and manage >> each session. >> Technically in gross steps, how would you create/implement the >> basis of a terminal server using X. >> >> ==citation ends== >> >> No, I do not know what "programmatically" means. But the answer >> must be made correct any way. >> >> Any ideas how to approach the problem? there is no time left... >> >> Kind, >> zb. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 00:06:17 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:06:17 -0500 Subject: OT: Java web hosting Message-ID: <43C1A8F9.2000305@pppoe.ca> Excuse my ignorance, I've tried "googling". What is the difference between Java web hosting and plain web hosting with say, PHP? I understand it involves JVM. Why is it that less companies offer it and it may cost more? Is more bandwidth involved and a different set of skills or complexity? What is to stop someone running his or her own server and hosting Java-based apps? Thanks in advance. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 00:25:49 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:25:49 -0500 Subject: OT: Java web hosting In-Reply-To: <43C1A8F9.2000305-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1A8F9.2000305@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 1/8/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > Excuse my ignorance, I've tried "googling". > > What is the difference between Java web hosting and plain web hosting > with say, PHP? I understand it involves JVM. > > Why is it that less companies offer it and it may cost more? > Is more bandwidth involved and a different set of skills or complexity? It's not so much the bandwidth as it is that you'll quite likely be dominating usage of memory on the server. Java tends to be a RAM-hog, particularly as you progress to using J2EE and other "heavyweight frameworky" sorts of things. > What is to stop someone running his or her own server and hosting > Java-based apps? Nothing. The difference is essentially that with "plain old web hosting" where you're serving static files and *possibly* running a bit of Perl/Python/PHP is something where 15 clients could, in principle, share the same server. In contrast, it isn't tough to get to the point where traffic dictates having multiple Java application servers... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 00:34:30 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:34:30 -0500 Subject: OT: Java web hosting In-Reply-To: References: <43C1A8F9.2000305@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <43C1AF96.9030001@pppoe.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/8/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > >>Excuse my ignorance, I've tried "googling". >> >>What is the difference between Java web hosting and plain web hosting >>with say, PHP? I understand it involves JVM. >> >>Why is it that less companies offer it and it may cost more? >>Is more bandwidth involved and a different set of skills or complexity? > > > It's not so much the bandwidth as it is that you'll quite likely be > dominating usage of memory on the server. > > Java tends to be a RAM-hog, particularly as you progress to using J2EE > and other "heavyweight frameworky" sorts of things. > > >>What is to stop someone running his or her own server and hosting >>Java-based apps? > > > Nothing. > > The difference is essentially that with "plain old web hosting" where > you're serving static files and *possibly* running a bit of > Perl/Python/PHP is something where 15 clients could, in principle, > share the same server. > > In contrast, it isn't tough to get to the point where traffic dictates > having multiple Java application servers... Thanks for the explanation. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 00:54:08 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:54:08 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... Message-ID: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> I'm going to be setting up an internet cafe in Haiti next month. The project is completely voluntary and I am almost solely responsible for the computery bits. I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found that there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to 300mhz celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. With this in mind, my immediate thought is to use a terminal based system and simply purchase a decent server to run the whole operation. Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 and the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or other and Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with co-ax and others not. All are ISA of course. My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to boot from the network and how much (if at all) will their aging components affect both their access to the server and operations on the server itself? My second question, which arises in part from the first: which distro(s) would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate thought is something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for this are in part due to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and troubleshooting and am familiar with those three distros, both as server and as desktop. My third question: what type of network would work best? The cafe will have a satellite connection and will be carrying multiple voip connections for international calls. For most users speed will not be much of an issue since in the area I'll be working (just outside Jacmel), there is absolutely no internet or international call capability, so anything is better than nothing. I'll try to make it out to the meeting this week? if anyone feels like giving me any advice or pointers. Thanks for any thoughts, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 01:25:23 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:25:23 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1B430.4030803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Here are the notes from setting up a thin client based Linuxcaffe (www.linuxcaffe.ca) http://heinous.org/wiki/Linux_Stuff#Project_specific You should be able to use any pentium or better as a thin client. I'd just toss the 486's, personally. The machines probably won't book from the network, so you'll have to do like we did with the laptop, and create a boot disk that points to a LTSP server. Good luck! -Joseph- On 1/8/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm going to be setting up an internet cafe in Haiti next month. The > project is completely voluntary and I am almost solely responsible for > the computery bits. > > I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found that > there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to 300mhz > celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. With this > in mind, my immediate thought is to use a terminal based system and > simply purchase a decent server to run the whole operation. > > Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 and > the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or other > and Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with co-ax and > others not. All are ISA of course. > > My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to boot > from the network and how much (if at all) will their aging components > affect both their access to the server and operations on the server itself? > > My second question, which arises in part from the first: which distro(s) > would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate thought is > something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for this are in part > due to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and troubleshooting > and am familiar with those three distros, both as server and as desktop. > > My third question: what type of network would work best? The cafe will > have a satellite connection and will be carrying multiple voip > connections for international calls. For most users speed will not be > much of an issue since in the area I'll be working (just outside > Jacmel), there is absolutely no internet or international call > capability, so anything is better than nothing. > > I'll try to make it out to the meeting this week? if anyone feels like > giving me any advice or pointers. > > Thanks for any thoughts, > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 01:41:28 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:41:28 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1B430.4030803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060109014128.GA16399@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 07:54:08PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm going to be setting up an internet cafe in Haiti next month. The > project is completely voluntary and I am almost solely responsible for > the computery bits. > > I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found that > there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to 300mhz > celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. With this > in mind, my immediate thought is to use a terminal based system and > simply purchase a decent server to run the whole operation. > > Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 and > the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or other > and Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with co-ax and > others not. All are ISA of course. > > My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to boot > from the network and how much (if at all) will their aging components > affect both their access to the server and operations on the server itself? I doubt such vintage machines can do PXE boot. Since they won't have USB ports, even USB boot is out of question. Your options are - floppy boot. That is, load the kernel from floppy, then do NFS-root, then do thin-client. - harddisk boot. Install bare minimum Linux on local harddisk, and boot from that. Once booted, then do thin-client. Since you're setting up "Internet browsers", you really don't need central server at all. Just install bare minimum Linux needed for Firefox. > > My second question, which arises in part from the first: which distro(s) > would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate thought is > something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for this are in part > due to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and troubleshooting > and am familiar with those three distros, both as server and as desktop. Just use your favourite one. But, minimum install. > > My third question: what type of network would work best? The cafe will > have a satellite connection and will be carrying multiple voip > connections for international calls. For most users speed will not be > much of an issue since in the area I'll be working (just outside > Jacmel), there is absolutely no internet or international call > capability, so anything is better than nothing. Last time I used 10base2 (co-ax), it was okey. You say, "some with coax and other not". Then, the cheapest way is to bring bunch of cheap network cards with you. FactoryDirect flyer says Netgear 10/100 $9.98 for 2. I'm sure you can them cheaper. > > I'll try to make it out to the meeting this week? if anyone feels like > giving me any advice or pointers. > > Thanks for any thoughts, > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 01:57:54 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:57:54 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060108220429.GA3125-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 05:04:29PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I got 30GB iPod for Christmas. I would like to try out its video > capability. iPod plays the following formats: > > * H.264 > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > Video: Up to 768 kbits/sec, 320 x 240, 30 frames per > second (fps), Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3. > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, and stereo audio. > > * MPEG-4 > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > Video: Up to 2.5 Mbits/sec, 480 x 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile. > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, stereo audio. > > Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, > .avi) to above "iPod" format? There seem to be three possibilities: MEncoder (part of the MPlayer set), ffmpeg, and transcode. My daughter got the same 30GB iPod for the holidays; ever since I've been hitting my head against the wall to try to get one of these to work. Some of it may be Debian. There is a certain amount of talk about how to use ffmpeg to transcode video files to mp4. So far, I've converted .mpg files, but no luck with .vob files. For Debian, add the ftp.nerim.net site so that you get the relevant codecs (aac and so on). Mencoder does encode .vob files, but gives a "duplicate frame" message every third or fourth frame. I can play the resulting .mp4 file, but my daughter says it won't play on the iPod. Transcode simply crashes, segfaulting on everything I try. I'd post the command-line switches but so far nothing works reliably. If you find a way to do it, please post here or just let me know. Oh yes -- most annoying: If you have OS X handy, then install the free program ffmpegX, which is a front-end to the above tools. It seems to do the job more or less effortlessly, at least on .avi files and .mpg files. Why is this so hard in Linux? Darwin isn't half the *NIX. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 02:25:19 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:25:19 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C1C98F.2060109@gmx.de> Hello. I recently purchased Logitech V20 digital speakers for my laptop and now have question about setting up USB audio support for Linux (I am using the suse 10.0 distribution.) When I plug in the speakers, the following appears under "/var/log/messages" Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: usb 2-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: input: USB HID v1.00 Device [Logitech Logitech USB Speaker] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-2 This is a good sign, I guess, but the speakers still don't play. I looked at YaST (under "hardware" and "sound") as well as the alsa and kmix mixers, and I found nothing that allows me to regulate USB audio output. I did some research in the Internet but the little information I found exceeded my technical know-how (I am still a novice to Linux, a recent convert from Windows who still relies on the graphic interface 95% of the time.) Does anyone have experience with setting up digital speakers with Linux? Can anyone offer me advice? Thanks, Dominic > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 02:38:44 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:38:44 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1B430.4030803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C1CCB4.1030105@georgetown.wehave.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found that > there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to 300mhz > celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. With this > in mind, my immediate thought is to use a terminal based system and > simply purchase a decent server to run the whole operation. Xterms do sound like the best plan. > My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to boot > from the network and how much (if at all) will their aging components > affect both their access to the server and operations on the server itself? It isn't a big deal usually. Configure DHCP on server, configure clients to PXE boot. Older systems not able to PXE boot themselves might still be usable by making (tiny) floppies with etherboot. > My second question, which arises in part from the first: which distro(s) > would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate thought is > something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for this are in part > due to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and troubleshooting > and am familiar with those three distros, both as server and as desktop. Use whichever you are most comfortable with, I seem to recall that Ubuntu has integrated LTSP support ... that might give you a bit of a head start. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 03:53:03 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:53:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <20060108161840.GB26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43B407E2.8090107@quadratic.net> <1e55af990512300220i5789e7a7mdda6ef93491898d9@mail.gmail.com> <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> <20060108161840.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I think the player I saw advertised was the RJ-700DVX, at least a search | for that gives the right features and the right price range. I can't | remember the name of the store that advertised it. Seems rjtech makes a | number of these players. 3 RJ-Tech things are listed on Canada Computers site http://www.canadacomputers.com/ Under "Electronics", and within that "DVD Player/Recorder". I would give a link, but my URL looks to have private information. Dumb. I have no idea about the quality or region limitations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 04:02:45 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:02:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1B430.4030803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm going to be setting up an internet cafe in Haiti next month. The project Cool. We're doing a number of thin client installs at the moment, including one in Jamaica for an Internet cafe. > I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found that > there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to 300mhz > celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. With this in I hope you don't mean for the server. Realistically a modern XTerminal will want at least 64Mb ram. 128 or 256Mb is much more desirable. With anything less than 256Mb expect to need to swap across the network (which slows things down a lot). This ia mainly a result of the demands modern X clients like firefox place on the Xserver process (running on the thin client). Find more ram for the server. > Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 and the > dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or other and > Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with co-ax and others not. > All are ISA of course. Yay. Just pray they don't use isaPnP. That never worked properly. > My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to boot from > the network and how much (if at all) will their aging components affect both > their access to the server and operations on the server itself? As others have noted a network boot capability is unlikely on the older hardware. You probably want to look at Etherboot for booting the boxes from floppy. > My second question, which arises in part from the first: which distro(s) > would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate thought is > something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for this are in part due > to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and troubleshooting and am > familiar with those three distros, both as server and as desktop. Well I prefer Debian, including in situations like this but any full featured distro will be fine for the server. Use your favourite. > My third question: what type of network would work best? The cafe will > have a satellite connection and will be carrying multiple voip > connections for international calls. For most users speed will not be > much of an issue since in the area I'll be working (just outside > Jacmel), there is absolutely no internet or international call > capability, so anything is better than nothing. You mean for the LAN? As fast as you can make it. 100MBit switches are cheap as chips here so put a couple and lots of Cat5e cable in your suitcase. > I'll try to make it out to the meeting this week? if anyone feels like > giving me any advice or pointers. I'm not sure if you've done anything like this before but the key is to put gobs of ram in the server. A decent cpu in the server is nice too but not as important as lots and lots of ram. Based on the hardware you mention above even the server isn't going to be terribly powerful. If you need to spread the users across a couple of servers you could look at clustering or you could offer a "chooser" to allow users to log into different servers. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 04:33:23 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:33:23 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> I'm going to be setting up an internet cafe in Haiti next month. The >> project > > Cool. We're doing a number of thin client installs at the moment, > including one in Jamaica for an Internet cafe. > >> I checked out all the donated hardware for the cafe today and found >> that there are about 10 working computers, ranging from 486dx's to >> 300mhz celerons. The machine with the most ram I could find had 64mb. >> With this in > > I hope you don't mean for the server. Realistically a modern XTerminal > will want at least 64Mb ram. 128 or 256Mb is much more desirable. With > anything less than 256Mb expect to need to swap across the network > (which slows things down a lot). This ia mainly a result of the demands > modern X clients like firefox place on the Xserver process (running on > the thin client). > > Find more ram for the server. For a server, there is a budget that was decided on by my predecessor who jumped ship at the last minute. I can't say what it is, but there is enough to build a fairly powerful whitebox (with backup components too) with as much RAM as I can stuff in. >> Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 >> and the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or >> other and Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with >> co-ax and others not. All are ISA of course. > > Yay. Just pray they don't use isaPnP. That never worked properly. Some of the cards were Kingston. The rest I couldn't say as I didn't have time to open the boxes today. I'm not sure I ever will for that matter. >> My first question then: how hard will it be to get the computers to >> boot from the network and how much (if at all) will their aging >> components affect both their access to the server and operations on >> the server itself? > > As others have noted a network boot capability is unlikely on the older > hardware. You probably want to look at Etherboot for booting the boxes > from floppy. I've forgotten how spoiled I've become with grub and such. Etherboot sounds like just the tool that is needed to make the whole mess of a system work. >> My second question, which arises in part from the first: which >> distro(s) would work well in this proposed environment? My immediate >> thought is something like Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu etc. My reasons for >> this are in part due to the fact that I'll be remotely checking in and >> troubleshooting and am familiar with those three distros, both as >> server and as desktop. > > Well I prefer Debian, including in situations like this but any full > featured distro will be fine for the server. Use your favourite. Actually, I had thought of it, but as someone else noted, Ubuntu sounds like it supports LTSP without any work whatsoever. That being said, I suppose there isn't much to an "apt-get install lpst-server" now is there. I like Debian more then Ubuntu anyways, so thanks for the tip. >> My third question: what type of network would work best? The cafe will >> have a satellite connection and will be carrying multiple voip >> connections for international calls. For most users speed will not be >> much of an issue since in the area I'll be working (just outside >> Jacmel), there is absolutely no internet or international call >> capability, so anything is better than nothing. > > You mean for the LAN? As fast as you can make it. 100MBit switches are > cheap as chips here so put a couple and lots of Cat5e cable in your > suitcase. Just switches right? Sounds like any dlink/smc/linksys jobby will do the trick just fine. Most hub/switch combinations (home routers I mean?) can be put into switch mode as well? >> I'll try to make it out to the meeting this week? if anyone feels like >> giving me any advice or pointers. > > I'm not sure if you've done anything like this before but the key is to > put gobs of ram in the server. A decent cpu in the server is nice too > but not as important as lots and lots of ram. See above ;) > Based on the hardware you mention above even the server isn't going to > be terribly powerful. If you need to spread the users across a couple > of servers you could look at clustering or you could offer a "chooser" > to allow users to log into different servers. > > Rob > Nope this is the first time for me. Hopefully the first of many. I've looked at and applied to the NetCorps Program, but this came up and I'll be done with it before I'm able to participate in a longer (4-6 month) program. Thanks, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 04:37:39 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:37:39 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <43C16D5E.8020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: > Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why are > you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, > I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been obsolete > for years. That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very sorry for my ignorance by the way William On 1/8/06, James Knott wrote: > Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi > > Thanks for the response. I suspected most modern host will work with > > CIRD, but haven't seen it used widely. Since it has been over 10 years > > since CIRD came to existance, this should not be the case and I > > wondered whether there was a technical reason behind it and hence the > > email > > Now Knott, since you have experience with this set up, have you came > > across a problem that you can attribute to CIRD misconfiguration? What > > were the symptoms, just in case I ever happen to come across that > > issue? Allen mentioned an instance where CIRD can not be used and this > > may lead to a situation where classed and classless system network. > > One last thing, am I correct to assume one identify whether a host is > > configured with class or classless system by using "ifconfig" and > > "route" commands and then looking at the netmask? > > As I understand it, if you have a subnet mask where you can specify how > many bit to use, you have CIRD. As I don't ever recall working with a > non CIDR system, I can't speak to any problems caused by it. Bear in > mind, that any CIDR system can be configured to behave like a non CIDR > system. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 04:42:19 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:42:19 -0600 Subject: www.gtalug.org homepage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990601082042n54d05d7r5dd1a56148711924@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. The home page needs to be updated to reflect the new meeting > date. I apparently can't make this change. My apologies. The front page was locked to avoid spamming. I'm slowly splintering off various parts into templates so that the information can still be openly edited. For editing the GTALUG meeting date, use this link: http://www.gtalug.org/index.php?title=Template:TLUG_upcoming_meeting&action=edit -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 05:04:03 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:04:03 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <43C18F8B.6000001-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <43C18F8B.6000001@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060109050403.GA17450@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 05:17:47PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > William Park wrote: > > >Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, > >.avi) to above "iPod" format? > > > > > I think transcode should do the trick: > http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?General_Information Bookmarked. Thanks. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 05:11:31 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:11:31 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> Some new information about my USB speaker question: I have now noticed that the Kmix mixer registers the USB speakers, giving me mixer options for the usb speakers (bass, treble, and PCM). Everything appears to be working: when I turn the PCM off and on, the light on the USB speaker goes on and off as well. But the speakers still don't carry sound. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. Dominic [the old message...] Hello. I recently purchased Logitech V20 digital speakers for my laptop and now have question about setting up USB audio support for Linux (I am using the suse 10.0 distribution.) When I plug in the speakers, the following appears under "/var/log/messages" Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: usb 2-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: ALSA sound/usb/usbaudio.c:1225: current rate 0 is different from the runtime rate 48000 Jan 8 13:17:16 linux kernel: input: USB HID v1.00 Device [Logitech Logitech USB Speaker] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-2 This is a good sign, I guess, but the speakers still don't play. I looked at YaST (under "hardware" and "sound") as well as the alsa and kmix mixers, and I found nothing that allows me to regulate USB audio output. I did some research in the Internet but the little information I found exceeded my technical know-how (I am still a novice to Linux, a recent convert from Windows who still relies on the graphic interface 95% of the time.) Does anyone have experience with setting up digital speakers with Linux? Can anyone offer me advice? Thanks, Dominic > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 05:10:40 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:10:40 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109015754.GA18026-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060109051040.GB17450@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 08:57:54PM -0500, Peter King wrote: > > Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, > > .avi) to above "iPod" format? > > There seem to be three possibilities: MEncoder (part of the MPlayer > set), ffmpeg, and transcode. Bookmarked. Thanks. Much reading to do. I did find http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html which is a free Windows program for converting between Video/Audio alphabet soup. It works. I converted .mpg to .mp4 (H.264), and it played very well on iPod. 25fps was a little jerky, but 30fps was very smooth. But, my Windows 2003 box is P2/400MHz, and it's painfully SLOW. I'm hoping to do the conversion on much faster Linux box, and just copy it over to Windows box. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 06:14:01 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:14:01 -0600 Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: <1CFFC676-FBDB-4AC3-AE40-F6B56C572163-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1CFFC676-FBDB-4AC3-AE40-F6B56C572163@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601082214k3ea12796t479363d6aa1d59ec@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/06, Tom Legrady wrote: > "programmatically" means by using a program, rather than typing > things manually Pardon my topic-drift, but I had heard this word used by a non-native english speaker.. and it sounded very wierd. We talked about it several times and now I ought to return to him to admit that he was right to use the word in that way. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 08:42:56 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 03:42:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1E793.4060903-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | I've forgotten how spoiled I've become with grub and such. Etherboot sounds | like just the tool that is needed to make the whole mess of a system work. Apparently Grub can boot off the network too! But you have to have a grub with the right network drivers. I've never tried this. The precompiled Grub I looked at (FC4) had no drivers. Here's an extract from "info grub": Although GRUB is a disk-based boot loader, it does provide network support. To use the network support, you need to enable at least one network driver in the GRUB build process. For more information please see `netboot/README.netboot' in the source distribution. If you like Grub, it might be worth seeing what cards are supported. (Etherboot probably has different versions for different network cards too. You had better be sure that you have the right versions for each card you need to support.) My experience setting things up in the field is at conferences, not third world countries. One thing I'm sure applies in both cases: do the setup at home, as a dry run, before you go. It's the only way to find (most of) the things you need to take and to debug the setup in a workable environment (fast internet, PC hardware stores, fewer distractions, etc.). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 12:13:17 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:13:17 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43C2535D.1020400@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: >> Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why are >> you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, >> I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been obsolete >> for years. > That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a > class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a > netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and > B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is > currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 > I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 > transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very > sorry for my ignorance by the way > > William > > On 1/8/06, James Knott wrote: >> Kihara Muriithi wrote: >>> Hi >>> Thanks for the response. I suspected most modern host will work with >>> CIRD, but haven't seen it used widely. Since it has been over 10 years >>> since CIRD came to existance, this should not be the case and I >>> wondered whether there was a technical reason behind it and hence the >>> email >>> Now Knott, since you have experience with this set up, have you came >>> across a problem that you can attribute to CIRD misconfiguration? What >>> were the symptoms, just in case I ever happen to come across that >>> issue? Allen mentioned an instance where CIRD can not be used and this >>> may lead to a situation where classed and classless system network. >>> One last thing, am I correct to assume one identify whether a host is >>> configured with class or classless system by using "ifconfig" and >>> "route" commands and then looking at the netmask? >> As I understand it, if you have a subnet mask where you can specify how >> many bit to use, you have CIRD. As I don't ever recall working with a >> non CIDR system, I can't speak to any problems caused by it. Bear in >> mind, that any CIDR system can be configured to behave like a non CIDR >> system. The fact that a netmask falls on one of the class boundaries does not mean it's using address classes. What makes it CIDR, is the ability to use *ANY* practical netmask. Some of the valid masks will, of course, appear to be one of the old classes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 13:22:38 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:22:38 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109015754.GA18026-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200601090822.38683.jason@detachednetworks.ca> One option would be to use handbrake http://handbrake.m0k.org/ HandBrake is a GPL'd multiplatform, multithreaded DVD to MPEG-4 ripper/converter. HandBrake was originally available on the BeOS, but now has been ported over to MacOS X and to GNU/Linux. * Supported sources: o Any DVD-like source: VIDEO_TS folder, DVD image or real DVD (even encrypted) o PAL or NTSC o AC-3, LPCM or MPEG audio tracks * Outputs: o File format: MP4, AVI or OGM o Video: MPEG-4 or H.264 (1 or 2 passes or constant quantizer encoding) o Audio: AAC, MP3, Vorbis or AC-3 pass-through (supports encoding of several audio tracks) * Misc features o Chapter selection o Basic subtitle support (burned into the picture) o Integrated bitrate calculator o Picture deinterlacing, cropping and scaling o Grayscale encoding NOTE: Evidently in newer versions, using it within Linux is console only. So if you want a gui you will have to use 0.62 -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 13:42:42 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:42:42 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? Message-ID: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, For the past few years I have been using TMDA and I have been very happy with it (perhaps 20 pieces of non-mailing-list spam in that time). I have had no complaints from people emailing me just the odd person who was not in my whitelist being confused by my verification message. Still I'm not extremely happy about how TMDA works. I don't like the fact that contributes additional junk mail to all the garbage that is floating around out there. I also don't like that I know I'm missing out on some automated mails (newsletters let's say) since most automated systems will not respond to verification mails and I don't always know where they will come from in order to whitelist them. Last night (23:30) I finally disabled TMDA, by 06:30 I already had 54 pieces of spam. I rather like the idea of an anti-spam solution that rejects mail during SMTP transaction. I'm not happy with the idea of any system that directs mail to /dev/null or even a folder that I will never read ... if I am not going to read it I'd like that to be explicit by issuing an SMTP reject, that way any unfortunate sender who gets blocked will know. I'm open to differing opinions on this though ... I haven't really looked at any spam solutions since I implemented TMDA so I'm hoping you can all share opinions on how to beat spam (a bit of a vi vs. emacs type question I suppose). I use postfix and have already formed a strong preference in the postfix vs. sendmail war ;-) Thanks, Fraser P.S. I mostly read mail with thunderbird so for now I am going to try out it's built in junk filter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 13:51:58 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:51:58 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43C26A7E.1050402@georgetown.wehave.net> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a > class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a > netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and > B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is > currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 > I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 > transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very > sorry for my ignorance by the way Linux will work with any netmask you assign, whether it is class compliant or not. There is no requirement to treat a 10. address as class A. As long as you explicitly state your netmask for each address Linux will work just fine with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 14:19:58 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:19:58 -0600 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C1F083.5010308-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > Some new information about my USB speaker question: I have now noticed > that the Kmix mixer registers the USB speakers, giving me mixer options > for the usb speakers (bass, treble, and PCM). Everything appears to be > working: when I turn the PCM off and on, the light on the USB speaker > goes on and off as well. But the speakers still don't carry sound. What > am I doing wrong? Sorry if this is a redundant question, but is PCM (or any channel) muted? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 14:27:58 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:27:58 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> " "Sorry if this is a redundant question, but is PCM (or any channel) muted?"..... No, its a good question. I checked several times to make sure that all channels, including PCM, weren't muted. But the speakers still won't play. Could it be something with a module? thanks, dominic > On 1/8/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > >> Some new information about my USB speaker question: I have now noticed >> that the Kmix mixer registers the USB speakers, giving me mixer options >> for the usb speakers (bass, treble, and PCM). Everything appears to be >> working: when I turn the PCM off and on, the light on the USB speaker >> goes on and off as well. But the speakers still don't carry sound. What >> am I doing wrong? >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 14:43:58 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:43:58 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C272EE.7030706-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> Message-ID: What application are you using to play sounds? -Joseph- On 1/9/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > " > > "Sorry if this is a redundant question, but is PCM (or any channel) > muted?"..... > > No, its a good question. I checked several times to make sure that all > channels, including PCM, weren't muted. But the speakers still won't > play. Could it be something with a module? > > thanks, > dominic > > > On 1/8/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > > > >> Some new information about my USB speaker question: I have now noticed > >> that the Kmix mixer registers the USB speakers, giving me mixer options > >> for the usb speakers (bass, treble, and PCM). Everything appears to be > >> working: when I turn the PCM off and on, the light on the USB speaker > >> goes on and off as well. But the speakers still don't carry sound. What > >> am I doing wrong? > >> > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 15:11:27 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:11:27 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> Message-ID: <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> So far, I was testing everything using amarok, trying both the aRts and xine sound engines. In the case of the xine engine, the output plugin was set to "autodetect." --dominic Joseph Kubik wrote: > What application are you using to play sounds? > -Joseph- > > On 1/9/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > >> " >> >> "Sorry if this is a redundant question, but is PCM (or any channel) >> muted?"..... >> >> No, its a good question. I checked several times to make sure that all >> channels, including PCM, weren't muted. But the speakers still won't >> play. Could it be something with a module? >> >> thanks, >> dominic >> >> >>> On 1/8/06, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Some new information about my USB speaker question: I have now noticed >>>> that the Kmix mixer registers the USB speakers, giving me mixer options >>>> for the usb speakers (bass, treble, and PCM). Everything appears to be >>>> working: when I turn the PCM off and on, the light on the USB speaker >>>> goes on and off as well. But the speakers still don't carry sound. What >>>> am I doing wrong? >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >>> >>> >>> >> - > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 15:29:49 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:29:49 -0500 Subject: DVDs are simple? Re:var is mysteriously clogged In-Reply-To: <43C186C5.9040908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060101030311.7b88bb45.dchipman@Ican.net> <1e55af990601020838h53284835y7c7d605d003a96d5@mail.gmail.com> <43B961F3.1080201@pppoe.ca> <43BFF9ED.5030901@georgetown.wehave.net> <43C00B65.1050107@telly.org> <20060108151910.GA26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C130EF.7060504@telly.org> <20060108161840.GB26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C186C5.9040908@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060109152949.GD26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 04:40:21PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I agree. Interestingly, the player I got was branded "Hong Kong > Electronics", but made and purchased in Malaysia. :-) > > Does anyone know whether there exists a region-free PC DVD drive? Most > set a region in firmware, which you can only change a few times before > it's permanent. While open source players ignore the region mismatch, > Windows players don't; it would be nice to know if there are region-free > PC drives just like there's are region-free standalone players. RPC1 drives did it all in the player, while current RPC2 drives do it in hardware and software. RPC2 drives are the ones with max 5 changes. I have flashed a couple of pioneer drives in the past with unofficial firmware that made them RPC1 rather than RPC2, after which there is software for windows that will fake the region code when the player accesses the drive. Of course Windows Vista won't play DVDs from RPC1 drives, but all current versions don't mind. Of course if you could get a player for windows that simply ignores the mismatch you would have the same result as linux, which might be simpler. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 15:32:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:32:32 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C27D1F.7090602-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:11:27AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > So far, I was testing everything using amarok, trying both the aRts and > xine sound engines. In the case of the xine engine, the output plugin > was set to "autodetect." What is listed in /proc/asound/cards ? Do you have a sound card as well as the usb speakers? If so, maybe the applications are all using the soundcard rather than the usb speakers, if the sound card is the first device found. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:01:01 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <20060109014128.GA16399-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <20060109014128.GA16399@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060109160101.GF26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 08:41:28PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I doubt such vintage machines can do PXE boot. Since they won't have > USB ports, even USB boot is out of question. Your options are > - floppy boot. That is, load the kernel from floppy, then do > NFS-root, then do thin-client. > - harddisk boot. Install bare minimum Linux on local harddisk, and > boot from that. Once booted, then do thin-client. Until onboard network ports became common, network boot was pretty rare, unless you bought a boot rom for the card. A few boards will netboot specific types of network cards though. > Since you're setting up "Internet browsers", you really don't need > central server at all. Just install bare minimum Linux needed for > Firefox. Well upgrading 10 machines is slightly more work than upgrading one central terminal server. But the terminal server costs money to build, and unless you have decent network speed, thin clients are not fun at all. 10Mbit really doesn't cut it. > Just use your favourite one. But, minimum install. Many distributions won't run on a 486 anymore. > Last time I used 10base2 (co-ax), it was okey. You say, "some with coax > and other not". Then, the cheapest way is to bring bunch of cheap > network cards with you. FactoryDirect flyer says Netgear 10/100 $9.98 > for 2. I'm sure you can them cheaper. Assuming the 486's have PCI slots. Most don't. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:12:51 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:12:51 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <20060109153232.GE26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> This is what I find under /proc/asound/cards: >> # ls -l /proc/asound/cards >> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:06 /proc/asound/cards This is what I find under /proc/asound/card0: # ls -l /proc/asound/card0 total 0 dr-xr-xr-x 9 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 . dr-xr-xr-x 5 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 .. dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 codec97#0 -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 id -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 intel8x0 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 oss_mixer dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0c dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0p dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm1c dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm2c dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm3c dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm4p When I just check under /proc/asound/ only the following files are blue: I82801DBICH4 -> card0; card0; oss; and seq Again, I am still novice, so apologies for not knowing how to interpret this information.... Thanks, Dominic > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > What is listed in /proc/asound/cards ? > > Do you have a sound card as well as the usb speakers? If so, maybe the > applications are all using the soundcard rather than the usb speakers, > if the sound card is the first device found. > > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:18:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:18:10 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109015754.GA18026-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060109161809.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 08:57:54PM -0500, Peter King wrote: > On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 05:04:29PM -0500, William Park wrote: > > > I got 30GB iPod for Christmas. I would like to try out its video > > capability. iPod plays the following formats: > > > > * H.264 > > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > > Video: Up to 768 kbits/sec, 320 x 240, 30 frames per > > second (fps), Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3. > > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, and stereo audio. > > > > * MPEG-4 > > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > > Video: Up to 2.5 Mbits/sec, 480 x 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile. > > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, stereo audio. > > > > Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, > > .avi) to above "iPod" format? > > There seem to be three possibilities: MEncoder (part of the MPlayer > set), ffmpeg, and transcode. My daughter got the same 30GB iPod for > the holidays; ever since I've been hitting my head against the wall > to try to get one of these to work. Some of it may be Debian. I see nothing about h.264 in the docs for transcode at a quick glange, only h.263. Maybe it doesn't > There is a certain amount of talk about how to use ffmpeg to transcode > video files to mp4. So far, I've converted .mpg files, but no luck with > .vob files. For Debian, add the ftp.nerim.net site so that you get the > relevant codecs (aac and so on). Does ffmpeg support .vob as input even? I know transcode does. > Mencoder does encode .vob files, but gives a "duplicate frame" message > every third or fourth frame. I can play the resulting .mp4 file, but > my daughter says it won't play on the iPod. > > Transcode simply crashes, segfaulting on everything I try. That seems odd. Which version? > I'd post the command-line switches but so far nothing works reliably. If > you find a way to do it, please post here or just let me know. > > Oh yes -- most annoying: If you have OS X handy, then install the free > program ffmpegX, which is a front-end to the above tools. It seems to > do the job more or less effortlessly, at least on .avi files and .mpg > files. Why is this so hard in Linux? Darwin isn't half the *NIX. Maybe apple hasn't released the codecs needed, given AAC is apples audio codec. I see this post mentions how to do it with VLC on Mac OS X, but again it may have a codec that linux is missing: http://www.windley.com/archives/2005/11/using_vlc_to_cr.shtml A possible useful link: http://groups.google.ca/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_frm/thread/bd0a98464bad5d85/33e7b9aa420413d5?lnk=st&q=transcode+ipod+video+linux&rnum=1&hl=en#33e7b9aa420413d5 Seems someone has managed to use ffmpeg to do it. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:20:53 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:20:53 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C28B83.5060405-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:51AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > > > This is what I find under /proc/asound/cards: > >># ls -l /proc/asound/cards > >>-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:06 /proc/asound/cards > This is what I find under /proc/asound/card0: > > # ls -l /proc/asound/card0 > total 0 > dr-xr-xr-x 9 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 . > dr-xr-xr-x 5 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 .. > dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 codec97#0 > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 id > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 intel8x0 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 oss_mixer > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0c > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0p > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm1c > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm2c > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm3c > dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm4p > > When I just check under /proc/asound/ only the following files are blue: > I82801DBICH4 -> card0; card0; oss; and seq 'cat /proc/asound/cards' lists the currently recognized cards. > Again, I am still novice, so apologies for not knowing how to interpret > this information.... Well that certainly looks like an intel i810 sound chip.A Do you have the module snd-usb-audio loaded at boot? What does 'aplay -l' list for available devices for playback? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:34:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:34:02 -0500 Subject: a sort of exam... In-Reply-To: <43C17F2C.6080703-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1765C.6090709@rogers.com> <43C17F2C.6080703@istop.com> Message-ID: <20060109163401.GI26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 04:07:56PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Right, I was given an opportunity to perform a test for a new possible > job. My question is of the kind of young age students ask: please help > me to solve this problem ;) > > Since however my life is largely at stake (yes) I do not hesitate to ask > for help. I promisse: I will write that down that the answer was due to > the help from TLUG :) > > OK, here the question is, with explanation (I cite everything exactly as > I read): > > ==citation starts== > > Question: At the foundation of X server Clients how do you > "PROGRAMMATICALLY" create and run multiple and individual X window > instances? > > Explanation: What we nees is to create a multiple instance of X server > simultanous on the same computer. Each instance should use a different > Display. How create them PROGRAMMATICALLY and manage each session. > Technically in gross steps, how would you create/implement the basis of > a terminal server using X. > > ==citation ends== > > No, I do not know what "programmatically" means. But the answer must be > made correct any way. > > Any ideas how to approach the problem? there is no time left... /etc//X11/xdm/Xservers: :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt7 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt8 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp :2 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt9 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp :3 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt10 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp :4 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt11 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp :5 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt12 -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp Now you will get a display on each of those VTs with a different display number. You can login on each, or you could probably configure them to auto login to a specific session (at least kdm can). The question is also wrong, since it is 'individual X instances' not 'indivudual X window sessions'. An X window is the window you have for an X application. The whole system is either X or The X Windowing System. And of course a terminal server would NOT be running multiple X servers on it, it would just be a session manager. The X servers would be running on the thin clients instead, in which case all you want is an x display manger like gdm/kdm/xdm which allows remote connections, and an X server on each client set to query the server for a session. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:58:54 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:58:54 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C291DF.3010504-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> Message-ID: <43C2964E.2040701@gmx.de> Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:51AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: >> >>> This is what I find under /proc/asound/cards: >>> >>>>> # ls -l /proc/asound/cards >>>>> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:06 /proc/asound/cards >>>>> >>> This is what I find under /proc/asound/card0: >>> >>> # ls -l /proc/asound/card0 >>> total 0 >>> dr-xr-xr-x 9 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 . >>> dr-xr-xr-x 5 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 .. >>> dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 codec97#0 >>> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 id >>> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 intel8x0 >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 oss_mixer >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0c >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0p >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm1c >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm2c >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm3c >>> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm4p >>> >>> When I just check under /proc/asound/ only the following files are >>> blue: I82801DBICH4 -> card0; card0; oss; and seq >>> >> >> 'cat /proc/asound/cards' lists the currently recognized cards. >> >> >>> Again, I am still novice, so apologies for not knowing how to >>> interpret this information.... >>> >> >> Well that certainly looks like an intel i810 sound chip.A >> >> Do you have the module snd-usb-audio loaded at boot? >> >> What does 'aplay -l' list for available devices for playback? >> >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------ >> > Here is what I get using 'cat /proc/asound/cards': > > 0 [I82801DBICH4 ]: ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4 > Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with STAC9750,51 at 0xf0080400, > irq 5 > > This is what 'aplay -l' gives me: > > **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** > card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 0: Intel ICH [Intel > 82801DB-ICH4] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 4: Intel ICH - > IEC958 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4 - IEC958] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > > When I check under /dev/snd/ I do not find an entry for usb-audio, so > I assume this means that the snd-usb-audio module is not loading at > boot. Is this the problem? > > Thanks for your help, Len, > > Dominic > Ok, forget the last above comment. My mistake---usb-audio is a module, it is not in /dev/snd. I found it under /lib/modules/2.6.13-15.7-default/kernel/sound/usb. When I type in the command 'ls -l /lib/modules/2.6.13-15.7-default/kernel/sound/usb' I get: total 136 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 98896 Nov 29 16:54 snd-usb-audio.ko -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19864 Nov 29 16:54 snd-usb-lib.ko drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 usx2y 'usx2y" is blue; snd-usb-audio.ko and snd-usb-lib.ko are black. hope this helps and thanks again, Dominic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 22:23:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:23:18 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109161809.GG26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060109161809.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060109222318.GA1511@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:18:09AM -0500, lsorense wrote: > A possible useful link: > http://groups.google.ca/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_frm/thread/bd0a98464bad5d85/33e7b9aa420413d5?lnk=st&q=transcode+ipod+video+linux&rnum=1&hl=en#33e7b9aa420413d5 > > Seems someone has managed to use ffmpeg to do it. I tried following the instructions on that page with a vob of a movie trailer I had lying around, and ffmpeg segfaulted. So i upgraded to the version of ffmpeg available for debian unstable, and then it ran just fine, and generated a small .mov file. File says this: austinpowers.vob: MPEG sequence, v2, program multiplex austinpowers.vob.ipod.mov: Apple QuickTime movie (unoptimized) Mplayer says: Playing austinpowers.vob.ipod.mov. Quicktime/MOV file format detected. -------------- MOV track #0: 1138 chunks, 1138 samples MOV: Found MPEG4 movie Elementary Stream Descriptor atom (79)! Image size: 320 x 240 (24 bpp) Display size: 320 x 240 Fourcc: mp4v Codec: 'xvid' -------------- MOV track #1: 1771 chunks, 1771 samples Audio bits: 16 chans: 2 rate: 48000 Audio extra header: len=91 fcc=0x77617665 MOV: Found MPEG4 audio Elementary Stream Descriptor atom (39)! Fourcc: mp4a -------------- MOV: longest streams: A: #1 (1771 samples) V: #0 (1138 samples) VIDEO: [mp4v] 320x240 24bpp 29.970 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) ========================================================================== Opening audio decoder: [faad] AAC (MPEG2/4 Advanced Audio Coding) FAAD: compressed input bitrate missing, assuming 128kbit/s! AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 128.0 kbit/8.33% (ratio: 16000->192000) Selected audio codec: [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio) decoder) ========================================================================== ========================================================================== Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family Selected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4) ========================================================================== So it appears to be in mp4v at 320x240, with aac audio. Might work then. This was done with ffmpeg version cvs20060101-0.2. The commands were: export file=austinpowers.vob ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 1 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.pass1.mov ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 2 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.ipod.mov rm -f $file.pass1.mov I don't have an ipod to test on, so who knows if it is right or not. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 05:05:21 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:05:21 -0500 Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something Message-ID: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> As many of you know I have been using linux since kernel version 1, and have recently attempted a compile for a particular set of modules, after not having done this for a long time. I noticed this when I did a "make help": Configuration targets: config - Update current config utilising a line- oriented program menuconfig - Update current config utilising a menu based program xconfig - Update current config utilising a QT based front-end gconfig - Update current config utilising a GTK based front-end oldconfig - Update current config utilising a provided .config as base randconfig - New config with random answer to all options defconfig - New config with default answer to all options allmodconfig - New config selecting modules when possible allyesconfig - New config where all options are accepted with yes allnoconfig - New minimal config I mean *really*, what masochist would choose "randconfig" as the config target? Can someone enlighten me on what purpose this option serves? Same goes for "allyesconfig". I can see a use for the rest of these. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 05:05:49 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:05:49 -0500 Subject: News Flash: Linux Robots are coming! Message-ID: <1136869549.1699.70.camel@holden.weait.net> Dear All, The KWLUG saw a presentation of RoboSapien, RoboRaptor and RoboPet at their December meeting. Some wondered how this presentation was "on topic"? The next generation of RoboSapien was demonstrated to CES last week. It looks exceptionally cool, with all of RS2's features, plus color video, color LCD display, stereo sound, etc http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/wowwee-reveals-next-gen-robosapien-two-others . . . but RS Media has a secret. I have heard a rumour that RS Media will run Linux. I'll post details and confirmation as I get it. That is all for now. Talk amongst yourselves. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 05:37:40 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:37:40 -0500 Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: Testing purposes.... -Joseph- On 1/10/06, Paul King wrote: > As many of you know I have been using linux since kernel version 1, and > have recently attempted a compile for a particular set of modules, after > not having done this for a long time. I noticed this when I did a "make > help": > > Configuration targets: > config - Update current config utilising a line- > oriented program > menuconfig - Update current config utilising a menu based > program > xconfig - Update current config utilising a QT based > front-end > gconfig - Update current config utilising a GTK based > front-end > oldconfig - Update current config utilising a > provided .config as base > randconfig - New config with random answer to all options > defconfig - New config with default answer to all > options > allmodconfig - New config selecting modules when possible > allyesconfig - New config where all options are accepted > with yes > allnoconfig - New minimal config > > I mean *really*, what masochist would choose "randconfig" as the config > target? Can someone enlighten me on what purpose this option serves? > Same goes for "allyesconfig". I can see a use for the rest of these. > > Paul King > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 05:49:19 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:49:19 -0500 Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 1/10/06, Paul King wrote: > As many of you know I have been using linux since kernel version 1, and > have recently attempted a compile for a particular set of modules, after > not having done this for a long time. I noticed this when I did a "make > help": > > Configuration targets: > config - Update current config utilising a line- > oriented program > menuconfig - Update current config utilising a menu based > program > xconfig - Update current config utilising a QT based > front-end > gconfig - Update current config utilising a GTK based > front-end > oldconfig - Update current config utilising a > provided .config as base > randconfig - New config with random answer to all options > defconfig - New config with default answer to all > options > allmodconfig - New config selecting modules when possible > allyesconfig - New config where all options are accepted > with yes > allnoconfig - New minimal config > > I mean *really*, what masochist would choose "randconfig" as the config > target? Can someone enlighten me on what purpose this option serves? > Same goes for "allyesconfig". I can see a use for the rest of these. All of those are reasonable for testing. randconfig means that random things get tried so that you have some chances of noticing conflicting options. Likewise, trying them all will show off conflicts... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 06:24:09 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:24:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <87lkxo7g8n.fsf@gmail.com> Kihara> That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell Kihara> how a class address look like. My understanding was that, if you Kihara> see a netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were Kihara> calling A and B respectively, then that is class system. That is Kihara> how my box is currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 I Kihara> thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 Kihara> transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am Kihara> very sorry for my ignorance by the way Kihara> William Kihara or William? The difference is that in the pre-CIDR world the actual address itself determined what the class was. That is, there existed numbers a1 and a2 such that networks with addresses between a1.0.0.0 and a2.0.0.0 were class A, and similarly b1, b2 for class B; everything else was class C. The fact that I can't remember what those numbers were also shows how long it has been. I remember that Solaris startup scripts assumed class addresses by default until quite recently (Solaris 8 still did, I'm quite sure). -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 08:30:02 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 03:30:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C1E793.4060903-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > For a server, there is a budget that was decided on by my predecessor who > jumped ship at the last minute. I can't say what it is, but there is enough > to build a fairly powerful whitebox (with backup components too) with as much > RAM as I can stuff in. Ah good to hear. >> Well I prefer Debian, including in situations like this but any full >> featured distro will be fine for the server. Use your favourite. > > Actually, I had thought of it, but as someone else noted, Ubuntu sounds like > it supports LTSP without any work whatsoever. That being said, I suppose > there isn't much to an "apt-get install lpst-server" now is there. I like > Debian more then Ubuntu anyways, so thanks for the tip. I can definiately say LTSP is no trouble at all with Debian. Apt-get the packages and run ltspadmin. >> You mean for the LAN? As fast as you can make it. 100MBit switches are >> cheap as chips here so put a couple and lots of Cat5e cable in your >> suitcase. > > Just switches right? Sounds like any dlink/smc/linksys jobby will do the Yep. Low end home stuff will work fine for the number of clients you are talking about. If you had a big budget I'd suggest higher quality components but even the limited budget the home stuff will do. If you can split the thin clients across multiple subnets & switches. Given the number of clients we're talking about a couple of switches will be fine. If you can't manage this, don't worry. > trick just fine. Most hub/switch combinations (home routers I mean?) can be > put into switch mode as well? Any modern home router should start in switch mode. You really don't want the thin clients exposed to the external network though so keen them off the router :) Remember too that where true thin clients are concerned the server doesn't actually need to route data. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 11:38:03 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:38:03 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 In-Reply-To: <1136852135.14761.16.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <1136852135.14761.16.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: <000601c615da$5197e240$81fbc645@unipc> Is there a place to park? Hopefully cheap or free? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Drew Sullivan Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:16 PM To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 Date: Tuesday January 10, 2006 Time: 7:30 pm Topic: SSH Mysteries Revealed Live! Speaker: Robert Brockway Description: Robert will take us through the mysteries of ssh live and exclusive at a GTALUG meeting. The talk will cover the ssh protocol and the OpenSSH client and server. The topics covered will include: * Introduction * What is ssh * The history of ssh * Meaty Stuff * Advantages and disadvantages of ssh vs the alternatives * Generating RSA and DSA keys using ssh-keygen * Use of compression (how, when, why) * Use of ssh-agent * Use of agent forwarding and X11 forwarding * Use of ssh tunnels * Use of misc ssh options * Restricting commands that may be executed through ssh * Discussion of allowing ssh directly as root * Theory * How the ssh protocol negotiates a connection * Question & Answer * A chance to ask questions about ssh (or anything else really) Speaker Bio Originally from Australia, Robert has been living in Toronto since 2003 with his Jamaican-Canadian wife. Robert has been using Unix since 1992, Linux since 1994 and uses ssh day in and day out. Robert has been running Linux exclusively on the desktop since 1996. If you get a chance, ask Robert to describe running X-Window in 4Mb of RAM on a 486DX-33. Robert is a founding director and the CEO of OpenTrend Solutions Ltd a Toronto based open source consultancy with clients in North America, Europe and Australia. Robert loves open source, open standards, thin clients, 80s pop & rock music, hiking and roller blading. He dislikes dictatorships, attacks on free speech and most of all pumpkin. Robert is currently researching the possibility of links between high levels of pumpkin consumption and the erosion of the rule of law in developed nations. Location Room GB220, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 University of Toronto Map http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=35+St +George+St,+Toronto,+ON&hl=en -- Drew Sullivan Systems Software -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 12:51:42 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:42 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: further problems In-Reply-To: <20060109170504.GJ26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> <43C2964E.2040701@gmx.de> <20060109170504.GJ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C3ADDE.8070609@gmx.de> Ok, now I have plugged in my USB speakers, I have entered 'modprobe snd-usb-audio' and here is what I get: *linux:~ # aplay -l* **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 0: Intel ICH [Intel 82801DB-ICH4] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 4: Intel ICH - IEC958 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4 - IEC958] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 1: Speaker [Logitech USB Speaker], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 *linux:~ # lsmod|grep snd* snd_usb_audio 75712 0 snd_usb_lib 16384 1 snd_usb_audio snd_rawmidi 24864 1 snd_usb_lib snd_hwdep 8992 1 snd_usb_audio snd_pcm_oss 59168 0 snd_mixer_oss 18944 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_seq 51984 0 snd_seq_device 8588 2 snd_rawmidi,snd_seq snd_intel8x0 33504 0 snd_ac97_codec 91004 1 snd_intel8x0 snd_ac97_bus 2432 1 snd_ac97_codec snd_pcm 93064 4 snd_usb_audio,snd_pcm_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec snd_timer 24452 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm snd 60420 12 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer usbcore 112512 6 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,usbhid,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd soundcore 9184 1 snd snd_page_alloc 10632 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm *linux:~ # lsmod|grep audio* snd_usb_audio 75712 0 snd_usb_lib 16384 1 snd_usb_audio snd_hwdep 8992 1 snd_usb_audio snd_pcm 93064 4 snd_usb_audio,snd_pcm_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec snd 60420 12 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer usbcore 112512 6 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,usbhid,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd *linux:~ # cat /proc/asound/cards* 0 [I82801DBICH4 ]: ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with STAC9750,51 at 0xf0080400, irq 5 1 [Speaker ]: USB-Audio - Logitech USB Speaker Logitech Logitech USB Speaker at usb-0000:00:1d.0-2, full speed ------ In addition, both Kmix and Kamix recognize the speakers, and in both instances PCM is at full blast. But still the speakers don't play. A further development. I tried setting the xine engine in amarok to alsa, which allows you to set the audio output. I thought I could enter 'hw=1' and solve my problem that way. But now, everytime i try to use alsa, I get the warning 'amarok was unable to initialize any audio-drivers," and amarok promptly crashes. And when I leave the xine engine on "auto detect" mode, I get no sound output at all anymore. Amarok now only works using the aRts engine, but in that case the sound only comes out of the computers built-in speakers. Any advice? Dominic > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 13:00:51 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:00:51 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001101c615e5$e29e0a20$81fbc645@unipc> The class should never be determined by the mask but by the range in which the ip address falls. The standard masks are class a 255.0.0.0 class b 255.255.0.0 and class c 255.255.255.0 these are also known as classful. A classless mask such as 255.255.192.0 can be used with an ip that is in the class a or b but not with class c. Classless is useful when subnetting host bit into subnets. For class a ip with a mask of 255.255.192.0 The first 8 bits 255 are the network bits The next 10 bits 255.192 is the subnet bits And the 14 last bits would be the host bits. For class b ip with a mask of 255.255.192.0 The first 16 bits 255.255 are the network bits The next 2 bits 192 is the subnet bits And the 14 would be the host bits. Class c can't use 255.255.192.0 because class c has to have at least a standard mask of 255.255.255.0 You could use a classless mask of 255.255.255.192 to subnet the last octet. If not done properly there could be overlapping. That's my 2 cents or bits Joseph -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kihara Muriithi Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 11:38 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CIDR - networking > Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why are > you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, > I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been obsolete > for years. That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very sorry for my ignorance by the way William On 1/8/06, James Knott wrote: > Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi > > Thanks for the response. I suspected most modern host will work > > with CIRD, but haven't seen it used widely. Since it has been over > > 10 years since CIRD came to existance, this should not be the case > > and I wondered whether there was a technical reason behind it and > > hence the email Now Knott, since you have experience with this set > > up, have you came across a problem that you can attribute to CIRD > > misconfiguration? What were the symptoms, just in case I ever happen > > to come across that issue? Allen mentioned an instance where CIRD > > can not be used and this may lead to a situation where classed and > > classless system network. > > One last thing, am I correct to assume one identify whether a host > > is configured with class or classless system by using "ifconfig" and > > "route" commands and then looking at the netmask? > > As I understand it, if you have a subnet mask where you can specify > how many bit to use, you have CIRD. As I don't ever recall working > with a non CIDR system, I can't speak to any problems caused by it. > Bear in mind, that any CIDR system can be configured to behave like a > non CIDR system. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 14:32:14 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:32:14 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: further problems In-Reply-To: <43C3ADDE.8070609-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> <43C2964E.2040701@gmx.de> <20060109170504.GJ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C3ADDE.8070609@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20060110143213.GK26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:51:42AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > Ok, now I have plugged in my USB speakers, I have entered 'modprobe > snd-usb-audio' and here is what I get: > > *linux:~ # aplay -l* > > **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** > card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 0: Intel ICH [Intel > 82801DB-ICH4] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 4: Intel ICH - IEC958 > [Intel 82801DB-ICH4 - IEC958] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > card 1: Speaker [Logitech USB Speaker], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 So it sees all the right devices. > *linux:~ # lsmod|grep snd* > > snd_usb_audio 75712 0 > snd_usb_lib 16384 1 snd_usb_audio > snd_rawmidi 24864 1 snd_usb_lib > snd_hwdep 8992 1 snd_usb_audio > snd_pcm_oss 59168 0 > snd_mixer_oss 18944 1 snd_pcm_oss > snd_seq 51984 0 > snd_seq_device 8588 2 snd_rawmidi,snd_seq > snd_intel8x0 33504 0 > snd_ac97_codec 91004 1 snd_intel8x0 > snd_ac97_bus 2432 1 snd_ac97_codec > snd_pcm 93064 4 snd_usb_audio,snd_pcm_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec > snd_timer 24452 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm > snd 60420 12 > snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer > usbcore 112512 6 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,usbhid,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd > soundcore 9184 1 snd > snd_page_alloc 10632 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm > > > > *linux:~ # lsmod|grep audio* > snd_usb_audio 75712 0 > snd_usb_lib 16384 1 snd_usb_audio > snd_hwdep 8992 1 snd_usb_audio > snd_pcm 93064 4 snd_usb_audio,snd_pcm_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec > snd 60420 12 > snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer > usbcore 112512 6 snd_usb_audio,snd_usb_lib,usbhid,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd > > > *linux:~ # cat /proc/asound/cards* > > 0 [I82801DBICH4 ]: ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4 > Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with STAC9750,51 at 0xf0080400, irq 5 > 1 [Speaker ]: USB-Audio - Logitech USB Speaker > Logitech Logitech USB Speaker at usb-0000:00:1d.0-2, full speed So it sees both your onboard sound chip, and your usb speakers. Now you just have to tell applications to use card 1 not card 0 when playing sound, since of course by default everything uses card 0. > In addition, both Kmix and Kamix recognize the speakers, and in both > instances PCM is at full blast. But still the speakers don't play. > > A further development. I tried setting the xine engine in amarok to > alsa, which allows you to set the audio output. I thought I could enter > 'hw=1' and solve my problem that way. But now, everytime i try to use > alsa, I get the warning 'amarok was unable to initialize any > audio-drivers," and amarok promptly crashes. And when I leave the xine > engine on "auto detect" mode, I get no sound output at all anymore. > Amarok now only works using the aRts engine, but in that case the sound > only comes out of the computers built-in speakers. The simple solution is to do one of these: -Disable onboard sound in the bios, and hope linux won't find it anyhow. Then only usb sound is available -Make the usb driver load before the driver for the onboard sound. That way the USB speakers are card 0 and hence the default. -Create a .asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf file containing: pcm.!default { type hw card 1 } ctl.!default { type hw card 1 } That will set the default device to use to be card 1 rather than card 0. At least for alsa applications. What old OSS applications do, I am not sure. The first two options would take care of OSS programs too. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 14:44:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:44:24 -0500 Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060110144424.GL26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:05:21AM -0500, Paul King wrote: > As many of you know I have been using linux since kernel version 1, and > have recently attempted a compile for a particular set of modules, after > not having done this for a long time. I noticed this when I did a "make > help": > > Configuration targets: > config - Update current config utilising a line- > oriented program > menuconfig - Update current config utilising a menu based > program > xconfig - Update current config utilising a QT based > front-end > gconfig - Update current config utilising a GTK based > front-end > oldconfig - Update current config utilising a > provided .config as base > randconfig - New config with random answer to all options > defconfig - New config with default answer to all > options > allmodconfig - New config selecting modules when possible > allyesconfig - New config where all options are accepted > with yes > allnoconfig - New minimal config > > I mean *really*, what masochist would choose "randconfig" as the config > target? Can someone enlighten me on what purpose this option serves? > Same goes for "allyesconfig". I can see a use for the rest of these. randconfig is great for testing builds. Make a random config, see if it even builds. Catches syntax errors and other build problems in less used areas of the kernel, and catches some config dependancy issues that cause build failures. The all* options are probably also mostly for testing. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 15:02:56 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:02:56 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109222318.GA1511-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060109161809.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060109222318.GA1511@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060110150256.GA3184@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 05:23:18PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > This was done with ffmpeg version cvs20060101-0.2. > > The commands were: > export file=austinpowers.vob > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 1 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.pass1.mov > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 2 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.ipod.mov > rm -f $file.pass1.mov Hi Lennart, What's the reason for the two pass? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 15:47:29 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:47:29 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3BDAC0BF-852A-4ED2-90A7-4EA7E20FFA46@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 8-Jan-06, at 23:37, Kihara Muriithi wrote: >> Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why >> are >> you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, >> I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been >> obsolete >> for years. >> > That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a > class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a > netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and > B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is > currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 > I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 > transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very > sorry for my ignorance by the way > > William Class based networks have implicit netmasks based on the IP. Anywhere you see an explicit netmask, you have CIDR. For example, 10.0.0.0 is a class based network. 10.0.0.0/8 is the same network but with CIDR notation. You can find the breakdown of classes and netmasks in the RFC. http://rfc.net/rfc791.html#p24 __________________________________________________ Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDw9cSgfzn5SevSpoRAse9AKC64DnegeiaBBymftNPvVllKf3anACdGMSy TVuUDHtx0ZaqeYJycIJKPCU= =1xzG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 16:15:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:15:48 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060110150256.GA3184-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060109161809.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060109222318.GA1511@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060110150256.GA3184@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060110161548.GM26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 10:02:56AM -0500, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 05:23:18PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > This was done with ffmpeg version cvs20060101-0.2. > > > > The commands were: > > export file=austinpowers.vob > > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 1 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.pass1.mov > > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 2 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.ipod.mov > > rm -f $file.pass1.mov > > Hi Lennart, > > What's the reason for the two pass? According to the guy that suggested to commands, it uses the first pass as a reference for the second to generate better quality at the same bitrate. I suppose it lets it know when the hard high bit rate parts are going to be and when nothing changes so it can move bits around. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 16:22:54 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:22:54 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <3BDAC0BF-852A-4ED2-90A7-4EA7E20FFA46-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <43C11306.7090307@rogers.com> <20060108142307.GB1988@localhost> <43C16D5E.8020403@rogers.com> <3BDAC0BF-852A-4ED2-90A7-4EA7E20FFA46@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks a lot. The thread cleared my mis-understanding. I am now sure I have never come across a class based address, since they all had a netmask. I just happened to have seen only 255.0.0.0, 255.255.0.0 and 255.255.255.0 which lead to the confusion. William On 1/10/06, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 8-Jan-06, at 23:37, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > >> Then again, given the scarcity of non-CIDR systems these days, why > >> are > >> you so concerned with it? In the 12 years I've been working with IP, > >> I've never seen anything but CIDR. Address classes have been > >> obsolete > >> for years. > >> > > That sentence has homed at the problem. Its that I can't tell how a > > class address look like. My understanding was that, if you see a > > netmask like 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 on what they were calling A and > > B respectively, then that is class system. That is how my box is > > currently set up. ie 192.168.1.3 255.255.255.0 > > I thought CIRD carry a mask like 255.128.0.0? ie no clean 255 to 0 > > transition. How would I identify a non-CIDR if I see one? I am very > > sorry for my ignorance by the way > > > > William > > > Class based networks have implicit netmasks based on the IP. Anywhere > you see an explicit netmask, you have CIDR. > > For example, 10.0.0.0 is a class based network. 10.0.0.0/8 is the > same network but with CIDR notation. > > You can find the breakdown of classes and netmasks in the RFC. > > http://rfc.net/rfc791.html#p24 > > __________________________________________________ > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFDw9cSgfzn5SevSpoRAse9AKC64DnegeiaBBymftNPvVllKf3anACdGMSy > TVuUDHtx0ZaqeYJycIJKPCU= > =1xzG > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 18:03:39 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:03:39 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 In-Reply-To: <000601c615da$5197e240$81fbc645@unipc> References: <1136852135.14761.16.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <000601c615da$5197e240$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: You can park on the city streets south of campus most nights. east of spadina and south of college st. Give yourself some extra time to find a spot though. It will be $3.00 to cover the meter. -Joseph- On 1/10/06, Joseph wrote: > Is there a place to park? Hopefully cheap or free? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > Drew Sullivan > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:16 PM > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 > > Date: Tuesday January 10, 2006 > > Time: 7:30 pm > > Topic: SSH Mysteries Revealed Live! > > Speaker: Robert Brockway > > Description: > > Robert will take us through the mysteries of ssh live and exclusive at a > GTALUG meeting. The talk will cover the ssh protocol and the OpenSSH client > and server. The topics covered will include: > > * Introduction > * What is ssh > * The history of ssh > * Meaty Stuff > * Advantages and disadvantages of ssh vs the alternatives > * Generating RSA and DSA keys using ssh-keygen > * Use of compression (how, when, why) > * Use of ssh-agent > * Use of agent forwarding and X11 forwarding > * Use of ssh tunnels > * Use of misc ssh options > * Restricting commands that may be executed through ssh > * Discussion of allowing ssh directly as root > * Theory > * How the ssh protocol negotiates a connection > * Question & Answer > * A chance to ask questions about ssh (or anything else > really) > > Speaker Bio > > Originally from Australia, Robert has been living in Toronto since 2003 with > his Jamaican-Canadian wife. Robert has been using Unix since 1992, Linux > since 1994 and uses ssh day in and day out. Robert has been running Linux > exclusively on the desktop since 1996. If you get a chance, ask Robert to > describe running X-Window in 4Mb of RAM on a 486DX-33. > > Robert is a founding director and the CEO of OpenTrend Solutions Ltd a > Toronto based open source consultancy with clients in North America, Europe > and Australia. > > Robert loves open source, open standards, thin clients, 80s pop & rock > music, hiking and roller blading. He dislikes dictatorships, attacks on free > speech and most of all pumpkin. Robert is currently researching the > possibility of links between high levels of pumpkin consumption and the > erosion of the rule of law in developed nations. > > Location > > Room GB220, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > University of Toronto > > Map > > http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=35+St > +George+St,+Toronto,+ON&hl=en > > > -- > Drew Sullivan > Systems Software > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 18:17:40 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:17:40 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c61612$249477d0$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Kubik Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:04 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RE: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 You can park on the city streets south of campus most nights. east of spadina and south of college st. Give yourself some extra time to find a spot though. It will be $3.00 to cover the meter. -Joseph- On 1/10/06, Joseph wrote: > Is there a place to park? Hopefully cheap or free? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-admin-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On > Behalf Of Drew Sullivan > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:16 PM > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting: Tuesday January 10, 2006 > > Date: Tuesday January 10, 2006 > > Time: 7:30 pm > > Topic: SSH Mysteries Revealed Live! > > Speaker: Robert Brockway > > Description: > > Robert will take us through the mysteries of ssh live and exclusive at > a GTALUG meeting. The talk will cover the ssh protocol and the OpenSSH > client and server. The topics covered will include: > > * Introduction > * What is ssh > * The history of ssh > * Meaty Stuff > * Advantages and disadvantages of ssh vs the alternatives > * Generating RSA and DSA keys using ssh-keygen > * Use of compression (how, when, why) > * Use of ssh-agent > * Use of agent forwarding and X11 forwarding > * Use of ssh tunnels > * Use of misc ssh options > * Restricting commands that may be executed through ssh > * Discussion of allowing ssh directly as root > * Theory > * How the ssh protocol negotiates a connection > * Question & Answer > * A chance to ask questions about ssh (or anything else > really) > > Speaker Bio > > Originally from Australia, Robert has been living in Toronto since > 2003 with his Jamaican-Canadian wife. Robert has been using Unix since > 1992, Linux since 1994 and uses ssh day in and day out. Robert has > been running Linux exclusively on the desktop since 1996. If you get a > chance, ask Robert to describe running X-Window in 4Mb of RAM on a 486DX-33. > > Robert is a founding director and the CEO of OpenTrend Solutions Ltd a > Toronto based open source consultancy with clients in North America, > Europe and Australia. > > Robert loves open source, open standards, thin clients, 80s pop & rock > music, hiking and roller blading. He dislikes dictatorships, attacks > on free speech and most of all pumpkin. Robert is currently > researching the possibility of links between high levels of pumpkin > consumption and the erosion of the rule of law in developed nations. > > Location > > Room GB220, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > University of Toronto > > Map > > http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=35+St > +George+St,+Toronto,+ON&hl=en > > > -- > Drew Sullivan > Systems Software > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 10 23:21:13 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:21:13 -0500 Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: <20060110144424.GL26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> <20060110144424.GL26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1136935273.25021.15.camel@gandalf> On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 09:44 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:05:21AM -0500, Paul King wrote: > > I mean *really*, what masochist would choose "randconfig" as the config > > target? Can someone enlighten me on what purpose this option serves? > > Same goes for "allyesconfig". I can see a use for the rest of these. > > randconfig is great for testing builds. Make a random config, see if it > even builds. Catches syntax errors and other build problems in less > used areas of the kernel, and catches some config dependancy issues that > cause build failures. I am still not sure why I would not just choose my options and test my own build. Wouldn't the error messages generated thereby give me more useful info? It is entirely possible that randconfig would mostly select options that I wouldn't wish to use anyway, and would generate error messages on files I would never compile in to begin with. You also don't know if a random config will really auto-select the less-used options if that is what you are checking. It sounds to me that the only useful option left would be for kernel programmers to test out their new source code to see if anything blows up on them. Or for ordinary Linux users to test kernel versions in the "odd" series (2.1, 2.3, 2.5, etc) to see if they are safe to use. Since mine is 2.6, there would be less of a need for that. > > The all* options are probably also mostly for testing. Thanks to everyone for your replies. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 00:41:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:41:40 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <001101c615e5$e29e0a20$81fbc645@unipc> References: <001101c615e5$e29e0a20$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <43C45444.1060303@rogers.com> Joseph wrote: > The class should never be determined by the mask but by the range in which > the ip address falls. I thought that the old class addresses didn't have a sub net mask and it's that SNM, the enables classless addresses. That is, no mask, no CIDR. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 01:42:06 2006 From: ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Nick Davey) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:42:06 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <43C45444.1060303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <001101c615e5$e29e0a20$81fbc645@unipc> <43C45444.1060303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <441F94C8-F52B-4931-ABFA-6BB1792090F3@cogeco.ca> Older protocols that were classful, such as RIP v1 did not transmit the subnet mask with the IP address, however there were still subnet masks of 255.0.0.0, 255.255.0.0, etc. On 10-Jan-06, at 7:41 PM, James Knott wrote: > Joseph wrote: >> The class should never be determined by the mask but by the range >> in which >> the ip address falls. > > I thought that the old class addresses didn't have a sub net mask and > it's that SNM, the enables classless addresses. That is, no mask, > no CIDR. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 02:05:31 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:05:31 -0500 Subject: About teaching OSS and the board getting "active" :( Message-ID: <200601102105.31546.marc@lijour.net> Hi today I got from one technician my school board is about to rule out all my software (StarOffice/OOo, Eclipse, Subversion, Dev-C++, Firefox, etc.) within a week or two. Still under shock, I ask as politely as I can, what is the reason they'd want to wipe out the software I teach and all my courses are written with. After the first response, which is with no surprise "because we don't support it" (if I care), I get a rough explanation of their move to Active Directory and how they will beautifully handle thousands of users in a mega-network (if I care). Humm.. I let my direction know about it and we will see what happens... marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 03:52:54 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:52:54 -0500 Subject: (Open)SSH codebase Message-ID: <20060111035254.GA12482@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> To answer a question that was raised at the TLUG meeting... the history of OpenSSH development is given here: http://www.openssh.com/history.html The derivation from an early version of Tatu Ylonnen's SSH, and work on an fork from a rediscovery of that early version, are properly credited. The implication of their first paragraph is clearly that there is still some of Ylonnen's original code left in the current OpenSSH -- pretty amazing, considering the rigour of OpenBSD code audits and the lengths to which the development team go to ensure security. Whether this is "enough" credit to the early coders is, of course, quite another matter altogether. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 04:24:40 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:24:40 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060110150256.GA3184-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060110150256.GA3184@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: handbrake, but it's a real pain to set up dave > _________________________________________________________________ Don't just Search. Find! http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/default.aspx The new MSN Search! Check it out! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 05:18:07 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org: OANDA job description] In-Reply-To: <20060104215147.GA3472-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104215147.GA3472@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060111051808.72688.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> we are employers NOT social workers! I think its time some emplotyers realise their social responsibility. drpcdr.ca ------------------------------------ Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? If So How can I get such a CD? Will it run on my ol Pentium 1, 200 MHZ babe? I tried that with old dos games once and found that of 500 downloaded games and 70 games already collected, 90 worked from CDROM, 150 worked altogether. Even so some files were written to the desktop running Windows 98SE. The shortcuts to the games popup as a webpage containing links to the games on CDROM. Here's the HTML code:

PLAY ONLY 90 GAMES DIRECTLY FROM CD!

WARNING! SOME GAMES PLAYED FROM CD WILL WRITE TEMP FILES TO DESKTOP!

123 Free Solitaire
2D Digger
3D Dominoes
AbooFun
Afro Geography
All Star Air Hockey
Arasan Chess
Arcade
Around The World
BackGammon
Battle Chess 4000s
Big 8 Solitaire
Black Jack
Black Jak
Blinky
Bot
Bounty Hunter
Ball Swapper
Bubble
Bubble Girl
Challenge Pool
Checkers
Chess Battle
Championship Spades
Claus
ClickTris
Cribbage
Cubik's Rube
Danyet
Desktop Destroyer
D Gammon
Dope Wars
Dweep Demo
Eagle
English Grammar Tutor
Euchre
Euro Geography
Europe
E Words
Flak
Fours
Free Cell
French Box
French MP3
Frog
Grandpa
Hangaroo
HangMan Bible
HTMLTutor
Jetsons
JumBall
Kung FU Kim
Kitty
Letters
Mahjongg
Mario
Mole
Monopoly
Moz Pong
Mr Matt
Mine Sweeper
Opti Geometric
PC Basics Tutor
Pet Wings
Pongomania
Pool
Rain Man
Saddam
Same
Scrabble
Sea Battle
Solitaire
Space Invaders
Space Invaders 2
Spanish Tutor
Super Mario 1
Super Mario 2
Stream Bolt
Tennis 2001
Tetris
Tic Tac Toe
Troy 2000
Typing Animated
Virtual Dragon
V-Racer
Widow
Wilkanoid
Win Chess
Win Hoops
Worms
WWWeb Dictionary
X and O
Yahtzii
Yummy
--- William Park wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 03:02:14PM -0500, > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Assets: > > Experience building HA clusters using Solaris > tools (IP Multipathing, TrafficManager) > > DB2 database admin > > Hey, not fair! That means, they only want those who > recently got > laidoff from Sun and IBM. :-) > > -- > William Park , Toronto, > Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) > drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 05:21:11 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:21:11 -0500 Subject: Adding one or two mods to an existing /lib/modules Message-ID: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this... I was wondering how it is possible for me to compile and install only a few kernel modules and add them to already-existing modules under /lib/modules for the same kernel version. My situation is that under Fedora 3, it has decided for me in its precompiled RPM that it will only offer me a fixed assortment of modules, but lacking in some other modules I need (such as ntfs.ko). Let's say I have downloaded the source for the same kernel version (which I have done), and did a "make modules". I then discover, of course, that tons of modules compiled in addition to the ones I wanted. And, all I want to do is to add one or two modules of the same version to the /lib/modules/ tree. But doing insmod for this module will not load it, because there is no dependency entry. How is this problem overcome? I can't find anything in the kernel docs about loading one or two extra modules to an existing tree and updating the dependencies. And of course there are other things I probably haven't thought of. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 05:31:37 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:31:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Job posting: sysadmin position In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060111053137.34318.qmail@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> pbsdrive.com sucks it does not load in firefox 1.0 browser it says to download plugin drpcdr.ca --- John Vetterli wrote: > The company I work for is looking to hire a > sysadmin-type person. The job > involves working with both windows and linux > machines (mostly debian, but > some older redhat machines as well), both in our > office and remotely. > > You can find details at: > http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?OrderNum=1786666&Source=JobPosting > > For more info on our company: > http://www.pbsdrive.com > > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 05:39:33 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:39:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs at novell In-Reply-To: <43BAEF00.2090909-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43BAEF00.2090909@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060111053933.79949.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Aren't they in Brampton too? Don't they always downsize? What to do when jobs are being exported overseas? drpcdr.ca --- Paul Sutton wrote: > Hi > > I know this is off topic again, does anyone know who > to contact at > Novell regarding job vacancies, I thought about > sending my resume to > them to ask if they had anything, I have an address > for their Markham > office, in Toronto, but thats about it, does that > office have a human > resources department? > > Thanks > > Paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 05:48:52 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:48:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <43AA8302.1030005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43AA8302.1030005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060111054852.90046.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> its plain ol xenophobia Canadians and Americans are Xenophobic After one has become Canadianized by canadian experience only then can the newbie in Canada FIT IN! drpcdr.ca --- James Knott wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, paul sutton wrote: > > > >> Thanks, I have one in pdf on my personal > website, will update and > >> post there, and put a link, and perhaps > summerise on the list, > >> otherwise it could end up as a big post. > > > > Hi Paul. See you are showing clue already - a big > plus :) > > > > I do have a serious reason for posting. Don't get > disillusioned if you > > don't find IT work here as easily as you thought > you might (or as easily > > as you did at home). Many Canadian companies seek > "Canadian experience". > > Whenever I hear about that, I have to wonder how > Canadian computers > differ from those in other countries.. What's really > disgusting is that > at a time when we're short of doctors in this > province, immigrant > doctors are driving cabs or flipping burgers! Why > isn't there some sort > of supervised work program, to enable them to get > started? > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 06:16:55 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:16:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Adding one or two mods to an existing /lib/modules In-Reply-To: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> References: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <87r77fnvah.fsf@gmail.com> Paul> I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this... I was Paul> wondering how it is possible for me to compile and install only a Paul> few kernel modules and add them to already-existing modules under Paul> /lib/modules for the same kernel version. Paul> My situation is that under Fedora 3, it has decided for me in its Paul> precompiled RPM that it will only offer me a fixed assortment of Paul> modules, but lacking in some other modules I need (such as Paul> ntfs.ko). Paul> Let's say I have downloaded the source for the same kernel version Paul> (which I have done), and did a "make modules". I then discover, of Paul> course, that tons of modules compiled in addition to the ones I Paul> wanted. Paul> And, all I want to do is to add one or two modules of the same Paul> version to the /lib/modules/ tree. But doing Paul> insmod for this module will not load it, because there is no Paul> dependency entry. I don't do Red Hat, but: Can't you just (re)run "make (menu|x)config" and then "make modules" as you would with an unpackaged kernel? BTW under Debian I have only been using unpackaged kernels for a long time, it's easy - just download the source package and build it just as if it came from kernel.org. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 06:54:58 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:54:58 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060111054852.90046.qmail-Zk2FA+KkAC6vuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111054852.90046.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C4ABC2.20902@telly.org> Christopher Charles wrote: >its plain ol xenophobia > >Canadians and Americans are Xenophobic > > True, but no moreso than the Japanese, Jamaicans, French, Brazilians, or residents of most other countries. Arguably Canada's relatively high levels of diversity and low levels of nationalistic patriotism could mean that there's a little less xenophobia here than elsewhere, but it's a fairly universal sentiment. >After one has become Canadianized by canadian >experience only then can the newbie in Canada FIT IN! > > At least here you have the opportunity to be Canadianized. In many other countries the ability to totally integrate never really happens, even after multiple generations. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 09:01:38 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:01:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <43C4ABC2.20902-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C4ABC2.20902@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Evan Have you checked my website ... especially the employment section at the bottom? Observing my employment record, would you say I have integrated? Remember I have lived here for 30 years, most of my life. I went to high school here not to mention college and university. drpcdr.ca --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Charles wrote: > > >its plain ol xenophobia > > > >Canadians and Americans are Xenophobic > > > > > True, but no moreso than the Japanese, Jamaicans, > French, Brazilians, or > residents of most other countries. Arguably Canada's > relatively high > levels of diversity and low levels of nationalistic > patriotism could > mean that there's a little less xenophobia here than > elsewhere, but it's > a fairly universal sentiment. > > >After one has become Canadianized by canadian > >experience only then can the newbie in Canada FIT > IN! > > > > > At least here you have the opportunity to be > Canadianized. In many other > countries the ability to totally integrate never > really happens, even > after multiple generations. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:35:12 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:35:12 -0500 Subject: Adding one or two mods to an existing /lib/modules In-Reply-To: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> References: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060111143512.GA26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 12:21:11AM -0500, Paul King wrote: > I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this... I was > wondering how it is possible for me to compile and install only a few > kernel modules and add them to already-existing modules > under /lib/modules for the same kernel version. > > My situation is that under Fedora 3, it has decided for me in its > precompiled RPM that it will only offer me a fixed assortment of > modules, but lacking in some other modules I need (such as ntfs.ko). > > Let's say I have downloaded the source for the same kernel version > (which I have done), and did a "make modules". I then discover, of > course, that tons of modules compiled in addition to the ones I wanted. WHere did you download the kernel from? If it wasn't a package from your distribution, then it isn't the same version/patches. > And, all I want to do is to add one or two modules of the same version > to the /lib/modules/ tree. But doing insmod for this > module will not load it, because there is no dependency entry. > > How is this problem overcome? I can't find anything in the kernel docs > about loading one or two extra modules to an existing tree and updating > the dependencies. And of course there are other things I probably > haven't thought of. Simplest is probably yo get the source rpm for the kernel image, and changing the config to include the modules you want and building a new rpm from it. That way you have a complete working rpm for your kernel. I don't know if redhat has anything similar to debian's kernel-headers system, for building modules to match a given kernel, although that only really applies to out of tree kernel modules anyhow. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:37:38 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:37:38 -0500 Subject: [denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org: OANDA job description] In-Reply-To: <20060111051808.72688.qmail-dlhYhT34VQ+vuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104215147.GA3472@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060111051808.72688.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060111143738.GB26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 09:18:07PM -0800, Christopher Charles wrote: > we are employers NOT social workers! > > I think its time some emplotyers realise their social > responsibility. > > drpcdr.ca > ------------------------------------ > > Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? > If So How can I get such a CD? > > Will it run on my ol Pentium 1, 200 MHZ babe? [snip] I am confused. Am I lacking context, or is this spam, or some virus generated junk mail? Can someone explain that weird message? Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:47:25 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:47:25 -0500 Subject: [denise-YUuJdUf2yvMAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org: OANDA job description] In-Reply-To: <20060111143738.GB26907-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060104215147.GA3472@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060111051808.72688.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060111143738.GB26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C51A7D.90706@georgetown.wehave.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I am confused. Am I lacking context, or is this spam, or some virus > generated junk mail? > > Can someone explain that weird message? Me thinks there must be a misalignment in the planets. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:49:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:49:20 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060111090138.57331.qmail-dlhYhT34VQ+vuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <43C4ABC2.20902@telly.org> <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060111144920.GC26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 01:01:38AM -0800, Christopher Charles wrote: > Have you checked my website ... especially the > employment section at the bottom? Wow, that annoying scroling back and forth text thing still works in current browsers? I had hoped that one died around netscape 3 time. I guess it was never removed from the spec (assuming it was ever in the HTML spec). Then again I just found out recently that some browsers still support the blink tag. Yuck. Hmm, a few things on your resume puzzle me. I don't think Internet qualifies as an operating system. DOS is not a language. I know people always say to keep resumes less than 2 pages and short, but sometimes you can make it so short that it lacks a lot of useful detail. Yours doesn't really mention much of anything about what you did at any of the jobs. Perhaps not listing all the jobs, but instead giving some details on some of the more recent ones would be better. But then again I often get told my resumes aren't very good, so what do I know. :) > Observing my employment record, would you say I have > integrated? > Remember I have lived here for 30 years, most of my > life. I went to high school here not to mention > college and university. Well I have lived here for 18 years, went to highschool and university here, and feel perfectly integrated. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:56:05 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:56:05 -0500 Subject: Job posting: sysadmin position In-Reply-To: <20060111053137.34318.qmail-FHWIoGA2BbOvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111053137.34318.qmail@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't have a problem: http://www.pbsdrive.com Firefox 1.5 Suse Linux 9.2, mostly unpatched. -Joseph- On 1/11/06, Christopher Charles wrote: > pbsdrive.com sucks > it does not load in firefox 1.0 browser > it says to download plugin > > drpcdr.ca > > > --- John Vetterli wrote: > > > The company I work for is looking to hire a > > sysadmin-type person. The job > > involves working with both windows and linux > > machines (mostly debian, but > > some older redhat machines as well), both in our > > office and remotely. > > > > You can find details at: > > > http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?OrderNum=1786666&Source=JobPosting > > > > For more info on our company: > > http://www.pbsdrive.com > > > > JV > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > http://drpcdr.ca > Tel 416 398 DRPC > 71 Sentinel Rd > Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 > cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:58:31 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:58:31 -0500 Subject: Job posting: sysadmin position In-Reply-To: <20060111053137.34318.qmail-FHWIoGA2BbOvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111053137.34318.qmail@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C51D17.5020906@alteeve.com> Christopher Charles wrote: > pbsdrive.com sucks > it does not load in firefox 1.0 browser > it says to download plugin > > drpcdr.ca Perhaps, but what does this have to do with a job opening? Maybe hiring a Linux user will be what they need to make it work? Someone who uses firefox, even as a sysadmin, could help them fix things. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 14:21:49 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:49 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C5147D.1060908@sympatico.ca> dave morton wrote: > > handbrake, but it's a real pain to set up Is this the same handbrake I know of? For me, it just works, straight out of the box! Now dvd::rip, that was a pain to set up. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 15:44:39 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: has anyone played with these new Linux toys yet? Message-ID: <20060111154038.3E296EB35E@outbox.allstream.net> http://www.realmsys.com/solutions_mps.html http://www.projectblackdog.com/product.html These are one and the same. The Blackdog is the "lost leader" proof of concept device and the Personal Server is the real product being pushed. I'd be interested in hearing about any experience particularly about relative ease or difficulty adding custom open source software to it. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 16:15:23 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:15:23 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <20060111090138.57331.qmail-dlhYhT34VQ+vuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C52F1B.4040008@telly.org> [ I've renamed the subject to allow people to easily ignore this offtopic sub-thread ] Christopher Charles wrote: >Evan > >Have you checked my website ... especially the employment section at the bottom? > > No, and I'm not going to bother. You've trolled on this list for cheap page hits before. Tell me, _here_, the link is between what's on your website and xenophobia. >Observing my employment record, would you say I have integrated? > > Since I don't know you, it would be hard to tell from any employment record whether you have made an effort to integrate, let alone succeeeded. I know from first hand experience that some people choose not to integrate, an option that appears to be accepted more in Canada than in many other countries. (ie, how many police forces outside India have an option of turbans as official headgear?) A xenophobic society would be quite intolerant of such practise. >Remember I have lived here for 30 years, most of my life. > And I have known a number of Canadians who went to their graves knowing less than a dozen words of English, leaving children and siblings to assist interaction with the outside world. >I went to high school here not to mention college and university. > > College *and* university? That's very odd, most people choose one path or the other. Maybe you made some sub-optimal life choices, I don't know you well enough to make an opinion on that. However, I would suggest that blaming underachieving results on xenophobia is quite a stretch. Given the topic at hand, how much of all that education was in anthropology? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 16:57:21 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:57:21 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C52F1B.4040008-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43C52F1B.4040008@telly.org> Message-ID: <43C538F1.4060206@alteeve.com> Um, I know this is now labelled as off-topic and all but I still think it's a pretty unfortunate thread for TLUG. It's starting to remind me of a certain person who liked to stir up the list over the value of new users... It kicks up emotions without providing any real benefit or growth to the group. I am sorry that some people feel that Canada has given them an unfair shake. However it happens to native Canadians, too. Try being a woman in a traditionally male-dominated field or vice versa. Try being disabled... The point is, people get screwed over all the time for unjustifiable reasons. I certainly know that myself. What is important is how you view these challanges. If you take up a victim mentality, you are doomed, period. On the other hand, if you let rejection roll off you, you will be able to quickly move on to the next opportunity. In looking for a job, who cares if a dozen companies pass over you for some stupid reason? You only need one job and once you get it the rest are no issue. Hell, if your skills are good then the company that hires you will have an advantage over the companies that passed you over for superficial reasons and likely are more likely to grow and prosper. Look at it like a way of filtering out the cruft and finding the cream jobs. At any rate, Canada is a pretty damn good country to be a minority in, *compared* to other countries. It certainly isn't perfect and anyone who looks can find several examples of fault but don't tar the entire county with the same brush. Someone who does has taken on the mentality of those who've ignored them. Some people and companies kick ass, others suck. It's life... Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:27:31 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:27:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C52F1B.4040008-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C52F1B.4040008@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060111172731.59543.qmail@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FYI I speak the QUEEN'S english! I came to Canada after spending 10 years in England. Furthermore, I speak French too! --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > [ I've renamed the subject to allow people to easily > ignore this > offtopic sub-thread ] > > > Christopher Charles wrote: > > >Evan > > > >Have you checked my website ... especially the > employment section at the bottom? > > > > > No, and I'm not going to bother. You've trolled on > this list for cheap > page hits before. Tell me, _here_, the link is > between what's on your > website and xenophobia. > > >Observing my employment record, would you say I > have integrated? > > > > > Since I don't know you, it would be hard to tell > from any employment > record whether you have made an effort to integrate, > let alone > succeeeded. I know from first hand experience that > some people choose > not to integrate, an option that appears to be > accepted more in Canada > than in many other countries. (ie, how many police > forces outside India > have an option of turbans as official headgear?) A > xenophobic society > would be quite intolerant of such practise. > > >Remember I have lived here for 30 years, most of my > life. > > > And I have known a number of Canadians who went to > their graves knowing > less than a dozen words of English, leaving children > and siblings to > assist interaction with the outside world. > > >I went to high school here not to mention college > and university. > > > > > College *and* university? That's very odd, most > people choose one path > or the other. Maybe you made some sub-optimal life > choices, I don't know > you well enough to make an opinion on that. However, > I would suggest > that blaming underachieving results on xenophobia is > quite a stretch. > > Given the topic at hand, how much of all that > education was in anthropology? > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:31:29 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:31:29 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060111144920.GC26907-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C4ABC2.20902@telly.org> <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060111144920.GC26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/11/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 01:01:38AM -0800, Christopher Charles wrote: > > Observing my employment record, would you say I have > > integrated? > > Remember I have lived here for 30 years, most of my > > life. I went to high school here not to mention > > college and university. > > Well I have lived here for 18 years, went to highschool and university > here, and feel perfectly integrated. Integration is a two way street, requiring things of both parties involved. A xenophobic society (there are definitely plenty of those out there) won't accept outsiders. The fact that the RCMP has bent over backwards to accept foreign headgear like turbans is certainly not a data point that would support that Canada is particularly xenophobic. But individuals also need to participate in the integration, too. Presence is not enough; participation is necessary. And people (employers, especially) will be suspicious of those that appear to have had a particular lack of success at integrating... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:31:24 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:31:24 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C538F1.4060206-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111090138.57331.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43C52F1B.4040008@telly.org> <43C538F1.4060206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > [...] > At any rate, Canada is a pretty damn good country to be a minority > in, *compared* to other countries. It certainly isn't perfect and > anyone who looks can find several examples of fault but don't tar the > entire county with the same brush. Someone who does has taken on the > mentality of those who've ignored them. Some people and companies kick > ass, others suck. It's life... Very well said. Thanks, Madison! In the last three years I've had the opportunity to visit and do business in dozens of countries on six continents. The more I travel, the more I appreciate Toronto and Canada. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:31:34 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:31:34 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <20060111172731.59543.qmail-ejUP/pP7PiavuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111172731.59543.qmail@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C540F6.4030007@telly.org> Christopher Charles wrote: >FYI I speak the QUEEN'S english! > > This is not an issue of gay rights. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:38:50 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:38:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: <20060110144424.GL26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> <20060110144424.GL26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > randconfig is great for testing builds. Make a random config, see if it Absolutely. As someone who _has_ come across broken kernel config combos in the past I see great value in this option. At one point broken config combos were getting quite common. > even builds. Catches syntax errors and other build problems in less > used areas of the kernel, and catches some config dependancy issues that > cause build failures. > > The all* options are probably also mostly for testing. allmodconfig is useful in real life for people who want a modular kernel without the need to go through all of the options. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:40:46 2006 From: cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Charles) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:40:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Running Linux From CDROM Message-ID: <20060111174046.30439.qmail@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? If So How can I get such a CD? Will it run on my ol Pentium 1, 200 MHZ babe? Can i play DOS games on linux? I tried that with old dos games once and found that of 500 downloaded games and 70 games already collected, 90 worked from CDROM, 150 worked altogether. Even so some files were written to the desktop running Windows 98SE. The shortcuts to the games popup as a webpage containing links to the games on CDROM. Here's the HTML code:

PLAY ONLY 90 GAMES DIRECTLY FROM CD!

WARNING! SOME GAMES PLAYED FROM CD WILL WRITE TEMP FILES TO DESKTOP!

123 Free Solitaire
2D Digger
3D Dominoes
AbooFun
Afro Geography
All Star Air Hockey
Arasan Chess
Arcade
Around The World
BackGammon
Battle Chess 4000s
Big 8 Solitaire
Black Jack
Black Jak
Blinky
Bot
Bounty Hunter
Ball Swapper
Bubble
Bubble Girl
Challenge Pool
Checkers
Chess Battle
Championship Spades
Claus
ClickTris
Cribbage
Cubik's Rube
Danyet
Desktop Destroyer
D Gammon
Dope Wars
Dweep Demo
Eagle
English Grammar Tutor
Euchre
Euro Geography
Europe
E Words
Flak
Fours
Free Cell
French Box
French MP3
Frog
Grandpa
Hangaroo
HangMan Bible
HTMLTutor
Jetsons
JumBall
Kung FU Kim
Kitty
Letters
Mahjongg
Mario
Mole
Monopoly
Moz Pong
Mr Matt
Mine Sweeper
Opti Geometric
PC Basics Tutor
Pet Wings
Pongomania
Pool
Rain Man
Saddam
Same
Scrabble
Sea Battle
Solitaire
Space Invaders
Space Invaders 2
Spanish Tutor
Super Mario 1
Super Mario 2
Stream Bolt
Tennis 2001
Tetris
Tic Tac Toe
Troy 2000
Typing Animated
Virtual Dragon
V-Racer
Widow
Wilkanoid
Win Chess
Win Hoops
Worms
WWWeb Dictionary
X and O
Yahtzii
Yummy
http://drpcdr.ca Tel 416 398 DRPC 71 Sentinel Rd Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:43:21 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:43:21 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C540F6.4030007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111172731.59543.qmail@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43C540F6.4030007@telly.org> Message-ID: <43C543B9.8030009@alteeve.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Charles wrote: > >> FYI I speak the QUEEN'S english! >> >> > This is not an issue of gay rights. :D Well played, you get points. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:44:50 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:44:50 +0000 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C540EC.9020904-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> Message-ID: >Madison Kelly wrote: > >>[...] >> At any rate, Canada is a pretty damn good country to be a minority in, >>*compared* to other countries. It certainly isn't perfect and anyone who >>looks can find several examples of fault but don't tar the entire county >>with the same brush. Someone who does has taken on the mentality of those >>who've ignored them. Some people and companies kick ass, others suck. It's >>life... > >Very well said. Thanks, Madison! > >In the last three years I've had the opportunity to visit and do business >in dozens of countries on six continents. The more I travel, the more I >appreciate Toronto and Canada. > >- Evan While no place is perfect on earth, Canada is one of the best places to live. I realized the true value of Canada when I visited my home country last year.... Imran. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:53:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:53:54 -0500 Subject: Running Linux From CDROM In-Reply-To: <20060111174046.30439.qmail-mkMUYNPJeAOvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111174046.30439.qmail@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060111175354.GA18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 09:40:46AM -0800, Christopher Charles wrote: > Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? > If So How can I get such a CD? Don't send repeated messages, especially pointless random ones. If you want traffic to your website, try designing one that looks like it is from the last 5 years, and has some reasonable organization to it. Right now it is just a very long page of lots of unrelated things, mostly links to other places, and most of which have very little to do with each other. If pages have useful information, other people will link to it, and search engines with find it. My web page is amazingly dull, but has a few very useful pieces of information. It is not hard to find on google, and shows up at times I don't expect it to. Many cases I have no idea why people would have linked to it, but someone must find it useful. If you want to accomplish something, you have to do a lot of the work yourself. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:56:42 2006 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:56:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While no place is perfect on earth, Canada is one of the best places to live. I realized the true value of Canada when I visited my home country last year.... Imran. I think that sentiment is shared by many of us who have been lucky enough to immigrate here, whether many years ago or recently. -Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 17:59:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:59:43 -0500 Subject: Running Linux From CDROM In-Reply-To: <20060111174046.30439.qmail-mkMUYNPJeAOvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111174046.30439.qmail@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Apologies for top-posting... I don't want to mix my comments with his... Mr. Charles, you are spamming the list. In the message below, it is not evident that you have any honestly Linux-relevant question. And the bulk of the message looks as though it's information on how to "pirate" some old DOS games from somewhere, which probably involves breaking copyright and is terribly inappropriate. Keep this up and you'll get yourself booted off the mailing list. That's no matter of xenophobia; if you behave badly, you'll get the boot. On 1/11/06, Christopher Charles wrote: > Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? > If So How can I get such a CD? > > Will it run on my ol Pentium 1, 200 MHZ babe? > > Can i play DOS games on linux? > > I tried that with old dos games once and found that of > 500 downloaded games and 70 games already collected, > 90 worked from CDROM, 150 worked altogether. Even so > some files were written to the desktop running Windows > 98SE. > > The shortcuts to the games popup as a webpage > containing links to the games on CDROM. > > Here's the HTML code: > >

PLAY ONLY 90 GAMES DIRECTLY FROM CD!

>

WARNING! SOME GAMES PLAYED FROM CD WILL WRITE TEMP > FILES TO DESKTOP!

> > 123 Free > Solitaire
> 2D Digger
> 3D Dominoes
> AbooFun
> Afro > Geography
> All Star Air > Hockey
> Arasan > Chess
> Arcade
> Around The > World
> HREF="./Gaymz/BakGam/backgw32.exe">BackGammon
> HREF="./GAYMZ/BC2/BC4000V1/BC4000/BC4000.EXE">Battle > Chess 4000s
> Big 8 > Solitaire
> Black > Jack
> Black Jak
> HREF="./Gaymz/BlinkyBlink/blinky.exe">Blinky
> Bot
> Bounty Hunter
> Ball > Swapper
> Bubble
> HREF="./Gaymz/BubGirl_gold/bubgirl_gold16k.exe">Bubble > Girl
> Challenge > Pool
> HREF="./Gaymz/Checkers/CHECKERS.EXE">Checkers
> Chess > Battle
> Championship Spades
> Claus
> HREF="./Gaymz/ClickTris/ClickTris.exe">ClickTris
> Cribbage
> Cubik's > Rube
> Danyet
> Desktop Destroyer
> D Gammon
> Dope > Wars
> Dweep > Demo
> Eagle
> English Grammar > Tutor
> Euchre
> Euro > Geography
> HREF="./Gaymz/Europe/Europe!/Europe!.exe">Europe
> E Words
> Flak
> Fours
> Free > Cell
> French > Box
> French > MP3
> Frog
> Grandpa
> HREF="./Gaymz/Kangaroo/hangaroo.exe">Hangaroo
> HREF="./Gaymz/HangmanBible/HangmanBible.exe">HangMan > Bible
> HTMLTutor
> Jetsons
> JumBall
> Kung FU Kim
> Kitty
> Letters
> Mahjongg
> Mario
> Mole
> HREF="./GAYMZ/MONOPOLY/MONOPOLY.EXE">Monopoly
> Moz Pong
> Mr Matt
> Mine > Sweeper
> Opti > Geometric
> PC Basics > Tutor
> Pet > Wings
> Pongomania
> Pool
> Rain Man
> Saddam
> Same
> HREF="./Gaymz/WordJubbler/WordJubbler.exe">Scrabble
> Sea > Battle
> Solitaire
> Space > Invaders
> HREF="./Gaymz/SpaceInvaders/spaceinvaders.exe">Space > Invaders 2
> Spanish > Tutor
> Super Mario > 1
> Super Mario 2
> Stream > Bolt
> Tennis > 2001
> Tetris
> Tic Tac > Toe
> Troy 2000
> Typing > Animated
> Virtual > Dragon
> V-Racer
> Widow
> HREF="./Gaymz/Wilkanoid/wilkanoid.exe">Wilkanoid
> Win > Chess
> Win > Hoops
> Worms
> WWWeb > Dictionary
> X and O
> Yahtzii
> Yummy
> > http://drpcdr.ca > Tel 416 398 DRPC > 71 Sentinel Rd > Toronto, ON, M3J 1T1 > cccharlee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 18:02:05 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:02:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Running Linux From CDROM In-Reply-To: <20060111174046.30439.qmail-mkMUYNPJeAOvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111174046.30439.qmail@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060111180205.94587.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Charles wrote: > Does Linux run exclusively from a CD? It can be made to do so. Knoppix does this as, and Ubuntu can do this. There are other CD based distributions around, many based on Knoppix (not that hard to create a customized Knoppix for specific purposes as I noted here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8081). > If So How can I get such a CD? If you have a CD-ROM burner, and a high speed internet connection download a ISO file and burn away. If you don't have easy access to a CD-ROM burner and/or a high speed internet connection, ask around. Will you be at the next NewTLUG meeting? If so I could burn/bring a Knoppix disk and/or a set of Ubuntu disks. > Will it run on my ol Pentium 1, 200 MHZ babe? Conditionally yes. If the above box has at least 96 MB of RAM (preferably at least 128 MB) you can run Knoppix, HOWEVER you will want to change the default windowing system away from the default KDE to something like the ICE window manager (ICEwm is included with Knoppix and is not near as CPU demanding as KDE). > Can i play DOS games on linux? Under DOS emulation maybe, depends on the game. For games have a look at the likes of MAME (Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator), which lets you play all sorts of arcade game. MAME is available of Linux, DOS, MacOS, Windows, etc. > I tried that with old dos games once and found that > of > 500 downloaded games and 70 games already collected, > 90 worked from CDROM, 150 worked altogether. Even > so > some files were written to the desktop running > Windows > 98SE. > > The shortcuts to the games popup as a webpage > containing links to the games on CDROM. > > Here's the HTML code: > >

PLAY ONLY 90 GAMES DIRECTLY FROM CD!

>

WARNING! SOME GAMES PLAYED FROM CD WILL WRITE > TEMP > FILES TO DESKTOP!

> > 123 Free > Solitaire
> 2D Digger
> 3D > Dominoes
> HREF="./Gaymz/Aboofun/Aboofun.exe">AbooFun
> Afro > Geography
> All Star Air > Hockey
> Arasan > Chess
> Arcade
> Around The > World
> HREF="./Gaymz/BakGam/backgw32.exe">BackGammon
> HREF="./GAYMZ/BC2/BC4000V1/BC4000/BC4000.EXE">Battle > Chess 4000s
> Big 8 > Solitaire
> Black > Jack
> Black > Jak
> HREF="./Gaymz/BlinkyBlink/blinky.exe">Blinky
> Bot
> Bounty Hunter
> Ball > Swapper
> Bubble
> HREF="./Gaymz/BubGirl_gold/bubgirl_gold16k.exe">Bubble > Girl
> Challenge > Pool
> HREF="./Gaymz/Checkers/CHECKERS.EXE">Checkers
> Chess > Battle
> Championship Spades
> Claus
> HREF="./Gaymz/ClickTris/ClickTris.exe">ClickTris
> Cribbage
> Cubik's > Rube
> HREF="./Gaymz/Danyet/danyet16k.exe">Danyet
> Desktop Destroyer
> D > Gammon
> Dope > Wars
> Dweep > Demo
> Eagle
> English Grammar > Tutor
> Euchre
> Euro > Geography
> HREF="./Gaymz/Europe/Europe!/Europe!.exe">Europe
> E Words
> Flak
> Fours
> Free > Cell
> HREF="./Gaymz/french/FrenchBox/LangBox.exe">French > Box
> French > MP3
> Frog
> HREF="./Gaymz/Grandpa/GRANDPA.EXE">Grandpa
> HREF="./Gaymz/Kangaroo/hangaroo.exe">Hangaroo
> HREF="./Gaymz/HangmanBible/HangmanBible.exe">HangMan > Bible
> HTMLTutor
> Jetsons
> HREF="./Gaymz/JumBall/jumball.exe">JumBall
> Kung FU Kim
> Kitty
> HREF="./Gaymz/Letters/letters.exe">Letters
> Mahjongg
> Mario
> Mole
> HREF="./GAYMZ/MONOPOLY/MONOPOLY.EXE">Monopoly
> Moz > Pong
> Mr Matt
> Mine > Sweeper
> Opti > Geometric
> PC Basics > Tutor
> Pet > Wings
> Pongomania
> Pool
> Rain Man
> Saddam
> Same
> HREF="./Gaymz/WordJubbler/WordJubbler.exe">Scrabble
> Sea > Battle
> HREF="./Gaymz/Solitaire/SOL.EXE">Solitaire
> Space > Invaders
> HREF="./Gaymz/SpaceInvaders/spaceinvaders.exe">Space > Invaders 2
> Spanish > Tutor
> Super Mario > 1
> Super Mario > 2
> Stream > Bolt
> Tennis > 2001
> Tetris
> Tic > Tac > Toe
> Troy > 2000
> Typing > Animated
> Virtual > Dragon
> V-Racer
> Widow
> HREF="./Gaymz/Wilkanoid/wilkanoid.exe">Wilkanoid
> Win > Chess
> Win > Hoops
> Worms
> WWWeb > Dictionary
> X and > O
> HREF="./Gaymz/Yahtzii/Yahtzii.exe">Yahtzii
> === message truncated === -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 18:04:26 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:04:26 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <20060111175642.63419.qmail-U/uKf82u23SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 1/11/06, Matthew Godycki wrote: > > While no place is perfect on earth, Canada is one of the best places to > live. I realized the true value of Canada when I visited my home country > last year.... > > Imran. > I think that sentiment is shared by many of us who have been lucky enough to > immigrate here, whether many years ago or recently. > > -Matt I have spoken to many who echo that sentiment... both recent immigrants as well as people who have been here for decades. Also, living in Toronto is especially tolerant and welcoming to diverse cultures. Other cities and towns in Canada do not seem to be at the same level as T.O. where this is concerned. I believe the longer you live in and around Toronto, the MORE understanding and tolerant you become of everyone else's culture. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 20:05:42 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:05:42 -0500 Subject: Live Linux on USB drives Message-ID: Hi, I'm considering purchasing a cheap USB drive (512MB) for running a live distro such as CPX-Mini (http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~bading/cpx-mini/). Will ANY BRAND of USB work? Also can it be either USB 1.1 or 2.0? I have an Asus A7N8X-X board, so I under the impression that it SHOULD be able boot from USB as long as my BIOS boot setting has "Other Boot Device" enabled (or something like that, I can't remember how it's worded). Thanks for any help! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 20:07:47 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:07:47 -0500 Subject: Live Linux on USB drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060111200747.GD32745@ettin> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:05:42PM -0500, Steve wrote: >I'm considering purchasing a cheap USB drive (512MB) for running a >live distro such as CPX-Mini >(http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~bading/cpx-mini/). Will ANY BRAND >of USB work? Also can it be either USB 1.1 or 2.0? You should go with USB 2.0. The speed difference is significant. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 15 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 20:10:03 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:10:03 -0500 Subject: Live Linux on USB drives In-Reply-To: <20060111200747.GD32745@ettin> References: <20060111200747.GD32745@ettin> Message-ID: No, not all usb keys are bootable. I don't however know which one are and are not. -Joseph- On 1/11/06, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:05:42PM -0500, Steve wrote: > >I'm considering purchasing a cheap USB drive (512MB) for running a > >live distro such as CPX-Mini > >(http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~bading/cpx-mini/). Will ANY BRAND > >of USB work? Also can it be either USB 1.1 or 2.0? > > You should go with USB 2.0. The speed difference is significant. > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > Network Administrator | Uptime 15 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 21:16:06 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:16:06 -0500 Subject: Live Linux on USB drives In-Reply-To: References: <20060111200747.GD32745@ettin> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10601111316w7e7934fat444a03342e207812@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > No, not all usb keys are bootable. > I don't however know which one are and are not. I have an Apacer HandySteno HT202 (only 128MB) USB drive that works well under Linux. Other, larger capacity Apacer models appear to work fine as well - just Google the model # you are interested in to confirm that before buying. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 21:33:54 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:33:54 -0500 Subject: Live Linux on USB drives In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10601111316w7e7934fat444a03342e207812-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111200747.GD32745@ettin> <61e9e2b10601111316w7e7934fat444a03342e207812@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/11/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 1/11/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > No, not all usb keys are bootable. > > I don't however know which one are and are not. > > I have an Apacer HandySteno HT202 (only 128MB) USB drive that works > well under Linux. Other, larger capacity Apacer models appear to work > fine as well - just Google the model # you are interested in to > confirm that before buying. I was thinking of buying an OCZ one: http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_rally_high_performance_usb_2_0-dual_channel-flash_memory_drive Should I assume that these will work? Thanks for all the help. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 22:12:02 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:12:02 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060111221202.GA5973@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:44:50PM +0000, Muhammad Imran wrote: > While no place is perfect on earth, Canada is one of the best places to > live. I realized the true value of Canada when I visited my home country > last year.... Over the years I've had a number of occassions to know people who, after complaining for years about problems in Canada compared to their original country, returned "back home" to discover that they had gotten used to a large number of advantages in Canada that overwhelme the disadvantages, and they quickly moved right back to Canada. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 11 23:03:36 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:03:36 -0500 Subject: adding wireless to my home network Message-ID: <20060111230336.GA19893@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I'm going to be plugging a wireless router into my home network in a few days, but I'd appreciate any advice on how exactly to do it. I have a server that I want to move to the basement, and I want to be able to use my laptop without borrowing signal from my unwitting neighbour. Right now, all the wired computers, including the server, live behind a router/firewall. I like this, and I like having the server behind a firewall too. If I plug my wireless router into the wired router/firewall though, than any computer that gains wireless access can also see my wired machines, which I'd prefer to avoid. Also, can I forward a port (22 for instance) from one router/firewall to the next router/firewall to a machine of my choice? I am not hugely worried about neighbours stealing my signal, but I want to protect the machines on my network from transient wireless threats. Are there suggestions as to which security methods I should use; WEP, WPA, MAC address recognition etc? Finally, I bought my router so that it would be compatible with OpenWRT. Is it worth it to reflash it at once, or should I wait until my warranty lapses before fooling with something that already does what I need? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 00:26:03 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:26:03 -0500 Subject: Adding one or two mods to an existing /lib/modules In-Reply-To: <20060111143512.GA26907-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> <20060111143512.GA26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1137025563.5667.4.camel@gandalf> On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 09:35 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 12:21:11AM -0500, Paul King wrote: > WHere did you download the kernel from? > ftp.ca.kernel.org, a *.tar.bz2 file > If it wasn't a package from your distribution, then it isn't the same > version/patches. It is a matching version number: both are 2.6.12-1. Fedora adds an additional ".1381_FC3" to the versioning. Not even if I modify the LOCALVERSION variable to equal 1381_FC3? I can't imagine the additional "1381_FC3" designation as making it so totally different as to be incompatible. Does not the "6" refer to the patchlevel, so that the sublevel "12-1" must be even less significant than a patch level? And "1381_FC3" would be even less significant still? > > > And, all I want to do is to add one or two modules of the same version > > to the /lib/modules/ tree. But doing insmod for this > > module will not load it, because there is no dependency entry. > > > > How is this problem overcome? I can't find anything in the kernel docs > > about loading one or two extra modules to an existing tree and updating > > the dependencies. And of course there are other things I probably > > haven't thought of. > > Simplest is probably yo get the source rpm for the kernel image, and > changing the config to include the modules you want and building a new > rpm from it. That way you have a complete working rpm for your kernel. > Meaning that I would have to rebuild all the modules and redistribute them. > > I don't know if redhat has anything similar to debian's kernel-headers > system, for building modules to match a given kernel, although that only > really applies to out of tree kernel modules anyhow. > I am not sure either. I will check. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 00:48:27 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:48:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <20060111221202.GA5973-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> <20060111221202.GA5973@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <50733.207.188.65.194.1137026907.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Over the years I've had a number of occassions to know > people who, after complaining for years about problems > in Canada compared to their original country, returned > "back home" to discover that they had gotten used to a > large number of advantages in Canada that overwhelme > the disadvantages, and they quickly moved right back to > Canada. > That was such a common pattern among British expats that it was known as 'the cure'. Go back to Britain and get rid of the longing for the 'good old days' over 'ome. P. -- Peter Hiscocks Professor Emeritus, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ryerson University 416-465-3007 www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:04:27 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:04:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <50733.207.188.65.194.1137026907.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> <20060111221202.GA5973@lupus.perlwolf.com> <50733.207.188.65.194.1137026907.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Over the years I've had a number of occassions to know >> people who, after complaining for years about problems >> in Canada compared to their original country, returned >> "back home" to discover that they had gotten used to a >> large number of advantages in Canada that overwhelme >> the disadvantages, and they quickly moved right back to >> Canada. >> > That was such a common pattern among British expats that it was known as > 'the cure'. Go back to Britain and get rid of the longing for the 'good > old days' over 'ome. Then there are those like my parents, who, after 8 years in North America (3 in the US and 5 in Canada), went back to England for a sabbatical and never returned. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:32:58 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:32:58 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> The subject, with "xenophobia" there, is really repulsive. I have been writing on similar matters in the past, so let me please have a few words more. Someone noticed that Canadians born here also do have similar problems as newcomers. Thats so much true. And these who are new should be aware of that. We basically all share the same place, economical situation, all that surrounds our living conditions, we have similar opportunities, and while new people here have to struggle for living, these who are here for generations have too. New ones would benefit greatly by understanding and accepting this simple fact. These new ones are not singled out of the crowd for worser life. And when to speak about people, I do agree, most of Canadians are wonderful, though usually live according to standards and base their life on values that obviously must somehow differ from these values newcomers brought here. There are more than two important points in this a bit ugly discussion, but let me mention them. New ones do have a much more difficult start. Why? Well, simply these who live here for a long were able to create their own network of connections, which is extremely a good thing in life. While newcomers often do not even understand how the society works and very often have no idea where even to find information about matters that are of importance to them. In other words, these living here for a long do have better opportunities through the fact that they are supposed at least to understand better this society and have more connections. If they do indeed make a benefit of these factors is another issue for discussion. But anyone arriving to Canada for living here should, in principle, be aware, that he or she is breaking up with their society and starting life from the beginning, de facto. Canada is, I bet to say, most tolerant country in the world, when it comes to accepting newcomers. That does not need to mean yet that it is easy to settle here and live. No, it is not. These who think that life is more difficult everywhere else are terribly mistaken. Canada is not xenophobic, neither as a country nor as a society. It is open to others more than any country in the world. One perhaps should have in mind, however, a simple fact: Canada could probably not live and develop without newcomers. Many Canadians are not aware how much they have to suffer because of this huge influx of new people. That changes the entire policy, economy, social life. Yes, these living here for generations do suffer by that! And often are not understanding this social process. But Canada indeed seems to have no other choice. My problem, if I had any problem, would rather be about approach to certain values. It is rather a common idea, may be largely unconscious, that newcomers ought to be used. Just used. That they should pay the cost of coming here. Well, they will pay that cost anyway, regardless of how open the society is towards them or how much federal money are invested into helping them. That idea is wrong right at its roots. It harms heavily these who are living here for generations as well. It is been used by single people, by propaganda in media, by governments. Still people seem not to mention that both, these who come here and these who live here for 100 years or more, are simply made stupid and their minds manipulated. One can not build Good by doing Evil. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:38:15 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:38:15 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> <20060111221202.GA5973@lupus.perlwolf.com> <50733.207.188.65.194.1137026907.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <43C5B307.8070503@istop.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > Then there are those like my parents, who, after 8 years in North > America (3 in the US and 5 in Canada), went back to England for a > sabbatical and never returned. > Right. A lot of people returns. And the most striking example are returns of educated Russians. They just piss off on the fact that they can not get a position similar to what they had in their country and go back. And this tells a lot. While Russia has always been (and is) portrait as a rather poor country without possibilities... zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:48:13 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:48:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C5B307.8070503-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43C540EC.9020904@telly.org> <20060111221202.GA5973@lupus.perlwolf.com> <50733.207.188.65.194.1137026907.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <43C5B307.8070503@istop.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> Then there are those like my parents, who, after 8 years in North >> America (3 in the US and 5 in Canada), went back to England for a >> sabbatical and never returned. > > Right. A lot of people returns. And the most striking example are returns of > educated Russians. They just piss off on the fact that they can not get a > position similar to what they had in their country and go back. In my parents' case, they had excellent jobs here; both were tenured University faculty. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:52:00 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:52:00 -0500 Subject: newtlug mailing list new address? Message-ID: <20060112015201.4934.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Has the list address for talk-Q3LYrvjeUVfMLq2q1+GOoQ at public.gmane.org changed? I just got a delivery error that host newtlug.linux.ca does not exist. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 01:52:42 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:52:42 -0500 Subject: X won't open Message-ID: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> I can't bring up X on my FC2 production machine. I'm getting, GDM could not write a new authorization entry to disk. Possibly out of disk space. Error: No space left on device. I hit 'OK'. Then I got, I could not start the X server (your graphical environment) due to some internal error.Please contact your system administrator or check your syslog to diagnose. In the menatime this display will be disabled. Please restart gdm when the problem is corrected. I logged into (command line) as root and ran df. The only directory 100% full is /initrd. That doesn't sound like a directory that I can just move files out of. Besides it doesn't appear as a directory when I run ls -a. Any ideas for a next step? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 02:15:54 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:15:54 -0500 Subject: X won't open In-Reply-To: <20060112015242.5751.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20060112021554.4509.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org writes: > I can't bring up X on my FC2 production machine. > I logged into (command line) as root and ran df. The only directory 100% > full is /initrd. That doesn't sound like a directory that I can just move > files out of. Besides it doesn't appear as a directory when I run ls -a. Sorry, that was dumb -- I was in the root directory. /initrd is definitely there but has no listed files in it. [root at p733]# ls -a /initrd . .. 1007960 one-kilobyte blocks -- I guess that's a gigabyte. SO, it takes up space! I'll read up on initrd... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 02:25:46 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:25:46 -0500 Subject: X won't open In-Reply-To: <20060112021554.4509.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112021554.4509.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20060112022546.17724.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org writes: > > [root at p733]# ls -a /initrd > . .. > > 1007960 one-kilobyte blocks -- I guess that's a gigabyte. SO, it takes up > space! > > I'll read up on initrd... I found a list of the standard directories (/, /bin, /boot, /dev et al) and /initrd was not listed. Maybe it's like /proc in that it only runs when the OS is running -- not an installed directory... I'll do a web search... > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 03:07:35 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:07:35 -0500 Subject: adding wireless to my home network In-Reply-To: <20060111230336.GA19893-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111230336.GA19893@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <43C5C7F7.20601@utoronto.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I'm going to be plugging a wireless router into my home network in a few > days, but I'd appreciate any advice on how exactly to do it. I have a > server that I want to move to the basement, and I want to be able to use > my laptop without borrowing signal from my unwitting neighbour. Just how unwitting is your neighbour? I've got a few people in my building/neighbourhood who password protect and change their ssid, but who openly offer their internet to anyone who wants to use it. I don't think that there are any laws (in Canada anyways) at the moment that have been used to find someone with an open AP liable for the actions of others who use the connection. That being said, your friendly EULA issuer might not agree. > Right now, all the wired computers, including the server, live behind a > router/firewall. I like this, and I like having the server behind a > firewall too. If I plug my wireless router into the wired > router/firewall though, than any computer that gains wireless access can > also see my wired machines, which I'd prefer to avoid. If you restrict access to the wireless portion of your network using one of your below-mentioned methods, there is no reason why such a setup need worry you. > Also, can I forward a port (22 for instance) from one router/firewall to > the next router/firewall to a machine of my choice? > > I am not hugely worried about neighbours stealing my signal, but I want > to protect the machines on my network from transient wireless threats. > Are there suggestions as to which security methods I should use; WEP, > WPA, MAC address recognition etc? Finally, I bought my router so that it > would be compatible with OpenWRT. Is it worth it to reflash it at once, > or should I wait until my warranty lapses before fooling with something > that already does what I need? > > Thanks. MAC filtering is OK, but your unencrypted traffic is just that -- unencrypted, transmitted in the clear unless encrypted by something like... ssh etc. Someone with just a little knowledge of ifconfig could easily spoof a MAC address or two and create some pretty nasty man-in-the-middle attacks. Someone who can install kismet can read any radio traffic within range of their card and its antenna (or additional antenna for that matter). Anyone with enough smarts (read little to none in this case) to spoof a MAC address could crack WEP in a matter of 15 minutes or so, given just a few (1 even!) packets and hardware that can replay and monitor packets at the same time. Such cards are readily available for under $20 if you check chipsets and the local stores. Anyone who can crack WEP in a short amount of time could easily crack WPA *if* your passphrase is too weak. Indeed, it is faster to crack a weak WPA passphrase with a dictionary than to crack WEP by bruteforce and replaying packets. Choose a good long (20 characters, non-dictionary) passphrase and WPA provides good security. As for reflashing, if the wireless router does everything you want it to, what would voiding your warranty accomplish? Unless you can reflash back to the original, in which case it would be a great thing to try, I'd say it would be best to leave well enough alone unless you are absolutely certain that the hardware revision and the firmware are a match for each other. My $0.02 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 03:22:33 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:22:33 -0500 Subject: X won't open In-Reply-To: <20060112022546.17724.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112021554.4509.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112022546.17724.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <43C5CB79.2020006@vianet.ca> caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org writes: > > >> >> [root at p733]# ls -a /initrd >> . .. >> 1007960 one-kilobyte blocks -- I guess that's a gigabyte. SO, it >> takes up space! >> I'll read up on initrd... > > > I found a list of the standard directories (/, /bin, /boot, /dev et > al) and /initrd was not listed. Maybe it's like /proc in that it only > runs when the OS is running -- not an installed directory... > I'll do a web search... Looks like /initrd is involved with RAM disk set up during boot --- not something I want to try to delete! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 03:26:38 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:26:38 -0500 Subject: X won't open In-Reply-To: <43C5CB79.2020006-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112021554.4509.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112022546.17724.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <43C5CB79.2020006@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <43C5CC6E.2050803@vianet.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Looks like /initrd is involved with RAM disk set up during boot --- > not something I want to try to delete! I deleted the files in /var/log and deleted files in the subdirectories of /var/log. I booted and X came up! / looks healthier now: [chris at p733 chris]$ df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda8 1007960 418800 537956 44% / Everything seems to work OK now -- Rosegarden, printing, Internet, Thunderbird... > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 03:48:07 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:48:07 -0500 Subject: X won't open In-Reply-To: <43C5CC6E.2050803-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015242.5751.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112021554.4509.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20060112022546.17724.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <43C5CB79.2020006@vianet.ca> <43C5CC6E.2050803@vianet.ca> Message-ID: Hmm, this look like a good time to set up cron, to be purging those files regularly. How long is it since you set up the system? If you can answer that, modify crontab to be kicking up at around two third of that time. Then, copy the script that purges the temp directory and point it to /var and this will never happen again William On 1/11/06, Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > > > > > Looks like /initrd is involved with RAM disk set up during boot --- > > not something I want to try to delete! > > I deleted the files in /var/log and deleted files in the subdirectories > of /var/log. I booted and X came up! > > / looks healthier now: > > [chris at p733 chris]$ df / > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda8 1007960 418800 537956 44% / > > Everything seems to work OK now -- Rosegarden, printing, Internet, > Thunderbird... > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 04:25:09 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:25:09 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> For a server, there is a budget that was decided on by my predecessor >> who jumped ship at the last minute. I can't say what it is, but there >> is enough to build a fairly powerful whitebox (with backup components >> too) with as much RAM as I can stuff in. > > Ah good to hear. > snip > > I can definiately say LTSP is no trouble at all with Debian. Apt-get > the packages and run ltspadmin. > Tried it out on a test network today and had excellent results. However, the systems I used are a little more up to date (450mhz with 256b ram, I wish I could take a few of these instead!) than the actual donated boxes, so the results aren't too promising considering the age of the actual hardware. I've had some incredibly helpful feedback from a few people, both on and off list, as well as at the meet last night, and afterwards. I just want to say thanks to everyone who has given me input (you know who you are ;) on this little project and give a quick update: Either I make do with 10mbit ISA cards on underpowered hardware and use a terminal system regardless, or I use a *very* lightweight distro on each box. However because much of the hardware is dated and grinds on startup (PS bearings, CPU fans, etc...), scrapping the terminal/server idea might be the way to go. The idea being that buying 10 systems like this: http://www.sonnam.com/detail.asp?S=696155428&prod_gp=30&prod_code=232&prod_ID=SYS%2DSN%2DBUN%2D0002 and a stick of RAM for each might actually be cheaper than buying replacement parts for each decrepit potential terminal and a decent server. Of course I'd try setting up a purchase like this in Haiti, or even purchasing older hardware for my original thin-client idea there. There just isn't anyone there right now to scout the larger cities for parts. The thing that really gets me in all this is shipping. One site wants $944 USD to ship 5 workstations worth $749 USD total. As much as I know that this is the reality I face, it is still quite indicative of how well the market works to maintain the position of those who are already oppressed by said market. Thanks again all. I will be creating a detailed plan this weekend with the others involved and will have a better idea of what *is* going to happen when I go. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 05:14:03 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:14:03 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? In-Reply-To: <43C26852.1070109-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20060112051403.GA7577@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 08:42:42AM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote > I rather like the idea of an anti-spam solution that rejects mail > during SMTP transaction. I'm not happy with the idea of any system > that directs mail to /dev/null or even a folder that I will never > read ... if I am not going to read it I'd like that to be explicit > by issuing an SMTP reject, that way any unfortunate sender who gets > blocked will know. I'm open to differing opinions on this though ... > > I haven't really looked at any spam solutions since I implemented > TMDA so I'm hoping you can all share opinions on how to beat spam > (a bit of a vi vs. emacs type question I suppose). The following is not a paid-for spam, it's the result of being a happy customer. I have a remote inbox with clss.net (Aurora Internet Services in Logansport, Indiana). They've hacked qmail to implement smtp-stage rejection (the big 550) right after the RCPT stage under the control of a user-configured config file. I've automated ssh-tunneling so that any program that can pull POPmail can get email via ssh-tunneling. The config file allows to block on various items. Most of the *REJECT options have a *ACCEPT equivalant, for enabling whitelisting. Various criteria include... - envelope-sender or portions thereof - rDNS, or portions thereof - reject from machines with no rDNS at all (China) - HELO, or portions thereof - HELOing as the *RECEIVING* MTA (dohhh) - IP addresses or CIDRs - return values from DNSbls. Multiple values can be specified. One DNS lookup to dnsbl.sorbs.net or zz.countries.nerd.dk can scan for multiple 127.0.X.Y codes. - you can add custom messages (or the DNSbl's TXT field) to the 550 message. E.g. temporary filter bypass addresses. I'm attaching my config file (with whitelist greatly cut down) to give a feel how it works. You also get a log file of rejects. I wrote a script to parse the log file. Here's the number of attempts rejected so far this month... 31 Jan 1 30 Jan 2 28 Jan 3 100 Jan 4 183 Jan 5 46 Jan 6 29 Jan 7 38 Jan 8 23 Jan 9 43 Jan 10 115 Jan 11 -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -------------- next part -------------- #!/var/qmail/bin/dnsblfilter -lf # whitelist SIACCEPTTAIL york.ca,newmarket.ca PIACCEPTTAIL york.ca,newmarket.ca IACCEPT 209.139.212.0/24 PIACCEPTTAIL grp.scd.yahoo.com # idiots helo'ing as my mx REJECTSELFHELO Just who do you think you're kidding with that helo? # idiots helo'ing as my domain HIREJECTTAIL waltdnes.org Just who do you think you're kidding with that helo? # Spam seems to be the only thing I get from this H E L O HIREJECT addr.com H E L O and goodbye. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # reject email from machines with absolutely no rdns REJECTNOHOSTNAME Rejected due to lack of hostname. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # reject email from sites whose rdns smells dynamic PIREJECTREGEX [0-9]+-[0-9]+-[0-9]+ Rejected email from dynamic IP. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTREGEX [0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+ Rejected email from dynamic IP. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTREGEX tiscali Rejected email from tiscali affiliate. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTTAIL ipt.aol.com Rejected email from dynamic IP. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTTAIL cpe.net.cable.rogers.com Rejected email from dynamic IP. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTTAIL ar,br,cl,cn,fr,gb,gt,hk,in,id,il,it,jp,kr,my,nl,ng,pl,ro,ru,su,sg,es,za,tw,uk Certain countries (pireject-tail) If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. SIREJECTTAIL ar,br,cl,cn,fr,gb,gt,hk,in,id,il,it,jp,kr,my,nl,ng,pl,ro,ru,su,sg,es,za,tw,uk Certain countries (sireject-tail) If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIREJECTTAIL biz,info,hinet.net (Certain providers by rDNS) If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. SIREJECTTAIL biz,info,hinet.net (Certain providers by envelope-sender) If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # For viruses allegedly from support at waltdnes.org and blatantly obvious phishing from outfits I don't have accounts with. SIREJECTTAIL waltdnes.org,e-gold.com,egoldshop.net,paycard2000.com,paypal.com,aceinkjet.com,ebay.com,chase.com I don't have an account with you, so bugger off. # Residential address space IREJECT 12.0.0.0/8 Block of all 12.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # Residential address space (broadband) IREJECT 24.0.0.0/8 Block of all 24.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # AFRINIC IREJECT 41.0.0.0/8 Block of all 41.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 58.0.0.0/7 Block of all 58.0.0.0/7 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 60.0.0.0/7 Block of all 60.0.0.0/7 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 124.0.0.0/7 Block of all 124.0.0.0/7 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 126.0.0.0/8 Block of all 126.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # LACNIC IREJECT 189.0.0.0/8 Block of all 189.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # LACNIC IREJECT 190.0.0.0/8 Block of all 190.0.0.0/8 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # LACNIC (200 and 201) and APNIC (202 and 203) IREJECT 200.0.0.0/6 Block of all 200.0.0.0/6 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 210.0.0.0/7 Block of all 210.0.0.0/7 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 218.0.0.0/7 Block of all 218.0.0.0/7 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # APNIC IREJECT 220.0.0.0/6 Block of all 220.0.0.0/6 IP space. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. IREJECT 216.184.96.0/19 No Hablo E-spam-ol (Telefonica). If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. IREJECT 216.230.128.0/19 No Hablo E-spam-ol (intelnet.net.gt). If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # Seeing several spam from these IREJECT 65.52.0.0/14 Rejected email from spam spigot Hotmail. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. IREJECT 64.4.0.0/18 Rejected email from spam spigot Hotmail. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # dnsbl.sorbs.net aggregate return codes are: # http.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.2 # socks.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.3 # misc.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.4 # smtp.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.5 # spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.6 # web.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.7 # block.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.8 # zombie.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.9 # dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.10 #badconf.rhsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.11 # nomail.rhsbl.sorbs.net 127.0.0.12 REJECT dnsbl.sorbs.net A 127.0.0.2,127.0.0.3,127.0.0.4,127.0.0.5,127.0.0.7,127.0.0.9,127.0.0.10 %TXT% Email rejected on advice of dnsbl.sorbs.net. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. REJECT list.dsbl.org A 127.0.0.2 Email rejected on advice of list.dsbl.org. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. # REJECT sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org A 127.0.0.2 %TXT% Email rejected on advice of spamhaus.org. If yours was a legitimate email see http://www.waltdnes.org/bypass.html to bypass block. PIACCEPTTAIL aol.com SIREJECTTAIL aol.com I only accept From: @aol.com addresses if the email actually originates from a aol.com server. PIACCEPTTAIL msn.com SIREJECTTAIL msn.com I only accept From: @msn.com addresses if the email actually originates from a msn.com server. PIACCEPTTAIL yahoo.com SIREJECTTAIL yahoo.com I only accept From: @yahoo.com addresses if the email actually originates from a yahoo.com server. From nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 07:46:36 2006 From: nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:46:36 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C5B1CA.7030802-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> Message-ID: <17c359fc0601112346r646ae590o7dc526e66fd80faf@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > My problem, if I had any problem, would rather be about approach to > certain values. It is rather a common idea, may be largely unconscious, > that newcomers ought to be used. Just used. That they should pay the > cost of coming here. Well, they will pay that cost anyway, regardless of > how open the society is towards them or how much federal money are > invested into helping them. That idea is wrong right at its roots. It > harms heavily these who are living here for generations as well. It is > been used by single people, by propaganda in media, by governments. > Still people seem not to mention that both, these who come here and > these who live here for 100 years or more, are simply made stupid and > their minds manipulated. One can not build Good by doing Evil. > > zb. Well put, Zbigniew. Another thing that I think often gets lost in discussions about "new Canadians" is the difference between refugees and immigrants. Now, the system isn't perfect, and there are abuses, but the general idea is thus: REFUGEES: if you manage to get to Canada somehow, and if the Canadian government sending you back to your country would result in harm or death to you because of persecution, war, or other factors, Canada has an obligation according to international law (see: Geneva Convention, iirc) to let you stay. Now, letting you stay has meant variously "keeping you in a detention facility until the war in your home country is over" to "integrating you into Canadian society with more or less support available to you", but the general gist is that as members of the human race, we have a moral obligation to not send human beings back to a place where they face death or torture. IMMIGRANTS, further specifiable as economic immigrants, on the other hand, have to have a proven track record of a) an education b) good physical health and c) a certain amount of funds (the exact amount escapes me but i have some recollection that it's over $100K), before we'll even let them into the country. Depending on their place of origin and education, they may end up driving cabs because their credentials (upon which we've allowed them in) aren't recognised by various professiona groups. Even with the last point, however, we're still talking about a group that's by and large better off than refugees are when they get here. My point in making this distinction and these definitions quite explicit is the following: 1) we're letting refugees in because it's the Right Thing to do as human beings ( I and international law think so, at least). They may be uneducated. They may have post-traumatic stress disorder. We should care for them and help them become full members of our society. It's the Right Thing To Do. 2) we're letting in immigrants because they _benefit_ our society. It's our own dumb fault for making them drive cabs - it's our loss. They're not "taking our jobs". We're letting them in for their skills, nowledge, and quite frankly money. Having done some work with the Ontario International Medical Graduate program back in my academic advisor at U of T stage, I know that we just aren't putting the resources into proprly assessing their degrees and qualifications when they do get here. There were something like several thousand applications for 50 spots the last time I checked - that's several thousand doctors who were driving cabs or working as lab technicians when they could have been the GP I still have yet to find. That's enough rant for the night :-) -- Leigh Honeywell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 12:54:55 2006 From: pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:54:55 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C6519F.5060104@rogers.com> I think there are several points that may serve this discussion. To lump Canada and the U.S. together is misleading. Canada's concept of the "ethnic ghetto" (not a negative term) serves larger cities by giving newcomers a relatively safe and familiar environment from which to integrate (or not) into the rest of the culture. While large U.S. cities have similar situations, higher levels of urban violence and corruption combined with a lack of uniform zoning, tend to turn these areas into the bad kind of ghettos. Hence the phrase "from the wrong side of the tracks" often has a very specific meaning in American cities. Not so much here. To get even more thorny, it's probably fair to say that the biggest schism in how (non-english-speaking) immigrants are treated tends to run along urban/rural lines. Said another way, your immigrant experience in Canada will be better if you move to city with an established enclave from your country of origin. Interestingly, this is one way in which english-speaking immigrants can be at a disadvantage to non-english-speakers. While one might share the english language, there are few other cultural ties, so one often ends up feeling like and outsider. While immigrant exploitation (the immigrants get all the shit work) exists in Canada, I have never been to a country where this was not the case. There are types of policy which could be termed "institutional xenophobia". For example, the certifying bodies for many skilled services (e.g., doctors, dentists) put up onerous and often unnecessary roadblocks to immigrants with comparable skills. Someone once told me that this was done on purpose to keep the market from being flooded by cheaper foreign labour. It's the equivalent of a union protecting the seniority of it's members. This was certainly true of a dentist I know from eastern Europe. It took her three years to get certified here. To be fair, these roadblocks are put up against Canadian professionals wishing to ply their trades in the E.U. or U.S. It's just "service-based protectionism". Xenophobic though? I don't think so. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 14:11:35 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:11:35 -0500 Subject: Kubuntu, wireless, multiple APs Message-ID: <1137075095.1699.1623.camel@holden.weait.net> Hi All, I'm looking for a specific solution from somebody with KDE-foo. Here is what I have so far. I keep a KDE desktop "Link to Device" for each mountable device along the right side of my desktop. Each of those icons has a telltale to indicate whether the device is mounted or not; when mounted, a green triangle appears at the corner of the icon. This telltale works when hotplug mounts the device, and when I mount / unmount the device manually. This is what it looks like: http://www.cambridgelug.org/files/pictures/devices.png Image shows four devices on one side of my desktop. NFS and CF Card are mounted, Floppy and Pen Drive are not. I would like to have something similar for wireless networks. I'd prefer to have a different desktop icon for each network. The green triangle would indicate to which one I am connecting. The existing tools that I've seen are not quite what I am looking for. WiFi Radar - Launch program, select AP from list, click (dis)connect. KWiFiManager - Scans for networks but finds none. KWirelessMonitor - Appears to support only one essid requiring re-typing Any tips? Cheers, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 15:26:18 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 12 Jan 2006 10:26:18 -0500 Subject: newtlug mailing list new address? In-Reply-To: <20060112015201.4934.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015201.4934.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org writes: > Has the list address for talk-Q3LYrvjeUVfMLq2q1+GOoQ at public.gmane.org changed? I just got a delivery > error that host newtlug.linux.ca does not exist. Chris Hmm, well it seems that the slave DNS server didn't pick up the last zone transfer. It has now. Could you try: leadpipe:~$ host -t mx newtlug.linux.ca newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 20 mx2.starnix.com. newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 10 mail.starnix.com. And confirm that you get the same results? Mail should go through after that. You can contact me privately, too. TTYL, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:13:52 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:13:52 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <20060111144920.GC26907-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111144920.GC26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Hello everybody, Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services to learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to begin. I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. That is if it would be possible to do it this way. What do you guys or girls think? Thanks in advance, Joseph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:24:46 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:24:46 -0500 Subject: Does the DoJ Use Microsoft as a Shill Against Linux? Message-ID: <1137083086.9699.7.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Is something is rotten in whoville... RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca Does the DoJ Use Microsoft as a Shill Against Linux? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/51589/ Have fears of a resurgence of communism led the DoJ to suspect GNU/Linux communities of having anti-capitalistic agendas? If so, have they allowed Microsoft to engage in anti-trust to stop Free Software? Have you ever chronicled the US Government's efforts to litigate Microsoft? When you step back and take a look, it seems as though the Department of Justice shopped around for a friendly judge and finally got one. You might even consider that we had two presidents with conflicts of interest with Microsoft and their own cabinets. Why is this important? Because Microsoft has attacked and continues to attack GNU/Linux, the Free Software Foundation and a host of projects related to open source software. With Microsoft's considerable resources, they have mounted an ambitious campaign unlike any they have undertaken in the past. They intend to wipe us from the map. Here's the progression: * DoJ performs massive investigation and enters into a decree-> * Judge Sporkin refuses to approve-> * DoJ/Microsoft joint appeal-> * Judge Jackson hears case and rules to break up Microsoft-> * Microsoft appeals-> * Bush DoJ and Microsoft reach settlement-> * Collen Kollar-Kotelly approves-> * Microsoft goes back to business and attacks GNU/Linux. How did this happen? Like I wrote above, Microsoft and their partner, the Department of Justice shopped for a friendly judge until they found one. It starts with a DoJ investigation headed up by Anne Bingaman. Most people believe in the spring of 1994 that she would file a major suite against Microsoft. But, after Bill Gates visit to the White House all that changed. Failed Decree The DoJ reached a settlement with Microsoft and took it to the first Judge Stanley Sporkin. In a memorandum opinion on Valentine's Day 1995, he launched into Microsoft wondering why the DoJ had made nothing of Microsoft's anti-trust case. Ultimately, Sporkin refused to approve the agreement and Microsoft and the DoJ appealed the decision. That's correct Microsoft and Justice, titular adversaries, filed a joint appeal. The following June, a federal appeals court overturned Judge Sporkin and assigned the case to a different judge, Thomas Penfield Jackson. Bill Gates Visits China Bill Gates soon thereafter visited China where, after meetings with Jiang Zemin, Windows was declared the official operating system of the People's Republic of China. At just about the time of Gates's visit, the government of China began putting money into the Democratic Party's coffers. Conspiracy theorists find the chain of incidents strange. They consider it an unusual coincidence. Anti-Trust Trial We all know what happened next. The DoJ began a trial with Judge Jackson presiding. They called the filing, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant. With an embattled President going through impeachment, Microsoft started making new friends. Enter the Republicans >From 1998-99, Jack Abramoff received $560,000 to lobby on behalf of Microsoft. Abramoff's associate, Ralph Reed received a $240,000 annual retainer while serving as a senior consultant to the Bush Campaign 2000. Reed's company's internal documents showed that his mission involved identifying and recruiting prominent Bush supporters to personally write and lobby Bush to back Microsoft. Reed's contract with Microsoft came to the public's attention and proved an embarrassment to the Bush campaign in the summer of 2000. While under prosecution for anti-trust, Microsoft had hired a number of Bush aides as consultants and lobbyists. But nothing came of it. Soon after Bush's inauguration, an appeals court overturned Judge Jackson's break-up order and the new DoJ got a new judge, Colleen Kollar-Kotelly. She approved what amounted to slap on the hand. Ralph Nader the prophet Lots of people thought Microsoft got off too easy and "the fix was in". Ralph Nader wrote a letter to the court that you may consider prophetic. Let's take a look some of his points. He wrote (excerpts): * We note at the outset that the decision to push for a rapid negotiation appears to have placed the Department of Justice at a disadvantage. * We are disappointed of course to see a move away from a structural remedy (the break-up). * A need to have broader disclosure of file formats for popular office productivity and multimedia applications (exists). * Moreover, the agreement appears to give Microsoft too many opportunities to undermine the free software movement. Microsoft Attacks Free Software Nader may not have won the race to become President of the US, but he saw the future. Microsoft kept its file formats a secret, went after Peter Quinn and then opened the wrapper of its MSXML format. Of course, it's not really open since the specification requires anyone who uses it to include old undocumented proprietary formats such a WordML and RTF. Microsoft has plenty of opportunities to undermine the free software movement. Microsoft has established a slush fund of $180 million to stop Linux from gaining government adoption anywhere on the globe. They have also put forth an unprecedented lobbying effort, have brought legal action against Brazil's head of IT, funded bogus benchmarks and TCO studies while restricting others from doing the same. They have also set up shop on Linux news sites and spent untold amounts of money on their "Get the Facts" campaign. Take a look at Figure 1 and 2 and ask yourself if Microsoft's advertising seems appropriate for a convicted monopolist. Figure 1 shows how Microsoft can flex enough financial muscle to invade a respected Linux news site. In this case, Microsoft's anti-Linux advertising runs in the banner rotation in an article about Debian Linux and ISPConfig. Figure 2 shows Microsoft planting itself on LinuxToday with an anti-Linux resource center. Where's the Anti-Trust Cops When You Need Them Governments around the world have found Microsoft guilty of Anti-Trust as if that was a stretch. What does the Bush Administration do? Our Justice Department tells South Korea's Fair Trade Commission that they went too far in an antitrust judgment against Microsoft. Last month, I spoke to Bob Price, former CEO of Control Data Corporation and author of The Eye for Innovation. We discussed a private anti-trust suit Control Data initiated against IBM back in 1968, when IBM was the nastiest monopoly in the world. Bob recalled the problems he had with the Department of Justice bringing any action against IBM. As we spoke, I asked a series of questions about how dirty IBM behaved at the time of the CDC suit. My questions went something like this: Did IBM ever sue a public official in another country for wanting to use a different platform? Did IBM ever call a competitor a cancer? How far did they go in influencing members of Congress, the Judiciary, state representatives? When I finished, Bob seemed astonished. He didn't know Microsoft was that insidious. As our discussion ended, I realized that the difference between CDC then and Linux now had to do with money. CDC could afford a legal action where it received a substantial settlement. The Linux people don't have those kinds of resources. What we do need is a government that will take care of the people in this country and enforce the laws. What laws? Primarily the Sherman and Clayton anti-trust laws against Microsoft. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:28:26 2006 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:28:26 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? In-Reply-To: <43C26852.1070109-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 1/9/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > For the past few years I have been using TMDA and I have been very happy > with it (perhaps 20 pieces of non-mailing-list spam in that time). I > have had no complaints from people emailing me just the odd person who > was not in my whitelist being confused by my verification message. ... > Last night (23:30) I finally disabled TMDA, by 06:30 I already had 54 > pieces of spam. > > I rather like the idea of an anti-spam solution that rejects mail during > SMTP transaction. I'm not happy with the idea of any system that > directs mail to /dev/null or even a folder that I will never read ... if > I am not going to read it I'd like that to be explicit by issuing an > SMTP reject, that way any unfortunate sender who gets blocked will know. > I'm open to differing opinions on this though ... I've been using greylist for a while now, and it seems to work pretty well. The greylist scheme is: * The first time address A sends mail from IP B to address C, it is rejected with a temporary failure. * If A tries again form B to C within a certain timeframe (there is a minimum and maximum time limit, configurable), then the mail is accepted. Most spammers will try to send mail once, and then never again (at least, not with the same source address). I get a spam or two every few days. Maybe a spam or two a week? It's now completely unobtrusive to my inbox. It can have the same problem as TMDA where automated messages get caught, but only when they do not retry, or when they retry from a different address every time. Systems such as gmail and yahoo are susceptible to this, but it's straightforward to add google and yahoo (and others) to your whitelist. I suggest monitoring the greylist list ("greylist list --grey") for the first few weeks to determine if anyone is being caught by changing mail server IPs. I also do that when I don't receive a confirmation as quickly as I'd expect. Most mailservers will retry in a few minutes for the first few retries, and then less often for a few days. The worst outcome is that someone's mail (hopefully) gets returned as undeliverable due to recurring errors, at which point you'd hope that they'd try to contact you some other way. The temporary failure message may even explain that greylist is in use. I've never checked... The package I use is for debian an exim4, but there may be similar packages for postfix. http://packages.debian.org/greylistd -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:38:26 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 12 Jan 2006 11:38:26 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> References: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: "Joseph" writes: > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? My background is in > tech support but in non-Linux environment. I was wondering if it would be > possible to exchange my services to learn Linux? It could be just doing > installs for someone to begin. I think that it would be a great way to > start learning Linux. That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > What do you guys or girls think? Thanks in advance, Joseph Hi Joseph, It can definitely work. When CLUE was doing the 'CLUE Linux Centre' down on Eastern Ave, Starnix hired two of the volunteers (one for web/perl dev and one for Linux admin). I think that it may be hard to find a company that will go along with the idea but finding NPO/NGOs that are keen to try it out should be doable. Just expect to get contacts and experience more than job offers, though. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:31:40 2006 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:31:40 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> References: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Joseph wrote: > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? I've made attempts to find IT volunteering projects over the past couple of years and have had no success locating organizations that are interested. My skills are more in the area of application and server software than administration, but I would say that most organizations have a view of volunteers as being primarily suitable for menial tasks. Here's one place that I do check out from time-to-time...just in case. Best of luck! ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:45:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:45:02 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <17c359fc0601112346r646ae590o7dc526e66fd80faf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <17c359fc0601112346r646ae590o7dc526e66fd80faf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060112164502.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 02:46:36AM -0500, Leigh Honeywell wrote: > IMMIGRANTS, further specifiable as economic immigrants, on the other > hand, have to have a proven track record of a) an education b) good > physical health and c) a certain amount of funds (the exact amount > escapes me but i have some recollection that it's over $100K), before > we'll even let them into the country. Depending on their place of > origin and education, they may end up driving cabs because their > credentials (upon which we've allowed them in) aren't recognised by > various professiona groups. Even with the last point, however, we're > still talking about a group that's by and large better off than > refugees are when they get here. Some immigrants gain entry based on being willing and able to invest a certain amount of money in canada. Others get in based on having sufficiently desirable skills and education and language skills and an offer of a job. The second option is how my family got here. The first option requires that you have at least $800000 net worth (legally obtained they specify), and that you give them at least $400000 to be invested in canada. You get back the money a little over 5 years later, with no interest. So it is a way for people with lots and lots of money to buy entrance to the country. Oh and you should have business experience too, so I guess they expect you to go start your own business or something too with the remaining money you have. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:51:15 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:51:15 -0500 Subject: has anyone played with these new Linux toys yet? Message-ID: <20060112164636.250C5B4855@outbox.allstream.net> http://www.realmsys.com/solutions_mps.html http://www.projectblackdog.com/product.html These are one and the same. The Blackdog is the "lost leader" proof of concept device and the Personal Server is the real product being pushed. I'd be interested in hearing about any experience particularly about relative ease or difficulty adding custom open source software to it. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:49:49 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:49:49 -0500 Subject: Adding one or two mods to an existing /lib/modules In-Reply-To: <1137025563.5667.4.camel@gandalf> References: <1136956871.25021.36.camel@gandalf> <20060111143512.GA26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1137025563.5667.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060112164949.GC18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 07:26:03PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > ftp.ca.kernel.org, a *.tar.bz2 file Redhat/Fedora applies many patches to their kernels. Unless your source has the same patches, it is not the same kernel. Never mind what the original version it was based on is. > > If it wasn't a package from your distribution, then it isn't the same > > version/patches. > > It is a matching version number: both are 2.6.12-1. Fedora adds an > additional ".1381_FC3" to the versioning. > > Not even if I modify the LOCALVERSION variable to equal 1381_FC3? I > can't imagine the additional "1381_FC3" designation as making it so > totally different as to be incompatible. Does not the "6" refer to the > patchlevel, so that the sublevel "12-1" must be even less significant > than a patch level? And "1381_FC3" would be even less significant still? The only difference between 2.6.14 and 2.6.15 is a patch. They are rather incompatible module wise in many cases. The patches can make huge changes, or they can make insignificant changes that don't affect modules at all. Without reading the patch changes you won't know. FC makes a lot of changes to their kernel. A patch can change the arguments of a kernel function, or even the name of it. That would seriously change the module interface for anything using that function. > Meaning that I would have to rebuild all the modules and redistribute them. If you want to do it properly and in a way that is easy to deal with in the future when you upgrade the kernel again, then yes. If you like having random files all over your filesystem that you have to manually clean up later, then go ahead and just copy a few files after you somehow manage to build them properly. > I am not sure either. I will check. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 16:53:47 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:53:47 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> References: <20060111144920.GC26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <20060112165347.GD18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:13:52AM -0500, Joseph wrote: > Hello everybody, > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? > My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. > I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services > to learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to > begin. > I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. > That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > What do you guys or girls think? I learned to use linux by installing and running it on my own machine. Seems simple enough (assuming you have a computer). :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 17:04:19 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:04:19 -0500 Subject: Controlling source code Message-ID: <20060112170419.GB28104@ettin> I think that using ACLs and manual scripting is the hard way to do this. Perhaps using something like Subversion? Any suggestions? Purpose To control the flow of software packages from pre QA work through to GA. Requirements Packages, but not documentation, will be moved by the packaging team to the pre-QA vault (PRQA). Access rights to PRQA allow the packaging team to add new content but, not change or remove existing content. The PRQA vault is available internally to others outside of the packaging team, on a read only basis. Install systems will be able to point their installers to the PRQA via NFS. The PRQA vault will be mirrored to another hard drive for safety. Once a package is ready to pass from PRQA to post QA (POQA), the relevant files will be moved, by IT, to the POQA vault. Once in POQA the files will be read only to all users. As with the PRQA these files will be available via NFS. Technological Considerations. Granting the required access rights for PRQA will likely require the use of linux ACLs. Given the large amount of data to be stored and moved on this system, SATA drives should be used. Since this system will have a large capacity and host many large files the XFS file system should be considered over ext3. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 16 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 17:16:19 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:16:19 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060109222318.GA1511-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060109015754.GA18026@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060109161809.GG26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060109222318.GA1511@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060112171619.GA21245@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 05:23:18PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The commands were: > export file=austinpowers.vob > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 1 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.pass1.mov > ffmpeg -i $file -cropleft 4 -cropright 10 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -s 320x240 -r 29.97 -b 384 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -acodec aac -ab 96 -g 300 -pass 2 -passlogfile mpg2ipod_log -f mov $file.ipod.mov > rm -f $file.pass1.mov > > I don't have an ipod to test on, so who knows if it is right or not. I tried these commands -- well, I used a different vob file, but close enough -- to generate an iPod-playable .mov file. They worked like a charm with the Debian unstable version of ffmpeg (actually fed in from ftp.nerim.net), converting a 1GB vobfile to a 150MB quicktime file. The result plays beautifully on an iPod. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 18:41:53 2006 From: nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:41:53 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> References: <20060111144920.GC26907@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <17c359fc0601121041m3175ebd0w6f8fb3deef7f73fe@mail.gmail.com> Go hang out at Linuxcaffe. I'm sure David will think of something for you to do :) On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > Hello everybody, > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? > My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. > I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services > to learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to > begin. > I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. > That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > What do you guys or girls think? > Thanks in advance, > Joseph > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- -- Leigh Honeywell http://hypatia.ca ============ nyetwork group http://nyetwork.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 18:47:00 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:47:00 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <17c359fc0601121041m3175ebd0w6f8fb3deef7f73fe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <17c359fc0601121041m3175ebd0w6f8fb3deef7f73fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007601c617a8$92731d00$81fbc645@unipc> What or where is the Linuxcaffe? Who is David? Is he on this list? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leigh Honeywell Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:42 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: jobs in Linux / IT Go hang out at Linuxcaffe. I'm sure David will think of something for you to do :) On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > Hello everybody, > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? > My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. > I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services to > learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to begin. > I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. > That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > What do you guys or girls think? > Thanks in advance, > Joseph > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- -- Leigh Honeywell http://hypatia.ca ============ nyetwork group http://nyetwork.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 18:55:43 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:55:43 -0500 Subject: Tux a http daemon or a suid like utility Message-ID: Hi, I am kind of confused. I have all along assumed tux was a kernel httpd for 2.4 when it threads (If I am not wrong) were not fast enough for a user level httpd. Since native posix threading library came out, this kernel httpd became unnecessary. I just looked at the running services and tux is there. I ended up on man pages and developed a feeling tux was a hal like utility. I am lost to think like that? What is the difference between HAL and tux? Thank you a lot in advance William Kihara Muriithi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 19:32:17 2006 From: nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:32:17 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <007601c617a8$92731d00$81fbc645@unipc> References: <17c359fc0601121041m3175ebd0w6f8fb3deef7f73fe@mail.gmail.com> <007601c617a8$92731d00$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <17c359fc0601121132v8f233cdj9e213d8c77a307e7@mail.gmail.com> My bad - http://linuxcaffe.ca it's at Harbord just south of the Christie subway David (who is on this list) is the guy who runs it :) -Leigh On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > What or where is the Linuxcaffe? > Who is David? Is he on this list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leigh > Honeywell > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:42 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: jobs in Linux / IT > > Go hang out at Linuxcaffe. I'm sure David will think of something for you > to do :) > > On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? > > My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. > > I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services to > > learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to begin. > > I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. > > That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > > What do you guys or girls think? > > Thanks in advance, > > Joseph > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > > -- > Leigh Honeywell > http://hypatia.ca > ============ > nyetwork group > http://nyetwork.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- -- Leigh Honeywell http://hypatia.ca ============ nyetwork group http://nyetwork.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 19:46:02 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:46:02 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <17c359fc0601121132v8f233cdj9e213d8c77a307e7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <17c359fc0601121132v8f233cdj9e213d8c77a307e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007701c617b0$d21e93a0$81fbc645@unipc> Thanks Leigh. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leigh Honeywell Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:32 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: jobs in Linux / IT My bad - http://linuxcaffe.ca it's at Harbord just south of the Christie subway David (who is on this list) is the guy who runs it :) -Leigh On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > What or where is the Linuxcaffe? > Who is David? Is he on this list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leigh > Honeywell > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:42 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: jobs in Linux / IT > > Go hang out at Linuxcaffe. I'm sure David will think of something for > you to do :) > > On 1/12/06, Joseph wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > Is it possible to learn Linux through volunteering? > > My background is in tech support but in non-Linux environment. > > I was wondering if it would be possible to exchange my services to > > learn Linux? It could be just doing installs for someone to begin. > > I think that it would be a great way to start learning Linux. > > That is if it would be possible to do it this way. > > What do you guys or girls think? > > Thanks in advance, > > Joseph > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > > -- > Leigh Honeywell > http://hypatia.ca > ============ > nyetwork group > http://nyetwork.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- -- Leigh Honeywell http://hypatia.ca ============ nyetwork group http://nyetwork.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 20:21:25 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:21:25 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? In-Reply-To: References: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43C6BA45.4040103@georgetown.wehave.net> Taavi Burns wrote: > I've been using greylist for a while now, and it seems to work pretty > well. The greylist scheme is: > * The first time address A sends mail from IP B to address C, it is > rejected with a temporary failure. > * If A tries again form B to C within a certain timeframe (there is a > minimum and maximum time limit, configurable), then the mail is > accepted. Excellent, I've thought so little about spam that I'd almost forgotten greylisting. I wrote a little postfix policy daemon at one point that did this, I'm sure by now there's something I can drop in. Will hunt for one and see how it goes. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 21:45:56 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:45:56 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT: Voltage Reduction Test Announced by IESO Message-ID: Just a heads up for anyone without a UPS. Though I don't really know myself, but I can't see a 3-5% reduction in voltage damaging a powersupply. Sags are more daminging than spikes IIRC however? Should I be worried? I am for the fact that I don't have a UPS, but not because of this announcement, just in general. Regardless of what I think, more here: http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 22:07:45 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:45 +0000 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: <17c359fc0601121132v8f233cdj9e213d8c77a307e7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <17c359fc0601121041m3175ebd0w6f8fb3deef7f73fe@mail.gmail.com> <007601c617a8$92731d00$81fbc645@unipc> <17c359fc0601121132v8f233cdj9e213d8c77a307e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C6D331.2090906@zen.co.uk> Cool, I wil have to check this out when I am in Toronto, Paul Leigh Honeywell wrote: >My bad - > >http://linuxcaffe.ca > >it's at Harbord just south of the Christie subway > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 22:14:43 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:14:43 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT: Voltage Reduction Test Announced by IESO In-Reply-To: <43C6CE14.6000604-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C6CE14.6000604@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060112221443.GE18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 04:45:56PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Just a heads up for anyone without a UPS. Though I don't really know > myself, but I can't see a 3-5% reduction in voltage damaging a > powersupply. Sags are more daminging than spikes IIRC however? Should I > be worried? I am for the fact that I don't have a UPS, but not because > of this announcement, just in general. > > Regardless of what I think, more here: > http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 Unless you have a very crappy power supply, 5% should be well within the tolerances on input voltage. Many power supplies will run anything bwtween 100 and 250V as input and adjust automatically to generate the correct output voltages. Maybe years ago we had power supplies that would only run at 110 to 115V or something, but I doubt that is the case with any modern power supply. So looking just a little, something like an Antec TruePower 480 seems to say it runs either 115 or 230V, although I am sure it has some tolerance. Meanwhile a PC Power and Colling TurboCool 510 has the input range of 90 to 264V automatic with supposedly a .99 power factor. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 22:24:50 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:24:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Semi-OT: Voltage Reduction Test Announced by IESO In-Reply-To: <20060112221443.GE18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C6CE14.6000604@utoronto.ca> <20060112221443.GE18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50747.207.188.65.194.1137104690.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Unless you have a very crappy power supply, 5% should be well within the > tolerances on input voltage. Many power supplies will run anything > bwtween 100 and 250V as input and adjust automatically to generate the > correct output voltages. > > Maybe years ago we had power supplies that would only run at 110 to 115V > or something, but I doubt that is the case with any modern power supply. > > So looking just a little, something like an Antec TruePower 480 seems to > say it runs either 115 or 230V, although I am sure it has some > tolerance. Meanwhile a PC Power and Colling TurboCool 510 has the input > range of 90 to 264V automatic with supposedly a .99 power factor. > > Len Sorensen Some power supplies can adjust automatically to the full 115 to 230 volt range. Some require you to move a switch. God help you and your computer if you put the switch in the 115 position and plug into 230, which is why the automatic versions are preferable. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Professor Emeritus, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ryerson University 416-465-3007 www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 12 23:18:24 2006 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:18:24 -0500 Subject: jobs in Linux / IT In-Reply-To: References: <005b01c61793$2e133580$81fbc645@unipc> Message-ID: <5425219F-F108-4B7F-BF6A-05B9782746F9@rogers.com> My personal opinion, rather than looking for an organization that needs Linux volunteers, you might have better look geetting involved in VERy small organizations, from your Rotiseree Baseball League, your kid's hockey team parent's group, a block organization or parish group, finding something they need but didn't realize the lack of, and developing a solution on your own. it may not directly involve running Linux, but provide that skill as a side effect of running a small database, or running some program you've developed. Tom -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 01:46:08 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:46:08 -0500 Subject: newtlug mailing list new address? In-Reply-To: <43C6B225.7060708-ID+zcogR9ZGkfRySEh1yXNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015201.4934.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <43C6B225.7060708@shinypinemusic.com> Message-ID: <43C70660.2040304@vianet.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: >> >> Could you try: >> >> leadpipe:~$ host -t mx newtlug.linux.ca >> newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 20 mx2.starnix.com. >> newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 10 mail.starnix.com. >> >> > [chris at p733 chris]$ host -t mx newtlug.linux.ca > newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 20 mx2.starnix.com. > newtlug.linux.ca mail is handled by 10 mail.starnix.com. > >> And confirm that you get the same results? Mail should go through after >> that. > Yes, I got a test through. Thank you, Matt. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 03:53:24 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:53:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh Message-ID: Hi all. During the talk last night a question arose about streaming all of the graphical data to a thin client via ssh. As noted last night this can be very cpu intensive. I'm running a test at the moment that demonstrates this well. I'm currently running xawtv[1] over ssh to a thin client. Xawtv is comsuming 56% cpu constantly on an Athlon-800 (avon). Nothing else is happening on avon. This gives an idea of how cpu intensive running even a single graphically intensive app via ssh can be. [1] tvtime refuses to start. A bit of RTFM suggests that the tvtime author doesn't support remote display with tvtime. This is a bit of a shame. I think I'll have to bend his ear a bit :) One solution which enables tvtime to run in a thin client environment is to put tvtime _in_ the thin client and start it by sshing to the thin client. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 04:35:50 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:35:50 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop Message-ID: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Hi I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux being optimum. Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? thanks. marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 04:43:21 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:43:21 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601122335.50965.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200601122343.21222.marc@lijour.net> On Thursday 12 January 2006 23:35, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, > Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) > > What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux being > optimum. > > Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > thanks. > > marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I found this link: http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=2072541&storeId=10000001&catalogId=-840&langId=-1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 04:55:56 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:55:56 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601122335.50965.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43C732DC.9020600@alteeve.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, > Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) > > What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux being > optimum. > > Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > thanks. > > marc As a former *huge* thinkpad fan I need to point out that "ThinkPad" is now owned by "Lenovo". They have the rights to the ThinkPad name for five years and IBM has a fairly big stake in their company (part of the same agreement) but otherwise no longer dictates the design of the machines. I personally now hesitate to buy ThinkPads... ArsTechnica had a review of a recent Lenovo ThinkPad and it looks like they are really going for the "hip/cool" thing and not doing such a great job at it. I have no basis for saying this, but my gut is preventing me from trusting the quality of ThinkPads any more. This from someone who used her ThinkPad three times as a bumper when crashing while roller blading... Currently I would actually trust the business-line laptops from either HP or Toshiba... Which depending on your particular tastes. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 05:06:06 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:06:06 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601122335.50965.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:35:50PM -0500, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application > server, Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux > distro :-) > > What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux > being optimum. > > Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? Have you considered Acer? Because - IBM don't make laptops anymore, and - Acer seems to be very aggressive in retail store, right now. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 05:11:06 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:11:06 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060113050605.GA28434-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43C7366A.1070500@alteeve.com> William Park wrote: > On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:35:50PM -0500, Marc Lijour wrote: >> Hi >> >> I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application >> server, Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux >> distro :-) >> >> What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux >> being optimum. >> >> Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > Have you considered Acer? Because > - IBM don't make laptops anymore, and > - Acer seems to be very aggressive in retail store, right now. Before I reply, I must admit to being something of a laptop fanatic and more than a little opinionated... Feel free to ignore me. :p I've had to fix a few laptops in my day and, save for iBooks, Acers are the worst to work on. That, and they cheap out on things they don't think the customer will notice like using sleeve-bearing fans for their laptop CPUs instead of paying the extra dollar for a ball bearing fan. One TLUG'er here knows the consequences of that a little too well... (fan tears it's sleeve and the oil "spins-out" over the internals of the laptop). Acer always has great benchmarks and always has a great price-point. Quality was the cost of that. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 05:56:36 2006 From: akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:26:36 +0530 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060113050605.GA28434-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1137131796.10703.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 00:06 -0500, William Park wrote: > Have you considered Acer? Because > - IBM don't make laptops anymore, and > - Acer seems to be very aggressive in retail store, right now. My knowledge of acer laptops are that they're pretty good for the amount. But compatibility with linux is really really bad. More so since I purchased a linux pre-installed laptop which I changed to ubuntu and could'nt get most of the things to work with no support available from wipro (the company that owns acer). Akshay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 06:04:00 2006 From: akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:34:00 +0530 Subject: List administrator Message-ID: <1137132240.10703.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Could someone point me to the list administrator please? I receive emails twice from the TLUG list (probably cos I have one copy forwarded from another email ID of mine, which I just can't remember doing) and want to find out if there is a way to search the mailing list database and remove my earlier email ID. Best regards, Akshay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 07:18:10 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:18:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. During the talk last night a question arose about streaming all > of the graphical data to a thin client via ssh. As noted last night > this can be Of course I meant Tuesday night, at the meeting. > very cpu intensive. I'm running a test at the moment that demonstrates > this well. > > I'm currently running xawtv[1] over ssh to a thin client. Xawtv is comsuming > 56% cpu constantly on an Athlon-800 (avon). Nothing else is happening on Well xawtv itself was consuming about 9% cpu constantly. The rest of the time avon was idle. > [1] tvtime refuses to start. A bit of RTFM suggests that the tvtime author > doesn't support remote display with tvtime. This is a bit of a shame. I > think I'll have to bend his ear a bit :) That's an Aussie saying for talking to him - I wasn't really going to bend his ear ;) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 09:11:41 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:11:41 +0200 (IST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. During the talk last night a question arose about streaming all of > the graphical data to a thin client via ssh. As noted last night this can be > very cpu intensive. I'm running a test at the moment that demonstrates this > well. > > I'm currently running xawtv[1] over ssh to a thin client. Xawtv is comsuming > 56% cpu constantly on an Athlon-800 (avon). Nothing else is happening on > avon. This gives an idea of how cpu intensive running even a single > graphically intensive app via ssh can be. > > [1] tvtime refuses to start. A bit of RTFM suggests that the tvtime author > doesn't support remote display with tvtime. This is a bit of a shame. I > think I'll have to bend his ear a bit :) tv and similar high speed display programs use X server extensions which allow the client to write directly (DMA-like on the PCI bus) to the screen. This requires that the display/server be local to the application. Try xawtv -remote meanwhile ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 11:16:18 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:16:18 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <1137131796.10703.9.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> <1137131796.10703.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43C78C02.1010900@rogers.com> Akshay Lamba wrote: > On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 00:06 -0500, William Park wrote: >> Have you considered Acer? Because >> - IBM don't make laptops anymore, and >> - Acer seems to be very aggressive in retail store, right now. > > My knowledge of acer laptops are that they're pretty good for the > amount. But compatibility with linux is really really bad. More so since > I purchased a linux pre-installed laptop which I changed to ubuntu and > could'nt get most of the things to work with no support available from > wipro (the company that owns acer). You might consider Angel Computers in Mississauga. They sell notebooks with Linux already loaded. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:20:46 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:20:46 -0500 Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060113142046.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 10:53:24PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. During the talk last night a question arose about streaming all > of the graphical data to a thin client via ssh. As noted last night this > can be very cpu intensive. I'm running a test at the moment that > demonstrates this well. > > I'm currently running xawtv[1] over ssh to a thin client. Xawtv is > comsuming 56% cpu constantly on an Athlon-800 (avon). Nothing else is > happening on avon. This gives an idea of how cpu intensive running even a > single graphically intensive app via ssh can be. > > [1] tvtime refuses to start. A bit of RTFM suggests that the tvtime > author doesn't support remote display with tvtime. This is a bit of a > shame. I think I'll have to bend his ear a bit :) Xvideo, Xshm and DGA and other such features are very handy for displaying large amounts of graphics very quickly and efficiently. Remote displays can't do any of them, and hence it makes perfect sense to not bother implementing any such things. Running a compressed video stream with something like vlc and having vlc run locally to decompress and then display using one of the much more efficient X interfaces makes a lot more sense for doing anything video related on a remote display. > One solution which enables tvtime to run in a thin client environment is > to put tvtime _in_ the thin client and start it by sshing to the thin > client. Certainly makes more sense. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:27:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:27:10 -0500 Subject: List administrator In-Reply-To: <1137132240.10703.12.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1137132240.10703.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060113142710.GH18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 11:34:00AM +0530, Akshay Lamba wrote: > Could someone point me to the list administrator please? I receive > emails twice from the TLUG list (probably cos I have one copy forwarded > from another email ID of mine, which I just can't remember doing) and > want to find out if there is a way to search the mailing list database > and remove my earlier email ID. Check the headers of the messages and see which address they were sent to and forwarded by. Then to unsubscribe the address you should be able to do: Mail to tlug-requests-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org with message: unsubscribe * email at address * means all lists. I suspect it will then send a confirmation, which of course you will get since it is also forwarded I imagine, and it should all work out. Of course I am not the list admin, I just read the majordomo help page. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:26:42 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:26:42 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? In-Reply-To: <20060112051403.GA7577-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060112051403.GA7577@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <43C7B8A2.7020008@utoronto.ca> When I receive mail on my imap inbox at the University of Toronto, I am trasparently authenticated to use the smtp server assigned to me because they remember the ip that accessed the imap server. The only annoyance is that it times out every now and then which is usually avoided by doing a get mail before I send mail. But of course this would be subject to a man in the middle attack, but for now it doesn't appear to be a problem. Is such a solution feasible in Linux? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:36:42 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:36:42 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601122335.50965.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 1/12/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, > Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) > > What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux being > optimum. > > Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > thanks. > > marc I've heard that *IBM* Thinkpads have pretty good Linux compatibility (Ubuntu, Debian, anyway), and I was just checking out IBM's "Certified" used thinkpads the other day: http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=124&catalogId=-124&langId=124&categoryId=2576396 You might be able to find a good deal there. Good luck! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:39:42 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:39:42 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <1137131796.10703.9.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> <1137131796.10703.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200601130939.42566.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Friday 13 January 2006 00:56, Akshay Lamba wrote: > On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 00:06 -0500, William Park wrote: > > Have you considered Acer? Because > > - IBM don't make laptops anymore, and > > - Acer seems to be very aggressive in retail store, right now. > > My knowledge of acer laptops are that they're pretty good for the > amount. But compatibility with linux is really really bad. More so since > I purchased a linux pre-installed laptop which I changed to ubuntu and > could'nt get most of the things to work with no support available from > wipro (the company that owns acer). Posting this from an Acer Travelmate TM4402WLMi Microsoft? Windows? XP Professional; AMD Turion? 64 Mobile Technology ML-30; 512MB (512/0) DDR333 SDRAM; 100GB hard drive; integrated DVD-Super Multi double-layer drive; 6-in-1 card reader; 15.4" WXGA (1280 x 800) TFT display; ATI? MOBILITY? RADEON? X700 graphics; 802.11b/g WLAN, gigabit LAN, V.92 modem Everything works perfectly under Kubuntu Linux. Suspend to disk, suspend to ram, power management, wireless, OpenGL, etc. Approx 3 hours battery life as well. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:39:45 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:39:45 -0500 Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: <20060113142046.GG18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060113142046.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C7BBB1.8080408@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 10:53:24PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: ----- snip -------------------- >> One solution which enables tvtime to run in a thin client environment is >> to put tvtime _in_ the thin client and start it by sshing to the thin >> client. > > Certainly makes more sense. > But the traffic between tvtime and the X server would be unencrypted in this case? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:42:52 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:42:52 -0500 Subject: newtlug mailing list new address? In-Reply-To: <20060112015201.4934.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112015201.4934.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <004601c6184f$a3522330$6400a8c0@unipc> I have been to the main http://tlug.ss.org but can't seem to find a subscription link to newtlug. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:52 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: newtlug mailing list new address? Has the list address for talk-Q3LYrvjeUVfMLq2q1+GOoQ at public.gmane.org changed? I just got a delivery error that host newtlug.linux.ca does not exist. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:45:05 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:45:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Peter wrote: > tv and similar high speed display programs use X server extensions which > allow the client to write directly (DMA-like on the PCI bus) to the screen. > This requires that the display/server be local to the application. Try xawtv > -remote meanwhile ? Hi Peter. I'm currently using xawtv -remote -noxv-image. This is working well enough for now. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:51:32 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:51:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: <20060113142046.GG18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060113142046.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Xvideo, Xshm and DGA and other such features are very handy for > displaying large amounts of graphics very quickly and efficiently. > Remote displays can't do any of them, and hence it makes perfect sense > to not bother implementing any such things. Running a compressed video This certainly seems to be his position. I don't agree that the suboptimal nature of a remote display of TV is sufficient reason not to implement the features once the core feature base is solid (which it is in the case of tvtime). I'd rather tvtime allow it to happen, perhaps with a warning. Of course this is OSS so a code fork is always an option :) Xawtv allows the tv to display remotely of course and it works very well. >> One solution which enables tvtime to run in a thin client environment is >> to put tvtime _in_ the thin client and start it by sshing to the thin >> client. > > Certainly makes more sense. This is how I've done it in the past but it does reduce flexibility about where you can display the tv tuner signal. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 14:52:18 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:52:18 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C7BEA2.1050003@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: ------------- snip ---------------------------------- >> Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 >> and the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or >> other and Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with >> co-ax and others not. All are ISA of course. > > Yay. Just pray they don't use isaPnP. That never worked properly. Is that an issue with the 2.6 kernel? I have an ISA pnp SoundBlaster and Debian unstable magically started to support it after I had got tired of configuring it. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 15:23:19 2006 From: akshay-c8nXU9rt5iNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:53:19 +0530 Subject: List administrator In-Reply-To: <20060113142710.GH18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1137132240.10703.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060113142710.GH18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1137165799.8428.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 09:27 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Mail to tlug-requests-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org with message: > unsubscribe * email at address > > * means all lists. > > I suspect it will then send a confirmation, which of course you will get > since it is also forwarded I imagine, and it should all work out. Thanks, that worked out wonderfully. Regards, Akshay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:02:13 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:02:13 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C7CF05.90500@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/8/06, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 1/4/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: >>> So the question became: is there an open source licence that would >>> restrict use to personal only, and not commercial? >> While everyone goes off into their tangents, if I ignore "open source" >> then the short answer is yes.. there is a license which will allow the >> source code to be re-distributed and not be available for commercial >> uses. > > But that wasn't the question. The question is whether or not there is > an open source license restricting use to "personal only." > > The answer is that there isn't one; there can't be. > > The usual definition of "open source" is found here... > > > Terms #5 and #6 between them reject this sort of discrimination > against commercial use. > > Ergo, you can't find an "open source" license of any sort that will be > suitable, because the desired form of discrimination is incompatible > with the notion of "open source." > > We're not going off on tangents; you, by changing subjects to non-OSS > licenses, are the one introducing tangents. Well yes and no. The problem here is communication. And since I'm jumping into the middle of this discussion I'm going to really muddy it up. I believe Aaron asked whether there was an open source license that prohibited commercial use, thinking that there was one. Since there isn't one, the question should have been: What software licence allows most uses except commercial? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:12:25 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:12:25 -0500 Subject: Solved! Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43C080F7.1030407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C080F7.1030407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C7D169.6030902@utoronto.ca> Should there be a wiki area on the web site detailing problems solved by TLUG members? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:32:00 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: Solved! Telling a browser to keep a connection alive In-Reply-To: <43C7D169.6030902-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C080F7.1030407@alteeve.com> <43C7D169.6030902@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C7D600.7020707@alteeve.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Should there be a wiki area on the web site detailing problems solved by > TLUG members? > > Ivan. Wouldn't be a bad idea... I've got my own wiki and I think I might start adding things like this to it, too. It would certainly be an interesting way to record stuff like this for posterity. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:43:21 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 13 Jan 2006 11:43:21 -0500 Subject: State of the art spam control? In-Reply-To: <43C7B8A2.7020008-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C26852.1070109@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060112051403.GA7577@waltdnes.org> <43C7B8A2.7020008@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Ivan Avery Frey writes: > When I receive mail on my imap inbox at the University of Toronto, I am > trasparently authenticated to use the smtp server assigned to me because they > remember the ip that accessed the imap server. > > The only annoyance is that it times out every now and then which is usually > avoided by doing a get mail before I send mail. > > But of course this would be subject to a man in the middle attack, but for > now it doesn't appear to be a problem. > > Is such a solution feasible in Linux? Yes but not recommended. For example, there's smtp-after-pop and smtp-after-imap. They just watch log files for successful imap/pop connections and then adjust the MTA's configuation. It's better to just use authenticated SMTP. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:43:38 2006 From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:43:38 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43BE7CED.7080907-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BE7CED.7080907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C7D8BA.3060809@gmail.com> well, tracked down the latest drivers (OK, OK, they're old) at http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=18&CatID=2080&SubCatID=111, and installed them. didn't make any difference, still can't change the resolution above 800x600, what step(s) am I missing? in fact, after changing the video card type to s3 savage4/savage, it reverted back to VESA driver (generic). obviously I've screwed up some where any and all help is appreciated -peter PW Armstrong wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TLUG]: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:21:33 -0500 From: PW Armstrong To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Len - Thx for the tips. Of course rh8 is long in the tooth, but > what do they say: so many distros, so little time? > > Thx regardless, will let you know how I make out. > > -Peter > > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: linux display driver for M810LMR > motherboard/prosavage4 graphics > Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:57:21 -0500 > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > >>On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 09:59:38AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: >> >> >>>Installed a new motherboard in my pc, an ASRock M810LMR. Everything is >>>fine, except for the video. There doesn't seem to be a linux display >>>driver for the chip-integrated video. Does anyone know of one/where I >>>can find one? Apparently the motherboard has "chip-integrated >>>ProSavage4 graphics". >>> >>>I'm running rh8. Thx very much. >>> >>> >> >>Try something MUCH newer than that old junk. There should be a driver >>if you have xfree86 4.x or newer called savage. >> >>Don't run distributions that are older than your hardware. >> >>Len Sorensen >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:56:54 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:56:54 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43C7CF05.90500-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> <43C7CF05.90500@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C7DBD6.9000704@telly.org> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Well yes and no. The problem here is communication. And since I'm > jumping into the middle of this discussion I'm going to really muddy > it up. > > I believe Aaron asked whether there was an open source license that > prohibited commercial use, thinking that there was one. > Some of the answers took the form of a plea to get the author to reconsider the "no commercial use" clause and choose genuine open source, given that licenses like the GPL prohibit competitors from closing off private copies. Another option suggested was a Qt-like dual license option, allowing the author to maintain proprietary rights while releasing a GPL version. > Since there isn't one, the question should have been: > > What software licence allows most uses except commercial? For that I would gladly refer people to the Creative Commons website, which easily allows authors (not just of software, but any creative work) to fine tune their licenses according to need. http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/meet-the-licenses HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 16:59:59 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:59:59 -0500 Subject: OT: non-commercial open source license? In-Reply-To: <43C7CF05.90500-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20601040738s6b2b378bqfe37135ed80cee8f@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601072208m1098e6cft2830fcdbb9992e93@mail.gmail.com> <43C7CF05.90500@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601130859g1ee2e6dcn949b93aa4754a0c4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks all for a very interesting and educational discussion. I definitely should have understood that restricting use in any way and "open source" are contradictory. The author has since considered a BSD-style license for his software, but doesn't seem too interested in actually pursuing it. So I'm going to write my own version of this application and GPL it. After all, where there's a need, the community will route around any blockages. :-) Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 17:30:21 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 13 Jan 2006 12:30:21 -0500 Subject: newtlug mailing list new address? In-Reply-To: <004601c6184f$a3522330$6400a8c0@unipc> References: <004601c6184f$a3522330$6400a8c0@unipc> Message-ID: "Joseph" writes: > I have been to the main http://tlug.ss.org but can't seem to find a > subscription link to newtlug. > Am I missing something? Yes: NewTLUG != GTALUG (or TLUG) http://newtlug.linux.ca/ Reciprocal links between the sites would be good, though. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 17:46:25 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:46:25 -0500 Subject: mplayer tricks Message-ID: <20060113174625.GA10213@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> The things you learn... I just discovered that mplayer will allow one to run its output in the console framebuffer, and that if you start it and flip over to another virtual console you get a movie playing (centered) above and can keep working in the console beneath it. Way cool. $ mplayer -vo fbdev2 -ao alsa -double -fs some.mpg Then use alt-[rightarrow] to slide over. How about that. All this, while trying to find out how to extract a timed portion of an mpg file. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 18:07:57 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:07:57 +0200 (IST) Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: <20060113142046.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Xvideo, Xshm and DGA and other such features are very handy for >> displaying large amounts of graphics very quickly and efficiently. >> Remote displays can't do any of them, and hence it makes perfect sense >> to not bother implementing any such things. Running a compressed video > > This certainly seems to be his position. I don't agree that the suboptimal > nature of a remote display of TV is sufficient reason not to implement the > features once the core feature base is solid (which it is in the case of > tvtime). I'd rather tvtime allow it to happen, perhaps with a warning. Of > course this is OSS so a code fork is always an option :) This is a hardware issue. The way direct X11 (aka overlay - hehe) works with xawtv is, the RISC cpu in the tv capture card is programmed to write data directly into the screen buffer, using the PCI bus. The CPU is not involved. That's why it's fast. For obvious reasons, you can't do this over the network. X11 is not fast enough for live video at 50fps and full screen with substandard hardware (like I and many others use - i.e. sub 1G cpus), but the real bottleneck is the network. Do some calculations, yourself. 16bpp with 750x350x50fps*2bytes/pixel = 26Mbytes/sec or twice as fast as the maximum throughput of 100MBps network, run peer to peer under optimal conditions. If you run a live encoder and watch the resulting ogg or avi or mpeg through the network with xine, f.ex., then you have better chances to make this work. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 18:33:56 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:33:56 -0500 Subject: mplayer tricks In-Reply-To: <20060113174625.GA10213-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060113174625.GA10213@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43C7F294.1050801@telly.org> Peter King wrote: >All this, while trying to find out how to extract a timed portion of an mpg file. > > Will Mplayer do that too? Thanks for the tip! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 18:51:04 2006 From: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org (Barnaby Jeans) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:51:04 -0800 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end Message-ID: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B075713E4@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Walter, We have recently updated the support site with the corrected information regarding the support lifecycle for XP Home. In short, XP Home will be supported for 2 years after Vista ships. For more information you can look at: http://news.com.com/False+alarm+over+Windows+support+deadline/2100-1016- 6026576.html?part=dht&tag=nl.e703 or to see the new information, re-visit: http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3221 Please let me know if you have any questions. Barnaby -- Barnaby Jeans IT Pro Advisor Microsoft Canada email & messenger: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org Barnaby's Canadian IT Pro WebLog - http://blogs.technet.com/Barnaby_Jeans/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:30 AM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end At least the "Home Edition", which is what most home machines use. No, I'm not joking. See Microsoft's webpage at... http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3221 "Business products" get longer support; Microsoft may play dirty, but they're not insane. This is a perfect opportunity for us to throw a lot FUD back at Microsoft, and advance linux. If nothing else, there'll be a lot of great deals on almost-new, barely-used computers that won't be powerful enough to run Vista, but which will be perfect for linux. We could work in an "environmentally-friendly" angle. "Don't replace your hardware, replace your software". Maybe we could even qualify for a government grant... aaaarrrrgggghhhh, what am I saying. I wouldn't be too surprised if Microsoft backed off for a year or so, like they did with Win98SE. But that'll simply make them look less trustworthy to the public. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 19:40:49 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:40:49 +0200 (IST) Subject: cdrwrite error caused by data ? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a cdrwrite problem. I am trying to burn a iso image of PCBSD-1.0 using cdrwrite on linux. The cdrwrite gives an IO error after 22MB ?! I tried to run it with -dummy and it gives the same error. I verified the file (538MB) and it is ok. I am stumped ?! - any ideas are welcome. thanks, Peter (note: burning a real disk stops after 22MB and gives the same error) (is someone playing a prank on me ?!) The output from cdrwrite is as follows: Waiting for reader process to fill input buffer ... input buffer ready. Starting new track at sector: 0 Track 01: 22 of 538 MB written (fifo 3%) [buf 100%] 8.1x.cdrecord: Input/output error. write_g1: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 2A 00 00 00 2D 0C 00 00 1F 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: F1 00 05 00 00 2D 0C 0C 00 00 00 00 10 02 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, deferred error, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x10 Qual 0x02 (id crc or ecc error) [No matching qualifier] Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 11532 (valid) cmd finished after 0.001s timeout 40s write track data: error after 23617536 bytes cdrecord: A write error occured. cdrecord: Please properly read the error message above. Writing time: 28.413s Average write speed 129.5x. Min drive buffer fill was 97% Fixating... WARNING: Some drives don't like fixation in dummy mode. Fixating time: 0.011s cdrecord: fifo had 404 puts and 373 gets. cdrecord: fifo was 4 times empty and 98 times full, min fill was 0%. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 20:01:22 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:01:22 -0500 Subject: HOWTO posted for iPod video on Ubuntu Message-ID: <200601131501.22848.jason@detachednetworks.ca> For whoever was asking previously http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=114946&highlight=gtkpod Nice step-by-step HOWTO, and a script to run it all. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:04:46 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:04:46 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20060113220446.GI18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 09:36:42AM -0500, Steve wrote: > I've heard that *IBM* Thinkpads have pretty good Linux compatibility > (Ubuntu, Debian, anyway), and I was just checking out IBM's > "Certified" used thinkpads the other day: Certainly in the past many of the not certified laptops were just about imposible to get X running on for quite a while due to having ATI mobility radeon chips with absolutely no drivers of any kind available, and if you could get a driver, often the power saving would screw it up, or something else would mess up. Actually my experience tends to be ATI laptop graphics causes pain unless the laptop is 2 or 3 years old when you start. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:06:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:06:10 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601130939.42566.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <20060113050605.GA28434@node1.opengeometry.net> <1137131796.10703.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200601130939.42566.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20060113220610.GJ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 09:39:42AM -0500, Jason Shein wrote: > Posting this from an Acer Travelmate TM4402WLMi > > Microsoft?? Windows?? XP Professional; AMD Turion??? 64 Mobile Technology ML-30; > 512MB (512/0) DDR333 SDRAM; 100GB hard drive; integrated DVD-Super Multi > double-layer drive; 6-in-1 card reader; 15.4" WXGA (1280 x 800) TFT display; > ATI?? MOBILITY??? RADEON?? X700 graphics; 802.11b/g WLAN, gigabit LAN, V.92 modem > > Everything works perfectly under Kubuntu Linux. Suspend to disk, suspend to > ram, power management, wireless, OpenGL, etc. Even the modem? Which WLAN chip? Which driver does it use? Does the card reader work? > Approx 3 hours battery life as well. Seems fairly typical on 15.4" AMD based laptops. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:08:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:08:04 -0500 Subject: X, Network transparency and ssh In-Reply-To: References: <20060113142046.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060113220803.GK18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 08:07:57PM +0200, Peter wrote: > This is a hardware issue. The way direct X11 (aka overlay - hehe) works > with xawtv is, the RISC cpu in the tv capture card is programmed to > write data directly into the screen buffer, using the PCI bus. The CPU > is not involved. That's why it's fast. For obvious reasons, you can't do > this over the network. > > X11 is not fast enough for live video at 50fps and full screen with > substandard hardware (like I and many others use - i.e. sub 1G cpus), > but the real bottleneck is the network. Do some calculations, yourself. > 16bpp with 750x350x50fps*2bytes/pixel = 26Mbytes/sec or twice as fast as > the maximum throughput of 100MBps network, run peer to peer under > optimal conditions. > > If you run a live encoder and watch the resulting ogg or avi or mpeg > through the network with xine, f.ex., then you have better chances to > make this work. Hence why I suggested VLC. VideoLan is what you want for something like that. Fast encoder and fast decoder. And the decoder running on the client can write directly to the X display's memory. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:10:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:10:17 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43C7D8BA.3060809-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BE7CED.7080907@gmail.com> <43C7D8BA.3060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060113221017.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 11:43:38AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > well, tracked down the latest drivers (OK, OK, they're old) at > http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=18&CatID=2080&SubCatID=111, > and installed them. > > didn't make any difference, still can't change the resolution above > 800x600, what step(s) am I missing? in fact, after changing the video > card type to s3 savage4/savage, it reverted back to VESA driver > (generic). obviously I've screwed up some where > > any and all help is appreciated Well you have to configure it to use the right driver, and you have to make sure the monitor settings are correct, otherwise the monitor settings limit the maximum resolution. And make sure no fb driver is messing with the chip either. You could attach your X config for someone to look at perhaps. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:13:47 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:13:47 -0500 Subject: cdrwrite error caused by data ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060113221347.GM18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 09:40:49PM +0200, Peter wrote: > I have a cdrwrite problem. I am trying to burn a iso image of PCBSD-1.0 > using cdrwrite on linux. The cdrwrite gives an IO error after 22MB ?! I > tried to run it with -dummy and it gives the same error. I verified the > file (538MB) and it is ok. I am stumped ?! - any ideas are welcome. Whatever is cdrwrite? I have used cdrecord for CD, growisofs for DVD, and cdrdao for CD and they all do a fine job. Of course you want to avoid the ide-scsi interface on 2.6 kernels. ide-cd works great. Of course make sure the media you use isn't crap, and that the drive isn't crap, and maybe try slowing down the speed in case the drive and media don't get along perfectly, but just OK. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 22:31:34 2006 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:31:34 -0500 Subject: Looking for a Linux SA Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027791E@jack.pcrepairs.com> Just thought I'd post here before starting to hunt elsewhere. I'm looking for a Linux SA that would be interested in doing contract work at this point in time. While I'm trying to spool up on Linux, I lost my regular Linux SA overseas. If anyone on the list is fairly experienced with basic Linux SA tasks, but that is not doing this as a separate company, please drop me a line. For now I'm primarily looking for occasional work mostly remote and in evenings. I'm still sorting out the client requirements so I don't have a complete job description as yet to post. For now I'm just testing the water for viability of this list as a source. Thanks, Ray ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 23:04:47 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:04:47 -0500 Subject: LInux support for the New intel Apple laptop? Message-ID: Does anyone have any pointers on installing Linux on the new apple intel machines? -Joseph- P.S. this may be a good alternative to IBM from now on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 23:19:29 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:19:29 -0500 Subject: Looking for a Linux SA In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027791E-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027791E@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <20060113231929.GA30273@ettin> On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 05:31:34PM -0500, Raymond J. Payne wrote: >I'm looking for a Linux SA that would be interested in doing contract >work at this point in time. While I'm trying to spool up on Linux, I >lost my regular Linux SA overseas. If anyone on the list is fairly >experienced with basic Linux SA tasks, but that is not doing this as a >separate company, please drop me a line. For now I'm primarily looking >for occasional work mostly remote and in evenings. I'm still sorting >out the client requirements so I don't have a complete job description >as yet to post. For now I'm just testing the water for viability of >this list as a source. I'm interested. My Resume: http://watson-wilson.ca/resumes/neils_resume.html -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 13 23:35:46 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:35:46 -0500 Subject: More Linux/Microsoft (anti) competitive infomation Message-ID: <1137195346.4226.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Lots of good computer industry background material at: http://lxer.com/ and DOJ site "http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm" If anyone has good resources for marketing info, rhetoric, etc. please let me know by posting or emailing me links. Thanks, RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca Including http://lxer.com/module/newswire/lf/view/50179/ Congress: Clear the Air and Stop Preloads Lxer Day Desk; By Tom Adelstein, Editor-in-Chief American consumers do not like living in the dark when it comes to products we buy. In that respect, we don't believe citizens of other countries do either. So, with consideration to the people who drive the US economy, we would like some straight answers to questions which should shine some light on an area of darkness with which we lived far too long. 1. Does the US Administration lobby on behalf of Microsoft and if so should it cease and desist from such activity? 2. We ask Congress to evaluate the administration's role with regard to Microsoft's monopoly. 3. We ask Congress and the President to prohibit Microsoft preloading agreements. 4. We ask for Congress to perform a comprehensive review of Microsoft's political activities including and starting with the House Ethics committee's failure to investigate the links between Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, Preston Gates &Ellis and the BSA. 5. We request Congress to enact laws requiring Original Equipment Manufacturers to disclose their policies with regard to selling Microsoft products. 6. We ask for schedules of payments to and from Microsoft and OEMs be disclosed immediately to the public so we can ascertain the influence exerted on consumers buying computers and computer related products. Consumer consumption determines the health of the US Economy. Some of us would prefer a return to manufacturing, distribution, exports and technological innovations. But poor decisions in the past have painted us into this corner. As consumers, we need more information about the products we buy. Today, for example, we know about the employee discounts for most automobile manaufacturers. We know a lot more about the availability of generic drugs versus name brand drugs whose patents have run out. Now, we believe we need to know more about the computer systems offered to us in stores and off web sites. So, we believe consumer advocates should lobby for a small set of simple requests with regard to the US computer industry as it affects consumers. Gives us the answers to these six questions or requests discussed below: 1. Does the US Administration lobby on behalf of Microsoft and if so should it cease and desist from such activity? In particular, we feel courious as to why the US Justice Department lobbied on behave of Micrsoft when the South Korea found Microsoft guilty of anti-trust. In an article entitled U.S. Wades Into Korea's Microsoft Controversy Chosun.com states: The U.S. Justice Department on Wednesday took the unusual step of sharply criticizing a decision by Korea?s Fair Trade Commission to fine Microsoft W33 billion (US$33 million) in an antitrust case, which it said went ?beyond what is necessary or appropriate.? (It went on to say) FTC director-general Kim Byung Bae said it was rare for the U.S. Justice Department to issue a statement on the matter since it was customary to respect decisions by partnering institutions. That was why the Korean government made no comment on a recent decision by the department to fine Samsung Electronics for price-fixing, Kim said. Asked if the U.S. statement could lead to a full-scale trade war, Kim said the FTC decision was based solely on whether Microsoft violated antitrust law or not, so it was not a trade issue. We're also concerned about the Administration's attempts to convince the European Union to back off on Microsoft. 2. We ask Congress to evaluate the administration's role with regard to Microsoft's monopoly. Our reference here relates to the fact that Microsoft and the Department of Justice reached settlements in which a District Court objected: The judge found it odd that Justice initiated a massive antitrust probe, found significant violations in the large market and only wrote a complaint alleging minor anticompetitive practices. He felt the decree didn't work in the public interest because: 1) It declined to provide the Court with the information it needed to make a proper determination. 2) The scope of the decree was too narrow. 3) The parties did not address other anticompetitive practices. 4) The Court was not satisfied that enforcement and compliance mechanisms were satisfactory. We wonder why the Department of Justice and Microsoft jointly appealed the Court's decision. 3. We ask Congress and the President to prohibit Microsoft preloading agreements. We feel that as long as Microsoft maintains their preloading agreements with Original Equipment Manufacturers, no one can break the Redmond Company's grip on the computer market. We believe it maintains an unfair monopoly restraining trade. While we can see the power of preloading an operating system today, we didn't think much about it in 1992. Today, 95% of the people who own computers use what comes on their PCs. Preload agreements seemed like a clever marketing tool. In the least they gave someone an edge. At the other end of the spectrum under the Sherman and Clayton acts they should be potentially felonious. Back when these agreements started, preloads gave OEM's a good price on DOS. But OEMs had to agree to buy Windows, too. They would have to pay for DOS and Windows for every computer they shipped, whether DOS and Windows were on it or not. 4. We ask for Congress to perform a comprehensive review of Microsoft's political activities including and starting with the House Ethics committee's failure to investigate the links between Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, Preston Gates &Ellis and the BSA. Recognizing that the Chairman of the House Ethics Committee represents Redmond, Washington, we wonder if he is so disposed as to keeping potential wrong doing from disclosure. We have knowledge of the Gates foundation contributing to the foundation Tom DeLay allegedly used to launder contributions to other candidates. 5. We request Congress to enact laws requiring Original Equipment Manufacturers to disclose their policies with regard to selling Microsoft products. We don't know what agreements exist today because disclosure goes beyond the scope of the US Government's enforcement of their agreement with Microsoft. Everything is done in secret without public disclosure. 6. We ask for schedules of payments to and from Microsoft and OEMs be disclosed immediately to the public so we can ascertain the influence exerted on consumers buying computers and computer related products. We simply want to know if Microsoft's monopoly position results in funds going back and forth between OEM's and Microsoft. For example, does Microsoft reward OEM's for recommending Microsoft XP? When Congress returns to work in January, we want these questions put on the Congressional agenda. We also request these questions be considered priorities. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 19:33:08 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:33:08 -0500 Subject: HOSUG meeting announcement 10 January 2006 In-Reply-To: <1136834888.1699.29.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1136834888.1699.29.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <1136835188.1699.31.camel@holden.weait.net> On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 14:28, interlug-list wrote: > HI All, > > This announcement is from the Hamilton Open Source User Group mailing > list. Reposted for your pleasure. The 10th! I mean Tuesday the Tenth! Oops. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 17:19:26 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:19:26 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <20060109170504.GJ26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> <43C2964E.2040701@gmx.de> <20060109170504.GJ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C29B1E.6000105@gmx.de> Ok, later tonight I will try "doing 'modprobe snd-usb-audio' then check /proc/asound/cards and aplay -l," when I am back home and have the speakers connected and on. Just now I checked to make sure that the 'audio' module isn't loaded, and it isn't. Thanks Len, Dominic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 17:05:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:05:04 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <43C2964E.2040701-Mmb7MZpHnFY@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> <43C2964E.2040701@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20060109170504.GJ26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:58:54AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > Ok, forget the last above comment. My mistake---usb-audio is a module, > it is not in /dev/snd. I found it under > /lib/modules/2.6.13-15.7-default/kernel/sound/usb. When I type in the > command 'ls -l /lib/modules/2.6.13-15.7-default/kernel/sound/usb' I get: > > total 136 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 . > drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 .. > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 98896 Nov 29 16:54 snd-usb-audio.ko > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19864 Nov 29 16:54 snd-usb-lib.ko > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Dec 7 19:32 usx2y > > 'usx2y" is blue; snd-usb-audio.ko and snd-usb-lib.ko are black. So usx2y is a directory and the other two are files. Doesn't mean much. Try doing 'modprobe snd-usb-audio' then check /proc/asound/cards and aplay -l Assuming the speakers are connected and on. Also make sure 'audio' module is NOT loaded. That is the old OSS driver for usb devices. 'lsmod|grep audio' and 'lsmod|grep snd' would be handy. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 19:28:08 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:28:08 -0500 Subject: HOSUG meeting announcement 08 January 2006 Message-ID: <1136834888.1699.29.camel@holden.weait.net> HI All, This announcement is from the Hamilton Open Source User Group mailing list. Reposted for your pleasure. To all Open Source Software Enthusiasts: As discussed last month, HOSUG's January meeting is set for Tuesday, January 10th from 7:00pm-10:00pm. It is once again in the Variety room next to the Staricase Caf? Theatre. This month's agenda includes: Administrative ============== Installfest planning - the situation so far Upcoming presentations Technical ========= We have two fun presentations again this month: 1) Wireless Router Hacks - Presented by "Ward River". This presentation will cover a few non-traditional uses for a wireless router. Ward will show you how ordinary, off-the-shelf devices can be given new meaning through F/LOSS. 2) Simon will discuss and demonstrate a nifty monitoring utility called "Cacti", which you can use to help manage devices on your network and plot interesting facts about your system. Cacti is Open Source software, uses common Open Source components and runs from a Linux/UNIX, Windows or OS X host system. As always, please pass the word about the next meeting to folks who are not yet on the mailing list. Adding your email address to the mailing list can be done with a request to "hosug-OWtkGUu/0bDYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org" or by signing up on the forums. Please note that this month we will be in the Variety Room, next door to the Staircase Caf? Theatre. It's the small building on the left, please enter by the rear door. The Variety Room and the Staircase Caf? Theatre are at 27 Dundurn North, one block north of King. See their website for directions and parking: Free parking can be found behind the theatre, at adjacent churches and in other nearby lots: LOT 1: Space for 10 cars, located behind the Theatre and Variety Room, LOT 2: Street parking on Breadalbane, LOT 3: The Chinese Christian Alliance Church, LOT 4: The Church of Christ the King School We can't wait to see you there! If you have any questions or require further information, please contact hosug-OWtkGUu/0bDYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 9 16:39:59 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:39:59 -0500 Subject: USB speakers with Linux: update In-Reply-To: <20060109162053.GH26580-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1F083.5010308@gmx.de> <1e55af990601090619y4ff76d04g84832cfa8ecc5e00@mail.gmail.com> <43C272EE.7030706@gmx.de> <43C27D1F.7090602@gmx.de> <20060109153232.GE26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43C28B83.5060405@gmx.de> <20060109162053.GH26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43C291DF.3010504@gmx.de> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:51AM -0500, Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > >> This is what I find under /proc/asound/cards: >> >>>> # ls -l /proc/asound/cards >>>> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:06 /proc/asound/cards >>>> >> This is what I find under /proc/asound/card0: >> >> # ls -l /proc/asound/card0 >> total 0 >> dr-xr-xr-x 9 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 . >> dr-xr-xr-x 5 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 .. >> dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 codec97#0 >> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 id >> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 intel8x0 >> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 9 11:05 oss_mixer >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0c >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm0p >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm1c >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm2c >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm3c >> dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jan 9 11:03 pcm4p >> >> When I just check under /proc/asound/ only the following files are blue: >> I82801DBICH4 -> card0; card0; oss; and seq >> > > 'cat /proc/asound/cards' lists the currently recognized cards. > > >> Again, I am still novice, so apologies for not knowing how to interpret >> this information.... >> > > Well that certainly looks like an intel i810 sound chip.A > > Do you have the module snd-usb-audio loaded at boot? > > What does 'aplay -l' list for available devices for playback? > > Len Sorensen > -- > ------------------------------------------------ > Here is what I get using 'cat /proc/asound/cards': 0 [I82801DBICH4 ]: ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with STAC9750,51 at 0xf0080400, irq 5 This is what 'aplay -l' gives me: **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 0: Intel ICH [Intel 82801DB-ICH4] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 0: I82801DBICH4 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4], device 4: Intel ICH - IEC958 [Intel 82801DB-ICH4 - IEC958] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 When I check under /dev/snd/ I do not find an entry for usb-audio, so I assume this means that the snd-usb-audio module is not loading at boot. Is this the problem? Thanks for your help, Len, Dominic > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 02:51:35 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:51:35 -0600 Subject: LInux support for the New intel Apple laptop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990601131851y3e63cc58x596fea71749d91fc@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > P.S. this may be a good alternative to IBM from now on. Here's hoping, but I'd personally be annoyed by not having the extra mouse button (do the laptops come with two yet?), and the keyboard layout would get to me. Those aside, I think the overall design and attention to detail could be well worth it, especially in a laptop. I mean.. a nicely backlit keyboard.. that alone. I did some poking around, and it looks like even the more dedicated sites don't have any info on these as yet. http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/apple.html http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=423#post423 (not that it's a particularly popular site in the first place..) In theory, the comments in a couple of the Slashdot threads on the topic might come up with something http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/22/2256231 http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/06/0730251 I'm not sure any of the Mac/PPC sites are agile enough to tune into the new hardware quiet yet.. or at least any newer info hasn't quite made it into google yet. I'm not in tune with the older mac/PPC+Linux-centric sites as yet, but those might be a good place to go. Wish I could post some links, but I'd be stabbing in the dark. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 03:50:00 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:50:00 -0500 Subject: LInux support for the New intel Apple laptop? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601131851y3e63cc58x596fea71749d91fc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601131851y3e63cc58x596fea71749d91fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601131950j375a0669m55f5997738155c53@mail.gmail.com> The big Linux PowerPC vendor is Yellow Dog Linux: http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/index.shtml/ Although there is no sign they'll come up with an x86 version that plays nice with Apple hardware. When people finally get these new Intel Macs and start playing with them we'll hear a lot more, and I for one am looking forward to it! Cheers, Aaron. On 1/13/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/13/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > P.S. this may be a good alternative to IBM from now on. > > Here's hoping, but I'd personally be annoyed by not having the extra > mouse button (do the laptops come with two yet?), and the keyboard > layout would get to me. Those aside, I think the overall design and > attention to detail could be well worth it, especially in a laptop. > > I mean.. a nicely backlit keyboard.. that alone. > > I did some poking around, and it looks like even the more dedicated > sites don't have any info on these as yet. > http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/apple.html > http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=423#post423 > (not that it's a particularly popular site in the first place..) > > In theory, the comments in a couple of the Slashdot threads on the > topic might come up with something > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/22/2256231 > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/06/0730251 > > I'm not sure any of the Mac/PPC sites are agile enough to tune into > the new hardware quiet yet.. or at least any newer info hasn't quite > made it into google yet. I'm not in tune with the older > mac/PPC+Linux-centric sites as yet, but those might be a good place to > go. Wish I could post some links, but I'd be stabbing in the dark. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 04:41:14 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:41:14 -0500 Subject: Looking for a Linux SA In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027791E-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027791E@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <43C880EA.3090200@alteeve.com> Raymond J. Payne wrote: > Just thought I'd post here before starting to hunt elsewhere. > > I'm looking for a Linux SA that would be interested in doing contract > work at this point in time. While I'm trying to spool up on Linux, I > lost my regular Linux SA overseas. If anyone on the list is fairly > experienced with basic Linux SA tasks, but that is not doing this as a > separate company, please drop me a line. For now I'm primarily looking > for occasional work mostly remote and in evenings. I'm still sorting > out the client requirements so I don't have a complete job description > as yet to post. For now I'm just testing the water for viability of > this list as a source. > > Thanks, > > Ray > ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Hello Ray, When you mentioned "not doing this as a separate company", do you mean privately? I do SA work in my day to day job and my company provides SA services to clients. Perhaps this causes a conflict? If not, I am quite interested in some extra work. I've attached my resume in PDF format format. Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing back from you. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 07:36:05 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 02:36:05 -0500 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end In-Reply-To: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B075713E4-dXJK5SiL78kMZs6+X9q5QUbaZq+k677m0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A@public.gmane.org> References: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B075713E4@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <43C8A9E5.1070901@utoronto.ca> Gasp! Microsoft is paying attention to us? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 12:08:14 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:08:14 +0200 (IST) Subject: cdrwrite error caused by data ? In-Reply-To: <20060113221347.GM18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060113221347.GM18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 09:40:49PM +0200, Peter wrote: >> I have a cdrwrite problem. I am trying to burn a iso image of PCBSD-1.0 >> using cdrwrite on linux. The cdrwrite gives an IO error after 22MB ?! I >> tried to run it with -dummy and it gives the same error. I verified the >> file (538MB) and it is ok. I am stumped ?! - any ideas are welcome. > > Whatever is cdrwrite? I have used cdrecord for CD, growisofs for DVD, > and cdrdao for CD and they all do a fine job. I meant cdrecord. Sorry. > Of course you want to avoid the ide-scsi interface on 2.6 kernels. > ide-cd works great. > > Of course make sure the media you use isn't crap, and that the drive > isn't crap, and maybe try slowing down the speed in case the drive and > media don't get along perfectly, but just OK. It was a file system error or some kind. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 14:31:22 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:31:22 -0500 Subject: can't remove gnome menu Message-ID: Hi all, I have a bit of an nagging problem with desktop menus. When I update an application, there's a duplicate menu that shows up in the list of application. I'm not too worried about the why there's another menu created. I just want to delete it. I did lots of googling and search on the gnome faq to no avail. The problem is, I right click on the menu item, then I'd like to click on remote this item but oopsm it's grayed out. I've also looked around for files so I can edit this menu out manually but it appears the munes are scattered over multiple files. Some in the .config directory and some in /etc/... Has anyone anykind of idea how those menus work? I'd like to know either which file to modify or how to make the "remove this item" menu available. Using FC3 and gnome 2.8. thanks Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 16:39:02 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:39:02 -0600 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end In-Reply-To: <43C8A9E5.1070901-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B075713E4@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <43C8A9E5.1070901@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601140839k14382f9fr2e359ad51f3b526a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/14/06, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Gasp! Microsoft is paying attention to us? Financial captial of Canada. Primary Linux user representation. There are presumably a number of tabs being kept on this list. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 16:50:07 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:50:07 -0500 Subject: Tick, Tick, Tick... XP to eXPire by year-end In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601140839k14382f9fr2e359ad51f3b526a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B075713E4@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <43C8A9E5.1070901@utoronto.ca> <1e55af990601140839k14382f9fr2e359ad51f3b526a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060114165007.GA702@ettin> On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 10:39:02AM -0600, Sy Ali wrote: >On 1/14/06, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> Gasp! Microsoft is paying attention to us? > >Financial captial of Canada. Primary Linux user representation. >There are presumably a number of tabs being kept on this list. < puts on tin foil hat > -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 18 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 17:20:57 2006 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:20:57 -0500 Subject: Looking for a Linux SA Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027099E28@jack.pcrepairs.com> I would like to thank everyone for the responses both in list and direct so far. Just a small clarification on why I'm not looking for a company for the contract work. The client that is going to be switching to Linux has asked not to use another company for this. Their feeling is that they do not wish to go through the paperwork required for NDAs and such for a company for what they feel is a small project at this time. My NDA allows hiring of individuals as either contractors or employees without revision. Hiring a third party company is excluded from the NDA I have with them, and therefore even if you have a company you'd have to be able to sign the non-discloser agreements personally instead of as a business. Thanks, Ray -----Original Message----- Raymond J. Payne wrote: > Just thought I'd post here before starting to hunt elsewhere. > > I'm looking for a Linux SA that would be interested in doing contract > work at this point in time. While I'm trying to spool up on Linux, I > lost my regular Linux SA overseas. If anyone on the list is fairly > experienced with basic Linux SA tasks, but that is not doing this as a > separate company, please drop me a line. For now I'm primarily looking > for occasional work mostly remote and in evenings. I'm still sorting > out the client requirements so I don't have a complete job description > as yet to post. For now I'm just testing the water for viability of > this list as a source. > > Thanks, > > Ray > ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 18:35:58 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:35:58 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices Message-ID: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am trying to figure out a way to query a *hard drive's* serial number that is connected over a USB/Firewire device. I've been able to piece together a script from stuff I found Googling that let's me get the serial number from IDE disks but apparently I can't use the same method for "SCSI" disks (as the USB disks show up as). I am looking for the serial number to make a more reliable "device id" number for my backup program. Currently I use the 'UUID' created by 'blkid' but it doesn't generate UUIDs for all partitions and if a given partition is reformatted the UUID changes and my backup program sees it as an entirely new device. If I can find a way reliably get each hard drive's serial number then I can easily generate my own device ID that will survive reformats and which I can generate for partitions that 'blkid' doesn't help with. If possible, I'd prefer to do this in Perl but I am not adverse to using C/C++ if it does a better job and/or is needed to do more low-level queries. Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 18:44:45 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:44:45 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9448E.3060409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> For the record/interest, here is the code that gets the IDE hard drive's serial number: -=-=-=-=- #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; use FileHandle; my $dev="hda"; my $read_id = new FileHandle; if ( $read_id->open("< /proc/ide/$dev/identify") ) { print "This appears to be an IDE disk.\n"; } else { die "I can't read any devices for: [$dev]\n"; } <$read_id>; my $sn = substr(<$read_id>,10,29).substr(<$read_id>,0,20); $sn=~s/2020//g; $sn =~ s/\ //g; my $serial; $serial.=chr(hex $_) foreach (unpack("a2" x 20,$sn)); print "The serial number of device: [$dev] is: [$serial].\n"; $read_id->close; exit(0); -=-=-=-=- Sample output: # ./test.pl This appears to be an IDE disk. The serial number of device: [hda] is: [3LF00S4C]. -=-=-=-=- I am not sure how reliable it is to use '/proc' though... I have a vague recollection that '/proc' was being phased out? If possible, I'd rather query a device directly. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 18:58:52 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:58:52 +0000 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9469D.7070705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> Cool that works fine on my system, i had to run it as root though, anyway, I have a routine somewhere that checks to see if you are logged in as root but that is a bash script, is there anything similar in perl that can be added to this? is 755 the correct permissions for this? IIRC the answer is yes. but anyone got any other suggestions that would be useful. Paul Madison Kelly wrote: > For the record/interest, here is the code that gets the IDE hard > drive's serial number: > > -=-=-=-=- > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use warnings; > use FileHandle; > > my $dev="hda"; > > my $read_id = new FileHandle; > if ( $read_id->open("< /proc/ide/$dev/identify") ) > { > print "This appears to be an IDE disk.\n"; > } > else > { > die "I can't read any devices for: [$dev]\n"; > } > > <$read_id>; > my $sn = substr(<$read_id>,10,29).substr(<$read_id>,0,20); > $sn=~s/2020//g; > $sn =~ s/\ //g; > my $serial; > $serial.=chr(hex $_) foreach (unpack("a2" x 20,$sn)); > print "The serial number of device: [$dev] is: [$serial].\n"; > $read_id->close; > exit(0); > -=-=-=-=- > > Sample output: > > # ./test.pl > This appears to be an IDE disk. > The serial number of device: [hda] is: [3LF00S4C]. > -=-=-=-=- > > I am not sure how reliable it is to use '/proc' though... I have a > vague recollection that '/proc' was being phased out? If possible, I'd > rather query a device directly. > > Madison > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 19:17:39 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:17:39 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C949EC.3080706-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> Paul Sutton wrote: > Cool that works fine on my system, i had to run it as root though, > anyway, I have a routine somewhere that checks to see if you are logged > in as root but that is a bash script, is there anything similar in perl > that can be added to this? > > is 755 the correct permissions for this? IIRC the answer is yes. but > anyone got any other suggestions that would be useful. > > Paul From my installer script: if ( $< ne "0" ) { die "I am sorry but this install script must be run by the root!"; } Madison PS - Yes, 755 is a good permission and yes, it needs to be run as root. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 19:22:16 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:22:16 +0200 (IST) Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9448E.3060409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> Message-ID: lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 19:29:35 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:29:35 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Peter wrote: > > lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB controller, not the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use USB drives with removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE ASIC's serial number my program would not be able to tell the difference between different hard drives connected through the common carrier. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 20:12:05 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:12:05 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9511F.1010602-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: When automount sets a hex string for the path, is that the serial number or the blkid uuid? -Joseph- On 1/14/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Peter wrote: > > > > lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial > > Thanks for the reply! > > Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB > controller, not the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use > USB drives with removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE ASIC's > serial number my program would not be able to tell the difference > between different hard drives connected through the common carrier. > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up > Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org > Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 20:20:35 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:20:35 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C95D13.60901@alteeve.com> Joseph Kubik wrote: > When automount sets a hex string for the path, is that the serial > number or the blkid uuid? > -Joseph- I'm not sure, I don't use 'automount' so I would have to play around with it to find out. Generally these days 'pmount' seems to be more common. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 20:49:06 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:49:06 +0000 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C94E53.3090009-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> Thanks paul Madison Kelly wrote: > Paul Sutton wrote: > >> Cool that works fine on my system, i had to run it as root though, >> anyway, I have a routine somewhere that checks to see if you are >> logged in as root but that is a bash script, is there anything >> similar in perl that can be added to this? >> >> is 755 the correct permissions for this? IIRC the answer is yes. but >> anyone got any other suggestions that would be useful. >> >> Paul > > > From my installer script: > > if ( $< ne "0" ) > { > die "I am sorry but this install script must be run by the root!"; > } > > Madison > > PS - Yes, 755 is a good permission and yes, it needs to be run as root. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 21:27:58 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:27:58 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C963C2.5050407-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43C96CDE.1090304@alteeve.com> Paul Sutton wrote: > Thanks > > paul No problem! I wanted to understand what was happening a bit better (as I said, I got that script working off of what I found Googling so I didn't really know how it worked). So I've expanded on it a bit to add comments explaining each step a little better. If you want to see the source data just 'cat' (as 'root') '/dev/ide/hdX/identify' and you will see a bunch of hex values. So here is the same script except now it takes the device from the command line and has a few more comments. Uncomment the 'print ...' statements to see what's happening as it runs, if you are curious. -=-=-=-=- #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; use FileHandle; my $dev; foreach ( @ARGV ) { $dev=shift; } if (( ! defined $dev ) || ( $dev eq "" )) { die "I'm sorry but you didn't define a device.\n"; } # Read in the 'identify' special file. my $read_id = new FileHandle; if ( $read_id->open("< /proc/ide/$dev/identify") ) { print "This appears to be an IDE disk.\n"; } else { die "I can't read any devices for: [$dev]\n"; } <$read_id>; # Join the end of the first line and the start of the second line from # '<$read_id>' into a string variable. my $hex_sn = substr(<$read_id>,10,29).substr(<$read_id>,0,20); #print "Raw: [$hex_sn]\n"; # Get rid of while spaces and hex space characters. $hex_sn=~s/[2020|\ ]//g; #print "Full: [$hex_sn]\n"; # Break up '$hex_sn' into up to 20 2-byte arbitrary binary data chunks # and chain the resulting 'chr/hex' values into '$serial'. my $serial; foreach (unpack("a2" x 20,$hex_sn)) { next if $_ eq ""; # print "Split: [$_]/[".chr(hex $_)."]\n"; $serial.=chr(hex $_); } # Done! Print the results and exit; print "The serial number of device: [$dev] is: [$serial].\n"; $read_id->close; exit(0); -=-=-=-=- # ./test.pl hda This appears to be an IDE disk. The serial number of device: [hda] is: [3LF3S4C]. -=-=-=-=- Madison PS - I'm still looking for a way to get the serial number from USB connected hard drives... :p -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 21:52:45 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:52:45 -0600 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C96CDE.1090304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> <43C96CDE.1090304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/14/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > PS - I'm still looking for a way to get the serial number from USB > connected hard drives... :p John DiMarco[1] maintains scsiinfo[2], a a SCSI information tool for Sun systems. cat /proc/scsi/scsi gives some info.. Is it relevant? I haven't tried it, but there is sdparm[3]. It says that it can get a serial number. quote: Unit serial number [page 0x80]; page abbreviation: "sn". This is a vendor specific (vendor format) serial number. [1] http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~jdd/ [2] ftp://ftp.cs.toronto.edu/pub/jdd/scsiinfo/README [3] http://sg.torque.net/sg/sdparm.html Some other random trails: * http://home.earthlink.net/~akonshin/delphi_components.htm * http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Programming_Languages/Pascal/Q_20585823.html * Search for info on getting the serial number from a memory stick or thumbdrive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 21:56:27 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:56:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: .ca dn registration - any recommendations for inexpensive registration? In-Reply-To: References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Peter Armstrong wrote: | | | > --- Leigh Honeywell wrote: | | > > On 12/13/05, Scott Elcomb | | > wrote: | | > > > Netfirms charges $9.95/yr - | | > > http://www.netfirms.ca/domain-names I just tried to transfer my .com registration to them. After spending a couple of hours at this, I have decided not to do so. Here is a summary of my adventures/discoveries. - for some reason, my FireFox thought the page was UTF-16 and showed Han characters and hex in boxes. I told it "UTF-8" (View: Character Code: UNICODE (UTF-8) and all worked. Odd! No idea why, so I don't know who to blame. - their web page did not work the way it was documented to (this may be related to something I discovered later). In particular, their article http://support.netfirms.com/article.php?id=33 says to "begin the signup process at http://www.netfirms.com" whatever that means. The next line may be the answer: select a hosting plan. But I don't want any hosting, so it is hard to choose a plan. - tech support pointed me at a page. I think that it was not the correct one since the prices were US$ whereas netfirms.ca has prices in C$. But I use it anyway. - I am asked to specify my domain name, select "DNS Transfer", and press search. (A tech support person agreed with my suggestion that I really should select "Registrar Transfer" instead; the web page description for each is essentially identical.) - when I clicked "search", all I got was that the domain "is unavailable". Makes one kind of sense: I already own that domain. But in another sense it doesn't: I'm asking for a transfer. - after talking to tech support for a while ("live chat" and by phone) it turns out that their account names are "domain names" (not really, but that is what they call them) and someone else has created an account with them with the name of my domain. Yikes! BTW, they told me his email address -- perhaps they should not have. Maybe Nepalese privacy laws are weaker than ours (his email address ended in .np). - BTW, "live chat" is a bit like "half-dead chat". Lots of delays in responses. Fine. But when I go away for 5 minutes, they terminate the call. On the other hand, they do answer the phone and don't seem to be clueless call-centre types. - They will not evict the guy from the "domain name" that is the same as the domain name I own. Even though the can see (from whois) that I do own it. I guess that it wouldn't upset me nearly as much if they called them "account names". - The upshot is that I cannot create a "domain name" (account name) with the name of my domain. The confusion of terms makes the conversation sounds a bit like "Who's on first". I asked if I could create the "domain name" ibm.com to create a login and they agreed that I could if it isn't taken (I doubt IBM uses them). I take all this trouble as a warning: what's life going to be like with them after the marriage? I'll go elsewhere. Now I'm open to suggestions. I want to renew a .com. My current Registration Service Provider is getting out of the business. I want no hosting: no mail hosting, no web hosting, and most of all, no DNS hosting. (Sales people at netfirms.ca *seemed* to understand this.) Actually, I would accept hosting if it were on my terms (like, for DNS hosting: that they accept zone transfers from my machines), but that is unlikely. I like paying as little as possible, for no good reason. The couple of hours I spent with this so far is an example of why price isn't everything. One thing that I liked about netfirms.ca is that they are a Toronto company. Oh well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:07:22 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:07:22 +0200 (IST) Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9511F.1010602-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > Peter wrote: >> >> lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial > > Thanks for the reply! > > Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB controller, not > the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use USB drives with > removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE ASIC's serial number my > program would not be able to tell the difference between different hard > drives connected through the common carrier. Afaik there is no way to access the attached IDE's ioctl functions (or SMART data for that matter) through a normal USB dongle. If there is one, I am interested too. I thought you used normal USB disk-on-key devices. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:11:25 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:11:25 +0200 (IST) Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> <43C96CDE.1090304@alteeve.com> <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/14/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> PS - I'm still looking for a way to get the serial number from USB >> connected hard drives... :p > > John DiMarco[1] maintains scsiinfo[2], a a SCSI information tool for > Sun systems. > > cat /proc/scsi/scsi gives some info.. Is it relevant? > > I haven't tried it, but there is sdparm[3]. It says that it can get a > serial number. quote: I don't think that it's going to work for IDE attached to a USB adaptor. At best, it may give the s/n of the usb-scsi driver. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:21:35 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:21:35 +0200 (IST) Subject: .ca dn registration - any recommendations for inexpensive registration? In-Reply-To: References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What about someone who deals in domains only ? Like dyndns.org ? Or someone like that in Canada ? by dyndns I mean this: http://www.dyndns.com/services/domains/ then there is this: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Servers/Address_Management/Dynamic_DNS_Services/ then: http://www.dyn.ca/ ($30/year) I am interested in this thread, please keep us current if you can. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:23:45 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:23:45 -0500 Subject: OT: hotmail management Message-ID: <43C979F1.6000100@georgetown.wehave.net> I came across this article yesterday and, though it is discussing the management of Microsoft services, I thought it might still be interesting for this group: A Conversation with Phil Smoot, The challenges of managing a megaservice, The Mount Everest of E-mail Services ... http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=353 What I found very interesting is that an 11 year Microsoftie would say the following: Our operations group never wants to rely on any sort of user interface. Everything has to be scriptable and run from some sort of command line. That?s the only way you?re going to be able to execute scripts and gather the results over thousands of machines. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:41:14 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:41:14 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C97E0A.5040508@alteeve.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Peter wrote: >>> >>> lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial >> >> Thanks for the reply! >> >> Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB >> controller, not the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use >> USB drives with removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE >> ASIC's serial number my program would not be able to tell the >> difference between different hard drives connected through the common >> carrier. > > Afaik there is no way to access the attached IDE's ioctl functions (or > SMART data for that matter) through a normal USB dongle. If there is > one, I am interested too. I thought you used normal USB disk-on-key > devices. > > Peter Aye... I am starting to think the same thing, though why I can't escapes me. I've found how to get the serial number off of actual SCSI devices, off of USB printers and such and I can read the drive's model number and firmware revision but just not the darn serial number itself! >.< If I do find a way though, I will certainly let you (and all) know, though I am not holding my breath now. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:46:25 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:46:25 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> <43C96CDE.1090304@alteeve.com> <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C97F41.4030000@alteeve.com> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/14/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> PS - I'm still looking for a way to get the serial number from USB >> connected hard drives... :p > > John DiMarco[1] maintains scsiinfo[2], a a SCSI information tool for > Sun systems. > > cat /proc/scsi/scsi gives some info.. Is it relevant? > > I haven't tried it, but there is sdparm[3]. It says that it can get a > serial number. quote: > Unit serial number [page 0x80]; page abbreviation: "sn". This is a > vendor specific (vendor format) serial number. > > > > [1] http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~jdd/ > [2] ftp://ftp.cs.toronto.edu/pub/jdd/scsiinfo/README > [3] http://sg.torque.net/sg/sdparm.html > > > Some other random trails: > * http://home.earthlink.net/~akonshin/delphi_components.htm > * http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Programming_Languages/Pascal/Q_20585823.html > * Search for info on getting the serial number from a memory stick or > thumbdrive. Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately, 'sdparm', 'scsiinfo' and such all see to just parse either '/proc/scsi...' or '/sys/block...'. Inside there I can read: akane:/home/digimer# cat /sys/block/sda/device/ block device_blocked power rev timeout delete max_sectors queue_depth scsi_level type detach_state model rescan state vendor akane:/home/digimer# cat /sys/block/sda/device/vendor /sys/block/sda/device/model /sys/block/sda/device/rev ST380011 A 3.06 Which, as you can see, is devoid of the blooming serial number... *sigh* Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 22:47:08 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:47:08 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9469D.7070705@alteeve.com> <43C949EC.3080706@zen.co.uk> <43C94E53.3090009@alteeve.com> <43C963C2.5050407@zen.co.uk> <43C96CDE.1090304@alteeve.com> <1e55af990601141352t569ca34as93237828184fafb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43C97F6C.9070500@alteeve.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Sy Ali wrote: > >> On 1/14/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> PS - I'm still looking for a way to get the serial number from USB >>> connected hard drives... :p >> >> John DiMarco[1] maintains scsiinfo[2], a a SCSI information tool for >> Sun systems. >> >> cat /proc/scsi/scsi gives some info.. Is it relevant? >> >> I haven't tried it, but there is sdparm[3]. It says that it can get a >> serial number. quote: > > I don't think that it's going to work for IDE attached to a USB adaptor. > At best, it may give the s/n of the usb-scsi driver. > > Peter Aye... for some reason the serial number just isn't shown... At this point I would just like to know why. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 23:25:33 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:25:33 +0200 (IST) Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: What you are asking for is, for the usb-scsi driver to map the VPD request to something that the USB dongle will recognize and use to convert into an IDE parameter fetch, then code this as a VPD and send it back. Imho, the chances of that being implemented are about zero. But I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Maybe the dongle sends the data with the ID but the usb-scsi layer filters it out. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 23:34:42 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:34:42 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43C98A92.1040909@alteeve.com> Peter wrote: > > What you are asking for is, for the usb-scsi driver to map the VPD > request to something that the USB dongle will recognize and use to > convert into an IDE parameter fetch, then code this as a VPD and send it > back. Imho, the chances of that being implemented are about zero. But > I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Maybe the dongle sends the data with the > ID but the usb-scsi layer filters it out. > > Peter Actually, that's exactly what looks like is happening... I know that the serial number should be in the VPD at 0x80 (with a little more info at 0x83) but I just can't seem to read it. Admittedly my experience reading devices directly is quite slim though, so here's to hoping I am missing something. :p In the mean time, I am now trying to figure out another way of uniquely identifying a given hard drive other than it's serial number. *sigh* Do you know the reason behind this not being available? Like, I can read the serial number off my digital camera and it's a vfat partition over a USB 1.1 link... Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 14 23:54:07 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:54:07 -0500 Subject: .ca dn registration - any recommendations for inexpensive registration? In-Reply-To: References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1137282847.4244.12.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I'm just in the process of transferring a domain from Network Solutions to Netfirms. $9.95US 1) Current domain registered with Network Solutions at $35.00US/year. I had to make sure my domain transfer wasn't locked at the Network Solutions control panel on my account. If 'lock' is on log in find the page to click then 'unlock'(very easy). 2) Check out FAQ at: http://www.netfirms.com/domain-names-tech for: How do I execute a registrar transfer for my Domain Name that I registered elsewhere? Click on the link and scroll down: https://secure.netfirms.com/signup/us-en/signup-fs_domainlookup? hostingproduct=hostingbasic 3) You'll need to create an account for basic hosting(free -- no charge -- no $$) to access your control panel to setup hosting, create sub-domain, a or mx records. Netfirms tech support has seemed kind of brain dead for me in the past at times but for low$$ accounts they're ok. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 16:56 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Peter Armstrong wrote: > | > | | > --- Leigh Honeywell wrote: > | | > > On 12/13/05, Scott Elcomb > | | > wrote: > | | > > > Netfirms charges $9.95/yr - > | | > > http://www.netfirms.ca/domain-names > > I just tried to transfer my .com registration to them. After spending a > couple of hours at this, I have decided not to do so. Here is a > summary of my adventures/discoveries. > > - for some reason, my FireFox thought the page was UTF-16 and showed > Han characters and hex in boxes. I told it "UTF-8" (View: > Character Code: UNICODE (UTF-8) and all worked. Odd! No idea why, > so I don't know who to blame. > > - their web page did not work the way it was documented to (this may be > related to something I discovered later). In particular, their > article http://support.netfirms.com/article.php?id=33 says to "begin > the signup process at http://www.netfirms.com" whatever that means. > The next line may be the answer: select a hosting plan. But I don't > want any hosting, so it is hard to choose a plan. > > - tech support pointed me at a page. I think that it was not the > correct one since the prices were US$ whereas netfirms.ca has > prices in C$. But I use it anyway. > > - I am asked to specify my domain name, select "DNS Transfer", and > press search. (A tech support person agreed with my suggestion that > I really should select "Registrar Transfer" instead; the web page > description for each is essentially identical.) > > - when I clicked "search", all I got was that the domain "is > unavailable". Makes one kind of sense: I already own that domain. > But in another sense it doesn't: I'm asking for a transfer. > > - after talking to tech support for a while ("live chat" and by phone) > it turns out that their account names are "domain names" (not > really, but that is what they call them) and someone else has > created an account with them with the name of my domain. Yikes! > BTW, they told me his email address -- perhaps they should not have. > Maybe Nepalese privacy laws are weaker than ours (his email address > ended in .np). > > - BTW, "live chat" is a bit like "half-dead chat". Lots of delays in > responses. Fine. But when I go away for 5 minutes, they terminate > the call. On the other hand, they do answer the phone and don't > seem to be clueless call-centre types. > > - They will not evict the guy from the "domain name" that is the same > as the domain name I own. Even though the can see (from whois) that > I do own it. I guess that it wouldn't upset me nearly as much if > they called them "account names". > > - The upshot is that I cannot create a "domain name" (account name) > with the name of my domain. The confusion of terms makes the > conversation sounds a bit like "Who's on first". I asked if I could > create the "domain name" ibm.com to create a login and they agreed > that I could if it isn't taken (I doubt IBM uses them). > > I take all this trouble as a warning: what's life going to be like > with them after the marriage? I'll go elsewhere. > > Now I'm open to suggestions. I want to renew a .com. My current > Registration Service Provider is getting out of the business. I want > no hosting: no mail hosting, no web hosting, and most of all, no DNS > hosting. (Sales people at netfirms.ca *seemed* to understand this.) > Actually, I would accept hosting if it were on my terms (like, for DNS > hosting: that they accept zone transfers from my machines), but that > is unlikely. > > I like paying as little as possible, for no good reason. The couple > of hours I spent with this so far is an example of why price isn't > everything. > > One thing that I liked about netfirms.ca is that they are a Toronto > company. Oh well. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 00:30:11 2006 From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:30:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album Message-ID: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> Greetings, I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running on Linux) that I can check out. Thanks Jason Carson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 00:54:45 2006 From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:54:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <49949.66.11.182.5.1137286485.squirrel@cbits.ca> I was checking out sourceforge and found a program called "Gallery" so I think I am going to use that unless somebody mentions something better. > Greetings, > > I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store > images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up > with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running > on Linux) that I can check out. > > Thanks > > Jason Carson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 01:29:27 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:29:27 -0500 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <43C9A577.7050201@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store > images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up > with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running > on Linux) that I can check out. I use digiKam, which Komes with KDE. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 02:00:16 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:00:16 +0200 (IST) Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <43C9A577.7050201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> <43C9A577.7050201@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, James Knott wrote: > Jason Carson wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store >> images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up >> with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running >> on Linux) that I can check out. > > I use digiKam, which Komes with KDE. I posted this link before on this list: http://furius.ca/curator/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 02:13:02 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad Slavoaca) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:13:02 -0500 Subject: .ca dn registration - any recommendations for inexpensive registration? In-Reply-To: <1137282847.4244.12.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <1137282847.4244.12.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: Personally, I recommend cadns.ca*; I've used them for several years, for several .ca domains, with no issues. They're also good for other TLDs, but a bit pricey compared to, say, 1and1.com. If you want built-in DNS services, and/or can spare a few extra dollars for top-notch service, go with easydns.com**. * I met the gentleman that runs cadns.ca and a general .com/.net/.org registrar a few years ago out in Whitby, hence my decision to go with 'em. For just domains, it's great. For hosting or anything else, look elsewhere. Especially since the hosting prices haven't been updated to reflect anything past 1996. ** I've also met and dealt with several of the people that run easydns.com. Cheers, -- Vlad On 1/14/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm just in the process of transferring a domain from Network Solutions > to Netfirms. $9.95US > > 1) Current domain registered with Network Solutions at $35.00US/year. I > had to make sure my domain transfer wasn't locked at the Network > Solutions control panel on my account. If 'lock' is on log in find the > page to click then 'unlock'(very easy). > > 2) Check out FAQ at: http://www.netfirms.com/domain-names-tech > for: How do I execute a registrar transfer for my Domain Name that I > registered elsewhere? Click on the link and scroll down: > https://secure.netfirms.com/signup/us-en/signup-fs_domainlookup? > hostingproduct=hostingbasic > > 3) You'll need to create an account for basic hosting(free -- no charge > -- no $$) to access your control panel to setup hosting, create > sub-domain, a or mx records. Netfirms tech support has seemed kind of > brain dead for me in the past at times but for low$$ accounts they're > ok. > > RickT > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 16:56 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > > > | On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Peter Armstrong wrote: > > | > > | | > --- Leigh Honeywell wrote: > > | | > > On 12/13/05, Scott Elcomb > > | | > wrote: > > | | > > > Netfirms charges $9.95/yr - > > | | > > http://www.netfirms.ca/domain-names > > > > I just tried to transfer my .com registration to them. After spending a > > couple of hours at this, I have decided not to do so. Here is a > > summary of my adventures/discoveries. > > > > - for some reason, my FireFox thought the page was UTF-16 and showed > > Han characters and hex in boxes. I told it "UTF-8" (View: > > Character Code: UNICODE (UTF-8) and all worked. Odd! No idea why, > > so I don't know who to blame. > > > > - their web page did not work the way it was documented to (this may be > > related to something I discovered later). In particular, their > > article http://support.netfirms.com/article.php?id=33 says to "begin > > the signup process at http://www.netfirms.com" whatever that means. > > The next line may be the answer: select a hosting plan. But I don't > > want any hosting, so it is hard to choose a plan. > > > > - tech support pointed me at a page. I think that it was not the > > correct one since the prices were US$ whereas netfirms.ca has > > prices in C$. But I use it anyway. > > > > - I am asked to specify my domain name, select "DNS Transfer", and > > press search. (A tech support person agreed with my suggestion that > > I really should select "Registrar Transfer" instead; the web page > > description for each is essentially identical.) > > > > - when I clicked "search", all I got was that the domain "is > > unavailable". Makes one kind of sense: I already own that domain. > > But in another sense it doesn't: I'm asking for a transfer. > > > > - after talking to tech support for a while ("live chat" and by phone) > > it turns out that their account names are "domain names" (not > > really, but that is what they call them) and someone else has > > created an account with them with the name of my domain. Yikes! > > BTW, they told me his email address -- perhaps they should not have. > > Maybe Nepalese privacy laws are weaker than ours (his email address > > ended in .np). > > > > - BTW, "live chat" is a bit like "half-dead chat". Lots of delays in > > responses. Fine. But when I go away for 5 minutes, they terminate > > the call. On the other hand, they do answer the phone and don't > > seem to be clueless call-centre types. > > > > - They will not evict the guy from the "domain name" that is the same > > as the domain name I own. Even though the can see (from whois) that > > I do own it. I guess that it wouldn't upset me nearly as much if > > they called them "account names". > > > > - The upshot is that I cannot create a "domain name" (account name) > > with the name of my domain. The confusion of terms makes the > > conversation sounds a bit like "Who's on first". I asked if I could > > create the "domain name" ibm.com to create a login and they agreed > > that I could if it isn't taken (I doubt IBM uses them). > > > > I take all this trouble as a warning: what's life going to be like > > with them after the marriage? I'll go elsewhere. > > > > Now I'm open to suggestions. I want to renew a .com. My current > > Registration Service Provider is getting out of the business. I want > > no hosting: no mail hosting, no web hosting, and most of all, no DNS > > hosting. (Sales people at netfirms.ca *seemed* to understand this.) > > Actually, I would accept hosting if it were on my terms (like, for DNS > > hosting: that they accept zone transfers from my machines), but that > > is unlikely. > > > > I like paying as little as possible, for no good reason. The couple > > of hours I spent with this so far is an example of why price isn't > > everything. > > > > One thing that I liked about netfirms.ca is that they are a Toronto > > company. Oh well. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 03:39:49 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:39:49 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601122335.50965.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 1/12/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, > Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) > > What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux >being optimum. > > Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to Lenovo. That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; IBM had been interested in this, but it now fades towards irrelevance. I think I'd instead be inclined to look at other vendors, particularly to look at those that sell laptops with Linux pre-loaded. For instance, these guys sell several laptops with Linux preloaded... Their 12" screen unit with the Via Antaur processor (this used to be the Cyrix line) seems attractive to me; it may be a bit wimpy, RAM-wise, tho other choices are doubtless available. That being said, the other laptop "getting on my head" is the 12" iBook, which is mostly similar, specs-wise, to the Via Antaur system... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 04:42:17 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:42:17 -0500 Subject: Handbrake [was Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter] Message-ID: <43C9D2A9.7020501@pppoe.ca> Stewart C. Russell wrote: Is this the same handbrake I know of? For me, it just works, straight out of the box! What distro and version are you using? I'm having problems :-( Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 05:01:06 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:01:06 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. > >They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to Lenovo. > >That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; > I'm not sure why you would say this. Upon what is based the assumption that Lenovo is less interested in Linux than IBM? IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without the Microsoft tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give you the option of the less-expensive XP Home. Most specialized Thinkpad support for Linux was developed by the community, not IBM. Significant proprietary software add-ons such as the "Access IBM" help system were never made available for Linux. My support calls were always met by polite reminders that official Linux Thinkpad support has never existed. Arguably community interest due to the large market share of Thinkpads has as much to do with their level of Linux support as anything IBM did. I subscribe to the linux-on-thinkpad mailing list; the only postings from ibm.com are "so-and-so is out of the office". OTOH, Lenovo's primary market (before buying the IBM PC biz) and home base is a country in which a third of the desktops already run Linux, and in which Linux cellphones are not uncommon. Given these observations, I am curious to know specifically what existing Linux support is considered to be at risk due to the Lenovo acquisition. If anything, I see a potential of _increased_ support. Maybe a Linux pre-load or at least a no-OS option. Heck, *any* official support is increased support. IBM's done many great things for Linux. But that's no reason to engage in FUD about Lenovo. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 05:37:22 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:37:22 -0600 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <49949.66.11.182.5.1137286485.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> <49949.66.11.182.5.1137286485.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601142137i6d4fdcc7ia1951862156c99d9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/14/06, Jason Carson wrote: > I was checking out sourceforge and found a program called "Gallery" so I > think I am going to use that unless somebody mentions something better. I've played with Gallery. While not perfect, it's pretty good. I don't think it would be an elegant solution for managing large collections.. shuffling things around etc. But as an online and multi-user gallery it works well for my uses. I'd expect a lot more from a standalone personal photobook .. These days I'm just using mediawiki because I don't have very many pictures and don't need features as such. My local stuff is just kept as good old files in directories, until that paradigm is replaced by archive management in a database one day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 07:08:10 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 09:08:10 +0200 (IST) Subject: they are so afraid Message-ID: The latest m$ security problem has prompted early patchers to be *afraid* of a patch issued by a *third* party: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/13/security_wmf_microsoft/ Well, as early adopters of 'N' *N-th* party patches which we (linux and OSS users) are, we could have a good laugh on that, no ? I think that the opposition can really talk (and write) itself into a panic. Let's help them a little with the fud (remember this message is archived on the Internet): Now, that they have prepared themselves so well to doubt the early solution provider, here is a little fud poison: how about, someone who read the above article, and finds a new hole, releases the new attack/exploit into the wild, and has an asociate with a trojaned fix waiting. When the new flaw will be discovered the early patchers will accept the trojaned new binary patch, and they will have to run it to find out if 'it does what the issuer says it does', since it comes without source. Of course, the malicious issuer, will have built suitable timers into his patch, knowing what will be looked for. Oh, and the patch, which is a Windows update, will be installed with Administrator privileges of course. There is no other way, you see. You have to trust someone eventually, no ? MUAHAHAHAHA (that would be a really sad situation, and it is waiting to happen any day now). And the only real solution to this that I can see is, that the non-malicious patch developer will have to sell the patch *source* to m$ or the powers that be, to be trusted. Either that, or publish it *open source*. Now take *this* for fud, closed source advocates. OSS is superior by design, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 12:09:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:09:40 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/12/06, Marc Lijour wrote: >> I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, >> Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) >> >> What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux >being optimum. >> >> Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. > > They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to Lenovo. > > That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; IBM had been > interested in this, but it now fades towards irrelevance. > > One thing to bear in mind, is that Lenovo is a Chinese company and China is encouraging the use of Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 12:16:20 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:16:20 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43C9D712.5030802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CA3D14.9000104@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without the Microsoft > tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give you the option of the > less-expensive XP Home. Most specialized Thinkpad support for Linux was > developed by the community, not IBM. Significant proprietary software > add-ons such as the "Access IBM" help system were never made available > for Linux. My support calls were always met by polite reminders that > official Linux Thinkpad support has never existed. Arguably community > interest due to the large market share of Thinkpads has as much to do > with their level of Linux support as anything IBM did. I subscribe to > the linux-on-thinkpad mailing list; the only postings from ibm.com are > "so-and-so is out of the office". Actually, a few years back, they did sell some computers with OS/2 and they also have a "Linux certified" list, which says what ThinkPads are known to work well with Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 12:38:56 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:38:56 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CA3D14.9000104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> <43CA3D14.9000104@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43CA4260.6000302@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without the Microsoft >> tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give you the option of the >> less-expensive XP Home. Most specialized Thinkpad support for Linux was >> developed by the community, not IBM. Significant proprietary software >> add-ons such as the "Access IBM" help system were never made available >> for Linux. My support calls were always met by polite reminders that >> official Linux Thinkpad support has never existed. Arguably community >> interest due to the large market share of Thinkpads has as much to do >> with their level of Linux support as anything IBM did. I subscribe to >> the linux-on-thinkpad mailing list; the only postings from ibm.com are >> "so-and-so is out of the office". > > Actually, a few years back, they did sell some computers with OS/2 and > they also have a "Linux certified" list, which says what ThinkPads are > known to work well with Linux. I forgot to mention, IBM employees can download Linux systems onto their computers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 13:18:51 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:18:51 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43C9D712.5030802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>; from evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 00:01:06 -0500 References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060115131851.GA1961@localhost> On Sun Jan 15,2006 12:01:06 AM Evan Leibovitch wrote: > IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without > the Microsoft tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give > you the option of the less-expensive XP Home. IBM did sell a laptop with Linux installed. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 14:13:17 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 09:13:17 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43C9D712.5030802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. > > > >They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to Lenovo. > > > >That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; > > > I'm not sure why you would say this. Upon what is based the assumption > that Lenovo is less interested in Linux than IBM? This is based on the fact that Lenovo has bought what was the most Microsoft-centred division of IBM. A major reason for the failure of OS/2, back in the day, was the fact that you couldn't buy machines from the PC Division with OS/2. The PC Division in effect was more tied to Microsoft than it was to the rest of IBM. One of the interesting factors about the sale of the PC Division to Lenovo is that it more or less eliminates, at one swell foop, the major ties between IBM and both Microsoft and Intel. > IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without the Microsoft > tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give you the option of the > less-expensive XP Home. Most specialized Thinkpad support for Linux was > developed by the community, not IBM. Significant proprietary software > add-ons such as the "Access IBM" help system were never made available > for Linux. My support calls were always met by polite reminders that > official Linux Thinkpad support has never existed. Arguably community > interest due to the large market share of Thinkpads has as much to do > with their level of Linux support as anything IBM did. I subscribe to > the linux-on-thinkpad mailing list; the only postings from ibm.com are > "so-and-so is out of the office". Exactly. That's the "PC Division" thing talking to you. I had a neighbour a few years ago who was a technical sales rep for the PC Division; the above was entirely consistent with his reaction to use of non-MSFT systems on their hardware. At the time, there wasn't "Linux support" elsewhere in IBM that would make it the least bit meaningful to debate Linux. I instead debated the merits of OS/2, and got precisely the same lack of interest. > OTOH, Lenovo's primary market (before buying the IBM PC biz) and home > base is a country in which a third of the desktops already run Linux, > and in which Linux cellphones are not uncommon. > > Given these observations, I am curious to know specifically what > existing Linux support is considered to be at risk due to the Lenovo > acquisition. If anything, I see a potential of _increased_ support. > Maybe a Linux pre-load or at least a no-OS option. Heck, *any* official > support is increased support. > > IBM's done many great things for Linux. But that's no reason to engage > in FUD about Lenovo. Lenovo's two biggest business partners that fall out of where they source "materials" are: a) Intel b) Microsoft And the staff that they drew from IBM are the "PC Division" folk that were always more loyal to their two business partners than to the rest of IBM. Lenovo no longer has the rest of IBM to push them to do the minimal things that they were doing to "support" Linux. The PC Division wasn't writing drivers or any such thing; all they did as "Linux support" was to list particular laptops that are (perhaps only partially) supported by one Linux distribution or another. Go to the Lenovo web site and try to find Linux support... There is something relevant, but you won't find it by searching the Lenovo site for it. For them to be considered "supportive of Linux" requires a pretty big organizational change that I don't see happening soon. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 14:20:30 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 09:20:30 -0500 Subject: Handbrake [was Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter] In-Reply-To: <43C9D2A9.7020501-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9D2A9.7020501@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <43CA5A2E.5070003@sympatico.ca> Meng Cheah wrote: > > What distro and version are you using? OS X Tiger. You don't want to know how hassle-free the installation is. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 14:46:14 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:46:14 +0000 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: <43CA6036.8050405@zen.co.uk> I use jalbum for producing the photo albums for the paignton rfc website, at www.paigntonrugby.net, it's very easy to use and has lots of different styles to choose from, if you check out the site, then first team, I have put some photos from games, there. I am in the process of re-writing the site, so it will look much better when this is complete, but the albums will be the same. paul Jason Carson wrote: >Greetings, > >I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store >images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up >with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running >on Linux) that I can check out. > >Thanks > >Jason Carson > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 14:47:15 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 09:47:15 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43CA6073.8070702@georgetown.wehave.net> Steve wrote: > I've heard that *IBM* Thinkpads have pretty good Linux compatibility > (Ubuntu, Debian, anyway), and I was just checking out IBM's > "Certified" used thinkpads the other day: I have the T41, I ran Debian on it for a while and later moved to Ubuntu. Sound and video worked flawlessly out of the box, suspend works as well ... I also run Xen on it full time without much impact. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 15:03:29 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:03:29 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CA3B84.9080504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> On Sunday 15 January 2006 07:09, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 1/12/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > >> I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, > >> Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) > >> > >> What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux > >> >being optimum. > >> > >> Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? > > > > Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. > > > > They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to > > Lenovo. > > > > That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; IBM had been > > interested in this, but it now fades towards irrelevance. > > One thing to bear in mind, is that Lenovo is a Chinese company and China > is encouraging the use of Linux. Thank you all for collaborating to this thread. It has become really interesting. Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & downloads section. No mention of linux there :( So far, not so good for linux support. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 15:04:24 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:04:24 -0500 Subject: Handbrake [was Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter] In-Reply-To: <43CA5A2E.5070003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9D2A9.7020501@pppoe.ca> <43CA5A2E.5070003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43CA6478.6040103@pppoe.ca> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: > >> >> What distro and version are you using? > > > OS X Tiger. You don't want to know how hassle-free the installation is. > You're right, I really don't want to know :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 16:37:34 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:37:34 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601151003.29962.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> Marc Lijour wrote: > Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a > couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & > downloads section. No mention of linux there :( There are different versions of support. 1. we support it 2. we support it, we even tried it once. If you have 6 months to wait we might be able to find a tech that can help. 3. we support it but we've never done it and I don't think we have anyone that could do it 4. we don't support it but we think it works 5. we know it doesn't work, we don't care, don't bug us Unfortunately you may find some large companies claiming to massively support Linux that advertise 1 but reality is 4. The T41 really does work, the only caveat I would have is that possibly newer models have different chipsets, I never trust vendors to keep things the same. I was about to suggest that if you really need Linux support that you should check out the laptop vendors advertising in Linux Journal, I recalled one called a Rhino ... searching for Rhino laptop in Google brought me to this link: http://emperorlinux.com/mfgr/ibm/toucan/ Turns out they are actually just preinstalling and bundling support around existing manufacturer's laptops. The Toucan series is just the Lenovo T42 and T43 with Linux installed ... they've done all the work to ensure that wifi, power management, etc. all works out of the box. They also have Dell, Sony and Sharp models to choose. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 18:10:42 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:10:42 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060115131851.GA1961@localhost> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> <20060115131851.GA1961@localhost> Message-ID: <43CA9022.1090201@telly.org> Scott Allen wrote: > On Sun Jan 15,2006 12:01:06 AM Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without >> the Microsoft tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give >> you the option of the less-expensive XP Home. > > > IBM did sell a laptop with Linux installed. > > > I sit corrected. I would note that the example above must have taken some digging; the system Scott indicated came preloaded with Caldera OpenLinux. Maybe one should never say never, but that's a pretty obscure counterexample. One could surmise that IBM toyed with official support at one time but then, for reasons unknown to us, dropped the idea. Certainly nothing publicly available in the current product line offers a Linux preload option. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 18:20:31 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:20:31 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CA7A4E.9000201-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a > > couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & > > downloads section. No mention of linux there :( The "no mention of Linux" on the Lenovo web site is a vastly more important datum than any opinions I may have expressed. > There are different versions of support. > > 1. we support it > 2. we support it, we even tried it once. If you have 6 months to wait > we might be able to find a tech that can help. > 3. we support it but we've never done it and I don't think we have > anyone that could do it > 4. we don't support it but we think it works > 5. we know it doesn't work, we don't care, don't bug us There might also be... 6. Someone has told us they had some success, but don't call us expecting any help. > Unfortunately you may find some large companies claiming to massively > support Linux that advertise 1 but reality is 4. I think there's a lot of "case #6" out there... > I was about to suggest that if you really need Linux support that you > should check out the laptop vendors advertising in Linux Journal, I like Phil Hughes comment on this... "Rather than complaining, I suggest shopping where Linux is appreciated." That doesn't forcibly require going to Linux Journal (though Phil would doubtless approve!); a quick Google search shows a number of relevant vendors. You can certainly do worse than EmperorLinux.com... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 18:29:16 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:29:16 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060113220610.GJ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601130939.42566.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20060113220610.GJ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200601151329.16732.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Friday 13 January 2006 17:06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 09:39:42AM -0500, Jason Shein wrote: > > Posting this from an Acer Travelmate TM4402WLMi > > > > Microsoft?? Windows?? XP Professional; AMD Turion??? 64 Mobile Technology > > ML-30; 512MB (512/0) DDR333 SDRAM; 100GB hard drive; integrated DVD-Super > > Multi double-layer drive; 6-in-1 card reader; 15.4" WXGA (1280 x 800) TFT > > display; ATI?? MOBILITY??? RADEON?? X700 graphics; 802.11b/g WLAN, > > gigabit LAN, V.92 modem > > > > Everything works perfectly under Kubuntu Linux. Suspend to disk, suspend > > to ram, power management, wireless, OpenGL, etc. > > Even the modem? Which WLAN chip? Which driver does it use? Does the > card reader work? Modem I am unsure about, due to the fact that I have no use for it. Everything else works. Wireless works but I do not use it because my network is 802.11a and the card reader works just fine. The only thing I had to do is update the pci.ids file from sourceforge in order for the kernel to identify all the hardware. Any time you are using hardware newer than the kernel you are running this is generally a good idea. Output of lspci jason at acer:~$ lspci 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS480 Host Bridge (rev 01) 0000:00:02.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS480 PCI-X Root Port 0000:00:06.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 5a38 0000:00:07.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 5a39 0000:00:13.0 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 USB Host Controller 0000:00:13.1 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 USB Host Controller 0000:00:13.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 USB2 Host Controller 0000:00:14.0 SMBus: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 SMBus Controller (rev 11) 0000:00:14.1 IDE interface: ATI Technologies Inc Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller ATI 0000:00:14.3 ISA bridge: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 PCI-ISA Bridge 0000:00:14.4 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 PCI-PCI Bridge 0000:00:14.5 Multimedia audio controller: ATI Technologies Inc IXP SB400 AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 02) 0000:00:14.6 Modem: ATI Technologies Inc ATI SB400 - AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 02) 0000:00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configu ration 0000:00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 0000:00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 0000:00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility X700 (PCIE) 0000:04:05.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4318 [AirForce One 54g] 802.11g Wireless LAN Controll er (rev 02) 0000:04:06.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCIxx21/x515 Cardbus Controller 0000:04:06.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller 0000:04:06.3 Mass storage controller: Texas Instruments PCIxx21 Integrated FlashMedia Controller 0000:04:06.4 0805: Texas Instruments PCI6411, PCI6421, PCI6611, PCI6621, PCI7411, PCI7421, PCI7611, PCI7621 Se cure Digital (SD) Controller 0000:04:07.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8169 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10) 0000:05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 18:39:58 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:39:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pardon me if I am a bit un-informed or something In-Reply-To: References: <1136869521.15410.8.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | randconfig means that random things get tried so that you have some | chances of noticing conflicting options. Yes. I think that the combinatorics of this is a little surprising and so worth a look. Too often options have unexpected relationships. Sometimes they show up in building, sometimes only at runtime. randconfig helps one find unexpected build relationships. A systematic approach would be most thorough. If there are a hundred binary options (and I think that there are more and not all are binary), then testing all different configs would take 2**100 kernel compiles. Too long to try. If there is a conflict between two arbitrary binary choices, then there is 1/2 * 1/2 chance that the conflict would be noticed by a randconfig compile. Or, to put it another way, 3/4 chance that it won't be found. Now do another randconfig compile, and the chance of the problem not being detected either time is 3/4 * 3/4 == 9/16. Better odds. If you try 10 randconfig builds, then the chances of missing a pairwise problem is 3**10 / 4**10 or about 5.63%. After 20, about 0.317%. This same kind of logic applies in more complex cases such as three options interacting badly or non-binary options. The confidence building advances a bit more slowly -- more randconfig builds are required to achieve the same probability of detection. In any case, 20 is a lot smaller than 2**100. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 19:13:00 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:13:00 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CA9EBC.2070401@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >>I'm not sure why you would say this. Upon what is based the assumption >>that Lenovo is less interested in Linux than IBM? >> >> > >This is based on the fact that Lenovo has bought what was the most >Microsoft-centred division of IBM. > > I'm not disputing that assertion. What puzzles me is the logic that concludes from this that the transfer to Lenovo will make Linux support suffer. It's hard to go deeper when you're already at the bottom. >One of the interesting factors about the sale of the PC Division to Lenovo is that it more or less eliminates, at one swell foop, the major ties between IBM and both Microsoft and Intel. > > Yes, which is good news for Linux boosters within the PC-free IBM. But that's a different story. >Lenovo's two biggest business partners that fall out of where they >source "materials" are: > a) Intel > b) Microsoft > > Lenovo is either China's largest PC maker or in the top three. In China Linux runs a third of the desktops (and growing), bolstered by government policy that's the friendliest in the world towards open source. One sample recent deal between a Chinese regional school board and the Sun Wah distribution sees Linux moving on to 140,000 desktops. Before getting the IBM PC division Lenovo bought Neoware, a company producing Linux-based thin clients. The company has also been producing its own Linux-based PCs since 2004: http://www.china.org.cn/english/scitech/92439.htm >Lenovo no longer has the rest of IBM to push them to do the minimal things that they were doing to "support" Linux. > I think you ought to learn a little more about Lenovo before saying this. It doesn't need any push from IBM. Already we are seeing signs of increased Linux support by Thinkpads after the Lenovo purchase. Here's a page, which did not IIRC exist before the purchase, describing the (not just testing, but) certification of Novell Linux and TurboLinux on Thinkpads: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-59116 (TurboLinux, which started in San Francisco, now has no North American presence but is pupular in China and Japan.) Lenovo has further demonstrated its worship of Microsoft by striking a deal with Sun to bundle StarOffice on Thinkpads, initaially in Singapore. >Go to the Lenovo web site and try to find Linux support... There is something relevant, but you won't find it by searching the Lenovo site for it. > > This will take time. Lenovo has been very careful to avoid any sudden shifts in policy that will make people (more) wary of post-IBM Thinkpads. I suspect if we could read Chinese, Linux support from Lenovo would be much easier to find. What we do definitely know is that the pre-purchase Lenovo was no Microsoft loyalist, and its domestic market demands Linux support which it has to date provided. These characteristics cannot avoid spilling over into the Thinkpad business, but this will be very gradually done. >For them to be considered "supportive of Linux" requires a pretty big organizational change that I don't see happening soon. > > How much do you know about Lenovo's organization? You keep speaking as if the IBM-PC MS-love philosophy is going to overrun that of the (larger) company that bought it, and I keep asking for any semblance of evidence. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 19:25:06 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:25:06 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >The "no mention of Linux" on the Lenovo web site is a vastly more >important datum than any opinions I may have expressed. > OK, I think we can put this FUD to rest definitively: http://www.lenovo.com/think/linux - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 19:28:16 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:28:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CAA192.60505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> The "no mention of Linux" on the Lenovo web site is a vastly more >> important datum than any opinions I may have expressed. >> > OK, I think we can put this FUD to rest definitively: > > http://www.lenovo.com/think/linux However, at the bottom of that page: Disclaimer We are providing the following information to assist our customers who are interested in using the Linux operating system. It is hoped that these materialswill be helpful to you. However, please understand that we are not in a position to assure the quality, function, performance or compatibility with this operating system. We also are not obligated to provide any maintenance or updates for the items. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 19:39:51 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:39:51 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CAA507.5050801@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> http://www.lenovo.com/think/linux > > > However, at the bottom of that page: > > Disclaimer > > We are providing the following information to assist our > customers who are interested in using the Linux operating > system. It is hoped that these materialswill be helpful to > you. However, please understand that we are not in a position > to assure the quality, function, performance or compatibility > with this operating system. We also are not obligated to > provide any maintenance or updates for the items. > I'm not saying that support couldn't be vastly improved, just indicating that the assertion "there's no recognition of Linux at Lenovo" is untrue. They don't (yet) offer full support but they are providing assistance to customers who want to use Linux. That's a good first step and far better than the situation before the Lenovo purchase. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 19:54:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:54:02 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601151003.29962.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43CAA85A.3020708@telly.org> Marc Lijour wrote: >Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & downloads section. No mention of linux there :( So far, not so good for linux support. > > While the debate on support *by* Thinkpad (Lenovo) rages elsewhere, I can state that support *for* the T41 is extremely good at this point. Using Mandriva 2006 on my T41, the installation recognized and works fine with - both touchpad and eraserhead pointers - hot-plugging into the Thinkpad docking station (and unplugging) - drivers for the onboard ATI video and LAN - Sound and brightness buttons above the keyboard (with on-screen display) - suspend - hot-plugging and automounting for USB pendrives and memory card readers - battery-status monitors - both wireless and wired LAN adaptors - The DVD-reader/CD-writer I haven't tested infrared networking or the Linmodem driver (that I downloaded but never installed). My system does not have the fingerprint reader so I can't comment on that. There's also an active linux-on-thinkpad mailing list: http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 20:03:33 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:03:33 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CAA192.60505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >The "no mention of Linux" on the Lenovo web site is a vastly more > >important datum than any opinions I may have expressed. > > > OK, I think we can put this FUD to rest definitively: > > http://www.lenovo.com/think/linux That URL gets immediately redirected to an IBM site. http://www-307.ibm.com/ And the killer question: How do you find that URL from elsewhere at the Lenovo web site? If you search the Lenovo site looking for "Linux", you just get pointers to IBM Global Services. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 21:51:02 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:51:02 -0500 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki Message-ID: I came across this link that may be of interest to some: http://pedia.media.mit.edu/index.php/One_Laptop_per_Child Note, the site seems slow - the pages took about a minute to display.. The machine will run Linux, according to the site. There's also preliminary hardware specs available; briefly: - Processor: AMD Geode GX500 at 1.0W with AMD CS5536 companion chip - Memory: 128MB DRAM, possibly DDR Mobile - Nonvolatile storage: 512MB (possibly 1GB) NAND flash memory - BIOS/loader: hardware details TBD; either conventional, or maybe LinuxBIOS, if available in time. - Audio: AC97 codec (chip TBD; we are down to probably two or three alternatives), built-in stereo speakers and mono microphone, jacks for external stereo speakers and microphones - External ports: four USB2.0, one supporting On-The-Go functionality - Display: dual-mode, based on a 7.2" diagonal 800x600 monochrome TFT panel - Input devices: keyboard, trackpad - Wireless: Atheros AR5004G or AR5004GS chip, 802.11b/g. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 22:01:31 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:01:31 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CAC63B.5060306@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >That URL gets immediately redirected to an IBM site. http://www-307.ibm.com/ > > ... which means nothing of consequence, considering that as we know thinkpads still get to use the IBM name for a period of time. The top of the page says Lenovo and the look-and-feel of the site is clearly no longer IBM's (no blue), yet the copyright at the bottom says IBM. So what? Let's cut some slack during what is still very much a transition process; Lenovo has barely been able to make its mark on its new acquisition. >And the killer question: How do you find that URL from elsewhere at >the Lenovo web site? If you search the Lenovo site looking for >"Linux", you just get pointers to IBM Global Services. > > It's hardly a killer question; indeed, it's a technical rather than a political/policy one. To find the page myself, I had to do the horribly difficult chore of googling "lenovo linux"; it's not the first time that I've found Google's search capabilities to surpass those of the sites themselves. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 22:43:06 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:43:06 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: On 1/12/06, Indy Singh wrote: > > > You are driving along in your car on a wild, stormy night. You pass by a > bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the bus: > > 1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die. > 2. An old friend who once saved your life. > 3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been dreaming about. > > Which one would you choose to offer a ride to, knowing that there could > only be one passenger in your car. > > Think before you continue reading. This is a moral/ethical dilemma that > was once actually used as part of a job application. Interesting question .. obviously, I don't think far enough outside the box. I imagined stoppping, helping the old lady into the car, saying hello to my old friend and asking the young lady for her phone number in case the bus has come by the time I come back to pick her up. That's a cute question, but it's tough to imagine using a brain teaser in an interview situation unless you were trying to figure out if the candidate in question was really quite smart (but having a bad day) or a dolt (but making a lot of good guesses). Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 23:51:39 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:51:39 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CAE00B.7010006@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/15/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. >>> >>> They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to Lenovo. >>> >>> That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; >>> >> I'm not sure why you would say this. Upon what is based the assumption >> that Lenovo is less interested in Linux than IBM? > > This is based on the fact that Lenovo has bought what was the most > Microsoft-centred division of IBM. > > A major reason for the failure of OS/2, back in the day, was the fact > that you couldn't buy machines from the PC Division with OS/2. The PC > Division in effect was more tied to Microsoft than it was to the rest > of IBM. Actually, you could. Several models were available with OS/2. And there was even a system, where, at first boot, you selected which OS you wanted to use. Also, one *BIG* reason why IBM stopped supporting OS/2, was extortion by MS, when Windows 95 was released. MS wouldn't let IBM have a competitive price for Windows, unless they stopped marketing OS/2. This is described in the MS trial transcripts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 23:52:58 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:52:58 -0500 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > I came across this link that may be of interest to some: > http://pedia.media.mit.edu/index.php/One_Laptop_per_Child > Note, the site seems slow - the pages took about a minute > to display.. > > The machine will run Linux, according to the site. > > There's also preliminary hardware specs available; briefly: > > - Processor: AMD Geode GX500 at 1.0W with AMD CS5536 companion chip > - Memory: 128MB DRAM, possibly DDR Mobile > - Nonvolatile storage: 512MB (possibly 1GB) NAND flash memory > - BIOS/loader: hardware details TBD; either conventional, or maybe LinuxBIOS, if available in time. > - Audio: AC97 codec (chip TBD; we are down to probably two or three alternatives), built-in stereo speakers and mono microphone, jacks for external stereo speakers and microphones > - External ports: four USB2.0, one supporting On-The-Go functionality > - Display: dual-mode, based on a 7.2" diagonal 800x600 monochrome TFT panel > - Input devices: keyboard, trackpad > - Wireless: Atheros AR5004G or AR5004GS chip, 802.11b/g. The really dumb part is that they seem to be trying to make these devices *only* readily available if you are a government educational ministry buying them in bulk. It seems to me that there would be a *huge* win in trying to seed these as widely as possible, *period.* The "Simputer" was a somewhat similarly-intended design... It failed, in great part because they never got enough units pushed out to get prices to the promised point. That would support my contention of trying to shove them out even to people interested in not-strictly-educational uses ;-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 15 23:53:18 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:53:18 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601151003.29962.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <43CAE06E.404@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > On Sunday 15 January 2006 07:09, James Knott wrote: >> Christopher Browne wrote: >>> On 1/12/06, Marc Lijour wrote: >>>> I am after a good IBM laptop to do development (Java application server, >>>> Eclipse most of all) and of course to run my favorite Linux distro :-) >>>> >>>> What's the best one out there right now? I assume support for Linux >>>>> being optimum. >>>> Does somebody know of a good place/site where to buy it? >>> Well, the modern problem iis that IBM no longer sells laptops. >>> >>> They sold the laptop division (possibly the whole "PC Division") to >>> Lenovo. >>> >>> That doesn't bode particularly well for Linux support; IBM had been >>> interested in this, but it now fades towards irrelevance. >> One thing to bear in mind, is that Lenovo is a Chinese company and China >> is encouraging the use of Linux. > > Thank you all for collaborating to this thread. It has become really > interesting. > Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a > couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & > downloads section. No mention of linux there :( > So far, not so good for linux support. How do you know that it's not already supported by Linux? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 00:10:38 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:10:38 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> Message-ID: <43CAE47E.8030106@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> The "no mention of Linux" on the Lenovo web site is a vastly more >>> important datum than any opinions I may have expressed. >>> >> OK, I think we can put this FUD to rest definitively: >> >> http://www.lenovo.com/think/linux > > However, at the bottom of that page: > > Disclaimer > > We are providing the following information to assist our > customers who are interested in using the Linux operating > system. It is hoped that these materialswill be helpful to > you. However, please understand that we are not in a position > to assure the quality, function, performance or compatibility > with this operating system. We also are not obligated to > provide any maintenance or updates for the items. > How does that significantly differ from many other disclaimers? Ever check the MS EUA? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 00:58:46 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:58:46 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CAC63B.5060306-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <43CA7A4E.9000201@georgetown.wehave.net> <43CAA192.60505@telly.org> <43CAC63B.5060306@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >And the killer question: How do you find that URL from elsewhere at > >the Lenovo web site? If you search the Lenovo site looking for > >"Linux", you just get pointers to IBM Global Services. > > > > > It's hardly a killer question; indeed, it's a technical rather than a > political/policy one. To find the page myself, I had to do the horribly > difficult chore of googling "lenovo linux"; it's not the first time that > I've found Google's search capabilities to surpass those of the sites > themselves. No, this is NOT a technical question. How easy it is to find Linux support on the Lenovo site most certainly *does* tell us something about what kind of priority it represents to them. If they thought it was important to their sales effort, a link to that page would be prominent. The fact that they don't make it easy (possible?) to find it without resorting to outside resources is a message, and not a technical one. I'll bet that if you call someone at Lenovo and ask about Linux support, you'll not have a particularly easy time finding it. That has been my experience in talking with them in person... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 01:03:07 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:03:07 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601151003.29962.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CA3B84.9080504@rogers.com> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search and a > couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the drivers & > downloads section. No mention of linux there :( > So far, not so good for linux support. Some formal testing has been done; here are the results. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 01:03:15 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:03:15 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43CAC63B.5060306@telly.org> Message-ID: <200601152003.15919.marc@lijour.net> On Sunday 15 January 2006 19:58, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/15/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >And the killer question: How do you find that URL from elsewhere at > > >the Lenovo web site? If you search the Lenovo site looking for > > >"Linux", you just get pointers to IBM Global Services. > > > > It's hardly a killer question; indeed, it's a technical rather than a > > political/policy one. To find the page myself, I had to do the horribly > > difficult chore of googling "lenovo linux"; it's not the first time that > > I've found Google's search capabilities to surpass those of the sites > > themselves. > > No, this is NOT a technical question. > > How easy it is to find Linux support on the Lenovo site most certainly > *does* tell us something about what kind of priority it represents to > them. In that regards, it is important to me, the buyer. If I don't find linux somewhere (and quickly) I will move on. It is not like the old times, when laptop and linux where 2 words dangerous when pronounced at the same time. Nowadays some laptops even comes with linux installed. So why bother more for a vendor (which support for linux starts on the wrong foot)? Vendor, if you read this list, and you want my business, then take the linux market into account (and give me a discount for the tip :) ). > > If they thought it was important to their sales effort, a link to that > page would be prominent. The fact that they don't make it easy > (possible?) to find it without resorting to outside resources is a > message, and not a technical one. > > I'll bet that if you call someone at Lenovo and ask about Linux > support, you'll not have a particularly easy time finding it. That > has been my experience in talking with them in person... > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 01:05:03 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:05:03 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> On Sunday 15 January 2006 20:03, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/15/06, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Somebody suggested the T41. I went to the lenovo web site to do a search > > and a couple of links have popped up. I tried one and I went to the > > drivers & downloads section. No mention of linux there :( > > So far, not so good for linux support. > > Some formal testing has been done; here are the results. > > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) Thank you! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 02:03:26 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:03:26 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: On 1/15/06, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 1/12/06, Indy Singh wrote: > > > > You are driving along in your car on a wild, stormy night. You pass by a > > bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the bus: > > > > 1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die. > > 2. An old friend who once saved your life. > > 3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been dreaming about. > > > > Which one would you choose to offer a ride to, knowing that there could > > only be one passenger in your car. > > > > Think before you continue reading. This is a moral/ethical dilemma that > > was once actually used as part of a job application. > > Interesting question .. obviously, I don't think far enough outside the > box. > > I imagined stoppping, helping the old lady into the car, saying hello to my > old friend and asking the young lady for her phone number in case the bus > has come by the time I come back to pick her up. > > That's a cute question, but it's tough to imagine using a brain teaser in > an interview situation unless you were trying to figure out if the candidate > in question was really quite smart (but having a bad day) or a dolt (but > making a lot of good guesses). This strikes me as a stupid question to use. There is no "moral dilemna"; it's a pure hypothetical case where the answer you're *supposed* to give is the "old lady." You essentially have three choices: a) Show yourself to be "kindly to the elderly", which bodes well for the firm as you are thinking of legal consequences... b) Show off a preference for "personal preference" which implies you're not thinking about corporate legal liability... c) Show off a preference for "being a player" which implies that you're a sexual harassment suit waiting to become... a corporate legal liability... :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 04:58:44 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:58:44 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <200601152005.04424.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: I just wanted to add to this whole raging Thinkpad support debate. I have a Thinkpad T42, and it works flawlessly with Linux, out of the box, with virtually every distribution I've tried. The most I've ever had to do is use yum to download some missing RPMs, most notably the modem and wireless drivers for Fedora Core 4. Ubuntu (Edubuntu, Kubuntu) recognized every piece of hardware in the thing. I think the only thing that is not well supported is hot swapping Ultrabay devices. If you have specific questions about my Thinkpad config, ask away, and I'll do my darndest to answer. ;-) pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 06:27:12 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:27:12 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20060116062712.GA6807@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:44PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > I just wanted to add to this whole raging Thinkpad support debate. > > I have a Thinkpad T42, and it works flawlessly with Linux, out of the box, > with virtually every distribution I've tried. The most I've ever had to do > is use yum to download some missing RPMs, most notably the modem and > wireless drivers for Fedora Core 4. Ubuntu (Edubuntu, Kubuntu) recognized > every piece of hardware in the thing. > > I think the only thing that is not well supported is hot swapping Ultrabay > devices. > > If you have specific questions about my Thinkpad config, ask away, and I'll > do my darndest to answer. ;-) What's the cpu and chipset? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 09:08:54 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:08:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > The really dumb part is that they seem to be trying to make these > devices *only* readily available if you are a government educational > ministry buying them in bulk. I recently read that they will be available for $100 to governments / educational institutions, and for $200 for public use. behdad > It seems to me that there would be a *huge* win in trying to seed > these as widely as possible, *period.* > > The "Simputer" was a somewhat similarly-intended design... > It failed, in great part > because they never got enough units pushed out to get prices to the > promised point. > > That would support my contention of trying to shove them out even to > people interested in not-strictly-educational uses ;-). > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 09:12:44 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:12:44 +0200 (IST) Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: >> You are driving along in your car on a wild, stormy night. You pass by a >> bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the bus: >> >> 1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die. >> 2. An old friend who once saved your life. >> 3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been dreaming about. >> >> Which one would you choose to offer a ride to, knowing that there could >> only be one passenger in your car. >> >> Think before you continue reading. This is a moral/ethical dilemma that >> was once actually used as part of a job application. > > Interesting question .. obviously, I don't think far enough outside the box. > > I imagined stoppping, helping the old lady into the car, saying hello to my > old friend and asking the young lady for her phone number in case the bus > has come by the time I come back to pick her up. > > That's a cute question, but it's tough to imagine using a brain teaser in an > interview situation unless you were trying to figure out if the candidate in > question was really quite smart (but having a bad day) or a dolt (but making > a lot of good guesses). The correct answer to such a question in a job interview would be to ignore it and take the next one. If pressed, say you do not consider it relevant to the job and would handle it when and where encountered, should such an unlikely situation occur. The likelihood of such a situation occuring is of course about zero, and as such, no matter what you answer would not be relevant to anyone. Also as an engineer, you could point out that given the very low probability of such a situation occuring, it would fit the situation that you would probably be driving your regular car which has at least three free seats excepting your own, and that your cell phone would be in working order, so you could order a taxi or an ambulance if needed, or call the bus dispatcher info number and see if the buses are running. Idiotic questions should be reserved for IQ tests and the people rating them had better know what they are doing. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 13:25:09 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:25:09 -0500 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org> References: <49801.66.11.182.5.1137285011.squirrel@cbits.ca> Message-ID: Hey hey! Was just looking for the same actually. I downloaded digikam last night. Haven't played around too much yet so I can't really offer an opinion... http://www.digikam.org Martin Greetings, I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running on Linux) that I can check out. Thanks Jason Carson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 13:39:39 2006 From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:39:39 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BBE@RIKER> How about giving the passenger seat to the old lady and giving your seat to the old friend (who has displayed a talented in the past for saving lives). I like this answer because: 1) It maximizes the possibility that the old lady will survive 2) I spend time alone with the person of my dreams (albeit at a bus stop on a wild, stormy night) - so my own ambitions are met. 3) It displays the "outside-the-box" (God I hate that cliche) thinking these hokey test are usually looking for -----Original Message----- From: Alex Beamish [mailto:talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:43 PM To: TLUG Subject: [TLUG]: Re: [tpm] Job interview question On 1/12/06, Indy Singh < indy-k5e8U2l/CWTzIImvGDD8mw at public.gmane.org > wrote: You are driving along in your car on a wild, stormy night. You pass by a bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the bus: 1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die. 2. An old friend who once saved your life. 3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been dreaming about. Which one would you choose to offer a ride to, knowing that there could only be one passenger in your car. Think before you continue reading. This is a moral/ethical dilemma that was once actually used as part of a job application. Interesting question .. obviously, I don't think far enough outside the box. I imagined stoppping, helping the old lady into the car, saying hello to my old friend and asking the young lady for her phone number in case the bus has come by the time I come back to pick her up. That's a cute question, but it's tough to imagine using a brain teaser in an interview situation unless you were trying to figure out if the candidate in question was really quite smart (but having a bad day) or a dolt (but making a lot of good guesses). Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 14:18:25 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:18:25 -0500 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200601160918.26967.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Monday 16 January 2006 08:25, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hey hey! > > Was just looking for the same actually. I downloaded digikam last night. > Haven't played around too much yet so I can't really offer an opinion... > > http://www.digikam.org > > Martin > > Greetings, > > I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store > images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up > with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running > on Linux) that I can check out. > > Thanks > > Jason Carson I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but f-spot works extremely well. http://f-spot.org/Features There are a couple of good reviews here: http://www.writingup.com/f_spotter/introduction_to_the_f_spot_photo_manager http://www.linux-mag.com/content/view/2290/ ( free registration required ) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 14:19:35 2006 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:19:35 -0500 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki Message-ID: I don't object to any charity work. But I am wondering if so many kids are under poverty, no food, no place to live, what's the point we send them notebooks? Why don't we just spend this much money helping them surviving first? PQ -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Behdad Esfahbod Sent: January 16, 2006 4:09 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > The really dumb part is that they seem to be trying to make these > devices *only* readily available if you are a government educational > ministry buying them in bulk. I recently read that they will be available for $100 to governments / educational institutions, and for $200 for public use. behdad > It seems to me that there would be a *huge* win in trying to seed > these as widely as possible, *period.* > > The "Simputer" was a somewhat similarly-intended design... > It failed, in great part > because they never got enough units pushed out to get prices to the > promised point. > > That would support my contention of trying to shove them out even to > people interested in not-strictly-educational uses ;-). > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:43cb62c029441098116065! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 14:58:11 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:58:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: <50348.207.188.65.194.1137423491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > The correct answer to such a question in a job interview would be to > ignore it and take the next one. If pressed, say you do not consider it > relevant to the job and would handle it when and where encountered, > should such an unlikely situation occur. It may be that the point of asking such a question is not to get an answer but to see how the interviewee reacts to being asked a wierd question. I recall the description of an interview where the candidates were given a puzzle to solve - removing a ball from a container with a couple of sticks. In fact, it was impossible to remove the ball but the interviewers wanted to see how long the interviewee would persist and whether they would lose their temper. In my opinion, this sort of thing is too clever by half. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Professor Emeritus, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ryerson University 416-465-3007 www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 15:05:46 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:05:46 -0500 Subject: LInux support for the New intel Apple laptop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10601160705k15bab346m3092e544bd3f94e1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Does anyone have any pointers on installing Linux on the new apple > intel machines? > -Joseph- The latest Distrowatch Weekly mentions the new Apple Intel-powered laptops: "If you are wondering why none of the current Linux distributions will boot on these system, let's quote an expert. Answering the question "Is Fedora prepared for Intel-based Macs?", Red Hat's Peter Jones had this to say on the Fedora development mailing list: "No. Off the top of my head: our x86 kernels don't have CONFIG_EFI; installer doesn't do GPT partitioning on x86; we don't have a bootloader for them." Trying to translate the above into plain English, the main problem with MacBook Pro is that it no longer uses BIOS (Basic Input/Output System); instead, it ships with the new EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), developed by Intel, to perform all the early communication between different hardware parts. Although EFI does have BIOS emulation support, Apple has reportedly decided to remove it from their MacBooks. The second issue is GPT (which stands for GUID Partition Table, with GUID being an acronym for Globally Unique Identifier), which is effectively a replacement for the MBR (Master Boot Record) in EFI-based systems. Among the popular boot loaders, neither LILO, nor GRUB 0.9x support GPT, although the new GRUB 2 (currently in alpha development) does include support for the new standard. Unfortunately, not a single Linux distribution has been bold enough to switch to GRUB 2, but it is possible that more effort will go into this area in the coming months, especially if EFI-based motherboards become widespread." But free software developers are working on it. More info at http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060116 Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 15:28:47 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:28:47 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: <50348.207.188.65.194.1137423491.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> <50348.207.188.65.194.1137423491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <43CBBBAF.2040708@telly.org> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >I recall the description of an interview where the candidates were given a puzzle to solve - removing a ball from a container with a couple of sticks. In fact, it was impossible to remove the ball but the interviewers wanted to see how long the interviewee would persist and whether they would lose their temper. > >In my opinion, this sort of thing is too clever by half. > > Agreed. But from the employer's perspective, the job interview is a relatively short period of time with which to evaluate someone's temperament, ability to work with others, and stress handling. By the time a company has made the hire -- even with a probationary period -- the employer has invested time and money so it wants to make the right choice. Unlike resumes, references and certifications, this is the one evaluation that the interviewer gets to conduct first-hand rather than taking someone else's word. It's by far the hardest part of the evaluation to fake or prepare for. Peter's right in that the value of these tests may as often be the evaluation of one's reaction to the test rather than performance in the test itself. An employer looking for discipline, especially in a non-management position, _wants_ to see if the seemingly-dumb request is met with challenge or ridicule. This works both ways, since the candidate also has limited time to evaluate whether the company is worth working for. The values of the employer and the true nature of the job, determined through the choice of interview questions, are also harder to fake than the job posting. One can argue that you'd never want to work in a place that would conduct such a test, so such an exercise reveals important things to the candidate as well as employer. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 15:51:32 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:51:32 -0500 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/16/06, Phillip Qin wrote: > I don't object to any charity work. But I am wondering if so many kids are > under poverty, no food, no place to live, what's the point we send them > notebooks? Why don't we just spend this much money helping them surviving > first? That's not the point of the exercise. Children that have neither food nor a place to live will not be going to a school where they would be getting one of these laptops. The point of the project isn't to fix poverty, but rather to provide help to those that are outside that most extreme level of poverty. Many welfare programs are kind of designed to end as soon as the immediately perceived disaster has been averted. But that's only the beginning, in a sense. It's not much good if you keep the kids from starving in the famine if they are still left completely vulnerable to the next problem that comes along. The point of the project may not even be to help any sort of "most impoverished:" if what it *does* do is to expand a "middle class" in these countries, namely people that are neither the filthy rich (where, with the high levels of corruption of the third world, "filthy" is pretty accurate) nor the "dirt poor." It tends to be from a "middle class" that you see an emergence of meaningful civil society. Encouraging THAT may be one of the best things that can happen for these countries. This is a bit analagous to the issue of "How can you spend on a space program when there are homeless in the streets?"; part of the answer is that there aren't always ways for spending to actually SOLVE the problems of the homeless. Another part is that if there are enough useful spin-offs, sometimes spending money on expensive things can be a good deal. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 16:16:03 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:16:03 -0500 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phillip Qin wrote: > I don't object to any charity work. But I am wondering if so many kids > are under poverty, no food, no place to live, what's the point we send > them notebooks? Why don't we just spend this much money helping them > surviving first? It would be a huge target platform for Linux and "open" software. Also, education-ware, IMHO, is still a segment that's been poorly addressed. That was my main point. The politics of the machine are off-topic, so I'll just say that the "developing" world is developing - not everyone there is starving. If you just send food, then you'll always be sending food. If you send the tools that some of the locals can use to improve the local conditions, then some benefits could hopefully flow to the impoverished. > On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > The really dumb part is that they seem to be trying to make these > > devices *only* readily available if you are a government educational > > ministry buying them in bulk. I guess the marketplace will answer. They can always change the policy later. Dealing with something that's wildly popular, is a "problem" that has lots of solutions. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 16:31:47 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:31:47 +0000 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43CBCA73.8020602@zen.co.uk> Open source aside, by giving a child a laptop you are allowing that child to learn, in the same way a child who can afford a computer can, that child can gain computer skills, do homework, do better work adn get better grades, as a result they are then more employable, get better jobs and hopefully get out of poverty, so their children will have a better life than them. This is far better I guess than gving them money to spend on what they like. Of if these kids are homeless you need to deal with this first, but once you have you need to give them a good education and give them the tools they need to survive in a modern educational environment, getting a C to a child who would normally get a grade lower is a big achievement and helps confidence, if a notebook is the difference, then that can set them on a path to greater things. Of course whats on that computer probably does not matter, a teacher asking you to write up a science experiment wants a good write up the tool used is irrelevent so here is where OSS comes in as it's accesable to anyone, because it's free, in cost, the philosopy of free software can be taught later. If it does the job then it's good. Also I think some charities take this view in other areas, rather than take shiploads of food to a villiage in africa (for the sake of argument), that food will last so long, then that villiage will be no better off, however if you take over tools, and the means for that village to be self sufficient, and grow their own food, those tools will last generations, and they should have a constant suppy of food, once you have a more healty village move in and provide education or rather the means to provide education, teach locals to teach their kids to read, the farmers to teach their skills, these skills get passed on to the next generation. Perhaps sending everyone notebooks is not the answer but as I said above send the tools they need to learn skills. Kids who will work on the village farm don't really need computer skills, however these may help, in the longer term. even as teaching aides. Paul Yanni Chiu wrote: > Phillip Qin wrote: > >> I don't object to any charity work. But I am wondering if so many >> kids are under poverty, no food, no place to live, what's the point >> we send them notebooks? Why don't we just spend this much money >> helping them surviving first? > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 16:39:29 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:39:29 +0000 Subject: OLPC (One Laptop per Child) wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43CBCC41.3030607@zen.co.uk> Back again, The money we spend on the space program ,or perhaps the part that looks at building bases on say the moon, deals with many problems, if we can learn how build a colony on the moon, then the same technlolgy could in theory be used to build green houses say africa where locals can have an environment that is controlled, so the soil stays moist and fertile, allowing crops to be grown, which would otherwise die in the heat of the outdoor enviroment, or the cold of the night (given that night temperature in the desert can fall below 0c, but rise above 40 c in the daytime. It just going to take a company to look at this technology and apply it somewhere else, and perhaps use that to help improve the research, wihich in turn will improve the technology, allowing the company to do more work, it's a cycle that could benefit a lot of people, eventually when we go to the moon, mars or beyond, we will have much more knowledge and technology to go with. In fact by using this technology in the field and getting feedback from locals. I think reading below, is this a good example. Paul >This is a bit analagous to the issue of "How can you spend on a space >program when there are homeless in the streets?"; part of the answer >is that there aren't always ways for spending to actually SOLVE the >problems of the homeless. Another part is that if there are enough >useful spin-offs, sometimes spending money on expensive things can be >a good deal. >-- >http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html >"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 19:42:34 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:42:34 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060116062712.GA6807-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> <20060116062712.GA6807@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Thinkpad T42 (2373-R94) CPU: Intel Pentium M 1.6GHz Memory: 1Gb Hard Disk: 80Gb Display: 14.1 TFT (1024x768 resolution) Graphics: ATI FireGL Mobility (128Mb RAM) Optical: DVD-ROM / CDRW drive Integrated 802.11G wireless, ethernet (10/100), and modem Ports: S-Video out, parallel, video, audio (speaker, microphone), 2XUSB 2.0 Like I said earlier, everything works under Linux except Ultrabay swapping (swapping the CD drive out for something else). I never use that feature, so I don't care so much about it. The wireless and modem support wasn't included in Fedora Core 4, but a simple download and I had it all working. (used the atrpms and dries yum repositories) pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 19:51:26 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:51:26 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories Message-ID: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? I don't really want to have to roll my own if I don't have to, and I know that people have had this problem before. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 20:09:03 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:09:03 +0000 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <20060116195126.GA6259-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <43CBFD5F.90509@zen.co.uk> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? I >don't really want to have to roll my own if I don't have to, and I know >that people have had this problem before. Thanks. > > I just tried this diff /var/log /etc and it tells me what is in either /var/log or /etc Not qutie sure if /var/log is a good example, this also works diff | du /var/log /etc and gives I guess file sizes, I would guess doing | grep whatever would search for something within the search results. Based on this, there is probably a combination of commands that will do this, or perhaps a small shell script, that would do it. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 20:15:51 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:15:51 +0000 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <43CBFD5F.90509-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <43CBFD5F.90509@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43CBFEF7.9030509@zen.co.uk> Further to this http://www.ss64.com/bash/diff.html there is a dircmp file, however this is not installed on my system, so perhaps this is not a linux bash command, as apt-get install dircmp won't install it, so perhaps it's distro or unix version specific, Paul Paul Sutton wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >> Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? I >> don't really want to have to roll my own if I don't have to, and I know >> that people have had this problem before. Thanks. >> >> > I just tried this > > diff /var/log /etc > > and it tells me what is in either /var/log or /etc > > Not qutie sure if /var/log is a good example, this also works diff | > du /var/log /etc and gives I guess file sizes, I would guess > doing | grep whatever would search for something within the search > results. > > Based on this, there is probably a combination of commands that will > do this, or perhaps a small shell script, that would do it. > > Paul > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 20:36:42 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:36:42 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> <20060116062712.GA6807@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060116203642.GA4241@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 02:42:34PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > Thinkpad T42 (2373-R94) > CPU: Intel Pentium M 1.6GHz Just out of curiosity... how does PentiumM/1.6GHz compare with P4/1.6GHz? Are they the same, except for the power consumption? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 20:48:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:48:35 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43C9511F.1010602-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060116204835.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 02:29:35PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Peter wrote: > > > >lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial > > Thanks for the reply! > > Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB > controller, not the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use > USB drives with removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE ASIC's > serial number my program would not be able to tell the difference > between different hard drives connected through the common carrier. What filesystem do you format the drives with? If you use ext2/ext3 you can do this: tune2fs -l /dev/sda1 |grep UUID There are probably similar things you can do on other filesystems. Each filesystem is assigned a unique id, which is a very reliable way to identify a drive. If you reformat it, the ID changes of course, but at that point it is a new filesystem and hence would have none of the old data anymore. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 21:02:21 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:02:21 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <20060116203642.GA4241-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <200601151003.29962.marc@lijour.net> <200601152005.04424.marc@lijour.net> <20060116062712.GA6807@node1.opengeometry.net> <20060116203642.GA4241@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060116210221.GP18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 03:36:42PM -0500, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 02:42:34PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > > Thinkpad T42 (2373-R94) > > CPU: Intel Pentium M 1.6GHz > > Just out of curiosity... how does PentiumM/1.6GHz compare with > P4/1.6GHz? Are they the same, except for the power consumption? The PentiumM 1.6GHz is on average about the speed of a 3.0 to 3.2ghz P4, while using maybe 1/4 to 1/3 the power. It does depend on the task. There are some tasks the P4 is really good at, and a lot of tasks the P4 is very very bad at. A pentium M compares very well with an Athlon 64. The 64bit versions of the Pentium M based chips like the Intel Core and Core Duo will on most benchmarks be within 10% of the same speed AMD. The pentium 4 is usually just way behind. The future processors from intel are all based on the Pentium M but with updated chipsets (badly needed for the Pentium M) with dual channel memory and faster busses, and SSE3 and other such nice things. The P4 on the other hand is history, with just a few of its features being added to the new chips. The netburst design is certainly gone. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 21:13:09 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:13:09 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <20060116195126.GA6259-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? "diff -r" does recursive diff (i.e. diff's any subdirecties). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 21:25:13 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:25:13 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <20060116204835.GO18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> <20060116204835.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43CC0F39.9030107@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 02:29:35PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Peter wrote: >>> lsusb -v|...|grep iSerial >> Thanks for the reply! >> >> Unfortunately, that only gives the serial number of the USB >> controller, not the hard drive itself. This is a problem because I use >> USB drives with removable disk carriers. If I rely on the USB/IDE ASIC's >> serial number my program would not be able to tell the difference >> between different hard drives connected through the common carrier. > > What filesystem do you format the drives with? > > If you use ext2/ext3 you can do this: > tune2fs -l /dev/sda1 |grep UUID > > There are probably similar things you can do on other filesystems. > > Each filesystem is assigned a unique id, which is a very reliable way to > identify a drive. If you reformat it, the ID changes of course, but at > that point it is a new filesystem and hence would have none of the old > data anymore. > > Len Sorensen Currently I use the 'UUID' of a partition as assigned by 'blkid' and that works fine with a few exceptions. Those exceptions are the cases I am trying to work around. Specifically; - The UUID of a permission changes if that partition is reformatted. - No UUID is assigned to some file systems (ie: NTFS). - On some file systems 'blkid' assigns a generic '0000-0000' UUID (ie: 'vfat' on digital cameras). Being a backup program I want to, ideally, support all file systems. This is why reading the serial number would be so ideal; I could create a (slightly modified) MD5 hash of the drive's serial number + partition/slice number to create a file system agnostic, portable ID. If I *can't* get the serial number over a USB interface (as seems to be the case now), then I need to find another method to uniquely identify a physical disk. The problem is, often people who use my program will buy a bunch of disk drives at once, often only in a series of serial numbers. So relying on things like the model number or date code would also be troublesome. Gah! Why couldn't disk drive manufacturer's put a small sector or two aside with the information always available and outside the view of the rest of the disk space? That would be sooooo nice! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 21:44:58 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:44:58 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <43CC0F39.9030107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> <20060116204835.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43CC0F39.9030107@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060116214458.GQ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 04:25:13PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Currently I use the 'UUID' of a partition as assigned by 'blkid' and > that works fine with a few exceptions. Those exceptions are the cases I > am trying to work around. Specifically; > > - The UUID of a permission changes if that partition is reformatted. > - No UUID is assigned to some file systems (ie: NTFS). Hmm, I thought NTFS also had a 32bit ID like FAT does. > - On some file systems 'blkid' assigns a generic '0000-0000' UUID (ie: > 'vfat' on digital cameras). Well what can you do on those cameras. :) I suppose you could always assign one to it whenever you see 0000-0000 since it was obviously formated by a brain dead device and ought to be fixed. I thought you were using it to identify backup targets, not backup sources. > Being a backup program I want to, ideally, support all file systems. > This is why reading the serial number would be so ideal; I could create > a (slightly modified) MD5 hash of the drive's serial number + > partition/slice number to create a file system agnostic, portable ID. But a drive with multiple partitions would still be a problem then. The drive serial number is not a solution either. > If I *can't* get the serial number over a USB interface (as seems to > be the case now), then I need to find another method to uniquely > identify a physical disk. The problem is, often people who use my > program will buy a bunch of disk drives at once, often only in a series > of serial numbers. So relying on things like the model number or date > code would also be troublesome. > > Gah! > > Why couldn't disk drive manufacturer's put a small sector or two > aside with the information always available and outside the view of the > rest of the disk space? That would be sooooo nice! No one prevents anyone from doing that. Try convincing existing users to change their disk setup after the fact though. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 22:22:43 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:22:43 -0500 Subject: Getting hard drive serial number from USB devices In-Reply-To: <20060116214458.GQ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43C9448E.3060409@alteeve.com> <43C9511F.1010602@alteeve.com> <20060116204835.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43CC0F39.9030107@alteeve.com> <20060116214458.GQ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43CC1CB3.3010409@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 04:25:13PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Currently I use the 'UUID' of a partition as assigned by 'blkid' and >> that works fine with a few exceptions. Those exceptions are the cases I >> am trying to work around. Specifically; >> >> - The UUID of a permission changes if that partition is reformatted. >> - No UUID is assigned to some file systems (ie: NTFS). > > Hmm, I thought NTFS also had a 32bit ID like FAT does. It may, but if so I don't know where to find it. I was hoping to not need to find out... :p >> - On some file systems 'blkid' assigns a generic '0000-0000' UUID (ie: >> 'vfat' on digital cameras). > > Well what can you do on those cameras. :) I suppose you could always > assign one to it whenever you see 0000-0000 since it was obviously > formated by a brain dead device and ought to be fixed. > > I thought you were using it to identify backup targets, not backup > sources. Yeah, my program tracks source and destination devices so that it can identify their data regardless of where (or even if) they are mounted. I don't know why someone would assign something like a digital camera as a source device but I don't want to prevent that feature, if I can. >> Being a backup program I want to, ideally, support all file systems. >> This is why reading the serial number would be so ideal; I could create >> a (slightly modified) MD5 hash of the drive's serial number + >> partition/slice number to create a file system agnostic, portable ID. > > But a drive with multiple partitions would still be a problem then. The > drive serial number is not a solution either. How so? If the person changes the number or partitions then yeah, the missing ones will be toast (as is the case currently when a partition is reformatted) and new ones will be unassigned but it is still a more stable setup than relying in the UUID alone. Of course I could be missing something, too. ^.^; >> If I *can't* get the serial number over a USB interface (as seems to >> be the case now), then I need to find another method to uniquely >> identify a physical disk. The problem is, often people who use my >> program will buy a bunch of disk drives at once, often only in a series >> of serial numbers. So relying on things like the model number or date >> code would also be troublesome. >> >> Gah! >> >> Why couldn't disk drive manufacturer's put a small sector or two >> aside with the information always available and outside the view of the >> rest of the disk space? That would be sooooo nice! > > No one prevents anyone from doing that. Try convincing existing users > to change their disk setup after the fact though. :) > > Len Sorensen Oh heck, asking users to alter their partitions for my program is *very* much not an option. Heck, I don't even want to "sign" their disks with a small file, if I can avoid it. Anything that requires altering a user's existing partition is /any/ way is a *very* last resort. I've always work on the philosophy that my program should only ever modify a destination device and even then, do so only to store source data. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 22:24:14 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:24:14 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060116222414.GA6848@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 04:13:09PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? > >"diff -r" does recursive diff (i.e. diff's any subdirecties). Yes, but the output is decidedly unbeautiful. I am not completely satisfied with dirdiff, but it seems to be a better choice than some of my options. Tree is educational, and lends itself scriptable solutions, but for a rough overview it seems to be okay. There are a lot of proprietary solutions out there for windoze I noticed, but because all the pieces are in place on Linux to do this yourself it seems less in demand. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 22:37:14 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:37:14 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <20060116222414.GA6848-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060116222414.GA6848@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 1/16/06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 04:13:09PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >>Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? > > > >"diff -r" does recursive diff (i.e. diff's any subdirecties). > > Yes, but the output is decidedly unbeautiful. I am not completely > satisfied with dirdiff, but it seems to be a better choice than some of > my options. Tree is educational, and lends itself scriptable solutions, > but for a rough overview it seems to be okay. There are a lot of > proprietary solutions out there for windoze I noticed, but because all > the pieces are in place on Linux to do this yourself it seems less in > demand. The other alternative would be to use some SCM tool for the purpose. In effect, check everything into a CVS/SVN/Darcs/Monotone/Arch repository, and then do the equivalent of "cvs diff". I don't think you'll find this approach overly pretty for any of the SCM tools :-(. There's usually enough overhead/"base effort" in setting up a repository that it won't, overall, be either quick or easy. It strikes me as *possible* that Unison could be used for the purpose; that is easy to configure, but has the demerit that finding useful "diffs" may not be all that easy. If the goal is to "unify" the directories, Unison might nonetheless be a good choice... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 23:30:35 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:30:35 -0500 Subject: OT: Digital Camera Photo Album In-Reply-To: <200601160918.26967.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200601160918.26967.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: On my quest to find yet other tools, I've found jalbum which is used to create a webpage album of photos. I've actually played with that one. It's not a photo management software. Just to create static photo album pages. It's also very easy to use! Hope this helps! On Monday 16 January 2006 08:25, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hey hey! > > Was just looking for the same actually. I downloaded digikam last night. > Haven't played around too much yet so I can't really offer an opinion... > > http://www.digikam.org > > Martin > > Greetings, > > I just bought a digital camera and am looking for some software to store > images on (A digital photo album). I googled "Photo Album" and it came up > with http://jalbum.net/ . Does anyone know of any other software (running > on Linux) that I can check out. > > Thanks > > Jason Carson I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but f-spot works extremely well. http://f-spot.org/Features There are a couple of good reviews here: http://www.writingup.com/f_spotter/introduction_to_the_f_spot_photo_manager http://www.linux-mag.com/content/view/2290/ ( free registration required ) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 23:54:44 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:54:44 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <20060116195126.GA6259-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <43CC3244.6070503@georgetown.wehave.net> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Is there a stock tool for reporting the differences in directories? I > don't really want to have to roll my own if I don't have to, and I know > that people have had this problem before. Thanks. If the directories are expected to be very similar I generally use: diff -rq dir1 dir2 What is the purpose? Is it part of a backup system, comparing source trees??? There might be a better tool depending on purpose. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 02:24:45 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:24:45 -0500 Subject: Linux version of windiff Message-ID: Does anyone know of a linux app that is similar to windiff? I like windiff so much I installed wine just to use that one exe. Oh, and to make it relavent to the current thread, windiff handles directories just the way I want it too :-) -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 02:49:31 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:49:31 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 Message-ID: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to brownouts. The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for further details. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 03:21:19 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:21:19 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <20060117024931.GA5136-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601161921h19a88f0avbb7a62bc6630ed21@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > brownouts. > > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > > A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > > See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > further details. Ok. Now see, that just makes my heart go all warm n stuff. I suppose it's a good thing they're testing, but you know someone's gunna get burnt. During Winter isn't a pleasant thought, even if it is warmer than normal. Anyway, got several weeks of list traffic to sort through. Wanted to say thanks for the heads up though. :-) FOSS Early Warning System ....................................... [ OK ] lol. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 03:49:19 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:49:19 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601161921h19a88f0avbb7a62bc6630ed21-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f0601161921h19a88f0avbb7a62bc6630ed21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060117034919.GA4588@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 10:21:19PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 1/16/06, Walter Dnes wrote: > > A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > > brownouts. > > > > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > > > > A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > > between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > > 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > > > > See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > > further details. > > Ok. Now see, that just makes my heart go all warm n stuff. I suppose > it's a good thing they're testing, but you know someone's gunna get > burnt. During Winter isn't a pleasant thought, even if it is warmer > than normal. I'm not sure how or where +/-6V from wall socket would be relevant. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 03:58:27 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:58:27 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <20060117034919.GA4588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f0601161921h19a88f0avbb7a62bc6630ed21@mail.gmail.com> <20060117034919.GA4588@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601161958k1b72c37dked7059f6d2669dc8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/06, William Park wrote: > > Ok. Now see, that just makes my heart go all warm n stuff. I suppose > > it's a good thing they're testing, but you know someone's gunna get > > burnt. During Winter isn't a pleasant thought, even if it is warmer > > than normal. > > I'm not sure how or where +/-6V from wall socket would be relevant. It's called the Butterfly Effect. No, for most there will be nothing noticeable - but somewhere, something in the system will breakdown. That may (or may not) lead to some unhappy people. Hopefully not. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 04:32:29 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:32:29 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I only recently got rss configured in my own client, although I still > prefer to visit the recent changes page manually. > > I'm not sure what pages would be good for announcing changes to. > Technically meeting pages would be nice.. but things get updated when > they get updated.. semi-randomly. What does MediaWiki use for the backend? If it's SQL (MySQL comes to mind), and assuming that the backend is designed relatively well, an add-on tool in perl should be relatively easy. (How's that for a null statement?) In the best "clean-backend" scenario: A basic prototype engine for customizable feeds - from database to parser to RSS feed in 15 minutes - or your money back* ;-) * Some restrictions apply, including but not limited to any of the following: power, communications and/or any other component failure within any required system and/or network. :-) -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 05:00:10 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:00:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C7BEA2.1050003-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C7BEA2.1050003@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > ------------- snip ---------------------------------- > >>> Most of the computers came from the Canadian Government, with NT4.0 and >>> the dx'es from the University of Ottawa with Novell something or other and >>> Win3.1. All the computers have network cards, some with co-ax and others >>> not. All are ISA of course. >> >> Yay. Just pray they don't use isaPnP. That never worked properly. > > Is that an issue with the 2.6 kernel? I have an ISA pnp SoundBlaster and No, it goes way back. The last time I use isaPnP was probably a 2.0 or 2.2 kernel but the real problem was in the hardware implementation. If that wasn't working the kernel couldn't do too much about it. > Debian unstable magically started to support it after I had got tired of > configuring it. Sometimes it will work perfectly but often it won't. Overall I found it to be a net waste of time. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 11:12:58 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:12:58 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <20060117034919.GA4588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f0601161921h19a88f0avbb7a62bc6630ed21@mail.gmail.com> <20060117034919.GA4588@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CCD13A.4070108@rogers.com> William Park wrote: further details. >> Ok. Now see, that just makes my heart go all warm n stuff. I suppose >> it's a good thing they're testing, but you know someone's gunna get >> burnt. During Winter isn't a pleasant thought, even if it is warmer >> than normal. > > I'm not sure how or where +/-6V from wall socket would be relevant. > Some devices are sensitive to volages at the extreme ends of their operating range. In some places, the line voltage may already be significantly lower or higher than elsewhere. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 13:53:34 2006 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:53:34 -0500 Subject: Linux version of windiff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/16/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Does anyone know of a linux app that is similar to windiff? > I like windiff so much I installed wine just to use that one exe. I've never used windiff, but my choice in visual diff programs is vimdiff. I find it particularly useful when I want to look at diffs AND make changes to one of the copies. Also does 3diff, which is incredibly useful for manually merging two sets of changes into a third document. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 14:21:16 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:21:16 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: On 1/16/06, Peter wrote: > > > The correct answer to such a question in a job interview would be to > ignore it and take the next one. If pressed, say you do not consider it > relevant to the job and would handle it when and where encountered, > should such an unlikely situation occur. The likelihood of such a > situation occuring is of course about zero, and as such, no matter what > you answer would not be relevant to anyone. Hi Peter, The problem is that we're not dealing with reality here, but with the Reality Distortion Field that is a job interview .. especially when conducted by a Human Resources person. ;) The Deus ex Machina answers like 'call for a taxi on your cell phone' are the same thing as 'pass' and don't enter into the fun of the moment. I think the more creative approach would be to explore different possibilities, perhaps even while thinking out loud. Sure, it has nothing to do with Linux, Perl, or even computers. But then, sometimes when dealing with these technical subjects you have to think creatively, or put two unrelated pieces of information together to come up with an unusual solution to some problem. And that's what this question is trying to provoke. Sad to say that, ten years ago, my reaction would have been the same -- What a stupid question for an interview -- but the reality is that team members aren't just walking, talking text books, but personalities that have to work together. I'll take a great team with OK skills over a handful of elite lone programmers any time -- because even a mediocre team can come up with brilliant solutions that a single, really smart developer could not. Also as an engineer, you > could point out that given the very low probability of such a situation > occuring, it would fit the situation that you would probably be driving > your regular car which has at least three free seats excepting your own, > and that your cell phone would be in working order, so you could order a > taxi or an ambulance if needed, or call the bus dispatcher info number > and see if the buses are running. Idiotic questions should be reserved > for IQ tests and the people rating them had better know what they are > doing. "That'll never happen" -- until it does. The situation is a parable for the question, "What happens when the unexpected happens? How do you deal with that? Can you give an example?" Sounds like a perfect opening to tell a neat story of how you handled an unexpected event in your job history and the clever (and cheap!) solution that you came up with on the spur of the moment. The difficulty I used to have with job interviews is that they're basically a sales call. The difference is that you're both buying and selling. You're selling yourself and your skills, but you're also buying into the company. I never thought of myself as a salesman, so had trouble with the interview process -- when it dealt with anything outside really technical areas. I'm a bit better at it now that I've realigned my thinking towards a sales process. This bogus example goes to the heart of that process. It's saying, in effect, forget about all of the technical mumbo jumbo, show me what you got between your ears. I was interviewed by Microsoft close to twenty years ago, and the parting question from the first interviewer, as we stood by the elevator waiting to go down to the lobby, was how the elevator scheduling algorithim compared to computers. Think about it for a minute. The answer I came up with was where to leave the hard drive's head when the drive was was idle. The quiet smile I received in reply told me this was a good answer. Depending on the traffic flow, the elevator scheduling algorithim wants to leave idle elevators closest to the place where they're likely to be needed, to minimize wait time. Same thing for a hard drive. You don't need to know much about elevators or hard drives to answer the question, just a bit of common sense. And the second Microsoft interview went really badly when the interviewer asked me why I wanted to work for Microsoft. I didn't have an answer, and couldn't make one up on the spot. That's kind of important. Oh well. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 16:30:17 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:30:17 -0600 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > What does MediaWiki use for the backend? If it's SQL (MySQL comes to > mind), and assuming that the backend is designed relatively well, an > add-on tool in perl should be relatively easy. (How's that for a null > statement?) Yes it's MySQL.. it seems to be pretty good, as a number of people have done some successful hacking around with it in mind. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 16:47:02 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:47:02 -0500 Subject: Drive mounting using autofs daemon Message-ID: Hi all, I am seeking some assistance please. I have been trying to understand autofs and I think I am missing something vital. The mounting actually works, but I can't seem to figure how it works and that is what is frustrating. I started by visiting /etc/auto.master file and enabled the line below /misc /etc/auto.misc --timeout=60 Commented out the line below #/misc /etc/auto.misc Saved that changes and headed to /etc/auto.misc According to documentation, everything there look set for automount. The line related to CD is cool and the floppy can be mounted by querying the file /etc/filesystems. Neat, I am just about to see autofs in action. Head over to /misc and try to list dir available there. Of cause, I have already inserted a floppy and a CD at their respective drives. #ls /misc A second later, another #ls /misc Nothing mounted. What the heck is wrong? How are these damn drive mounted? I hypothesis may be autofs don't work if you are using /etc/fstab simultaneously. Lets see if there is change #vi /etc/fstab Ah, something odd, the drives are "managed". What the heck does that mean? I ask myself. Me head for firefox and a second later, google pull out an article that say something to do with hal inserting those lines automatically. That mean commenting them out is useless, hal will just insert another pair of line right below the commented line. Further reading, and I can't think of ways to force fedora 4 use autofs in a transparent way. That mean I have a black box and if I need to fix a broken automount I would have no clue how to go about it. How the heck does automount work these days? William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 16:53:18 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:53:18 -0500 Subject: Transparently sharing dir and files Message-ID: Hi all, Lets say someone ask you to set up Red Hat box for collaboration transparently? Is that practical or does the users have to do it consciously? Can one disable RedHat form creating a group for every goddamn user? Yeah, it mess up security, but if its easy, I think that would be the way to go in an exam situating. This is how I attempted it Created a group called accounting #groupadd accounting Populated it with some names Tom, Jack and Jane #adduser -g accounting Tom #adduser -g accounting Jane #adduser -g accounting Jack Jack is always bossy, even though he has no power, so we might as well give him some #gpasswd -A Jack Then create a group directory Now, here is a kludge way of creating a shared dir (please advice if you know a better way)*** I assigned a password to jack #passwd jack **** Log in as jack #su jack #mkdir /home/jack/accountdoc (Is that the proper place to do it according to FSH?) The idea is, if I create a dir as Jack, I can be able to assign it to the account group - problem is, I can not however create a dir right above /home. On the other hand, as root is not in accounting group, I can't think of a way to passing dir over to accounting group other than being in a group initially. Then #fchmod -g 4071 /home/jack/accountdoc (Setgid to make groups right propagate when new files are created, read, write and execute rights to the group and execute for others) Now, the users in the group has to create a file and them do something like this $mv /home/jane/reconciliation.xls /home/jack/accountdoc I was thinking of pointing all group users applications to save to the group dir by default - to avoid the above commands - but that may lead to some bedroom stories leaking to the whole group by accident. That is how I handled it, not working that well and that is where I am seeking help. Would you mind commenting what you would do differently? William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 17:14:05 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:14:05 -0500 Subject: Transparently sharing dir and files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. I'm not sure why you're going through all this trouble to share files. Red Hat uses a user/group scheme called "user private groups". With this scheme, every user gets his own group (usually of the same name and ID as the user). If you want to have several users share data in a common directory, the admin can set this up using the setgid bit. Example scenario: Three users (tom, dick, harry) all members of the accounting group need to be able to share files with each other, on a Red Hat / Fedora system. Step 1: As root, create the group and common directory and change the permissions and group ownership. # groupadd accounting # mkdir /data/accounting # chgrp accounting /data/accounting # chmod 2770 /data/accounting Step 2: Create the users and add the accounting group to their group set # useradd -G accounting tom # useradd -G accounting dick # useradd -G accounting harry Any files created in /data/accounting by these three users will automatically have group ownership of "accounting" (that's what the setgid bit does). Anywhere outside this dir, and everything is back to normal (ie. files get user and private group ownership). Distributions that use user private group schemes usually set their umask (default file permissions) to 002, which makes your default file permissions rw-rw-r-- and directories rwxrwxr-x. So any files created in the shared directory can be modified by users in the group. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 17:18:18 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:18:18 -0500 Subject: Drive mounting using autofs daemon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. When you use autofs, the mountpoint does not get created until you access the mountpoint under /misc. So, if you use the sample file that is included in Red Hat / Fedora, the CD will be mounted when you access the /misc/cd directory. So you have to access the directory "blind"... that is, by CD'ing into a directory that looks like it doesn't exist. Keep in mind that autofs is managing all access to /misc, and comparing what you're trying to do with what you have configured; so it's when you access /misc/cd that the mountpoint gets created, and the CD mounted. After the timeout period (60 seconds), it gets unmounted and the mountpoint removed. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 17:24:30 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:24:30 -0500 Subject: OID - OpenLDAP Message-ID: Hi again, I played around with ldif files and I can't trust myself to remember that syntax precisely in a RHEL exam. Does one know if there is a sample on a default RH install? This is what I got when I tries searching fedora 4 using find # find / -name *.ldif -type f -print find: WARNING: Hard link count is wrong for /proc: this may be a bug in your filesystem driver. Automatically turning on find's -noleaf option. Earlier results may have failed to include directories that should have been searched. Odd, what the heck does that mean? And this bring a rather stupid question. What is the difference between copying a file or directory and creating a hard link of the file or directory? Lets say someone has a little too much time on his hand and decide to create a LDAP schema. Apparently, one should ensure that the OID (object identify) is unused and picking one from the air is evil. Where does one go to get this OID? Does it involve money exchange and is that market competitive, ie not another ICANN fiasco in the making? William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 18:30:22 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 17 Jan 2006 13:30:22 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > This strikes me as a stupid question to use. > > There is no "moral dilemna"; it's a pure hypothetical case where the > answer you're *supposed* to give is the "old lady." P-shaw!!! The right answer is: 1. run over the 'old friend' because a debt like having someone save your life is only going to cause your problems down the road. I watch TV. I know these things. 2. The old lady is gonna die from fright. Grab the money out of her purse. She doesn't need it any more. 3. Grab dream girl/boy and ask 'em out to dinner. On you!! This was an easy one. I'm not sure what I just qualified for, though :) -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 18:28:59 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:28:59 +0200 (IST) Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 1/16/06, Peter wrote: >> >> >> The correct answer to such a question in a job interview would be to >> ignore it and take the next one. If pressed, say you do not consider it >> relevant to the job and would handle it when and where encountered, >> should such an unlikely situation occur. The likelihood of such a >> situation occuring is of course about zero, and as such, no matter what >> you answer would not be relevant to anyone. > > Hi Peter, > > The problem is that we're not dealing with reality here, but with the > Reality Distortion Field that is a job interview .. especially when > conducted by a Human Resources person. ;) The Distorted Reality Field suggested by such an interview would make me think 7 times about working there. Such questions do appear in IQ tests and they appear by the dozen for a reason. The answers to the questions can only be judged together, as a trend. *One* such answer alone means someone did not do his or her homework wrt. testing, or worse, that he or she does not know how to do that. > Sad to say that, ten years ago, my reaction would have been the same -- What > a stupid question for an interview -- but the reality is that team members > aren't just walking, talking text books, but personalities that have to work > together. I'll take a great team with OK skills over a handful of elite lone > programmers any time -- because even a mediocre team can come up with > brilliant solutions that a single, really smart developer could not. The brilliance of management consists in building teams where the zealots are balanced by cool people who can maintain the atmosphere reasonably workable and idea people with doers who can implement them. Unless you know what exactly they want you cannot guess the right answer anyway. Since there are three possible answers the chances to get it right by guessing are 33% lacking further information. Stalling the answer could be construed as an attempt to obtain such helpful information ;-) > Also as an engineer, you >> could point out that given the very low probability of such a situation >> occuring, it would fit the situation that you would probably be driving >> your regular car which has at least three free seats excepting your own, >> and that your cell phone would be in working order, so you could order a >> taxi or an ambulance if needed, or call the bus dispatcher info number >> and see if the buses are running. Idiotic questions should be reserved >> for IQ tests and the people rating them had better know what they are >> doing. > > "That'll never happen" -- until it does. > > The situation is a parable for the question, "What happens when the > unexpected happens? How do you deal with that? Can you give an example?" > Sounds like a perfect opening to tell a neat story of how you handled an > unexpected event in your job history and the clever (and cheap!) solution > that you came up with on the spur of the moment. Like calling a taxi for the first, and ambulance for the second, and a limo car rental for the third, so you can take her/him out in style ? > The difficulty I used to have with job interviews is that they're basically > a sales call. The difference is that you're both buying and selling. You're > selling yourself and your skills, but you're also buying into the company. I > never thought of myself as a salesman, so had trouble with the interview > process -- when it dealt with anything outside really technical areas. I'm a > bit better at it now that I've realigned my thinking towards a sales > process. Imho, define what you are selling and what you are buying. Once you know that, you can have a relaxed discussion about other things during, after, and before the interview. But not instead of it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 18:31:30 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:31:30 -0500 Subject: Transparently sharing dir and files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks I knew I was going around it the wrong way. There was just too much work and I got permission issues. > # chgrp accounting /data/accounting That is one command I missed from "apropos group" and it made a whole lot of a difference. I only notices usermod which does an equivalent jobs on users. > # chmod 2770 /data/accounting Opps, I did 4000 which is setuid, but we shared the intention behind introducing the *000. I am however surprised you didn't give others any rights to the group. Wouldn't that prevent some applications reading directories on /data/accounting? > Any files created in /data/accounting by these three users will > automatically have group ownership of "accounting" (that's what the setgid However, whenever I create a file, its always created on my home directory by default. Yeah, I do point it to other directories, but I think most users save them on home directory. That would make the setgid ineffective since the files will always be created elsewhere and then moved on /data/accounting later. Thanks again, I think I have to do more work to wean myself from the GUI for some work. William On 1/17/06, Paul Mora wrote: > Hi. > > I'm not sure why you're going through all this trouble to share files. > > Red Hat uses a user/group scheme called "user private groups". With this > scheme, every user gets his own group (usually of the same name and ID as > the user). > > If you want to have several users share data in a common directory, the > admin can set this up using the setgid bit. > > Example scenario: > > Three users (tom, dick, harry) all members of the accounting group need to > be able to share files with each other, on a Red Hat / Fedora system. > > Step 1: As root, create the group and common directory and change the > permissions and group ownership. > # groupadd accounting > # mkdir /data/accounting > # chgrp accounting /data/accounting > # chmod 2770 /data/accounting > > Step 2: Create the users and add the accounting group to their group set > # useradd -G accounting tom > # useradd -G accounting dick > # useradd -G accounting harry > > Any files created in /data/accounting by these three users will > automatically have group ownership of "accounting" (that's what the setgid > bit does). Anywhere outside this dir, and everything is back to normal (ie. > files get user and private group ownership). Distributions that use user > private group schemes usually set their umask (default file permissions) to > 002, which makes your default file permissions rw-rw-r-- and directories > rwxrwxr-x. So any files created in the shared directory can be modified by > users in the group. > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 18:44:42 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:44:42 -0500 Subject: Drive mounting using autofs daemon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, it worked. I was trying to list dir on /misc (The logical thing IMHO) and nothing was happening. However, if i ls /misc/cd, it works. I think this feature is badly documented. I read a number of articles, and none was that clear. Thank you a lot William On 1/17/06, Paul Mora wrote: > Hi. > > When you use autofs, the mountpoint does not get created until you access > the mountpoint under /misc. So, if you use the sample file that is included > in Red Hat / Fedora, the CD will be mounted when you access the /misc/cd > directory. > > So you have to access the directory "blind"... that is, by CD'ing into a > directory that looks like it doesn't exist. Keep in mind that autofs is > managing all access to /misc, and comparing what you're trying to do with > what you have configured; so it's when you access /misc/cd that the > mountpoint gets created, and the CD mounted. After the timeout period (60 > seconds), it gets unmounted and the mountpoint removed. > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 19:57:43 2006 From: dominicbonfiglio-Mmb7MZpHnFY at public.gmane.org (Dominic Bonfiglio) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:57:43 -0500 Subject: amaroK, xine, and alsa... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43CD4C37.9000308@gmx.de> Hello, I am having a problem using the xine-engine and alsa plugin with amaroK (suse 10.0 Distribution). I already posted this question to the forum on the amaroK Web site but have not yet received a response. So I am turning (once again) to the TLUG. Here is my problem: Every time I try to set the Xine Engine to alsa, amaroK reports that "xine was unable to initialize any audio drivers," after which Amarok promptly crashes. Set to autodetect, OSS, or aRts, the Xine Engine works fine. I still need alsa, however, because, unlike OSS or aRts, it allows me to configure the output device. I am using two sound cards--the built-in card and USB speakers--and have configured a .soundrc file that looks like this: pcm.intel8x0 { type plug slave.pcm "hw:0" } ctl.intel8x0 { type hw card 0 } pcm.usb-audio { type plug slave.pcm "hw:1" } ctl.usb-audio { type hw card 1 } When I use Xine to watch a movie or use Kaffeine to play music or video, everything works fine. I can set the plugin to alsa and set the output device to intel8x0 or usb-audio, depending on whether I am using headphones or speakers--so the audio drivers for alsa must be functioning just fine. But why won't they work with amaroK? I just adore this player, and want to give it full functionality. Any suggestions? Thanks, Dominic > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 19:59:22 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:59:22 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060117195922.GS18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:40:32PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > So I'm looking at simply purchasing a number of these systems to take > down to Jacmel and configure them there: > http://lesstech.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/45/products_id/170 > > I'll have the hard drives taken out since it appears that the network > cards (10/100) PCI have a cable that attaches to the motherboard? Is > this perhaps the boot from LAN that I'm hoping it is? The systems have > floppy drives so it isn't too much of a problem. That tends to be the WOL (Wake On Lan) cable. It allows the system to be configured to power up when a magic packet is received from the network. This is handy when combined with netboot or other boot that recognizes the wake on lan request. The WOL cable does not imply netboot support. If you see support for netboot when you turn it on, then it has it. You will usually see netboot or int18 or something in the bios, and if enabled you should see some text about PXE boot when you turn it on. Most machines with integrated LAN have netboot, but many with add in cards do not. I have seen compaq systems with add in intel 10/100 cards that had netboot, since compaq's bios supports netboot on that card in those systems. My home machine supports netboot on 3c90x cards from the BIOS. > The video cards are all 16mb AGP, more than enough to do the job > according to what I've read on LTSP and such websites. > > Also, the sound is built into the motherboard, making it PCI if I > understand built in components correctly (unless there is such a thing > as built in ISA???). I've heard that esound will look after sound for > each client computer. Can it look after line in (microphone) as well? Many older P2 and early P3 systems had onboard isa sound. They were often a nightmare to get working. > One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then > 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit > everywhere? Yes. After all the server can probably server more than 100mbit, so that way it could serve multiple clients data at once at full speed. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 20:09:26 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2006 15:09:26 -0500 Subject: Linux Job Posting In-Reply-To: <43AD9622.4080507-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43AD9622.4080507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Hi TLUG, I'm posting this employment opportunity for a client of ours, Magstar Inc. If interested, please respond directly to: Michael Brooke 416-447-1442 ext. 273 Magstar Inc. is seeking a POS Support to join a fast paced development environment in the retail software solutions industry. The ideal candidate has; 2-3 years experience in Unix/Linux operations / administration, including creation, installation and maintenance of RPMs and OS level debugging and performance tuning. Experience with multiple core technologies, including; relational databases, IP networking and various Internet technologies. System implementation and configuration tools that automate and support the operations, administration and management of complex (Unix based) applications. Significant experience developing methods and procedures. Strong documentation skills required. Excellent communications skills both written and verbal a must. Excellent analytical and troubleshooting skills; flexibility; ability to plan and organize; responsiveness and creativity. Strong desire to learn and work with multiple applications , tools and technologies. Demonstrated ability to perform in a demanding multi-tasking environment. Magstar Inc. is a leading developer of fully integrated enterprise-wide retail application software. Magstar's TOTAL Retail? solution has an install base that covers a wide variety of small to medium sized chain operations in the USA, Canada, and the Caribbean Basin. Vertical markets served include Specialty Apparel, Department Store Chains, Wine and Liquor Retailer Chains, Drug Store Chains plus a variety of specialty retailers. In addition application development, Magstar's services include business consulting, work process and gap analysis, custom software development and integration, system hardware, installation, training, and 7x24 support with remote facilities management. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 20:30:29 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:30:29 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060117203029.GA2999@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:40:32PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > So I'm looking at simply purchasing a number of these systems to take > down to Jacmel and configure them there: > http://lesstech.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/45/products_id/170 That's P2/400. It should have both ISA and PCI slots. Check the BIOS to see if it has bootROM for the network card. Otherwise, you'll need 3c905 ($40) or do floppyboot. > > I'll have the hard drives taken out since it appears that the network > cards (10/100) PCI have a cable that attaches to the motherboard? Is > this perhaps the boot from LAN that I'm hoping it is? The systems have > floppy drives so it isn't too much of a problem. I recommend getting one here, and trying out before going oversea. :-) > One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then > 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit > everywhere? Yes. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 22:05:57 2006 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:05:57 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 1/17/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then > 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit > everywhere? I'll second that with a qualified "yes". IF the switch is a real switch AND IF the port that the server is connected to also supports gigabit. I doubt that any off-the-shelf consumer switch (or switching hub) will have gigabit. Also, make sure to use a quality cable for the gigabit link (cat6 or better), or it's likely that the card will switch back to 100mbps OR just flake out entirely. We've had some issues with the ethernet cards at work being fickle about what speed they're running at, and that causes modem speeds over the supposedly fast gigabit links. Forcing the cards to do gigabit-only (disabling autodetect) makes them behave properly and consistently. ethtool and mii-tool mii-diag and ethtool are your friends. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 22:32:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:32:17 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <20060117203029.GA2999-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> <20060117203029.GA2999@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CD7071.50107@utoronto.ca> William Park wrote: > On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:40:32PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> So I'm looking at simply purchasing a number of these systems to take >> down to Jacmel and configure them there: >> http://lesstech.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/45/products_id/170 > > That's P2/400. It should have both ISA and PCI slots. Check the BIOS > to see if it has bootROM for the network card. Otherwise, you'll need > 3c905 ($40) or do floppyboot. > >> I'll have the hard drives taken out since it appears that the network >> cards (10/100) PCI have a cable that attaches to the motherboard? Is >> this perhaps the boot from LAN that I'm hoping it is? The systems have >> floppy drives so it isn't too much of a problem. > > I recommend getting one here, and trying out before going oversea. :-) Someone will be picking one or more up later in the week. I'll have a chance to check them over beforehand. It looks like the network cards are supported by www.rom-o-matic.net so floppy boot should work as well. >> One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then >> 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit >> everywhere? > > Yes. > Thanks, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 22:34:29 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:34:29 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: <43CD70F5.3050109@telly.org> G. Matthew Rice wrote: >1. run over the 'old friend' because a debt like having someone save your > life is only going to cause your problems down the road. I watch TV. I > know these things. > >2. The old lady is gonna die from fright. Grab the money out of her purse. > She doesn't need it any more. > >3. Grab dream girl/boy and ask 'em out to dinner. On you!! > > Isn't that kind of answer considered "thinking outside the cell"? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 16 12:07:07 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:07:07 -0500 Subject: IBM laptop In-Reply-To: <43CA9022.1090201-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>; from evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 13:10:42 -0500 References: <200601122335.50965.marc@lijour.net> <43C9D712.5030802@telly.org> <20060115131851.GA1961@localhost> <43CA9022.1090201@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060116120707.GA2083@localhost> On Sun Jan 15,2006 01:10:42 PM Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: > >> On Sun Jan 15,2006 12:01:06 AM Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >>> IBM never publicly offered a desktop or laptop PC without >>> the Microsoft tax; its high-end models wouldn't even give >>> you the option of the less-expensive XP Home. >> >> >> IBM did sell a laptop with Linux installed. >> >> > > I sit corrected. I would note that the example above must have > taken some digging; the system Scott indicated came preloaded with > Caldera OpenLinux. Ok, how about a laptop that was certified to run RedHat Linux: On Sun Jan 15,2006 12:01:06 AM Evan Leibovitch wrote: > My support calls were always met by polite reminders that > official Linux Thinkpad support has never existed. If they ever tell you this again, you may wish to point them to these links. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 22:41:04 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:41:04 -0500 Subject: amaroK, xine, and alsa... Message-ID: <43CD7280.4000102@utoronto.ca> Dominic Bonfiglio wrote: > Hello, I am having a problem using the xine-engine and alsa plugin with > amaroK (suse 10.0 Distribution). I already posted this question to the > forum on the amaroK Web site but have not yet received a response. So I > am turning (once again) to the TLUG. > > Here is my problem: snip > When I use Xine to watch a movie or use Kaffeine to play music or video, > everything works fine. I can set the plugin to alsa and set the output > device to intel8x0 or usb-audio, depending on whether I am using > headphones or speakers--so the audio drivers for alsa must be > functioning just fine. But why won't they work with amaroK? I just adore > this player, and want to give it full functionality. Any suggestions? My suggestion is to try gstreamer. arts sounds like it is considered (or is) depreciated, by both the community and amarok developers, and I don't think that there is anything xine can do that gstreamer can't do just as well. Myself I prefer gstreamer because it handles http authorization to my personal music server -- something that I haven't bothered fiddling with using the xine-engine -- not worth bothering if, as I've said, gstreamer can do the same and then some. Not sure if this helps answer your question (I'm not technically proficient enough to really given any useful answer), and I don't intend to bash xine -- just my thoughts and experience with amarok. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 22:45:02 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:45:02 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43CD736E.6000903@utoronto.ca> Taavi Burns wrote: > On 1/17/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then >> 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit >> everywhere? > > I'll second that with a qualified "yes". > > IF the switch is a real switch > AND > IF the port that the server is connected to also supports gigabit. > > I doubt that any off-the-shelf consumer switch (or switching hub) will > have gigabit. I think I've seen the type of switch you mean -- in fact, I saw one on the Dell site a while back with 1 gigabit and 12 10/100 ports. Admittedly as you say, it wasn't off the shelf. > Also, make sure to use a quality cable for the gigabit link (cat6 or > better), or it's likely that the card will switch back to 100mbps OR > just flake out entirely. We've had some issues with the ethernet > cards at work being fickle about what speed they're running at, and > that causes modem speeds over the supposedly fast gigabit links. > Forcing the cards to do gigabit-only (disabling autodetect) makes them > behave properly and consistently. ethtool and mii-tool mii-diag and > ethtool are your friends. :) I was definitely thinking about purchasing cables here to ensure that I get good quality. It sounds like things will still run adequately if I have to use 100mbit to start -- it would just be nice to have gigabit done beforehand and not have to figure out how to tell someone what to buy through email in Kreyole. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 23:41:54 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:41:54 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> Message-ID: <43CD80C2.3000200@rogers.com> >>> The correct answer to such a question in a job interview would be to >>> ignore it and take the next one. If pressed, say you do not consider it >>> relevant to the job and would handle it when and where encountered, >>> should such an unlikely situation occur. The likelihood of such a >>> situation occuring is of course about zero, and as such, no matter what >>> you answer would not be relevant to anyone. And > The Distorted Reality Field suggested by such an interview > would make me think 7 times about working there. Consider this: They asked you that question looking for the exact answer you gave above. You see, I would totally ask a question like that just to see how people responded, most likely with a preference for people who responded along the lines of "well, that's a silly question - I would have to find myself in the situation to have any idea about what I'd do - there's too many variables". A response along that line might serve to indicate someone who's rational and doesn't act lightly without having all the facts first. I tend to answer questions exactly how I think and feel, and not try to game the process. Sometimes the interviewer purposely asks odd or stupid questions like this, just to see how you think. The actual content of your answer may be entirely secondary or not important at all. The question might exist for no other reason than to try and throw you off ;) Cheers, B p.s. If I *did* have to pick an answer, I'd probably go with the person who saved my life once as I would feel indebted to them. Screw the old lady; she's had a long life. As for the 'perfect' man or woman, well, so what? strangers die all the time, what's two more, etc... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 00:57:29 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:57:29 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: <43CD80C2.3000200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> <43CD80C2.3000200@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43CD9279.6080408@rogers.com> Wow, now I read back in the thread and realize someone said it better. Gah. It's totally true that if you know the trick, it's easy to exploit the interviewer if they're not being smart about things. But I'd submit that, among the people who do eventually get hired and turn out to be great additions, the incidence of trick-knowing would be astonishingly high :) Anyone who posed it as a decisive question would be foolish, it's gotta have context. Not that responding to your own post isn't questionable... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 01:11:38 2006 From: skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Srinivasan Krishnan) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:11:38 -0500 Subject: Linux version of windiff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1137546698.1860.1.camel@ambipapa> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 21:24 -0500, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Does anyone know of a linux app that is similar to windiff? Meld (http://meld.sourceforge.net) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 02:24:11 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:24:11 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58@mail.gmail.com> On 1/17/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/16/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > What does MediaWiki use for the backend? If it's SQL (MySQL comes to > > mind), and assuming that the backend is designed relatively well, an > > add-on tool in perl should be relatively easy. (How's that for a null > > statement?) > > Yes it's MySQL.. it seems to be pretty good, as a number of people > have done some successful hacking around with it in mind. Great. I'll get a copy of MediaWiki installed to try it then. Basically my plan is to query the db for a user's watchlist, so that all the customization of one's personal feed would require is that they manage their watchlist. If MW stores a "last viewed" time then it should be pretty painless, if not then it's SAL to the rescue. :-) Gotta sleep first tho... The AVP project is starting to materialize and between that and work, the days are awfully long. Lol, and I'd like to actually time how long it takes to implement a prototype after MW's installed. Curious, how long would you say it takes to setup a basic MW installation? -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 04:48:01 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:48:01 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43CDC881.9050106@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Great. I'll get a copy of MediaWiki installed to try it then. > Basically my plan is to query the db for a user's watchlist, so that > all the customization of one's personal feed would require is that > they manage their watchlist. > > If MW stores a "last viewed" time then it should be pretty painless, > if not then it's SAL to the rescue. :-) Not sure if it would help, but MediaWiki uses two fields that might be of interest: rc_timestamp & rc_cur_time. I'm not sure how you'd go about it (if at all), but couldn't you query the timestamp(s) for any page in the user's watch list? > Gotta sleep first tho... The AVP project is starting to materialize > and between that and work, the days are awfully long. Lol, and I'd > like to actually time how long it takes to implement a prototype after > MW's installed. > > Curious, how long would you say it takes to setup a basic MW installation? You could do it in less than half an hour. 10 minutes if you try really hard and know exactly where to click and which files to edit. I wouldn't rush it the first time though. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 06:21:53 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:21:53 -0500 Subject: OID - OpenLDAP Message-ID: <768631270601172221y4e4acd39yd937a961dfdb2931@mail.gmail.com> No i believe it is the ietf you need to register it with. But I see no need to register it unless you are intending on developing an application.. BTW, anyone interested in trying out my Win32 LDAP Editor? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kihara > Muriithi > Sent: January 17, 2006 12:25 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: OID - OpenLDAP > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 06:28:21 2006 From: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:28:21 -0500 Subject: Persistent name service error In-Reply-To: <43CD736E.6000903-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43CD736E.6000903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <00ac01c61bf8$60a9add0$6602a8c0@xp64> Hello, I am running a mail server using a static IP with Teksavvy. I am running the following services on RH9: apache, mambo, dns, postfix and Mailman. The main purpose of the server is to run web and email services for the non-profit shambhalatoronto.org. Everything was working well until about two weeks ago when Mailman email stopped going through. When I sent an email to the test list "test-bavBZ82//owgFV0ZGDeh72D2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org" I got the following error: Received: from c1m5.emaildefenseservice.com ([216.40.36.37]) by smtp.pppoe.ca (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with SMTP id WGZ34924 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:24 -0500 Received: from barracuda.pppoe.ca [206.248.154.34] (EHLO barracuda.pppoe.ca) by c1m5.emaildefenseservice.com (mxl_mta-1.3.8-10p10) with ESMTP id 449ddc34.19801.176.c1m5; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by barracuda.pppoe.ca (Spam Firewall) id C5B671182BF; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:18 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="AF38A117985.1137563958/barracuda.pppoe.ca" Message-Id: <20060118055918.C5B671182BF-JE8hqn47KVKeKb84uUKZOLDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org> X-Spam: exempt X-MAIL-FROM: <> X-SOURCE-IP: [206.248.154.34] This is the Spam Firewall at barracuda.pppoe.ca. I'm sorry to inform you that the message below could not be delivered. When delivery was attempted, the following error was returned. : Name service error for name=shambhalaotoronto.org type=A: Host not found With generous help from the folks at Unix Unanimous, I could see that I'd forgotten to put in my new IP address when I switched from Istop to Teksavvy at Directnic where I purchased the domain. I updated this on Thursday, January 12 and emails that had been sent a week before started to come through and some emails newly posted went through. On January 13th things were still working but after that nothing again and now emails sent to test-bavBZ82//owgFV0ZGDeh72D2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org are coming back with the same error "name=shambhalaotoronto.org type=A: Host not found". Dnsreport.com says everything is fine except that it can't connect to my mail server but I can telnet into mail.shambhalatoronto.org smtp just fine. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Robert Toronto -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 06:50:36 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:50:36 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? Message-ID: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone here know free site for classical mp3's ? PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 07:31:29 2006 From: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:31:29 -0500 Subject: Persistent name service error In-Reply-To: <00ac01c61bf8$60a9add0$6602a8c0@xp64> References: <00ac01c61bf8$60a9add0$6602a8c0@xp64> Message-ID: <00b301c61c01$328faea0$6602a8c0@xp64> I withdraw this question. Turns out that I was getting a name service error because of a typo - an extra "o". Problem must be somewhere else. Thanks, Robert Toronto -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Robert F. Kennedy Sent: January 18, 2006 1:28 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Persistent name service error Hello, I am running a mail server using a static IP with Teksavvy. I am running the following services on RH9: apache, mambo, dns, postfix and Mailman. The main purpose of the server is to run web and email services for the non-profit shambhalatoronto.org. Everything was working well until about two weeks ago when Mailman email stopped going through. When I sent an email to the test list "test-bavBZ82//owgFV0ZGDeh72D2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org" I got the following error: Received: from c1m5.emaildefenseservice.com ([216.40.36.37]) by smtp.pppoe.ca (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with SMTP id WGZ34924 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:24 -0500 Received: from barracuda.pppoe.ca [206.248.154.34] (EHLO barracuda.pppoe.ca) by c1m5.emaildefenseservice.com (mxl_mta-1.3.8-10p10) with ESMTP id 449ddc34.19801.176.c1m5; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by barracuda.pppoe.ca (Spam Firewall) id C5B671182BF; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:18 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: rfk-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="AF38A117985.1137563958/barracuda.pppoe.ca" Message-Id: <20060118055918.C5B671182BF-JE8hqn47KVKeKb84uUKZOLDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org> X-Spam: exempt X-MAIL-FROM: <> X-SOURCE-IP: [206.248.154.34] This is the Spam Firewall at barracuda.pppoe.ca. I'm sorry to inform you that the message below could not be delivered. When delivery was attempted, the following error was returned. : Name service error for name=shambhalaotoronto.org type=A: Host not found With generous help from the folks at Unix Unanimous, I could see that I'd forgotten to put in my new IP address when I switched from Istop to Teksavvy at Directnic where I purchased the domain. I updated this on Thursday, January 12 and emails that had been sent a week before started to come through and some emails newly posted went through. On January 13th things were still working but after that nothing again and now emails sent to test-bavBZ82//owgFV0ZGDeh72D2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org are coming back with the same error "name=shambhalaotoronto.org type=A: Host not found". Dnsreport.com says everything is fine except that it can't connect to my mail server but I can telnet into mail.shambhalatoronto.org smtp just fine. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Robert Toronto -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 16:45:08 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:45:08 +0000 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43C5B1CA.7030802-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> Message-ID: <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> As I started this thread off by asking simply about jobs in Linux, I just wondered what this theread now has to do with Linux. Paul Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > The subject, with "xenophobia" there, is really repulsive. > > I have been writing on similar matters in the past, so let me please > have a few words more. > > Someone noticed that Canadians born here also do have similar problems > as newcomers. Thats so much true. And these who are new should be > aware of that. We basically all share the same place, economical > situation, all that surrounds our living conditions, we have similar > opportunities, and while new people here have to struggle for living, > these who are here for generations have too. New ones would benefit > greatly by understanding and accepting this simple fact. These new > ones are not singled out of the crowd for worser life. And when to > speak about people, I do agree, most of Canadians are wonderful, > though usually live according to standards and base their life on > values that obviously must somehow differ from these values newcomers > brought here. > > There are more than two important points in this a bit ugly > discussion, but let me mention them. > > New ones do have a much more difficult start. Why? Well, simply these > who live here for a long were able to create their own network of > connections, which is extremely a good thing in life. While newcomers > often do not even understand how the society works and very often have > no idea where even to find information about matters that are of > importance to them. > > In other words, these living here for a long do have better > opportunities through the fact that they are supposed at least to > understand better this society and have more connections. If they do > indeed make a benefit of these factors is another issue for > discussion. But anyone arriving to Canada for living here should, in > principle, be aware, that he or she is breaking up with their society > and starting life from the beginning, de facto. > > Canada is, I bet to say, most tolerant country in the world, when it > comes to accepting newcomers. > > That does not need to mean yet that it is easy to settle here and > live. No, it is not. These who think that life is more difficult > everywhere else are terribly mistaken. > > Canada is not xenophobic, neither as a country nor as a society. It is > open to others more than any country in the world. > > One perhaps should have in mind, however, a simple fact: Canada could > probably not live and develop without newcomers. Many Canadians are > not aware how much they have to suffer because of this huge influx of > new people. That changes the entire policy, economy, social life. Yes, > these living here for generations do suffer by that! And often are not > understanding this social process. But Canada indeed seems to have no > other choice. > > My problem, if I had any problem, would rather be about approach to > certain values. It is rather a common idea, may be largely > unconscious, that newcomers ought to be used. Just used. That they > should pay the cost of coming here. Well, they will pay that cost > anyway, regardless of how open the society is towards them or how much > federal money are invested into helping them. That idea is wrong right > at its roots. It harms heavily these who are living here for > generations as well. It is been used by single people, by propaganda > in media, by governments. Still people seem not to mention that both, > these who come here and these who live here for 100 years or more, are > simply made stupid and their minds manipulated. One can not build Good > by doing Evil. > > zb. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 12:06:12 2006 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:06:12 -0500 Subject: gnome sessions gone Message-ID: Hey! Some really strange just happened. I was rebooting my pc and now I can't login to gnome anymore. I looked at gdm and it's runing, the rpm are still installed. I just don't have the option to specify gnome desktop when I login anymore. Tried logging on as root and as another regular user with the same effect. Did a verify on the rpm packages and there's nothing changed there. Can anyone offer any advise on how to tackle this one? Thanks! Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 18:52:38 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:52:38 +0200 (IST) Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? (fwd) Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? http://www.shoutcast.com/directory/index.phtml > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. You can get CDs while there, too. ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 15:57:04 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:57:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Topic: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" A brief look at alternative ways to keep track of to-do lists and some tips for managing task overload. see: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8378 Speaker: Sacha Chua Sacha, a University of Toronto graduate student studying Human Computer Interaction, under Mechanical and Industrial Engineering, has written a Linux Journal article in the October issue on "Taming the TODO". The article started out as a presentation for the Tokyo Linux Users Group (the other TLUG?? [ed]) Sacha is passionate about helping people get into open source development, Linux in education, and free and open source software in general. Date: Jan 24, 2006 Time: 7:00 to 10:00pm Location: to be confirmed, but likely Seneca at York - details to follow. -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 12:52:31 2006 From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:52:31 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BCA@RIKER> If you have a collection of great vinyl and a turntable table you may want to consider using Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) to convert the vinyl to mp3s. I have a collection of vintage R&B and DooWop records, a lot of which I've never seen on CDs and I'm in the process of converting them to mp3s. It's not hard at all. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:51 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: free mp3 sites for classical ? Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone here know free site for classical mp3's ? PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 21:28:38 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:28:38 -0500 Subject: Fwd: US DHS funds security for open source----1/11/06] Message-ID: <200601181628.38550.marc@lijour.net> It might interest you. marc -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FW: US DHS funds security for open source----1/11/06 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:51:29 +0200 From: Mooly Sagiv Reply-To: msagiv-+lLcF8/aw9x6auLlOhE+pQ at public.gmane.org Organization: Tel-Aviv University To: TAU-CS-SIGPLAN-0lvw86wZMd/ZxN5vux0HihIikrF9wMuL at public.gmane.org US DHS funds security for open source IDG News Service 1/11/06 China Martens, IDG News Service, Boston Bureau The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has awarded a US$1.24 million three-year grant to Stanford University and software vendors Coverity Inc. and Symantec Corp. The grant will fund daily security audits and analysis of more than 40 open-source projects including Apache, Linux, Mozilla, MySQL and PostgreSQL. Known as the Vulnerability, Discovery and Remediation Open Source Hardening Project, the grant forms part of a broad initiative by the DHS Science and Technology Directorate to encourage the development and deployment of technologies to protect the country's key computer systems networks, including the Internet, according to Coverity executives. The awarding of the grant was announced Wednesday. Under the terms of the grant, Stanford will receive a total of $841,276 in funding over the three-year period, Coverity $297,000 and Symantec $100,000. Source-code analysis startup Coverity will receive the bulk of its funding, $237,000, in the first year of the grant, with the remainder of the money, $60,000, to be paid out equally over the two following years, according to Rob Rachwald, senior director of product and corporate marketing with Coverity. Coverity will use the money to extend its Prevent software so it can analyze the source code of a wider variety of open-source projects for software defects and security vulnerabilities. "We'll develop the [Prevent] tool so we're able to understand what the government needs in terms of defect detection, software reliability and software security," Rachwald said Wednesday. Coverity's Prevent will carry out automatic daily security audits of the open-source projects and post the defects it finds in a public online bug database, according to Rachwald. Stanford will contribute staff to provide recommendations for developing secure open-source software in future. Among those contributing will be Dawson Engler, an associate professor of computer science at Stanford and a co-founder of Coverity, Rachwald said. Symantec will draw on its expertise in security software to suggest both best security practices for the U.S. government to adopt and how to deploy software in a secure fashion so as to lower the incidence of any attacks, he added. Coverity plans to have the daily audits for an initial 40 open-source projects up and running by March, according to Rachwald. However, he expects more open-source projects to be added over time in response to requests by the DHS. Coverity is still determining exactly how it will present the bug database online. The company may use the same method it does with Linux with its http://linuxbugs.coverity.com Web site, which developers have to log into or else make the audits available via Stanford's Web site, he said. "This is part of a trend where government is adopting a lot of the technology software companies already have," Rachwald said, pointing to the likes of McAfee Inc., Sun Microsystems Inc. and Symantec, which already use Coverity's Prevent technology. The DHS did not immediately return calls for comment. This is Coverity's first DHS grant, according to Rachwald. The company applied for the grant in December 2004. Coverity's technology originated in Stanford's computer systems laboratory. The company, which has its headquarters in San Francisco, was founded in 2002. Zvi Schechter Managing Director Giza Venture Capital Ramat Aviv Tower 12th Floor, 40 Einstein St. POB 17672, Tel Aviv 61172 Direct: 972-3-640-2322 Fax: 972-3-640-2319 Mobile: 972-546-881133 E-mail: zvi-9hnIjpviTnDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Web site: www.gizavc.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. ------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 13:15:16 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:15:16 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CE3F64.1020507@georgetown.wehave.net> William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? Perhaps here, my firewall is blocking it so I cannot check ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/beethoven/downloads.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 15:21:52 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:21:52 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CE5D10.6010005@utoronto.ca> William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. > Beethoven > Turntable > Preamp > Soundcard > audacity > lame... You can get a good enough preamp for less than $40 from lots of places, even a cheap Tandy unit works well for this purpose (what I've got). That way you've got the same recording that you've grown accustomed to -- I have a hard time listening to anyone else's version of Handel's Watermusic except for Roger Norrington and the London Classical Players' rendition. With your own preamp you also get the added bonus of capturing that well worn vinyl sound, complete with pops, hisses, and crackles. You can even clean the resulting file up such that major defects get reduced to listenable small defects. Definitely worth your time to encode your own IMO. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 21:49:27 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:49:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? I haven't found much Beethoven, but a fair amount of classical (and other stuff) at . (Click on Browse by Genre.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 10:18:44 2006 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:18:44 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CE1604.9060508@cogeco.ca> Try to install 'KHdRecord' . It requires the qt dev lib. John William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 13:46:35 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200601180846.35365.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 01:50, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. Use bittorrent http://seedler.org/en/html/search/classical -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 23:32:55 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 18 Jan 2006 18:32:55 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43CE7094.2080105-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: Paul Sutton writes: > As I started this thread off by asking simply about jobs in Linux, I just > wondered what this theread now has to do with Linux. Nothing but since no one has invoked Godwin's Law, it's fair game... This is the internet, after all. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 01:02:01 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:02:01 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <43CEE509.3040709@istop.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Paul Sutton writes: > >> As I started this thread off by asking simply about jobs in Linux, I just >> wondered what this theread now has to do with Linux. >> > > Nothing but since no one has invoked Godwin's Law, it's fair game... > > It is fair. Besides, since the subject interests some people on this list... It is a good subject, I guess? I will however disagree that there is nothing between "Linux jobs" and talking about issues related to socio-political functioning of the society. These of you more grown up have rather no doubt about that? Let me explain better. Actually, my mind is still functioning more in terms of physics, which is more my real profession. When I walk by the street I see physics everywhere around me. I "see" the quanta of light, photons, send to me by other objects around, at night I see the light from stars as distant as millions of light-years. I wonder how my cell phone is build that it can detect so weak radio signal from another phone in a remote place of the city. I think even why the sky at night is not entirely full of light ("Orbach paradox"). And how is that related to Schroedinger equation, entanglement of photons and electrons transversing the entire Universe. Even more: when I think about social phenomena, I am used to invoke from my memories analogies to statistical physics or theory of "self organized criticality", diffusion of air particles and diffusion of space dust or galaxies, to think in terms of E=mc2 and vortices in superconductors, or spins in a magnet (heh, not so many of you are aware that these tiny magnets you use everyday in many invisible engines are the macroscopic proof of validity of quantum mechanics!) Or even these bits and bites flipping on hard drive could not happen if quantum mechanics was true. Everything is connected together and related. According to some, we even breathe the same air and have thoughts exchanged through telepathy. No, telepathy is not a part of physics, but physics can not exclude that there is merit there. Look broader, breath deeper! ;) Regards, zb. > This is the internet, after all. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 01:07:13 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:07:13 -0600 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/06, Herb Richter wrote: > Topic: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" Building a todo application has been a very strong interest at my new work/company. In fact we're wrapping much of the way our people plan and interact around the todo concept. It started when we got frustrated with using Trac as a ticket manager. We wanted more. We wanted a todo list because it was difficult for us to organize ourselves properly to see beyond the daily fires. At first I wanted to put some development effort into improving Trac for our purposes, even to contribute code to the project. However, after a while we decided our philosophies would clash. We looked out into the world for other application to use for various purposes, and tried a bunch.. eventually stumbling upon backpack. Looking at backpack we though to ourselves.. we can do better. Oh yes we can do better. It's been some time since our app obsoleted our use of Trac, and now we're using it every moment of every day. We still take the time to check out other people's methods to understand what works when and why.. and to adapt our processes as we learn. I'll definitely have a peek at the article, and it so happens that I have Tuesdays off.. so I'll come. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 01:29:38 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:29:38 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43CEE509.3040709-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> <43CEE509.3040709@istop.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601181729j2d76e721o908a200f55c77ddd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: ... > Actually, my mind is still functioning more in terms of physics, which > is more my real profession. When I walk by the street I see physics > everywhere around me. I "see" the quanta of light, photons, send to me > by other objects around, at night I see the light from stars as distant > as millions of light-years. I wonder how my cell phone is build that it > can detect so weak radio signal from another phone in a remote place of > the city. I think even why the sky at night is not entirely full of > light ("Orbach paradox"). And how is that related to Schroedinger > equation, entanglement of photons and electrons transversing the entire > Universe. Even more: when I think about social phenomena, I am used to > invoke from my memories analogies to statistical physics or theory of > "self organized criticality", diffusion of air particles and diffusion > of space dust or galaxies, to think in terms of E=mc2 and vortices in > superconductors, or spins in a magnet (heh, not so many of you are aware > that these tiny magnets you use everyday in many invisible engines are > the macroscopic proof of validity of quantum mechanics!) Or even these > bits and bites flipping on hard drive could not happen if quantum > mechanics was true. > > Everything is connected together and related. According to some, we even > breathe the same air and have thoughts exchanged through telepathy. No, > telepathy is not a part of physics, but physics can not exclude that > there is merit there. > > Look broader, breath deeper! ;) > > Regards, > zb. zb - Wow. Some day we're going to have to get together and talk theory. I look at the world in much the same way, just it's more like a hobby than a profession. :-) When I was 10, I learned Boolean logic and Algebra by playing with the BASIC programming language (Commodore 64). I learned what fundamental laws were. lol, turned me into an addict. Have you read Cargo Cult Science, by Richard Feynman? http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.html > > This is the internet, after all. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 01:43:35 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:43:35 -0600 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application Message-ID: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> It's quite off-topic, but there are some people with good brains lurking about. Or good lurks braining about. =p There's this little web application that my company has been working on for a while. It really rocks. It really really rocks. We've been using it for some time. It is the single most powerful driving force in the way my business runs from day to day. It's nearing readyness for public viewing/flaming. We're just not sure how to go about this. It's one of those funky Ruby/Rails whiz-bang AJAXy apps. Yes, and it's yet another todo application. Route 1: Releasing the use: Self-hosting and selling the service has come to mind. This is what backpack has done yes? Openly hosting applications isn't really our thing, so we've got only our wits. Where can I go to learn more about the pitfalls of such a thing? We're thinking of starting by haivng an openly-accssible version of it which resets itself hourly. Then we're thinking about choking off some of the functionality and making that version openly available. Sign up with a username and password, use the thing for life. It's good marketing/karma and something that we'd consider. Then we're thinking of selling the unthrottled package, including shunting it off onto a separate sub-server and all that sort of thing. Custom hosting with the complete package. Dealing with signups, permissions, money flow and that sort of thing isn't a big deal.. the fear is with keeping a good service flowing, good uptime.. and dealing with concepts we may never have thought of.. (documentation, technical support, training.. who knows) Route 2: Releasing the code: We've liberally used various open source components. Pardon me while I use a little FUD. So because we've used code which have their own licensing terms, the application as a whole _may_ find itself "infected" by the licensing correct? Also, some modifications have had to be made to that outsider code (fixing bugs, adding features, etc). We still need to arrange to get a hold of the various authors of the alien code to provide patches. My first goal is go get a list built which describes all of the alien code and to get the licensing terms for each item. Assuming all code is GPL, under what circumstances can that GPL code be bundled with ours if ours is under a different license? Can that alien code be referred to as separate modules? Can it even be shipped in the same tarball with our app? Releasing the whole shebang GPL is indeed possible.. but we need to somehow leverage the "oh my god" aspect. Bunches of brain and brawn have gone into it, and it'd be nice to get something out of it. Either it's released into the wild as a marketing tool or it's held back somehow for fun and profit by selling only its use. Ideas? I'm sure lots of other people have run into the same sort of dillema. I'm not sure where to go to get those experiences. Really this application isn't such a big deal to us. We made it because we had a BIG itch to scratch. It's growing up quickly and so it'd be nice to start dreaming of its future. Frankly, I'm leaning towards hosting it for people to try / use for free, accepting donations to cover the serving costs, GPLing the lot of it and accepting/assembling a public development team to work on it on some open source developer site. Comments welcome.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 01:58:05 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:58:05 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> Hey Sy, Thanks for writing about this; I find your dilemma very interesting! All the more so because I've run into a very similar situation, with what sounds like a very similar application. I wrote about it here recently. This thing called TaskToy (www.tasktoy.com) is currently closed-source, and because it's a to-do application (again, like Backpack), the expectation is that it will be used as one's always-on, always-there application for managing their life. For me anyway, if I can't GUARANTEE that it will always be available to me, then I can't risk using it. Naturally there are plenty of folks who disagree. But on this list anyway, I think you'll find that most people will agree that an open source application is the only way to guarantee that users can rely on it to make it part of their life. For additional irony, I'm beginning to work on my own open source to-do list application, indeed using Rails and Ajax goodness. If you want to go ahead and release it open-source, I would be thrilled! But then again, I'll probably still work on mine since I want to learn Rails. :-) Best of luck! Aaron. On 1/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: > It's quite off-topic, but there are some people with good brains > lurking about. Or good lurks braining about. =p > > > There's this little web application that my company has been working > on for a while. It really rocks. It really really rocks. > > We've been using it for some time. It is the single most powerful > driving force in the way my business runs from day to day. > > It's nearing readyness for public viewing/flaming. We're just not > sure how to go about this. > > It's one of those funky Ruby/Rails whiz-bang AJAXy apps. Yes, and > it's yet another todo application. > > > Route 1: > Releasing the use: > > Self-hosting and selling the service has come to mind. This is what > backpack has done yes? > > Openly hosting applications isn't really our thing, so we've got only > our wits. Where can I go to learn more about the pitfalls of such a > thing? > > We're thinking of starting by haivng an openly-accssible version of it > which resets itself hourly. > > Then we're thinking about choking off some of the functionality and > making that version openly available. Sign up with a username and > password, use the thing for life. It's good marketing/karma and > something that we'd consider. > > Then we're thinking of selling the unthrottled package, including > shunting it off onto a separate sub-server and all that sort of thing. > Custom hosting with the complete package. > > Dealing with signups, permissions, money flow and that sort of thing > isn't a big deal.. the fear is with keeping a good service flowing, > good uptime.. and dealing with concepts we may never have thought of.. > (documentation, technical support, training.. who knows) > > > Route 2: > Releasing the code: > > We've liberally used various open source components. Pardon me while > I use a little FUD. So because we've used code which have their own > licensing terms, the application as a whole _may_ find itself > "infected" by the licensing correct? > > Also, some modifications have had to be made to that outsider code > (fixing bugs, adding features, etc). We still need to arrange to get > a hold of the various authors of the alien code to provide patches. > > My first goal is go get a list built which describes all of the alien > code and to get the licensing terms for each item. > > Assuming all code is GPL, under what circumstances can that GPL code > be bundled with ours if ours is under a different license? Can that > alien code be referred to as separate modules? Can it even be shipped > in the same tarball with our app? > > > > Releasing the whole shebang GPL is indeed possible.. but we need to > somehow leverage the "oh my god" aspect. Bunches of brain and brawn > have gone into it, and it'd be nice to get something out of it. > Either it's released into the wild as a marketing tool or it's held > back somehow for fun and profit by selling only its use. > > Ideas? I'm sure lots of other people have run into the same sort of > dillema. I'm not sure where to go to get those experiences. > > Really this application isn't such a big deal to us. We made it > because we had a BIG itch to scratch. It's growing up quickly and so > it'd be nice to start dreaming of its future. > > Frankly, I'm leaning towards hosting it for people to try / use for > free, accepting donations to cover the serving costs, GPLing the lot > of it and accepting/assembling a public development team to work on it > on some open source developer site. > > > Comments welcome.. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 02:03:55 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:03:55 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601181729j2d76e721o908a200f55c77ddd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> <43CEE509.3040709@istop.com> <99a6c38f0601181729j2d76e721o908a200f55c77ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43CEF38B.9020700@istop.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 1/18/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > ... > >> Everything is connected together and related. According to some, we even >> breathe the same air and have thoughts exchanged through telepathy. No, >> telepathy is not a part of physics, but physics can not exclude that >> there is merit there. >> >> Look broader, breath deeper! ;) >> >> > zb - Wow. Some day we're going to have to get together and talk > theory. I look at the world in much the same way, just it's more like > a hobby than a profession. :-) > > When I was 10, I learned Boolean logic and Algebra by playing with the > BASIC programming language (Commodore 64). I learned what fundamental > laws were. lol, turned me into an addict. > > Have you read Cargo Cult Science, by Richard Feynman? > > http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.html > When I was at high school, at the age of about 15, a young new female teacher (which with we in some sense had a sort of Platonic love) told me: "lets read Feynman". Fortunately, his books, "Feynman Lectures on Physics", were available at the public library, in Polish translation, at my city of Zamosc in Poland. They changed my mind. If anybody knows - this is a sort of classic writing now. 5 thick textbooks used actually by students at universities. I passed them all at that time. In my PhD thesis I have a "motto" from Feynman and than a citation at the end of my entire thesis, also from Feynman. I enjoy reading the text you send a link to. Feynman was a sort of artist and a great thinker. Now, however, I view him as a someone who becomes too classic. He was a genious in the sense that he did fit into the times he lived in. He even impressed me, living 30 or 50 years later. Now however I see his ideas limited. May be because I start to understand their significance? It seems that physics, that in fact was quite and did not produce any remarkable results changing the philosophical grounds of human thinking for many decades, that it is almost ready to wake up. I feel the smell. Yes, Scott, I will be pleased to talk with you more privately. zb. > -- > Scott Elcomb > psema4.gotdns.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 02:15:00 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:15:00 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: On 18 Jan 2006 18:32:55 -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Paul Sutton writes: > > As I started this thread off by asking simply about jobs in Linux, I just > > wondered what this theread now has to do with Linux. > > Nothing but since no one has invoked Godwin's Law, it's fair game... > > This is the internet, after all. The thing is, you can't yourself bring up the Relevant Political Party and then claim that the thread is over ;-). One of the troubles I expect we're seeing here is that the context here is of a user group which does have a mix of both professionals and hobbyists, and where some of the latter can only wish they were the former. I remember the old days when Commodore and Atari and Apple fans fought over which was the best 8 bit system, when various fans fought over which 68K home computer was "best," and such... Back in those days, we were bright but nonetheless pretty stupid kids. "We're the best; the other computers SUCK!!!" Linux versus Windows fits into this in much the same way. Yes, each has merits and demerits; there's a pretty hefty amount of "chip on shoulder" such that some of the opining is really rather juvenile. People with such juvenile attitudes aren't likely to get jobs as sysadmins in places where reliability is expected to include, erm, "mental stability" or, perhaps, more fairly, having at least a modicum of maturity. There *are* jobs out there for "Linux professionals;" the thing about it is that those doing hiring aren't fanatical about Linux, and aren't after those who want to maximize cries of "Windows Sux!!!" What the recruiters are generally after aren't really "Linux" pros so much as "Unix professionals." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 02:41:40 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:41:40 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601181841u202400e3g18866bad5211cb5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: > It's quite off-topic, but there are some people with good brains > lurking about. Or good lurks braining about. =p > > > There's this little web application that my company has been working > on for a while. It really rocks. It really really rocks. > > We've been using it for some time. It is the single most powerful > driving force in the way my business runs from day to day. > > It's nearing readyness for public viewing/flaming. We're just not > sure how to go about this. > > It's one of those funky Ruby/Rails whiz-bang AJAXy apps. Yes, and > it's yet another todo application. [ snip ] I'm in a boat slightly behind yours and don't have the answers either. My thinking is heavily biased (by the AVP project) towards commercial foss (w/o impairment), though I've no idea whether the model is applicable to todo lists... Maybe something along the lines of TransGaming's Cedega? Beyond that, I can't really offer much help or advice atm. Best of luck with your release, and I look forward to trying it. I did one in Perl CGI last year as well, 'cause nothing else worked right. Moving to an AJAX tool would be really wonderful. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 02:48:14 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:48:14 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If your company's buisness is not that of selling software services, either GPL it and kick it out the door, or spin off a whole buisness to handle application hosting services. If you were in the buisness of selling services, one more to sell is a no-brainer. Oh, one other thought would be to strike a deal with an ISP / Hosting company and let them handle to hard part, just license the code to them. As Aaron brought up, there are lots of people that can't use applications that they don't "trust" for some reason. I prefer to use the same tools for my personal life as I do at work. However, I can't risk our company data on someone elses server, so I have to be able to install a complete seperate copy on the internal network at work. -Joseph- On 1/18/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hey Sy, > Thanks for writing about this; I find your dilemma very interesting! > All the more so because I've run into a very similar situation, with > what sounds like a very similar application. I wrote about it here > recently. > > This thing called TaskToy (www.tasktoy.com) is currently > closed-source, and because it's a to-do application (again, like > Backpack), the expectation is that it will be used as one's always-on, > always-there application for managing their life. For me anyway, if I > can't GUARANTEE that it will always be available to me, then I can't > risk using it. Naturally there are plenty of folks who disagree. But > on this list anyway, I think you'll find that most people will agree > that an open source application is the only way to guarantee that > users can rely on it to make it part of their life. > > For additional irony, I'm beginning to work on my own open source > to-do list application, indeed using Rails and Ajax goodness. If you > want to go ahead and release it open-source, I would be thrilled! But > then again, I'll probably still work on mine since I want to learn > Rails. :-) > > Best of luck! > Aaron. > > > > > On 1/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > It's quite off-topic, but there are some people with good brains > > lurking about. Or good lurks braining about. =p > > > > > > There's this little web application that my company has been working > > on for a while. It really rocks. It really really rocks. > > > > We've been using it for some time. It is the single most powerful > > driving force in the way my business runs from day to day. > > > > It's nearing readyness for public viewing/flaming. We're just not > > sure how to go about this. > > > > It's one of those funky Ruby/Rails whiz-bang AJAXy apps. Yes, and > > it's yet another todo application. > > > > > > Route 1: > > Releasing the use: > > > > Self-hosting and selling the service has come to mind. This is what > > backpack has done yes? > > > > Openly hosting applications isn't really our thing, so we've got only > > our wits. Where can I go to learn more about the pitfalls of such a > > thing? > > > > We're thinking of starting by haivng an openly-accssible version of it > > which resets itself hourly. > > > > Then we're thinking about choking off some of the functionality and > > making that version openly available. Sign up with a username and > > password, use the thing for life. It's good marketing/karma and > > something that we'd consider. > > > > Then we're thinking of selling the unthrottled package, including > > shunting it off onto a separate sub-server and all that sort of thing. > > Custom hosting with the complete package. > > > > Dealing with signups, permissions, money flow and that sort of thing > > isn't a big deal.. the fear is with keeping a good service flowing, > > good uptime.. and dealing with concepts we may never have thought of.. > > (documentation, technical support, training.. who knows) > > > > > > Route 2: > > Releasing the code: > > > > We've liberally used various open source components. Pardon me while > > I use a little FUD. So because we've used code which have their own > > licensing terms, the application as a whole _may_ find itself > > "infected" by the licensing correct? > > > > Also, some modifications have had to be made to that outsider code > > (fixing bugs, adding features, etc). We still need to arrange to get > > a hold of the various authors of the alien code to provide patches. > > > > My first goal is go get a list built which describes all of the alien > > code and to get the licensing terms for each item. > > > > Assuming all code is GPL, under what circumstances can that GPL code > > be bundled with ours if ours is under a different license? Can that > > alien code be referred to as separate modules? Can it even be shipped > > in the same tarball with our app? > > > > > > > > Releasing the whole shebang GPL is indeed possible.. but we need to > > somehow leverage the "oh my god" aspect. Bunches of brain and brawn > > have gone into it, and it'd be nice to get something out of it. > > Either it's released into the wild as a marketing tool or it's held > > back somehow for fun and profit by selling only its use. > > > > Ideas? I'm sure lots of other people have run into the same sort of > > dillema. I'm not sure where to go to get those experiences. > > > > Really this application isn't such a big deal to us. We made it > > because we had a BIG itch to scratch. It's growing up quickly and so > > it'd be nice to start dreaming of its future. > > > > Frankly, I'm leaning towards hosting it for people to try / use for > > free, accepting donations to cover the serving costs, GPLing the lot > > of it and accepting/assembling a public development team to work on it > > on some open source developer site. > > > > > > Comments welcome.. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 02:50:45 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:50:45 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And, one more thought. GPL it, and sell it as a service. I'm sure there are people that don't have a CO-LOed server they can rely on, so paying someone a fee to make a service always online is not unreasonable. -Joseph- On 1/18/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > If your company's buisness is not that of selling software services, > either GPL it and kick it out the door, or spin off a whole buisness > to handle application hosting services. > > If you were in the buisness of selling services, one more to sell is a > no-brainer. > > Oh, one other thought would be to strike a deal with an ISP / Hosting > company and let them handle to hard part, just license the code to > them. > > As Aaron brought up, there are lots of people that can't use > applications that they don't "trust" for some reason. > I prefer to use the same tools for my personal life as I do at work. > However, I can't risk our company data on someone elses server, so I > have to be able to install a complete seperate copy on the internal > network at work. > -Joseph- > > On 1/18/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Hey Sy, > > Thanks for writing about this; I find your dilemma very interesting! > > All the more so because I've run into a very similar situation, with > > what sounds like a very similar application. I wrote about it here > > recently. > > > > This thing called TaskToy (www.tasktoy.com) is currently > > closed-source, and because it's a to-do application (again, like > > Backpack), the expectation is that it will be used as one's always-on, > > always-there application for managing their life. For me anyway, if I > > can't GUARANTEE that it will always be available to me, then I can't > > risk using it. Naturally there are plenty of folks who disagree. But > > on this list anyway, I think you'll find that most people will agree > > that an open source application is the only way to guarantee that > > users can rely on it to make it part of their life. > > > > For additional irony, I'm beginning to work on my own open source > > to-do list application, indeed using Rails and Ajax goodness. If you > > want to go ahead and release it open-source, I would be thrilled! But > > then again, I'll probably still work on mine since I want to learn > > Rails. :-) > > > > Best of luck! > > Aaron. > > > > > > > > > > On 1/18/06, Sy Ali wrote: > > > It's quite off-topic, but there are some people with good brains > > > lurking about. Or good lurks braining about. =p > > > > > > > > > There's this little web application that my company has been working > > > on for a while. It really rocks. It really really rocks. > > > > > > We've been using it for some time. It is the single most powerful > > > driving force in the way my business runs from day to day. > > > > > > It's nearing readyness for public viewing/flaming. We're just not > > > sure how to go about this. > > > > > > It's one of those funky Ruby/Rails whiz-bang AJAXy apps. Yes, and > > > it's yet another todo application. > > > > > > > > > Route 1: > > > Releasing the use: > > > > > > Self-hosting and selling the service has come to mind. This is what > > > backpack has done yes? > > > > > > Openly hosting applications isn't really our thing, so we've got only > > > our wits. Where can I go to learn more about the pitfalls of such a > > > thing? > > > > > > We're thinking of starting by haivng an openly-accssible version of it > > > which resets itself hourly. > > > > > > Then we're thinking about choking off some of the functionality and > > > making that version openly available. Sign up with a username and > > > password, use the thing for life. It's good marketing/karma and > > > something that we'd consider. > > > > > > Then we're thinking of selling the unthrottled package, including > > > shunting it off onto a separate sub-server and all that sort of thing. > > > Custom hosting with the complete package. > > > > > > Dealing with signups, permissions, money flow and that sort of thing > > > isn't a big deal.. the fear is with keeping a good service flowing, > > > good uptime.. and dealing with concepts we may never have thought of.. > > > (documentation, technical support, training.. who knows) > > > > > > > > > Route 2: > > > Releasing the code: > > > > > > We've liberally used various open source components. Pardon me while > > > I use a little FUD. So because we've used code which have their own > > > licensing terms, the application as a whole _may_ find itself > > > "infected" by the licensing correct? > > > > > > Also, some modifications have had to be made to that outsider code > > > (fixing bugs, adding features, etc). We still need to arrange to get > > > a hold of the various authors of the alien code to provide patches. > > > > > > My first goal is go get a list built which describes all of the alien > > > code and to get the licensing terms for each item. > > > > > > Assuming all code is GPL, under what circumstances can that GPL code > > > be bundled with ours if ours is under a different license? Can that > > > alien code be referred to as separate modules? Can it even be shipped > > > in the same tarball with our app? > > > > > > > > > > > > Releasing the whole shebang GPL is indeed possible.. but we need to > > > somehow leverage the "oh my god" aspect. Bunches of brain and brawn > > > have gone into it, and it'd be nice to get something out of it. > > > Either it's released into the wild as a marketing tool or it's held > > > back somehow for fun and profit by selling only its use. > > > > > > Ideas? I'm sure lots of other people have run into the same sort of > > > dillema. I'm not sure where to go to get those experiences. > > > > > > Really this application isn't such a big deal to us. We made it > > > because we had a BIG itch to scratch. It's growing up quickly and so > > > it'd be nice to start dreaming of its future. > > > > > > Frankly, I'm leaning towards hosting it for people to try / use for > > > free, accepting donations to cover the serving costs, GPLing the lot > > > of it and accepting/assembling a public development team to work on it > > > on some open source developer site. > > > > > > > > > Comments welcome.. > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 03:15:59 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:15:59 -0500 Subject: Media Alert: Can't Afford Big Copyright's Banquet? Join OnlineRights.ca for a 'Balanced Meal' Instead (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601181915ga199782x7a0d46815ddaefb9@mail.gmail.com> If you're in T.O., not busy tomorrow night and interested in Canadian Copyright reform (or bad-for-business stories [evil grin]) here's something that might be worthwhile... Only wish I could make it. :( ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russell McOrmond Date: Jan 18, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: [discuss] Media Alert: Can't Afford Big Copyright's Banquet? Join OnlineRights.ca for a 'Balanced Meal' Instead (fwd) To: General Copyright Discussions Cc: info-MJEqh5BbKMUJAyYzE3YaXA at public.gmane.org, Universal Access Canada , CANadian OPENsource Education and Research I sent the following to all Toronto area candidates. Please forward to anyone you know in Toronto. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:36:18 -0500 From: Russell McOrmond - Digital Copyright Canada forum coordinator To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject: Media Alert: Can't Afford Big Copyright's Banquet? Join OnlineRights.ca for a 'Balanced Meal' Instead (Sent to Toronto area candidates. See http://digital-copyright.ca for who we are.) Media Alert: Can't Afford Big Copyright's Banquet? Join OnlineRights.ca for a 'Balanced Meal' Instead Contact: Ren Bucholz Policy Coordinator, Americas Electronic Frontier Foundation ren at eff.org +1 416 628-0777 Toronto - Tomorrow night, January 19th, the Canadian copyright lobby is putting on a $250/person banquet to generate political donations for a friendly MP. They might be doing it because they're nice, or perhaps they're feeling generous because of the influence they expect to gain once the night is over. But no matter what their motivations, the event presents a startling picture: copyright interests contributing thousands of dollars to a politician who sets policy for their industry. This practice can't be ignored, especially in a year when Canadian copyright is likely to undergo its biggest revision in decades. That's why Online Rights Canada (ORC) is having an alternative event at the same address. You can read our invitation to the public at http://www.onlinerights.ca/news/balanced_meal/ If politicians take tens of thousands of dollars from the industries they regulate, are independent artists, educators, librarians and the general public really going to get a fair shake? So come out on Thursday, and meet regular Canadians who want a seat at the copyright table. We've confirmed the attendance of Neil Leyton, founder of the Fading Ways music label; Joey DeVilla, Accordion Guy and Toronto blogger extraordinaire; and a host of other guests. We hope to see you there as well. Please note: this is a nonpartisan event. ORC has no position on how Canadians should vote in the coming election. When: Thursday, January 19th 2006 6 P.M. - 7 P.M Where: The Corner Cafe @ The Drake Hotel 1150 Queen St. W. in Toronto Call Ren Bucholz @ 416/300-5316 on the night of the event if you get lost RSVPs appreciated but not required: info at OnlineRights.ca For more information: http://www.OnlineRights.ca/news/balanced_meal -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: Please send a letter to your candidates to let them know Digital Copyright issues are important to you! http://www.digital-copyright.ca/election2006/letter1 _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss-oIpuSOuHPwhe04CwrWwdBg at public.gmane.org http://lists.canopener.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 03:17:41 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:41 -0500 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/18/06, Herb Richter wrote: > >>Topic: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" > > Building a todo application has been a very strong interest at my new > work/company. In fact we're wrapping much of the way our people plan > and interact around the todo concept. You might want to check out the demo video at: http://www.dabbledb.com/about/ Actually, the video is linked off the blog. It's not open-source, but it's very different from most any other web application. Underneath, I know its built with Squeak and Seaside, and probably an object database for persistence. One of the principals is in fact the inventor of Seaside, and he'll be giving a talk at the upcoming LinuxWorld/NetworkWorld conference in April. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 03:57:20 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:57:20 -0500 Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition Message-ID: <43CF0E20.2040405@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am trying to clean up part of the user interface on my backup program but I need some advice. In short; Can I *quickly* get the number of files (and dirs, links, etc) on a given partition or under a certain directory? The two keeps are "quickly" and "partition"; it's can't traverse file systems /or/ be limited to a directory (and it's sub directories). The problem; I store information on all the files on a given partition in a database. Currently I have no way of knowing how many files will be scanned when the job begins so I have to print "X number of files scanned in Y seconds so far" every so often. Effective but not pretty. What I would prefer; If I could get the number of files (or even an approximate 'a-la pgsql planner) on a given device I could create a traditional progress bar but periodically checking how many files have been scanned and updating the progress bar. 100% accuracy is not critical, but I would like to stay within 90%. :p The problem with the time it takes to get the number of files is that this is strictly a cosmetic enhancement so I want to keep the performance hit as small as possible. Thanks!! Madison PS - This is a perl program but system calls are okay, too. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 05:41:46 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:41:46 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060119054146.GA3066@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 01:50:36AM -0500, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. Thanks to all posters and repliers. I found that ClassicCat.net (directory to other sites) has the most Beethoven stuffs. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 05:55:02 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:55:02 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <43CE5D10.6010005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CE5D10.6010005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060119055502.GB3066@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 10:21:52AM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does > >anyone here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > > >PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. > > > > Beethoven > Turntable > Preamp > Soundcard > audacity > lame... > > You can get a good enough preamp for less than $40 from lots of > places, even a cheap Tandy unit works well for this purpose (what I've > got). That way you've got the same recording that you've grown > accustomed to -- I have a hard time listening to anyone else's version > of Handel's Watermusic except for Roger Norrington and the London > Classical Players' rendition. > > With your own preamp you also get the added bonus of capturing that > well worn vinyl sound, complete with pops, hisses, and crackles. You > can even clean the resulting file up such that major defects get > reduced to listenable small defects. Definitely worth your time to > encode your own IMO. I was at one of NewTLUG meeting when Ken Brown gave a talk on this topic. From what I understand, to make what you hear from MP3 the same as what you hear from LP, it is not straightforward. I would need quite a bit "music/audio" background to decide what needs to be done, and how to do it. I'm sure Audacity has all the buttons. But, which button to press, how hard to press, and when to press it, etc... that requires "experience" and "aptitude". I lack both. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 06:06:34 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:06:34 +0000 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From: Christopher Browne >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: Xenophobia (was Re: [TLUG]: jobs in Linux / IT) >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:15:00 -0500 >There *are* jobs out there for "Linux professionals;" the thing about >it is that those doing hiring aren't fanatical about Linux, and aren't >after those who want to maximize cries of "Windows Sux!!!" > >What the recruiters are generally after aren't really "Linux" pros so >much as "Unix professionals." Very well said. This is 100% true in my experience. Imran. >-- >http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html >"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 06:23:10 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 01:23:10 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <43CDC881.9050106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58@mail.gmail.com> <43CDC881.9050106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601182223y523bfcd8rb8fc060fbf7a1c9c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/17/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Great. I'll get a copy of MediaWiki installed to try it then. > > Basically my plan is to query the db for a user's watchlist, so that > > all the customization of one's personal feed would require is that > > they manage their watchlist. > > > > If MW stores a "last viewed" time then it should be pretty painless, > > if not then it's SAL to the rescue. :-) > > Not sure if it would help, but MediaWiki uses two fields that might be > of interest: rc_timestamp & rc_cur_time. I'm not sure how you'd go about > it (if at all), but couldn't you query the timestamp(s) for any page in > the user's watch list? Thanks for your help. I'm at 28 minutes in implementing the prototype, took a bit to figure out the authentication part. Currently, it's functioning as an external (to MediaWiki) RSS 0.91 feed generator based on the MediaWiki users' watchlist. Basically, for each page in the user's watchlist it just dump's a copy of the page's most current contents into the associated RSS item's description tag. (Maybe the revision comments would be better than the page contents?) Doesn't do much in the way of error checking, doesn't limit the number of entries, and requires SAL (installable from CPAN) which still has little documentation. Tonnes of room for improvement. I'll put a proper page together soon, but the source is currently stored on my talk page at http://www.gtalug.org/wiki/User_talk:Dl33t [Please note that in order to authenticate, the users' name and password need to be sent to the script in plaintext... Using HTTPS (SSL, GET or POST) to access the feed generator is highly recommended.] > > Gotta sleep first tho... The AVP project is starting to materialize > > and between that and work, the days are awfully long. Lol, and I'd > > like to actually time how long it takes to implement a prototype after > > MW's installed. > > > > Curious, how long would you say it takes to setup a basic MW installation? > > You could do it in less than half an hour. 10 minutes if you try really > hard and know exactly where to click and which files to edit. I wouldn't > rush it the first time though. The web-based installer was pretty handy, maybe 10 minutes. Nicely done. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 06:40:34 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:40:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Linux version of windiff In-Reply-To: <1137546698.1860.1.camel@ambipapa> References: <1137546698.1860.1.camel@ambipapa> Message-ID: <87r774vhy6.fsf@gmail.com> Srinivasan> Meld (http://meld.sourceforge.net) I prefer to depend on the kitchen sink known as Emacs (rather than the two kitchen sinks known as Python and Gnome). So I use ediff and emerge. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 06:49:49 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:49:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <87mzhsvhir.fsf@gmail.com> William> Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. William> Does anyone here know free site for classical mp3's ? This one actually has a FOSS flavour. Not really for "warhorses", though, much better for pre-classical. Also good jazz section. http://magnatune.com/ -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 07:02:37 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:02:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition In-Reply-To: <43CF0E20.2040405-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CF0E20.2040405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <87irsgvgxf.fsf@gmail.com> Madison> Can I *quickly* get the number of files (and dirs, links, Madison> etc) on a given partition or under a certain directory? The two Madison> keeps are "quickly" and "partition"; it's can't traverse file Madison> systems /or/ be limited to a directory (and it's sub Madison> directories). Depends: 1/ what you mean by "file". Most Unix filesystems can link multiple names to a single entity known as inode. 2/ if you need _just_ complete partitions or arbitrary directory trees. If you're fine with counting just inodes on a complete partition, the answer is yes: man statfs(2) or man stat(1) (in particular the -f flag). Otherwise, you need someone smarter than me to answer :) -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 07:19:55 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52Z0hZ1rOlRyg at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:19:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <87mzhsvhir.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> <87mzhsvhir.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > William> Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. > William> Does anyone here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > This one actually has a FOSS flavour. Not really for "warhorses", > though, much better for pre-classical. Also good jazz section. > > http://magnatune.com/ Nice, though I'm not sure whether I like the announcer at the end. Now I'll get some sleep while its being cownloaded: lynx -dump http://magnatune.com/genres/classical/ | grep .m3u | while read a b do wget -O - "$b" done | while read line do wget -c "$line" done -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 07:29:53 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:29:53 -0500 Subject: OT: CIO Wisdom (Open Source, US) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601182329h56565d57kd3046f2cfa842d9d@mail.gmail.com> A google alert brought this interview transcript to my attention... in part it's on Open Source and where it may be going this year... but from a perspective in the business world. 'Bruce Taylor recently spoke with Dr. Phillip Laplante and Thomas Costello, co-authors of "CIO Wisdom II: More Best Practices". The discussion touches on best practices and lessons learned from CIOs. Following is an edited transcript of that conversation. You may also listen to the original interview here.' http://www.itworld.com/Man/3889/transcript_ciowisdom/ -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 07:37:36 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:37:36 -0500 Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition In-Reply-To: <87irsgvgxf.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43CF0E20.2040405@alteeve.com> <87irsgvgxf.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43CF41C0.2090600@alteeve.com> Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Madison> Can I *quickly* get the number of files (and dirs, links, > Madison> etc) on a given partition or under a certain directory? The two > Madison> keeps are "quickly" and "partition"; it's can't traverse file > Madison> systems /or/ be limited to a directory (and it's sub > Madison> directories). > > Depends: > > 1/ what you mean by "file". Most Unix filesystems can link multiple > names to a single entity known as inode. Files, directories and symlinks. Hard links and special files/devices I can ignore. > 2/ if you need _just_ complete partitions or arbitrary directory trees. > > If you're fine with counting just inodes on a complete partition, the > answer is yes: man statfs(2) or man stat(1) (in particular the -f flag). > > Otherwise, you need someone smarter than me to answer :) w00ts!! '# stat -f /' (where '/' is the root partition) works absolutely beautifully on 'ext*' file systems (at least). However, it doesn't work on an SMB mounted partitions (and others?) though... This is a huge step forward, but if you or anyone can think of a similar trick for other file systems (or perhaps a file system-agnostic method) that would be really helpful, too. In the mean time, I can check the FS and if it's one that this trick will work on I can go ahead and use the nicer progress bar and just fall back on the current scheme for unsupported file systems... at least until I can find similar tricks for them, too. Thank you *very* much!! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 13:53:35 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:53:35 -0500 Subject: Openview resources Message-ID: <20060119135335.GB992@ettin> Can any of you suggest good resources, book or website, where I might learn how to use HP Openview? I've been through a couple of HP documents so far but, they are polluted with market speak and offer little substance. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 22 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 14:19:01 2006 From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:01 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <20060113221017.GL18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BE7CED.7080907@gmail.com> <43C7D8BA.3060809@gmail.com> <20060113221017.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43CF9FD5.8050504@gmail.com> Lenn - It was the monitor settings, nothing to do with the vc driver(s). Monitor was set to unknown type, with a dpi setting of 0x0. Changed the dpi, and refresh rates, and was then able to set the resolution to 1280x1024, and using the VESA generic driver it works fine. Lenn, thx for your help and tips. And when I get the time, will definitely upgrade to a current distro. Any recommendation? I know, that's a loaded question, no need to answer. Thx. -Peter Lennart Sorensen wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TLUG]: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:10:17 -0500 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 11:43:38AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > > >>well, tracked down the latest drivers (OK, OK, they're old) at >>http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=18&CatID=2080&SubCatID=111, >>and installed them. >> >>didn't make any difference, still can't change the resolution above >>800x600, what step(s) am I missing? in fact, after changing the video >>card type to s3 savage4/savage, it reverted back to VESA driver >>(generic). obviously I've screwed up some where >> >>any and all help is appreciated >> >> > >Well you have to configure it to use the right driver, and you have to >make sure the monitor settings are correct, otherwise the monitor >settings limit the maximum resolution. And make sure no fb driver is >messing with the chip either. > >You could attach your X config for someone to look at perhaps. > >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 14:27:42 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad Slavoaca) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:27:42 -0500 Subject: Openview resources In-Reply-To: <20060119135335.GB992@ettin> References: <20060119135335.GB992@ettin> Message-ID: I recommend "HP OpenView System Administration Handbook: Network Node Manager Customer Views Service Information Portal OpenView Operations", ISBN 0130352098. Here's the relevant link... http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130352098/qid%3D1137680805/701-3328314-5109935 , because it's $25 cheaper than from Chapters Indigo. Cheers, -- Vlad On 1/19/06, Neil Watson wrote: > Can any of you suggest good resources, book or website, where I might > learn how to use HP Openview? I've been through a couple of HP > documents so far but, they are polluted with market speak and offer > little substance. > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > Network Administrator | Uptime 22 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 16:01:20 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:01:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition In-Reply-To: <43CF41C0.2090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CF41C0.2090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060119160120.70851.qmail@web61325.mail.yahoo.com> You can also use 'find' (to list the files) in combination with "wc" (to count the list). That will work with directory entry rather than inode (which is not available on smb file systems anyways). EK --- Madison Kelly wrote: > Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Madison> Can I *quickly* get the number of > files (and dirs, links, > > Madison> etc) on a given partition or under a > certain directory? The two > > Madison> keeps are "quickly" and "partition"; it's > can't traverse file > > Madison> systems /or/ be limited to a directory > (and it's sub > > Madison> directories). > > > > Depends: > > > > 1/ what you mean by "file". Most Unix filesystems > can link multiple > > names to a single entity known as inode. > > Files, directories and symlinks. Hard links and > special files/devices I > can ignore. > > > 2/ if you need _just_ complete partitions or > arbitrary directory trees. > > > > If you're fine with counting just inodes on a > complete partition, the > > answer is yes: man statfs(2) or man stat(1) (in > particular the -f flag). > > > > Otherwise, you need someone smarter than me to > answer :) > > w00ts!! > > '# stat -f /' (where '/' is the root partition) > works absolutely > beautifully on 'ext*' file systems (at least). > However, it doesn't work > on an SMB mounted partitions (and others?) though... > > This is a huge step forward, but if you or anyone > can think of a > similar trick for other file systems (or perhaps a > file system-agnostic > method) that would be really helpful, too. > > In the mean time, I can check the FS and if it's > one that this trick > will work on I can go ahead and use the nicer > progress bar and just fall > back on the current scheme for unsupported file > systems... at least > until I can find similar tricks for them, too. > > Thank you *very* much!! > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up > Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org > Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 18:19:15 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:19:15 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping Message-ID: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> Hi folks. I'm flailing around looking for any suggestions or resources that may exist regarding the election of, and shopping for, alternative suppliers of electricity and natural gas in the GTA. If you prefer not to 'pollute' the mailing list with something so clearly not Linux-related, send me a private response. But finding decent explanations of the system, let alone the options, have not been easy to come by. Toronto Hydro and Enbridge aren't exactly going to make it easy to find the competition. Thanks in advance for any help. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 18:26:08 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:26:08 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <43CFD823.6040408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:19:15PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > I'm flailing around looking for any suggestions or resources that may > exist regarding the election of, and shopping for, alternative suppliers > of electricity and natural gas in the GTA. > > If you prefer not to 'pollute' the mailing list with something so > clearly not Linux-related, send me a private response. But finding > decent explanations of the system, let alone the options, have not been > easy to come by. Toronto Hydro and Enbridge aren't exactly going to make > it easy to find the competition. > > Thanks in advance for any help. Actually, I'm interested any explanation, as to why people keep knocking on my doors trying to sell gas and (now) electricity. On surface, prices are fixed for 5 years. But, isn't that what government supposed to be doing already? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 18:47:12 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:47:12 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <20060119182608.GA2712-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> William Park wrote: >Actually, I'm interested any explanation, as to why people keep knocking >on my doors trying to sell gas and (now) electricity. On surface, prices are fixed for 5 years. But, isn't that what government supposed to be doing already? > > No. In fact from what I'm finding, the "default" suppliers (Enbridge, TorontoHydro) are not even allowed to fix rates. It seems that they estimate what the rate is going to be and charge you that. If it turns out they had to pay more, get get to recover it from you later as an adjustment. I started my energy shopping after receiving a bill for one such "adjustment". :-( - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 19:45:18 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:45:18 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <43CFDEB0.1060700-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:47:12PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > William Park wrote: > > >Actually, I'm interested any explanation, as to why people keep knocking > >on my doors trying to sell gas and (now) electricity. On surface, prices > >are fixed for 5 years. But, isn't that what government supposed to be > >doing already? > > > > > No. In fact from what I'm finding, the "default" suppliers (Enbridge, > TorontoHydro) are not even allowed to fix rates. It seems that they > estimate what the rate is going to be and charge you that. If it turns > out they had to pay more, get get to recover it from you later as an > adjustment. I started my energy shopping after receiving a bill for one > such "adjustment". :-( I meant that the people are coming to my doors, trying to sell me a 5 year fixed price. :-) On surface, their price of about ~$9 is cheaper than what will be ~$12 from Hydro Mississauga. I would still get the bills from Enbridge and Hydro Mississauga, but at a fixed price. But, they represent another "middleman" in all this. So, My question is, - why would it be cheaper for me to have one more "middlemen"? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 19:51:36 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:51:36 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <20060119194518.GA3121-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:47:12PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > William Park wrote: > But, they represent another "middleman" in all this. So, My question is, > - why would it be cheaper for me to have one more "middlemen"? Because it's the value of a supply-chain. A middleman can be cumbersome, especially within a business. But on the outside, it empowers B2B (bussiness-to-business) opportunities. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 20:24:37 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:24:37 -0500 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> One of the things that bugs me about communicating over the 'net is my spelling. It's not that I don't know how, I just don't spell check. ;-) But that's got me thinking over the last few days of some things I used to read in novels, and experience during role-playing games when I was younger. So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 20:35:30 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:35:30 -0500 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060119203530.GC3957@ettin> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:24:37PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be >referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? I hope not. The Internet has been a real boil on the English language. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 23 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 20:45:21 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users In-Reply-To: <20060119203530.GC3957@ettin> References: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> <20060119203530.GC3957@ettin> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601191245n7d09cfc8v9c6b3d684e1c3e11@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:24:37PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > >So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be > >referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? > > I hope not. The Internet has been a real boil on the English language. Lol. I hate English. Always sucked at it... bad. Other natural languages are no problem, but in English there's more in the way of exceptions than rules it seems. I guess what I was trying to get at, is that people on the net more or less "understand" what others are trying to say - even if it comes out worng. :-) -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 21:19:52 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:19:52 -0500 Subject: cygwin and gvim Message-ID: <20060119211952.GA5503@ettin> I've setup cygwin on my XP workstation. It is working well. I added gvim and attempted to start it then this error is returned: "No fonts found; this probably means that the fontconfig library is not correctly configured. You may need to edit the fonts.conf configuration file. More information about fontconfig can be found in the fontconfig(3) manual page and on http://fontconfig.org" There is a fonts.conf file provided by cygwin. I seems odd that I would have to touch it. Any suggestions? -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 23 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 21:33:29 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:33:29 -0500 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D005A9.5030903@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > One of the things that bugs me about communicating over the 'net is my > spelling. It's not that I don't know how, I just don't spell check. > ;-) For most email, there isn't much reason to not use spell checking, especially with Thunderbird 1.5! Even Outlook Express can be set to check messages (if office is installed of course!) before sending them. If you use mutt and nano for email, a simple ctrl-t will do. Email spelling mistakes seem just plain inexcusable. Forums, perhaps less so. > But that's got me thinking over the last few days of some things I > used to read in novels, and experience during role-playing games when > I was younger. > > So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be > referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? Take the word podcast: I heard an interview with someone from the Canadian Oxford Dictionary on CBC radio a month or less ago who said that though the word only really appeared in late 2004, the dictionary would suspend its 5 year rule and induct "podcast" into the dictionary after just one year. Google maxes out at just over 90,000,000 hits, so in that respect, I'd say that the answer to your question is a definite yes in a number of well known cases -- the word email being another for example... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 21:49:25 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:49:25 -0500 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users In-Reply-To: <43D005A9.5030903-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> <43D005A9.5030903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601191349j683562b7g18a93f0847f21123@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > especially with Thunderbird 1.5! Even Outlook Express can be set to > check messages (if office is installed of course!) before sending them. > If you use mutt and nano for email, a simple ctrl-t will do. Email > spelling mistakes seem just plain inexcusable. Forums, perhaps less so. Mutt and Nano are two of my favorite tools and I use them all the time, but haven't really learned them. I think maybe it's about time to. I've never tried setting up an additional client for gmail - I just use their interface and haven't gone looking for a spell checker since we're planning to implement a complete business infrastructure over the next month or two. At that point, my primary email should be moving to our inhouse Zimbra webmail system which includes (IIRC) spell-checking among it's many features. > > So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be > > referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? > > Take the word podcast: I heard an interview with someone from the > Canadian Oxford Dictionary on CBC radio a month or less ago who said > that though the word only really appeared in late 2004, the dictionary > would suspend its 5 year rule and induct "podcast" into the dictionary > after just one year. Google maxes out at just over 90,000,000 hits, so > in that respect, I'd say that the answer to your question is a definite > yes in a number of well known cases -- the word email being another for > example... Interesting... Thanks again! -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 22:12:50 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: > One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then 100mbit to > the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit everywhere? Definiately. A single 100MBit pipe from the server would be a huge bottle neck for all of the thin clients. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 22:48:02 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 19 Jan 2006 17:48:02 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Scott Elcomb writes: > On 1/19/06, William Park wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:47:12PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > William Park wrote: > > But, they represent another "middleman" in all this. So, My question is, > > - why would it be cheaper for me to have one more "middlemen"? > > Because it's the value of a supply-chain. > > A middleman can be cumbersome, especially within a business. But on > the outside, it empowers B2B (bussiness-to-business) opportunities. That's pretty vague. As it was explained to me at the door, by entering into a fixed price contract, you allow energy suppliers (the middlemen) to buy energy resources in bulk. By making an up front committment, you make it easier for them (and their suppliers) to manage their supply which helps them to negotiate a better price (on behalf of a large group of consumers). -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 23:07:09 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:07:09 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 19 Jan 2006 17:48:02 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > Scott Elcomb writes: > > > On 1/19/06, William Park wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:47:12PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > William Park wrote: > > > But, they represent another "middleman" in all this. So, My question is, > > > - why would it be cheaper for me to have one more "middlemen"? > > > > Because it's the value of a supply-chain. > > > > A middleman can be cumbersome, especially within a business. But on > > the outside, it empowers B2B (bussiness-to-business) opportunities. > > That's pretty vague. As it was explained to me at the door, by entering into > a fixed price contract, you allow energy suppliers (the middlemen) to buy > energy resources in bulk. By making an up front committment, you make it > easier for them (and their suppliers) to manage their supply which helps them > to negotiate a better price (on behalf of a large group of consumers). But this doesn't explain why it is beneficial to get an extra middlecritter in between you and OPG, who are probably the same people that were providing the power both before and after the transaction. It may be that this was initiated during the last Ontario Conservative government, where they might have billed the merits as being that this is all about "increasing competition." Which is so much nonsense if you don't actually get to deal with a multiplicity of actual suppliers... Having *actual* competition has some merit, but this is merely a chimera of competition... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 19 23:37:40 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 19 Jan 2006 18:37:40 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > On 19 Jan 2006 17:48:02 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > Scott Elcomb writes: > > > > > On 1/19/06, William Park wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:47:12PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > > William Park wrote: > > > > But, they represent another "middleman" in all this. So, My question is, > > > > - why would it be cheaper for me to have one more "middlemen"? > > > > > > Because it's the value of a supply-chain. > > > > > > A middleman can be cumbersome, especially within a business. But on > > > the outside, it empowers B2B (bussiness-to-business) opportunities. > > > > That's pretty vague. As it was explained to me at the door, by entering into > > a fixed price contract, you allow energy suppliers (the middlemen) to buy > > energy resources in bulk. By making an up front committment, you make it > > easier for them (and their suppliers) to manage their supply which helps them > > to negotiate a better price (on behalf of a large group of consumers). > > But this doesn't explain why it is beneficial to get an extra > middlecritter in between you and OPG, who are probably the same people > that were providing the power both before and after the transaction. > > It may be that this was initiated during the last Ontario Conservative > government, where they might have billed the merits as being that this > is all about "increasing competition." Which is so much nonsense if > you don't actually get to deal with a multiplicity of actual > suppliers... Having *actual* competition has some merit, but this is > merely a chimera of competition... Agree about the politics but I was referring to gas. In that case, as I understand it and I could well be wrong, the middlemen buy from the large energy producers and arrange for (or buy) distribution to your home through the local monopoly (Enbridge). Since there are multiple natural gas producers, this does offer the consumer a measure of competition without requiring multiple gas lines to everyone's house. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 00:18:40 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:18:40 -0500 Subject: a Linux video programmer needed In-Reply-To: References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D02C60.7000602@istop.com> This is not strictly a job announcement. It is about an opportunity to participate in development of an interesting project (for money, of course). I do some work with that company and am somehow responsible in finding a person willing and able to do video programming on Linux. A Windows version of the program does already exist. My guess is however that Linux one would need to either be done from scratch or based on existing software. The project would take a few months, and most likely would be done by the Programmer after normal working hours (unless he/she does not have a work, currently) , from home. There is a large flexibility on how the work would be awarded, what possibly existing source code would be used, etc. The programmer would have an opportunity to establish a strong and lasting relationship with that company. If any one is potentially interested in or has questions, or knows someone out of this list who might be able to do the work - please write directly to me. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 00:30:07 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:30:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition In-Reply-To: <43CF41C0.2090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CF0E20.2040405@alteeve.com> <87irsgvgxf.fsf@gmail.com> <43CF41C0.2090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <87hd7zeo6p.fsf@gmail.com> Ian> 1/ what you mean by "file". Most Unix filesystems can link Ian> multiple names to a single entity known as inode. Madison> Files, directories and symlinks. Hard links and special Madison> files/devices I can ignore. Well, that's just the point - _everything_ is a hard link. What you're thinking of as "hard link" is really the 2nd hard link to the inode, while the "normal" file is the 1st hard link. But hard linking is probably rare enough these days that you can just accept the slight overcount. Madison> works absolutely beautifully on 'ext*' file systems (at Madison> least). However, it doesn't work on an SMB mounted partitions Madison> (and others?) though... Although I don't use them, I am pretty sure it will work on JFS and XFS too. SMB is the exception because it is an import from the evil empire. If there is a way, it's going to be M$pecific. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 02:34:04 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:34:04 -0600 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601191834p1b49abc5h945356a5b5de156c@mail.gmail.com> First, thanks everyone for feedback. I've already started the effort to figure out just what code has been shamelessly adopted, then I'll go check out licenses while we figure out just how much code has been modified at our end. After that, I want to get patches delivered for any changes we made, so that things are cleaner. I think all of that is necessary regardless of any decisions on the project's direction. Aaron mentioned the "always on" aspect. Soon enough I will want database mirroring to another server (a fallback server). This has already been researched and is doable. MySQL has some nifty features for having secondary servers. After that I'll want to have a mirroring function so that I can keep a copy on my machine. It's been a good experience to have things online like this.. now my biggest worry has to be the office net connection.. it's "low highspeed" to be polite about it. Maybe I should start a separate thread to whine about that. ;) At some point it'd be nice to have the application usable offline on a computer and maybe one day (probably never) on a portable toy of some kind. Being able to use it offline and then connect and have it sync the changes would be nice.. probably hairy with good old wiki-style "edit collisions" but maybe it can be done. Now as far as "trust" goes.. I completely agree that there are trust issues. I don't like the idea of having my most irrelevant todo stuff hosted elsewhere, especially if I can't easily download it and use it on my end. I certainly wouldn't have business info hosted somewhere shared. The idea that a business might want a chunk of a server set aside just for their purposes is an intriguing one. I think that some sort of publically-viewable thingy has to happen, regardless of the code being open or not. Maybe that first step will get feedback that helps us with our decision. I kindof want some engine by which all the feature requests and bug reports for it are open.. because that will demonstrate some of its functionality. Then the rest can just be a prepared demo and a sandbox on the side. No we're not into selling services, but we're starting to look in that direction. We've been asked to set up hosting for a few customers and that's gone well enough that we're perfectly fine with reselling that service. Applications look almost like free money.. carve out a piece of a host, set up a free application, tweak it and support it for a customer. A strange thought.. if the application were completely GPLed.. but we were a major contributor of code and insight, I think that alone would really favour us for providing hosting or customization as a service. In this sense, our continued interest in it would tether it fairly close to its old home. Again, some of this is dreaming.. we still have it in mind that it would require a complete rewrite from scratch at some point. Sure it looks good and it works quite well.. but the real world is much more harsh than a developer's box. I know there are a lot of creepy-crawley features waiting to be found. =) I mean.. the real world would want cool things like .. skinnability, easy multilingualism, administrator-controlled featuresets and all kinds of wonderful things which aren't making us itchy right now. =) As an aside, I think the biggest thing I'd want changed in a rewrite is to use postgres instead of mysql. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 03:48:09 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:48:09 -0600 Subject: OT: A question for Role-Playing Gamers, Sci-Fi Addicts, and Internet Users In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601191224q12b837aag5c367bdb6382050d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601191948j394717d3qfa38d748d754df01@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > So here's my question - is 'net-speak developing into what used to be > referred to (in said games and novels) as "common" speak? Absolutely not. Think of it this way.. when you go out into the net, are there freakish corners whose use of language causes you offence? Leetspeak, idiots with bad spelling, people who misuse caps, people who use too many commas in a sentance, people who can't spell sentence. Language will ebb and flow in various directions at various paces, and there will be "sections" as it were, of netspace which will follow varying trends. At no point will any of those trends become particularly "common" because the people who follow those trends are idiots. And non-idiots are doing all of the buying, selling and supporting of the net. All the real content out there will shy away from the common tongue. As people grow up they'll be absorbed into the body of adult contributors. Now.. it's fair to ask if that body of idiots will become empowered enough could their mannerisms somehow become common between them? I suppose some trends have become common. Emotocons for example. Some other plain text concepts are still around to some degree.. /italics/ *bold* _underline_ -strikethrough- but that stuff's sortof stuck in email still. Emotocons have evolved into pretty little graphics.. that's become a common language. I'm still mad about that. And then you can examine particular online experiences.. various games do share some lingo, but many of them have their own specific lingo. A lot of the language changes are just shortforms. I think the shortform concept itself could be considered common. Think of it this way.. there are a lot of little girls out there who are wearing boots. They're wearing boots because they're "cool". Most of them don't even know why it's cool. At some point some loser celeb went on a spending spree and bought some fancy fur boots. Now everywhere I go I see varying forms of this fad. Some are decent knockoffs with stupid-looking furry boots, some are just frilled and some are just boots. The boot isn't some kind of "common fashion" it's a trend. Two things are going to happen: * The population will slowly grow up and will begin to exert pressure in their immediate group to stop being a bunch of followers or at least stop looking so stupid. * Enough of the younger generation will come in and not really get this "old" trend.. and they'll pick up something else instead. Eventually the fad will die out because it's fairly "loud" right now. Maybe jeans were a loud trend but that somehow stuck so I'm sure there's more to this. As an exercise, pick any little girl trend out.. because they're easy to see. Crimped hair, top-knots, died hair, piercings, single streaks of colour. Pick funny guy trends out.. baggy pants, sports clothing, baseball caps on wrong. Oversized baseball caps. Hey, leaving the tag on was cool at one point. Now see all that translated into type. Bunches of munchkins, the lot of them. Trends will go here and there. What sticks might become a common tongue, except for the fact that the major scene is still.. corporate interest and.. well you and I really. Will man pages start being translated into that "common"? Nope. Ok, bad example.. they're not really english anyways. Let's take the extreme.. will openly collaborated documentation use elements of some kind of common tongue? No. The 'common' which might exist would only ever be some kind of underclass idiotspeak used in casual conversation. Even then it'll rise and fall like tides as various trends pop up and are eventually evicted from general interest. I suppose the one particularly curious angle is.. can commercialism somehow capitalise on idiotspeak to better communica.. uh.. brainwash and advertise to an audience? The one thing which has been done is to fabricate the trends so as to better capitalize on them. I'm thinking popular music for that one. Can that sort of trend-creation translate to type or to the internet? .. that's a multi-billion dollar question. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 04:05:51 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:05:51 -0600 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > Building a todo application has been a very strong interest at my new > > work/company. In fact we're wrapping much of the way our people plan > > and interact around the todo concept. > > You might want to check out the demo video at: > http://www.dabbledb.com/about/ > Actually, the video is linked off the blog. > > It's not open-source, but it's very different from most any > other web application. Underneath, I know its built with > Squeak and Seaside, and probably an object database for > persistence. One of the principals is in fact the inventor > of Seaside, and he'll be giving a talk at the upcoming > LinuxWorld/NetworkWorld conference in April. I think the biggest problem I've faced with using a technology to be more productive is that it has been an impossibly intimidating thing for me to figure out just *how* to use the tools to make myself productive. For me, using something which is infinitely flexible means that I'll never really use it. Somehow the tool has to force me to think and work in a manner which is smart and still comfortable. Dabble DB looks interesting, and I've got it noted as something to look over for ideas, but it's not for me. As an aside, I was looking into squeak (etc) and seaside.. looks interesting, and I adore a lot of stuff I saw.. but the development tools are like wearing mittens because the interface was nothing short of a horrific experience. Uuuuugh. ugh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 04:18:36 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:18:36 -0600 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601182223y523bfcd8rb8fc060fbf7a1c9c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <20060106100549.A30013@diamond.ss.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58@mail.gmail.com> <43CDC881.9050106@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0601182223y523bfcd8rb8fc060fbf7a1c9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601192018h1a21dff9q39006925671278d2@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'll put a proper page together soon, but the source is currently > stored on my talk page at http://www.gtalug.org/wiki/User_talk:Dl33t I whipped up a page on meta, and categorized it so that others who are hacking around with mediawiki can find your work: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sysy/Scott_Elcomb%27s_RSS_hack > The web-based installer was pretty handy, maybe 10 minutes. Nicely done. Indeed. It's also great when doing simple upgrades. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 04:34:00 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:34:00 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router Message-ID: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I recently purchased the Linksys WRT54G router. I have received (thank you TLUG) some advice about how to plug it into my network. I need one more piece of advice. In many places in the (nearly non-existent) documentation leaflet, and on the device itself, I am instructed to RUN CD FIRST, before connecting cables. Here's the thing - this CD is for windoze boxen, and I am not about to find a copy of windoze just to run a CD unless I absolutely have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its IP address? Thanks again. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 04:45:45 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:45:45 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060120043400.GA20914-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200601192345.45397.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Thursday 19 January 2006 23:34, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I recently purchased the Linksys WRT54G router. I have received (thank > you TLUG) some advice about how to plug it into my network. I need one > more piece of advice. > > In many places in the (nearly non-existent) documentation leaflet, and > on the device itself, I am instructed to RUN CD FIRST, before connecting > cables. Here's the thing - this CD is for windoze boxen, and I am not > about to find a copy of windoze just to run a CD unless I absolutely > have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I > just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its > IP address? Thanks again. Just plug it in. Then go to http://192.168.1.1 and login with u:admin p:admin and configure all your settings. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 05:03:52 2006 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:03:52 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060120043400.GA20914-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:34:00PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I > just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its > IP address? What happened when you tried it? It will work fine without the CD. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 06:36:57 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:36:57 -0500 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby (was: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO") In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > As an aside, I was looking into squeak (etc) and seaside.. looks > interesting, and I adore a lot of stuff I saw.. but the development > tools are like wearing mittens because the interface was nothing short > of a horrific experience. Uuuuugh. ugh. Funny, I tried the online demo of Ruby that advertised a 15 minute tutorial. But I only got through 3 minutes of it before I got tired of it - I got the feeling there was not going to be any "meat". Anyways, I'd be interested in a Ruby/Rails presentation given by an expert. I've been hoping to drop in on one of the TRUG meetings. Also, I'd be happy to show how you how Seaside development works. Many people initially react badly to Squeak, but with a Ruby background, the language should not be the issue. Rather the image-based enviroment is likely the impediment. (The garish default colours also put off many people.) -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 06:44:31 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:44:31 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601191834p1b49abc5h945356a5b5de156c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601191834p1b49abc5h945356a5b5de156c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601192244h26d5ba92wd9859b1041bfe67b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Sy Ali wrote: ... > A strange thought.. if the application were completely GPLed.. but we > were a major contributor of code and insight, I think that alone would > really favour us for providing hosting or customization as a service. > In this sense, our continued interest in it would tether it fairly > close to its old home. With focused leadership, there's no reason why your organization shouldn't be able to guide the project along. Every project needs a maintainer, non? > Again, some of this is dreaming.. we still have it in mind that it > would require a complete rewrite from scratch at some point. Sure it > looks good and it works quite well.. but the real world is much more > harsh than a developer's box. I know there are a lot of > creepy-crawley features waiting to be found. =) You've got the app. If you give them the source, they will come. Work with your community and provide strong leadership on project matters... delegate the rewrite tasks -- find ways to let the community help you with your rewrite efforts, while building a bigger, better product and/or service. > I mean.. the real world would want cool things like .. skinnability, > easy multilingualism, administrator-controlled featuresets and all > kinds of wonderful things which aren't making us itchy right now. =) > > As an aside, I think the biggest thing I'd want changed in a rewrite > is to use postgres instead of mysql. postgres... people keep saying that. Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 07:27:37 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:27:37 -0500 Subject: GTALUG RSS? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601192018h1a21dff9q39006925671278d2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43BE2E9E.2060004@telly.org> <43BE8B04.5050807@utoronto.ca> <43BE9683.80709@telly.org> <1e55af990601061344l70a39ab1kf9540912ad45e71d@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601162032h6f231ec5g4ee0bc2fa7ff7da5@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601170830i6653c6a4l42c590e355036d13@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601171824j1adff62fu6ca08ba98e5e2a58@mail.gmail.com> <43CDC881.9050106@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0601182223y523bfcd8rb8fc060fbf7a1c9c@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192018h1a21dff9q39006925671278d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601192327r43dd4d93yc529f9f23a86c7b4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/19/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > I'll put a proper page together soon, but the source is currently > > stored on my talk page at http://www.gtalug.org/wiki/User_talk:Dl33t > > I whipped up a page on meta, and categorized it so that others who are > hacking around with mediawiki can find your work: > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sysy/Scott_Elcomb%27s_RSS_hack Many thanks! :-) -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 15:16:52 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:16:52 -0500 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby (was: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO") In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> Are you referring to this presentation? http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_take2_with_sound.mov This is THE demo that seems to have blown everyone away, and turned Ruby from a curiosity into a Rails-driven monster. To be sure this demo is a starting point, but the site has a lot more meat to it. http://www.rubyonrails.com/docs Give it more than 3 minutes and you'll see. Cheers, Aaron. On 1/20/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > As an aside, I was looking into squeak (etc) and seaside.. looks > > interesting, and I adore a lot of stuff I saw.. but the development > > tools are like wearing mittens because the interface was nothing short > > of a horrific experience. Uuuuugh. ugh. > > Funny, I tried the online demo of Ruby that advertised > a 15 minute tutorial. But I only got through 3 minutes > of it before I got tired of it - I got the feeling there > was not going to be any "meat". > > Anyways, I'd be interested in a Ruby/Rails presentation > given by an expert. I've been hoping to drop in on one > of the TRUG meetings. Also, I'd be happy to show how you > how Seaside development works. Many people initially react > badly to Squeak, but with a Ruby background, the language > should not be the issue. Rather the image-based enviroment > is likely the impediment. (The garish default colours also > put off many people.) > > -- > Yanni Chiu > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 15:49:06 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:49:06 -0500 Subject: OpenLDAP querries Message-ID: <768631270601200749u510daf88udf0220cac2a0e9f9@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have two routines, both do paged searches however one returns all attributes and the other returns no attributes. The ldap procedure to return no attributes returns all 11,000 entries in pages of 50 each (or even 100). The routine that returns all (non operational) attributes, only returns 451 objects and (with a page size of 50) and 491 objects (with a page size of 10). Then aborts with "the size limit has been reached" Any guesses? Is there some hard limit on openldap? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 16:06:42 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:06:42 -0500 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aaron Vegh wrote: > Are you referring to this presentation? No. It's a tutorial on a website where you follow the instructions and type code that's sent to an interpeter. It's about the features of the Ruby language itself. BTW, Ruby was invented as a way to put Smalltalk (i.e. Squeak) into a more familiar enviroment of file-based developers. I was wanting to get a feel for what working in Ruby was like, but the tutorial was doing strings, collections, etc. in an interpeter window, at the point where I stopped. The movie below gives me a much better feel for what it's like to work in Ruby. > http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_take2_with_sound.mov Thanks for the link. If I were not coming from a Seaside/Squeak perspective, then I'd be wildly impressed. > This is THE demo that seems to have blown everyone away, and turned > Ruby from a curiosity into a Rails-driven monster. To be sure this > demo is a starting point, but the site has a lot more meat to it. > > http://www.rubyonrails.com/docs > > Give it more than 3 minutes and you'll see. Applications almost always get tricky at a certain level of complexity. What I want to know is how Ruby/Rails can let you stray from the norm. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 16:16:45 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:16:45 -0500 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601200816v7e9b9444w2f0f7a8ec1735e22@mail.gmail.com> Hi Yanni, I don't want to come across as a Rails zealot, especially since I'm just starting to learn it! As a PHP developer looking for a more structured development environment, I really like what Rails has to offer, and I find that Ruby is a very elegant language in its own way. I purchased the one book available for Rails, which you can also buy as a downloadable PDF with free updates (sweet): http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/rails/index.html But having gone through about a third of that book, I think I have gotten more out of this shorter PDF: http://www.rails4days.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Rails4Days.pdf And here, despite about three errors in the text that actually helped me really get in and understand how Rails works, I think I really had my "aha!" moment and understood how it all fits together: ergo, just how flexible the environment is: you can swap in your own code quite easily and replace Rails methods with your own. The credo of the project is, we'll provide you with the basics, but you can do it your own way at any point. Very elegant and very orthogonal, as ESR might put it. http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch04s02.html#orthogonality Cheers, Aaron. On 1/20/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Are you referring to this presentation? > > No. It's a tutorial on a website where you follow the instructions > and type code that's sent to an interpeter. It's about the features > of the Ruby language itself. BTW, Ruby was invented as a way > to put Smalltalk (i.e. Squeak) into a more familiar enviroment > of file-based developers. I was wanting to get a feel for what > working in Ruby was like, but the tutorial was doing strings, > collections, etc. in an interpeter window, at the point where > I stopped. The movie below gives me a much better feel for what > it's like to work in Ruby. > > > http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_take2_with_sound.mov > > Thanks for the link. If I were not coming from a Seaside/Squeak > perspective, then I'd be wildly impressed. > > > This is THE demo that seems to have blown everyone away, and turned > > Ruby from a curiosity into a Rails-driven monster. To be sure this > > demo is a starting point, but the site has a lot more meat to it. > > > > http://www.rubyonrails.com/docs > > > > Give it more than 3 minutes and you'll see. > > Applications almost always get tricky at a certain level of > complexity. What I want to know is how Ruby/Rails can let > you stray from the norm. > > -- > Yanni Chiu > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 16:28:28 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:28:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <20060117024931.GA5136-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > brownouts. > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > further details. I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines during the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any difference. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 18:00:28 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 20 Jan 2006 13:00:28 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: John Vetterli writes: > On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > > A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > > brownouts. > > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > > A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > > between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > > 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > > See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > > further details. > > I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines during > the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any difference. I was at a client's site and their private 10Mbps link to their colo went down around 10:00 a.m. Coincidence? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 17:51:05 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:51:05 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 Message-ID: One client. Blew one half of their power grid, ended up estimated 60v on one phase. Totalled a minolta scanner/copier and about 2 hrs downtime Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry) PIN 30073084 (as of May 9,2005) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: Toronto Linux Users Group Sent: Fri Jan 20 11:28:28 2006 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > brownouts. > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > further details. I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines during the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any difference. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 21:02:50 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:02:50 -0600 Subject: 40 hour work days - Was: Open Source and my company's web application Message-ID: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. Polyphasic sleep can give 22 functional hours of uptime per day. Steve Pavlina has been doing and blogging about it for 90 days. My business partner has been doing it for a while now, although he's switching to solid "core sleep" (4.5 hours before, now 3 hours) and naps from the original 15-25 minute naps. The one biggest complaint of polyphasic sleepers is that they have so much time on their hands that they get confused at how to organize it all. Hence the todo application fascination from my side of things. =) http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/01/polyphasic-sleep-update-day-90/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep My own past experience is with 21-23 hours of uptime, although that's via lucid dreaming. I'm retired now, but it was an interesting experience. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming Now I'm just a lazy bastard who likes todo applications for making it easier to write tickets for other people. *grin* -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 21:10:05 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:10:05 -0500 Subject: 40 hour work days - Was: Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601201310p2446b5bcte8e062ac7a2d44d8@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the link Sy, that's utterly fascinating... Aaron. On 1/20/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/20/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. > > Polyphasic sleep can give 22 functional hours of uptime per day. > Steve Pavlina has been doing and blogging about it for 90 days. My > business partner has been doing it for a while now, although he's > switching to solid "core sleep" (4.5 hours before, now 3 hours) and > naps from the original 15-25 minute naps. > > The one biggest complaint of polyphasic sleepers is that they have so > much time on their hands that they get confused at how to organize it > all. Hence the todo application fascination from my side of things. > =) > > http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/01/polyphasic-sleep-update-day-90/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep > > My own past experience is with 21-23 hours of uptime, although that's > via lucid dreaming. I'm retired now, but it was an interesting > experience. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming > > > Now I'm just a lazy bastard who likes todo applications for making it > easier to write tickets for other people. *grin* > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 21:25:32 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:25:32 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Christopher Browne wrote: > But this doesn't explain why it is beneficial to get an extra > middlecritter in between you and OPG, who are probably the same people > that were providing the power both before and after the transaction. It isn't always beneficial. It's a *fixed* price, if the price goes down, you don't get a break. What you're effectively doing is investing in energy "futures", and therefore making a bet on which direction the price is going to go. If it goes up, you win; if it goes down, you lose. Since energy prices have continued to rise, few have seen a losing bet. So salespeople can continue to push the myth that their fixed price contracts are cheaper. IMO, if you really want to invest in energy futures, go to the financial markets and buy them directly - then you'll really cut out the middleman. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 22:28:01 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:28:01 -0500 Subject: 40 hour work days - Was: Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601201428x60dd4717w3bc16b0d3d5f82f8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/20/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. > > Polyphasic sleep can give 22 functional hours of uptime per day. > Steve Pavlina has been doing and blogging about it for 90 days. My > business partner has been doing it for a while now, although he's > switching to solid "core sleep" (4.5 hours before, now 3 hours) and > naps from the original 15-25 minute naps. > > The one biggest complaint of polyphasic sleepers is that they have so > much time on their hands that they get confused at how to organize it > all. Hence the todo application fascination from my side of things. > =) > > http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/01/polyphasic-sleep-update-day-90/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep I've heard that Da Vinci took that approach, and have always been curious about it. I've been struggling with sleep for severl years, trying everything from strict schedules to 32 hour days (which didn't work well). Thanks for the resources, gives me a new direction to look. > My own past experience is with 21-23 hours of uptime, although that's > via lucid dreaming. I'm retired now, but it was an interesting > experience. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming When I was 14 or 15, I played with LD a bit. Never really mastered it, but it's stayed with me in a limited fashion over the years; once in a blue moon I'll realize I'm dreaming during sleep - at which point I usually start working on finding solutions to really convoluted problems. > Now I'm just a lazy bastard who likes todo applications for making it > easier to write tickets for other people. *grin* Your todo list handles tickets as well? -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 22:59:03 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:59:03 +0000 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This was posted on a major job search site: Position: Web Developer Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); WEBLOGIC (7 years); ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); LOADRUNNER (7 years); HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); Location: Toronto (Ontario, Canada) Duration: Negotiable Rate/Salary: Negotiable Start Date: ASAP -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:18:59 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:18:59 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601201518h488bbf2t80bb374f0af68c0e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: > Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This > was posted on a major job search site: > > Position: Web Developer > > Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); WEBLOGIC > (7 years); > ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); LOADRUNNER > (7 years); > HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); > > Location: Toronto (Ontario, Canada) > Duration: Negotiable > Rate/Salary: Negotiable > Start Date: ASAP 88 years of combined experience... Ouch! I'd like to shake the hand of whoever get's that position. :-) -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:28:49 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:28:49 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <43D17231.5060409@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: >> A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to >> brownouts. >> The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine >> voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. >> A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place >> between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from >> 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. >> See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for >> further details. > > I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines > during the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any > difference. No, nothing here. Not even an e-mail from my UPS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:33:56 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:33:56 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <43D17364.6050203@rogers.com> Tim Writer wrote: > John Vetterli writes: > >> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: >>> A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to >>> brownouts. >>> The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine >>> voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. >>> A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place >>> between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from >>> 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. >>> See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for >>> further details. >> I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines during >> the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any difference. > > I was at a client's site and their private 10Mbps link to their colo went > down around 10:00 a.m. Coincidence? > Telecom companies have extensive power backup systems, that make it unlikely for such a problem to occur in their facilities. Any sign of failure within the client's office? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:24:11 2006 From: sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org (Sacha Chua) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:24:11 -0500 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Sy Ali's message of "Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:05:51 -0600") References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87k6cuo544.fsf@sacha.adphoto.com.ph> Sy Ali writes: > I think the biggest problem I've faced with using a technology to be > more productive is that it has been an impossibly intimidating thing > for me to figure out just *how* to use the tools to make myself > productive. The trick is not to become incredibly more productive all in one go. It's much easier and more effective to tweak things just a little at a time, giving yourself enough time to get used to things. The personal information manager I use is insanely flexible and I've got a really funky config for it, but I didn't figure everything out at the start. I just put in the basics, then figured out little things that made me happier. =) Slowing down change also saved me from the temptation to just keep tweaking my system. ;) Sacha -- Sacha Chua - open source, free software geekette http://sacha.free.net.ph/ - PGP Key ID: 0xE7FDF77C interests: emacs, gnu/linux, personal information management, public speaking sachac on irc.freenode.net#emacs . YM: sachachua83 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:40:49 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:40:49 -0600 Subject: 40 hour work days - Was: Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601201428x60dd4717w3bc16b0d3d5f82f8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601201428x60dd4717w3bc16b0d3d5f82f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601201540y16e5fb64u50923df95e13561d@mail.gmail.com> Glad you guys like the research.. I'm thinking of doing the polyphasic sleep thing myself, since.. umm.. well I have a couch at work which "the boss" naps on, so it'd be ok for me too. =) On 1/20/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Now I'm just a lazy bastard who likes todo applications for making it > > easier to write tickets for other people. *grin* > > Your todo list handles tickets as well? Well yes.. they're essentially the same thing, so we made them the same thing. It was, afterall, made to obsolete trac for tracking bugs/requests. I can make a todo for myself, or a todo for someone else.. it gets automatically weighted in a priority scheme based on where I made it and all that jazz. The general idea is to be able to go from "aha" to "todo" in as short a time as possible.. so I can then forget the aha and continue working on stuff that's important right now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:43:15 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:43:15 -0600 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: <87k6cuo544.fsf-uD3Dy0p8L8fv7aDZy8m+EugtjjKxYvVk@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <87k6cuo544.fsf@sacha.adphoto.com.ph> Message-ID: <1e55af990601201543g26db8167xe2ec8f6c12808eaf@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Sacha Chua wrote: > Sy Ali writes: > > > I think the biggest problem I've faced with using a technology to be > > more productive is that it has been an impossibly intimidating thing > > for me to figure out just *how* to use the tools to make myself > > productive. > > The trick is not to become incredibly more productive all in one go. > It's much easier and more effective to tweak things just a little at a > time, giving yourself enough time to get used to things. The personal > information manager I use is insanely flexible and I've got a really > funky config for it, but I didn't figure everything out at the start. > I just put in the basics, then figured out little things that made me > happier. =) Slowing down change also saved me from the temptation to > just keep tweaking my system. ;) I've heard this before.. it's a good philosophy. I think it must also apply to all sorts of other things.. I've had the misfortune of just jumping into things and then getting confused at how to make the best use of myself. I guess really flexible systems would profit from having a couple of sane default templates/methods/interfaces to give to beginners and then as they grow into things they tweak as they go. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 20 23:54:03 2006 From: sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org (Sacha Chua) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:54:03 -0500 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601201543g26db8167xe2ec8f6c12808eaf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> (Sy Ali's message of "Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:43:15 -0600") References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <87k6cuo544.fsf@sacha.adphoto.com.ph> <1e55af990601201543g26db8167xe2ec8f6c12808eaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87lkxamp5w.fsf@sacha.adphoto.com.ph> Sy Ali writes: > I guess really flexible systems would profit from having a couple of > sane default templates/methods/interfaces to give to beginners and > then as they grow into things they tweak as they go. One of the good things about talking about personal information management with other people is that you get a sense of what works for them and you can borrow their config if you like it. =) For example, I now use my task list to manage my appointments, too. I have a bit of code that sorts tasks by the time (ex: @1300). Unscheduled tasks are sorted by priority and then status. =) It's pretty easy to change sorting rules when I need to. I can make certain tasks bubble up to the top or I can manually reorder them if I want. Pretty handy. =) It's something you have to get a feel for... -- Sacha Chua - open source, free software geekette http://sacha.free.net.ph/ - PGP Key ID: 0xE7FDF77C interests: emacs, gnu/linux, personal information management, public speaking sachac on irc.freenode.net#emacs . YM: sachachua83 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 00:49:58 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:49:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601201518h488bbf2t80bb374f0af68c0e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601201518h488bbf2t80bb374f0af68c0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50630.207.188.65.194.1137804598.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Maybe they mean it like the jail sentences that run concurrently. So you could do unix, java, apache, weblogic, asp, com, vbscript, IIS, loadrunner, html, firewall, linux and sql at the same time for seven years. You could call it Attention Deficit Disorder programming. ;). > On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: >> Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... >> This >> was posted on a major job search site: >> >> Position: Web Developer >> >> Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); >> WEBLOGIC >> (7 years); >> ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); >> LOADRUNNER >> (7 years); >> HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); >> >> Location: Toronto (Ontario, Canada) >> Duration: Negotiable >> Rate/Salary: Negotiable >> Start Date: ASAP > > 88 years of combined experience... Ouch! > > I'd like to shake the hand of whoever get's that position. :-) > > -- > Scott Elcomb > psema4.gotdns.com > > Canada Votes 2006 - Election Talk > http://nodice.ca/etalk/index.php > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Peter Hiscocks Professor Emeritus, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ryerson University 416-465-3007 www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 00:50:44 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:50:44 -0500 Subject: 40 hour work days - Was: Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601201310p2446b5bcte8e062ac7a2d44d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601201302m3b82c92die481254e749a085c@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601201310p2446b5bcte8e062ac7a2d44d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D18564.5080607@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks for the link Sy, that's utterly fascinating... > > Aaron. > > On 1/20/06, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 1/20/06, Scott Elcomb wrote: >>> Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. >> Polyphasic sleep can give 22 functional hours of uptime per day. >> Steve Pavlina has been doing and blogging about it for 90 days. My >> business partner has been doing it for a while now, although he's >> switching to solid "core sleep" (4.5 hours before, now 3 hours) and >> naps from the original 15-25 minute naps. If you can't get everything done in a 24 hour day, try working nights. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 00:53:48 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:53:48 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D1861C.8070506@rogers.com> Muhammad Imran wrote: > Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... > This was posted on a major job search site: > > Position: Web Developer > > Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); > WEBLOGIC (7 years); > ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); > LOADRUNNER (7 years); > HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); You forgot to mention "recent grad" and "entry level position". ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 01:58:46 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:58:46 -0600 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601201758p86baa49kb6ebe427e581733@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Applications almost always get tricky at a certain level of > complexity. What I want to know is how Ruby/Rails can let > you stray from the norm. This is an interesting thing to ask. I know that Rails is widely touted as being wonderful because it sets everything up for you and makes it easy to whip things up. However, I asked the right people the right questions and the long-term verdict is that in the long run when you really want to do "screwy things" you do end up implementing things on your own. I'm not a developer myself, so I can't really go into detail. However, the one thing I understand is that the very core of Ruby is dynamically rewritable by a programmer. So if they don't like the fundamental way "print" works, they can step inside and goof around. With this in mind, some really spectacularly hackish things can be done. This is, of course, where maintainability falls flat.. there's not much chance to pass your code off to someone else if you've done some fundamental fiddling. =) Rails is still a bunch of handy things on top of Ruby. It's still very possible to do everything in Ruby.. or to take only part of the Rails framework and use just that part. While lots of people will shout "rails is good!" it's just one of a number of Ruby toolkits that do that sort of job, albiet it's by far the most popular these days. Once that first book gets written, things change.. For serious discussion, you're probably best to start a theory-thread on the ruby-talk mailing list[1]. Or if you'd like to ask some locals you can either sign up to the Toronto Ruby Users Group mailing list[2] or drop by LinuxCaffe on Sunday Febuary 5th for the next TRUG meeting. All in all.. at the last meeting I sat down and watched the seaside videos. If it weren't for the childishly-awkward interface (thanks to squeak?) I would take it _very_ seriously. [1] http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/20020104.html [2] http://www.trug.ca/Mailing_list [3] http://linuxcaffe.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 02:10:25 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:10:25 -0600 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601201758p86baa49kb6ebe427e581733-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601201758p86baa49kb6ebe427e581733@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601201810p75693cf7uc40d69515960d938@mail.gmail.com> I just saw the other thread. =) On 1/20/06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Funny, I tried the online demo of Ruby that advertised > a 15 minute tutorial. But I only got through 3 minutes > of it before I got tired of it - I got the feeling there > was not going to be any "meat". > > Anyways, I'd be interested in a Ruby/Rails presentation > given by an expert. I've been hoping to drop in on one > of the TRUG meetings. Also, I'd be happy to show how you > how Seaside development works. Many people initially react > badly to Squeak, but with a Ruby background, the language > should not be the issue. Rather the image-based enviroment > is likely the impediment. (The garish default colours also > put off many people.) I think the problem is that the "easy demos" tend to get dumbed down at least in the beginning because the audience that is believed (wrongly) to enjoy them are more entry-level. I don't know that a TRUG regular would do justice to Rails in a presentation. Most of us have some passing familiarity, and only a handful have significant experience. Rails is pretty new to most of us. Bring it up on the mailing list and maybe someone will step forward. Often we get people who go to Rails because they have some background with developing for the web and they hear all kinds of good things about the time and brain saving nature of Ruby and Rails. Often we get newish programmers who are attracted to Rails before they even hear about Ruby. =) Some of us are there because of tools like Watir. It's a wierd bunch. Personally, seaside development would be wonderful to see. I so enjoyed what I had presented to me on the side that I did bunches of research. I even got to understand a little of the coding.. yes I see parallels between Ruby and Squeak. It's nice. But honestly, has anyone stalked and physically assaulted the people responsible for the UI choices? I can think of a dozen changes that if implemented would guarantee its easier use. I can understand wrapping it all in its own gui environment (which is totally cool).. but.. umm.. it abandons good old keyboard-only stuff.. and.. ugh, I'm at a loss for words. I mean, get the fonts right, quit with the bad rounded edges, yes do change the colours.. stop relying on the mouse, get rid of the stupid circles around the interface, put in some proper hotkey and key/mouse combinations. I mean.. come right on.. geeeeeze. I want to break out my rollerball and go find a monochrome monitor in a dumpster somewhere to go back and use it. Gah, I mean.. ome of the oldest.. most respectable.. coolest theories.. most child-drawing-with-a-crayon-looking.. ugh.. man. Phew. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 02:13:26 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:13:26 -0600 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990601201813x55be4635hb32072f26301969e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, John Vetterli wrote: > I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines > during the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any > difference. Nothing at home, nothing at the office. Phew! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 03:14:30 2006 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:14:30 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027099E50@jack.pcrepairs.com> If you're writing applications for a WebLogic application server, this is not actually an unrelated skill set. I have someone here that with the exception of using software other than Loadrunner for the testing matrix has this as part of her skill set... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Muhammad Imran Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:59 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Mandatory Skills :) Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This was posted on a major job search site: Position: Web Developer Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); WEBLOGIC (7 years); ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); LOADRUNNER (7 years); HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); Location: Toronto (Ontario, Canada) Duration: Negotiable Rate/Salary: Negotiable Start Date: ASAP -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 05:12:55 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:12:55 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: > > Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This > was posted on a major job search site: > > Position: Web Developer > > Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); > WEBLOGIC > (7 years); > ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); > LOADRUNNER > (7 years); > HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); Having seenan HR person (OK, OK, he was a headhunter) mangle Digital's networking protocol into DELNET (should have been DECNET, like Digital Equipment Company), I'm guessing it's possible that the HR person took a couple of lists like this: Unix, Java; Apache, WebLogic, ASP, COM, VB Scripting; IIS, Load Runner; seven years. HTML; ten years; Firewall experience, Linux, SQL. five years; And they decided to expand it or .. punch it up a little. Of course, one wonders why the person they want is supposed to have seven years of Unix but only five years of Linux. Is that what the exchange rate is on Unix to Linux these days? Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 05:42:17 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:42:17 -0500 Subject: Seaside/Squeak, Ruby In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601201758p86baa49kb6ebe427e581733-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181707qa1b4da3k6789a4a5bc8d3e83@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601192005l39972687saa114e68ee9533c4@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601200716n2251da4p33aa7f46b217d02a@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601201758p86baa49kb6ebe427e581733@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali wrote: > .... So if they don't like the > fundamental way "print" works, they can step inside and goof around. > With this in mind, some really spectacularly hackish things can be > done. Don't know about Ruby, but for all Smalltalks "everything is an object" is taken to the extreme. You can change any object, even the currently executing UI objects, which can blow you out of the water, if you're not careful. In the case of Squeak, the virtual machine (VM) is itself written in "Slang" (a subset of Smalltalk which maps easily to C). You generate the VM from your current image and compile your next generation of VM - much like bootstrapping an operating system. Another thing you can do is read another image file in and simulate its execution in your original image. Tons of neat things you can do. > All in all.. at the last meeting I sat down and watched the seaside > videos. If it weren't for the childishly-awkward interface (thanks to > squeak?) I would take it _very_ seriously. Cool that you guys had a look at Seaside. I gave a Seaside presentation at NewTLUG last Nov., BTW. As for the childish colours, it's a holdover from Squeak's emergence from Apple/Disney in 1995. One of the principals, Alan Kay (famous quote "The best way to predict the future is to invent it!", and winner of the computer science triple-crown: Draper Prize, Turing Award, and Kyoto Prize), was working at Disney at the time. You're not alone in disliking the garish colours, even Squeaker's dislike them. There are various "skins" you can apply to change that look, which are accessible via the preferences. Apart from that the development tools (class browsers, debugger, etc.) have not changed much since 1980, in the way you interact with them - they do the job well. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 10:45:27 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:45:27 +0200 (IST) Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601201518h488bbf2t80bb374f0af68c0e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601201518h488bbf2t80bb374f0af68c0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: >> Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This >> was posted on a major job search site: >> >> Position: Web Developer >> >> Mandatory Skills: UNIX (7 years); JAVA (7 years); APACHE (7 years); WEBLOGIC >> (7 years); >> ASP (7 years); COM (7 years); VB SCRIPT (7 years); IIS (7 years); LOADRUNNER >> (7 years); >> HTML (10 years); FIREWALL (5 years); LINUX (5 years); SQL (5 years); >> >> Location: Toronto (Ontario, Canada) >> Duration: Negotiable >> Rate/Salary: Negotiable >> Start Date: ASAP > > 88 years of combined experience... Ouch! > > I'd like to shake the hand of whoever get's that position. :-) Better don't. It could fall off. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 15:13:21 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 21 Jan 2006 10:13:21 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <43D17364.6050203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <43D17364.6050203@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > Tim Writer wrote: > > John Vetterli writes: > > > >> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Walter Dnes wrote: > >>> A chance to see how well your computers do (or don't) stand up to > >>> brownouts. > >>> The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > >>> voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > >>> A province-wide voltage reduction of three per cent will take place > >>> between 9:30 am and 11:30 am followed by a five per cent reduction from > >>> 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. > >>> See http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/media/md_newsitem.asp?newsID=2699 for > >>> further details. > >> I'm curious: did anybody experience any problems with their machines during > >> the brownout periods? As for myself, I didn't notice any difference. > > > > I was at a client's site and their private 10Mbps link to their colo went > > down around 10:00 a.m. Coincidence? > > > > Telecom companies have extensive power backup systems, that make it > unlikely for such a problem to occur in their facilities. Any sign of > failure within the client's office? I was working on something else and not sure where the failure was. Someone mentioned something about a Cisco router so perhaps the voltage drop was sufficient to reset a router within the office. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 16:56:45 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:56:45 -0700 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: > Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This > was posted on a major job search site: > That's pretty bad but that's not the worst I seen back in either 2002 or 2003 someone was asking for 15 years of Windows NT experience. Windows NT was first released in 1993. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 17:06:57 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:06:57 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? Message-ID: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be simultenously accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the office but I want similar capability on the cheap for home. Ideally the solution would be a drive pack similar to the external USB drives you can buy these days with room for 2 HDD so that I can do hardware or software RAID. If the total solution was < $1K excluding disks I could swing that. Any ideas? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 17:22:35 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:22:35 -0500 Subject: image sorting in Linux Message-ID: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> Hey all, I've collected a large number of images in my time on this planet - and not just pr0n either ;) Problem is, they came from all over the place (3.5" disks from friends, cameras, flatbed scanners, email, web pages, search engines, etc.) and consequently do not have a consistent naming scheme. So far it's over 25000 images, and I have no intentions of correcting them all by hand or script. Does there exist a relatively easy to use program that will sort the images by their graphical similarity and then automatically rename them? I'd be happy if they were named from '1.jpg' to '26382.jpg'. I'm not after anything complicated. I know gqview has a very handy sort by similarity function; it's great and I use it to eliminate dupes. But it doesn't do reorganization as near as I can tell. I suppose I could rip the similarity code out of the gqview source and hack something together, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel and do a half-assed job at it. Cheers, B p.s. On a unrelated note, thanks to all the folks who've sent in resumes to my employer. It's hard finding people and every bit of help counts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 17:28:09 2006 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:28:09 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D26F29.2000802@iprimus.ca> The sad part about it is that these are the clowns who are making a mess of the job market. This is by no means unique to IT, its even worse in finance where one regularly see " 10 years of SOX experience required", which is interesting since the SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) legislation became law iin 2002 ...:P Mark Lane wrote: >On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: > > >>Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This >>was posted on a major job search site: >> >> >> >That's pretty bad but that's not the worst I seen back in either 2002 >or 2003 someone was asking for 15 years of Windows NT experience. >Windows NT was first released in 1993. > > > > -- Clive DaSilva Tel : 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Mandrake Linux 10.1 Kernel 2.6.8.1.26mdk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 18:12:01 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:12:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <43D26DDB.10000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Byron Sonne wrote: > I know gqview has a very handy sort by similarity function; it's great > and I use it to eliminate dupes. But it doesn't do reorganization as > near as I can tell. With this volume of photos and features you need, F-Spot should be what you're looking for, but that needs a Mono stack to run... --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 18:17:24 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:17:24 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D26A31.8020609-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Saturday 21 January 2006 12:06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be > simultenously accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? > > I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the > office but I want similar capability on the cheap for home. > > Ideally the solution would be a drive pack similar to the external USB > drives you can buy these days with room for 2 HDD so that I can do > hardware or software RAID. > > If the total solution was < $1K excluding disks I could swing that. > > Any ideas? > I don't know if this would suit your particular application, but I have used these for clients, and they work extremely well in a Windows environment. Supposedly they are developing drivers for Linux & Mac http://www.netgear.com/products/details/SC101.php Available at TigerDirect http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1647989&sku=N100-2052 One other option could be iSCSI Enterprise Target project at sourceforge http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 18:22:28 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:22:28 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <200601211317.24598.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: What do you want from your "cheap" san? -Joseph- On 1/21/06, Jason Shein wrote: > On Saturday 21 January 2006 12:06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be > > simultenously accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? > > > > I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the > > office but I want similar capability on the cheap for home. > > > > Ideally the solution would be a drive pack similar to the external USB > > drives you can buy these days with room for 2 HDD so that I can do > > hardware or software RAID. > > > > If the total solution was < $1K excluding disks I could swing that. > > > > Any ideas? > > > I don't know if this would suit your particular application, but I have used > these for clients, and they work extremely well in a Windows environment. > Supposedly they are developing drivers for Linux & Mac > > http://www.netgear.com/products/details/SC101.php > > Available at TigerDirect > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1647989&sku=N100-2052 > > > One other option could be iSCSI Enterprise Target project at sourceforge > http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ > > -- > Jason Shein > Director of Networking, Operations and Systems > Detached Networks > jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice > ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile > http://www.detachednetworks.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 19:13:55 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:13:55 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> Joseph Kubik wrote: > What do you want from your "cheap" san? Hosting Xen virtual machines on it for a start and down the road the ability to test other HA services. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 19:27:13 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:27:13 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BCA@RIKER> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BCA@RIKER> Message-ID: <200601211427.13300.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 07:52, Jim Skehill wrote: > If you have a collection of great vinyl and a turntable table you may > want to consider using Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) to > convert the vinyl to mp3s. > > I have a collection of vintage R&B and DooWop records, a lot of which > I've never seen on CDs and I'm in the process of converting them to mp3s. > It's not hard at all. > > Jim. > > Another that I have played with a bit is gramofile. Not a lot of expertise is required. > -----Original Message----- > From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org] > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:51 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: free mp3 sites for classical ? > > > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE Linux Ver 10.0 Desktop KDE 3.5 KMail 1.9.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 20:47:55 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:47:55 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D287F3.2070208-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: In my opinion, it's not worth using a cheap SAN. I do tech support and the people that try to cut corners end up losing data. You might find some of the clustering packages and or distributed file systems are more usefull. my $.02 for the day. -Joseph- On 1/21/06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > What do you want from your "cheap" san? > > Hosting Xen virtual machines on it for a start and down the road the > ability to test other HA services. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 20:48:11 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:48:11 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: <43D26F29.2000802-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26F29.2000802@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <20060121204811.GA2939@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:28:09PM -0500, Clive DaSilva wrote: > The sad part about it is that these are the clowns who are making a > mess of the job market. This is by no means unique to IT, its even > worse in finance where one regularly see " 10 years of SOX experience > required", which is interesting since the SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) > legislation became law iin 2002 > > ...:P Usually, they want "insiders", or will use this as an excuse to pay less. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 21:02:31 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:02:31 -0500 Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <43D26DDB.10000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060121210231.GB2939@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:22:35PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey all, > > I've collected a large number of images in my time on this planet - and > not just pr0n either ;) > > Problem is, they came from all over the place (3.5" disks from friends, > cameras, flatbed scanners, email, web pages, search engines, etc.) and > consequently do not have a consistent naming scheme. So far it's over > 25000 images, and I have no intentions of correcting them all by hand or > script. > > Does there exist a relatively easy to use program that will sort the > images by their graphical similarity and then automatically rename them? > I'd be happy if they were named from '1.jpg' to '26382.jpg'. I'm not > after anything complicated. Renaming them is easy. count=1 for i in *.jpg; do mv $i /tmp/$((count++)).jpg done mv /tmp/*.jpg . But, how do you compare 2 JPG's? > > I know gqview has a very handy sort by similarity function; it's great > and I use it to eliminate dupes. But it doesn't do reorganization as > near as I can tell. > > I suppose I could rip the similarity code out of the gqview source and > hack something together, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel and do a > half-assed job at it. > > Cheers, > B > > p.s. On a unrelated note, thanks to all the folks who've sent in resumes > to my employer. It's hard finding people and every bit of help counts. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 23:31:47 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:31:47 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> Joseph Kubik wrote: > In my opinion, it's not worth using a cheap SAN. I do tech support and > the people that try to cut corners end up losing data. I made a mistake combining the words cheap and SAN, agreed they do not belong in the same sentence. What I am after is a hardware solution to share disks at the block device level, a hardware solution that will not cost me arms and legs. I'd like to avoid getting into software solutions if possible (network block device for example). > You might find some of the clustering packages and or distributed file > systems are more usefull. More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless without them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 21 23:38:26 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:38:26 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <200601211317.24598.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <43D2C5F2.9070204@georgetown.wehave.net> Jason Shein wrote: > I don't know if this would suit your particular application, but I have used > these for clients, and they work extremely well in a Windows environment. > Supposedly they are developing drivers for Linux & Mac > > http://www.netgear.com/products/details/SC101.php This looks promising but without Linux drivers it doesn't help me, still thanks for the pointer. > One other option could be iSCSI Enterprise Target project at sourceforge > http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ Cool. Might be something I'll look at down the road, for now I wanted the storage side to be a little more plug and play though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 00:16:46 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:16:46 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <43D17364.6050203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43D2CEEE.30205@rogers.com> Tim Writer wrote: > James Knott writes: >>> I was at a client's site and their private 10Mbps link to their colo went >>> down around 10:00 a.m. Coincidence? >>> >> Telecom companies have extensive power backup systems, that make it >> unlikely for such a problem to occur in their facilities. Any sign of >> failure within the client's office? > > I was working on something else and not sure where the failure was. Someone > mentioned something about a Cisco router so perhaps the voltage drop was > sufficient to reset a router within the office. > Well, any critical systems should be running from UPS or batteries. How important is your network? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 00:21:06 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:21:06 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D2CFF2.9040706@rogers.com> Mark Lane wrote: > On 1/20/06, Muhammad Imran wrote: >> Sorry, this is somewhat offtopic... but I found it really amusing... This >> was posted on a major job search site: >> > That's pretty bad but that's not the worst I seen back in either 2002 > or 2003 someone was asking for 15 years of Windows NT experience. > Windows NT was first released in 1993. And of course, if you don't have those 15 years, the clueless HR people will toss your application. ;-) I have also seen similar. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 02:12:31 2006 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:12:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060122021231.8167.qmail@web60118.mail.yahoo.com> the problem is easy; you step out of the car, give the keys to your friend, tell him to drive the old lady and you stay with the woman/man of your dreams. (You may want to make sure you have bus fare or ask your friend) After several months of job hunting and interviews I must be some kind of expert ;-) And for those worrying, yes, I finally got a good IT job - actually one and a half, one of them with a company that rhymes with "doodle" :-) Fernando --- Alex Beamish wrote: > On 1/12/06, Indy Singh wrote: > > > > > > You are driving along in your car on a wild, > stormy night. You pass by a > > bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the > bus: > > > > 1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to > die. > > 2. An old friend who once saved your life. > > 3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been > dreaming about. > > > > Which one would you choose to offer a ride to, > knowing that there could > > only be one passenger in your car. > > > > Think before you continue reading. This is a > moral/ethical dilemma that > > was once actually used as part of a job > application. > > > Interesting question .. obviously, I don't think far > enough outside the box. > > I imagined stoppping, helping the old lady into the > car, saying hello to my > old friend and asking the young lady for her phone > number in case the bus > has come by the time I come back to pick her up. > > That's a cute question, but it's tough to imagine > using a brain teaser in an > interview situation unless you were trying to figure > out if the candidate in > question was really quite smart (but having a bad > day) or a dolt (but making > a lot of good guesses). > > Alex > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 02:16:35 2006 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <43CEE509.3040709-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43CEE509.3040709@istop.com> Message-ID: <20060122021635.39008.qmail@web60117.mail.yahoo.com> I wonder how my cell > phone is build that it > can detect so weak radio signal from another phone > in a remote place of > the city. my fellow physicist, I think your cell phone doesn't detect the signal from another cell phone. It connects to the transmission tower in charge of your area ("cell") and this in turn will connect to the tower in charge of the other phone's area. Fernando --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 03:17:20 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:17:20 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D2C463.1040308-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 06:31:47PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > >You might find some of the clustering packages and or distributed file > >systems are more usefull. > > More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless > without them. How is SAN different from just a file server? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 03:57:40 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:57:40 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <20060122031720.GA466-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43D302B4.4010308@georgetown.wehave.net> William Park wrote: >>More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless >>without them. > > > How is SAN different from just a file server? Main difference is how a client system accesses the disks * a file server serves filesystems over the network, typically using NFS or SMB protocol * a SAN serves block devices, typically over fibre channel A client system mounting SAN disks can partition up those disks and format them however it sees fit, just like local disks effectively. The advantage of SANs are mostly from a data management perspective (backup, failover, redundancy, etc.). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 05:21:04 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:21:04 -0500 Subject: [OT] Google Earth Message-ID: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> Hello I have been wondering what other people think of Google's recent desktop application, called "Google Earth" (only runs on Macs and Windoze). The free service is like Google Maps, except that it is more interactive, and it allows you to freely make contributions and comments on your favourite places, and share them with others in appropriate places on the map. I followed someone's "tour" of the baseball diamonds of the American and National Leagues done in the order of a "Travelling salesman" algorithm --- a kind of "all- pairs-shortest-paths" problem. I notice that this somewhat fails in that there are some places which have a duplication (or sometimes more than a duplication) of efforts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 06:04:56 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 01:04:56 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D302B4.4010308-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> <43D302B4.4010308@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20060122060456.GA7103@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 10:57:40PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > William Park wrote: > > >>More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless > >>without them. > > > > > >How is SAN different from just a file server? > > Main difference is how a client system accesses the disks > > * a file server serves filesystems over the network, typically using NFS > or SMB protocol > * a SAN serves block devices, typically over fibre channel > > A client system mounting SAN disks can partition up those disks and > format them however it sees fit, just like local disks effectively. - Is that what Network Block Devices supposed to do? - Looking at kernel options, I also see 'ATA over Ethernet' option Not sure how you would use them, though. > > The advantage of SANs are mostly from a data management perspective > (backup, failover, redundancy, etc.). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 06:51:24 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 01:51:24 -0500 Subject: Video (.mpg/.avi) to iPod (.mp4) converter In-Reply-To: <20060108220429.GA3125-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060108220429.GA3125@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060122065124.GA7254@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 05:04:29PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > I got 30GB iPod for Christmas. I would like to try out its video > capability. iPod plays the following formats: > > * H.264 > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > Video: Up to 768 kbits/sec, 320 x 240, 30 frames per > second (fps), Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3. > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, and stereo audio. > > * MPEG-4 > File formats: .m4v, .mp4, and .mov > Video: Up to 2.5 Mbits/sec, 480 x 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile. > Audio: AAC-LC up to 160 kbits/sec, 48 Khz, stereo audio. > > Does anyone know Linux software which can convert a normal video (.mpg, > .avi) to above "iPod" format? Thanks to all posters. After trial and errors, I found the following works on my iPod: ffmpeg -i x.mpg \ -vcodec mpeg4 -s 320x240 -b 768 \ -acodec aac -ab 128 \ -f mov x.mov Also, '-vcodec xvid' works as well, but I went with Apple's own spec of 'mpeg4'. I couldn't get 'h264' codec to work. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 06:48:06 2006 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 01:48:06 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060120050352.GU20480-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <22318ee50601212248s37f1c357kf7d9f6d08dbdf818@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Rick Delaney wrote: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:34:00PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I > > just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its > > IP address? > > What happened when you tried it? It will work fine without the CD. > There's no need to to run the CD to configure the router. As was already said, just point your browser at 192.168.1.1 and log in as admin:admin. As an aside, I bought a number of these routers at Staples (they were on special) and reflashed them with OpenWRT http://openwrt.org (made one of the sales guys check the serial numbers on all their inventory to make sure they're v4 and not v5). It is possible to reflash the router with White Russian RC4 through the Linksys web interface without spending time on any of the hacks to enable boot_wait and TFTP (at least on the v4). //mts -- "Playing safe is only playing." Fortune Cookie from Simon's Wok -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 07:55:19 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 02:55:19 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <20060122060456.GA7103-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> <43D302B4.4010308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122060456.GA7103@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: The high end SANs provide for clustering. One LUN will be made accessible to multiple hosts (who have to handle their own atomic writes). If anyone knows more about the NBD stuff I'm interested. -Joseph- On 1/22/06, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 10:57:40PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > William Park wrote: > > > > >>More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless > > >>without them. > > > > > > > > >How is SAN different from just a file server? > > > > Main difference is how a client system accesses the disks > > > > * a file server serves filesystems over the network, typically using NFS > > or SMB protocol > > * a SAN serves block devices, typically over fibre channel > > > > A client system mounting SAN disks can partition up those disks and > > format them however it sees fit, just like local disks effectively. > > - Is that what Network Block Devices supposed to do? > - Looking at kernel options, I also see 'ATA over Ethernet' option > Not sure how you would use them, though. > > > > > The advantage of SANs are mostly from a data management perspective > > (backup, failover, redundancy, etc.). > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 08:55:21 2006 From: shiwan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Vlad Slavoaca) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 03:55:21 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> <43D302B4.4010308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122060456.GA7103@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Hmm. Where to begin... For the purposes of keeping this kind of short, I'll only cover FC-AL2 stuff, as that's the most prevalent today. A Fibre Channel setup will provide the following, with more items being available as the size of the setup grows: * 2Gbps full-duplex link. (Slower than U320 SCSI, but higher I/O.) * Multihoming to different arrays, through multiport HBAs or multiple HBAs. * Having multiple systems access the same array (think MS SQL cluster, where the DB resides on a shared medium between the servers, so that they can fail over statefully; a GFS (global file system) is required). * Hardware RAID on the disk shelf(ves). * Multiple redundant links. * Switched FC infrastructure (the theoretical maximum nodes is in the millions) * Custom redundancy options from disk-level to shelf-level. * Custom provisioning and backup (i.e. you can back up the whole system at the disk level, instead of the OS or file-level). * Long-haul transport (i.e. LZ-class extended long-haul MiniGBIC would handle up to 120km of SMF (single mode fiber)) - think having your physical storage in another datacentre. * Storage virtualization and Zoning (you slice and dice out bits of a large pool of disks into custom sizes, and then, basically, VLAN the array). * IP and ATM transport over FC as the physical medium (think having a dual-port HBA and using one port for storage data, and the other for IP data). So with a small setup, you'd end up Direct Attaching with a 2Gbit HBA, so you'd get up to 2Gbps full-duplex R/W. (Of course, with much better I/O than anything else.) Unless it was a dual-headed HBA, you wouldn't get redundancy. With a large setup, you'd have multiple disk shelves with full redundancy; multiple FC switches with redundancy; every system multihomed into the switched infrastructure for redundancy; possibly running IP transport on it as well, for private high-throughput networking. Then you'd have something like a farm of servers booting off the SAN and running VMware ESX Server, with the VMs saved completely on the SAN (but using VMware's snapshotting technology to do full-system backups, including the RAM state, to SAN). You could instantly provision new VMs by mirroring the disk image on SAN. Also, since multiple systems have simultaneous access to the same storage pool(s), you can migrate /running/ VMs between physical servers, thanks to VirtualCenter. I hope that's covered most things; I didn't intend to sound so much like a consultant - those are my typical case studies when explaining this technology. As a side note, about three years ago I ended up building a small FC setup on under $500. It had about 80GB in three disks, each with a Tcard (tester card - converts SCA2 to 2x shielded DB9 and Molex - or two UTP/STC RJ45 jacks), shielded DB9 cabling between the disks, DB9 to HSSDC cabling into a 12-port managed FC HUB that used HSSDC and SC MMC GBICs, and then about 50 metres of fiber to my workstation. Everything ran at 1Gbps full-duplex, although HSSDC cabling can do 2Gbps full-duplex. Then there's InfiniBand, and it's 2.5Gbps, 10Gbps, and 40Gbps goodness... including having a 1U IB switch having a 480Gbps switching fabric. Oh, and FC to iSCSI bridges. Cheers, --Vlad On 1/22/06, Joseph Kubik wrote: > The high end SANs provide for clustering. One LUN will be made > accessible to multiple hosts (who have to handle their own atomic > writes). > > If anyone knows more about the NBD stuff I'm interested. > -Joseph- > > On 1/22/06, William Park wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 10:57:40PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > > William Park wrote: > > > > > > >>More useful? They are essential, my shared disk (SAN or not) is useless > > > >>without them. > > > > > > > > > > > >How is SAN different from just a file server? > > > > > > Main difference is how a client system accesses the disks > > > > > > * a file server serves filesystems over the network, typically using NFS > > > or SMB protocol > > > * a SAN serves block devices, typically over fibre channel > > > > > > A client system mounting SAN disks can partition up those disks and > > > format them however it sees fit, just like local disks effectively. > > > > - Is that what Network Block Devices supposed to do? > > - Looking at kernel options, I also see 'ATA over Ethernet' option > > Not sure how you would use them, though. > > > > > > > > The advantage of SANs are mostly from a data management perspective > > > (backup, failover, redundancy, etc.). > > > > -- > > William Park , Toronto, Canada > > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- end -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 13:51:20 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank (Erebus)) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:51:20 +0000 Subject: [OT] Google Earth - Linux Version in the works In-Reply-To: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> References: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> Message-ID: <43D38DD8.4070207@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: >Hello > >I have been wondering what other people think of Google's recent desktop >application, called "Google Earth" (only runs on Macs and Windoze). The free >service is like Google Maps, except that it is more interactive, and it allows >you to freely make contributions and comments on your favourite places, and share >them with others in appropriate places on the map. > > > Paul: According to reliable sources Google is working on a Linux version that is supposed to be out sometime in Q1 or Q2 of this year. Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 13:53:22 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:53:22 -0500 Subject: [OT] Google Earth In-Reply-To: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> References: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> Message-ID: <43D38E52.1030706@sympatico.ca> Paul King wrote: > > I have been wondering what other people think of Google's recent desktop > application, called "Google Earth" (only runs on Macs and Windoze). I use it for work a lot. It gives a rough idea of the terrain and ground cover for initial project siting. Being able to export and share locations is very useful to me. Unfortunately, the Mac version doesn't seem to like GPX files (a common XML GPS format). It crashes on trying to load them. I much prefer the Mac version to the PC one, though. My company also uses Google Earth Pro for satellite imagery for GIS. It gives a lot for the price. There is a lot you can do with Google Maps and any browser, though (like the entirely wonderful ). Google Earth adds a few pretty features. > I notice that this somewhat fails in that there are some places which have a > duplication ... Yes, there are at least two TTC station location data sets. One is geocoded from published street addresses, the other (which I prepared) is from a georeferenced TTC route map. Neither is perfect. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 17:47:32 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:47:32 -0500 Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <43D26DDB.10000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060122124732.72f57d16.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:22:35 -0500 Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey all, > > I've collected a large number of images in my time on this planet - and > not just pr0n either ;) > > Problem is, they came from all over the place (3.5" disks from friends, > cameras, flatbed scanners, email, web pages, search engines, etc.) and > consequently do not have a consistent naming scheme. So far it's over > 25000 images, and I have no intentions of correcting them all by hand or > script. > > Does there exist a relatively easy to use program that will sort the > images by their graphical similarity and then automatically rename them? > I'd be happy if they were named from '1.jpg' to '26382.jpg'. I'm not > after anything complicated. Byron, Suggestion... Both Nautilus and Konqueror are able to display files using postage stamps. This allows you to survey a folder full of photos and see the photos. You can cut and paste your photos without affecting the last-modified date attached to the file. I try very hard not to modify my camera's date stamp. I store my new photos in directories named by date and function... Photos/2006 Jan 22 TLUG drunken bash - blackmail When I burn my Photos directory to CD, I write a name on the CD, and I catalogue the CD... $ cd PhotoDatabase $ ls -lR /cdrom > 20060122 My CDs are stored by the date I burned the CD. You can name your CDs after your sister's gerbils. As long as the file has the same name as the code you wrote on your CD, you are fine. Now, when I suspect I have an interesting picture, I use grep and keywords. $ cd PhotoDatabase $ grep -ri tlug . $ grep -ri drunk . $ grep -ri blackmail . The -r switch allows me to maintain subdirectories of interesting photos. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 21:24:06 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 16:24:06 -0500 Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <20060122124732.72f57d16.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> <20060122124732.72f57d16.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <43D3F7F6.6010602@sympatico.ca> Byron Sonne wrote: > >Does there exist a relatively easy to use program that will sort the >images by their graphical similarity and then automatically rename them? Randal Schwartz wrote a column on one possible way of doing this a couple of years back: cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 22 23:08:19 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:08:19 -0500 Subject: [OT] Lowcost cellphone plans Message-ID: <20060122230819.GD6148@waltdnes.org> I'm somewhat of a luddite with respect to cellphones, but even I admit that there are occasions when they come in handy. I don't expect to use it that often. I'm looking for POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service), so I'm willing to do without tons of "features". In *MY* case, the best plans are the low monthly fee with a high air-minute fee model. The Virgin Mobile "Minute 2 Minute" plan as described at... http://www.virginmobile.ca/site/en/pricesAndFeatures/html/pricesAndFeatures.html best suits my needs, of the ones I've Googled so far. Is there a web site somewhere that compares plans? Any better plans anywhere? At the risk of drifting onto topic for this list, are there any cellphones *WITHOUT* an OS? I don't care whether it's Palm or Symbian or Windows or Linux, any OS will present some vulnerabilities. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 00:46:00 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Jan 2006 19:46:00 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <43D2CEEE.30205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <43D17364.6050203@rogers.com> <43D2CEEE.30205@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > Tim Writer wrote: > > James Knott writes: > > >>> I was at a client's site and their private 10Mbps link to their colo went > >>> down around 10:00 a.m. Coincidence? > >>> > >> Telecom companies have extensive power backup systems, that make it > >> unlikely for such a problem to occur in their facilities. Any sign of > >> failure within the client's office? > > > > I was working on something else and not sure where the failure was. Someone > > mentioned something about a Cisco router so perhaps the voltage drop was > > sufficient to reset a router within the office. > > > > Well, any critical systems should be running from UPS or batteries. How > important is your network? Look, the original poster asked if anyone had noticed any problems resulting from the brownouts. I responded, saying that I did notice a problem while at a clients site. For obvious reasons, I didn't name the client or say anything about the nature of the work. The fact is, I don't manage that clients network and it's not my place to comment on its reliability. Got it? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 01:11:52 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:11:52 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <20060122060456.GA7103-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <200601211317.24598.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <43D287F3.2070208@georgetown.wehave.net> <43D2C463.1040308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122031720.GA466@node1.opengeometry.net> <43D302B4.4010308@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060122060456.GA7103@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43D42D58.7000603@georgetown.wehave.net> William Park wrote: >>* a SAN serves block devices, typically over fibre channel >> >>A client system mounting SAN disks can partition up those disks and >>format them however it sees fit, just like local disks effectively. > > > - Is that what Network Block Devices supposed to do? Yes. I had hoped to avoid needing a server for putting my disks on the network, but if it comes down to that I will. I have not tried NBD but since SuSE touts it as an HA feature for SLES 9, I do have some confidence that it would work as advertised. > - Looking at kernel options, I also see 'ATA over Ethernet' option > Not sure how you would use them, though. AoE is interesting, thanks for the reminder. Basically AoE is a way of accessing disks over LAN, ATA commands are issued over ethernet (no IP layer involved). I only see Coraid shipping AoE, would be nice to see some other vendors. Coraid does sell a single storage blade for $295 (see http://www.coraid.com/purchase.htm). I expect that it supports only a single disk, it's also (as they freely admit) not a nicely packaged product. I would like a little external chassis with room for 2 disks, RAID support and exported to LAN with AoE. I'll talk to Coraid and see if they have anything up their sleeve, I think one of these blades might be nice lying on my desk regardless ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 04:17:09 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Jan 2006 23:17:09 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D26A31.8020609-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: Fraser Campbell writes: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be simultenously > accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? > > > I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the office but > I want similar capability on the cheap for home. > > > Ideally the solution would be a drive pack similar to the external USB drives > you can buy these days with room for 2 HDD so that I can do hardware or > software RAID. Any reason you can't use shared SCSI, i.e. a SCSI disk or disks connected to two systems? The only thing unusual about this kind of setup is the SCSI ID for the the second HBA is non-standard, i.e. something other than 7. Of course, you have to make sure that the two systems don't mount the same file system at the same time (or use a share file system like GFS) but that's true for a SAN, no? > If the total solution was < $1K excluding disks I could swing that. Given the price of SCSI disks, that could be tough, depending on storage requirements. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 15:14:49 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:14:49 -0600 Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <43D3F7F6.6010602-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> <20060122124732.72f57d16.hgibson@eol.ca> <43D3F7F6.6010602@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601230714k65208e4due65cff6bbbed62cc@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Randal Schwartz wrote a column on one possible way of doing this a > couple of years back: "This text is copyright by InfoStrada Communications, Inc., and is used with their permission. Further distribution or use is not permitted." But it says that I can't use it! *runs away giggling* -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 16:31:21 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:31:21 -0600 Subject: OT: fake election e-mail Message-ID: <43D504D9.8030903@zee4.com> Just a heads-up, I caught this yesterday, basically there's a e-mail going around saying that you can vote on two days: "...Elections Canada was warning them not to be led astray by a fraudulent e-mail about the election that has been circulating...Elections Canada said the bogus e-mail bears the agency's logo and the name of Jean-Pierre Kingsley, chief electoral officer, and incorrectly states that people can vote on two days ? Monday and Tuesday." From: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2006/01/23/fake-votes060123.html Zoltan -- www.YYZTech.ca Toronto talks tech. www.Dine.TO Toronto's premier restaurant search engine. Get Thunderbird -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 16:02:59 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:02:59 -0500 Subject: Vote Today!!! Re:OT: fake election e-mail Message-ID: On 1/23/06, Zoltan wrote: > Just a heads-up, I caught this yesterday, basically there's a e-mail > going around saying that you can vote on two days: > > "...Elections Canada was warning them not to be led astray by a > fraudulent e-mail about the election that has been > circulating...Elections Canada said the bogus e-mail bears the agency's > logo and the name of Jean-Pierre Kingsley, chief electoral officer, and > incorrectly states that people can vote on two days ? Monday and Tuesday." I suppose the question arises as to whodunnit, whether it be tricky Liberals trying to convince naive Conservatives to not bother voting today, or the converse... At any rate, be sure to vote today, if you haven't already... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 16:08:49 2006 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:08:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vote Today!!! Re:OT: fake election e-mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/23/06, Zoltan wrote: >> Just a heads-up, I caught this yesterday, basically there's a e-mail >> going around saying that you can vote on two days: >> "...Elections Canada was warning them not to be led astray by a >> fraudulent e-mail about the election that has been >> circulating...Elections Canada said the bogus e-mail bears the agency's >> logo and the name of Jean-Pierre Kingsley, chief electoral officer, and >> incorrectly states that people can vote on two days ? Monday and Tuesday." > I suppose the question arises as to whodunnit, whether it be tricky > Liberals trying to convince naive Conservatives to not bother voting > today, or the converse... > At any rate, be sure to vote today, if you haven't already... I wonder if this email actually exists. Has anybody here received it? There was a similar story in the U.S. for their last presidential election, so I suspect this is an urban legend in the making. http://www.snopes.com/politics/humor/voting.asp JV From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 19:25:21 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:25:21 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43CF9FD5.8050504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <20060113221017.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43CF9FD5.8050504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200601231425.21784.mervc@eol.ca> On Thursday 19 January 2006 09:19, PW Armstrong wrote: > Lenn, thx for your help and tips. And when I get the time, will > definitely upgrade to a current distro. Any recommendation? I know, > that's a loaded question, no need to answer. Thx. > > -Peter > He always suggests Debian, haven't you noticed? -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE Linux Ver 10.0 Desktop KDE 3.5 KMail 1.9.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 20:26:27 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:26:27 -0500 Subject: Vote Today!!! Re:OT: fake election e-mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/23/06, John Vetterli wrote: > I wonder if this email actually exists. Has anybody here received > it? There was a similar story in the U.S. for their last presidential > election, so I suspect this is an urban legend in the making. If it doesn't exist, then CTV News got "taken" by the claim, as I heard about it on evening news... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 20:29:29 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:29:29 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060120050352.GU20480-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060123202928.GA7273@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 12:03:52AM -0500, Rick Delaney wrote: >On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:34:00PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I >> just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its >> IP address? > >What happened when you tried it? It will work fine without the CD. I never did try it before checking with the list - the sticker over the ports telling me not to spooked me. As suggested, the router came right up, and I was able to configure it... to a point. I was hoping to use WPA to get the appearance of security. I followed the directions here , but every time I turn on WPA on the router I am no longer able to access it. ifplugd doesn't seem to do anything with my laptop's PCMCIA card. If I take matters into my own hands like so: Pull and replace the wireless card # ifdown eth0 # iwconfig eth0 essid $ESSID # ifup eth0 I bring the card up, and it searches fruitlessly for an IP. Am I doing something wrong? Also, while I'm usually delighted to use the command line (I spend almost all my time in the console or terminal anyway) for finding and joining wireless networks I'd love a graphical tool. Does anyone know of a good one? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 21:44:18 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:44:18 +0200 (IST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? Message-ID: Imho there was nothing that anybody could invent (let alone patent) in 1990 that would cover any technology used in electronic messaging. At least the following precedents existed at the time (and were well known and in common use): - military and civilian teletype (telex) machines coupled to wireless radio links, forming networks for the purpose of sending, receiving, archiving and forwarding of messages. - BBS systems and data transmission systems widely used by military, law enforcement and radio amateurs, on all wavelengths, including sattelite based store/forward (Oscar ham radio sattelites among others). Same used both for online chatting, one to one or party mode, and store and forward, as well as for addressed messages. Same used to transfer images and other data (like software and sounds) coded into the protocol. - handheld and man-portable terminals for these activities, used mainly by law enforcement and also to a lesser extent by amateurs (due to cost). - most of the connections made as above were using packet switched data networks over the air. - data compression was used widely (at the level possible with 8 bit cpus) WHAT could one patent in 1990 that would not be covered by these precedents ?! Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 22:28:16 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:28:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Peter wrote: > WHAT could one patent in 1990 that would not be covered by these > precedents ?! A device for wireless messaging that fits in your pocket. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Seriously, these kind of details are what people are patenting... > Peter --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 22:57:47 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:57:47 -0500 Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060123225746.GA7603@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:44:18PM +0200, Peter wrote: > >Imho there was nothing that anybody could invent (let alone patent) in >1990 that would cover any technology used in electronic messaging. At >least the following precedents existed at the time (and were well >known and in common use): Two things - something existing as a precedent of a patent does not prevent the patent from being filed. Furthermore, a patent can be (and routinely is) granted without any implementation at all. There are patents based on technologies which do not yet exist. The patent system in the United States is famously broken, but most intellectual property regimes have been subverted to be legal mechanisms for the well-funded to destroy the less-well-funded in the business arena. That said, the RIM v. NTP suit is based on eight patents in NTP's vast patent portfolio. NTP buys the IP from foundering companies at cut-rate prices in order to sue those who potentially infringe - the best patent for a patent pirate such as this is vague one that *might* be applicable. Suing people is all that NTP does. Of the eight patents in the suit, five have been denied by the USPTO. The remaining patents are still being examined, but they all centre around issues that did, to some extent, exist in 1990. Radio transmission of text, handheld communication devices, text and speech devices all existed, or might exist in the future, and someone patented various aspects of their potential function. The suit itself does not revolve around patent infringement by RIM through specific elements of the Blackberry devices. It revolves around potential infringement of a mess of probably bogus patents which NTP holds, and the fact that these patents exist is being held like the sword of Damocles over their heads. That is why RIM was only too happy when it looked they would settle this issue once and for all for the measly price of $450M USD. The sticking point, which NTP objected to, was the "once and for all" part. Even if all of the patents named in the suit are denied, NTP can just go trawling through their patent record and use other patents to bring a similar suit. RIM is currently being sued by a similar patent pirate in the UK - and they will have to deal with suits like this in every IP regime where they hope to do business. The ideal outcome for any of these patent pirates is to be granted an injunction so that RIM cannot do business in the country of the suit (this nearly happened in the US) and that this will cause RIM to fold. Then the pirate can take RIM's IP in a bankruptcy settlement and license it - after all, there's proven demand. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 23:34:25 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:34:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: <20060123225746.GA7603-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060123225746.GA7603@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <50971.207.188.65.194.1138059265.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Two things - something existing as a precedent of a patent does not > prevent the patent from being filed. Unless it's been disclosed in the public domain. For example, if you have described something in the open literature, then someone else can't patent it. I went through that situation. I invented a computer system for controlling aerial cameras and wrote an article on it. My client subsequently advised me that someone in the US had subsequently filed a patent on in. I advised the USPTO that there was 'prior disclosure' and that was the end of the patent application. The client was concerned that they would have to pay royalties to the patent holder in the US, and of course I would have been locked out of that business. > Furthermore, a patent can be (and > routinely is) granted without any implementation at all. There are > patents based on technologies which do not yet exist. My understanding is that this requirement differs between countries. The US does not require a working model. In fact, people can and have patented anti-gravity machines (the so-called Dean Device of popular interest in my youth) in the US. However, I believe that other countries do require that the device be capable of working (ruling out perpetual motion machines, for example) and in some countries it is required that the invention be demonstrated as functional. I'll check this with a colleague who is a patent attorney. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 23 23:47:34 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 01:47:34 +0200 (IST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Peter wrote: > >> WHAT could one patent in 1990 that would not be covered by these >> precedents ?! > > A device for wireless messaging that fits in your pocket. I invoke Moore's law as a precedent. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 00:03:54 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:03:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: whois Message-ID: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> For the (web based) UI of our application, we'd like to display the Real Life (TM) details of an organisation based on an IP address. This is what the whois service is for. Unfortunately, what the whois server actually replies with is not specified by any RFC or other standard that I am aware of, and in practice the format is nearly free form. That would be OK if all we wanted to do was to show the first reply; but we need to follow the referrals to other whois servers holding information about suballocated blocks. Our problem is, then, that the format of these referrals also varies, and no existing software seems to cover all of them. As an example, try this with the whois client in debian (by md-k2GhghHVRtY at public.gmane.org): whois -h whois.arin.net 61.100.186.185 you'll see that it correctly handled the first referral (from whois.arin.net to whois.apnic.net) but missed the next which was buried in this snippet: remarks: This IP address space has been allocated to KRNIC. remarks: For more information, using KRNIC Whois Database remarks: whois -h whois.nic.or.kr Does anyone know of a general solution to this situation? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 00:33:48 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:33:48 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060123202928.GA7273-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> <20060123202928.GA7273@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I was hoping to use WPA to get the appearance of security. I followed > the directions here , but > every time I turn on WPA on the router I am no longer able to access it. > ifplugd doesn't seem to do anything with my laptop's PCMCIA card. I had a hard time with Shared and WPA on the WRT54G with IPW2200 (intel). I just ended up setting authentication to auto and it seems to work, with the below additions that is. > If I take matters into my own hands like so: > > Pull and replace the wireless card > # ifdown eth0 > # iwconfig eth0 essid $ESSID > # ifup eth0 > > I bring the card up, and it searches fruitlessly for an IP. Am I doing > something wrong? The missing part is wpasupplicant. You need to install and configure it (if you haven't already?) to use your home network. ifdown and ifup won't help if it is not running as they will only bring the card up or down in a wep or open state. It should run by default on startup. Which wireless card are you using? You'll need to specify different options in the /etc/default/wpasupplicant depending on your card. > Also, while I'm usually delighted to use the command line (I spend > almost all my time in the console or terminal anyway) for finding and > joining wireless networks I'd love a graphical tool. Does anyone know > of a good one? Thanks. I think I heard Network Manager will have WPA support in its next major release. I've heard wifi-radar works well for some. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 01:14:28 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:14:28 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <43D575EC.509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> <20060123202928.GA7273@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <43D575EC.509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060124011428.GA7890@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 07:33:48PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>I was hoping to use WPA to get the appearance of security. I followed >>the directions here , but >>every time I turn on WPA on the router I am no longer able to access it. >>ifplugd doesn't seem to do anything with my laptop's PCMCIA card. > >I had a hard time with Shared and WPA on the WRT54G with IPW2200 (intel). I >just ended up setting authentication to auto and it seems to work, with the >below additions that is. > >>If I take matters into my own hands like so: >> >>Pull and replace the wireless card >># ifdown eth0 >># iwconfig eth0 essid $ESSID >># ifup eth0 >> >>I bring the card up, and it searches fruitlessly for an IP. Am I doing >>something wrong? > >The missing part is wpasupplicant. You need to install and configure it (if >you haven't already?) to use your home network. ifdown and ifup won't help >if it is not running as they will only bring the card up or down in a wep >or open state. It should run by default on startup. Which wireless card are >you using? You'll need to specify different options in the >/etc/default/wpasupplicant depending on your card. I'm using an Asus WL-100, it's a Prism 2. I installed and configured wpasupplicant, and it seems to work, but I can't tell, because I can't connect to my AP :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 02:13:37 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Personally, I don't think its a bad idea that RIM got in trouble. Patents law are mainly supported by huge corporations and RIM is a good example of such a company. They hold some patents and likely lobby for patent friendly policy and I therefore don't feel pity for them. I think if large corporations keep getting really screwed by the IP crap, they may think twice about such lobbies. I think that is the only way we can have changes Thanks WIlliam On 23/01/06, Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Peter wrote: > > > >> WHAT could one patent in 1990 that would not be covered by these > >> precedents ?! > > > > A device for wireless messaging that fits in your pocket. > > I invoke Moore's law as a precedent. > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 02:23:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:23:46 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060124011428.GA7890-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060120050352.GU20480@localhost.localdomain> <20060123202928.GA7273@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <43D575EC.509@utoronto.ca> <20060124011428.GA7890@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <43D58FB2.9030105@utoronto.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> The missing part is wpasupplicant. You need to install and configure it (if >> you haven't already?) to use your home network. ifdown and ifup won't help >> if it is not running as they will only bring the card up or down in a wep >> or open state. It should run by default on startup. Which wireless card are >> you using? You'll need to specify different options in the >> /etc/default/wpasupplicant depending on your card. > > I'm using an Asus WL-100, it's a Prism 2. I installed and configured > wpasupplicant, and it seems to work, but I can't tell, because I can't > connect to my AP :-) Suppose you tried sniffing around a little with Kismet (if the card supports monitor mode that is)? What kind of output do you get when you run: wpa_supplicant -D hostap -i wlan0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -dd That's assuming of course that your wireless card is wlan0, which I think is correct for Prism cards. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 03:19:29 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:19:29 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf-yMxZYGpqpdJqlZmpRoQC2VmuhGz1hbfE@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> Message-ID: <43D59CC1.1060007@istop.com> The problem that "the format of these referrals also varies" is broader. Indeed, there is a need for some standards there. The replies from whois is a mess. Another place where standards are not sufficient is smtp protocol. I know what I am talking about though I would prefer not to explain why I know. It is simply madness to deal with return emails. Everyone is different, though the reason for rejection by remote server might have been the same. And the problem is even broader. There is a lot of data available on www but put there in HTML format. HTML is good for viewing in a browser but not for processing of the data. I know... Burne Lee, semantic web... yes, he spoke about that. I did too ;) zb. nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > For the (web based) UI of our application, we'd like to display the Real > Life (TM) details of an organisation based on an IP address. This is > what the whois service is for. Unfortunately, what the whois server > actually replies with is not specified by any RFC or other standard that > I am aware of, and in practice the format is nearly free form. That > would be OK if all we wanted to do was to show the first reply; but we > need to follow the referrals to other whois servers holding information > about suballocated blocks. Our problem is, then, that the format of > these referrals also varies, and no existing software seems to cover all > of them. > > As an example, try this with the whois client in debian (by > md-k2GhghHVRtY at public.gmane.org): > > whois -h whois.arin.net 61.100.186.185 > > you'll see that it correctly handled the first referral (from > whois.arin.net to whois.apnic.net) but missed the next which was buried > in this snippet: > > remarks: This IP address space has been allocated to KRNIC. > remarks: For more information, using KRNIC Whois Database > remarks: whois -h whois.nic.or.kr > > Does anyone know of a general solution to this situation? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 03:58:49 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:58:49 -0500 Subject: image sorting in Linux In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601230714k65208e4due65cff6bbbed62cc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26DDB.10000@rogers.com> <20060122124732.72f57d16.hgibson@eol.ca> <43D3F7F6.6010602@sympatico.ca> <1e55af990601230714k65208e4due65cff6bbbed62cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060123225849.627cb51e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:14:49 -0600 Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/22/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Randal Schwartz wrote a column on one possible way of doing this a > > couple of years back: > > "This text is copyright by InfoStrada Communications, Inc., and is > used with their permission. Further distribution or use is not > permitted." > > But it says that I can't use it! *runs away giggling* Well, darn it. I forgot to copyright my remarks and now I don't get to charge you all for all my incredible wisdom. :( -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 06:59:37 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:59:37 +0200 (IST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? (fwd) Message-ID: Imho there was nothing that anybody could invent (let alone patent) in 1990 that would cover any technology used in electronic messaging. At least the following precedents existed at the time (and were well known and in common use): - military and civilian teletype (telex) machines coupled to wireless radio links, forming networks for the purpose of sending, receiving, archiving and forwarding of messages. - BBS systems and data transmission systems widely used by military, law enforcement and radio amateurs, on all wavelengths, including sattelite based store/forward (Oscar ham radio sattelites among others). Same used both for online chatting, one to one or party mode, and store and forward, as well as for addressed messages. Same used to transfer images and other data (like software and sounds) coded into the protocol. - handheld and man-portable terminals for these activities, used mainly by law enforcement and also to a lesser extent by amateurs (due to cost). - most of the connections made as above were using packet switched data networks over the air. - data compression was used widely (at the level possible with 8 bit cpus) WHAT could one patent in 1990 that would not be covered by these precedents ?! Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 07:00:00 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:00:00 +0200 (IST) Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Personally, I don't think its a bad idea that RIM got in trouble. > Patents law are mainly supported by huge corporations and RIM is a > good example of such a company. They hold some patents and likely > lobby for patent friendly policy and I therefore don't feel pity for > them. > I think if large corporations keep getting really screwed by the IP > crap, they may think twice about such lobbies. I think that is the > only way we can have changes Hmm, good answer. I had not thought of that. Statistics show that the small inventors and companies lead in patent applications, but that they have a hard time making money out of them. That sort of throws a wrench into the works imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 07:54:48 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:54:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <43D59CC1.1060007-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <43D59CC1.1060007@istop.com> Message-ID: <87vewat60o.fsf@gmail.com> Zbigniew> And the problem is even broader. There is a lot of data Zbigniew> available on www but put there in HTML format. HTML is good Zbigniew> for viewing in a browser but not for processing of the data. I Zbigniew> know... Burne Lee, semantic web... yes, he spoke about that. I Zbigniew> did too ;) You mean Berner-Lee. I think. And that's what XML is supposed to solve. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 12:11:57 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:11:57 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO"] Message-ID: <43D6198D.7080803@pppoe.ca> Herb Richter wrote: > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held > Tues Oct 25th., at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. > > >Date: Tues Oct 25th. >Time: 7 - 10pm > >Presenter: Sacha Chua > Sacha, a University of Toronto graduate student studying > Human Computer Interaction, under Mechanical and > Industrial Engineering, has written a Linux Journal > article in the October issue on "Taming the TODO". > see: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8378 > - I personally like the part about the "Hipster PDA" :) > The article started out as a presentation for the Tokyo > Linux Users Group (the other TLUG?? [ed]) > >Topic: Don't like mainstream personal information managers such > as Evolution or KOrganizer? Looking for a way to keep > track of all the things you need to do? Sacha will talk > about a number of alternative PIMs and will share some > strategies to help you tame their TODOs. > >Location: Room S1206 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca at York > Building number 40 on the map: > http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf > The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the > south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. > >Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please > see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~scs/seneca-directions.html > note: parking lot "HH" is no longer available to visitors > >Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). > Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking > garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for > visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Herb Richter > Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario > http://PartsAndService.com > http://PartsAndService > > Can someone please confirm that the 'Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" is on at 7:00pm tonight, Jan 24 at Room S1206 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ)? The above refers to Tues Oct 25th. I do not seem to have recovered from the election results :-) Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 13:56:06 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:56:06 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <43D59CC1.1060007-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <43D59CC1.1060007@istop.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol writes: > Another place where standards are not sufficient is smtp protocol. I know > what I am talking about though I would prefer not to explain why I know. It > is simply madness to deal with return emails. Everyone is different, though > the reason for rejection by remote server might have been the same. If your MTA supports it, VERP is great for tracking bounces: http://cr.yp.to/proto/verp.txt HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 14:06:21 2006 From: pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:06:21 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D26A31.8020609-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <43D6345D.8030708@rogers.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the > office but I want similar capability on the cheap for home. This might be of interest http://www.freenas.org/ paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 14:37:16 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:37:16 -0500 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO"] In-Reply-To: <43D6198D.7080803-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <43D6198D.7080803@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <43D63B9C.3010008@buynet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Meng Cheah wrote: > Herb Richter wrote: > >> This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held >> Tues Oct 25th., at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. [cut] >> > Can someone please confirm that the 'Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal > Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" is on at 7:00pm tonight, Jan 24 > at Room S1206 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ)? > > The above refers to Tues Oct 25th. ...just checking if anyone was paying attention ...yes it is this evening Jan 24 Herb Richter... > I do not seem to have recovered from the election results :-) > > Meng Cheah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD1jucU+pQaeEFGGARArtqAJwLqd6T7ppK8aoR8nSO2FXObfhAEACeLubb wF2o9j/eSx08Ut265ouTz9M= =3IzZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 14:37:59 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:37:59 -0500 Subject: OT what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > >> Personally, I don't think its a bad idea that RIM got in trouble. >> Patents law are mainly supported by huge corporations and RIM is a >> good example of such a company. They hold some patents and likely >> lobby for patent friendly policy and I therefore don't feel pity for >> them. >> I think if large corporations keep getting really screwed by the IP >> crap, they may think twice about such lobbies. I think that is the >> only way we can have changes They might also think twice about bothering with buying up smaller companies with a good product/patents and consequently not see a good idea through to a final product. Regardless of how anyone would like things to be, ATM, capital is a necessary part of any good product and its development, and without a large company to throw its weight behind a product/patent, I wonder how much *less* innovation there would be. Why bother with the trouble of making a good product when you can bet that someday your company will be sued by wretches like NTP? That being said, I in no way agree that this *should* be the case -- only that it is. > Hmm, good answer. I had not thought of that. Statistics show that the > small inventors and companies lead in patent applications, but that they > have a hard time making money out of them. That sort of throws a wrench > into the works imho. > > Peter Again pointing out the current need for big business and its capital to get a really good product off the ground (and lots of mediocre ones of course!). Granted RIM may not have been all that large in the beginning, but I'm sure that for every successful company like RIM out there, there were 10 other companies that failed miserably. I'm sure there was much venture capital involvedin getting RIM up and running as well. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 14:41:03 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:41:03 -0500 Subject: Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal Information Managers - "Taming the TODO"] In-Reply-To: <43D63B9C.3010008-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D6198D.7080803@pppoe.ca> <43D63B9C.3010008@buynet.com> Message-ID: <43D63C7F.1010207@pppoe.ca> Herb Richter wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Meng Cheah wrote: > > >>Herb Richter wrote: >> >> >> >>> This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held >>> Tues Oct 25th., at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. >>> >>> >[cut] > > >>Can someone please confirm that the 'Jan 24th. NewTLUG meeting: Personal >>Information Managers - "Taming the TODO" is on at 7:00pm tonight, Jan 24 >>at Room S1206 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ)? >> >>The above refers to Tues Oct 25th. >> >> > >...just checking if anyone was paying attention > >...yes it is this evening Jan 24 > >Herb Richter... > > Thanks, Herb. Confirmed at 7:00pm, Room S1206 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) ? Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 15:18:24 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:18:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <87vewat60o.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <43D59CC1.1060007@istop.com> <87vewat60o.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Zbigniew> And the problem is even broader. There is a lot of data > Zbigniew> available on www but put there in HTML format. HTML is good > Zbigniew> for viewing in a browser but not for processing of the data. I > Zbigniew> know... Burne Lee, semantic web... yes, he spoke about that. I > Zbigniew> did too ;) > > You mean Berner-Lee. I think. Actually I think everyone means Berners-Lee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berners-Lee Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 16:10:58 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:10:58 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? Message-ID: I would like to know if this is possible: 1) Installed distro on hard drive (size around 1.5GB). 2) Format a 2GB USB 2.0 FLASH drive with ReiserFS or ext3. 3) Completely move the hard drive installed distro to the USB FLASH drive (which would be bootable). I've seen instructions for moving installed OS to another partition, so I assume the same instructions would work. Has anyone ever done this? Will it work? I'm hoping to create a "customized" distro install that I can take and plug into different machines. I'd like to have a real OS as opposed to a live cd so that I can still update and upgrade. Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? Any help would be appreciated as always. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 16:16:32 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:16:32 -0500 Subject: what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: <20060123225746.GA7603-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060123225746.GA7603@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <43D652E0.6010905@telly.org> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >Two things - something existing as a precedent of a patent does not >prevent the patent from being filed. > True, but existence of prior art does make it possible to invalidate the patent. >Furthermore, a patent can be (and routinely is) granted without any implementation at all. There are >patents based on technologies which do not yet exist. > > That's not supposed to happen. The traditional definition of patents required creation of a prototype, or at least a current real-world implementation. >The patent system in the United States is famously broken, but most intellectual property regimes have been subverted to be legal mechanisms >for the well-funded to destroy the less-well-funded in the business arena. > > Sure, because even an invalid (or improperly obtained) patent still gives the holder the ability to claim rights. You may be able to prove the claim wrong, but go bankrupt in the process. In addition to draining your bank account on lawyers, often injunctions prevent you from using the contentious technology while you're challenging its patent. Evan Leibovitch Co-inventor, US Patent * 5,579,117* -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 16:33:35 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:33:35 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? It may be feasible, but there is reason to disrecommend using a journalled filesystem on flash, namely that journalling introduces a "hot spot." Whether it's ReiserFS or ext3, you introduce a ~32MB section of the device that is being *continually* updated every time any changes are made on the filesystem. Flash devices can only cope with limited numbers of updates per "sector", which means that you'll be diminishing the lifespan. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 16:40:38 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:40:38 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? > > It may be feasible, but there is reason to disrecommend using a > journalled filesystem on flash, namely that journalling introduces a > "hot spot." > > Whether it's ReiserFS or ext3, you introduce a ~32MB section of the > device that is being *continually* updated every time any changes are > made on the filesystem. > > Flash devices can only cope with limited numbers of updates per > "sector", which means that you'll be diminishing the lifespan. That is a good point that I was interested in knowing. Will ext2 be OK? Will "running" an OS from flash memory greatly reduce it's lifespan due to this aforementioned limitation? Can someone illuminate how flash memory counts each "access"? Does access to every sector count as one access? Or, if I copy an 8MB file, does that count as one access? What if I copy 100 512K files (how many "accesses" would that be)? Thanks for any help on this. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 17:10:17 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:10:17 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On 1/24/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? > > > > It may be feasible, but there is reason to disrecommend using a > > journalled filesystem on flash, namely that journalling introduces a > > "hot spot." > > > > Whether it's ReiserFS or ext3, you introduce a ~32MB section of the > > device that is being *continually* updated every time any changes are > > made on the filesystem. > > > > Flash devices can only cope with limited numbers of updates per > > "sector", which means that you'll be diminishing the lifespan. > > That is a good point that I was interested in knowing. Will ext2 be > OK? Will "running" an OS from flash memory greatly reduce it's > lifespan due to this aforementioned limitation? Can someone illuminate > how flash memory counts each "access"? Does access to every sector > count as one access? Or, if I copy an 8MB file, does that count as one > access? What if I copy 100 512K files (how many "accesses" would that > be)? I'm not certain what the granularity is, but the point is that every *update* moves you towards the eventual failure of the device. *Access* doesn't do that; *updates* do it. Copying an 8MB file would presumably involve: a) Writing 8MB of data on the filesystem; b) Writing a couple KB of data of filesystem metadata; c) If journalling, writing the couple KB of filesystem metadata in the journal The failure of the device will most likely take place because: a) There's a section of flash being used for FS metadata that you have updated over and over 150K times, wearing out the flash memory, or b) You have burned through the journal 150K times, wearing out the flash memory used for that section of data. Note that it probably *isn't* the 8MB that will "kill you"; that isn't likely to be a "hot spot" on the flash device. "Hot spots," updated frequently, which are likely to either be metadata (e.g. - file/directory entries in frequently updated directories) or journals, are what will quickly reach "end of life." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 17:26:57 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:26:57 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > That is a good point that I was interested in knowing. Will ext2 be > > OK? Will "running" an OS from flash memory greatly reduce it's > > lifespan due to this aforementioned limitation? Can someone illuminate > > how flash memory counts each "access"? Does access to every sector > > count as one access? Or, if I copy an 8MB file, does that count as one > > access? What if I copy 100 512K files (how many "accesses" would that > > be)? > > I'm not certain what the granularity is, but the point is that every > *update* moves you towards the eventual failure of the device. > *Access* doesn't do that; *updates* do it. > > Copying an 8MB file would presumably involve: > a) Writing 8MB of data on the filesystem; > b) Writing a couple KB of data of filesystem metadata; > c) If journalling, writing the couple KB of filesystem metadata in the journal > > The failure of the device will most likely take place because: > a) There's a section of flash being used for FS metadata that you have updated > over and over 150K times, wearing out the flash memory, or > b) You have burned through the journal 150K times, wearing out the > flash memory used for that section of data. > > Note that it probably *isn't* the 8MB that will "kill you"; that isn't > likely to be a "hot spot" on the flash device. "Hot spots," updated > frequently, which are likely to either be metadata (e.g. - > file/directory entries in frequently updated directories) or journals, > are what will quickly reach "end of life." Christopher, Thanks... this helps a lot. It looks like my best solution is to install a LIVE CD to USB flash memory (and maybe put a persistent home directory on there too). This way (from what I understand), the entire OS will only be READ and not rewritten (with the possible exception of my home directory). I guess as for upgrading, I'll just download a new version when it comes out. This sounds good anyway, as the USB flash memory will still be way faster than CD. (FYI, instructions for Kanotix on USB): http://wiki.kanotix.net/CoMa.php?CoMa=usb-stickEN Thanks again for answering my questions. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 17:37:26 2006 From: rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org (Rebecca Smalley) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:37:26 +0000 Subject: Linux Format magazine Message-ID: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> Hi all This doesn't seem like the most appropriate way to contact the group, but I haven't been able to find another way, so apologies in advance. I'm writing from Linux Format magazine in Bath, England (www.linuxformat.co.uk). Would GTALUG like to feature as our Overseas User Group of the month? It looks like a pretty active group and it would be lovely to have you in the magazine; I'm sure our Canadian readers would be pleased to read about you. It would involve someone from the LUG writing 250 words or so on the group: your history, your members, your goals and so on. If you're interested let me know and I'll send you some details. In the meantime, apologies for the mass mail... Rebecca S Operations Editor Linux Format +44 (0)1225 442244 ext 5115 rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org www.linuxformat.co.uk ------------------------------- Visit the LXF team blog at www.linuxformat.co.uk/blog This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please reply to this email and then delete it. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Future. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Future accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Future may regularly and randomly monitor outgoing and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunications systems. By replying to this email you give your consent to such monitoring. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:00:09 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:00:09 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060124180009.GA2407@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 11:10:58AM -0500, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I would like to know if this is possible: > > 1) Installed distro on hard drive (size around 1.5GB). > > 2) Format a 2GB USB 2.0 FLASH drive with ReiserFS or ext3. > > 3) Completely move the hard drive installed distro to the USB FLASH > drive (which would be bootable). I've seen instructions for moving > installed OS to another partition, so I assume the same instructions > would work. > > Has anyone ever done this? Will it work? I'm hoping to create a > "customized" distro install that I can take and plug into different > machines. I'd like to have a real OS as opposed to a live cd so that I > can still update and upgrade. > > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from > trying this? > > Any help would be appreciated as always. > > -Steve. 1. Yes, it will work. In fact, that how my USB thin-client works (See my .sig). It boots and runs off USB key drive. 2. Now, you don't need to install to harddisk and then copy to USB key. You can install directly to USB key. Key insight here is USB key == SCSI harddisk that is, you'll see it as /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, or ... 3. As for Ext3 and Reiserfs, I recommend 'ext2' with 'noatime' mount option. Since it will be root device, it has to be writeable. But, you can turn off logging, or use ramdisk for /tmp and the likes. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:38:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:38:13 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf-yMxZYGpqpdJqlZmpRoQC2VmuhGz1hbfE@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> Message-ID: <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 04:03:54PM -0800, nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > For the (web based) UI of our application, we'd like to display the Real > Life (TM) details of an organisation based on an IP address. This is > what the whois service is for. Unfortunately, what the whois server > actually replies with is not specified by any RFC or other standard that > I am aware of, and in practice the format is nearly free form. That > would be OK if all we wanted to do was to show the first reply; but we > need to follow the referrals to other whois servers holding information > about suballocated blocks. Our problem is, then, that the format of > these referrals also varies, and no existing software seems to cover all > of them. > > As an example, try this with the whois client in debian (by > md-k2GhghHVRtY at public.gmane.org): > > whois -h whois.arin.net 61.100.186.185 > > you'll see that it correctly handled the first referral (from > whois.arin.net to whois.apnic.net) but missed the next which was buried > in this snippet: > > remarks: This IP address space has been allocated to KRNIC. > remarks: For more information, using KRNIC Whois Database > remarks: whois -h whois.nic.or.kr > > Does anyone know of a general solution to this situation? The whois command on debian seems to know how to follow references for a very large number of whois systems. It has certainly had to be updated once in a while, but it is very very nice to use. Just doing whois 61.100.186.185 returns what to me looks like exactly the right information. Might be worth looking at how that version is implemented. Description: the GNU whois client This is a new whois (RFC 3912) client rewritten from scratch. It is inspired from and compatible with the usual BSD and RIPE whois(1) programs. It is intelligent and can automatically select the appropriate whois server for most queries. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:41:50 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:41:50 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060124184149.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 11:10:58AM -0500, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I would like to know if this is possible: > > 1) Installed distro on hard drive (size around 1.5GB). Sounds perfectly doable. > 2) Format a 2GB USB 2.0 FLASH drive with ReiserFS or ext3. Make sure you mount without sync, which some distributions tend to do. noatime is also recomended. > 3) Completely move the hard drive installed distro to the USB FLASH > drive (which would be bootable). I've seen instructions for moving > installed OS to another partition, so I assume the same instructions > would work. Well cp -ax / /newroot or something similar will at least take care of some of it. Fixing the boot loader, initrd, etc is another task. > Has anyone ever done this? Will it work? I'm hoping to create a > "customized" distro install that I can take and plug into different > machines. I'd like to have a real OS as opposed to a live cd so that I > can still update and upgrade. I imagine someone has done something like it. > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? Differing hardware will be entertaining. You need something to load all the usb drivers, possibly picking the right one based on what type of usb controller the host has, from initrd, so that you can then mount the filesystem. If you want X, you have to deal with X configuration, mouse type and port, etc. Maybe a knoppix install on a usb card would solve a lot of that since it already does a lot of work to deal with hardware detection. Much of what you are likely to need is what the live distributions already do. > Any help would be appreciated as always. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:43:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:43:18 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060124184318.GV18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 11:33:35AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? > > It may be feasible, but there is reason to disrecommend using a > journalled filesystem on flash, namely that journalling introduces a > "hot spot." True. If the flash device does not have hardware wear leveling, that would be a problem. So would the FAT table in general, so you would really hope most devices are smart enough to have wear leveling. If they don't the filesystem they usually come with is bound to kill them quickly too. > Whether it's ReiserFS or ext3, you introduce a ~32MB section of the > device that is being *continually* updated every time any changes are > made on the filesystem. > > Flash devices can only cope with limited numbers of updates per > "sector", which means that you'll be diminishing the lifespan. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:45:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:45:27 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060124184527.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 11:40:38AM -0500, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > That is a good point that I was interested in knowing. Will ext2 be > OK? Will "running" an OS from flash memory greatly reduce it's > lifespan due to this aforementioned limitation? Can someone illuminate > how flash memory counts each "access"? Does access to every sector > count as one access? Or, if I copy an 8MB file, does that count as one > access? What if I copy 100 512K files (how many "accesses" would that > be)? Write accesses are what matter. Some filesystems like jffs are designed to automatically spread the load over the entire device when writing. Filesystems designed for harddisks are not. They are designed for efficiency. However if the device itself keeps track of how often each block is written, it can shuffle things around to elliminate hotspots. Many flash devices do this, but a lot don't. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:49:41 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:49:41 -0500 Subject: [OT] Google Earth In-Reply-To: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> References: <43D2CFF0.20390.10D0F8BE@localhost> Message-ID: <20060124184941.GX18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 12:21:04AM -0500, Paul King wrote: > I have been wondering what other people think of Google's recent desktop > application, called "Google Earth" (only runs on Macs and Windoze). The free > service is like Google Maps, except that it is more interactive, and it allows > you to freely make contributions and comments on your favourite places, and share > them with others in appropriate places on the map. Also runs on wine. I remember seeing a small howto on how to install it since it does involve a couple of weird wine settings. > I followed someone's "tour" of the baseball diamonds of the American and National > Leagues done in the order of a "Travelling salesman" algorithm --- a kind of "all- > pairs-shortest-paths" problem. > > I notice that this somewhat fails in that there are some places which have a > duplication (or sometimes more than a duplication) of efforts. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 18:53:44 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:53:44 -0500 Subject: [OT] Lowcost cellphone plans In-Reply-To: <20060122230819.GD6148-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060122230819.GD6148@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060124185343.GY18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 06:08:19PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm somewhat of a luddite with respect to cellphones, but even I admit > that there are occasions when they come in handy. I don't expect to use > it that often. I'm looking for POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service), so > I'm willing to do without tons of "features". > > In *MY* case, the best plans are the low monthly fee with a high > air-minute fee model. The Virgin Mobile "Minute 2 Minute" plan as > described at... > http://www.virginmobile.ca/site/en/pricesAndFeatures/html/pricesAndFeatures.html > best suits my needs, of the ones I've Googled so far. Is there a web > site somewhere that compares plans? Any better plans anywhere? > > At the risk of drifting onto topic for this list, are there any > cellphones *WITHOUT* an OS? I don't care whether it's Palm or Symbian > or Windows or Linux, any OS will present some vulnerabilities. No clue what OS my phone has. It does not have a camera, bluetooth, IR, or anything else other than cell phone access. I can download stuff if I want to, but I would have to actually do that. I supports JAVA so I suppose I could download stuff, but since the java thing appears to be exlusively a little interactive box, it can't talk to the phonebook, mms, or anything else as far as I know, then it seems quite safe. I just wanted a phone with a clear screen, nice buttons, good battery life, and no camera or other crap. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:13:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:13:24 -0500 Subject: *Quickly* counting the number of files on a partition In-Reply-To: <43CF41C0.2090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43CF0E20.2040405@alteeve.com> <87irsgvgxf.fsf@gmail.com> <43CF41C0.2090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060124191324.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 02:37:36AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > w00ts!! > > '# stat -f /' (where '/' is the root partition) works absolutely > beautifully on 'ext*' file systems (at least). However, it doesn't work > on an SMB mounted partitions (and others?) though... I doubt SMB includes any such data on the filesystem. I don't think any windows filesystem maintains that data being that they are not inode based in the first place. > This is a huge step forward, but if you or anyone can think of a > similar trick for other file systems (or perhaps a file system-agnostic > method) that would be really helpful, too. > > In the mean time, I can check the FS and if it's one that this trick > will work on I can go ahead and use the nicer progress bar and just fall > back on the current scheme for unsupported file systems... at least > until I can find similar tricks for them, too. > > Thank you *very* much!! > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up > Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org > Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:17:14 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:17:14 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <20060124183813.GT18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 04:03:54PM -0800, nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > For the (web based) UI of our application, we'd like to display the Real > > Life (TM) details of an organisation based on an IP address. This is > > what the whois service is for. Unfortunately, what the whois server > > actually replies with is not specified by any RFC or other standard that > > I am aware of, and in practice the format is nearly free form. That > > would be OK if all we wanted to do was to show the first reply; but we > > need to follow the referrals to other whois servers holding information > > about suballocated blocks. Our problem is, then, that the format of > > these referrals also varies, and no existing software seems to cover all > > of them. > > > > As an example, try this with the whois client in debian (by > > md-k2GhghHVRtY at public.gmane.org): > > > > whois -h whois.arin.net 61.100.186.185 > > > > you'll see that it correctly handled the first referral (from > > whois.arin.net to whois.apnic.net) but missed the next which was buried > > in this snippet: > > > > remarks: This IP address space has been allocated to KRNIC. > > remarks: For more information, using KRNIC Whois Database > > remarks: whois -h whois.nic.or.kr > > > > Does anyone know of a general solution to this situation? > > The whois command on debian seems to know how to follow references for a > very large number of whois systems. It has certainly had to be updated > once in a while, but it is very very nice to use. Just doing whois > 61.100.186.185 returns what to me looks like exactly the right > information. > > Might be worth looking at how that version is implemented. > > Description: the GNU whois client > This is a new whois (RFC 3912) client rewritten from scratch. > It is inspired from and compatible with the usual BSD and RIPE whois(1) > programs. > It is intelligent and can automatically select the appropriate whois > server for most queries. The trouble is that there are at least *three* things going on... 1. The WHOIS RFC doesn't specify terribly much... Merely that you connect to a server, on port 43, submit an object, and expect to get a text content reply. 2. The Debian whois client is, indeed, very nice in that it knows that a whole lot of TLDs exist, and, for many (not all) of them, what server will provide relevant WHOIS results. It's my favorite whois client for this reason... 3. As there is no standardization of the output, you can expect to get varying results from different WHOIS servers servicing different TLDs. This is actually quite legitimate in view of the fact that different TLDs have different sets of policies... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:25:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:25:15 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601192244h26d5ba92wd9859b1041bfe67b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601191834p1b49abc5h945356a5b5de156c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601192244h26d5ba92wd9859b1041bfe67b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060124192515.GA18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 01:44:31AM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > With focused leadership, there's no reason why your organization > shouldn't be able to guide the project along. Every project needs a > maintainer, non? It generally needs someone that cares about it to drive development. ANd sometimes to keep feature bloat under control. > You've got the app. If you give them the source, they will come. > Work with your community and provide strong leadership on project > matters... delegate the rewrite tasks -- find ways to let the > community help you with your rewrite efforts, while building a bigger, > better product and/or service. It all really depends what business you are in. > postgres... people keep saying that. If you are at it, could you port bugzilla to postgres too. Then I could get rid of the stupid thing entirely. :) I would prefer everything on a nice database. > Where do we sign up for 40hr days, by the way??? Lol. Oh I want some of those too. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:27:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:27:34 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060124192734.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 02:17:14PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > The trouble is that there are at least *three* things going on... > > 1. The WHOIS RFC doesn't specify terribly much... > > Merely that you connect to a server, on port 43, submit an object, and > expect to get a text content reply. Nice protocol. Simple to implement, and hard to break. > 2. The Debian whois client is, indeed, very nice in that it knows > that a whole lot of TLDs exist, and, for many (not all) of them, what > server will provide relevant WHOIS results. It's my favorite whois > client for this reason... The GNU whois client certainly does seem to be the best so far. > 3. As there is no standardization of the output, you can expect to > get varying results from different WHOIS servers servicing different > TLDs. This is actually quite legitimate in view of the fact that > different TLDs have different sets of policies... I also VERY much hope it stays this way. Many problems have been caused by people trying to automatically harvest contact info from whois to spam people. The harder that is to automate, the better. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:30:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:30:34 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060120043400.GA20914-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060124193034.GC18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:34:00PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I recently purchased the Linksys WRT54G router. I have received (thank > you TLUG) some advice about how to plug it into my network. I need one > more piece of advice. > > In many places in the (nearly non-existent) documentation leaflet, and > on the device itself, I am instructed to RUN CD FIRST, before connecting > cables. Here's the thing - this CD is for windoze boxen, and I am not > about to find a copy of windoze just to run a CD unless I absolutely > have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I > just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its > IP address? Thanks again. I can't even imagine what their CD would do. It should allow dhcp client on the switch ports and the manual should tell you what IP it is on (as will the gateway IP it gives you by dhcp). Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:42:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:42:03 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060124194203.GD18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 04:25:32PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >But this doesn't explain why it is beneficial to get an extra > >middlecritter in between you and OPG, who are probably the same people > >that were providing the power both before and after the transaction. > > It isn't always beneficial. It's a *fixed* price, if the > price goes down, you don't get a break. What you're > effectively doing is investing in energy "futures", and > therefore making a bet on which direction the price is > going to go. If it goes up, you win; if it goes down, you lose. > Since energy prices have continued to rise, few have seen > a losing bet. So salespeople can continue to push the myth > that their fixed price contracts are cheaper. IMO, if you > really want to invest in energy futures, go to the financial > markets and buy them directly - then you'll really cut out > the middleman. Well the contracts start out at a higher price than the current floating price, so you are actually betting that the average price over the next 5 years will be higher than the fixed price you are signing up for. So far I haven't made such a bet. I have bought a programable thermostat, and I intend to replace the furnace in the next 6 month with a new one. The current one is 30 years old, and certainly not super efficient by any means. I paid to upgrade the garage door replacement last summer to a highly insulated one, over the default slightly insulated one the condo corp was offering. I am not convinced by these fixed rate deals yet, since in my opinion, these companies have one goal in mind: Make a profit. So they are investing in futures and also hoping the price they lock you in at will be higher on average than the price they can buy it at. I remember when the gas market was opened up for competition, some companies went around and would sign people up for a garenteed maximum price for a certain time period, for a $50 fee. They also promised if the price went down, they would match it. Well the price went down, and they all went out of business since they couldn't afford to pay their contracts for fixed rates, and offer the customer the new lower average price. The current supply of these companies at least don't offer to match the price if it goes down, but instead just keep showing graphs and articles about how much the price has gone up over a certain time period. The real question is of course, whether the past is any indication of the future when it comes to gas or electricity prices. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:45:46 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:45:46 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <43CF9FD5.8050504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <43B03F21.6060101@gmail.com> <43BA915A.9060701@gmail.com> <20060103155721.GO26580@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43BE7CED.7080907@gmail.com> <43C7D8BA.3060809@gmail.com> <20060113221017.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43CF9FD5.8050504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060124194546.GE18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 09:19:01AM -0500, PW Armstrong wrote: > Lenn - It was the monitor settings, nothing to do with the vc > driver(s). Monitor was set to unknown type, with a dpi setting of 0x0. > Changed the dpi, and refresh rates, and was then able to set the > resolution to 1280x1024, and using the VESA generic driver it works fine. You will get much better performance from the nv driver than the vesa driver. > Lenn, thx for your help and tips. And when I get the time, will > definitely upgrade to a current distro. Any recommendation? I know, > that's a loaded question, no need to answer. Thx. I run Debian stable at work, and Debian unstable on my main machine at home. My other toy machines run Debian testing, except for the SGI which runs Irix 6.x and the Amigas which run AmigaOS (usually 1.3). :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:46:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:46:17 -0500 Subject: linux display driver for M810LMR motherboard/prosavage4 graphics In-Reply-To: <200601231425.21784.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <845e3b310512160742h302c372aq736b20137ba4666c@mail.gmail.com> <20060113221017.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43CF9FD5.8050504@gmail.com> <200601231425.21784.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060124194617.GF18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:25:21PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > He always suggests Debian, haven't you noticed? Wow, someone has been paying attention. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:48:58 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:48:58 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060124193034.GC18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060124193034.GC18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060124144858.0xpmqrglwo0kw4og@www.detachednetworks.ca> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:34:00PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I recently purchased the Linksys WRT54G router. I have received (thank >> you TLUG) some advice about how to plug it into my network. I need one >> more piece of advice. >> >> In many places in the (nearly non-existent) documentation leaflet, and >> on the device itself, I am instructed to RUN CD FIRST, before connecting >> cables. Here's the thing - this CD is for windoze boxen, and I am not >> about to find a copy of windoze just to run a CD unless I absolutely >> have to. Here's the question: do I really need to run the CD, or do I >> just plug the damn thing in, plug an Ethernet cable into it, and hit its >> IP address? Thanks again. > > I can't even imagine what their CD would do. The new Linksys routers and cards have whats called "easy secure setup" ( at least I think that is what it is called ). You install the software on all PC's being connected to the router,then access the configuration page for the router. On the first page for the wireless there is the "easy secure setup" button. Click on it and the router goes into a learning mode where is sends configuration data back to the clients . After a few minutes the router restarts and the configuration settings are done, and WPA enabled. As for the fact that there is only windows software for this, and that I have seen it fail more often than work, manual setup is in my opinion a far better way to go. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:51:37 2006 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:51:37 -0500 Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q@public.gmane.org> References: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> Message-ID: <43D68549.2090202@mineallmeyn.com> Rebecca Smalley wrote: > Hi all > > This doesn't seem like the most appropriate way to contact the group, > but I haven't been able to find another way, so apologies in advance. > > I'm writing from Linux Format magazine in Bath, England > (www.linuxformat.co.uk). Would GTALUG like to feature as our Overseas > User Group of the month? It looks like a pretty active group and it > would be lovely to have you in the magazine; I'm sure our Canadian > readers would be pleased to read about you. It would involve someone > from the LUG writing 250 words or so on the group: your history, your > members, your goals and so on. > > If you're interested let me know and I'll send you some details. > > In the meantime, apologies for the mass mail... > > Rebecca S > > > Operations Editor > Linux Format > +44 (0)1225 442244 ext 5115 > rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org > www.linuxformat.co.uk In case anyone is wondering, this is most likely legit. I subscribed to this magazine for a few years and they regularly have a little blurb on a local (to Bath/England) LUG somewhere in the last few pages. Cheers, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:51:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <20060124195154.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 09:15:00PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I remember the old days when Commodore and Atari and Apple fans fought > over which was the best 8 bit system, when various fans fought over > which 68K home computer was "best," and such... Back in those days, > we were bright but nonetheless pretty stupid kids. "We're the best; > the other computers SUCK!!!" Oh the 68k question is easy: Commodore had the best hardware, Apple the best marketing, and atari got nothing. > Linux versus Windows fits into this in much the same way. Yes, each > has merits and demerits; there's a pretty hefty amount of "chip on > shoulder" such that some of the opining is really rather juvenile. Unfortunately to me it seems the biggest advantage windows has is available software. That could be changed. It has some other features that are more user friendly for now, although linux continutes to improve there too. I know which I find easier to debug when something goes wrong. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:55:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:54 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027099E50-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027099E50@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <20060124195554.GH18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 10:14:30PM -0500, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > If you're writing applications for a WebLogic application server, this > is not actually an unrelated skill set. I have someone here that with > the exception of using software other than Loadrunner for the testing > matrix has this as part of her skill set... So someone has been using windows and unix, java, vb script, and com, on apache and iis, and dealt with firewalls, linux and sql and started using html when it just came out? Someone is out of their minds. :) Some 'OR' options in there would be good. After all who would use both IIS and apache at the same time. Same for the other combinations. You can't be an expert at everything at the same time. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 19:58:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:58:29 -0500 Subject: Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20060124144858.0xpmqrglwo0kw4og-KUU/ezshfxN5BoYsG7eyVkWRYpP4FS/b@public.gmane.org> References: <20060120043400.GA20914@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060124193034.GC18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060124144858.0xpmqrglwo0kw4og@www.detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20060124195829.GI18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 02:48:58PM -0500, Jason Shein wrote: > The new Linksys routers and cards have whats called "easy secure setup" > ( at least I think that is what it is called ). You install the > software on all PC's being connected to the router,then access the > configuration page for the router. On the first page for the wireless > there is the "easy secure setup" button. Click on it and the router > goes into a learning mode where is sends configuration data back to the > clients . After a few minutes the router restarts and the configuration > settings are done, and WPA enabled. > > As for the fact that there is only windows software for this, and that > I have seen it fail more often than work, manual setup is in my opinion > a far better way to go. My USR8054 has a web wizard to do the same thing. Doesn't require windows software, it just requires you to connect to the url they tell you on the quick install guide. Oh and it works too. Stupid linksys. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 20:00:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:03 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <43D26A31.8020609-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20060124200003.GJ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:06:57PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be > simultenously accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? How does the filesystem put up with that? That is the one thing I have never figured out. > I want this as a cheap way of simulating a SAN, I have SANs in the > office but I want similar capability on the cheap for home. > > Ideally the solution would be a drive pack similar to the external USB > drives you can buy these days with room for 2 HDD so that I can do > hardware or software RAID. > > If the total solution was < $1K excluding disks I could swing that. Can't you run iscsi on a simple linux PC? I thought someone had made an iscsi host emulator for linux. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 20:09:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:09:32 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060124200932.GK18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 01:50:36AM -0500, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? > > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. Are there any recordings old enough to be out of copyright by now? The music may be public domain, but the performances don't have to be. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 20:11:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:11:08 -0500 Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <43CE5D10.6010005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CE5D10.6010005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060124201108.GL18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 10:21:52AM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Beethoven > Turntable > Preamp > Soundcard > audacity > lame... > > You can get a good enough preamp for less than $40 from lots of places, > even a cheap Tandy unit works well for this purpose (what I've got). > That way you've got the same recording that you've grown accustomed to > -- I have a hard time listening to anyone else's version of Handel's > Watermusic except for Roger Norrington and the London Classical Players' > rendition. > > With your own preamp you also get the added bonus of capturing that well > worn vinyl sound, complete with pops, hisses, and crackles. You can even > clean the resulting file up such that major defects get reduced to > listenable small defects. Definitely worth your time to encode your own IMO. Creative Labs current top card has a turntable input, and supposedly software to try and elliminate scratches and such (in windows only of course). Not sure what the support for the new cards is like under linux at this time. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 20:36:20 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:36:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <43D68549.2090202-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <43D68549.2090202@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <20060124203621.91876.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've sent them an e-mail offering to do the write-up they have asked for. Colin McGregor --- Oliver Meyn wrote: > Rebecca Smalley wrote: > > Hi all > > > > This doesn't seem like the most appropriate way to > contact the group, > > but I haven't been able to find another way, so > apologies in advance. > > > > I'm writing from Linux Format magazine in Bath, > England > > (www.linuxformat.co.uk). Would GTALUG like to > feature as our Overseas > > User Group of the month? It looks like a pretty > active group and it > > would be lovely to have you in the magazine; I'm > sure our Canadian > > readers would be pleased to read about you. It > would involve someone > > from the LUG writing 250 words or so on the group: > your history, your > > members, your goals and so on. > > > > If you're interested let me know and I'll send you > some details. > > > > In the meantime, apologies for the mass mail... > > > > Rebecca S > > > > > > Operations Editor > > Linux Format > > +44 (0)1225 442244 ext 5115 > > rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org > > www.linuxformat.co.uk > > In case anyone is wondering, this is most likely > legit. I subscribed to > this magazine for a few years and they regularly > have a little blurb on > a local (to Bath/England) LUG somewhere in the last > few pages. > > Cheers, > Oliver > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 21:32:08 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:32:08 +0000 Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <20060124203621.91876.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060124203621.91876.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43D69CD8.3030600@zen.co.uk> I will have to keep an eye out for it here in the UK, Paul Colin McGregor wrote: >I've sent them an e-mail offering to do the write-up >they have asked for. > >Colin McGregor > >--- Oliver Meyn wrote: > > > >>Rebecca Smalley wrote: >> >> >>>Hi all >>> >>>This doesn't seem like the most appropriate way to >>> >>> >>contact the group, >> >> >>>but I haven't been able to find another way, so >>> >>> >>apologies in advance. >> >> >>>I'm writing from Linux Format magazine in Bath, >>> >>> >>England >> >> >>>(www.linuxformat.co.uk). Would GTALUG like to >>> >>> >>feature as our Overseas >> >> >>>User Group of the month? It looks like a pretty >>> >>> >>active group and it >> >> >>>would be lovely to have you in the magazine; I'm >>> >>> >>sure our Canadian >> >> >>>readers would be pleased to read about you. It >>> >>> >>would involve someone >> >> >>>from the LUG writing 250 words or so on the group: >>> >>> >>your history, your >> >> >>>members, your goals and so on. >>> >>>If you're interested let me know and I'll send you >>> >>> >>some details. >> >> >>>In the meantime, apologies for the mass mail... >>> >>>Rebecca S >>> >>> >>>Operations Editor >>>Linux Format >>>+44 (0)1225 442244 ext 5115 >>>rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org >>>www.linuxformat.co.uk >>> >>> >>In case anyone is wondering, this is most likely >>legit. I subscribed to >>this magazine for a few years and they regularly >>have a little blurb on >>a local (to Bath/England) LUG somewhere in the last >>few pages. >> >>Cheers, >>Oliver >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.openoffice.org http://www.linux.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 24 17:49:41 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:49:41 +0200 (IST) Subject: OT what is the opinion here on the NTP/RIM problem ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Hmm, good answer. I had not thought of that. Statistics show that the small >> inventors and companies lead in patent applications, but that they have a >> hard time making money out of them. That sort of throws a wrench into the >> works imho. >> >> Peter > > Again pointing out the current need for big business and its capital to get a > really good product off the ground (and lots of mediocre ones of course!). > Granted RIM may not have been all that large in the beginning, but I'm sure > that for every successful company like RIM out there, there were 10 other > companies that failed miserably. I'm sure there was much venture capital > involvedin getting RIM up and running as well. The key word here is likely 'venture capital'. Patent-holding companies are not a necessary part of the picture. It's just that the US system seems to like the idea. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 00:27:03 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:27:03 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D6C5D7.1060002@rogers.com> bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On 1/24/06, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On 1/24/06, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? >> It may be feasible, but there is reason to disrecommend using a >> journalled filesystem on flash, namely that journalling introduces a >> "hot spot." >> >> Whether it's ReiserFS or ext3, you introduce a ~32MB section of the >> device that is being *continually* updated every time any changes are >> made on the filesystem. >> >> Flash devices can only cope with limited numbers of updates per >> "sector", which means that you'll be diminishing the lifespan. > > That is a good point that I was interested in knowing. Will ext2 be > OK? Will "running" an OS from flash memory greatly reduce it's > lifespan due to this aforementioned limitation? Can someone illuminate > how flash memory counts each "access"? Does access to every sector > count as one access? Or, if I copy an 8MB file, does that count as one > access? What if I copy 100 512K files (how many "accesses" would that > be)? As I recall, it's only writing that causes this. You can read as much as you want, without worry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 00:51:50 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:51:50 -0500 Subject: Quota on NFS Message-ID: Hi all, Just wondering, when a NFS client try to access a shared NFS file system, the server see it either as a user "nobody" or "root" depending on the configuration - options inserted on fstab. Now, to enforce quotas, you need a better user name, nobody and root isn't going to cut it as its too general. How does the rquota get this information? Thanks William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 01:02:07 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:02:07 -0500 Subject: ReiserFS or ext3 on USB flash drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D6CE0F.1040700@utoronto.ca> bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I would like to know if this is possible: > > 1) Installed distro on hard drive (size around 1.5GB). > > 2) Format a 2GB USB 2.0 FLASH drive with ReiserFS or ext3. > > 3) Completely move the hard drive installed distro to the USB FLASH > drive (which would be bootable). I've seen instructions for moving > installed OS to another partition, so I assume the same instructions > would work. > > Has anyone ever done this? Will it work? I'm hoping to create a > "customized" distro install that I can take and plug into different > machines. I'd like to have a real OS as opposed to a live cd so that I > can still update and upgrade. > > Is this feasible? Does anyone know of any potential pitfalls from trying this? As Lennart pointed out, drivers and Xorg would be a problem with an install versus a completely live distro like knoppix. One distribution to check out is SLAX, which allows you to write the media (cd-rw, usb) while running a "live" distro. I think it also allows you to save your settings and files to the media, allowing you to boot and have your desktop on any computer that can boot from usb. http://slax.linux-live.org/ One other to check is Mepis, specifically their traveler disc (as they call it. More here: http://www.mepis.org/node/465 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 01:21:56 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:21:56 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <20060124194203.GD18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> <20060124194203.GD18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43D6D2B4.6040200@sympatico.ca> Anyone long on gas futures for this winter has lost badly; the expected price dropped with the mild winter we're having. Enbridge and now Toronto Hydro are allowed to book energy savings as profits now. In the last few months, someone from your gas company should've been round to check your pipe insulation, and fit low-flow showerheads and tap aerators for free. I wish I'd got Linux running properly on the Mini-ITX box, as it draws about 35W, compared to my Athlon XP's ~100W. The iBook only draws 19W, display included. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 01:25:00 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:25:00 -0500 Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q@public.gmane.org> References: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> Message-ID: <43D6D36C.1020305@sympatico.ca> Hi Rebecca, Say hi to your editor, and my old colleague, Nick "Green" Veitch. Nick and I used to write for Amstrad Computer User magazine almost 20 years ago. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 05:39:06 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:39:06 -0500 Subject: [OT] Open Source and my company's web application In-Reply-To: <20060124192515.GA18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990601181743o3d84f752nc04f782b31dd0535@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601181758t1c809174k64578f69d7c4ab09@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990601191834p1b49abc5h945356a5b5de156c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0601192244h26d5ba92wd9859b1041bfe67b@mail.gmail.com> <20060124192515.GA18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601242139l1e9dedfcs7f51b5ab329d293a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 01:44:31AM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > With focused leadership, there's no reason why your organization > > shouldn't be able to guide the project along. Every project needs a > > maintainer, non? > > It generally needs someone that cares about it to drive development. > ANd sometimes to keep feature bloat under control. To be completely honest, my personal opinion is that "It generally needs someone that cares" would cover the basic needs of virtually any project. More advanced needs, like 'is it practical' make the difference between a project that "scores" and a project that survives. > > You've got the app. If you give them the source, they will come. > > Work with your community and provide strong leadership on project > > matters... delegate the rewrite tasks -- find ways to let the > > community help you with your rewrite efforts, while building a bigger, > > better product and/or service. > > It all really depends what business you are in. Agreed, but regardless of business "type," including your community makes all the difference in the world. > > postgres... people keep saying that. > > If you are at it, could you port bugzilla to postgres too. Then I could > get rid of the stupid thing entirely. :) I would prefer everything on a > nice database. No! lol. I've not even used bugzilla yet, though I've certainly seen once or 3 billiion times. I certainly do intend to learn enough to at least add postgres support to SAL. -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 05:45:27 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:45:27 -0500 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <20060124195154.GG18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> <20060124195154.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601242145k6b2af4advc14abf3f1f149287@mail.gmail.com> On 1/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 09:15:00PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > > I remember the old days when Commodore and Atari and Apple fans fought > > over which was the best 8 bit system, when various fans fought over > > which 68K home computer was "best," and such... Back in those days, > > we were bright but nonetheless pretty stupid kids. "We're the best; > > the other computers SUCK!!!" > > Oh the 68k question is easy: Commodore had the best hardware, Apple the > best marketing, and atari got nothing. Not sure if I remember correctly or not, but I think at that time Atari was fairly strong on video technology... > > Linux versus Windows fits into this in much the same way. Yes, each > > has merits and demerits; there's a pretty hefty amount of "chip on > > shoulder" such that some of the opining is really rather juvenile. > > Unfortunately to me it seems the biggest advantage windows has is > available software. That could be changed. It has some other features > that are more user friendly for now, although linux continutes to > improve there too. I know which I find easier to debug when something > goes wrong. It's funny in a way. Again, I'm not entirely certain, but if Open Source "groupies" (hackers, advocates, and users) could organize, I truly believe that situation could change really quickly. Linux has got so much going for it... (Ok, well not for it, itself, but for the "users") -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 06:43:35 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:43:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <20060124192734.GB18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060124192734.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <87hd7solii.fsf@gmail.com> Lennart> I also VERY much hope it stays this way. Many problems have Lennart> been caused by people trying to automatically harvest contact Lennart> info from whois to spam people. The harder that is to Lennart> automate, the better. Unfortunately, that's exactly what I am supposed to do, for a legitimate purpose (part of which is _fighting spam_, in fact). -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 06:50:34 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:50:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <20060124183813.GT18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <87d5igol6u.fsf@gmail.com> Lennart> The whois command on debian seems to know how to follow Lennart> references for a very large number of whois systems. It has Lennart> certainly had to be updated once in a while, but it is very Lennart> very nice to use. Just doing whois 61.100.186.185 returns what Lennart> to me looks like exactly the right information. What version of the package do you have? Mine stops at the same point as when run with -h. IOW, I get the snippet of output that tell me to run "whois -h whois.nic.or.kr" and when I do that manually, I indeed get the specific info for the smaller IP block, but the client doesn't do it automatically. Lennart> Might be worth looking at how that version is implemented. I did. :-( I know better than go ask here without any research, believe me. It seems to handle exactly 2 types of referrals, and this one (embedded within "remarks:" lines) is not one of them. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 12:54:49 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:54:49 +0200 (IST) Subject: [tpm] Job interview question In-Reply-To: <43CD9279.6080408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060112212101.31F6.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <17de01c617f4$b56f09d0$6a00a8c0@roadhog> <43CD80C2.3000200@rogers.com> <43CD9279.6080408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Byron Sonne wrote: > Wow, now I read back in the thread and realize someone said it better. Gah. > > It's totally true that if you know the trick, it's easy to exploit the > interviewer if they're not being smart about things. But I'd submit that, > among the people who do eventually get hired and turn out to be great > additions, the incidence of trick-knowing would be astonishingly high :) > Anyone who posed it as a decisive question would be foolish, it's gotta have > context. > > Not that responding to your own post isn't questionable... No problem. Even GNU chess has a 'take back step' button ;-) The way I like to think about such questions is, that they are traps. The trap consists in setting up a situation that would elicit a response from which the questioner would benefit, without giving up anything. But the goal of the answerer is to make good points. Since there is a penalty in answering wrong, and that has a 66% probability, *not* answering, on which there is no defined penalty is the right answer in a first approach imho (as this has a lower chance of failure than 66%). Once the questioner wants to go on he will have to motivate and hopefully give some clues. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 18 13:01:30 2006 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:01:30 +0200 (IST) Subject: free mp3 sites for classical ? In-Reply-To: <20060118065036.GA5931-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060118065036.GA5931@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, William Park wrote: > Beethoven is my favourite, but all my collections are LPs. Does anyone > here know free site for classical mp3's ? http://www.shoutcast.com/directory/index.phtml > PS. Yes, yes, I should get CDs. But, my turnable still works. You can get CDs while there, too. ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 13:14:31 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:14:31 -0500 Subject: another example of the hybrid business model I called private source Message-ID: <20060125132955.5BFB45D65@outbox.allstream.net> http://uk.builder.com/0,39026540,39294699,00.htm bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 14:54:43 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:54:43 -0500 Subject: Favourite Terminal Emulator? Message-ID: <20060125145443.GA6790@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Does anyone (everyone?) have a favourite terminal emulator? Why? I've been using rxvt-unicode for a while, because it's Unicode-aware and quick. I love the flexible features of Eterm, but it is very slow and doesn't as far as I can tell, speak Unicode, but for tailing logs in a handle-less fixed position window, it can't be beat. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 15:24:51 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:24:51 -0500 Subject: another example of the hybrid business model I called private source In-Reply-To: <20060125132955.5BFB45D65-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060125132955.5BFB45D65@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <43D79843.8030600@telly.org> bob wrote: >http://uk.builder.com/0,39026540,39294699,00.htm > > Some business model. Get your customers to do your software development and bug fixes for you, and charge them $50K for the privilege. The model itself looks like it more resembles the Microsoft Shared Source program than anything to do with open source. It's not even a business model (since it doesn't relate to how the company earns its revenue), it's a software development model. And yet... this company's software is based on components such as PostgreSQL (which is under the BSD license) and Qt (which is either proprietary or GPL). Combine this with the non-open-source license of the application's own software, and you potentially have a complex mix of licenses that's certain to cause something to be breached along the way. I see, in this article, a company and/or journalist who tosses around the term open source freely without actually doing open source. Exploitation and bandwagon jumping at its worst, bordering on deception: > OpenMFG provided clients with its applications' source code, as most > open source companies do, "As most open source companies do"...?" Providing source code is only one of the requirements of the description. Using BSD code and closing it off, for instance, does not make one an "open source company". That would apply to Apple and Microsoft, neither of which is considered particularly FOSS friendly. Because the application is not open source, do customers have to sign an NDA, like those given access to Shared Source? Doing so effectively prevents switching to another system because the client is, to use the old AT&T legalism, "intellectually contaminated". Not doing so allows clients to create (or participate in) other open source applications using techniques recalled from the company's source code. This scheme is only of _any_ value if the use of this development model allows the software price to be substantially lower than competition. In return for paying less, the user bears some responsibility to hire programmers to customize and fix bugs, there are subtle legal disincentives to switching vendors, and support expectations on the developer are reduced. From the user POV, I see no user benefit in this model compared to an open-source co-op. For a vendor it's good because you get your paying clients to do your heavy lifting for you after the initial release. In conclusion, I offer a snippet of a public statement, one of very few to be endorsed by Stallman *and* Torvalds, Raymond, Wall and a bunch of others. It talks about Shared Source but applies in general to the so-called "private source" model: > Microsoft's Shared Source program recognizes that there are many > benefits to the openness, community involvement, and innovation of the > Open Source model. But the most important component of that model, the > one that makes all of the others work, is freedom. [...] they hope to > get the benefits of Free Software without sharing those benefits with > those who participate in creating them. > http://perens.com/Articles/StandTogether.html - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 15:27:54 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:27:54 -0500 Subject: iSCSI, twin-tailed disk, cheap-cheap fibre channel, ??? In-Reply-To: <20060124200003.GJ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43D26A31.8020609@georgetown.wehave.net> <20060124200003.GJ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43D798FA.8010906@georgetown.wehave.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive disk that can be >>simultenously accessed (at block level) from multiple machines? > > How does the filesystem put up with that? That is the one thing I have > never figured out. You must use a cluster aware filesystem. OCFS2 is going into 2.6.16. GFS and lustre are also likely to be viable options and if you like to spend money there are always commercial options like veritas, polyserve, etc. > Can't you run iscsi on a simple linux PC? I thought someone had made an > iscsi host emulator for linux. Probably, you can also serve NBD and AoE with a PC but I was hoping for a standalone disk system that needed little management. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 15:51:20 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:51:20 -0500 Subject: Linksys BEFW11S4 Router Message-ID: <20060125155120.GA32454@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> I recently got hold of an older LinkSys BEFW11S4 router. I've updated the firmware to the latest available version and generally it all checks out. However, it seems to have a persistent problem in connecting to the Net -- the connection will get dropped, apparently without prior cause. Before I consign it to the trash, I thought I'd ask: Since these little blue boxes run embedded Linux, is there any way to replace the internals with some open firmware? I've googled a bit but can only find info about the WRT54GS, the big brother of the unit I've got. Any suggestions or ideas welcomed. It's very annoying -- I have another LinkSys unit that is completely rock-solid, and the pesky problem with this one seems like such a little thing... <> -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 16:09:33 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:09:33 -0500 Subject: Linksys BEFW11S4 Router In-Reply-To: <20060125155120.GA32454-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060125155120.GA32454@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1138205373.6324.52.camel@holden.weait.net> On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 10:51, Peter King wrote: > I recently got hold of an older LinkSys BEFW11S4 router. [ ... ] > Before I consign it to the trash, I thought I'd ask: Since these little > blue boxes run embedded Linux, is there any way to replace the internals > with some open firmware? I've googled a bit but can only find info about > the WRT54GS, the big brother of the unit I've got. > > Any suggestions or ideas welcomed. Open it up and see if the serial port pads are there (as found in the wrt54g series [1] ) If so, do the serial port hack. Connect to the console and watch the logs for clues. [1] http://www.dyoh.com/?q=node/view/23 Also, might it be over heating? Try running with the lid off. I recal this being a problem for some users who kept their Linksys' in a confined space. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 18:04:19 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 25 Jan 2006 13:04:19 -0500 Subject: Favourite Terminal Emulator? In-Reply-To: <20060125145443.GA6790-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060125145443.GA6790@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins Witteman writes: > Does anyone (everyone?) have a favourite terminal emulator? Why? > > I've been using rxvt-unicode for a while, because it's Unicode-aware and > quick. I love the flexible features of Eterm, but it is very slow and > doesn't as far as I can tell, speak Unicode, but for tailing logs in a > handle-less fixed position window, it can't be beat. Mine is xterm, mainly because it's not bloatware and, in my experience, it's terminal emulation is far better than more modern variants. I use screen within xterm which gives me multiple shells in one window (like tabs in konsole and others) but also allows me to detach from and reattach to a running process. I disable the scrollbar because screen allows me to navigate the scroll buffer as if I'm in vi -- far more useful than a scroll bar and doesn't require any screen real estate. And xterm has Xft support so you can get nice anti-aliased fonts too. IMO, the only reason to use another terminal emulator is that xterm is a PITA to configure, requiring use of .Xresources files and such which is bit daunting for non-technical users. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 18:04:20 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:04:20 +0000 Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <43D68549.2090202-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> <43D68549.2090202@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <43D7BDA4.4070208@zen.co.uk> Agreed as I said I used to read this, my collection has since been donated to my local lug, May have a look at a recent copy at upcomming lug meetings in the Uk. I think they are trying to do more than just Uk based lugs, it's nice to read about things in other countries, it also means we can go over seas on vacation for more than a week and go somewhere to talk linux, thats for those people who get with drawl symtoms from having no computer termnal for more than a few days. this is especially useful for advocacy as we all have seen similar barriers to oss adoption. Paul > > In case anyone is wondering, this is most likely legit. I subscribed > to this magazine for a few years and they regularly have a little > blurb on a local (to Bath/England) LUG somewhere in the last few pages. > > Cheers, > Oliver > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.openoffice.org http://www.linux.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 18:36:00 2006 From: rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org (Rebecca Smalley) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:36:00 +0000 Subject: Linux Format magazine In-Reply-To: <43D6D36C.1020305-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <15F65B09-8D00-11DA-A74B-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> <43D6D36C.1020305@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6E69C38E-8DD1-11DA-8202-0030653D71B0@futurenet.co.uk> Hi Stewart I said hi, and no sooner did Nick mention that you used to work in energy than I received your 'off-topic' post about Toronto Hydro...! Nick nostaglia may be continued here: www.flickr.com/photos/evilnick/ Rebecca On 25 Jan 2006, at 01:25, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Hi Rebecca, > > Say hi to your editor, and my old colleague, Nick "Green" Veitch. Nick > and I used to write for Amstrad Computer User magazine almost 20 years > ago. > > cheers, > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Operations Editor Linux Format +44 (0)1225 442244 ext 5115 rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org www.linuxformat.co.uk ------------------------------- Visit the LXF team blog at www.linuxformat.co.uk/blog This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please reply to this email and then delete it. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Future. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Future accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Future may regularly and randomly monitor outgoing and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunications systems. By replying to this email you give your consent to such monitoring. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 22:17:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:17:57 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <87d5igol6u.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <87d5igol6u.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060125221757.GM18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 10:50:34PM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > What version of the package do you have? 4.7.5 as it comes in Debian 3.1. > Mine stops at the same point as when run with -h. IOW, I get the > snippet of output that tell me to run "whois -h whois.nic.or.kr" > and when I do that manually, I indeed get the specific info for > the smaller IP block, but the client doesn't do it automatically. > > I did. :-( I know better than go ask here without any research, believe > me. It seems to handle exactly 2 types of referrals, and this one > (embedded within "remarks:" lines) is not one of them. Hmm. I get this: rceng02:/debian/dists/sandbox/webmin# whois 61.100.186.185 % [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html inetnum: 61.96.0.0 - 61.111.255.255 netname: KRNIC-KR descr: KRNIC descr: Korea Network Information Center country: KR admin-c: HM127-AP tech-c: HM127-AP remarks: ****************************************** remarks: KRNIC is the National Internet Registry remarks: in Korea under APNIC. If you would like to remarks: find assignment information in detail remarks: please refer to the KRNIC Whois DB remarks: http://whois.nic.or.kr/english/index.html remarks: ****************************************** mnt-by: APNIC-HM mnt-lower: MNT-KRNIC-AP changed: hostmaster-kQgggeSMbpBeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org 20010321 changed: hostmaster-kQgggeSMbpBeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org 20010606 status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE source: APNIC person: Host Master address: 11F, KTF B/D, 1321-11, Seocho2-Dong, Seocho-Gu, address: Seoul, Korea, 137-857 country: KR phone: +82-2-2186-4500 fax-no: +82-2-2186-4496 e-mail: hostmaster-RJnSGxyxNIZQFI55V6+gNQ at public.gmane.org nic-hdl: HM127-AP mnt-by: MNT-KRNIC-AP changed: hostmaster-RJnSGxyxNIZQFI55V6+gNQ at public.gmane.org 20020507 source: APNIC inetnum: 61.100.186.0 - 61.100.186.255 netname: GNG-IDC-KONETI-KR descr: HOSTWAY descr: Bundang-gu, Seongnam-si, Gyeonggi descr: 343-1 descr: 463-070 country: KR admin-c: HP22-KR tech-c: HP22-KR remarks: This IP address space has been allocated to KRNIC. remarks: For more information, using KRNIC Whois Database remarks: whois -h whois.nic.or.kr mnt-by: MNT-KRNIC-AP remarks: This information has been partially mirrored by APNIC from remarks: KRNIC. To obtain more specific information, please use the remarks: KRNIC whois server at whois.krnic.net. changed: hostmaster-RJnSGxyxNIZQFI55V6+gNQ at public.gmane.org source: KRNIC person: Heungbae Park descr: HOSTWAY descr: Bundang-gu, Seongnam-si, Gyeonggi descr: 343-1 descr: 463-070 country: KR phone: +82-2-2105-6121 fax-no: +82-2-575-8320 e-mail: abuse-hrtb9jm4Du8+MW+wcPHoAA at public.gmane.org nic-hdl: HP22-KR mnt-by: MNT-KRNIC-AP changed: hostmaster-RJnSGxyxNIZQFI55V6+gNQ at public.gmane.org source: KRNIC Hmm, maybe that isn't fully resolved now that I look at it more carefully. I wonder if the source: KRNIC line would be a valid place to look for where to continue. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 22:23:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:23:23 -0500 Subject: Linksys BEFW11S4 Router In-Reply-To: <20060125155120.GA32454-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060125155120.GA32454@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060125222323.GN18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 10:51:20AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > I recently got hold of an older LinkSys BEFW11S4 router. I've updated > the firmware to the latest available version and generally it all checks > out. However, it seems to have a persistent problem in connecting to the > Net -- the connection will get dropped, apparently without prior cause. > > Before I consign it to the trash, I thought I'd ask: Since these little > blue boxes run embedded Linux, is there any way to replace the internals > with some open firmware? I've googled a bit but can only find info about > the WRT54GS, the big brother of the unit I've got. > > Any suggestions or ideas welcomed. It's very annoying -- I have another > LinkSys unit that is completely rock-solid, and the pesky problem with > this one seems like such a little thing... <> Some linksys boxes run linux. Some do not. Just because the WRT54G[S] does, doesn't mean the older crappier units do. I don't know what they run. I have never heard of anyone putting linux on one of the old units though. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 25 23:52:06 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:52:06 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) Message-ID: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> Hey All, I'm having a hell of a time tracking down the source for Sendmail 8.6.0. I've tried the sendmail.org ftp site, a billion other ftp sites, and ftp search engines. I've googled for it, no luck. I believe the file I'm looking for is called sendmail.8.6.0.tgz (or maybe sendmail.8.6.tgz). Does anyone have a copy that they could provide me with? I'd greatly appreciate it. Any other ancient versions before that (8.5, 8.4 branches, etc.) would be greatly appreciated too. Cheers, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 01:14:48 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:14:48 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <43D80F26.8070501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060126011448.GA4824@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 06:52:06PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm having a hell of a time tracking down the source for Sendmail 8.6.0. > I've tried the sendmail.org ftp site, a billion other ftp sites, and ftp > search engines. I've googled for it, no luck. > > I believe the file I'm looking for is called sendmail.8.6.0.tgz (or > maybe sendmail.8.6.tgz). Does anyone have a copy that they could provide > me with? I'd greatly appreciate it. > > Any other ancient versions before that (8.5, 8.4 branches, etc.) would > be greatly appreciated too. ftp://ftp.cert.dfn.de/pub/tools/net/sendmail/past-releases/ There are patches, but can't find the tarball to which you apply them. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 01:21:15 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:21:15 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <20060126011448.GA4824-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126011448.GA4824@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <43D8240B.10903@rogers.com> > ftp://ftp.cert.dfn.de/pub/tools/net/sendmail/past-releases/ > There are patches, but can't find the tarball to which you apply them. And now you know my pain ;) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 01:39:18 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:39:18 -0500 Subject: disgustingly offtopic: energy shopping In-Reply-To: <43D6D2B4.6040200-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43CFD823.6040408@telly.org> <20060119182608.GA2712@node1.opengeometry.net> <43CFDEB0.1060700@telly.org> <20060119194518.GA3121@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f0601191151i70c7b293w5c1672869eb60e96@mail.gmail.com> <20060124194203.GD18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43D6D2B4.6040200@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43D82846.8090609@georgetown.wehave.net> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Anyone long on gas futures for this winter has lost badly; the expected > price dropped with the mild winter we're having. Yup and the week after prices really tanked I got a letter telling me that my new price was $0.41 per whatever (up from low 30s) ... doh! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 04:48:40 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:48:40 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite Pro M40 Message-ID: <20060126044840.GA5263@node1.opengeometry.net> TigerDirect.ca is selling Toshiba Satellite Pro M40 for $799.99. Specs are - Celeron M380, 1.6GHz - ATI Radeon Xpress 200M video, 1280x800 screen, 1920x1440 external - Realtek ALC250 sound - Atheros 802.11/bg wifi - 10/100 lan (unknown chipset) Can anyone share his/her experience with this one? My main concern is ATI video. It sounds like Windows kind of things. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 05:05:56 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:05:56 -0500 Subject: Toshiba satellite Pro M 40 Message-ID: <43D858B4.6080808@rogers.com> Toshiba has a Linux portal with installation reports on various models. http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/index.htm John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 06:00:30 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:00:30 -0500 Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... Message-ID: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have a PCI Netgear WG311v3 in one of my boxes, and I *should* be able to get it working with ndiswrapper, but something's not working. I installed the driver with ndsiwrapper, and it said that it installed the driver and that the hardware is present. Goody ;-) However... When I run iwconfig, I see three interfaces - lo, eth0 and sit0. The loopback isn't helping, eth0 is a Realtek ethernet card, and I'm not doing any IPv6, so sit0 is doing me no good at all. As far as I can see, dmesg makes no mention of the card, which worries me, but I am not the most clueful, so I have appended the contents of dmesg to the end of this message. lspci -vv has this to say about the device, so I'm pretty sure it's there: --snip-- 0000:01:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd.: Unknown device 1faa (rev 03) Subsystem: Netgear: Unknown device 6b00 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- SERR- From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 06:10:37 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:10:37 -0500 Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... In-Reply-To: <20060126060030.GA8252-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060126061037.GB8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Ah drat, I forgot the dmesg output. Here it is: Linux version 2.6.8-2-386 (horms-gUg1To0LmPGMZyfBPsSvIYGqVvUbtQeLQH7oEaQurus at public.gmane.org) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)) #1 Tue Aug 16 12:46:35 UTC 2005 BIOS-provided physical RAM map: BIOS-e820: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009fc00 (usable) BIOS-e820: 000000000009fc00 - 00000000000a0000 (reserved) BIOS-e820: 00000000000e0000 - 0000000000100000 (reserved) BIOS-e820: 0000000000100000 - 0000000017fc0000 (usable) BIOS-e820: 0000000017fc0000 - 0000000017ff8000 (ACPI data) BIOS-e820: 0000000017ff8000 - 0000000018000000 (ACPI NVS) BIOS-e820: 00000000ffb80000 - 00000000ffc00000 (reserved) BIOS-e820: 00000000fff00000 - 0000000100000000 (reserved) 383MB LOWMEM available. On node 0 totalpages: 98240 DMA zone: 4096 pages, LIFO batch:1 Normal zone: 94144 pages, LIFO batch:16 HighMem zone: 0 pages, LIFO batch:1 DMI 2.3 present. ACPI disabled because your bios is from 2000 and too old You can enable it with acpi=force Built 1 zonelists Kernel command line: root=/dev/hda1 ro Local APIC disabled by BIOS -- reenabling. Found and enabled local APIC! Initializing CPU#0 PID hash table entries: 2048 (order 11: 16384 bytes) Detected 863.940 MHz processor. Using tsc for high-res timesource Console: colour VGA+ 80x25 Dentry cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 6, 262144 bytes) Inode-cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 5, 131072 bytes) Memory: 381948k/392960k available (1337k kernel code, 10236k reserved, 732k data, 204k init, 0k highmem) Checking if this processor honours the WP bit even in supervisor mode... Ok. Calibrating delay loop... 1708.03 BogoMIPS Security Scaffold v1.0.0 initialized Mount-cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) CPU: After generic identify, caps: 0383fbff 00000000 00000000 00000000 CPU: After vendor identify, caps: 0383fbff 00000000 00000000 00000000 CPU: L1 I cache: 16K, L1 D cache: 16K CPU: L2 cache: 256K CPU: After all inits, caps: 0383fbff 00000000 00000000 00000040 CPU: Intel Pentium III (Coppermine) stepping 03 Enabling fast FPU save and restore... done. Enabling unmasked SIMD FPU exception support... done. Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK. Checking for popad bug... OK. enabled ExtINT on CPU#0 ESR value before enabling vector: 00000000 ESR value after enabling vector: 00000000 Using local APIC timer interrupts. calibrating APIC timer ... ..... CPU clock speed is 863.0735 MHz. ..... host bus clock speed is 132.0882 MHz. checking if image is initramfs...it isn't (ungzip failed); looks like an initrd Freeing initrd memory: 4216k freed NET: Registered protocol family 16 EISA bus registered PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfda95, last bus=2 PCI: Using configuration type 1 mtrr: v2.0 (20020519) ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326 ACPI: Interpreter disabled. Linux Plug and Play Support v0.97 (c) Adam Belay PnPBIOS: Scanning system for PnP BIOS support... PnPBIOS: Found PnP BIOS installation structure at 0xc00f2770 PnPBIOS: PnP BIOS version 1.0, entry 0xf0000:0x202a, dseg 0xf0000 pnp: 00:09: ioport range 0x4d0-0x4d1 has been reserved pnp: 00:09: ioport range 0xcf8-0xcff could not be reserved pnp: 00:0b: ioport range 0x800-0x87f has been reserved PnPBIOS: 20 nodes reported by PnP BIOS; 20 recorded by driver PCI: Probing PCI hardware PCI: Probing PCI hardware (bus 00) PCI: Transparent bridge - 0000:00:1e.0 PCI: Using IRQ router PIIX/ICH [8086/2440] at 0000:00:1f.0 VFS: Disk quotas dquot_6.5.1 Dquot-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order 0, 4096 bytes) devfs: 2004-01-31 Richard Gooch (rgooch-r1x6VkxMR+00zabcByZE4g at public.gmane.org) devfs: boot_options: 0x0 Initializing Cryptographic API isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... isapnp: No Plug & Play device found Serial: 8250/16550 driver $Revision: 1.90 $ 54 ports, IRQ sharing enabled ttyS0 at I/O 0x3f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 8192K size 1024 blocksize serio: i8042 AUX port at 0x60,0x64 irq 12 serio: i8042 KBD port at 0x60,0x64 irq 1 EISA: Probing bus 0 at eisa0 EISA: Detected 0 cards. NET: Registered protocol family 2 IP: routing cache hash table of 4096 buckets, 32Kbytes TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32768 bind 65536) NET: Registered protocol family 8 NET: Registered protocol family 20 RAMDISK: cramfs filesystem found at block 0 RAMDISK: Loading 4216 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\done. VFS: Mounted root (cramfs filesystem) readonly. Freeing unused kernel memory: 204k freed vesafb: probe of vesafb0 failed with error -6 NET: Registered protocol family 1 Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00alpha2 ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx ICH2: IDE controller at PCI slot 0000:00:1f.1 ICH2: chipset revision 2 ICH2: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later ide0: BM-DMA at 0xffa0-0xffa7, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio ide1: BM-DMA at 0xffa8-0xffaf, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:DMA hda: Maxtor 52049H3, ATA DISK drive Using anticipatory io scheduler ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 hda: max request size: 128KiB hda: 39882528 sectors (20419 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=39566/16/63, UDMA(100) /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: p1 p2 hdd: GCR-8523B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Adding 987988k swap on /dev/hda2. Priority:-1 extents:1 EXT3 FS on hda1, internal journal hdd: ATAPI 52X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache, DMA Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.20 Capability LSM initialized Linux agpgart interface v0.100 (c) Dave Jones 8139too Fast Ethernet driver 0.9.27 PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 0000:01:0a.0 eth0: RealTek RTL8139 at 0xd800, 00:e0:4c:00:de:39, IRQ 11 eth0: Identified 8139 chip type 'RTL-8100B/8139D' usbcore: registered new driver usbfs usbcore: registered new driver hub USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v2.2 PCI: Found IRQ 10 for device 0000:00:1f.2 uhci_hcd 0000:00:1f.2: Intel Corp. 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #1) PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.2 to 64 uhci_hcd 0000:00:1f.2: irq 10, io base 0000ef80 uhci_hcd 0000:00:1f.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 1-0:1.0: 2 ports detected agpgart: Detected an Intel i815 Chipset, but could not find the secondary device. agpgart: Detected an Intel i815 Chipset. agpgart: Maximum main memory to use for agp memory: 321M agpgart: AGP aperture is 64M @ 0xf8000000 cpci_hotplug: CompactPCI Hot Plug Core version: 0.2 pci_hotplug: PCI Hot Plug PCI Core version: 0.5 pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x1001 shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x1001 hw_random hardware driver 1.0.0 loaded pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x1001 shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x1001 8139cp: 10/100 PCI Ethernet driver v1.2 (Mar 22, 2004) Real Time Clock Driver v1.12 input: PC Speaker parport: PnPBIOS parport detected. parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 3 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA] inserting floppy driver for 2.6.8-2-386 Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077 eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x45E1 NET: Registered protocol family 10 Disabled Privacy Extensions on device c02cc960(lo) IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver eth0: no IPv6 routers present -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 12:14:59 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:14:59 -0500 Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... In-Reply-To: <20060126060030.GA8252-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200601260714.59462.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Thursday 26 January 2006 01:00, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a PCI Netgear WG311v3 in one of my boxes, and I *should* be able > to get it working with ndiswrapper, but something's not working. I > installed the driver with ndsiwrapper, and it said that it installed the > driver and that the hardware is present. Goody ;-) However... > > When I run iwconfig, I see three interfaces - lo, eth0 and sit0. The > loopback isn't helping, eth0 is a Realtek ethernet card, and I'm not > doing any IPv6, so sit0 is doing me no good at all. > > As far as I can see, dmesg makes no mention of the card, which worries > me, but I am not the most clueful, so I have appended the contents of > dmesg to the end of this message. lspci -vv has this to say about the > device, so I'm pretty sure it's there: > > --snip-- > > 0000:01:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd.: Unknown > device 1faa (rev 03) Subsystem: Netgear: Unknown device 6b00 > Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- > Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- > DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- SERR- Line Size: 0x08 (32 bytes) > Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 3 > Region 0: Memory at fd9f0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Region 1: Memory at fd9e0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 > Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1- D2- AuxCurrent=0mA > PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- > > --snip-- > > What do I need to try to get this interface to show up as a networking > interface? Any pointers are appreciated, thanks. I have found lately that by simply updating the pci.ids file ( PCI Identifications ) it will often fix wireless card and other hardware woes, due to hardware newer than the kernel you are running. This will often get rid of "unknown" in the output from lspci. http://pciids.sourceforge.net/ Save your old file first cp /var/lib/misc/pci.ids /var/lib/misc/pci.ids.OLD then move the new file into place & reboot cp //pci.ids /var/lib/misc/pci.ids -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 14:03:55 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:03:55 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <87hd7solii.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060124192734.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <87hd7solii.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D8D6CB.1000300@georgetown.wehave.net> Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Lennart> I also VERY much hope it stays this way. Many problems have > Lennart> been caused by people trying to automatically harvest contact > Lennart> info from whois to spam people. The harder that is to > Lennart> automate, the better. > > Unfortunately, that's exactly what I am supposed to do, for a > legitimate purpose (part of which is _fighting spam_, in fact). I did something similar a few years ago. A perl filter in my .procmailrc: * check if it's a virus with clamav * if virus read all of the received headers * step through received headers in reverse order finding first legitimate looking mail relay (i.e. routeable IP) * do PTR lookups on mail relays until one with valid DNS shows up * verify that an MX record exists for found domain * chop of leading parts of domain until left with domain that has a valid MX record * email abuse at domain informing them that someone on their network is sending viruses and giving them a copy of all the original email headers I would love to have relied on whois but I saw 2 problems with it. The one you're talking about (lack of consistency in data) and also the fact that a lot of ISPs do show who specific subnets are delegated to ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 14:20:40 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:20:40 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <43D80F26.8070501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 06:52:06PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm having a hell of a time tracking down the source for Sendmail 8.6.0. > I've tried the sendmail.org ftp site, a billion other ftp sites, and ftp > search engines. I've googled for it, no luck. > > I believe the file I'm looking for is called sendmail.8.6.0.tgz (or > maybe sendmail.8.6.tgz). Does anyone have a copy that they could provide > me with? I'd greatly appreciate it. > > Any other ancient versions before that (8.5, 8.4 branches, etc.) would > be greatly appreciated too. It looks like the old archives at berkeley only contain 8.7 and newer, along with a note about how 8.6.x should not be run on any network connected computer in the world. Seems like good reasons not to even keep the sources publicly available. They have a .obsolete directory, but it is not public access. The note is: There is NO 8.6.* patch for CA-96.20. 8.6 is not supported, not secure, and should not be run on any network-connected machine. Seems like good cause to remove it from the server. If you have a very good reason for needing that old junk, maybe someone at berkeley can help. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 14:23:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:23:28 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite Pro M40 In-Reply-To: <20060126044840.GA5263-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060126044840.GA5263@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20060126142328.GP18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 11:48:40PM -0500, William Park wrote: > TigerDirect.ca is selling Toshiba Satellite Pro M40 for $799.99. Specs > are > - Celeron M380, 1.6GHz > - ATI Radeon Xpress 200M video, 1280x800 screen, 1920x1440 external > - Realtek ALC250 sound > - Atheros 802.11/bg wifi > - 10/100 lan (unknown chipset) > > Can anyone share his/her experience with this one? My main concern is > ATI video. It sounds like Windows kind of things. The ATI chipset is a bigger worry. So far a lot of people have had big problems getting linux working on those. The video can also be a real pain. ATI has a reputation for writing bad drivers. Nothing wrong with the hardware itself in general, but that doens't help if you can't use it. For a celeron machine, you are a lot better of with a full centrino system, since intel chipsets are supported and work, and even intel's wireless has a lot of linux development work taking place. They seem to actually care a bit about linux support. I personally would not buy one. And that's not just because I am not a laptop fan. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 14:53:13 2006 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:53:13 -0500 Subject: Mandatory Skills :) In-Reply-To: <20060124195554.GH18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027099E50@jack.pcrepairs.com> <20060124195554.GH18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <22318ee50601260653j28ac796ch17c8bb85d707510c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > So someone has been using windows and unix, java, vb script, and com, on > apache and iis, and dealt with firewalls, linux and sql and started > using html when it just came out? > > Someone is out of their minds. :) > > Some 'OR' options in there would be good. After all who would use both > IIS and apache at the same time. Same for the other combinations. There are quite a few heterogeneous environments out there. For one of my clients I'm supporting Win2K and Win2003, HP-UX and OpenVMS. The Windows boxes are running either IIS or Apache, depending on the application. There's a lot of Java. The databases are mainly SQL Server and Oracle with some DB2. It's the end product of years of mergers, acquisitions and pet projects of former CIOs. //mts -- "Playing safe is only playing." Fortune Cookie from Simon's Wok -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 17:17:49 2006 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:17:49 -0500 Subject: IOA library open source project needs some help with a Tcl/Tk on Windows HowTo Message-ID: <20060126171329.99CD75E0D@outbox.allstream.net> The IOA network appliance is produced by a local startup in Kitchener. The IO Anywhere group recognized early on that all their enabling libraries (C and Tcl/Tk so far) should be licenced under either the LGPL or a straight public domain licence. The IOA library project, which I facilitate, is the result of that initiative. Have a look at the Windows HowTo on the IOA library project site: http://www.allstream.net/~fcsoft/ioanywhere The How To is a work in progress so it may be rough around the edges for now. Any contribution you can make to smooth out those rough edges is welcome. Besides the Tcl/Tk demos are pretty cool and they work virtually unchanged on a Linux box as well. bob PS. Unfortunately, I have no financial stake in the IOA company. I know the founder as a curling and golfing buddy and have collaborated with him on several programming contracts over the years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 17:19:15 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:19:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... In-Reply-To: <20060126060030.GA8252-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a PCI Netgear WG311v3 in one of my boxes, and I *should* be able > to get it working with ndiswrapper, but something's not working. I > installed the driver with ndsiwrapper, and it said that it installed the > driver and that the hardware is present. Goody ;-) However... > > When I run iwconfig, I see three interfaces - lo, eth0 and sit0. The Did you install the MS-Windows XP driver rather than another version? I've seen behaviour like that which you are describing when an MS-Windows 2000 driver was loaded instead. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 19:16:50 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:16:50 -0500 Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... In-Reply-To: References: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060126191650.GA6152@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 12:19:15PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: >On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >>I have a PCI Netgear WG311v3 in one of my boxes, and I *should* be able >>to get it working with ndiswrapper, but something's not working. I >>installed the driver with ndsiwrapper, and it said that it installed the >>driver and that the hardware is present. Goody ;-) However... >> >>When I run iwconfig, I see three interfaces - lo, eth0 and sit0. The > >Did you install the MS-Windows XP driver rather than another version? >I've seen behaviour like that which you are describing when an MS-Windows >2000 driver was loaded instead. That's good thought, but unfortunately, I do have the right driver installed. I updated the pci.ids file (which on Debian lives in /usr/share/misc/) too, but that produced no change. Disappointing. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 19:53:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:53:48 -0500 Subject: Trying to get a wireless card working... In-Reply-To: <20060126191650.GA6152-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060126060030.GA8252@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060126191650.GA6152@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060126195348.GQ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 02:16:50PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > That's good thought, but unfortunately, I do have the right driver > installed. I updated the pci.ids file (which on Debian lives in > /usr/share/misc/) too, but that produced no change. Disappointing. Well one message I found said that ndiswrapper with the win2k driver found on the CD they got worked for them. http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gt5CpfDcbikJ:kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-p-82352.html+WG311+v3+linux&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=6 It is apparently a marvell, so good luck getting an open source driver anytime soon. The v2 and v1 seem to just work with linux in general (atheos chipset on one of them, and prism54 on the other I think). Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 21:06:43 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:06:43 -0500 Subject: DNS question Message-ID: <43D939E3.5000507@alteeve.com> Hi all, I'm a little stumped by a problem I am having... Is there something special you need to do when adding a DNS entry for a domain to specify a certain sub domain as an NS server? I'm trying to create: ns1.domain.com ns2.domain.com I tried adding: ns1 A 111.222.33.45 ns2 A 111.222.33.46 and then: ns1 NS 111.222.33.45 ns2 NS 111.222.33.46 But both times my registrar refused to recognize 'ns{1|2}.domain.com' as valid name servers. I did make sure that the time to live had expired between updates, by the way. Is there something I am missing to "properly" register a domain/IP address as a name server? I've got BIND9 running and answering queries properly so unless I've missed something, I am stumped. Let me know is any more details will be helpful. Much appreciated! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU; The Linux Experience, Back Up Main Project Page: http://tle-bu.org Community Forum: http://forum.tle-bu.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 21:18:51 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:18:51 -0500 Subject: Linksys BEFW11S4 Router In-Reply-To: <1138205373.6324.52.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060125155120.GA32454@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <1138205373.6324.52.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <20060126211851.GA3747@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 11:09:33AM -0500, interlug-list wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 10:51, Peter King wrote: > > I recently got hold of an older LinkSys BEFW11S4 router. [ ... ] > > Open it up and see if the serial port pads are there (as found in the > wrt54g series [1] ) If so, do the serial port hack. Connect to the > console and watch the logs for clues. I popped it open... alas, no pads available for the serial port hack. I just tried downgrading the firmware for my version (version 4) to see if that improves reliability. Lots of gripes about this version here and there on the net. No information about whether I could load Linux on it. Were I more of a hacker I'd mount the firmware releases via loopback and poke around, but so far I haven't figured out how to do it. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 21:56:53 2006 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:56:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS question Message-ID: <200601262156.k0QLurjZ007694@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | Is there something special you need to do when adding a DNS entry for | a domain to specify a certain sub domain as an NS server? I'm trying to | create: You typically have to register ns[12].domain.com with the domain registry as name servers in that domain. And then other domains are allowed to refer to those NS in their registrations. In the Tucows/opensrs interface, there's a menu item called something like "publish name servers" - when you're in the page where you define nameservers, there's a link at the bottom for adding nameservers in the current domain. Other domain regsitrars will have something similar. Hope that helps - cheers John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 21:57:37 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:57:37 -0500 Subject: DNS question In-Reply-To: <43D939E3.5000507-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D939E3.5000507@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <17af13780601261357m2975cc02s25bc43b640c56698@mail.gmail.com> > Hi all, > > I'm a little stumped by a problem I am having... > > Is there something special you need to do when adding a DNS entry for > a domain to specify a certain sub domain as an NS server? I'm trying to > create: > > ns1.domain.com > ns2.domain.com > > I tried adding: > > ns1 A 111.222.33.45 > ns2 A 111.222.33.46 > > and then: > > ns1 NS 111.222.33.45 > ns2 NS 111.222.33.46 Are ns1 and ns2 supposed to answer queries about domain.com? In that case, the last two lines should be domain.com. NS 111.222.33.45 domain.com. NS 111.222.33.46 Also, these must be repeated in the zone file that delegates the subdomain to you. -- "Political systems do not deal easily with long term threats, even if they have a probability of 100%" James Schlesinger, a former director of the CIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 22:02:56 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:02:56 -0500 Subject: DNS question In-Reply-To: <17af13780601261357m2975cc02s25bc43b640c56698-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43D939E3.5000507@alteeve.com> <17af13780601261357m2975cc02s25bc43b640c56698@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17af13780601261402n300a14bdj95fd30a9bb6dc0f8@mail.gmail.com> > Are ns1 and ns2 supposed to answer queries about domain.com? In that case, > the last two lines should be > > domain.com. NS 111.222.33.45 > domain.com. NS 111.222.33.46 > > Also, these must be repeated in the zone file that delegates the > subdomain to you. Oops, got it all wrong. should be: domain.com. IN NS ns1.domain.com. domain.com. IN NS ns2.domain.com. and also ns1 IN A 111.222.33.45 ns2 IN A 111.222.33.46 HTH -- "Political systems do not deal easily with long term threats, even if they have a probability of 100%" James Schlesinger, a former director of the CIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 26 21:17:59 2006 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:17:59 -0500 Subject: DNS question In-Reply-To: <43D939E3.5000507-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43D939E3.5000507@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <43D93C87.1000208@cogeco.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > > I'm a little stumped by a problem I am having... > > Is there something special you need to do when adding a DNS entry for > a domain to specify a certain sub domain as an NS server? I'm trying to > create: > > ns1.domain.com > ns2.domain.com > > I tried adding: > > ns1 A 111.222.33.45 > ns2 A 111.222.33.46 > > and then: > > ns1 NS 111.222.33.45 > ns2 NS 111.222.33.46 > > But both times my registrar refused to recognize 'ns{1|2}.domain.com' > as valid name servers. I did make sure that the time to live had expired > between updates, by the way. > > Is there something I am missing to "properly" register a domain/IP > address as a name server? I've got BIND9 running and answering queries > properly so unless I've missed something, I am stumped. Are you positive that ns1.domain.com and ns2.domain.com are authoritative for domain.com? Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Phone: (416) 863-2126 CNW Group Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 03:20:01 2006 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:20:01 -0500 Subject: Quota on NFS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi all, > Just wondering, when a NFS client try to access a shared NFS file > system, the server see it either as a user "nobody" or "root" > depending on the configuration - options inserted on fstab. Now, to > enforce quotas, you need a better user name, nobody and root isn't > going to cut it as its too general. How does the rquota get this > information? Not true. NFS works entirely on UID/GID from client to server. The only account that gets mapped to user "nobody" on the server is root on the client. Every other UID/GID on the client gets mapped to the same UID/GID on the server . This is also why users and UIDs (and groups and GIDs) need to be synchronized for NFS to work. If they are out of sync; then you get all sorts of permission problems. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 03:44:50 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:44:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <43D8D6CB.1000300-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060124192734.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <87hd7solii.fsf@gmail.com> <43D8D6CB.1000300@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <87d5ie1gi6.fsf@gmail.com> Fraser> I did something similar a few years ago. [...] Fraser> I would love to have relied on whois but I saw 2 problems with Fraser> it. The one you're talking about (lack of consistency in data) Fraser> and also the fact that a lot of ISPs do show who specific Fraser> subnets are delegated to ... Here's what we're trying to ape^H^H^Happroximate: http://www.senderbase.org/ http://www.trustedsource.org/ (particularly the first one). Any idea how they decide what's the same "network" or "ISP"? -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 06:06:01 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:06:01 +0000 Subject: Linix :) Message-ID: As I am actively on job search web-sites these days, I find some funny things:- Here's someone who needs a System Administrator for 'Linix', is it a new OS ? :) ------ -Perform systems administration/support functions for Linix or Windows environment/ Monitor on-going operation for smooth performance -Minimum 5 years experience in systems administration in a Linix or Windows environment -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 07:14:21 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:14:21 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <20060126142040.GO18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <43D9C84D.3040403@rogers.com> > There is NO 8.6.* patch for CA-96.20. 8.6 is not supported, not secure, > and should not be run on any network-connected machine. Oh, there's 8.6 machines out there... but I think running a Sun-ified version of sendmail, so perhaps not quite the same thing :) Let's hope not the same thing! I came across that .obsolete directory too; bummed out as it seemed like a really good hit. > If you have a very good reason for needing that old junk, maybe someone > at berkeley can help. It's work related - we do a thorough job, and that means tracking down god-awful old versions of software frequently. Makes for a good dose of nostalgia too - like the good old days, when you tweaked makefiles and headers manually, piped files to m4... until ./configure scripts came and made us all lazy :) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 14:32:24 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:32:24 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <43D9C84D.3040403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43D9C84D.3040403@rogers.com> Message-ID: Byron Sonne wrote: >> There is NO 8.6.* patch for CA-96.20. 8.6 is not supported, not secure, >> and should not be run on any network-connected machine. > > Oh, there's 8.6 machines out there... but I think running a Sun-ified > version of sendmail, so perhaps not quite the same thing :) Let's hope > not the same thing! > > I came across that .obsolete directory too; bummed out as it seemed like > a really good hit. You might check some of the P2P networks. Someone must have a copy lying around in their shared directory. Frostwire and aMule could be your friend(s). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 14:50:29 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:50:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Canadian Record Label Fights RIAA Lawsuits Message-ID: <43DA3335.70007@pppoe.ca> /Nettwerk Music Group, Canada's leading privately owned record label has joined the fight against the RIAA's strategy of individual lawsuits. Nettwerk CEO Terry McBride says 'Suing music fans is not the solution, it's the problem. Litigation is not "artist development." Litigation is a deterrent to creativity and passion and it is hurting the business I love. The current actions of the RIAA are not in my artists' best interests.'" http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/01/27/0540233.shtml http://www.michaelgeist.ca is being slashdotted :-) / -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 15:15:44 2006 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:15:44 -0500 Subject: i386 anyone? Message-ID: Hello all, I'm working in Ryerson's networking department, and we're getting rid of unused equipment & moving to a new room. I'm not available to give out a list of hardware by any means, but this particular unit is a bit of a collector's item :D We will not be salvaging any of the parts because they're close to two decades old, which is why I've been able to make this one available. here are the specs on the chip itself: http://www.cpu-collection.de/?l0=co&l1=Intel&l2=i386%20DX#A80386DX-33IV,i386DXlogo,%A9'85 I can't find any identifying labels on the motherboard unfortunately, but it is in full working condition, PC's are just not built to last these days ;-) . There is a FULL 8MB of RAM inside too!!! The motherboard is an old one, with hand-soldered through-board connections, and I believe that the board only has two layers - top & bottom. The case includes: four DRAM SIMMS - 2MB each an ISA network card - half duplex ethernet an ISA DB25 / DB15 card a DB9 serial and DB25 serial interface (for some reason they're both labelled as COM ports??) a 3.5" AT IDE disk - 340 MB a VGA graphics card AT keyboard interface - minus the keyboard a 3 1/2" floppy disk drive - not sure for what capacity a 5 1/4" floppy disk drive - 1.2 MB - with a bunch of disks Does anyone need something for their museum or antique shop ? Maybe for some sort of modern art ? I will be listening for 24 hrs only, so unless I get a response by 10 am tomorrow it is trash ! Also, I'm not going to do any part-swapping, so the box is available as all or nothing. ~/Chris ______________________________ Christopher Friedt Ryerson University Computing & Communication Services (416) 979-5000 x6831 chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 15:49:49 2006 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:49:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: How to turn d-link wireless router to a switch? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060127154949.1822.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> All, Anybody can tell me how to turn a dlink wireless router to a wireless switch? I just want to use the dlink to work as wireless switch in my local lan not as a router? Current the dlink wireless works as router between my linux server and my client latop, I can not find a way to rlogin in to my linux server form my lan. Thank you very much! hui -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 16:46:41 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:46:41 -0500 Subject: whois In-Reply-To: <87d5ie1gi6.fsf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3mlkxa8wo7.fsf@ianunix.borderware.com> <20060124183813.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060124192734.GB18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <87hd7solii.fsf@gmail.com> <43D8D6CB.1000300@georgetown.wehave.net> <87d5ie1gi6.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43DA4E71.6090408@georgetown.wehave.net> Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Here's what we're trying to ape^H^H^Happroximate: > > http://www.senderbase.org/ > http://www.trustedsource.org/ > > (particularly the first one). Any idea how they decide what's the same > "network" or "ISP"? By domain I expect they're just chopping off whatever@ from the email address. By address it doesn't look like they're doing anything special. For example the IP address 58.20.176.24 is currently showing, they show neither "Host" or "Network Owner". So ... * host is a simple DNS based reverse lookup * network owner is a simple whois, very simple because I can do better with Debian's whois ... ~$ whois 58.20.176.24 % [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html inetnum: 58.20.0.0 - 58.20.255.255 netname: CNCGROUP-HN descr: CNC Group HuNan province network descr: China Network Communications Group Corporation descr: No.156,Fu-Xing-Men-Nei Street, descr: Beijing 100031 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 17:58:44 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:58:44 -0500 Subject: framebuffer mode on laptops Message-ID: Hi, Can someone tell me what framebuffer mode is, and is it necessary for running on laptops? Thanks for any info. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 18:14:39 2006 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:14:39 -0500 Subject: framebuffer mode on laptops Message-ID: No, it's not necessary at all. One of the primary benefits to using it is to have a nice graphical boot-up screen, with a colour console and splash image. But who needs that? You can have X start immediately after modules are loaded anyway. Check out this link for the kernel options you should disable (this page shows how to enable, so just do the opposite) to get rid of the kernel FB support. http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Framebuffer:Bootsplash:Grubsplash#High_resolution_framebuffer_.26_bootsplash.21 Most (all?) laptops will just boot up with a VGA resolution if the FB module is configured out of the kernel. ~/C -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 18:37:28 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:37:28 -0500 Subject: CIDR - networking In-Reply-To: <441F94C8-F52B-4931-ABFA-6BB1792090F3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <001101c615e5$e29e0a20$81fbc645@unipc> <43C45444.1060303@rogers.com> <441F94C8-F52B-4931-ABFA-6BB1792090F3@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: Hi, This is from fedora 4 /etc/cups/cupsd.conf file # BrowseAddress: specifies a broadcast address to be used. By # default browsing information is not sent! # # Note: HP-UX does not properly handle broadcast unless you have a # Class A, B, C, or D netmask (i.e. no CIDR support). # # Note: Using the "global" broadcast address (255.255.255.255) will # activate a Linux demand-dial link with the default configuration. # If you have a LAN as well as the dial-up link, use the LAN's # broadcast address. # It looks like we still have systems that are not CIDR compliant after all. Really surprising. William On 10/01/06, Nick Davey wrote: > Older protocols that were classful, such as RIP v1 did not transmit > the subnet mask with the IP address, however there were still subnet > masks of 255.0.0.0, 255.255.0.0, etc. > > On 10-Jan-06, at 7:41 PM, James Knott wrote: > > > Joseph wrote: > >> The class should never be determined by the mask but by the range > >> in which > >> the ip address falls. > > > > I thought that the old class addresses didn't have a sub net mask and > > it's that SNM, the enables classless addresses. That is, no mask, > > no CIDR. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 18:47:45 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:47:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: "Linux Format" Message-ID: <20060127184745.21160.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As many of you saw, on Tuesday Rebecca Smalley of "Linux Format" approached us about doing an article on GTALug for their magazine. Well, a few minutes ago I e-mailed Ms. Smalley an article with pictures about GTALug. A LOT I would have like to touch on, but as the word limit was 250 words (and yes as submitted the article was slightly longer than that). The pictures I e-mailed off were two taken at the last NewTLUG meeting (the only meeting I could do given the short notice/tight deadline), and one picture of "Pho Hung". The NewTLUG pictures are: - Herb and Sacha before the start of the meeting. - William, Evan, Herb and Sacha after the meeting So, fingers crossed in a few months we will be a bit better known to a predominately UK audience :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 19:28:22 2006 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 27 Jan 2006 14:28:22 -0500 Subject: Linix :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Muhammad Imran" writes: > As I am actively on job search web-sites these days, I find some funny > things:- > > Here's someone who needs a System Administrator for 'Linix', is it a new OS ? > :) That's nothing. We got a fax spam from a company with a one page ad on all of their support services and hardware offerings. It included Lynux Support. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 19:18:39 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:18:39 -0500 Subject: "Linux Format" In-Reply-To: <20060127184745.21160.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060127184745.21160.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601271118i62389f56g4cbaf2cdc388e58d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/27/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > So, fingers crossed in a few months we will be a bit > better known to a predominately UK audience :-) . Woot! =) -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 20:52:41 2006 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:52:41 -0500 Subject: Linix :) In-Reply-To: ; from matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 02:28:22PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20060127155241.A22443@diamond.ss.org> On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 02:28:22PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > "Muhammad Imran" writes: > > As I am actively on job search web-sites these days, I find some funny > > things:- > > > > Here's someone who needs a System Administrator for 'Linix', is it a new OS ? > > :) > > That's nothing. We got a fax spam from a company with a one page ad on all > of their support services and hardware offerings. It included Lynux Support. > -- My favourite is when they advertise looking for N number of years experience for a product that was developed and maintained in house. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 22:09:59 2006 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:09:59 +0000 Subject: Linix :) In-Reply-To: <20060127155241.A22443-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060127155241.A22443@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: > > "Muhammad Imran" writes: > > > As I am actively on job search web-sites these days, I find some funny > > > things:- > > > > > > Here's someone who needs a System Administrator for 'Linix', is it a >new OS ? > > > :) > > > > That's nothing. We got a fax spam from a company with a one page ad on >all > > of their support services and hardware offerings. It included Lynux >Support. > > -- >My favourite is when they advertise looking for N number of years >experience for a product that was developed and maintained in house. And if you apply for a "Linix" or "Lynux" job don't forget to mention that you know "Pearl" very well :) Imran. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 27 23:06:03 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:06:03 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43D9C84D.3040403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43DAA75B.90906@rogers.com> > You might check some of the P2P networks. Someone must have a copy lying > around in their shared directory. Frostwire and aMule could be your > friend(s). That's a good idea, thanks for reminding me. I didn't find any torrents, but that's not the only game in town :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 00:29:30 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:29:30 -0500 Subject: i386 anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43DABAEA.6000003@rogers.com> Chris Friedt wrote: > Does anyone need something for their museum or antique shop ? Maybe for > some sort of modern art ? Perhaps you should be asking in a boating list. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 02:36:39 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:36:39 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <20060117024931.GA5136-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <43DAD8B7.2030004@sympatico.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a routine > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. Further to this, the Building Owners & Managers Association of Toronto wants to know how it affected you: IESO Voltage Reductions Jan. 19/06 Members were notified on January 19th, 2006 the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) would be implementing voltage reductions. Your feedback via this survey will assist us in ensuring that the IESO receives the necessary feedback. We appreciate your cooperation. To access the survey please click the link below. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 04:04:16 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:04:16 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <43DAD8B7.2030004-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <43DAD8B7.2030004@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43DAED40.3030302@rogers.com> I was all ready to call "horse-shit" on any alleged problems, but then I looked at my distributed.net statistics, and things took a very noticeable dip over the 19th to 20th, the date span due to lag and processing delay. Hmmm... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 18:26:24 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:26:24 -0500 Subject: Heads up; Ontario-wide brownout tests Thursday Jan 19 In-Reply-To: <43DAD8B7.2030004-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060117024931.GA5136@waltdnes.org> <43DAD8B7.2030004@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 1/27/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) is planning a > routine > > voltage reduction test for Thursday, January 19, 2006. > > Further to this, the Building Owners & Managers Association of Toronto > wants to know how it affected you: > > IESO Voltage Reductions Jan. 19/06 > > Members were notified on January 19th, 2006 the Independent Electricity > System Operator (IESO) would be implementing voltage reductions. Your > feedback via this survey will assist us in ensuring that the IESO > receives the necessary feedback. We appreciate your cooperation. To > access the survey please click the link below. > > Interesting how filling out this survey takes you to http://www.bomatoronto.org/ which includes a graphic of a guitar head with the inscription BOMA - BandAid 2006. Are we talking about the big music festival that Bob Geldoff organized all these years ago, or the euphemism for a 'quick fix'? Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 18:50:27 2006 From: ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Nick Davey) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:50:27 -0500 Subject: How to turn d-link wireless router to a switch? In-Reply-To: <20060127154949.1822.qmail-nL7KR/xab7CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060127154949.1822.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <622A9F8E-CD0D-4626-83CD-16EB1C8E001A@cogeco.ca> You do not need a crossover cable. The LAN ports on the D-Link router are Auto-MDI/MDIX, i.e., the hardware will "reconfigure" itself automatically to accept either a straight cable or a crossover cable. There are several threads on this forum which discuss how to connect a second router to behave only as an Access Point. The basic steps are as follows: 1) Disable DHCP on the D-Link router 2) Under WAN, assign it a Static IP Address, it doesn't matter what this is. 3) Do NOT connect anything to the WAN port of the D-Link router. Use your ethernet cable to connect a LAN port on your D-Link router to the rest of your network. Good luck! On 27-Jan-06, at 10:49 AM, hui xu wrote: > > All, > > Anybody can tell me how to turn a dlink wireless > router to a wireless switch? > > I just want to use the dlink to work as wireless > switch in my local lan not as a router? > > Current the dlink wireless works as router between my > linux server and my client latop, I can not find a way > to rlogin in to my linux server form my lan. > > > > Thank you very much! > > hui > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 19:40:12 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:40:12 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... Message-ID: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> ...the douchebags and their usual idiocy, I don't wanna get to into it but this is the last straw. Dumping cable and going to satellite for TV, too (open for suggestions in this regard as well). However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service provider. I do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like a company that guarantee me some level of service and will put it on paper that I can run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd like to be able to run a small honeynet too. Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 Mbps down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a month. Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat business DSL line at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd totally consider that option. Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org email address, but I'll survive. Might finally get around to registering my own domain, so maybe I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 28 19:54:47 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:54:47 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... Message-ID: Mycybernet.net 3 yrs now. Email notice of planned outages, no caps, no complaints on servers, competent tech support. Bottom line, no BS D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry) PIN 30073084 (as of May 9,2005) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Sat Jan 28 14:40:12 2006 Subject: [TLUG]: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... ...the douchebags and their usual idiocy, I don't wanna get to into it but this is the last straw. Dumping cable and going to satellite for TV, too (open for suggestions in this regard as well). However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service provider. I do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like a company that guarantee me some level of service and will put it on paper that I can run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd like to be able to run a small honeynet too. Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 Mbps down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a month. Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat business DSL line at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd totally consider that option. Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne at rogers.com email address, but I'll survive. Might finally get around to registering my own domain, so maybe I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 02:45:28 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:45:28 -0600 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DBC89C.9040701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> I had great experiences with Look when I was using them. I'm now with Bell and have had mixed feelings, although things have definitely settled down.. they rewired a bit of my neighborhood in part thanks to me. =p Both ISPs are unmetered.. I too take great issue with metered connections. Both are also fine with you running a server and have been quite Linux-friendly. Or at least not in the least bit unfriendly, which I suppose is pretty good. =) I was actually thinking of the Rogers business service, which I understand is very high speed and unmetered, also allowing the use of a server. I haven't looked into that though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 03:25:17 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:25:17 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> Oddly, Rogers' business services are priced the same as their home service. This is their "Home Office" comparison chart: http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/internetpackages_homeoffice.asp?shopperID=KVRNRRHF5CBJ9HV1VSRTUD46VQAE00T3 Can't find anything on metering or servers, naturally. Interestingly, I just got off the phone with Rogers tonight. I was asking about how they meter Bittorrent, and was told two interesting facts: 1. They intend to cap only the upload of data through BT, not download. It seems they want to cut your upload bandwidth in half (i.e. in my case to 400 kbps from 800) 2. They're "in progress" on this capability right now. That is, it's not working as intended in all locations. Cheers, Aaron. On 1/28/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I had great experiences with Look when I was using them. I'm now with > Bell and have had mixed feelings, although things have definitely > settled down.. they rewired a bit of my neighborhood in part thanks to > me. =p > > Both ISPs are unmetered.. I too take great issue with metered > connections. Both are also fine with you running a server and have > been quite Linux-friendly. Or at least not in the least bit > unfriendly, which I suppose is pretty good. =) > > I was actually thinking of the Rogers business service, which I > understand is very high speed and unmetered, also allowing the use of > a server. I haven't looked into that though. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 04:06:51 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:06:51 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43DC3F5B.6050709@telly.org> Aaron Vegh wrote: >Oddly, Rogers' business services are priced the same as their home >service. This is their "Home Office" comparison chart: > >http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/internetpackages_homeoffice.asp?shopperID=KVRNRRHF5CBJ9HV1VSRTUD46VQAE00T3 > >Can't find anything on metering or servers, naturally. > > The only Rogers service I found that offers static IP is the $200/mo "dedicated" service: http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/dedicated.asp (Actually, that comes with five static IP addresses.) - Evan PS: I'm no great fan of Rogers but Bell is IMO massively worse. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 06:30:07 2006 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:30:07 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43DC1A9F.7272.1DA23829@localhost> As a Sympatico user, I will go on record as saying that their NNTP feed is one of the most mis-managed I have seen. And I am not talking about binary groups, I am talking about their management of the core newsgroups (the so-called "Big 8" (or Big 7?) text-only hierarchies). I have not seen such a level of USENET mis- management with any provider I have done business with. On 28 Jan 2006 at 20:45, Sy Ali (Sy Ali ) spaketh these wourdes: > I had great experiences with Look when I was using them. I'm now with > Bell and have had mixed feelings, although things have definitely > settled down.. they rewired a bit of my neighborhood in part thanks to > me. =p > > Both ISPs are unmetered.. I too take great issue with metered > connections. Both are also fine with you running a server and have > been quite Linux-friendly. Or at least not in the least bit > unfriendly, which I suppose is pretty good. =) > > I was actually thinking of the Rogers business service, which I > understand is very high speed and unmetered, also allowing the use of > a server. I haven't looked into that though. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 07:45:11 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 02:45:11 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060129074511.GA4681@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jan 28, 2006 at 10:25:17PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Oddly, Rogers' business services are priced the same as their home > service. This is their "Home Office" comparison chart: > > http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/internetpackages_homeoffice.asp?shopperID=KVRNRRHF5CBJ9HV1VSRTUD46VQAE00T3 > > Can't find anything on metering or servers, naturally. > > Interestingly, I just got off the phone with Rogers tonight. I was > asking about how they meter Bittorrent, and was told two interesting > facts: > > 1. They intend to cap only the upload of data through BT, not > download. It seems they want to cut your upload bandwidth in half > (i.e. in my case to 400 kbps from 800) > 2. They're "in progress" on this capability right now. That is, it's > not working as intended in all locations. Why stop at 400kbps? They can do all the way to 54kbps (dialup), and solve all their upload bandwidth problem. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From slackrat-mOBtk8rjKVpiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 09:11:24 2006 From: slackrat-mOBtk8rjKVpiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:11:24 +0100 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DBC89C.9040701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <43DC86BC.2010300@nerdshack.com> Byron Sonne wrote: > ...the douchebags and their usual idiocy, I don't wanna get to into it > but this is the last straw. Dumping cable and going to satellite for TV, > too (open for suggestions in this regard as well). > > However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service provider. I > do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like a company that > guarantee me some level of service and will put it on paper that I can > run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd like to be able to run a > small honeynet too. > > Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 Mbps > down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a month. > Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat business DSL line > at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd totally consider that > option. > > Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org email address, but I'll > survive. Might finally get around to registering my own domain, so maybe > I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) Well I too was happy to be rid of Rogers, having originally been a Shaw subscriber. But then I moved to France, and harking to a couple of idiots posing as wise men, both occupying such positions that I inferred that they ought to know the score, I signed up with Wanadoo. My 20 mega connection has never topped out at more than 16 and usually comes in around 4 - 6 despite the fact that I'm paying a premium for the high speed option. Loss of connection, whilst never (touch wood) long, is all to frequent and I once had three IP numbers within a ten minute period. And I don't even have the pleasure, of a snowy winter night of calling Rogers' support and telling them I run Linux, just for a giggle. -- Slack Rat (Bill Henderson) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 13:32:02 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:32:02 -0500 Subject: hald/gnome issues Message-ID: <43DCC3D2.1040208@sympatico.ca> I _had_ a system which used to autodetect removable media, and after a recent upgrade*, it doesn't. Before I go back and rebuild absolutely everything that could have been affected (hald, dbus, gnome-volume-manager, hotplug, udev, kernel headers and possibly even glibc), has someone snuck in a new required part of this process, or quietly 'deprecated' someyhing I was relying on? I'd seen the package 'ivman' bandied about on the Gentoo forums, but that looks like it'd get in the way. I'm assuming I'll have to redo everything on ; is that reasonable? cheers, Stewart *: upgrade in name only. It's a positive downgrade in terms of usability. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 15:36:17 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:36:17 -0500 Subject: hald/gnome issues In-Reply-To: <43DCC3D2.1040208-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DCC3D2.1040208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: What did you upgrade from, and to? What does /var/log/messages say when you plug the device in? What steps do you take to manually mount the device? -Joseph- On 1/29/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I _had_ a system which used to autodetect removable media, and after a > recent upgrade*, it doesn't. Before I go back and rebuild absolutely > everything that could have been affected (hald, dbus, > gnome-volume-manager, hotplug, udev, kernel headers and possibly even > glibc), has someone snuck in a new required part of this process, or > quietly 'deprecated' someyhing I was relying on? > > I'd seen the package 'ivman' bandied about on the Gentoo forums, but > that looks like it'd get in the way. I'm assuming I'll have to redo > everything on ; is > that reasonable? > > cheers, > Stewart > > *: upgrade in name only. It's a positive downgrade in terms of usability. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 16:44:24 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:44:24 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DC86BC.2010300-mOBtk8rjKVpiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <43DC86BC.2010300@nerdshack.com> Message-ID: <43DCF0E8.4030409@rogers.com> Wow - there's enough horror in the responses so far that Roger's doesn't look so bad anymore ;) Maybe I'll suck it up and just deal with it. Haven't had too many connectivity problems, and I actually get about 140 Kbps above what my upload cap should be. Toss ack prioritization on top of that, and the connections been pretty good and smooth. No real speed complaints. Too bad I probably made an idiot of myself to the Rogers folks, however justified I might have been. It's just been so many years of nonsense over the years with Rogers, ya know, really feeling played. They got a bad case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, or not keeping their (sub)contractors in the loop. The folks that actually show up to install and wire the place have always been, in my experience, pretty cool. It's the rest of the company. The kicker: in the past, when the lady of the house or I would phone up to cancel a Rogers service (other than internet) 50% of the time we'd still receive it for MONTHS afterwards without getting billed for it! They're so half-assed they even have problems being half-assed in their own favour :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 16:57:29 2006 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:57:29 +0000 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DC86BC.2010300-mOBtk8rjKVpiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <43DC86BC.2010300@nerdshack.com> Message-ID: On 1/29/06, Slack Rat wrote: > > And I don't even have the pleasure, of a snowy winter night of calling > Rogers' support and telling them I run Linux, just for a giggle. > Well, you do know who holds $100mill of Rogers shares, don't you? Micro$oft. Now it all makes sense. :-| -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 17:42:52 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:42:52 -0500 Subject: framebuffer mode on laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43DCFE9C.40500@utoronto.ca> Actually framebuffer will give you 120x60 consoles. Ever seen how cool console emacs looks when it has four windows in a console. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 17:53:50 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:53:50 -0500 Subject: Quota on NFS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43DD012E.7010802@utoronto.ca> Paul Mora wrote: > On 1/24/06, *Kihara Muriithi* > wrote: > > Hi all, > Just wondering, when a NFS client try to access a shared NFS file > system, the server see it either as a user "nobody" or "root" > depending on the configuration - options inserted on fstab. Now, to > enforce quotas, you need a better user name, nobody and root isn't > going to cut it as its too general. How does the rquota get this > information? > > > Not true. NFS works entirely on UID/GID from client to server. The > only account that gets mapped to user "nobody" on the server is root on > the client. Every other UID/GID on the client gets mapped to the same > UID/GID on the server . > > This is also why users and UIDs (and groups and GIDs) need to be > synchronized for NFS to work. If they are out of sync; then you get all > sorts of permission problems. > This is the default behaviour but one can use configuration files to map one uid to another. I went through this when I connected my Mac OS X to my Linux box. Needless to say my UID on Mac OS X wasn't the same as my uid on Debian. But whole point became moot when I realized that Linux has a very nice Apple Filing Protocol Daemon (afpd) thank you very much. When NFS is used, it usually paired with NIS/yp (Network Information Service/Yellow Pages, Yellow Pages can't really be used because it's a trademark.) Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 18:33:42 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:33:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601242145k6b2af4advc14abf3f1f149287-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> <20060124195154.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0601242145k6b2af4advc14abf3f1f149287@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: [warning: only Atari vs Amiga vs Mac stuff follows.] | From: Scott Elcomb | | On 1/24/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 09:15:00PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: | > > I remember the old days when Commodore and Atari and Apple fans fought | > > over which was the best 8 bit system, when various fans fought over | > > which 68K home computer was "best," and such... Back in those days, | > > we were bright but nonetheless pretty stupid kids. "We're the best; | > > the other computers SUCK!!!" | > | > Oh the 68k question is easy: Commodore had the best hardware, Apple the | > best marketing, and atari got nothing. | | Not sure if I remember correctly or not, but I think at that time | Atari was fairly strong on video technology... Semi-proof of silliness: the Atari 16-bit line was designed by the Commodore 8-bit folks and vice versa. Yet the loyalty of the fans seemed to be to the brand, not the engineering team. The Atari had a few winning aspects. In the interest of bias, I won't mention the losses. Atari vs Amiga: - Atari ST was perhaps half the price of the Amiga (at least for the first few models) - The Atari ST had a wonderful (for its day) mono monitor. Amiga didn't. - built-in midi endeared the machine to musicians - the file system was compatible with MS DOS. This was also limiting, but it was often a plus. Atari ST vs Mac - ST was perhaps a third the cost - ST was faster. (Faster clock and less contention with video.) - ST had more memory. 520 ST (512K RAM) came before "Fat Mac" or Mac Plus. By the time the Mac Plus came out, the 1040 ST (1024K) was available. - ST had a larger mono monitor (more area AND more pixels). You could also use a colour monitor (Mac didn't have colour until the Mac II (a whole different price range)). - ST mouse had two buttons. - ST had built-in midi - ST had cheaper hard drives. - ST worked reasonably without hard drives. I chose the Atari ST (I waited until the 1040). It turned out that my main use for it was as a terminal to my UNIX box. For that, the mono monitor and the price were the factors that made it the right choice. I wrote very few ST programs although I expected to write more. UNIX was just better suited to programming. If I'd had an Amiga, *maybe* I would have found it useful/interesting/pleasant enough that I would not have just used it as a terminal. Now if a hard-core Amigan wants to convert me, I've collected a 2000 that I've never powered on... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 19:47:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:47:24 -0500 Subject: Differencing Directories In-Reply-To: <20060116222414.GA6848-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060116195126.GA6259@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060116222414.GA6848@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060117194723.GR18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 05:24:14PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Yes, but the output is decidedly unbeautiful. I am not completely > satisfied with dirdiff, but it seems to be a better choice than some of > my options. Tree is educational, and lends itself scriptable solutions, > but for a rough overview it seems to be okay. There are a lot of > proprietary solutions out there for windoze I noticed, but because all > the pieces are in place on Linux to do this yourself it seems less in > demand. diff -rNq isn't parseable enough? How about: diff <(find dir1 | sort) <(find dir2 |sort) That might work. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 19:40:32 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:40:32 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43C5DA25.3080300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> So I'm looking at simply purchasing a number of these systems to take down to Jacmel and configure them there: http://lesstech.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/45/products_id/170 I'll have the hard drives taken out since it appears that the network cards (10/100) PCI have a cable that attaches to the motherboard? Is this perhaps the boot from LAN that I'm hoping it is? The systems have floppy drives so it isn't too much of a problem. The video cards are all 16mb AGP, more than enough to do the job according to what I've read on LTSP and such websites. Also, the sound is built into the motherboard, making it PCI if I understand built in components correctly (unless there is such a thing as built in ISA???). I've heard that esound will look after sound for each client computer. Can it look after line in (microphone) as well? One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit everywhere? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 17 19:49:15 2006 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:49:15 -0500 Subject: Linux, Internet Cafe, Haiti... In-Reply-To: <43CD4830.6030704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43C1B430.4030803@utoronto.ca> <43C1E793.4060903@utoronto.ca> <43C5DA25.3080300@utoronto.ca> <43CD4830.6030704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit everywhere? --Yes-- -Joseph- On 1/17/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > So I'm looking at simply purchasing a number of these systems to take > down to Jacmel and configure them there: > http://lesstech.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/45/products_id/170 > > I'll have the hard drives taken out since it appears that the network > cards (10/100) PCI have a cable that attaches to the motherboard? Is > this perhaps the boot from LAN that I'm hoping it is? The systems have > floppy drives so it isn't too much of a problem. > > The video cards are all 16mb AGP, more than enough to do the job > according to what I've read on LTSP and such websites. > > Also, the sound is built into the motherboard, making it PCI if I > understand built in components correctly (unless there is such a thing > as built in ISA???). I've heard that esound will look after sound for > each client computer. Can it look after line in (microphone) as well? > > One question: would gigabit from the server to the switch and then > 100mbit to the terminals make things quicker than just plain 100mbit > everywhere? > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 19:18:15 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:18:15 -0500 Subject: Lone Coder Blog RSS Feed Message-ID: <1138562295.5146.6.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> By popular request, my Linux / Open Source Lone Coder web column is now equipped with an RSS feed. You can use Firefox's Live Bookmark feature to be automatically informed about new articles. January's column is "The Tyranny of the Label", a look behind the failure of IT hiring practices to identify and acquire good people. You can read the article at http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_january_2006.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 19:30:03 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:30:03 +0000 Subject: Xenophobia (was Re:jobs in Linux / IT) In-Reply-To: References: <20060111175642.63419.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43C5B1CA.7030802@istop.com> <43CE7094.2080105@zen.co.uk> <20060124195154.GG18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0601242145k6b2af4advc14abf3f1f149287@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43DD17BB.9080106@zen.co.uk> Over here it was I think mainly between commodore and sinclair. Paul >| > > I remember the old days when Commodore and Atari and Apple fans fought >| > > over which was the best 8 bit system, when various fans fought over >| > > which 68K home computer was "best," and such... Back in those days, >| > > we were bright but nonetheless pretty stupid kids. "We're the best; >| > > the other computers SUCK!!!" >| > >| > Oh the 68k question is easy: Commodore had the best hardware, Apple the >| > best marketing, and atari got nothing. >| >| Not sure if I remember correctly or not, but I think at that time >| Atari was fairly strong on video technology... > >Semi-proof of silliness: the Atari 16-bit line was designed by the >Commodore 8-bit folks and vice versa. Yet the loyalty of the fans >seemed to be to the brand, not the engineering team. > >The Atari had a few winning aspects. In the interest of bias, I won't >mention the losses. > >Atari vs Amiga: > >- Atari ST was perhaps half the price of the Amiga (at least for the > first few models) > >- The Atari ST had a wonderful (for its day) mono monitor. Amiga > didn't. > >- built-in midi endeared the machine to musicians > >- the file system was compatible with MS DOS. This was also limiting, > but it was often a plus. > > >Atari ST vs Mac > >- ST was perhaps a third the cost > >- ST was faster. (Faster clock and less contention with video.) > >- ST had more memory. 520 ST (512K RAM) came before "Fat Mac" or Mac > Plus. By the time the Mac Plus came out, the 1040 ST (1024K) was > available. > >- ST had a larger mono monitor (more area AND more pixels). You > could also use a colour monitor (Mac didn't have colour until the > Mac II (a whole different price range)). > >- ST mouse had two buttons. > >- ST had built-in midi > >- ST had cheaper hard drives. > >- ST worked reasonably without hard drives. > >I chose the Atari ST (I waited until the 1040). It turned out that my >main use for it was as a terminal to my UNIX box. For that, the mono >monitor and the price were the factors that made it the right choice. >I wrote very few ST programs although I expected to write more. UNIX >was just better suited to programming. > >If I'd had an Amiga, *maybe* I would have found it >useful/interesting/pleasant enough that I would not have just used it >as a terminal. > >Now if a hard-core Amigan wants to convert me, I've collected a 2000 >that I've never powered on... >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.openoffice.org http://www.linux.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 21:34:12 2006 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:34:12 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... Message-ID: The cogeco business was supposed to be unmetered (technically uncapped, not unmetered) too, but every month, they'd start hassling me when I'd pass 50gb. Finally got tired of arguing with them D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry) PIN 30073084 (as of May 9,2005) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Sat Jan 28 22:25:17 2006 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... Oddly, Rogers' business services are priced the same as their home service. This is their "Home Office" comparison chart: http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/internetpackages_homeoffice.asp?shopperID=KVRNRRHF5CBJ9HV1VSRTUD46VQAE00T3 Can't find anything on metering or servers, naturally. Interestingly, I just got off the phone with Rogers tonight. I was asking about how they meter Bittorrent, and was told two interesting facts: 1. They intend to cap only the upload of data through BT, not download. It seems they want to cut your upload bandwidth in half (i.e. in my case to 400 kbps from 800) 2. They're "in progress" on this capability right now. That is, it's not working as intended in all locations. Cheers, Aaron. On 1/28/06, Sy Ali wrote: > I had great experiences with Look when I was using them. I'm now with > Bell and have had mixed feelings, although things have definitely > settled down.. they rewired a bit of my neighborhood in part thanks to > me. =p > > Both ISPs are unmetered.. I too take great issue with metered > connections. Both are also fine with you running a server and have > been quite Linux-friendly. Or at least not in the least bit > unfriendly, which I suppose is pretty good. =) > > I was actually thinking of the Rogers business service, which I > understand is very high speed and unmetered, also allowing the use of > a server. I haven't looked into that though. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 29 22:24:20 2006 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:24:20 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DC3F5B.6050709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> <43DC3F5B.6050709@telly.org> Message-ID: <43DD4094.3050905@istop.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The only Rogers service I found that offers static IP is the $200/mo > "dedicated" service: > http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/dedicated.asp > (Actually, that comes with five static IP addresses.) > > I have a static IP not paying anything ;) Well... I do not know how this follows... There is a something terribly wrong with how Bell manages their network. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 02:40:11 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:40:11 -0500 Subject: Quota on NFS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Thanks Paul for correcting me on this. I did take the root mapping concept too far. William On 26/01/06, Paul Mora wrote: > On 1/24/06, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just wondering, when a NFS client try to access a shared NFS file > > system, the server see it either as a user "nobody" or "root" > > depending on the configuration - options inserted on fstab. Now, to > > enforce quotas, you need a better user name, nobody and root isn't > > going to cut it as its too general. How does the rquota get this > > information? > > Not true. NFS works entirely on UID/GID from client to server. The only > account that gets mapped to user "nobody" on the server is root on the > client. Every other UID/GID on the client gets mapped to the same UID/GID > on the server . > > This is also why users and UIDs (and groups and GIDs) need to be > synchronized for NFS to work. If they are out of sync; then you get all > sorts of permission problems. > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 03:56:31 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:56:31 -0500 Subject: rpmbuild vs Xconfig Message-ID: Hi all, I just realised one can use rpmbuild to compile a kernel. I looked around for a configuration file, and I wouldn't say I got really far. Its a macro based, not the good old text files. Somehow, I still think its worth investing sometime playing with it since it does have an upper hand in that it does update rpmdb, something Xconfig script don't do. I am writing to seek some advice on some preliminary questions. How does rpmbuild works? Does it look around to customize the compile to the target environment or does it produce generic binaries that I could download from fedora website? I read man page, but I still can't figure out how to choose configuration options to compile a source file of kernel that I have downloaded on /usr/src as I would do with xconfig. Is it possible or am I looking at the wrong place? I would appreciate any help if you happen to be familiar with this tool Thanks in advance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 07:49:19 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 02:49:19 -0500 Subject: Joomla admin Message-ID: Anyone been working with Joomla for a while? If so, whats your opinion? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 12:31:33 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:31:33 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DD4094.3050905-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> <43DC3F5B.6050709@telly.org> <43DD4094.3050905@istop.com> Message-ID: <43DE0725.1030307@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> The only Rogers service I found that offers static IP is the $200/mo >> "dedicated" service: >> http://www.shoprogers.com/business/businesssolutions/dedicated.asp >> (Actually, that comes with five static IP addresses.) >> >> > I have a static IP not paying anything ;) Well... I do not know how this > follows... > > There is a something terribly wrong with how Bell manages their network. One thing I've noticed, is that a DHCP address on Rogers is virtually static. That is, it doesn't change unless there's a physical reason, that requires a change. Also, the host names, derived from the computer and modem MAC addresses, are permanent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 13:57:57 2006 From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:57:57 -0500 Subject: OTVery low-level hardware question Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> About 1 1/2 years ago I bought a small SanDisk MP3 player that worked off a flash drive. Recently I started to have problems with it. The sound would start to drop out when the unit was jostled. I opened the unit and it seems that one of the points where the ear phone jack joins the main board is loose. Before I get out my soldering iron (if I can find it) I was wondering if there's some alternative technology out there, i.e. a conductive adhesive that could be used in place of solder. I've never heard of anything like that existing, it's just seems like a good - and somewhat obvious - idea. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? Regards, Jim. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 14:11:44 2006 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:11:44 -0500 Subject: OTVery low-level hardware question In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> Message-ID: <43DE1EA0.20105@cogeco.ca> Jim Skehill wrote: > Before I get out my soldering iron (if I can find it) I was wondering if > there's some alternative technology out there, i.e. a conductive adhesive > that could be used in place of solder. Years ago when I used to fix televisions and other consumer electronic products, I found a "trace pen" to be useful on occasion. This is basically what it sounds like. A pen, with a conductive ink. It won't have the holding power of solder. But if you can restore your electrical connection, you can probably firm things up with a little CA glue. P.Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 14:27:23 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:27:23 -0500 Subject: OTVery low-level hardware question In-Reply-To: <43DE1EA0.20105-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> <43DE1EA0.20105@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200601300927.24314.interlug@weait.net> On Monday 30 January 2006 09:11, Patrick Allen wrote: > Jim Skehill wrote: > > Before I get out my soldering iron (if I can find it) I was wondering if > > there's some alternative technology out there, i.e. a conductive adhesive > > that could be used in place of solder. > > Years ago when I used to fix televisions and other consumer electronic > products, I found a "trace pen" to be useful on occasion. This is > basically what it sounds like. A pen, with a conductive ink. An alternative to a trace pen is rear window defogger repair paint. At auto repair stores. Comes in a very small bottle with a built-in brush. I second Jim's opinion. Solder it! These paints are not for mechanical strength (neither is solder, but it will do a better job than the paint.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 16:34:30 2006 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:34:30 -0500 Subject: hald/gnome issues Message-ID: I've actually had the exact same issue. Incidentally, what kind of chip are you using? I'm using an amd64, and have found that not-only HAL doesn't autodetect media, but also, the gnome-cd player dies after skipping a couple of tracks. I'm convinced that the latter problem may be something to do with very low-level cd control mechanism. The HAL problem - no idea. I've tried downgrading from gnome minor version 12 -> 10 (marked stable for amd64) and will soon see if that solves my problem. ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 16:52:57 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:52:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: "Linux Format" further follow-up. In-Reply-To: <20060127184745.21160.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060127184745.21160.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060130165258.63766.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to follow-up on the following, got word today that my little write-up on GTALug will appear in "Linux Format" issue 78, which will be on sale in England on Thursday 9th March. How long after that before the issue is available in Canada, your guess is as good as (maybe better than) mine... This all strikes me as VERY fast, it was over 1 year between the time I submitted my story: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7127 all about setting up a temporary Internet lounge and it being published in the February 2005 issue of "Linux Journal"... A while back there was someone here who was tracking how much various publications paid for submissions. At least for user group reports in "Linux Format" the answer is some free copies of the magazine... Not really complaining about payment, I wrote the article in part of an afternoon, took images at that evening's NewTLUG meeting, and then some more images the next evening on the way home (pictures of Pho Hung (one of which I used), and some pictures of the GSU Pub (which in the end I didn't use)). Now I will have one more line to add to my resume, and feeling good about helping to promote the group to a wider audience... Colin McGregor --- Colin McGregor wrote: > As many of you saw, on Tuesday Rebecca Smalley of > "Linux Format" approached us about doing an article > on > GTALug for their magazine. Well, a few minutes ago I > e-mailed Ms. Smalley an article with pictures about > GTALug. A LOT I would have like to touch on, but as > the word limit was 250 words (and yes as submitted > the > article was slightly longer than that). > > The pictures I e-mailed off were two taken at the > last > NewTLUG meeting (the only meeting I could do given > the > short notice/tight deadline), and one picture of > "Pho > Hung". The NewTLUG pictures are: > > - Herb and Sacha before the start of the meeting. > - William, Evan, Herb and Sacha after the meeting > > So, fingers crossed in a few months we will be a bit > better known to a predominately UK audience :-) . > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 16:59:45 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:59:45 -0500 Subject: World LUG map? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0601300859p565da1b4mf35472acc32c62f9@mail.gmail.com> Just curious, has anyone seen a GoogleMaps for LUG's - like this one from Perl Mongers? http://www.pm.org/groups/map.html -- Scott Elcomb psema4.gotdns.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 19:48:35 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:48:35 -0500 Subject: World LUG map? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0601300859p565da1b4mf35472acc32c62f9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0601300859p565da1b4mf35472acc32c62f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1138650515.3567.4.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 11:59 -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Just curious, has anyone seen a GoogleMaps for LUG's - like this one > from Perl Mongers? > > http://www.pm.org/groups/map.html > > -- > Scott Elcomb > psema4.gotdns.com No, but I've worked with GoogleMaps before. It's not too difficult to set one up. Need to know the latitude and longitude of each LUG. KB -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caution: Comments may be less negative than they appear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:01:34 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 Subject: Safari subscription? Message-ID: <20060130200134.GA31429@ettin> I'm thinking about getting a Safari subscription (safari.oreilly.com). Do any list members have them? Is it worth the money? Is the Max worth the premium over the basic? -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 9 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:19:38 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:19:38 -0500 Subject: How to turn d-link wireless router to a switch? In-Reply-To: <20060127154949.1822.qmail-nL7KR/xab7CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060127154949.1822.qmail@web50810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060130201938.GR18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 10:49:49AM -0500, hui xu wrote: > Anybody can tell me how to turn a dlink wireless > router to a wireless switch? > > I just want to use the dlink to work as wireless > switch in my local lan not as a router? > > Current the dlink wireless works as router between my > linux server and my client latop, I can not find a way > to rlogin in to my linux server form my lan. Well I did that just fine with my USR8054 before, by ignoring the then useless WAN port and just using it as a 4 port switch and wireless AP. The setup even has an option of 'AP only' mode, which disables the WAN port and routing and dhcp server and all the other stuff you don't need in that case. It just manages the AP encryption and mac filtering (if enabled) and such, and connects it to the switched ethernet ports. I would be surprised if the linksys can't do the same. If nothing else you can just connect nothing to the WAN port, and disable dhcp server and such on it and it should work the same. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:19:56 2006 From: jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org (Jim Van Meggelen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:19:56 -0500 Subject: Safari subscription? In-Reply-To: <20060130200134.GA31429@ettin> References: <20060130200134.GA31429@ettin> Message-ID: <20060130201947.YKIF17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@p3000> I have a Safari subscription that only allows me to view O'Reilly books. It is extremely handy for looking things up, and based on my experience with the O'Reilly-only version I would recommend Safari to anyone who likes reading docs online. Having said that, I still prefer a book in pulp ware format, and printing from Safari is (understandably) not supported. Also, I couldn't comment on the value, since I get it for free, but I would imagine that the value would depend on how much you use it. Jim. -- Jim Van Meggelen jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 "A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. This makes me rich." Guy Kawasaki -- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf > Of Neil Watson > Sent: January 30, 2006 3:02 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Safari subscription? > > I'm thinking about getting a Safari subscription (safari.oreilly.com). > Do any list members have them? Is it worth the money? Is > the Max worth the premium over the basic? > > -- > Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux > Network Administrator | Uptime 9 days > http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release > Date: 27/01/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:21:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:21:29 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <43D9C84D.3040403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43D9C84D.3040403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060130202129.GS18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 02:14:21AM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Oh, there's 8.6 machines out there... but I think running a Sun-ified > version of sendmail, so perhaps not quite the same thing :) Let's hope > not the same thing! The sendmail FAQ does mention that vendor version numbers often mean very little other than what they were once based on. > I came across that .obsolete directory too; bummed out as it seemed like > a really good hit. > > It's work related - we do a thorough job, and that means tracking down > god-awful old versions of software frequently. Makes for a good dose of > nostalgia too - like the good old days, when you tweaked makefiles and > headers manually, piped files to m4... until ./configure scripts came > and made us all lazy :) sendmail 8.6 predates the use of m4 for the configuration of sendmail. You had to write the .cf files yourself it appears. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:27:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:27:27 -0500 Subject: i386 anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060130202727.GT18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 10:15:44AM -0500, Chris Friedt wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm working in Ryerson's networking department, and we're getting rid > of unused equipment & moving to a new room. I'm not available to give > out a list of hardware by any means, but this particular unit is a bit > of a collector's item :D We will not be salvaging any of the parts > because they're close to two decades old, which is why I've been able to > make this one available. > > here are the specs on the chip itself: > http://www.cpu-collection.de/?l0=co&l1=Intel&l2=i386%20DX#A80386DX-33IV,i386DXlogo,%A9'85 > > I can't find any identifying labels on the motherboard unfortunately, > but it is in full working condition, PC's are just not built to last > these days ;-) . There is a FULL 8MB of RAM inside too!!! The > motherboard is an old one, with hand-soldered through-board connections, > and I believe that the board only has two layers - top & bottom. > > The case includes: > > four DRAM SIMMS - 2MB each > an ISA network card - half duplex ethernet > an ISA DB25 / DB15 card Sounds like parallel and joystick. > a DB9 serial and DB25 serial interface (for some reason they're both > labelled as COM ports??) So a 9 pin and a 25 pin serial port. Labeling as com makes good sense. > a 3.5" AT IDE disk - 340 MB Hmm, giant drive for that old a system. > a VGA graphics card > AT keyboard interface - minus the keyboard > a 3 1/2" floppy disk drive - not sure for what capacity Probably 1.44M since most 386 and even a lot of 286 machines had that. > a 5 1/4" floppy disk drive - 1.2 MB - with a bunch of disks > > Does anyone need something for their museum or antique shop ? Maybe for > some sort of modern art ? > > I will be listening for 24 hrs only, so unless I get a response by 10 > am tomorrow it is trash ! Also, I'm not going to do any part-swapping, > so the box is available as all or nothing. I already have x86 hardware, so no need for me. :) Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:35:01 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:35:01 -0500 Subject: Safari subscription? In-Reply-To: <20060130201947.YKIF17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@p3000> References: <20060130200134.GA31429@ettin> <20060130201947.YKIF17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@p3000> Message-ID: <20060130203501.GB31429@ettin> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 03:19:56PM -0500, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: >Having said that, I still prefer a book in pulp ware format, and printing >from Safari is (understandably) not supported. The 'SafariMax' subscription level that allows selective printing. "Download five chapters per month included in your subscription price*. Plus download credits roll over from month to month for up to 90 days." -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux Network Administrator | Uptime 9 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.11.4 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 20:35:49 2006 From: zen14920-1HOZaDBbGgxaa/9Udqfwiw at public.gmane.org (Paul Sutton) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:35:49 +0000 Subject: Strategy to rank Toronto among =?windows-1252?Q?world=92s_top_?= =?windows-1252?Q?5_places_for_ICT?= Message-ID: <43DE78A5.9020500@zen.co.uk> This looks interesting, has the lug got any influence or say in this issue. http://www.toronto.ca/business/index.htm I know lots of people consider MS to be industry standard, however there are lots of areas, that GNU/Linux is being used, e,.g web servers, and even on the US goverments Son of Star wars programme, which will mean that we will need skills in OSS inorder to maintain these systems, in the future, I will have a read through this, but it sounds a good opportunity to promote GNU/Linux and related technologies. shame that My local council in England is not as optimistic. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 21:12:26 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:12:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: World LUG map? In-Reply-To: <1138650515.3567.4.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1138650515.3567.4.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20060130211226.17473.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Ken Burtch wrote: > On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 11:59 -0500, Scott Elcomb > wrote: > > Just curious, has anyone seen a GoogleMaps for > LUG's - like this one > > from Perl Mongers? > > > > http://www.pm.org/groups/map.html > > > > -- > > Scott Elcomb > > psema4.gotdns.com > > No, but I've worked with GoogleMaps before. It's > not too difficult to > set one up. Need to know the latitude and longitude > of each LUG. > > KB To populate a map like the one you suggest, here is one starting point, a website that is attempting to track all Linux user groups in the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland), plus a small number of non-UK LUGs of particular interest to UK citizens, like an English language LUG in Costa del Sol, Spain (a popular UK winter holiday location :-) ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 21:30:15 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:30:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: World LUG map? In-Reply-To: <20060130211226.17473.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060130211226.17473.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060130213016.59466.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Ken Burtch wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 11:59 -0500, Scott Elcomb > > wrote: > > > Just curious, has anyone seen a GoogleMaps for > > LUG's - like this one > > > from Perl Mongers? > > > > > > http://www.pm.org/groups/map.html > > > > > > -- > > > Scott Elcomb > > > psema4.gotdns.com > > > > No, but I've worked with GoogleMaps before. It's > > not too difficult to > > set one up. Need to know the latitude and > longitude > > of each LUG. > > > > KB > > To populate a map like the one you suggest, here is > one starting point, a website that is attempting to > track all Linux user groups in the United Kingdom > (England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland), > plus > a small number of non-UK LUGs of particular interest > to UK citizens, like an English language LUG in > Costa > del Sol, Spain (a popular UK winter holiday location > :-) ). Eeeek, my mistake, I didn't cut and paste the URL for the above noted website... so here it is: http://www.lug.org.uk/ Next question, where to find a similar list for other nations? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 21:51:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:51:18 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DBC89C.9040701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 28, 2006 at 02:40:12PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > ...the douchebags and their usual idiocy, I don't wanna get to into it > but this is the last straw. Dumping cable and going to satellite for TV, > too (open for suggestions in this regard as well). > > However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service provider. I > do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like a company that > guarantee me some level of service and will put it on paper that I can > run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd like to be able to run a > small honeynet too. > > Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 Mbps > down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a month. > Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat business DSL line > at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd totally consider that > option. Rogers extreme is 5Mbit down. Quite fast, but it isn't 8Mbit. :) > Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org email address, but I'll > survive. Might finally get around to registering my own domain, so maybe > I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) There is always gmail, or one of the services where you can get a permanent address that you forward to your real one. Well it seems that igs.net is doing a reasonable job, at least from the point of view of someone having used istop before they got transfered to igs. Their plan right now seems to be 3/4Mbit ($35/$70 / month), with $10/month for static ip. No transfer limits. I can't find their terms of service anywhere, so I am not sure what their policy is on things. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 22:05:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:05:18 -0500 Subject: framebuffer mode on laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060130220518.GV18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 12:58:44PM -0500, bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Can someone tell me what framebuffer mode is, and is it necessary for > running on laptops? So no it isn't necesary. In some cases it actually makes the laptop unusable. The framebuffer allows more text on the text console, and allows some programs to do graphics on the console too (w3m for example). It can also interfere with running X on many video chips, although certainly not all. You can also run X on the framebuffer device which of course solves the compatibility problem between the two, at the expense of almost always making X run much slower than it would with a native driver for the video chip. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 22:25:25 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:25:25 -0500 Subject: [OT] Old sendmail versions (8.6.0 in particular) In-Reply-To: <20060130202129.GS18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43D80F26.8070501@rogers.com> <20060126142040.GO18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <43D9C84D.3040403@rogers.com> <20060130202129.GS18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060130222525.GA2369@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 03:21:29PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 02:14:21AM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > > Oh, there's 8.6 machines out there... but I think running a > > Sun-ified version of sendmail, so perhaps not quite the same thing > > :) Let's hope not the same thing! > > The sendmail FAQ does mention that vendor version numbers often mean > very little other than what they were once based on. > > > I came across that .obsolete directory too; bummed out as it seemed > > like a really good hit. > > > > It's work related - we do a thorough job, and that means tracking > > down god-awful old versions of software frequently. Makes for a good > > dose of nostalgia too - like the good old days, when you tweaked > > makefiles and headers manually, piped files to m4... until > > ./configure scripts came and made us all lazy :) > > sendmail 8.6 predates the use of m4 for the configuration of sendmail. > You had to write the .cf files yourself it appears. :) Problem solved, Byron. No one is using THAT version. So, no need to test it. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 22:39:16 2006 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:39:16 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060130215118.GU18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200601301739.17174.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> On Mon January 30 2006 4:51 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 28, 2006 at 02:40:12PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > > ...the douchebags and their usual idiocy, I don't wanna get to into it > > but this is the last straw. Dumping cable and going to satellite for TV, > > too (open for suggestions in this regard as well). > > > > However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service provider. I > > do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like a company that > > guarantee me some level of service and will put it on paper that I can > > run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd like to be able to run a > > small honeynet too. > > > > Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 Mbps > > down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a month. > > Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat business DSL line > > at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd totally consider that > > option. > > Rogers extreme is 5Mbit down. Quite fast, but it isn't 8Mbit. :) > > > Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org email address, but I'll > > survive. Might finally get around to registering my own domain, so maybe > > I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) > > There is always gmail, or one of the services where you can get a > permanent address that you forward to your real one. > > Well it seems that igs.net is doing a reasonable job, at least from the > point of view of someone having used istop before they got transfered to > igs. Their plan right now seems to be 3/4Mbit ($35/$70 / month), with > $10/month for static ip. No transfer limits. > > I can't find their terms of service anywhere, so I am not sure what > their policy is on things. > I have been with IGS for years. No problem with servers. Competent and helpful non-clueless technical support (they told ME about mtr). Static IP available for $5.00/mth. When bell screwed up my line a while a go they (IGS) provided me with a dial up account to get me through. Highly recommended. See www.igs.net Charly Baker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 30 23:24:13 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:24:13 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060130215118.GU18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> > > Rogers extreme is 5Mbit down. Quite fast, but it isn't 8Mbit. :) Actually it's 6Mb. But real world is a very different beast, naturally! I just got 1217/616 on speakeasy, but I've also seen as high as 5000+. For performance, hey, I can't complain: I like Rogers and I'm not switching anytime soon. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 00:42:17 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:42:17 -0500 Subject: Is this a problem the OSS community could handle? Message-ID: <20060131004217.GA6624@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I was talking to a doctor the other day who is working with hospitals in the developing world. He said something that I thought was interesting, and I wanted to bounce it off the list. Apparently, he can get his hands on a number of USB powered ultrasound wands (the kind used to see images of babies in utero), which would greatly assist doctors who otherwise have no access to useful diagnostic tools. While the wands could be purchased and taken to hospitals in Africa, there is no way to license the software to use them. The question is, if all you had was a bunch of these wands, could the OSS community create driver and imaging software for them? I know it's beyond me, there are some incredibly talented people out there who might be interested in this challenge. Any opinions? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 00:52:13 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:52:13 -0500 Subject: Is this a problem the OSS community could handle? In-Reply-To: <20060131004217.GA6624-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060131004217.GA6624@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060130195213.463005e8.tleslie@tcn.net> Sounds interesting. I am just wondering: the wand is probably the expensive piece, i am wondering why the software, or atleast the basic data acquistion wouldnt be included? or really inexpensive? is there a API/Protocol available for the interface? if there isn't , one would have to get atleast one license and run it (probably on a windows box?) and use a USB splicer and data dumper to look at the data coming from it. My guess is it works something like GNU radio appliance, i.e. a kick ass AtoD with a Altera FieldProgrammableGateArray type thing, and a usb controller. It would be interesting to take a look at especially if it would have MANY deployments. if you get anymore info, please post it. -tl On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:42:17 -0500 "William O'Higgins Witteman" wrote: > I was talking to a doctor the other day who is working with hospitals in > the developing world. He said something that I thought was interesting, > and I wanted to bounce it off the list. Apparently, he can get his > hands on a number of USB powered ultrasound wands (the kind used to see > images of babies in utero), which would greatly assist doctors who > otherwise have no access to useful diagnostic tools. While the wands > could be purchased and taken to hospitals in Africa, there is no way to > license the software to use them. > > The question is, if all you had was a bunch of these wands, could the > OSS community create driver and imaging software for them? I know it's > beyond me, there are some incredibly talented people out there who might > be interested in this challenge. Any opinions? > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 01:55:53 2006 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jimt) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:55:53 -0500 Subject: Hidden partition Message-ID: <200601302055.53469.jim@taylors.ca> I was attempting to set up an old IBM PC. I find it has a hidden partition. Even after installing a new OS it boots with an error "1962 no operating system found" I think I saw some one with the same problem not long ago. If you could point me to the email archives or repost the solution I would appreciate it. Thanks -- Jim Taylor Tel 416-651-1967 Fax 416-651-8691 jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 01:54:04 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 30 Jan 2006 20:54:04 -0500 Subject: rpmbuild vs Xconfig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kihara Muriithi writes: > Hi all, > I just realised one can use rpmbuild to compile a kernel. I looked > around for a configuration file, and I wouldn't say I got really far. > Its a macro based, not the good old text files. Somehow, I still think > its worth investing sometime playing with it since it does have an > upper hand in that it does update rpmdb, something Xconfig script > don't do. > I am writing to seek some advice on some preliminary questions. How > does rpmbuild works? Does it look around to customize the compile to > the target environment or does it produce generic binaries that I > could download from fedora website? rpmbuild is a tool for building RPMs. If you're not familiar with building RPMs, you probably don't want to cut your teeth building a kernel RPM as they're quite complicated, pushing rpmbuild to (some would say beyond) its limits. > I read man page, but I still can't > figure out how to choose configuration options to compile a source > file of kernel that I have downloaded on /usr/src as I would do with > xconfig. If you want to rebuild a kernel that is similar to the Fedora kernel, install the kernel-source RPM (note: this is not the same as the kernel SRPM) and build that using "make dep", "make config", "make", etc. Often, it's a good idea to start with the kernel config matching your running kernel which you can usually find in /boot. If you want to install a vanilla kernel (from kernel.org), just download and build according to the instructions in the README. Hope this helps, -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 02:06:08 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 30 Jan 2006 21:06:08 -0500 Subject: Is this a problem the OSS community could handle? In-Reply-To: <20060130195213.463005e8.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20060131004217.GA6624@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20060130195213.463005e8.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > Sounds interesting. I am just wondering: > > the wand is probably the expensive piece, Maybe, maybe not. > i am wondering why the software, or > atleast the basic data acquistion wouldnt be included? or really > inexpensive? I used to work in the Advanced Systems Technology Section at Ontario Hydro's Research Division (the big ugly building on Kipling, about 0.5 km south of Bloor). These guys did a lot of work with ultrasound (for examining welds and such). The software was _the_ critical piece. Without the software to analyze the ultrasound data, it was just noise. They invested many man years into the software which was constantly being refined to improve accuracy, sensitivity, etc. I can certainly imagine a dumb, USB powered, ultrasound wand which is pretty much useless without the software, explaining why the software is expensive. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 02:07:35 2006 From: nobrowser-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:07:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DE0725.1030307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <1e55af990601281845t2f62564cya1a500ac2d81824b@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b20601281925y56d27c54p84c58828db6e1fe@mail.gmail.com> <43DC3F5B.6050709@telly.org> <43DD4094.3050905@istop.com> <43DE0725.1030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <87d5i9duaj.fsf@gmail.com> James> One thing I've noticed, is that a DHCP address on Rogers is James> virtually static. That is, it doesn't change unless there's a James> physical reason, that requires a change. Also, the host names, James> derived from the computer and modem MAC addresses, are permanent. This seemed to be true of my Comcast connection in California, too. Something about how cable works. -- A true pessimist won't be discouraged by a little success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 02:18:36 2006 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:18:36 -0500 Subject: hald/gnome issues In-Reply-To: References: <43DCC3D2.1040208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <43DEC8FC.4020200@sympatico.ca> Joseph Kubik wrote: > What did you upgrade from, and to? Just a routine Gnome/Gentoo weekly rebuild; not any class of upgrade at all, really > What does /var/log/messages say when you plug the device in? Nothing untoward: usb-storage: device found at 3 usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning Vendor: Kingston Model: DataTraveler 2.0 Rev: 1.04 Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 00 SCSI device sda: 2007040 512-byte hdwr sectors (1028 MB) sda: Write Protect is off sda: Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00 sda: assuming drive cache: write through SCSI device sda: 2007040 512-byte hdwr sectors (1028 MB) sda: Write Protect is off sda: Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00 sda: assuming drive cache: write through sda: sda1 sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi removable disk sda usb-storage: device scan complete > What steps do you take to manually mount the device? Again, the usual: mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/USB What's unusual is that a restart seems to have got automounting working, but not in a way I'd particularly like. Plugging in the USB key gives me a mounted entry: /dev/sda1 on /media/STUSB2 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,quiet,shortname=winnt,uid=1000,gid=100,umask=077,iocharset=utf8) Unfortunately, this has been mounted as root, so I can't unmount it as user. What I really want is the way it used to work: unmounted devices would appear in my Nautilus "Computer" window. Double-clicking them would mount them as /media/Volume_Name, and I could unmount them with a right-click to the icon. No changes to the fstab were required, or wanted. Maybe the upgrade to Gnome was a bad one ... thanks, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 03:38:59 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:38:59 -0500 Subject: rpmbuild vs Xconfig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > If you want to rebuild a kernel that is similar to the Fedora kernel, install > the kernel-source RPM (note: this is not the same as the kernel SRPM) Hmm, I actually have SRPM. This is intentional since I assumed it would be more rpmbuild friendly. Was that a general statement or is it make config specific? Thank you William and > build that using "make dep", "make config", "make", etc. Often, it's a good > idea to start with the kernel config matching your running kernel which you > can usually find in /boot. > > If you want to install a vanilla kernel (from kernel.org), just download and > build according to the instructions in the README. > > Hope this helps, > > -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 05:06:42 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:06:42 -0500 Subject: Is this a problem the OSS community could handle? In-Reply-To: <20060131004217.GA6624-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060131004217.GA6624@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060131050642.GA3376@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 07:42:17PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I was talking to a doctor the other day who is working with hospitals > in the developing world. He said something that I thought was > interesting, and I wanted to bounce it off the list. Apparently, he > can get his hands on a number of USB powered ultrasound wands (the > kind used to see images of babies in utero), which would greatly > assist doctors who otherwise have no access to useful diagnostic > tools. While the wands could be purchased and taken to hospitals in > Africa, there is no way to license the software to use them. > > The question is, if all you had was a bunch of these wands, could the > OSS community create driver and imaging software for them? I know > it's beyond me, there are some incredibly talented people out there > who might be interested in this challenge. Any opinions? -- Yes, and for free, too. Get a graduate student to do his/her thesis on one of this thing. Generating 3-D picture, when all you have is 1-D impluse response, is black art. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 09:40:47 2006 From: rebecca.smalley-QZr2bbWUuUHRZ1oM81ef8Q at public.gmane.org (Rebecca Smalley) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:40:47 +0000 Subject: World LUG map? In-Reply-To: <20060130213016.59466.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060130213016.59466.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A worldwide source of LUGs is www.linuxorg/groups/. You could also try http://lugww.counter.li/org.groups.cms, www.linuxlinks.com/UserGroups/, http://glue.linuxgazette.com/ and http://linux.meetup.com/. But a lot of these are very out of date, just to warn you... On 30 Jan 2006, at 21:30, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Colin McGregor wrote: >> --- Ken Burtch wrote: >>> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 11:59 -0500, Scott Elcomb >>> wrote: >>>> Just curious, has anyone seen a GoogleMaps for >>> LUG's - like this one >>>> from Perl Mongers? >>>> >>>> http://www.pm.org/groups/map.html >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Scott Elcomb >>>> psema4.gotdns.com >>> >>> No, but I've worked with GoogleMaps before. It's >>> not too difficult to >>> set one up. Need to know the latitude and >> longitude >>> of each LUG. >>> >>> KB >> >> To populate a map like the one you suggest, here is >> one starting point, a website that is attempting to >> track all Linux user groups in the United Kingdom >> (England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland), >> plus >> a small number of non-UK LUGs of particular interest >> to UK citizens, like an English language LUG in >> Costa >> del Sol, Spain (a popular UK winter holiday location >> :-) ). > > Eeeek, my mistake, I didn't cut and paste the URL for > the above noted website... so here it is: > > http://www.lug.org.uk/ > > Next question, where to find a similar list for other > nations? > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please reply to this email and then delete it. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Future. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Future accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Future may regularly and randomly monitor outgoing and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunications systems. By replying to this email you give your consent to such monitoring. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 12:33:41 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:33:41 -0500 Subject: OTVery low-level hardware question In-Reply-To: <200601300927.24314.interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>; from interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org on Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 09:27:23 -0500 References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> <43DE1EA0.20105@cogeco.ca> <200601300927.24314.interlug@weait.net> Message-ID: <20060131123341.GA3002@localhost> On Mon Jan 30,2006 09:27:23 AM interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Solder it! These paints are not for mechanical strength > (neither is solder, but it will do a better job than the paint.) If solder wasn't expected to have mechanical strength then we would have to glue, or otherwise attach, components to circuit boards to hold them on in addition to using solder (the same goes for copper water pipes, for that matter). -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 13:09:45 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:09:45 -0500 Subject: OTVery low-level hardware question In-Reply-To: <20060131123341.GA3002@localhost> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D402B42BD7@RIKER> <43DE1EA0.20105@cogeco.ca> <200601300927.24314.interlug@weait.net> <20060131123341.GA3002@localhost> Message-ID: <43DF6199.1070309@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On Mon Jan 30,2006 09:27:23 AM interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Solder it! These paints are not for mechanical strength >> (neither is solder, but it will do a better job than the paint.) > > If solder wasn't expected to have mechanical strength then we would have > to glue, or otherwise attach, components to circuit boards to hold them > on in addition to using solder (the same goes for copper water pipes, > for that matter). Solder does have mechanical strength, but it's not as strong as other metals. When connecting wires, you're supposed to provide some other method for mechanical strength. when soldering pipes, sheet metal etc., you're soldering sufficient area, to provide strength. Common solder is very soft and easily broken. As an experiment try pulling on a piece of solder and see how easily it breaks. Now try the same with copper or steel wire of similar gauge, to see how much harder it is to break them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 14:01:01 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:01:01 -0500 Subject: OT: Region Free DVD Players Message-ID: <43DF6D9D.7070401@utoronto.ca> In a thread earlier this month there was a discussion about region free DVD players. I bought a "hackable" Philips DVP642/37 DVD player for a friend of mine (U of T graduate student, needed to play region 2 dvds) from Best Buy for around $70 (refurbished). After the hack said player was reported to have played region 2 dvds. I was probably too hasty in applying the hack. Should have tested whether said DVDs would have played before the adjustment. Copied and pasted from this site: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Philips+DVP+642 Region code hack posted by Joe Moe, April 30 2004: The hack published by Mats-?ke Larsson works perfectly on my DVP642. I'm copying it here for your viewing pleasure: 1. Turn on the player. 2. Open the tray. 3. Press the following sequence on the remote: 7 8 9 OK 0 4. The number 0 will appear on the lower left side of your screen. 5. Your player is now region free! Put in a DVD and enjoy! :) NOTE: The 0 in the sequence above represents the region code. 0 = region free. If you want to change your player to just a specific region code, replace the 0 with the region number you want. The hack should be perfectly safe, but USE IT ON YOUR OWN RISK! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Possibly Philips has updated the firmware and this may no longer be possible to do. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 16:54:22 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:54:22 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 06:24:13PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Actually it's 6Mb. But real world is a very different beast, > naturally! I just got 1217/616 on speakeasy, but I've also seen as > high as 5000+. For performance, hey, I can't complain: I like Rogers > and I'm not switching anytime soon. Well it was 5Mbit when I signed up a year ago. I haven't noticed the speed change ever. I still get 500 - 600KB/s downloads from some sites, so that seems like the rights speed to me. Having never seen over 600KB/s I doubt it is 6Mbit/s. Maybe they changed it recently. Too bad it costs so much, won't let me run servers, won't let me have a real static ip, etc... Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 16:57:08 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:57:08 -0500 Subject: Hidden partition In-Reply-To: <200601302055.53469.jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200601302055.53469.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <20060131165708.GX18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 08:55:53PM -0500, jimt wrote: > I was attempting to set up an old IBM PC. I find it has a hidden partition. > Even after installing a new OS it boots with an error "1962 no operating > system found" > I think I saw some one with the same problem not long ago. If you could point > me to the email archives or repost the solution I would appreciate it. Did you remember to set the boot partition active? Is the hidden partition at the start or end of the disk? Did you change to hidden partition? Some old IBM (and compaq and such) machines had the BIOS setup program on a partition on disk, and only stored a minimal BIOS and the settings in the actual BIOS. All to cut costs of course. You had to use a special floppy to create the partition or to load setup if you didn't have the partition on your HD. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 17:00:36 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:00:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Region Free DVD Players In-Reply-To: <43DF6D9D.7070401-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DF6D9D.7070401@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060131170036.GY18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 09:01:01AM -0500, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > In a thread earlier this month there was a discussion about region free > DVD players. > > I bought a "hackable" Philips DVP642/37 DVD player for a friend of mine > (U of T graduate student, needed to play region 2 dvds) from Best Buy > for around $70 (refurbished). > > After the hack said player was reported to have played region 2 dvds. I > was probably too hasty in applying the hack. Should have tested whether > said DVDs would have played before the adjustment. > > Copied and pasted from this site: > http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Philips+DVP+642 > > Region code hack posted by Joe Moe, April 30 2004: > The hack published by Mats-??ke Larsson works perfectly on my DVP642. I'm > copying it here for your viewing pleasure: > > 1. Turn on the player. > 2. Open the tray. > 3. Press the following sequence on the remote: > 7 8 9 OK 0 > 4. The number 0 will appear on the lower left side of your screen. > 5. Your player is now region free! Put in a DVD and enjoy! :) > > NOTE: The 0 in the sequence above represents the region code. 0 = region > free. If you want to change your player to just a specific region code, > replace the 0 with the region number you want. > > The hack should be perfectly safe, but USE IT ON YOUR OWN RISK! > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Possibly Philips has updated the firmware and this may no longer be > possible to do. I still think it might be simpler to just buy one of the pre modified players. You can certainly buy replacement firmware chips for many players to change them too. I saw many region free players while out shopping on the weekend in the $75 to $100 range. Many also claim mpeg4/divx support. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 17:31:30 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:31:30 -0500 Subject: Joomla admin Message-ID: On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 02:49 -0500, teddy mills wrote: > Anyone been working with Joomla for a while? > If so, whats your opinion? Not always, but often a sign of quality of a FOSS, is the easy software installation. I must say that Joomla is one of the easiest FOSS programs to install and get up and running. The administration of Joomla takes only a short time to get used to because the organization of the administration tools is superb. You can see for yourself at... http://www.opensourcecms.com/ http://vger1.dyndns.org Try out many live open-source CMS setups (Joomla is there too) Setting up new voting and polls and graphs in Joomla takes about 10 seconds. I setup some basic Linux polling questions about what is your favourite Linux distro, window manager, firewalls, and other simple voting questions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 19:51:33 2006 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:51:33 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131165422.GW18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hello, Everyone. I just wanted to mention that Rogers seems to be severely capping P2P application bandwidth on their network. When I run P2P apps (eMule, BitTorrent, Etc...) My upload bandwidth is normal for about 3 minutes, then Rogers' traffic shaping kicks in. This is what has me looking for another provider, not overall line speeds. for downloading from HTTP and FTP Rogers is great. My $0.02 Amos H. Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: January 31, 2006 11:54 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 06:24:13PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Actually it's 6Mb. But real world is a very different beast, > naturally! I just got 1217/616 on speakeasy, but I've also seen as > high as 5000+. For performance, hey, I can't complain: I like Rogers > and I'm not switching anytime soon. Well it was 5Mbit when I signed up a year ago. I haven't noticed the speed change ever. I still get 500 - 600KB/s downloads from some sites, so that seems like the rights speed to me. Having never seen over 600KB/s I doubt it is 6Mbit/s. Maybe they changed it recently. Too bad it costs so much, won't let me run servers, won't let me have a real static ip, etc... Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 20:39:21 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:39:21 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131165422.GW18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 31-Jan-06, at 11:54, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Having never seen over > 600KB/s I doubt it is 6Mbit/s. Maybe they changed it recently. 600KBps = 4800Kbps = 4.8Mbps Which is 96% of 5Mbps or 80% of 6Mbps. Assuming that you're talking about download speed as reported by your web browser or some other application, that's not very good delivery. If you really want to measure it, you'll need to start snooping around your traffic totals and such as reported by ifconfig (among others). > Too bad it costs so much, won't let me run servers, won't let me > have a > real static ip, etc... So... maybe you want to buy a different service? __________________________________________________ Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD38r5gfzn5SevSpoRAn66AKC8XWXMeJq32aYNtu7LkvnVGkPlpgCaAilW iXv5WmtZFTjJPc95WrruBtY= =4ucb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 21:26:25 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:26:25 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 03:39:21PM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote: > 600KBps = 4800Kbps = 4.8Mbps > > Which is 96% of 5Mbps or 80% of 6Mbps. Assuming that you're talking > about download speed as reported by your web browser or some other > application, that's not very good delivery. If you really want to > measure it, you'll need to start snooping around your traffic totals > and such as reported by ifconfig (among others). I go by the report from wget and apt-get. They seem fairly accurate. If I can have a 576KB/s average for a 30 minute download (my machine was a little behind up updates once) then I think it is fairly accurate. hitting a max of about 95% of the physical wire speed seems pretty good. hitting 80% would be pathetic. Hence why I still think it is 5Mbit. Makes me roll my eyes at Bell's new adds claiming to be 5 times faster than rogers. They don't say up to 5 times faster, and they don't say compared to which rogers service. So obviously Bell must be offering a 25Mbit connection now. Where do I sign up? :) > So... maybe you want to buy a different service? I don't have much choice at this time. I had a nice DSL connection that allowed servers, ran 3Mbit (on a good day) and a static IP. Then I moved, and can't get DSL at the new place. After a year bell still reports it as 'coming soon'. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anon.sun-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 21:37:53 2006 From: anon.sun-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Anon Sun) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:37:53 -0500 Subject: [OT] FS: Sun Fire V20zs, 2x250s, 4GB RAM w/3TB of Disk Message-ID: <812d259b0601311337l1ccefbd4y59f4bcbdc1685003@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm trying to see if there's any interest in some brand-new, "still in box", highly discounted Sun gear that my employer needs to liquidate ASAP. They've been sitting, unused and unopened, in an environmentally controlled warehouse for about 6 months. We've got 9 "sets" of: - a Sun Fire V20z, 2xAMD Opteron 250s, 4GB of RAM, 1x73GB SCSI HD; - a 3TB Sun StorEdge 3511, 12x250GB SATA disks w/1 RAID controller; - a 2GB single channel FC HBA. They're very Linux friendly - I've run various recent flavors of Fedora Core, CentOS, and Ubuntu on this setup with no trouble. Solaris 10 and Windows Server 2003 run like a dream as well. I've found the performance to be great for the price point, and would be ideal for a workgroup file server, video editing, etc. On the downside, the warranty isn't transferable. This setup normally lists at $38,890 CDN, but we really need to move 'em in the next month - price is negotiable and dependent on quantity, but we're looking for about $13,500 CDN per unit. Drop me a line if you know of a company this might help. Thanks in advance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 21:50:41 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:50:41 -0600 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131212625.GZ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990601311350g4f87cac7y67fb66550287021f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I don't have much choice at this time. I had a nice DSL connection that > allowed servers, ran 3Mbit (on a good day) and a static IP. Then I > moved, and can't get DSL at the new place. After a year bell still > reports it as 'coming soon'. For small values of "soon" ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 21:48:13 2006 From: vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:48:13 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131212625.GZ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1138744093.18644.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 16:26 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I go by the report from wget and apt-get. They seem fairly accurate. > If I can have a 576KB/s average for a 30 minute download (my machine was > a little behind up updates once) then I think it is fairly accurate. > hitting a max of about 95% of the physical wire speed seems pretty good. > hitting 80% would be pathetic. Hence why I still think it is 5Mbit. > Makes me roll my eyes at Bell's new adds claiming to be 5 times faster > than rogers. They don't say up to 5 times faster, and they don't say > compared to which rogers service. So obviously Bell must be offering a > 25Mbit connection now. Where do I sign up? :) > The claim by Bell is for their wireless service. -- Vince Fry vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org www.vincefry.com The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 22:09:35 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:09:35 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <43DBC89C.9040701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <35820ADD-D28B-4BA0-A184-D316CA98481A@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28-Jan-06, at 14:40, Byron Sonne wrote: > However I'm not sure what to do about getting a new service > provider. I do alot of downloads and uploads, and for once I'd like > a company that guarantee me some level of service and will put it > on paper that I can run servers. I work from home alot, and I'd > like to be able to run a small honeynet too. > > Goals: better than Rogers Extreme service, which is allegedly 8 > Mbps down and 640 Kbps up. I'd rather not spend more than $100 a > month. Residential service, too, although if I can get a phat > business DSL line at a good price in this area of forest hill I'd > totally consider that option. Ok, you want a written SLA, 8 up .64 down and all for less than $100. With a couple of static IPs or maybe a /28. Good luck. If you do manage to find someone, and they're in business for more than three months, please let me know. Personally, if I was going to get serious about my network connection again, I'd look for a company with a physically local POP and then get my firewall / router / micro-server / modem in there. Then you have the best of both worlds. First, your server is located in a data-center which eliminates a number of headaches. Second, you have full control of your uplink so you can shape your traffic any which way that pleases you. Third, you can upgrade your uplink whatever way pleases you. Wanna run the latest greatest flavour of DSL? Buy a pair of modems and go nuts. Fourth, this is the first step towards getting an ASN, which would be pretty darn cool. > Gonna be a drag to lose the blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org email address, but > I'll survive. Might finally get around to registering my own > domain, so maybe I need some kind of package deal, eh? :) May I suggest a .INFO or .ORG domain? It's always good to buy locally. :) Personally, once I went with gmail, I never looked back. Hosting my own email was a good learning experience, but in the end it was just a pain. I only did it to get the spam filtering, which gmail has. YMMV. __________________________________________________ Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD3+Afgfzn5SevSpoRAubEAJ9QyWDTW+elInVcU7dtIzfJZUAG8gCgzeyS u/NN54esqJy25OWOXRxs+JI= =BrkV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 22:16:05 2006 From: josephm153-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Joseph) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:16:05 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131165422.GW18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000e01c626b3$ee2a0310$81fbc645@unipc> Checkout http://www.tzo.com/ I have never used them but came across their page while doing some research. The paragraph below is from their site. With Dynamic DNS (DDNS), you can set up a domain name that can be used to access your connection so that you don't need to know what IP address is currently assigned to you. By using the TZO Client Software (no charge), you will never have worry about your IP address again because it will automatically determine what IP address is assigned to you and update your domain name to point to your current IP address. The service goes for about 60 USD That's apart from registering your domain name. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:54 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 06:24:13PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Actually it's 6Mb. But real world is a very different beast, > naturally! I just got 1217/616 on speakeasy, but I've also seen as > high as 5000+. For performance, hey, I can't complain: I like Rogers > and I'm not switching anytime soon. Well it was 5Mbit when I signed up a year ago. I haven't noticed the speed change ever. I still get 500 - 600KB/s downloads from some sites, so that seems like the rights speed to me. Having never seen over 600KB/s I doubt it is 6Mbit/s. Maybe they changed it recently. Too bad it costs so much, won't let me run servers, won't let me have a real static ip, etc... Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 22:23:23 2006 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:23:23 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <20060131212625.GZ18971-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <6AE472F1-9C2A-42C5-BA3C-73B96336047C@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 31-Jan-06, at 16:26, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 03:39:21PM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >> 600KBps = 4800Kbps = 4.8Mbps >> >> Which is 96% of 5Mbps or 80% of 6Mbps. Assuming that you're talking >> about download speed as reported by your web browser or some other >> application, that's not very good delivery. If you really want to >> measure it, you'll need to start snooping around your traffic totals >> and such as reported by ifconfig (among others). >> > > I go by the report from wget and apt-get. They seem fairly accurate. Sure, but they only measure throughput of the file you're transferring. They don't include any of the overhead. You need to consider the overhead as well if you're going to make a serious analysis of the actual speed of your connection. > If I can have a 576KB/s average for a 30 minute download (my > machine was > a little behind up updates once) then I think it is fairly accurate. > hitting a max of about 95% of the physical wire speed seems pretty > good. > hitting 80% would be pathetic. Uh... 80% isn't amazing, but it's not too bad, at least in my opinion. Have you looked at packet loss rates? > Hence why I still think it is 5Mbit. > Makes me roll my eyes at Bell's new adds claiming to be 5 times faster > than rogers. They don't say up to 5 times faster, and they don't say > compared to which rogers service. So obviously Bell must be > offering a > 25Mbit connection now. Where do I sign up? :) Oh, is that their new wireless thing? Personally, I think I'll wait until there's fiber options available before I ditch the cable. Rogers has been sufficiently reliable, at least for me. However we have a fiber connection at work... >> So... maybe you want to buy a different service? > > I don't have much choice at this time. I had a nice DSL connection > that > allowed servers, ran 3Mbit (on a good day) and a static IP. Then I > moved, and can't get DSL at the new place. After a year bell still > reports it as 'coming soon'. Well, if it's really that important, you could certainly move again. Or, consider it the next time you do move. __________________________________________________ Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Data Services Group Manager, Afilias Canada Corp. Ltd. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD3+Nbgfzn5SevSpoRAli0AKCNg+NOhIKds27c80KZH3DCdFDaOgCcD4iB lYpip9Mz7A0HjqM0lNaTXf0= =1KmX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 22:47:42 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:47:42 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990601311350g4f87cac7y67fb66550287021f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990601311350g4f87cac7y67fb66550287021f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060131224742.GA10947@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 03:50:41PM -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/31/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I don't have much choice at this time. I had a nice DSL connection that > > allowed servers, ran 3Mbit (on a good day) and a static IP. Then I > > moved, and can't get DSL at the new place. After a year bell still > > reports it as 'coming soon'. > > For small values of "soon" ;) Yeah: 1 + 1 = 3 (for sufficiently large 1) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 22:50:28 2006 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:50:28 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <35820ADD-D28B-4BA0-A184-D316CA98481A-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <35820ADD-D28B-4BA0-A184-D316CA98481A@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <43DFE9B4.7060408@rogers.com> > Ok, you want a written SLA, 8 up .64 down and all for less than $100. > With a couple of static IPs or maybe a /28. I'm not asking for a CIR or anything, just a piece of paper that actually tells me what they are giving me and under what terms -- with useful technical info *and* the legalese boilerplate. And info that tells me to what extent they'll back me up or if they'll fold like pussies the moment someone complains I telnet'd to their server's smtp port to get their MTA version. Oh, and that they'll tell me a healthy chunk of time before they make changes to the TOS and not sneak them in. A static IP would be nice, but I could make do with a dynamic one when I really think about it. A couple addresses would be nice too. Heck, the addresses in my area are practically static anyways the leases stick around so long. You're telling me they can't offer a 'power-user/soho' package with two IPs (one static IP, one dynamic), 8 up 800 down (same as the extreme package), totally let you run servers, live techs without wading through voice-mail, with a decent SLA or guarantee, perhaps a reasonably priced one-time domain registration fee, and do this all for $100, or at least under $120? C'mon. Maybe if they took care to prevent people leaching cable service (or stopped letting people receive cable for 6 months after they 'cut' your service) so they could make some more cash I'd cut them some more slack. And they could probably cut out any of that useless portal crap that no-one uses if that exists anymore. > If you do manage to find someone, and they're in business for > more than three months, please let me know. That's not too far off from the truth, sadly. The moment I do, *everyone* will know :) We really need some cable-internet carrier competition. Rogers are douches. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 23:13:07 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:13:07 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <35820ADD-D28B-4BA0-A184-D316CA98481A-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <35820ADD-D28B-4BA0-A184-D316CA98481A@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20060131231307.GA3793@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 05:09:35PM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Personally, once I went with gmail, I never looked back. Hosting my > own email was a good learning experience, but in the end it was just > a pain. I only did it to get the spam filtering, which gmail has. YMMV. Besides, they have $Billions behind their servers. You can't beat that, no matter how much money you care to spend. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 31 23:51:35 2006 From: nyetwork-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:51:35 -0500 Subject: So Rogers has lost me as a customer... In-Reply-To: <6AE472F1-9C2A-42C5-BA3C-73B96336047C-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <43DBC89C.9040701@rogers.com> <20060130215118.GU18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20601301524m72b28055j898ac9f3bb90c764@mail.gmail.com> <20060131165422.GW18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1E59F4F2-B44D-49E6-B3BA-938A1AB5DCAD@ca.afilias.info> <20060131212625.GZ18971@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <6AE472F1-9C2A-42C5-BA3C-73B96336047C@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <17c359fc0601311551v3dd5dfa8rfda06d6747aad0fd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/06, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > Hence why I still think it is 5Mbit. > > Makes me roll my eyes at Bell's new adds claiming to be 5 times faster > > than rogers. They don't say up to 5 times faster, and they don't say > > compared to which rogers service. So obviously Bell must be > > offering a > > 25Mbit connection now. Where do I sign up? :) > > Oh, is that their new wireless thing? Personally, I think I'll wait > until there's fiber options available before I ditch the cable. > Rogers has been sufficiently reliable, at least for me. However we > have a fiber connection at work... EVDO, the "new Bell wireless thing" is only around 2.4 Mbps. There is a 25 Mbps service being rolled out, but you can only get 5 of actual internet off it - the other 20 are being used to deliver IPTV. 2 channels at 10Mbps per. Over a traditional phone line, currently only rolled out to a few CO's. But screw the next-gen DSL. I'd like some FTTP please :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml