From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 00:14:19 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 20:14:19 -0400 Subject: June 1st In-Reply-To: <1f7ae1ac05053110371bc8234a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f7ae1ac05053110371bc8234a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050531171439d31d5f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/05, David Wells wrote: > Hello, > > I was wondering if anybody is attending the Hamilton LUG meeting on > June 1st from the Oakville area. If so, and you would like to carpool, > I would certainly chip in for gas. If you're stuck without a ride, you can get to McMaster University from Oakville: >From Oakville GO station, take the 407 Eastbound to the carpark at Trafalgar & the 407. From there, hop on the 407 Westbound to McMaster. It's bit of a hack, but it works. Could work for others in/near York U, Bramalea (Brampton), and Square One (Mississauga) as well. http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/access/lstserdt.asp?table=46&station= To send an RSVP for the dinner beforehand (Boston Pizza) to meet the folks and Dr. Salus, see the post at http://hamilton.linux.ca/viewtopic.php?t=42 -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 00:40:10 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 20:40:10 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> <20050519151026.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428DE7BD.7070508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <429D03EA.8090206@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > > I'm debating looking at a Mac Mini for this. That would definitely do > this kind of job, and sit there being tiny and quiet It would be about the same purchase price ($944 for the mac, appx $1040 for a top-of-the-line VIA mini-ITX system*). Don't forget the $150/year or so to keep your OS current on the Mac ... Stewart *: which would be: Board VIA SP13000 Case Casetronic C138 90W 512M Memory Kingston 512M 80GB drive Toshiba 80GB 5400rpm (notebook-sized) DVD+-RW Panasonic UJ-845-B, prices from -- it could probably be done cheaper, and the slow notebook drive would be an expensive pain, especially when the SP13000 has SATA. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 00:41:20 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 20:41:20 -0400 Subject: Mailing lists software alternatives In-Reply-To: <1117514257.17356.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1117514257.17356.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0505311741407fa37d@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/05, Sergey Semenyuk wrote: > Hi, > > Are there any good alternatives to mailman available. what are the pros > and cons. Although I am happy with mailman, I still would like to know > what else is on the opensource market. My searched lead me to very few > options. Haven't tried running it yet, but I was looking at Sympa a couple weeks ago: http://www.sympa.org/features.html -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 02:45:07 2005 From: kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B B) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 19:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050601024507.50553.qmail@web51603.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > > > I'm debating looking at a Mac Mini for this. That > would definitely do > > this kind of job, and sit there being tiny and > quiet > > It would be about the same purchase price ($944 for > the mac, appx $1040 > for a top-of-the-line VIA mini-ITX system*). Don't > forget the $150/year > or so to keep your OS current on the Mac ... > > Stewart > > *: which would be: > Board VIA SP13000 > Case Casetronic C138 90W > 512M Memory Kingston 512M > 80GB drive Toshiba 80GB 5400rpm (notebook-sized) > DVD+-RW Panasonic UJ-845-B, > prices from -- it could > probably be done > cheaper, and the slow notebook drive would be an > expensive pain, > especially when the SP13000 has SATA. > -- I was waiting to jump in on this one. That $150 would be every two years and it is not to "keep your OS current" which is free but to get the latest new version and tons of add on software, but since we are Linux here Christopher would want to run Yellow Dog or some other PPC distro. The mini also has a notebook drive but you can always plug additional drives into the included firewire connector which your mobo lacks. Most of the multimedia apps are already running on PPC, I use mplayer and have had no problems with it. I am looking forward to running my completed project on a mini but I am developing it on a four year old G4. All together the mini is a killer machine and closer to a real unix server than a pc anyday the fact that it is so small and uses only 12 watts is icing on the cake. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 03:15:47 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:15:47 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <20050601024507.50553.qmail-VOEogK9N4uuA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601024507.50553.qmail@web51603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429D2863.6010304@sympatico.ca> B B wrote: > > I was waiting to jump in on this one. That $150 would > be every two years and it is not to "keep your OS > current" which is free ... No, it's not. We own an eMac running 10.1.15. There have been no updates to this for months, and we can't run the most recent version of iTunes. Getting hardware to run on it -- which should be a simple case of a driver -- often requires checking that 10.1.x is still supported. So it's not free to keep it current, as most Linux users are familiar with keeping an OS current. And if you check the release dates (like here: ), it is about annually: "Version 10.1 shipped around September 25, 2001, followed by the August 24, 2002 release of Mac OS X 10.2 ("Jaguar") and the October 24, 2003 release of Mac OS X 10.3 ("Panther"). Apple released Mac OS X 10.4 ("Tiger") on April 29, 2005". > ... the included firewire connector which your mobo lacks. The SP13000 has onboard 1394. I know -- slightly -- of what I speak. > All together the mini is a killer machine and closer > to a real unix server than a pc anyday the fact that > it is so small and uses only 12 watts is icing on the cake. Jings, you've really gone for the lithium lick, haven't you? I've seen the figure of 25 watts quoted for an idling Mac Mini; 12 would barely power a USB port. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 04:22:50 2005 From: kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B B) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 21:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050601042250.81765.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > B B wrote: > > > > I was waiting to jump in on this one. That $150 > would > > be every two years and it is not to "keep your OS > > current" which is free ... > > No, it's not. We own an eMac running 10.1.15. There > have been no updates > to this for months, and we can't run the most recent > version of iTunes. > Getting hardware to run on it -- which should be a > simple case of a > driver -- often requires checking that 10.1.x is > still supported. > > So it's not free to keep it current, as most Linux > users are familiar > with keeping an OS current. > > And if you check the release dates (like here: > ), > it is about > annually: "Version 10.1 shipped around September 25, > 2001, followed by > the August 24, 2002 release of Mac OS X 10.2 > ("Jaguar") and the October > 24, 2003 release of Mac OS X 10.3 ("Panther"). Apple > released Mac OS X > 10.4 ("Tiger") on April 29, 2005". > > > ... the included firewire connector which your > mobo lacks. > > The SP13000 has onboard 1394. I know -- slightly -- > of what I speak. > > > All together the mini is a killer machine and > closer > > to a real unix server than a pc anyday the fact > that > > it is so small and uses only 12 watts is icing on > the cake. > > Jings, you've really gone for the lithium lick, > haven't you? I've seen > the figure of 25 watts quoted for an idling Mac > Mini; 12 would barely > power a USB port. > Stewart Ok lets split the difference on the update dates, it seems longer to me, must be the reality distortion field. I got the 12 watts from this link http://www.home.earthlink.net/~silasb/macbat/ which looked like a real world test. Ah, your mobo does have 1394 sorry, looks like a nice all in one unit. Have you tested one? I have yet to boot linux on the mini but I have been putting linux on macs for many years and expect things to work from what I have read. Too bad about your emacs, I have told itunes to stop suggesting upgrading until I can be bothered and I have 10.3 my Tiger is still sitting here in the box waiting, Panther will be fine for now. I am not too keen on rapidly upgrading OSX and its components anyway and I rather play with linux and keep my personal desktop sacred. Chers, BB __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 12:54:24 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:54:24 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <429D03EA.8090206-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <428B35DF.5050108@sympatico.ca> <200505180845.57001.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <428B9D4E.2090704@sympatico.ca> <428C0498.1040108@sympatico.ca> <20050519151026.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <428DE7BD.7070508@sympatico.ca> <429D03EA.8090206@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050601125424.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 31, 2005 at 08:40:10PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > It would be about the same purchase price ($944 for the mac, appx $1040 > for a top-of-the-line VIA mini-ITX system*). Don't forget the $150/year > or so to keep your OS current on the Mac ... It runs Debian/PPC very nicely actually. That is free to maintain. I know a number of Mac OS X users that have switched to Debian on their macs because they got fed up with the limitations of Mac OS X. Sure you don't get the same level of integration with Linux on the mac, but it does work rather well, and gives you more control over everything. And there is Mac on Linux you can use to boot Mac OS X off your current install while running Linux and it runs VERY well. That way you can yuour osx desktop in a window of X while running linux at the same time and both seem to run at perfectly normal speed. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 12:58:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:58:20 -0400 Subject: mini-ITX graphics woes In-Reply-To: <429D2863.6010304-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601024507.50553.qmail@web51603.mail.yahoo.com> <429D2863.6010304@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050601125820.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 31, 2005 at 11:15:47PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Jings, you've really gone for the lithium lick, haven't you? I've seen > the figure of 25 watts quoted for an idling Mac Mini; 12 would barely > power a USB port. It better power a USB port. The max current draw on one USB port is 1A 5V so 5W max, and most devices for USB are supposed to be limited to 100mA each, so your mouse and keyboard combined should not even use 1W from USB. I think 25W for a complete mac mini makes more sense given the ram/cpu/hd it has in it. If you replace the HD with a flash based drive, remove the dvd, then maybe you can get idle down to 12W, depending on just how idle you make the system (kill anything you don't need). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 18:15:43 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:15:43 -0400 Subject: presenting Linux to Windows admins In-Reply-To: References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <429A7497.6000603@quadratic.net> <1117464517.8455.50.camel@holden.weait.net> <1117471623.8455.78.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050530183912.GA2270@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 5/30/05, Peter wrote: > > [..] > > I do not know where the 'calling them stupid' part came in, I certainly > did not imply this. The point is that they are used to use a gui for > everyting and, to make the bitter pill of 95% non-gui admin on Linux > easier to swallow, one should show them that the OS can do gui but that > there is another way (more than one), that text editors like vi are > completely usable after one learns 6 simple commands, etc. Having used Linux for the last seven years, I can say that I'm still learning all there is to know about being a Sysadmin. And vi, while a powerful editor, can get confusing really fast if you get your modes mixed up -- Typing any word while in command mode (rather than insert mode) is guaranteed to mess things up fast. I still find myself in vi (vim, actually) staring at a screen that has definitely not 'quit' -- so I press 'q' again, confirm that I see 'recording' at the bottom, nod to myself, press 'q' again, then a colon, and finally 'q' to quit. I assume there's some kind of macro feature in vim -- I've never used it. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 18:18:16 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) Message-ID: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hi guys, My client would like some references of enterprises that have successfully implemented "bet-your-business" systems using Open Source products. Please contact me off-board if you can provide me with any success stories. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 18:24:43 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:24:43 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <1117650283.429dfd6b41ecd@geek-girls.ca> Nortel's BCM50 small office telephony server is quite "loud and proud" about running Linux. Have a look: http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/events/2005a/cala_eseminars/apr29pt/collateral/bcm50_eseminar_brazil_pt2.pdf -Leigh Quoting Francois Ouellette : > Hi guys, > > My client would like some references of enterprises that have successfully > implemented "bet-your-business" systems using Open Source products. > > Please contact me off-board if you can provide me with any success stories. > > Thanks, > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 18:50:02 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050601185002.6950.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> - Amazon, Google, eBay, Yahoo and every other web company? - financial institutions (don't remember the name of a particular bank but there is at least one) & stock market organization (was it NASDAQ?) - local, provincial and national governments: Munich, Extremadura and Andalucia (Spain), Brazil... - tech companies: too many to mention (IBM...) etc some random links: http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/03/24/2056230.shtml?tid=74&tid=132 http://www.cio.com/archive/030104/open.html http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/2287 There are so many companies that succesfully use open source software that maybe the question is: what reference companies are NOT using it? fernando --- Francois Ouellette wrote: > Hi guys, > > My client would like some references of enterprises > that have successfully > implemented "bet-your-business" systems using Open > Source products. > > Please contact me off-board if you can provide me > with any success stories. > > Thanks, > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 19:23:29 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:23:29 +0300 (IDT) Subject: presenting Linux to Windows admins In-Reply-To: References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <429A7497.6000603@quadratic.net> <1117464517.8455.50.camel@holden.weait.net> <1117471623.8455.78.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050530183912.GA2270@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Alex Beamish wrote: > I still find myself in vi (vim, actually) staring at a screen that has > definitely not 'quit' -- so I press 'q' again, confirm that I see > 'recording' at the bottom, nod to myself, press 'q' again, then a > colon, and finally 'q' to quit. I assume there's some kind of macro > feature in vim -- I've never used it. Easy rhyme: three escapes and you're clear (in browse mode). vi macros are well worth learning. They make things easy with repetitive commands. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 19:55:34 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: presenting Linux to Windows admins In-Reply-To: References: <428DDDA2.6000004@rogers.com> <429A7497.6000603@quadratic.net> <1117464517.8455.50.camel@holden.weait.net> <1117471623.8455.78.camel@holden.weait.net> <20050530183912.GA2270@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <25770.206.186.8.130.1117655734.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > > Easy rhyme: three escapes and you're clear (in browse mode). vi macros > are well worth learning. They make things easy with repetitive commands. > > Peter > -- Easy to remember how to quit: from vi/vim: think of CALL ON QUIT and type: :quit (ouch...) Fran?ois Ouellette "If you want creative workers, give them enough time to play." -- JOHN CLEESE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 20:37:41 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:37:41 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <1117650283.429dfd6b41ecd-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40690.206.186.8.130.1117649896.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1117650283.429dfd6b41ecd@geek-girls.ca> Message-ID: <20050601203741.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 02:24:43PM -0400, Leigh Honeywell wrote: > Nortel's BCM50 small office telephony server is quite "loud and proud" about > running Linux. Have a look: > > http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/events/2005a/cala_eseminars/apr29pt/collateral/bcm50_eseminar_brazil_pt2.pdf That is rather different than the BCM3000 (hardware might have been BCM200) which ran Win NT 4 with a dreadful java interface. It does look like the dreadful java interface survived the transition unfortunately. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 21:08:33 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:08:33 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT ) Message-ID: What kind of system are you referring to? -----Original Message----- From: Francois Ouellette [mailto:fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 1, 2005 2:18 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) Hi guys, My client would like some references of enterprises that have successfully implemented "bet-your-business" systems using Open Source products. Please contact me off-board if you can provide me with any success stories. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:429dfbf995142157610234! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 21:13:59 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:13:59 +0300 (IDT) Subject: bash enhancements: history Message-ID: I had proposed that various instances of bash exit and save their respective histories in the ~/.bash_history file. I think that I found a way to do this (error checking omitted in code below): fd = open( "~/.bash_history", O_RDWR|O_CREAT, S_IRUSR|S_IWUSR ); flock( fd, LOCK_EX ); append_history( history_length, "~/.bash_history" ); flock( fd, LOCK_UN ); close( fd ); this is simple enough to patch into bash, no ? (is this use of flock safe ? what if append_history uses flock() itself ?) The issue of identifying the instance in the saved history list is not addressed. It could be addressed by adding a log entry like: now = time(); sprintf( buf, "# %s: bash(%d) exiting", ctime( &now ), getpid() ); add_history( buf ); before running the code above. When loaded in the history of a next instance it would appear as a comment line and do nothing if recalled by mistake. A similar entry could be added to the history when the shell starts (immediately after using_history(); ), with the effect of bracketing the commands used by a certain instance. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 21:30:52 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:30:52 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) References: Message-ID: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> RE: [TLUG]: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT)Enterprise systems, admin, database, desktop, anything that makes a business work and keeps it running! Fran?ois Ouellette ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillip Qin To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Sent: Wednesday, 01 June, 2005 17:08 Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) What kind of system are you referring to? -----Original Message----- From: Francois Ouellette [mailto:fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 1, 2005 2:18 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) Hi guys, My client would like some references of enterprises that have successfully implemented "bet-your-business" systems using Open Source products. Please contact me off-board if you can provide me with any success stories. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:429dfbf995142157610234! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 1/6/05 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 1 21:54:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:54:06 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 05:30:52PM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > RE: [TLUG]: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT)Enterprise systems, admin, database, desktop, anything that makes a business work and keeps it running! Well I used to work at a company that built the system futurephoto runs on (Futureshop's online photo system for storing images and getting real photos printed from digital images). It uses apache+php4 for the server and scripting, ghostscript (gs-esp as far as I recall) to render crops, imagemagick, jpegtools and netpnm-tools for manipulating images, postgresql for the database, debian for the linux os, a few small custom applications for doing additional tweaks for photo enhancement to pnm streams on the way through the pipe, a few custom windows programs to run on the kodak DLS systems that run the photo lab system to let it receive orders from the linux system, and of course a whole lot of bash, perl and php scripts to provide the whole user interface and backend of the system. Last I talked to anyone they had passed 2TB of images stored, and I suspect they may have gone quite a bit past that by now. The postgresql database has since been replaced by oracle since that is what futureshop uses for their main web site, and replication isn't something postgresql really does yet. Having an active mirrored database was always something we wanted but didn't have. The file storage moved from a linux server doing nfs with fibre channel connection to an ibm SAN to a pair of solaris systems with veritas since they could do live failover of nfs and share the san drives using veritas. Not that the linux system ever had a failure that needed moving to the backup fileserver, but it was nice to know that it was there when needed. Load balancing was initially done with iptables and iproute, but later was taken over by a dedicated pair of serveriron loadbalancers, again for redundancy reasons and it was what they were used to from their main site (which by the way is running IIS as far as I know). Overall lots of opensource software doing the work, and initially all open source, only being replaced at a later point to privide redundant systems in case of hardware failure. Looking at the old site (before they were bought out by best buy/futureshop because they really liked the system) and it appears they are now Siberra (which appears to be still a division of bestbuy/futureshop given the number of opengraphics and futureshop people I see on the site) and they have a press release about doing a photo storage site for rogers. I was wondering what system rogers was using to do their photo storage, and now I think I know. Probably the same one built on open source tools as we did for futureshop (and a few other smaller clients around the world). Certainly looking at the features and choices of prints from rogers's photo site, it looks to be the same system, with yet another interface (good thing it was made modular to allow new interfaces to be added on). So at least in the online photo handling it looks like a lot of companies are relying on open source to do the work. I don't know if they realize it or not, or even care, as long as it is always up and running and working for them. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 02:26:50 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:26:50 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050601185002.6950.qmail-048g3Eq9BqWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601185002.6950.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200506012226.51165.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 1, 2005 02:50 pm, F. Duran wrote: > - financial institutions (don't remember the name of a > particular bank but there is at least one) & stock > market organization (was it NASDAQ?) You're probably thinking about Morgan Stanley, I believe 6,000+ servers running highly modified Redhat with AFS. I believe there are other Wall Street companies using Linux as well. I suspect that you'd be hard to find any financial institution that could survive if all the OSS software went poof (OSS meaning not just Linux). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 02:45:49 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:45:49 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <200506012226.51165.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>; from fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org on Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 10:26:50PM -0400 References: <20050601185002.6950.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> <200506012226.51165.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20050601224549.E4337@diamond.ss.org> Goldman and Sach also has a couple of thousand linux servers. TheNew York Stock exchange moved (if they have completed) to linux for the settlement system. Generally any place where proprietary UNIX is used with inhouse software, linux is a better choice for the system. For the record: db/2, Oracle, Informix, and Sybase all provide linux database servers, so migrating is usually fairly painless (normally a recompile, unless your software is using some weird part of the OS your moving from). In one case I know where it wasn't painless. Bill On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 10:26:50PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On June 1, 2005 02:50 pm, F. Duran wrote: > > > - financial institutions (don't remember the name of a > > particular bank but there is at least one) & stock > > market organization (was it NASDAQ?) > > You're probably thinking about Morgan Stanley, I believe 6,000+ servers > running highly modified Redhat with AFS. I believe there are other Wall > Street companies using Linux as well. > > I suspect that you'd be hard to find any financial institution that could > survive if all the OSS software went poof (OSS meaning not just Linux). > > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 13:22:51 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050601224549.E4337-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601224549.E4337@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050602132251.20595.qmail@web60122.mail.yahoo.com> Let's add KeyWest Bank, E-Trade and Citigroup: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1822669,00.asp People like it and feel safe when financial institutions adopt something, since they are technologically "conservative". Fernando --- billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Goldman and Sach also has a couple of thousand > linux servers. TheNew York Stock exchange moved (if > they have completed) to linux for the settlement > system. > Generally any place where proprietary UNIX is used > with inhouse software, linux is a better choice for > the system. > > For the record: db/2, Oracle, Informix, and Sybase > all provide linux database servers, so migrating is > usually fairly painless (normally a recompile, > unless your software is using some weird part of the > OS your moving from). In one case I know where it > wasn't painless. > > Bill > > On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 10:26:50PM -0400, Fraser > Campbell wrote: > > On June 1, 2005 02:50 pm, F. Duran wrote: > > > > > - financial institutions (don't remember the > name of a > > > particular bank but there is at least one) & > stock > > > market organization (was it NASDAQ?) > > > > You're probably thinking about Morgan Stanley, I > believe 6,000+ servers > > running highly modified Redhat with AFS. I > believe there are other Wall > > Street companies using Linux as well. > > > > I suspect that you'd be hard to find any financial > institution that could > > survive if all the OSS software went poof (OSS > meaning not just Linux). > > > > -- > > Fraser Campbell > http://www.wehave.net/ > > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada > Debian GNU/Linux > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 14:23:38 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050602132251.20595.qmail-d+LCf2opG/yA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601224549.E4337@diamond.ss.org> <20050602132251.20595.qmail@web60122.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58712.206.186.8.130.1117722218.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Let's add KeyWest Bank, E-Trade and Citigroup: > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1822669,00.asp > > People like it and feel safe when financial > institutions adopt something, since they are > technologically "conservative". > > Fernando Resistance is futile... Thanks to all who have contributed! Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 15:55:31 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050601215406.GG23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <429F2BF3.9080404@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote; > The postgresql database has since been replaced by oracle since that is > what futureshop uses for their main web site, and replication isn't > something postgresql really does yet. Slony1 provides async replication for postgres. Prior to slony, there was ER-Server. There's also Mammoth Replicator which has been around for quite a while but is commercial software. If you want multi-master then you're right, there's nothing (yet) for postgres. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCnyvygfzn5SevSpoRAtFUAJoChTvSH2dkMDFUTBPZlDkoP2wBLgCgqJ/K prgPQ5KNU4oUJvRuQBkwbCA= =E5s7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 16:18:24 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:18:24 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050601215406.GG23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/1/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The postgresql database has since been replaced by oracle since that is > what futureshop uses for their main web site, and replication isn't > something postgresql really does yet. Having an active mirrored > database was always something we wanted but didn't have. Hum? PostgreSQL doesn't yet have anything meaningful in terms of answers for multimaster replication, but that represents a tough problem. (Albeit one where efforts are under way. ) There have historically been several ways of doing single-master replication, notably including: - eRServer - Mammoth Replicator - Slony-I -- http://linuxdatabases.info/info/slony.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 16:43:46 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:43:46 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <429F2BF3.9080404-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F2BF3.9080404@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050602164346.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 11:55:31AM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Slony1 provides async replication for postgres. Prior to slony, there > was ER-Server. There's also Mammoth Replicator which has been around for > quite a while but is commercial software. > > If you want multi-master then you're right, there's nothing (yet) for > postgres. At the time we did a running log of transactions at the application level, which could then be run against a backup server at regular intervals. ERserver and slony just weren't what we were looking for. Besides having the ability to query from multiple servers would have been great too, given we ended up running on a quad xeon HT (around 1.6ghz I think) to have fast enough response at busy times. The web servers and image processing was easy to distribute on multiple machines of course. Unfortunately I am quite aware how hard doing live syncrhonization of databases is, and I wouldn't want to try and implement it. Staying in sync is no big deal, but getting back in sync after downtime of one server is a nightmare when the system is in use. If you could pause it, stop the active one, copy it, then start them in sync it would be reasonably easy. That generally isn't what people want though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 16:47:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:47:06 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:18:24PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > PostgreSQL doesn't yet have anything meaningful in terms of answers > for multimaster replication, but that represents a tough problem. > (Albeit one where efforts are under way. > ) > > There have historically been several ways of doing single-master > replication, notably including: > - eRServer > - Mammoth Replicator > > - Slony-I Certainly 3 or 4 years ago none of them were capable enough to really be called live replication. Some even required adding all sorts of triggers and mess to yoru database whenever you created new tables, which was asking way too much when you were trying to keep things portable to another database if necesary. If a database goes down, the applications (clients) should be using the other one without really noticing anything had happened. When I looked at the solutions in opensource 3-4 years ago, nothing existed so we did the best we could with only one live database. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 17:56:31 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:56:31 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox Message-ID: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> How do you configure Firefox to display non-English fonts? I'm interested in Korean fonts, but the info is also relevant for Chinese or Japanese fonts. 1. I have English Firefox. When displaying Korean characters in webpage, it simply displays square box with hex numbers. When I go to Edit | Preferences | Fonts&Colors | Korean I'm given options of 'serif', 'san-serif', etc. which are the same selection for 'Western' case. Netscape-7.1 can display Korean characters. And, I'm given proper font selection (ie. daewoo-...) when I go under 'Fonts&Colors' menus. 2. I installed Korean language version of Firefox. Here, all menus are in Korean. But, all I see is, again, square boxes with hex numbers. Is there anyone here who has successfully configured Firefox to work with Chinese/Japanese/Korean language? I don't think you need special language version just to see the characters on screen. For inputing, you probably need a language version. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:09:08 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:09:08 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050602175631.GA2354-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050602180908.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 01:56:31PM -0400, William Park wrote: > How do you configure Firefox to display non-English fonts? I'm > interested in Korean fonts, but the info is also relevant for Chinese or > Japanese fonts. > > 1. I have English Firefox. When displaying Korean characters in > webpage, it simply displays square box with hex numbers. When I go > to > Edit | Preferences | Fonts&Colors | Korean > I'm given options of 'serif', 'san-serif', etc. which are the same > selection for 'Western' case. > > Netscape-7.1 can display Korean characters. And, I'm given proper > font selection (ie. daewoo-...) when I go under 'Fonts&Colors' > menus. > > 2. I installed Korean language version of Firefox. Here, all menus > are in Korean. But, all I see is, again, square boxes with hex > numbers. > > Is there anyone here who has successfully configured Firefox to work > with Chinese/Japanese/Korean language? I don't think you need special > language version just to see the characters on screen. For inputing, > you probably need a language version. It works here (on debian sarge) but I do have both unifont and msttcorefonts installed, both of which at least help many applications with getting nice fonts in multiple languages. I think x-ttcidfont-conf also hepls to allow X to use tt fonts. www.sony.co.jp at least looks like japaneese to me in firefox 1.0.4. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:12:27 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:12:27 +0300 (IDT) Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050602175631.GA2354-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: You need the font packages for Asian fonts loaded on your system. This is nothing to do with ff, it's a system thing. When installed they appear under xfontsel etc. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:15:40 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:15:40 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050602164706.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:18:24PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>PostgreSQL doesn't yet have anything meaningful in terms of answers >>for multimaster replication, but that represents a tough problem. >>(Albeit one where efforts are under way. >>) >> >>There have historically been several ways of doing single-master >>replication, notably including: >>- eRServer >>- Mammoth Replicator >> >>- Slony-I > > > Certainly 3 or 4 years ago none of them were capable enough to really be > called live replication. Some even required adding all sorts of > triggers and mess to yoru database whenever you created new tables, > which was asking way too much when you were trying to keep things > portable to another database if necesary. Mammoth Replicator has always been transparent (or nearly so) IIRC. Beyond the most trivial applications, inter-database portability does not exist. http://www.powerpostgresql.com/Downloads/database_depends_public.swf And that's the PHB friendly version. > If a database goes down, the applications (clients) should be using the > other one without really noticing anything had happened. When I looked > at the solutions in opensource 3-4 years ago, nothing existed so we did > the best we could with only one live database. That requires synchronous replication. Oracle RAC for example. Unless you're willing to allow for committed transactions to be lost on failover. To do RAC properly, you better forget running it on some pissy little quad Xeon box. And for those of you who think a quad xeon wasn't a pissy little box 3 or 4 years ago, we're talking about database servers here. Anyone who'd spec a quad xeon for database work is clearly incompetent. The Xeon's FSB architecture (even for NUMA Xeon systems) has totally insufficient IO capacity for serious database work. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCn0zMgfzn5SevSpoRAr4NAKDAX3mpXnijdSlc7Bg/yFbPGlNIZACgv7tO my30r+lR6cPkTM9zZa7TpKM= =46Bj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:36:36 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:36:36 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050602183636.GA2598@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 09:12:27PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > You need the font packages for Asian fonts loaded on your system. This > is nothing to do with ff, it's a system thing. When installed they > appear under xfontsel etc. I have standard Slackware, which comes with only fonts from XFree86 or Xorg. It comes with Korean 16pt and 24pt fonts (*-daewoo-*). How come Netscape-7.1 picks it up, but not Firefox? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:50:10 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:50:10 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050602180908.GJ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602180908.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <429F54E2.5050604@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > www.sony.co.jp at least looks like japaneese to me in firefox 1.0.4. Well, it would -- it's a Flash site. is HTML, and looks okay to me. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 18:53:10 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:53:10 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20050602164706.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <429F5596.4050106@istop.com> Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The point is, however, that I need a company that would be willing to take my own computer and just connect it to the net, with entire maintenance done by myself. zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 19:15:34 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:15:34 +0300 (IDT) Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050602183636.GA2598-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602183636.GA2598@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 09:12:27PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> >> You need the font packages for Asian fonts loaded on your system. This >> is nothing to do with ff, it's a system thing. When installed they >> appear under xfontsel etc. > > I have standard Slackware, which comes with only fonts from XFree86 or > Xorg. It comes with Korean 16pt and 24pt fonts (*-daewoo-*). How come > Netscape-7.1 picks it up, but not Firefox? I don't know. Did you try View->Character Encoding->Auto Detect->Korean ? Also maybe there is an issue with your document. Try to visit some Korean pages and see what happens. E.g. LG: http://www.lg.co.kr/korean/ which renders fine here, Tools->Page Info says Encoding = EUC-KR. Keep in mind that there are four different encodings for Korean. ff comes with its own font packages afaik, but I do not remember to have downloaded any extra fonts. And the daewoo fonts are not the ones used by ff. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 19:47:51 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:47:51 +0300 (IDT) Subject: c matters Message-ID: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/tcc/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 20:18:02 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:18:02 -0400 Subject: c matters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/2/05, Peter wrote: > http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/tcc/ The notion of using this to compile a Linux kernel on the fly as a sort of "super BIOS alternative" is one of the cooler ideas I have ever heard of... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 20:24:24 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <429F5596.4050106-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429F5596.4050106@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050602202424.65482.qmail@web60119.mail.yahoo.com> I have these two bookmarked: http://www.korax.net/services/colo/ http://mycybernet.net/business/co/index.htm I was also looking for a colocation site, let us know how it goes. Fernando --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The point > is, however, that I > need a company that would be willing to take my own > computer and just > connect it to the net, with entire maintenance done > by myself. > > zb. > > -- > Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business > Solutions > Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, > Networking > Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: > 1-416-530-2780 > Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, > info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 20:41:11 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:41:11 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20050602202424.65482.qmail-ym4y5dwnKZ2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602202424.65482.qmail@web60119.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429F6EE7.6020207@istop.com> F. Duran wrote: > I have these two bookmarked: > > http://www.korax.net/services/colo/ > http://mycybernet.net/business/co/index.htm > > I was also looking for a colocation site, let us know > how it goes. Thanks, Fernando. Very expensive. That is what I am already used to say about Canadian hosting. I am afraid I will go USA. See this: http://www.netmar.com/ zb. > Fernando > > > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >>Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The point >>is, however, that I >>need a company that would be willing to take my own >>computer and just >>connect it to the net, with entire maintenance done >>by myself. >> >>zb. >> >>-- >>Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business >>Solutions >>Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, >>Networking >>Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: >>1-416-530-2780 >>Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, >>info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 20:41:04 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Technical book store in GTA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050602204104.3241.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> book stores in Toronto: http://www.redtoronto.com/Arts_and_Entertainment/Books/category-64-2-1.htm?q= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 20:56:52 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <429F54E2.5050604-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602180908.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F54E2.5050604@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050602205652.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 02:50:10PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > www.sony.co.jp at least looks like japaneese to me in firefox 1.0.4. > > Well, it would -- it's a Flash site. > is HTML, and looks okay > to me. How does flash change the title bar of a web page? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 21:01:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:01:53 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <429F4CCC.6040602-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050602210153.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 02:15:40PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > That requires synchronous replication. Oracle RAC for example. Unless > you're willing to allow for committed transactions to be lost on > failover. To do RAC properly, you better forget running it on some pissy > little quad Xeon box. As far as I recall the database server that futurephoto moved to eventually (shortly after I left the company that build the site), was a pair of fridge size sun's. I think they might have been ultra450's or something like that. And yes they were running Oracle with synchornous replication. Porting our SQL was fairly trivial since we did all the logic at the application level and only used the database for storage and searching. Perfectly standard SQL. > And for those of you who think a quad xeon wasn't a pissy little box 3 > or 4 years ago, we're talking about database servers here. Anyone who'd > spec a quad xeon for database work is clearly incompetent. The Xeon's > FSB architecture (even for NUMA Xeon systems) has totally insufficient > IO capacity for serious database work. Certainly true. Even an opteron is probably not equiped with enough I/O bandwidth to compete with the big guys, although certainly better than the xeon. At least Intel appears to be finally getting ready to scrap the netburst design and go back to the P6 derived design of the Pentium-M. About time. The netburst design didn't impress me much when I first saw it, the way previous new intel chips had done, and new amd chips. It just seemed wrong or backwards somehow. The more I read about it, the less I liked it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 21:02:14 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <429F6EE7.6020207-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429F6EE7.6020207@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050602210214.98152.qmail@web60124.mail.yahoo.com> --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > F. Duran wrote: > > I have these two bookmarked: > > > > http://www.korax.net/services/colo/ > > http://mycybernet.net/business/co/index.htm > > > > I was also looking for a colocation site, let us > know > > how it goes. > > Thanks, Fernando. > > Very expensive. That is what I am already used to > say about Canadian > hosting. I am afraid I will go USA. See this: > http://www.netmar.com/ I hope you don't mind driving 10 hours to do a reboot ;-) > > zb. > > > Fernando > > > > > > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > > >>Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The > point > >>is, however, that I > >>need a company that would be willing to take my > own > >>computer and just > >>connect it to the net, with entire maintenance > done > >>by myself. > >> > >>zb. > >> > >>-- > >>Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source > Business > >>Solutions > >>Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice > Servers, > >>Networking > >>Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: > >>1-416-530-2780 > >>Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, > >>info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org > >>-- > >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > >>http://tlug.ss.org > >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > >>below 80 columns > >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > >>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > >> > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business > Solutions > Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, > Networking > Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: > 1-416-530-2780 > Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, > info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 21:23:07 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:23:07 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050602210153.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> <20050602210153.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <429F78BB.5030504@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 02:15:40PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>That requires synchronous replication. Oracle RAC for example. Unless >>you're willing to allow for committed transactions to be lost on >>failover. To do RAC properly, you better forget running it on some pissy >>little quad Xeon box. > > As far as I recall the database server that futurephoto moved to > eventually (shortly after I left the company that build the site), was a > pair of fridge size sun's. I think they might have been ultra450's or The 450's are about the size of a beer fridge on it's back. But they weigh more. 4500's were actually a little bit smaller boxes. Or at least the look smaller. I always thought that was kind of strange. > something like that. And yes they were running Oracle with synchornous > replication. Porting our SQL was fairly trivial since we did all the > logic at the application level and only used the database for storage and > searching. Perfectly standard SQL. This is the kind of crap design that comes from junior developers who actually believe that database independance is a good thing. It's as moronic as driving a car in only first gear all the time, so you can avoid the learning curve of a new clutch when you change cars. And then being proud of it while complaining that your car won't go fast enough and tends to burn out it's engine. >>And for those of you who think a quad xeon wasn't a pissy little box 3 >>or 4 years ago, we're talking about database servers here. Anyone who'd >>spec a quad xeon for database work is clearly incompetent. The Xeon's >>FSB architecture (even for NUMA Xeon systems) has totally insufficient >>IO capacity for serious database work. > > Certainly true. Even an opteron is probably not equiped with enough I/O > bandwidth to compete with the big guys, although certainly better than > the xeon. The Opteron's hypertransport architecture is actually better than some of the lower end pSeries and Sun boxes. It doesn't hold a candle to the massive IO capacity of the big ones though. PCI-e just can't compete with RioG. > At least Intel appears to be finally getting ready to scrap the netburst > design and go back to the P6 derived design of the Pentium-M. About > time. The netburst design didn't impress me much when I first saw it, > the way previous new intel chips had done, and new amd chips. It just > seemed wrong or backwards somehow. The more I read about it, the less I > liked it. Intel has nothing that can compete with AMD on multi-processor boxes. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCn3i6gfzn5SevSpoRAr18AKCuv56SYyEVu8d3r7LiKiBfd6A5aACeLnLV bmgY6aUWx9BtZpP/IvJNJ7w= =28Aw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 21:46:15 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:46:15 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602183636.GA2598@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050602214615.GA2969@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 10:15:34PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > >I have standard Slackware, which comes with only fonts from XFree86 or > >Xorg. It comes with Korean 16pt and 24pt fonts (*-daewoo-*). How come > >Netscape-7.1 picks it up, but not Firefox? > > I don't know. Did you try View->Character Encoding->Auto > Detect->Korean ? Of course. > > Also maybe there is an issue with your document. Try to visit some > Korean pages and see what happens. E.g. LG: http://www.lg.co.kr/korean/ > which renders fine here, Tools->Page Info says Encoding = EUC-KR. Keep > in mind that there are four different encodings for Korean. ff comes > with its own font packages afaik, but I do not remember to have > downloaded any extra fonts. And the daewoo fonts are not the ones used > by ff. When visiting http://www.lg.co.kr/, Konqueror works okey. Do you know how I can "register" fonts for Edit | Preferences | Fonts&Colors | Western | {serif | sans-serif | monospace} ? When I click 'Western', I'm given the same 15 options for 'serif', 'sans-serif', and 'monospace' fonts. If I wanted to use different fonts, how do I go about it? Perhaps, approaching from that direction may produce the desired result. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 2 22:38:03 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:38:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050602214615.GA2969-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602175631.GA2354@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602183636.GA2598@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050602214615.GA2969@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > Do you know how I can "register" fonts for > Edit | Preferences | Fonts&Colors | Western | > {serif | sans-serif | monospace} > ? > > When I click 'Western', I'm given the same 15 options for 'serif', > 'sans-serif', and 'monospace' fonts. If I wanted to use different > fonts, how do I go about it? Perhaps, approaching from that direction > may produce the desired result. The ff way of doing fonts is not so obvious. Afair you need to close the browser and go into ~/.mozilla/firefox/{something}/ and edit Javascript files by hand. I may be wrong however. Keep a backup or you'll have to reinstall. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 01:15:32 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:15:32 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <429F4CCC.6040602-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <429FAF34.30009@quadratic.net> I try to stick with silly database work instead of serious database work.. works for me everytime david Andrew Hammond wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >>On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:18:24PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> >> >>>PostgreSQL doesn't yet have anything meaningful in terms of answers >>>for multimaster replication, but that represents a tough problem. >>>(Albeit one where efforts are under way. >>>) >>> >>>There have historically been several ways of doing single-master >>>replication, notably including: >>>- eRServer >>>- Mammoth Replicator >>> >>>- Slony-I >>> >>> >>Certainly 3 or 4 years ago none of them were capable enough to really be >>called live replication. Some even required adding all sorts of >>triggers and mess to yoru database whenever you created new tables, >>which was asking way too much when you were trying to keep things >>portable to another database if necesary. >> >> > >Mammoth Replicator has always been transparent (or nearly so) IIRC. >Beyond the most trivial applications, inter-database portability does >not exist. > >http://www.powerpostgresql.com/Downloads/database_depends_public.swf > >And that's the PHB friendly version. > > > >>If a database goes down, the applications (clients) should be using the >>other one without really noticing anything had happened. When I looked >>at the solutions in opensource 3-4 years ago, nothing existed so we did >>the best we could with only one live database. >> >> > >That requires synchronous replication. Oracle RAC for example. Unless >you're willing to allow for committed transactions to be lost on >failover. To do RAC properly, you better forget running it on some pissy >little quad Xeon box. > >And for those of you who think a quad xeon wasn't a pissy little box 3 >or 4 years ago, we're talking about database servers here. Anyone who'd >spec a quad xeon for database work is clearly incompetent. The Xeon's >FSB architecture (even for NUMA Xeon systems) has totally insufficient >IO capacity for serious database work. > >- -- >Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org >Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. >CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) > >iD8DBQFCn0zMgfzn5SevSpoRAr4NAKDAX3mpXnijdSlc7Bg/yFbPGlNIZACgv7tO >my30r+lR6cPkTM9zZa7TpKM= >=46Bj >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 02:07:13 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:07:13 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20050602210214.98152.qmail-CwXLJ1sQc4KA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602210214.98152.qmail@web60124.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429FBB51.2030108@quadratic.net> anyone up for splitting a cabinet? david F. Duran wrote: >--- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > >>F. Duran wrote: >> >> >>>I have these two bookmarked: >>> >>>http://www.korax.net/services/colo/ >>>http://mycybernet.net/business/co/index.htm >>> >>>I was also looking for a colocation site, let us >>> >>> >>know >> >> >>>how it goes. >>> >>> >>Thanks, Fernando. >> >>Very expensive. That is what I am already used to >>say about Canadian >>hosting. I am afraid I will go USA. See this: >>http://www.netmar.com/ >> >> > >I hope you don't mind driving 10 hours to do a reboot >;-) > > > >>zb. >> >> >> >>>Fernando >>> >>> >>>--- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The >>>> >>>> >>point >> >> >>>>is, however, that I >>>>need a company that would be willing to take my >>>> >>>> >>own >> >> >>>>computer and just >>>>connect it to the net, with entire maintenance >>>> >>>> >>done >> >> >>>>by myself. >>>> >>>>zb. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source >>>> >>>> >>Business >> >> >>>>Solutions >>>>Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice >>>> >>>> >>Servers, >> >> >>>>Networking >>>>Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: >>>>1-416-530-2780 >>>>Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, >>>>info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org >>>>-- >>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>>>http://tlug.ss.org >>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>>>below 80 columns >>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>>>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >>> >>> >>protection around >> >> >>>http://mail.yahoo.com >>>-- >>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>> >>> >>http://tlug.ss.org >> >> >>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>> >>> >>below 80 columns >> >> >>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>> >>> >>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >>-- >>Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business >>Solutions >>Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, >>Networking >>Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: >>1-416-530-2780 >>Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, >>info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 04:38:35 2005 From: jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org (Jim Van Meggelen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:38:35 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050601203741.GF23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050601203741.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <003301c567f6$1a67e780$6e01a8c0@xp2400> owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 02:24:43PM -0400, Leigh Honeywell wrote: >> Nortel's BCM50 small office telephony server is quite "loud and >> proud" about running Linux. Have a look: >> >> > http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/events/2005a/ca> > la_eseminars/ap >> r29pt/collateral/bcm50_eseminar_brazil_pt2.pdf > > That is rather different than the BCM3000 (hardware might have been > BCM200) which ran Win NT 4 with a dreadful java interface. > It does look like the dreadful java interface survived the > transition unfortunately. And, the old WinNT-based BCM *also* was full of open-source software. The web interface was Apache, and there was a VNC server running in there as well. (oh yeah, and many of the critical system scripts were DOS batch files, but that's another story). -- Jim Van Meggelen jim-3N9/NUsc0oNv0lssq1+4Ag at public.gmane.org -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 02/06/2005 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 05:50:40 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:50:40 +0800 Subject: ntp inquiry Message-ID: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi all, i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and in the philippines.. just recently i have a cron job the that executes twice... im wondering if syncing on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp poll for time? tia, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 06:02:02 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:02:02 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <200506031350.40231.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050603060202.GA3890@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:50:40PM +0800, JM wrote: > hi all, > > i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and in the philippines.. just > recently i have a cron job the that executes twice... im wondering if syncing > on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp poll for time? Twice? Normally in this case, you would sync with 2 servers once, rather than syncing one server at a time. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 12:13:55 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:13:55 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <200506031350.40231.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: On 6/3/05, JM wrote: > hi all, > > i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and in the philippines.. just > > recently i have a cron job the that executes twice... im wondering if > syncing > on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp poll for time? If you are doing this via a cron job, then I presume that what you have is thus (or otherwise equivalent): for server in something.sg something.ph; do ntpdate $server done If you do something like that, with 2 runs of ntpdate, then YOU are the one polling, and you are doing so twice. You adjust the time first to the "Singapore" time, then to the "Filipino" time. The sync against Singapore is actually irrelevant because it is immediately overridden by the second time sync. You would get better results with your polling if you instead did... # Build up list of servers in $SVLIST SVLIST="" for server in something.sg something.ph; do SVLIST="$SVLIST $server" done ntpdate $SVLIST That would cause the ntpdate program to consider both NTP servers at once; it would attempt to take the best time sync based on evaluating them all. In all the above cases, it is YOU that do all the polling. ntpdate doesn't poll; it just requests time information once. Far and away better is to put the two servers into /etc/ntp.conf... server something.sg server something.ph And start up ntpd, which will NOT run as a cron job, but which will rather stay running all the time. That would periodically (once time seems stable, probably every five minutes or so) poll each of the servers. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 12:32:22 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:32:22 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20050602210214.98152.qmail-CwXLJ1sQc4KA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602210214.98152.qmail@web60124.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42A04DD6.4030005@istop.com> F. Duran wrote: > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >>F. Duran wrote: >> >>>I have these two bookmarked: >>> >>>http://www.korax.net/services/colo/ >>>http://mycybernet.net/business/co/index.htm >>> >>>I was also looking for a colocation site, let us >> >>know >> >>>how it goes. >> >>Thanks, Fernando. >> >>Very expensive. That is what I am already used to >>say about Canadian >>hosting. I am afraid I will go USA. See this: >>http://www.netmar.com/ > > > I hope you don't mind driving 10 hours to do a reboot > ;-) > Fernando, are you a Windows user? There is no reboot button on Linux machines. And I can tell you, as a sort of Linux sysadmin, that it happened once in my life only that I had to turn off the power from a Linux server. Hence, yes, I am willing to drive 10 hours. The costs in Canada for colocation are from the planet Moon. Why? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 12:54:50 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:54:50 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <429F78BB.5030504-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> <20050602210153.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F78BB.5030504@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050603125449.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 05:23:07PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 02:15:40PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > > >>That requires synchronous replication. Oracle RAC for example. Unless > >>you're willing to allow for committed transactions to be lost on > >>failover. To do RAC properly, you better forget running it on some pissy > >>little quad Xeon box. > > > > As far as I recall the database server that futurephoto moved to > > eventually (shortly after I left the company that build the site), was a > > pair of fridge size sun's. I think they might have been ultra450's or > > The 450's are about the size of a beer fridge on it's back. But they > weigh more. 4500's were actually a little bit smaller boxes. Or at least > the look smaller. I always thought that was kind of strange. > > > something like that. And yes they were running Oracle with synchornous > > replication. Porting our SQL was fairly trivial since we did all the > > logic at the application level and only used the database for storage and > > searching. Perfectly standard SQL. > > This is the kind of crap design that comes from junior developers who > actually believe that database independance is a good thing. It's as > moronic as driving a car in only first gear all the time, so you can > avoid the learning curve of a new clutch when you change cars. And then > being proud of it while complaining that your car won't go fast enough > and tends to burn out it's engine. In many cases all you need a database to do is store data in a way that makes it fast to find again when you need it. Automatic triggers and functions and data manipulation are not always required. Setting up the right indexes and trying to create your queries in the right order for your database to make things go fast does help a lot too. I am sure the stuff we did would not have run on MySQL at the time since we were using a lot of the more advanced SQL queries that it didn't support (at least at the time). Some of them were even fairly new in postgres. Sometimes treating a database as a very clever filesystem and nothing more is a good idea. Sometimes you do something more advanced where you want to enforce table relations and data integrity, in which case you have to start using more features, and portability takes a hit. We wanted to be portable to another database at the time, and had no real need to put the logic in the database so we avoided it. I do know futureshop's prior provider of photo storage died because they couldn't scale past a few thousand users, and they had put all the logic into a MS SQL server. They were running on an 8 cpu intel server before they finally died out just trying to get the database to handle the requests fast enough. It is much easier to put the logic into the scripts of the web server and let the database just handle queries if you want to be able to scale to a lot of users without using a database that can in fact run multiple servers at a time sharing the load. If postgres could have done that at the time, we would probably have used it that way for some things. As for the junior developer thing, well I think you are wrong. I think designing things for one database when you don't have to is like making tires that only work on one brand of car. Might save you a little time in some cases and work slightly better, but you sure limit your potential users in many cases. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 12:52:49 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:52:49 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <42A04DD6.4030005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050602210214.98152.qmail@web60124.mail.yahoo.com> <42A04DD6.4030005@istop.com> Message-ID: On 6/3/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Fernando, are you a Windows user? There is no reboot button on Linux > machines. And I can tell you, as a sort of Linux sysadmin, that it > happened once in my life only that I had to turn off the power from a > Linux server. > > Hence, yes, I am willing to drive 10 hours. The costs in Canada for > colocation are from the planet Moon. Why? Come on, now. We have systems in India, and have found it invaluable that the HP hardware supports a method for allowing us to see the "boot console" all the way from North America. The machines don't get rebooted all that often, but if there's a disk failure, there's a need for that sort of thing. I'm certainly not getting on a plane to India if a machine needs rebooting!!! It may be that particularly simple Linux configurations do not need rebooting; as you get into complex stuff like md, or disk array "multipath," it turns out to be somewhat more needful :-(. Furthermore, there's something about Murphy's Law... If you have the capability to power cycle machines remotely, you'll almost never need to. If you don't, you'll find you need it :-(. In colo situations, it is extremely convenient to have remotely-accessible power switches and consoles. It'll be particularly valuable if you have to stick the hardware in another country because it's cheaper there... I'm a bit surprised that there aren't some cheap options out in Mississauga. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agamemnon67-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 10:55:35 2005 From: agamemnon67-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Anthony) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <200506031350.40231.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050603105535.30810.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date runs on port 13. You can write a script that can ntp anywhere safely, even using telnet to pickup the time: telnet server.wherever:13>dumpfile or tee exit --- JM wrote: > hi all, > > i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and > in the philippines.. just > recently i have a cron job the that executes > twice... im wondering if syncing > on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp > poll for time? > > tia, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 09:41:27 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:41:27 +0800 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <20050603060202.GA3890-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050603060202.GA3890@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506031741.27312.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Friday 03 June 2005 14:02, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:50:40PM +0800, JM wrote: > > hi all, > > > > i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and in the philippines.. > > just recently i have a cron job the that executes twice... im wondering > > if syncing on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp poll for > > time? > > Twice? Normally in this case, you would sync with 2 servers once, > rather than syncing one server at a time. yup twice... based on crond logs.. the script was executed twice.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 13:13:12 2005 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:13:12 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <429F5596.4050106-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F5596.4050106@istop.com> Message-ID: <42A05768.5080000@mineallmeyn.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Could somebody recommend, please, a place? The point is, however, that I > need a company that would be willing to take my own computer and just > connect it to the net, with entire maintenance done by myself. I use Peer1 (peer1.net) - the attraction there was both easy accessibility (1 yonge st.) and fractions of cabinet (I only need 4u). Cost was reasonable when I was comparing to other similar offerings. Cheers, Oliver ps their big claim to fame is staying up through the blackout in 2003 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 13:43:49 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 9:43:49 -0400 Subject: non-English fonts in Firefox Message-ID: <20050603134349.ETRY1659.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > How does flash change the title bar of a web page? True enough, but they looked like kana (phonetic characters, which more fonts support, since there are fewer characters) than kanji. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 16:23:21 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:23:21 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <20050603125449.GM23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> <20050602210153.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F78BB.5030504@ca.afilias.info> <20050603125449.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42A083F9.5040404@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Sometimes treating a database as a very clever filesystem and > nothing more is a good idea. If you have a trivial problem, then I expect that a trivial solution is in order. > Sometimes you do something more advanced where you want to > enforce table relations and data integrity, in which case you have to > start using more features, and portability takes a hit. We wanted to be > portable to another database at the time, and had no real need to put > the logic in the database so we avoided it. And ran into performance problems. What a suprise. > I do know futureshop's prior provider of photo storage died because they > couldn't scale past a few thousand users, and they had put all the logic > into a MS SQL server. They were running on an 8 cpu intel server before > they finally died out just trying to get the database to handle the > requests fast enough. It is much easier to put the logic into the > scripts of the web server and let the database just handle queries It's certainly easier to develop. > if > you want to be able to scale to a lot of users without using a database > that can in fact run multiple servers at a time sharing the load. This is exactly the kind of incorrect assumption that junior developers make. Stored procedures are an enormous win when you're trying to solve performance problems. This has been demonstrated so often it's not even seriously debated anymore. Obviously I'm talking about business logic here, not presentation logic or raw processing. > If postgres could have done that at the time, we would probably have used > it that way for some things. > > As for the junior developer thing, well I think you are wrong. I think > designing things for one database when you don't have to is like making > tires that only work on one brand of car. Might save you a little time > in some cases and work slightly better, but you sure limit your > potential users in many cases. Designing for database independance by definition means accepting the subset of the intersection of functionality across all databases you intend to support as well as the set of the union of all limitiations and bugs across all databases you intend to support. If you're willing to accept a database as useless as that, then your application would probably be better served by not using a database at all. Furthermore, no one person has sufficient expertise in more than perhaps 2 databases to know what the limitations and bugs really are. In the case of your tires analogy, I expect that you'd spend a hell of a lot more time desiging the rest of the car. I also expect that cars are typically designed with only one engine in mind. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCoIP4gfzn5SevSpoRAsD1AJoDzSNR3yvsO9rhzitZHs5CoOVsfACgjMjg gtLU6V1w2XabcxopCPGKilA= =9JUF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 16:37:01 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:37:01 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried the D-Link DWL-922C package with Linux? Message-ID: <42A0872D.5030100@interlog.com> Greetings, all. The latest Best Buy flyer has a D-Link DWL-922C package on sale this week at a nice price. The package includes a DI-524 router and DWL-G122 USB key device. Has any one tried this package or these devices in Linux? Preliminary search of the net indicates it may work but I would like to hear from anyone on this list who may have direct experience with these devices. I am not planning on using them as part of a permanent home wireless network connection. At least, not at the moment. My purpose is to do some initial development and proof-of-concept testing of the use of WiFi for a project I'm working on with a client. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 17:27:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:27:48 -0400 Subject: Open Source for mission-critical systems (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <42A083F9.5040404-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F4CCC.6040602@ca.afilias.info> <20050602210153.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F78BB.5030504@ca.afilias.info> <20050603125449.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42A083F9.5040404@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050603172747.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 12:23:21PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > If you have a trivial problem, then I expect that a trivial solution is > in order. Most web sites are rather trivial when you get down to it. > And ran into performance problems. What a suprise. The only performance problems was when too much was asked of the database server. The less we relied on it to do, the better the performance of the whole system became. One perforamnce problem initially was postgres's terrible handling of subselects (and initially the lack of support for them). That improved with new versions of postgres which sped up queries a lot. > This is exactly the kind of incorrect assumption that junior developers > make. Stored procedures are an enormous win when you're trying to solve > performance problems. This has been demonstrated so often it's not even > seriously debated anymore. Obviously I'm talking about business logic > here, not presentation logic or raw processing. I have used postgres procedures to convert data, since nothing external could possibly compete with it in performance. > Designing for database independance by definition means accepting the > subset of the intersection of functionality across all databases you > intend to support as well as the set of the union of all limitiations > and bugs across all databases you intend to support. If you're willing > to accept a database as useless as that, then your application would > probably be better served by not using a database at all. Furthermore, > no one person has sufficient expertise in more than perhaps 2 databases > to know what the limitations and bugs really are. Well we found the SQL features in postgres rather useful, and had no intension of supporting mysql at the time (it lacked too many useful standard features of SQL) or any of the other limited SQL support databases. Moving up to a commercial database with a full SQL implementation would not really be a problem of course. > In the case of your tires analogy, I expect that you'd spend a hell of a > lot more time desiging the rest of the car. I also expect that cars are > typically designed with only one engine in mind. Most cars are designed with multiple engines in mind. Those engines are also often designed to be used in multiple cars. Doing anything less would not be cost effective. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 18:36:32 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars Message-ID: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Is there anyone here who is - running Linux, Firefox, and - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 17:42:51 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:42:51 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603183632.GA3278-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > Is there anyone here who is > - running Linux, Firefox, and > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? Works fine here, with Gentoo tested with this page http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp and many others -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 18:47:05 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:47:05 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603183632.GA3278-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > Is there anyone here who is > - running Linux, Firefox, and > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? I already said I do, no ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 18:46:29 2005 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:46:29 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603183632.GA3278-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506031446.29554.glayng@sympatico.ca> Yes, I'm not having a problem. On June 3, 2005 14:36, William Park wrote: > Is there anyone here who is > - running Linux, Firefox, and > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 18:49:23 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:49:23 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <200506031342.52094.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jason Shein wrote: > On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > >>Is there anyone here who is >> - running Linux, Firefox, and >> - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > tested with this page > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > and many others I often read Japanese stuff on my debian box. I don't even remember installing the support for it, so it must have been pretty easy. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCoKYzgfzn5SevSpoRAlFFAJ0aYFuRePouKBNQFksZJWMiKuijzQCgs6yR nlJ560QLcPvfYj1Q7EJ4JSA= =x9KR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 17:56:37 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:56:37 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <42A0A633.8030703-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <200506031356.37713.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On June 3, 2005 02:49 pm, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Jason Shein wrote: > > On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > >>Is there anyone here who is > >> - running Linux, Firefox, and > >> - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > > > tested with this page > > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > > and many others > > I often read Japanese stuff on my debian box. I don't even remember > installing the support for it, so it must have been pretty easy. > I think in most modern distributions this is pretty much the standard. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 18:56:58 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:56:58 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <200506031342.52094.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050603185658.GA3663@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:42:51PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote: > On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > > Is there anyone here who is > > - running Linux, Firefox, and > > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > tested with this page > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > and many others Thanks Jason, (and George, Gary, etc...). I assume you downloaded standard English version of Firefox. Other than this, did you download anything else from Mozilla site? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:00:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:00:40 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603183632.GA3278-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:36:32PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Is there anyone here who is > - running Linux, Firefox, and > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? www.google.co.jp www.google.co.kr www.google.cn All work as they should for me. Firefox 1.0.4 on Debian 3.1 (Sarge) Would you like screen shots? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:01:39 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:01:39 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603185658.GA3663-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050603185658.GA3663@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050603190139.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:56:58PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Thanks Jason, (and George, Gary, etc...). I assume you downloaded > standard English version of Firefox. Other than this, did you download > anything else from Mozilla site? I use the firefox that comes with my distribution and ties in with everything automatically. I don't believe in 3rd party installers. That's something I don't miss from the windows world. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:01:33 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:01:33 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <42A0A633.8030703-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On 6/3/05, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Jason Shein wrote: > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > > > tested with this page > > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > > and many others > > I often read Japanese stuff on my debian box. I don't even remember > installing the support for it, so it must have been pretty easy. I get the boxes with hex numbers in them on my debian (sarge) box. I don't remember installing support for it, and have no idea if it's easy or not. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:03:03 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:03:03 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > I get the boxes with hex numbers in them on my debian (sarge) box. I > don't remember installing support for it, and have no idea if it's > easy or not. :) I think installing the microsoft font package or perhaps unifont should take care of it. As long as you have some font that supports the encoding it seems to work. Openoffice also looks much better with msttcorefonts installed if you try and view MS office documents. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:03:41 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:03:41 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603190040.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/3/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:36:32PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > Is there anyone here who is > > - running Linux, Firefox, and > > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > www.google.co.jp I get about 60% of the characters > www.google.co.kr All hexy. > www.google.cn All hexy. I probably don't have the relevant fonts installed. (I don't actually care all that much as I can't read those languages anyway; just adding datapoints to the discussion from the side of "I also don't have something happening") -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:04:33 2005 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:04:33 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603185658.GA3663-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050603185658.GA3663@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506031504.33389.glayng@sympatico.ca> That I recall, I just downloaded the standard version, then in Preferences added Japanese to the languages it would display. That should do the trick. On June 3, 2005 14:56, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:42:51PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote: > > On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > > > Is there anyone here who is > > > - running Linux, Firefox, and > > > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > > > tested with this page > > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > > and many others > > Thanks Jason, (and George, Gary, etc...). I assume you downloaded > standard English version of Firefox. Other than this, did you download > anything else from Mozilla site? -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:34:44 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:34:44 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050603193444.GA4034@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/3/05, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > Jason Shein wrote: > > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > > > > > tested with this page > > > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > > > and many others > > > > I often read Japanese stuff on my debian box. I don't even remember > > installing the support for it, so it must have been pretty easy. > > I get the boxes with hex numbers in them on my debian (sarge) box. I > don't remember installing support for it, and have no idea if it's > easy or not. :) That's what I see, also. I run full install Slackware-9.1, and I presume the same will be true for Slackware-10.1 (latest) because the fonts are the same fonts from XFree86 or Xorg. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:37:55 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:37:55 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603190040.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:00:40PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > www.google.co.jp > www.google.co.kr > www.google.cn > > All work as they should for me. > > Firefox 1.0.4 on Debian 3.1 (Sarge) > > Would you like screen shots? No need. :-) I'm trying to dig out how Slackware is different from all the rest. It's not looking good. :-( -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 20:01:17 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:01:17 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603193755.GB4034-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050603200117.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:37:55PM -0400, William Park wrote: > No need. :-) I'm trying to dig out how Slackware is different from all > the rest. It's not looking good. :-( The slackware developer is a slacker and expects you to do the hard work yourself? :) Isn't that why it's called slackware? Slackware does at least seem to be a DIY distribution where you don't expect everything to just work out of the "box". Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 19:05:16 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:05:16 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603185658.GA3663-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050603185658.GA3663@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506031505.16546.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On June 3, 2005 02:56 pm, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:42:51PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote: > > On June 3, 2005 02:36 pm, William Park wrote: > > > Is there anyone here who is > > > - running Linux, Firefox, and > > > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > > > Works fine here, with Gentoo > > > > tested with this page > > http://www.kois.go.kr/about/kor_60.asp > > and many others > > Thanks Jason, (and George, Gary, etc...). I assume you downloaded > standard English version of Firefox. Other than this, did you download > anything else from Mozilla site? on gentoo it is a simple matter of emerge firefox-bin -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 20:30:22 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 03 Jun 2005 16:30:22 -0400 Subject: [NTL] Next LPI Session In-Reply-To: <429FDE69.5000406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <429FDE69.5000406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Transoaxania writes: > When is the next LPI testing session going to be held by the lug? I am a proctor for the exams. I can host a session whenever there is enough interest. Say 5 guys? Transoaxania, would you like to be the contact for organizing a lab? I don't see a problem with making any of the NewTLUG meetings this summer (can't do September, though). I'm CC'ing TLUG, too. The same offer applies or I could do an exam lab just for TLUG. BTW, the exams are only $50 CAD with this method. It is usually $100 USD +GST at the Vue and Prometric testing centres. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 20:49:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:49:06 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603200117.GR23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603200117.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050603204906.GA4348@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 04:01:17PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:37:55PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > No need. :-) I'm trying to dig out how Slackware is different from all > > the rest. It's not looking good. :-( > > The slackware developer is a slacker and expects you to do the hard work > yourself? :) > > Isn't that why it's called slackware? > > Slackware does at least seem to be a DIY distribution where you don't > expect everything to just work out of the "box". Thing is, Slackware comes with Netscape-7.1. And, (you guessed it), it works. It picks up 3 Korean fonts (-daewoo-*) which are included in official XFree86 or Xorg release. But, not Firefox that I download. My guess is that if I compile Firefox from source, it would work. :-) Damn it... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 3 22:32:47 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:32:47 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <42A05768.5080000-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c566f1$41ec3dc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050601215406.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050602164706.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <429F5596.4050106@istop.com> <42A05768.5080000@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: On 6/3/05, Oliver Meyn wrote: > I use Peer1 (peer1.net) - the attraction there was both easy > accessibility (1 yonge st.) and fractions of cabinet (I only need 4u). > Cost was reasonable when I was comparing to other similar offerings. Netcraft just published a report for May/2005 on the top 50 hosting services ( worldwide I believe ). Its available here: http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/reports/Hosters -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 04:56:07 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:56:07 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> Christopher Browne wrote: >On 6/3/05, JM wrote: > > >>hi all, >> >> i have a ntp server that syncs with singapore and in the philippines.. just >> >>recently i have a cron job the that executes twice... im wondering if >>syncing >>on 2 diff countries is a bad idea.. how does ntp poll for time? >> >> > >If you are doing this via a cron job, then I presume that what you >have is thus (or otherwise equivalent): > >for server in something.sg something.ph; do > ntpdate $server >done > >If you do something like that, with 2 runs of ntpdate, then YOU are >the one polling, and you are doing so twice. You adjust the time >first to the "Singapore" time, then to the "Filipino" time. The sync >against Singapore is actually irrelevant because it is immediately >overridden by the second time sync. > >You would get better results with your polling if you instead did... > ># Build up list of servers in $SVLIST >SVLIST="" >for server in something.sg something.ph; do > SVLIST="$SVLIST $server" >done >ntpdate $SVLIST > >That would cause the ntpdate program to consider both NTP servers at >once; it would attempt to take the best time sync based on evaluating >them all. > >In all the above cases, it is YOU that do all the polling. ntpdate >doesn't poll; it just requests time information once. > >Far and away better is to put the two servers into /etc/ntp.conf... > > server something.sg > server something.ph > >And start up ntpd, which will NOT run as a cron job, but which will >rather stay running all the time. That would periodically (once time >seems stable, probably every five minutes or so) poll each of the >servers. > > I have to agree 100% with the idea of running ntpd all the time. Then ntpd can get a feel for your network latency and the clock jitters otherwise. When I say get a feel.. what I mean is : it uses high math to account for tcp/ip over many hops. I.e. the lack of reliability. Then later (after a couple of hours) you can use "ntpq -c pe" and "ntpq -c as" to get a feel for the quality of each ntp server ( and your own local clock) At allstream we use it in our golden master and it's great.. I never have to worry about time .. well nearly never. I use my local caching name servers as ntp servers (stratum 3) and point all my client's servers at the caching name servers for ntp. david -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 05:52:30 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:52:30 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603183632.GA3278-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:36:32PM -0400, William Park wrote > Is there anyone here who is > - running Linux, Firefox, and > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? Me. My /usr/share/fonts/100dpi dir has almost 1900 files. How is yours? Googling on the search term... +"korean font" +noarch ...gives me "about 930 English pages". I don't know what distro you're using, but you should find something there that you can install. If all else fails, I can make a tgz of my /usr/share/fonts directory and email it to you. Isn't it nice to use an OS where that's legal? -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 06:02:54 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:02:54 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603190303.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050604060254.GA10220@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:03:03PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > I get the boxes with hex numbers in them on my debian (sarge) box. I > > don't remember installing support for it, and have no idea if it's > > easy or not. :) > > I think installing the microsoft font package or perhaps unifont should > take care of it. As long as you have some font that supports the > encoding it seems to work. > > Openoffice also looks much better with msttcorefonts installed if you > try and view MS office documents. In newsgroup, I was pointed to something called Cyberbit TTF font. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/communicator/extras/fonts/windows/Cyberbit.ZIP So, I installed it under /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, and it works! Full instruction has been posted to the newsgroup, since this seems to be Slackware issue. Message-ID: <5670c$42a0ae13$d8fea76e$2045-2qnE/mlX47i3NexWsGEg3A at public.gmane.org> Subject: Slackware Linux + Firefox + CJK fonts To those of you whose Firefox works out of box, can you check your /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, and see if it contains anything other than 'Vera*' and 'luxi*'? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 06:13:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:13:06 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050604055230.GA19913-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 01:52:30AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 02:36:32PM -0400, William Park wrote > > Is there anyone here who is > > - running Linux, Firefox, and > > - can see Chinese/Japanese/Korean chars on webpages? > > Me. My /usr/share/fonts/100dpi dir has almost 1900 files. How is > yours? Googling on the search term... We are on the right track. Can you post just ls /usr/share/fonts ? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 12:46:08 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:46:08 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <42A13467.7020201-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> David Thornton wrote: > > At allstream we use it in our golden master and it's great.. I never > have to worry about time .. well nearly never. That's good to know -- but how accurate is it? A government agency I know of doesn't use NTP but some proprietary solution, as they don't think NTP is accurate enough. I dunno if that's bias, or fact, or issues with Windows's implementation of NTP. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 12:59:08 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:59:08 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050604060254.GA10220-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050604060254.GA10220@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A1A59C.8090302@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: > > In newsgroup, I was pointed to something called > Cyberbit TTF font. I'd be a bit careful with Cyberbit. I know machines are a lot beefier than they used to be, but having a single TTF of 23MB in memory isn't going to do anyting for your font rendering speed. Proofing a page in Cyberbit once locked up my Sun Ultra 10 for five minutes. > To those of you whose Firefox works out of box, can you check your > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, and see if it contains anything other > than 'Vera*' and 'luxi*'? The output from 'xset q' might be more useful, as would looking through /etc/fonts/local.conf. /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/ looks the same to me, too, but I also have /usr/share/fonts/corefonts (MS Core Fonts; which don't have CJKV, being WGL4) and /usr/share/fonts/ttf-gentium (SIL Gentium, an attempt to do a true and complete Unicode font for free). cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 14:00:37 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:00:37 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603193755.GB4034-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > No need. :-) I'm trying to dig out how Slackware is different from all > the rest. It's not looking good. :-( It's looking great. Start ff, open a .kr page and run lsof on the ff tasks (all of them), then locate any font files they use. This should work [tm]. Command to run: lsof -p `pidof firefox-bin|tr ' ' ','`|cut -c62-|grep fonts|sort|uniq\ >fonts.used Output from my firefox, when viewing url: http://www.samsung.co.kr/ is: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/18x18ko.pcf.gz /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera/Vera.ttf /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera/VeraSe.ttf /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019043l.pfb /usr/share/fonts/windows/arial.ttf /usr/share/fonts/windows/verdana.ttf I guess you are missing the 18x18ko font . Locate the package that contains this font and install it. I don't know about /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019043l.pfb . hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 14:01:18 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:01:18 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050603200117.GR23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603200117.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The slackware developer is a slacker and expects you to do the hard work > yourself? :) What 'hard work' ? ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 15:00:59 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:00:59 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A1C22B.6090501@sympatico.ca> Peter wrote: > > lsof -p `pidof firefox-bin|tr ' ' ','`|cut -c62-|grep fonts|sort|uniq\ > >fonts.used teh nifty! > I guess you are missing the 18x18ko font . Locate the package that > contains this font and install it. I don't know about > /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019043l.pfb . It's NimbusSanL-ReguCond, URW's Helvetica Narrow workalike given away with Ghostscript. It's likely that most users have it, but it has no CJKV glyphs. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 15:42:48 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:42:48 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line Message-ID: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> Hello I have noticed over the past 10 years a "feature" about BASH (or probably xterm) that has me mildly annoyed. It is only now that I wish to discuss it since no one I know of has complained about it. I like coloured command prompts. My current one is: PS1='\e[1;31m\h\e[m::\e[1;33m\w\e[m \e[1;32m>\e[m' Now if I type in a command, say of more than 20 characters, the display goes nuts. That is, the cursor jumps to the previous line on some nonrandom column and continues for another 5 or 6 characters, then jumps to the previous line to that. This could be a problem with xterm, although trying it now on a console, there is an earliy linebreak to the line below, so the program running the command line just deals with the bug differently. Now, if I type a line, I would like it to be *me* that inserts the carriage returns; not the program. Is there a way to do this? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 16:02:32 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:02:32 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <42A1C22B.6090501-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A1C22B.6090501@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Peter wrote: >> >> lsof -p `pidof firefox-bin|tr ' ' ','`|cut -c62-|grep fonts|sort|uniq\ >> >fonts.used > > teh nifty! What's 'teh' ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 16:27:14 2005 From: andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:27:14 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> Message-ID: <20050604162711.GA10052@seahorse.localdomain> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:42:48AM -0400, pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I like coloured command prompts. My current one is: > PS1='\e[1;31m\h\e[m::\e[1;33m\w\e[m \e[1;32m>\e[m' > Now if I type in a command, say of more than 20 characters, the > display goes nuts. That is, the cursor jumps to the previous line on > some nonrandom column and continues for another 5 or 6 characters, > then jumps to the previous line to that. You probably need to turn off bash counting the number of characters in the prompt around the escape codes for colors, and then turn it on again after, with \[ and \] respectively (see man bash). Give this a shot: PS1='\[\e[1;31m\]\h\[\e[m\]::\[\e[1;33m\]\w\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;32m\]>\[\e[m\]' hth, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 16:27:56 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:27:56 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> Message-ID: <20050604162756.GA2621@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:42:48AM -0400, pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello > > I have noticed over the past 10 years a "feature" about BASH (or > probably xterm) that has me mildly annoyed. It is only now that I > wish to discuss it since no one I know of has complained about it. > > I like coloured command prompts. My current one is: > PS1='\e[1;31m\h\e[m::\e[1;33m\w\e[m \e[1;32m>\e[m' > Now if I type in a command, say of more than 20 characters, the > display goes nuts. That is, the cursor jumps to the previous line on > some nonrandom column and continues for another 5 or 6 characters, > then jumps to the previous line to that. > > This could be a problem with xterm, although trying it now on a > console, there is an earliy linebreak to the line below, so the > program running the command line just deals with the bug differently. > > Now, if I type a line, I would like it to be *me* that inserts the > carriage returns; not the program. Is there a way to do this? Try using 'setterm' instead of hardcoded stuffs. I had bunch of PS1 samples in my .profile, but I removed them years ago due to lack of use. Best I can recollect is something like PS1="\[`setterm -bold on`\]....\[`setterm -default`\]..." -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 16:44:36 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:44:36 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <42A1A59C.8090302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050604060254.GA10220@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A1A59C.8090302@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050604164436.GB2621@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 08:59:08AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > William Park wrote: > > > > In newsgroup, I was pointed to something called > > Cyberbit TTF font. > > I'd be a bit careful with Cyberbit. I know machines are a lot beefier > than they used to be, but having a single TTF of 23MB in memory isn't > going to do anyting for your font rendering speed. Proofing a page in > Cyberbit once locked up my Sun Ultra 10 for five minutes. Hmmm, this may explain why my mouse seems to hang intermittently. > > > To those of you whose Firefox works out of box, can you check your > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, and see if it contains anything other > > than 'Vera*' and 'luxi*'? > > The output from 'xset q' might be more useful, as would looking through > /etc/fonts/local.conf. /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/ looks the same to > me, too, but I also have /usr/share/fonts/corefonts (MS Core Fonts; > which don't have CJKV, being WGL4) and /usr/share/fonts/ttf-gentium (SIL > Gentium, an attempt to do a true and complete Unicode font for free). 'xset q' will list FontPath from your /etc/X11/XF86Config (or xorg.conf). I'm more interested in stuffs in there, particularly stuffs that I don't have. :-) Font is one area that Slackware is lagging behind other distros. Up until now, this has been irrelevant, because anything Korean would be email. And, I usually do email using Mutt, Vim, Hanterm (Korean Xterm), and maybe Lynx. They are all 8-bit clean, so they can handle Korean email. But, I have this particular need of Firefox + Korean chars. My procrastination has come back to bite me. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 16:56:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:56:11 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050604165611.GC2621@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 05:00:37PM +0300, Peter wrote: > lsof -p `pidof firefox-bin|tr ' ' ','`|cut -c62-|grep fonts|sort|uniq\ > >fonts.used What's the reason for 'tr' there? > > Output from my firefox, when viewing url: > > http://www.samsung.co.kr/ > > is: > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/18x18ko.pcf.gz > /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera/Vera.ttf > /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera/VeraSe.ttf > /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019043l.pfb > /usr/share/fonts/windows/arial.ttf > /usr/share/fonts/windows/verdana.ttf > > I guess you are missing the 18x18ko font . Locate the package that > contains this font and install it. I don't know about > /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019043l.pfb . I have '18x18ko'. If it's from XFree86 or Xorg, then I have it. So, I don't Korean chars are coming from that. My 'lsof' shows /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/l048013t.pfa /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/VeraMono.ttf /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/Cyberbit.ttf /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/cour.pfa /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/Vera.ttf /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/luxisr.ttf Obviously, Korean chars are coming from Cyberbit TTF fonts. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 17:09:03 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:09:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050604165611.GC2621-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604165611.GC2621@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 05:00:37PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> lsof -p `pidof firefox-bin|tr ' ' ','`|cut -c62-|grep fonts|sort|uniq\ >> >fonts.used > > What's the reason for 'tr' there? Turns spaces into commas. E.g. 1 2 3 becomes 1,2,3 > I have '18x18ko'. If it's from XFree86 or Xorg, then I have it. So, I > don't Korean chars are coming from that. My 'lsof' shows > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/l048013t.pfa > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/VeraMono.ttf > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/Cyberbit.ttf > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/cour.pfa > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/Vera.ttf > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/luxisr.ttf > Obviously, Korean chars are coming from Cyberbit TTF fonts. Ok. locate comes up empty on Cyberbit here. So there must be another way ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 4 18:01:24 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:01:24 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <42A1A290.6080002-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 6/4/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > David Thornton wrote: > > > > At allstream we use it in our golden master and it's great.. I never > > have to worry about time .. well nearly never. > > That's good to know -- but how accurate is it? A government agency I > know of doesn't use NTP but some proprietary solution, as they don't > think NTP is accurate enough. I dunno if that's bias, or fact, or issues > with Windows's implementation of NTP. There are issues with the Microsoft implementation of their "network time protocol" server; the problem is that it isn't actually NTP. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 05:46:04 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:46:04 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050604061306.GA10370-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 02:13:06AM -0400, William Park wrote > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 01:52:30AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > Me. My /usr/share/fonts/100dpi dir has almost 1900 files. How is > > yours? Googling on the search term... > > We are on the right track. Can you post just > ls /usr/share/fonts > ? [m450][waltdnes][~] ls /usr/share/fonts 100dpi CID Type1 encodings local util 75dpi TTF default fonts.cache-1 misc But "ls -al" is probably better, because it gives an idea of how much stuff there is in each dir... [m450][waltdnes][~] ls -al /usr/share/fonts total 177 drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 328 Mar 22 06:15 . drwxr-xr-x 99 root root 2672 May 18 17:53 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 79760 Jun 4 01:46 100dpi drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 79760 May 26 07:58 75dpi drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 176 May 26 07:58 CID drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 872 May 26 07:58 TTF drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1984 May 26 07:58 Type1 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 208 May 26 07:58 default drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 1336 May 26 07:57 encodings -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 171 Mar 22 06:17 fonts.cache-1 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 144 May 26 07:58 local drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 12432 May 26 07:58 misc drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 664 May 26 07:58 util -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 06:12:14 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:12:14 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050605054434.GC21773-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 01:46:04AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 02:13:06AM -0400, William Park wrote > > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 01:52:30AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > > > Me. My /usr/share/fonts/100dpi dir has almost 1900 files. How is > > > yours? Googling on the search term... > > > > We are on the right track. Can you post just > > ls /usr/share/fonts > > [m450][waltdnes][~] ls /usr/share/fonts > 100dpi CID Type1 encodings local util > 75dpi TTF default fonts.cache-1 misc Wait... this is awefully close to my /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I think your distro puts fonts in /usr/share/fonts, whereas mine (Slackware) puts them in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I do have some fonts in /usr/share/fonts, but they are Braille. Try find /usr/share/fonts -name 'hangl*' You should see hanglm16.pcf.gz hanglm24.pcf.gz hanglg16.pcf.gz In any case, can you post listing of ./TTF/ directory? That's what I'm interested in. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:14:26 2005 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:14:26 -0400 Subject: :Help on controlling BASH Message-ID: <200506051014.26959.wildberger@cogeco.ca> > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:42:48AM -0400, pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I like coloured command prompts. My current one is: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?PS1='\e[1;31m\h\e[m::\e[1;33m\w\e[m \e[1;32m>\e[m' As always with Linux there are numerous ways to do things. I use the following prompt: PS1="\n[\u]\033[7;36m\]:\t [\w]\033[0m\]\n\\$" This gives me the full path, the time, and the $ at the end recognizes root or user. it also starts the prompt enter point at the next line. Works just fine for me! But each to his own :-) John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:29:21 2005 From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:29:21 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer Message-ID: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. TIA Lada -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 13:33:23 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:33:23 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050605061214.GA4447-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200506050933.23440.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On June 5, 2005 02:12 am, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 01:46:04AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 02:13:06AM -0400, William Park wrote > > > > > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 01:52:30AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > Me. My /usr/share/fonts/100dpi dir has almost 1900 files. How is > > > > yours? Googling on the search term... > > > > > > We are on the right track. Can you post just > > > ls /usr/share/fonts > > > > [m450][waltdnes][~] ls /usr/share/fonts > > 100dpi CID Type1 encodings local util > > 75dpi TTF default fonts.cache-1 misc > > Wait... this is awefully close to my /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I think > your distro puts fonts in /usr/share/fonts, whereas mine (Slackware) > puts them in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I do have some fonts in > /usr/share/fonts, but they are Braille. > > Try > find /usr/share/fonts -name 'hangl*' > You should see > hanglm16.pcf.gz > hanglm24.pcf.gz > hanglg16.pcf.gz > > In any case, can you post listing of ./TTF/ directory? That's what I'm > interested in. Just a suggestion here, but why dont you try and find a slackware based live cd that works with the fonts or sites you want, and then look in their filesystem and see how they accomplished it. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:40:41 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:40:41 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <42A1A290.6080002-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050605144041.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 08:46:08AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > That's good to know -- but how accurate is it? A government agency I > know of doesn't use NTP but some proprietary solution, as they don't > think NTP is accurate enough. I dunno if that's bias, or fact, or issues > with Windows's implementation of NTP. Well if you want time accurate to the uS then runbning your own stratum 0 or 1 server may be necesary. You can buy atomic clocks for just such a use, or you can use a timing gps module to get your time off GPS which gives very accurate time too. Those can feed into ntpd and provide a very accurate clock, or in the case of some products you can run special software they sell on windows to use the inputs to give accurate time. I have no idea if the time on windows does anymore than a regular ntpdate call to keep time accurate. I don't think they have an ntpd equivalant built in. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:43:00 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:43:00 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <42A1A59C.8090302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050604060254.GA10220@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A1A59C.8090302@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050605144300.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 08:59:08AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I'd be a bit careful with Cyberbit. I know machines are a lot beefier > than they used to be, but having a single TTF of 23MB in memory isn't > going to do anyting for your font rendering speed. Proofing a page in > Cyberbit once locked up my Sun Ultra 10 for five minutes. Do you think it actually loads the whole font into ram rather than just the characters it is currently using? > The output from 'xset q' might be more useful, as would looking through > /etc/fonts/local.conf. /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/ looks the same to > me, too, but I also have /usr/share/fonts/corefonts (MS Core Fonts; > which don't have CJKV, being WGL4) and /usr/share/fonts/ttf-gentium (SIL > Gentium, an attempt to do a true and complete Unicode font for free). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:43:01 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:43:01 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <281260-22005605142921539-W0n0SfJnmvOZ8YYJsr7BYUEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <42A30F75.2010509@golden.net> lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: >I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to >do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. > >TIA >Lada > > > > > > Check out http://www.torontopcstores.com/ John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:44:13 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:44:13 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603190040.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050603193755.GB4034@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050603200117.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050605144413.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 05:01:18PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >The slackware developer is a slacker and expects you to do the hard work > >yourself? :) > > What 'hard work' ? ;-) All of it. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:47:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:47:18 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> Message-ID: <20050605144718.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:42:48AM -0400, pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello > > I have noticed over the past 10 years a "feature" about BASH (or > probably xterm) that has me mildly annoyed. It is only now that I > wish to discuss it since no one I know of has complained about it. > > I like coloured command prompts. My current one is: > PS1='\e[1;31m\h\e[m::\e[1;33m\w\e[m \e[1;32m>\e[m' > Now if I type in a command, say of more than 20 characters, the > display goes nuts. That is, the cursor jumps to the previous line on > some nonrandom column and continues for another 5 or 6 characters, > then jumps to the previous line to that. > > This could be a problem with xterm, although trying it now on a > console, there is an earliy linebreak to the line below, so the > program running the command line just deals with the bug differently. > > Now, if I type a line, I would like it to be *me* that inserts the > carriage returns; not the program. Is there a way to do this? Bash is not aware of escape codes so it just sees a prompt consisting of some 40 or 50 characters, and assumes that is how many characters wide the prompt is. So when the prompt length and the amount typed reaches the width of the display, it wants to wrap and continue on another line. So either you have to figure a way to tell bash the real length of the prompt or use a shell that does know about escape codes. I think zsh might, but I am not sure. I do have something similar to yours above in my zsh setup and it wraps at the right location every time. I guess that means zsh does do the right thing. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 14:48:55 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:48:55 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <281260-22005605142921539-W0n0SfJnmvOZ8YYJsr7BYUEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <20050605144855.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 10:29:21AM -0400, lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to > do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. Used perhaps. For the non cheap solution, you can probably still buy brand new Epson LQ 24pin dot matrix printers. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 15:20:28 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: dedicated hosting in GTA? In-Reply-To: <42A04DD6.4030005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <42A04DD6.4030005@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050605152028.76481.qmail@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> > >>Very expensive. That is what I am already used to > >>say about Canadian > >>hosting. I am afraid I will go USA. See this: > >>http://www.netmar.com/ > > > > > > I hope you don't mind driving 10 hours to do a > reboot > > ;-) > > > > Fernando, are you a Windows user? I was joking. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 16:47:16 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:47:16 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050605144300.GT23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <200506031342.52094.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <42A0A633.8030703@ca.afilias.info> <20050603190303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050604060254.GA10220@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A1A59C.8090302@sympatico.ca> <20050605144300.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42A32C94.20101@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Do you think it actually loads the whole font into ram rather than just > the characters it is currently using? I think it did; ssh'ing in from another machine (since X was locked) showed that the font rendering engine was a) eating most of core and b) using 99% CPU. I hope that font handling is a bit smarter in newer versions of X, but the OP's response that the machine seemed to pause every now and then might make me think otherwise. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 16:55:55 2005 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:55:55 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <20050605144855.GW23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> <20050605144855.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200506051255.55479.glayng@sympatico.ca> I just checked Staples.ca, and found they carry 3 dot-matrix printers. They're not cheap, from about $420 to $650, but they ARE new. On June 5, 2005 10:48, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 10:29:21AM -0400, lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to > > do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. > > Used perhaps. For the non cheap solution, you can probably still buy > brand new Epson LQ 24pin dot matrix printers. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 16:59:45 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:59:45 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <281260-22005605142921539-W0n0SfJnmvOZ8YYJsr7BYUEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <42A32F81.2050302@sympatico.ca> lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to > do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. The humble DMP is now a niche item, and is expected to be a heavy-duty workhorse. Cheapest I saw new was about $200, from GreyTech (via ). If you want to go really old-skool, I've got an IBM Wheelwriter daisywheel. Slow, but real purty. If/when you buy this, make sure you can drive it as a text printer. You don't want to know how slow and cruddy an impact printer doing graphics can be ... (and at this point, someone will no doubt reminisce about how they did their thesis graphs with a daisywheel driver that used the period character as pixels). Stewart (who used to know one of the senior designers of the Okidata ML series) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 18:33:20 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:33:20 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <20050605144041.GS23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> <20050605144041.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42A34570.1080101@interlog.com> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 08:46:08AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> That's good to know -- but how accurate is it? A government agency I >> know of doesn't use NTP but some proprietary solution, as they don't >> think NTP is accurate enough. I dunno if that's bias, or fact, or issues >> with Windows's implementation of NTP. > > I set my computers clock using ntp and the time information from time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov (a machine run by the the National Institue of Standards and Technology in Colorado) . Under Windows, the program I use indicates its using SNTP as the protocol to connect to the same machine. The NIST have an atomic clock and use the time from that clock for the voice announcements you hear over shortwave via radio stations WWV, WWVH, and WWVB. I wind up with my computer clock set (within a fraction of a second) to the same time as the voice announcements I hear via shortwave. No other Internet address has given me time information as close to that of WWV/WWVH/WWVB. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 20:30:53 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:30:53 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <42A34570.1080101-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> <20050605144041.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42A34570.1080101@interlog.com> Message-ID: <42A360FD.1020709@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 08:46:08AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > >>> That's good to know -- but how accurate is it? A government agency I >>> know of doesn't use NTP but some proprietary solution, as they don't >>> think NTP is accurate enough. I dunno if that's bias, or fact, or issues >>> with Windows's implementation of NTP. >> >> > I set my computers clock using ntp and the time information from > time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov (a machine run by the the National Institue > of Standards and Technology in Colorado) . Under Windows, the program I > use indicates its using SNTP as the protocol to connect to the same > machine. The NIST have an atomic clock and use the time from that clock > for the voice announcements you hear over shortwave via radio stations > WWV, WWVH, and WWVB. I wind up with my computer clock set (within a > fraction of a second) to the same time as the voice announcements I hear > via shortwave. No other Internet address has given me time information > as close to that of WWV/WWVH/WWVB. I use time.nrc.ca, which is the National Research Council in Ottawa. I assume their clocks are reasonably accurate. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 22:21:09 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:21:09 -0400 Subject: ntp inquiry In-Reply-To: <42A360FD.1020709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506031350.40231.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A13467.7020201@quadratic.net> <42A1A290.6080002@sympatico.ca> <20050605144041.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42A34570.1080101@interlog.com> <42A360FD.1020709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42A37AD5.4030108@interlog.com> James Knott wrote: >I use time.nrc.ca, which is the National Research Council in Ottawa. I >assume their clocks are reasonably accurate. > > Last time I tried using time information from the NRC I found there was a slight (less than a second?) but noticeable difference betweent the time I got and what I heard from CHU/WWV* so I have stayed with the time from the NIST. BTW, you can also get time from the NIST by using time-b or time-c in place of time-a. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 5 22:22:51 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:22:51 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <42A32F81.2050302-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> <42A32F81.2050302@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 6/5/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to > > do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. > > [...] > > If/when you buy this, make sure you can drive it as a text printer. You > don't want to know how slow and cruddy an impact printer doing graphics > can be ... (and at this point, someone will no doubt reminisce about how > they did their thesis graphs with a daisywheel driver that used the > period character as pixels). When I worked at AES Data in the late 70's, our product (a standalone word processor) used a daisywheel printer made by Qume -- every now and again the printer would go bezerk and shoot its carriage to the far aside with quite a loud bang. Fortunately, the units were well built, and they recovered well after a power down/up cycle. Nope, no graphics stories. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 02:24:31 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:24:31 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> <42A32F81.2050302@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42A3B3DF.7060900@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > When I worked at AES Data in the late 70's, our product (a standalone > word processor) used a daisywheel printer made by Qume -- every now > and again the printer would go bezerk and shoot its carriage to the > far aside with quite a loud bang. Fortunately, the units were well > built, and they recovered well after a power down/up cycle. Many years ago, I used to service print wheel printers, from Singer. Occasionally, the carriage return solenoid would be turned on continuously and over heat, preventing the carriage from feeding. Also, on one occasion, had to repair a Teletype ASR 35, where the carriage slipped off the end of it's track, hitting some contacts on the paper tape punch, sparking a fire! Ahh... Those were the days. ;-) > > Nope, no graphics stories. Back then people would often have paper tapes, that would print various pictures. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 03:51:07 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:51:07 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050605061214.GA4447-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050606034839.GA13624@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 02:12:14AM -0400, William Park wrote > On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 01:46:04AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > [m450][waltdnes][~] ls /usr/share/fonts > > 100dpi CID Type1 encodings local util > > 75dpi TTF default fonts.cache-1 misc > > Wait... this is awefully close to my /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I think > your distro puts fonts in /usr/share/fonts, whereas mine (Slackware) > puts them in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I do have some fonts in > /usr/share/fonts, but they are Braille. [m450][waltdnes][~] ll /usr/X* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Mar 22 06:15 /usr/X11R6 -> ../usr ******************** Whatever you do, *DON'T* tell your backup software to de-reference symlinks when dealing with directories. I made that mistake *ONCE*... a few years ago. After waiting for a long fsck to straighten things out after it locked my system, I never did it again. Fun and games... [m450][waltdnes][~] cd /usr [m450][waltdnes][/usr] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] cd X11R6/ [m450][waltdnes][/usr/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6/X11R6] I'm running Gentoo, and there seems to be a slow directory migration ...damn, I forget which way it goes, but I vaguely remember /usr/X11R6. > Try > find /usr/share/fonts -name 'hangl*' > You should see > hanglm16.pcf.gz > hanglm24.pcf.gz > hanglg16.pcf.gz [m450][root][~]find /usr/share/fonts -name 'hangl*' /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglm16.pcf.gz /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglm24.pcf.gz /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglg16.pcf.gz > In any case, can you post listing of ./TTF/ directory? That's what > I'm interested in. [m450][waltdnes][~] ll /usr/share/fonts/TTF total 1561 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 872 May 26 07:58 . drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 328 Mar 22 06:15 .. -r--r--r-- 1 root root 65932 May 26 07:55 Vera.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 63208 May 26 07:55 VeraBI.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 58716 May 26 07:55 VeraBd.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 63684 May 26 07:55 VeraIt.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 55032 May 26 07:55 VeraMoBI.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 49052 May 26 07:55 VeraMoBd.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 54508 May 26 07:55 VeraMoIt.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 49224 May 26 07:55 VeraMono.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 60280 May 26 07:55 VeraSe.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 58736 May 26 07:55 VeraSeBd.ttf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3965 May 26 07:58 encodings.dir -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13488 May 26 07:58 fonts.cache-1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18808 May 26 07:58 fonts.dir -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18808 May 26 07:58 fonts.scale -r--r--r-- 1 root root 74076 May 26 07:55 luximb.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 69872 May 26 07:55 luximbi.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 71784 May 26 07:55 luximr.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 69496 May 26 07:55 luximri.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 87160 May 26 07:55 luxirb.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 85756 May 26 07:55 luxirbi.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 88732 May 26 07:55 luxirr.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 86396 May 26 07:55 luxirri.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 69972 May 26 07:55 luxisb.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 65568 May 26 07:55 luxisbi.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 67548 May 26 07:55 luxisr.ttf -r--r--r-- 1 root root 66372 May 26 07:55 luxisri.ttf -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 05:59:31 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:59:31 -0400 Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050606034839.GA13624-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050606034839.GA13624@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050606055931.GA3092@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 11:51:07PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > [m450][root][~]find /usr/share/fonts -name 'hangl*' > /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglm16.pcf.gz > /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglm24.pcf.gz > /usr/share/fonts/misc/hanglg16.pcf.gz Yup, that's Daewoo fonts, included in official XFree86/Xorg. > [m450][waltdnes][~] ll /usr/share/fonts/TTF > total 1561 > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 872 May 26 07:58 . > drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 328 Mar 22 06:15 .. > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 65932 May 26 07:55 Vera.ttf ... > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 74076 May 26 07:55 luximb.ttf ... Thanks Walter. I have these. They are open sourced by Bitstream, and they don't have non-Latin stuffs. Slackware is not that behind other distro, after all. I figured out that Firefox only does TTF/Type1, and goes through /etc/fonts/fonts.conf. Not /etc/X11/XF86Config. I was confused, because Netscape-7.1 and Konqueror were picking up Daewoo fonts, but not Firefox. Conversely, Firefox was picking up Cyberbit font, but not Netscape-7.1 or Konqueror. By the way, I like Cyberbit... one file to download and install. But, for reference, other Korean fonts can be found at http://kldp.net/projects/unfonts/ which are the same fonts used in HLaTeX (Korean LaTeX). Next topic to nail down is inputting Korean chars through Firefox or Thunderbird. I'll post when I find out. I can do it through Vim/Mutt/Xterm, but that doesn't count (as we all know). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 08:14:09 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:14:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050606034839.GA13624-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050606034839.GA13624@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 02:12:14AM -0400, William Park wrote >> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 01:46:04AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >>> [m450][waltdnes][~] ls /usr/share/fonts >>> 100dpi CID Type1 encodings local util >>> 75dpi TTF default fonts.cache-1 misc >> >> Wait... this is awefully close to my /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I think >> your distro puts fonts in /usr/share/fonts, whereas mine (Slackware) >> puts them in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/. I do have some fonts in >> /usr/share/fonts, but they are Braille. > > [m450][waltdnes][~] ll /usr/X* > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Mar 22 06:15 /usr/X11R6 -> ../usr > ******************** > > Whatever you do, *DON'T* tell your backup software to de-reference > symlinks when dealing with directories. I made that mistake *ONCE*... a > few years ago. After waiting for a long fsck to straighten things out > after it locked my system, I never did it again. Fun and games... I wrote a small Perl script that finds such problems. It is a poorly written script but it works most of the time. http://users.actcom.co.il/~plp/cycl-1.0.tar Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 08:15:56 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:15:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Linux + Firefox + CJK chars In-Reply-To: <20050606055931.GA3092-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050603183632.GA3278@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050604055230.GA19913@waltdnes.org> <20050604061306.GA10370@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050605054434.GC21773@waltdnes.org> <20050605061214.GA4447@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050606034839.GA13624@waltdnes.org> <20050606055931.GA3092@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > Next topic to nail down is inputting Korean chars through Firefox or > Thunderbird. I'll post when I find out. I can do it through > Vim/Mutt/Xterm, but that doesn't count (as we all know). If you set the keyboard encoding etc to unicode it should work. It works for other languages with funny characters. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 15:51:42 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installfest photos and wiki Message-ID: I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it out there and hope somebody bites: I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the uploads page, but it's disabled. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 16:50:50 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:50:50 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe installfest #1 Message-ID: <42A47EEA.8070500@sympatico.ca> I just wanted to send a note of thanks to all who participated in linuxcaffes' first installfest, IMHO, it was a success ! There is, of course lots of room for improvement in both the process and the venue, but it seems like the installers had fun and the installees left satisfied. I plan to make this sort of thing a regular happening, and will be doing my utmost to co-ordinate things. I look forward to seeing you all again soon at the caffe (opening tomorrow, barring plumbing upgrade misfortune) and am eager to receive any feedback you might have. thanks again, may the source be with you ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 17:19:48 2005 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:19:48 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <20050605144718.GV23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> <20050605144718.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200506061319.49131.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Sunday 05 June 2005 10:47 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Bash is not aware of escape codes so it just sees a prompt consisting of > some 40 or 50 characters, and assumes that is how many characters wide > the prompt is. So when the prompt length and the amount typed reaches > the width of the display, it wants to wrap and continue on another line. > So either you have to figure a way to tell bash the real length of the > prompt or use a shell that does know about escape codes. I think zsh > might, but I am not sure. I do have something similar to yours above in > my zsh setup and it wraps at the right location every time. I guess > that means zsh does do the right thing. Lennart, It appears to me that Bash is not confused by escape codes. Here are some sample bash lines (Mandrake 10): 1 john [~]$ echo $PS1 2 \u [\w]\$ 3 john [~]$ 4 john [~]$ PS1="\n\e[43;1m[\h]\e[m [\u]:\e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] 5 \e[m\n\\$" 6 7 [localhost] [john]: 01:02 PM [~] 8 $ here you can type a command that exceeds the display field over several lines. line 4 changes the prompt from the original (line 3) to a deliberate complex structure to give color control. The line wraps correctly over to line 5 without giving any problems. The four items in the new prompt are color controlled. The hostname is in read, the user name is in neutral, the time is in green and the current path is in blue. There is a newline at the beginning and a newline at the end to permit a full line for command usage.. The \\$ at the very end ensures that the $prompt changes to a # when used with 'su'. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 17:44:57 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:44:57 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <200506061319.49131.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> <20050605144718.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200506061319.49131.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20050606174457.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 01:19:48PM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > On Sunday 05 June 2005 10:47 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Bash is not aware of escape codes so it just sees a prompt consisting of > > some 40 or 50 characters, and assumes that is how many characters wide > > the prompt is. So when the prompt length and the amount typed reaches > > the width of the display, it wants to wrap and continue on another line. > > So either you have to figure a way to tell bash the real length of the > > prompt or use a shell that does know about escape codes. I think zsh > > might, but I am not sure. I do have something similar to yours above in > > my zsh setup and it wraps at the right location every time. I guess > > that means zsh does do the right thing. > > Lennart, > It appears to me that Bash is not confused by escape codes. > Here are some sample bash lines (Mandrake 10): > > 1 john [~]$ echo $PS1 > 2 \u [\w]\$ > 3 john [~]$ > 4 john [~]$ PS1="\n\e[43;1m[\h]\e[m [\u]:\e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] > 5 \e[m\n\\$" > 6 > 7 [localhost] [john]: 01:02 PM [~] > 8 $ here you can type a command that exceeds the display field over several > lines. > > line 4 changes the prompt from the original (line 3) to a deliberate complex > structure to give color control. The line wraps correctly over to line 5 > without giving any problems. The four items in the new prompt are color > controlled. The hostname is in read, the user name is in neutral, the time is > in green and the current path is in blue. There is a newline at the beginning > and a newline at the end to permit a full line for command usage.. The \\$ at > the very end ensures that the $prompt changes to a # when used with 'su'. > John The new line is a feature of bash that it knows about, so it starts counting fresh. If it works without that newline in the prompt, then I will be impressed, since I don't think bash knows about escape codes (being escape stuff, not just bash \ codes). Your test doesn't seem to show anything. Of course setting PS1= works since bash sees plain ascii charaters being typed as a command and of course that wraps fine. It is when it tries to display the prompt and figure out how long it is that things break, which your newline at the end of the prompt conviniently avoids by starting a new prompt line with no escape codes to confuse bash. I personally can't imagine wanting to have a two line prompt. Seems inefficient. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 17:57:06 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe installfest #1 In-Reply-To: <42A47EEA.8070500-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42A47EEA.8070500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > happening, and will be doing my utmost to co-ordinate things. I look > forward to seeing you all again soon at the caffe (opening tomorrow, So the day as finally arrived. Congratulations to the Patrick family (including Diesel the hyperactive dog ;) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 19:27:12 2005 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:27:12 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <20050606174457.GX23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> <200506061319.49131.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20050606174457.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200506061527.12093.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Monday 06 June 2005 01:44 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The new line is a feature of bash that it knows about, so it starts > counting fresh. If it works without that newline in the prompt, then I > will be impressed, since I don't think bash knows about escape codes > (being escape stuff, not just bash \ codes). Your test doesn't seem to > show anything. Of course setting PS1= works since bash sees plain ascii > charaters being typed as a command and of course that wraps fine. It is > when it tries to display the prompt and figure out how long it is that > things break, which your newline at the end of the prompt conviniently > avoids by starting a new prompt line with no escape codes to confuse > bash. > > I personally can't imagine wanting to have a two line prompt. Seems > inefficient. 1 [john]: 02:57 PM [~] $ PS1="\u [\w]\$ " 2 john [~]$ 3 john [~]$ PS1="\n\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] 4 \e[m\n\\$" 5 6 [john]: 02:59 PM [~] 7 $PS1="\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] \e[m\\$" 8 [john]: 03:00 PM [~] $ 9 [john]: 03:00 PM [~] $ PS1="\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m 10 [\w] \e[m\n\\$" 11 [john]: 03:08 PM [~] 12 $ Line 1: PS1 changed to simple prompt Line 3: Changed to complex prompt with \n at both ends Line 7: similar to line 3,but without the two newlines. Line 8: new prompt. Line 9: similar to line 3, but with \n at the end only Line 12 Entry point for new commands. As an aside, I usually add my newly modified prompt to /etc/bashrc. This way the modification will be seen by all users and by root. I also don't bother of showing the \h option, which would just show 'localhost' in my usage. It might be useful for more sophisticated users though! Why you want to use prompt extending over several lines: When compiling from source there is a stage when you have to execute ./configure. This might require sometimes a long string of options that can easily extend over several lines. Examples can be found in LFS (Linux From Scratch). With my modified prompt I had never any problems, even with as many as 4 lines of commands and options strung together. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 19:38:14 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:38:14 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <200506061527.12093.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> <200506061319.49131.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20050606174457.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200506061527.12093.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20050606193814.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 03:27:12PM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > On Monday 06 June 2005 01:44 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > The new line is a feature of bash that it knows about, so it starts > > counting fresh. If it works without that newline in the prompt, then I > > will be impressed, since I don't think bash knows about escape codes > > (being escape stuff, not just bash \ codes). Your test doesn't seem to > > show anything. Of course setting PS1= works since bash sees plain ascii > > charaters being typed as a command and of course that wraps fine. It is > > when it tries to display the prompt and figure out how long it is that > > things break, which your newline at the end of the prompt conviniently > > avoids by starting a new prompt line with no escape codes to confuse > > bash. > > > > I personally can't imagine wanting to have a two line prompt. Seems > > inefficient. > > > 1 [john]: 02:57 PM [~] $ PS1="\u [\w]\$ " > 2 john [~]$ > 3 john [~]$ PS1="\n\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] > 4 \e[m\n\\$" > 5 > 6 [john]: 02:59 PM [~] > 7 $PS1="\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m [\w] \e[m\\$" > 8 [john]: 03:00 PM [~] $ > 9 [john]: 03:00 PM [~] $ PS1="\e[43;1m[\u]:\e[m \e[42;1m \@ \e[m \e[44;1m > 10 [\w] \e[m\n\\$" > 11 [john]: 03:08 PM [~] > 12 $ > > Line 1: PS1 changed to simple prompt > Line 3: Changed to complex prompt with \n at both ends > Line 7: similar to line 3,but without the two newlines. > Line 8: new prompt. > Line 9: similar to line 3, but with \n at the end only > Line 12 Entry point for new commands. > > As an aside, I usually add my newly modified prompt to /etc/bashrc. This way > the modification will be seen by all users and by root. I also don't bother > of showing the \h option, which would just show 'localhost' in my usage. It > might be useful for more sophisticated users though! > > Why you want to use prompt extending over several lines: > When compiling from source there is a stage when you have to > execute ./configure. This might require sometimes a long string of options > that can easily extend over several lines. Examples can be found in LFS > (Linux From Scratch). With my modified prompt I had never any problems, even > with as many as 4 lines of commands and options strung together. Which version of bash are you using? It does not do proper wrapping here using bash 2.05.0(1)-release using your prompt above. When I switch to bash3 then it does work. bash2 is often the default due to bugs/incompatible changes in bash3. You may be using bash 3.x which likely fixed that problem in a similar way to how zsh has fixed it years ago. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 21:10:05 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:10:05 -0400 Subject: TUX | The First and Only Magazine for the New Linux User Message-ID: <42A4BBAD.10002@rogers.com> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 21:20:50 2005 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:20:50 -0400 Subject: Help on controlling BASH command line In-Reply-To: <20050606193814.GY23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42A193B8.8671.E1BC242@localhost> <200506061527.12093.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20050606193814.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200506061720.50597.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Monday 06 June 2005 03:38 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Which version of bash are you using? > > It does not do proper wrapping here using bash 2.05.0(1)-release using > your prompt above. > > When I switch to bash3 then it does work. bash2 is often the default > due to bugs/incompatible changes in bash3. > > You may be using bash 3.x which likely fixed that problem in a similar > way to how zsh has fixed it years ago. > > Lennart Sorensen Hi Lennart, I am glade you take an interst in this little side issue. [john]: 03:08 PM [~] $bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i586-mandrake-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. [john]: 05:10 PM [~] $ Actually, there is a problem with bash ver 3. It limited the line to about 20 char. There is a patch available that fixed this problem, but I do not recall what the batch number is. It was due to this that I converted back to ver 2.05 and even after I found out about the patch for ver 3 I only verified that it cured the problem, but decided to stay with 2.05. There are also some other problems with ver 3 and it might take some time until all te bugs are taken care of. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 6 21:47:36 2005 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:47:36 -0400 Subject: :Help on controlling BASH command line Message-ID: <200506061747.36301.wildberger@cogeco.ca> In my reply to Lennard Sorensen I mentioned a bug in Bash Ver 3. The following is a detailed description: Cheers, John Submitted By: Jim Gifford (patches at jg555 dot com) Date: 2004-08-17 Initial Package Version: 3.0 Origin: Paul Jarc Upstream Status: Sent Description: Fixes a display issue which will only show 33 characters then wrap to the next line. --- bash-3.0/lib/readline/display.c.orig 2004-08-17 20:24:39.290067304 +0000 +++ bash-3.0/lib/readline/display.c 2004-08-17 20:24:44.432285568 +0000 @@ -351,14 +351,14 @@ local_prompt = expand_prompt (p, &prompt_visible_length, &prompt_last_invisible, (int *)NULL, - (int *)NULL); + &prompt_physical_chars); c = *t; *t = '\0'; /* The portion of the prompt string up to and including the final newline is now null-terminated. */ local_prompt_prefix = expand_prompt (prompt, &prompt_prefix_length, (int *)NULL, &prompt_invis_chars_first_line, - &prompt_physical_chars); + (int *)NULL); *t = c; return (prompt_prefix_length); } -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 02:19:00 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector needed June 14 Message-ID: Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night (as we've had in the past). TIA. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 02:34:45 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:34:45 -0400 Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at > the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night > (as we've had in the past). TIA. Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see about seeing to it... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 02:59:16 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at > > the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night > > (as we've had in the past). TIA. > > Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see > about seeing to it... Thanks Chris. I'll certainly try :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 04:30:09 2005 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:30:09 -0400 Subject: June PHLUG meeting tonight on the 7th at 7pm. Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050607002513.01f806b0@mail.eol.ca> It is time for our next PHLUG meeting already, tonight. Just as before, lets set - the start time as 7pm. - The Location will be Mulligans again at the Woodchester Mall in Mississauga (off Dundas between Erin Mills Parkway and Winston Churchill). You couldn't ask for nicer weather to come out. Hope to see you hours from now. There are a lot of changes happening with Linux. Come share what you have heard and read and see what others have to say. Until then, Bill Mudry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 15:54:47 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:54:47 -0700 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll look into it. It may take a few days. -Joseph- On 6/6/05, John Vetterli wrote: > I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it > out there and hope somebody bites: > > I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is > it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the > uploads page, but it's disabled. > > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 18:00:27 2005 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:00:27 -0400 Subject: Linux and Sears Catalog CDROM Message-ID: <200506071400.27828.dbmacg@look.ca> My wife is a keen user of the SEARS catalog. The latest Fall/Winter Catalog came yesterday, and of course it is only readable on Windoze or the Mac. It is a .EXE file. Has anybody had any success reading it in Linux? --- Duncan MacGregor --Toronto -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 18:19:14 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:19:14 -0400 Subject: TUX | The First and Only Magazine for the New Linux User In-Reply-To: <42A4BBAD.10002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42A4BBAD.10002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42A5E522.5080206@interlog.com> James Knott wrote: > > The June issue which came out recently is their third issue. Available for free off their web site and can be delivered straight to your Inbox. Files are PDFs and formatted for computer screens so you can read a whole page without needing to scroll up and down. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 18:26:03 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:26:03 -0400 Subject: Linux and Sears Catalog CDROM In-Reply-To: <200506071400.27828.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <200506071400.27828.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20050607182603.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 02:00:27PM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > My wife is a keen user of the SEARS catalog. > The latest Fall/Winter Catalog > came yesterday, and of course it is only readable on Windoze or the Mac. > It is a .EXE file. > > Has anybody had any success reading it in Linux? Have you tried wine? What does it look like in windows? Some VB program, flash, installshield/demoshiled? You can often tell just by looking at it what crap technology widget was used to make it. Most companies don't invest much programing effort into those things themselves. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 23:20:57 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:20:57 -0400 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <281260-22005605142921539-W0n0SfJnmvOZ8YYJsr7BYUEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <42A62BD9.50300@sympatico.ca> A store near my place had an older, but unused (still in the box), DMP for about $20. It was bulky and looked like a real workhorse. I don't remember the model, but when I checked into it a while back I couldn't find any clue as to whether it worked with Linux. I'm not even sure it had a drivers disk for DOS. If you want, I'll drop by and check if it's still there and make a note of the model. John. lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: >I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to >do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. > >TIA >Lada > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 7 23:25:07 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:25:07 -0400 Subject: Linux and Sears Catalog CDROM In-Reply-To: <200506071400.27828.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <200506071400.27828.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <42A62CD3.9050204@rogers.com> Duncan MacGregor wrote: > My wife is a keen user of the SEARS catalog. > The latest Fall/Winter Catalog > came yesterday, and of course it is only readable on Windoze or the Mac. > It is a .EXE file. > > Has anybody had any success reading it in Linux? Have you tried running it with Wine? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 00:35:54 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:35:54 -0400 Subject: just am extraordinarily curious about "Adobe GoLive 6" In-Reply-To: <429BA2B8.2060804-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429BA2B8.2060804@istop.com> Message-ID: <42A63D6A.8020702@istop.com> Have a bad luck to take care of web site of my friend, who himself is ignorant rather in web development but has large ambitions to change that. There are a few points here. 1. I run apache web server on a Linux. 2. He checks his work by opening a file from Windows computer (not from a web server). In his case the web site works fine. In my case does not. And I am afraid that it can not. Why? The web site is done by using "Adobe GoLive 6" - what a hell is that, btw? It is based on a heavy use of JavaScript. However, the directory structure is not "vertical" but "horizontal" while paths to scripts and images are encoded as relative and, from the server "point of view" they go outside of server document root directory.. The site could run if URL had the address http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/my-really-first-step/ But it could not run with URL http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/ Now, my question is, who are really ignorants here: me, they (this case is rather not doubtfull), or perhaps Adobe? As an additional note, a something of social nature of programming, about the pains a person like me earning for living that way has to pass sometime ;) They say: you will take care to improve the code later. But the point is that improving code of others (in fact a machine generated code) is the most difficult task a programmer would like to receive... I would rather write the code from scratch myself.. but than they will not be able to use "Adobe GoLive 6" ;))) Any advise? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 01:12:02 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:12:02 -0400 Subject: just am extraordinarily curious about "Adobe GoLive 6" In-Reply-To: <42A63D6A.8020702-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429BA2B8.2060804@istop.com> <42A63D6A.8020702@istop.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b205060718127f72e72b@mail.gmail.com> I have used GoLive; next to Dreamweaver it's the most popular pro-level WYSIWYG HTML authoring app out there. I'm not sure I truly understand the problem you're having, but I wouldn't hasten to blame the application for it. GoLive works with Site Maps that it creates (very similar to DW). The site map hierarchy should be file-for-file reflected on your server's /htdocs directory or whatever the web root is. If files are going outside the site's root directory, that's the fault of the user of the application, not the application itself. GoLive, like hand-coding, allows you to screw up as easily as it allows you to get your work done right. :-) Hope that helps. Aaron. On 6/7/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Have a bad luck to take care of web site of my friend, who himself is > ignorant rather in web development but has large ambitions to change that. > > There are a few points here. > > 1. I run apache web server on a Linux. > 2. He checks his work by opening a file from Windows computer (not from > a web server). > > In his case the web site works fine. In my case does not. And I am > afraid that it can not. > > Why? The web site is done by using "Adobe GoLive 6" - what a hell is > that, btw? It is based on a heavy use of JavaScript. However, the > directory structure is not "vertical" but "horizontal" while paths to > scripts and images are encoded as relative and, from the server "point > of view" they go outside of server document root directory.. > > The site could run if URL had the address > http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/my-really-first-step/ > > But it could not run with URL > http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/ > > Now, my question is, who are really ignorants here: me, they (this case > is rather not doubtfull), or perhaps Adobe? > > As an additional note, a something of social nature of programming, > about the pains a person like me earning for living that way has to pass > sometime ;) They say: you will take care to improve the code later. But > the point is that improving code of others (in fact a machine generated > code) is the most difficult task a programmer would like to receive... I > would rather write the code from scratch myself.. but than they will not > be able to use "Adobe GoLive 6" ;))) > > Any advise? > > zb. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 02:13:12 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:13:12 -0400 Subject: just am extraordinarily curious about "Adobe GoLive 6" In-Reply-To: <4386c5b205060718127f72e72b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <429BA2B8.2060804@istop.com> <42A63D6A.8020702@istop.com> <4386c5b205060718127f72e72b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42A65438.4090404@istop.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > [...] > GoLive, like hand-coding, allows you to screw up as easily as it > allows you to get your work done right. :-) Hand-coding does not allow to "screw up" things easily. > Hope that helps. You did help me. Thank you. zb. > Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 06:40:23 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:40:23 +0800 Subject: x86-64 box Message-ID: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to recompile my kernel for this? tia, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 10:15:59 2005 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:15:59 -0400 Subject: Linux and Sears Catalog CDROM In-Reply-To: <42A62CD3.9050204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42A62CD3.9050204@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050608101625.07E30121342@acheron.ss.org> How did you manage to get a CD of the catalog? We just got that big old clunky paper thing that takes up too much space. -----Original Message----- Duncan MacGregor wrote: > My wife is a keen user of the SEARS catalog. > The latest Fall/Winter Catalog > came yesterday, and of course it is only readable on Windoze or the Mac. > It is a .EXE file. > > Has anybody had any success reading it in Linux? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 13:12:04 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:12:04 -0400 Subject: just am extraordinarily curious about "Adobe GoLive 6" In-Reply-To: <42A65438.4090404-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429BA2B8.2060804@istop.com> <42A63D6A.8020702@istop.com> <4386c5b205060718127f72e72b@mail.gmail.com> <42A65438.4090404@istop.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050608061224e1fc28@mail.gmail.com> > Hand-coding does not allow to "screw up" things easily. You're kidding, right? For example... If the web root was /home/aaron/htdocs, I could hand-code this: Hey look! I'm a really naive web developer. Don't confuse the adequacy of the tool with the inadequacy of a user. GoLive may not have the "purity" of hand-coding, but it's just as effective. That's all I'm saying. Cheers! Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 13:16:42 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:16:42 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506081440.23958.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050608131642.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to recompile my > kernel for this? You can run i386 on it just fine, but (at least if it is an amd) it will run faster with 64bit software in general. Debian includes a 64bit kernel and some 64bit libraries with their i386 version that can run on em64t and amd64 chips and let you run the system mainly 32bit, but run a few programs 64bit where it makes sense to do so, and of course you can run the unofficail amd64 port of Sarge in a chroot to install 64bit packages which you can then run either in the chroot or from outside (as long as the chroot's lib dirs are in /etc/ld.so.conf. I find it works great that way. Base system is 32bit and known to work well, and for some thigns 64bit can be used even though it isn't officially supported yet. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 13:24:41 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:24:41 -0400 Subject: just am extraordinarily curious about "Adobe GoLive 6" In-Reply-To: <42A63D6A.8020702-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <429BA2B8.2060804@istop.com> <42A63D6A.8020702@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050608132441.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 08:35:54PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Have a bad luck to take care of web site of my friend, who himself is > ignorant rather in web development but has large ambitions to change that. Step one should be to learn html and a real text editor (with html highlighting perhaps), since using any of the awful web writing tools is NOT how you learn anything good or useful about making web sites. > There are a few points here. > > 1. I run apache web server on a Linux. > 2. He checks his work by opening a file from Windows computer (not from > a web server). Great way to check if you page works, as long as your web site consists of only one page. Links that work in such a test often do not work on a real web server using http. > In his case the web site works fine. In my case does not. And I am > afraid that it can not. > > Why? The web site is done by using "Adobe GoLive 6" - what a hell is > that, btw? It is based on a heavy use of JavaScript. However, the > directory structure is not "vertical" but "horizontal" while paths to > scripts and images are encoded as relative and, from the server "point > of view" they go outside of server document root directory.. Well apache can be made less secure to allow doing symlinks to outside and of coruse aliases can be set up to make scripts work. Often scripts are stored outside the website dirs. An alias is used to make a location that looks like it is inside the web site actually be somewhere else where scritps are stored. > The site could run if URL had the address > http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/my-really-first-step/ > > But it could not run with URL > http://www.my-silyy-first-steps-in-html.com/ Well apache's rewrite module or perhaps an alias can fix that too. Or perhaps the user just used the wrong options setting up the site in the program. > Now, my question is, who are really ignorants here: me, they (this case > is rather not doubtfull), or perhaps Adobe? Adobe probably assumes anyone using such a tool will host it in a rather dumbed down windows web server where only their stuff is running. > As an additional note, a something of social nature of programming, > about the pains a person like me earning for living that way has to pass > sometime ;) They say: you will take care to improve the code later. But > the point is that improving code of others (in fact a machine generated > code) is the most difficult task a programmer would like to receive... I > would rather write the code from scratch myself.. but than they will not > be able to use "Adobe GoLive 6" ;))) > > Any advise? Tell them to go host it somewhere else and avoid the stress? I don't know if I have ever seen a good web site design done with any web design tool. Certainly frontpage generates awful code (and breaks html pages just by opening them). Dreamweaver is perfectly able to generate code that only netscape4 can render (even IE can't deal with it if you turn on some really dumb options they give you). I haven't seen Adobe's tool, but I doubt it is any better. They assume the web server will let them do anything, some assume windows path names (that's so nice when you get it on a non windows web server), and they often don't even follow html standards but generate code that only works with some browsers when with small changes they could have worked everywhere. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 13:59:03 2005 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:59:03 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050608131642.GA23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050608131642.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42A6F9A7.8030407@utoronto.ca> Ubuntu also has x86-64 live cd. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 14:15:08 2005 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:15:08 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506081440.23958.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> JM wrote: > hi, > > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to recompile my > kernel for this? > > tia, The Real answer is: No, you don't Need to. However it will be faster if you do, and if you plan to run any 64-bit compiled programs. Besides the previously mentioned 64-bit distrubutions, theres also FC3-64 (Fedora Core), I currently using that, and I think Mandriva also has a 64-bit version. Woulden't be supprised if Suse had one too. Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 14:32:24 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:32:24 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A6FD6C.2020009-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 10:15, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Besides the previously mentioned 64-bit distrubutions, theres also > FC3-64 (Fedora Core), I currently using that, and I think Mandriva also > has a 64-bit version. Woulden't be supprised if Suse had one too. Ubuntu will send you AMD64 version of their OS, or download it. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/ Prefer KDE? Kubuntu does AMD64, too. http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/hoary/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 15:52:01 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:52:01 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <1118241144.3968.103.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> Hey, and since you want to squeeze every clock cycle out of your new box, do a Gentoo Stage 1 build on your amd64. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 16:28:35 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:28:35 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A71421.90201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Hey, and since you want to squeeze every clock cycle out of your new > box, do a Gentoo Stage 1 build on your amd64. Jerome, Assuming you are going with more than 4G of memory and want to use it, then go with SuSE. They did the port and their support for 64bit is still unrivaled (although debian and fedora are starting to get close). If you don't have more than 4G of memory then you're wasting your money going 64bit. You'll also get slightly better performance (for the vast majority of applications) running in 32 bit. There are plenty of excellent distros in this category. I'd recommend Ubuntu if you just want to use the box. Either way, you're better off ignoring the Gentoo kiddies. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCpxyxgfzn5SevSpoRArpNAJoCXzQCPhTYRC8nJxes2348G4aCzgCgkA82 SgF7fhYbUt3ET8N58lDLzIg= =eN26 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 16:39:39 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:39:39 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A71CB3.2020501-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> Andrew Hammond wrote: > > Either way, you're better off ignoring the Gentoo kiddies. care to justify that with something other than prejudice? cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 18:04:52 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:04:52 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A71421.90201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050608180452.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 11:52:01AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Hey, and since you want to squeeze every clock cycle out of your new > box, do a Gentoo Stage 1 build on your amd64. As if gcc has that good optimizations for it yet. Of course given there are only 2 amd64 chips out there so far I would think a generic binary would be fairly reasonable already. They are rather different though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 18:06:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:06:54 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A71CB3.2020501-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050608180654.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 12:28:35PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Assuming you are going with more than 4G of memory and want to use it, > then go with SuSE. They did the port and their support for 64bit is > still unrivaled (although debian and fedora are starting to get close). > > If you don't have more than 4G of memory then you're wasting your money > going 64bit. You'll also get slightly better performance (for the vast > majority of applications) running in 32 bit. There are plenty of > excellent distros in this category. I'd recommend Ubuntu if you just > want to use the box. > > Either way, you're better off ignoring the Gentoo kiddies. Actually many things run faster in 64bit mode on the athlon64 chips, while it seems the reverse is true on the intel em64t chips. For ram hungry applications it is worth it on both, but for general purpose, 64bit still is often faster on the AMDs while intel users may want to stick to 32bit for now unless they need to mmap large files for simplicity. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 18:36:29 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:36:29 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506081440.23958.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: On 6/8/05, JM wrote: > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to recompile my > kernel for this? If you recompile your kernel, then you'd better be prepared to recompile the entirety of the software on your system. -> It is a reasonable idea to run a plain old 32 bit "IA-32" distribution on an AMD-64 system. It will max out at about 2GB of memory, but if you don't have more RAM, then you likely won't care. You will, in such a case, be using the AMD-64 as a "fast IA-32 emulator," which does work out quite well. We have a box running like that which runs perfectly well. -> The alternative is to get a complete kernel and user space all compiled for use in 64 bit mode. There is a version of Debian for AMD64; Lennart Sorensen is quite active in efforts for that, and will doubtless point you to the right place. Red Hat Software has versions of Fedora and RHES/RHAS for AMD64. SuSE has much the same. For that matter, AMD64 is one of the supported platforms now for FreeBSD. And if you want to make sure that your CPU will be busy compiling things from now on, I believe that Gentoo has an AMD64 release. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 19:55:38 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 15:55:38 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A71F4B.3010904-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>Either way, you're better off ignoring the Gentoo kiddies. > > care to justify that with something other than prejudice? - - If you want stability, go with RHEL, SuSE or maybe debian stable. - - If you want performance, go with LFS or Slack and prepare to spend a couple of months tuning (assuming you have the necessary skills). - - If you want a good desktop, fedora and ubuntu seem popular. - - If you want rice, gentoo all the way. Comes with excellent documentation on how to bolt a 3 foot wing on your Dad's old P3. While it is theoretically possible to achieve better performance by compiling your own binaries, the amount of skill require to actually do so is substantial. Unless you're a professional systems / tools guru, you don't have the skill to build better binaries than the package maintainers for the major distros. Portage doesn't solve this problem. If anything, it aggravates it by giving people the impression that they have capabilities which they are actually lacking. Gentoo kiddies, don't seem capable of understanding this. Furthermore, for the vast majority of systems, the performance difference between perfectly optimized binaries and generic debian compiles will be un-noticable. However, I'm willing to bet large amounts of cash that a gentoo binary compiled by some amature "for performance" will never be more stable than the debian binary compiled by the package maintainer. Non-trivial binaries require even more skill and experience to build well. The idea of using a libc compiled by someone with less experience than the most Junior sysadmin is somewhat disturbing. But then I actually expect my computer to work. This is another thing that just seems beyond the grasp of your average Gentoo kiddy. Consider the growing trend for opensource developers to refuse to accept bug reports from Gentoo users. It's got nothing to do with prejudice. They simply don't want to waste their time dealing with spurious bug reports. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCp005gfzn5SevSpoRAkJJAJ4mtgMJ8lPXLd5X+w2+gTNv0csL8ACfSww+ g9XIXXPvcccurte6OMNKE+M= =TF1n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 22:45:55 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:45:55 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A74D3A.8010207-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <200506081845.56783.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 8, 2005 15:55, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>Either way, you're better off ignoring the Gentoo kiddies. > > > > care to justify that with something other than prejudice? > > - If you want stability, go with RHEL, SuSE or maybe debian stable. > - If you want performance, go with LFS or Slack and prepare to spend a > couple of months tuning (assuming you have the necessary skills). > - If you want a good desktop, fedora and ubuntu seem popular. > - If you want rice, gentoo all the way. Comes with excellent > documentation on how to bolt a 3 foot wing on your Dad's old P3. [snip] Hi Andrew, While I agree with your comments about the amount of skill required to compiling one's own binaries, I do not see how LFS or Slackware are better than Gentoo in this regard. It seems to me that Gentoo is essentially LFS or Slackware with decent package management. Perhaps you are referring to the culture of the community rather than something inherent to the design of Gentoo. I would also add Mandrake/Mandriva to the group of stable distros. Like most distros, it also has stable/testing/unstable branches. I have had any problems with stability with the "Official" (stable) releases. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 23:30:02 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:30:02 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506081845.56783.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> <200506081845.56783.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: Just a quick question: are all of the anti-Gentoo comments in this thread harmless teasing or actual zealotry? Personally I quite like Gentoo. The package manager is pretty nice, and having ebuilds for stuff like the Neverwinter Nights install was excellent. Also, I found the community to be tolerant of newbies, eager to help and not generally obsessed with performance. That being said, I think it's a perfectly valid choice for an x86-64 box. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 8 22:33:21 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:33:21 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A74D3A.8010207-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <42A77231.8090008@sympatico.ca> Andrew Hammond wrote: > Stewart C. Russell wrote: >... It's got nothing to do with prejudice. Well, that's your opinion, Andrew, and I respect it as such. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 02:57:30 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:57:30 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050608180452.GC23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <20050608180452.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/8/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 11:52:01AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Hey, and since you want to squeeze every clock cycle out of your new > > box, do a Gentoo Stage 1 build on your amd64. > > As if gcc has that good optimizations for it yet. > > Of course given there are only 2 amd64 chips out there so far I would > think a generic binary would be fairly reasonable already. They are > rather different though. No, no, he's entirely right. If the point of the exercise is to "squeeze every clock cycle out of your new box," there are few things that can conceivably be more successful at consuming trillions of clock cycles than running GCC over and over again hundreds of thousands of times in the course of recompiling all the software with whatever optimization options you imagine might be helpful. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 03:15:35 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:15:35 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> <200506081845.56783.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 6/8/05, Mike Newman wrote: > Just a quick question: are all of the anti-Gentoo comments in this > thread harmless teasing or actual zealotry? There are Gentoo users out there that are easy marks for ridicule because of fairly scintillating levels of ignorance that combine with similarly stellar levels of arrogance. http://funroll-loops.org/ "I don't think that Debian can really compete with Gentoo. Sure it might be okay, but when it comes to dependencies, you probably are still going to have to get them all on your own. Or is there something like portage in the Debian world as well?" Years ago, I recall a coworker figuring that Linux was probably not the right "free Unix" to use because his perception was that the Linux community consisted of a somewhat undiplomatic group of jerks. Patrick is using FreeBSD these days... From what I could see, there was more than plenty "jerkiness" to go around amongst the various BSD folk. Gentoo seems to have successfully sucked in a sizable population of kids that want to be perceived as "3L33t3." Happily, this draws some "jerks" away from other distributions :-). That's not to say that that's what they are all like. (I know one person who recently joined their mailing list who has plans involve subtle sarcastic ridicule. It would doubtless be considered a Big Win if he turns out to be the catalyst of some large conflagration that gets him booted off the list :-).) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 12:21:14 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 08:21:14 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> <200506081845.56783.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <42A8343A.2000508@sympatico.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > > From what I could see, there > was more than plenty "jerkiness" to go around amongst the various BSD > folk. Ever been to a Unix Unanimous meeting? It had all the rationality of comp.sys.amiga.advocacy of old. Just don't mention the L.... word to big dave. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 14:29:35 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:29:35 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506091643.52096.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <200506091643.52096.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200506091029.36154.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 9, 2005 04:43, JM wrote: > im planning to run Redhat 9 on this box... do i have to upgrade gcc for > this matter? > > and glibc? Do you realize that RH 9 is no longer supported by RH? I suggest you pick something more up to date (no pun intended). If you have your heart set on Red Hat, CentOS might be a good alternative. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 15:35:14 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:35:14 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box Message-ID: Hello Clifford, I run 2 x86-64 (AMD300+) servers (at home and also at a small business), and I honestly have zero complaints about it. In fact, I also use gentoo linux! The general concensus for Gentoo, it seems, is quite negative. I feel that if used properly it can be quite useful and time-saving. One word of warning however - the amd-64 is a great chip, but is not useful if you rely on commercial binary packages, such as macromedia flash. After some customization, most of these hurdles can be overcome. ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 17:12:39 2005 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: This month's NewTLUG meeting (june'05) Message-ID: Two things: 1) We will not be able to hold this month's meeting at IBM on the usual date (would have been the 28th) ...we can either cancel our meeting for this month :-( ...or we can re-schedule it for the 21st. (one week earlier or approx 2 weeks from now) ...for those who would like a meeting this month, please reply and indicate if the earlier date is OK with you. 2) Assuming we do want a meeting on the 21st, we do need a speaker/presenter ...If you have a talk, topic or review you are willing to give PLEASE contact me. ...your talk could be the whole meeting, or we could put together a number of talks of 1/2 meeting length and/or a few mini talks/topics of 10-20 minutes. -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 17:31:52 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:31:52 -0400 Subject: One of better spam Message-ID: <20050609173152.GA2063@node1.opengeometry.net> Folks, here is one spam which got through my filter, just now. I must say, it's one of the better crafted spam I've seen. :-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Hello, My boyfriend began having problems with erections (he's older) and I suggested he look into VlAGRRA Softtabs. Boy, am I glad he did! The first time he tried it, one 50 mg piIl did nothing so he took another and that was a mistake. Three hours later he was still rock hard and had come multiple times (so had I)!! Since then a single 50 mg dose does iThe first of these was that he should have been brought to trial att very well--he's now good for almost 2 hours of good hard sex that leaves both of us worn out. - Bobbie, 21 female USA Try it with PharmacyByMail Shop. http://dusked.biz/cs/?aa Rockky ----------------------------------------------------------- -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 17:51:33 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:51:33 +0300 (IDT) Subject: One of better spam In-Reply-To: <20050609173152.GA2063-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609173152.GA2063@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > Folks, here is one spam which got through my filter, just now. I must > say, it's one of the better crafted spam I've seen. :-) Folks, this is indeed a very well crafted spam since it not only got through your filter, but you spread it too, and then it got through *my* filter, which is amazing. So, in the beginning there was honest spam favoring a product, then people stopped reading that, then there was dishonest spam crafted to go through spam filters, and people found ways around that too. And now, it has gone full circle and there is honest spam again. How *inventive*. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 18:18:41 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:18:41 -0400 Subject: This month's NewTLUG meeting (june'05) Message-ID: Why don't we have picnic somewhere outside IBM? Just joking. But BBQ is really a good way of social. -----Original Message----- From: Herb Richter [mailto:hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 9, 2005 1:13 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: This month's NewTLUG meeting (june'05) Two things: 1) We will not be able to hold this month's meeting at IBM on the usual date (would have been the 28th) ...we can either cancel our meeting for this month :-( ...or we can re-schedule it for the 21st. (one week earlier or approx 2 weeks from now) ...for those who would like a meeting this month, please reply and indicate if the earlier date is OK with you. 2) Assuming we do want a meeting on the 21st, we do need a speaker/presenter ...If you have a talk, topic or review you are willing to give PLEASE contact me. ...your talk could be the whole meeting, or we could put together a number of talks of 1/2 meeting length and/or a few mini talks/topics of 10-20 minutes. -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:42a878a1187052090612068! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 18:42:24 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:42:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them Message-ID: Quoting Slashdot: "The command line interface to the Windows Server OS will be changed to the new Monad Shell (MSH), in a phased implementation to take place over the next three to five years. 'It will exceed what has been delivered in Linux and Unix for many years', so says Bob Muglia, a Senior VP at Microsoft." More from the Tom's Hardware article: "The language in Muglia's comment offers the first clear indication that WMI may be yet one more component being left behind, as Microsoft moves away from portions of Windows architecture that have historically been vulnerable to malicious attack." This means that: a) they concede that their current shell is not so good b) their yardstick is the unix and linux shell (20 years old and still evolving) c) they will emulate it, and hope to better it in 3-5 years (assuming it will stand still ?) d) they are doing this after having turned their backs to it in NT days, i.e. for the last ~7 years or so Conclusion: At present, and for the foreseable following three to five years, the unix and linux shells are recognised as being superior to the windows shell by m$. They will (emphasis on will, as in distant future), catch up with it in 3 to 5 years. You know what, I like compliments ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 19:07:55 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:07:55 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis an d prepares to emulate them Message-ID: Shall we bill m4 if its shell resembles *nix shell? -----Original Message----- From: Peter [mailto:plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 9, 2005 2:42 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: re: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them Quoting Slashdot: "The command line interface to the Windows Server OS will be changed to the new Monad Shell (MSH), in a phased implementation to take place over the next three to five years. 'It will exceed what has been delivered in Linux and Unix for many years', so says Bob Muglia, a Senior VP at Microsoft." More from the Tom's Hardware article: "The language in Muglia's comment offers the first clear indication that WMI may be yet one more component being left behind, as Microsoft moves away from portions of Windows architecture that have historically been vulnerable to malicious attack." This means that: a) they concede that their current shell is not so good b) their yardstick is the unix and linux shell (20 years old and still evolving) c) they will emulate it, and hope to better it in 3-5 years (assuming it will stand still ?) d) they are doing this after having turned their backs to it in NT days, i.e. for the last ~7 years or so Conclusion: At present, and for the foreseable following three to five years, the unix and linux shells are recognised as being superior to the windows shell by m$. They will (emphasis on will, as in distant future), catch up with it in 3 to 5 years. You know what, I like compliments ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:42a88da4194191841410696! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 20:29:08 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:29:08 +0300 (IDT) Subject: so the dmca won in Canada ?! Message-ID: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/home.php#418 Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 20:47:56 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:47:56 +0300 (IDT) Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis an d prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Phillip Qin wrote: > Shall we bill m4 if its shell resembles *nix shell? No, but an attempt at forcing windows into GPL on grounds of 'look and feel' copying should be considered imho ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 21:50:55 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:50:55 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/9/05, Peter wrote: > > Quoting Slashdot: > > "The command line interface to the Windows Server OS will be changed to > the new Monad Shell (MSH), in a phased implementation to take place over > the next three to five years. 'It will exceed what has been delivered in > Linux and Unix for many years', so says Bob Muglia, a Senior VP at > Microsoft." More from the Tom's Hardware article: "The language in > Muglia's comment offers the first clear indication that WMI may be yet > one more component being left behind, as Microsoft moves away from > portions of Windows architecture that have historically been vulnerable > to malicious attack." > > This means that: > > a) they concede that their current shell is not so good That is an obvious fact, and not all that interesting. After all, what they were traditionally trying to do was to establish that the "Graphical Windows Way" was better, that it should be easier to point and click to do things. If you assume that sort of thing, it represents admission of failure *of the GUI* to be sufficiently convenient to use. That means the concession is a much greater one than you are suggesting... > b) their yardstick is the unix and linux shell (20 years old and still > evolving) > c) they will emulate it, and hope to better it in 3-5 years (assuming it > will stand still ?) > d) they are doing this after having turned their backs to it in NT days, > i.e. for the last ~7 years or so They seem to be doing something that is both more and less. On the "more" side, MSH/Monad will have to have a mechanism for importing library interfaces (presumably from the .NET environment). That isn't something that Unix shell scripting systems do. - You don't import an SQL API and then start submitting SQL requests. - You don't import a GTK API and then start writing GTK GUI code. Thus, there is something of a step forward. (Not that it's really new; it's the sort of thing they used to do in Multics, back in the days before Unix existed...) On the other hand, it's not evident that they are looking at all to the sorts of "neat globbing" that zsh has initiated. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 22:48:34 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:48:34 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C Message-ID: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. Suppose I have char *x; int func () { x = "something"; return (1); } where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 23:14:39 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > x = "something"; > return (1); > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? Yes. This isn't about *scope*, which is where things are visible, but about storage duration, which is how long things live. String constants have static storage duration -- they last the lifetime of the program. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 23:36:36 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 09 Jun 2005 19:36:36 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Henry Spencer writes: > On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > > x = "something"; > > return (1); > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? > > Yes. This isn't about *scope*, which is where things are visible, but > about storage duration, which is how long things live. String constants > have static storage duration -- they last the lifetime of the program. Along the scope lines, though, if you want to access x from another file, you need to define it in that other file (or an include, ...) with extern. If you want to restrict its use to only the file with the function func, you need to declare it static. I just found a reasonable description of this at: http://www.its.strath.ac.uk/courses/c/subsection3_6_3.html#SECTION0006300000000000000 read the global, external and static pages. They're short. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 23:34:50 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: >From a standards point of view: "The standard" (by which I mean ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (google for a pdf) section 6.4.5 "String Literals") says it has "static storage duration". It also says attempting to modify the string results in undefined behaviour. >From an implementation point of view: String literals are stored in the process' ro-data segment, so the data that your pointer will point to is created when the kernel loads the program into memory, and will persist for the life of the process. Also, since the data is in a read-only segment(*), a const-happy programmer would use "const char *x;". (*) I think there's a way to get gcc to put the string (or all strings) into the data segment, allowing you to overwrite it. I have never looked into how to do this, though. JV On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 9 23:43:43 2005 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:43:43 -0600 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050609234507.5DF4A67102@mailhost.edm.trlabs.ca> Actually your code wont work right away - (its been a long time since ive done C but this is what I recall)(im assuming that you havent declared x before the main function and declared it glob. x = (char *)malloc(sizeof(char)*80) Is necessary at some place if you want the string to be 80 chars long (remember the \0). Alternatively you can calloc or realloc when necessary. If you malloc this part in the main function then you can use what you have below. To be able to say x="dsadasd" in func() you need to pass func(x) where the prototype is int func(char* x); If you only declare char *x in the main (or for that matter outside main) and malloc in func(x) keep in mind that when you exit from func(x) that memory is destroyed but the pointer stays alive - in C you must specifically free(x); in C++ you must delete() if you created with new(). Use Java and you don't have to muck around with this at all. If you declare and malloc x in func() then you can do whatever you want with x inside func, but the moment you exit, the memory and the pointer associated with that space is destroyed (or zombied - depending on your OS). (mind you the data itself may not be destroyed and anyone can technically retrieve it - but that is microsoft's forte :-) ) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of William Park Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:49 PM To: TLUG-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Scoping question in C I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. Suppose I have char *x; int func () { x = "something"; return (1); } where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 00:36:16 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:36:16 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > You can test this out yourself with this code, defining a main() and printf'ing the result. On Cygwin, I get nothing (2 carriage returns). > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' > after func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string Well, you can *use* x, but I don't think it will have that value. But on my GCC compiler, I gave x an old value, which got clobbered and replaced with an empty string. > "something"? > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > __________ NOD32 1.1135 (20050609) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 02:40:28 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:40:28 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506081440.23958.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: > hi, > > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to > recompile my kernel for this? Answer is "No". Speaking from i386 vs. i686 experience, I barely noticed the difference. Screen updates were faster, but not by that much. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 02:46:59 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:46:59 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> Message-ID: <20050610024659.GB1487@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 08:36:16PM -0400, pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > > Suppose I have > > > > char *x; > > > > int func () > > { > > x = "something"; > > return (1); > > } > > > > You can test this out yourself with this code, defining a main() and > printf'ing the result. On Cygwin, I get nothing (2 carriage returns). I did try it, and got what Henry and others said. But, I just wanted to make sure that data access is legal. Because, sometimes, I could access data pointed to by a dangling pointer for a while, before I get segfault. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 02:49:04 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> References: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > You can test this out yourself with this code, defining a main() and > printf'ing the result. On Cygwin, I get nothing (2 carriage returns). Show us your code, please -- all of it. The construct being asked about is legitimate standard C and *will* work on any conforming implementation. I speak as someone who participated in developing both versions (C89 and C99) of the C standard, and a member of the Standards Council of Canada working group that sorts out how Canada should vote at ISO on new C-standards issues. Not only will it work on any conforming implementation, it'll even work on GCC. :-) I tried it; it works. What I wrote was: #include char *x; int func() { x = "something"; return (1); } main() { func(); printf("%s\n", x); exit(0); } It prints "something" in all of the C implementations I've got handy. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 02:50:35 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050610024659.GB1487-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050610024659.GB1487@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > I did try it, and got what Henry and others said. But, I just wanted to > make sure that data access is legal. Because, sometimes, I could access > data pointed to by a dangling pointer for a while, before I get > segfault. Yep, that does sometimes happen. But this isn't such a case; this one's fully legitimate, not just something that works by accident. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 03:13:26 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:13:26 -0400 Subject: ugly web sites... In-Reply-To: <20050610024028.GA1487-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A90556.3050504@istop.com> My wife left me, just a very short time ago. A pain, isnt it? It is. I am not an angel, just a largely confused. I went to this web site: http://www.okcupid.com/ Try to use it. You will need to register first. After you register, you will have an option to fill in their database ;) I guess that what they are doing is illegal. Simply, they fool people. But in a very, very fine way. That all this is anti-christian or anti-normal, or anti-heterosexual people does not count so much. They simmply fool people. That sort of collecting information and fooling people they are doing is not fair. This is not really Linux related. I am sending this message to this list because I know that Linux users are sensitive also about how the Internet is used. zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 03:20:54 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:20:54 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050610024028.GA1487-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 22:40, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: > > hi, > > > > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to > > recompile my kernel for this? > > Answer is "No". Speaking from i386 vs. i686 experience, I barely > noticed the difference. Screen updates were faster, but not by that > much. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but you'd probably get a bigger performance boost by using a SMP kernel rather than recompiling a non-SMP kernel for AMD. SMP (Symmetric Multiprocessing) will take advantage of hyperthreaded processors and you should always install an SMP kernel on a modern computer. On Fedora, for example, there's not SMP kernel option in the installer but there is a SMP kernel included on the CDs for you to install manually. Ken Burtch -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 03:48:47 2005 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:48:47 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis an d prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506092348.47969.glayng@sympatico.ca> We could always charge them $799 per user... :P On June 9, 2005 16:47, Peter wrote: > On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Phillip Qin wrote: > > Shall we bill m4 if its shell resembles *nix shell? > > No, but an attempt at forcing windows into GPL on grounds of 'look and > feel' copying should be considered imho ;-) > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 05:55:35 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:55:35 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? Yes, the literal string is allocated as static initialised data by the compiler at compile time. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 05:58:26 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:58:26 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <42A74D3A.8010207-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050610055826.GA11293@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 03:55:38PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote > - - If you want rice, gentoo all the way. Comes with excellent > documentation on how to bolt a 3 foot wing on your Dad's old P3. [...deletia...] > While it is theoretically possible to achieve better performance by > compiling your own binaries, the amount of skill require to actually do > so is substantial. Unless you're a professional systems / tools guru, > you don't have the skill to build better binaries than the package > maintainers for the major distros. Portage doesn't solve this problem. > If anything, it aggravates it by giving people the impression that they > have capabilities which they are actually lacking. Gentoo kiddies, don't > seem capable of understanding this. That may be true of a few cloobies, but it's an unsubstantiated smear against the rest of us Gentoo users. There are some people who are congenitally incapable of following simple instructions. In the Windows world, they run "My_Naked_Wife_Playing_Tennis_With_Bill_Clinton.scr" each time they get it in the email, regardless of how many times they get told over and over *NOT* to do it. They should never admin anything more complex than an Etch-a-Sketch. In the past, difficult linux installs screened out the cloobies who couldn't follow simple, let alone complex, instructions. They were the ones whining that they couldn't get linux installed. Now with "user-friendly installs", anybody with half a brain can install linux, and they often do. Put linux in the hands of a cloobie, and you've got trouble waiting to happen. Gentoo offers the user more control. For competent users, it offers more power. For the cloobies, it amounts to more rope to hang themselves with. > Furthermore, for the vast majority of systems, the performance > difference between perfectly optimized binaries and generic debian > compiles will be un-noticable. You obviously haven't run Debian and Gentoo on the same box. I've got a 1999 Dell, 450 mhz PIII, 128 megs of ram, which refuses to die (they don't make them like that any more). I used to run Debian stable on it, until the fall of 2003. At that point, the latest versions of Firefox and Realplayer refused to install, due to extremely old gtk (and other) libs on Debian. I switched to CRUX unix, which gets updates more often. It also assumes i686 instead of i386. I wanted more optimization, and Gentoo was the answer. Commonsense disclaimer... cpu tweaks are *NOT* going to speed up a program that pounds away on the hard drive. Xboing is an old game that is currently sitting at Techrescue. It's not being improved. Today's Xboing tarball is basically the same as 2003's tarball used to build the Debian package (author's latest comments are dated before I bought my Dell in 1999). Under Debian, I could easily play it with "-speed 1" or 2 or even as high as 3 (out of 9). The first time I tried it under Gentoo at "-speed 1", I couldn't touch the balls because they zoomed by too fast. I had to follow instructions on the Gentoo forum to tweak 1 line in the Xboing source code to massively increase the delay loop. Now I can play Xboing again. This is *THE SAME MACHINE* folks. > However, I'm willing to bet large amounts of cash that a gentoo binary > compiled by some amature "for performance" will never be more stable > than the debian binary compiled by the package maintainer. Non-trivial > binaries require even more skill and experience to build well. The > idea of using a libc compiled by someone with less experience than the > most Junior sysadmin is somewhat disturbing. But then I actually > expect my computer to work. This is another thing that just seems > beyond the grasp of your average Gentoo kiddy. Properly setting up CFLAGS and USE is an RTFM-and-fill-in-the-blanks excercise. Unfortunately, some people cannot seem to comprehend simple instructions... like *DO NOT* use "-O3" (or higher?!?!) and *DO NOT* increase the MAKEOPTS -j setting beyond recommended limits. On my Dell, my "3 foot wing" consists of... CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" plus including "mmx" and "sse" in the USE variable. And my system is very stable, thank you. On the other hand, there are some users who *INSIST* on "-O9" and/or "MAKEOPTS=-j16" (for a *SINGLE-CORE SINGLE-CPU* machine). When they come whining about "instability", the flaming they get on the *GENTOO* forums is far worse than your comments here. It comes from upset Gentoo users who don't appreciate being associated with these idiots in the mind of the linux community. > Consider the growing trend for opensource developers to refuse to > accept bug reports from Gentoo users. It's got nothing to do with > prejudice. They simply don't want to waste their time dealing with > spurious bug reports. I've got news for you; *GENTOO PACKAGE MAINTAINERS* refuse to take bug reports from "Gentoo ricers". -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 06:10:56 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:10:56 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050610061056.GB11293@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:36:29PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote > And if you want to make sure that your CPU will be busy compiling > things from now on, I believe that Gentoo has an AMD64 release. From what I've seen on the Gentoo list so far, AMD64 is one of the more unstable ports of Gentoo. Another problem is that many, if not most, AMD64 systems seem to ship with nVidia motherboards. nVidia refuses to release its specs and insists on you using their proprietary drivers. When you build a new kernel, you have to include the nVidia binary modules... otherwise the built-in graphics, built-in sound, and built-in NIC stop functioning. And there are some instances where you simply *CANNOT* get the binary drivers to run on newer kernels. Sure, you can go out and buy a separate video card, a separate audio card, and a separate NIC. And you end up with an AMD system that costs more than a comparable Intel system. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 10:58:38 2005 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:58:38 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050610055826.GA11293-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>; from waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:58:26 -0400 References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> <20050610055826.GA11293@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050610105838.GC1978@localhost> On Fri Jun 10,2005 01:58:26 AM Walter Dnes wrote: > Unfortunately, some people cannot seem to comprehend simple > instructions... like *DO NOT* use "-O3" (or higher?!?!) [...] Actually, I've got a not-too-critical AMD based system running Gentoo, which has been set for -O3 since its stage 1 inception (the rest of the settings are pretty sane, though). I haven't noticed any problems with it. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 13:18:19 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:18:19 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050609224834.GA22272-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050610131431.13E981BB049@outbox.allstream.net> In C scope is (in its most useful part anyway) connected to the source file in which you are defining your global variable. For example if in source file bob.c you put int a; int func1() { } int func2() { } Then "a" will be accessable as a global variable by both func1 and func2. This variable "a" will be allocated on the heap and will persist for the entire duration of your program. ie. the value will "stick" after func1() exits. If your application has another C source file called gloria.c as: int main() { exit(0); } then "a" will not be available inside main unless you explicitly use the extern modifier as in: extern int a; in the area above main(). Note: normally you'd reverse this allocation scheme and have the explicit delaration in gloria.c (which contains main) and the extern declaration in bob.c (which contains some utility functions). If you wish to restrict the scope of "a" to only the file bob.c you simply declare it as: static int a; and the other files can't use "extern" to manipulate it. Hope this helps. bob PS. If anyone wants more info about this kind of thing, feel free to consult the lesson#3 of the latest iCanProgram course at: http://www.icanprogram.com/33ux/main.html On June 9, 2005 06:48 pm, you wrote: > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 13:16:40 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:16:40 -0400 Subject: ugly web sites... In-Reply-To: <42A90556.3050504-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A90556.3050504@istop.com> Message-ID: <42A992B8.70309@geek-girls.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > My wife left me, just a very short time ago. A pain, isnt it? It is. I > am not an angel, just a largely confused. I went to this web site: > > http://www.okcupid.com/ > > Try to use it. You will need to register first. After you register, > you will have an option to fill in their database ;) > > I guess that what they are doing is illegal. Simply, they fool people. > But in a very, very fine way. That all this is anti-christian or > anti-normal, or anti-heterosexual people does not count so much. They > simmply fool people. That sort of collecting information and fooling > people they are doing is not fair. > > This is not really Linux related. I am sending this message to this > list because I know that Linux users are sensitive also about how the > Internet is used. > > zb. People might be more interested in knowing that OKCupid runs off the open source OK Web Server: http://okws.org/ There are a gazillion sites out there which collect personal information about people. How many of them describe in such exacting detail how it is used as can be found at this link: http://okcupid.com/static?p=faaaq They describe the algorithm used to "match" people based on their answers to the 2000 or so user-submitted questions on the site. Of course, their privacy policy is available too: http://okcupid.com/static?p=privacy But I think the most amusing part is that in your personal settings you have the options (as checkboxes, defaulting to unchecked): Can we send any of the following to your primary e-mail address? monthly -- OkCupid's Newsletter weekly -- Matches in your inbox weekly -- Pure math/stats/logs about our growth whenever -- Notification if you have new mail, if you haven't logged in in 24 hours constantly -- SPAM What am I getting at here? Simply: It's a dating site. It's better than most and even runs on open source software. Get over it :-) -Leigh (who got dragged onto OKCupid for the silly personality tests) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 13:54:57 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Jun 2005 09:54:57 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: John Vetterli writes: > (*) I think there's a way to get gcc to put the string (or all strings) into > the data segment, allowing you to overwrite it. I have never looked into how > to do this, though. Nor should you ;) I think that you're looking for this: -fwritable-strings Store string constants in the writable data segment and don't uniquize them. This is for compatibility with old programs which assume they can write into string constants. Writing into string constants is a very bad idea; ''constants'' should be constant. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 14:53:23 2005 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:53:23 -0400 Subject: This month's NewTLUG meeting (june'05) References: Message-ID: <42A9A963.A3D46A8@rogers.com> Herb Richter wrote: > 2) Assuming we do want a meeting on the 21st, we do need a > speaker/presenter > ...If you have a talk, topic or review you are willing to give PLEASE > contact me. > ...your talk could be the whole meeting, or we could put together a number > of talks of 1/2 meeting length and/or a few mini talks/topics of 10-20 > minutes. I could do a presentation on the Seaside web application framework -- see: www.seaside.st. I can run through one of the tutorials that gives a pretty good feel for how app's are built, and I can show some data access to PostgreSQL. --yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 14:47:37 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:47:37 -0400 Subject: so the dmca won in Canada ?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/9/05, Peter wrote: > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/home.php#418 It's not won yet. Remember that summer vacation is coming up! When it's over and there's two months of real work piled up they may just forget about it. However, I think that all GTALUG members should send some snail mail to their MP and tell them why this new legislation is a bad idea. I wrote my MP when the CRIA staged a "protest" outside parliament a few months ago, and I was surprised to learn that he has a fairly progressive attitude towards copyrights. Do it! And make sure that there's another letter waiting for them when they get back. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 15:04:59 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:04:59 -0400 Subject: ugly web sites... In-Reply-To: <42A90556.3050504-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A90556.3050504@istop.com> Message-ID: On 6/9/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I guess that what they are doing is illegal. Simply, they fool people. > But in a very, very fine way. That all this is anti-christian or > anti-normal, or anti-heterosexual people does not count so much. >From http://www.okcupid.com/static?p=privacy: Humor rainbow, inc. encourages all users to maintain a psuedonymous identity when using the matching service or any other public aspects of the okcupid website. Upon further examination, I find very little of the hate literature that you refer to. Hey, wait! The site used to run on FreeBSD! http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.okcupid.com Netcraft confirms it! This site is evil, folks! The devil logo, the gay matchmaking... it's all coming together. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 15:13:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:13:10 -0400 Subject: ugly web sites... In-Reply-To: <42A90556.3050504-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A90556.3050504@istop.com> Message-ID: <42A9AE06.4090101@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > My wife left me, just a very short time ago. A pain, isnt it? It is. I > am not an angel, just a largely confused. I went to this web site: > > http://www.okcupid.com/ > > Try to use it. You will need to register first. After you register, you > will have an option to fill in their database ;) > > I guess that what they are doing is illegal. Simply, they fool people. > But in a very, very fine way. That all this is anti-christian or > anti-normal, or anti-heterosexual people does not count so much. They > simmply fool people. That sort of collecting information and fooling > people they are doing is not fair. Well, they can't be all bad, if they're "anti christian". There are too many bible thumpers in the world as it is. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 15:17:33 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:17:33 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050610024659.GB1487-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> <20050610024659.GB1487@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A9AF0D.4040602@interlog.com> William Park wrote: >I did try it, and got what Henry and others said. But, I just wanted to >make sure that data access is legal. Because, sometimes, I could access >data pointed to by a dangling pointer for a while, before I get >segfault. > > You will be in serious danger of getting a seg fault if 'char *x' was only declared inside func() and returned the pointer and you then tried to use this pointer outside of func(). You will also have problems when you continue to use pointers to memory that was allocated via (m)alloc() after it has been freed. These situations don't apply in your example since the variable x was declared outside of any function. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 17:00:34 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:00:34 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <1118373653.1866.5.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <42A9C732.8010502@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ken O. Burtch wrote: > On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 22:40, William Park wrote: > >>On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: >> >>>hi, >>> >>> we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to >>> recompile my kernel for this? >> >>Answer is "No". Speaking from i386 vs. i686 experience, I barely >>noticed the difference. Screen updates were faster, but not by that >>much. > > I don't know if this has been mentioned, but you'd probably get a bigger > performance boost by using a SMP kernel rather than recompiling a > non-SMP kernel for AMD. You are aware that SMP is simply a kernel configuration option, right? Usually, to get performance you turn off SMP on single processor boxes. It reduces some of the kernel's overhead. > SMP (Symmetric Multiprocessing) will take > advantage of hyperthreaded processors and you should always install an > SMP kernel on a modern computer. AMD chips don't have hyperthreading. It's an Intel only thing. The advantage, if any, is debatable. AMD does support dual core chips (two CPUs on the same chip), and unlike the Intel's dual core chips, they don't suck. But they're kinda pricy. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCqccygfzn5SevSpoRAl19AKDBL1ElDHOWvF0Zv1uIjcJ60oaVKQCgg4Yu lwV5IYnaT+MnXZPuLg7yC+o= =Xx+u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 17:06:16 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:06:16 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42A9AF0D.4040602-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> <20050610024659.GB1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A9AF0D.4040602@interlog.com> Message-ID: <20050610170616.GA2127@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:17:33AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > William Park wrote: > > >I did try it, and got what Henry and others said. But, I just wanted > >to make sure that data access is legal. Because, sometimes, I could > >access data pointed to by a dangling pointer for a while, before I > >get segfault. > > You will be in serious danger of getting a seg fault if 'char *x' was > only declared inside func() and returned the pointer and you then > tried to use this pointer outside of func(). But, if the static string lives for the duration of the program, then pointer to it should always be valid, no? Eg. char *func2() { char *y; y = "something inside"; return (y); } Here, 'y' (or, what the function returns) should be valid for entire program. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 17:34:34 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050610170616.GA2127-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050610170616.GA2127@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, William Park wrote: > But, if the static string lives for the duration of the program, then > pointer to it should always be valid, no? Eg. > char *y; > y = "something inside"; > return (y); > Here, 'y' (or, what the function returns) should be valid for entire > program. Correct. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 18:58:24 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:58:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> But, if the static string lives for the duration of the program, then >> pointer to it should always be valid, no? Eg. >> char *y; >> y = "something inside"; >> return (y); >> Here, 'y' (or, what the function returns) should be valid for entire >> program. The point is that it returns the *value* of y and not y proper. The value of y is the address of the static string so it works. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 20:54:16 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:54:16 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050610170616.GA2127-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> <20050610024659.GB1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <42A9AF0D.4040602@interlog.com> <20050610170616.GA2127@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42A9FDF8.8080805@interlog.com> William Park wrote: >But, if the static string lives for the duration of the program, then >pointer to it should always be valid, no? Eg. > > char *func2() > { > char *y; > > y = "something inside"; > return (y); > } > >Here, 'y' (or, what the function returns) should be valid for entire >program. > > In func2, y is allocated on the stack and only exists while executing the code of func2. After the return, the variable y "disappears" as the stack space used by the function is released. The value returned by func2 remains valid since the value assigned to y was that of an object with a fixed address. Be very careful in doing what you show in the above example. If you don't pay close attention to whether the address pointed to by y still exists after the function returns you can easily find yourself starting at a seg fault message when running your program. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 21:28:49 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:28:49 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050610105838.GC1978@localhost> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <1118241144.3968.103.camel@holden.weait.net> <42A71421.90201@sympatico.ca> <42A71CB3.2020501@ca.afilias.info> <42A71F4B.3010904@sympatico.ca> <42A74D3A.8010207@ca.afilias.info> <20050610055826.GA11293@waltdnes.org> <20050610105838.GC1978@localhost> Message-ID: <20050610212849.GD9133@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 06:58:38AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote > On Fri Jun 10,2005 01:58:26 AM Walter Dnes wrote: > >Unfortunately, some people cannot seem to comprehend simple > >instructions... like *DO NOT* use "-O3" (or higher?!?!) > [...] > > Actually, I've got a not-too-critical AMD based system running > Gentoo, which has been set for -O3 since its stage 1 inception (the > rest of the settings are pretty sane, though). I haven't noticed any > problems with it. You may be lucky, but as I said, even the Gentoo bug board gives a cool reception to anything higher than the recommended "-O2". I am *NOT* a programmer, but I've been doing custom builds for a while. It goes back to the days of Mozilla 0.95 (Firefox didn't even exist back then). I liked Mozilla 0.95, but it was excruciatingly slow on my 1999 Dell (450mhz PIII with 128 megs of ram) to the point of almost unusable. I was so desparate for improvement that I stuck my feet into the custom-build water (I didn't want to buy a brand new machine just for Mozilla). I downloaded and custom-built from tarballs, rather than downloading "milestone release binaries". For a non-programmer, it was a steep learning curve, but I persevered. I found out "the hard way", that -O3 Mozilla builds were flakey to the max, even if they didn't seg-fault at startup. -O2 builds were much more stable. I also used the -march option, etc. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 11 00:11:22 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:11:22 -0400 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <20050610024028.GA1487-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 10:40:28PM -0400, William Park wrote > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: > > hi, > > > > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to > > recompile my kernel for this? > > Answer is "No". Speaking from i386 vs. i686 experience, I barely > noticed the difference. Screen updates were faster, but not by that > much. A 64-bit cpu running in 32-bit compatability mode makes as much sense as buying a Mac, and using an emulator to run nothing but Windows apps. Save yourself some money, and buy the real thing. If you can compile most or all of your apps to run in 64-bit mode, then you can expect genuine improvement in cpu-constrained apps. Any compile-from-source distro (Gentoo, LFS, Slack, etc) should benefit. See the article at http://www.devx.com/amd/Article/16018 for details. To summarize... - general-purpose registers (GPRs) increased from 8 in x86-32 to 16 and, of course, their size is now 64 bits - 128-bit XMM registers (used for Streaming SIMD instructions) increased from 8 to 16. One big complaint about X86/32bit cpus has been the limited number of registers. The extra registers on the AMD64 reduce the need for memory accesses, and a compiler that knows about them can speed up calculations significantly. Now let's talk about 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box (which is why I changed the thread subject). The AMD64 has 32-bit compatability in 64-bit userland. Is anybody running in 64-bit mode and have binary-only stuff like Macromedia/Adobe's Schlockwave-Trash, Sun's Java, and OpenOffice (depends on Sun's Java) working in 64-bit userland? What about parts of *KERNEL MODE* code being 32-bits in a 64-bit environment? I'm talking about nVidia's proprietary video-card drivers. And let's not forget nVidia's mother boards, which are often the base for AMD64 cpus. Anybody got the motherboard's built-in video/sound/nic working whilst running the cpu in 64-bit mode? -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 20:46:13 2005 From: jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jian (James) Zhou) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:46:13 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Just to add a few more comments. Constants is a special case. A constant means it is read-only, and it usually resides in text segment. Thus, if you assign a constant string to the pointer "x" inside the function, I don't think there will be any problem to access it even after the function is returned. However, I do not think this is a good practice since originally there is no information saying the pointer "x" is pointing to a constant string. Therefore, a later programmer might have troubles to maintain or read this code because he may not know that the string can not be modified. James Zhou ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Park" To: Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: [TLUG]: Scoping question in C > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 10 20:24:57 2005 From: jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jian (James) Zhou) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:24:57 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C References: <20050609224834.GA22272@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: That depends how "something" is allocated from memory. Since "x" is declared outside of the function body, "x" is a global variable which can be accessed by all functions ("static" only affects the scope of visibility in this case, and it won't change the fact that "x" is a global variable living in data section). Here within the function, if the memory that holds the string is a local variable (i.e. it lives in stack), the memory will not be available after the function is returned. Thus, the pointer "x" is pointing to an invalid address. However, if the memory that holds the string is dynamically allocated within the function, and it is not "freed". Then, the "x" is pointing a valid memory space. In this case, you can still use "x" to access the string even after the function returns. James Zhou ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Park" To: Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: [TLUG]: Scoping question in C > I have question regarding scope of static string inside C function. > Suppose I have > > char *x; > > int func () > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > where 'x' is global variable being used elsewhere. Can I use 'x' after > func() exits? That is, is 'x' still pointing to string "something"? > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 11 04:59:01 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:59:01 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> What exactly will it acomplish that Cygwin can't do today? (Longhorn ain't done till Cygwin won't run?). At work, Windows XP is the official OS. I do quite a bit of work with large textfiles of scientific data, but not enough to justify a *nix workstation of my own. cut/sed/grep etc, etc, are very handy. At one point, I was ftp'ing data to a unix server, working on the files under unix, and ftp'ing the results back to my Windows machine. Now I just switch over to a Cygwin window, and pretend that I'm at home on this here linux box. And Cygwin's bash and other utilities are much more familiar to me than HP-UX's versions. One serendipitous side-effect of a full Cygwin install is that it includes X, so Exceed for Windows becomes unnecessary. This discovery caused some excitement for another office in our building, which needed half-a-dozen people running X apps from their Windows PCs. They found only one significant difference between's Exceed's X and Cywin's X... namely $900 per seat. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 11 16:14:51 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:14:51 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: <20050611045901.GF9133-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 11, 2005 00:59, Walter Dnes wrote: > What exactly will it acomplish that Cygwin can't do today? (Longhorn > ain't done till Cygwin won't run?). At work, Windows XP is the official > OS. I do quite a bit of work with large textfiles of scientific data, > but not enough to justify a *nix workstation of my own. cut/sed/grep > etc, etc, are very handy. At one point, I was ftp'ing data to a unix > server, working on the files under unix, and ftp'ing the results back to > my Windows machine. Now I just switch over to a Cygwin window, and > pretend that I'm at home on this here linux box. And Cygwin's bash and > other utilities are much more familiar to me than HP-UX's versions. Have you ever tried coLinux ? It looks somewhat interesting. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 11 16:19:28 2005 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:19:28 -0400 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <20050611001122.GE9133-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <42AB0F10.5000304@alteeve.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > > Now let's talk about 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box (which is why I > changed the thread subject). The AMD64 has 32-bit compatability in > 64-bit userland. Is anybody running in 64-bit mode and have binary-only > stuff like Macromedia/Adobe's Schlockwave-Trash, Sun's Java, and > OpenOffice (depends on Sun's Java) working in 64-bit userland? > I have installed 32 bit userland apps and the run just like normal. Haven't installed any of the ones you list though. > What about parts of *KERNEL MODE* code being 32-bits in a 64-bit > environment? I'm talking about nVidia's proprietary video-card drivers. You Do know that Nvidia has had 64 bit drivers out month before the first FC2-64 distro was available... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 04:11:06 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 00:11:06 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. Message-ID: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> [sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with astonishment] OPEN !!! whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! (and they said it would never happen) 1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! 326 Harbord (no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the numbers are clear) http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.014080&hl=en 416-534-2116 Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm Friday 7am to 11pm Saturday 10 am to 11pm and Sunday 10am till 5pm The espresso's hot and the air conditioning's cool c'mon down ! The adventure has only begun and there's still a lot of work to do; website wifi enhancement user management pixleboard control graphics design and more ! For many of the folks wandering through the door, this will be the first time they have seen (or heard of) linux. It's important (for me, anyway) that it's a good first impression. I'm counting on YOU (the linux community) join in the fun and to help me get this thing firing on all cylinders. Thanks to everyone who has contributed time and/or hardware (Robert Brockway, Austin, Alain Maisoneuve, James Walker, Bill Tannis, Iain Calder, Emma Jane Hogbin, Paul DiRezze, Simon P Ditner, Leah Honeywell, if I've forgotten to list you, sorry, I'm sleep deprived) I'm looking forward to meeting many of you list-mates face-to-face, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 13:16:01 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:16:01 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> Message-ID: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> > On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > You can test this out yourself with this code, defining a main() and > > printf'ing the result. On Cygwin, I get nothing (2 carriage > > returns). > > Show us your code, please -- all of it. > The following code segfaults under Cygwin: ---------8<----snip-----------8<-----snip------- #include #indlude char *x; int func () { *x = "something"; return (1); } int main () { func(); printf ("'%s'\n", x); return (EXIT_SUCCESS); } ---------8<----snip-----------8<-----snip------- I had to change "char *x;" to something like "char x[2] for it to do anything. So, this is what I did: #include char x[2]; int func () { *x = "something"; return (1); } int main () { func(); printf ("'%s'\n", x); return (0); } This gave it the output: '' When I compiled your source code with a slight modification: single quotes around the %s as in: printf ("'%s'\n); I got 'something ' Note the \n came *before* the closing quote in the output but not in the printf(). Paul > The construct being asked about is legitimate standard C and *will* > work on any conforming implementation. I speak as someone who > participated in developing both versions (C89 and C99) of the C > standard, and a member of the Standards Council of Canada working > group that sorts out how Canada should vote at ISO on new C-standards > issues. > > Not only will it work on any conforming implementation, it'll even > work on GCC. :-) I tried it; it works. What I wrote was: > > #include > > char *x; > > int > func() > { > x = "something"; > return (1); > } > > main() { > func(); > printf("%s\n", x); > exit(0); > } > > It prints "something" in all of the C implementations I've got handy. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________ NOD32 1.1135 (20050609) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 15:04:53 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:04:53 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> References: <42A8A840.634.13FA2C8C@localhost> <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: <42AC4F15.7000708@interlog.com> pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: >The following code segfaults under Cygwin: >---------8<----snip-----------8<-----snip------- >#include >#indlude > >char *x; > >int func () >{ > *x = "something"; > > The above line should read: x = "something"; x will then be set to the address where the string "something" is stored. Using *x says to place the address where the string "something" is stored in the address pointed to by (ie. currently held in) the variable x. This won't work here since x has not been assigned an address prior to the assignment and not surprisingly it seg faults. > return (1); >} > >int main () { > func(); > printf ("'%s'\n", x); > return (EXIT_SUCCESS); >} > > You have also declared func() as returning an integer but you never use the return value. If you want to ignore the returned value you should use "(void)func();" in main(), or declare func() as "void func()" and lose the return statement. It will still work either way and even how you have shown it above. Adding the void declaration will just save you from an extra warning message or two. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 15:14:19 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:14:19 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42AC4F15.7000708-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: <42AC190B.4625.3D03AAB@localhost> > You have also declared func() as returning an integer but you never > use the return value. If you want to ignore the returned value you > should use "(void)func();" in main(), or declare func() as "void > func()" and lose the return statement. It will still work either way > and even how you have shown it above. Adding the void declaration will > just save you from an extra warning message or two. > In my code, I merely pasted the code snippet from the original poster (WIlliam Park). He defined "func" as int, and never used the returned value either. Anyhoo, it shouldn't affect the output. The original point was regarding "x". Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 15:47:58 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:47:58 -0400 Subject: Latest Open Source website business model... In-Reply-To: <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050612154758.GA12981@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 12:14:51PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > Have you ever tried coLinux ? It looks somewhat > interesting. http://www.colinux.org/ seems to be following the latest Open Source business model... 1) set up website covering linux and/or Open Source 2) accept money from MS to display ads proclaiming Windows' superiority 3) ...profit -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 15:50:59 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:50:59 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050612155059.GB12981@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 12:14:51PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > Have you ever tried coLinux ? It looks somewhat > interesting. This is a federal government workplace and, in our building at least, the IT people don't like unnecessary software on desktps, and I don't blame them. There are the usual security/privacy concerns. I found that Windows98SE was quite stable for me a few years ago. Of course, I didn't have "comet cursors", "toolbars", and a bunch of other crud fighting for control of the IE "home page", like other people did . I can demonstrate a need for Cygwin (productivity increase, blah, blah, blah). The fact that it's owned by Redhat helps in terms of giving IT "the warm fuzzies". (We have quite a few linux servers in the building, with Redhat being the distro of choice). A full-blown linux distro is overkill. And furthermore, I'm being paid to query (SQL and PL/SQL) and analyse climate data, not to administer a linux distro on my desktop. I indulge in my hobby at home, not at work. I assume that my supervisor knows (or can find out) everything I have on my workplace PC, and I act accordingly. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 17:10:32 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42AC190B.4625.3D03AAB@localhost> References: <42AC190B.4625.3D03AAB@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > ...Anyhoo, it shouldn't affect the output. The original > point was regarding "x". Yes, and where he wrote `x = "something";', you wrote `*x = "something";', which is not a small change and is the reason you got different results. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 17:32:29 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > The following code segfaults under Cygwin: > ... > char *x; > int func () > { > *x = "something"; Yep, sure does. But the original poster didn't put that `*' in the assignment. That one small change makes your code completely different from his. He set `x' to point to the literal string. Your version, well, is more complicated. It tries to set the character that `x' points to. There are two problems with this: + `x' has never been assigned a value, so where does it point? In fact, since it's a global variable, it gets implicitly initialized to a zero of the appropriate type, in this case a null pointer. But a null pointer doesn't point anywhere! + The value being assigned to that character should be a character value (that is, a single character). What your code tries to assign is a string, that is, a pointer to an initialized *array* of characters. When I give this code to GCC, it produces a warning message about that. The pointer is being converted to an integer, and the result is being treated as a character for purposes of the assignment. C doesn't do array assignments, e.g. copying whole strings, with `='. For that, you have to call strcpy(). Incidentally, the code as you showed it wouldn't even compile, since you wrote "#indlude" instead of "#include" once. This presumably means you retyped it rather than doing cut-and-paste or reading it from a file into your mail message. That's a bad idea, because typos can make major differences in how a program behaves; when asking about a programming problem, it's very important to show *exactly* the code you tried to run. > When I compiled your source code with a slight modification: single > quotes around the %s... > I got > 'something > ' > Note the \n came *before* the closing quote in the output but not in > the printf(). That's peculiar, but I suspect that another typo might be at fault. I'm not going to try to diagnose this one without seeing the exact code. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 19:59:05 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 15:59:05 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ABB5DA.2060702-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42AC9409.6040605@sympatico.ca> [ crickets ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 20:38:12 2005 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (J. Qiang Li) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ABB5DA.2060702-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050612203812.6103.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> congrats on the opening! any store pictures ? what is the website ? > website > wifi enhancement > user management > pixleboard control > graphics design > and more ! other than coming for drinks, what do those mean to customer or linux geeks? cheers, Qiang --- David J Patrick wrote: > [sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with > astonishment] > > OPEN !!! > > whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! > > (and they said it would never happen) > > 1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending > countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, > making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I > couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! > > So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all > Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free > code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting > live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. > > YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! > 326 Harbord > (no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the > numbers are clear) > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.014080&hl=en > 416-534-2116 > Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm > Friday 7am to 11pm > Saturday 10 am to 11pm > and Sunday 10am till 5pm > > The espresso's hot and the air conditioning's cool > c'mon down ! > > The adventure has only begun and there's still a lot of work to do; > > website > wifi enhancement > user management > pixleboard control > graphics design > and more ! > > For many of the folks wandering through the door, this will be the first > time they have seen (or heard of) linux. It's important (for me, anyway) > that it's a good first impression. I'm counting on YOU (the linux > community) join in the fun and to help me get this thing firing on all > cylinders. > > Thanks to everyone who has contributed time and/or hardware (Robert > Brockway, Austin, Alain Maisoneuve, James Walker, Bill Tannis, Iain > Calder, Emma Jane Hogbin, Paul DiRezze, Simon P Ditner, Leah Honeywell, > if I've forgotten to list you, sorry, I'm sleep deprived) > > I'm looking forward to meeting many of you list-mates face-to-face, > djp > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 20:39:58 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:39:58 -0400 Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) Message-ID: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> As you know, I've been patching Bash shell: http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ One major feature is the adding of regex(3) (by Henry Spencer) into various places in shell expression. Official Bash-3.0 has [[ string =~ regex ]] but that's all. As of BashDiff-1.18, I added a regex feature, which have been in the backburner for long time. Now, Bash + BashDiff has fairly comprehensive regex capability. I would like to announce the latest BashDiff-1.18, and express my appreciation to Henry for writing regex(3). Here is a short list of what I've added, regex-wise: 1. case string in glob) ... ;; regex)) ... ;; --> subgroups in SUBMATCH esac Eg. case abc123 in [a-z]+ )) echo "Found regex" ;; esac 2. ${var|/regex} --> return items containing 'regex' ${var|~regex} --> return items not containing 'regex' Eg. set -- abc 123 xyz 456 echo ${*|/[a-z]} echo ${*|~[a-z]} 3. ${var|-regex} --> split string on 'regex' ${var|+regex} --> extract 'regex' in string Both return a list of matching or non-matching segments. If it's double quoted, then "$@" behaviour is followed; that is, each item is returned as separate argument. This was particularly difficult to implement, and was the last piece to nail down. It was finally added in BashDiff-1.18. Eg. a='abc 123 xyz 456' for i in ${a|-[a-z]+}; do echo ".$i."; done for i in "${a|-[a-z]+}"; do echo ".$i."; done You can see the effect of double quoting. It's like $@ vs. "$@". Now, if you do something like ${*|-regex} or ${array[*]|-regex}, then splitting will be done on each item of the list, and concatenated list of items will be returned. 4. match string regex [submatch] This is builtin command, which you load into Bash shell dynamically using enable -f william.so match The library is installed as /usr/local/lib/libwilliam.so (I ran out of suitable names) :-) Eg. match abc123 '[a-z]+' && echo "Found regex" which is the same as [[ abc123 =~ [a-z]+ ]] && echo "Found regex" Enjoy! -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 21:00:03 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:00:03 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <1118373653.1866.5.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On 6/9/05, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 22:40, William Park wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 02:40:23PM +0800, JM wrote: > > > hi, > > > > > > we will be buying a 64-bit box, i was wondering if i need to > > > recompile my kernel for this? > > > > Answer is "No". Speaking from i386 vs. i686 experience, I barely > > noticed the difference. Screen updates were faster, but not by that > > much. > > I don't know if this has been mentioned, but you'd probably get a bigger > performance boost by using a SMP kernel rather than recompiling a > non-SMP kernel for AMD. SMP (Symmetric Multiprocessing) will take > advantage of hyperthreaded processors and you should always install an > SMP kernel on a modern computer. Exqueeze me? 1. It is highly debatable whether or not hyperthreading provides *any* improvement. The "best" cases are estimated at a 20% improvement, and that assumes that the multiprocessing doesn't lead to cache poisoning that would worsen things. For the most part, the Xeon architectures wind up with memory throttling that outweighs such improvements... 2. AMD has never implemented hyperthreading on their processors. As a result, this isn't a relevant optimization for AMD-based systems. 3. SMP will only be relevant if you actually have more than one AMD CPU on your system. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 21:46:46 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:46:46 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp Message-ID: Hi, This will probably be as easy-peasy question for some of you, but right now the answer is frustratingly beyond my reach. I use OpenVPN to stay in touch with my employer's LAN, through Sympatico's DSL service. I have nameserver statements at the top of my /etc/resolv.conf file to let me use the Company's name servers to get to the company servers that I need to, as well as a search statement for the company domain. Below that are the standard Sympatico name servers. Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's two name servers. When that happens, I have to go back into /etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service working with my employer's LAN again. Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu instead was foo.bar.com. So really my question boils down to: What causes /etc/resolv.conf to be overwritten on a modem or router burp, and how can I hook that to automagically fix it? Thanks much. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 21:47:45 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:47:45 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: <20050612155059.GB12981-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050612155059.GB12981@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200506121747.46966.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 12, 2005 11:50, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 12:14:51PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > > > Have you ever tried coLinux ? It looks somewhat > > interesting. > > This is a federal government workplace and, in our building at least, > the IT people don't like unnecessary software on desktps, and I don't > blame them. There are the usual security/privacy concerns. I found > that Windows98SE was quite stable for me a few years ago. Of course, I > didn't have "comet cursors", "toolbars", and a bunch of other crud > fighting for control of the IE "home page", like other people did . It used to be the case that you could keep your Windows box deloused by not installing such things. That no longer seems to be the case. The biggest growth area of malware is in so called "drive by" malware where all you have to do is to visit an infected web site while using IE. > I can demonstrate a need for Cygwin (productivity increase, blah, > blah, blah). The fact that it's owned by Redhat helps in terms of > giving IT "the warm fuzzies". (We have quite a few linux servers in the > building, with Redhat being the distro of choice). A full-blown linux > distro is overkill. And furthermore, I'm being paid to query (SQL and > PL/SQL) and analyse climate data, not to administer a linux distro on my > desktop. I indulge in my hobby at home, not at work. I assume that my > supervisor knows (or can find out) everything I have on my workplace PC, > and I act accordingly. So who who administers/delouses the Windows box on your desk and reinstalls from scratch when it becomes slow, crash prone, or otherwise unusable? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 21:56:09 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:56:09 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: ; from talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 05:46:46PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050612175609.A5742@diamond.ss.org> > > What causes /etc/resolv.conf to be overwritten on a modem or router > burp, and how can I hook that to automagically fix it? > I'm not sure of the cause, but I suggest at the least set /etc/resov.conf to read only (chmod -wx /etc/resov.conf), so that the problem goes away. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 22:28:01 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:28:01 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <1118614384.32047.7.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1118614384.32047.7.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: On 6/12/05, interlug-list wrote: > On Sun, 2005-06-12 at 17:46, Alex Beamish wrote: > > > Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) > > goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's > > two name servers. > > Probably because dhcp is getting the name server and gateway information > from Sympatico dhcpd when you reconnect after the hiccup. If you > disable dhcp, and preset the name servers then you'll be okay until the > next time sympatico changes the name servers (or the next time the > sympatico name servers go down). That happens a lot, so you probably > want to leave dhcp on. Yes. If Sympatico wants to reset the name servers that I'm using, I don't want to prevent that. My setup is a bit more complicated still -- Sympatico is using DHCP to assign me an address, and that's going to my router, and the router is using DHCP to give all the household workstations addresses .. I'm using 192.168.5.x so that it doesn't interfere with the 192.168.0.x addresses at my employer. > > When that happens, I have to go back into > > /etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service > > working with my employer's LAN again. > > Right. The dhcp client doesn't know that you want to keep nameserver > {atwork} when you pick up the dhcp stuff from sympatico. > > > Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP > > addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you > > wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu instead > > was foo.bar.com. > > #/etc/hosts > # add the next line > 192.168.0.123 foo.bar.co I could do that, but there are a dozen hosts on that list and I'd prefer if I could get the company name servers added back into /etc/resolv.conf instead. Thanks for your feedback, it's very helpful. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 23:24:30 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:24:30 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <20050612203812.6103.qmail-EVxZuBpqR9+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203812.6103.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42ACC42E.8000609@sympatico.ca> J. Qiang Li wrote: >congrats on the opening! > > thankyou, thankyouverymuch ! >any store pictures ? > pictures, yes, online, no :-( > what is the website ? > > linuxcaffe.com The existing tikiwiki site has gone totally stale as I waited on the edge of my chair for my web developer pal to whip up the new site. Five months later, I'm gettin a sore butt from chair-edge-sitting, and the website in not much closer. I now realize that I will have to rethink this website thingy, anyone interested in playing ? >other than coming for drinks, what do those mean to customer or linux geeks? > > Well you'll be enjoying drinks and panini in the company of other geeks, for one thing. The place is an example of a retail location using nothing but open source. We'll have a slew of fresh burned linux distros and single purpose boot CDs on hand. We are developing an all linux internet cafe with thin client thinkpads and WiFi to the park. A number of groups are looking at finding a spot on our schedule to gather and share technologies; GTA-lug executive board, perl-mongers, the ruby users group, the asterisk/ voip group and others. We hope to get in a range of high tech toys for sale (USB keys with fun things on them, WiFi cards and ThinkGeek type silliness) and soon the shelves will be stocked with swag; hats, t-shirts, stickers and pocket protectors festooned with penguins, logos and geeky things on them. but other than that.. nothing really.. would a 20ft tall tux on the wall qualify ? if you think so we'll put one up.. ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 02:08:55 2005 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:08:55 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ABB5DA.2060702-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200506122208.56122.glayng@sympatico.ca> Congratulations - I'll be dropping by late this week On June 12, 2005 00:11, David J Patrick wrote: > [sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with > astonishment] > > OPEN !!! > > whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! > > (and they said it would never happen) > > 1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending > countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, > making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I > couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! > > So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all > Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free > code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting > live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. > > YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! > 326 Harbord > (no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the > numbers are clear) > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.01408 >0&hl=en 416-534-2116 > Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm > Friday 7am to 11pm > Saturday 10 am to 11pm > and Sunday 10am till 5pm > > The espresso's hot and the air conditioning's cool > c'mon down ! > > The adventure has only begun and there's still a lot of work to do; > > website > wifi enhancement > user management > pixleboard control > graphics design > and more ! > > For many of the folks wandering through the door, this will be the first > time they have seen (or heard of) linux. It's important (for me, anyway) > that it's a good first impression. I'm counting on YOU (the linux > community) join in the fun and to help me get this thing firing on all > cylinders. > > Thanks to everyone who has contributed time and/or hardware (Robert > Brockway, Austin, Alain Maisoneuve, James Walker, Bill Tannis, Iain > Calder, Emma Jane Hogbin, Paul DiRezze, Simon P Ditner, Leah Honeywell, > if I've forgotten to list you, sorry, I'm sleep deprived) > > I'm looking forward to meeting many of you list-mates face-to-face, > djp > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 02:38:00 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:38:00 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42ACF188.3050600@quadratic.net> From man dhcpcd -R Prevents *dhcpcd* from replacing existing //etc/resolv.conf/ file. Probably very rarly when your dhcp lease is reset there are new name servers. figure out what the Stunpatico servers are and add them to a static resolv.conf cool? david Alex Beamish wrote: >Hi, > >This will probably be as easy-peasy question for some of you, but >right now the answer is frustratingly beyond my reach. > >I use OpenVPN to stay in touch with my employer's LAN, through >Sympatico's DSL service. I have nameserver statements at the top of my >/etc/resolv.conf file to let me use the Company's name servers to get >to the company servers that I need to, as well as a search statement >for the company domain. Below that are the standard Sympatico name >servers. > >Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) >goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's >two name servers. When that happens, I have to go back into >/etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service >working with my employer's LAN again. > >Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP >addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you >wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu instead >was foo.bar.com. > >So really my question boils down to: > >What causes /etc/resolv.conf to be overwritten on a modem or router >burp, and how can I hook that to automagically fix it? > >Thanks much. > >Alex >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 22:02:50 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:02:50 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: <42AC78CA.25161.16DB127@localhost> > On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Incidentally, the code as you showed it wouldn't even compile, since > you wrote "#indlude" instead of "#include" once. This presumably > means you retyped it rather than doing cut-and-paste or reading it > from a file into your mail message. That's a bad idea, because typos > can make major differences in how a program behaves; when asking about > a programming problem, it's very important to show *exactly* the code > you tried to run. I pasted the program after playing around with it, but thought I would go back to the original version that had return (EXIT_SUCCESS); in the code. For that, I had to add #include , which I did by hand, along with the return statement. > > > When I compiled your source code with a slight modification: single > > quotes around the %s... I got 'something ' Note the \n came *before* > > the closing quote in the output but not in the printf(). > > That's peculiar, but I suspect that another typo might be at fault. > I'm not going to try to diagnose this one without seeing the exact > code. That was my mistake. Quote should have been before the \n. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > __________ NOD32 1.1136 (20050611) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 03:28:12 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:28:12 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <42ACF188.3050600-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42ACF188.3050600@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On 6/12/05, David Thornton wrote: > From man dhcpcd > > -R Prevents *dhcpcd* from replacing existing //etc/resolv.conf/ file. Thanks for your answer .. in Mandrake 10 I have a -r but no -R. However, you've pushed me to finding /sbin/dhclient-script which does a bunch of useful things, including setting up the contesnts of /etc/resolv.conf, and I thank you for that. > Probably very rarly when your dhcp lease is reset there are new name > servers. I don't want to break things and hard-code the Sympatico name servers -- it could be they'd change servers and I might end up pointing to two dead servers. > figure out what the Stunpatico servers are and add them to a static > resolv.conf > > cool? Cool. Thanks for your feedback .. I'll reply again once I get this all figured out. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 03:50:24 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: References: <42ACF188.3050600@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Alex Beamish wrote: > I don't want to break things and hard-code the Sympatico name servers > -- it could be they'd change servers and I might end up pointing to > two dead servers. They shouldn't really be changing the name servers too often. I suggest trying it and seeing how long it takes to break. You can always backout the change easily enough. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 12 22:13:04 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:13:04 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118614384.32047.7.camel@holden.weait.net> On Sun, 2005-06-12 at 17:46, Alex Beamish wrote: > Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) > goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's > two name servers. Probably because dhcp is getting the name server and gateway information from Sympatico dhcpd when you reconnect after the hiccup. If you disable dhcp, and preset the name servers then you'll be okay until the next time sympatico changes the name servers (or the next time the sympatico name servers go down). That happens a lot, so you probably want to leave dhcp on. > When that happens, I have to go back into > /etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service > working with my employer's LAN again. Right. The dhcp client doesn't know that you want to keep nameserver {atwork} when you pick up the dhcp stuff from sympatico. > Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP > addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you > wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu instead > was foo.bar.com. #/etc/hosts # add the next line 192.168.0.123 foo.bar.co Now the name server settings don't matter. Hosts will remember where to look for foo.bar.co -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 10:51:44 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:51:44 -0400 Subject: slashdot: m$ praises unix and linux shell clis and prepares to emulate them In-Reply-To: <200506121747.46966.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506111214.52871.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050612155059.GB12981@waltdnes.org> <200506121747.46966.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050613105144.GB13956@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 05:47:45PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > It used to be the case that you could keep your Windows box deloused > by not installing such things. That no longer seems to be the case. > The biggest growth area of malware is in so called "drive by" malware > where all you have to do is to visit an infected web site while using IE. Oh yeah, the other piece of free software on my machine is Firefox. I do *NOT* use IE for visiting external websites during lunch or researching questions from the public. I've got IE locked down to the point of uselessness so that Outlook (which is a glorified IE front-end) doesn't get infected by spams/worm emails. In a government job it is essential to at least glance at all incoming email, just in case it got mis-labelled as spam. I sometimes fill in for somebody else in a position where I answer questions from the public. Even if it's not directly in our department, I can often find answers via Google, or at least a URL of another government agency or some standards body. A simple typo, DNS poisoning, or compromise of the remote server, could make viewing with IE dangerous. Sometimes I wonder if there's anybody running a business looking up stuff on Google for people who can't seem to figure out how to RTFG. It's second nature to me by now. > So who who administers/delouses the Windows box on your desk and > reinstalls from scratch when it becomes slow, crash prone, or > otherwise unusable? The IT people. Actually, they've done a good job of protecting our site (anti-virus, system policies, etc). In the past several years, I haven't had one virus drop stuff from another machine onto mine, and that got deleted automatically. A couple of hard drive crashes, and they've re-installed the OS and apps. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 10:53:33 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:53:33 -0400 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <42AB0F10.5000304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> <42AB0F10.5000304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050613105333.GD13956@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 12:19:28PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote > > What about parts of *KERNEL MODE* code being 32-bits in a 64-bit > >environment? I'm talking about nVidia's proprietary video-card drivers. > > You Do know that Nvidia has had 64 bit drivers out month before the > first FC2-64 distro was available... That's good to hear. It may allay my concerns about buying an Nvidia motherboard. I assume the drivers cover all the onboard "preipheral chips", i.e. audio, graphics, nic? I'm noticing a lot fewer complaints recently about Nvidia driver problems on the Gentoo list. I don't bother with *EVERY* linux-2.6.11-gentoo-r(n) kernel where (n) is the Gentoo release number. I upgrade every 3rd or 4th kernel release unless there's a security advisory. It's on the kernel upgrades that Nvidia binary drivers seem to have problems. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 10:53:59 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:53:59 -0400 Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) In-Reply-To: <20050612203958.GA3687-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050613105359.GE13956@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 04:39:58PM -0400, William Park wrote > As you know, I've been patching Bash shell: > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ Rather than continuously patching the shell, and risking making it bloatware, have you considered loadable modules like perl's "use"? If you want to get *REALLY* fancy, consider modprobe and rmmod. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 11:15:55 2005 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:15:55 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: ; from talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 17:46:46 -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050613111555.GA1991@localhost> On Sun Jun 12,2005 05:46:46 PM Alex Beamish wrote: > Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) > goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's > two name servers. When that happens, I have to go back into > /etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service > working with my employer's LAN again. > > Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP > addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you > wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu > instead was foo.bar.com. Although you've already gotten a number of suggestions that may work, this may also be a possibility: Provided that you don't have to access too many servers on your employer's LAN, and they don't often change IP addresses, you could use the /etc/hosts (or equivalent) file on your local machine to resolve their addresses, and not use a nameserver for them. That way you don't have the nameserver problems and can still use names in your applications instead of IP addresses. You will, of course, manually have to maintain the hosts file. If you do this, make sure that your hosts file is used before the nameservers, to avoid delays. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 11:37:13 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:37:13 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ABB5DA.2060702-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > [sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with > astonishment] > > OPEN !!! > > whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! > > (and they said it would never happen) > > 1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending > countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, > making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I > couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! > > So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all > Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free > code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting > live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. > > YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! > 326 Harbord > (no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the > numbers are clear) > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.014080&hl=en > 416-534-2116 > Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm > Friday 7am to 11pm > Saturday 10 am to 11pm > and Sunday 10am till 5pm You'll have to change those hours. Real geeks are barely starting their day at 11 pm. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 12:38:25 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:38:25 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42AD6FE9.3030605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> James Knott wrote: >David J Patrick wrote: > > >>[sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with >>astonishment] >> >>OPEN !!! >> >>whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! >> >>(and they said it would never happen) >> >>1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending >>countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, >>making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I >>couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! >> >>So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all >>Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free >>code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting >>live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. >> >>YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! >>326 Harbord >>(no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the >>numbers are clear) >>http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.014080&hl=en >>416-534-2116 >>Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm >>Friday 7am to 11pm >>Saturday 10 am to 11pm >>and Sunday 10am till 5pm >> >> > >You'll have to change those hours. Real geeks are barely starting their >day at 11 pm. ;-) > > Are you going to be serving open source beer ? For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or grape juice ? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 13:18:22 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:18:22 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42AD7E41.9060101-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> Message-ID: <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> John Myshrall wrote: > > Are you going to be serving open source beer ? > > For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or > grape juice ? Now that we're open, we will be applying for a license to purvey the yeast infested barley extractives AND rotten grape juice. But open source ? we can tell you where it came from and everything we might have done to it.. don't forget, though, if you alter that "source code" you are /compelled/ to share your modifications with the rest of us. ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 13:41:38 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:41:38 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42AD879E.80007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050613134138.GB5622@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:18:22AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > John Myshrall wrote: > > > > > Are you going to be serving open source beer ? > > > > For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or > > grape juice ? > > Now that we're open, we will be applying for a license to purvey the > yeast infested barley extractives AND rotten grape juice. But open > source ? we can tell you where it came from and everything we might have > done to it.. don't forget, though, if you alter that "source code" you > are /compelled/ to share your modifications with the rest of us. > ;-) > djp You can talk about it all you like, though - it is free speech, not free beer. :-) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 13:45:13 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42AD879E.80007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > John Myshrall wrote: > > > > > Are you going to be serving open source beer ? > > > > For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or > > grape juice ? > > Now that we're open, we will be applying for a license to purvey the > yeast infested barley extractives AND rotten grape juice. But open > source ? we can tell you where it came from and everything we might have > done to it.. don't forget, though, if you alter that "source code" you > are /compelled/ to share your modifications with the rest of us. > ;-) You could actually release the receipe under the GFDL :) http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html Remember there is OpenCola too (although I'm sure you have enough on your plate for now :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 13:44:21 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:44:21 +0300 (IDT) Subject: test Message-ID: test, please ignore. I got a 554 bounced message from ss.org before Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 13:54:52 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:54:52 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp Message-ID: Hello Alex, I've just started reading your message, and I'm pretty confident that I have a useful solution for your problem. well... actually, this would only work for a linux router, so if you use a small embedded router, forget it When your DHCP client is refreshing its lease, although your ip address stays the same, it updates your DNS records in /etc/resolv.conf . As of yet, I haven't found any '--no-dns-update' option in any of the documentation for DHCP clients, although I haven't really spent a lot of time looking. Instead I wrote a script to update the DNS on my linux router. Since I'm running a small name server for home use only (i.e. not listening on the outside ports, a simple caching / forwarding bind job) every time DHCP updated I was losing integrity within my network (I couldn't lookup a computer by name). Some people may say that using a name server at home is somewhat pointless, and I can agree to a certain extent... but then again I am a bit lazy and prefer to type 'obiwan' instead of '192.168.1.101' ;-) Anyway, below is a perl script which acts well as a daemon. Below that is an init script which should ease some of your problems with only a few modifications. One more thing... i'm just taking a wild stab at it, but your router is probably something like a tiny linksys box, in which case this won't work at all. But in the odd chance that it is a linux box, this would solve all of the problems =). Also, I wrote this script years ago when i was kindof a n00b, but it works, so I don't really care how algorithmically correct it is, or if it isn't the best way to use a call in the shell. So just in case there are any comments about my garbage code, I don't really care. ================================================= # /user/sbin/resolv #!/usr/bin/perl # resolvd v0.2 # Aug. 7, 2004 # written by Christopher Friedt # Electrical & Computer Engineering # Ryerson University # Toronto, Canada # chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org # The purpose of this script is to remove the effects of a dhcp client update # on /etc/resolv.conf. The reason for this is that if one is running a local # BIND resolving, caching nameserver on a private subnet, it references # /etc/resolv.conf upon local request. However, when a dhcpcd update occurs, # /etc/resolv.conf is overwritten, replacing the 'search here.net' with # the nameserver of the local server's ISP or gateway. # for example # this is the proper /etc/resolv.conf of a locally running nameserver, which # is of course only accepting requests from the local interface, but resolving # names outside of the local network: # #nameserver 192.168.1.100 # nameserver 24.153.22.195 # #nameserver 24.153.23.66 # search here.net # #search bloor.phub.net.cable.rogers.com # note that the 1st line is the ip address of the local network interface # and that the 4th line is the domain name associated with the local subnet. # this is what happens when dhcpcd's lease expires, and subsequently it # rewrites /etc/resolv.conf, overriding local name resolution. # nameserver 24.153.22.195 # nameserver 24.153.23.66 # search bloor.phub.net.cable.rogers.com ###### # in the future, it may be nice to have the dhcpcd developers offer an option # to preserve the /etc/resolv.conf of the local nameserver at least partially. # There are two options: insert the local nameserver's info while refreshing # the dhcpcd lease, or to insert the remote nameserver's info giving precedence # to the local nameserver. Both would be trivial to implement. ###### $minute=60; #$hour=60*$minute; $sleeptime=3*$minute; $file="/etc/resolv.conf"; $log="/var/log/resolv.log"; $print_targ=$log; # or STDERR $nameserverip="192.168.1.100"; $localdomain="perpetual-notion.myftp.org"; $ns_counter=0; $s_counter=0; while (1) { open ( LOG, $log ); print LOG `date`; `more $file | grep "$nameserverip" 1> /dev/null`; $result = $? >> 8; if ( $result == 0 ) { print "No need for updates, $file has not changed\n"; sleep ( 10*$minute ); } else { print LOG `date`; print LOG "$file has changed\n"; open (RESOLV, $file); while () { if ( /;/ ) { print LOG "found semicolon\n"; } elsif ( /(search[\s]+)(.*)[\s]*\n/ ) { print LOG "found name $2\n"; push (@name, $2); } elsif ( /nameserver[\s]+([0-9]+.[0-9]+.[0-9]+.[0-9]+)[\s]*\n/ ) { print LOG "found ip $1\n"; push (@ip, $1); } else { ; } } close (RESOLV); # exit(0); # @name = split(/ /, $name); print LOG "Backing up $file to $file.bak\n"; `cp $file $file.bak`; if ( ($? >> 8) != 0 ) { die("Couldn't back up $file\n"); } $ns_counter=0; $s_counter=0; print LOG "Writing new $file\n"; open (RESOLV, ">$file") or die ("Couldn't open $file for rewriting\n"); print RESOLV ";generated automatically by Chris Friedt\n;Electrical & Computer Engineering\n;Ryerson University\n;Toronto, Canada\n;chfriedt\@gwemail.ryerson.ca\n"; print RESOLV "nameserver $nameserverip\n"; $ns_counter++; foreach $a (@ip) { if ( $a ne $nameserverip ) { if ( $ns_counter <= 1 ) { print RESOLV "nameserver $a\n"; $ns_counter++; } else { print RESOLV ";nameserver $a\n"; } } } print RESOLV "search $localdomain\n"; $s_counter++; foreach $a (@name) { if ( $a ne $localdomain ) { if ( $s_counter < 1 ) { print RESOLV "search $a\n"; $s_counter++; } else { print RESOLV ";search $a\n"; } } } print RESOLV "\n"; close (RESOLV); } close (LOG); } =========================================================== # /etc/init.d/resolvd #!/sbin/runscript # . /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions # uncomment/modify for your killproc ## Written by Christopher Friedt chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Mar. 16 2004) . /etc/init.d/functions.sh depend () { after sshd after net.eth0 after net.eth1 } usage() { echo "Usage: $0 {start|stop}" exit 1 } start () { ebegin "Starting resolvd ..." #start-stop-daemon --start --make-pidfile --pidfile "/var/run/resolvd" --exec "/usr/sbin/resolv" /usr/sbin/resolv > /var/log/resolvd 2>&1 & eend $? } stop () { ebegin "Shutting down resolvd ..." #start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile "/var/run/resolvd" kill -9 `pidof -x resolv` #eend $? eend 0 } >>> talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org 6/12/05 5:46:46 pm >>> Hi, This will probably be as easy-peasy question for some of you, but right now the answer is frustratingly beyond my reach. I use OpenVPN to stay in touch with my employer's LAN, through Sympatico's DSL service. I have nameserver statements at the top of my /etc/resolv.conf file to let me use the Company's name servers to get to the company servers that I need to, as well as a search statement for the company domain. Below that are the standard Sympatico name servers. Every once in a while either the modem or the router (Netgear RP614) goes burp and my /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten with Sympatico's two name servers. When that happens, I have to go back into /etc/resolv.conf and add in the definitions to get name service working with my employer's LAN again. Now, OpenVPN comes up right away, so I could use just the IP addresses, but name servers were invented for a reason -- so you wouldn't have to remember if that server was 192.168.0.123 bu instead was foo.bar.com. So really my question boils down to: What causes /etc/resolv.conf to be overwritten on a modem or router burp, and how can I hook that to automagically fix it? Thanks much. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:12:55 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:12:55 -0400 Subject: test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AD9467.1080001@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > test, please ignore. Will do. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:12:50 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:12:50 -0400 Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) In-Reply-To: <20050613105359.GE13956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050613105359.GE13956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050613141250.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 06:53:59AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 04:39:58PM -0400, William Park wrote > > As you know, I've been patching Bash shell: > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > Rather than continuously patching the shell, and risking making it > bloatware, have you considered loadable modules like perl's "use"? If > you want to get *REALLY* fancy, consider modprobe and rmmod. Oh like zsh does. I don't know why people are trying to turn bash into zsh. Do we need any more bloated shells with too many features? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:14:16 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:14:16 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42AD94B8.3070501@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Remember there is OpenCola too (although I'm sure you have enough on your > plate for now :) Cola on a plate??? Most people serve it in a glass. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:16:04 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:16:04 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: References: <42ACF188.3050600@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20050613141604.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 11:28:12PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > I don't want to break things and hard-code the Sympatico name servers > -- it could be they'd change servers and I might end up pointing to > two dead servers. Changing nameservers tend to cause so much internal pain for an ISP that is is rare to do it. I know allstream.net aka AT&T Canada aka Netcom Canada haven't changed their primary name server IPs for at least 10 years. I have them memorized since I have used them so many times in the past, and knowing a pair of reliable name servers is always handy until you can look up the right one for the ISP you are using. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:17:45 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:17:45 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050613141745.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:54:52AM -0400, Chris Friedt wrote: > As of yet, I haven't found any '--no-dns-update' option in any of the > documentation for DHCP clients, although I haven't really spent a lot of > time looking. dhclient has options for dhclient.conf to make it not touch resolv.conf, pump and dhcpcd both have command line options to leave resolv.conf alone. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:20:45 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:20:45 -0700 Subject: Wacky wiki issues In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050522224170ef18bd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f050522224170ef18bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050613142045.GA9763@unleashed.org> We're back up and running on th3e new server again, but I think we will need some work to get the uploads and so on working again. I also now have it doing memcaching, so that should improve speed of things. Same admin info as before for those who want to go to town working on it. Leah -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:27:17 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <20050613141604.GF23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42ACF188.3050600@quadratic.net> <20050613141604.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 11:28:12PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > > I don't want to break things and hard-code the Sympatico name servers > > -- it could be they'd change servers and I might end up pointing to > > two dead servers. > > Changing nameservers tend to cause so much internal pain for an ISP that Yes exactly. Normally it is very troublesome to change nameservers in an organisation. If they ISP maintained seperate nameservers for their clients only and have everyone on DHCP it would be easier for them to change them for clients only. But even then the impetus to change them often would seem to be missing. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:31:18 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <20050613141745.GG23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050613141745.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > dhclient has options for dhclient.conf to make it not touch resolv.conf, > pump and dhcpcd both have command line options to leave resolv.conf > alone. If all else fails there is always chattr if the filesystem supports it. Some years ago I had to deal with a closed-source connection binary (for Linux) for a propriatory protocol used for connection to the ISP (amazing huh). It insisted on changing /etc/resolv.conf, gave no option to disable this behaviour and would even ignore a chmod and change the file anyway. In the end I made /etc/resolv.conf immutable using chattr[1]. Ext2/3 and recent version of XFS support chattr functionality. [1] chattr +i Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:29:04 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:29:04 -0400 Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) In-Reply-To: <20050613105359.GE13956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050613105359.GE13956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050613142904.GA1983@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 06:53:59AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 04:39:58PM -0400, William Park wrote > > As you know, I've been patching Bash shell: > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > > Rather than continuously patching the shell, and risking making it > bloatware, have you considered loadable modules like perl's "use"? > If you want to get *REALLY* fancy, consider modprobe and rmmod. Half of my patch is already loadable builtins. However, shell expression cannot be loadable, because it's new "syntax", as opposed to adding new command. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:29:45 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42AD879E.80007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > John Myshrall wrote: > >> >> Are you going to be serving open source beer ? >> >> For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or >> grape juice ? > > Now that we're open, we will be applying for a license to purvey the > yeast infested barley extractives AND rotten grape juice. But open > source ? -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:32:29 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) In-Reply-To: <20050613141250.GE23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050613105359.GE13956@waltdnes.org> <20050613141250.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Oh like zsh does. I don't know why people are trying to turn bash into > zsh. Do we need any more bloated shells with too many features? I'm waiting for the day when you can set your login shell to emacs and edit files in bash :) JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:39:17 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:39:17 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: On 6/12/05, Henry Spencer wrote: > C doesn't do array assignments, e.g. copying whole strings, with `='. > For that, you have to call strcpy(). Note: NEVER use strcpy(). Use only strncpy(), and always provide a correct length parameter, lest you summon a buffer overflow demon. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:43:06 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slightly OT - M$ and Linux In-Reply-To: <20050611045901.GF9133-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <41982.206.186.8.130.1118673786.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> In the latest update of the M$ Encarta encyclopedia Steve Ballmer has been added as a "topic" with a reference to his 2003 speech on the "menace to Windows" Linux represents... and a strong reminder that Encarta is also from M$. There goes objectivity... Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 14:56:24 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:56:24 -0400 Subject: Wacky wiki issues In-Reply-To: <20050613142045.GA9763-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>; from leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org on Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 07:20:45AM -0700 References: <99a6c38f050522224170ef18bd@mail.gmail.com> <20050613142045.GA9763@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <20050613105624.B5742@diamond.ss.org> For uploads, can you make sure that php is configured to allow uploads. That was one of the many problems we originally had setting it up. PHP gets installed with upload permission turned off by default for security reasons. Bill On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 07:20:45AM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > We're back up and running on th3e new server again, but I think we > will need some work to get the uploads and so on working again. I > also now have it doing memcaching, so that should improve speed of > things. Same admin info as before for those who want to go to town > working on it. > > Leah > -- > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > -------------------------------------------------- > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > -------------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 15:07:45 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at > > the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night > > (as we've had in the past). TIA. > > Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see > about seeing to it... Ok, I'm remiding you on Monday :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 15:19:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:19:54 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ACC42E.8000609-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203812.6103.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> <42ACC42E.8000609@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050613151953.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 07:24:30PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Well you'll be enjoying drinks and panini in the company of other geeks, > for one thing. The place is an example of a retail location using > nothing but open source. We'll have a slew of fresh burned linux distros > and single purpose boot CDs on hand. We are developing an all linux > internet cafe with thin client thinkpads and WiFi to the park. A number > of groups are looking at finding a spot on our schedule to gather and > share technologies; GTA-lug executive board, perl-mongers, the ruby > users group, the asterisk/ voip group and others. We hope to get in a > range of high tech toys for sale (USB keys with fun things on them, WiFi > cards and ThinkGeek type silliness) and soon the shelves will be stocked > with swag; hats, t-shirts, stickers and pocket protectors festooned with > penguins, logos and geeky things on them. Hmm, having a place selling known to work with Linux/BSD using open drivers wifi cards could be handy. Then when people ask, you just tell them to go there to get a working card. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 15:36:31 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: > > For that, you have to call strcpy(). > > Note: NEVER use strcpy(). Use only strncpy(), and always provide a > correct length parameter, lest you summon a buffer overflow demon. ;) strcpy() is perfectly safe if you know the length of the string being copied. There is a faction which argues that that is the preferable approach. strncpy() is actually not much of an improvement, because if the string being copied does overflow the destination, strncpy() won't NUL-terminate it, which is likely to mess up the *next* use of that string. If you want to delegate the length checking to the copy routine, what you want is something like OpenBSD's strlcpy() (not generally available in Linux, alas, due to the religious beliefs of the glibc maintainers). Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 15:39:14 2005 From: jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (James Zhou) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:39:14 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: It makes sense at first glance. However, if you can provide a correct length, you can already know whether your buffer (suppose the buffer size is known) is big enough to use strcpy(), unless what you need is only a sub-string. Plus, strncpy() will not write '\0' at the end. I think an alternative might be the strdup() - string duplicate. But it brings another potential problem if the programmer forgets to explicitly "free" the space after the use. That is because strdup() actually allocates the memory space from heap to hold the copied string. :) Jame Zhou. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taavi Burns" To: Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Scoping question in C On 6/12/05, Henry Spencer wrote: > C doesn't do array assignments, e.g. copying whole strings, with `='. > For that, you have to call strcpy(). Note: NEVER use strcpy(). Use only strncpy(), and always provide a correct length parameter, lest you summon a buffer overflow demon. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 15:44:14 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> >> Note: NEVER use strcpy(). Use only strncpy(), and always provide a >> correct length parameter, lest you summon a buffer overflow demon. ;) > > strcpy() is perfectly safe if you know the length of the string being > copied. There is a faction which argues that that is the preferable > approach. > > strncpy() is actually not much of an improvement, because if the string > being copied does overflow the destination, strncpy() won't NUL-terminate > it, which is likely to mess up the *next* use of that string. > > If you want to delegate the length checking to the copy routine, what you > want is something like OpenBSD's strlcpy() (not generally available in > Linux, alas, due to the religious beliefs of the glibc maintainers). Ahhh, good old C dilemmas! A safe approach is to check the length of the source string, and zero-fill the destination string when using strncpy, after checking that it will fit! Another is to use sprintf which returns the last position written in the string and allows size checking too. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:12:36 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:12:36 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050610061056.GB11293-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610061056.GB11293@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050613161236.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 02:10:56AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > From what I've seen on the Gentoo list so far, AMD64 is one of the > more unstable ports of Gentoo. Another problem is that many, if not > most, AMD64 systems seem to ship with nVidia motherboards. nVidia > refuses to release its specs and insists on you using their proprietary > drivers. When you build a new kernel, you have to include the nVidia > binary modules... otherwise the built-in graphics, built-in sound, and > built-in NIC stop functioning. And there are some instances where you > simply *CANNOT* get the binary drivers to run on newer kernels. Sure, > you can go out and buy a separate video card, a separate audio card, and > a separate NIC. And you end up with an AMD system that costs more than > a comparable Intel system. Actually many boards ship with VIA chipsets and run very well. As for nvidia not releasing specs, well it seems people have managed to make them work anyhow, at least my nforce2 and nforce3 chipset machines run perfectly fine. You don't get to use the DSP on the nforce2, but I can live with plain working sound. For machines where I want proper sound I have an emu10kx chip. The only binary driver I have ever used from nvidia is for their video chips, which also work fine in 2D mode with xfree86 open source drivers in general. The boards I have used so far for amd64 are via and nforce3 based, and I have seen people report great results with nforce4 boards too. Basically the ALSA drivers work great for the i8xx compatible ac97 implementation, and the ide and sata seems to work fine (no NCQ yet, but most drives don't support it either yet) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:22:36 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:22:36 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <200506091643.52096.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <42A6FD6C.2020009@alteeve.com> <200506091643.52096.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20050613162236.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 04:43:52PM +0800, JM wrote: > im planning to run Redhat 9 on this box... do i have to upgrade gcc for this > matter? > > and glibc? Well you might need a newer kernel if the kernel doesn't support the hardware in the box (which is of course very likely given how ancient redhat 9 is by now.) However once you have a kernel that supports the hardware in the machine, any x86 software will run fine and very fast. if you want to take full advantage of the machine, you want to look at a 64bit x86_64 distribution instead. At least on the AMD. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:24:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:24:48 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <1118373653.1866.5.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20050613162448.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 11:20:54PM -0400, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > I don't know if this has been mentioned, but you'd probably get a bigger > performance boost by using a SMP kernel rather than recompiling a > non-SMP kernel for AMD. SMP (Symmetric Multiprocessing) will take > advantage of hyperthreaded processors and you should always install an > SMP kernel on a modern computer. > > On Fedora, for example, there's not SMP kernel option in the installer > but there is a SMP kernel included on the CDs for you to install > manually. AMD doesn't have a hyperthreading processor. They do have dual core if you somehow manage to get your hands on one. On the other hand an smp kernel doesn't seem to ever hurt for most machines so it doesn't really matter. I have seen the ltmodem driver fail to work on smp kernels even on single cpu machines, so for laptops, stick with the single cpu kernel if you are using a winmodem and care to have it work with the binary only drivers. Apparently the coders of binary only drivers don't understand locking. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:25:43 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bash + regex (Thanks to Henry) In-Reply-To: <20050613141250.GE23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050612203958.GA3687@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050613105359.GE13956@waltdnes.org> <20050613141250.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 06:53:59AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 04:39:58PM -0400, William Park wrote >>> As you know, I've been patching Bash shell: >>> http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ >> >> Rather than continuously patching the shell, and risking making it >> bloatware, have you considered loadable modules like perl's "use"? If >> you want to get *REALLY* fancy, consider modprobe and rmmod. > > Oh like zsh does. I don't know why people are trying to turn bash into > zsh. Do we need any more bloated shells with too many features? And we'll never need more than 640K, either. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:32:00 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:32:00 -0400 Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42ADB500.1080004@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: >>>Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at >>>the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night >>>(as we've had in the past). TIA. >>Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see >>about seeing to it... > > Ok, I'm remiding you on Monday :) Has anyone decided on a topic yet? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:32:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:32:47 -0400 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <20050611001122.GE9133-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050613163247.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:11:22PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 10:40:28PM -0400, William Park wrote > A 64-bit cpu running in 32-bit compatability mode makes as much sense > as buying a Mac, and using an emulator to run nothing but Windows apps. > Save yourself some money, and buy the real thing. An AMD 64bit cpu runs x86 32bit code faster than anything else natively (except for a few odd SSE cases where a P4 wins). it makes perfectly good sense, unless you think a Sempron is a good cpu to buy just because you don't use 64bit code yet. The only athlon available now, is 64bit, but runs faster at 32bit than any other athlon ever did, so why not buy the 64bit one. It's cheaper than a P4 that only runs 32bit code too, and faster than that P4. Makes perfect sense if you have 32bit code to run and want the fastest system to run it. > If you can compile most or all of your apps to run in 64-bit mode, > then you can expect genuine improvement in cpu-constrained apps. Any > compile-from-source distro (Gentoo, LFS, Slack, etc) should benefit. > See the article at http://www.devx.com/amd/Article/16018 for details. > To summarize... > > - general-purpose registers (GPRs) increased from 8 in x86-32 to 16 > and, of course, their size is now 64 bits Certainly a benefit to some programs. Too bad you also gain the memory hit from having all pointers twice as large. For pointer heavy code that can actually be significant although with the memory bandwidth of the A64 it's not a big deal. > - 128-bit XMM registers (used for Streaming SIMD instructions) > increased from 8 to 16. > > One big complaint about X86/32bit cpus has been the limited number of > registers. The extra registers on the AMD64 reduce the need for memory > accesses, and a compiler that knows about them can speed up calculations > significantly. > > Now let's talk about 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box (which is why I > changed the thread subject). The AMD64 has 32-bit compatability in > 64-bit userland. Is anybody running in 64-bit mode and have binary-only > stuff like Macromedia/Adobe's Schlockwave-Trash, Sun's Java, and > OpenOffice (depends on Sun's Java) working in 64-bit userland? I have seen 32bit vmware run on a 64bit system, with just 32bit libraries that it requried installed. Debian recomends a chroot to hold the 32bit stuff so apt-get can manage a native 32bit install in the chroot, while /etc/ld.so.conf can point to both the chroot and the main system and most 32bit programs can then be run directly picking up the right libs as needed. Rather painless for most users really. > What about parts of *KERNEL MODE* code being 32-bits in a 64-bit > environment? I'm talking about nVidia's proprietary video-card drivers. > And let's not forget nVidia's mother boards, which are often the base > for AMD64 cpus. Anybody got the motherboard's built-in video/sound/nic > working whilst running the cpu in 64-bit mode? Nvidia released 64bit versions of their drivers a long time ago (long before ati even got around to releasing 64bit windows drivers). forcedeth (reverse engineered driver) works fine. It has source after all. Sound works fine in AC97 mode (alsa likes it) and never needed the binary module. Sata and ide works fine. Video works using either 2D open source drivers in xfree86/x.org as on 32bit, and using 64bit proprietary drivers from nvidia which have been around for at least a year now. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:33:22 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Francois Ouellette wrote: > A safe approach is to check the length of the source string, and zero-fill > the destination string when using strncpy, after checking that it will > fit! If you know it will fit, strcpy() is equally safe, simpler, and more efficient. > Another is to use sprintf which returns the last position written in the > string and allows size checking too. Alas, this is potentially a bit too late; control may be lost before sprintf() returns, if it has overrun its buffer. What you want is snprintf() (which didn't make it into the standard until C99, but was present in a lot of implementations considerably earlier). Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:35:04 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:35:04 -0400 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <20050613105333.GD13956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> <42AB0F10.5000304@alteeve.com> <20050613105333.GD13956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050613163504.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 06:53:33AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > That's good to hear. It may allay my concerns about buying an Nvidia > motherboard. I assume the drivers cover all the onboard "preipheral > chips", i.e. audio, graphics, nic? I'm noticing a lot fewer complaints > recently about Nvidia driver problems on the Gentoo list. I don't > bother with *EVERY* linux-2.6.11-gentoo-r(n) kernel where (n) is the > Gentoo release number. I upgrade every 3rd or 4th kernel release unless > there's a security advisory. It's on the kernel upgrades that Nvidia > binary drivers seem to have problems. nvidia driver worked for me on debian in 64bit mode. Installed from debian package just like on 32bit system. network I never used anything but forcedeth in the 2.6 kernel which always worked in 32 and 46bit mode. Sound works at least in stereo as ac97 with alsa. Always did since it's compatible with other nforce releases. I believe the DSP no longer is part of the chipset, so the proprietary audio driver really wouldn't make any sense anymore. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 16:36:33 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, James Zhou wrote: > I think an alternative might be the strdup() - string duplicate. But it > brings another potential problem if the programmer forgets to explicitly > "free" the space after the use. That is because strdup() actually allocates > the memory space from heap to hold the copied string. :) The advantage to the strdup approach is that you are writing your program to fit the data, rather than hoping that the data will fit your program. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 17:17:42 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:17:42 -0400 Subject: Slightly OT - M$ and Linux In-Reply-To: <41982.206.186.8.130.1118673786.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>; from fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:43:06AM -0400 References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> <41982.206.186.8.130.1118673786.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050613131742.A12544@ee.ryerson.ca> Just out of curiosity, what does the 'linux' entry say? Assuming there is one, of course.. Peter On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:43:06AM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > In the latest update of the M$ Encarta encyclopedia Steve Ballmer has been > added as a "topic" with a reference to his 2003 speech on the "menace to > Windows" Linux represents... and a strong reminder that Encarta is also > from M$. > > There goes objectivity... > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 17:20:48 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:20:48 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On 6/13/05, Francois Ouellette wrote: > A safe approach is to check the length of the source string, and zero-fill > the destination string when using strncpy, after checking that it will > fit! But what if the source string is (somehow) not NULL-terminated! ;) Given a source string of unknown size and a destination string that needs to be X chars: char *source; char dest[X+1] = {0}; // zero-initialise the whole string strncpy(dest, source, X); That will always produce a NULL-terminated string, and has less chance of taking too long a walk off of source (though if source were very small, it still could; something like electricfence helps with finding/debugging this kind of bug). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 17:39:45 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <12319.206.186.8.130.1118677454.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/13/05, Francois Ouellette wrote: >> A safe approach is to check the length of the source string, and zero-fill >> the destination string when using strncpy, after checking that it will >> fit! > > But what if the source string is (somehow) not NULL-terminated! ;) Then, by definition, it is not a string. > Given a source string of unknown size and a destination string that > needs to be X chars: > > char *source; > char dest[X+1] = {0}; // zero-initialise the whole string > > strncpy(dest, source, X); > > That will always produce a NULL-terminated string, and has less chance > of taking too long a walk off of source (though if source were very > small, it still could; something like electricfence helps with > finding/debugging this kind of bug). What's the point in trying to find one method to do different things? If you know that the string will fit in the destination, just use strcpy(). If you don't use one of the other methods that has been given, depending on the situation. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 17:58:10 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: <42ADB500.1080004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADB500.1080004@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > >>On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > >>>Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at > >>>the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night > >>>(as we've had in the past). TIA. > >>Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see > >>about seeing to it... > > > > Ok, I'm remiding you on Monday :) > > Has anyone decided on a topic yet? ;-) WINE/Crossover office. The page was kindly updated by the speaker himself (Wikis rocks :) http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Meetings:2005-06 Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 18:06:01 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:06:01 +0300 (IDT) Subject: bash pipes: _IONBUF option by default ? Message-ID: Hi, is there some way to set _IONBUF on all the pipes opened by bash between the elements of a command pipeline ? Without recompiling bash if possible ? I need such a feature. I will probably implement it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 19:02:52 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: > But what if the source string is (somehow) not NULL-terminated! ;) > Given a source string of unknown size... If you don't know how long it is, there's really not much you can usefully do with it. You *have* to have either NUL termination or a known length. Just copying some arbitrary number of characters into a buffer is neither safe nor reliably useful. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 19:29:18 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:29:18 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: References: <42ABFD51.14871.363EC29@localhost> Message-ID: <42ADDE8E.1090409@interlog.com> James Zhou wrote: >Plus, strncpy() will not write '\0' at the end. > > It won't guarantee a NUL at the end of the output from the copying by putting one in your output buffer. The copied string may or may not be NUL terminated depending on the length of the original string to be copied vs. the number of bytes you want to copy. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 19:39:22 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:39:22 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> <42AD6FE9.3030605@rogers.com> <42AD7E41.9060101@golden.net> <42AD879E.80007@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42ADE0EA.4020805@golden.net> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > >> John Myshrall wrote: >> >>> >>> Are you going to be serving open source beer ? >>> >>> For that matter any variety of yeast fermented malted barley water or >>> grape juice ? >> >> >> Now that we're open, we will be applying for a license to purvey the >> yeast infested barley extractives AND rotten grape juice. But open >> source ? > > > > Yep as the Magic Mushrooms put it ....................... "the open source is on my mind" Hey wadda mean rotten grape juice. My canteena has what many consider to be nectar of the Gods. Well except for that white version I use that for floor cleaning and engine degreasing ;-) . John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 19:44:21 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:44:21 -0400 Subject: Projector needed June 14 In-Reply-To: References: <42ADB500.1080004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42ADE215.30804@golden.net> Robert Brockway wrote: >On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > > > >>Robert Brockway wrote: >> >> >>>On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>On 6/6/05, Robert Brockway wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi all. We really need a projector suitable for connection to a laptop at >>>>>the next talk (June 14). Can anyone lend one to the club for the night >>>>>(as we've had in the past). TIA. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Remind me on Monday that I need to toss in the Big Pack and I'll see >>>>about seeing to it... >>>> >>>> >>>Ok, I'm remiding you on Monday :) >>> >>> >>Has anyone decided on a topic yet? ;-) >> >> > >WINE/Crossover office. > >The page was kindly updated by the speaker himself (Wikis rocks :) > >http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Meetings:2005-06 > >Cheers, > Rob > > > Now I'm torn .... my 40th Bday or TLUG ....... beer. Gotta check with wifie. :-P John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 20:16:07 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:16:07 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 03:02:52PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20050613161607.D5742@diamond.ss.org> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 03:02:52PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Taavi Burns wrote: > > But what if the source string is (somehow) not NULL-terminated! ;) > > Given a source string of unknown size... > > If you don't know how long it is, there's really not much you can usefully > do with it. You *have* to have either NUL termination or a known length. > Just copying some arbitrary number of characters into a buffer is neither > safe nor reliably useful. > It is possible to count the number of characters until a NUL is found, then allocate memory for that length and copy it to the allocated memory and return that memory. Just remember to deallocate the memory. x=0; while ( string[x] != 0 ) { x++; } y= malloc(sizeof(char)*(x+1) ); stcpy (string, y); Note there is no guarentee the program is correct or works. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 20:36:28 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050613161607.D5742-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050613161607.D5742@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > If you don't know how long it is, there's really not much you can usefully > > do with it. You *have* to have either NUL termination or a known length... > > It is possible to count the number of characters until a NUL is found... *If* you're confident that there is a NUL at the end. If there isn't one, it's quite possible for unkind things (e.g. a segmentation-fault trap) to occur before you happen across a NUL in memory. For that matter, even if you do reach an accidental NUL before getting a trap etc., you could end up with a "string" that happens to overlap the buffer you're going to copy it into... in which case strcpy() may well infinite-loop or otherwise misbehave. I repeat: you *have* to have either NUL termination or a known length. Somehow you have to know where the sequence of characters ends! > x=0; > while ( string[x] != 0 ) { x++; } > y= malloc(sizeof(char)*(x+1) ); > stcpy (string, y); > Note there is no guarentee the program is correct or works. It's not and doesn't. :-) Should be something like: y = malloc(strlen(string) + 1); assert(y != NULL); strcpy(y, string); Using strlen() is easier and possibly faster than doing it yourself. sizeof(char) is guaranteed to be 1 and hence arguably doesn't need explicit mention. A more graceful out-of-memory recovery strategy would be better than assert(), but *something* needs to check that malloc() succeeded. And strcpy() copies from second operand to first, not the other way. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 21:10:41 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:10:41 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage Message-ID: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have problem with my program that I am wondering if a work-around exists for. I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with a sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file. I am running the program on the same machine that the browser is running on so bandwidth shouldn't be the issue (it's all via 'localhost:853'). When I send the output to a text file (the log) instead of the the browser the page "loads" in a few seconds. This should mean then that the code itself is not the source of the bottle neck. When I send the output to the browser though Mozilla jumps to 100% CPU usage and it take a very long time (minutes) to load the same data. Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory creates a cell in a table)? Is it latency somewhere else (TCP/IP)? Any hints/tips would be great! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 21:32:40 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42ADF651.7010304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with > a sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be > displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file... When I send the > output to the browser though Mozilla jumps to 100% CPU usage and it take > a very long time (minutes) to load the same data. > Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory > creates a cell in a table)? Rendering of huge tables is almost always slow, especially if the machine doesn't have piles of memory. It's typically necessary for the browser to build up a data structure representing the *entire* table before it can decide how wide columns should be etc. This takes a long time and a very large amount of memory (the representation is often quite inefficient), and especially if that's driving your machine into paging/swapping, it's not too surprising that it's slow. If you can find some way of breaking that table up into smaller ones, or using something simpler than a table, odds are you'll see a major improvement. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 22:46:39 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:46:39 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AE0CCF.2060103@alteeve.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with >>a sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be >>displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file... When I send the >>output to the browser though Mozilla jumps to 100% CPU usage and it take >>a very long time (minutes) to load the same data. >> Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory >>creates a cell in a table)? > > > Rendering of huge tables is almost always slow, especially if the machine > doesn't have piles of memory. It's typically necessary for the browser to > build up a data structure representing the *entire* table before it can > decide how wide columns should be etc. This takes a long time and a very > large amount of memory (the representation is often quite inefficient), > and especially if that's driving your machine into paging/swapping, it's > not too surprising that it's slow. > > If you can find some way of breaking that table up into smaller ones, or > using something simpler than a table, odds are you'll see a major > improvement. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Hi, I broke each cell into it's own table which obviosuly increased the data size but just as you said cut the display time down from ~5 minutes to 62 seconds for my test. Not a bad performance boost, if I do say so myself. :D Still need it faster though, if possible. Maybe if I turn off perl's buffers? That should show the user that something is happening and prevent timeouts. I wonder how much overhead that will add? Time to experiment! Thanks very much! Madison Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 13 23:28:00 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:28:00 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42AE0CCF.2060103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42AE0CCF.2060103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200506131928.02093.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 13, 2005 18:46, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi, I broke each cell into it's own table which obviosuly increased the > data size but just as you said cut the display time down from ~5 minutes > to 62 seconds for my test. Not a bad performance boost, if I do say so > myself. :D Still need it faster though, if possible. > > Maybe if I turn off perl's buffers? That should show the user that > something is happening and prevent timeouts. I wonder how much overhead > that will add? Time to experiment! If you do not mind making your application Mozilla specific, you can always take advantage of some of the things offered by the Mozilla suite of tools, such as XUL and RDF. RDF, in particular, would be quite suitable for very large datasets. An example of RDF usage in the Mozilla suite of technologies is that Thunderbird uses RDF to render the contents of mailboxes. Even with large numbers of messages in a given mailbox, Thunderbird still remains responsive. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:40:27 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:40:27 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AE277B.8000200@interlog.com> Henry Spencer wrote: >On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >> Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory >>creates a cell in a table)? >> >> > >Rendering of huge tables is almost always slow, especially if the machine >doesn't have piles of memory. It's typically necessary for the browser to >build up a data structure representing the *entire* table before it can >decide how wide columns should be etc. This takes a long time and a very >large amount of memory (the representation is often quite inefficient), >and especially if that's driving your machine into paging/swapping, it's >not too surprising that it's slow. > > If the browser is causing a delay since it doesn't know how wide a column should be, the simple solution for that part of the puzzle is to specify the column widths so the browser can begin formatting text right away. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:43:43 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:43:43 -0400 Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <20050613161607.D5742-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050613161607.D5742@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <42AE283F.7030704@interlog.com> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >x=0; >while ( string[x] != 0 ) { x++; } > > Rather than use a loop you might as well just call strlen(). If you are going to use a loop here you should add a counter in order to impose a limit on the number of bytes should be copied based on what you think is a reasonable upper limit on what your program should expect to handle in terms of string length. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:52:24 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42AE277B.8000200-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42AE277B.8000200@interlog.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >...It's typically necessary for the browser to > >build up a data structure representing the *entire* table before it can > >decide how wide columns should be etc... > > If the browser is causing a delay since it doesn't know how wide a > column should be, the simple solution for that part of the puzzle is to > specify the column widths so the browser can begin formatting text right > away. Unfortunately, the browser is entitled to decide that your specified widths are minimums rather than firm specifications, in which case it might *still* want to save up the whole table before deciding what widths to use. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:54:28 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Scoping question in C In-Reply-To: <42AE283F.7030704-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42AE283F.7030704@interlog.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >x=0; > >while ( string[x] != 0 ) { x++; } > > Rather than use a loop you might as well just call strlen(). If you are > going to use a loop here you should add a counter in order to impose a > limit on the number of bytes should be copied based on what you think is > a reasonable upper limit... And *that* operation is better done using memchr(), as it happens. (memchr() gives you back a pointer, but you just subtract the start pointer from that to yield the length.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:55:49 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:55:49 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42AE277B.8000200-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42AE277B.8000200@interlog.com> Message-ID: <42AE2B15.4050008@alteeve.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: > >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> >>> Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each >>> directory creates a cell in a table)? >>> >> >> >> Rendering of huge tables is almost always slow, especially if the machine >> doesn't have piles of memory. It's typically necessary for the >> browser to >> build up a data structure representing the *entire* table before it can >> decide how wide columns should be etc. This takes a long time and a very >> large amount of memory (the representation is often quite inefficient), >> and especially if that's driving your machine into paging/swapping, it's >> not too surprising that it's slow. >> > If the browser is causing a delay since it doesn't know how wide a > column should be, the simple solution for that part of the puzzle is to > specify the column widths so the browser can begin formatting text right > away. This I do already (though I didn't realize it would have a performance benefit, rather it was out of habit). Good to know though, thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 00:57:08 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:57:08 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <200506131928.02093.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42AE0CCF.2060103@alteeve.com> <200506131928.02093.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <42AE2B64.7020503@alteeve.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On June 13, 2005 18:46, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi, I broke each cell into it's own table which obviosuly increased the >>data size but just as you said cut the display time down from ~5 minutes >>to 62 seconds for my test. Not a bad performance boost, if I do say so >>myself. :D Still need it faster though, if possible. >> >>Maybe if I turn off perl's buffers? That should show the user that >>something is happening and prevent timeouts. I wonder how much overhead >>that will add? Time to experiment! > > > If you do not mind making your application Mozilla specific, you can always > take advantage of some of the things offered by the Mozilla suite of tools, > such as XUL and RDF. RDF, in particular, would be quite suitable for very > large datasets. An example of RDF usage in the Mozilla suite of technologies > is that Thunderbird uses RDF to render the contents of mailboxes. Even with > large numbers of messages in a given mailbox, Thunderbird still remains > responsive. It's tempting but I want this to be a generally available, public program and I don't think a Mozilla-only limitation would go over well. I am currently experimenting with some Javascript trees to see how well they perform. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 15:55:23 2005 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:55:23 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <20050613141745.GG23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050613141745.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050614155523.GA5363@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:17:45AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > dhclient has options for dhclient.conf to make it not touch resolv.conf, It also has options that would allow you to prepend or supersede the domain-name-servers provided by DHCP. I think a simple prepend domain-name-servers [work nameserver ip here]; in /etc/dhclient.conf would be all the OP needs to get what he wants. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 06:00:41 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:00:41 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42ADF651.7010304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have problem with my program that I am wondering if a work-around exists > for. > > I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with a > sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be > displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file. I am running the program on the same > machine that the browser is running on so bandwidth shouldn't be the issue > (it's all via 'localhost:853'). > > When I send the output to a text file (the log) instead of the the browser > the page "loads" in a few seconds. This should mean then that the code itself > is not the source of the bottle neck. When I send the output to the browser > though Mozilla jumps to 100% CPU usage and it take a very long time (minutes) > to load the same data. > > Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory > creates a cell in a table)? Is it latency somewhere else (TCP/IP)? Any > hints/tips would be great! Make sure your html file has perfect syntax (lint the page using a validator) and add the header Connection: close to the server response headers. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 12:23:53 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:23:53 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42AECC59.2050807@alteeve.com> Peter wrote: > Make sure your html file has perfect syntax (lint the page using a > validator) and add the header Connection: close to the server response > headers. > > Peter Hi, I've been meaning to check the validity but hadn't yet because I was still building the program. Now that I am in the testing phase I have no excuse and should do that asap. Is there any tools that you know of off hand that would be good to check dynamically generated pages (through perl) against? Or should I just save a copy of various pages and check those? May I ask, how would I add Connection: close to the server responce? Is this a web-server configuration option? I hope this isn't too simple a question ^_^;. Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 12:28:06 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:28:06 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42ADF651.7010304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42AECD56.7010400@sympatico.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > > I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with a > sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be > displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file. I have to ask -- is it ever really useful to present the user with this much data? It does sound like you're testing a slightly unusual option on your software. Even so, what user could make sense of even a tenth of this output? It might be better to use some kind of data pager (there are Perl modules that will handle paging through query results with little extra programming effort). You could represent the data some other way (a tree?) to let the user drill down to see what they're interested in. I don't think we can expect HTML to implement proper text tabulation any time soon. The time for that was HTML 2.0, or earlier. What it has is meant for small display tables, not thousands of lines of results. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 13:45:29 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:45:29 -0400 Subject: Restoring /etc/resolv.conf after a modem/router burp In-Reply-To: <20050614155523.GA5363-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050613141745.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050614155523.GA5363@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/14/05, Rick Delaney wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:17:45AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > dhclient has options for dhclient.conf to make it not touch resolv.conf, > > It also has options that would allow you to prepend or supersede > the domain-name-servers provided by DHCP. I think a simple > > prepend domain-name-servers [work nameserver ip here]; > > in /etc/dhclient.conf would be all the OP needs to get what he wants. Rick, I think this is exactly what I need. I'll try it out the next time I get a chance. Thanks for the feedback! Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 13:51:09 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:51:09 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ Message-ID: I don't know if anyone noticed on slashdot this morning, but Daniel Robbins, founder of Gentoo Linux has recently been hired by Microsoft. I guess it's not surprising, considering that one of MS's many business strategies has usually been to buy out / reverse engineer any competition or new ideas. Gentoo is mainly know for using portage - a sophisticated dependency tree and package management system. I suppose the person who originally came up with the idea for BSD's ports would have had an offer if BSD had been as popular w/ the masses as Linux. As much as i feel that he's 'crossed over to the dark side', I'm still somewhat glad that he's transferred all of his intellectual property rights to the gentoo foundation. Any thoughts? ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 15:42:02 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:42:02 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/14/05, Chris Friedt wrote: > I don't know if anyone noticed on slashdot this morning, but Daniel > Robbins, founder of Gentoo Linux has recently been hired by Microsoft. > > I guess it's not surprising, considering that one of MS's many business > strategies has usually been to buy out / reverse engineer any > competition or new ideas. Gentoo is mainly know for using portage - a > sophisticated dependency tree and package management system. > > I suppose the person who originally came up with the idea for BSD's > ports would have had an offer if BSD had been as popular w/ the masses > as Linux. > > As much as i feel that he's 'crossed over to the dark side', I'm still > somewhat glad that he's transferred all of his intellectual property > rights to the gentoo foundation. > > > Any thoughts? This has been said on SlashDot already, but, for better or for worse, Microsoft has a habit of hiring bright people. Perhaps this hire will be one more drop in the bucket that will tilt Microsoft towards open source. However, keep in mind that one of Bill Gates' early experience with open source was a bad one -- a paper tape copy of his and Paul Allen's BASIC for the Altair was nicked, way back when. In addition, Microsoft may still have to learn how it's possible to make money from open source software. While they maintain a monopoly on the desktop, they may not feel the urge to change their business model. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 15:51:14 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:51:14 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> This new "hire and silence" strategy on the part of Microsoft actually stands a good chance of slowing the open source movement. In reality it is a small variation on their embrace and extend practices of time gone past. Like it or not the life blood of our open source movement rests with the independent developers who create the stuff in the first place. Microsoft certainly has the $ to "hire and silence" a great deal of the key people in the open source movement if it truely wanted to. The fact is that they wouldn't have to hire very many to make the strategy effective ... they would just have to poach some key people. Can't fault those who take Microsoft up on their offers either ... all developers have to eat ... and why should lawyers be the only ones making any money. bob On June 14, 2005 09:51 am, you wrote: > I don't know if anyone noticed on slashdot this morning, but Daniel > Robbins, founder of Gentoo Linux has recently been hired by Microsoft. > > I guess it's not surprising, considering that one of MS's many business > strategies has usually been to buy out / reverse engineer any > competition or new ideas. Gentoo is mainly know for using portage - a > sophisticated dependency tree and package management system. > > I suppose the person who originally came up with the idea for BSD's > ports would have had an offer if BSD had been as popular w/ the masses > as Linux. > > As much as i feel that he's 'crossed over to the dark side', I'm still > somewhat glad that he's transferred all of his intellectual property > rights to the gentoo foundation. > > > Any thoughts? > > > ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 15:58:13 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:58:13 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > However, keep in mind that one of Bill Gates' early experience with > open source was a bad one -- a paper tape copy of his and Paul Allen's > BASIC for the Altair was nicked, way back when. It couldn't be considered "open source", if he didn't intend to release it. He didn't mind "borrowing" other's code (he got some by dumpster diving), but he had no intention of giving away anything he created. Also, he developed his BASIC on Harvard computers, despite a prohibition on using those computers for commercial purposes. In short, he stole other people's code, stole computer time, and then tried to keep everything for himself. Hardly open source. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 16:25:40 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:25:40 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42AEFE95.4020408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/14/05, James Knott wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: > > However, keep in mind that one of Bill Gates' early experience with > > open source was a bad one -- a paper tape copy of his and Paul Allen's > > BASIC for the Altair was nicked, way back when. > > It couldn't be considered "open source", if he didn't intend to release > it. He didn't mind "borrowing" other's code (he got some by dumpster > diving), but he had no intention of giving away anything he created. I wrote this a bit 'tongue in cheek' .. perhaps that didn't come out in my explanation. > Also, he developed his BASIC on Harvard computers, despite a prohibition > on using those computers for commercial purposes. In short, he stole > other people's code, stole computer time, and then tried to keep > everything for himself. Hardly open source. I'm not as familiar with how the code was developed, however, university is a place for learning, and it could be that his work could have morphed into some kind of undergraduate project. This raises an interesting question .. did Hardvard ever go after young Mr. Gates for compensation if it was proven that he used the computers to develop his Altair BASIC? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 16:40:33 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:40:33 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050614164032.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 11:42:02AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > This has been said on SlashDot already, but, for better or for worse, > Microsoft has a habit of hiring bright people. Perhaps this hire will > be one more drop in the bucket that will tilt Microsoft towards open > source. > > However, keep in mind that one of Bill Gates' early experience with > open source was a bad one -- a paper tape copy of his and Paul Allen's > BASIC for the Altair was nicked, way back when. But that was only a problem because Bill didn't WANT to share it. He wanted to make money selling software. He doesn't seem to believe as much in making money writing and improving software as a service as he does in selling software. > In addition, Microsoft may still have to learn how it's possible to > make money from open source software. While they maintain a monopoly > on the desktop, they may not feel the urge to change their business > model. So far they seem to think the nly way is to sell the same software every few years with a few improvements added. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 16:45:26 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:45:26 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42AF09A6.9020505@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/14/05, James Knott wrote: >>Also, he developed his BASIC on Harvard computers, despite a prohibition >>on using those computers for commercial purposes. In short, he stole >>other people's code, stole computer time, and then tried to keep >>everything for himself. Hardly open source. > > I'm not as familiar with how the code was developed, however, > university is a place for learning, and it could be that his work > could have morphed into some kind of undergraduate project. > > This raises an interesting question .. did Hardvard ever go after > young Mr. Gates for compensation if it was proven that he used the > computers to develop his Altair BASIC? I read about this in a book about the history of modern computers. IIRC, Harvard didn't do anything, other than tighten up their policies. Also, as I recall, he started work on BASIC, after he promised it to Ed Roberts at Altair. Also, at that time BASIC was a teaching language and the source would have been available to students. I wonder how much of that was "borrowed" by Sir Billy? Back in those days, source code was routinely made available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 16:50:12 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42AF09A6.9020505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42AF09A6.9020505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > ...Also, at that time BASIC was a teaching language and > the source would have been available to students. Yes and no and maybe. Just because a particular BASIC implementation was meant to be used for teaching (and there was non-teaching use of BASIC even then) doesn't mean that its source code was available at all, never mind to students. Plenty of teaching-oriented language implementations were shipped binary-only. > ...Back in those days, source code was routinely made available. Sometimes, and sometimes not. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:00:06 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:00:06 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AF0D16.9020104@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: >>...Also, at that time BASIC was a teaching language and >>the source would have been available to students. > > Yes and no and maybe. Just because a particular BASIC implementation was > meant to be used for teaching (and there was non-teaching use of BASIC > even then) doesn't mean that its source code was available at all, never > mind to students. Plenty of teaching-oriented language implementations > were shipped binary-only. > >>...Back in those days, source code was routinely made available. > > Sometimes, and sometimes not. Back in the mid '70s, I bought a few packages, including a BASIC interpreter, for my IMSAI 8080. Every one of them came with printed source code, though source on paper tape was an extra cost option. The mini-computers at work also came with a lot of source code. In fact, to initially load that BASIC into my system, I had to manually toggle it in via the front panel (in binary), and then save to cassette! A large portion of the manual was fully commented source code, complete with object code in octal or hex. Incidentally, when I was entering all that code, I was working up in Armstrong Ont., for a month, so I had plenty of time to kill after work. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:05:07 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:05:07 -0400 Subject: Exporting Constants in Perl Message-ID: <1118768707.22285.32.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Hey, I have a module in Perl that has some constants that I want to export. What is the proper syntax to do this? Here is what I am doing: package res_commandline; BEGIN { use Exporter (); use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK %EXPORT_TAGS); # Set the Version Number of this Package for # Version Checking $VERSION = 0.01; @ISA = qw(Exporter); # Exported Routines below, with optional tags. @EXPORT = qw(); %EXPORT_TAGS= (@EXPORT_OK); # Exported Global Variables. This at the minute should be none. @EXPORT_OK = qw( &logError &getDBParams &programCrash &getEnvHash TL_LOG_LOG TL_LOG_INFO TL_LOG_NOTICE TL_LOG_WARNING TL_LOG_ERROR TL_LOG_CRASH ); } use subs @EXPORT_OK; #Global Variables my $ERROR_LOG_DIR = "/var/log/talaria"; my $ERROR_LOG = "error_log"; use constant TL_LOG_LOG => 55; use constant TL_LOG_INFO => 2; use constant TL_LOG_NOTICE => 3; use constant TL_LOG_WARNING => 4; use constant TL_LOG_ERRROR => 5; use constant TL_LOG_CRASH => 6; #more module code here... Then I do this in my file to use it: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; use DBI; #import my functions and constants use res_commandline qw(logError getDBParams programCrash TL_LOG_LOG TL_LOG_INFO TL_LOG_NOTICE TL_LOG_WARNING TL_LOG_ERROR TL_LOG_CRASH); use res_utils qw(doSQL); #import my sql function print ("TL_LOG_LOG:".TL_LOG_LOG."\n"); #print out my constant When I run this, it runs correctly but I get the following error messages: Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_LOG vs () at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_INFO vs () at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_NOTICE vs () at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_WARNING vs () at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_CRASH vs () at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. Is this because perl doesn't know that I am exporting constants? Is there a symbol I have to use, you know like $ for scalars or & for subs? I have been looking through my books on perl and the web but I cannot find a specific example of exporting a constant. Thanks for any help. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:25:37 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, bob wrote: > This new "hire and silence" strategy on the part of Microsoft actually > stands a good chance of slowing the open source movement. In reality it I don't think so. OSS is developed by tens of thousands of dedicated developers and the number is growing rapidly. MS is only picking up a few of the more famous people (and even then only a small minority). I don't see their hiring efforts having any effect on the growth of OSS. > Microsoft certainly has the $ to "hire and silence" a great deal of the key > people in the open source movement if it truely wanted to. The fact is > that they wouldn't have to hire very many to make the strategy effective ... > they would just have to poach some key people. I disagree. Everytime someone becomes less active in OSS (and it happens) they are replaced. The OSS movement can survive the loss of any of its key members, or a many of them. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:25:36 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:25:36 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42AECC59.2050807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> <42AECC59.2050807@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > Peter wrote: >> Make sure your html file has perfect syntax (lint the page using a >> validator) and add the header Connection: close to the server response >> headers. >> >> Peter > > Hi, > > I've been meaning to check the validity but hadn't yet because I was still > building the program. Now that I am in the testing phase I have no excuse and > should do that asap. Is there any tools that you know of off hand that would > be good to check dynamically generated pages (through perl) against? Or > should I just save a copy of various pages and check those? > > May I ask, how would I add Connection: close to the server responce? Is > this a web-server configuration option? I hope this isn't too simple a > question ^_^;. That depends on the server. If you make the headers yourself then simply add that header. If the server makes them then you have to find out from the server docmentation. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:21:37 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:21:37 -0400 Subject: Exporting Constants in Perl In-Reply-To: <1118768707.22285.32.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1118768707.22285.32.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <1118769698.22285.36.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 13:05 -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I have a module in Perl that has some constants that I want to export. > What is the proper syntax to do this? > > Here is what I am doing: > > package res_commandline; > > BEGIN > { > use Exporter (); > use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK %EXPORT_TAGS); > # Set the Version Number of this Package for > # Version Checking > $VERSION = 0.01; > @ISA = qw(Exporter); > # Exported Routines below, with optional tags. > @EXPORT = qw(); > %EXPORT_TAGS= (@EXPORT_OK); > # Exported Global Variables. This at the minute should be none. > @EXPORT_OK = qw( &logError &getDBParams &programCrash > &getEnvHash > TL_LOG_LOG TL_LOG_INFO TL_LOG_NOTICE TL_LOG_WARNING TL_LOG_ERROR > TL_LOG_CRASH > ); > > } > > use subs @EXPORT_OK; > > #Global Variables > my $ERROR_LOG_DIR = "/var/log/talaria"; > my $ERROR_LOG = "error_log"; > > use constant TL_LOG_LOG => 55; > use constant TL_LOG_INFO => 2; > use constant TL_LOG_NOTICE => 3; > use constant TL_LOG_WARNING => 4; > use constant TL_LOG_ERRROR => 5; > use constant TL_LOG_CRASH => 6; > > #more module code here... > > > Then I do this in my file to use it: > > > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > > use strict; > use DBI; > > #import my functions and constants > use res_commandline qw(logError getDBParams programCrash TL_LOG_LOG > TL_LOG_INFO TL_LOG_NOTICE TL_LOG_WARNING TL_LOG_ERROR TL_LOG_CRASH); > > > use res_utils qw(doSQL); #import my sql function > > > print ("TL_LOG_LOG:".TL_LOG_LOG."\n"); #print out my constant > > > When I run this, it runs correctly but I get the following error > messages: > Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_LOG vs () > at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. > Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_INFO vs () > at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. > Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_NOTICE vs () > at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. > Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_WARNING vs () > at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. > Prototype mismatch: sub res_commandline::TL_LOG_CRASH vs () > at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.6.1/constant.pm line 91. > > > Is this because perl doesn't know that I am exporting constants? Is > there a symbol I have to use, you know like $ for scalars or & for subs? > I have been looking through my books on perl and the web but I cannot > find a specific example of exporting a constant. > > Thanks for any help. > > > I just tried it with "our" instead of "use subs" and it works...but why? use subs @EXPORT_OK; becomes our @EXPORT_OK; I assume the problem is that use subs only expects subs to be exported. So should I always use our? Does use subs offer any benefits over our? Now my file works, but I just want to know what is the correct syntax and why. Thanks. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 17:47:37 2005 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050614174737.81337.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> The hiring by M$ can also stimulate OSS development. Some will still continue doing it for the principle, some for the love of it, some for the possibility at the end of the day. EK --- Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, bob wrote: > > > This new "hire and silence" strategy on the part > of Microsoft actually > > stands a good chance of slowing the open source > movement. In reality it > > I don't think so. OSS is developed by tens of > thousands of dedicated > developers and the number is growing rapidly. MS is > only picking up a few > of the more famous people (and even then only a > small minority). I don't > see their hiring efforts having any effect on the > growth of OSS. > > > Microsoft certainly has the $ to "hire and > silence" a great deal of the key > > people in the open source movement if it truely > wanted to. The fact is > > that they wouldn't have to hire very many to make > the strategy effective ... > > they would just have to poach some key people. > > I disagree. Everytime someone becomes less active > in OSS (and it happens) > they are replaced. The OSS movement can survive the > loss of any of its > key members, or a many of them. > > Cheers, > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions > Ltd. > Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to > real world problems. > Contributing Member of Software in the Public > Interest http://www.spi-inc.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:26:35 2005 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:26:35 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, bob wrote: > > > This new "hire and silence" strategy on the part of Microsoft actually > > stands a good chance of slowing the open source movement. In reality it > > I don't think so. OSS is developed by tens of thousands of dedicated > developers and the number is growing rapidly. MS is only picking up a few > of the more famous people (and even then only a small minority). I don't > see their hiring efforts having any effect on the growth of OSS. Judging by the number of orphans on SourceForge, losing one or two key developers is enough to slow or shut down an OSS project. It's true that most large projects have dozens of developers with potential replacements eagerly waiting in the wings, however most OSS projects are run by a handful of people. Even some of the high-profile projects are identified with and driven by only a couple of programmers. Would Samba survive if Tridge left? Sure. Would the project be set back for a considerable amount of time? Definitely. > > Microsoft certainly has the $ to "hire and silence" a great deal of the key > > people in the open source movement if it truely wanted to. The fact is > > that they wouldn't have to hire very many to make the strategy effective ... > > they would just have to poach some key people. > > I disagree. Everytime someone becomes less active in OSS (and it happens) > they are replaced. The OSS movement can survive the loss of any of its > key members, or a many of them. Has anyone stepped up to maintain any of JWZ's projects since he very publicly ditched Linux for OS X and announced "not to hold your breath for new releases" of the software he wrote/maintained? //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:31:40 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:31:40 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <20050614174737.81337.qmail-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614174737.81337.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42AF228C.8010305@rogers.com> E K wrote: > The hiring by M$ can also stimulate OSS development. > Some will still continue doing it for the principle, > some for the love of it, some for the possibility at > the end of the day. I wonder who owns the IP rights, when an MS employee develops software on their own time? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:39:03 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <20050614174737.81337.qmail-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614174737.81337.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, E K wrote: > The hiring by M$ can also stimulate OSS development. > Some will still continue doing it for the principle, > some for the love of it, some for the possibility at > the end of the day. Yeah that's a good point. People do things (such as support OSS) for very different reasons. Having different people support OSS for a variety of reasons strengthens OSS. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:38:05 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <22318ee505061411266c61226f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, marius wrote: > Even some of the high-profile projects are identified with and driven > by only a couple of programmers. Would Samba survive if Tridge left? > Sure. Would the project be set back for a considerable amount of time? > Definitely. I agree that individual projects could get a set back but I just don't think even MS can hire enough people to set back OSS as a whole (which was the assertion I responded to, not that individual projects could be slowed down). Besides, at least a percentage of OSS advocates would never work for MS. > Has anyone stepped up to maintain any of JWZ's projects since he very > publicly ditched Linux for OS X and announced "not to hold your breath > for new releases" of the software he wrote/maintained? I have a lasez-faire attitude. If there is demand someone will do it. If no one has picked up the ball then no developer cared enough. Remember too that plenty of SF projects start out only as a wish list. If free development has a weakness it is that projects that are not as much fun, even if they are necessary, are slow to develop. OSS generally covers most areas really well but a few obvious holes are left (like accounting software until recently). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:44:50 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:44:50 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <22318ee505061411266c61226f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42AF25A2.3000703@cheapersafer.com> marius wrote: >On 6/14/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > > >> >>I don't think so. OSS is developed by tens of thousands of dedicated >>developers and the number is growing rapidly. MS is only picking up a few >>of the more famous people (and even then only a small minority). I don't >>see their hiring efforts having any effect on the growth of OSS. >> >> > >Judging by the number of orphans on SourceForge, losing one or two key >developers is enough to slow or shut down an OSS project. > > > Project != Movement >It's true that most large projects have dozens of developers with >potential replacements eagerly waiting in the wings, however most OSS >projects are run by a handful of people. > >Even some of the high-profile projects are identified with and driven >by only a couple of programmers. Would Samba survive if Tridge left? >Sure. Would the project be set back for a considerable amount of time? >Definitely. > > > No one stays on a project forever, whether they get hired by M$, hit by a bus or flee into the night seeking whiskey and sin. I'd say Open Source has too much momentum for individual losses to make a large difference. This may well be Microsoft waking up and trying to do some ingesting a la IBM, but I doubt it's the apocalypse. Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:47:40 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:47:40 -0400 Subject: Blocking bad bots In-Reply-To: <42AF25A2.3000703-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> <42AF25A2.3000703@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <42AF264C.9030205@cheapersafer.com> My blog keeps getting hammered by this cursed Omni-Explorer bot http://spamhuntress.com/wiki/Omni-explorer I put 'deny from ip' entries in my httpd conf file and that seems to have backed it off for now - however I understand from the writeup that it will switch IP ranges within Hurricane Electrics blocks and user agents, so I suspect it will be back. Is there any way to stop it from doing its thing without just blocking all the IPs from Hurricane Electric? Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:41:10 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42AF228C.8010305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42AF228C.8010305@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > I wonder who owns the IP rights, when an MS employee develops software > on their own time? Depends on what sort of employment agreement they have to sign... but given that this is Chairman Bill's empire, I'd suspect that if you write *poetry* on your own time, never mind software, it belongs to them. :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:47:10 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:47:10 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42AF228C.8010305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614174737.81337.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> <42AF228C.8010305@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > E K wrote: >> The hiring by M$ can also stimulate OSS development. >> Some will still continue doing it for the principle, >> some for the love of it, some for the possibility at >> the end of the day. > > I wonder who owns the IP rights, when an MS employee develops software > on their own time? Never mind that. Who owns the programmer's *soul* while he works there ? And does he get it back when he leaves ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 18:56:28 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:56:28 -0400 Subject: Blocking bad bots In-Reply-To: <42AF264C.9030205-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> <42AF25A2.3000703@cheapersafer.com> <42AF264C.9030205@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <036E89A1-DD06-11D9-B44C-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Jun 14, 2005, at 2:47 PM, Rob Sutherland wrote: > Is there any way to stop it from doing its thing without just blocking > all the IPs from Hurricane Electric? I've had some very bad experience with trying to get HE to shut down spammers in the past, so I'm not sure why blocking all their addresses would be a bad thing. :-) Tempting would be to redirect all of their requests to a "tar pit": endless randomly generated links, pointing to randomly generated content, on a very slow connection. More practically, how about: ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 19:52:37 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:52:37 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian Message-ID: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I like starting X on my own. I don't need, or want, xdm or any of its fuzzy-headed brethren mediating my login experience. So I run "update-rc.d -f xdm remove" and all is well. Until I run an update (well, a dist-upgrade actually) on a core X component, and then I get graphical logins again until I Ctrl-Alt-Backspace three times to get back to a good clean console, and re-run my rc.d update script. I'd love to know why Debian believes that a) I want them to auto-f*** with my settings or b) that if I don't want xdm, then I don't want X. Does anyone have a suggestion to make this tiny, annoying detail go away? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 19:55:15 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:55:15 -0400 Subject: Anyone using a Wacom tablet? Message-ID: <20050614195515.GB8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I was hoping to get my Wacom tablet running under linux, but I have encountered some trouble. X receives input from the tablet, but something isn't right, because when the stylus is registering, the cursor spends all of it's time in the top-right corner of the screen. Is anyone using a tablet and have any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 20:00:47 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:00:47 -0400 Subject: Anyone using a Wacom tablet? In-Reply-To: <20050614195515.GB8279-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195515.GB8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 6/14/05, William O'Higgins wrote: > I was hoping to get my Wacom tablet running under linux, but I have > encountered some trouble. X receives input from the tablet, but > something isn't right, because when the stylus is registering, the > cursor spends all of it's time in the top-right corner of the screen. > Is anyone using a tablet and have any suggestions? Thanks. Yo! I've been there! :) There's a Linux-wacom project at sourceforge: http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net They have instructions on how to get it going (the "HOWTO (detailed)" link on the left). The problem so far as I understand it is that the default kernel wacom driver doesn't understand that it shouldn't interepret pen events as mouse events, and so it feeds garbage into /dev/input/mice. The wacom.ko driver from sourceforge understands this properly and will direct pen input only to the associated hid interface, not /dev/input/mice. Or you can point X directly at your actual mouse and actual tablet, and it will interpret things properly. Debian has packages for the wacom driver source. You can intall it, incant some magic Debian commands (which it will tell you about), and *BAM* you'll have kernel modules. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 20:19:42 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:19:42 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050614195237.GA8279-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050614201942.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 03:52:37PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I like starting X on my own. I don't need, or want, xdm or any of its > fuzzy-headed brethren mediating my login experience. So I run > "update-rc.d -f xdm remove" and all is well. Until I run an update > (well, a dist-upgrade actually) on a core X component, and then I get > graphical logins again until I Ctrl-Alt-Backspace three times to get > back to a good clean console, and re-run my rc.d update script. > > I'd love to know why Debian believes that a) I want them to auto-f*** > with my settings or b) that if I don't want xdm, then I don't want X. > Does anyone have a suggestion to make this tiny, annoying detail go > away? Thanks. The file /etc/X11/default-display-manager contains the name of which display manager you want. Setting it to 'true' or something else that is not gdm/kdm/xdm will make none of them start. of course the official debian policy on it is, don't install it if you don't want it, although the package is supposed to leave your links alone as far as I know, although I must admit they never seem to stay put when I change them either. I guess using update-rc.d correctly is tricky. Perhaps deleting the links is the wrong thing to do, while changing start to stop in each run level may be the right way to do it. If course if you never intend to start xxdm manually, just uninstall it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 20:47:52 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:47:52 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42AF09A6.9020505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> <42AF09A6.9020505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/14/05, James Knott wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: > > On 6/14/05, James Knott wrote: > > >>Also, he developed his BASIC on Harvard computers, despite a prohibition > >>on using those computers for commercial purposes. In short, he stole > >>other people's code, stole computer time, and then tried to keep > >>everything for himself. Hardly open source. > > > > I'm not as familiar with how the code was developed, however, > > university is a place for learning, and it could be that his work > > could have morphed into some kind of undergraduate project. > > > > This raises an interesting question .. did Hardvard ever go after > > young Mr. Gates for compensation if it was proven that he used the > > computers to develop his Altair BASIC? > > I read about this in a book about the history of modern computers. > IIRC, Harvard didn't do anything, other than tighten up their policies. > Also, as I recall, he started work on BASIC, after he promised it to Ed > Roberts at Altair. Also, at that time BASIC was a teaching language and > the source would have been available to students. I wonder how much of > that was "borrowed" by Sir Billy? Back in those days, source code was > routinely made available. It is not at all obvious that the source code for language compilers was "routinely made available," certainly not for the mainframe-based timesharing systems commonly used back in those days. When I used sundry FORTRAN compilers on VM/CMS, I never had access to source code, whether I was working with FORTH (IBM's "version H") or WATFOR (the WatCom compiler typically used by students because it didn't do so much optimizing and thus ran faster). And the early BASIC compilers out of Dartmouth were unlikely to be available in source code form. Furthermore, there wouldn't be much for Billy to get out of a Dartmouth compiler when he was writing what amounted to a bytecode interpreter for a completely different language. The "Micro Soft Level 1 BASIC" bears about as much resemblance to the BASIC of Kemeny and Kurtz as a some first-year student's hack of a Scheme implementation written in Awk would to a full ANSI Common LISP implementation There were, in general terms, three versions of Microsoft's BASICs, back in those days... There was "Level 1", which was exceedingly primitive. Level 2 was what a lot of people started programming with whether on TRS-80s, Apples, or IBM PCs. Level 3 had some "holy grail" stuff going on, but wasn't available in time to be interesting... At any rate, Microsoft's versions of BASIC were long interpreted, not compiled, and were never nearly compatible with any of the ANSI standards, which would make it highly unlikely that there would have been any useful code to be had from a Dartmouth compiler... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 21:03:14 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:03:14 -0400 Subject: Fwd:Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <22318ee505061411266c61226f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/14/05, marius wrote: > On 6/14/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, bob wrote: > > > > > This new "hire and silence" strategy on the part of Microsoft actually > > > stands a good chance of slowing the open source movement. In reality it > > > > I don't think so. OSS is developed by tens of thousands of dedicated > > developers and the number is growing rapidly. MS is only picking up a few > > of the more famous people (and even then only a small minority). I don't > > see their hiring efforts having any effect on the growth of OSS. > > Judging by the number of orphans on SourceForge, losing one or two key > developers is enough to slow or shut down an OSS project. I wouldn't judge SF that way... The situation with SF is that there are enormous numbers of projects there that are nothing more than the wishful thinking of the one or two "would-be project leaders." There are plenty of projects that never were vital to anyone. > It's true that most large projects have dozens of developers with > potential replacements eagerly waiting in the wings, however most OSS > projects are run by a handful of people. It is likely that most projects *ought* to be able to be run by a handful of people. Those that have huge 'body counts' are more likely to fall prey to the "Mythical Man Month" problem observed by Fred Brooks. The more people you have, the greater the communications costs, and the less work gets done. > > I disagree. Everytime someone becomes less active in OSS (and it happens) > > they are replaced. The OSS movement can survive the loss of any of its > > key members, or a many of them. > > Has anyone stepped up to maintain any of JWZ's projects since he very > publicly ditched Linux for OS X and announced "not to hold your breath > for new releases" of the software he wrote/maintained? What has he been responsible for that is of wide interest beyond XScreensaver? - XScreensaver had a release a couple months ago, which presumably means there are now enough modules that I should expect to see a repeat more than once every year or two. - He hasn't been maintaining BBDB since 1995... - xkeycaps hasn't been maintained since 1999... He had an web-based MP3 player; there are plenty of others to choose from. If any of it mattered (XScreensaver doubtless does), then people would indeed step up as they care about it. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 22:02:05 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> <42AF09A6.9020505@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | There were, in general terms, three versions of Microsoft's BASICs, | back in those days... There was "Level 1", which was exceedingly | primitive. Level 2 was what a lot of people started programming with | whether on TRS-80s, Apples, or IBM PCs. Level 3 had some "holy grail" | stuff going on, but wasn't available in time to be interesting... Actually, for the Altair, it came in 4K and 8k versions, if my memory isn't failing me. 8k was normal, 4k was stripped to fit in more affordable configurations. Remember, the Altair base memory was 128 bytes. Memory cost a lot. Generally static RAM, too! My Altair has 64K (but 16K is disabled to allow some address space for my EPROM). I have a (legal, I think) copy of the 8k Micro Soft BASIC on paper tape. I've not owned a paper tape reader and an Altair simultaneously, so I've not tried the tape. I'm actually more impressed by the PDP-8 LISP that I have in paper tape. It fits runs in 4K 12-bit words, of which half are occupied by the interpreter and the rest are available for list space. I guess reading these tapes by eye might actually be practical. I've been too lazy so far. Besides, I don't think I'd do anything with them anyway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 14 22:35:58 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm actually more impressed by the PDP-8 LISP that I have in paper > tape... > I guess reading these tapes by eye might actually be practical. The modern way to read them, obviously, is to *scan* them (against a background sheet of contrasting color) -- 25cm at a time if you don't want to cut them up -- and process the images to recover the bits. Probably wouldn't even be terribly hard, actually. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 01:49:46 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:49:46 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: <42AECD56.7010400-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> <42AECD56.7010400@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42AF893A.6060204@alteeve.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with a >>sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be >>displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file. > > > I have to ask -- is it ever really useful to present the user with this > much data? It does sound like you're testing a slightly unusual option > on your software. Even so, what user could make sense of even a tenth of > this output? > > It might be better to use some kind of data pager (there are Perl > modules that will handle paging through query results with little extra > programming effort). You could represent the data some other way (a > tree?) to let the user drill down to see what they're interested in. > > I don't think we can expect HTML to implement proper text tabulation any > time soon. The time for that was HTML 2.0, or earlier. What it has is > meant for small display tables, not thousands of lines of results. > > cheers, > Stewart It is a stress-test case... The situation arises what the user has many, many directories all opened in the file browser. In my test case, all ~26,000 directories from my sample partition have been selected for display. Currently I am experiementing with a javascipt app that would, at the very least, require only a single load of the directory tree. Currently Each time the directory branch is expanded or contracted the data is re-read from the database and redrawn. Waiting ~one minute on my (modest) test machine to load 26k directories once I can live with. Taking that long every time a single branch is expanded or contracted though is less tolerable. I am hoping I can intregrate this tree app I have to serve my purpose and if I can I will live with the current initial load time on one minute. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 01:54:28 2005 From: anarcap-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (marius) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:54:28 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: <20050614154737.7A7021D0E16@outbox.allstream.net> <22318ee505061411266c61226f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22318ee505061418542b7e2038@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/05, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 6/14/05, marius wrote: > > On 6/14/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, bob wrote: > > > > Judging by the number of orphans on SourceForge, losing one or two key > > developers is enough to slow or shut down an OSS project. > > I wouldn't judge SF that way... > > The situation with SF is that there are enormous numbers of projects > there that are nothing more than the wishful thinking of the one or > two "would-be project leaders." > > There are plenty of projects that never were vital to anyone. You're pretty much dead-on. I've tried contributing to a couple of SF projects (as much as I cold do with my skill-set) but it's very hard to get excited about a project that even the so-called "project leaders" weren't all that gung-ho about. //mts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 02:02:44 2005 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:02:44 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage In-Reply-To: References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200506142202.44330.anton@truxtar.com> On Tuesday 14 June 2005 02:00, Peter wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have problem with my program that I am wondering if a work-around > > exists for. > > > > I am stress-testing my backup program now and I've noticed that with a > > sample partition with ~26,000 directories when they are all set to be > > displayed it creates a ~1.5MB html file. I am running the program on the > > same machine that the browser is running on so bandwidth shouldn't be the > > issue (it's all via 'localhost:853'). > > > > When I send the output to a text file (the log) instead of the the > > browser the page "loads" in a few seconds. This should mean then that the > > code itself is not the source of the bottle neck. When I send the output > > to the browser though Mozilla jumps to 100% CPU usage and it take a very > > long time (minutes) to load the same data. > > > > Is the browser taking time because of the render time (each directory > > creates a cell in a table)? Is it latency somewhere else (TCP/IP)? Any > > hints/tips would be great! > > Make sure your html file has perfect syntax (lint the page using a > validator) and add the header Connection: close to the server response > headers. > Once you make your syntax perfect, be sure to add a DOCTYPE to your HTML output (preferably something like XHTML 1.0 Strict). This will tell smart browsers like Firefox to not try and work around possible mistakes. Another option you should test is not using tables at all. I don't know about the performance of very large pages, but CSS _may_ be faster then tables (although it could also depend on the browser). -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 02:56:33 2005 From: jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jian (James) Zhou) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:56:33 -0400 Subject: Large html pages and slow load times/high CPU usage References: <42ADF651.7010304@alteeve.com> <42AECD56.7010400@sympatico.ca> <42AF893A.6060204@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > > Madison Kelly wrote: > It is a stress-test case... The situation arises what the user has many, > many directories all opened in the file browser. In my test case, all > ~26,000 directories from my sample partition have been selected for > display. Currently I am experiementing with a javascipt app that would, > at the very least, require only a single load of the directory tree. > > Currently Each time the directory branch is expanded or contracted the > data is re-read from the database and redrawn. Waiting ~one minute on my > (modest) test machine to load 26k directories once I can live with. > Taking that long every time a single branch is expanded or contracted > though is less tolerable. I am hoping I can intregrate this tree app I > have to serve my purpose and if I can I will live with the current > initial load time on one minute. > > Madison > Just a few thoughts, and not sure if this is going to work or not. Since you mentioned that it is very fast for some system programs to export the list to a log file, I guess maybe you can customize your own executable file, and use it like a CGI. Suppose this program can dump the list and export an HTML file in your temporal directory, then you can call this external command from your script (such as PHP) directly and after that load the exported static file. I believe loading a static file won't take that long. Jian (James) Zhou http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~jzhou -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 02:57:43 2005 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:57:43 -0400 Subject: getting xargs and mail to play nicely Message-ID: <20050615025743.GA20078@oz.utoronto.ca> I want to do a (legitimate!) mailing of a single message to several recipients, and I'd like each to be the sole recipient specified in the email -- so no multiple addresses, cc, bcc, or suchlike. I have the recipients' addresses in a single text file, with one address per line in the file. How can I do a "mass mailing"? Why xargs, I thought, just grep through the address file and feed it to mail, and redirect the message: % grep @ addressfile | xargs -n1 mail -s SUBJECT < messagefile But this doesn't work: mail tries to take addresses from messagefile, not from addressfile. If I leave off the messagefile, then I send nice cheerful null emails to each person listed in addressfile. What am I missing here? Sorry to be clueless! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 03:15:29 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: getting xargs and mail to play nicely In-Reply-To: <20050615025743.GA20078-fC5X+HKovvVctjzGqDOVaw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050615025743.GA20078@oz.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Peter King wrote: > I want to do a (legitimate!) mailing of a single message to several > recipients, and I'd like each to be the sole recipient specified in > the email -- so no multiple addresses, cc, bcc, or suchlike. I have > the recipients' addresses in a single text file, with one address per > line in the file. > > How can I do a "mass mailing"? > > Why xargs, I thought, just grep through the address file and feed it > to mail, and redirect the message: > > % grep @ addressfile | xargs -n1 mail -s SUBJECT < messagefile > > But this doesn't work: mail tries to take addresses from messagefile, > not from addressfile. If I leave off the messagefile, then I send nice > cheerful null emails to each person listed in addressfile. grep @ addressfile | while read addr do mail -s SUBJECT "$addr" < messagefile done -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 07:28:27 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:28:27 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I'm actually more impressed by the PDP-8 LISP that I have in paper >> tape... >> I guess reading these tapes by eye might actually be practical. > > The modern way to read them, obviously, is to *scan* them (against a > background sheet of contrasting color) -- 25cm at a time if you don't want > to cut them up -- and process the images to recover the bits. Probably > wouldn't even be terribly hard, actually. Unless you have registration errors on a long run of undistinguishable data (01010...) It is trivial to build a slow reader using a parallel port interface a stepper and some optoelectronic parts. I wanted to make such a device but I do not have an incentive (not owning any paper tape). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 12:33:43 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:33:43 -0400 Subject: Anyone using a Wacom tablet? Message-ID: You may want to try a man xorg.conf because it sounds as though the device itself has registered with the kernel; however, quite often, different input devices (ex. not 'mouse' driver or a different protocol) require some tweaking, especially if there are two input devices used at the same time (i.e. usb mouse & touchpad or something). try http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/ Ciao, ~/Chris >>> william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org 6/14/05 3:55:15 pm >>> I was hoping to get my Wacom tablet running under linux, but I have encountered some trouble. X receives input from the tablet, but something isn't right, because when the stylus is registering, the cursor spends all of it's time in the top-right corner of the screen. Is anyone using a tablet and have any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:14:24 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:14:24 -0400 Subject: getting xargs and mail to play nicely In-Reply-To: <20050615025743.GA20078-fC5X+HKovvVctjzGqDOVaw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050615025743.GA20078@oz.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050615131424.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 10:57:43PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I want to do a (legitimate!) mailing of a single message to several > recipients, and I'd like each to be the sole recipient specified in > the email -- so no multiple addresses, cc, bcc, or suchlike. I have > the recipients' addresses in a single text file, with one address per > line in the file. > > How can I do a "mass mailing"? > > Why xargs, I thought, just grep through the address file and feed it > to mail, and redirect the message: > > % grep @ addressfile | xargs -n1 mail -s SUBJECT < messagefile > > But this doesn't work: mail tries to take addresses from messagefile, > not from addressfile. If I leave off the messagefile, then I send nice > cheerful null emails to each person listed in addressfile. > > What am I missing here? Sorry to be clueless! when you do a | b < c where is stdin for b coming from? a or c? you wanted mail to use c as stdin, but that's not what bash does. bash gives it to the command (xargs in this case) that it follows apparently overriding the fact you are trying to pipe something to stdin. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:15:23 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:15:23 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050614195237.GA8279-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:52:37 -0400 William O'Higgins wrote: > I like starting X on my own. I don't need, or want, xdm or any of its > fuzzy-headed brethren mediating my login experience. So I run > "update-rc.d -f xdm remove" and all is well. Until I run an update > (well, a dist-upgrade actually) on a core X component, and then I get > graphical logins again until I Ctrl-Alt-Backspace three times to get > back to a good clean console, and re-run my rc.d update script. > > I'd love to know why Debian believes that a) I want them to auto-f*** > with my settings or b) that if I don't want xdm, then I don't want X. > Does anyone have a suggestion to make this tiny, annoying detail go > away? Thanks. > -- William, Your init level is probably controlled by /etc/inittab. On my Red Hat system, the line is "id:5:initdefault:", with 5 being the initialization level. This brings up the X Window System. If you change this to 3, you do not get the X Window System. Would Debian change this? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:40:34 2005 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:40:34 -0400 Subject: getting xargs and mail to play nicely In-Reply-To: References: <20050615025743.GA20078@oz.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050615134033.GA20461@oz.utoronto.ca> Several solutions were proposed to my original inquiry; all of them work, and none of them use xargs -- which I suppose is therefore the wrong tool for the job. The solutions were of two types: those that used a shell looping construct (either "while" or "for"), in a script or on an ugly command-line, and those from Jim Prior that used sed and awk. The first type of solution, in a shell script: [1] grep @ addressfile | while read addr do mail -s SUBJECT "$addr" < message done Grepping allows all sorts of comments etc. in the addressfile; clearly we could declare variables for $subject, $message, and get some measure of generality. [2] For those fluent in sed/awk, here are Jim's solutions: grep @ addressfile | sed -e 's/^/mail -s SUBJECT /' -e 's/$/ From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:45:27 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:45:27 -0400 Subject: open source project looking for GUI (Tcl/Tk) developers Message-ID: <20050615134508.5F3131EC33F@outbox.allstream.net> The IO Anywhere library project (https://sourceforge.net/projects/ioanywhere) is creating an LGPL'd library to interface with the very capable IO Anywhere network appliance. The effort has been underway for a year or so and much has been accomplished ... although much still needs to be done. As you may well know the IO Anywhere network appliance (http://www.io-anywhere.ca) comes with a very capable built in web interface. They even maintain one online which allows us to play with it. While this web interface facilitates remote device configuration it only affords a limited amount of real time data capturing/logging capabilities. For those capabilites we propose to create a set of stand alone Tcl/Tk applications which use the Tcl/Tk portion of the LGPL'd library and SIMPL messaging to interface to the IO Anywhere network appliance. This subproject effort is just getting underway and a number of screen shots of the proposed Tcl/Tk interface have been created and placed under CVS. We would welcome Tcl/Tk developers of all experience levels who would like to hone their Tcl/Tk skills on an interesting piece of work. bob PS. The quickest way to join up with this effort is to subscribe to the project mailing list by sending a blank email directly to ioanywhere-subscribe[atnospam]yahoogroups.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:44:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:44:47 -0400 Subject: getting xargs and mail to play nicely In-Reply-To: <20050615134033.GA20461-fC5X+HKovvVctjzGqDOVaw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050615025743.GA20078@oz.utoronto.ca> <20050615134033.GA20461@oz.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050615134447.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:40:34AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Several solutions were proposed to my original inquiry; all of them > work, and none of them use xargs -- which I suppose is therefore the > wrong tool for the job. > > The solutions were of two types: those that used a shell looping construct > (either "while" or "for"), in a script or on an ugly command-line, and > those from Jim Prior that used sed and awk. > > The first type of solution, in a shell script: > > [1] grep @ addressfile | > while read addr > do > mail -s SUBJECT "$addr" < message > done > > Grepping allows all sorts of comments etc. in the addressfile; clearly we > could declare variables for $subject, $message, and get some measure of > generality. > > [2] For those fluent in sed/awk, here are Jim's solutions: > > grep @ addressfile | sed -e 's/^/mail -s SUBJECT /' -e 's/$/ > grep @ addressfile | sed -e 's/^/mail -s SUBJECT '\''/' -e 's/$/'\'' > grep @ addressfile | awk '{print "mail -s SUBJECT '\''"$0"'\'' > These are clever ways of getting the right invocations of mail, one per line, > sent to bash. > > I'm inclined to think solutions of the first sort are "better" in that they > require invoking grep and mail for each line of the addressfile, whereas the > second sort requires invoking grep, sed/awk, and mail. But all this is in shell > and quick-n-dirty in the first place, so the efficiency gain doesn't matter. > > Thanks to all who responded! My instincts to use xargs -- not one of the more > common commands -- were awry. It was a good idea, if it wasn't for the fact mail requires using stdin, which is something xargs doesn't let you do easily. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:46:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:46:48 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20050615134648.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:15:23AM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > William, > > Your init level is probably controlled by /etc/inittab. > > On my Red Hat system, the line is "id:5:initdefault:", with 5 being the initialization level. This brings up the X Window System. If you change this to 3, you do not get the X Window System. > > Would Debian change this? The Debian policy is: The user decides what runlevels mean, and by default they are mostly all the same. xdm/kdm/gdm (whichever is the current enabled default, if any) starts in all runlevels (2-5). That is one of the things Debian breaks in LSB support. LSB mandantes the RedHat init level meanings, and Debian won't support that since it's considered a step backwards from letting the admin do what they want. Besides what business do LSB applications have knowing what each runlevel means. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:52:49 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:52:49 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: <42AEFE95.4020408@rogers.com> <42AF09A6.9020505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42B032B1.2030804@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > | There were, in general terms, three versions of Microsoft's BASICs, > | back in those days... There was "Level 1", which was exceedingly > | primitive. Level 2 was what a lot of people started programming with > | whether on TRS-80s, Apples, or IBM PCs. Level 3 had some "holy grail" > | stuff going on, but wasn't available in time to be interesting... > > Actually, for the Altair, it came in 4K and 8k versions, if my memory > isn't failing me. 8k was normal, 4k was stripped to fit in more > affordable configurations. Remember, the Altair base memory was 128 > bytes. Memory cost a lot. Generally static RAM, too! > > My Altair has 64K (but 16K is disabled to allow some address space for > my EPROM). My IMSAI didn't come with any memory. I had to buy a 16K board & 4KB of memory, before I could do anything. > > I have a (legal, I think) copy of the 8k Micro Soft BASIC on paper > tape. I've not owned a paper tape reader and an Altair > simultaneously, so I've not tried the tape. I had a BASIC tape that came from somewhere that I don't recall (Processor Techology?). I used SCELBAL from Scelbi, for my BASIC interpreter. > > I'm actually more impressed by the PDP-8 LISP that I have in paper > tape. It fits runs in 4K 12-bit words, of which half are occupied by > the interpreter and the rest are available for list space. > > I guess reading these tapes by eye might actually be practical. I've > been too lazy so far. Besides, I don't think I'd do anything with > them anyway. I had to be able to read both 5 & 8 level tape, as part of my job, back in the '70s. I think I've still got my paper tape gauge here somewhere (it was used to make sure the hole spacing was correct). I eventually bought a surplus M35 ASR from my employer, which I used with my IMSAI, though I generally used cassettes, instead of paper tape. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 13:59:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:59:35 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B03447.8040602@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>I'm actually more impressed by the PDP-8 LISP that I have in paper >>tape... >>I guess reading these tapes by eye might actually be practical. > > The modern way to read them, obviously, is to *scan* them (against a > background sheet of contrasting color) -- 25cm at a time if you don't want > to cut them up -- and process the images to recover the bits. Probably > wouldn't even be terribly hard, actually. Anyone here remember the Oliver Audio Engineering paper tape readers? They were sold as a kit and were mechanically quite simple. The tape had to be pulled through by hand. They sold for about $75, IIRC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:03:37 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:03:37 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20050615140337.GA2423@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:15:23AM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > Your init level is probably controlled by /etc/inittab. Yup. > On my Red Hat system, the line is "id:5:initdefault:", with 5 being > the initialization level. This brings up the X Window System. If you > change this to 3, you do not get the X Window System. I am using runlevel 3, but it's a good suggestion. > Would Debian change this? No, but it was getting confused by the information in /etc/X11/default-display-manager as Lennart suggested. So my problem is essentially solved, although I do find it frustrating that if I say "apt-get remove xdm" it will uninstall the x-window-system as well. I love apt, and it has rarely given me any cause for complaints (and it makes all of my Windoze-using friends insane with jealousy), but this is like throwing out my bike with my broken bike pump - silly. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:22:52 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: <42B03447.8040602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42B03447.8040602@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: > Anyone here remember the Oliver Audio Engineering paper tape readers? > They were sold as a kit and were mechanically quite simple. The tape > had to be pulled through by hand. They sold for about $75, IIRC. The only problem, if I recall correctly, was that they did their timing using the sprocket holes in the tape... so a missing or mispunched sprocket hole was big trouble, whereas a tape reader with mechanical feed wasn't troubled by it. (And yes, I have seen tape punches which would occasionally omit a sprocket hole.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:30:32 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:30:32 -0400 Subject: open source project looking for GUI (Tcl/Tk) developers In-Reply-To: <20050615134508.5F3131EC33F-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050615134508.5F3131EC33F@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <1118845831.15260.311.camel@holden.weait.net> On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 09:45, bob wrote: [snip] > As you may well know the IO Anywhere network appliance > (http://www.io-anywhere.ca) comes with a very capable built in web > interface. They even maintain one online which allows us to play with it. This poster, Bob and his colleague Graham, gave a presentation of the IO Anywhere devices to the KWLUG a few months ago. Interesting presentation and cool hardware. If enough of the GTALUG members are into cool embedded devices you should ask them to present. Or, you know, check out his code and help with the project like he asked. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:34:44 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:34:44 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050615140337.GA2423-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson@eol.ca> <20050615140337.GA2423@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050615143444.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 10:03:37AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > No, but it was getting confused by the information in > /etc/X11/default-display-manager as Lennart suggested. So my problem is > essentially solved, although I do find it frustrating that if I say > "apt-get remove xdm" it will uninstall the x-window-system as well. I > love apt, and it has rarely given me any cause for complaints (and it > makes all of my Windoze-using friends insane with jealousy), but this is > like throwing out my bike with my broken bike pump - silly. x-window-system is just a convinience meta package that depends on most parts of X including things like xdm. You can just let it remove that, since it won't remove the things it depended on. I personally don't think xdm should necesarily have been part of that package, but someone thought it should so it is. Maybe x-window-system-core is a better package to use although I don't think it depends on all the fonts. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:37:39 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:37:39 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft Dinner - Introduction to PHP Message-ID: <1118846260.3510.14.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> This month's PegaSoft dinner meeting will be held On: Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 7:00 pm At: TBA - someplace near the Islington subway stop. We were having problems with the noise level at Orwell's Pub. Topic: Ken Burtch will present an introduction to PHP. Attendance is free and open to anyone who is interested. To attend, send your RSVP to Mel Wilson at his email address at http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html. PegaSoft Canada is an association of Linux professionals based in Toronto, Canada. PegaSoft members meet at regular dinner meetings to discuss the latest trends and opportunities in Linux and work together to develop great new Linux software. Our goal is to act both as a programmer resource and to promote projects developed by our members. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 Author "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Fax: 905-562-0848 http://www.pegasoft.ca Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 14:31:34 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:31:34 -0400 Subject: xdm updates and Debian In-Reply-To: <20050615140337.GA2423-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050614195237.GA8279@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050615091523.1eda4095.hgibson@eol.ca> <20050615140337.GA2423@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William O'Higgins wrote: > On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:15:23AM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > > > No, but it was getting confused by the information in > /etc/X11/default-display-manager as Lennart suggested. So my problem is > essentially solved, although I do find it frustrating that if I say > "apt-get remove xdm" it will uninstall the x-window-system as well. I > love apt, and it has rarely given me any cause for complaints (and it > makes all of my Windoze-using friends insane with jealousy), but this is > like throwing out my bike with my broken bike pump - silly. How about an xdm.deb that you can install with dpkg? Haven't tried this but if it is the proper version you should be able to remove it with dpkg after you install it no? http://www.tuxfinder.com/packages/search.php?name=xdm&DEB=on&nodesc=1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 15:29:09 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:29:09 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B04945.2070303@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > It is trivial to build a slow reader using a parallel port interface a > stepper and some optoelectronic parts. I wanted to make such a device > but I do not have an incentive (not owning any paper tape). A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, a company named Oliver Audio Engineer produced such a tape reader. It was essentially a small circuit board, with sensors that connected to a parallel port. There were wire guides, used to keep the tape aligned, as the user manually pulled it through. At work, we had some tape readers, that used a rubber roller to pull the tape through at high speed and a clamp, which was used to stop the tape. There was also one, made by a company called "Facit", which used a stepper motor. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 15:40:23 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:40:23 -0400 Subject: Daniel Robbins hired by M$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B04BE7.1020504@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, James Knott wrote: >>Anyone here remember the Oliver Audio Engineering paper tape readers? >>They were sold as a kit and were mechanically quite simple. The tape >>had to be pulled through by hand. They sold for about $75, IIRC. > > The only problem, if I recall correctly, was that they did their timing > using the sprocket holes in the tape... so a missing or mispunched > sprocket hole was big trouble, whereas a tape reader with mechanical feed > wasn't troubled by it. (And yes, I have seen tape punches which would > occasionally omit a sprocket hole.) Me too. I used to have to repair them. Years ago, at the old Toronto Stock Exchange, there were these Teletype Corp "DRPE" high speed punches, which used an electromagnet operated resonant reed, to move the punch pins. I had to adjust them to punch a clean hole, without staying in the tape path long enough to snag the tape. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 16:18:16 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:18:16 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 Message-ID: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> tlug, I have this relic and would like to make it useful in some way. It is 120Mhz, with 40 MB and a 1.35GB drive. There is no CDROM and I haven't had any luck finding one. I was able to acquire a docking station for it which has two bays. One bay provides a second floppy device and there is room for a CDROM. The docking station also provides a network device. I have made some progress so far. I used a Slackware bareapm.i bootdisk to install a 2.2 kernel and a few packages over NFS. It can now be booted on its own and I have full network functionality (lynx, ftp, ssh). The machine has gcc 2.95.3 and 350 MB free on an ext3 file system. I gave it 130 MB swap. Is it at all possible to bring this old thing to a 2.6 on its own one build at a time? I'm just a regular RPM guy and am not sure how to proceed with all this MAKE stuff. In other words, if it can be done do I start by building a new kernel and then the compiler and glibc? There must be a method to this kind of madness. Thanks, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 16:27:09 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:27:09 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B054C8.6010607-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050615162709.GA2094@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 12:18:16PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I have made some progress so far. I used a Slackware bareapm.i bootdisk If you made this far with 2.4, then you should have no problem with 2.6. This aspect, at least, is not kernel dependent. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 16:41:02 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:41:02 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B054C8.6010607-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050615164102.GB7799@sophocles> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 12:18:16PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I have this relic and would like to make it useful in some way. It is > 120Mhz, with 40 MB and a 1.35GB drive. There is no CDROM and I haven't > had any luck finding one. I was able to acquire a docking station for it > which has two bays. One bay provides a second floppy device and there is > room for a CDROM. The docking station also provides a network device. That "relic" can still be useful, and is more powerful than the laptop that I carry around. > I have made some progress so far. I used a Slackware bareapm.i bootdisk > to install a 2.2 kernel and a few packages over NFS. It can now be > booted on its own and I have full network functionality (lynx, ftp, > ssh). The machine has gcc 2.95.3 and 350 MB free on an ext3 file system. > I gave it 130 MB swap. I probably would've given it a bit less swap and left a bit more for the main partitions. > Is it at all possible to bring this old thing to a 2.6 on its own one > build at a time? I'm just a regular RPM guy and am not sure how to > proceed with all this MAKE stuff. In other words, if it can be done do I > start by building a new kernel and then the compiler and glibc? There > must be a method to this kind of madness. If at all possible, I would recommend doing the compiles on another computer. They can be done on it, but when the kernel takes 3+ hours to build (could be less, estimating from 2.4 on a P100 with 16MB RAM), gcc and glibc taking a very large amount of time and space for their builds, and the fact that 350MB is probably not enough space for some of these source trees, it will be painful and quite possibly require the use of the likes of NFS (eg. LFS states that a recent glibc will require > 700MB for the source and build). If you really want to go the build- everything-from-source route, you can, but plan ahead. Linux From Scratch would be a useful reference in terms of the ordering and hardware requirements of the compiles if you do the build on the P120. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 21:22:58 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:22:58 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B054C8.6010607-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 12:18:16PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I have this relic and would like to make it useful in some way. It is > 120Mhz, with 40 MB and a 1.35GB drive. There is no CDROM and I haven't > had any luck finding one. I was able to acquire a docking station for it > which has two bays. One bay provides a second floppy device and there is > room for a CDROM. The docking station also provides a network device. > > I have made some progress so far. I used a Slackware bareapm.i bootdisk > to install a 2.2 kernel and a few packages over NFS. It can now be > booted on its own and I have full network functionality (lynx, ftp, > ssh). The machine has gcc 2.95.3 and 350 MB free on an ext3 file system. > I gave it 130 MB swap. > > Is it at all possible to bring this old thing to a 2.6 on its own one > build at a time? I'm just a regular RPM guy and am not sure how to > proceed with all this MAKE stuff. In other words, if it can be done do I > start by building a new kernel and then the compiler and glibc? There > must be a method to this kind of madness. You could just go install Debian on it. I run Debian on a 486/66 with 48M ram and you can certainly easily fit in 1.3G. It even comes with a 2.6 kernel so you don't have to go compile anything. Debian still supports 386's although through some kernel instruction emulation caused by glibc 2.3 requirements of 486 or better processors. You can install debian as long as you have a network connection and a floppy drive, and can start the netinstall using the boot, root and net floppy images. The rest it can get over the network link. I have done that method before. A cdrom install is simpler (slightly), but if you don't have a cdrom drive, that doesn't help. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 15 23:52:22 2005 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:52:22 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft Dinner - Introduction to PHP References: <1118846260.3510.14.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <28LsCls/KrxQ089yn@the-wire.com> In article <1118846260.3510.14.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>, Ken Burtch wrote: >This month's PegaSoft dinner meeting will be held > > On: Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 7:00 pm > At: TBA - someplace near the Islington subway stop. We were having >problems with the noise level at Orwell's Pub. > Topic: Ken Burtch will present an introduction to PHP. Location will be The Office Bar and Grill, 3313 Bloor St. W. Three blocks east of Islington. >Attendance is free and open to anyone who is interested. To attend, >send your RSVP to Mel Wilson at his email address at >http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 01:00:57 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:00:57 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. Message-ID: Hello all. I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a car is going to this seminar. If not, would anyone who has a clue how I could get there please respond off-list at : right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Thank you in advance. Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 01:07:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:07:10 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B0D0BE.9080001@rogers.com> Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Hello all. > > I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a car is going to > this seminar. > > If not, would anyone who has a clue how I could get there please respond > off-list at : > > right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org It might help if you mentioned where you're located. I doubt there'll be many of us driving from the UK. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 01:42:46 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:42:46 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <42B0D0BE.9080001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42B0D0BE.9080001@rogers.com> Message-ID: Sorry about that. This is the Greater Toronto Area LUG, it never occured to me that someone from the UK might be subscribed. The event is taking place at the following address : Toronto Congress Centre 650 Dixon Road Toronto, ON M9W 1J1 Signed. Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of James Knott Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:07 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Hello all. > > I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a car is going to > this seminar. > > If not, would anyone who has a clue how I could get there please respond > off-list at : > > right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org It might help if you mentioned where you're located. I doubt there'll be many of us driving from the UK. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 01:56:07 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:56:07 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B0DC37.9010103@rogers.com> Yes, I know where it is. My question is where are you located? It's hard to offer a ride to someone, if you don't know where they are. For example, someone living in Oakville, is not likely to offer a ride to someone in Scarborough. p.s. I thought you were the one with the UK e-mail address. Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Sorry about that. This is the Greater Toronto Area LUG, it never occured to > me that > someone from the UK might be subscribed. > > The event is taking place at the following address : > > Toronto Congress Centre > 650 Dixon Road > Toronto, ON M9W 1J1 > > Signed. > Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:07 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. > > > Amos H. Weatherill wrote: >>Hello all. >> >>I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a car is going to >>this seminar. >> >>If not, would anyone who has a clue how I could get there please respond >>off-list at : >> >>right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org > > It might help if you mentioned where you're located. I doubt there'll > be many of us driving from the UK. ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 02:09:34 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:09:34 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <42B0DC37.9010103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42B0DC37.9010103@rogers.com> Message-ID: Again, sorry for the confusion. I am located in Central Toronto. My address is 163 Broadview Ave. However, I can get to a more convenient location if that would be a problem. The nearest cross streets are Broadview and Queen or Broadview and Dundas. Are you going to the Seminar? Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of James Knott Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:56 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. Yes, I know where it is. My question is where are you located? It's hard to offer a ride to someone, if you don't know where they are. For example, someone living in Oakville, is not likely to offer a ride to someone in Scarborough. p.s. I thought you were the one with the UK e-mail address. Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Sorry about that. This is the Greater Toronto Area LUG, it never occured to > me that > someone from the UK might be subscribed. > > The event is taking place at the following address : > > Toronto Congress Centre > 650 Dixon Road > Toronto, ON M9W 1J1 > > Signed. > Amos "The Compudoc" Weatherill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:07 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. > > > Amos H. Weatherill wrote: >>Hello all. >> >>I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a car is going to >>this seminar. >> >>If not, would anyone who has a clue how I could get there please respond >>off-list at : >> >>right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org > > It might help if you mentioned where you're located. I doubt there'll > be many of us driving from the UK. ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 02:35:25 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:35:25 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B0E56D.50001@rogers.com> Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Again, sorry for the confusion. > > I am located in Central Toronto. My address is 163 Broadview Ave. However, > I can get to a more convenient location if that would be a problem. > > The nearest cross streets are Broadview and Queen or Broadview and Dundas. > > Are you going to the Seminar? Yes, but I'm coming from Mississauga. If you can't get a ride, there is the TTC, which runs right by there. Also, are you going to the morning or afternoon session? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 03:00:49 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:00:49 -0400 Subject: Free Computers on Friday (plus other stuff) Message-ID: <001801c5721f$999bbbc0$5001a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Some of the warehouse space where I work has been rented out to a movie company, so we need to downsize. We will be getting rid of stuff that well, is basically we give it away or we will have to pay a dumpster firm to haul it away. Now the final list of what is to be given away has NOT been not been done yet, but I do know it will contain: - Several 680x0 Macs (not tested, some may not be working). - Some PC desks (you will need a van/truck if you want one of these). - Some kitchen stuff (bottles, etc.) - Some kids toys The items will be done on a first come/first serve basis, come and take it away. The give away will happen at 169 Eastern Ave. (near King St. East and River), Friday June 17th between 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM. Now, it is a good idea to see Linux on more than one platform. Granted, a 680x0 Mac would not be my first (or even my 2nd, 3rd of 4th) pick for an alternate Linux platform, but at this price (free) for anyone on a tight budget and some time on their hands it is a good deal. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 03:06:03 2005 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Steve =?iso-8859-1?Q?=C5?=) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:06:03 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <42B0E56D.50001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42B0E56D.50001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050616030603.GA25566@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 10:35:25PM -0400 or thereabouts, James Knott wrote: > Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > > Again, sorry for the confusion. > > > > I am located in Central Toronto. My address is 163 Broadview Ave. However, > > I can get to a more convenient location if that would be a problem. > > > > The nearest cross streets are Broadview and Queen or Broadview and Dundas. > > > > Are you going to the Seminar? > > Yes, but I'm coming from Mississauga. If you can't get a ride, there is > the TTC, which runs right by there. Also, are you going to the morning > or afternoon session? Amos: Take the TTC to the Lawrence West Station. From there take the 58A bus, which runs along Dixon Rd (Airport Rd) past the Airport. It's about a 1? hour trip (I've done it several times from your area of town). HTH -- Steve A. ----------------------------------------------- Wednesday Jun 15 2005 22:55:02 EDT ----------------------------------------------- "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milkbone underware." -- Norm, from _Cheers_ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From moedobbs-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 03:07:01 2005 From: moedobbs-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Murray Dobbs) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:07:01 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. References: Message-ID: <001201c57220$772d3ae0$db95fea9@murray75d46e82> You wrote: > I desperately need to know if anyone from GTAlug who has a > car is going to this seminar. # I can give you a ride. Please respond with phone number. My plan is to leave the downtown (not far from your location) before 7:30 a.m.. Murray -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 03:52:16 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Sorry about that. This is the Greater Toronto Area LUG, it never > occured to me that someone from the UK might be subscribed. I was subscribed to this list (from Australia) for 2 years before coming to Toronto. At least one person was subscribed to either this list or OCLUG from the UK because they knew they were coming :) My LUG back at home has people from all over the world subscribed. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 04:01:19 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:01:19 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050613161236.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610061056.GB11293@waltdnes.org> <20050613161236.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616040119.GA20478@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 12:12:36PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > The boards I have used so far for amd64 are via and nforce3 based, > and I have seen people report great results with nforce4 boards too. > Basically the ALSA drivers work great for the i8xx compatible ac97 > implementation, and the ide and sata seems to work fine (no NCQ yet, > but most drives don't support it either yet) Thanks, nice to hear. Actually, the Nvidia complaints seem to have dried up recently, so it looks reasonably safe now. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 09:29:33 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:29:33 +0800 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool Message-ID: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. tia, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 11:34:18 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:34:18 -0400 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool In-Reply-To: <200506161729.33809.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200506160734.18325.marc@lijour.net> On June 16, 2005 05:29, JM wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS > Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. Can I ask why do you want a web based application? Thank you. > > tia, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 12:38:56 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:38:56 -0400 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool In-Reply-To: <200506161729.33809.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <42B172E0.105@golden.net> JM wrote: >Hi, > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS >Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. > > >tia, >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > I googled this "open source web based project manager" and found several in 0.23 seconds. http://www.dotproject.net/ John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 13:07:23 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:07:23 -0400 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool Message-ID: Hmm... for web-based project management I'd use ganttproject. Free software. It probably doesn't have M$ Project's full capabilities. http://ganttproject.sourceforge.net ~/Chris >>> marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org 6/16/05 7:34:18 am >>> On June 16, 2005 05:29, JM wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS > Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. Can I ask why do you want a web based application? Thank you. > > tia, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 12:33:06 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:33:06 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B17182.9010409@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > > At least one person was subscribed to either this list or > OCLUG from the UK because they knew they were coming :) Yeah, I was one. Think I was subbed from late 2001 in the UK. I knew not then of the mythical 'Galbraith' of which they spoke ... Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 14:57:22 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:57:22 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? Message-ID: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I'm trying to install wxPython on my Debian machine, and for some reason I'm running into trouble. Has anyone used this module, and if so, how did you get it installed? I've installed everything I thought I should have, but I'm getting complaints about wxPython not being installed. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 15:22:04 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:22:04 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: <20050616040119.GA20478-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610061056.GB11293@waltdnes.org> <20050613161236.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616040119.GA20478@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050616152204.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:01:19AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 12:12:36PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > > > The boards I have used so far for amd64 are via and nforce3 based, > > and I have seen people report great results with nforce4 boards too. > > Basically the ALSA drivers work great for the i8xx compatible ac97 > > implementation, and the ide and sata seems to work fine (no NCQ yet, > > but most drives don't support it either yet) > > Thanks, nice to hear. Actually, the Nvidia complaints seem to have > dried up recently, so it looks reasonably safe now. Well people still complain about the lack of proper specifications, since so far the NCQ feature of the nforce4 is not there, the hardware firewall (whatever the heck that is) of the network chip isn't supported, and a few other odd features might not be there. On the other hand things do work as well as they seem to on most other chipsets, and generally faster than any other chipset (in the case of the nforce4). When nvidia actually releases specs people might stop complaining entirely, but that isn't likely to happen. The users with ATI chipsets on the other hand seem to be having some serious pains running Linux. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 15:31:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:31:34 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616145722.GA8450-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:57:22AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I'm trying to install wxPython on my Debian machine, and for some reason > I'm running into trouble. Has anyone used this module, and if so, how > did you get it installed? I've installed everything I thought I should > have, but I'm getting complaints about wxPython not being installed. What is making the complaint? What is the error it gives? Maybe something depends on a specific version. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:07:25 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:07:25 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616153134.GV23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 11:31:34AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:57:22AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >> I'm trying to install wxPython on my Debian machine, and for some reason >> I'm running into trouble. Has anyone used this module, and if so, how >> did you get it installed? I've installed everything I thought I should >> have, but I'm getting complaints about wxPython not being installed. > >What is making the complaint? > >What is the error it gives? > >Maybe something depends on a specific version. The error is this: ImportError: No module named wxPython or: ImportError: No module named wx Depending if I call the module as "from wxPython import wx" or "import wx". Since I've got an up to date "testing" system and I only installed the various recommended components today, I don't think it's a version problem. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:17:11 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:17:11 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616160725.GA8768-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:07:25PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > The error is this: > > ImportError: No module named wxPython > > or: > > ImportError: No module named wx > > Depending if I call the module as "from wxPython import wx" or "import > wx". Since I've got an up to date "testing" system and I only installed > the various recommended components today, I don't think it's a version > problem. Try this: apt-get install wxwin2.4-examples libwxgtk2.4-python cd /tmp cp -a /usr/share/doc/wxwin2.4-examples/examples/wxPython . cd wxPython for i in *gz; do gunzip $i; done ./demo.py If that works, enjoy and you have some working examples of how it should be used. It works here using Debian Sarge. It looks like they just use: import wx Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:25:15 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:25:15 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616161711.GW23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:17:11PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Try this: > >apt-get install wxwin2.4-examples libwxgtk2.4-python >cd /tmp >cp -a /usr/share/doc/wxwin2.4-examples/examples/wxPython . >cd wxPython >for i in *gz; do gunzip $i; done >./demo.py > >If that works, enjoy and you have some working examples of how it should >be used. It works here using Debian Sarge. > >It looks like they just use: import wx Here is the result: Traceback (most recent call last): File "./demo.py", line 3, in ? import Main File "/tmp/wxPython/Main.py", line 16, in ? import wx # This module uses the new wx namespace ImportError: No module named wx So something is up. Strange. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:39:14 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:39:14 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <20050615212258.GT23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 12:18:16PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > > >>I have this relic and would like to make it useful in some way. It is >>120Mhz, with 40 MB and a 1.35GB drive. There is no CDROM and I haven't >>had any luck finding one. I was able to acquire a docking station for it >>which has two bays. One bay provides a second floppy device and there is >>room for a CDROM. The docking station also provides a network device. >> >>I have made some progress so far. I used a Slackware bareapm.i bootdisk >>to install a 2.2 kernel and a few packages over NFS. It can now be >>booted on its own and I have full network functionality (lynx, ftp, >>ssh). The machine has gcc 2.95.3 and 350 MB free on an ext3 file system. >>I gave it 130 MB swap. >> >>Is it at all possible to bring this old thing to a 2.6 on its own one >>build at a time? I'm just a regular RPM guy and am not sure how to >>proceed with all this MAKE stuff. In other words, if it can be done do I >>start by building a new kernel and then the compiler and glibc? There >>must be a method to this kind of madness. >> >> > >You could just go install Debian on it. I run Debian on a 486/66 with >48M ram and you can certainly easily fit in 1.3G. It even comes with a >2.6 kernel so you don't have to go compile anything. Debian still >supports 386's although through some kernel instruction emulation caused >by glibc 2.3 requirements of 486 or better processors. > >You can install debian as long as you have a network connection and a >floppy drive, and can start the netinstall using the boot, root and net >floppy images. The rest it can get over the network link. I have done >that method before. > >A cdrom install is simpler (slightly), but if you don't have a cdrom >drive, that doesn't help. > >Lennart Sorensen >-- > > OK fine I'll do it your way, but first I need to know will I be able to rebuilt the kernel and iptables from souce and install them cleanly on Debian? I was unable to do it with Fedora because of all the quirky things they do to the packages. I had success with a Mandrake distro one time ago with RPM but I've never worked with DEB ever in my whole linux life, oh except for that Xandros mistake I made the other day... Can I patch, build and install a kernel and iptables cleanly and where can I get more info on this wonderful Debian, Sarge? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:48:09 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:48:09 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616162515.GA8889-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:25:15PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > Here is the result: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "./demo.py", line 3, in ? > import Main > File "/tmp/wxPython/Main.py", line 16, in ? > import wx # This module uses the new wx namespace > ImportError: No module named wx > > So something is up. Strange. Which debian version are you running? I use 3.1 r0a here. What do you have installed for wx? I have: ii libwxgtk2.4 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime) ii libwxgtk2.4-python 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython binding) ii wxwin2.4-examples 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (examples) I have a bunch of stuff for python. I wonder if there is a package you are missing, although if that is the case, I think there is a dependancy bug that should be reported. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 16:50:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:50:53 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B1AB32.30409-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050616165053.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:39:14PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > OK fine I'll do it your way, but first I need to know will I be able to > rebuilt the kernel and iptables from souce and install them cleanly on > Debian? I was unable to do it with Fedora because of all the quirky > things they do to the packages. I had success with a Mandrake distro one > time ago with RPM but I've never worked with DEB ever in my whole linux > life, oh except for that Xandros mistake I made the other day... > > Can I patch, build and install a kernel and iptables cleanly and where You can if you don't think what they provide is good enough (I certainly think their kernels are good enough, so I generally don't build my own kernels anymore). You can use make-kpkg from the package kernel-package which builds a .deb from any kernel source with your config. You can then install and later cleanly uninstall that kernel. Makes it easy to build on one machine and install on another since the complete kernel is simply one .deb to move around. make-kpkg works with both debian-kernel-source- packages's source and with kernel.org sources the same way. There are howtos showing how to use make-kpkg that are pretty easy to find. > can I get more info on this wonderful Debian, Sarge? www.debian.org Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 17:07:51 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:07:51 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616164809.GX23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:48:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Which debian version are you running? > >I use 3.1 r0a here. /etc/debian-version says 3.1 >What do you have installed for wx? > >I have: >ii libwxgtk2.4 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime) >ii libwxgtk2.4-python 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython binding) >ii wxwin2.4-examples 2.4.3.1 wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (examples) I have those packages with those version numbers. Bother. >I have a bunch of stuff for python. I wonder if there is a package you >are missing, although if that is the case, I think there is a dependency >bug that should be reported. Is this one of those times when I actually should bother the package maintainer? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 17:52:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:52:47 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616170751.GA9227-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:07:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > /etc/debian-version says 3.1 > > I have those packages with those version numbers. Bother. > > Is this one of those times when I actually should bother the package > maintainer? They might know something we don't about what can cause it. Sure is pzuling to me. Which version of python is your default? python -V shows me 2.3.5 Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 18:23:00 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:23:00 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <20050616165053.GY23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> <20050616165053.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42B1C384.4030204@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:39:14PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > > >>OK fine I'll do it your way, but first I need to know will I be able to >>rebuilt the kernel and iptables from souce and install them cleanly on >>Debian? I was unable to do it with Fedora because of all the quirky >>things they do to the packages. I had success with a Mandrake distro one >>time ago with RPM but I've never worked with DEB ever in my whole linux >>life, oh except for that Xandros mistake I made the other day... >> >>Can I patch, build and install a kernel and iptables cleanly and where >> >> > >You can if you don't think what they provide is good enough (I certainly >think their kernels are good enough, so I generally don't build my own >kernels anymore). > > It is not a question of being "good enough" since I'm quite sure they are. It is simply a matter of getting back TARPIT and STRING in NetFilter. These features and a few others are not enabled (Patch-o-Matic) in the prime-time kernel/iptables packages yet. I think this machine would make a great low-risk (disposable) PIT with snort inline and the correctly enabled kernel/iptables packages. QUEUE brings things into userspace for tinkering. I like to tinker with goons probing my IP for service. I just want a basic No X system with some specialized tools For learning and having fun with at the same time. Ain't that what Linux is all about? >You can use make-kpkg from the package kernel-package which builds a >.deb from any kernel source with your config. You can then install and >later cleanly uninstall that kernel. Makes it easy to build on one >machine and install on another since the complete kernel is simply one >.deb to move around. > >make-kpkg works with both debian-kernel-source- packages's >source and with kernel.org sources the same way. There are howtos >showing how to use make-kpkg that are pretty easy to find. > > > >>can I get more info on this wonderful Debian, Sarge? >> >> > >www.debian.org > >Lennart Sorensen >-- > > Thanks Lennart, I'm on it. I sure hope this works... Can ya help me out if I get stuck? (TARPIT=stuck ha ha) farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 18:16:27 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:16:27 -0500 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <42B17182.9010409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42B17182.9010409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Crap, I didn't even think to check if anyone else was going. I found my way there by TTC, albiet the long way. It was interesting.. and right now I'm downloading VMware workstation (for Linux, of course). On 6/16/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > At least one person was subscribed to either this list or > > OCLUG from the UK because they knew they were coming :) > > Yeah, I was one. Think I was subbed from late 2001 in the UK. I knew not > then of the mythical 'Galbraith' of which they spoke ... > > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 18:16:38 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:16:38 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616175247.GZ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:52:47PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 01:07:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >> /etc/debian-version says 3.1 >> >> I have those packages with those version numbers. Bother. >> >> Is this one of those times when I actually should bother the package >> maintainer? > >They might know something we don't about what can cause it. Sure is >pzuling to me. Which version of python is your default? > >python -V shows me 2.3.5 Hmm, that might be the trouble - I'm using 2.4.1... Yes, that seems to be the trouble - the wxPython stuff is all in /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages. I'll look into getting this sorted, but that was the hint I needed. Updates to follow. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 18:18:50 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:18:50 -0500 Subject: 32-bit stuff on an x86-64 box??? In-Reply-To: <20050613163247.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050611001122.GE9133@waltdnes.org> <20050613163247.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/13/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I have seen 32bit vmware run on a 64bit system, with just 32bit > libraries that it requried installed. Debian recomends a chroot to hold > the 32bit stuff so apt-get can manage a native 32bit install in the > chroot, while /etc/ld.so.conf can point to both the chroot and the main > system and most 32bit programs can then be run directly picking up the > right libs as needed. Rather painless for most users really. On this note, according to the VMware seminar speaker today, it sounds like 64 bit host and guest support is being planned for third quarter this year. When it's in, it'll be included in VMware Workstation (v6?) first. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 18:42:19 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:42:19 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616181638.GA9446-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616184219.GA9743@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Recap: On a Debian testing system I wanted to install the wxPython (GUI stuff) module. I apt-got the bits I thought I needed, but got errors about failure to import modules wxPython and wx. It turns out that if you have both python 2.3 and 2.4 installed, you only get the wxPython stuff imported into 2.3. However, this was fixed quickly and simply (once I knew what the problem was) by doing this: "cp -r /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/* /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/." It is inelegant, but it does work, which I think is a real plus. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:03:36 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:03:36 -0500 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This seems to have not been fixed yet. I'll get on it. On 6/7/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I'll look into it. > It may take a few days. > -Joseph- > > On 6/6/05, John Vetterli wrote: > > I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it > > out there and hope somebody bites: > > > > I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is > > it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the > > uploads page, but it's disabled. > > > > JV > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:11:04 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:11:04 -0500 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's fixed. Sorry about the delay. Please keep an eye on one potential error: Particularly massive pictures may generate errors. Do report anything unusual. To make a nice gallery, do: Image:my_image.jpg|optional description Image:some other image 2.jpg and it will figure things out for you. On 6/16/05, Sy wrote: > This seems to have not been fixed yet. I'll get on it. > > > > On 6/7/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > I'll look into it. > > It may take a few days. > > -Joseph- > > > > On 6/6/05, John Vetterli wrote: > > > I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it > > > out there and hope somebody bites: > > > > > > I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is > > > it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the > > > uploads page, but it's disabled. > > > > > > JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:13:46 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:13:46 -0500 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer In-Reply-To: <42A62BD9.50300-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <281260-22005605142921539@M2W062.mail2web.com> <42A62BD9.50300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Pretty much everything will work with Linux if all you want to do is text. =) How many dots was it? On 6/7/05, John Moniz wrote: > A store near my place had an older, but unused (still in the box), DMP > for about $20. It was bulky and looked like a real workhorse. I don't > remember the model, but when I checked into it a while back I couldn't > find any clue as to whether it worked with Linux. I'm not even sure it > had a drivers disk for DOS. If you want, I'll drop by and check if it's > still there and make a note of the model. > > John. > > > lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >I have to print multi-sheet forms and want to use a dot matrix printer to > >do that. I wonder where I can get a cheap dot matrix printer. > > > >TIA > >Lada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:19:15 2005 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (William E. Henderson) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Computer For Sale Message-ID: <20050616150457.D12153@sheppard1.torfree.net> Almost new 2.4 Ghz Intel Processor 2 by 82.3 Gb Hard drives 1 by 850 Mb Hard Drive 52x CDROM boots to FreeBsd 5.3 boots to Linux 2.4.29 boots to Dos 7.1 / Windows boots small hard drive to Linux as a rescue disk - mimimum system Lexmark Printer Dell Monitor Intel throughout Older Computer - boots to Linux from a 350 Mb drive - 5.25 + 3.50 floppies Use it for Firewall or Router or Experimenting - needs KB and Serial Mouse Lotsa cards 72 pin 160/170 ns edo simms (Lots) Lotsa other stuff Really solid desk + chair Give me $400 for the lot All brand new last few months Leaving Canada Fire sale price - no haggling Best Bargain this year Please reply to club_azur-Qt13gs6zZMY at public.gmane.org -- Kindest Regards, Your Friend: Bill Henderson . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:20:58 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:20:58 -0500 Subject: Wacky wiki issues In-Reply-To: <20050613105624.B5742-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f050522224170ef18bd@mail.gmail.com> <20050613142045.GA9763@unleashed.org> <20050613105624.B5742@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: It seemed to be a matter of configuring mediawiki itself. A small file uploaded easily. If there are further problems, especially with uploading larger files, I'll know how to address them if they're brought to my attention. All in all, it's good to have things back in order. On 6/13/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > For uploads, can you make sure that php is configured to allow uploads. That was one of the many problems we originally had setting it up. PHP gets installed with upload permission turned off by default for security reasons. > > Bill > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 07:20:45AM -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: > > We're back up and running on th3e new server again, but I think we > > will need some work to get the uploads and so on working again. I > > also now have it doing memcaching, so that should improve speed of > > things. Same admin info as before for those who want to go to town > > working on it. > > > > Leah > > -- > > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > > -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:22:03 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:22:03 -0500 Subject: Slightly OT - M$ and Linux In-Reply-To: <20050613131742.A12544-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050611045901.GF9133@waltdnes.org> <41982.206.186.8.130.1118673786.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050613131742.A12544@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 6/13/05, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, what does the 'linux' entry say? Assuming there is > one, of course.. "Mostly Harmless" ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:23:40 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:23:40 -0700 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sy: what did you have to do to enable uploads? -Joseph- On 6/16/05, Sy wrote: > It's fixed. Sorry about the delay. > > Please keep an eye on one potential error: Particularly massive > pictures may generate errors. Do report anything unusual. > > To make a nice gallery, do: > > > Image:my_image.jpg|optional description > Image:some other image 2.jpg > > > and it will figure things out for you. > > > > On 6/16/05, Sy wrote: > > This seems to have not been fixed yet. I'll get on it. > > > > > > > > On 6/7/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > I'll look into it. > > > It may take a few days. > > > -Joseph- > > > > > > On 6/6/05, John Vetterli wrote: > > > > I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it > > > > out there and hope somebody bites: > > > > > > > > I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is > > > > it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the > > > > uploads page, but it's disabled. > > > > > > > > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:28:09 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:28:09 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: <42ABB5DA.2060702-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Nice work. It's very much not in my neck of the woods, but I hope to drop by on the coattails of a couple of regular events. Btw, what's the food like? That's the big concern for moving the Ruby group down that way. You guys seemed like healthy eaters when I was there.. I was asked to look into vegetarian meals. Also, regarding pictures.. I just bought a digital camera (The Pentax OptioWP[1]) so I could take pictures of the place / area if you wanted. Now that the wiki can do it, I can even put pics on gtalug.org =) [1] http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/index.php/Pentax_OptioWP FYI all, there is a wiki entry for the caffe: http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Linuxcaffe.ca On 6/11/05, David J Patrick wrote: > [sound of trumpets peal from distant hills, the villagers look on with > astonishment] > > OPEN !!! > > whaaa ?? like .. OPEN ? YES !! > > (and they said it would never happen) > > 1000 thanks to Leah R. M. Cunningham and Joseph Kubik for spending > countless hours wrestling our quasi-obsolete hardware into submission, > making the network ping, the WiFi zing and the cash register bing ! I > couldn'ta done it withoutcha ! xxxx oooo ! > > So now there's a bricks-and-mortar location, in Toronto, running all > Open Source software, burning distros and generally rocking the free > code revolution. As I write this a gaggle of geeks are broadcasting > live web radio, whooting and munching bananutella paninis. > > YOU ARE ALL INVITED !! > 326 Harbord > (no, there's no sign yet, but it's right on the N/E corner and the > numbers are clear) > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=harbord+and+grace+toronto&spn=0.007767,0.014080&hl=en > 416-534-2116 > Monday to Thursday 7am to 7pm > Friday 7am to 11pm > Saturday 10 am to 11pm > and Sunday 10am till 5pm > > The espresso's hot and the air conditioning's cool > c'mon down ! > > The adventure has only begun and there's still a lot of work to do; > > website > wifi enhancement > user management > pixleboard control > graphics design > and more ! > > For many of the folks wandering through the door, this will be the first > time they have seen (or heard of) linux. It's important (for me, anyway) > that it's a good first impression. I'm counting on YOU (the linux > community) join in the fun and to help me get this thing firing on all > cylinders. > > Thanks to everyone who has contributed time and/or hardware (Robert > Brockway, Austin, Alain Maisoneuve, James Walker, Bill Tannis, Iain > Calder, Emma Jane Hogbin, Paul DiRezze, Simon P Ditner, Leah Honeywell, > if I've forgotten to list you, sorry, I'm sleep deprived) > > I'm looking forward to meeting many of you list-mates face-to-face, > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:34:54 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:34:54 -0500 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Edit LocalSettings.php - In this case I added: $wgDisableUploads = false; Note to self/other interested people, this command will be changed for mediawiki 1.5 so it will have to be fiddled with. I think it's going to become $wgEnableUploads = true; I also had to make sure the htdocs/images/ directory was writable. There may be additional issues with particularly large files, as apache/php would need to be configured to accept uploading of files of a certain size. My own notes are here: http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/index.php/LocalSettings.php and I also include some other tidbits. See also: http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/index.php/Php.ini#Uploads On 6/16/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > Sy: what did you have to do to enable uploads? > -Joseph- > > On 6/16/05, Sy wrote: > > It's fixed. Sorry about the delay. > > > > Please keep an eye on one potential error: Particularly massive > > pictures may generate errors. Do report anything unusual. > > > > To make a nice gallery, do: > > > > > > Image:my_image.jpg|optional description > > Image:some other image 2.jpg > > > > > > and it will figure things out for you. > > > > > > > > On 6/16/05, Sy wrote: > > > This seems to have not been fixed yet. I'll get on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/7/05, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > > I'll look into it. > > > > It may take a few days. > > > > -Joseph- > > > > > > > > On 6/6/05, John Vetterli wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure who the best person to ask is, so I'm just going to throw it > > > > > out there and hope somebody bites: > > > > > > > > > > I have a half-dozen photos I took at the past weekend's installfest. Is > > > > > it possible for me to post them on the gtalug.org wiki? I tried the > > > > > uploads page, but it's disabled. > > > > > > > > > > JV > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 19:59:06 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:59:06 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is.. In-Reply-To: References: <42ABB5DA.2060702@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050616195906.GA10110@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 02:28:09PM -0500, Sy wrote: >Btw, what's the food like? That's the big concern for moving the Ruby >group down that way. You guys seemed like healthy eaters when I was >there.. I was asked to look into vegetarian meals. I haven't systematically sampled the menu (which is evolving and suggestible I suspect), but I had a grilled panini sandwich yesterday which was first rate. I dare say that if veggies were expected, veggies would be provided. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 20:30:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:30:18 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616184219.GA9743-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616145722.GA8450@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616184219.GA9743@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 02:42:19PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > On a Debian testing system I wanted to install the wxPython (GUI stuff) > module. I apt-got the bits I thought I needed, but got errors about > failure to import modules wxPython and wx. > > It turns out that if you have both python 2.3 and 2.4 installed, you > only get the wxPython stuff imported into 2.3. However, this was fixed > quickly and simply (once I knew what the problem was) by doing this: > > "cp -r /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/* /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/." > > It is inelegant, but it does work, which I think is a real plus. Yeah quite inellegant. Default python is 2.3 on Debian 3.1, so that is what everything targets. Only some things support other versions. Good to know that 2.3 and 2.4 are at least compatible enough that you can just copy it. Any particular reason for wanting 2.4 over 2.3? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 20:32:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:32:27 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B1C384.4030204-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> <20050616165053.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1C384.4030204@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050616203227.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 02:23:00PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > It is not a question of being "good enough" since I'm quite sure they > are. It is simply a matter of getting back TARPIT and STRING in > NetFilter. These features and a few others are not enabled > (Patch-o-Matic) in the prime-time kernel/iptables packages yet. I think > this machine would make a great low-risk (disposable) PIT with snort > inline and the correctly enabled kernel/iptables packages. QUEUE brings > things into userspace for tinkering. I like to tinker with goons probing > my IP for service. > > I just want a basic No X system with some specialized tools For learning > and having fun with at the same time. Ain't that what Linux is all about? Well you can always install kernel-source-2.6.8 or whatever it is called, and run the path-o-matic against it and then build it with make-kpkg. That way you get a kernel with all debian's fixes and your new added iptables features. Or if you prefer, go get the latest kernel.org sources, and configure that as you want and build a .deb for that instead. Either works just fine. > Thanks Lennart, I'm on it. I sure hope this works... Can ya help me out > if I get stuck? > (TARPIT=stuck ha ha) Well you can always ask questions here. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 22:14:58 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:14:58 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616203018.GA23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616184219.GA9743@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050616221458.GA13023@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 04:30:18PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Good to know that [python] 2.3 and [python] 2.4 are at least compatible >enough that you can just copy it. > >Any particular reason for wanting 2.4 over 2.3? The way I see it, if I'm just learning a new language, but I suspect I'll use it in the future, I'll learn the most modern iteration that's stable. The future is where I'll be living the rest of my life, after all. As a counter-example, if I was just learning Perl, I'd learn Perl 6, because the adjustment from 5 to 6 is significant. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 23:00:36 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Sy wrote: > It's fixed. Sorry about the delay. > Please keep an eye on one potential error: Particularly massive > pictures may generate errors. Do report anything unusual. > To make a nice gallery, do: > > Image:my_image.jpg|optional description > Image:some other image 2.jpg > > and it will figure things out for you. Woohoo! And thanks. That wiki tag is pretty impressive. I've put up my photos at: http://gtalug.org/index.php/InstallFest-2005-06-photos Attendees (or anybody who wants to pretend they attended), please feel to add descriptions as you see fit. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 16 23:42:18 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:42:18 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616221458.GA13023-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616221458.GA13023@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200506161942.19512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 16, 2005 18:14, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 04:30:18PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Good to know that [python] 2.3 and [python] 2.4 are at least compatible > >enough that you can just copy it. > > > >Any particular reason for wanting 2.4 over 2.3? > > The way I see it, if I'm just learning a new language, but I suspect > I'll use it in the future, I'll learn the most modern iteration that's > stable. The future is where I'll be living the rest of my life, after > all. As a counter-example, if I was just learning Perl, I'd learn Perl > 6, because the adjustment from 5 to 6 is significant. William, in the future, if you are having this sort of a problem, you can start a python shell, type "help", type "modules", and if you do not see the module that you think you should be seeing, you can be sure it got installed somewhere that is not in PYTHONPATH. As you have discovered, that is possible when you have more than one Python installation. Python modules, like wxPython, typically get installed in the site-packages directory so you could also just look in the filesystem. While you are developing Python apps, you will also find that you will have to add things to PYTHONPATH in order to be able to import them into the namespace. I usually do this by just having a shell script to wrap the main Python script to export my paths so that the changes to PYTHONPATH are not persistent. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 00:18:45 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:18:45 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <200506161942.19512.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616153134.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616221458.GA13023@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200506161942.19512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050617001845.GA13714@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 07:42:18PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >William, in the future, if you are having this sort of a problem, you can >start a python shell, type "help", type "modules", and if you do not see the >module that you think you should be seeing, you can be sure it got installed >somewhere that is not in PYTHONPATH. As you have discovered, that is possible >when you have more than one Python installation. Python modules, like >wxPython, typically get installed in the site-packages directory so you could >also just look in the filesystem. I am discovering this, thank you. Each day I plan to use Python should begin with the following mantra: "Python is not Perl, this is not the CPAN you are looking for - move along" and then I'd probably be fine. >While you are developing Python apps, you will also find that you will have to >add things to PYTHONPATH in order to be able to import them into the >namespace. I usually do this by just having a shell script to wrap the main >Python script to export my paths so that the changes to PYTHONPATH are not >persistent. Good advice, thanks - so far my Python programs are going to get run through pyexe and used on Windoze, but it's good to be reminded of open source portability. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 02:20:42 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Free Computers on Friday (plus other stuff) In-Reply-To: <20050616225610.GA10789-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616225610.GA10789@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050617022042.25135.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hey Colin, > > I'm not really interested in any of this stuff, but > I'm wondering if you > may be able to help me track down something else. > > I have an ailing Pentium II 300MHz box that serves > as my general purpose > Linux server, and I'm looking for a replacement. > Between the parts that > I can cannabalize from this box and parts that I > have around, it looks > like I'll just need: > > a motherboard and chip - anything between 300MHz and > 700MHz would be > sufficient. I don't care if it's AMD or Intel, > although I'd rather not > have a crappy Celeron. :) I would have to talk to the powers that be in my office but I am fairly sure we could do something... I know the VERY earliest Caleron chips had MAJOR performace issues (too small a cache memory), but the vast majority of Celeron chips have been just fine... > a full tower - I want to be able to throw several > hard drives into it > > Do you know if there is anything like this around > your work? I am sure something like the above could be found. > Also, I don't know if you're interested, but I have > a couple rack > mountable Synoptics Lattishub 2813 16 port hubs > around here that I'm not > going to need. Do you want them for your home > network? For my home network, no, a SMALL 100 MB hub that can take enviromental extremes (read it would be in the attic) could be of interest, but not what you describe. I might be interested in those hubs for the office, there are projects that might be able to use those hubs... > Tim > > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 11:00:49PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > Some of the warehouse space where I work has been > rented out to a movie > > company, so we need to downsize. We will be > getting rid of stuff that well, > > is basically we give it away or we will have to > pay a dumpster firm to haul > > it away. Now the final list of what is to be given > away has NOT been not > > been done yet, but I do know it will contain: > > > > - Several 680x0 Macs (not tested, some may not be > working). > > - Some PC desks (you will need a van/truck if you > want one of these). > > - Some kitchen stuff (bottles, etc.) > > - Some kids toys > > > > The items will be done on a first come/first serve > basis, come and take it > > away. The give away will happen at 169 Eastern > Ave. (near King St. East and > > River), Friday June 17th between 10:00 AM and 3:00 > PM. > > > > Now, it is a good idea to see Linux on more than > one platform. Granted, a > > 680x0 Mac would not be my first (or even my 2nd, > 3rd of 4th) pick for an > > alternate Linux platform, but at this price (free) > for anyone on a tight > > budget and some time on their hands it is a good > deal. > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 03:40:18 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:40:18 -0500 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/16/05, John Vetterli wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Sy wrote: > > It's fixed. Sorry about the delay. > > Please keep an eye on one potential error: Particularly massive > > pictures may generate errors. Do report anything unusual. > > To make a nice gallery, do: > > > > Image:my_image.jpg|optional description > > Image:some other image 2.jpg > > > > and it will figure things out for you. > > Woohoo! And thanks. > > That wiki tag is pretty impressive. I've put up my photos at: > http://gtalug.org/index.php/InstallFest-2005-06-photos > Attendees (or anybody who wants to pretend they attended), please feel to > add descriptions as you see fit. Nice to see you're making good use out of it. Also, I must mention that pictures should probably find themselves released under the GFDL license the rest of the site is in, otherwise we'll need to tag pictures with an alternate license. The only thing I see lacking with the gallery tag is that it's only three pictures wide. I hope to see it expanded in a future mediawiki release. If you wanted to get fancy with image tags in the future, we can talk. There are lots of options. [[Image:myimage.jpg|thumb|left|description]] [[Image:myimage.jpg|180px|right]] On the note of galleries, does anyone know why PNGs don't thumbnail well? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 05:45:48 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:45:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool In-Reply-To: <200506161729.33809.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200506170145.48557.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 16, 2005 05:29 am, JM wrote: > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS > Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. I assume you need something you can collaborate with others on. If not why web based, planner (formerly mrproject) does the gantt chart + resource thingy and can export to HTML. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 05:47:58 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:47:58 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: <42B17182.9010409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200506170147.58630.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 16, 2005 02:16 pm, Sy wrote: > Crap, I didn't even think to check if anyone else was going. ?I found > my way there by TTC, albiet the long way. ?It was interesting.. and > right now I'm downloading VMware workstation (for Linux, of course). Xen is more interesting, unless you have to deal with Windows ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 10:38:43 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:38:43 -0400 Subject: Slightly OT: OpenSolaris References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428A9C12.1000700@sympatico.ca> <20050518023042.GA13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428AADB9.6060207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <001701c57328$cddc9a80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Hey guys, Has anyone tried or intend to try this one on a x86 machine? Although the installation procedure looks like a drag... http://www.opensolaris.org/os/ Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 11:16:28 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:16:28 -0500 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <200506170147.58630.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <42B17182.9010409@sympatico.ca> <200506170147.58630.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 6/17/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On June 16, 2005 02:16 pm, Sy wrote: > > > Crap, I didn't even think to check if anyone else was going. I found > > my way there by TTC, albiet the long way. It was interesting.. and > > right now I'm downloading VMware workstation (for Linux, of course). > > Xen is more interesting, unless you have to deal with Windows ;-) Gah, I went looking for an alternate open source solution. Xen [1] looks Interesting. Does this mean I can run Xen as my main setup[2], run Linux within it and then run VMware inside that to use Windows? Hmm.. I was thinking of redoing my setup something like this. I was even thinking of VMware's ESX Server. [1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/ [2] http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenLinux The page doesn't exist, but is referenced from the FAQ as a minimal Linux install. FAQ: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenFaq Apps: make, gcc, libc6-dev, zlib1g-dev, python, python-dev, python-twisted, bridge-utils, iproute, libcurl3, libcurl3-dev, bzip2, module-init-tools, latex, latex2html, transfig, and tgif. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 13:23:07 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:23:07 -0400 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B2CEBB.1050304@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: > > On the note of galleries, does anyone know why PNGs don't thumbnail well? There's no technical barrier, unless your software is assuming that you're using PNGs as GIF replacements, and limiting them to 256 colours. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 13:32:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:32:34 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050616221458.GA13023-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616160725.GA8768@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616184219.GA9743@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616221458.GA13023@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050617133234.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 06:14:58PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 04:30:18PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >Good to know that [python] 2.3 and [python] 2.4 are at least compatible > >enough that you can just copy it. > > > >Any particular reason for wanting 2.4 over 2.3? > > The way I see it, if I'm just learning a new language, but I suspect > I'll use it in the future, I'll learn the most modern iteration that's > stable. The future is where I'll be living the rest of my life, after > all. As a counter-example, if I was just learning Perl, I'd learn Perl > 6, because the adjustment from 5 to 6 is significant. On the other hand python 2.3.5 is what is the default and supported version by everything on your system. Also the python syntax does not change that often so learning 2.3 should be just fine and you won't have to make a mess trying to get extensions installed and working. 2.3 is a stable version, 2.4 is for all I know still developing and might change at times. I also doubt perl6's syntax is finalized yet unless they are further along that I think. No system I have yet seen runs perl6 as their perl default so learning it is certainly not on my priority list. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 13:36:30 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:36:30 -0400 Subject: Free Computers on Friday (plus other stuff) In-Reply-To: <20050617022042.25135.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616225610.GA10789@localhost.localdomain> <20050617022042.25135.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050617133630.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:20:42PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I know the VERY earliest Caleron chips had MAJOR > performace issues (too small a cache memory), but the > vast majority of Celeron chips have been just fine... Yes no L2 cache certainly qualified as too small. That was the Celeron 266 and 300. The 300A and 333+ celeron's had 128k. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 13:59:04 2005 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slightly OT: OpenSolaris In-Reply-To: <001701c57328$cddc9a80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <001701c57328$cddc9a80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <20050617135904.26925.qmail@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> I tried it on a PII 350MHz/64Mb machine. I would say the machine takes forever to boot up or do anything. That kind of killed my interest in Solaris. EK --- Francois Ouellette wrote: > Hey guys, > > Has anyone tried or intend to try this one on a x86 > machine? Although the > installation procedure looks like a drag... > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/ > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 14:40:29 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:40:29 -0400 Subject: Exporting Constants in Perl In-Reply-To: <1118769698.22285.36.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1118768707.22285.32.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <1118769698.22285.36.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <42B2E0DD.6070904@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > I just tried it with "our" instead of "use subs" and it works...but why? > > use subs @EXPORT_OK; > becomes > our @EXPORT_OK; > > I assume the problem is that use subs only expects subs to be exported. > So should I always use our? Does use subs offer any benefits over our? > Now my file works, but I just want to know what is the correct syntax > and why. Chapter 4 of the camel book will enlighten you. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCsuDcgfzn5SevSpoRAlRqAKCauSWRkzY8wxSPJQyo9Ia0nAZE7ACgoDqI Ctm7LqZC/ptT7AJTc8XoSus= =N9l6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 16:23:14 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:23:14 -0400 Subject: wxPython on Debian? In-Reply-To: <20050617133234.GC23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050616161711.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616162515.GA8889@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616164809.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616170751.GA9227@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616175247.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616181638.GA9446@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616184219.GA9743@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050616203018.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050616221458.GA13023@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050617133234.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050617162314.GB7051@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 09:32:34AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > [...] I also doubt perl6's syntax is finalized yet > unless they are further along that I think. No system I have yet seen > runs perl6 as their perl default so learning it is certainly not on my > priority list. The broad strokes are well defined, but there are still many smaller areas that have not yet been defined and others that are still in flux. There is no perl6 implementation that could be considered as appropriate for any sort of production task - the pugs implementation supports a large proportion of the language (and is doing well at tracking new decisions as they are rendered and at testing odd corners to expose problems with the alternatives choices that are under consideration). I wouldn't try to learn perl6 right now - there is no good documentation for learners yet, things are still focussed on implementors and will be for a while longer. So, a lot of the documentation simply refers to what is changed from perl5 (which of course doesn't mean much unless you already know perl5). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 16:19:53 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:19:53 -0400 Subject: Exporting Constants in Perl In-Reply-To: <42B2E0DD.6070904-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <1118768707.22285.32.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <1118769698.22285.36.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <42B2E0DD.6070904@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <1119025193.26736.15.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 10:40 -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > I just tried it with "our" instead of "use subs" and it works...but why? > > > > use subs @EXPORT_OK; > > becomes > > our @EXPORT_OK; > > > > I assume the problem is that use subs only expects subs to be exported. > > So should I always use our? Does use subs offer any benefits over our? > > Now my file works, but I just want to know what is the correct syntax > > and why. > > Chapter 4 of the camel book will enlighten you. > Well, not in my Programming Perl book. However, I did find a copy of the Third Edition on the web, and chapter 4 does have the info you are talking about...guess I will have to get a new copy. I now know that the use subs @EXPORT_OK and our @EXPORT_OK; are completely unnecessary for my purposes. The problem was, I was updating a perl module that was 5 or 6 years old that someone else created. Anyway, problem solved and I learned a little more about Perl. Thanks for the pointer. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 20:32:13 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:32:13 -0400 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: <42B2CEBB.1050304-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42B2CEBB.1050304@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 6/17/05, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Sy wrote: > > > > On the note of galleries, does anyone know why PNGs don't thumbnail well? > > There's no technical barrier, unless your software is assuming that > you're using PNGs as GIF replacements, and limiting them to 256 colours. Ok, then I can assume this is a problem with whatever mediawiki is using to scale images and will check from that angle (e.g. search their bug tracker). I was afraid this was a PNG thing. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 17 22:22:33 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:22:33 -0400 Subject: installfest photos and wiki In-Reply-To: References: <42B2CEBB.1050304@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42B34D29.1000500@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: > > Ok, then I can assume this is a problem with whatever mediawiki is > using to scale images Unfortunately, there isn't one scaling algorithm that will give best results for arbitrary images. ImageMagick offers lots of different ones (and unfortunately, their default never quite looks right for photographs for me). Generally, you're looking for a cubic or better function. You can do tricksy, fast things with JPEG scaling -- maybe mediawiki is using that, and something less pleasant for pNG. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 18 01:30:07 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:30:07 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: <200506170147.58630.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200506172130.07713.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 17, 2005 07:16 am, Sy wrote: > Does this mean I can run Xen as my main setup[2], run Linux within it > and then run VMware inside that to use Windows? I had a few Xen domains on my laptop (Debian) at one point for testing but support for apm and other things very useful for laptops seems to be lost (or at least works poorly) under Xen. These days I'm using SuSE Pro 9.3 for Xen work (SuSE ships Xen prebuilt, ready to go). You cannot run vmware inside a Linux/Xen instance at this time, vmware needs access to raw hardware and Xen does not provide that (it's doesn't fully emulate x86 arch). Intel (this year) and AMD (next year) are both adding virtualization support to their CPUs at which point vmware may run on top of Xen ... since Windows will run on Xen directly at that point there wouldn't be any need for vmware though. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 18 06:15:05 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:15:05 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <200506172130.07713.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200506172130.07713.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: Very Interesting. Do you have any information on the virtualization support and /or when we can expect it, Mr. Campbell? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Fraser Campbell Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:30 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. On June 17, 2005 07:16 am, Sy wrote: > Does this mean I can run Xen as my main setup[2], run Linux within it > and then run VMware inside that to use Windows? I had a few Xen domains on my laptop (Debian) at one point for testing but support for apm and other things very useful for laptops seems to be lost (or at least works poorly) under Xen. These days I'm using SuSE Pro 9.3 for Xen work (SuSE ships Xen prebuilt, ready to go). You cannot run vmware inside a Linux/Xen instance at this time, vmware needs access to raw hardware and Xen does not provide that (it's doesn't fully emulate x86 arch). Intel (this year) and AMD (next year) are both adding virtualization support to their CPUs at which point vmware may run on top of Xen ... since Windows will run on Xen directly at that point there wouldn't be any need for vmware though. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 18 17:03:26 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:03:26 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: <200506170147.58630.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200506181303.28140.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 17, 2005 07:16, Sy wrote: > On 6/17/05, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > On June 16, 2005 02:16 pm, Sy wrote: > > > Crap, I didn't even think to check if anyone else was going. I found > > > my way there by TTC, albiet the long way. It was interesting.. and > > > right now I'm downloading VMware workstation (for Linux, of course). > > > > Xen is more interesting, unless you have to deal with Windows ;-) > > Gah, I went looking for an alternate open source solution. Xen [1] > looks Interesting. I have a Mandriva 2005 LE dom0 and the same for domU. Works great. I plan to use Debian for dom0, the "host" in VMWare speak, and various other distros for the "guests". > Does this mean I can run Xen as my main setup[2], run Linux within it > and then run VMware inside that to use Windows? I have not tried that. You would have to patch the Xen kernel with the VMWare kernel patches to make it work I suppose. > Hmm.. I was thinking of redoing my setup something like this. I was > even thinking of VMware's ESX Server. I have used GSX Server. It is quite resource intensive but it makes no pretenses that it is not. It has great remote admin tools. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 18 18:47:35 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:47:35 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <20050616203227.GB23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> <20050616165053.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1C384.4030204@execulink.com> <20050616203227.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42B46C47.2090402@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 02:23:00PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > > >>It is not a question of being "good enough" since I'm quite sure they >>are. It is simply a matter of getting back TARPIT and STRING in >>NetFilter. These features and a few others are not enabled >>(Patch-o-Matic) in the prime-time kernel/iptables packages yet. I think >>this machine would make a great low-risk (disposable) PIT with snort >>inline and the correctly enabled kernel/iptables packages. QUEUE brings >>things into userspace for tinkering. I like to tinker with goons probing >>my IP for service. >> >>I just want a basic No X system with some specialized tools For learning >>and having fun with at the same time. Ain't that what Linux is all about? >> >> > >Well you can always install kernel-source-2.6.8 or whatever it is >called, and run the path-o-matic against it and then build it with >make-kpkg. That way you get a kernel with all debian's fixes and your >new added iptables features. Or if you prefer, go get the latest >kernel.org sources, and configure that as you want and build a .deb for >that instead. Either works just fine. > > > >>Thanks Lennart, I'm on it. I sure hope this works... Can ya help me out >>if I get stuck? >>(TARPIT=stuck ha ha) >> >> > >Well you can always ask questions here. > >Lennart Sorensen >-- > > A world of thanks to you Lennart, it was a pleasure to install Debian on this wee bitty relic. It weren't totally without some problems though. Like Aptitude (during base-config) didn't mind one bit that I chose more packages than my disk could handle. That was install attempt #1. Attempt #2 was going well cause I only chose packages in 100MB chunks, then it quit with "Something Bad Happened!" During attempt #3 the same thing occured and I figured out that it was the debsig-verify package causing the aborts. I removed it til I figure out if I missed something about the mirrored DEB's not being signed or if I just need to import thae actual keys. I thought they would be in the Debian-keyring. Anyhow the system is installed and stable and with 700MB to spare. But before I can configured it as a tinyhoneypot toy, I got to fix some minor bugs (me newbie bugs): 1) Why do so many .debs contain %3a in their filenames (I'm guessing it's a colon)? 2) I have enabled myself (sole user) to receive root's mail as suggested by the install. I am using elmo to read the mail, but cannot delete any of the messages. I am trying to nail down an approprite package for system checks so I'm trying out a few of similar purpose before I decide. Fcheck, samhain and logcheck are sending mail and I'd like to be able to keep up with them. I've got to be able to delete the READ messages. Neither the key not "r" work. And when I reopen elmo everything reappears as UNREAD. Many Thanks, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 18 18:57:31 2005 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 18 Jun 2005 14:57:31 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: <200506172130.07713.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200506170147.58630.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200506172130.07713.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: Fraser Campbell writes: > On June 17, 2005 07:16 am, Sy wrote: > > > Does this mean I can run Xen as my main setup[2], run Linux within it > > and then run VMware inside that to use Windows? > > I had a few Xen domains on my laptop (Debian) at one point for testing but > support for apm and other things very useful for laptops seems to be lost (or > at least works poorly) under Xen. These days I'm using SuSE Pro 9.3 for Xen > work (SuSE ships Xen prebuilt, ready to go). Xen works nicely in Debian too, Debian packages for Xen are available from non-standard places. > You cannot run vmware inside a Linux/Xen instance at this time, vmware needs > access to raw hardware and Xen does not provide that (it's doesn't fully > emulate x86 arch). But you can run QEMU (w/o the accelerator) or Bochs and run Windows in them. This may be good enough, if your requirements are modest and your hardware is sufficiently fast. Just don't expect to break any speed records. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 19 16:13:44 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:13:44 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506191213.44374.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 18, 2005 02:15 am, Amos H. Weatherill wrote: > Very Interesting. Do you have any information on the virtualization > support and /or when we can expect it, Mr. Campbell? I assume you're talking virtualization in CPUs ... Intel (supposedly) real soon, AMD Q1 2006. I've seen claims from the Xen guys that they will support it as soon as the hardware becomes available ... that should mean Xen 3.x (scheduled for release this year). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 19 16:14:55 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:14:55 -0400 Subject: OT: VMWare SeminarJune 16. In-Reply-To: References: <200506172130.07713.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200506191214.55312.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 18, 2005 02:57 pm, Tim Writer wrote: > But you can run QEMU (w/o the accelerator) or Bochs and run Windows in > them. This may be good enough, if your requirements are modest and your > hardware is sufficiently fast. Just don't expect to break any speed > records. Cool. Might have to try that. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 12:09:32 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:09:32 -0400 Subject: Slightly OT: OpenSolaris In-Reply-To: <001701c57328$cddc9a80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <20050518004851.GA12657@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428A9C12.1000700@sympatico.ca> <20050518023042.GA13047@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <428AADB9.6060207@rogers.com> <001701c57328$cddc9a80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: On 6/17/05, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Hey guys, > > Has anyone tried or intend to try this one on a x86 machine? Although the > installation procedure looks like a drag... > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/ Thanks for mentioning this. Yes I intend to try it. One of these weekends in the next couple of weeks I'll install it as a VMware guest and see what it can do. I like the project philosophies, especially that Sun is supporting it officially and will be building their future commercial distributions from its codebase. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 13:28:59 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:28:59 -0400 Subject: Debian Build Message-ID: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> Tluggers, I had a littls fun with the Compaq 5200LTE over the weekend in a temp DMZ. It performs OK considering all the crap on the wire. This was my first peek outside the router in over a year...Yikes! So now I'm getting down to business with the kernel. I grabbed linux-2.6.11.6 and iptables-1.3.1 unpacked them in /usr/src and ran Patch-o-Matic. I enabled a couple features with ./runme extra. I did make for the tables which didn't take too long and then I started make for the kernel which is still working twelve hours later. Make is in net/ipv6 right now and I expect it won't take too much longer. I have not done make install. I'd like to package them as .debs and install but I know little of the Debian packager. Can anyone suggest the correct way to do this? Thanks, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 13:23:35 2005 From: andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:23:35 -0400 Subject: Debian Build In-Reply-To: <42B6C49B.40507-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050620132335.GB9925@seahorse.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 09:28:59AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I have not done make install. I'd like to package them as .debs and > install but I know little of the Debian packager. Can anyone suggest the > correct way to do this? The answers may be found here: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-kernel.en.html IIRC make-ing the kernel is handled by make-kpkg and you don't run make yourself... those twelve hours may have been for naught. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 13:08:50 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:08:50 -0400 Subject: Compaq LTE 5200 In-Reply-To: <42B46C47.2090402-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B054C8.6010607@execulink.com> <20050615212258.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1AB32.30409@execulink.com> <20050616165053.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B1C384.4030204@execulink.com> <20050616203227.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B46C47.2090402@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050620130849.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 18, 2005 at 02:47:35PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > A world of thanks to you Lennart, it was a pleasure to install Debian on > this wee bitty relic. It weren't totally without some problems though. > Like Aptitude (during base-config) didn't mind one bit that I chose more > packages than my disk could handle. That was install attempt #1. Attempt > #2 was going well cause I only chose packages in 100MB chunks, then it > quit with "Something Bad Happened!" During attempt #3 the same thing > occured and I figured out that it was the debsig-verify package causing > the aborts. I removed it til I figure out if I missed something about > the mirrored DEB's not being signed or if I just need to import thae > actual keys. I thought they would be in the Debian-keyring. debsig is a good idea, but unfortunately most debian package maintainers don't sign their packages, and of course anything build by the build daemon's isn't signed by the maintainer either, so over all at this time, deb-sigs just doesn't work in general. > Anyhow the system is installed and stable and with 700MB to spare. But > before I can configured it as a tinyhoneypot toy, I got to fix some > minor bugs (me newbie bugs): > > 1) Why do so many .debs contain %3a in their filenames (I'm guessing > it's a colon)? The version number sometimes contains an epoch value, which makes the version: epoch:versionnumber THey use that when someone goofs on a version number and makes it something where the next version is lower than the last version they did (liek doing 1.2beta and then releasing 1.2 final version and realizing 1.2beta is higher than 1.2 in the way version numbers are calculated (after all 1.2b is higher than 1.2a is higher than 1.2 when you look at util-linux and such). When this happens, the fix is sometimes done as 1.2final, or they will do 1:1.2 to set an epoch value. the epoch overides anything else in the version number, so 1:1.0 is higher than 1.0 and 2:1.0 is higher than 1:3.6. They use url encoding in the filenames when apt downloads them through http. You should never have to care about that in general. > 2) I have enabled myself (sole user) to receive root's mail as suggested > by the install. I am using elmo to read the mail, but cannot delete any > of the messages. I am trying to nail down an approprite package for > system checks so I'm trying out a few of similar purpose before I > decide. Fcheck, samhain and logcheck are sending mail and I'd like to be > able to keep up with them. I've got to be able to delete the READ > messages. Neither the key not "r" work. And when I reopen elmo > everything reappears as UNREAD. You should be able to delete your own mail. I have never seen that not work, although I haven't used elm in years since mutt is much better (from what I have read even the author of elm uses mutt himself). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 15:49:40 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:49:40 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices Message-ID: <1119282580.1502.22.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Hey, Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. Thanks. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 16:07:01 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:07:01 -0400 Subject: Debian Build In-Reply-To: <20050620132335.GB9925-5ttTcWKSjlT77SC2UrCW1FMQynFLKtET@public.gmane.org> References: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> <20050620132335.GB9925@seahorse.localdomain> Message-ID: <42B6E9A5.7020702@execulink.com> Andy Jack wrote: >On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 09:28:59AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > > >>I have not done make install. I'd like to package them as .debs and >>install but I know little of the Debian packager. Can anyone suggest the >>correct way to do this? >> >> > >The answers may be found here: > >http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-kernel.en.html > >IIRC make-ing the kernel is handled by make-kpkg and you don't run make >yourself... those twelve hours may have been for naught. > > It looks that way, EH? So what do I do then; make clean make mproper or something and start over? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 16:10:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:10:10 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices In-Reply-To: <1119282580.1502.22.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1119282580.1502.22.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <42B6EA62.3040705@rogers.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a > pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless > scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to > http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help > would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. The browser contains info on itself and the OS it's running on. That would be sufficient for a web site to do what you describe. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:36:08 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:36:08 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices In-Reply-To: <42B6EA62.3040705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1119282580.1502.22.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <42B6EA62.3040705@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/20/05, James Knott wrote: > Devin Whalen wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a > > pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless > > scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to > > http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help > > would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. Some googling "apache browser redirect headers device" provides: http://developer.openwave.com/dvl/support/documentation/technical_notes/clientdevice.htm -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:41:38 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:41:38 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices Message-ID: I believe you need to look into the JS domain for this one. It will be under UserAgent AppName AppVersion Platform Should be pretty well defined in any JavaScript howto. ~/Chris >>> devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org 6/20/05 11:49:40 am >>> Hey, Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. Thanks. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:43:36 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:43:36 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices In-Reply-To: References: <1119282580.1502.22.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <42B6EA62.3040705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1119289416.1502.37.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Hey, Thanks guys, that is a good link. Tells me exactly where too look. I would much rather be able to check on the server then to check through javascript after the page loads. Later On Mon, 2005-06-20 at 13:36 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/20/05, James Knott wrote: > > Devin Whalen wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a > > > pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless > > > scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to > > > http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help > > > would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. > > Some googling "apache browser redirect headers device" provides: > http://developer.openwave.com/dvl/support/documentation/technical_notes/clientdevice.htm > > -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:50:56 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:50:56 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices Message-ID: actually, you're right. I didn't even think to just look in the http headers good luck ;-) >>> devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org 6/20/05 1:43:36 pm >>> Hey, Thanks guys, that is a good link. Tells me exactly where too look. I would much rather be able to check on the server then to check through javascript after the page loads. Later On Mon, 2005-06-20 at 13:36 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/20/05, James Knott wrote: > > Devin Whalen wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a > > > pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless > > > scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to > > > http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help > > > would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. > > Some googling "apache browser redirect headers device" provides: > http://developer.openwave.com/dvl/support/documentation/technical_notes/clientdevice.htm > > -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:51:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:51:40 -0400 Subject: Debian Build In-Reply-To: <42B6C49B.40507-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050620175140.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 09:28:59AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I had a littls fun with the Compaq 5200LTE over the weekend in a temp > DMZ. It performs OK considering all the crap on the wire. This was my > first peek outside the router in over a year...Yikes! > > So now I'm getting down to business with the kernel. I grabbed > linux-2.6.11.6 and iptables-1.3.1 unpacked them in /usr/src and ran > Patch-o-Matic. I enabled a couple features with ./runme extra. I did > make for the tables which didn't take too long and then I started make > for the kernel which is still working twelve hours later. Make is in > net/ipv6 right now and I expect it won't take too much longer. > > I have not done make install. I'd like to package them as .debs and > install but I know little of the Debian packager. Can anyone suggest the > correct way to do this? After you do make menuconfig (or whatever your choice of config method is) you do this: make-kpkg --append_to_version -MYNAME --revision 1.0 --bzimage kernel-image Where MYNAME is whatever you want to add to the kernel name to identify it. Debian tends to use -sourceversion-cputype like -2-686 for second release of that kernel version compiled for 686 cpu. You could call it whatever you want. You can make the revision whatever you want to, it identifies the version of the compile if you want to be able to tell the difference between the config now and the config tomowwor if you go change something. The .deb's should be in the parent dir of the kernel source. I tend to also add --initrd but I use kernel source with cramfs initrd support which is what debian's initrdtools use, while a kernel.org source won't support that and hence won't work with the initrdtools on debian without some modifications. If you use kernel.org sources, you probably don't use initrd. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 17:54:05 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:54:05 -0400 Subject: Debian Build In-Reply-To: <42B6E9A5.7020702-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> <20050620132335.GB9925@seahorse.localdomain> <42B6E9A5.7020702@execulink.com> Message-ID: <20050620175405.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 12:07:01PM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > It looks that way, EH? So what do I do then; make clean make mproper or > something and start over? make clean Doing mrproper would wipe out your config, which you want to keep. You can even do: make-kpkg clean (probably the best choice). That does the right thing too. Of course there is no reason what so ever not to build it on the fastest debian machine you have and just copy the resulting .deb to the target machine since it is just a single file after all. Keeping the configured/build kernel source around in case you want to build modules against it might be handy, although for your current machine that is probably unlikely to be needed. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 18:18:17 2005 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:18:17 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1119291497.1502.41.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> On Mon, 2005-06-20 at 13:50 -0400, Chris Friedt wrote: > actually, you're right. I didn't even think to just look in the http > headers > > good luck ;-) > This is what I get though: HTTP ACCEPT:*/* USER_AGENT:Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320) Http Accept is useless. I guess I will just have to grep the USER_AGENT for Windows CE, that is all we are dealing with right now, but it is not what I was hoping for. Oh well, I can at least get it too work. I just hope my client doesn't change devices any time soon :(. Later > >>> devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org 6/20/05 1:43:36 pm >>> > Hey, > > Thanks guys, that is a good link. Tells me exactly where too look. I > would much rather be able to check on the server then to check through > javascript after the page loads. > > Later > > > On Mon, 2005-06-20 at 13:36 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > On 6/20/05, James Knott wrote: > > > Devin Whalen wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website > using a > > > > pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a > wireless > > > > scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to > > > > http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? > Any help > > > > would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. > > > > Some googling "apache browser redirect headers device" provides: > > > http://developer.openwave.com/dvl/support/documentation/technical_notes/clientdevice.htm > > > > > -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 543 Richmond Street West Toronto, Ontario Suite 223 M5V 1Y6 Box 105 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 20 18:55:14 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:55:14 -0400 Subject: Detecting handheld devices In-Reply-To: <1119289416.1502.37.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1119282580.1502.22.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <42B6EA62.3040705@rogers.com> <1119289416.1502.37.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <42B71112.2080607@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The http get / post should have an HTTP_AGENT defined. Take a look at BrowserMatch and Redirect under apache configs. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > Thanks guys, that is a good link. Tells me exactly where too look. I > would much rather be able to check on the server then to check through > javascript after the page loads. > > Later > > > On Mon, 2005-06-20 at 13:36 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > >>On 6/20/05, James Knott wrote: >> >>>Devin Whalen wrote: >>> >>>>Hey, >>>> >>>>Does anyone know how to detect if someone goes to your website using a >>>>pda or a handheld device? When I go to www.ibm.com/ on a wireless >>>>scanner device ibm automatically redirects me to >>>>http://wireless.ibm.com/us/ . Can you detect this in Apache? Any help >>>>would be appreciated, even just a link to a good site. >> >>Some googling "apache browser redirect headers device" provides: >>http://developer.openwave.com/dvl/support/documentation/technical_notes/clientdevice.htm >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCtxERgfzn5SevSpoRAhV9AJ0e03xUuCo64J/zRx/nLmP6xyBupQCfe7dP SqxByJwGG+ZP15MAC7J/lK8= =Tcfz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 05:39:27 2005 From: Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steven Nagy) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:39:27 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration Message-ID: <20050621053932.7AFF41214C2@acheron.ss.org> Hi everybody, Can somebody help me a site name, where could I register a ".com" domain name, which is not so expensive and it's reliable? Thank you, Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 05:56:23 2005 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:56:23 +0800 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool In-Reply-To: <200506160734.18325.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200506160734.18325.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200506211356.23487.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Thursday 16 June 2005 19:34, Marc Lijour wrote: > On June 16, 2005 05:29, JM wrote: > > Hi, > > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS > > Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. > > Can I ask why do you want a web based application? so it can be readily available to the public... just incase someone want to look at the status of the project.. > Thank you. > > > tia, > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 06:00:27 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:00:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Web based project management tool In-Reply-To: <200506211356.23487.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200506161729.33809.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200506160734.18325.marc@lijour.net> <200506211356.23487.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200506210200.28038.marc@lijour.net> On June 21, 2005 01:56, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > On Thursday 16 June 2005 19:34, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On June 16, 2005 05:29, JM wrote: > > > Hi, > > > Can anyone recommend a web based project management tool similar to MS > > > Project's capabilities and possibly much more.. > > > > Can I ask why do you want a web based application? > > so it can be readily available to the public... just incase someone want to > look at the status of the project.. Ok. It makes sense :-) > > > Thank you. > > > > > tia, > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 12:05:00 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:05:00 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration Message-ID: Are you doing your own hosting? or would you rather put it up on a remote server? You can register your domain virtually anywhere, and almost anywhere you'd have it managed by Verisign. They're one of the larger name service providers. I use a service called No-IP, which allows me to have a registered domain without a static IP. Something similar is Dyn-DNS.org or something like that. You can register through them as well, and it's good if you're hosting things on your linux box. Both of these companies just offer pointing services for those who have small to medium size businesses and subscribe to Rogers or the like with DHCP leases. They're fast, reliable, cheap(?), and somewhat helpful if you have any bugs. ~/Chris >>> Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 6/21/05 1:39:27 am >>> Hi everybody, Can somebody help me a site name, where could I register a ".com" domain name, which is not so expensive and it's reliable? Thank you, Steven -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 14:13:31 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:13:31 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions Message-ID: Hello All, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on linux compatible flash memory for use with both linux and windows? Does it matter which brand I buy or do they all work equally with linux? Is there a page which rates linux compatibility of flash-memory similar to the one for printers? Are there any local downtown Toronto stores that you suggest buying from? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 14:37:21 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:37:21 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621143721.GA2108@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 10:13:31AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > >Hello All, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on linux >compatible flash memory for use with both linux and windows? Does it >matter which brand I buy or do they all work equally with linux? Is there >a page which rates linux compatibility of flash-memory similar to the one >for printers? Are there any local downtown Toronto stores that you >suggest buying from? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Alex Flash memory is completely Linux-compatible. If you leave the formatting of the media as FAT16 or FAT32 (however you buy it) then it will work on both Linux and Windoze. You can look at various web sites you can find different prices. Canada Computers has pretty consistently excellent prices, but the Spadina/College area stores provide some of the best competition-based values in the city. USB2 is nice if you get larger media. I have standardized on SD cards, which are reasonably priced, pretty fast, small, light and inter-operate with camera, MP3 player, PDA etc, but you know better what you need. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 14:41:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:41:12 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 10:13:31AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Hello All, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on linux > compatible flash memory for use with both linux and windows? Does it > matter which brand I buy or do they all work equally with linux? Is there > a page which rates linux compatibility of flash-memory similar to the one > for printers? Are there any local downtown Toronto stores that you > suggest buying from? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Alex Well there are lots of usb-storage compatible memory sticks for usb and almost all of them do work with linux just fine. Some are much better designed than others though. Some do proper wear leveling so that updating the file allocation map of the filesystem doesn't destroy the flash, while others do not. I have seen reports of people having a 1G usb key destroyed writing one 700M file to it because FC turns on sync by default on removeable media, and updating the FAT entries once per 4k cluster written was just to much for the flash to handle. So make sure you do NOT use sync with flash media (it makes it slow and may destroy the cheaper designs too quickly). If possible make sure it does wear leveling in the hardware to make your flash last much longer. As for compatibility with windows, it supports usb-storage the same as linux (well 2k and xp and newer do at least). As long as the key is formated with VFAT it should work fine with both. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:02:02 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:02:02 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <20050621143721.GA2108-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621143721.GA2108@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <42B82BEA.90804@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > Flash memory is completely Linux-compatible. If you leave the > formatting of the media as FAT16 or FAT32 (however you buy it) then it > will work on both Linux and Windoze. My pen drive was originally FAT16, but I reformated it as FAT32. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:05:56 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:05:56 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <20050621144112.GH23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: After my old flash drive snapped in half I picked up an iPod Shuffle. It comes preformatted as FAT32 and I've successfully used it to move files between Windows, Mac OS X and GNU/Linux. Also, GTKpod supports the shuffle, so you can actually use it for music! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:09:52 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <20050621143721.GA2108-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621143721.GA2108@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > Flash memory is completely Linux-compatible. Perhaps not quite. A while ago, I ran into a Verbatim flash key that made one particular Linux system hang during mount -- I never had a chance to investigate further (e.g., trying it on other systems) and find out what was going on. I've had no trouble with any others, though. One possibly-interesting brand is Kingmax. I've done some light testing on them, with no problems; haven't used them heavily yet. The feature of note on them is that they have a physical write-protect switch, which is sometimes a very useful thing. > If you leave the > formatting of the media as FAT16 or FAT32 (however you buy it) then it > will work on both Linux and Windoze. The only Windoze snag is that *old* versions of Windoze think they need a separate driver for each type of device -- they don't recognize USB keys as generic storage devices -- which can be a headache. Not a problem with halfway-current versions. > You can look at various web sites you can find different prices. Canada > Computers has pretty consistently excellent prices, but the > Spadina/College area stores provide some of the best competition-based > values in the city. Canada Computers has a store on College -- south side, more or less at the west end of the computer district. They carry Kingmax in particular. > USB2 is nice if you get larger media. It's pretty universal now anyway. > I have standardized on SD cards, > which are reasonably priced, pretty fast, small, light and inter-operate > with camera, MP3 player, PDA etc, but you know better what you need. There are about three flash formats which make sense: + USB keys, because every modern computer has USB ports (no adapters needed), and they're so popular that they're cheap and roomy. + Compact Flash cards, the clear winner (last I looked) on capacity and price. They *own* the high-end camera market and feature prominently in a lot of other areas too. + SD (Secure Digital) cards, rather smaller than CF and very popular in miniature devices like PDAs, where it's awkward to make room for a CF slot. The assorted other flash-card formats are all also-rans, to my thinking. Avoid locking yourself in by buying devices which use them. (If you want a write-protect switch... Some, but by no means all, USB keys have them. One or two brands of CF cards used to have them, but apparently none in current production do. All SD cards do, it's part of the specs for that format.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:29:42 2005 From: Chfriedt-0jnyayh6ARPqzrOJbVgLALDks+cytr/Z at public.gmane.org (Chris Friedt) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:29:42 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions Message-ID: almost all flash memory (except for the odd case) works well with the scsi generic disk driver (i.e. sda, sdb, etc). You should either compile this as a module and insert it upon boot, or compile directly into the kernel. I would choose option #2. In the kernel configuration It should be under Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support Make sure you have <*> SCSI disk support <*> SCSI generic support Also, under Device Drivers -> USB Support <*> EHCI HCD (USB 2.0) support <*> UHCI HCD (most Intel and VIA) support <*> USB Mass Storage support --- under here is a list of specific drivers I would recommend using a kingston memory device, works w/ generic usb storage driver. ~/Chris it should be configured into the kernel >>> amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org 6/21/05 10:13:31 am >>> Hello All, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on linux compatible flash memory for use with both linux and windows? Does it matter which brand I buy or do they all work equally with linux? Is there a page which rates linux compatibility of flash-memory similar to the one for printers? Are there any local downtown Toronto stores that you suggest buying from? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:33:41 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:33:41 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <20050621144112.GH23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42B83355.6010001@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Some do proper wear leveling so that updating the file allocation map of > the filesystem doesn't destroy the flash, while others do not. I have > seen reports of people having a 1G usb key destroyed writing one 700M > file to it because FC turns on sync by default on removeable media, and > updating the FAT entries once per 4k cluster written was just to much > for the flash to handle. > > So make sure you do NOT use sync with flash media (it makes it slow and > may destroy the cheaper designs too quickly). If possible make sure it > does wear leveling in the hardware to make your flash last much longer. I've noticed that SuSE 9.3 mounts my pen drive with sync on. Is there any way to change this? There's no entry for it in fstab. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:37:20 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:37:20 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B83430.6030403@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > There are about three flash formats which make sense: > > + USB keys, because every modern computer has USB ports (no adapters > needed), and they're so popular that they're cheap and roomy. > > + Compact Flash cards, the clear winner (last I looked) on capacity and > price. They *own* the high-end camera market and feature prominently in a > lot of other areas too. > > + SD (Secure Digital) cards, rather smaller than CF and very popular in > miniature devices like PDAs, where it's awkward to make room for a CF slot. > > The assorted other flash-card formats are all also-rans, to my thinking. > Avoid locking yourself in by buying devices which use them. One useful accessory, is a multiformat card reader, that can handle several flash storage formats. They're quite cheap these days. I recently bought one from TigerDirect, that handles 12 different formans, including PCMCIA microdrives, though some formats require an adapter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:40:05 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:40:05 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <42B83355.6010001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B83355.6010001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050621154005.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 11:33:41AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I've noticed that SuSE 9.3 mounts my pen drive with sync on. Is there > any way to change this? There's no entry for it in fstab. Fix the udev scripts I believe. As far as I have been told that is how one fixes it on FC. I don't have any auto mount stuff on Debian so I never had that problem. It used to be vfat ignored the sync flag anyhow so it never mattered, but current kernels honour it and hence can have a serious problem. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:47:30 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:47:30 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <20050621154005.GI23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B83355.6010001@rogers.com> <20050621154005.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42B83692.1080400@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 11:33:41AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>I've noticed that SuSE 9.3 mounts my pen drive with sync on. Is there >>any way to change this? There's no entry for it in fstab. > > Fix the udev scripts I believe. > > As far as I have been told that is how one fixes it on FC. I don't have > any auto mount stuff on Debian so I never had that problem. It used to > be vfat ignored the sync flag anyhow so it never mattered, but current > kernels honour it and hence can have a serious problem. Hmmm... I don't see much to change. linux:/etc/udev/scripts # ls . .. dvb.sh linux:/etc/udev/scripts # more dvb.sh #!/lib/klibc/bin/sh set -e echo $1 | /lib/klibc/bin/sed -e 's#^dvb\([0-9]\)\.\([^0-9]*\)\([0-9]\)#dvb/adapt er\1/\2\3#' exit 0 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 15:56:00 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:56:00 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: <42B83692.1080400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621144112.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B83355.6010001@rogers.com> <20050621154005.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42B83692.1080400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050621155600.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 11:47:30AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Hmmm... I don't see much to change. > > linux:/etc/udev/scripts # ls > . .. dvb.sh > linux:/etc/udev/scripts # more dvb.sh > #!/lib/klibc/bin/sh > set -e > echo $1 | /lib/klibc/bin/sed -e > 's#^dvb\([0-9]\)\.\([^0-9]*\)\([0-9]\)#dvb/adapt > er\1/\2\3#' > exit 0 You can always do: grep sync -rl /etc that should give a list of files with the word sync, and then you can look at the ones that seem plausible to see what they do. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 16:16:43 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:16:43 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621161643.GA2190@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 10:13:31AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hello All, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on linux > compatible flash memory for use with both linux and windows? Does it > matter which brand I buy or do they all work equally with linux? Not all are the same, particularly how they handle MBR. Here, you get what you pay for. I would recommend the top 2 in the market: - Apacer Handy Steno - Transcend JetFlash I have their 256MB models, and they are advertised for and work with Linux. > Is there a page which rates linux compatibility of flash-memory > similar to the one for printers? Here is superficial comparison, http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/flash.ars > Are there any local downtown Toronto stores that you suggest buying > from? http://www.infonec.com/ -- for Apacer -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 16:42:07 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:42:07 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the kernel to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is LI and beeps. Any thought on how to bring the system back? Regards, Phillip Qin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 16:47:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:47:18 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621164718.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the kernel > to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is LI and beeps. > Any thought on how to bring the system back? Remember that due to lilo's silly map file (where it stores the location of the blocks of each file it uses) feature, you MUST run the lilo command after every change (such as upgrading lilo and/or installing a new kernel and/or updating lilo.conf). You probably upgraded lilo as part of upgrading the system. Had you updated the kernel it would have asked if you wanted to rerun lilo to update the lilo map files. With grub none of that is required of course. Probably part of why debian defaults to grub in 3.1 on new installs. update-grub is also a good reason. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 16:49:48 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:49:48 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: Yeah, I forgot to run lilo after I changed lilo.conf from install=/boot/boot-menu.b To install=menu. -----Original Message----- From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org [mailto:lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 21, 2005 12:47 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the > kernel to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is LI > and beeps. Any thought on how to bring the system back? Remember that due to lilo's silly map file (where it stores the location of the blocks of each file it uses) feature, you MUST run the lilo command after every change (such as upgrading lilo and/or installing a new kernel and/or updating lilo.conf). You probably upgraded lilo as part of upgrading the system. Had you updated the kernel it would have asked if you wanted to rerun lilo to update the lilo map files. With grub none of that is required of course. Probably part of why debian defaults to grub in 3.1 on new installs. update-grub is also a good reason. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 16:54:17 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:54:17 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621165417.GA9911@sophocles> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the kernel > to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is LI and beeps. > Any thought on how to bring the system back? Use some other bootable media, such as a livecd, to boot from and mount your root partition. After fixing any problems with lilo's config, rerun lilo using that fixed config (you may need to download a copy of lilo, depending on what's on the bootdisk). Alternately, you can switch bootloaders, if you really want. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 17:15:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:15:07 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050621171507.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:49:48PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > Yeah, I forgot to run lilo after I changed lilo.conf from > install=/boot/boot-menu.b To install=menu. The simple setup solution is: apt-get install grub grub-install /dev/hda (or whatever you use for your boot loader) update-grub apt-get remove --purge lilo Then if you want debian kernels to auto add and remove when installed and removed, you make sure you have this: /etc/kernel-img.conf: do_symlinks = no relative_links = yes do_bootloader = no do_bootfloppy = no do_initrd = yes link_in_boot = no postinst_hook = /sbin/update-grub postrm_hook = /sbin/update-grub The hook lines are the key along with the line to make it not try to run lilo. This is the default setup on Debian sarge for new installs, and is just wonderful. You just have to boot your system first to get back in to fix it. A grub floppy or a rescue disk should do it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 17:27:54 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:27:54 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B84E1A.6020108@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris Friedt wrote: > Are you doing your own hosting? or would you rather put it up on a > remote server? > > You can register your domain virtually anywhere, and almost anywhere > you'd have it managed by Verisign. They're one of the larger name > service providers. Since verisign is the registry operator for .com, it's a sure thing that at some level, they'll be "managing" it. However, since .com is still a thin registry and operates in RRP, your whois data depends on your registrar and you're vulnerable to slamming and all kinds of other annoyances. If you're not married to the .com suffix, then you might want to consider .info. There are numerous technical advantages to the .info registry. It uses EPP with authentication, centralized whois, fast updates to zones, IDNs, and so on. You'd be supporting Afilias, a company that employs about 60 people in Toronto (myself included), supports TLUG (that's the Afilias projector Chris brings to most meetings), and actively contributes to free software development (Slony is a prominent example). Or you could throw in with Verisign. In terms of registrars (the company that would register the name on your behalf with the registry), I can't officially make any recommendations, but I use godaddy.com personally. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCuE4agfzn5SevSpoRAmS9AJ9EqaoljAc03ntIdWYcWHujQLUdAQCgtVl5 I4rX8reFET/5Xbzt6BmY6yw= =1c7W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 17:35:10 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:35:10 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: To rescue my system, I boots from a knoppix CD. At boot prompt, knoppix root=/dev/hda2. knoppix boots from its own boot partition. It then mounts my /dev/hda2 (my /) on /mnt/hda2, my /dev/hda1 (my /boot) on /mnt/hda1 and its /dev/root (/boot and /) on /. I tried to use lilo.real to recreate the map using my lilo.conf to no avail. lilo.real -C /mnt/hda2/etc/lilo.conf -m /mnt/hda1/boot/map Ignoring entry "map" FATAL: creat /mnt/hda1/boot/map~: No such file or directory -----Original Message----- From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org [mailto:lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 21, 2005 1:15 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:49:48PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > Yeah, I forgot to run lilo after I changed lilo.conf from > install=/boot/boot-menu.b To install=menu. The simple setup solution is: apt-get install grub grub-install /dev/hda (or whatever you use for your boot loader) update-grub apt-get remove --purge lilo Then if you want debian kernels to auto add and remove when installed and removed, you make sure you have this: /etc/kernel-img.conf: do_symlinks = no relative_links = yes do_bootloader = no do_bootfloppy = no do_initrd = yes link_in_boot = no postinst_hook = /sbin/update-grub postrm_hook = /sbin/update-grub The hook lines are the key along with the line to make it not try to run lilo. This is the default setup on Debian sarge for new installs, and is just wonderful. You just have to boot your system first to get back in to fix it. A grub floppy or a rescue disk should do it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 17:44:45 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:44:45 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: <20050621165417.GA9911@sophocles> References: <20050621165417.GA9911@sophocles> Message-ID: <20050621174445.GC16399@leftmind.net> Seneca wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the kernel > > to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is LI and beeps. > > Any thought on how to bring the system back? > > Use some other bootable media, such as a livecd, to boot from and mount > your root partition. After fixing any problems with lilo's config, > rerun lilo using that fixed config (you may need to download a copy of > lilo, depending on what's on the bootdisk). Alternately, you can switch > bootloaders, if you really want. You can usually use the copy of /sbin/lilo already on your hard drive, eg. boot from a CD or such, then: # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt # chroot /mnt /bin/bash # lilo # ^D # umount /dev/hda1 Notes: you need to know which device was your root partition, if you had a /boot you need to mount it too, the chroot command puts you into the harddrive's environment running its bash, and lilo may show errors, but hopefully you've got your favourite editor and can fix that. The control-D takes you back out to the CD boot environment so you can unmount your HD filesystem and reboot cleanly. If /boot was hda1 and root was hda3, root has to go first, so # mount /dev/hda3 /mnt # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/boot and the rest roughly as above, unmounting in reverse order. The chroot command was originally for issues like this (running one copy of the OS virtually under another), long before people started chrooting daemons for security. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 17:52:41 2005 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Phillip Qin wrote: > To rescue my system, I boots from a knoppix CD. At boot prompt, knoppix > root=/dev/hda2. knoppix boots from its own boot partition. It then mounts my > /dev/hda2 (my /) on /mnt/hda2, my /dev/hda1 (my /boot) on /mnt/hda1 and its > /dev/root (/boot and /) on /. I tried to use lilo.real to recreate the map > using my lilo.conf to no avail. > > lilo.real -C /mnt/hda2/etc/lilo.conf -m /mnt/hda1/boot/map > Ignoring entry "map" > FATAL: creat /mnt/hda1/boot/map~: No such file or directory Could be a library issue. Try this... - Use KNOPPIX to boot itself - figure out what the dead systems mountpoints were - mount them by hand into maybe /mnt/dead - try 'chroot /mnt/dead /bin/bash' to get a shell on your dead system with all the libraries where they should be - fix broken bits (in this case /etc/lilo.conf ...) - 'exit' from chroot - unmount manually-mounted filesystems - reboot to see if things are better Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Phone: (416) 863-2126 CNW Group Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 18:03:08 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: <20050621164718.GK23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621164718.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Remember that due to lilo's silly map file (where it stores the location > of the blocks of each file it uses) feature, > ... I'm curious; how does grub do it? JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 18:03:11 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:03:11 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: That's what I need. My / is on /dev/hda2 and /boot is on /dev/hda1. mounting /dev/hda2 is fine. When I was trying to mount /dev/hda1, it says Wrong fs type, superblock ...... -----Original Message----- From: Anthony de Boer [mailto:adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 21, 2005 1:45 PM To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Seneca wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the > > kernel to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is > > LI and beeps. Any thought on how to bring the system back? > > Use some other bootable media, such as a livecd, to boot from and > mount your root partition. After fixing any problems with lilo's > config, rerun lilo using that fixed config (you may need to download a > copy of lilo, depending on what's on the bootdisk). Alternately, you > can switch bootloaders, if you really want. You can usually use the copy of /sbin/lilo already on your hard drive, eg. boot from a CD or such, then: # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt # chroot /mnt /bin/bash # lilo # ^D # umount /dev/hda1 Notes: you need to know which device was your root partition, if you had a /boot you need to mount it too, the chroot command puts you into the harddrive's environment running its bash, and lilo may show errors, but hopefully you've got your favourite editor and can fix that. The control-D takes you back out to the CD boot environment so you can unmount your HD filesystem and reboot cleanly. If /boot was hda1 and root was hda3, root has to go first, so # mount /dev/hda3 /mnt # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/boot and the rest roughly as above, unmounting in reverse order. The chroot command was originally for issues like this (running one copy of the OS virtually under another), long before people started chrooting daemons for security. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 18:33:07 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:33:07 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: Almost close. I did following mounts: # mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 # mount --bind /mnt/hda1 /mnt/hda2/boot I then # chroot /mnt/hda2 /bin/bash # lilo FATAL: Open /dev/hda Permision denied -----Original Message----- From: Anthony de Boer [mailto:adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 21, 2005 1:45 PM To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Seneca wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the > > kernel to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is > > LI and beeps. Any thought on how to bring the system back? > > Use some other bootable media, such as a livecd, to boot from and > mount your root partition. After fixing any problems with lilo's > config, rerun lilo using that fixed config (you may need to download a > copy of lilo, depending on what's on the bootdisk). Alternately, you > can switch bootloaders, if you really want. You can usually use the copy of /sbin/lilo already on your hard drive, eg. boot from a CD or such, then: # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt # chroot /mnt /bin/bash # lilo # ^D # umount /dev/hda1 Notes: you need to know which device was your root partition, if you had a /boot you need to mount it too, the chroot command puts you into the harddrive's environment running its bash, and lilo may show errors, but hopefully you've got your favourite editor and can fix that. The control-D takes you back out to the CD boot environment so you can unmount your HD filesystem and reboot cleanly. If /boot was hda1 and root was hda3, root has to go first, so # mount /dev/hda3 /mnt # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/boot and the rest roughly as above, unmounting in reverse order. The chroot command was originally for issues like this (running one copy of the OS virtually under another), long before people started chrooting daemons for security. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 19:11:19 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:11:19 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks very much to everyone for all the advice! I'm glad to hear that these work easily with linux. (I would have written back earlier but was stuck at the dentist for several hours.) Alex On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > > Flash memory is completely Linux-compatible. > > Perhaps not quite. A while ago, I ran into a Verbatim flash key that made > one particular Linux system hang during mount -- I never had a chance to > investigate further (e.g., trying it on other systems) and find out what > was going on. > > I've had no trouble with any others, though. > > One possibly-interesting brand is Kingmax. I've done some light testing > on them, with no problems; haven't used them heavily yet. The feature of > note on them is that they have a physical write-protect switch, which is > sometimes a very useful thing. > > > If you leave the > > formatting of the media as FAT16 or FAT32 (however you buy it) then it > > will work on both Linux and Windoze. > > The only Windoze snag is that *old* versions of Windoze think they need a > separate driver for each type of device -- they don't recognize USB keys > as generic storage devices -- which can be a headache. Not a problem with > halfway-current versions. > > > You can look at various web sites you can find different prices. Canada > > Computers has pretty consistently excellent prices, but the > > Spadina/College area stores provide some of the best competition-based > > values in the city. > > Canada Computers has a store on College -- south side, more or less at the > west end of the computer district. They carry Kingmax in particular. > > > USB2 is nice if you get larger media. > > It's pretty universal now anyway. > > > I have standardized on SD cards, > > which are reasonably priced, pretty fast, small, light and inter-operate > > with camera, MP3 player, PDA etc, but you know better what you need. > > There are about three flash formats which make sense: > > + USB keys, because every modern computer has USB ports (no adapters > needed), and they're so popular that they're cheap and roomy. > > + Compact Flash cards, the clear winner (last I looked) on capacity and > price. They *own* the high-end camera market and feature prominently in a > lot of other areas too. > > + SD (Secure Digital) cards, rather smaller than CF and very popular in > miniature devices like PDAs, where it's awkward to make room for a CF slot. > > The assorted other flash-card formats are all also-rans, to my thinking. > Avoid locking yourself in by buying devices which use them. > > (If you want a write-protect switch... Some, but by no means all, USB > keys have them. One or two brands of CF cards used to have them, but > apparently none in current production do. All SD cards do, it's part of > the specs for that format.) > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 19:03:30 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:03:30 -0400 Subject: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: <20050621164718.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050621190330.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 02:03:08PM -0400, John Vetterli wrote: > I'm curious; how does grub do it? When you install grub, it places a stage1 in the MBR or partition boot sector you point it at, and adds a stage 1.5 loader into whatever part of the fileystem has space reserved for boot loader code (as far as I understand it, at least the file goes in /boot/grub/stagewhatever in many cases) and the stage1 is modified to point at the right location to read the stage1.5/stage2 code. Once it has read that code (which is never changed really, unless you rerun the grub installer command), it has the ability to read the filesystem directly, and does everything else by filename, such as reading the current /boot/grub/menu.lst and /boot/kernel... and whatever. Since it reads the config and kernels at runtime using the filesystem, it doesn't have to update any map files everytime a kernel or config changes. It only has to map the location of the stage1.5/stage2 code which is done at install time. Upgrading the grub package on your system doesn't touch /boot/grub/stage* unlike lilo which does upgrade /boot/*.b causing the map file to invalid and hence require lilo be run again to update the map of blocks for the boot loader code. If the lilo command copied the *.b files to /boot and then mapped them, then it wouldn't break on upgrades, only when you change the kernel files and other files it has a map pointing too. So the key is to have filesystem reading code rather than a block map. Of course this means lilo can run on any filesystem linux can give it block numbers for (and which doesn't tailpack or other weird half block usage schemes), while grub only works on filesystems it understands natively, which fortunately is quite a few by now. To make a nice grub boot disk you can do this: cat /boot/grub/stage[12] > /dev/fd0 with a formatted floppy in the drive. That will then boot to a grub prompt where you can do things like: root (hd0,0) # pick first partition of first hd found kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-2-686 root=/dev/hda1 single # Pick kernel file and set arguments for kernel to use, like single user and root filesystem to use initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.8-2-686 # set initrd file to use boot # boot system with the current options or rootnoverify (hd0,0) chainloader +1 boot To boot from the boot sector of whatever is on the first partition of the first hd without trying to even read the filesystem (in case of unsupported ntfs versions, hpfs and other such things). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 19:06:57 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:57 -0400 Subject: FW:Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Message-ID: Finally... Thank you Anthony. Here is the simple solution: boot from any live CD or boot disk # mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 -o dev # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 # mount --bind /mnt/hda1 /mnt/hda2/boot # chroot /mnt/hda2 /bin/bash # lilo -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Qin [mailto:Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org] Sent: June 21, 2005 2:33 PM To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Almost close. I did following mounts: # mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 # mount --bind /mnt/hda1 /mnt/hda2/boot I then # chroot /mnt/hda2 /bin/bash # lilo FATAL: Open /dev/hda Permision denied -----Original Message----- From: Anthony de Boer [mailto:adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org ] Sent: June 21, 2005 1:45 PM To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rescure - Debian LILO failure after upgraded to 3.1 Seneca wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 12:42:07PM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > > I upgraded my debian from 3.0 to 3.1 sarge but I didn't upgrade the > > kernel to sarge's 2.4 kernel. I rebooted my server and all I see is > > LI and beeps. Any thought on how to bring the system back? > > Use some other bootable media, such as a livecd, to boot from and > mount your root partition. After fixing any problems with lilo's > config, rerun lilo using that fixed config (you may need to download a > copy of lilo, depending on what's on the bootdisk). Alternately, you > can switch bootloaders, if you really want. You can usually use the copy of /sbin/lilo already on your hard drive, eg. boot from a CD or such, then: # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt # chroot /mnt /bin/bash # lilo # ^D # umount /dev/hda1 Notes: you need to know which device was your root partition, if you had a /boot you need to mount it too, the chroot command puts you into the harddrive's environment running its bash, and lilo may show errors, but hopefully you've got your favourite editor and can fix that. The control-D takes you back out to the CD boot environment so you can unmount your HD filesystem and reboot cleanly. If /boot was hda1 and root was hda3, root has to go first, so # mount /dev/hda3 /mnt # mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/boot and the rest roughly as above, unmounting in reverse order. The chroot command was originally for issues like this (running one copy of the OS virtually under another), long before people started chrooting daemons for security. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 20:41:53 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:41:53 -0400 Subject: USB Flash Memory suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B87B91.6040209@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > Thanks very much to everyone for all the advice! I'm glad to hear > that these work easily with linux. (I would have written back earlier > but was stuck at the dentist for several hours.) Well, as long as you were having fun... ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 22:09:56 2005 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:09:56 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration In-Reply-To: <20050621053932.7AFF41214C2-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621053932.7AFF41214C2@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050621220956.GA9918@thecat.localnet> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 01:39:27AM -0400, Steven Nagy wrote: > Hi everybody, > > > > Can somebody help me a site name, where could I register a ".com" domain > name, which is not so expensive and it's reliable? I've used www.lowcostdomains.ca for several .com, .ca, and .org registrations over the past couple of years - no complaints so far. As noted above, they are strictly a registrar - you have to find your own DNS and hosting services (So far I've been using the forwarding and dynamic DNS facilities of www.zoneedit.com - free for up to 5 domains). Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From torontonian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 22:18:34 2005 From: torontonian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stuart Williams) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:18:34 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration In-Reply-To: <20050621053932.7AFF41214C2-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621053932.7AFF41214C2@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <49aa37ca0506211518678ff6b9@mail.gmail.com> I've been using baremetal.com as a .ca registrar... they have a Canada Day sale on at the moment, and new .ca registrations are 12.99CDN. Their normal pricing is 14.95CDN/year if I recall correctly. Stuart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 21 23:27:29 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:27:29 -0400 Subject: (HOWTO) NFS-root + thin-client + Slackware Message-ID: <20050621232729.GA2152@node1.opengeometry.net> Here is copy of what I posted to . As you know I do Linux thin-client on USB key. Recently, I needed to boot a 486 machine using floppy and mount NFS-root from server, because it didn't have USB or harddisk. Here is short outline of what I did. It assumes Slackware, but idea will apply to other Linux distro. 1. Compile kernel with - IP: kernel level autoconfiguration - IP: BOOTP support - IP: DHCP support - IP: RARP support - NFS file system support - Root file system on NFS - your ethernet card (mine is 3c905C) 2. Make boot floppy. First, create 'lilo.conf' with boot=/dev/fd0 compact map=map backup=/dev/null image=vmlinuz append="ip=dhcp" root=/dev/nfs read-write # no need to fsck label=linux If you don't have /dev/nfs, then make it, mknod /dev/nfs b 0 255 Then, format/make boot floppy, fdformat /dev/fd0u1440 mke2fs /dev/fd0 mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy cp lilo.conf vmlinuz /mnt/floppy cd /mnt/floppy lilo -C lilo.conf Don't forget to unmount it. 3. Create root filesystem on the server under '/tftpboot/node200', assuming the client name is 'node200'. This is the usual location, but can be changed by DHCP. Essentially, it's what the client machine see as '/' when it runs. I copied the root fileystem that I use for my ThinFlash. But, for you, the best way is to install fresh Linux into /tftpboot/node200 And, edit /etc/fstab /dev/nfs / nfs defaults 0 0 to tell the system that kernel has already mounted the root filesystem over NFS. 4. If you have many client machines (like I do), then you need to duplicate the root filesystem for every machine. In order to reduce maintenance, empty out /lib/modules /usr because their contents are the same for all clients and server, so you can share (ie. NFS mount) them at runtime. My root filesystem reduces to 24MB. To do that, add the following to /etc/fstab, 192.168.1.1:/usr /usr nfs ro 0 0 192.168.1.1:/lib/modules /lib/modules nfs ro 0 0 Change /etc/rc.d/rc.S to mount them very early. Relevant portion is if egrep '^/dev/nfs\>' /etc/fstab > /dev/null; then /bin/rm -f /etc/mtab* # clean start /sbin/mount -w -o remount / # initialize new /etc/mtab /sbin/mount -a -v -t proc egrep '^(domain|nameserver)' /proc/net/pnp > /etc/resolv.conf /sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1 /sbin/route add -net 127.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 lo if [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.portmap ]; then /etc/rc.d/rc.portmap start fi /sbin/mount -a -v -t nfs # finally, mount NFS > /etc/HOSTNAME # to prevent rc.M using it else # ... Skip all 'fsck' section, and /etc/mtab initialization. fi 5. Configure /etc/dhcpd.conf on the server. Relevant portion is option domain-name "example.net"; option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0; option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255; option domain-name-servers 192.168.1.1; option routers 192.168.1.1; # gateway subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { # -- required # Empty 'range' means BOOTP protocol will be used. # range 192.168.1.100 192.168.1.199; } use-host-decl-names on; # send back "hostname" to client host node4 { # BOOTP assignment hardware ethernet xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx; # MAC address fixed-address 192.168.1.200; option root-path "/tftpboot/node200"; } And, restart 'dhcpd'. 6. Boot the client machine, using boot floppy. Enjoy! -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux.gentoo.user-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 13:11:19 2005 From: linux.gentoo.user-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Wells) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:11:19 -0400 Subject: so the dmca won in Canada ?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f7ae1ac0506220611485fc991@mail.gmail.com> No, it won. On 6/10/05, Mike Newman wrote: > On 6/9/05, Peter wrote: > > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/home.php#418 > > It's not won yet. Remember that summer vacation is coming up! When > it's over and there's two months of real work piled up they may just > forget about it. > > However, I think that all GTALUG members should send some snail mail > to their MP and tell them why this new legislation is a bad idea. I > wrote my MP when the CRIA staged a "protest" outside parliament a few > months ago, and I was surprised to learn that he has a fairly > progressive attitude towards copyrights. > > Do it! And make sure that there's another letter waiting for them when > they get back. > > -- > Get Firefox - Take back the Web > http://www.getfirefox.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 15:22:09 2005 From: allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:22:09 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator Message-ID: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 16:21:48 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:21:48 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Hey guys, Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does by default. If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html you can surf to that file like this: http://www.me.com/myfile.html but transparently you can also use: http://www.me.com/myfile and you get the same file. My client wants to turn off this "feature" because it is "Ruining the web reports". I've read: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it didn't. Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. david -- Let one walk alone, committing no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 17:22:40 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:22:40 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9901C.8050302-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42B99E60.4090100@interlog.com> David Thornton wrote: > Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. > I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does by > default. > > If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html > > you can surf to that file like this: > > http://www.me.com/myfile.html > > but transparently you can also use: > > http://www.me.com/myfile > > and you get the same file. What version of Apache are you running? I just tried the above with Apache 2.0.52 running on my machine. I got a 404 error trying to pull up /index from a directory but /index.html worked. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 17:38:17 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:38:17 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9901C.8050302-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, David Thornton wrote: > Hey guys, > > Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. > I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does by > default. > > If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html > > you can surf to that file like this: > > http://www.me.com/myfile.html > > but transparently you can also use: > > http://www.me.com/myfile > > and you get the same file. > > My client wants to turn off this "feature" because it is "Ruining the > web reports". > > I've read: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html > > and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it > didn't. > > Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. David, A wise man once said, "Use the logs, Luke!" OK, it was actually a co-worker, and my name's not Luke. Serioiusly, though, a great deal can be figured out by looking at the log files, specifically the access_log (or whatever it's called in your system). Try getting index.html, and then just try getting index. See what the browser logs for each request. If necessary, crank up the message level for the web server (don't forget to turn it back down afterwards). And, of course, you'll have to restart Apache for the changes to be effective. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 17:43:05 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:43:05 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119453729.8379.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> Vince Fry wrote: >Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu >on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a >replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of >video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > >Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > The Dell keyboard that I got with my Inspiron 8600 has a built in USB port replicator and I've never had any problems with it working on FC3. Not sure if that was just luck or generally expected behaviour. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 17:47:01 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:47:01 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <42B9A329.9040709-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > Vince Fry wrote: > > >Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu > >on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a > >replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of > >video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > > >Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > > > > > The Dell keyboard that I got with my Inspiron 8600 has a built in USB > port replicator and I've never had any problems with it working on FC3. > Not sure if that was just luck or generally expected behaviour. They're generally known as "USB Hubs" and are quite standard. If one didn't work with Linux, it'd have no business working with Windows or OSX either. There are two varieties of hub: powered and unpowered. The former has a wall wart, and the latter just sits on the USB bus. Depending on what kinds of devices you intend to plug in, and how many USB hubs you intend to use (daisy-chained) this might make a difference. If the only peripherals you use are keyboard, mouse, and self-powered printer and scanner, any random USB hub should work just fine. If you have a USB-powered scanner, webcam, and Midiman, you might consider getting a powered hub. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 17:57:17 2005 From: allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:57:17 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1119463037.8379.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> I was actually thinking about this: http://www.targus.com/ca/product_details.asp?sku=ACP50CA I contacted Targus, but, unsurprisingly, they claim it only supports 'Doze. Taavi, if I'm understanding you correctly, this would just act as a USB hub? Vince On Wed, 2005-22-06 at 13:47 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/22/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > > Vince Fry wrote: > > > > >Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu > > >on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a > > >replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of > > >video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > > > > >Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > > > > > > > > > The Dell keyboard that I got with my Inspiron 8600 has a built in USB > > port replicator and I've never had any problems with it working on FC3. > > Not sure if that was just luck or generally expected behaviour. > > They're generally known as "USB Hubs" and are quite standard. If one > didn't work with Linux, it'd have no business working with Windows or > OSX either. > > There are two varieties of hub: powered and unpowered. The former has > a wall wart, and the latter just sits on the USB bus. Depending on > what kinds of devices you intend to plug in, and how many USB hubs you > intend to use (daisy-chained) this might make a difference. If the > only peripherals you use are keyboard, mouse, and self-powered printer > and scanner, any random USB hub should work just fine. If you have a > USB-powered scanner, webcam, and Midiman, you might consider getting a > powered hub. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 18:11:54 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:11:54 -0400 Subject: so the dmca won in Canada ?! In-Reply-To: <1f7ae1ac0506220611485fc991-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f7ae1ac0506220611485fc991@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, David Wells wrote: > No, it won. It's past the first reading. Now it goes to the Senate, so it can be passed back to the House of Commons, so it can go back to the Senate, so it can go back to the House of Commons AGAIN for announcement. It's not over. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 18:19:11 2005 From: kioskfan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B B) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119463037.8379.11.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119463037.8379.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050622181912.180.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com> Did you notice this dock comes with a 4MB .exe driver. Judging by the size of this driver and the fact that SVGA over USB is a little obscure you are probially looking at quite an adventure getting this to work with linux. Did you ask Targus? Is the source code for the driver sitting on the Targus site somewhere? Even with the source I doubt it will provide much more than a road map of what has to be done it get it working in Linux. You could try wine but don't expect much as I suspect the driver would be pretty low level. --- Vince Fry wrote: > I was actually thinking about this: > http://www.targus.com/ca/product_details.asp?sku=ACP50CA > > I contacted Targus, but, unsurprisingly, they claim > it only supports > 'Doze. > > Taavi, if I'm understanding you correctly, this > would just act as a USB > hub? > > Vince > > On Wed, 2005-22-06 at 13:47 -0400, Taavi Burns > wrote: > > > On 6/22/05, Marcus Brubaker > wrote: > > > Vince Fry wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone have any experience using one of > these? I'm running Ubuntu > > > >on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just > connect it through a > > > >replicator so I can just attach one cable when > I get to work, instead of > > > >video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > > > > > > >Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Dell keyboard that I got with my Inspiron > 8600 has a built in USB > > > port replicator and I've never had any problems > with it working on FC3. > > > Not sure if that was just luck or generally > expected behaviour. > > > > They're generally known as "USB Hubs" and are > quite standard. If one > > didn't work with Linux, it'd have no business > working with Windows or > > OSX either. > > > > There are two varieties of hub: powered and > unpowered. The former has > > a wall wart, and the latter just sits on the USB > bus. Depending on > > what kinds of devices you intend to plug in, and > how many USB hubs you > > intend to use (daisy-chained) this might make a > difference. If the > > only peripherals you use are keyboard, mouse, and > self-powered printer > > and scanner, any random USB hub should work just > fine. If you have a > > USB-powered scanner, webcam, and Midiman, you > might consider getting a > > powered hub. > > > --The best way to accelerate Windows is at -9.8 m/s^2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 18:25:58 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:25:58 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9901C.8050302-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42B9AD36.5060709@quadratic.net> update: version apache 1.3.33 logs: - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:24 -0400] "GET /myfile HTTP/1.0" 200 333 "http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:25 -0400] "GET /myfile.html HTTP/1.0" 200 333 "http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" nice eh? David Thornton wrote: > Hey guys, > > Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. > I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does > by default. > > If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html > > you can surf to that file like this: > > http://www.me.com/myfile.html > > but transparently you can also use: > > http://www.me.com/myfile > > and you get the same file. > > My client wants to turn off this "feature" because it is "Ruining the > web reports". > > I've read: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html > > and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it > didn't. > > Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. > > david > -- Let one walk alone, committing no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 18:58:03 2005 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Jun 2005 14:58:03 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Taavi Burns writes: > On 6/22/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > > Vince Fry wrote: > > > > >Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu > > >on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a > > >replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of > > >video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > > > > >Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > > > > > > > > > The Dell keyboard that I got with my Inspiron 8600 has a built in USB > > port replicator and I've never had any problems with it working on FC3. > > Not sure if that was just luck or generally expected behaviour. > > They're generally known as "USB Hubs" and are quite standard. If one > didn't work with Linux, it'd have no business working with Windows or > OSX either. I wouldn't go that far. Keyboard and mouse replication as well as additional USB ports are quite standard but the rest (serial port, Ethernet, parallel port, etc.) are not and require Linux drivers. I have an older Targus model which I use with my Dell notebook; the serial port and Ethernet have Linux drivers but the parallel port is not supported. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 19:02:54 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:02:54 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119463037.8379.11.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> <1119463037.8379.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, Vince Fry wrote: > I was actually thinking about this: > http://www.targus.com/ca/product_details.asp?sku=ACP50CA > > I contacted Targus, but, unsurprisingly, they claim it only supports 'Doze. > > Taavi, if I'm understanding you correctly, this would just act as a USB > hub? GAK! That beast is totally different from what I was thinking of. Video over USB is just asking for trouble. :( The other ports, though, might have a small chance of working if you're lucky. If they did this "right", this docking station(*) should be seen first and foremost as a USB hub or "multifunction device". The USB ports really ought to work just as a USB hub. The sound inputs and outputs ought to work as standard USB Audio-class devices. You might even get lucky with the ethernet port. But the video...I've never heard of USB standard video. Hence, it's highly unlikely to have Linux support. There are enough problems getting webcams to work. :) You'd also have to expect performance to suffer quite a bit. Your video hardware has about as much bandwidth as your main memory (in many cases it has more), and even trying to stream just the framebuffer across like that is going to be painful. I'd suggest looking into an actual port replicator for your laptop. And if you laptop doesn't support one...well...perhaps that should be a consideration next time. :) (*) For it is not a port replicator; a port replicator just extends wires to sockets, this is an entirely separate device providing its own peripherals. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 19:16:12 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:16:12 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9AD36.5060709-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> <42B9AD36.5060709@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, David Thornton wrote: > update: > > version apache 1.3.33 > > logs: > > - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:24 -0400] "GET /myfile HTTP/1.0" 200 333 > "http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; > en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" > > - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:25 -0400] "GET /myfile.html HTTP/1.0" 200 > 333 "http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; > en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" > > nice eh? Yes -- now there's proof in the logs of what happened, so either Apache is running in a mode where it returns the myfile.html when asked for myfile, or perha[s there's a sym-link between myfile and myfile.html. There may be other answers as well. > David Thornton wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > > > Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. > > I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does > > by default. > > > > If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html > > > > you can surf to that file like this: > > > > http://www.me.com/myfile.html > > > > but transparently you can also use: > > > > http://www.me.com/myfile > > > > and you get the same file. > > > > My client wants to turn off this "feature" because it is "Ruining the > > web reports". > > > > I've read: > > > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html > > > > and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it > > didn't. > > > > Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. > > > > david > > > > > -- > Let one walk alone, > committing no sin with few wishes, > like an elephant in the forest. > -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 19:32:36 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:32:36 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9901C.8050302-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42B9BCD4.6010702@interlog.com> David Thornton wrote: > I've read: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html Another set of information that you may find worth looking at is: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/urlmapping.html -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 20:59:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:18 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119453729.8379.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050622205918.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 11:22:09AM -0400, Vince Fry wrote: > Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu > on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a > replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of > video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > Any help is greatly appreciated! Just how do they run video through usb? Sounds rather implausible. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 21:01:28 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:01:28 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> <42B9AD36.5060709@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42B9D1A8.9070403@quadratic.net> Yes apache is "running in a mode where it returns the myfile.html whenasked for myfile". That is the problem. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html indicates that, that is the way apache works. There are no symlinks. As for "Mapping URLs to Filesystem Locations" (http://httpd.apache.org/docs/urlmapping.html). I'm not using Alias AliasMatch mod_rewrite or mod_speling and I don't think that this is a mod_userdir issue. You guys are keeping me honest... I'll give you that. I really appreciate your willingness to jump in there and get dirty with this one. david Alex Beamish wrote: >On 6/22/05, David Thornton wrote: > > >>update: >> >>version apache 1.3.33 >> >>logs: >> >> - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:24 -0400] "GET /myfile HTTP/1.0" 200 333 >>"http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; >> en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" >> >> - - [01/Jun/2005:05:06:25 -0400] "GET /myfile.html HTTP/1.0" 200 >>333 "http://www.me.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; >> en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1" >> >>nice eh? >> >> > >Yes -- now there's proof in the logs of what happened, so either >Apache is running in a mode where it returns the myfile.html when >asked for myfile, or perha[s there's a sym-link between myfile and >myfile.html. There may be other answers as well. > > > >>David Thornton wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hey guys, >>> >>>Maybe you guys can help me out with a little trouble I'm having. >>>I have a client who wants to stop apache from doing something it does >>>by default. >>> >>>If you have a file in htdocs called myfile.html >>> >>>you can surf to that file like this: >>> >>>http://www.me.com/myfile.html >>> >>>but transparently you can also use: >>> >>>http://www.me.com/myfile >>> >>>and you get the same file. >>> >>>My client wants to turn off this "feature" because it is "Ruining the >>>web reports". >>> >>>I've read: >>> >>>http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html >>> >>>and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it >>>didn't. >>> >>>Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. >>> >>>david >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Let one walk alone, >>committing no sin with few wishes, >>like an elephant in the forest. >>-- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, committing no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- ghost in the shell 2: Innocence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 21:04:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:04:34 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119463037.8379.11.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B9A329.9040709@utoronto.ca> <1119463037.8379.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050622210434.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 01:57:17PM -0400, Vince Fry wrote: > I was actually thinking about this: > http://www.targus.com/ca/product_details.asp?sku=ACP50CA So the supported video mode is crap compared to what most modern laptops use. I also wonder what perforamnce hit you get from pumping that much data through a usb port, given most systems are not that efficient at usb transfers. > I contacted Targus, but, unsurprisingly, they claim it only supports > 'Doze. > > Taavi, if I'm understanding you correctly, this would just act as a USB > hub? It is anything but a usb hub. A usb hub converts one usb port to multiple usb ports and nothing else. Now if you were ok with connecting a few ports, you could connect a usb hub to your usb devices, so that all you had to connect to 'dock' would be video and usb (and ethernet if you don't use wireless, I certainly can not recommend using usb network devices). If you really want a single connection, get a real dock for the laptop (if one exists), since that just converts a high density connector on the laptop to the real connectors on the back of the dock, and at least on the simple ones you can just do this since it doesn't add features and hence just works. The more complex docking systems add drives and expansion slots and such, which tend to require the system off when docking, and I don't know if linux would like the concept of resuming and seeing that level of hardware change. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 22 21:10:04 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:10:04 -0400 Subject: USB Port Replicator In-Reply-To: <1119453729.8379.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1119453729.8379.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, Vince Fry wrote: > Does anyone have any experience using one of these? I'm running Ubuntu > on an Acer Aspire 1362, and would like to just connect it through a > replicator so I can just attach one cable when I get to work, instead of > video, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, etc. > > Any help is greatly appreciated! I considered these, but it seems there is only very little support. Instead I picked up a port replicator designed specifically for my laptop. Got it on ebay for rather cheap. Perhaps you might consider that instead. If you have a compaq laptop, I can give you the username of the guy I got mine from. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 00:49:36 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:49:36 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9D1A8.9070403-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> <42B9AD36.5060709@quadratic.net> <42B9D1A8.9070403@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On 6/22/05, David Thornton wrote: > Yes apache is "running in a mode where it returns the myfile.html > whenasked for myfile". That is the problem. OK. > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html indicates that, > that is the way apache works. OK. > There are no symlinks. Good. That was a wild guess, but someone has to ask these questions. > As for "Mapping URLs to Filesystem Locations" > (http://httpd.apache.org/docs/urlmapping.html). > > I'm not using > > Alias > AliasMatch > mod_rewrite > or > mod_speling > > and I don't think that this is a mod_userdir issue. Well .. I'm running out of clever ideas .. and stupid ones, for that matter. The only two remaining things i can suggest are to increase the verbosity of your logs, and to decrease the number of modules that Apache loads and runs until something drops out. > You guys are keeping me honest... I'll give you that. I really > appreciate your willingness to jump in there and get dirty with this one. It's all good for the karma .. some day you'll help me with an impossible question and I'll be in your debt. Let us know how it all works out for you. Alex ps Thought of a third avenue .. try setting up the same version of Apache on another box and see if you can duplicate the same behaviour. A,lso try it with a newer versino of Apache .. keep trying combinatinos until something falls out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 00:58:12 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:58:12 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> <42B9AD36.5060709@quadratic.net> <42B9D1A8.9070403@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <42BA0924.2020907@istop.com> After all who wrote here: This is certainly a problem of apache configuration (httpd.conf?) I would play with disabling (uncommenting) some directives and checking what happens after that, to find out what causes the problem and next to learn how to configure properly. These sorts of experiments should not though be done on a live server. zb. Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/22/05, David Thornton wrote: > >>Yes apache is "running in a mode where it returns the myfile.html >>whenasked for myfile". That is the problem. > > > OK. > > >>http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html indicates that, >>that is the way apache works. > > > OK. > > >>There are no symlinks. > > > Good. That was a wild guess, but someone has to ask these questions. > > >>As for "Mapping URLs to Filesystem Locations" >>(http://httpd.apache.org/docs/urlmapping.html). >> >>I'm not using >> >>Alias >>AliasMatch >>mod_rewrite >>or >>mod_speling >> >>and I don't think that this is a mod_userdir issue. > > > Well .. I'm running out of clever ideas .. and stupid ones, for that > matter. The only two remaining things i can suggest are to increase > the verbosity of your logs, and to decrease the number of modules that > Apache loads and runs until something drops out. > > >>You guys are keeping me honest... I'll give you that. I really >>appreciate your willingness to jump in there and get dirty with this one. > > > It's all good for the karma .. some day you'll help me with an > impossible question and I'll be in your debt. > > Let us know how it all works out for you. > > Alex > > ps Thought of a third avenue .. try setting up the same version of > Apache on another box and see if you can duplicate the same behaviour. > A,lso try it with a newer versino of Apache .. keep trying > combinatinos until something falls out. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 01:41:37 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:41:37 -0400 Subject: apache helping went I don't want it to help In-Reply-To: <42B9901C.8050302-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42B9901C.8050302@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2005, at 12:21 PM, David Thornton wrote: > I've read: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html > > and I thought that a -MultiViews in Options would do the trick but it > didn't. > > Any pointers or help would be greatly apprecaited. What if you just take MultiViews out of the configuration line entirely. I reproduced your symptoms on my local system, then edited http.conf and changed from... Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews ...to... Options Indexes FollowSymLinks That got me a 404 instead. If that doesn't work, are you sure that you're editing the Options line for the Directory or Location that matches the document folder? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 03:51:03 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:51:03 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On 6/12/05, Christopher Browne wrote: > 1. It is highly debatable whether or not hyperthreading provides > *any* improvement. Especially since hyperthreading isn't implemented correctly! "Hyper-Threading, as currently implemented on Intel Pentium Extreme Edition, Pentium 4, Mobile Pentium 4, and Xeon processors, suffers from a serious security flaw. This flaw permits local information disclosure, including allowing an unprivileged user to steal an RSA private key being used on the same machine. Administrators of multi-user systems are strongly advised to take action to disable Hyper-Threading immediately; single-user systems (i.e., desktop computers) are not affected." http://www.daemonology.net/hyperthreading-considered-harmful Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 11:21:15 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:21:15 -0400 Subject: Debian Build In-Reply-To: <20050620175140.GF23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42B6C49B.40507@execulink.com> <20050620175140.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42BA9B2B.1010503@execulink.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 09:28:59AM -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > > >>I had a littls fun with the Compaq 5200LTE over the weekend in a temp >>DMZ. It performs OK considering all the crap on the wire. This was my >>first peek outside the router in over a year...Yikes! >> >>So now I'm getting down to business with the kernel. I grabbed >>linux-2.6.11.6 and iptables-1.3.1 unpacked them in /usr/src and ran >>Patch-o-Matic. I enabled a couple features with ./runme extra. I did >>make for the tables which didn't take too long and then I started make >>for the kernel which is still working twelve hours later. Make is in >>net/ipv6 right now and I expect it won't take too much longer. >> >>I have not done make install. I'd like to package them as .debs and >>install but I know little of the Debian packager. Can anyone suggest the >>correct way to do this? >> >> > >After you do make menuconfig (or whatever your choice of config method >is) you do this: > >make-kpkg --append_to_version -MYNAME --revision 1.0 --bzimage kernel-image > >Where MYNAME is whatever you want to add to the kernel name to identify >it. Debian tends to use -sourceversion-cputype like -2-686 for second >release of that kernel version compiled for 686 cpu. You could call it >whatever you want. > >You can make the revision whatever you want to, it identifies the >version of the compile if you want to be able to tell the difference >between the config now and the config tomowwor if you go change >something. > >The .deb's should be in the parent dir of the kernel source. > >I tend to also add --initrd but I use kernel source with cramfs initrd >support which is what debian's initrdtools use, while a kernel.org >source won't support that and hence won't work with the initrdtools on >debian without some modifications. If you use kernel.org sources, you >probably don't use initrd. > >Lennart Sorensen >-- > > I gave Debian an opportunity to get this right because it was such a slick/lightening fast installer. I tried the dpkg and deb-src tools using Debians own source packages and it just plain would not work. The good news was Debians source for iptables-1.2.11 actually contained the matching patch-o-matic and true source deep inside a directory called upstream. The bad news was the included control file was miserably broken and I gave up. I'm gonna see what can be done with FreeBSD on this little LTE5200. Getting FBSD's installer to recognized the isa network card was more of a challenge than Slack or Deb because the driver is ed, not ne. And there were no checks or confirmations after setting up the card in device.hints kernel config. Then the installer forgot all of them hints post install. I still haven't made anything useful out of this short of a sniffer/logger outside the router. I'll bet if I were to adduser test and leave 22 open some goon could make /sumthin ab-useful of it! Thanks for all the help, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 12:22:10 2005 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:22:10 -0400 Subject: OT HTTPD Message-ID: <42BAA972.6090100@execulink.com> TLUG, I'm sure many of you have an httpd or two running, and keep an eye on them from time to time. Since the beginning of June or perhaps late May I began to notice an uptick in GET / HTTP/1.0 with no referer or user-agent. I also noticed these requests were accompanied by two snort alerts; COMMUNITY WEB-MISC mod_jrun overflow attempt AND (http_inspect) OVERSIZE REQUEST-URI DIRECTORY. I also learned this AM that the initial GET and the exploit are from different source ports. These are difficult to filter because of the many different sources. The default for httpd was to serve the index code 200. I tweaked the config to return a 400 with LimitRequestFieldsize 2048 but would prefer a simple 403 instead. Is there a way to do it for requests having a null user-agent? I tried BrowserMatch "^$" but it didn't work. Is this a job for SetEnvIfNoCase? And does anyone know what this thing is or what it's supposed to be doing and is it even worth the bother? httpd-2.0.50-1.0 Cheers, farmer6re9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 14:01:28 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:01:28 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 Message-ID: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have a client trying to get into port 1352 (MyPC, I think) on their (windows) server. I've added a rule to allow inbound connections to 1352 (80 was already in the iptables firewall and it works. Is there something I am missing about opening a TCP port over 1024? For what it's worth the server is SNAT'ed to an internal IP. Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 14:04:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:04:27 -0400 Subject: x86-64 box In-Reply-To: References: <200506081440.23958.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20050610024028.GA1487@node1.opengeometry.net> <1118373653.1866.5.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20050623140427.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 11:51:03PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > Especially since hyperthreading isn't implemented correctly! I have yet to see anyone say it could have been implemented in a way that prevented this "problem". The P4 HT is not the first system to have this type of problem as far as I can tell from the discusions on it so far. > "Hyper-Threading, as currently implemented on Intel Pentium Extreme > Edition, Pentium 4, Mobile Pentium 4, and Xeon processors, suffers > from a serious security flaw. This flaw permits local information > disclosure, including allowing an unprivileged user to steal an RSA > private key being used on the same machine. Administrators of > multi-user systems are strongly advised to take action to disable > Hyper-Threading immediately; single-user systems (i.e., desktop > computers) are not affected." > http://www.daemonology.net/hyperthreading-considered-harmful Many people have also looked at that and said it's a load of crap since you require the system to be in such an amzingly known state before you can learn anything at all, that it is essentially impossible to exploit it. And apparently it isn't new, it's a normal issue of being able to try and predict what some data was by how quickly it was retrievied by attacking the cache of the cpu. Supposedly multicore cpus with shared cache can be affected too, as can some SMP systems, and I think someone claimed that it might even be possible if you poked at the cache on a single cpu system you could learn something if you were scheduled alternately with the program you wanted to get information from. Seems awful complicated to me, and like way to much work. Then again there are people with too much time on their hands that will try anything to break into systems. In this case you have to actually break into the system first (or be a valid user) before you could even hope to begin to learn any crypto key bits. I think this particular issue was way overhyped. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 17:32:13 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: <42BAC0B8.8090907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a client trying to get into port 1352 (MyPC, I think) on their > (windows) server. I've added a rule to allow inbound connections to 1352 (80 > was already in the iptables firewall and it works. Is there something I am > missing about opening a TCP port over 1024? You should not see anything different when opening or SNATting a port over 1024[1]. I do this all the time. If you netcat to 1352 on the firewall do you see anything? Netcat will work with either tcp or udp. What sort of connection failure are you getting (if any)? [1] Traditional *nix makes a distinction for anything over the first 1024 ports, which actually means the distinction applies to port over 1023 not 1024. Using the standard *nix security model a non-root user is not allowed to bind ports over 1023. This has nothing to do with how iptables reacts to the port however. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 17:41:19 2005 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:41:19 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050623174119.GA29137@localhost> you have to add both a NAT rule and a FORWARD ... ACCEPT rule i sometimes forget to do the FORWARD and the result is as you explained. -tl On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 01:32:13PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a client trying to get into port 1352 (MyPC, I think) on their > > (windows) server. I've added a rule to allow inbound connections to 1352 (80 > > was already in the iptables firewall and it works. Is there something I am > > missing about opening a TCP port over 1024? > > You should not see anything different when opening or SNATting a port > over 1024[1]. I do this all the time. > > If you netcat to 1352 on the firewall do you see anything? Netcat will > work with either tcp or udp. > > What sort of connection failure are you getting (if any)? > > [1] Traditional *nix makes a distinction for anything over the first 1024 > ports, which actually means the distinction applies to port over 1023 not > 1024. Using the standard *nix security model a non-root user is not > allowed to bind ports over 1023. This has nothing to do with how iptables > reacts to the port however. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. > Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:13:03 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:13:03 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050623181303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 01:32:13PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > You should not see anything different when opening or SNATting a port > over 1024[1]. I do this all the time. > > If you netcat to 1352 on the firewall do you see anything? Netcat will > work with either tcp or udp. > > What sort of connection failure are you getting (if any)? > > [1] Traditional *nix makes a distinction for anything over the first 1024 > ports, which actually means the distinction applies to port over 1023 not > 1024. Using the standard *nix security model a non-root user is not > allowed to bind ports over 1023. This has nothing to do with how iptables > reacts to the port however. Don't you mean a non-root user is only allowed to bind above port 1023? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:16:34 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:16:34 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: <20050623174119.GA29137@localhost> References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> <20050623174119.GA29137@localhost> Message-ID: <42BAFC82.4050100@alteeve.com> ted leslie wrote: > you have to add both a NAT rule and a > FORWARD ... ACCEPT rule > > i sometimes forget to do the FORWARD and the result is as you explained. > > -tl I have a blanket FORWARD rule like so (relevant lines from 'itables-save'): -A PREROUTING -d 111.222.33.44 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.2.22 -A POSTROUTING -s 192.168.2.22 -j SNAT --to-source 111.222.33.44 -A FORWARD -i eth2 -o eth1 -j SRVIN -A FORWARD -i eth1 -o eth2 -j SRVOUT -A SRVIN -m state --state INVALID -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 5 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 9 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 10 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 15 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 16 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 17 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 18 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 8 -m limit --limit 1/sec -j ACCEPT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp --icmp-type 8 -j TREJECT -A SRVIN -p icmp -m icmp ! --icmp-type 8 -j ACCEPT -A SRVIN -m state --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT -A SRVIN -p tcp -m tcp --dport 1024:65535 -m state --state RELATED -j TCPACCEPT -A SRVIN -p udp -m udp --dport 1024:65535 -m state --state RELATED -j UDPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 22 -j TCPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j TCPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 1352 -j TCPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p udp -m udp --dport 22 -j UDPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p udp -m udp --dport 80 -j UDPACCEPT -A SRVIN -d 192.168.2.22 -p udp -m udp --dport 1352 -j UDPACCEPT -A SRVOUT -s 192.168.2.0/255.255.255.0 -o eth2 -j ACCEPT -A SRVOUT -j ACCEPT # This allows for flood protection, UDPACCEPT is the same -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -m limit --limit 20-A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -m limit --limit 20/sec -j ACCEPT -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -m limit --limit 2/sec -j LOG --log-prefix "Possible SynFlood " -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -j TREJECT -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp ! --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -j ACCEPT -A TCPACCEPT -m limit --limit 2/sec -j LOG --log-prefix "Mismatch in TCPACCEPT " -A TCPACCEPT -j TREJECT /sec -j ACCEPT -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -m limit --limit 2/sec -j LOG --log-prefix "Possible SynFlood " -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -j TREJECT -A TCPACCEPT -p tcp -m tcp ! --tcp-flags SYN,RST,ACK SYN -j ACCEPT -A TCPACCEPT -m limit --limit 2/sec -j LOG --log-prefix "Mismatch in TCPACCEPT " -A TCPACCEPT -j TREJECT Should this not do the job? Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:19:31 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:19:31 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: <20050623181303.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> <20050623181303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42BAFD33.2040000@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 01:32:13PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > >>You should not see anything different when opening or SNATting a port >>over 1024[1]. I do this all the time. >> >>If you netcat to 1352 on the firewall do you see anything? Netcat will >>work with either tcp or udp. >> >>What sort of connection failure are you getting (if any)? >> >>[1] Traditional *nix makes a distinction for anything over the first 1024 >>ports, which actually means the distinction applies to port over 1023 not >>1024. Using the standard *nix security model a non-root user is not >>allowed to bind ports over 1023. This has nothing to do with how iptables >>reacts to the port however. > > > Don't you mean a non-root user is only allowed to bind above port 1023? > > Lennart Sorensen Remember that the firewall is merely forwarding packets, in this case, not establishing connections. Does that impact on this at all? Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:21:38 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:21:38 -0400 Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42BAFDB2.2080304@alteeve.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >>Hi all, >> >> I have a client trying to get into port 1352 (MyPC, I think) on their >>(windows) server. I've added a rule to allow inbound connections to 1352 (80 >>was already in the iptables firewall and it works. Is there something I am >>missing about opening a TCP port over 1024? > > > You should not see anything different when opening or SNATting a port > over 1024[1]. I do this all the time. > > If you netcat to 1352 on the firewall do you see anything? Netcat will > work with either tcp or udp. > > What sort of connection failure are you getting (if any)? > > [1] Traditional *nix makes a distinction for anything over the first 1024 > ports, which actually means the distinction applies to port over 1023 not > 1024. Using the standard *nix security model a non-root user is not > allowed to bind ports over 1023. This has nothing to do with how iptables > reacts to the port however. > > Rob > Hi, thanks for the feedback. I am new to 'nc' so I hope I did this right. When I scan it with 'nmap' i get a 'filtered' message. akane:/home/madison# nc 111.222.33.44 1352 (UNKNOWN) [111.222.33.44] 1352 (lotusnote) : Connection timed out Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:49:20 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: <20050623181303.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> <20050623181303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Don't you mean a non-root user is only allowed to bind above port 1023? Actually no, but neither did I mean what I said (oops :) The correct rendition of the traditionl *nix security model (as it applies to port binding) is: 1. Only root may bind ports in the range 0-1023 2. Anyone may bind ports >1023 [1] The idea here is that if you are connecting to a low port (0-1023) on a remote box you can have some confidence that the box's admin was running the service. Modern *nix OSes are doing away with this for a variety of reasons: 1. It doesn't help much from a security point of view. I've seen cases where people have run a service as root to get around this problem, where they otherwise did not have to. In these cases it was actually reducing the security of the box. 2. It makes admins jump through hoops for no good reason. Eg, Like having to allow root privs just to bind the web server to tcp port 80 before dropping privs. 3. It is easy to be an admin on a *nix box now. Originally admins formed a small largely trusted clique so restricting low ports to them potentially implied some trust in the service. [1] User "nobody" may be excluded from this on some OSes. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 18:50:48 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables question, ports over 1024 In-Reply-To: <42BAFD33.2040000-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42BAC0B8.8090907@alteeve.com> <20050623181303.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42BAFD33.2040000@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > Remember that the firewall is merely forwarding packets, in this case, not > establishing connections. Does that impact on this at all? It should not impact at all. I only brought it up as you'd mentioned the magic number "1024" in relation to ports so I thought you might be wondering about this. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 19:32:36 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:32:36 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic Message-ID: Hello there. The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few years old and no longer under development.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 19:37:22 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:37:22 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: By "gnome console application" I meant "gnome panel application". -- On 6/23/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > Hello there. > > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the > commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm > happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have > not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no > active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few > years old and no longer under development.) > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Franco > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 19:39:29 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:39:29 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42bb0ff5.1ddbf671.08b2.2483@mx.gmail.com> Have you tried ntop? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco Saliola Sent: June 23, 2005 3:33 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic Hello there. The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few years old and no longer under development.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 19:41:43 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:41:43 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42bb107e.7646d79b.1447.473a@mx.gmail.com> It is highly unlikely that you would find such an application implemented as a Gnome applet. NTOP is your best bet with per protocol, and computer statistics. It is web based and very well supported. www.ntop.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco Saliola Sent: June 23, 2005 3:37 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic By "gnome console application" I meant "gnome panel application". -- On 6/23/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > Hello there. > > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the > commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm > happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have > not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no > active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few > years old and no longer under development.) > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Franco > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 19:49:01 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:49:01 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050623194901.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 03:32:36PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the > commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm > happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have > not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no > active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few > years old and no longer under development.) ipac-ng Also check out the article "Policy Routing for Fun and Profit" (a google search will find it) from last years Linux Journal. They have some stuff about measuring usage so they can change which route and what traffic speed to permit to avoid going over a certain limit. I guess if you can do that, you can easily figure out how much you have used a given month. Nice graphs generated too in that article. As for a gnome thing, well you can probably write one that shows the data colledted by the above utilities. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 20:09:31 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:09:31 -0700 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <20050623194901.GR23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050623194901.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Also, find out from your ISP exactly what and how they are measuring. If they are including different amounts of header info than you are, your numbers will not agree. -Joseph- On 6/23/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 03:32:36PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > > internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the > > commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm > > happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have > > not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no > > active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few > > years old and no longer under development.) > > ipac-ng > > Also check out the article "Policy Routing for Fun and Profit" (a google > search will find it) from last years Linux Journal. They have some > stuff about measuring usage so they can change which route and what > traffic speed to permit to avoid going over a certain limit. I guess if > you can do that, you can easily figure out how much you have used a > given month. > > Nice graphs generated too in that article. > > As for a gnome thing, well you can probably write one that shows the > data colledted by the above utilities. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 20:44:04 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:44:04 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050623204404.GA7330@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 03:32:36PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > Hello there. > > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the > commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm > happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have > not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no > active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few > years old and no longer under development.) You can alway fall back on 'ifconfig', if all else fails. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 21:33:31 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:33:31 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BB2AAB.8040202@interlog.com> Franco Saliola wrote: > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. The first tool that comes to mind for monitoring network traffic is MRTG (The Multi Router Traffic Grapher). If the device carrying the traffic supports SNMP this tool should work for you. From the MRTG web page at http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/mrtg/: The Multi Router Traffic Grapher (MRTG) is a tool to monitor the traffic load on network-links. MRTG generates HTML pages containing graphical images which provide a LIVE visual representation of this traffic. Check http://www.ee.ethz.ch/stats/mrtg/ for an example. MRTG is based on Perl and C and works under UNIX and Windows NT. MRTG is being successfully used on many sites around the net. I have used this tool in the past to get an idea on how much traffic was being seen by a web server. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 21:47:09 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:47:09 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <42BB2AAB.8040202-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42BB2AAB.8040202@interlog.com> Message-ID: <42bb2de1.49941414.2a26.63f1@mx.gmail.com> MRTG typically polls the remote device for data on a configurable basis (usually 5 secs). I will provide excellent average throughput and statistical analysis.. it won't provide an accurate figure of TOTAL bytes transferred. While it is a very cool piece of software, I am not sure if it will solve the problem. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens Sent: June 23, 2005 5:34 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic Franco Saliola wrote: > The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis > for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a > internet traffic monitoring tool. The first tool that comes to mind for monitoring network traffic is MRTG (The Multi Router Traffic Grapher). If the device carrying the traffic supports SNMP this tool should work for you. From the MRTG web page at http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/mrtg/: The Multi Router Traffic Grapher (MRTG) is a tool to monitor the traffic load on network-links. MRTG generates HTML pages containing graphical images which provide a LIVE visual representation of this traffic. Check http://www.ee.ethz.ch/stats/mrtg/ for an example. MRTG is based on Perl and C and works under UNIX and Windows NT. MRTG is being successfully used on many sites around the net. I have used this tool in the past to get an idea on how much traffic was being seen by a web server. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bogdanc-YSGFQ8SKJZVDPfheJLI6IQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 23:08:23 2005 From: bogdanc-YSGFQ8SKJZVDPfheJLI6IQ at public.gmane.org (Bogdan Chirila) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:08:23 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic References: Message-ID: <005b01c57848$bb5addc0$6600a8c0@bogdan> Hi Franco, Take a look at bandwidthd http://bandwidthd.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Bogdan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franco Saliola" To: Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic Hello there. The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few years old and no longer under development.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 23:23:19 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:23:19 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <42bb2de1.49941414.2a26.63f1-49w3T8ftje9Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42bb2de1.49941414.2a26.63f1@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42BB4467.8000308@interlog.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > MRTG typically polls the remote device for data on a configurable basis > (usually 5 secs). I will provide excellent average throughput and > statistical analysis.. it won't provide an accurate figure of TOTAL bytes > transferred. Yes, you are right. In that case Franco should take a look at a related project called RRDtool which can be found at http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/rrdtool/ One of the projects under the "RRD World" section (such as Serverstats) may be more appropriate. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 23 23:56:16 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:56:16 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <42BB4467.8000308-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42BB4467.8000308@interlog.com> Message-ID: <42bb4c24.320405b5.7114.7651@mx.gmail.com> I guess the real problem is that most software that depends on interface stats will reset the counters on interface re-init. So unless you are sure you are not going to reboot (not like you are running Win98). The cool thing about ntop is that the stats are stored separately.. and wont get reset. (dammit; I sound like I am selling the thing) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens Sent: June 23, 2005 7:23 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic Ansar Mohammed wrote: > MRTG typically polls the remote device for data on a configurable basis > (usually 5 secs). I will provide excellent average throughput and > statistical analysis.. it won't provide an accurate figure of TOTAL bytes > transferred. Yes, you are right. In that case Franco should take a look at a related project called RRDtool which can be found at http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/rrdtool/ One of the projects under the "RRD World" section (such as Serverstats) may be more appropriate. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 07:56:57 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 03:56:57 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <42bb0ff5.1ddbf671.08b2.2483-49w3T8ftje9Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42bb0ff5.1ddbf671.08b2.2483@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42BBBCC9.3050305@quadratic.net> I love iptraf Ansar Mohammed wrote: >Have you tried ntop? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco >Saliola >Sent: June 23, 2005 3:33 PM >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: [TLUG]: tool to mesaure internet traffic > >Hello there. > >The computer lab that I administer is charge on a per megabyte basis >for any internet traffic exceeding 3GB per month, so I'm looking for a >internet traffic monitoring tool. Ideally the tool will display the >commutative monthly traffic as a gnome console application, but I'm >happy with a tool that will just report to me. I've googled and I have >not had much luck. So either I don't have the correct keywords, or no >active tool exists. (I've come across some applications that are a few >years old and no longer under development.) > >Any suggestions? > >Thanks, >Franco > >-- >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 06:20:09 2005 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:20:09 +1000 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <005b01c57848$bb5addc0$6600a8c0@bogdan> References: <005b01c57848$bb5addc0$6600a8c0@bogdan> Message-ID: <1119594009.19390.12.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> On Thu, 2005-23-06 at 19:08 -0400, Bogdan Chirila wrote: > Take a look at... Also, try a search on freshmeat.net for "accounting". You'll get many entries to do with [financial] accounting, but you'll find a ton of stuff about [traffic] accounting too. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Managing Director Phone relays worldwide: Sydney +61 2 9977 6866 New York +1 646 472 5054 Toronto +1 416 848 6072 London +44 207 1019201 OPERATIONAL DYNAMICS Management Consultants specializing in strategy, organizational architecture, procedures to survive change, and performance hardening for the people and systems behind the mission critical enterprise. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 15:13:55 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:13:55 -0400 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: <1119594009.19390.12.camel-OAMJH6uiR3/YofE6TKxKeqbLt3kOZLPpOVFjX/pycg8@public.gmane.org> References: <005b01c57848$bb5addc0$6600a8c0@bogdan> <1119594009.19390.12.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: Everyone, Thank you for the suggestions. I have a lot of research to do now before I make my choice/choices. Franco -- On 6/24/05, Andrew Cowie wrote: > On Thu, 2005-23-06 at 19:08 -0400, Bogdan Chirila wrote: > > Take a look at... > > Also, try a search on freshmeat.net for "accounting". > > You'll get many entries to do with [financial] accounting, but you'll > find a ton of stuff about [traffic] accounting too. > > AfC > Sydney > > -- > Andrew Frederick Cowie > Managing Director > > Phone relays worldwide: > Sydney +61 2 9977 6866 > New York +1 646 472 5054 > Toronto +1 416 848 6072 > London +44 207 1019201 > > OPERATIONAL DYNAMICS > Management Consultants specializing in strategy, > organizational architecture, procedures to survive > change, and performance hardening for the people > and systems behind the mission critical enterprise. > > http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 21:11:00 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:11:00 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration In-Reply-To: <42B84E1A.6020108-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42B84E1A.6020108@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On 6/21/05, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > If you're not married to the .com suffix, then you might want to > consider .info. There are numerous technical advantages to the .info > registry. It uses EPP with authentication, centralized whois, fast > updates to zones, IDNs, and so on. You'd be supporting Afilias, a > company that employs about 60 people in Toronto (myself included), > supports TLUG (that's the Afilias projector Chris brings to most > meetings), and actively contributes to free software development (Slony > is a prominent example). Or you could throw in with Verisign. > > In terms of registrars (the company that would register the name on your > behalf with the registry), I can't officially make any recommendations, > but I use godaddy.com personally. It took a while to settle, but I came back to this thread to say thanks. I'm now using no-ip.com based on another recommendation, but I'm using .info based on this. http://jrandomhacker.info -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 21:54:02 2005 From: jameszhou2000-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (James Zhou) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:54:02 -0400 Subject: Domain name registration References: <42B84E1A.6020108@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On June 24, 2005 5:11 PM, sy wrote: >It took a while to settle, but I came back to this thread to say thanks. >I'm now using no-ip.com based on another recommendation, but I'm using >.info based on this. >http://jrandomhacker.info Just for your information, currently there is a promotion in godaddy.com. It says it is only $3.99 a year to register a new domain name. http://www.godaddy.com/ James Zhou -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 24 20:36:44 2005 From: denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org (Denis Casserly) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:36:44 -0400 Subject: mail list Message-ID: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> sorry to bother you about TLUG. I changed ISP's 2 weeks ago and I'm trying to get the list emailed to me every day. I tried to edit my preferences or profile, but still no list. And I didn't know there was a newtlug list also, and I think I might have contacted them by mistake. Please tell me how I can get list emailed to me every day. cheers, Denis Casserly. old email was denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org new email is denisc1-p2b/v3bBdDVeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emule-JGs/UdohzUI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 00:02:27 2005 From: emule-JGs/UdohzUI at public.gmane.org (Mig21) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:02:27 -0400 Subject: Install fest coming In-Reply-To: <200506241636.44297.denisc-MAEtQwdlj00@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> Message-ID: <42BC9F13.7000609@mail.ru> Hello I made a wiki entry (first in my life): http://www.gtalug.org/index.php/Installfests#InstallFest_at_Seneca_College_on_the_24th_of_September Could you spread the word? With your help this could be our biggest install fest ever, that would be something to remember. Cheers -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 00:03:19 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:03:19 -0400 Subject: mail list In-Reply-To: <200506241636.44297.denisc-MAEtQwdlj00@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> Message-ID: <42BC9F47.6080103@istop.com> Ha, ha, ha... : host mail.telux.net[64.5.53.45] said: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command) zb. Denis Casserly wrote: > sorry to bother you about TLUG. I changed ISP's 2 weeks ago and I'm trying > to get the list emailed to me every day. I tried to edit my preferences or > profile, but still no list. And I didn't know there was a newtlug list also, > and I think I might have contacted them by mistake. > Please tell me how I can get list emailed to me every day. > cheers, > Denis Casserly. > old email was denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org > new email is denisc1-p2b/v3bBdDVeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 01:12:20 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:12:20 -0400 Subject: mail list In-Reply-To: <200506241636.44297.denisc-MAEtQwdlj00@public.gmane.org>; from denisc-MAEtQwdlj00@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 04:36:44PM -0400 References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> Message-ID: <20050624211220.A2917@diamond.ss.org> Done. Bill On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 04:36:44PM -0400, Denis Casserly wrote: > sorry to bother you about TLUG. I changed ISP's 2 weeks ago and I'm trying > to get the list emailed to me every day. I tried to edit my preferences or > profile, but still no list. And I didn't know there was a newtlug list also, > and I think I might have contacted them by mistake. > Please tell me how I can get list emailed to me every day. > cheers, > Denis Casserly. > old email was denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org > new email is denisc1-p2b/v3bBdDVeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 01:45:05 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:45:05 -0400 Subject: mail list In-Reply-To: <20050624211220.A2917-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> <20050624211220.A2917@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <42BCB721.8030609@istop.com> billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Done. Did you also take care of the fact that according to my experience username denisc1 does not exist at telux.net ? ;) zb. > Bill > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 04:36:44PM -0400, Denis Casserly wrote: > >> sorry to bother you about TLUG. I changed ISP's 2 weeks ago and I'm trying >> to get the list emailed to me every day. I tried to edit my preferences or >> profile, but still no list. And I didn't know there was a newtlug list also, >>and I think I might have contacted them by mistake. >>Please tell me how I can get list emailed to me every day. >> cheers, >> Denis Casserly. >>old email was denisc-MAEtQwdlj00 at public.gmane.org >>new email is denisc1-p2b/v3bBdDVeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 06:29:40 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:29:40 -0400 Subject: Framebuffer versus X Window ? Message-ID: <20050625062940.GA11366@waltdnes.org> I'll admit to knowing virtually nothing about framebuffer, which is why I asking these questions in the first place. 1) Can I run everything in framebuffer mode that I can in X? 2) Is it faster/slower? 3) Is a true console textmode still available? 4) Any advantages/disadvantages/gotchas? -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 12:10:59 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:10:59 -0400 Subject: copy and paste In-Reply-To: <42BCB721.8030609-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> <20050624211220.A2917@diamond.ss.org> <42BCB721.8030609@istop.com> Message-ID: <42BD49D3.2060400@istop.com> I did ask that question in the past. Now will again. Is there a way to configure how copy and paste works? At home, I use FC2, GNOME, and all is fine. When I just mark a text in terminal window, I can paste it to other applications by clicking at the same time left and right mouse button. This is nice, it works, probably with any application. Thats how it should be working. Its convenient. If I am correct, the method worked also on the same computer running FC1, in the past (I upgraded FC1 to FC2). I can not however reproduce the same on other computers I use, at work. Any advise? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 12:44:25 2005 From: andy+lists-NouRTJlp5sIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:44:25 -0400 Subject: copy and paste In-Reply-To: <42BD49D3.2060400-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> <20050624211220.A2917@diamond.ss.org> <42BCB721.8030609@istop.com> <42BD49D3.2060400@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050625124425.GA19862@seahorse.localdomain> On Sat, Jun 25, 2005 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Is there a way to configure how copy and paste works? > > At home, I use FC2, GNOME, and all is fine. When I just mark a text in > terminal window, I can paste it to other applications by clicking at the > same time left and right mouse button. This is nice, it works, probably > with any application. Thats how it should be working. Its convenient. Possibly an X configuration issue? If you have "Emulate3Buttons" or "ChordMiddle" enabled, then chording the left and right buttons (like playing a chord with multiple keys on a piano) will make X respond to a middle-click (i.e., paste) event. >From my XF86Config: # Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice # Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms) # Option "Emulate3Buttons" # Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50" # ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice # Option "ChordMiddle" hth, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 25 18:39:07 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:39:07 -0400 Subject: copy and paste In-Reply-To: <42BD49D3.2060400-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200506241636.44297.denisc@aebc.com> <20050624211220.A2917@diamond.ss.org> <42BCB721.8030609@istop.com> <42BD49D3.2060400@istop.com> Message-ID: <1119724747.42bda4cb57e72@geek-girls.ca> Quoting Zbigniew Koziol : > > I did ask that question in the past. Now will again. > > Is there a way to configure how copy and paste works? > > At home, I use FC2, GNOME, and all is fine. When I just mark a text in > terminal window, I can paste it to other applications by clicking at the > same time left and right mouse button. This is nice, it works, probably > with any application. Thats how it should be working. Its convenient. > > If I am correct, the method worked also on the same computer running > FC1, in the past (I upgraded FC1 to FC2). > > I can not however reproduce the same on other computers I use, at work. > > Any advise? > > zb. The best X copy and paste explanation I've ever run across: http://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html Enjoy! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From d119004-6yHCwO3ZCmddPTjdEzvvQgWuu5Ts7GMO at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 08:29:16 2005 From: d119004-6yHCwO3ZCmddPTjdEzvvQgWuu5Ts7GMO at public.gmane.org (Maciej Kalkowski) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:29:16 +0200 Subject: Framebuffer versus X Window ? In-Reply-To: <20050625062940.GA11366-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050625062940.GA11366@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050627082916.GA22593@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> Dnia Sat, Jun 25, 2005 at 02:29:40AM -0400, Walter Dnes pisal ('[TLUG]: Framebuffer versus X Window ?'). :> I'll admit to knowing virtually nothing about framebuffer, which is :> why I asking these questions in the first place. :> :> 1) Can I run everything in framebuffer mode that I can in X? do you mean frame buffer driver for X or for console mode only? if for X, then you can the same things as in X. (maybe except some tux racers and others that use a lot of opengl) :> 2) Is it faster/slower? slower than what? in X it's gonna be slower than the drivers for graphic card :) and for console it's gonna be slower than normal console mode. :> 3) Is a true console textmode still available? i use frame buffer for console mode only. it's nicer and i have penguin logo at the boot time. :) :> 4) Any advantages/disadvantages/gotchas? it depends where you want to use fb for? m. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 13:07:25 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:07:25 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? Message-ID: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> (I'm asking this here just because I suspect there are readers with network administration smarts.) I have a DSL connection via IStop. My wife has a Rogers cable connection. Her e-mail provider is a different ISP altogether. When she connects her laptop using cable, POP works and SMTP times out, both using the same host. Connecting the same laptop using DSL has both services working fine. If I telnet port 25, it works on DSL and times out on cable. The host name resolves to the same IP address regardless of which network connection. This is a new development, starting over the past few days. I'm baffled at the idea that a particular port responds or not, depending on the source address or network. (I know some providers shut down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing 3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, and it's strangely selective.) Any suggestions of what might be going on (before we call various tech supports and grovel)? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 13:17:21 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:17:21 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <42BFFC61.9020705@rogers.com> phil wrote: > (I'm asking this here just because I suspect there are readers with > network administration smarts.) > > I have a DSL connection via IStop. My wife has a Rogers cable > connection. Her e-mail provider is a different ISP altogether. > > When she connects her laptop using cable, POP works and SMTP times out, > both using the same host. Connecting the same laptop using DSL has both > services working fine. If I telnet port 25, it works on DSL and times > out on cable. The host name resolves to the same IP address regardless > of which network connection. > > This is a new development, starting over the past few days. > > I'm baffled at the idea that a particular port responds or not, > depending on the source address or network. (I know some providers shut > down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing > 3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, and > it's strangely selective.) > > Any suggestions of what might be going on (before we call various tech > supports and grovel)? Many ISPs block external smtp connections, to reduce the possibility of spamming. Again some will allow external connections, via a secure connection, such as ssl or ssh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 13:25:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:25:25 -0400 Subject: Framebuffer versus X Window ? In-Reply-To: <20050625062940.GA11366-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050625062940.GA11366@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050627132525.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 25, 2005 at 02:29:40AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'll admit to knowing virtually nothing about framebuffer, which is > why I asking these questions in the first place. > > 1) Can I run everything in framebuffer mode that I can in X? You can run X using the fbdev driver so X can run on the fb console just as it runs natively on the video chip right now. Some applications have direct support for fb console, so they can run without X similar to how svgalib used to be used. > 2) Is it faster/slower? Slower. Doing everything as graphics is slower than doing it as text especially when you have no access to hardware acceleration for almost everything. Some fb drivers do have some accaleration from hardware for scrolling and drawing characters using the current font which make those quite a bit faster than a plain dumb 'tell me where to draw the dots' frame buffer. > 3) Is a true console textmode still available? Sure, isn't that what you normally use? You can run plain vga text or you can run framebuffer. You can't do both at once (on most video cards at least). > 4) Any advantages/disadvantages/gotchas? Many X drivers that work with the video chip natively won't work correctly when a framebuffer driver is running the console. Using the X fbdev driver does work of course, but is wayyyy slower than a native X driver for the video card. On the other hand on a large monitor being able to have 200 characters wide and 75 or 150 lines is really quite something when programing. Of course some people think doing that with an xterm maximized is a better solution, and perhaps they are right. I like a high resolution fb console, but generally the pains it causes for running X isn't worth it I find. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 13:29:21 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:29:21 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050627132921.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 09:07:25AM -0400, phil wrote: > (I'm asking this here just because I suspect there are readers with > network administration smarts.) > > I have a DSL connection via IStop. My wife has a Rogers cable > connection. Her e-mail provider is a different ISP altogether. > > When she connects her laptop using cable, POP works and SMTP times out, > both using the same host. Connecting the same laptop using DSL has > both services working fine. If I telnet port 25, it works on DSL and > times out on cable. The host name resolves to the same IP address > regardless of which network connection. > > This is a new development, starting over the past few days. > > I'm baffled at the idea that a particular port responds or not, > depending on the source address or network. (I know some providers > shut down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing > 3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, and > it's strangely selective.) > > Any suggestions of what might be going on (before we call various tech > supports and grovel)? Many ISPs block outgoing smtp connections to prevent mail viruses in outlook from spreading to easily. They only allow outgoing smtp to their mail server so that they can log which IP sent each message and track them in case of abuse/spam complaints. Certainly sympatico blocks smtp, and perhaps rogers has started to do so as well. Istop does not block anything. That is probably why it works. At the same time many dynamic IP ISPs (like rogers) have their user IP blocks added to blacklists as IPs that should never send mail directly so many mail servers refuse connections from them. I find it to be both a good idea (anything to prevent zombie windows PCs from sending spam/viruses is a good thing), while also a pain (anything that prevents advanced users from runing their own mail when their ISP isn't competent enough is a bad thing). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 13:33:29 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:33:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <42BFFC61.9020705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <42BFFC61.9020705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <0C0A7838-E710-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:17 AM, James Knott wrote: > phil wrote: >> (I know some providers shut >> down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing >> 3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, >> and >> it's strangely selective.) > > Many ISPs block external smtp connections, to reduce the possibility of > spamming. Right, but in cases where I've seen that done, there's been a reject message and it has affected *all* external sources. If you're correct, they're certainly doing it oddly by keeping the server port open until timeout rather than dropping the unwanted connection. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 14:10:57 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:10:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <0C0A7838-E710-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <42BFFC61.9020705@rogers.com> <0C0A7838-E710-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050627141057.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 09:33:29AM -0400, phil wrote: > Right, but in cases where I've seen that done, there's been a reject > message and it has affected *all* external sources. If you're correct, > they're certainly doing it oddly by keeping the server port open until > timeout rather than dropping the unwanted connection. Might slow down the viruses and delay how long until they try other ways to spread their loads. Kinda like a tarpit I guess. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 15:19:11 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:19:11 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <42C018EF.7060700@interlog.com> phil wrote: > I have a DSL connection via IStop. My wife has a Rogers cable > connection. Her e-mail provider is a different ISP altogether. > > When she connects her laptop using cable, POP works and SMTP times out, > both using the same host. Connecting the same laptop using DSL has both > services working fine. If I telnet port 25, it works on DSL and times > out on cable. The host name resolves to the same IP address regardless > of which network connection. > > This is a new development, starting over the past few days. When I first switched to Rogers I wanted to send outgoing mail via my the SMTP server at my old ISP but found I wasn't able to do that. It was about 8 months ago when I made the switch so I can't remember I got a timeout or an error message when trying to use my other ISP's SMTP server. I just remember I wasn't able to get it work. I gave up after some attempts and just reconfigured to send mail out via the Rogers SMTP server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 15:35:50 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <682FEA1C-E70C-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, phil wrote: > I'm baffled at the idea that a particular port responds or not, > depending on the source address or network. (I know some providers > shut down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing > 3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, and > it's strangely selective.) It's not a question of the target machine responding or not depending on where the call is coming from. In the timeout cases, the call is never reaching the target machine at all. Many ISPs -- evidently including your cable supplier -- want outgoing mail to go via their servers, so they can exert some control over spam attempts etc. So the only port 25 you can reach from within their network is theirs; they block attempts to call out to port 25 elsewhere. So the DSL company's port 25 is unreachable from within the cable network. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 15:44:20 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:44:20 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5381A22C-E722-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Henry Spencer wrote: > It's not a question of the target machine responding or not depending > on > where the call is coming from. In the timeout cases, the call is never > reaching the target machine at all. OK, that's interesting. Using telnet it *looks* exactly the same as what it would if something on the target accepted the incoming connection and then just sat there with the socket open. Having mistakenly written some server code that did that once or twice.... :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 15:53:02 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:53:02 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, phil wrote: >>I'm baffled at the idea that a particular port responds or not, >>depending on the source address or network. (I know some providers >>shut down SMTP from outside their network, but in this case: providing >>3rd-party mail is part of their business, there's no error message, and >>it's strangely selective.) > > It's not a question of the target machine responding or not depending on > where the call is coming from. In the timeout cases, the call is never > reaching the target machine at all. > > Many ISPs -- evidently including your cable supplier -- want outgoing mail > to go via their servers, so they can exert some control over spam attempts > etc. So the only port 25 you can reach from within their network is > theirs; they block attempts to call out to port 25 elsewhere. So the DSL > company's port 25 is unreachable from within the cable network. Some ISPs, I believe Primus is one, allow access from off their network, using a secure connection. However, that's a different port, so hopefully, Rogers or other won't block it. If all else fails, there's always a VPN or ssh. When I'm on a different ISP, I can fire up my VPN, to my home network and connect to the Rogers SMTP server. As far as they can tell, the connection is coming from my home computer. I've added a host route, so that all connections to them is via the VPN and not directly through the ISP I'm connected to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 16:53:21 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:53:21 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <42C020DE.8080509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:53 AM, James Knott wrote: > Some ISPs, I believe Primus is one, allow access from off their > network, > using a secure connection. However, that's a different port, so > hopefully, Rogers or other won't block it. If this really turns out to be the problem, we'll have to look at something of the sort as a solution. The basic problem is that she just wants to use Rogers as an Internet access point. She has her own domain with mail and web site handled by the "other" ISP. She absolutely doesn't want business e-mail to look as if it's coming from a Rogers account rather than her business domain. And if they stop her from using other SMTP services, I'm expecting they might treat non-Rogers sending addresses as spoof attempts. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 17:00:43 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:00:43 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> phil wrote: > On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:53 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> Some ISPs, I believe Primus is one, allow access from off their network, >> using a secure connection. However, that's a different port, so >> hopefully, Rogers or other won't block it. > > If this really turns out to be the problem, we'll have to look at > something of the sort as a solution. > > The basic problem is that she just wants to use Rogers as an Internet > access point. She has her own domain with mail and web site handled by > the "other" ISP. She absolutely doesn't want business e-mail to look as > if it's coming from a Rogers account rather than her business domain. > And if they stop her from using other SMTP services, I'm expecting they > might treat non-Rogers sending addresses as spoof attempts. Is ssl available with her server? Another method is to use the Rogers mail server, but use her own server for the reply to address. Most e-mail programs support this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 17:28:09 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:28:09 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <42C030BB.20909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:00 PM, James Knott wrote: > Is ssl available with her server? Not sure. We can find out if it comes to that. > Another method is to use the Rogers > mail server, but use her own server for the reply to address. Most > e-mail programs support this. Not as "professional" looking, but might be acceptable. Of course, there's always the "Tell Rogers To Stuff Themselves" option, which has some attraction given that her setup has been in place for quite some time until late last week when it died with no warning. (Assuming, again, that this is because of some intentional action by Rogers...I just now hear that their tech support is unavailable because of internal problems.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 17:44:57 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:44:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C03B19.9080405@rogers.com> phil wrote: > On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:00 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> Is ssl available with her server? > > Not sure. We can find out if it comes to that. > >> Another method is to use the Rogers >> mail server, but use her own server for the reply to address. Most >> e-mail programs support this. > > Not as "professional" looking, but might be acceptable. > > Of course, there's always the "Tell Rogers To Stuff Themselves" option, > which has some attraction given that her setup has been in place for > quite some time until late last week when it died with no warning. > (Assuming, again, that this is because of some intentional action by > Rogers...I just now hear that their tech support is unavailable because > of internal problems.) You'd better call tech support, to tell them that you can't reach tech support. ;-) Also, are you certain that the problem is caused by Rogers and not the other ISP? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 17:51:03 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:51:03 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C03C87.1000408@utoronto.ca> phil wrote: > On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:00 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> Is ssl available with her server? > > > Not sure. We can find out if it comes to that. > >> Another method is to use the Rogers >> mail server, but use her own server for the reply to address. Most >> e-mail programs support this. > > > Not as "professional" looking, but might be acceptable. > I use the Rogers SMTP servers to send from all of my email addresses for a variety of reasons. The SMTP server used (generally) has no bearing on the "From" address. In Thunderbird this is just a matter of configuring your default identity as you want but using a different SMTP server. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 18:13:14 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:13:14 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <42C03B19.9080405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> <42C03B19.9080405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20F7E6FC-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:44 PM, James Knott wrote: > Also, are you certain that the problem is caused by Rogers and not the > other ISP? Not absolutely -- the other ISP could be blocking Rogers' traffic -- but the explanation someone put forward about port 25 outbound blocking made sense. (Aha! It just dawned on me that I should be able to test that by moving her machine back to the cable connection and trying to telnet to the IStop -- or some other -- SMTP server. Thanks!) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 18:15:06 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:15:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <42C03C87.1000408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> <42C03C87.1000408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > I use the Rogers SMTP servers to send from all of my email addresses > for a variety of reasons. The SMTP server used (generally) has no > bearing on the "From" address. In Thunderbird this is just a matter > of configuring your default identity as you want but using a different > SMTP server. That's good to know. I was worrying because of the following quote from a FAQ on their site: 'Please make sure that you have entered your Rogers Yahoo! Mail Address as the "From" address in your email client. You will not be able to send mail if you have entered another address.' ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 18:29:34 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:29:34 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> <42C03C87.1000408@utoronto.ca> <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <42C0458E.6090106@utoronto.ca> phil wrote: > On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > >> I use the Rogers SMTP servers to send from all of my email addresses >> for a variety of reasons. The SMTP server used (generally) has no >> bearing on the "From" address. In Thunderbird this is just a matter >> of configuring your default identity as you want but using a >> different SMTP server. > > > That's good to know. I was worrying because of the following quote > from a FAQ on their site: 'Please make sure that you have entered your > Rogers Yahoo! Mail Address as the "From" address in your email client. > You will not be able to send mail if you have entered another address.' Interesting...Can't say I've ever had a problem. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 19:25:46 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:25:46 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> <42C03C87.1000408@utoronto.ca> <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <42C052BA.1060404@rogers.com> phil wrote: > On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > >> I use the Rogers SMTP servers to send from all of my email addresses >> for a variety of reasons. The SMTP server used (generally) has no >> bearing on the "From" address. In Thunderbird this is just a matter >> of configuring your default identity as you want but using a different >> SMTP server. > > That's good to know. I was worrying because of the following quote from > a FAQ on their site: 'Please make sure that you have entered your Rogers > Yahoo! Mail Address as the "From" address in your email client. You will > not be able to send mail if you have entered another address.' I just tried to send a message, via Rogers, using another account I have. It works fine. Also, in Mozilla, there's a drop down box, where you can chose your "from" address, from any configured account. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:10:18 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:10:18 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C05D2A.7080007@interlog.com> phil wrote: > She has her own domain with mail and web site handled by > the "other" ISP. She absolutely doesn't want business e-mail to look as > if it's coming from a Rogers account rather than her business domain. > And if they stop her from using other SMTP services, I'm expecting they > might treat non-Rogers sending addresses as spoof attempts. Now I remember the (or one of the) problems I had sending mail to my other ISP's SMTP server. The other server wouldn't allow inbound mail to its SMTP port which was to be forwarded to someone outside their domains when I was connected via Rogers since the other server saw it as an attempt to use them as a mail relay. Marcus Brubaker wrote: > That's good to know. I was worrying because of the following quote > from a FAQ on their site: 'Please make sure that you have entered your > Rogers Yahoo! Mail Address as the "From" address in your email client. > You will not be able to send mail if you have entered another address.' I have also never had a problem sending out mail via Rogers with an identify or from address which is the e-mail address of my other ISP account. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:33:31 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:33:31 -0400 Subject: Newbie Message-ID: <42c0629a.4d8704e2.3efa.1879@mx.gmail.com> Hello All, I am a new to Canada and I am looking to hookup with other IT enthusiasts. I joined the TLUG and some other groups here. I am wondering why, when I post a message I don't see it. But I do see replies to it. Is that part of the list settings? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:41:12 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:41:12 -0400 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: <42c0629a.4d8704e2.3efa.1879-49w3T8ftje9Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42c0629a.4d8704e2.3efa.1879@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42C06468.8020904@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > > I am a new to Canada and I am looking to hookup with other IT > enthusiasts. I joined the TLUG and some other groups here. > > I am wondering why, when I post a message I don?t see it. But I do see > replies to it. Is that part of the list settings? I don't see your messages either. ;-) Actually, according to what I've read, I believe it's a gmail "feature". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:47:28 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:47:28 -0400 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: <42C06468.8020904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42c0629a.4d8704e2.3efa.1879@mx.gmail.com> <42C06468.8020904@rogers.com> Message-ID: It is a gmail feature. Franco -- On 6/27/05, James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > I am a new to Canada and I am looking to hookup with other IT > > enthusiasts. I joined the TLUG and some other groups here. > > > > I am wondering why, when I post a message I don't see it. But I do see > > replies to it. Is that part of the list settings? > > I don't see your messages either. ;-) > > Actually, according to what I've read, I believe it's a gmail "feature". > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:50:53 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:50:53 -0400 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42c066a7.5f0a2ef3.078c.22ad@mx.gmail.com> Any idea how to turn it off? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco Saliola Sent: June 27, 2005 4:47 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Newbie It is a gmail feature. Franco -- On 6/27/05, James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > I am a new to Canada and I am looking to hookup with other IT > > enthusiasts. I joined the TLUG and some other groups here. > > > > I am wondering why, when I post a message I don't see it. But I do see > > replies to it. Is that part of the list settings? > > I don't see your messages either. ;-) > > Actually, according to what I've read, I believe it's a gmail "feature". > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:52:59 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:52:59 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050627205259.GA20238@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 12:53:21PM -0400, phil wrote > The basic problem is that she just wants to use Rogers as an > Internet access point. She has her own domain with mail and web site > handled by the "other" ISP. She absolutely doesn't want business > e-mail to look as if it's coming from a Rogers account rather than > her business domain. If she's worried about email with Rogers headers, I have news for you... Rogers was probably showing up in the headers when she sent emails "the old way". Her home IP address would show up as the machine that her domain's smtp server got the email from. The only way around that would be for her to ssh into the domain server (assuming it's allowed), and run pine/elm/mutt/whatever from there. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:53:57 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:53:57 -0400 Subject: Framebuffer versus X Window ? In-Reply-To: <20050627132525.GS23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050625062940.GA11366@waltdnes.org> <20050627132525.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050627205357.GC20238@waltdnes.org> Overall, disadvantages and no advantages. Looks like it's no go for me. Thanks for the info. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 20:53:35 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:53:35 -0400 Subject: Can't get wine going Message-ID: <20050627205335.GB20238@waltdnes.org> First it complained about not finding the "Windows drive". I tried running winecfg, and that didn't help too much. Attempting to launch Chessmaster 3000 draws an outline of a dialog box and then dies. Any ideas? -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 21:04:27 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:04:27 -0400 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: <42c066a7.5f0a2ef3.078c.22ad-49w3T8ftje9Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42c066a7.5f0a2ef3.078c.22ad@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: Nope. -- On 6/27/05, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Any idea how to turn it off? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco > Saliola > Sent: June 27, 2005 4:47 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Newbie > > It is a gmail feature. > > Franco > > -- > > On 6/27/05, James Knott wrote: > > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I am a new to Canada and I am looking to hookup with other IT > > > enthusiasts. I joined the TLUG and some other groups here. > > > > > > I am wondering why, when I post a message I don't see it. But I do see > > > replies to it. Is that part of the list settings? > > > > I don't see your messages either. ;-) > > > > Actually, according to what I've read, I believe it's a gmail "feature". > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 21:09:44 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:09:44 -0400 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: <42c066a7.5f0a2ef3.078c.22ad-49w3T8ftje9Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <42c066a7.5f0a2ef3.078c.22ad@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42C06B18.5050901@rogers.com> Stop using gmail? Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Any idea how to turn it off? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco > Saliola > Sent: June 27, 2005 4:47 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Newbie > > It is a gmail feature. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 27 21:34:45 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:34:45 -0700 Subject: Can't get wine going In-Reply-To: <20050627205335.GB20238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050627205335.GB20238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: look at your .wine/[config file] and see where c:\ is pointed to. I had trouble 'cause it was a symlink to nowhere. -Joseph- On 6/27/05, Walter Dnes wrote: > First it complained about not finding the "Windows drive". I tried > running winecfg, and that didn't help too much. Attempting to launch > Chessmaster 3000 draws an outline of a dialog box and then dies. Any > ideas? > > -- > Walter Dnes > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 13:10:28 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:10:28 -0400 Subject: Can't get wine going In-Reply-To: References: <20050627205335.GB20238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050628131028.GC23821@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 02:34:45PM -0700, Joseph Kubik wrote > look at your .wine/[config file] and see where c:\ is pointed to. > I had trouble 'cause it was a symlink to nowhere. Look Ma... no config file... oops. So I copied that from /usr/share/wine, and re-ran winecfg which set the C: drive. Now I get... waltdnes at m450 ~ $ wine /misc/dos_c/cm3000/cm3000.exe wine: Could not load graphics driver 'x11drv'. Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly. That was from an xterm, and yes... waltdnes at m450 ~ $ set | grep DISPLAY DISPLAY=:0 Sorry to bug you, but now what? Hopefully, I won't have to download a major driver. IStop appears to be down again, and I'm coming inf via dialup. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 13:41:24 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can anyone reach istop? Message-ID: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> ...or is it just me? Istop seems to have gone down yesterday. www.istop.com seems to be unreachable too. If they're dead, anyone know a good residential DSL provider who does static IPs and doesn't mind servers? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 13:43:57 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:43:57 -0700 Subject: Can't get wine going In-Reply-To: <20050628131028.GC23821-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050627205335.GB20238@waltdnes.org> <20050628131028.GC23821@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: what user are you logged in as? what X server are you using? -Joseph- On 6/28/05, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 02:34:45PM -0700, Joseph Kubik wrote > > look at your .wine/[config file] and see where c:\ is pointed to. > > I had trouble 'cause it was a symlink to nowhere. > > Look Ma... no config file... oops. So I copied that from > /usr/share/wine, and re-ran winecfg which set the C: drive. Now I > get... > > > waltdnes at m450 ~ $ wine /misc/dos_c/cm3000/cm3000.exe > wine: Could not load graphics driver 'x11drv'. > Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly. > > That was from an xterm, and yes... > > waltdnes at m450 ~ $ set | grep DISPLAY > DISPLAY=:0 > > Sorry to bug you, but now what? Hopefully, I won't have to download a > major driver. IStop appears to be down again, and I'm coming inf via > dialup. > > -- > Walter Dnes > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 13:52:03 2005 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:52:03 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > ...or is it just me? > not just you - died somewhere around 6-7pm last night for me. I doubt they're all dead, just mostly dead. Probably another spat with Bell. Cheers, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 14:03:08 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:03:08 -0400 Subject: SugarCRM experiences? Message-ID: <42C1589C.5030603@cheapersafer.com> I'm working on an article on SugarCRM - http://www.sugarcrm.com , a LAMP package that handles sales leads and customer tracking among other things. Anyone have any success/failure stories, opinions about it? Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 28 18:06:02 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:06:02 -0400 Subject: [OT] Routing? In-Reply-To: <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <42C020DE.8080509@rogers.com> <42C030BB.20909@rogers.com> <42C03C87.1000408@utoronto.ca> <63B18FAE-E737-11D9-BE93-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On 6/27/05, phil wrote: > That's good to know. I was worrying because of the following quote > from a FAQ on their site: 'Please make sure that you have entered your > Rogers Yahoo! Mail Address as the "From" address in your email client. > You will not be able to send mail if you have entered another address.' I run all of my mail through Roger's SMTP server as well (yay smarthost config in postfix!) and have no problems setting the From header to my own domain. I wonder if the text above refers to an e-mail client which can't differentiate between authentication credentials and the From header. i.e. I send mail in mutt with "From: x at y.z", but my smarthost configuration specifies username A with password B on SMTP server C. (where x, y, z, A, B, and C are all different values) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 02:15:17 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:15:17 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <42C15603.3000103-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On June 28, 2005 09:52 am, Oliver Meyn wrote: > not just you - died somewhere around 6-7pm last night for me. I doubt > they're all dead, just mostly dead. Probably another spat with Bell. Same here, down last night at 7pm. There is an update at http://www.istop.com/status.html indicating you can login with istop:username-1Ns3SGp1wUE at public.gmane.org as of 7pm, I could login at that point but routing wasn't working (perhaps because of my static IP). can.internet.highspeed has lots of entertaining speculation as to what happened but I don't care ... I switched to another ISP from work this afternoon and they had my login functional as we talked on the phone, and this email is a test of the new connection :-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 09:47:02 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <42C15603.3000103-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jun 2005, Oliver Meyn wrote: > mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > > ...or is it just me? > > > not just you - died somewhere around 6-7pm last night for me. I doubt they're > all dead, just mostly dead. Probably another spat with Bell. The June 28 entry on http://www.istop.com/status.html contains info on how to get reconnected if you are an iStop customer. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 12:17:23 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:17:23 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO Message-ID: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> Hello, I'm trying to find an ISP in Toronto for a friend. Not being from the area I figured one of the best places to ask is always the local LUG. Basically I would like them to have a fixed IP (for firewall reasons), no port restrictions and unlimited transfers would be nice. Looking for a reliable (no down time) provider with a good reputation and fair prices. All suggestions are greatfully appreciated. Regards, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 12:30:36 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:30:36 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <200506282215.17799.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20050629123036.GB3317@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:15:17PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: >On June 28, 2005 09:52 am, Oliver Meyn wrote: > >> not just you - died somewhere around 6-7pm last night for me. I doubt >> they're all dead, just mostly dead. Probably another spat with Bell. > >Same here, down last night at 7pm. There is an update at >http://www.istop.com/status.html indicating you can login with >istop:username-1Ns3SGp1wUE at public.gmane.org as of 7pm, I could login at that point but routing >wasn't working (perhaps because of my static IP). > >can.internet.highspeed has lots of entertaining speculation as to what >happened but I don't care ... I switched to another ISP from work this >afternoon and they had my login functional as we talked on the phone, and >this email is a test of the new connection :-) I am back up with istop, but I'm sick of this. My very limited dealings with Ralph Doncaster personally and his behaviour on this list suggests that I should also find another ISP. If you cannot conduct yourself in civil discourse then business involving interpersonal communication (like dealing with vendors) might be a mistake. I don't doubt that Bell has acted in bad faith with istop - it's Bell - but I should never know about it as a customer. So, who did you switch to? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:11:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:11:35 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29153.3090100-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to find an ISP in Toronto for a friend. Not being from the > area I figured one of the best places to ask is always the local LUG. > Basically I would like them to have a fixed IP (for firewall reasons), > no port restrictions and unlimited transfers would be nice. > > Looking for a reliable (no down time) provider with a good reputation > and fair prices. > > All suggestions are greatfully appreciated. I'm on Rogers. While they only offer DHCP, the IP address is virtually static and the host name is determined by the hardware MAC addresses, so it never changes. This means you can always use DNS, even if the IP changes. The reliability has been excellent and I get 5 Mb down and 800K up. I suspect, no matter who you go with, you'll never find an ISP that has "no down time", though some are obviously better than others. In the telecom industry, the target is "five nines" or no more than about 5 minutes per year of down time. Achieving that requires a lot of redunancy etc. Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:15:30 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:15:30 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29E07.10304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> James Knott wrote: > Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're > >basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. > > > We keep a dozen or so servers in Texas which are firewalled and we only allow specific IP ranges into them for many of the services. So it is easier if they have a static IP so that we do not have to change the firewall rules when their IP changes. Cheers, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:20:02 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:20:02 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29EF2.4030009-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >>Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're >> >>basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. >> >> >> > > We keep a dozen or so servers in Texas which are firewalled and we only > allow specific IP ranges into them for many of the services. > So it is easier if they have a static IP so that we do not have to > change the firewall rules when their IP changes. Can they not do a DNS lookup against a host name? However, as I mentioned, the IPs on Rogers are virtually static, changing only when there's a physical reason for a change. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:21:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:21:53 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29E07.10304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050629132153.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 09:11:35AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I'm on Rogers. While they only offer DHCP, the IP address is virtually > static and the host name is determined by the hardware MAC addresses, so > it never changes. This means you can always use DNS, even if the IP > changes. The reliability has been excellent and I get 5 Mb down and > 800K up. I suspect, no matter who you go with, you'll never find an ISP > that has "no down time", though some are obviously better than others. > In the telecom industry, the target is "five nines" or no more than > about 5 minutes per year of down time. Achieving that requires a lot of > redunancy etc. Just remember with rogers you have a 60GB/month transfer limit, and don't you dare exceed it (they won't charge you for it, they will just kick you off the service is what their FAQ says). And of course they don't want you running servers on it either. > Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're > basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. Certainly isn't necesary, but does make some things better. I would be on DSL if I could, but something about DSLAM and line card slots and full was mentioned when I tried to move my service when I moved at the end of last year. :( I used to be with istop.com until I could no longer get DSL. My parents are still with them, and most of the time it works great. I don't think I have ever seen anywhere near 3Mbit download speed, but for their use the speed has been plenty. On the rogers connection I use at home (given a lack of options) the 5Mbit really delivers 5Mbit a lot of the time. A lot better than rogers used to be in that way. I really have no idea what DSL provider to recomend right now if you want decent price, ability to run servers, static IP, and reliability. I know istop certainly handles 3 out of 4 quite well, with the last one being fine most of the time, and then occationally really awful. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:25:16 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:25:16 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A002.1040307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> James Knott wrote: >Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > > >>James Knott wrote: >> >> >>>Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're >>>basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. >>> >>> >>We keep a dozen or so servers in Texas which are firewalled and we only >>allow specific IP ranges into them for many of the services. >>So it is easier if they have a static IP so that we do not have to >>change the firewall rules when their IP changes. >> >> > >Can they not do a DNS lookup against a host name? However, as I >mentioned, the IPs on Rogers are virtually static, changing only when >there's a physical reason for a change. > > The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:41:39 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:41:39 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629132153.GV23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <20050629132153.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C2A513.90905@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I used to be with istop.com until I could no longer get DSL. My parents > are still with them, and most of the time it works great. I don't think > I have ever seen anywhere near 3Mbit download speed, but for their use > the speed has been plenty. On the rogers connection I use at home > (given a lack of options) the 5Mbit really delivers 5Mbit a lot of the > time. A lot better than rogers used to be in that way. According to myspeed.rogers.com, I usually get around 4.9x Mb down and 79xK up, though on occasion, my upload speed has slightly exceeded 800K. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:42:31 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:42:31 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A13C.7010408-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <42C2A547.4090403@rogers.com> Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. > Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? Not that I'm aware of. I have both ssh and vpn configured on my firewall and both work fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 13:44:36 2005 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:44:36 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A13C.7010408-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: >>The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. >>Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? >> >> >> I have read reports that Roger's is blocking port 25 except to their own smtp server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:03:18 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:03:18 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A5C4.9000805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C2AA26.9010109@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > >>> The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. >>> Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? >>> >>> > I have read reports that Roger's is blocking port 25 except to their own > smtp server. Many ISPs do that, in order to prevent spam. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:22:22 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:22:22 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2AA26.9010109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <42C2AA26.9010109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C2AE9E.9090608@istop.com> James Knott wrote: >Many ISPs do that, in order to prevent spam. > > This does not prevent incoming spam but ourgoing spam (which should not be the business of an ISP). zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:42:56 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:42:56 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2AE9E.9090608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <42C2AA26.9010109@rogers.com> <42C2AE9E.9090608@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050629144256.GA3934@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 10:22:22AM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >James Knott wrote: > >>Many ISPs do that [block port 25 outbound except to their own smtp >>server], in order to prevent spam. >> >> >This does not prevent incoming spam but ourgoing spam (which should not >be the business of an ISP). I disagree. If an ISP allows its users to send SPAM then they will be blacklisted, causing a significant disruption to all their customers. The ISP must take steps to make sure that the users abide by their terms of service for the good of all of their customers, and with dynamic-IP ISPs it is easier to block port 25 than it is to track user's usage and throttle/monitor/block SPAM-like activity. If the ISP sells static IPs then they can have a given user blacklisted without disrupting other customers, and they can take steps to regain the good name of their IPs one at a time. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:49:10 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:49:10 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A13C.7010408-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 09:25:16AM -0400, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. > Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? I think they might block 25 outgoing. I would be surprised if they didn't block some incoming, but I haven't checked lately. Either way, running a web or mail server would be a violation of the service agreement on rogers. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:51:30 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:51:30 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2AE9E.9090608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <42C2AA26.9010109@rogers.com> <42C2AE9E.9090608@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050629145130.GX23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 10:22:22AM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > This does not prevent incoming spam but ourgoing spam (which should not > be the business of an ISP). It is often simpler to prevent spam from being sent at the source than it is to eliminate it at the destination. If an ISP has a service agreement that says "You may not send spam" then I think doing thinks to try and ensure and monitor that is legitimate. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 14:54:59 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:59 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629144910.GW23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C2B643.1020605@mi-consultants.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Either way, running a web or mail server would be a violation of the > >service agreement on rogers. > > I'm in Montreal and part of the MLUG. A big chunk of us, all use ISPs with very open service agreements. For about $40/month we get static IPs. Straight connections to/from the net with no filtering, no limits, can keep whatever servers we want at home and so on. This is what I was looking for in TO and thought TLUG would be a good place to find it. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:10:22 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:10:22 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2B643.1020605-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C2B643.1020605@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <20050629151022.GA4118@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 10:54:59AM -0400, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: >Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Either way, running a web or mail server would be a violation of the >> >>service agreement on rogers. >> >> > > >I'm in Montreal and part of the MLUG. A big chunk of us, all use ISPs >with very open service agreements. For about $40/month we get static >IPs. Straight connections to/from the net with no filtering, no limits, >can keep whatever servers we want at home and so on. > >This is what I was looking for in TO and thought TLUG would be a good >place to find it. :-) After the latest outage at iStop I am looking for a new ISP, and one of my research stops is canadianisp.com. You may find some good options there. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:08:31 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:08:31 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A5C4.9000805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 29, 2005 09:44, Stephen wrote: > Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > >>The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. > >>Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? > > I have read reports that Roger's is blocking port 25 except to their own > smtp server. Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via the Rogers network. Besides, if they blocked port 25, I could always access the external smtp server using an ssh or IPSec tunnel. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:17:34 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:17:34 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29EF2.4030009-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <200506291117.34430.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 29, 2005 09:15, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're > > > >basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. > > We keep a dozen or so servers in Texas which are firewalled and we only > allow specific IP ranges into them for many of the services. > So it is easier if they have a static IP so that we do not have to > change the firewall rules when their IP changes. You could achieve the same goal, i.e. preventing users from unauthorized hosts from connecting, by using an IPSec VPN. You could also use ssh and disallow password authentication. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:22:34 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:22:34 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629151022.GA4118-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C2B643.1020605@mi-consultants.com> <20050629151022.GA4118@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <42C2BCBA.1040000@mi-consultants.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > >After the latest outage at iStop I am looking for a new ISP, and one of >my research stops is canadianisp.com. You may find some good options >there. > > I know to stay away from iSTop.. They are here in Montreal as well and their CS and down times do not make them a good choice. I previously looked up and found several ISPs at canadianisp.com that have what I am looking for. But they create their own entries, and pay to have them near the top in the ratings. So I rather hear from some local people and their experiences. But thanks for mentioning the site! Regards, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:29:10 2005 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Need an ISP in TO Message-ID: <200506291529.j5TFTAqo078416@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | > I have read reports that Roger's is blocking port 25 except to their own | > smtp server. | | Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via the | Rogers network. Rogers seems to be implementing the port 25 incrementally - not on a single watershed day. I'll wager dollars to donuts (mmmm ... donuts) that you won't be able to say that for long. Me, I just had my remote MTA listen on port 2525 as well as 25, and told users to adjust their outbound mail server settings in their mail client. Cheers John jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:34:08 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:34:08 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via the > Rogers network. Besides, if they blocked port 25, I could always access the > external smtp server using an ssh or IPSec tunnel. As do I, but that's incoming port 25, not outgoing. All threads so far refer to Rogers blocking outbound port 25 (sending mail directly to someone else's mail server), not inbound port 25 (receiving mail to a server which you're running). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 15:41:43 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:41:43 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2B643.1020605-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C2B643.1020605@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 10:54:59AM -0400, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > I'm in Montreal and part of the MLUG. A big chunk of us, all use ISPs > with very open service agreements. For about $40/month we get static > IPs. Straight connections to/from the net with no filtering, no limits, > can keep whatever servers we want at home and so on. Well with istop we get up to 3Mbit (not sure I have ever gotten that close to that speed) for $30/month, if you buy your own modem, and a static ip is $4/month or $50 on time. Transfer limit of 25G down and unlimited up, although if you kill your pppoe session after 2am and before 10am, the download in that time range doesn't count. Many people are getting frustrated with the outages that they have had every few months that sometimes last hours, sometimes a day or two. I do know a few people using a provider in Montreal, even though they live here in Toronto. At least one of them basically manage to get a custom service agreement with the provider about what they could and could not do with the connection and what transfer limits (if any) there were. I don't know what the excact details of his agreement is, but it sounded like a good reason for staying with the provider even when moving. > This is what I was looking for in TO and thought TLUG would be a good > place to find it. :-) Some of us here are currently looking for something like that too. There used to be a couple of ISPs like that, then some got bought and went downhill, and others have started having some problems with reliability (and disagreements with their upstreams in some cases). How hard could it be to find an ISP that does DSL in toronto, with a reasonable (or preferably no) transfer limit, static ip, reliable service, and preferably a price of $50/month or less (anything less than rogers charges is reasonable to me.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:07:55 2005 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:07:55 -0400 Subject: Postgres Question Message-ID: <42C2C75B.1050407@alteeve.com> I need to search on the $ value of something in a table where multiple currencies are allowed, and the currency conversion rates are in another table. For instance, on EBay, things can be listed in US, CDN or GBP etc... Assuming the table has these fields: Value | Currency ----------------- 10.00 | US 25.00 | CDN 30.00 | GBP and the conversion table had these fields: Currency | Conversion ---------------------- US | 1 CDN | .75 GBP | .55 (Yes, values ARE guessed at here. ;) ) What would be the sainest way to search for anything less than $x CDN? Would implimenting a View, or any other DB feature make this more efficient? I've only done simple and joined quieries so far. How to attack this escapes me so far... Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:09:58 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:09:58 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2AE9E.9090608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <42C2AA26.9010109@rogers.com> <42C2AE9E.9090608@istop.com> Message-ID: <42C2C7D6.5040706@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> Many ISPs do that, in order to prevent spam. >> >> > This does not prevent incoming spam but ourgoing spam (which should not > be the business of an ISP). Unfortunately, it's all too easy, to improperly set up a mail server, to prevent abuse. Also, I wonder if that block also applies to commercial customers, or just residential? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:21:32 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:21:32 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629144910.GW23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A002.1040307@rogers.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <20050629144910.GW23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C2CA8C.6070204@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 09:25:16AM -0400, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: >>The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. >>Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? > > I think they might block 25 outgoing. I would be surprised if they > didn't block some incoming, but I haven't checked lately. > > Either way, running a web or mail server would be a violation of the > service agreement on rogers. I'll have to try booting my firewall with a "LiveCD" distro sometime, and see what happens when I go to www.grc.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:21:23 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Postgres Question In-Reply-To: <42C2C75B.1050407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C2C75B.1050407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Assuming the table has these fields: > > Value | Currency > ----------------- > 10.00 | US > 25.00 | CDN > 30.00 | GBP > > and the conversion table had these fields: > > Currency | Conversion > ---------------------- > US | 1 > CDN | .75 > GBP | .55 > What would be the sainest way to search for anything less than $x CDN? I think something along the lines of: select from prices a, currencies b where a.currency = b.currency and a.value * b.conversion < ; ...assuming the tables are called "prices" and "currencies"... Also, "" would have to be the amount in whatever currency you assign a conversion value of 1. Also, "a.value * b.conversion" might need to be changed to "a.value / b.conversion" depending on how you define the conversion values that get stored. HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:16:52 2005 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050629154143.GY23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, My home network still can not connect to istop. The following command is what I am using usually: 1. ifconfig eth1 up 2. pppd eth1 3. ping www.google.com I got "network not reachable" I called istop. it always busy Can anybody give me a help to connect to the network Thanks! Louie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:24:07 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:24:07 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200506291117.34430.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C29E07.10304@rogers.com> <42C29EF2.4030009@mi-consultants.com> <200506291117.34430.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <42C2CB27.2010304@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On June 29, 2005 09:15, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: >>James Knott wrote: >>>Incidententally, why do you need a static IP for a firewall? If you're >>> >>>basing rules on IP, rather than port, you're doing it wrong. >>We keep a dozen or so servers in Texas which are firewalled and we only >>allow specific IP ranges into them for many of the services. >>So it is easier if they have a static IP so that we do not have to >>change the firewall rules when their IP changes. > > You could achieve the same goal, i.e. preventing users from unauthorized hosts > from connecting, by using an IPSec VPN. You could also use ssh and disallow > password authentication. Or almost any other VPN. For example, I use OpenVPN. If I don't have the key, I don't get in. SSH is another option, depending on requirements. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:27:46 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:27:46 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/29/05, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >>Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via the >>Rogers network. Besides, if they blocked port 25, I could always access the >>external smtp server using an ssh or IPSec tunnel. > > As do I, but that's incoming port 25, not outgoing. All threads so > far refer to Rogers blocking outbound port 25 (sending mail directly > to someone else's mail server), not inbound port 25 (receiving mail to > a server which you're running). > Actually, in this day 'n age, I'd expect that if an ISP allows remote connections, it should be via a secure connection, rather than port 25. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:32:05 2005 From: mikep-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Michael J. Pawlowsky) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:32:05 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2CC02.1090305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> James Knott wrote: >Taavi Burns wrote: > > > Actually, in this day 'n age, I'd expect that if an ISP allows remote > >connections, it should be via a secure connection, rather than port 25. > > > If you want to run your own mail server, perhaps to be able to receive 100Mb attachments or to receive mail at your own domain withouth paying a surcharge you need port 25 to be open inbound. A lot of the cable companies block this and port 80 simply becuase they do no want you to run servers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:46:23 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:46:23 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <20050629123036.GB3317-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050629123036.GB3317@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1120063583.11273.5.camel@debian> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 08:30 -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > So, who did you switch to? TekSavvy Solutions (http://www.teksavvy.com/). They got me up and running fast, it works, they don't seem to care if you run servers, same price as istop (including static IP option). My 12 hour experience has been good, YMMV. Fraser -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:47:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:47:12 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050629161652.64945.qmail-T+KdO0UH6sWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:16:52PM -0400, hui xu wrote: > My home network still can not connect to istop. The following command is what I am using usually: > > 1. ifconfig eth1 up > > 2. pppd eth1 > > 3. ping www.google.com > > I got "network not reachable" > > I called istop. it always busy > > Can anybody give me a help to connect to the network Did you update your username from xxx-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org to istop:xxx-gm89wTbbEYE at public.gmane.org? That is what the istop.com status page currently says to do. Your username basically changes to istop:username (yes istop: is part of the login) at some other isp they work with to try and deal with the mess. Worked for my parents connection this morning. IP and routing and all carries on as normal it seems. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:55:02 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:55:02 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <1120063583.11273.5.camel@debian> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050629123036.GB3317@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1120063583.11273.5.camel@debian> Message-ID: <20050629165502.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:46:23PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 08:30 -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > > > So, who did you switch to? > > TekSavvy Solutions (http://www.teksavvy.com/). They got me up and > running fast, it works, they don't seem to care if you run servers, same > price as istop (including static IP option). > > My 12 hour experience has been good, YMMV. Hey neat, they offer Dry DSL (service on an inactive phone line). It costs more ($17/month + DSL service cost it appears for around here), but at least it is an option for people who want to go VoIP and not use rogers while canceling regular phone service. I was wondering if Bell would ever let that happen. The cost is a bit higher than istop ($50 once is less than $4/month for a static ip) and 20G/month is not 25G/month and $3/GB extra is more than $1/GB, so the bandwidth charges could increase the price for those that actually use that much bandwidth, but for typical users, it sure looks very comparable. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 16:57:51 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:57:51 -0400 Subject: Postgres Question In-Reply-To: <42C2C75B.1050407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C2C75B.1050407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050629165750.GB23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:07:55PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I need to search on the $ value of something in a table where multiple > currencies are allowed, and the currency conversion rates are in another > table. > > For instance, on EBay, things can be listed in US, CDN or GBP etc... > > Assuming the table has these fields: > > Value | Currency > ----------------- > 10.00 | US > 25.00 | CDN > 30.00 | GBP > > and the conversion table had these fields: > > Currency | Conversion > ---------------------- > US | 1 > CDN | .75 > GBP | .55 > > (Yes, values ARE guessed at here. ;) ) > > What would be the sainest way to search for anything less than $x CDN? > > Would implimenting a View, or any other DB feature make this more efficient? > > I've only done simple and joined quieries so far. How to attack this > escapes me so far... You could write a postgresql PL function (or whatever they call the function language) so that you can do soemthing like: select * from tablename where dollarvalue(value,currency) < 10.0); So dollarvalue would be a function that takes the value and currency, then looks up the conversion in the currency table and multiplies it out. Should make it much easier then to do regular queries. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 17:04:51 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:04:51 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: <20050629165502.GA23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050629123036.GB3317@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1120063583.11273.5.camel@debian> <20050629165502.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Hey neat, they offer Dry DSL (service on an inactive phone line). It > costs more ($17/month + DSL service cost it appears for around here), > but at least it is an option for people who want to go VoIP and not use > rogers while canceling regular phone service. Rogers allows cablemodems for customers who do not order cable TV service. Historically they charged a $10/month fee for this, which they informed me (via snail mail) will no longer be the case (i.e. $0/month). > I was wondering if Bell would ever let that happen. One must suspect that the CRTC has given them no choice... :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 17:05:06 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:05:06 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2CD05.6090406-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: I've been with Look for TV and DSL for a long time, and I'm extremely happy with it. http://www.look.ca/page.asp?intNodeID=2440 If you have their TV service they have bundle offers that are a bit cheaper. Basically: * there is no upload or download cap * they do not restrict ports and they do not mind if you run servers * the customer service is excellent * it's only gone down once (at least, at my place - your mileage may vary) * they run a Debian mirror! I really prefer buying the modem as opposed to renting it. I know a few people (myself included) who quit Sympatico and never received the package to return the modem! After many threatening phone calls (from their side), we eventually had to take the modem on the deadline date to a Bellworld and insist they take it. I guess Bell figures that, since they are losing a customer, they might as well cash in on the $300 fee? In conclusion: Look rocks and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 17:32:30 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI Message-ID: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am in the process of writing an new article that deals with video cards which I hope will be published on the Linux Journal website. As part of the article I will need to offer suggestions as to what sort of video card to buy. Now I like the idea of promoting firms that are based in Canada, and even better firms that are based in the greater Toronto area (and video card builder ATI with it's headquarters in Markham counts). However, all reports I have seen give ATI (very) poor marks for the Linux video card drivers (compared to nVidia), and reports of ATI Linux install issues are also discouraging (compared to nVidia). So the question is can I suggest people seriously look at ATI as reasonable Linux option? Colin McGregor P.S. Just out of curiosity how many people on the list have written for/been paid for computer related publications over the past year? If Marcel Gagne is still on the list he would take top prize. I know Chris Johnson, William Park and I have, who else? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 17:37:14 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:37:14 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <20050629173714.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:05:06PM -0400, Mike Newman wrote: > I've been with Look for TV and DSL for a long time, and I'm extremely > happy with it. > http://www.look.ca/page.asp?intNodeID=2440 > If you have their TV service they have bundle offers that are a bit cheaper. > > Basically: > * there is no upload or download cap > * they do not restrict ports and they do not mind if you run servers Some people think rogers doesn't mind, other people have discovered that they do mind. > * the customer service is excellent > * it's only gone down once (at least, at my place - your mileage may vary) > * they run a Debian mirror! > > I really prefer buying the modem as opposed to renting it. I know a > few people (myself included) who quit Sympatico and never received the > package to return the modem! After many threatening phone calls (from > their side), we eventually had to take the modem on the deadline date > to a Bellworld and insist they take it. I guess Bell figures that, > since they are losing a customer, they might as well cash in on the > $300 fee? > > In conclusion: Look rocks and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Hmm, no static ip, don't seem to indicate directly if you can use a modem you already own, and I can't find a copy of their terms of service on the web site. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:00:01 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:00:01 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629173714.GC23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> <20050629173714.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Some people think rogers doesn't mind, other people have discovered that > they do mind. My girlfriend discovered this when she mentioned to tech support that she was running a web server. She runs it to share photos with friends and family, so it's extremely low-traffic. Her connection immediately went out and stayed out for the rest of the day. However, they haven't blocked port 80 or anything... maybe it was just a coincidence? A very unlikely one? > Hmm, no static ip, don't seem to indicate directly if you can use a > modem you already own, and I can't find a copy of their terms of service > on the web site. http://www.look.ca/page.asp?intNodeID=2615 I have no idea if you can use an existing modem. I think the one they sell you is just part of the "start-up" fee. In any case, it's a darn sight better than renting for $10/month of whatever Sympatico charges. No static IP, that's correct. I just use a free dynamic DNS solution. My router has a built-in client but most providers have a Perl script or a Linux binary. -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:11:38 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629173230.27272.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37638.206.186.8.130.1120068698.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> ATI always had excellent hardware but very poor drivers, on any platform I know! The best product they had was probably the old EGA wonder :-) For years I bought ATI cards for my machines and last year decided to give up and switch to nVidia, which offers imnmensely better software and support. Unfortunately... Fran?ois Ouellette > I am in the process of writing an new article that > deals with video cards which I hope will be published > on the Linux Journal website. > > As part of the article I will need to offer > suggestions as to what sort of video card to buy. Now > I like the idea of promoting firms that are based in > Canada, and even better firms that are based in the > greater Toronto area (and video card builder ATI with > it's headquarters in Markham counts). > > However, all reports I have seen give ATI (very) poor > marks for the Linux video card drivers (compared to > nVidia), and reports of ATI Linux install issues are > also discouraging (compared to nVidia). So the > question is can I suggest people seriously look at ATI > as reasonable Linux option? > > > > Colin McGregor > > P.S. Just out of curiosity how many people on the list > have written for/been paid for computer related > publications over the past year? If Marcel Gagne is > still on the list he would take top prize. I know > Chris Johnson, William Park and I have, who else? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:16:11 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:16:11 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629173230.27272.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050629181611.GA4967@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:32:30PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >As part of the article I will need to offer >suggestions as to what sort of video card to buy. Now >I like the idea of promoting firms that are based in >Canada, and even better firms that are based in the >greater Toronto area (and video card builder ATI with >it's headquarters in Markham counts). A Canadian outfit that I have found gives me excellent results is Matrox. They have and support Linux drivers on their web site, and the cards themselves seem rock solid. I don't play games so I cannot comment on that score, but I have been very happy with the performance of my G450 on two monitors for 5+ years - longer than any piece of hardware I own (other than a couple of power cords ;-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:40:28 2005 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:40:28 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <37638.206.186.8.130.1120068698.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <37638.206.186.8.130.1120068698.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050629184028.GA16985@localhost> I struggled with a nvidia card alot recently, it was a top model when bought about 1.5 years ago. As far as drivers went, i only had one problem, when i switched to a brand new 2.6.X kernel, there drivers compiled with error, i wrote them, they had it fixed almost immediately so I give them top marks for that. But I recently had to go back to ATI, why? for any video app that used XV i.e. mplayer -vo xv, the playback window would eventually always go BLUE and stay that way , and id have to shutdown and releaunch my X11, something i hate doing because i usually run with about 60 windows open across 13 desktop screens and go usually 200+ days between reboots so it was annoying with this new Nvidia to almost daily have to restart X. It also seemed to periodically crash hard. With ATI it all went away. This blue XV screen has been reported (on google news a dozen times) but no one has clearly identified the problem and thus no fixes. I think with a nvidia card 5 years ago on a Windows OS (yeah i hate to admit it, but i used windoes about 5 years ago :( ) i also had the problem. So i see this as a show stopper for nvidia. I wouldnt buy one of the cards again until they 100% identified and fixed this problem. The work around is to -vo x11 or -vo but the hardware accel. and overlay caps. arent th same. I also have had no problem with the gatos for my ati for vid cap. In fact the reason i switched to Linux 5 years ago was that win2000 and ati radeon vid cap ... it crashed win2000 OS dead m,ultiple times a day, and i tried everytjing, new ram, mobo, bios settings, switch to linux and gatos and ati card never crashed! I switched to nvidia 1.5 years ago just as part of a whole system upgrade and had the BLUE playback video problem and just lived with it, ( -vo x11 ) but finally decided it was better to have a machine tht never had to have X11 reset and be a bit slower, then have that happen, so back to ATI. -tl On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 02:11:38PM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > ATI always had excellent hardware but very poor drivers, on any platform I > know! The best product they had was probably the old EGA wonder :-) > > For years I bought ATI cards for my machines and last year decided to give > up and switch to nVidia, which offers imnmensely better software and > support. Unfortunately... > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > > > I am in the process of writing an new article that > > deals with video cards which I hope will be published > > on the Linux Journal website. > > > > As part of the article I will need to offer > > suggestions as to what sort of video card to buy. Now > > I like the idea of promoting firms that are based in > > Canada, and even better firms that are based in the > > greater Toronto area (and video card builder ATI with > > it's headquarters in Markham counts). > > > > However, all reports I have seen give ATI (very) poor > > marks for the Linux video card drivers (compared to > > nVidia), and reports of ATI Linux install issues are > > also discouraging (compared to nVidia). So the > > question is can I suggest people seriously look at ATI > > as reasonable Linux option? > > > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > P.S. Just out of curiosity how many people on the list > > have written for/been paid for computer related > > publications over the past year? If Marcel Gagne is > > still on the list he would take top prize. I know > > Chris Johnson, William Park and I have, who else? > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:39:19 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629173230.27272.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050629183919.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:32:30PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am in the process of writing an new article that > deals with video cards which I hope will be published > on the Linux Journal website. > > As part of the article I will need to offer > suggestions as to what sort of video card to buy. Now > I like the idea of promoting firms that are based in > Canada, and even better firms that are based in the > greater Toronto area (and video card builder ATI with > it's headquarters in Markham counts). > > However, all reports I have seen give ATI (very) poor > marks for the Linux video card drivers (compared to > nVidia), and reports of ATI Linux install issues are > also discouraging (compared to nVidia). So the > question is can I suggest people seriously look at ATI > as reasonable Linux option? In my experience, nvidia drivers just work and are simple to install (debian even includes a nice package of the drivers in non-free to make installing them simple. I even wrote a howto on it (http://www.tinyplanet.ca/~lsorense/debian/debian-nvidia-dri-howto.txt) on June22 they released a driver update for Linux to support the 7800 cards. Given I don't think you could even pick one up in a store yet at that point, that seems like pretty good support to me. That includes drivers for x86, x86_64, freebsd x86 and solaris x86/x64. Only poor itanium users are left way behind in support (and as if there are really any of those). The ATI drivers I have not ever had much luck with. They seem to never support the latest chips (at least not any I encountered) and especially lack support on mobile chips. Matrox seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. I personally stopped buying ATI hardware for machines I built in the late 90s after getting sufficiently ticked off at their driver quality for windows and support for hardware that was 2 or 3 years old. Only recently have I heard nvidia is planning on dropping support in their main driver base for TnT cards and early geforce chips. So far my TNT2 always worked just fine, and I believe they intend to maintain a driver base for older cards that just won't have new featured added to it, but I don't know for sure since I only read it one place recently. > P.S. Just out of curiosity how many people on the list > have written for/been paid for computer related > publications over the past year? If Marcel Gagne is > still on the list he would take top prize. I know > Chris Johnson, William Park and I have, who else? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:39:59 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:39:59 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <37638.206.186.8.130.1120068698.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <37638.206.186.8.130.1120068698.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050629183959.GE23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 02:11:38PM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > ATI always had excellent hardware but very poor drivers, on any platform I > know! The best product they had was probably the old EGA wonder :-) > > For years I bought ATI cards for my machines and last year decided to give > up and switch to nVidia, which offers imnmensely better software and > support. Unfortunately... Ditto, and I live just down the street from ATI. :( Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:43:38 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:43:38 -0400 Subject: Can anyone reach istop? In-Reply-To: References: <47796.129.33.49.251.1119966084.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C15603.3000103@mineallmeyn.com> <200506282215.17799.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20050629123036.GB3317@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1120063583.11273.5.camel@debian> <20050629165502.GA23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050629184338.GF23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:04:51PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 6/29/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Hey neat, they offer Dry DSL (service on an inactive phone line). It > > costs more ($17/month + DSL service cost it appears for around here), > > but at least it is an option for people who want to go VoIP and not use > > rogers while canceling regular phone service. > > Rogers allows cablemodems for customers who do not order cable TV > service. Historically they charged a $10/month fee for this, which > they informed me (via snail mail) will no longer be the case (i.e. > $0/month). Sure, but some of us would rather not use rogers if we had a choice, and would prefer something that permits servers and static IPs. It's wasn't a matter of having to pay the $10/month to get rogers without cabletv, it was a matter of having choices without using either bell or rogers at all. > One must suspect that the CRTC has given them no choice... :) Quite likely. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 18:45:50 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:45:50 -0400 Subject: [solved]: Can't get wine going In-Reply-To: References: <20050627205335.GB20238@waltdnes.org> <20050628131028.GC23821@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050629184550.GA9659@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 06:43:57AM -0700, Joseph Kubik wrote > what user are you logged in as? > what X server are you using? mea culpa. Ignore what I said. I prefer to run texmode, and some textmode apps like mc (Midnight Commander) have optional X support. If it's compiled in, mc has given me problems when running in real text mode. In Gentoo, the USE variable controls *OPTIONAL* dependancy / support, but not required dependancies. So I turned off *OPTIONAL* X support building for all apps. You'd figure that X would be a required dependancy for wine, well guess again. Wine also has a straight console mode, that uses ttydrv.dll.so, rather than x11drv.dll.so. So when I said "-X" (i.e. no *OPTIONAL* X support, wine got built without x11drv.dll.so... oops. I went and over-rode the selection for wine only, and it built. Now Chessmaster 3000 comes up with the splashscreen and halts there. Notepad works OK, so wine is functional. Chessmaster is the problem. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:02:38 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:02:38 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> <20050629173714.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C2F04E.5040700@rogers.com> Mike Newman wrote: > On 6/29/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>Some people think rogers doesn't mind, other people have discovered that >>they do mind. > My girlfriend discovered this when she mentioned to tech support that > she was running a web server. She runs it to share photos with friends > and family, so it's extremely low-traffic. Her connection immediately > went out and stayed out for the rest of the day. However, they haven't > blocked port 80 or anything... maybe it was just a coincidence? A very > unlikely one? > >>Hmm, no static ip, don't seem to indicate directly if you can use a >>modem you already own, and I can't find a copy of their terms of service >>on the web site. > http://www.look.ca/page.asp?intNodeID=2615 > I have no idea if you can use an existing modem. I think the one they > sell you is just part of the "start-up" fee. In any case, it's a darn > sight better than renting for $10/month of whatever Sympatico charges. > > No static IP, that's correct. I just use a free dynamic DNS solution. > My router has a built-in client but most providers have a Perl script > or a Linux binary. > On Rogers, you get better service with your own modem, rather than renting theirs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:02:17 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:02:17 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629183919.GD23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050629183919.GD23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050629190217.GA5333@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 02:39:19PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Matrox seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. They seem to be up and running fairly recently. They have forum posts from this week, a press release about expanding their PCI express line from the end of May and their online store is functional - they are still doing business with some of the big distributors too. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:04:39 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:04:39 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2F04E.5040700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> <20050629173714.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C2F04E.5040700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050629190439.GG23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 03:02:38PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > On Rogers, you get better service with your own modem, rather than > renting theirs. Faster yes, better I doubt. Seems to be the same darn modem to me with a different configuration for transfer rates. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:12:04 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:12:04 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2F04E.5040700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> <20050629173714.GC23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C2F04E.5040700@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, James Knott wrote: > On Rogers, you get better service with your own modem, rather than > renting theirs. Read: faster service. $46.95/month for 5Mbps/800kbps if you (buy the modem or pay $3/mo) for Extreme. $44.95/month for 3Mbps/384kbps (you rent the modem, period) for Express. (followed by Lite and UltraLite) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:23:49 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629190217.GA5333-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629190217.GA5333@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050629192349.74819.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William O'Higgins wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 02:39:19PM -0400, Lennart > Sorensen wrote: > > >Matrox seems to have disappeared off the face of > the earth. > > They seem to be up and running fairly recently. > They have forum posts > from this week, a press release about expanding > their PCI express line > from the end of May and their online store is > functional - they are > still doing business with some of the big > distributors too. > -- My impression is that Matrox, like SiS is still here, but have become very small fish in a pond dominated by ATI and nVidia. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 19:22:54 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:22:54 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2CC02.1090305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200506291522.54715.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On June 29, 2005 12:27, James Knott wrote: > Taavi Burns wrote: > > On 6/29/05, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > >>Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via > >> the Rogers network. Besides, if they blocked port 25, I could always > >> access the external smtp server using an ssh or IPSec tunnel. > > > > As do I, but that's incoming port 25, not outgoing. All threads so > > far refer to Rogers blocking outbound port 25 (sending mail directly > > to someone else's mail server), not inbound port 25 (receiving mail to > > a server which you're running). > > Actually, in this day 'n age, I'd expect that if an ISP allows remote > connections, it should be via a secure connection, rather than port 25. I just checked. I'm actually connecting to another port, not 25, via SSL so 25 could be blocked and I wouldn't know it. I could also do what I do for POP, which is to put: ssh -C -f me-3Q2Tfjf0mexWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -L 11110:mydomain.com:110 sleep 5 in the precommand field in KMail and point to localhost:11110 to check POP mail. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 20:02:23 2005 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:02:23 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) Message-ID: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> Hey everyone, I've been trying to track down a flat bed scanner (for books) and a slide scanner for my dad. Most of the options that I would have gone with appear to be sold out... I've been trying to cross reference from here: http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=&model=&bus=any and with Staples/Future Shop...but I'm wondering if anyone can make some recommendations. The Epson Perfection 1260 Photoscanner doesn't seem to exist anymore (we can get the slide adaptor, but not the scanner itself). Suggestions would be *greatly* appreciated. I've already spent several hours trying to figure this out but with no luck. emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 20:05:19 2005 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:05:19 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629192349.74819.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629190217.GA5333@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050629192349.74819.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f05062913054275a1a@mail.gmail.com> Having just switched to SUSE 9.3 Pro yesterday, I'm happy to say that my ATi 9200 is back in working order, with 3-D acceleration, etc. I've benchmarked the performance in Quake 3 under Linux and Win2K and got about 88 fps in both. In 9.2 Pro, 3-D was either non-funcioning or ran through the vesa driver. All my attempts to install both the ATi-supplied driver and the suse-supplied ATi rpm failed, even though all the requirements were met. The system either defaulted to vesa or refused to start x altogether. When I tried swapping for an GeForce MX440, everything worked perfectly, nvidia's driver was fine, but Q3 performance wasn't there. It seems that both ATi and NVidia cards work, but if you're looking for performance, the best bet would be the latter. Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 20:28:08 2005 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:28:08 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive Message-ID: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> I have an old 20MB hard drive running RedHat with 2 partitions. I'd like to move the entire drive and its contents to a new 120MB drive without having to re-install all of my apps, databases, files, etc. Can I use 'dd' for this - even if the drive parameters are not the same??? Any suggestions??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 21:06:00 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:06:00 -0400 Subject: Postgres Question In-Reply-To: <42C2C75B.1050407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C2C75B.1050407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I need to search on the $ value of something in a table where multiple > currencies are allowed, and the currency conversion rates are in another > table. > > For instance, on EBay, things can be listed in US, CDN or GBP etc... > > Assuming the table has these fields: > > Value | Currency > ----------------- > 10.00 | US > 25.00 | CDN > 30.00 | GBP > > and the conversion table had these fields: > > Currency | Conversion > ---------------------- > US | 1 > CDN | .75 > GBP | .55 > > (Yes, values ARE guessed at here. ;) ) > > What would be the sainest way to search for anything less than $x CDN? Something akin to... /* cbbrowne@[local]/dba2 la=*/ select * from amounts; value | curr -------+------ 10.00 | US 25.00 | CDN 30.00 | GBP (3 rows) /* cbbrowne@[local]/dba2 la=*/ select * from currs; curr | conversion ------+------------ US | 1.00 CDN | 0.75 GBP | 0.55 (3 rows) /* cbbrowne@[local]/dba2 la=*/ select a.*, a.value / c.conversion from amounts a, currs c where c.curr = a.curr ; value | curr | ?column? -------+------+--------------------- 10.00 | US | 10.0000000000000000 25.00 | CDN | 33.3333333333333333 30.00 | GBP | 54.5454545454545455 (3 rows) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 21:37:09 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:37:09 -0700 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: The best way would be to stick them both in one server, and format the new drive the way you want it. THen, use cp to copy from one partition to another. -Joseph- On 6/29/05, Jon Thiele wrote: > > I have an old 20MB hard drive running RedHat with 2 partitions. I'd like to > move the entire drive and its contents to a new 120MB drive without having > to re-install all of my apps, databases, files, etc. > > Can I use 'dd' for this - even if the drive parameters are not the same??? > > Any suggestions??? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 21:43:51 2005 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:43:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers block out Re:Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200506291522.54715.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <200506291522.54715.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050629214351.GA18472@localhost> runing an isp and adminsitering a few more, this rogers smtp off load over the last couple of days has been weird. Rogers soln: go to port 587 (they suggested) and put a firewall rule in at smtp source to map that to 25, i did that for myself (isp) and another and works like a charm, only issue is, all the rogers peopl ehaev to change there smtp port set up in their client. rogers block of 25 is on going, they might not have to across all yet, we have pockets up and pocket down 2 days ago, but seems most rogers people are now fully blocked. Most important Rogers acknowledges the problem, they put smtp to a 3rd party, and i think that is yahoo or aol isnt it? anyways they really royally screwed things up why did they do it ? probabl ywindows viruses hacking on port 25 anywhere, and by only allowing access using 25 on rogers nets, to pre approved smtp server, i guess its adios smtp based windows viruses!!! no actaully to bad an idea! -tl On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 03:22:54PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On June 29, 2005 12:27, James Knott wrote: > > Taavi Burns wrote: > > > On 6/29/05, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > >>Not true. I use my own smtp server which I access without a problem via > > >> the Rogers network. Besides, if they blocked port 25, I could always > > >> access the external smtp server using an ssh or IPSec tunnel. > > > > > > As do I, but that's incoming port 25, not outgoing. All threads so > > > far refer to Rogers blocking outbound port 25 (sending mail directly > > > to someone else's mail server), not inbound port 25 (receiving mail to > > > a server which you're running). > > > > Actually, in this day 'n age, I'd expect that if an ISP allows remote > > connections, it should be via a secure connection, rather than port 25. > > I just checked. I'm actually connecting to another port, not 25, via SSL so 25 > could be blocked and I wouldn't know it. I could also do what I do for POP, > which is to put: > > ssh -C -f me-3Q2Tfjf0mexWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -L 11110:mydomain.com:110 sleep 5 > > in the precommand field in KMail and point to localhost:11110 to check POP > mail. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis Corporation > 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 21:52:21 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:52:21 -0400 Subject: Rogers block out Re:Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050629214351.GA18472@localhost> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <200506291522.54715.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050629214351.GA18472@localhost> Message-ID: <42C31815.40504@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > runing an isp and adminsitering a few more, > this rogers smtp off load over the last couple of days has been weird. > Rogers soln: > go to port 587 (they suggested) > and put a firewall rule in at smtp source to map that to 25, > i did that for myself (isp) and another and works like a charm, only issue is, > all the rogers peopl ehaev to change there smtp port set up in their client. Why not use port 465, which is the SSL port for SMTP servers. Any decent mail client should be able to support it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 21:53:18 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:53:18 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> Message-ID: <42C3184E.8080909@rogers.com> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've been trying to track down a flat bed scanner (for books) and a slide > scanner for my dad. Most of the options that I would have gone with appear > to be sold out... > > I've been trying to cross reference from here: > http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=&model=&bus=any > and with Staples/Future Shop...but I'm wondering if anyone can make some > recommendations. The Epson Perfection 1260 Photoscanner doesn't seem to > exist anymore (we can get the slide adaptor, but not the scanner itself). > > Suggestions would be *greatly* appreciated. I've already spent several > hours trying to figure this out but with no luck. Why not go for a later Epson scanner? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 22:00:58 2005 From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:00:58 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050629164712.GZ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> It is istop:xxx-vneRAHz810s at public.gmane.org It appears to be a typo in the previous post. Other thing, I noticed a change in DNS servers: From: DNS 1: 66.11.164.178 DNS 2: 66.11.167.161 To: DNS 1: 216.58.97.21 DNS 2: 216.58.97.20 Are you able to ping/traceroute www.google.com by its ip-addr [64.233.167.99]? That will show you how far you can go. Till yesterday last evening after the id change, I was not able to go beyond g0.bbr02.gta.igs.net [216.58.97.1]. It got fixed by this morning. Shams Wednesday, June 29, 2005, 12:47:12 PM, you wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:16:52PM -0400, hui xu wrote: >> My home network still can not connect to istop. The following >> command is what I am using usually: >> >> 1. ifconfig eth1 up >> >> 2. pppd eth1 >> >> 3. ping www.google.com >> >> I got "network not reachable" >> >> I called istop. it always busy >> >> Can anybody give me a help to connect to the network > Did you update your username from xxx-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org to istop:xxx-gm89wTbbEYE at public.gmane.org? > That is what the istop.com status page currently says to do. > Your username basically changes to istop:username (yes istop: is part of > the login) at some other isp they work with to try and deal with the > mess. > Worked for my parents connection this morning. > IP and routing and all carries on as normal it seems. > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 22:42:58 2005 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <1428276403.20050629180058-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050629224258.89419.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> I will give a try tonight. Thank you very much! Louie login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: It is istop:xxx-vneRAHz810s at public.gmane.org It appears to be a typo in the previous post. Other thing, I noticed a change in DNS servers: From: DNS 1: 66.11.164.178 DNS 2: 66.11.167.161 To: DNS 1: 216.58.97.21 DNS 2: 216.58.97.20 Are you able to ping/traceroute www.google.com by its ip-addr [64.233.167.99]? That will show you how far you can go. Till yesterday last evening after the id change, I was not able to go beyond g0.bbr02.gta.igs.net [216.58.97.1]. It got fixed by this morning. Shams Wednesday, June 29, 2005, 12:47:12 PM, you wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:16:52PM -0400, hui xu wrote: >> My home network still can not connect to istop. The following >> command is what I am using usually: >> >> 1. ifconfig eth1 up >> >> 2. pppd eth1 >> >> 3. ping www.google.com >> >> I got "network not reachable" >> >> I called istop. it always busy >> >> Can anybody give me a help to connect to the network > Did you update your username from xxx-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org to istop:xxx-gm89wTbbEYE at public.gmane.org? > That is what the istop.com status page currently says to do. > Your username basically changes to istop:username (yes istop: is part of > the login) at some other isp they work with to try and deal with the > mess. > Worked for my parents connection this morning. > IP and routing and all carries on as normal it seems. > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 22:57:35 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Network/Linux Admin Position (fwd) Message-ID: Hi all. I received this as a contact person for GTALUG. I am assured there is an actual position here that needs to be filled urgently. Don't contact me, contact the person mentioned below. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- An expanding Mississauga organization is looking for a Network Administrator specializing in Linux with the following qualifications: At least 5 years experience as a Network Administrator in Linux At least 3 years experience with Windows 2000 workstations/servers Expert proficiency in Firewall Configuration/Security, Sendmail, Samba, Backup procedures Expert proficiency in Apache and MySQL administration Fluent in Written/Spoken English At least 2 years experience working in Canada The following qualifications are an asset but not required: Familiar with IBM Domino Server Familiar with Server Based Antivirus solutions CISSP, Server+, Linux+ or RHCE Certifications Duties include Linux Server configuration on the services outlined above, monitoring of security logs on servers, firewalls and workstations, updates to DNS records,looking after security updates, verifying system and database backups and enforcing security policies. Some basic Windows 2000 administration would also be required. There will be a written test to verify all required skills Salary is negotiable based on experience and qualifications Those interested should send their cover letters and credentials to libster2005-OKxsdJkEjlFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 22:31:32 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:31:32 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> Message-ID: <42C32144.5050801@sympatico.ca> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > > I've been trying to track down a flat bed scanner (for books) and a slide > scanner for my dad. Most of the options that I would have gone with appear > to be sold out... What size of trannies do you need to scan? Epson are the only manufacturer making flatbeds that can double as tranny scanners worth a dern. They're still a lot softer and less contrasty than a real slide scanner, though. > I've been trying to cross reference from here: > http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=&model=&bus=any This is one of the few occasions I'd strongly recommend using commercial software. SANE's controls are very poor. Ed Hamrick's software is pretty cheap, yet supports more scanners under Linux than you could think possible: Henry's outlet store at Queen and Jarvis may be your friend for a huge range of models. cheers, Stewart > and with Staples/Future Shop...but I'm wondering if anyone can make some > recommendations. The Epson Perfection 1260 Photoscanner doesn't seem to > exist anymore (we can get the slide adaptor, but not the scanner itself). > > Suggestions would be *greatly* appreciated. I've already spent several > hours trying to figure this out but with no luck. > > emma > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 23:43:49 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629181611.GA4967-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629181611.GA4967@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > A Canadian outfit that I have found gives me excellent results is > Matrox. They have and support Linux drivers on their web site, and the > cards themselves seem rock solid. I don't play games so I cannot > comment on that score... The one place where Matrox historically has been hopeless is support for high-speed dynamic 3D graphics. That is, games. It's never been a priority of theirs and they're no longer competitive at all there. But for clear, *sharp*, high-resolution text or not-too-dynamic graphics, their cards blow the doors off everything else. I can't say I'm up on the latest hardware, but last time I looked, nVidia and ATI ran a very poor second there. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 00:00:16 2005 From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:00:16 -0400 Subject: SugarCRM experiences? In-Reply-To: <42C1589C.5030603-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <42C1589C.5030603@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <200506292000.16486.dmorton@ilap.com> On June 28, 2005 10:03 am, Rob Sutherland wrote: Using sugar CRM for the past 6 months, very easy to set up and no failures. I am a health practitioner using it for keeping patient information such as lab results, correspondence, etc. The other staff in our offices use it for scheduling patient visits, lawyers conferences etc. It is a large part of our paperless office which has been around since 1999. Dave Morton If you want more detailed info as to how this has been implemented, give me a call on my cell 647.225.1989 (Toronto). I'm working on an article on SugarCRM - http://www.sugarcrm.com , a LAMP > package that handles > sales leads and customer tracking among other things. Anyone have any > success/failure stories, opinions > about it? > > Rob > > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com > Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 02:57:24 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:57:24 -0500 Subject: tool to mesaure internet traffic In-Reply-To: References: <005b01c57848$bb5addc0$6600a8c0@bogdan> <1119594009.19390.12.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On 6/24/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > Everyone, > > Thank you for the suggestions. I have a lot of research to do now > before I make my choice/choices. Check your firewall.. it may have simple accounting functions. It's not as easy as a little applet, but if it's there then you're work is already done. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 03:00:41 2005 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:00:41 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <42C32144.5050801-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> <42C32144.5050801@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050630030041.GB7394@smeagol> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 06:31:32PM -0400, Stewart C.Russell wrote: > What size of trannies do you need to scan? Epson are the only > manufacturer making flatbeds that can double as tranny scanners worth a > dern. They're still a lot softer and less contrasty than a real slide > scanner, though. Fortunately just 35mm slides. The scans need to be good enough to use in "PowerPoint" presentations, and possibly reproduced in print. Although the immediate need is digital presentations. Do you think a dual-purpose scanner will be good enough? The other option was to get a digital camera with a slide adapter instead of a slide scanner...but this starts becoming more of a photography question than a Linux question. ;) > This is one of the few occasions I'd strongly recommend using commercial > software. SANE's controls are very poor. Ed Hamrick's software is pretty > cheap, yet supports more scanners under Linux than you could think > possible: Ahh! Thanks for the recommendation. We'll check out Henry's. I don't think I realized they had scanners. I thought they were more cameras than anything else. regards, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 03:07:45 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:07:45 -0500 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, Mike Newman wrote: > I've been with Look for TV and DSL for a long time, and I'm extremely > happy with it. > http://www.look.ca/page.asp?intNodeID=2440 > If you have their TV service they have bundle offers that are a bit cheaper. > > Basically: > * there is no upload or download cap > * they do not restrict ports and they do not mind if you run servers > * the customer service is excellent > * it's only gone down once (at least, at my place - your mileage may vary) > * they run a Debian mirror! > > I really prefer buying the modem as opposed to renting it. I know a > few people (myself included) who quit Sympatico and never received the > package to return the modem! After many threatening phone calls (from > their side), we eventually had to take the modem on the deadline date > to a Bellworld and insist they take it. I guess Bell figures that, > since they are losing a customer, they might as well cash in on the > $300 fee? > > In conclusion: Look rocks and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Another vote for Look from me. I've been using Bell and they seem really awfully slow. I'm seriously considering moving back to Look since I still have the original modem I bought a while back. I had a great experience with them when I was using them.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 03:18:34 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:18:34 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <20050630030041.GB7394@smeagol> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> <42C32144.5050801@sympatico.ca> <20050630030041.GB7394@smeagol> Message-ID: <42C3648A.9090609@sympatico.ca> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > > Fortunately just 35mm slides. Actually, that's not so fortunate. Larger formats need lower resolutions, and 35mm needs anything from 1600-4800 dpi scanning to look good in print. Also, it's really only C41 (colour negative) and E6 (Ektachrome/Fujichrome/etc) that scan well. Silver B&W and Kodachrome can be bleah. The latest Epsons can handle these resolutions. > We'll check out Henry's. I don't think I realized they had scanners. I > thought they were more cameras than anything else. They're all about the imaging. Just don't mention Linux ... ;-) cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 03:55:31 2005 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:55:31 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29153.3090100-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <1120103731.5163.3.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I've been using Abacus.ca (Redhat Linux) for a while now. No complaints. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 08:17 -0400, Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to find an ISP in Toronto for a friend. Not being from the > area I figured one of the best places to ask is always the local LUG. > Basically I would like them to have a fixed IP (for firewall reasons), > no port restrictions and unlimited transfers would be nice. > > Looking for a reliable (no down time) provider with a good reputation > and fair prices. > > All suggestions are greatfully appreciated. > > Regards, > Mike > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 13:16:27 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:16:27 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <20050630030041.GB7394@smeagol> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> <42C32144.5050801@sympatico.ca> <20050630030041.GB7394@smeagol> Message-ID: <42C3F0AB.4030508@rogers.com> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 06:31:32PM -0400, Stewart C.Russell wrote: >>What size of trannies do you need to scan? Epson are the only >>manufacturer making flatbeds that can double as tranny scanners worth a >>dern. They're still a lot softer and less contrasty than a real slide >>scanner, though. > > Fortunately just 35mm slides. The scans need to be good enough to use in > "PowerPoint" presentations, and possibly reproduced in print. Although the > immediate need is digital presentations. Do you think a dual-purpose > scanner will be good enough? The other option was to get a digital camera > with a slide adapter instead of a slide scanner...but this starts becoming > more of a photography question than a Linux question. ;) If you have yet to take the picture, you might as well use a digital camera and forget about scanning. If you want to use existing slides, then a scanner is what you need. Also, if this is a one time deal, you might try having the scanning done at one of the camera stores. They're all set up for transfering slides and negatives to digital formats. > >>This is one of the few occasions I'd strongly recommend using commercial >>software. SANE's controls are very poor. Ed Hamrick's software is pretty >>cheap, yet supports more scanners under Linux than you could think >>possible: > > Ahh! Thanks for the recommendation. > > We'll check out Henry's. I don't think I realized they had scanners. I > thought they were more cameras than anything else. When I bought my Epson scanner last year, it was availabe at Henry's, but much cheaper at Future Shop. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 14:24:10 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:24:10 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C2A5C4.9000805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> Message-ID: Yea.. same with simpatico. Its actually a retarded policy though. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: June 29, 2005 9:45 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Need an ISP in TO Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote: >>The firewall is simply iptables. So I imagine it would be possible. >>Does Rogers block ports? 25, 80? >> >> >> I have read reports that Roger's is blocking port 25 except to their own smtp server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 15:39:42 2005 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050629224258.89419.qmail-+Hr5lMjvZOWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629224258.89419.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050630153942.7179.qmail@web50808.mail.yahoo.com> After changing the username, it works Thank you very much! Louie hui xu wrote: I will give a try tonight. Thank you very much! Louie login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: It is istop:xxx-vneRAHz810s at public.gmane.org It appears to be a typo in the previous post. Other thing, I noticed a change in DNS servers: From: DNS 1: 66.11.164.178 DNS 2: 66.11.167.161 To: DNS 1: 216.58.97.21 DNS 2: 216.58.97.20 Are you able to ping/traceroute www.google.com by its ip-addr [64.233.167.99]? That will show you how far you can go. Till yesterday last evening after the id change, I was not able to go beyond g0.bbr02.gta.igs.net [216.58.97.1]. It got fixed by this morning. Shams Wednesday, June 29, 2005, 12:47:12 PM, you wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 12:16:52PM -0400, hui xu wrote: >> My home network still can not connect to istop. The following >> command is what I am using usually: >> >> 1. ifconfig eth1 up >> >> 2. pppd eth1 >> >> 3. ping www.google.com >> >> I got "network not reachable" >> >> I called istop. it always busy >> >> Can anybody give me a help to connect to the network > Did you update your username from xxx-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org to istop:xxx-gm89wTbbEYE at public.gmane.org? > That is what the istop.com status page currently says to do. > Your username basically changes to istop:username (yes istop: is part of > the login) at some other isp they work with to try and deal with the > mess. > Worked for my parents connection this morning. > IP and routing and all carries on as normal it seems. > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:22:57 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:22:57 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: References: <20050629181611.GA4967@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050630162257.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 07:43:49PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > The one place where Matrox historically has been hopeless is support for > high-speed dynamic 3D graphics. That is, games. It's never been a > priority of theirs and they're no longer competitive at all there. > > But for clear, *sharp*, high-resolution text or not-too-dynamic graphics, > their cards blow the doors off everything else. I can't say I'm up on > the latest hardware, but last time I looked, nVidia and ATI ran a very > poor second there. I would think anything using DVI-D would have the same graphics on any video card given it is digital to the screen. Any image quality problems would then be a result of the video card. For the analog output, yes Matrox has a reputation for very good stable output. Of course for me, that isn't enough to give up everything else I might want to use a video card for given I think the 2D output of the nvidia cards is perfectly fine even at 1940x1440 at 75Hz. Never had a problem with the ATIs I have bought, although I have seen bad output on some lower end models years ago. It's a shame about the software though... :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:44:50 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:44:50 -0400 Subject: slide scanners (again) In-Reply-To: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> References: <20050629200223.GB6084@smeagol> Message-ID: <20050630164450.GI23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 04:02:23PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > I've been trying to track down a flat bed scanner (for books) and a slide > scanner for my dad. Most of the options that I would have gone with appear > to be sold out... > > I've been trying to cross reference from here: > http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=&model=&bus=any > and with Staples/Future Shop...but I'm wondering if anyone can make some > recommendations. The Epson Perfection 1260 Photoscanner doesn't seem to > exist anymore (we can get the slide adaptor, but not the scanner itself). > > Suggestions would be *greatly* appreciated. I've already spent several > hours trying to figure this out but with no luck. It is a shame epson stopped doing their own scanner chips, since now you can't just assume an epson scanner will work with sane, which in the past was pretty much just a given. It looks like the Epson 2480 and 2580 are mostly supported in the snapscan backend. I haven't used either though. They appear to handle negatives and slides, as far as I understand the features. The 2480 seems to go for about $120, while a 2580 photo (has a film auto loader thingy) goes for $190. Seems 12xx and 16xx are getting harder to find with the price so low on the 24xx/25xx models. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:49:32 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:49:32 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <1428276403.20050629180058-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 06:00:58PM -0400, login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > It is istop:xxx-vneRAHz810s at public.gmane.org It appears to be a typo > in the previous post. Yeah brain slip. Not sure where I got ign rather than igs from. > Other thing, I noticed a change in DNS servers: > > From: > DNS 1: 66.11.164.178 > DNS 2: 66.11.167.161 > > To: > DNS 1: 216.58.97.21 > DNS 2: 216.58.97.20 > > Are you able to ping/traceroute www.google.com by its > ip-addr [64.233.167.99]? That will show you how far you > can go. Till yesterday last evening after the id change, > I was not able to go beyond g0.bbr02.gta.igs.net [216.58.97.1]. > It got fixed by this morning. Well it looks like they are now getting ready to have customers of istop transition to cybersurf (which appears at least to charge the same monthly fee as istop for the same speed) sometime today. We will have to see how that goes. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:54:16 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:54:16 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050630165416.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 04:28:08PM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > > I have an old 20MB hard drive running RedHat with 2 partitions. I'd like to > move the entire drive and its contents to a new 120MB drive without having > to re-install all of my apps, databases, files, etc. > > Can I use 'dd' for this - even if the drive parameters are not the same??? No, that wouldn't be a good idea. Here is a better method: Install new hd as hdb or whatever works in the machine, then partition it as you want it, do mkfs and mkswap as necesary on the new partitions, then mount new root partition as /mnt or something, and cp -ax / /mnt to copy all the files over. Doing this in single user mode has the least chance of files being open/in use. Then install boot loader (grub-install --root-directory=/mnt /dev/hdb or lilo -r /mnt (I guess you have to temporarily change boot= to /dev/hdb or pass some other argument to override boot=. I don't use lilo anymore). After you unmount and possibly copy any other partitions (if any) and make sure your new fstab is right (if any partition order was changed on the new drive) you should be all set to use the drive in place of the old one. That's basically how I have done it in the past. cp -ax means copy recursively with special files and all permissions and time stamps and exclude other mounted filesystems (like /proc). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:54:23 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050630162257.GH23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630162257.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050630165423.5379.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would like to thank everyone for confirming what I strongly suspected to be true, that AT THE MOMENT nVidia cards are the way to go (just because the ATI video driver software sucks (a much more diplomatic version of this will be part of my aticle)). Colin McGregor --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 07:43:49PM -0400, Henry > Spencer wrote: > > The one place where Matrox historically has been > hopeless is support for > > high-speed dynamic 3D graphics. That is, games. > It's never been a > > priority of theirs and they're no longer > competitive at all there. > > > > But for clear, *sharp*, high-resolution text or > not-too-dynamic graphics, > > their cards blow the doors off everything else. I > can't say I'm up on > > the latest hardware, but last time I looked, > nVidia and ATI ran a very > > poor second there. > > I would think anything using DVI-D would have the > same graphics on any > video card given it is digital to the screen. Any > image quality > problems would then be a result of the video card. > > For the analog output, yes Matrox has a reputation > for very good stable > output. Of course for me, that isn't enough to give > up everything else > I might want to use a video card for given I think > the 2D output of the > nvidia cards is perfectly fine even at > 1940x1440 at 75Hz. Never had a > problem with the ATIs I have bought, although I have > seen bad output on > some lower end models years ago. It's a shame about > the software > though... :) > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 16:57:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:57:54 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050630165423.5379.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630162257.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050630165423.5379.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050630165754.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 12:54:23PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I would like to thank everyone for confirming what I > strongly suspected to be true, that AT THE MOMENT > nVidia cards are the way to go (just because the ATI > video driver software sucks (a much more diplomatic > version of this will be part of my aticle)). I have seen some people say that when the ati drivers work on your chip, they do have decent performance, but you do have that big if to deal with that unfortunately is not that easy to fit into. Diplomatic is certainly good. Maybe ATI will decide that they should try harder and do what nvidia does (release drivers at the same time for both, perhaps even built from one codebase). Linux deserves better than second class citizen treatment which is really what ATI is doing. Still better than treated as a nobody (with no support) but not as good as we expect. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 17:30:57 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:30:57 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050630165754.GL23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630162257.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050630165423.5379.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050630165754.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I played games on GNU/Linux for years, using both nVidia and ATI cards. I found that ATI's driver wasn't too bad. It was just kind of annoying that they only provided an RPM. The install file actually does walk you through using alien to convert it to a deb and get it installed. Still, I had trouble completely removing the driver when I switched back to nVidia. My advice if you want to support ATI: Get a cheapo nVidia card for the computer (it's enough to run Canadian-made Neverwinter Nights!) and then pick up a Nintendo Gamecube, which uses an ATI chipset. Right now I have a bit of a gaming powerhouse at home, but if I could do it again I'd have built an EPIA box with a generic, non-3D graphics card. Think about it: $700 for a gamer-oriented computer, or $87 for a new Gamecube! -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 29 20:10:35 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:10:35 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629173230.27272.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629173230.27272.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050629201035.GA1857@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:32:30PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am in the process of writing an new article that > deals with video cards which I hope will be published > on the Linux Journal website. You mean separate card? My last purchase was regular ATI Xpert98 AGP. I stopped buying separate video cards after that. If you mean integrated video, then I like Via UniChrome. Driver called 'via' comes with Xorg, and it seems to set monitor to higher Vsync than regular 'vesa' driver. It's cheap and disposable. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 17:46:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:46:40 -0400 Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: References: <20050630162257.GH23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050630165423.5379.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050630165754.GL23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050630174640.GM23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 01:30:57PM -0400, Mike Newman wrote: > I played games on GNU/Linux for years, using both nVidia and ATI > cards. I found that ATI's driver wasn't too bad. It was just kind of > annoying that they only provided an RPM. The install file actually > does walk you through using alien to convert it to a deb and get it > installed. Still, I had trouble completely removing the driver when I > switched back to nVidia. There are unofficial sites that maintain proper deb packages for the ati driver doing a much better job than alien would. They build the same way the nvidia packages for debian do. Doesn't fix which chips it supports, just makes the package install better. > My advice if you want to support ATI: Get a cheapo nVidia card for the > computer (it's enough to run Canadian-made Neverwinter Nights!) and > then pick up a Nintendo Gamecube, which uses an ATI chipset. Right now > I have a bit of a gaming powerhouse at home, but if I could do it > again I'd have built an EPIA box with a generic, non-3D graphics card. > Think about it: $700 for a gamer-oriented computer, or $87 for a new > Gamecube! I wonder how much ATI is payed for each gamecube... :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 17:53:46 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050630164932.GJ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Well it looks like they are now getting ready to have customers of istop > transition to cybersurf (which appears at least to charge the same > monthly fee as istop for the same speed) sometime today. We will have > to see how that goes. > Hmph, Bell cut my DSL, even dropping me from a conference call on my analog line for a few minutes. I'm going to investigate a cell phone plan and ditching my analog line as a backup. There's no point dealing with Bell anymore. This isn't the first thing they've done to demonstrate that they don't care about their customers. Yeah I'm bitter about the DSL, and technically that might or might not be iStop's fault, but interfering with my analog service to do so is unacceptable. They behave like a monopoly. Bell telephone certainly won't be calling up Bell Nexxia (or whomever is doing DSL these days) and complaining about upset customers on my behalf. They don't seem to abide by the spirit nor the letter of the CRTC's regulations. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 18:28:29 2005 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Domain name register help In-Reply-To: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050630182829.5542.qmail@web50809.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Could anybody give me a help for domain setup? I have a static ip adress from ISTOP and registered a domain name from "Regristeryour.CA". After a week, when I visisted www.mydomain.ca, It said my domain is currently parked. I called them, they said I need find a company to host my domain. But what I want is to host domain on my LINUX box with my own Static IP. How can I do it? Thank you very much! Louie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 18:44:52 2005 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jonathan zou) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:44:52 -0400 Subject: Domain name register help In-Reply-To: <20050630182829.5542.qmail-23FcKNrgct6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050630182829.5542.qmail@web50809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3009c0a805063011441de9a176@mail.gmail.com> use rogers first and keep looking for a new one,hope some new operators will come in On 6/30/05, hui xu wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Could anybody give me a help for domain setup? > > I have a static ip adress from ISTOP and registered a domain name from > "Regristeryour.CA". > > After a week, when I visisted www.mydomain.ca, It said my domain is > currently parked. I called them, they said I need find a company to host > my domain. > > > > But what I want is to host domain on my LINUX box with my own Static IP. > How can I do it? > > Thank you very much! > > Louie > > > > > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 18:59:07 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:59:07 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050630185907.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 01:53:46PM -0400, mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hmph, Bell cut my DSL, even dropping me from a conference call on my > analog line for a few minutes. > > I'm going to investigate a cell phone plan and ditching my analog line as > a backup. There's no point dealing with Bell anymore. This isn't the > first thing they've done to demonstrate that they don't care about their > customers. > > Yeah I'm bitter about the DSL, and technically that might or might not be > iStop's fault, but interfering with my analog service to do so is > unacceptable. They behave like a monopoly. Bell telephone certainly > won't be calling up Bell Nexxia (or whomever is doing DSL these days) and > complaining about upset customers on my behalf. > > They don't seem to abide by the spirit nor the letter of the CRTC's > regulations. I wonder if Bell realizes or even cares how bad this is making them look to a lot of people. You would think they could at least wait until the line wasn't in use. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 19:03:47 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia vs. ATI In-Reply-To: <20050629201035.GA1857-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629201035.GA1857@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050630190347.26051.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William Park wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:32:30PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > I am in the process of writing an new article that > > deals with video cards which I hope will be > published > > on the Linux Journal website. > > You mean separate card? My last purchase was > regular ATI Xpert98 AGP. > I stopped buying separate video cards after that. Yes, I mean a separate card, for reasons that I touch on here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 I do NOT like motherboards with built in video, and am not happy going down that road. A few years ago I had a very nasty experience with a motherboard that had an integrated SiS video chipset, what a piece of @#$* to get working with X-Windows. Since then thanks but no thanks, I want the option that when there is trouble I can just replace a card. > If you mean integrated video, then I like Via > UniChrome. Driver called > 'via' comes with Xorg, and it seems to set monitor > to higher Vsync than > regular 'vesa' driver. It's cheap and disposable. For a large roll-out of "dumb" terminals (or thin clients) in a tightly controlled business environment integrated video might make some sense (where once you solve the problems with one box you have solved it for dozens of identical boxes), but for general purpose computing, thanks but NO thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 20:05:57 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:05:57 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy Message-ID: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all the ones I know about appear down know). So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right now. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 20:49:17 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:49:17 -0400 Subject: (patch for Bash) Embedded web server + Bash In-Reply-To: <20050621232729.GA2152-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621232729.GA2152@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050630204917.GA24292@node1.opengeometry.net> Here is copy of what I posted to . I added shell interface to Libwebserver-0.6.0, http://stdio.linuxkafe.com/coding/projects/libwebserver-0.6.0-18.zip which is web server library. The official version of Libwebserver is still 0.5.3, and support for that will be added soon. Yes. You can now run embedded web server directly from shell script, totally independent of any external program. Serving out 2k file is about 7x slower than Apache. We're talking about shell script, so it's fast enough. :-) Ref: http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#libwebserver Example: func () { echo 'Content-Type: text/plain' echo echo "$*" declare -p inetname request alias_request method user pass } hello () { func Hello; } goodbye () { func Goodbye; } webserver -p 8080 -l help.log '* /h*' hello '* /g*' goodbye & lynx -head -source http://localhost:8080/hxxx lynx -head -source http://localhost:8080/gxxx Essentially, you register pairs of 'glob' and 'command' to web server: - 'glob' will be tested against 'method' and 'uri' of the request line. So, GET /index.html HTTP/1.0 will match glob pattern * /in* - 'command' can be anything you type on command line. So, it could be shell function, builtin command, external binary, etc. Normally with Apache and mod_* approach, web/user interface is the main program, and your data processing application is minor sub-component. In order to interact with the remote users, you have to run as CGI, save input data to file or database, and query the saved data (maybe in another connection and process), process it, and send the result back. With embedded approach, your data processing application is the main program, and web interface is the sub-component through which you interact with remote user. So, it's upside-down compared to Apache approach, or vice versa. Since shell script is for processing data, the embedded approach is far better. Indeed, your shell script is now the web server. Lots of issue simply disappear, and everything has returned to its natural state of simplicity and cleanness. Enjoy! -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 20:50:53 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <20050630200556.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all > the ones I know about appear down know). > > So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to > disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right > now. Aren't they still on strike too? I'm just blown away. They could simply not do this if there were another company selling wholesale DSL. The accounts would transfer to another wholesaler. The DSL lines aren't even useful without an upstream provider, who certainly would be paying Bell wholesale to provide DSL service. I called the 310 bell line about my phone service disruption this morning. The person who answered the phone couldn't even distinguish the difference between Bell's DSL service and phone service. "Of course they're connected, it makes perfect sense that your phonecall would be disrupted." They didn't even bat an eyelash that Bell's action against Istop customers interfered with their telephone service. Are data-capable phones with cellular service available or affordable on the Telus or Mike networks these days? I'd like to ditch my land line, go for a cheap Roger's cable connection and be able to dial up the office should my cable modem die. Not just because I want to get rid of Bell, but because caller ID and Voicemail is bizzarely expensive, and there's no point in keeping a landline when it is roughly the same price as a cell. I ask about those two networks because they have towers near my house: http://www.arcx.com/sites/ -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 20:51:00 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy Message-ID: <62563.129.33.49.251.1120164660.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all > the ones I know about appear down know). > > So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to > disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right > now. Aren't they still on strike too? I'm just blown away. They could simply not do this if there were another company selling wholesale DSL. The accounts would transfer to another wholesaler. The DSL lines aren't even useful without an upstream provider, who certainly would be paying Bell wholesale to provide DSL service. I called the 310 bell line about my phone service disruption this morning. The person who answered the phone couldn't even distinguish the difference between Bell's DSL service and phone service. "Of course they're connected, it makes perfect sense that your phonecall would be disrupted." They didn't even bat an eyelash that Bell's action against Istop customers interfered with their telephone service. Are data-capable phones with cellular service available or affordable on the Telus or Mike networks these days? I'd like to ditch my land line, go for a cheap Roger's cable connection and be able to dial up the office should my cable modem die. Not just because I want to get rid of Bell, but because caller ID and Voicemail is bizzarely expensive, and there's no point in keeping a landline when it is roughly the same price as a cell. I ask about those two networks because they have towers near my house: http://www.arcx.com/sites/ -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 23:02:22 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:02:22 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <42c479f6.104c4b9b.1929.ffff97d1@mx.gmail.com> OK, this is pretty interesting. You have a 20MB drive and you are "upgrading" to a "new" 120MB drive? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jon Thiele Sent: June 29, 2005 4:28 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive I have an old 20MB hard drive running RedHat with 2 partitions. I'd like to move the entire drive and its contents to a new 120MB drive without having to re-install all of my apps, databases, files, etc. Can I use 'dd' for this - even if the drive parameters are not the same??? Any suggestions??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 23:05:18 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:05:18 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42C47AAE.2020204@alteeve.com> mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >>It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all >>the ones I know about appear down know). >> >>So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to >>disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right >>now. > > > Aren't they still on strike too? They promised to connect my line on May 16th, then June 29th and I am still waiting. This was after scheduling my move three weeks in advance. Bell... I can't think of any polite adjectives. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 30 23:52:46 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <20050630185907.GN23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630185907.GN23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I wonder if Bell realizes or even cares how bad this is making them look > to a lot of people. "We're the phone company. We don't care. We don't have to." :-( Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml