Installfest thoughts

Thu Sep 15 04:52:36 UTC 2005

--- ed <edward.chin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:50:12 -0400, Marcus Brubaker 
> <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It really seems that GTALUG has a very serious
> communication problem and
> > this event just goes to illustrate it.  According
> to one post on this
> > thread, this other form was posted on August 10th
> and run through some
> > set of clearings.
> 
> Yes, communication seems to be a problem. If Colin
> McGregor would have 
> read the list he posted to, he would have known
> about the release/waiver. 
> Instead of checking to see if we already had a
> release/waiver form,(which 
> we did)Colin McGregor proceeded to prepare one of
> his own. Since his issue 
> was of liability, it may  have been more efficient
> to submit that form to 
> his lawyer, but as noted in his last post:

I have paid fairly close attention to the mail list.
If there was a release/waiver form checked by a local
lawyer posted to the list then I missed it and I
apologize for that.

> "I don't trust ANY form that has NOT been checked by
> a
> local lawyer. As the form Eddie came up with was not
> checked by a local lawyer, I don't trust it,
> period."
> 
> "I didn't even totally trust the lawyer I contacted,
> with reason. When I got the first draft back from
> the
> lawyer, I checked it as closely as a non-lawyer can
> check things, and saw one trivial word that seemed
> out
> of place, so I asked about it. Yes, even lawyers on
> occasion can/do make typos. So again, it is a case
> of
> check, double and triple check things. When it may
> be
> your tail on the legal line, trust no one."
> 
> 
> Colin has some serious issues beginning with trust
> and ending in 
> communication. Colin never brought any of his
> concerns to the GTAlug 
> executive before posting his complaints. As a member
> of the executive he 
> could have mentioned something to the rest of us.
> Colin has been invited 
> many times to run and become a member of the Board
> of Directors. He has 
> the opportunity to effect change, I encourage him to
> do it.

I am NOT a member of the executive. I have attended a
few executive meetings but I would not / do not claim
to be a member of said group.

Further to the best of my recollection I have not been
seriously invited to become a member of the board.
When I spoke to Gordon Chillcott by phone Tuesday
afternoon he suggested (seriously I think) that I
might get drafted into the GTALUG board. The problem
being that as a non-member of GTALUG, I don't know if
it would be appropriate for me to be on the board.

Now, why have I not plunked down $20 and become a
member of GTALUG? Well, there are multiple answers,
running from I am cheap, I have doubts about where the
money is going, but the key reason comes down it
wouldn't be appropriate.

Why not appropriate? Well, I have been involved with
the Toronto Free-Net since May 1993, during which time
I have held quite a few posts, Co-chair of the
Hardware/Software committee, Board member, and yes,
President of the TFN. Yes, I am still involved in the
TFN. During that time I have ... "forgotten" ... to
turn in some receipts for out of pocket expenses, but
the total amount of money I have spent on a TFN
membership stands at ... $0.00.

A question I do not intend to hear seriously asked,
never mind a question I plan to answer is "Why have
you spent $$ for a GTALUG membership, while you have
spent $0.00 on the TFN?".

Now, I have no qualms about treating the GTALUG the
way I treat TFN, as long as the stuff is more-or-less
interesting/enjoyable I will be happy to put in a lot
of volunteer time/effort. I will even "forget" some
out of pocket expenses, but I am not going to give
more money to one over the other (and I don't plan to
give any money to the TFN any time soon). If this
isn't good enough for GTALUG then I will, with a
certain amount of regret, go elsewhere. There are
other interesting technically oriented volunteer
projects out there...

As for legal stuff, you will see for example in my
writing:

  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7127
  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8081

that while the focus of the articles is customizing
Knoppix, I do pay attention to legal issues. Why do I
not kid around with this stuff? Well again we come
back to the Toronto Free-Net.

When the Toronto Free-Net opened to the public in
November 1994 we knew we were taking some legal risks.
Technically the TFN was at that point not LEGALLY
considered a "common carrier" the way the phone
companies are, so things like liable by any TFN member
could have been dropped in our lap. We limited our
risk with a release form that was checked with a fine
tooth comb by local lawyers, but yes, there still were
risks, and we knew that going in.

Not that long after the Toronto Free-Net opened we had
a character who I will call Brainless Ass (or B.A. for
short). B.A. at that point was already ... known ...
to the board for some of the stuff he had done at past
board meetings (demands that the Free-Net be run on
Macintosh computers with a proprietary closed source
software package). Any event this one morning I
checked my e-mail and there was an e-mail from B.A.,
sent to all board members with what under Canadian law
was clearly child pornography (a fictional description
of sexual relations between an adult and a young
child). Under the law it is an offence to have child
pornography, for any reason, it doesn't matter how you
got the stuff or why.

I was talking to the TFN's lawyer on the phone less
than five minutes after seeing that e-mail, and yes
you had better believe the lawyers instructions were
followed to the letter and QUICKLY. 

At a board meeting that came not that long after B.A.
showed up angry that his TFN account had been
suspended, and he was angry that by searching the
Internet via the TFN he had been able find child
pornography. In both respects we on the board were
evil, we were not to be thanked for a LOT of volunteer
hours offering a free basic Internet service. 

In my case for a time there I was scared as to the
sort of @#$% that might come down on my head
personally, a fear I don't plan to experience again
and why I don't play games when it comes to legal
issues. So, am I a bit tough regarding the release
form? Yes, on the other hand I am NOT going to be in
court because someone used a release form that leaves
a loophole under Ontario law.

> And lest we forget it. We are ALL volunteers at
> GTAlug and we value the 
> contribution of everone who participates - even if
> it is by merely 
> listening.

Not true. I have seen volunteers in the TFN who were
consistently abusive, illogical, and obnoxious towards
other volunteers. There are a small number of
volunteers who's net contribution is negative. Such
volunteers, while very few in number need to be
steered out of the group ASAP.

For example, we had one such volunteer in the
Hardware/Software Committee who would very loudly
demand that technical issues that were decided within
a matter of five minutes by ten or so people in the
room be re-re-re-explained to him. So we would spend
five minutes deciding one thing then the next 30
minutes dealing with this one person and him ending up
angry because the other 10 people in the room had not
explained things clearly enough to him. When I told
him the Hardware/Software Committee no longer wanted
his volunteer services he appealed that to the board,
another fight ensued, with the board for a time
ordering that he be taken back by the
Hardware/Software Committee... In the end he was
turfed, but it was a pain all the way.

Sorry to say, but there are a very small percentage of
people who are not worth the trouble...

> Lastly, congrats to the new members of the Board of
> Directors of GTAlug: 
> Seneca Cunningham, Christopher Browne, and William
> Park.
> They join Drew Sullivan and Gordon Chillcott who
> have been hard at work 
> giving direction to the LUG.

Yes, all good people, and from my past experiences, I
offer them my sympathy :-) .

> Now, we know who to complain to! :)

No, now we know who to help.

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