From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 00:21:06 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:21:06 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? Message-ID: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> Is anyone aware of any magical tricks for speeding up mplayer, or do I finally have to give in and replace my 1999 Dell 450 mhz PIII with a faster machine? I was checking out some internet TV stations on http://wwitv.com and mplayer simply can not keep up with a 45 or 100 kbit feed. I've done all the optimizations I can think of... - running X at 16bpp with BlackBox as the WM - running Gentoo linux with tweaked compile flags, namely... CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" - sse and mmx are also in my USE flags Here's the start of the mplayer diagnostics when I connect to an Argentinian site... bash-2.05b$ mplayer -playlist http://wwitv.com/_tv/6990b.asx MPlayer 1.0pre6-3.3.5-20050130 (C) 2000-2004 MPlayer Team CPU: Intel Pentium III Katmai/Pentium III Xeon Tanner (Family: 6, Stepping: 3) Detected cache-line size is 32 bytes MMX2 supported but disabled CPUflags: MMX: 1 MMX2: 0 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 0 Compiled for x86 CPU with extensions: MMX SSE I don't see mmx2 anywhere in /proc/cpuinfo. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 00:42:49 2005 From: Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steven Nagy) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:42:49 -0400 Subject: Annoying wireless router In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <20050501004259.5506B1215B1@acheron.ss.org> Hi, Thank you everybody for the answer. I changed the default SSID the first time when I configured my router. I put a very strange name :) I tried today channel 3, channel 1 and then channel 11. On each occasion I had interruptions. When I was using channel 1, my router's signal and another router's signal from the neighborhood was very similar: http://www.stevenscreations.info/Download/Channel1.jpg When I used channel 11, when the 000000000000 AP appeared, my signal was disturbed very much and even the neighbor's signal. Or maybe the environment disturbs my router also and makes it happen to appear a 000000000000 AP. With channel 11: http://www.stevenscreations.info/Download/Channel11.jpg Then I tried channel 10, and something interesting happened. After I restarted the router, I saw it transmitting on both channels 10 and channel 11. In this situation the signal of my neighbor was even worse. :) But when I had interruptions he had too. And sometime a new Access Point seems to show up wit a MAC address of 000000000000 with the same SSID as mine, for a very short time that causes a gap in the normal AP signal. That's why I think my router is defective. But this wouldn't explain the fact that the neighbor's signal is sometime similar. Here is the situation when I programmed the router to channel 10: http://www.stevenscreations.info/Download/Channel10.jpg After a while I closed NetworkStumbler and reopened it and the channel 11 disappeared. (It shouldn't have had to be there even before because my router was configured to channel 10.) Here is the signal level in this situation: http://www.stevenscreations.info/Download/Channel10_2.jpg Does it help if I change from compatibility mode 802.11b/g to use just 802.11g? I thought maybe it's easier for the router to not keep the compatibility. What means that there are just the channels 1,6, and 11 which are non-overlapping? Shouldn't I try then the other channels? I couldn't try Kismet, because I cannot use my wireless under Linux yet. I have a Broadcom 54g MaxPerformance 802.11g wireless incorporated in my Compaq Presario R3000 laptop. Linux didn't recognize it and I don't have rivers for it. I know I could use ndiswrapper as we discussed earlier and use a Windows driver, but I didn't have time to try it to recompile ndiswrapper with my Suse 9.1 kernel. Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 01:02:11 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:02:11 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050430132917.E28062-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <20050430132917.E28062@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <42742A93.1000809@sympatico.ca> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > In principle I agree, but don't underestimate the utility of a spreadsheet. but equally, don't overestimate the seeming functional equivalence of two things with rows and columns. A spreadsheet is a good small dataset analysis tool, and a passable data entry medium. See Risks Digest (particularly vol 20.84, "Report on hacker altering MIT grades: NOT!", , and following articles in later volumes) for more details. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 05:39:02 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 01:39:02 -0400 Subject: Annoying wireless router In-Reply-To: <20050501004259.5506B1215B1-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501004259.5506B1215B1@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <200505010139.02937.jason@detachednetworks.ca> > > Does it help if I change from compatibility mode 802.11b/g to use just > 802.11g? I thought maybe it's easier for the router to not keep the > compatibility. For testing purposes it might be beneficial to switch to "b" only mode. > > > What means that there are just the channels 1,6, and 11 which are > non-overlapping? Shouldn't I try then the other channels? > Take a look here. http://www.taurus2.plus.com/pics/802_11b_overlap.png If any 2 channels in use within range of each other overlap, then a performance hit is taken. If you can get someone to scan your area for you using kismet it might be beneficial. kismet will detect cloaked networks while netstumbler will not. It does sound like either interference or hardware problems. Looking for interference can be difficult. One item that has caused grief for me in the past is cheap motion sensor lighting systems. They too run in the 2.4ghz band. If you or our neighbors have one of these lights, try cutting the power to it and see if that makes a difference. Or easier still, take your hardware to a differnet location ( ie. friends house ) and test it there. Still the same problem, and I would lean towards hardware/configuration. If the problem is gone, it is interference. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 14:29:39 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:29:39 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? In-Reply-To: <20050501002106.GA21454-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 4/30/05, Walter Dnes wrote: > Is anyone aware of any magical tricks for speeding up mplayer, or do I > finally have to give in and replace my 1999 Dell 450 mhz PIII with a > faster machine? I was checking out some internet TV stations on > http://wwitv.com and mplayer simply can not keep up with a 45 or 100 > kbit feed. I've done all the optimizations I can think of... What video card are you using? There are a number of optimizatons available for Nvidia cards. You can get low-end 5200 cards that support hardware decoding. Try mplayer -vo help, it should list the available optimizations with your version of mplayer. You can try Xv or XvMC if its available, or re-compile to enable them. On an older system like that you might get better performance running mplayer directly with the frame buffer ( without X11 ). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 14:49:21 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:49:21 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba Message-ID: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> Next project for my little Debian-server-that-could: set up a 'public' share with Samba so that all clients on the LAN can read and write to it. I've been able to configure it, using SWAT, so that I can access my users home dir on the server from my desktop, but there does not appear to be any option for creating a 'public' share. I checked the 'Official Samba HowTo' for clues, but found no specific mention of how to create a publicly shared folder. Any hints appreciated! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 10:41:38 up 69 days, 11:50, 7 users, load average: 0.12, 0.08, 0.02 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 15:09:37 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 11:09:37 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <4273BE52.6050803-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> Patrick Allen wrote: > Peter wrote: > >> If I get it right it's like this: >> >> - you save tlug messages to a certain folder all the time >> - for the last week or so opening that folder causes thunderbird to >> freeze > > >> yes ? > > > > Actually, it happened yesterday. I've got the same problem for about one week :-) Using Mozilla mail currently. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 15:10:28 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 11:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: last day for cheaper registration for Ottawa Linux Symposium Message-ID: OLS is pretty good. I missed it last year. Hope to be there this year. http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2005/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 17:02:55 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 20:02:55 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <4274F131.8000108-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 May 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Patrick Allen wrote: >> Peter wrote: >> >>> If I get it right it's like this: >>> >>> - you save tlug messages to a certain folder all the time >>> - for the last week or so opening that folder causes thunderbird to >>> freeze >>> yes ? >> >> Actually, it happened yesterday. > I've got the same problem for about one week :-) > Using Mozilla mail currently. I have pinned it down tighter: The bug appears when there is a thread in which I posted and then someone replied and I posted again. Then, the thread will have two messages with the same id, and one of them (the latter one) will point to the id of the previous one (in References:). But since it will have the same id, it will point to itself. The threading mechanism probably chokes on this entering an endless loop. I think that it may be possible to avoid the bug by turning threading off for that folder. I do not use Thunderbird. Is that possible ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 17:41:38 2005 From: kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Kevin C. Krinke) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 13:41:38 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1114969298.29850.407.camel@onest8> On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 10:49 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Next project for my little Debian-server-that-could: > > set up a 'public' share with Samba so that all clients on the LAN can read and > write to it. > > I've been able to configure it, using SWAT, so that I can access my users home > dir on the server from my desktop, but there does not appear to be any option > for creating a 'public' share. I checked the 'Official Samba HowTo' for clues, > but found no specific mention of how to create a publicly shared folder. > > Any hints appreciated! Here's what I've used in the past. Edit /etc/samba/smb.conf and add this block to the end of the file, then restart samba after saving the file. ############################################# [public] comment = Publicly shared files browseable = yes writable = yes create mask = 0644 directory mask = 755 public = yes guest ok = yes path = /path/to/your/public/directory ############################################# -- Kevin C. Krinke Open Door Software Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 17:49:05 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 13:49:05 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050501134905.1081d3e0.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sun, 1 May 2005 10:49:21 -0400 JoeHill disseminated the following: > Next project for my little Debian-server-that-could: > > set up a 'public' share with Samba so that all clients on the LAN can read and > write to it. > > I've been able to configure it, using SWAT, so that I can access my users home > dir on the server from my desktop, but there does not appear to be any option > for creating a 'public' share. I checked the 'Official Samba HowTo' for clues, > but found no specific mention of how to create a publicly shared folder. > > Any hints appreciated! Okay, I looked at the smb.conf on my Mandrake desktop, and it gave an example for setting up what I want, a browseable share, but I still cannot access it from my wife's WinXP box. Here is the entry: # A publicly accessible directory [public] comment = Public path = /home/samba/public read only = No browseable = Yes public = yes writable = yes and yes, I did restart the samba service. The directory shows up in Windows Exploder, but cannot be read or accessed in any way. As usual, I'm probably missing something obvious. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 13:43:48 up 69 days, 14:53, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Que se vayan todos!" -- Protesters demanding the removal of the corrupt American puppet regime in Ecuador -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 18:15:47 2005 From: Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Nezumikozo) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:15:47 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <20050501134905.1081d3e0.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20050501134905.1081d3e0.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42751CD3.6010103@sympatico.ca> Here is my smb.conf file that I have been running on Mandrake 10.0 for about a year with nice results with similar purposes as Joe. I am accessing it from 2 Windows XP and 1 dual Mandriva/XP boxes. This might be a chance to see if I have some gaping security holes (outside my LAN) or mistakes... [global] workgroup = WORKGOUP NAME log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m netbios name = SERVERS_NETBIOS_NAME server string = Samba Server %v socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192 security = share dead time = 15 use sendfile = no printcap name = cups disable spoolss = Yes show add printer wizard = No printing = cups [public] comment = Public Folder (audio, video etc) path = /path/to/folder force user = name_of_my_main_user_ID force group = users read only = No guest ok = Yes [printers] comment = All Printers path = /var/spool/samba printer admin = users_names guest ok = Yes printable = Yes use client driver = Yes browseable = Yes For me, the global section was the hardest to tweak. Nice performance gains with socket setting and use sendfile settings. Do forget to refresh your Explorer window once you restart samba. And, if I remember right, turning on "Simple file sharing" in XP Pro was a key issue. (Windows Explorer -> Tools -> Folder Options -> View -> Use Simple File Sharing (Recommended)) Jay JoeHill wrote: >On Sun, 1 May 2005 10:49:21 -0400 >JoeHill disseminated the following: > > > >>Next project for my little Debian-server-that-could: >> >>set up a 'public' share with Samba so that all clients on the LAN can read and >>write to it. >> >>I've been able to configure it, using SWAT, so that I can access my users home >>dir on the server from my desktop, but there does not appear to be any option >>for creating a 'public' share. I checked the 'Official Samba HowTo' for clues, >>but found no specific mention of how to create a publicly shared folder. >> >>Any hints appreciated! >> >> > >Okay, I looked at the smb.conf on my Mandrake desktop, and it gave an example >for setting up what I want, a browseable share, but I still cannot access it >from my wife's WinXP box. Here is the entry: > ># A publicly accessible directory >[public] > comment = Public > path = /home/samba/public > read only = No > browseable = Yes > public = yes > writable = yes > >and yes, I did restart the samba service. The directory shows up in Windows >Exploder, but cannot be read or accessed in any way. > >As usual, I'm probably missing something obvious. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 18:27:45 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 14:27:45 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <1114969298.29850.407.camel@onest8> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1114969298.29850.407.camel@onest8> Message-ID: <20050501142745.70b5f7ce.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sun, 01 May 2005 13:41:38 -0400 Kevin C. Krinke disseminated the following: > > I've been able to configure it, using SWAT, so that I can access my users > > home > > dir on the server from my desktop, but there does not appear to be any > > option > > for creating a 'public' share. I checked the 'Official Samba HowTo' for > > clues, > > but found no specific mention of how to create a publicly shared folder. > > > > Any hints appreciated! > > Here's what I've used in the past. Edit /etc/samba/smb.conf and add this > block to the end of the file, then restart samba after saving the file. > > ############################################# > [public] > comment = Publicly shared files > browseable = yes > writable = yes > create mask = 0644 > directory mask = 755 > public = yes > guest ok = yes > path = /path/to/your/public/directory > ############################################# Okay, first off, I'm an id10t. I didn't create the appropriate path, ie. /home/samba/public. I'm at the point now where if I open the shared dir on the Win box, I can see inside, but I cannot write to it. I believe I have a perms problem. Currently I have: joehill at node3:/home$ ls -l total 56 drwxr-xr-x 27 joehill joehill 4096 2005-05-01 12:03 joehill drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 49152 2004-09-20 04:37 lost+found drwxr-sr-x 3 root staff 4096 2005-05-01 13:51 samba I would imagine I have to chown, but to what? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 14:20:33 up 69 days, 15:29, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.02 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world - bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are whores for power and oil with hate and fear in our hearts." -- Hunter S. Thompson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 19:10:14 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 15:10:14 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> Message-ID: <42752996.6000205@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > On Sun, 1 May 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: > >> Patrick Allen wrote: >> >>> Peter wrote: >>> >>>> If I get it right it's like this: >>>> >>>> - you save tlug messages to a certain folder all the time >>>> - for the last week or so opening that folder causes thunderbird to >>>> freeze >>>> yes ? >>> >>> >>> Actually, it happened yesterday. >> >> I've got the same problem for about one week :-) >> Using Mozilla mail currently. > > > I have pinned it down tighter: > > The bug appears when there is a thread in which I posted and then > someone replied and I posted again. Then, the thread will have two > messages with the same id, and one of them (the latter one) will point > to the id of the previous one (in References:). But since it will have > the same id, it will point to itself. The threading mechanism probably > chokes on this entering an endless loop. I think that it may be > possible to avoid the bug by turning threading off for that folder. I > do not use Thunderbird. Is that possible ? > > Peter I couldn't try turning off the threading because I couldn't get in to the folder that had the bad e-mail and don't know of a way to turn it off globally. Your e-mails up to Apr. 24 seem OK, but had to delete the others. I worked backed one day at a time (using vi) and T-Bird always failed until I got to the 24th. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 19:12:01 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 15:12:01 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050430170202.GA2752-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430170202.GA2752@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/30/05, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 12:09:21PM -0400, phil wrote: > > I guess the question is, anyone know of a project designed to bring an > > all-in-one database solution to end users such that conceptually easy > > things are, in fact, easy to do? (Does anyone think it's even > > possible?) > > > > Any general comments about database ease of use, or lack thereof, are > > also of interest. > > How about SQLite? It's one file, much like GDBM. As for GUI frontend, > I'm not sure. SQLite is no better an answer than any of the other suggestions as it is not usable by itself. To use it, you have to add something else. Thus, given the requirement to install at least two packages, one of them might as well be PostgreSQL ;-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 19:16:09 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 15:16:09 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <42742A93.1000809-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <20050430132917.E28062@diamond.ss.org> <42742A93.1000809@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 4/30/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > In principle I agree, but don't underestimate the utility of a spreadsheet. > > but equally, don't overestimate the seeming functional equivalence of > two things with rows and columns. A spreadsheet is a good small dataset > analysis tool, and a passable data entry medium. See Risks Digest > (particularly vol 20.84, "Report on hacker altering MIT grades: NOT!", > , and following > articles in later volumes) for more details. If all of the data will fit on the screen, then I think I'd go along with the idea of using a spreadsheet for the task. If the data won't all fit on screen, it is guaranteed that you have to start to think about questions like "How will I access this?" and "How will I summarize this?" If you're of a particular sort of clever sort, then APL or a would-be successor such as J, K, or perhaps R should leap to mind. Those are powerful, powerful, powerful tools for the purposes of applying reductions to things to get summaries. :-) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Clemens.Martin-C3J+V8YpfQQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 19:29:26 2005 From: Clemens.Martin-C3J+V8YpfQQ at public.gmane.org (Clemens Martin) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 15:29:26 -0400 Subject: Slightly OT: graduate degree in IT Security at UOIT Message-ID: I met some of you during Linux World a couple of days ago, decided to join - and, since Linux plays a pretty vital role in the program, was encouraged to let the LUG know about the following: It's a news release about our new graduate program in IT Security. If any of you has questions, feel free to contact me directly (or if you feel it it is worthwhile to have a discussion on the list, leave it here) ---- For Immediate Release Thursday, April 21, 2005 UOIT to offer first Canadian Master's program in IT security OSHAWA, Ont. - Beginning in September 2005, the University of Ontario Institute of Technology (UOIT) will offer a Master of Information Technology Security-the first of its kind in Canada and one of few specialized IT security graduate degree programs in the world. Since the global IT security market is expected to grow to $45 billion by 2006, there is a definite need for increased protection. The UOIT Master's program will satisfy this market demand by allowing students to develop an extensive understanding of information technology security through theory and applied learning, while polishing their communications skills and examining business and IT ethics in a team environment. "This program will prepare students to work in a variety of high-tech positions for a wide range of firms-from business and financial corporations to government agencies," said Dr. Clemens Martin, director of IT programs at UOIT. As part of the program students will benefit from the UOIT Hacker Research Lab, which has been designed to host a variety of network equipment and wireless devices in a secured setting. In order to see all perspectives of security, lab assignments will include two teams working on a network-one group strives to secure the system, while the other goes on the attack and attempts to breach security. For more information on the Master of Information Technology Security, visit https://futureinmind.uoit.ca/uoit/profile/pubprog.jsp. About the University of Ontario Institute of Technology As the province's newest university, the University of Ontario Institute of Technology provides a unique combination of academic knowledge, vibrant student life, leading edge research, and hands-on skills. The university offers career-focused undergraduate degree programs in the fields of business and information technology, sciences, engineering, nursing, social science, and education. It is also developing leading edge research and graduate programs, and is Ontario's first laptop-based university. Sharing facilities and selected services with Durham College, UOIT has attracted over 1,800 students since its inception in 2003. To find out more, visit www.uoit.ca, call 1.866.844.8648 or Dr. Martin directly at 1-905-721-3111 x 2341. Dr.-Ing. Clemens Martin Director IT Programs and Hacker Research Laboratory Assistant Professor Faculty of Business & IT Faculty of Engineering & Applied Science University of Ontario Institute of Technology 2000 Simcoe Street North Oshawa, Ontario L1H 7K4 Canada (905) 721 3111 x 2341 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux.gentoo.user-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 20:24:06 2005 From: linux.gentoo.user-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Wells) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 16:24:06 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: <4271872A.7040605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f7ae1ac050427104325437b3d@mail.gmail.com> <4271872A.7040605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f7ae1ac050501132445579c8c@mail.gmail.com> Well, I am convinced I am either blind or I was just searching the wrong section of steels. I like to think the later :). Hopefully I can attend next months meeting, hope to see you all there! David Wells On 4/28/05, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 4/27/05, David Wells wrote: > > > >>Hey everyone, > >> > >>Well, I tried to make it to yesterday's meeting, I drove up steels > >>from mississauga to toronto and I could not find the IBM building > >>according to where it was on Google maps. > >> > >>I am quite upset I missed the meeting, I hope everyone had fun. If > >>anyone is attending the meeting and is in Oakville please let me know > >>and I would happily contribute for gas :) > > > > > > I have to say that it is a complex large enough that it should be > > difficult to miss. It is a very large building, complete with signage > > pointing you to a special IBM road. > > > > For future reference, a pretty good way to get there ought to be to > > take 401E to 404N and then get off at Steeles heading east. One > > corner (at which it should be a good idea to turn in) is at Steeles > > and Victoria Park. > > Actually, Victoria Park, is too far west. IBM is at the NE corner of > Steeles and Esna Park (Pharmacy Rd). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 21:18:03 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 17:18:03 -0400 Subject: TLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: <1f7ae1ac050501132445579c8c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f7ae1ac050427104325437b3d@mail.gmail.com> <4271872A.7040605@rogers.com> <1f7ae1ac050501132445579c8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4275478B.4090606@rogers.com> David Wells wrote: > Well, I am convinced I am either blind or I was just searching the > wrong section of steels. I like to think the later :). Hopefully I can > attend next months meeting, hope to see you all there! What main streets do recall seeing? That'll give us some idea about how far you got. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 1 22:53:26 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 18:53:26 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <42751CD3.6010103-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20050501134905.1081d3e0.joehill@sympatico.ca> <42751CD3.6010103@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050501185326.512af4ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sun, 01 May 2005 14:15:47 -0400 Nezumikozo disseminated the following: > security = share This made a difference in that I no longer had to enter a user and pass from the XP box to view the public folder, but I still cannot write to the shared dir. I'm sure this is a problem with perms on the shared dir, but I don't know what the appropriate perms should be :-\ -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:51:10 up 69 days, 20:00, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.08, 0.06 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 00:33:02 2005 From: Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Nezumikozo) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 20:33:02 -0400 Subject: Configure Public share on Samba In-Reply-To: <20050501185326.512af4ea.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501104921.0c3199bc.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20050501134905.1081d3e0.joehill@sympatico.ca> <42751CD3.6010103@sympatico.ca> <20050501185326.512af4ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4275753E.6050001@sympatico.ca> Joe, Force user to the user that owns the home directory containing your share. I am pretty sure that is why mine works. [private] comment = Private Folder (pics, docs, etc) path = /home/user/share force user = change this to the user owning the home directory above force group = users read only = No guest ok = Yes Jay JoeHill wrote: >On Sun, 01 May 2005 14:15:47 -0400 >Nezumikozo disseminated the following: > > > >> security = share >> >> > >This made a difference in that I no longer had to enter a user and pass from the >XP box to view the public folder, but I still cannot write to the shared dir. > >I'm sure this is a problem with perms on the shared dir, but I don't know what >the appropriate perms should be :-\ > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 01:25:06 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 21:25:06 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <4273CA68.5040606-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 4/30/05, David J Patrick wrote: > phil wrote: > > > I guess the question is, anyone know of a project designed to bring an > > all-in-one database solution to end users such that conceptually easy > > things are, in fact, easy to do? (Does anyone think it's even possible?) > > openoffice.org will sport an access-like database. I think they are > calling it "data",or something equally clever. You can try it today, > it's in the beta. It is unobvious whether this will be particularly usable in general. A fair number of the extensions getting added to OpenOffice.org seem to be Java apps, and the ability to include Java in Linux distributions is still pretty spotty. I don't see any JDK available for Debian other than in the non-free section, and I haven't seen much indication of alternatives to Sun's implementation being widely usable for general purposes. There are a bunch of alternative JVMs, but only spotty coverage of Java classes. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 02:25:22 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 22:25:22 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42758F92.5040909@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >On 4/30/05, David J Patrick wrote: > >>openoffice.org will sport an access-like database. I think they are >>calling it "data",or something equally clever. You can try it today, >>it's in the beta. >> >> > >It is unobvious whether this will be particularly usable in general. > > Has anybody played with it ? I just upgraded to the OO.o2 beta this afternoon, and have toyed with "base" for maybe 10 minutes. Although I know didly about DBs, it seems pretty spanky and usable. >I don't see any JDK available for Debian other than in the non-free >section, and I haven't seen much indication of alternatives to Sun's >implementation being widely usable for general purposes. > I understand your argument re: non-free, but Suns JRE has been quite good to me. > There are a >bunch of alternative JVMs, but only spotty coverage of Java classes. > > I honestly wouldn't know a java class from a beer glass. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 03:39:53 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 23:39:53 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? In-Reply-To: <20050501002106.GA21454-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>; from waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org on Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 08:21:06PM -0400 References: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050501233953.B30375@diamond.ss.org> You should have no problem with a 450 MHz P3. What else are you running (Window Manager, Eye candy etc...). I find that mplayer is okay with a processor as slow as 200 MHz but is a big memory hog. Also make sure you are getting the 45kbit sustained. Your network connection may be able to handle it, but you may be getting bursts instead of a sustained download speed. If you are getting that you are SOL. Its how ethernet works. Bill On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 08:21:06PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Is anyone aware of any magical tricks for speeding up mplayer, or do I > finally have to give in and replace my 1999 Dell 450 mhz PIII with a > faster machine? I was checking out some internet TV stations on > http://wwitv.com and mplayer simply can not keep up with a 45 or 100 > kbit feed. I've done all the optimizations I can think of... > - running X at 16bpp with BlackBox as the WM > - running Gentoo linux with tweaked compile flags, namely... > CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" > - sse and mmx are also in my USE flags > > Here's the start of the mplayer diagnostics when I connect to an > Argentinian site... > > bash-2.05b$ mplayer -playlist http://wwitv.com/_tv/6990b.asx > MPlayer 1.0pre6-3.3.5-20050130 (C) 2000-2004 MPlayer Team > CPU: Intel Pentium III Katmai/Pentium III Xeon Tanner (Family: 6, Stepping: 3) > Detected cache-line size is 32 bytes > MMX2 supported but disabled > CPUflags: MMX: 1 MMX2: 0 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 0 > Compiled for x86 CPU with extensions: MMX SSE > > I don't see mmx2 anywhere in /proc/cpuinfo. > > -- > Walter Dnes > An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will > eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, > and has a lower TCO, than linux. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 03:54:49 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 23:54:49 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <42758F92.5040909-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> <42758F92.5040909@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/1/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > >On 4/30/05, David J Patrick wrote: > > > >>openoffice.org will sport an access-like database. I think they are > >>calling it "data",or something equally clever. You can try it today, > >>it's in the beta. > >> > >> > > > >It is unobvious whether this will be particularly usable in general. > > > > > Has anybody played with it ? I just upgraded to the OO.o2 beta this > afternoon, and have toyed with "base" for maybe 10 minutes. Although I > know didly about DBs, it seems pretty spanky and usable. > > >I don't see any JDK available for Debian other than in the non-free > >section, and I haven't seen much indication of alternatives to Sun's > >implementation being widely usable for general purposes. > > > I understand your argument re: non-free, but Suns JRE has been quite > good to me. How do you get a copy included on an installation CD? For it to be treated as "infrastructure," you have to be able to include it on a Debian CD, a Fedora CD, a SuSE CD. As far as I can tell, that can't be done without violating licensing agreeements. I have a problem with the notion of making otherwise free software decidedly unfree by virtue of such requirements. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 04:46:19 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 00:46:19 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> <42758F92.5040909@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4275B09B.1090500@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >On 5/1/05, David J Patrick wrote: > >>I understand your argument re: non-free, but Suns JRE has been quite >>good to me. >> >> > >How do you get a copy included on an installation CD? > > you don't >For it to be treated as "infrastructure," you have to be able to >include it on a Debian CD, a Fedora CD, a SuSE CD. > >As far as I can tell, that can't be done without violating licensing >agreeements. > > you can't >I have a problem with the notion of making otherwise free software >decidedly unfree by virtue of such requirements. > > OK, I agree, it's a problem. We're up against the RMS double edged sword. How do we move away from a totally proprietary software environment, to a pure FLOSS environment without using cross platform stepping-stones that may be free, but not open source ? If we shun the (transitional) restricted-license tools, our FLOSS environment can be decidedly less functional, and as a result there is an argument for Just Using Windows. After all, most computer users are using it as a means to and end; run a business & survive. Personally, I'll accept the cross platform non-GPL solutions that make the FLOSS environment viable, while waiting for the all-GPL solutions to mature. Is that wrong ? The alternative is to simply accept that (as of yet) there are things that you can do in Windoze that you can't in linux, like run openoffice.org-base. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 06:04:23 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 02:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cheap 802.11g card that has a real LINUX driver Message-ID: Most 802.11g CardBus cards cannot be natively supported by LINUX because their specs are not released without an NDA. A really annoying state of affairs. The most pragmatic solution is to use Ndiswrapper. This is a LINUX kernel driver that actually interfaces a Windows driver with the LINUX kernel. A real tour de force. The downside is: - no source for the real driver - some functionality is lost - you don't punish manufacturers for failing to support LINUX The only fairly common 802.11g card that seems to have a native driver is the Netgear WG511. Not manufactured any more -- replaced by the WG511T that has no LINUX driver. Also (rumour): beware of WG511 cards saying "made in China". Anyway, Factory Direct is selling refurbished WG511's for $34.99 and offering a $15 mail-in rebate. They call it $19.99, but neglect the sales taxes that you don't get back plus the effort of doing a rebate. Still, a good price for a somewhat scarce commodity that is useful for LINUX folks. http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=NE0511 I bought one today. It seems to work with Fedora Core 3. One trick: there is binary-only firmware that you have to scrounge from the net. I know: "what's the difference between binary-only firmware and a binary-only driver" -- not much. Here's the home of the driver. It is in 2.6 apparently. http://prism54.org/ >From there you can find a source for the firmware and instructions for installing it. If you intend to buy one, do phone before making the trip. Factory Direct often runs out of things that they advertise. Often even before the ad shows up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 12:26:26 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:26:26 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050430155420.A30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Apr 30, 2005, at 3:54 PM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 03:36:30PM -0400, phil wrote: >> >> With DB software, it doesn't seem that there's any provision for >> "just >> getting something simple accomplished" before leaping off into the >> world of normalization, foreign keys, and the rest of the jargon. >> > I think you just answered your own questions. Databases are not meant > to do something simple. The things you want when you have something > simple to do is a spreadsheet. The caveat there is knowing when > something is simple and when it only seems simple. I don't really buy the idea that a spreadsheet is functionally equivalent to a simple database. But ignoring that for the moment, there's still the problem of different levels of complexity involving projects that people agree *do* require a database. Among those, there's still an issue of having an expertise requirement that's not proportional to the complexity of the problem. At the moment, I can't think of another class of software that I've ever used that's as forbidding to beginners...not development tools, not even application servers. Since Lotus Agenda had some features of self-organization and a great deal of beginner ease of use, I keep watching the Chandler project with hope. The overview sounds good, but the implementation details don't seem much beyond Palm Desktop. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 13:12:16 2005 From: dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: Hey, Absolutely classic problem. In the old days your vet sat at home in his basement and built a pet database using Filemaker Pro. You'd walk up to the receptionist with your cat, she'd look up your cat and say "right, this is little Felix who has six toes on his front left paws and he was last here six months ago. That vet was not a programmer but was able to do really sophisticated stuff. Today people write just about as much code as my dad wrote in the 70's with Fortran. The worst of all are Java and .Net where you have PHD Comp-sci folks churning out thousands of lines of code. With PHP or Cold Fusion there is some saving but as soon as you hit the database you hit a wall of complexity. I'm a long-time Perl programmer but I'm quick to recognize what a nightmare it is in most programmer's hands. C. J. Dent (sp) was the inventor of SQL I believe. It was way way worse before he came along in the 80's. He's been working on simplifying much more now with "business rules" engines... There are application builder tools out there which I'm quite unfamiliar with and they simplify life to an amazing degree BUT they generate code and after the first pass of adding your own custom business logic to it you are stuck with a mess. Along comes our company "Upstart". Three years ago we hit this problem where a client asked us for a relatively simple database driven app and we hit a wall of "laziness". We knew we could write a bit of code, design a few database tables etc. but we also knew that every time the client changes his mind we'd be stuck adjusting SQL statements and stuff all over the place and doing a complete recursion test. We also knew we'd have to charge him for that. There had to be a better way. We built this thing called "The Pointt" which allows one to create database driven apps whereby most of the common tasks are already sitting and waiting to be used. Doesn't matter if you need a database of cats, or clothes or orders or people who work in departments in companies ... you probably need "insert, update, delete, import and search". You probably want to make people "login" to do these tasks. We used a really wierd-o but extremely simple data warehouse data model where every "attribute" of an "object" (person, thing, order, ... whatever) is equal. With The Pointt you can "draw" your objects. The "insert, update, delete, import and search" screens draw themselves. You then lay overtop your really pretty design. If you need the data to come out in a fancy way like generating some crazy spreadsheet report then you are stuck writing a bit of SQL but only then!!! There is a builtin dashboard showing aggregate numbers of your data and a simple export to spreadsheet. We are many versions into this, have deployed many apps for Canon, Unilever, Mattel and others ... and are plowing ahead. Nobody we have ever showed this thing to has ever seen anything like it. We don't even know what to call it and have been struggling with the issue for years but at the moment we call it an "Information Management System". We built it in Cold Fusion instead of PHP because we wanted it to be able to take advantage of running not only on a simple single Linux server but also to deploy on a fortune 500 complex high-end IBM/Sun distributed computing crazy-failover-balanced Java J2EE environment. Would be happy to demo this at a TLUG. The beginner type can build a database driven web app in minutes!!! The expert type can build a very complex database driven web app in days instead of weeks or months. ========================================================= | David Mayerlen | Upstart Associates | http://www.upstartx.com | dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org | 416-424-6739 ========================================================= On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: > On Apr 30, 2005, at 3:54 PM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 03:36:30PM -0400, phil wrote: > >> > >> With DB software, it doesn't seem that there's any provision for > >> "just > >> getting something simple accomplished" before leaping off into the > >> world of normalization, foreign keys, and the rest of the jargon. > >> > > I think you just answered your own questions. Databases are not meant > > to do something simple. The things you want when you have something > > simple to do is a spreadsheet. The caveat there is knowing when > > something is simple and when it only seems simple. > > I don't really buy the idea that a spreadsheet is functionally > equivalent to a simple database. But ignoring that for the moment, > there's still the problem of different levels of complexity involving > projects that people agree *do* require a database. Among those, > there's still an issue of having an expertise requirement that's not > proportional to the complexity of the problem. At the moment, I can't > think of another class of software that I've ever used that's as > forbidding to beginners...not development tools, not even application > servers. > > Since Lotus Agenda had some features of self-organization and a great > deal of beginner ease of use, I keep watching the Chandler project with > hope. The overview sounds good, but the implementation details don't > seem much beyond Palm Desktop. > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 09:31:45 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 09:31:45 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050502093145.5ac723c4@mail.look.ca> At 09:12 AM 2005/05/02 -0400, David Mayerlen wrote: > > C. J. Dent (sp) was the inventor of SQL I believe. C. J. Date, not C. J. Dent. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 >========================================================= >| David Mayerlen >| Upstart Associates >| http://www.upstartx.com >| dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org >| 416-424-6739 >========================================================= -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 13:53:19 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:53:19 -0400 Subject: cheap 802.11g card that has a real LINUX driver References: Message-ID: <001801c54f1e$4c32ad90$6c486480@5042> ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" To: Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:04 AM Subject: [TLUG]: cheap 802.11g card that has a real LINUX driver > Most 802.11g CardBus cards cannot be natively supported by LINUX > because their specs are not released without an NDA. A really > annoying state of affairs. > > Still, a good price for a somewhat scarce commodity that is useful for > LINUX folks. > > http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=NE0511 > > I bought one today. It seems to work with Fedora Core 3. One trick: > there is binary-only firmware that you have to scrounge from the net. > I know: "what's the difference between binary-only firmware and a > binary-only driver" -- not much. > > Here's the home of the driver. It is in 2.6 apparently. > http://prism54.org/ >From there you can find a source for the firmware and instructions for > installing it. Is it safe to assume that because the card works on your system that the card model is not v2 or v3? According to the wiki those revisions are not supported: (http://prism54.org/phpwiki?pagename=Supported%20Cards) Is the wiki off or is the driver a little more robust -- or is the card indeed a v1? As a side note, with a little tweaking the dlink dwl-650+ can be configured with minimal problems for use. The only problem with that card is that it is only 802.11b. The driver at http://acx100.sourceforge.net even has a download binary-firmware function built in. Thoughts? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 13:54:05 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:54:05 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On May 2, 2005, at 9:12 AM, David Mayerlen wrote: > Absolutely classic problem. In the old days your vet sat at home in > his > basement and built a pet database using Filemaker Pro. And wasn't stuck with a web browser faking it as a general purpose user interface. Things like phpMyAdmin are clever, but really! > We built this thing called "The Pointt" which allows one to create > database driven apps whereby most of the common tasks are already > sitting > and waiting to be used. Does it exist as a product? (I tried the web site, but had trouble finding actual information amid the marketing stuff.) It sounds like you're on the right track where someone can start simply and then only need to get into heavy technicalities if the application grows. Seems to me there are two bad outcomes that need to be avoided: first, a project never getting started because the ramp-up cost (time, money, energy) is too high; second, project evolution being prevented by tool constraints (i.e. the "let's keep our contact list in MS Word" syndrome). > The beginner type can build a > database driven web app in minutes!!! How about non-web...again, going back to your Filemaker Pro example? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:09:12 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:09:12 -0400 Subject: cheap 802.11g card that has a real LINUX driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505021009.12912.jason@detachednetworks.ca> There's a good list of linux compatible wireless cards here, all with real linux drivers. no ndiswrapper allowed. http://detachednetworks.ca/Linux_Wireless_Cards.pdf -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:33:25 2005 From: dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: Hey, Still laughing that I wrote "C.J. Dent" instead of "C.J. Date". Forgot the URL to the The Pointt website: http://www.thepointt.com Yep, website ain't clear but I reiterate its hard to explain this thing to people. Yes our sales team wants to dump all sorts of "bumf" there and yep we could use some demos and perhaps an application/screen walkthrough with voice over in flash or whatever.... This thing is in fact for web, not for general desktop apps. Suffers from the classic problems of web interfaces we have attempted to make things useable as best we can. One bigger problem we find with users in general is the need for "instant gratification". We tell people that the first time they ever used a spreadsheet they were likely baffled and had to spend some time learning. Even when we say that people still complain they are not getting "instant gratification". Just about to go into my rant about "instant gratification" and "throw away society" and ... ok I managed to hold back. Yes this thing is "for sale" and we are targetting big US companies so it is "expensive" and the entry level copy is "$10,000 CDN". We do however build and deploy apps really quickly and host them on our servers for reasonable prices. Bringing US dollars into this fine country and employing Canadians is indeed part of our strategy. I'm not really posting here for sales reasons but because I'm an absolute huge fan of the kind of accomplishment that "C.J. Date" achieved. I'm also a big fan of whomever invented the toaster. The number of times I burned the hair off my knuckles making toast ... :-) Thats why I have never posted about this before over the last few years... ========================================================= | David Mayerlen | Upstart Associates | http://www.upstartx.com | dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org | 416-424-6739 ========================================================= On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: > On May 2, 2005, at 9:12 AM, David Mayerlen wrote: > > > Absolutely classic problem. In the old days your vet sat at home in > > his > > basement and built a pet database using Filemaker Pro. > > And wasn't stuck with a web browser faking it as a general purpose user > interface. Things like phpMyAdmin are clever, but really! > > > We built this thing called "The Pointt" which allows one to create > > database driven apps whereby most of the common tasks are already > > sitting > > and waiting to be used. > > Does it exist as a product? (I tried the web site, but had trouble > finding actual information amid the marketing stuff.) > It sounds like you're on the right track where someone can start simply > and then only need to get into heavy technicalities if the application > grows. Seems to me there are two bad outcomes that need to be avoided: > first, a project never getting started because the ramp-up cost (time, > money, energy) is too high; second, project evolution being prevented > by tool constraints (i.e. the "let's keep our contact list in MS Word" > syndrome). > > > The beginner type can build a > > database driven web app in minutes!!! > > How about non-web...again, going back to your Filemaker Pro example? > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:36:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:36:34 -0400 Subject: Any Recommendations for Linux Friendly Digital Still Camera? In-Reply-To: References: <20050429150442.13678.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> <20050429151523.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4272B094.8090201@sympatico.ca> <1114822435.7269.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4272F2A3.8070707@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050502143634.GJ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 10:44:16PM -0500, Sy wrote: > /me clutches chest and falls over > > A friend of mine was working in the industry and mentioned that the > "high end"cameras were bloody expensive and not nearly as good a ratio > of quality:cost as the mid range stuff. I don't know how applicable > that is today, or with that model though. > > For the google impaired: > http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/digitalcamera/slr/d70/ > http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/digitalcamera/slr/d70s/ > > OMG, reading the specs of some of those cameras.. there's a 12 > megapixel model.. dayum. Looking more.. the picture rate is > astounding. Time-to-photograph from completely off to picture one and > two is something I've been interested in. Remember that picture noise (which affects quality a lot) depends a lot on how much light the sensor gets, so in low light you want a larger sensor to get a good image quality, otherwise you get noise in the image (missing dots/graininess). Most small to mid range digital cameras have 50 to 100mm^2 sensors (even a $1000 8Mpixel olympus is about 97mm^2), while most of the DSLR cameras from nikon and canon are in the 200 to 400mm^2. As a result they can tak good pictures in about 1/4 the light level of the low to mid range cameras. They cost more for a reason, since you are really paying for the size and quality of the sensor, but especially the size. Of course a $2000 camera may be much more sensible than a $50000 camera in terms of feature/performance per dollar. At the same time a $1500 might be better value than a $750 camera if you want good pictures in low light conditions. I believe you can get DSLR's up around 30 - 40 Mpixel. 12 and 16 is pretty easy to get (but still not cheap). 30+ is very much not cheap. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:41:33 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:41:33 -0400 Subject: Any Recommendations for Linux Friendly Digital Still Camera? In-Reply-To: References: <20050429150442.13678.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> <20050429151523.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4272B094.8090201@sympatico.ca> <1114822435.7269.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4272F2A3.8070707@sympatico.ca> <42739022.7070707@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050502144133.GK2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 11:10:50AM -0500, Sy wrote: > I hadn't thought of the problems of action shots and scenes and such > with the bigger guys. I would hope they'd be more valuable than for > just portraits. I think I'm leaning more towards ruggesized (and > water resistant) smaller cameras.. because I don't like lugging > something around. Battery life is also a big issue. You can get underwater housings for many smaller digital cameras for $200 or less. At least I was told that was an option for my small digital camera. > For sure working with a huge MP rating would make for huge files.. I > don't think I could justify anything over 3MP to be honest.. although > maybe I should think about quality on-print more than on-screen, which > is how I've thought in the past. 3 to 5Mpixel is decent for the consumer level stuff today. At least I am very happy with the 3.2Mpixel SD200. The SD300 does 4Mpixel and the SD400 does 5Mpixel (adding about $100 per level it seems). Just don't try to take pictures in low light, since being a tiny camera, the sensor is small, and just can't do low light well at all. I suppose with a tripod and a very long exposure it could do something in low light. I haven't tried that yet. > whoa.. costly. But then I'd bet the optics in them are fantastic. > Man is that stuff expensive. I think a lot of high end cameras don't even include any optics in the price. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:47:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:47:25 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? In-Reply-To: <20050501002106.GA21454-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050502144725.GL2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 08:21:06PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Is anyone aware of any magical tricks for speeding up mplayer, or do I > finally have to give in and replace my 1999 Dell 450 mhz PIII with a > faster machine? I was checking out some internet TV stations on > http://wwitv.com and mplayer simply can not keep up with a 45 or 100 > kbit feed. I've done all the optimizations I can think of... > - running X at 16bpp with BlackBox as the WM > - running Gentoo linux with tweaked compile flags, namely... > CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" > - sse and mmx are also in my USE flags > > Here's the start of the mplayer diagnostics when I connect to an > Argentinian site... > > bash-2.05b$ mplayer -playlist http://wwitv.com/_tv/6990b.asx > MPlayer 1.0pre6-3.3.5-20050130 (C) 2000-2004 MPlayer Team > CPU: Intel Pentium III Katmai/Pentium III Xeon Tanner (Family: 6, Stepping: 3) > Detected cache-line size is 32 bytes > MMX2 supported but disabled > CPUflags: MMX: 1 MMX2: 0 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 0 > Compiled for x86 CPU with extensions: MMX SSE > > I don't see mmx2 anywhere in /proc/cpuinfo. I think mmx2 still shows as mmx, but on newer procesor models it had a few more instructions. mmx has almost never done anything useful so for the most part no one cares. sse has at least been useful. You can check the configure for mplayer and see if it has a -mmx2 option you could turn on. Hopefully it knows to pick the best option. For performance, the biggest thing is to have a video card that supports using xv (X video extension) and does YUV decoding in hardware. That probably uses about half the cpu if not more on your system when playing video. I know using a matrox G200 on a P2 400 I could play divx no problem when using xv or better yet the mga_vid driver which used YUV and scaling in hardware, while if I used x11 direct playback, I couldn't even play a DVD mpeg2 file. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:51:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:51:07 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! In-Reply-To: <20050430203307.GA31598-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4273C943.8060508@sympatico.ca> <20050430203307.GA31598@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050502145107.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 04:33:08PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > The "fix" is to delete those messages with dupe IDs, specifically those > > sent from the Thunderbird Slayer (peter) with ID > > "6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs at public.gmane.org" , by hand, using vi (or whatever > > your trusty text editor happens to be) > > > > In my case the process was > > make a copy of your Inbox (Inbox.borked) in case you screw up. > > $ vi /home/djp/Mail (this is a soft link, your path will vary) > > /Local\ Folders/Inbox > > / 6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs at public.gmane.org (find the ID > > move the cursor to the top pf the message, hit "V" to enter Visual mode, > > cursor down to the end of the message (say goodbye to the bogofilter > > thread) and hit "d" to delete the block. wash, rinse,repeat until the > > "string not found" > > :wq > > 1. Use 'mutt'. It will show duplicate with '=>'. > 2. Use 'formail'. (search -D option) Oh so that is why all peter's messages show up under another message all as duplicate messages even though the subject and content is different. I hadn't noticed the message id's matched on them (I had never imagined they could or would). I was wondering what his mailer was doing wrong. How annoying. At least mutt didn't mind, it just made all those messages appear completely out of order, out of context and hence completely broke threading. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:52:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:52:18 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 08:02:55PM +0300, Peter wrote: > I have pinned it down tighter: > > The bug appears when there is a thread in which I posted and then > someone replied and I posted again. Then, the thread will have two > messages with the same id, and one of them (the latter one) will point > to the id of the previous one (in References:). But since it will have > the same id, it will point to itself. The threading mechanism probably > chokes on this entering an endless loop. I think that it may be possible > to avoid the bug by turning threading off for that folder. I do not use > Thunderbird. Is that possible ? It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution is that you start using a mail system that works. What are you using that reuses message id's in such a broken way? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:55:51 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:55:51 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <20050502145218.GN2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502145551.GO2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:52:18AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 08:02:55PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > I have pinned it down tighter: > > > > The bug appears when there is a thread in which I posted and then > > someone replied and I posted again. Then, the thread will have two > > messages with the same id, and one of them (the latter one) will point > > to the id of the previous one (in References:). But since it will have > > the same id, it will point to itself. The threading mechanism probably > > chokes on this entering an endless loop. I think that it may be possible > > to avoid the bug by turning threading off for that folder. I do not use > > Thunderbird. Is that possible ? > > It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution > is that you start using a mail system that works. > > What are you using that reuses message id's in such a broken way? Actually I am wrong. It wasn't peter. I am trying to remember who it was... Hmm. It was always the same user though so someone out there has a very broken mail system going (or did for a while at least). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:59:01 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:59:01 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <20050502145551.GO2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050502145551.GO2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502145900.GP2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:55:51AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution > > is that you start using a mail system that works. > > > > What are you using that reuses message id's in such a broken way? > > Actually I am wrong. It wasn't peter. I am trying to remember who it > was... Hmm. Hmm, well now I read peter said it was him, so I guess I did remember right initially. Too much email and too much spam to filter out (although bogofilter has certainly reduced that a lot so far). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:00:13 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cheap 802.11g card that has a real LINUX driver In-Reply-To: <001801c54f1e$4c32ad90$6c486480@5042> References: <001801c54f1e$4c32ad90$6c486480@5042> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | Is it safe to assume that because the card works on your system that the card | model is not v2 or v3? I think so. My card has no version number mentioned on it. I would guess that makes it version 1.0. It says "Made in Taiwan" rather than "Made in China", which is a good sign. Interestingly, there is a blank where the Serial number should be. Perhaps due to bein refurb. BTW, the the refurbing was done by or for Netgear since it came with a 3 month Netgear refurb warranty. I mention this because the word "refurbish" could mean anything including "Joe had a look at it". | According to the wiki those revisions are not | supported: (http://prism54.org/phpwiki?pagename=Supported%20Cards) Too bad the Wiki does not explain how to look at a card and tell if it will work. | Is the wiki off or is the driver a little more robust -- or is the card indeed | a v1? My sources (i.e. other users in a support group for my particular notebook) say similar things. But they may all come from the Wiki. | As a side note, with a little tweaking the dlink dwl-650+ can be configured | with minimal problems for use. The only problem with that card is that it is | only 802.11b. The driver at http://acx100.sourceforge.net | even has a download binary-firmware function built in. I've used DWL650 (number from memory) without having to add drivers to Red Hat something-or-other. As I understand it, one trouble is that one 802.11b member of an 802.11g wireless network drives all participants to 11mbps (or less). So sometimes you really want everyone to be 802.11g. | Thoughts? It is really annoying that LINUX support for wireless cards has gotten worse since the 802.11b days. The fault is with the chip manufacturers or (their excuse) the US Federal Communications Commission. The long arm of US regulation. Insult to injury: my notebook came with a Broadcom 802.11g interface in the form of a miniPCI card. It is unsupported in LINUX -- specs are proprietary. If I try to swap with a supported miniPCI card, it won't work because the notebook's BIOS has a whitelist of supported cards. Anything not on the whitelist causes the BIOS to balk. The excuse given, again, is regulatory approval. I might bite the bullet and try ndiswrapper (actually ndiswrapper64) because built-in 802.11g is better than PCcard. - no delicate antenna sticking out - built in antenna is probably larger (around screen, I think) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:19:55 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:19:55 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org>; from phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 02, 2005 at 08:26:26AM -0400 References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> > > I don't really buy the idea that a spreadsheet is functionally > equivalent to a simple database. But ignoring that for the moment, > there's still the problem of different levels of complexity involving > projects that people agree *do* require a database. Among those, > there's still an issue of having an expertise requirement that's not > proportional to the complexity of the problem. At the moment, I can't > think of another class of software that I've ever used that's as > forbidding to beginners...not development tools, not even application > servers. > I suggest that you give a non-administrator the job of setting up a non-trivial samba set up and see how far they get. Or give a non-expert a highly templated MSOffice environment (ie there is a template for every document, cross templates for linked documents, etc ...) like that found in a law office and see how far they get doing any work. The reality is that some jobs need specialized knowledge and simply because they look easy on the surface, that doesn't mean they are easy. Consider that recombinate DNA technology looks very simple on the surface. The concepts are fairly easy to understand (DNA creates mesRNA which creates protiens via ribosomes), the methodology is also quite simple to do (basic acid base chemistry to break up and reconbine dna, a single enzymes that reproduces the resulting DNA in a medium heat environment, and a simple vector to put the DNA into a cell). But once you understand the basics of recombinate DNA technology the hard part begins (design a protien that will cure the common cold). Databases are in much the same situation. The concepts are easy to understand (store information in rows and columns), the methodology is also fairly easy to understand (SQL92), but once you have that, the hard part (modelling the problem and defining the constraints around the problem) begins. Remember you are not complaining about database technology, you are complaining about the levels of complexity of the project. It is for 'the complexity of the project' that database people get paid for. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:12:01 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:12:01 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! In-Reply-To: <20050502145107.GM2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4273C943.8060508@sympatico.ca> <20050430203307.GA31598@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050502145107.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502151201.GA19672@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:51:07AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Oh so that is why all peter's messages show up under another message all >as duplicate messages even though the subject and content is different. >I hadn't noticed the message id's matched on them (I had never imagined >they could or would). > >I was wondering what his mailer was doing wrong. How annoying. At >least mutt didn't mind, it just made all those messages appear >completely out of order, out of context and hence completely broke >threading. I had noticed this as well (I even take credit for first mentioning the "feature" to Peter) and I have a fix for mutt users. I deleted the Message-ID lines from the offending messages, and mutt's relaxed threading figured out where everything went based on subject and In-Reply-To addresses. If you have strict threads enabled you are SOL, but I don't, because there are too many broken mailers in the wild. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 14:13:58 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <20050502145218.GN2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution | is that you start using a mail system that works. By "you", Lennart meant "peter". That was dealt with long ago: Peter admitted that his MUA had a problem and that he would fix it (has fixed it, I suspect). The real point is that there is a serious bug in Thunderbird. Bad email can hang it. We wouldn't expect bad email would we? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:19:28 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:19:28 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502151928.GA19794@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:13:58AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >The real point is that there is a serious bug in Thunderbird. Bad >email can hang it. We wouldn't expect bad email would we? BAD EMAIL! SIT! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:24:19 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:24:19 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502152419.GR2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:13:58AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution > | is that you start using a mail system that works. > > By "you", Lennart meant "peter". Yeah that would be what I meant. :) > That was dealt with long ago: Peter admitted that his MUA had a > problem and that he would fix it (has fixed it, I suspect). Long ago being a few days (maybe a week). > The real point is that there is a serious bug in Thunderbird. Bad > email can hang it. We wouldn't expect bad email would we? Well certainly thunderbord has a bug. mutt doesn't die it just shows the message in the wrong place of the threads and marked as a duplicate message. Annoying but not broken. Thunderbird certainly appears broken. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:29:06 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:29:06 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502111955.C30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: (I know I'm starting to repeat myself and I'll stop soon, but....) On May 2, 2005, at 11:19 AM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I suggest that you give a non-administrator the job of setting up a > non-trivial samba set up and see how far they get. > > Or give a non-expert a highly templated MSOffice environment (ie there > is a template for every document, cross templates for linked > documents, etc ...) like that found in a law office and see how far > they get doing any work. However my point is that there are trivial uses of these things that don't require expert knowledge. If word processors forced you to do all the kerning by hand or some such thing then that would be a reason to tell a beginner to use something else for simple jobs. It may be overkill and it may be a waste of resources, but it doesn't present a massive barrier to getting started. > Remember you are not complaining about database technology, you are > complaining about the levels of complexity of the project. It is for > 'the complexity of the project' that database people get paid for. I have no problem with database people getting paid. In fact, more would be better. :-) My "complaint" is really about a big gap in technology between a word processor table (or spreadsheet) on one hand and PostgreSQL on the other. Or maybe it isn't a gap and I simply don't know what's there...it's a space that things like Filemaker (and maybe MS Access) seem to touch on, but for Open Source equivalents...? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:30:44 2005 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 11:30:44 -0400 Subject: weird ghosting of characters in X In-Reply-To: <20050429130044.GC2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050428201908.GA9163@utoronto.ca> <20050428205147.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050428211938.GC10095@utoronto.ca> <20050429130044.GC2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <427647A4.8050103@cogeco.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 05:19:38PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > >>thanks everyone. this is SO not what I wanted to hear. >> >>anyway, going out of town for a couple of weeks, when I get back I >>will try various hardwarrd configurations. hmm, I like the idea of >>taking off the monitor cover -- but it sounds kinda, I don't know, >>dnagerous? It can be dangerous as the CRT acts as a large capacitor and can store thousands of volts for very long periods of time. But if you're careful what you touch, you should be fine. Without seeing the image, it's hard to guess what adjustments will serve you best. In any case, they will likely only delay the inevitable. You've probably got an electrolytic capacitor somewhere that's failing. The flyback transformer (Big black thing on main board with thick cable going to the back of the CRT) usually has a couple of adjustment screws on it. One is for Focus, the other for screen voltage. Making an adjustment to the Screen Voltage may improve your picture somewhat in this case and it will be a lot simpler than doing a full Grey Scale balance. The adjustment is best done with an image to look at. So be very careful as the flyback transformer is the source of the big juice in a monitor. Some monitors have access ports in the cover than will allow you access with the right screwdriver. > I wouldn't do it. The only monitor I ever opened was a comodore amiga > monitor that the power switch broke on. That I knew how to fix (aka > bypass with a soldering iron and then use a cheap powerbar as the switch > externally). The rest of a monitor I won't go near. I don't like high > voltages. *grin* I've fixed three Commodore monitors with exactly the same fault. Great monitors though! Pat Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 15:42:09 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 11:42:09 -0400 Subject: weird ghosting of characters in X In-Reply-To: <427647A4.8050103-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20050428201908.GA9163@utoronto.ca> <20050428205147.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050428211938.GC10095@utoronto.ca> <20050429130044.GC2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427647A4.8050103@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <42764A51.4050507@rogers.com> Patrick Allen wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 05:19:38PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> >>> thanks everyone. this is SO not what I wanted to hear. >>> anyway, going out of town for a couple of weeks, when I get back I >>> will try various hardwarrd configurations. hmm, I like the idea of >>> taking off the monitor cover -- but it sounds kinda, I don't know, >>> dnagerous? > > > It can be dangerous as the CRT acts as a large capacitor and can store > thousands of volts for very long periods of time. But if you're careful > what you touch, you should be fine. > > Without seeing the image, it's hard to guess what adjustments will serve > you best. In any case, they will likely only delay the inevitable. > You've probably got an electrolytic capacitor somewhere that's failing. > > The flyback transformer (Big black thing on main board with thick cable > going to the back of the CRT) usually has a couple of adjustment screws > on it. One is for Focus, the other for screen voltage. Making an > adjustment to the Screen Voltage may improve your picture somewhat in > this case and it will be a lot simpler than doing a full Grey Scale > balance. > > The adjustment is best done with an image to look at. So be very > careful as the flyback transformer is the source of the big juice in a > monitor. Some monitors have access ports in the cover than will allow > you access with the right screwdriver. If you insist on working on the monitor, you must follow safety proceedures. *ALWAYS* keep one hand in your pocket. Keep power off, unless you're testing or making an adjustment that requires power. You should use non-metallic tools Don't go anywhere near the high voltage terminal on the CRT. That's the one that sticks out of the side of the tube. And stay away from the components it connects to. However, given the low cost of monitors, perhaps you'd be better off buying another one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 16:44:10 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 12:44:10 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050502164410.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 11:29:06AM -0400, phil wrote: > However my point is that there are trivial uses of these things that > don't require expert knowledge. If word processors forced you to do > all the kerning by hand or some such thing then that would be a reason > to tell a beginner to use something else for simple jobs. It may be > overkill and it may be a waste of resources, but it doesn't present a > massive barrier to getting started. Trivial jobs have a tendancy to evolve into not so trivial jobs. > I have no problem with database people getting paid. In fact, more > would be better. :-) My "complaint" is really about a big gap in > technology between a word processor table (or spreadsheet) on one hand > and PostgreSQL on the other. Or maybe it isn't a gap and I simply > don't know what's there...it's a space that things like Filemaker (and > maybe MS Access) seem to touch on, but for Open Source equivalents...? A big problem is that many people who "know" how to do things in Access, think they know how to solve all database problems know using of course, Access. Unfortuantely it doesn't scale, it sucks for anything more than one person at a time should have access to, and it's SQl query builder has many limitations (well it did when I used it many years ago, which resulted in me "learning" SQL and doing it myself.) Many companies are "stuck" with crap Access databases that do the job very badly because it seemed like a simple solution at the time that was just until they could do it right. Unfortunately it's in use and they never get around to doing it right later, and the staff would complain about having to learn a new way to do it (never mind if it would be faster and more useful). You are generally much better off never starting to use the crappy database wannabe's like Access in the first place. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:04:12 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:04:12 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: ; from phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 02, 2005 at 11:29:06AM -0400 References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 11:29:06AM -0400, phil wrote: > (I know I'm starting to repeat myself and I'll stop soon, but....) > > On May 2, 2005, at 11:19 AM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > I suggest that you give a non-administrator the job of setting up a > > non-trivial samba set up and see how far they get. > > > > Or give a non-expert a highly templated MSOffice environment (ie there > > is a template for every document, cross templates for linked > > documents, etc ...) like that found in a law office and see how far > > they get doing any work. > > However my point is that there are trivial uses of these things that > don't require expert knowledge. If word processors forced you to do > all the kerning by hand or some such thing then that would be a reason > to tell a beginner to use something else for simple jobs. It may be > overkill and it may be a waste of resources, but it doesn't present a > massive barrier to getting started. There are trivial things you can do with a database. The point your missing is that people turn to databases when the problem is non-trivial. The attitude was expressed well when earlier when it was pointer out that if a flat file can't be used the person immediately turns to a DB. I have no reason to believe that the problem can't be solved using a file sytem and flat files, but somewhere in the planning stage the complexity increases where a database pays off. Now if you had a simple application that needed to look up a row based on a unique ID, a database can do this trivially, but so can a flat file. You see know one in their right mind will use a database until the problem reaches a level of complexity that they personally feel they need a database. > > > Remember you are not complaining about database technology, you are > > complaining about the levels of complexity of the project. It is for > > 'the complexity of the project' that database people get paid for. > > I have no problem with database people getting paid. In fact, more > would be better. :-) My "complaint" is really about a big gap in > technology between a word processor table (or spreadsheet) on one hand > and PostgreSQL on the other. Or maybe it isn't a gap and I simply > don't know what's there...it's a space that things like Filemaker (and > maybe MS Access) seem to touch on, but for Open Source equivalents...? > Yes there is such equivalents. The point is one of philosophy. You want a packaging system that will install the GUI as well as the back end engine. MSAccess is actually multiple products one of which is the GUI that gets launched. You can install only the JET DB engine without the GUI. You can also install the GUI with ODBC drivers to a remote DB without the JET DB engine. The point is that a typical install installs both, while in the unix world one normally needs to install multiple packages. The applications you are looking for are out there and available for linux. The open source world has one of its core philosphies to separate out the different independant parts. The windows (and especially MAC) world has the philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one product. Neither side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. I prefer to be able too control what I put into my systems. Bill > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:15:37 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502164410.GS2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 02, 2005 at 12:44:10PM -0400 References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502164410.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502131537.E30375@diamond.ss.org> > > A big problem is that many people who "know" how to do things in Access, > think they know how to solve all database problems know using of course, > Access. Unfortuantely it doesn't scale, it sucks for anything more than > one person at a time should have access to, and it's SQl query builder > has many limitations (well it did when I used it many years ago, which > resulted in me "learning" SQL and doing it myself.) You have hit the nail on the head here. The problem is that Access makes database seem easy until you hit the limitations of Access (or more realistically your crappy data model). Databases by there nature are write once systems. Once you have them built and are in production, it is very hard to 'fix' them. Most procustion database fix problems by adding a new table, or creating a view (if the db person knows what they are doing) or loading data multiple times in different tables for different applications using them. I have seen databases that have 3 login tables, and 2 app_user tables because the application developers didn't know the tables existed, or the data model never allowed a method for seperating different users for different applications. Bad data modelling is the norm, and products like Access only encourage it. > > Many companies are "stuck" with crap Access databases that do the job > very badly because it seemed like a simple solution at the time that was > just until they could do it right. Unfortunately it's in use and they > never get around to doing it right later, and the staff would complain > about having to learn a new way to do it (never mind if it would be > faster and more useful). > > You are generally much better off never starting to use the crappy > database wannabe's like Access in the first place. Actually the database is less of a problem here than the people building the crap initially. I have seen the worst systems in DB2 MSSql, and Oracle. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:11:19 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:11:19 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502130412.D30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2 May 2005 13:04:12 -0400 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org disseminated the following: > The open source world has one of its core philosphies to separate out the > different independant parts. The windows (and especially MAC) world has the > philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one product. Neither > side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. I prefer to be able too > control what I put into my systems. Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share this same preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous results of putting out a software product with too much bloat built in (ie. Win)? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 13:08:25 up 70 days, 14:17, 6 users, load average: 1.68, 1.52, 1.39 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:14:17 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:14:17 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502130412.D30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On May 2, 2005, at 1:04 PM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Yes there is such equivalents. Names? > The point is one of philosophy. You want a packaging system that will > install the GUI as well as the back end engine. Heck, no. I want it as complex as possible so I can make lots of money explaining to the ignorant masses how they could never be competent enough to be trusted with control of their own data. :-) But, strangely enough, *The Users* seem to think in terms of solutions to their problems instead. > The point is that a typical install installs both, while in the unix > world one normally needs to install multiple packages. Yep...one byte at a time, each from a different URL, it sometimes feels like. :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:16:05 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:16:05 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502164410.GS2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502164410.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On May 2, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You are generally much better off never starting to use the crappy > database wannabe's like Access in the first place. Agreed, which makes me think it would be nice to have a package where the "For Dummies" user interface was nothing more than an interface and did its storage using something better (or a choice of somethings). Then, when the trivial job evolved, there'd be less trauma. Java's EJBs gets a lot of the sense of this right even if the implementation and the specifics have no relevance. In theory, you get control of everything when you need it, but you usually get OK defaults for things when you let "the system" take care of them. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:28:24 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:28:24 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On May 2, 2005, at 1:11 PM, JoeHill wrote: >> The windows (and especially MAC) world has the >> philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one >> product. Neither >> side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. I prefer to be >> able too >> control what I put into my systems. > > Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share > this same > preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous results of > putting out a > software product with too much bloat built in (ie. Win)? If non-techie adoption is considered desirable, there does have to be some compromise with the ease-of-use concept. Not to get into a "remember when" competition, but I've done useful work using filters and pipes. I've also installed Linux by starting with a kernel and building up from there. I really don't expect many people coming to the OS today -- especially if they're coming from other systems -- to be happy with the minimalist approach. The idea of keeping Unix-style systems only for the techno-elite has some merit, but it doesn't seem to be where most of the supporters are trying to go. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 17:36:49 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 13:36:49 -0400 Subject: Call for papers Message-ID: <1115055409.20033.90.camel@holden.weait.net> Ohio LinuxFest has put out a Call For Presenters. Contact them now to let them know what presentation you would like to give at Ohio LinuxFest 2005. (01 October 2004 - Columbus OH) http://www.ohiolinux.org/speaker-cfp.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 18:16:50 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:16:50 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org>; from phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 02, 2005 at 01:14:17PM -0400 References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050502141650.F30375@diamond.ss.org> > > > The point is that a typical install installs both, while in the unix > > world one normally needs to install multiple packages. > > Yep...one byte at a time, each from a different URL, it sometimes feels > like. :-) > No one is forcing you to use open source. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 18:13:47 2005 From: dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: > On May 2, 2005, at 1:11 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > >> The windows (and especially MAC) world has the > >> philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one > >> product. Neither > >> side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. I prefer to be > >> able too > >> control what I put into my systems. > > > > Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share > > this same > > preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous results of > > putting out a > > software product with too much bloat built in (ie. Win)? > > If non-techie adoption is considered desirable, there does have to be > some compromise with the ease-of-use concept. Not to get into a > "remember when" competition, but I've done useful work using filters > and pipes. I've also installed Linux by starting with a kernel and > building up from there. I really don't expect many people coming to > the OS today -- especially if they're coming from other systems -- to > be happy with the minimalist approach. > > The idea of keeping Unix-style systems only for the techno-elite has > some merit, but it doesn't seem to be where most of the supporters are > trying to go. I don't think that non-techie use is the goal. The goal is to "normalize" the amount of detail work. Funny how we rarely program in assembler anymore. Thats the whole point of what Upstart has done. Is a bit ridiculous to program some user/login tables. That has been done so many times before surely we can wrap that in a higher level package. We benefit in many ways not the least of which is security ... betcha at least half the programmers who build it from scratch don't get it right. Ever build a reusable code library in "C"? Given the opportunity most programmers seem to want to program everything from scratch and things take way longer than they should and then become unsupportable messes. Find common requirements. Wrap them in little black boxes that meet those requirements. > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 18:26:18 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:26:18 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org>; from phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 02, 2005 at 01:28:24PM -0400 References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050502142618.G30375@diamond.ss.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 01:28:24PM -0400, phil wrote: > On May 2, 2005, at 1:11 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > >> The windows (and especially MAC) world has the > >> philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one > >> product. Neither > >> side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. I prefer to be > >> able too > >> control what I put into my systems. > > > > Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share > > this same > > preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous results of > > putting out a > > software product with too much bloat built in (ie. Win)? > > If non-techie adoption is considered desirable, there does have to be > some compromise with the ease-of-use concept. At the OS level I agree, and the many distributions that try to package everything are an example of that, but a Database is not the OS. In fact a database isn't a user application, it is part of the infrastructure of an application. No one seriously believes that people need to know how a file system works to use the filemanager, but there are a lot of file systems that have never taken off because they are too complicated for the average user to use. The Andrew File System comes to mind with its admin, group and user level ACLs at the directory, files, and volume level. This kind of complexity has its uses (and it is used) but not to normal everyday people. The mistake people make with databases is believing that it is a user level application. Applications created on to of databases are what users look at. And when a database application fails your needs, its not the databases fault its the application developer's fault. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 18:16:48 2005 From: kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Kevin C. Krinke) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 14:16:48 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502130412.D30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <1115057808.29842.501.camel@onest8> On Mon, 2005-05-02 at 13:04 -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Neither side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. > I prefer to be able too control what I put into my systems. That is precisely the tipping point; control. Some are more apt to assume that their vendor knows best and is looking out to provide them with the right amount of control over their data. (Read: I use spreadsheets for everything and it's brother.) Others prefer to stick to their vendor not because they assume anything but instead because that is all they know and are not of the mentality to endeavour to learn something new when what they already know does the job just fine for them. These people don't want "more" control as they perceive that they've got enough control already. (Read: I use the entire office suite as it was "meant" to be used. Spreadsheets for data, slides for presentations, documents for reports, etc.) Control and trust go hand in hand. The above mentioned persons accept their available levels of control and work within those boundaries while trusting that what they're doing with the software is "The Right Thing" for them. However there are the paranoid; they do not trust what they explicitly do not have control over. These people like the ability to "look under the hood" in order to gain that trust within their software. Whether or not they actually read the code isn't important per-se but the mere fact that they can is more often enough to support their confidence. (Read: I use OpenOffice.org on Mac/*nix/Windows.) And then there are those that are paranoid but are also capable of learning new things and are not afraid of doing so. (Read: I use OpenOffice.org whenever someone else sends me an office-type document, otherwise I do my own thing that suites my needs perfectly and if it happens to help you to that's a bonus and I use *nix whenever possible.) I myself am of that last mentality and here's how I use the tools available for the job at hand: Spreadsheets: Frequency: Rarely, if ever. Examples : Excel, Calc, Gnumeric, etc. Reasoning: Only when someone else requests it or I need to "tweak" a .csv file before inserting the data into a database of some sort (flat or server). Flat Files: Frequency: Sometimes. Examples : Perl using ASCI/UTF-8 text files. Reasoning: Conceptually easy to understand. Directories and sub-directories are used for categorization and each file contains one or two (three at the most) bits of data. Only basic "querying" is performed. Only simple updating/inserting is performed. Only suited for local hosting of data. UI Driven Database: Frequency: Extremely rare. Examples : MS Access, OO.o Base Reasoning: Relies on version dependant software. Encourages bad UI design elements. Not really network friendly. Database Server: Frequency: Common. Examples : MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, etc. Reasoning: Performance, scalability and general lack of system dependant bottlenecks. Group data by tables and have as many columns as required to represent that data. Advanced querying and updating is permitted. Equally suited for local and remote hosting of data. Web based UI: Frequency: Common. Examples : CGI, HTML, XML, RSS, etc. Reasoning: Easily scaled for massive audience. Can be integrated with an existing web solution. Relatively intuitive interface due to the ambiguity of the web. Easily networked with a database server. Native UI: Frequency: Common. Examples : Gtk2, wx, Tk, etc. Reasoning: Easily customised interface that is specific to the solution required. Rich interface elements. High level of application interactivity. Easily networked with a database server. Anyways, those are my preferences for control. -- Kevin C. Krinke Open Door Software Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 19:33:54 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:33:54 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <20050502145218.GN2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:52:18 -0400 > From: Lennart Sorensen > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT > > On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 08:02:55PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> I have pinned it down tighter: >> >> The bug appears when there is a thread in which I posted and then >> someone replied and I posted again. Then, the thread will have two >> messages with the same id, and one of them (the latter one) will point >> to the id of the previous one (in References:). But since it will have >> the same id, it will point to itself. The threading mechanism probably >> chokes on this entering an endless loop. I think that it may be possible >> to avoid the bug by turning threading off for that folder. I do not use >> Thunderbird. Is that possible ? > > It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution > is that you start using a mail system that works. > > What are you using that reuses message id's in such a broken way? I changed something in the message id generation and I made a small mistake (printing from the wrong buffer). It is fixed now. RFC822 email is so broken you don't want to know about it. The Thunderbird 'slaying' was an accident, I do not use Thunderbird and it took two weeks for things to connect here. Missing threads on gmane, tlug email acting up, and mailman acting up on another list. Then W. O'Higgins mailed me and told me I have messages with dup ids and I said 'impossible' but I checked and he was right. It took between the 8th of April when I made the borked change and the 29th when he mailed me to clear the smoke. It is fixed now. The bug did not affect pine and other MUAs and mailing lists. mailman seems to have a problem with it, as does gmane, and in fact anything that relies on message ids to avoid duplicates. Of course threading by message id will break like this. If that is any consolation, most spam I receive on the same topic, has dup ids. On the other hand, the Thunderbird slaying bug only happens when the messages with the same id are answered (i.e. are in a thread). Then, there will be at least one message referring to itself (message-id appears in references). That's what slays the bird. It now has a bugtraq number and it should be fixed soon, it's probably trivial to fix (check own-message-id against references and prune if present - then thread by subject not by references). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 19:47:10 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:47:10 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: <20050502145218.GN2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution > is that you start using a mail system that works. The real solution is that you people start using a MUA that cannot be tied up in knots by the next best spam message typed in by anyone above the age of 7 in 5 minutes using a text editor. Let alone by an inadvertent typo made by someone (me) in the source code of the pine (sic!) MUA. Would you like me to post a message on this list with the headers (among others): From: innocent h. acker Message-Id: References: To: all who may be concerned just to test if you updated your software already ? I'll hold it off until you say it's ok to send, ok ? Just in case you want to send it to yourself, for testing purposes of course, you can use echo -e "hdr\nhdr\n\nmsg\nmsg\n..."|sendmail -t to inject any headers you like into the mail system without needing to modify any source code. And speaking of borked mail systems, guess where it is specified that the MTA should accept mail headers supplied by the MUA (hint, hint, no it's not pine, it's your supposedly secure MTA, but worse, it's in something that ends with 822). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 19:46:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:46:53 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050502194652.GT2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:33:54PM +0300, Peter wrote: > I changed something in the message id generation and I made a small > mistake (printing from the wrong buffer). It is fixed now. RFC822 email > is so broken you don't want to know about it. The Thunderbird 'slaying' > was an accident, I do not use Thunderbird and it took two weeks for > things to connect here. Missing threads on gmane, tlug email acting up, > and mailman acting up on another list. Then W. O'Higgins mailed me and > told me I have messages with dup ids and I said 'impossible' but I > checked and he was right. It took between the 8th of April when I made > the borked change and the 29th when he mailed me to clear the smoke. It > is fixed now. The bug did not affect pine and other MUAs and mailing > lists. mailman seems to have a problem with it, as does gmane, and in > fact anything that relies on message ids to avoid duplicates. Of course > threading by message id will break like this. If that is any > consolation, most spam I receive on the same topic, has dup ids. On the > other hand, the Thunderbird slaying bug only happens when the messages > with the same id are answered (i.e. are in a thread). Then, there will > be at least one message referring to itself (message-id appears in > references). That's what slays the bird. It now has a bugtraq number and > it should be fixed soon, it's probably trivial to fix (check > own-message-id against references and prune if present - then thread by > subject not by references). Well does RFC2822 say anything different about it given 822 is obsolete? Nifty side effect your small bug had, and I guess it found a bug in thunderbird no one had thought to try. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 19:57:53 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 15:57:53 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! aftermath In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42768641.8030300@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > On Mon, 2 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> It breaks all threading email clients in some ways. The real solution >> is that you start using a mail system that works. > > > The real solution is that you people start using a MUA that cannot be > tied up in knots by the next best spam message typed in by anyone > above the age of 7 in 5 minutes using a text editor. We thought we were using such an MUA. It's only thanks to your typo and subsequent 2+2= BUG ! that we know what went wrong, how to deal with it,and that the Mozilla mothership has been alerted. Thanks ! > Let alone by an inadvertent typo made by someone (me) in the source > code of the pine (sic!) MUA. Would you like me to post a message on > this list with the headers (among others): couldja wait a wee bit ? like till Tbird 1.0.3 ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:07:02 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:07:02 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: >>> philosophy of having everything and the kitchen sink into one >>> product. Neither side is right or wrong its a matter of preference. >>> I prefer to be able too control what I put into my systems. >> >> Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share >> this same preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous >> results of putting out a software product with too much bloat built >> in (ie. Win)? > > If non-techie adoption is considered desirable, there does have to be some > compromise with the ease-of-use concept. Not to get into a "remember when" Since when do economy class passengers know how to fly the plane, let alone design modifications for it (push the button and watch the landing gear come out - at 400 mph - oops you didn't know it was going to stall at that altitude ? oh, we sell upgrades that cover that situation) If it goes on everyone who ever used an internet cafe's services once can claim 'developer experience' credits towards a CS degree, no ? After all, they *did* post an empty blog message, no ? I have a little book here, by "Oszu and Valduriez, called 'Distributed Database Systems' or similar. Makes for interesting reading. Bring sandwiches and blanket. It applies to any database that is accessed by more than one writer at a time among other things. Oh, and it's an introductory academic text, not a solution book. Peter (no database expert) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:10:25 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:10:25 +0300 (IDT) Subject: thunderbird slayer bug: will be fixed in 1.1 release Message-ID: Please read this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=292458 resolution: upgrade to the latest 'trunk' build. The fix will be in 1.1 Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:17:53 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:17:53 -0400 Subject: thunderbird slayer bug: will be fixed in 1.1 release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42768AF1.2080008@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > Please read this: > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=292458 > > resolution: upgrade to the latest 'trunk' build. The fix will be in 1.1 well done, ol' chap ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:32:47 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:32:47 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050502163247.7236eb8b.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2 May 2005 23:07:02 +0300 (IDT) Peter disseminated the following: > >> Don't know much about DB, but doesn't anyone who 'knows better' share > >> this same preference? Have we not seen the sometimes disastrous > >> results of putting out a software product with too much bloat built > >> in (ie. Win)? > > > > If non-techie adoption is considered desirable, there does have to be some > > compromise with the ease-of-use concept. Not to get into a "remember when" > > Since when do economy class passengers know how to fly the plane, let > alone design modifications for it (push the button and watch the landing > gear come out - at 400 mph - oops you didn't know it was going to stall > at that altitude ? oh, we sell upgrades that cover that situation) I see your point, but to continue the analogy, I would not want to be stuck on the tarmac for 3 hours because Bill Gates overloaded the plane with excess baggage :-))) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:31:13 up 70 days, 17:40, 7 users, load average: 1.27, 1.32, 1.33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:45:17 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:45:17 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502141650.F30375-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502141650.F30375@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <173B426D-BB4B-11D9-81C8-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On May 2, 2005, at 2:16 PM, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >>> The point is that a typical install installs both, while in the unix >>> world one normally needs to install multiple packages. >> >> Yep...one byte at a time, each from a different URL, it sometimes >> feels >> like. :-) >> > No one is forcing you to use open source. What? It's heresy to think there's room for improvement? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 20:45:54 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:45:54 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, David Mayerlen wrote: > I don't think that non-techie use is the goal. The goal is to "normalize" The goal of the borg is to sell pretty animations for good money after making the user believe that he will be able to do with it what the big guys are doing, by clicking on a few buttons. The feature set that accomplishes that is known as the 'least common denominator' and it has become the standard in computing, after destroying all the parts of the industry that did not migrate to India or China or other one-diskette countries. I find it funny that certain relatives of mine spend hours on the phone explaining me how they fixed XP for the 4th time this month and that 'it works' (I have been running linux since 1996 as a desktop and I remember two crashes with data loss in this period: one hard disk and one SDRAM, about 5 years apart, and I have been building computers since about 1987 - by that I mean embedded to PC, including software and hardware). Imho a games psychologist is a must have consultatnt for any successfull computer project. Give the user a couple of animations to click on and he will feel *accomplished*. Add a couple of small hurdles to cross (intentional or not) and you have him hooked. You see, now he is an expert. He is confident that by clicking here and there he can fix his problem. It's brilliant. He will start his own blog and mailing list, tell others how to do things (without having a clue about why it worked), and be happy. And that's the point of it. His google ranking will grow. He will start selling advertising on his site. But it's not CS, it's user management and marketing. > the amount of detail work. Funny how we rarely program in assembler > anymore. Thats the whole point of what Upstart has done. Is a bit Speak for yourself. Some people program in assembly all the time. > ridiculous to program some user/login tables. That has been done so many > times before surely we can wrap that in a higher level package. We benefit > in many ways not the least of which is security ... betcha at least half the > programmers who build it from scratch don't get it right. Bugs are a part of programming. If something has 100 options and it is programmed by someone who has 98.5% error rate then it will have 1.5 bugs. How many options has your program got ? A 10,000 line program has about 400,000 characters. Assuming it is written by geniuses who manage 99.999% error rate it has only 400 typos, logic errors not counted. Who reviewed your code ? Is it open source or did you test it in house, between 12 pairs of eyes ? php for example is new and complex enough that there is not one security focus digest that does not mention it, or an application using it. About the same score as IE and IIS. Coincidence ? Reinventing the user friendly wheel and hot water comes at a price. Someone on another list has a sig along the lines of 'you can't ignore 20 years of experience'. I like that line very much. > Ever build a reusable code library in "C"? Given the opportunity most > programmers seem to want to program everything from scratch and things > take way longer than they should and then become unsupportable messes. Unless one programs by contract after an analyst determines what is really needed and lays down a roadmap, interface specifications, and a testing framework. Which is how CS is supposed to be done according to certain outdated books that were superseded by pritty multi-colored 400-page doorsteps that show plenty of screenshots of Java UIs for users in case they cannot find the 2 buttons on a form, or read the text in the screen font. Of course the bugs are still there, but now you can't fix them, since you have no access to the source ... it takes about 10x the lines of code to do something with a gui as opposed to without. Considering that no-one could afford to do complete testing of command line programs 20 years ago, draw your own conclusions. The pritty gui is a container for somebody other's bugs. The closed source kind being the kind that cannot be fixed if broken. But you can always purchase upgrades. > Find common requirements. Wrap them in little black boxes that meet those > requirements. And join the lemmings who feel so secure seeing so many others running in the same direction as they do. Want to stop and take a leak ? Can't. You'd get run over. Want to run faster ? Can't. Left, right ? What, are you antisocial or something ? Up ? Can you fly ? Stock market went to h at 11 because everyone was using the same futures prediction algorythm ? Oh well, blame it on the makers. Should have randomized it or something, since everyone was using that same particular black box, with its rounding errors and estimate bias and all that. You have a nice system and you have clients for it, and it works. That's good. That's what people call 'a solution'. Please don't try to sell fridges to the penguins. We got plenty of ice to cool things like that. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:00:05 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:00:05 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! aftermath In-Reply-To: <42768641.8030300-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42768641.8030300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, David J Patrick wrote: >> Let alone by an inadvertent typo made by someone (me) in the source >> code of the pine (sic!) MUA. Would you like me to post a message on >> this list with the headers (among others): > > couldja wait a wee bit ? like till Tbird 1.0.3 ? You need 1.1 to survive. My finger is on the button. Send candy now. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:09:12 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:09:12 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050502163247.7236eb8b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502163247.7236eb8b.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, JoeHill wrote: >> Since when do economy class passengers know how to fly the plane, let >> alone design modifications for it (push the button and watch the landing >> gear come out - at 400 mph - oops you didn't know it was going to stall >> at that altitude ? oh, we sell upgrades that cover that situation) > > I see your point, but to continue the analogy, I would not want to be stuck on > the tarmac for 3 hours because Bill Gates overloaded the plane with excess > baggage :-))) Well, it's ok, because you will not be stuck on the tarmac, at least in the beginning. You may be creamed on it later, but let's ignore that, who reads the fine print in that clickthrough contract anyway ?. They will take off anyway. Overweight, schmoverweight, they have powerful engines now, unlike those old piston aircraft. Never mind you will run out of fuel in mid-Atlantic and the pilot will have to hold the stick forward by standing on it with both feet all the way (*) Peter (*) I picked this up from a book about DC3s serving the America-Iceland-Europe cargo tour during WW2 - apparently they loaded the planes so heavily they had to fly like that for half the way or so - until the fuel load in the extra tanks in the fuselage was burned off. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:10:00 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:10:00 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <173B426D-BB4B-11D9-81C8-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502141650.F30375@diamond.ss.org> <173B426D-BB4B-11D9-81C8-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: >> No one is forcing you to use open source. > > What? It's heresy to think there's room for improvement? I thought improvement is the action that makes things better for the *user* Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:09:49 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 17:09:49 -0400 Subject: Thunderbird Slayer ! aftermath In-Reply-To: References: <4273BE52.6050803@cogeco.ca> <4274F131.8000108@almatau.com> <20050502145218.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42768641.8030300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4276971D.6090308@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > You need 1.1 to survive. My finger is on the button. Send candy now. NO ! WAIT ! gOObers, goodies, M&Ms and JellyBellies and are on the way ! u like nugat ? Mr Slayer, sir ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:28:07 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:28:07 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: ; from plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 03, 2005 at 12:10:00AM +0300 References: <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <9D5144D8-BB2D-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502141650.F30375@diamond.ss.org> <173B426D-BB4B-11D9-81C8-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050502172807.J30375@diamond.ss.org> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 12:10:00AM +0300, Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 May 2005, phil wrote: > > >> No one is forcing you to use open source. > > > > What? It's heresy to think there's room for improvement? > > I thought improvement is the action that makes things better for the > *user* > Different is sometimes an acceptable alternative to better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 21:21:06 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:21:06 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430133851.F28062@diamond.ss.org> <26DAB47A-B9AF-11D9-80E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050430155420.A30375@diamond.ss.org> <67262A8B-BB05-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050502111955.C30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502130412.D30375@diamond.ss.org> <20050502131119.144516ea.joehill@sympatico.ca> <963C9B4C-BB2F-11D9-9BFD-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: Replying to myself: I just did a small hardware project for myself that uses about 2300 lines of C (including comments etc). Even if it's only 1000 effective lines, including some reused libraries (written previously by me), it had about 5 more or less serious bugs (not typos) and it took a week to clear (about one bug per day). It means it was about 99.5% accurate at the start. The hardware took another week and is not counted here. It still has a bug I know of but I worked around it for now, for lack of time. How many lines did you say your perfect product had ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 22:42:20 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:42:20 -0500 Subject: weird ghosting of characters in X In-Reply-To: <427647A4.8050103-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20050428201908.GA9163@utoronto.ca> <20050428205147.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050428211938.GC10095@utoronto.ca> <20050429130044.GC2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427647A4.8050103@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On 5/2/05, Patrick Allen wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I wouldn't do it. The only monitor I ever opened was a comodore amiga > > monitor that the power switch broke on. That I knew how to fix (aka > > bypass with a soldering iron and then use a cheap powerbar as the switch > > externally). The rest of a monitor I won't go near. I don't like high > > voltages. > > *grin* I've fixed three Commodore monitors with exactly the same fault. Great > monitors though! Gah! So I'm not the only one who had a wacky power switch.. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 2 23:23:03 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 19:23:03 -0400 Subject: TLUG Executive Working Meeting May 3rd Message-ID: <006601c54f6d$e3d14720$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> There will be a TLUG executive working meeting Tuesday May 3rd at 326 Harbord Street (Linuxcaffe) starting at 7:30 PM. This is a short walk south of the Christie Subway station... To put some emphasis on things, this will be a WORKING meeting, as in all who are willing to work for a better TLUG are welcome, but emphasis on the work... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 02:43:34 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:43:34 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? In-Reply-To: <20050502144725.GL2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> <20050502144725.GL2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050503024334.GA19099@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:47:25AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > problem when using xv or better yet the mga_vid driver which used YUV What is the commandline invocation? The manpage sucks for readability. I tried "-vo xvidix:mach_64" and "-vo vidix:mach_64", but mplayer balked. "-vo xv" is a definite improvement over the default. And of course "-quiet" to stop useless console updates chewing up CPU cycles. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 02:47:35 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:47:35 -0400 Subject: Any mplayer optimization ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <20050501002106.GA21454@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050503024735.GB19099@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 10:29:39AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote > What video card are you using? ATI Rage 128. 4 or 8 megs of RAM. It is so-o-o-o-o 20th century. > Try mplayer -vo help, it should list the available optimizations with > your version of mplayer. You can try Xv or XvMC if its available, or > re-compile to enable them. Thanks. After some fiddling around, I've found that the the "-vo xv" option *DEFINITELY* helps. That one is a keeper unless I find hardware acceleration somewhere. I'm also including "-quiet", so mplayer doesn't waste CPU cycles updating a console with a running count of frames. I'm having a problem with the syntax. I'm trying to invoke with mplayer -vo vidix:mach64_vid (on this machine) and mplayer -vo vidix:radeon_vid (on another machine with a Radeon 7000) but mplayer doesn't like the invocation. That's my interpretation of the manpage, but it's really hard to decipher the manpage. What's the correct syntax? I've also tried "xvidix" instead of "vidix", and the result is the same. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 08:03:08 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 11:03:08 +0300 (IDT) Subject: an interesting take on small business IT Message-ID: more or less in the context of yesterday's discussion: http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 13:26:47 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 09:26:47 -0400 Subject: Consulting hints Message-ID: <20050503092647.B23422@ee.ryerson.ca> Interesting information for someone working as a consultant. http://www.goingware.com/tips/marketing.html Peter -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 14:19:36 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 10:19:36 -0400 Subject: weird ghosting of characters in X In-Reply-To: References: <20050428201908.GA9163@utoronto.ca> <20050428205147.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050428211938.GC10095@utoronto.ca> <20050429130044.GC2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427647A4.8050103@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20050503141936.GU2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 05:42:20PM -0500, Sy wrote: > Gah! So I'm not the only one who had a wacky power switch.. =) At least the 1084 had a pretty fragile power button. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 15:22:31 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 11:22:31 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> Message-ID: <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Even though MySQL lacks a lot of the features (triggers, etc) that > PostgreSQL has over it, I haven't really needed anything more advanced. How about such "features" as basic data valadation? Here's a comprehensive list of the numerous short-commings of MySQL. http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html There's a similar list for Postgres at the same site. It's a whole lot shorter. > Basically... this amounts to "the path of least resistance" and the "if > it's good enough for them it's good enough for me (until I need > something more)" mentality. Windows is good enough for the vast majority of computer users. If you don't know what to expect out of a database then it's not suprising that you'd be willing to settle for something as inferior as MySQL. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCd5c2gfzn5SevSpoRAvtcAKCBZiHLa6yCSq4k0eiTF97oOGQgYgCgxRLa JZ856IjE59FqAXfa1I/FgXY= =PRNS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 19:35:16 2005 From: dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 15:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <42779737.3090307-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: > Windows is good enough for the vast majority of computer users. If you > don't know what to expect out of a database then it's not suprising that > you'd be willing to settle for something as inferior as MySQL. > Here here!!! I totally agree. MySQL is the classic example of "its gonna be great someday". And when that day comes cool! For now I do use it but only for simple things. Can't wait until it finally has "views" which will be the coming version and that will finally make it somewhat useful! Sure is expensive free software however if you happen to care about support and stuff :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 20:36:47 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 16:36:47 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050503163647.rl26t0hnrjxcokso@almatau.com> Quoting David Mayerlen : ... > Here here!!! I totally agree. MySQL is the classic example of "its gonna > be great someday". And when that day comes cool! For now I do use it but > only for simple things. Can't wait until it finally has "views" which will > be the coming version and that will finally make it somewhat useful! Sure You don't need to wait, it's already great - tons of web applications, for example, come with MySQL in mind :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 21:35:05 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 17:35:05 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050503163647.rl26t0hnrjxcokso-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> <20050503163647.rl26t0hnrjxcokso@almatau.com> Message-ID: <4277EE89.2040007@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ilya Palagin wrote: >> Here here!!! I totally agree. MySQL is the classic example of "its gonna >> be great someday". And when that day comes cool! For now I do use it but >> only for simple things. Can't wait until it finally has "views" which >> will >> be the coming version and that will finally make it somewhat useful! Sure > > You don't need to wait, it's already great - tons of web applications, for > example, come with MySQL in mind :-) Tons of applications come with Windows in mind. That doesn't make it great. Tacking on more features when they still haven't solved the fundamental problems of data integrity is somewhere between comedic and tragic. Until MySQL can conform to standard handling of the basics (NULLs for example, http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html has a semi-canonical list), it will remain a toy. Applications based on it are almost impossible to port away from it because it fails to conform to SQL in numerous critical areas. Advocating it for a platform is an excellent way to demonstrate ignorance of everything related to the subject of databases. Choosing it for a platform amounts to demonstrable incompetence. Furthermore, MySQL also has numerous ongoing licensing issues. It is NOT free outside of strictly non-commercial environments. MySQL AB's definition of "distribute" doesn't appear to be inline with pretty much everyone else's on the planet, and lawyer time is even more not free. I am continually amazed by the outright stupidity of people who choose MySQL over Postgres when Postgres is both completely unencumbered (ie. BSD license) and obviously technically superior. And don't even get me started about MySQL's locking issues. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCd+6Jgfzn5SevSpoRApBsAKDHoitKXzkT/Aq+M+ZDnMgWVc1JvwCgg1wE ysIDaOKU97cXJjxukszlnYM= =i1N4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 21:48:02 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:48:02 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On 5/3/05, David Mayerlen wrote: > > > Windows is good enough for the vast majority of computer users. If you > > don't know what to expect out of a database then it's not suprising that > > you'd be willing to settle for something as inferior as MySQL. > > > > Here here!!! I totally agree. MySQL is the classic example of "its gonna > be great someday". And when that day comes cool! For now I do use it but > only for simple things. Can't wait until it finally has "views" which will > be the coming version and that will finally make it somewhat useful! Sure > is expensive free software however if you happen to care about support and > stuff :-) It seems totally erroneous to me to describe MySQL(tm) as "free software." The only way to be "safe" from paying thousands of dollars for lawyer evaluation time to ascertain if it is usable "gratis" or not is to pay licensing fees of on the order of $400/cpu USD. Look at their web site. They do NOT bill it as "the leading free software database." The word "free" never enters in, and if it comes up in discussion, their marketing staff denigrate it as some notion of "freeloaders misunderstanding free beer." It is worth pointing out that nobody expects you to send Linus Torvalds $400/CPU for using Linux, regardless of whether you use it for "commercial" purposes or not. When they denigrate the "free as in beer" side of the notion of "free software," I most certainly do get my back up about it. One of the VITAL reasons why Linux (and FreeBSD and others) emerged in the early 1990s and became of interest was the fact that it leave you FREE OF LICENSING FEES. There are numerous forms of freedom out there, and neither "free speech" nor "free beer" were incidental in the development of Linux. Both were vital aspects. If Linus had licensed Linux in the fashion that certain European companies have come to license their databases, it would have been nothing more than a curiosity. If the same principles that evidently hold for database products ought to apply all around, then we might be able to play as hobbyists with Linux for free at home, but if we used it for any sort of commercial purpose, we'd be expected to pay tens of thousands of dollars per host in order to do "commercial deployment." After all, the typical Linux system consists of scores of applications, so it would be necessary to multiply $400 by "scores," which rapidly gets you to the $10K/box range. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 22:06:10 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 18:06:10 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <4277EE89.2040007-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> <20050503163647.rl26t0hnrjxcokso@almatau.com> <4277EE89.2040007@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050503180610.2wv3fkf1nqwgs4sc@webmail.almatau.com> Quoting Andrew Hammond : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ilya Palagin wrote: >>> Here here!!! I totally agree. MySQL is the classic example of "its gonna >>> be great someday". And when that day comes cool! For now I do use it but >>> only for simple things. Can't wait until it finally has "views" which >>> will >>> be the coming version and that will finally make it somewhat useful! Sure >> >> You don't need to wait, it's already great - tons of web applications, for >> example, come with MySQL in mind :-) > > Tons of applications come with Windows in mind. That doesn't make it great. > > Tacking on more features when they still haven't solved the fundamental > problems of data integrity is somewhere between comedic and tragic. > Until MySQL can conform to standard handling of the basics (NULLs for > example, http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html has a semi-canonical > list), it will remain a toy. Applications based on it are almost Well, like any other subject, Windows and MySQL are good in a proper context. Windows is great for making money, MySQL advantage is mentioned below. > impossible to port away from it because it fails to conform to SQL in > numerous critical areas. Advocating it for a platform is an excellent > way to demonstrate ignorance of everything related to the subject of > databases. Choosing it for a platform amounts to demonstrable incompetence. > > Furthermore, MySQL also has numerous ongoing licensing issues. It is NOT > free outside of strictly non-commercial environments. MySQL AB's > definition of "distribute" doesn't appear to be inline with pretty much > everyone else's on the planet, and lawyer time is even more not free. I > am continually amazed by the outright stupidity of people who choose > MySQL over Postgres when Postgres is both completely unencumbered (ie. > BSD license) and obviously technically superior. Except for performance? > > And don't even get me started about MySQL's locking issues. > > - -- > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFCd+6Jgfzn5SevSpoRApBsAKDHoitKXzkT/Aq+M+ZDnMgWVc1JvwCgg1wE > ysIDaOKU97cXJjxukszlnYM= > =i1N4 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 23:27:13 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 19:27:13 -0400 Subject: Consulting hints In-Reply-To: <20050503092647.B23422-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050503092647.B23422@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1115162832.9327.3.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> My web site also has some advice for consultants/contractors: http://www.pegasoft.ca/proposals.html KB On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 09:26, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > Interesting information for someone working as a consultant. > > http://www.goingware.com/tips/marketing.html > > Peter > > -- > Peter D. Hiscocks > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > Ryerson University, > 350 Victoria Street, > Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada > > Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 > Fax: (416) 979-5280 > Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 01:10:40 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 21:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Consulting paper Message-ID: <50660.207.188.66.131.1115169040.squirrel@207.188.66.131> And while we're on the subject of consulting, this time for EE's: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock/papers/project.pdf There are some typos and omissions, but I've been told by battle-scarred veterans that it's useful information. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 12:25:30 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 12:25:30 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050503122530.4fa77aaa@mail.look.ca> At 12:34 AM 2005/03/24 -0500, Jamon Camisso Jamon Camisso wrote: >How occasionally? I don't know. If I knew of a place to do scanning, then I woul likely have more scanning to do. >My basement has a scanner and O.C.R software(s) >(Clara, kooka, xsane, along with a host of MS compatible *stuff*)... >Does that constitute a shop? Sure, why not ? Where are you located ? Give me a call or drop an e-mail. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 12:54:18 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 12:54:18 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: <4242B3E4.7000702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <4242B3E4.7000702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050503125418.4fa7111e@mail.look.ca> At 07:34 AM 2005/03/24 -0500, James Knott wrote: >James McIntosh wrote: >> Do you know shops which do scanning ? >> >> I want to scan 8 1/2 " x 11 " pages to create computer-readable files. >> >> Sometimes I want them scanned to graphical images. >> >> Sometimes I want them scanned to O.C.R. (optical character recognition), >> creating editable files in Microsoft Word, or in Microsoft Notepad. >> >> If you know of either type of shop, >> or if you are willing to occasionally provide this service, >> please let me know. > > >Why not get a scanner and do it yourself? All the required software is >available in Linux. It is not feasible to connect a scanner to my computer. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 3 13:03:21 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 13:03:21 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: <20050324160957.GE23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4242B3E4.7000702@rogers.com> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <4242B3E4.7000702@rogers.com> <20050324160957.GE23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050503130321.4fa78ede@mail.look.ca> At 11:09 AM 2005/03/24 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 07:34:44AM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> Why not get a scanner and do it yourself? All the required software is >> available in Linux. > >If you buy a scanner supported fully by sane. Many are not. I used to >have great luck with Epson scanners, but unfortunately they have >switched to using the snapscan chips instead of their own, so driver >development has become a lot slower, although still happening. Epson >was great at releasing programing specs for their own designs. It seems >to be much slower when the specs are someone elses. > >Lennart Sorensen It is not feasible for me to connect a scanner to my computer. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 04:24:38 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 00:24:38 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: <20050503180610.2wv3fkf1nqwgs4sc-2RFepEojUI3gJLRSikTpZ0EOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> <20050503163647.rl26t0hnrjxcokso@almatau.com> <4277EE89.2040007@ca.afilias.info> <20050503180610.2wv3fkf1nqwgs4sc@webmail.almatau.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/05, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Except for performance? What are you talking about? Rumours of the past? The only cases where people find MySQL to be consistently faster than other systems is when they run single-user, single-threaded, single-query benchmarks that were tuned specifically for it and where they simultaneously didn't bother doing a competent tuning job on the competing database systems. > > And don't even get me started about MySQL's locking issues. There would be a good case in point. What is most fascinating is the absence of published benchmarks for versions of MySQL more recent than version 3.23, and for any storage engine other than MyISAM. Certainly they wouldn't want reports on attempts to use MyISAM-based systems for any sort of concurrent update work, because that storage scheme requires granting complete table locks any a query modifies data, which has a pretty obvious effect, namely that it can't scale worth anything. And it would appear from the absence of benchmarks that perhaps InnoDB doesn't lead to performance that anyone wants written about. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 11:21:01 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 07:21:01 -0400 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050503125418.4fa7111e-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050503125418.4fa7111e@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4278B01D.1050409@rogers.com> James McIntosh wrote: > It is not feasible to connect a scanner to my computer. No USP, SCSI or parallel port??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 11:58:52 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 07:58:52 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? Message-ID: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> Hi, Just came across this article... http://www.geekinformed.com/content/view/138/1/ The part that caught my eye was: "Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to sue Canadian Citizens." This doesn't sound good :-) Has anyone seen any reaction to this from anyone? Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 08:38:26 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:38:26 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: <4278B01D.1050409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050503125418.4fa7111e@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050503125418.4fa7111e@mail.look.ca> <4278B01D.1050409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050504083826.592f5af0@mail.look.ca> At 07:21 AM 2005/05/04 -0400, James Knott wrote: >James McIntosh wrote: > >> It is not feasible to connect a scanner to my computer. > >No USP, SCSI or parallel port??? No space. --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 12:28:48 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:28:48 -0400 Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050503122530.4fa77aaa-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20050503122530.4fa77aaa@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4278C000.8000402@sympatico.ca> I wouldn't get your hopes up about the quality of Linux OCR. At best, it's a toy. Unless you can afford OCRShop, which I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy when it was $99 -- as opposed to the $1200 or so it is now. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 14:39:36 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 10:39:36 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA Message-ID: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> > > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to Canadian copyright law that >would allow US companies to sue Canadian Citizens." > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and the Bloc, than anything else. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 14:59:13 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:59:13 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <4278DEA8.4030203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050504105913.478b418a.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 04 May 2005 10:39:36 -0400 John McGregor wrote: > > > > > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to Canadian copyright law that > >would allow US companies to sue Canadian Citizens." > > > > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our > copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and > the Bloc, than anything else. Well, if it passes, I can just tell who's going to wind up getting the bone. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 14:59:28 2005 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:59:28 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <4278DEA8.4030203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> On Wednesday May 4 2005 10:39 am, John McGregor wrote: > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to > > Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to sue Canadian > > Citizens." > > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our > copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and > the Bloc, than anything else. > The bloc wouldn't like it and the Reform party wouldn't understand it. This bone was thrown to the south, where the profit it is to protect goes Charly Baker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 15:39:19 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 11:39:19 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <200505041059.28194.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: <20050504113919.1a594170.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 4 May 2005 10:59:28 -0400 Charly Baker wrote: > On Wednesday May 4 2005 10:39 am, John McGregor wrote: > > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to > > > Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to sue Canadian > > > Citizens." > > > > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our > > copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and > > the Bloc, than anything else. > > > The bloc wouldn't like it and the Reform party wouldn't understand it. This > bone was thrown to the south, where the profit it is to protect goes There's currently an attempt to get petitions to Ottawa to protest this move. (http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition) Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 15:44:13 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 11:44:13 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504113919.1a594170.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504113919.1a594170.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <4278EDCD.7010007@sympatico.ca> Rob Sutherland wrote: > There's currently an attempt to get petitions to Ottawa to > >protest this move. (http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition) > Lets have a stack of petitions on hand for the next general meeting (Tues,May 10) to sign on the spot and perhaps to take away for further signatures. Anyone up to the print out task ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 15:53:24 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 11:53:24 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... Message-ID: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG install fests starting in June. Further questions, date/time? Volunteers? Question arose about a GTALUG picnic, so I phoned the general inquiry number for Toronto Parks regarding a picnic spot, I did not note what group I was asking for. Anyway word is that for groups of under 25 people, at selected parks (some parks do not permit any picnics) no permit is required. A permit is required at selected parks for groups of over 25 people (and some parks with picnic facilities are not equipped for groups of over 25), the fee for a picnic permit is $53.50 and is non-refundable (so, if there is rain, or what ever, on the day we have booked tough...). Now, a GTALUG picnic I am sure would (baring rain, etc.) top 25 people, possibly it would top 100, so we are clearly talking permit required. Question is when and where? Question of take away items came up at the meeting, these are the sort of item(s) that we would give to everyone who became a member of GTALUG. My take on all this is that a GTALUG t-shirt is not all that interesting but what would be really neat would be the likes of a metal TUX PC case badge (for that 1 inch (2.5 cm) square hole in the front of your standard PC clone...). Some others at the meeting had a very different view. Which is better? If they can be done cheaply enough do we want to do more than one take away item (i.e. if you join GTALUG, you get not only the laminated member card, the very special TUX metal case badge for you PC, the bonus T-Shirt, all for one low membership fee, plus if you call in the next 15 minutes we will include a copy of Ubantu Linux, call our 1-800 number now....operators are standing by :-) )? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:09:36 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 12:09:36 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... Message-ID: 1. GTALUG is bit difficult to pronounce but OK to me. 2. install fest: more details, i.e. what we do in the event? 3. takeaways items: how about a M$ sux t-shirt? Just kidding. But user group is user group, no membership is required nor is membership care/pin or any sort of stuff. My 2 cents. -----Original Message----- From: Colin McGregor [mailto:colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] Sent: May 4, 2005 11:53 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Meeting updates... This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG install fests starting in June. Further questions, date/time? Volunteers? Question arose about a GTALUG picnic, so I phoned the general inquiry number for Toronto Parks regarding a picnic spot, I did not note what group I was asking for. Anyway word is that for groups of under 25 people, at selected parks (some parks do not permit any picnics) no permit is required. A permit is required at selected parks for groups of over 25 people (and some parks with picnic facilities are not equipped for groups of over 25), the fee for a picnic permit is $53.50 and is non-refundable (so, if there is rain, or what ever, on the day we have booked tough...). Now, a GTALUG picnic I am sure would (baring rain, etc.) top 25 people, possibly it would top 100, so we are clearly talking permit required. Question is when and where? Question of take away items came up at the meeting, these are the sort of item(s) that we would give to everyone who became a member of GTALUG. My take on all this is that a GTALUG t-shirt is not all that interesting but what would be really neat would be the likes of a metal TUX PC case badge (for that 1 inch (2.5 cm) square hole in the front of your standard PC clone...). Some others at the meeting had a very different view. Which is better? If they can be done cheaply enough do we want to do more than one take away item (i.e. if you join GTALUG, you get not only the laminated member card, the very special TUX metal case badge for you PC, the bonus T-Shirt, all for one low membership fee, plus if you call in the next 15 minutes we will include a copy of Ubantu Linux, call our 1-800 number now....operators are standing by :-) )? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:4278efa896571833411849! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:13:50 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 12:13:50 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <1115223230.26900.6.camel@localhost> ? ???, 04/05/2005 ? 11:53 -0400, Colin McGregor ?????: > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > install fests starting in June. > > Further questions, date/time? Volunteers? > > Question arose about a GTALUG picnic, so I phoned the general inquiry number > for Toronto Parks regarding a picnic spot, I did not note what group I was > asking for. Anyway word is that for groups of under 25 people, at selected > parks (some parks do not permit any picnics) no permit is required. A permit > is required at selected parks for groups of over 25 people (and some parks > with picnic facilities are not equipped for groups of over 25), the fee for > a picnic permit is $53.50 and is non-refundable (so, if there is rain, or > what ever, on the day we have booked tough...). Now, a GTALUG picnic I am > sure would (baring rain, etc.) top 25 people, possibly it would top 100, so > we are clearly talking permit required. Question is when and where? > > Question of take away items came up at the meeting, these are the sort of > item(s) that we would give to everyone who became a member of GTALUG. My > take on all this is that a GTALUG t-shirt is not all that interesting but > what would be really neat would be the likes of a metal TUX PC case badge > (for that 1 inch (2.5 cm) square hole in the front of your standard PC > clone...). Some others at the meeting had a very different view. Which is > better? If they can be done cheaply enough do we want to do more than one > take away item (i.e. if you join GTALUG, you get not only the laminated > member card, the very special TUX metal case badge for you PC, the bonus > T-Shirt, all for one low membership fee, plus if you call in the next 15 > minutes we will include a copy of Ubantu Linux, call our 1-800 number > now....operators are standing by :-) )? > > Colin McGregor One point bothers me is that GTALUG sounds a bit off. Though it is official name, its sort of clunker for the name,IMHO. How about GTLUG? I'd sort that into image of GTALUG problem. As for name uniqueness: http://www.google.com/search?q=tlug&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official Seems there is a ton of trespassers here. Just a thought about image of tlug. If its hard to pronounce why would people use it? I feel its a bit hard to sort say it. Setup a cafepress shop , i guess that would be the job for GTALUG secretary, whoever it might be. regards, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:35:15 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 12:35:15 -0400 Subject: perl, forking and broken file handles Message-ID: <4278F9C3.6000205@alteeve.com> Hi all, I need to call one or more external perl script(s) from within my main perl script then wait for them all to finish before proceeding. I've real the perl 'fork' and 'IPC' docs but I must be missing something... Once the program finishes waiting for the children and tries to proceed all file handles and open databases are lost. I am pretty sure from reading that this is because the filehandles and DB connections are shared with the child(ren) and die with them. What I don't know is how to keep these connections alive in the parent script. Here is what I am doing that currently breaks: -=-=-[ code snippet ]-=-=- { ... ## At this point file handles and database connections still work... ## This is inside another loop so this might be called multiple times ## at once if the user has asked to run multiple backup streams at ## once or run each stream in series otherwise. ## These are files that have lists of files I want to copy. I will ## start one 'rsync' stream for each file after closing the FH while ( my $keys = ( each %file_handle ) ) { print LOG "Closing the file handle: [$keys]\n"; close ($file_handle{$keys}); print LOG "Copying the files listed in: [] to: []\n"; $SIG{CHLD}="IGNORE"; my $cpid=fork(); if ($cpid == 0) { print "I will now call 'rsync' stream. Copying selected data from source: [#] to destination: [#]\n"; open (RSYNC, "/path/to/rsync -- --files-from="/path/to/copy.file" 2>&1 |"); close (RSYNC); exit 0; } # I was running into a race condition... sleep 1; if ( $parallel_streams == 0 ) { print "You have asked to run each stream one at a time. I will now wait for this stream to end.\n"; wait; print "This stream is finished. Thank you for waiting.\n"; } } if ( $parallel_streams == 1 ) { # I was running into a race condition... sleep 1; print "I am waiting for the last stream to finish before proceeding:\n"; wait; print "The last stream is finished. Thank you for waiting.\n"; } ## At this point file handles and database connections are dead... -=-=-[ End code snippet ]-=-=- Any help or insight would be very much appreciated! Alternative ways of doing this are also very much welcome, too! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:40:37 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 12:40:37 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <200505041059.28194.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, Charly Baker wrote: > On Wednesday May 4 2005 10:39 am, John McGregor wrote: > > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to > > > Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to sue Canadian > > > Citizens." > > > > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our > > copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and > > the Bloc, than anything else. > > > The bloc wouldn't like it and the Reform party wouldn't understand it. This > bone was thrown to the south, where the profit it is to protect goes Actually, it's a strange sort of "bone" to throw, unless it's something that they're assuming that a change of government would kill, such that it essentially doesn't matter what sorts of silly things they might feign to legislate at this point... The "Fiberals" have been jumping right onto the obvious sorts of things to propose as policy: - Giving money to people they would expect to get support from; - Proposing immigration law relaxations as an transparent play to immigrant voters Come to think of it, this one fits into... - Proposing something that fits into the category of "ingratiating ourselves with the Americans" which makes it look as if electing someone else would break that. It is sad how transparent their ploys are getting. If they had a real "statesman" around, they'd have enough spin going on to make it NOT patently obvious that these are election ploys. Or maybe it's that they have let things get so desperately bad to get into the corner where they have no real choices at all. Either way, it's a stunning demonstration of political incompetence, which is really remarkable, as the Liberal party ought to have a "deeper bench" than to get stuck that way. But I guess it's not entirely new. The Tories disappeared in a single election, going from Mulroney's last majority to, what, two members, one of whom bailed to the Liberals to become premier of Quebec. The new party called "Conservative" isn't Tory, and Ontarians did indeed perceive it to be nothing more than "relabelled Reform", which is why they didn't do any better. It will be quite curious what happens in the next election: - The Conservatives, I mean, "the party formerly known as Western Reform", aren't the PCs or "Tories", and will continue to have a hard time attracting Eastern votes. It would be REALLY HARD for them to change themselves enough to attract Ontario votes in quantity. It might well be easier to resurrect the Progressive Conservative party, and it has been pretty well in the grave for a decade or more... - The Liberals have demonstrated stunning political incompetence, and, based on this, deserve to lose. (That's quite independent of whether or not they deserve to be out on their ear based on Gomery Inquiry issues; that could be an additional "moral" reason to deserve to be turfed out...) - The Bloc can't form a government; they can only steal seats from the Liberals. - The NDP aren't in a position to really capitalize on others' losses; they're too much a specialty party to win. I just can't fathom, at this point, what party Ontario voters would, in general, consider voting for. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:58:37 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 12:58:37 -0400 Subject: perl, forking and broken file handles In-Reply-To: <4278F9C3.6000205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 12:35:15PM -0400 References: <4278F9C3.6000205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050504125837.B30773@diamond.ss.org> I don't know about the file handles, but DBI handles generally don't survive the end of a child program. The reason why is as follows: The child and parent after a fork share the same connection (the same socket id to the database). This connection is terminated when the child ends because the DBI module closes all connections to the database. Also, if you really want to screw up your program try doing inserting or selecting from both child and parent. file handles may be the same way. The File::IO module may explicitly close the files on exit and since the two programs share the same (unix) file handle, it will be set to null by the child. What you want to do is pass as parameters (global variables) the names of the files you want to open to the child process and open up the DB and files after the fork. Note, sharing file handles in threaded programs are generally frowned upon as well. Bill On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 12:35:15PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I need to call one or more external perl script(s) from within my > main perl script then wait for them all to finish before proceeding. > I've real the perl 'fork' and 'IPC' docs but I must be missing > something... Once the program finishes waiting for the children and > tries to proceed all file handles and open databases are lost. I am > pretty sure from reading that this is because the filehandles and DB > connections are shared with the child(ren) and die with them. What I > don't know is how to keep these connections alive in the parent script. > > Here is what I am doing that currently breaks: > > -=-=-[ code snippet ]-=-=- > { > ... > ## At this point file handles and database connections still work... > > ## This is inside another loop so this might be called multiple times > ## at once if the user has asked to run multiple backup streams at > ## once or run each stream in series otherwise. > > ## These are files that have lists of files I want to copy. I will > ## start one 'rsync' stream for each file after closing the FH > while ( my $keys = ( each %file_handle ) ) > { > print LOG "Closing the file handle: [$keys]\n"; > close ($file_handle{$keys}); > > print LOG "Copying the files listed in: [] to: > []\n"; > > $SIG{CHLD}="IGNORE"; > my $cpid=fork(); > if ($cpid == 0) > { > print "I will now call 'rsync' stream. Copying selected data from > source: [#] to destination: [#]\n"; > > open (RSYNC, "/path/to/rsync -- > --files-from="/path/to/copy.file" > 2>&1 |"); > close (RSYNC); > exit 0; > } > > # I was running into a race condition... > sleep 1; > > if ( $parallel_streams == 0 ) > { > print "You have asked to run each stream one at a time. I will now > wait for this stream to end.\n"; > wait; > print "This stream is finished. Thank you for waiting.\n"; > } > > } > if ( $parallel_streams == 1 ) > { > # I was running into a race condition... > sleep 1; > print "I am waiting for the last stream to finish before proceeding:\n"; > wait; > print "The last stream is finished. Thank you for waiting.\n"; > } > > ## At this point file handles and database connections are dead... > -=-=-[ End code snippet ]-=-=- > > Any help or insight would be very much appreciated! Alternative ways > of doing this are also very much welcome, too! > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up > http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 16:51:11 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 12:51:11 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > install fests starting in June. Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how much network do you need? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 17:19:29 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:19:29 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 11:53:24AM -0400 References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050504131929.C30773@diamond.ss.org> > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > install fests starting in June. > > Further questions, date/time? Volunteers? > Another thing that came up about the install fest was the idea of creating a 'installfest kit'. A ready to use server with all the favourite distributions available. Assuming this is a good idea, What distributions are the volunteers familiar with should be listed somewhere. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 17:25:29 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:25:29 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 4 May 2005 12:40:37 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > - The Liberals have demonstrated stunning political incompetence, and, > based on this, deserve to lose. (That's quite independent of whether > or not they deserve to be out on their ear based on Gomery Inquiry > issues; that could be an additional "moral" reason to deserve to be > turfed out...) > > - The Bloc can't form a government; they can only steal seats from the Liberals. > > - The NDP aren't in a position to really capitalize on others' losses; > they're too much a specialty party to win. > > I just can't fathom, at this point, what party Ontario voters would, > in general, consider voting for. You're not alone. Too bad the Rhinos are gone :-) I would have expected the NDP to be all over this, but there's such a technophobic streak in their leadership that they really haven't done much. I guess the Manitoba NDP passed a resolution to support FOSS a while ago, which is good http://plug.ca/article.php?story=20050321233431578 but I notice that Jack Layton is still running IIS :-) http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.jacklayton.ca Rob > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 17:57:57 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:57:57 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "James Knott" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:51 PM > Colin McGregor wrote: > > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing > > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since > > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do > > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this > > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with > > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. > > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this > > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > > install fests starting in June. > > Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how > much network do you need? There is a joke about how one of the fastest data transfer systems is a person on a bicycle with a knapsack filled with tapes, the only catch being that latency is a @#$%. My take on this would be to have: - A server with a CD-ROM burner and ISO images of several popular distributions (i.e. Fedora, Debbie, Suse, Slackware, etc., etc.). This way we can do a local network install and/or burn CD(s) on the spot as required. - Just a stack of CD-ROMs with copies of several different distributions (and multiple copies of some of the most popular distributions). Regardless, we do NOT want several folks sucking down the full distributions over the net. We do want the option of people being able to apply the latest security patch(es) to their box(es) via the net... Likewise we want the option of being able to look up information about how to deal with bizarre hardware over the net. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:03:12 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:03:12 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: Hey, the new Debian should be out in time for the installfest! Franco -- On 5/4/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > "James Knott" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:51 PM > > > Colin McGregor wrote: > > > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > > > > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal > reasons > > > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away > from > > > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > > > > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > > > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > > > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with > doing > > > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September > since > > > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like > to do > > > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, > this > > > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues > with > > > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install > fests. > > > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to > this > > > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > > > install fests starting in June. > > > > Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how > > much network do you need? > > There is a joke about how one of the fastest data transfer systems is a > person on a bicycle with a knapsack filled with tapes, the only catch being > that latency is a @#$%. My take on this would be to have: > > - A server with a CD-ROM burner and ISO images of several popular > distributions (i.e. Fedora, Debbie, Suse, Slackware, etc., etc.). This way > we can do a local network install and/or burn CD(s) on the spot as required. > > - Just a stack of CD-ROMs with copies of several different distributions > (and multiple copies of some of the most popular distributions). > > Regardless, we do NOT want several folks sucking down the full distributions > over the net. We do want the option of people being able to apply the latest > security patch(es) to their box(es) via the net... Likewise we want the > option of being able to look up information about how to deal with bizarre > hardware over the net. > > Colin. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 17:55:47 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:55:47 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <4278FD7F.9020601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing > > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since > > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do > > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this > > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with > > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. > > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this > > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > > install fests starting in June. > > Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how > much network do you need? I think it would be unwise to assume the availability of a large "pipe" to the Internet. While it may be possible to get access, it cannot be assumed. The alternative is to have an "installfest kit", consisting of: - A hub/switch with ~8 ports - 10BaseT/10Base100 cabling for, say, 8 - A PC on which is installed copies some reasonable assortment of distribution CDs thereby allowing access on the LAN via NFS/ftp/HTTP If you have that, you don't need to go to the Internet. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:25:19 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:25:19 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <00c501c550d6$a0da1f40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Franco Saliola" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:03 PM wrote: Hey, the new Debian should be out in time for the installfest! Hopefully, yes, I remember when they were talking (fairly seriously) about a September release date for Sarge. Now they are talking in terms of end of May, lets hope. Then we can start swearing about how long Etch (which will be the successor to Sarge) is taking to come out :-) . Colin. -- On 5/4/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > "James Knott" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:51 PM > > > Colin McGregor wrote: > > > This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... > > > > > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal > reasons > > > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away > from > > > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > > > > > Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > > > Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > > > announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with > doing > > > a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September > since > > > things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like > to do > > > an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, > this > > > way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues > with > > > a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install > fests. > > > I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to > this > > > before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > > > install fests starting in June. > > > > Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how > > much network do you need? > > There is a joke about how one of the fastest data transfer systems is a > person on a bicycle with a knapsack filled with tapes, the only catch being > that latency is a @#$%. My take on this would be to have: > > - A server with a CD-ROM burner and ISO images of several popular > distributions (i.e. Fedora, Debian, Suse, Slackware, etc., etc.). This way > we can do a local network install and/or burn CD(s) on the spot as required. > > - Just a stack of CD-ROMs with copies of several different distributions > (and multiple copies of some of the most popular distributions). > > Regardless, we do NOT want several folks sucking down the full distributions > over the net. We do want the option of people being able to apply the latest > security patch(es) to their box(es) via the net... Likewise we want the > option of being able to look up information about how to deal with bizarre > hardware over the net. > > Colin. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:29:22 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:29:22 -0400 Subject: perl, forking and broken file handles In-Reply-To: <20050504125837.B30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <4278F9C3.6000205@alteeve.com> <20050504125837.B30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > What you want to do is pass as parameters (global variables) the names of the files you want to open to the child process and open up the DB and files after the fork. Why on earth would you want to do that? Just have the filename set in a variable in the program, and delay opening it until the child is forked. The child will have exactly the same variable definitions: for (items) { set current_item; pid = fork(); if (pid == 0) { fh = open(current_item); do stuff; exit; } fh = open(current_item); Do that other stuff (be sure not to walk on the child); } About the only time you'd want to keep filehandles open between parent and child is, afaik, if you're using pipes for IPC; in that case the parent would open two pipes, and write to pipe 1 and read from pipe 2 while the child reads from pipe 1 and writes to pipe 2. (or just use one pipe if you only need one-way communication) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:53:03 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 14:53:03 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > but I notice that Jack Layton is still running IIS :-) > > http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.jacklayton.ca I wonder how much Sir Billy paid him? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:54:53 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 14:54:53 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42791A7D.8010904@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote: > >>Colin McGregor wrote: >> >>>This is in follow-up to the Executive Working meeting last evening... >>> >>>One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons >>>(i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from >>>TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). >>> >>>Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at >>>Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would >>>announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with doing >>>a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September since >>>things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like to do >>>an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, this >>>way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues with >>>a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install fests. >>>I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to this >>>before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG >>>install fests starting in June. >> >>Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how >>much network do you need? > > > I think it would be unwise to assume the availability of a large > "pipe" to the Internet. While it may be possible to get access, it > cannot be assumed. > > The alternative is to have an "installfest kit", consisting of: > - A hub/switch with ~8 ports > - 10BaseT/10Base100 cabling for, say, 8 > - A PC on which is installed copies some reasonable assortment of > distribution CDs > thereby allowing access on the LAN via NFS/ftp/HTTP > > If you have that, you don't need to go to the Internet. That was my point. According to Colin, Centennial's network is being reworked. But if it's not needed, why is it a concern? All we need is room and some tables etc., and perhaps our own server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:56:00 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 14:56:00 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <42791AC0.2070303@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > "James Knott" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:51 PM >>>Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at >>>Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would >>>announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with > > doing > >>>a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September > > since > >>>things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like > > to do > >>>an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, > > this > >>>way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues > > with > >>>a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install > > fests. > >>>I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to > > this > >>>before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG >>>install fests starting in June. >> >>Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how >>much network do you need? > > > There is a joke about how one of the fastest data transfer systems is a > person on a bicycle with a knapsack filled with tapes, the only catch being > that latency is a @#$%. My take on this would be to have: > > - A server with a CD-ROM burner and ISO images of several popular > distributions (i.e. Fedora, Debbie, Suse, Slackware, etc., etc.). This way > we can do a local network install and/or burn CD(s) on the spot as required. > > - Just a stack of CD-ROMs with copies of several different distributions > (and multiple copies of some of the most popular distributions). > > Regardless, we do NOT want several folks sucking down the full distributions > over the net. We do want the option of people being able to apply the latest > security patch(es) to their box(es) via the net... Likewise we want the > option of being able to look up information about how to deal with bizarre > hardware over the net. So, why is the reworking of Centennial's network a concern??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 19:08:24 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 15:08:24 -0400 Subject: perl, forking and broken file handles In-Reply-To: ; from jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:29:22PM -0400 References: <4278F9C3.6000205@alteeve.com> <20050504125837.B30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050504150824.E30773@diamond.ss.org> That is what I meant. But point taken. Bill > > What you want to do is pass as parameters (global variables) the names of the files you want to open to the child process and open up the DB and files after the fork. > > Why on earth would you want to do that? Just have the filename set in > a variable in the program, and delay opening it until the child is > forked. The child will have exactly the same variable definitions: > > for (items) > { > set current_item; > pid = fork(); > if (pid == 0) > { > fh = open(current_item); > do stuff; > exit; > } > fh = open(current_item); > Do that other stuff (be sure not to walk on the child); > } > > About the only time you'd want to keep filehandles open between parent > and child is, afaik, if you're using pipes for IPC; in that case the > parent would open two pipes, and write to pipe 1 and read from pipe 2 > while the child reads from pipe 1 and writes to pipe 2. (or just use > one pipe if you only need one-way communication) > > -- > taa > /*eof*/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 19:16:47 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 15:16:47 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42791A0F.8020207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:53:03PM -0400 References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:53:03PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Rob Sutherland wrote: > > > but I notice that Jack Layton is still running IIS :-) > > > > http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.jacklayton.ca > > I wonder how much Sir Billy paid him? > Probably Nothing. The volunteer that created the page and maintains it most likely made that decision based solely on what they know. If you asked Layton on the topic he probably knows nothing about it. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 19:14:36 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 15:14:36 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <42791AC0.2070303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4278FD7F.9020601@rogers.com> <009501c550d2$cdc940c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42791AC0.2070303@rogers.com> Message-ID: Refer to earlier part of thread: Just because we have some distro does not mean we have all of the HOWTO's or patches that we may need. An installfest with no internet is no fun at all. -Joseph- On 5/4/05, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > "James Knott" on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:51 PM > > >>>Spoke to the folks at Centennial College about doing an install fest at > >>>Centennial and they are VERY interested. The idea being that we would > >>>announce a place/time where you could bring your PC and get help with > > > > doing > > > >>>a Linux install. I was asked if we wanted to do this in say September > > > > since > > > >>>things are fairly quiet right now, and my answer was that I would like > > > > to do > > > >>>an install fest at a quiet time so we could see where problems crop up, > > > > this > > > >>>way come September we would be much better prepared to deal with issues > > > > with > > > >>>a large group. In other words I was suggesting two Centennial install > > > > fests. > > > >>>I was told they are reworking their network and so will not be able to > > > > this > > > >>>before about the end of May. Still, Centennial is on board for GTALUG > >>>install fests starting in June. > >> > >>Are you planning on going to the internet for the install? If not, how > >>much network do you need? > > > > > > There is a joke about how one of the fastest data transfer systems is a > > person on a bicycle with a knapsack filled with tapes, the only catch being > > that latency is a @#$%. My take on this would be to have: > > > > - A server with a CD-ROM burner and ISO images of several popular > > distributions (i.e. Fedora, Debbie, Suse, Slackware, etc., etc.). This way > > we can do a local network install and/or burn CD(s) on the spot as required. > > > > - Just a stack of CD-ROMs with copies of several different distributions > > (and multiple copies of some of the most popular distributions). > > > > Regardless, we do NOT want several folks sucking down the full distributions > > over the net. We do want the option of people being able to apply the latest > > security patch(es) to their box(es) via the net... Likewise we want the > > option of being able to look up information about how to deal with bizarre > > hardware over the net. > > So, why is the reworking of Centennial's network a concern??? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 19:54:16 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 15:54:16 -0400 Subject: Installfests Message-ID: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> Regarding Linux installation festivals, I have the following notes from my recent experience. The announcement http://www.cambridgelug.org/?q=node/6 The waiver http://www.cambridgelug.org/files/InstallfesWaiver.sxw The questionnaire http://www.cambridgelug.org/files/InstallDetails.sxw In promoting I found that the best source of volunteers is the LUG. Plus arm-twisting. Lots of arm-twisting and reminders. Best source of new users is word of mouth; the volunteers will spread the word and drag along a few new users. In this case the college will be a good source of new users. The media is tougher. News papers need a week or two of notice for a listing in the local events column. I haven't managed to get a story printed yet. Some radio stations will put you on their web site, while others might do an on-air mention that needs a few months of advance notice. The local chamber of commerce may take an interest, but generally requires months of lead time. Facility: Check the network before the 'fest. 'Nuff said. Have long, long extension cords so you can spread the load to other circuits if power starts to get flaky. Have the computers spread out on different circuits to start with if possible. Keep the power and network cords out of the way. Don't let anybody walk over or trip over cables. Someone might drop power on a machine and cause a failure (bad) or trip and hurt themselves (worse). Don't leave the power-bar power switches where they can get kicked to the off position by accident. Have a cart and easy roll-in roll-out access to limit lifting and carrying of heavy computer stuff. Staff: Non-technical staff are as important as technical staff. Use a Greeter and an Admin, at a minimum. The greeter will welcome everyone as they arrive, assure them that they are in the right place and welcome and direct them to the Admin. The Admin will check the registration details, and witness the waiver signing after answering any waiver questions. The admin will also provide the name tags (really important!) and the questionnaire. One of the things that can be improved over my last 'fest was getting the volunteers to ask for help when they need it. Some are better at different problems than others. They need a way to get assistance with an unfamiliar issue without standing up and saying "Help". I think that this should probably go through the Admin. If you can establish in advance who has extra-Guru-powers in specific areas, make sure the volunteers know who and what, and that there is no shame in a hand-off. Linux is big, nobody can know everything. Check the HOWTO http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Installfest-HOWTO/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 18:13:59 2005 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:13:59 -0400 Subject: stupid test message Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC512FBCF2@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> I'll go run and hide now. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 905-363-1600 905-363-4297 Ext. 248 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 905-363-1194? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 23:22:53 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 19:22:53 -0400 Subject: Next Meeting Link on Wiki Message-ID: <1115248973.29401.1.camel@localhost> Hi, Can someone who has correct information update Wiki page on next meeting. It still says that meeting is on april 11th... thanks, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 00:09:03 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:09:03 -0400 Subject: Wiki problems Message-ID: <20050505000903.GA19064@unleashed.org> Sorry to spam the entire LUG with this... Speaking of Wiki issues, I was making some changes that had to do with a new Link for the sitemap, and and suddenly the Wiki became unresponsive. Is anyone else seeing this problem right now? I had a similar problem when setting up my wiki at home at one point that was solved by upgrading php on the system. I tried manually deleting the potentially problematic entries from the database and restarting the db and webserver. Any ideas? Leah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 01:23:28 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:23:28 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504151647.F30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:53:03PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > >>Rob Sutherland wrote: >> >> >> >>>but I notice that Jack Layton is still running IIS :-) >>> >>> d'ya think maybe Jack is the leader of the NDP and a webmaster, in his spare time ? >>>http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.jacklayton.ca >>> >>> >>I wonder how much Sir Billy paid him? >> >> >> >Probably Nothing. The volunteer that created the page and maintains it most likely made that decision based solely on what they know. If you asked Layton on the topic he probably knows nothing about it. > > And probably has bigger fish to fry. A friend and co-worker, who is linux nut and also an active NDP member, found an opportunity to corner Jack and talk to him about open source software. After listening intently for two minutes, the "light came on" and Jack said "sounds like socialist software !" He's heard of it, he get's it, his website ain't broken, so he's not fixin' it. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 01:32:02 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 18:32:02 -0700 Subject: Wiki problems - Fixed In-Reply-To: <20050505000903.GA19064-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505000903.GA19064@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050505013202.GB5662@unleashed.org> Well, not sure what the problem was, but it should be working again now. I upgraded the wiki to 1.4.4 and it's back. Leah Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050504 18:14]: > Sorry to spam the entire LUG with this... > > Speaking of Wiki issues, I was making some changes that had to do > with a new Link for the sitemap, and and suddenly the Wiki became > unresponsive. Is anyone else seeing this problem right now? > > I had a similar problem when setting up my wiki at home at one point > that was solved by upgrading php on the system. I tried manually > deleting the potentially problematic entries from the database and > restarting the db and webserver. Any ideas? > > Leah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 4 20:42:51 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 16:42:51 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <1115223230.26900.6.camel@localhost> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1115223230.26900.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <427933CB.707@sympatico.ca> Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > Seems there is a ton of trespassers here. Hey, if I'd have gone after all the GLUGs that appeared after a friend and I founded Glasgow Linux User Group in 1995 (or was it '94?), I'd still be fighting it. > Setup a cafepress shop ... Importing Cafepress stuff is extortionate, and there has to be a local store that does good quality printing ... Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 02:14:18 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:14:18 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42797590.4020900-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:23:28 -0400 David J Patrick wrote: > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:53:03PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > > > >>Rob Sutherland wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>but I notice that Jack Layton is still running IIS :-) > >>> > >>> > d'ya think maybe Jack is the leader of the NDP and a webmaster, in his > spare time ? Nope - I think he's a waste of skin, actually. I just think it's a shame that the party that talks about being the opposition to all that is corporate etc., is paying out when it doesn't need to. > > > And probably has bigger fish to fry. A friend and co-worker, who is > linux nut and also an active NDP member, found an opportunity to corner > Jack and talk to him about open source software. After listening > intently for two minutes, the "light came on" and Jack said "sounds like > socialist software !" He's heard of it, he get's it, his website ain't > broken, so he's not fixin' it. I'd say W2K is broken from the word go, myself. Look, if Layton or any other Canadian politician took this issue seriously they would be making public statements and doing something. It's good that's getting input from people and I know there are a lot of Linux types in the NDP, but if even a supporter of his can't point to anything he's said in public, how seriously are we supposed to take him on the issue? Look at what's going on in South America http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/10/south_america_open_source/ I mean, these people are actually trying to make FLOSS a real part of their public IT infrastructure - something I doubt the NDP is going to advocate anytime soon. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 02:24:25 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:24:25 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <200505041059.28194.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>; from cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 10:59:28AM -0400 References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> Message-ID: <20050504222425.D23204@leftmind.net> Charly Baker wrote: > On Wednesday May 4 2005 10:39 am, John McGregor wrote: > > >"Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed changes to > > > Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to sue Canadian > > > Citizens." > > > > Given the federal political climate, the proposed change to our > > copyright law was more likely a bone thrown to to the Conservatives and > > the Bloc, than anything else. > > > The bloc wouldn't like it and the Reform party wouldn't understand it. This > bone was thrown to the south, where the profit it is to protect goes The Conservative Heritage Critic comes from the Ontario PC side of the house, not from Reform. And I've already talked to her legislative assistant about copyright issues and ensuring it's done sensibly for the people, rewarding content creators/owners so they'll make more good stuff for us, rather than giving those people a big stick to beat up the market. A couple of items from the policy statement on the party website: The Conservative Party believes that reasonable access to copyrighted works is a critical necessity for learning and teaching for Canadian studens and teachers, and that access to copyrighted materials enriches life long learning and is an essential component of an innovative economy. A Conservative Government will eliminate the levy on blank recording materials. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 02:46:17 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:46:17 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 12:40:37PM -0400 References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050504224617.E23204@leftmind.net> Christopher Browne wrote: > - The Conservatives, I mean, "the party formerly known as Western > Reform", aren't the PCs or "Tories", and will continue to have a hard > time attracting Eastern votes. It would be REALLY HARD for them to > change themselves enough to attract Ontario votes in quantity. It > might well be easier to resurrect the Progressive Conservative party, > and it has been pretty well in the grave for a decade or more... It's most certainly NOT Preston Manning's Reform party anymore. Stephen Harper was born and raised an Ontario boy. And people like Belinda Stronach (from the GTA) and Peter MacKay (from Nova Scotia) are having a major influence too. Take a look at where the seats are: a third are in Ontario, and a quarter in Quebec. With the Bloc taking most of the latter, it's pretty difficult for anyone to form government without most of Ontario, so a Conservative government would have a lot of local Ontario voices in caucus. The Conservative party took some huge steps toward the political centre at the Montreal convention in March; a number of Reform planks were considered and then set aside by a majority of delegates. The general sense of the room was that Canada needs a moderate, electable government more than it needs anything that adventurous. And the Libranos doth protest too much about "hidden agendas". What was Chretien's hidden agenda when he was promising to axe the GST? What was McGuinty's, when he promised that there would be no new taxes? What was Paul Martin's hidden agenda, when he said he had a bold new plan? Or, for that matter, when he said to wait until after Gomery says who did it, despite http://www.gomery.ca/en/termsofreference/ paragraph K saying that the final report can NOT lay blame? Sorry about getting so far off-topic. We may not want a election (who ever does?), but it's our duty to make some changes. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 02:55:42 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:55:42 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 11:53:24AM -0400 References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Colin McGregor wrote: > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). I can't see that being necessary, when the other group isn't even in the same country. And what about Linux users in Tokyo, Turin, and other such cities? It's inevitable that there be more than a few TLUGs around the world. Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. Finally, such a name change does very much change the focus of the group, from one centred in the city itself to one centered in a much larger area; you may have to deal with calls to move out closer to the 905ers (which would have once been nice, but my job is moving to within walking distance of the present location). Granted, the NewTLUG meetings are out at IBM already. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 03:03:00 2005 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 23:03:00 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050504225542.F23204-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <42798CE4.3030607@rogers.com> > Thamer Wow - I had totally forgotten about that dude. Crazy times! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 03:26:09 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 23:26:09 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050504225542.F23204-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal reasons > > (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we away from > > TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > I can't see that being necessary, when the other group isn't even in the > same country. And what about Linux users in Tokyo, Turin, and other > such cities? It's inevitable that there be more than a few TLUGs around > the world. If you're trying to incorporate, Toledo *IS* relevant because it isn't far away at all. Toledo is nearer to Toronto than: a) New York City b) Boston c) Chicago. It's just south of Detroit, which means it is most definitely close enough to cause confusion throughout our region. In any case, when an attempt was made to incorporate as "TLUG", the NUANS search showed up the Toledo group as reason for the government to refuse to allow that name to be used. THAT is the relevant consideration, not what people individually deem reasonable to their minds. > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. As nothing was ever formalized, that isn't particularly relevant. > Finally, such a name change does very much change the focus of the group, > from one centred in the city itself to one centered in a much larger > area; you may have to deal with calls to move out closer to the 905ers > (which would have once been nice, but my job is moving to within walking > distance of the present location). Granted, the NewTLUG meetings are > out at IBM already. In a sense, there has been a substantial ABSENCE of focus since about 2001. At that time, there may have been some degree of "official permission" to the presence at U of T; since then, the presence there represents inertia as opposed to any sort of focus. TLUG has had no official permission to meet where it has been meeting. If there is change, this will presumably involve establishment of a focus that has been outright missing. In the discussions on Tuesday, the myopia was quite interesting... The assumption seemed to be made that an "Installfest" MUST occur alongside a TTC subway station, despite the fact that the need for people to transport PCs makes such locations more or less the WORST possible. If there is a change that leads to people that _aren't_ focused on subway stops being considered a potential part of the local "Linux goings-on," rather than being shut out, this strikes me as a good thing. Linux is NOT merely intended for subway users, and the existing myopia to that effect needs to be corrected. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 03:45:41 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 23:45:41 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050505034541.GA1635@leftmind.net> Christopher Browne wrote: > > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. > > As nothing was ever formalized, that isn't particularly relevant. They can claim prior art, or the organizational-naming equivalent thereof. Even if the law ignores unincorporated entities and allows it to you because you're the first to want to incorporate under that name, morally they had the name first. > In the discussions on Tuesday, the myopia was quite interesting... > The assumption seemed to be made that an "Installfest" MUST occur > alongside a TTC subway station, despite the fact that the need for > people to transport PCs makes such locations more or less the WORST > possible. I've carried as many as two rackmount systems in a backpack on the subway, while installing SDSL nearlos. Yes, it was a heavy load, but that was the easiest way to move between the endpoint-locations of that link. However, for practical purposes, if you're moving computers around you want wheels, and that means a location with parking closeby and a preference for the non-vehicle-hostile suburbs. Granted, if you don't have access to a vehicle you're stuck with The Bitter Way, a bike, or your feet. We need little computer trailers to tow behind bikes, eh? -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 04:12:51 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 00:12:51 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050505041251.GA7888@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 11:26:09PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Linux is NOT merely intended for subway users, and the existing myopia > to that effect needs to be corrected. Agreed. Scarbourgh campus of UofT is good location, car-wise. It's far, but once you get on 401, no practical difference. Can we sanction Seneca to talk to them on our behalf? Centennial College is right there too, I'm told. We can kill 2 birds with one stone. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 04:20:10 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 00:20:10 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <42799EFA.2000800@quadratic.net> snip >I'd say W2K is broken from the word go, myself. Look, if Layton or any other >Canadian politician took this issue seriously they would be making public >statements and doing something. It's good that's getting input from people >and I know there are a lot of Linux types in the NDP, but if even a supporter >of his can't point to anything he's said in public, how seriously are we supposed >to take him on the issue? Look at what's going on in South America > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/10/south_america_open_source/ > >I mean, these people are actually trying to make FLOSS a real part of their >public IT infrastructure - something I doubt the NDP is going to advocate >anytime soon. > >Rob > > > > > If I may.. Joseph Potvin is the man... He presented last year at the real world linux conference and I was blown away. He get's it. http://www.goslingcommunity.org/files/FCA_Mar04WkshpREPORT_Draft21aJun04XML.pdf More: http://www.cio-dpi.gc.ca/fap-paf/oss-ll/oss-ll_e.asp Joseph works for pwgsc now and it working toward adopting open standards .... but a google://site:www.pwgsc.gc.ca "open source" doesn't yeild anything interesting. Also: http://www.goslingcommunity.org/ david -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 05:05:35 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 01:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Next Meeting Link on Wiki In-Reply-To: <1115248973.29401.1.camel@localhost> References: <1115248973.29401.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 May 2005, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > Can someone who has correct information update Wiki page on next > meeting. It still says that meeting is on april 11th... I'm waiting on some info from the speaker. If I do not get it soon I'll put something in. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 05:10:42 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 01:10:42 -0400 Subject: Installfests In-Reply-To: <1115236456.24167.169.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, interlug-list wrote: >The media is tougher. News papers need a week or two of notice for a >listing in the local events column. I haven't managed to get a story >printed yet. Some radio stations will put you on their web site, while >others might do an on-air mention that needs a few months of advance >notice. The local chamber of commerce may take an interest, but >generally requires months of lead time. I would consider putting together a press/media kit. In every instance I've been involved with the media this is generally expected. In this case it should probably contain the following: - background on organization/event, installfest goals - photos of event ( if available ) or invitation when photos would be most appropriate - announcement details on the event, time, location, expected attendence etc.. - contacts for event, further interviews etc... I'd be happy to help put it together, please contact me off list. > One of the things that can be improved over my last 'fest was getting > the volunteers to ask for help when they need it. Some are better at > different problems than others. They need a way to get assistance with > an unfamiliar issue without standing up and saying "Help". I think that > this should probably go through the Admin. If you can establish in > advance who has extra-Guru-powers in specific areas, make sure the > volunteers know who and what, and that there is no shame in a hand-off. > Linux is big, nobody can know everything. Many years ago at a networks bake-off the organizer assigned these standing whiteboards. They were used to communicate availability for testing, scheduling and availability for testing to everyone else in the big conference room. Something similar might work where you have people display what they are working on and people with experience might be able to assist... Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 05:05:19 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 01:05:19 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42799EFA.2000800-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42799EFA.2000800@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05050422053aeba7f0@mail.gmail.com> > If I may.. Joseph Potvin is the man... He was also at the LinuxWorld conference just passed. Missed him unfortunately. -- - SGE http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/User:dl33t -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 12:25:40 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 08:25:40 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050504225542.F23204-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <200505050825.41182.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 4, 2005 10:55 pm, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > One of the points that was emphasised at the meeting was (for legal > > reasons (i.e. avoid conflict with the Toledo Linux User Group)) that we > > away from TLUG to GTALUG (i.e. Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group). > > I can't see that being necessary, when the other group isn't even in the > same country. And what about Linux users in Tokyo, Turin, and other > such cities? It's inevitable that there be more than a few TLUGs around > the world. > > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. > > Finally, such a name change does very much change the focus of the group, > from one centred in the city itself to one centered in a much larger > area; you may have to deal with calls to move out closer to the 905ers > (which would have once been nice, but my job is moving to within walking > distance of the present location). Granted, the NewTLUG meetings are > out at IBM already. Just a question out of curiosity while I watch the continuing thread here. Why are you not considering tolug "Toronto Ontario Linux User Group" ? A google search of this already points to the tlug toronto linux user group. http://www.google.ca/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=tolug+linux&btnG=Search&meta= Just seems like an easier switch to me. My 2 cents. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 12:25:52 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 08:25:52 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504132529.2efe4e7d.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42791A0F.8020207@rogers.com> <20050504151647.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <427A10D0.7060300@sympatico.ca> Rob Sutherland wrote: > > I mean, these people are actually trying to make FLOSS a real part of their > public IT infrastructure - something I doubt the NDP is going to advocate > anytime soon. Last I heard, the NDP were maintained by Web Networks, a nice union shop (with a friendly dog) working out of 401 Richmond W. They do the open source thing pretty well. Jack's personal site may be handled elsewhere. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 13:46:25 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 09:46:25 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504222425.D23204-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504222425.D23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050505094625.3d7edf46.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 4 May 2005 22:24:25 -0400 Anthony de Boer disseminated the following: > The Conservative Party believes that reasonable access to copyrighted > works is a critical necessity for learning and teaching for Canadian > studens and teachers, and that access to copyrighted materials > enriches life long learning and is an essential component of an > innovative economy. ...until Gates donates a billion to their campaign fund. Then *poof*. Who the heck believes what politicians say anymore? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 09:44:58 up 73 days, 10:54, 7 users, load average: 0.28, 0.50, 0.25 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 14:35:03 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 10:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Further Follow-ups Message-ID: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are thinking about for the install fest is somewhere in their newest campus, the "Centennial HP Science and Technology Centre". This is at 755 Morningside Avenue (Morningside and Ellesmere Road, 1 km south of the 401). In other words we are talking a more car friendly place than a TTC friendly place. Yes, I would love to do an install fest in the downtown core, and one in the west end of the city. But for now we have a bird in the hand and let's go with it. I have been in touch with the people who put on the Linux World Canada show, and have made it clear they would be welcome at the next TLUG meeting. Word is that the President of the firm that puts on the show has other commitments next Tuesday, but would like to attend the June meeting. Not sure about the other staff at that firm... As for meeting locations in general, yes, I like the facilities Seneca at York and those at IBM, the lecture halls are first rate. The support of IBM and Seneca at York is deeply appreciated. The problem I have with both locations (and why I would be reluctant to leave the downtown core) is I really love the social interaction before / after each meeting, and the lack of very nearby cheap food / pub places that one can easily / naturally gravitate to does put a damper on things for me.... That and as someone who is tied to the TTC, well, Seneca at York, plus IBM are a bit of a pain to get to... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 14:45:42 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 10:45:42 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505143503.15491.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427A3196.2060205@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are > thinking about for the install fest is somewhere in > their newest campus, the "Centennial HP Science and > Technology Centre". This is at 755 Morningside Avenue > (Morningside and Ellesmere Road, 1 km south of the > 401). In other words we are talking a more car > friendly place than a TTC friendly place. Yes, I would > love to do an install fest in the downtown core, and > one in the west end of the city. But for now we have a > bird in the hand and let's go with it. Given that most people will be bringing a computer to an install fest, a "car friendly" location is essential. Not many people want to carry a full size computer on the TTC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 14:53:06 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 10:53:06 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505143503.15491.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/5/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > As for meeting locations in general, yes, I like the > facilities Seneca at York and those at IBM, the lecture > halls are first rate. The support of IBM and > Seneca at York is deeply appreciated. The problem I have > with both locations (and why I would be reluctant to > leave the downtown core) is I really love the social > interaction before / after each meeting, and the lack > of very nearby cheap food / pub places that one can > easily / naturally gravitate to does put a damper on > things for me.... That and as someone who is tied to > the TTC, well, Seneca at York, plus IBM are a bit of a > pain to get to... I'm relatively new to the TLUG list, has Metro Hall been discussed as an option? TPMA ( Toronto Product Managers Association, tpma.ca ) uses it for their meetings. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:05:33 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:05:33 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050504225542.F23204-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>; from adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 04, 2005 at 10:55:42PM -0400 References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> > > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. That was GTABUG. That pretty much was stillborn the minute it started. The name GTALUG has been legal the name of TLUG since Clive registered it in 1999 or 2000 (not sure which month it was done) during the process of incorporation. > > Finally, such a name change does very much change the focus of the group, > from one centred in the city itself to one centered in a much larger > area; you may have to deal with calls to move out closer to the 905ers > (which would have once been nice, but my job is moving to within walking > distance of the present location). Granted, the NewTLUG meetings are > out at IBM already. > One of the reasons the NEWTLUG meetings started and are happeningin the suburbs is to allow our members from the 905 district access to TLUG and its social aspect. Similarly there is a small group of hard core people from Mississauga that meet as well (PHUG) and we are doing everything to encourage it. At the excutive level this has been a very real (if not written) policy of encouraging either SIGs or other more convient venues for part of TLUG members to meet. Geographically this is a very big city with very poor transportation facilities and many small local meetings is the best way to get people together. Bill. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:03:11 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:03:11 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505143503.15491.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:35:03AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are > thinking about for the install fest is somewhere in > their newest campus, the "Centennial HP Science and > Technology Centre". This is at 755 Morningside Avenue > (Morningside and Ellesmere Road, 1 km south of the > 401). In other words we are talking a more car > friendly place than a TTC friendly place. Yes, I would > love to do an install fest in the downtown core, and > one in the west end of the city. But for now we have a > bird in the hand and let's go with it. Oh, what a nice location. It's at the edge of UofT Scarborough. Parking there would be interesting; the parking lot I've seen is a few metres above the entrances to the place that I know of. There is a drop-off loop at the same altitude as the main entrance and stairs (and sidewalks) that can be taken down there. There are also multiple bus routes that go past it. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:05:55 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 18:05:55 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <200505050825.41182.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <200505050825.41182.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 May 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > Just a question out of curiosity while I watch the continuing thread here. Why > are you not considering tolug "Toronto Ontario Linux User Group" ? Since Linux will spread, eventually that will be contested too. A solution: apply a country.region.town.organisation naming scheme. That would be, in domain name order: lug.tor.ca (or lug.tor.on.ca) Which could be spelled out as '(The) Linux User Group of Toronto, Canada' . Then you could have nlug.tor.ca (New ...) etc. No more contention. Also very search-engine-friendly. $0.002 Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:08:48 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <427A3196.2060205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <427A3196.2060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > > Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are > > thinking about for the install fest is somewhere in > > their newest campus... In other words we are talking a more car > > friendly place than a TTC friendly place... > > Given that most people will be bringing a computer to an install fest, a > "car friendly" location is essential. Not many people want to carry a > full size computer on the TTC. This cuts both ways. People who don't have convenient access to a car -- there are many more such people (especially students) than most car-owners think -- might venture a subway ride, especially if they have an LCD monitor (much more manageable than a big CRT), but definitely *won't* wend their way through multiple bus routes to a suburban location. Such a location automatically shuts out people without a car at their disposal. The answer, as with LUGs in general, is to think in terms of multiple events rather than trying to serve everyone with one. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:09:33 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050505150933.53674.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are > > thinking about for the install fest is somewhere > in > > their newest campus, the "Centennial HP Science > and > > Technology Centre". This is at 755 Morningside > Avenue > > (Morningside and Ellesmere Road, 1 km south of the > > 401). In other words we are talking a more car > > friendly place than a TTC friendly place. Yes, I > would > > love to do an install fest in the downtown core, > and > > one in the west end of the city. But for now we > have a > > bird in the hand and let's go with it. > > Given that most people will be bringing a computer > to an install fest, a > "car friendly" location is essential. Not many > people want to carry a > full size computer on the TTC. Something I would be curious about, what percentage of people would show up at an event like this with a laptop vs. a conventional desktop PC? I suspect the laptop users will care more about transit times (by car or TTC) than about how car friendly a place is. Also, would the laptop / desktop mix change noticeably in a downtown location vs. a suburban location? In other words doing this event in car friendly locations is very important I don't think it is the whole story and some of these events should be run in TTC friendly locations... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:26:17 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:26:17 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <200505050825.41182.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 08:25:40AM -0400 References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <200505050825.41182.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050505112617.I30773@diamond.ss.org> > > Just a question out of curiosity while I watch the continuing thread here. Why > are you not considering tolug "Toronto Ontario Linux User Group" ? If we are to change the mailing list, GTALUG is the only real choice we have. It is actually our official name. > > A google search of this already points to the tlug toronto linux user group. > http://www.google.ca/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=tolug+linux&btnG=Search&meta= That is funny. The google search didn't bring up any TLUG related stuff the first couple of pages when I ran it. This might be an archive where the name is mis-spelt. The 'o' is right above the 'l' on the qwerty keyboard and isn't difficult to hit both keys simultaneously. ( I do it all the time). > > Just seems like an easier switch to me. > It is a good idea. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:47:28 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:47:28 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: ; from csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:53:06AM -0400 References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050505114728.K30773@diamond.ss.org> Metro Hall has been discussed and even pursued. The problem is the cost associated with the place (it would break the bank) and its facilities can't seriously handle any large turn out. One other place has been thrown around. It is sort of car friendly (street parking) and TTC friendly (Streetcar). That is the Ralph Holton Center (sic) at Queen and Broadview. Bill On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:53:06AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: > On 5/5/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > > As for meeting locations in general, yes, I like the > > facilities Seneca at York and those at IBM, the lecture > > halls are first rate. The support of IBM and > > Seneca at York is deeply appreciated. The problem I have > > with both locations (and why I would be reluctant to > > leave the downtown core) is I really love the social > > interaction before / after each meeting, and the lack > > of very nearby cheap food / pub places that one can > > easily / naturally gravitate to does put a damper on > > things for me.... That and as someone who is tied to > > the TTC, well, Seneca at York, plus IBM are a bit of a > > pain to get to... > > I'm relatively new to the TLUG list, has Metro Hall been discussed as > an option? TPMA ( Toronto Product Managers Association, tpma.ca ) > uses it for their meetings. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 15:58:09 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:58:09 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505114728.K30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505114728.K30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050505155809.GA2001@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:47:28AM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > One other place has been thrown around. It is sort of car friendly > (street parking) and TTC friendly (Streetcar). That is the Ralph > Holton Center (sic) at Queen and Broadview. Let's go with 2 Fests... one at Scarborough UofT/Centennial, and another at Ralph Holton. This will satisfy those with car and without. Ed, can you move on this? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 16:10:17 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 12:10:17 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> Message-ID: <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> Seneca wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:35:03AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>Regarding Centennial College, the spot they are >>thinking about for the install fest is somewhere in >>their newest campus, the "Centennial HP Science and >>Technology Centre". This is at 755 Morningside Avenue >>(Morningside and Ellesmere Road, 1 km south of the >>401). In other words we are talking a more car >>friendly place than a TTC friendly place. Yes, I would >>love to do an install fest in the downtown core, and >>one in the west end of the city. But for now we have a >>bird in the hand and let's go with it. > > > Oh, what a nice location. It's at the edge of UofT Scarborough. > Parking there would be interesting; the parking lot I've seen is a few > metres above the entrances to the place that I know of. There is a > drop-off loop at the same altitude as the main entrance and stairs (and > sidewalks) that can be taken down there. There are also multiple bus > routes that go past it. > But, it's way out in Scarberia. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 16:19:23 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:19:23 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050505034541.GA1635-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505034541.GA1635@leftmind.net> Message-ID: On 5/4/05, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > > > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. > > > > As nothing was ever formalized, that isn't particularly relevant. > > They can claim prior art, or the organizational-naming equivalent thereof. > Even if the law ignores unincorporated entities and allows it to you > because you're the first to want to incorporate under that name, morally > they had the name first. Not when the incorporation process for GTALUG began in 2000, which makes it the "prior art." > > In the discussions on Tuesday, the myopia was quite interesting... > > The assumption seemed to be made that an "Installfest" MUST occur > > alongside a TTC subway station, despite the fact that the need for > > people to transport PCs makes such locations more or less the WORST > > possible. > > However, for practical purposes, if you're moving computers around you > want wheels, and that means a location with parking closeby and a > preference for the non-vehicle-hostile suburbs. There is also the notion that GTALUG shouldn't be vehicle-hostile, and shouldn't be hostile to those that have vehicles. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 16:35:19 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:35:19 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505034541.GA1635@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050505163519.GA2212@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 12:19:23PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > There is also the notion that GTALUG shouldn't be vehicle-hostile, and > shouldn't be hostile to those that have vehicles. Just to follow up... If you want more women showing up, then you need parking, because meeting (and dinner) will go pretty late. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 16:37:34 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050505163734.78077.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William Park wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:47:28AM -0400, > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > One other place has been thrown around. It is sort > of car friendly > > (street parking) and TTC friendly (Streetcar). > That is the Ralph > > Holton Center (sic) at Queen and Broadview. > > Let's go with 2 Fests... one at Scarborough > UofT/Centennial, and another > at Ralph Holton. This will satisfy those with car > and without. > > Ed, can you move on this? Questions I would want answered before looking at ANY location (downtown or elsewhere) include: - How much is power is available? If we are talking (for the sake of argument) 40 desktop PCs we could be talking the need for 20+ 15 amp circuits, this is a non-trivial amount of power... - What is the internet connectivity in the building? We may not need a lot of connectivity (i.e. looking up some how-to websites, download some drivers/security patches). Now, this is a different set of needs from a meeting space, where what we need is space for 40+ people, no internet, and power to support 1 video projector and laptop (yes, some spaces can meet both sets of requirements nicely, but I don't know if Ralph Holton is one of them). Ed, what more can you tell us about the space? Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 16:42:27 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:42:27 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <20050505110533.G30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On 5/5/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > Note that a GTALUG already exists, or existed, with Thamer and others > > forming it after Jan cast him out of paradise. > > That was GTABUG. That pretty much was stillborn the minute it started. No, it wasn't. is the web site for the GTA BSD Users Group, which was an active group, last I heard. They meet on the 3rd Tuesday of the month at Olympic 76 Pizza, near Yonge & Wellesley. Never had anything to do with Thamer AFAIK... I've been there a couple of times; good pizza, and some pretty good people. No sense of "organizing events" involved; they pretty well get together for the monthly social/technical interaction. They had the funniest story... There are often enough people that they arrange a large square of 8 little tables, where the centre is left open. Once, a pizza got lost in that centre spot, which has since received the name "/dev/null". Back in 2002, Thamer tried starting something up that was indeed called GTALUG. But just about the only references you can still find are in Google cache... > At the excutive level this has been a very real (if not written) policy of encouraging >either SIGs or other more convient venues for part of TLUG members to meet. >Geographically this is a very big city with very poor transportation facilities and many >small local meetings is the best way to get people together. Hear, hear! I mentioned this via the notion of encouraging having "SIGs". People have varying interests, and it seems to me that there is plenty of room for the strategy for connecting them to involve connecting people to Subjects Of Interest. Not everyone will care about every topic. The Installfest is a highly useful thing for helping out people who are novices to Linux. It may be of "negative interest level" to programmers. It won't be of much interest to "computing theoreticians," either. That's perfectly fine, as in a city of 3-odd million people, there's room for there to be a whole lot of events. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:16:09 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:16:09 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: ; from cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 12:42:27PM -0400 References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050505131609.O30773@diamond.ss.org> > > At the excutive level this has been a very real (if not written) policy of encouraging > >either SIGs or other more convient venues for part of TLUG members to meet. > >Geographically this is a very big city with very poor transportation > facilities and many > >small local meetings is the best way to get people together. > > Hear, hear! > > I mentioned this via the notion of encouraging having "SIGs". People > have varying interests, and it seems to me that there is plenty of > room for the strategy for connecting them to involve connecting people > to Subjects Of Interest. > > Not everyone will care about every topic. The Installfest is a highly > useful thing for helping out people who are novices to Linux. It may > be of "negative interest level" to programmers. It won't be of much > interest to "computing theoreticians," either. > > That's perfectly fine, as in a city of 3-odd million people, there's > room for there to be a whole lot of events. The only thing I ask if a small group wants to go off and do their own thing is to post a notice on TLUG mailing list saying they are doing it, and hopefully give a posting on how the event went. With our new Wiki, I'll add a post the results on the wiki. Some years back there was the Linux at the Movies, Linux Motorsports, and Linux Bike Club. They all seem to have disappeared, but I'm sure the people that took part in them are still around. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:08:34 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:08:34 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <427A4569.4040609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 12:10:17PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Seneca wrote: > >Oh, what a nice location. It's at the edge of UofT Scarborough. > >Parking there would be interesting; the parking lot I've seen is a few > >metres above the entrances to the place that I know of. There is a > >drop-off loop at the same altitude as the main entrance and stairs (and > >sidewalks) that can be taken down there. There are also multiple bus > >routes that go past it. > > > > But, it's way out in Scarberia. ;-) And so very easy to get to, just a five minute walk away. ;-) But really, this location is easy to get to from public transit, just so long as it isn't after 1:30am. My biggest concern about it really is just parking cost/availability (both of which depend upon time, date, and any arrangements made with the appropriate parking department) and getting non-laptops up and down the hill without damaging them. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:21:36 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 13:21:36 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <427A5620.7010804@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >Not everyone will care about every topic. The Installfest is a highly >useful thing for helping out people who are novices to Linux. It may >be of "negative interest level" to programmers. It won't be of much >interest to "computing theoreticians," either. > I've lost bits of this thread, but don't think I've seen mention of support for new users after the installfest. Though I know most of us are probably in the business of telling people to search out their answers on the web, or are paid to do just such a thing so others don't have to, to simply install a distro onto someone's computer will not be enough. Speaking only from personal experience, I remember my first few attempts at installing Corel and Redhat went perfectly. It was the frustration with poor documentation and breakage that kept me going back to MS until I broke that of course. With this in mind, then, would it be worth anyone's time to compile a list of forums, mailing-lists, links etc. to distribute to attendees? Morover, might a basic written manual about accessing man and info pages, as well as basic internet configuration guide be helpful? I think that to have these support mechanisms (if I may call them such) in place will go a long way to keeping any box clean of other more distasteful operating systems and will provide enough information to keep new users from becoming discouraged when they inevitably end up breaking something. Last note, how about a temporary forum for people to access after an installfest? If nothing else it would promote a sense of community amongst those just getting started and would allow for a common starting point and sharing of knowledge amongst new users. I should think that as ambassadors of the Linux community we owe it to ourseleves any everyone in the community to properly introduce new users into the community(ies). We all had to begin from scratch at some point -- starting new users off with a critical mass of information cannot but benefit everyone involved in the long run. Would it be easier to post forums, links, lists, etc. on a forum with a simple connectivity guide to get people started? Rather like a carrot dangled tantalizingly close but just far enough to get people walking on their own. My $0.02*5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:34:57 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:34:57 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <427A5620.7010804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> <427A5620.7010804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050505173457.GA2513@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:21:36PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I've lost bits of this thread, but don't think I've seen mention of > support for new users after the installfest. Though I know most of us > are probably in the business of telling people to search out their > answers on the web, or are paid to do just such a thing so others don't > have to, to simply install a distro onto someone's computer will not be > enough. Sounds like they need a "tutorial" or something... :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:43:22 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:43:22 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> Message-ID: <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:08:34PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > But really, this location is easy to get to from public transit, just so > long as it isn't after 1:30am. My biggest concern about it really is > just parking cost/availability (both of which depend upon time, date, > and any arrangements made with the appropriate parking department) and > getting non-laptops up and down the hill without damaging them. And after a quick walk to Centennial, I no longer have concerns about getting computers up or down hill. There's a bridge connecting the building to the parking lots. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:54:41 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:54:41 -0400 Subject: List of small organizations in Toronto Area? Message-ID: <20050505175441.GA2665@node1.opengeometry.net> Do you know any place which lists NGOs and other government funded organizations in Toronto area? If they are receiving funding, then I'm sure they're listed somewhere. I'm looking for small organizations, who are big enough to afford bunch of computers, but not big enough to afford sysadmins. A perfect candidate for Linux thin-client solution. It's time for old-fashioned "cold calling". Thanks, -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 17:55:34 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:55:34 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> Message-ID: <20050505175534.GA2755@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:43:22PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:08:34PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > > But really, this location is easy to get to from public transit, > > just so long as it isn't after 1:30am. My biggest concern about it > > really is just parking cost/availability (both of which depend upon > > time, date, and any arrangements made with the appropriate parking > > department) and getting non-laptops up and down the hill without > > damaging them. > > And after a quick walk to Centennial, I no longer have concerns about > getting computers up or down hill. There's a bridge connecting the > building to the parking lots. I thought parking was free. How much for parking? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 18:05:26 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:05:26 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505163734.78077.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505163734.78077.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050505180526.GA17845@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 12:37:34PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- William Park wrote: > > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:47:28AM -0400, > > billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > One other place has been thrown around. It is sort > > of car friendly > > > (street parking) and TTC friendly (Streetcar). > > That is the Ralph > > > Holton Center (sic) at Queen and Broadview. > > > > Let's go with 2 Fests... one at Scarborough > > UofT/Centennial, and another > > at Ralph Holton. This will satisfy those with car > > and without. > > > > Ed, can you move on this? > > Questions I would want answered before looking at ANY > location (downtown or elsewhere) include: > > - How much is power is available? If we are talking > (for the sake of argument) 40 desktop PCs we could be > talking the need for 20+ 15 amp circuits, this is a > non-trivial amount of power... > > - What is the internet connectivity in the building? > We may not need a lot of connectivity (i.e. looking up > some how-to websites, download some drivers/security > patches). > > Now, this is a different set of needs from a meeting > space, where what we need is space for 40+ people, no > internet, and power to support 1 video projector and > laptop (yes, some spaces can meet both sets of > requirements nicely, but I don't know if Ralph Holton > is one of them). Ed, what more can you tell us about > the space? First, that is the Ralph Thornton Community Center ^^^^^^^^ I've been there a number of times, the Ontario Folk Dance Association has been having dances there about once per month for a few years. I haven't been involved with TLUG's negotiations about using the Center, but I can comment on the facilities to some extent. Space: The room on the second floor (where the dancing happens) has enough space to set up 7 or 8 tables (large enough to 8 people to have a meal) plus a number of table near the end wall to hold a buffet, all in one third of the room and keep enough space for 50-80 people to dance in a circle in the remaining space. The tables are in the room, as well as lots of stacking chairs. There is also a third floor, so my comments only are useful if you are getting the same location as I am used to. Power: There are a number of wall outlets around the room for power (maybe 4 or 5? and I don't know whether they are on separate circuits). I don't think you need a separate circuit for every pair of computers, but this may still be a limitation if you get 20 or more computers going. Internet: I have no idea whether there is Internet access; I would guess not, but I have seen computers running in other parts of the building so this is not a certain problem. If they do not have Internet available, you could still get by if you use a digital cell phone interface. (Shop around carefully, $10/MB seems to be the going price for "excess" usage, but Telus at least has an unlimited plan for $100/month and they may prorate the charge if you cancel again after using it for a portion of the month. Rogers, on the other hand, does not have an unlimited data plan.) I'm going to be using this setup for the Perl6/PUGS Hackathon at my cottage just before the YAPC::NA conference in June, so I'll have exact info, including the after-the-fact hidden surprises kind of info, by mid-July. This connection is rated at 100 Mb/s but I've been told that works out more like 60 Mb/s in practice - a bit faster than a dial-up modem. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 18:20:46 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:20:46 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505175534.GA2755-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> <20050505175534.GA2755@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050505182046.GE6119@sophocles> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:55:34PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:43:22PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:08:34PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > > > But really, this location is easy to get to from public transit, > > > just so long as it isn't after 1:30am. My biggest concern about it > > > really is just parking cost/availability (both of which depend upon > > > time, date, and any arrangements made with the appropriate parking > > > department) and getting non-laptops up and down the hill without > > > damaging them. > > > > And after a quick walk to Centennial, I no longer have concerns about > > getting computers up or down hill. There's a bridge connecting the > > building to the parking lots. > > I thought parking was free. How much for parking? Depends upon the day and time (and seeing if Parking Services can be convinced to give us free parking). For Centennial, the best lots are UTSC's outer lots and the fee is either $2 (weekend, friday after 4pm), $5 (weekday after 4pm), or $10 (weekday)[1]. Centennial does not appear to have its own parking and relies upon the UTSC lots[2], with lots 3 and 4 being the closest to the bridge[3]. [1] [2] [3], not to scale, slightly out-of-date, and does not show the upper drop-off loop or bridge -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 18:59:28 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:59:28 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505182046.GE6119@sophocles> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> <20050505175534.GA2755@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050505182046.GE6119@sophocles> Message-ID: <20050505185928.GA3079@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 02:20:46PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > > I thought parking was free. How much for parking? > > Depends upon the day and time (and seeing if Parking Services can be > convinced to give us free parking). For Centennial, the best lots are > UTSC's outer lots and the fee is either $2 (weekend, friday after > 4pm), $5 (weekday after 4pm), or $10 (weekday)[1]. Centennial does > not appear to have its own parking and relies upon the UTSC lots[2], > with lots 3 and 4 being the closest to the bridge[3]. > > [1] > [2] > [3], not to scale, > slightly out-of-date, and does not show the upper drop-off loop or > bridge Oh well, so much for that idea... Paying for parking, after driving all the way there, will be too much for our target audience. Any news Ed? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 19:37:34 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:37:34 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505185928.GA3079-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> <20050505175534.GA2755@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050505182046.GE6119@sophocles> <20050505185928.GA3079@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050505193734.GA25275@sophocles> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 02:59:28PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Oh well, so much for that idea... Paying for parking, after driving all > the way there, will be too much for our target audience. Just because the default ends up having people pay for parking? I was just at Parking Services, and while GTALUG on its own doesn't warrant free parking, in their opinion, we still have possibilities. If we can get a department of UTSC, or potentially Centennial (although the person at Parking Services didn't mention them), to talk with them, we may be able to work out some parking arrangement. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 20:05:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:05:35 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> References: <20050505143503.15491.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505150311.GB6119@sophocles> <427A4569.4040609@rogers.com> <20050505170834.GC6119@sophocles> <20050505174322.GD6119@sophocles> Message-ID: <427A7C8F.3010309@rogers.com> Seneca wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 01:08:34PM -0400, Seneca wrote: > >>But really, this location is easy to get to from public transit, just so >>long as it isn't after 1:30am. My biggest concern about it really is >>just parking cost/availability (both of which depend upon time, date, >>and any arrangements made with the appropriate parking department) and >>getting non-laptops up and down the hill without damaging them. > > > And after a quick walk to Centennial, I no longer have concerns about > getting computers up or down hill. There's a bridge connecting the > building to the parking lots. > Bridge or router? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 20:10:11 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:10:11 -0700 Subject: Install FestJune 06, 2005 Message-ID: <20050505201011.GD10108@unleashed.org> I am pleased to announce the next GTALUG installfest. Details are available at: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/InstallFests:2005-06 NOTE: This is a work in progress, please check back frequently for updates. Also, we need volunteers to help, please check the page for details. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 20:40:38 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:40:38 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: <20050505180526.GA17845-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505163734.78077.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505180526.GA17845@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 5/5/05, John Macdonald wrote: > Power: > > There are a number of wall outlets around the room for power > (maybe 4 or 5? and I don't know whether they are on separate > circuits). I don't think you need a separate circuit for > every pair of computers, but this may still be a limitation if > you get 20 or more computers going. If power turns out to be a problem, one answer would be to bring in a few UPSes. That would "filter out" the extra power drawn at powerup time for any given PC. It doesn't take that much power to keep them going; the challenge is to get them started. Of course, that means some lead acid batteries to lug around :-(. > Internet: > > I have no idea whether there is Internet access; I would > guess not, but I have seen computers running in other parts > of the building so this is not a certain problem. If they > do not have Internet available, you could still get by if you > use a digital cell phone interface. (Shop around carefully, > $10/MB seems to be the going price for "excess" usage, but > Telus at least has an unlimited plan for $100/month and they > may prorate the charge if you cancel again after using it > for a portion of the month. Rogers, on the other hand, does > not have an unlimited data plan.) I'm going to be using this > setup for the Perl6/PUGS Hackathon at my cottage just before > the YAPC::NA conference in June, so I'll have exact info, > including the after-the-fact hidden surprises kind of info, > by mid-July. This connection is rated at 100 Mb/s but I've > been told that works out more like 60 Mb/s in practice - > a bit faster than a dial-up modem. This sort of thing makes it vital to have ONE machine that is the "gateway machine" which lets you NFS mount as much as possible as well as having a Squid proxy so that files get reused as heavily as possible across installs. Indeed, it would be worthwhile to "prime the cache" while on a fast network :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 20:55:43 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:55:43 -0400 Subject: Further Follow-ups In-Reply-To: References: <20050505163734.78077.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050505180526.GA17845@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050505205543.GA3902@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 04:40:38PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/5/05, John Macdonald wrote: > > Power: > > > > There are a number of wall outlets around the room for power (maybe > > 4 or 5? and I don't know whether they are on separate circuits). I > > don't think you need a separate circuit for every pair of computers, > > but this may still be a limitation if you get 20 or more computers > > going. > > If power turns out to be a problem, one answer would be to bring in a > few UPSes. That would "filter out" the extra power drawn at powerup > time for any given PC. It doesn't take that much power to keep them > going; the challenge is to get them started. Of course, that means > some lead acid batteries to lug around :-(. I'll donate gas (in my car) to carry UPSs to and from. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 21:07:15 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:07:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Scot Elcomb Message-ID: <20050505170715.U30773@diamond.ss.org> Hi, Scott I don't have your email written down correctly. Can you send it to me privately. Thanks. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 21:39:42 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:39:42 -0700 Subject: Install FestJune 04, 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050505201011.GD10108-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505201011.GD10108@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050505213942.GC14008@unleashed.org> Date correction. () [050505 13:10]: > I am pleased to announce the next GTALUG installfest. Details are > available at: > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/InstallFests:2005-06 > > NOTE: This is a work in progress, please check back frequently for > updates. Also, we need volunteers to help, please check the page > for details. > -- > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > -------------------------------------------------- > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > -------------------------------------------------- -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:13:50 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 05 May 2005 18:13:50 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi there, I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know of. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:21:15 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 05 May 2005 18:21:15 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. Sorry to follow up to my own post. I'm looking for eastern Ontario schools. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:26:13 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 18:26:13 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <427933CB.707-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1115223230.26900.6.camel@localhost> <427933CB.707@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1115331973.12043.5.camel@localhost> > > Setup a cafepress shop ... > > Importing Cafepress stuff is extortionate, and there has to be a local > store that does good quality printing ... > > Stewart Well if some shop will take on printing shirts or irregular basis, and has a web interface, which isn't really required, but nice to have. Cafepress is sort of the idea. pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:26:55 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:26:55 -0700 Subject: InstallfestsVenue In-Reply-To: <1115236456.24167.169.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <20050505222654.GF14008@unleashed.org> > Facility: > Check the network before the 'fest. 'Nuff said. Have long, long > extension cords so you can spread the load to other circuits if power > starts to get flaky. Have the computers spread out on different > circuits to start with if possible. Please note that the facility is limited for space, thus I am stressing that anyone who thinks they would like to attend send me at least an email, preferably with the information mentioned on the website. We may have to schedule timing a bit, and in the case that we are full, this is a first RSVP/first serve kind of event. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:30:12 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 18:30:12 -0400 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <200505050825.41182.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <427A9E74.4000703@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > Since Linux will spread, eventually that will be contested too. A > solution: apply a country.region.town.organisation naming scheme. That > would be, in domain name order: > > lug.tor.ca (or lug.tor.on.ca) > > Which could be spelled out as '(The) Linux User Group of Toronto, > Canada' . > Then you could have nlug.tor.ca (New ...) etc. No more contention. > Also very search-engine-friendly. I like it a lot. Less arbitrary, clear and scalable. A sorted list of LUGs, so named, groups regions beautifully. Of course, until the scheme is adopted nationally, aliases would have to be used. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:35:56 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:35:56 -0700 Subject: Meeting updates... In-Reply-To: <427A5620.7010804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c550c1$67dbdea0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050504225542.F23204@leftmind.net> <20050505110533.G30773@diamond.ss.org> <427A5620.7010804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050505223556.GG14008@unleashed.org> Jamon Camisso (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) [050505 10:22]: > With this in mind, then, would it be worth anyone's time to compile a > list of forums, mailing-lists, links etc. to distribute to attendees? > Morover, might a basic written manual about accessing man and info > pages, as well as basic internet configuration guide be helpful? I think > that to have these support mechanisms (if I may call them such) in place > will go a long way to keeping any box clean of other more distasteful > operating systems and will provide enough information to keep new users > from becoming discouraged when they inevitably end up breaking something. The wiki is a great place to start doing this, then people can be pointed there. http://tlug.ss.org/wiki -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:44:46 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 18:44:46 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050505224446.GL16067@gedris.org> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:21:15PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > > of. > > Sorry to follow up to my own post. I'm looking for eastern Ontario schools. I'm pretty sure Mohawk College (Hamilton) has Linux courses. They also host the Hamilton LUG. Algonquin does a ton on Linux stuff, as part of their regular full-time programs as well as continuing education courses. Cheers, Vic - Algonquin College Linux prof., moving to TO this week. -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 22:48:11 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 18:48:11 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: ; from matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050505184811.A15152@ee.ryerson.ca> Centennial College, 'CNET303 Operating Systems'. It's taught at their Morningside-Ellesmere campus. Peter On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 23:26:16 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:26:16 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? References: Message-ID: <002e01c551c9$d62a4d20$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "G. Matthew Rice" on Thursday, May 05, 2005 6:21 PM wrote: > "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > > of. > > Sorry to follow up to my own post. I'm looking for eastern Ontario schools. I am not sure how extensive their program is, but Centennial College does offer some Linux and Unix courses. Centennial College had a small (10 x 10) booth at the Linux World Canada show. Also, we are talking to Centennial College staff about doing Linux install fests at Centennial... A quick look around the Centennial College website turned up the following: http://www.centennialcollege.ca/coursepdf/CNET-303.pdf Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 23:43:02 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:43:02 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: ; from matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050505194302.Y30773@diamond.ss.org> Centenial is starting a program Bill On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 5 23:50:23 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:50:23 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: ; from matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050505195023.Z30773@diamond.ss.org> After reading so more of this thread, I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. If you are asking is linux taught as part of another course, then I would hazard to guess that all Universities with a CompSci department probably has an OS course where parts of the linux kernel is used as an example (This is what scheduler code looks like, this is a filesystem, etc...). If you are asking for schools that basic Unix for users or sysadmins, I think you are looking at a lot fewer schools. Bill On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 06:13:50PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. > > Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 00:49:49 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 20:49:49 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: <20050505195023.Z30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505195023.Z30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: I have a friend who's doing computer engineering at U of T and he says that all of his programming courses are in the Unix environment. Centennial College offers a *very* basic Unix course in the third semester of the Computer Programmer/Analyst program. They basically have Red Hat 7 running on an IBM S/390 that students can telnet/ssh into (although the course does not even mention SSH!) Free software has a small but faithful "underground" at Centennial. Unfortunately Microsoft gives the college a lot of money to keep things as homogenous as possible so the odds of seeing (for example) Firefox added to the default workstation image are virtually none, let alone Linux making inroads into actual classes! On the other hand my C# teacher nearly did a backflip when I told him about Mono. My advice is to work free software into your own homework environment. If you find something that works well, let your prof know and they might even ask for you to demo it for the class. I've been using OpenOffice, Mono and Eclipse to do all of my work so far, and I let people know about it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 01:19:41 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 21:19:41 -0400 Subject: Extremely OT. Message-ID: <20050505211941.D30773@diamond.ss.org> This is extremely Off Topic, So you have been Warned. A friend of Mine is having a preview of a Improvized longform show at the Bad Dog Theatre ( http://www.baddogtheatre.com/modules/news/ ) and I'm trying to get people to attend. The show is May 12th at 8 pm. The cost is $8. The theatre is 138 Danforth Ave. Just East of the Broadview Subway station. So if you love comedy, or live theatre please try to make it out. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 02:20:48 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 22:20:48 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name Message-ID: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. Thanks! Madison PS - I posted this on TPM for anyone subscribed to there but I didn't get any replies so I am hoping for better luck here. :p -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 02:39:35 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 22:39:35 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <427AD480.2080007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0400 References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> Hi. I'm not sure if this will work, but try to match all the valid characters. if ($filename =~ m/[A-Z][a-z][0-9]/) { # do something } Just a thought Bill Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is > dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid > unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and > the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column > file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. > > Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to > make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch > this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I > already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. > > Thanks! > > Madison > > PS - I posted this on TPM for anyone subscribed to there but I didn't > get any replies so I am hoping for better luck here. :p > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up > http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 03:27:41 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:27:41 +0800 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? Message-ID: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> i got this data from our server killing almost all of our services.. can someone help me here... do i need to upgrade or anything.. im using redhat 9 with 2.4.27 SMP tia, May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process sshd May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process iwrite_globe May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:13:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: VM: killing process croncallboykann May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process mms_forwarder May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:14:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh May 5 18:15:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process iwrite_globe May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: VM: killing process croncallboykann May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:16 earth last message repeated 2 times May 5 18:16:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process forwarder May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: VM: killing process curl May 5 18:16:19 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 12 May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process emacs May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process off_keyword May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:20:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:27 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe May 5 18:22:56 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:15 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth last message repeated 2 times May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process java May 5 18:30:38 earth sshd[25651]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59842 ssh2 May 5 18:36:10 earth sshd[2006]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59877 ssh2 May 5 18:38:17 earth sshd[5160]: Accepted password for nsadmin from 192.168.6.35 port 1964 ssh2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 03:45:03 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 23:45:03 -0400 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <200505061127.41152.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>; from jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800 References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> This looks like you ran out of memory + swap to me. Did a reboot fix anything? Bill On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800, JM wrote: > i got this data from our server killing almost all of our services.. can someone help me here... do i need to upgrade or anything.. > > im using redhat 9 with 2.4.27 SMP > > tia, > > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process sshd > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process iwrite_globe > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:13:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: VM: killing process croncallboykann > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process mms_forwarder > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:14:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh > May 5 18:15:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process iwrite_globe > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: VM: killing process croncallboykann > May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:16 earth last message repeated 2 times > May 5 18:16:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process forwarder > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: VM: killing process curl > May 5 18:16:19 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 12 > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process emacs > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail > May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail > May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh > May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process off_keyword > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:20:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:22:27 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > May 5 18:22:56 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh > May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process dlr_handler_236 > May 5 18:23:15 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:16 earth last message repeated 2 times > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process dlr_handler_236 > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > May 5 18:30:38 earth sshd[25651]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59842 ssh2 > May 5 18:36:10 earth sshd[2006]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59877 ssh2 > May 5 18:38:17 earth sshd[5160]: Accepted password for nsadmin from 192.168.6.35 port 1964 ssh2 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 03:53:49 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:53:49 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050505223935.E30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <427AEA4D.70303@alteeve.com> Thanks for the reply! The trick is though that I have several valid unicode file names (ie: files using Japanese kana/kanji characters). These file names are accepted just fine and it is important that unicode support remains. If there is a regex that cought all valid unicodes and wasn't too expensive that would be great. Madison billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi. > > I'm not sure if this will work, but try to match all the valid characters. > > if ($filename =~ m/[A-Z][a-z][0-9]/) { > # do something > } > > Just a thought > > Bill > > Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >> I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is >>dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid >>unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and >>the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column >>file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. >> >> Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to >>make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch >>this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I >>already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. >> >> Thanks! >> >>Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 05:38:02 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 01:38:02 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <4278EDCD.7010007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4278EDCD.7010007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: I could print out 25-50 but i can't guarantee that I can make it to the meeting. I have a laser printer so it's cheaper that BubbleJet or InkJet. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of David J Patrick Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:44 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re: Canada's own DMCA Rob Sutherland wrote: > There's currently an attempt to get petitions to Ottawa to > >protest this move. (http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition) > Lets have a stack of petitions on hand for the next general meeting (Tues,May 10) to sign on the spot and perhaps to take away for further signatures. Anyone up to the print out task ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 06:12:28 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 02:12:28 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? Message-ID: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 06:21:52 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 14:21:52 +0800 Subject: OT: RT users help In-Reply-To: <20050427083823.D4899-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <200504271642.36919.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050427083823.D4899@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200505061421.52780.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Wednesday 27 April 2005 20:38, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > You may have done this but, > > 1) Is the file in the place it believes it too be? are you talking about .pm file -r--r--r-- 1 root root 34132 Nov 7 03:34 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm > 2) Is apache configured to allow this application to run ( ie is there a > SetHandler for this in your apache.conf)? PerlModule Apache::DBI PerlRequire /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl RewriteEngine On RedirectMatch permanent (.*)/$ $1/index.html AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler RT::Mason -rwxr-xr-x 1 root rt 4510 Apr 7 16:07 /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl > 3) Is the permissions on the file > correct (ie is it readable to apache (rwxrwx---) > > That's about all I can think of without sitting in front of the box. > > Bill > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 04:42:36PM +0800, JM wrote: > > Hi ALL, > > > > ive tried asking help from RT list but unfortunately no one cares.. : ) > > > > anyway.. im getting this error on my apache when ever i try to access RT. > > [Wed Apr 27 08:39:52 2005] [crit]: Can't call method "FETCH" on an > > undefined value at > > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 1032. > > > > Stack: > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:1032] > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:953] > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/Request.pm:390] > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:176] > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/Request.pm:353] > > (/opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl:138) > > > > any idea how i can fix this? > > > > tia, > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 06:23:40 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 14:23:40 +0800 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <20050505234503.F30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200505061423.40486.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hmm.. i havent tried rebooting the box.. but im thinking of a long term solution without rebooting.. would adding addtional memory modules work? On Friday 06 May 2005 11:45, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > This looks like you ran out of memory + swap to me. > > Did a reboot fix anything? > > Bill > > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800, JM wrote: > > i got this data from our server killing almost all of our services.. can > > someone help me here... do i need to upgrade or anything.. > > > > im using redhat 9 with 2.4.27 SMP > > > > tia, > > > > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process sshd > > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > > May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > iwrite_globe > > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process java > > May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:13:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process croncallboykann May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: > > 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: > > killing process gsmsbox > > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > mms_forwarder > > May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:14:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process modprobe > > May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > > May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh > > May 5 18:15:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process sendmail > > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond > > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > iwrite_globe > > May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process croncallboykann May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: > > 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:16 earth last > > message repeated 2 times > > May 5 18:16:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process forwarder > > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: VM: killing process curl > > May 5 18:16:19 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: kmod: > > failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 12 May 5 18:17:22 > > earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May > > 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process smsbox > > May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process emacs > > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox > > May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail > > May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail > > May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process sh > > May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process smsbox > > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > off_keyword > > May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:20:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:27 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: > > __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 > > earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe > > May 5 18:22:56 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process sh > > May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:15 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth last message > > repeated 2 times > > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox > > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond > > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process > > dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing > > process smsbox > > May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > > (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process java > > May 5 18:30:38 earth sshd[25651]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from > > 192.168.6.70 port 59842 ssh2 May 5 18:36:10 earth sshd[2006]: Accepted > > publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59877 ssh2 May 5 18:38:17 > > earth sshd[5160]: Accepted password for nsadmin from 192.168.6.35 port > > 1964 ssh2 -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 07:10:54 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 03:10:54 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506061228.GA3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1115363454.13453.3.camel@localhost> ? ???, 06/05/2005 ? 02:12 -0400, Walter Dnes ?????: > In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a > 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of > Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I > believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond > that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? > Well benchmarks are real tricky thing here, as in general performance. Most people know that AMD kicks ass, but if say code was optimized blindly for Intel chips you might be not so lucky. I'd say arrange a list of most important applications and search google for what people think of the chip and software combinations... Generic benchmarks don't show responsiveness of hardware, some other peculiar semi-subjective bits. hth, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 08:03:07 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:03:07 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506061228.GA3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: > In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a > 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of > Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I > believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond > that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? tomshardware has a number of comparisons. There are other places. AMD machines work very well under Linux, sometimes better than under other OSs. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 12:51:29 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 08:51:29 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506061228.GA3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <427B6851.4030004@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a > 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of > Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I > believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond > that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? > You might try http://www.tomshardware.com/index.html or Scott Meuller's book "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" If I were buying a system today, I'd be looking at the AMD64 CPUs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 12:59:52 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 08:59:52 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <1115363454.13453.3.camel@localhost> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> <1115363454.13453.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <427B6A48.5030703@rogers.com> Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > ? ???, 06/05/2005 ? 02:12 -0400, Walter Dnes ?????: > >> In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a >>486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of >>Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I >>believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond >>that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? >> > > > Well benchmarks are real tricky thing here, as in general performance. > Most people know that AMD kicks ass, but if say code was optimized > blindly > for Intel chips you might be not so lucky. I'd say arrange a list of > most important > applications and search google for what people think of the chip and > software > combinations... Generic benchmarks don't show responsiveness of > hardware, > some other peculiar semi-subjective bits. > hth, > pavel One nice thing about Linux, is that you can recomplile the software, so that it's optimal for your system. However, is the potential performance improvement worth the effort? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 09:34:18 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 05:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <200505061423.40486.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <200505061423.40486.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 May 2005, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > hmm.. i havent tried rebooting the box.. but im thinking of a long term > solution without rebooting.. would adding addtional memory modules work? If you hit an OOM condition then adding more memory is fine as long as the new amount is sufficient to allow the box to run without hitting another OOM later (ie, ideally you'd want to know how far short of the mark memory went). Adding swap (which can be done on the fly, with nothing more than a prepared file) is a good short term fix to an approaching OOM (assuming you don't want to start killing processes yourself). You may wish to add lots of swap and monitor swap usage over time to see how much additional memory may be needed to run the system well). Before anyone says "but swap is slow Rob!" consider some points: 1. I'm suggesting swap be used to avoid an OOM until such time as the actual memory requirements can be properly assessed. 2. Swap allows the system to free up real memory for use in caching. Many processes running on a long lived system rarely hit the cpu. Allowing them to be swapped is a big win in performance. 3. The system overheads of having more swap than you need are really minimal. OOM conditions can ruin your day. Think of it as an insurance policy. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 13:50:46 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:50:46 -0400 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <200505061423.40486.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <200505061423.40486.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <427B7636.5060905@quadratic.net> I highly recommend setting up monitoring tools to examine the memory usage over time. http://www.quadratic.net/~david/gnuplot/#Sar_Analysis As far as I can tell linux caches disk reads until all memeory is used (at least iwth this version). Which leaves precious little headroom for new allocations. I have yet to understand all of this, despite reading up a bit: http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel/projects/vm/guide/pdf/understand.pdf I'm a big ITIL freek, so a reboot crosses me as "incident management" and really fixing the cause is "problem management". Reboot is a good short term fix (incident resolution) , but we should be working toward the long term fix (problem resolution). In our case we had 5 web servers running tomcat. We moved to resin and the problem went away. Java apps are notorius ( in my experiance) with being poorly created. My experience has been that app delveopers think that because of all the fancy memory management that java does , they can build apps that use memeory like it's an unlimited resource. I'm not an software dev guy so I'm relegated to pooring through code I don't "get" and suggesting that maybe an sql lookup would be better than a java collection. sigh. david Jerome Macaranas wrote: >hmm.. i havent tried rebooting the box.. but im thinking of a long term >solution without rebooting.. would adding addtional memory modules work? > >On Friday 06 May 2005 11:45, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >>This looks like you ran out of memory + swap to me. >> >>Did a reboot fix anything? >> >>Bill >> >>On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800, JM wrote: >> >> >>>i got this data from our server killing almost all of our services.. can >>>someone help me here... do i need to upgrade or anything.. >>> >>>im using redhat 9 with 2.4.27 SMP >>> >>>tia, >>> >>>May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process sshd >>>May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe >>>May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:10:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:42 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:48 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>iwrite_globe >>>May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process java >>>May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:11:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:13:09 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:13:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:28 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process croncallboykann May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: >>>0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: >>>killing process gsmsbox >>>May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe >>>May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>mms_forwarder >>>May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:14:29 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:14:30 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:29 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process modprobe >>>May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:32 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:34 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe >>>May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:36 earth kernel: VM: killing process sh >>>May 5 18:15:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:39 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process sendmail >>>May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond >>>May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>iwrite_globe >>>May 5 18:15:40 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process croncallboykann May 5 18:16:12 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: >>>0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:16 earth last >>>message repeated 2 times >>>May 5 18:16:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process forwarder >>>May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:17 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:16:18 earth kernel: VM: killing process curl >>>May 5 18:16:19 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: kmod: >>>failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 12 May 5 18:17:22 >>>earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May >>>5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process smsbox >>>May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:17:22 earth kernel: VM: killing process emacs >>>May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process gsmsbox >>>May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail >>>May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: VM: killing process sendmail >>>May 5 18:18:37 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:18:38 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process sh >>>May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:01 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:48 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process smsbox >>>May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>off_keyword >>>May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:19:49 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:20:29 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:27 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 earth kernel: >>>__alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:30 >>>earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:31 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:22:55 earth kernel: VM: killing process modprobe >>>May 5 18:22:56 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process sh >>>May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:14 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:15 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth last message >>>repeated 2 times >>>May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process smsbox >>>May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process crond >>>May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process >>>dlr_handler_236 May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing >>>process smsbox >>>May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed >>>(gfp=0x1d2/0) May 5 18:23:16 earth kernel: VM: killing process java >>>May 5 18:30:38 earth sshd[25651]: Accepted publickey for nsadmin from >>>192.168.6.70 port 59842 ssh2 May 5 18:36:10 earth sshd[2006]: Accepted >>>publickey for nsadmin from 192.168.6.70 port 59877 ssh2 May 5 18:38:17 >>>earth sshd[5160]: Accepted password for nsadmin from 192.168.6.35 port >>>1964 ssh2 -- >>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >>> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 14:27:00 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:27:00 -0400 Subject: Gnumeric automatic recalc? Message-ID: <20050506142528.742B32C374@gprs.fido.ca> How do I get gnumeric to automatically recalc cells that refer to cells in another tab? I've searched everywhere but can't figure it out. When I change values in the other tab, the formulas referring to them don't update. Thanks for any help! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 14:42:00 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:42:00 -0400 Subject: Installfest - hardware Message-ID: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to bring (other than computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not cart around my 19" CRT if I didn't have to! For the record, I currently have: Fedora, Novell Desktop, Xandros & MS XP. I'm thinking of installing either Slackware or Debian to replace Novell or Xandros. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 14:46:14 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:46:14 -0400 Subject: Installfest - hardware In-Reply-To: <20050506144037.C369D2C365-KZHZ5J/lVGJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: Just let us know what you need. We will try to bring a couple of monitors so that people don't have to lug them around. If we have a count ahead of time it will help. -Joseph- On 5/6/05, Steve wrote: > If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to bring (other than computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not cart around my 19" CRT if I didn't have to! > > For the record, I currently have: Fedora, Novell Desktop, Xandros & MS XP. I'm thinking of installing either Slackware or Debian to replace Novell or Xandros. > > Thanks. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 14:51:35 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:51:35 -0400 Subject: Installfest - Monitors In-Reply-To: <20050506144037.C369D2C365-KZHZ5J/lVGJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: On 5/6/05, Steve wrote: > If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to bring (other than >computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not cart around my 19" CRT if I >didn't have to! Good question! If the number of machines being worked with remains fairly small, it could be reasonable to anticipate that there would be a few monitors brought along so that you'd not forcibly need to bring one. That obviously adds to the "InstallFest Kit" manifest 'a few monitors.' If it is planned to have 20 PCs getting simultaneously "Linuxed," it gets pretty unreasonable for someone to bring 20 monitors, particularly not 19" monsters! This raises an issue... Configuring X is always somewhat monitor-dependent, with the result that that portion of the process may not be entirely successful unless you bring YOUR monitor. It's probably easy enough to have an extra couple keyboards and mice tucked away in the "spare hardware" box, but the "How do I configure X?" issue presents a reason that you might want to consider bringing your monitor. I haven't done much X config work in the last couple of years, so the issues may have changed somewhat, tho that would surprise me... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 15:00:04 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:00:04 -0400 Subject: Installfest - hardware In-Reply-To: <20050506144037.C369D2C365-KZHZ5J/lVGJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: <20050506150004.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0400, Steve wrote: > If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to > bring (other than computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not > cart around my 19" CRT if I didn't have to! We should have few monitors there. > > For the record, I currently have: Fedora, Novell Desktop, Xandros & MS > XP. I'm thinking of installing either Slackware or Debian to replace > Novell or Xandros. Try Slackware. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 15:10:15 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 11:10:15 -0400 Subject: Installfest - Printers / Scanners In-Reply-To: References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: <1115392215.24167.327.camel@holden.weait.net> On Fri, 2005-05-06 at 10:51, Christopher Browne wrote: [ ... ] > This raises an issue... Configuring X is always somewhat > monitor-dependent, with the result that that portion of the process > may not be entirely successful unless you bring YOUR monitor. Quite so. The same applies to printers, scanners and modems. While all of these areas have improved recently you'll need to judge for yourself. Is scanning the most important thing for you? best bring the scanner and throw a bunch of experts at it then. (Even better if you Google {linux distro} {scanner model number} in advance, too) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 15:13:10 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 11:13:10 -0400 Subject: Installfest - Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: <427B8986.6020502@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >This raises an issue... Configuring X is always somewhat >monitor-dependent, with the result that that portion of the process >may not be entirely successful unless you bring YOUR monitor. > > A serious issue, at that ! Lugging monitors is a drag. having monitors on hand is quite doable, but installing a config for the wrong monitor would not be a good thing. Might the instalee be able to have a workable config if he/she came with CPU and monitor model #s ? or at very least, resolution/size info. ? >It's probably easy enough to have an extra couple keyboards and mice >tucked away in the "spare hardware" box, but the "How do I configure >X?" issue presents a reason that you might want to consider bringing >your monitor. > > To be avoided, of at all possible. Perhaps the ideal install kit (think; installmobile) would have a 15", a 17" and a 21", maybe even an LCD, so that the install might approximate the users setup. This issue might have an influence on the recommended distro(s) preferring those with flexible display hardware recognition/ post-install-configuration abilities. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 15:17:13 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:17:13 -0400 Subject: Installfest - Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: <20050506151713.GA9555@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 10:51:35AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >On 5/6/05, Steve wrote: >> If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to bring (other than >>computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not cart around my >>19" CRT if I didn't have to! > >Good question! > >If the number of machines being worked with remains fairly small, it >could be reasonable to anticipate that there would be a few monitors >brought along so that you'd not forcibly need to bring one. That >obviously adds to the "InstallFest Kit" manifest 'a few monitors.' A non-trivial amount of the time to install Linux is filesystem formatting and file copying - perhaps a couple of KVMs would allow a single monitor to get a bunch of people set up without too much additional freight. >It's probably easy enough to have an extra couple keyboards and mice >tucked away in the "spare hardware" box, but the "How do I configure >X?" issue presents a reason that you might want to consider bringing >your monitor. > >I haven't done much X config work in the last couple of years, so the >issues may have changed somewhat, tho that would surprise me... This is less of a concern in the modern era though - I have found that Knoppix will generate an X config that will serve most in most cases. Mepis also seems to "get it right", especially with their "Install OS" desktop icon. Where this method breaks down in my experience is in multi-monitor configurations. Still, last time I installed Debian it was impossible for me to use software to configure X - I had to have an example config to hand to get things working, so it is still a problem. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 15:18:51 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 11:18:51 -0400 Subject: Installfest - hardware In-Reply-To: <20050506150004.GA2451-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> <20050506150004.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <427B8ADB.70608@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0400, Steve wrote: > >>If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to >>bring (other than computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not >>cart around my 19" CRT if I didn't have to! > > > We should have few monitors there. > > >>For the record, I currently have: Fedora, Novell Desktop, Xandros & MS >>XP. I'm thinking of installing either Slackware or Debian to replace >>Novell or Xandros. > > > Try Slackware. :-) > No Yggdrasil??? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:04:12 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:04:12 -0400 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <200505061423.40486.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>; from jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:23:40PM +0800 References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <200505061423.40486.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050506120412.A15395@diamond.ss.org> Yes more memory always works. also set up swap so that there is at least as much of it as real memory, hopefully more. Finally you should tune apache not to spawn off that many children. Bill On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:23:40PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > hmm.. i havent tried rebooting the box.. but im thinking of a long term > solution without rebooting.. would adding addtional memory modules work? > > On Friday 06 May 2005 11:45, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > This looks like you ran out of memory + swap to me. > > > > Did a reboot fix anything? > > > > Bill > > > > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800, JM wrote: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:26:52 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:26:52 -0400 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <427B7636.5060905-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org>; from david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 06, 2005 at 09:50:46AM -0400 References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050505234503.F30773@diamond.ss.org> <200505061423.40486.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <427B7636.5060905@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20050506122652.D15395@diamond.ss.org> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 09:50:46AM -0400, David Thornton wrote: > I highly recommend setting up monitoring tools to examine the memory > usage over time. > > http://www.quadratic.net/~david/gnuplot/#Sar_Analysis > > As far as I can tell linux caches disk reads until all memeory is used > (at least iwth this version). Which leaves precious little headroom for > new allocations. > I have yet to understand all of this, despite reading up a bit: This is done to maximize performance. Prefetching pages that might be used in the future (example the next few pages of that document that open office has open) speeds up performance. There are well documented (and I believed well coded) algorithms to do this. Your suggestion of monitoring the problem is right on. Also David's short term answer of adding swap space to figure out how much memory is needed is an important part of the solution. It is my personal belief, but a slow computer still doing its job is a better indicator of the problem than a catastrophic failure. > > http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel/projects/vm/guide/pdf/understand.pdf > > I'm a big ITIL freek, so a reboot crosses me as "incident management" > and really fixing the cause is "problem management". > Reboot is a good short term fix (incident resolution) , but we should be > working toward the long term fix (problem resolution). I agree but when you start seeing out of memory in the logs you're already screwed anyway. > > In our case we had 5 web servers running tomcat. We moved to resin and > the problem went away. > > Java apps are notorius ( in my experiance) with being poorly created. My > experience has been that app delveopers think that because of all the > fancy memory management that java does , they can build apps that use > memeory like it's an unlimited resource. I'm not an software dev guy so > I'm relegated to pooring through code I don't "get" and suggesting that > maybe an sql lookup would be better than a java collection. > This is a different rant, so I will only say I agree. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:18:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:18:27 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506061228.GA3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050506161827.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:12:28AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a > 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of > Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I > believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond > that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? Well here are the ones I know about: Pentium-M: A continuation of the P6 core started in the Pentium Pro, then later P2, P3, and finally the Pentium-M. Mostly used in laptop's as part of the centrino chipset, but also some use in embedded applications. It tends to use about 1/3 or less power than an equivalant Pentium 4. For most tasks it matches a P4 running 50% higher clock speeds. Some companies have started trying to offer desktop motherboards to run this chip. Pentium-4: The go for clock speed design Intel designed when the P3 wouldn't run any faster. Highly optimized for executing integer arithmetic (it can do up to 4 integer instructions per clock cycle), as well as running SSE[23] code. It has a very long pipeline (I believe 31 stages in the latest design), which helps it run it very high clock speeds, but of course it also means a branch prediction miss will seriously hurt performance (which is why the P4 initially looked very bad running code that wasn't explicitly optimized for it). On optimized code that has long linear passes over lots of code, such as video encoding and image manipulation (like photoshop) it runs very well. Celeron: Reduced cache and slower FSB version of the P4 (originally of the P2/P3 but name reused just like Pentium name is). Aimed at budget markets. Athlon-XP: Probably discontinued by now. The last version of the K7 design by AMD, topping out at 3200 rating (2.2GHz). Compared very well with the Pentium-M at similar clock speeds. Uses about half the power of a P4. Duron: Cache size reduced version of Athlon-XP with slower front side bus (FSB). Aimed at competing with Celerons. Athlon-64/Opteron: 64bit chip from AMD with integrated memory controller (which makes memory accesses faster than going through an intermediate memory controller in the chipset). Can run all 32bit software at least as fast as the Athlon-XP, while 64bit software in general runs even faster (there are a few odd ball exceptions where the extra memory accesses needed for the larger pointers outweighs the performance gains). Available as socket 939/940 for dual channel memory controller (940 is for Opteron which requires registered memory used in servers to allow much larger amount of memory), and socket 754 (single channel memory controller). Rating of a socket 754 will be lower than a socket 939 at the same clock speed due to reduced memory bandwidth. In 64bit mode, MMX and the x87 FPU are disabled since they were inefficient terrible designs, and only the new register based FPU of the SSE* instructions are available which provide much better FPU performance than any x87 design ever had (which was stack based). The P4 also doesn't like x87 instructions and prefers SSE instructions for any FPU work. Sempron: Athlon-64 with reduced cache size, and 64bit support turned off. AMD's current budget line to compete with the Celeron line from Intel. Available both as Athlon-XP socket compatible (which were re-branded Durons) and as socket 754 (single memory channel Athlon-64 socket). AMD Geode, VIA Eden, etc: Various low power chips aimed at the embedded systems market. Geode NX is actually an Athlon-XP at reduced voltage and clock rates, but needs a board designed to provide the low voltage to run. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:40:55 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:40:55 -0400 Subject: OT: RT users help In-Reply-To: <200505061421.52780.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>; from jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:21:52PM +0800 References: <200504271642.36919.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050427083823.D4899@diamond.ss.org> <200505061421.52780.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050506124055.E15395@diamond.ss.org> Check that Request.pm is there and functional. Is the stack below from the apache error log or some other log? If its some other log what is in the apache error log. also what is in the access logs. I'm not completely convinced the permissions are right (apache usually wants rwx------) but I'm not sure if that really makes a difference. Bill On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:21:52PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > On Wednesday 27 April 2005 20:38, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > You may have done this but, > > > > 1) Is the file in the place it believes it too be? > > are you talking about .pm file > > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 34132 Nov 7 > 03:34 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm > > > 2) Is apache configured to allow this application to run ( ie is there a > > SetHandler for this in your apache.conf)? > > PerlModule Apache::DBI > PerlRequire /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl > > > RewriteEngine On > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)/$ $1/index.html > AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 > SetHandler perl-script > PerlHandler RT::Mason > > > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root rt 4510 Apr 7 16:07 /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl > > > 3) Is the permissions on the file > > correct (ie is it readable to apache (rwxrwx---) > > > > That's about all I can think of without sitting in front of the box. > > > > Bill > > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 04:42:36PM +0800, JM wrote: > > > Hi ALL, > > > > > > ive tried asking help from RT list but unfortunately no one cares.. : ) > > > > > > anyway.. im getting this error on my apache when ever i try to access RT. > > > [Wed Apr 27 08:39:52 2005] [crit]: Can't call method "FETCH" on an > > > undefined value at > > > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 1032. > > > > > > Stack: > > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:1032] > > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:953] > > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/Request.pm:390] > > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm:176] > > > [/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/Request.pm:353] > > > (/opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl:138) > > > > > > any idea how i can fix this? > > > > > > tia, > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:30:45 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:30:45 -0400 Subject: error on /var/log/messages --> oom problem? In-Reply-To: <200505061127.41152.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061127.41152.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050506163045.GW2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 11:27:41AM +0800, JM wrote: > i got this data from our server killing almost all of our services.. can someone help me here... do i need to upgrade or anything.. > > im using redhat 9 with 2.4.27 SMP Do you use XFS? How much ram and swap in the system? Maybe you just don't have enough memory, or something is leaking memory slowly. What is the uptime of the system? Does top (sorting by memory) show anything uses a large amount of memory? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:32:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:32:11 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506161827.GV2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> <20050506161827.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050506163211.GA3555@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 12:18:27PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:12:28AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > In the old days, we only had to worry about whether we were buying a > > 486 or a 486SuX ("affectionate nickname"). Now there's a whole slew of > > Intel cpus, and AMD is a serious competitor, which doubles the list. I > > believe that the AMD Sempron is equivalant to the Intel Celeron. Beyond > > that, I'm lost. Is there a comparison chart on the web somewhere? > > Well here are the ones I know about: > > Pentium-M: A continuation of the P6 core started in the Pentium Pro, > Pentium-4: The go for clock speed design Intel designed when the P3 > Celeron: Reduced cache and slower FSB version of the P4 (originally of > Athlon-XP: Probably discontinued by now. The last version of the K7 > Duron: Cache size reduced version of Athlon-XP with slower front side > Athlon-64/Opteron: 64bit chip from AMD with integrated memory controller > Sempron: Athlon-64 with reduced cache size, and 64bit support turned > AMD Geode, VIA Eden, etc: Various low power chips aimed at the embedded Arrgh... my head spins. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:33:14 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:33:14 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <427AD480.2080007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050506163314.GX2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is > dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid > unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and > the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column > file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. > > Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to > make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch > this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I > already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. > > Thanks! > > Madison > > PS - I posted this on TPM for anyone subscribed to there but I didn't > get any replies so I am hoping for better luck here. :p I used to get this problem when postgres started enforcing encodings some years ago. I had data that was LATIN1 and the database configured for unicode, which used to work fine as postgresql used to not care. When it started caring, upgrades failed as the dump from the old one wouldn't load in the new one. Switching the database to LATIN1 to match the data solved the problem. You can even set an encoding for a session using a postgresql command and then send it LATIN1 data and it will convert it to unicode for storage automatically. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 16:59:51 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 06 May 2005 12:59:51 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: <20050505195023.Z30773-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050505195023.Z30773@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org writes: > After reading so more of this thread, I'm not sure what exactly you are > asking. I guess that I meant 'any linux _admin_'. The list that I have so far is: Seneca Conestoga - schnick Algonquin - dle, vic (prof there) Mohawk - vic Centennial - colin, peter, bill (says they're starting a full linux programme) UofT - mike (unix environment for programming) Thanks everyone. I think that this is enough to get the info asker off of my back :) Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 17:43:07 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 13:43:07 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <427AD480.2080007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1115401386.5207.4.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Hello, To do this is a portable way, Linux has a command called pathchk which can be used to both verify that a path exists and can verify that the pathname is POSIX-complaint (no strange characters, etc.). You can run this command from Perl with backquotes. For more info on pathchk, buy my book "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" and see pg. 170. Or, slightly cheaper, type "man pathchk". Ken B. On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 22:20, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is > dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid > unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and > the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column > file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. > > Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to > make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch > this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I > already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. > > Thanks! > > Madison > > PS - I posted this on TPM for anyone subscribed to there but I didn't > get any replies so I am hoping for better luck here. :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 17:47:23 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 13:47:23 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <1115401386.5207.4.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <1115401386.5207.4.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1115401643.5207.6.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Sorry. Only good for pathnames, isn't it? :-) KB On Fri, 2005-05-06 at 13:43, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > Hello, > > To do this is a portable way, Linux has a command called pathchk which > can be used to both verify that a path exists and can verify that the > pathname is POSIX-complaint (no strange characters, etc.). You can run > this command from Perl with backquotes. > > For more info on pathchk, buy my book "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" > and see pg. 170. Or, slightly cheaper, type "man pathchk". > > Ken B. > > On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 22:20, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is > > dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid > > unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and > > the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column > > file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. > > > > Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to > > make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch > > this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I > > already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Madison > > > > PS - I posted this on TPM for anyone subscribed to there but I didn't > > get any replies so I am hoping for better luck here. :p > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 18:22:05 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 14:22:05 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <427AEA4D.70303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> <427AEA4D.70303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:53:49PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks for the reply! > > The trick is though that I have several valid unicode file names (ie: > files using Japanese kana/kanji characters). These file names are > accepted just fine and it is important that unicode support remains. If > there is a regex that cought all valid unicodes and wasn't too expensive > that would be great. Are you sure the filenames aren't in shiftjis or something instead? That would be incompatible with unicode for sure. A valid unicode character (well UTF8 at least) is: 0-127 is valid by itself. 110xxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. 1110xxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid 11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid 111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid 1111110x 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. 10xxxxxx by itself is never valid. It must follow a byte indicating how many 10xxxxxx bytes follow. 1111111x is never valid. For example: $ ./validate.pl "`echo -e '12345\337\277 123\375\277\277\200\277\204\377'`" && echo ok || echo fail 2 byte character found. Checking bytes 1 2 6 byte character found. Checking bytes 1 2 3 4 5 6 Invalid character at position 18 fail $ ./validate.pl "`echo -e '12345\337\277 123\375\277\277\200\277\204\277'`" && echo ok || echo fail 2 byte character found. Checking bytes 1 2 6 byte character found. Checking bytes 1 2 3 4 5 6 ok #!/usr/bin/perl -W $currentposition=0; @inputstring=split(//,$ARGV[0]); sub getnextchar() { return '\0' if($currentposition>$#inputstring); return $inputstring[$currentposition++]; } for(;$currentposition<=$#inputstring;) { $value=ord(&getnextchar()); $count=0; next if($value<0x80); die("Invalid character at position $currentposition\n") if($value>=0xFE or $value<0xC0); $count=6 if($value<0xFE); $count=5 if($value<0xFC); $count=4 if($value<0xF8); $count=3 if($value<0xF0); $count=2 if($value<0xE0); print "$count byte character found. Checking bytes 1"; for($i=1;$i<$count;$i++) { $value=ord(&getnextchar()); printf(" %d",1+$i); die("Invalid character at position $currentposition\n") if (($value & 0xC0)!=0x80); } print "\n"; } Minimally tested, but probably works. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 18:23:12 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 14:23:12 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware: Need an AMD PCnet Ethernet card Message-ID: I have a need for an AMD PCnet based ethernet card. (Yes I realize that this is a strange need) Kingston and Linksys both made one that was a pci card. The original was an ISA card. If any of you have one for sale or for barter or for pickup please let me know. Thanks, -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 18:54:26 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 14:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050506182205.GY2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > A valid unicode character (well UTF8 at least) is: > 0-127 is valid by itself. > 110xxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. > 1110xxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > 11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > 111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > 1111110x 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. The modern definition of UTF-8 is actually somewhat narrower, outlawing the last two forms and restricting the earlier ones somewhat. (For example, encoding the character value 15 as 11000000 10001111 is not legal any more -- it can be encoded *only* as 00001111.) See RFC 3629 or the Unicode standard rev 4.0. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:01:42 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:01:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware: Need an AMD PCnet Ethernet card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050506190142.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:23:12PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I have a need for an AMD PCnet based ethernet card. (Yes I realize > that this is a strange need) > > Kingston and Linksys both made one that was a pci card. The original > was an ISA card. > If any of you have one for sale or for barter or for pickup please let me know. We got a PCI version from an AMD rep although it took some work. They haven't made the reference boards for years, and the pcnet pci chip was almost entirely used for onboard networking (often in compaq's). I have also seen it on a dual port copper/fiber card bade by allied telecom or somethin like that (AT2100 and such). It is also what vmware emulates. For the isa version, I have never personally seen one. What reason do you have for wanting that one? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:03:13 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:03:13 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: References: <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050506190313.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:54:26PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Fri, 6 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > A valid unicode character (well UTF8 at least) is: > > 0-127 is valid by itself. > > 110xxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. > > 1110xxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > > 11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > > 111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid > > 1111110x 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx is valid. > > The modern definition of UTF-8 is actually somewhat narrower, outlawing > the last two forms and restricting the earlier ones somewhat. (For > example, encoding the character value 15 as 11000000 10001111 is not > legal any more -- it can be encoded *only* as 00001111.) See RFC 3629 > or the Unicode standard rev 4.0. Well yes, you MUST use the shortest form possible although why anyone would write a parser to NOT accept all possible forms I don't know, since you just write the generator to write shortest form, and parser to parse anything that fits the rules in general. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:05:43 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:05:43 -0400 Subject: Installfests In-Reply-To: <1115236456.24167.169.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 03:54:16PM -0400, interlug-list wrote: > Keep the power and network cords out of the way. Don't let anybody walk > over or trip over cables. Someone might drop power on a machine and > cause a failure (bad) or trip and hurt themselves (worse). Don't leave > the power-bar power switches where they can get kicked to the off > position by accident. And hence no cats permitted near said powerbars. :) It is very puzzling when a well hidden power bar suddenly seems to have moved to the off position while you were working on something and inspection of said powerbar reveals a very puzzles looking cat that doesn't know why all the interesting noises went away with a paw on the switch. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:15:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:15:18 -0400 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re:Semi-OT: Database for "average" users In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1114879232.29842.365.camel@onest8> <1114881393.2542.370.camel@onest8> <4273C041.4000709@rogers.com> <1114882998.2542.378.camel@onest8> <42779737.3090307@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050506191518.GC2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 05:48:02PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > It seems totally erroneous to me to describe MySQL(tm) as "free software." How about the one shipping with debian as mysql-server? It appears to claim to be GPL (with some lgpl and bsd licensed components too). Maybe 4.x is free. Versions 3.22 and earlier were far from free. Not that I actually personally would ever pick mysql over postgresql. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:17:30 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:17:30 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <427AD480.2080007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050506191730.GA10718@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >Hi all, > > I've run into a problem where a bulk postgres "COPY..." statement is >dieing because one of the lines contains a file name with an invalid >unicode character. In nautilus this file has '(invalid encoding)' and >the postgres error is 'CONTEXT: COPY file_info_3, line 228287, column >file_name: "Femme Fatal\uffff.url"'. > > Is there a way in perl (something like 'stat') where I can check to >make sure a file name has valid encoding? If there is than I can catch >this problem before adding it to, and corrupting, my COPY statement? I >already 'quote' the file names first but that didn't catch it. I'm not sure if this will help, but I found this one-liner (reconstruct it using " \\" as the separator): perl -ne 'use bytes;/^(([\x00-\x7f]|[\xc0-\xdf][\x80-\xbf]|[\xe0-\xef] \\ [\x80-\xbf]{2}|[\xf0-\xf7][\x80-\xbf]{3})*)(.*)$/;print "$ARGV:$.:".($ \\ -[3]+1).":$_" if length($3)' I found the above here: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#perl Good luck. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:23:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:23:25 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050506191730.GA10718-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050506191730.GA10718@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050506192325.GD2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 03:17:30PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I'm not sure if this will help, but I found this one-liner (reconstruct > it using " \\" as the separator): > > perl -ne 'use bytes;/^(([\x00-\x7f]|[\xc0-\xdf][\x80-\xbf]|[\xe0-\xef] \\ > [\x80-\xbf]{2}|[\xf0-\xf7][\x80-\xbf]{3})*)(.*)$/;print "$ARGV:$.:".($ \\ > -[3]+1).":$_" if length($3)' > > I found the above here: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#perl Neat, although to be complete it should allow {4} and {5} as well in the matching since UTF-8 does permit that, although I don't think there are any defined charaters in that range yet. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:24:46 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:24:46 -0700 Subject: Installfest - hardware In-Reply-To: <20050506144037.C369D2C365-KZHZ5J/lVGJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506144037.C369D2C365@gprs.fido.ca> Message-ID: <20050506192446.GA24185@unleashed.org> Steve (bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) [050506 07:42]: > If I plan on showing up for the June Installfest, what do I need to bring (other than computer)? Monitor, keyboard, mouse? I'd rather not cart around my 19" CRT if I didn't have to! So what Jo said is correct, just let us know officially when you decide what hardware you would like on site and we will provide it or let you know if we can't. The more warning the better. If you already have Linux on the machine you might want to backup your XF86Config file (usually in /etc or /etc/X11) in case there are problems. We can always set up a generic VESA "should work with any monitor" configuration that you can modify to suit your needs later if X problems are a concern. > For the record, I currently have: Fedora, Novell Desktop, Xandros & MS XP. I'm thinking of installing either Slackware or Debian to replace Novell or Xandros. Let us know what you finally decide on and we'll make sure we have it on hand. Leah -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:34:40 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:34:40 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050506193440.GB3150@waltdnes.org> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 07:58:52AM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote > "Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed > changes to Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to > sue Canadian Citizens." > > This doesn't sound good :-) Has anyone seen any reaction to this from anyone? That does not compute. Monsanto was able to sue the daylights out of a farmer because his next-door neighbour's wheat pollen blew onto the defendant's field. What is so new about US corps being able to sue Canadians? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 19:57:54 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 15:57:54 -0400 Subject: Installfests In-Reply-To: <20050506190543.GB2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 03:54:16PM -0400, interlug-list wrote: > >>Keep the power and network cords out of the way. Don't let anybody walk >>over or trip over cables. Someone might drop power on a machine and >>cause a failure (bad) or trip and hurt themselves (worse). Don't leave >>the power-bar power switches where they can get kicked to the off >>position by accident. > > > And hence no cats permitted near said powerbars. :) It is very puzzling > when a well hidden power bar suddenly seems to have moved to the off > position while you were working on something and inspection of said > powerbar reveals a very puzzles looking cat that doesn't know why all > the interesting noises went away with a paw on the switch. The other day, I found my cat, with his paw on the keyboard, watching intensely as the text gradually scrolled up the screen. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 21:17:01 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 17:17:01 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware: Need an AMD PCnet Ethernet card In-Reply-To: <20050506190142.GZ2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506190142.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I work for vmware.... -Joseph- On 5/6/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 02:23:12PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > I have a need for an AMD PCnet based ethernet card. (Yes I realize > > that this is a strange need) > > > > Kingston and Linksys both made one that was a pci card. The original > > was an ISA card. > > If any of you have one for sale or for barter or for pickup please let me know. > > We got a PCI version from an AMD rep although it took some work. They > haven't made the reference boards for years, and the pcnet pci chip was > almost entirely used for onboard networking (often in compaq's). I have > also seen it on a dual port copper/fiber card bade by allied telecom or > somethin like that (AT2100 and such). > > It is also what vmware emulates. > > For the isa version, I have never personally seen one. > > What reason do you have for wanting that one? > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 21:34:57 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 17:34:57 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware: Need an AMD PCnet Ethernet card In-Reply-To: References: <20050506190142.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050506213457.GE2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 05:17:01PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I work for vmware.... So you are looking for a physical board to compare to the emulation or something? If you really need one you could try a place like this: http://www.inmac.co.uk/catalogue/item/ATNIC047 I have the AT-2700TX here (it is what AMD provided us as a reference board). Old 5V PCI design, but then again most PCI slots are still keyed for 5V on desktop machines so it isn't usually a problem. A google search seems to indicate it is very common for sale in the UK, and almost nowhere else. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 22:14:22 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:14:22 -0700 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <427BCC42.30803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> James Knott (james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) [050506 12:58]: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 03:54:16PM -0400, interlug-list wrote: > > > >>Keep the power and network cords out of the way. Don't let anybody walk > >>over or trip over cables. Someone might drop power on a machine and > >>cause a failure (bad) or trip and hurt themselves (worse). Don't leave > >>the power-bar power switches where they can get kicked to the off > >>position by accident. > > > >And hence no cats permitted near said powerbars. :) It is very puzzling > >when a well hidden power bar suddenly seems to have moved to the off > >position while you were working on something and inspection of said > >powerbar reveals a very puzzles looking cat that doesn't know why all > >the interesting noises went away with a paw on the switch. > > The other day, I found my cat, with his paw on the keyboard, watching > intensely as the text gradually scrolled up the screen. ;-) Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 22:22:24 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:22:24 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20050506193440.GB3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> <20050506193440.GB3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050506182224.7b494de3.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 6 May 2005 15:34:40 -0400 Walter Dnes disseminated the following: > > "Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed > > changes to Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to > > sue Canadian Citizens." > > > > This doesn't sound good :-) Has anyone seen any reaction to this from > > anyone? > > That does not compute. Monsanto was able to sue the daylights out of > a farmer because his next-door neighbour's wheat pollen blew onto the > defendant's field. What is so new about US corps being able to sue > Canadians? Nothing new, just typically pustulant American ignorance and greed, coupled with a similarly typical servile attitude toward our thuggish and belligerent neighbours to the south. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:18:42 up 74 days, 19:28, 8 users, load average: 1.20, 1.26, 1.22 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding." -- John Kenneth Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 22:27:12 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:27:12 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20050506182224.7b494de3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> <20050506193440.GB3150@waltdnes.org> <20050506182224.7b494de3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/6/05, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 6 May 2005 15:34:40 -0400 > Walter Dnes disseminated the following: > > > > "Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed > > > changes to Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to > > > sue Canadian Citizens." > > > > > > This doesn't sound good :-) Has anyone seen any reaction to this from > > > anyone? > > > > That does not compute. Monsanto was able to sue the daylights out of > > a farmer because his next-door neighbour's wheat pollen blew onto the > > defendant's field. What is so new about US corps being able to sue > > Canadians? > > Nothing new, just typically pustulant American ignorance and greed, coupled with > a similarly typical servile attitude toward our thuggish and belligerent > neighbours to the south. I'm getting surprised that nobody has gotten to the point of calling them "evil-minded hillbillies." There was a guy from Carleton that used to incessantly flame Americans on gnu.misc.discuss, and that was his favorite slur. Richard Kulitz, I think it was... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 22:46:01 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:46:01 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20050506193440.GB3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> <20050506193440.GB3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050506184601.057c689a.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 6 May 2005 15:34:40 -0400 Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 07:58:52AM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote > > > "Canadian heritage minister Liza Frulla has recently proposed > > changes to Canadian copyright law that would allow US companies to > > sue Canadian Citizens." > > > > This doesn't sound good :-) Has anyone seen any reaction to this from anyone? > > That does not compute. Monsanto was able to sue the daylights out of > a farmer because his next-door neighbour's wheat pollen blew onto the > defendant's field. What is so new about US corps being able to sue > Canadians? > Nothing new about being able to sue - the deal here is that they're planning to change the copyright laws so as to give them grounds http://www.sysdesign.ca/jem_berkes/canadian_copyright.html Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 23:09:38 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 19:09:38 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? Message-ID: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> So a Windows user comes to our installfest, and gets some version of linux going. What do they do when they run into a problem? Can we offer some sort of support? Maybe not house-calls, but perhaps a combo of a new-user support list and limited phone support for new-users who suddenly find they can't get online. The worst PR for linux is people who've tried linux, and given up because of "trvial" problems *THAT THEY COULD NOT SOLVE*. The reason I mention a new-user mailing list is that this one is too general. And screaming R-T-F-M at newbies is *NOT* the way to go. After using linux a few years, I feel that F T F M (*FIND* The F,,,,,, Manual) is often the hardest part. Things like... - how do you *ADD* a user to a group without removing him from all other groups. In Gentoo linux, the answer id "gpasswd". - PCI modems will *NOT* work under Gentoo as ttyS0..ttyS3. They start at ttyS4. In order for that to work, you must enable support for at least 5 modem slots ("serial ports") in the kernel. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 23:09:58 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 19:09:58 -0400 Subject: Canada to Get Its Own DMCA? In-Reply-To: References: <20050504075852.6bd22527.rob@cheapersafer.com> <20050506193440.GB3150@waltdnes.org> <20050506182224.7b494de3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050506190958.07cd63ca.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 6 May 2005 18:27:12 -0400 Christopher Browne disseminated the following: > > Nothing new, just typically pustulant American ignorance and greed, coupled > > with a similarly typical servile attitude toward our thuggish and > > belligerent neighbours to the south. > > I'm getting surprised that nobody has gotten to the point of calling > them "evil-minded hillbillies." I was getting to that one... ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 19:09:34 up 74 days, 20:19, 8 users, load average: 0.22, 0.07, 0.23 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist." -- Archbishop Helder Camara -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 23:20:24 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 19:20:24 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! Message-ID: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working and the guy hangs on me. Messages are: eth0: network connection up using port A speed: 100 autonegotiation: yes duplex mode: full flowctrl: symmetric irq moderation: disabled scatter-gather: enabled tx-checksum: enabled rx-checksum: enabled rx-polling: enabled eth0: no IPv6 routers present What is this last line? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 6 23:39:05 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 19:39:05 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505061920.24143.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: eth0 no ipv6 routers present: There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak Internet Protocal Version 6. Don't worry about it. What problem are you having with your switch? -Joseph- On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working and the guy > hangs on me. > > Messages are: > > eth0: network connection up using port A > speed: 100 > autonegotiation: yes > duplex mode: full > flowctrl: symmetric > irq moderation: disabled > scatter-gather: enabled > tx-checksum: enabled > rx-checksum: enabled > rx-polling: enabled > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > What is this last line? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 03:48:18 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 23:48:18 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <20050506230937.GC3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050507034818.GA12103@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 07:09:38PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > So a Windows user comes to our installfest, and gets some version of >linux going. What do they do when they run into a problem? Can we >offer some sort of support? Maybe not house-calls, but perhaps a combo >of a new-user support list and limited phone support for new-users who >suddenly find they can't get online. The worst PR for linux is people >who've tried linux, and given up because of "trvial" problems *THAT THEY >COULD NOT SOLVE*. A very good point - I have gotten as far as I have by having a couple of people (at least one on this list) to turn to when stuff got weird. I have also gotten myself in and out of trouble a lot over the past few years, but I was freer to experiment when I had a means of bailing myself out. I think what I am suggesting is mentorship - a gateway guru to get you going, or to help you figure out how to bootstrap to low-noise lists or groups. I am hoping to come out to the installfest, but I use Debian, so I haven't installed a system in 2+ years :-) I just figure I might be of some use, can drag a laptop around and show the flag, etc. Whether I make it out to the 'fest or not, I hereby offer my services as mentor/"available guru" to two or three new users while they are working through the growing pains. I figure it's the least I can do to give back to community that gave (who are we kidding, gives) me so much help. More than two or three could get overwhelming in a hurry for the first little while, but once people know more they become better information-seekers, so demand drops. If I help two friends, and they help two friends... -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 04:34:40 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 00:34:40 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <20050506230937.GC3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > So a Windows user comes to our installfest, and gets some version of >linux going. What do they do when they run into a problem? > This is THE question ! Even if the install goes flawlessly (unlikely) a fresh n00b is going to run into things they don't understand; things that (if they have nowhere to turn) will make them crazy ! > Can we >offer some sort of support? > If we can't, we're not doing them any favours ! > Maybe not house-calls, but perhaps a combo >of a new-user support list and limited phone support for new-users who >suddenly find they can't get online. > We MUST be able to offer them several options; 1) FTFM - a new users guide (pamphlet ?) that explains, how to use man pages/ info, gives links to websites with beginner help. 2) community - directions to mailing lists, lugs and helpful volunteers. 3) real live support network - a reasonably priced (not free) option to get the answers you need NOW. > The worst PR for linux is people >who've tried linux, and given up because of "trvial" problems *THAT THEY >COULD NOT SOLVE*. > > .. with no one to turn to, and all their M$xperts shrugging and shaking their heads. > other groups. In Gentoo linux, the answer id "gpasswd". >[snip] > - PCI modems will *NOT* work under Gentoo as ttyS0..ttyS3. > Thats why we're not going to recommend Gentoo for n00bs, right ;-) ? These are important questions, and if unanswered, suggest to me that we might be hasty, in reformatting their hard drives, and kicking them out of the nest. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 04:44:13 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 00:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050506190313.GA2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506190313.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well yes, you MUST use the shortest form possible although why anyone > would write a parser to NOT accept all possible forms I don't know... There are people who want to be able to do security checks by examining the UTF-8 encoding, and hence are deeply averse to multiple encodings of the same character. This is a large part of why the non-shortest encodings are now officially invalid. I don't say I think this was a good idea, mind you, but there's a significant user community which does want to at least have the option of rejecting such forms. The "surrogates" area of Unicode is also not allowed to show up in UTF-8, since it's used only in the UTF-16 encoding, and you are not supposed to nest encodings. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 05:32:30 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 01:32:30 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050506190313.GA2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050506190313.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/6/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well yes, you MUST use the shortest form possible although why anyone > would write a parser to NOT accept all possible forms I don't know, > since you just write the generator to write shortest form, and parser to > parse anything that fits the rules in general. Aside from the security issues already mentioned there's also the issue of alphabetising characters. It's much harder to write an efficient sorting algorithm if there are identical characters of very different bit widths. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 07:23:39 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 03:23:39 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> On Friday 06 May 2005 19:39, Joseph Kubik wrote: > eth0 no ipv6 routers present: > There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak Internet > Protocal Version 6. > > Don't worry about it. > > What problem are you having with your switch? > -Joseph- Hi Joseph I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private LAN where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a replacement for a 10Mbps I had. When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder if the switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the problem? I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a hard understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards quickly any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they don't support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device is not working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy just cut the line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just a guess). > > On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working and > > the guy hangs on me. > > > > Messages are: > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > speed: 100 > > autonegotiation: yes > > duplex mode: full > > flowctrl: symmetric > > irq moderation: disabled > > scatter-gather: enabled > > tx-checksum: enabled > > rx-checksum: enabled > > rx-polling: enabled > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > What is this last line? > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 14:22:58 2005 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 07:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. Please help! Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 14:42:20 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 10:42:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Re:Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050507142258.38777.qmail-YNRCQF/y8RGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427CD3CC.8030605@alteeve.com> Frank Peng wrote: > I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file > and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned > http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! > > Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and > opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. > > Please help! > > Thanks. Install Linux? Being a Linux group we might be a little better able to help if the problem persists after Linux is running. :p In the meantime, go to http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/ and download Search and Destroy, update it and run it. If that doesn't work I think they have a forum where you might find people more... equiped... to help you. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 14:56:11 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:56:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Re:Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <427CD3CC.8030605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> <427CD3CC.8030605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050507105611.6d1cddf5.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Sat, 07 May 2005 10:42:20 -0400 Madison Kelly wrote: > Frank Peng wrote: > > I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file > > and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned > > http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! > > > > Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and > > opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. > > > > Please help! > > > > Thanks. > > Install Linux? Being a Linux group we might be a little better able to > help if the problem persists after Linux is running. :p > > In the meantime, go to http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/ and > download Search and Destroy, update it and run it. If that doesn't work > I think they have a forum where you might find people more... equiped... > to help you. That'll work. Here are a couple of other things you can do, if you decide to stay with that other operating system Install Firefox and don't use IE Get a LiveCD, here's a good list of them http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php and keep one on hand for next time you get hit. At least you can boot with it and get at your hard drive. I use Berry linux personally, but there are a number that are designed for rescue and antivirus/spyware work. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 15:43:19 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:43:19 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050507142258.38777.qmail-YNRCQF/y8RGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 May 2005, Frank Peng wrote: > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 07:22:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Frank Peng > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. > > I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file > and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned > http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! > > Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and > opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. What has this got to do with tlug ? If you do not have an antivirus/antispyware product then ask for help at your friendly neighbourhoos computer shop. And if whatever posted this message is the bug itself, then congrats to the bug, it has good social engineering. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 16:11:16 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 12:11:16 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505070323.40518.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: What model netgear? The netgear is only looking at ethernet frames, not the ip packets. (we hope) What model ethernet cards are they? eth-cpu1 -------------+ | switch | port 1 2 3 4 | eth-cpu2 ----------+ In light of my pretty little picture, what ports are etach cpu plugged into? what color are the lights on each side of each port? what are the IP's of the two cards that can't talk? oh, and netmasks. And, what is the error you are getting? -Joseph- On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > On Friday 06 May 2005 19:39, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > eth0 no ipv6 routers present: > > There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak Internet > > Protocal Version 6. > > > > Don't worry about it. > > > > What problem are you having with your switch? > > -Joseph- > > Hi Joseph > > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private LAN > where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a replacement for a > 10Mbps I had. > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder if the > switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the problem? > > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a hard > understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards quickly > any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they don't > support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device is not > working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy just cut the > line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just a guess). > > > > > On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working and > > > the guy hangs on me. > > > > > > Messages are: > > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > speed: 100 > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > duplex mode: full > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > > > What is this last line? > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 16:42:43 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 12:42:43 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505070323.40518.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <1115484163.26076.2.camel@localhost> Hi, Bring the switch to next installfest and we'll look at it. pavel re: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/Installfests:2005-06 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 16:42:34 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 12:42:34 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <427C4560.6020705-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1115484154.3513.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-05-07 at 00:34 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > We MUST be able to offer them several options; > > 1) FTFM - a new users guide (pamphlet ?) that explains, how to use man > pages/ info, gives links to websites with beginner help. I would suggest also commands and functions for accessing hardware. As a relative newbie (how many years can I say that? LOL), hardware has been my main dilemma. Here's a few suggestions, from my own experiences: 1) How to mount different partitions (with necessary permissions). Both manually and automatically at boot (fstab). 2) How to access DVD-RW's to burn DVD's. 3) Mounting flash card readers (CF, SD, etc). 4) Synchronizing a Palm to Evolution (just figured that one out myself - thanks to info on the net). If nothing more, at least a list of URL's to specific answers (providing they at least have their internet connection working!). -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 17:16:01 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 13:16:01 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <1115484154.3513.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <1115484154.3513.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I think that we are getting seriously carried away here. An install fest is a time and place to help people get their computer running Linux. While there, we should make sure that the apps they know they need work the way they should. This includes email. Once someone is home their computer should continue to work at those tasks. If someone cannot then manage to solve some problem, then there is an email address (presently tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) that they can ask a user community for help on. If the email help is insufficient, then the list is a good place to arrange to have someone come by and help. If we think that we should provide a "quick guide" for new linux users, the GTAlug website is a great place to host it. (hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge). We could even create a whole section on getting started, with links and such. Don't print things on dead trees, one more piece of paper is just more trash. If someone is happier looking at paper, let them print it themselves. Please don't start another email list. We don't need a bunch of people that don't know what they are doing giving and getting bad information. Cheers, -Joseph- On 5/7/05, Steve wrote: > On Sat, 2005-05-07 at 00:34 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > We MUST be able to offer them several options; > > > > 1) FTFM - a new users guide (pamphlet ?) that explains, how to use man > > pages/ info, gives links to websites with beginner help. > > I would suggest also commands and functions for accessing hardware. As a > relative newbie (how many years can I say that? LOL), hardware has been > my main dilemma. Here's a few suggestions, from my own experiences: > > 1) How to mount different partitions (with necessary permissions). Both > manually and automatically at boot (fstab). > > 2) How to access DVD-RW's to burn DVD's. > > 3) Mounting flash card readers (CF, SD, etc). > > 4) Synchronizing a Palm to Evolution (just figured that one out myself - > thanks to info on the net). > > If nothing more, at least a list of URL's to specific answers (providing > they at least have their internet connection working!). > > -Steve. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 17:32:41 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 13:32:41 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <1115484154.3513.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050507173241.GB25916@sophocles> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 01:16:01PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > If we think that we should provide a "quick guide" for new linux > users, the GTAlug website is a great place to host it. (hint hint, > wink wink, nudge nudge). > We could even create a whole section on getting started, with links and such. > Don't print things on dead trees, one more piece of paper is just more > trash. If someone is happier looking at paper, let them print it > themselves. Once upon a time, there was a page with links: Now, that old page is rife with dead links. Anyone need documentation about getting XFree86 3.3.1 working? ;-) -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 17:33:29 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 13:33:29 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <20050506230937.GC3150-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1115487209.26073.29.camel@localhost> ? ???, 06/05/2005 ? 19:09 -0400, Walter Dnes ?????: > So a Windows user comes to our installfest, and gets some version of > linux going. What do they do when they run into a problem? Can we > offer some sort of support? Maybe not house-calls, but perhaps a combo > of a new-user support list and limited phone support for new-users who > suddenly find they can't get online. The worst PR for linux is people > who've tried linux, and given up because of "trvial" problems *THAT THEY > COULD NOT SOLVE*. Whoopeee, people shall not buy MGB if they just attend soccer practice and go get groceries at the end of the weekend. Ubuntu helps quite a bit with this but there still things only a tech can do. New users that use computer as appliance shall not install any other distro, except the one that boots into gui and just does everthing. *Have you ever worked for TECH support* ? We can't cater to some classes of people period, that what commercial companies are for. We are here to have fun, and exchange ideas between those who are willing to learn, not educate people about those who are still looking for a power button. Not to be condescending , but linux isn't for those people. Those people need to get a Mac, simple as that .. for now. > The reason I mention a new-user mailing list is that this one is too > general. And screaming R-T-F-M at newbies is *NOT* the way to go. > After using linux a few years, I feel that F T F M (*FIND* The F,,,,,, > Manual) is often the hardest part. Things like... Read The FINE Manuals, as there is astounding number of them on the net. What is the last time you have cleaned/replace fuel filter on your car. How doing transmission fluid flush? Needless to say, those who come with open mind and brood over countless documentations and have capacity to integrate new knowlege, those are welcome. > - how do you *ADD* a user to a group without removing him from all > other groups. In Gentoo linux, the answer id "gpasswd". > > - PCI modems will *NOT* work under Gentoo as ttyS0..ttyS3. They start > at ttyS4. In order for that to work, you must enable support for at > least 5 modem slots ("serial ports") in the kernel. Gentoo linux is far from beginner level, it is sort of ongoing developmental system. There are no binary packages. While freeBSD folks enjoy low stream of incoming changes to live packages, gentoo doesn't. Binary is the way for newbie to go. Even though later they are most likely to switch to gentoo for their "growing" up experience. FreeBSD being more stable in way it is working, it does still require more WANG to manage it. I think there are classes of uses, we can't really cater to housewife kine that types a recipes on her computer and makes scheduling for grocery runs in her outlook. Those people usually have to buck down and learn a bit more or pay for support. That being said, that the list is willing to help. Skill level required in most people though, even to lay out a problem such way that we can understand it from other side of the mailing list is higher then average person would fathom. But we are here ;-) Anyway, one proposition is for installation of sudo account for those truly requiring the help. Then real helping these people would be only ssh call away. I realized there are quire a few problems with this , but world isn't perfect right? I think I have solution ... I'll be back in few days with bit of code... :D heheh. Eevil!!! Can we access the TLUG member's computer? Shall we have the user sign waiver, about help? Scotty out, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 19:21:34 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:21:34 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505071521.34637.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On May 5, 2005 06:13 pm, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. Sheridan has some classes on Linux, see http://capella.sheridanc.on.ca:9085/coutline/coutlineview.jsp?appver=ps&subjectCode=SYST&courseCode=13416&version=1.0&sec=0&reload=true -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 23:09:41 2005 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 16:09:41 -0700 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? In-Reply-To: <200505071521.34637.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200505071521.34637.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <427D4AB5.2070408@iprimus.ca> Fraser Campbell wrote: >On May 5, 2005 06:13 pm, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > >>I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach >>_any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) >> >>So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know >>of. >> >> > >Sheridan has some classes on Linux, see >http://capella.sheridanc.on.ca:9085/coutline/coutlineview.jsp?appver=ps&subjectCode=SYST&courseCode=13416&version=1.0&sec=0&reload=true > > > Back in 2001/2002, I did an 8 course Unix Sysadmin program at Centennial College at the Shorting campus. We used mostly Redhat 8 and to a lesser extent Solaris 9 and ummm .. SCO Unix 5. Most of the work was done on the Redhat platform which our teachers said that the college considered to be Unix. -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: (416)-421-2480 Cell: (416)-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 20:34:57 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:34:57 -0400 Subject: Comparison chart of Intel/AMD cpus? In-Reply-To: <20050506161827.GV2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506061228.GA3150@waltdnes.org> <20050506161827.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050507203457.GA14293@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 12:18:27PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > Well here are the ones I know about: [...big snip...] Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 20:36:07 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:36:07 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <1115484163.26076.2.camel@localhost> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <1115484163.26076.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200505071636.07862.marc@lijour.net> On Saturday 07 May 2005 12:42, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > Bring the switch to next installfest and we'll look at it. > pavel > > re: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/Installfests:2005-06 Thanks I did send a request. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 20:39:11 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:39:11 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <427C4560.6020705-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 12:34:40AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote > Walter Dnes wrote: > > > So a Windows user comes to our installfest, and gets some version of > >linux going. What do they do when they run into a problem? > > > This is THE question ! Even if the install goes flawlessly (unlikely) a > fresh n00b is going to run into things they don't understand; things > that (if they have nowhere to turn) will make them crazy ! One problem that I can see immediately is X configuration. Unless they bring their 19" CRT to the install-fest, or have a model identical to one at the fest, the safest we can do is give them a VGA display-config. Then someone would have to finish it off at home. LCD monitors suck at interpolated resolutions which aren't whole-number fractions of their native resolution. A native 1600 X 1200 would be great at 800 X 600 or 400 X 300. A native 1280 X 1024 would be great at 640 X 512 or 320 X 256. A native 1024 X 768 would be great at 512 X 384. Any other setting looks crummy. There are sites on the web that will generate the appropriate modelines for you, assuming of course that you know which model of monitor you have, and what its horizontal and vertical frequency ranges are. That is one item I would much rather configure in person than try to talk a linux-newbie through over the phone. > > other groups. In Gentoo linux, the answer id "gpasswd". > >[snip] > > - PCI modems will *NOT* work under Gentoo as ttyS0..ttyS3. > > > Thats why we're not going to recommend Gentoo for n00bs, right ;-) ? And what is the Debian or Suse equivalant of gpasswd? As for PCI modems, I've tried various linux distros. In some, my PCI modem worked, in others it didn't. It wasn't until I started mucking around in Gentoo that I found out *WHY*, and how to solve the problem. The main problem with Gentoo is that a really optimal install can't be done in 2 hours. I've puttered around a couple of days in my latest install on my second machine. Mind you, I've been experimenting, "screwing around" might be a more appropriate description. Once the initial grunt work is done, it's simple to maintain. Once a week... emerge --sync emerge --update --deep --ask --world Unless there's a security alert, you do not need to update kernels every time a new .01 version comes out. Non-experimental packages are easy to add. What's the Suse or Fedora or Debian equivalant of saying "emerge mplayer"? How many people with Suse or Fedora or Debian have managed to get mplayer running? Dependancy dll-hell doesn't exist on Gentoo. I install a basic stripped-down text console only setup. The command "emerge gimp" calculates dependancies and builds 31 packages. After that, I configure X, and I have a working X and gimp. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 20:58:56 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:58:56 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200505071658.56612.marc@lijour.net> On Saturday 07 May 2005 12:11, Joseph Kubik wrote: > What model netgear? It is a NetGEAR FS608v2. > The netgear is only looking at ethernet frames, not the ip packets. (we > hope) > > What model ethernet cards are they? I run amd64 with a K8VSE motherboard. The eth card is integrated. This is what I get from the logs (with the current working switch installed-not the NetGear one) : May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: Yukon Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T Adapter May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: PrefPort:A RlmtMode:Check Link State May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: $Rev: 1224 $ Ben Collins May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: eth1: IEEE-1394 IPv4 over 1394 Ethernet (fw-host0) May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 17 May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: network connection up using port A May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: speed: 10 May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: autonegotiation: yes May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: duplex mode: half May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: flowctrl: none May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: irq moderation: disabled May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: scatter-gather: enabled May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: tx-checksum: enabled May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-checksum: enabled May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-polling: enabled On the other end, the router has a eepro100 based card. If the thing is based on ethernet frames as it probably should. You should not need IP and netmask. A question. Is there some incompatibility issues with IPv6 and standard switches? Both my cards have IPv6 (+ a std IP). And if you look at the log below my ethernet card complains it does not find an IPv6 router. eth-cpu1 ------------+ (link ok for my router) switch | port 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | | eth-cpu2 ---------------+ | (link ok for my amd64 Desktop) eth-cpu2 -----------------+ (Windows does not show the link) (When I say link shows, it means green light, and sometimes quick flashing seems -for me- to indicate the switch tries to do something). From the NetGEAR switch documentation the port are auto-sensing. But I use all straight cables. I use this NetGEAR in REPLACEMENT of another switch which WORKS perfectly. Also, that is worth noting, the windows box does not show the link with the NetGEAR switch but it does with the current switch. That's puzzling for me! > In light of my pretty little picture, what ports are etach cpu plugged > into? what color are the lights on each side of each port? > what are the IP's of the two cards that can't talk? oh, and netmasks. > > And, what is the error you are getting? When I plug the NetGEAR switch in lieu and place of the current one while the setup is working, I get no connection. When I restart the network service I get errors. See the log below. My Desktop says this when I restart the connection: > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > speed: 100 > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present And the router fails to start the connection on its end when I restart the network service.. > -Joseph- > > On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On Friday 06 May 2005 19:39, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > eth0 no ipv6 routers present: > > > There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak Internet > > > Protocal Version 6. > > > > > > Don't worry about it. > > > > > > What problem are you having with your switch? > > > -Joseph- > > > > Hi Joseph > > > > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private > > LAN where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a > > replacement for a 10Mbps I had. > > > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder > > if the switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the > > problem? > > > > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a > > hard understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards > > quickly any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they > > don't support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device > > is not working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy > > just cut the line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just > > a guess). > > > > > On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working > > > > and the guy hangs on me. > > > > > > > > Messages are: > > > > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > speed: 100 > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > > > > > What is this last line? > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 7 22:18:27 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 18:18:27 -0400 Subject: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427D3EB3.1000905@golden.net> Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 May 2005, Frank Peng wrote: > >> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 07:22:58 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Frank Peng >> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: [TLUG]: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. >> >> I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file >> and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned >> http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! >> >> Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and >> opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. > > > What has this got to do with tlug ? If you do not have an > antivirus/antispyware product then ask for help at your friendly > neighbourhoos computer shop. And if whatever posted this message is > the bug itself, then congrats to the bug, it has good social engineering. > > Peter > -- Frank is a Slack Linux guy. Perhaps the way he asked is not exactly the best way to ask for help however he's one of us. Sorry Frank can't help you here. Is this another reason to disable active X ? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 00:49:38 2005 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I killed http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050508004939.29021.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> I am sorry for I bothered everybody. I would poste the experience so that it could help someone else. 1, Use safe mode to restart Windows. Delete all Web Browse off-line files and cookies. 2, Open regedit and find hot_key_local_machine/microsoft/windows/current version/run and delete all keys in it and delete some files ended with EXE shown in the keys. 3, restart Windows as usual, run norton anti-virus utilities. and run ad-aware to clean up the dead bugs. I deleted 8 virus and tons of web spams. 4. restart Windows again. Thanks again. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 00:57:58 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 20:57:58 -0400 Subject: I killed http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050508004939.29021.qmail-w3ZKjPtRs+CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050508004939.29021.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427D6416.30805@alteeve.com> Frank Peng wrote: > I am sorry for I bothered everybody. > > I would poste the experience so that it could help > someone else. > > 1, Use safe mode to restart Windows. > Delete all Web Browse off-line files and cookies. > 2, Open regedit and find > hot_key_local_machine/microsoft/windows/current > version/run and delete all keys in it and delete some > files ended with EXE shown in the keys. > 3, restart Windows as usual, run norton anti-virus > utilities. and run ad-aware to clean up the dead bugs. > I deleted 8 virus and tons of web spams. > 4. restart Windows again. > > Thanks again. So far as I am concerned, no bother (a little off-topic though but hey. :p ) I'm glad you solved your problem! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 02:22:16 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 22:22:16 -0400 Subject: (patch for Bash) more ${var|...} expansions Message-ID: <20050508022216.GA7662@node1.opengeometry.net> Here are few parameter expansions that I added to ${var|...} notation: ${var|.strip} Strip leading/trailing whitespaces, and collapse consecutive whitespaces into one space. Same as `echo $var`. ${var|.upper} ${var|.lower} ${var|.swapcase} Convert to uppercase or lowercase, or toggle the case. ${var|.capitalize} Convert the first char to uppercase, and the rest to lowercase. ${var|.rev} Flip strings, like rev(1). Idea for the above came from Python string methods. So, you can do a='abC 123' echo "${a|.strip}" --> 'abC 123' echo "${a|.upper}" --> 'ABC 123' echo "${a|.lower}" --> 'abc 123' echo "${a|.swapcase}" --> 'ABc 123' echo "${a|.capitalize}" --> 'Abc 123' echo "${a|.rev}" --> '321 Cba' Also, added ${var|-regex} Remove all matching 'regex' pattern. Comparable to ${var//glob}. ${var|+regex} Return only the matching 'regex' pattern. So, you can delete or extract 'regex' from string, ie. a='abC 123' echo "${a|-[a-z]}" --> 'C 123' echo "${a|+[a-z]}" --> 'ab' Ref: http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#bash Enjoy... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 03:10:20 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 23:10:20 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... Message-ID: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> Tlug, I have an old linux game I can't get working. I've installed and patched but it won't run. This is the only clue I have: BUG! (Segmentation Fault) Going down hard... Railroad Tycoon II 1.54c Built with glibc-2.1 on x86 Stack dump: { 0x818783e 0x8166ac4 0x816692b 0x816080d 0x816098e 0x81578f1 0x814fec9 0x814ffa8 0x8048373 0x820037d 0x8048111 } I'm trying to run it on Fedora Core 3 and my glibc is 2.3.5-0.fc3.1. I also have installed the nvidia driver which required commenting out load "dri" in xorg.conf if that means anything. Google has not been my friend with this. I haven't tried to install this game since RH9. Pre Thanks, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 03:31:47 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 23:31:47 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505071658.56612.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <200505071658.56612.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: 1. what are the IP addresses of the 3 computers? 2. Can you ping from one computer to any other? -Joseph- On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > On Saturday 07 May 2005 12:11, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > What model netgear? > It is a NetGEAR FS608v2. > > > The netgear is only looking at ethernet frames, not the ip packets. (we > > hope) > > > > What model ethernet cards are they? > > I run amd64 with a K8VSE motherboard. The eth card is integrated. > This is what I get from the logs (with the current working switch > installed-not the NetGear one) : > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: Yukon Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T > Adapter > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: PrefPort:A RlmtMode:Check Link State > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: $Rev: 1224 $ Ben Collins > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: eth1: IEEE-1394 IPv4 over 1394 Ethernet > (fw-host0) > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 17 > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: network connection up using port A > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: speed: 10 > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: autonegotiation: yes > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: duplex mode: half > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: flowctrl: none > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: irq moderation: disabled > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: scatter-gather: enabled > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: tx-checksum: enabled > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-checksum: enabled > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-polling: enabled > > On the other end, the router has a eepro100 based card. > > If the thing is based on ethernet frames as it probably should. You should not > need IP and netmask. > > A question. > Is there some incompatibility issues with IPv6 and standard switches? > Both my cards have IPv6 (+ a std IP). And if you look at the log below my > ethernet card complains it does not find an IPv6 router. > > eth-cpu1 ------------+ (link ok for my router) > switch | > port 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > | | > eth-cpu2 ---------------+ | (link ok for my amd64 Desktop) > eth-cpu2 -----------------+ (Windows does not show the link) > > (When I say link shows, it means green light, and sometimes quick flashing > seems -for me- to indicate the switch tries to do something). > > From the NetGEAR switch documentation the port are auto-sensing. But I use all > straight cables. > I use this NetGEAR in REPLACEMENT of another switch which WORKS perfectly. > > Also, that is worth noting, the windows box does not show the link with the > NetGEAR switch but it does with the current switch. That's puzzling for me! > > > In light of my pretty little picture, what ports are etach cpu plugged > > into? what color are the lights on each side of each port? > > what are the IP's of the two cards that can't talk? oh, and netmasks. > > > > And, what is the error you are getting? > > When I plug the NetGEAR switch in lieu and place of the current one while the > setup is working, I get no connection. When I restart the network service I > get errors. > > See the log below. > My Desktop says this when I restart the connection: > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > > speed: 100 > > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > And the router fails to start the connection on its end when I restart the > network service.. > > > -Joseph- > > > > On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > On Friday 06 May 2005 19:39, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > > eth0 no ipv6 routers present: > > > > There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak Internet > > > > Protocal Version 6. > > > > > > > > Don't worry about it. > > > > > > > > What problem are you having with your switch? > > > > -Joseph- > > > > > > Hi Joseph > > > > > > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private > > > LAN where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a > > > replacement for a 10Mbps I had. > > > > > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > > > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder > > > if the switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the > > > problem? > > > > > > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a > > > hard understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards > > > quickly any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they > > > don't support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device > > > is not working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy > > > just cut the line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just > > > a guess). > > > > > > > On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not working > > > > > and the guy hangs on me. > > > > > > > > > > Messages are: > > > > > > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > > speed: 100 > > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > > > > > > > What is this last line? > > > > > -- > > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 04:24:34 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 00:24:34 -0400 Subject: I killed http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050508004939.29021.qmail-w3ZKjPtRs+CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050508004939.29021.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050508002434.tnxrp245i1w0oso8@webmail.almatau.com> Quoting Frank Peng : > I am sorry for I bothered everybody. > > I would poste the experience so that it could help > someone else. What are you talking about? Usual/unusual restarts? Tons of viruses? What is EXE? What is it all about? Iguess you just need to wipe your hard drive out and install Linux. That experience would be really useful and interesting. > > 1, Use safe mode to restart Windows. > Delete all Web Browse off-line files and cookies. > 2, Open regedit and find > hot_key_local_machine/microsoft/windows/current > version/run and delete all keys in it and delete some > files ended with EXE shown in the keys. > 3, restart Windows as usual, run norton anti-virus > utilities. and run ad-aware to clean up the dead bugs. > I deleted 8 virus and tons of web spams. > 4. restart Windows again. > > Thanks again. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 06:26:42 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 02:26:42 -0400 Subject: installfest support Message-ID: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I would like to be able to offer new users; 1) a sign-up sheet that a) briefly describes what might happen to their computer b) gathers contact information c) gathers a hardware profile d) gathers computer usage profile (including dual-boot preference) e) has a liability waiver f) is signed 2) a new linux user pamphlet that features a) an explanation of "what is the command line, how do I find it and why should I care ?" b) an introduction to "man" and "info" c) summarized essential commands d) links to linux basics on the web e) links to helpful sites specific to their freshly installed distro (ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog) f) directions to mailing list/ IRC/ LUG/ community help Yes, I know, #s 1 and 2 are to be delivered in the "dead tree" medium, but if they are printed out only as required, on recycled paper, 2 sided, and /incredibly/ tiny ;-) the environmental impact should be minimal. I can hug trees with the best of 'em ! It has been my (recent) experience that the new linux (or indeed new computer) user is easily disoriented, and may not be able to remember how to get to the items on #2. 3) (and this bears a lot of further discussion) access to prompt, paid, professional help. This list is thick with gurus, many of whom have expressed a desire to receive money in exchange for expertise. None of will be buying sailboats with Open Source software sales, any time soon, but service and support might put a Pontiac on the parking pad. How might this happen ? house calls ? phone ? IRC ? priority email ? And how much $$$ ? I have several ideas, how 'bout you ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 06:33:38 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 02:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <427D831C.1020907-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 May 2005, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I'm trying to run it on Fedora Core 3 and my glibc is 2.3.5-0.fc3.1. I also > have installed the nvidia driver which required commenting out load "dri" in > xorg.conf if that means anything. Google has not been my friend with this. I > haven't tried to install this game since RH9. Do an ldd and report the results. My gut feeling is a lib version which is reporting as acceptable but in fact isn't quite what the app is expecting. If this is true then $LD_PRELOAD is your friend. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 07:36:45 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 10:36:45 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <427D831C.1020907-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> Message-ID: recompile the game with -g and run it under gdb using 'gdb game' then in gdb 'set args ...' (whatever you would give as args on the command line), and 'run'. The program will stop with a SIGSEGV at or near where the problem occured. This will tell you where to look. good luck, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 11:25:22 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 07:25:22 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427DB122.8040106-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508112522.GC25916@sophocles> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 02:26:42AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I > would like to be able to offer new users; > > 1) a sign-up sheet that > a) briefly describes what might happen to their computer > b) gathers contact information > c) gathers a hardware profile > d) gathers computer usage profile (including dual-boot preference) > e) has a liability waiver > f) is signed A modified version of the "GNU/Linux pre-installation checklist" (TLDP has an older version of it) as part of it (covers b,c,d (for some values of gathering) in its present form)? > 2) a new linux user pamphlet that features > a) an explanation of "what is the command line, how do I find it and > why should I care ?" > b) an introduction to "man" and "info" > c) summarized essential commands > d) links to linux basics on the web > e) links to helpful sites specific to their freshly installed distro > (ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog) > f) directions to mailing list/ IRC/ LUG/ community help Unless we only do one distro, it looks like there'll have to be multiple versions of the pamphlet. Or there could be a general "What is linux" with the general stuff and a "$DISTRO basics" pamphlet for each of the distros on tap that includes the distro-specific info and commands. > Yes, I know, #s 1 and 2 are to be delivered in the "dead tree" medium, > but if they are printed out only as required, on recycled paper, 2 > sided, and /incredibly/ tiny ;-) the environmental impact should be > minimal. I can hug trees with the best of 'em ! It has been my (recent) > experience that the new linux (or indeed new computer) user is easily > disoriented, and may not be able to remember how to get to the items on #2. I think they should also be available in advance, online. This way, if someone is interested, they can read up a bit and start preparing their system information before they arrive. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 12:43:48 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 08:43:48 -0400 Subject: Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050507142258.38777.qmail-YNRCQF/y8RGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427E0984.7000902@rogers.com> Frank Peng wrote: > I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file > and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned > http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! > > Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and > opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. > > Please help! > > Thanks. Which version of Linux are you running? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 13:01:59 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 08:01:59 -0500 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427DB122.8040106-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > 1) a sign-up sheet that > c) gathers a hardware profile Is there a liveboot distro that focuses on information gathering? I can easily see a lot of users just not knowing enough of their own distro. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 13:11:25 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 08:11:25 -0500 Subject: [NTL] chmod 777 /windows not enough? In-Reply-To: References: <427DF7C3.5020503@shinypinemusic.com> Message-ID: Ok.. so what *is* this /windows. Is it a directory or symbolic link? We must be missing something somehow. If your /windows is hda2, let's try this: su cd /home/chris mkdir ./mnt/ chown chris ./mnt/ mount /dev/hda2 ./mnt/ exit cd ~ touch ./testfile.tmp cp ./testfile.tmp ./mnt/ rm ./mnt/testfile.tmp On 5/8/05, Chris Aitken wrote: > I copy files from my linux partition into /windows, which shows up in > the dual-boot Windows 98 as D: > > I boot to Windows 98 to print things (my colour logo) that have dreary > colours when printed in linux. A graphic designer suggested that it > might have something to do with the difference between CYMK and RGB > rendering (I'd love to be able to say I understand that - I don't). I > imagine the linux printer for EPSON Stylus C86 sucks whereas the Windows > 98 one does not. Probably because EPSON spends a whack of money to > create the Windows driver and not a penny for a linux driver. [I'm > already digressing but here's another sidebar: I recently bought a > SupraMax 56K external modem that actually ships with a linux driver - > reads "Linux" right on the CD for Bill Gates and the whole world to see! > Has anyone manufactured a good inkjet printer that actually ships with a > linux driver (as good as the Windows one that gives you all those > printer head cleaning utilities and ink refill gages, etc?)] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 13:12:32 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 08:12:32 -0500 Subject: [NTL] chmod 777 /windows not enough? In-Reply-To: References: <427DF7C3.5020503@shinypinemusic.com> Message-ID: Sorry about that.. wrong list. My brain just isn't on right now. =( -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 13:40:25 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 16:40:25 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [NTL] chmod 777 /windows not enough? In-Reply-To: References: <427DF7C3.5020503@shinypinemusic.com> Message-ID: >> Has anyone manufactured a good inkjet printer that actually ships with a >> linux driver (as good as the Windows one that gives you all those >> printer head cleaning utilities and ink refill gages, etc?)] Are you *sure* that you want those 'ink refill gages' which tell the printer when to stop printing with cartridges that still have ink in them or have just been refilled 'to prevent damage' to the cartridge (that needs replacement anyway) ? I feel that someone has been doing an excellent advertising work. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 14:44:10 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 10:44:10 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427DB122.8040106-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508144410.GA2129@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 02:26:42AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > 2) a new linux user pamphlet that features > a) an explanation of "what is the command line, how do I find it and > why should I care ?" > b) an introduction to "man" and "info" > c) summarized essential commands > d) links to linux basics on the web > e) links to helpful sites specific to their freshly installed distro > (ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog) > f) directions to mailing list/ IRC/ LUG/ community help May be we could for-pay "tutorial" series at your LinuxCaffe? Say, every Thurs. If we do this often enough, then we can build a cirriculum. Do I smell money, here? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 15:40:35 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 11:40:35 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508144410.GA2129-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <20050508144410.GA2129@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <427E32F3.2050204@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: >May be we could for-pay "tutorial" series at your LinuxCaffe? > Entirely possible ! It is one of a whole spectrum of support options. I'd like to host a meeting of interested parties (those who can offer support, or have ideas along those lines) in the near future. see subject line; paid support options meeting. > Say, >every Thurs. If we do this often enough, then we can build a >cirriculum. > There is a likelihood that some classroom-type training options could outgrow our capacity, however, there is an underused adult-learning facility at the opposite end of Bickford Park (even closer to the subway) > Do I smell money, here? > > It ain't chopped liver, my friend ! ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 16:07:09 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 12:07:09 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting Message-ID: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> Do you like linux ? and know a thing or two about it ? Do you like helping people ? and seeing widespread adoption of linux and open source ? Do you like money ? and having enough of it to pay the bills without becoming a wage-slave ? Then there may be a future for you in the exciting and exploding field of Open Source Software support ! Whether you are merely an able linux user who would enjoy helping a newbie navigate his or her new operating system, or a seasoned sysadmin, with godlike powers who can mv the moon and the stars, the emerging hoard of linux (and BSD) users, both private and corporate, will need your help ! Ugly ? Bad breath ? No legs ? No problem ! You can still use a phone, right ? Broke ? Desperate ? Willing to do anything for a buck ? Great ! Get the big bucks when your pager goes off at 2am, and you have to go driving all over hells-half-acre, chasing some website emergency for some poor (as in; unfortunate) fool ! Help us sort out the challenges we will face sorting out all the different types of user, support personnel, and support infrastructure. This is a chance to get in on the ground floor, Bub ! Meeting date TBA (but probably between May 22nd and 28th) and will be held at the (why isn't it open yet ?) linuxcaffe. So, show of hands ! Do you have a clear idea how this should work ? Do you want to be part of it ? Do you think it's the stoopidest thing you've ever heard of ? Well don't just sit on your hands, reply ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 16:30:59 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 09:30:59 -0700 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: <427E392D.1020404-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508163059.GG6706@unleashed.org> This sounds like something Pavel and Jo and I were talking about last night. Count me in for the meeting. Leah David J Patrick (davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) [050508 09:07]: > Do you like linux ? and know a thing or two about it ? > Do you like helping people ? and seeing widespread adoption of linux and > open source ? > Do you like money ? and having enough of it to pay the bills without > becoming a wage-slave ? > > Then there may be a future for you in the exciting and exploding field > of Open Source Software support ! > > Whether you are merely an able linux user who would enjoy helping a > newbie navigate his or her new operating system, or a seasoned sysadmin, > with godlike powers who can mv the moon and the stars, the emerging > hoard of linux (and BSD) users, both private and corporate, will need > your help ! > > Ugly ? Bad breath ? No legs ? No problem ! You can still use a phone, > right ? > Broke ? Desperate ? Willing to do anything for a buck ? Great ! Get the > big bucks when your pager goes off at 2am, and you have to go driving > all over hells-half-acre, chasing some website emergency for some poor > (as in; unfortunate) fool ! > > Help us sort out the challenges we will face sorting out all the > different types of user, support personnel, and support infrastructure. > This is a chance to get in on the ground floor, Bub ! Meeting date TBA > (but probably between May 22nd and 28th) and will be held at the (why > isn't it open yet ?) linuxcaffe. > > So, show of hands ! Do you have a clear idea how this should work ? Do > you want to be part of it ? Do you think it's the stoopidest thing > you've ever heard of ? Well don't just sit on your hands, reply ! > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 16:30:49 2005 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 12:30:49 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508163049.GA24335@xtrinsic.net> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 08:01:59AM -0500, Sy wrote: > On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > > > 1) a sign-up sheet that > > c) gathers a hardware profile > > Is there a liveboot distro that focuses on information gathering? I > can easily see a lot of users just not knowing enough of their own > distro. Mepis has been *excellent* to me. www.mepis.com with very little effort you can go from Live CD to installed OS. The live CD has a button on the desktop that says, "Install Mepis to my computer" (or something to that effect). Hopefully the advantages are obvious... My friend Ken has figured out the workaround for those who don't have a bootable CD drive. And then once it's all up and running I just did a "dist upgrade" to get back to Debian. (Which I know and love.) Hopefully the revised/updated checklists will make it back into the LDP if the LDP stuff is out of date? thanks, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 16:34:59 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 12:34:59 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: <427E392D.1020404-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508163459.GA3620@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 12:07:09PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Then there may be a future for you in the exciting and exploding field > of Open Source Software support ! Company will get support from whoever they got the application from or whoever set up the system. I'm more interested in training side of things. Right now, companies spend money on training of their employee for Windows. These companies are non-IT companies, where people just push keys. If they switch to Linux, they'll need to train their employees for general competency on Linux. This is a bit different from LPI. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 17:01:03 2005 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Drew Sullivan) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 13:01:03 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-MEMBERS]: ss.org down? In-Reply-To: <000c01c553db$2e168c20$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <000c01c553db$2e168c20$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <1115571664.29341.1.camel@pentagon.ss.org> On Sun, 2005-05-08 at 10:35 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have three phone numbers for Drew in my Palm handheld, I have called all > three, noted that it appears there is a problem with the Webster on all > three numbers. About all I can do... > > "Sy" on Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:19 AM wrote: > > > If anyone has a better way to get a hold of Drew, would you please do > so? This downtime doesn't feel planned and he may not yet know. The outage wasn't planned and looks to be power related since the machine came back on its own. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 17:16:05 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 13:16:05 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: <20050508163459.GA3620-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> <20050508163459.GA3620@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <427E4955.4070101@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: >Company will get support from whoever they got the application from or >whoever set up the system. > > What if they downloaded a free distro ? Or had it installed at an installfest ? >I'm more interested in training side of things. > Training should be part of our comprehensive strategy. > Right now, companies >spend money on training of their employee for Windows. These companies >are non-IT companies, where people just push keys. If they switch to >Linux, they'll need to train their employees for general competency on >Linux. > yup ! > This is a bit different from LPI. > > explain ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 17:34:03 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 13:34:03 -0400 Subject: installfest distros Message-ID: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Presuming that those bringing their box to an installfest are less experienced (else, why don't they just do it themselves ?) What distros should we be considering ? If follow-up support is part of the picture, should there even be an option ? ubuntu My current desktop. After using Mandrake, for a couple of years, and the Knoppix HD install, ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog has a lot going for it; pro; debian(ish), good hardware support, strong dev community, gnome con; non-free (but important) elements switched off, by default (some say this is a pro), med/high hardware requirements mepis (personally never tried it, but comes highly recommended) pro; debian, ... con; ... DamnSmallLinux (for hardware underachievers) pro; very low hardware requirements, debian, excellent knoppix-based hw detection, security enhancements, hardware enhancements (USB bootable, user files options), growing one-click software repository, ... con; neither gnome nor KDE (although no problems running the apps) others ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 17:58:34 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 13:58:34 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427DB122.8040106-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <427E534A.8090008@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: >For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I >would like to be able to offer new users; > >1) a sign-up sheet that > c) gathers a hardware profile > > Many (most ?) users will be bringing a box with Windoze on it. Is there a Win hardware profile utility that could be run (at home, before they that things apart) that would help the (human) installers get thing right ? How about a web-based HW probe ? The third alternative would be something bootable. > d) gathers computer usage profile (including dual-boot preference) > > Dual-boot raises issues; -backup can we (should we) offer a (paid) back-up service, before the install ? What medium ? What data ? -migration There are utilities to migrate Windows users data, is there an off-the-shelf solution suitable for an install-fest ? > e) has a liability waiver > > any lawyers in the crowd ? The installees shall be made aware of potential risks, The (human) installers will not be held liable for; -loss of data -loss of productivity -damage to hardware -snooty attitudes of WinXP loving (former) friends djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 18:25:07 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 13:25:07 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-MEMBERS]: ss.org down? In-Reply-To: <1115571664.29341.1.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <000c01c553db$2e168c20$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1115571664.29341.1.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: Cool, thanks man. =) On 5/8/05, Drew Sullivan wrote: > On Sun, 2005-05-08 at 10:35 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I have three phone numbers for Drew in my Palm handheld, I have called all > > three, noted that it appears there is a problem with the Webster on all > > three numbers. About all I can do... > > > > "Sy" on Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:19 AM wrote: > > > > > > If anyone has a better way to get a hold of Drew, would you please do > > so? This downtime doesn't feel planned and he may not yet know. > > The outage wasn't planned and looks to be power related since the > machine came back on its own. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 18:53:42 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 14:53:42 -0400 Subject: Installfest support Message-ID: <427E6036.9050007@rogers.com> > > >Many (most ?) users will be bringing a box with Windoze on it. Is there >a Win hardware profile utility that could be run (at home, before they >that things apart) that would help the (human) installers get thing >right ? How about a web-based HW probe ? The third alternative would be >something bootable. > Belarc Advisor is probably the best one. http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 19:58:59 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 22:58:59 +0300 (IDT) Subject: live cd's for many purposes Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/07/live_cd_paradise/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 20:12:12 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 16:12:12 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-MEMBERS]: ss.org down? In-Reply-To: <1115571664.29341.1.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <000c01c553db$2e168c20$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1115571664.29341.1.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: <427E729C.5070800@rogers.com> What's this??? Drew actually posting a message on the TLUG list??? Didn't know it was allowed. ;-) Drew Sullivan wrote: > On Sun, 2005-05-08 at 10:35 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>I have three phone numbers for Drew in my Palm handheld, I have called all >>three, noted that it appears there is a problem with the Webster on all >>three numbers. About all I can do... >> >>"Sy" on Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:19 AM wrote: >> >> >>If anyone has a better way to get a hold of Drew, would you please do >>so? This downtime doesn't feel planned and he may not yet know. > > > The outage wasn't planned and looks to be power related since the > machine came back on its own. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 20:11:37 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 16:11:37 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> Message-ID: <427E7279.2040705@execulink.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > Do an ldd and report the results. My gut feeling is a lib version which > is reporting as acceptable but in fact isn't quite what the app is > expecting. If this is true then $LD_PRELOAD is your friend. > > Cheers, > Rob > I wasn't aware of ldd or gdb and I thank you both. Not much from ldd: [mr6re9 at mycrowsauce ~]$ ldd -v /usr/local/games/RT2/rt2 not a dynamic executable > Peter wrote: >> >> recompile the game with -g and run it under gdb using 'gdb game' then in >> gdb 'set args ...' (whatever you would give as args on the command >> line), and 'run'. The program will stop with a SIGSEGV at or near where >> the problem occured. This will tell you where to look. >> >> good luck, >> Peter >> >> -- I cannot recompile the game without the source. It was installed with setup.sh off the CD but here goes... [mr6re9 at mycrowsauce ~]$ gdb /usr/local/games/RT2/rt2 GNU gdb Red Hat Linux (6.1post-1.20040607.43rh) Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-redhat-linux-gnu"...(no debugging symbols found)...Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/libthread_db.so.1". (gdb) run Starting program: /usr/local/games/RT2/rt2 warning: shared library handler failed to enable breakpoint Program received signal SIG32, Real-time event 32. 0x08203930 in ?? () (gdb) c Continuing. Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x00000420 in ?? () (gdb) c Continuing. BUG! (Segmentation Fault) Going down hard... Railroad Tycoon II 1.54c Built with glibc-2.1 on x86 Stack dump: { 0x818783e 0x8166ac4 0x816692b 0x816080d 0x816098e 0x81578f1 0x814fec9 0x814ffa8 0x8048373 0x820037d 0x8048111 } Please send a full bug report, along with the contents of autosave to: support-YbCKSAfbhHWakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Unable to execute loki_qagent - exiting Program exited with code 0377. (gdb) quit I suppose this means all of my old Loki game CD's are coasters? What are those 0x0000000 things and can I get anymore clues from them? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 20:47:36 2005 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 16:47:36 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <427E4D8B.2050209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:34:03PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Presuming that those bringing their box to an installfest are less > experienced (else, why don't they just do it themselves ?) What distros > should we be considering ? If follow-up support is part of the picture, > should there even be an option ? > > ubuntu > . . . > > mepis (personally never tried it, but comes highly recommended) > . . . > > DamnSmallLinux (for hardware underachievers) > . . . > > others ? Hmm - I notice a slight Debian bias in the above. :-) Pro: An all Debian derived installfest will make support options simpler for those helping out. Con: Someone like me, who has never used Debian outside of booting Knoppix (and it's relatives) from CDROM, will be a little handicapped in some aspects of the install (although I suspect that most questions / challenges will be fairly generic). So, at the risk of starting a distro war (skirmish ?), might I humbly suggest Slackware as an alternate distro. My thoughts here (besides the fact that there are five machines around my desk running Slackware 9.? thru 10.1) is that there may be some in attendance that are fairly adept at these computer things, want to learn about this Line-Ux they've been hearing about, and would like a more "hands on/learning" oriented distribution. I recognize that we don't want every machine to have a different distro (do we?) but a couple of different mainstream categories should be manageable. Just a thought? Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:08:41 2005 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Steve A) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:08:41 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508204736.GA30718-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 04:47:36PM -0400 or thereabouts, Allen Taylor wrote: > > Hmm - I notice a slight Debian bias in the above. :-) > > Pro: An all Debian derived installfest will make support options > simpler for those helping out. > Con: Someone like me, who has never used Debian outside of booting > Knoppix (and it's relatives) from CDROM, will be a little handicapped in > some aspects of the install (although I suspect that most questions / > challenges will be fairly generic). > > So, at the risk of starting a distro war (skirmish ?), might I humbly > suggest Slackware as an alternate distro. My thoughts here (besides the > fact that there are five machines around my desk running Slackware 9.? > thru 10.1) is that there may be some in attendance that are fairly > adept at these computer things, want to learn about this Line-Ux they've > been hearing about, and would like a more "hands on/learning" oriented > distribution. Slack is hardly a novice friendly distro. I think distros like Libranet/Ubuntu and SuSE, Mandrake are probably better choices, FWIW. I personally would think Libranet the primo choice since it's a Canadian distro, as is easy to use for those used to Windoze. -- Steve A. ----------------------------------------------- Sunday May 08 2005 05:00:01 PM EDT ----------------------------------------------- For reservations, call your travel agent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:25:26 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 00:25:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <427E7279.2040705-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> <427E7279.2040705@execulink.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 May 2005, Gregory D Hough wrote: >>> recompile the game with -g and run it under gdb using 'gdb game' then in >>> gdb 'set args ...' (whatever you would give as args on the command line), >>> and 'run'. The program will stop with a SIGSEGV at or near where the >>> problem occured. This will tell you where to look. > I cannot recompile the game without the source. It was installed with > setup.sh off the CD but here goes... ow. Closed source, eh ? Wrong mailing list perhaps ? (please see below) > This GDB was configured as "i386-redhat-linux-gnu"...(no debugging symbols ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ without this and the source, it's useless to use gdb > Program received signal SIG32, Real-time event 32. > 0x08203930 in ?? () > (gdb) c you should not do that once there is a bad fault. Anybody know what SIG32 is ? It does not exist in my installation. > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > 0x00000420 in ?? () ^^^^^^^^^^ this is in page 0 somewhere (a place where programs are not supposed to go) Since your program is static you have no way to know what happened. EVen strace is useless for it. But try it anyway: 2>strace.out strace /your/suspect/program then examine strace.out Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:29:40 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:29:40 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: <427E392D.1020404-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Help us sort out the challenges we will face sorting out all the > different types of user, support personnel, and support infrastructure. > This is a chance to get in on the ground floor, Bub ! Meeting date TBA > (but probably between May 22nd and 28th) and will be held at the (why > isn't it open yet ?) linuxcaffe. Sounds interesting, there a lots of companies popping-up in the US offering support on OSS software. Let me know when/where etc... for the meeting. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:29:12 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:29:12 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508210841.GA31903-o7t0nEE3I5OSx4Gc7p/2BTaUPDSXGbtvYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:08:41PM -0400, Steve A wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 04:47:36PM -0400 or thereabouts, Allen Taylor > wrote: > > So, at the risk of starting a distro war (skirmish ?), might I > > humbly suggest Slackware as an alternate distro. My thoughts here > > (besides the fact that there are five machines around my desk > > running Slackware 9.? thru 10.1) is that there may be some in > > attendance that are fairly adept at these computer things, want to > > learn about this Line-Ux they've been hearing about, and would like > > a more "hands on/learning" oriented distribution. > > Slack is hardly a novice friendly distro. I think distros like > Libranet/Ubuntu and SuSE, Mandrake are probably better choices, FWIW. > > I personally would think Libranet the primo choice since it's a > Canadian distro, as is easy to use for those used to Windoze. Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest one to install, because usually you install everything from the CD to harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", "desktop", "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I don't fully understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe continue to perpetrate. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:44:20 2005 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Steve A) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:44:20 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508212912.GA1989-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:29:12PM -0400 or thereabouts, William Park wrote: > Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest one > to install, because usually you install everything from the CD to > harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", "desktop", > "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I don't fully > understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe continue to > perpetrate. It's a good distro, just not a good first choice for beginners, neither is vanilla Debian IMHO. Does Slackware have a package manager that can compare to either Debians or SuSE's ? I think not, and that is an important consideration -- don't forget we're talking for the most part about NOVICE users. Last time I used Slack, one basically had to compile by hand and look after one's own dependencies... Have things changed in this regard with Slackware ? -- Steve A. ----------------------------------------------- Sunday May 08 2005 05:35:02 PM EDT ----------------------------------------------- Tomorrow's computers some time next month. -- DEC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:51:12 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:51:12 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427DB122.8040106-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I > would like to be able to offer new users; > > 1) a sign-up sheet that > a) briefly describes what might happen to their computer > b) gathers contact information > c) gathers a hardware profile > d) gathers computer usage profile (including dual-boot preference) > e) has a liability waiver > f) is signed > > 2) a new linux user pamphlet that features > a) an explanation of "what is the command line, how do I find it and > why should I care ?" > b) an introduction to "man" and "info" > c) summarized essential commands > d) links to linux basics on the web > e) links to helpful sites specific to their freshly installed distro > (ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog) > f) directions to mailing list/ IRC/ LUG/ community help I've never attended or read about an installfest before. Is the goal to take the users PC and install Linux for them? Or do they install linux themselves and agree to the choices/risks as outlined by the distribution they choose? I was thinking the installfest would be somewhere where you get assistance installing linux yourself ( possibly with someone watching/assisting ) and many of the risks above would be limited. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 22:02:13 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:02:13 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <427E534A.8090008-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:58:34PM -0400 References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <427E534A.8090008@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050508180213.A1140@diamond.ss.org> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:58:34PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > >For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I > >would like to be able to offer new users; > > > >1) a sign-up sheet that > > c) gathers a hardware profile > > > > > Many (most ?) users will be bringing a box with Windoze on it. Is there > a Win hardware profile utility that could be run (at home, before they > that things apart) that would help the (human) installers get thing > right ? How about a web-based HW probe ? The third alternative would be > something bootable. Sorrybefore hand if anyone has mentioned this, but I haven't been around all weekend and there are three hundred messages. Does anyone have a copy of partition magic or something similar that will allow us to shrink an existing Windows installation? Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 21:55:13 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:55:13 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <427E4D8B.2050209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Presuming that those bringing their box to an installfest are less > experienced (else, why don't they just do it themselves ?) What distros > should we be considering ? If follow-up support is part of the picture, > should there even be an option ? I would think support options would be fairly critcal if the goal is the have the user continue to use linux post-install. Most of the more commercial distributions either have support optoins or offer paid support plans. Not that third-parties withing GTALUG might be willing to assist but think these should be options/choices for end-users that might want more defined support offerings. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 22:31:46 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:31:46 -0500 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508180213.A1140-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <427E534A.8090008@sympatico.ca> <20050508180213.A1140@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of partition magic or something similar that will allow us to shrink an existing Windows installation? qtparted seems to work wonderfully. I used it recently off of a pclinuxos liveboot to shrink an ntfs partition and was quite impressed. Mind you all the data was at the start of the partition already. I take it that there is a trust issue with using free tools for playing with something dangerous like this though.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 22:32:57 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:32:57 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508180213.A1140-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050508180213.A1140@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: Yes I have a good recovery CD that will allow this and user data bacup to external USB harddrive. It's called Paragon Hard Disk Manager. Signed Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 6:02 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: installfest support On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:58:34PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > >For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I > >would like to be able to offer new users; > > > >1) a sign-up sheet that > > c) gathers a hardware profile > > > > > Many (most ?) users will be bringing a box with Windoze on it. Is there > a Win hardware profile utility that could be run (at home, before they > that things apart) that would help the (human) installers get thing > right ? How about a web-based HW probe ? The third alternative would be > something bootable. Sorrybefore hand if anyone has mentioned this, but I haven't been around all weekend and there are three hundred messages. Does anyone have a copy of partition magic or something similar that will allow us to shrink an existing Windows installation? Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 23:44:57 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 19:44:57 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <427E4D8B.2050209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Presuming that those bringing their box to an installfest are less > experienced (else, why don't they just do it themselves ?) What distros > should we be considering ? If follow-up support is part of the picture, > should there even be an option ? Just so. You can NOT have the choices be wide open if there is to be any hope of follow-up assistance. I'm loathe to use the word "support" as that tends to be a sort of entitlement that people pay for. If they're getting assistance gratis, it is NOT an entitlement, and wide-open choices are not an option. > ubuntu > My current desktop. After using Mandrake, for a couple of years, and > the Knoppix HD install, ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog has a lot going for it; > pro; debian(ish), good hardware support, strong dev community, gnome > con; non-free (but important) elements switched off, by default > (some say this is a pro), med/high hardware requirements > > mepis (personally never tried it, but comes highly recommended) > pro; debian, ... > con; ... This would beg the question of why not Debian proper... > DamnSmallLinux (for hardware underachievers) > pro; very low hardware requirements, debian, excellent knoppix-based > hw detection, security enhancements, hardware enhancements (USB > bootable, user files options), growing one-click software repository, ... > con; neither gnome nor KDE (although no problems running the apps) > > others ? Of these, the only one I had heard of was Ubuntu. I think the choices probably ought to be a bit more "mainstream," as it's NOT all about having the Most Elite Distribution, but rather about having a functioning system that is fairly widely understood. I'd not be too inclined to go much further afield than: a) Debian (remember, if there are "experts" around to help install it, the claims of it being 'hard for newbies to install' become totally irrelevant) b) Fedora (there's stuff NOT to like about it, but it's still certainly "mainstream") c) Mandrake / Mandriva (I don't know that this is popular around Toronto; I do know that it was WIDELY installed at the monthly NTLUG Linux Installation Project sessions...) d) Perhaps Slackware Anything more "out there" than that is going to suffer from the post-install problem that it may be tough to find someone around that knows the ins and outs of the distribution. (Granted, people can puzzle out differences. Better not to need to...) Think about it: The point of the exercise is to get people past the "learning cliff" of getting Linux installed. If you then add back the "learning cliff" of the distribution being one that they can't get help with, that is way less helpful than the process ought to be. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 8 23:53:00 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 19:53:00 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: <427E4955.4070101-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> <20050508163459.GA3620@node1.opengeometry.net> <427E4955.4070101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Company will get support from whoever they got the application from or > >whoever set up the system. > > > > > What if they downloaded a free distro ? Or had it installed at an > installfest ? Then they can right well go back and install whatever the company doing support is prepared to support. The TRUE value of the InstallFest is to get people past the "learning cliff" of getting Linux installed. That gives them a system to toy around with. If they want to head to "serious" from there, there are two reasonable routes: 1. Figure it out themselves, and support it themselves, perhaps by pointing some questions in the direction of either mailing lists or at consultants billing not-inconsiderable hourly rates. 2. If they want a consultant holding their hand, it makes most sense to have the consultant start with a configuration that is KNOWN to the consultant, meaning that the consultant comes in and spends 2h reinstalling things from scratch. The instant you try to do some sort of cross between this, where you expect GTALUG to do free installs and for the consultants to support that, the lack of control at the InstallFest can, at blink of eye, cost the poor client $200 because of some misunderstanding. And that situation is in nobody's interests. FAR better to pay $100 up front to get someone to do a fresh install so that there are no arguments about who mussed things up. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 00:09:26 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 20:09:26 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508180213.A1140-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <427E534A.8090008@sympatico.ca> <20050508180213.A1140@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <427EAA36.2020806@rogers.com> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:58:34PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > >>David J Patrick wrote: >> >> >>>For the planned installfest, at linuxcaffe, here are a few things I >>>would like to be able to offer new users; >>> >>>1) a sign-up sheet that >>> c) gathers a hardware profile >>> >>> >> >>Many (most ?) users will be bringing a box with Windoze on it. Is there >>a Win hardware profile utility that could be run (at home, before they >>that things apart) that would help the (human) installers get thing >>right ? How about a web-based HW probe ? The third alternative would be >>something bootable. > > > Sorrybefore hand if anyone has mentioned this, but I haven't been around all weekend and there are three hundred messages. > > Does anyone have a copy of partition magic or something similar that will allow us to shrink an existing Windows installation? I have one. I'll have to do some digging to find it though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 00:40:21 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:40:21 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508214420.GB31903-o7t0nEE3I5OSx4Gc7p/2BTaUPDSXGbtvYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050509004021.GA20500@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:44:20PM -0400, Steve A wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:29:12PM -0400 or thereabouts, William Park wrote: > > > Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest > > one to install, because usually you install everything from the CD > > to harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", > > "desktop", "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I > > don't fully understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe > > continue to perpetrate. > > It's a good distro, just not a good first choice for beginners, > neither is vanilla Debian IMHO. > > Does Slackware have a package manager that can compare to either > Debians or SuSE's ? I think not, and that is an important > consideration -- don't forget we're talking for the most part about > NOVICE users. Last time I used Slack, one basically had to compile by > hand and look after one's own dependencies... > > Have things changed in this regard with Slackware ? Slackware has package manager; it's called 'tar'. You can upgrade "live" in Slackware, just like any other distro. For newbies, we want to move them from - insert CD to - log into KDE as quickly as possible. The whole idea of InstallFest is to give them (individuals or company reps) a look and feel of Linux. After they move about in KDE, click few things in Open Office, Firefox, and Thunderbird, they'll realize it's not that bad or different (we hope). If they want post-install support, then they can pay. Support issue is not simple thing. Training issue is a bit cleaner, because after "class" is over, that's that. I don't think we should be worried about this, at this point. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 00:59:26 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 20:59:26 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050509004021.GA20500-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050509004021.GA20500@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <427EB5EE.1090208@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:44:20PM -0400, Steve A wrote: > >>Does Slackware have a package manager that can compare to either >>Debians or SuSE's ? I think not, and that is an important >>consideration -- don't forget we're talking for the most part about >>NOVICE users. Last time I used Slack, one basically had to compile by >>hand and look after one's own dependencies... >> >>Have things changed in this regard with Slackware ? > > > Slackware has package manager; it's called 'tar'. You can upgrade > "live" in Slackware, just like any other distro. Since when is tar a package manager? All it is, is a container for a collection of files, that also supports compression. Will it tell you if an app is currently installed? Determine dependencies? etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 01:06:09 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:06:09 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050509004021.GA20500-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050509004021.GA20500@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, William Park wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:44:20PM -0400, Steve A wrote: > > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:29:12PM -0400 or thereabouts, William Park wrote: > > > > > Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest > > > one to install, because usually you install everything from the CD > > > to harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", > > > "desktop", "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I > > > don't fully understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe > > > continue to perpetrate. > > > > It's a good distro, just not a good first choice for beginners, > > neither is vanilla Debian IMHO. > > > > Does Slackware have a package manager that can compare to either > > Debians or SuSE's ? I think not, and that is an important > > consideration -- don't forget we're talking for the most part about > > NOVICE users. Last time I used Slack, one basically had to compile by > > hand and look after one's own dependencies... > > > > Have things changed in this regard with Slackware ? > > Slackware has package manager; it's called 'tar'. You can upgrade > "live" in Slackware, just like any other distro. Then the *straight* answer is, no, it has not changed. As far as I can see, Slackware still lacks the ability for the packaging system to recursively track dependancies and to permit automated incremental upgrades. Tar is NOT a package manager; it is a Tape Archiving program; if that's the only alternative you can point to as alternative to apt-get/yast/urpmi, it is a sad thing. The BSD guys transmit packages as tarballs, but structure the sources using Ports. It's "merely" a cluster of Makefiles, but it's not so primitive that they could say "oh, just download a tarball and run make." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 01:23:29 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:23:29 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050509004021.GA20500-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050509004021.GA20500@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050509012329.GA20581@sophocles> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 08:40:21PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:44:20PM -0400, Steve A wrote: > > Does Slackware have a package manager that can compare to either > > Debians or SuSE's ? I think not, and that is an important > > consideration -- don't forget we're talking for the most part about > > NOVICE users. Last time I used Slack, one basically had to compile by > > hand and look after one's own dependencies... > > > > Have things changed in this regard with Slackware ? > > Slackware has package manager; it's called 'tar'. You can upgrade > "live" in Slackware, just like any other distro. Although I've never used Slackware, I have heard of swaret, which appears to handle some package management tasks for it. At the very least, it claims to do what it can to ensure that the required libraries for packages that are installed through it are installed (going by its page on sf.net). Any comments on how using it compares to package management on other distros? -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 02:04:32 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 22:04:32 -0400 Subject: getmail question... What is a "Maildir" supposed to be??? Message-ID: <20050509020432.GA18895@waltdnes.org> The Gentoo packagers have decided to not include the pushkey option, so the muttrc option... push"G" doesn't work. I'm trying to use getmail to pull mail. Here's a really basic config file for testing... [retriever] type = SimplePOP3Retriever server = 127.0.0.1 username = ******** port = 10110 password = ******** [destination] type = Maildir path = ~/Maildir/ user = waltdnes [options] read_all = true delete = false message_log = ~/.getmail/log max_messages_per_session = 5 I run up a 2-line script that first sets up ssh-tunneling, and then launches getmail. I've created a directory "Maildir" in my home directory. The ssh session does connect, and I get the following complaints. What is required of Maildir? /usr/lib/python2.3/optparse.py:668: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4 and up return ("<%s at 0x%x: %r>" getmail version 4.3.3 Copyright (C) 1998-2004 Charles Cazabon. Licensed under the GNU GPL version 2. SimplePOP3Retriever:waltdnes-savSHZN5Fh8qMp+WYRx65w at public.gmane.org:10110: Delivery error (maildir delivery 18921 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) msg 1/175 (2792 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18921 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) Delivery error (maildir delivery 18922 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) msg 2/175 (2299 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18922 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) Delivery error (maildir delivery 18923 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) msg 3/175 (2448 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18923 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) Delivery error (maildir delivery 18924 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) msg 4/175 (3656 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18924 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) Delivery error (maildir delivery 18925 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) msg 5/175 (10417 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18925 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) 5 messages retrieved, 0 skipped The logfile looks OK. 2005-05-08 21:39:38 Initializing SimplePOP3Retriever:waltdnes-savSHZN5Fh8qMp+WYRx65w at public.gmane.org:10110: 2005-05-08 21:39:38 msg 1/175 (2792 bytes) msgid 1115510207.4707.manson from 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 2/175 (2299 bytes) msgid 1115513396.9085.manson from 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 3/175 (2448 bytes) msgid 1115513917.9751.manson from 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 4/175 (3656 bytes) msgid 1115515876.12248.manson from 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 5/175 (10417 bytes) msgid 1115515947.12315.manson from -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 02:16:07 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 22:16:07 -0400 Subject: [flame bait] installfest distros and support Message-ID: <1115604967.19179.54.camel@holden.weait.net> Has anybody suggested talking to the new user before enforcing a particular distro choice? If not, I'll suggest that now. For one thing it will start a dialogue between the new user and the experienced assistant. It might be important to find out what expectations the new user has before you start partitioning their box. At Ohio Linuxfest last year, the keynote speaker Paul Ferris posed a hypothetical situation. I'll paraphrase, just pretend that I'm riveting: "Let's say you are the IT person in charge of keeping the computers running at a small company. That is probably true to some extent. And let's say that the company runs a lot of boxes with proprietary software. Then the boss comes to you one day and says, 'I hear this Red Hat thing can run our email?' Should your reply be, 'Red Hat Sukzorz and MyDistro Rul3zorz!!!1!' or should you say something like, 'I'll set up a demonstration for you.'?" If you want to help folks adopt Linux and give them a better chance to stay with it why not find out: 1) How they heard of the installfest and what (in general terms) they hope to accomplish. This also tells us what forms of advertising worked for this installfest so we know how to improve for the next one. 2) What their general level of computer guru-ish-ness is, and how much UNIX / Linux /BSD / GNU background they have, if any. We'll probably see folks that are pretty savvy on other OS. Remember anyone coming to Linux is still an early adopter (just not as early as you) and probably a thought leader in their organization. You can treat them like an idiot and give the Linux community a bad name. 3) What current infrastructure / culture they want to use for help? Will they use this box for Linux homework while their instructors and labs expect everything to be on RH7.3 ? If so, does it really make sense to install something else that you think is "way better!" For Experts If you tell someone they have to use MyDistro because it is the best aren't you obligated to take their late night telephone calls for advice? For new users If you plan to call someone for late night help and advice, shouldn't you install the distro they recommend so they'll be familiar with the details? For installers Do what you are comfortable doing. If you haven't installed MyDistro before and only use YourDistro, pass them off to another installer. Not familiar with dual boot? Call someone that is to help with that. You shouldn't experiment on the computer of a new user; they came to the installfest to trust you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 02:50:27 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 22:50:27 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508204736.GA30718-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <427E97B3.13618.2569E984@localhost> > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:34:03PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > So, at the risk of starting a distro war (skirmish ?), might I humbly > suggest Slackware as an alternate distro. My thoughts here (besides > the fact that there are five machines around my desk running Slackware > 9.? thru 10.1) is that there may be some in attendance that are fairly > adept at these computer things, want to learn about this Line-Ux > they've been hearing about, and would like a more "hands on/learning" > oriented distribution. While I, a long-time Linux user might sympathise with Slackware as a suggestion, it might not be ready for the big-time Joe User. Why Slack is not viable as a beginner distro has been elaborated in other parts of this thread. For a serious free distro, I would suggest something that has at least some kind of package management in it, which Slack does not have. Most people want to use their computer to get on with other work; unlike us they don't wish to spend a solid week reading manpages, info pages, and kernel docs in order to get their system to do what they want it to do, which might only be something like using Firefox or Open Office. And if there are bugs in the distro, then you have to worry about upgrades and managing package clashes, which Slack expecs you to do on your own. If your full- time job is to understand package relationships, then that's OK. But for a novice, that is probably not the goal. We are not here to turn the computer world into a world of Gurus and sysops, as much as we would like to. To most people, the computer is an appliance, like a washing machine or a toaster. It does humdrum tasks that saves people many hours of work, and in doing so gives them time to do other things. If we now present them with an OS that seems as though it requires the reading of more manpages that most people can lift if it were printed, then we will scare them off. Bill Gates himself could not have thought of a more powerful way to promote Microsoft than that. Paul King > > I recognize that we don't want every machine to have a different > distro (do we?) but a couple of different mainstream categories should > be manageable. > > Just a thought? > > Allen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 03:52:44 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 23:52:44 -0400 Subject: Anti-Fedora?? Message-ID: <427EA64C.27086.25A2F052@localhost> Hello Some time ago, I posted for help on a problem encountered with a Fedora distro I was experimenting with. While no one responded, the problem was later solved. I wondered why no one answered. While it may be that there were several reasons for not answering, I am just wondering if any of those reasons have to do with Fedora. Is there any reason I should *not* use Fedora, other than the fact that it is a test distro and could contain broken packages? If that is the case, I took the same risk when I installed Sarge, but was far worse off. At least with Fedora, I have X windows and can see the HD partitions on my Promis card. That wasn't possible under Debian Sarge. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 04:15:37 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 00:15:37 -0400 Subject: Anti-Fedora?? References: <427EA64C.27086.25A2F052@localhost> Message-ID: <001201c5544d$d2e057a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, 08 May, 2005 23:52 Subject: [TLUG]: Anti-Fedora?? > Hello > > Some time ago, I posted for help on a problem encountered with a Fedora distro I > was experimenting with. While no one responded, the problem was later solved. I > wondered why no one answered. While it may be that there were several reasons for > not answering, I am just wondering if any of those reasons have to do with Fedora. Is > there any reason I should *not* use Fedora, other than the fact that it is a test distro > and could contain broken packages? If that is the case, I took the same risk when I > installed Sarge, but was far worse off. At least with Fedora, I have X windows and > can see the HD partitions on my Promis card. That wasn't possible under Debian > Sarge. > > Paul Why not subscribe to the Fedora list? http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list I receive tens of "digests" every day, and always got the answers to my questions! For what I do Fedora seems the most practical distro from the ones I tried, for both a laptop and a desktop. It is also very close to Red Hat which is one of the most popular distros on the "commercial" side. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 05:09:38 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:09:38 +0300 (IDT) Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <427EB5EE.1090208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050508214420.GB31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050509004021.GA20500@node1.opengeometry.net> <427EB5EE.1090208@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > Since when is tar a package manager? All it is, is a container for a > collection of files, that also supports compression. Will it tell you if an > app is currently installed? Determine dependencies? etc. Slackware packages contain a little piece of code (shell script) that is run automatically for installation. The code can be as complex as you wish ... and often is for well made packages. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 06:11:50 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 02:11:50 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <427E4D8B.2050209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050509061150.GA19891@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:34:03PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote > Presuming that those bringing their box to an installfest are less > experienced (else, why don't they just do it themselves ?) What distros > should we be considering ? If follow-up support is part of the picture, > should there even be an option ? I'd say Debian. For the all machines *INSTALL* Gnome+KDE. For older machines *USE* Blackbox for the WM. There are lots of good Gnome and KDE *APPLICATIONS* (gimp, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Kmail, etc) but their *DESKTOP ENVIRONMENTS* are right up there with Windows XP as far as useless eye-candy and bloat are concerned. I've found that Blackbox WM plus Gnome+KDE *APPLICATIONS* work OK on a 400-to-450 mhz machine with 128 megs of RAM. Oh, and don't even *THINK* about OpenOffice. The developers at Sun... - obviously think the entire world has machines with at least 512 megs of RAM and screaming cpus. - has the latest install of Java. There are quite a lot of menu items in OO that simply *WILL NOT WORK* if Java ain't there. For additional giggles, it won't build on Gentoo unless you have at least PAM headers or the full PAM package (although the binary package appears to install OK). *WHY*??? BTW, I rip out PAM first thing when installing Gentoo. It may be appropriate at an ISP with thousands of shell accounts, but for a home machine it is a big fat PITA. It should be moved out of the main build menu into the optional security area, where NSA Selinux and other super-duper-secure goodies go. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 11:43:09 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 14:43:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: giant list of live cds Message-ID: no comment required (just bandwidth): http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 11:55:47 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 07:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508180213.A1140-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <427E534A.8090008@sympatico.ca> <20050508180213.A1140@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 May 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 01:58:34PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > Does anyone have a copy of partition magic or something similar that > will allow us to shrink an existing Windows installation? I haven't used it (never had Windows on any of my computers), but I've heard that the Mandrake/Mandriva installation has a tool which will downsize a Windows partition (must be defragged first, I believe). I'd suggest Mandrake as an easy-to-install, easy to maintain distro for new users. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 12:45:26 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 08:45:26 -0400 Subject: Anti-Fedora?? In-Reply-To: <427EA64C.27086.25A2F052@localhost> References: <427EA64C.27086.25A2F052@localhost> Message-ID: <427F5B66.1010706@alteeve.com> pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello > > Some time ago, I posted for help on a problem encountered with a Fedora distro I > was experimenting with. While no one responded, the problem was later solved. I > wondered why no one answered. While it may be that there were several reasons for > not answering, I am just wondering if any of those reasons have to do with Fedora. Is > there any reason I should *not* use Fedora, other than the fact that it is a test distro > and could contain broken packages? If that is the case, I took the same risk when I > installed Sarge, but was far worse off. At least with Fedora, I have X windows and > can see the HD partitions on my Promis card. That wasn't possible under Debian > Sarge. > > Paul I've been running FC4t2 and I have stuck to 'fedoraforums.org' and the Fedora mailing list for my questions (I didn't see yours, sorry!). It seemed a little too specific for TLUG, specially given that it is a test release. As an aside, how are you finding FC4? I had a lot of panel and sound problems for a while but I think they have ironed out a lot of their bugs. Oh, I've also had a hell of a time compiling almost anything. I always get missing file errors even when the file is there. Generally though I am starting to like it after a bit of frustration. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 12:55:22 2005 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:55:22 +1000 Subject: Free Java (was Database for "average" users) In-Reply-To: References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1115643322.28398.23.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> On Sun, 2005-01-05 at 21:25 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > A fair number of the extensions getting added to OpenOffice.org seem > to be Java apps, and the ability to include Java in Linux > distributions is still pretty spotty. That is decreasingly accurate. > I don't see any JDK available for Debian other than in the non-free > section Debian being the only significant exception. RHEL, Fedora, Gentoo, etc all have Java easy to use in the mainline distro. > , and I haven't seen much indication of alternatives to Sun's > implementation being widely usable for general purposes. [And, although it's not free by Debian's definition (the problem mostly being restrictions around redistribution), Sun's JVM is nevertheless freely available, and works VERY well, thank you very much. For a large footprint, long running, heavy load server instance I wouldn't choose anything but.] As for free java, it is a reality, and it works quite well for most situations. In particular, GCJ's ability to compile to native executables is brilliant. > There are a > bunch of alternative JVMs, but only spotty coverage of Java classes. That is also inaccurate. A significant issue for any Java implementation is compatibility, and I'm pleased to report the observation that those doing third party Java implementations have been *very* scrupulous to stick to the defined Java standard. GCJ 3.4 gets to "rather good" and the recently released GCJ 4.0 (part of GCC 4.0) has outstanding coverage and compatibility and indeed can quite rightly claim to be a 1.4.2 JDK. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Management Consultant Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 14:47:02 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:47:02 +0000 Subject: Installfest Message-ID: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> I have been reading the various responses about the installfest and I think that there is a real desire in the group to put the cart before the horse. The purposes of the installfest should be: - to promote the use of Linux - to promote membership in GTALug - to make the conversion from Microsoft as seamless as possible To these ends, there are some issues that have to be considered: -are questions from newbies really welcome on the mailing list -- if not then maybe a newbie list should be started and populated first - to determine what distros should be offered at the 'fest, a poll should be conducted to find out which flavours are the most popular amongst the existing membership. The top five should be looked at and the distros that offer the best community support (number of forums, specific mailing lists, ease of configuration) should be picked - we should be selling memberships to GTALug, rather than the "high tech guns for hire" approach that some of the members seem to prefer. It may well turn out that some of us do garner support contracts out of the experience, but that shouldn't be a primary goal. One of the main detractions of Microsoft is their money grubbing reputation and we should go out of our way not to emulate that. My $0.02 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:03:05 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:03:05 -0400 Subject: Anti-Fedora?? In-Reply-To: <427F5B66.1010706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427EA64C.27086.25A2F052@localhost> <427F5B66.1010706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050509080310011bec@mail.gmail.com> I keep trying other distros, but I keep coming back to Fedora Core. I'm running FC3 now, and I'll upgrade to 4 when it's "stable". Honestly, I think the style of the desktop UI is way better than stock KDE or Gnome. It's annoying to set up (get rid of RH Update, for example; and add my user to the wheel group so I can su; download apt; add /sbin to my $PATH; etc.) but it's the best I've used. www.fedorafaq.com is useful in getting off the ground. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/9/05, Madison Kelly wrote: > pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hello > > > > Some time ago, I posted for help on a problem encountered with a Fedora distro I > > was experimenting with. While no one responded, the problem was later solved. I > > wondered why no one answered. While it may be that there were several reasons for > > not answering, I am just wondering if any of those reasons have to do with Fedora. Is > > there any reason I should *not* use Fedora, other than the fact that it is a test distro > > and could contain broken packages? If that is the case, I took the same risk when I > > installed Sarge, but was far worse off. At least with Fedora, I have X windows and > > can see the HD partitions on my Promis card. That wasn't possible under Debian > > Sarge. > > > > Paul > > I've been running FC4t2 and I have stuck to 'fedoraforums.org' and the > Fedora mailing list for my questions (I didn't see yours, sorry!). It > seemed a little too specific for TLUG, specially given that it is a test > release. > > As an aside, how are you finding FC4? I had a lot of panel and sound > problems for a while but I think they have ironed out a lot of their > bugs. Oh, I've also had a hell of a time compiling almost anything. I > always get missing file errors even when the file is there. Generally > though I am starting to like it after a bit of frustration. > > Madison > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Madison Kelly (Digimer) > TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up > http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 14:53:33 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 10:53:33 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <427E7279.2040705-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> <427E7279.2040705@execulink.com> Message-ID: <427F796D.20902@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > I suppose this means all of my old Loki game CD's are coasters? Yep. Unless you want to install a distro they work on. You might be able to find a community for support, but I doubt it. This is why closed source sucks. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCf3lsgfzn5SevSpoRApQqAKCCzzuGLU8KGzhuJqqnZuzHdz4FdQCeL5kj +3KnVEv5SlzAaoPNkP6HHcQ= =9AU0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:14:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:14:12 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050506221422.GD24185-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050509151411.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 03:14:22PM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I > hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. If it is a laser printer it makes sense. How else do you keep it warm if you don't print a page once in a while? The bed has to be kept warm after all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:30:17 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:30:17 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <1115484154.3513.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <1115484154.3513.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050509153017.GG2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 12:42:34PM -0400, Steve wrote: > I would suggest also commands and functions for accessing hardware. As a > relative newbie (how many years can I say that? LOL), hardware has been > my main dilemma. Here's a few suggestions, from my own experiences: > > 1) How to mount different partitions (with necessary permissions). Both > manually and automatically at boot (fstab). > > 2) How to access DVD-RW's to burn DVD's. dvd+rw-tools: growisofs growisofs -Z /dev/dvd (mkisofs options like -J -R) dirwithfiles growisofs -M /dev/dvd (mkisofs options like -J -R) dirwithfiles (append to previous burn) growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=image.iso (burn from image). > 3) Mounting flash card readers (CF, SD, etc). hotplug agent scripts maybe? > 4) Synchronizing a Palm to Evolution (just figured that one out myself - > thanks to info on the net). And hope your palm model is one of the ones currently supported. PalmOS 4 and lower are almost always supported, but 5 is only starting to work fully in pilotlink 0.12 (which isn't released yet). > If nothing more, at least a list of URL's to specific answers (providing > they at least have their internet connection working!). Somewhat distribution specific too. Maybe a list of good locations for getting help for each distribution is good to have. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:16:28 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 11:16:28 -0400 Subject: Installfest In-Reply-To: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> References: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <427F7ECC.4090804@sympatico.ca> John McGregor wrote: >- we should be selling memberships to GTALug, rather than the "high tech >guns for hire" approach that some of the members seem to prefer. > I agree that mailing-list "support" should be primary, and the default. However, from personal experience, I know that the mailing list may, or may not, address issues that are important to me. The members are usually knowledgeable and helpful, but sometimes a call for help can be met with some flip response followed by tangential, off-topic banter, that never addresses the issue. A new user may not have the time to try the mailing list, give up, google furiously, read a bunch of unrelated stuff, pour over man pages, try stuff, and come up with some kludgy workaround. They may be hugely relieved to have access to someone who will focus on their problem. Obviously, different users have different needs/wants and I'm confidant that we, as a community, can address most of them. > It may >well turn out that some of us do garner support contracts out of the >experience, but that shouldn't be a primary goal. > agreed ! > One of the main >detractions of Microsoft is their money grubbing reputation and we >should go out of our way not to emulate that. > > By the same token, if we set up a lot of new linux users, without considering their support environment, many will get lost , frustrated, waste a lot of time, give up, run back to the borg, and never come back. > >My $0.02 > + my $0.02 = $0.04 djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:24:38 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 11:24:38 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <20050507203911.GA14845-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Walter Dnes wrote: > What's the Suse or Fedora or Debian equivalant of saying > "emerge mplayer"? With both SuSE and Fedora, you'd probably install it initially. Debian uses apt, which is similar in functionality to emerge. > How many people with Suse or Fedora or Debian have managed to get > mplayer running? Dependancy dll-hell doesn't exist on Gentoo. Uh... nor on any other linux box since linux uses elf libraries, not dlls. The concept of dependancy management is hardly a gentoo innovation. In terms of package granularity, debian has gentoo beat, although I'm not entirely convinced that this is a good thing. The SuSE / Fedora model is closer to a traditional "core" distro system. This makes them difficult to incrementally upgrade (a strength of highly granular package systems) but very predictable. I would suggest that if you're asking these kinds of questions you perhaps lack the necessary breadth of experience to make a solid recommendation on distros. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCf4C1gfzn5SevSpoRAgJgAJ9OysPfz5+7WokPjKzkb60pV40JjgCeLnWp 1B3gCh6sZ7tDg4oTotY4640= =xJbP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:39:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:39:54 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: References: <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050506190313.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050509153954.GI2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 01:32:30AM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > Aside from the security issues already mentioned there's also the > issue of alphabetising characters. It's much harder to write an > efficient sorting algorithm if there are identical characters of very > different bit widths. Yeah I suspect using the non shortest form MIGHT cause sorting order to change, while when using shortest form, sorting is apparently automaticly correct (well as correct as 32bit straight unicode is). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:06:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:06:27 -0400 Subject: Free Java (was Database for "average" users) In-Reply-To: <1115643322.28398.23.camel-Ty44UuN9vPIHc6C1GOO+uXyA94PN7R7FkemgU0Nths7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> <1115643322.28398.23.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: <20050509160627.GL2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 10:55:22PM +1000, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Debian being the only significant exception. RHEL, Fedora, Gentoo, etc > all have Java easy to use in the mainline distro. Java isn't (currently) available "free". You can install the debian package 'java-package' and then use make-jpkg on a file downloaded from sun and it will generate a nice .deb from the sun file you downloaded. Works very nicely actually. If you have a problem with that, complain to sun, or help people finish the free java implementations. After all what is java good for really? Of course when java really works in jikes/kaffe/gcj then debian will move java stuff into main and consider it perfectly nice and free. > [And, although it's not free by Debian's definition (the problem mostly > being restrictions around redistribution), Sun's JVM is nevertheless > freely available, and works VERY well, thank you very much. For a large > footprint, long running, heavy load server instance I wouldn't choose > anything but.] Sun's JVM is also NOT redistributable or repackageable without explicit permission, which makes it non-free by Debian distribution standards since they would need permission to package it up and distribute it, and even then the end user wouldn't be able to redistribute the package to others. > As for free java, it is a reality, and it works quite well for most > situations. In particular, GCJ's ability to compile to native > executables is brilliant. > > That is also inaccurate. > > A significant issue for any Java implementation is compatibility, and > I'm pleased to report the observation that those doing third party Java > implementations have been *very* scrupulous to stick to the defined Java > standard. > > GCJ 3.4 gets to "rather good" and the recently released GCJ 4.0 (part of > GCC 4.0) has outstanding coverage and compatibility and indeed can quite > rightly claim to be a 1.4.2 JDK. It can? Hmm, sounds useful. When it was 1.2 or 1.3 compatible a lot of things required 1.4 (not that any java developers ever seem to get the clue that telling the user this in the docs would be a nice thing to do). Of course a lot of things probably expect 1.5 now. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:23:33 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:23:33 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050508212912.GA1989-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050509162333.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:29:12PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest one > to install, because usually you install everything from the CD to > harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", "desktop", > "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I don't fully > understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe continue to > perpetrate. Debian installs a minimal system, after which you can ask it to install whatever you need. Much saner than install everything first and remove later. Of course if you don't know what you need, then why are you using a computer? :) The tasksel categories in Debian are not really that useful. I certainly don't agree with many of the choices they make so I never use them and don't recomend them at all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:20:03 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:20:03 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <427D831C.1020907-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050509162003.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 11:10:20PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I have an old linux game I can't get working. I've installed and patched > but it won't run. This is the only clue I have: > > BUG! (Segmentation Fault) Going down hard... > Railroad Tycoon II 1.54c > Built with glibc-2.1 on x86 > Stack dump: > { > 0x818783e > 0x8166ac4 > 0x816692b > 0x816080d > 0x816098e > 0x81578f1 > 0x814fec9 > 0x814ffa8 > 0x8048373 > 0x820037d > 0x8048111 > } > > I'm trying to run it on Fedora Core 3 and my glibc is 2.3.5-0.fc3.1. I > also have installed the nvidia driver which required commenting out load > "dri" in xorg.conf if that means anything. Google has not been my friend > with this. I haven't tried to install this game since RH9. I actually wonder what makes it the fc3 version of glibc 2.3.5? In the past redhat had released incompatible libc versions. Do they still do that or is this just an issue of a glibc2.1 program doesn't like 2.3? Check if the rt program is just a shell script and if so find the real executable and see if ldd works on it. Are you running the latest version of it? ftp://sunsite.dk/mirrors/lokigames/updates/rt2/ has the patches to go to latest version. It does look like you are running the latest. There is also some stuff about loki and segfaulting here: http://goldenfiles.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=lokipatchfix&type=readme Also this site has a list of hints on running old loki games on current systems (ubuntu in their case): http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21087 Apparently a common one is: LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 game_to_run Also here: http://members.shaw.ca/dan.mckay/LokiInst.html Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 17:08:22 2005 From: webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 17:08:22 +0000 Subject: Packaging systems (was: What about post-installfest support?) In-Reply-To: <427F80B6.1090603-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> (from ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org on Mon May 9 11:24:38 2005) References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <1115658502l.4224l.0l@localhost.localdomain> > Walter Dnes wrote: > > What's the Suse or Fedora or Debian equivalant of saying > > "emerge mplayer"? On 05/09/2005 11:24:38 AM, Andrew Hammond wrote: > With both SuSE and Fedora, you'd probably install it initially. Debian > uses apt, which is similar in functionality to emerge. Just because I see this getting asked all the time.... rpm is to deb as yum is to apt, so: yum install package-name works on Fedora and resolves all dependencies. There are also graphical front-ends, although I haven't used them myself. RPM is not an apt equivalent, and it isn't supposed to act at that level. So comparing the two just causes confusion and isn't relevant. The big gotcha on Fedora, is that some packages such as mplayer are not included for legal reasons. (Similar to debian non-free) Packages in these grey areas can be found on repositories such as freshrpms, DAG, and the like. > > How many people with Suse or Fedora or Debian have managed to get > > mplayer running? Raises hand. Although on slower machines, I have compiled from source to try and optimize mplayer. My current machine is no speed demon, but is fast enough that I just use the binary packages. Of course, I would not recommend a non-techie new user compile from source unless using a system like emerge. But then, performance for most common applications (mail, web browsing, word processing) is constrained by disk and other I/O, not CPU. So compiling for CPU optimization isn't a noticable gain in many cases. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 17:12:58 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 13:12:58 -0400 Subject: Installfest In-Reply-To: <427F7ECC.4090804-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> <427F7ECC.4090804@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <427F9A1A.6000001@utoronto.ca> David J Patrick wrote: >I agree that mailing-list "support" should be primary, and the default. >However, from personal experience, I know that the mailing list may, or >may not, address issues that are important to me. The members are >usually knowledgeable and helpful, but sometimes a call for help can be >met with some flip response followed by tangential, off-topic banter, >that never addresses the issue. A new user may not have the time to try >the mailing list, give up, google furiously, read a bunch of unrelated >stuff, pour over man pages, try stuff, and come up with some kludgy >workaround. They may be hugely relieved to have access to someone who >will focus on their problem. Obviously, different users have different >needs/wants and I'm confidant that we, as a community, can address most >of them. > > >By the same token, if we set up a lot of new linux users, without >considering their support environment, many will get lost , frustrated, >waste a lot of time, give up, run back to the borg, and never come back. > As Leah pointed out in response to my general call for post-install support, the wiki is a good place to start. I should think that as far as support is concerned, there exists enough information that can be easily compiled into a list on the wiki. There is no need to charge for additional support. I think that the whole idea of an installfest should include post-install support through already existing channels, such as the wiki or forums (I'd be happy to donate if it would help out). To simply dump Linux on someone's box almost guarantees that they will need support - to then charge for it seems, IMHO, a little underhanded. In fact, I'd say that having some form of support is really in keeping with the FLOSS ideal and that to charge for it, especially for some kindly "housewife kine that types a recipes on her computer and makes scheduling for grocery runs in her outlook." Why not support someone like this? I'm willing to do it, even with my limited abilibty. Sure it may be below some people, but I'd say an effective way to encourage people in large numbers to switch and stay with Linux is to offer ourselves up as role models. To be willing to embrace all levels of users instead of treating them to the elitism and haughtiness that they think we have when it comes to Linux is a necessary component of getting the word out there. I for one am quite willing to help out with a late night ssh session. If people want to charge for support, well then I say FOR SHAME! I think that for your average individual user, especially those who are being targeted for the installfest, who may or may not be a college/university student at that, the cost for support from any one of a group of professionals such as we have here would be prohibitive and not in keeping with the spirit of maintaining a positive profile for Linux users and Linux in general. Especially so since many people will be drawn to the installfest for the very fact that Linux is free to begin with. It might do us well to go back and try to remember what it is like being a newbie. What would you expect in such a position? What might your needs be and what would you be willing to pay for support when you could just as well go back to Windows and be done with the entire affair? Forgive me for this somewhat lengthly and rather inelegantly composed message. I'll stop here and not mention the matter again on this mailing list. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:50:47 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Meeting May 10 Message-ID: Date Tuesday May 10, 2005 Time 7:30 pm Topic Voice over IP - practical problems Speaker David Mandelstam (CEO Sangoma) Description David will discuss practical problems related to implementing a Voice over IP system. Location Room GB244, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 University of Toronto Map http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ http://www.mapquest.com/cgi-bin/share?s3q281x1gbqexvim TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:36:49 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:36:49 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: <20050509162003.GM2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> <20050509162003.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/9/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I actually wonder what makes it the fc3 version of glibc 2.3.5? > > In the past redhat had released incompatible libc versions. Do they > still do that or is this just an issue of a glibc2.1 program doesn't > like 2.3? I'd expect this to be a matter of the latter. There were quite a number of proprietary applications that got compiled to use internal bits of GLIBC 2.0 (Oracle Database comes to mind) where when things changed in 2.1, this caused some trouble. I fully expect the problem to be that it is NOT good enough to have a library that claims/feigns seeming-compatibility with the desired LIBC; the application probably depends on bugs that exist in the REQUIRED version of LIBC. This may mean you have to install an old distribution version in order to get the application to work. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:22:25 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:22:25 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050509154421.GJ2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <20050508163049.GA24335@xtrinsic.net> <20050509154421.GJ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/9/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Besides the Debian sarge installer is not that hard to use. More importantly, if there's someone there who finds the Debian installer easy to use, that makes it irrelevant that some people might find it off-putting... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 16:53:45 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:53:45 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050509162333.GN2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050509162333.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050509165345.GB3246@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 12:23:33PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 05:29:12PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > Agree with Allen, and disagree with Steve. Slackware is the easiest > > one to install, because usually you install everything from the CD > > to harddisk (3GB). Slackware has no concept of "workstation", > > "desktop", "server", or "expert" themes, which, quite honestly, I > > don't fully understand why Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, and SuSe > > continue to perpetrate. > > Debian installs a minimal system, after which you can ask it to > install whatever you need. Much saner than install everything first > and remove later. > > Of course if you don't know what you need, then why are you using a > computer? :) I don't need now, but I may need later. When I do need it, I want it on my fingertips ready to go. Downloading or inserting CD /everytime/ I need some program is "premature optimization" in my opinion. Someone has been thinking too much. I'm not going to quibble about 256MB minimal install vs. 6GB full install. This is not USB key where space is limited. This is 200GB modern harddisk. If you can't afford decent harddisk, then it's another issue... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 17:19:55 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 13:19:55 -0400 Subject: Packaging systems (was: What about post-installfest support?) In-Reply-To: <1115658502l.4224l.0l-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> <1115658502l.4224l.0l@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050509171955.GA25940@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 05:08:22PM +0000, Craig Routledge wrote: >Of course, I would not recommend a non-techie new user compile from source >unless using a system like emerge. But then, performance for most common >applications (mail, web browsing, word processing) is constrained by disk >and other I/O, not CPU. So compiling for CPU optimization isn't a >noticable gain in many cases. I would disagree with the sentiment that compiling from source is too difficult for new users. When I first installed Linux, my first success was to compile ALSA to get my sound card working. I remember the thrill of accomplishment when I heard Linus' voice for the first time (explaining how to pronounce "Linux"), and that was a big reason I eventually wiped Windoze off my systems and went to completely Open Source OSes. Don't steal all the little victories from people - they will not likely thank you. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:44:21 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:44:21 -0400 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: <20050508163049.GA24335-MHIYrZpDPrPk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> <20050508163049.GA24335@xtrinsic.net> Message-ID: <20050509154421.GJ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 12:30:49PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Mepis has been *excellent* to me. www.mepis.com with very little effort > you can go from Live CD to installed OS. The live CD has a button on the > desktop that says, "Install Mepis to my computer" (or something to that > effect). Hopefully the advantages are obvious... My friend Ken has figured > out the workaround for those who don't have a bootable CD drive. > > And then once it's all up and running I just did a "dist upgrade" to get > back to Debian. (Which I know and love.) Just be aware that a number of good Debian help channels are NOT going to help you if you didn't use a debian installer that used debootstrap to setup the system, or the official installer. knoppix and even mepis to some extent leave things just a little different than a regular debian install which can cause lots of wasted time and confusion if you tell people you run Debian and it turns out you are only mostly running debian. Just something to be aware off. Besides the Debian sarge installer is not that hard to use. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:58:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:58:12 -0400 Subject: [NTL] chmod 777 /windows not enough? In-Reply-To: References: <427DF7C3.5020503@shinypinemusic.com> Message-ID: <20050509155812.GK2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 08, 2005 at 04:40:25PM +0300, Peter wrote: > Are you *sure* that you want those 'ink refill gages' which tell the > printer when to stop printing with cartridges that still have ink in > them or have just been refilled 'to prevent damage' to the cartridge > (that needs replacement anyway) ? The chip reseter for the epson's are very handy, since the estimate of how much ink it has and has used is terribly inaccurate. Easily pays for itself after 2 or 3 cartridges have been reset. My dad has been very happy with his (he seems to print enough to go through 20 or 30 ink cartridges in a year (seperate per color of course so like 6 or 7 sets colour and a bunch of black) and about one printer per year since the heads just don't seem to stay lasting forever). As for drivers, gimpprint driver is supperb for the epson inkjets. > I feel that someone has been doing an excellent advertising work. The ink level guages certainly are useless. On the other hand a solid ink printer (The real phaser printers, not the phaser laser printers) have a great way to check how much ink is left. Just look down the ink hole and see if there is room for another brick yet. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 15:36:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:36:47 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505070323.40518.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 03:23:39AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private LAN > where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a replacement for a > 10Mbps I had. > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder if the > switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the problem? So what type of network cards? Are you sure the cables are working? I highly doubt IPv6 has anything to do with it, since a switch doesn't even work at a high enough layer to understand any version of IP. > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a hard > understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards quickly > any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they don't > support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device is not > working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy just cut the > line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just a guess). You were about to ruin his average call length. Can't have that when the measure of how good you are is how many calls you can get through in an hour (apparently measuring customer satisfaction and actual problems solved is much too hard, and difficult so show how you are saving money with. If you handle more calls per hour, obviously you are being more efficient and saving money (hey if they call back about the same problem, it's a new call and someone else's problem right?). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 19:37:33 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 15:37:33 -0400 Subject: installfest distros In-Reply-To: <20050509165345.GB3246-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427E4D8B.2050209@sympatico.ca> <20050508204736.GA30718@thecat.localnet> <20050508210841.GA31903@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> <20050508212912.GA1989@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050509162333.GN2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050509165345.GB3246@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050509193733.GO2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 12:53:45PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I don't need now, but I may need later. When I do need it, I want it on > my fingertips ready to go. Downloading or inserting CD /everytime/ I > need some program is "premature optimization" in my opinion. Someone > has been thinking too much. But apt-get install packagename is so handy. Besides you can't install postfix, qmail and exim at the same time. They provide the same filenames in many cases (like mail and sendmail commands). until you want a mail server, how will you know which to install? Besides why bother needing to download security fixes for all the stuff you don't use. If it's not installed you won't have to, and when you install it, it will get the fixed version in the first place. > I'm not going to quibble about 256MB minimal install vs. 6GB full > install. This is not USB key where space is limited. This is 200GB > modern harddisk. > > If you can't afford decent harddisk, then it's another issue... I don't want a million things running to worry about securing and wasting ram. And I don't want to have to download updates for them all whenever they come out. That's a waste of time, moreso than the time it takes to download the programs I need. As for CD/DVD, who uses those other than the first install? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 19:47:02 2005 From: webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 19:47:02 +0000 Subject: Packaging systems (was: What about post-installfest support?) In-Reply-To: <20050509171955.GA25940-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> (from william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org on Mon May 9 13:19:55 2005) References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> <1115658502l.4224l.0l@localhost.localdomain> <20050509171955.GA25940@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1115668022l.17781l.0l@localhost.localdomain> > On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 05:08:22PM +0000, Craig Routledge wrote: > > Of course, I would not recommend a non-techie new user compile > > from source unless using a system like emerge. On 05/09/2005 01:19:55 PM, William O'Higgins wrote: > I would disagree with the sentiment that compiling from source is too > difficult for new users. When I first installed Linux, my first success > was to compile ALSA to get my sound card working. I remember the thrill > of accomplishment when I heard Linus' voice for the first time > (explaining how to pronounce "Linux"), and that was a big reason I > eventually wiped Windoze off my systems and went to completely Open > Source OSes. Don't steal all the little victories from people - they > will not likely thank you. I did not mean to imply that it was too hard. My sentiment was for *non-techies* who have no interest in little victories but just want to use applications on their computer. There is a whole world of people out there that want to do as little as possible with regard to setup and updates. For those inclined to learn more -- by all means, go for it. Encouraging that is good, but I wouldn't recommend giving them a system that absoletely requires it unless you know that's what they want. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 20:36:12 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 13:36:12 -0700 Subject: installfest support In-Reply-To: References: <427DB122.8040106@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050509203612.GC22663@unleashed.org> Colin Smillie (csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) [050508 14:51]: > On 5/8/05, David J Patrick wrote: > I've never attended or read about an installfest before. Is the goal > to take the users PC and install Linux for them? Or do they install > linux themselves and agree to the choices/risks as outlined by the > distribution they choose? I was thinking the installfest would be > somewhere where you get assistance installing linux yourself ( > possibly with someone watching/assisting ) and many of the risks above > would be limited. This is the decision of the installee. I've seen everything from people who wanted someone else to do the driving while they watched and asked questions to people installing entirely themselves and maybe asking one or two questions here or there. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 20:40:17 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 13:40:17 -0700 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050509151411.GF2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <20050509151411.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050509204016.GD22663@unleashed.org> Lennart Sorensen (lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) [050509 08:14]: > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 03:14:22PM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I > > hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. > > If it is a laser printer it makes sense. How else do you keep it warm > if you don't print a page once in a while? The bed has to be kept warm > after all. *sigh* One day a tail is going to get caught in the scanner, I just know it. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 20:47:11 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 16:47:11 -0400 Subject: OT :Cats In-Reply-To: <20050509204016.GD22663-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <20050509151411.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050509204016.GD22663@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <427FCC4F.9050204@sympatico.ca> Leah Cunningham wrote: >Lennart Sorensen (lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) [050509 08:14]: > > >>On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 03:14:22PM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: >> >> >>>Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I >>>hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. >>> >>> >>If it is a laser printer it makes sense. How else do you keep it warm >>if you don't print a page once in a while? The bed has to be kept warm >>after all. >> >> > >*sigh* One day a tail is going to get caught in the scanner, I just >know it. > > > my cat has couldn't care less about the thinkpad, but has mastered the VCR! tapes go in, tapes come out, power on, power off.. repeat ! If she could only learn how to press pause, during the commercials, I'd be more thrilled. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 20:51:16 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:51:16 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505071658.56612.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200505091651.16325.marc@lijour.net> On Saturday 07 May 2005 23:31, Joseph Kubik wrote: > 1. what are the IP addresses of the 3 computers? > 2. Can you ping from one computer to any other? > -Joseph- not anymore when I put the new switch > > On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On Saturday 07 May 2005 12:11, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > What model netgear? > > > > It is a NetGEAR FS608v2. > > > > > The netgear is only looking at ethernet frames, not the ip packets. (we > > > hope) > > > > > > What model ethernet cards are they? > > > > I run amd64 with a K8VSE motherboard. The eth card is integrated. > > This is what I get from the logs (with the current working switch > > installed-not the NetGear one) : > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: Yukon Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T > > Adapter > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: PrefPort:A RlmtMode:Check Link State > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: $Rev: 1224 $ Ben Collins > > > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth1394: eth1: IEEE-1394 IPv4 over 1394 > > Ethernet (fw-host0) > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 17 > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: eth0: network connection up using port A > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: speed: 10 > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: autonegotiation: yes > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: duplex mode: half > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: flowctrl: none > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: irq moderation: disabled > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: scatter-gather: enabled > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: tx-checksum: enabled > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-checksum: enabled > > May 5 22:03:37 io kernel: rx-polling: enabled > > > > On the other end, the router has a eepro100 based card. > > > > If the thing is based on ethernet frames as it probably should. You > > should not need IP and netmask. > > > > A question. > > Is there some incompatibility issues with IPv6 and standard switches? > > Both my cards have IPv6 (+ a std IP). And if you look at the log below my > > ethernet card complains it does not find an IPv6 router. > > > > eth-cpu1 ------------+ (link ok for my router) > > switch | > > port 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > > > > eth-cpu2 ---------------+ | (link ok for my amd64 Desktop) > > eth-cpu2 -----------------+ (Windows does not show the link) > > > > (When I say link shows, it means green light, and sometimes quick > > flashing seems -for me- to indicate the switch tries to do something). > > > > From the NetGEAR switch documentation the port are auto-sensing. But I > > use all straight cables. > > I use this NetGEAR in REPLACEMENT of another switch which WORKS > > perfectly. > > > > Also, that is worth noting, the windows box does not show the link with > > the NetGEAR switch but it does with the current switch. That's puzzling > > for me! > > > > > In light of my pretty little picture, what ports are etach cpu plugged > > > into? what color are the lights on each side of each port? > > > what are the IP's of the two cards that can't talk? oh, and netmasks. > > > > > > And, what is the error you are getting? > > > > When I plug the NetGEAR switch in lieu and place of the current one while > > the setup is working, I get no connection. When I restart the network > > service I get errors. > > > > See the log below. > > > > My Desktop says this when I restart the connection: > > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > > > speed: 100 > > > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > And the router fails to start the connection on its end when I restart > > the network service.. > > > > > -Joseph- > > > > > > On 5/7/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > On Friday 06 May 2005 19:39, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > > > eth0 no ipv6 routers present: > > > > > There are no routers on your IPv6 broadcast domain that speak > > > > > Internet Protocal Version 6. > > > > > > > > > > Don't worry about it. > > > > > > > > > > What problem are you having with your switch? > > > > > -Joseph- > > > > > > > > Hi Joseph > > > > > > > > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the > > > > private LAN where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as > > > > a replacement for a 10Mbps I had. > > > > > > > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > > > > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I > > > > wonder if the switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that > > > > explain the problem? > > > > > > > > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to > > > > have a hard understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he > > > > discards quickly any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells > > > > me that they don't support Linux. It is written on the box Linux > > > > compatible, my device is not working, and that does not seem to > > > > bother him a little. The guy just cut the line and moves to the next > > > > customer (that last part is just a guess). > > > > > > > > > On 5/6/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > > > I have bought a 8-port 100Mbps switch FS608v2 which is not > > > > > > working and the guy hangs on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Messages are: > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0: network connection up using port A > > > > > > speed: 100 > > > > > > autonegotiation: yes > > > > > > duplex mode: full > > > > > > flowctrl: symmetric > > > > > > irq moderation: disabled > > > > > > scatter-gather: enabled > > > > > > tx-checksum: enabled > > > > > > rx-checksum: enabled > > > > > > rx-polling: enabled > > > > > > eth0: no IPv6 routers present > > > > > > > > > > > > What is this last line? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 20:53:17 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:53:17 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <20050509153647.GH2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200505091653.17176.marc@lijour.net> On Monday 09 May 2005 11:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 03:23:39AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I have a classical set up with a home build router a DMZ and the private > > LAN where the switch is. I just bought this 100Mbps switch as a > > replacement for a 10Mbps I had. > > > > When I plug it in it just does not work. I see the link LED on, fine. > > Now because my eth card here is set up with both a IP and IPv6 I wonder > > if the switch tries to discard anything but IPv6. Could that explain the > > problem? > > So what type of network cards? Are you sure the cables are working? This switch is a replacement for another one. I plug it in: the network is down. I plug the older one back in: the network is up. > I highly doubt IPv6 has anything to do with it, since a switch doesn't > even work at a high enough layer to understand any version of IP. Confirmation from NetGEAR. I don't understand either but there is an error message. > > > I am pretty disappointed with NetGEAR. First the tech guy seems to have a > > hard understanding what the router is and where it is. Then he discards > > quickly any technical info I can give him. Finally he tells me that they > > don't support Linux. It is written on the box Linux compatible, my device > > is not working, and that does not seem to bother him a little. The guy > > just cut the line and moves to the next customer (that last part is just > > a guess). > > You were about to ruin his average call length. Can't have that when > the measure of how good you are is how many calls you can get through in > an hour (apparently measuring customer satisfaction and actual problems > solved is much too hard, and difficult so show how you are saving money > with. If you handle more calls per hour, obviously you are being more > efficient and saving money (hey if they call back about the same > problem, it's a new call and someone else's problem right?). Ok. I should take it less personnally then :-) > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 21:16:34 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 17:16:34 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard... In-Reply-To: References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> <20050509162003.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <427FD332.9050906@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >On 5/9/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >>I actually wonder what makes it the fc3 version of glibc 2.3.5? >> >>In the past redhat had released incompatible libc versions. Do they >>still do that or is this just an issue of a glibc2.1 program doesn't >>like 2.3? >> >> > >I'd expect this to be a matter of the latter. > >There were quite a number of proprietary applications that got >compiled to use internal bits of GLIBC 2.0 (Oracle Database comes to >mind) where when things changed in 2.1, this caused some trouble. > >I fully expect the problem to be that it is NOT good enough to have a >library that claims/feigns seeming-compatibility with the desired >LIBC; the application probably depends on bugs that exist in the >REQUIRED version of LIBC. > >This may mean you have to install an old distribution version in order >to get the application to work. > > I ran in to this bug myself with old Loki games. The best I could track down was a kernel version problem. Something like one of the newer kernels broke something badly. The reason I say this is because for one of the games (forget which one) it turned out that the kernel that FC3 shipped with worked, but any newer ones didn't. Something like that. One possible solution is to VMWare an old Linux distro. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 22:06:23 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 01:06:23 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Installfest In-Reply-To: <427F9A1A.6000001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> <427F7ECC.4090804@sympatico.ca> <427F9A1A.6000001@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 May 2005, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> By the same token, if we set up a lot of new linux users, without >> considering their support environment, many will get lost , frustrated, >> waste a lot of time, give up, run back to the borg, and never come back. Simple facts: - there exist no complex systems that do not need support - the 'easy configuration' of the borg equipment is a myth. One week later, guess who is visiting the computer shop down the corner to remove popup ads and viruses - oops, $50 (at least) - most advanced equipment allows remote support. This includes the borg equipment. So, you should set up things such that you can dial into a user's computer and help him. Sending the wrong output from running the wrong program with the wrong arguments to an impatient mailing list is not a solution, it is a new problem. So if you are serious about this, imho, try to make sure that new users have their machines set up to the 'network works' stage and promise them remote administration. And implement that using linux's excellent network capabilities. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 9 23:30:42 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 19:30:42 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <20050509153647.GH2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200505091930.42145.marc@lijour.net> I got the switch working. However there is a problem: (extract from #service network start) May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using interface eth0/00:A0:C9:39:DB:80 with driver (version: eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29 /99 Don) May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Initialization complete, link beat not detected. May 9 18:45:22 router network: Bringing up interface eth0: failed ifplugd monitors eth0 on this system (well, I learnt something today!). But it fails seeing the link beat and shuts down my card. But is works with the other card working with the 8139too driver. May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. May 9 18:31:39 router kernel: eth2: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa 0x0000 May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using interface eth2/00:60:67:72:4F:EE with driver <8139too> (version: 0.9.27) May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Initialization complete, link beat detected. May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Executing '/etc/ifplugd/ifplugd.action eth2 up'. May 9 18:31:41 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Program executed successfully. May 9 18:31:41 router network: Bringing up interface eth2: succeeded Now my next question is: how do I disable nicely ifplugd? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 00:43:24 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 20:43:24 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050509151411.GF2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <20050509151411.GF2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428003AC.3070107@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2005 at 03:14:22PM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > >>Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I >>hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. > > > If it is a laser printer it makes sense. How else do you keep it warm > if you don't print a page once in a while? The bed has to be kept warm > after all. I hope mine doesn't take an interest in the scanner. I wouldn't want him to do any cat scans. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:33:31 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 21:33:31 -0400 Subject: Installfest In-Reply-To: <427F9A1A.6000001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115650022.9173.37.camel@localhost> <427F7ECC.4090804@sympatico.ca> <427F9A1A.6000001@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1115688811.13094.25.camel@localhost> > As Leah pointed out in response to my general call for post-install > support, the wiki is a good place to start. I should think that as far > as support is concerned, there exists enough information that can be > easily compiled into a list on the wiki. There is no need to charge for > additional support. I think that the whole idea of an installfest should > include post-install support through already existing channels, such as > the wiki or forums (I'd be happy to donate if it would help out). To > simply dump Linux on someone's box almost guarantees that they will need > support - to then charge for it seems, IMHO, a little underhanded. In > fact, I'd say that having some form of support is really in keeping with > the FLOSS ideal and that to charge for it, especially for some kindly > "housewife kine that types a recipes on her computer and makes > scheduling for grocery runs in her outlook." I think its fair to have installfest for companies and individuals alike, free. Individuals can receive support for free, if anyone volunteers their time, to come out, or have someone show up at their place. If individual is in the office however, I'd rather charge the company then not. Whole bit about gtalug is that is mosly hobbyist linux gathering , as I see it. If companies want free labour .. I think they will have to provide something in return. > Why not support someone like this? I'm willing to do it, even with my > limited abilibty. Sure it may be below some people, but I'd say an > effective way to encourage people in large numbers to switch and stay > with Linux is to offer ourselves up as role models. To be willing to > embrace all levels of users instead of treating them to the elitism and > haughtiness that they think we have when it comes to Linux is a > necessary component of getting the word out there. I for one am quite > willing to help out with a late night ssh session. There is no elitism, just meritocracy. Someone must want to learn. They must grasp every bit of knowledge as a diamond and refine upon it. Experiment with it. If they want an equivalent of toaster, a computer appliance they can get ubuntu, we'll even install it for them. But if they expect things to work out of the box.. like digital cameras, usb sound cards that they add later, they have to go through some learning pains... Pain is growth right? They can bring the box to next meeting, and us have a whack at it. (which brings me to think about the new gtalug needing net connection for the meeting room in case something like this happens) > If people want to charge for support, well then I say FOR SHAME! I think > that for your average individual user, especially those who are being > targeted for the installfest, who may or may not be a college/university > student at that, the cost for support from any one of a group of > professionals such as we have here would be prohibitive and not in > keeping with the spirit of maintaining a positive profile for Linux > users and Linux in general. Especially so since many people will be > drawn to the installfest for the very fact that Linux is free to begin with. I don't think this is being suggested. Many of us however are coming home tired from beating computers into submission, to compile, link and execute our codes... I think support is more of exception then the rule. We shall have a framework, and if someone from gtalug wishes to help a user with a problem they can ask for phone support or have ssh being set up on their box so it is accessible from outside. There is an issue of data loss/corruption, and generally upset people if something does not work. Do they sign a waiver for support? Should such support be available only from gtalug members to gtalug members? There should be generic waiver to sign for people who sign up for gtalug and may want support form gtalug members. I don't mind fixing apache vhosts over ssh for some chap, but if they going to sue me because I misspelled their site name ... FIXME: For installfest make generic waiver for computers that are coming in... and for future support. > It might do us well to go back and try to remember what it is like being > a newbie. What would you expect in such a position? What might your > needs be and what would you be willing to pay for support when you could > just as well go back to Windows and be done with the entire affair? Really nothing beats RTFMing. Seriously, along the way of reading man page you find out other tricks the command can do... one by one knowlege collects. If you aren't interested no one else will do that for you. Having man & info tutorial on site is great idea imo. Have list of commands be printed and off they go. People take risks, thats life. If they can't grasp linux they probably shouldn't be using it... They should be able to understand Ubuntu, however. We shall not worry that other people don't understand linux. We can just give people tools to be persistent with and them run with it. We can help out along the way. We can't be persistent for them. later, Pavel things to do: * make a waiver (vlug has one, maybe we should use theirs?) * room with net access for meetings ( have some people show up 20 mins early to help victim of not standard hardware ) * installfest tutorial on man, info and core command set (bash/zsh/tcsh). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:39:20 2005 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 21:39:20 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration Message-ID: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:39:48 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Info on next talk updated Message-ID: I've updated the information on the next talk on tlug.ss.org Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:47:08 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Info on next talk updated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 May 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > I've updated the information on the next talk on tlug.ss.org Now the link on the main page is fixed I can indicate the url: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php/Meetings:2005-05 Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:47:49 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:47:49 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <001b01c55502$5765c4b0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> > Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? > -- > Sincerely, > Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 Try www.look.ca Go to their Business section. $19.95 for a year. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From torontonian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 01:53:41 2005 From: torontonian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stuart Williams) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:53:41 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration In-Reply-To: <001b01c55502$5765c4b0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <001b01c55502$5765c4b0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <49aa37ca0505091853584b94b6@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/05, Francois Ouellette > wrote: > > > Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? > > -- > > Sincerely, > > Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 I'm actually in the same boat as you, and coincidentally purchasing my first .ca tonight. I chose to go with baremetal.com : $14.95CDN/year, and they have excellent reviews over at webhostingtalk.com Stuart Williams -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 02:00:25 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:00:25 -0400 Subject: Going Down Hard...RESOLVED In-Reply-To: <20050509162003.GM2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <427D831C.1020907@execulink.com> <20050509162003.GM2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428015B9.6080909@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 11:10:20PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > >>I have an old linux game I can't get working. I've installed and patched >>but it won't run. This is the only clue I have: >> >>BUG! (Segmentation Fault) Going down hard... >>Railroad Tycoon II 1.54c >>Built with glibc-2.1 on x86 >>Stack dump: >>{ >> 0x818783e >> 0x8166ac4 >> 0x816692b >> 0x816080d >> 0x816098e >> 0x81578f1 >> 0x814fec9 >> 0x814ffa8 >> 0x8048373 >> 0x820037d >> 0x8048111 >>} >> >>I'm trying to run it on Fedora Core 3 and my glibc is 2.3.5-0.fc3.1. I >>also have installed the nvidia driver which required commenting out load >>"dri" in xorg.conf if that means anything. Google has not been my friend >>with this. I haven't tried to install this game since RH9. > > > I actually wonder what makes it the fc3 version of glibc 2.3.5? > I believe fc3 is the short form of a four letter word. > In the past redhat had released incompatible libc versions. Do they > still do that or is this just an issue of a glibc2.1 program doesn't > like 2.3? > > Check if the rt program is just a shell script and if so find the real > executable and see if ldd works on it. > You were somewhat correct. /usr/local/games/RT2/rt2 is the static binary but for the game to run per the instructions I found, I needed to use the dynamic binary in the same directory rt2.dynamic. There was also a link in /usr/local/bin pointing to the static rt2. > Are you running the latest version of it? > > ftp://sunsite.dk/mirrors/lokigames/updates/rt2/ has the patches to go to > latest version. > > It does look like you are running the latest. > > There is also some stuff about loki and segfaulting here: > http://goldenfiles.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=lokipatchfix&type=readme > > Also this site has a list of hints on running old loki games on current > systems (ubuntu in their case): > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21087 > > Apparently a common one is: LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 game_to_run > > Also here: http://members.shaw.ca/dan.mckay/LokiInst.html > > Lennart Sorensen > -- I would like to thank you all for the replies. And although I've considered them all, it was this one that steered me down the right track. From the ubuntuforum I googled and clicked some more until http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/33/2005/02/4/276090 where I found the solution. I needed a package - smjpeg-0.2.1-0.1.fc3.rf.i386.rpm A symlink - ln -s /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 libSDL-1.1.so.0 in the installation directory. And this command - LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$PWD ./rt2.dynamic run from the installation directory. Thanks Lennart and tlug for putting me on the right track, ha ha. I really need to learn how to google better. farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 02:47:55 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:47:55 -0400 Subject: What about post-installfest support? In-Reply-To: <427F80B6.1090603-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427C4560.6020705@sympatico.ca> <20050507203911.GA14845@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050510024755.GA21867@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 11:24:38AM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote > I would suggest that if you're asking these kinds of questions you > perhaps lack the necessary breadth of experience to make a solid > recommendation on distros. Correct, except for Redhat and Gentoo. I did use Debian for a while, but drifted away last summer. The "stable" versions of GTK and other libs were so old that Fire-bird/fox and RealPlayer refused to install. I tried CRUX, which is a light semi-Gentoo. Then I figured I might as well go whole-hog with Gentoo. I used Redhat a lot from about 6.2 to 7.3 (tried 8.0 and 9.0 but backed out). Redhat's RPMs were a pain if you wanted to to do a build with a lot of dependancies - rpm_a failed due to lack of b and c - I could load rpm_b, but c failed due to lack of d and e - eventually, by writing down all the missing dependancies, you could load the missing rpms, and get it to work. Hopefully, Redhat (Fedora) has that problem solved now. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 02:50:03 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:50:03 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem Message-ID: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> In an effort to back up a DVD I am trying to make an ISO, which I would later burn. I am running into a problem with mkisofs, and Google has not helped me. The first command I tried was this: % mkisofs -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ And the output of that is this: INFO: UTF-8 character encoding detected by locale settings. Assuming UTF-8 encoded filenames on source filesystem, use -input-charset to override. mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. This indicates that it is assuming UTF-8, and will continue, then I dies. Still, I tried this: % mkisofs -input-charset iso8859-1 -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ Which gave me the much more terse: mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. So there's something wrong, but mkisofs is not being very helpful here. Anyone have any ideas? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 02:57:46 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:57:46 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510025003.GA28735-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200505092257.46838.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 9, 2005 10:50 pm, William O'Higgins wrote: > In an effort to back up a DVD I am trying to make an ISO, which I would > later burn. I am running into a problem with mkisofs, and Google has > not helped me. > > The first command I tried was this: > > % mkisofs -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ > > And the output of that is this: > > INFO: UTF-8 character encoding detected by locale settings. > Assuming UTF-8 encoded filenames on source filesystem, > use -input-charset to override. > mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. > > This indicates that it is assuming UTF-8, and will continue, then I > dies. Still, I tried this: > > % mkisofs -input-charset iso8859-1 -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ > > Which gave me the much more terse: > > mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. > > So there's something wrong, but mkisofs is not being very helpful here. > Anyone have any ideas? If the total disk space is below 4.4gb then take a look at this http://dvd-create.sourceforge.net/ to backup the dvd to disk, then use growisofs to make the .iso http://dvd-create.sourceforge.net/dvdbackup-readme.html Use lxdvdrip if it over 4.4gb http://developer.berlios.de/projects/lxdvdrip/ lxdvdrip will automate grabbing, compression of the video files, and making the .iso, then burning the iso. If you do not want to burn it, then do not configure that part of the config file. /etc/lxdvdrip.conf -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 03:50:51 2005 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 23:50:51 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration In-Reply-To: <1115689160.24822.6.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 09:39:20PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? > -- I've used www.lowcostdomains.ca for a few domains. Good price and no problems so far with service. Good Luck, Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 04:22:27 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 00:22:27 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets Message-ID: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that sells boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 04:32:32 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 00:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <200505100022.27761.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that sells > boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? One place that usually carries them -- haven't checked whether they have Pro 9.3 in stock -- is the U of T Computer Store (a wing of the bookstore), at St. George & College. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 05:21:20 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 01:21:20 -0400 Subject: Packaging systems (was: What about post-installfest support?) In-Reply-To: <1115658502l.4224l.0l-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> <1115658502l.4224l.0l@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200505100121.21180.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On May 9, 2005 13:08, Craig Routledge wrote: > > Walter Dnes wrote: > > > What's the Suse or Fedora or Debian equivalant of saying > > > "emerge mplayer"? The Mandrake/Mandriva equivalent is urpmi mplayer. > On 05/09/2005 11:24:38 AM, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > With both SuSE and Fedora, you'd probably install it initially. Debian > > uses apt, which is similar in functionality to emerge. > > Just because I see this getting asked all the time.... > > rpm is to deb as yum is to apt, so: rpm is to deb as urpmi is to apt-get The laptop I am using now started out with Mandrake 10 CE (Community Edition) and has been upgraded three times to its current 10.1 OE (Official Edition). The next stop is 2005 LE. I have taken other 10.1 OE machines to Mandriva LE (Limited Edition) 2005 which is a transitional release to a distro that will more fully reflect the influence and contributions of both Mandrake and Connnectiva. To upgrade a Mandrake/Mandriva system from one release to another: 1. urpmi.removemedia -a to remove all existing urpmi repositories 2. Go to and select the version, architecture, and mirrors you want. 3. Copy/paste the urpmi.addmedia statements that the form generates into a root shell and execute. 4. urpmi --auto-select and let urpmi figure out how to upgrade from where you are currently to where you want to be. urpmi is smart enough to upgrade itself first, if necessary, and then restart the upgrade with the latest version of urpmi. N.B.: thhis does NOT upgrade kernels. You have to explicitly urpmi the kernel and pick which kernel you want to install. It will take care of making the changes to the bootloader. > yum install package-name > > works on Fedora and resolves all dependencies. There are also graphical > front-ends, although I haven't used them myself. urpmi also has a GUI front end, though the command line is much faster. Speaking of much faster, I have noticed that urpmi seems to be faster than yum, though I have not investigated what the bottleneck is. > RPM is not an apt equivalent, and it isn't supposed to act at that level. > So comparing the two just causes confusion and isn't relevant. Agreed, but it does not stop the ignorant or partisans from trying. I have had Debian based systems but saw no advantage over Mandrake but several disadvantages, one being that "unstable" is where I needed to be to have the versions of software I needed but I am not comfortable running "unstable" for production machines as the level of testing, by definition, is not as high as it would be for stable, which tends to have geriatric versions of most things. > The big gotcha on Fedora, is that some packages such as mplayer are not > included for legal reasons. (Similar to debian non-free) Packages in > these grey areas can be found on repositories such as freshrpms, DAG, and > the like. > > > > How many people with Suse or Fedora or Debian have managed to get > > > mplayer running? Mandrake has the PLF (Penguin Liberation Front) repositories for this. urpmi mplayer was all it took to install mplayer. > Raises hand. Although on slower machines, I have compiled from source to > try and optimize mplayer. My current machine is no speed demon, but is > fast enough that I just use the binary packages. > > Of course, I would not recommend a non-techie new user compile from source > unless using a system like emerge. But then, performance for most common > applications (mail, web browsing, word processing) is constrained by disk > and other I/O, not CPU. So compiling for CPU optimization isn't a > noticable gain in many cases. With RPM based systems, "compiling from source" is only a matter of building the source RPM. Mandriva RPMs are already optimized for i586 anyway so I doubt there is much, if any, advantage in building SRPMs for performance reasons. I have found Mandrake/Mandriva's urpmi to be a very sophisticated package management system. Creating one's own custom urpmi repository is dead easy. We have one at Dinamis in order to automatically install/upgrade software that we have packaged (in some cases, written), or non-free software, like the Sun JDK, that we have had to build ourselves due to licensing restrictions. Jpackage.org provides SRPMs for various RPM based distros for Java related packages. Once the binary RPMs have been created, we can put them on our own private urpmi repository and simply do: urpmi sun-jdk for example, to install the Sun JDK on a Mandrake based system. Provided the urpmi repository has been set up properly, the PGP keys used to sign packages would be automatically imported when the urpmi.addmedia is done so the PGP signatures of packages would be checked upon install or upgrade. Unlike bare rpm, urpmi will ask the user, with a default of "N", if the PGP key for a given package cannot be found in the RPM PGP key database. All users of RPM based systems using bare RPM commands have encountered the dreaded "I need libfoo.so.4" problem when attempting to install something where it may not be obvious which package contains libfoo.so.4. With urpmi: urpmf libfoo.so.4 will search the headers for the various packages for the configured urpmi sources and find all packages that contain that file regardless of whether the packages are installed or not. Say it returns: libbar-3.6-1mdk.rpm. I would type: urpmi libbar That would fetch, verify, prompt for any dependencies, and install the rpm(s). I would then urpmi the original package that triggered the dependency. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 09:36:40 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:36:40 +0800 Subject: clearing cache? Message-ID: <200505101736.40097.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, my system is crawling.. i think my culprit is my memory.. i was wondering if i can lower cache manually.. based on free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 1030216 1020576 9640 0 31840 4294953828 -/+ buffers/cache: 18014394215516892 4294995308 Swap: 2048248 654612 1393636 based on top Mem: 1030216k av, 1019500k used, 10716k free, 0k shrd, 32236k buff 87276k actv, 23056k in_d, 10736k in_c Swap: 2048248k av, 660076k used, 1388172k free 4294962216k cached hmm i dont think its normal... tia, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 12:57:13 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:57:13 -0400 Subject: Free Java (was Database for "average" users) In-Reply-To: <1115643322.28398.23.camel-Ty44UuN9vPIHc6C1GOO+uXyA94PN7R7FkemgU0Nths7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <369673E8-B992-11D9-9BF6-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <4273CA68.5040606@sympatico.ca> <1115643322.28398.23.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/05, Andrew Cowie wrote: > On Sun, 2005-01-05 at 21:25 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > A fair number of the extensions getting added to OpenOffice.org seem > > to be Java apps, and the ability to include Java in Linux > > distributions is still pretty spotty. > > That is decreasingly accurate. > > > I don't see any JDK available for Debian other than in the non-free > > section > > Debian being the only significant exception. RHEL, Fedora, Gentoo, etc > all have Java easy to use in the mainline distro. They all include Java in their set of packages? Nonsense. Sun forbids that. Perhaps you should read the license some time; it expressly forbids third parties to do that. The situation for ALL distributions for the handling of Sun's JDK/JRE is just the same as it is for Debian, and it has been thus for years. JDK/JRE belongs to Sun, and Linux distribution makers are not permitted to include it in their distributions. The Debian guys happen to tell truth about it: "It isn't free software, and we cannot include it in the distribution because we are not permitted to redistribute it." The same is true for everyone else. Look at the Gentoo Java Guide, for instance... http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/java.xml "If you run emerge =sun-jdk-1.4.2.06 or =ibm-jdk-bin-1.4.2, you will be notified that you are required to download the actual tarballs yourself. This has to do with license restrictions for the Sun JRE/JDK (online click-wrap license) and registration issues with the IBM JRE/JDK." Fedora includes neither Sun JDK nor JRE. http://www.fedorafaq.org/custom_java.html In order to install it, you have to... "Download the JPackage Java 1.5.0 Source RPM. Click on the link that looks something like "java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0.03-1jpp.src.rpm." Then, on the next page, pick where you want to download the file from. This should download the package to your home directory." Presumably the list could continue. I did a build of JDK on FreeBSD; that, too, required downloading the JDK directly from Sun. It was not "included" in FreeBSD. > > , and I haven't seen much indication of alternatives to Sun's > > implementation being widely usable for general purposes. > > [And, although it's not free by Debian's definition (the problem mostly > being restrictions around redistribution), Sun's JVM is nevertheless > freely available, and works VERY well, thank you very much. For a large > footprint, long running, heavy load server instance I wouldn't choose > anything but.] It's not "free enough" that anyone has seen fit to include it on install CDs. It would violate license agreements to include it on Knoppix CDs. > As for free java, it is a reality, and it works quite well for most > situations. In particular, GCJ's ability to compile to native > executables is brilliant. Does it support Java 1.5 yet? Does it include Swing? I understand that it doesn't yet support AWT, which presumably puts it WAY behind the curve on supporting Swing. Will it run Eclipse? > > There are a > > bunch of alternative JVMs, but only spotty coverage of Java classes. > > That is also inaccurate. Um. AWT? Swing? > A significant issue for any Java implementation is compatibility, and > I'm pleased to report the observation that those doing third party Java > implementations have been *very* scrupulous to stick to the defined Java > standard. > > GCJ 3.4 gets to "rather good" and the recently released GCJ 4.0 (part of > GCC 4.0) has outstanding coverage and compatibility and indeed can quite > rightly claim to be a 1.4.2 JDK. That's nice; It's unfortunate that people are already moving to 1.5... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 13:13:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:13:34 -0400 Subject: Beware: NetGEAR hangs up on customers and does not support Linux! In-Reply-To: <200505091653.17176.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200505091653.17176.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20050510131334.GP2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 04:53:17PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > This switch is a replacement for another one. > I plug it in: the network is down. > I plug the older one back in: the network is up. Well your switch might be DOA. It does happen. What happens if you go connect some completely different machines to it (liek at a friends place)? Just to rule out it doesn't just hate your machines/network cards/cables. > Confirmation from NetGEAR. > I don't understand either but there is an error message. The message about IPv6 is NOT an error message, simply a notice (from the kernel). > Ok. I should take it less personnally then :-) Yep. Call centers don't pay well, and is apparently considered just an expense by many large companies. The service level they provide seems to show it too. People that actually care about customers don't tend to last very long as they are obviously taking way too long on each call. Someone I know that used to do this could tell from the call logs that many people would simply ask the person to do something which would make windows insist on a reboot, and ask the person to call back after the reboot, hence making it some other call person's problem. The change / reboot never was intended to solve anything given the problem described by the caller. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 13:14:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:14:54 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <200505091930.42145.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200505091930.42145.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20050510131454.GQ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:30:42PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I got the switch working. > However there is a problem: > > (extract from #service network start) > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using interface > eth0/00:A0:C9:39:DB:80 with driver (version: eepro100.c:v1.09j-t > 9/29 > /99 Don) > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Initialization complete, link > beat not detected. > May 9 18:45:22 router network: Bringing up interface eth0: failed > > ifplugd monitors eth0 on this system (well, I learnt something today!). > But it fails seeing the link beat and shuts down my card. > > But is works with the other card working with the 8139too driver. > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > May 9 18:31:39 router kernel: eth2: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa 0x0000 > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using interface > eth2/00:60:67:72:4F:EE with driver <8139too> (version: 0.9.27) > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Initialization complete, link > beat detected. > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Executing > '/etc/ifplugd/ifplugd.action eth2 up'. > May 9 18:31:41 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Program executed successfully. > May 9 18:31:41 router network: Bringing up interface eth2: succeeded > > > Now my next question is: how do I disable nicely ifplugd? Never heard of it. Did you try e100 driver? It tends to be far superior to the crappy old eepro100 driver in my experience. Maybe ifplugd uses an interface the old driver doesn't provide or something. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:01:35 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:01:35 -0400 Subject: clearing cache? In-Reply-To: <200505101736.40097.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200505101736.40097.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050510140135.GR2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 05:36:40PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > my system is crawling.. i think my culprit is my memory.. i was wondering if i can lower cache manually.. > > based on free > > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 1030216 1020576 9640 0 31840 4294953828 > -/+ buffers/cache: 18014394215516892 4294995308 > Swap: 2048248 654612 1393636 > > based on top > > Mem: 1030216k av, 1019500k used, 10716k free, 0k shrd, 32236k buff > 87276k actv, 23056k in_d, 10736k in_c > Swap: 2048248k av, 660076k used, 1388172k free 4294962216k cached > > hmm i dont think its normal... Looks like your system is confused. I suspect whatever kernel you are running has a bug in the vm code. That number is most likely -13468 bytes since that is how far it is from 2^32. So something got confused. Time to reboot and most likely time to go find a less bugger kernel version. If it's a recent kernel version, report it to lkml too if you can gather any info on how it happend (what system was doing, uptime, etc). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:05:42 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:05:42 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <20050510131454.GQ2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505070323.40518.marc@lijour.net> <20050509153647.GH2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200505091930.42145.marc@lijour.net> <20050510131454.GQ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I don't know the details of what / why.... Here is one way to work around "erroneous" link down detection: http://www.vmware.com/support/kb/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=lyhn*3Fh&p_lva=&p_faqid=977 Good luck, -Joseph- On 5/10/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:30:42PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I got the switch working. > > However there is a problem: > > > > (extract from #service network start) > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using interface > > eth0/00:A0:C9:39:DB:80 with driver (version: eepro100.c:v1.09j-t > > 9/29 > > /99 Don) > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Initialization complete, link > > beat not detected. > > May 9 18:45:22 router network: Bringing up interface eth0: failed > > > > ifplugd monitors eth0 on this system (well, I learnt something today!). > > But it fails seeing the link beat and shuts down my card. > > > > But is works with the other card working with the 8139too driver. > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > > May 9 18:31:39 router kernel: eth2: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa 0x0000 > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using interface > > eth2/00:60:67:72:4F:EE with driver <8139too> (version: 0.9.27) > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using detection mode: SIOCGMIIPHY > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Initialization complete, link > > beat detected. > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Executing > > '/etc/ifplugd/ifplugd.action eth2 up'. > > May 9 18:31:41 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Program executed successfully. > > May 9 18:31:41 router network: Bringing up interface eth2: succeeded > > > > > > Now my next question is: how do I disable nicely ifplugd? > > Never heard of it. Did you try e100 driver? It tends to be far > superior to the crappy old eepro100 driver in my experience. Maybe > ifplugd uses an interface the old driver doesn't provide or something. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:10:49 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:10:49 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510025003.GA28735-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050510141049.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 10:50:03PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > In an effort to back up a DVD I am trying to make an ISO, which I would > later burn. I am running into a problem with mkisofs, and Google has > not helped me. > > The first command I tried was this: > > % mkisofs -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ > > And the output of that is this: > > INFO: UTF-8 character encoding detected by locale settings. > Assuming UTF-8 encoded filenames on source filesystem, > use -input-charset to override. > mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. > > This indicates that it is assuming UTF-8, and will continue, then I > dies. Still, I tried this: > > % mkisofs -input-charset iso8859-1 -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ > > Which gave me the much more terse: > > mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. > > So there's something wrong, but mkisofs is not being very helpful here. > Anyone have any ideas? I think -dvd-video only works IF the files you are using are the appropriate VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS dirs (or whatever they are called.) What kind of disc are you trying to copy? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:20:33 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:20:33 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505101020.33918.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On May 10, 2005 12:32 am, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that > > sells boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? > > One place that usually carries them -- haven't checked whether they have > Pro 9.3 in stock -- is the U of T Computer Store (a wing of the bookstore), > at St. George & College. Thanks Henry. Unfortunately, UofT is out of stock. They ordered more copies 2 weeks ago and expect to wait at least another 2 weeks (slow to deliver according to guy there). camelot.ca and amazon.ca are out of stock. We've ordered directly from Novell, probably at least 7 days before it reaches us, assuming they have stock :-( Enough to make me wonder if Novell is actually interested in selling product! They want to ship me a box with a manual I will never read and a bunch of CDs that will only be used once (in order to copy contents to NFS share). I might have to start talking my employer into Debian! -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:43:34 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:43:34 -0400 Subject: getmail question... What is a "Maildir" supposed to be??? In-Reply-To: <20050509020432.GA18895-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050509020432.GA18895@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4280C896.6040309@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Maildir's have more structure to them than just a simple directory. IIRC, there are files listing seen and unseen mail. I remember there were a couple of ways to initialize them. I bet that you could find them with a google search. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A Walter Dnes wrote: > The Gentoo packagers have decided to not include the pushkey option, so > the muttrc option... > push"G" > doesn't work. I'm trying to use getmail to pull mail. Here's a really > basic config file for testing... > > [retriever] > type = SimplePOP3Retriever > server = 127.0.0.1 > username = ******** > port = 10110 > password = ******** > > [destination] > type = Maildir > path = ~/Maildir/ > user = waltdnes > > [options] > read_all = true > delete = false > message_log = ~/.getmail/log > max_messages_per_session = 5 > > I run up a 2-line script that first sets up ssh-tunneling, and then > launches getmail. I've created a directory "Maildir" in my home > directory. The ssh session does connect, and I get the following > complaints. What is required of Maildir? > > /usr/lib/python2.3/optparse.py:668: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4 and up > return ("<%s at 0x%x: %r>" > getmail version 4.3.3 > Copyright (C) 1998-2004 Charles Cazabon. Licensed under the GNU GPL version 2. > SimplePOP3Retriever:waltdnes-savSHZN5Fh8qMp+WYRx65w at public.gmane.org:10110: > Delivery error (maildir delivery 18921 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > msg 1/175 (2792 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18921 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > Delivery error (maildir delivery 18922 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > msg 2/175 (2299 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18922 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > Delivery error (maildir delivery 18923 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > msg 3/175 (2448 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18923 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > Delivery error (maildir delivery 18924 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > msg 4/175 (3656 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18924 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > Delivery error (maildir delivery 18925 error (127, maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > msg 5/175 (10417 bytes), delivery error (maildir delivery 18925 error (127, > maildir delivery process failed (not a Maildir (/home/waltdnes/Maildir/)))) > 5 messages retrieved, 0 skipped > > The logfile looks OK. > > 2005-05-08 21:39:38 Initializing SimplePOP3Retriever:waltdnes-savSHZN5Fh8qMp+WYRx65w at public.gmane.org:10110: > 2005-05-08 21:39:38 msg 1/175 (2792 bytes) msgid 1115510207.4707.manson from > 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 2/175 (2299 bytes) msgid 1115513396.9085.manson from > 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 3/175 (2448 bytes) msgid 1115513917.9751.manson from > 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 4/175 (3656 bytes) msgid 1115515876.12248.manson from > > 2005-05-08 21:39:39 msg 5/175 (10417 bytes) msgid 1115515947.12315.manson from > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCgMiVgfzn5SevSpoRAtrUAJ4r3vGfSlGEsyy7GAs/EBJQ8X6CtwCgiqYR yMRYn9gKs9UE5hm9FWUzqpU= =LzTr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:48:31 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:48:31 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510141049.GS2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510141049.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050510144831.GA31843@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 10:10:49AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 10:50:03PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >> The first command I tried was this: >> >> % mkisofs -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ >> >> This indicates that it is assuming UTF-8, and will continue, then I >> dies. Still, I tried this: >> >> % mkisofs -input-charset iso8859-1 -dvd-video -udf -o dvd.iso /dvd/ >> >> Which gave me the much more terse: >> >> mkisofs: Unable to make a DVD-Video image. >I think -dvd-video only works IF the files you are using are the >appropriate VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS dirs (or whatever they are called.) > >What kind of disc are you trying to copy? The disc I am trying to copy is a standard movie DVD. I have directed the above commands at any and all directories/files in the trees of the initial DVD. I tried dvdbackup as well, but it is not as effective, because the resultant copies have had their copy protection stripped off (and then they don't play in DVD players reliably) - what I am looking for is a bit-for-bit copy (onto a dual layer disc if necessary). Is this possible? Are there features on a DVD that make this unworkable? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:05:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:05:48 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510144831.GA31843-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510141049.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050510144831.GA31843@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050510150548.GU2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 10:48:31AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > The disc I am trying to copy is a standard movie DVD. I have directed > the above commands at any and all directories/files in the trees of the > initial DVD. > > I tried dvdbackup as well, but it is not as effective, because the > resultant copies have had their copy protection stripped off (and then > they don't play in DVD players reliably) - what I am looking for is a > bit-for-bit copy (onto a dual layer disc if necessary). Is this > possible? Are there features on a DVD that make this unworkable? Unless you have a DVD-R(A) drive you can't even write the area of the DVD that would hold the encryption keys, so a bit for bit copy is impossible. There is a visible unwriteable area on blank DVDs right where the CSS keys would go on a commercial DVD. DVD-R(A) doesn't have that, but the discs are expensive, hard to find, and the drives cost $1000+. All modern DVD writers are DVD-R(G) [and DVD+R +RW -RW which are all general use type discs). The only way to copy a DVD movie that is encrypted is to use one of the tools that can decrypt and extract the files from the DVD, and then burn them to a new DVD without encryption. If the menu files have some clever check for encryption somehow later, well then you have a new problem to solve. Of course since most new DVDs seem to now be dual layer (and hence over 4.5GB) you would need a dual layer disc to hold the copy, which last I checked costs almost as much as just buying another copy of the movie. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:07:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:07:40 -0400 Subject: getmail question... What is a "Maildir" supposed to be??? In-Reply-To: <4280C896.6040309-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050509020432.GA18895@waltdnes.org> <4280C896.6040309@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050510150740.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 10:43:34AM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Maildir's have more structure to them than just a simple directory. > IIRC, there are files listing seen and unseen mail. I remember there > were a couple of ways to initialize them. I bet that you could find them > with a google search. A maildir is a directory containing 3 directories: tmp, new and cur. All new mail is written to tmp, then moved to new (since a mv within a filesystem is atomic there is no lock needed to solve race conditions). The mail reader then moves messages from new to cur and adds stuff to the end of the filename to flag read/unread and other bits of information in a standard format supported by Maildir aware clients. maildirmake is a common script for setting up such a Maildir. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 14:34:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:34:54 -0400 Subject: Packaging systems (was: What about post-installfest support?) In-Reply-To: <200505100121.21180.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050506230937.GC3150@waltdnes.org> <427F80B6.1090603@ca.afilias.info> <1115658502l.4224l.0l@localhost.localdomain> <200505100121.21180.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050510143454.GT2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 01:21:20AM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Agreed, but it does not stop the ignorant or partisans from trying. I have had > Debian based systems but saw no advantage over Mandrake but several > disadvantages, one being that "unstable" is where I needed to be to have the > versions of software I needed but I am not comfortable running "unstable" for > production machines as the level of testing, by definition, is not as high as > it would be for stable, which tends to have geriatric versions of most > things. My experience has told me Debian unstable often has at least as much testing as many other distributions have put into their release versions. Who other than Debian really tends to have thousands of active testers running their development version and filing lots of bug reports? I imagine something like Gentoo and ubuntu and such also have lots of people running their development stuff, but they also seem to release things as 'stable' much earlier than Debian is wiling to, although Debian has soo many architectures to make things work on before they are satisfied. Certainly Debian testing is quite reliable for running some types of production systems. I would be perfectly happy running Debian testing in production (and do for fileservers) and would be unhappy if I had to go back and try that with redhat release versions again. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:22:54 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <200505101020.33918.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200505101020.33918.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <26721.206.186.8.130.1115738574.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > > Enough to make me wonder if Novell is actually interested in selling > product! > They want to ship me a box with a manual I will never read and a bunch of > CDs > that will only be used once (in order to copy contents to NFS share). I > might have to start talking my employer into Debian! > > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux Same feeling here, I wanted 9.2 and no one had stock, all waiting for Novell to send the boxes... I found that since Novell acquired SuSE things are not the same. Seems a lot like when they bought out Tuxedo years ago, and left the product sleeping for years before selling it to someone else. So I switched to Fedora/Red Hat, maybe not the "best" package but they are very easy to get and support is generally good, with very active users groups. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:44:20 2005 From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:44:20 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <200505101020.33918.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200505101020.33918.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1115739860.18376.1.camel@CorpX-Server.tyndale.ca> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 10:20 -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On May 10, 2005 12:32 am, Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that > > > sells boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? > > > > One place that usually carries them -- haven't checked whether they have > > Pro 9.3 in stock -- is the U of T Computer Store (a wing of the bookstore), > > at St. George & College. > > Thanks Henry. Unfortunately, UofT is out of stock. They ordered more copies > 2 weeks ago and expect to wait at least another 2 weeks (slow to deliver > according to guy there). > > camelot.ca and amazon.ca are out of stock. We've ordered directly from > Novell, probably at least 7 days before it reaches us, assuming they have > stock :-( > > Enough to make me wonder if Novell is actually interested in selling product! > They want to ship me a box with a manual I will never read and a bunch of CDs > that will only be used once (in order to copy contents to NFS share). I > might have to start talking my employer into Debian! > If you wait a few weeks, you'll be able to install via ftp or http. SUSE generally makes the download version available 6 to 8 weeks after they begin selling the product. The last I heard, Novell was going to keep that practice. Phil -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:45:57 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:45:57 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <26721.206.186.8.130.1115738574.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200505101020.33918.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <26721.206.186.8.130.1115738574.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4280D735.5000003@rogers.com> Francois Ouellette wrote: >>Enough to make me wonder if Novell is actually interested in selling >>product! >>They want to ship me a box with a manual I will never read and a bunch of >>CDs >>that will only be used once (in order to copy contents to NFS share). I >>might have to start talking my employer into Debian! >> >>-- >>Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ >>Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > > > Same feeling here, I wanted 9.2 and no one had stock, all waiting for > Novell to send the boxes... I found that since Novell acquired SuSE things > are not the same. Seems a lot like when they bought out Tuxedo years ago, > and left the product sleeping for years before selling it to someone else. > > So I switched to Fedora/Red Hat, maybe not the "best" package but they are > very easy to get and support is generally good, with very active users > groups. Given that it was available weeks ago in other parts of the world, I wonder if perhaps the problem is not in the Canadian distibution system. Canadians have often been slow to get what's available elsewhere. I've seen that happen, many times over the years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 15:19:38 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:19:38 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510150548.GU2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510141049.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050510144831.GA31843@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510150548.GU2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Of course since most new DVDs seem to now be dual layer (and hence over > 4.5GB) you would need a dual layer disc to hold the copy, which last I > checked costs almost as much as just buying another copy of the movie. Not anymore: http://www.canadacomputers.com/cc/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006180&cid=719.88 I only see this one kind of dual-layer disc, and it's +R. But there it is, for a whole $6.49. Single-layer burners are getting harder to find, too. All the new ones are dual-layer and don't seem to charge a premium for the feature. They seem to go for around $70. A Plextor will run you $150 (holy CRAP that's cheap!). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 16:34:28 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:34:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: <20050510144831.GA31843-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510144831.GA31843@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > The disc I am trying to copy is a standard movie DVD... > I tried dvdbackup as well, but it is not as effective, because the > resultant copies have had their copy protection stripped off (and then > they don't play in DVD players reliably) - what I am looking for is a > bit-for-bit copy (onto a dual layer disc if necessary). Is this > possible? Are there features on a DVD that make this unworkable? Indeed there are. Movie DVDs encrypt the video/audio data for copy protection, and there is a special area of the disk where the players go to find the encryption keys. On consumer R and RW disks (whether + or -), that area is all zeros and not writable (writing to it is physically impossible; the writable layer in the disks doesn't cover that area). So making a bit-for-bit copy onto consumer writable media is impossible, period. Stripping off the copy protection is the best you can do. (I keep saying "consumer" because there's an industry-oriented writable-DVD technology, whose name I forget, which can write that area... but both disks and drives are much more expensive than the consumer ones, and seldom carried by retail suppliers.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 17:12:05 2005 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Dear All, I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux platforms. It surprised me that on windows system the code can use up to 50% cpu, while it can use only about 10% cpu in the linux system even there is no other program running. More than 80% of cpu is idle. BTW, both computers have intel 3GHz cpu. I am wondering if anyone has experience in programming under Linux enviroment. How can I make most use of the system resources, i.e., cpu, memory etc. Does my problem come from the code itself or from other things like the compiler etc. Thank you very much! --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 17:38:00 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:38:00 -0400 Subject: DVD ISO problem In-Reply-To: References: <20050510025003.GA28735@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510141049.GS2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050510144831.GA31843@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050510150548.GU2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050510173800.GW2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:19:38AM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > Not anymore: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/cc/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006180&cid=719.88 > > I only see this one kind of dual-layer disc, and it's +R. But there > it is, for a whole $6.49. > Single-layer burners are getting harder to find, too. All the new > ones are dual-layer and don't seem to charge a premium for the > feature. They seem to go for around $70. A Plextor will run you $150 > (holy CRAP that's cheap!). And the PX716A had a mail in rebate a couple of months ago for another $30 off the price. I was so tempted. I wonder how much DVD-R DL cost. I am still personally more likely to go buy the movie for $15 or 20 than bother to try and copy one. The boxed one looks pretier, has pretty inserts, is definitely legal, and I do value my time a bit, even my spare time. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 17:40:59 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:40:59 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050510171205.88062.qmail-1oTc1JHN7XmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050510174059.GX2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 10:12:05AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: > I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux platforms. It surprised me that on windows system the code can use up to 50% cpu, while it can use only about 10% cpu in the linux system even there is no other program running. More than 80% of cpu is idle. BTW, both computers have intel 3GHz cpu. I am wondering if anyone has experience in programming under Linux enviroment. How can I make most use of the system resources, i.e., cpu, memory etc. Does my problem come from the code itself or from other things like the compiler etc. Which compiler is it compiled with and does it use a lot of memory accesses? Linux has a much more efficient memory manager in the kernel than windows. I have seen claims that this is part of why Linux gains much more from 64bit chips than windows does so far. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 17:56:22 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:56:22 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050510171205.88062.qmail-1oTc1JHN7XmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On May 10, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Michael Yang wrote: > I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux > platforms. It surprised me that on windows system the code can use up > to 50% cpu, while it can use only about 10% cpu in the linux system > even there is no other program running. More than 80% of cpu is idle. > BTW, both computers have intel 3GHz cpu.?I am wondering if anyone has > experience in programming under Linux enviroment.?How can I make most > use of the system resources, i.e., cpu, memory etc. Does my problem > come from the code itself or from other things like the compiler etc. Since I don't know what your program is actually doing, I can only answer in generalities...so here they are. :-) A running program is either computing or waiting for something. The standard approach to problems like yours is to profile, trace, or otherwise determine what it's waiting on when it's not using the CPU. Sometimes waiting is a really good thing...for example, if an HTTP server spends a lot of time waiting for requests, it's doing its job well. However, if it's waiting for disk reads/writes or other peripheral access, that points a way to speeding things up. (I'm assuming these are not multi-processor systems; that would change some things.) You don't say whether there's a difference between the systems in the actual amount of work completed within a constant amount of time. (?) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 18:14:23 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:14:23 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050510171205.88062.qmail-1oTc1JHN7XmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Michael Yang wrote: > I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux platforms. It > surprised me that on windows system the code can use up to 50% cpu, while it > can use only about 10% cpu in the linux system even there is no other > program running. More than 80% of cpu is idle. BTW, both computers have > intel 3GHz cpu. I am wondering if anyone has experience in programming under > Linux enviroment. How can I make most use of the system resources, i.e., > cpu, memory etc. Does my problem come from the code itself or from other > things like the compiler etc. There's always going to be some bottleneck; it is common for "FORTRANy applications" to be CPU-bound. It sounds as though yours might not be CPU-bound, which seems a bit unusual. Does the application read/write a lot of data? If the program is running in portions that are I/O-heavy, you can expect CPU load to fall. Another possibility might be that the system might be swapping, if your application expects to have way more memory than you really have. But if that be not the case, what comes to mind as a bottleneck is memory bandwidth. Tuning at the compiler level might be relevant there. But you need to get a better feel for what is the bottleneck... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 19:02:07 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:02:07 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <26721.206.186.8.130.1115738574.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200505101020.33918.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <26721.206.186.8.130.1115738574.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4281052F.4040303@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > So I switched to Fedora/Red Hat, maybe not the "best" package but they are > very easy to get and support is generally good, with very active users > groups. Our experience with RedHat's support (for RHELAS) was very dissappointing. Which is one of the main reasons we prefer SuSE in production these days. NB, although they distribute "official kernels" with modules for filesystems other than ext3, they don't "support" non ext3 filesystems. I found this both misleading and very dissappointing. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCgQUvgfzn5SevSpoRAkaGAJ9Ti0QpZDfgT95CqyU40gmOG9QBsQCZAQoX pdeDDAGNwSvqnhj1r05OTV0= =9Vge -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 19:45:59 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:45:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Re:Help to get rid of http://oharra.coconla.net ad bug. In-Reply-To: <20050507105611.6d1cddf5.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050507142258.38777.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> <427CD3CC.8030605@alteeve.com> <20050507105611.6d1cddf5.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <200505101546.00503.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On May 7, 2005 10:56, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Sat, 07 May 2005 10:42:20 -0400 > > Madison Kelly wrote: > > Frank Peng wrote: > > > I received a hello email and downloaded its ASCII file > > > and I carelessly installed it. That is the damned > > > http://oharra.cocola.net ad bug! > > > > > > Whenever I boot my computer it lauch Microsoft IE and > > > opne its ad page. I do not know how to get rid of it. > > > > > > Please help! > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Install Linux? Being a Linux group we might be a little better able to > > help if the problem persists after Linux is running. :p > > > > In the meantime, go to http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/ and > > download Search and Destroy, update it and run it. If that doesn't work > > I think they have a forum where you might find people more... equiped... > > to help you. > > That'll work. > > Here are a couple of other things you can do, if you decide to stay with > that other operating system > > Install Firefox and don't use IE I suggest the same thing but I am not sure how effective that advice really is. After all, many applications use embedded IE controls so presumably, using those applications might still make the system vulnerable. Applications that come to mind are: Outlook (Express), MS Office apps, Eudora, essentially anything that could load Active X controls. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 20:04:14 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:04:14 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration In-Reply-To: <1115689160.24822.6.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/05, Alan Cohen wrote: > Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? I've used http://www.registeryour.ca for my domains since cancon.com died on me. Works great .. no problems. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 20:23:14 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:23:14 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42811832.3040909@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > > But you need to get a better feel for what is the bottleneck... Which, for Fortran on Linux, can sometimes be the result of the compiler. I found that certain routines ran very much faster when compiled by Intel ifc as compared to one of the Gnu fortran offerings. But not knowing the problem, this might not be the issue. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 10 22:19:55 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050510171205.88062.qmail-1oTc1JHN7XmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Michael Yang | I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux platforms. | It surprised me that on windows system the code can use up to 50% cpu, | while it can use only about 10% cpu in the linux system even there is no | other program running. More than 80% of cpu is idle. For a given problem, how much CPU time and how much real time does the problem take on MS Windows and on LINUX (which one)? g77 is a lousy FORTRAN compiler, especially in terms of optimization. Serious CFD probably deserves better. There are a number of commercial FORTRAN compilers for Linux that do much better. But maybe you aren't doing tons of CFD, so the cost of a commercial compiler isn't justified. BTW, gcc4 has a new, improved Fortran. Fortran 88 or something (I don't keep up with FORTRAN standards). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 00:00:36 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:00:36 -0500 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> <20050508163459.GA3620@node1.opengeometry.net> <427E4955.4070101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/8/05, Christopher Browne wrote: > And that situation is in nobody's interests. FAR better to pay $100 > up front to get someone to do a fresh install so that there are no > arguments about who mussed things up. ... is it feasable for a person to bring a complete system to the installfest and pay someone money then and there to set all their hardware up? There are users who simply cannot figure out how to get application x, or their video card or their scanner working properly.. stuff like that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 00:25:42 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:25:42 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration In-Reply-To: References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b205051017251a771102@mail.gmail.com> I use domainsatcost.ca : $12.95/year. And their customer service is actually spectacular. I also really like their online tools for managing domains. In short, these cats rock. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/10/05, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 5/9/05, Alan Cohen wrote: > > Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? > > I've used http://www.registeryour.ca for my domains since cancon.com > died on me. Works great .. no problems. > > Alex > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 00:38:26 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:38:26 -0400 Subject: paid support options meeting In-Reply-To: References: <427E392D.1020404@sympatico.ca> <20050508163459.GA3620@node1.opengeometry.net> <427E4955.4070101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Sy wrote: > On 5/8/05, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > And that situation is in nobody's interests. FAR better to pay $100 > > up front to get someone to do a fresh install so that there are no > > arguments about who mussed things up. > > ... is it feasable for a person to bring a complete system to the > installfest and pay someone money then and there to set all their > hardware up? There are users who simply cannot figure out how to get > application x, or their video card or their scanner working properly.. > stuff like that. If they're willing to cart everything in, I see no reason for this to cause anyone to expect to be paid a fee at the InstallFest. "Oh, you brought a monitor. I won't touch that unless you open your wallet..." My point is that if an organization plans to install a bunch of PCs with Linux and want their consultant (which might well be a GTALUG person) to support it, it would be a false economy to get a free "InstallFest installation" where there _isn't_ a warranty and where consistency may be weak. The installers may be knowledgeable and helpful; keeping modifications to things like /etc/hosts in your 'standard form' so you can use your automated update tools isn't necessarily on their list If someone can turn installing Linux on PCs into a business, more power to them. That almost certainly needs to be kept fairly separate from "GTALUG InstallFest," though. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 03:00:49 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:00:49 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <20050506182205.GY2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> <427AEA4D.70303@alteeve.com> <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42817561.9080305@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:53:49PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Thanks for the reply! >> >>The trick is though that I have several valid unicode file names (ie: >>files using Japanese kana/kanji characters). These file names are >>accepted just fine and it is important that unicode support remains. If >>there is a regex that cought all valid unicodes and wasn't too expensive >>that would be great. > > > Are you sure the filenames aren't in shiftjis or something instead? > That would be incompatible with unicode for sure. Shoot, it may actually be ShiftJIS... If that is the case, how can I "translate" it into something that postgresql would not choke on? I, wrongly I guess, thought Unicode included Japanese (et. al.). How is a poor programmer to make a program that can handle all these different encodings in a sane way? This being a backup program, is there any way I can handle files that could be named in any number of different ways or do I need to brute-force in support for each possible locale or encoding method? Thanks. Madison PS - I will play with your test program in a bit. Thank you very much for that! I learn best through example. ^_^ -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 06:00:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 02:00:06 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? Message-ID: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash shell? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 06:40:04 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:40:04 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: > I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > shell? Well, not realy a feature request, but maybe building some sort of partial 'screen' functionality into bash would be good. This is especially handy when doing remote administration imho. ^Z and fg are really lame as job control interface imho. Maybe a 1..3 lines of terminal could be dedicated to displaying the running status of a few jobs (like background downloads or upgrades or updatedb or similar). They could appear on the bottom or at the top of the terminal area. This would require ncurses. just an idea, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 14:28:11 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:28:11 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050511102811.j0mn84wrcqo0c8gs@webmail.almatau.com> Quoting William Park : > I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > shell? > Undefined variables in shell scripts are difficult to debug sometimes. An option to disallow them? ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 14:53:57 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:53:57 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511102811.j0mn84wrcqo0c8gs-2RFepEojUI3gJLRSikTpZ0EOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050511102811.j0mn84wrcqo0c8gs@webmail.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050511145357.GA3281@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 10:28:11AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting William Park : > > >I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > > >While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > >shell? > > > > Undefined variables in shell scripts are difficult to debug sometimes. > An option to disallow them? Explain what you mean by "undefined". Variable can be "undefined" if it does not exist. Or, it can be "undefined" if it has empty value (nul). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 15:17:47 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:17:47 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <200505100022.27761.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that sells > boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? Sub300.com might have it, they were featured in Slashdot a few months ago for providing a variety of PCs with linux pre-installed ( including SuSE ). Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 16:41:19 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:41:19 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511145357.GA3281-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050511102811.j0mn84wrcqo0c8gs@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511145357.GA3281@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050511124119.n0az6h4rgloosk4o@webmail.almatau.com> Quoting William Park : >> Undefined variables in shell scripts are difficult to debug sometimes. >> An option to disallow them? > > Explain what you mean by "undefined". Variable can be "undefined" if it > does not exist. Or, it can be "undefined" if it has empty value (nul). Here is what I want: #!/bin/bash S1='hello world' echo $Sl Executing of this code won't give any warnings, just an empty string. Instead, I would like to see "ERROR: undefined variable Sl in string 3", because I'm trying to print SL, not S-one. I want to trap variables which weren't used with '=' or another assignment operator. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Clemens.Martin-C3J+V8YpfQQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 16:48:55 2005 From: Clemens.Martin-C3J+V8YpfQQ at public.gmane.org (Clemens Martin) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:48:55 -0400 Subject: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? Message-ID: Well, We do in a way. Linux is one of the Operating Systems that serve as study objects in our IT Security programs on the graduate and undergraduate level. So there is no formal instruction on "How do I use/install/manage Linux", but it is nevertheless integral part of the curriculum. Hope this info helps. Clemens Martin Dr.-Ing. Clemens Martin Director IT Programs and Hacker Research Laboratory Assistant Professor Faculty of Business & IT Faculty of Engineering & Applied Science University of Ontario Institute of Technology 2000 Simcoe Street North Oshawa, Ontario L1H 7K4 Canada (905) 721 3111 x 2341 -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of G. Matthew Rice Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 6:21 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Any colleges or universities teaching Linux? "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > I'm trying to compile a list of all colleges and universities that teach > _any_ linux in their programmes. Even better would be if they admit it ;) > > So far I have Seneca and Algonquin. Are there any others that you know > of. Sorry to follow up to my own post. I'm looking for eastern Ontario schools. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 17:12:46 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:12:46 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42823D0E.2050103@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: >I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > >While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash >shell? > > > Oh oh ! I'd like comprehensive tab completion, like listing all available switches, like zsh ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 17:13:48 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511124119.n0az6h4rgloosk4o-2RFepEojUI3gJLRSikTpZ0EOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511124119.n0az6h4rgloosk4o@webmail.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: > I want to trap variables which weren't used with '=' or another assignment > operator. Have you tried the -u option? Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 17:39:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:39:25 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <42817561.9080305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> <427AEA4D.70303@alteeve.com> <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42817561.9080305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050511173925.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:00:49PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Shoot, it may actually be ShiftJIS... If that is the case, how can I > "translate" it into something that postgresql would not choke on? I, > wrongly I guess, thought Unicode included Japanese (et. al.). How is a > poor programmer to make a program that can handle all these different > encodings in a sane way? > > This being a backup program, is there any way I can handle files that > could be named in any number of different ways or do I need to > brute-force in support for each possible locale or encoding method? Well you can choose what encoding to use when you mount the filesystem (as far as I know). It may also be that the application gets to choose (but I hope not). ShiftJIS is a 2 byte per character encoding for japanese, while UTF8 is an encoding for all of unicode. Both include support for ascii characters when the high bit isn't set, so ascii characters are the same in both encodings. Many shiftjis byte combinations for non ascii however are invalid encodings in UTF8 so it would have to be converted. There are routines for converting between encodings. You might have to use some perl routine to convert shiftjis to utf8 for storage if you want to use the postgresql unicode format (to support all encodings). Another option is when sending shiftjis names to the database, you tell if that you want to use shiftjis for that session, and postgres will convert it to utf8 for internal storage, at least as far as I know. How you detect the encoding of the filesystem I don't know. Many lagecy encodings are around since utf8 hasn't always existed and it would have been much to big and complex for many older systems that could handle a simple 2byte encoding for one language. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 17:47:29 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:47:29 -0400 Subject: Test for invalid unicode in file name In-Reply-To: <42817561.9080305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <427AD480.2080007@alteeve.com> <20050505223935.E30773@diamond.ss.org> <427AEA4D.70303@alteeve.com> <20050506182205.GY2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42817561.9080305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Madison Kelly wrote: > Shoot, it may actually be ShiftJIS... If that is the case, how can I > "translate" it into something that postgresql would not choke on? I, > wrongly I guess, thought Unicode included Japanese (et. al.). How is a > poor programmer to make a program that can handle all these different > encodings in a sane way? Perhaps you could use some form of LOB (CLOB/BLOB) column for this? Then there are no concerns about character set encoding on the database side. This might be an issue, though, if one attempts to restore to filesystems which have different encodings than the source filesystems. In that case you'd want to detect the character set encoding for each filesystem and munge that as you go (and hope you don't lose anything along the way!). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 17:56:07 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:56:07 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> Quoting Henry Spencer : > On Wed, 11 May 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: >> I want to trap variables which weren't used with '=' or another assignment >> operator. > > Have you tried the -u option? No, I didn't. Let me try: ./testsr: line 4: Sl: unbound variable Thanks a lot, my wish list is empty! ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 18:22:38 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:22:38 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4-2RFepEojUI3gJLRSikTpZ0EOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 01:56:07PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: >Quoting Henry Spencer : > >>On Wed, 11 May 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: >>>I want to trap variables which weren't used with '=' or another assignment >>>operator. >> >>Have you tried the -u option? >No, I didn't. Let me try: > >./testsr: line 4: Sl: unbound variable > >Thanks a lot, my wish list is empty! wish list: unbound variable -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 18:28:32 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:28:32 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> William Park wrote: >I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > >While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash >shell? > > > audit logging! who typed what , when ( and where). david -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 18:37:11 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511182238.GA7583-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories I visited, and be able to go back). My 2 cents. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 18:44:43 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:44:43 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 5/11/05, John Vetterli wrote: > I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from > directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories I > visited, and be able to go back). You mean 'pushd' and 'popd'? (well, it might be nice to not have to specify pushd) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:10:40 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:10:40 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: References: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20050511201040.GB14001@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:17:47AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: > On 5/10/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that sells > > boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? > > Sub300.com might have it, they were featured in Slashdot a few months > ago for providing a variety of PCs with linux pre-installed ( > including SuSE ). Looking casually through their website right now, there is no hint that they would consider anything other than Linspire. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:20:26 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:20:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <42824ED0.9040701-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, David Thornton wrote: > who typed what , when ( and where). Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have .bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another bash_history and write to it instead. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:19:47 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 5/11/05, John Vetterli wrote: >> I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from >> directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories I >> visited, and be able to go back). > You mean 'pushd' and 'popd'? (well, it might be nice to not have to > specify pushd) Um, yeah, something like that. Boy, William implemented that one pretty quickly, eh? I guess you could do some magic with alias to avoid having to use pushd. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:38:44 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:38:44 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <20050511201040.GB14001-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050511201040.GB14001@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <42826D54.6000500@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:17:47AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: > >>On 5/10/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Does anyone know of a place in GTA (preferably downtown Toronto) that sells >>>boxed sets of SuSE Pro 9.3? >> >>Sub300.com might have it, they were featured in Slashdot a few months >>ago for providing a variety of PCs with linux pre-installed ( >>including SuSE ). > > > Looking casually through their website right now, there is no > hint that they would consider anything other than Linspire. > I think you're supposed to ask about other distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:49:59 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:49:59 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20050511204959.GA13761@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:20:26PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 May 2005, David Thornton wrote: > > >who typed what , when ( and where). > > Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have > .bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I > often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was > doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and > count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another > bash_history and write to it instead. I guess you could use '.bash_history.pid' instead of just '.bash_history'. Mind you, .bash_history is only written on exit. So, what's wrong with using shell's internal history buffer? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:52:11 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:52:11 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:20:26PM +0300, Peter wrote: > Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have > .bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I > often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was > doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and > count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another > bash_history and write to it instead. Doesn't zsh already support that? Besides all you have to do is make sure you remember what was in the history at start, then compare it with what you have now, and just append the new entries to the end of the file (rather than just take current history in memory and write to file, overwriting the old file). That way all the shells can append their new command to the history on exit. It won't give a chronological history of course, but at least all your commands will be there. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:54:38 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:54:38 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511204959.GA13761-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511204959.GA13761@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050511205438.GA2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 04:49:59PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I guess you could use '.bash_history.pid' instead of just > '.bash_history'. Mind you, .bash_history is only written on exit. So, > what's wrong with using shell's internal history buffer? Start two shells. Do some work in shell 1, then exit (it writes its history to .bash_history) Do some work in shell 2, then exit (it writes its history to .bash_history, completely overwriting anything you just did in shell 1. You will just have whatever the history was before starting the shells, plus whatever you did in shell 2). Each shell's internal history is fine, but if you want to logout and be able to go back to those commands later, you have to be sure the last shell you exit is the one with the commands you want it to remember in the future. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:55:10 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Peter wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005, David Thornton wrote: > >> who typed what , when ( and where). > > Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have > ..bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I often > have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was doing in all > of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and count the links to > bash_history on startup. If >1 open another bash_history and write to it > instead. In .bashrc, put: PROMPT_COMMAND='history -a' ## All shells will write to the default file Or: HISTFILE=$HOME/.bash_history.$$ ## New file for each shell There are many possible variations on this theme. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:58:34 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: > I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > shell? X window commands, e.g.: window=$(openwindow -geometry 600x300+10+10) drawline $window 10 10 30 100 text $window "Hello, world." closewindow $window etc....... -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 20:58:36 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:58:36 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511204959.GA13761-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511204959.GA13761@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <428271FC.2030400@quadratic.net> William Park wrote: >On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:20:26PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > >>On Wed, 11 May 2005, David Thornton wrote: >> >> >> >>>who typed what , when ( and where). >>> >>> >>Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have >>.bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I >>often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was >>doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and >>count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another >>bash_history and write to it instead. >> >> > >I guess you could use '.bash_history.pid' instead of just >'.bash_history'. Mind you, .bash_history is only written on exit. So, >what's wrong with using shell's internal history buffer? > > > I want to be able to archive 7 years worth of keystrokes. It's not important to me to sort command histories by shell. Timestamping the command would be a must. david -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 21:14:00 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: >> On 5/11/05, John Vetterli wrote: >> > I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from >> > directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories I >> > visited, and be able to go back). >> You mean 'pushd' and 'popd'? (well, it might be nice to not have to >> specify pushd) > > Um, yeah, something like that. Boy, William implemented that one pretty > quickly, eh? > > I guess you could do some magic with alias to avoid having to use pushd. cd() { pushd "${@:-$HOME}"; } cdx() { popd "$@"; } You might want to improve on the cd function to handle the -P and -L options to cd. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 21:16:00 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:16:00 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050511211600.GA13961@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 04:58:34PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: > > >I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > > >While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > >shell? > > X window commands, e.g.: > > window=$(openwindow -geometry 600x300+10+10) > drawline $window 10 10 30 100 > text $window "Hello, world." > closewindow $window > > etc....... I've been tossing that idea around. So far, it's like builtin variation of 'dialog'. I certainly put hooks into C libraries. We'll see... By the way, folks, there is a new book on shell scripting called "Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach" from Apress. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 21:25:37 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511211600.GA13961-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050511211600.GA13961@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 04:58:34PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: >> >>> I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. >>> http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ >>> >>> While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash >>> shell? >> >> X window commands, e.g.: >> >> window=$(openwindow -geometry 600x300+10+10) >> drawline $window 10 10 30 100 >> text $window "Hello, world." >> closewindow $window >> >> etc....... > > I've been tossing that idea around. So far, it's like builtin variation > of 'dialog'. I certainly put hooks into C libraries. We'll see... > > By the way, folks, there is a new book on shell scripting called > "Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach" > from Apress. Really? Is it any good? ;) -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 21:33:25 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:33:25 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1115847205.19179.849.camel@holden.weait.net> On Wed, 2005-05-11 at 02:00, William Park wrote: > While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > shell? tab-completion is great but I need thought-completion to remind me of what I was going to do before the phone rang. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 11 23:29:22 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 19:29:22 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <20050510131454.GQ2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505091930.42145.marc@lijour.net> <20050510131454.GQ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200505111929.23018.marc@lijour.net> On Tuesday 10 May 2005 09:14, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:30:42PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I got the switch working. > > However there is a problem: > > > > (extract from #service network start) > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using interface > > eth0/00:A0:C9:39:DB:80 with driver (version: > > eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29 > > /99 Don) > > May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Using detection mode: > > SIOCGMIIPHY May 9 18:45:22 router ifplugd(eth0)[28473]: Initialization > > complete, link beat not detected. > > May 9 18:45:22 router network: Bringing up interface eth0: failed > > > > ifplugd monitors eth0 on this system (well, I learnt something today!). > > But it fails seeing the link beat and shuts down my card. > > > > But is works with the other card working with the 8139too driver. > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: ifplugd 0.21b initializing. > > May 9 18:31:39 router kernel: eth2: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa > > 0x0000 May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using interface > > eth2/00:60:67:72:4F:EE with driver <8139too> (version: 0.9.27) > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Using detection mode: > > SIOCGMIIPHY May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Initialization > > complete, link beat detected. > > May 9 18:31:39 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Executing > > '/etc/ifplugd/ifplugd.action eth2 up'. > > May 9 18:31:41 router ifplugd(eth2)[25008]: Program executed > > successfully. May 9 18:31:41 router network: Bringing up interface eth2: > > succeeded > > > > > > Now my next question is: how do I disable nicely ifplugd? > > Never heard of it. Did you try e100 driver? It tends to be far > superior to the crappy old eepro100 driver in my experience. Maybe > ifplugd uses an interface the old driver doesn't provide or something. I tried the e100 driver with no more luck. But I learnt that my card wants IRQ15 while it is given IRQ9, that might explains something... > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 00:44:28 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux positions (fwd) Message-ID: Hi all. I received these as a GTALUG contact on the web page. The following actual Linux positions are reportedly available. As well as the positions listed below there is apparently also an architect role for someone with Linux and VMWare skills available through the same recruiter. Anyone who is interested should contact Mike Cochrane, not me. Cheers, Rob ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 1) I need a sr. Linux admin contractor for a renewable 6 month term. Standard duties, tuning, scripting etc, but in a very large enterprise environment. This is a production role. Must have VERY solid linux admin background, no intermediates. (Having said that I also have an intermediate role :) 2) These are a little different...I need another 2 sr. Linux admins with ESX (vmware) exp. Optimize ESX infrastructure, run backup routines, build monitoring scripts, optimize operational scripting tasks, provision instances, have general concepts of virtualization, scripting in Perl. These are once again a 6 month renewable Mike Cochrane Jesco Technologies 416 259 0555 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 02:45:26 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:45:26 -0400 Subject: OT: .CA domain name registration In-Reply-To: <20050510035051.GA32027-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> >>Any recommendations for a .CA domain name registrar? It seems that some organizations offer, as a sort of bonus, extra, DNS entries that can be edited by owner to point to their web server. I see that as a point. Does anybody around has a list of these who do offer DNS and these that do not? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 03:29:37 2005 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:29:37 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? Message-ID: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> Hey everyone, A friend of mine is trying to get his wireless card working with Mepis, but it's not. It's a D-Link G-520 (Revision B), which apparently is a problem... http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-29446.html Does anyone have any recommendations for a PCI card that will work with Debian/Mepis that you can buy at FutureShop? (And if not FutureShop, what store and what card?) thanks! emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin Guild of Accessible Web Designers :: www.gawds.org consulting: www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 03:48:33 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:48:33 -0400 Subject: getmail question... What is a "Maildir" supposed to be??? In-Reply-To: <20050510150740.GV2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050509020432.GA18895@waltdnes.org> <4280C896.6040309@ca.afilias.info> <20050510150740.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050512034833.GA27332@waltdnes.org> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:07:40AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > A maildir is a directory containing 3 directories: tmp, new and cur. Thank you, thank you, thank you verrry verrry much. I've now got mutt moved over to maildir format and things seem to be working OK. There's one little detail I'm missing. I run getmail over an ssh tunnel to pull email. getmail passes the emails off to procmail, which directs the incoming emails to appropriate subdirs for the mailing lists I'm on. I understood that procmail was supposed to be able to handle maildir boxes. Instead, I have to specify the "new" subdir explicitly ("gentoo/new", "tlug/new", etc). Is that a bug or is it a feature? Here's my getmail config. I run it as user waltdnes, to avoid having to give getmail root privileges, and procmail delivers to a maildir in my home directory. [retriever] type = SimplePOP3Retriever server = 127.0.0.1 username = ******** port = 10110 password = ******** [destination] type = MDA_external user = waltdnes path = /usr/bin/procmail arguments = ( "-m", "~/.mailfilter/.procmailrc") [options] read_all = true delete = true message_log = ~/.getmail/log -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 03:49:49 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:49:49 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050510171205.88062.qmail-1oTc1JHN7XmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 10:12:05AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote > I have a CFD Fortran code running on both Windows and Linux > platforms. It surprised me that on windows system the code can use > up to 50% cpu, while it can use only about 10% cpu in the linux > system even there is no other program running. More than 80% of cpu > is idle. BTW, both computers have intel 3GHz cpu. I am wondering if > anyone has experience in programming under Linux enviroment. How can > I make most use of the system resources, i.e., cpu, memory etc. Does > my problem come from the code itself or from other things like the > compiler etc. On Windows 2K and XP, you're always running a bloated GUI, whether you need it or not. On linux, KDE and GNOME can be just as bloated, but you do have the option to turn them off. This means that you will have more free CPU resources to begin with on linux. Even if a program uses the same actual amount of resources, it is a smaller fraction of the free resources. I assume that CFD == Computational Fluid Dynamics, i.e. heavy-duty number-crunching. Do you have the source code for your program? If so, did you "cat /proc/cpuinfo" and use any relavant flags in the compile? Assumimg you're using GCC Fortran, I'm talking about stuff like mmx, sse, sse2, etc, and don't forget -O2. But don't even *THINK* about -O3. I switched to Gentoo linux some months ago because it allows me to optimize all compiled programs to get the most out of my 1999 Dell Dimension XPS T450. Yes folks, a 450 mhz PIII with 128 megs of RAM. The only place where it's showing its age is streaming video. The real comparison you should be making is how long it takes to do a big job under Windows versus the same job under linux. G77 is the neglected stepchild of the GCC compilers. The situation is supposed to be improving in version 4 of GCC, with G95 (yes, Fortran 95) being available. GCC 4.0 should still be considered beta today. I would wait for at least a couple of updates before using it for production work. This applies to any point-zero release, not just GCC 4.0. It would take a bit of analysis to decide where your bottleneck is. If it's CPU bound, a faster CPU would help. If it's disk access, get more memory to cut down on swapping and consider moving temp files to /dev/shm to reduce disk access. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 04:45:16 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:45:16 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511204959.GA13761-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511204959.GA13761@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, William Park wrote: >> Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have >> .bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I >> often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was >> doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and >> count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another >> bash_history and write to it instead. > > I guess you could use '.bash_history.pid' instead of just > '.bash_history'. Mind you, .bash_history is only written on exit. So, Ok, so what I said would not work. > what's wrong with using shell's internal history buffer? Nothing, but the last shell to exit overwrites anything the previous ones wrote, so you have only one log. .bash_history.pid is a possible solution. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 04:47:34 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:47:34 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511205211.GZ2288-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:20:26PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have >> .bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I >> often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was >> doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and >> count the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another >> bash_history and write to it instead. > > Doesn't zsh already support that? zsh is not the default system shell on linux. > Besides all you have to do is make sure you remember what was in the > history at start, then compare it with what you have now, and just > append the new entries to the end of the file (rather than just take > current history in memory and write to file, overwriting the old file). > > That way all the shells can append their new command to the history on > exit. It won't give a chronological history of course, but at least all > your commands will be there. That implies mutual locking to prevent writing garbage into the file, and a different format of the file (to id the writing shell - otherwise backtracking on a session set is impossible). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 04:50:07 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:50:07 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Oh, that's a good one. One thing that I would really like is to have >> ..bash_history log commands from *all* open shells for a given user. I >> often have 4-8 shells open and the history does not reflect what I was >> doing in all of them. The easiest way would be for bash to stat and count >> the links to bash_history on startup. If >1 open another bash_history and >> write to it instead. > > In .bashrc, put: > > PROMPT_COMMAND='history -a' ## All shells will write to the default file > > Or: > > HISTFILE=$HOME/.bash_history.$$ ## New file for each shell > > There are many possible variations on this theme. Thanks, I will have to try that out asap. Nice one. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 05:34:21 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:34:21 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > X window commands, e.g.: > > window=$(openwindow -geometry 600x300+10+10) > drawline $window 10 10 30 100 > text $window "Hello, world." > closewindow $window ;-) There are a few command line programs that do that already (maybe not at that level, you can't draw afaik). But why not go all the way and bind several shells into a 'gshell' that would act as a wrapper and transfer variables between the instances. Maybe it could handle setting up pipes so programs can talk to each other while running under it. Sample (totally fictitious): #!/bin/gshell # # gshell stands for godzilla shell ;-) # WORKDIR=/some/where # run commands under bash # escape any curly braces in $* SSTAR=`echo "$*"|sed -e 's/{/\{/g' -e 's/}/\}/g'` !/bin/bash $SSTAR { PWD=`pwd` cd ${WORKDIR} . ./config.cfg # start something in the background, via bash nohup mydaemon ${OPTS} $SSTAR & PID=$! } # run a process under another instance of bash in the background - # similar to what was done above, but different: ! $SSTAR { cd ${WORKDIR} # the '&' below puts the task in the background !/bin/bash $* { & . ./soft-daemon.sh ${OPTS} $SSTAR } PID=$! LOST="something that will be lost" export PID } # end context: undoes cd ${WORKDIR} and any shell variables set in the context # and not exported are unset # run commands under wish: gshell unescapes '\{' to '{' below etc !/usr/bin/wish -- -foo "\{bar baz ${PID}\}" { set pid [lindex [lindex $argv 3] 2] wm title . {myapp: $pid} label .l -text "Myapp (daemon PID=$pid)" # etc etc set logf [open $logfn {WRONLY APPEND CREAT} # etc etc puts $logf "$logstamp session end" close $logf } # write a report using perl and mail errors somewhere if necessary !/usr/bin/perl -W { # perl code here } # exit with a code exit 0 As you can see this is not very hard (famous last words) as each context or instance can be implemented as a standalone shell script after very simple text manipulation. just fantasy (for now), Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 11:26:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:26:35 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050512034949.GB27332-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: It would take a bit of analysis to decide where your bottleneck is. > If it's CPU bound, a faster CPU would help. If it's disk access, get > more memory to cut down on swapping and consider moving temp files to > /dev/shm to reduce disk access. > What's /dev/shm? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 00:26:37 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:26:37 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on our ability to spread the word in areas which really count Message-ID: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 12:26:28 2005 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:26:28 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: ; from jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Wed, May 11, 2005 at 14:44:43 -0400 References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> On Wed May 11,2005 02:44:43 PM Taavi Burns wrote: > On 5/11/05, John Vetterli wrote: > > I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from > > directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories > > I visited, and be able to go back). > You mean 'pushd' and 'popd'? (well, it might be nice to not have to > specify pushd) I'd like something more like: Automatic pushd to a directory history list and then be able to switch directly to any directory in the list. Not popd (with directory lost), popd (with directory lost)... I'm not sure how display and selection of the directory history list would work. The 4DOS, 4OS2 and 4NT shells (for their respective OS's) pop up a window (text based, a la curses) when you press ctrl-pageup, from which you can cursor up/down and press enter to select a previously visited directory. The same kind of pop up window is available for command history. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 13:06:13 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:06:13 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:26:37 -0400 bob wrote: > http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ After reading the article and seeing quotes like this, "Least charitable was Ms. Liang of the US's Kaiser Foundation, who said "We looked at Open Source for all of two minutes, and then dismissed it"." and "The feeling one got during their (generally) dismissive answers to the question was that someone in their organizations did a quick Google search for "Open Source +healthcare", came up with only a few projects in the incubation stage,, and simply decided that Open Source wasn't up to the task." And probably billed several thousand dollars for coming to that conclusion. I'd say that the problem isn't us, as in the Open Source community not giving answers and support, but a lack of due diligence on the part of these people. We have a right to expect that the people who spend public money do so in an informed manner - they are after all, getting paid to do that and if they don't do it then they should get called on it. I just don't see how anyone doing their job in this area could ignore things like Vista http://worldvista.org/welcome.html or the kind of commitment to Open Source that players like IBM have made. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 13:08:47 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:08:47 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> Message-ID: On 5/11/05, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Hey everyone, > > A friend of mine is trying to get his wireless card working with Mepis, > but it's not. It's a D-Link G-520 (Revision B), which apparently is a > problem... > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-29446.html > Does anyone have any recommendations for a PCI card that will work with > Debian/Mepis that you can buy at FutureShop? (And if not FutureShop, what > store and what card?) I've never done the PCI thing but heres a good list: http://linux_wless.passys.nl/ It claims partial support for the D-Link G520 with the mad-wifi driver. I use the same driver in my laptop and its been very stable. You might also be able to use the ndiswrapper project for that card. I had fairly good experience with the ndiswrapper, even with Microsoft cards. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 13:13:52 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:13:52 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on our ability to spread the word in areas which really count References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <002801c556f4$71fc5b60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ Well, Novell also doesn't see open source solutions as being up to the task for some office "power users". But then Novell is with projects like "Hula" actively putting their money where their mouth is in order to fill the holes they see in the open source arena... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 12:24:13 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:24:13 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42834AED.90405@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > But why not go all the way ... Do I get to say, "Bash is a nice operating system, but it lacks a lightweight scripting language" now? Stewart ... runs -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 13:19:43 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:19:43 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On May 12, 2005, at 9:06 AM, Rob Sutherland wrote: > We have a right to expect that the people who spend public money do so > in an > informed manner - they are after all, getting paid to do that and if > they don't > do it then they should get called on it. Though I agree we have that right, we would be rather silly to imagine that it actually happens. I have made some attempts to raise issues with bureaucrats (letter-writing regarding Toronto hardware upgrades for Windows) and have seen nothing but paternalistic, complacent responses. Even having worked in government some time ago, I don't have any wonderful ideas about how to cut through the fog. It's well known that back when IBM were "the bad guys" there was an IT maxim that nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM. That philosophy of being protected by hiding in the herd is still alive and well in spite of name changes. Some people, even if they figure out they're on the road to hell, can't imagine a better solution than slowing the journey. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 13:40:38 2005 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:40:38 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <1115905238.1235.3.camel@appliance> Fortunately, there is more OSS going on in Medical IT than the musings of some ignorant people, even in our own backyard! Check out: http://sourceforge.net/projects/crrs/ Steven On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 09:06 -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:26:37 -0400 > bob wrote: > > > http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ > > After reading the article and seeing quotes like this, > > "Least charitable was Ms. Liang of the US's Kaiser Foundation, who said > "We looked at Open Source for all of two minutes, and then dismissed it"." > > and > > "The feeling one got during their (generally) dismissive answers to the question > was that someone in their organizations did a quick Google search for "Open Source +healthcare", > came up with only a few projects in the incubation stage,, and simply decided that Open > Source wasn't up to the task." > > And probably billed several thousand dollars for coming to that conclusion. > > I'd say that the problem isn't us, as in the Open Source community not giving > answers and support, but a lack of due diligence on the part of these people. > We have a right to expect that the people who spend public money do so in an > informed manner - they are after all, getting paid to do that and if they don't > do it then they should get called on it. > > I just don't see how anyone doing their job in this area could ignore things like Vista > > http://worldvista.org/welcome.html > > or the kind of commitment to Open Source that players like IBM have made. > > Rob > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:34:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:34:20 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050512143420.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:47:34AM +0300, Peter wrote: > zsh is not the default system shell on linux. So? bash isn't the default shell on BSD either, that doens't stop sane people from changing to it. > That implies mutual locking to prevent writing garbage into the file, > and a different format of the file (to id the writing shell - otherwise > backtracking on a session set is impossible). If you don't care about order, you just need locking to prevent simultanious writes. That's good enough for most cases. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:36:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:36:54 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <200505111929.23018.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505091930.42145.marc@lijour.net> <20050510131454.GQ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200505111929.23018.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20050512143654.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 07:29:22PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I tried the e100 driver with no more luck. > But I learnt that my card wants IRQ15 while it is given IRQ9, that might > explains something... Well IRQ15 is normally the second IDE controller, although if you don't use it and disabled it, then that is OK. IRQ9 is most commonly used for ACPI, but doesn't have to be. PCI cards don't get to want anything, they get to say what amount and type of resources they would like and then they get told what resources (if any) they actually got. They also have no concept of IRQ numbers, only PCI interrupt lines A through D, which the BIOS/OS then assigns to a system interrupt number and tells the driver to expect that irq number for the device. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:42:24 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:42:24 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <42833D6B.1040602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050512144224.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:26:35AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > What's /dev/shm? a tmpfs ram filesystem. /dev/shm is also where X stores files for shared memory access. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:41:02 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:41:02 -0400 Subject: getmail question... What is a "Maildir" supposed to be??? In-Reply-To: <20050512034833.GA27332-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050509020432.GA18895@waltdnes.org> <4280C896.6040309@ca.afilias.info> <20050510150740.GV2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050512034833.GA27332@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050512144102.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:48:33PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've now got mutt moved over to maildir format and things seem to be > working OK. There's one little detail I'm missing. I run getmail over > an ssh tunnel to pull email. getmail passes the emails off to procmail, > which directs the incoming emails to appropriate subdirs for the mailing > lists I'm on. I understood that procmail was supposed to be able to > handle maildir boxes. Instead, I have to specify the "new" subdir > explicitly ("gentoo/new", "tlug/new", etc). Is that a bug or is it a > feature? Here's my getmail config. I run it as user waltdnes, to avoid > having to give getmail root privileges, and procmail delivers to a > maildir in my home directory. Procmail uses maildir when the target ends in /, otherwise it uses mbox. So if you have maildirs here /home/username/Mail/tlug/[cur,tmp,new] you would ask procmail to deliver mail to Mail/tlug/ The trailing / is required. It will put it in tmp/new as appropriate during delivery. If you try Mail/tlug or Mail/tlug/new it will try to open those as mbox files and it won't work. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:49:30 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:49:30 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <42834AED.90405-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42834AED.90405@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 May 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Do I get to say, "Bash is a nice operating system, but it lacks a > lightweight scripting language" now? You can say whatever you want, *nobody* can outdo emacs as an operating system imho. The only thing it lacks is a decent bootloader ;-) Peter PS: I hate emacs. vim rules -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:53:58 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:53:58 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <42834AED.90405-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42834AED.90405@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 May 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> But why not go all the way ... > > Do I get to say, "Bash is a nice operating system, but it lacks a > lightweight scripting language" now? On the other hand, why would it be possible to put a here-file in bash just about anywhere, and why would that not be a script in the language used by the command $0 in that statement ? like: /some/interpreter -flag -bar -baz -- < References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> Message-ID: <1115909604.9586.2.camel@localhost> Prism54 based cards are pretty good, since they have opensourced driver, even though it still loads firmware. http://www.prism54.org/ http://www.prism54.org/supported_cards.php Other then that, you can get pretty any card you like, with ndis driver loader: http://www.linuxant.com/driverloader/ later, pavel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 14:56:54 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:56:54 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050512143420.GA23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050512143420.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> That implies mutual locking to prevent writing garbage into the file, >> and a different format of the file (to id the writing shell - otherwise >> backtracking on a session set is impossible). > > If you don't care about order, you just need locking to prevent > simultanious writes. That's good enough for most cases. The purpose of having a log is to be able to backtrack. That implies order is important. One could have a record format similar to the log file entries a la '${time}(${pid}): line \n' but the writes must be done line-locked or they will be interspersed with output from other shells. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 11:07:15 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:07:15 Subject: AAX Re:an interesting take on small business IT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050512110715.82bf15da@mail.look.ca> In the Graduate Students' Union pub Tuesday night, I mentioned the 'AAX' article, which discusses a lobby group's advocating the outlawing of 'firewalls', as currently operating. Fact and opinion article, recommending against Microsoft operating systems, in favour of Linux, BSD Unix, or OS/2, with reasons: Andrew Grygus - Automation Access - AAX: At 11:03 AM 2005/05/03 +0300, Peter wrote: >more or less in the context of yesterday's discussion: >http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html >Peter This is a very long article, close to 200 pages. I think that everyone in our group should read it. One of several thousand tidbits of information it supplies is that there is, astonishingly, a lobby group of mainly movie studios trying to outlaw the use of 'fire-walls', as currently operating. The lobby group wants movie studios to be able to penetrate any barriers around your PCs, to do an intensive, all-pervasive inspection of the contents of your computer systems at any time, to detect any and all illicit 'pirating' of their copyrighted recordings. 'Fire-walls' which would lock them out would be illegal, if their laws are ever passed. I don't think that their laws will ever be passed, but they might pressure 'fire-wall' designers to redesign them to permit movie studios to use special protocols to slip through the 'fire-wall' in order to do their complete inspection/audit to hunt down those people who have 'pirated' their recordings. When they inspect your recordings, they cannot know whether you also own a legal copy of their movie, and are using the traditional 'fair use' of a legally-acquired recording; they will assume that you are a criminal. The traditional 'fair use' will be endangered. P.s.: They would also outlaw IPV4, requiring use of IPV6, to enable them to pinpoint the 'pirated' recordings more precisely. James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 15:18:46 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:18:46 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> Message-ID: <20050512151846.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 09:08:47AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: > On 5/11/05, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > A friend of mine is trying to get his wireless card working with Mepis, > > but it's not. It's a D-Link G-520 (Revision B), which apparently is a > > problem... > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-29446.html > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a PCI card that will work with > > Debian/Mepis that you can buy at FutureShop? (And if not FutureShop, what > > store and what card?) > > I've never done the PCI thing but heres a good list: > > http://linux_wless.passys.nl/ > > It claims partial support for the D-Link G520 with the mad-wifi > driver. I use the same driver in my laptop and its been very stable. > > You might also be able to use the ndiswrapper project for that card. > I had fairly good experience with the ndiswrapper, even with Microsoft > cards. Well this looks promising: http://www.ralinktech.com/supp-1.htm Their driver is entirely source code (no .o files or other crap that I can see). Anyone know what cards use the rt2400 (802.11b) and rt2500 (802.11g) chipsets? Nice to see someone releasing a wireless driver as GPL from the manufacturer (which they appear to have done as of driver version 1.4.4.0). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 15:20:08 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:20:08 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050512143420.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050512152008.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 05:56:54PM +0300, Peter wrote: > The purpose of having a log is to be able to backtrack. That implies > order is important. One could have a record format similar to the log > file entries a la '${time}(${pid}): line \n' but the writes must be done > line-locked or they will be interspersed with output from other shells. I never considered the bash history to be a log, just a great source of previous command lines. If it was a log, I would expect it to not keep loosing information when multiple shells are running, hence it is not a log. A log feature could be useful though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 15:26:20 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:26:20 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050512151846.GE23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> <20050512151846.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/12/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Nice to see someone releasing a wireless driver as GPL from the > manufacturer (which they appear to have done as of driver version > 1.4.4.0). I have a Cisco Aironet 350 MiniPCI card in my laptop which is supported by the 2.6 kernel. Fabrice Bellet has been doing a lot of work on it. Cisco has also released driver packages for it from time to time, on which the airo.ko code is based (i.e. it's GPL). I can't recall the original lineage, though (did Cisco write the original, or patch some original GPL'd driver to work with the MiniPCI version of the card). The Cisco utilities to do LEAP do in fact work with the stock kernel driver which is kind of neat. At some point I'd love to see if I can get wpa_supplicant working, though (so I can use the wireless at my girlfriend's place, WPA'd as it is). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 16:19:03 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:19:03 -0400 Subject: Madwifi question Message-ID: <428381F7.1050703@rogers.com> I've got a newbie-esque question to ask the list. I have an Atheros wifi card in my laptop that I would like to get working. I've done a fair bit of research and it looks like I'll have the best shot with the madwifi driver. The problem is that Mandriva lists 5 different rpms for madwifi: - madwifi-0.20050121-2mdk - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-0.20050121-1mdk - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdkBOOT-0.20050121-1mdk - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i586-up-1GB-0.20020121-1mdk - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i686-up-4GB-0.20050121-1mdk The question is which one do I use? Uname -r gives 2.6.11 as the installed kernel and the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite with a 2.8Ghz Celeron and 512 MB ram. TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 16:33:35 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:33:35 -0400 Subject: Madwifi question In-Reply-To: <428381F7.1050703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428381F7.1050703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050512163335.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 12:19:03PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > I've got a newbie-esque question to ask the list. I have an Atheros wifi > card in my laptop > that I would like to get working. I've done a fair bit of research and > it looks like I'll have > the best shot with the madwifi driver. The problem is that Mandriva > lists 5 different rpms > for madwifi: > > - madwifi-0.20050121-2mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-0.20050121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdkBOOT-0.20050121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i586-up-1GB-0.20020121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i686-up-4GB-0.20050121-1mdk > > The question is which one do I use? Uname -r gives 2.6.11 as the > installed kernel and > the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite with a 2.8Ghz Celeron and 512 MB ram. What do you have in /boot? What does asking your package manager for a list of installed kernel packages say the version of the package is? Does uname -r really only say 2.6.11 and nothing else? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 16:36:17 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:36:17 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050512152008.GF23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42824ED0.9040701@quadratic.net> <20050511205211.GZ2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050512143420.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050512152008.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1115915776.4370.2.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 11:20, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 05:56:54PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > The purpose of having a log is to be able to backtrack. That implies > > order is important. One could have a record format similar to the log > > file entries a la '${time}(${pid}): line \n' but the writes must be done > > line-locked or they will be interspersed with output from other shells. > > I never considered the bash history to be a log, just a great source of > previous command lines. > > If it was a log, I would expect it to not keep loosing information when > multiple shells are running, hence it is not a log. A log feature could > be useful though. > > Lennart Sorensen For what it's worth, my business shell (Bush) has history log. If you want a powerful scripting language / shell / template engine, use Bush or a similar project. It's time to give Bash a well-deserved rest. Ken B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 16:40:13 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:40:13 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 phil wrote: > On May 12, 2005, at 9:06 AM, Rob Sutherland wrote: > >> We have a right to expect that the people who spend public money do so >> in an >> informed manner - they are after all, getting paid to do that and if >> they don't >> do it then they should get called on it. > > Though I agree we have that right, we would be rather silly to imagine > that it actually happens. I have made some attempts to raise issues > with bureaucrats (letter-writing regarding Toronto hardware upgrades for > Windows) and have seen nothing but paternalistic, complacent responses. > Even having worked in government some time ago, I don't have any > wonderful ideas about how to cut through the fog. Could it be that the reason you have recieve paternalistic and complacent responses from bureaucrats is that the issues you raised appeared childish and trivial to them? Maybe you'd have more success if you tried to understand the issues that matter to them and then see where solutions which would address your issues coincide with solutions which would address theirs? Drew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCg4bsgfzn5SevSpoRAl6ZAKDBVeIUcm/xsbW67NUdon9wJDiG3wCffQ7Q /3uuw6rcRAUfcxSFV2FV2Go= =wpO7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 17:11:14 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:11:14 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on our ability to spread the word in areas which really count In-Reply-To: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: That was a good read.. thanks. On 5/11/05, bob wrote: > http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ > > bob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 18:14:30 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:14:30 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <42834AED.90405-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <42834AED.90405@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050512181430.GA2288@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 08:24:13AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Peter wrote: > > > > But why not go all the way ... > > Do I get to say, "Bash is a nice operating system, but it lacks a > lightweight scripting language" now? I did embed Python into Bash shell, while ago. Size bloated to 1.7MB, and interface was awkward. Now, I don't really need it, because I've got most of Python features in Bash, such as - most of string operations, - try-block and exception handling, - regex everywhere - some functional syntax, I'll releasing latest version (bashdiff-1.15), after this email. It got string join, like a=(`date`) echo "${a[*]}" --> 'Thu May 12 14:13:06 EDT 2005' echo "${a[*]|,xx}" --> 'ThuxxMayxx12xx14:13:06xxEDTxx2005' And, few other minor operations. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 18:22:58 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:22:58 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> Message-ID: <20050512182258.GB2288@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 08:26:28AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > > On Wed May 11,2005 02:44:43 PM Taavi Burns wrote: > >On 5/11/05, John Vetterli wrote: > >> I'd like to have some sort of directory history (i.e. as I cd from > >> directory to directory, have bash remember the last N directories > >> I visited, and be able to go back). > > >You mean 'pushd' and 'popd'? (well, it might be nice to not have to > >specify pushd) > > I'd like something more like: > Automatic pushd to a directory history list and then be able to > switch directly to any directory in the list. Not popd (with > directory lost), popd (with directory lost)... > > I'm not sure how display and selection of the directory history list > would work. The 4DOS, 4OS2 and 4NT shells (for their respective OS's) > pop up a window (text based, a la curses) when you press ctrl-pageup, > from which you can cursor up/down and press enter to select a > previously visited directory. The same kind of pop up window is > available for command history. 1. To go back to most recent directory, use cd ~- I use alias b='cd ~-' 2. To go back even more, search the history buffer for 'cd '. In vi-mode command-line, it is /cd -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 18:55:23 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:55:23 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050512185523.GA2443@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 09:06:13AM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:26:37 -0400 > > http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ ... > I'd say that the problem isn't us, as in the Open Source community not > giving answers and support, but a lack of due diligence on the part of > these people. ... This is what I learned (and learning) from my trying to sale Linux thin-client. To us, it's waste of money. To them, it's job security. - Nobody gets fired for going with Microsoft. In fact, all those labour intensive maintenance means that their department will get more budget. More budget means more power and prestige. Hence, job security. - Also, you have to keep in mind that these people are "failed" doctors. They didn't make it in clinical area or treating patient, so they decided on different work. We should have our monthly meetings at a strip joint. Then, we can invite people, say from Ministry of Health, Transportation, etc. to our meeting, and have a meaningful discussion of the problems they are experiencing. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 19:06:46 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:06:46 -0400 Subject: eepro100 does not detect the link beat on NetGEAR switch FS608v2 !? In-Reply-To: <20050512143654.GB23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200505061920.24143.marc@lijour.net> <200505111929.23018.marc@lijour.net> <20050512143654.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200505121506.46894.marc@lijour.net> On Thursday 12 May 2005 10:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 07:29:22PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I tried the e100 driver with no more luck. > > But I learnt that my card wants IRQ15 while it is given IRQ9, that might > > explains something... > > Well IRQ15 is normally the second IDE controller, although if you don't > use it and disabled it, then that is OK. IRQ9 is most commonly used for > ACPI, but doesn't have to be. > > PCI cards don't get to want anything, they get to say what amount and > type of resources they would like and then they get told what resources > (if any) they actually got. They also have no concept of IRQ numbers, > only PCI interrupt lines A through D, which the BIOS/OS then assigns to > a system interrupt number and tells the driver to expect that irq number > for the device. Thanks for the explanation > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 19:13:07 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:13:07 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <428386ED.8090207-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On May 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Could it be that the reason you have recieve paternalistic and > complacent responses from bureaucrats is that the issues you raised > appeared childish and trivial to them? Probably not. Why would you assume such a thing? (And even if you knew what you were talking about, they *shouldn't* perceive the waste of public money as being "childish and trivial".) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 19:40:33 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:40:33 -0400 Subject: Madwifi question In-Reply-To: <428381F7.1050703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428381F7.1050703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1115926833.16405.3.camel@localhost> ? ???, 12/05/2005 ? 12:19 -0400, John McGregor ?????: > I've got a newbie-esque question to ask the list. I have an Atheros wifi > card in my laptop > that I would like to get working. I've done a fair bit of research and > it looks like I'll have > the best shot with the madwifi driver. The problem is that Mandriva > lists 5 different rpms > for madwifi: Hi, I would recommend you to invest time into learning how to patch/compile kernel and build driver from the source. Binary bits of code inserted into the kernel is not fresh... later, pavel http://www.digitalhermit.com/linux/Kernel-Build-HOWTO.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From peeyush_maurya-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 19:48:49 2005 From: peeyush_maurya-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peeyush Maurya) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: t0rn rootkit In-Reply-To: <1115926833.16405.3.camel@localhost> References: <1115926833.16405.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050512194849.17144.qmail@web54204.mail.yahoo.com> just wants to share my freinds linux box(mail, ftp, sql server) got crashed few dayz ago, after rebooting it start giving many boot error(file missing, line error, etc.), after searching some we got to know that someone had infected his box with. we had to format and reconfigure everything. Just for all linux system administrators..keep eye on this http://www.sans.org/resources/malwarefaq/t0rn_rootkit.php quite intersting.. Regards, Peeyush Maurya http://www.linux-faqs.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 20:16:22 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:16:22 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On 5/12/05, phil wrote: > On May 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > > Could it be that the reason you have recieve paternalistic and > > complacent responses from bureaucrats is that the issues you raised > > appeared childish and trivial to them? > > Probably not. Why would you assume such a thing? (And even if you > knew what you were talking about, they *shouldn't* perceive the waste > of public money as being "childish and trivial".) They aren't perceiving their approach to purchasing software as a waste of public money, and to assume that spending money on proprietary software is such is quite likely to appear childish and trivializing of the issues. Where are the "free software hospital management systems?" Contact a "Linux enthusiast," and what they will "easily find" is someone that imagines that installing Apache, MySQL, and a few Perl and Bash scripts represents "building a system." And who imagines that avoiding a few reboots a year represents "high reliability." (When the medical industry has quite a bit of VMS in place, where VMS fans look at those "Pee Cee" things as unreliable toys, in comparison, and where clustering is a sufficiently mature technology that VMS is actually well down the "obsolete" path...) If they go out and talk to traditional proprietary vendors, they can easily find systems that can more or less completely cover the operations of a hospital. Are there bits missing? Sure. But is there some sort of systematic coverage of 80% of the functionality needed? Almost certainly. Linux is great stuff if you're needing to roll out servers with tools for _building_ applications, but you'd better be able to tell them how to migrate their MUMPS applications. You can, by the way; there is a "free software" implementation of MUMPS that runs nicely on Linux. But you'd better know about that, and know how THAT sort of thing fits with their systems. It would be meaningful for someone to go in and explain how GT.M represents a way of getting a higher performance replacement for their aging VAXen. (Which assumes you have a compelling understanding of GT.M, MUMPS, and VAX/VMS...) But tell them that LAMP + OpenOffice.org will "solve all their problems," and the time spent will be perceived as a "childish and trivial" waste of time money... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 20:35:54 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:35:54 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050512163554.24060973.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:16:22 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > Where are the "free software hospital management systems?" http://worldvista.org/openvista/index.html > But tell them that LAMP + OpenOffice.org will "solve all their > problems," and the time spent will be perceived as a "childish and > trivial" waste of time money... Well, I'd rather tell them to explain why they haven't given something like Vista a good look. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 21:52:09 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:52:09 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <16F88CF1-C330-11D9-A97A-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On May 12, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > But tell them that LAMP + OpenOffice.org will "solve all their > problems," and the time spent will be perceived as a "childish and > trivial" waste of time money... But since that's not what was done, the insult still seems gratuitous. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 22:30:11 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:30:11 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on THEIR ability In-Reply-To: <16F88CF1-C330-11D9-A97A-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> <20050512090613.6067fd90.rob@cheapersafer.com> <80DCD63E-C2E8-11D9-85BE-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <428386ED.8090207@ca.afilias.info> <16F88CF1-C330-11D9-A97A-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <4283D8F3.8030805@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 phil wrote: > On May 12, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> But tell them that LAMP + OpenOffice.org will "solve all their >> problems," and the time spent will be perceived as a "childish and >> trivial" waste of time money... > > But since that's not what was done, the insult still seems gratuitous. Sorry, what insult? I think Chris is giving a pretty fair example of the kind of silly advocacy that is all to often found when linux hobbists assume that what works for them in their garage applies equally well to very different situations. I initially asked a question, and I guess it was a little to clever for it's own good. I appologize, but I find wordplay and symmetry hard to resist. The question was "Could it be that the reason you have recieve paternalistic and complacent responses from bureaucrats is that the issues you raised /appeared/ childish and trivial to them?" (emphasis added) I was trying to point out that the importance of issues people in the OSS world are deeply familiar with is not generally not recognized by people who are not involved with OSS. Pointing out the existance of some free software (what an unfortunate name) and then getting annoyed because a politician doesn't realize all the other issues involved is rather silly. The politician will see that it's "Free" software and assume that you're talking about purchase price. As we all know, the purchase price of (some of) the software is a pretty small factor in TCO of a system as complicated and mission critical as a a medical information system. So, I'll re-iterate what I said before. "Maybe you'd have more success if you tried to understand the issues that matter to them and then see where solutions which would address your issues coincide with solutions which would address theirs?" A large part of influencing their decision making process involves getting a very clear idea of what they're trying to accomplish, and helping them understand the issues. In other words, communication is key. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCg9jzgfzn5SevSpoRAgFNAJ4wMhBOo77wnk98nns+G3p12l57TgCcDWaU Jdz1laHrt74VBVyXO3K3tsE= =cKWd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 22:35:57 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:35:57 -0400 Subject: sad commentary on our ability to spread the word in areas which really count In-Reply-To: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512123114.050101BAFFE@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20050512223557.GA15179@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 08:26:37PM -0400, bob wrote: >http://homepage.mac.com/yaztromo/iblog/C721686556/E320292175/ The article supports what my wife said - there was almost no one at the conference who understood enough about Open Source to counter the profoundly uninformed opinions (not positions - positions can be supported) of the panelists. What amuses me is the opinion that Open Source software in general and Linux specifically is not mature/stable/supported enough for "real" work. The author of the linked article makes much of the fact that the Canada Health Infoway has $1.8 B CDN to spend on medical informatics. This is a pittance, and Canada's health information is trivial compared to systems already in place. JP Morgan Chase is an investment bank with $1.2 T (trillion) USD in holdings - you cannot tell me that they take their information systems lightly - and they are using Linux, supported by IBM to the tune of $5 B USD. China and Brazil, both with massive resource-driven economies, are committed to using Linux. Christopher Browne's comments are very much on point - it takes a great deal of knowledge about the systems currently in place to make a realistic proposal, but I contend that there are people ready and able to produce medical informatics systems based on Open Source infrastructure and licensed under Open Source licenses available right now, if people care to look, and value the benefits provided by freedom. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 12 12:02:46 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:02:46 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> Message-ID: <200505120802.46931.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 11, 2005 11:29 pm, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Hey everyone, > > A friend of mine is trying to get his wireless card working with Mepis, > but it's not. It's a D-Link G-520 (Revision B), which apparently is a > problem... > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-29446.html > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a PCI card that will work with > Debian/Mepis that you can buy at FutureShop? (And if not FutureShop, what > store and what card?) > > thanks! > emma If you can find a local supplier for these low-cost units they work well under linux. It is sing the realtek chipset, and they list linux support right on the box. http://startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=PCI555WG&mt=n I think it uses the realtek RTL8180L driver. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 02:55:32 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:55:32 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser Message-ID: Hi, I've got a newby question on a php set up problem. This is probably a trivial question, but I'm stuck on it and would be grateful for any help I can find. I set up apache/php/other application on linux using http://www.apachefriends.org/en/. Everything including their test step worked fine. But, when I tried to open a php file on my computer using mozilla I got the following error message: The file "hello.php" is of type application/x-httpd-php, and Mozilla does not know how to handle this file type. The file is located at: /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php What should Mozilla do with this file? The strange thing is that Mozilla does recognize/open .php files on the internet (just not on my computer). And opera seemed to be able to open the .php file on my computer but I'm not sure it displayed correctly. Following what I found on google I tried modifying the httpd config file: /etc/apache/httpd.conf and adding the line: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php and then restarging http using: httpd:/opt/lampp/bin/httpd -k restart But still no luck. Does anyone have any suggestions? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 03:22:00 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:22:00 -0400 Subject: ODBC / FreeTDS on Knoppix/Debian Message-ID: <99a6c38f050512202255f77d8f@mail.gmail.com> I'm praying someone out there has configured unixODBC and FreeTDS on Debian before... I've been at this steady for about week now (still learning how to customize Knoppix, and Debian in general. Till now, I was almost entirely a RedHat guy). This particular issue, however, is driving me absolutely bananas. I'm trying to put together a Knoppix CD with unixODBC and FreeTDS pre-configured; everything's going well - except that I can't configure unixODBC and FreeTDS! Maybe I'll have to break down and just compile/build instead of using the apt packages, but if anyone knows how to determine where unixODBC is looking for it's DSN's it would save me some grief. Unfortunately, I'm already overdue on this project. :( Here's some output for anyone interested in the problem: (using unixodbc-2.2.4-11, freetds0-0.53-7) [ -- output starts --] root at 2[tests]# echo $ODBCSYSINI /etc/odbc.ini root at 2[tests]# echo $FREETDS /etc/freetds/freetds.conf root at 2[tests]# cat $ODBCSYSINI [Default] Driver = FreeTDS [LOKI_TEST] Driver = FreeTDS Description = Test Database on Loki Trace = No Servername = LOKI Database = Northwind UID = tuser root at 2[tests]# cat $FREETDS # # # $Id: freetds.conf,v 1.7 2002/10/17 15:11:02 castellano Exp $ # # The freetds.conf file is a replacement for the original interfaces (comments snipped for brevity) # # Global settings, any value here may be overridden by a database # server specific section [global] # TDS protocol version tds version = 4.2 initial block size = 512 swap broken dates = no swap broken money = no # Database server login method, if both server and domain # logins are enabled, domain login is tried first if a domain # is specified, and if that fails the server login will be used. try server login = yes try domain login = no # The default authentication domain, can be overridden by # specifying a username with a domain prefix, e.g. DOMAIN\username ; nt domain = WORKGROUP # If the server responds with different domain try that one? cross domain login = no # Whether to write a TDSDUMP file for diagnostic purposes # (setting this to /tmp is insecure on a multi-user system) ; dump file = /tmp/freetds.log ; debug level = 10 # Command and connection timeouts ; timeout = 10 ; connect timeout = 10 # If you get out of memory errors, it may mean that your client # is trying to allocate a huge buffer for a TEXT field. # (Microsoft servers sometimes pretend TEXT columns are # 4 GB wide!) If you have this problem, try setting # 'text size' to a more reasonable limit text size = 64512 (more comments and samples snipped) # Test Server [LOKI] host = 192.168.0.101 port = 1433 tds version = 7.0 root at 2[tests]# cat /etc/odbcinst.ini [FreeTDS] Description = TDS driver (Sybase/MS SQL) Driver = /usr/lib/odbc/libtdsodbc.so Setup = /usr/lib/odbc/libtdsS.so FileUsage = 1 root at 2[tests]# perl test.pl DBI connect('LOKI_TEST','tuser',...) failed: [unixODBC][Driver Manager]Data source name not found, and no default driver specified (SQL-IM002)(DBD: db_login/SQLConnect err=-1) at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.3/SAL/DBI.pm line 142 [unixODBC][Driver Manager]Data source name not found, and no default driver specified (SQL-IM002)(DBD: db_login/SQLConnect err=-1) at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.3/SAL/DBI.pm line 142 SAL::DBI::spawn_odbc('SAL::DBI=HASH(0x8843d28)','LOKI_TEST','tuser','tuser','Northwind') called at test.pl line 8 root at 2[tests]# [ -- output ends --] Any and all help will would be most appreciated. Thanks, - Scott -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 03:26:01 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 May 2005, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi, I've got a newby question on a php set up problem. This is probably a > trivial question, but I'm stuck on it and would be grateful for any help I > can find. > > I set up apache/php/other application on linux using > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/. > > Everything including their test step worked fine. > > But, when I tried to open a php file on my computer using mozilla I got > the following error message: > > The file "hello.php" is of type application/x-httpd-php, and Mozilla does > not know how to handle this file type. The file is located at: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php What should Mozilla do with this > file? > > The strange thing is that Mozilla does recognize/open .php files on the internet (just not on > my computer). And opera seemed to be able to open the .php file > on my computer but I'm not sure it displayed correctly. The web server interprets the php, not the browser, When you pass a file to the browser, it does not use the web server. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 03:26:15 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:26:15 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <42833D6B.1040602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:26:35AM -0400, James Knott wrote > Walter Dnes wrote: > It would take a bit of analysis to decide where your bottleneck is. > >If it's CPU bound, a faster CPU would help. If it's disk access, get > >more memory to cut down on swapping and consider moving temp files to > >/dev/shm to reduce disk access. > > > > What's /dev/shm? Think of it as a dynamic ramdisk. It only uses memory when it's actually required. Check your /etc/fstab and you should see an entry there, unless it's an older distro. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 03:37:13 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:37:13 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505122037647915c0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Alex, What version of apache are you running? (also curious, which linux distro?) You should be able to find the version of apache with "httpd -V" -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 03:39:54 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:39:54 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050513032615.GA29674-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4@mail.gmail.com> > > What's /dev/shm? > > Think of it as a dynamic ramdisk. It only uses memory when it's > actually required. Check your /etc/fstab and you should see an entry > there, unless it's an older distro. That's actually kinda cool. :-) Goona have to Google it. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 04:00:21 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 04:00:21 +0000 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/13/05, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi, I've got a newby question on a php set up problem. This is probably a > trivial question, but I'm stuck on it and would be grateful for any help I > can find. > > I set up apache/php/other application on linux using > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/. > > Everything including their test step worked fine. > > But, when I tried to open a php file on my computer using mozilla I got > the following error message: > > The file "hello.php" is of type application/x-httpd-php, and Mozilla does > not know how to handle this file type. The file is located at: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php What should Mozilla do with this > file? That evidently means that instead of Apache invoking the PHP interpreter on the file, it is, instead, sending the PHP file as a document. You presumably need some change of configuration to Apache to make it run the PHP file. I think I once accomplished this by changing execute permissions on the file; something like "chmod a+x hello.php" There's probably something you can do to Apache instead. > The strange thing is that Mozilla does recognize/open .php files on the internet > (just not on > my computer). And opera seemed to be able to open the .php file > on my computer but I'm not sure it displayed correctly. The Dumb Thing is for applications to export that sort of information. http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html "Cool URIs don't change." It's arguable that having suffixes on documents on the web is downright WRONG. In the above sorts of cases, it's certainly causing you confusion; you are thinking that a ".php file" is something that your web browser should be processing, which is Absolutely Wrong. -> When a URI ends in .asp, that DOESN'T mean your browser has to have a VB interpreter in it -> When a URI ends in .cgi, that doesn't imply ANYTHING about what your web browser does. Likewise... (loop for suffix in '("pl" "pl" "py" "jsp" "class" "o" "asp" "php") for language in '(prolog perl python JavaServerPages Java C VB PHP4) do (format t "A URI ending in ~A doesn't imply your web browser does ~A work~%")) The suffix of the URL doesn't have to mean anything. Indeed, with suitable web server configuration, there oughtn't need to be a suffix. Indeed, with a suitably sophisticated configuration, it ought to be possible for the web browser to tell something of its capabilities and for the web server to, when asked for http://linuxdatabases.info/info/slony, the most suitable form for your web browser. That might even be as a PDF file. The article about URIs presents a pretty good case for having the outside world's perspective on your URIs be Very Simple, and not necessarily identical to the names of the files that sit on your server. -- http://linuxdatabases.info/info/slony.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 04:14:53 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:14:53 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050512211442c97c5e@mail.gmail.com> > Goona have to Google it. Just in case anyone else is looking for mor info on this, IBM has a page here: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs3.html Are there any better links that describe how to use /dev/shm? (or man/info pages?) Thx, - Scott. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 04:27:14 2005 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:27:14 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050506221422.GD24185-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> On 5/6/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > Mine have taken lately to printing test pages on the printer. I > hope they don't figure out how to send faxes. > One of my old cats liked to play with the speakerphone, hitting the speaker button then swiping at the keypad. It was pretty funny until one day I caught him punching in 011.... on the keypad. //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 04:40:07 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:40:07 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <22318ee505051221271c45d84-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> > One of my old cats liked to play with the speakerphone, hitting the > speaker button then swiping at the keypad. It was pretty funny until > one day I caught him punching in 011.... on the keypad. Better than 911 on the phone! ;-) (Dog's Rule!) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 04:42:47 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:42:47 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050512214051e28730-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/05, psema4 wrote: > > One of my old cats liked to play with the speakerphone, hitting the > > speaker button then swiping at the keypad. It was pretty funny until > > one day I caught him punching in 011.... on the keypad. > > Better than 911 on the phone! ;-) 911 is the emergency # in Canada/US. I've heard reference to 011 and a couple other numbers that do the same thing in other countries... In that case.... Cat's rule! lol. ;-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 09:02:59 2005 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 05:02:59 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22318ee5050513020276eaca93@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/05, psema4 wrote: > On 5/13/05, psema4 wrote: > > > One of my old cats liked to play with the speakerphone, hitting the > > > speaker button then swiping at the keypad. It was pretty funny until > > > one day I caught him punching in 011.... on the keypad. > > > > Better than 911 on the phone! ;-) > > 911 is the emergency # in Canada/US. I've heard reference to 011 and > a couple other numbers that do the same thing in other countries... > > In that case.... Cat's rule! lol. ;-) > > -- > - SGE 011 is the internation long distance prefix in Canada/US. Fortunately the cat dialed an invalid country code so I didn't get a monster phone bill. //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 10:07:34 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 06:07:34 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050513100734.GA17309@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Other respondents have been telling you that it is apache that should be interpreting PHP files, so that's covered. Things to look for: In httpd.conf: DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php ^^^^^^^^^ Remind the server that these files are acceptable as index files when a directory is requested. In modules.conf: LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? That's all I ever had to do. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 11:08:10 2005 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:08:10 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050512182258.GB2288-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>; from opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org on Thu, May 12, 2005 at 14:22:58 -0400 References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> <20050512182258.GB2288@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050513110810.GC2076@localhost> On Thu May 12,2005 02:22:58 PM William Park wrote: > 2. To go back even more, search the history buffer for 'cd '. In > vi-mode command-line, it is > /cd This doesn't work if various commands are used to change directories in addition to cd, such as pushd, popd, aliases, custom commands. I still think a separate directory history, like what pushd/popd keeps, but with random access, would be nice. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 11:42:31 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:42:31 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050513032615.GA29674-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <428492A7.6000009@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:26:35AM -0400, James Knott wrote > >>Walter Dnes wrote: >> It would take a bit of analysis to decide where your bottleneck is. >> >>>If it's CPU bound, a faster CPU would help. If it's disk access, get >>>more memory to cut down on swapping and consider moving temp files to >>>/dev/shm to reduce disk access. >>> >> >>What's /dev/shm? > > > Think of it as a dynamic ramdisk. It only uses memory when it's > actually required. Check your /etc/fstab and you should see an entry > there, unless it's an older distro. > It's not mentioned in my fstab (SuSE 9.2), but it does exist. The only thing currently in it, is "Desktop", last written on Apr 24. It's owned by root. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 12:33:34 2005 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:33:34 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368A@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> I have a customer who had a DEC Alpha computer that just died and I am trying to get the information off the Hard Drives. I can read some of the partitions using Knoppix, but there several that are unreadable and I need to be able to read these. Does anyone know where I could locate a DEC Alpha system that would read these hard drives? Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 905-363-1600 905-363-4297 Ext. 248 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 905-363-1194? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 12:47:31 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:47:31 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <428492A7.6000009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> <428492A7.6000009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4284A1E3.8070702@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> Think of it as a dynamic ramdisk. It only uses memory when it's >> actually required. Check your /etc/fstab and you should see an entry >> there, unless it's an older distro. >> > > It's not mentioned in my fstab (SuSE 9.2), but it does exist. The only > thing currently in it, is "Desktop", last written on Apr 24. It's owned > by root. > > It appears that "Desktop" is created at boot up. It's even on a system where I don't use a GUI. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:06:29 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:06:29 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050513130629.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 10:55:32PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi, I've got a newby question on a php set up problem. This is probably a > trivial question, but I'm stuck on it and would be grateful for any help I > can find. > > I set up apache/php/other application on linux using > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/. > > Everything including their test step worked fine. > > But, when I tried to open a php file on my computer using mozilla I got > the following error message: > > The file "hello.php" is of type application/x-httpd-php, and Mozilla does > not know how to handle this file type. The file is located at: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php What should Mozilla do with this > file? > > The strange thing is that Mozilla does recognize/open .php files on the internet (just not on > my computer). And opera seemed to be able to open the .php file > on my computer but I'm not sure it displayed correctly. > > Following what I found on google I tried modifying the httpd config file: > /etc/apache/httpd.conf and adding the line: > AddType application/x-httpd-php .php > and then restarging http using: > httpd:/opt/lampp/bin/httpd -k restart > > But still no luck. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? Make apache realize php files should be run through the php interpreter, not sent to the user. LoadModule php4 AddType application/x-httpd-php .php I tend to add .php3 to the above as well for backwards compatibility. Maybe add to index list so index.php is a valid option for a directory. No special permissions needed on the php file (other than allowing the web server to read it). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:11:21 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:11:21 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 12:42:47AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > 911 is the emergency # in Canada/US. I've heard reference to 011 and > a couple other numbers that do the same thing in other countries... > > In that case.... Cat's rule! lol. ;-) 011.... is how you call internationall from north america (at least most of it). Ie to call +45 12 34 56 78 you would dial 011 45 12 34 56 78. Most of the EU (if not all of it) uses 112 as the emergency number, while it used to be 999 or 000 in many places (both of which took forever on rotary phones. Gotta wonder who came up with those). To make things better, places like denmark had special services (like current time and weather and such) as 00xx numbers. Had to be careful not to hit an extra 0 in there. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:12:17 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:12:17 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368A-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368A@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20050513131217.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 08:33:34AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > I have a customer who had a DEC Alpha computer that just died and I am trying to get the information off the Hard Drives. I can read some of the partitions using Knoppix, but there several that are unreadable and I need to be able to read these. > > Does anyone know where I could locate a DEC Alpha system that would read these hard drives? What OS was it running? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:13:17 2005 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:13:17 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368F@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> DEC Alpha OSF/1 Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 905-363-1600 905-363-4297 Ext. 248 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 905-363-1194? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:12 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: DEC Alpha Anyone? On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 08:33:34AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > I have a customer who had a DEC Alpha computer that just died and I am trying to get the information off the Hard Drives. I can read some of the partitions using Knoppix, but there several that are unreadable and I need to be able to read these. > > Does anyone know where I could locate a DEC Alpha system that would read these hard drives? What OS was it running? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:14:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:14:07 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050513131407.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 11:39:54PM -0400, psema4 wrote: > That's actually kinda cool. :-) > > Goona have to Google it. Dynamic size ramdisk are very useful. Solaris has had it for years, the amiga had it, as did many other systems (except not any microsoft OS as far as I can tell). Not sure if the mac ever had it, but I think it did. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:15:16 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:15:16 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050512211442c97c5e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512211442c97c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050513131516.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 12:14:53AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > Just in case anyone else is looking for mor info on this, IBM has a page here: > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs3.html > > Are there any better links that describe how to use /dev/shm? (or > man/info pages?) One option is something like: mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /ramdrive Then just read write files to /ramdrive as you normally would. Many systems mount tmpfs as /tmp. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:24:13 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:24:13 -0400 Subject: Madwifi question In-Reply-To: <428381F7.1050703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428381F7.1050703@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/12/05, John McGregor wrote: > I've got a newbie-esque question to ask the list. I have an Atheros wifi > card in my laptop > that I would like to get working. I've done a fair bit of research and > it looks like I'll have > the best shot with the madwifi driver. The problem is that Mandriva > lists 5 different rpms > for madwifi: > > - madwifi-0.20050121-2mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-0.20050121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdkBOOT-0.20050121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i586-up-1GB-0.20020121-1mdk > - madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-i686-up-4GB-0.20050121-1mdk > > The question is which one do I use? Uname -r gives 2.6.11 as the > installed kernel and > the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite with a 2.8Ghz Celeron and 512 MB ram. I'm not very familar with the Mandrake kernels but generally for Madwifi to work you need the supporting applications ( madwifi-0.20050121-2mdk ) and the kernel module. The kernel modules are setup to match the compiler options for the stock kernel your using. You can also compile your own custom kernel but might need to compile any other supporting modules ( video, ethernet etc... ). It would appear that you're running a stock 2.6.11 kernel so you'd probably need: madwifi-0.20050121-2mdk madwifi-kernel-2.6.11-6mdk-0.20050121-1mdk You would probably get some performance benefits from running the i686 version with a P4 2.8ghz too. You might want to look into switching to that, make sure you get all your required kernel modules too. The kernel modules are setup to match the compiler options for the stock kernel your using. You can also compile your own custom kernel but might need to compile any other supporting modules ( video, ethernet etc... ). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:35:21 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:35:21 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0505122037647915c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505122037647915c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Thank you. I'm running Apache/2.0.53 and have Libranet version of Debian. Mozilla was installed with Libranet. I installed Apache separately (not through Libranet/Debian, since the all in one install at http://www.apachefriends.org/en/ looked easier). Alex On Thu, 12 May 2005, psema4 wrote: > Hi Alex, > > What version of apache are you running? (also curious, which linux distro?) > > You should be able to find the version of apache with "httpd -V" > > -- > - SGE > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:23:45 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <20050513100734.GA17309-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050513100734.GA17309@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > Other respondents have been telling you that it is apache that should be > interpreting PHP files, so that's covered. Things to look for: > > In httpd.conf: > > DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php > ^^^^^^^^^ > Remind the server that these files are acceptable as index files when a > directory is requested. > > In modules.conf: > > LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? > > That's all I ever had to do. But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will read the file directly and not use the web server. The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. I went through a similar situation with shtml files. When I put the files on a remote server, everything was fine. When I accessed it locally, the file was empty; all the contant was in included files. Once I used http:, all was fine. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:46:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:46:47 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368F-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5153368F@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20050513134647.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:13:17AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > DEC Alpha OSF/1 Hmm, not sure what filesystem and partition slicing (if any) that used. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:48:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:48:48 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0505122037647915c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050513134848.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:35:21AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Hi, Thank you. I'm running Apache/2.0.53 and have Libranet version of > Debian. Mozilla was installed with Libranet. I installed Apache > separately (not through Libranet/Debian, since the all in one install at > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/ looked easier). I very much suspect the all in one install is in fact much harder to setup than the debian packaged one. Debian has many small scripts than make automatically adding new features and packages to the apache config very easy, which apache themselves have never done. Using the system's package manager really is the simplest solution for making everything just work together. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:05:25 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:05:25 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <20050513100734.GA17309-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050513100734.GA17309@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William, > > In httpd.conf: > > DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php Thanks you. I didn't have thisline and have added it in. > ^^^^^^^^^ > In modules.conf: > > LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? I don't have this line either, but my modules.conf contains the warning: # DO NOT MODIFY THIS FILE! This file is automatically generated by update-modules" which executes /sbin/update-modules.modutils which I'm not sure how to modify. Should I ignore the warning and the line into modules.conf anyway? Thank you for your help. Alex > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 13:33:47 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050513110810.GC2076@localhost> References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> <20050512182258.GB2288@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513110810.GC2076@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Scott Allen wrote: > On Thu May 12,2005 02:22:58 PM William Park wrote: >> 2. To go back even more, search the history buffer for 'cd '. In >> vi-mode command-line, it is >> /cd > > This doesn't work if various commands are used to change directories in > addition to cd, such as pushd, popd, aliases, custom commands. I still think > a separate directory history, like what pushd/popd keeps, but with random > access, would be nice. You already have random access with popd: popd: popd [+N | -N] [-n] Removes entries from the directory stack. With no arguments, removes the top directory from the stack, and cd's to the new top directory. +N removes the Nth entry counting from the left of the list shown by `dirs', starting with zero. For example: `popd +0' removes the first directory, `popd +1' the second. -N removes the Nth entry counting from the right of the list shown by `dirs', starting with zero. For example: `popd -0' removes the last directory, `popd -1' the next to last. -n suppress the normal change of directory when removing directories from the stack, so only the stack is manipulated. You can see the directory stack with the `dirs' command -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:08:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:08:40 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: <20050513100734.GA17309@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050513140840.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:05:25AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > William, > > > > > In httpd.conf: > > > > DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php > > Thanks you. I didn't have thisline and have added it in. > > > ^^^^^^^^^ > > In modules.conf: > > > > LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? > > I don't have this line either, but my modules.conf contains the warning: > > # DO NOT MODIFY THIS FILE! > This file is automatically generated by update-modules" > which executes /sbin/update-modules.modutils which I'm not sure > how to modify. > > Should I ignore the warning and the line into modules.conf anyway? > > Thank you for your help. The apache modules file, not the modprobe /etc/modules.conf. Go look in /etc/apache or wherever your system puts the apache config. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:17:23 2005 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:17:23 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Ok I was able to see some partitions and I checked the fstab file and found out the file system was UFS. Some partitions are not readable and using mount -t ufs returns a superblock error. I was surfing last night and found out that these partitions might be using advfs. Does this help? Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 905-363-1600 905-363-4297 Ext. 248 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 905-363-1194? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:47 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: DEC Alpha Anyone? On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:13:17AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > DEC Alpha OSF/1 Hmm, not sure what filesystem and partition slicing (if any) that used. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:31:30 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:31:30 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <20050513140840.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050513140840.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:05:25AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > > William, > > > > > In modules.conf: > > > > > > LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? > > > > I don't have this line either, but my modules.conf contains the warning: > > > > # DO NOT MODIFY THIS FILE! > > This file is automatically generated by update-modules" > > which executes /sbin/update-modules.modutils which I'm not sure > > how to modify. > > > > Should I ignore the warning and the line into modules.conf anyway? > > > > Thank you for your help. > > The apache modules file, not the modprobe /etc/modules.conf. Go look in > /etc/apache or wherever your system puts the apache config. Thank you. I'm glad I didn't modify that. I'm not sure if I have the right modules.conf file then (or maybe it is named differently) In etc/apache I have only (no modules.conf) access.conf httpd.conf httpd.conf.old mime.types conf httpd.conf.0 httpd.conf~ srm.conf Using locate (updatedb was run after installing apche) I find: root at libranet:/etc/apache# locate modules.conf /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/default-modules.conf /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/extra-modules.conf /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/ssl-modules.conf /etc/modules.conf /etc/modules.conf.old /etc/vfs/modules/default-modules.conf /etc/vfs/modules/ssl-modules.conf /usr/share/man/man5/modules.conf.5.gz /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-modules.conffiles /var/lib/dpkg/info/perl-modules.conffiles Alex > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:32:26 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:32:26 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will > read the file directly and not use the web server. > > The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in > your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) > and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. Thank you. I tried this. At least I get a different error now. I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly. I used mkdir to add a public_html directory in home user directory (do I need to do something fancier or put this somewhere else?) The permissions are: drwxr-xr-x 2 amaynard amaynard 112 May 13 09:57 public_html/ Then I copied the php file into this directory, with permissions: -rw-rw-r-- 1 amaynard amaynard 111 May 12 19:28 hello.php The I pointed the browser to http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php but got a permission error this time (different from what I had before): Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~amaynard/php/hello.php on this server. Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP/5.0.4 DAV/2 mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 Server at localhost Port 80 Am I setting up the public_html in the wrong way/place? Alex > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson > ================================================================== > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:31:17 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:31:17 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050513143117.GA19491@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >On Fri, 13 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: >> /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will >> read the file directly and not use the web server. >> >> The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in >> your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) >> and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. > > >Thank you. I tried this. At least I get a different error now. I'm not >sure if I'm doing this correctly. I used mkdir to add a >public_html directory in home user directory (do I need to do something >fancier or put this somewhere else?) The permissions are: >drwxr-xr-x 2 amaynard amaynard 112 May 13 09:57 public_html/ > >Then I copied the php file into this directory, with permissions: >-rw-rw-r-- 1 amaynard amaynard 111 May 12 19:28 hello.php > >The I pointed the browser to http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php >but got a permission error this time (different from what I had before): You didn't create a php directory, so there's nothing there - try this: http://localhost/~amaynard/hello.php Also, you are using Apache2, so look in /etc/apache2 for you httpd.conf and modules.conf. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:49:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:49:47 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20050513144946.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:17:23AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Ok I was able to see some partitions and I checked the fstab file and found out the file system was UFS. > > Some partitions are not readable and using mount -t ufs returns a superblock error. > > I was surfing last night and found out that these partitions might be using advfs. > > Does this help? It might, if you have a system that can read those filesystems. I don't think Linux does any fo them other than UFS. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 14:54:32 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:54:32 -0400 Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20050513145432.GA2406@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:17:23AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Ok I was able to see some partitions and I checked the fstab file and > found out the file system was UFS. > > Some partitions are not readable and using mount -t ufs returns a > superblock error. > > I was surfing last night and found out that these partitions might be > using advfs. > > Does this help? Install (after compiling if necessary) all filesystem kernel modules you can think of. Then, try mount -t auto ... or go through each filesystem. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 15:59:10 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:59:10 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <20050513143117.GA19491-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050513143117.GA19491@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > >On Fri, 13 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > >> But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: > >> /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will > >> read the file directly and not use the web server. > >> > >> The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in > >> your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) > >> and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. > > > > > >Thank you. I tried this. At least I get a different error now. I'm not > >sure if I'm doing this correctly. I used mkdir to add a > >public_html directory in home user directory (do I need to do something > >fancier or put this somewhere else?) The permissions are: > >drwxr-xr-x 2 amaynard amaynard 112 May 13 09:57 public_html/ > > > >Then I copied the php file into this directory, with permissions: > >-rw-rw-r-- 1 amaynard amaynard 111 May 12 19:28 hello.php > > > >The I pointed the browser to http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php > >but got a permission error this time (different from what I had before): > > You didn't create a php directory, so there's nothing there - try this: > http://localhost/~amaynard/hello.php Sorry that was a dumb mistake I made, but I get the same error even after correcting it and pointing to: You don't have permission to access /~amaynard/hello.php on this server. Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP/5.0.4 DAV/2 mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 Server at localhost Port 80 > > Also, you are using Apache2, so look in /etc/apache2 for you httpd.conf > and modules.conf. It doesn't look like I have an apache2 directory in /etc or anywhere else. root at libranet:/etc# locate apache2 /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO/hints-daemons-apache2.html Thanks very much. Alex > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 17:09:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:09:37 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: <20050513143117.GA19491@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050513170937.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 11:59:10AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Sorry that was a dumb mistake I made, but I get the same error even after > correcting it and pointing to: > > You don't have permission to access /~amaynard/hello.php on this server. > > Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an > ErrorDocument to handle the request. > Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP/5.0.4 DAV/2 > mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 Server at localhost Port 80 What are the permissions on public_html in your home dir and on your homedir itself? public_html must be o=rx, and your homedir needs at least o=r as far as I remember. What does this get you: grep php -r /etc/apache/ Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 17:13:42 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:13:42 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: <20050513100734.GA17309@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 5/13/05, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will > read the file directly and not use the web server. > > The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in > your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) > and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. I second this suggestion. Make sure you are pointing the browser to the URL and not the file. Franco -- On 5/13/05, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > > > Other respondents have been telling you that it is apache that should be > > interpreting PHP files, so that's covered. Things to look for: > > > > In httpd.conf: > > > > DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php > > ^^^^^^^^^ > > Remind the server that these files are acceptable as index files when a > > directory is requested. > > > > In modules.conf: > > > > LoadModule php?_module /path/to/libphp? > > > > That's all I ever had to do. > > But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: > /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will > read the file directly and not use the web server. > > The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in > your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) > and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. > > I went through a similar situation with shtml files. When I put the > files on a remote server, everything was fine. When I accessed it > locally, the file was empty; all the contant was in included files. > Once I used http:, all was fine. > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson > ================================================================== > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 17:47:02 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:47:02 -0700 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: References: <20050513143117.GA19491@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051310477bfbdd0c@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/05, Alex Maynard wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > > > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > >On Fri, 13 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > > > >> But that will not help if the URL is entered in the browser as: > > >> /home/amaynard/share/private_html/php/hello.php. The browser will > > >> read the file directly and not use the web server. > > >> > > >> The correct way to have Apache interpret the file is to put it in > > >> your public_html directory (if that's how you have Apache set up) > > >> and call it as: http://localhost/~amaynard/php/hello.php. [snip] > You don't have permission to access /~amaynard/hello.php on this server. > > Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an > ErrorDocument to handle the request. > Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP/5.0.4 DAV/2 > mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 Server at localhost Port 80 You might want to check your httpd.conf file and confirm that UserDir's are turned on. Look for the section: # # UserDir is disabled by default since it can confirm the presence # of a username on the system (depending on home directory # permissions). # UserDir disable # # To enable requests to /~user/ to serve the user's public_html # directory, remove the "UserDir disable" line above, and uncomment # the following line instead: # #UserDir public_html The forbidden ErrorDocument doesn't sound good though. You'll want to make sure that whatever user apache is running as can read the directory containing apache's error pages. (You should be able to find the directory by searching httpd.conf for "Alias /error/") -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 18:11:29 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:11:29 -0400 Subject: php files not recognized in browser In-Reply-To: <20050513170937.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050513170937.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: With a lots of help from this list I finally got this working. Among other things I had to point to the URL not file as suggested earlier and the final permissions problem was resolved by adding o=rx permissions to the home directory. Thank you all for being so generous with your advice (and for being so patient with an inexperienced newbie). Not only glad to get this working, but I learned a lot from your suggestions. Alex On Fri, 13 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 11:59:10AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Sorry that was a dumb mistake I made, but I get the same error even after > > correcting it and pointing to: > > > > You don't have permission to access /~amaynard/hello.php on this server. > > > > Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an > > ErrorDocument to handle the request. > > Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP/5.0.4 DAV/2 > > mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 Server at localhost Port 80 > > What are the permissions on public_html in your home dir and on your > homedir itself? Thank you. Once I set permissions as below it worked. drwxr-xr-x 2 amaynard amaynard 112 May 13 09:57 public_html/ drwxr-xr-- 39 amaynard amaynard 3672 May 13 13:35 amaynard drwxr-xr-x 39 amaynard amaynard 3672 May 13 13:39 amaynard/ > > public_html must be o=rx, and your homedir needs at least o=r as far as > I remember. > > What does this get you: > > grep php -r /etc/apache/ Here's what this gives: grep: warning: /etc/apache/conf: recursive directory loop /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old:# LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old: # distribution - see http://www.php.net) will typically use: /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old: #AddType application/x-httpd-php3 .php3 /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old: #AddType application/x-httpd-php3-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old: #AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/httpd.conf.old: #AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0:# LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0: # distribution - see http://www.php.net) will typically use: /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0: #AddType application/x-httpd-php3 .php3 /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0: #AddType application/x-httpd-php3-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0: #AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/httpd.conf.0: #AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf:# LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so /etc/apache/httpd.conf: DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.cgi index.php /etc/apache/httpd.conf: # distribution - see http://www.php.net) will typically use: /etc/apache/httpd.conf: AddType application/x-httpd-php3 .php3 /etc/apache/httpd.conf: AddType application/x-httpd-php3-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/httpd.conf: AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf: #AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/httpd.conf~:# LoadModule php4_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libphp4.so /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: # distribution - see http://www.php.net) will typically use: /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: AddType application/x-httpd-php3 .php3 /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: AddType application/x-httpd-php3-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps /etc/apache/httpd.conf~: #AddType application/x-httpd-php .php /etc/apache/mime.types:application/x-httpd-php phtml pht php /etc/apache/mime.types:application/x-httpd-php-source phps /etc/apache/mime.types:application/x-httpd-php3 php3 /etc/apache/mime.types:application/x-httpd-php3-preprocessed php3p /etc/apache/mime.types:application/x-httpd-php4 php4 > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 18:06:45 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:06:45 -0400 Subject: Forwarded communications Message-ID: <1116007605.31535.3.camel@localhost> Hi, I am currently looking for VoIP provider that can provide me with phone number in a few countries. I heard on VoIP BOF at Linux World, there was such provider, if you can point that one to me, that would be great. I am looking to use Asterisk with it. regards, Pavel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 18:07:47 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 21:07:47 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050513131121.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > while it used to be 999 or 000 in many places (both of which took > forever on rotary phones. Gotta wonder who came up with those). To the telecom people who knew from experience that 000 is the number that is least likely to be dialed by glitch in a rotary dialer system. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 18:18:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:18:27 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050513181827.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:07:47PM +0300, Peter wrote: > the telecom people who knew from experience that 000 is the number that > is least likely to be dialed by glitch in a rotary dialer system. Well glitches can dial 911 quite easily. I had a phoneline a few years ago that went staticy on me, and sometimes just didn't work. After a few days of this, I got a call in the morning while sleeping from 911 asking if there was a problem because they just got a call from there, so I told them my line had been acting up. After that it became rather urgent on Bell's part to figure out what was wrong with the line, and after a few days (with a few dispatches from 911 because of "calls" from the line) they detected a short to ground when it started raining. After that they replaced the line in the ground and the problem went away. Apparently a broken phone line shorting to ground can pulse 911 fairly regularly. I suppose it pulsed other numbers too at random, but none of those ever called back, or at least not persistently enough to get through. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 18:32:27 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:32:27 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050513183227.GA25800@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:07:47PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > > On Fri, 13 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >while it used to be 999 or 000 in many places (both of which took > >forever on rotary phones. Gotta wonder who came up with those). To > > the telecom people who knew from experience that 000 is the number that > is least likely to be dialed by glitch in a rotary dialer system. I recall reading once that the 1-9,0 sequence used in North America was not universal and that 0-9 was used on some places (and also some places laid the digits out in revers order around the dial). So, 9 and 0 weren't the longest to dial everywhere. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:05:58 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:05:58 -0400 Subject: Forwarded communications In-Reply-To: <1116007605.31535.3.camel@localhost> References: <1116007605.31535.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050513190558.GD20581@sophocles> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 02:06:45PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > I am currently looking for VoIP provider that can provide me with phone > number in a few countries. I heard on VoIP BOF at Linux World, there was > such provider, if you can > point that one to me, that would be great. I am looking to use Asterisk > with it. I know that Vonage (http://www.vonage.ca) can do that for the US, Mexico, and the UK. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:16:09 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:16:09 -0400 Subject: Forwarded communications In-Reply-To: <1116007605.31535.3.camel@localhost> References: <1116007605.31535.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1116011769.4284fcf9d94da@geek-girls.ca> Quoting Pavel Zaitsev : > Hi, > I am currently looking for VoIP provider that can provide me with phone > number in a few countries. I heard on VoIP BOF at Linux World, there was > such provider, if you can > point that one to me, that would be great. I am looking to use Asterisk > with it. > regards, > Pavel There are a number of pages on the voip-info.org wiki which list DID providers. One which lists a number of them by country is: http://voip-info.org/wiki-Cheapest+ATAs+and+Service Enjoy! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:32:21 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:32:21 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050513181827.GR23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050513181827.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:07:47PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> the telecom people who knew from experience that 000 is the number that >> is least likely to be dialed by glitch in a rotary dialer system. > > Well glitches can dial 911 quite easily. I had a phoneline a few years > ago that went staticy on me, and sometimes just didn't work. After a If you have enough noise on a line then it will call ALL the possible numbers eventually. That was not what I was talking about. In a rotary system the 000 corresponds to the *longest* pulse sequence possible that is valid. If any glitches occur in the switching then they will mimick a *shorter* pulse sequence (as long as the delays and speeds are set right in the dialer and in the exchange - and they are so), or a *longer* pulse sequence. Exactly 0 (exactly 10 pulses) had the lowest probability to be jammed or glitched. 999 was likely a compromise adopted when 0/00 started being used for international/interurban automatic dialling probably. Afaik 00 was used as the prefix for interurban dialing precisely for this reason (low probability of glitch = low number of complaints for undesired interurban connects, and low load on interurban trunk selectors). 111 is the number with the highest glitch probability in a rotary dialer system. I don't know how they got from this to 911. There must be some clever reason for that too. 911 combines the low glitch probability for the first number with fast dialing (000 is the number that is the slowest to dial on a rotary dial - probably not fast enough if someone is breaking into your house at the time). But there may be a different reason. > Apparently a broken phone line shorting to ground can pulse 911 fairly > regularly. I suppose it pulsed other numbers too at random, but none of > those ever called back, or at least not persistently enough to get > through. I'm a hardware guy and I can tell you that a faulty part or wire can send all sorts of interesting data if you wait long enough. No coding system will withstand that kind of 'brute force' attack for too long, and systems where this is important do detect noise and signal it in time (and some will even shut down the link is there is too much noise). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:39:14 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:39:14 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050511060006.GA1953-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 5/11/05, William Park wrote: > I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash > shell? Unless I totally missed reading on this functionality.. I'd like to be able to type a partial command which exists in my history, and then press up/down to cycle through the entries in history which partially match what I typed. cd /foo echo bar echo # becomes echo bar cd #becomes cd /foo I'd also like to see proper control-left/right to hop words. I need to do more reading to get this sort of thing working properly everywhere. Half of the apps I use don't recognize proper key combinations. =/ As an aside, I'm still very very frustrated making the change from 4dos to bash, and although zsh is pretty good for certain things, its defaults are very broken from my perspective. The above is actually possible in zsh as I understand.. but I never got around to getting it working. 4dos was a dream to work with and I miss it a lot.. I'm still contemplating wrapping it in dosemu somehow to do some basic stuff, or otherwise attempt to bend an existing shell to my will to make it work the way I want. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:49:06 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC Alpha Anyone? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51533692@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <49910.206.186.8.130.1116013746.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Ok I was able to see some partitions and I checked the fstab file and > found out the file system was UFS. > > Some partitions are not readable and using mount -t ufs returns a > superblock error. > > I was surfing last night and found out that these partitions might be > using advfs. > > Does this help? > > Regards, > > Wil McGilvery > Manager > Lynch Digital Media Inc advfs or "Advanced File System" is a journaled file system similar to ext3 and others, is used on Tru64 Unix and as I recall, is a proprietary file system. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 19:57:11 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, Sy wrote: > On 5/11/05, William Park wrote: >> I've just added bunch of string operations into Bash shell. >> http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ >> >> While I'm at it, is there any features that you'd like to see in Bash >> shell? > > Unless I totally missed reading on this functionality.. I'd like to > be able to type a partial command which exists in my history, and then > press up/down to cycle through the entries in history which partially > match what I typed. > > > cd /foo > echo bar > > > echo # becomes echo bar > cd #becomes cd /foo Put this in your .inputrc file: "\e[2A": history-search-backward ## shift+up-arrow "\e[2B": history-search-forward ## shift+down-arrow (Adjust keystrokes to taste.) > I'd also like to see proper control-left/right to hop words. I need > to do more reading to get this sort of thing working properly > everywhere. Half of the apps I use don't recognize proper key > combinations. =/ "\eOd": backward-word "\eOc": forward-word Or, (depending on your terminal): "\e[1;5D": backward-word "\e[1;5C": forward-word > As an aside, I'm still very very frustrated making the change from > 4dos to bash, and although zsh is pretty good for certain things, its > defaults are very broken from my perspective. The above is actually > possible in zsh as I understand.. but I never got around to getting it > working. > > 4dos was a dream to work with and I miss it a lot.. I'm still > contemplating wrapping it in dosemu somehow to do some basic stuff, or > otherwise attempt to bend an existing shell to my will to make it work > the way I want. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 20:08:12 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:08:12 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <20050513183227.GA25800-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050513183227.GA25800@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: >> the telecom people who knew from experience that 000 is the number that >> is least likely to be dialed by glitch in a rotary dialer system. > > I recall reading once that the 1-9,0 sequence used in North > America was not universal and that 0-9 was used on some places > (and also some places laid the digits out in revers order around > the dial). So, 9 and 0 weren't the longest to dial everywhere. According to Google Anoine Barnay patented the rotary dial in 1923 but the following URL (and others) explains that it is due to Stowger, the American man who invented the rotary phone exchange in 1888 or so: http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Rotary_dial You were right about other countries using different numbering schemes. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 20:19:53 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:19:53 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 03:39:14PM -0400, Sy wrote: > Unless I totally missed reading on this functionality.. I'd like to > be able to type a partial command which exists in my history, and then > press up/down to cycle through the entries in history which partially > match what I typed. > > cd /foo > echo bar > > echo # becomes echo bar > cd #becomes cd /foo man bash man readline - history-search-forward - history-search-backward - .inputrc > > I'd also like to see proper control-left/right to hop words. I need > to do more reading to get this sort of thing working properly > everywhere. Half of the apps I use don't recognize proper key > combinations. =/ > > > As an aside, I'm still very very frustrated making the change from > 4dos to bash, and although zsh is pretty good for certain things, its > defaults are very broken from my perspective. The above is actually > possible in zsh as I understand.. but I never got around to getting it > working. > > 4dos was a dream to work with and I miss it a lot.. I'm still > contemplating wrapping it in dosemu somehow to do some basic stuff, or > otherwise attempt to bend an existing shell to my will to make it work > the way I want. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 20:23:24 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:23:24 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: References: <1115236456.24167.169.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050506190543.GB2288@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050513181827.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42850CBC.1080001@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > 999 was likely a compromise adopted when 0/00 > started being used for international/interurban automatic dialling 999 in the UK dates back to 1937; way before automatic dialling. There used to be an elaborate method of finding the 9 on a rotary dial in the dark or in smoke that all kids were drilled to do. The various reasons for choosing 999 are given here: . Stewart (who remembers mechanical Strowger exchanges, party [shared] lines and three-digit local numbers) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 20:23:41 2005 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:23:41 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 4, 2005 10:14 pm, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:23:28 -0400 > Nope - I think he's a waste of skin, actually. I just think it's a shame > that the party that talks about being the opposition to all that is > corporate etc., is paying out when it doesn't need to. 'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. if you want politicians to pay attention to issues like this, you have to get people to understand and care about it -- that way other parties will care too because the votes will be there. -- economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists. - john kenneth galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 21:23:31 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:23:31 -0400 Subject: Installfests:Cats In-Reply-To: <42850CBC.1080001-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <427BCC42.30803@rogers.com> <20050506221422.GD24185@unleashed.org> <22318ee505051221271c45d84@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512214051e28730@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f05051221422f1fec36@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131121.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050513181827.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42850CBC.1080001@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050513212331.GA27011@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 04:23:24PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Stewart > > (who remembers mechanical Strowger exchanges, party [shared] lines and > three-digit local numbers) I still have a party line (at the cottage). You can't get a new party line any more, but they can't make you change to a (much higher priced) regular line. That area switched from 3 digit numbers (you actually had to dial 5 digits but the first 2 digits were always the same for everyone in the area) about 20 years ago, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a Strowger switch until that time, too, but I don't know. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 21:43:47 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:43:47 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Here's my $.02, having just left the US: If this sort of bill gets near to passing, It is worth the money and energy to actually educate the massses. We (the geeks) in the US, all thought "that would be unconstitutional" and did very little to fight the DMCA. Guess what, the bill passed into law, and the supreme court has upheld almost every piece. So, the moral is, A, stay out of the US. B, if congress (or parliment) does not grasp the whole reality, the courts may not either. C, err, um, I'll think of something. D, ARG I hate STUPID PEOPLE RUNNING MY LIFE! E, We should really fight this sort of thing. -Joseph- On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > On May 4, 2005 10:14 pm, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:23:28 -0400 > > Nope - I think he's a waste of skin, actually. I just think it's a shame > > that the party that talks about being the opposition to all that is > > corporate etc., is paying out when it doesn't need to. > > 'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the > dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes > up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart > party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the > most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is > just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. > > if you want politicians to pay attention to issues like this, you have to get > people to understand and care about it -- that way other parties will care > too because the votes will be there. > > -- > economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists. > - john kenneth galbraith > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 22:14:25 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:14:25 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > 'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the > dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes > up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart > party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the > most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is > just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. You can get a pretty big step away from the "weird computer thing" and still find them unsympathetic. The RIAA and such are pushing for it on the basis that people are illegally copying music when they share around MP3s. There's TRUTH to that, and it's an easy point to point to. I can consider the RIAA to be scoundrels, but if I then "pirate" music, I undermine any notion of "moral high ground." There are way more people doing "pirate music" than there are on any 'high ground,' and that makes the set of DMCA opponents look unattractive. There's some difficulty in seeing a difference between: - Those "software pirates" that make copies of computer games so that they get it all for free, and - Those "free software advocates" that advocate software being available for free. Don't both favor passing around software for free? That makes them both kind of the same, right? There is some seeming similarity, which makes it tough to stand by the one that isn't blindly immoral... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 22:19:18 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 Message-ID: Hi all. VMware is running a free seminar in Toronto on June 16. Participants get a free copy of VMware 5 workstation. I'm going :) http://www.vmware.com/news/events/seminars/corporate/ Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 23:08:21 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 19:08:21 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051316084f5d5ee7@mail.gmail.com> > > I'd also like to see proper control-left/right to hop words. I need > > to do more reading to get this sort of thing working properly > > everywhere. Half of the apps I use don't recognize proper key > > combinations. =/ > > "\eOd": backward-word > "\eOc": forward-word > > Or, (depending on your terminal): > > "\e[1;5D": backward-word > "\e[1;5C": forward-word Tried both methods, but neither seemed to work - will have to play with it some more. It did however lead to finally reading this whole thread, and trying out bash 3 and bash.diff. I'd like to see another loadable sql interface - one for odbc connections. I haven't had a chance to play with Msql or Lsql yet, but I'd like to try duplicating some of my SAL work under basp. (Read as: trying to learn how to avoid relying on perl. I love perl, but bash is getting interesting. ;-) [BTW: on the Which Editor is the Best OS thread: I'd definately go with GNU NanOs ;-) ] -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 23:21:13 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 19:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051316084f5d5ee7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f05051316084f5d5ee7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, psema4 wrote: >>> I'd also like to see proper control-left/right to hop words. I need >>> to do more reading to get this sort of thing working properly >>> everywhere. Half of the apps I use don't recognize proper key >>> combinations. =/ >> >> "\eOd": backward-word >> "\eOc": forward-word >> >> Or, (depending on your terminal): >> >> "\e[1;5D": backward-word >> "\e[1;5C": forward-word > > > Tried both methods, but neither seemed to work - will have to play > with it some more. To find the key combination, press Ctrl-V and then the keystroke at the command line. Mine shows ^[Od for Ctrl-Left, which is \e0d. There may be a problem using it with vi mode; but vi mode is itself a problem. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 23:33:54 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 19:33:54 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > >>'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the >>dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes >>up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart >>party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the >>most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is >>just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. > > > You can get a pretty big step away from the "weird computer thing" and > still find them unsympathetic. > > The RIAA and such are pushing for it on the basis that people are > illegally copying music when they share around MP3s. > > There's TRUTH to that, and it's an easy point to point to. > > I can consider the RIAA to be scoundrels, but if I then "pirate" > music, I undermine any notion of "moral high ground." There are way > more people doing "pirate music" than there are on any 'high ground,' > and that makes the set of DMCA opponents look unattractive. One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're copying for your own personal use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 13 23:36:34 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 19:36:34 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <99a6c38f05051316084f5d5ee7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050513163645068847@mail.gmail.com> > > Tried both methods, but neither seemed to work - will have to play > > with it some more. > > To find the key combination, press Ctrl-V and then the keystroke at > the command line. Mine shows ^[Od for Ctrl-Left, which is \e0d. Thx! Works like a charm now. :-) (FC1 testbox: "\e[[D" for ctrl-left and "\e[[C" for ctrl-right.) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 00:37:55 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:37:55 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42853962.5080902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050513203755.5e4399c1.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:33:54 -0400 James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > > > >>'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the > >>dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes > >>up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart > >>party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the > >>most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is > >>just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. > > One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase > a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right > to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're > copying for your own personal use. Good point. And let's also not forget that in spite of all the moral hair splitting that goes on when this subject comes up, the real problem is that an industry lobby group is getting their own way in a decision that has profound consequences and *none* of our political leadership seems to be able to even address the issue, let alone discuss it meanifully. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 00:39:18 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:39:18 -0400 Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the link. I just registered to go. Do you happen to know exactly where it is or have they not said yet? Signed. Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Robert Brockway Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:19 PM To: TLUG mailing list Subject: [TLUG]: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 Hi all. VMware is running a free seminar in Toronto on June 16. Participants get a free copy of VMware 5 workstation. I'm going :) http://www.vmware.com/news/events/seminars/corporate/ Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 00:51:46 2005 From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:51:46 -0400 Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1116031906.1320.474.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 18:19 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > VMware is running a free seminar in Toronto on June 16. Brilliant! It's just down the street, and I nearly bought a copy of Workstation online this week. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 01:42:29 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 21:42:29 -0400 Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051318422621c20e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/05, Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Thanks for the link. I just registered to go. > Do you happen to know exactly where it is > or have they not said yet? Must've missed it in the rush to register. ;-) Toronto Marriott Airport 901 Dixon Road Toronto, Ontario M9W 1J5 Canada ( From: https://www.sporg.com/servlet/IndRegister?sporgEventID=24621&viewType=1 ) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 02:04:07 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:04:07 -0400 Subject: these clicking habbits... In-Reply-To: <4282C346.5070709-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> Message-ID: <42855C97.8060302@istop.com> At home (FC2), when I double click on text in terminal window or just mark in Mozilla, it goes to memory, so I can later shift-insert it anywhere. But I used FC2 at some another place, and use now at yet another place, and these comps do not let me to do the same. Is there perhaps some sort of configuarion somewhere where I can change my settings how copy & paste works? Or what is the problem? BTW, it might be related: my mouse works nice like mice at home, but on other 3 comps with the same OS it does not. It simply behaves like "click twice, but slowly, to get what you want". zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 02:29:18 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 02:29:18 +0000 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42853962.5080902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/13/05, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > > > >>'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the > >>dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes > >>up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart > >>party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the > >>most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is > >>just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. > > > > > > You can get a pretty big step away from the "weird computer thing" and > > still find them unsympathetic. > > > > The RIAA and such are pushing for it on the basis that people are > > illegally copying music when they share around MP3s. > > > > There's TRUTH to that, and it's an easy point to point to. > > > > I can consider the RIAA to be scoundrels, but if I then "pirate" > > music, I undermine any notion of "moral high ground." There are way > > more people doing "pirate music" than there are on any 'high ground,' > > and that makes the set of DMCA opponents look unattractive. > > One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase > a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right > to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're > copying for your own personal use. That is an excellent example of the LACK of "moral high ground." All that comes out of that levy is a subsidy to the Canadian equivalent to the RIAA, CPCC. It is unlikely that any but the richest artists ever see a penny of that. There's an argument that it's legal to copy in unlimited quantity for personal use; that position doesn't have any sort of universal agreement. And when Canadians make copies of music produced by people that aren't beneficiaries of that levy, the artists see no money. Perhaps legal, but hardly just. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 03:13:09 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:13:09 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050513203755.5e4399c1.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050513203755.5e4399c1.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051320134f0ff23a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/05, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:33:54 -0400 > James Knott wrote: > > > Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On 5/13/05, daniel wrote: > > > > > >>'cmon. think about the demographic here. everyone on this list knows the > > >>dangers of things like drm and the dmca, but the mentality on this list makes > > >>up no more than 2% of the voting public. the ndp is doing what any smart > > >>party would do in this position: looking for the groups that'll hand them the > > >>most votes. as far as anyone else is concerned, this whole "dmca thing" is > > >>just some weird computer thing that doesn't concern them. > > > > > One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase > > a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right > > to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're > > copying for your own personal use. > > Good point. And let's also not forget that in spite of all the moral hair splitting > that goes on when this subject comes up, the real problem is that an industry lobby > group is getting their own way in a decision that has profound consequences and *none* > of our political leadership seems to be able to even address the issue, let alone discuss > it meanifully. That's the general case (painfully obvious as it is), but there are "pockets of sentience" and some great resources available. I'm not saying to vote Green or anything - but, they've had some policy statements about this stuff for a while. At least since the election last year. Where it took a while for the Liberals and Conservatives to respond to the lobbying from Digital Copyright Canada and a neat little army of volunteers (a segment of the open source populace in Canada), the Greens already had a stance. It should be at http://lp.greenparty.ca/tiki-index.php?page=Industry+Technology+Communications+subcommittee however there server appears to be very slow at the moment. Some other resources (tonnes of information, in no particular order): The center of Open Source and Government: http://www.egovos.org/ Digital Copyright Canada: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/ GoC contracted report on floss: http://www.e-cology.ca/canfloss/ Defense R & D Canada (floss faq): http://www.cio-dpi.gc.ca/fap-paf/oss-ll/faq_e.asp The question is how to force these issues into the minds of the parties. It needs to be hammered home and there's some pretty thick skulls out there. It's all about exposure, as defined (quite relevant) in the article "Copyright law 2.0: Judges Rule" by Raymond Blijd. That article is here: http://p2pnet.net/story/4834 For me, the single biggest advantage of the GTALug Wiki is that we can provide a *persistent* view of what GTALuggers think on these issues. The mailing list is constantly flowing with new information and always fluid. If, as a community, we would like to prepare a message then a dynamic and persistant one can be had at http://tlug.ss.org/. The only way to make them listen, is to "write in BIG letters with crayon." (A lesson I learned at work - K.I.S.S) Put resources and a public statement regarding the membership's beliefs somewhere the politians can get to with the click of a mouse. The more voices, the deeper the crayon's color. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 04:11:32 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 00:11:32 -0400 Subject: [Semi-OT] Canada's Internet. 20 years old. Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051321112e07645d@mail.gmail.com> Just found this article, an interesting read. 20 years of internet in Canada. Yikes but time flies. http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/business/story.html?id=5999052a-08a7-4582-84b8-937282953e4b -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 07:37:18 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 03:37:18 -0400 Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051318422621c20e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051318422621c20e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yep, I missed it but the location begs the question : Does anyone who's going own a car? If so, would they be willing to let me beg a ride? Much appreciation from me to whomever, if so. Signed. Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of psema4 Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:42 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 On 5/13/05, Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Thanks for the link. I just registered to go. > Do you happen to know exactly where it is > or have they not said yet? Must've missed it in the rush to register. ;-) Toronto Marriott Airport 901 Dixon Road Toronto, Ontario M9W 1J5 Canada ( From: https://www.sporg.com/servlet/IndRegister?sporgEventID=24621&viewType=1 ) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 09:19:01 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:01 +0300 (IDT) Subject: apropos voip: http://www.testyourvoip.com/: opinions ? Message-ID: I just found this. It seems to allow testing voip quality (potential) without actually having voip. Either that or I misunderstood how it works. http://www.testyourvoip.com/ opinions ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 10:15:36 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 06:15:36 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Sat, 14 May 2005 02:29:18 +0000 Christopher Browne wrote: > > > > One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase > > a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right > > to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're > > copying for your own personal use. > > That is an excellent example of the LACK of "moral high ground." > > And when Canadians make copies of music produced by people that aren't > beneficiaries of that levy, the artists see no money. Perhaps legal, > but hardly just. So, you feel that because of this 'lack of justice' we should simply allow the RIAA to dictate our government policy on the issue? Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 11:59:33 2005 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 07:59:33 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: ; from cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:33:47 -0400 References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> <20050512182258.GB2288@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513110810.GC2076@localhost> Message-ID: <20050514115933.GA2012@localhost> On Fri May 13,2005 09:33:47 AM Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > You already have random access with popd: > > popd: popd [+N | -N] [-n] > Removes entries from the directory stack. With no arguments, > removes the top directory from the stack, and cd's to the new > top directory. So for random access directory changes I have to: - Always use pushd (or an alias) to change directories. - Do a dirs command to list my previous directories. - Count left or right from the dirs listing to determine the value of N that I need to use. - Enter a popd command with the N parameter to change to the desired directory. This seems pretty cumbersome. In most cases, using cd with tab completion would probably be faster. It's not like the quick "select from a pop up window involked by a single key press" method that I'm used to with the 4OS2 shell. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 14:29:35 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:29:35 -0500 Subject: VMware Seminar: June 16, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f05051318422621c20e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the heads up on this.. I've used 4.5 to happily silently destroy my data, and I'm interested in trying version 5 to do it again, but preferably under linux. =) It's too bad I'll have to take the day off for this. =/ On 5/14/05, Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Yep, I missed it but the location begs the question : > Does anyone who's going own a car? > If so, would they be willing to let me beg a ride? > Much appreciation from me to whomever, if so. > > Signed. > Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill I second this inquiry. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 15:25:19 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:25:19 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <20050514061536.452054bb.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: On 5/14/05, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Sat, 14 May 2005 02:29:18 +0000 > Christopher Browne wrote: > > > > > > > One thing you're apparently forgetting, is that every time you purchase > > > a blank CD or audio cassette, you're paying a levee for the legal right > > > to copy music. It's impossible to be a "pirate" in Canada, if you're > > > copying for your own personal use. > > > > That is an excellent example of the LACK of "moral high ground." > > > > And when Canadians make copies of music produced by people that aren't > > beneficiaries of that levy, the artists see no money. Perhaps legal, > > but hardly just. > > So, you feel that because of this 'lack of justice' we should simply allow the > RIAA to dictate our government policy on the issue? I certainly never said that, and the use of this sort of "straw man" technique of making up things you want to attribute to others is one of the sleazier debating techniques. It would be about as sleazy for me to ask when you stopped beating your wife. It seems to me that the CPCC has played THEIR hand fairly well so as to make it difficult for anyone to argue against their position without getting uncomfortably close to/associated with the "I support piracy" position. Their approach has been plenty questionable, but the whole situation is enough of a sloppy mudpit that there's a paucity of high ground available to be taken. And when you get there, you discover it sinking underneath you. :-( Of course, the federal political debate of the last couple of months is much the same, so we can hardly expect better anywhere else... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 15:38:14 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:38:14 -0500 Subject: Bash keybinding (was: Any Bash features you'd like to see?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 5/13/05, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2005, Sy wrote: > > echo # becomes echo bar > > cd #becomes cd /foo > > Put this in your .inputrc file: > > "\eOd": backward-word > "\eOc": forward-word > > Or, (depending on your terminal): > > "\e[1;5D": backward-word > "\e[1;5C": forward-word My terminal is using the \eOd format. After searching and playing about for a half an hour I was not able to find a proper keyboard map for this style, nor was I able to get up/down working for search history. I commented-out the existing up/down keybindings from /etc/inputrc without success.. up/down are still bound. After doing some translation, I'm presently left with this: "\eOa": history-search-backward ## control+up-arrow "\eOb": history-search-forward ## control+down-arrow in .inputrc, which works. In the thread, ^v was mentioned, to find various codes, which was a help. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 15:39:28 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050514115933.GA2012@localhost> References: <20050511135607.xsr6rg4iaev44ow4@webmail.almatau.com> <20050511182238.GA7583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050512122628.GG3182@localhost> <20050512182258.GB2288@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513110810.GC2076@localhost> <20050514115933.GA2012@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2005, Scott Allen wrote: > On Fri May 13,2005 09:33:47 AM Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> You already have random access with popd: >> >> popd: popd [+N | -N] [-n] >> Removes entries from the directory stack. With no arguments, >> removes the top directory from the stack, and cd's to the new >> top directory. > > So for random access directory changes I have to: > > - Always use pushd (or an alias) to change directories. A function is better. > - Do a dirs command to list my previous directories. > > - Count left or right from the dirs listing to determine the value of N that > I need to use. > > - Enter a popd command with the N parameter to change to the desired > directory. > > This seems pretty cumbersome. In most cases, using cd with tab completion > would probably be faster. It's not like the quick "select from a pop up > window involked by a single key press" method that I'm used to with the 4OS2 > shell. cd() { pushd "${@:-$HOME}"; } cdx() { popd "$@"; } _cdx() ## Tab completion function for cdx { COMPREPLY=( `dirs` ) } complete -F _cdx cdx -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 15:52:57 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:52:57 -0500 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: If someone is willing to give an executive summary of issues such as what's being discussed here.. it would be a good baby step towards better-describing and acting on them. I've created an "issues" section. Edit it to add an item, follow the added link and dump in the summary. http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Issues&action=edit As an aside, I don't really like the term "activism". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stewsinc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 16:25:12 2005 From: stewsinc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Stewart Sinclair) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:25:12 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <42862668.8040202@eol.ca> Good idea. Just out of curiosity, what term would you prefer? S. Sy wrote: > If someone is willing to give an executive summary of issues such as > what's being discussed here.. it would be a good baby step towards > better-describing and acting on them. > > I've created an "issues" section. Edit it to add an item, follow the > added link and dump in the summary. > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Issues&action=edit > > > As an aside, I don't really like the term "activism". > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 16:59:17 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:59:17 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <42797590.4020900@sympatico.ca> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050514125917.5f303d94.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Sat, 14 May 2005 11:25:19 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > > > > So, you feel that because of this 'lack of justice' we should simply allow the > > RIAA to dictate our government policy on the issue? > > I certainly never said that, and the use of this sort of "straw man" > technique of making up things you want to attribute to others is one > of the sleazier debating techniques. It would be about as sleazy for > me to ask when you stopped beating your wife. Well, thanks for dragging in and trivializing a whole other issue. Did you have a real answer? > > It seems to me that the CPCC has played THEIR hand fairly well so as > to make it difficult for anyone to argue against their position > without getting uncomfortably close to/associated with the "I support > piracy" position. > > Their approach has been plenty questionable, but the whole situation > is enough of a sloppy mudpit that there's a paucity of high ground > available to be taken. And when you get there, you discover it > sinking underneath you. :-( If you want to permit the issue to be cast in those terms, then I guess you're going to sink, which is undoubtedly the intent of the lobby groups pushing for this. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 16:53:34 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:53:34 -0500 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <42862668.8040202-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <20050504221418.4f6f0d54.rob@cheapersafer.com> <200505131623.41496.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <42853962.5080902@rogers.com> <20050514061536.452054bb.rob@cheapersafer.com> <42862668.8040202@eol.ca> Message-ID: > Sy wrote: > > I've created an "issues" section. Edit it to add an item, follow the > > added link and dump in the summary. On 5/14/05, Stewart Sinclair wrote: > Good idea. Just out of curiosity, what term would you prefer? I just use "issues".. it sounds a bit more adult and interested. Activism just sounds too tree-hugging to me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 18:26:03 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 14:26:03 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <4282C346.5070709-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> Message-ID: <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> They have the web site at http://www.datawind.ca/ for instance. The toy seems to be nice and usefull. I wonder how they produce images of web pages on the server, to send them to this wireless displayer. Its probably a patented technology but I suspect there is nothing very complex there. Or anybody knows about a similar open source solution? zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 18:47:11 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 14:47:11 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <428642BB.1090608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> > The toy seems to be nice and usefull. I wonder how they produce images > of web pages on the server, to send them to this wireless displayer. Its > probably a patented technology but I suspect there is nothing very > complex there. Or anybody knows about a similar open source solution? It's looks like data-over-cellular. They're not keeping the pages on their servers. It'd be interesting to find out what's OS is running on it though. On the open source solution side, I'm fairly certain you won't find any turnkey solutions. (I'd love to be corrected on that!) You might be able to put something together with a Sharp Zaurus and a decent data plan with your cell provider. Definately a YMMV situation. Pocket web surfer looks kinda neat, I just don't need another internet (or cell) bill. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 18:52:19 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 14:52:19 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> psema4 wrote: >>The toy seems to be nice and usefull. I wonder how they produce images >>of web pages on the server, to send them to this wireless displayer. Its >>probably a patented technology but I suspect there is nothing very >>complex there. Or anybody knows about a similar open source solution? > > > It's looks like data-over-cellular. They're not keeping the pages on > their servers. > > It'd be interesting to find out what's OS is running on it though. > > On the open source solution side, I'm fairly certain you won't find > any turnkey solutions. (I'd love to be corrected on that!) > > You might be able to put something together with a Sharp Zaurus and a > decent data plan with your cell provider. Definately a YMMV > situation. > > Pocket web surfer looks kinda neat, I just don't need another internet > (or cell) bill. > My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is expensive, around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 21:37:45 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 17:37:45 -0400 Subject: an afront to Canadians by south neighbour, google? In-Reply-To: <428648E3.8090407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42866FA9.7040005@istop.com> http://froogle.google.com/ Interesting idea. But they do not accept prizes listed in C$. They accept though EU currency. Why is Germany prefered for them? What is going on there? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 22:07:52 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 18:07:52 -0400 Subject: Canada's own DMCA In-Reply-To: <4278EDCD.7010007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4278DEA8.4030203@rogers.com> <200505041059.28194.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20050504113919.1a594170.rob@cheapersafer.com> <4278EDCD.7010007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050514150769dcb8c8@mail.gmail.com> On 5/4/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Rob Sutherland wrote: > > > There's currently an attempt to get petitions to Ottawa to > > > >protest this move. (http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition) Stats on returns: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/signatures.shtml -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 00:02:23 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:02:23 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop Message-ID: Hi all, I've been thinking about this idea of the "average user," who wants to surf the web, do light word processing, check their e-mail, and play FreeCell. So, I'm thinking that if you were to create a custom distro install for this purpose, you could boot to a friendly splash screen and auto-login as a user who can only run these programs. Also, external drives and cameras should be mounted and appear on the desktop automagically. I guess my first question is: has anyone done something like this before? Othewise: * How would you restrict which executables they could run? grsecurity? * What would be an easy way for the user to configure PPP (IMO the only thing they should have to configure)? * Any ideas as to how *you* could push out updates to this setup? * Automounting? The last time that I experimented with this there was something called "supermount" and most users agreed that it was broken. My personal opinion is that the "average user" is certainly capable of learning to effectively use the Unix CLI, let alone GNOME or KDE. However, I don't think that plunking a newbie down in front of Windows XP Home and leaving them to it is very productive, either. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 01:09:16 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:09:16 -0500 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://pclinuxos.com/ Yes, it exists.. with all the functionality you want. Office, IM, p2p is all configured out of the box by default. I could use the stock liveboot cd for most of my needs. For other functionality.. install it to a HD, add packages (via apt-get or synaptic), and then wrap it back up into a bootable and installable cd. -- I'd say that there are a number of liveboot installable distros which would do the "average user" thing quite well. Blocking a user from using their own system with security features wouldn't be well received in my opinion.. but having them log in as a regular user to do 95% of their work would go a long way in keeping a nice happy system going. On 5/14/05, Mike Newman wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been thinking about this idea of the "average user," who wants to > surf the web, do light word processing, check their e-mail, and play > FreeCell. > > So, I'm thinking that if you were to create a custom distro install > for this purpose, you could boot to a friendly splash screen and > auto-login as a user who can only run these programs. > > Also, external drives and cameras should be mounted and appear on the > desktop automagically. > > I guess my first question is: has anyone done something like this before? > Othewise: > * How would you restrict which executables they could run? grsecurity? > * What would be an easy way for the user to configure PPP (IMO the > only thing they should have to configure)? > * Any ideas as to how *you* could push out updates to this setup? > * Automounting? The last time that I experimented with this there was > something called "supermount" and most users agreed that it was > broken. > > My personal opinion is that the "average user" is certainly capable of > learning to effectively use the Unix CLI, let alone GNOME or KDE. > However, I don't think that plunking a newbie down in front of Windows > XP Home and leaving them to it is very productive, either. > -- > Get Firefox - Take back the Web > http://www.getfirefox.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 02:38:37 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:38:37 -0400 Subject: an afront to Canadians by south neighbour, google? In-Reply-To: <42866FA9.7040005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> <42866FA9.7040005@istop.com> Message-ID: <4286B62D.9020904@sympatico.ca> If you're looking for computer stuff, does the froogle thing. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 02:37:49 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:37:49 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4286B5FD.4060500@sympatico.ca> Mike Newman wrote: > > Also, external drives and cameras should be mounted and appear on the > desktop automagically. Gnome can already do this, if you have hald running. It can also optionally run programs when devices are mounted (like gphoto for cameras, whatever you use for your iPod, etc) Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 06:00:48 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 02:00:48 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/14/05, Sy wrote: > Blocking a user from using their own system with security features > wouldn't be well received in my opinion.. but having them log in as a > regular user to do 95% of their work would go a long way in keeping a > nice happy system going. Well, the target audience for this thought experiment is my girlfriend's landlady. She bought a PC a while ago and the vendor installed Windows 2000 Professional. I did my best to lock it down (gave her a regular user account, installed a virus scanner, spyware scanner, all the latest updates, etc.) All that she expects out of her computer are, as I said, word processing, web browsing, e-mail and FreeCell. Even in this secured state, it's sadly unable to deliver this functionality without my regular intervention. There's always a virus, or Word crashes, or IE won't load, or Thunderbird craps itself... etc. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 06:45:14 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 02:45:14 -0400 Subject: running Fortran code on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050513131516.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510171205.88062.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> <20050512034949.GB27332@waltdnes.org> <42833D6B.1040602@rogers.com> <20050513032615.GA29674@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f05051220392fe6a9b4@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050512211442c97c5e@mail.gmail.com> <20050513131516.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050515064514.GB23505@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 09:15:16AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 12:14:53AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > > Just in case anyone else is looking for mor info on this, IBM has a page here: > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs3.html > > > > Are there any better links that describe how to use /dev/shm? (or > > man/info pages?) > > One option is something like: > > mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /ramdrive On newer distros it should be mounted as /dev/shm. From my /etc/fstab... # glibc 2.2 and above expects tmpfs to be mounted at /dev/shm for # POSIX shared memory (shm_open, shm_unlink). # (tmpfs is a dynamically expandable/shrinkable ramdisk, and will # use almost no memory if not populated with files) # Adding the following line to /etc/fstab should take care of this: none /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0 Treat it like an ordinary directory, but don't get too large a file, or else you'll be eating into your main RAM, and start swapping out a lot of stuff... [m450][waltdnes][~]ll /dev/shm total 0 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 40 May 15 02:40 . drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 0 May 14 02:16 .. [m450][waltdnes][~]echo "Hello world" > /dev/shm/hello.txt [m450][waltdnes][~]ll /dev/shm total 4 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 60 May 15 02:41 . drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 0 May 14 02:16 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 waltdnes users 12 May 15 02:41 hello.txt [m450][waltdnes][~]cat /dev/shm/hello.txt Hello world [m450][waltdnes][~]rm /dev/shm/hello.txt rm: remove regular file `/dev/shm/hello.txt'? y [m450][waltdnes][~]ll /dev/shm total 0 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 40 May 15 02:41 . drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 0 May 14 02:16 .. [m450][waltdnes][~] -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Sat May 14 23:09:48 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:09:48 -0400 Subject: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar. Message-ID: <20050515110638.38B301BB187@outbox.allstream.net> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39191668,00.htm bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 14:05:49 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:05:49 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <428642BB.1090608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2005, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > They have the web site at > > http://www.datawind.ca/ > > for instance. > > The toy seems to be nice and usefull. I wonder how they produce images of web > pages on the server, to send them to this wireless displayer. Its probably a > patented technology but I suspect there is nothing very complex there. Or > anybody knows about a similar open source solution? I don't know how *they* do it but xvfb is how I'd do it ;-). That and some compression on the wireless transfer and it works. The reverse signalling (mouse etc) is trivial on 433MHz. The main stream may require a 2.4GHz link depending on desired speed. F.ex. 115kBauds can be sent on a 433MHz link and that would make it as fast as dialup modem. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 14:07:47 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <428648E3.8090407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a > connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is expensive, > around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. 5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per minute. How much money do you make ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wk1989-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 15:39:27 2005 From: wk1989-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jack Wang) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:39:27 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050515113927.1b58de6c.wk1989@yahoo.com> On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:02:23 -0400 Mike Newman wrote: > > Hi all, You can do that with any distro. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 15:47:38 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:47:38 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> Message-ID: <42876F1A.4070203@istop.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 May 2005, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> They have the web site at >> >> http://www.datawind.ca/ >> >> for instance. >> >> The toy seems to be nice and usefull. I wonder how they produce images >> of web pages on the server, to send them to this wireless displayer. >> Its probably a patented technology but I suspect there is nothing very >> complex there. Or anybody knows about a similar open source solution? > > > I don't know how *they* do it but xvfb is how I'd do it ;-). That and > some compression on the wireless transfer and it works. The reverse > signalling (mouse etc) is trivial on 433MHz. The main stream may require > a 2.4GHz link depending on desired speed. F.ex. 115kBauds can be sent on > a 433MHz link and that would make it as fast as dialup modem. They, it seems, do that on windows, so they have Internet Explorer compatibility. But.. wait.. your method would allow to have more that just web browser! An entire desktop would be availalble with all programs, am I right? zb. > Peter -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 16:33:53 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:33:53 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <42876F1A.4070203-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <42876F1A.4070203@istop.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2005, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > They, it seems, do that on windows, so they have Internet Explorer > compatibility. > > But.. wait.. your method would allow to have more that just web browser! An > entire desktop would be availalble with all programs, am I right? Yes. And I have some experience doing that, moving a xvfb b/w desktop to a graphics display over a serial link at 115.2 kBauds (standard serial speed). It's nothing to write home about and the resolution is really low (think trying to look at a 1x1 meter map through a postcard size hole). But it has some potential for certain applications. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 17:45:25 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 13:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2005, Mike Newman wrote: > So, I'm thinking that if you were to create a custom distro install Hi Mike. Locking down the desktop is a function of the window manager/desktop environment, not the distro. When the account is setup a bunch of rc files can be dropped in, possibly via a script on a USB device, so no need to go to the trouble of developing yet another distro. You can have locked-down users and non locked-down users using the same box as I have in one case (using Debian Woody). > for this purpose, you could boot to a friendly splash screen and > auto-login as a user who can only run these programs. Avoid auto-login. Logging in is not an arduous process. I've desmonstrated that the completely computer illiterate understand the idea immediately. Automatically logging in does not make life easier and does reduce security and functionality. Linux is multi-user after all. By forcing login as one user you prevent the others using the GUI from a seperate account (without starting multiple X servers). This reduces much of the usefulness of the design of the system (eg, protection against deletes by other users, privacy, etc). > I guess my first question is: has anyone done something like this before? As user config - sure. > Othewise: > * How would you restrict which executables they could run? grsecurity? I did it by allowing access to and thus execution only of what was in the window manager menu. This kept the menu simple which is great for people not confortable with computers. No shell was available. Other options for doing this would include good old permissions. If you use grsecurity I'd suggest doing it because you wanted the greater security it offers, not because you wanted to use RBAC to manage users. The setup will take longer. > * Any ideas as to how *you* could push out updates to this setup? Ssh into the box and pull updates? You could automate this although I don't recommend it. > My personal opinion is that the "average user" is certainly capable of > learning to effectively use the Unix CLI, let alone GNOME or KDE. I agree with this. Before GUIs became common we know that many non-technical office workers used CLIs. I've witnessed it myself many times. > However, I don't think that plunking a newbie down in front of Windows > XP Home and leaving them to it is very productive, either. Agreed. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 17:51:07 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 13:51:07 -0400 Subject: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar. In-Reply-To: <20050515110638.38B301BB187-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050515110638.38B301BB187@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051510515760c70d@mail.gmail.com> (re: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar) On 5/14/05, bob wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39191668,00.htm I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the reason. A lot of folks believe the cost benefits (of using open source in schools) is inherent; and I would be one of those. :-) If you come accross a copy of the report from the British Educational Communications and Technology Association (as referenced in the article), please post a link or mail me off-list. I'd really like to take a closer look at it. Thanks! -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 20:24:02 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 16:24:02 -0400 Subject: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar. In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051510515760c70d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050515110638.38B301BB187@outbox.allstream.net> <99a6c38f05051510515760c70d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050515202402.GF20581@sophocles> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 01:51:07PM -0400, psema4 wrote: > (re: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar) > > On 5/14/05, bob wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39191668,00.htm > > I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the reason. A lot of > folks believe the cost benefits (of using open source in schools) is > inherent; and I would be one of those. :-) > > If you come accross a copy of the report from the British Educational > Communications and Technology Association (as referenced in the > article), please post a link or mail me off-list. I'd really like to > take a closer look at it. BECTA's report: http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/publications/documents/BEC5606_Full_report18.pdf An info sheet BECTA created about the report: http://www.becta.org.uk/publications/documents/BEC5606_Information_Sheetrev.pdf Microsoft certainly weren't happy about that report: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39198432-39020330t-10000004c -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 20:24:51 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 16:24:51 -0400 Subject: apropos voip: http://www.testyourvoip.com/: opinions ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The MOS score that they are computing is a standard VOIP readiness test. See this for how your codec affects the MOS http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/788/voip/codec_complexity.html#mos See this for MOS, explained in English http://wiki.heinous.org/index.php/Linux_Caffe_IT_ideas_and_discussion The real problem with their test is that it is done over a 20 second sample. The Internet is severely random. So, what is good one day is not the next. If you get a good score, and you're phone calls are non-critical, then you might proceed to use VOIP. To do critical phone connections over IP you need to do some empirical testing over a long period of time, then look at the WORST scores (you cannot throw out the 5% outliers like you do with most statistics) and decide if you can afford to have 5% of your calls at that lowest quality. -Joseph- P.S. Does Asterisk have a way to measure link quality, and follow a secondary connection? Can you get your real time VOIP quality feedback tied into your routing protocol? On 5/14/05, Peter wrote: > > I just found this. It seems to allow testing voip quality (potential) > without actually having voip. Either that or I misunderstood how it > works. > > http://www.testyourvoip.com/ > > opinions ? > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 20:42:23 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 16:42:23 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> With the next major vote of confidence coming up this week (May 19th), I'd just like to re-iterate some information from p2pnet and Digital Copyright Canada. (If you haven't signed the petition yet and would like to, now is the time to do it. Mine will be in the mailbox tomorrow morning.) "Bending to relentless pressure from the entertainment industry, heritage minister Frulla says she wants to "amend" Canada's "antiquated" intellectual property laws through proposed new copyright legislation to be tabled **in June.**" (emphasis added) (Source: http://p2pnet.net/story/4772 "Don't Change Canada's IP Laws") "The Ministers of Heritage and Industry are currently in the process of drafting a Bill. We want to ensure that the petition has been presented before any such Bill is first read. That means that we want the petition presented as early as possible in 2005. That means gathering the signatures together now. Some are already in the hands of MPs, but don't let that stop you from sending them in - once signatures start getting presented to Parliament, there may well be an increase in interest and thus a large "Second wave" of signatures." (Source: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ "Petition for Users' Rights: When do you need the signatures?") Additional summarized information on why this is important to Canadian citizens will be available on the wiki in the next few days. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 20:55:13 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 16:55:13 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4287B731.4050702@istop.com> psema4 wrote: > (If you haven't signed the petition yet and would like to, now is the > time to do it. Mine will be in the mailbox tomorrow morning.) Is there any petition to sign? Dont use your tonge and teeths but give URL to where it could be signed. I have been organizing successfull online protests. It goes in that way: give URL. In two words. No mambo jambo. People come to web page, read the text, sign it, and push the button. Nothing else. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:00:48 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:00:48 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) In-Reply-To: <4287B731.4050702-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> <4287B731.4050702@istop.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505151400495f4b54@mail.gmail.com> > Is there any petition to sign? Dont use your tonge and teeths but give > URL to where it could be signed. > > I have been organizing successfull online protests. It goes in that way: > give URL. In two words. No mambo jambo. People come to web page, read > the text, sign it, and push the button. Nothing else. The petition can be downloaded and printed from http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ >From the section "Why not an electronic petition": "Parliament does not accept electronic petitions. While electronic petitions are far easier to sign, taking the extra time sign a paper petition that meets the requirements of parliament goes further to convincing parliament." That section also provides links to a pair of related online petitions. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:36:28 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:36:28 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0505151400495f4b54-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> <4287B731.4050702@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505151400495f4b54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4287C0DC.1030504@istop.com> > "Parliament does not accept electronic petitions. While electronic > petitions are far easier to sign, taking the extra time sign a paper > petition that meets the requirements of parliament goes further to > convincing parliament." Shouldnt we change parliament, since they do not accept online petitions? ;) zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:36:42 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:36:42 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/15/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi Mike. Locking down the desktop is a function of the window > manager/desktop environment, not the distro. > > When the account is setup a bunch of rc files can be dropped in, possibly > via a script on a USB device, so no need to go to the trouble of > developing yet another distro. You can have locked-down users and non > locked-down users using the same box as I have in one case (using Debian > Woody). Well I wasn't really thinking of developing a new distro (I wish I had that much time on my hands!) I meant an installation of an existing distro - simply phrased badly. :) As for auto-login: I agree that it's not exactly difficult to log in, but most people I know will just create one account with no password and share it with everyone in the household. Worse yet is that the account invariably has administrator privileges Frankly the best solution is for people to recognize that computers are serious machines and that some degree of education is necessary to use them responsibly. However, some people simply refuse to get informed while insisting on having access to the services that a modern personal computer provides. Well thanks for your advice everyone! -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:49:43 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2005, Mike Newman wrote: > As for auto-login: I agree that it's not exactly difficult to log in, > but most people I know will just create one account with no password > and share it with everyone in the household. Worse yet is that the > account invariably has administrator privileges IMHO we as knowledgeable users/professionals have a responsibility to discourage bad habits such as this. Afterall they don't know any better, but we do. We should try to prevent them from being drawn into a situation which allows them to shoot themselves in the foot rather than encouraging them to go down that road. People accept that they can drive a car better if they learn good technique. The same is true of computers of course and the sooner non-technical users realise this the less pain they will experience when using computers (and to be honest many non-techs do understand this). > Frankly the best solution is for people to recognize that computers > are serious machines and that some degree of education is necessary to > use them responsibly. However, some people simply refuse to get > informed while insisting on having access to the services that a > modern personal computer provides. Fair enough. If you explain to users why they should login, and use 1 account per user and not use root access except when necessary then you have done the right thing. If they go ahead and follow the wrong path anyway it is up to them. What I object to is for techs who know better to setup a system the wrong way in the first place (eg, providing auto-login on the belief users want this). Ultimately the owners/administrators of a machine do have the right to ignore any advice provided and have their machines setup however they wish. Professionally, if someone continues to insist on doing something the wrong way I will issue my objections in writing. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:51:45 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 00:51:45 +0300 (IDT) Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > As for auto-login: I agree that it's not exactly difficult to log in, > but most people I know will just create one account with no password > and share it with everyone in the household. Worse yet is that the > account invariably has administrator privileges What most people don't realise is the fact that there can be only ONE auto login account per machine. That could be implemented as 'kiosk mode' or something similar with reasonable timeouts and auto-logouts etc. It is not so hard using existing code and scripts. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 21:52:08 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:52:08 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) In-Reply-To: <4287C0DC.1030504-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> <4287B731.4050702@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505151400495f4b54@mail.gmail.com> <4287C0DC.1030504@istop.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051514524acdf772@mail.gmail.com> On 5/15/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > "Parliament does not accept electronic petitions. While electronic > > petitions are far easier to sign, taking the extra time sign a paper > > petition that meets the requirements of parliament goes further to > > convincing parliament." > > Shouldnt we change parliament, since they do not accept online petitions? ;) Not necessarily. I would rather see all of the parties get familiar with these issues, rather than just the folks currently in power. If we're going to change parliament, we should change it not because people don't want to spend 5 minutes of their time, a few cents on ink, paper, envelope and stamp; Rather we should change it because they pay far more attention to industry funded lobbies than to it's own citizens. (who voted them in to begin with.) Btw, Richard Stallman is presenting in Calgary this week (May 18th) on Software Patents. Indications are that he may also be speaking on this petition as well. More info: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/view/844 -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 22:17:53 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 18:17:53 -0400 Subject: The Clocks ticking... (Was: Canada's own DMCA) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051514524acdf772-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0505151342f8f4407@mail.gmail.com> <4287B731.4050702@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505151400495f4b54@mail.gmail.com> <4287C0DC.1030504@istop.com> <99a6c38f05051514524acdf772@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505151517793b8b20@mail.gmail.com> > If we're going to change parliament, we should change it not because > people don't want to spend 5 minutes of their time, a few cents on > ink, paper, envelope and stamp; Rather we should change it because > they pay far more attention to industry funded lobbies than to it's > own citizens. (who voted them in to begin with.) Actually, I'd like to clarify that a little: In some senses, parliament doesn't have much in the way of choice between listening to industry lobbies and Canadian citizens since, unfortunately, a lot of citizens *do not bother* to get involved. The only way for parliament to get changed-up, is for Canadians to spend some effort - first in research, then in action. As a web developer, I am all for ease-of-use. The problem with online petitions is that they are a quick-click and forget. For serious matters such as these copyright reforms, ease-of-use does not even begin to compare with the value of research and effort. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 22:30:14 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 18:30:14 -0400 Subject: 8139too giving only 10Mbps Message-ID: <200505151830.14437.marc@lijour.net> Hi still fighting with my small network... I have a line which does not configure properly. The 2 machines are linked directly by a cross-over cable. See below for the stats: ---------------------- | Machine 1 | ---------------------- Here I have a RealTek based card (8139too) visibly able to do 100Mbps: # ethtool eth2 Settings for eth2: Supported ports: [ TP MII ] Supported link modes: 10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full Supports auto-negotiation: Yes Advertised link modes: 10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes Speed: 10Mb/s Duplex: Half Port: MII PHYAD: 32 Transceiver: internal Auto-negotiation: on Supports Wake-on: d Wake-on: d Current message level: 0x00000007 (7) Link detected: yes ---------------------- | Machine 2 | ---------------------- Here I have the on-board eth card, the mobo is the K7S5A. The board doc says it is a SiS735 chip which runs the lan ( http://www.ecsusa.com/products/k7s5a_v3.html ). However my Mandrake detects a sis900 10/100 capable. But my ethtool does not give any info. But the logs shows that the card picks up 100Mbps anyway. The connection is limited at 10Mbps by machine 1 without machine 2 knowing? Any help appreciated. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun May 15 22:39:32 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 18:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 8139too giving only 10Mbps In-Reply-To: <200505151830.14437.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200505151830.14437.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2005, Marc Lijour wrote: > | Machine 1 | > Supported link modes: 10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full > 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full > Speed: 10Mb/s > Duplex: Half > | Machine 2 | > However my Mandrake detects a sis900 10/100 capable... > But the logs shows that the card picks up 100Mbps anyway. > The connection is limited at 10Mbps by machine 1 without machine 2 knowing? No. 10Mbps and 100Mbps use completely different signaling methods; if packets are getting through at all, the two interfaces *are* in agreement on which one to use. Any apparent disagreement is an error in reporting. If they can't talk to each other at all, *that* might be some sort of 10/100 disagreement. (There is much to be said for interfaces which have a visible 10/100 indicator LED...!) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 00:38:20 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 20:38:20 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050512151846.GE23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> <20050512151846.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/12/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well this looks promising: > http://www.ralinktech.com/supp-1.htm > > Their driver is entirely source code (no .o files or other crap that I > can see). > > Anyone know what cards use the rt2400 (802.11b) and rt2500 (802.11g) > chipsets? The ASUS WL-130G is an example of such a card; it uses the RT2500 chipset. You can pick it up for around $30.00 at Tiger Direct (Woodbine & Hwy 7). Problem is, I've never gotten either the GPL driver, nor the older non-GPL one to work successfully natively under Linux. The driver compiles just fine, but upon load, the kernel crashes. I fought with it for about a week before I gave up. Now it sits on the shelf waiting for some more time for me to give it another go. I did manage to get it to work under "ndiswrapper" using the included Windows drivers, and it worked great for awhile, but I really needed to get it working natively. > Nice to see someone releasing a wireless driver as GPL from the > manufacturer (which they appear to have done as of driver version > 1.4.4.0). True enough. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 02:56:55 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 22:56:55 -0400 Subject: I'm sure the Canadian situation is similar. In-Reply-To: <20050515202402.GF20581@sophocles> References: <20050515110638.38B301BB187@outbox.allstream.net> <99a6c38f05051510515760c70d@mail.gmail.com> <20050515202402.GF20581@sophocles> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051519566f47919d@mail.gmail.com> (Apologies in advance; I've been sporting a wicked headache all day.) > Microsoft certainly weren't happy about that report: The fact that Mr. Uden (Microsoft's education relations manager according to the Zdnet article) would first say that "We spend more time looking at better learning for kids" and then turn around and say that 3 of the primary schools were supported by a secondary school resulting in the findings of the report being distorted - I find that just a little disgusting. Schools have to rely on Microsoft (and/or it's "partners") for support? Schools should not help one another? That's just absurd. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 05:01:27 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 01:01:27 -0400 Subject: booting a floppy image from a hard driver Message-ID: I have a computer with no cd drive and no floppy and no pxe enabled NIC. I have a set of boot floppy images that I'd like to be able to copy onto my hard drive and have as boot options. I've been trying to use the extlinux boot loader (one of the syslinux derivitives), with no luck. Have any of you used syslinux for this? How about lilo or grub, how do you point to a floppy .img file and boot it? Thanks, -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 05:10:58 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 01:10:58 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> I apologize for the haste of this message, I may be too late already, however over the last few hours some dialog has started over the possibility of recording this weeks presentation by Richard Stallman in Calgary. Unfortunately, voice recording is all that is within CUUG's means - they are funding the entire event and have been unable to find a volunteer with the appropriate equipment for a video recording. I would like to put a call out to help support CUUG and further Mr. Stallman's message on the dangers of software patents. While certainly not rich, I'll start a donation pot with a few hundred dollars if there's even a hope. I see tremendous value in a (Made in Canada!) video on this topic. In particular, I would like to make it available to MP's and to the parties. The political landscape is in turmoil and the media is (naturally) all over it. If you're looking for a way to make a difference in Canadian politics, give the politicians something that's easy to digest. A Stallman video might be just what the doctor ordered. There is *very little* time left - the event is this Wednesday. If anyone is willing to contribute funds for a video recording of this event, please email me *asap* so that I can get an estimate of what resources are available and to co-ordinate with CUUG if there is enough. Please distribute quickly - the larger the audience of this message, the better the odds to acquire the resources in time (may be less than 24 hours). It is my sincerest hope that a few others will come forward in what time remains... Thanks, - Scott. -- (From the Calgary Unix Users Group site at http://www.cuug.ab.ca/) The Danger of Software Patents Richard Stallman from the Free Software Foundation and of the GNU Project, author of the GPL, the man who made GNU/Linux possible, will be giving a talk in Calgary. Richard Stallman will explain how software patents obstruct software development. Software patents are patents that cover software ideas. They restrict the development of software, so that every design decision brings a risk of getting sued. Patents in other fields restrict factories, but software patents restrict every computer user. Economic research shows that they even retard progress. Seating is limited - please make sure you register. There will be a draw for a door prize from the registration list. As a matter of principle, Richard Stallman refuses to lecture where there is a compulsory attendance fee. CUUG is paying the full costs of sponsoring this event (flights, equipment rental, etc.), estimated at $2000 to $3000. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 05:11:15 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 01:11:15 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050513201953.GA3468-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 04:19:53PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 03:39:14PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > Unless I totally missed reading on this functionality.. I'd like to > > be able to type a partial command which exists in my history, and then > > press up/down to cycle through the entries in history which partially > > match what I typed. > > > > cd /foo > > echo bar > > > > echo # becomes echo bar > > cd #becomes cd /foo > > man bash > man readline > - history-search-forward > - history-search-backward > - .inputrc For searching through the history, above should be enough, eg. C-p: history-search-backward C-n: history-search-forward which can be bound to some other keys of your choice. For searching through previously visited directories, it's more complicated. You can easily build up a large list. So, you need - some random access into "partial match", or - moving sequentially for few last directories that you can actually remember. The key insight is "Programmable Completion" (man bash). To make long story short, put this in ~/.profile. _cd () { local cur=${COMP_WORDS[$COMP_CWORD]} COMPREPLY=( $(compgen -W "`dirs`" -- $cur) ) } cd () { pushd "${1:-$HOME}" ; } alias b='pushd' # swap current and previous alias p='popd' # pop the current, and go back to previous complete -o dirnames -F _cd cd complete -d popd pushd 1. - 'cd' will push the new directory onto stack, - 'p' will pop and move to previous directory. - 'b' will toggle between current and previous, ie. swap the 2 items on the stack. 2. When you press , eg. cd /usr it will try to complete on '/usr' from 'dirs' output. If no completion is possible, then only the directories will be listed. Main problem is that if your 'dirs' has /usr/local/src/bash ~ then typing cd / will return cd /usr/local/src/bash This is okey if you wanted to go to '/usr/local/src/bash', but not if you wanted some other directory under '/', like '/var/log'. For the latter case, you have to type more chars, eg. cd /v -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alain-Cli3VEtMc4ustjuMBgEEQA at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 03:03:00 2005 From: alain-Cli3VEtMc4ustjuMBgEEQA at public.gmane.org (alain maisonneuve) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:03:00 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry Message-ID: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. Now what support is there for this device under Linux. This model connect and recharges using the USB cable so communication should easy. I would like to integrate it with my Evolution Mail etc. any thoughts would be great. cheers, Alain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 11:52:30 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 07:52:30 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200505160752.30923.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 15, 2005 11:03 pm, alain maisonneuve wrote: > I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. > > Now what support is there for this device under Linux. > > This model connect and recharges using the USB cable so communication > should easy. > > I would like to integrate it with my Evolution Mail etc. > > any thoughts would be great. > > cheers, > Alain > I researched this when I went looking for my new phone. I was interested in the level of compatibility with Linux that these units offered. The resounding answer I found was "zero" So I bought a Treo 600. Palm based. Everything works. Everything syncs, Treo --> Kontact --> Groupware. Backups work. I hope you find information that I did not, for your sake. The blackberry units are nice. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 12:35:42 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:35:42 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050516051115.GA19305-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 04:19:53PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 03:39:14PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > > Unless I totally missed reading on this functionality.. I'd like to > > > be able to type a partial command which exists in my history, and then > > > press up/down to cycle through the entries in history which partially > > > match what I typed. > The key insight is "Programmable Completion" (man bash). To make long > story short, put this in ~/.profile. Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about. I remember touching briefly on this sort of thing when I was playing with zsh some time ago. I'm actually still contemplating making a wrapper between the shell and myself using ruby so that I can keep the more familiar 4dos-style functionality, and do wacky things which I'm not yet aware is possible in something like bash. This would force me to learn a new skill (ruby) and work towards something that I've always wanted in Linux (4dos). well.. it's a pipe dream.. for now I'll fiddle with my bash setup some more. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 13:24:56 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:24:56 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On 5/15/05, alain maisonneuve wrote: > I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. > > Now what support is there for this device under Linux. > > This model connect and recharges using the USB cable so communication > should easy. > > I would like to integrate it with my Evolution Mail etc. > > any thoughts would be great. I think you best option is the Blackberry Webclient. It provides the ability to get email onto the Blackberry from a variety of email systems ( imap, pop, etc... ). The webclient downloads emails to the Blackberry server and pushes them to the device over the wireless link. You should probably get the unlimited data service with a Blackberry anyways... I haven't used it in awhile but I believe there is also a contact manager and CSV import capability. I'm not aware of any way to sync directly between the Blackberry and Linux. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 12:26:09 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:26:09 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42889161.8030009@sympatico.ca> psema4 wrote: > > The political landscape is in turmoil and the media is (naturally) all > over it. If you're looking for a way to make a difference in Canadian > politics, give the politicians something that's easy to digest. A > Stallman video might be just what the doctor ordered. Uh, dude, Stallman's got a great face for radio (and, as my train buddy slightly uncharitably put it, "a great voice for books"). Probably best to keep it audio only. If you want to do a video, point a camera at Cory next time he's in town. He's a better poster-boy for the movement. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 14:10:57 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:10:57 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <42889161.8030009-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> <42889161.8030009@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:26:09 -0400 "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > psema4 wrote: > > > > The political landscape is in turmoil and the media is (naturally) all > > over it. If you're looking for a way to make a difference in Canadian > > politics, give the politicians something that's easy to digest. A > > Stallman video might be just what the doctor ordered. > > Uh, dude, Stallman's got a great face for radio (and, as my train buddy > slightly uncharitably put it, "a great voice for books"). Probably best > to keep it audio only. > > If you want to do a video, point a camera at Cory next time he's in > town. He's a better poster-boy for the movement. Yeah, he'd be good. Hmmm...to bad we couldn't organize an Open Source vs Free Software wrestling match between Stallman and Raymond, that'd bring 'em in :-) Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 15:27:01 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> <42889161.8030009@sympatico.ca> <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051608272a15db2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/16/05, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:26:09 -0400 > "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > > > psema4 wrote: > > > > > > The political landscape is in turmoil and the media is (naturally) all > > > over it. If you're looking for a way to make a difference in Canadian > > > politics, give the politicians something that's easy to digest. A > > > Stallman video might be just what the doctor ordered. > > > > Uh, dude, Stallman's got a great face for radio (and, as my train buddy > > slightly uncharitably put it, "a great voice for books"). Probably best > > to keep it audio only. More or less, the same thing came up on the DCC list shortly after posting - I would expect more political types to take the time to watch a video than listen to an audio recording. (And to reiterate another point from that discussion - I'm not suggesting the avoidance of an audio distribution. It's as easy to one as the other, if you do the video first.) > > If you want to do a video, point a camera at Cory next time he's in > > town. He's a better poster-boy for the movement. > > Yeah, he'd be good. Hmmm...to bad we couldn't organize an Open Source vs > Free Software wrestling match between Stallman and Raymond, that'd bring > 'em in :-) That would be awesome. lol. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:44:14 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:44:14 -0700 Subject: Wiki has officially moved Message-ID: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. Leah -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:47:55 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:47:55 -0700 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: <20050516164413.GB26621-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050516 09:44]: > The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your > bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. Oh, I suppose telling you where might be a good idea... http://gtalug.org should do it. Leah -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:48:12 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:12 -0400 Subject: [d@DCC] Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <1116259854.6295.66.camel-EXNex1ka7hWqEiA08h3RFF6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> <1116259854.6295.66.camel@ws50.darkcore.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050516094875ef05f3@mail.gmail.com> On 5/16/05, John Lange wrote: > I'd be very interested in seeing this event recorded and would even be > willing to put some money towards it. > > My question is, why do you need several hundred dollars? One day's > rental of even the most expensive consumer video equipment can't be more > than $40-$100 ? I have not received estimated cost as yet - this has been a very last minute push. The last word I've received from CUUG on the matter was that it was very expensive and out of reach for them. My assumption is that the costs would also cover a professional videographer. A rough estimate of support pledged by concerned individuals and businesses is on the order of $500-750 (some offers have been variable depending on need) which, in my opinion, is absolutely fantastic for last 12 hours. If there is someone at CUUG who can operate rental equipment at a reduced cost, then I believe any excess donation dollars should go to help them offset the cost of sponsoring the event. As soon as I have more information, I'll make it available. Once again - thanks to all who've come forward with support for this. A friend once asked me a question about tackling enormous issues. How does one eat an elephant? One bite at a time. In this case, I think some serious progress has been towards getting Mr. Stallmans words to the people who need them the most. - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:57:41 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:57:41 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051608272a15db2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> <42889161.8030009@sympatico.ca> <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob@cheapersafer.com> <99a6c38f05051608272a15db2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050516125741.542c1f0c.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400 psema4 wrote: > On 5/16/05, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:26:09 -0400 > > "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > > > > > psema4 wrote: > > > > > > > > The political landscape is in turmoil and the media is (naturally) all > > > > over it. If you're looking for a way to make a difference in Canadian > > > > politics, give the politicians something that's easy to digest. A > > > > Stallman video might be just what the doctor ordered. > > > > > > Uh, dude, Stallman's got a great face for radio (and, as my train buddy > > > slightly uncharitably put it, "a great voice for books"). Probably best > > > to keep it audio only. > > More or less, the same thing came up on the DCC list shortly after > posting - I would expect more political types to take the time to > watch a video than listen to an audio recording. No reason you couldn't have more than RMS in a video, anyway. Maybe some Canadian OS types would contribute an interview? > > > > If you want to do a video, point a camera at Cory next time he's in > > > town. He's a better poster-boy for the movement. Like Cory Doctorow, for example :-) > > > > Yeah, he'd be good. Hmmm...to bad we couldn't organize an Open Source vs > > Free Software wrestling match between Stallman and Raymond, that'd bring > > 'em in :-) > > That would be awesome. lol. $5.00 on RMS :-) Ok, I blogged up an article and submitted it to Newsvac http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/05/16/1559220.shtml So that should get a wide distribution. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:50:56 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:50:56 -0400 Subject: booting a floppy image from a hard driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050516165056.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 01:01:27AM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I have a computer with no cd drive and no floppy and no pxe enabled NIC. > > I have a set of boot floppy images that I'd like to be able to copy > onto my hard drive and have as boot options. > > I've been trying to use the extlinux boot loader (one of the syslinux > derivitives), with no luck. > > Have any of you used syslinux for this? > How about lilo or grub, how do you point to a floppy .img file and boot it? Use 'memdisk' from the syslinux package. It lets you load a floppy image into ram and use it like a real floppy. Of course if you need more than one floppy worth to do everything, you can't do that. Would it not be simpler to just temporarily put in a cdrom drive and then do the install or put in a floppy drive? WHy make life harder than it has to be? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 16:55:25 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:55:25 -0400 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: <20050516164755.GD26621-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050516 09:44]: > > The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your > > bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. > > Oh, I suppose telling you where might be a good idea... > http://gtalug.org should do it. Yay! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 17:16:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:16:27 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 11:03:00PM -0400, alain maisonneuve wrote: > I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. > > Now what support is there for this device under Linux. > > This model connect and recharges using the USB cable so communication > should easy. > > I would like to integrate it with my Evolution Mail etc. > > any thoughts would be great. At least in the past when I last looked at it, RIM was very much Windows + Exchange only. They didn't care one bit about supporting anything else. I have no idea if any of the SDK stuff would help that but then again I don't have a device to play with so I didn't look into it further than that. Very neat device, if the restrictions on using the provider and/or your companies exchange server is acceptable. If not, it's probably the wrong device for you, at least for now. Maybe when MS starts doing smart phone/email thingies RIM will start looking for other potential places to find customers. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 17:20:31 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:20:31 -0400 Subject: Please distribute (quickly): Made in Canada Stallman video? In-Reply-To: <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f05051522102368d25e@mail.gmail.com> <42889161.8030009@sympatico.ca> <20050516101057.587ea2fe.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, Rob Sutherland wrote: > Yeah, he'd be good. Hmmm...to bad we couldn't organize an Open Source vs > Free Software wrestling match between Stallman and Raymond, that'd bring > 'em in :-) The "troika" of RMS, ESR, and Linus Torvalds no longer meet together because they have fairly much "agreed to disagree." They have substantially different positions on things, and there is nothing new that is particularly interesting to debate about this. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 17:30:23 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2005, Sy wrote: > On 5/16/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050516 09:44]: > > > The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your > > > bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. > > > > Oh, I suppose telling you where might be a good idea... > > http://gtalug.org should do it. > > Yay! Except that I'm getting host unreachable: 12 64.230.229.10 (64.230.229.10) 35.409 ms 35.191 ms 35.106 ms 13 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 36.837 ms 35.511 ms 36.146 ms 14 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 3034.636 ms !H 3030.613 ms !H 3001.618 ms !H Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 17:42:13 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:42:13 -0400 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051610423e3077bc@mail.gmail.com> > Except that I'm getting host unreachable: > > 12 64.230.229.10 (64.230.229.10) 35.409 ms 35.191 ms 35.106 ms > 13 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 36.837 ms 35.511 ms 36.146 ms > 14 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 3034.636 ms !H 3030.613 ms !H > 3001.618 ms !H Hrmm. No problems here (before or after) :S -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 17:42:17 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:42:17 -0700 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> Robert Brockway (rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org) [050516 10:30]: > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Sy wrote: > > > On 5/16/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > > Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050516 09:44]: > > > > The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your > > > > bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. > > > > > > Oh, I suppose telling you where might be a good idea... > > > http://gtalug.org should do it. > > > > Yay! > > Except that I'm getting host unreachable: > > 12 64.230.229.10 (64.230.229.10) 35.409 ms 35.191 ms 35.106 ms > 13 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 36.837 ms 35.511 ms 36.146 ms > 14 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 3034.636 ms !H 3030.613 ms !H > 3001.618 ms !H Sorry, I accidentally kicked the cable. Should be working now. -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 18:21:28 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:21:28 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2005, Sy wrote: >> The key insight is "Programmable Completion" (man bash). To make long >> story short, put this in ~/.profile. > > > Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about. I remember touching > briefly on this sort of thing when I was playing with zsh some time > ago. > > I'm actually still contemplating making a wrapper between the shell > and myself using ruby so that I can keep the more familiar 4dos-style > functionality, and do wacky things which I'm not yet aware is possible > in something like bash. > > This would force me to learn a new skill (ruby) and work towards > something that I've always wanted in Linux (4dos). > > well.. it's a pipe dream.. for now I'll fiddle with my bash setup some more. =) also maybe read the bash manual, about the bind command. Most instructive. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 19:40:50 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:40:50 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050516171627.GT23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> My Dad bought a Blackberry a while back -- amazingly, without any support from me. First I heard of it was when he showed it to me. Then he asked, "can we get this to sync with my Mac?" Trouble, trouble, trouble. RIM has never heard of Linux, nor the Macintosh. So fsck 'em. My Dad ultimately exchanged his BB for a Treo 600. Now THAT is a sweet piece of hardware. Honestly, in capability it's way better than a BB. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/16/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 11:03:00PM -0400, alain maisonneuve wrote: > > I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. > > > > Now what support is there for this device under Linux. > > > > This model connect and recharges using the USB cable so communication > > should easy. > > > > I would like to integrate it with my Evolution Mail etc. > > > > any thoughts would be great. > > At least in the past when I last looked at it, RIM was very much Windows > + Exchange only. They didn't care one bit about supporting anything > else. I have no idea if any of the SDK stuff would help that but then > again I don't have a device to play with so I didn't look into it > further than that. > > Very neat device, if the restrictions on using the provider and/or your > companies exchange server is acceptable. If not, it's probably the > wrong device for you, at least for now. Maybe when MS starts doing > smart phone/email thingies RIM will start looking for other potential > places to find customers. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 19:55:14 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:55:14 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:40:50PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: >My Dad bought a Blackberry a while back -- amazingly, without any >support from me. First I heard of it was when he showed it to me. Then >he asked, "can we get this to sync with my Mac?" > >Trouble, trouble, trouble. RIM has never heard of Linux, nor the >Macintosh. So fsck 'em. My Dad ultimately exchanged his BB for a Treo >600. Now THAT is a sweet piece of hardware. Honestly, in capability >it's way better than a BB. The only complaint I've heard about the Treo is that they don't seem to have Bluetooth. I was on the sideline of an ultimate game yesterday, and several people were exchanging numbers, and lamenting that they had to type in the Treo-holder's number by hand. We've come a long way since the big grey brick cellphones. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 19:25:00 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:25:00 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050516195514.GA5560-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200505161525.00110.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 16, 2005 03:55 pm, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:40:50PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > >My Dad bought a Blackberry a while back -- amazingly, without any > >support from me. First I heard of it was when he showed it to me. Then > >he asked, "can we get this to sync with my Mac?" > > > >Trouble, trouble, trouble. RIM has never heard of Linux, nor the > >Macintosh. So fsck 'em. My Dad ultimately exchanged his BB for a Treo > >600. Now THAT is a sweet piece of hardware. Honestly, in capability > >it's way better than a BB. > > The only complaint I've heard about the Treo is that they don't seem to > have Bluetooth. I was on the sideline of an ultimate game yesterday, > and several people were exchanging numbers, and lamenting that they had > to type in the Treo-holder's number by hand. We've come a long way > since the big grey brick cellphones. The treo 650 now has bluetooth. http://www.palmone.com/us/products/smartphones/treo650/ -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 20:59:43 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:59:43 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1116277183.19223.9.camel@holden.weait.net> On Sun, 2005-05-15 at 23:03, alain maisonneuve wrote: > I recently purchased a RIM Blackberry 7250. What a great little toy. > > Now what support is there for this device under Linux. Other posters tell us that there is no support for Blackberry under Linux. I asked around, off-list and got this reply: > There is a program called Cassis that does do a backup/restore (with a > very strong disclaimer.) > > Cassis is a perl program that use the POE module (program operating > environment.) It is not compatible with the current releases of POE so > I > have been busy porting it to work in a new version. Cassis only > supports > connecting to the blackberry via a serial port which leaves the newer > ones out in the cold. I suspect that this is a minor programming > change > though. > > The code now compiles cleanly and runs but I have yet to physically > connect a blackberry to the computer. I have been working on this at > home on my notebook which doesn't have a serial port. My blackberry > uses > a serial port for synchronization. > > If you find an avid Perl programmer point him my way. I would be glad > to > have some help on this and share my revisions. So if you are strong in perl and want to collaborate on this, email me off-list and I'll put you in touch with the quoted author above. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 21:40:49 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050516195514.GA5560-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:55:14PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > The only complaint I've heard about the Treo is that they don't seem to > have Bluetooth. I was on the sideline of an ultimate game yesterday, > and several people were exchanging numbers, and lamenting that they had > to type in the Treo-holder's number by hand. We've come a long way > since the big grey brick cellphones. Whatever happend to IR? Doesn't that work anymore? I have exchanged numbers with nokia cell phones that friends have from my Palm Tungsten E. Who needs bluetooth. We have enough crap in the 2.4ghz band as it is. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 21:45:51 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: <20050516174217.GH26621-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2005, Leah Cunningham wrote: > Robert Brockway (rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org) [050516 10:30]: > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Sy wrote: > > > > > On 5/16/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > > > Leah Cunningham (leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org) [050516 09:44]: > > > > > The gtalug wiki / site has officially moved. Please adjust your > > > > > bookmarks and I apologize if this has caused any problems. > > > > > > > > Oh, I suppose telling you where might be a good idea... > > > > http://gtalug.org should do it. > > > > > > Yay! > > > > Except that I'm getting host unreachable: > > > > 12 64.230.229.10 (64.230.229.10) 35.409 ms 35.191 ms 35.106 ms > > 13 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 36.837 ms 35.511 ms 36.146 ms > > 14 64.230.230.162 (64.230.230.162) 3034.636 ms !H 3030.613 ms !H > > 3001.618 ms !H > > Sorry, I accidentally kicked the cable. Should be working now. Thanks Leah. Do you want me to a monitor the site/box through our Monitoring system? I won't put it under "High Availability" since I get woken up if they go down but monitoring of gtalug.org will alert us to problems. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 22:24:54 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OpenSourceCanada.com Message-ID: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> I don't knowif it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. There have been some interesting discussions/links here about FOSS in schools for example that could be added. Feel free to add whatever you want (that intersects "FOSS" and "Canada") thanks, Fernando ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 23:12:26 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:12:26 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050516214049.GU23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 17:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:55:14PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > We have enough crap in the 2.4ghz band as it is. > > Lennart Sorensen It's only going to get worse! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 16 23:28:20 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:28:20 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050516232820.GA5835@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 09:21:28PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Sy wrote: > > >>The key insight is "Programmable Completion" (man bash). To make > >>long story short, put this in ~/.profile. > > > > > >Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about. I remember touching > >briefly on this sort of thing when I was playing with zsh some time > >ago. > > > >I'm actually still contemplating making a wrapper between the shell > >and myself using ruby so that I can keep the more familiar 4dos-style > >functionality, and do wacky things which I'm not yet aware is > >possible in something like bash. > > > >This would force me to learn a new skill (ruby) and work towards > >something that I've always wanted in Linux (4dos). > > > >well.. it's a pipe dream.. for now I'll fiddle with my bash setup > >some more. =) > > also maybe read the bash manual, about the bind command. Most > instructive. Ah, sharp eye! I now have things the way I had it before, but in more portable manner... alias b='cd ~-' _cd () { local cur=${COMP_WORDS[$COMP_CWORD]} COMPREPLY=( $(compgen -W "`dirs`" -- $cur) ) } cd () { pushd "${1:-$HOME}" ; } bind -m vi-insert -x '"\C-t": popd' # , just like Vi tags complete -o dirnames -F _cd cd complete -d popd pushd # list only the directories. is bound to 'popd', so you can go back to previous directories, much like when you work with tags in Vi. Thanks. 'bind -x ...' was the key. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 04:53:04 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:53:04 -0400 Subject: Pending Mr. Stallmans approval... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505162153526f88fc@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, It is with mixed feelings that I'm sending this message. I am both excited at the results of this drive, and frustrated at an inherent ability I have to act before thinking. I've made a couple poor choices in my approach on this matter - ones that I do not intend to repeat. However... On to the good stuff. :-) Pending Mr. Stallman's approval on the presence of cameras, CUUG will be booking for a professional audio - and video - recording of the event. I hope to have directions on how and where to send donations to CUUG soon. Once I do, I'll be contacting those who've offered financial support over the next day or so. If there's anyone else out there that would like to help, please let me know. Thanks again to everyone - for their input, generosity, and time. - Scott. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 06:02:39 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:02:39 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116285146.3377.0.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2005, Steve wrote: > On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 17:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:55:14PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >> We have enough crap in the 2.4ghz band as it is. >> >> Lennart Sorensen > > It's only going to get worse! :-) Eventually you will be able to warm your coffee by holding the cup out of a window for 2 minutes. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 11:42:13 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:42:13 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4289D895.1020108@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Steve wrote: > >> On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 17:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:55:14PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >>> We have enough crap in the 2.4ghz band as it is. >>> >>> Lennart Sorensen >> >> >> It's only going to get worse! :-) > > > Eventually you will be able to warm your coffee by holding the cup out > of a window for 2 minutes. Several years ago, my work frequently took me to the microwave level of the CN Tower. I'd tease the guys working up there, that they always had a hot lunch. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 11:55:22 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:55:22 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT Penguin Screen Wallpaper Message-ID: <00e201c55ad7$4e4c0300$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> There is a Ryan Bliss who does a very nice website "Digital Blasphemy" which is loaded with computer generated screen wallpaper. Now, on the site there is a free area with about 25 images (the images are changed from time to time, so if you see something in the free area that appeals to you grab it as it may be gone in the not too distant future), and there is a pay "members" area (more images, higher resolution images, etc...). Any event one of the new images in the free area is this image of icebergs and iceflows, some with penguins on them... http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/dbgallery/1/arctica1152.shtml The above image is in 1152x864 with links to other lower resolution images available on that page (higher resolution versions of this image are available for $$). Now I recommend the "Digital Blasphemy" wallpaper for any computer screen wallpaper, and the above image is particularly neat for almost any Linux box... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 13:04:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:04:40 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <4289D895.1020108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4289D895.1020108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050517130440.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 07:42:13AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Several years ago, my work frequently took me to the microwave level of > the CN Tower. I'd tease the guys working up there, that they always had > a hot lunch. ;-) It's a good thing it has to be a specific frequency of microwave to work well for heating water molecules. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 13:05:00 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 9:05:00 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT Penguin Screen Wallpaper Message-ID: <20050517130330.0AAD32C3D4@gprs.fido.ca> "Colin McGregor" wrote: __________ >There is a Ryan Bliss who does a very nice website "Digital Blasphemy" which >is loaded with computer generated screen wallpaper. Now, on the site there >is a free area with about 25 images (the images are changed from time to >time, so if you see something in the free area that appeals to you grab it >as it may be gone in the not too distant future), and there is a pay >"members" area (more images, higher resolution images, etc...). Any event >one of the new images in the free area is this image of icebergs and >iceflows, some with penguins on them... > >http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/dbgallery/1/arctica1152.shtml > >The above image is in 1152x864 with links to other lower resolution images >available on that page (higher resolution versions of this image are >available for $$). > >Now I recommend the "Digital Blasphemy" wallpaper for any computer screen >wallpaper, and the above image is particularly neat for almost any Linux >box... > >Colin McGregor > Thanks for the tip. I have many of his pictures on my computer & even was a paid member years ago. Highly recommended art! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 13:05:51 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:05:51 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050517130551.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:02:39AM +0300, Peter wrote: > Eventually you will be able to warm your coffee by holding the cup out > of a window for 2 minutes. And just how much power would people have to be broadcasting at (assuming it was the right frequency microwaves) for that to work? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 13:06:52 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:06:52 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <1116285146.3377.0.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050517130652.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 07:12:26PM -0400, Steve wrote: > It's only going to get worse! :-) I made sure to get a 5.6GHz cordless phone system for the house since the old 2.4ghz that died was really nasty on the wireless network. :) Now I just have to never want 802.11a or other system using 5.6GHz. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 14:33:46 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:33:46 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050517130551.GW23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050517130551.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:02:39AM +0300, Peter wrote: >> Eventually you will be able to warm your coffee by holding the cup out >> of a window for 2 minutes. > > And just how much power would people have to be broadcasting at > (assuming it was the right frequency microwaves) for that to work? Roughly 700W/dm^2. there should be several times that amount in the near field of a transmitter (esp. TV UHF transmitter or near the main beam of a broadband dish). Why ? ;-) Calculation is: 1J = 1W*s = 0.23cal, 1cal = 1K/cm^3 delta-t H2O at a certain temperature 1 cup = 250ml = 250cc => 250*4.18 ~= 1000 Joules per degree of heating. We need about 60 degrees (from 4 deg C to 64 deg C) so 60,000 Joules. The cup cross section is about 10x10cm^2. A 700W/dm^2 beam delivers about 84,000 Joules in 2 minutes. Which is about right imho (there is some mismatch, reflexion etc). You only have such conditions inside a beam or a waveguide. 700W/dm^2 is 70kW/m^2, about 40 times the power of the sun at noon. A normal microwave oven also uses about 700W and it heats a cup in about that amount of time. It was meant as a joke. Normal exposure to mw is much lower. Something that rises your skin temperature by 1 degree in 1 second is easily noticeable by anyone and that occurs at much lower power levels. Afaik that level is around 5W/dm^2 or so (500W/m^2, about the power of a 1-element electric space heater at 1 meter). Touching the antenna of a 5W HF transmitter should have a similar effect (it does). Broadcast transmitters must use large amounts of power to give good coverage. E.g. FM radio will run 50kW or more to cover an area of about 60km^2 with marginal quality around the edges (60km^2 is a circular area with about 20km radius). TV needs even more power for the same area. Put 10 mixed FM and TV transmitters like that on a radio tower, and you can probably heat your cup by sticking it out of the window when close enough. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 14:35:26 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:35:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050517130652.GX23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050517130652.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 07:12:26PM -0400, Steve wrote: >> It's only going to get worse! :-) > > I made sure to get a 5.6GHz cordless phone system for the house since > the old 2.4ghz that died was really nasty on the wireless network. :) > > Now I just have to never want 802.11a or other system using 5.6GHz. I think that the insulation gets better as you go up in frequency. The natural insulation offered by walls, trees, and distance increases with higher RF frequency and you need to worry less about your neighbor's cctv and router. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 14:45:31 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:45:31 -0400 Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: References: <1116212580.8074.21.camel@localhost> <20050516171627.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050516124030df6af1@mail.gmail.com> <20050516195514.GA5560@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050516214049.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1116285146.3377.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050517130551.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/17/05, Peter wrote: > Broadcast transmitters must use large amounts of power to give good > coverage. E.g. FM radio will run 50kW or more to cover an area of about > 60km^2 with marginal quality around the edges (60km^2 is a circular area > with about 20km radius). TV needs even more power for the same area. Put > 10 mixed FM and TV transmitters like that on a radio tower, and you can > probably heat your cup by sticking it out of the window when close > enough. I had a friend who worked for a TV station as a broadcast technician. The standing plan was to see about roasting a turkey by putting it up near the tower. They never got around to it, probably in part because it's got to be incredibly awkward to take a 10kg turkey and stick it onto a suitable sort of post that can then be shoved 50 feet in the air. If it's "hot" enough to cook things, it's plenty hot enough to cook the technician... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 16:35:05 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35:05 -0400 Subject: OpenSourceCanada.com In-Reply-To: <20050516222454.78120.qmail-0nAJQWU4XIGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, F. Duran wrote: > I don't knowif it will be any useful, but I had > nothing better to do this weekend and I launched > OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, the GTALUG looks > great!) So yes, another empty web. > > There have been some interesting discussions/links > here about FOSS in schools for example that could be > added. Feel free to add whatever you want (that > intersects "FOSS" and "Canada") We don't have a resource page for open source stuff in general yet, but for now you're linked on http://gtalug.org/index.php/F/LOSS -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 16:52:00 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 12:52:00 -0400 Subject: OpenSourceCanada.com In-Reply-To: References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050517125200.43060af5.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35:05 -0400 Sy wrote: > On 5/16/05, F. Duran wrote: > > I don't knowif it will be any useful, but I had > > nothing better to do this weekend and I launched > > OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, the GTALUG looks > > great!) So yes, another empty web. > > > > There have been some interesting discussions/links > > here about FOSS in schools for example that could be > > added. Feel free to add whatever you want (that > > intersects "FOSS" and "Canada") > > We don't have a resource page for open source stuff in general yet, > but for now you're linked on http://gtalug.org/index.php/F/LOSS I collected number of & resources on FOSS in Government and on E-Democracy a while ago and stuck them in my twiki. Some of them might be dated, but for what it's worth, check http://www.memeshadow.net/twiki/bin/view/Cheapersafer/WebHome http://www.memeshadow.net/twiki/bin/view/EDemocracy/WebHome for anything you can use. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 17:56:21 2005 From: dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org (David Kreuter) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 13:56:21 -0400 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design Message-ID: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> Hi: Is it accurate to say that the linux TCP/IP stack code in the kernel is a strict adherent to the OSA 7 layer model? Or a hybrid of the TCPIP 4 layer and OSI 7 layer model? Thanks, David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:12:17 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:12:17 -0400 Subject: Installfest status In-Reply-To: <971907254-1116288840-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-11508-@engine05>; from denisgmiller-+D8dom/p7m7rxkFu3R+SStHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:13:57AM +0000 References: <971907254-1116288840-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-11508-@engine05> Message-ID: <20050517141217.E18797@diamond.ss.org> A couple of lcd would be great. Bill On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:13:57AM +0000, denis wrote: > I can bring a couplle lcd or one. crt > Depends on what you need and how much I can carry > Denis > Ps typing on a blackberry sucks! > -----Original Message----- > From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:06:45 > To:Leah Cunningham > Cc:james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org, pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org, denis.miller-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org, jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org, josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org, rwh-VL1tVIhH15PQjUSlxSEPGw at public.gmane.org, seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: Installfest status > > > Is there a few monitors available? > > if not shall we cozy up to Colin about borrowing a few? > > Bill > > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 12:44:52PM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > We are nearly full for volunteers, I believe. We do not have that > > many RSVPed imstallers yet, but I believe people will turn up > > without RSVPimg, to some degree. Things you can help with now: > > > > Advertise to potential attendees (be sure they know to RSVP) > > Contribute to planning page: > > http://gtalug.org/index.php/InstallFests:2005-06_Planning > > > > -- > > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Sent via BlackBerry on the Bell Mobility network -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:10:56 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:10:56 -0400 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design In-Reply-To: <428A3045.3040506-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org>; from dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 17, 2005 at 01:56:21PM -0400 References: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <20050517141056.D18797@diamond.ss.org> The last time I looked at it (2001) it was better described as a pure TCPIP 4 layer model. To be honest though the data structure (sbuf) is sufficiently general purpose to be used in non-tcpip situations (which it is used). the actual layer model though is a more tcpip4, with the hardware layer split between top half and bottom half handlers. Bill On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 01:56:21PM -0400, David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: Is it accurate to say that the linux TCP/IP stack code in the kernel > is a strict adherent to the OSA 7 layer model? Or a hybrid of the TCPIP > 4 layer and OSI 7 layer model? > Thanks, David > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:19:35 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:19:35 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring Message-ID: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Hello, I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in a normal DVD player. Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be used on linux to do DVD authoring. Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be helpful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:38:42 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Installfest status In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050517183842.22628.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While my office can PROBABLY (almost certainly) help with CRT monitors (15" and 17" maybe larger), there is NO WAY we could help with LCD screens. Unfortunate truth is that in the last 2.5 years I could count the number of LCD screens donated to G.T.C.C. on the fingers of one hand ... and have fingers left over. In other words, I would be happy to see what my office can do to help with CRTs, mice, keyboards, etc.. But don't ask me about LCDs, as I there is NO WAY I help you there, sorry... --- billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > A couple of lcd would be great. > > Bill > > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:13:57AM +0000, denis > wrote: > > I can bring a couplle lcd or one. crt > > Depends on what you need and how much I can carry > > Denis > > Ps typing on a blackberry sucks! > > -----Original Message----- > > From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:06:45 > > To:Leah Cunningham > > Cc:james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org, pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org, > denis.miller-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org, jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org, > josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, > anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org, right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org, > rwh-VL1tVIhH15PQjUSlxSEPGw at public.gmane.org, > seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: Installfest status > > > > > > Is there a few monitors available? > > > > if not shall we cozy up to Colin about borrowing a > few? > > > > Bill > > > > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 12:44:52PM -0700, Leah > Cunningham wrote: > > > We are nearly full for volunteers, I believe. > We do not have that > > > many RSVPed imstallers yet, but I believe people > will turn up > > > without RSVPimg, to some degree. Things you can > help with now: > > > > > > Advertise to potential attendees (be sure they > know to RSVP) > > > Contribute to planning page: > > > > http://gtalug.org/index.php/InstallFests:2005-06_Planning > > > > > > -- > > > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode > #suse > > > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > Sent via BlackBerry on the Bell Mobility network > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:47:18 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:47:18 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: Make a backup image of a DVD. dvdbackup -M -i/dev/dvd -o/scratch/ Burn it with growisofs growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video scratch/TITLE Note the -dvd-video option. Read the man pages. These are part of the dvdbackup and dvd+rw-tools software packages. Franco -- On 5/17/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in a normal DVD player. > > Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be used on linux to do DVD authoring. > > Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be helpful. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:49:56 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:49:56 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050517184956.GA10606@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 02:19:35PM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in a normal DVD player. > >Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be used on linux to do DVD authoring. > >Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be helpful. I don't know if the advice given in the following article is still valid, but at least it is a starting point: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6953 Good luck, and if you find any methods that are easy/effective/straightforward/horrid, please let the list know. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 18:59:36 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:59:36 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517184956.GA10606-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050517184956.GA10606@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 5/17/05, William O'Higgins wrote: > Good luck, and if you find any methods that are > easy/effective/straightforward/horrid, please let the list know. I think my method is easy/effective/straightforward. And it worked once. (I only tried it once. On a questionable DVD burner.) Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:17:07 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:17:07 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: ; from saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 17, 2005 at 02:47:18PM -0400 References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050517151707.G18797@diamond.ss.org> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 02:47:18PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > Make a backup image of a DVD. Since I'm not actually copying a DVD I'm not sure what to make of this. > dvdbackup -M -i/dev/dvd -o/scratch/ If I were to create the files required in scratch by hand or through an application how would I do that? Think the following: I have just converted 30year old home movies from videotape to mpgs, now I want to create a DVD to allow me to a) select a specific movie, b) watch it on my TV. > > Burn it with growisofs > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video scratch/TITLE > I'm assuming this is the method used to burn the DVDs. I use the utility when I'm creating DVD backups of datafiles. > Note the -dvd-video option. Read the man pages. > > These are part of the dvdbackup and dvd+rw-tools software packages. > > Franco > > -- > > On 5/17/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in a normal DVD player. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be used on linux to do DVD authoring. > > > > Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be helpful. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:10:27 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:10:27 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050517184956.GA10606@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050517191027.GA10718@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 02:59:36PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: >On 5/17/05, William O'Higgins wrote: > >> Good luck, and if you find any methods that are >> easy/effective/straightforward/horrid, please let the list know. > >I think my method is easy/effective/straightforward. > >And it worked once. (I only tried it once. On a questionable DVD burner.) I've used your method too - but you have to be aware that some DVDs are larger than your medium - unless you're spending $6.50 on dual layer discs. I wasn't sure if Bill wanted to create his own, which is why I provided the link that I did. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:19:25 2005 From: andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:19:25 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517151707.G18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050517151707.G18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050517191925.GB10077@seahorse.localdomain> http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/doc/index.html Not very fleshed out. http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/doc/dvdauthor.html A bit more descriptive. The key thing is the XML (XML-ish really) file that describes the dvd structure, e.g: --- --- Then you run "dvdauthor -x dvd.xml" and you get a DVD/ directory with VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS and all that properly done. It is this directory that you burn. Obviously this very simple example will have the single video "t.mpg" on the disc. For things like menus and subtitles you'll have to make your own graphics and such... it might just be easier to make video 1 = chapter 1 and so on and skip thru them with the ffwd button. HTH, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:25:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:25:06 -0400 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design In-Reply-To: <428A3045.3040506-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <20050517192506.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 01:56:21PM -0400, David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: Is it accurate to say that the linux TCP/IP stack code in the kernel > is a strict adherent to the OSA 7 layer model? Or a hybrid of the TCPIP > 4 layer and OSI 7 layer model? Does the kernel have anything to do with things past layer 3 or 4 (depending on the application)? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:27:52 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:27:52 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050517192752.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 02:19:35PM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in a normal DVD player. > > Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be used on linux to do DVD authoring. > > Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be helpful. dvdauthor + growisofs (with -dvd-compat and -dvd-video options as far as I recall) dvdauthor helps to setup the right VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS dirs and make ifo index files for each mpeg2 file in there (it has add commands to add another video file into the dir with the right name). growisofs with the dvd-compat flag (to force finalizing the disc) and the -dvd-video option (to the mkisofs options at the end of growisofs) should do the job. Try it on a dvd-rw/dvd+rw first and see if mplayer and such recognize it as a dvd before wasting real media. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:30:05 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:30:05 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517151707.G18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050517151707.G18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050517193005.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 03:17:07PM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > If I were to create the files required in scratch by hand or through an application how would I do that? That is what dvdauthor is for. > Think the following: I have just converted 30year old home movies from videotape to mpgs, now I want to create a DVD to allow me to a) select a specific movie, b) watch it on my TV. Hopefully they are mpeg2 of the right resolution for DVD. > > Burn it with growisofs > > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video scratch/TITLE > > > I'm assuming this is the method used to burn the DVDs. I use the utility when I'm creating DVD backups of datafiles. Same tool. -dvd-video tells mkisofs to order things specifically as dvd wants it and I believe adds udf structures to the media too. adding -dvd-compat before -Z is also a good idea to make sure the burn is over 1GB and finalized. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:32:41 2005 From: andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:32:41 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517192752.GZ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050517192752.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050517193241.GD10077@seahorse.localdomain> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 03:27:52PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > growisofs with the dvd-compat flag (to force finalizing the disc) and > the -dvd-video option (to the mkisofs options at the end of growisofs) > should do the job. Try it on a dvd-rw/dvd+rw first and see if mplayer > and such recognize it as a dvd before wasting real media. mplayer dvd://1 -dvd-device /path/to/dvd/dir also works without having to burn the disc at all. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:40:38 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 12:40:38 -0700 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design In-Reply-To: <20050517192506.GY23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> <20050517192506.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Sometimes: nfs boot, I would argue, is a kernel talking at the application layer. Can someone confirm this? -Joseph- On 5/17/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 01:56:21PM -0400, David Kreuter wrote: > > Hi: Is it accurate to say that the linux TCP/IP stack code in the kernel > > is a strict adherent to the OSA 7 layer model? Or a hybrid of the TCPIP > > 4 layer and OSI 7 layer model? > > Does the kernel have anything to do with things past layer 3 or 4 > (depending on the application)? > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:43:33 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:43:33 -0400 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design In-Reply-To: References: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> <20050517192506.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050517194333.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:40:38PM -0700, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Sometimes: > nfs boot, I would argue, is a kernel talking at the application layer. > Can someone confirm this? True, but NFS only uses tcp/udp packets, I don't think it really abstracts out any of the top 3 layers. Almost nothing does. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From troworld-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 19:56:28 2005 From: troworld-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dmitri Vassilenko) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:56:28 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200505171556.28885.troworld@rogers.com> On Tuesday May 17 2005 14:19, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in > a normal DVD player. I haven't tried this myself, but here's something I dug up from my bookmarks: http://mightylegends.zapto.org/dvd/dvdauthor_howto.php HTH, Dmitri -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 21:16:11 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:16:11 -0400 Subject: linux TCPIP stack design In-Reply-To: <20050517194333.GB23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <428A3045.3040506@vm-resources.com> <20050517192506.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050517194333.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428A5F1B.2080606@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 12:40:38PM -0700, Joseph Kubik wrote: > >>Sometimes: >>nfs boot, I would argue, is a kernel talking at the application layer. >>Can someone confirm this? > > True, but NFS only uses tcp/udp packets, I don't think it really > abstracts out any of the top 3 layers. Almost nothing does. The Linux kernel handles OSI layer 3 (network) through OSI layer 6 (presentation). Layer 1 is the actual copper/fiber/rf/pigeon. Layer 2 (data link) is mostly handled in hardware ASICs these days, although configured by the kernel. In terms of the old model, that's layers 2 and 3 (network and transport). As to which model the kernel "adheres" to, I don't really understand the question. If you're trying to get an idea of how the kernel's networking works, there's a summary of the design the Linux netfilter stuff over here. Old, but pretty readable. http://www.gnumonks.org/ftp/pub/doc/packet-journey-2.4.html If you're looking for wierdo edge cases where the kernel operates in "application" layer, then the integrated web accelerator back in 2.4 was pretty "application". I'm sure there are plenty more. Some of the load balancing stuff feels kind of application like too. Flipping things around, http://www.doxpara.com/paketto has a linkcat application, which allows direct read/write at L2. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCil8Zgfzn5SevSpoRAi4EAJ4wjFDU0FHLMivF/VLosnzcG+XVsQCgjDyR RlkzO8LirV47nfYf1+4b0Yw= =lkmP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 23:38:28 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:38:28 -0400 Subject: Potential Short-term contract - Administration/Development Support Message-ID: <99a6c38f050517163845faba02@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've been speaking with my employer on getting some additional support for linux administration and perl development. We've been having some difficulty locating the required skills inhouse. As a result, he's agreed to speak with one or two of the folks at GTALUG - with a possible a short-term contract in mind if there's a good connection. A short backgrounder: We are a member company of the worlds largest logistics provider (Exel Logistics), and provide logistics services to Walmart (our sole customer) in a couple of countries. Although we work in a mixed nextwork environment, over the last few years, we've been finding that Linux and Open Source solutions are an a extremely valuable source of software, information, and support. (In a nutshell, the more we implement, the more our internal customer's want. :-) If you're interested: Please email me a short note saying that you're interested, and a quick bullet list of technical skills. We're not looking for resumes at this point - as mentioned above, there is no gaurantee of employment, but the possibility for a short term (~ 3 month) contract does exist. Thanks, - Scott -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 00:37:33 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux and RIM Blackberry In-Reply-To: <20050517130440.GV23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517130440.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Several years ago, my work frequently took me to the microwave level of > > the CN Tower. I'd tease the guys working up there, that they always had > > a hot lunch. ;-) > > It's a good thing it has to be a specific frequency of microwave to work > well for heating water molecules. :) Alas, not so: most any microwave frequency will heat well enough to cause trouble. (2.4GHz, in particular, isn't resonant with water in any useful way -- it was just a convenient frequency.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 00:48:51 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:48:51 -0400 Subject: Typing accented characters Message-ID: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I recently switched my system to Unicode, and in general I'm pretty pleased with the results - I can see accents in my terminal, which makes me happy. The downside is that right now I'm using us_intl as my keyboard map, which means I can type accented characters, but I have dead keys which need escaping (I know of the caret, backtick, single and double quotes so far, but there are probably others I haven't discovered yet). I'm wondering, is there a way I can use a meta-key to trigger these dead keys selectively, or some other means that doesn't require restarting the X server? I'm using OpenBox as my window manager, if that makes a difference. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 01:36:18 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:36:18 -0400 Subject: Typing accented characters In-Reply-To: <20050518004851.GA12657-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <428A9C12.1000700@sympatico.ca> William O'Higgins wrote: > > is there a way I can use a meta-key to trigger these dead > keys selectively Right-alt works for me; I think it might be a Gnome thing, though. I certainly didn't have to do any configuration. F'rinstance: Right Alt + ' + e => ? Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 02:30:42 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:30:42 -0400 Subject: Typing accented characters In-Reply-To: <428A9C12.1000700-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428A9C12.1000700@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050518023042.GA13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:36:18PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> >> is there a way I can use a meta-key to trigger these dead >> keys selectively > >Right-alt works for me; I think it might be a Gnome thing, though. I >certainly didn't have to do any configuration. F'rinstance: >Right Alt + ' + e => ? Seems Gnome-ish. It certainly doesn't work for me, but thanks for the suggestion. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 02:39:12 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:39:12 -0400 Subject: MySQL and/or PostgreSQL databases for new users? Message-ID: <20050518023912.GB13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I administer a RHES machine, and as such I have the responsibility for adding new users and setting them up with the various things they'll need, like ~/public_html folders with the right permissions and databases to play with. I figure there is a way to write a script so that this basic stuff gets triggered when I adduser, but I don't know what that would be. There are two questions: 1. What do I have to do to get a script to automatically do basic housekeeping when I add a user? 2. How do I create a database and a user for each new user on the system, preferably in both MySQL and PostgreSQL? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 02:51:37 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:51:37 -0400 Subject: Typing accented characters In-Reply-To: <20050518023042.GA13047-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428A9C12.1000700@sympatico.ca> <20050518023042.GA13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <428AADB9.6060207@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:36:18PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > >>>is there a way I can use a meta-key to trigger these dead >>>keys selectively >> >>Right-alt works for me; I think it might be a Gnome thing, though. I >>certainly didn't have to do any configuration. F'rinstance: >>Right Alt + ' + e => ? > > > Seems Gnome-ish. It certainly doesn't work for me, but thanks for the > suggestion. When in Gnome, do as the Gnomans... ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 17 23:01:59 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:01:59 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4@mail.look.ca> What do you think ? Is this as wonderful as the article says ? Is Microsoft as wonderful as the article says ? http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/TechNews/TechAtHome/2005/04/25/1012536-ap.html Tech @ Home April 25, 2005 Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows By ELIZABETH GILLESPIE SEATTLE (AP) - Microsoft Corp.'s ambitious plan to keep data safe on PCs will make a scaled-down debut in the next release of Windows, though the operating system's most anticipated improvements in graphics appear to mirror what's now available from rival Apple Computer Inc. The long-delayed Windows upgrade, code-named Longhorn and now expected in December 2006, has been touted as the most significant update to the ubiquitous operating since Windows 95 launched in 1995. In a speech Monday, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates showed off several features. Gates demonstrated Longhorn's new graphics, which include better ways to visualize data, including seeing through windows that are stacked atop each other, more natural file organization and faster searching. He also promised better performance and reliability. And though he spent only a few minutes on security in his speech, Gates said it was the most important improvement and had received the most attention by developers. "If you had to take one area where we put the most investment in, the security area would be the head of that list by a significant amount," he told the audience at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference. Longhorn is the first release of Windows to implement Microsoft's vision of boosting security by placing cryptographic keys in special silicon chips that would be built into PCs. Currently, such encryption locks are stored as data on a hard drive. It is, however, much more difficult to crack a chip. The security chip in computers running Longhorn would thus render sensitive files inaccessible if someone tried to boot the machine from a portable hard drive or floppy disk. The security initiative - once code-named Palladium but later christened the Next Generation Secure Computing Base, or NGSCB - was announced in 2002 and was quickly attacked by privacy advocates, Microsoft critics and others as a mechanism by which commercial interests might wrest control of PCs from their owners. Some claimed it would enable strict copyright protection schemes for music, movies and software. It also could restrict the tinkering that has driven computer industry innovation over the years, they said. But secure startup isn't expected to be as controversial as chip-based rights management. Microsoft has not said, however, how else Longhorn might interact with the chip, though security features are expected that would make it more difficult for online criminals to break into PCs. Neil Charney, director of product management in Microsoft's Windows group, said the secure startup feature is most likely to be used by business computers, especially in laptops that store sensitive data that could come back to haunt companies after a theft. A number of companies, including Microsoft, are working together to beef up security using a combination of hardware and software. NGSCB is just one approach, though it's likely to have the most impact given Microsoft's dominance. Some PC vendors, including IBM Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co., have been offering PCs with security chips for years. On Monday, HP announced it will support Longhorn's implementation on some of its business computers and workstations. Gates also briefly discussed other security enhancements in Longhorn, including user accounts for shared machines that don't always have the highest privileges but are flexible enough to allow software installation. The bulk of Gates' speech covered Longhorn's flashier visual and organizational features - which Apple CEO Steve Jobs described last week as "shamelessly" copying his company's Mac OS X operating system. "They can't even copy fast," Jobs said at his company's shareholder meeting. Indeed, many of the features that Gates demonstrated Monday - including shadowed, translucent windows as well as fancy, stutter-free animations - have been a part of the Mac OS since it was released in March 2001. Microsoft shares closed at $24.99 US, up a penny, in Monday trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market. The stock has traded in a 52-week range of $23.82 to $30.20. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 01:50:45 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:50:45 -0400 Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050517215045.13ceae4b.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:02:23 -0400 Mike Newman wrote: > * Automounting? The last time that I experimented with this there was > something called "supermount" and most users agreed that it was > broken. Mike, Automount is only important if the user has more than one computer. Beginners usually do not. I would not worry about it much. A non-computer friend of mine has bought a computer and asked me about running Linux. I recommended the Red Hat Linux Bible with the latest available Fedora distribution. The primary advantage of this is the 1000 page manual that comes with the software. A lot of ignorance can be managed if you can RTFM. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 01:40:25 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:40:25 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) Peter wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > > > My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a > > connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is expensive, > > around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. > > 5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per > minute. How much money do you make ? More importantly, how many websites are surfable by a cellphone. I can surf the web with my Telus cellphone, but most commercial websites are unreadable by devices with small text displays. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 04:34:59 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 00:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play > in a normal DVD player. > Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can > be used on linux to do DVD authoring. > Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be > helpful. I've tried this exactly once, using data from a digital camcorder: Software: ffmpeg, with dv support (compile with libdv) mpeg2enc, mp2enc, mplex from mjpegtools dvdauthor mkisofs growisofs from dvd+rw-tools 1. Convert digital video data to an mpeg2 video file: ffmpeg -i test.dv -f yuv4mpegpipe pipe: \ | mpeg2enc -f 8 -a 2 -F 4 -I 1 -o test.mpv (where test.dv is the file containing captured data from the camcorder) 2. Convert the audio in the digital video data to mp2 audio: ffmpeg -i test.dv -f wav pipe: | mp2enc -r 48000 -o test.mpa 3. Multiplex the video and audio to an mpeg system file: mplex -f 9 -o test.mpg test.mpv test.mpa 4. Create a file called "test.xml": 5. Create the dvd layout: dvdauthor -o dvd -x pond.xml 6. Create the dvd iso image: mkisofs -dvd-video -o test-dvd.iso dvd 7. Burn the iso image: growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=test-dvd.iso Decoding the digital video (ffmpeg in step 1) seemed to introduce some weird color distortion. Also, my dvd player seemed to have trouble playing the disc, I don't know if this is because of the authoring method or because it was a crappy disc. Hope that helps, have fun, and if you can improve on this method, please share your info :) JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 07:34:42 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:34:42 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, James McIntosh wrote: > What do you think ? > > Is this as wonderful as the article says ? > > Is Microsoft as wonderful as the article says ? Once a supermarket brand repackager, forever a supermarket brand repackager. There is exactly one aspect of that firm I would never want to criticise: their revenue model. A model that their users cannot share ;-) My hottest wish was that they come up with a hardware lock system to stomp out piracy. It could be cheaper than printing strange holographic labels and much more effective. Hey, m$, why don't you enforce antipiracy for the user desktop level ? You are missing at least 1 billion dollars per year net income. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 07:37:04 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:37:04 +0300 (IDT) Subject: The locked-down desktop In-Reply-To: <20050517215045.13ceae4b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517215045.13ceae4b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:02:23 -0400 > Mike Newman wrote: > >> * Automounting? The last time that I experimented with this there was >> something called "supermount" and most users agreed that it was >> broken. > > Automount is only important if the user has more than one computer. > Beginners usually do not. I would not worry about it much. Automount is THE device that allows anyone to use *nix without mount/umount hassles. It is very easy to set up and it works well. It allows removable media to be used without mount/umount hassle. Including floppies, cdroms, dvd-rom and usb disk-on-key. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 07:41:52 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 03:41:52 -0400 Subject: MySQL and/or PostgreSQL databases for new users? In-Reply-To: <20050518023912.GB13047-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518023912.GB13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051800415a4de856@mail.gmail.com> On 5/17/05, William O'Higgins wrote: > 1. What do I have to do to get a script to automatically do basic > housekeeping when I add a user? Set up a basic public_html structure under /etc/skel and see below. > 2. How do I create a database and a user for each new user on the > system, preferably in both MySQL and PostgreSQL? I've been meaning to write a wrapper for the longest time - you finally gave me an excuse to do it. :-) You can find an example wrapper using perl here: http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Psema4Topic_General_Programming Take care, - Scott. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 11:57:59 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 07:57:59 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <428B2DC7.7080309@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) > Peter wrote: > > >> >>On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: >> >> >>>My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a >>>connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is expensive, >>>around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. >> >>5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per >>minute. How much money do you make ? > > > More importantly, how many websites are surfable by a cellphone. I can surf the web with my Telus cellphone, but most commercial websites are unreadable by devices with small text displays. > I was hoping to connect my notebook computer, to my cell phone, for wireless access, but at the rates Rogers charges, it's far too expensive. As for the browser, many sites are charged on a per use basis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 11:58:57 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 07:58:57 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <428B2E01.2050007@rogers.com> James McIntosh wrote: > What do you think ? > > Is this as wonderful as the article says ? > > Is Microsoft as wonderful as the article says ? > > > http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/TechNews/TechAtHome/2005/04/25/1012536-ap.html It can be useful, provided the specs are published. If it's an MS only thing, then no way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 11:55:51 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 07:55:51 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050517141935.F18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200505180755.51939.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 17, 2005 02:19 pm, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in > a normal DVD player. > > Does anyone have any suggestion for programs or applications that can be > used on linux to do DVD authoring. > > Also since I'm a complete newbie at this anyone with advise would be > helpful. -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Take a look at dvdstyler as well. http://dvdstyler.sourceforge.net/features.html -snip- The main DVDStyler features are: * you can drag and drop MPEG files directly * you can import image file for background * you can create NTSC/PAL menus * you can place text and images anywhere on the menu screen * you can change font/color * you can put basic text buttons, change font/color and background color * you can copy and paste any menu object * you can set chapters for each movie * you can change post command for each movie -snip -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 12:49:02 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:49:02 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050518124902.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 12:34:59AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote: > Decoding the digital video (ffmpeg in step 1) seemed to introduce some > weird color distortion. Also, my dvd player seemed to have trouble > playing the disc, I don't know if this is because of the authoring method > or because it was a crappy disc. What type of media? Remember some dvd players prefer DVD-R, some prefer DVD+R and some like nothing but stamped DVDs. Many players don't like any +RW/-RW media. I tried making a video DVD+RW and it didn't play well at all (rather confused really) a DVD player that was a few years old, while a brand new $60 dvd player played it just fine. Using a DVD-R it worked perfectly on both. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 12:53:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:53:07 -0400 Subject: Typing accented characters In-Reply-To: <20050518004851.GA12657-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050518125307.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 08:48:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I recently switched my system to Unicode, and in general I'm pretty > pleased with the results - I can see accents in my terminal, which makes > me happy. > > The downside is that right now I'm using us_intl as my keyboard map, > which means I can type accented characters, but I have dead keys which > need escaping (I know of the caret, backtick, single and double quotes so > far, but there are probably others I haven't discovered yet). I'm > wondering, is there a way I can use a meta-key to trigger these dead > keys selectively, or some other means that doesn't require restarting > the X server? What do you mean by dead keys? Does your keyboard actually have the labels on it for us_intl? Most non-plain-us keyboards use the right alt key to access additional characters on many keys. Personally I have prefered in the past to leave the keyboard as plain us since that's what it has on the keytops, and define the useless windows menu key (next to right control) as compose. Then I can use compose to conbine characters into the character I want. xmodmap should be able to define the key as compose for you. There are lots of places with information on using compose in X as well. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 13:04:30 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:04:30 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <200505180755.51939.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <200505180755.51939.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050518090430.3051c24a.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:55:51 -0400 Jason Shein wrote: > On May 17, 2005 02:19 pm, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to create DVDs. The kind that you can play in > > a normal DVD player. K3B http://www.k3b.org/ has an option to create a video DVD project - I haven't tried it - anyone had any experience? I was thinking of burning some of the stuff at archive.org Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 12:32:31 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:32:31 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes Message-ID: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> I seem to remember someone on the list having mini-ITX experience? Does the EPIA 800 have enough processing power to play DVDs smoothly under Linux? I've managed to acquire a mini-ITX box that was retired from a satellite comms system, with the ultimate aim of building a silent, low-power media box. Current spec: c3 800, Trident Cyberblade i1 integrated graphics, 640MB PC133 RAM, 60GB 5400rpm Toshiba notebook drive, Gentoo 2005.0. It looks like support for the Cyberblade is extremely weak under Linux (it's the usual 'proprietary drivers' thing). Using mplayer with its current driver is an exercise in weird ghosting and jitter -- it would be a neat effect if it were deliberate. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 12:45:56 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:45:56 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428B35DF.5050108-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 18, 2005 08:32 am, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I seem to remember someone on the list having mini-ITX experience? > > Does the EPIA 800 have enough processing power to play DVDs smoothly > under Linux? I've managed to acquire a mini-ITX box that was retired > from a satellite comms system, with the ultimate aim of building a > silent, low-power media box. > > Current spec: c3 800, Trident Cyberblade i1 integrated graphics, 640MB > PC133 RAM, 60GB 5400rpm Toshiba notebook drive, Gentoo 2005.0. > > It looks like support for the Cyberblade is extremely weak under Linux > (it's the usual 'proprietary drivers' thing). Using mplayer with its > current driver is an exercise in weird ghosting and jitter -- it would > be a neat effect if it were deliberate. > > cheers, > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Looking here http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-pvrhwdb.php?find=via+epia&search=find&sort_mode=lmodified_desc It seems that some other people have had some success using similar boards. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 13:48:26 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:48:26 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <428B2DC7.7080309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson@eol.ca> <428B2DC7.7080309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050518134826.GA18847@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 07:57:59AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: > >On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) > >Peter wrote: > > > > > >> > >>On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > >> > >> > >>>My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a > >>>connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is > >>>expensive, around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. > >> > >>5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per > >>minute. How much money do you make ? > > > > > > More importantly, how many websites are surfable by a cellphone. I can > > surf the web with my Telus cellphone, but most commercial websites are > > unreadable by devices with small text displays. > > > > I was hoping to connect my notebook computer, to my cell phone, for > wireless access, but at the rates Rogers charges, it's far too > expensive. As for the browser, many sites are charged on a per use basis. Telus has the same sort of $10/MB charge as Rogers, but they offer an unlimited plan for $100/month. I haven't gotten past the investigation yet to see how it works in practice. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 13:54:04 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:04 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <20050518134826.GA18847-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson@eol.ca> <428B2DC7.7080309@rogers.com> <20050518134826.GA18847@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <428B48FC.8020705@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 07:57:59AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>Howard Gibson wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) >>>Peter wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a >>>>>connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is >>>>>expensive, around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. >>>> >>>>5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per >>>>minute. How much money do you make ? >>> >>> >>> More importantly, how many websites are surfable by a cellphone. I can >>> surf the web with my Telus cellphone, but most commercial websites are >>> unreadable by devices with small text displays. >>> >> >>I was hoping to connect my notebook computer, to my cell phone, for >>wireless access, but at the rates Rogers charges, it's far too >>expensive. As for the browser, many sites are charged on a per use basis. > > > Telus has the same sort of $10/MB charge as Rogers, but they > offer an unlimited plan for $100/month. I haven't gotten > past the investigation yet to see how it works in practice. > I'm only looking for occasional use, so I'm not going to pay $100 month. But at the occasional use rates, any reasonable activity is very expensive and as someone else mentioned, far above the costs for an equivalent phone call. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:11:59 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:11:59 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <428B48FC.8020705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> <428648E3.8090407@rogers.com> <20050517214025.69c9e736.hgibson@eol.ca> <428B2DC7.7080309@rogers.com> <20050518134826.GA18847@lupus.perlwolf.com> <428B48FC.8020705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050518141159.GC18847@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 09:54:04AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > John Macdonald wrote: > >On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 07:57:59AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > >>Howard Gibson wrote: > >> > >>>On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:07:47 +0300 (IDT) > >>>Peter wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>On Sat, 14 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>My cell phone has a browser built in and it also supports via GPRS, a > >>>>>connection to a computer. I haven't tried it, as the service is > >>>>>expensive, around 5 cents/Kbyte, on Rogers. > >>>> > >>>>5 cents/kByte for a GPRS speed of about 10kBytes/sec is about 30$ per > >>>>minute. How much money do you make ? > >>> > >>> > >>> More importantly, how many websites are surfable by a cellphone. I can > >>> surf the web with my Telus cellphone, but most commercial websites are > >>> unreadable by devices with small text displays. > >>> > >> > >>I was hoping to connect my notebook computer, to my cell phone, for > >>wireless access, but at the rates Rogers charges, it's far too > >>expensive. As for the browser, many sites are charged on a per use basis. > > > > > >Telus has the same sort of $10/MB charge as Rogers, but they > >offer an unlimited plan for $100/month. I haven't gotten > >past the investigation yet to see how it works in practice. > > > > I'm only looking for occasional use, so I'm not going to pay $100 month. > But at the occasional use rates, any reasonable activity is very > expensive and as someone else mentioned, far above the costs for an > equivalent phone call. You can enable and disable the plan, and it will be prorated for the portion of the month that you actually use. So, if you plan for a few days of intensive use but mostly have no use at all, this works. However, as you say, for irregular small amounts of use, the charges are way out of line with the benefits (unless you have a critical business need). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:42:04 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:42:04 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <200505180845.57001.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=2 You can get the proprietary drivers from here if you don't mind tainting your system. Apparently there's an MPEG2 decoder built into the graphics card so you should have no trouble at all playing DVDs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:43:29 2005 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:43:29 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <1115909604.9586.2.camel@localhost> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> <1115909604.9586.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050518144329.GD4174@smeagol> Thanks for all the recommendations. He ended up finding one that worked from the "corner store" (You know the computer store on the corner that looks like it was a convinience store in a former life?) for a fraction of the price and that instantly worked. emma :) -- Emma Jane Hogbin Guild of Accessible Web Designers :: www.gawds.org consulting: www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:44:48 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:44:48 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428B2E01.2050007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4@mail.look.ca> <428B2E01.2050007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Stronger anti-copying measures for Windows would be excellent. Almost everyone I know runs Windows but I think only one or two of them is using a copy that they bought, or received bundled with their computer. Home users would flock to GNU/Linux if they actually had to pay $300 for Windows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:56:06 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:56:06 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050518144329.GD4174@smeagol> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> <1115909604.9586.2.camel@localhost> <20050518144329.GD4174@smeagol> Message-ID: <428B5786.2020409@rogers.com> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Thanks for all the recommendations. He ended up finding one that worked > from the "corner store" (You know the computer store on the corner that > looks like it was a convinience store in a former life?) for a fraction of > the price and that instantly worked. > > emma :) > Did you get some milk while you were there? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 14:58:33 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:58:33 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20050517230159.6c971fa4@mail.look.ca> <428B2E01.2050007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428B5819.6090201@rogers.com> Mike Newman wrote: > Stronger anti-copying measures for Windows would be excellent. Almost > everyone I know runs Windows but I think only one or two of them is > using a copy that they bought, or received bundled with their > computer. Home users would flock to GNU/Linux if they actually had to > pay $300 for Windows. A while back, Intel was talking about putting a serial number on the CPU. This could have been used to verify single use, when Windows phones home to register. However, that was killed, due to "privacy" concerns. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 15:02:21 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: <20050518124902.GC23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050518124902.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 12:34:59AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote: >> ... Also, my dvd player seemed to have trouble >> playing the disc, I don't know if this is because of the authoring method >> or because it was a crappy disc. > What type of media? Remember some dvd players prefer DVD-R, some prefer > DVD+R and some like nothing but stamped DVDs. Many players don't like > any +RW/-RW media. > I tried making a video DVD+RW and it didn't play well at all (rather > confused really) a DVD player that was a few years old, while a brand > new $60 dvd player played it just fine. Using a DVD-R it worked > perfectly on both. It was a DVD+R disc. My DVD player says it can handle both DVD-R and DVD+R (and RW), and the +R discs worked okay with copies of pressed DVDs I had made with vobcopy. (BTW, these copies were of discs I had purchased legally, and the copies are for my own personal use.) JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 15:11:15 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:11:15 -0400 Subject: MySQL and/or PostgreSQL databases for new users? In-Reply-To: <20050518023912.GB13047-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518023912.GB13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <428B5B13.70306@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > 2. How do I create a database and a user for each new user on the > system, preferably in both MySQL and PostgreSQL? For PostgreSQL, assuming you're root, 1) You need to prepare the root account to do this. I'm assuming you're using the standard "postgres" account for the postgres master. cat > /root/.pgpass < /home/$USER/.pgpass < --- Mike Newman wrote: > Stronger anti-copying measures for Windows would be > excellent. Almost > everyone I know runs Windows but I think only one or > two of them is > using a copy that they bought, or received bundled > with their > computer. Home users would flock to GNU/Linux if > they actually had to > pay $300 for Windows. Well, the last (legit) copy of Windows I got was free (a giveaway from Microsoft as part of their "we are afraid of open source" tour last month :-) ). But quite frankly I wam waiting for the other shoe to drop with the proposed hardware security changes. The saying used to be (back in the day) that "DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run". The point then was that Microsoft wanted to kill the biggest non-Microsoft spreadsheet program, and they had no qualms about "tweaking" MS-DOS to hurt the Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet program. With Linux, Microsoft can NOT tweak the software that Linux depends on, but by putting preasure on hardware vendors they can put through hardware changes that will hurt Linux. Face it Microsoft got their 90+% market share not by offering a very good product at a reasonable price (the way say Heinz achieved dominance in the ketchup market). Microsoft achived their position by using their dominance in one area (DOS, then Windows) to extend dominance into other areas (application programs, game consoles, etc., etc.). One of the things that keeps Linux a serious threat to Microsoft is that it can run on cheap easily available hardware, take that away and Linux gets hit with a serious blow, a blow I am sure Microsoft would be happy to inflict... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 15:42:07 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Mike Newman wrote: > > Stronger anti-copying measures for Windows would > be excellent. Almost > > everyone I know runs Windows but I think only one > or two of them is > > using a copy that they bought, or received bundled > with their > > computer. Home users would flock to GNU/Linux if > they actually had to > > pay $300 for Windows. > > A while back, Intel was talking about putting a > serial number on the > CPU. This could have been used to verify single > use, when Windows > phones home to register. However, that was killed, > due to "privacy" > concerns. Intel has been putting serial numbers in their microcontroller CPU chips (for doing things like controlling industrial equipment where having a unique number can be very valueable). Intel did include serial numbers in some versions of the Pentium III but this was a "feature" that got killed (due to public outcry) in the Pentium IV and Celeron CPU chips. Still this would be a trivial "feature" to add to systems, either as part of the CPU or as some sort of external dongle (i.e. "to use this software you must plug in this USB memory key"). Now, external dongles have never been very popular even though they have been tried many times since the Commodore 64 days (and before)... Not sure how you could make something like serial numbers fly... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 16:57:14 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:57:14 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050518154207.93300.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > Intel has been putting serial numbers in their > microcontroller CPU chips (for doing things like > controlling industrial equipment where having a unique > number can be very valueable). Intel did include > serial numbers in some versions of the Pentium III but > this was a "feature" that got killed (due to public > outcry) in the Pentium IV and Celeron CPU chips. Still > this would be a trivial "feature" to add to systems, > either as part of the CPU or as some sort of external > dongle (i.e. "to use this software you must plug in > this USB memory key"). Now, external dongles have > never been very popular even though they have been > tried many times since the Commodore 64 days (and > before)... Not sure how you could make something like > serial numbers fly... My understanding of the Longhorn security hardware is that it will include a TPM ( Trusted Platform Module ). IBM ships TPMs from Atmel in many of their Thinkpads today. The TPM can store public/private key pairs uses to validate the software being booted, loaded or installed. MS has used similar approaches on their mobile platforms ( Smartphone etc.. ) but generally suffered from alot of implementation problems. If implemented right is pretty hard to get un-signed software to work at all. I think it will be interesting to see how MS handles the key distribution for Longhorn. This could be the weak-link in their TPC architecture. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 19:06:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:06:20 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 12:57:14PM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: > My understanding of the Longhorn security hardware is that it will > include a TPM ( Trusted Platform Module ). IBM ships TPMs from Atmel > in many of their Thinkpads today. The TPM can store public/private > key pairs uses to validate the software being booted, loaded or > installed. MS has used similar approaches on their mobile platforms > ( Smartphone etc.. ) but generally suffered from alot of > implementation problems. If implemented right is pretty hard to get > un-signed software to work at all. I think it will be interesting to > see how MS handles the key distribution for Longhorn. This could be > the weak-link in their TPC architecture. The key validation stuff is also optional for runing longhorn according to what I have read, so PC makers don't have to include it. I wonder if MS has some kind of carrot to offer them for including it, and to consumers for putting up with it. After all you would think leaving a feature out of the system is cheaper than including it and people tend to buy what is cheapest. Besides the worst that can happen is that microsoft kills the wintel industry and we all move over to powerpc. After all the game consoles have all headed that way, why shouldn't Linux users? IBM seems to like the idea. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 19:53:50 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:53:50 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> Thanks, Jason and Mike, but my board -- the Via EPIA 800 -- has neither that graphics adaptor, nor those nifty MPEG decoders. Via did themselves a disservice, I think, by having so many quite different motherboards with very similar names. Thanks, though. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 20:16:19 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:16:19 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050518190620.GE23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Besides the worst that can happen is that microsoft kills the wintel > industry and we all move over to powerpc. After all the game consoles > have all headed that way, why shouldn't Linux users? IBM seems to like > the idea. Because we can go with Opterons instead? That said, the ppc is no slouch, and the power5 is just dishy. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCi6KTgfzn5SevSpoRAqbNAJ90BJeaW0EoRhrmjM20HoFa4/kutQCfXBUN +VEfPeSyCxmJrhLl5gKC6M4= =YSBU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 20:58:21 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:58:21 -0700 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428BA293.8040901-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051813585d7fb411@mail.gmail.com> On 5/18/05, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Besides the worst that can happen is that microsoft kills the wintel > > industry and we all move over to powerpc. After all the game consoles > > have all headed that way, why shouldn't Linux users? IBM seems to like > > the idea. > > Because we can go with Opterons instead? That said, the ppc is no > slouch, and the power5 is just dishy. My guess is that IBM would like to see the Cell processor they've been working on (with Sony and Toshiba) take off. It's to be the main power behind the new Playstation console, with processing power roughly equivalent to that of a supercomputer. Looks like a decent amount of information on it can be found at http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell0.html -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:22:02 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:22:02 -0400 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050518142243638b46@mail.gmail.com> > > Sorry, I accidentally kicked the cable. Should be working now. Anybody kick something? :-) Looks, from here, like the images are broke on the wiki. Not a terribly big deal, but looks a little odd. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:38:16 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:38:16 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428B9D4E.2090704-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Thanks, Jason and Mike, but my board -- the Via EPIA 800 -- has neither > that graphics adaptor, nor those nifty MPEG decoders. Via did themselves > a disservice, I think, by having so many quite different motherboards > with very similar names. I think the best you get with that card is Xv optimization. I believe there are also some compiler optimizations for the VIA chipsets, you should probably enable these if Gentoo doesn't pick them up automagically. I'd also suggest looking at ALSA or OSS for the sound. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:38:57 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:38:57 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: <20050516232820.GA5835-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516232820.GA5835@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: For navigating through past commands and the current commandline, I'm quite a fan of: set -o vi I've started to get out of the habit of using the arrow keys... ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:52:19 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:52:19 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428BA293.8040901-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050518215219.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 04:16:19PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Because we can go with Opterons instead? That said, the ppc is no > slouch, and the power5 is just dishy. The opteron systems aren't immune from having MS tell board makers what features they want installed to run future versions of windows. Of course people are free not to buy from companies that listen to Microsoft. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:51:23 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:51:23 -0400 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050518142243638b46-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> <99a6c38f050518142243638b46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428BB8DB.1060404@rogers.com> psema4 wrote: >>>Sorry, I accidentally kicked the cable. Should be working now. > > > Anybody kick something? :-) > > Looks, from here, like the images are broke on the wiki. Nothing a little duct tape can't fix. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 21:53:19 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:53:19 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428B9D4E.2090704-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050518215319.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 03:53:50PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Thanks, Jason and Mike, but my board -- the Via EPIA 800 -- has neither > that graphics adaptor, nor those nifty MPEG decoders. Via did themselves > a disservice, I think, by having so many quite different motherboards > with very similar names. So add a PVR-350, it does hardware decoding and encoding and has Linux support. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 22:40:05 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 18:40:05 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft Monthly Meeting Tomorrow Message-ID: <1116456005.7537.6.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is tomorrow, Thursday May 19 2005 at 7:00 pm at Orwell's Pub near the Islington subway stop. Email Mel Wilson (http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html) if you want to attend. Discussion topic to be announced. PegaSoft is an association of Linux developers, consultants and professionals who get together to have dinner and discuss Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 00:58:31 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 19:58:31 -0500 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050518142243638b46-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> <99a6c38f050518142243638b46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, psema4 wrote: > > > Sorry, I accidentally kicked the cable. Should be working now. > > Anybody kick something? :-) > > Looks, from here, like the images are broke on the wiki. Not a > terribly big deal, but looks a little odd. I'm dumb, and blindly cut-and-paste into vital configuration files without proofreading. Whoops! =) That was a function of one layer of security.. hotlinking is now disabled. I can also selectively and silently redirect such hotlinks to other things if I liked. =) All of this wouldn't be possible if I only read the man pages.. googling is so much more productive. It gives me solutions, not vague explanations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 01:05:23 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:05:23 -0400 Subject: Wiki has officially moved In-Reply-To: References: <20050516164413.GB26621@unleashed.org> <20050516164755.GD26621@unleashed.org> <20050516174217.GH26621@unleashed.org> <99a6c38f050518142243638b46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051818056ba91068@mail.gmail.com> > All of this wouldn't be possible if I only read the man pages.. > googling is so much more productive. It gives me solutions, not vague > explanations. heheh - you missed your opening tag... XML parser aborting due to error. ;-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 01:09:34 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:09:34 -0500 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050518154207.93300.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > Intel has been putting serial numbers in their > microcontroller CPU chips (for doing things like > controlling industrial equipment where having a unique > number can be very valueable). Intel did include > serial numbers in some versions of the Pentium III but > this was a "feature" that got killed (due to public > outcry) in the Pentium IV and Celeron CPU chips. Still > this would be a trivial "feature" to add to systems, > either as part of the CPU or as some sort of external > dongle (i.e. "to use this software you must plug in > this USB memory key"). Now, external dongles have > never been very popular even though they have been > tried many times since the Commodore 64 days (and > before)... Not sure how you could make something like > serial numbers fly... My company's product uses a hardware dongle (safe net inc's[1] "superpro"). I knew some guys who were involved with cracking software which used dongles. The c64 software dongle protection was so cool.. Dongles would actually be pretty well received as an OS protection mechanism, considering how many USB ports people have. Laptop users would cry over it though.. maybe a pc card or cflash or some other type of card would do the trick. TWD industry's[1] "remote anything" has a serial number based on the mac address of the network card. I think that's a decent middle ground. It's only slightly difficult to clone a mac address. =/ (I never did it, but I have the instructions around here somewhere..) I totally don't respect copy protection. It requires hardware which is not user-servicable, not user-accessible in any form and such.. otherwise it's just pathetic. The push for computers which are just dumb terminals hooked up to a highspeed connection, or a closed hardware/firmware/drivers/operating system would be the only two reasonably successful ways of preventing various forms of content/software/whatever piracy. Well whatever.. I'm ranting.. I'm not part of the solution anyways. ;) [1] http://www.safenet-inc.com/ [2] http://www.twd-industries.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 02:05:25 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 22:05:25 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050518215219.GF23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> <20050518215219.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 04:16:19PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > Because we can go with Opterons instead? That said, the ppc is no > > slouch, and the power5 is just dishy. > > The opteron systems aren't immune from having MS tell board makers what > features they want installed to run future versions of windows. Of > course people are free not to buy from companies that listen to > Microsoft. The particular danger is in the notion of "next gen" disk drives having 'copy protection' technology pushed into them. Thus, instead of an ATA interface, you get to talk to a "smart drive" that speaks some sort of Microsoft file networking protocol. This gets the RIAA/MPAA folk behind it, as this can help enforce the "Preventing Mickey Mouse From Becoming Free Acts." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 03:08:50 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:08:50 -0400 Subject: DVD Authoring In-Reply-To: References: <20050517141935.F18797@diamond.ss.org> <20050518124902.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428C0342.4090907@geek-girls.ca> John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 18 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> What type of media? Remember some dvd players prefer DVD-R, some prefer >> DVD+R and some like nothing but stamped DVDs. Many players don't like >> any +RW/-RW media. >> I tried making a video DVD+RW and it didn't play well at all (rather >> confused really) a DVD player that was a few years old, while a brand >> new $60 dvd player played it just fine. Using a DVD-R it worked >> perfectly on both. > > > It was a DVD+R disc. My DVD player says it can handle both DVD-R and > DVD+R (and RW), and the +R discs worked okay with copies of pressed > DVDs I had made with vobcopy. > > (BTW, these copies were of discs I had purchased legally, and the > copies are for my own personal use.) > > JV Remember that DVD-R is the "real" DVD format; +R's are as I understand it a little further from the original DVD-ROM spec. See the trade page at http://www.dvdforum.org/tech-dvdbook.htm But the flipside is that +RW is apparently a better re-writeable format: http://www.videohelp.com/dvd -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 03:11:51 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:11:51 -0400 Subject: WTB: SuSE Pro 9.3 boxed sets In-Reply-To: <42826D54.6000500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200505100022.27761.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050511201040.GB14001@lupus.perlwolf.com> <42826D54.6000500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428C03F7.1070604@geek-girls.ca> James Knott wrote: > John Macdonald wrote: > >> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 11:17:47AM -0400, Colin Smillie wrote: >> >>> On 5/10/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: >>> >>> Sub300.com might have it, they were featured in Slashdot a few months >>> ago for providing a variety of PCs with linux pre-installed ( >>> including SuSE ). >> >> >> >> Looking casually through their website right now, there is no >> hint that they would consider anything other than Linspire. >> > > I think you're supposed to ask about other distros. When I was up there last summer they were kind enough to give me Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 discs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 03:14:32 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:14:32 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> Colin Smillie wrote: > > I think the best you get with that card is Xv optimization. I believe > there are also some compiler optimizations for the VIA chipsets, you > should probably enable these if Gentoo doesn't pick them up > automagically. I'd also suggest looking at ALSA or OSS for the sound. Yup, I've got all of those. gcc knows about the c3 processor. ALSA works just fine. It's just that the graphics can keep up with maybe one frame in ten from a DVD ... I just checked on a mini-ITX specialist board. They said I was getting the performance I'd expect. Sigh. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 05:43:46 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:43:46 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 May 2005, Sy wrote: > I totally don't respect copy protection. It requires hardware which > is not user-servicable, not user-accessible in any form and such.. > otherwise it's just pathetic. The push for computers which are just > dumb terminals hooked up to a highspeed connection, or a closed > hardware/firmware/drivers/operating system would be the only two > reasonably successful ways of preventing various forms of > content/software/whatever piracy. Why is a lockdown to hardware better knowing that todays hardware is not expected to last 2 years of continuous operation ? A dongle or chipcard can be pulled and put into the followup machine as opposed to a fried motherboard or cpu s/n, not to mention hard disk s/n etc. xp already uses these items to lock the os to the instance of hardware one is running. I find locking to physical hardware that is known to fail often and hard is worse than locking to a piece of removable media (like a Dallas button, chipcard, or something like that). The current model requires re-registration every 2 years or so because the hardware tends to last that long. The total span of support is 6 years maximum so far (last supported = win98, we are in 2005). So whatever software you buy is not expected to last more than 5 years no matter what and no matter how many times you upgrade. Consider this when computing the TCO on something that costs $3k a license. I have operating 10 year old software (and older) and telco and other people use tons of computing equipment from the early 1990's. They use hardware license keys. So does your tv set top box, your bank (credit card) etc. Yes it can be annoying but other things are much more annoying (like the need to 'call home' for systems that are not intended to ever be connected to the outside world). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed May 18 15:19:06 2005 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:19:06 -0400 Subject: recommend a PCI wireless card? In-Reply-To: <20050518144329.GD4174@smeagol> References: <20050512032937.GA10527@smeagol> <1115909604.9586.2.camel@localhost> <20050518144329.GD4174@smeagol> Message-ID: <200505181119.06833.dbmacg@look.ca> So which one worked? On May 18, 2005 10:43 am, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Thanks for all the recommendations. He ended up finding one that worked > from the "corner store" (You know the computer store on the corner that > looks like it was a convinience store in a former life?) for a fraction of > the price and that instantly worked. > > emma :) -- --- Duncan MacGregor --Toronto -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 13:28:13 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 09:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: > Why is a lockdown to hardware better knowing that todays hardware is not > expected to last 2 years of continuous operation ? A dongle or chipcard > can be pulled and put into the followup machine... It would not surprise me in the slightest if the Official Microsoft Specs required that the identifying hardware *not* be removable. Chairman Bill is not interested in making your life easy. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 14:50:05 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:50:05 -0400 Subject: Evolution: Error While Fetching Mail Message-ID: <1116514205.428ca79d3d4de@216.129.205.5> Hey, I am having a problem with getting my mail through Evolution. This was all working fine until last week when my office had to move. I was going to have to work from home so I wanted to backup all my mail and move it home. However, something happened after I backed up my mail. Whenever I try to fetch my mail from my Work computer using evolution-2.0 I get this error: Error While Fetching Mail: Cannot get POP summary: Operation now in progress I don't know if this has anything to do with my backing up files, but it happened directly after the fact. I just went in and tared up the mail folders. Thanks for any help/suggestions. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 15:10:26 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:10:26 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428C0498.1040108-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050519151026.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 11:14:32PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Yup, I've got all of those. gcc knows about the c3 processor. ALSA works > just fine. It's just that the graphics can keep up with maybe one frame > in ten from a DVD ... > > I just checked on a mini-ITX specialist board. They said I was getting In my experience, a 400MHz P2 can do DVD playback IFF the video card has xvideo acceleration support so that it can handle the YUV decoding in hardware (which is a major cpu load of playing most video on a computer). If your video card does not do that, you probably need around 1 to 1.5GHz to do the job reliably. So to use that board you probably have to add either a video card that support xvideo in X or one that actually has supported mpeg2 decoding. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 15:17:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> <20050518215219.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050519151740.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 10:05:25PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > The particular danger is in the notion of "next gen" disk drives > having 'copy protection' technology pushed into them. They tried to do that a few years ago in the ATA standards, and then it was pointed out to the standards commity just how bad an idea this would be (by I believe the linux ide driver guy who is on the ATA standards comitee as far as I know) and suddenly the manufacturers that were behind the proposal didn't want to back it anymore. > Thus, instead of an ATA interface, you get to talk to a "smart drive" > that speaks some sort of Microsoft file networking protocol. > > This gets the RIAA/MPAA folk behind it, as this can help enforce the > "Preventing Mickey Mouse From Becoming Free Acts." I really doubt they will convince the drive makers to do it. MS needed to get a harddisk with custom firmware made for the xbox to do excatly that kind of lockdown, while I am sure they would love to have had the ATA DRM proposal pass so they could have used stock drives instead. Too bad for microsoft. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 15:29:36 2005 From: magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Alex) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3 - no desktop Message-ID: <20050519152936.37236.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have freshly installed FC3, I am running into 2 problems : 1) After logging-in in the GUI style I just get a blank desktop with a terminal window open with not menu's at all. What am I doing wrong here for this to happen ? 2) Telnet is not working. I have installed telnet-server on this box but cannot telnet from another machine. Locally I can telnet to localhost and also to the IP number of the box. Possibly it could be the firewall but I don't have enough knowledge to figure this out. Any help is greatly appreciated. tia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 16:58:37 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:58:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: >> Why is a lockdown to hardware better knowing that todays hardware is not >> expected to last 2 years of continuous operation ? A dongle or chipcard >> can be pulled and put into the followup machine... > > It would not surprise me in the slightest if the Official Microsoft Specs > required that the identifying hardware *not* be removable. Chairman Bill > is not interested in making your life easy. What is 'removable' ? Let it sit there, under Linux it could be put to good use providing salt and entropy for cryptography. Or just ignore it and use better algorythms. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 17:00:18 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:00:18 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, not I see what you meant by 'not removable'. I was suggesting the possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as the identifying device (or part of it). That would be removable by definition, although there are dallas parts that can be soldered onto a board too. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 17:02:59 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:02:59 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050519151740.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518154207.93300.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050518190620.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428BA293.8040901@ca.afilias.info> <20050518215219.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050519151740.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I really doubt they will convince the drive makers to do it. MS needed > to get a harddisk with custom firmware made for the xbox to do excatly > that kind of lockdown, while I am sure they would love to have had the > ATA DRM proposal pass so they could have used stock drives instead. Too > bad for microsoft. I think that you do not realise that all hdds and practically all intelligent devices nowadays have flash memory. The 'custom firmware' is a version of the firmware that was flashed for them by the factory. If you pay enough money you can special order a lot of things. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 16:44:49 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 12:44:49 -0400 Subject: FC3 - no desktop In-Reply-To: <20050519152936.37236.qmail-H8Ola0o0w/uB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519152936.37236.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200505191244.49711.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 19, 2005 11:29 am, Anthony Alex wrote: > I have freshly installed FC3, I am running into 2 problems : > > 1) After logging-in in the GUI style I just get a blank desktop with a > terminal window open with not menu's at all. What am I doing wrong here > for this to happen ? a) take a look at /var/log/messages to see if there are any reported errors. b) Did all the required gnome packages install correctly? c) take a look at your gdm.conf, in gentoo it is located at /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf d) does logging in as root ( only for a minute, test & then log out ) have the same effect? d) try going to a console as root. type # telinit 3 # startx gnome ( or gnome-session I can't remember what fedora calls it ) and see if that works at all, or what different error messages you get. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 17:20:50 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: > Oh, [now] I see what you meant by 'not removable'. I was suggesting the > possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as the identifying device... Chairman Bill is likely to write his own specs for this rather than relying on existing designs. I think it all too likely that the specs will demand that the identification hardware be an integral part of the CPU or motherboard chipset and *not* readily movable from machine to machine. He *wants* you to have to buy new software licences when you replace old/dead hardware. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 17:51:39 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: > > Oh, [now] I see what you meant by 'not removable'. > I was suggesting the > > possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as > the identifying device... > > Chairman Bill is likely to write his own specs for > this rather than > relying on existing designs. I think it all too > likely that the specs > will demand that the identification hardware be an > integral part of the > CPU or motherboard chipset and *not* readily movable > from machine to > machine. He *wants* you to have to buy new software > licences when you > replace old/dead hardware. Very true, and the other thing Chairman Bill wants is to crush Open Source OSs (Linux and the BSDs), as Microsoft's true cash cow is the OS market. Microsoft will not let go of the OS cash cow without a major fight, and from what we have seen in the past Microsoft fights (very) dirty. If the hardware is set-up in a way that requires some sort of patented crypto code be passed around before the CPU will run it, then Microsoft wins on several levels, anti-virus, anti-open source, and a way to @#$% all other proprietary application vendors (who will have to bow down and obtain Microsoft's blessing in order to stay in business, plus pay some sort of licence fee...). Now, a move like the above would be very clearly monopolistic, but given the sort of near non-existant slaps on the wrist Microsoft has received to date, well, the Bush Administration is very unlikely to anything real about Microsoft. Further 3.5 years from now Microsoft knows they may get another U.S. Government as unwilling to take serious action as the current administration. In other words if I was enough of a S.O.B. to work for Microsoft, the hardware security thing as a way to score a few more 10s of billions of $ would be a no-brainer... There is a joke that says you should never mud wrestle a pig as you both get filthy, and the pig enjoys it. The question for us as fans of open source is how to avoid mud wrestling Microsoft? A fight is comming were we can expect Microsoft to use hardware, PR, and the legal system to crush open source (Microsoft's passing tens of millions of dollars to SCO should I suspect just be seen as the first shot of many...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 19:35:43 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:35:43 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050519175139.81972.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <428CEA8F.9010401@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Henry Spencer wrote: > >>On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: >> >>>Oh, [now] I see what you meant by 'not removable'. >> >>I was suggesting the >> >>>possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as >> >>the identifying device... >> >>Chairman Bill is likely to write his own specs for >>this rather than >>relying on existing designs. I think it all too >>likely that the specs >>will demand that the identification hardware be an >>integral part of the >>CPU or motherboard chipset and *not* readily movable >>from machine to >>machine. He *wants* you to have to buy new software >>licences when you >>replace old/dead hardware. > > > Very true, and the other thing Chairman Bill wants is > to crush Open Source OSs (Linux and the BSDs), as > Microsoft's true cash cow is the OS market. Microsoft > will not let go of the OS cash cow without a major > fight, and from what we have seen in the past > Microsoft fights (very) dirty. If the hardware is > set-up in a way that requires some sort of patented > crypto code be passed around before the CPU will run > it, then Microsoft wins on several levels, anti-virus, > anti-open source, and a way to @#$% all other > proprietary application vendors (who will have to bow > down and obtain Microsoft's blessing in order to stay > in business, plus pay some sort of licence fee...). > > Now, a move like the above would be very clearly > monopolistic, but given the sort of near non-existant > slaps on the wrist Microsoft has received to date, > well, the Bush Administration is very unlikely to > anything real about Microsoft. Further 3.5 years from > now Microsoft knows they may get another U.S. > Government as unwilling to take serious action as the > current administration. Don't forget about IBM. If all else fails, they can push the PowerPC or cell for running Linux and other. And of course, they can always roll their own x86. Then there's other countries in the world, such as China, that either want to run Linux or loosen MS's grip or both. I suspect that even MS wouldn't be able to escape antitrust, if they set up a system, where only their software can run on hardware. If the U.S. government allowed it, there'd be howls from around the world about trade barriers etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 19:59:34 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 12:59:34 -0700 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <20050519175139.81972.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The MAJOR issue for MS is that they can't do anything to piss everyone off at once. If they upset the hardware vendors and the app vendors in one move, then it just forces more people to use linux. If they can come up with a way to help the hardware people "sell more hardware" then they can really screw the rest of us bigtime. In the meantime, I don't think that MS has enough of the hardware people in their pocket to force this sort of thing down our throats. -Joseph- On 5/19/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: > > > Oh, [now] I see what you meant by 'not removable'. > > I was suggesting the > > > possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as > > the identifying device... > > > > Chairman Bill is likely to write his own specs for > > this rather than > > relying on existing designs. I think it all too > > likely that the specs > > will demand that the identification hardware be an > > integral part of the > > CPU or motherboard chipset and *not* readily movable > > from machine to > > machine. He *wants* you to have to buy new software > > licences when you > > replace old/dead hardware. > > Very true, and the other thing Chairman Bill wants is > to crush Open Source OSs (Linux and the BSDs), as > Microsoft's true cash cow is the OS market. Microsoft > will not let go of the OS cash cow without a major > fight, and from what we have seen in the past > Microsoft fights (very) dirty. If the hardware is > set-up in a way that requires some sort of patented > crypto code be passed around before the CPU will run > it, then Microsoft wins on several levels, anti-virus, > anti-open source, and a way to @#$% all other > proprietary application vendors (who will have to bow > down and obtain Microsoft's blessing in order to stay > in business, plus pay some sort of licence fee...). > > Now, a move like the above would be very clearly > monopolistic, but given the sort of near non-existant > slaps on the wrist Microsoft has received to date, > well, the Bush Administration is very unlikely to > anything real about Microsoft. Further 3.5 years from > now Microsoft knows they may get another U.S. > Government as unwilling to take serious action as the > current administration. > > In other words if I was enough of a S.O.B. to work for > Microsoft, the hardware security thing as a way to > score a few more 10s of billions of $ would be a > no-brainer... > > There is a joke that says you should never mud wrestle > a pig as you both get filthy, and the pig enjoys it. > The question for us as fans of open source is how to > avoid mud wrestling Microsoft? A fight is comming were > we can expect Microsoft to use hardware, PR, and the > legal system to crush open source (Microsoft's passing > tens of millions of dollars to SCO should I suspect > just be seen as the first shot of many...). > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 20:09:21 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428CEA8F.9010401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428CEA8F.9010401@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > I suspect that even MS wouldn't be able to escape antitrust, if they set > up a system, where only their software can run on hardware... Oh, it would be done more subtly than that. It would be hyped as an anti-virus security precaution, or with some other noble-sounding motive. "Securing the information infrastructure", that's the ticket. And there would, of course, be provision for non-Microsoft software to be officially blessed. No monopolies here! But it would cost a lot, and require a lot of awkward procedures and compliance with stupid requirements, and it wouldn't be set up and operating right away, and the rules would keep changing, and and and... You get the picture. The theory would be fine, but the implementation would be ineptly done and so cumbersome that getting blessed would be very difficult in practice. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 21:04:32 2005 From: magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Alex) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 17:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables Message-ID: <20050519210432.20528.qmail@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would like to understand how the iptables work, can someone recommend a good book for a newbie for this topic? I mean from the ground up ? Unlike Windows, Linux can vary from system to system due the numerious distributions out there. Question pertaining to this, due to the fact that linux can be customized to one's need's, the original identity of the system can be sometimes totally lost. Is there a way to find out, what the original distribution was, before it was mangled ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 21:21:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 17:21:06 -0400 Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <20050519210432.20528.qmail-hzAHYBNgke+B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519210432.20528.qmail@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050519212106.GA5025@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:04:32PM -0400, Anthony Alex wrote: > I would like to understand how the iptables work, can someone > recommend a good book for a newbie for this topic? I mean from the > ground up ? > > Unlike Windows, Linux can vary from system to system due the numerious > distributions out there. Question pertaining to this, due to the fact > that linux can be customized to one's need's, the original identity > of the system can be sometimes totally lost. Is there a way to find > out, what the original distribution was, before it was mangled ? Actually, IPtable is fairly standard across all distro, because it's implemented through kernel modules. Same kernel, same modules. Rules by which packets are filtered are, of course, depend on situation. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:08:05 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:08:05 -0400 Subject: book on IP Tables Message-ID: <428D0E45.60908@rogers.com> > > >I would like to understand how the iptables work, can >someone recommend a good book for a newbie for this >topic? I mean from the ground up ? > Linux Firewalls by Bob Ziegler from New Riders Press ISBN# 0-7357-1099-6 The book is a bit pricey ($75.00) but well worth the money. FWIW, I bought it at Indigo. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:28:41 2005 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:28:41 -0400 Subject: Job/Contract: Apache, MySQL, PHP, etc. Message-ID: <428D1319.6030700@rogers.com> Hey all, A good friend of mine runs a business called Earthling Communications (http://earthling.biz/main.html). They're expanding their business and have taken on some new clients, and I volunteered to help them out on a part time basis. It's a paying gig, but not full time or anything. Problem is now that a project is getting off the ground I find myself becoming increasingly busy with my full time job. I need to transition away from Earthling but I want to hand it to someone who has the chops, isn't a dick and can get the job done. The immediate needs are some hardware configuration vetting, but coming up very soon will be backend work using MySQL, Apache, PHP and site replication between here and an ISP in Florida. A bit of networking too. Really, it's all pretty standard stuff. Can anyone help take this off of my hands? Please note that they are not interested in other technologies, what's picked is what they're going with for now. Regards, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:30:34 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:30:34 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > The MAJOR issue for MS is that they can't do anything to piss everyone > off at once. [snip] Sorry about taking the quote out of context, but Microsoft is trying to take out patents on portions of email and IMAP (in Canada at least) - doing so puts an awful lot of organizations at risk of potential lawsuits. That sounds to me like they don't care much about pissing everyone off at once. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:40:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:40:35 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> psema4 wrote: > On 5/19/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > >>The MAJOR issue for MS is that they can't do anything to piss everyone >>off at once. [snip] > > > Sorry about taking the quote out of context, but Microsoft is trying > to take out patents on portions of email and IMAP (in Canada at least) > - doing so puts an awful lot of organizations at risk of potential > lawsuits. > > That sounds to me like they don't care much about pissing everyone off at once. > My understanding, is that you can't get patents on prior art. I'd like to see them prove that they "invented" those things, when they've been around for years. I guess they're taking a page from Daryl McBrides book, on claiming rights to everything. He's even claimed IBM's JFS, which was originally developed for OS/2. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:47:36 2005 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:47:36 -0400 Subject: Another job ad (security work) ;) Message-ID: <428D1788.9020604@rogers.com> Hey all, While I'm on the topic of jobs, my fulltime employer nCircle (ncircle.com) is looking for some more people. The work is in the realm of vulnerability management, and is some pretty cool security type stuff. We're looking for an vulnerability engineer, a QA dude/dudette, and a technical manager. I'm too lazy to post links or stuff, so just hit monster.ca and search on 'ncircle'. Best of luck to y'all! Later, B p.s. We've had to deal with alot of fluff, so mention my name in order that you don't accidentally chucked. Also, if you get hired, I get $1000 .. if you make it, I'll give you $100 of that in beer ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 22:56:02 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:56:02 -0400 Subject: Another job ad (security work) ;) In-Reply-To: <428D1788.9020604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428D1788.9020604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050519155636204f35@mail.gmail.com> > p.s. We've had to deal with alot of fluff, so mention my name in order > that you don't accidentally chucked. Also, if you get hired, I get $1000 > .. if you make it, I'll give you $100 of that in beer ;) Lol. Now that's what I call advertising! :-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 23:02:48 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:02:48 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428D15E3.1010206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05051916024417382@mail.gmail.com> > >>The MAJOR issue for MS is that they can't do anything to piss everyone > >>off at once. [snip] > > > > Sorry about taking the quote out of context, but Microsoft is trying > > to take out patents on portions of email and IMAP (in Canada at least) > > - doing so puts an awful lot of organizations at risk of potential > > lawsuits. > > > > That sounds to me like they don't care much about pissing everyone off at once. > > > > My understanding, is that you can't get patents on prior art. I'd like > to see them prove that they "invented" those things, when they've been > around for years. I guess they're taking a page from Daryl McBrides > book, on claiming rights to everything. He's even claimed IBM's JFS, > which was originally developed for OS/2. This is part of another conversation but hilights (and links directly to one of the patent abstracts) the issue. [-- excerpt starts --] Microsoft is also trying to claim "ownership" to parts of IMAP in a *CANADIAN* patent application (for those who didn't realize that CIPO unilaterally changed Canadian patent policy without judicial or parliamentary oversight). http://patents1.ic.gc.ca/details?patent_number=2451875 It says it hasn't been granted yet, if people want to take on the task of challenging bogus patent applications. [-- excerpt ends --] When I get a chance, I'll expand on it in the wiki.... Speaking of wiki, it appears to be down. :( -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 23:04:11 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:04:11 -0400 Subject: Another job ad (security work) ;) In-Reply-To: <428D1788.9020604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428D1788.9020604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428D1B6B.9080508@rogers.com> The only position I see, is "Vulnerability Research Manager". I'd be more interested in the QA dude (I don't have the qualifications to be a dudette. ) tnx jk Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Hey all, > > While I'm on the topic of jobs, my fulltime employer nCircle > (ncircle.com) is looking for some more people. The work is in the realm > of vulnerability management, and is some pretty cool security type stuff. > > We're looking for an vulnerability engineer, a QA dude/dudette, and a > technical manager. > > I'm too lazy to post links or stuff, so just hit monster.ca and search > on 'ncircle'. Best of luck to y'all! > > Later, > B > > p.s. We've had to deal with alot of fluff, so mention my name in order > that you don't accidentally chucked. Also, if you get hired, I get $1000 > .. if you make it, I'll give you $100 of that in beer ;) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 23:05:56 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:05:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050519230556.82733.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> I just wanted to mention the obvious; there's pretty good documentation (FAQ, tutorials etc) at the iptables homepage: http://www.netfilter.org/ Fernando --- Anthony Alex wrote: > I would like to understand how the iptables work, > can > someone recommend a good book for a newbie for this > topic? I mean from the ground up ? > > Unlike Windows, Linux can vary from system to system > due the numerious distributions out there. Question > pertaining to this, due to the fact that linux can > be > customized to one's need's, the original identity > of > the system can be sometimes totally lost. Is there a > way to find out, what the original distribution > was, > before it was mangled ? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 19 23:16:40 2005 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:16:40 -0400 Subject: Another job ad (security work) ;) In-Reply-To: <428D1B6B.9080508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428D1788.9020604@rogers.com> <428D1B6B.9080508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428D1E58.2010602@rogers.com> > The only position I see, is "Vulnerability Research Manager". I'd be > more interested in the QA dude (I don't have the qualifications to be a > dudette. ) Hehe... I can fixt that, surgery is a hobby of mine ;) http://jobsearch.monster.ca/getjob.asp?JobID=30257272&AVSDM=2005%2D05%2D18+20%3A50%3A23&Logo=1&cy=CA&q=ncircle&sort=rv&vw=b http://jobsearch.monster.ca/getjob.asp?JobID=29176357&AVSDM=2005%2D04%2D13+16%3A54%3A08&Logo=1&cy=CA&q=ncircle&sort=rv&vw=b Those be the links. Can't remember which is the engineering position, and which is the manager. If yer after the QA position, I'd just send in an application for the eng position. The jobs are substantially similar anyways. Perhaps mention in the cover letter you're after a more QA oriented position. Hope this helps, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 00:04:52 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:04:52 -0500 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051916024417382-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f05051916024417382@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/05, psema4 wrote: > When I get a chance, I'll expand on it in the wiki.... Speaking of > wiki, it appears to be down. :( Leah has done some voodoo, and it will be back up shortly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 00:05:47 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:05:47 -0500 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f05051916024417382@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/05, Sy wrote: > On 5/19/05, psema4 wrote: > > > When I get a chance, I'll expand on it in the wiki.... Speaking of > > wiki, it appears to be down. :( > > Leah has done some voodoo, and it will be back up shortly. > I don't mean to say that it's her voodoo which took it down.. it was faulty hardware (the hd) =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 00:07:06 2005 From: magalex-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Alex) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050520000706.84720.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William Park wrote: > On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:04:32PM -0400, Anthony > Alex wrote: > is there a way to find > > out, what the original distribution was, before > it was mangled ? > > Actually, IPtable is fairly standard across all > distro, because it's > implemented through kernel modules. Same kernel, > same modules. Rules > by which packets are filtered are, of course, depend > on situation. BTW, thanks to all for their ideas/suggestions. Yes, i understand this part. Perhaps my question was not clear - I am indirectly working on a distro which was, I believe hardened for firewall purpose. From my little experience this system, I cannot tell what distro it is ? Is there a way to dig this out ? I'm just curious. uname -a, dmesg did not show anything specific.... TIA, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:01:55 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:01:55 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428C0498.1040108-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Yup, I've got all of those. gcc knows about the c3 processor. ALSA works > just fine. It's just that the graphics can keep up with maybe one frame > in ten from a DVD ... > > I just checked on a mini-ITX specialist board. They said I was getting > the performance I'd expect. Sigh. Have you tried ripping the DVD to disk or tried other formats? You may even be able to encode to something less CPU intensive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:24:27 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:24:27 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c55cda$aa35b6c0$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Joseph Kubik" on Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:59 PM wrote: >The MAJOR issue for MS is that they can't do anything to piss everyone >off at once. If they upset the hardware vendors and the app vendors in >one move, then it just forces more people to use linux. >If they can come up with a way to help the hardware people "sell more >hardware" then they can really screw the rest of us bigtime. How about this as a possible scenario, Microsoft goes to the hardware vendors and says something like, "Our Windows 2008 will be a CPU, memory and hard disk sucking PIG that would eat current generation machines for breakfast (assuming current generation machines could run our software). Now if you want to sell computers into that market you will need to include the following anti-terrorist/security spec...". Said spec. will of course include some sort of patented goodie that will hurt the open source market other proprietary software and it will encourage people to move from older versions of Windows when the old hardware dies. Microsoft will licence said goodie to the hardware vendors for pennies per unit, and the hardware will also (at least in volume) only add pennies to the cost per machine. So, with visions of massive volumes of new computers being sold the hardware vendors will be VERY happy to go along with Microsoft's spec.. Ok so there is the clause that (for any practical purpose) stops the hardware vendors from making non-spec. hardware for the open source market, but in order to sell into the Microsoft market that will be a small price to pay, right??? >In the meantime, I don't think that MS has enough of the hardware >people in their pocket to force this sort of thing down our throats. >-Joseph- Microsoft I am sure could line up hardware vendors very fast. The only question is the marketing campaign, do they stress the anti-virus, the security, the better "value" (lower virus inspired support costs...) or do they stress something else... Colin McGregor On 5/19/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Peter wrote: > > > Oh, [now] I see what you meant by 'not removable'. > > I was suggesting the > > > possible use of a dallas ibutton or chipcard as > > the identifying device... > > > > Chairman Bill is likely to write his own specs for > > this rather than > > relying on existing designs. I think it all too > > likely that the specs > > will demand that the identification hardware be an > > integral part of the > > CPU or motherboard chipset and *not* readily movable > > from machine to > > machine. He *wants* you to have to buy new software > > licences when you > > replace old/dead hardware. > > Very true, and the other thing Chairman Bill wants is > to crush Open Source OSs (Linux and the BSDs), as > Microsoft's true cash cow is the OS market. Microsoft > will not let go of the OS cash cow without a major > fight, and from what we have seen in the past > Microsoft fights (very) dirty. If the hardware is > set-up in a way that requires some sort of patented > crypto code be passed around before the CPU will run > it, then Microsoft wins on several levels, anti-virus, > anti-open source, and a way to @#$% all other > proprietary application vendors (who will have to bow > down and obtain Microsoft's blessing in order to stay > in business, plus pay some sort of licence fee...). > > Now, a move like the above would be very clearly > monopolistic, but given the sort of near non-existant > slaps on the wrist Microsoft has received to date, > well, the Bush Administration is very unlikely to > anything real about Microsoft. Further 3.5 years from > now Microsoft knows they may get another U.S. > Government as unwilling to take serious action as the > current administration. > > In other words if I was enough of a S.O.B. to work for > Microsoft, the hardware security thing as a way to > score a few more 10s of billions of $ would be a > no-brainer... > > There is a joke that says you should never mud wrestle > a pig as you both get filthy, and the pig enjoys it. > The question for us as fans of open source is how to > avoid mud wrestling Microsoft? A fight is comming were > we can expect Microsoft to use hardware, PR, and the > legal system to crush open source (Microsoft's passing > tens of millions of dollars to SCO should I suspect > just be seen as the first shot of many...). > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:35:50 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <20050520000706.84720.qmail-dwIQhI7JidyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520000706.84720.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Anthony Alex wrote: > BTW, thanks to all for their ideas/suggestions. > Yes, i understand this part. Perhaps my question was > not clear - I am indirectly working on a distro which > was, I believe hardened for firewall purpose. From my > little experience this system, I cannot tell what > distro it is ? Is there a way to dig this out ? I'm > just curious. > uname -a, dmesg did not show anything specific.... > TIA, cat /etc/*release* -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:00:41 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:00:41 -0400 Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <20050520000706.84720.qmail-dwIQhI7JidyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520000706.84720.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200505192100.41568.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On May 19, 2005 08:07 pm, Anthony Alex wrote: > Perhaps my question was > not clear - I am indirectly working on a distro which > was, I believe hardened for firewall purpose. From my > little experience this system, I cannot tell what > distro it is ? Is there a way to dig this out ? I'm > just curious. > uname -a, dmesg did not show anything specific.... > TIA, > -- Try cat /etc/*-release or ls /etc/*release /etc/*version -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:41:49 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:41:49 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows References: Message-ID: <005601c55cdd$171f9240$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Henry Spencer" on Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:09 PM wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > > I suspect that even MS wouldn't be able to escape antitrust, if they set > > up a system, where only their software can run on hardware... > > Oh, it would be done more subtly than that. It would be hyped as an > anti-virus security precaution, or with some other noble-sounding motive. > "Securing the information infrastructure", that's the ticket. Yes, that is exactly the sort of thing Microsoft could/would pull... > And there would, of course, be provision for non-Microsoft software to be > officially blessed. No monopolies here! But it would cost a lot, and > require a lot of awkward procedures and compliance with stupid > requirements, and it wouldn't be set up and operating right away, and the > rules would keep changing, and and and... You get the picture. The > theory would be fine, but the implementation would be ineptly done and so > cumbersome that getting blessed would be very difficult in practice. Again yes. You would also have say five firms doing stuff in such low volumes as not to interest Microsoft (say a firm that does something like wind load math for windmills) who will get their software blessed by Microsoft. This way when people say that getting Microsoft has made getting a licence impossible, Microsoft will have their "useful idiots" that they can haul out before the press. As I think Henry Spencer understands, but many others on this list don't understand, Microsoft sees business as ABSOLUTE TOTAL WAR. Take NO prisoners, pour salt into the grounds of your enemies, destroy everyone else utterly is Microsoft's game plan. There is NO possibility for peaceful co-existence from Microsoft's standpoint. I suspect the only reason Microsoft (just) BARELY tolerates the existence of Apple computer is that they can be useful when fending off monopoly claims from governments... We in the open source community are something to be killed off ASAP from Microsoft's view... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 01:52:38 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:52:38 -0400 Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f05051916024417382@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428D42E6.3010709@rogers.com> Sy wrote: > On 5/19/05, psema4 wrote: > > >>When I get a chance, I'll expand on it in the wiki.... Speaking of >>wiki, it appears to be down. :( > > > Leah has done some voodoo Kicked the cable again? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 03:02:55 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 23:02:55 -0400 Subject: FC3 - no desktop In-Reply-To: <20050519152936.37236.qmail-H8Ola0o0w/uB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519152936.37236.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050519230255.46aa171f.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Anthony Alex wrote: > I have freshly installed FC3, I am running into 2 problems : > > 1) After logging-in in the GUI style I just get a blank desktop with a terminal window open with not menu's at all. What am I doing wrong here for this to happen ? > > 2) Telnet is not working. I have installed telnet-server on this box but cannot telnet from another machine. Locally I can telnet to localhost and also to the IP number of the box. Possibly it could be the firewall but I don't have enough knowledge to figure this out. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > tia Alex, From the login window, take a look at your session. What you did was launch the X_Window System without a window manager. You want Gnome or KDE. If you are adventurous, you can try ICEwm, or FVWM or TWM. You may have to install some of these. I cannot remember how you launch X11 by itself. I would guess you selected "default", or something like that. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 02:57:41 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:57:41 -0400 Subject: Any experience with DataWind Wireless Pocket web Surfer? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1115689160.24822.6.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050510035051.GA32027@thecat.localnet> <4282C346.5070709@istop.com> <428642BB.1090608@istop.com> <99a6c38f0505141147433e5ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428D5225.2080705@istop.com> Regarding high costs of sending/receiving data... I spoke today with people at datawind.ca (they are willing to talk with anybody; contact info is available at their web site http://www.datawind.ca) . Somebody mentioned, I think, 5 cents per 1 kB on Rogers? Fido is used by these from DataWind themself. They pay 50 C$ per month for unlimited use. They say that costs in USA are even much lower, of the order of 20 US$ per month. They told me also that the costs of data connections should go much lower once these web browsing toys become more popular. And they will. I had an opportunity to use their PocketSurfer. It is a really nice tool (the server is running on Windows NT; I should have a chance one day to talk with technical people, to learn more about how they are doing all this). PocketSurfer has indeed high quality images, a nothing that one would like to compare with on other "mobile" toys, except of course the screen on a real computer. It loads web pages quite fast. They told me that within days a new version will be available, much even faster. The speed is an issue but if you look to this: http://www.datawind.com/comparisons.html#BANDWIDTH%20CONSUMPTION it becomes clear that their speed and data transfer is superior. I wonder what sort of compression they use. zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 05:33:26 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 08:33:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <428D15E3.1010206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99a6c38f050519153066009a2e@mail.gmail.com> <428D15E3.1010206@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, James Knott wrote: > My understanding, is that you can't get patents on prior art. I'd like to Imho a certain patent authority has been successfully proving you wrong for the last 20 years or so. If you have to spend $10 million and 3 years in court to prove it was 'prior art' then it's not necessarily prior art. As long as it happens in a confined place, like a country, I'd call it a private circus. Once it would start spreading, I'd call it cancer however. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 05:49:14 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 08:49:14 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Hardware security in PCs to accompany new Windows In-Reply-To: <005001c55cda$aa35b6c0$5001a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519175139.81972.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <005001c55cda$aa35b6c0$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: > Microsoft I am sure could line up hardware vendors very fast. The only > question is the marketing campaign, do they stress the anti-virus, the > security, the better "value" (lower virus inspired support costs...) or do > they stress something else... I am not sure what they could line up. Nobody is blind and their os license is the single largest item on the price list of a consumer/small server system, it is more expensive than many 3.2GHz cpus, and as silicon costs fall it will soon exceed them, with its spiraling cost. Usually when manufacturers look for ways to increase sales by reducing price they look at items listed in that order (by cost) and attack the highest item on the list that can be attacked. Sometimes this means outsourcing or labor cuts. I expect parties interested in the bottom line to react on this. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 06:00:08 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:00:08 +0300 (IDT) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: References: <20050520000706.84720.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Anthony Alex wrote: >> BTW, thanks to all for their ideas/suggestions. >> Yes, i understand this part. Perhaps my question was >> not clear - I am indirectly working on a distro which >> was, I believe hardened for firewall purpose. From my >> little experience this system, I cannot tell what >> distro it is ? Is there a way to dig this out ? I'm >> just curious. >> uname -a, dmesg did not show anything specific.... >> TIA, > > cat /etc/*release* missing on many distributions. cat /etc/motd could be a better choice ;-( Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 08:17:50 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 11:17:50 +0300 (IDT) Subject: ms on the offensive again Message-ID: Found via slashdot http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051801770.html ms is preparing a w95/98 replacement 'light' xp that can run on older machines. It is aimed directly at preventing linux from making inroads where the hardware upgrades are not welcome. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbarkwell-05pvsIyEU8vQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 10:33:00 2005 From: dbarkwell-05pvsIyEU8vQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Barkwell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 06:33:00 -0400 Subject: FC3 - no desktop In-Reply-To: <20050519152936.37236.qmail-H8Ola0o0w/uB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050519152936.37236.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200505200633.01176.dbarkwell@pelism.com> Look in /etc/sysconfig/desktop If you are using KDE change the value in /etc/sysconfig/desktop to KDE and start X. DB On May 19, 2005 11:29 am, Anthony Alex wrote: > I have freshly installed FC3, I am running into 2 problems : > > 1) After logging-in in the GUI style I just get a blank desktop with a > terminal window open with not menu's at all. What am I doing wrong here > for this to happen ? > > 2) Telnet is not working. I have installed telnet-server on this box but > cannot telnet from another machine. Locally I can telnet to localhost and > also to the IP number of the box. Possibly it could be the firewall but I > don't have enough knowledge to figure this out. Any help is greatly > appreciated. > > tia -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 12:52:50 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 08:52:50 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > Found via slashdot > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051801770.html > > > ms is preparing a w95/98 replacement 'light' xp that can run on older > machines. It is aimed directly at preventing linux from making inroads > where the hardware upgrades are not welcome. "Goffe said Microsoft will continue to recommend that the best way to get more out of any operating system is to replace computers when they get old." An of course, that new hardware comes with a new Windows licence. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 13:19:04 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:19:04 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <428DDDA2.6000004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050520091904.3d2311b9.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:52:50 -0400 James Knott wrote: > Peter wrote: > > > > Found via slashdot > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051801770.html > > > > > > ms is preparing a w95/98 replacement 'light' xp that can run on older > > machines. It is aimed directly at preventing linux from making inroads > > where the hardware upgrades are not welcome. Two can play at that game :-) I've had a number of support calls from people who are still running Win 95/98 and I put up an article giving them some basic advice and recommending that they use LiveCDs as emergency support and switch to Linux. I'm still looking for a good distro to recommend for that purpose - has anyone had good experiences with one in particular Article at http://www.memeshadow.net/newcs/csblog/?q=node/8&PHPSESSID=65dae304c12132240b9d594e48bebee0 Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 13:35:57 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:35:57 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <20050519151026.GH23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> <20050519151026.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428DE7BD.7070508@sympatico.ca> Hmm, a lot of options here. Basically, what I'm wanting to build is: * a silent PC that draws very little power (hey, I mean, I can hardly be Mr Green Energy if my PC's CPU alone draws 1/3 of the average European domestic load ...) * a DVD player * a CD player * (I'm undecided if I want one of these) a TV/PVR sort of thing. As Lennart said, a Hauppauge decoder card might solve most of these problems. But the regular graphics performance of the EPIA 800 under Linux is pretty poor, so I might be yoking a thoroughbred to a carthorse. It might be cheaper for me to buy one of the newer mini-ITX boards (that have supported graphics, MPEG en-/de-coding, and handy things like USB2.0 and 1394) and a much cheaper TV tuner card than buy the Hauppauge. I'll need to cost it out. If people are interested, I'll blog and/or wiki my findings. Colin said: > Have you tried ripping the DVD to disk or tried other formats? You > may even be able to encode to something less CPU intensive. This might work, but I guess Catherine might not go for this. Waiting a few hours to watch what we brought back from Blockbuster could have repurcussions. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 13:56:31 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:56:31 -0400 Subject: MySQL and/or PostgreSQL databases for new users? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f05051800415a4de856-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518023912.GB13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <99a6c38f05051800415a4de856@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050520135631.GA28400@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 03:41:52AM -0400, psema4 wrote: >On 5/17/05, William O'Higgins wrote: >> 2. How do I create a database and a user for each new user on the >> system, preferably in both MySQL and PostgreSQL? >I've been meaning to write a wrapper for the longest time - you >finally gave me an excuse to do it. :-) > >You can find an example wrapper using perl here: >http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Psema4Topic_General_Programming Thanks to Scott and Andrew for the script and advice. I hacked on the script for a while (mostly adding Andrew's PostgreSQL stuff and adding strict and warnings pragmas) and it is in place and working. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 14:01:06 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <428DDDA2.6000004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Peter wrote: >> >> Found via slashdot >> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051801770.html >> >> ms is preparing a w95/98 replacement 'light' xp that can run on older >> machines. It is aimed directly at preventing linux from making inroads >> where the hardware upgrades are not welcome. > > "Goffe said Microsoft will continue to recommend that the best way to > get more out of any operating system is to replace computers when they > get old." > > An of course, that new hardware comes with a new Windows licence. > -- MS tried that "light Windoze version" trick with the Brazilian government last month but the response they got was that this would still force them into a single supplier situation for the add-on software and was rejected. Why wait for a "new" proprietary (read: expensive) product when the ideal solution already exists: Open Source! Fran?ois Ouellette "If you want creative workers, give them enough time to play." -- JOHN CLEESE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 14:05:29 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:05:29 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again Message-ID: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> In the article I read, it was stated that the new MS offering would only work on older hardware and that it would refuse to install if it encountered a P4, Athlon, Semptron et al. This is another case of Gates and his band of merry men shooting themselves in the foot by providing a major selling point to Linux. IE Why buy crippled software that won't let you upgrade your machine, when you can get a state of the art OS for free. I would imagine that a distro like Mandriva, that already has a major presence in Latin America, is rubbing its hand in glee at the prospect. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 14:12:07 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428DE7BD.7070508-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428DE7BD.7070508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > It might be cheaper for me to buy one of the newer mini-ITX boards... > If people are interested, I'll blog and/or wiki my findings. Please post at least a summary. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 14:35:59 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:35:59 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On 5/20/05, Francois Ouellette wrote: > > Peter wrote: > >> > >> Found via slashdot > >> > >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051801770.html > >> > >> ms is preparing a w95/98 replacement 'light' xp that can run on older > >> machines. It is aimed directly at preventing linux from making inroads > >> where the hardware upgrades are not welcome. > > > > "Goffe said Microsoft will continue to recommend that the best way to > > get more out of any operating system is to replace computers when they > > get old." > > > > An of course, that new hardware comes with a new Windows licence. > > -- > > MS tried that "light Windoze version" trick with the Brazilian government > last month but the response they got was that this would still force them > into a single supplier situation for the add-on software and was rejected. > > Why wait for a "new" proprietary (read: expensive) product when the ideal > solution already exists: Open Source! Actually, I think this is Microsoft *finally* listening to the Windows 95/98 users that they abandoned over the last few years. In hindsight, it would have been smarter to continue to support Windows 95/98 users with small upgrades, rather than just steamroll over everyone and tell them "Your computer and OS are crap. Throw it all out and start again." it's the same mentality that American car makers espouse -- "You car's three years old? It's junk! Get a new car!!" This, compared to the ads that Volvo or Volkswagen run, boasting about how their cars are still on the road ten years later, thank you very much. The thing is, once you get a computer system working the way you like it, there's some inertia to overcome before you switch to a new system. I have a Windows 98 system that I started using in March 1998 -- it's now seven years old, but I resisted upgrading to Windows 2000, Windows ME (whatever that was) and by the time Windows XP came out I knew a P400 with 384M RAM wouldn't cut it. Why? Everything was working. Why upgrade? I have piles of application software that works well. Oh yeah, and I also have two Mandrake 10 installations that I use to do everything except audio editing. Once I get that figured out on Linux, the Windows machine gets archived and recycled. I'm really surprised that Microsoft took this stance with their customers -- if you have a new product that you're pushing and a trailing edge product that you continue to release small updates for, you've got both ends of the market -- new customers and old. If the customer doesn't want the new product (too complicated, too new, won't run on my hardware), they'll look elsewhere -- and that's when they find open source. I work in a building owned by a car dealership -- the new car lot is on one side of the building, and on the other side is the used car lot. Sometimes people prefer a 'pre-owned' car to a new one. The car dealership is playing both sides of the street. Microsoft is venturing into this territory by supplying an XP Lite. I think continuing to support Windows 98 would have served them better, but we're a few years late for that. People don't always want something new. They just want something that works. Microsoft would do well to learn that lesson, and fast. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 14:57:14 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:57:14 -0400 Subject: Job/Contract: Apache, MySQL, PHP, etc. In-Reply-To: <428D1319.6030700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <428D1319.6030700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428DFACA.9090007@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Byron L. Sonne wrote: > The immediate needs are some hardware configuration vetting, but coming > up very soon will be backend work using MySQL, Apache, PHP and site > replication between here and an ISP in Florida. A bit of networking too. You're going to be deeply disappointed with the "replication" solutions for MySQL, assuming database replication is part of site replication plan. If you're looking to do database replication to a remote site, then I strongly suggest you consider postgres / slony1 > Please note that they are not interested in other technologies, > what's picked is what they're going with for now. My condolonces. MySQL and PHP are great choices for rapidly developed and deployed toy systems. But they're terrible choices for business critical systems. Sounds like a company planning for failure. But I wish them luck anyway. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCjfrJgfzn5SevSpoRAjuwAKCQkNNUngvApQL7FDD2njnVVDfUQACfa4TM 9k+EaxBzGRTt/BvbCOSoVKA= =ZaUw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:05:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:05:12 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050520170512.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 10:35:59AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > it's the same mentality that American car makers espouse -- "You car's > three years old? It's junk! Get a new car!!" This, compared to the ads > that Volvo or Volkswagen run, boasting about how their cars are still > on the road ten years later, thank you very much. How about being unable to buy spare parts for a 10 year old american car. It makes no sense. If they didn't think changing them every single model year they wouldn't have to many different spare parts and they would be able to stock parts for 20 or 30 years of models. Of course it probably is a matter of trying to force people to buy a new car instead. My dad has no problems getting parts for a 20 year old Mercedes, but for a 10 year old Pontiac it is much harder. > Why? Everything was working. Why upgrade? I have piles of application > software that works well. Oh yeah, and I also have two Mandrake 10 > installations that I use to do everything except audio editing. Once I > get that figured out on Linux, the Windows machine gets archived and > recycled. I would think something like this combo should do well: EMU 10k1 or 10k2 based card (SB Live! or Audigy) ALSA drivers for that card (Most Audigy and Live! cards are supported, but check first with ALSA to be sure). Audacity audio editor/recorder. Seems to be getting quite a bit of press from both the linux and windows world lately. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:09:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:09:20 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <428DE7BD.7070508-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> <20050519151026.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428DE7BD.7070508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050520170920.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 09:35:57AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Hmm, a lot of options here. Basically, what I'm wanting to build is: > > * a silent PC that draws very little power (hey, I mean, I can hardly be > Mr Green Energy if my PC's CPU alone draws 1/3 of the average European > domestic load ...) > * a DVD player > * a CD player > * (I'm undecided if I want one of these) a TV/PVR sort of thing. > > As Lennart said, a Hauppauge decoder card might solve most of these > problems. But the regular graphics performance of the EPIA 800 under > Linux is pretty poor, so I might be yoking a thoroughbred to a carthorse. > > It might be cheaper for me to buy one of the newer mini-ITX boards (that > have supported graphics, MPEG en-/de-coding, and handy things like > USB2.0 and 1394) and a much cheaper TV tuner card than buy the > Hauppauge. I'll need to cost it out. The hauppage is not that expensive and is generally regarded as by far the best choice in tuner card for linux. The 250 doesn't have hardware decoding so it is cheaper if you plan to use the vga connector and do decoding in software anyhow. It still does hardware mpeg2 encoding though. If you want to display on a regular tv (svideo perhaps) the hauppage cards are handy for sending the video out that way. MythTV can even run on that card's output while regular X works on the vga display at the same time doing other things. The remote control (linux supported) is also nice on the hauppage cards and who doesn't want a remote. I suspect a new board with usb2 and firewire and all that shouldn't be that expensive and a low power semptron or even athlon64 isn't bad to use. They use much less power than a P4. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:15:56 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:15:56 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? Message-ID: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it pronouced - me-shell - mike-kell -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:20:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:20:07 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520171556.GA2601-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050520172007.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:15:56PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > pronouced > - me-shell Isn't that one usually spelled Michelle? > - mike-kell That one is how I pronounce 'Michael' Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:34:31 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:34:31 -0400 Subject: MySQL and/or PostgreSQL databases for new users? In-Reply-To: <20050520135631.GA28400-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050518023912.GB13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <99a6c38f05051800415a4de856@mail.gmail.com> <20050520135631.GA28400@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <428E1FA7.60503@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 William O'Higgins wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 03:41:52AM -0400, psema4 wrote: >>>2. How do I create a database and a user for each new user on the >>>system, preferably in both MySQL and PostgreSQL? > > Thanks to Scott and Andrew for the script and advice. I hacked on the > script for a while (mostly adding Andrew's PostgreSQL stuff and adding > strict and warnings pragmas) and it is in place and working. Please point postgresql newbies at the pgsql-novice list. It's an excellent resource for beginners. No question is too basic. http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/ Also, if there's sufficient interest I could put together a presentation on Postgres for beginners for TLUG. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCjh+mgfzn5SevSpoRAsofAKCxjbvBUgd9oGB7FlPl8kyWMueT8ACfYF1a uVCbox7ilVH2tV1CRUHl3Ao= =0v+z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:36:09 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:36:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2005, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Why wait for a "new" proprietary (read: expensive) product when the ideal > solution already exists: Open Source! Please don't preach to the penguins. I've been using Linux as a desktop for ~9 years. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:40:12 2005 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:40:12 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520172007.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050520172007.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200505201340.12626.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 20, 2005 01:20 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:15:56PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > > pronouced > > - me-shell > > Isn't that one usually spelled Michelle? only in the anglicised version. > > - mike-kell > > That one is how I pronounce 'Michael' if you're french, "michael" is pronounced "mi,shelle", but is still referred to as masculine. "michelle" is the anglicised version of "michael" (biblical), and i'm not sure i'm not sure it's heavily used in non-english circles. as an added point of interest: http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html (java required) -- dream big and dare to fail. - norman d. vaughan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:42:21 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <200505201340.12626.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050520172007.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200505201340.12626.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <21880.206.186.8.130.1116610941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > On May 20, 2005 01:20 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:15:56PM -0400, William Park wrote: >> > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it >> > pronouced >> > - me-shell >> >> Isn't that one usually spelled Michelle? > > only in the anglicised version. > >> > - mike-kell >> >> That one is how I pronounce 'Michael' > > if you're french, "michael" is pronounced "mi,shelle", but is still > referred > to as masculine. "michelle" is the anglicised version of > "michael" (biblical), and i'm not sure i'm not sure it's heavily used in > non-english circles. > > as an added point of interest: > > http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html > (java required) > > > -- > dream big and dare to fail. > - norman d. vaughan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Actually, it's Michel for a man and Michelle or Mich?le for a woman. Or Michaela for a woman too! Fran?ois Ouellette "If you want creative workers, give them enough time to play." -- JOHN CLEESE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:44:14 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:44:14 +0300 (IDT) Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2005, John McGregor wrote: > and his band of merry men shooting themselves in the foot by providing a > major selling point to Linux. IE Why buy crippled software that won't > let you upgrade your machine, when you can get a state of the art OS for > free. I would imagine that a distro like Mandriva, that already has a You don't expect the powers that be to show any *Common Sense*, do you ? I mean, after all the c**p that's been flowing ? And, most of the world is not Brazil (the 6th largest nation in the world, after the EU considered as a whole, in despite of its internal divisions, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population ), afaik. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 17:50:18 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:50:18 +0300 (IDT) Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520171556.GA2601-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2005, William Park wrote: > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > pronouced > - me-shell > - mike-kell Michael is male. Mishelle is female. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 18:11:15 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:11:15 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <008301c55d67$50709fa0$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "William Park" on Friday, May 20, 2005 1:15 PM wrote: > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > pronouced > - me-shell > - mike-kell Michael is normally a man's name pronounced "mike-kell". No doubt there are some strange exceptions out there ... back in the 1960s singer Johnny Cash did a fairly funny song titled "A Boy Named Sue" about a boy who grew up with a girls name... Still, normally you can count on Michael to be male, and the female version of Michael would normally be Michelle normally pronounced me-shell... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 18:24:42 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:24:42 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? [OT] In-Reply-To: <20050520172007.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050520172007.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428E2B6A.1020506@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Isn't that one usually spelled Michelle? As in: A guy goes to fancy dress party, dressed normally, but with his girlfriend on his back. The host says: "Hey, this is a fancy dress party. What are you supposed to be?" The guy replies, "A turtle." "A turtle!? I don't get it. What's she doing?", asks the host. Replies the guy, "Oh, she's Michelle." Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 18:47:23 2005 From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:23 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> How about Michael Learned of the Waltons (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0495229/bio) Michael Steele of the Bangles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele_%28musician%29) The former I know is pronounced mike-kell. -----Original Message----- From: Colin McGregor [mailto:colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] Sent: May 20, 2005 2:11 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (off topic) man or woman? "William Park" on Friday, May 20, 2005 1:15 PM wrote: > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > pronouced > - me-shell > - mike-kell Michael is normally a man's name pronounced "mike-kell". No doubt there are some strange exceptions out there ... back in the 1960s singer Johnny Cash did a fairly funny song titled "A Boy Named Sue" about a boy who grew up with a girls name... Still, normally you can count on Michael to be male, and the female version of Michael would normally be Michelle normally pronounced me-shell... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 19:02:49 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 15:02:49 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <20050520170512.GJ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:05:12PM -0400 References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050520170512.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050520150249.I18797@diamond.ss.org> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:05:12PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 10:35:59AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > > it's the same mentality that American car makers espouse -- "You car's > > three years old? It's junk! Get a new car!!" This, compared to the ads > > that Volvo or Volkswagen run, boasting about how their cars are still > > on the road ten years later, thank you very much. > > How about being unable to buy spare parts for a 10 year old american > car. It makes no sense. If they didn't think changing them every > single model year they wouldn't have to many different spare parts and > they would be able to stock parts for 20 or 30 years of models. Of > course it probably is a matter of trying to force people to buy a new > car instead. My dad has no problems getting parts for a 20 year old > Mercedes, but for a 10 year old Pontiac it is much harder. This reminds me of a little adventure I had in 2002. I needed to change a gas filter, so I went to my local gas filter store (Canadian Tire) and counted in the two isles of gas filters 148 different type, none of which fit my car (they had to specially order that one). That evening I was browsing the internet and decided to google gas filters. I discovered a 'vintage' car page that described that the 1942 gas filter which is still in common use today, fit a Ford, a GM, a Jeep, a Tank, and a Airplane engine at the time. I can assume that perhaps there are certain variations that could be justified in what is effectively a closed cylinder with a coffee filter mounted on it, but is there really 148 useful permitations? I thought I would share that. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 18:59:31 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:59:31 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> Message-ID: <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Jim Skehill" on Friday, May 20, 2005 2:47 PM wrote: > How about > Michael Learned of the Waltons (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0495229/bio) > Michael Steele of the Bangles > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele_%28musician%29) > > The former I know is pronounced mike-kell. Fair enough, though this bit in the biography of Michael Learned did catch my eye: "She was originally billed "Miss Michael Learned" on "The Waltons" (1972) not out of ego or demand, but for the simple fact that Ms. Learned was unknown to the public at the time she won the role of Olivia and the powers that be did not want the audience to be confused about her gender." While it might not be quite as clear cut as I suggested in my original reply, I would still say male would be by far the way to bet when you see the name Michael... > -----Original Message----- > From: Colin McGregor [mailto:colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] > Sent: May 20, 2005 2:11 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (off topic) man or woman? > > > "William Park" on Friday, May 20, 2005 1:15 PM > wrote: > > > Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it > > pronouced > > - me-shell > > - mike-kell > > Michael is normally a man's name pronounced "mike-kell". No doubt there are > some strange exceptions out there ... back in the 1960s singer Johnny Cash > did a fairly funny song titled "A Boy Named Sue" about a boy who grew up > with a girls name... Still, normally you can count on Michael to be male, > and the female version of Michael would normally be Michelle normally > pronounced me-shell... > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 19:57:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 15:57:37 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 02:59:31PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Fair enough, though this bit in the biography of Michael Learned did catch > my eye: > > "She was originally billed "Miss Michael Learned" on "The Waltons" (1972) > not out of ego or demand, but for the simple fact that Ms. Learned was > unknown to the public at the time she won the role of Olivia and the powers > that be did not want the audience to be confused about her gender." > > While it might not be quite as clear cut as I suggested in my original > reply, I would still say male would be by far the way to bet when you see > the name Michael... Well there seemed to be this run of people about 30 or 40 years ago that thought naming their girls with common male names would be a way to have them get further ahead in life since people would assume they were male when they saw resume's and other documents like that. I suspect all it ever did was cause confusion and grief for the girls. For example: Shannon, Beverley, etc. Some have even managed to now be assumed to be girls names by default. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 20:43:17 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:43:17 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: References: <20050520171556.GA2601@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <428E4BE5.3040900@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > On Fri, 20 May 2005, William Park wrote: > >> Is 'Michael' a woman's name or man's name? In other words, is it >> pronouced >> - me-shell >> - mike-kell > > > Michael is male. Not always. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0495229/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 20:48:50 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:48:50 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520195737.GM23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/20/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well there seemed to be this run of people about 30 or 40 years ago that > thought naming their girls with common male names would be a way to have > them get further ahead in life since people would assume they were male > when they saw resume's and other documents like that. I suspect all it > ever did was cause confusion and grief for the girls. > > For example: Shannon, Beverley, etc. > > Some have even managed to now be assumed to be girls names by default. Hmm. I would never associate those names as Male, though I know that there are other names which do cross boundaries (Kelly). However, it's a lot of fun to see for one's self: http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 20:55:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:55:10 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <20050520150249.I18797-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050520170512.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050520150249.I18797@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <428E4EAE.60806@rogers.com> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:05:12PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >>On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 10:35:59AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: >> >>>it's the same mentality that American car makers espouse -- "You car's >>>three years old? It's junk! Get a new car!!" This, compared to the ads >>>that Volvo or Volkswagen run, boasting about how their cars are still >>>on the road ten years later, thank you very much. >> >>How about being unable to buy spare parts for a 10 year old american >>car. It makes no sense. If they didn't think changing them every >>single model year they wouldn't have to many different spare parts and >>they would be able to stock parts for 20 or 30 years of models. Of >>course it probably is a matter of trying to force people to buy a new >>car instead. My dad has no problems getting parts for a 20 year old >>Mercedes, but for a 10 year old Pontiac it is much harder. > > > This reminds me of a little adventure I had in 2002. I needed to change a gas filter, so I went to my local gas filter store (Canadian Tire) and counted in the two isles of gas filters 148 different type, none of which fit my car (they had to specially order that one). > > That evening I was browsing the internet and decided to google gas filters. I discovered a 'vintage' car page that described that the 1942 gas filter which is still in common use today, fit a Ford, a GM, a Jeep, a Tank, and a Airplane engine at the time. > > I can assume that perhaps there are certain variations that could be justified in what is effectively a closed cylinder with a coffee filter mounted on it, but is there really 148 useful permitations? > > I thought I would share that. IIRC, at one time, gas filters were installed on the fuel line, ahead of the carburator. Now they're in with the fuel pump, at the bottom of the tank. It's easier to make a one size fits all filter, when it goes on the fuel line. Also, fuel injectors are a lot fussier than carburators, about clean gas, so the filters have to be better. Another factor, is way back when, the engine compartments etc., weren't as crowded, so there was more room to allow for off the shelf parts. Nowadays, designed to fit a tight space is more common. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 20:58:12 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:58:12 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520195737.GM23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 02:59:31PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>Fair enough, though this bit in the biography of Michael Learned did catch >>my eye: >> >>"She was originally billed "Miss Michael Learned" on "The Waltons" (1972) >>not out of ego or demand, but for the simple fact that Ms. Learned was >>unknown to the public at the time she won the role of Olivia and the powers >>that be did not want the audience to be confused about her gender." >> >>While it might not be quite as clear cut as I suggested in my original >>reply, I would still say male would be by far the way to bet when you see >>the name Michael... > > > Well there seemed to be this run of people about 30 or 40 years ago that > thought naming their girls with common male names would be a way to have > them get further ahead in life since people would assume they were male > when they saw resume's and other documents like that. I suspect all it > ever did was cause confusion and grief for the girls. > > For example: Shannon, Beverley, etc. > > Some have even managed to now be assumed to be girls names by default. And there are some, that are pronounced the same but spelled differently, according to gender. i.e. Leslie & Lesley. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:05:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:05:37 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050520210537.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 04:48:50PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > Hmm. I would never associate those names as Male, though I know that > there are other names which do cross boundaries (Kelly). However, > it's a lot of fun to see for one's self: > http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html Both Shannon and Beverley were male names in the past that got "hijacked". I even know someone that is around 35 or 40 that is named Shannon and is male, although I think it was probably already common as a female name as well when he was named. After all in english most female names (used to) end in a vowel and male names end in consonants. It doesn't seem to hold 100% but it certainly used to hold close to 100% of the time. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:07:14 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:07:14 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <428E4F64.40704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050520210714.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 04:58:12PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > And there are some, that are pronounced the same but spelled > differently, according to gender. i.e. Leslie & Lesley. Yeah by that example, Beverlie should be the female version of Beverley. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:10:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:10 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520210714.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> <20050520210714.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428E5232.1040706@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 04:58:12PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>And there are some, that are pronounced the same but spelled >>differently, according to gender. i.e. Leslie & Lesley. > > > Yeah by that example, Beverlie should be the female version of Beverley. Other way around. Leslie is the male spelling and Lesley, female. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:21:31 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:21:31 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <428E5232.1040706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> <20050520210714.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E5232.1040706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050520212131.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 05:10:10PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Other way around. Leslie is the male spelling and Lesley, female. Hmm, you may be right. I guess that explains Leslie Street. I have mainly seen Beverley as a last name lately. I have seen Shannon used for both male and female. I have even met both a male and female with the same last name, which didn't make things any less confusing. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:30:12 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:30:12 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <20050520212131.GP23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> <20050520210714.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E5232.1040706@rogers.com> <20050520212131.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <428E56E4.8070705@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 05:10:10PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>Other way around. Leslie is the male spelling and Lesley, female. > > > Hmm, you may be right. I guess that explains Leslie Street. > > I have mainly seen Beverley as a last name lately. I have seen Shannon > used for both male and female. I have even met both a male and female > with the same last name, which didn't make things any less confusing. I've met many men and women with the same last name. ;-) Actually, in some cultures, there's a minor difference in the male and female version of a last name. I knew one Polish woman, who said that when the male verion of a last name ends with "ski", the female version ends with "ska", for example "Polanski" and "Polanska". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 21:48:26 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:48:26 -0400 Subject: (off topic) man or woman? In-Reply-To: <428E56E4.8070705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD2120@RIKER> <009e01c55d6e$0e87e560$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050520195737.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E4F64.40704@rogers.com> <20050520210714.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E5232.1040706@rogers.com> <20050520212131.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428E56E4.8070705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <428E5B2A.6030904@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > > I've met many men and women with the same last name. ;-) > > Actually, in some cultures, there's a minor difference in the male and > female version of a last name. I knew one Polish woman, who said that > when the male verion of a last name ends with "ski", the female > version ends with "ska", for example "Polanski" and "Polanska". It just goes to show that men and women are Poles apart :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 22:44:07 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:44:07 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050520184407.13948ced.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:44:14 +0300 (IDT) Peter disseminated the following: > You don't expect the powers that be to show any *Common Sense*, do you ? No one with any brains does, but South America, including Brazil, has been giving the US and its 'corporate citizens' the middle finger of late, esp when the people make it very clear to the pols that they're sick of the way things have been going these past few decades under the dictates of their relationship with Western institutions like the IMF and World Bank (if you call *pimping* an economic relationship). > I mean, after all the c**p that's been flowing ? And, most of the world > is not Brazil Brazil is one of the world's fastest growing economies. Where they go in terms of F/OSS or Microshaft is of great concern. Between Brazil and China, MS stands to lose access to billions of dollars in revenue, hence their intense interest in these regions, and that goes for a lot of other grifters, er, I mean corporations and their government lackeys. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:34:43 up 88 days, 19:45, 7 users, load average: 0.13, 0.08, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 20 23:42:23 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 19:42:23 -0400 Subject: ms pulling the wool over people's eyes again In-Reply-To: References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050520234223.GA32339@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 10:35:59AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote > Actually, I think this is Microsoft *finally* listening to the > Windows 95/98 users that they abandoned over the last few years. That's what they want you to think. This is a lock-in move. "Eiger" is actually worse than "3rd-World Windows", which at least allows you to run Windows programs of your choice, even if only 3 at a time. Read article http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5705456.html and notice a couple of juicy quotes... "Code-named Eiger, the product is basically designed to turn older PCs into a thin client, which is a terminal that gets most of its information from a central server." "Microsoft won't guarantee that it will run most of the hundreds of thousands of Windows programs. The company won't even promise support for Office, perhaps the most ubiquitous of Windows programs. Office and other business software will be able to be run off a server and viewed on Eiger-based PCs using Microsoft's remote desktop software or thin client software from Citrix and others." So if you're running an office full of older PCs, the Eiger strategy will require you to... - purchase Windows 2003 Server edition, ka-ching - which has heavier hardware requirements than even XP Pro so you'll have to buy a heavy-duty Windows server machine, ka-ching, ka-ching - you'll need to purchase multi-user-licensed versions of the software you want to run, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching - each of your client PC's will require the purchase of an "Eiger" client, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching - and if you want to have several Eiger clients accessing the server simultaneously, you'll have to buy CALs (Client Access Licences) to allow the server to talk to all the clients, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 00:03:35 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:03:35 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again In-Reply-To: <20050520091904.3d2311b9.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <20050520091904.3d2311b9.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050521000335.GB32339@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 09:19:04AM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote > I'm still looking for a good distro to recommend for that purpose - > has anyone had good experiences with one in particular I'd say go with Debian for new users. It's not bleeding edge, but it'll let you surf, email, listen to music, yada, yada, yada. One thing that people often miss is that "a lightweight linux" can be achieved in virtually every distro. Here's the scoop... replace KDE/GNOME *DESKTOP* with Blackbox WM and fbpanel. The following is a *VERY* important distinction which must be understood to do things right... GNOME and KDE have quite a few very good apps (e.g. AbiWord, Gimp, Gnumeric, and their KDE Office equivalants). GNOME and KDE are better known for their "desktop environments". Unfortunately, the people behind GNOME and KDE seem to be going out of their way to match Windows fat, bloated, eye-candy, desktops with GNOME and KDE fat, bloated, eye-candy, desktops. I'll let you in on a secret. If you *INSTALL* GNOME and KDE *DESKTOPS*, but *RUN* Blackbox (or some other lightweight WM), you can still run all those GNOME and KDE *APPLICATIONS* on an older PC. My 450mhz Dell, PIII, with 128 megs of RAM, from September 1999 is still going strong. Outside of streaming video ("internet TV") it's easily powerful enough to do almost everything I want. And it's quite snappy. I have tried KDE and it's painfull watching the icons populate as KDE come up. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 00:20:05 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:20:05 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050516222454.78120.qmail-0nAJQWU4XIGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran wrote > I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to > do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, > the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. On a tangent to your post, how does one go about doing that? I've got a few computer-related things I want to spout off about, and a blog or wiki might be the way to go. Is there a fundamental difference between blogs and wikis, or are they just different brand names? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 00:28:25 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:28:25 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050521002005.GC32339-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <428E80A9.1040006@geek-girls.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: >On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran wrote > > >>I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to >>do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, >>the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. >> >> > > On a tangent to your post, how does one go about doing that? I've got >a few computer-related things I want to spout off about, and a blog or >wiki might be the way to go. Is there a fundamental difference between >blogs and wikis, or are they just different brand names? > > A wiki is fundamentally a user-editable webpage. A blog is a webpage updated in chronological format. Contrast http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeVisitors with http://wilwheaton.net/ -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 00:30:04 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:30:04 -0400 Subject: ms pulling the wool over people's eyes again References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050520234223.GA32339@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <001a01c55d9c$4d7ee3d0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> >... > "Code-named Eiger, the product is basically designed to turn older PCs > into a thin client, which is a terminal that gets most of its > information from a central server." > > "Microsoft won't guarantee that it will run most of the hundreds of > thousands of Windows programs. The company won't even promise support > for Office, perhaps the most ubiquitous of Windows programs. Office and > other business software will be able to be run off a server and viewed > on Eiger-based PCs using Microsoft's remote desktop software or thin > client software from Citrix and others." > > So if you're running an office full of older PCs, the Eiger strategy > will require you to... > - purchase Windows 2003 Server edition, ka-ching > - which has heavier hardware requirements than even XP Pro so you'll > have to buy a heavy-duty Windows server machine, ka-ching, ka-ching > - you'll need to purchase multi-user-licensed versions of the software > you want to run, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching > - each of your client PC's will require the purchase of an "Eiger" > client, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching > - and if you want to have several Eiger clients accessing the server > simultaneously, you'll have to buy CALs (Client Access Licences) to > allow the server to talk to all the clients, ka-ching, ka-ching, > ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching > > -- > Walter Dnes Right on! And, of course, Win Server has to be upgraded every 2-3 years, and each new release needs a bigger more expensive machine to support it. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 00:54:57 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:54:57 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050521002005.GC32339-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:20:05 -0400 Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran wrote > > I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to > > do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, > > the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. > > On a tangent to your post, how does one go about doing that? I've got > a few computer-related things I want to spout off about, and a blog or > wiki might be the way to go. Is there a fundamental difference between > blogs and wikis, or are they just different brand names? No, they're different, but they overlap a lot. A wiki just has pages and the tools to create, edit and admin them. A lot of them use regular files, some use databases to hold the text, but basically it's a collection of pages, any structure you have to create yourself. A blog is far more complicated with lots and lots of specialized tools and data structures to take care of articles, users, RSS feeds, ads/banners etc. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 01:16:44 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 21:16:44 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050520211644.43b60c55.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:54:57 -0400 Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:20:05 -0400 > Walter Dnes wrote: > > > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran wrote > > > I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to > > > do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, > > > the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. > > > > On a tangent to your post, how does one go about doing that? I've got > > a few computer-related things I want to spout off about, and a blog or > > wiki might be the way to go. Is there a fundamental difference between > > blogs and wikis, or are they just different brand names? Of course, I forgot the main difference - blogs are used more for publishing, as one or a small group putting out most of the content, where wikis are used for collaboration and/or collecting and storing information from a larger group. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 01:21:26 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 21:21:26 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <428E8D16.4000406@istop.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:20:05 -0400 > Walter Dnes wrote: > > >>On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran wrote >> >>>I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had nothing better to >>>do this weekend and I launched OpenSourceCanada.com (another wiki, >>>the GTALUG looks great!) So yes, another empty web. >> >> On a tangent to your post, how does one go about doing that? I've got >>a few computer-related things I want to spout off about, and a blog or >>wiki might be the way to go. Is there a fundamental difference between >>blogs and wikis, or are they just different brand names? > > > No, they're different, but they overlap a lot. A wiki just has > pages and the tools to create, edit and admin them. A lot of them use regular files, > some use databases to hold the text, but basically it's a collection of pages, > any structure you have to create yourself. A blog is far more complicated with lots and > lots of specialized tools and data structures to take care of articles, users, RSS feeds, > ads/banners etc. Rather not. Both, wiki and blogs can be either very easy or simple, for admin and user, I would say. I would rather believe that wikis might be more complex, since they are about giving user the control over their web pages. While blogs are mostly about giving the control over texts authors post from time to time. No, it doesnt go that way. Some wikis are simpler than some blogs. Some blogs are simpler that some wikis ;) Depands how all that was programmed and for what. I am a web developer, confused at the same time as well. I am also a server administrator. I have my own approach to this: if I can easiely dispatch a program for others, i.e. install it on the server, the program is good for me. Neither wikis nor blogs are really good. They are a bit too complex both for me and for ordinary users to manage them. Of course I could spend a few hours on installing a new toy on the server. If however nobody pays me for that why should I bother? I would prefer rather to develop my own applications, according to needs of clients. I am sorry, in this case Open Source software does not help me much. In short, both are yet in their childhood age. zb. > > Rob > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 01:33:25 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 21:33:25 -0400 Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: <20050520211644.43b60c55.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050516222454.78120.qmail@web60113.mail.yahoo.com> <20050521002005.GC32339@waltdnes.org> <20050520205457.2ec93cb1.rob@cheapersafer.com> <20050520211644.43b60c55.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <428E8FE5.1020605@sympatico.ca> Rob Sutherland wrote: > > Of course, I forgot the main difference - blogs are used more for publishing, > as one or a small group putting out most of the content, where wikis are used for > collaboration and/or collecting and storing information from a larger group. While that's mostly true, a good blog should allow user comments, which sometimes turn into discussion. With wikis, anyone can create and edit content -- like the helpful visitor from polymtl.ca who hosed the Toronto Perl Mongers' wiki last year. Setting up a blog is easy. I use WordPress ; written in PHP, talks to a MySQL backend (though I think it may be able to do pg and sqlite now). While I've had the install time for a wiki under two minutes, a blog generally requires a little more setup, but is very easy to maintain. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 05:31:54 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 01:31:54 -0400 Subject: Any Bash features you'd like to see? In-Reply-To: References: <20050511060006.GA1953@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050513201953.GA3468@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516051115.GA19305@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050516232820.GA5835@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050521053154.GA6399@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 05:38:57PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > For navigating through past commands and the current commandline, I'm > quite a fan of: > set -o vi > > I've started to get out of the habit of using the arrow keys... ;) Funny you mention vi-mode... this is what I have in ~/.inputrc: set visible-stats on set editing-mode vi set keymap vi-insert C-b: backward-kill-word C-d: kill-word C-f: unix-filename-rubout C-p: history-search-backward C-n: history-search-forward C-]: dynamic-complete-history Try them, you'll like it. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 07:39:58 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 10:39:58 +0300 (IDT) Subject: ms pulling the wool over people's eyes again In-Reply-To: <20050520234223.GA32339-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <50766.206.186.8.130.1116597666.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050520234223.GA32339@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > So if you're running an office full of older PCs, the Eiger strategy > will require you to... > - purchase Windows 2003 Server edition, ka-ching > - which has heavier hardware requirements than even XP Pro so you'll > have to buy a heavy-duty Windows server machine, ka-ching, ka-ching > - you'll need to purchase multi-user-licensed versions of the software > you want to run, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching > - each of your client PC's will require the purchase of an "Eiger" > client, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching > - and if you want to have several Eiger clients accessing the server > simultaneously, you'll have to buy CALs (Client Access Licences) to > allow the server to talk to all the clients, ka-ching, ka-ching, > ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching That explains it in not so many words. Thanks. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 13:13:05 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 09:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050521131305.32580.qmail@web60112.mail.yahoo.com> --- Walter DnDneswawaltdnesawaltdnesrorgwrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran > wrote > > I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had > nothing better to > > do this weekend and I launched > OpOpenSourceCanadaom (another wiwiki > > the GTGTALUGooks great!) So yes, another empty > web. > > On a tangent to your post, how does one go about > doing that? I've got > a few computer-related things I want to spout off > about, what you want is probably a blblogan easy way to publish your stuff. They are most suitable for writing short content and updating it frequently; the presentation is chronological. They have more features but you don't have to use them. and a blblogr > wiwikiight be the way to go. Is there a fundamental > difference between > blblogsnd wiwikisor are they just different brand > names? > Like they said, in a wiwikianyone" can edit and change the contents of the pages, so it's more suitable for collaborative projects like wiwikipediahthttp/en.wiwikipediarorgiwikiain_Page BlBlogsnd wiwikisan be considered specialized forms of onon-lineublishing or "Content Management Systems" (CMCMS You can test-drive different CMCMSnd see other types at: hthttp/wwwwwpopensourcecmsom/ Fernando > -- > Walter DnDneswawaltdnesawaltdnesrorg > An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on > keyboards will > eventually produce a report showing that Windows is > more secure, > and has a lower TCTCOthan lilinux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > hthttp/tltlugsssrorg> TLTLUGequests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNUNSUBSCRIBE > hthttp/tltlugsssrorgubscribe.shshtml> ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 13:20:26 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 09:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you start a blog/wiki? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050521132026.37795.qmail@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> I don't know how I managed to screw the message text, anyways, the link was: http://www.opensourcecms.com/ --- "F. Duran" wrote: > --- Walter DnDneswawaltdnesawaltdnesrorgwrote: > > On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 06:24:54PM -0400, F. Duran > > wrote > > > I don't know if it will be any useful, but I had > > nothing better to > > > do this weekend and I launched > > OpOpenSourceCanadaom (another wiwiki > > > the GTGTALUGooks great!) So yes, another empty > > web. > > > > On a tangent to your post, how does one go about > > doing that? I've got > > a few computer-related things I want to spout off > > about, > > what you want is probably a blblogan easy way to > publish your stuff. They are most suitable for > writing > short content and updating it frequently; the > presentation is chronological. They have more > features > but you don't have to use them. > > and a blblogr > > wiwikiight be the way to go. Is there a > fundamental > > difference between > > blblogsnd wiwikisor are they just different brand > > names? > > > > Like they said, in a wiwikianyone" can edit and > change > the contents of the pages, so it's more suitable for > collaborative projects like > wiwikipediahthttp/en.wiwikipediarorgiwikiain_Page > > BlBlogsnd wiwikisan be considered specialized forms > of > onon-lineublishing or "Content Management Systems" > (CMCMS > > You can test-drive different CMCMSnd see other types > at: hthttp/wwwwwpopensourcecmsom/ > > Fernando > > > -- > > Walter DnDneswawaltdnesawaltdnesrorg > > An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on > > keyboards will > > eventually produce a report showing that Windows > is > > more secure, > > and has a lower TCTCOthan lilinux > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > hthttp/tltlugsssrorg> TLTLUGequests: Linux topics, > No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNUNSUBSCRIBE > > hthttp/tltlugsssrorgubscribe.shshtml> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 15:55:05 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 11:55:05 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> <20050520184407.13948ced.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <009d01c55e1d$74cbc120$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "JoeHill" on Friday, May 20, 2005 6:44 PM wrote: > On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:44:14 +0300 (IDT) > Peter disseminated the following: > > > You don't expect the powers that be to show any *Common Sense*, do you ? > > No one with any brains does, but South America, including Brazil, has been > giving the US and its 'corporate citizens' the middle finger of late, esp when > the people make it very clear to the pols that they're sick of the way things > have been going these past few decades under the dictates of their relationship > with Western institutions like the IMF and World Bank (if you call *pimping* an > economic relationship). > > > I mean, after all the c**p that's been flowing ? And, most of the world > > is not Brazil > > Brazil is one of the world's fastest growing economies. Where they go in terms > of F/OSS or Microshaft is of great concern. > > Between Brazil and China, MS stands to lose access to billions of dollars in > revenue, hence their intense interest in these regions, and that goes for a lot > of other grifters, er, I mean corporations and their government lackeys. Well, at the Linux World Canada Show an IBM rep. noted (as part of keynote speech) that IBM is focused on the BRICK nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and (South) Korea). Point being, limited amount of old (computer) infrastructure, fast growing economies, all ripe for Linux :-) . So, that means we are talking the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 24th largest populations... Not too shabby :-) . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 15:59:13 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 11:59:13 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428F5AD1.1040002@sympatico.ca> Henry Spencer wrote: > > Please post at least a summary. Okay, if you're looking for a small (63.5 x 273 x 295 mm -- a little bigger than a ream of paper), silent computer that doesn't draw much power, this is very similar to the parts I have now: * motherboard: Via EPIA 800; 800MHz Via C3 processor integral to the board. I wouldn't necessary recommend this mobo, as the Trident Cyberblade graphics only support basic X functions. A better board might be the EPIA MS 10000E, as it appears to have supported graphics (Via Unichrome), and better interfaces. The EPIA MS 10000E is about $250, the EPIA 800 about $110. While you can get mini-ITX boards that take Intel/AMD processors, they are very expensive, and have the same power consumption as a desktop. * RAM: The EPIA 800 takes annoyingly expensive PC133 low-profile units (aka Mac G4 700/800MHz RAM). Cheapest I've seen this was $101 for a 512MB stick. Later boards use slightly more commodity memory. * CPU cooler: Zalman NB47J passive north bridge cooler (about $10). Replaces EPIA 800 CPU fan. * case: Morex Cubid 2699R, comes with external DC 12V 54W fanless power brick -- about $100. * hard disk: 60GB laptop hard drive (appx $120), plus 3.5" - 2.5" adaptor (about $10). * CD/DVD drive: mini-ITX cases take very expensive slim drives meant for laptops. A DVD+/-RW dual layer unit is anything from $160 up. I was given the EPIA 800 mainboard and the case. As I have it configured now, it would make a small, well-behaved desktop machine for those who don't need DVD playback. I guess that it would use 1/3 to 1/4 the power of a desktop machine, maybe saving you $100 or more in a year in power usage if you kept it on all the time. Suppliers are a bit rare. Most of College St hasn't heard of mini-ITX, though Sonnam will order it for you. KOOnline sells through ebay from Markham, ncix.com do mail order, and if you have a trade account, Eprom.com in Markham carry mini-ITX. HTH, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 21:27:49 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 17:27:49 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> <20050520184407.13948ced.joehill@sympatico.ca> <009d01c55e1d$74cbc120$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <000901c55e4c$0282f730$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> > Colin McGregor wrote: > > Well, at the Linux World Canada Show an IBM rep. noted (as part of keynote > speech) that IBM is focused on the BRICK nations (Brazil, Russia, India, > China, and (South) Korea). Point being, limited amount of old (computer) > infrastructure, fast growing economies, all ripe for Linux :-) . So, that > means we are talking the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 24th largest populations... > Not too shabby :-) . Not much money to make on the software but HUGE market for hardware, even with smal profit margin the potential is immense. Funnily enough, IBM has pulled out of the PC market! I suppose they count on their Power technology for servers with Linux. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 22:11:45 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 15:11:45 -0700 Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: References: <20050520000706.84720.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or, if you are really desperate: grep -ri redhat * grep -ri suse grep -ri debian .... On 5/19/05, Peter wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Anthony Alex wrote: > >> BTW, thanks to all for their ideas/suggestions. > >> Yes, i understand this part. Perhaps my question was > >> not clear - I am indirectly working on a distro which > >> was, I believe hardened for firewall purpose. From my > >> little experience this system, I cannot tell what > >> distro it is ? Is there a way to dig this out ? I'm > >> just curious. > >> uname -a, dmesg did not show anything specific.... > >> TIA, > > > > cat /etc/*release* > > missing on many distributions. cat /etc/motd could be a better choice > ;-( > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 21 23:30:56 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 19:30:56 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> <20050520184407.13948ced.joehill@sympatico.ca> <009d01c55e1d$74cbc120$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <000901c55e4c$0282f730$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <001e01c55e5d$23694c40$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Francois Ouellette" on Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:27 PM wrote: > > Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > Well, at the Linux World Canada Show an IBM rep. noted (as part of keynote > > speech) that IBM is focused on the BRICK nations (Brazil, Russia, India, > > China, and (South) Korea). Point being, limited amount of old (computer) > > infrastructure, fast growing economies, all ripe for Linux :-) . So, that > > means we are talking the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 24th largest > populations... > > Not too shabby :-) . > > Not much money to make on the software but HUGE market for hardware, even > with smal profit margin the potential is immense. There are two other areas IBM is good at, consulting services and education. Want to get 5,000 computers, in 50 locations, in 7 nations to talk to each other in a VPN, well IBM would be one of the best picks to make that work. Want to train the people who will be using those 5,000 computers, again IBM would be an excellent pick. > Funnily enough, IBM has pulled out of the PC market! I suppose they count on > their Power technology for servers with Linux. IBM's departure from the PC market isn't very surprising, when you think about it. PCs have become a commodity item, I mean how much of a premium are you willing to pay for the IBM logo on the front of the case vs. a comparable "white box" clone or a Dell? I would not pay anything extra, and these days most folks would not pay much. So, this means that IBM must descend into the same cut-throat high volume/paper thin margins area of the white box clones and the Dell Computers. IBM has never done well in that sort of area. So, the server market, consulting services, education and licences of IBM patents are all real money makers for IBM. Also, keep in mind that be leaving the PC market IBM avoids the one area where Microsoft can @#$% IBM badly (i.e. Microsoft can no longer use Windows as a club to limit IBM getting into the Linux market...). In other words at the moment it looks like IBM made a wise choice leaving the PC market. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 22 02:06:32 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 22:06:32 -0400 Subject: ms on the offensive again References: <1116597929.9294.13.camel@localhost> <20050520184407.13948ced.joehill@sympatico.ca> <009d01c55e1d$74cbc120$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <000901c55e4c$0282f730$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <001e01c55e5d$23694c40$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <000a01c55e72$f1cb4380$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> > From: "Colin McGregor" > <...> > So, the server market, consulting services, education and licences of IBM > patents are all real money makers for IBM. Also, keep in mind that be > leaving the PC market IBM avoids the one area where Microsoft can @#$% IBM > badly (i.e. Microsoft can no longer use Windows as a club to limit IBM > getting into the Linux market...). In other words at the moment it looks > like IBM made a wise choice leaving the PC market. > > Colin McGregor Very informed comment you make here! It looks like the Big Blue knows what it's doing... Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 22 18:12:20 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 13:12:20 -0500 Subject: Wacky wiki issues Message-ID: Just so everyone knows, the wiki is being temporarily juggled on Leah's hardware while the setup awaits physical and data repairs. Until things are sorted out, it's likely that you see some database errors, particularly when editing a page. I've been able to go back in history and re-save a page to get it posted properly. All this wierdness will be solved shortly.. hang tight! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 22 23:05:39 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:05:39 -0400 Subject: Changing cursor in HTML