From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 00:07:26 2005
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:07:26 -0500
Subject: Graphical sftp
In-Reply-To: <42233899.2070703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42233899.2070703@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200502281907.27081.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On February 28, 2005 10:28 am, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> Can anyone recomend a good sftp client for FC3?
>
> gtfp keeps crashing(disapearing) on me.

In konqueror you can use URLs fish://server/ or sftp://server/ for graphical 
file access with ssh.  The second URL type would be using sftp, I would guess 
that the first uses scp.  Konqueror let's you split the main window into 
multiple frames so you can configure whatever combination of local and remote 
filesystems that you like.  With a properly configured ssh and ssh-agent you 
won't even have to enter passwords.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 03:38:39 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:38:39 -0500
Subject: TLUG Member Offer.
Message-ID: <001701c51e10$28bfdde0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

19" or 20" Monitors for only $20 to T.L.U.G. Members

G.T.C.C. is looking to get rid of a large bunch of used working
Hewlett-Packard 19" and 20" CRT monitors, and is willing to sell them off
for dirt cheap to T.L.U.G. members (and if you are on the T.L.U.G. mailing
list consider yourself a member). So here is the deal, bring a printed copy
of this e-mail down to G.T.C.C. at 169 Eastern Avenue on Saturday, March
12th, between 10 AM and 3 PM along with $20 (plus GST/PST) for each monitor
you want and take them away. The monitors will be offered on a first-come
first-serve basis, and while there will be a test bench were you can
connect/test the monitors before purchase all sales will be final.

Do keep in mind that these monitors are big and HEAVY, so you will need a
vehicle (car, truck, van, etc.) to get the monitor(s) home. Or alternaively
for $30 G.T.C.C. will deliver up to 6 monitors any one address in the City
of Toronto.

 Colin McGregor

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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 06:31:56 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 01:31:56 -0500
Subject: TLUG Member Offer.
References: <001701c51e10$28bfdde0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03BDB32988C6CD4E745D13B2590@cez.ice>

Aperture grille? Specs?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin McGregor" <colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Member Offer.


> 19" or 20" Monitors for only $20 to T.L.U.G. Members
>
> G.T.C.C. is looking to get rid of a large bunch of used working
> Hewlett-Packard 19" and 20" CRT monitors, and is willing to sell them off
> for dirt cheap to T.L.U.G. members (and if you are on the T.L.U.G. mailing
> list consider yourself a member). So here is the deal, bring a printed 
> copy
> of this e-mail down to G.T.C.C. at 169 Eastern Avenue on Saturday, March
> 12th, between 10 AM and 3 PM along with $20 (plus GST/PST) for each 
> monitor
> you want and take them away. The monitors will be offered on a first-come
> first-serve basis, and while there will be a test bench were you can
> connect/test the monitors before purchase all sales will be final.
>
> Do keep in mind that these monitors are big and HEAVY, so you will need a
> vehicle (car, truck, van, etc.) to get the monitor(s) home. Or 
> alternaively
> for $30 G.T.C.C. will deliver up to 6 monitors any one address in the City
> of Toronto.
>
> Colin McGregor
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 15:59:27 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:59:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sad day for mac-philes
Message-ID: <50963.207.188.65.4.1109692767.squirrel@207.188.65.4>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "Filippo A. Salustri" <salustri-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
Subject: A sad day for Mac-philes
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:41:47 -0500
Size: 3900
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20050301/e70dcf3e/attachment.mht>

From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 16:13:47 2005
From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:13:47 -0500
Subject: Sad day for mac-philes
In-Reply-To: <50963.207.188.65.4.1109692767.squirrel-rtaPJBCZcNxnuH+X+ILfhQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <50963.207.188.65.4.1109692767.squirrel@207.188.65.4>
Message-ID: <E435EC28-8A6C-11D9-80EF-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca>

On Mar 1, 2005, at 10:59 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote:

> our interview with him for Ubiquity is archived at 
> <>http://www.acm.org/ubiquity/j_raskin/_2.html>

I believe that should be 
<http://www.acm.org/ubiquity/interviews/j_raskin_2.html>.

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 19:41:30 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:41:30 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
Message-ID: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca>

I bought a stick of 256MB SDRAM ( gbMicro PC133, 32X8) and my PCs only 
recognize 128MB. I have tried 3 different sticks from the same store, 
installed each on 3 different PCs, and in all cases only half the ram 
was seen by the bios.

A google search found people talking about the problem, but no solutions 
found.

Notes:
- MBs: 2 asus p5a (amd k6-2); 1 soyo sy-5ema (amd k6-2) .
- 100MHz bus
- manuals for each MB indicate that a 256MB stick is allowed.
- I have a 256mb pc133 stick on 2 computers.
- tried new ram by itself and also in combination with existing ram
- tried all different dimm slots.
- replaced stick twice - am on my 3rd try.
- the 1st two sticks had 2 long chips on each side, the 3rd stick had 8 
chips on one side only but all were labeled the same.

I was going to return the last stick and give it up with that type of 
ram, but was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of the solution might be.
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 19:53:52 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:53:52 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <4224C56A.4000302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050301195352.GA2903@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 02:41:30PM -0500, John M. Moniz wrote:
> I bought a stick of 256MB SDRAM ( gbMicro PC133, 32X8) and my PCs only 
> recognize 128MB. I have tried 3 different sticks from the same store, 
> installed each on 3 different PCs, and in all cases only half the ram 
> was seen by the bios.

Could it be that BIOS is telling you the truth?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because I can type.
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 20:09:42 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 15:09:42 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <20050301195352.GA2903-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301195352.GA2903@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4224CC06.3080506@sympatico.ca>

William Park wrote:

>On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 02:41:30PM -0500, John M. Moniz wrote:
>  
>
>>I bought a stick of 256MB SDRAM ( gbMicro PC133, 32X8) and my PCs only 
>>recognize 128MB. I have tried 3 different sticks from the same store, 
>>installed each on 3 different PCs, and in all cases only half the ram 
>>was seen by the bios.
>>    
>>
>
>Could it be that BIOS is telling you the truth?
>
>  
>
It could be, although I would have expected more from Staples.
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 20:19:04 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 15:19:04 -0500
Subject: O.T. not all ram seen
Message-ID: <4224CE38.2000304@sympatico.ca>

You might try appending the amount of installed ram at the LILO or grub
boot  screen. There's a 'how to' on this page about 1/2 way down.

http://linux.about.com/library/bl/dist/redhat/bldist_redhat_d4.htm

John

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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 20:24:25 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:24:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <4224C56A.4000302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011510130.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, John M. Moniz wrote:

> I bought a stick of 256MB SDRAM ( gbMicro PC133, 32X8) and my PCs only 
> recognize 128MB. I have tried 3 different sticks from the same store, 
> installed each on 3 different PCs, and in all cases only half the ram 
> was seen by the bios.

I've heard of this type of problem.  In the cases I've heard of I believe 
it was h/w related (essentially the way the ram is designed vs the way the 
board sees it).  Hopefully this is not the case.

In the hopes it is a bios bug or a ram size detection problem you can tell 
the kernel to believe it has a certain amount of ram regardless of what it 
detected.

Pass mem=256M to the kernel.  If you don't have 256MB or more memory 
actually installed the box will crash eventually when doing this.  So pass 
this parameter then run a job which gobbles memory.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 20:33:47 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:33:47 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <4224C56A.4000302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 02:41:30PM -0500, John M. Moniz wrote:
> I bought a stick of 256MB SDRAM ( gbMicro PC133, 32X8) and my PCs only 
> recognize 128MB. I have tried 3 different sticks from the same store, 
> installed each on 3 different PCs, and in all cases only half the ram 
> was seen by the bios.
> 
> A google search found people talking about the problem, but no solutions 
> found.
> 
> Notes:
> - MBs: 2 asus p5a (amd k6-2); 1 soyo sy-5ema (amd k6-2) .
> - 100MHz bus
> - manuals for each MB indicate that a 256MB stick is allowed.
> - I have a 256mb pc133 stick on 2 computers.
> - tried new ram by itself and also in combination with existing ram
> - tried all different dimm slots.
> - replaced stick twice - am on my 3rd try.
> - the 1st two sticks had 2 long chips on each side, the 3rd stick had 8 
> chips on one side only but all were labeled the same.
> 
> I was going to return the last stick and give it up with that type of 
> ram, but was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of the solution might be.

Many older boards are limited in what density of ram they can use and
require 16chip modules for 256M sticks (aka double sided sticks).  Newer
chipsets support higher density chips and hence can use 8chip modules
(single sided, and most common 256M variety today).

A P5A is likely in that situation, given most 440LX (P2 chipset) boards
have that limitation and the P5A is about the same age.

According to www.crucial.com, the P5A can use up to 384MB EDO or 768MB
SDRAM.  Ram can be 66, 100 or 133MHz, and it can use 128MB (16Meg x 64)
or 256MB (32Meg x 64) memory.  They unfortunately don't make it clear if
the memory they guarantee will work with the P5A is single or double
sided.

Lennart Sorensen
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From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:12:43 2005
From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:12:43 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <20050301203347.GR31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca>
	 <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com>

I had the exact same problem with my P5A-B board (K6-2 500MHz) and a
256Mb PC100 "single-sided" stick of SDRAM.  It would only see 128Mb. 
I ended up replacing it with an older "double-sided" stick.

pm
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:17:10 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:17:10 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:12:43PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote:
> I had the exact same problem with my P5A-B board (K6-2 500MHz) and a
> 256Mb PC100 "single-sided" stick of SDRAM.  It would only see 128Mb. 
> I ended up replacing it with an older "double-sided" stick.

www.logiccomputerhouse.com does list both 256MB single sided and double
sided.  $60 for single sided and $80 for double sided, so they are still
possible to buy.

Lennart Sorensen
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:31:08 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 16:31:08 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <20050301211710.GS31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com> <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4224DF1C.4040906@sympatico.ca>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:12:43PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote:
>  
>
>>I had the exact same problem with my P5A-B board (K6-2 500MHz) and a
>>256Mb PC100 "single-sided" stick of SDRAM.  It would only see 128Mb. 
>>I ended up replacing it with an older "double-sided" stick.
>>    
>>
>
>www.logiccomputerhouse.com does list both 256MB single sided and double
>sided.  $60 for single sided and $80 for double sided, so they are still
>possible to buy.
>
>Lennart Sorensen
>
Thanks, it looks like my efforts to get a cheap deal didn't pay off. 
Staples is (was?) having a sale on the 256MB sdram sticks for $50 (after 
mail in rebate). That's the cheapest I have seen.

John.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:38:43 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:38:43 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <4224DF1C.4040906-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com> <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4224DF1C.4040906@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050301213843.GT31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:31:08PM -0500, John M. Moniz wrote:
> Thanks, it looks like my efforts to get a cheap deal didn't pay off. 
> Staples is (was?) having a sale on the 256MB sdram sticks for $50 (after 
> mail in rebate). That's the cheapest I have seen.

Unless they have double sided PC133 dimms, they won't do you any good on
a P5A it would seem.  Unless you can find someone that for some reason
has double sided in a system that doesn't need it and is willing to
trade.  Unfortunately double sided 256M were never very common since at
the time they would have been required, most people didn't have that
much ram and 128M were much better price/MB than 256M.  Once higher
density chips came out and boards started supporting them, people made
single sided 256M since they require only half the number of components
and are hence cheaper to make and hence sell for less.  Most people
buying a computer at a time where 256M or 512M made sense were using
systems that could use single sided 256M or double sided 512M.  Anything
that takes bigger memory than that is usually DDR, or a server with
buffered ECC ram where different chip and density rules apply.

Lennart Sorensen
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:39:56 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:39:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <4224DF1C.4040906-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com> <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <4224DF1C.4040906@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011637130.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, John M. Moniz wrote:

> Thanks, it looks like my efforts to get a cheap deal didn't pay off. Staples
> is (was?) having a sale on the 256MB sdram sticks for $50 (after mail in
> rebate). That's the cheapest I have seen.

IIRC R.O.T computers (College & Spadina) sells single sided PC133 DIMMs 
for $59 or so.  I've purchased a few there and I'm sure that was the 
price.  Disclaimer: This is from memory, and was a little while back.

This was the cheapest price I found "doing the rounds" in Computer Row a 
couple of times and doesn't imvolve a cash back :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 21:52:29 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:52:29 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
Message-ID: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
cleanly?

The reason that this has come up is that I have had a few reboots in the
past couple of months - always when I am not at home.  The only thing in
/var/log/messages is this:

Mar  1 14:41:56 hostname -- MARK -- 

# these happen every twenty minutes, like clockwork ;-) until I get a
# message like this:

Mar  1 14:59:09 hostname syslogd 1.4.1#16: restart.

And then there are all the ramblings of a reboot.  The first I hear
about it is if I was logged on via ssh and my terminal hangs, or I
see the emails from cron about being unable to open the display ('cause
X doesn't run by default).

Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.
-- 

yours,

William

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:01:58 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:01:58 -0500
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011637130.30424-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com> <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4224DF1C.4040906@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011637130.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050301220158.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:39:56PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote:
> IIRC R.O.T computers (College & Spadina) sells single sided PC133 DIMMs 
> for $59 or so.  I've purchased a few there and I'm sure that was the 
> price.  Disclaimer: This is from memory, and was a little while back.
> 
> This was the cheapest price I found "doing the rounds" in Computer Row a 
> couple of times and doesn't imvolve a cash back :)

$59 sounds likely.  The problem is that an older system requires double
sided (for 256M) which costs more and is harder to find.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:03:04 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:03:04 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301215229.GA2135-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:52:29PM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
> I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
> manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
> fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
> there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
> cleanly?
> 
> The reason that this has come up is that I have had a few reboots in the
> past couple of months - always when I am not at home.  The only thing in
> /var/log/messages is this:
> 
> Mar  1 14:41:56 hostname -- MARK -- 
> 
> # these happen every twenty minutes, like clockwork ;-) until I get a
> # message like this:
> 
> Mar  1 14:59:09 hostname syslogd 1.4.1#16: restart.
> 
> And then there are all the ramblings of a reboot.  The first I hear
> about it is if I was logged on via ssh and my terminal hangs, or I
> see the emails from cron about being unable to open the display ('cause
> X doesn't run by default).
> 
> Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.

if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
	echo "No display";
else
	echo "Do something";
fi

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:03:22 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:03:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301215229.GA2135-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011700290.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:

> I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
> manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
> fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
> there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
> cleanly?

Just get the script to check if you are running under X.  One option is to 
check if the DISPLAY environment variable is set.

zen:~$echo $DISPLAY
avon.opentrend.net:0.0

It is possible to run X without $DISPLAY set but then the script would 
fail to change the root window anyway :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:04:58 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:04:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: RAM Not All Seen
In-Reply-To: <20050301220158.GU31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224C56A.4000302@sympatico.ca> <20050301203347.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <b7a3fe4a05030113123c27b980@mail.gmail.com> <20050301211710.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <4224DF1C.4040906@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011637130.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <20050301220158.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011703340.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:39:56PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > IIRC R.O.T computers (College & Spadina) sells single sided PC133 DIMMs 
> > for $59 or so.  I've purchased a few there and I'm sure that was the 
> > price.  Disclaimer: This is from memory, and was a little while back.
> > 
> > This was the cheapest price I found "doing the rounds" in Computer Row a 
> > couple of times and doesn't imvolve a cash back :)
> 
> $59 sounds likely.  The problem is that an older system requires double
> sided (for 256M) which costs more and is harder to find.

Yeah I noted that in the thread after I posted.  R.O.T had double sided 
for $89 IIRC.  Other places on Computer Row may as well.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:19:01 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:19:01 -0500
Subject: O.T. not all ram seen
In-Reply-To: <4224CE38.2000304-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4224CE38.2000304@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4224EA55.1070909@sympatico.ca>

John McGregor wrote:

> You might try appending the amount of installed ram at the LILO or grub
> boot  screen. There's a 'how to' on this page about 1/2 way down.
>
> http://linux.about.com/library/bl/dist/redhat/bldist_redhat_d4.htm
>
> John

I tried the above method just for curiosity and it still only recognized 
128MB.

Thanks,

John.
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 22:36:31 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:36:31 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301220303.GV31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050301223631.GA2528@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:03:04PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:52:29PM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
> > I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
> > manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
> > fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
> > there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
> > cleanly?
> > 
> > The reason that this has come up is that I have had a few reboots in the
> > past couple of months - always when I am not at home.  The only thing in
> > /var/log/messages is this:
> > 
> > Mar  1 14:41:56 hostname -- MARK -- 
> > 
> > # these happen every twenty minutes, like clockwork ;-) until I get a
> > # message like this:
> > 
> > Mar  1 14:59:09 hostname syslogd 1.4.1#16: restart.
> > 
> > And then there are all the ramblings of a reboot.  The first I hear
> > about it is if I was logged on via ssh and my terminal hangs, or I
> > see the emails from cron about being unable to open the display ('cause
> > X doesn't run by default).
> > 
> > Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
> 	echo "No display";
> else
> 	echo "Do something";
> fi

Hmm...  Checking DISPLAY works if you're in Xterm shell session, say
from ~/.profile.  But, I don't think Cron sees or care about DISPLAY
environment variable.  In fact, Cron by design runs with minimum set of
environment variables.

Try 'ps -C X' or something.

By the way, why would Cron cause reboot of your computer if X is not
running?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because I can type.
--
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  1 23:30:30 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:30:30 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301223631.GA2528-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050301223631.GA2528@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050301233030.GA2487@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:36:31PM -0500, William Park wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:03:04PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:52:29PM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
>> > I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
>> > manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
>> > fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
>> > there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
>> > cleanly?
>> > Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>> 
>> if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
>> 	echo "No display";
>> else
>> 	echo "Do something";
>> fi
>
>Hmm...  Checking DISPLAY works if you're in Xterm shell session, say
>from ~/.profile.  But, I don't think Cron sees or care about DISPLAY
>environment variable.  In fact, Cron by design runs with minimum set of
>environment variables.
>
>Try 'ps -C X' or something.

This is, indeed, the problem - cron runs with a very limited
$ENVIRONMENT.  If not for that I'm sure that it would work.

>By the way, why would Cron cause reboot of your computer if X is not
>running?

I think you misunderstand - I have no idea what causes the reboots, but
I am pretty sure it isn't cron.  X is running when I leave the house,
but after a reboot, it isn't (because I have not run startx).  The fact
that X is not running is the clue that the machine rebooted (I would not
necessarily notice otherwise - I am not a slave to "uptime").
-- 

yours,

William

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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 00:04:22 2005
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:04:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301233030.GA2487-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
 <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050301223631.GA2528@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <20050301233030.GA2487@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503011902190.4485@cruithne.localnet>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:36:31PM -0500, William Park wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:03:04PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:52:29PM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
>>>> I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
>>>> manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
>>>> fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
>>>> there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
>>>> cleanly?
>>>> Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>>> if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
>>> 	echo "No display";
>>> else
>>> 	echo "Do something";
>>> fi
>> Hmm...  Checking DISPLAY works if you're in Xterm shell session, say
>> from ~/.profile.  But, I don't think Cron sees or care about DISPLAY
>> environment variable.  In fact, Cron by design runs with minimum set of
>> environment variables.
>> Try 'ps -C X' or something.
> This is, indeed, the problem - cron runs with a very limited
> $ENVIRONMENT.  If not for that I'm sure that it would work.

You could try something along the lines of:
 	lsof | grep -- '/tmp/\.X11-unix/X0'

But if the real problem is getting useless emails from cron, try 
redirecting the output of your script (stdout and stderr) to /dev/null. 
That should suppress any email notices.

JV
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From ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 00:07:44 2005
From: ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Ryan Sanders)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:07:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Colocation Experiences
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>

Hi Everyone,

I apologize if this is a little bit off-topic, but I am wondering if
anyone here has had some good experiences with any colocation services
downtown?  I am considering a company called "The Wire."  I know they also
do Linux server hosting, so perhaps someone has experience with their
Colo, or Linux hosting solutions.  Or perhaps you know of other good Colo
services?  Basically I am looking for high network and power reliability,
at a fair price.  Perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too?  Any ideas?

-Ryan




------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>
IT Coordinator

ICLEI - World Secretariat
16th Floor, West Tower, City Hall
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON / Canada
M5H 2N2
Ph: +1-416/392/1471
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 00:40:31 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:40:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069-O0WRSH2pS5qh5ncHJhWAXA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Ryan Sanders wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I apologize if this is a little bit off-topic, but I am wondering if
> anyone here has had some good experiences with any colocation services
> downtown?  I am considering a company called "The Wire."  I know they also
> do Linux server hosting, so perhaps someone has experience with their
> Colo, or Linux hosting solutions.  Or perhaps you know of other good Colo
> services?  Basically I am looking for high network and power reliability,
> at a fair price.  Perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too?  Any ideas?

Would TCCP (http://www.tccp.ca) be suitable?

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 01:33:48 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:33:48 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301220303.GV31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050302013348.GB15746@m450>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 05:03:04PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote

> if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
> 	echo "No display";
> else
> 	echo "Do something";
> fi

  That may not work.  $DISPLAY is an environmental variable.  On my
system it gets set in .bashrc and should remain set even if X doesn't
start.  Here's what I would suggest.  Execute...

ps -e

when X is running.  Here are some things that will always show up on
*MY* system when X is running...

 8739 tty10    00:00:00 startx
 8750 tty10    00:00:00 xinit
 8751 ?        00:17:07 X
 8769 tty10    00:00:22 blackbox
 8770 tty10    00:01:26 bbkeys
 8771 tty10    00:00:00 xterm
 8773 tty10    00:05:08 fbpanel

  So I would do something like...

#!/bin/bash
ps_output=`ps -e | grep " xinit"`
if [ ${#ps_output} -gt 2 ]; then
  echo "X is running.  On with the show."
else
  echo "X is not running.  Now what?"
fi

  Replace the "echo" commands with real stuff.  Your system will likely
have a different set of "guaranteed" programs that will be running
whenever X runs.  So be prepared to adjust as necessary.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 01:41:27 2005
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:41:27 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050301215229.GA2135-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200503012041.27721.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On March 1, 2005 04:52 pm, William O'Higgins wrote:

> I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
> manager. ?Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
> fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0. ?Is
> there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
> cleanly?

What window manager do you run?  I suspect many wm have the capability to 
rotate backdrops at set intervals (kde's wm does).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 02:10:19 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:10:19 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <200503012041.27721.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200503012041.27721.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20050302021019.GA2879@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 08:41:27PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote:
>On March 1, 2005 04:52 pm, William O'Higgins wrote:
>
>> I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
>> manager. ?Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
>> fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0. ?Is
>> there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
>> cleanly?
>
>What window manager do you run?  I suspect many wm have the capability to 
>rotate backdrops at set intervals (kde's wm does).

I run OpenBox, and as far as I know they don't build that in, because
there are many "right" ways to do it, and because it is not (as they
(and I)) define it the window manager's job.  KDE is attempting to be
all things to all people, and so that is built in.
-- 

yours,

William

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From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 02:20:47 2005
From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:20:47 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>

This is a question I've been pondering myself lately. TCCP would not
be an option, because in my case it's a commercial venture. I've done
some looking around, and beyond colocation, I've also been looking at
managed hosting services.

These cats in Chicago seem to have a pretty neat setup:

http://www.cihost.com/?zone=products/family_colocation

For $99 US/mth, they'll colo your machine; you can send it to them and
they'll set it up. They'll swap CDs in and out when you want to do an
install. They'll reboot your machine if you like. You hardly need to
be there.

I was also looking at managed hosting, where you don't have to buy the
box. But it's more expensive. On the other hand, Virtual Private
Hosting looks kind of sexy: prices well under $50/mth, and full root
access. You're sharing the same box with other VPH customers, but it
seems to be a secure environment.

What I'd love to know is, I'm not married to the idea of having a colo
service in Toronto, or colo itself. Does anyone here have experience
dealing with VPH or the CI Host service? Or is there a better option?

Thanks,
Aaron.


On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:40:31 -0500 (EST), Robert Brockway
<rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Ryan Sanders wrote:
> 
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I apologize if this is a little bit off-topic, but I am wondering if
> > anyone here has had some good experiences with any colocation services
> > downtown?  I am considering a company called "The Wire."  I know they also
> > do Linux server hosting, so perhaps someone has experience with their
> > Colo, or Linux hosting solutions.  Or perhaps you know of other good Colo
> > services?  Basically I am looking for high network and power reliability,
> > at a fair price.  Perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too?  Any ideas?
> 
> Would TCCP (http://www.tccp.ca) be suitable?
> 
> Rob
> 
> --
> Robert Brockway B.Sc.
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
> Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
> Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 03:25:10 2005
From: dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:25:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0503012223420.2128@david-mayerlens-computer.local>

>
> What I'd love to know is, I'm not married to the idea of having a colo
> service in Toronto, or colo itself. Does anyone here have experience
> dealing with VPH or the CI Host service? Or is there a better option?
>

 Check out the virtual private, dedicated and co-lo options at
http://www.dinix.com

 You may find the virtual private to be sufficient.

=========================================================
| David Mayerlen
| Upstart Associates
| http://www.upstartx.com
| dmz-yBkl/NpmZwtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org
| 416-424-6739
=========================================================
--
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From jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 03:50:35 2005
From: jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Rodito Buan)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:50:35 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069-O0WRSH2pS5qh5ncHJhWAXA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>
Message-ID: <20050302035106.CD5D75FA1@lethe.ss.org>

> someone has experience with their Colo, or Linux 
> hosting solutions.  Or perhaps you know of other good Colo 
> services?  Basically I am looking for high network and power 
> reliability, at a fair price.  Perhaps I can't have my cake 
> and eat it too?  Any ideas?

I have been using 1and1.com for the past two years and its been good so far.
They have a cheap solution which is around $49USD per month (good startup),
500GB per month bandwidth and they provide the hardware for you. Check out
the Root Server I but if your looking for a faster box try the Root Server
III which is $99 USD. The only downside is you have to commit for 6 months.

Jeff

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 13:32:14 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 08:32:14 -0500
Subject: TLUG Member Offer.
References: <001701c51e10$28bfdde0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <BAYC1-PASMTP03BDB32988C6CD4E745D13B2590@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <005801c51f2c$3f08f1a0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Jamon Camisso" <jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:31
AM wrote

> Aperture grille? Specs?

The vast majority of the monitors are HP D1199A monitors, though I have seen
one (just one so far) HP A4033 monitor. So we are talking Sony picture
tubes, and can run at upto 1600 x 1200.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Colin McGregor" <colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 10:38 PM
> Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Member Offer.
>
>
> > 19" or 20" Monitors for only $20 to T.L.U.G. Members
> >
> > G.T.C.C. is looking to get rid of a large bunch of used working
> > Hewlett-Packard 19" and 20" CRT monitors, and is willing to sell them
off
> > for dirt cheap to T.L.U.G. members (and if you are on the T.L.U.G.
mailing
> > list consider yourself a member). So here is the deal, bring a printed
> > copy
> > of this e-mail down to G.T.C.C. at 169 Eastern Avenue on Saturday, March
> > 12th, between 10 AM and 3 PM along with $20 (plus GST/PST) for each
> > monitor
> > you want and take them away. The monitors will be offered on a
first-come
> > first-serve basis, and while there will be a test bench were you can
> > connect/test the monitors before purchase all sales will be final.
> >
> > Do keep in mind that these monitors are big and HEAVY, so you will need
a
> > vehicle (car, truck, van, etc.) to get the monitor(s) home. Or
> > alternaively
> > for $30 G.T.C.C. will deliver up to 6 monitors any one address in the
City
> > of Toronto.
> >
> > Colin McGregor
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 27/02/05
>
>

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 14:38:56 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:38:56 -0500
Subject: TLUG Member Offer.
In-Reply-To: <005801c51f2c$3f08f1a0$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <001701c51e10$28bfdde0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <BAYC1-PASMTP03BDB32988C6CD4E745D13B2590@cez.ice> <005801c51f2c$3f08f1a0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050302143856.GW31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 08:32:14AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote:
> The vast majority of the monitors are HP D1199A monitors, though I have seen
> one (just one so far) HP A4033 monitor. So we are talking Sony picture
> tubes, and can run at upto 1600 x 1200.

For those running X the interesting data is:
D1199A: Resolution: 1600x1200, H-V SyncFrequency: 30-82,50-152
A4033: Resolution: 1280x1024, H-V SyncFrequency: 30-80,50-120

The D1199A can do 1600x1200 at 66Hz max.
The A4033 can do 1280x1024 at 75Hz max.
Both would be best at 1280x1024.

Lennart Sorensen
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From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 15:20:44 2005
From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:20:44 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4225D5BE.5020507-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	<4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4225D5BE.5020507@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050302102044.72201fcc.rob@cheapersafer.com>

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:03:26 -0500
Andrew Hammond <ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Aaron Vegh wrote:
> > This is a question I've been pondering myself lately. TCCP would not
> > be an option, because in my case it's a commercial venture. I've done
> > some looking around, and beyond colocation, I've also been looking at
> > managed hosting services.
> 
> I believe that nightmare and misery are two adjectives I would apply to 
> my experiences with managed hosting services. Having more than one 
> person (or I guess group of people) with root on a box doesn't work.

I've had a pretty good experience with managed hosting with http://www.tummy.com ,
but I agree it can be a recipe for trouble when you have too many cooks. You have
to make sure the roles and responsibilities are very clear. 

Rob 

-- 
Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org
Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com
Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391
--
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From ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 15:17:50 2005
From: ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Ryan Sanders)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:17:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4225D5BE.5020507-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com> <4225D5BE.5020507@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503021012220.2001@pluto.iclei.org>

> For a serious discussion on the subject, you need to say what kind of
> hardware you're looking to host, and how much bandwidth you're going to
> use. You probably also want to mention what you're looking to achieve by
> putting a box in co-lo. You mentioned in other posts
>

What I am looking at is colocating about 12-14 U of Linux servers (1/2)
rack.  Currently we host these servers in-house, but the power in our
facility is proving to be less than adequate, and our network options are
limited.  I am hoping to just relocate these servers in professionally
managed facility at a good price.

I have also looked into http://www.tccp.ca, but I am not sure if they will
meet our needs.

-Ryan



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>
IT Coordinator

ICLEI - World Secretariat
16th Floor, West Tower, City Hall
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON / Canada
M5H 2N2
Ph: +1-416/392/1471
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From allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 15:19:12 2005
From: allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:19:12 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503021012220.2001-O0WRSH2pS5qh5ncHJhWAXA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	<4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4225D5BE.5020507@ca.afilias.info>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0503021012220.2001@pluto.iclei.org>
Message-ID: <20050302101912.78b2ba14@nerdlinger>

They are pricy from what I remember (I looked at using them a few years ago), but their facility and support are top notch: http://www.q9.com/


On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:17:50 -0500 (EST)
Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> > For a serious discussion on the subject, you need to say what kind of
> > hardware you're looking to host, and how much bandwidth you're going to
> > use. You probably also want to mention what you're looking to achieve by
> > putting a box in co-lo. You mentioned in other posts
> >
> 
> What I am looking at is colocating about 12-14 U of Linux servers (1/2)
> rack.  Currently we host these servers in-house, but the power in our
> facility is proving to be less than adequate, and our network options are
> limited.  I am hoping to just relocate these servers in professionally
> managed facility at a good price.
> 
> I have also looked into http://www.tccp.ca, but I am not sure if they will
> meet our needs.
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>
> IT Coordinator
> 
> ICLEI - World Secretariat
> 16th Floor, West Tower, City Hall
> 100 Queen Street West
> Toronto, ON / Canada
> M5H 2N2
> Ph: +1-416/392/1471
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-- 
Vince Fry

The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." 
So I installed LINUX

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 15:36:18 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:36:18 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4225D5BE.5020507-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com> <4225D5BE.5020507@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050302153618.GX31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 10:03:26AM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> I believe that nightmare and misery are two adjectives I would apply to 
> my experiences with managed hosting services. Having more than one 
> person (or I guess group of people) with root on a box doesn't work.
> 
> For straight colo, peer1.net has a pretty good facility at 1 Yonge St. 
> They offer 1/8th rack cabinets, which, I think, are about 6U. Last I 
> checked, their rates were reasonable.

I would assume 5U.  Most racks I have dealt with were 42U total, so 21U
for half, 10U for 1/4, 5U for 1/8.  Some places do have slightly larger
racks so you might get 6U in 1/8, just don't assume you will.

> For a serious discussion on the subject, you need to say what kind of 
> hardware you're looking to host, and how much bandwidth you're going to 
> use. You probably also want to mention what you're looking to achieve by 
> putting a box in co-lo. You mentioned in other posts

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 15:03:26 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:03:26 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4225D5BE.5020507@ca.afilias.info>

Aaron Vegh wrote:
> This is a question I've been pondering myself lately. TCCP would not
> be an option, because in my case it's a commercial venture. I've done
> some looking around, and beyond colocation, I've also been looking at
> managed hosting services.

I believe that nightmare and misery are two adjectives I would apply to 
my experiences with managed hosting services. Having more than one 
person (or I guess group of people) with root on a box doesn't work.

For straight colo, peer1.net has a pretty good facility at 1 Yonge St. 
They offer 1/8th rack cabinets, which, I think, are about 6U. Last I 
checked, their rates were reasonable.

For a serious discussion on the subject, you need to say what kind of 
hardware you're looking to host, and how much bandwidth you're going to 
use. You probably also want to mention what you're looking to achieve by 
putting a box in co-lo. You mentioned in other posts

Drew
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From bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 17:06:01 2005
From: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org (Barnaby Jeans)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:06:01 -0800
Subject: Colocation Experiences
Message-ID: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B048FCD10@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Along the same lines as Q9 is Peer1 who have a facility in downtown
Toronto - http://www.peer1.com 


--
Barnaby Jeans
IT Pro Advisor
Microsoft Canada

phone: 905-363-8395
cell: 416-553-2197
email & messenger: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org
blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/Barnaby_Jeans

_________________________________________________________________
Click to add my contact info to your organizer: 
http://my.infotriever.com/bjeans
 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Vince
Fry
Sent: March 2, 2005 10:19 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Colocation Experiences

They are pricy from what I remember (I looked at using them a few years
ago), but their facility and support are top notch: http://www.q9.com/


On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:17:50 -0500 (EST)
Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> > For a serious discussion on the subject, you need to say what kind 
> > of hardware you're looking to host, and how much bandwidth you're 
> > going to use. You probably also want to mention what you're looking 
> > to achieve by putting a box in co-lo. You mentioned in other posts
> >
> 
> What I am looking at is colocating about 12-14 U of Linux servers 
> (1/2) rack.  Currently we host these servers in-house, but the power 
> in our facility is proving to be less than adequate, and our network 
> options are limited.  I am hoping to just relocate these servers in 
> professionally managed facility at a good price.
> 
> I have also looked into http://www.tccp.ca, but I am not sure if they 
> will meet our needs.
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Sanders <ryan-TmYVyGByI+TYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>
> IT Coordinator
> 
> ICLEI - World Secretariat
> 16th Floor, West Tower, City Hall
> 100 Queen Street West
> Toronto, ON / Canada
> M5H 2N2
> Ph: +1-416/392/1471
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


--
Vince Fry

The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." 
So I installed LINUX

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 21:07:19 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:07:19 -0500
Subject: Any Americans on the list?
Message-ID: <024801c51f6b$d27a0160$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I am on the Dice.com mailing list because I an looking for a better position
(anyone know of anyone looking for a Linux System Administrator / writer,
let me know). The problem with Dice.com is that they do tend to be U.S.
centric, which results in e-mails like the one you see below. If you have a
U.S. mailing address (I don't), and want what sounds like an easy $10 go for
it...

Also, I would be interested in knowing who the "major software manufacturer"
is (hopefully someone other than M****shit :-) ).

Colin McGregor

"SurveyDirect" <survey-h606tYA93WU7PaPn2ozHi1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> on Wednesday, March 02, 2005
12:25 PM wrote:
Subject: IT Manager Survey - Earn Ten Dollars


> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>   You elected to receive this third party message through the
>   PostMasterDirect Service at Dice.com.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> We are conducting a survey of IT Professionals to understand how you feel
about some new software products coming to market.  Your attitudes and
opinions towards these new products will help a major software manufacturer
make the adjustments and change you need them to make.
>
> To thank you for your time, we will give you $10 for completing this
survey! You will be asked a few questions to understand what role you play
in your organization.  You will then be shown new advertisements for these
new products and services, so please be sure to turn your speakers on.  The
entire survey should take approximately 15 minutes.
>
> Before you begin, we have some questions to see if you qualify, and to put
you into the appropriate groups.  Once you fill in these questions, we will
take you to the survey.  You can begin here:
>
> http://dsite.us/y?c=1M7zy-96g.3crK1A.3ke.0&j=1M7zy-96g&e=3crK1A
>
> Thank You
>
> SurveyDirect
> 379 West Broadway
> New York, NY 10012
>
>
> No purchase necessary. Open to respondents that complete the survey and
are residents of the US and 18+ years of age.  One reward per email address
or household.  Please allow up to 8 weeks for delivery. Subject to the
SurveyDirect Reward Program Terms and Conditions
> http://dsite.us/y?c=1M7zy-96g.3crK1A.3ke.1
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you wish to be removed from the PostMasterDirect Service, please go to:
>
http://ntcr.us/u?v=ce451e8a0302!20050302000035010!221816&e=colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> or contact PostMasterDirect, Attn. Customer Service,
> 379 W. Broadway, NY, NY 10012 or call 212-625-1370 x218
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #*|Dice.com|it_professionals|colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org|20050302000035010|2

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From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  2 23:34:44 2005
From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:34:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Colocation Experiences
Message-ID: <200503022334.j22NYiUH038926@localhost.generalconcepts.com>

| What I am looking at is colocating about 12-14 U of Linux servers (1/2)
| rack.  Currently we host these servers in-house, but the power in our
| facility is proving to be less than adequate, and our network options are
| limited.  I am hoping to just relocate these servers in professionally
| managed facility at a good price.

I'm familiar with many/most of the "professional" colos in Toronto,
and you likely can't go wrong with Peer 1 (I've been a happy Peer
1 customer for around 2 years, and have a number of customers there
as well) - they have good facilities at fair prices - they're at 1
Yonge and at 151 Front.

If you're interested, give Brian Mohammed at Peer 1 a call at
416-815-7027 x225 and I'm sure he'll treat you well (and I of course
would be more than happy to sublet you some space as well).

Hope that helps - cheers!

John
jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 01:47:38 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:47:38 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B048FCD10-dXJK5SiL78kMZs6+X9q5QUbaZq+k677m0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A@public.gmane.org>
References: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B048FCD10@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <42266CBA.6020807@istop.com>

Barnaby Jeans wrote:

> --
> IT Pro Advisor
> Microsoft Canada
> 
> email & messenger: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org
> blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/Barnaby_Jeans

Looks like Microsoft's defeatism ;)

zb.

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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 17:28:37 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:28:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
Message-ID: <20050303172837.86279.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,
 
I would like some information on buying a Linux supported wireless G card for my IBM T23 laptop. It supports PCMCIA type II cards. I want something supported under Linux obviously :-) but without requiring the use of ndiswrapper if possible currently. Can people give me some info on their experiences with any cards they would recommend. Please be specific as to exact make/model.
 
Thanks,
 
Dan 
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 17:54:51 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:54:51 -0500
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for
 IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <20050303172837.86279.qmail-KqvIsxqYR2SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303172837.86279.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42274F6B.209@alteeve.com>

Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Hi folks,
>  
> I would like some information on buying a Linux supported wireless G 
> card for my IBM T23 laptop. It supports PCMCIA type II cards. I want 
> something supported under Linux obviously :-) but without requiring the 
> use of ndiswrapper if possible currently. Can people give me some info 
> on their experiences with any cards they would recommend. Please be 
> specific as to exact make/model.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Dan 

I've had luck with my Linksys WPC11 (first gen) on my Thinkpad a22m 
under FC1 through FC3. That said, a friend got a more recent version of 
the same card which she couldn't get working.

Madison

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly (Digimer)
TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 18:05:12 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:05:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <42274F6B.209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42274F6B.209@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20050303180512.95578.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yeah that is the problem with some cards it depends on the revision # as well since chipset/firmware has a big impact. That is why I need info on a current "G" that works well. Thanks for the info though. Every little bit helps.
 
:-)

Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I would like some information on buying a Linux supported wireless G 
> card for my IBM T23 laptop. It supports PCMCIA type II cards. I want 
> something supported under Linux obviously :-) but without requiring the 
> use of ndiswrapper if possible currently. Can people give me some info 
> on their experiences with any cards they would recommend. Please be 
> specific as to exact make/model.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan 

I've had luck with my Linksys WPC11 (first gen) on my Thinkpad a22m 
under FC1 through FC3. That said, a friend got a more recent version of 
the same card which she couldn't get working.

Madison

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly (Digimer)
TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
--
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 18:17:24 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:17:24 -0500
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <20050303180512.95578.qmail-U/uKf82u23SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <42274F6B.209@alteeve.com>
 <20050303180512.95578.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39488255.20050303131724@rogers.com>


Thursday, March 3, 2005, 1:05:12 PM, you wrote:

DG> Yeah that is the problem with some cards it depends on the
DG> revision # as well since chipset/firmware has a big impact. That
DG> is why I need info on a current "G" that works well. Thanks for
DG> the info though. Every little bit helps.
DG> ?
DG> :-)

  Not to hijack this thread, but - as someone who will be setting up a
  home wireless network in the next month - this is certainly a topic
  of interest for me also.

  I don't suppose there's a 'linuxprinting.org' for wi-fi yet, eh?

  Cheers,

  Matt


-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


"A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics."
 - John Ralston Saul

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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 18:22:12 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:22:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <39488255.20050303131724-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <39488255.20050303131724@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050303182212.12982.qmail@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have yet to find a "good" resource (yes google is my friend :-)) for wireless card support in Linux that is current and up to date which lists manufacturer/model/revision/chipset or whether the card requires ndiswrapper (using windows drivers) to work or not.
 
Dan 

Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

Thursday, March 3, 2005, 1:05:12 PM, you wrote:

DG> Yeah that is the problem with some cards it depends on the
DG> revision # as well since chipset/firmware has a big impact. That
DG> is why I need info on a current "G" that works well. Thanks for
DG> the info though. Every little bit helps.
DG>  
DG> :-)

Not to hijack this thread, but - as someone who will be setting up a
home wireless network in the next month - this is certainly a topic
of interest for me also.

I don't suppose there's a 'linuxprinting.org' for wi-fi yet, eh?

Cheers,

Matt


-- 

Matt Cahill
m dash cahill at rogers dot com


"A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics."
- John Ralston Saul

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 18:36:38 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:36:38 -0500
Subject: "linux printing" for wireless
Message-ID: <42275936.6070707@sympatico.ca>

Matt cahill wrote:

>I don't suppose there's a 'linuxprinting.org' for wi-fi yet, eh?
>
this page is the rough equivalent:

http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/

and yes I am dancing in the same minefield, except that my laptop has a  
built in Atheros
card --oh joy!

John

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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 14:17:56 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:17:56 +0000
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <20050303172837.86279.qmail-KqvIsxqYR2SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303172837.86279.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503031417.57200.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 3, 2005 05:28 pm, Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I would like some information on buying a Linux supported wireless G card
> for my IBM T23 laptop. It supports PCMCIA type II cards. I want something
> supported under Linux obviously :-) but without requiring the use of
> ndiswrapper if possible currently. Can people give me some info on their
> experiences with any cards they would recommend. Please be specific as to
> exact make/model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan

I am currently using a Linksys WPC55AG v1.1 
Atheros chipset - a,b,g
madwifi drivers.

This card is available everywhere.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=628085&sku=L48-2202


It works well, but has a weaker signal - less distance than my orinoco gold

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 19:12:32 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:12:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <200503031417.57200.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503031417.57200.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050303191232.64973.qmail@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Wow Tiger lists it for 120$. Pretty expensive. I have seen many "G" wireless cards for 40-50$. Even at Tiger Direct.
 
Dan

Jason Shein <jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
On March 3, 2005 05:28 pm, Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I would like some information on buying a Linux supported wireless G card
> for my IBM T23 laptop. It supports PCMCIA type II cards. I want something
> supported under Linux obviously :-) but without requiring the use of
> ndiswrapper if possible currently. Can people give me some info on their
> experiences with any cards they would recommend. Please be specific as to
> exact make/model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan

I am currently using a Linksys WPC55AG v1.1 
Atheros chipset - a,b,g
madwifi drivers.

This card is available everywhere.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=628085&sku=L48-2202


It works well, but has a weaker signal - less distance than my orinoco gold

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 19:16:17 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:16:17 -0500
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <20050303191232.64973.qmail-PllgjHOHifKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503031417.57200.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050303191232.64973.qmail@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050303191617.GY31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 02:12:32PM -0500, Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Wow Tiger lists it for 120$. Pretty expensive. I have seen many "G" wireless cards for 40-50$. Even at Tiger Direct.

Yeah amazing what going from FullMAC to SoftMAC does to the price.  No
wonder companies are swithing their designs to WinMAC designs.  Makes
their cards just as cheap as the competitors who have already switched
to cheap junk chips.  It's just like how a winmodem can be bought for
$20 while a real modem is 2 or 3 times that.

You never get more than you pay for (although sometimes you get less).

Lennart Sorensen
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 19:42:08 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:42:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>

Hi all.  Anyone thinking about a change of scene?  Australia is looking 
likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year 
(July - June), over its already significant immigration quotas.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1315112.htm

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:00:29 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:00:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050303200029.47561.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am looking into New Zealand myself as well. Same situation there. One of the lowest unemployment rates in the world for skilled workers. Public Health care, affordable living and nice annual weather patterns. Also there is a much more open acceptance to Open Source software in use in Gov and Corporate sectors in comparison to what we have in Canada. As Canadians we are high on the entry/approval list. Plus for me being a paddler (Kayak, Surfski & Outrigger canoe) having access to the pacific on multiple shorelines is a big bonus ;-)
 
Cheers,
 
Dan

Robert Brockway <rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi all. Anyone thinking about a change of scene? Australia is looking 
likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year 
(July - June), over its already significant immigration quotas.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1315112.htm

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:03:32 2005
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:03:32 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> Australia is looking 
> likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year 

I wonder if Australia suffers from the same 'no local experience' bias 
against immigrant workers that Canada does? The professional body in 
Ontario, equivalent to the one I was a member of in the UK, takes great 
delight in having *no* reciprocal agreement with foreign equivalents.

There are a heck of a lot of skilled immigrants delivering pizzas and 
working as night security guards in Toronto. I'm sure the same can be 
said for any big Australian city.

  Stewart

[ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a 
bowl of pea soup is seem as a cultural icon? 
<http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]
--
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:08:52 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:08:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303200029.47561.qmail-AStWkcKiNYCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303200029.47561.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031501360.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Dan Gennidakis wrote:

> I am looking into New Zealand myself as well. Same situation there. One 
> of the lowest unemployment rates in the world for skilled workers. 
> Public Health care, affordable living and nice annual weather patterns. 
> Also there is a much more open acceptance to Open Source software in use 
> in Gov and Corporate sectors in comparison to what we have in Canada. As 
> Canadians we are high on the entry/approval list. Plus for me being a 
> paddler (Kayak, Surfski & Outrigger canoe) having access to the pacific 
> on multiple shorelines is a big bonus ;-)

It is generally easier to get accepted in to New Zealand as a skilled 
migrant than it is to Australia too.

Once you've been resident in New Zealand for 2 years you may acquire 
citizenship.  There is also a bonus here - New Zealand citizens have the 
right to live and work in Australia indefinitely.

There is talk of Australia and New Zealand becoming a single migration 
zone but that is probably several years away.  This will mean no 
identification would be needed to travel between the countries past that 
required for a domestic flight, and would mean a single immigration quota 
set by a joint committee.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:13:08 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:13:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42276D94.7030201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

> I wonder if Australia suffers from the same 'no local experience' bias 

As someone who lived the first 30 years of his life in Australia and sat 
on many interview panels I would have to say no.  When I first came to 
Canada I encountered this problem and was quite stunned.

> against immigrant workers that Canada does? The professional body in 
> Ontario, equivalent to the one I was a member of in the UK, takes great 
> delight in having *no* reciprocal agreement with foreign equivalents.

Some professions may have stipulations about foreign qualifications as is 
the case in Canada.  I know an Iraqi doctor in Aus who cannot practice 
until we gets more qualifications.  These sorts of limitations openly 
admitted of course.

> There are a heck of a lot of skilled immigrants delivering pizzas and 
> working as night security guards in Toronto. I'm sure the same can be 
> said for any big Australian city.

I bet.  I have encountered it more here but then Canada has a much bigger 
immigration programme too.

> [ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a bowl of
> pea soup is seem as a cultural icon?
> <http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]

Hey - I resemble that remark! :)

Don't knock a pie and peas until you have tried it :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:19:05 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:19:05 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050303201905.GZ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

> > [ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a bowl of
> > pea soup is seem as a cultural icon?
> > <http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]
> 
> Hey - I resemble that remark! :)
> 
> Don't knock a pie and peas until you have tried it :)

Hmm, sounds potentially tasty actually.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 15:32:23 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:32:23 +0000
Subject: Linux supported Wireless PCMCIA a/b/g card typeII - for IBM T23 2647-2TU?
In-Reply-To: <20050303191232.64973.qmail-PllgjHOHifKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303191232.64973.qmail@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503031532.23948.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 3, 2005 07:12 pm, Dan Gennidakis wrote:
> Wow Tiger lists it for 120$. Pretty expensive. I have seen many "G"
> wireless cards for 40-50$. Even at Tiger Direct.
>

b,g cards are cheap.

a,b,g cards are not.

yet.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 20:25:05 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:25:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303201905.GZ31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <20050303201905.GZ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031523030.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> > Don't knock a pie and peas until you have tried it :)
> 
> Hmm, sounds potentially tasty actually.

It is.  The "Pie Floater" mentioned in the URL is a specialty of South 
Australia but the more general "pie and peas" will be found throughout the 
country.  Remember to add tomato sauce ;)

Anyone moving to Australia must master the art of eating a pie one handed 
without dropping anything.  It is harder than it sounds.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:26:34 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:26:34 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4227810A.6010402@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> Hi all.  Anyone thinking about a change of scene?  Australia is looking 
> likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year 
> (July - June), over its already significant immigration quotas.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1315112.htm
> 
> Rob
> 

Australia???  That's a bit of a commute, from Mississauga.  ;-)
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:32:21 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:32:21 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42276D94.7030201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <42278265.9070507@rogers.com>

Stewart C. Russell wrote:

> [ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a 
> bowl of pea soup is seem as a cultural icon? 
> <http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]

And of course, since it's from Australia, the pie is upside down.  ;-)
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:34:14 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:34:14 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303201905.GZ31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <20050303201905.GZ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <422782D6.2070403@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>>>[ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a bowl of
>>>pea soup is seem as a cultural icon?
>>><http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]
>>
>>Hey - I resemble that remark! :)
>>
>>Don't knock a pie and peas until you have tried it :)
> 
> 
> Hmm, sounds potentially tasty actually.

Pea soup is OK, but that mushy pea stuff, that the Brits like, is gawd 
awful.  I once made the mistake of having some.  ;-)
--
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:40:02 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:40:02 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <4227810A.6010402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4227810A.6010402@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050303214002.GA12357@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 04:26:34PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
>Robert Brockway wrote:
>>Hi all.  Anyone thinking about a change of scene?  Australia is looking 
>>likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year 
>>(July - June), over its already significant immigration quotas.
>>
>>http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1315112.htm
>>
>>Rob
>>
>
>Australia???  That's a bit of a commute, from Mississauga.  ;-)

You're darn tootin'.  The generally accepted method is to start closer,
but hey TMTOWTDI :-)
-- 

yours,

William

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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:44:19 2005
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:44:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42278265.9070507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <42278265.9070507@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.61.0503031643400.8877@otaku.freeshell.org>

yOn Thu, 3 Mar 2005, James Knott wrote:

> Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:32:21 -0500
> From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Skilled migration
> 
> Stewart C. Russell wrote:
>
>> [ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a bowl 
>> of pea soup is seem as a cultural icon? 
>> <http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]
>
> And of course, since it's from Australia, the pie is upside down.  ;-)

    And they sleep on top of their duvets; it's down under.

-- 

         Chris F.A. Johnson                             cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org
         =================================================================
         bq933-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org         http://members.rogers.com/c.f.a.johnson
         c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org                http://cfaj.freeshell.org

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 21:49:28 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:49:28 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303214002.GA12357-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4227810A.6010402@rogers.com> <20050303214002.GA12357@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <42278668.6080108@rogers.com>

William O'Higgins wrote:

> You're darn tootin'.  The generally accepted method is to start closer,
> but hey TMTOWTDI :-)

What's TMTOWTDI?
--
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 22:01:26 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:01:26 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42278668.6080108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4227810A.6010402@rogers.com> <20050303214002.GA12357@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <42278668.6080108@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050303220126.GA12587@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 04:49:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
>William O'Higgins wrote:
>
>>You're darn tootin'.  The generally accepted method is to start closer,
>>but hey, TMTOWTDI :-)
>
>What's TMTOWTDI?

There's More Than One Way To Do It - the official Perl motto.

The unofficial motto is; "Yeah, it looks like line noise, but this
one-liner can't be written in less than 200 lines of C."
-- 

yours,

William

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 22:08:15 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:08:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303220126.GA12587-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303220126.GA12587@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
> There's More Than One Way To Do It - the official Perl motto.
> 
> The unofficial motto is; "Yeah, it looks like line noise, but this
> one-liner can't be written in less than 200 lines of C."

However, the unofficial corollary is:  "Mind you, the 200 lines of C would
probably be easier to understand and maintain!" 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 23:55:50 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:55:50 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303220126.GA12587@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050303235550.GA23377@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 05:08:15PM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
> > There's More Than One Way To Do It - the official Perl motto.
> > 
> > The unofficial motto is; "Yeah, it looks like line noise, but this
> > one-liner can't be written in less than 200 lines of C."
> 
> However, the unofficial corollary is:  "Mind you, the 200 lines of C would
> probably be easier to understand and maintain!" 

As would the 10 line perl version that was written
in a clear form instead of line noise.

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From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar  3 23:06:02 2005
From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (J. Qiang Li)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050303230602.70645.qmail@web54705.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
> > There's More Than One Way To Do It - the official Perl motto.
> > 
> > The unofficial motto is; "Yeah, it looks like line noise, but this
> > one-liner can't be written in less than 200 lines of C."
> 
> However, the unofficial corollary is:  "Mind you, the 200 lines of C would
> probably be easier to understand and maintain!" 

I am sure you can fuck up with any language :) just a matter of which one is more capable of
writting clean code. 

After all, how many discipline programmers are there?


James.

> 
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web 
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
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From jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 00:08:18 2005
From: jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Rodito Buan)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:08:18 -0500
Subject: "linux printing" for wireless
In-Reply-To: <42275936.6070707-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <42275936.6070707@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050304000852.C920F6DD9B@lethe.ss.org>

And also http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ibm.html some of the setups there
have howtos on setting up built-in wireless on notebooks.

Jeff 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf 
> Of John McGregor
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:37 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: Re: "linux printing" for wireless
> 
> Matt cahill wrote:
> 
> >I don't suppose there's a 'linuxprinting.org' for wi-fi yet, eh?
> >
> this page is the rough equivalent:
> 
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
> 
> and yes I am dancing in the same minefield, except that my 
> laptop has a built in Atheros card --oh joy!
> 
> John
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 
> columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 00:43:39 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:43:39 -0500
Subject: "linux printing" for wireless
In-Reply-To: <20050304000852.C920F6DD9B-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050304000852.C920F6DD9B@lethe.ss.org>
Message-ID: <200503031943.39153.m-cahill@rogers.com>


> this page is the rough equivalent:
> 
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
> 
> and yes I am dancing in the same minefield, except that my laptop has a ?
> built in Atheros
> card --oh joy!
> 
> John

On March 3, 2005 07:08 pm, Rodito Buan wrote:
> And also http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ibm.html some of the setups there
> have howtos on setting up built-in wireless on notebooks.
>
> Jeff

Thanks for the links, guys.  I don't have a 'nix notebook, but a mixed OS 
household (me-linux, the wife-OSX) to setup.  Hoping to share a cable 
connection over a wireless LAN, using a DLink wireless router, an AirPort 
card for her desktop, and a Linux-friendly wi-fi card for my desktop.

Thanks again,

Matt

-- 
Matt Cahill
             m dash cahill at rogers dot com
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 00:48:50 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:48:50 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503031948.50795.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 3, 2005 14:42, Robert Brockway wrote:
> Hi all.  Anyone thinking about a change of scene?  Australia is looking
> likely to take in 20,000 additional skilled workers next financial year
> (July - June), over its already significant immigration quotas.
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1315112.htm

I am very sceptical of industry lobby groups that try to lobby (read buy) 
politicians into passing increased immigration quotas. It could be pure 
coincidence that the same language that was used to gut the IT industry in 
the US is now being used in Australia. You can read Dr. Norman Matloff's 
essay "Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage" at 
<http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html>.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 02:27:11 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:27:11 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031523030.11717-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031508590.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <20050303201905.GZ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031523030.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4227C77F.3070704@sympatico.ca>

Robert Brockway wrote:

>The "Pie Floater" mentioned in the URL is a specialty of South 
>Australia but the more general "pie and peas" will be found throughout the 
>country.  Remember to add tomato sauce ;)
>
(he means ketchup ;)
djp
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 02:45:59 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 21:45:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303220126.GA12587@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
    <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <50687.207.188.88.71.1109904359.squirrel@207.188.88.71>


On the subject of write-only languages, I recall that Forth was once
characterized as 'a language that uses a human pre-processor'.

Peter


> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
>> There's More Than One Way To Do It - the official Perl motto.
>>
>> The unofficial motto is; "Yeah, it looks like line noise, but this
>> one-liner can't be written in less than 200 lines of C."
>
> However, the unofficial corollary is:  "Mind you, the 200 lines of C would
> probably be easier to understand and maintain!"
>
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry at spsystems.net
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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From greenj-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 03:39:54 2005
From: greenj-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Jimmy Green)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:39:54 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
References: <20050303220126.GA12587@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>    <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net> <50687.207.188.88.71.1109904359.squirrel@207.188.88.71>
Message-ID: <4227D88A.6070306@primus.ca>

> On the subject of write-only languages, I recall that Forth was once
> characterized as 'a language that uses a human pre-processor'.

two things on that,,,
- all the libs in the world are no good if you prefer writing on your cave wall
- cant beat the compile time;-)
- 1 + 1 = 3

---
to bring heed and grate to halt try for (ms = -1 ; timetravel(ms) ; ms++) { ; }
if your keyboard is _really_ slow, you should get to the second iteration ...
PS, if X implements better method, endless echo "thanks" ; timetravel 0 <Enter>

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 05:43:59 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 00:43:59 -0500
Subject: mkisofs+cdrecord and Windows compatability
Message-ID: <20050304054359.GC11010@m450>

  I use linux... but other people use Windows.  I make backups twice a
month at home (don't you wish everybody did?) and it's saved me from
myself on a few occasions.  My linux machine can read the CDs it burns.

  When I make CDs for other people, WindowsXP can read them.  However,
XP sees the file names munged to 8.3 format.  What commandline switches
am I missing?  I move or copy all the files I want burned to the "xfer"
subdirectory, and run the short script...

#!/bin/sh
mkisofs -R xfer | cdrecord -tao -v fs=8m -data dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 -


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From msh7-U2XT7ciQrQL3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 06:41:07 2005
From: msh7-U2XT7ciQrQL3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Hong)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 01:41:07 -0500
Subject: mkisofs+cdrecord and Windows compatability
In-Reply-To: <20050304054359.GC11010@m450>
References: <20050304054359.GC11010@m450>
Message-ID: <20050304064107.GA25267@sechs.mushy.xyz>

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 00:43 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I use linux... but other people use Windows.  I make backups twice a
> month at home (don't you wish everybody did?) and it's saved me from
> myself on a few occasions.  My linux machine can read the CDs it burns.
> 
>   When I make CDs for other people, WindowsXP can read them.  However,
> XP sees the file names munged to 8.3 format.  What commandline switches
> am I missing?  I move or copy all the files I want burned to the "xfer"
> subdirectory, and run the short script...
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> mkisofs -R xfer | cdrecord -tao -v fs=8m -data dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 -

You can add  '-J' to mkisofs to add Joliet records and get up to 64
characters per filename in windoze.

mkisofs -R -J xfer...


Michael

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From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 13:29:49 2005
From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:29:49 -0500
Subject: "linux printing" for wireless
In-Reply-To: <200503031943.39153.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050304000852.C920F6DD9B@lethe.ss.org>
	 <200503031943.39153.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <eb26f96e05030405292b4e73b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:43:39 -0500, Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Thanks for the links, guys.  I don't have a 'nix notebook, but a mixed OS
> household (me-linux, the wife-OSX) to setup.  Hoping to share a cable
> connection over a wireless LAN, using a DLink wireless router, an AirPort
> card for her desktop, and a Linux-friendly wi-fi card for my desktop.
I've got the exact same setup, right down to the DLink WiFi router.
The only problems were with WPA. WEP worked great with the GNU/Linux
box (note: I am using NDISwrapper), but I could never get WPA to work.
For the time being the Linux box is off and I've got WPA going on the
PowerBook. I guess with a Linux-friendly card you could dive into
wpa_supplicant and see if it works.
(http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/)
Be forewarned: use Software Update to update your AirPort package! I
could not get WPA-PSK to work otherwise.

Mike

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http://www.getfirefox.com/
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 09:26:36 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:26:36 +0000
Subject: "linux printing" for wireless
In-Reply-To: <eb26f96e05030405292b4e73b4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050304000852.C920F6DD9B@lethe.ss.org> <200503031943.39153.m-cahill@rogers.com> <eb26f96e05030405292b4e73b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200503040926.36342.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 4, 2005 01:29 pm, Mike Newman wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:43:39 -0500, Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Thanks for the links, guys.  I don't have a 'nix notebook, but a mixed OS
> > household (me-linux, the wife-OSX) to setup.  Hoping to share a cable
> > connection over a wireless LAN, using a DLink wireless router, an AirPort
> > card for her desktop, and a Linux-friendly wi-fi card for my desktop.
>
> I've got the exact same setup, right down to the DLink WiFi router.
> The only problems were with WPA. WEP worked great with the GNU/Linux
> box (note: I am using NDISwrapper), but I could never get WPA to work.
> For the time being the Linux box is off and I've got WPA going on the
> PowerBook. I guess with a Linux-friendly card you could dive into
> wpa_supplicant and see if it works.
> (http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/)
> Be forewarned: use Software Update to update your AirPort package! I
> could not get WPA-PSK to work otherwise.
>
> Mike

Just be aware, WPA with a weak passphrase is easier to crack than WEP.

http://www.tinypeap.com/docs/WPA_Passive_Dictionary_Attack_Overview.pdf

-snip-

to crack WEP, an attacker has to gather many packets, possibly millions, but 
can then easily crack any key. For WPA, certain shorter or dictionary-based 
keys are highly crackable because an attacker can monitor a short transaction 
or force that transaction to occur and then perform the crack far away from 
the physical site.

Pick passphrases that aren?t entirely comprised of dictionary words, meaning 
they need some random nonsense in them. ?My dog has fleas?: very bad. 
?Mdasf;lkjadfklja;dfja;dfja;d?: very good, but hard to type in. Passphrases 
should be at least 20 characters.

A random passphrase of at least 96 bits and preferably 128 bits will defeat 
the cracking

-snip-

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 14:27:23 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:27:23 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?-WORKAROUND
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503011902190.4485-dm88P3lIUJm3mOxTGPmkd16hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050301220303.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050301223631.GA2528@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050301233030.GA2487@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503011902190.4485@cruithne.localnet>
Message-ID: <20050304142723.GA16186@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 07:04:22PM -0500, John Vetterli wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, William O'Higgins wrote:
>>>On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 04:52:29PM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
>>>>>I use a cron job to update the backdrop (root window) of my window
>>>>>manager.  Sometimes I am not running X, however, and then my mail box
>>>>>fills up with cron telling me that it cannot open display :0.0.  Is
>>>>>there a way I can test whether I can open that display so I can quit
>>>>>cleanly?
>>>>>Any pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>>>>if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ]; then
>>>>	echo "No display";
>>>>else
>>>>	echo "Do something";
>>>>fi
>>>Hmm...  Checking DISPLAY works if you're in Xterm shell session, say
>>>from ~/.profile.  But, I don't think Cron sees or care about DISPLAY
>>>environment variable.  In fact, Cron by design runs with minimum set of
>>>environment variables.

This is true.  Cron has an impoverished $ENVIRONMENT, and these
solutions don't work.

>>>Try 'ps -C X' or something.

This definitely works.  I was hoping for a "right" way, where the script
actually checks if it can open a $DISPLAY, but if it works, it works :-)

Here is the code snippet I ended up using:

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

# This little program sets my background image 
# randomly in blackbox (and now openbox).
# It's called when I startx.

$isxrunning = `ps -C startx | grep "startx"`;

if ($isxrunning =~ "startx") {
	changebackdrop();
} else {
	exit;
}

If anyone is interested in the code I'll post it somewhere, but it
certainly isn't tricky.

Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.
-- 

yours,

William

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 16:51:03 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:51:03 -0500
Subject: mkisofs+cdrecord and Windows compatability
In-Reply-To: <20050304054359.GC11010@m450>
References: <20050304054359.GC11010@m450>
Message-ID: <20050304165103.GA31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:43:59AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I use linux... but other people use Windows.  I make backups twice a
> month at home (don't you wish everybody did?) and it's saved me from
> myself on a few occasions.  My linux machine can read the CDs it burns.
> 
>   When I make CDs for other people, WindowsXP can read them.  However,
> XP sees the file names munged to 8.3 format.  What commandline switches
> am I missing?  I move or copy all the files I want burned to the "xfer"
> subdirectory, and run the short script...
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> mkisofs -R xfer | cdrecord -tao -v fs=8m -data dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 -

Add -J (joliet extensions).  That is the MS way to do long filenames on
CDs, ust like rockridge (-R) is the unix way.

mkisofs -R -J should work fine.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 16:54:44 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:54:44 -0500
Subject: DVD burning
In-Reply-To: <BAY104-F198D1317A7ACA3AB5964D2B55C0-MsuGFMq8XAE@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY104-F198D1317A7ACA3AB5964D2B55C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050304165444.GB31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 10:57:41AM -0500, Martin Duclos wrote:
> Hey! I've been trying to burn DVDs but with little success on fedora core 
> 3. I can burn cd fine with the drive but dvd, not a chance. Could anyone 
> point me in the right direction? MIssing packages? When I burn I just get 
> an unsuccessful error with K3B and Xcdroast.
> Thanks for any pointers!

Do you have dvd+rw-tools (and the included growisofs tool) installed?
That is what is used to write DVDs.  Other options are cdrecord-prodvd
(binary only, not open source), or if your drive is a pioneer A03, you
can use the patched hack of cdrecord often called dvdrecord, but if your
drive is anything but an A03, it usually doesn't work.  growisofs works
great though and is simple to use.

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -R -J -othermkisofsoptions dirname

And to add more files later:

growisofs -M /dev/dvd -R -J -othermkisofsoptions dirwithnewfiles

Just make sure the options match each time.

To burn an iso image to DVD use:

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=imagename.iso

That's it.  k3b supports it just fine at least in my experience,
although I prefer the command line to k3b.

Remember you generally have to be root for these tools to work properly.
setuid is sometimes enough, but not always so unfortunately burning
discs is something that seems to require root.

Lennart Sorensen
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 17:35:12 2005
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 04 Mar 2005 12:35:12 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303230602.70645.qmail-2oP0qqmqQz6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050303230602.70645.qmail@web54705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <lvk6onl3fz.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"J. Qiang Li" <shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> writes:
> After all, how many discipline programmers are there?

3.  Two are dead, though.
-- 
g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>           starnix, toronto, ontario, ca
phone: 647.722.5301 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 19:19:23 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 14:19:23 -0500
Subject: Rogers / Second Cup hotspots
Message-ID: <4228B4BB.6000300@rogers.com>

This afternoon, I forced myself to drink a "Chocolate Lover's Latte" 
(vanilla fudge brownie) in order to test the new Rogers / Second Cup hot 
spots.  I'm happy to report, that I had no problem running WiFi, with my 
ThinkPad, running SuSE 9.2.  The service is free, until April.

jk
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 19:24:45 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:24:45 +0000
Subject: Free SSL certificates from GoDaddy
Message-ID: <200503041924.45594.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

GoDaddy is giving away free SSL certificates to qualified open source 
projects.

https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/ssl/ssl_opensource.asp?se=%2B

-snip-

Secure your Open Source project with a one-year Turbo SSL Certificate, 
absolutely free from Go Daddy; no strings attached.

-snip-


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 19:25:10 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 14:25:10 -0500
Subject: Rogers / Second Cup hotspots
In-Reply-To: <4228B4BB.6000300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4228B4BB.6000300@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4228B616.9070404@rogers.com>

James Knott wrote:
> This afternoon, I forced myself to drink a "Chocolate Lover's Latte" 
> (vanilla fudge brownie) in order to test the new Rogers / Second Cup hot 
> spots.  I'm happy to report, that I had no problem running WiFi, with my 
> ThinkPad, running SuSE 9.2.  The service is free, until April.
> 
> jk
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

Forgot to mention, check the Second Cup web site, for locations.

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From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 20:03:29 2005
From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:03:29 -0500
Subject: Rogers / Second Cup hotspots
In-Reply-To: <4228B4BB.6000300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4228B4BB.6000300@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050304200329.GB6268@smeagol>

On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 02:19:23PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> This afternoon, I forced myself to drink a "Chocolate Lover's Latte" 
> (vanilla fudge brownie) in order to test the new Rogers / Second Cup hot 
> spots.  I'm happy to report, that I had no problem running WiFi, with my 
> ThinkPad, running SuSE 9.2.  The service is free, until April.

I was also fine with my Debian laptop. A couple things of note:
	- there's a web site you have to visit to "activate" the service (ask
	  what the URL is...I think I was able to put any URL into my browser
	  and it redirected)
	- when you get home you may need to update your /etc/resolv.conf file
	  so that it points at your home DNS server instead of the rogers
	  server.

HTH,
emma

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
www.xtrinsic.com
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 20:30:02 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:30:02 -0500
Subject: Rogers / Second Cup hotspots
In-Reply-To: <20050304200329.GB6268@smeagol>
References: <4228B4BB.6000300@rogers.com> <20050304200329.GB6268@smeagol>
Message-ID: <4228C54A.4070403@rogers.com>

Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 02:19:23PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>This afternoon, I forced myself to drink a "Chocolate Lover's Latte" 
>>(vanilla fudge brownie) in order to test the new Rogers / Second Cup hot 
>>spots.  I'm happy to report, that I had no problem running WiFi, with my 
>>ThinkPad, running SuSE 9.2.  The service is free, until April.
> 
> 
> I was also fine with my Debian laptop. A couple things of note:
> 	- there's a web site you have to visit to "activate" the service (ask
> 	  what the URL is...I think I was able to put any URL into my browser
> 	  and it redirected)
> 	- when you get home you may need to update your /etc/resolv.conf file
> 	  so that it points at your home DNS server instead of the rogers
> 	  server.

I had similar experiences.  I don't have to worry about the DNS, because 
I normally use Rogers anyway.  Also, I use different profiles for 
ethernet & WiFi, with the WiFi side configured to always get the info 
from DNS.

Right now, that first page you see, is simply an intro to the service, 
but I imagine that it'll be used to authorize the connection, once 
charging begins.  However, I do thing the prices are a bit high.  It's 
15 cents/minute or $9 hour.  At the McDonalds hot spots, you only have 
to spend a certain amount (< $4 IIRC) on food, to get 45 minutes of free 
access.  Also, according to what I've read, providing free WiFi as an 
inducement, is more profitable than charging for access.
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From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 21:35:37 2005
From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:35:37 -0500
Subject: Linux and Windows Terminal Services in Schools
Message-ID: <20050304213537.GD6629@smeagol>

Hello,

This document was forwarded to the Linux Documentation Project.
	http://math.univ-lille1.fr/~hafidi/terminal-services/
I know there are a number of people who are interested in Linux in the
schools, and I'm wondering if anyone can give me some feedback on this
document. Basically I'd like to know:
	1) what's good about it
	2) what needs to be improved/what is missing

thanks,
emma

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
I18N Coordinator, The Linux Documentation Project
www.tldp.org
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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar  4 15:57:41 2005
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:57:41 -0500
Subject: DVD burning
Message-ID: <BAY104-F198D1317A7ACA3AB5964D2B55C0@phx.gbl>

Hey! I've been trying to burn DVDs but with little success on fedora core 3. 
I can burn cd fine with the drive but dvd, not a chance. Could anyone point 
me in the right direction? MIssing packages? When I burn I just get an 
unsuccessful error with K3B and Xcdroast.
Thanks for any pointers!

Martin


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From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar  5 02:24:36 2005
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:24:36 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <20050302021019.GA2879-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200503012041.27721.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050302021019.GA2879@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200503042124.36457.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On March 1, 2005 09:10 pm, William O'Higgins wrote:

> >What window manager do you run? ?I suspect many wm have the capability to
> >rotate backdrops at set intervals (kde's wm does).
>
> I run OpenBox, and as far as I know they don't build that in, because
> there are many "right" ways to do it, and because it is not (as they
> (and I)) define it the window manager's job. ?KDE is attempting to be
> all things to all people, and so that is built in.

Then why not just call your script within your X startup?  The script can 
sleep for however long you want to keep the same backdrop and then change it, 
repeat in an infinite loop.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar  5 06:18:31 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 01:18:31 -0500
Subject: Checking whether a script can open a display?
In-Reply-To: <200503042124.36457.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050301215229.GA2135@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200503012041.27721.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050302021019.GA2879@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200503042124.36457.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20050305061831.GA18534@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 09:24:36PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote:
>On March 1, 2005 09:10 pm, William O'Higgins wrote:
>
>> >What window manager do you run? ?I suspect many wm have the capability to
>> >rotate backdrops at set intervals (kde's wm does).
>>
>> I run OpenBox, and as far as I know they don't build that in, because
>> there are many "right" ways to do it, and because it is not (as they
>> (and I)) define it the window manager's job. ?KDE is attempting to be
>> all things to all people, and so that is built in.
>
>Then why not just call your script within your X startup?  The script can 
>sleep for however long you want to keep the same backdrop and then change it, 
>repeat in an infinite loop.

Good question.  Mostly because keeping a Perl interpreter running has a
non-zero impact on the machine's performance.  That, and I already have
a process running to perform periodic tasks, so I like to leverage it
when possible.
-- 

yours,

William

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar  5 22:11:41 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:11:41 -0500
Subject: "screen" causes problems for non-screen tty's
Message-ID: <20050305221141.GB18650@m450>

  I'll avoid a long story, but I've got a bunch of stuff I want to do in
different text console tty's.  I log on as a regular user for email,
news, websurfing, etc.  I log on as a second special-purpose user for
other stuff like programming, etc.  When I open up a separate tty for
each of my tasks, 6 tty's is not enough.  I had to edit /etc/inittab
like so to get enough consoles...

# TERMINALS
c1:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty1 linux
c2:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty2 linux
c3:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty3 linux
c4:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty4 linux
c5:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty5 linux
c6:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty6 linux
c7:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty7 linux
c8:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty8 linux
c9:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty9 linux
c10:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty10 linux

  The X-session is in tty11, and I can run a second one in tty12 if I
get ambitious.

  Why am I not using screen, you ask?  Well, I tried, and everything
worked OK *UNDER SCREEN*, e.g. vim and mc (Midnight Commander).  But...
I started having problems in tty's that were *NOT* running under screen.
Vim and mc started spewing out A's and B's rather than moving the cursor
when I pressed the up and down arrows.  Apparently screen kicks *ALL*
text consoles into vt100 mode *PERMANENTLY*, even different tty's
running different users.  I have not been able to turn this off, other
than by re-booting (bleagh).

  I tried "export TERM=vt100", and it "worked".  The keys did what
they were "supposed to do".  The 4 grey arrow keys moved the cursor
around properly, and all the keys on the numeric keypad generate weird
escape sequences as per the vt100 spec... oops.  Losing the numeric
keypad is *NOT* acceptable, so I gave up.  Anybody have any ideas on how
to get screen to play nice?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar  5 23:51:03 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:51:03 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

Hello gang,

I am about to install Fedora Core 3 (from CD's) over an existing
installation of SuSE 9.1.
This is a dual-boot disk with grub, which has been partitioned using parted
when SuSE was installed.

Any advice on what to do first? Erase grub? Wipe out SuSE?

Thanks.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 01:26:51 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 20:26:51 -0500
Subject: ssmtp configuration question
Message-ID: <20050306012651.GD18650@m450>

  As the owner of a personal domain, I'm supposed to have working abuse
and postmaster and domain-admin addresses, in addition to my regular
personal email address.  Plus I have a couple of "throwaway" addresses
for websites that *INSIST* on email addresses.  My remote ISP allows up
to 10 separate email addresses at any one time, with separate email
blocking rules for each one, so receiving those emails is not a problem.

  Properly replying to them is my problem.  All those addresses are
eventually re-directed to different folders in my waltdnes account on my
home machine, running Gentoo linux.  It seems that ssmtp blindly sets
the "From:" and Return-Path to what it finds in /etc/passwd for the user
currently logged in, regardless of what I type in in mutt.  The only
override seems to be to "su -" and monkey with the revaliases file each
time I want to send with a different "From:" address.   Rather kludgey
to say the least.  Am I missing something glaringly obvious?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 01:34:17 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 20:34:17 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca>
	 <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP04C11F47361BB8594CC6C6B25E0@cez.ice>

I'm not familiar with FC3 install but from what I know, if you boot the
CD and let the install run, you can use fdisk to manually
partition/configure or let the installer do it for you. It will likely
automatically (with prompting) wipe your SuSE for you (which you want)
and install Lilo or Grub over the old bootloader. 

But then, I've not installed Fedora so I could be totally off on this
one ;) 

On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 18:51 -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Hello gang,
> 
> I am about to install Fedora Core 3 (from CD's) over an existing
> installation of SuSE 9.1.
> This is a dual-boot disk with grub, which has been partitioned using parted
> when SuSE was installed.
> 
> Any advice on what to do first? Erase grub? Wipe out SuSE?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>   Fran?ois Ouellette
> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 03:19:24 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 22:19:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> 
    <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
    <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71>

I just did the opposite: installed Suse over a Redhat installation. Suse
detected an existing linux installation and asked whether it should be
replaced. I answered 'yes' and the installation proceeded as normal from
there.

Peter H.




> I'm not familiar with FC3 install but from what I know, if you boot the
> CD and let the install run, you can use fdisk to manually
> partition/configure or let the installer do it for you. It will likely
> automatically (with prompting) wipe your SuSE for you (which you want)
> and install Lilo or Grub over the old bootloader.
>
> But then, I've not installed Fedora so I could be totally off on this
> one ;)
>
> On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 18:51 -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
>> Hello gang,
>>
>> I am about to install Fedora Core 3 (from CD's) over an existing
>> installation of SuSE 9.1.
>> This is a dual-boot disk with grub, which has been partitioned using
>> parted
>> when SuSE was installed.
>>
>> Any advice on what to do first? Erase grub? Wipe out SuSE?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>   Fran?ois Ouellette
>> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 13:35:07 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 08:35:07 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca>     <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>    <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost> <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71>
Message-ID: <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

I will know for sure how it goes later today. Thanks for those who replied.

BTW how do you compare SuSe with Fedora? One reason I am switching is that
since Novell took over SuSE it has changed the distributions and now there
is no longer a "free" personal desktop distribution.

Also it seems that there are a few exotic things in the SuSE bash that
prevents me from installing the OpenSource Ingres r3 database software.

I will see how it goes with Fedora.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, 05 March, 2005 22:19
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Installation of Fedora over SuSE


I just did the opposite: installed Suse over a Redhat installation. Suse
detected an existing linux installation and asked whether it should be
replaced. I answered 'yes' and the installation proceeded as normal from
there.

Peter H.




> I'm not familiar with FC3 install but from what I know, if you boot the
> CD and let the install run, you can use fdisk to manually
> partition/configure or let the installer do it for you. It will likely
> automatically (with prompting) wipe your SuSE for you (which you want)
> and install Lilo or Grub over the old bootloader.
>
> But then, I've not installed Fedora so I could be totally off on this
> one ;)
>
> On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 18:51 -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
>> Hello gang,
>>
>> I am about to install Fedora Core 3 (from CD's) over an existing
>> installation of SuSE 9.1.
>> This is a dual-boot disk with grub, which has been partitioned using
>> parted
>> when SuSE was installed.
>>
>> Any advice on what to do first? Erase grub? Wipe out SuSE?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>   Fran?ois Ouellette
>> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/3/05


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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 14:51:10 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 09:51:10 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca>
	 <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
	 <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost>
	 <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71>
	 <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice>

Well, part of why I've shied away from Fedora is because it is a
glorified beta for Red Hat itself. To anyone who knows, how exactly does
FC2 relate to FC3? Is FC2 a beta that was ditched for a new verison or
is it a stable release with FC3 being the test release? I hear Fedora
has a great forum though, a distinctly appealing feature for me. I might
check it (Fedora) out depending on how your experience with it.

I'm sure that SuSE vs. Fedora is like Intel vs. AMD or any other similar
comparison -- certain applications or features are present in one and
not the other and vice versa. 

Which other (if any) distributions made your shortlist?

On Sun, 2005-03-06 at 08:35 -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> I will know for sure how it goes later today. Thanks for those who replied.
> 
> BTW how do you compare SuSe with Fedora? One reason I am switching is that
> since Novell took over SuSE it has changed the distributions and now there
> is no longer a "free" personal desktop distribution.
> 
> Also it seems that there are a few exotic things in the SuSE bash that
> prevents me from installing the OpenSource Ingres r3 database software.
> 
> I will see how it goes with Fedora.
> 
>   Fran?ois Ouellette
> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Saturday, 05 March, 2005 22:19
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
> 
> 
> I just did the opposite: installed Suse over a Redhat installation. Suse
> detected an existing linux installation and asked whether it should be
> replaced. I answered 'yes' and the installation proceeded as normal from
> there.
> 
> Peter H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I'm not familiar with FC3 install but from what I know, if you boot the
> > CD and let the install run, you can use fdisk to manually
> > partition/configure or let the installer do it for you. It will likely
> > automatically (with prompting) wipe your SuSE for you (which you want)
> > and install Lilo or Grub over the old bootloader.
> >
> > But then, I've not installed Fedora so I could be totally off on this
> > one ;)
> >
> > On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 18:51 -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> >> Hello gang,
> >>
> >> I am about to install Fedora Core 3 (from CD's) over an existing
> >> installation of SuSE 9.1.
> >> This is a dual-boot disk with grub, which has been partitioned using
> >> parted
> >> when SuSE was installed.
> >>
> >> Any advice on what to do first? Erase grub? Wipe out SuSE?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>   Fran?ois Ouellette
> >> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> 

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From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 15:43:01 2005
From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 07:43:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: erc error ?
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050306154301.44970.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi,

When I boot my linux it says erc error when it
uncompress linux. Then I reboot it, it will be ok. Any
one any ideas? Thanks!

frank


	
		
__________________________________ 
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web 
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 15:57:14 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 15:57:14 +0000
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0-vCQSkuYnZQ8@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 6, 2005 02:51 pm, Jamon Camisso wrote:
> Well, part of why I've shied away from Fedora is because it is a
> glorified beta for Red Hat itself. To anyone who knows, how exactly does
> FC2 relate to FC3? Is FC2 a beta that was ditched for a new verison or
> is it a stable release with FC3 being the test release? I hear Fedora
> has a great forum though, a distinctly appealing feature for me. I might
> check it (Fedora) out depending on how your experience with it.
>
> I'm sure that SuSE vs. Fedora is like Intel vs. AMD or any other similar
> comparison -- certain applications or features are present in one and
> not the other and vice versa.
>
> Which other (if any) distributions made your shortlist?
>

Well I have totally moved away from any RPM based distros. In the past I have 
used Mandrake, Fedora, SuSE and many others.

Linux is advancing at a staggering rate. This means that new versions of your 
favorite distro are becoming available every 6-9 months. Unfortunately there 
is no painless, failsafe upgrade procedure for Mandrake, Fedora, or SuSE. If 
you read any of their forums you will find in every one, that the upgrade 
procedure available on the new cd's is never recommended, for various 
reasons.

By using Debian or Gentoo based distros, you are constantly updating your 
machine to the newest features, enhancements and bugfixes.

Debian "unstable" is just as stable as any RPM based distro. Apt-get is a 
fantastic method of managing your packages.

If you install gentoo you will always have the latest and greatest installed 
system. For example if you install 2004.6 and do all your updates, when 
2005.0 comes out , you will have the same installed system without having to 
wipe and upgrade from the new media.

Everyone has their opinons of what is the perfect distro. I just got 
frustrated with RPM dependency hell and lack of smooth upgrade procedures.

If you want a GUI installer then take a look into:

Xandros open circulation edition ( Debian )
http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html
review here http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9848

Vidalinux ( pre compiled Gentoo )
http://desktop.vidalinux.com/
review here  http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/47/3321.html


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 16:28:20 2005
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:28:20 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <200503061128.21110.mervc@eol.ca>

On Sunday 06 March 2005 08:35, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> I will know for sure how it goes later today. Thanks for those who replied.
>
> BTW how do you compare SuSe with Fedora? One reason I am switching is that
> since Novell took over SuSE it has changed the distributions and now there
> is no longer a "free" personal desktop distribution.
>
> Also it seems that there are a few exotic things in the SuSE bash that
> prevents me from installing the OpenSource Ingres r3 database software.
>
> I will see how it goes with Fedora.
>
>   Fran?ois Ouellette
> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>
>
I have dropped SuSE and FC-2 from active use and am back to a Debian based 
Distro.  I have 4 Distros on this Computer and can reach any one now that I 
have updated the Mepis Grub.  I did use the Suse Grub in the MBR for a long 
time and and had the test distro put its Grub in their root partition rather 
than the MBR.  With this last install, Mepis installed Grub in the MBR but 
didn't add all the other partitions like Ubuntu does. I just found Fedora and 
SuSE to be too different in file positions and names to what I have become 
used to. Mepis 3.3 is not recommended for production use since it is based on 
the Unstable branch of Debian.  I have found all versions to be quite stable 
tho.

Merv

-- 
Merv Curley
Toronto, Ont. Can

Mepis  Linux
KDE 3.3.2 Desktop   KMail 1.7.2


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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 16:38:41 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:38:41 +0000
Subject: erc error ?
In-Reply-To: <20050306154301.44970.qmail-O/cPtvXj38GA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050306154301.44970.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503061638.42042.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 6, 2005 03:43 pm, Frank Peng wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When I boot my linux it says erc error when it
> uncompress linux. Then I reboot it, it will be ok. Any
> one any ideas? Thanks!
>
> frank
>
>
>
>
Just out of curiosity, how old of a PC is this? What size of power supply?

The reason that I am asking, is that a while back I ran into a machine that 
had to be "double clutched". What was happening was the power supply was 
small and the HDD was failing, and during startup the HDD would draw enough 
power as to cause the voltage to drop causing errant CPU behaviour. Simply 
pressing the reset button would allow the system to complete the boot cycle. 
If the system were shut down and the HDD allowed to come to a halt, then you 
would have to repeat the procedure again.

Sounds like you are making it farther into the boot procedure, but don't 
overlook the possibility of a simple problem like hardware failure.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 17:20:53 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:20:53 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503061557.14880.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 03:57:14PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> Well I have totally moved away from any RPM based distros. In the past
> I have used Mandrake, Fedora, SuSE and many others.
> 
> Linux is advancing at a staggering rate. This means that new versions of your 
> favorite distro are becoming available every 6-9 months. Unfortunately there 
> is no painless, failsafe upgrade procedure for Mandrake, Fedora, or SuSE. If 
> you read any of their forums you will find in every one, that the upgrade 
> procedure available on the new cd's is never recommended, for various 
> reasons.
> 
> By using Debian or Gentoo based distros, you are constantly updating your 
> machine to the newest features, enhancements and bugfixes.
> 
> Debian "unstable" is just as stable as any RPM based distro. Apt-get is a 
> fantastic method of managing your packages.
> 
> If you install gentoo you will always have the latest and greatest installed 
> system. For example if you install 2004.6 and do all your updates, when 
> 2005.0 comes out , you will have the same installed system without having to 
> wipe and upgrade from the new media.
> 
> Everyone has their opinons of what is the perfect distro. I just got 
> frustrated with RPM dependency hell and lack of smooth upgrade procedures.
> 
> If you want a GUI installer then take a look into:
> 
> Xandros open circulation edition ( Debian )
> http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html
> review here http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9848
> 
> Vidalinux ( pre compiled Gentoo )
> http://desktop.vidalinux.com/
> review here  http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/47/3321.html

Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you do
that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 17:57:26 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:57:26 +0000
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050306172053.GA2166-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200503061757.27008.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 6, 2005 05:20 pm, William Park wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 03:57:14PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> > Well I have totally moved away from any RPM based distros. In the past
> > I have used Mandrake, Fedora, SuSE and many others.
> >
> > Linux is advancing at a staggering rate. This means that new versions of
> > your favorite distro are becoming available every 6-9 months.
> > Unfortunately there is no painless, failsafe upgrade procedure for
> > Mandrake, Fedora, or SuSE. If you read any of their forums you will find
> > in every one, that the upgrade procedure available on the new cd's is
> > never recommended, for various reasons.
> >
> > By using Debian or Gentoo based distros, you are constantly updating your
> > machine to the newest features, enhancements and bugfixes.
> >
> > Debian "unstable" is just as stable as any RPM based distro. Apt-get is a
> > fantastic method of managing your packages.
> >
> > If you install gentoo you will always have the latest and greatest
> > installed system. For example if you install 2004.6 and do all your
> > updates, when 2005.0 comes out , you will have the same installed system
> > without having to wipe and upgrade from the new media.
> >
> > Everyone has their opinons of what is the perfect distro. I just got
> > frustrated with RPM dependency hell and lack of smooth upgrade
> > procedures.
> >
> > If you want a GUI installer then take a look into:
> >
> > Xandros open circulation edition ( Debian )
> > http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html
> > review here http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9848
> >
> > Vidalinux ( pre compiled Gentoo )
> > http://desktop.vidalinux.com/
> > review here  http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/47/3321.html
>
> Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you do
> that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.

Exactly my point. Time not well spent. With Gentoo or Debian you can spend 
your time using your system, not upgrading and reinstalling all your custom 
configurations you spent so much time "getting it just right".

Having your software you looked long and hard for, or your desktop 
configurations lost can be deterring for a new user. Sure you or I know how 
to back up the configuration files, and reinstall them, but why the need to 
do so?

Try doing an upgrade with SuSE. Any packages not direcly from SuSE become 
blacklisted, and forced to uninstall. I understand that this is for library 
compatibility, but the aggravation is too much.

With a debian or gentoo based install your local guru or linux tech can 
administer the system online via ssh. 

No more wiping and reinstalling, because after all, we are trying to get away 
from the Windows way of doing things aren't we?


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 18:54:10 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 13:54:10 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost> <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <002001c5227d$f38911b0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

Well, there seem to be disk geometry issues with FC3, similar to SuSE.
I am collecting data and patches from the Fedora forums to find a fix but so
far the disk druid can't figure out my partitions!

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamon Camisso" <jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, 06 March, 2005 9:51
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Installation of Fedora over SuSE


Well, part of why I've shied away from Fedora is because it is a
glorified beta for Red Hat itself. To anyone who knows, how exactly does
FC2 relate to FC3? Is FC2 a beta that was ditched for a new verison or
is it a stable release with FC3 being the test release? I hear Fedora
has a great forum though, a distinctly appealing feature for me. I might
check it (Fedora) out depending on how your experience with it.
<snip>



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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 20:37:21 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 15:37:21 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503061557.14880.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <200503061537.22431.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 6, 2005 10:57, Jason Shein wrote:
> Well I have totally moved away from any RPM based distros. In the past I
> have used Mandrake, Fedora, SuSE and many others.
>
> Linux is advancing at a staggering rate. This means that new versions of
> your favorite distro are becoming available every 6-9 months. Unfortunately
> there is no painless, failsafe upgrade procedure for Mandrake, Fedora, or
> SuSE. If you read any of their forums you will find in every one, that the
> upgrade procedure available on the new cd's is never recommended, for
> various reasons.
>
> By using Debian or Gentoo based distros, you are constantly updating your
> machine to the newest features, enhancements and bugfixes.
>
> Debian "unstable" is just as stable as any RPM based distro. Apt-get is a
> fantastic method of managing your packages.

Going from MDK 10.0 to 10.1 involved pointing my machine at the 10.1 
repositories and then doing urpmi --auto-select, no reinstallation necessary. 
It works at least as well as apt-get.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar  6 20:39:54 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 15:39:54 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503061757.27008.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net> <200503061757.27008.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050306203954.GA2988@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 05:57:26PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> On March 6, 2005 05:20 pm, William Park wrote:
> > Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> > dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files
> > (you do that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed
> > files.
> 
> Exactly my point. Time not well spent. With Gentoo or Debian you can
> spend your time using your system, not upgrading and reinstalling all
> your custom configurations you spent so much time "getting it just
> right".

Hmm... what I mean by "restore" is, simply,
    cp -a /path/to/backup/* /
where '/path/to/backup' contains root tree with all the files you
modified since you installed Linux, eg.
    /patch/to/backup/etc/fstab
    /patch/to/backup/etc/rc.d/rc.local
    /patch/to/backup/etc/X11/XF86Config
    ...

Now, Slackware won't write over existing configuration files, like
    /etc/mail/aliases
because Slackware actually installs '/etc/mail/aliases.new' and checks
for '/etc/mail/aliases' before copying over.  But, this is only for
important system files (or, what Slackware thinks is important).  There
are files not in '/etc' which are equally important.

So, "install + restore" is the bullet-proof way for Slackware.  I would
assume also for other Linux distributions.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 01:40:55 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:40:55 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
Message-ID: <001001c522b6$c6f42b10$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

Got the patched image for the partition editor (see Bugzilla bug #138419)
and all the "probe_partition_for_geom()" errors disappeared when using the
patch.
I manually created the root and /swap partitions and then everything worked
fine. After about 30 minutes (on a 1 GHz machine) the installation
process was complete and FC3 booted normally.
I haven't played too much with the system yet but so far I like it, it's
different (can't say what, looks more UNIX?), it also seems less memory
hungry and faster.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francois Ouellette" <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, 06 March, 2005 13:54
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Installation of Fedora over SuSE


Well, there seem to be disk geometry issues with FC3, similar to SuSE.
I am collecting data and patches from the Fedora forums to find a fix but so
far the disk druid can't figure out my partitions!



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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 16:06:20 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:06:20 -0500
Subject: "screen" causes problems for non-screen tty's
In-Reply-To: <20050305221141.GB18650@m450>
References: <20050305221141.GB18650@m450>
Message-ID: <20050307160620.GC31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I'll avoid a long story, but I've got a bunch of stuff I want to do in
> different text console tty's.  I log on as a regular user for email,
> news, websurfing, etc.  I log on as a second special-purpose user for
> other stuff like programming, etc.  When I open up a separate tty for
> each of my tasks, 6 tty's is not enough.  I had to edit /etc/inittab
> like so to get enough consoles...
> 
> # TERMINALS
> c1:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty1 linux
> c2:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty2 linux
> c3:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty3 linux
> c4:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty4 linux
> c5:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty5 linux
> c6:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty6 linux
> c7:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty7 linux
> c8:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty8 linux
> c9:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty9 linux
> c10:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty10 linux
> 
>   The X-session is in tty11, and I can run a second one in tty12 if I
> get ambitious.
> 
>   Why am I not using screen, you ask?  Well, I tried, and everything
> worked OK *UNDER SCREEN*, e.g. vim and mc (Midnight Commander).  But...
> I started having problems in tty's that were *NOT* running under screen.
> Vim and mc started spewing out A's and B's rather than moving the cursor
> when I pressed the up and down arrows.  Apparently screen kicks *ALL*
> text consoles into vt100 mode *PERMANENTLY*, even different tty's
> running different users.  I have not been able to turn this off, other
> than by re-booting (bleagh).
> 
>   I tried "export TERM=vt100", and it "worked".  The keys did what
> they were "supposed to do".  The 4 grey arrow keys moved the cursor
> around properly, and all the keys on the numeric keypad generate weird
> escape sequences as per the vt100 spec... oops.  Losing the numeric
> keypad is *NOT* acceptable, so I gave up.  Anybody have any ideas on how
> to get screen to play nice?

What distribution and version are you running?  I have never personally
seen behaviour matching what you are seeing.  I run screen in some VTs
and not in others, dettach, come back later and reattach in another VT,
sometimes in an xterm, etc and never a problem.  Only problem I have
ever had is if I login as one user, su to another, run screen, then
screen doesn't work right.

I suspect a terminfo/curses configuration problem.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 16:09:00 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:09:00 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost> <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <20050307160900.GD31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 08:35:07AM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> I will know for sure how it goes later today. Thanks for those who replied.
> 
> BTW how do you compare SuSe with Fedora? One reason I am switching is that
> since Novell took over SuSE it has changed the distributions and now there
> is no longer a "free" personal desktop distribution.
> 
> Also it seems that there are a few exotic things in the SuSE bash that
> prevents me from installing the OpenSource Ingres r3 database software.
> 
> I will see how it goes with Fedora.

Well there is no free redhat anymore, no free suse, and probably no free
other things too.  FC is as far as I understand things, a public
beta/proving ground for RHEL, with some contributions by volunteers and
most of the decisions (if not all) made by redhat since they want stuff
to end up in a state where they can sell another RHEL version.

If you want something that won't ever stop giving you a free version, use
Debian.  They don't have a bottom line to worry about.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 16:11:13 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:11:13 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050306172053.GA2166-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050307161113.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

> Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you do
> that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.

Which always sounds like such a waste of time, when Debian has proven it
can be much simpler, when dependencies are done right.  I sure don't
have the patience or time to run slackware anymore.  I used to, many
many years ago.  Some people still enjoy that way of doing things
though, and I used to.  I don't anymore.

Lennart Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 16:23:08 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:23:08 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050307160900.GD31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c521de$475cd650$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <1110072857.2905.5.camel@localhost> <50904.207.188.88.71.1110079164.squirrel@207.188.88.71> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050307160900.GD31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <422C7FEC.8070608@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Well there is no free redhat anymore, no free suse

What happened to the SuSE ftp install over the internet?

http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/suse_linux/index.html
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 18:17:35 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:17:35 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050307161113.GE31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050307161113.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050307181735.GA2666@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 11:11:13AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> > dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you do
> > that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.
> 
> Which always sounds like such a waste of time, when Debian has proven it
> can be much simpler, when dependencies are done right.  I sure don't
> have the patience or time to run slackware anymore.  I used to, many
> many years ago.  Some people still enjoy that way of doing things
> though, and I used to.  I don't anymore.

Consider this situation.  Package XXX installs /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx script.
You modified it, so that it calls other scripts that you wrote, like
    [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1
    [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2
    [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3

So, with standard "install+restore" method, you need to backup 4 files
    /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx	-- original + your editing
    /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1	-- your script
    /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2	-- your script
    /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3	-- your script
as part of your normal incremental backup.  Then, after install, just
copy them back.

How will .deb/.rpm handle this situation, when upgrading in "in-place"?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 18:32:28 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:32:28 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050307181735.GA2666-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050307161113.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050307181735.GA2666@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050307183228.GF31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 01:17:35PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> Consider this situation.  Package XXX installs /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx script.
> You modified it, so that it calls other scripts that you wrote, like
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3
> 
> So, with standard "install+restore" method, you need to backup 4 files
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx	-- original + your editing
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1	-- your script
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2	-- your script
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3	-- your script
> as part of your normal incremental backup.  Then, after install, just
> copy them back.
> 
> How will .deb/.rpm handle this situation, when upgrading in "in-place"?

Files in /etc are conf files, and are not overwriten on upgrades.
Either (it will ask you) it will install the new one and rename the old
one to .dpkg_old, or it will leave the old one and install the new one
as .dpkg_new (that is the default).  It even lets you view a diff to
decide if the changes make sense or not before deciding.  You then go
fix it manually if any of the new things are things you need, or to add
your own changes to the new file.

And of course Debian doesn't have a /etc/rc.d dir either, as that isn't
part of the FHS standard.

Lennart Sorensen
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 18:57:02 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:57:02 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050307183228.GF31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <000401c52251$61d74380$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <BAYC1-PASMTP037465EB5188925F695A29B25E0@cez.ice> <200503061557.14880.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050306172053.GA2166@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050307161113.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050307181735.GA2666@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050307183228.GF31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050307185702.GA2791@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 01:32:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 01:17:35PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> > Consider this situation.  Package XXX installs /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx script.
> > You modified it, so that it calls other scripts that you wrote, like
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3
> > 
> > So, with standard "install+restore" method, you need to backup 4 files
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx	-- original + your editing
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1	-- your script
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2	-- your script
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3	-- your script
> > as part of your normal incremental backup.  Then, after install, just
> > copy them back.
> > 
> > How will .deb/.rpm handle this situation, when upgrading in "in-place"?
> 
> Files in /etc are conf files, and are not overwriten on upgrades.
> Either (it will ask you) it will install the new one and rename the old
> one to .dpkg_old, or it will leave the old one and install the new one
> as .dpkg_new (that is the default).

Slackware does that too.  So, we may be splitting a proverbial hair, here.
But, what I want to stress (now that I've got my helmet on) is that
"install+restore" will work for any distro.

> It even lets you view a diff to decide if the changes make sense or
> not before deciding.  You then go fix it manually if any of the new
> things are things you need, or to add your own changes to the new
> file.
> 
> And of course Debian doesn't have a /etc/rc.d dir either, as that
> isn't part of the FHS standard.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 19:54:50 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:54:50 -0500
Subject: ssmtp configuration question
In-Reply-To: <20050306012651.GD18650@m450>
References: <20050306012651.GD18650@m450>
Message-ID: <20050307195450.GA4293@free>

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 08:26:51PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   As the owner of a personal domain, I'm supposed to have working abuse
> and postmaster and domain-admin addresses, in addition to my regular
> personal email address.  Plus I have a couple of "throwaway" addresses
> for websites that *INSIST* on email addresses.  My remote ISP allows up
> to 10 separate email addresses at any one time, with separate email
> blocking rules for each one, so receiving those emails is not a problem.
> 
>   Properly replying to them is my problem.  All those addresses are
> eventually re-directed to different folders in my waltdnes account on my
> home machine, running Gentoo linux.  It seems that ssmtp blindly sets
> the "From:" and Return-Path to what it finds in /etc/passwd for the user
> currently logged in, regardless of what I type in in mutt.  The only
> override seems to be to "su -" and monkey with the revaliases file each
> time I want to send with a different "From:" address.   Rather kludgey
> to say the least.  Am I missing something glaringly obvious?

Hmm. I'm running mutt/ssmtp for my email with vim as the editor. All I
do is change the email header info in vim and that's the way it goes
out. If I mess it up it goes out messed up.

For example, I had to change the "From: " line from my default return
address to my "news" email address to have this email accepted by the
TLUG mail forwarder.

This is on a Slackware 10.1 system.

Hope this helps show that it can work the way you want it to.

Good Luck,
Allen

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From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 20:03:50 2005
From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:03:50 -0500
Subject: Linux text processing question
Message-ID: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51@outbox.allstream.net>

Any recommendations as to what text processing software one might use to take 
straight text and "spruce it up" for printing in an automated way.

enscript?
p_form2pdf?

bob
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 20:19:43 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:19:43 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <20050307181735.GA2666-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <20050307161113.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050307181735.GA2666@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200503071519.44199.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 7, 2005 13:17, William Park wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 11:11:13AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > > Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> > > dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you
> > > do that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.
> >
> > Which always sounds like such a waste of time, when Debian has proven it
> > can be much simpler, when dependencies are done right.  I sure don't
> > have the patience or time to run slackware anymore.  I used to, many
> > many years ago.  Some people still enjoy that way of doing things
> > though, and I used to.  I don't anymore.
>
> Consider this situation.  Package XXX installs /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx script.
> You modified it, so that it calls other scripts that you wrote, like
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2
>     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3
>
> So, with standard "install+restore" method, you need to backup 4 files
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx	-- original + your editing
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1	-- your script
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2	-- your script
>     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3	-- your script
> as part of your normal incremental backup.  Then, after install, just
> copy them back.
>
> How will .deb/.rpm handle this situation, when upgrading in "in-place"?

That is handled several ways in Mandrake. To minimize the need for modifying 
files related to Apache, for example, there is the webapps.d directory where 
you can put your custom Apache related conf files. So, indirection is one 
way. The other is similar to what Lennart mentioned with Debian, i.e., 
Mandrake will, depending on your preference, either save the old conf file as 
conf_file.rpmold and install the new one or save the new conf file as 
conf_file.rpmnew and preserve the old conf file in place.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 20:21:26 2005
From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:21:26 -0500
Subject: Linux text processing question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <b912425c050307122171d44214@mail.gmail.com>

latex?
-joseph-


On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:03:50 -0500, bob <fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Any recommendations as to what text processing software one might use to take
> straight text and "spruce it up" for printing in an automated way.
> 
> enscript?
> p_form2pdf?
> 
> bob
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 20:57:49 2005
From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:57:49 -0500
Subject: Linux text processing question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <20050307155749.279bf9ad@pino>

Hi Bob,

I use enscript with the Sylpheed mail reader with the following command:

  enscript  --media=Letter --no-header --word-wrap --margins=48:72:: -Email %s -f Courier at 9/9

Latex is also one of my favourites, but only for developing work (like
newsletters, or other documents), I haven't graduated to using it as
command line automated formatter.

Cheers,
Anthony

> Any recommendations as to what text processing software one might use to take 
> straight text and "spruce it up" for printing in an automated way.
> 
> enscript?
> p_form2pdf?
> 
> bob
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 21:41:47 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:41:47 -0500
Subject: Linux text processing question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <20050307214147.GG31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 03:03:50PM -0500, bob wrote:
> Any recommendations as to what text processing software one might use to take 
> straight text and "spruce it up" for printing in an automated way.
> 
> enscript?
> p_form2pdf?

a2ps? some creative script that adds LaTeX commands?

Lennart Sorensen
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 21:40:20 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:40:20 +0000
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503071519.44199.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <20050307181735.GA2666@node1.opengeometry.net> <200503071519.44199.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <200503072140.20927.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 7, 2005 08:19 pm, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> On March 7, 2005 13:17, William Park wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 11:11:13AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > > > Slackware doesn't have any dependency problem, because it doesn't do
> > > > dependency check at all. :-)  To upgrade, back up modified files (you
> > > > do that anyways), wipe clean, do full install, restore backed files.
> > >
> > > Which always sounds like such a waste of time, when Debian has proven
> > > it can be much simpler, when dependencies are done right.  I sure don't
> > > have the patience or time to run slackware anymore.  I used to, many
> > > many years ago.  Some people still enjoy that way of doing things
> > > though, and I used to.  I don't anymore.
> >
> > Consider this situation.  Package XXX installs /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx script.
> > You modified it, so that it calls other scripts that you wrote, like
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2
> >     [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 ] && . /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3
> >
> > So, with standard "install+restore" method, you need to backup 4 files
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx -- original + your editing
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-1 -- your script
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-2 -- your script
> >     /etc/rc.d/rc.xxx-3 -- your script
> > as part of your normal incremental backup.  Then, after install, just
> > copy them back.
> >
> > How will .deb/.rpm handle this situation, when upgrading in "in-place"?
>
> That is handled several ways in Mandrake. To minimize the need for
> modifying files related to Apache, for example, there is the webapps.d
> directory where you can put your custom Apache related conf files. So,
> indirection is one way. The other is similar to what Lennart mentioned with
> Debian, i.e., Mandrake will, depending on your preference, either save the
> old conf file as conf_file.rpmold and install the new one or save the new
> conf file as conf_file.rpmnew and preserve the old conf file in place.

Gentoo does this extremely well.

from the command line you run

bash-2.05b# find /etc -iname '._cfg????_*'

and it will return something like:

/etc/._cfg0000_inputrc
/etc/._cfg0000_rc.conf
/etc/._cfg0000_make.conf
/etc/._cfg0000_make.globals
/etc/._cfg0000_DIR_COLORS
/etc/conf.d/._cfg0000_net
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_consolefont
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_checkfs
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_domainname
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_keymaps
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_net.eth0
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_modules
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_clock
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_hdparm
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_bootmisc
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_halt.sh
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_serial
/etc/init.d/._cfg0000_checkroot
/etc/._cfg0000_services
/etc/._cfg0000_fstab
/etc/._cfg0000_group
/etc/._cfg0000_hosts
/etc/._cfg0000_issue
/etc/._cfg0000_dispatch-conf.conf
/etc/._cfg0000_shells

These are the config files that are in need of possible updates.

There is an app called etc-update that you can run after updates that will 
enable you to interactively update your config files or you can do it 
manually with diff.


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 21:49:40 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:49:40 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
Message-ID: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com>

 
  Okay, this isn't *totally* off-topic as it partially involves my
  Libranet box...can I assume that there's no way to share a Rogers
  hi-speed connection with another networked desktop without either:
  
  a) paying the $9.95 for a separate IP, or
  
  b) using one of the two networked computers (the other is a Mac) as
  a NAT gateway?

  I know the official Rogers policy, but thought I'd ask in case I'm
  in the dark about another solution [not that I'm suggesting or
  implying that I would ever wish to exploit the possibilities of my
  cable feed].

  Cheers,

  Matt

-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


 ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education?
 Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia.
 It comes straight out of the pit of hell.?
 - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 21:52:26 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:52:26 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <402780960.20050307164940-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050307215226.GH31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 04:49:40PM -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
>   Okay, this isn't *totally* off-topic as it partially involves my
>   Libranet box...can I assume that there's no way to share a Rogers
>   hi-speed connection with another networked desktop without either:
>   
>   a) paying the $9.95 for a separate IP, or
>   
>   b) using one of the two networked computers (the other is a Mac) as
>   a NAT gateway?
> 
>   I know the official Rogers policy, but thought I'd ask in case I'm
>   in the dark about another solution [not that I'm suggesting or
>   implying that I would ever wish to exploit the possibilities of my
>   cable feed].

Option b seems to be the most common.  Some people buy a small router
box to do the sharing.  I personally prefer using a linux box as the
router/firewall.  Very few people want to pay for option a since it
doesn't give you a whole lot more, unless you like playing games under
windows on the internet and want two people able to play any game what
so ever at the same time in which case two IPs are actually useful.
Rather pricy for an IP though given they don't give you any extra speed
or bandwidth as far as I know.

Lennart Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 21:58:20 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 16:58:20 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <402780960.20050307164940-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>

Matt Cahill wrote:
>  
>   Okay, this isn't *totally* off-topic as it partially involves my
>   Libranet box...can I assume that there's no way to share a Rogers
>   hi-speed connection with another networked desktop without either:
>   
>   a) paying the $9.95 for a separate IP, or
>   
>   b) using one of the two networked computers (the other is a Mac) as
>   a NAT gateway?
> 
>   I know the official Rogers policy, but thought I'd ask in case I'm
>   in the dark about another solution [not that I'm suggesting or
>   implying that I would ever wish to exploit the possibilities of my
>   cable feed].

You can use one of those cheap firewall/router boxes.

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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:03:59 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:03:59 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <422CCE7C.2070408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>


Monday, March 7, 2005, 4:58:20 PM, you wrote:

JK> Matt Cahill wrote:
>>  
>>   Okay, this isn't *totally* off-topic as it partially involves my
>>   Libranet box...can I assume that there's no way to share a Rogers
>>   hi-speed connection with another networked desktop without either:
>>   
>>   a) paying the $9.95 for a separate IP, or
>>   
>>   b) using one of the two networked computers (the other is a Mac) as
>>   a NAT gateway?
>> 
>>   I know the official Rogers policy, but thought I'd ask in case I'm
>>   in the dark about another solution [not that I'm suggesting or
>>   implying that I would ever wish to exploit the possibilities of my
>>   cable feed].

JK> You can use one of those cheap firewall/router boxes.



 James (& Lennart),

   This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
   Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
   for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
   you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
   on the router before this works?

   M



-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


"It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise
 one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy.
 It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience."
 - A. Crowley

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:11:17 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:11:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <175491557.20050307170359-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307171018.26340D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Matt Cahill wrote:
> JK> You can use one of those cheap firewall/router boxes.
> 
>    This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?

These days, even the cheap boxes can do masquerading, so that it all looks
like one computer.  Some of them may even do it by default.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:11:01 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:11:01 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <175491557.20050307170359-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com>
	 <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>  <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1110233461.14673.3.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2005-03-07 at 17:03 -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
> This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
>    for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
>    you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
>    on the router before this works?
> 

With Rogers, what you do is spoof the mac address of the nic that is
connected presently on the outgoing interface of the router. Rogers in
turn will only be able to see the router and not the various connections
behind it.

John

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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:11:55 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:11:55 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <175491557.20050307170359-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>
	 <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105030714118a642cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:03:59 -0500, Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Monday, March 7, 2005, 4:58:20 PM, you wrote:
> 
> JK> Matt Cahill wrote:
> >>
> >>   Okay, this isn't *totally* off-topic as it partially involves my
> >>   Libranet box...can I assume that there's no way to share a Rogers
> >>   hi-speed connection with another networked desktop without either:
> >>
> >>   a) paying the $9.95 for a separate IP, or
> >>
> >>   b) using one of the two networked computers (the other is a Mac) as
> >>   a NAT gateway?
> >>
> >>   I know the official Rogers policy, but thought I'd ask in case I'm
> >>   in the dark about another solution [not that I'm suggesting or
> >>   implying that I would ever wish to exploit the possibilities of my
> >>   cable feed].
> 
> JK> You can use one of those cheap firewall/router boxes.
> 
>  James (& Lennart),
> 
>    This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
>    for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
>    you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
>    on the router before this works?

I don't know about Rogers, but Sympatico appears to be fine -- we have
five or six computers on our network, all going through a wonderful
Netgear firewall/router that cost us about $30 after rebate. Works
like a champ.

I think Rogers is much more concerned about people going over their
60G monthly cap (or whatever it was). If you're doing normal browsing
and E-Mail, I'm sure that they don't care if it's one computer or
several.

Alex

ps And I'm sure you *can* set up a box to be your firewall router, but
I knew that if I tried to go that route, my head would explode with
all of the stuff I'd have to do. That, compared to a $30 cost, made
buying a cheap router a no-brainer.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:11:52 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:11:52 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <175491557.20050307170359-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <422CD1A8.3050405@rogers.com>

Matt Cahill wrote:

>    This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
>    for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
>    you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
>    on the router before this works?

No.  There is only one mac address visible, which is that of the 
firewall/router.  In fact, with many of them, you can clone the mac 
address of a computer.  There's very little that needs to be set up in 
those boxes.  You just configure it to use dhcp to get the settings and 
also to set up the local computers.  If you wish, you can use static 
address on the local net.

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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 22:22:36 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:22:36 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <1110233461.14673.3.camel@localhost>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com>
 <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>  <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
 <1110233461.14673.3.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <725624555.20050307172236@rogers.com>


Monday, March 7, 2005, 5:11:01 PM, you wrote:

JM> On Mon, 2005-03-07 at 17:03 -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
>> This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
>>    for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
>>    you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
>>    on the router before this works?
>> 

JM> With Rogers, what you do is spoof the mac address of the nic that is
JM> connected presently on the outgoing interface of the router. Rogers in
JM> turn will only be able to see the router and not the various connections
JM> behind it.

JM> John

  Thanks for all of the feedback guys - it seems to make a lot of
  sense, but I had to ask as my wife-to-be works at home and I
  couldn't afford to assume that Rogers would simply work with a
  router-as-gateway for both of us.  Much appreciated.

  Cheers,

  Matt


-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it.
 - Dorothy Parker

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 23:13:14 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:13:14 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Hi all,

I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:

 	#!/usr/bin/env echo foo

and is set +x and executes, will print:

 	/usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory

huh?

tia,
Peter

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From jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar  7 23:39:43 2005
From: jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 18:39:43 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:
>
>     #!/usr/bin/env echo foo
>
> and is set +x and executes, will print:
>
>     /usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory
>
> huh?
>
> tia,
> Peter
>
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

I tried it and got the same result, but when I put perl instead of echo 
foo.  It worked.  I am assuming that the command not found is echo (an 
internal shell command) and therefore not in the path.
Grant Cullen
JADALL Consulting Ltd.
grant.cullen-yMeuRWKn1UT3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
416-706-4447

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From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 00:07:02 2005
From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:07:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: env bug ?
Message-ID: <200503080007.j28072l4001150@localhost.generalconcepts.com>

| I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:
| 
|     #!/usr/bin/env echo foo
|
| and is set +x and executes, will print:
|
|     /usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory

Hmmm - there seems to be something different in the way Linux does #!
lines than one might expect.  On my systems
    #!/usr/bin/env echo foo
in an executable file called /tmp/blah, when run via "/tmp/blah",
is equivalent to this typed at the shell

Linux:       /usr/bin/env "echo foo" /tmp/blah
FreeBSD:     /usr/bin/env echo foo /tmp/blah
Solaris 5.7  /usr/bin/env echo /tmp/blah


I'll claim that Linux is doing the unexpected, I think Solaris is
doing to "historical" behaviour, and FreeBSD is what one would
normally expect.

env is behaving correctly, based on the arguments it is given.
Some (including me) might claim that the kernel is invoking env
incorrectly.


| I tried it and got the same result, but when I put perl instead of echo 
| foo.  It worked.  I am assuming that the command not found is echo (an 
| internal shell command) and therefore not in the path.

Hmmm, for me
    #!/usr/bin/perl echo foo
results in
    Can't open perl script "echo foo": No such file or directory
which is consistent with the observed behaviour with "env".


Ths echo command is typically in the PATH (unless your PATH
inexplicably excludes /bin.  The command not found in the original
question was "echo foo" i.e. there was no executable file called
"echo foo" in the PATH (not surprisingly).


John
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 00:50:16 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:50:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <200503080007.j28072l4001150-bi+AKbBUZKYsbE7Vo+MiNSGuMlDgniV8mpATvIKMPHk@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503080007.j28072l4001150@localhost.generalconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307194129.28575A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, John Sellens wrote:
> |     #!/usr/bin/env echo foo
> |     /usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory
> 
> Hmmm - there seems to be something different in the way Linux does #!
> lines than one might expect...

A very careful reading of the execve(2) manpage (on a somewhat old Red
Hat) indicates that the contents of the #! line are #!, the full pathname
of an interpreter, and optionally an argument.  Note, "argument", singular
not plural.  So all the remaining text on the line is being taken as *one*
argument.

This is actually quite a common restriction; supplying more than one
argument on the #! line has never been very portable. 

> env is behaving correctly, based on the arguments it is given.

I concur.

> Some (including me) might claim that the kernel is invoking env
> incorrectly.

I wouldn't go that far... quite.  I would say that the kernel is handling
an out-of-spec situation rather ungracefully.  It isn't actually wrong but
really ought to do better.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 01:54:15 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:54:15 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <f9870c0105030714118a642cb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <f9870c0105030714118a642cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050308015415.GA4288@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 05:11:55PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> ps And I'm sure you *can* set up a box to be your firewall router, but
> I knew that if I tried to go that route, my head would explode with
> all of the stuff I'd have to do. That, compared to a $30 cost, made
> buying a cheap router a no-brainer.

Using a cheap Linux box as a router made sense 7 or 8 years ago
- I had a 486 doing that job for many years - but nowadays it
isn't worth the bother.  When the 486 died 3 or 4 years ago, I
had already replaced it with router capability that was embedded
in the ADSL "modem" that I got when I switched from Sympatico
(when they spontaneously started blocking incoming SMTP).

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 01:10:33 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:10:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <20050308015415.GA4288-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308015415.GA4288@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:
> Using a cheap Linux box as a router made sense 7 or 8 years ago
> - I had a 486 doing that job for many years - but nowadays it
> isn't worth the bother.

Unless, of course, you're not sure you can trust the cheap-router vendor.
There have been some unpleasant bugs in some of those boxes.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 01:24:57 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:24:57 -0500
Subject: "screen" causes problems for non-screen tty's
In-Reply-To: <20050307160620.GC31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050305221141.GB18650@m450> <20050307160620.GC31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050308012457.GB31779@waltdnes.org>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 11:06:20AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote

> What distribution and version are you running?

Linux i686 2.6.10-gentoo-r6

> Only problem I have ever had is if I login as one user, su to another,
> run screen, then screen doesn't work right.

  The following are all in real textmode.  I logged in as "waltdnes" on
tty1.  {ALT-F4} to tty4 where I logged in as "user2" and started screen.
{ALT-F1} takes me back to tty1.  Try running vim or mc on tty1.  That's
where I run into problems.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 01:36:36 2005
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:36:36 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42276D94.7030201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200503072036.36825.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Thursday 03 March 2005 15:03, Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> I wonder if Australia suffers from the same 'no local experience' bias
> against immigrant workers that Canada does? 

I've never heard of anyone getting knocked back for that reason.  I have just 
moved to Toronto from Australia.

Actually, I haven't had that problem here either though, but maybe they reject 
my resume on that basis, but don't tell me so.

I am currently working for the Ontario government (iServ) and from my 
colleagues,  I gather they don't have that problem either.

> The professional body in 
> Ontario, equivalent to the one I was a member of in the UK, takes great
> delight in having *no* reciprocal agreement with foreign equivalents.

Interesting.

Rgds,

David
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From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 01:38:04 2005
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:38:04 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <42278265.9070507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503031437110.11717@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42276D94.7030201@sympatico.ca> <42278265.9070507@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200503072038.04309.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Thursday 03 March 2005 16:32, James Knott wrote:
> Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> > [ and anyway, could you live somewhere where a meat pie dropped in a
> > bowl of pea soup is seem as a cultural icon?
> > <http://www.sa.nationaltrust.org.au/heritage_icons_2003.htm#Pie> ;-) ]
>
> And of course, since it's from Australia, the pie is upside down.  ;-)


It's an Adelaide thing... There are many Australian jokes about Adelaidians... 
I know, I grew up there before I moved to Melbourne!

Rgds,

David
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 02:35:14 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:35:14 -0500
Subject: ssmtp configuration question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195450.GA4293@free>
References: <20050306012651.GD18650@m450> <20050307195450.GA4293@free>
Message-ID: <20050308023513.GB32185@waltdnes.org>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 02:54:50PM -0500, Allen Taylor wrote

> Hmm. I'm running mutt/ssmtp for my email with vim as the editor.

  *EXACTLY* my configuration.  Here are the relevant parts of ssmtp.conf

mailhub=smtp.istop.com
rewriteDomain=waltdnes.org

  Could you please email me your .muttrc offline... minus your POP
logon password, of course<g>?  I can't seem to do anything much beyond
revaliases.  The top line of this email's headers is...
"From: Walter <email2-j30rFtiH+aqnzT0iUeSTvQ at public.gmane.org>" (without the quotes).  That's
not what it'll be when it gets mailed.  Experimenting on my "user2"
account always ended up with user2-SLHPyeZ9y/tTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org

  I suppose I could create user accounts on my machine to match my email
addresses.  With the -u and -o options, useradd can create duplicate
userids.  Presumably, these duplicate IDs would be able to go into my
waltdnes account (if they have the same userid) and run mutt.  Not quite
as bad as "su -", but still clunky.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 02:47:57 2005
From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (J. Qiang Li)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:47:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: disk space weirdness
Message-ID: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I am having a weird problem. When i moved one huge file under / parition to /var partition, I saw
the /var partition usage increased to the expected size and / partition usage still remains the
same.
I am pretty sure the file is not in / anymore and yet the usage for / don't change. What is going
on ?

here is the df output, as u can see / and /var are different partition :

[root at extreme /]# df -k
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda7              1035660    862312    120740  88% /
/dev/sda1               101086      7934     87933   9% /boot
/dev/sda5              6554184     49372   6171868   1% /data
none                    517800         0    517800   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda8              3154588   1206136   1788208  41% /home
/dev/sda2             40472588  22818308  15598364  60% /usr
/dev/sda3             17172560   3543928  12756304  22% /var


thanks,

James.


	
		
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From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 03:05:13 2005
From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:05:13 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308015415.GA4288@lupus.perlwolf.com>
	 <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4386c5b205030719055afb85c6@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Matt,
I see you've gotten lots of feedback already, but for what it's worth
I'm a Rogers customer and I have a USR router set up, with five
computers connected to it. No problems, and Rogers only sees the
router when they poke their nosy noses past the modem. I've confirmed
that a couple times when I talk to them on the phone.

Cheers,
Aaron.


On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:10:33 -0500 (EST), Henry Spencer
<henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:
> > Using a cheap Linux box as a router made sense 7 or 8 years ago
> > - I had a 486 doing that job for many years - but nowadays it
> > isn't worth the bother.
> 
> Unless, of course, you're not sure you can trust the cheap-router vendor.
> There have been some unpleasant bugs in some of those boxes.
> 
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org
> 
> --
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 03:15:15 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:15:15 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b205030719055afb85c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308015415.GA4288@lupus.perlwolf.com> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000@spsystems.net> <4386c5b205030719055afb85c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200503072215.15864.m-cahill@rogers.com>

On March 7, 2005 10:05 pm, Aaron Vegh wrote:
> Hey Matt,
> I see you've gotten lots of feedback already, but for what it's worth
> I'm a Rogers customer and I have a USR router set up, with five
> computers connected to it. No problems, and Rogers only sees the
> router when they poke their nosy noses past the modem. I've confirmed
> that a couple times when I talk to them on the phone.
>
> Cheers,
> Aaron.

  Very cool - always glad to have good news reinforced :)

  Thanks,

Matt

-- 
Matt Cahill
             m dash cahill at rogers dot com
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From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 03:19:59 2005
From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (J. Qiang Li)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:19:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: solved - Re: disk space weirdness
Message-ID: <20050308031959.73158.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>

I did a losf | grep ssl_report and it turned out that httpd is using this file and holding it
back. restarting httpd solved the problem.

sorry for the trouble.

James.



	
		
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Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web 
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:08:01 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:08:01 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <175491557.20050307170359-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050308160801.GI31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 05:03:59PM -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
>  James (& Lennart),
> 
>    This was my primary thought, but it occurred to me - wouldn't
>    Rogers notice if both computers were on at the same time?  Sorry
>    for my naivety, but I didn't think it was *that* simple (!)  Or are
>    you suggesting that there would need to be some manual settings put
>    on the router before this works?

No, since they can't tell the difference between you running two web
browsers on one computer or one web browser on each of two computers.
The connections will be identical.

For rogers take on it see here:
http://www.rogershelp.com/yahoo/connection/homenetworking/index.html

They seem very much to think a home router or connection sharing is just
fine, but are willing to sell you more IPs if you ahve an application
that requries each machine to have its own real IP.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:09:31 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:09:31 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <1110233461.14673.3.camel@localhost>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <1110233461.14673.3.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20050308160931.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 05:11:01PM -0500, John McGregor wrote:
> With Rogers, what you do is spoof the mac address of the nic that is
> connected presently on the outgoing interface of the router. Rogers in
> turn will only be able to see the router and not the various connections
> behind it.

No need to do that.  They don't care.  You do however on some of the
cablemodem models have to power the modem off for about 10 or 15
minutes before it will connect to a new network card/MAC.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:12:49 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:12:49 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <f9870c0105030714118a642cb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <f9870c0105030714118a642cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050308161249.GK31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 05:11:55PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> I don't know about Rogers, but Sympatico appears to be fine -- we have
> five or six computers on our network, all going through a wonderful
> Netgear firewall/router that cost us about $30 after rebate. Works
> like a champ.
> 
> I think Rogers is much more concerned about people going over their
> 60G monthly cap (or whatever it was). If you're doing normal browsing
> and E-Mail, I'm sure that they don't care if it's one computer or
> several.

That was my thought for my parents too, but unfortunately the stupid
linksys router crashes every few days and has to be power cycled.  That
is NOT why I spent money on that stupid box.  At least the 486 linux box
only had trouble with power failures.  I have a USR8054 at home for
wireless access, which is temporarily doing the cable modem sharing too,
and it too crashes about once a week or so loosing the wireless network
and needing a power cycle.  I wish one of these companies could just
make something that didn't crash regularly.  Oh and yes I have updated
the firmware on both, many times.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:18:11 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:18:11 -0500
Subject: "screen" causes problems for non-screen tty's
In-Reply-To: <20050308012457.GB31779-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050305221141.GB18650@m450> <20050307160620.GC31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050308012457.GB31779@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20050308161811.GL31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 08:24:57PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> Linux i686 2.6.10-gentoo-r6

Well there may be a bug in their version of
screen/mv/vim/terminfo/ncurses or in how one of those is built.  I have
no problem with 2.6.10-1-k7 on Debian Sarge.

>   The following are all in real textmode.  I logged in as "waltdnes" on
> tty1.  {ALT-F4} to tty4 where I logged in as "user2" and started screen.
> {ALT-F1} takes me back to tty1.  Try running vim or mc on tty1.  That's
> where I run into problems.

Well I have no problem doing that here.  It certainly can work, if built
right using non buggy versions.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:21:27 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:21:27 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050308162127.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 01:13:14AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:
> 
> 	#!/usr/bin/env echo foo
> 
> and is set +x and executes, will print:
> 
> 	/usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory

Do you have /bin/echo or do you only have the shell built in echo (bash
has echo built in so it doesn't use /bin/echo normally, while env does
use the real program from the PATH).

Quite likely you do not have an echo _command_ at all then.

/usr/bin/env echo foo, does work here.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:24:26 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:24:26 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307194129.28575A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503080007.j28072l4001150@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307194129.28575A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050308162426.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 07:50:16PM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> A very careful reading of the execve(2) manpage (on a somewhat old Red
> Hat) indicates that the contents of the #! line are #!, the full pathname
> of an interpreter, and optionally an argument.  Note, "argument", singular
> not plural.  So all the remaining text on the line is being taken as *one*
> argument.
> 
> This is actually quite a common restriction; supplying more than one
> argument on the #! line has never been very portable. 

I guess that is why things like perl have their own way to go back and
reread the first line of the script to pick up any missed arguments.

> I concur.
> 
> I wouldn't go that far... quite.  I would say that the kernel is handling
> an out-of-spec situation rather ungracefully.  It isn't actually wrong but
> really ought to do better.

It works on my kernel, so I suspect the system in question simply
doens't have a real program called echo in the path.  Most people
wouldn't notice since bash includes a shell built in for echo.

Lennart Sorensen
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:38:00 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:38:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <20050308162426.GN31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308162426.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308113517.9273G-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > I wouldn't go that far... quite.  I would say that the kernel is handling
> > an out-of-spec situation rather ungracefully.  It isn't actually wrong but
> > really ought to do better.
> 
> It works on my kernel, so I suspect the system in question simply
> doens't have a real program called echo in the path.

Nope.  I duplicated the problem on a system which quite definitely does
have /bin/echo.  "/usr/bin/env echo foo" works, but putting the same thing
in the #! line doesn't.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:44:31 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308113517.9273G-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308162426.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308113517.9273G-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050308164431.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 11:38:00AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> Nope.  I duplicated the problem on a system which quite definitely does
> have /bin/echo.  "/usr/bin/env echo foo" works, but putting the same thing
> in the #! line doesn't.

Hmm, I failed to realize that it was ONLY when done in a file on the #!
that it failed.  You are right it does fail there and yes it appears
that it treats 'echo foo' as a single parameter.  I wonder if env has
some options to tell it to parse its single argument differently, given
it is being passed everything on the #! line as one argument, and then
the filename as the second argument.

Of course if it HAD split echo and foo as two arguments the result would
have been to print out foo and the filename of the script, which is
probably also not what was desired, so it is probably not the right way
to use env in the first place.

Lennart Sorensen
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 16:48:05 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:48:05 -0500
Subject: Linux text processing question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050307195239.AFF3D5F51@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <422DD745.8000302@sympatico.ca>

bob wrote:

>Any recommendations as to what text processing software one might use to take 
>straight text and "spruce it up" for printing in an automated way.
>
>enscript?
>p_form2pdf?
>  
>

I really like AFT (almost free text) with simple text markup will output
html, latex, rtf and .. i forget what else :-)
djp

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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 17:56:37 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:56:37 +0000
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
Message-ID: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

http://www.goosee.com/puppy/multi-puppy.htm

This is an interesting concept.

-snip-

The world's first live CD that allows users to save their data back to the CD 
has been born. It is called Puppy Linux and the first experimental alpha 
release is now available for download and testing: "So, how does it work? 
What you have to do is boot the PC with the multi-session CD inserted in the 
CD-burner drive -- thus, Puppy automatically knows which drive is the 
CD-burner, in case you have more than one CD/DVD drive. Then you use Puppy in 
the normal way. At shutdown, all the changed files in your home directory are 
saved back to CD. That's it. Next time you boot, all the personal files are 
restored."

-snip-

They are recommending a CDR not CDRW so I could see the disk getting full 
eventually, but still an interesting conept none the less.

For those of you who want to play with this - 52 MB
ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-1.0.0alpha/puppy-1.0.0alpha-firefox-multisession.iso


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From jason-2F8E0OLjuh154TAoqtyWWQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 19:15:27 2005
From: jason-2F8E0OLjuh154TAoqtyWWQ at public.gmane.org (Jason Slaughter)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:15:27 -0500
Subject: Colocation Experiences
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0503011901220.30069@pluto.iclei.org>	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503011940040.30424@mimosa.opentrend.net> <4386c5b2050301182079081c5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <422DF9CF.2020401@slaughter.com>


>I was also looking at managed hosting, where you don't have to buy the
>box. But it's more expensive. On the other hand, Virtual Private
>Hosting looks kind of sexy: prices well under $50/mth, and full root
>access. You're sharing the same box with other VPH customers, but it
>seems to be a secure environment.
>

If you are considering a Virtual Private Server, I can strongly 
recomment Linode: http://www.linode.com . I've tried a few VPS 
suppliers, and Linode is definitely the best so far (and only marginally 
more expensive than the lousy providers). They have a web interface that 
will let you reboot, resize partitions, and add bandwidth/ram/disk space 
on the fly. They also have strict provisions in place to ensure that 
somebody else on the same box isn't chewing up all the disk bandwidth, 
which is the reason I had to leave my last VPS provider.

A VPS is the best deal you can get if you can live without having the 
resources of an entire dedicated server.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 18:17:44 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:17:44 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <200503081756.37502.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 05:56:37PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> The world's first live CD that allows users to save their data back to the CD 
> has been born. It is called Puppy Linux and the first experimental alpha 
> release is now available for download and testing: "So, how does it work? 
> What you have to do is boot the PC with the multi-session CD inserted in the 
> CD-burner drive -- thus, Puppy automatically knows which drive is the 
> CD-burner, in case you have more than one CD/DVD drive. Then you use Puppy in 
> the normal way. At shutdown, all the changed files in your home directory are 
> saved back to CD. That's it. Next time you boot, all the personal files are 
> restored."
> 
> -snip-
> 
> They are recommending a CDR not CDRW so I could see the disk getting full 
> eventually, but still an interesting conept none the less.
> 
> For those of you who want to play with this - 52 MB
> ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-1.0.0alpha/puppy-1.0.0alpha-firefox-multisession.iso

Now if they were really smart they would require a CDRW and they would
simply erase the last session and then append a new session with the
updated /home each time.  Then as long as your data will fit on the
disc, you get about 1000 rewrites of the CD.  but I guess they don't do
last session erase given they want to support CDR.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:10:16 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:10:16 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>

So now everyone has to go out and buy a DVD burner so that someone updates 
the distro or creates a new one to include DVD-RAM support. Anyone use(d) 
RAM discs with Linux?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: live-cd distro that writes to cd


> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 05:56:37PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
>> The world's first live CD that allows users to save their data back to 
>> the CD
>> has been born. It is called Puppy Linux and the first experimental alpha
>> release is now available for download and testing: "So, how does it work?
>> What you have to do is boot the PC with the multi-session CD inserted in 
>> the
>> CD-burner drive -- thus, Puppy automatically knows which drive is the
>> CD-burner, in case you have more than one CD/DVD drive. Then you use 
>> Puppy in
>> the normal way. At shutdown, all the changed files in your home directory 
>> are
>> saved back to CD. That's it. Next time you boot, all the personal files 
>> are
>> restored."
>>
>> -snip-
>>
>> They are recommending a CDR not CDRW so I could see the disk getting full
>> eventually, but still an interesting conept none the less.
>>
>> For those of you who want to play with this - 52 MB
>> ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/puppylinux/puppy-1.0.0alpha/puppy-1.0.0alpha-firefox-multisession.iso
>
> Now if they were really smart they would require a CDRW and they would
> simply erase the last session and then append a new session with the
> updated /home each time.  Then as long as your data will fit on the
> disc, you get about 1000 rewrites of the CD.  but I guess they don't do
> last session erase given they want to support CDR.
>
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 18:18:40 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:18:40 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050308101130994a8c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <f9870c0105030714118a642cb@mail.gmail.com> <20050308161249.GK31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b2050308101130994a8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050308181840.GQ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 01:11:52PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote:
> My USR8054 was a bee-awtch to set up (I had to switch off the DHCP
> server and just manually assign the IPs) but it's been rock-solid ever
> since. I think I've cycled it just a couple times over the past six
> months that I've had it.
> 
> Maybe you have a bum unit?

Not sure.  My DHCP has never had a problem.  I am running the 1.6x beta
firmware which has WPA support.

Lennart Sorensen
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:25:40 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:25:40 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
Message-ID: <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:10:16PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote:
> So now everyone has to go out and buy a DVD burner so that someone
> updates the distro or creates a new one to include DVD-RAM support.
> Anyone use(d) RAM discs with Linux?

I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does DVD
offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:33:37 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:33:37 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050308202540.GA2078-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
 <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
 <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com>


Tuesday, March 8, 2005, 3:25:40 PM, you wrote:

WP> I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does DVD
WP> offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?

A free frisbee (or optionally, a throwing star) :)

Seriously, it's a good point. I wonder if DVD *isn't* the bally-hoo'd
future standard it's cracked-up to be, what with flash-drive prices
dropping as their storage potential exponentially increases.

M


-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


"It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise
 one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy.
 It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience."
 - A. Crowley

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From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:38:24 2005
From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:38:24 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <20050308160801.GI31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <20050308160801.GI31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <422E0D40.3030304@pobox.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>No, since they can't tell the difference between you running two web
>browsers on one computer or one web browser on each of two computers.
>The connections will be identical.
>  
>

Actually, they could if they wanted to. I remember a paper from a few 
years ago describing how to analyze traffic from a single IP to 
determine exactly how many machines were behind it.

I remember OpenBSD introduced some special randomization features into 
their TCP/IP stack and/or firewall to try to defeat this analysis. IIRC, 
the randomization isn't on by default; you have to enable it in your 
firewall rules.

If it's true that the consumer electronics routers crash at least every 
few months, I think it's safe to assume that they're of such low quality 
that they also don't implement this randomization.

(That's the big reason to run the 486 firewall -- there are 
pre-configured firewalls-on-a-floppy-or-cd which you stick in the drive, 
turn the box on, and reboot maybe once a year to put in a disc with a 
newer release.)
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:40:56 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:40:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <762205500.20050308153337-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308153409.12995A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Matt Cahill wrote:
> Seriously, it's a good point. I wonder if DVD *isn't* the bally-hoo'd
> future standard it's cracked-up to be, what with flash-drive prices
> dropping as their storage potential exponentially increases.

People won't soon treat flash drives as throwaways.  For mass software
distribution, or for making throwaway copies of data to pass to other
people or to archive, DVD still has a role to play.  But it's not likely
to see much use as a *working* storage medium -- it's too small and too
inflexible by comparison. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:47:46 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:47:46 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
Message-ID: <20050308204746.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:10:16PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote:
> So now everyone has to go out and buy a DVD burner so that someone updates 
> the distro or creates a new one to include DVD-RAM support. Anyone use(d) 
> RAM discs with Linux?

Yeah I have used UDF formated DVD-RAM discs with linux.  You mount them,
read them, write them, etc, as any other removeable media (floppy, zip,
flash, etc), and well they are a bit slow but work fine.  no special cd
writing software required.

Lennart Sorensen
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:48:14 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:48:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <422E0D40.3030304-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <422E0D40.3030304@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308154520.12995B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Andrej Marjan wrote:
> >No, since they can't tell the difference between you running two web
> >browsers on one computer or one web browser on each of two computers.
> 
> Actually, they could if they wanted to. I remember a paper from a few 
> years ago describing how to analyze traffic from a single IP to 
> determine exactly how many machines were behind it.

This probably relies on something like patterns in the initial sequence
numbers or port numbers of new connections... but there are good reasons
to randomize those a bit anyway, and modern systems increasingly do. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:49:10 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050308202540.GA2078-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047> <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050308204910.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:25:40PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does DVD
> offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?

Lower cost (not counting the drive), although at the current rate the
prices of flash are dropping, perhaps DVD-RAM media will loose the price
advantage rather soon.  It also seems panasonic is the only serious
backer of DVD-RAM.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:51:48 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:51:48 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <762205500.20050308153337-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047> <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net> <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050308205148.GT31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:33:37PM -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
> A free frisbee (or optionally, a throwing star) :)
> 
> Seriously, it's a good point. I wonder if DVD *isn't* the bally-hoo'd
> future standard it's cracked-up to be, what with flash-drive prices
> dropping as their storage potential exponentially increases.

Well pure DVD-R/DVD+R is an awful lot cheaper than flash of the same
capacity, and has many uses flash doesn't (like say making a movie your
DVD player can play).  There is a difference betwen $1.00 and $500 for
4GB storage.  I suspect the DVD reads (and possibly writes) faster than
the flash drive too, although probably not much.  DVD-RAM media on the
other hand is a lot more than DVD-R media, although it is reusable.  It
is also quite a bit more expensive than DVD+RW and DVD-RW in my
experience.

Lennart Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 20:51:17 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:51:17 -0500
Subject: OT:  sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <422E0D40.3030304-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com> <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com> <20050308160801.GI31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <422E0D40.3030304@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <422E1045.5070901@rogers.com>

Andrej Marjan wrote:
> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
>> No, since they can't tell the difference between you running two web
>> browsers on one computer or one web browser on each of two computers.
>> The connections will be identical.
>>  
>>
> 
> Actually, they could if they wanted to. I remember a paper from a few 
> years ago describing how to analyze traffic from a single IP to 
> determine exactly how many machines were behind it.
> 
> I remember OpenBSD introduced some special randomization features into 
> their TCP/IP stack and/or firewall to try to defeat this analysis. IIRC, 
> the randomization isn't on by default; you have to enable it in your 
> firewall rules.
> 
> If it's true that the consumer electronics routers crash at least every 
> few months, I think it's safe to assume that they're of such low quality 
> that they also don't implement this randomization.
> 
> (That's the big reason to run the 486 firewall -- there are 
> pre-configured firewalls-on-a-floppy-or-cd which you stick in the drive, 
> turn the box on, and reboot maybe once a year to put in a disc with a 
> newer release.)

As was pointed out in another message, Rogers doesn't mind people using 
boxes.  They even provide some info on them.

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From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 18:11:52 2005
From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:11:52 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <20050308161249.GK31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <402780960.20050307164940@rogers.com> <422CCE7C.2070408@rogers.com>
	 <175491557.20050307170359@rogers.com>
	 <f9870c0105030714118a642cb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050308161249.GK31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4386c5b2050308101130994a8c@mail.gmail.com>

My USR8054 was a bee-awtch to set up (I had to switch off the DHCP
server and just manually assign the IPs) but it's been rock-solid ever
since. I think I've cycled it just a couple times over the past six
months that I've had it.

Maybe you have a bum unit?

> I have a USR8054 at home for
> wireless access, which is temporarily doing the cable modem sharing too,
> and it too crashes about once a week or so loosing the wireless network
> and needing a power cycle.  I wish one of these companies could just
> make something that didn't crash regularly.  Oh and yes I have updated
> the firmware on both, many times.
>
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From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 21:11:15 2005
From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:11:15 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <422CE63F.1050106-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com>
Message-ID: <422E14F3.7090308@pobox.com>

Grant Cullen wrote:

> I tried it and got the same result, but when I put perl instead of 
> echo foo.  It worked.  I am assuming that the command not found is 
> echo (an internal shell command) and therefore not in the path.
> Grant Cullen
> JADALL Consulting Ltd.
> grant.cullen-yMeuRWKn1UT3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
> 416-706-4447


amarjan at gondolin:~$ cat ./z
#!/usr/bin/env perl foo
amarjan at gondolin:~$ ./z
/usr/bin/env: perl foo: No such file or directory

Doesn't work any better than echo, with the Debian 2.6.10 kernel. ;)
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 21:34:49 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:34:49 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <422E14F3.7090308-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com> <422E14F3.7090308@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20050308213449.GA2183@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 04:11:15PM -0500, Andrej Marjan wrote:
> Grant Cullen wrote:
> 
> >I tried it and got the same result, but when I put perl instead of 
> >echo foo.  It worked.  I am assuming that the command not found is 
> >echo (an internal shell command) and therefore not in the path.
> >Grant Cullen
> >JADALL Consulting Ltd.
> >grant.cullen-yMeuRWKn1UT3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
> >416-706-4447
> 
> 
> amarjan at gondolin:~$ cat ./z
> #!/usr/bin/env perl foo
> amarjan at gondolin:~$ ./z
> /usr/bin/env: perl foo: No such file or directory
> 
> Doesn't work any better than echo, with the Debian 2.6.10 kernel. ;)

I'm getting same result for all shells (Bash, Ksh, Zsh, Ash) on my
system.  Who's responsible for interpreting #! line?  Kernel or shell?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 21:39:39 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:39:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <20050308213449.GA2183-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308213449.GA2183@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050308163753.13880A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> I'm getting same result for all shells (Bash, Ksh, Zsh, Ash) on my
> system.  Who's responsible for interpreting #! line?  Kernel or shell?

It's the kernel's doing.

(Although a really clever shell/interpreter might inspect the #! line --
since it *is* part of the input -- and adjust its internal idea of its
arguments before proceeding.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 19:00:15 2005
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 08 Mar 2005 14:00:15 -0500
Subject: OT: sharing Rogers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050307200908.28575C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <lt7jki55fk.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:
> > Using a cheap Linux box as a router made sense 7 or 8 years ago
> > - I had a 486 doing that job for many years - but nowadays it
> > isn't worth the bother.
> 
> Unless, of course, you're not sure you can trust the cheap-router vendor.
> There have been some unpleasant bugs in some of those boxes.
> 
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

If you buy something like the Linksys WRT54GS and replace the stock firmware
with something like OpenWRT (http://www.openwrt.org/), you get the benefits
of both worlds, i.e. cheap (~ $100), small, low power hardware running a
Linux distribution giving you complete control.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
647.722.5301                                      toronto, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 19:19:16 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:19:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <422CE63F.1050106-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Grant Cullen wrote:

>> I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:
>> 
>>     #!/usr/bin/env echo foo
>> 
>> and is set +x and executes, will print:
>> 
>>     /usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory
>
> I tried it and got the same result, but when I put perl instead of echo foo. 
> It worked.  I am assuming that the command not found is echo (an internal 
> shell command) and therefore not in the path.
> Grant Cullen

The command env parses its arguments wrong and tries to execute the 
first token it finds, which is 'echo foo' (it fails the same with other 
things too, I gave it as an example. On my system there is an echo 
program).

Meanwhile I wrote a env replacement in C and I confirmed that there is 
nothing wrong with bash or the kernel mechanism that launches scripts. 
The bug is in env.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 19:22:01 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:22:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <200503080007.j28072l4001150-bi+AKbBUZKYsbE7Vo+MiNSGuMlDgniV8mpATvIKMPHk@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503080007.j28072l4001150@localhost.generalconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082120170.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, John Sellens wrote:

> env is behaving correctly, based on the arguments it is given.
> Some (including me) might claim that the kernel is invoking env
> incorrectly.

No, the kernel mechanism is ok, env is broken only when used in a line 
like that (it works fine from shell cli and in scripts). I wrote a 
replacement in C (simplified), and it is supplied with the correct args 
by the shell script exec mechanism. This fixed my problem for now but I 
would like to know I can rely on /usr/bin/env to find programs for me.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar  8 19:48:09 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:48:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <20050308162127.GM31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050308162127.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082127270.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 01:13:14AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>> I seem to have a problem with env: a file that starts with:
>>
>> 	#!/usr/bin/env echo foo
>>
>> and is set +x and executes, will print:
>>
>> 	/usr/bin/env: echo foo: No such file or directory
>
> Do you have /bin/echo or do you only have the shell built in echo (bash
> has echo built in so it doesn't use /bin/echo normally, while env does
> use the real program from the PATH).
>
> Quite likely you do not have an echo _command_ at all then.

I do have it ;-) I gave echo as an exaple, that was not what I 
originally put there.

> /usr/bin/env echo foo, does work here.

here being ? My env is from debian potato or at most unstable.

My C program shows that Henry Spencer is right, and that the kernel 
passes all the arguments to env as a single word.

With a script called s which has a header:

#!/some/where/env2 -i a b c d e f

env2 prints the arguments:

1:'/some/where/env2' 2:'-i a b c d e f' 3:'./s'

Would a env replacement that splits its second argument on spaces and 
then execve's the first of those words with the rest as arguments, be 
useful ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 10:54:43 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:54:43 +0200 (IST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <762205500.20050308153337-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
 <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
 <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net> <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091252220.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Matt Cahill wrote:

>
> Tuesday, March 8, 2005, 3:25:40 PM, you wrote:
>
> WP> I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does DVD
> WP> offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?
>
> A free frisbee (or optionally, a throwing star) :)
>
> Seriously, it's a good point. I wonder if DVD *isn't* the bally-hoo'd
> future standard it's cracked-up to be, what with flash-drive prices
> dropping as their storage potential exponentially increases.

One thing I'm pretty sure of: 30 seconds after the first 5GB disk on key 
will appear, somewhere on this planet a DVD will be copied into it and 
passed on to a friend, possibly at work, 'just to show it'. Forget 
surfing at work, now you can watch your favorite movie! ;-)

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 10:51:59 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:51:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050308202540.GA2078-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
 <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
 <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091251480.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:10:16PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote:
>> So now everyone has to go out and buy a DVD burner so that someone
>> updates the distro or creates a new one to include DVD-RAM support.
>> Anyone use(d) RAM discs with Linux?
>
> I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does DVD
> offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?

8.2 GB ?

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 13:50:27 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:50:27 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050309135027.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 09:19:16PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> The command env parses its arguments wrong and tries to execute the 
> first token it finds, which is 'echo foo' (it fails the same with other 
> things too, I gave it as an example. On my system there is an echo 
> program).
> 
> Meanwhile I wrote a env replacement in C and I confirmed that there is 
> nothing wrong with bash or the kernel mechanism that launches scripts. 
> The bug is in env.

When the kernel sees '#!/usr/bin/env echo foo' /tmp/test it calls
/usr/bin/env "echo foo" "/tmp/test"

How is this env's fault?

env could certainly have a mechanism for dealing with it, but I am not
sure env is really doing anything wrong, assuming it was never intended
for use as a script interpreter.  perl knows how to deal with arguments
passed that way, bash knows, sh knows, etc.  Those are all script
interpreters, which env is not.  I think this is a case of using env in
a place it isn't meant to be used.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 13:54:15 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:54:15 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082127270.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20050308162127.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082127270.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050309135415.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 09:48:09PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
[snip]
> Would a env replacement that splits its second argument on spaces and 
> then execve's the first of those words with the rest as arguments, be 
> useful ?

It might, but it should also keep an eye out for quotes so you could do:
#!/usr/bin/smartenv dosomething "This is my dumb filename" PATH=/bin:/usr/bin

Of course you still need to deal with the fact the filename gets passed
as the last argument, which still makes this seem like not the place to
use env.  #! is meant for running scripts with the correct interpreter,
and nothing else.

Lennart Sorensen
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 14:30:17 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:30:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309092038.26139C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> The command env parses its arguments wrong and tries to execute the 
> first token it finds...

That is exactly correct behavior.  env, like most programs, has no
business trying to parse its arguments at all -- that is the job of the
command interpreter which calls it.  env is handed a vector of strings,
not a single string; the parsing is already done. 

Command names and file names with spaces in them are *legitimate*
(although admittedly odd) and are not supposed to be broken up at the whim
of a random program. 

The problem here is a combination of rather crude kernel code which is
doing a half-hearted job of parsing, and a user not realizing that using
more than one argument in a #! line is unwise.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 14:44:51 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:44:51 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091252220.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047> <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net> <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091252220.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 12:54:43PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Matt Cahill wrote:
> >Tuesday, March 8, 2005, 3:25:40 PM, you wrote:
> >> I doubt it, since USB key drives are coming down fast.  What does
> >> DVD offer compared to 1GB or 2GB USB key?
> >
> >A free frisbee (or optionally, a throwing star) :)
> >
> >Seriously, it's a good point. I wonder if DVD *isn't* the bally-hoo'd
> >future standard it's cracked-up to be, what with flash-drive prices
> >dropping as their storage potential exponentially increases.
> 
> One thing I'm pretty sure of: 30 seconds after the first 5GB disk on
> key will appear, somewhere on this planet a DVD will be copied into it
> and passed on to a friend, possibly at work, 'just to show it'. Forget
> surfing at work, now you can watch your favorite movie! ;-)

USB key will certainly change few things:

    - embedded market -- USB will completely take over embedded market,
      because all you need is a board with USB port, and you can boot it
      just like your regular computer.  (This is what I'm doing with my 
      thin-client thing).

    - commercial application -- you can load USB key with your favourite
      app (eg. MS-Word, CorelDraw, etc), and use it wherever you are.
      That is, you buy the software once for the USB key, instead of
      buying for every machines you use.  In fact, I'm hearing rumours
      that people are thinking about selling applications pre-installed
      on USB key.  (Of course, I'm doing that already).

    - secured data transfer -- no need for encryption.  Possible
      application might be hospitals, where in-house local transfer is
      needed but without wireless or cable.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 14:54:02 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:54:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309144451.GA1964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> USB key will certainly change few things:
>     - embedded market -- USB will completely take over embedded market,
>       because all you need is a board with USB port, and you can boot it
>       just like your regular computer...

Already being done, quite routinely, with other flash formats.  USB keys
may make it a bit easier.

>       That is, you buy the software once for the USB key, instead of
>       buying for every machines you use...

That funny sound you hear is Microsoft having conniptions. :-)

>     - secured data transfer -- no need for encryption.  Possible
>       application might be hospitals, where in-house local transfer is
>       needed but without wireless or cable.

But now you've added the possibility of loss or theft of physical media.
(As witness occasional news stories, in a big organization, tracking and
inventory control of removable media containing sensitive information is a
big problem.  USB keys make it worse, by being so small.)  In fact, you 
*want* such data encrypted when it's stored on such a device.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 15:51:50 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:51:50 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050309155150.GA2158@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:02AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> >     - secured data transfer -- no need for encryption.  Possible
> >     application might be hospitals, where in-house local transfer is
> >     needed but without wireless or cable.
> 
> But now you've added the possibility of loss or theft of physical
> media.  (As witness occasional news stories, in a big organization,
> tracking and inventory control of removable media containing sensitive
> information is a big problem.  USB keys make it worse, by being so
> small.)  In fact, you *want* such data encrypted when it's stored on
> such a device.

I don't buy into encryption hype, really.  Probably because I didn't go
through Computer Science.  But, my feeling is that you get decryption
key by adding 42 to the encryption key.  Why else would government allow
such algorithm to be public?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 16:12:59 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:12:59 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309155150.GA2158-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309155150.GA2158@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050309161259.GW31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:51:50AM -0500, William Park wrote:
> I don't buy into encryption hype, really.  Probably because I didn't go
> through Computer Science.  But, my feeling is that you get decryption
> key by adding 42 to the encryption key.  Why else would government allow
> such algorithm to be public?

Go look up have plain simple RSA works.  The mathematics are really
quite simple, and hence using current known techniques is extremely hard
to crack, while very easy to implement for use.  Essentially the cpu
work required to do the calculations for encryption and decryption are
not very high, while the amount of brute force calculations needed to
break the key are enourmous, since in the case of rsa you have to factor
a number into its two prime factors (well they should be primes,
although in practice pseudo primes are used since finding large primes is
actually quite hard).  A pseudo prime is a number that is likely a prime
based on some reasonably quick checks, so it is not obviously not a
prime, and they are much faster to generate than a real prime number.

The people who come up with these algorithms in many cases don't seem to
care one bit what the government thinks of it, they just like to make
perfect little algorithms for encryption.  After all you then get to
name the nifty algorithm by sticking your initials in it's name. :)
Making an algorithm with back doors that is still actually secure
(assuming the backdoor can actually be kept perfectly secure (yeah
right)), would seem to be a lot harder than making an algorithm that is
simply secure with no backdoors.

A university clasical algebra course should teach how these basic
encryption algorithms work.

Lennart Sorensen
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:09:25 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:09:25 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050309170925.GA12557@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:02AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> >       That is, you buy the software once for the USB key, instead of
> >       buying for every machines you use...
> 
> That funny sound you hear is Microsoft having conniptions. :-)

Since installation of an app on Windows involves such things
as updating the registry to inform the OS about the app,
and often also an online registration of the app with MS
(which can include some attempt at identifying the system it
was installed on), simply having a copy of the app on a USB
key mounted on a system is not always going to be the same as
having installed the app on that system.

I'd guess that some of MS's techniques for preventing the
app from being installed multiple times on different systems
(on traditional local disk on each of the systems) will
interfere with a USB copy from working on multiple systems too.
Certainly, they will make sure that future copy protection
deals with this to some extent.  (That's just a guess; I'm
sure that some MS apps have less stringent checking and would
not have problems.)  Someone who has looked into this might
be able to come up with a registry updater that copied the
necessary bits into the registry of a new system.

What they would have more difficulty preventing is having an
app installed along with the OS on aportable bootable device
(either a DVD or USB key) - because that would make almost
everything that distinguishes it is a unique installed system
move as part of the portable media.  There would still be
some CPU fingerprinting possible - usually when you boot on
a convenient system you can't ensure that it has the same CPU
characteristics as the one that the software was installed on.
So, if they make the check that an app is validly installed
include some measure of testing that it is still the same CPU
on which it was originally installed, then they could prevent
even this sort of portability.

Of course, they then run the risk of public pressure when
someone sets up a portable app and MS copy protection makes
such a (legally fair use) activity not be permitted.

-- 
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 16:21:18 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:21:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309155150.GA2158-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309155150.GA2158@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309105934.26139F-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> > ...In fact, you *want* such data encrypted when it's stored on
> > such a device.
> 
> I don't buy into encryption hype, really.  Probably because I didn't go
> through Computer Science.  But, my feeling is that you get decryption
> key by adding 42 to the encryption key.  Why else would government allow
> such algorithm to be public?

Fortunately, this still being vaguely a free country, the government has
limited say in the matter.  The encryption algorithms that would typically
be chosen by someone competent (as opposed to Microsoft) have had a great
deal of scrutiny from people *not* affiliated with the government, and
pretty definitely don't have any such easy back doors.  (I speak as someone
who not only went through CS :-), but worked doing network encryption for 
several years.)

Various governments are not at all pleased about this, actually.  South of
the border, in particular, there have been several attempts to turn back
the clock and force everyone to use encryption systems with explicit back
doors in them.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:29:36 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:29:36 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309155150.GA2158-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309155150.GA2158@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050309172936.GB12557@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:51:50AM -0500, William Park wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:02AM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:
> > >     - secured data transfer -- no need for encryption.  Possible
> > >     application might be hospitals, where in-house local transfer is
> > >     needed but without wireless or cable.
> > 
> > But now you've added the possibility of loss or theft of physical
> > media.  (As witness occasional news stories, in a big organization,
> > tracking and inventory control of removable media containing sensitive
> > information is a big problem.  USB keys make it worse, by being so
> > small.)  In fact, you *want* such data encrypted when it's stored on
> > such a device.
> 
> I don't buy into encryption hype, really.  Probably because I didn't go
> through Computer Science.  But, my feeling is that you get decryption
> key by adding 42 to the encryption key.  Why else would government allow
> such algorithm to be public?

When you refer to a decryption key that is different from the
encryption key, you're talking about a public key encryption
method.  The government knew about public key encryption for
years without making it public.  They did not manage to prevent
it from becoming public knowledge when it was independently
discovered by researchers who were not controlled by the NSA.

For a USB key app+data, you're more likely to be using a
private key mechanism (which uses the same key for encryption
as for decryption).

Anyhow, you may not care whether there may be some people in
the NSA who know how to decode your data.  It can be extremely
important to protect company secrets from competitors, while
not being a significant concern one way or the other whether
some government spies might be able to crack those secrets.

-- 
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:18:55 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:18:55 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309155150.GA2158-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309155150.GA2158@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <422F2FFF.6020700@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:


> I don't buy into encryption hype, really.  Probably because I didn't go
> through Computer Science.  But, my feeling is that you get decryption
> key by adding 42 to the encryption key.  Why else would government allow
> such algorithm to be public?
> 

Actually, the U.S. government tried to control encryption, with the 
"Clipper" chip.  However, they lost out and PGP became popular.  Other 
systems are also available.  You may want to read the PGP book, for some 
background.

Also, read up on how public key encryption works.  You'll find out it 
takes a bit more than "42", to get the decrypt key.

If you're worried about the encryption method, you can always examine 
the source code.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:29:19 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:29:19 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <422F30D4.2080608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309170925.GA12557@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050309161649.GX31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <422F30D4.2080608@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050309172919.GY31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 12:22:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> >Well the XP activation system already ties the OS copy to a specific
> >combination of ram amount, HD serial number, ethernet MAC, cpu type,
> >etc, etc.  If more than 3 or 4 of those change from the original
> >activation, then a reactivation is required by calling MS.
> 
> I recently had to reactivate a friends notebook.  The only change, was 
> more memory!

Odd, given that doesn't match what MS claims is the number of changes
needed to make reactivation requried.  No filesystem changes were done
at any point?

Lennart Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:22:28 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:22:28 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309161649.GX31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309170925.GA12557@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050309161649.GX31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <422F30D4.2080608@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Well the XP activation system already ties the OS copy to a specific
> combination of ram amount, HD serial number, ethernet MAC, cpu type,
> etc, etc.  If more than 3 or 4 of those change from the original
> activation, then a reactivation is required by calling MS.

I recently had to reactivate a friends notebook.  The only change, was 
more memory!
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:17:36 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:17:36 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <20050309135415.GV31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050308162127.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082127270.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050309135415.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091900460.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Of course you still need to deal with the fact the filename gets passed
> as the last argument, which still makes this seem like not the place to
> use env.  #! is meant for running scripts with the correct interpreter,
> and nothing else.

And the correct interpreter is ... where exactly ? /usr/bin ? /bin ? 
/opt/bin ? some other place the suits at red hat & suse hided it at ?

I am not saying it should be called env, it could be called runscript. 
But it is needed I think. One should be able to say:

#!/bin/runscript -i -## pl -g goal -t halt -f

at the heading of a prolog program and have the obvious happen as long 
as pl is in the PATH. -## would mean 'prune all leading lines that begin 
with \'#\' from the script before passing it to the interpreter'. This 
would be done by runscript, which would copy its argv[2] to a temp 
file, starting with the first line that does not begin with the 
character indicated by its -# option. The effect of the above should be:

 	// lots of code omitted here, and code simplified below as an example
 	char *a = "/home/plp/bin/pl";
 	char *b[] = { "-g", "goal", "-f", "/tmp/_98987966.tmp", NULL };
 	char *myenv[] = { "PATH=/bin:/usr/bin", "USER=plp", "HOME=/home/plp", NULL };

 	r = execve( a, b, (seen_i)?myenv:environ ); // select env vs. -i option
 	if(r) {perror();}
 	exit(r);
} // main


Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:00:25 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:00:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <20050309135027.GU31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050309135027.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091858590.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> How is this env's fault?

As others have noticed, env is a cozy way to locate an elusive binary to 
run your script (if debian, sues, red hat etc would stop shifting 
binaries from their default locations then this would hardly be 
necessary).

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:24:17 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:24:17 +0200 (IST)
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309144451.GA1964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
 <20050308181744.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000801c5241a$d82c78f0$56486480@gross5047>
 <20050308202540.GA2078@node1.opengeometry.net> <762205500.20050308153337@rogers.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091252220.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091918390.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, William Park wrote:

> USB key will certainly change few things:
>
>    - embedded market -- USB will completely take over embedded market,
>      because all you need is a board with USB port, and you can boot it
>      just like your regular computer.  (This is what I'm doing with my
>      thin-client thing).

With this I do not agree. Unless someone will wake up and implement a 
simple serial protocol using the existing USB pinout, the host will have 
to implement a USB master. That is a problem for low cost 
microcontrollers (it might require more transistors on the micro die to 
implement it, than the micro's functional core itself).

For example, some FPGAs will boot from a EEPROM chip by supplying clock 
and a read command. The EEPROM will send the bits it has stored and 
'implement' the desired function in the FPGA. This works because the 
readout protocol from the EEPROM is extremely simple (auto-incrementing 
address etc). To me a viable alternative in the micro world, the USB key 
devices should implement something similar imho.

>    - commercial application -- you can load USB key with your favourite
>      app (eg. MS-Word, CorelDraw, etc), and use it wherever you are.
>      That is, you buy the software once for the USB key, instead of
>      buying for every machines you use.  In fact, I'm hearing rumours
>      that people are thinking about selling applications pre-installed
>      on USB key.  (Of course, I'm doing that already).

Yes but what about copyright and protection ?

>    - secured data transfer -- no need for encryption.  Possible
>      application might be hospitals, where in-house local transfer is
>      needed but without wireless or cable.

That is a good application.

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 17:41:07 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:41:07 -0500
Subject: env bug ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091858590.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20050309135027.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091858590.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050309174107.GZ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 07:00:25PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> As others have noticed, env is a cozy way to locate an elusive binary to 
> run your script (if debian, sues, red hat etc would stop shifting 
> binaries from their default locations then this would hardly be 
> necessary).

Well it still wasn't as far as I can tell the intended use of env.

Besides if you don't know where perl is, do this:

#!/bin/sh
exec perl -x
#!perl -W -otherperloptions
print "Hello World!\n";

For things other than perl, well what can you do.  Besides how is
/usr/bin/perl wrong?  I think that is where the Linux FHS says it should
be.

Lennart Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 20:58:36 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:58:36 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309172919.GY31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309170925.GA12557@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050309161649.GX31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <422F30D4.2080608@rogers.com> <20050309172919.GY31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <422F637C.80900@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 12:22:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>>Well the XP activation system already ties the OS copy to a specific
>>>combination of ram amount, HD serial number, ethernet MAC, cpu type,
>>>etc, etc.  If more than 3 or 4 of those change from the original
>>>activation, then a reactivation is required by calling MS.
>>
>>I recently had to reactivate a friends notebook.  The only change, was 
>>more memory!
> 
> 
> Odd, given that doesn't match what MS claims is the number of changes
> needed to make reactivation requried.  No filesystem changes were done
> at any point?

No.  Just added memory.  Went from 128M to 384.
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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 16:10:13 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:10:13 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <200503081756.37502.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503081756.37502.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa05030908104e9a907@mail.gmail.com>

Jason Shein wrote:
> http://www.goosee.com/puppy/multi-puppy.htm
> 
> This is an interesting concept.

I've checked out the website and it is an interesting concept. I don't
see the need for this though. Knoppix works extremely well, comes with
much more software and supports USB flash drives. So why not create a
persistent directory on your USB flash drive and carry the two around.
I imagine if you have a USB flash drive, then it's in your pocket.

Franco
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar  9 16:16:49 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:16:49 -0500
Subject: live-cd distro that writes to cd
In-Reply-To: <20050309170925.GA12557-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050309144451.GA1964@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050309094855.26139D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050309170925.GA12557@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <20050309161649.GX31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 12:09:25PM -0500, John Macdonald wrote:
> Since installation of an app on Windows involves such things
> as updating the registry to inform the OS about the app,
> and often also an online registration of the app with MS
> (which can include some attempt at identifying the system it
> was installed on), simply having a copy of the app on a USB
> key mounted on a system is not always going to be the same as
> having installed the app on that system.
> 
> I'd guess that some of MS's techniques for preventing the
> app from being installed multiple times on different systems
> (on traditional local disk on each of the systems) will
> interfere with a USB copy from working on multiple systems too.
> Certainly, they will make sure that future copy protection
> deals with this to some extent.  (That's just a guess; I'm
> sure that some MS apps have less stringent checking and would
> not have problems.)  Someone who has looked into this might
> be able to come up with a registry updater that copied the
> necessary bits into the registry of a new system.
> 
> What they would have more difficulty preventing is having an
> app installed along with the OS on aportable bootable device
> (either a DVD or USB key) - because that would make almost
> everything that distinguishes it is a unique installed system
> move as part of the portable media.  There would still be
> some CPU fingerprinting possible - usually when you boot on
> a convenient system you can't ensure that it has the same CPU
> characteristics as the one that the software was installed on.
> So, if they make the check that an app is validly installed
> include some measure of testing that it is still the same CPU
> on which it was originally installed, then they could prevent
> even this sort of portability.
> 
> Of course, they then run the risk of public pressure when
> someone sets up a portable app and MS copy protection makes
> such a (legally fair use) activity not be permitted.

Well the XP activation system already ties the OS copy to a specific
combination of ram amount, HD serial number, ethernet MAC, cpu type,
etc, etc.  If more than 3 or 4 of those change from the original
activation, then a reactivation is required by calling MS.  They
certainly don't want anyone doing this.  Nothing preventing a linux
system doing this of course as knoppix has shown, and of course some
systems do it with XP embedded, or other XP version meant to run from
read only filesystems on any system.  I imagine the license for those is
different and normally only available to companies that want to license
the OS for a specific utility on a CD which only runs that utility from
that CD.

Lennart Sorensen
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 05:24:50 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 00:24:50 -0500
Subject: ssmtp configuration question
In-Reply-To: <20050307195450.GA4293@free>
References: <20050306012651.GD18650@m450> <20050307195450.GA4293@free>
Message-ID: <20050310052450.GA4850@waltdnes.org>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 02:54:50PM -0500, Allen Taylor wrote

> Hmm. I'm running mutt/ssmtp for my email with vim as the editor. All I
> do is change the email header info in vim and that's the way it goes
> out. If I mess it up it goes out messed up.
> 
> For example, I had to change the "From: " line from my default return
> address to my "news" email address to have this email accepted by the
> TLUG mail forwarder.

  It was indeed an ssmtp configuration item.  I had to uncomment the
"FromLineOverride" setting, like so...

# Set this to never rewrite the "From:" line (unless not given) and to
# use that address in the "from line" of the envelope.
FromLineOverride=YES

  Certainly seems counter-intuitive to me.  Anyhow, the "From:" now goes
out the way I set it.  And Envelope-sender follows along.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 13:50:59 2005
From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:50:59 -0500
Subject: SAMBA and Nautilus
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091858590.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503080111010.29886@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <422CE63F.1050106@istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503082117250.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20050309135027.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503091858590.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <423050C3.3030605@gmail.com>

I got Samba up and running a few weeks ago, and now my 2 Windows pc's (1 
XP + 1 W98)  can access my Linux files.  I can also access the Windows 
shares from my linux pc at the command line.

But I can't access the Windows shares from my Nautilus file manager. 
What's the secret here?  I'm thinking I'm not specifying the location 
quite right?  But maybe something else has to be tweaked.  Any suggestions?

Btb, I'm running Nautilus vn. 2.0.6, and RH 8.

Thx very much.
-Peter

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From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 16:01:54 2005
From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:01:54 -0500
Subject: SAMBA and Nautilus
Message-ID: <s2304836.085@mail.humeimaging.com>

Peter!

I've heard Nautilus doesn't like Windows 2000, and I've experienced the same problem trying to browse to an XP Pro desktop.

Nautilus doesn't work, but the smbmount command does IF I use the "-o ip=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" option. You might like to try that.

There's a Samba/Nautilus how-to here: http://webserver.smast.umassd.edu/System_Admin_Guide/rhel-sag-en-3/s1-samba-connect-share.html

And an smbmount man page here: http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/smbmount..8.html

Cheers!

Gord Jeoffroy
I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc.
Phone: 416-921-7204 x225
Cell: 416-902-0920
Fax: 416-921-7386
Web: www.humeimaging.com



>>> pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org 03/10/05 08:50am >>>
I got Samba up and running a few weeks ago, and now my 2 Windows pc's (1 
XP + 1 W98)  can access my Linux files.  I can also access the Windows 
shares from my linux pc at the command line.

But I can't access the Windows shares from my Nautilus file manager. 
What's the secret here?  I'm thinking I'm not specifying the location 
quite right?  But maybe something else has to be tweaked.  Any suggestions?

Btb, I'm running Nautilus vn. 2.0.6, and RH 8.

Thx very much.
-Peter

--
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 19:32:37 2005
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 10 Mar 2005 14:32:37 -0500
Subject: [fwd] Linux Graphics Engineer employment opportunity
In-Reply-To: <CEEC9802A60CFC4B890DECACFA197948E1DB37-K/eu208lsw8wpA59sBi/0RuDmiLEvxRJ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CEEC9802A60CFC4B890DECACFA197948E1DB37@pisces.dg.tdgstaff.com>
Message-ID: <lvhdjj8ffu.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

This just came in for anyone interested.

"Catherine Bower" <cbower-aI0gFGj9XoJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:
> Hello!
>  
> My name is Catherine and I am a Resource Manager representing Inteqna.  I am
> currently working with a Client that is interested in hiring an individual
> for a Linux Graphics Engineer for a three month contract in the Toronto area.
> I was reviewing your website and noticed that you would prefer that job
> postings remain off of your website.  I must say, this was the first time I
> have visited your site and recognize that there are several Linux
> professionals in the Toronto area that would perhaps be interested in this
> particular employment opportunity.  At your earliest convenience, please
> advise if there is any possibility to post this particular job opportunity on
> your website.  I have included the description of this role below for your
> viewing.
>  
> I would like to thank you for your kind consideration and attention to this
> email.  I am looking forward to your response.  Have yourself a great day!
>  
>  
> 
> Linux Graphic Engineer<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
> 
>  
> 
> Our client is an up and coming application and system level software and
> hardware development company who support worldwide clients across a broad
> range of sectors. Their strengths are in hardware-related software
> engineering with expertise in 3D/2D graphics, embedded systems, games, video
> processing, audio, networking, mobile and wireless technologies. Their
> cutting edge designs optimizes software for most operating systems and all
> categories of hardware adapters. Their multi-disciplinary development teams
> create, improve and add functionality to a diverse array of hardware and
> software products. They have a current need for an experienced Linux and
> Graphics systems developer for their downtown Toronto operation. In this role
> you will: ? Assist in the development of components for Video Cards ? Resolve
> software problems based on client needs and problem reports ? Assist in the
> ongoing improvements of Linux Platform
> 
>  
> 
> This is a 3 month contract engagement with a strong possibility of renewal.
> 
>  
> 
> To be considered for this role your background and experience must include:
> 
>  
> 
> ? Minimum 3 years C, C++ development experience
> 
> ? Familiarity with chip programming
> 
> ? Linux Driver development experience
> 
> ? Experience at Debugging at Kernel, Systems and User Application levels
> 
> ? Solid Understanding of the Software Development Life Cycle
> 
> ? Ability to find innovative solutions to software problems
> 
> ? Drive to make software development simpler, reducing wasted effort
> 
> ? Solid Understanding of 3D/OpenGL development under Linux
> 
> ? X Server DDX driver development experience
> 
> ? Excellent written and verbal communication skills
> 
> ? Quality focused
> 
> ? B.Computer Science, BEE or equivalent experience
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Kindest Regards,
>  
> Catherine Bower Resource Manager INTEQNA "For the People we Know" (A Division
> of Design Group Staffing Inc.)
>  
> 123 Commerce Valley Drive East Suite 101 Markham, Ontario L3T 7W7 Telephone -
> 905-882-5800 ext 207 Fax - 905-882-5801 Email - cbower-aI0gFGj9XoJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Website -
> <http://www.inteqna.com/> www.inteqna.com
>  
>  
> "Design Group Staffing Inc. is proud to be an ISO 9001:2000 registered
> company and a winner of 'Canada's 50 Best Managed Companies' award."
>  
>  

-- 
g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>           starnix, toronto, ontario, ca
phone: 647.722.5301 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 20:15:31 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:15:31 +0000
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503072140.20927.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <200503071519.44199.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503072140.20927.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <200503102015.31419.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

Just to prove my point on the frequency at which linux distros are being 
upgraded:

http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/preview/

SuSE 9.3 will be available mid April.

9.2 Release Date: 05 November, 2004

Wow.6 month release cycle for SuSE.

Debian and Gentoo: Problem solved :)

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 21:12:15 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:12:15 -0500
Subject: Installation of Fedora over SuSE
In-Reply-To: <200503102015.31419.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <41964B23.9080605@sympatico.ca> <200503071519.44199.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503072140.20927.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200503102015.31419.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050310211215.GA31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 08:15:31PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> Just to prove my point on the frequency at which linux distros are being 
> upgraded:
> 
> http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/preview/
> 
> SuSE 9.3 will be available mid April.
> 
> 9.2 Release Date: 05 November, 2004
> 
> Wow.6 month release cycle for SuSE.
> 
> Debian and Gentoo: Problem solved :)

What problem and what is the solution?  Debian releases when done, not
at a specific date (whether it is done or not), and Gentoo, well they
seem to just release a lot.

Of course if you have people on a payroll that you can tell what to work
on, and you can decide what features not to include because they don't
work right yet, then you can decide when to release.  Debian doesn't
have people on a payroll, and doesn't throw away features just because
they aren't working right now and a release would be nice (well some
less commonly used packages will be tossed from a release at some point
if they have critical bugs).

Lennart Sorensen
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From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 22:37:14 2005
From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:37:14 -0500
Subject: disk space weirdness
In-Reply-To: <20050308024757.65575.qmail-Xz5PQeQs2q+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:47:57 -0800 (PST), J. Qiang Li
<shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am having a weird problem. When i moved one huge file under / parition to /var partition, I saw
> the /var partition usage increased to the expected size and / partition usage still remains the
> same.
> I am pretty sure the file is not in / anymore and yet the usage for / don't change. What is going
> on ?
> 
> here is the df output, as u can see / and /var are different partition :

If some program still has the huge file open on /, then it won't
actually have been removed yet (the name is gone, but the inode and
associated disk space will remain in use until all file handles are
closed).  Try the lsof utility to see if this is the case.

-- 
taa
/*eof*/
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 00:04:24 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:04:24 -0500
Subject: disk space weirdness
In-Reply-To: <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050311000424.GA18604@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 05:37:14PM -0500, Taavi Burns wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:47:57 -0800 (PST), J. Qiang Li
> <shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am having a weird problem. When i moved one huge file under / parition to /var partition, I saw
> > the /var partition usage increased to the expected size and / partition usage still remains the
> > same.
> > I am pretty sure the file is not in / anymore and yet the usage for / don't change. What is going
> > on ?
> > 
> > here is the df output, as u can see / and /var are different partition :
> 
> If some program still has the huge file open on /, then it won't
> actually have been removed yet (the name is gone, but the inode and
> associated disk space will remain in use until all file handles are
> closed).  Try the lsof utility to see if this is the case.

Or alternatively, if the original file had more than one
link, the space is not freed until the *last* link is deleted.
A file with multiple links only has one copy of the data, plus
the multiple directory entries which each point to the copy of
the data.  (This is true of Unix-like file system types such
as ext*, reiser, jfs, xfs, etc., but it need not be true for
all file system, and possibly is not true for hosted non-Unix
file systems like FAT*.)

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From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 23:20:27 2005
From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:20:27 -0500
Subject: SAMBA and Nautilus
In-Reply-To: <s2304836.085-rctWx2HDGN+TdA7hfTWfD1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <s2304836.085@mail.humeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <4230D63B.7040802@gmail.com>

Gord - thx for the tips.

I did finally get Nautilus to link to my two other computers. It just 
made no sense. I went into RH's network-configuration tool, and there 
were all the hosts (well, why not, all this tool does is allow you to 
display/change the /etc/hosts file). So I took the ip address of my xp 
host, and used a location address of 'smb://ip_address'. Nautlius showed 
me all three computers. So I double-clicked on my XP computer, and 
Nautlius showed me the Windows shares on this computer, and I can now 
'sort of' access all files in these shares.

I say 'sort of' because, if I double-click any of these files to open 
them, I get a can't-open-location error 'because application_name can't 
access files at "smb" locations'. I checked the permissions, and 
everyone has rwx access. However, I can copy these files to my linux pc, 
and then work with them. Almost there.

Any idea why I'm getting the can't-open-location error?

Thx very much.

-Peter



Gord Jeoffroy wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [TLUG]: SAMBA and Nautilus
Date: 	Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:01:54 -0500
From: 	Gord Jeoffroy <gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: 	tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
To: 	<tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>

>Peter!
>
>I've heard Nautilus doesn't like Windows 2000, and I've experienced the same problem trying to browse to an XP Pro desktop.
>
>Nautilus doesn't work, but the smbmount command does IF I use the "-o ip=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" option. You might like to try that.
>
>There's a Samba/Nautilus how-to here: http://webserver.smast.umassd.edu/System_Admin_Guide/rhel-sag-en-3/s1-samba-connect-share.html
>
>And an smbmount man page here: http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/smbmount..8.html
>
>Cheers!
>
>Gord Jeoffroy
>I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc.
>Phone: 416-921-7204 x225
>Cell: 416-902-0920
>Fax: 416-921-7386
>Web: www.humeimaging.com
>
>
>
>  
>
>>>>pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org 03/10/05 08:50am >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>I got Samba up and running a few weeks ago, and now my 2 Windows pc's (1 
>XP + 1 W98)  can access my Linux files.  I can also access the Windows 
>shares from my linux pc at the command line.
>
>But I can't access the Windows shares from my Nautilus file manager. 
>What's the secret here?  I'm thinking I'm not specifying the location 
>quite right?  But maybe something else has to be tweaked.  Any suggestions?
>
>Btb, I'm running Nautilus vn. 2.0.6, and RH 8.
>
>Thx very much.
>-Peter
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org 
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
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>  
>
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From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 10 23:23:29 2005
From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:23:29 -0500
Subject: OT: Skilled migration
In-Reply-To: <20050303230602.70645.qmail-2oP0qqmqQz6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050303170703.18439A-100000@spsystems.net>
	 <20050303230602.70645.qmail@web54705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d757b3e005031015232c4cda8c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:06:02 -0800 (PST), J. Qiang Li
<shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am sure you can fuck up with any language :) just a matter of which one is more capable of
> writting clean code.

That would be where the International Obfuscated C Code Competition comes in:
http://www.ioccc.org

-- 
taa
/*eof*/
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 00:10:20 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:10:20 -0500
Subject: Boot options in FC3
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

Hi all,

Got my FC3 installation done fine, but I am still learning the
idiosyncracies of this distros (whish is very nive BTW).

How do we pass options to the bootstrap program, like telling init to stop
at a certain level?

Thanks.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 00:26:59 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:26:59 -0500
Subject: Boot options in FC3
In-Reply-To: <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 07:10:20PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Got my FC3 installation done fine, but I am still learning the
> idiosyncracies of this distros (whish is very nive BTW).
> 
> How do we pass options to the bootstrap program, like telling init to
> stop at a certain level?

To run at runlevel 3,
    boot: linux 3

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 00:40:17 2005
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:40:17 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
Message-ID: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>

I've been using an alphanumeric pager for years. The source of most of
the messages has always been computer systems that tell me when they're
in trouble. These messages come via Internet (SNPP) and dialup (TAP) for
cases when the trouble is Internet connectivity.

I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
 (1)the phone
 (2)the carrier
 (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.

- I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
Internet with non-Internet fallback
- One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
- Any suggestions?

-- 
Sincerely,
Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 00:59:09 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:59:09 -0500
Subject: NewTLUG Knoppix?
Message-ID: <002001c525d5$8895af20$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I have started thinking about what I will be presenting regarding customised
Knoppix at an upcoming NewTLUG meeting. As part of this process I am
wondering about doing a NewTLUG Knoppix. Question is, what would be in a
NewTLUG Knoppix? I tossed that question out at the March TLUG meeting, and
about the only suggestions I got were:

- Have a picture of TLUG President Drew Sullivan in leather, taken from a
bondage website as the boot screen graphic (I gather such a photo
exists...). This is an idea that while it might be somewhat amusing, would
have to be after careful consideration answered with a clear ... NO, @#$%
NO!!!

- Have a group photo from the March NewTLUG meeting as the wallpaper for the
NewTLUG Knoppix (this is an idea that has some potential merit...).

Other ideas?

Colin McGregor

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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 02:11:30 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:11:30 -0500
Subject: Boot options in FC3
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c525df$b5f53d50$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

From: "William Park" <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> To run at runlevel 3,
>     boot: linux 3
>

Thanks!

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 02:21:49 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:21:49 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

Hi gang,

Some of you may know this already, but if you are looking for an
enterprise-class relational database product (with 30 years of market
presence)
CA has released Ingres to Open Source last year and it is now available to
download for Linux and other platforms
http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/

I got it to run on FC3 and it is awesome, it comes with loads of development
tools and gateways (JDBC included), and the PDF doc is also very
comprehensive (same as the previous commercial releases). It comes as a
bunch of rpm packages and the installation is really simple.
Those looking for something more robust than MySQL or Postgres, look no
further!

Ingres has been my bread and butter for many years until CA bought it in the
early 1990's and the product started losing its popularity and market
presence. Now the Open Source project might open new horizons for a product
that used to be at the leading edge of the RDBMS technology and was
co-created by Mr relational technology himself, Michael Stonebreaker.

(I am not in any way related to CA, I am just passing the info).

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 03:31:46 2005
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:31:46 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <99a6c38f050310193168971bbf@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:40:17 -0500, Alan Cohen
<alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
[...]
> I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
> same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
> (1)the phone
> (2)the carrier
> (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
> 
> - I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
> Internet with non-Internet fallback
> - One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
> its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
> received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
> - Any suggestions?

My guess is that you could use a Blackberry, but don't quote me on
that.  I just downloaded RIM's JDE this afternoon.  Looks farily
decent (at first glance anyway) and comes with an emulator. 
http://www.blackberry.com/developers/index.shtml

The folks over at Smart Mobile Assets might also be able to help you. 
http://smartmobileassets.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=,v=portal

-- 
- SGE
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 04:48:10 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:48:10 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <20050311044810.GA1929@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 09:21:49PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Hi gang,
> 
> Some of you may know this already, but if you are looking for an
> enterprise-class relational database product (with 30 years of market
> presence) CA has released Ingres to Open Source last year and it is
> now available to download for Linux and other platforms
> http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/
> 
> I got it to run on FC3 and it is awesome, it comes with loads of
> development tools and gateways (JDBC included), and the PDF doc is
> also very comprehensive (same as the previous commercial releases). It
> comes as a bunch of rpm packages and the installation is really
> simple.  Those looking for something more robust than MySQL or
> Postgres, look no further!
> 
> Ingres has been my bread and butter for many years until CA bought it
> in the early 1990's and the product started losing its popularity and
> market presence. Now the Open Source project might open new horizons
> for a product that used to be at the leading edge of the RDBMS
> technology and was co-created by Mr relational technology himself,
> Michael Stonebreaker.
> 
> (I am not in any way related to CA, I am just passing the info).

I know zero about database or its history.  But, don't you think it's
rather late for Ingres?  It looks like no one is using it, and CA
obviously got nothing to lose by releasing to the public.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 05:04:03 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:04:03 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311044810.GA1929@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <000801c525f7$d05b6e90$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Park" <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, 10 March, 2005 23:48
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Source Ingres for Linux
>
> I know zero about database or its history.  But, don't you think it's
> rather late for Ingres?  It looks like no one is using it, and CA
> obviously got nothing to lose by releasing to the public.

Well, better late than never! Otherwise it would have been death by lack of
interest (and revenue $$$).
Since the product was getting no sale or interest, this could give it a
second life (sort of).

There are still many Ingres installations in the country (and elsewhere),
especially in the governments bodies.
CA has also bundled it with many of its products over the years as the
default data repository (including popular
things like JBoss) so many people use it without really knowing!

Linux is a recent port and was not a bad idea after all. Which other
software product with 30 years of history as an enterprise-class package do
we find in Open Source?

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 14:03:35 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:03:35 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050310193168971bbf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <99a6c38f050310193168971bbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4231A537.2020801@rogers.com>

psema4 wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:40:17 -0500, Alan Cohen
> <alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
>>same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
>>(1)the phone
>>(2)the carrier
>>(3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
>>
>>- I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
>>Internet with non-Internet fallback
>>- One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
>>its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
>>received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
>>- Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> My guess is that you could use a Blackberry, but don't quote me on
> that.  I just downloaded RIM's JDE this afternoon.  Looks farily
> decent (at first glance anyway) and comes with an emulator. 
> http://www.blackberry.com/developers/index.shtml
> 
> The folks over at Smart Mobile Assets might also be able to help you. 
> http://smartmobileassets.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=,v=portal
> 

You can send e-mail to cell phones, that can receive SMS.  However, I 
don't know about confirmation.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 14:05:13 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:05:13 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <20050311140513.GB31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 07:40:17PM -0500, Alan Cohen wrote:
> I've been using an alphanumeric pager for years. The source of most of
> the messages has always been computer systems that tell me when they're
> in trouble. These messages come via Internet (SNPP) and dialup (TAP) for
> cases when the trouble is Internet connectivity.
> 
> I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
> same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
>  (1)the phone
>  (2)the carrier
>  (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
> 
> - I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
> Internet with non-Internet fallback
> - One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
> its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
> received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
> - Any suggestions?

Well there is SMS, but I don't believe it has any message received
confirmation (and some plans charge per received message, or at least
they used to).  Interfacing with SMS is usually fairly easy on most
carriers and can often be done using email.  Direct SMS interface to the
carrier usually requries special arrangement with the carrier (I have
dealt with Bell Mobility at my last job, and going in through a vpn to
their SMS network and sending messages.  Overkill for most people.)  If
you were to go to the more advanced SMS connection to a carrier, you can
send messages with links to a wap page which would point to your web
server in which case you would know if a user gets a message and hits
the link to go read the full message, since you just hit your web server
to get the full message.

Lennart Sorensen
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 15:23:41 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:23:41 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <f9870c010503110723771b6464@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:40:17 -0500, Alan Cohen
<alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I've been using an alphanumeric pager for years. The source of most of
> the messages has always been computer systems that tell me when they're
> in trouble. These messages come via Internet (SNPP) and dialup (TAP) for
> cases when the trouble is Internet connectivity.
> 
> I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
> same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
>  (1)the phone
>  (2)the carrier
>  (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
> 
> - I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
> Internet with non-Internet fallback
> - One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
> its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
> received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
> - Any suggestions?

I currently carry a Motorola Talkabout pager equipped with a four line
display and a tiny keyboard. It can send and receive messages, and I
have Nagios (http://www.nagios.org) set up to send the pager messages
at appropriate moments.

When my employer started using this pager with Nagios, we also tried
using my cell phone as a destination; it's a Motorola Timeport that I
got a few years back.

The pager is less susceptible to interference and will work where the
cell phone may not, however I understand that Bell may be phasing out
their text pager support in favour of the Blackberry. In addition, we
found that, depending on what domain you sent the E-Mail to, travel
time varied considerably.

In either case, there's no confirmation that a message was received,
so we have a failover protocol in place. I don't know if using the
Blackberry would solve that.

Alex
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 16:42:52 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:42:52 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311161234.GA17926-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:12:34 -0500, William O'Higgins
<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am doing some mechanical text processing at work, and it seemed to me
> that I could do it with Perl, but now I'm not so sure.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice for some who wants to write a program like
> this on Windows:
> 
> open an input file
> read file contents into string
> run regex on string
> open an output file
> print string to output file
> 
> On a proper OS it would be easy - there might be permission problems,
> but I could overcome.  The problem right now seems to be that my program
> cannot read the contents of a file, nor can it create an output file.
> Any suggestions?

>From a functional point of view, awk or Perl will do this just fine.

However, your comment that 'your program' (whatever that is) cannot
read the file, nor is it able to create an output file, suggests
something is not right. Can you explain?

Alex
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 16:50:10 2005
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 11 Mar 2005 11:50:10 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <lv1xamgm9p.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Alan Cohen <alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> writes:
> - I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
> Internet with non-Internet fallback

We use HylaFAX's IXO/TAP support for sending pages.  It works with SMS
messaging, too.  Whatever you are using to send to the alphanumeric pagers
should work, too.


> - One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
> its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
> received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?

I don't think that this exists.

HTH,
-- 
g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>           starnix, toronto, ontario, ca
phone: 647.722.5301 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 17:19:19 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:19:19 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:42:52AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
>However, your comment that 'your program' (whatever that is) cannot
>read the file, nor is it able to create an output file, suggests
>something is not right. Can you explain?

I'll try.  Here's the example program:

#/usr/bin/perl -w

$input = $ARGV[0];
$output = 'test.txt';

open(TXT, "$input") or die "Cannot open $input for some reason, perhaps:
$!\n"

if (-e $output) {
   print "$output already exists, try a different name.\n";
   } else {
   open(OUT, ">$output") or die "Cannot open this file: $!\n";
}
	   
print OUT "test";
	   
while (<TXT>) {
	$data .= $_;
}
		   
print $data;
		   
print OUT $data;

I get this error on run:

syntax error ... near ") {"

*and* test.txt doesn't get created, but there are no complaints.
Something is wrong, but I'm just not sure what.  Any suggestions?
Thanks again.
-- 

yours,

William

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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 17:27:13 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:27:13 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311171919.GA18426-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4231D4F1.7080209@istop.com>

William O'Higgins wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:42:52AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> 
>>However, your comment that 'your program' (whatever that is) cannot
>>read the file, nor is it able to create an output file, suggests
>>something is not right. Can you explain?
> 
> 
> I'll try.  Here's the example program:
> 
> #/usr/bin/perl -w
> 
> $input = $ARGV[0];

print $input at this point.

However, I am so lazy that I would bother at all to repair it.

I would just run like that:

perl myprogram.pl < input.txt > output.txt . But you would need to 
change the line with while(<TXT>) to wgile(<>)

zb.

> $output = 'test.txt';
> 
> open(TXT, "$input") or die "Cannot open $input for some reason, perhaps:
> $!\n"
> 
> if (-e $output) {
>    print "$output already exists, try a different name.\n";
>    } else {
>    open(OUT, ">$output") or die "Cannot open this file: $!\n";
> }
> 	   
> print OUT "test";
> 	   
> while (<TXT>) {
> 	$data .= $_;
> }
> 		   
> print $data;
> 		   
> print OUT $data;
> 
> I get this error on run:
> 
> syntax error ... near ") {"
> 
> *and* test.txt doesn't get created, but there are no complaints.
> Something is wrong, but I'm just not sure what.  Any suggestions?
> Thanks again.


-- 
Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions
Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking
Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780
Toronto,  Canada,  http://www.softquake.ca,  info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 17:37:48 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:37:48 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311171919.GA18426-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
	 <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:19:19 -0500, William O'Higgins
<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:42:52AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> >However, your comment that 'your program' (whatever that is) cannot
> >read the file, nor is it able to create an output file, suggests
> >something is not right. Can you explain?
> 
> I'll try.  Here's the example program:
> 
> #/usr/bin/perl -w
> 
> $input = $ARGV[0];
> $output = 'test.txt';
> 
> open(TXT, "$input") or die "Cannot open $input for some reason, perhaps:
> $!\n"
> 
> if (-e $output) {
>    print "$output already exists, try a different name.\n";
>    } else {
>    open(OUT, ">$output") or die "Cannot open this file: $!\n";
> }
> 
> print OUT "test";
> 
> while (<TXT>) {
>         $data .= $_;
> }
> 
> print $data;
> 
> print OUT $data;
> 
> I get this error on run:
> 
> syntax error ... near ") {"
> 
> *and* test.txt doesn't get created, but there are no complaints.
> Something is wrong, but I'm just not sure what.  Any suggestions?

Well, a couple. ;)

First of all, I highly recommend you purchase a good book about
learning Perl. O'Reilly has several excellent books, and one of them
is called Learning Perl. It'll give you a good basic understanding of
the language.

Second, I can recommend Perl Monks (perlmonks.org) as a great on-line
community. Fools are not always suffered gladly, so concentrate on
lots of reading and very little writing when you first arrive.

Third, always use 'strict' -- it will catch your errors at compile
time rather than at run time.

Fourth, when you report an error, a line number is always handy. It
turns out that you forgot a semi-colon at the end of one of your
lines. The fixed up program is as follows:

------------------------------
#/usr/bin/perl -w

#  Usage: test.pl [input_file]

use strict;

my $input = shift;
my $output = 'test.txt';
my $data;

#  Check that the output file exists, and exit if it does.

if (-e $output) {
  print "$output already exists, try a different name.\n";
  exit;
} else {
  open(OUT, ">$output") or die "Cannot open this file: $!\n";
}

#  Write out a line of test output to the output file.

print OUT "test\n";

#  Open the input file.

open(TXT, "$input") or 
  die "Cannot open $input for some reason, perhaps:$!";

#  Read the entire input file into a scalar.

while (<TXT>) {
       $data .= $_;
}

#  Dump the entire file (contained in the scalar) to STDOUT

print $data;

#  Same thing, but dump file to the output file.

print OUT $data;

close ( OUT ) or
  die "Unable to close output file: $!";
------------------------------

and when I run it ..

------------------------------
[alex at rand dev]$ perl -w tlug-mar11.pl wtime.sh
#!/bin/sh

while wtime.pl; do
  sleep 120
done

[alex at rand dev]$ cat test.txt
test
#!/bin/sh

while wtime.pl; do
  sleep 120
done
------------------------------

It works fine.

I won't go over all of the improvements .. just compare your code to
mine and see where I've made some changes.

Alex
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 18:35:57 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:35:57 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311161234.GA17926-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20050311183557.GC31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:12:34AM -0500, William O'Higgins wrote:
> I am doing some mechanical text processing at work, and it seemed to me
> that I could do it with Perl, but now I'm not so sure.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice for some who wants to write a program like
> this on Windows:
> 
> open an input file
> read file contents into string
> run regex on string
> open an output file
> print string to output file
> 
> On a proper OS it would be easy - there might be permission problems,
> but I could overcome.  The problem right now seems to be that my program
> cannot read the contents of a file, nor can it create an output file.
> Any suggestions?

Install activeperl
Use perl

Now on Linux I would think something like perl -pi -e 's/foo/bar/g' list of filenames
would be easiest, but on windows that may not work the same (since
windows expects programs to expand wildcards rather than the shell).  To
make it easier you could install cygwin and use perl from bash and have
that work.  Of course you could just write the perl code to
opendir/readdir and get each file, process it in a while(<FILEHANDLE>)
loop writing to a new file and it should work pretty easily.

Lennart Sorensen
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 18:52:22 2005
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:22 -0500
Subject: Primus improperly labelling mail
Message-ID: <1110567141.9686.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi I didn't put spam in the subject line in case the message got dumped.
Lately Primus has been labeling more legit mails as spam. This is a
problem for me since I have a filter that looks at the header and
trashes anything with ******SPAM****** (Primus label) in it. I'm using
Evolution. Is there a way I can at least keep those messages labled spam
but from someone in my address book. I also use spamassassin but it's
not causing the problem. After the quick filter looking at the header
spamassassin looks at the rest of my mail. Any thoughts how I can avoid
dumping some important mail?
jim

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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 18:58:13 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:58:13 -0500
Subject: Primus improperly labelling mail
In-Reply-To: <1110567141.9686.16.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110567141.9686.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <f9870c01050311105816880fa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:22 -0500, jim ruxton <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hi I didn't put spam in the subject line in case the message got dumped.
> Lately Primus has been labeling more legit mails as spam. This is a
> problem for me since I have a filter that looks at the header and
> trashes anything with ******SPAM****** (Primus label) in it. I'm using
> Evolution. Is there a way I can at least keep those messages labled spam
> but from someone in my address book. I also use spamassassin but it's
> not causing the problem. After the quick filter looking at the header
> spamassassin looks at the rest of my mail. Any thoughts how I can avoid
> dumping some important mail?

If the spam catcher is putting its 'spam score' in the header of the
mail message, perhaps your mailer could do something based on the
score value.

Alex
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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 19:08:19 2005
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:08:19 -0500
Subject: Antec Tower case free to a good home
In-Reply-To: <20050221171736.G97808-VEo9TDJW/1fCABo8mDOsPEfjHoOT/h/0@public.gmane.org>
References: <F469C84F0C6A394AA1D90C3B57E077C8628EB0@exchange.int.shareowner.com> <20050221161133.GD2365@utoronto.ca> <20050221170531.GA1994@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050221171736.G97808@nirmala.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050311190818.GA15550@utoronto.ca>

On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 05:19:34PM +0000, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, William Park wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 11:11:33AM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> >>I'm slow responding, but...  I can always use stuff like this for the
> >>Regent Park 'Technical Self-Sufficiency Project' that I've just
> >>started (see earlier emails tothis effect).  So if anyone's looking ot
> >>offload gear, please don't hesitateto ocntact me...
> >>
> >>Matt
> >
> >Matt, use thin-client. :-)
> 
> There is a project providing computer facilities to under privileged kids 
> that went the thinclient route.  I catch up with one of the organisers 
> periodically and she reports a big thumbs up.
> 
> Along with William I'm another big pro thin client person.  Infact I'm 
> typing this from a Linux thin client right now ;)

hey folks,  

missed your responses last month, for which apologies!  can you point
me to some info on thin clients?  I'd like to think aboutthat for the
next time I do htis project.  Also Robert can you hook me up with the
folks you mentioned?  soundsl ike an interesting project!

matt


> 
> Rob
> 

-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot:
zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 20:43:43 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:43:43 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <f9870c01050311093710166ae6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050311204342.GA22388@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 12:37:48PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:19:19 -0500, William O'Higgins
> <william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
     [ ... ]
> > I'll try.  Here's the example program:
     [ ... ]
> > I get this error on run:
> > 
> > syntax error ... near ") {"
> > 
> > *and* test.txt doesn't get created, but there are no complaints.
> > Something is wrong, but I'm just not sure what.  Any suggestions?
> 
> Well, a couple. ;)

In addition to Alex's points, I'd explicitly point out that the
"syntax error" message is critical to the problem.  It means
that the perl compiler couldn't understand the code text,
so instead of executing the program, it described where it
got confused and quit.

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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 20:52:34 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:52:34 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <f9870c01050311093710166ae6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050311205234.GB22388@lupus.perlwolf.com>

One additional note: if there is any chance that you'd ever
be copying a file that is large, it would be better to avoid
loading the entire file into memory before writing it back out.

Change:

    while (<TXT>) {
            $data .= $_;
    }
    
    print $data;
    
    print OUT $data;

To:

    while (<TXT>) {
        print $_;
        print OUT $_;
    }

-- 
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 19:55:40 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:55:40 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311205234.GB22388-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com> <20050311205234.GB22388@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <4231F7BC.2030007@istop.com>

John Macdonald wrote:
> One additional note: if there is any chance that you'd ever
> be copying a file that is large, it would be better to avoid
> loading the entire file into memory before writing it back out.
> 
> Change:
> 
>     while (<TXT>) {
>             $data .= $_;
>     }
>     
>     print $data;
>     
>     print OUT $data;
> 
> To:
> 
>     while (<TXT>) {
>         print $_;
>         print OUT $_;
>     }
> 

No... this doesn't matter. The first print will only allow to test if 
input data are there.

One may also just write

          print;
          print OUT;

when using $_.

And a one-liner version I posted before (its different a bit from the 
original one of William, since file names are define as STDIN and STDOUT 
on command line):

perl -e 'while(<>){ print; }' < input.txt > aoutput.txt


zb.


-- 
Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions
Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking
Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780
Toronto,  Canada,  http://www.softquake.ca,  info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 16:12:34 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:12:34 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
Message-ID: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

I am doing some mechanical text processing at work, and it seemed to me
that I could do it with Perl, but now I'm not so sure.

Does anyone have any advice for some who wants to write a program like
this on Windows:

open an input file
read file contents into string
run regex on string
open an output file
print string to output file

On a proper OS it would be easy - there might be permission problems,
but I could overcome.  The problem right now seems to be that my program
cannot read the contents of a file, nor can it create an output file.
Any suggestions?

Thanks.
-- 

yours,

William

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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 20:17:30 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:17:30 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20050311205234.GB22388-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
	 <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
	 <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050311205234.GB22388@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105031112175d4bd9e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:52:34 -0500, John Macdonald <john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> One additional note: if there is any chance that you'd ever
> be copying a file that is large, it would be better to avoid
> loading the entire file into memory before writing it back out.

Absolutely right .. I didn't make any attempt to rationalize what was
happening in the script since it was pretty clearly a 'test' script.

Alex
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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 20:27:26 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:27:26 -0500
Subject: Primus improperly labelling mail
In-Reply-To: <f9870c01050311105816880fa0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110567141.9686.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <f9870c01050311105816880fa0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050311202726.GA10524@free>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 01:58:13PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:22 -0500, jim ruxton <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Hi I didn't put spam in the subject line in case the message got dumped.
> > Lately Primus has been labeling more legit mails as spam. This is a
> > problem for me since I have a filter that looks at the header and
> > trashes anything with ******SPAM****** (Primus label) in it. I'm using
> > Evolution. Is there a way I can at least keep those messages labled spam
> > but from someone in my address book. I also use spamassassin but it's
> > not causing the problem. After the quick filter looking at the header
> > spamassassin looks at the rest of my mail. Any thoughts how I can avoid
> > dumping some important mail?
> 
> If the spam catcher is putting its 'spam score' in the header of the
> mail message, perhaps your mailer could do something based on the
> score value.

I've looked at a few of Primus's "scores" and they are all over 7.0 to
be marked as SPAM. 

You've hit a real sore spot with me. I have an email composed to Primus
telling them I'm leaving their service because of their idiotic spam
filtering and I'm holding off sending it until I cool down a bit. In the
past two months their spam filtering has gotten worse every week. My
wife and I don't get a lot of spam. Of the mail Primus is marking as
spam (around 10-20 per day), at least 75% is legimate email (personal,
mailing lists, TLUG, etc). And of the actual spam I get, 80% is NOT
marked as spam. They have really screwed this up. I talked to their tech
support two days ago and was basicly given the brush off - they have no
whitelisting capabilities and no ability to turn off the spam filtering
by account.

I know spam is a real problem but this cure seems much worse than the
disease. Istop here I come?

Allen
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 21:58:43 2005
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 11 Mar 2005 16:58:43 -0500
Subject: Linux Job Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <000001c5267a$6c59d7a0$100a0a0a@Juri>
References: <000001c5267a$6c59d7a0$100a0a0a@Juri>
Message-ID: <lvmzt97sks.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Yuly Taratuta <yuly-U0LLASLCtz9dfcUSkOPJIRdDcuvq+h7I at public.gmane.org> writes:
> I am an IT Recruiter with National-Executive. We have an immediate
> opening for a senior Linux administrator in Burlington, ON. I wasn't
> able to find a way to post this message on your website, so any
> assistance would be appreciated. If any members of your community are in
> the job market right now, please mail me the resumes, and I will do my
> best to place them.
>  
> Regards,
> Yuly Taratuta.
>  
> National-Executive
> (416)256 0300 ext:235

Today seems to be the day for Linux jobs.
-- 
g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>           starnix, toronto, ontario, ca
phone: 647.722.5301 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 22:39:43 2005
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:39:43 -0500
Subject: Hardware for pvr
Message-ID: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

I know, it.s been beaten to death.  I was wondering if the 
bellow system is powerful enough to handle myth TV encoding 
and streaming video for MPEG-4.  The TV card I might
use will not have hardware encoding on it.  Is mythTV the
most widely used pvr software?

1600 for a pvr / media center sounds expensive :-(


The system will likely be something like the bellow 
system.  Is this overkill?
$389.99   Shuttle?? SB77G5 Pentium?? 4 Socket 775 
$324.99   Intel?? Pentium?? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
          EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan
$199.99   1Gb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200
$199.99   (2) 250GB Maxtor SATA-150 7200RPM 16Mb 9ms OEM
 $79.99   Leadtek?? WinFast?? TV2000 XP Expert (PCI) 
---------------------------------------------------------
$1394.94  
  $97.65  
 $111.60  
=========================================================
$1604.19  Total
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BarebonePromos/index.htm

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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 00:07:05 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:07:05 -0500
Subject: OT:Perl on Windows
In-Reply-To: <4231F7BC.2030007-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c01050311093710166ae6@mail.gmail.com> <20050311205234.GB22388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <4231F7BC.2030007@istop.com>
Message-ID: <20050312000705.GA23025@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:55:40PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> John Macdonald wrote:
> >One additional note: if there is any chance that you'd ever
> >be copying a file that is large, it would be better to avoid
> >loading the entire file into memory before writing it back out.
> >
> >Change:
> >
> >    while (<TXT>) {
> >            $data .= $_;
> >    }
> >    
> >    print $data;
> >    
> >    print OUT $data;
> >
> >To:
> >
> >    while (<TXT>) {
> >        print $_;
> >        print OUT $_;
> >    }
> >
> 
> No... this doesn't matter. The first print will only allow to test if 
> input data are there.

Um, what doesn't matter? Running out of memory when you read
the entire (possibly huge) file into $data?  You don't need
the first print to determine that the program failed in that
case - on Linux you'll get a segfault, presumeably you get
some sort of failure indication on Windows too in such a case.
The useful thing is to avoid the failure, though, rather than
to get some sort of indication that it happened.

The original code printed the entire file both to the desired
destination and to stdout, my code duplicated that.  Are you
saying that the form of the program could be changed to only
print the first line of the input file?

> One may also just write
> 
>          print;
>          print OUT;
> 
> when using $_.

That's true.

> And a one-liner version I posted before (its different a bit from the 
> original one of William, since file names are define as STDIN and STDOUT 
> on command line):
> 
> perl -e 'while(<>){ print; }' < input.txt > aoutput.txt

This does the same line by line copying that you said doesn't
matter above.  I guess you're really saying that copying to
stdout as well as to the destination file wasn't necessary.
That's the original programmer's decision to make - perhaps
he really wanted to same sort of functionality as the Unix
tee program or perhaps it was there for debugging and would
have been removed as soon as things were working.

If you really want to turn it into a one liner (which might not
be appropriate - the original may have been scaled down from
a much bigger set of requirements, just to get the first step
working), the -p flag would make it trivial:

    perl -pe '' input.txt > output.txt

-- 
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From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 23:08:44 2005
From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 18:08:44 -0500
Subject: Linux Job Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <lvmzt97sks.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c5267a$6c59d7a0$100a0a0a@Juri> <lvmzt97sks.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <845D10EC-9282-11D9-90B8-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca>

On Mar 11, 2005, at 4:58 PM, G. Matthew Rice wrote:

> Today seems to be the day for Linux jobs.

Now, if they were only Linux software development jobs....

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 23:16:06 2005
From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 18:16:06 -0500
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <IBEGIFFHGKPBMFCMLGNCOEMKCPAA.right_maple_nut@yahoo.co.uk>

Your right, I think that $1600 is too expensive for a PVR Computer.
Also, I wound recommend an AMD processor for this kind of task because
the extremely deep pipelines on the Pentium 4 processor can impact
the computers ability to multitask effectively in this situation.

Hyperthreading could be a booster for this, though, so you have to
make the final decision.

Obviously, you should check the MythTV hardware compatibility list before
purchasing anything.

For MythTV, though you can take just about any AMD Athlon XP or better
processor
and add supported hardware MPEG2/4 encoders on PCI cards.

Yours Sincerly
Amos "The Compudoc' Weatherill

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Mailing
List
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 5:40 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Hardware for pvr


I know, it.s been beaten to death.  I was wondering if the
bellow system is powerful enough to handle myth TV encoding
and streaming video for MPEG-4.  The TV card I might
use will not have hardware encoding on it.  Is mythTV the
most widely used pvr software?

1600 for a pvr / media center sounds expensive :-(


The system will likely be something like the bellow
system.  Is this overkill?
$389.99   Shuttle? SB77G5 Pentium? 4 Socket 775
$324.99   Intel? Pentium? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
          EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan
$199.99   1Gb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200
$199.99   (2) 250GB Maxtor SATA-150 7200RPM 16Mb 9ms OEM
 $79.99   Leadtek? WinFast? TV2000 XP Expert (PCI)
---------------------------------------------------------
$1394.94
  $97.65
 $111.60
=========================================================
$1604.19  Total
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BarebonePromos/index.htm

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 00:24:32 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:24:32 -0500
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <20050312002432.GB23025@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 05:39:43PM -0500, Mailing List wrote:
> I know, it.s been beaten to death.  I was wondering if the 
> bellow system is powerful enough to handle myth TV encoding 
> and streaming video for MPEG-4.  The TV card I might
> use will not have hardware encoding on it.  Is mythTV the
> most widely used pvr software?
> 
> 1600 for a pvr / media center sounds expensive :-(
> 
> 
> The system will likely be something like the bellow 
> system.  Is this overkill?
> $389.99   Shuttle? SB77G5 Pentium? 4 Socket 775 
> $324.99   Intel? Pentium? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
>           EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan
> $199.99   1Gb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200
> $199.99   (2) 250GB Maxtor SATA-150 7200RPM 16Mb 9ms OEM
>  $79.99   Leadtek? WinFast? TV2000 XP Expert (PCI) 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> $1394.94  
>   $97.65  
>  $111.60  
> =========================================================
> $1604.19  Total
> http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BarebonePromos/index.htm

Speaking with no direct experience whatsoever (so check it out
before you take any action on this suggestion :-) I'd guess
that you would be able get more than enough horsepower out of
a much slower CPU, using a more powerful TV card if necessary
would likely let you get away with a discarded old system.

I'd also only get one disk at first - by the time you fill up
the first disk, the same money will buy a bigger second disk.

You should check:
1) How much CPU horsepower is really needed
2) what disk throughput is needed.  (That might make the
    different between being able to use the IDE interface
    already on an old system and buying an SATA interface.
    But, since DVD drives can be read at multiples of the
    display rate, I don't think disk throughput is really a
    problem that forces you to get high speed disks.)
3) I also really doubt that memory is an issue - you read
    a bunch of bits in, massage them somewhat, then write
    the bits out, the number of bits you work on at a time
    is not ging to be very onerous

An old system will probably not look nice sitting in your
living room, so that might force getting a pretty box - but
that is separate from filling it with all new components.

-- 
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 23:43:30 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:43:30 +0000
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <200503112343.30912.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 11, 2005 10:39 pm, Mailing List wrote:
> I know, it.s been beaten to death.  I was wondering if the
> bellow system is powerful enough to handle myth TV encoding
> and streaming video for MPEG-4.  The TV card I might
> use will not have hardware encoding on it.  Is mythTV the
> most widely used pvr software?
>
> 1600 for a pvr / media center sounds expensive :-(
>
>
> The system will likely be something like the bellow
> system.  Is this overkill?
> $389.99   Shuttle? SB77G5 Pentium? 4 Socket 775
> $324.99   Intel? Pentium? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
>           EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan
> $199.99   1Gb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200
> $199.99   (2) 250GB Maxtor SATA-150 7200RPM 16Mb 9ms OEM
>  $79.99   Leadtek? WinFast? TV2000 XP Expert (PCI)
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> $1394.94
>   $97.65
>  $111.60
> =========================================================
> $1604.19  Total
> http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BarebonePromos/index.htm
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

I am currently using a cheap AthlonXp 1600, with a Hauppauge Hardware MPEG 
card, and it works extremey well running MythTV or Freevo. Look into the 
hardware database for othe configurations people are using.

Pay the extra for a Haupauge card, the 250 or 350 PVR cards are best.

I also recommend ( what will be in my next PVR ) a VIA EPIA S motherboard. 

Look at http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_sp_spec.jsp?motherboardId=261

on board MPEG2 & MPEG4 decoding reduces cpu usage.

-snip-

The VIA EPIA SP mainboard introduces the VIA CN400 Digital Media chipset to 
the Mini-ITX form factor for the first time, extending the feature set of the 
VIA EPIA Mini-ITX family to include support for DDR266/333/400 and even 
greater digital media performance on the rapidly emerging new generation of 
smart digital entertainment devices such as PVRs, set top boxes, and media 
centers. Targeting x86 consumer electronics devices, the Chromotion CE Video 
Display Engine of the S3 Graphics UniChrome? Pro IGP graphics core features 
hardware-based MPEG-2 decoding and MPEG-4 acceleration for smooth playback of 
the most popular video formats,together with Adaptive De-Interlacing and 
Video De-Blocking advanced video rendering functions for unequalled image 
crispness.

-snip-


-- 
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Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 00:52:12 2005
From: jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:52:12 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <42323D3C.6080401@istop.com>

Alan Cohen wrote:

>I've been using an alphanumeric pager for years. The source of most of
>the messages has always been computer systems that tell me when they're
>in trouble. These messages come via Internet (SNPP) and dialup (TAP) for
>cases when the trouble is Internet connectivity.
>
>I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
>same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
> (1)the phone
> (2)the carrier
> (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
>
>- I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
>Internet with non-Internet fallback
>- One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
>its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
>received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
>- Any suggestions?
>
>  
>
I have a Motorola connected through bell, receives and sends e-mail 
fine.  My current employer uses Rogers for support pages also to a cell, 
don't recall the model.

Grant Cullen
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 01:51:16 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:51:16 -0500
Subject: Antec Tower case free to a good home
In-Reply-To: <20050311190818.GA15550-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <F469C84F0C6A394AA1D90C3B57E077C8628EB0@exchange.int.shareowner.com> <20050221161133.GD2365@utoronto.ca> <20050221170531.GA1994@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050221171736.G97808@nirmala.opentrend.net> <20050311190818.GA15550@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050312015116.GA2132@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:08:19PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> missed your responses last month, for which apologies!  can you point
> me to some info on thin clients?

Mine is at
    http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html 
Others can be located via Google,
    LTSP, thin client, diskless, X terminal

> I'd like to think aboutthat for the next time I do htis project.  Also
> Robert can you hook me up with the folks you mentioned?  soundsl ike
> an interesting project!
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 02:51:21 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:51:21 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
Message-ID: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long while) 
has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an obvious 
question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I can find 
out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers effected 
range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!

Madison

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly (Digimer)
TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 03:26:12 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:26:12 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
In-Reply-To: <42325929.6080102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20050312032612.GA20720@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 09:51:21PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>  It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long while) 
>has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an obvious 
>question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I can find 
>out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers effected 
>range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!

Probably /etc/ssh/sshd_config

Lines should look something like this:

X11Forwarding yes
X11DisplayOffset 10

For me, everything else was client-based.  Remember to restart ssh.
-- 

yours,

William

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From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 11 05:04:14 2005
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:04:14 -0500
Subject: NewTLUG Knoppix?
In-Reply-To: <002001c525d5$8895af20$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <002001c525d5$8895af20$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200503110004.14684.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On March 10, 2005 07:59 pm, Colin McGregor wrote:

> Other ideas?

Don't bother.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 19:45:56 2005
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:45:56 -0500
Subject: Primus improperly labelling mail
In-Reply-To: <1110567141.9686.16.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110567141.9686.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200503121445.56203.mervc@eol.ca>

On Friday 11 March 2005 13:52, jim ruxton wrote:

I think when Wintel took over Echo On Line the emails started getting these 
same inserts.  However I have yet to find anything labelled  SPAM  which 
wasn't. I let a Kmail filter move the SPAM to the trash folder.  It sure 
makes the job SpamAssassin has to do, a quite simple one. 

A Happy camper at EOL.

> Hi I didn't put spam in the subject line in case the message got dumped.
> Lately Primus has been labeling more legit mails as spam. This is a
> problem for me since I have a filter that looks at the header and
> trashes anything with ******SPAM****** (Primus label) in it. I'm using
> Evolution. Is there a way I can at least keep those messages labled spam
> but from someone in my address book. I also use spamassassin but it's
> not causing the problem. After the quick filter looking at the header
> spamassassin looks at the rest of my mail. Any thoughts how I can avoid
> dumping some important mail?
> jim
>
> --

-- 
Merv Curley
Toronto, Ont. Can

Mepis  Linux
KDE 3.3.1 Desktop   KMail 1.7.1


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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 21:46:07 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:46:07 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <20050311171919.GA18426-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4233631F.5010705@istop.com>

How to get the best speed?

Words in every language occure with a well determined probablility. For 
instance, for English, "a" and "the" will be somewhere at the top.

I want to bild a database of the most common words in English, a 
something like at least a few tens of records. Every record will contain 
transcription.

And now, the question:

How optimize process of searching for words?
Should I create these records in ascending or descending order? Any 
differnec will be observed? Or perhaps an entirely different approach 
should be made?

zb.
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 22:05:23 2005
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:05:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>
 <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
 <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121700420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>

| co-created by Mr relational technology himself, Michael Stonebreaker.

Wouldn't "Mr. Relational technology" be E.F. Codd?

Shouldn't Postgress be more interesting?  Isn't it Stonebreaker's next
project?

More seriously: can you compare and contrast those two systems?
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 22:18:11 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:18:11 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121700420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c52751$72590cc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

>From what I know Stonebreaker was the guy who first put in practice the
theory developed by Codd and others and made it a commercial success.
You can find lots of web sites talking about Stoneberaker and the emergence
of RDBMS, such as:

http://control.cs.berkeley.edu:8000/nasa_e2e/mike.html

Postgres is a spinoff of Ingres and a research project, Ingres was the
commercial version of the same concept. More like an early "open source"
before its time!

Ingres has matured as a commercial enterprise-class software product while
Postgres remained a university project.

If you want the real thing, then go for Ingres!

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, 12 March, 2005 17:05
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Source Ingres for Linux


> | From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>
> | co-created by Mr relational technology himself, Michael Stonebreaker.
>
> Wouldn't "Mr. Relational technology" be E.F. Codd?
>
> Shouldn't Postgress be more interesting?  Isn't it Stonebreaker's next
> project?
>
> More seriously: can you compare and contrast those two systems?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 22:37:04 2005
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:37:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <IBEGIFFHGKPBMFCMLGNCOEMKCPAA.right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org>
References: <IBEGIFFHGKPBMFCMLGNCOEMKCPAA.right_maple_nut@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121711420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Amos H. Weatherill <right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org>

| Also, I wound recommend an AMD processor for this kind of task because
| the extremely deep pipelines on the Pentium 4 processor can impact
| the computers ability to multitask effectively in this situation.

Are you making that up, or is that based on measurement?

My intuition is that the pipeline is something like 30 cycles long.
This is 10 nanoseconds at the 3.0GHz he is contemplating.  Say there
are several instructions in flight that need to be completed, so let's
multiply by 10 -- 100ns.  The other things going on in a task switch
dwarf a 100ns penalty.

| Hyperthreading could be a booster for this, though, so you have to
| make the final decision.

FYI, some people are having problems with ivtv that look like bugs
w.r.t. SMP and preemption.  Hyperthreading appears to the system as
SMP.  So I would not count on using it.

| Obviously, you should check the MythTV hardware compatibility list before
| purchasing anything.

Yes.  And ask the Myth TV lists about questions like this.  That
audience surely has more knowledge and interest.

| For MythTV, though you can take just about any AMD Athlon XP or better
| processor
| and add supported hardware MPEG2/4 encoders on PCI cards.

ivtv seems to be the driver needed for those cards.

| From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Mailing
| List

Actually, my copy said that it was
	From: Mailing List <tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org>

| I know, it.s been beaten to death.  I was wondering if the
| bellow system is powerful enough to handle myth TV encoding
| and streaming video for MPEG-4.  The TV card I might
| use will not have hardware encoding on it.  Is mythTV the
| most widely used pvr software?

My impression is that doing the compression in the video card is much
wiser.  Hauppauge PVR 250s go for $150 on sale; sometimes even less.
Then you can use a CPU as slow as a Pentium III, I think.

There are newer models from Hauppauge.  They may be cheaper.  They may
be supported.  Other companies also produce compressing tuners.

| 1600 for a pvr / media center sounds expensive :-(

More than is needed, I think.  Depends on your goals.  Don't forget
"quiet" -- a noisy audio-video appliance is annoying.

| $324.99   Intel? Pentium? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
|           EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan

Sounds sexy.  Not necessarily usefully so.

I am trying to bring up a PVR 250 on an x86_64 system.  Not all of the
software seem to be ready for x86_64.  Soon, I hope.

Why am I using x86_64?  Not for video reasons -- this is to be my
general purpose desktop machine.  x86_64 is a good source of low-grade
challenges.

From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 23:04:16 2005
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:04:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <000a01c52751$72590cc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>
 <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
 <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121700420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>
 <000a01c52751$72590cc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121746052.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>

Sorry, what you say strikes me as hype, not information.  That makes
me nit pick.  OK, I admit it, I nit pick anyway.

| >From what I know Stonebreaker was the guy who first put in practice the
| theory developed by Codd and others and made it a commercial success.

I seem to remember System R predating Ingres.  Not a commercial
success, but I think that it evolved into DB/2, which is successful
(not sure -- I don't pay much attention to database systems).

| Postgres is a spinoff of Ingres and a research project, Ingres was the
| commercial version of the same concept.

My understanding at the time was that Postgress was the successor as a
research project.  So it ought to have shiny new ideas (no longer new
now).

| More like an early "open source"
| before its time!

There is no "before its time" for open source.  There has been open
source as long as there has been source.

| Ingres has matured as a commercial enterprise-class software product while
| Postgres remained a university project.
| 
| If you want the real thing, then go for Ingres!

There has been a lot of work on Postgress making it a practical tool.
Outside UCB.

I was hoping for a serious comparison, not just sloganeering.

Technical issues matter (what standards are supported, ACID, ...)

Pragmatic issues matter (what systems does it work on?  Well?
Resource utilization/requirements?  Is the code clean?  ...)

Social issues matter (have a group of developers coalesced around the
project?  Are they from diverse institutions (i.e. will it survive CA
losing interest)?), ...)

What characteristics of a project would make Ingres the right tool to
use?
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 12 23:38:18 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:38:18 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121700420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com> <000a01c52751$72590cc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121746052.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <000701c5275c$a3c701d0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

Lots of interesting details and points!

I have used and/or supported Ingres installations since 1985, so I might be
a bit biased (aren't we all) on its technical capabilities compared to
others.
As interesting or capable MySQL and Postgres might be they were never
developed to become commercially distributed products, so they were
developed and enhanced in a differenc way that Ingres.

For the technical part the complete doc and data sheets can be found here:
http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/documents

In a nutshell, I guess Ingres is like any other RDBMS and can be used where
a relational data repository is required, on Linux and other platforms.
What makes it unique for Open Source is that it started as a commercial
product.
It can accommodate small footprint systems (a couple of users on a small
Linux box) as well as hundreds on a big-iron UNIX system.

I have supported Ingres database servers running 24x7 with 700 interactive
users. I haven't seen too many Postgres or MySQL installations of that size!

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, 12 March, 2005 18:04
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Source Ingres for Linux


> | From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>
> Sorry, what you say strikes me as hype, not information.  That makes
> me nit pick.  OK, I admit it, I nit pick anyway.
>
> | >From what I know Stonebreaker was the guy who first put in practice the
> | theory developed by Codd and others and made it a commercial success.
>
> I seem to remember System R predating Ingres.  Not a commercial
> success, but I think that it evolved into DB/2, which is successful
> (not sure -- I don't pay much attention to database systems).
>
> | Postgres is a spinoff of Ingres and a research project, Ingres was the
> | commercial version of the same concept.
>
> My understanding at the time was that Postgress was the successor as a
> research project.  So it ought to have shiny new ideas (no longer new
> now).
>
> | More like an early "open source"
> | before its time!
>
> There is no "before its time" for open source.  There has been open
> source as long as there has been source.
>
> | Ingres has matured as a commercial enterprise-class software product
while
> | Postgres remained a university project.
> |
> | If you want the real thing, then go for Ingres!
>
> There has been a lot of work on Postgress making it a practical tool.
> Outside UCB.
>
> I was hoping for a serious comparison, not just sloganeering.
>
> Technical issues matter (what standards are supported, ACID, ...)
>
> Pragmatic issues matter (what systems does it work on?  Well?
> Resource utilization/requirements?  Is the code clean?  ...)
>
> Social issues matter (have a group of developers coalesced around the
> project?  Are they from diverse institutions (i.e. will it survive CA
> losing interest)?), ...)
>
> What characteristics of a project would make Ingres the right tool to
> use?
> --

--
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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 00:33:39 2005
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:33:39 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <4233631F.5010705-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4233631F.5010705@istop.com>
Message-ID: <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca>

Sounds like you're wanting to create a small text corpus there, 
Zbigniew. You might be better off with a free text search engine like 
Apache Lucene than MySQL.

Alternatively, there are concordancing programs that will do exactly 
this, and show you the most common words, and their collocates (words 
that appear before or after them). One I found, but haven't tried, is 
TextSTAT 
<http://www.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/textstat/software-en.html> -- 
it's been a while since I did corpus linguistics seriously.

  Stewart
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 01:02:49 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:02:49 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <42338A63.5030101-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4233631F.5010705@istop.com> <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <42339139.8000501@istop.com>

Stewart,

I should have say: tens of thousands of records (words). I mean most of 
the words that are used in English most frequentely.

Both, Lucene and TextSTAT are interesting and new for me (thanks for the 
info) but these are not related much to my project. I will use Gutenberg 
project to get words (a bit old words, but thats good enough). Of course 
I could better scan the web. Thats not a problem either.

My question is in which order should I populate MySQL database to get 
the fastest search for words: starting from the most frequentely used 
words or from least frequent words? This actually can be tested easiely 
and I will report the result. But perhaps exists a different approach to 
the problem?

Users of web page will enter some text into the form. Computer will 
search for transcription of every word entered. The PHP program I am 
using (translation by me from Visual Basic) is good for small number of 
words but at large amounts of text web server times out. So instead of 
calculating transcription every time, for every word, I wanted rather to 
create a database of words and their transciptions.

zb.



Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> Sounds like you're wanting to create a small text corpus there, 
> Zbigniew. You might be better off with a free text search engine like 
> Apache Lucene than MySQL.
> 
> Alternatively, there are concordancing programs that will do exactly 
> this, and show you the most common words, and their collocates (words 
> that appear before or after them). One I found, but haven't tried, is 
> TextSTAT 
> <http://www.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/textstat/software-en.html> -- 
> it's been a while since I did corpus linguistics seriously.
> 
>  Stewart
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


-- 
Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions
Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking
Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780
Toronto,  Canada,  http://www.softquake.ca,  info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org
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From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 01:15:12 2005
From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:15:12 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <42339139.8000501-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca>
 <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
 <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com>
 <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
 <4233631F.5010705@istop.com> <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <v04011702be5943acd05e@[216.254.166.223]>

At 8:02 PM -0500 3/12/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
>
>My question is in which order should I populate MySQL database to get
>the fastest search for words: starting from the most frequentely used
>words or from least frequent words? This actually can be tested easiely
>and I will report the result. But perhaps exists a different approach to
>the problem?
>

Shouldn't matter.  Database indices are usually B-trees, so finding anything
should be close enough to constant time not to matter.  Might be mildly
interesting
to know if this true for  MySQL.

Jim Rootham
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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 06:04:54 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:04:54 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <42339139.8000501-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4233631F.5010705@istop.com> <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca> <42339139.8000501@istop.com>
Message-ID: <4233D806.7090701@almatau.com>

Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
...
> My question is in which order should I populate MySQL database to get 
> the fastest search for words: starting from the most frequentely used 
> words or from least frequent words? This actually can be tested easiely 
> and I will report the result. But perhaps exists a different approach to 
> the problem?
You don't need any order, but don't forget about index.

> 
> Users of web page will enter some text into the form. Computer will 
> search for transcription of every word entered. The PHP program I am 
> using (translation by me from Visual Basic) is good for small number of 
> words but at large amounts of text web server times out. So instead of 
> calculating transcription every time, for every word, I wanted rather to 
> create a database of words and their transciptions.

Depending on amount of words and performance of your web server,
a different approach may be good for you.
Your data will be static - you'll prepare a list of words, users won't 
submit new
ones, right?.  In this case, there is just no need in a Database Management
System which MySQL is.  Instead, generate a hash (key - the word, value 
- its
transcription), dump it into a binary db file,  and use it as a hash 
object in your
script.  It's easy in perl, should be possible in PHP too.
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From buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 08:44:33 2005
From: buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kaizilege Karoma)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: server/copying
Message-ID: <20050313084433.40749.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear,
 I have two servers, each of them installed fedora,
one fedora core 2 and the other fedora core 3, i want
to copy the whole directory that contain my website
from one server to the other.
please help by example (Showing the whole command.
 Eg. I am copying from 195.44.x.x to 195.44.x.x 

thanks


		
__________________________________ 
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 08:52:22 2005
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 03:52:22 -0500
Subject: server/copying
In-Reply-To: <20050313084433.40749.qmail-B4aZ9Q1dLV+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050313084433.40749.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4233FF46.7020005@quadratic.net>

use scp.
read the manual it's quite clearn and writtin better than I could explain.


Type this:

man scp

david

Kaizilege Karoma wrote:

>Dear,
> I have two servers, each of them installed fedora,
>one fedora core 2 and the other fedora core 3, i want
>to copy the whole directory that contain my website
>from one server to the other.
>please help by example (Showing the whole command.
> Eg. I am copying from 195.44.x.x to 195.44.x.x 
>
>thanks
>
>
>		
>__________________________________ 
>Do you Yahoo!? 
>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>  
>

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From buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 09:14:59 2005
From: buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kaizilege Karoma)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: server/copying
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050313091459.33312.qmail@web14308.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you David for the reply.


David Thornton <david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
use scp.
read the manual it's quite clearn and writtin better than I could explain.


Type this:

man scp

david

Kaizilege Karoma wrote:

>Dear,
> I have two servers, each of them installed fedora,
>one fedora core 2 and the other fedora core 3, i want
>to copy the whole directory that contain my website
>from one server to the other.
>please help by example (Showing the whole command.
> Eg. I am copying from 195.44.x.x to 195.44.x.x 
>
>thanks
>
>
> 
>__________________________________ 
>Do you Yahoo!? 
>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
>

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From buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 09:25:55 2005
From: buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kaizilege Karoma)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:25:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: University Computerization
Message-ID: <20050313092555.72782.qmail@web14323.mail.yahoo.com>

I am working in the ICT Department in the University, we are planning to fully computerize the entire University. I am responsible with the project.
 
Please could you help me identify the open Source Program that can keep 
1. Student Records, transcripts, schedules, attendance, Admissions and fee ... 
2. Human Resource management system
3. Library Management Software
 
thanks in Advance

		
---------------------------------
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From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 13:57:02 2005
From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:57:02 -0500
Subject: University Computerization
In-Reply-To: <20050313092555.72782.qmail-RA1XFsz7HiKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050313092555.72782.qmail@web14323.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050313085702.4ba601a6.rob@cheapersafer.com>

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:25:55 -0800 (PST)
Kaizilege Karoma <buguruka-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I am working in the ICT Department in the University, we are planning to fully computerize the entire University. I am responsible with the project.
>  
> Please could you help me identify the open Source Program that can keep 
> 1. Student Records, transcripts, schedules, attendance, Admissions and fee ... 
> 2. Human Resource management system
> 3. Library Management Software

I can tell you where to look...

This is the Schoolforge list of educational packages

http://www.schoolforge.net/software.php

Here is a site with reviews on Open Source Library applications

http://www.oss4lib.org/

Here are the two main OS archive sites...type in some keywords

http://freshmeat.net/

http://sourceforge.net/index.php

and a list of software archive sites

http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Software_Archives/index.html

Probably Schoolforge will be the best place to start

Rob 






-- 
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Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com
Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 15:43:50 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:43:50 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
In-Reply-To: <42325929.6080102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <42345FB6.1080400@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long while) 
> has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an obvious 
> question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I can find 
> out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers effected 
> range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!

I add a -X to the command.

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 15:45:47 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:45:47 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
In-Reply-To: <42345FB6.1080400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com> <42345FB6.1080400@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4234602B.6010401@alteeve.com>

James Knott wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>>   It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long 
>> while) has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an 
>> obvious question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I 
>> can find out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers 
>> effected range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!
> 
> 
> I add a -X to the command.

I may be daft but I couldn't figure out what I needed to do on the 
server end (it looked like Xforwarding was already enabled). Adding the 
'-X' worked great though so that will do for now. Thanks a lot!

Madison

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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly (Digimer)
TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 22:40:09 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:40:09 -0500
Subject: May need a PHP / MySQL programmer
In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050313162343.01ef7e58-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.2.0.14.0.20050313162343.01ef7e58@mail.eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20050313224009.GA1905@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 04:40:57PM -0500, Bill Mudry wrote:
> I might be off topic but I hope not. What is the best way to find
> candidates to do PHP programming using MySQL to keep data and running
> on a Linux or BSD environment?

How aabout users group like this?.  Oh, you just did that.

> I hold some faith that this reaches out to a lot of programmers to
> start with.  We hope to find someone who is economical or
> competitively priced. Knowing a bit about different common and exotic
> woods or at least some basic knowledge of biological taxonomy (naming
> - species, genera, families, orders) would be a bonus and helpful.

Depends of your data structure... but, if it's "table", have you
considered text file, either as table or key:value pairs?

> 
> This would be on an independent, freelance contract for a set of
> projects to maintain and grow a knowledge base on wood and to help set
> us up to host many ads on wood and wood based topics.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From stephenc-1+gBmcx5sBQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 13:20:22 2005
From: stephenc-1+gBmcx5sBQ at public.gmane.org (Stephen Clarke)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:20:22 -0500
Subject: Logwatch Error
Message-ID: <20050314132022.TOIW2988.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@xendor>

My Logwatch email is giving me an error (Kernel Error) I don't understand.

I searched Google but can't find anything that matches.

Does anybody know what this means?

xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx sent an invalid ICMP type 11, code 1 error to a broadcast

I'm using FC2 ver: 2.6.10-1.12_FC2

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephen

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:23:17 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:23:17 -0500
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121711420.22096-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <IBEGIFFHGKPBMFCMLGNCOEMKCPAA.right_maple_nut@yahoo.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121711420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20050314152317.GD31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Mar 12, 2005 at 05:37:04PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: Amos H. Weatherill <right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Also, I wound recommend an AMD processor for this kind of task because
> | the extremely deep pipelines on the Pentium 4 processor can impact
> | the computers ability to multitask effectively in this situation.
> 
> Are you making that up, or is that based on measurement?

In what I have seen, the P4 wins on code optimized for long runs of SSEx
execution (where a few instructions can really use the resources and
memory throughput of the P4), while code that is less linear and has
lots of conditions runs much better on the Athlons and the Pentium M.
This does make sense since a high clock rate long pipeline cpu would run
fast on linear code, and not well on branch heavy code.

> My intuition is that the pipeline is something like 30 cycles long.
> This is 10 nanoseconds at the 3.0GHz he is contemplating.  Say there
> are several instructions in flight that need to be completed, so let's
> multiply by 10 -- 100ns.  The other things going on in a task switch
> dwarf a 100ns penalty.

It still hurts on branch mispredictions.  Unless your software takes
advantage of the P4's rather good SSE2/SSE3 instructions, it will loose
to an Athlon (especially an Athlon64 which too is rather good at
SSE2/3).

> My impression is that doing the compression in the video card is much
> wiser.  Hauppauge PVR 250s go for $150 on sale; sometimes even less.
> Then you can use a CPU as slow as a Pentium III, I think.
> 
> There are newer models from Hauppauge.  They may be cheaper.  They may
> be supported.  Other companies also produce compressing tuners.

Certainly hardware is nice, but only MPEG2 is cheap to buy in hardware.
I haven't personally seen an MPEG4 hardware encoder, although it is
certainly possible they exist.

> More than is needed, I think.  Depends on your goals.  Don't forget
> "quiet" -- a noisy audio-video appliance is annoying.

Even a noisy PC is annoying. :)

> | $324.99   Intel? Pentium? 4 -630, 3.0-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 2Mb
> |           EM64T XD (Socket 775)  w/ Heat Sink & Fan
> 
> Sounds sexy.  Not necessarily usefully so.

The EM64T stuff certainly doesn't do much useful on a typical desktop
machine with 1 or 2GB ram.

> I am trying to bring up a PVR 250 on an x86_64 system.  Not all of the
> software seem to be ready for x86_64.  Soon, I hope.

There certainly seems to be a lot of work going on with it and a lot of
interest in it.

> Why am I using x86_64?  Not for video reasons -- this is to be my
> general purpose desktop machine.  x86_64 is a good source of low-grade
> challenges.

And faster and cheaper than similar P4s.  Working out 32 to 64bit
problems is lots of fun I imagine.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:24:19 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <200503112343.30912.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com> <200503112343.30912.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050314152419.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:43:30PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> I am currently using a cheap AthlonXp 1600, with a Hauppauge Hardware MPEG 
> card, and it works extremey well running MythTV or Freevo. Look into the 
> hardware database for othe configurations people are using.
> 
> Pay the extra for a Haupauge card, the 250 or 350 PVR cards are best.
> 
> I also recommend ( what will be in my next PVR ) a VIA EPIA S motherboard. 
> 
> Look at http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_sp_spec.jsp?motherboardId=261
> 
> on board MPEG2 & MPEG4 decoding reduces cpu usage.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> The VIA EPIA SP mainboard introduces the VIA CN400 Digital Media chipset to 
> the Mini-ITX form factor for the first time, extending the feature set of the 
> VIA EPIA Mini-ITX family to include support for DDR266/333/400 and even 
> greater digital media performance on the rapidly emerging new generation of 
> smart digital entertainment devices such as PVRs, set top boxes, and media 
> centers. Targeting x86 consumer electronics devices, the Chromotion CE Video 
> Display Engine of the S3 Graphics UniChrome??? Pro IGP graphics core features 
> hardware-based MPEG-2 decoding and MPEG-4 acceleration for smooth playback of 
> the most popular video formats,together with Adaptive De-Interlacing and 
> Video De-Blocking advanced video rendering functions for unequalled image 
> crispness.

And do they provide documentation and/or drivers for using those
features under Linux?

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:26:49 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:26:49 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
In-Reply-To: <42325929.6080102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20050314152649.GF31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 09:51:21PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
>   It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long while) 
> has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an obvious 
> question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I can find 
> out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers effected 
> range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!

The server (machine you ssh to) must have Xforwarding enabled in
sshd_config, and must have xauth program installed and probably in the
path.

If those conditions are met, ssh -X servername should work assuming
$DISPLAY is set locally and you can already run X programs from the
terminal.

Lennnart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:29:40 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:29:40 -0500
Subject: server/copying
In-Reply-To: <20050313084433.40749.qmail-B4aZ9Q1dLV+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050313084433.40749.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050314152940.GG31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 12:44:33AM -0800, Kaizilege Karoma wrote:
>  I have two servers, each of them installed fedora,
> one fedora core 2 and the other fedora core 3, i want
> to copy the whole directory that contain my website
> from one server to the other.
> please help by example (Showing the whole command.
>  Eg. I am copying from 195.44.x.x to 195.44.x.x 

Use rsync (essentially same syntax as scp, but better and faster and
resumeable).  It will even copy timestamps and all if you use -a.

ie:
rsync -a /sourcedir remotehost:/destdir

It connects over ssh by default.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:33:21 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:33:21 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <000701c5275c$a3c701d0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050308024757.65575.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> <d757b3e0050310143747ef0fcd@mail.gmail.com> <001901c525ce$c864d830$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050311002659.GA5096@node1.opengeometry.net> <001301c525e1$26674aa0$6501a8c0@pcfrancois> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121700420.22096@redshift.mimosa.com> <000a01c52751$72590cc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503121746052.22096@redshift.mimosa.com> <000701c5275c$a3c701d0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <20050314153321.GH31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Mar 12, 2005 at 06:38:18PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Lots of interesting details and points!
> 
> I have used and/or supported Ingres installations since 1985, so I might be
> a bit biased (aren't we all) on its technical capabilities compared to
> others.
> As interesting or capable MySQL and Postgres might be they were never
> developed to become commercially distributed products, so they were
> developed and enhanced in a differenc way that Ingres.

I thought there were commercial offerings of Postgres and I know MySQL
can be bought commercially.  Besides MS considers Access a commercial
product.

> For the technical part the complete doc and data sheets can be found here:
> http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/documents
> 
> In a nutshell, I guess Ingres is like any other RDBMS and can be used where
> a relational data repository is required, on Linux and other platforms.
> What makes it unique for Open Source is that it started as a commercial
> product.
> It can accommodate small footprint systems (a couple of users on a small
> Linux box) as well as hundreds on a big-iron UNIX system.

Every other commercial product gone open source I can think of, has
taken years of work to try and clean of the crappy code base it had when
released.  Will this one be any different?

> I have supported Ingres database servers running 24x7 with 700 interactive
> users. I haven't seen too many Postgres or MySQL installations of that size!

I suspect there are people doing that.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:37:18 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:37:18 -0500
Subject: MySQL question - perhaps interesting?
In-Reply-To: <42339139.8000501-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050311161234.GA17926@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <f9870c010503110842e6ecc0a@mail.gmail.com> <20050311171919.GA18426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4233631F.5010705@istop.com> <42338A63.5030101@sympatico.ca> <42339139.8000501@istop.com>
Message-ID: <20050314153718.GI31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Mar 12, 2005 at 08:02:49PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> I should have say: tens of thousands of records (words). I mean most of 
> the words that are used in English most frequentely.
> 
> Both, Lucene and TextSTAT are interesting and new for me (thanks for the 
> info) but these are not related much to my project. I will use Gutenberg 
> project to get words (a bit old words, but thats good enough). Of course 
> I could better scan the web. Thats not a problem either.
> 
> My question is in which order should I populate MySQL database to get 
> the fastest search for words: starting from the most frequentely used 
> words or from least frequent words? This actually can be tested easiely 
> and I will report the result. But perhaps exists a different approach to 
> the problem?

The idea of a decent database is that it indexes things to try and make
access to all data equaly fast.  If the order you populate the database
matters, then the database is broken by design.

> Users of web page will enter some text into the form. Computer will 
> search for transcription of every word entered. The PHP program I am 
> using (translation by me from Visual Basic) is good for small number of 
> words but at large amounts of text web server times out. So instead of 
> calculating transcription every time, for every word, I wanted rather to 
> create a database of words and their transciptions.

Lennart Sorensen
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 15:41:24 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:41:24 -0500
Subject: FW: Microsoft's new TV dinner product
Message-ID: <20050314104124.A2147@ee.ryerson.ca>



Subject: Microsoft's new TV dinner product


INSTRUCTIONS FOR MICROSOFT'S NEW TV DINNER PRODUCT:

You must first remove the plastic cover. By doing so you agree to 
accept and honor Microsoft rights to all TV dinners. You may not give 
anyone else a bite of your dinner (which would constitute an 
infringement of Microsoft's rights). You may, however, let others 
smell and look at your dinner and are encouraged to tell them how 
good it is.

If you have a PC microwave oven, insert the dinner into the oven. Set 
the oven using these keystrokes:

mstv.dinn.//08.5min at 50%heat Then enter: 
ms//start.cook_dindin/yummy\|/yum~yum:-)gohot#cookme.

If you have a Macintosh microwave oven, insert the dinner and press 
start. The oven will set itself and cook the dinner.

If you have a Unix microwave oven, insert the dinner, enter the 
ingredients of the dinner found on the package label, the weight of 
the dinner, and the desired level of cooking and press start. The 
oven will calculate the time and heat and cook the dinner exactly to 
your specification.

Be forewarned that Microsoft dinners may crash, in which case your 
oven must be restarted. This is a simple procedure. Remove the dinner 
from the oven and enter:

ms.nodamn.good/tryagain\again/again.crap

This process may have to be repeated.

Try unplugging the microwave and then doing a cold reboot. If this 
doesn't work, contact your oven vendor. The oven itself is obviously 
on the blink.

Many users have reported that the dinner tray is far too big, larger 
than the dinner itself, having many useless compartments, most of 
which are empty. These are for future menu items. If the tray is too 
large to fit in your oven, you will need to upgrade your equipment.

Dinners are only available from registered outlets, and only the 
chicken variety is currently produced. If you want another variety, 
call Microsoft Help and they will explain that you really don't want 
another variety. Microsoft Chicken is all you really need. Microsoft 
has disclosed plans to discontinue all smaller versions of their 
chicken dinners. Future releases will only be in the larger family 
size. Excess chicken may be stored for future use, but must be saved 
only in Microsoft approved packaging. Microsoft promises a dessert 
with every dinner after '05. However, that version has yet to be 
released. Users have permission to get thrilled in advance.

Microsoft dinners may be incompatible with other dinners in the 
freezer, causing your freezer to self-defrost. This is a feature, not 
a bug. Your freezer probably should have been defrosted anyway.
-- 
_________________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
   -A.Einstein
_________________________
-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 11/03/2005

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 11/03/2005

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 16:38:52 2005
From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:38:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000@iran.unitycode.org>

Hey all,

I see that Mark Spencer (author of Asterisk and Gaim) is going to be in
town April 19th-21st for the VON conference (voncanada.com), does anyone
think there's any chance we could get him as a speaker for a one-off
Asterisk/Linux talk?

John Hall from Linux International is also making an appearance at the
conference.

re,
spd
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 16:47:17 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:47:17 +0000
Subject: Hardware for pvr
In-Reply-To: <20050314152419.GE31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1D9snH-0001DY-00@cage.robertsearle.com> <200503112343.30912.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050314152419.GE31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200503141647.17400.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 14, 2005 03:24 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 11:43:30PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> > I am currently using a cheap AthlonXp 1600, with a Hauppauge Hardware
> > MPEG card, and it works extremey well running MythTV or Freevo. Look into
> > the hardware database for othe configurations people are using.
> >
> > Pay the extra for a Haupauge card, the 250 or 350 PVR cards are best.
> >
> > I also recommend ( what will be in my next PVR ) a VIA EPIA S
> > motherboard.
> >
> > Look at http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_sp_spec.jsp?motherboardId=261
> >
> > on board MPEG2 & MPEG4 decoding reduces cpu usage.
> >
> > -snip-
> >
> > The VIA EPIA SP mainboard introduces the VIA CN400 Digital Media chipset
> > to the Mini-ITX form factor for the first time, extending the feature set
> > of the VIA EPIA Mini-ITX family to include support for DDR266/333/400 and
> > even greater digital media performance on the rapidly emerging new
> > generation of smart digital entertainment devices such as PVRs, set top
> > boxes, and media centers. Targeting x86 consumer electronics devices, the
> > Chromotion CE Video Display Engine of the S3 Graphics UniChrome??? Pro
> > IGP graphics core features hardware-based MPEG-2 decoding and MPEG-4
> > acceleration for smooth playback of the most popular video
> > formats,together with Adaptive De-Interlacing and Video De-Blocking
> > advanced video rendering functions for unequalled image crispness.
>
> And do they provide documentation and/or drivers for using those
> features under Linux?
>

Yes they most definitely do.

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4887107636.html

http://www.walibe.com/content-33.html

Some discussion here about VIA and their commitment to linux and mention of 
the EPIA S motherboard.

http://lwn.net/Articles/99464/

and more detail on the CN400 chipset here

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3462367027.html

-snip-

The CN400 adds support for 200MHz front-side bus speeds, a 1GB/s "Ultra 
V-Link" southbridge interconnect, and hardware acceleration for MPEG-2 and 
-4, among other new features. The CN400's MPEG engine requires application 
awareness, and Via in August released a Linux build of the Xine media player 
for it. 

-snip-


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 17:00:29 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:00:29 +0000
Subject: Logwatch Error
In-Reply-To: <20050314132022.TOIW2988.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@xendor>
References: <20050314132022.TOIW2988.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@xendor>
Message-ID: <200503141700.29187.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 14, 2005 01:20 pm, Stephen Clarke wrote:
> My Logwatch email is giving me an error (Kernel Error) I don't understand.
>
> I searched Google but can't find anything that matches.
>
> Does anybody know what this means?
>
> xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx sent an invalid ICMP type 11, code 1 error to a broadcast
>
> I'm using FC2 ver: 2.6.10-1.12_FC2
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stephen

For starters take a look here:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=111681

The odd thing is that it looks like the affected systems should all be patched 
by now and the only mention of it is on RHEL systems.

This would work to fix your situation I think.

Add to /etc/sysctl.conf the following line:
net.ipv4.icmp_ignore_bogus_error_responses=1

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 22:06:37 2005
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:06:37 -0500
Subject: ssh and X forwarding
In-Reply-To: <42345FB6.1080400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42325929.6080102@alteeve.com> <42345FB6.1080400@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42360AED.3090401@utoronto.ca>

James Knott wrote:

> Madison Kelly wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>   It would seem one of the updates in the last while (maybe long 
>> while) has disabled X forwarding through SSH. I am sure this is an 
>> obvious question but can anyone tell me quickly (or point me where I 
>> can find out) how to restore X forwarding? If it matters the servers 
>> effected range from Fedora Core 1, 2 and 3. Thanks!
>
>
> I add a -X to the command.
>

The -X flag does not appear to work all the time with more recent 
versions of OpenSSH.  I'm not entirely sure the reasoning but using the 
-Y flag does and is supposed to be more secure.  Anyone know any more 
about this?

Marcus
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 22:34:25 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:34:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Offer of CanIT CDs
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141731530.28093@mimosa.opentrend.net>

Hi all.  Roaring Penguin in Ottawa is now offering CanIT licences for free 
for small organisations (up to 50 users):

http://www.roaringpenguin.ca/anti_spam/free_canit.php

They have just contacted me on behalf of TLUG and offered to send CDs of 
the product as well.

Would users prefer to receive a CD rather than downloading it.  They have 
offered to send us 10-20 CDs and I'd like to judge the interest in this.

Just follow-up to this thread and will see how many people will want a CD.  
I'll base the number I ask for on the number of responses showing interest 
in a CD.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 14 22:37:58 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:37:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000-lkn/ztfFZq2a4o8cOB7kKB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000@iran.unitycode.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141736350.28093@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I see that Mark Spencer (author of Asterisk and Gaim) is going to be in
> town April 19th-21st for the VON conference (voncanada.com), does anyone
> think there's any chance we could get him as a speaker for a one-off
> Asterisk/Linux talk?

We'd have to bump the current April speaker, Ulrich Czekalla, which I try 
to avoid doing.  Still, I will obey the will of the people on this matter.

> John Hall from Linux International is also making an appearance at the

He only answers to Maddog ;)

Rob
TLUG Talks Coordinator

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 00:51:06 2005
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:51:06 -0500
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141736350.28093-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>; from rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A@public.gmane.org on Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 05:37:58PM -0500
References: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000@iran.unitycode.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141736350.28093@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050314195106.J29561@leftmind.net>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > I see that Mark Spencer (author of Asterisk and Gaim) is going to be in
> > town April 19th-21st for the VON conference (voncanada.com), does anyone
> > think there's any chance we could get him as a speaker for a one-off
> > Asterisk/Linux talk?
> 
> We'd have to bump the current April speaker, Ulrich Czekalla, which I try 
> to avoid doing.  Still, I will obey the will of the people on this matter.

One might expect the April meeting to be held on the 12th, that being the
second Tuesday.

> > John Hall from Linux International is also making an appearance at the
> 
> He only answers to Maddog ;)

And answers quite well, at that.  If either or both of them is giving a
public talk while in town, or could be persuaded to by members of the
TLUG Illuminati, it'd certainly be something worthy of attendance.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
--
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 02:47:56 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:47:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <20050314195106.J29561-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000@iran.unitycode.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141736350.28093@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <20050314195106.J29561@leftmind.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503142144350.29561@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Anthony de Boer wrote:

> One might expect the April meeting to be held on the 12th, that being the
> second Tuesday.

An excellent point, and it is indeed scheduled for April 12th.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 03:36:20 2005
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:36:20 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Google Job Posting for Computer Science Alumni
In-Reply-To: <4235CC50.6020002-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4235CC50.6020002@cs.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <42365834.1000302@utoronto.ca>

I thought some people here might be interested in this.  It didn't come 
directly through me so don't bother asking me any specifics.

Regards,
Marcus

Forwarded message:

>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:     Google Job Posting for Computer Science Alumni?
> Date:     Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:19:01 -0500
> From:     mdove <mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I am a recruiter from Google headquarters in Mountain View, 
> California. We are searching for the best Computer Scientists in the 
> world. The two positions are listed below. They are based in Dublin, 
> Ireland or Mountain View, California.
>
> Marianne Dove
>
> Google Recruiter
>
> 650-623-6814
>
> mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org <mailto:mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>
> Mountain View, CA
>
> Job #1
>
> Google
>
> Linux Cluster Systems Administrator/Expert Scripter
>
> Positions based in Dublin, Ireland or Mountain View, CA
>
> Relocation a must-assistance provided.
>
> Google's Cluster Operations team is looking for talented system
>
> administrators to help administer Google's complex, proprietary
>
> clustering technologies. Literally thousands of Linux servers power
>
> the technology behind Google.com, and it's a real challenge to
>
> administer these effectively. Google's Cluster Operations team needs
>
> seasoned system administrators to automate complex tasks across a huge
>
> cluster.
>
> Responsibilities:
>
> * automation of tasks as much as possible through the development of
>
> scripts and administration tools
>
> * configuration of system and network parameters
>
> * monitoring of system stability and performance
>
> * ensuring 24x7 operation of our cluster
>
> * comprehensive documentation of our procedures
>
> Requirements:
>
> * B.S. in Computer Science, or equivalent experience
>
> * 4+ years experience with Linux Systems Administration
>
> *Deep understanding of networking ie: understanding of how to isolate, 
> diagnose, and resolve service delivery components (service delivery 
> components include servers, networks, and applications); be familiar 
> with the functionality, operating, and failure modes of key networking 
> devices (routers, switches, bridges, firewalls, hardware load 
> balancers); be able to identify networking as the potential cause of a 
> service issue using server-resident tools to generate this data (i.e. 
> tcpdump, ping, traceroute, etc.); familiarity in interpreting the 
> output of these tools; familiarity with common network topologies, 
> protocols, and tools; have some notion of common network security 
> exploits -- and their remedies; understanding of troubleshooting at 
> the packet level; intimate knowledge of TCP/IP networking
>
> * strong programming and scripting ability (Python, Perl, bash)
>
> * excellent verbal and written skills
>
> * outstanding customer service abilities
>
> Email resumes to: mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org <mailto:mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>
> Job #2
>
> Engineering Hands-On Technical Manager/Director Google.com
> Positions based in Dublin, Ireland or Mountain View, California.
> Relocation a must-relocation assistance provided.
>
>
>
>
>
> Are you the kind of Manager that is just as highly technical as the 
> staff you manage in Software Development?  Although strategic 
> management is part of this job the technical competence of this 
> manager/director is key in this role.
>
>
> Do you presently have expert coding ability and in-depth knowledge of 
> algorithms?
>
>
>
> We're looking for a highly technical, hands-on Engineer or Operations 
> Manager to lead a team of 4-10+ Google software engineers and systems 
> administrators for the Google.com group. The Google.com teams are 
> directly responsible for Google's stellar uptime record, and act as 
> the guardians and custodians of Google's user-visible services. In 
> this leadership role, you will be responsible for ensuring that Google 
> users can always reach and use all of the services under your team's 
> care.
>
>
>
>
>
> Requirements:
> ?Very high technical competence and strong academic record.
>
> ?BA/BS in Computer Science; MS / Ph.D. a plus.
>
> ?In-depth knowledge of algorithms
>
> ?Unix platform experience.
>
> ?Expert coding ability in any of the following languages:  C++, C, 
> Python, Java, Perl, PHP, or Shell.
>
> ?Deep understanding of networking ie: understanding of how to isolate, 
> diagnose, and resolve service delivery components (service delivery 
> components include servers, networks, and applications); be familiar 
> with the functionality, operating, and failure modes of key networking 
> devices (routers, switches, bridges, firewalls, hardware load 
> balancers); be able to identify networking as the potential cause of a 
> service issue using server-resident tools to generate this data (i.e. 
> tcpdump, ping, traceroute, etc.); familiarity in interpreting the 
> output of these tools; familiarity with common network topologies, 
> protocols, and tools; have some notion of common network security 
> exploits -- and their remedies; understanding of troubleshooting at 
> the packet level
>
> ?* *Candidate must be able to ?talk the talk? and ?walk the walk? at 
> very technical meetings understanding the nature of problems in scale 
> and complexity and be able to have the verbal agility to communicate 
> to technically astute teams across the company. 
> ?Experienced in an internet application service environment preferable. 
> ?3-10+ years of relevant hands-on experience managing software 
> development and/or operations teams.
> ?Strong project management skills, especially in deploying live 
> end-user systems.
> ?That rare mix of intelligence, integrity, domain knowledge, verbal 
> agility, and diplomacy which allows you to rapidly earn the trust of 
> technically-astute teams across the company.
>
>
>
>
> For immediate consideration, please send a text (ASCII) or HTML or 
> PDF  version of your resume to:
>
>
>
> mdove-hpIqsD4AKleXj1p+fO2waQ at public.gmane.org
>
>

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 03:47:21 2005
From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:47:21 -0500
Subject: Databases
Message-ID: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca>

A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird database 
programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing I know about 
them is that they're both open source database programs.

I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program created 
by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single computer" 
non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and etc., but the new 
version is demanding either one of these database programs (or Sybase, which 
is proprietary, and therefore if possible to be avoided...), and the only 
database program I have is mySQL.
-- 
there's no place like 127.0.0.1
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 03:57:29 2005
From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:57:29 -0800
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <20050314195106.J29561-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503141123180.26147-100000@iran.unitycode.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141736350.28093@mimosa.opentrend.net> <20050314195106.J29561@leftmind.net>
Message-ID: <20050315035729.GM32127@unleashed.org>

Anthony de Boer (adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) [050314 16:51]:
> Robert Brockway wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > > John Hall from Linux International is also making an appearance at the
> > 
> > He only answers to Maddog ;)
> 
> And answers quite well, at that.  If either or both of them is giving a
> public talk while in town, or could be persuaded to by members of the
> TLUG Illuminati, it'd certainly be something worthy of attendance.

Oh come now, you can't take anyone too seriously who smokes from a
teapot ;)  (apologies to Maddog)
-- 
Must not turn into a snake.  It never helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Leah R. M. Cunningham  |  (heinous)@freenode #suse 
www.heinous.org        |  Linux geek, et al.        
--------------------------------------------------
--
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 04:37:57 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 04:37:57 +0000
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <200503142247.21214.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200503150437.58013.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 15, 2005 03:47 am, Gary Layng wrote:
> A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
> database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing I
> know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
>
> I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
> created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
> computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and etc.,
> but the new version is demanding either one of these database programs (or
> Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to be avoided...),
> and the only database program I have is mySQL.

Have you looked into SQL-Ledger ?

http://www.sql-ledger.org/

It works extremely well, and can be used with PostgreSQL, Oracle, or DB2 
( sorry no mySQL ).

There is a good article here 
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7290

Give the live demo a try
http://abacus.sql-ledger.com/sql-ledger/login.pl

List of features:

    *  Accounts Receivable
    * Accounts Payable
    * General Ledger
    * Inventory Control
    * Billing / Invoicing
    * Check Printing
    * Purchase / Sales Orders
    * Customizable Taxes
    * Multi-user
    * Multi-company
    * Audit Control
    * Foreign Currency
    * Internationalization
    * Access Control
    * SQL server backend
    * Customizable Templates
    * Customers
    * Vendors
    * Assemblies (BOM, kits)
    * Chart of Accounts
    * Customizable Reports
    * Financial Statements
    * Administration Module
    * Backup to file/email
    * Application Interface
    * Use on Handheld 

and of course it is released under the GPL

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 05:26:30 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:26:30 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <200503150437.58013.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <200503150437.58013.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <200503150026.31078.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 14, 2005 23:37, Jason Shein wrote:
> On March 15, 2005 03:47 am, Gary Layng wrote:
> > A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
> > database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing
> > I know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
> >
> > I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
> > created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
> > computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and
> > etc., but the new version is demanding either one of these database
> > programs (or Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to
> > be avoided...), and the only database program I have is mySQL.
>
> Have you looked into SQL-Ledger ?

Have you looked at Quasar Accounting? :) I have both installed and working. 
The UI in Quasar, though it is not stellar, is miles ahead of SQL-Ledger. I 
can understand using an HTML form interface for occasional use but to use it 
intensively every day seems painful. What is the difference between HTML 
forms and green screen apps, other than pretty icons? Not much, other than 
the HTML app is probably less robust and more susceptible to things like 
cross site scripting or SQL injection attacks.

It is quite possible that SQL-Ledger's back end is superiour to that of Quasar 
Accounting but I think the front end of SQL-Ledger leaves much to be desired. 
I know there is a SOAP interface, which is well documented by our very own 
Christopher Browne in the Wrox Press book "Professional Open Source Web 
Services", but having the interface alone does not an application make.

Having said that, just releasing source under the GPL is not enough to form a 
community either. Quasar is woefully underdocumented and it is all C++ code. 
There is not one .ui file to be found anywhere in the project so forget about 
trying to use Qt Designer to modify it or trying to use a more productive 
language like Python through the PyQt bindings to modify Quasar.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
--
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 05:27:17 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:27:17 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <200503142247.21214.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200503150027.17708.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 14, 2005 22:47, Gary Layng wrote:
> A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
> database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing I
> know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
>
> I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
> created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
> computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and etc.,
> but the new version is demanding either one of these database programs (or
> Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to be avoided...),
> and the only database program I have is mySQL.

I was just trolling through the list archives for Quasar having just installed 
it last week. I got the impression that the Firebird version was immature. 
That does not bother me as PostgreSQL is an excellent database. Most distros 
have a package for it. I have compiled it from source a few times without any 
problems so there is always that option if you cannot find a package for your 
distro. Note: the Quasar installation docs have the order of things wrong. 
You must create the PostgreSQL database *before* attempting to connect to it 
from Quasar.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 14:18:13 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:18:13 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <200503142247.21214.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 10:47:21PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote:
> A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird database 
> programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing I know about 
> them is that they're both open source database programs.
> 
> I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program created 
> by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single computer" 
> non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and etc., but the new 
> version is demanding either one of these database programs (or Sybase, which 
> is proprietary, and therefore if possible to be avoided...), and the only 
> database program I have is mySQL.

Well at least postgresql is in use by many people.  Never heard of
firebird.  I wonder if it is something at the level of MS Access.
Postgresql is very easy to setup and use in general and has very good
performance.

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 14:39:09 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:39:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fwd: Google Job Posting for Computer Science Alumni
In-Reply-To: <42365834.1000302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42365834.1000302@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050315143909.14384.qmail@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey if they throw in free Guinness for a year I'll relocate to Ireland! ;-)

Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:I thought some people here might be interested in this. It didn't come 
directly through me so don't bother asking me any specifics.

Regards,
Marcus

Forwarded message:

>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Google Job Posting for Computer Science Alumni?
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:19:01 -0500
> From: mdove 
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I am a recruiter from Google headquarters in Mountain View, 
> California. We are searching for the best Computer Scientists in the 
> world. The two positions are listed below. They are based in Dublin, 
> Ireland or Mountain View, California.
>
> Marianne Dove
>
> Google Recruiter
>
> 650-623-6814
>
> mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 
>
> Mountain View, CA
>
> Job #1
>
> Google
>
> Linux Cluster Systems Administrator/Expert Scripter
>
> Positions based in Dublin, Ireland or Mountain View, CA
>
> Relocation a must-assistance provided.
>
> Google's Cluster Operations team is looking for talented system
>
> administrators to help administer Google's complex, proprietary
>
> clustering technologies. Literally thousands of Linux servers power
>
> the technology behind Google.com, and it's a real challenge to
>
> administer these effectively. Google's Cluster Operations team needs
>
> seasoned system administrators to automate complex tasks across a huge
>
> cluster.
>
> Responsibilities:
>
> * automation of tasks as much as possible through the development of
>
> scripts and administration tools
>
> * configuration of system and network parameters
>
> * monitoring of system stability and performance
>
> * ensuring 24x7 operation of our cluster
>
> * comprehensive documentation of our procedures
>
> Requirements:
>
> * B.S. in Computer Science, or equivalent experience
>
> * 4+ years experience with Linux Systems Administration
>
> *Deep understanding of networking ie: understanding of how to isolate, 
> diagnose, and resolve service delivery components (service delivery 
> components include servers, networks, and applications); be familiar 
> with the functionality, operating, and failure modes of key networking 
> devices (routers, switches, bridges, firewalls, hardware load 
> balancers); be able to identify networking as the potential cause of a 
> service issue using server-resident tools to generate this data (i.e. 
> tcpdump, ping, traceroute, etc.); familiarity in interpreting the 
> output of these tools; familiarity with common network topologies, 
> protocols, and tools; have some notion of common network security 
> exploits -- and their remedies; understanding of troubleshooting at 
> the packet level; intimate knowledge of TCP/IP networking
>
> * strong programming and scripting ability (Python, Perl, bash)
>
> * excellent verbal and written skills
>
> * outstanding customer service abilities
>
> Email resumes to: mdove-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 
>
> Job #2
>
> Engineering Hands-On Technical Manager/Director Google.com
> Positions based in Dublin, Ireland or Mountain View, California.
> Relocation a must-relocation assistance provided.
>
>
>
>
>
> Are you the kind of Manager that is just as highly technical as the 
> staff you manage in Software Development? Although strategic 
> management is part of this job the technical competence of this 
> manager/director is key in this role.
>
>
> Do you presently have expert coding ability and in-depth knowledge of 
> algorithms?
>
>
>
> We're looking for a highly technical, hands-on Engineer or Operations 
> Manager to lead a team of 4-10+ Google software engineers and systems 
> administrators for the Google.com group. The Google.com teams are 
> directly responsible for Google's stellar uptime record, and act as 
> the guardians and custodians of Google's user-visible services. In 
> this leadership role, you will be responsible for ensuring that Google 
> users can always reach and use all of the services under your team's 
> care.
>
>
>
>
>
> Requirements:
> ??Very high technical competence and strong academic record.
>
> ??BA/BS in Computer Science; MS / Ph.D. a plus.
>
> ??In-depth knowledge of algorithms
>
> ??Unix platform experience.
>
> ??Expert coding ability in any of the following languages: C++, C, 
> Python, Java, Perl, PHP, or Shell.
>
> ??Deep understanding of networking ie: understanding of how to isolate, 
> diagnose, and resolve service delivery components (service delivery 
> components include servers, networks, and applications); be familiar 
> with the functionality, operating, and failure modes of key networking 
> devices (routers, switches, bridges, firewalls, hardware load 
> balancers); be able to identify networking as the potential cause of a 
> service issue using server-resident tools to generate this data (i.e. 
> tcpdump, ping, traceroute, etc.); familiarity in interpreting the 
> output of these tools; familiarity with common network topologies, 
> protocols, and tools; have some notion of common network security 
> exploits -- and their remedies; understanding of troubleshooting at 
> the packet level
>
> ??* *Candidate must be able to ??talk the talk?? and ??walk the walk?? at 
> very technical meetings understanding the nature of problems in scale 
> and complexity and be able to have the verbal agility to communicate 
> to technically astute teams across the company. 
> ??Experienced in an internet application service environment preferable. 
> ??3-10+ years of relevant hands-on experience managing software 
> development and/or operations teams.
> ??Strong project management skills, especially in deploying live 
> end-user systems.
> ??That rare mix of intelligence, integrity, domain knowledge, verbal 
> agility, and diplomacy which allows you to rapidly earn the trust of 
> technically-astute teams across the company.
>
>
>
>
> For immediate consideration, please send a text (ASCII) or HTML or 
> PDF version of your resume to:
>
>
>
> mdove-hpIqsD4AKleXj1p+fO2waQ at public.gmane.org
>
>

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From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:14:26 2005
From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:14:26 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
Message-ID: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca>

Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and 
then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
At this point the computer hangs.
Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some other 
quirk is preventing the loading?
Any suggestions?
John
.
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:25:35 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:25:35 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <20050315141813.GJ31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 15, 2005 09:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 10:47:21PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote:
> > A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
> > database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing
> > I know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
> >
> > I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
> > created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
> > computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and
> > etc., but the new version is demanding either one of these database
> > programs (or Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to
> > be avoided...), and the only database program I have is mySQL.
>
> Well at least postgresql is in use by many people.  Never heard of
> firebird.  I wonder if it is something at the level of MS Access.

Not even close. Firebird was known as Borland Interbase before it was released 
under some Open Source license. After the source was released, someone 
noticed that a back door password had been hard coded in the server for the 
convenience of Borland support.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:38:07 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:38:07 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503151014.26489.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <20050315153807.GK31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 10:14:26AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote:
> Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
> I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
> When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and 
> then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
> At this point the computer hangs.
> Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some other 
> quirk is preventing the loading?
> Any suggestions?

Well it could be:
Defective RAM
Defective CPU
Defective motherboard
Defective software

Try a different distribution.

Could also be some bios setting that is wrong.  Not unlikely on a
machine like that actually.  how much ram does the kernel show on boot
as detected?  How much is actually in the system?  Does the installer
have a text mode?

Lennart Sorensen
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:42:27 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:42:27 +0000
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503151014.26489.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <200503151542.27715.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 15, 2005 03:14 pm, John Wildberger wrote:
> Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
> I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
> When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and
> then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
> At this point the computer hangs.
> Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some
> other quirk is preventing the loading?
> Any suggestions?
> John
> .
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

This was a known problem in Mandrake 10.0 on some hardware configurations. You 
should be able to install using noprobe or text install.

10.1 is available now and 10.2 is in beta. Any particular reason you are not 
installing 10.1? It fixes a lot of known issues that 10.0 had.


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:59:13 2005
From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:59:13 -0800
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503151542.27715.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200503151542.27715.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <20050315155913.GO32127@unleashed.org>

Jason Shein (jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) [050315 07:45]:
> On March 15, 2005 03:14 pm, John Wildberger wrote:
> > Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
> > I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
> > When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and
> > then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
> > At this point the computer hangs.
> > Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some
> > other quirk is preventing the loading?
> > Any suggestions?
> > John
> > .
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> This was a known problem in Mandrake 10.0 on some hardware configurations. You 
> should be able to install using noprobe or text install.
> 
> 10.1 is available now and 10.2 is in beta. Any particular reason you are not 
> installing 10.1? It fixes a lot of known issues that 10.0 had.

Another thought is to type at the first boot screen of the installer
the option "acpi=off" off.

Leah

-- 
Must not turn into a snake.  It never helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Leah R. M. Cunningham  |  (heinous)@freenode #suse 
www.heinous.org        |  Linux geek, et al.        
--------------------------------------------------
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From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 15:56:53 2005
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:56:53 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <1110501617.6405.17.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <200503151056.53911.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Thursday 10 March 2005 19:40, Alan Cohen wrote:
> I've been using an alphanumeric pager for years. The source of most of
> the messages has always been computer systems that tell me when they're
> in trouble. These messages come via Internet (SNPP) and dialup (TAP) for
> cases when the trouble is Internet connectivity.
>
> I'm thinking about using a cellular phone and would need at least the
> same functionality. So I guess there are 3 questions:
>  (1)the phone
>  (2)the carrier
>  (3)the software (which I could write, I suppose) to make it all work.
>
> - I'd want to use SNPP/SMTP and TAP or something equivalent, ie:
> Internet with non-Internet fallback
> - One of the downsides heretofore is that the computer could know that
> its message had been sent, but couldn't know that its message had been
> received. Is "received confirmation" a possibility?
> - Any suggestions?

Don't overlook the option of hooking up an old Nokia to a server with a serial 
cable and running gnokii (http://www.gnokii.org/).  We use this setup back 
home to allow servers to send us SMS even when the network is down (Try doing 
that with an email-SMS gateway). 

You can also ask your server questions, by sending it an SMS and waiting for a 
response.  It's pretty cool, and I know Fido offer plans where you can get 
1000 SMS for $5 a month... that's only 1c a message.  Fido also don't charge 
for incoming SMS, or incomming calls (on most plans), which is the way it 
should be.

Regards,

David
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From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 18:37:29 2005
From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (J. Qiang Li)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:37:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Robert Brockway <rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Anthony de Boer wrote:
> 
> > One might expect the April meeting to be held on the 12th, that being the
> > second Tuesday.
> 
> An excellent point, and it is indeed scheduled for April 12th.
> 
> Rob

can we have another meeting which invites Mark Spencer over ? It's worthwhile IMO.


James.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 18:58:33 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:58:33 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503151014.26489.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105031510586736848c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:14:26 -0500, John Wildberger
<wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
> I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
> When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and
> then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
> At this point the computer hangs.
> Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some other
> quirk is preventing the loading?
> Any suggestions?

If you have a Knoppix CD handy, it's a great way to find out fast if
the hardware you're looking at will work or not. It's certainly not a
definitive test, but it's a good tool to have in your tool box.

Alex
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From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:24:55 2005
From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:24:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <74c3a1fa05031511201df7826a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com>
 <74c3a1fa05031511201df7826a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151421250.29553-100000@iran.unitycode.org>

I msg'ed him earlier today, he's open to doing a talk if he can fit it
into his schedule.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, J. Qiang Li wrote:

>
> --- Robert Brockway <rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Anthony de Boer wrote:
> >
> > > One might expect the April meeting to be held on the 12th, that being the
> > > second Tuesday.
> >
> > An excellent point, and it is indeed scheduled for April 12th.
> >
> > Rob
>
> can we have another meeting which invites Mark Spencer over ? It's
> worthwhile IMO.
>
> James.
>
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:30:48 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:30:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Offer of CanIT CDs
In-Reply-To: <20050315124617.62AD62B3D9-1WX2iAnhvdWVv0GNigkn8w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315124617.62AD62B3D9@smtp.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503151425120.30753@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Gilles Fourchet wrote:

> Hi Rob,
> 
> Do you know this product?  I mean, compared to other open source solutions 
> like SpamAssassin, is it better or does it have any significant advantages?

We have some clients that use CanIT-PRO and this and it does seem to 
perform very well.  CanIT-PRO = CanIT + some nice features.

Disclaimer: We have no relationship with Roaring Penguin 
Software Inc other than occasionally liasing with them on behalf of 
clients.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:34:40 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:34:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151421250.29553-100000-lkn/ztfFZq2a4o8cOB7kKB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com>
 <74c3a1fa05031511201df7826a@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151421250.29553-100000@iran.unitycode.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503151432050.30753@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:

> I msg'ed him earlier today, he's open to doing a talk if he can fit it
> into his schedule.

There are several things we need to coordinate:

1.  The room.
2.  Mark.
3.  Other stuff, I'm sure.

Shall we start by getting Mark to indicate days he will be able to speak 
and we'll try to get a room.

Simon, do you want to contact Mark again?

How do you feel about taking charge of this project?

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:41:50 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:41:50 -0500
Subject: Location of Apache's DocumentRoot
Message-ID: <42373A7E.1030707@rogers.com>

Hi

First post to this list. I look forward to coming out to the meetings 
and connecting with helpful people :)

I have a long computer background, but Linux is still fairly new to me. 
I have some serious web development to do, and I will be using PHP and 
MySQL.

I have invested in a Linux box, and installed Mandrake 10.0.

I see quite a learning curve....

Right now, I need to set up the server to look much like a virtual web 
host. I can't see any guides/rational for determining where to put the 
documentroot directory. It seems to me it should be under /var but I 
don't have much confidence that I will make good decisions yet.

Suggestions?

And how do I set the permissions on this directory? I will need to use 
ftp to upload the web files.

Thanks in advance for help!

Stephen
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:49:36 2005
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:49:36 -0500
Subject: Location of Apache's DocumentRoot
In-Reply-To: <42373A7E.1030707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42373A7E.1030707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42373C50.7070405@knet.ca>


download SME.
It has everything all ready to go.
DNS server and your DNS records (just make a new  ibay for a new domain)
virtualhosting support
email support for multiple domains
spamassasin etc.

If you want a server that you can customize, and know will work, you 
cannot go wrong with SME.

If you want to build one yourself,  well...its pretty easy just from 
Apache alone, but to get real
internet DNS domains to work with virtualhosting, is a bit more complex.






Stephen wrote:

> Hi
>
> First post to this list. I look forward to coming out to the meetings 
> and connecting with helpful people :)
>
> I have a long computer background, but Linux is still fairly new to 
> me. I have some serious web development to do, and I will be using PHP 
> and MySQL.
>
> I have invested in a Linux box, and installed Mandrake 10.0.
>
> I see quite a learning curve....
>
> Right now, I need to set up the server to look much like a virtual web 
> host. I can't see any guides/rational for determining where to put the 
> documentroot directory. It seems to me it should be under /var but I 
> don't have much confidence that I will make good decisions yet.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> And how do I set the permissions on this directory? I will need to use 
> ftp to upload the web files.
>
> Thanks in advance for help!
>
> Stephen


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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 19:48:24 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:48:24 +0000
Subject: Location of Apache's DocumentRoot
In-Reply-To: <42373A7E.1030707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42373A7E.1030707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200503151948.24058.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 15, 2005 07:41 pm, Stephen wrote:
> Hi
>
> First post to this list. I look forward to coming out to the meetings
> and connecting with helpful people :)
>
> I have a long computer background, but Linux is still fairly new to me.
> I have some serious web development to do, and I will be using PHP and
> MySQL.
>
> I have invested in a Linux box, and installed Mandrake 10.0.
>
> I see quite a learning curve....
>
> Right now, I need to set up the server to look much like a virtual web
> host. I can't see any guides/rational for determining where to put the
> documentroot directory. It seems to me it should be under /var but I
> don't have much confidence that I will make good decisions yet.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> And how do I set the permissions on this directory? I will need to use
> ftp to upload the web files.
>
> Thanks in advance for help!
>
> Stephen

Try here for some tutorials for apache 1.3

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/tutorials.html

or here for 2.0

http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 20:15:10 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:15:10 -0500
Subject: Location of Apache's DocumentRoot
In-Reply-To: <42373A7E.1030707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42373A7E.1030707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050315201510.GL31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 02:41:50PM -0500, Stephen wrote:
> First post to this list. I look forward to coming out to the meetings 
> and connecting with helpful people :)
> 
> I have a long computer background, but Linux is still fairly new to me. 
> I have some serious web development to do, and I will be using PHP and 
> MySQL.
> 
> I have invested in a Linux box, and installed Mandrake 10.0.
> 
> I see quite a learning curve....
> 
> Right now, I need to set up the server to look much like a virtual web 
> host. I can't see any guides/rational for determining where to put the 
> documentroot directory. It seems to me it should be under /var but I 
> don't have much confidence that I will make good decisions yet.

Well Debian uses /var/www for Documentroot by default.  I have seen
other distributions use /home/httpd, and I am sure others have done yet
something else.

> Suggestions?
> 
> And how do I set the permissions on this directory? I will need to use 
> ftp to upload the web files.

Well certainly the dir and files have to be readable by the user apache
runs as (although it certainly does not, and probably should not, be
writeable by apache user (ie www-data user on Debian)).  Depending on
config, apache will not follow symlinks at all, or it will only follow a
symlink owned by the same user that owns the target of the symlink or it
will follow all symlinks.  If you use symlinks at all this is owrth
keeping in mind.

Lennart Sorensen
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 20:27:34 2005
From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:27:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <74c3a1fa05031512146e001425-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> 
 <74c3a1fa05031511201df7826a@mail.gmail.com> 
 <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151421250.29553-100000@iran.unitycode.org> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503151432050.30753@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <74c3a1fa05031512146e001425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151518070.32146-100000@iran.unitycode.org>

Sure, I'll take it on.

The Toronto Asterisk users group has asked him to speak as well, so I'm
just waiting to hear back from their coordinator to see what they're
planning and whether they could accommodate TLUG showing up before trying
to get Mark to speak at a separate event.

re,
spd

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:

>
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> > I msg'ed him earlier today, he's open to doing a talk if he can fit it
> > into his schedule.
>
> There are several things we need to coordinate:
>
> 1.  The room.
> 2.  Mark.
> 3.  Other stuff, I'm sure.
>
> Shall we start by getting Mark to indicate days he will be able to speak
> and we'll try to get a room.
>
> Simon, do you want to contact Mark again?
>
> How do you feel about taking charge of this project?
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Robert Brockway B.Sc.
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
> Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
> Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
> --
>
> .:. Simon P. Ditner, Asterisk nut, http://uc.org/asterisk .:.
>
--
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From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 20:24:58 2005
From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:24:58 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca>

My interest has been in using Linux rather than making it work. As a 70-plus 
member of the great unwashed public, so to speak, my comments might be of 
interest. 
I installed SuSe 9.2 about six months ago. I would never have made it where I 
am now without the valiant efforts of my middle son. From that point of view 
SuSe is not for the faint of heart. Maybe Red Hat is easier.
That said, my expectations have been fulfilled 100%. I have a stable system 
that I can rely on. 
KDE, supplemented by a program called Kall, enables me to E-mail directly from 
my "Kontact" list of contacts and to have the computer dial their number when 
I want to phone them. That's a big help as one gets older and begins the 
embarrassing habit of getting digits in the wrong order.
I have just connected my new digital camera to the system and can use Gimp to 
manipulate the results. 
I enjoy Open Office programs and find browsing and picking up my E-mails fast 
and safe.
However, one or two concerns remain. Can anybody shed any light on them?
1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my speakers 
other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals around, or is every 
station a captive to you know who?
2. I like to listen to investment webcasts. But, once again, the companies 
concerned seem happy to limit themselves to Windows Media or the Windows 
version of Real Player. Even my broker, who has quite a good web site, has 
taken to telling me I must download the Acrobat Reader (Windows version is 
implied) to read my statements when I have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat 
reader that opens PDF files on other pages of the same broker's site for me 
daily.
Is there any way of persuading the great world out there that there are other 
computer users than Windows or Mac users, and that we have a right to be 
served in our own language? This is a real stumbling block we yet have to 
overcome.
Patrick

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 21:00:49 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:00:49 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20050315210049.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 03:24:58PM -0500, Patrick wrote:
> My interest has been in using Linux rather than making it work. As a 70-plus 
> member of the great unwashed public, so to speak, my comments might be of 
> interest. 
> I installed SuSe 9.2 about six months ago. I would never have made it where I 
> am now without the valiant efforts of my middle son. From that point of view 
> SuSe is not for the faint of heart. Maybe Red Hat is easier.
> That said, my expectations have been fulfilled 100%. I have a stable system 
> that I can rely on. 
> KDE, supplemented by a program called Kall, enables me to E-mail directly from 
> my "Kontact" list of contacts and to have the computer dial their number when 
> I want to phone them. That's a big help as one gets older and begins the 
> embarrassing habit of getting digits in the wrong order.
> I have just connected my new digital camera to the system and can use Gimp to 
> manipulate the results. 
> I enjoy Open Office programs and find browsing and picking up my E-mails fast 
> and safe.
> However, one or two concerns remain. Can anybody shed any light on them?
> 1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my speakers 
> other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals around, or is every 
> station a captive to you know who?
> 2. I like to listen to investment webcasts. But, once again, the companies 
> concerned seem happy to limit themselves to Windows Media or the Windows 
> version of Real Player. Even my broker, who has quite a good web site, has 
> taken to telling me I must download the Acrobat Reader (Windows version is 
> implied) to read my statements when I have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat 
> reader that opens PDF files on other pages of the same broker's site for me 
> daily.

On my system (running Debian 3.1 with addons from the Marillat
multimedia package archive) I can listen to realaudio and mediaplayer
broadcasts, although I often have to view the source of the web page to
find what the broken javascript they used was supposed to launch, go
to the correct page, view the source of that page, find the link to a
.mss or .asp or .ram or whatever media player file format they used,
download that and then launch that file with mplayer at which point it
works great.  It is an awful lot of work to go through for something
that should have been very simple if the page didn't have IE only
javascript and the link to the stream embedded in a silly file format.

I know some of it could be solved if the fiel associations for those
special files were added to make it launch mplayer on them
automatically, but hte broken javascript can only be fixed by either
adding more support for IE extensions to browsers on linux, or people
writing proper code on their webpages in the first place.

So it is technically possible to listen to those streams on Linux, it
just tends to be a real pain to get at the stream from Linux.

> Is there any way of persuading the great world out there that there are other 
> computer users than Windows or Mac users, and that we have a right to be 
> served in our own language? This is a real stumbling block we yet have to 
> overcome.

That part may be hard given many website maintainers have no idea what
they are doing and are just clicking buttons in MS FrontPage or
Dreamweaver.  So even if the page could easily be made to work for all
users, it is simpler (for them) to just make it work with IE or Windows
in general.

Lennart Sorensen
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From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 13 21:40:57 2005
From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:40:57 -0500
Subject: May need a PHP / MySQL programmer
Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050313162343.01ef7e58@mail.eol.ca>

I might be off topic but I hope not. What is the best way to find 
candidates to do PHP programming using MySQL to keep data and running on a 
Linux or BSD environment? I hold some faith that this reaches out to a lot 
of programmers to start with.  We hope to find someone who is economical or 
competitively priced. Knowing a bit about different common and exotic woods 
or at least some basic knowledge of biological taxonomy (naming - species, 
genera, families, orders) would be a bonus and helpful.

This would be on an independent, freelance contract for a set of projects 
to maintain and grow a knowledge base on
wood and to help set us up to host many ads on wood and wood based topics.

Anyone who might be interested could contact me either by email or phoning 
me at (905) 822-6088.

Bill Mudry
Mississauga, ON


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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 15 23:51:56 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:51:56 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4237751C.3070707@sympatico.ca>

Patrick;

I can listen to several radio stations using xmms. These stations are 
all shoutcasts, so I'm not sure it's the same thing as what you are 
hoping for. But it is live radio.

As for your broker not being very concerned about your situation, 
perhaps a serious suggestion that you'd rather be dealing with a company 
that knows how to setup web sites properly?

Patrick wrote:

>My interest has been in using Linux rather than making it work. As a 70-plus 
>member of the great unwashed public, so to speak, my comments might be of 
>interest. 
>I installed SuSe 9.2 about six months ago. I would never have made it where I 
>am now without the valiant efforts of my middle son. From that point of view 
>SuSe is not for the faint of heart. Maybe Red Hat is easier.
>That said, my expectations have been fulfilled 100%. I have a stable system 
>that I can rely on. 
>KDE, supplemented by a program called Kall, enables me to E-mail directly from 
>my "Kontact" list of contacts and to have the computer dial their number when 
>I want to phone them. That's a big help as one gets older and begins the 
>embarrassing habit of getting digits in the wrong order.
>I have just connected my new digital camera to the system and can use Gimp to 
>manipulate the results. 
>I enjoy Open Office programs and find browsing and picking up my E-mails fast 
>and safe.
>However, one or two concerns remain. Can anybody shed any light on them?
>1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my speakers 
>other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals around, or is every 
>station a captive to you know who?
>2. I like to listen to investment webcasts. But, once again, the companies 
>concerned seem happy to limit themselves to Windows Media or the Windows 
>version of Real Player. Even my broker, who has quite a good web site, has 
>taken to telling me I must download the Acrobat Reader (Windows version is 
>implied) to read my statements when I have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat 
>reader that opens PDF files on other pages of the same broker's site for me 
>daily.
>Is there any way of persuading the great world out there that there are other 
>computer users than Windows or Mac users, and that we have a right to be 
>served in our own language? This is a real stumbling block we yet have to 
>overcome.
>Patrick
>
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 01:14:36 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:14:36 -0500
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <20050315183730.79563.qmail-EVxZuBpqR9+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4237887C.9030507@rogers.com>

J. Qiang Li wrote:

> can we have another meeting which invites Mark Spencer over ? It's worthwhile IMO.

Just out of curiousity, who is "Mark Spencer"?
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 01:24:46 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:24:46 -0500
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <4237887C.9030507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> <4237887C.9030507@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050316012446.GA4873@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 08:14:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
>J. Qiang Li wrote:
>
>>can we have another meeting which invites Mark Spencer over ? It's 
>>worthwhile IMO.
>
>Just out of curiousity, who is "Mark Spencer"?

Try "mark spencer linux" in Google.
-- 

yours,

William

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From jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 01:29:47 2005
From: jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:29:47 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <20050315210049.GM31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> <20050315210049.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <42378C0B.2070009@istop.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 03:24:58PM -0500, Patrick wrote:
>  
>
>>My interest has been in using Linux rather than making it work. As a 70-plus 
>>member of the great unwashed public, so to speak, my comments might be of 
>>interest. 
>>I installed SuSe 9.2 about six months ago. I would never have made it where I 
>>am now without the valiant efforts of my middle son. From that point of view 
>>SuSe is not for the faint of heart. Maybe Red Hat is easier.
>>That said, my expectations have been fulfilled 100%. I have a stable system 
>>that I can rely on. 
>>KDE, supplemented by a program called Kall, enables me to E-mail directly from 
>>my "Kontact" list of contacts and to have the computer dial their number when 
>>I want to phone them. That's a big help as one gets older and begins the 
>>embarrassing habit of getting digits in the wrong order.
>>I have just connected my new digital camera to the system and can use Gimp to 
>>manipulate the results. 
>>I enjoy Open Office programs and find browsing and picking up my E-mails fast 
>>and safe.
>>However, one or two concerns remain. Can anybody shed any light on them?
>>1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my speakers 
>>other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals around, or is every 
>>station a captive to you know who?
>>2. I like to listen to investment webcasts. But, once again, the companies 
>>concerned seem happy to limit themselves to Windows Media or the Windows 
>>version of Real Player. Even my broker, who has quite a good web site, has 
>>taken to telling me I must download the Acrobat Reader (Windows version is 
>>implied) to read my statements when I have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat 
>>reader that opens PDF files on other pages of the same broker's site for me 
>>daily.
>>    
>>
>
>On my system (running Debian 3.1 with addons from the Marillat
>multimedia package archive) I can listen to realaudio and mediaplayer
>broadcasts, although I often have to view the source of the web page to
>find what the broken javascript they used was supposed to launch, go
>to the correct page, view the source of that page, find the link to a
>.mss or .asp or .ram or whatever media player file format they used,
>download that and then launch that file with mplayer at which point it
>works great.  It is an awful lot of work to go through for something
>that should have been very simple if the page didn't have IE only
>javascript and the link to the stream embedded in a silly file format.
>
>I know some of it could be solved if the fiel associations for those
>special files were added to make it launch mplayer on them
>automatically, but hte broken javascript can only be fixed by either
>adding more support for IE extensions to browsers on linux, or people
>writing proper code on their webpages in the first place.
>
>So it is technically possible to listen to those streams on Linux, it
>just tends to be a real pain to get at the stream from Linux.
>
>  
>
>>Is there any way of persuading the great world out there that there are other 
>>computer users than Windows or Mac users, and that we have a right to be 
>>served in our own language? This is a real stumbling block we yet have to 
>>overcome.
>>    
>>
>
>That part may be hard given many website maintainers have no idea what
>they are doing and are just clicking buttons in MS FrontPage or
>Dreamweaver.  So even if the page could easily be made to work for all
>users, it is simpler (for them) to just make it work with IE or Windows
>in general.
>
>Lennart Sorensen
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>  
>
Well said Lennart, the other part of the problem is that both Microsoft 
and Apple have large advertising and promotion budgets that most people 
only see the big players even though there are better alternatives.

Patrick as to radio stations without hassles.  I regularly listen to a 
couple of old time radio broadcasts, both play nicely on real player 
Linux.  http://www.yesterdayusa.com (7x24)  http://www.radiospirits.com 
  (a couple of programs a day)

Grant Cullen
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 01:49:53 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:49:53 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
Message-ID: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>

What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?

I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
    <http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 02:06:47 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:06:47 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <001001c529cc$e10a6830$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

From: "William Park" <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
To: <TLUG-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March, 2005 20:49
Subject: [TLUG]: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
>
> What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
>
> I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
>
<http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
> which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
> experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.
>
> -- 
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
> Slackware Linux -- because it works.
> --

Some interesting technical facts can be found here:
http://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr2sdram/

(you need Acrobat Reader to access the documents).

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 03:37:02 2005
From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:37:02 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <20050315141813.GJ31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200503152237.02972.glayng@sympatico.ca>

Thanks, guys.  Postgresql it is.

One of our senior IT guys at work hadn't even heard of postgreSQL...

On March 15, 2005 09:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 10:47:21PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote:
> > A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
> > database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing
> > I know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
> >
> > I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
> > created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
> > computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and
> > etc., but the new version is demanding either one of these database
> > programs (or Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to
> > be avoided...), and the only database program I have is mySQL.
>
> Well at least postgresql is in use by many people.  Never heard of
> firebird.  I wonder if it is something at the level of MS Access.
> Postgresql is very easy to setup and use in general and has very good
> performance.
>
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

-- 
there's no place like 127.0.0.1
--
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 05:16:32 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:16:32 +0000
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316014953.GA2502-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200503160516.32850.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 16, 2005 01:49 am, William Park wrote:
> What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
>
> I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
>    
> <http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
> which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
> experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.


I have Dual channel DDR running on one of my motherboards.

What it means is that there are 2 memory controllers on the board, one for 
each DDR strip. 

Often ( as it is on my main pc ) 
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K7N2_Delta-ILSR&class=mb
you have the option of installing in single or dual channel mode.

I have 2x512 DDR400. If I install both sticks in the purple slots ( see link ) 
I am running in single channel mode. If I install in the 1st purple slot and 
the green slot I am running in dual channel mode.

Now that I am thinking of it, maybe I should benchmark this sometime to see 
what the real performance difference is, if any. From what I have seen on the 
gamer forum postings, running in single channel often yields better results 
for overclocking, but in theory dual channel should be faster overall.
 
-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 06:20:48 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:20:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151518070.32146-100000-lkn/ztfFZq2a4o8cOB7kKB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> 
 <74c3a1fa05031511201df7826a@mail.gmail.com> 
 <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151421250.29553-100000@iran.unitycode.org> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503151432050.30753@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <74c3a1fa05031512146e001425@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503151518070.32146-100000@iran.unitycode.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503160119140.30753@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote:

> Sure, I'll take it on.
> 
> The Toronto Asterisk users group has asked him to speak as well, so I'm
> just waiting to hear back from their coordinator to see what they're
> planning and whether they could accommodate TLUG showing up before trying
> to get Mark to speak at a separate event.

That is a fabulous idea.  Logistically much more straight forward.

I hope this arrangement works for the Asterisk user group.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 06:27:13 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:27:13 -0500
Subject: Mark Spencer in Toronto next month.
In-Reply-To: <20050316012446.GA4873-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050315183730.79563.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <4237887C.9030507@rogers.com>
	 <20050316012446.GA4873@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa0503152227163d9dd5@mail.gmail.com>

William O'Higgins wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
> >Just out of curiousity, who is "Mark Spencer"?
> 
> Try "mark spencer linux" in Google.

This answer reminded me of the following fun page,

http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/search.pl?query=mark+spencer+linux

Franco

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 11:23:07 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:23:07 +0200 (IST)
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <200503160516.32850.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <200503160516.32850.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503161322230.1236@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Jason Shein wrote:

> Now that I am thinking of it, maybe I should benchmark this sometime to see
> what the real performance difference is, if any. From what I have seen on the
> gamer forum postings, running in single channel often yields better results
> for overclocking, but in theory dual channel should be faster overall.

Reboot and run memtest from a knoppix cd ? This would be interesting to 
see. memtest is not a benchmark but it shows ram bandwidth immediately.

Peter
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 12:21:06 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:21:06 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <200503160516.32850.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <001c01c52a22$b2e6c510$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>


From: "Jason Shein" <jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
> What it means is that there are 2 memory controllers on the board, one for
> each DDR strip.
>
> Often ( as it is on my main pc )
>
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K7N2_Delta-ILSR&class=mb
> you have the option of installing in single or dual channel mode.
>
> I have 2x512 DDR400. If I install both sticks in the purple slots ( see
link )
> I am running in single channel mode. If I install in the 1st purple slot
and
> the green slot I am running in dual channel mode.
>
> Now that I am thinking of it, maybe I should benchmark this sometime to
see
> what the real performance difference is, if any. From what I have seen on
the
> gamer forum postings, running in single channel often yields better
results
> for overclocking, but in theory dual channel should be faster overall.

This somehow emulates a bit what "memory interleaving" does on big iron
machines, which tries to
spread memory usage instead of always using the same area by starting at one
end and filling up as required.

With lots of activity that uses lots of memory it make a difference compared
to single-channel, but if you only use your
machine as a "single user" especially on Windoze I doubt there will be any
real advantage...

However on a Linux box running services and many other things like database
software there
might be a noticeable difference since Linux tries to fill the memory before
doing any swapping.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 13:59:49 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:59:49 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316014953.GA2502-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 08:49:53PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
> 
> I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
>     <http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
> which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
> experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.

Dual channel means you take two sticks of memory and run them in
parallel so you have twice the bandwidth available.  This works by
having two memory controllers running the memory as two seperate chunks
of memory.  Access to memory is then split evenly across the two chunks
(usually works best if you have each chunk identical size so you can
alternate between the two chunks for every address).

So assuming you have 64bit memory (most is today) you would have bytes
layed out like this:

Channel1 Channel2
01234567 89ABCDEF

So if you go to read 128bytes you get the throughput of both channels at
the same time.  Most benchmarks I have seen indicate a 5 to 10% boost in
speed on AMD systems, and usually a bit more than that on P4 (the P4 is
more bandwidth hungry because of a very large cacheline size, which
makes it read a big chunk every time it accesses memory).

DDR2 is simply a new version of DDR designed to allow higher clock
speeds and lower latencies.  Some boards support both (but NOT at the
same time).

Lennart Sorensen
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:01:30 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:01:30 -0500
Subject: Databases
In-Reply-To: <200503152237.02972.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503152237.02972.glayng@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <42384A4A.6090108@ca.afilias.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Well, Afilias uses Postgres to run the .org and .info registries. If
your management is getting FUD, please contact me off-list and I'll see
about getting one of my managers to talk with them.

We're always keen to improve the postgres talent pool, especially in
Toronto. Makes hiring easier, and that's important for a growing company.

- --
Andrew Hammond    416-673-4138    ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org
Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp.
CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A


Gary Layng wrote:
| Thanks, guys.  Postgresql it is.
|
| One of our senior IT guys at work hadn't even heard of postgreSQL...
|
| On March 15, 2005 09:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
|
|>On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 10:47:21PM -0500, Gary Layng wrote:
|>
|>>A somewhat esoteric seeming question about PostgreSQL  and Firebird
|>>database programs, but: is one preferable over the other?  The only thing
|>>I know about them is that they're both open source database programs.
|>>
|>>I'm giving Quasar a try. ?It's a newly open-sourced accounting program
|>>created by this Calgary company. ?The earlier, "OK to use on a single
|>>computer" non-open-source licence version was no biggie for setup and
|>>etc., but the new version is demanding either one of these database
|>>programs (or Sybase, which is proprietary, and therefore if possible to
|>>be avoided...), and the only database program I have is mySQL.
|>
|>Well at least postgresql is in use by many people.  Never heard of
|>firebird.  I wonder if it is something at the level of MS Access.
|>Postgresql is very easy to setup and use in general and has very good
|>performance.
|>
|>Lennart Sorensen
|>--
|>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
|>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
|>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
|
|
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:05:06 2005
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:05:06 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <423804D2.12315.A5AAF45@localhost>



On 15 Mar 2005 at 15:24, Patrick wrote:

> 1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my
> speakers other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals around, or is
> every station a captive to you know who? 

Well, if you have RealAudio, there is CBC (cbc.ca) which has a simulcast for 
Radio 1 and 2. 

There is also http://www.cbcradio3.com/ (Click on the "Launch CBC Radio 3" 
Link), which is a kind of contemprary alternative/multimedia hybrid site. Not 
sure how you feel about "alternative contemporary" music. It comes with its own 
interactive player that cannot be briefly described. I've been having X-Windows 
troubles, and haven't had the chance to use Radio 3 on Linux, but I can say it 
does work in Firefox, which is present in both operating systems. Radio 3 is 
currently undergoing changes, but you can still get some idea from the site.

Other than that, it's a kind of discovery process. I find that you have to hear 
about this kind of stuff from other people. As of now, I only know of 
"alternative music" sites like shitkatapult.com, which deals mostly in techno 
stuff (usually of the milder kind; makes great background music). But these are 
not radio stations; they are just playlists.

IMO, any station worth listening to for music will not be listed on your 
default bookmarks in Explorer.

> 2. I like to listen to investment
> webcasts. But, once again, the companies concerned seem happy to limit
> themselves to Windows Media or the Windows version of Real Player. Even my
> broker, who has quite a good web site, has taken to telling me I must download
> the Acrobat Reader (Windows version is implied) to read my statements when I
> have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat reader that opens PDF files on other pages
> of the same broker's site for me daily. Is there any way of persuading the great
> world out there that there are other computer users than Windows or Mac users,
> and that we have a right to be served in our own language? This is a real
> stumbling block we yet have to overcome. Patrick
> 

Until 95% of the desktop market is no longer controlled by M$, then Windows 
will always be implied in all conversations regarding computers (unless you 
talk to us). :-)

Paul

=========================================================
Paul King            http://alimentarus.net
"Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are captains 
of our fate and masters of our soul" -- Unknown


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:04:41 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:04:41 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316135949.GN31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 08:59:49AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 08:49:53PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> > What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
> > 
> > I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
> >     <http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
> > which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
> > experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.
> 
> Dual channel means you take two sticks of memory and run them in
> parallel so you have twice the bandwidth available.  This works by
> having two memory controllers running the memory as two seperate chunks
> of memory.  Access to memory is then split evenly across the two chunks
> (usually works best if you have each chunk identical size so you can
> alternate between the two chunks for every address).
> 
> So assuming you have 64bit memory (most is today) you would have bytes
> layed out like this:
> 
> Channel1 Channel2
> 01234567 89ABCDEF
> 
> So if you go to read 128bytes you get the throughput of both channels at
> the same time.  Most benchmarks I have seen indicate a 5 to 10% boost in
> speed on AMD systems, and usually a bit more than that on P4 (the P4 is
> more bandwidth hungry because of a very large cacheline size, which
> makes it read a big chunk every time it accesses memory).
> 
> DDR2 is simply a new version of DDR designed to allow higher clock
> speeds and lower latencies.  Some boards support both (but NOT at the
> same time).

Thanks Lennart and Jason,

I'm trying to spec a server for thin-clients in purely "office"
environment.  Because of the saving on the client-side, I have room to
indulge on the server-side.  At the moment, I'm eyeing
    
    1. Abit AV8 (AMD64, dual-channel 4GB max)
    2. Tyan Tiger K8W (dual-Opteron, single-channel registered 8GB max)

If anyone has more than 4GB, was there an occasion when you really used
that much?  :-)

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:33:21 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:33:21 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316150441.GA2051-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:04:41AM -0500, William Park wrote:
> Thanks Lennart and Jason,
> 
> I'm trying to spec a server for thin-clients in purely "office"
> environment.  Because of the saving on the client-side, I have room to
> indulge on the server-side.  At the moment, I'm eyeing
>     
>     1. Abit AV8 (AMD64, dual-channel 4GB max)
>     2. Tyan Tiger K8W (dual-Opteron, single-channel registered 8GB max)

Typo... both are dual-channel.

> 
> If anyone has more than 4GB, was there an occasion when you really used
> that much?  :-)

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:42:00 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:42:00 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316150441.GA2051-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We run database machines on Celestica A8449 quad optreons w/ 16GB of
memory. If you want to do Opterons with > 4GB, you need a 64bit distro.
SuSE is the best, although debian isn't bad and is constantly improving.

But don't buy the Tyan Tiger K8W. The whole point of Opterons is the IO
interconnects. The K8W has only one (paired) memory bank, and it's hung
off the same processor which has all the other IO too. Terrible design.
Any of the Thunder series are far better, the Thunder K8WE is
particularly nice, although they still haven't really balanced the IO
for integrated components.

Also, the Opterons use single channel DDR memory because they have
superior memory and IO capabilities. There's no need for the hack that
is dual-channel. Instead, each CPU has two dedicated hypertransport
channels for memory.

Finally, I can strongly recommend Alliance Technologies (416-385-3255)
as an integrator / VAR for people interested in running Linux or BSD on
Opteron. We have been very pleased with both the quality of their work
and the excellent service. My only relation to them is as a very happy
customer. They're not the cheapest place to pick up hardware, but they
may be the most cost effective I've ever dealt with.

- --
Andrew Hammond    416-673-4138    ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org
Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp.
CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A


William Park wrote:
| On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 08:59:49AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
|
|>On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 08:49:53PM -0500, William Park wrote:
|>
|>>What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
|>>
|>>I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
|>>
<http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
|>>which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
|>>experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.
|>
|>Dual channel means you take two sticks of memory and run them in
|>parallel so you have twice the bandwidth available.  This works by
|>having two memory controllers running the memory as two seperate chunks
|>of memory.  Access to memory is then split evenly across the two chunks
|>(usually works best if you have each chunk identical size so you can
|>alternate between the two chunks for every address).
|>
|>So assuming you have 64bit memory (most is today) you would have bytes
|>layed out like this:
|>
|>Channel1 Channel2
|>01234567 89ABCDEF
|>
|>So if you go to read 128bytes you get the throughput of both channels at
|>the same time.  Most benchmarks I have seen indicate a 5 to 10% boost in
|>speed on AMD systems, and usually a bit more than that on P4 (the P4 is
|>more bandwidth hungry because of a very large cacheline size, which
|>makes it read a big chunk every time it accesses memory).
|>
|>DDR2 is simply a new version of DDR designed to allow higher clock
|>speeds and lower latencies.  Some boards support both (but NOT at the
|>same time).
|
|
| Thanks Lennart and Jason,
|
| I'm trying to spec a server for thin-clients in purely "office"
| environment.  Because of the saving on the client-side, I have room to
| indulge on the server-side.  At the moment, I'm eyeing
|
|     1. Abit AV8 (AMD64, dual-channel 4GB max)
|     2. Tyan Tiger K8W (dual-Opteron, single-channel registered 8GB max)
|
| If anyone has more than 4GB, was there an occasion when you really used
| that much?  :-)
|
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TKmaQElWFvljqhHPQCAz/aI=
=nnBJ
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 15:58:24 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:58:24 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <423853C8.7020901-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050316155824.GA2425@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> We run database machines on Celestica A8449 quad optreons w/ 16GB of
> memory. If you want to do Opterons with > 4GB, you need a 64bit distro.
> SuSE is the best, although debian isn't bad and is constantly improving.

Re-compiling just the kernel should suffice, no?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 16:58:16 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:58:16 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
Message-ID: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com>

Francois Ouellette wrote: 
> I have supported Ingres database servers running 24x7 with 700 interactive 
> users. I haven't seen too many Postgres or MySQL installations of that size! 

I help support several PostgreSQL instances of comparable size.

Hugh Redelmeier wrote: 
> | From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> 
>  
> Sorry, what you say strikes me as hype, not information.  That makes 
> me nit pick.  OK, I admit it, I nit pick anyway. 
>  
> | >From what I know Stonebreaker was the guy who first put in practice the 
> | theory developed by Codd and others and made it a commercial success. 

Actually, that's Michael Stonebraker.
 
> I seem to remember System R predating Ingres.  Not a commercial 
> success, but I think that it evolved into DB/2, which is successful 
> (not sure -- I don't pay much attention to database systems). 
>  
> | Postgres is a spinoff of Ingres and a research project, Ingres was the 
> | commercial version of the same concept. 
>  
> My understanding at the time was that Postgress was the successor as a 
> research project.  So it ought to have shiny new ideas (no longer new 
> now). 

The history is a bit different than that.

-> Stonebraker's group at UCB developed University Ingres

   http://s2k-ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:8000/ingres/

-> Stonebraker founded Ingres to commercialize this.  One of the
notable developments was that commercial Ingres added in an SQL
processor in addition to QUEL.

One of the interesting things there is that [so I hear] the query
optimizer for Ingres was pretty good particularly when they typically
involve a transformation from SQL to QUEL.

-> Stonebraker continued research work, creating Postgres

"Object relational," blah, blah, blah...

-> Postgres was commercialized as Illustra

-> Andrew Yu and Jolly Chen (grad students at UCB) added an SQL
processor to Postgres, creating Postgres-95

-> Subsequent work on Postgres-95 took place outside the university
setting such that it is no longer at all fair to consider PostgreSQL
to be "university-related."

-> Informix bought out Illustra, and integrated it into Informix
Universal Data Server

-> IBM bought out Informix, so that "Postgres" is now called DB2 :-).

> | More like an early "open source" 
> | before its time! 
>  
> There is no "before its time" for open source.  There has been open 
> source as long as there has been source. 
>  
> | Ingres has matured as a commercial enterprise-class software product while 
> | Postgres remained a university project. 
> |  
> | If you want the real thing, then go for Ingres! 
>  
> There has been a lot of work on Postgress making it a practical tool. 
> Outside UCB. 

It hasn't been a UCB project since about 1995 or 1996...
  
> I was hoping for a serious comparison, not just sloganeering. 

Indeed.

The way I see it, the "open sourcing" of Ingres looks like a
last-ditch attempt to get "free developers" to do maintenance work on
a product that CA is finding isn't viable to continue to support.

It looks plenty like the SAP-DB situation...

- Software AG had a database called Adabas-D, of similar maturity to Ingres.

In some ways, it's comparable to Oracle, but they weren't getting
particularly impressive sales.

- They sold it to SAP AG, who were interested in having "their own
database" as an alternative to Oracle, which is useful as a "stick"
any time license negotiations with Oracle go badly.

- SAP AG discovered that it was a rat's-nest of painful-to-maintain
code, and wasn't particularly interested in paying for maintainers. 
They released it under the GPL with libraries under the LGPL,
evidently hoping maintainers would appear out of the woodwork.

With code written in a mixture of Mainframe style with German
"mnemonics" alongside build tools that were arcane, maintainers didn't
appear.

- MySQL AB came to the table, proposing that they'd sell a
"recommercialized" version of SAP-DB, now called MaxDB, and that
they'd do some form of porting to bring it into being somewhat
compatible with their product line.

SAP-DB is "open source," but there is certainly no public community
around it.  Just like with MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and
other such products, they are _really_ commercial products with some
veneer of "try it for free."

I can't see that Ingres is that much different.  It may be that its
source code is less unreadable than SAP-DB, but it would seem
surprising for it to become of any great interest to the community at
large particularly when there are already vibrant communities of
developers surrounding other systems (notably PostgreSQL).
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 17:19:28 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:19:28 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316153321.GA2306-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:33:21AM -0500, William Park wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:04:41AM -0500, William Park wrote:
> > Thanks Lennart and Jason,
> > 
> > I'm trying to spec a server for thin-clients in purely "office"
> > environment.  Because of the saving on the client-side, I have room to
> > indulge on the server-side.  At the moment, I'm eyeing
> >     
> >     1. Abit AV8 (AMD64, dual-channel 4GB max)
> >     2. Tyan Tiger K8W (dual-Opteron, single-channel registered 8GB max)
> 
> Typo... both are dual-channel.

The dual opteron might even be dual channel per cpu.  Does that count as
quad channel? :) (no it doesn't).

For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
a bit slower.

What will this server be doing?

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 17:21:35 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <423853C8.7020901-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050316172135.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> We run database machines on Celestica A8449 quad optreons w/ 16GB of
> memory. If you want to do Opterons with > 4GB, you need a 64bit distro.
> SuSE is the best, although debian isn't bad and is constantly improving.

No, you only need 64bit if you want more than 2 or 3GB per process.  PAE
works just fine up to 64GB.  You will gain a bit of performance in some
cases going 64bit, although for some tasks you also use more ram since
pointers are 8 instead of 4 bytes each.

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 17:30:19 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:30:19 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316172135.GP31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info>
	 <20050316172135.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f05031609306765c858@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0500, Lennart Sorensen
<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> > We run database machines on Celestica A8449 quad optreons w/ 16GB of
> > memory. If you want to do Opterons with > 4GB, you need a 64bit distro.
> > SuSE is the best, although debian isn't bad and is constantly improving.
> 
> No, you only need 64bit if you want more than 2 or 3GB per process.  PAE
> works just fine up to 64GB.  You will gain a bit of performance in some
> cases going 64bit, although for some tasks you also use more ram since
> pointers are 8 instead of 4 bytes each.

PAE requires that I/O goes into "bounce buffers" that must be copied
to/from user process memory.

That's an extra set of memory copies that have a pretty appreciable cost...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 17:48:41 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:48:41 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f05031609306765c858-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info> <20050316172135.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <d6d6637f05031609306765c858@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050316174841.GQ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:30:19PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote:
> PAE requires that I/O goes into "bounce buffers" that must be copied
> to/from user process memory.
> 
> That's an extra set of memory copies that have a pretty appreciable cost...

Well true, and also true on Xeon EM64T in 64bit mode, but not the case
on AMD64 in 64bit mode, so yeah it does help on the amd systems, just
not on the intel systems.  So I guess it is a matter of the tradeoff
between that and the extra memory used by pointers and the advantages
some programs get from true 64bit arithmetic in the cpu.

Lennart Sorensen
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 18:05:42 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:05:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

> Christopher Browne wrote:
> <snip>
> SAP-DB is "open source," but there is certainly no public community
> around it.  Just like with MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and
> other such products, they are _really_ commercial products with some
> veneer of "try it for free."
> <snip>
> I can't see that Ingres is that much different.  It may be that its
> source code is less unreadable than SAP-DB, but it would seem
> surprising for it to become of any great interest to the community at
> large particularly when there are already vibrant communities of
> developers surrounding other systems (notably PostgreSQL).
> --

Having worked a bit with Adabas Natural at the time I can tell you it was
not as interesting to use as Ingres or Oracle were, especially on the
OpenVMS platform.

I agree that Postgres and other products benefit from a "vibrant"
community of contributors, and that putting Ingres in Open Source might
have been was an elegant way for CA to "dispose of" a product without
ditching it, letting others decide of its fate or success.

Nevertheless I think Ingres r3 is still an interesting and mature product
in the same league as the other major RDBMS products. Just do some 
research on "Ingres r3 Linux" and you will see that there is some interest
out there, even active forums.

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 20:08:43 2005
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:08:43 -0500
Subject: A newbie's observations
In-Reply-To: <42378C0B.2070009-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503142247.21214.glayng@sympatico.ca> <20050315141813.GJ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200503151025.36019.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <200503151524.59997.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> <20050315210049.GM31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42378C0B.2070009@istop.com>
Message-ID: <4238924B.6000203@golden.net>

Grant Cullen wrote:

> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 03:24:58PM -0500, Patrick wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> My interest has been in using Linux rather than making it work. As a 
>>> 70-plus member of the great unwashed public, so to speak, my 
>>> comments might be of interest. I installed SuSe 9.2 about six months 
>>> ago. I would never have made it where I am now without the valiant 
>>> efforts of my middle son. From that point of view SuSe is not for 
>>> the faint of heart. Maybe Red Hat is easier.
>>> That said, my expectations have been fulfilled 100%. I have a stable 
>>> system that I can rely on. KDE, supplemented by a program called 
>>> Kall, enables me to E-mail directly from my "Kontact" list of 
>>> contacts and to have the computer dial their number when I want to 
>>> phone them. That's a big help as one gets older and begins the 
>>> embarrassing habit of getting digits in the wrong order.
>>> I have just connected my new digital camera to the system and can 
>>> use Gimp to manipulate the results. I enjoy Open Office programs and 
>>> find browsing and picking up my E-mails fast and safe.
>>> However, one or two concerns remain. Can anybody shed any light on 
>>> them?
>>> 1. I have yet to find a radio station that will play music over my 
>>> speakers other than WBJC in Baltimore. Are there such animals 
>>> around, or is every station a captive to you know who?
>>> 2. I like to listen to investment webcasts. But, once again, the 
>>> companies concerned seem happy to limit themselves to Windows Media 
>>> or the Windows version of Real Player. Even my broker, who has quite 
>>> a good web site, has taken to telling me I must download the Acrobat 
>>> Reader (Windows version is implied) to read my statements when I 
>>> have a perfectly good Linux Acrobat reader that opens PDF files on 
>>> other pages of the same broker's site for me daily.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> On my system (running Debian 3.1 with addons from the Marillat
>> multimedia package archive) I can listen to realaudio and mediaplayer
>> broadcasts, although I often have to view the source of the web page to
>> find what the broken javascript they used was supposed to launch, go
>> to the correct page, view the source of that page, find the link to a
>> .mss or .asp or .ram or whatever media player file format they used,
>> download that and then launch that file with mplayer at which point it
>> works great.  It is an awful lot of work to go through for something
>> that should have been very simple if the page didn't have IE only
>> javascript and the link to the stream embedded in a silly file format.
>>
>> I know some of it could be solved if the fiel associations for those
>> special files were added to make it launch mplayer on them
>> automatically, but hte broken javascript can only be fixed by either
>> adding more support for IE extensions to browsers on linux, or people
>> writing proper code on their webpages in the first place.
>>
>> So it is technically possible to listen to those streams on Linux, it
>> just tends to be a real pain to get at the stream from Linux.
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Is there any way of persuading the great world out there that there 
>>> are other computer users than Windows or Mac users, and that we have 
>>> a right to be served in our own language? This is a real stumbling 
>>> block we yet have to overcome.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> That part may be hard given many website maintainers have no idea what
>> they are doing and are just clicking buttons in MS FrontPage or
>> Dreamweaver.  So even if the page could easily be made to work for all
>> users, it is simpler (for them) to just make it work with IE or Windows
>> in general.
>>
>> Lennart Sorensen
>>  
>>
> Well said Lennart, the other part of the problem is that both 
> Microsoft and Apple have large advertising and promotion budgets that 
> most people only see the big players even though there are better 
> alternatives.
>
> Patrick as to radio stations without hassles.  I regularly listen to a 
> couple of old time radio broadcasts, both play nicely on real player 
> Linux.  http://www.yesterdayusa.com (7x24)  
> http://www.radiospirits.com  (a couple of programs a day)
>
> Grant Cullen

Check out  http://www.live365.com/index.live
You may find what you are looking for.

John






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From jwatchus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 20:34:51 2005
From: jwatchus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Watchus)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:34:51 -0500
Subject: MythTV or Freevo experiences
Message-ID: <71323634050316123464377de4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I'm interested in setting up a linux based DVR using MythTV or Freevo
for example.  While I've done a fair amount of research at this point,
I'd really appreciate any feedback others may have from their personal
experiences in setting one up (or trying to).  What have been your
biggest challenges? How successful has it been? Any recommendations?

Thanks,

Jason
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 20:37:35 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:37:35 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316155824.GA2425-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info> <20050316155824.GA2425@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4238990F.5040203@ca.afilias.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

William Park wrote:
| On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:00AM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
|
|>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|>Hash: SHA1
|>
|>We run database machines on Celestica A8449 quad optreons w/ 16GB of
|>memory. If you want to do Opterons with > 4GB, you need a 64bit distro.
|>SuSE is the best, although debian isn't bad and is constantly improving.
|
|
| Re-compiling just the kernel should suffice, no?

It's substantially more complicated than that. Basically, if you have to
ask then you probably don't want to go into that level of complexity.
Especially when you can just slap on a solid distro and leave the work
to someone else.

- --
Andrew Hammond    416-673-4138    ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org
Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp.
CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A

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From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 20:37:36 2005
From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:37:36 -0500
Subject: MythTV or Freevo experiences
In-Reply-To: <71323634050316123464377de4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <71323634050316123464377de4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1111005456.4238991081661@geek-girls.ca>

Quoting Jason Watchus <jwatchus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:

> Hi,
> I'm interested in setting up a linux based DVR using MythTV or Freevo
> for example.  While I've done a fair amount of research at this point,
> I'd really appreciate any feedback others may have from their personal
> experiences in setting one up (or trying to).  What have been your
> biggest challenges? How successful has it been? Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason

My Myth box is next on the list after the asterisk box, but my friend who had it
set up highly recommended the Hauppage cards with the hardware MPEG encoders. 
They are extremely well supported, including their remotes.

-Leigh


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From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 20:50:05 2005
From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:50:05 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
Message-ID: <1111006205.42389bfda1231@geek-girls.ca>

Quoting Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:

> SAP-DB is "open source," but there is certainly no public community
> around it.  Just like with MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and
> other such products, they are _really_ commercial products with some
> veneer of "try it for free."

I'm not sure if you meant that to come across as dissmissive as it did to me,
but I think that a lot of users of OpenOffice, MySQL, and the various Mozilla
products would disagree with your assessment that we're just getting a "veneer"
of free use.

We're getting the full shebang, and the average home user is getting support
from the community, on IRC, messageboards, or email lists like this, whereas
enterprises can pay the vendors the big bucks to have someone to call.

And while I know that these projects have varying degrees of "openness" in terms
of development process, the communities around OO.o and Mozilla (not just
developpers!) are nothing to scoff at :-)

Just wanted to chip in, because I think that it's important to recognize the
value that both the user-driven communities and the commercial professional
services having to do with OSS are to the eventual success of the model.

-Leigh
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:06:47 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:06:47 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316171928.GO31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
> a bit slower.
> 
> What will this server be doing?

web, email, wordprocessing, standard office setting.  I personally
wouldn't mind waiting a while for an application.  But, I want to avoid
complaint from users who are used to Windows XP Pro on P4.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:09:47 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:09:47 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316174841.GQ31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info> <20050316172135.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <d6d6637f05031609306765c858@mail.gmail.com> <20050316174841.GQ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4238A09B.1060901@ca.afilias.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm sorry, but PAE works exactly as Chris described below. If anything,
he's too gentle describing the cost as "pretty appreciable". Consider
that for architectures which support this egregious hack, all the IO has
to pass over the Front Side Bus. The FSB is a bottleneck on modern
single processor systems and only gets worse with multiple processors.

On a Xeon system (EM64T or otherwise) an inbound IO now follows this
pattern:
1) northbridge -> FSB -> memory
2) context switch triggers page switch: memory -> FSB -> PAE controller
- -> FSB -> memory
3) memory -> FSB -> CPU (kernel)
4) CPU -> FSB -> memory
5) memory -> FSB -> PAE -> FSB -> memory
5) memory -> FSB -> CPU (application)

So, data in the bounce buffer (since Chris has us using BSD terminology)
goes through the FSB a total of 8 times. And this is assuming that
there's no cache stupidity due to processes migrating between CPUs.
EM64T makes the Xeon a 64bit chip in the same way that putting racing
strips and a big ass wing on the back of a '89 Pinto makes it a race car.

PAE is NOT supported on Opterons. The hardware to do paging just isn't
there. Running a 32bit OS on an Opteron with >4G of memory would be
foolish since the extra memory is inaccessible. There are some merits to
running 32bit code on an Opteron, which is what I assume you're talking
about here. Both SuSE and Redhat support the lib / lib64 convention.
However pointer storage space is, for most programs, not worth
considering. The real win (such as it is) from running in 32bit is that
the binaries are about 10% smaller on average and hence load from disk a
little quicker and consume a little less memory IO in operation.

- --
Andrew Hammond    416-673-4138    ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org
Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp.
CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A


Lennart Sorensen wrote:
| On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:30:19PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote:
|
|>PAE requires that I/O goes into "bounce buffers" that must be copied
|>to/from user process memory.
|>
|>That's an extra set of memory copies that have a pretty appreciable
cost...
|
|
| Well true, and also true on Xeon EM64T in 64bit mode, but not the case
| on AMD64 in 64bit mode, so yeah it does help on the amd systems, just
| not on the intel systems.  So I guess it is a matter of the tradeoff
| between that and the extra memory used by pointers and the advantages
| some programs get from true 64bit arithmetic in the cpu.
|
| Lennart Sorensen
| --
| The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
| TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From chrisjohn.clarke-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:16:56 2005
From: chrisjohn.clarke-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chris Clarke)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:16:56 -0500
Subject: MythTV or Freevo experiences
In-Reply-To: <71323634050316123464377de4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <71323634050316123464377de4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46c25a71050316131669762e0c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:34:51 -0500, Jason Watchus <jwatchus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm interested in setting up a linux based DVR using MythTV or Freevo
> for example.  While I've done a fair amount of research at this point,
> I'd really appreciate any feedback others may have from their personal
> experiences in setting one up (or trying to).  What have been your
> biggest challenges? How successful has it been? Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> --

Hi Jason,

    I've been using Myth for about 6 months now and I love it, one
site you should check out is wilsonet.com there is a (relatively) fool
proof walk through for setting it up under Fedora.

Chris
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:18:01 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:18:01 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316210647.GB3744-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4238A289.1080805@ca.afilias.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

William Park wrote:
| On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
|
|>For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
|>a bit slower.
|>
|>What will this server be doing?
|
|
| web, email, wordprocessing, standard office setting.  I personally
~              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Server? Sounds more like a workstation to me. I can't imagine why anyone
would put that kind of hardware into a workstation in this day and age.
Do you also swat flies with a sledgehammer?

| wouldn't mind waiting a while for an application.  But, I want to avoid
| complaint from users who are used to Windows XP Pro on P4.

If your problem is application _load_ time, then maybe you want to look
at the disks you're using. A pair of WD raptors in raid 0 will help your
load times for big apps quite a bit.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:25:37 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:25:37 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316210647.GB3744-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050316212536.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:06:47PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
> > a bit slower.
> > 
> > What will this server be doing?
> 
> web, email, wordprocessing, standard office setting.  I personally
> wouldn't mind waiting a while for an application.  But, I want to avoid
> complaint from users who are used to Windows XP Pro on P4.

How does that qualify as a server?  Sounds like a desktop to me.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:32:38 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:32:38 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <4238A09B.1060901-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <423853C8.7020901@ca.afilias.info> <20050316172135.GP31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <d6d6637f05031609306765c858@mail.gmail.com> <20050316174841.GQ31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4238A09B.1060901@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050316213238.GS31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:09:47PM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I'm sorry, but PAE works exactly as Chris described below. If anything,
> he's too gentle describing the cost as "pretty appreciable". Consider
> that for architectures which support this egregious hack, all the IO has
> to pass over the Front Side Bus. The FSB is a bottleneck on modern
> single processor systems and only gets worse with multiple processors.
> 
> On a Xeon system (EM64T or otherwise) an inbound IO now follows this
> pattern:
> 1) northbridge -> FSB -> memory
> 2) context switch triggers page switch: memory -> FSB -> PAE controller
> - -> FSB -> memory
> 3) memory -> FSB -> CPU (kernel)
> 4) CPU -> FSB -> memory
> 5) memory -> FSB -> PAE -> FSB -> memory
> 5) memory -> FSB -> CPU (application)
> 
> So, data in the bounce buffer (since Chris has us using BSD terminology)
> goes through the FSB a total of 8 times. And this is assuming that
> there's no cache stupidity due to processes migrating between CPUs.
> EM64T makes the Xeon a 64bit chip in the same way that putting racing
> strips and a big ass wing on the back of a '89 Pinto makes it a race car.
> 
> PAE is NOT supported on Opterons. The hardware to do paging just isn't
> there. Running a 32bit OS on an Opteron with >4G of memory would be
> foolish since the extra memory is inaccessible. There are some merits to
> running 32bit code on an Opteron, which is what I assume you're talking
> about here. Both SuSE and Redhat support the lib / lib64 convention.
> However pointer storage space is, for most programs, not worth
> considering. The real win (such as it is) from running in 32bit is that
> the binaries are about 10% smaller on average and hence load from disk a
> little quicker and consume a little less memory IO in operation.

Hmm here is the output on Linux from some dual Opteron system:
processor: 0
vendor_id: AuthenticAMD
cpu family: 15
model: 5
model name: AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 242
stepping: 1
cpu MHz: 1595.046
cache size: 1024 KB
fpu: yes
fpu_exception: yes
cpuid level: 1
wp: yes
flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips: 3178.49
TLB size: 1088 4K pages
clflush size: 64
address sizes: 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp

processor: 1
vendor_id: AuthenticAMD
cpu family: 15
model: 5
model name: AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 242
stepping: 1
cpu MHz: 1595.046
cache size: 1024 KB
fpu: yes
fpu_exception: yes
cpuid level: 1
wp: yes
flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips: 3185.04
TLB size: 1088 4K pages
clflush size: 64
address sizes: 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp

I wonder what the flags pae, pse and pse36 mean.

It would have been insane for AMD not to support intel's 64GB memory
access method since Windows wasn't going 64bit anytime soon, and being
able to use more than 4GB ram on such a system would be essential.  It
is possible that they actually avoid the whole mess behind the scenes
when doing the actual access, but to the software it has to look just
like an intel using pse36 and pae to access memory beyond 4GB.  That
would be clever use of the hardware's real abilities after all.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:44:34 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:44:34 +0000
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316212536.GR31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316212536.GR31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200503162144.34522.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 16, 2005 09:25 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:06:47PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > > For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
> > > a bit slower.
> > >
> > > What will this server be doing?
> >
> > web, email, wordprocessing, standard office setting.  I personally
> > wouldn't mind waiting a while for an application.  But, I want to avoid
> > complaint from users who are used to Windows XP Pro on P4.
>
> How does that qualify as a server?  Sounds like a desktop to me.
>

I think William forgot to mention he is looking at building a Thin Client 
server.

From the documentation at the K12LTSP project:

-snip-

Server 5 clients:
    *  CPU: One PIII 1 gig or faster
    * RAM: 512mb + (50mb for each client)
    * HD: ATA/100 10+gig IDE
    * Network: (2) 100/base cards and a 100base hub (8 or 16 port)

 Lab or Building Server 10+ clients:
    *  CPU: Two or more PIII or Xeon processors. AMD now has dual Athlon 
solutions but we have not tested any. (Offers?) ;-^)
    * RAM: 2gig or more (512mb + 50mb for each client) More ram = more speed
    * HD: UW SCSI drives, one for applications and one for /home
    * Network: (2 or more) 100/base cards and 100base hubs/switch (16 or 24 
port, switches are much faster with more clients)

-snip-

The info is a little out of date ( using pIII and dual athlons "now 
available" ) but the general ideas behind it are still relevant. New and 
faster CPU speeds will improve these numbers, but available memory is the 
most important factor.

more details here
http://k12ltsp.org/install.html#hardware

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 21:51:44 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:51:44 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <4238A289.1080805-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net> <4238A289.1080805@ca.afilias.info>
Message-ID: <20050316215144.GA3841@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:18:01PM -0500, Andrew Hammond wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> William Park wrote:
> | On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> |
> |>For some jobs maybe the ECC ram makes sense.  It also costs more and is
> |>a bit slower.
> |>
> |>What will this server be doing?
> |
> |
> | web, email, wordprocessing, standard office setting.  I personally
> ~              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Server? Sounds more like a workstation to me. I can't imagine why anyone
> would put that kind of hardware into a workstation in this day and age.
> Do you also swat flies with a sledgehammer?

No, no...  there are about upto 100 thin-clients.  I'm just playing
around with the specs for server which can service all those
thin-clients.  There will probably be more than 1 server.  But, as
starting point, 1GB spread over 100 users means 10MB/user which is good
enough, so I say it's do able with 1 server.

> 
> | wouldn't mind waiting a while for an application.  But, I want to avoid
> | complaint from users who are used to Windows XP Pro on P4.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 23:23:00 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:23:00 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 16, 2005 13:05, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> > Christopher Browne wrote:
> > <snip>
> > SAP-DB is "open source," but there is certainly no public community
> > around it.  Just like with MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and
> > other such products, they are _really_ commercial products with some
> > veneer of "try it for free."
> > <snip>
> > I can't see that Ingres is that much different.  It may be that its
> > source code is less unreadable than SAP-DB, but it would seem
> > surprising for it to become of any great interest to the community at
> > large particularly when there are already vibrant communities of
> > developers surrounding other systems (notably PostgreSQL).
> > --
>
> Having worked a bit with Adabas Natural at the time I can tell you it was
> not as interesting to use as Ingres or Oracle were, especially on the
> OpenVMS platform.
>
> I agree that Postgres and other products benefit from a "vibrant"
> community of contributors, and that putting Ingres in Open Source might
> have been was an elegant way for CA to "dispose of" a product without
> ditching it, letting others decide of its fate or success.
>
> Nevertheless I think Ingres r3 is still an interesting and mature product
> in the same league as the other major RDBMS products. Just do some
> research on "Ingres r3 Linux" and you will see that there is some interest
> out there, even active forums.

If this <http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/forum> is the "active forum" 
you speak of, it does not inspire confidence. First, it is a molasses in 
February slow Plone installation that could be running on a Pentium II/233 
with 64M of RAM. In fact, the cursory Google search you suggested above 
yielded a post to a mailing list complaining about this fact in the first 10 
results. Second, neither the number of messages nor the activity level on the 
forum is encouraging, though it could be that people do not use the forum 
because forum software in general is a pain to use. Perhaps Ingres folks hang 
out in comp.databases.ingres. If you want to see an "active forum", try 
#postgresql or subscribe to a few of the PostgreSQL mailing lists. There is a 
culture in the Open Source community that most vendors of proprietary 
software do not understand and one of the cultural norms is that Open Source 
developers tend to prefer IRC and mailing lists as opposed to "web" forums.

Looking at the home page for the Ingres site, what parts are Open Source and 
what parts are proprietary is not clear. There are links to "Complemantary 
Products" that I know are not Open Source. I have nothing against paying for 
tools or software but I want to understand exactly what is free (as in libre 
and gratis) and what is not and I do not want to spend an inordinate amount 
of time reading software licenses trying to figure out in which ways the "CA 
Trusted Open Source License" is really open, or not. That CA felt it 
necessary to come up with Yet Another Open Source License alone is not a good 
indication. What was the rationale there? There is no explanation of that.

I do not mind dual licensing schemes such as MySQL's or Trolltech's for Qt. 
Commercial license for proprietary software and a free license for free 
software is fair and acceptable. How CA fits into that scheme of things, I do 
not know nor do I have the time or the inclination to find out as it is not 
obvious in what ways Ingres is going to make my life better as a developer. 
What problems does Ingres solve that I cannot solve with other tools, like 
PostgreSQL for example? Why would Ingres be interesting to someone who is not 
already using Ingres and has legacy applications to support?

In the PDF docs that I downloaded from the Ingres site, there are frequent 
references to the 4GL but I have no idea if that is also Open Source, not 
that I care as I have no interest in creating green screen apps. Being able 
to support 700 concurrent users without falling over is not an especially 
impressive feat as there are many databases out there that can do that, 
including MySQL and PostgreSQL. That fact alone does not confer any special 
status to a database especially when there are so many factors that affect 
performance. What are those 700 users doing? Is it highly transactional? Is 
it mostly reporting? How big is the database? How normalized is the data? How 
intensive are the queries? What sort of hardware is it running on? Powerful 
hardware masks a lot of ills. How ACID compliant is it? These are only a few 
of the variables. It is difficult to distill such a complex thing into 
quotable sound bites like "30 year history", "enterprise database, or "700 
users", at least not for a technical audience anyway.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 16 23:39:07 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:39:07 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <20050316233907.GA4371@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 06:23:00PM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> In the PDF docs that I downloaded from the Ingres site, there are frequent 
> references to the 4GL but I have no idea if that is also Open Source, not 
> that I care as I have no interest in creating green screen apps. Being able 
> to support 700 concurrent users without falling over is not an especially 
> impressive feat as there are many databases out there that can do that, 
> including MySQL and PostgreSQL. That fact alone does not confer any special 
> status to a database especially when there are so many factors that affect 
> performance. What are those 700 users doing? Is it highly transactional? Is 
> it mostly reporting? How big is the database? How normalized is the data? How 
> intensive are the queries? What sort of hardware is it running on? Powerful 
> hardware masks a lot of ills. How ACID compliant is it? These are only a few 
> of the variables. It is difficult to distill such a complex thing into 
> quotable sound bites like "30 year history", "enterprise database, or "700 
> users", at least not for a technical audience anyway.

Throwing my thought into the mix... I looked at Ingres API, since that's
the only thing about database I'm interested in.  It really looked like
15 years old.  Going by API alone, PostgreSQL and SQLite were easy to
read, understand, and to code.  MySQL was a bit more complicated than it
should.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 00:47:42 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:47:42 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <001001c52a8a$ff3bcdd0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CLIFFORD ILKAY" <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 March, 2005 18:23
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Source Ingres for Linux
>
> If this <http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/forum> is the "active
forum"
> you speak of, it does not inspire confidence. First, it is a molasses in
> February slow Plone installation that could be running on a Pentium II/233
> with 64M of RAM. In fact, the cursory Google search you suggested above
> <etc>

Forum nevertheless. I never used it!

> Looking at the home page for the Ingres site, what parts are Open Source
and
> what parts are proprietary is not clear. There are links to "Complementary
> Products" that I know are not Open Source. I have nothing against paying
for
> <snip>
If you follow the links posted on the Ingres page:
http://opensource.ca.com/projects/ingres/files/ab.int.lnx.ga/ingres-3.0.1.109-readme.zip
you would have learned that the package comes with the RDBMS,
character-based query tools,
reporting tools, ABF and Vision development tools, character-based forms
editor, database Replicator,
pre-compilers for C and other 3GL, XML export/import utility, admin tools,
gateways including JDBC, etc

The Complemantary Products are such things as a OO GUI called OpenROAD which
is not Open Source
and must be purchased separately. It can work with Ingres and most other
RDBMS. Was originally the
OO development tool for Ingres.

Again, if you spend some minutes reading the licence agreement (also a link
on the page)
http://www3.ca.com/Files/Licensing/trusted_open_source_license.pdf
it says that CA remains the proprietor of the original source code. No fee
to download or use the product.
If you want to change the code you can and must indicate in your changes
which code is yours.  Simple, no?

> In the PDF docs that I downloaded from the Ingres site, there are frequent
> references to the 4GL but I have no idea if that is also Open Source, not
> <snip>
The 4GL stuff is ABF (Application By Forms) and Vision, an application
generator
which are the oldish character-based technology products. It does come with
the package.

> What are those 700 users doing? Is it highly transactional? Is
> it mostly reporting? How big is the database? How normalized is the data?
How
> intensive are the queries? What sort of hardware is it running on?
Powerful
> hardware masks a lot of ills. How ACID compliant is it? These are only a
few
> of the variables. It is difficult to distill such a complex thing into
> quotable sound bites like "30 year history", "enterprise database, or "700
> users", at least not for a technical audience anyway.

Highly interactive and transactional Customer Care system for a cellphone
company with
3,000,000 subscribers, billing jobs, communications to the switches to
activate phones, etc with 2-tier and n-tier clients.
Platform was Alpha 8400-series (at the time) under clustered Tru64 with
modest 440 Mhz CPU's.
Several databases totaling about 300 GB and 300 to 400 tables each.

I don't understand the aggressivity of the people who responded to my
original post! I was just mentioning
that Ingres was now available and worth looking at. The product was
originally released in the late 1970's and today's
open source version is the next of a series of releases that were developed
since then.

The replies that came back seem to come from people who know nothing about
the
product and make (uninformed) statements about its quality or functionality
:-)
Ingres, as noted before, was a product whose development was driven by
Michael Stonebreaker, ask him if he knew about ACID transactions!

Perhaps what we need is an Open Mind community to go with the Source :-)

Openly yours,

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>






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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 00:54:29 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:54:29 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316135949.GN31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4238D545.6070301@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 08:49:53PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> 
>>What is dual-channel DDR?  Is it also called "DDR2"?
>>
>>I'm interested in Abit AV8 (AMD64, S939)
>>    <http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=175>
>>which takes dual-channel DDR.  But, I don't know what that means.  My
>>experience ends with SDRAM and Pentium 3.
> 
> 
> Dual channel means you take two sticks of memory and run them in
> parallel so you have twice the bandwidth available.  This works by
> having two memory controllers running the memory as two seperate chunks
> of memory.  Access to memory is then split evenly across the two chunks
> (usually works best if you have each chunk identical size so you can
> alternate between the two chunks for every address).

Interleaving was often used with core memory, as it was considerably 
slower than the CPU, with the erase on read & rewrite cycles.
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 01:01:01 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:01:01 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050316233907.GA4371@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <001501c52a8c$db9043a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

---- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Park" <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 March, 2005 18:39
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Source Ingres for Linux
>
> Throwing my thought into the mix... I looked at Ingres API, since that's
> the only thing about database I'm interested in.  It really looked like
> 15 years old.  Going by API alone, PostgreSQL and SQLite were easy to
> read, understand, and to code.  MySQL was a bit more complicated than it
> should.

You are right, some of these application-development tools are from the
1980's, however the kit also comes with
a API for C/C++ and pre-compilers for C/C++ and also a few 3GL languages.
Also a JDBC connectivity tool.
One could easily develop applications using a X-based front-end and Ingres
as a database.
The PDF library contains a developer's guide for the API and all other
tools.

Ingres is indeed new on Linux but was originally developed on Solaris and
OpenVMS, so it is all written
in C and it is fairly easy to use it from almost any programming language,
or using a ODBC from other software front-ends.

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>



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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 04:21:55 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:21:55 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1111006205.42389bfda1231-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1111006205.42389bfda1231@geek-girls.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f050316202129f0bbd8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:50:05 -0500, Leigh Honeywell <leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Quoting Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
> 
> > SAP-DB is "open source," but there is certainly no public community
> > around it.  Just like with MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and
> > other such products, they are _really_ commercial products with some
> > veneer of "try it for free."
> 
> I'm not sure if you meant that to come across as dissmissive as it did to me,
> but I think that a lot of users of OpenOffice, MySQL, and the various Mozilla
> products would disagree with your assessment that we're just getting a "veneer"
> of free use.
> 
> We're getting the full shebang, and the average home user is getting support
> from the community, on IRC, messageboards, or email lists like this, whereas
> enterprises can pay the vendors the big bucks to have someone to call.

But reality is nonetheless that these products belong to someone else,
and the day they decide to change strategies, or the day their venture
capitalists tell them to do so, everyone that has built up dependancy
on it will suffer the results.

The same is NOT true for Linux, Emacs, TeX, GNOME, any number of
systems that are developed by open source communities.
 
> And while I know that these projects have varying degrees of "openness" in terms
> of development process, the communities around OO.o and Mozilla (not just
> developpers!) are nothing to scoff at :-)

Those "communities" don't control what code is in the applications, so
there is a pretty vital sense in which yes, indeed, they can be
scoffed at.  They don't produce the software; they merely "grease the
way" for the owners.

It's eminently _convenient_ that OpenOffice.org is as successful as it
is at loading MS Office documents, but where I can trust that Gnumeric
will continue to be free and continue to be developed by the community
that surrounds it, I can not safely treat OO.o as other than a Sun
ploy against Microsoft that happens to be conveniently available.

> Just wanted to chip in, because I think that it's important to recognize the
> value that both the user-driven communities and the commercial professional
> services having to do with OSS are to the eventual success of the model.

I can only see such scenarios outlining examples of what are,
ultimately, failures, popular though they may appear.

OSS projects that cannot attract sufficient developers from their
communities sure don't look like OSS "successes."

Or perhaps it is more precise to say that they may be "Open Source"
successes for their corporate owners.
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 13:32:12 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:32:12 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
Message-ID: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

Hi all,

I was talking to the people who are putting on the LinuxWorld Canada Show
and we have got a (small) both to promote TLUG and NewTLUG. This means a few
things:

- There are discounts available for TLUG and NewTLUG members who want to
attend the workshops and lectures at the show (e-mail me for details).
- We need volunteers who are willing to staff the booth. Do note, we are NOT
to be promoting our own consulting abilities, just the group (mind you, I
will have no qualms about talking about my talk to TLUG last December, which
of course shows what happens at a TLUG meeting AND shows my talents :-) ).
- We need to update the TLUG and NewTLUG web page to note our presence at
the show.
- I need some signatures from the TLUG executive on the agreement forms...

Bill Thanis was hoping to have a meeting Monday evening to discuss plans,
e-mail me if your interested in helping.

Colin McGregor

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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 13:51:56 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:51:56 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com>

Colin,

> - There are discounts available for TLUG and NewTLUG members who want to
> attend the workshops and lectures at the show (e-mail me for details).

I wouldn't mind getting a discount for workshops and lectures.

Also, I guess I'd be willing to man the tlug booth for a while, but
since I am new to the group I should probably only be used in case
there is no one else available.

Franco

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 14:08:38 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:08:38 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Franco Saliola" <saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> on Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:51 AM
wrote:

> Colin,
>
> > - There are discounts available for TLUG and NewTLUG members who want to
> > attend the workshops and lectures at the show (e-mail me for details).
>
> I wouldn't mind getting a discount for workshops and lectures.

I will be posting more info. in a bit, but quick bottom line is:

TLUG members receive FREE trade show pre-registration and a 25% discount off
pre-registration
on all seminars/tutorials at the conference. Please use code: A101 when
registering

> Also, I guess I'd be willing to man the tlug booth for a while, but
> since I am new to the group I should probably only be used in case
> there is no one else available.

Sounds good, I'll be in touch later.

Colin.

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From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 14:22:44 2005
From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:22:44 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503151014.26489.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <200503170922.44661.wildberger@cogeco.ca>

This is a follow up to my inquiry.
Thanks for all the good advice I got. As it turned out I had a lemon. Returned 
the computer and got another one. Same HP pre-installed WIN XP package. 
Installed Linux and works just fine.
John

On Tuesday 15 March 2005 10:14 am, John Wildberger wrote:
> Recently I bought a HPa820n Pavilion Computer with XP OS installed.
> I used Partition Magic to create some additional partitions.
> When trying to install Mdk10.0 it goes through the initial install log and
> then comes to the point where it says: Loading program into memory,
> At this point the computer hangs.
> Could it be that either the HW is too advanced (800Mz FSB) or that some
> other quirk is preventing the loading?
> Any suggestions?
> John
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:09:42 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:09:42 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050316215144.GA3841-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net> <4238A289.1080805@ca.afilias.info> <20050316215144.GA3841@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20050317150942.GT31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:51:44PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> No, no...  there are about upto 100 thin-clients.  I'm just playing
> around with the specs for server which can service all those
> thin-clients.  There will probably be more than 1 server.  But, as
> starting point, 1GB spread over 100 users means 10MB/user which is good
> enough, so I say it's do able with 1 server.

Given shared libraries on Linux 1GB over a 100 users may still be a bit
low, but certainly 2GB or 4GB would be quite good.  The main
disadvantage of the 64bit systems so far is a few programs not yet
working in 64bit mode such as openoffice 1.x (2.x should work though
when it is ready) and of course using win32 codecs with mplayer and such
things.  Most other things work.

Of course an athlon64/opteron with a 64bit kernel running a 32bit user
space still gets to use 4GB or 8GB ram efficiently with 100 users.  I
imagine they also come with gigabit networking which would give nice
speed for 100mbit users if the switch has gigabit to the server and
100mbit to the clients.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:12:18 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:12:18 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <200503170922.44661.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200503170922.44661.wildberger@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <20050317151218.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 09:22:44AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote:
> This is a follow up to my inquiry.
> Thanks for all the good advice I got. As it turned out I had a lemon. Returned 
> the computer and got another one. Same HP pre-installed WIN XP package. 
> Installed Linux and works just fine.

How amusing.  Yesterday The Register had an article where a very large
computer dealer in Europe had asked what exactly HP did given they
didn't design chips anymore, didn't build motherboards, etc.  HP seemed
to claim they provided brand and quality.  Your machine sure didn't
sound like a quality machine if it was a lemon. :)

I guess what HP does is sell stuff they might have spec'd and had
someone else build, and charge a fortune for putting ink in small
plastic boxes. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:22:18 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:22:18 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <001001c52a8a$ff3bcdd0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <39658.206.186.8.130.1110996342.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <001001c52a8a$ff3bcdd0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <20050317152218.GV31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote:
[snip]
> Again, if you spend some minutes reading the licence agreement (also a link
> on the page)
> http://www3.ca.com/Files/Licensing/trusted_open_source_license.pdf
> it says that CA remains the proprietor of the original source code. No fee
> to download or use the product.
> If you want to change the code you can and must indicate in your changes
> which code is yours.  Simple, no?

Hmm.

...
printf("Results:\n"); /* LS added the ':' */ /* The preceeding comment is
      			mine */ /* So was that comment and this one */
...

At what point are you going to far in indicating changes? :)

> I don't understand the aggressivity of the people who responded to my
> original post! I was just mentioning
> that Ingres was now available and worth looking at. The product was
> originally released in the late 1970's and today's
> open source version is the next of a series of releases that were developed
> since then.

Many people are very attached to their current favourite open source
database.

> The replies that came back seem to come from people who know nothing about
> the
> product and make (uninformed) statements about its quality or functionality
> :-)
> Ingres, as noted before, was a product whose development was driven by
> Michael Stonebreaker, ask him if he knew about ACID transactions!
> 
> Perhaps what we need is an Open Mind community to go with the Source :-)

But open source people also like to challange any and all claims and
statements. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:32:30 2005
From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:32:30 -0500
Subject: SAMBA setup help
In-Reply-To: <86a565d60503130751ac9e263-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <86a565d60503130751ac9e263@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4239A30E.4080206@gmail.com>

Mickey  -  When I had a similar problem I did 3 things.

-Reviewed permissions for all files, folders,and parent folders, of the 
directories/files I wanted to share to my windows pc.   These 
files/folders must have at least read permissions for Other.
-I made sure all pc's had an entry in the /etc/hosts and 
/etc/samba/lmhost files.

This solved the problem for me.  Hope this helps.

-Peter


Mickey wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	SAMBA setup help
Date: 	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:51:02 -0500
From: 	Mickey <skilljam-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: 	Mickey <skilljam-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
To: 	anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org, pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org

>Hi Anton and peter,
>
>I read your posting regarding to the Samba setting on the TLUG mailing list.
>
>I tried to setup the SAMBA Server on my LINUX box,no luck so far.
>
>I attached the screenshots.
>
>Could you please point me out what's the issue?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mickey
>  
>
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From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:37:15 2005
From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:37:15 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <20050317151218.GU31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200503170922.44661.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20050317151218.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1111073835.4239a42b27138@geek-girls.ca>

Quoting Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>:

> On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 09:22:44AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote:
> > This is a follow up to my inquiry.
> > Thanks for all the good advice I got. As it turned out I had a lemon.
> Returned
> > the computer and got another one. Same HP pre-installed WIN XP package.
> > Installed Linux and works just fine.
>
> How amusing.  Yesterday The Register had an article where a very large
> computer dealer in Europe had asked what exactly HP did given they
> didn't design chips anymore, didn't build motherboards, etc.  HP seemed
> to claim they provided brand and quality.  Your machine sure didn't
> sound like a quality machine if it was a lemon. :)
>
> I guess what HP does is sell stuff they might have spec'd and had
> someone else build, and charge a fortune for putting ink in small
> plastic boxes. :)
>
> Lennart Sorensen

The confusion deepens when other vendors (namely Cisco) re-sell HP stuff.  It's
a veritable pyramid of re-selling and re-labelling!

-Leigh
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 15:54:22 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:54:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050317155422.57226.qmail@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Everyone including Dell and IBM does this for certain models. Especially desktops. Soon you will see OEMs doing the same for laptops for large vendors as those components are also becoming mass produced commodities.

Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 09:22:44AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote:
> This is a follow up to my inquiry.
> Thanks for all the good advice I got. As it turned out I had a lemon. Returned 
> the computer and got another one. Same HP pre-installed WIN XP package. 
> Installed Linux and works just fine.

How amusing. Yesterday The Register had an article where a very large
computer dealer in Europe had asked what exactly HP did given they
didn't design chips anymore, didn't build motherboards, etc. HP seemed
to claim they provided brand and quality. Your machine sure didn't
sound like a quality machine if it was a lemon. :)

I guess what HP does is sell stuff they might have spec'd and had
someone else build, and charge a fortune for putting ink in small
plastic boxes. :)

Lennart Sorensen
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 16:18:04 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:18:04 -0500
Subject: Linux install woes
Message-ID: <4239ADBC.2090507@sympatico.ca>

> Everyone including Dell and IBM does this for certain models. 
> Especially desktops. Soon you will see OEMs doing the same for laptops 
> for large vendors as those components are also becoming mass produced 
> commodities.


They already are and have been for years:

http://tuxmobil.org/laptop_oem.html


John
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 18:20:03 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:20:03 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux
In-Reply-To: <001001c52a8a$ff3bcdd0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <d6d6637f05031608587c80a885@mail.gmail.com> <200503161823.01709.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <001001c52a8a$ff3bcdd0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <200503171320.03561.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 16, 2005 19:47, Francois Ouellette wrote:
[snip]
> Again, if you spend some minutes reading the licence agreement (also a link
> on the page)
> http://www3.ca.com/Files/Licensing/trusted_open_source_license.pdf
> it says that CA remains the proprietor of the original source code. No fee
> to download or use the product.
> If you want to change the code you can and must indicate in your changes
> which code is yours.  Simple, no?

Simple but not really free, as in libre.

[snip]

> I don't understand the aggressivity of the people who responded to my
> original post!

I would not necessarily characterize it as "aggressivity" but more like 
healthy skepticism. This industry is full of hype, perhaps more so than any 
other. Companies jump on and off bandwagons quickly. The current bandwagon 
seems to be "Open Source" so some companies figure that if they sprinkle that 
Open Source pixie dust all over their products, that it will instantly appeal 
to a whole new segment. It just does not work that way. If we can take TLUG 
as a microcosm of the larger Open Source community, you can see that it is a 
tough sell.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 18:58:29 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:58:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503171355520.13766@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:

> Bill Thanis was hoping to have a meeting Monday evening to discuss plans,
> e-mail me if your interested in helping.

I'm doing a BOF at LinuxWorld Canada so I'll make sure attendees are 
aware of the TLUG booth.

I can commit to assisting at the booth.

A couple of questions, others may be interested in:

1. How many people do you think you would be needing?

2. What sort of time committment do you think you'll need?

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 19:40:42 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:40:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux]
Message-ID: <45814.206.186.8.130.1111088442.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

> From Lennart Sorensen:
>
> Hmm.
> ...
> printf("Results:\n"); /* LS added the ':' */ /* The preceeding comment is
>       			mine */ /* So was that comment and this one */
> ...
>
> At what point are you going to far in indicating changes? :)

The license agreement does not require that level of details, fortunately!
It says that you must include a documentation file with your distro that
describes the changes with a reference to which Contributor it derives
from. You may also display a notice in the executable to indicate the same
info.

> Many people are very attached to their current favourite open source
database.

The least you can say!
However, how many people do make a living of their favourite open source
product? Fortunately, I do :-)

> But open source people also like to challenge any and all claims and
statements. :)
That too! But commonsense also has its place.
Some people seem to put more ACID in their postings than their favourite
RDBMS transactions!

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 21:27:50 2005
From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:27:50 -0500
Subject: forced pre-caching
Message-ID: <f11de95f05031713274bd85f60@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is there a way to force Linux to pre-cache certain files?  Not just
executables, but also arbitrary data files.

Thanks,
-Jing
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 21:35:27 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:35:27 -0500
Subject: forced pre-caching
In-Reply-To: <f11de95f05031713274bd85f60-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f11de95f05031713274bd85f60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f05031713357cba63c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:27:50 -0500, Jing Su <gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Is there a way to force Linux to pre-cache certain files?  Not just
> executables, but also arbitrary data files.

Put a script into the "initialization stuff" that does...

for file in `cat /etc/precache-list-of-files`; do
   dd if=$file of=/dev/null bs=1M
done
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 23:10:27 2005
From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:10:27 -0500
Subject: What is "dual-channel DDR"?
In-Reply-To: <20050317150942.GT31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050316014953.GA2502@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316135949.GN31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316150441.GA2051@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316153321.GA2306@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050316171928.GO31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050316210647.GB3744@node1.opengeometry.net> <4238A289.1080805@ca.afilias.info> <20050316215144.GA3841@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050317150942.GT31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <423A0E63.1010302@ca.afilias.info>

If you've got a server room to put it in (these puppies are LOUD), you 
can probably get an A8440 chassis w/ motherboard for cheap these days. 
Celestica has stopped producing them in favour of their new design, but 
it's still a decent system.

Populate it with a pair of 846 or even 844 processors, inexpensive 
memory and say 4 x 146G 10kRPM disks. You should be able to do it for 
under $3k, including taxes. Leaves you room to add CPUs and memory. 
Unlike Xeon based multiprocessor boxes, you can mix and match CPU 
speeds. Memory too, as long as you're consistent in each bank.

You really should talk to the guys at Alliance Tech.

Drew

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 04:51:44PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> 
>>No, no...  there are about upto 100 thin-clients.  I'm just playing
>>around with the specs for server which can service all those
>>thin-clients.  There will probably be more than 1 server.  But, as
>>starting point, 1GB spread over 100 users means 10MB/user which is good
>>enough, so I say it's do able with 1 server.
> 
> 
> Given shared libraries on Linux 1GB over a 100 users may still be a bit
> low, but certainly 2GB or 4GB would be quite good.  The main
> disadvantage of the 64bit systems so far is a few programs not yet
> working in 64bit mode such as openoffice 1.x (2.x should work though
> when it is ready) and of course using win32 codecs with mplayer and such
> things.  Most other things work.
> 
> Of course an athlon64/opteron with a 64bit kernel running a 32bit user
> space still gets to use 4GB or 8GB ram efficiently with 100 users.  I
> imagine they also come with gigabit networking which would give nice
> speed for 100mbit users if the switch has gigabit to the server and
> 100mbit to the clients.
> 
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 17 23:26:47 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:26:47 -0500
Subject: Open Source Ingres for Linux]
In-Reply-To: <45814.206.186.8.130.1111088442.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <45814.206.186.8.130.1111088442.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <200503171826.48272.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 17, 2005 14:40, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> > From Lennart Sorensen:
> > Many people are very attached to their current favourite open 
> > source database. 
>
> The least you can say!
> However, how many people do make a living of their favourite open source
> product? Fortunately, I do :-)

And the users of other FOSS databases do not? People make money using all 
manner of tools, good, bad, ancient, modern, FOSS, proprietary. I do not 
think anyone said one cannot make money using Ingres.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 01:10:15 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:10:15 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com> <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <423A2A77.8030205@rogers.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> TLUG members receive FREE trade show pre-registration

Every one gets free show registration, if they register soon enough.
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From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 01:17:31 2005
From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:17:31 -0500
Subject: Linux Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <20050317151218.GU31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503151014.26489.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200503170922.44661.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20050317151218.GU31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200503172017.31754.wildberger@cogeco.ca>

On Thursday 17 March 2005 10:12 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 09:22:44AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote:
> > This is a follow up to my inquiry.
> > Thanks for all the good advice I got. As it turned out I had a lemon.
> > Returned the computer and got another one. Same HP pre-installed WIN XP
> > package. Installed Linux and works just fine.
>
> How amusing.  Yesterday The Register had an article where a very large
> computer dealer in Europe had asked what exactly HP did given they
> didn't design chips anymore, didn't build motherboards, etc.  HP seemed
> to claim they provided brand and quality.  Your machine sure didn't
> sound like a quality machine if it was a lemon. :)
>
> I guess what HP does is sell stuff they might have spec'd and had
> someone else build, and charge a fortune for putting ink in small
> plastic boxes. :)
>
> Lennart Sorensen

Here is a direct quote from HP tech service:

"HP does not recommend that customers install Linux on their Pavilion PCs; 
however, we understand that some customers may wish to change operating 
systems for their personal needs. ?HP does not support Linux on any models of 
HP Pavilion PCs at this time. "

To a certain extend I can understand their concern. To install linux on their 
systems (this also includes Compaq Presario) is not a trivial matter.
To succeed, this is what I had to do:

1) make a 2 set DVD copy of the recover partition. This partition is at the 
front end of the HD. You can do this only once !!!( it pays to have a standby 
powersupply).
2)make a recovery tools CD for manipulating the recover partition.
3) remove the recover partition and move the Win XP part to the front.
4) use Partition Magic to make room for the Linux OS. My Partition Magic is 
Ver7 and covers only HD up to 80G. My HD is 160G. This did not seem to bother 
much, because I reduced the Win XP to 60G.  
5) Created a 10G FAT32 partition so that later on my Linux OS can store into 
the XP OS.
6) The remaining part of the HD I left empty.
7) Installed MDK10 into a 20G part of the unassigned part of the HD. I also 
created a Swap partion of 2G
8)used GRUB instead lf LILO, because this will make it easier for installing 
other Linux distros into the remaining HD space.
9)Drink lots of coffee during the process to keep awake.
10) celebrate with a good bottle of wine if everything worked.
John
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From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 02:07:48 2005
From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:07:48 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <423A2A77.8030205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com>
	 <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <423A2A77.8030205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?

Mike

-- 
Get Firefox - Take back the Web
http://www.getfirefox.com/
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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 02:52:34 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:52:34 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com>
	 <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <423A2A77.8030205@rogers.com>
	 <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa05031718527f65a09@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,

The President of The Future wrote:
> I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
> students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?

I feel the same way. I scoured the website, but found nothing. The
registration fees take a big chunk out of a student's stipend. (But I
find most webpages are useless for distributing information because
the bit I need is always hidden in some wrong space.) Let me know if
you figure something out, and I'll do the same.

Franco
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 03:16:02 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:16:02 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <ebc50aa05031718527f65a09-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com> <ebc50aa05031718527f65a09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200503172216.03067.m-cahill@rogers.com>

On March 17, 2005 09:52 pm, Franco Saliola wrote:
> Mike,
>
> The President of The Future wrote:
> > I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
> > students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?
>
> I feel the same way. I scoured the website, but found nothing. The
> registration fees take a big chunk out of a student's stipend. (But I
> find most webpages are useless for distributing information because
> the bit I need is always hidden in some wrong space.) Let me know if
> you figure something out, and I'll do the same.
>
> Franco

  I have to say, I find the whole LinuxWorld 'network' to be a little mickey 
mouse:  if you go to linuxworld.com, it's as if the Conferences and Expo's 
never existed.  If you go to linuxworldexpo.com, you'd think it was strictly 
an American convention...but...if you wince, you'll see the word 'Canada', 
under 'Global Events', as if it were an anomaly.  Notice that they only say 
'Canada', not 'Toronto, Canada' which is how they notate every single 
convention in every country on the list.  Clicking this link takes you to yet 
another domain, 'linuxworldcanada.com'.
  For  Toronto being 'the third largest region in North America for IT 
activity', they sure don't go out of their way to advertise it.

  I mean, would it kill them to consider integrating everything so that 
LinuxWorld actually looked like the international effort it purports to be?

  Sorry for the rant.

Matt

-- 
Matt Cahill
             m dash cahill at rogers dot com
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 04:21:44 2005
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:21:44 -0500
Subject: Cell Phones & Text messaging
In-Reply-To: <200503151056.53911.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <1110501617.6405.17.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
	 <200503151056.53911.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <1111119704.24865.7.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 10:56, David Colebatch wrote:
> Don't overlook the option of hooking up an old Nokia to a server with a serial 
> cable and running gnokii (http://www.gnokii.org/).  We use this setup back 
> home to allow servers to send us SMS even when the network is down (Try doing 
> that with an email-SMS gateway).

Interesting... A suggestion was made re Wavecom's WMOD2B GSM modem. I
wonder what the argument is for using it instead of a Nokia phone with a
serial connection as you mention.

What software are you using? Perl's GSM::xxx? SMSLink?

--  
Sincerely,
Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826

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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 05:08:43 2005
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:08:43 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <200503172216.03067.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com> <ebc50aa05031718527f65a09@mail.gmail.com> <200503172216.03067.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <423A625B.5040500@quadratic.net>

Matt Cahill wrote:

>On March 17, 2005 09:52 pm, Franco Saliola wrote:
>  
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>The President of The Future wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
>>>students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?
>>>      
>>>
>>I feel the same way. I scoured the website, but found nothing. The
>>registration fees take a big chunk out of a student's stipend. (But I
>>find most webpages are useless for distributing information because
>>the bit I need is always hidden in some wrong space.) Let me know if
>>you figure something out, and I'll do the same.
>>
>>Franco
>>    
>>
>
>  I have to say, I find the whole LinuxWorld 'network' to be a little mickey 
>mouse:  if you go to linuxworld.com, it's as if the Conferences and Expo's 
>never existed.  If you go to linuxworldexpo.com, you'd think it was strictly 
>an American convention...but...if you wince, you'll see the word 'Canada', 
>under 'Global Events', as if it were an anomaly.  Notice that they only say 
>'Canada', not 'Toronto, Canada' which is how they notate every single 
>convention in every country on the list.  Clicking this link takes you to yet 
>another domain, 'linuxworldcanada.com'.
>  For  Toronto being 'the third largest region in North America for IT 
>activity', they sure don't go out of their way to advertise it.
>
>  I mean, would it kill them to consider integrating everything so that 
>LinuxWorld actually looked like the international effort it purports to be?
>
>  Sorry for the rant.
>
>Matt
>
>  
>
Here Hear. I agree. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to act 
like it.

david
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 11:18:55 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:18:55 -0500
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>	 <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com>	 <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>	 <423A2A77.8030205@rogers.com> <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423AB91F.4000802@rogers.com>

Mike Newman wrote:
> I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
> students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?

Trade shows tend not to have student discounts.  They focus on 
"industry" people.  However, if you order soon enough, show registration 
is free.

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From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 14:58:44 2005
From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:58:44 -0500
Subject: Setting the timeout for the network card
Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD20AE@RIKER>

I'm running Mandrake 9.2 on a laptop with a Wireless and a Network card. 

When I start up without a network cable plugged into the network card (i.e.
using a wireless connection) it takes around a minute longer then when it is
plugged in. I assume that this is because the startup sequence is repeatedly
trying the network card connection before eventually timing out. 

Does anyone know where this timeout is set? I'd like to shorten it.

Regards,
Jim.
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 19:25:08 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:25:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
 Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>

In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.

I do however, have to question the independence of anything stated about 
Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event.  I am yet to see any 
evidence they really want to work with the OSS community on openness.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
    Technical Briefing Dinner

By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
Manager at Microsoft Canada.


As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed.   I would
like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided. 

 

Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating platforms. Gain
insights into how Linux and OSS have developed, how they are tested,
distributed and more. Explore the Ecosystem - who are the players and
who's accountable for what. And finally, get the answers to the
questions on everybody's mind: Are Linux and OSS driving technology
innovation? What is the roadmap for strategic IT planning?


Bill is Microsoft's technical lead for competitive strategy at Microsoft
and responsible for quarterly open source technology reviews with
Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates. Prior to
joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior I/T Architect and the Linux
technical leader for IBM's Global Emerging and Competitive Markets
organization.  In this role, he led Linux technical strategy at a
world-wide level in addition to his direct customer interaction as a
consulting architect. Bill has been involved with Open Source software
as a developer, architect, and evangelist for over nine years, and is an
IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the subject of Linux and Open Source
software.

 

As an added bonus, all attendees will receive the "Expand Your
Knowledge" kit to facilitate your continued learning and evaluation
process.  This kit is free of charge and has an estimated retail value
of over $1000. 

 

 

*	Complementary full working copy of Microsoft Windows Server(tm)
2003 Standard Edition operating system 

 

*	Microsoft Press Book - Windows Administrator Companion ($43.99
ERP*)

 

*	Product Evaluation Software 

 

Additional information on this exclusive event is included in the
invitation attached.  To register, please visit:  
http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032271365&Cu
lture=en-CA
or call 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365).

 

Spaces are limited - RSVP soon. If for any reason individuals the user
group are unable to register, please feel free to email me directly. I
look forward to seeing you at the event!

 

 

Harp Girn

TechNet Community Manager

Microsoft Canada

v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org <mailto:v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org> 

905-568-0434 ext. 26233

 

 
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 19:42:57 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:42:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050318194257.57448.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yeah I received it too. I find it funny that an ex-IBM Linux IT architect (who they bought from IBM like they do with all other employee defections) is leading the to be biased discussion. I also worked for IBM on Linux projects and deployments up to 2003 (some very complex and cool cluster deployments and others) and the growth has been nothing but amazing year over year. Microsoft pays for what they call "vendor neutral research". I find that funny and obviously sad at the same time.

Robert Brockway <rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote: In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.

I do however, have to question the independence of anything stated about 
Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event. I am yet to see any 
evidence they really want to work with the OSS community on openness.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" 
To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
Technical Briefing Dinner

By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
Manager at Microsoft Canada.


As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed. I would
like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided. 



Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating platforms. Gain
insights into how Linux and OSS have developed, how they are tested,
distributed and more. Explore the Ecosystem - who are the players and
who's accountable for what. And finally, get the answers to the
questions on everybody's mind: Are Linux and OSS driving technology
innovation? What is the roadmap for strategic IT planning?


Bill is Microsoft's technical lead for competitive strategy at Microsoft
and responsible for quarterly open source technology reviews with
Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates. Prior to
joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior I/T Architect and the Linux
technical leader for IBM's Global Emerging and Competitive Markets
organization. In this role, he led Linux technical strategy at a
world-wide level in addition to his direct customer interaction as a
consulting architect. Bill has been involved with Open Source software
as a developer, architect, and evangelist for over nine years, and is an
IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the subject of Linux and Open Source
software.



As an added bonus, all attendees will receive the "Expand Your
Knowledge" kit to facilitate your continued learning and evaluation
process. This kit is free of charge and has an estimated retail value
of over $1000. 





* Complementary full working copy of Microsoft Windows Server(tm)
2003 Standard Edition operating system 



* Microsoft Press Book - Windows Administrator Companion ($43.99
ERP*)



* Product Evaluation Software 



Additional information on this exclusive event is included in the
invitation attached. To register, please visit: 
http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032271365&Cu
lture=en-CA
or call 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365).



Spaces are limited - RSVP soon. If for any reason individuals the user
group are unable to register, please feel free to email me directly. I
look forward to seeing you at the event!





Harp Girn

TechNet Community Manager

Microsoft Canada

v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org 

905-568-0434 ext. 26233







Join Bill Hilf, Lead Program Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft, April 14, 2005 at the Toronto Marriott as he delves into a technical evaluation of Microsoft, Unix and Linux based platforms. It??s an opportunity to expand your knowledge around these diverse platforms, learn how to implement and deploy your own solutions. A dinner will be provided.

Space is limited, please RSVP now by calling 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365 ) or to register online click here.   
Bill will host a question??and??answer period after the Technical Discussion, so don??t miss out on this event!
 Bill Hilf - Lead Program Manager, Platform Strategy Group
Bill is Microsoft??s technical lead for competitive strategy at Microsoft and responsible for quarterly open source technology reviews with Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates. Prior to joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior I/T Architect and the Linux technical leader for IBM's Global Emerging and Competitive Markets organization.  In this role, he led Linux technical strategy at a world-wide level in addition to his direct customer interaction as a consulting architect. Bill has been involved with Open Source software as a developer, architect, and evangelist for over nine years, and is an IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the subject of Linux and Open Source software.


Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating platforms. Gain insights into how Linux and OSS have developed, how they are tested, distributed and more. Explore the Ecosystem &shy; who are the players and who??s accountable for what. And finally, get the answers to the questions on everybody??s mind: Are Linux and OSS driving technology innovation? What is the roadmap for strategic IT planning? 

Space is limited, please RSVP now by calling 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365 ) or to register online click here.  





To assist you in your continued learning of diverse software platforms, you??ll receive an Expand Your Knowledge kit ?? free of charge. The kit includes: 

Complementary full working copy of Microsoft Windows Server?? 2003 Standard Edition operating systemMicrosoft Press Book ?? Windows Administrator Companion ($43.99 ERP*)Product Evaluation SoftwareAnd More..

Date: April 14, 2005Location:Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville 
Forest Hill Ballroom
90 Bloor Street East
Toronto, Ontario
M4W 1A7Agenda: 6:00pm??7:00pmRegistration &
Dinner 7:00pm??8:00pmTechnical
Discussion8:00pm??8:30pmQ & A
Manage Your Profile | Contact Us | Terms Of Use | Privacy Statement 
*Actual retail price may vary. Price in Canadian dollars and current at time of printing.
??2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Microsoft and Windows Server are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other 
countries.

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 19:53:30 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:53:30 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050318195330.GA18603@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Mar 18, 2005 at 02:25:08PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote:
> event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
> Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided. 

Free food...  Sign me in!

> *	Complementary full working copy of Microsoft Windows Server(tm)
> 2003 Standard Edition operating system 

Maybe of some use.

> Additional information on this exclusive event is included in the
> invitation attached.  To register, please visit:  
> http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032271365&Cu
> lture=en-CA
> or call 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365).

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 19:54:51 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:54:51 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft
 Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <423B320B.7040101@sympatico.ca>

Robert Brockway wrote:

>In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.
>
>I do however, have to question the independence of anything stated about 
>Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event.  I am yet to see any 
>evidence they really want to work with the OSS community on openness.
>
>Rob
>  
>
That's a hoot !
How many hours do they expect us to sit there while they say "Linux bad, 
Microsoft good !" ?
Do they really expect converts ? My guess is that they want to gather a 
bunch of the penguinly inclined, record all we have to say, and then 
bring the mess back to the "spin" department.

mmmmm ! well researched FUD ! best kind !

djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 20:04:03 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:04:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050318200403.33808.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yes, I got one of these via a job hunt website I am
on. Yes, I have signed up for this event, even though
I expect it to be a Linux attack-fest, free food being
a real attraction :-) . The presention will not change
my approach in dealing with Microsoft products at work
(replace Mircosoft desktops where ever and when ever
possible with Linux, and replace Microsoft servers
with FreeBSD (the later basicly is done :-) )).

Next thing will be to plan some questions for the Q&A
session, like 

- When we ran our office mail server under Windows
2000 we needed three PCs, and we could expect things
to run 3 days before being forced to reboot the boxes
(becuse at least one of the boxes had locked up).
Since moving to FreeBSD we need one box in place of
those three, we are running more services off that
box, and we have had to reboot the box five times over
the last year (four of the reboots were planned /
scheduled in advance, and the fifth was caused by a
power failure that lasted longer than our UPS). How
would Windows improve our reliability/uptime and lower
our cost?

Colin McGregor

 --- Robert Brockway <rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote: 
> In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.
> 
> I do however, have to question the independence of
> anything stated about 
> Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event. 
> I am yet to see any 
> evidence they really want to work with the OSS
> community on openness.
> 
> Rob
> 
> -- 
> Robert Brockway B.Sc.
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions
> Ltd.
> Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org
> http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to
> real world problems.
> Contributing Member of Software in the Public
> Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
> From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)"
> <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited
> to the Microsoft Platform
>     Technical Briefing Dinner
> 
> By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am
> the TechNet Community
> Manager at Microsoft Canada.
> 
> 
> As the leader of a highly technical community, you
> know the importance
> of providing your fellow user group members with the
> latest information
> on the technology alternatives available. Here's a
> chance for you and
> your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay
> Informed.   I would
> like to cordially invite members of the Toronto
> Linux User Group Online
> to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf,
> Lead Program
> Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at
> Microsoft. This complimentary
> event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor
> Yorkville in Toronto on
> Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will
> be provided. 
> 
>  
> 
> Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating
> platforms. Gain
> insights into how Linux and OSS have developed, how
> they are tested,
> distributed and more. Explore the Ecosystem - who
> are the players and
> who's accountable for what. And finally, get the
> answers to the
> questions on everybody's mind: Are Linux and OSS
> driving technology
> innovation? What is the roadmap for strategic IT
> planning?
> 
> 
> Bill is Microsoft's technical lead for competitive
> strategy at Microsoft
> and responsible for quarterly open source technology
> reviews with
> Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill
> Gates. Prior to
> joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior I/T Architect
> and the Linux
> technical leader for IBM's Global Emerging and
> Competitive Markets
> organization.  In this role, he led Linux technical
> strategy at a
> world-wide level in addition to his direct customer
> interaction as a
> consulting architect. Bill has been involved with
> Open Source software
> as a developer, architect, and evangelist for over
> nine years, and is an
> IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the subject of Linux
> and Open Source
> software.
> 
>  
> 
> As an added bonus, all attendees will receive the
> "Expand Your
> Knowledge" kit to facilitate your continued learning
> and evaluation
> process.  This kit is free of charge and has an
> estimated retail value
> of over $1000. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *	Complementary full working copy of Microsoft
> Windows Server(tm)
> 2003 Standard Edition operating system 
> 
>  
> 
> *	Microsoft Press Book - Windows Administrator
> Companion ($43.99
> ERP*)
> 
>  
> 
> *	Product Evaluation Software 
> 
>  
> 
> Additional information on this exclusive event is
> included in the
> invitation attached.  To register, please visit:  
>
http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032271365&Cu
> lture=en-CA
> or call 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365).
> 
>  
> 
> Spaces are limited - RSVP soon. If for any reason
> individuals the user
> group are unable to register, please feel free to
> email me directly. I
> look forward to seeing you at the event!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Harp Girn
> 
> TechNet Community Manager
> 
> Microsoft Canada
> 
> v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org <mailto:v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> 
> 
> 905-568-0434 ext. 26233
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
---------------------------------
Microsoft      	          	
	
	
	Join Bill Hilf, 	Lead Program Manager for the
Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft, 		April 14, 2005
	at the Toronto Marriott as he delves into a technical
evaluation of 	Microsoft, Unix and Linux based
platforms. It#8217;s an opportunity to expand 	your
knowledge around these diverse platforms, learn how to
implement and 	deploy your own solutions. A dinner
will be provided.
            
            Space is limited, please RSVP now by
calling 1-877-673-8368 	(Event ID 1032271365 ) or to
register online	click            here.  
	    Bill will host a question#150;and#150;answer
period after the Technical Discussion, so don#8217;t  
 miss out on this event!
	                                    		               
 Bill              Hilf - Lead Program Manager,
Platform Strategy Group
		Bill is Microsoft#8217;s technical lead for
competitive strategy at Microsoft 		and responsible
for quarterly open source technology reviews with 	
Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill
Gates. Prior to joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior
I/T Architect and            the Linux technical
leader for IBM's Global Emerging and Competitive      
     Markets organization.  In this role, he led Linux
technical            strategy at a world-wide level in
addition to his direct customer            interaction
as a consulting architect. Bill has been involved with
           Open Source software as a developer,
architect, and evangelist for            over nine
years, and is an IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the
subject            of Linux and Open Source software. 
        		
	
    	    
    Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating
platforms. Gain insights    into how Linux and OSS
have developed, how they are tested, distributed and  
 more. Explore the Ecosystem ?? who are the players and
who#8217;s accountable for what. And finally, get the
answers to the questions on everybody#8217;s    mind:
Are Linux and OSS driving technology innovation? What
is the roadmap    for strategic IT planning? 
    
    Space is limited, please RSVP now by calling
1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 	1032271365 ) or to register
online	click here.     		     
    	
	
                   
	     
	
    To assist you in your continued learning of
diverse software platforms, 	you#8217;ll receive an
Expand Your Knowledge kit #8211; free of charge. The
kit 	includes: 
	
		 	  	 			  Complementary full working copy of
Microsoft Windows 		Server#8482; 2003 Standard Edition
operating system	 	 	  			  Microsoft Press Book #150;
		Windows Administrator Companion ($43.99 ERP*)	 	 		 
  	 			  Product Evaluation Software	 	 	  			  And
More..	 		
	
	     	  Date:  		April 14, 2005	 	 	  Location:	 
Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville 
		Forest Hill Ballroom
		90 Bloor Street East
		Toronto, Ontario
		M4W 1A7	              	  Agenda:	   	 	 	  	
6:00pm#150;7:00pm	  Registration		&
		Dinner 	 	 	  		7:00pm#150;8:00pm	  Technical
Discussion	 	 	  8:00pm#150;8:30pm	  Q & A	           
               
    	Manage Your Profile | 	Contact Us | 	Terms Of Use
| 	Privacy Statement    
    *Actual retail price may 	vary. Price in Canadian
dollars and current at time of printing.
	??2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Microsoft and Windows 	Server are either registered
trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft 	Corporation in
the United States and/or other 
	countries. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 20:14:33 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:14:33 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Hi,

can someone please try this out:

printf "%05d" 08

it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it 
think it's octal ?! Both the shell version and the executable have the 
same problem, so I guess it's a shell problem. This also explains 
problems I had some time ago composing a shell script on this machine 
(I started a thread on this list about that - some numbers used to 
disappear for no reason - the numbers were sequential filename in aa 
script).

Again:

/usr/bin/printf "%05d" 08
/usr/bin/printf: 08: value not completely converted

printf "%05d" 08
-bash: printf: 08: invalid number

printf "%05d" 10#08
-bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number

(according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it 
does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a 
backslash-escaped '#').

I wrote a small C program to test atoi, strtod and strtoul and the 
latter is broken (is it ?). E.g.:

plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 07
atoi: 7
strtod: 7.000000
strtoul: 7
plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 08
atoi: 8
strtod: 8.000000
strtoul: 0

I take this to mean that strtoul() assumes the lowest conversion base it 
can use if the third argument is 0. This is a bug. It should look at the 
whole string and match the highest base it can, starting from the last 
character that is not convertible with any base, imho. My program linked 
(automatically) against libc.so.6 (0x40025000). This system is Debian 
based. The program is available (I will post it here if needed).

?! tia,
Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 20:31:34 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:31:34 -0500
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050318203134.GW31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 18, 2005 at 10:14:33PM +0200, Peter wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> can someone please try this out:
> 
> printf "%05d" 08
> 
> it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it 
> think it's octal ?! Both the shell version and the executable have the 
> same problem, so I guess it's a shell problem. This also explains 
> problems I had some time ago composing a shell script on this machine 
> (I started a thread on this list about that - some numbers used to 
> disappear for no reason - the numbers were sequential filename in aa 
> script).
> 
> Again:
> 
> /usr/bin/printf "%05d" 08
> /usr/bin/printf: 08: value not completely converted
> 
> printf "%05d" 08
> -bash: printf: 08: invalid number
> 
> printf "%05d" 10#08
> -bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number
> 
> (according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it 
> does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a 
> backslash-escaped '#').
> 
> I wrote a small C program to test atoi, strtod and strtoul and the 
> latter is broken (is it ?). E.g.:
> 
> plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 07
> atoi: 7
> strtod: 7.000000
> strtoul: 7
> plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 08
> atoi: 8
> strtod: 8.000000
> strtoul: 0
> 
> I take this to mean that strtoul() assumes the lowest conversion base it 
> can use if the third argument is 0. This is a bug. It should look at the 
> whole string and match the highest base it can, starting from the last 
> character that is not convertible with any base, imho. My program linked 
> (automatically) against libc.so.6 (0x40025000). This system is Debian 
> based. The program is available (I will post it here if needed).

The way you do numbers on unix is this:
If it starts with 1-9 it is decimal.  If it starts with 0x it is hex,
otherwise if it starts with 0 it is octal.  Since 08 isn't valid octal
it should complain about it.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 20:44:30 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:44:30 +0000
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200503182044.30923.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 18, 2005 08:14 pm, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> can someone please try this out:
>
> printf "%05d" 08
>
> it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it
> think it's octal ?! Both the shell version and the executable have the
> same problem, so I guess it's a shell problem. This also explains
> problems I had some time ago composing a shell script on this machine
> (I started a thread on this list about that - some numbers used to
> disappear for no reason - the numbers were sequential filename in aa
> script).
>
> Again:
>
> /usr/bin/printf "%05d" 08
> /usr/bin/printf: 08: value not completely converted
>
> printf "%05d" 08
> -bash: printf: 08: invalid number
>
> printf "%05d" 10#08
> -bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number
>
> (according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it
> does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a
> backslash-escaped '#').
>

Take a look here 
http://colton.byuh.edu/courses/tut/printf.pdf

printf "%05d",08  produces    00000,08
printf "%05d",8    produces    00000,8
printf "%05d"8     produces    0000008
printf "%05d".8    produces    000000.8


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 20:50:45 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:50:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000@spsystems.net>

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Peter wrote:
> printf "%05d" 08
> it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it 
> think it's octal ?!

Because the syntax of the arguments (after the format string) to the
printf command is defined -- in the POSIX standard -- to be the same as
that of C constants, with some minor extensions, and in C, a leading 0
means an octal number.  (The fact that the FSF's documentation for the
printf command fails to discuss this is a documentation bug.)

> printf "%05d" 10#08
> -bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number
> 
> (according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it 
> does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a 
> backslash-escaped '#').

That notation is for the $(( )) construct, the shell's built-in expression
evaluation; it doesn't apply everywhere.  If you try this:

	printf "%05d" $((10#08))

you'll find that it works.

> I wrote a small C program to test atoi, strtod and strtoul and the 
> latter is broken (is it ?). E.g.:
> plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 08
> atoi: 8
> strtod: 8.000000
> strtoul: 0

Does your program check to see whether strtoul() actually consumed the
whole string?  If you specified 0 as the "base" argument of strtoul(),
then it follows the C rules, so a leading 0x means hex, a leading 0
followed by a valid octal digit is octal, and otherwise the 0 is the
whole number and there's some trash following it.

atoi() doesn't show this behavior because its input is always decimal by
definition.  strtod() doesn't because there is no octal floating-point
format, so it's taking 08 as decimal.

> I take this to mean that strtoul() assumes the lowest conversion base it 
> can use if the third argument is 0.

No.  Quoth "man strtoul" (after a discussion of possible leading white
space and sign): 

       If base  is  zero  or  16,  the
       string may then include a `0x' prefix, and the number will
       be read in base 16; otherwise, a zero base is taken as  10
       (decimal)  unless the next character is `0', in which case
       it is taken as 8 (octal).

In other words, with a zero base, a leading 0 not followed by x means
octal, period. 

> It should look at the 
> whole string and match the highest base it can, starting from the last 
> character that is not convertible with any base, imho.

That is an interesting notion, but it is *not* the specification for
strtoul().  You don't have to guess how these things work; it's
documented. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 21:30:23 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:30:23 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105031813305aa3a614@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:25:08 -0500 (EST), Robert Brockway
<rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
> From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
>     Technical Briefing Dinner
> 
> By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
> Manager at Microsoft Canada.
> 
> As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
> of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
> on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
> your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed.   I would
> like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
> to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
> Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
> event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
> Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided.

I wonder if this gentleman would speak to the SCO/IBM case at all?

I am planning to take the following day off anyway, so the 'free food'
might make it worthwhile.

Hey, if I can sit through a presentation on time-share condominiums,
this should be a piece of cake.

Alex
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 22:23:49 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:23:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <20050318203134.GW31454-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050318203134.GW31454@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190023030.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> The way you do numbers on unix is this:
> If it starts with 1-9 it is decimal.  If it starts with 0x it is hex,
> otherwise if it starts with 0 it is octal.  Since 08 isn't valid octal
> it should complain about it.

So decimal guys lose when working with the shell ? ;-)

thanks,
Peter
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 22:23:13 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:23:13 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <f9870c0105031813305aa3a614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c52c09$24fd3930$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

> > From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> > To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> > Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft
Platform
> >     Technical Briefing Dinner
> >
> > By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
> > Manager at Microsoft Canada.
> >
> > As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
> > of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
> > on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
> > your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed.   I would
> > like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
> > to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
> > Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
> > event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
> > Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided.

Looks like Microsoft's strategy of trying to contain Linux has reached
T.O....

I am curious to know what he means by "Expand Your Knowledge", are we
considered ignorants?!?

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>



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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 22:24:25 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:24:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <200503182044.30923.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503182118280.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <200503182044.30923.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190023560.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Jason Shein wrote:

>> (according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it
>> does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a
>> backslash-escaped '#').
>>
>
> Take a look here
> http://colton.byuh.edu/courses/tut/printf.pdf
>
> printf "%05d",08  produces    00000,08
> printf "%05d",8    produces    00000,8
> printf "%05d"8     produces    0000008
> printf "%05d".8    produces    000000.8

Thanks, that helped,
Peter

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 22:57:39 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:57:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190024561.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Peter wrote:
>> printf "%05d" 08
>> it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it
>> think it's octal ?!
>
> Because the syntax of the arguments (after the format string) to the
> printf command is defined -- in the POSIX standard -- to be the same as
> that of C constants, with some minor extensions, and in C, a leading 0
> means an octal number.  (The fact that the FSF's documentation for the
> printf command fails to discuss this is a documentation bug.)

Point taken.

>> printf "%05d" 10#08
>> -bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number
>>
>> (according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it
>> does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a
>> backslash-escaped '#').
>
> That notation is for the $(( )) construct, the shell's built-in expression
> evaluation; it doesn't apply everywhere.  If you try this:
>
> 	printf "%05d" $((10#08))
>
> you'll find that it works.

Yes it does. The explanation for the b#n syntax is in the 'Arithmetic 
Evaluation' section of the bash manpage but I failed to realize it 
applies only in that context (I would expect anything being treated as a 
number, and not escaped, to be subjected to this expansion - but there 
may be cases where this may not be good).

>> I wrote a small C program to test atoi, strtod and strtoul and the
>> latter is broken (is it ?). E.g.:
>> plp at plp:~/tc$ ./1 08
>> atoi: 8
>> strtod: 8.000000
>> strtoul: 0
>
> Does your program check to see whether strtoul() actually consumed the
> whole string?  If you specified 0 as the "base" argument of strtoul(),
> then it follows the C rules, so a leading 0x means hex, a leading 0
> followed by a valid octal digit is octal, and otherwise the 0 is the
> whole number and there's some trash following it.

strtoul consumed the 0 and returned a pointer to the 8, but without 
rising any error, as expected. That being said, why does the printf 
shell command raise an error with the same parameters ? Does it delimit 
on the token 08 and then notice that strtoul returned a pointer to 
inside the token ?

> No.  Quoth "man strtoul" (after a discussion of possible leading white
> space and sign):
>
>       If base  is  zero  or  16,  the
>       string may then include a `0x' prefix, and the number will
>       be read in base 16; otherwise, a zero base is taken as  10
>       (decimal)  unless the next character is `0', in which case
>       it is taken as 8 (octal).
>
> In other words, with a zero base, a leading 0 not followed by x means
> octal, period.

Right, I missed that.

>> It should look at the
>> whole string and match the highest base it can, starting from the last
>> character that is not convertible with any base, imho.
>
> That is an interesting notion, but it is *not* the specification for
> strtoul().  You don't have to guess how these things work; it's
> documented.

Yes, but it's painful imho. Is there a well-known workaround to make it 
work with 'automatic' base recognition as I suggested ? One way would be 
to strip leading 0's if they are followed by a character that may be a 
digit in any of the bases strtoul accepts. e.g. something like:

 	// chars that do not introduce a 0%c... base escape and are not octal
 	#define STRTOUL_CHARS \
 		"089abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWYZ"
 	char *my_strtoul(char *a, char **z, int b)
 	{
 	    if(!b)
 	        while( *a && *(a+1) && (*a=='0') &&
 	            (!strchr(STRTOUL_CHARS,*(a+1))) )
 	                ++a;
  	    return(strtoul(a,z,b));
 	}

This would make 008 a decimal number and 00a a number in base 11. If 
someone needs octal he shall call my_strtoul with argument 3 == 8.

There are other ways to write this (and it may be incorrect - not 
tested!). The code above will probably force octal numbers to be read as 
something else (decimal probably) so it cannot coexist with default 
strtoul but it fixes my problem (I think).

thanks,
Peter
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 18 23:19:01 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:19:01 -0500
Subject: Setting the timeout for the network card
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD20AE@RIKER>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD20AE@RIKER>
Message-ID: <423B61E5.4060201@sympatico.ca>

Jim Skehill wrote:

>I'm running Mandrake 9.2 on a laptop with a Wireless and a Network card. 
>
>When I start up without a network cable plugged into the network card (i.e.
>using a wireless connection) it takes around a minute longer then when it is
>plugged in. I assume that this is because the startup sequence is repeatedly
>trying the network card connection before eventually timing out. 
>
>Does anyone know where this timeout is set? I'd like to shorten it.
>
Jim, are you mounting filesystems on network devices at boot? If so, you 
might use the _netdev option in /etc/fstab (man mount).
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 02:35:13 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:35:13 -0500
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190024561.1356-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000@spsystems.net> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190024561.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050319023513.GA21359@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Sat, Mar 19, 2005 at 12:57:39AM +0200, Peter wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Henry Spencer wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Peter wrote:
> >>printf "%05d" 08
> >>it says 'invalid number' for any number of 0's before the 8. Why does it
> >>think it's octal ?!
> >
> >Because the syntax of the arguments (after the format string) to the
> >printf command is defined -- in the POSIX standard -- to be the same as
> >that of C constants, with some minor extensions, and in C, a leading 0
> >means an octal number.  (The fact that the FSF's documentation for the
> >printf command fails to discuss this is a documentation bug.)
> 
> Point taken.
> 
> >>printf "%05d" 10#08
> >>-bash: printf: 10#08: invalid number
> >>
> >>(according to the bash manual that notation should force decimal - it
> >>does not - not in quotes and not in ticks and not with a
> >>backslash-escaped '#').
> >
> >That notation is for the $(( )) construct, the shell's built-in expression
> >evaluation; it doesn't apply everywhere.  If you try this:
> >
> >	printf "%05d" $((10#08))
> >
> >you'll find that it works.
> 
> Yes it does. The explanation for the b#n syntax is in the 'Arithmetic 
> Evaluation' section of the bash manpage but I failed to realize it 
> applies only in that context (I would expect anything being treated as a 
> number, and not escaped, to be subjected to this expansion - but there 
> may be cases where this may not be good).

As far as bash is concerned, the argument to printf is just
a bunch of characters, not a string.  Imagine a program
addinventory that takes an incoming shipment and adds it to
the amount of inventory on hand - with pairs of arguments that
are part-key and quantity-received.

addinventory x3y2 24
addinventory 0z99 144
addinventory 0x33 75

You wouldn't want bash to change the part key on the last
command to 51 because bash decided to treat it as a number?

> >
> >That is an interesting notion, but it is *not* the specification for
> >strtoul().  You don't have to guess how these things work; it's
> >documented.
> 
> Yes, but it's painful imho. Is there a well-known workaround to make it 
> work with 'automatic' base recognition as I suggested ? One way would be 
> to strip leading 0's if they are followed by a character that may be a 
> digit in any of the bases strtoul accepts. e.g. something like:
> 
> 	// chars that do not introduce a 0%c... base escape and are not octal
> 	#define STRTOUL_CHARS \
> 		"089abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWYZ"
> 	char *my_strtoul(char *a, char **z, int b)
> 	{
> 	    if(!b)
> 	        while( *a && *(a+1) && (*a=='0') &&
> 	            (!strchr(STRTOUL_CHARS,*(a+1))) )
> 	                ++a;
>  	    return(strtoul(a,z,b));
> 	}
> 
> This would make 008 a decimal number and 00a a number in base 11. If 
> someone needs octal he shall call my_strtoul with argument 3 == 8.
> 
> There are other ways to write this (and it may be incorrect - not 
> tested!). The code above will probably force octal numbers to be read as 
> something else (decimal probably) so it cannot coexist with default 
> strtoul but it fixes my problem (I think).

Why would 008 be decimal and not base 9?  Is 0101 binary
or octal?

If you guess the base from which digits are used, there are
lots of numbers in that base that can't be written because
they happen to only use small digits.

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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 01:40:06 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:40:06 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft
 Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20050318200403.33808.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050318200403.33808.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <423B82F6.7010509@almatau.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:
...
> 
> - When we ran our office mail server under Windows
> 2000 we needed three PCs, and we could expect things
> to run 3 days before being forced to reboot the boxes
> (becuse at least one of the boxes had locked up).
> Since moving to FreeBSD we need one box in place of
> those three, we are running more services off that
> box, and we have had to reboot the box five times over
> the last year (four of the reboots were planned /
> scheduled in advance, and the fifth was caused by a
> power failure that lasted longer than our UPS). How
> would Windows improve our reliability/uptime and lower
> our cost?
> 
> Colin McGregor
> 

Don't expect anything spectacular.  You'll be told about buggy third-party
drivers and wrong configuration, which wasn't verified by the brave 
support team.
There are answers for any questions one may ask.  Just because they're asked
for at least 15 years.
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 05:52:26 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:52:26 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503190052.26872.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

Hi,

I attended a presentation like this around the same time last year where Bill 
Hilf was the featured enthusiast for hire. He was glib (N.B. nothing to do 
with glibc) and well rehearsed. He made a few valid points but for the most 
part, it was a combination of half truths, straw man arguments, red herrings, 
and non sequiturs. If you followed some of his arguments to their logical 
conclusions, you should be convinced to adopt Apple's OS X, not Windows. He 
emphasized Microsoft's highly integrated "stack", marketing speak, not tech 
speak, often, while pointing out that Linux did not offer this. After all, 
what is more highly integrated than Apple's products? Hilf seemed to be 
especially excited about the new shell, monad, in Longhorn and how one could 
access the .NET framework from the shell. He wrote some trivial scripts that 
using monad and .NET to output fancy charts representing system load, never 
mind the fact that can be done any number of ways in Linux. Of course he 
would portray that variety of choices as a disadvantage, and in some 
respects, he would not be totally wrong.

I doubt any of the people in attendance who were comfortable with *nix changed 
their minds about Microsoft after that evening but I suspect that the 
Microsoft FUD message resonated with the people who were ignorant of *nix. 
There were a few gentlemen at my table who had never seen Linux in their 
lives and were shocked when I showed them this "archaic" OS on my laptop 
running Mandrake with KDE. They were *really* impressed when I showed them 
Windows XP Pro safely contained within a VMware virtual machine. (I take 
perverse pleasure in running Windows that way. It reminds me of various sci 
fi movies with brains being kept alive in jars and that sort of thing.)

Having said this, no matter what you may think of Microsoft, it is a major 
player and one that should not be ignored. If for nothing else than to burn 
Microsoft's money and get a "free" copy of Windows Server 2003 (of which I 
have, count 'em, two, from such events), the event is wortwhile. If you do 
cross platform software development, as I do, it is quite useful to have a 
menagerie of Windows boxes kicking around to test things.

Speaking of cross platform development and testing, I am on a PyQt for Windows 
adventure these days. One of these days, I should do a TLUG talk about the 
various technologies I have been using for the last few years, PostgreSQL, 
Webware for Python for XML-RPC services, Mozilla XUL/XBL, PyGTK, Qt, Mandrake 
Linux, Subversion, and maybe even a talk about creating RPM packages, with an 
emphasis on Mandrake's urpmi but that will have to wait until my workload is 
a little lighter.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 11:11:38 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:11:38 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <20050319023513.GA21359-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000@spsystems.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190024561.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20050319023513.GA21359@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503191029570.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:

> As far as bash is concerned, the argument to printf is just
> a bunch of characters, not a string.  Imagine a program
> addinventory that takes an incoming shipment and adds it to
> the amount of inventory on hand - with pairs of arguments that
> are part-key and quantity-received.
>
> addinventory x3y2 24
> addinventory 0z99 144
> addinventory 0x33 75
>
> You wouldn't want bash to change the part key on the last
> command to 51 because bash decided to treat it as a number?

No, but I'd expect the command line to be sane decimal number-wise (2005 
style, not 1970s style). So I'd expect 0012 to be evaluated as 12 
decimal not 10 decimal in *any* number context and that behavior to be 
consistent, or at least 10#0012 to be decimal in any numeric context 
(for example, when bash::printf is converting an argument for a %d 
option). Especially when handling directory structures as often used 
with databases, mail systems etc (directories 00,01,02 ...). All is well 
until one writes a script to iterate over them numerically by 
incrementing the 'name' as a number, when it is already formatted, and 
then reach 00008, and oops, we have a problem. Or execve a program 
written in C with a filename of the form 00012 as argument, convert it 
using strtoul in the hope of being able to iterate over more files like 
it (like 00013, 00014 ...), and end up with unexpected results. Lesson: 
*always* step past leading zeros in a number to be converted with 
strtoul(_,_,0) unless expecting octal input base.

The previous time this 'bug' happened (in September - see thread on this 
list) I did not even realise what was causing the error. Now I am wiser 
thanks to the list. Of course it is my mistake that I did not think 
about this myself.

For reference, the thread was 'Re: [TLUG]: re: bash limits' and there I 
also tried to iterate over formatted numerical directory names in a 
loop, using something like N=$(( $N + 1 )) to increment the directory 
name where $N was of the form 0000xxx with xxx decimal digits. Some 
files and directories 'disappeared' for no apparent reason from the 
test-set while I was running that script. They were probably teleported 
to octal-land (in the sense that the filenames changed in unexpected 
ways) and subsequently inaccessible using the script's addressing logic. 
I guess it would have worked if I had used octal throughout.

I understand what happened then only now: The first few runs always 
worked, and this was because the script looked at the directory to pick 
up the last file used (as a number). If none was found, it started with 
0 and all was well. Or it would find file 1234 and continue with 1235. 
But sometimes, it would find something like 0013 as last filename, and 
use it in a numerical context to find the next free filename. That would 
give $((0013+1)) = 12 decimal. The next formatted output would use 0012 
decimal as filename and overwrite files 0012 and 0013. Voila, 
disappeared files ...

> Why would 008 be decimal and not base 9?  Is 0101 binary
> or octal?

Normal people assume that the default base for numbers on the command 
line is the one they use everyday. With or without leading zeros. By 
this I do not mean sysadmins and programmers, but average users who know 
10 commands and don't want to learn more (not my case but this is the 
idea).

> If you guess the base from which digits are used, there are
> lots of numbers in that base that can't be written because
> they happen to only use small digits.

I agree. But when set to automatically detect the base then the program 
*should* try a number in the default *user* number base first (as 
opposed to the system default, octal), then try the rest. At least 
that's my opinion. By program I mean most shell commands meant to be 
used by users. I realise that this would break the usual use of chmod 
but that could be made an exception. It's just an opinion.

The 'new' way to intrepret numbers could be merged into the existing 
strtoul using base=1 as flag. It would try to convert as decimal, in 
despite of leading zeros, and also allow binary input using 0b as 
prefix.

I realise that 20 years of doing things in a certain way cannot be 
overturned (and should not be), but I still want my convenience.

Can you quote one application, excepting chmod, where octal use on the 
command line is common ?

For example, scanf %i also has the 'octal bug', but %i is relatively 
seldomly used. So is octal. Using 0 (a valid digit in any base) to flag 
an octal number is a really bad idea imho, especially since there is no 
way to escape it in a consistent way ( $((10#0012)) won't work if the 
program is execv'd directly and uses strtoul to convert some arguments 
passed on the command line).

thanks,
Peter

PS: Here is a revision of strtoul(), tested. A test program and makefile 
were mailed separately to the list on this thread.

// use base=1 to convert numbers using decimal default base,
// even if leading 0s are present. Also accept binary using
// prefix 0b. - plp
unsigned long int my_strtoul(const char *a, char **z, int b)
{
         if(b==1) {
                 while( *a && *(a+1) && (*a=='0') && isdigit(*(a+1)) )
                         ++a;
                 if( *a && *(a+1) && *(a+2) && (*a=='0') &&
                         isdigit(*(a+2)) && ((*(a+1)=='b') || (*(a+1)=='B')) )
                                 return(strtoul(a+2,z,2));
                 b=0;
                 // this may break some program assumptions
                 // about z if the conversion fails
                 if(z)
                         *z = (char*) a;
         }
         return(strtoul(a,z,b));
}

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 11:18:07 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:18:07 +0200 (IST)
Subject: printf bad ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503191315320.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Here is a test program and its makefile for an octal-less strtoul that 
uses base=1 as flag for this type of conversion;

Subject: Files: 'new_strtoul' (Sat Mar 19 13:15:14 IST 2005)

--- begin '2.c' ---
/*
  * 2.c test program for 'octal bug' in strtoul() and simple fix
  *
  * plp 2005
  */
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <ctype.h>
#include <errno.h>

// new strtoul adds option base=1 for default decimal conversion - plp
unsigned long int new_strtoul(const char *a, char **z, int base);

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
 	char *p, *q;
 	double v;
 	int i;
 	unsigned long int l;

 	if(argc != 2) {
 		printf("usage: ./2 <number>\n");
 		exit(1);
 	}

 	i = atoi(argv[1]);
 	printf("atoi: %d\n",i);

 	p = q = argv[1];
 	errno = 0;
 	v = strtod(p,&q);
 	if(q==p)
 		printf("strtod: failed\n");
 	else
 		printf("strtod: %f\n",v);
 	if(errno)
 		perror("errno: ");

 	p = q = argv[1];
 	errno = 0;
 	l = strtoul(p,&q,0);
 	if((q==p)||*q)
 		perror("strtoul: failed: ");
 	else
 		printf("strtoul: %lu\n",l);
 	if(errno)
 		perror("errno: ");

 	p = q = argv[1];
 	errno = 0;
 	l = new_strtoul(p,&q,1);
 	if((q==p)||*q)
 		perror("new_strtoul: failed: ");
 	else
 		printf("new_strtoul: %ld (0x%lX)\n", l, l );
 	if(errno)
 		perror("errno: ");

 	exit(0);
}

// use base=1 to convert numbers using decimal default base,
// even if leading 0s are present. Also accept binary using
// prefix 0b. - plp
unsigned long int new_strtoul(const char *a, char **z, int b)
{
 	if(b==1) {
 		while( *a && *(a+1) && (*a=='0') && isdigit(*(a+1)) )
 			++a;
 		if( *a && *(a+1) && *(a+2) && (*a=='0') &&
 			isdigit(*(a+2)) && ((*(a+1)=='b') || (*(a+1)=='B')) )
 				return(strtoul(a+2,z,2));
 		b=0;
 		// this may break some program assumptions
 		// about z if the conversion fails
 		if(z)
 			*z = (char*) a;
 	}
 	return(strtoul(a,z,b));
}
--- end '2.c' ---
--- begin 'makefile' ---
#
# makefile for 2.c my_strtoul test
#
# plp 2005
#
# build: make
# run: ./2 012 (for example)
#
CC 	= gcc
CFLAGS 	= -Wall -g
SRCS 	= 2.c makefile

ALL: 2

clean:
 	rm -f 2

mailto:
 	D=`pwd`; B=`basename $$D`; \
 	echo -n "email '$$B' files to: "; read ADDR; \
 	for f in $(SRCS); do echo "--- begin '$$f' ---"; cat $$f;\
 	echo "--- end '$$f' ---"; done |\
 		mail -s "Files: '$$B' ($$(date))" "$$ADDR"


--- end 'makefile' ---
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 14:28:05 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:28:05 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <200503190052.26872.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c52c8f$ef77abb0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

I have been involved with a vendor of big iron hardware that was heavily
committed to Microsoft and I can tell you that M$ is deeply disturbed with
the emergence of Linux and Open Source in general. But this time, there is
no easy target to pursue in order to contain the phenomenon: how can you go
after tens of thousands of voluntary developers and distributors of "free"
distros? When a company that has been a M$ partner for years announces that
Linux will now be offered on their equipment I can tell you they receive
lots of "communications" from high-ranked M$ executives telling them their
disappointment, and at the same time reminding them of the importance of
"keeping" or "re-enforcing" their existing commercial relationship.

It is true that many executives have never seen or heard of Linux, there is
a growing number of them reading about open source in magazines, or hearing
water cooler conversations about it, but there are more and more cases of
large organizations giving open source a chance and realizing all the
benefits of not being locked-in a single-vendor technology that dictates
them which technology and hardware to buy, and at which price.

True, M$ is a formidable machine with 90% of the desktop market, but they
have lots of difficulty increasing their presence in the server world while
Linux is slowly taking over from the proprietary UNIXes and the same time
gaining ground for new systems. I have been working on many proposals where
M$ was fiercely trying to sell their Server 2003 in an enterprise server
solution and I can tell you their success rate is not what they would like
to see...

I agree that we shall not ignore or underestimate the "enemy", and keep an
open mind on the current market offerings, especially when can get a free
lunch or dinner after listening to some FUD.

But those events where they openly invite open source proponents might as
well work against them, when people like our colleague Clifford brings a
laptop loaded with open source goodies and show it to the attendees!

Remember, the best things in life are free, and so is Open Source.

Openly yours,

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>




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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 15:09:36 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:09:36 +0000
Subject: Setting the timeout for the network card
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD20AE@RIKER>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4BD20AE@RIKER>
Message-ID: <200503191509.36441.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 18, 2005 02:58 pm, Jim Skehill wrote:
> I'm running Mandrake 9.2 on a laptop with a Wireless and a Network card.
>
> When I start up without a network cable plugged into the network card (i.e.
> using a wireless connection) it takes around a minute longer then when it
> is plugged in. I assume that this is because the startup sequence is
> repeatedly trying the network card connection before eventually timing out.
>
> Does anyone know where this timeout is set? I'd like to shorten it.
>
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

Changing this in Mandrake 9.2 should be as follows:

open /etc/sysconfig/network

Add a line as below:

DHCP_TIMEOUT=#  
where # is replaced by the number of seconds you would like to wait


In a Gentoo environment you would edit /etc/conf.d/net(interface_name_here)

and add or edit the following line

dhcpcd_eth0="-t #"
where # is replaced by the number of seconds you would like to wait

Hope this helps.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 16:26:11 2005
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 19 Mar 2005 11:26:11 -0500
Subject: printf bad ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503191029570.1356-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050318152924.1060F-100000@spsystems.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0503190024561.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20050319023513.GA21359@lupus.perlwolf.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0503191029570.1356@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <lt1xabtxek.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Peter <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:
> 
> > As far as bash is concerned, the argument to printf is just
> > a bunch of characters, not a string.  Imagine a program
> > addinventory that takes an incoming shipment and adds it to
> > the amount of inventory on hand - with pairs of arguments that
> > are part-key and quantity-received.
> >
> > addinventory x3y2 24
> > addinventory 0z99 144
> > addinventory 0x33 75
> >
> > You wouldn't want bash to change the part key on the last
> > command to 51 because bash decided to treat it as a number?
> 
> No, but I'd expect the command line to be sane decimal number-wise (2005
> style, not 1970s style). So I'd expect 0012 to be evaluated as 12 decimal not
> 10 decimal in *any* number context and that behavior to be consistent, or at
> least 10#0012 to be decimal in any numeric context (for example, when
> bash::printf is converting an argument for a %d option).

You're talking about the principle of least surprise which, IMO, dictates
that bash printf behaves like /usr/bin/printf which, in turn, behaves like
C's printf() (not to menion awk's printf, Perl's printf, etc.).  Anything
else would be inconsistent and lead to bugs.

> Especially when
> handling directory structures as often used with databases, mail systems etc
> (directories 00,01,02 ...). All is well until one writes a script to iterate
> over them numerically by incrementing the 'name' as a number, when it is
> already formatted, and then reach 00008, and oops, we have a problem.

The easiest way to do that is to use zsh:

    for file in <0->; do
        something $file
    done

which iterates over all numerically named files.

Of course, files are commonly named with leading zeros to force numeric order
and alphabetic order to be the same, so these examples seem contrived as you
can just iterate like this:

    for file in *; do
        something $file
    done

> Or
> execve a program written in C with a filename of the form 00012 as argument,
> convert it using strtoul in the hope of being able to iterate over more files
> like it (like 00013, 00014 ...), and end up with unexpected results. Lesson:
> *always* step past leading zeros in a number to be converted with
> strtoul(_,_,0) unless expecting octal input base.

Unless decimal is part of the specification, how do you know the files aren't
named in octal sequence?  Database applications like this shouldn't be
written to do the most likely (but possibly incorrect) thing, they should be
written to do the correct thing.  IOW, if you want to iterate through the
files in decimal sequence, say so and write:

    strtoul(_, _, 10)

[snip]

> > Why would 008 be decimal and not base 9?  Is 0101 binary
> > or octal?
> 
> Normal people assume that the default base for numbers on the command line is
> the one they use everyday. With or without leading zeros. By this I do not
> mean sysadmins and programmers, but average users who know 10 commands and
> don't want to learn more (not my case but this is the idea).

There is no default base for numbers on the command line as the command line
(or rather bash in this case) deals only with strings unless explicitly
provided a numeric context like:

    $(( ))

Besides, users who know 10 commands and don't want to learn more are unlikely
to need or want printf.  If you're using printf, you're programming, at which
point you'd be well advised to learn something about your tools.  Doctors,
carpenters, dentists, plumbers, machinists, etc. learn how to use their tools
before jumping in at the deep end.  Why should programmers (even casual or
hobbyist programmers) be any different?  If you're not interested in learning
how to use the tools properly and if you're unwilling to learn why things
work the way they do, you're not going to enjoy programming.  Life is short,
find something more interesting to do with your time.

> > If you guess the base from which digits are used, there are
> > lots of numbers in that base that can't be written because
> > they happen to only use small digits.
> 
> I agree. But when set to automatically detect the base then the program
> *should* try a number in the default *user* number base first (as opposed to
> the system default, octal), then try the rest. At least that's my opinion. By
> program I mean most shell commands meant to be used by users. I realise that
> this would break the usual use of chmod but that could be made an
> exception. It's just an opinion.

Again, there's no default user base and no system default.  Many programs
operate in decimal as the norm, many (most?) programming languages use the
conventions described herein, other applications use something altogether
different.  There is no convention that makes sense for all programs all the
time.  In general, programmers choose a "reasonable" convention for the
particular problem domain.

[snip]

> Can you quote one application, excepting chmod, where octal use on the
> command line is common ?

printf ;-)

[snip]

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
647.722.5301                                      toronto, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 18:32:26 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:32:26 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft
 Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <000e01c52c8f$ef77abb0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <200503190052.26872.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <000e01c52c8f$ef77abb0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <423C703A.7010600@rogers.com>

Francois Ouellette wrote:
> I have been involved with a vendor of big iron hardware that was heavily
> committed to Microsoft and I can tell you that M$ is deeply disturbed with
> the emergence of Linux and Open Source in general. But this time, there is
> no easy target to pursue in order to contain the phenomenon: how can you go
> after tens of thousands of voluntary developers and distributors of "free"
> distros? When a company that has been a M$ partner for years announces that
> Linux will now be offered on their equipment I can tell you they receive
> lots of "communications" from high-ranked M$ executives telling them their
> disappointment, and at the same time reminding them of the importance of
> "keeping" or "re-enforcing" their existing commercial relationship.

Perhaps that big iron company would do well to remind MS about their 
"exisiting commercial relationship" re: an excellent operating system, 
that MS initially helped to develop and for which they promised lots of 
support and which Sir Bill proclaimed was the OS of the '90s.


> But those events where they openly invite open source proponents might as
> well work against them, when people like our colleague Clifford brings a
> laptop loaded with open source goodies and show it to the attendees!
> 
> Remember, the best things in life are free, and so is Open Source.

Perhaps all of TLUG should show up with Linux on notebooks, to add to 
the MS show.  ;-)

Or at least make a reservation, even if you don't plan to go.  :-)

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From rickslinux-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 20:48:24 2005
From: rickslinux-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:48:24 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <423C49C8.9546.10CBA95@localhost>

You can simply ignore this invitation. Their founders business philosophy has always 
been one of 'assimilation' (see Borg, Star Trek). What does the big 'pig' of a 
company need with Open Source anyways? Looks like they are running out of ideas.
RickT
http://www.TorontoNUI.ca


On 18 Mar 2005 at 14:25, Robert Brockway wrote:

> In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.
> 
> I do however, have to question the independence of anything stated about 
> Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event.  I am yet to see any 
> evidence they really want to work with the OSS community on openness.
> 
> Rob
> 
> -- 
> Robert Brockway B.Sc.
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
> Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
> Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
> From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
>     Technical Briefing Dinner
> 
> By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
> Manager at Microsoft Canada.
> 
> 
> As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
> of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
> on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
> your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed.   I would
> like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
> to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
> Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
> event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
> Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided. 
> 
>  
> 
> Hear Bill Hilf speak on the evolution of operating platforms. Gain
> insights into how Linux and OSS have developed, how they are tested,
> distributed and more. Explore the Ecosystem - who are the players and
> who's accountable for what. And finally, get the answers to the
> questions on everybody's mind: Are Linux and OSS driving technology
> innovation? What is the roadmap for strategic IT planning?
> 
> 
> Bill is Microsoft's technical lead for competitive strategy at Microsoft
> and responsible for quarterly open source technology reviews with
> Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates. Prior to
> joining Microsoft, Bill was a Senior I/T Architect and the Linux
> technical leader for IBM's Global Emerging and Competitive Markets
> organization.  In this role, he led Linux technical strategy at a
> world-wide level in addition to his direct customer interaction as a
> consulting architect. Bill has been involved with Open Source software
> as a developer, architect, and evangelist for over nine years, and is an
> IEEE Distinguished Visitor on the subject of Linux and Open Source
> software.
> 
>  
> 
> As an added bonus, all attendees will receive the "Expand Your
> Knowledge" kit to facilitate your continued learning and evaluation
> process.  This kit is free of charge and has an estimated retail value
> of over $1000. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *	Complementary full working copy of Microsoft Windows Server(tm)
> 2003 Standard Edition operating system 
> 
>  
> 
> *	Microsoft Press Book - Windows Administrator Companion ($43.99
> ERP*)
> 
>  
> 
> *	Product Evaluation Software 
> 
>  
> 
> Additional information on this exclusive event is included in the
> invitation attached.  To register, please visit:  
> http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032271365&Cu
> lture=en-CA
> or call 1-877-673-8368 (Event ID 1032271365).
> 
>  
> 
> Spaces are limited - RSVP soon. If for any reason individuals the user
> group are unable to register, please feel free to email me directly. I
> look forward to seeing you at the event!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Harp Girn
> 
> TechNet Community Manager
> 
> Microsoft Canada
> 
> v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org <mailto:v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org> 
> 
> 905-568-0434 ext. 26233
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 


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From glim-h9HFRHmGWfgWI+UwmH2aBQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 19 23:23:00 2005
From: glim-h9HFRHmGWfgWI+UwmH2aBQ at public.gmane.org (glim-h9HFRHmGWfgWI+UwmH2aBQ at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 18:23 -0500
Subject: [OT]Yet Another Perl Conference, North America, 2005 Registration now open
Message-ID: <m1DCnjY-000Yi5C@mail.cybrnet.net>

Hello...

Here is something for people interested in the Perl programming
language.  Conference registration for Yet Another Perl Conference North 
America 2005 has just opened.  YAPC is the grass-roots, all-volunteer 
annual Perl conference.  Because it is volunteer-driven it is very 
affordable.  Because the volunteers are passionate about Perl its 
quality is very high.

If this has sparked your interest please take a look at the details here
and more details on the conference web site.  Have any questions?  You can 
contact the conference organizers by email at: na-help at yapc.org

Thanks for reading!

  ---------->
    Yet Another Perl Conference, North America, 2005 Registration now
    open.

    Conference dates:  Monday - Wednesday 27 - 29 June 2005

    Location:  89 Chestnut Street         http://89chestnut.com/
               University of Toronto
               Toronto, Ontario, Canada

    Info at: http://yapc.org/America
             http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml

    Direct registration: 
http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423

    Full registration fee $85 (USD)

    Book now for great deals on accommodations and ensure a space for
    yourself.

    Speaking slots are still open.  If you would like to present at
    YAPC::NA 2005, see: http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml

    Details of this announcement:
       http://yapc.org/America/registration-announcement-2005.txt
    <----------

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From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 01:29:48 2005
From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:29:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sending text message from TELLUS WEB SITE
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050320012948.30337.qmail@web50803.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am using the  use LWP 5.64 perl module  writring a
scripts to send a text message to my cell phone from
web
http://www.telusmobility.com/sendamessage/sendamessage.shtml

but I got the following error
"http://www.telusmobility.com/sendamessage/sendamessage.shtml
error: 405 Method Not Allowed at tellus line 37."


Does any body kown what's that error mean how to solve
it?

Thanks!
Louie
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 01:45:19 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:45:19 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:25:08 -0500 (EST), Robert Brockway
<rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> In the interests of fairness I am forwarding this.
> 
> I do however, have to question the independence of anything stated about
> Linux/OSS by Microsoft staff at a Microsoft event.  I am yet to see any
> evidence they really want to work with the OSS community on openness.
> 
> Rob
> 
> --
> Robert Brockway B.Sc.
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
> Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
> Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:15:25 -0800
> From: "Harpreet Girn (Intl Vendor)" <v-hgirn-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org>
> To: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform
>     Technical Briefing Dinner
> 
> By way of introduction, my name is Harp Girn. I am the TechNet Community
> Manager at Microsoft Canada.
> 
> As the leader of a highly technical community, you know the importance
> of providing your fellow user group members with the latest information
> on the technology alternatives available. Here's a chance for you and
> your user group to Expand Your Knowledge and Stay Informed.   I would
> like to cordially invite members of the Toronto Linux User Group Online
> to the "Expand Your Knowledge" Event with Bill Hilf, Lead Program
> Manager for the Platform Strategy Group at Microsoft. This complimentary
> event will be held at the Toronto Marriott Bloor Yorkville in Toronto on
> Thursday, April 14th, 2005 at 6:00pm. A dinner will be provided.

According to the web site, the event is now full.

----------------------------------
Registration Options

Event Code
1032271365
Registration for this event is now full. We are accepting waitlist
registrations.
-----------------------------------

Oh well .. I'm sure the list would be intrigued to hear about the
event from anyone who manages to attend.

Alex
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 01:54:04 2005
From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:54:04 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <f9870c0105031917451b534b25-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:45:19 -0500, Alex Beamish <talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Oh well .. I'm sure the list would be intrigued to hear about the
> event from anyone who manages to attend.
> 
> Alex

I signed up okay last night, so there must be a demand. I don't really
care if M$ is such a horrible company, or if they can be closely
related to the Borg from Star Treck. My motto is, any information I
can learn for free I will.

-- 
- Adam Raymond -
--
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How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 03:22:08 2005
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:22:08 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423CA610.699.815748@localhost>

Point well taken...however I would'nt want to pollute my mind with the drivel from their 
publicity department. If Linux were of no consequence to them, this event would'nt be 
taking place.
RickT
http://www.TorontoNUI.ca

On 19 Mar 2005 at 20:54, Adam Raymond wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:45:19 -0500, Alex Beamish <talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Oh well .. I'm sure the list would be intrigued to hear about the
> > event from anyone who manages to attend.
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> I signed up okay last night, so there must be a demand. I don't really
> care if M$ is such a horrible company, or if they can be closely
> related to the Borg from Star Treck. My motto is, any information I
> can learn for free I will.
> 
> -- 
> - Adam Raymond -
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 03:31:07 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:31:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the
 Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> 
 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com> <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Adam Raymond wrote:

> I signed up okay last night, so there must be a demand. I don't really
> care if M$ is such a horrible company, or if they can be closely
> related to the Borg from Star Treck. My motto is, any information I
> can learn for free I will.

Ah but what if the information is inaccurate or just downright wrong?

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 03:31:29 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:31:29 -0500
Subject: Configuring Apache 2.0.53
In-Reply-To: <20050320012948.30337.qmail-XWjPf3fAVHGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050320012948.30337.qmail@web50803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1111289489.11660.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi all,

I am trying to get Apache to work on FC3, and do a LoadModule of a
library that has been built with the API to do database access.

I tried various options for the build but when apachectl is trying to do
the LoadModule of the library in the httpd.conf file I get the error
that the module cannot be loaded due to undefined symbol: ap_table_get.

Does anyone know which module we must enable in 'configure' to have the
API's module included in the build?

Thanks.

Francois Ouellette

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From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 03:35:36 2005
From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:35:36 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:31:07 -0500 (EST), Robert Brockway
<rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Ah but what if the information is inaccurate or just downright wrong?
> 
> Rob

Well,  It's a fairly interesting topic. But I doubt anyone could convert me. :P

-- 
- Adam Raymond -
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 04:38:11 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:38:11 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the
	Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 22:35 -0500, Adam Raymond wrote:
> Well,  It's a fairly interesting topic. But I doubt anyone could
> convert me. :P
> 
I certainly hope not, considering all the effort I put in to convert you
over to the enlightened side in the first place. :lol:

John

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From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 04:48:46 2005
From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:48:46 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:38:11 -0500, John McGregor
<mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I certainly hope not, considering all the effort I put in to convert you
> over to the enlightened side in the first place. :lol:
> 
> John
> 

ha ha Not at all John, but yes it is true, you helped me a lot. Are
you going to the Microsoft thing? Is anyone going?

-- 
- Adam Raymond -
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 05:23:26 2005
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:23:26 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the
	Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>
	 <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1111296206.17743.4.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 23:48 -0500, Adam Raymond wrote:
> ha ha Not at all John, but yes it is true, you helped me a lot. Are
> you going to the Microsoft thing? Is anyone going?

I can't, though I would really like to. Speakers as fervent as he is
likely to be are always good for a few terrific straight lines.

John
 

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 12:44:58 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:44:58 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to theMicrosoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com> <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com> <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost> <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c@mail.gmail.com> <1111296206.17743.4.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <002401c52d4a$a076d7a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"John McGregor" <mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> on Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:23
AM wrote:

> On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 23:48 -0500, Adam Raymond wrote:
> > ha ha Not at all John, but yes it is true, you helped me a lot. Are
> > you going to the Microsoft thing? Is anyone going?
>
> I can't, though I would really like to. Speakers as fervent as he is
> likely to be are always good for a few terrific straight lines.

I plan to go, I have signed up, free food, and a chance to take my Debian
based laptop out for a spin :-) . Also, a chance to ask why (except for some
of their keyboards/mice) Microsoft makes such consistently crappy products
:-) .

Ok, so I will admit that my plans are not as gutsy as the guy who showed up
at a SCO event that I attended in late 2003 with a RedHat based laptop :-) .
Still, might I suggest that anyone with a non-Microsoft  based
laptop/palmtop (Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS, PalmOS, etc.) who is going to be at
this Microsoft event bring their device and show it :-) ....

Colin McGregor

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 12:54:30 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:54:30 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft
 Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <423D7286.9000407@rogers.com>

Adam Raymond wrote:

> Well,  It's a fairly interesting topic. But I doubt anyone could convert me. :P
> 
Resistance is futile.  You will be assimilated...   ;-)

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From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 15:17:25 2005
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:17:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to 
     theMicrosoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <002401c52d4a$a076d7a0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
    <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
    <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
    <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
    <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
    <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>
    <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c@mail.gmail.com>
    <1111296206.17743.4.camel@localhost>
    <002401c52d4a$a076d7a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <33809.69.194.252.231.1111331845.squirrel@www.drivingforcetech.ca>

All the more power to you Colin. I've travelled over a good part of the
states to major manufacturing facilites. What I've seen consistently are
MS desktops accessing Unix green/yellow screens and/or extracting data to
create new screens and hard copy. With a proper development environment
and qualified roll out staff MS is easily bumped out of the game. Once
this is accomplished they can focus on what they do best which is making
video games. Do you really want a toy company making your mission critical
software? Scary stuff...
RickT
http://www.TorontoNUI.ca

> "John McGregor" <mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> on Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:23
> AM wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 23:48 -0500, Adam Raymond wrote:
>> > ha ha Not at all John, but yes it is true, you helped me a lot. Are
>> > you going to the Microsoft thing? Is anyone going?
>>
>> I can't, though I would really like to. Speakers as fervent as he is
>> likely to be are always good for a few terrific straight lines.
>
> I plan to go, I have signed up, free food, and a chance to take my Debian
> based laptop out for a spin :-) . Also, a chance to ask why (except for
> some
> of their keyboards/mice) Microsoft makes such consistently crappy products
> :-) .
>
> Ok, so I will admit that my plans are not as gutsy as the guy who showed
> up
> at a SCO event that I attended in late 2003 with a RedHat based laptop :-)
> .
> Still, might I suggest that anyone with a non-Microsoft  based
> laptop/palmtop (Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS, PalmOS, etc.) who is going to be at
> this Microsoft event bring their device and show it :-) ....
>
> Colin McGregor
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 16:02:16 2005
From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to theMicrosoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <002401c52d4a$a076d7a0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <f9870c0105031917451b534b25@mail.gmail.com>
	 <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <34e8a43d050319193537e5e0b6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1111293491.15987.4.camel@localhost>
	 <34e8a43d05031920481bbdb44c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1111296206.17743.4.camel@localhost>
	 <002401c52d4a$a076d7a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <34e8a43d05032008023febd55b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:44:58 -0500, Colin McGregor
<colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ok, so I will admit that my plans are not as gutsy as the guy who showed up
> at a SCO event that I attended in late 2003 with a RedHat based laptop :-) .
> Still, might I suggest that anyone with a non-Microsoft  based
> laptop/palmtop (Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS, PalmOS, etc.) who is going to be at
> this Microsoft event bring their device and show it :-) ....
> 
> Colin McGregor

I plan on going. I have a IBM thinkpad laptop that I run slackware on.
Its an older model, and by that I mean the battery life is limited :(

-- 
- Adam Raymond -
--
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From jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 01:22:11 2005
From: jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Jose A. Dias)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:22:11 -0500
Subject: Hello? Is anybody there? Hello?
Message-ID: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>

Hello out there... Is anybody there? Hello?

Boy, this is a pretty big echo...

Hmm... Nothing said for over 24 hours. It's a new record, or some server
has been "upgraded" to exchange...

:-)

-- 
Jose Antonio Dias
Jose.Dias-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
www.diaslan.net
 
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From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 21 22:06:50 2005
From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:06:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mar 22nd., NewTLUG meeting (repost)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503211703050.24912-100000@white.buynet.com>


	This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held
	Tues Mar 22nd., at Seneca College.

...please note that the room is different than our usual room.
   more info below...


Date:		Tue, Mar 22nd.
Time:		7 - 10pm

Presenter:	TBA

Topic:  	Issues in Linux Today
		plus some NewTLUG adminstration discussion.

Location:       Rm 2171 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca @ York
		Building number 40 on the map:
		http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf
		The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the
		south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles.

Directions:	For detailed directions and info on public transit, please
		see:	http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~scs/seneca-directions.html

Parking:        Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8).
		Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking
		garage.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

	Herb Richter  <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
	Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario
	http://PartsAndService.com
	http://PartsAndService.ca





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From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 23:06:11 2005
From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael L Yang)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:06:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
 
Good day!
 
I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
 
 
PC ------------
                  \
                  WRT54G router ---- Rogers Modem ------Internet
                  /
Laptop-------
 
Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right direction.
 
Thank you for your time,
 
Michael



---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
-------------- next part --------------
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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 16:22:38 2005
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:22:38 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050322230611.86344.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503231122.38738.mervc@eol.ca>

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 18:06, Michael L Yang wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Good day!
>
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc
> and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The
> wired connection is as below:
>
>
> PC ------------
>                   \
>                   WRT54G router ---- Rogers Modem ------Internet
>                   /
> Laptop-------
>
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I
> switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not
> even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network
> Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right
> direction.
>
Why not try static addresses,  3 entries isn't a lot to put in your /etc/host 
file. 
  
-- 
Merv Curley
Toronto, Ont. Can

Mepis  Linux
KDE 3.3.1 Desktop   KMail 1.7.1


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From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 01:27:17 2005
From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:27:17 -0500
Subject: trying to understand why the Blackberry can't see a website
Message-ID: <20050323012400.8118C5F0D@outbox.allstream.net>

I have access to a Blackberry and have been trying its browser on a number of 
websites.     

The "Try Me" link at   http://www.io-anywhere.ca is one site where the 
Blackberry refuses to find the site and reports a "503" error,  yet every 
other browser I've tried finds it just fine.

At first I thought that the Blackberry was having trouble with html forms,  
but I tried one of my forms at  
http://www.icanprogram.com/31ux/linuxsurvey.html at it found it no problem.

I then tried wget on both URL's to see if I could detect a difference.   The 
only noticable difference is that when accessing the IOA site the wget 
reports an "unspecified" number of bytes whereas the iCanProgram site comes 
back with a number of bytes.

Anyone else have an idea what is happening here?

bob
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From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 21 05:39:31 2005
From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:39:31 -0800
Subject: TLUG at the LinuxWorld Canada Show
In-Reply-To: <423AB91F.4000802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <020401c52af5$ba37cb60$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <ebc50aa05031705516b595537@mail.gmail.com> <022201c52afa$d163dae0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <423A2A77.8030205@rogers.com> <eb26f96e05031718071c1495e1@mail.gmail.com> <423AB91F.4000802@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050321053931.GF2347@unleashed.org>

James Knott (james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) [050318 03:19]:
> Mike Newman wrote:
> >I'm a little bit disappointed that there isn't a discount for
> >students. Perhaps there is and I'm just missing it?
> 
> Trade shows tend not to have student discounts.  They focus on 
> "industry" people.  However, if you order soon enough, show registration 
> is free.

There's always OLS!  You can't beat it for the lack of marketing
crap and useful content.  And they do have student discounts.

-- 
Must not turn into a snake.  It never helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Leah R. M. Cunningham  |  (heinous)@freenode #suse 
www.heinous.org        |  Linux geek, et al.        
--------------------------------------------------
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 23:35:17 2005
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:35:17 -0500
Subject: Hello? Is anybody there? Hello?
In-Reply-To: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B-zSf3HPVPggFgk0lh67m1x+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>
Message-ID: <4240ABB5.7080505@sympatico.ca>

Nothing here either but your post.

Jose A. Dias wrote:

>Hello out there... Is anybody there? Hello?
>
>Boy, this is a pretty big echo...
>
>Hmm... Nothing said for over 24 hours. It's a new record, or some server
>has been "upgraded" to exchange...
>
>:-)
>
>  
>

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From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 21:01:02 2005
From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:01:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: list really quiet?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503221559180.5194-100000@iran.unitycode.org>

Did something happen to the list, or have I just magically become
unsubscribed? I haven't seen a message in 3 days...
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From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 16:04:39 2005
From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050322230611.86344.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b912425c050323080422698cf8@mail.gmail.com>

Can you verify that the route is correct?
route -n
Also, try stopping the firewall on the redhat box.

-Joseph-

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:06:11 -0500 (EST), Michael L Yang
<lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone, 
>   
> Good day! 
>   
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc
> and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The
> wired connection is as below: 
>   
>   
> PC ------------ 
>                   \ 
>                   WRT54G router ---- Rogers Modem ------Internet 
>                   / 
> Laptop------- 
>   
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I
> switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not even
> ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network
> Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right
> direction. 
>   
> Thank you for your time, 
>   
> Michael
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
>  
> 
>
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 06:06:30 2005
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 01:06:30 -0500
Subject: password expire via ftp
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503211703050.24912-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503211703050.24912-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <42410766.2030202@quadratic.net>

Hey guys,

Looking for a bit of help if anyone can spare it. I have a client who's 
not happy with the idea that even though a system password has expired 
the user can still login via ftp. As far as I can tell there's no way to 
say: If password is expired, don't let the person login. I'm running a 
redhat system, proftp and pam. I understand that unlike an ssh or telnet 
session , there is no mechanism for updating an expired passwords via ftp.

So I would like to be able to say: If password has expired , treat it 
like the account was locked out. This is on a stock RedHat 7.3 machine. 
I have made no adjustments to /etc/pam.d/ftp

Anyone have an idea? (Or a link) (I have googled "pam expire")

Thanks,
David





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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 03:12:56 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:12:56 -0500
Subject: Mar 22nd., NewTLUG meeting (repost)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503211703050.24912-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503211703050.24912-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa0503221912134c06e1@mail.gmail.com>

Argh. I just got this message now, 10:09p Tuesday, and I'm even in
town. I would have come had I known. I need to get me a calendar.

--

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:06:50 -0500 (EST), Herb Richter <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>         This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held
>         Tues Mar 22nd., at Seneca College.
> 
> ...please note that the room is different than our usual room.
>    more info below...
> 
> Date:           Tue, Mar 22nd.
> Time:           7 - 10pm
> 
> Presenter:      TBA
> 
> Topic:          Issues in Linux Today
>                 plus some NewTLUG adminstration discussion.
> 
> Location:       Rm 2171 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca @ York
>                 Building number 40 on the map:
>                 http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf
>                 The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the
>                 south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles.
> 
> Directions:     For detailed directions and info on public transit, please
>                 see:    http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~scs/seneca-directions.html
> 
> Parking:        Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8).
>                 Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking
>                 garage.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>         Herb Richter  <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>         Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario
>         http://PartsAndService.com
>         http://PartsAndService.ca
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 19:17:06 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:17:06 -0500
Subject: Help with fonts in XPDF and X in general
In-Reply-To: <20050323073357.GA9232-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050323073357.GA9232@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20050323191706.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 02:33:57AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Adobe's Acrobat reader is a glorified neon sign ad for commercial
> Adobe products, and a lot of space is used by useless menu bars.  So I
> want to use xpdf as my pdf file reader.  xfontsel claims that I have
> 6496 fonts available.  Yet xpdf doesn't display bold or italicized or
> anything other than plain text.  What do I have to do to make the fonts
> available?  Treat me as a newbie on this.

I thought most PDFs had fonts embedded, but I could be wrong.  Do you
have any postscript fonts installed?  It probably does NOT use X fonts
after all.

Lennart Sorensen
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From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 19:16:07 2005
From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:16:07 -0500
Subject: trying to understand why the Blackberry can't see
	a website
Message-ID: <s2417a2f.062@mail.humeimaging.com>

Bob!

My hunch is the BB proxy server simply doesn't accept URLs which can't provide a finite size. If the URL contents are too large, or unknown, it may reject it out of hand in the interest of preserving bandwidth.

But I may not know whereof I speak when it comes to the nuances of HTTP.

Cheers!

Gord Jeoffroy
I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc.
Phone: 416-921-7204 x225
Cell: 416-902-0920
Fax: 416-921-7386
Web: www.humeimaging.com



>>> fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org 03/22/05 08:27pm >>>
I have access to a Blackberry and have been trying its browser on a number of 
websites.     

The "Try Me" link at   http://www.io-anywhere.ca is one site where the 
Blackberry refuses to find the site and reports a "503" error,  yet every 
other browser I've tried finds it just fine.

At first I thought that the Blackberry was having trouble with html forms,  
but I tried one of my forms at  
http://www.icanprogram.com/31ux/linuxsurvey.html at it found it no problem.

I then tried wget on both URL's to see if I could detect a difference.   The 
only noticable difference is that when accessing the IOA site the wget 
reports an "unspecified" number of bytes whereas the iCanProgram site comes 
back with a number of bytes.

Anyone else have an idea what is happening here?

bob
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 20 17:12:06 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:12:06 -0500
Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503181422590.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net> <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503192230000.20016@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 19, 2005 22:31, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Adam Raymond wrote:
> > I signed up okay last night, so there must be a demand. I don't really
> > care if M$ is such a horrible company, or if they can be closely
> > related to the Borg from Star Treck. My motto is, any information I
> > can learn for free I will.
>
> Ah but what if the information is inaccurate or just downright wrong?

Knowing what the competition is saying about what you are selling is a good 
thing. It is even sweeter if the competition pays for you to find out:)
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 19:13:52 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:13:52 -0500
Subject: Did the list die today?
Message-ID: <20050322191352.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

Is the list dead or is everyone out enjoying the weather?

Hopefully it is the second option.

Lennart Sorensen
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 15:28:21 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:28:21 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050322230611.86344.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f9870c01050323072834801863@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:06:11 -0500 (EST), Michael L Yang
<lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone, 
>   
> Good day! 
>   
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc
> and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The
> wired connection is as below: 
>   
>   
> PC ------------ 
>                   \ 
>                   WRT54G router ---- Rogers Modem ------Internet 
>                   / 
> Laptop------- 
>   
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I
> switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not even
> ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network
> Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right
> direction. 

Hi Michael,

I'm certainly not an expert, but here's something to get you started.

When dealing with networking problems, it's best to start at the
bottom; I'm presuming that you aren't unplugging some cables and
plugging others in when you re-boot to Red Hat. OK?

Once we're over that hurdle, you should get familiar with the
'ifconfig' command. On my home machine, it shows this:

[tab at bert tab]$ /sbin/ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:50:88:F8:18:48  
          inet addr:192.168.5.4  Bcast:192.168.5.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe88::250:8bf8:fef8:1f48/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:2197224 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2337516 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:1095207556 (1044.4 Mb)  TX bytes:1049616572 (1000.9 Mb)
          Interrupt:20 Base address:0x4000 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:19441 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:19441 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:16962775 (16.1 Mb)  TX bytes:16962775 (16.1 Mb)

tun0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol  
          inet addr:10.128.0.42  P-t-P:10.128.0.41  Mask:255.255.255.255
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:107409 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:112850 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:10 
          RX bytes:53203061 (50.7 Mb)  TX bytes:13334850 (12.7 Mb)

So there are three devices, eth0 (my LAN card), lo (the loopback
device) and tun0 (my VPN connection back to work). You should probably
have the first two, and it's eth0 that's the one that we need to get
working.

If it's not there at all, you have problems with Red Hat not
recognizing your card.

If it's there but not running, you need to issue something like a
'service network restart' as root to get it going.

If it's there, and running, but 'ping' still doesn't work, I'm not
sure what the next step is.

Let us know what you find out.

Alex
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 12:33:05 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:33:05 -0500
Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting
Message-ID: <007e01c52fa4$76881920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

As has been previously noted, TLUG is to have a booth at the Linux World
Canada show April 19th and 20th. To plan for that we will have a meeting
this evening (March 23rd) at the "Duke of Kent" pub, 2315 Yonge Street (one
block North of Eglinton Ave) at 7:30 this evening.

If you will be there please e-mail me ASAP so I can tell the pub how many
people to expect.

Colin McGregor

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 00:30:59 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:30:59 -0500
Subject: Hello? Is anybody there? Hello?
In-Reply-To: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B-zSf3HPVPggFgk0lh67m1x+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>
Message-ID: <4240B8C3.2030602@rogers.com>

Jose A. Dias wrote:
> Hello out there... Is anybody there? Hello?
> 
> Boy, this is a pretty big echo...
> 
> Hmm... Nothing said for over 24 hours. It's a new record, or some server
> has been "upgraded" to exchange...
> 
> :-)
> 

Nobody here, but us penguins.  ;-)

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From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 02:28:57 2005
From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael L Yang)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:28:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050323022857.66197.qmail@web52010.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
 
Good day!
 
I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
 
 
PC ------------
                  \
                  WRT54G router ---- Rogers Cable Modem ------Internet
                  (192.168.1.1)
                  /
Laptop-------
 
Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right direction.
 
Thank you for your time,
 
Michael




---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 20:24:10 2005
From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:24:10 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
Message-ID: <200503231524.10709.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca>



----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform 
Technical Briefing Dinner (fwd)
Date: Tuesday 22 March 2005 09:44
From: Patrick <patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

Robert:
I think your statement "in the interests of fairness" says it all about the
Microsoft Canada invitation. I would like to attend. How does one of us go
about answering your forwarded invitation?
I'm a newbie user of SuSe Linux, am very happy with what I have on my desktop
and have had much help from tlug members. I have never felt comfortable with
Microsoft operating systems, from the original Windows 1.0 onward, and have
also felt that a very dangerous situation is created when one corporate
developer dominates the world's desktops.
But this guy obviously has been around a long time, in the Linux world and
 now in the Microsoft kingdom, and he therefore should be worth listening to
 and questioning. Whether any of us will leave with our opinions altered is
 another matter. Personally, I very much doubt it.
Patrick

-------------------------------------------------------
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 20:41:28 2005
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:41:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting
In-Reply-To: <007e01c52fa4$76881920$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <007e01c52fa4$76881920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.61.0503231540290.15416@otaku.freeshell.org>

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:

> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:33:05 -0500
> From: Colin McGregor <colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: Linux World Canada Planning meeting
> 
> As has been previously noted, TLUG is to have a booth at the Linux World
> Canada show April 19th and 20th. To plan for that we will have a meeting
> this evening (March 23rd) at the "Duke of Kent" pub, 2315 Yonge Street (one
> block North of Eglinton Ave) at 7:30 this evening.
>
> If you will be there please e-mail me ASAP so I can tell the pub how many
> people to expect.

      Count me in.

      (Did you get the mail I sent from cfajohnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org? There has
       been some weirdness recently.)

-- 

         Chris F.A. Johnson                             cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org
         =================================================================
         bq933-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org         http://members.rogers.com/c.f.a.johnson
         c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org                http://cfaj.freeshell.org

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 07:33:57 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:33:57 -0500
Subject: Help with fonts in XPDF and X in general
Message-ID: <20050323073357.GA9232@waltdnes.org>

  Adobe's Acrobat reader is a glorified neon sign ad for commercial
Adobe products, and a lot of space is used by useless menu bars.  So I
want to use xpdf as my pdf file reader.  xfontsel claims that I have
6496 fonts available.  Yet xpdf doesn't display bold or italicized or
anything other than plain text.  What do I have to do to make the fonts
available?  Treat me as a newbie on this.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 13:47:38 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:47:38 -0500
Subject: Hello? Is anybody there? Hello?
In-Reply-To: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B-zSf3HPVPggFgk0lh67m1x+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>
Message-ID: <20050323134738.GB23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Mar 21, 2005 at 08:22:11PM -0500, Jose A. Dias wrote:
> Hello out there... Is anybody there? Hello?
> 
> Boy, this is a pretty big echo...
> 
> Hmm... Nothing said for over 24 hours. It's a new record, or some server
> has been "upgraded" to exchange...

I tried to send a message to the list yesterday and haven't seen it yet.
Probably yet another mail server screwup on ss.org.  It wouldn't be the
first time if I remember correctly.

At least it seems to work now.

Lennart Sorensen
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 13:49:21 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:49:21 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050322230611.86344.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050323134921.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 06:06:11PM -0500, Michael L Yang wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>  
> Good day!
>  
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
>  
>  
> PC ------------
>                   \
>                   WRT54G router ---- Rogers Modem ------Internet
>                   /
> Laptop-------
>  
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could point me to the right direction.
>  
> Thank you for your time,

What does this give you:
ifconfig -a
route -n
cat /etc/sysconfig/<whatever looks like eth0 config file>

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 22 23:13:07 2005
From: pwa.linux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (PW Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:13:07 -0500
Subject: Hello? Is anybody there? Hello?
In-Reply-To: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B-zSf3HPVPggFgk0lh67m1x+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>
Message-ID: <4240A683.5080303@gmail.com>

well, I'm here, just don't have much to say at the moment
anyone else?
-pw

Jose A. Dias wrote:

>Hello out there... Is anybody there? Hello?
>
>Boy, this is a pretty big echo...
>
>Hmm... Nothing said for over 24 hours. It's a new record, or some server
>has been "upgraded" to exchange...
>
>:-)
>
>  
>

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From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 05:40:14 2005
From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:40:14 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050322230611.86344.qmail-fqO4UCkTBO2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050322230611.86344.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b7a3fe4a05032221403a325033@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael.

You have exactly the same set up as I do; same router and everything.

I'm assuming you're using Fedora Core when you talk about Red Hat.

If you configure networking using Red Hat's tools
(system-config-network or netconfig), you still have to "enable" the
network.  The tools only modify the configuration files.

To reinitialize your network card, use the "ifup" and "ifdown"
commands, like this:

# ifdown eth0
# ifup eth0

Or you can issue "service network restart" to restart all your network config.

Hope this helps.

pm
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 23:53:05 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:53:05 -0500
Subject: Solved: Help with fonts in XPDF and X in general
In-Reply-To: <20050323191706.GD23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050323073357.GA9232@waltdnes.org> <20050323191706.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050323235305.GA11104@waltdnes.org>

  Under the sign of the Duhhhhhhhh...

  It works like this...

  - if you do *NOT* have ~/.xpdfrc, the file /etc/xpdfrc does the font
    setups and things work OK

  - if you *DO* have ~/.xpdfrc, then /etc/xpdfrc is ignored by default

  - To get xpdf to come up the way I wanted, I recently created a 1-line
    ~/.xpdfrc with the line
initialZoom page

  - if I want my own options *PLUS* the font-setups specified in
    /etc/xpdfrc, I need a 2-line ~/.xpdfrc, like so...
initialZoom page
include /etc/xpdfrc

  xpdf is functional once again.  Sorry to bother everybody.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 02:16:55 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:16:55 -0500
Subject: list really quiet?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503221559180.5194-100000-lkn/ztfFZq2a4o8cOB7kKB2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503221559180.5194-100000@iran.unitycode.org>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f050323181672a097c9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:01:02 -0500 (EST), Simon P. Ditner
<simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Did something happen to the list, or have I just magically become
> unsubscribed? I haven't seen a message in 3 days...

Methinks something was bottlenecked; I just got "updates with a vengeance"...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 03:06:41 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:06:41 -0500
Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting
Message-ID: <002a01c5301e$80df5800$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

Our first Linux World Canada meeting occurred earlier this evening, and we
came up with the following task list:

- Memberships - Everyone who plans to attend the show is responsible for
getting their own membership. If all you want to do is see the show floor
and help in the booth, then the membership is free - see
http://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/
- Handouts - A one page summary of what TLUG/NewTLUG is about - Chris
Johnson
- Two+ PCs for the booth - Colin McGregor
- Website update - Note on the TLUG website we will be at the show - Drew
Sullivan
- Custom Knoppix - An interactive look at TLUG - Colin McGregor
- Booth - Make sure booth can support us - Colin McGregor
    - Want 2 x tables, 2 x chairs
    - Power supply to support 2+ PCs
    - Be nice to have internet connection
- Collection of old presentations for use on Knoppix disk - Seneca
Cunningham
- Freebee stuff
    - Unbuntu Linux - 1000 copies? - Colin McGregor
- TLUG Banner - Bill Thanis
- TLUG Shirts for booth staff to wear at the show - Pavel Zaitsev
- Laminating machine for TLUG badges - Seneca Cunningham, Colin McGregor
- Scheduling
     - Set-up and tear down times - Colin McGregor
     - Volunteers at the show - William Park

Plan will be to have the next Linux World Canada planning meeting next
Thursday at 7:30 in the Duke of Kent pub 2315 Yonge Street (1 block north of
Eglinton Ave.).

If anybody can think of other tasks that we should look at, and/or if you
would like take on one (or more) of the above tasks, please e-mail me.

Colin McGregor

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 03:34:15 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:34:15 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050323022857.66197.qmail-AjDzMbKYgBCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050323022857.66197.qmail@web52010.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050324033415.GA9188@waltdnes.org>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:28:57PM -0500, Michael L Yang wrote
> Hello everyone,
>  
> Good day!
>  
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network
> (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat
> 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
>  
>  
> PC ------------
>                   \
>                   WRT54G router ---- Rogers Cable Modem ------Internet
>                   (192.168.1.1)
>                   /
> Laptop-------
>  
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But
> when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at
> all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on
> dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could
> point me to the right direction.

  Two starting points...
  1) In linux, as root, execute the command...

route -n

What result do you get?

  2) Reboot the PC to Windows, connect to network, and check what your
network settings show (IP address, gateway, netmask, etc).  Write them
down, and try to duplicate them in linux.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 23 23:17:08 2005
From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:17:08
Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s)
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca>

Do you know shops which do scanning ?

I want to scan 8 1/2 " x 11 " pages to create computer-readable files.

Sometimes I want them scanned to graphical images.

Sometimes I want them scanned to O.C.R. (optical character recognition),
creating editable files in Microsoft Word, or in Microsoft Notepad.

If you know of either type of shop,
or if you are willing to occasionally provide this service,
please let me know.


Jim McIntosh   416-292-8126   <jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>


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From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 05:13:57 2005
From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:13:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello all,
 
Thank you very much to you all for your quick responses. I still have problems with the Internet connection. I updated the linux version to Mandrake 10.1 today, problem still exists. Below are the status after I manualy assign eth0 with 192.168.1.100. During startup, i selected dhcp and eth0 can not be brought up. The NIC card is a an old 3Com 509B ISAPNP card. would this be the cause of the problem? I did a few google search and it reports the card is supported. I am a little confused.
 
[root at localhost michael]# ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:20:AF:CC:45:50
          inet addr:192.168.1.100  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::220:afff:fecc:4550/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:1 errors:16 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:1
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:23388 (22.8 Kb)
          Interrupt:5 Base address:0x220
 
lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)  TX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)
 
[root at localhost michael]# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
[root at localhost michael]#
[root at localhost michael]# ping 192.168.1.1
PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
>From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
>From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
 
--- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, +2 errors, 100% packet loss, time 2999ms
, pipe 2
[root at localhost michael]#

I appreciate all your kind help, should i read something more in-depth. XP connected to the router in no effort, i was expecting similar exprience with Linux. Maybe the way they deal wiht the connections are different. Any recommended reading?
 
All the best,
 
Michael

Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:28:57PM -0500, Michael L Yang wrote
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Good day!
> 
> I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network
> (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat
> 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
> 
> 
> PC ------------
> \
> WRT54G router ---- Rogers Cable Modem ------Internet
> (192.168.1.1)
> /
> Laptop-------
> 
> Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But
> when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at
> all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on
> dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could
> point me to the right direction.

Two starting points...
1) In linux, as root, execute the command...

route -n

What result do you get?

2) Reboot the PC to Windows, connect to network, and check what your
network settings show (IP address, gateway, netmask, etc). Write them
down, and try to duplicate them in linux.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml



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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 05:34:29 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:34:29 -0500
Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP01224068CA3800AB8B1D02B2400@cez.ice>

How occasionally? My basement has a scanner and O.C.R software(s)
(Clara, kooka, xsane, along with a host of MS compatible *stuff*)...
Does that constitute a shop?

On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 23:17 +0000, James McIntosh wrote:
> Do you know shops which do scanning ?
> 
> I want to scan 8 1/2 " x 11 " pages to create computer-readable files.
> 
> Sometimes I want them scanned to graphical images.
> 
> Sometimes I want them scanned to O.C.R. (optical character recognition),
> creating editable files in Microsoft Word, or in Microsoft Notepad.
> 
> If you know of either type of shop,
> or if you are willing to occasionally provide this service,
> please let me know.
> 
> 
> Jim McIntosh   416-292-8126   <jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 07:55:40 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:55:40 +0200 (IST)
Subject: trying to understand why the Blackberry can't see a
 website
In-Reply-To: <20050323012400.8118C5F0D-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050323012400.8118C5F0D@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503240954380.25880@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, bob wrote:

> I have access to a Blackberry and have been trying its browser on a number of
> websites.
>
> The "Try Me" link at   http://www.io-anywhere.ca is one site where the
> Blackberry refuses to find the site and reports a "503" error,  yet every
> other browser I've tried finds it just fine.
>
> At first I thought that the Blackberry was having trouble with html forms,
> but I tried one of my forms at
> http://www.icanprogram.com/31ux/linuxsurvey.html at it found it no problem.
>
> I then tried wget on both URL's to see if I could detect a difference.   The
> only noticable difference is that when accessing the IOA site the wget
> reports an "unspecified" number of bytes whereas the iCanProgram site comes
> back with a number of bytes.
>
> Anyone else have an idea what is happening here?

D/l the page from www-io-anywhere.ca and serve it from your server. It 
will then have a correct Content-Length: field. Point your bb browser at 
this page. If it works then it may have been that.

Peter
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From alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 06:15:43 2005
From: alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:45:43 +0530
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G 
	router
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba>

Your routing table has a small error. Run the following 2 commands:

$ route del 192.168.1.0
$ route add 192.168.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1

Regards,
Akshay

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael Yang 
  To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
  Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router


  Hello all,

  Thank you very much to you all for your quick responses. I still have problems with the Internet connection. I updated the linux version to Mandrake 10.1 today, problem still exists. Below are the status after I manualy assign eth0 with 192.168.1.100. During startup, i selected dhcp and eth0 can not be brought up. The NIC card is a an old 3Com 509B ISAPNP card. would this be the cause of the problem? I did a few google search and it reports the card is supported. I am a little confused.

  [root at localhost michael]# ifconfig
  eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:20:AF:CC:45:50
            inet addr:192.168.1.100  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
            inet6 addr: fe80::220:afff:fecc:4550/64 Scope:Link
            UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
            RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
            TX packets:1 errors:16 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:1
            collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
            RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:23388 (22.8 Kb)
            Interrupt:5 Base address:0x220

  lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
            inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
            inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
            UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
            RX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
            TX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
            collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
            RX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)  TX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)

  [root at localhost michael]# route -n
  Kernel IP routing table
  Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
  192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
  0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
  [root at localhost michael]#
  [root at localhost michael]# ping 192.168.1.1
  PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
  From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
  From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable

  --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics ---
  4 packets transmitted, 0 received, +2 errors, 100% packet loss, time 2999ms
  , pipe 2
  [root at localhost michael]#

  I appreciate all your kind help, should i read something more in-depth. XP connected to the router in no effort, i was expecting similar exprience with Linux. Maybe the way they deal wiht the connections are different. Any recommended reading?

  All the best,

  Michael

  Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> wrote:
    On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:28:57PM -0500, Michael L Yang wrote
    > Hello everyone,
    > 
    > Good day!
    > 
    > I have just purchased a Linksys WRT54G router for my home network
    > (one pc and one windows laptop). The pc has both WinXP and Redhat
    > 7.3 on it. The wired connection is as below:
    > 
    > 
    > PC ------------
    > \
    > WRT54G router ---- Rogers Cable Modem ------Internet
    > (192.168.1.1)
    > /
    > Laptop-------
    > 
    > Under windows XP, both computers can access internet no problem. But
    > when I switch to RH on the PC, the networking is not working at
    > all. I can not even ping the router (192.168.1.1). I have turned on
    > dhcp via 'Network Configuration'. I wonder whether some one could
    > point me to the right direction.

    Two starting points...
    1) In linux, as root, execute the command...

    route -n

    What result do you get?

    2) Reboot the PC to Windows, connect to network, and check what your
    network settings show (IP address, gateway, netmask, etc). Write them
    down, and try to duplicate them in linux.

    -- 
    Walter Dnes 
    An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
    eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
    and has a lower TCO, than linux.
    --
    The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
    TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
    How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml





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From alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 06:05:23 2005
From: alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:35:23 +0530
Subject: trying to understand why the Blackberry can't see a 
	website
References: <20050323012400.8118C5F0D@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <004601c53038$37910580$210d940a@Lamba>

I then tried wget on both URL's to see if I could detect a difference.   The
only noticable difference is that when accessing the IOA site the wget
reports an "unspecified" number of bytes whereas the iCanProgram site comes
back with a number of bytes.

Anyone else have an idea what is happening here?

bob
___________________________________________________________________________________

Is MDS enabled on your BES (Blackberry server)?

Regards,
Akshay




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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 12:34:44 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:34:44 -0500
Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <4242B3E4.7000702@rogers.com>

James McIntosh wrote:
> Do you know shops which do scanning ?
> 
> I want to scan 8 1/2 " x 11 " pages to create computer-readable files.
> 
> Sometimes I want them scanned to graphical images.
> 
> Sometimes I want them scanned to O.C.R. (optical character recognition),
> creating editable files in Microsoft Word, or in Microsoft Notepad.
> 
> If you know of either type of shop,
> or if you are willing to occasionally provide this service,
> please let me know.

Why not get a scanner and do it yourself?  All the required software is 
available in Linux.
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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 14:39:09 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:39:09 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba>
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba>
Message-ID: <20050324143909.GA4981@free>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 11:45:43AM +0530, Akshay Lamba wrote:
> Your routing table has a small error. Run the following 2 commands:
> 
> $ route del 192.168.1.0
> $ route add 192.168.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1
> 
> Regards,
> Akshay
>
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Michael Yang 
> [snip]
>   [root at localhost michael]# ifconfig
>   eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:20:AF:CC:45:50
>             inet addr:192.168.1.100  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
> [snip]
 
>   [root at localhost michael]# route -n
>   Kernel IP routing table
>   Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
>   192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
>   0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0

Hi Akshay (And Michael)

Perhaps I'm confused, but shouldn't the second command be:

$ route add 192.168.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1
       (was 192.168.0.0)

Confusingly yours,
Allen
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 15:42:22 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:42:22 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
Message-ID: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com>

I have recently done a virgin install of Mandrake 10.1 and I am 
struggling to get MySQL going.

I think my problem is in the GRANTS.

I get errors saying I can't connect @localhost (or from any machine) and 
when I try to add passwords to user mysql, I get an error saying that 
there is no record.

I tried stopping the server, and starting without it reading the grants, 
but I can't create an account.

I am floundering, and the documentation is very confusing to me.

I expect an expert could fix this in a couple of minutes.

Would anyone be available for a (hopefully short) time this weekend, and 
be willing to help? I have SSH working so this can be done remotely.

Many thanks!

Stephen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:09:57 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:09:57 -0500
Subject: Scanning paper to computer file(s)
In-Reply-To: <4242B3E4.7000702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20050323231708.5a375816@mail.look.ca> <4242B3E4.7000702@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050324160957.GE23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 07:34:44AM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> Why not get a scanner and do it yourself?  All the required software is 
> available in Linux.

If you buy a scanner supported fully by sane.  Many are not.  I used to
have great luck with Epson scanners, but unfortunately they have
switched to using the snapscan chips instead of their own, so driver
development has become a lot slower, although still happening.  Epson
was great at releasing programing specs for their own designs.  It seems
to be much slower when the specs are someone elses.

Lennart Sorensen
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:12:35 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:12:35 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242DFDE.7000809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Stephen wrote:
| I have recently done a virgin install of Mandrake 10.1 and I am
| struggling to get MySQL going.
|
| I think my problem is in the GRANTS.
|
| I get errors saying I can't connect @localhost (or from any machine) and
| when I try to add passwords to user mysql, I get an error saying that
| there is no record.

MySQL makes a distinction between user@'%' and user@'localhost'.
user@'%' applies _only_ to remote users, and user@'localhost' applies
only to local users. Local user DO NOT fall under the category of "all
users" as implied by the '%' hostname.

Therefore, make sure you have a version of your user@'localhost' if you
want to connect from this machine.

|
| I tried stopping the server, and starting without it reading the grants,
| but I can't create an account.

Try this:
# killall mysqld

## Start the server without reading grant tables
# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
## Or perhaps replace 'mysqld_safe' with 'mysqld' if that doesn't work

## Get root access to the server
# mysql -u root

## You can now change users (through the mysql client):
GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY
'some_root_password';
quit


## Restart the server with grant tables
# killall mysqld

## Use whatever distribution-specific method for starting mysqld
## i.e.
# /etc/init.d/mysql start
## or if all else fails
# mysqld_safe &

## Now connect as root
# mysql -u root -p
## Enter your password at the prompt

You can now use the GRANT and REVOKE commands to add/remove/change users
and permissions. Remember, you can also manipulate the 'user', 'db',
'tables_priv', 'columns_priv', etc. tables in the the 'mysql' database
to change/add users and permissions. Just remember to do a
'FLUSH PRIVILEGES' command after.

|
| I am floundering, and the documentation is very confusing to me.

Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.

|
| I expect an expert could fix this in a couple of minutes.
|
| Would anyone be available for a (hopefully short) time this weekend, and
| be willing to help? I have SSH working so this can be done remotely.

I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
others can learn from the solution.

I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCQubxRreNkzrRRLQRAl26AJ4gxAXw7Bt4v1OKED7/9IpEQhHT5wCgkZk2
xFDyJM+0FdtYasg1HwyYsr0=
=7Tas
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:14:09 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:14:09 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050324051357.17162.qmail-1NMqxxHm0c6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050324161409.GF23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:13:57PM -0800, Michael Yang wrote:
> Hello all,
>  
> Thank you very much to you all for your quick responses. I still have problems with the Internet connection. I updated the linux version to Mandrake 10.1 today, problem still exists. Below are the status after I manualy assign eth0 with 192.168.1.100. During startup, i selected dhcp and eth0 can not be brought up. The NIC card is a an old 3Com 509B ISAPNP card. would this be the cause of the problem? I did a few google search and it reports the card is supported. I am a little confused.
>  
> [root at localhost michael]# ifconfig
> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:20:AF:CC:45:50
>           inet addr:192.168.1.100  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
>           inet6 addr: fe80::220:afff:fecc:4550/64 Scope:Link
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:1 errors:16 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:1
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
>           RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:23388 (22.8 Kb)
>           Interrupt:5 Base address:0x220
>  
> lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
>           inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
>           inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
>           UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
>           RX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:3063 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
>           RX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)  TX bytes:240954 (235.3 Kb)
>  
> [root at localhost michael]# route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> 192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
> 0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
> [root at localhost michael]#
> [root at localhost michael]# ping 192.168.1.1
> PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
> >From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
> >From 192.168.1.100 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
>  
> --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 0 received, +2 errors, 100% packet loss, time 2999ms
> , pipe 2
> [root at localhost michael]#
> 
> I appreciate all your kind help, should i read something more in-depth. XP connected to the router in no effort, i was expecting similar exprience with Linux. Maybe the way they deal wiht the connections are different. Any recommended reading?

Does your distribution ship with a firewall and if so is it enabled by
default?

iptables -L should show very little if there is no firewall, and
probably quite a bit if there is one.

The 3c509b is in my experience a great card assuming PCI isn't an
option, but works much better if you run the 3c50x setup program (either
the linux version or the dos version) and configure it for some non
conflicting io and irq and avoid the whole pnp mess.  Maybe your system
works better but mine sure didn't.  Of course 'PnP OS Installed' setting
in bios MUST be OFF on any system not just running an MS OS since it
effectively disables the BIOS PnP initialization for anything other than
diskcontrollers and soundcards.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:15:07 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:15:07 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba>
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba>
Message-ID: <20050324161507.GG23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 11:45:43AM +0530, Akshay Lamba wrote:
> Your routing table has a small error. Run the following 2 commands:
> 
> $ route del 192.168.1.0
> $ route add 192.168.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1

When his network is 192.168.1.x he certainly should not make such a
change.  Doing so would be an error.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:16:44 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:16:44 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050324143909.GA4981@free>
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba> <20050324143909.GA4981@free>
Message-ID: <20050324161643.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 09:39:09AM -0500, Allen Taylor wrote:
> Perhaps I'm confused, but shouldn't the second command be:
> 
> $ route add 192.168.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1
>        (was 192.168.0.0)

That too would be wrong.  You have a route for the local subnet
(192.168.1.0/24 in this case) and you have a default route (0.0.0.0)
which sets the gateway address for going anywhere else.  Traffic for the
local subnet should never be routed through a gateway (since the gateway
is for getting to subnets other than the local ones).

Lennart Sorensen
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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 16:31:16 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:31:16 -0500
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: <20050324161643.GH23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> <005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba> <20050324143909.GA4981@free> <20050324161643.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324163116.GA5160@free>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 11:16:44AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 09:39:09AM -0500, Allen Taylor wrote:
> > Perhaps I'm confused, but shouldn't the second command be:
> > 
> > $ route add 192.168.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.1
> >        (was 192.168.0.0)
> 
> That too would be wrong.  You have a route for the local subnet
> (192.168.1.0/24 in this case) and you have a default route (0.0.0.0)
> which sets the gateway address for going anywhere else.  Traffic for the
> local subnet should never be routed through a gateway (since the gateway
> is for getting to subnets other than the local ones).
> 
> Lennart Sorensen

OOPS! You are correct. I didn't look a the whole picture - just noticed
the typo in the sub-net address. 

I'll go back to sleep now.

Allen
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:11:45 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:11:45 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242E6F3.7040303-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com>

Anton Markov wrote:

> Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
> MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.
>
> I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
> others can learn from the solution.
>
> I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
> can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
> steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
> further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.

Hi Anton

Thank you for your reply! Perhaps you could write a HOWTO for new users :)

I followed what suggested, and this is what resulted:

========
[root at pw bin]# killall mysqld
[root at pw bin]# 050324 12:03:10  mysqld ended

[root at pw bin]# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
[1] 5873
[root at pw bin]# Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql

[root at pw bin]# mysql -u root
Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
Your MySQL connection id is 1 to server version: 4.0.20

Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.

mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
ERROR 1047: Unknown command
mysql>
=======

The unknown command error has me very confused.

And suggestions?

Thanks!
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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:13:26 2005
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:13:26 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
Message-ID: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>

hey folks,

Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
cable?  This would look something like this:


----		   ___________			__________
|hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
-----		  ------------			---------     
		      |				  |
		      |				  |
		      |				  |
		 Computer		       Computer	       

I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.

thanks,

matt


--------------------------
 .''`.       Matt Price 
: :'  :      Debian User
`. `'` 	     & hemi-geek
  `-     
-------------------------- 
if you're an evil spambot, these addresses are for you:  aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org, zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:26:50 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:26:50 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171326.GA16710-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4242F85A.2080101@alteeve.com>

Matt Price wrote:
> hey folks,
> 
> Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable?  This would look something like this:
> 
> 
> ----		   ___________			__________
> |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> -----		  ------------			---------     
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> 
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> matt

   Well, strictly, no you can't. Realistically though, if you are in a 
pinch, you can run two runs through one RJ45 cable but you will probably 
have trouble with cross talk... Hard to say, I've never done it. If you 
want to try though, here's the idea:

   Normally only pins 1, 2, 3 and 6 are used (one pair on 1/2, the other 
pair on 3/6). You can try splicing the cable back a few centimeters and 
run the four other wires to pins 1, 2, 3 and 6 of a seconds cap. So say 
you normally use the green pair on 1/2 and the orange pair on 3/6, run 
the blue pair to 1/2 on the second cap and the brown pair to 3/6 on that 
second cap.

   Now run the cable to the far computer but give yourself a little 
slack where you want to tap into the closer computer. carefully splice 
the green and orange pair just enough to reach the teeth of the female 
jack. Leave the pairs twisted until just before the teeth... your 
connection is going to be degraded enough without helping it :p. Don't 
splice the blue and brown wires though, let them pass through to the far 
end and punch them in where you normally would have punched in the 
green/orange pair.

   Again, use this at your own risk... I know theoretically it will work 
but I wouldn't recommend it unless the second run really would cause 
that much trouble. If you do try it though, it will look something like 
this:

                   [ Computer 1 ]      [ Computer 2 ]
                         |                   |
[ Hub ] =>--------------+-------------------/
         ^- [ Two caps ]

HTH

Madison
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:17:45 2005
From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:17:45 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
Message-ID: <s242aff0.047@mail.humeimaging.com>

Matt!

What you've got there is known as a "linear bus" topology.

Easy to set up; nasty to maintain. The biggest drawback is that if a problem develops with the bus or the hub it's plugged into, the entire network goes down. There's also a heck of a bandwidth hit having the entire network's traffic on one cable.

It's not wrong; it's just not necessarily the best solution.

Cheers!

Gord Jeoffroy
I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc.
Phone: 416-921-7204 x225
Cell: 416-902-0920
Fax: 416-921-7386
Web: www.humeimaging.com



>>> matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org 03/24/05 12:13pm >>>
hey folks,

Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
cable?  This would look something like this:


----		   ___________			__________
|hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
-----		  ------------			---------     
		      |				  |
		      |				  |
		      |				  |
		 Computer		       Computer	       

I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.

thanks,

matt


--------------------------
 .''`.       Matt Price 
: :'  :      Debian User
`. `'` 	     & hemi-geek
  `-     
-------------------------- 
if you're an evil spambot, these addresses are for you:  aardvark at derailleur.org, zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org 
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:46:17 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:46:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171326.GA16710-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Matt Price wrote:
> ...Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable? ...
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.

Alas, at the wire level, 10BaseT -- the modern twisted-pair/RJ45 flavor of
Ethernet -- is strictly point-to-point, not party-line.  The signaling
scheme assumes that that there is a hub on one end and one (1) computer on
the other.  There's no provision, none at all, for sharing access to the
wire between two computers.  For example, when the line is idle, each end
regularly emits "link test" pulses to continuously verify that the wiring
hasn't gone bad, and expects to receive such pulses from the other end...
so which of the two computers would emit them?  For another, each end
"terminates" each wire pair properly to avoid signal reflections, and a
third termination in the middle will just make a horrible mess. 

All the provisions for networking an arbitrary number of computers
together are in the hub, not in the wiring. 

The above also applies, even more strongly, to the higher-speed versions
like 100BaseT and beyond.

(The protocols *are* designed to be symmetrical, so the computer end and 
the hub end are just mirror images of each other, and a simple crossover
cable can give you a computer-to-computer connection.  But that's still
strictly point-to-point, one device on each end of the cable and none in
the middle.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:50:11 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:50:11 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242F4D1.5090206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4242FDD3.4050201@truxtar.com>

Stephen wrote:
> Anton Markov wrote:
> 
>> Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
>> MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.
>>
>> I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
>> others can learn from the solution.
>>
>> I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
>> can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
>> steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
>> further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.
> 
> 
> Hi Anton
> 
> Thank you for your reply! Perhaps you could write a HOWTO for new users :)
> 
> I followed what suggested, and this is what resulted:
> 
> ========
> [root at pw bin]# killall mysqld
> [root at pw bin]# 050324 12:03:10  mysqld ended
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
> [1] 5873
> [root at pw bin]# Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysql -u root
> Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
> Your MySQL connection id is 1 to server version: 4.0.20
> 
> Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.
> 
> mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
> ERROR 1047: Unknown command
> mysql>
> =======
> 
> The unknown command error has me very confused.
> 
> And suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!

That is the weirdest thing I have ever seen; I just tried the exact 
command and it works. I am not sure what to do at this point.

Try typing 'status' at the mysql> prompt, and see what it tells you.

Try running the command 'SELECT * FROM mysql.user;'

And tell us what the results are. This really is a most weird error.

Also, can you post your $HOME/my.cnf and /etc/my.cnf if they exist (edit 
out any sensitive info they may contain).

Try re-installing the mysql client and mysqld server (probably one RPM 
package if you installed from RPM.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:53:25 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:53:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <4242F85A.2080101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242F85A.2080101@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324124635.9054J-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Madison Kelly wrote:
>    Well, strictly, no you can't. Realistically though, if you are in a 
> pinch, you can run two runs through one RJ45 cable but you will probably 
> have trouble with cross talk...

Good point, I'd forgotten that.  At the original Ethernet speed of
10Mbit/s, using wires 1+2/3+6 for one line and 4+5/7+8 for the other
actually works quite nicely -- I know people who run that way in
production.  No, there's no crosstalk problem, not at 10Mbit/s anyway.

At 100Mbit/s I would expect trouble.  Although if distances are short and
signals strong, you can get away with many things that wouldn't work in
the worst case. 

This doesn't get away from the inherently point-to-point nature of the
wiring, mind you -- it just exploits the fact that the standard cable
has twice as many wires as it needs and so can hold two connections.
It doesn't generalize to three or more.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:57:00 2005
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:57:00 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171326.GA16710-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324175700.GA22609@utoronto.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> hey folks,
> 
> Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable?  This would look something like this:
> 
> 
> |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> 
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> matt

man, you guys are fast.

but so far I count 3 quite different explanations.  Any comments on
who's right?

Thanks again!
matt

-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot:
zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org
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From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:58:21 2005
From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:58:21 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242F4D1.5090206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com>
	 <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1111687101.1433.7.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com>

Hey,


> mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
> ERROR 1047: Unknown command
> mysql>
> =======

That is strange, I tried your command on my machine and it worked fine.
What version of mysql are you using?  Maybe the command is subtly
different for your version?


Later




mOn Thu, 2005-03-24 at 12:11 -0500, Stephen wrote:
> Anton Markov wrote:
> 
> > Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
> > MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.
> >
> > I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
> > others can learn from the solution.
> >
> > I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
> > can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
> > steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
> > further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.
> 
> Hi Anton
> 
> Thank you for your reply! Perhaps you could write a HOWTO for new users :)
> 
> I followed what suggested, and this is what resulted:
> 
> ========
> [root at pw bin]# killall mysqld
> [root at pw bin]# 050324 12:03:10  mysqld ended
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
> [1] 5873
> [root at pw bin]# Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysql -u root
> Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
> Your MySQL connection id is 1 to server version: 4.0.20
> 
> Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.
> 
> mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
> ERROR 1047: Unknown command
> mysql>
> =======
> 
> The unknown command error has me very confused.
> 
> And suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
-- 
Devin Whalen
Programmer
Synaptic Vision Inc
Phone-(416) 539-0801
Fax- (416) 539-8280
1179A King St. West
Toronto, Ontario
Suite 309 M6K 3C5
Home-(416) 653-3982


Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust
www.getfirefox.com

   .-.
   /v\    L   I   N   U   X
  // \\  
 /(   )\
  ^^-^^   

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From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:00:16 2005
From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:00:16 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242F4D1.5090206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com>
	 <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1111687216.1433.8.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com>

Sorry, I re-read you email and saw that your version number is the same
as mine.  Sorry, should have read more carefully :(.

On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 12:11 -0500, Stephen wrote:
> Anton Markov wrote:
> 
> > Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
> > MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.
> >
> > I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
> > others can learn from the solution.
> >
> > I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
> > can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
> > steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
> > further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.
> 
> Hi Anton
> 
> Thank you for your reply! Perhaps you could write a HOWTO for new users :)
> 
> I followed what suggested, and this is what resulted:
> 
> ========
> [root at pw bin]# killall mysqld
> [root at pw bin]# 050324 12:03:10  mysqld ended
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
> [1] 5873
> [root at pw bin]# Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
> 
> [root at pw bin]# mysql -u root
> Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
> Your MySQL connection id is 1 to server version: 4.0.20
> 
> Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.
> 
> mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
> ERROR 1047: Unknown command
> mysql>
> =======
> 
> The unknown command error has me very confused.
> 
> And suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
-- 
Devin Whalen
Programmer
Synaptic Vision Inc
Phone-(416) 539-0801
Fax- (416) 539-8280
1179A King St. West
Toronto, Ontario
Suite 309 M6K 3C5
Home-(416) 653-3982


Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust
www.getfirefox.com

   .-.
   /v\    L   I   N   U   X
  // \\  
 /(   )\
  ^^-^^   

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From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:00:45 2005
From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:00:45 +0000 GMT
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
Message-ID: <1060395669-1111687385-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-24991-@engine75>

Matt!

Heh! You can disregard my comments. It never even dawned on me you were splicing directly into the bus. I ?saw? minihubs at each workstation. 

Now, if this six foot rabbit would just go away....

Cheers!

--Gord


-----Original Message-----
From: "matt.price at utoronto.ca" <tlug at ss.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:57:00 
To:<gjeoffroy at rogers.blackberry.net>, <tlug at ss.org>, <matt.price at utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> hey folks,
> 
> Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable?  This would look something like this:
> 
> 
> |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> 
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> matt

man, you guys are fast.

but so far I count 3 quite different explanations.  Any comments on
who's right?

Thanks again!
matt

-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot:
zeus at derailleur.org aardvark at derailleur.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:02:40 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:02:40 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050324180240.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:46:17PM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> Alas, at the wire level, 10BaseT -- the modern twisted-pair/RJ45 flavor of
> Ethernet -- is strictly point-to-point, not party-line.  The signaling
> scheme assumes that that there is a hub on one end and one (1) computer on
> the other.  There's no provision, none at all, for sharing access to the
> wire between two computers.  For example, when the line is idle, each end
> regularly emits "link test" pulses to continuously verify that the wiring
> hasn't gone bad, and expects to receive such pulses from the other end...
> so which of the two computers would emit them?  For another, each end
> "terminates" each wire pair properly to avoid signal reflections, and a
> third termination in the middle will just make a horrible mess. 

Yeah I remember 10base2 thinwire ethernet.  What a pain.

> All the provisions for networking an arbitrary number of computers
> together are in the hub, not in the wiring. 
> 
> The above also applies, even more strongly, to the higher-speed versions
> like 100BaseT and beyond.
> 
> (The protocols *are* designed to be symmetrical, so the computer end and 
> the hub end are just mirror images of each other, and a simple crossover
> cable can give you a computer-to-computer connection.  But that's still
> strictly point-to-point, one device on each end of the cable and none in
> the middle.)

Just remember, don't use a cross over cable for gigabit.  it won't work
and will drop you to 100TX instead.  Gigabit is bidirectional on 4 pairs
and doesn't need crossover ever.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:04:34 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:04:34 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324175700.GA22609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324175700.GA22609@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324180434.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:57:00PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> > hey folks,
> > 
> > Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> > lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> > RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> > many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> > room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> > the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> > cable?  This would look something like this:
> > 
> > 
> > |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> > 
> > I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> > instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> > least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > 
> > matt
> 
> man, you guys are fast.
> 
> but so far I count 3 quite different explanations.  Any comments on
> who's right?

I think the summary is:
You could run two connections on the single wire by splitting it at the
hub and at the first computer, but that you are likely to have a bad
link most of the time due to cross talk noise so it's a bad idea.  The
thing about a bus is completely wrong for twisted pair ethernet.

I wouldn't recomend trying to save on the wire.

Lennart Sorensen
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:05:03 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:05:03 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324175700.GA22609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324175700.GA22609@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324180503.GA10757@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:57:00PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> > |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		 Computer		       Computer	       
...
> man, you guys are fast.
> 
> but so far I count 3 quite different explanations.  Any comments on
> who's right?

All 3 said, "No, you can't." :-)  You can do the above with 10base2
(coaxial), but not with 10/100baseT (twisted-pair).

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:08:07 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:08:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <s242aff0.047-rctWx2HDGN+TdA7hfTWfD1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <s242aff0.047@mail.humeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324125447.9054K-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Gord Jeoffroy wrote:
> What you've got there is known as a "linear bus" topology...
> It's not wrong; it's just not necessarily the best solution.

Uh, no, with twisted-pair wiring it *IS* wrong.

The old coaxial-cable Ethernets were linear buses, yes.  But modern
twisted-pair Ethernet is *different*.  It's not just a translation of the
coaxial-cable Ethernet onto a different wiring type; the signaling scheme
is drastically altered, and fundamentally depends on the wiring *not*
being a "party line".  Twisted-pair Ethernet is necessarily a "star" 
topology, where wires run only from computer to hub, with all the
shared-networking stuff done in the hubs.  This is an explicit assumption
of the design, not just the way most people happen to do their wiring.
Wiring it as a linear bus won't work. 

(Yes, it's possible to build a twisted-pair linear-bus network, with
suitable electronics, but that's not the approach that was chosen for
Ethernet.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:18:14 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:18:14 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242FDD3.4050201-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com> <4242FDD3.4050201@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <42430466.8080207@rogers.com>

Anton Markov wrote:

>
> That is the weirdest thing I have ever seen; I just tried the exact 
> command and it works. I am not sure what to do at this point.
>
> Try typing 'status' at the mysql> prompt, and see what it tells you.
>
> Try running the command 'SELECT * FROM mysql.user;'
>
> And tell us what the results are. This really is a most weird error.
>
> Also, can you post your $HOME/my.cnf and /etc/my.cnf if they exist 
> (edit out any sensitive info they may contain).
>
> Try re-installing the mysql client and mysqld server (probably one RPM 
> package if you installed from RPM.
>
Results are as follows:

mysql> status
--------------
mysql  Ver 12.22 Distrib 4.0.20, for mandrake-linux-gnu (i586)

Connection id:          2
Current database:
Current user:           root at localhost
SSL:                    Not in use
Current pager:          stdout
Using outfile:          ''
Server version:         4.0.20
Protocol version:       10
Connection:             Localhost via UNIX socket
Client characterset:    latin1
Server characterset:    latin1
UNIX socket:            /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
Uptime:                 1 hour 4 min 46 sec

Threads: 1  Questions: 4  Slow queries: 0  Opens: 0  Flush tables: 1  
Open tables: 0  Queries per second avg: 0.001
--------------

mysql> SELECT * FROM mysql.user;
+-----------+------+------------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+---------------+--------------+-----------+------------+-----------------+------------+------------+--------------+------------+-----------------------+------------------+--------------+-----------------+------------------+----------+------------+-------------+--------------+---------------+-------------+-----------------+
| Host      | User | Password         | Select_priv | Insert_priv | 
Update_priv | Delete_priv | Create_priv | Drop_priv | Reload_priv | 
Shutdown_priv | Process_priv | File_priv | Grant_priv | References_priv 
| Index_priv | Alter_priv | Show_db_priv | Super_priv | 
Create_tmp_table_priv | Lock_tables_priv | Execute_priv | 
Repl_slave_priv | Repl_client_priv | ssl_type | ssl_cipher | x509_issuer 
| x509_subject | max_questions | max_updates | max_connections |
+-----------+------+------------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+---------------+--------------+-----------+------------+-----------------+------------+------------+--------------+------------+-----------------------+------------------+--------------+-----------------+------------------+----------+------------+-------------+--------------+---------------+-------------+-----------------+
| localhost | root | 3aeda02e6b807aa1 | Y           | Y           | 
Y           | Y           | Y           | Y         | Y           | 
Y             | Y            | Y         | Y          | Y               
| Y          | Y          | Y            | Y          | 
Y                     | Y                | Y            | 
Y               | Y                |          |            |             
|              |             0 |           0 |               0 |
| localhost |      |                  | N           | N           | 
N           | N           | N           | N         | N           | 
N             | N            | N         | N          | N               
| N          | N          | N            | N          | 
N                     | N                | N            | 
N               | N                |          |            |             
|              |             0 |           0 |               0 |
+-----------+------+------------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+---------------+--------------+-----------+------------+-----------------+------------+------------+--------------+------------+-----------------------+------------------+--------------+-----------------+------------------+----------+------------+-------------+--------------+---------------+-------------+-----------------+
2 rows in set (0.00 sec)

I could not find any my.cnf files.

I will try removing and reinstalling if necessary.... But that seems so 
much like windows lol

Thanks
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From alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 18:30:24 2005
From: alamba-zCpon8wu3duE88LZEN7QYV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:00:24 +0530
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G 
	router
References: <20050324051357.17162.qmail@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> 
	<005501c53038$ec0d65d0$210d940a@Lamba> <20050324143909.GA4981@free> 
	<20050324161643.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <001001c5309f$8bb119e0$0b00a8c0@Lamba>

> That too would be wrong.  You have a route for the local subnet
> (192.168.1.0/24 in this case) and you have a default route (0.0.0.0)
> which sets the gateway address for going anywhere else.  Traffic for the
> local subnet should never be routed through a gateway (since the gateway
> is for getting to subnets other than the local ones).
> 
> Lennart Sorensen

Lsorense is absolutely right. Can't believe I missed that one. Thanks a ton.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 17:19:13 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:19:13 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171326.GA16710-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324171913.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable?  This would look something like this:
> 
> 
> ----		   ___________			__________
> |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> -----		  ------------			---------     
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> 
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.

Well with RJ45 plugs (used for twisted pair ethernet) each connection
uses either 2 or 4 pairs of wire out of the 4 pairs in the cable.  How
many depends on the speed and type of the link.  10 and 100TX use 2
pairs, 100T4 uses 4 pairs, and Gigabit uses 4 pairs.

So if you don't ever want to support gigabit then you could
theoretically conenct the second connection to the two unused pairs in
the cable, although you would probably cause extra signal noise
problems, and of course would need to split the cable to two plugs at
the hub (is it a hub?  anyone still use hubs when switches are almost
free?  Don't you like full duplex?).  I believe pin 1&2 is the first
pair, and 3&6 is the second pair for normal ethernet.  4&5 is the pair
originally reserved for phone use, but that too causes lots of noise,
and 7&8 is the last pair.

Lennart Sorensen
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 19:09:08 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:09:08 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4242F4D1.5090206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42431054.4090009@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Stephen wrote:
| Anton Markov wrote:
|
|> Ya, the documentation is not written with new users in mind. The entire
|> MySQL manual is more of a referrence guide than a manual.
|>
|> I could try to help, but I would rather do it on the mailing list so
|> others can learn from the solution.
|>
|> I am not sure if I completely understood your problem; I got that you
|> can't even connect to the MySQL server at all as root. I hope the above
|> steps help fix that, and if I misunderstoon the problem or you need
|> further assistance, just reply to the list and someone will try to help.
|
|
| Hi Anton
|
| Thank you for your reply! Perhaps you could write a HOWTO for new users :)
|
| I followed what suggested, and this is what resulted:
|
| ========
| [root at pw bin]# killall mysqld
| [root at pw bin]# 050324 12:03:10  mysqld ended
|
| [root at pw bin]# mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &
| [1] 5873
| [root at pw bin]# Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
|
| [root at pw bin]# mysql -u root
| Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
| Your MySQL connection id is 1 to server version: 4.0.20
|
| Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.
|
| mysql> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO root@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY 'pw';
| ERROR 1047: Unknown command
| mysql>
| =======
|
| The unknown command error has me very confused.
|
| And suggestions?

Well, it appears I got it all wrong :(

You can't use the GRANT command without the privilege tables.

Either try the command "FLUSH PRIVILEGES" and then right after do the
GRANT command as described above, or if that doesn't work, go to the
following page and search for a comment by "Rusty Carruth" which
provides a step-by-step guide:

<http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/ftp.mysql.com/doc/en/Timezone_problems.html>

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCQxBTRreNkzrRRLQRAhy7AJ9q3r5pTsbdebYoSucfqeohJ3r7fQCfUo9w
rVk/xTsTmjjwE5xoApotnJo=
=Nhvm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 20:42:39 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:42:39 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171913.GI23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324171913.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20050324204239.GA14635@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:19:13PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> > Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> > lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> > RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> > many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> > room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> > the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> > cable?  This would look something like this:
> > 
> > 
> > ----		   ___________			__________
> > |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> > -----		  ------------			---------     
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		      |				  |
> > 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> > 
> > I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> > instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> > least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> 
> Well with RJ45 plugs (used for twisted pair ethernet) each connection
> uses either 2 or 4 pairs of wire out of the 4 pairs in the cable.  How
> many depends on the speed and type of the link.  10 and 100TX use 2
> pairs, 100T4 uses 4 pairs, and Gigabit uses 4 pairs.
> 
> So if you don't ever want to support gigabit then you could
> theoretically conenct the second connection to the two unused pairs in
> the cable, although you would probably cause extra signal noise
> problems, and of course would need to split the cable to two plugs at
> the hub (is it a hub?  anyone still use hubs when switches are almost
> free?  Don't you like full duplex?).  I believe pin 1&2 is the first
> pair, and 3&6 is the second pair for normal ethernet.  4&5 is the pair
> originally reserved for phone use, but that too causes lots of noise,
> and 7&8 is the last pair.

One suggestion that I don't think anyone else has made is that
if the ASCII picture is correct you could replace the rj45 plug
in the middle with two rj45 plugs, one connected to the cable
that comes from the hub, the other to the cable that runs to
the room on the right.  Then, instead of connecting directly to
the computer in the middle room, connect them both to a switch
(or hub) - the cable from the originating hub going to the
uplink port (if the switch doesn't autosense).  Add a third
connection from the new switch to the computer and you're set.
This method means (1) you don't have to redo the existing
wiring, just one wall plug, and (2) you don't have to make
your own rj45 plugs (that takes a special crimping tool and
a small amount of experience - the wall socket just takes a
screwdriver and keeping track of which colour wires need to
be used).  If you use an autosensing switch, you won't need
to figure out which of the two cables is from the hub and
which goes on to the next room - they both would just plug
into random ports on the switch anyhow.


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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 22:08:18 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:08:18 -0500
Subject: testing local virtual hosts before making a DNS change
Message-ID: <42433A52.5070205@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I am building a new server to replace an aging old one. This server
has numerous domains and actually come from several machines. Because of
this I want to test as much as I can to make sure the migration worked.
The problem I am having at the moment is with how to test domains in an
Apache (2.x) virtual host contained without making DNS changes.

   I though I could just add something like:

www.domain.com	111.222.33.44		# The new IP

   To my '/etc/hosts' file expecting it to have the highest priority in
name resolution. For various reasons this server is already running a
live DNS server that is a slave to the NS with SOA on all the domains so
I can't simply drop in my own DNS server to override the name
resolution. (I know this isn't optimal but it made the most sense, all
things concidered).

   So my question then is; How can I test apache (and later mail) for
domains currently on another IP?

   Thanks!

Madison

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 22:29:50 2005
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:29:50 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324204239.GA14635-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324171913.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050324204239.GA14635@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <20050324222950.GA13031@utoronto.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 03:42:39PM -0500, John Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:19:13PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> > > Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> > > lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> > > RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> > > many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> > > room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> > > the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> > > cable?  This would look something like this:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> > > 		      |				  |
> > > 		      |				  |
> > > 		      |				  |
> > > 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> > > 
> > > I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> > > instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> > > least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.
> > 
> 
> One suggestion that I don't think anyone else has made is that
> if the ASCII picture is correct you could replace the rj45 plug
> in the middle with two rj45 plugs, one connected to the cable
> that comes from the hub, the other to the cable that runs to
> the room on the right.  Then, instead of connecting directly to
> the computer in the middle room, connect them both to a switch
> (or hub) - the cable from the originating hub going to the
> uplink port (if the switch doesn't autosense).  Add a third
> connection from the new switch to the computer and you're set.
> This method means (1) you don't have to redo the existing
> wiring, just one wall plug, and (2) you don't have to make
> your own rj45 plugs (that takes a special crimping tool and
> a small amount of experience - the wall socket just takes a
> screwdriver and keeping track of which colour wires need to
> be used).  If you use an autosensing switch, you won't need
> to figure out which of the two cables is from the hub and
> which goes on to the next room - they both would just plug
> into random ports on the switch anyhow.
> 
> 

ahh.  that's a great idea, I think I will do that.  (somves my main
problem, which was how-to-cram-another-cable-into-the-wire-moulding)
Now I just need to find a small, cheap hub that I can mount
unobtrusively on the wall somehow (suggestions?).

matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot:
zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org
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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 22:42:14 2005
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:42:14 -0500
Subject: testing local virtual hosts before making a DNS change
In-Reply-To: <42433A52.5070205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42433A52.5070205@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <42434246.5090907@quadratic.net>

type this:

( fill in the <> as needed.)

$ telnet <webserveripaddress> 80 <enter>
HTTP / HTTP/1.1 <enter>
Host: <youvirtualhostname> <enter>
<enter>
...
your virtual web page here
...
<control-d>

Start again with next virtual host...

I use this technique lots as part of narrowing down dns/web server/ 
network issues.

telnet + a little know how... the ultimate browser.

david



Madison Kelly wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>   I am building a new server to replace an aging old one. This server
> has numerous domains and actually come from several machines. Because of
> this I want to test as much as I can to make sure the migration worked.
> The problem I am having at the moment is with how to test domains in an
> Apache (2.x) virtual host contained without making DNS changes.
>
>   I though I could just add something like:
>
> www.domain.com    111.222.33.44        # The new IP
>
>   To my '/etc/hosts' file expecting it to have the highest priority in
> name resolution. For various reasons this server is already running a
> live DNS server that is a slave to the NS with SOA on all the domains so
> I can't simply drop in my own DNS server to override the name
> resolution. (I know this isn't optimal but it made the most sense, all
> things concidered).
>
>   So my question then is; How can I test apache (and later mail) for
> domains currently on another IP?
>
>   Thanks!
>
> Madison
>

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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 22:52:27 2005
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:52:27 -0500
Subject: testing local virtual hosts before making a DNS change
In-Reply-To: <42433A52.5070205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42433A52.5070205@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <424344AB.7040502@utoronto.ca>

Madison Kelly wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>   I am building a new server to replace an aging old one. This server
> has numerous domains and actually come from several machines. Because of
> this I want to test as much as I can to make sure the migration worked.
> The problem I am having at the moment is with how to test domains in an
> Apache (2.x) virtual host contained without making DNS changes.
>
>   I though I could just add something like:
>
> www.domain.com    111.222.33.44        # The new IP
>
>   To my '/etc/hosts' file expecting it to have the highest priority in
> name resolution. For various reasons this server is already running a
> live DNS server that is a slave to the NS with SOA on all the domains so
> I can't simply drop in my own DNS server to override the name
> resolution. (I know this isn't optimal but it made the most sense, all
> things concidered).
>
>   So my question then is; How can I test apache (and later mail) for
> domains currently on another IP?


Adding those lines on a test client machine and making sure that the 
"hosts:" line in /etc/nsswitch.conf has files before dns should work 
fine.  Hope this helps.

Regards,
Marcus
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 24 23:22:01 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:22:01 -0500
Subject: testing local virtual hosts before making a DNS change
In-Reply-To: <424344AB.7040502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42433A52.5070205@alteeve.com> <424344AB.7040502@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <42434B99.4010208@alteeve.com>

Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>>   I am building a new server to replace an aging old one. This server
>> has numerous domains and actually come from several machines. Because of
>> this I want to test as much as I can to make sure the migration worked.
>> The problem I am having at the moment is with how to test domains in an
>> Apache (2.x) virtual host contained without making DNS changes.
>>
>>   I though I could just add something like:
>>
>> www.domain.com    111.222.33.44        # The new IP
>>
>>   To my '/etc/hosts' file expecting it to have the highest priority in
>> name resolution. For various reasons this server is already running a
>> live DNS server that is a slave to the NS with SOA on all the domains so
>> I can't simply drop in my own DNS server to override the name
>> resolution. (I know this isn't optimal but it made the most sense, all
>> things concidered).
>>
>>   So my question then is; How can I test apache (and later mail) for
>> domains currently on another IP?
> 
> 
> 
> Adding those lines on a test client machine and making sure that the 
> "hosts:" line in /etc/nsswitch.conf has files before dns should work 
> fine.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,
> Marcus

   Thanks Marcus and David,

   Turns out I was entering <name> <ip> which wasn't working... How I 
missed that I don't know... Anyway, flipping that around got it working 
just fine. Thanks!

Madison

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TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:11:34 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:11:34 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171326.GA16710-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <42438166.5020100@rogers.com>

Matt Price wrote:
> hey folks,
> 
> Hope it's ok if I ask a networking question here... I'm planning to
> lay a bunch of ethernet cable in a room.  I have these fancy Leviton
> RJ45 female jacks and am running the cable through wolding, so having
> many cables come out of a hub is a royal pain.  The computers in the
> room are arrayed along a straight line.  Is it at all possible to use
> the RJ45 jack as a simple junction connecting two pieces of cat 5
> cable?  This would look something like this:
> 
> 
> ----		   ___________			__________
> |hub|--------------|rj45 plug|-----------------|rj45 plug|
> -----		  ------------			---------     
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		      |				  |
> 		 Computer		       Computer	       
> 
> I imagine this is impossible, or people would do it all the time
> instead of using hubs...  anyway, if someone can explain to me at
> least why it doesn't work, that'd be a help.

If I read that correctly, you're planning on running all the computers 
in parallel, which won't work.  Each computer must have it's own 
dedicated cable pairs to the hub.  However, you can run two computers in 
one cat 5 cable, by using the normally unused two pairs, for the second 
computer.  This only works for 10 & 100 Mb ethernet.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:15:23 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:15:23 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324171913.GI23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324171913.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4243824B.4010006@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> the hub (is it a hub?  anyone still use hubs when switches are almost
> free?  Don't you like full duplex?).  I believe pin 1&2 is the first
> pair, and 3&6 is the second pair for normal ethernet.  4&5 is the pair
> originally reserved for phone use, but that too causes lots of noise,
> and 7&8 is the last pair.

Twisted pair ethernet was designed to share cables with analog 
telephones.  Also, the frequencies used by ethernet are far removed from 
those used by phones, so there's likely not much interference.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:17:51 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:17:51 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <4242F85A.2080101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <4242F85A.2080101@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <424382DF.9050503@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
>   Well, strictly, no you can't. Realistically though, if you are in a 
> pinch, you can run two runs through one RJ45 cable but you will probably 
> have trouble with cross talk... Hard to say, I've never done it. If you 
> want to try though, here's the idea:

Two circuits, running in the same cable works fine.  I've seen it, as 
installed by a major networking provider.  There are patch panels, which 
are built to connect one 4 pair cable, to 2 RJ45 jacks.  However, they 
cannot be used for gigabit.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:20:46 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:20:46 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324175700.GA22609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324175700.GA22609@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4243838E.2030007@rogers.com>

Matt Price wrote:
> man, you guys are fast.
> 
> but so far I count 3 quite different explanations.  Any comments on
> who's right?

I am.  ;-)

To help you make your decision, I suggest you read up on how ethernet works.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:22:20 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:22:20 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324180240.GJ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000@spsystems.net> <20050324180240.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <424383EC.4060307@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> 
> Just remember, don't use a cross over cable for gigabit.  it won't work
> and will drop you to 100TX instead.  Gigabit is bidirectional on 4 pairs
> and doesn't need crossover ever.

According to what I read, Gigabit can handle either cable type.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 03:23:33 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:23:33 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050324180434.GK23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <20050324175700.GA22609@utoronto.ca> <20050324180434.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <42438435.3030907@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:


> I think the summary is:
> You could run two connections on the single wire by splitting it at the
> hub and at the first computer, but that you are likely to have a bad
> link most of the time due to cross talk noise so it's a bad idea.  The
> thing about a bus is completely wrong for twisted pair ethernet.
> 
> I wouldn't recomend trying to save on the wire.

Sharing a cable is done commercially and there are even patch panels 
designed to support it.
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 04:18:39 2005
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:18:39 -0500
Subject: More Routing Questions
Message-ID: <1111724318.3947.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have a laptop that I'm using to connect wirelessly to a router and out
to the internet. My router address is 192.168.0.1  so my wlan0 address
is 192.168.0.4 (I'm using DHCP) . I want to use my free ethernet port on
my laptop to connect another computer to the internet making my laptop
into a hub of sorts. I can't seem to get the correct gateway
combination. I've tried setting my ethernet port as 192.168.1.1 and
setting it as a gateway for the network 192.168.1.0 which my other
computer is on (address 192.168.1.2) . On the other computer I set the
default networks gateway to 192.168.1.1 . Whats the magic combination
here? Thanks

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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 06:30:17 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:30:17 -0500
Subject: Fedora Core 3 on ThinkPad R31
References: <08795C772787354E914917175F55033005084B@skarloey.diaslan.net>
Message-ID: <003801c53104$2e6cf550$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

If it might be of interest to anyone, I just installed FC3 on a ThinkPad R31
from the CD's,
everything went really fine, I only had to boot with 'linux nofb' to get the
stuff displayed
correctly during installation, then had to configure the CD/DVD-ROM in a
custom rule file in /etc/udev/rules.d, to get the proper device ownership
and links.

I am impressed...

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 08:06:54 2005
From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 03:06:54 -0500
Subject: More Routing Questions
In-Reply-To: <1111724318.3947.13.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <1111724318.3947.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ebc50aa05032500063dcc8489@mail.gmail.com>

This doesn't really answer your question. I've had to do something
similar a few times, but for temporary use. I set up a dhcp server on
the machine with the extra ethernet card and setup ip
forwarding/masquerading. I have a file with the steps I took to set it
up should you be interested.

Franco

--

On Mar 24, 2005 11:18 PM, jim ruxton <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have a laptop that I'm using to connect wirelessly to a router and out
> to the internet. My router address is 192.168.0.1  so my wlan0 address
> is 192.168.0.4 (I'm using DHCP) . I want to use my free ethernet port on
> my laptop to connect another computer to the internet making my laptop
> into a hub of sorts. I can't seem to get the correct gateway
> combination. I've tried setting my ethernet port as 192.168.1.1 and
> setting it as a gateway for the network 192.168.1.0 which my other
> computer is on (address 192.168.1.2) . On the other computer I set the
> default networks gateway to 192.168.1.1 . Whats the magic combination
> here? Thanks
> 
> --
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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 14:06:47 2005
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:06:47 -0500
Subject: Memory Pricing Falling ?
Message-ID: <42441AF7.7020600@golden.net>

What's up with the memory pricing lately ?

I'm seeing DDR-2 1 GB for 147.00 CAD. Anyone aware if there is a glut or 
some tech change coming ?

John




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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 14:08:46 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:08:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: udev and USB devices - FC3
In-Reply-To: <ebc50aa05032500063dcc8489-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1111724318.3947.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
    <ebc50aa05032500063dcc8489@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32774.216.154.13.111.1111759726.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

Hello,

One my desktop running Fedora 3 when I insert a thumb drive in a USB port
it gets automatically recognized and mounted with an entry in fstab
/dev/sda1 on /media/LEXAR_MEDIA type vfat
     (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,noatime,iocharset=utf8,user=xxx)

But on my laptop nothing happens when I insert the thumb drive in any of
the USB ports, so I am trying to add entries in a file in
/etc/udev/rules.d but I am not sure what's needed.

Those entries get created when the (laptop) system starts:

/proc/bus/usb/001/001
/proc/bus/usb/001/002
/proc/bus/usb/001/003
/proc/bus/usb/002/001
/proc/bus/usb/002/003

as well as /dev/sda and /dev/sda1

Also fstab contains:
usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)

so it looks like there is only a little bit missing...

Any help is appreciated (Lennart?). Thanks.

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 14:17:46 2005
From: vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org (vertaxis)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:17:46 -0500
Subject: Memory Pricing Falling ?
In-Reply-To: <42441AF7.7020600-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <42441AF7.7020600@golden.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050325091613.026da090@mail.vif.com>

At 09:06 AM 2005/03/25, John Myshrall wrote:
>What's up with the memory pricing lately ?
>
>I'm seeing DDR-2 1 GB for 147.00 CAD. Anyone aware if there is a glut or 
>some tech change coming ?
>
>John

They're installing DDR3 on the latest video cards now.  They're also may be 
shrinking sizes down on the die again.  I think it a prelude to a tech shift.

I can also hope it's a glut.


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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 14:21:47 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:21:47 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
Message-ID: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com>


It seems this is 'networking week' on TLUG, so let me throw this out (as it's 
pertinent):  

  I've got a cable modem (Motorola SB5100), and I found that - lately - if I 
hooked it up via USB, for some flaky reason I simply couldn't get a 
connection upon rebooting (which I'm sure has something to do with the USB 
ports, as the modem works perfectly and the connection is solid).
  I decided to go back to RJ45 (Cat-6) via an ethernet card which has worked 
solidly in the past. However, I've discovered now that every time I boot up 
there is no recognition between the cable modem and the PCI ethernet card - 
however, once I'm booted up, all I need to do is run '/etc/init.d/networking 
restart' and all is well (every time), which leads me to believe that perhaps 
one of the following scenarios is happening: 
 
1. My system isn't recognizing my PCI card prior to DHCP trying to do the 
magic handshake (it certainly does recognize my PCI cards when I'm logged 
in). 
2. My system has got USB on the brain and isn't *looking* for a PCI ethernet 
connection ?
3. My system is possessed by space-monkeys.  

  Any clues what I can try to sort this one out?

  Many thanks in advance,

Matt

-- 
Matt Cahill
             m dash cahill at rogers dot com
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 14:34:54 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:34:54 +0200 (IST)
Subject: testing local virtual hosts before making a DNS change
In-Reply-To: <42433A52.5070205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <42433A52.5070205@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503251633210.25880@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>  I am building a new server to replace an aging old one. This server
> has numerous domains and actually come from several machines. Because of
> this I want to test as much as I can to make sure the migration worked.
> The problem I am having at the moment is with how to test domains in an
> Apache (2.x) virtual host contained without making DNS changes.
>
>  I though I could just add something like:
>
> www.domain.com	111.222.33.44		# The new IP

Enable multiple IPs for your machine and assign an IP that is not routed 
for your network to your virtual server(s), and to your machine. Make 
sure that the routing table does not route it (neither in nor out). Then 
add the host to your /etc/hosts and test

Peter

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 15:49:03 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:49:03 -0500
Subject: udev and USB devices - FC3
In-Reply-To: <32774.216.154.13.111.1111759726.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1111724318.3947.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>    <ebc50aa05032500063dcc8489@mail.gmail.com> <32774.216.154.13.111.1111759726.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <424432EF.2040501@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Francois Ouellette wrote:
| Hello,
|
| One my desktop running Fedora 3 when I insert a thumb drive in a USB port
| it gets automatically recognized and mounted with an entry in fstab
| /dev/sda1 on /media/LEXAR_MEDIA type vfat
|      (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,noatime,iocharset=utf8,user=xxx)

'/etc/fstab' doesn't actualy mount anything on it's own. Most likely
there is a hotplug script which gets executed every time the thumbdrive
is inserted and does the mounting for you.

|
| But on my laptop nothing happens when I insert the thumb drive in any of
| the USB ports, so I am trying to add entries in a file in
| /etc/udev/rules.d but I am not sure what's needed.

Once again, UDEV is not responsible for mounting anything. It simply
creates or removes device nodes (files in '/dev'). You stated below that
/dev/sda and /dev/sda1 are already being created, so UDEV is not the
problem here.

|
| Those entries get created when the (laptop) system starts:
|
| /proc/bus/usb/001/001
| /proc/bus/usb/001/002
| /proc/bus/usb/001/003
| /proc/bus/usb/002/001
| /proc/bus/usb/002/003
|
| as well as /dev/sda and /dev/sda1
|
| Also fstab contains:
| usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)

'usbfs' is the filesystem that contains information about USB devices
connected to the system (such as '/proc/bus/usb/001/001' above). It has
nothing to do with mounting the actual devices.

|
| so it looks like there is only a little bit missing...
|

I am not sure if/how the desktop auto-detected the thumb drive (I am not
~ an Fedora user), but I know Redhat used to have a hardware detection
utility called 'kudzu' which you could try running on the laptop (I am
assuming your laptop runs FC3, since you didn't say otherwise).

Otherwise, here is the manual route:
1) copy the lines related to the thumb drive from your desktop (the ones
you posted above) into your laptop's /etc/fstab. That should at least
let you mount the thumb drive manually
2) As far as automounting it goes, you have several choices:
- - Try looking in /etc/hotplug on your desktop for any usb-related
scripts your laptop may be missing (I don't know how hotplug works on FC3)
- - Forget about hotplug and use automount/autofs. This is my favourite
option, since automount will also unmount your filesystems when they are
not in use, so you can remove the drive without issuing an unmount
command (after waiting for it to unmount).

I hope this gets you on the right track; sorry I can't be more helpful.

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCRDLuRreNkzrRRLQRApYyAJ94k4JIDRC/1CEeMU5ecM6ErXEG/wCfZHyX
zhGm5WKzi5CGuLEnifnD9bU=
=h10n
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 15:59:51 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:59:51 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42443577.2050807@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Matt Cahill wrote:
| It seems this is 'networking week' on TLUG, so let me throw this out
(as it's
| pertinent):
|
|   I've got a cable modem (Motorola SB5100), and I found that - lately
- - if I
| hooked it up via USB, for some flaky reason I simply couldn't get a
| connection upon rebooting (which I'm sure has something to do with the
USB
| ports, as the modem works perfectly and the connection is solid).
|   I decided to go back to RJ45 (Cat-6) via an ethernet card which has
worked
| solidly in the past. However, I've discovered now that every time I
boot up
| there is no recognition between the cable modem and the PCI ethernet
card -
| however, once I'm booted up, all I need to do is run
'/etc/init.d/networking
| restart' and all is well (every time), which leads me to believe that
perhaps
| one of the following scenarios is happening:
|
| 1. My system isn't recognizing my PCI card prior to DHCP trying to do the
| magic handshake (it certainly does recognize my PCI cards when I'm logged
| in).
| 2. My system has got USB on the brain and isn't *looking* for a PCI
ethernet
| connection ?
| 3. My system is possessed by space-monkeys.
|
|   Any clues what I can try to sort this one out?

First of all, I would stick with the RJ45 Ethernet connection for a
number of reasons, not the least of which is lower CPU load. It's also a
lot more standardized/stable/older so problems are easier to fix (I have
no idea how the USB connection works, for instance).

I think that your network interface is simply not being activated (since
your computer still thinks you are connecting through USB). Which
distribution are you using?

Try running 'ifup eth0' or whatever ethernet port your modem is
connected to, right after restarting the computer. If the internet works
afterwards, then the interface is simply not being activated. Check in
/etc/network(ing) for a file called 'interfaces' or whatever equivalent
your distribution uses. I should have an entry similar to:

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
...

The part below the 'iface' line may be different (you probably have dhcp
rather than static IP).

The 'auto eth0' line is the key. It tells your computer to activate the
interface when your computer starts. Add the line if it's missing, and
try again.

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCRDV2RreNkzrRRLQRAmBvAJ0XQUpSvO8rm99sEWhlwEGzQ8PPvQCgjTj2
BKKpatLpdB6vUadeBzwrONw=
=HhwC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 16:47:54 2005
From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:47:54 -0500
Subject: udev and USB devices - FC3
In-Reply-To: <424432EF.2040501-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1111724318.3947.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	 <ebc50aa05032500063dcc8489@mail.gmail.com>
	 <32774.216.154.13.111.1111759726.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
	 <424432EF.2040501@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <b912425c05032508477ceb1bc8@mail.gmail.com>

On the laptop, what does /var/log/messages say when you insert the USB
key on the laptop?
Are there any errors?


-Joseph-

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:49:03 -0500, Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Francois Ouellette wrote:
> | Hello,
> |
> | One my desktop running Fedora 3 when I insert a thumb drive in a USB port
> | it gets automatically recognized and mounted with an entry in fstab
> | /dev/sda1 on /media/LEXAR_MEDIA type vfat
> |      (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,noatime,iocharset=utf8,user=xxx)
> 
> '/etc/fstab' doesn't actualy mount anything on it's own. Most likely
> there is a hotplug script which gets executed every time the thumbdrive
> is inserted and does the mounting for you.
> 
> |
> | But on my laptop nothing happens when I insert the thumb drive in any of
> | the USB ports, so I am trying to add entries in a file in
> | /etc/udev/rules.d but I am not sure what's needed.
> 
> Once again, UDEV is not responsible for mounting anything. It simply
> creates or removes device nodes (files in '/dev'). You stated below that
> /dev/sda and /dev/sda1 are already being created, so UDEV is not the
> problem here.
> 
> |
> | Those entries get created when the (laptop) system starts:
> |
> | /proc/bus/usb/001/001
> | /proc/bus/usb/001/002
> | /proc/bus/usb/001/003
> | /proc/bus/usb/002/001
> | /proc/bus/usb/002/003
> |
> | as well as /dev/sda and /dev/sda1
> |
> | Also fstab contains:
> | usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
> 
> 'usbfs' is the filesystem that contains information about USB devices
> connected to the system (such as '/proc/bus/usb/001/001' above). It has
> nothing to do with mounting the actual devices.
> 
> |
> | so it looks like there is only a little bit missing...
> |
> 
> I am not sure if/how the desktop auto-detected the thumb drive (I am not
> ~ an Fedora user), but I know Redhat used to have a hardware detection
> utility called 'kudzu' which you could try running on the laptop (I am
> assuming your laptop runs FC3, since you didn't say otherwise).
> 
> Otherwise, here is the manual route:
> 1) copy the lines related to the thumb drive from your desktop (the ones
> you posted above) into your laptop's /etc/fstab. That should at least
> let you mount the thumb drive manually
> 2) As far as automounting it goes, you have several choices:
> - - Try looking in /etc/hotplug on your desktop for any usb-related
> scripts your laptop may be missing (I don't know how hotplug works on FC3)
> - - Forget about hotplug and use automount/autofs. This is my favourite
> option, since automount will also unmount your filesystems when they are
> not in use, so you can remove the drive without issuing an unmount
> command (after waiting for it to unmount).
> 
> I hope this gets you on the right track; sorry I can't be more helpful.
> 
> - --
> Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>
> 
> GnuPG Key fingerprint =
> 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4
> 
> *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFCRDLuRreNkzrRRLQRApYyAJ94k4JIDRC/1CEeMU5ecM6ErXEG/wCfZHyX
> zhGm5WKzi5CGuLEnifnD9bU=
> =h10n
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 18:40:41 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:40:41 -0500
Subject: udev and USB devices - FC3
References: <E1DEscU-0002go-9g@nu.look.ca>
Message-ID: <000601c5316a$37d02750$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

> On the laptop, what does /var/log/messages say when you insert the USB
> key on the laptop?
> Are there any errors?
>
>
> -Joseph-

Hi Anton and Joseph,

I ran up2date and installed the latest available of kudzu, hal and udev and
presto: the device started working! So, it was about device probing and
scripts, as Anton mentioned.

Thanks,

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Mar 25 20:08:04 2005
From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:08:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Connect Linux box to the Internet via Linksys WRT54G router
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050325200804.13887.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello Everyone,

It is Magic!!! It is working now and I am writing to
your guys on my fresh new Mandrake 10.1 box connected
to the Internet via the linksys router.

As you know that I have had problems for the past few
days to get this work. What I have just done was
simply open the case and took the card out, seems
nothing wrong, then put it back. Switched the power on
and it worked. I am still not sure why it worked. The
setting is dhcp over eth0. Nothing else and it worked.
Maybe because i updated the version from RH7.3 or
Mandrake 10.1. not so sure...

The Interface is much better I have to see comparing 
the 2 packages and applications are much better
organized in M 10.1 (sorry i haven't had the chance to
check out Rh9 or other distros). I am so happy now
(although it may sounds a bit exaggerated ;o) I
appreciate greatly the great support I have received
from all of you. Thank you very very much! 

Happy Easter everybody.

Regards,

Michael


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Make Yahoo! your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 07:24:12 2005
From: kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B B)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:24:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>

Could someone be so kind to have a look at this link?
http://obc.canadapost.ca/

I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)

The problem I am having is a phony error message
telling me to upgrade my browser to the latest IE or
Netscape. I believe the server which is running ISS is
discriminating against Linux clients by displaying a
bogus error. I have tested Mandrake 10, Mandrake 10.1
and Knoppix. using Mozilla, Netscape, opera and
konqueror. None work but when I try from the same
location on windoze and Mac osX it works fine.

I called the web support number and they said to check
my ssl but they are working fine for other sites. The
tech also said he was using firefox but on XP.

Although I have to work around this silly problem it
is holding up the plan to start replacing Win98 and
WinME in this small office.


Thanks
Cameron



		
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 08:10:00 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:10:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20050326072412.8971.qmail-b8gy/OM6THqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:

> I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)

Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot seriously 
claim this is too old.

Here is the feed back for the web site:

http://www.canadapost.ca/business/corporate/about/contact_us/customerservice-e.asp 

I just wrote to them.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 11:32:21 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:32:21 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20050326072412.8971.qmail-b8gy/OM6THqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42454845.9090406@sympatico.ca>

B B wrote:

>Could someone be so kind to have a look at this link?
>http://obc.canadapost.ca/
>
>I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
>business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
>  
>
Have you tried spoofing your ID; posing as IE ?
djp
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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 13:17:52 2005
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:17:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:
>> I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
>> business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
> Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot seriously
> claim this is too old.

Run "wget http://obc.canadapost.ca/" and have a look at their javascript.

It looks like they explicitly specify a list of acceptable 
platform-browser-version combinations.  If you're not on win32, macppc or 
mac68k, or if you're not using IE or Netscape, you're out of luck.

JV
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 13:25:21 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:25:21 +0000
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <42454845.9090406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> <42454845.9090406@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200503261325.21374.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 26, 2005 11:32 am, David J Patrick wrote:
> B B wrote:
> >Could someone be so kind to have a look at this link?
> >http://obc.canadapost.ca/
> >
> >I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> >business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
>
> Have you tried spoofing your ID; posing as IE ?
> djp
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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Default konqueror on KDE 3.4 - no
Identifying itself as Mozilla 1.7.3 on linux - no
Identifying itself as Mozilla 1.7.3 on XP - YES!
Identifying Itself as IE6 on XP - YES!

Firefox 1.01 on Linux - no


looks anti-linux to me.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 13:30:26 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:30:26 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux? ... Yes
 !
In-Reply-To: <200503261325.21374.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> <42454845.9090406@sympatico.ca> <200503261325.21374.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <424563F2.4000808@sympatico.ca>

Jason Shein wrote:

>> Have you tried spoofing your ID; posing as IE ?
>>
>>djp
>>    
>>
>
>Default konqueror on KDE 3.4 - no
>Identifying itself as Mozilla 1.7.3 on linux - no
>Identifying itself as Mozilla 1.7.3 on XP - YES!
>Identifying Itself as IE6 on XP - YES!
>
>Firefox 1.01 on Linux - no
>
>
>looks anti-linux to me.
>
>  
>
Booooo !!!
Canada Post should get a dose of bad press and surly customer feedback.
Who would find this an interesting news story ?
djp
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From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 14:34:58 2005
From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:34:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0503260925350.21277-100000@white.buynet.com>


On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:
>
> > I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> > business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
>
> Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot seriously
> claim this is too old.
>
> Here is the feed back for the web site:
>
> http://www.canadapost.ca/business/corporate/about/contact_us/customerservice-e.asp
>
> I just wrote to them.

	And remind them of their slogan: "from anywhere... to anyone"

...BTW, Konqueror 2.1.1 seems to be accepted, i.e. I get the login screen.


-- 

        Herb Richter  <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
        Toronto, Ontario
        http://PartsAndService.com
        http://PartsAndService.ca


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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 14:35:14 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:35:14 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714-dm88P3lIUJm3mOxTGPmkd16hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet>
Message-ID: <f9870c01050326063575fc7e31@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:17:52 -0500 (EST), John Vetterli
<jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:
> >> I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> >> business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
> > Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot seriously
> > claim this is too old.
> 
> Run "wget http://obc.canadapost.ca/" and have a look at their javascript.
> 
> It looks like they explicitly specify a list of acceptable
> platform-browser-version combinations.  If you're not on win32, macppc or
> mac68k, or if you're not using IE or Netscape, you're out of luck.

John,

Thanks for posting the results of your wget -- I have quoted your
results in my complaint to Canada Post, asking what specifically is
wrong with Linux and Mozilla Firefox.

Alex
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 15:04:33 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:04:33 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet> <f9870c01050326063575fc7e31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:17:52 -0500 (EST), John Vetterli
> <jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:
> > >> I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> > >> business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
> > > Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot
seriously
> > > claim this is too old.
> >
> > Run "wget http://obc.canadapost.ca/" and have a look at their
javascript.
> >
> > It looks like they explicitly specify a list of acceptable
> > platform-browser-version combinations.  If you're not on win32, macppc
or
> > mac68k, or if you're not using IE or Netscape, you're out of luck.

Many web designers use only one tool and expect the world to be compatible
with their little world instead of developing "real" applications that can
accommodate most of what's out there. Also, since some of the stuff on CP
site is about transactions and things that involve $$$ and tracking of
documents and they want to restrict the browsers to the few they know will
work with the way they coded their pages.

It's not only "Linux" as much as the HTML and related components that are
most probably based on M$ idea of "interoperability". May I mention the huge
reaction to B. Gates' article on this issue?!?

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>



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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 17:10:18 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:10:18 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet>
	 <f9870c01050326063575fc7e31@mail.gmail.com>
	 <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <f9870c0105032609105f30c00b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:04:33 -0500, Francois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Many web designers use only one tool and expect the world to be compatible
> with their little world instead of developing "real" applications that can
> accommodate most of what's out there. Also, since some of the stuff on CP
> site is about transactions and things that involve $$$ and tracking of
> documents and they want to restrict the browsers to the few they know will
> work with the way they coded their pages.

Disagree.

I'm able to access TD CanadaTrust to do banking using Mozilla Firefox.
I just checked it. If it's secure enough for TD CanadaTrust, it should
be secure enough for Canada Post.

More to the point, my bank is probably verifying that certain
functionality is present on the browser that's being used to access
the site, rather than just blindly saying "Only these operating
systems and browsers are allowed." That striokes me as a more
intelligent approach.

Alex
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 18:31:45 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:31:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <f9870c0105032609105f30c00b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
    <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet>
    <f9870c01050326063575fc7e31@mail.gmail.com>
    <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
    <f9870c0105032609105f30c00b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1165.216.154.13.111.1111861905.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>


> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:04:33 -0500, Francois Ouellette
> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Many web designers use only one tool and expect the world to be
>> compatible
>> with their little world instead of developing "real" applications that
>> can
>> accommodate most of what's out there. Also, since some of the stuff on
>> CP
>> site is about transactions and things that involve $$$ and tracking of
>> documents and they want to restrict the browsers to the few they know
>> will
>> work with the way they coded their pages.
>
> Disagree.
>
> I'm able to access TD CanadaTrust to do banking using Mozilla Firefox.
> I just checked it. If it's secure enough for TD CanadaTrust, it should
> be secure enough for Canada Post.
>
> More to the point, my bank is probably verifying that certain
> functionality is present on the browser that's being used to access
> the site, rather than just blindly saying "Only these operating
> systems and browsers are allowed." That striokes me as a more
> intelligent approach.
>
> Alex

This is exactly what I meant!
Improper specifications and/or lazy testing...
I access many sophisticated sites too, using Netscape or Firefox.
No problem either. Best approach is like you say: check first tell the
user if there is a problem. Do not unduly discriminate!
We should all complain to Canada Post.

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 19:25:34 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:25:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <42454845.9090406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
 <42454845.9090406@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503261423480.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, David J Patrick wrote:

> Have you tried spoofing your ID; posing as IE ?

The problem there is that then they will think that no one is using 
Firefox to try to access their site.  This comes down to the old "short 
term work around vs long term fix" conundrum.  If we go around 
masquerading as IE now things may only get worse :(

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 19:37:11 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:37:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
References: <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050326143509.14122A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Many web designers use only one tool and expect the world to be compatible
> with their little world instead of developing "real" applications that can
> accommodate most of what's out there.

Also, many web "designers" use semi-automated tools and really have no
idea what wretched mistakes those tools are committing in their names.
It's quite possible that neither Canada Post nor anyone working for them
actually made a conscious decision to restrict browser choice.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 19:38:00 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:38:00 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503261423480.22743-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> <42454845.9090406@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503261423480.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4245BA18.4070701@sympatico.ca>

Robert Brockway wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, David J Patrick wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Have you tried spoofing your ID; posing as IE ?
>>    
>>
>
>The problem there is that then they will think that no one is using 
>Firefox to try to access their site.  This comes down to the old "short 
>term work around vs long term fix" conundrum.  If we go around 
>masquerading as IE now things may only get worse :(
>
>Rob
>
>  
>
Well it's broken now, if we tape it up (spoof ID) and keep the wheel 
squeaky (complain loudly and often, alerting them to the fact that linux 
users are present and forced to fly under the radar ) it's better that 
giving up and booting the Borg.
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 20:01:09 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:01:09 -0500
Subject: I Need Help Initializing MySQL
In-Reply-To: <42431054.4090009-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com> <42431054.4090009@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <4245BF85.50300@rogers.com>

Anton Markov wrote:

> Well, it appears I got it all wrong :(
>
> You can't use the GRANT command without the privilege tables.
>
> Either try the command "FLUSH PRIVILEGES" and then right after do the
> GRANT command as described above, or if that doesn't work, go to the
> following page and search for a comment by "Rusty Carruth" which
> provides a step-by-step guide:
>
That had done the trick!

I am no longer stalled. I will save the link in case I need it.

Many thanks
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 21:52:26 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:26 -0500
Subject: intelligent comparison of strings in Perl
In-Reply-To: <4245BF85.50300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com> <42431054.4090009@truxtar.com> <4245BF85.50300@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4245D99A.8010803@istop.com>

It would be surprise to me if such things could not be done in Perl.

No, certainly, there is no better tool to do such things than Perl.

I guess that there are some perl modules that can help in that.

By "intelligent" I mean, in the first step, just comparing for how many 
characters two strings are the same (thats is easy to write, by 
anyway... may be somebody did that already?)

I suspect that there are "wiser" Perl modules around there. I would like 
to compare if two very similar strings are bearing in fact the same 
information (with some probabilty, of course, despite they are 
"different" strings).

Please advise.

zb.
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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 22:46:21 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:46:21 -0500
Subject: intelligent comparison of strings in Perl
In-Reply-To: <4245D99A.8010803-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com> <42431054.4090009@truxtar.com> <4245BF85.50300@rogers.com> <4245D99A.8010803@istop.com>
Message-ID: <4245E63D.3070608@almatau.com>

Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
...
> 
> I suspect that there are "wiser" Perl modules around there. I would like 
> to compare if two very similar strings are bearing in fact the same 
> information (with some probabilty, of course, despite they are 
> "different" strings).

"The same information" depends on context.  Two strings
contain "Toronto" and "Calgary".  Do they contain the same info?
No - these are different cities.
Yes - both are good as an example of Canadian city.

The module you need is String::AI
:-)
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 23:01:59 2005
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:01:59 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714-dm88P3lIUJm3mOxTGPmkd16hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4245A397.18690.2492FFF7@localhost>

In their JavaScript (see below), I did in fact see the following JavaScript 
code. As you can see below, LinuxElf2.2 is taken into account. It appears that 
you just need a Netscape browser.

this.redirectURL = p_sRedirectURL;
	this.compatibilityMatrix = new Array();
	this.HP_UX = "HP-UX"; //HP Unix-based machines. 
	this.MacPPC =  "MacPPC" ; //Macintosh PowerPC-based machines. 
	this.Mac68K = "Mac68K"; //Macintosh 68K-based machines. 
	this.SunOS = "SunOS"; //Solaris-based machines. 
	this.Win32 = "Win32"; //Windows 32-bit platform. 
	this.Win16 = "Win16"; //Windows 16-bit platform. 
	this.WinCE = "WinCE"; //Windows CE platform. 
	this.LinuxELF2 = "LinuxELF2.2"; // Linux ELF 2.2 platform
	this.OS = new Array(this.HP_UX,
		this.MacPPC,
		this.Mac68K,
		this.SunOS,
		this.Win32,
		this.Win16,
		this.WinCE,
		this.LinuxELF2);
	this.MSIE = "Microsoft Internet Explorer";
	this.Netscape = "Netscape";
	this.appName = new Array(this.MSIE, this.Netscape);

Paul King

On 26 Mar 2005 at 8:17, John Vetterli wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, B B wrote:
> >> I think Canada Post is blocking Linux browsers to the
> >> business site. (Netcraft says the site is run on ISS)
> > Yes I get the same problem.  Firefox 1.0 on Linux.  They cannot seriously
> > claim this is too old.
> 
> Run "wget http://obc.canadapost.ca/" and have a look at their javascript.
> 
> It looks like they explicitly specify a list of acceptable 
> platform-browser-version combinations.  If you're not on win32, macppc or 
> mac68k, or if you're not using IE or Netscape, you're out of luck.
> 
> JV
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
> 
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
> 
> 

=========================================================
Paul King            http://alimentarus.net
"Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are captains 
of our fate and masters of our soul" -- Unknown


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Mar 26 23:56:41 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:56:41 -0500
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <f9870c0105032609105f30c00b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050326072412.8971.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>	 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503260815230.7714@cruithne.localnet>	 <f9870c01050326063575fc7e31@mail.gmail.com>	 <002d01c53215$305ed330$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <f9870c0105032609105f30c00b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4245F6B9.7060909@rogers.com>

Alex Beamish wrote:

> That striokes me

How good can that Linux stuff be, if it can't spell right?  ;-)
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 00:39:01 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 19:39:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Trendnet TEW-226PC (slightly O.T.)
Message-ID: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

Hi,

Would anyone know what chipset uses the PCMCIA 802.11b TEW-226PC card?
I am trying to get a driver fot it.

BTW Trendnet seem to offer lots of Linux drivers for its wireless products.

Thanks,

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 02:08:26 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:08:26 +0000
Subject: Trendnet TEW-226PC (slightly O.T.)
In-Reply-To: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <200503270208.26208.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 27, 2005 12:39 am, Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Would anyone know what chipset uses the PCMCIA 802.11b TEW-226PC card?
> I am trying to get a driver fot it.
>
> BTW Trendnet seem to offer lots of Linux drivers for its wireless products.
>
> Thanks,
>
>  Fran?ois Ouellette
> <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
Realtek 8180 chipset

You will have to use the XP drivers under ndiswrapper

#modprobe ndiswrapper

look here for details http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/

Information from the ndiswrapper site:

Card:TP-LINK TL-WN250 (ver 2.0) PCI
Chipset: Realtek RTL8180L
pciid: 10EC:8180 Windows
Driver: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloads1-3.aspx?Keyword=8180 
version 173.


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Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 02:11:49 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:11:49 -0500
Subject: Trendnet TEW-226PC (slightly O.T.)
References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200503270208.26208.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <000601c53272$67a62750$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>


>From: "Jason Shein" <jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
>To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>Sent: Saturday, 26 March, 2005 21:08
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Trendnet TEW-226PC (slightly O.T.)
>

>Realtek 8180 chipset
>
>You will have to use the XP drivers under ndiswrapper
>
>#modprobe ndiswrapper
>
>look here for details http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/
>
>Information from the ndiswrapper site:
>
>Card:TP-LINK TL-WN250 (ver 2.0) PCI
>Chipset: Realtek RTL8180L
>pciid: 10EC:8180 Windows
>Driver: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloads1-3.aspx?Keyword=8180
>version 173.

Wow, you know your stuff!

Thanks, I will follow-up

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>


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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 03:39:39 2005
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:39:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is Canada Post discriminating against Linux?
In-Reply-To: <4245A397.18690.2492FFF7@localhost>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503260305030.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <4245A397.18690.2492FFF7@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503262237180.8688@cruithne.localnet>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Paul King wrote:
> In their JavaScript (see below), I did in fact see the following JavaScript
> code. As you can see below, LinuxElf2.2 is taken into account. It appears that
> you just need a Netscape browser.
> this.redirectURL = p_sRedirectURL;
> 	this.compatibilityMatrix = new Array();
> 	this.HP_UX = "HP-UX"; //HP Unix-based machines.
> 	this.MacPPC =  "MacPPC" ; //Macintosh PowerPC-based machines.
> 	this.Mac68K = "Mac68K"; //Macintosh 68K-based machines.
> 	this.SunOS = "SunOS"; //Solaris-based machines.
> 	this.Win32 = "Win32"; //Windows 32-bit platform.
> 	this.Win16 = "Win16"; //Windows 16-bit platform.
> 	this.WinCE = "WinCE"; //Windows CE platform.
> 	this.LinuxELF2 = "LinuxELF2.2"; // Linux ELF 2.2 platform
> 	this.OS = new Array(this.HP_UX,
> 		this.MacPPC,
> 		this.Mac68K,
> 		this.SunOS,
> 		this.Win32,
> 		this.Win16,
> 		this.WinCE,
> 		this.LinuxELF2);
> 	this.MSIE = "Microsoft Internet Explorer";
> 	this.Netscape = "Netscape";
> 	this.appName = new Array(this.MSIE, this.Netscape);

I was looking at this section of the code:

oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.5");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.0");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"6.0");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Netscape", "4.7");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Netscape", "4.8");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Netscape", "6.1");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Win32", "Netscape", "6.2");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.5");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.0");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Netscape", "4.7");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Netscape", "4.8");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Netscape", "6.1");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("MacPPC", "Netscape", "6.2");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.5");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Microsoft Internet Explorer", 
"5.0");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Netscape", "4.7");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Netscape", "4.8");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Netscape", "6.1");
oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix("Mac68K", "Netscape", "6.2");

Admittedly, I only took a brief look; I only assumed that a configuration 
needs to be added using oBC.addConfigurationToMatrix to be accepted.

JV
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 04:59:19 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:59:19 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
Message-ID: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>

  Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 05:16:15 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 00:16:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Walter Dnes wrote:

>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

Apache is not hard to setup in a basic configuration.  You could just use 
Apache with lots of the modules turned off.  This would allow you to 
expaned the functionality you use later with little trouble.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 06:27:55 2005
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:27:55 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <20050327062755.GA19927@utoronto.ca>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 12:16:15AM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Walter Dnes wrote:
> 
> >   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> > I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> > IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> > possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.
> 
> Apache is not hard to setup in a basic configuration.  You could just use 
> Apache with lots of the modules turned off.  This would allow you to 
> expaned the functionality you use later with little trouble.

just want to ditto that.  I started using apache when I first
installed debian -- even without knowing anything about linux or the
web, really, I was able to get it up and running without any real
effort.  the debian packages, at least, provide quite a bit of helpful
information as to where to look when something's not working.

matt

> 
> Rob
> 

-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot:
zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 06:37:21 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:37:21 +0000
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <200503270637.22090.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 27, 2005 04:59 am, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

Depending on what you are looking to do, ( ie: just sharing files on the 
network ) this could be a simple option: If this is from a desktop machine 
with KDE installed, use the Public File Server applet.

Right click on taskbar -> add to panel -> applet -> Pubic File Server


-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 06:39:50 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:39:50 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Robert Brockway wrote:
| On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Walter Dnes wrote:
|
|
|>  Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
|>I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
|>IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
|>possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.
|
|
| Apache is not hard to setup in a basic configuration.  You could just use
| Apache with lots of the modules turned off.  This would allow you to
| expaned the functionality you use later with little trouble.
|
| Rob
|

Slightly OT:

What web server is usually used for web-based configration UIs such as
CUPS or Webmin? Do they all use a statically-linked version of apache or
something?

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCRlU0RreNkzrRRLQRAr5ZAJ0eXZXi6Kmx9DHRMiTfRAL2orXpzgCfTj6N
L+6WkU+xdxplVhjWXJZJLus=
=ag6a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 06:47:39 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:47:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <32793.216.154.17.134.1111906059.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>


>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.
>
> --
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>

Perhaps you want to start with Apache 1.3, which is simpler than 2.0.
Not at all difficult to put together, documentation is good.
There are over 41,000,000 (known) Apache servers out there, can't go wrong
with this product!

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 07:55:08 2005
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:55:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <42465536.8020103-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766@xword.rogers.com>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Anton Markov wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Robert Brockway wrote:
> |  On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Walter Dnes wrote:
> | 
> | 
> | >  Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> | > I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> | > IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> | > possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.
> | 
> | 
> |  Apache is not hard to setup in a basic configuration.  You could just use
> |  Apache with lots of the modules turned off.  This would allow you to
> |  expaned the functionality you use later with little trouble.
> | 
> |  Rob
> | 
>
> Slightly OT:
>
> What web server is usually used for web-based configration UIs such as
> CUPS or Webmin? Do they all use a statically-linked version of apache or
> something?

     They use their own. A basic web server is not hard to write. I
     remember seeing a web server written for the Amiga that was 7
     lines of ARexx code.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 08:33:30 2005
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:33:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270331380.9812@cruithne.localnet>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, Walter Dnes wrote:
>  Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

Have a look at boa: http://www.boa.org/

JV
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From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 09:54:02 2005
From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 04:54:02 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
Message-ID: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5@mail.gmail.com>

So my school (Centennial College) offers free ISOs of popular
Microsoft products to all Information Systems students. So far I've
gotten by just fine with Debian/Ubuntu, Mono, Java, GCC and WINE. Not
bad considering how much MS has paid Centennial to set up a
homogeneous curriculum (if it weren't for that one pesky Unix course).
Anyway, I decided that it might be worthwhile to try some of my stuff
on Windows (hey, I've heard that some people actually use it for real
work!) so I head over to the department website to download my free
copy of Windows XP. Then I find out that, in order to complete the
download, you have to run the "authenticator," which comes in the form
of...
a Win32 executable.

So it's a free copy of Windows for those who already own and run
Windows. They've matched GNU/Linux on price, but have missed the mark
on ease of acquisition. I can download and burn an Ubuntu ISO on
practically any modern desktop OS. Is this really their best effort in
getting me to switch from Unix? Where's their Live CD so I can try
things out first?

This student's conclusion? Windows is not ready for the academic desktop!

-- 
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http://www.getfirefox.com/
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 11:50:14 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:50:14 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42469DF6.4000508@rogers.com>

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

>     They use their own. A basic web server is not hard to write. I
>     remember seeing a web server written for the Amiga that was 7
>     lines of ARexx code.
> 

What's wrong with people that they can't write tight code anymore?
I once wrote a useful utility, that was 5 bytes long!  ;-)

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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 12:27:58 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 07:27:58 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0503270427603c752@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:59:19 -0500, Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

I find I usually favour boa.

<http://www.boa.org/>

It is _way_ simpler to configure than Apache, even for CGI...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 13:51:26 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 08:51:26 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
References: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c532d4$2474d820$6401a8c0@pcfrancois>

From: "Mike Newman" <presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
To: "tlug" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, 27 March, 2005 4:54
Subject: [TLUG]: Windows at school, a student's perspective


> So my school (Centennial College) offers free ISOs of popular
> Microsoft products to all Information Systems students. So far I've
> gotten by just fine with Debian/Ubuntu, Mono, Java, GCC and WINE. Not
> bad considering how much MS has paid Centennial to set up a
> homogeneous curriculum (if it weren't for that one pesky Unix course).
> Anyway, I decided that it might be worthwhile to try some of my stuff
> on Windows (hey, I've heard that some people actually use it for real
> work!) so I head over to the department website to download my free
> copy of Windows XP. Then I find out that, in order to complete the
> download, you have to run the "authenticator," which comes in the form
> of...
> a Win32 executable.
>
> So it's a free copy of Windows for those who already own and run
> Windows. They've matched GNU/Linux on price, but have missed the mark
> on ease of acquisition. I can download and burn an Ubuntu ISO on
> practically any modern desktop OS. Is this really their best effort in
> getting me to switch from Unix? Where's their Live CD so I can try
> things out first?
>
> This student's conclusion? Windows is not ready for the academic desktop!

Everytime you touch anything from M$ there is a "catch", and it is usually a
program that needs to connect to their authentication web site.
>From a previous job for an employer who was a major M$ partner I have
received tons of "free" software kits but they were either all trial
versions with an expiration date or limited functionality, or those that
need "authenticating" otherwise they stop working after a while. Poisoned
gifts!

If they gave away XP people would only use it as an OS (if we can call it
that...) and install everything else open source so they would not make any
money on anything, which would miss M$ first objective: lock customers in a
system where they have to buy what they are told at a ridiculous price they
set, and have to do it every few years while having to upgrade your
hardware...

Viva Open Source!

  Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>





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From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 14:53:15 2005
From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking for business partner
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050327145315.93092.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a business idea related web database
programming. I am thinking to get a government funding
to get started. If you are interested in business,
let's have a talk. 

frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 15:06:06 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 10:06:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <200503270637.22090.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503270637.22090.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050327100524.27614B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Jason Shein wrote:
> with KDE installed, use the Public File Server applet.
> Right click on taskbar -> add to panel -> applet -> Pubic File Server

Pubic File Server, hmm...  No, let's not go there. :-)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 16:58:58 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:58:58 +0000
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050327100524.27614B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050327100524.27614B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <200503271658.59065.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 27, 2005 03:06 pm, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Jason Shein wrote:
> > with KDE installed, use the Public File Server applet.
> > Right click on taskbar -> add to panel -> applet -> Pubic File Server
>
> Pubic File Server, hmm...  No, let's not go there. :-)
>
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org
>

Yes, I hear you. But in a pinch for -temporary- use, it can work.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 16:21:45 2005
From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 11:21:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
Message-ID: <200503271621.j2RGLjKa075112@localhost.generalconcepts.com>

| ahh.  that's a great idea, I think I will do that.  (somves my main
| problem, which was how-to-cram-another-cable-into-the-wire-moulding)
| Now I just need to find a small, cheap hub that I can mount
| unobtrusively on the wall somehow (suggestions?).

I keep thinking: buy bigger wiremold.  Or more of it.

3com makes a series of switches that mount in the wall in a
wiring box.  Perhaps not the nice cheap solution you want,
but definitely the neatest.  Old pres release here:
    http://ca.3com.com/news/releases/pr02/oct2802.html
but try ebay ...

John
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 17:09:52 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:09:52 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20050327170952.GB2292@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 11:59:19PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

Use whatever you have, and keep the configuration basic or "default".

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 17:37:56 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:37:56 -0500
Subject: intelligent comparison of strings in Perl
In-Reply-To: <4245E63D.3070608-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4242DFDE.7000809@rogers.com> <4242E6F3.7040303@truxtar.com> <4242F4D1.5090206@rogers.com> <42431054.4090009@truxtar.com> <4245BF85.50300@rogers.com> <4245D99A.8010803@istop.com> <4245E63D.3070608@almatau.com>
Message-ID: <4246EF74.7020908@istop.com>

Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> ...
> 
>>
>> I suspect that there are "wiser" Perl modules around there. I would 
>> like to compare if two very similar strings are bearing in fact the 
>> same information (with some probabilty, of course, despite they are 
>> "different" strings).
> 
> 
> "The same information" depends on context.  Two strings
> contain "Toronto" and "Calgary".  Do they contain the same info?
> No - these are different cities.
> Yes - both are good as an example of Canadian city.
> 
> The module you need is String::AI
> :-)

String::AI is excellent in cases when some advanced comparison is needed ;)

In many cases it is sufficient however to use simpler methods. Their 
advantage is that it is easier to understand the code.

I found for instance that String::Similarity works very well for me.

One could try also, depanding on needs, one or more of the following:

String::Approx;
Algorithm::Diff
Text::Levenshtein
Text::WagnerFischer
Text::PhraseDistance
String::Compare

zb.


> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


-- 
Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions
Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking
Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780
Toronto,  Canada,  http://www.softquake.ca,  info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 17:51:02 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:51:02 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <200503271658.59065.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050327100524.27614B-100000@spsystems.net>
	 <200503271658.59065.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f05032709513b6138b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:58:58 +0000, Jason Shein
<jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On March 27, 2005 03:06 pm, Henry Spencer wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Jason Shein wrote:
> > > with KDE installed, use the Public File Server applet.
> > > Right click on taskbar -> add to panel -> applet -> Pubic File Server
> >
> > Pubic File Server, hmm...  No, let's not go there. :-)
> 
> Yes, I hear you. But in a pinch for -temporary- use, it can work.

I don't particularly ever want to see the word "pinch" used in this
particular context...

Not interested in touching it with a pole any particular number of
inches long...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 18:08:05 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:08:05 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
Message-ID: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello everyone,

I am looking for a mail archive -> HTML and/or mailing list software.

For this one project I am working on, we have been communicating by
simply hitting the reply-all button. But now I want to preserve those
e-mails (they are all in a local Thunderbird folder) and any future
communication in a web-based HTML archive.

So far I have looked at two possibilities:
- - Various "Groups" services such as Google Groups, Yahoo! Groups, etc.
However, they don't provide an option to upload old messages.
- - Setting up a mailing list manager such as GNU Mailman. However, that
seems like an overkill, and I don't want to set up a mail server (what
what I've heard, it's a pain).

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
- - Is there a web-based service that will let me upload old archives (the
information is not sensitive, but has to remain private)?
- - Is there a simple program to generate web-archives of e-mail messages?
- - Can GNU Mailman or similar mailing list manager run in archive-only 
mode?
- - Can I use GNU Mailman or similar program with a POP3 account (and
sending via SMTP), so I can use a separate GMAIL account to receive the
message?


Thanks!

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCRvaDRreNkzrRRLQRAjIWAJsF6LgEhj2dok7VN9JNueesc8jGdgCdGuky
hbDX1n+PJN6XdMiGvUy629o=
=Uq0A
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 12:06:08 2005
From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 07:06:08 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20050327183635.CDDF11D0D9B@outbox.allstream.net>

On March 26, 2005 11:59 pm, you wrote:
>   Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
> I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
> IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
> possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.

You might try this Tcl/Tk version:
http://www.tcl.tk/software/tclhttpd/

bob
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 18:38:09 2005
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:38:09 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200503271338.10084.marc@lijour.net>

On March 27, 2005 04:54 am, Mike Newman wrote:
> So my school (Centennial College) offers free ISOs of popular
> Microsoft products to all Information Systems students. So far I've
> gotten by just fine with Debian/Ubuntu, Mono, Java, GCC and WINE. Not
> bad considering how much MS has paid Centennial to set up a
> homogeneous curriculum (if it weren't for that one pesky Unix course).
> Anyway, I decided that it might be worthwhile to try some of my stuff
> on Windows (hey, I've heard that some people actually use it for real
> work!) so I head over to the department website to download my free
> copy of Windows XP. Then I find out that, in order to complete the
> download, you have to run the "authenticator," which comes in the form
> of...
> a Win32 executable.
>
> So it's a free copy of Windows for those who already own and run
> Windows. They've matched GNU/Linux on price, but have missed the mark
> on ease of acquisition. I can download and burn an Ubuntu ISO on
> practically any modern desktop OS. Is this really their best effort in
> getting me to switch from Unix? Where's their Live CD so I can try
> things out first?
>
> This student's conclusion? Windows is not ready for the academic desktop!

An educator note: can you call yourself an educational institution where from 
the start you have predetermined what the students must think, what they must 
love and what they must do?
Learning is not about making people repeat after you, it is more about giving 
them the BEST opportunity to fully express their inner potential.

Final line. What kind of society do we get when we tell people what they must 
think and how they must think?
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 20:31:48 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:31:48 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <200503271338.10084.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5@mail.gmail.com> <200503271338.10084.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <42471834.4060009@rogers.com>

Marc Lijour wrote:


> Final line. What kind of society do we get when we tell people what they must 
> think and how they must think?

WE ARE THE BORG.  YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.  RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.   ;-)
--
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 21:38:44 2005
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:38:44 -0500
Subject: Looking for business partner
In-Reply-To: <20050327145315.93092.qmail-P9yqBGbbmvKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327145315.93092.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503271638.45000.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com>

On March 27, 2005 09:53, you wrote:
> I have a business idea related web database
> programming. I am thinking to get a government funding
> to get started. If you are interested in business,
> let's have a talk.

Hi Frank,

I am always interested in business and have more than a few ideas of my own, 
in addition to having the technical and entrepreneurial capabilities that are 
necessary for success. Perhaps we can get together for lunch and discuss 
further.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

+1 416-410-3326
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 22:21:31 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:21:31 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <4246F685.2020708-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 01:08:05PM -0500, Anton Markov wrote:
> - - Various "Groups" services such as Google Groups, Yahoo! Groups, etc.
> However, they don't provide an option to upload old messages.

What's wrong with simply "resending" them through Yahoo Groups.  It'll
be automatically archived.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 00:58:16 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 19:58:16 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <42471834.4060009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 03:31:48PM -0500
References: <eb26f96e0503270154780017c5@mail.gmail.com> <200503271338.10084.marc@lijour.net> <42471834.4060009@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050327195816.B7144@ee.ryerson.ca>


It would be useful if the person who initiated this topic advised Centennial
(in writing) what specific linux programs could be used in the various
courses. They may not be aware that there are alternatives to Microsoft. For
example, there may be alternatives to the database and networking software
that the college is currently using, and they may not be aware of that.

I do know that Centennial is undergoing a detailed study of that curriculum
and they are receptive to suggestions. Because things change so quickly in
this area, students are likely to be as or even more familiar with the
current 'state of the art' in available programs, as their instructors are.
Moreover, the economic argument carries weight these days. Colleges are
strapped for cash and Microsoft is an expensive habit. The fact that
students can take open software appart and see how it works is another
attraction.

Electrical and Computer Engineering at Ryerson uses Linux and Unix software
to the extent that it is possible. But there are some examples of software
that are simply not available to run directly under Linux. (CAD software
from Xilinx for their FPGA devices, for example. This is a major pain
because Xilinx seem to require the latest and 'greatest' version of
Windows.)

My experience is that it is our students who prefer to use Microsoft in
general, and the educational experience exposes them to the alternatives.
That is why multiplatform software - which will run under Linux or Microsoft
- is attractive in the teaching environment.

Peter H.


On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 03:31:48PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> Marc Lijour wrote:
> 
> 
> > Final line. What kind of society do we get when we tell people what they
> > must think and how they must think?
> 
> WE ARE THE BORG.  YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.  RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.   ;-)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 01:42:07 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:42:07 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <20050327222131.GA1919-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com> <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <424760EF.7040808@truxtar.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 01:08:05PM -0500, Anton Markov wrote:
> 
>>- - Various "Groups" services such as Google Groups, Yahoo! Groups, etc.
>>However, they don't provide an option to upload old messages.
> 
> 
> What's wrong with simply "resending" them through Yahoo Groups.  It'll
> be automatically archived.

Now there's an idea I haven't considered. The only problem I can see is 
loosing the From, Date, and other headers. But I suppose that I could 
forward the message to the group, in which case it would still contain 
all that information. Or I could fake the From and Date headers somehow.

Anyways, thanks for the idea!


-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 02:37:18 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 21:37:18 -0500
Subject: Apache, Virtual Hosts, Linux hosts file
Message-ID: <42476DDE.3070807@rogers.com>

I have a Linux box (Mandrake 10.1) running Apache 2.0.

I am using it for testing of PHP-MySQL  scripts.

I have it working, but I had to map the virtual urls to the Linux box's 
ip address in the Linux hosts file.

I am using a web browser on another machine on my network. If I do not 
have the entries in the Linux box's hosts file, I get the default Apache 
welcome page.

I am not using DNS, just entries in the hosts file on the machine I am 
running the browser on.

Why do I need the entry in the Linux box's hosts file? I am considering 
the possibility that I have a configuration problem. She not the entry 
in the VHosts.conf file for the virtual hosts be sufficient?

I am not trying to use a browser on the Linux box!

Thanks in advance!
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From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 02:50:11 2005
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 21:50:11 -0500
Subject: Apache, Virtual Hosts, Linux hosts file
In-Reply-To: <42476DDE.3070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42476DDE.3070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <424770E3.7060804@istop.com>

Stephen wrote:
> I have a Linux box (Mandrake 10.1) running Apache 2.0.
> 
> I am using it for testing of PHP-MySQL  scripts.
> 
> I have it working, but I had to map the virtual urls to the Linux box's 
> ip address in the Linux hosts file.
> 
> I am using a web browser on another machine on my network. If I do not 
> have the entries in the Linux box's hosts file, I get the default Apache 
> welcome page.
> 
> I am not using DNS, just entries in the hosts file on the machine I am 
> running the browser on.
> 
> Why do I need the entry in the Linux box's hosts file? I am considering 
> the possibility that I have a configuration problem. She not the entry 
> in the VHosts.conf file for the virtual hosts be sufficient?

How your browser is supposed to know otherwise where to send request if 
you do not use DNS entries?

> I am not trying to use a browser on the Linux box!


So, windows, heh?

zb.

> 
> Thanks in advance!


-- 
Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions
Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking
Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780
Toronto,  Canada,  http://www.softquake.ca,  info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 03:39:15 2005
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:39:15 -0500
Subject: Apache, Virtual Hosts, Linux hosts file
In-Reply-To: <424770E3.7060804-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <42476DDE.3070807@rogers.com> <424770E3.7060804@istop.com>
Message-ID: <42477C63.1000307@rogers.com>

Zbigniew Koziol wrote:

> Stephen wrote:
>
>> I have a Linux box (Mandrake 10.1) running Apache 2.0.
>>
>> I am using it for testing of PHP-MySQL  scripts.
>>
>> I have it working, but I had to map the virtual urls to the Linux 
>> box's ip address in the Linux hosts file.
>>
>> I am using a web browser on another machine on my network. If I do 
>> not have the entries in the Linux box's hosts file, I get the default 
>> Apache welcome page.
>>
>> I am not using DNS, just entries in the hosts file on the machine I 
>> am running the browser on.
>>
>> Why do I need the entry in the Linux box's hosts file? I am 
>> considering the possibility that I have a configuration problem. She 
>> not the entry in the VHosts.conf file for the virtual hosts be 
>> sufficient?
>
>
> How your browser is supposed to know otherwise where to send request 
> if you do not use DNS entries?
>
>> I am not trying to use a browser on the Linux box!
>
>
>
> So, windows, heh?

OS/2 actually. But I will test on Windows as well when the time is right.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 04:22:06 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:22:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <200503271338.10084.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503271338.10084.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050327230955.4989A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Marc Lijour wrote:
> ...can you call yourself an educational institution where from 
> the start you have predetermined what the students must think, what they must 
> love and what they must do?

That describes the majority of our educational institutions, actually... 

> Final line. What kind of society do we get when we tell people what they must 
> think and how they must think?

A society much like our present one.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 06:32:19 2005
From: kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B B)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050328063219.16548.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com>

> > ...can you call yourself an educational
> institution where from 
> > the start you have predetermined what the students
> must think, what they must 
> > love and what they must do?
> That describes the majority of our educational
> institutions, actually... 
> > Final line. What kind of society do we get when we
> tell people what they must 
> > think and how they must think?
> 
> A society much like our present one.

Hey hey! Don't feel so bad. School has really never
been a place of innovation and it is rarely set up to
be one either, by and large it is a processing plant
not too different from where the Colonel gets his
chickens. Once and a while something miraculous
happens and genius is recognized or an innovation is
accepted but those are few and far between. You, (Us!)
must be persistent and use our best weapon, our brains
and our voices to gain world domination. 

Thanks for the update of the other side. When I go to
the install-fests I get the impression free software
is growing on campus and that people love it. When I
meet students at the meetings or read the Linux news
sites I get the same feeling so to hear this from a
student reminds me there is still work to be done and
very little of that work is programming. Remember,  WE
ARE WINNING.

Publicly funded Schools should, of course use open
file formats and not force you to submit work in
proprietary file formats. If M$ wants those programs
in schools it should be forced to GPL the code but
instead it looks like it has chosen to bribe the
schools and deceive the students with pretend
innovation and con man offers.

Just my 2??,
Cameron



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 06:35:07 2005
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:35:07 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0503270427603c752-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <d6d6637f0503270427603c752@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050328063507.GA7978@waltdnes.org>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 07:27:58AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote

> I find I usually favour boa.
> 
> <http://www.boa.org/>
> 
> It is _way_ simpler to configure than Apache, even for CGI...

  Thanks.  Looks interesting.  A release candidate issued Feb 25, so it
is maintained.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
--
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 07:40:05 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:40:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Apache, Virtual Hosts, Linux hosts file
In-Reply-To: <42476DDE.3070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42476DDE.3070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503280237500.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, Stephen wrote:

> I have a Linux box (Mandrake 10.1) running Apache 2.0.
> 
> I am using it for testing of PHP-MySQL  scripts.
> 
> I have it working, but I had to map the virtual urls to the Linux box's ip
> address in the Linux hosts file.

If you are using name based virtual hosts (almost certainly the case) then 
this is working correctly.  Apache figures out which virtual host you want 
based on the information passed to it in the HTTP header (specifically, 
the site that the user wants to see).

Rob
 

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 09:49:47 2005
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 04:49:47 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <20050328063219.16548.qmail-DLP6cPHwfF6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050328063219.16548.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200503280449.47438.marc@lijour.net>

On March 28, 2005 01:32 am, B B wrote:
> > > ...can you call yourself an educational
> >
> > institution where from
> >
> > > the start you have predetermined what the students
> >
> > must think, what they must
> >
> > > love and what they must do?
> >
> > That describes the majority of our educational
> > institutions, actually...
> >
> > > Final line. What kind of society do we get when we
> >
> > tell people what they must
> >
> > > think and how they must think?
> >
> > A society much like our present one.
>
> Hey hey! Don't feel so bad. School has really never
> been a place of innovation and it is rarely set up to
> be one either, by and large it is a processing plant
> not too different from where the Colonel gets his
> chickens.

I feel that it is sad to think this way.
btw, Linux does not come from a student doing some kind of OS assignment?

> Once and a while something miraculous 
> happens and genius is recognized or an innovation is
> accepted but those are few and far between. You, (Us!)
> must be persistent and use our best weapon, our brains
> and our voices to gain world domination.
>
> Thanks for the update of the other side. When I go to
> the install-fests I get the impression free software
> is growing on campus and that people love it. When I
> meet students at the meetings or read the Linux news
> sites I get the same feeling so to hear this from a
> student reminds me there is still work to be done and
> very little of that work is programming. Remember,  WE
> ARE WINNING.

Awareness is growing.

> Publicly funded Schools should, of course use open
> file formats and not force you to submit work in
> proprietary file formats. If M$ wants those programs
> in schools it should be forced to GPL the code but
> instead it looks like it has chosen to bribe the
> schools and deceive the students with pretend
> innovation and con man offers.

Public schools use software given for free by the Ontario Ministry of 
Education and that includes WordPerfect and StarOffice. But the latest is too 
recent and most staff training is done on Corel's product.

The irony is that the administrative staff use MS office.

It depends on what you mean by free. You can read MS Office XML publicly 
avaiable now.
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 14:16:08 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:16:08 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <42443577.2050807-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com> <42443577.2050807@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <200503280916.08829.m-cahill@rogers.com>

On March 25, 2005 10:59 am, Anton Markov wrote:
>
> First of all, I would stick with the RJ45 Ethernet connection for a
> number of reasons, not the least of which is lower CPU load. It's also a
> lot more standardized/stable/older so problems are easier to fix (I have
> no idea how the USB connection works, for instance).
>
> I think that your network interface is simply not being activated (since
> your computer still thinks you are connecting through USB). Which
> distribution are you using?
>
> Try running 'ifup eth0' or whatever ethernet port your modem is
> connected to, right after restarting the computer. If the internet works
> afterwards, then the interface is simply not being activated. Check in
> /etc/network(ing) for a file called 'interfaces' or whatever equivalent
> your distribution uses. I should have an entry similar to:
>
> auto eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
> ...
>
> The part below the 'iface' line may be different (you probably have dhcp
> rather than static IP).
>
> The 'auto eth0' line is the key. It tells your computer to activate the
> interface when your computer starts. Add the line if it's missing, and
> try again.
>
> --
> Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>


Thanks Anton,

  As it turned out, after moving this weekend, my ethernet card kacked.  So, 
in the end, it's hard to say whether it was the system configuration or the 
card.  The new card is solid, and the connection is fine.
  I did check the interfaces file, and sure enough 'auto eth0' was there.  

  Thanks again for your help.

Matt

-- 
Matt Cahill
             m dash cahill at rogers dot com
--
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From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 14:28:21 2005
From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:28:21 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <200503280916.08829.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com>
	 <42443577.2050807@truxtar.com>
	 <200503280916.08829.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4386c5b205032806286792ac84@mail.gmail.com>

Matt,
It's clear that the problem is, therefore, space monkeys. As any Linux
hacker with m4d skillz will tell you, in this situation the only
answer is to secure a supply of "space bananas" and  set them up in a
farraday cage made of pipe cleaners. Within moments the space monkeys
will pop out of your computer, wearing their space monkey helmets and
making their space monkey sounds, into your farraday cage. After all,
space monkeys prefer chewing on space bananas over hapless ethernet
cards. Once captured, space monkeys make a great wall display and will
impress your geek friends when they visit. It might even score you
some ladies.

In case it's not space monkeys, though, my technique has always been
to take the opportunity to switch distros. For example, if it's been a
while since I've used Gentoo, I'd take the new release that came out
today as my signal. :-)

Cheers,
Aaron.


On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:16:08 -0500, Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On March 25, 2005 10:59 am, Anton Markov wrote:
> >
> > First of all, I would stick with the RJ45 Ethernet connection for a
> > number of reasons, not the least of which is lower CPU load. It's also a
> > lot more standardized/stable/older so problems are easier to fix (I have
> > no idea how the USB connection works, for instance).
> >
> > I think that your network interface is simply not being activated (since
> > your computer still thinks you are connecting through USB). Which
> > distribution are you using?
> >
> > Try running 'ifup eth0' or whatever ethernet port your modem is
> > connected to, right after restarting the computer. If the internet works
> > afterwards, then the interface is simply not being activated. Check in
> > /etc/network(ing) for a file called 'interfaces' or whatever equivalent
> > your distribution uses. I should have an entry similar to:
> >
> > auto eth0
> > iface eth0 inet static
> > ...
> >
> > The part below the 'iface' line may be different (you probably have dhcp
> > rather than static IP).
> >
> > The 'auto eth0' line is the key. It tells your computer to activate the
> > interface when your computer starts. Add the line if it's missing, and
> > try again.
> >
> > --
> > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>
> 
> Thanks Anton,
> 
>   As it turned out, after moving this weekend, my ethernet card kacked.  So,
> in the end, it's hard to say whether it was the system configuration or the
> card.  The new card is solid, and the connection is fine.
>   I did check the interfaces file, and sure enough 'auto eth0' was there.
> 
>   Thanks again for your help.
> 
> Matt
> 
> --
> Matt Cahill
>              m dash cahill at rogers dot com
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 15:57:57 2005
From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:57:57 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <424760EF.7040808-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>
	 <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <424760EF.7040808@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <d757b3e0050328075734cc36c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:42:07 -0500, Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> Now there's an idea I haven't considered. The only problem I can see is
> loosing the From, Date, and other headers. But I suppose that I could
> forward the message to the group, in which case it would still contain
> all that information. Or I could fake the From and Date headers somehow.

mutt has a "bounce" feature ('b' for bounce) that simply remails the message
with a new destination (but leaves all the other headers unchanged).  As far
as I can tell it's indistinguishable from the message simply hitting another
mailserver along the way (a very normal thing).  It perserves all of the headers
including the date, To:, and From:.

I don't know if Thunderbird has the same feature, though.  You might look into
procmail, and/or may have to convert the Thunderbird mailbox into a standard
mbox/mailbox/maildir format if it's not already in such a format.

-- 
taa
/*eof*/
--
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:01:00 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <200503280449.47438.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503280449.47438.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050328105856.13295B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Marc Lijour wrote:
> > > > What kind of society do we get when we tell people what they must
> > > > think and how they must think?
> > > A society much like our present one.
> > ...School has really never
> > been a place of innovation and it is rarely set up to
> > be one either, by and large it is a processing plant...
> 
> I feel that it is sad to think this way.

Sad, perhaps, but also realistic.  One should understand the situation
before trying to change it. 

> btw, Linux does not come from a student doing some kind of OS assignment?

No, Linux was a spare-time project, not an assignment.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:14:04 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:14:04 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <20050328063219.16548.qmail-DLP6cPHwfF6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050328063219.16548.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42482D4C.10900@rogers.com>

B B wrote:

> 
> Publicly funded Schools should, of course use open
> file formats and not force you to submit work in
> proprietary file formats. If M$ wants those programs
> in schools it should be forced to GPL the code but
> instead it looks like it has chosen to bribe the
> schools and deceive the students with pretend
> innovation and con man offers.

Supposedly, students in Ontario schools are supposed to be using Star 
Office at school and OpenOffice at home.  However, I haven't heard of 
anyone using it.  Is it there yet?
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Mar 27 18:14:06 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:14:06 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <42469DF6.4000508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766@xword.rogers.com> <42469DF6.4000508@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503272013330.6522@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, James Knott wrote:

> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>
>>     They use their own. A basic web server is not hard to write. I
>>     remember seeing a web server written for the Amiga that was 7
>>     lines of ARexx code.
>> 
>
> What's wrong with people that they can't write tight code anymore?
> I once wrote a useful utility, that was 5 bytes long!  ;-)

Beyond laughs, there is an example perl web server that is no more than 
12 lines. It's in the perl coding examples.

Peter
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:30:53 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:30:53 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503272013330.6522-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766@xword.rogers.com> <42469DF6.4000508@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503272013330.6522@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <4248313D.5010204@rogers.com>

Peter wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2005, James Knott wrote:
> 
>> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>     They use their own. A basic web server is not hard to write. I
>>>     remember seeing a web server written for the Amiga that was 7
>>>     lines of ARexx code.
>>>
>>
>> What's wrong with people that they can't write tight code anymore?
>> I once wrote a useful utility, that was 5 bytes long!  ;-)
> 
> 
> Beyond laughs, there is an example perl web server that is no more than 
> 12 lines. It's in the perl coding examples.

The purpose of the utility I wrote, was simply to return an error code 
of zero.  Someone else was trying to write a batch file (DOS) and needed 
to reset the error code.  It was quite simple to create it using debug. 
  I also tried it in C, but the resulting code was somewhere around 4 or 
5 KB!

Also, years ago in Byte Magazine, they'd occasionally have a contest, to 
see who could write the smallest amount of code, to perform some 
function.  The one I recall, was to write zeros to all of memory.
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:32:42 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Re:Windows at school, a student's perspective]
Message-ID: <424831AA.9060703@rogers.com>

Forwarded to the list.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Windows at school, a student's perspective
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:26:06 -0500
From: George Fiala <george.fiala-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: George Fiala <george.fiala-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
To: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
References: <20050328063219.16548.qmail-DLP6cPHwfF6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9 at public.gmane.org>	 
<42482D4C.10900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

posting to you, because for some reason tlug is not recognizing this
address (again).

at my daughters school (neil c. matheson), they had no idea what the
hell i was talking about when i said that i heard they are going to be
using staroffice / openoffice.  the computer teacher knew the programs
but he has not been told to implement them, as yet.

not that it matters to my daughter, she has been using OOo/SO for a
number of years.

but other kids have no idea what the hell is going on.

george.


On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:14:04 -0500, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> 
wrote:
> B B wrote:
> 
> >
> > Publicly funded Schools should, of course use open
> > file formats and not force you to submit work in
> > proprietary file formats. If M$ wants those programs
> > in schools it should be forced to GPL the code but
> > instead it looks like it has chosen to bribe the
> > schools and deceive the students with pretend
> > innovation and con man offers.
> 
> Supposedly, students in Ontario schools are supposed to be using Star
> Office at school and OpenOffice at home.  However, I haven't heard of
> anyone using it.  Is it there yet?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


-- 
______________________________________
G e o r g e  F i a l a
IQ PARTNERS Inc.

T  416.599.4700 (224)
E  fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org
ICQ:  259 468 580
Yahoo:  brainwrx1

We connect smart people and great companies.
______________________________________

IQ Partners helps intelligent companies hire better, hire less &
retain more.  Our services include Executive Search, Qualification &
Assessment, Employee Development, Career Management, HR Consulting and
Contract HR Services.  We specialize in Marketing, Communications,
Media, Technology and Financial Services and operate at the
mid-to-senior management level.  IQ Partners has offices in Toronto
and Ottawa and is a member of the Aravati Global Search Network.  For
more information, please visit www.IQPartners.com
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:36:17 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <42482D4C.10900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050328063219.16548.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com> <42482D4C.10900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42483281.4040400@truxtar.com>

James Knott wrote:
> B B wrote:
> 
>>
>> Publicly funded Schools should, of course use open
>> file formats and not force you to submit work in
>> proprietary file formats. If M$ wants those programs
>> in schools it should be forced to GPL the code but
>> instead it looks like it has chosen to bribe the
>> schools and deceive the students with pretend
>> innovation and con man offers.
> 
> 
> Supposedly, students in Ontario schools are supposed to be using Star 
> Office at school and OpenOffice at home.  However, I haven't heard of 
> anyone using it.  Is it there yet?

Most computers in our school have either Corel WordPerfect Suit, 
Microsoft Office 97, or both, but now StarOffice. Incidently, Corel 
WordPerfect is so incompatible with anything else out there, that only 
those computer with MS Office are usable; what an irony.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
--
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 16:43:14 2005
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:43:14 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <d757b3e0050328075734cc36c5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>	 <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net>	 <424760EF.7040808@truxtar.com> <d757b3e0050328075734cc36c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42483422.9020709@truxtar.com>

Taavi Burns wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:42:07 -0500, Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>Anton Markov wrote:
>>Now there's an idea I haven't considered. The only problem I can see is
>>loosing the From, Date, and other headers. But I suppose that I could
>>forward the message to the group, in which case it would still contain
>>all that information. Or I could fake the From and Date headers somehow.
> 
> 
> mutt has a "bounce" feature ('b' for bounce) that simply remails the message
> with a new destination (but leaves all the other headers unchanged).  As far
> as I can tell it's indistinguishable from the message simply hitting another
> mailserver along the way (a very normal thing).  It perserves all of the headers
> including the date, To:, and From:.
> 
> I don't know if Thunderbird has the same feature, though.  You might look into
> procmail, and/or may have to convert the Thunderbird mailbox into a standard
> mbox/mailbox/maildir format if it's not already in such a format.
> 

Thanks for the tip. Does anyone know which format Thunderbird uses, and 
how I can get it into mutt or some other 'traditional' format? The 
messages all appear to be stored in a single large file, seperated only 
by their own headers. Is that what is called "mbox"? (sorry, I am new to 
this low-level e-mail thing).

Thanks.


-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 17:15:17 2005
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:15:17 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <42483422.9020709-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com> <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net> <424760EF.7040808@truxtar.com> <d757b3e0050328075734cc36c5@mail.gmail.com> <42483422.9020709@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20050328171517.GA13561@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 11:43:14AM -0500, Anton Markov wrote (when it
was suggested that Mutt's "bounce" feature may be of use):

>Thanks for the tip. Does anyone know which format Thunderbird uses, and 
>how I can get it into mutt or some other 'traditional' format? The 
>messages all appear to be stored in a single large file, seperated only 
>by their own headers. Is that what is called "mbox"? (sorry, I am new to 
>this low-level e-mail thing).

One way to check is to attempt to open that file with Mutt.  Odds are
it's an mbox file.
-- 

yours,

William

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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 17:30:23 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:30:23 +0000
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <20050328171517.GA13561-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com> <42483422.9020709@truxtar.com> <20050328171517.GA13561@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200503281730.23367.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 28, 2005 05:15 pm, William O'Higgins wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 11:43:14AM -0500, Anton Markov wrote (when it
>
> was suggested that Mutt's "bounce" feature may be of use):
> >Thanks for the tip. Does anyone know which format Thunderbird uses, and
> >how I can get it into mutt or some other 'traditional' format? The
> >messages all appear to be stored in a single large file, seperated only
> >by their own headers. Is that what is called "mbox"? (sorry, I am new to
> >this low-level e-mail thing).
>
> One way to check is to attempt to open that file with Mutt.  Odds are
> it's an mbox file.

http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.5/faq/mail-news.html#export

mbox format is used.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
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From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 19:19:35 2005
From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:19:35 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <4386c5b205032806286792ac84-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com>
	 <42443577.2050807@truxtar.com>
	 <200503280916.08829.m-cahill@rogers.com>
	 <4386c5b205032806286792ac84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b912425c05032811197ccab67a@mail.gmail.com>

Aaron, 
You are my new hero!
I've always suspected that it was deamons / spirits, but now I know
it's the space monkeys.
-Joseph-


On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:28:21 -0500, Aaron Vegh <aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Matt,
> It's clear that the problem is, therefore, space monkeys. As any Linux
> hacker with m4d skillz will tell you, in this situation the only
> answer is to secure a supply of "space bananas" and  set them up in a
> farraday cage made of pipe cleaners. Within moments the space monkeys
> will pop out of your computer, wearing their space monkey helmets and
> making their space monkey sounds, into your farraday cage. After all,
> space monkeys prefer chewing on space bananas over hapless ethernet
> cards. Once captured, space monkeys make a great wall display and will
> impress your geek friends when they visit. It might even score you
> some ladies.
> 
> In case it's not space monkeys, though, my technique has always been
> to take the opportunity to switch distros. For example, if it's been a
> while since I've used Gentoo, I'd take the new release that came out
> today as my signal. :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Aaron.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:16:08 -0500, Matt Cahill <m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On March 25, 2005 10:59 am, Anton Markov wrote:
> > >
> > > First of all, I would stick with the RJ45 Ethernet connection for a
> > > number of reasons, not the least of which is lower CPU load. It's also a
> > > lot more standardized/stable/older so problems are easier to fix (I have
> > > no idea how the USB connection works, for instance).
> > >
> > > I think that your network interface is simply not being activated (since
> > > your computer still thinks you are connecting through USB). Which
> > > distribution are you using?
> > >
> > > Try running 'ifup eth0' or whatever ethernet port your modem is
> > > connected to, right after restarting the computer. If the internet works
> > > afterwards, then the interface is simply not being activated. Check in
> > > /etc/network(ing) for a file called 'interfaces' or whatever equivalent
> > > your distribution uses. I should have an entry similar to:
> > >
> > > auto eth0
> > > iface eth0 inet static
> > > ...
> > >
> > > The part below the 'iface' line may be different (you probably have dhcp
> > > rather than static IP).
> > >
> > > The 'auto eth0' line is the key. It tells your computer to activate the
> > > interface when your computer starts. Add the line if it's missing, and
> > > try again.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>
> >
> > Thanks Anton,
> >
> >   As it turned out, after moving this weekend, my ethernet card kacked.  So,
> > in the end, it's hard to say whether it was the system configuration or the
> > card.  The new card is solid, and the connection is fine.
> >   I did check the interfaces file, and sure enough 'auto eth0' was there.
> >
> >   Thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --
> > Matt Cahill
> >              m dash cahill at rogers dot com
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:08:49 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:08:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <42483422.9020709-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>  <20050327222131.GA1919@node1.opengeometry.net>
  <424760EF.7040808@truxtar.com> <d757b3e0050328075734cc36c5@mail.gmail.com>
 <42483422.9020709@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503282206380.9010@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>



On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Anton Markov wrote:

> Thanks for the tip. Does anyone know which format Thunderbird uses, and how I 
> can get it into mutt or some other 'traditional' format? The messages all 
> appear to be stored in a single large file, seperated only by their own 
> headers. Is that what is called "mbox"? (sorry, I am new to this low-level 
> e-mail thing).

That's the unix mailbox format. The file stored under 
/var/spool/mail/$USER has the same format if you are not using a MTA 
with maildir option.

To split such a file into individual messages, try formail (from the 
procmail package). Web mail archives can be made from the messages using 
a variety of tools, like Hypermail (search the web for more).

Peter
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:16:59 2005
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
Message-ID: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>

Hello all

Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
how-to's?.
A static IP number would be helpful.

-- 
Sincerely,
Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:10:35 2005
From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:10:35 -0500
Subject: Windows at school, a student's perspective
In-Reply-To: <42482D4C.10900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050328063219.16548.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <42482D4C.10900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <96aa4e8f050328121041221034@mail.gmail.com>

Windows is entrenched in schools for a few reasons:

1. It is familiar to most users and thus any upgrade or change can
happen without any or any major re-training. The IT Dept. knows how to
support it, because it has been about the only thing they have ever
supported (and a few Macs now and then).

2. size and support.
School boards can get proprietary software for free from the ministry
of education or they can buy it for extremely cheap.
If anything goes wrong, the computer is simply reimaged using the
standard IT image. At this point, support isn't a strong reason to
switch.

3.The OS is only viewed as a delivery system for applications. When so
much of the curriculum is designed around Windows-based products, such
as the ubiquitous Geometer's Sketchpad (everywhere in math courses),
going with anything but Windows seems unwise. Although many programs
will work under Wine, the requirement is for all of them to work,
effectively shutting Linux out. Macs seem to have their place in some
arts courses and the rare computer lab.

In the end, if everything seems to work, IT won't change a thing.
When students get to university/college, most will continue to use Windows.
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:31:45 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:31:45 -0500
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <1112041019.2649.132.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <424869B1.1080709@rogers.com>

Alan Cohen wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
> connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
> who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
> how-to's?.
> A static IP number would be helpful.
> 

Rogers has the GPRS service, but I don't think it comes cheap.  I'd be 
surprised if static IPs are available.  You can either use PCMCIA cards 
or an appropriate cell phone.

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:39:11 2005
From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:39:11 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <4248313D.5010204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net>
	 <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503270253290.18766@xword.rogers.com>
	 <42469DF6.4000508@rogers.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503272013330.6522@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <4248313D.5010204@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <d757b3e0050328123949098d28@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:30:53 -0500, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Peter wrote:
> The purpose of the utility I wrote, was simply to return an error code
> of zero.  Someone else was trying to write a batch file (DOS) and needed
> to reset the error code.  It was quite simple to create it using debug.
>   I also tried it in C, but the resulting code was somewhere around 4 or
> 5 KB!
> 
> Also, years ago in Byte Magazine, they'd occasionally have a contest, to
> see who could write the smallest amount of code, to perform some
> function.  The one I recall, was to write zeros to all of memory.

Oh, the demo scene is still quite alive and kicking:
http://www.256b.com

Linux isn't exactly left out, even if it's not all that popular:
http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html (how it's done)
http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/ (bunch of apps)

And while I'm at it, I must confess to at least a passing interest in the art of
form-over-content:
http://www.ioccc.org

-- 
taa
/*eof*/
--
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From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:43:22 2005
From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Ray Payne)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:43:22 -0500
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <1112041019.2649.132.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <BIECJAHDHNAGOGDPOEKLOELLCCAA.ray@pcrepairs.com>

I'm new to the list, by no means am I up on working in Linux (yet).

For about $45 a month I use the Fido unlimited internet access.  (with extra
fees, about $55 a month.)  You can't get a static IP, but you can use DynDNS
if need be.  I don't do this on a Linux box, but I do have it as a backup
for one of my servers in the event of an internet connection failure.  If
you're not moving it anywhere or don't need the ability to text message
(only reason it's on my server, internet is just extra) then a dial up line
is both cheaper and faster than GSM/GPRS.

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Alan
Cohen
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 3:17 PM
To: TLUG
Subject: [TLUG]: Cellular Internet backup connection


Hello all

Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
how-to's?.
A static IP number would be helpful.

--
Sincerely,
Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 20:53:18 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:53:18 +0000
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <424869B1.1080709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <424869B1.1080709@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200503282053.18839.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 28, 2005 08:31 pm, James Knott wrote:
> Alan Cohen wrote:
> > Hello all
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
> > connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
> > who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
> > how-to's?.
> > A static IP number would be helpful.
>
> Rogers has the GPRS service, but I don't think it comes cheap.  I'd be
> surprised if static IPs are available.  You can either use PCMCIA cards
> or an appropriate cell phone.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

The Treo 600 can be run in tethered mode, which allows you to use it as a 
modem, dialing out to your preferred dial-up ISP.

There may be some other cell phones able to do this, but I am unaware of any.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 21:12:24 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:12:24 -0500
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <200503282053.18839.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <424869B1.1080709@rogers.com> <200503282053.18839.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <42487338.4020703@rogers.com>

Jason Shein wrote:
> On March 28, 2005 08:31 pm, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>Alan Cohen wrote:
>>
>>>Hello all
>>>
>>>Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
>>>connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
>>>who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
>>>how-to's?.
>>>A static IP number would be helpful.
>>
>>Rogers has the GPRS service, but I don't think it comes cheap.  I'd be
>>surprised if static IPs are available.  You can either use PCMCIA cards
>>or an appropriate cell phone.

> 
> The Treo 600 can be run in tethered mode, which allows you to use it as a 
> modem, dialing out to your preferred dial-up ISP.
> 
> There may be some other cell phones able to do this, but I am unaware of any.
> 

There are many models that support GPRS, but there was a service 
available on Rogers and others, that essentially made your phone appear 
as a dial up 9600 bps modem.  Rogers is no longer offering that service, 
but still maintaining it for existing customers.  GPRS is capable of 
much higher data rates.
--
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 21:33:31 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:33:31 +0000
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <42487338.4020703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112041019.2649.132.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <200503282053.18839.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42487338.4020703@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200503282133.31855.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 28, 2005 09:12 pm, James Knott wrote:
> Jason Shein wrote:
> > On March 28, 2005 08:31 pm, James Knott wrote:
> >>Alan Cohen wrote:
> >>>Hello all
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone have any suggestions for a cellular (GSM etc) Internet
> >>>connection to be used as a secondary to my main connection? Things like
> >>>who (Fido,Rogers,Bell...), how (modems such as wavecom's WMOD2B) and
> >>>how-to's?.
> >>>A static IP number would be helpful.
> >>
> >>Rogers has the GPRS service, but I don't think it comes cheap.  I'd be
> >>surprised if static IPs are available.  You can either use PCMCIA cards
> >>or an appropriate cell phone.
> >
> > The Treo 600 can be run in tethered mode, which allows you to use it as a
> > modem, dialing out to your preferred dial-up ISP.
> >
> > There may be some other cell phones able to do this, but I am unaware of
> > any.
>
> There are many models that support GPRS, but there was a service
> available on Rogers and others, that essentially made your phone appear
> as a dial up 9600 bps modem.  Rogers is no longer offering that service,
> but still maintaining it for existing customers.  GPRS is capable of
> much higher data rates.
> --

When operating in tethered mode, the treo operates as a standard 56k modem. As 
on landlines, it too is susceptible to speed loss due to connection quality.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 22:10:04 2005
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:10:04 -0500
Subject: Cellular Internet backup connection
In-Reply-To: <BIECJAHDHNAGOGDPOEKLOELLCCAA.ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BIECJAHDHNAGOGDPOEKLOELLCCAA.ray@pcrepairs.com>
Message-ID: <424880BC.40102@utoronto.ca>

Rogers will be offering EDGE I believe. In fact I think they're offering 
  it now, how else could they offer their video phone service.
--
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From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Mar 28 22:50:25 2005
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:50:25 -0500
Subject: OT: Rogers Wireless Offers EDGE!
Message-ID: <42488A31.3090800@utoronto.ca>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: New Incident - Will you be offering EDGE on your 
network?... (050328-000103)  (KMM9580764V49025L0KM)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:33:10 -0500
From: FAQwireless <FAQwireless-w6+5gY1eu51YzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: FAQwireless <FAQwireless-w6+5gY1eu51YzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org>
To: Ivan Frey <ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for using our email service.

Rogers Wireless currently offers the EDGE service. The following
phones/ devices are compatible:
1) Sony Ericsson GC82 PC Card (discontinued) replaced with Sony
Ericsson GC83
2) Motorola V551 or V551m
3) Nokia 3220.

Thank you for inquiring about Rogers.

For any future reference with respect to this e-mail, please quote
reference number 4709380.

Regards,
Melissa W.
http://www.rogers.com
Online Customer Care


Original Message Follows:
------------------------
The following question has been received:
Reference #050328-000103
---------------------------------------------------------------
             Summary: Will you be offering EDGE on your network?...
            Category: Wireless Data
        Sub-Category: Wireless Network Cards
Contact Information:
        Date Created: 03/28/2005 05:25 PM
        Last Updated: 03/28/2005 05:25 PM
              Status: ECare
          First Name:
           Last Name:
         Account No.:
         Dealer Code:
      E-mail Address: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
   en to fr relation:
Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Auto-Response - 03/28/2005 05:25 PM
Title: How do I know if the Sony Ericsson GC82 or the Sony Ericsson GC83
network adapte
Link:
http://shoprogersfaq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shoprogersfaq.cfg/php/enduser/
std_adp.php?p_faqid=3348&p_created=1086893772
Title: What type of product is the Sony Ericsson GC82 or the Sony
Ericsson GC83?
Link:
http://shoprogersfaq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shoprogersfaq.cfg/php/enduser/
std_adp.php?p_faqid=3343&p_created=1086886960
Title: How do I install the Sony Ericsson GC82 or the Sony Ericsson GC83
modem card?
Link:
http://shoprogersfaq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shoprogersfaq.cfg/php/enduser/
std_adp.php?p_faqid=3338&p_created=1086885891
Title: Does the Sony Ericsson GC82 support international roaming?
Link:
http://shoprogersfaq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shoprogersfaq.cfg/php/enduser/
std_adp.php?p_faqid=3333&p_created=1086813918
Title: Since the Sony Ericsson GC82 does not support international
roaming, what do I d
Link:
http://shoprogersfaq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shoprogersfaq.cfg/php/enduser/
std_adp.php?p_faqid=3334&p_created=1086814142
Customer - 03/28/2005 05:25 PM
Will you be offering EDGE on your network?
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 14:55:57 2005
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:55:57 -0500
Subject: The end of Microsoft?
Message-ID: <20050329095557.A4367@ee.ryerson.ca>




	


    Brazil: Free Software's Biggest and Best Friend

Isis Cordeiro, pointing, and Jennifer Patrochinio, right, attending a 
class on computers in Rio de Janeiro. The Brazilian government has plans 
to help millions of low-income people buy their first computers.
John Maier for The New York Times
Isis Cordeiro, pointing, and Jennifer Patrochinio, right, attending a 
class on computers in Rio de Janeiro. The Brazilian government has plans 
to help millions of low-income people buy their first computers.


*By TODD BENSON 
<http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=TODD%20BENSON&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=TODD%20BENSON&inline=nyt-per> 
*

Published: March 29, 2005

	



John Maier for The New York Times
A city-run center in a poor section of S?o Paulo is one of several 
efforts in Brazil to give people wider access to computers.



S?O PAULO, Brazil, March 28 - Since taking office two years ago, 
President Luiz In?cio Lula da Silva has turned Brazil into a tropical 
outpost of the free software movement.

Looking to save millions of dollars in royalties and licensing fees, Mr. 
da Silva has instructed government ministries and state-run companies to 
gradually switch from costly operating systems made by Microsoft 
<http://www.nytimes.com/redirect/marketwatch/redirect.ctx?MW=http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/nyt-com/html-companyprofile.asp&symb=MSFT> 
and others to free operating systems, like Linux. On Mr. da Silva's 
watch, Brazil has also become the first country to require any company 
or research institute that receives government financing to develop 
software to license it as open-source, meaning the underlying software 
code must be free to all.

Now Brazil's government looks poised to take its free software campaign 
to the masses. And once again Microsoft may end up on the sidelines.

By the end of April, the government plans to roll out a much ballyhooed 
program called PC Conectado, or Connected PC, aimed at helping millions 
of low-income Brazilians buy their first computers.

And if the president's top technology adviser gets his way, the program 
may end up offering computers with only free software, including the 
operating system, handpicked by the government instead of giving 
consumers the option of paying more for, say, a basic edition of 
Microsoft Windows.

"For this program to be viable, it has to be with free software," said 
S?rgio Amadeu, president of Brazil's National Institute of Information 
Technology, the agency that oversees the government's technology 
initiatives. "We're not going to spend taxpayers' money on a program so 
that Microsoft can further consolidate its monopoly. It's the 
government's responsibility to ensure that there is competition, and 
that means giving alternative software platforms a chance to prosper."

Microsoft has offered to provide a simplified, discounted version of 
Windows for the program. Though a final decision on which software to 
install has been delayed several times, as has the program's rollout, 
Mr. Amadeu and some other government officials have publicly criticized 
Microsoft's proposal, calling the version's abilities too limited.

Still, Microsoft has not given up just yet. The company, which declined 
to make an executive available for an interview, said in a statement 
that it was still "working with the PC Conectado project to see if 
there's a way Microsoft can help."

Under the program, which is expected to offer tax incentives for 
computer makers to cut prices and a generous payment plan for consumers, 
the government hopes to offer desktops for around 1,400 reais ($509) or 
less. The machines will be comparable to those costing almost twice that 
outside the program.

Buyers will be able to pay in 24 installments of 50 to 60 reais, or 
about $18 to $21.80 a month, an amount affordable for many working poor. 
The country's top three fixed-line telephone companies - Telef?nica of 
Spain; Tele Norte Leste Participa??es, or Telemar; and Brasil Telecom - 
have agreed to provide a dial-up Internet connection to participants for 
7.50 reais, or less than $3, a month, allowing 15 hours of Web surfing.

The program aims at households and small-business owners earning three 
to seven times the minimum monthly wage, or about $284 to $662. The 
government says seven million qualify, and it hopes to reach a million 
of them by year-end.

That may seem ambitious in a developing country of 183 million people 
where only 10 percent of all households have Internet access and just 
900,000 computers are sold legally each year. (Including black-market 
sales, the number is closer to four million, still a small fraction of 
the number sold in the United States last year, according to the 
International Data Corporation, a technology research firm.)

"We're well aware that we're talking about doubling the domestic market 
for personal computers," said Cezar Alvarez, the presidential aide in 
charge of the PC Conectado program. "But it's absolutely feasible."

Some analysts have questioned the effectiveness of such programs, noting 
that some similar projects in Asia have become bogged down in red tape 
and, in some cases, have ended up favoring the elite. In Malaysia, for 
instance, the government is introducing a second affordable-computer 
program after its first attempt failed because of poor planning and 
fraud - something Brazilian officials say they are working hard to prevent.

Others say the government should focus its technology initiatives 
elsewhere, especially in schools. Only 19 percent of Brazil's public 
schools have computers.

The government says it plans to complement the PC Conectado program with 
stepped-up efforts to put more computers into schools. It is also 
investing $74 million to open 1,000 community centers in poor 
neighborhoods by year-end with computers that run free software programs 
and offer free Internet access - supplementing similar programs by local 
governments and nongovernmental organizations.

The drive to bridge the digital divide has drawn widespread praise 
throughout the technology industry. But the preference for open-source 
software has been controversial, with critics inside and outside the 
government saying Mr. da Silva's administration is letting leftist 
ideology trump the laws of supply and demand.

"The government shouldn't be the one who decides what hardware and 
software will go into these computers," said J?lio Semeghini, a member 
of Congress from the opposition Social Democratic Party. "That's 
undemocratic."

The open-source route, however, has support beyond the da Silva 
administration. Walter Bender, the executive director of the Media Lab 
at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, whose opinion was 
solicited by the Brazilian government, replied in a recent letter that 
"high-quality free software" has proved more effective in stimulating 
computer use among the poor than scaled-down versions of proprietary 
software.

Though he said he did not oppose giving consumers a choice, he concluded 
that "free software provides a basis for more widespread access, more 
powerful uses and a much stronger platform for long-term growth and 
development."

Whatever the government decides, most industry analysts agree that the 
program will probably help combat software piracy, which is widespread 
in Brazil.

And by wooing new consumers, "even if the program doesn't reach its 
goals, it's going to end up stimulating the computer and software 
markets," said Jorge Sukarie, president of the Brazilian Association of 
Software Companies. "It's not perfect, but it's certainly better than 
nothing."


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 18:21:38 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:21:38 -0500
Subject: Memory Pricing Falling ?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050325091613.026da090-7tSzFbjPOKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <42441AF7.7020600@golden.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20050325091613.026da090@mail.vif.com>
Message-ID: <20050329182138.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 09:17:46AM -0500, vertaxis wrote:
> They're installing DDR3 on the latest video cards now.  They're also may be 
> shrinking sizes down on the die again.  I think it a prelude to a tech 
> shift.

I believe video cards are using GDDR3 not DDR3 (which I don't think
actually exists yet).  Graphics cards skipped GDDR2 rather quickly for
some reason.  Ram for video cards tends to be dual ported, which system
ream is not so they are not quite the same thing.  Some cheap video
cards using plain memory at a performance loss.

> I can also hope it's a glut.

Well cheaper ram always makes me happy.

Lennart Sorensen
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 18:25:51 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:25:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: The end of Microsoft?
In-Reply-To: <20050329095557.A4367-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050329095557.A4367@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <47764.206.186.8.130.1112120751.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

><snip>
>
> S?O PAULO, Brazil, March 28 - Since taking office two years ago,
> President Luiz In?cio Lula da Silva has turned Brazil into a tropical
> outpost of the free software movement.
>
> <snip>
>
>The end of Microsoft?

No: the START of an exciting new era!

The best things in life are Free...

Viva Brasil!

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 18:28:51 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:28:51 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050329182851.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 09:21:47AM -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
> 
> It seems this is 'networking week' on TLUG, so let me throw this out (as it's 
> pertinent):  
> 
>   I've got a cable modem (Motorola SB5100), and I found that - lately - if I 
> hooked it up via USB, for some flaky reason I simply couldn't get a 
> connection upon rebooting (which I'm sure has something to do with the USB 
> ports, as the modem works perfectly and the connection is solid).
>   I decided to go back to RJ45 (Cat-6) via an ethernet card which has worked 
> solidly in the past. However, I've discovered now that every time I boot up 
> there is no recognition between the cable modem and the PCI ethernet card - 
> however, once I'm booted up, all I need to do is run '/etc/init.d/networking 
> restart' and all is well (every time), which leads me to believe that perhaps 
> one of the following scenarios is happening: 

I have the same modem and have had no problem using the ethernet port.
The USB port will never be connected to anything in my house since USB
is not a good choice for network related uses.

> 1. My system isn't recognizing my PCI card prior to DHCP trying to do the 
> magic handshake (it certainly does recognize my PCI cards when I'm logged 
> in). 
> 2. My system has got USB on the brain and isn't *looking* for a PCI ethernet 
> connection ?
> 3. My system is possessed by space-monkeys.  
> 
>   Any clues what I can try to sort this one out?

Get a working network card or perhaps get working software.

Perhaps your system isn't configured to load the ethernet driver or to
configure it with dhcp, or you have a firewall loading at boot that
doesn't allow through dhcp.  It really should be very easy to get
working (just forget the thing has a usb port and you should be fine).

You can also check if your dhcp client is working.  pump tends to work
well for me, while dhcpcd has some problems and dhclient is just
useless.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 18:32:15 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:32:15 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <424383EC.4060307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000@spsystems.net> <20050324180240.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <424383EC.4060307@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050329183214.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 10:22:20PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> According to what I read, Gigabit can handle either cable type.

Well not from what I read.  At least you must have 4 wire pais intact
for gigabit to work, and many crossover ethernet only have two pairs
connected at all.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 18:45:57 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:45:57 -0500
Subject: mailing list/mail web-archive software
In-Reply-To: <4246F685.2020708-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4246F685.2020708@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20050329184557.GO23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 01:08:05PM -0500, Anton Markov wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am looking for a mail archive -> HTML and/or mailing list software.
> 
> For this one project I am working on, we have been communicating by
> simply hitting the reply-all button. But now I want to preserve those
> e-mails (they are all in a local Thunderbird folder) and any future
> communication in a web-based HTML archive.
> 
> So far I have looked at two possibilities:
> - - Various "Groups" services such as Google Groups, Yahoo! Groups, etc.
> However, they don't provide an option to upload old messages.
> - - Setting up a mailing list manager such as GNU Mailman. However, that
> seems like an overkill, and I don't want to set up a mail server (what
> what I've heard, it's a pain).
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
> - - Is there a web-based service that will let me upload old archives (the
> information is not sensitive, but has to remain private)?
> - - Is there a simple program to generate web-archives of e-mail messages?
> - - Can GNU Mailman or similar mailing list manager run in archive-only 
> mode?
> - - Can I use GNU Mailman or similar program with a POP3 account (and
> sending via SMTP), so I can use a separate GMAIL account to receive the
> message?

I like lists-archives which uses mhonarc to convert messages to html and
makes monthly folders for mail and links to other messages in threads.
I believe it is what all the debian mailing list archives (at
lists.debian.org) use.  It simply has to have it's user subscribed to
the list and a cron job setup to run the update script at whatever
frequency you want the updates to be at, and it does the rest.

Lennart Sorensen
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 19:38:38 2005
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:38:38 -0500
Subject: perl; getting a subset of hash keys based on a given value(s)
Message-ID: <4249AEBE.9030302@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I have a couple of large (200,000+) hashes in perl that I need to 
pull keys from based on given values within it.

   In the first hash I want to pull one or more hashes that match a 
given value and then for each see if a match exists in the second hash. 
With the help of TPM I've got it so that I can brute-force this by 
reading every value in the hash and 'next if' past the ones that don't 
match what I want but this is horribly inefficient.

   My hashes are built like this:

$src{$n++} = {
	dev_uuid	=>	"<device_uuid>",
	parent_dir	=>	"<parent_dir>",
	file_name	=>	"<file_name>",
	type		=>	"<file_type>",
	size		=>	"<file_size>",
	user		=>	"<owning_user>",
	uid		=>	"<owner_uid>"
};

and

$dst{$o++} = {
	from_uuid	=>	"<source_uuid>",
	dev_uuid	=>	"<device_uuid>",
	parent_dir	=>	"<parent_dir>",
	file_name	=>	"<file_name>",
	type		=>	"<file_type>",
	size		=>	"<file_size>",
	user		=>	"<owning_user>",
	uid		=>	"<owner_uid>"
};

   Another way to ask my question would be to show that if this was a 
database I might get all the keys from '%src' that I want like this:

SELECT keys FROM %src WHERE parent_dir='/home' AND dev_uuid='abc123';

   Then for all the returned keys I would get the corresponding 
'file_name' and 'type' and see if a matching key exists in the '%dst' 
hash. Perhaps like so:

SELECT keys FROM %dst WHERE from_device='$src{$n}{device_id}' AND 
parent_dir='$src{$n}{parent_dir}' AND file_name='$src{$n}{file_name}' 
AND file_type='$src{$n}{file_type}';

   If one (or more) '%dst' hashes match then I know a match was found 
and I will use the 'dst' key(s) return to compare against the given 
'src' key I am currently working on to compare more details. Is there a 
way in perl to do this?

   The brute force way I was doing it was:

print "\nStarting the hash test:\n";
foreach my $part ( keys %src )
{
	next if $src{$part}{parent_dir} ne "/";
	print " |- [ Source ] - 
[s$part]-[".$src{$part}{dev_uuid}.":".$src{$part}{parent_dir}.$src{$part}{file_name}.":".$src{$part}{type}."]\n";
	$match=0;
	for my $dpart ( keys %dst )
	{
		print " |- [ Check  ] - 
[d$dpart]-[".$dst{$dpart}{from_uuid}.":".$dst{$dpart}{parent_dir}.$dst{$dpart}{file_name}.":".$dst{$dpart}{type}."] 
on: [".$dst{$dpart}{file_name}."]\n";
		next if $dst{$dpart}{from_uuid} ne $src{$part}{dev_uuid};
		next if $dst{$dpart}{parent_dir} ne $src{$part}{parent_dir};
		next if $dst{$dpart}{file_name} ne $src{$part}{file_name};
		next if $dst{$dpart}{type} ne $src{$part}{type};
		print " |- [ Match  ] - the file has been backed up to: 
[".$dst{$dpart}{dev_uuid}."]\n";
		$match=1;
		last;
	}
	if ( $match == 0 )
	{
		print " |- [ Match  ] - No match!\n";
	}
}
print " \\- Test finished!\n\n";

   I am hoping there is a better way I could do the 'foreach ...' 
section to accomplish what I want. Before this I was creating the hash 
keys using '<dev_id>:<parent_dir>:<file_name>:<file_type>' and then using:

foreach ( grep {/^$src_dirs[$i]\:.*[^d]$/} keys %src )

   But that was taking over 2sec/dir. which meant my program would take 
up to 7h to run this one task. The great guys and gals at TPM helped me 
get my head around 'name => value' style hashes. So this style of hash 
is still somewhat new to me so I may be missing the obvious. :p

Thanks all!

Madison

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly (Digimer)
TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up
http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 19:49:36 2005
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:49:36 -0500
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <20050329182851.GM23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com> <20050329182851.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4249B150.1050104@utoronto.ca>

There's also the verbose dhcp3-client from the Internet Software 
Consortium. Available in Debian unstable.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 20:07:00 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:07:00 -0500
Subject: OT: cat 5 cable, ethernet, connection jacks
In-Reply-To: <20050329183214.GN23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050324171326.GA16710@utoronto.ca> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050324123356.9054I-100000@spsystems.net> <20050324180240.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <424383EC.4060307@rogers.com> <20050329183214.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4249B564.7010709@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 10:22:20PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>According to what I read, Gigabit can handle either cable type.
> 
> 
> Well not from what I read.  At least you must have 4 wire pais intact
> for gigabit to work, and many crossover ethernet only have two pairs
> connected at all.

OK, assuming all 4 pairs are present, gigabit can handle either cable type.
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From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 20:45:24 2005
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:45:24 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
Message-ID: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

Hi guys,

A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable 
connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem to 
support it (talking to their tech people) either.

Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
you have a static IP?

Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?

I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.

At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL 
connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there 
either? :S

Any Ideas?

Regards,

David
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 21:50:35 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:50:35 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291545.24782.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <4249CDAB.2080406@rogers.com>

David Colebatch wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable 
> connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem to 
> support it (talking to their tech people) either.
> 
> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
> you have a static IP?
> 
> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
> 
> I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.
> 
> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL 
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there 
> either? :S
> 
> Any Ideas?

While they may not have static IPs, the dhcp addresses are virtually 
static.  As for filtering, you'll have to ask them.
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 21:56:43 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:56:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291545.24782.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, David Colebatch wrote:

> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
> you have a static IP?

I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that 
offer a static address.  This is not a technical limitation since it is 
trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent.  It seems to be a cultural 
aspect of the use of cable.

If they want static they'll need to go with DSL or another technology.

> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?

Last time I checked they were not filtering incoming ports but there have 
been reports of periodic scans with them investigating anything except 
ssh.

The acceptible use policy your client has probably prohibits them from 
offering services.

> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL 
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there 
> either? :S

Plenty of DSL providers offer static addresses now.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 21:58:30 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:58:30 -0500
Subject: perl; getting a subset of hash keys based on a given
	value(s)
In-Reply-To: <4249AEBE.9030302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4249AEBE.9030302@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20050329165830.02wxv544854w0g0s@www.almatau.com>

Quoting Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>:

..
>
>   I am hoping there is a better way I could do the 'foreach ...' 
> section to accomplish what I want. Before this I was creating the 
> hash keys using '<dev_id>:<parent_dir>:<file_name>:<file_type>' and 
> then using:
>
> foreach ( grep {/^$src_dirs[$i]\:.*[^d]$/} keys %src )
Looping through hundreds of thousands records won't be fast in perl.  
Inserting
those records into a temporary table in a database will allow getting results
much faster.

>
>   But that was taking over 2sec/dir. which meant my program would 
> take up to 7h to run this one task. The great guys and gals at TPM 
> helped me get my head around 'name => value' style hashes. So this
It's actually the only style of hash.  The one you've been using before was a
hash with zero values.


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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:05:43 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:05:43 -0500
Subject: perl; getting a subset of hash keys based on a given
	value(s)
In-Reply-To: <20050329165830.02wxv544854w0g0s-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org>
References: <4249AEBE.9030302@alteeve.com>
	<20050329165830.02wxv544854w0g0s@www.almatau.com>
Message-ID: <20050329170543.65zcqy1avr1cokk0@www.almatau.com>

Quoting Ilya Palagin <tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>:

> Quoting Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>:
>
> ..
>>
>>   I am hoping there is a better way I could do the 'foreach ...' 
>> section to accomplish what I want. Before this I was creating the 
>> hash keys using '<dev_id>:<parent_dir>:<file_name>:<file_type>' and 
>> then using:
>>
>> foreach ( grep {/^$src_dirs[$i]\:.*[^d]$/} keys %src )
> Looping through hundreds of thousands records won't be fast in perl.  
> Inserting
> those records into a temporary table in a database will allow getting results
> much faster.
Also, if you decide to use a SQL database, don't create a subquery for this
task. "Left join" will be faster.


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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:05:05 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:05:05 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <42465536.8020103-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503270015090.22743@mimosa.opentrend.net> <42465536.8020103@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20050329220505.GP23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 01:39:50AM -0500, Anton Markov wrote:
> Slightly OT:
> 
> What web server is usually used for web-based configration UIs such as
> CUPS or Webmin? Do they all use a statically-linked version of apache or
> something?

Webmin does it's own thing in perl (miniserv.pl is the webmin web
server), and cups uses IPP for the printer access which is http based,
so it wasn't a big leap to do a web management interface too.  Neither
uses something as huge and overkill as apache.  http is not that hard to
implement.

Lennart Sorensen
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From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 21:08:25 2005
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:08:25 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503291608.26156.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Tuesday 29 March 2005 16:56, Robert Brockway wrote:

> I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that
> offer a static address.  

Thanks Rob.  Maybe I'm confused, but I thought BigPond and Optus back home 
both had static IP's.  For sure Optus had been blocking ports though, to 
prevent the running of services.

> This is not a technical limitation since it is 
> trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent.  It seems to be a cultural
> aspect of the use of cable.
>
> If they want static they'll need to go with DSL or another technology.
>
> Plenty of DSL providers offer static addresses now.
>

Ok, thanks for your help.

Rgds,

David
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:09:26 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:09:26 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291545.24782.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <20050329220926.GA4507@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 03:45:24PM -0500, David Colebatch wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable 
> connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem to 
> support it (talking to their tech people) either.
> 
> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
> you have a static IP?
> 
> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
> 
> I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.
> 
> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL 
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there 
> either? :S
> 
> Any Ideas?

I don't think Roger's Cable is setup for static.  If your client has
their own domain, then you can use <www.zoneedit.com> and others for
dynamic IP.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:11:13 2005
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:11:13 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP0266AEBFDC9AE76A56FBB4B2450@cez.ice>

I think that you have to send SMTP through their servers. Does this present 
a problem for hosting SMTP or can you forward it through the Rogers 
server(s)?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Colebatch" <david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: rogers with static IP ?


> Hi guys,
>
> A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable
> connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem 
> to
> support it (talking to their tech people) either.
>
> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? 
> Do
> you have a static IP?
>
> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
>
> I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.
>
> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there
> either? :S
>
> Any Ideas?
>
> Regards,
>
> David
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:15:45 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:15:45 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291545.24782.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <20050329171545.n0rhrcmjspf4sks8@www.almatau.com>

Quoting David Colebatch <david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org>:

> Hi guys,
>
> A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable
> connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem to
> support it (talking to their tech people) either.
>
> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do
> you have a static IP?
>
> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
>
> I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.
>
> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there
> either? :S
>
> Any Ideas?

Another option you may recommend is to host these services in a non-expensive
data centre. No filtering, static IP, and (possibly) lower cost.


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:25:05 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:25:05 +0200 (IST)
Subject: network connection issue
In-Reply-To: <4249B150.1050104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503250921.47227.m-cahill@rogers.com> <20050329182851.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <4249B150.1050104@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503300024390.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Ivan Avery Frey wrote:

> There's also the verbose dhcp3-client from the Internet Software Consortium. 
> Available in Debian unstable.

Why not run tcpdump or equivalent on the server and see what really 
happens ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:24:15 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:24:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: perl; getting a subset of hash keys based on a given
 value(s)
In-Reply-To: <4249AEBE.9030302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4249AEBE.9030302@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503300016400.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Madison Kelly wrote:

>  But that was taking over 2sec/dir. which meant my program would take up to 
> 7h to run this one task. The great guys and gals at TPM helped me get my head 
> around 'name => value' style hashes. So this style of hash is still somewhat 
> new to me so I may be missing the obvious. :p

Imho whenever you run into database problems, use a database. 
Implementing a database in Perl can be painful. Perl can interface to 
DB2, dbm, MySQL, PostreSQL and others. Choose one and use it. Imho it 
would be much faster to take a snapshot of the system using the 
equivalent of ls -lR and insert the result of that into a database, then 
operate on that database in Perl. Of course you know that your snapshot 
will not be up to date if the system is active when it is made. By 
telling the database to INDEX by certain keys you can actually issue 
your commands in SQL as you showed and it will be fairly fast (much less 
than 7 hours - a select on 4 indexed terms from the same table on 
PostgreSQL, from a 100,000 row table, on a 500MHz ancient machine takes 
well under a minute).

Peter
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:29:16 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:29:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291608.26156.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
 <200503291608.26156.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291728050.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, David Colebatch wrote:

> Thanks Rob.  Maybe I'm confused, but I thought BigPond and Optus back home 
> both had static IP's.  For sure Optus had been blocking ports though, to 
> prevent the running of services.

I thought they had the same "long term but not permanent" addresses as 
Rogers but I could be wrong.  A Rogers client can often go a year or more 
without an address change.

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:35:42 2005
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:35:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP0266AEBFDC9AE76A56FBB4B2450-vCQSkuYnZQ8@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
 <BAYC1-PASMTP0266AEBFDC9AE76A56FBB4B2450@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503291734200.18766@xword.rogers.com>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Jamon Camisso wrote:

> I think that you have to send SMTP through their servers. Does this present a 
> problem for hosting SMTP or can you forward it through the Rogers server(s)?

    I bypass their SMTP server; it causes problems with some sites as
    they cannot do a reverse DNS lookup.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
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From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:39:47 2005
From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:39:47 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503291739.48211.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca>

On March 29, 2005 04:56 pm, Robert Brockway wrote:
> I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that
> offer a static address.  This is not a technical limitation since it is
> trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent.  It seems to be a cultural
> aspect of the use of cable.

while it is rare, i believe shaw cable (vancouver, bc) does do static ip 
addresses for people willing to pay for the business account.

-- 
never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
  - unknown
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 22:41:19 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:41:19 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4249D98F.2010809@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, David Colebatch wrote:
> 
> 
>>Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
>>you have a static IP?
> 
> 
> I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that 
> offer a static address.  This is not a technical limitation since it is 
> trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent.  It seems to be a cultural 
> aspect of the use of cable.
> 
> If they want static they'll need to go with DSL or another technology.

When I first started with Rogers, back in the @Home days, I had a static IP.

> 
> 
>>Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
> 
> 
> Last time I checked they were not filtering incoming ports but there have 
> been reports of periodic scans with them investigating anything except 
> ssh.
> 
> The acceptible use policy your client has probably prohibits them from 
> offering services.

I'd be curious to see what a business AUP allows & prohibits.  If they 
ban servers, I'd be looking elsewhere.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 23:05:42 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:05:42 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291728050.20639-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net> <200503291608.26156.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291728050.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4249DF46.6020306@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, David Colebatch wrote:
> 
> 
>>Thanks Rob.  Maybe I'm confused, but I thought BigPond and Optus back home 
>>both had static IP's.  For sure Optus had been blocking ports though, to 
>>prevent the running of services.
> 
> 
> I thought they had the same "long term but not permanent" addresses as 
> Rogers but I could be wrong.  A Rogers client can often go a year or more 
> without an address change.

When I started with Rogers 5 years ago, static addresses were available.
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 00:36:06 2005
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:36:06 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <200503291545.24782.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <4249F476.8000602@rogers.com>

I was talking to rogers executive a couple months ago-- they were in the 
process of offering a static-ip product for $10.00 more/month. Dont know 
what happened since.

Kerry

David Colebatch wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> A company I'm consulting with at the moment have a rogers business cable 
> connection, but apparently it doesn't have a static IP.  Rogers don't seem to 
> support it (talking to their tech people) either.
> 
> Has anyone here had any experience with Rogers Business cable connections? Do 
> you have a static IP?
> 
> Also, does Rogers do any port filtering to prevent hosting services too?
> 
> I need to be able to host DNS, email (SMTP), web (80 and 443), and ssh.
> 
> At the moment it looks like I might have to recommend an SDSL 
> connection...unless of course providers here don't give static IP's there 
> either? :S
> 
> Any Ideas?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David
> --
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From jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 01:02:50 2005
From: jadall-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:02:50 -0500
Subject: Apache, Virtual Hosts, Linux hosts file
In-Reply-To: <42476DDE.3070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <42476DDE.3070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4249FABA.1000804@istop.com>

Stephen wrote:

> I have a Linux box (Mandrake 10.1) running Apache 2.0.
>
> I am using it for testing of PHP-MySQL  scripts.
>
> I have it working, but I had to map the virtual urls to the Linux 
> box's ip address in the Linux hosts file.
>
> I am using a web browser on another machine on my network. If I do not 
> have the entries in the Linux box's hosts file, I get the default 
> Apache welcome page.
>
> I am not using DNS, just entries in the hosts file on the machine I am 
> running the browser on.
>
> Why do I need the entry in the Linux box's hosts file? I am 
> considering the possibility that I have a configuration problem. She 
> not the entry in the VHosts.conf file for the virtual hosts be 
> sufficient?
>
> I am not trying to use a browser on the Linux box!
>
> Thanks in advance!

The VHosts.conf give you your mapping to application.  The host file 
resolves the name to IP to find the correct box.  If you were running a 
dns server the same would be true, name to IP mapping.

Grant Cullen
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From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Mar 29 19:05:04 2005
From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:05:04 -0500
Subject: Minimal web server
In-Reply-To: <20050327045919.GA5799-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050327045919.GA5799@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <4249A6E0.1010709@pobox.com>

Walter Dnes wrote:

>  Is there something less complex than Apache for serving HTML/XHTML?
>I'm thinking of getting my feet wet with a home-based server (which
>IStop allows).  No streaming or cgi in mind, simply XHTML 1.1 and
>possibly a few small files.  I want something simple and secure.
>  
>

Well there's publicfile by the inimitable Dan Bernstein:

http://cr.yp.to/publicfile.html

Thy is a nice little http server for internal use. I wouldn't trust it 
on a public server, but it uses a tiny amount of RAM and it's great for 
old, overworked, underprovisioned servers:

http://bonehunter.rulez.org/software/thy/
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From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 01:40:05 2005
From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:40:05 -0500
Subject: Postfix + fetchmail puzzle
Message-ID: <20050330014005.GA4396@oz.utoronto.ca>


Okay, here's something strange. I'm trying to set
up simple email under OS X. The mailer is postfix,
with which I am not familiar.

I set postfix to use the relayhost for outgoing mail,
and I use fetchmail and procmail for incoming mail.
Fetchmail is set to run as a daemon process all the
time: fetchmail -d 450.

Curiously, it doesn't seem to work. In order for me
to actually get my mail, I have to send a message to
myself. Sending an outbound message somehow causes
either fetchmail or postfix to wake up, and within a
few minutes I have the latest iteration of email.

Any idea what's happening here? As I said, I don't
know anything about postfix, or about OS X for that
matter. I have used sendmail + fetchmail + procmail
and exim + fetchmail + procmail successfully in the
past, on OpenBSD and Debian machines.

-- 
Peter King			 	peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
Department of Philosophy
215 Huron Street
The University of Toronto		    (416)-978-3788 ofc
Toronto, ON  M5S 1A1
       CANADA

http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/
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From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 01:57:06 2005
From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:57:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: grub question
In-Reply-To: <20050330014005.GA4396-fC5X+HKovvVctjzGqDOVaw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050330014005.GA4396@oz.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <32773.216.154.17.226.1112147826.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>

Hi gang,

What is the command-line grub command to re-install it to the boot sector
with the chainloader to the Linux partition?

I accidentally wiped it with the Windoze installation disk and cannot find
the
command to do it from the FC3 rescue disk.

Thanks,

 Fran?ois Ouellette
<fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
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From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 03:08:47 2005
From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:08:47 -0500
Subject: grub question
In-Reply-To: <32773.216.154.17.226.1112147826.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050330014005.GA4396@oz.utoronto.ca> <32773.216.154.17.226.1112147826.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <424A183F.501@almatau.com>

Francois Ouellette wrote:
> Hi gang,
> 
> What is the command-line grub command to re-install it to the boot sector
> with the chainloader to the Linux partition?
> 

grub> root (hd0,0) (Specify where your /boot partition resides)
grub> setup (hd0) (Install GRUB in the MBR)
grub> quit (Exit the GRUB shell)

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 06:17:43 2005
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:17:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: perl; getting a subset of hash keys based on a given
 value(s)
In-Reply-To: <4249AEBE.9030302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4249AEBE.9030302@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503300035390.4699@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>

|   I have a couple of large (200,000+) hashes in perl that I need to pull keys
| from based on given values within it.

Admission: I don't know perl.  One consequence is that I may have
misunderstood what you are saying.

I'm not really able to extract your problem from your description.
You seem to couch it in terms of an (apparently unacceptable)
solution.  It would be useful to step back and describe your actual
problem.

If I understand what you've done, I think that each of your tables is
represented as an array of hashes.  Each array has on the order of
200,000 entries.  Each entry is a hash representing a tuple of 7 (in
src) or 8 (in dst) members.

I don't know all the operations you need to do on these
datastructures.  The only ones you have revealed are:

- adding entries

- probing for and fetching entries with specific parent_dir and
  dev_uuid values

It is dangerous to design a datastructure without having an idea of
all the operations that it needs to support.  But I'll do that anyway,
assuming the only operations are the ones I've listed.

You could replace the array with a hash where the key is from
parent_dir x dev_uuid and the value is the rest of the tuple.
I am guessing that this key would not be unique, so the value would
have to be a list of rest-of-tuples.

This datastructure ought to be fast for the operations you've shown
us.

Without knowing perl's implementation, I'd guess that 400,000 hashes
might be significantly more expensive than 400,000 arrays.  So you
might consider representing each tuple with an array.

You could use a database, and your description certainly biases one to
thinking that way, but you haven't actually asked for anything that
needs the complexity of one.

You might find it useful to learn and think about datastructures in a
more abstract way than just what perl provides.  These could then be
implemented in perl, if you want.  In fact, when you know what you're
looking for, you can probably find an implementation in cpan.

It is useful to distinguish an abstract datastructure (one that
satisfies the problem requirements) from its
implementation/representation.  For example "tuple" suggests an
abstract datastructure that can be implemented in a bunch of ways
including as an array or a hash.

Hope this helps,

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 06:40:56 2005
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:40:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: grub question
In-Reply-To: <32773.216.154.17.226.1112147826.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050330014005.GA4396@oz.utoronto.ca>
 <32773.216.154.17.226.1112147826.squirrel@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503300118250.4699@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Francois Ouellette <fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>

| What is the command-line grub command to re-install it to the boot sector
| with the chainloader to the Linux partition?
| 
| I accidentally wiped it with the Windoze installation disk and cannot 
| find the command to do it from the FC3 rescue disk.

What I do in this case is boot from a grub floppy, get it to load the
system (FC3?) and then ask FC3 to install the boot sector.

[Warning: this is all from my imperfect memory.]

Making a grub boot floppy isn't too hard, but it is arcane.  I keep
one lying around.  They don't go obsolete very quickly -- I think I
still use one I built from RHL8.  Here's how to get the documentation.

    info grub
    select "installation"
    select "Creating a GRUB boot floppy"

It says (among other things):

     # cd /usr/share/grub/i386-pc
     # dd if=stage1 of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 count=1
     1+0 records in
     1+0 records out
     # dd if=stage2 of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 seek=1
     153+1 records in
     153+1 records out

If you don't have a working linux, you can probably do this from
KNOPPIX.  You do have a KNOPPIX, don't you?

Once you have a working grub boot disk, boot it.  Then type the
commands into its prompt.
Note: I am assuming that FC3 is on the 4the partition; adjust
accordingly.
Note: Grub counts up from 0, so the first drive is hd0 and the 4th
partition is 3.

	root (hd0,3)
	configfile /boot/grub/grub.conf

[Note: grub is ridiculously powerful.  You can do a lot of things from
its command line.]

This should give you the normal FC3 bootup.  Once FC3 is running,
install grub on the master boot sector.  From a shell:

	grub-install /dev/hda

I also like to install it on the boot sector of my LINUX partition(s):

	grub-install /dev/hda4

That way I can have multiple linux installations and use chainloading
to select which partition to boot.  This has advantages when kernels
are subsequently updated.

Good luck,

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 17:47:54 2005
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:47:54 -0500
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
Message-ID: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca>

the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the
last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail
arriving late.
I'm just sending this test to the list to see if it'll take 18hrs to
rumble through, and the most recent postings I see (from any list) is
yesterday 'round 5PM; that can't be right ! I'm sure once the MSN
conversion is complete, this penguin will be out in the cold !
djp
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From karim-vatZMuOh6OJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 18:09:33 2005
From: karim-vatZMuOh6OJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Karim Yaghmour)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:09:33 -0500
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200503291545.24782.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503291650230.20639@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <424AEB5D.7050800@opersys.com>


Robert Brockway wrote:
> I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that 
> offer a static address.  This is not a technical limitation since it is 
> trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent.  It seems to be a cultural 
> aspect of the use of cable.

In Quebec, Videotron will give out static IPs on business accounts.

For their "Extreme high-speed" and 5 static IPs on a 12-month contract
it comes down to 199$/month+tx. They lend you a Cisco SoHo router for
the static IPs.

For some reason or another, though, there's no mention anywhere on their
site regarding the availability of the 5 static IPs and related fees:
http://www.videotron.com/services/en/affaires/4.jsp

Karim
-- 
Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant
Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits
http://www.opersys.com || karim-vatZMuOh6OJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org || 1-866-677-4546
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 18:11:51 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:11:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050330181151.15203.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yeah I guess that is what happens when you outsource the mail servers to MSN. Nice job Bell.

David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the
last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail
arriving late.
I'm just sending this test to the list to see if it'll take 18hrs to
rumble through, and the most recent postings I see (from any list) is
yesterday 'round 5PM; that can't be right ! I'm sure once the MSN
conversion is complete, this penguin will be out in the cold !
djp
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From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 18:14:18 2005
From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:14:18 -0500
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
In-Reply-To: <424AE64A.4000807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <f9870c01050330101458bd9a83@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:47:54 -0500, David J Patrick
<davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the
> last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail
> arriving late.
> I'm just sending this test to the list to see if it'll take 18hrs to
> rumble through, and the most recent postings I see (from any list) is
> yesterday 'round 5PM; that can't be right ! I'm sure once the MSN
> conversion is complete, this penguin will be out in the cold !

Looks like your post made it through OK. I know I Googled for the
problem some time ago and came across an alternative SMTP server for
Sympatico: try smtp8 instead of smtp1. I changed someone over from
smtp1 to smtp8 recently and their problems went away.

The standard disclaimers apply, I do not work for Sympatico, your
mileage may vary ..

Alex
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From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 18:14:14 2005
From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:14:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rogers with static IP ?
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050330181414.48058.qmail@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

A colleague of mine requested it once with Rogers as a business need and got a static IP reserved. Not sure if you can still request this. It's not really a big deal to setup for them on DHCP assigned Static IPs.

Karim Yaghmour <karim-vatZMuOh6OJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
Robert Brockway wrote:
> I've never come across any cable connections anywhere in the world that 
> offer a static address. This is not a technical limitation since it is 
> trivial to make a DHCP reservation permanent. It seems to be a cultural 
> aspect of the use of cable.

In Quebec, Videotron will give out static IPs on business accounts.

For their "Extreme high-speed" and 5 static IPs on a 12-month contract
it comes down to 199$/month+tx. They lend you a Cisco SoHo router for
the static IPs.

For some reason or another, though, there's no mention anywhere on their
site regarding the availability of the 5 static IPs and related fees:
http://www.videotron.com/services/en/affaires/4.jsp

Karim
-- 
Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant
Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits
http://www.opersys.com || karim-vatZMuOh6OJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org || 1-866-677-4546
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 10:33:14 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:33:14 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web server
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


While researching something I happened upon this interesting Netcraft 
output page. It represents the uptime of the website of nec.com which 
seems to have switched from IIS to Solaris sometime in 2003:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.nec.com

Their uptime went up almost tenfold. for reference, here is the same 
record for microsoft:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.microsoft.com

which shows that the times resulting from the nec site may not be an 
accident. None of these run Apache so I found a site that does and it 
compares favorably with the solaris uptime:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.canon.com

SCO, who is suing everyone for running Linux, uses it copiously for its 
own needs all the time (in fact, they never said it was bad, they said 
it was *too* good):

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sco.com

Akamai (whom m$ uses to serve ads and many content pages), Yahoo, 
Hotmail, NYT, you name it, most run Apache. Even IBM runs Apache on AIX.

In general, with the exception of a few borg affiliates (dell, compaq - 
whose laptops are notorious for driver problems when running linux), and 
a few (non-us! - because most us government sites seem to run Apache!) 
government websites, there is no IIS on the web. Excepting for the 
unexpected:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.af.mil

IIS on Linux ?! <grin> Probing further, army.mil is a Mac shop (on Mac 
OS X) and the us navy runs IIS on Linux. The usmc runs IBM lotus domino 
on something secret.

Now, knowing this, how come there are so many websites that require an 
Explorer compatible browser for viewing ?!

Otherwise: How about a comparison of coo based on price/day uptime and
price/page served (including OS and hardware costs). Each of these 
factors could be assigned a figure of merit and a general score 
attained. IIS vs Apache looks about like so:

 			them	us

OS+Software:

 	Win 2003 Server	$1500				1

 	Linux/Freebsd,
 	boxed w. CDs		$70~$100		1

Hardware (1CPU 2x120G HDD, rack case, dual psu, good network card, dual fans etc:

 			$1200				0
 				$1200

Product lifetime (how long until you need a major upgrade):

 			<2 years
 				4-5 years (ex: running Apache 1.3 server
 				on 2.2 kernel is still a valid option)

Uptime (acc netcraft figures), also represents cost of labor in soft 
repairs and downtime, probably valid for a small server with medium 
traffic:

 			~100days			200 * 365/N (*)
 				~300days

Over 4 years:

 			1200+2*1500+4*2*365=7120$
 				1200+70+4*200/300*365=2243$

(*) = represents the cost of each downtime in hours of labor ~= 2 hours 
per downtime = 2*100$. Other costs are neglected.

This means:

Initial investment (w/o labor):
 			2700$
 				1270$

Running cost per year, labor only:
 			730$ year 1,2
 			2230$ year 3 (upgrade OS)
 			730$ year 4

 				133$

Network and bandwidth costs are assumed to be the same. How come these 
things can be compared at all ?! Or am I way off the mark ? Here is a 
comment on Sun prices (April 2004):

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=ACCFFD14-E4A3-46A6-B32C-B118A73667CF

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 19:09:10 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:09:10 -0500
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050330190910.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 12:33:14PM +0200, Peter wrote:
> 
> While researching something I happened upon this interesting Netcraft 
> output page. It represents the uptime of the website of nec.com which 
> seems to have switched from IIS to Solaris sometime in 2003:
> 
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.nec.com
> 
> Their uptime went up almost tenfold. for reference, here is the same 
> record for microsoft:
> 
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.microsoft.com
> 
> which shows that the times resulting from the nec site may not be an 
> accident. None of these run Apache so I found a site that does and it 
> compares favorably with the solaris uptime:
> 
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.canon.com
> 
> SCO, who is suing everyone for running Linux, uses it copiously for its 
> own needs all the time (in fact, they never said it was bad, they said 
> it was *too* good):
> 
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sco.com
> 
> Akamai (whom m$ uses to serve ads and many content pages), Yahoo, 
> Hotmail, NYT, you name it, most run Apache. Even IBM runs Apache on AIX.
> 
> In general, with the exception of a few borg affiliates (dell, compaq - 
> whose laptops are notorious for driver problems when running linux), and 
> a few (non-us! - because most us government sites seem to run Apache!) 
> government websites, there is no IIS on the web. Excepting for the 
> unexpected:
> 
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.af.mil
> 
> IIS on Linux ?! <grin> Probing further, army.mil is a Mac shop (on Mac 
> OS X) and the us navy runs IIS on Linux. The usmc runs IBM lotus domino 
> on something secret.

If you see IIS on Linux, it usually means IIS on a windows server behind
a Linux based load balancer/proxy/caching accelarator.

> Now, knowing this, how come there are so many websites that require an 
> Explorer compatible browser for viewing ?!

Becasue the web server doesn't create the content, it just servers it.

> Otherwise: How about a comparison of coo based on price/day uptime and
> price/page served (including OS and hardware costs). Each of these 
> factors could be assigned a figure of merit and a general score 
> attained. IIS vs Apache looks about like so:
> 
> 			them	us
> 
> OS+Software:
> 
> 	Win 2003 Server	$1500				1
> 
> 	Linux/Freebsd,
> 	boxed w. CDs		$70~$100		1
> 
> Hardware (1CPU 2x120G HDD, rack case, dual psu, good network card, dual 
> fans etc:
> 
> 			$1200				0
> 				$1200
> 
> Product lifetime (how long until you need a major upgrade):
> 
> 			<2 years
> 				4-5 years (ex: running Apache 1.3 server
> 				on 2.2 kernel is still a valid option)
> 
> Uptime (acc netcraft figures), also represents cost of labor in soft 
> repairs and downtime, probably valid for a small server with medium 
> traffic:
> 
> 			~100days			200 * 365/N (*)
> 				~300days
> 
> Over 4 years:
> 
> 			1200+2*1500+4*2*365=7120$
> 				1200+70+4*200/300*365=2243$
> 
> (*) = represents the cost of each downtime in hours of labor ~= 2 hours 
> per downtime = 2*100$. Other costs are neglected.
> 
> This means:
> 
> Initial investment (w/o labor):
> 			2700$
> 				1270$
> 
> Running cost per year, labor only:
> 			730$ year 1,2
> 			2230$ year 3 (upgrade OS)
> 			730$ year 4
> 
> 				133$
> 
> Network and bandwidth costs are assumed to be the same. How come these 
> things can be compared at all ?! Or am I way off the mark ? Here is a 
> comment on Sun prices (April 2004):
> 
> http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=ACCFFD14-E4A3-46A6-B32C-B118A73667CF

Some managers for some reason believe that having products from a big
vendor means there is someone to hold responsible when things don't work
or to call for help.  Now when they last managed to hold MS accountable
for anything or got any real help out of them I don't know, but they
still believe it works that way.  Apparently you just can't help
certain people understand technology enough for them to actually make
intelligent decisions.  This doesn't stop them from making decisions
anyhow.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 20:25:59 2005
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:25:59 -0500
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20050330202558.GB14925@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 12:33:14PM +0200, Peter wrote:
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> In general, with the exception of a few borg affiliates (dell, compaq - 
> whose laptops are notorious for driver problems when running linux), and 
> a few (non-us! - because most us government sites seem to run Apache!) 
> government websites, there is no IIS on the web. [ ... ]
> [ ... ]
> Now, knowing this, how come there are so many websites that require an 
> Explorer compatible browser for viewing ?!

You don't use Apache to create web pages, just to serve them.
It is the web page creation software that generates HTTP code;
that code can be dependent upon specific browsers (either code
that is truly dependent, or code that checks the browser type
and aborts just in case it might be dependent).

Apache can serve up HTTP code better than IIS, but it is equally
stupid abut the content - if the code it is serving up happens
to be broken or wearing a straightjacket, Apache doesn't know
enough to fix it.  (In general, it would be impossible for
Apache to do so.)

-- 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 19:42:56 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:42:56 -0500
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
In-Reply-To: <f9870c01050330101458bd9a83-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca>
	 <f9870c01050330101458bd9a83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0503301142cc29bd5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:14:18 -0500, Alex Beamish <talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:47:54 -0500, David J Patrick
> <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the
> > last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail
> > arriving late.
> > I'm just sending this test to the list to see if it'll take 18hrs to
> > rumble through, and the most recent postings I see (from any list) is
> > yesterday 'round 5PM; that can't be right ! I'm sure once the MSN
> > conversion is complete, this penguin will be out in the cold !
> 
> Looks like your post made it through OK. I know I Googled for the
> problem some time ago and came across an alternative SMTP server for
> Sympatico: try smtp8 instead of smtp1. I changed someone over from
> smtp1 to smtp8 recently and their problems went away.
> 
> The standard disclaimers apply, I do not work for Sympatico, your
> mileage may vary ..

Is there anything that we could say "systematically" about that?

Like, are there smtp2 thru smtp7 that might also be alternatives?

I recall hearing that they were rotating servers as they filled up
with spam, so it wouldn't surprise me that there would be merit to
going to one that has been most recently "cleaned up" in some
manner...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 20:48:13 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:48:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web
 server
In-Reply-To: <20050330202558.GB14925-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050330202558.GB14925@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503302246110.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, John Macdonald wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 12:33:14PM +0200, Peter wrote:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> In general, with the exception of a few borg affiliates (dell, compaq -
>> whose laptops are notorious for driver problems when running linux), and
>> a few (non-us! - because most us government sites seem to run Apache!)
>> government websites, there is no IIS on the web. [ ... ]
>> [ ... ]
>> Now, knowing this, how come there are so many websites that require an
>> Explorer compatible browser for viewing ?!
>
> You don't use Apache to create web pages, just to serve them.
> It is the web page creation software that generates HTTP code;
> that code can be dependent upon specific browsers (either code
> that is truly dependent, or code that checks the browser type
> and aborts just in case it might be dependent).
>
> Apache can serve up HTTP code better than IIS, but it is equally
> stupid abut the content - if the code it is serving up happens
> to be broken or wearing a straightjacket, Apache doesn't know
> enough to fix it.  (In general, it would be impossible for
> Apache to do so.)

I know that, I was not referring to the technical aspects. I thought 
that someone wise enough to generate content that would serve cleanly 
from Apache would know better than to lock users into a specific 
browser. I am assuming that the content writers must have some knowledge 
of the server capabilities to make their sites work. Don't they bother 
or aren't they allowed to.

thanks,
Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 20:52:41 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:52:41 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web
 server
In-Reply-To: <20050330190910.GQ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20050330190910.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503302248190.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 12:33:14PM +0200, Peter wrote:
>>
>> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.af.mil
>>
>> IIS on Linux ?! <grin> Probing further, army.mil is a Mac shop (on Mac
>> OS X) and the us navy runs IIS on Linux. The usmc runs IBM lotus domino
>> on something secret.
>
> If you see IIS on Linux, it usually means IIS on a windows server behind
> a Linux based load balancer/proxy/caching accelarator.

Ah, thanks, that is good to know. I had not thought of it.

> Some managers for some reason believe that having products from a big
> vendor means there is someone to hold responsible when things don't work
> or to call for help.  Now when they last managed to hold MS accountable
> for anything or got any real help out of them I don't know, but they
> still believe it works that way.  Apparently you just can't help
> certain people understand technology enough for them to actually make
> intelligent decisions.  This doesn't stop them from making decisions
> anyhow.

I agree. I think that the managers should be obliged to read and sign 
the EULA every time they purchase something with that license. It would 
also be an instructive exercise to call support with a small problem 
just to see how much elevator music one can listen to and to rediscover 
that computer support people try hard but that that's not enough most of 
the time.

thanks,
Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 20:55:40 2005
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:55:40 +0200 (IST)
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0503301142cc29bd5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca>  <f9870c01050330101458bd9a83@mail.gmail.com>
 <d6d6637f0503301142cc29bd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503302254070.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Christopher Browne wrote:

> Is there anything that we could say "systematically" about that?
>
> Like, are there smtp2 thru smtp7 that might also be alternatives?
>
> I recall hearing that they were rotating servers as they filled up
> with spam, so it wouldn't surprise me that there would be merit to
> going to one that has been most recently "cleaned up" in some
> manner...

I don't know if you are talking about 'internal' smtp. The mx for 
sympatico looks like this from here:

host -t mx sympatico.ca
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip3.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip4.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip5.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip6.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip7.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip8.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip1.bellnexxia.net.
sympatico.ca mail is handled by 5 toip2.bellnexxia.net.

hope this helps,
Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 21:05:48 2005
From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:05:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Talk on Asterisk and the Open Source Telephony Revolution
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.50.0503301558450.18294-100000@iran.unitycode.org>

In cooperation with TAUG[1], TLUG[2], and ON-Asterisk[3]...

Mark Spencer, the creator of Asterisk and founder of Digium will be
giving a talk on Asterisk and the Open Source Telephony Revolution.

Please RSVP by sending email to asterisk-talk-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org

About Asterisk (from asterisk.org):

Asterisk is a complete PBX in software. It runs on Linux and provides all
of the features you would expect from a PBX and more. Asterisk does voice
over IP in three protocols, and can interoperate with almost all
standards-based telephony equipment using relatively inexpensive
hardware.

Asterisk provides Voicemail services with Directory, Call Conferencing,
Interactive Voice Response, Call Queuing. It has support for three-way
calling, caller ID services, ADSI, SIP and H.323 (as both client and
gateway).

When:

7:30pm, Thursday April 21st, 2005

Where:

Metro Hall, Room 310
55 John Street
Toronto, ON
M5V 3C6

Metro Hall is located on the south-east corner of King and John, two
blocks east of Spadina.

Public Transit: Take the subway to St. Andrew, then walk through "The
PATH" to Metro Hall or walk above ground 2 blocks west.

[1] Toronto Asterisk PBX Users Group, http://opensource.meetup.com/42/
[2] Toronto Linux Users Group, http://tlug.ss.org
[3] Ontario Asterisk and VoIP Enthusiasts Group, http://uc.org/asterisk
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 22:03:55 2005
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:03:55 -0500
Subject: Interesting wrt switching from IIS to Solaris as web server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503302246110.921-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503292325210.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <20050330202558.GB14925@lupus.perlwolf.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.60.0503302246110.921@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f05033014033827acea@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:48:13 +0200 (IST), Peter <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I know that, I was not referring to the technical aspects. I thought
> that someone wise enough to generate content that would serve cleanly
> from Apache would know better than to lock users into a specific
> browser. I am assuming that the content writers must have some knowledge
> of the server capabilities to make their sites work. Don't they bother
> or aren't they allowed to.

When I produce "content," I really don't need to know anything about
the "server capabilities."

I have had very little call to need to treat the HTTP server as being
anything smarter than a pure file server, thus...

 - I want to have documents "served up," so I create a bunch of files

 - They get plunked into a few directories to organize different forms
of content.

When the material is in that form, there isn't reason to care about
the differences between IIS, Apache, boa, khttpd, or, for that matter,
serving files up via NFS to a web browser that can look at things
'locally.'

There is a time and place to be more "intimate" with the details of
the server, but my feeling is that if I don't _really_ need to care,
then I won't.

It hasn't steered me wrong, thus far; there are quite a number of
categories where, if you search for certain topics on Google, pages at
my web site are likely to be amongst the top "hits," if not #1...
-- 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"The true  measure of a  man is how he treats  someone who can  do him
absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 23:09:06 2005
From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:09:06 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
Message-ID: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>

Everyone,

I'm normally just a lurker on the list, but I've been having some fun
implementing thin-clients where I work.  They told me to cut my budget
for new computers so I am working on a way to get older hardware to stay
useful for longer periods of time.

The thin-clients work great.  However, when a user wants to use KDE, I
haven't been able to figure out how to get sound to work.  I can get
individual applications to work by pointing the sound to esd on the
thin-client.  KDE seems to indicate that ARTS can be used in a network
environment, but I have had trouble finding any documentation on it.

To initiate a further discussion, gnome just works.  It seems to
identify the underlying sound system and picks it up just fine.

Does anyone have any pointers on where to look for information.

Thanks,
-- 
Phil Kay <pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>

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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 23:16:32 2005
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:16:32 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <1112224146.5926.4.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
Message-ID: <11010284301.20050330181632@rogers.com>


Wednesday, March 30, 2005, 6:09:06 PM, you wrote:

PK> Everyone,

PK> I'm normally just a lurker on the list, but I've been having some fun
PK> implementing thin-clients where I work.  They told me to cut my budget
PK> for new computers so I am working on a way to get older hardware to stay
PK> useful for longer periods of time.

PK> The thin-clients work great.  However, when a user wants to use KDE, I
PK> haven't been able to figure out how to get sound to work.  I can get
PK> individual applications to work by pointing the sound to esd on the
PK> thin-client.  KDE seems to indicate that ARTS can be used in a network
PK> environment, but I have had trouble finding any documentation on it.

PK> To initiate a further discussion, gnome just works.  It seems to
PK> identify the underlying sound system and picks it up just fine.

PK> Does anyone have any pointers on where to look for information.

PK> Thanks,


 Phil,

  I know that - on some distros - the default mixer settings on KDE
  have the volume set to zero for some reason (I seem to recall
  Mandrake being one of those affected).  You may have checked this
  already, but it's worth a look.

  Matt

-- 

Matt Cahill
                      m dash cahill at rogers dot com


"It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise
 one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy.
 It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience."
 - A. Crowley

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From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Mar 30 23:46:05 2005
From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:46:05 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <11010284301.20050330181632-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <11010284301.20050330181632@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>

On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 18:16 -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
>  Phil,
> 
>   I know that - on some distros - the default mixer settings on KDE
>   have the volume set to zero for some reason (I seem to recall
>   Mandrake being one of those affected).  You may have checked this
>   already, but it's worth a look.
> 
>   Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the response.  We're using SuSE Server (I suppose I should
have mentioned that in the details) and the mixer settings on it are
fine (but I don't think that shouldn't affect anything) and using aumix
on the thin-client have the sounds fine as well.  XMMS plays just fine
if I use the esd output and point it to the thin-client ip address.

I don't think it is a mixer setting.  The real issue is how to get the
ARTS sound system that advertises the ability to do network sound
configured to use it.  There is a check box to "Enable Network Sound" in
the sound system settings in the KDE control center, but I can't find
anything on what that setting means or if there are any other settings
that need be configured.

-- 
Phil Kay <pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>

--
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 00:01:06 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:01:06 +0000
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <1112226366.5926.10.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <11010284301.20050330181632@rogers.com> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
Message-ID: <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 30, 2005 11:46 pm, Phil Kay wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 18:16 -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
> >  Phil,
> >
> >   I know that - on some distros - the default mixer settings on KDE
> >   have the volume set to zero for some reason (I seem to recall
> >   Mandrake being one of those affected).  You may have checked this
> >   already, but it's worth a look.
> >
> >   Matt
>
> Matt,
>
> Thanks for the response.  We're using SuSE Server (I suppose I should
> have mentioned that in the details) and the mixer settings on it are
> fine (but I don't think that shouldn't affect anything) and using aumix
> on the thin-client have the sounds fine as well.  XMMS plays just fine
> if I use the esd output and point it to the thin-client ip address.
>
> I don't think it is a mixer setting.  The real issue is how to get the
> ARTS sound system that advertises the ability to do network sound
> configured to use it.  There is a check box to "Enable Network Sound" in
> the sound system settings in the KDE control center, but I can't find
> anything on what that setting means or if there are any other settings
> that need be configured.

On your thin client you will need to have aRtsd running, as well as on the 
thin client server. Gnome uses Esd or "Enlightened Sound Daemon". Maybe you 
have Esd running on your thin client setup, but not aRtsd. It depends on how 
you setup your client software.

From my experience, aRtsd is a real PAIN to setup for network sound.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 02:16:50 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:16:50 +0000
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <200503310001.06137.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 31, 2005 12:01 am, Jason Shein wrote:
> On March 30, 2005 11:46 pm, Phil Kay wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 18:16 -0500, Matt Cahill wrote:
> > >  Phil,
> > >
> > >   I know that - on some distros - the default mixer settings on KDE
> > >   have the volume set to zero for some reason (I seem to recall
> > >   Mandrake being one of those affected).  You may have checked this
> > >   already, but it's worth a look.
> > >
> > >   Matt
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for the response.  We're using SuSE Server (I suppose I should
> > have mentioned that in the details) and the mixer settings on it are
> > fine (but I don't think that shouldn't affect anything) and using aumix
> > on the thin-client have the sounds fine as well.  XMMS plays just fine
> > if I use the esd output and point it to the thin-client ip address.
> >
> > I don't think it is a mixer setting.  The real issue is how to get the
> > ARTS sound system that advertises the ability to do network sound
> > configured to use it.  There is a check box to "Enable Network Sound" in
> > the sound system settings in the KDE control center, but I can't find
> > anything on what that setting means or if there are any other settings
> > that need be configured.
>
> On your thin client you will need to have aRtsd running, as well as on the
> thin client server. Gnome uses Esd or "Enlightened Sound Daemon". Maybe you
> have Esd running on your thin client setup, but not aRtsd. It depends on
> how you setup your client software.
>
> From my experience, aRtsd is a real PAIN to setup for network sound.

It seems that aRts is no longer maintained, and the website has been taken 
down. 

In a post to kde-core-devel Stefan Westerfeld, author of the KDE multimedia 
framework aRts, announced that he would no longer be maintaining it. 
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=110200188523177&w=2

I located the google cache of the relevant pages of the manual found here:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Z5XJggHTr8sJ:www.arts-project.org/doc
/handbook/faq-network.html+site:arts-project.org&hl=en

Might be of some assistance.

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 02:13:33 2005
From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:13:33 -0500
Subject: Linux World Expo conference -- discount code information included
Message-ID: <424B5CCD.7040608@pobox.com>

Hello everyone...

I've been asked to pass along a bit of information regarding the 
LinuxWorld Conference & Expo, http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/ , April 
18 - 20 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre downtown.

If you're interested in attending, you can use discount code: A101
at http://www.exporeg.com/lwnw to get a 25% discount on whatever 
conference package you choose.  (The discount code only applies to 
pre-registration; you can't use it for at-the-door registration.)

If you're interested in attending the trade-show then to get in free you 
can print off the PDF at http://www.linux.ca/tmp/pass.pdf and present it 
at the door.

I have been asked to present a BOF session (Birds-Of-a-Feather) at 
5:30pm Tue 19 April, regarding things Perl:  a description of the Perl 
language and where it fits into the Open Source ecosphere, the nature of 
the Perl community, the nature and history of the YAPC conference, the 
Toronto Perl Mongers and the world-wide Perl Monger movement.

Cheers,
Richard

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From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 02:25:08 2005
From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:25:08 -0500
Subject: Linux World Expo conference -- discount code information included
In-Reply-To: <424B5CCD.7040608-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <424B5CCD.7040608@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <96aa4e8f050330182514f3240c@mail.gmail.com>

For those that have been to the Conference before, how useful is the
plain Exhibit Hall admission?

Igor
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From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 02:28:40 2005
From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:28:40 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <200503310216.50780.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
	 <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
Message-ID: <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>

On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 02:16 +0000, Jason Shein wrote:

> It seems that aRts is no longer maintained, and the website has been taken 
> down. 
> 
> In a post to kde-core-devel Stefan Westerfeld, author of the KDE multimedia 
> framework aRts, announced that he would no longer be maintaining it. 
> http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=110200188523177&w=2
> 
> I located the google cache of the relevant pages of the manual found here:
> 
> http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Z5XJggHTr8sJ:www.arts-project.org/doc
> /handbook/faq-network.html+site:arts-project.org&hl=en
> 
> Might be of some assistance.
> 

Yep, that helps.  Although with it not being maintained at this point,
it might not be worth pursuing.  Thanks for digging up the info.

Now the next battle is to convince more Windows users on old boxes to
switch over to Linux thin clients.  We've got some willing people. Our
biggest fear is attempting it and not doing a quality job.  Once people
get a bad taste in their mouth it is sometimes hard to shake it.

-- 
Phil Kay <pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 02:51:26 2005
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:51:26 -0500
Subject: Linux World Expo conference -- discount code information
 included
In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f050330182514f3240c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <424B5CCD.7040608@pobox.com> <96aa4e8f050330182514f3240c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <424B65AE.4030903@rogers.com>

Igor Denisov wrote:
> For those that have been to the Conference before, how useful is the
> plain Exhibit Hall admission?

There's lot of free stuff to see.
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From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 03:25:13 2005
From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:25:13 -0500
Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology?
Message-ID: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net>

Judging from the job ads on this site they are heavily committed to .NET.

Maybe too late now but we should be lobbying for this to be based on open 
formats and standards.

bob
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From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 03:31:35 2005
From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:31:35 -0500
Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology?
In-Reply-To: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <20050331032430.04C161D1463@outbox.allstream.net>

Oops forgot the all important link.

http://www.thinksmart.ca

bob

On March 30, 2005 10:25 pm, you wrote:
> Judging from the job ads on this site they are heavily committed to .NET.
>
> Maybe too late now but we should be lobbying for this to be based on open
> formats and standards.
>
> bob
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 13:04:15 2005
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:04:15 -0500
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
Message-ID: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I forwarded this on to the powers that be for posting to the TLUG-Announce
mailing list a few days ago, so far without results. So in the mean time,
here is an update for those on the "main" TLUG list....

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

April 18 - 20, 2005 the Linux World Canada tradeshow / conference will be
run at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. TLUG will be running a booth
during the trade show part of this event (April 19th and 20th).

For an overview of the event, and a schedule conference proceedings have a
look at : http://www.linuxworldcanada.com

Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade
show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/

As a second goodie, as a TLUG member, if you pre-register for any (or all)
of the conference events you can get 25% off the conference charges by
entering the discount code: A101

Below you will see the official announcement from the LinuxWorld Staff.

Beyond this, if you would like to volunteer to help with the TLUG booth at
LinuxWorld Canada there will be an organisational meeting at the Duke of
Kent Pub 2315 Yonge Street (one block north of Eglinton Ave.), March 31st
2005 starting at 7:30 PM. Please let Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org)
know if your planning to come to the organisational meeting so he can tell
the pub know how many places to reserve for the meeting, and pass on some
background information.

Colin McGregor

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

LinuxWorld Canada Conference & Expo 2005
                                    and
     NetworkWorld Conference & Expo 2005
 April 18-20, 2005 - Metro Toronto Convention Centre, North Bldg

The #1 largest Linux/Open Source IT event in Canada! LinuxWorld Conference &
Expo Canada is the key trade show and conference for management and IT
professionals to learn  about Linux & Open Source applications and
solutions.  The world renowned event zeros in  on technology hot spots
security, storage, network management, communications, desktop, data
management, CRM/ERP, wireless, IP, web/internet services, and clustering.
Exceptional educational programming, dynamic keynotes, case studies,
tutorials and hands on workshops provide invaluable information about
implementation, total cost of ownership, ROI, distribution and more. The
trade show of 20,000 sq. ft of exhibits featuring experts from 150+ leading
companies all under one roof completes the event.

Platinum Sponsors: Novell, IBM, HP & CISCO

*Each of these sponsors is giving a Keynote Presentation that is available
for Free to all registrants

All this under one roof - A Total Linux Experience!

TLUG members receive FREE trade show pre-registration and a 25% discount off
pre-registration on all seminars/tutorials at the conference. Please use
code: A101 when registering

Detailed Information

Location: Metro Toronto Convention Centre, North Building

Conference: April 18-20, 2005
Trade Show: April 19-20, 2005

Website: www.linuxworldcandaa.com

Your Connection to Today's Applications & Solutions - Register Today!

REGISTER TODAY! www.exporeg.com/lwnw


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 15:24:04 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:24:04 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <1112236120.7732.3.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
Message-ID: <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 09:28:40PM -0500, Phil Kay wrote:
> Now the next battle is to convince more Windows users on old boxes to
> switch over to Linux thin clients.  We've got some willing people. Our
> biggest fear is attempting it and not doing a quality job.  Once
> people get a bad taste in their mouth it is sometimes hard to shake
> it.

Depending on your licencing situation, they can use Linux thin-client,
and use 'rdesktop' to connect to Windows server.  Of course, all the
applications (Word, Office) would have to be installed on the server.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>, Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 16:19:45 2005
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:19:45 -0500
Subject: yum update needs so-and-so
Message-ID: <1112285985.14320.182.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com>

I've been using "yum update" every week on 2 machines. Both have the
same yum.conf. For some reason, one of them has started giving me grief
with hundreds of lines complaining about unresolved dependencies that
say things like
	Package openssl needs /bin/sh, this is not available.

Google reveals hundreds of references to "yum" and "is not available"
but I haven't found anything helpful. Any suggestions?
-- 
Sincerely,
Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826

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From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 16:48:28 2005
From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:48:28 -0500
Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers
In-Reply-To: <424AE64A.4000807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200503311148.28234.sniffy@rogers.com>

On March 30, 2005 12:47 pm, David J Patrick wrote:
> the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the
> last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail
> arriving late.
> I'm just sending this test to the list to see if it'll take 18hrs to
> rumble through, and the most recent postings I see (from any list) is
> yesterday 'round 5PM; that can't be right ! I'm sure once the MSN
> conversion is complete, this penguin will be out in the cold !
> djp
Have you complained to Bell about this? A friend of mine is having similar 
problems receiving email. He called and complained and got a month's free 
service.

-- chris
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 15:30:01 2005
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:30:01 -0500
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050331153001.GB2316@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote:
> Beyond this, if you would like to volunteer to help with the TLUG booth at
> LinuxWorld Canada there will be an organisational meeting at the Duke of
> Kent Pub 2315 Yonge Street (one block north of Eglinton Ave.), March 31st
> 2005 starting at 7:30 PM. Please let Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org)
> know if your planning to come to the organisational meeting so he can tell
> the pub know how many places to reserve for the meeting, and pass on some
> background information.

Mar 31 is today!  I'll be there. :-)
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 18:29:29 2005
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:29:29 -0500
Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology?
In-Reply-To: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <20050331182929.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 10:25:13PM -0500, bob wrote:
> Judging from the job ads on this site they are heavily committed to .NET.
> 
> Maybe too late now but we should be lobbying for this to be based on open 
> formats and standards.

Like java 10 years ago, it's Big Buzz Words, that managers like to hear,
so they declare 'make this work using that new .net stuff' since
obviously that new stuff must be better and save lots of time, and it
should be easy to hire someone with 2 decades of expereince even if it
was only announced last year. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 18:40:38 2005
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:40:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503311339270.18766@xword.rogers.com>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:

> Beyond this, if you would like to volunteer to help with the TLUG booth at
> LinuxWorld Canada there will be an organisational meeting at the Duke of
> Kent Pub 2315 Yonge Street (one block north of Eglinton Ave.), March 31st
> 2005 starting at 7:30 PM. Please let Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org)
> know if your planning to come to the organisational meeting so he can tell
> the pub know how many places to reserve for the meeting, and pass on some
> background information.

    I'll try to make it, but three deadlines have converged today.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 19:08:12 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503311339270.18766-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503311339270.18766@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311403230.8935@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

>    I'll try to make it, but three deadlines have converged today.

I can't make it to the meeting so it'd be good if a report was posted to 
the list.  I previously advised I'd be available to help at the TLUG stall 
as I'm doing a BOF anyway.  It looks like my BOF is on the Tuesday April 
19 so this would be the best time for me to help out.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 21:13:17 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:13:17 -0500
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20050331211317.GA14666@free>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote:
> I forwarded this on to the powers that be for posting to the TLUG-Announce
> mailing list a few days ago, so far without results. So in the mean time,
> here is an update for those on the "main" TLUG list....

I wonder how many people like me didn't know/had forgotten that there is
(was) a TLUG-Announce mailing list?
 
> Beyond this, if you would like to volunteer to help with the TLUG booth at
> LinuxWorld Canada there will be an organisational meeting at the Duke of
> Kent Pub 2315 Yonge Street (one block north of Eglinton Ave.), March 31st
> 2005 starting at 7:30 PM. Please let Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org)
> know if your planning to come to the organisational meeting so he can tell
> the pub know how many places to reserve for the meeting, and pass on some
> background information.

Colin: I should be able to make it tonight (depends if I finish with a
client's wonderful Win98 machine in time) but even if I don't make it, I
am available to fill in a few time slots at the TLUG booth. With advance
notice my time is fairly flexible. 

Later,
Allen
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From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 21:13:09 2005
From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:13:09 -0500
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
Message-ID: <s24c21ac.073@mail.humeimaging.com>

Hey, kids!

Keep an eye out for this list when it's completed. Could come in handy:

"Top 11 tradeshow booth giveaways we'd like to see." www.nwc.com/top11

Cheers!

Gord Jeoffroy
I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc.
Phone: 416-921-7204 x225
Cell: 416-902-0920
Fax: 416-921-7386
Web: www.humeimaging.com



>>> agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org 03/31/05 04:13pm >>>
On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote:
> I forwarded this on to the powers that be for posting to the TLUG-Announce
> mailing list a few days ago, so far without results. So in the mean time,
> here is an update for those on the "main" TLUG list....

I wonder how many people like me didn't know/had forgotten that there is
(was) a TLUG-Announce mailing list?
 
> Beyond this, if you would like to volunteer to help with the TLUG booth at
> LinuxWorld Canada there will be an organisational meeting at the Duke of
> Kent Pub 2315 Yonge Street (one block north of Eglinton Ave.), March 31st
> 2005 starting at 7:30 PM. Please let Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeBhl2p70BpVqQ at public.gmane.orgm)
> know if your planning to come to the organisational meeting so he can tell
> the pub know how many places to reserve for the meeting, and pass on some
> background information.

Colin: I should be able to make it tonight (depends if I finish with a
client's wonderful Win98 machine in time) but even if I don't make it, I
am available to fill in a few time slots at the TLUG booth. With advance
notice my time is fairly flexible. 

Later,
Allen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org 
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 21:59:43 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:59:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050331165851.10416D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:
> Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade
> show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/

Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing
up for the trade show.  So to hell with them.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 22:03:51 2005
From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:03:51 -0500
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050331165851.10416D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050331165851.10416D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20050331220351.GA14738@free>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 04:59:43PM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:
> > Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade
> > show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/
> 
> Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing
> up for the trade show.  So to hell with them.


Funny, I registered earlier today for trade show only - no credit card
info - no problem.  ? ? Is it possible that a default of some kind was
selected in your case, that had to be cleared?

Allen
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From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 22:05:24 2005
From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:05:24 -0800
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <20050331220351.GA14738@free>
References: <002201c535f2$24f63480$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050331165851.10416D-100000@spsystems.net> <20050331220351.GA14738@free>
Message-ID: <20050331220524.GB32248@unleashed.org>

Allen Taylor (agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) [050331 14:04]:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 04:59:43PM -0500, Henry Spencer wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote:
> > > Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade
> > > show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/
> > 
> > Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing
> > up for the trade show.  So to hell with them.
> 
> Funny, I registered earlier today for trade show only - no credit card
> info - no problem.  ? ? Is it possible that a default of some kind was
> selected in your case, that had to be cleared?
> 
ditto
-- 
Must not turn into a snake.  It never helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Leah R. M. Cunningham  |  (heinous)@freenode #suse 
www.heinous.org        |  Linux geek, et al.        
--------------------------------------------------
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The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 22:13:51 2005
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:13:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada
In-Reply-To: <20050331220351.GA14738@free>
References: <20050331220351.GA14738@free>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1050331171240.10416F-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Allen Taylor wrote:
> > Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing
> > up for the trade show.  So to hell with them.
> 
> Funny, I registered earlier today for trade show only - no credit card
> info - no problem.  ? ? Is it possible that a default of some kind was
> selected in your case, that had to be cleared?

Nope, with Netscape, it absolutely will not budge, no matter how carefully
I check and set/unset the costly options.  However, it turns out to work
with Lynx...! 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 22:14:34 2005
From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:14:34 -0500
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <20050331152404.GA2316-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
	 <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
	 <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
	 <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>

On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 10:24 -0500, William Park wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 09:28:40PM -0500, Phil Kay wrote:
> > Now the next battle is to convince more Windows users on old boxes to
> > switch over to Linux thin clients.  We've got some willing people. Our
> > biggest fear is attempting it and not doing a quality job.  Once
> > people get a bad taste in their mouth it is sometimes hard to shake
> > it.
> 
> Depending on your licencing situation, they can use Linux thin-client,
> and use 'rdesktop' to connect to Windows server.  Of course, all the
> applications (Word, Office) would have to be installed on the server.
> 

The real good news is that we don't have any Windows servers in the
place at all.  We run Netware for file/print and Linux pretty much
everywhere else.  No, I repeat, no windows servers.  At least for now.  

I know this is getting off-topic, but I work for a small private
University and we're looking at replacing our centralized database app.
Most apps now that fill the areas we are examining run on MSSQL.  I
haven't found any open-source equivalent that I would consider mature
enough for our purposes.

-- 
Phil Kay <pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>

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From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 22:22:10 2005
From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:22:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <1112307275.5518.4.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> 
 <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>  <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca>
  <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca>  <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
  <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net> <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311720370.8935@mimosa.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Phil Kay wrote:

> I know this is getting off-topic, but I work for a small private
> University and we're looking at replacing our centralized database app.
> Most apps now that fill the areas we are examining run on MSSQL.  I
> haven't found any open-source equivalent that I would consider mature
> enough for our purposes.

You don't consider MySQL or Postgres mature enough for your purposes?  

What are your concerns?

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Mar 31 23:13:18 2005
From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:13:18 +0000
Subject: Thin Client and Sound
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311720370.8935-li5fIuchzwS0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311720370.8935@mimosa.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <200503312313.18594.jason@detachednetworks.ca>

On March 31, 2005 10:22 pm, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Phil Kay wrote:
> > I know this is getting off-topic, but I work for a small private
> > University and we're looking at replacing our centralized database app.
> > Most apps now that fill the areas we are examining run on MSSQL.  I
> > haven't found any open-source equivalent that I would consider mature
> > enough for our purposes.
>
> You don't consider MySQL or Postgres mature enough for your purposes?
>
> What are your concerns?
>
> Rob
This was in the news the other day, just in case these were your reasons.

-snip-

'Most important ever' MySQL reaches beta'

The open source database company says it is 'fixing 10 years of criticism in 
one release', and is aiming at boosting enterprise take-up.

"People have been criticizing MySQL since we started [in 1995] for not having 
stored procedures, triggers and views," said Axmark. "We're fixing 10 years 
of criticism in one release."

-snip-

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/applications/0,39020384,39192964,00.htm

-- 
Jason Shein
Director of Networking, Operations and Systems
Detached Networks
jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org
( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice
( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile
http://www.detachednetworks.ca
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